From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 01:38:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA29322 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from melb.werple.net.au (melb.werple.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA29292 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by melb.werple.net.au (8.7.6/8.7.3/2) with UUCP id RAA25150; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:52:31 +1000 (EST) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd3.cimlogic.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15900; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:28:38 +1000 (EST) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199609220728.RAA15900@freebsd3.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: libc_r bug To: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:28:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609220613.XAA28775@freefall.freebsd.org> from Jeffrey Hsu at "Sep 21, 96 11:13:07 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Redirected cc to -current ] > > _thread_fd_table_init() just sets up > > the table for a fd. fds 0, 1 and 2 don't have to be valid. > > Since we can't tell whether a given fd might need a call to > _thread_fd_table_init() or not, the correctness before all else > principle would argue for either pre-allocating all the fd entries > or doing it on demand by placing a call to _thread_fd_table_init() > in write() and all the other places where it might be needed. Of > these two, I prefer the second. What about you? I prefer the second too. A call to _thread_fd_table_init() in write() is only needed if the fd is nonblocking (wrt to the thread), because _thread_fd_lock() calls _thread_fd_table_init() anyway. But you can't check if the fd is nonblocking without calling _thread_fd_table_init(), so we might as well just say that the fd is always locked, even if it is nonblocking and take the same performance hit. Try the attached diff (which I haven't compiled 8-). -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 *** /u/freebsd/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c Mon Jan 22 11:23:54 1996 --- /u/freebsd/newsrc/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_write.c Sun Sep 22 17:22:34 1996 *************** *** 45,56 **** int nonblock; int ret; int status; ! if (fd < 0 || fd > _thread_dtablesize || _thread_fd_table[fd] == NULL) { ! _thread_seterrno(_thread_run, EBADF); ! ret = -1; ! } else if ((nonblock = _thread_fd_table[fd]->flags & O_NONBLOCK) == 0 && (ret = _thread_fd_lock(fd, FD_RDWR, NULL, __FILE__, __LINE__)) != 0) { /* Cannot lock file descriptor. */ } else { while ((ret = _thread_sys_write(fd, buf, nbytes)) < 0) { if (nonblock == 0 && (errno == EWOULDBLOCK || errno == EAGAIN)) { _thread_kern_sig_block(&status); --- 45,54 ---- int nonblock; int ret; int status; ! if (ret = _thread_fd_lock(fd, FD_RDWR, NULL, __FILE__, __LINE__)) != 0) { /* Cannot lock file descriptor. */ } else { + nonblock = _thread_fd_table[fd]->flags & O_NONBLOCK; while ((ret = _thread_sys_write(fd, buf, nbytes)) < 0) { if (nonblock == 0 && (errno == EWOULDBLOCK || errno == EAGAIN)) { _thread_kern_sig_block(&status); *************** *** 65,73 **** break; } } ! if (nonblock == 0) { ! _thread_fd_unlock(fd, FD_RDWR); ! } } return (ret); } --- 63,69 ---- break; } } ! _thread_fd_unlock(fd, FD_RDWR); } return (ret); } From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 02:50:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA05289 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 02:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magnet.geophysik.tu-freiberg.de ([139.20.128.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25565 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 02:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by magnet.geophysik.tu-freiberg.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id LAA06670 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:31:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from holm@localhost) by unicorn.pppnet.tu-freiberg.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA03401 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:26:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Holm Tiffe Message-Id: <199609220926.LAA03401@unicorn.pppnet.tu-freiberg.de> Subject: sendmail- Bug ? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:26:01 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: holm@geophysik.tu-freiberg.de X-PGP-Fingerprint: 86 EC A5 63 B5 28 78 13 8B FC E9 09 04 6E 86 FC X-Phone: +49-3731-74233 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, since sendmail has benn upgraded to 8.7.6 I have the following printout in my mails from Charly Root (/etc/daily) in my elm : N 4 Sep 22 Charlie ?Ó¿ïüÒ¿ï?Ó (49) unicorn daily run output . After removing the ampersand in root's gecos field in the passwd file the Output seem's to be OK ( from Charlie whitout Root). The finger program behave correctly in booth versions. Is this a bug in the new sendmail release ? Holm Ps: sorry for my poor english -- ******************************************************************************* * Holm Tiffe holm@geophysik.tu-freiberg.de * * Strasse der Einheit 26 * * 09599 Freiberg Germany Microsoft is not the Answer - * * Tel.: 49 3731 74233 Microsoft is the Question, * * UUCP: 49 3731 74200 unicorn!holm and the Answer is no ! * ******************************************************************************* From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 03:04:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA12483 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 03:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [193.91.212.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12448 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 03:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail-queue invoked from smtpd); 22 Sep 1996 10:04:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (HELO verdi.nethelp.no) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Sep 1996 10:04:48 +0000 (GMT) To: holm@geophysik.tu-freiberg.de, holm@unicorn.pppnet.tu-freiberg.de Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sendmail- Bug ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:26:01 +0200 (MET DST)" References: <199609220926.LAA03401@unicorn.pppnet.tu-freiberg.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:04:47 +0200 Message-ID: <11800.843386687@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > since sendmail has benn upgraded to 8.7.6 I have the following > printout in my mails from Charly Root (/etc/daily) in my elm : > > N 4 Sep 22 Charlie ?Ó¿ïüÒ¿ï?Ó (49) unicorn daily run output > > After removing the ampersand in root's gecos field in the passwd file > the Output seem's to be OK ( from Charlie whitout Root). ... > Is this a bug in the new sendmail release ? Yes. Known bug. See the following patch from Eric Allman. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: eric@Sendmail.ORG (Eric Allman) Subject: patch to sendmail 8.7.6 Date: 21 Sep 1996 19:01:28 -0700 Message-ID: <5226lo$70k@knecht.Oxford.Reference.COM> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The following patches fix small bugs in 8.7.6. I do not plan to do an 8.7.7 release, since 8.8 is due out in just a few days. If these are causing you problems, apply the following fixes; otherwise, hold on until 8.8 is out. The "&" character in Gecos fields doesn't expand the login name into the full name properly. The easy workaround is to just use the full name (without "&") in the Gecos field of all passwd entries. If this is not possible, apply the following patch: *** util.c.orig Thu Sep 19 08:08:17 1996 - --- util.c Sun Sep 22 03:26:17 1996 *************** *** 418,424 **** { if (*p == '&') { ! snprintf(bp, SPACELEFT(buf, bp), "%s", login); *bp = toupper(*bp); bp += strlen(bp); } - --- 418,424 ---- { if (*p == '&') { ! snprintf(bp, buflen - (bp - buf), "%s", login); *bp = toupper(*bp); bp += strlen(bp); } On some architectures, a one-byte buffer overflow in get_column (used by text map lookups) can cause core dumps. (In many cases this is not a problem because the compiler rounds the three byte buffer up to four bytes to get long alignment.) If this is a problem, apply the following patch: *** util.c.orig Sat Sep 21 18:49:45 1996 - --- util.c Sat Sep 21 18:49:59 1996 *************** *** 1865,1871 **** char *p; char *begin, *end; int i; ! char delimbuf[3]; if (delim == '\0') strcpy(delimbuf, "\n\t "); - --- 1865,1871 ---- char *p; char *begin, *end; int i; ! char delimbuf[4]; if (delim == '\0') strcpy(delimbuf, "\n\t "); If you want to try 8.8.Beta, it is available on FTP.Sendmail.ORG in /ucb/src/sendmail/.beta. Change into that directory and follow the directions in the welcome message to get the latest Beta version. eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMkScTiPkYtS/e6QhAQHPZQQAnl1nQKtXLNF4lP3jh9GkkHoX7EQJQe2N C0iTjTHgjrng16PPF7KchXcfkp3ci6L1lv6CynUd7HbCwmqO+0LEPLUAmDE11gcL NfzmRCNLOIJ9PgrtFN+KEcayJslvY/enHPZm1/HOt3m73MaPHPp8Jt6NXwg/Cs/3 hk3Pbnr2jl8= =LDRe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ====================================================================== Eric Allman InReference, Inc. Chief Technical Officer 155A Moffett Park Drive, Suite 210 eric@InReference.COM Sunnyvale, CA 94089 http://WWW.InReference.COM/~eric +1/408/541-7641 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 05:45:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA10686 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb21.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA10590; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 05:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA03997; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:27:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609220927.LAA03997@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position To: ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:27:07 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609220547.JAA00328@nagual.ru> from "[______ ______]" at "Sep 22, 96 09:47:10 am" From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to [______ ______] who wrote: > After login, mousepointer appearse at 0,0 > Since mouse not actively used, it can stay much time there, maybe forever. > The disadvantage of it is that recognition of the character > at 0,0 becomes much harder, so I forced to move mouse off without > mouse-related reason or look from closer position. Why do you turn on the mouse if you dont use it ?? > I have suggestion to change default mousepointer location to 80,25 > instead (lastX-charWidth,lastY-charHeight in pixels). In _very_ rare > cases any character appearse there. If the default should be changed I'd suggest putting in the middle of the screen... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 08:13:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03059 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 08:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [193.125.152.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03017; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 08:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA28246 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:08:56 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 22 Sep 96 19:08:56 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA00398; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:08:08 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199609221508.TAA00398@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-Reply-To: <199609220927.LAA03997@DeepCore.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at "Sep 22, 96 11:27:07 am" To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:08:08 +0400 (MSD) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > In reply to [______ ______] who wrote: > > After login, mousepointer appearse at 0,0 > > Since mouse not actively used, it can stay much time there, maybe forever. > > The disadvantage of it is that recognition of the character > > at 0,0 becomes much harder, so I forced to move mouse off without > > mouse-related reason or look from closer position. > > Why do you turn on the mouse if you dont use it ?? I think, you understand :-) I use it rare on some screens for cut & paste and never use it on another screens. If you interested in my personal approx statistics: for 4 hours of work I use mouse 5 times on 3 screens (from 12). Since it is hard to guess moment when mouse will be needed, and it can happens even inside program, I turn mouse on in my .login. > > > I have suggestion to change default mousepointer location to 80,25 > > instead (lastX-charWidth,lastY-charHeight in pixels). In _very_ rare > > cases any character appearse there. > > If the default should be changed I'd suggest putting in the middle > of the screen... Middlescreen is not good, because cover some character too. I choose last position because it is almost impossible (without special IC/DC trick) put the characer there due to line wrapping, so it stays empty most of time. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 09:22:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06418 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06386 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from packet.eng.umd.edu (packet.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.184]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04742 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by packet.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA31912 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:22:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: packet.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:22:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@packet.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: Make world Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Getting lots of these messages. They don't seem to make a whole lot of sense ... ===> usr.bin/fpr Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr as object directory instead of canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr ===> usr.bin/from Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/from as object directory instead of canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/from ===> usr.bin/fsplit Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fsplit as object directory instead of canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fsplit ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 09:30:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09557 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09497; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609221629.JAA09497@freefall.freebsd.org> To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:08:08 +0400." <199609221508.TAA00398@nagual.ru> Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:29:56 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] >> In reply to [______ ______] who wrote: >> > After login, mousepointer appearse at 0,0 >> > Since mouse not actively used, it can stay much time there, maybe forever. >> > The disadvantage of it is that recognition of the character >> > at 0,0 becomes much harder, so I forced to move mouse off without >> > mouse-related reason or look from closer position. >> >> Why do you turn on the mouse if you dont use it ?? > >I think, you understand :-) >I use it rare on some screens for cut & paste and never use >it on another screens. If you interested in my personal approx >statistics: for 4 hours of work I use mouse 5 times on 3 screens >(from 12). Since it is hard to guess moment when mouse will be >needed, and it can happens even inside program, I turn mouse >on in my .login. How about having the pointer go away after a 30 second timeout? As soon as you move the mouse, it comes back? Word uses this trick so that the mouse is never in your way while you type. >Middlescreen is not good, because cover some character too. >I choose last position because it is almost impossible (without >special IC/DC trick) put the characer there due to line wrapping, >so it stays empty most of time. It would probably be the best place if you added the timeout. That way, it could be enabled by default and new users would know that there is a mouse pointer to be used. BTW, using the mouse in syscons still shakes my screen every once in a while (#9GXE L12). >-- >Andrey A. Chernov > >http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 09:57:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20129 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lear35.cytex.com (lear35.cytex.com [38.252.97.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20097 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mbartley@localhost) by lear35.cytex.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA16180 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:57:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bartley Message-Id: <199609221657.JAA16180@lear35.cytex.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? In-Reply-To: <199609220646.AAA00334@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Sep 22, 96 00:46:38 am" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > P.S. Has anybody else noticed that a) The new stuff about 11% longer > to compile (10hr vs 9hr for me) and b) there have been no new CTMs in I did a "make world cleandir obj" overnight last night on CTM level src-cur 2229. It took 5.5 hours; AIRC in the past it took more like 5 hours. If true, that's a 10% difference. I'm running a Pentium 100 with 16 megabytes of memory and a 1.2 gigabyte EIDE hard disk (4500 rpm, sorry I don't remember seek time) with a on-motherboard EIDE controller. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 11:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26451 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26434 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19384 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:01:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609221801.OAA19384@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: libgnumalloc To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please take the rm /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 out of make world. Its removal cripples XFree386 Beta 3.12G every time a make world is done. Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 12:56:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12405 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12187 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17147 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609221956.NAA17147@rover.village.org> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:56:17 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've found a difference in the way the install command's syntax and functionality on {Net,Open}BSD (hereafter "other BSDs") vs FreeBSD. In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement the other BSDs' -d semantics in FreeBSD, and change -d -> -D for debugging. I kinda like the other BSDs functionality, so I thought I'd see if there was interest in importing into FreeBSD. I'll be happy to make the needed patches to install, but I'd like to try the waters with this idea before I go off and do a lot of work and to get feedback on the wisdom of this change. Yes, including the man page :-). My take: Changing a debugging flag should have minimal impact on the install base of FreeBSD. Merging of the syntax (if not the actual code) of the install programs is a good thing for the BSD community in general, and the FreeBSD speficially. It should be done, and should cause few, if any, problems. Comments? Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 13:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA28063 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28039 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from packet.eng.umd.edu (packet.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.184]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08497; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by packet.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA31914; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: packet.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:30:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@packet.eng.umd.edu To: Warner Losh cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609221956.NAA17147@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > I've found a difference in the way the install command's syntax and > functionality on {Net,Open}BSD (hereafter "other BSDs") vs FreeBSD. > > In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In > FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement > the other BSDs' -d semantics in FreeBSD, and change -d -> -D for > debugging. I kinda like the other BSDs functionality, so I thought > I'd see if there was interest in importing into FreeBSD. > > I'll be happy to make the needed patches to install, but I'd like to > try the waters with this idea before I go off and do a lot of work and > to get feedback on the wisdom of this change. Yes, including the man > page :-). > > My take: Changing a debugging flag should have minimal impact on the > install base of FreeBSD. Merging of the syntax (if not the actual > code) of the install programs is a good thing for the BSD community in > general, and the FreeBSD speficially. It should be done, and should > cause few, if any, problems. I just checked, it's like that on Suns (at least the local sparcserver had it under the bsd compatibility package). Seems like a fair bet to me, and I don't think it would break anything in ports. > > Comments? > > Warner > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 13:35:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00326 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00287 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17535; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609222035.OAA17535@rover.village.org> To: Chuck Robey Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:30:05 EDT." References: Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:35:15 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Chuck Robey writes: : I don't think it would break anything in ports. I have gone ahead and implemented this, and will commit it if there appears to be support for this. If any would like to review my patches, ping me and I'll be happy to send them along. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 13:46:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04509 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04472 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12584; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:46:15 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:46:16 -0500 To: Warner Losh From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >My take: Changing a debugging flag should have minimal impact on the >install base of FreeBSD. Merging of the syntax (if not the actual >code) of the install programs is a good thing for the BSD community in >general, and the FreeBSD speficially. It should be done, and should >cause few, if any, problems. > >Comments? I, personally, agree. I think that it is a serious mistake for the community to have multiple "local" definitions of a "standard". The same philosophy SHOULD apply to all of the common commands. They need to behave in the same way on each platform. This is particularly true of anything used to do system builds because cross-platform compatability is important in porting to new systems. Just look at the mess that we have with PC interface cards :-) From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 15:41:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24847 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24809 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca16-27.ix.netcom.com [199.35.223.155]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA13982; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:40:48 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA01324; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609222240.PAA01324@baloon.mimi.com> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: current@FreeBSD.org, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za In-reply-to: <199609211317.XAA18586@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:17:31 +1000) Subject: Re: Some shared library problems From: asami@FreeBSD.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * The installation of libfakegnumalloc is currently broken (it deletes all * versions of libgnumalloc.so from ${SHLIBDIR}). I think it is supposed * to work by leaving old versions alone and putting a guaranteed-newer * version in the compat directory for future ld commands to find. I don't think that was the intention. The removal of all gnumalloc shared libraries from /usr/lib was to prevent ported software automatically detecting and using a shared libgnumalloc. (The ld commands are not supposed to find it, as it is empty anyway.) * It * would be cleaner but too hard to mv old versions of libgnumalloc.so * to the compar directory. It may be hard, but this is what we should do if we want to keep older versions. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 18:30:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04368 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04340 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.6/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id BAA11478; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:30:18 GMT Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:30:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock Reply-To: Michael Hancock To: Warner Losh cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Xopen Go Solo CD-ROM (was Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on , , FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For the commercial world XOpen published a book "Go Solo" and it comes with their Unix Spec on CDROM. A GUU/FABIO spec would be cool, but the making of it is not what most people would consider fun. Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 20:24:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02562 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02537 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA06821 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Mon, 23 Sep 1996 06:14:07 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 23 Sep 96 06:14:07 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id BAA00349; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:56:38 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199609222156.BAA00349@nagual.ru> Subject: Re: Make world In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at "Sep 22, 96 12:22:02 pm" To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:56:37 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Getting lots of these messages. They don't seem to make a whole lot of > sense ... > > ===> usr.bin/fpr > Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr as object directory instead of > canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr They means that obj directories exists in each case and you not turn it on directly in make.conf -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 21:46:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA10102 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09997; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA04610; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:39:05 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:39:05 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609230439.OAA04610@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: Some shared library problems Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * The installation of libfakegnumalloc is currently broken (it deletes all > * versions of libgnumalloc.so from ${SHLIBDIR}). I think it is supposed > * to work by leaving old versions alone and putting a guaranteed-newer > * version in the compat directory for future ld commands to find. > >I don't think that was the intention. The removal of all gnumalloc >shared libraries from /usr/lib was to prevent ported software >automatically detecting and using a shared libgnumalloc. (The ld >commands are not supposed to find it, as it is empty anyway.) Perhaps there is no problem if you actually run -current. In -current there is a /usr/lib/compat directory containing libfakegnumalloc.so.2.0 -> libgnumalloc.so.2.0. Applications linked to old libgnumalloc's should find this and no other versions of libgnumalloc, and use the better version of malloc() in libc. I think there is no longer any need for the symlink. Just name the compatibility library libgnumalloc.so.2.0. For the same reason, there is no need to check for libgnumalloc in the the pkg database (not that checking there helps after you've blown away the package binaries). libresolv/Makefile shows how to implement this. Another problem: both Makefiles fail to blow away the old shared libraries if the normal ${SHLIBDIR} is different from ${LIBDIR}. They uselessly blow away the not so old shared libraries in the special compat ${SHLIBDIR} instead. I think there is no longer any need (if there ever was) for the dummy function fake_a_gnumalloc(). There is now a non-dummy function cfree(). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 21:54:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA13187 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13160 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA04972; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:51:02 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:51:02 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609230451.OAA04972@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: Make world Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> ===> usr.bin/fpr >> Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr as object directory instead of >> canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr > >They means that obj directories exists in each case and you not turn it >on directly in make.conf Even when obj directory that is used has the same name as the canonical one? :-) I haven't seen this. It can't happen if the names are really identical. I see warnings like: Warning: Using /usr/src/usr.bin/make/obj as object directory instead of canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/make when I forget to remove the obj pointer or subdirectory. I like this because I only use obj pointers/subdirectories for debugging and want to clean them up when I'm finised. People who use obj links `(make objlink' or option OBJLINKS in /etc/make.conf) probably wouldn't like it. The message is printed on stdout, but should probably be printed on stderr. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 22:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23706 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23575 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA05354; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:06:04 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:06:04 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. >the other BSDs' -d semantics in FreeBSD, and change -d -> -D for >debugging. I kinda like the other BSDs functionality, so I thought >I'd see if there was interest in importing into FreeBSD. I think -d should be renamed -D, and -d for directories should be left unimplemented. There is no way for -d to create the intermediate directories with the correct ownerships and permissions. FreeBSD's `make install' depends on mtree(8) to have created the intermediate directories. There are still a few broken Makefiles that use `mkdir -p'. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sun Sep 22 23:36:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA17942 for current-outgoing; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17823 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA07882; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:10 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:10 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609230632.QAA07882@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, steve@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Make world Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> ===> usr.bin/fpr >>> Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr as object directory instead of >>> canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr >> >>They means that obj directories exists in each case and you not turn it >>on directly in make.conf > >Even when obj directory that is used has the same name as the canonical >one? :-) I haven't seen this. It can't happen if the names are really >identical. I see this now. Operator precedeence in .elif seems to have been broken by yesterday's changes. Try the following Makefile. The .elif test succeeds. Bruce --- ONE=one foo: .if !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} @echo "This shouldn't be printed" .elif !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} @echo "This shouldn't be printed either" .endif --- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 00:18:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15612 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15578; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA24029; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199609230716.JAA24029@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:09 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ache@nagual.ru, sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609221629.JAA09497@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Sep 22, 96 09:29:56 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Justin T. Gibbs who wrote: > > >I use it rare on some screens for cut & paste and never use > >it on another screens. If you interested in my personal approx > >statistics: for 4 hours of work I use mouse 5 times on 3 screens > >(from 12). Since it is hard to guess moment when mouse will be > >needed, and it can happens even inside program, I turn mouse > >on in my .login. > > How about having the pointer go away after a 30 second timeout? As > soon as you move the mouse, it comes back? Word uses this trick > so that the mouse is never in your way while you type. Splendid idea, thats the way I want to do it ! > >Middlescreen is not good, because cover some character too. > >I choose last position because it is almost impossible (without > >special IC/DC trick) put the characer there due to line wrapping, > >so it stays empty most of time. > > It would probably be the best place if you added the timeout. That > way, it could be enabled by default and new users would know that there > is a mouse pointer to be used. Exactly.. > BTW, using the mouse in syscons still shakes my screen every once in > a while (#9GXE L12). Hmm, there might be hope for this one, as I just found an old VLbus MB, so I can use my old and trusty #9GXE/VL... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 00:45:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA02151 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02123; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609230745.AAA02123@freefall.freebsd.org> To: sos@FreeBSD.org cc: ache@nagual.ru, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:09 +0200." <199609230716.JAA24029@ra.dkuug.dk> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:45:06 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> How about having the pointer go away after a 30 second timeout? As >> soon as you move the mouse, it comes back? Word uses this trick >> so that the mouse is never in your way while you type. > >Splendid idea, thats the way I want to do it ! Come to think of it, you may even want to hide it on the keystroke after it was last used. I'm sure that a little experimentation will provide a good default behavior and perhaps some additional moused options to tweak the behavior. >Hmm, there might be hope for this one, as I just found an old VLbus >MB, so I can use my old and trusty #9GXE/VL... Mine is a VL card as well. >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > So much code to hack -- so little time. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 00:55:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08960 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08807; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA24495; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:25:33 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199609230755.RAA24495@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:25:32 +0930 (CST) Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, ache@nagual.ru, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609230716.JAA24029@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Sep 23, 96 09:16:09 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.org stands accused of saying: > > > > How about having the pointer go away after a 30 second timeout? As > > soon as you move the mouse, it comes back? Word uses this trick > > so that the mouse is never in your way while you type. > > Splendid idea, thats the way I want to do it ! Actually, the preferred form of this trick is to make it go away when a character is written and more than a second or so has elapsed since the mouse was last moved. So as soon as you start typing, it disappears, but when you move it it comes back, and if you're snarfing something while something somewhere else is changing the pointer doesn't keep vanishing on you. > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 04:05:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04020 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA03993 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca12-08.ix.netcom.com [199.182.128.136]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA26666; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:04:17 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id EAA03080; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 04:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609231104.EAA03080@baloon.mimi.com> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za In-reply-to: <199609230439.OAA04610@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:39:05 +1000) Subject: Re: Some shared library problems From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * >I don't think that was the intention. The removal of all gnumalloc * >shared libraries from /usr/lib was to prevent ported software * >automatically detecting and using a shared libgnumalloc. (The ld * >commands are not supposed to find it, as it is empty anyway.) * * Perhaps there is no problem if you actually run -current. In -current * there is a /usr/lib/compat directory containing libfakegnumalloc.so.2.0 * -> libgnumalloc.so.2.0. Applications linked to old libgnumalloc's * should find this and no other versions of libgnumalloc, and use the * better version of malloc() in libc. I know that, what I mean is if we leave libgnumalloc.so.1.0 in /usr/lib, and someone has a configure script that searches for libgnumalloc, it will find it in /usr/lib and use it. Also, a program with a (bogus) Makefile that contains -lgnumalloc will compile. IMO a shared library that is not intended for use by ld shouldn't be in /usr/lib (unless it's an older version of another library that's also in /usr/lib, in which case it's harmless). That's the reason why we have /usr/lib/compat and ldconfig. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 05:57:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA02209 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA02157 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.25]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17932; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10834; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:56:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: thurston.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:56:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: Bruce Evans cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In > >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement > > Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. > I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory > stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. I just tested on an older Sun 4c, it's not a syntax error there, it's the way the /usr/ucb/install works. > > >the other BSDs' -d semantics in FreeBSD, and change -d -> -D for > >debugging. I kinda like the other BSDs functionality, so I thought > >I'd see if there was interest in importing into FreeBSD. > > I think -d should be renamed -D, and -d for directories should be > left unimplemented. There is no way for -d to create the intermediate > directories with the correct ownerships and permissions. FreeBSD's > `make install' depends on mtree(8) to have created the intermediate > directories. There are still a few broken Makefiles that use > `mkdir -p'. > > Bruce > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 07:29:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA17524 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [193.91.212.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17436 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail-queue invoked from smtpd); 23 Sep 1996 14:28:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (HELO verdi.nethelp.no) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Sep 1996 14:28:43 +0000 (GMT) To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, current@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:56:40 -0400 (EDT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:28:43 +0200 Message-ID: <352.843488923@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In > > >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement > > > > Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. > > I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory > > stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. > > I just tested on an older Sun 4c, it's not a syntax error there, it's the > way the /usr/ucb/install works. Indeed. And that's also how it's documented in SunOS 4.1.x: -d Create a directory. Missing parent direc- tories are created as required as in mkdir -p. If the directory already exists, the owner, group and mode will be set to the values given on the command line. Btw, in SunOS 4.1.x it's /usr/bin/install, not /usr/ucb. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 08:12:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02358 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walkabout.asstdc.com.au (walkabout.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.73]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02257 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by walkabout.asstdc.com.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id BAA00512 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:11:42 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199609231511.BAA00512@walkabout.asstdc.com.au> Subject: 3C589b + ep driver To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:11:42 +1000 (EST) X-Comment: Phone 0419-240-180, International +61-419-240-180 X-Comment: finger imb@asstdc.com.au for PGP public key X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm still fighting with my laptop (100MHz TP560) and the ep driver. Intermittently, the "link OK" light on my hub goes out and ifconfig reports the driver hung in the OACTIVE state. I've tried several things .. reinstating the dynamic TX_START_THRESH stuff and reordering the ep_intr function. Since ep_intr is executed under splbio(), I found that these hangs were much less frequent when I removed the disabling of interrupts (with SET_INTR_MASK) but still there :-( The threshold stuff appears to have little or no bearing on the problem. At first, I though that the practice of re-reading status information (see the "continue" on RX_COMPLETE or RX_EARLY) was the problem but coding around this (reading only once per interrupt and moving the TX_STATUS stuff onto a separate variable) didn't help either. I can easily provoke a hung condition by ftp-ing (inbound) a sizable file (e.g. a tarred and gzipped source tree) to my laptop. I cannot reliably generate it with outbound traffic. Since it seems that others are now having similar experiences with similarly structured drivers (e.g. if_vx), I wonder if someone could shed some light on what is going on (and how to fix it :-)) ? My D-Link just causes a panic in the ed driver so this is the nearest I have to "working" .. michael From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 08:49:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15844 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15823 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5DFb-0008tYC; Mon, 23 Sep 96 08:48 PDT Received: from localhost by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.7.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id KAA20741; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:44:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:44:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: Bruce Evans cc: ache@nagual.ru, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Make world In-Reply-To: <199609231509.BAA23185@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: # >> I see this now. Operator precedeence in .elif seems to have been broken # >> by yesterday's changes. # >> # >> Try the following Makefile. The .elif test succeeds. # >> # >> Bruce # >> # >> --- # >> ONE=one # >> # >> foo: # >> .if !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} # >> @echo "This shouldn't be printed" # >> .elif !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} # >> @echo "This shouldn't be printed either" # >> .endif # >> --- # > # >I don't see it, but I will check into it further. Maybe I am # >missing something. # # It works with rev.1.9 of parse.c but fails with rev.1.10. It # looks like it now sometimes drops the last character of lines. # The above makefile works right if one space is added after # the second ${ONE} (and the tabs are unpasted). # # Bruce # I retract what I said earlier. I just compiled and tested on freefall with revs 1.9 and 1.10 and you're exactly right. I will take a look at this today at lunch (in about an hour). My apologies, consider it fixed. :) Steve From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 09:20:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27359 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27332; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5DkY-0008ueC; Mon, 23 Sep 96 09:20 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02696; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609231609.KAA02696@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: michael butler Cc: current@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3C589b + ep driver In-Reply-To: <199609231511.BAA00512@walkabout.asstdc.com.au> References: <199609231511.BAA00512@walkabout.asstdc.com.au> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Added -mobile ] > I'm still fighting with my laptop (100MHz TP560) and the ep driver. > Intermittently, the "link OK" light on my hub goes out and ifconfig reports > the driver hung in the OACTIVE state. FWIW, I'm now starting to see these as well with the if_zp driver under -current, and I *NEVER* saw them before in the almost 2 years I ran 2.1 and 2.1.5. However, looking at the code it appears that the other than someone running it through indent which screwed up a lot of the formatting, there aren't that many changes to affect the low-level functionality of the driver. So far I'm seeing the addtion of IPX support, staticizing functions and data and removing dead code, the removal of TRAILERS, BPF changes, and other misc. formatting stuff. But, nothing jumps out at me which should affect the driver itself, so I'm suspecting something in the other code, which also makes no sense. > Since it seems that others are now having similar experiences with similarly > structured drivers (e.g. if_vx), I wonder if someone could shed some light > on what is going on (and how to fix it :-)) ? This is what also implies that it's not something necessarily specific to the drivers, but something that changes which might require all of the drivers to be modified. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 09:30:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01450 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.fred.net [205.252.219.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01372; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com (mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11]) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA28167; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:29:58 -0400 Received: from localhost by mumps.pfcs.com with SMTP id AA00876 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:29:36 -0400 To: sos@FreeBSD.org Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs), ache@nagual.ru, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:09 +0200." <199609230716.JAA24029@ra.dkuug.dk> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:29:34 -0300 Message-Id: <874.843496174@mumps.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't followed much of this thread; I hope I'm on the point (no pun intended). What about running the "unclutter" program? I've been considering sending it in to the ports colection, but it seems so small... H From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 09:42:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA05652 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05543; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id CAA04350 Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:41:20 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199609231641.CAA04350@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: 3C589b + ep driver To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:41:19 +1000 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609231609.KAA02696@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 23, 96 10:09:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > FWIW, I'm now starting to see these as well with the if_zp driver under > -current, and I *NEVER* saw them before in the almost 2 years I ran 2.1 > and 2.1.5. I tried the zp driver from yesterday's -current and couldn't get it to work for me (which is odd because I installed using it in July :-() > This is what also implies that it's not something necessarily specific > to the drivers, but something that changes which might require all of > the drivers to be modified. I'm tempted to think (but without proof since I don't have sufficient hardware documentation - any, in fact) that the present drivers are timing sensitive (increasing CPU load causes more frequent failures) and that some other changes in the kernel have provoked a latent weakness. Honestly, I can't see anything wrong with it the way it is so "poking" bits of code to see what has any impact at all is the only way I can approach it. Tonight, I looked at Guido's "newif_vx" stuff on freefall which, amongst other things, breaks out the TX_STATUS stuff into a separate function and has a similar interrupt service restructure to the one I tried. I might try the "BROKEN_AVAIL" strategy to see if that affects the problem, michael From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 09:57:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA11330 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11298; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5EK8-0008tYC; Mon, 23 Sep 96 09:57 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02885; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609231646.KAA02885@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: michael butler Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3C589b + ep driver In-Reply-To: <199609231641.CAA04350@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> References: <199609231609.KAA02696@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609231641.CAA04350@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > FWIW, I'm now starting to see these as well with the if_zp driver under > > -current, and I *NEVER* saw them before in the almost 2 years I ran 2.1 > > and 2.1.5. > > I tried the zp driver from yesterday's -current and couldn't get it to work > for me (which is odd because I installed using it in July :-() > > > This is what also implies that it's not something necessarily specific > > to the drivers, but something that changes which might require all of > > the drivers to be modified. > > I'm tempted to think (but without proof since I don't have sufficient > hardware documentation - any, in fact) that the present drivers are timing > sensitive (increasing CPU load causes more frequent failures) and that some > other changes in the kernel have provoked a latent weakness. That's possible, but the CPU load wasn't an issue with me. The network load was an issue, but in the 2.1 days I was running the box as an NFS client where I mounted /usr/src & /usr/obj, and re-built the world on my laptop. If that's not a lot of network load on an ethernet card, I don't know what is. :) Recently it's been locking up under remote CVS heavy loads (though not as heavy as before) which can be fixed by a simple 'ifconfig zp0 down; ifconfig zp0 up'. It hasn't went down since then under similar loads, but I was updating the sources from a *very* old version of -current to the latest bits which caused alot more traffic to be sent out. The only thing I can think of that would cause the lockups are missed interrupts, so Bruce would probably be the expert in this. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 10:13:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17171 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17074 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jez@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA10123 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:12:50 +0100 (BST) From: Jeremy Prior Message-Id: <199609231712.SAA10123@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD's Current Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:12:49 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk All, I've always missed the lack of ncheck(8) in FreeBSD - The 4.4BSD manual page for it is wrong - its functionality is not obsoleted by fsck(8)! Specifically, I miss ncheck's `-s' option (find / -perm ... is no substitute). My nostalgia turned into desperation when find started falling over with an out-of-memory error in our news-spool partition during the nightly /etc/security run. (Sorry, I don't have the error message to hand - I can let people have it after tonight's run if they're interested :-) I was about to write an ncheck clone (using fsck as a starting point), and had even got to the point of soliciting sample output for other vendor's versions, when I discovered that one already exists! OpenBSD has had ncheck (actually ncheck_ffs) since mid August. So, I fetched, built, and installed their ncheck (no changes needed other than the name :-), and it works fine! I'm currently in the process of rewriting my /etc/security to use it. Anyway, I'm now wondering whether I should with it. My options are: 1. keep it to myself and shut up :-) 2. submit it as-is, and let someone else decide what to do with it; (I could also submit chkdsk(8) - aka fsck_msdos at the same time...) or 3. go the whole way and submit it as part of a general `cleanup', where each of the fs-dependent programs (fsck, ncheck, ...) are called by an fs-independent parent (I'd use mount(8) as the template). What do other people think? Do people want this? Am I treading on anyone else's toes? by doing this :-) Opinions? jez -- Jeremy Prior Netcraft, Rockfield House, Granville Road, Bath, BA1 9BQ, England Tel: +44-1225-447500 Fax: +44-1225-448600 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 10:35:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28722 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28698 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5EuS-0008y4C; Mon, 23 Sep 96 10:35 PDT Received: from localhost by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.7.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id MAA11395; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:24:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:24:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: Bruce Evans cc: ache@nagual.ru, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Make world In-Reply-To: <199609231509.BAA23185@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: # >> I see this now. Operator precedeence in .elif seems to have been broken # >> by yesterday's changes. # >> # >> Try the following Makefile. The .elif test succeeds. # >> # >> Bruce # >> # >> --- # >> ONE=one # >> # >> foo: # >> .if !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} # >> @echo "This shouldn't be printed" # >> .elif !defined(NOTDEF) && ${ONE} != ${ONE} # >> @echo "This shouldn't be printed either" # >> .endif # >> --- # > # >I don't see it, but I will check into it further. Maybe I am # >missing something. # # It works with rev.1.9 of parse.c but fails with rev.1.10. It # looks like it now sometimes drops the last character of lines. # The above makefile works right if one space is added after # the second ${ONE} (and the tabs are unpasted). # # Bruce # Fixed in revsion 1.11 of parse.c. Sorry about the mishap. It seems some of the parse routines choke when given lines with a trailing '\n'. Steve From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 10:55:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10181 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10156 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00653; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:54:50 -0700 (PDT) To: Jeremy Prior cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD's Current Mailing List) Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:12:49 BST." <199609231712.SAA10123@server.netcraft.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:54:50 -0700 Message-ID: <651.843501290@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 3. go the whole way and submit it as part of a general `cleanup', where > each of the fs-dependent programs (fsck, ncheck, ...) are called by > an fs-independent parent (I'd use mount(8) as the template). This idea, I like! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 11:12:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA19847 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19799 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24422 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:12:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199609231812.OAA24422@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Sendmail 8.6.7 ? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:12:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is sendmail 8.7.6 going to be imported into current anytime soon? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 11:13:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA20227 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20211 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24440 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199609231813.OAA24440@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Sendmail 8.7.6 nevermind To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see 8.8 is due anyday :) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 12:11:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA22131 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21940 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id UAA25439 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:45:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00375 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:02:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:02:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: current@freebsd.org Subject: curious .. sometimes my machine simply reboots with latest kernel Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here my kernel config file and a dmesg session for reference. Does somebody else have this problem ? The screen gets black and the machine simple reboots. After 8 hours of uptime. Mainboard: ASUS P55TP4XE, 2 x 16 MB 60ns RAM (normal SIMMS). Any thoughts ? Andreas /// machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident BISDN maxusers 64 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=8" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about options TELES_HAS_MEMCPYB # bisdn 0.97 options SYSVSHM,SYSVSEM,SYSVMSG # System V shared memory #options "IBCS2" #options COMPAT_LINUX options SHOW_BUSYBUFS #options "I586_FAST_BCOPY" #options AHC_SCBPAGING_ENABLE #options AHC_TAGENABLE options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY #options DDB #options KTRACE #options PERFMON options MFS #Memory File System config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console options "MAXCONS=4" device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr # Joystick #device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log #pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter #pseudo-device snp 3 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. #pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) #pseudo-device speaker # SB = SoundBlaster; PAS = ProAudioSpectrum; GUS = Gravis UltraSound # Controls all sound devices #controller snd0 # SoundBlaster DSP driver - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS(emulating SB) #device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr # SoundBlaster 16 DSP driver - for SB16 - requires sb0 device #device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 # SoundBlaster 16 MIDI - for SB16 - requires sb0 device #device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 # Yamaha OPL-2/OPL-3 FM - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS #device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # ISDN - parts of an example config file for bisdn # ------------------------------------------------ # # last edit-date: [Sun May 26 10:35:22 1996] # #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- options IPI_VJ # Van Jacobsen header compression support #options "IPI_DIPA=3" # send ip accounting packets every 3 seconds # Teles S0/16.3 ###################################################### IRQ 9 ## controller tel0 at isa? port 0xd80 net irq 9 vector telintr pseudo-device disdn pseudo-device isdn pseudo-device ipi 4 pseudo-device itel 2 pseudo-device ispy 1 FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Mon Sep 23 11:14:44 MET DST 1996 root@klemm.gtn.com:/usr/sys.bisdn/compile/BISDN Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock... i586 clock: 99468492 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193121 Hz CPU: Pentium (99.47-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 31428608 (30692K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 2 on pci0:7:1 vga0 rev 0 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 ahc0 rev 3 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 ahc0: aic7870 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ahc0:0:0): "IBM DORS-32160 WA0A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 2063MB (4226725 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 6703 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 126 sectors/track (ahc0:1:0): "IBM DORS-32160 WA0A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 2063MB (4226725 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 6703 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 126 sectors/track (ahc0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3601TA 0725" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ahc0:6:0): CD-ROM cd present [320495 x 2048 byte records] Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <4 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 maddr 0xcc000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:25:fd:2d, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in tel0 at 0xd80 irq 9 on isa tel0: card type Teles S0/16.3 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, unlimited logging andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 12:26:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02614 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02594; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609231926.MAA02594@freefall.freebsd.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jeremy Prior , freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD's Current Mailing List) Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:54:50 PDT." <651.843501290@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:26:04 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> 3. go the whole way and submit it as part of a general `cleanup', where >> each of the fs-dependent programs (fsck, ncheck, ...) are called by >> an fs-independent parent (I'd use mount(8) as the template). > >This idea, I like! :) > > Jordan Don't re-invent the wheel. NetBSD has just finished doing this with fsck. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 12:28:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03633 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03609 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01266; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:27:59 -0700 (PDT) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Jeremy Prior , freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD's Current Mailing List) Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:26:04 PDT." <199609231926.MAA02594@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1264.843506879@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't re-invent the wheel. NetBSD has just finished doing this > with fsck. Even better. Now, who will do the honors? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 13:01:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA22273 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22227 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04457 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:00:34 +0200 (MET DST) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/stdlib malloc.3 malloc.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:26:45 PDT." <199609231926.MAA02944@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:00:34 +0200 Message-ID: <4455.843508834@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >phk 96/09/23 12:26:43 > > Modified: lib/libc/stdlib malloc.3 malloc.c > Log: > phkmalloc/3 > Various neat features added. More documentation in the manpage. > check the manpage. A couple of words about this version of phkmalloc. I would actually like to make the 'A' option default, so that all problems are reason for a core-dump. Although some programs handle a malloc error, a lot doesn't. I think it makes a lot more sense to core-dump a process that gets an malloc error these days, than let it do it itself later on. If you can, please enable it and tell me if anything unexpected breaks. Second, if you have a program that you think will be interesting for me to include in my simulation suite, do this: ktrace -t u -i gzip -9 ktrace.out and upload the ktrace.out.gz file to freefall under a good name and email me the location. The file will contain a trace of all calls made to malloc/realloc/free so I can use it to run through my simulations here. There is nothing in the file about what you used the memory for, only the size and the addresses. (use kdump to verify that claim) I can provide you some feedback on the memory use patterns of the process if you want me to. The cache have been reduced a great deal, after some careful studies. Nobody really had any benefit from the huge cache, so it's cut from 100 to 16 pages now and you can tweak it with the '<' and '>' options. On any machine which is paging out, using the 'H' option should avoid the situation where a page containing nothing that anybody care about is paged out, instead the page will be reclaimed, and if phkmalloc needs it again, it will get a freshly washed page instead of a page-in of the stale page. I'm very interested in comments about the impact of this option, if it's generally beneficial I'll make it the default. Please report comparable wall-clock durations for your benchmarks. (it has to be wall-clock because we have to measure the impact in time waiting for disk). I have cleaned up and documented the various messages that phkmalloc may splatter on your stderr in the manpage. Any mandoc wizards may want to kill me for they way I've done it, but I will gladly accept patches for it. I have also added a "char * malloc_options;" so that you can set specific options in a program, in case you happen to know what you want. For instance any daemon should probably set at least 'H'. Finally I have added a check for recursively entering this mess. This can happen if you're in there already and a signal is posted for you. Well, sorry, that is not supported, and now it will refuse to do so. If this is a big problem anywhere (it shouldn't be) I could add another option that will block signals while in here, but that will have a serious impact on performance. I also fixed the thread locking, which was screwed up because of the internal recursive calls to the public functions. Now all internal calls go to the internal functions. You will have to do a tiny bit of surgery to make this compile other places, as the utrace() isn't available in older FreeBSD's or other OS's. Some of the processes I have studied could use a rewrite in their memory handling, which is in some cases rather archaic, but I refuse to tune phkmalloc to degenerate cases, even though they're called cpp and ld. If you feel like tweaking that kind of stuff I have some tools you might want. I intend to put them in src/tools later when they have been polished a bit, but if you can't wait for that, send me email. As far as I can see, there is little that can be tweaked in general any more, the next step is a kernel maintained "green/yellow/red" memory loading stated delivered by signal to the processes, and quite frankly, I doubt it would ever pay back for its complexity. So, just like I said last time: This is it :-) Thanks to John Dyson for making madvise do what was needed for option 'H'. Input most welcome! Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 13:01:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA22393 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phantasma.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (kmitch@phantasma.bevc.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.200.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22375 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kmitch@localhost) by phantasma.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04705 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:01:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Mitchell Message-Id: <199609232001.QAA04705@phantasma.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> Subject: Mathematica/Linux Emulation To: current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running -current (08/28) with the Linux Emulation (LKM) for Mathematica. Everytime I start Mathematica, I get: /lib/ld.so: cache '/etc/ld.so.cache' has wrong version The version in /compat/linux/etc/ld.so.cache is: ld.so-1.7.0 I used the linux-lib port from to install the /compat/linux tree. Anybody have any clue what's wrong. Everything "appears" to work. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 13:22:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00362 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00333 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5HW1-0008w1C; Mon, 23 Sep 96 13:22 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03783; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609232010.OAA03783@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.6.7 ? In-Reply-To: <199609231812.OAA24422@crh.cl.msu.edu> References: <199609231812.OAA24422@crh.cl.msu.edu> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is sendmail 8.7.6 going to be imported into current anytime soon? I know you already responded to this, but a response seemed appropriate anyway. 8.7.6 and two follow-on patches Eric sent out (one by Andrey) was imported last week. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 14:47:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA20397 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20364 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02833; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:45:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609232145.OAA02833@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:45:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: jez@netcraft.co.uk, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <651.843501290@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 23, 96 10:54:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3. go the whole way and submit it as part of a general `cleanup', where > > each of the fs-dependent programs (fsck, ncheck, ...) are called by > > an fs-independent parent (I'd use mount(8) as the template). > > This idea, I like! :) You said it was "too SVR4ish" when I suggested it two years ago. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 14:53:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24091 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-7-192-103.iafrica.com [196.7.192.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23796 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01258; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:52:12 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199609232152.XAA01258@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck To: jez@netcraft.co.uk (Jeremy Prior) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:52:11 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609231712.SAA10123@server.netcraft.co.uk> from Jeremy Prior at "Sep 23, 96 06:12:49 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeremy Prior wrote: > All, > I've always missed the lack of ncheck(8) in FreeBSD - The 4.4BSD > manual page for it is wrong - its functionality is not obsoleted by > fsck(8)! Specifically, I miss ncheck's `-s' option (find / -perm ... > is no substitute). > > My nostalgia turned into desperation when find started falling over > with an out-of-memory error in our news-spool partition during the > nightly /etc/security run. (Sorry, I don't have the error message to > hand - I can let people have it after tonight's run if they're > interested :-) > > I was about to write an ncheck clone (using fsck as a starting > point), and had even got to the point of soliciting sample output for > other vendor's versions, when I discovered that one already exists! > OpenBSD has had ncheck (actually ncheck_ffs) since mid August. > > So, I fetched, built, and installed their ncheck (no changes needed > other than the name :-), and it works fine! I'm currently in the process > of rewriting my /etc/security to use it. > > Anyway, I'm now wondering whether I should with it. My options are: > > 1. keep it to myself and shut up :-) > > 2. submit it as-is, and let someone else decide what to do with it; > (I could also submit chkdsk(8) - aka fsck_msdos at the same time...) > > or > > 3. go the whole way and submit it as part of a general `cleanup', where > each of the fs-dependent programs (fsck, ncheck, ...) are called by > an fs-independent parent (I'd use mount(8) as the template). > > What do other people think? Do people want this? Am I treading on > anyone else's toes? by doing this :-) Opinions? No opinion regarding most of this, but I'd be very wary of bringing across chkdsk/fsck_msdos. Although the FFS is far more complex, a fsck for the V*FAT fs actually has a more difficult task in some ways. (In an FFS context, a great many possible scenarios just "can't happen".) In the course of developing the vfatfs, I've had the opportunity to test all the recent versions of chkdsk, scandisk, fsck_* I could find. They _all_ have serious problems. Even MS scandisk for DOS 6.22 has major bugs, though it generally does a better job than other stuff. I've been working on a fsck_vfatfs myself, intermittently. I don't mind dropping this if something demonstrably better comes along, but -- for now -- I wouldn't let it, or anything else I've seen on UNIX near my DOS partitions. No point in inviting trouble unnecessarily.... -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 14:59:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA27423 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27386 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@cat-food.Melmac.org [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29292; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.6) id OAA28572; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:59:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199609232159.OAA28572@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.6.7 ? To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609231812.OAA24422@crh.cl.msu.edu> from Charles Henrich at "Sep 23, 96 02:12:13 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is sendmail 8.7.6 going to be imported into current anytime soon? > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich > It is already as far I know. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 16:41:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05161 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05124 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13290; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609232340.QAA13290@austin.polstra.com> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: possible vm kernel death In-reply-to: <199609180930.TAA05519@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:40:45 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > > So I'd wait a bit for John to catch the latest bugs, or go install > > a system from before sep 7 (I think)... > > Hmm, not really an option. 8( I don't have the CVS repository here > (I'm stupid, I know 8( ), and I need to get this box to a state better > than it has been (960612-SNAP) before its regular user gets back and > needs it again. I've been mostly away from my mail for a few days, so this probably is too late to do any good, but ... The kind of situation you described is a good application for CVSup's "checkout mode". You could specify any date, and CVSup would update (downdate? :-) your sources back to that point in time. It would go pretty fast, because only the diffs would be transferred. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 17:01:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA11981 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11959 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01989; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:00:02 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: jez@netcraft.co.uk, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ncheck and a multi-lingual fsck In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:45:13 PDT." <199609232145.OAA02833@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1987.843523202@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This idea, I like! :) > > You said it was "too SVR4ish" when I suggested it two years ago. 8-(. A man's allowed to evolve his tastes, no? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 17:11:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15500 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15467 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13513; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609240011.RAA13513@austin.polstra.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? In-reply-to: <199609220646.AAA00334@rover.village.org> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:11:05 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > After fighting a little with the upgrade procedure, and finally > taking the time to upgrade the rc files, I was wondering if there > was a painless way to merge in the current /etc/sysconfig file one > might have with the newer ones that defines more things. "cvs update" works pretty well for this sort of thing. First, figure out which version of /etc/sysconfig you started with, by doing "ident /etc/sysconfig". For concreteness, let's say it was version 1.40. Get into an empty working directory, and check out that version: mkdir work cd work cvs co -d . -r 1.40 src/etc/sysconfig Now copy your real (locally-modified) file on top of that: cp /etc/sysconfig . Merge in the changes between your starting version and the current one: cvs update -A CVS will perform the merge, and will warn you if there are any conflicts. You can use "cvs diff" to see your local modifications, as applied to the current version of the file. Edit the file and get rid of any conflicts. When you are satisfied with the result, copy the file back into /etc. For a single file, "diff3 -m" may be an easier way to do this. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 17:17:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA18427 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18396 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA17956 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:17:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609240017.UAA17956@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk '-d' to create directories is a Sys5R4 option for /usr/ucb/install. The standard Sys5R4 /usr/bin/install does not accept '-d' as an option. In either case it's probably no a good idea to use '-d' for debugging, since some software may depend on it to create a directory. |On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: | |> >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In |> >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement |> |> Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. |> I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory |> stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. | |I just tested on an older Sun 4c, it's not a syntax error there, it's the |way the /usr/ucb/install works. Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 17:19:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA19294 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19244 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA17972 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:19:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609240019.UAA17972@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk '-d' to create directories is a Sys5R4 option for /usr/ucb/install. The standard Sys5R4 /usr/bin/install does not accept '-d' as an option. In either case it's probably no a good idea to use '-d' for debugging, since some software may depend on it to create a directory. |On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: | |> >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In |> >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement |> |> Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. |> I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory |> stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. | |I just tested on an older Sun 4c, it's not a syntax error there, it's the |way the /usr/ucb/install works. Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? ----- End of forwarded message from rjr ----- Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 18:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA23455 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23425; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baud.eng.umd.edu (baud.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.183]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.Beta.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09851; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by baud.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10281; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:49:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: baud.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:49:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@baud.eng.umd.edu To: Harlan Stenn cc: sos@freebsd.org, "Justin T. Gibbs" , ache@nagual.ru, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-Reply-To: <874.843496174@mumps.pfcs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Harlan Stenn wrote: > I haven't followed much of this thread; I hope I'm on the point (no > pun intended). > > What about running the "unclutter" program? > > I've been considering sending it in to the ports colection, but it > seems so small... I would check /usr/ports/misc first before I did that (Andy Kohout beat you to it!) > > H > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 18:49:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA23550 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23515 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02386; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:47:11 -0700 (PDT) To: John Polstra cc: Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:11:05 PDT." <199609240011.RAA13513@austin.polstra.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:47:10 -0700 Message-ID: <2384.843529630@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "cvs update" works pretty well for this sort of thing. First, > figure out which version of /etc/sysconfig you started with, by > doing "ident /etc/sysconfig". For concreteness, let's say it was > version 1.40. Get into an empty working directory, and check out > that version: Huh! I wonder if putting the CVS repository on a CD would let me use something like this technique for upgrading /etc. ;-) Peter, speaking of which, whatever happened to those patches to allow CVS to use a read-only repository? I think it's the only hold-up for anoncvs as well, right? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 19:20:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA06245 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06201 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA15613; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609240220.TAA15613@austin.polstra.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:47:10 PDT." <2384.843529630@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:21 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > "cvs update" works pretty well for this sort of thing. First, > > ... > > Huh! I wonder if putting the CVS repository on a CD would let > me use something like this technique for upgrading /etc. ;-) Ignoring your winky-face ... Actually, I think that's a good idea. You wouldn't need the whole repository, of course -- just a mini-repository containing the /etc files. If you didn't want to or couldn't use a CVS repository, you could include just the necessary RCS files. It would be easy to put together a shell script to do the merging, using "diff3 -m". John From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 19:32:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA11352 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11323 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA02614; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:29:50 -0700 (PDT) To: John Polstra cc: Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:21 PDT." <199609240220.TAA15613@austin.polstra.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:29:49 -0700 Message-ID: <2612.843532189@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you didn't want to or couldn't use a CVS repository, you could > include just the necessary RCS files. It would be easy to put > together a shell script to do the merging, using "diff3 -m". Hmmmm. I'm going to save this message in my ``ideas for the next and yes, really, gosh, honest, last set of revisions to sysinstall'' file. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 19:42:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14060 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13689 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5NQa-0008yPC; Mon, 23 Sep 96 19:40 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03789; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609240233.UAA03789@rover.village.org> To: John Polstra Subject: Re: Upgrading rc files + CTM outage? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:20:21 PDT." <199609240220.TAA15613@austin.polstra.com> References: <199609240220.TAA15613@austin.polstra.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:33:13 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609240220.TAA15613@austin.polstra.com> John Polstra writes: : If you didn't want to or couldn't use a CVS repository, you could : include just the necessary RCS files. It would be easy to put : together a shell script to do the merging, using "diff3 -m". I was kinda thinking for this particular file of doing the "write a shell command to write a sed script to take the current values and smash them into the new "template"" trick. However, a diff3 might work as well... Warner From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 22:05:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA13102 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13061 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id HAA25683 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:05:16 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199609240505.HAA25683@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: time goes haywire with xntpd To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:05:15 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, After upgrading to the latest kernel on Saturday my xntpd records a ~70ms jump once or twice a day. My previous kernel from 7 Sept did not show the same behaviour. I have loopstat logging on in the ntp.conf file. Here is a piece of it when the time jumped. Normally the value in the fifth column (which is the frequency error in ppm) stays between 18 and 24 depending on the temperature. The fourth column is the offset in seconds between the time of the machine and what it should be. 50348 31219.252 -0.000256 22.4539 9 50348 31475.229 -0.000364 22.4483 9 50348 31666.224 -0.000323 22.4474 9 50348 31922.279 -0.000323 22.4462 9 50348 32434.230 -0.000474 22.4426 10 50348 32946.231 -0.000504 22.4387 10 50348 33314.229 -0.000499 22.4380 10 50348 33826.247 -0.000627 22.4369 10 50348 35695.236 0.001689 22.4369 7 50348 35759.223 -0.001300 22.3575 7 50348 35797.224 -0.001106 22.3475 7 50348 35861.225 -0.001051 22.3315 7 50348 35989.232 -0.001051 22.2994 7 50348 36240.233 0.069571 38.9530 6 50348 36304.231 0.053500 42.2184 6 50348 36432.228 0.031341 46.0442 6 50348 36496.225 0.022247 47.4020 6 50348 36560.223 0.015851 48.3696 6 50348 36624.230 0.010741 49.0251 6 50348 36688.227 0.006013 49.3921 6 50348 36752.229 0.003766 49.6220 6 50348 36816.224 0.001216 49.6963 6 Does anybody have an idea? Do we miss interrupts or something? John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Mon Sep 23 23:15:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13027 for current-outgoing; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from madmax.keyway.net (madmax.keyway.net [204.140.217.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12997 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from successbbs.com (uucp@localhost) by madmax.keyway.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id XAA19027 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:15:18 -0700 Received: by successbbs.com (ViaUUCP! v1.02 ) id 1636; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:19:33 GMT From: freebsd@successbbs.com (Freebsd) Subject: 3Com 3c590 EtherLink III PCI Error! Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:16:26 GMT Organization: Kiwi Computer Services Message-Id: <926212288-960923231626@successbbs.com> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (Freebsd-current) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE, and I am getting the following message upon boot-up: Sep 22 13:51:19 trogon /kernel: vx0 <3Com 3c590 EtherLink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 15 on pci0:17 Sep 22 13:51:19 trogon /kernel: utp[*UTP*] address %D Sep 22 13:51:19 trogon /kernel: Warning! Defective early revision adapter! Now I have been getting that error ever since I installed FreeBSD. When telnetting in, it goes just fine. Local hosts Ping to me around .7ms, so everything is normal there. However, when trying to telnet out, there are long pauses and delays. I can ping hosts just fine, no delays. It seems the more data beingn transfered at once, the slower it takes. When telnetting to a host with a small gettytab it goes just fine, then after I log on and do an ls, it takes forever. My question, is there anyway to fix this problem, without getting beta 2.2-CURRENT? Please help! From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 01:29:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA18615 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA18584 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA02088 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:29:53 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA05067 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:33 +0200 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:33 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199609240836.KAA05067@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: libcompat.so.2.0 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the course of trying the new vic.2.8 I found that I was missing libcompat.so.2.0. So I went into /u/BLUES/src/lib/libcompat and made. But to my surprise only .a libs were built. Is something wrong with my setup? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 03:09:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA22439 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA22407 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v5UQG-000Qk0C; Tue, 24 Sep 96 12:09 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA00268; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:54:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199609240854.KAA00268@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:54:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609240019.UAA17972@sparks.empath.on.ca> from "Robert J. Rutter" at Sep 23, 96 08:19:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert J. Rutter writes: > > > '-d' to create directories is a Sys5R4 option for /usr/ucb/install. > The standard Sys5R4 /usr/bin/install does not accept '-d' as an option. > In either case it's probably no a good idea to use '-d' for debugging, > since some software may depend on it to create a directory. System V install is quite different from the others. There's not much compatibility. On the other hand, a number of installs, though not the classic BSD version, support -d for creating directories. Bruce said (though not in the quote below) that -d is a Bad Thing because it can end up creating directories with wrong permissions. Sure, if the permissions are important, they should be done by hand, but frequently they're not, or you know that they will be set correctly on installation. I don't think we should try to anticipate every way users can shoot themselves in the foot. Greg >| On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: >| >|> >In the other BSDs, install -d means to create the directory. In >|> >FreeBSD it means to turn on debugging. I propose that we implement >|> >|> Only in -current. -d is a syntax error in standard BSD and 2.1.5R. >|> I used -d for debugging before I knew about its use for directory >|> stuff. I copied it from the -d for debugging in make. >| >| I just tested on an older Sun 4c, it's not a syntax error there, it's the >| way the /usr/ucb/install works. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 03:16:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA25231 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA25206 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04899; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:15:50 -0700 (PDT) To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: libcompat.so.2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:33 +0200." <199609240836.KAA05067@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:15:50 -0700 Message-ID: <4897.843560150@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No, someone turned off shared versions of this long ago (when in doubt, it helps to actually try looking at the Makefile :-), probably to "fix" the regerror() clash (and it's not even all that certain which version is the "right" one for libcompat). Jordan > > In the course of trying the new vic.2.8 I found that I was missing > libcompat.so.2.0. > > So I went into /u/BLUES/src/lib/libcompat and made. But to my surprise > only .a libs were built. Is something wrong with my setup? > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 04:11:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA14006 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (bsdcur@shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA13245 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdcur@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA01043 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:08:08 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199609241108.OAA01043@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: 3com etherlink xl To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:08:07 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk just wondering, is there a driver for 3c900 and 3c905, meaning does the older 3c590 and 3c595 driver work for those? though i am planning in using smc 10/100 i'd like to know about xl too mickey -- mika ruohotie mika@aeon.net From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 05:55:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA29995 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 05:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA29826; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 05:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id WAA05772 Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:53:42 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199609241253.WAA05772@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: 3C589b + ep driver To: nate@mt.sri.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:53:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609231641.CAA04350@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Sep 24, 96 02:41:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: > Tonight, I looked at Guido's "newif_vx" stuff on freefall which, amongst > other things, breaks out the TX_STATUS stuff into a separate function and > has a similar interrupt service restructure to the one I tried. I might try > the "BROKEN_AVAIL" strategy to see if that affects the problem, Adding checks for sufficient space in the card's TX FIFO on the assumption that the "space available" status doesn't generate an appropriate interrupt has no impact whatsoever on the problem :-( michael From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 06:20:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA12729 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12696 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA10397 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:17:35 +0100 Received: from tees.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:18:56 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) id OAA02354; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:17:53 +0100 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/stdlib malloc.3 malloc.c References: <4455.843508834@critter.tfs.com> From: Paul Richards Date: 24 Sep 1996 14:17:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Poul-Henning Kamp's message of Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:00:34 +0200 Message-ID: <57iv94rr0f.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > I would actually like to make the 'A' option default, so that all > problems are reason for a core-dump. Although some programs handle > a malloc error, a lot doesn't. I think it makes a lot more sense > to core-dump a process that gets an malloc error these days, than > let it do it itself later on. If you can, please enable it and > tell me if anything unexpected breaks. What sort of problems are you talking about? Any decent programmer checks malloc return values and you shouldn't take control away from the programmer by making the library function core dump. For something like Apache, which maintains its own memory pool, core dumping the server because of a malloc error will take the site down when in fact it could probably have carried on quite happily even if that malloc call had failed. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 06:55:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA29373 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdev.blaze.net.au (sdev.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA28433 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (davidn@localhost) by sdev.blaze.net.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA12393 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:51:43 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:51:40 +0000 () From: David Nugent To: FreeBSD-current Mailing List Subject: eBones problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a cosmetic problem with kdb_edit. While running it and following the FreeBSD handbook, I get: -- cut -- davidn@sdev[/etc/kerberosIV]# kdb_edit Opening database... Enter Kerberos master key: Current Kerberos master key version is 1. Master key entered. BEWARE! Previous or default values are in [brackets] , enter return to leave the same, or new value. Principal name: passwd Instance: sdev , Create [y] ? y New Password: Principal: passwd, Instance: sdev, kdc_key_ver: 1 Verifying password - New Password: -- cut -- As against the FreeBSD handbook, which had: -- cut -- grunt# kdb_edit Opening database... Enter Kerberos master key: Current Kerberos master key version is 1. Master key entered. BEWARE! Previous or default values are in [brackets] , enter return to leave the same, or new value. Principal name: passwd Instance: grunt , Create [y] ? y Principal: passwd, Instance: grunt, kdc_key_ver: 1 New Password: <---- enter RANDOM here Verifying password -- cut -- (ie. the Principal: passwd, ... part appears after the "New Password: prompt). I point it out in case it indicates some underlying problem which may have recently popped up. I'm running FreeBSD-current as of 22-Sep-96. Hope this helps, David David Nugent, Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 07:46:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA17043 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17016 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5YkH-0008yAC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 07:45 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA05913; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:41:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:06:04 +1000." <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:41:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: : >the other BSDs' -d semantics in FreeBSD, and change -d -> -D for : >debugging. I kinda like the other BSDs functionality, so I thought : >I'd see if there was interest in importing into FreeBSD. : : I think -d should be renamed -D, and -d for directories should be : left unimplemented. There is no way for -d to create the intermediate : directories with the correct ownerships and permissions. FreeBSD's : `make install' depends on mtree(8) to have created the intermediate : directories. There are still a few broken Makefiles that use : `mkdir -p'. I have implemented -D for debugging, since that was the only thing that had wide agreement. I've updated the usage string, and the man page as well. I'd still like to merge in the -d code from NetBSD/OpenBSD. SunOS also sets the precident. While it is true the permissions aren't exactly right, other software than FreeBSD's 'make install' uses this to make sure directories are present. This other software does happen to be OpenBSD's make files, and it would be nice to be able to cross build my mips stuff on FreeBSD w/o needing to have a special install. I've seen it in a few other makefiles floating around on the net. I'm not advocating that we use it for the 'make install' phase of the build process, just that it be available. With that clarification, do people generally like or dislike the proposal? Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 08:23:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24926 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24891 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5ZKU-0008z0C; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:23 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06843; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Warner Losh Cc: Bruce Evans , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> References: <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd still like to merge in the -d code from NetBSD/OpenBSD. ... > I've seen it in a few other makefiles floating around on the net. I'm > not advocating that we use it for the 'make install' phase of the > build process, just that it be available. > > With that clarification, do people generally like or dislike the > proposal? Doesn't GNU-install support '-d'? If so, the functionality is already available. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 08:29:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA26553 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26522 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5ZOx-0008z2C; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:27 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06776; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241505.JAA06776@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: libcompat.so.2.0 In-Reply-To: <4897.843560150@time.cdrom.com> References: <199609240836.KAA05067@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <4897.843560150@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, someone turned off shared versions of this long ago (when in > doubt, it helps to actually try looking at the Makefile :-), probably > to "fix" the regerror() clash (and it's not even all that certain > which version is the "right" one for libcompat). Actually, we turned it off since 'not every library should be shared', which the Linux folks are finding out. Stuff that is fairly non-standard shouldn't be compiled shared simply because it shouldn't be used. Compiling it shared implies that programs *should* use it (because it doesn't use as many resources), and we want to discourage folks from using libcompat. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 08:34:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA27748 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27717 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5ZV4-0008ywC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:34 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA06226; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: Bruce Evans , current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:12:11 MDT." <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:30:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : Doesn't GNU-install support '-d'? If so, the functionality is already : available. Are you saying "gnu-install does it, just use that" or "gnu-install does it, so there is more precident?" If the former, then I'd just build NetBSD's install, since it supports it and the FreeBSD -C extention. If the latter, then I'll go ahead and commit the -d dir chnages :-). Why is there so much resistance to 10 lines of code already integrated and tested in NetBSD and OpenBSD? I'd really like to see a gradual merging of the code bases where appropriate. This sounds to me like a no brainer: No one is using -d on FreeBSD (now that -d -> -D) and other BSDs (NetBSD, OpenBSD and SunOS) have it as well as it being in SysV's /usr/ucb/install. So there is precidents for inclusion. Sorry to sound a little frustrated, but the grabbing the code from NetBSD, putting it into FreeBSD's install and testing it took less time than I've spent writing email on this topic. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 08:48:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00849 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00831 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5Zii-0008zQC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 08:48 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06948; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , Bruce Evans , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> References: <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why is there so much resistance to 10 lines of code already integrated > and tested in NetBSD and OpenBSD? Why is gets() considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it encourages bad programming practices when a better solution already exists. Why is 'install -d' considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it encourage bad installation practices when a better installation method exists. Since the FreeBSD source tree has no need for it (we have a good solution), and the functionality is available for folks that need it in our 'provided' sources (GNU-install), then there is no need to 'pollute' our tree with software that encourages bad practice. > Sorry to sound a little frustrated, but the grabbing the code from > NetBSD, putting it into FreeBSD's install and testing it took less > time than I've spent writing email on this topic. And the code itself is a kludge that should have been implemented using the existing tools. That's the 'Unix Way'. Build on the existing tools instead of making every tool do the same thing as another tool, until all tools essentially do the same thing. KISS! Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:11:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08354 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08329 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5a5L-0008zzC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 09:11 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06394; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:37:19 MDT." <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:07:14 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : Since the FreeBSD source tree has no need for it (we have a good : solution), and the functionality is available for folks that need it in : our 'provided' sources (GNU-install), then there is no need to 'pollute' : our tree with software that encourages bad practice. Generally you are correct, but specifically you aren't. Sure there are better ways of doing this. However, other widely installed systems have this stuff in place. Other software is using this, good bad or ugly. Other software is using gets, and it is still around. I find the "it could be abused" arguement weak at best. rm -rf can be abused, but it has its uses and its place. Taken to an extreme, I'm sure there are many programs whose existance is questionable at best. Do we really need chat, talk and write? Cases can be made for each of them, but isn't there a lot of overlap? Or look at gotos in 'c'. Why not eliminate them because they are generally (but not always) bad practice? While install -d does overlap and encourage a slightly bad practice, there are times that I don't care if the permissions/owners are slightly wrong. Maybe I'm blind. I can't find gnu install anywhere in the system or in the ports. I can't find gnu's textutils, diff utils or anything named *inst* in the ports tree. Neither is there anything in the /usr/contrib tree to make me think gnu install is there. Therefore, it appears that this functionality isn't part of the system. While it does encourage a mildly bad programming habit, NetBSD does include it. It is a needless difference between the two systems and should be corrected, imho. It accomplishes the greater goal of converging the divergent BSD branches a tiny bit, which is also a generally good thing, imho. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:15:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09757 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-1.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09651; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA07476; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:34:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:34:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609241334.PAA07476@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: joerg@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: ctm & disc full From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Joerg, This addressed to you (cc'd current), as you wrote CTM man page... Maybe we could add something to `man ctm' regarding if a disc gets full .... I ran (cd /pub/freebsd/work/current/src ; ctm -v \ /pub/freebsd/ref/current/ctm/ctm/src-cur/deltas/src-cur.22[0-9]*.gz ) & saw this: + > FN usr.sbin/adduser/adduser.perl + All done ok + Working on + > DM contrib/gcc + ..... + > FM contrib/gcc/obstack.h + + /usr2: write failed, file system is full + contrib/gcc/obstack.h: No space left on device + /pub/freebsd/ref/current/ctm/ctm/src-cur/deltas/src-cur.2215.gz Fatal error: Assert failed. + Exit(96) I then ran it again & it started to apply, not noticing that the .ctm_status represented a state the tree didnt really have. + Delta number 2215 is already applied; ignoring. + Working on + > FS .ctm_status + > FN contrib/tcl/README No great problem if applying manually, But could be problematic for those who have procmail applying ctm patches in background mode, if the disc fills up. In an ideal world .ctm_status could record both start of application & end of succesful application, but that'd need a patch, & some discussion, meantime, could you document the hazard ? Julian --- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:21:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA12590 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.eu.org (valerian.glou.eu.org [193.56.58.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12545 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.eu.org (8.7.3/8.7.1/951117) with UUCP id SAA10884; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:20:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.glou.eu.org (8.7.6/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id VAA03737; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:10:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199609231910.VAA03737@tetard.glou.eu.org> Subject: Re: Make world To: ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:10:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: current@freebsd.org (current) In-Reply-To: <199609222156.BAA00349@nagual.ru> from "[______ ______]" at "Sep 23, 96 01:56:37 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [______ ______] écrit / writes: > > ===> usr.bin/fpr > > Warning: Using /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr as object directory instead of > > canonical /usr/obj/usr/src/usr.bin/fpr > > They means that obj directories exists in each case and you not turn it > on directly in make.conf Not for me. Got those messages too, and I had OBJLINKS=yes in /etc/make.conf. -- Phil -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / regnauld@eu.org / +55.4N +11.3E @ Sol3 / +45 31241690 ]- -[ "To kårve or nøt to kårve, that is the qvestion..." -- My sister ]- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:25:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA14262 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14237 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5aIY-00090CC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 09:25 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07100; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:14:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> References: <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: > : Since the FreeBSD source tree has no need for it (we have a good > : solution), and the functionality is available for folks that need it in > : our 'provided' sources (GNU-install), then there is no need to 'pollute' > : our tree with software that encourages bad practice. > > Generally you are correct, but specifically you aren't. Sure there > are better ways of doing this. However, other widely installed > systems have this stuff in place. And they can use gnu-install from ports. > Other software is using this, good > bad or ugly. Other software is using gets, and it is still around. I > find the "it could be abused" arguement weak at best. rm -rf can be > abused, but it has its uses and its place. Other software use bison, so we provided bison 'AS A PORT'. Other software required GNU-make, so we provide it 'AS A PORT'. The functionality exists for 'external' programs to easily get the functionality they need via 'externally' added programs. > Taken to an extreme, I'm sure there are many programs whose existance > is questionable at best. Do we really need chat, talk and write? They are programs supplied by CSRG. It was decided long ago that FreeBSD would attempt to provide all of the sources CSRG provided (although with the removal of some of the games that changed recently). You can always *make* a case for addition/removal of programs. But, you haven't convinced me that FreeBSD needs to add potentially bogus functionality that is doesn't use when said functionality already exists in an easy to get manner. > Maybe I'm blind. I can't find gnu install anywhere in the system or > in the ports. It used to be in ports, but if it's not ask Chuck Robey about it. He builds ports like a maniac. :) > While it does encourage a mildly bad programming habit, NetBSD does > include it. Because for a *very* long time they never used mtree. > It is a needless difference between the two systems and > should be corrected, imho. IMHO, mistakes made by one person shouldn't be repeated. "If all your friends jumped off a bridge....." Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:36:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18546 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18500 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5aT0-00090CC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 09:36 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA06509; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:28:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241628.KAA06509@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:14:20 MDT." <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:28:20 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> Nate Williams writes: : And they can use gnu-install from ports. No they can't. gnu install isn't in the ports tree. : > Other software is using this, good : > bad or ugly. Other software is using gets, and it is still around. I : > find the "it could be abused" arguement weak at best. rm -rf can be : > abused, but it has its uses and its place. : : Other software use bison, so we provided bison 'AS A PORT'. Other : software required GNU-make, so we provide it 'AS A PORT'. The : functionality exists for 'external' programs to easily get the : functionality they need via 'externally' added programs. Bison is in /usr/src/contrib now. It is needed to build the tree. However, your point is valid that generally the external programs are generally ports. This doesn't argue for install -d, just that you need to pick better examples :-). : > Maybe I'm blind. I can't find gnu install anywhere in the system or : > in the ports. : : It used to be in ports, but if it's not ask Chuck Robey about it. He : builds ports like a maniac. :) Heck, generally most of the gnu tools are just a ./configure ; make on FreeBSD. For a port like that, it is about 10 lines in a Makefile :-). Like I said before, if all I wanted was the functionality, I'd just build the NetBSD install program, install it and be done with it. : > While it does encourage a mildly bad programming habit, NetBSD does : > include it. : : Because for a *very* long time they never used mtree. They still don't use mtree in the build process, as far as I can tell. At least the pica NetBSD port and the arc OpenBSD port don't have an mtree file for them at all.... I understand Nate's view. Any other comments from others? Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:44:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA22062 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22027 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09023 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:44:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-CURRENT-L Subject: Kernel panic in exit1() in /sys/kern/kern_exit.c Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've seen this a couple times on a 2-2960801-SNAP system. It is a shell server, typically with 50+ concurrent logins. The first time, 'uptime' caused the kernel panic. This time, 'vi' caused it. Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x429e64 fault code = supervisor write, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0105a7d stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbfff3c frame pointer = 0x10:0xefbfff48 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 5529 (vi) interrupt mask = panic: page fault # nm -a /kernel | sort | fgrep f0105 f01054a8 T _exec_new_vmspace f0105520 T _exec_extract_strings f01055e8 t _exec_copyout_strings f010573c t _exec_check_permissions f0105850 F kern_exit.o f0105850 T _exit f01058a4 T _exit1 <==== f0105ba4 T _owait f0105bdc T _wait4 f0105bf8 t _wait1 f0105eb0 T _proc_reparent f0105f00 F kern_fork.o f0105f00 T _fork f0105f14 T _vfork f0105f28 T _rfork f0105f4c t _fork1 FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP #0: Sun Aug 25 17:00:05 EDT 1996 taob@feh.io.org:/u/src/sys/compile/SHELL Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock... i586 clock: 132618543 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193065 Hz CPU: Pentium (132.62-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52b Stepping=11 Features=0x1bf real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 130273280 (127220K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7:0 pci0:7:1: Intel Corporation, device=0x1230, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 11 on pci0:10 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) sd0(ncr0:0:0): with 3835 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 139 sectors/track de0 rev 18 int a irq 14 on pci0:11 de0: SMC 9332 DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de0: address 00:00:c0:84:46:c8 de0: enabling 10baseT port vga0 rev 227 int a irq ?? on pci0:12 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: pcvt: doreset() - got KEYB_R_RESEND response ... [one time only msg] pcvt: doreset() - Caution - no PC keyboard detected! vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: unknown trident, 80 col, color, 8 scr, unknown kbd, [R3.20-b24] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident SHELL maxusers 128 options INET options FFS options NFS options MSDOSFS options PROCFS options QUOTA options "COMPAT_43" options "SCSI_DELAY=5" options SCSIDEBUG options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY options UCONSOLE options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options PROBE_VERBOSE options "NMBCLUSTERS=4096" options "MAXMEM=131072" config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" options "PCVT_META_ESC" device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device de0 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 256 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 pseudo-device snp 4 -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:47:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23507 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23460; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09052; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:47:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Harlan Stenn cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-Reply-To: <874.843496174@mumps.pfcs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Harlan Stenn wrote: > > What about running the "unclutter" program? unclutter is for X. I think we're talking about moused (the syscons text-based mouse pointer). However, the functionality of unclutter should be duplicated, with the additional feature of hiding the pointer immediately upon keyboard input. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 09:51:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25362 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25316 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5ahZ-0008xmC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 09:51 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07229; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241636.KAA07229@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , sef@kithrup.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609241628.KAA06509@rover.village.org> References: <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> <199609241628.KAA06509@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : Other software use bison, so we provided bison 'AS A PORT'. Other > : software required GNU-make, so we provide it 'AS A PORT'. The > : functionality exists for 'external' programs to easily get the > : functionality they need via 'externally' added programs. > > Bison is in /usr/src/contrib now. It is needed to build the tree. Actually, unless Cygnus changed their ways they used byacc instead of bison for doing all of the gcc development and testing. In the past the Cygnus folks made sure that the parser worked under byacc fine, and then when the FSF version was released the build tools changed back to using bison again by RMS & friends. I used to know someone who worked for Cygnus, but he quit to get a better job and now he's hacking DOSCMD stuff. However, he might be able to find out if byacc is still the primary 'yaccer' for Cygnus internally. But, that's really irrelevant to the topic at hand. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:01:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29843 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29796; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id KAA07702; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22087; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609241700.KAA22087@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: phk@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: phkmalloc Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:00:47 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't been paying much attention, and just recently saw info on this malloc. What are its features supposed to be? It sounds like it's a debugging aid, or something? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:20:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA06303 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06237; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00624; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:19:03 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: phkmalloc In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:00:47 PDT." <199609241700.KAA22087@MindBender.serv.net> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:19:02 +0200 Message-ID: <622.843585542@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241700.KAA22087@MindBender.serv.net>, "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" writes: > >I haven't been paying much attention, and just recently saw info on >this malloc. What are its features supposed to be? It sounds like >it's a debugging aid, or something? No, it's a high-performance page saving malloc. See /usr/src/share/doc/papers/malloc for details. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:24:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07789 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07698; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00665; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:23:14 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: joerg@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ctm & disc full In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:34:38 +0200." <199609241334.PAA07476@vector.jhs.no_domain> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:23:13 +0200 Message-ID: <663.843585793@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241334.PAA07476@vector.jhs.no_domain>, "Julian H. Stacey" wri tes: >No great problem if applying manually, >But could be problematic for those who have procmail applying ctm patches >in background mode, if the disc fills up. > >In an ideal world .ctm_status could record both start of application >& end of succesful application, but that'd need a patch, & some discussion, >meantime, could you document the hazard ? The solution is to implement this: cd /home rm -rf ncvs.tmp mkdir ncvs.tmp cd ncvs find . -print | cpio -dumpl ../ncvs.tmp cd ../ncvs.tmp if ctm -v ; then cd .. mv ncvs ncvs.old mv ncvs.tmp ncvs rm -rf ncvs.old fi -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:39:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA12749 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12716 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5bS5-0008zJC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 10:39 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07060; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241732.LAA07060@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:36:15 MDT." <199609241636.KAA07229@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199609241636.KAA07229@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> <199609241628.KAA06509@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:32:39 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate and others, would recognizing but refusing to do anything other than issue a warning and succeeding for install -d be acceptible? "install -d is obsolete, use mtree" Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:42:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA13660 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13621 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5bUi-0008zTC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 10:42 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07621; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241733.LAA07621@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Warner Losh Cc: Nate Williams , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609241732.LAA07060@rover.village.org> References: <199609241636.KAA07229@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241614.KAA07100@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609241512.JAA06843@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> <199609241607.KAA06394@rover.village.org> <199609241628.KAA06509@rover.village.org> <199609241732.LAA07060@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Nate and others, > would recognizing but refusing to do anything other than > issue a warning and succeeding for install -d be acceptible? > > "install -d is obsolete, use mtree" Works for me. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 10:55:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17493 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SandBox.CyberCity.dk (aalb26.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.186]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17432; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by SandBox.CyberCity.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA02893; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:53:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609241753.TAA02893@SandBox.CyberCity.dk> Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:51:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Soren Schmidt" Cc: Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com, sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Sep 24, 96 12:47:22 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Brian Tao who wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Harlan Stenn wrote: > > > > What about running the "unclutter" program? > > unclutter is for X. I think we're talking about moused (the > syscons text-based mouse pointer). However, the functionality of > unclutter should be duplicated, with the additional feature of hiding > the pointer immediately upon keyboard input. Its in the next update of syscons.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 12:17:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17797 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17725 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA12518 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:17:11 -0700 Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23288; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:13:57 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:13:58 -0500 To: Warner Losh From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh : > I'm >not advocating that we use it for the 'make install' phase of the >build process, just that it be available. > >With that clarification, do people generally like or dislike the >proposal? I'm all for it. The more that we can have a common specification for these standard tools, the easier it is to work on multiple machines. Besides, it does not hurt to "do what the author intended" when you are porting something into FreeBSD. It is much easier to fix the permissions by mtree'ing things up front rather than having to edit all the makefiles, etc. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 12:19:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA18776 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18768 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA07271; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Warner Losh cc: Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:41:51 MDT." <199609241441.IAA05913@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <7269.843592395@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd still like to merge in the -d code from NetBSD/OpenBSD. SunOS > also sets the precident. While it is true the permissions aren't > exactly right, other software than FreeBSD's 'make install' uses this > to make sure directories are present. This other software does happen I tend to agree. The mtree files represent an "idealized" view of the permission hierarchy and are certainly preferable to all else in creating an installation which has all directories created with the appropriate permissions, but in practice it's not practical to run the mtree files every time you want to install some random port which is going to want to create new directories under /usr/local, /usr/X11R6 or some other central location. I'd say implement -d also, but discourage its use in the ports collection. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 12:20:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA19085 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19040 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5d1Z-0008ywC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 12:20 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA07536; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609241912.NAA07536@rover.village.org> To: Pedro A M Vazquez Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UID < 65535? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:39:15 -0000." <199609241439.OAA23528@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> References: <199609241439.OAA23528@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:12:24 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609241439.OAA23528@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Pedro A M Vazquez writes: : Wasn't it the alex filesystem? It worked with 386bsd0.1 Yes. That rings a bell. Got a URL? No wait, Altavista tells me http://www.ludd.se/~kavli/alex.html, but my network world is busted by sprintlink, so I'm unable to get to that host. :-(. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 12:25:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21155 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21142 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA07282; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:30 -0700 (PDT) To: Warner Losh cc: Nate Williams , Bruce Evans , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:30:16 MDT." <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:30 -0700 Message-ID: <7280.843592590@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry to sound a little frustrated, but the grabbing the code from > NetBSD, putting it into FreeBSD's install and testing it took less > time than I've spent writing email on this topic. That's because you forgot the cardinal rule of FreeBSD development: It's easier to apologise afterwards than ask permision beforehand. :-) [Yes folks, I'm mostly joking, but there have been more than a few instances where we'd have all been better off had a given problem been solved with more coding and less talking, especially when the change being discussed was trivial and truly not worth an extended debate] Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 12:37:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26194 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA26167 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA07315; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:28:28 -0700 (PDT) To: Nate Williams cc: Warner Losh , Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:37:19 MDT." <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:28:27 -0700 Message-ID: <7313.843593307@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why is gets() considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it encourages bad > programming practices when a better solution already exists. > > Why is 'install -d' considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it > encourage bad installation practices when a better installation method > exists. All fine, but also somewhat irrelevant in the fact of several facts: 1. The other *BSDs are using it, and failure to implement it will leave us gratuitously incompatible in Yet Another Way. That sucks. 2. 3rd party applications which have nothing to do with FreeBSD often invoke `install -d ...' to create their target directory, and I have better things to do with my time (as to many others here) than edit Makefiles just to get something to install in this way. 3. GNU install doesn't help with the above since it's found after ours, meaning I've still got to go edit Makefiles, and is generally called "ginstall" to avoid clashes. The flag is not being used for anything else, people don't have to use it if they don't want to, I'd say just compatibilty alone is a sufficient argument - I certainly don't want to be explaining to people why of the three BSDs, FreeBSD chose to be different. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 13:57:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26679 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26616 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA03307 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:57:31 -0700 Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27315; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:54:02 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:54:00 -0500 To: Warner Losh From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: Nate Williams , current@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >While it does encourage a mildly bad programming habit, NetBSD does >include it. It is a needless difference between the two systems and >should be corrected, imho. It accomplishes the greater goal of >converging the divergent BSD branches a tiny bit, which is also a >generally good thing, imho. Here I have to agree with Warner. It is better to support the option and maintain consistancy across implementations. Otherwise, I would argue that we should delete our version in its entirety and use one of the other versions. Besides, there is a very good reason to have the option. When you are bootstrapping, you don't care about "doing it right", but simply "getting it done". The fewer tools required, the better. But then what should we expect from the "there is only one OS, which runs on only one CPU, and is used by only one user" crowd? From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 14:21:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03082 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03056 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.6.8/8.6.9) with UUCP id XAA03580 for current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:20:48 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xp11.frmug.org (8.7.6/8.7.3/xp11-uucp-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA13794 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:27:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609242027.WAA13794@xp11.frmug.org> To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: cc1 got fatal signal 11 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:27:23 +0200 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, With last week end changes (gcc 2.7.2.1), I get internal compiler errors (and sig 11) during make world (~4 times / make world). cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -c /usr/src/games/mille/move.c cc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got fatal signal 11 *** Error code 1 (continuing) An object file is generated, but incomplete. Do you also noticed such a thing? ------ ------ Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr (smtp) charnier@xp11.frmug.org (uucp) ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 14:35:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA06552 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06525 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA07785; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:24:53 -0700 (PDT) To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: Warner Losh , Nate Williams , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:54:00 CDT." Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:24:53 -0700 Message-ID: <7783.843600293@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But then what should we expect from the "there is only one OS, which runs > on only one CPU, and is used by only one user" crowd? Ah, and you were doing so *well* up to that point! Nurse, please take the patient back to his room. I'm afraid it's going to be another few weeks of treatment before we can try the social interaction test again. :-) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 14:48:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09493 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09466 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04763; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:45:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609242145.OAA04763@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:45:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: imp@village.org, nate@mt.sri.com, bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <7280.843592590@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 24, 96 12:16:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Sorry to sound a little frustrated, but the grabbing the code from > > NetBSD, putting it into FreeBSD's install and testing it took less > > time than I've spent writing email on this topic. > > That's because you forgot the cardinal rule of FreeBSD development: > It's easier to apologise afterwards than ask permision beforehand. :-) > > [Yes folks, I'm mostly joking, but there have been more than a few > instances where we'd have all been better off had a given problem > been solved with more coding and less talking, especially when the > change being discussed was trivial and truly not worth an extended > debate] The method works best if you have commit privs, however. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 14:57:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12215 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12174 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA04172 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:56:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609242156.RAA04172@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |In message <199609230506.PAA05354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: |I'd still like to merge in the -d code from NetBSD/OpenBSD. SunOS |also sets the precedent. While it is true the permissions aren't |exactly right, other software than FreeBSD's 'make install' uses this |to make sure directories are present. This other software does happen |to be OpenBSD's make files, and it would be nice to be able to cross |build my mips stuff on FreeBSD w/o needing to have a special install. |I've seen it in a few other makefiles floating around on the net. I'm |not advocating that we use it for the 'make install' phase of the |build process, just that it be available. | |With that clarification, do people generally like or dislike the |proposal? | The SysV/ucb install recognizes the o, g and f flags for setting the destination file's owner, group and permissions. I think that this would be a prerequisite for any '-d' implementation. When compared with the alternate options, it would be a useful feature. eg. install -d -o bin -g bin -f 0755 /usr/local/dir1/dir2 vs. [ -d /usr/local/dir1 ] || mkdir /usr/local/dir1 chown bin /usr/local/dir1 chgrp bin /usr/local/dir1 chmod 0555 /usr/local/dir1 [ -d /usr/local/dir1/dir2 ] || mkdir /usr/local/dir1/dir2 chown bin /usr/local/dir1/dir2 chgrp bin /usr/local/dir1/dir2 chmod 0555 /usr/local/dir1/dir2 ... -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 15:20:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21340 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21246 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02087 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:17:34 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id AAA17446 for current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:17:22 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Beta.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA14529; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:09:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609242209.AAA14529@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:09:48 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: UID < 65535? In-Reply-To: <199609241912.NAA07536@rover.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Sep 24, 1996 13:12:24 -0600 References: <199609241439.OAA23528@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> <199609241912.NAA07536@rover.village.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.44.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2490 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Warner Losh: > No wait, Altavista tells me http://www.ludd.se/~kavli/alex.html, but > my network world is busted by sprintlink, so I'm unable to get to that > host. :-(. Alex use FTP as transport level. The version I have is rather old but here is what I get from the README: ------------------------------------------------------------ Alex is a filesystem that lets users access files in FTP sites around the world just like they access local files. The name Alex comes from the ancient Library of Alexandria. Alexandria gathered information from around the world into one easy to access location. Alex does an analogous thing in a very modern way. For more information on Alex check out: /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/doc or /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/www/alex.html There are a number of commands for Alex users. The user mosaic page is /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/user/man-html/alexuser.html and the actual user commands are in /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/user/bin. For a set of symbolic links to interesting places in Alex, check out: /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/links One comment to all users, if you have "." on your path, please have it at the end of your path so you do not run some really nasty "ls" script someplace. The Alex software is sort of shareware. Anyone can set up a server by following the instructions in /alex/edu/cmu/cs/sp/alex/src/README. To encourage people to set up and maintain servers, I do not ask for a donation from people who do this. However, I could really use some money and it would be nice to get some donations to justify continued hacking and support. If you are an end-user of Alex, please express your satisfaction with a donation: send me what you feel Alex has been worth to you. Thanks, Vincent Cate -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sat Sep 21 00:18:27 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 15:31:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25392 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25368 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.Beta.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06340; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04255; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:31:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:31:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Warner Losh , Bruce Evans , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7269.843592395@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'd still like to merge in the -d code from NetBSD/OpenBSD. SunOS > > also sets the precident. While it is true the permissions aren't > > exactly right, other software than FreeBSD's 'make install' uses this > > to make sure directories are present. This other software does happen > > I tend to agree. The mtree files represent an "idealized" view of the > permission hierarchy and are certainly preferable to all else in > creating an installation which has all directories created with the > appropriate permissions, but in practice it's not practical to run the > mtree files every time you want to install some random port which is > going to want to create new directories under /usr/local, /usr/X11R6 > or some other central location. > > I'd say implement -d also, but discourage its use in the ports collection. I don't think you have to worry about that, bsd.port.mk has it's own set of ${INSTALL_***} macros, and everybody doing ports uses them. > > Jordan > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 16:36:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA12605 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11856 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA04756 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:33:38 -0700 Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05308; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:30:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:30:12 -0500 To: Warner Losh From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Nate and others, > would recognizing but refusing to do anything other than >issue a warning and succeeding for install -d be acceptible? > >"install -d is obsolete, use mtree" No! I want the functionality to be there. See Jordan's comment about editing Makefiles. He is saying the same thing that I am saying. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 17:19:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA27885 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-34.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27545; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA02049; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 02:13:01 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 02:13:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: current@freebsd.org cc: serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org Subject: Licensing Software From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I plan to soon sell a 3rd party commercial binary FreeBSD product. I either need to : - Develop alone, hooks for such things as - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to - sources, just to Link flags - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, but availability of .o files - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique product & system keys. - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? I've read `Sun Expert' in the past, with horror stories of Sun lock managers across nets, & I am not interested in any net strategies, this will be local to the box. I'm not into academic elegant lots-of-effort solutions, I'm after a cheap dirty quick solution, I don't want to spend much time on this, my budgeted work time on this is limited, (& I'd prefer to spend my free on public source, not licence stuff) I have to get something up quickly, & whatever I cobble together, will be simpler to do alone (& keep secret :-), but if other vendors are thinking along similar lines, & interested in some kind of generic mechanism, then I'll try to comply. If anyone has something to give or even sell me, or wants to work with me, please let me know. Thanks. Julian --- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 17:30:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02649 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-35.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02396; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA23185; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:42:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609241942.VAA23185@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: current@freebsd.org cc: Gary Jennejohn Subject: Swapinfo gone ? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:07:42 -0000." <199609202207.WAA01472@peedub.gj.org> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:42:26 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see swapinfo has gone from src/ & in the cvs tree I see stuff only in Attic/ Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de tells me > ... you get the same functionality > with 'pstat -s'. Or top, of course. I guess it's been abandoned ? ( I started to try to look with CVS, but the commands I tried wanted a CVS/ directory, & I'm not too familiar with cvs, I can create something with a CVS subdir by such as `cvs co date` but `cvs co swapinfo` reports cvs checkout: cannot find module `swapinfo' - ignored presumably 'cos there's only an Attic/ left. & tkcvs wont work for me (lib problem: ld.so: Undefined symbol "_Tcl_FindExecutable" called from wish4.1:/usr/local/lib/libtk41.so.1.0 at 0x80957dc so tkcvs can't be a friendly front end for me just now (I'm remaking everything there in tcl & tk) ... so I'm beginning to lose track of the wood for the trees. If swapinfo is dead, could we perhaps create a new one line swapinfo.1 & store it pstat, that refers us to pstat, or have the makefile create a sym link, or provide some kind of life belt ? Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 17:36:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA04380 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04353 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.Beta.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08830; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05167; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:36:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Warner Losh , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >Nate and others, > > would recognizing but refusing to do anything other than > >issue a warning and succeeding for install -d be acceptible? > > > >"install -d is obsolete, use mtree" > > No! I want the functionality to be there. > > See Jordan's comment about editing Makefiles. > He is saying the same thing that I am saying. This time I agree too. Nate's case is based on simplicity only, the rest of the case is based on compatibility. I've disagreed with Richard in the past when he was using the compatibility to move us towards SYSV without a strong reason, but since we ARE bsd, and the -d option IS bsd, the compatibility argument is pretty strong and clear here. I would like the functionality argument added, so that FreeBSD isn't gratuitously incompatible. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 17:42:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06300 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05846 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5i2X-0008zHC; Tue, 24 Sep 96 17:41 PDT Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08968 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609250034.SAA08968@rover.village.org> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: current@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:34:55 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Based on Jordan's and other arguments, and the general support I've gotten, I'll go ahead and just do it. it == commit the rest of the -d stuff, fully functional, no warnings. I understand Nate's and Bruce's objections. They are correct as far as they go,, and I agree better ways to doo the same thing exist and -d shouldn't be encouraged in the system build. However, in this particular case, compatibility with other, closely related systems, overrides the concerns over its potential for abuse. I appreciate all the input that I've received, and will remember it in the future, as it gives me a good feel for the underlying philsophical landscape of the FreeBSD community. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 18:19:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA17186 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA17101; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA05124; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:18:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609250118.SAA05124@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jhs@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:18:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> from "Julian H. Stacey" at Sep 25, 96 02:13:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I either need to : > - Develop alone, hooks for such things as > - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) > - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) > - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions > - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to > - sources, just to Link flags > - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, > but availability of .o files > - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, > so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique > product & system keys. > > - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? > > I've read `Sun Expert' in the past, with horror stories of Sun lock managers > across nets, & I am not interested in any net strategies, > this will be local to the box. > > I'm not into academic elegant lots-of-effort solutions, > I'm after a cheap dirty quick solution, I don't want to spend much > time on this, my budgeted work time on this is limited, > (& I'd prefer to spend my free on public source, not licence stuff) Machine ID: 32 bit value use network tuple use ifconfig interface attempt to subvert via kernel hacking will damage ifconfig User count: Require license tracking use license manager FLEX/LM is suggested Demo version: Use license class use license manager which supports class reporting FLEX/LM is suggested Source changes: Just leave the license manager in all the time No additional changes to sources required Key sourcing: Only the vendor can generate valid keys don't want {distributor|other} making keys Already supported in most LM software Is what I'd suggest. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 19:27:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09341 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09330 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA08493; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:27:23 -0700 (PDT) To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: Warner Losh , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:30:12 CDT." Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <8491.843618443@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Nate and others, > > would recognizing but refusing to do anything other than > >issue a warning and succeeding for install -d be acceptible? > > > >"install -d is obsolete, use mtree" > > No! I want the functionality to be there. > > See Jordan's comment about editing Makefiles. > He is saying the same thing that I am saying. Warner, I would Just Do It were I you. Sheesh, this whole thread only underscores the point I made during an earlier spate of this - the amount of debate surrounding an issue is *inversely proportional* to its actual importance. Just by way of example, I just noticed a recent failure report that NFS now panics the system when used between Solaris and FreeBSD, apparantly due to the incorrect selection of NFS v3 by default. If we see any follow-ups to that at all, I'll expect maybe one, two tops (neither of which may actually fix the problem) whereas I expect this `install -d' thread to go on over at least 5 or 6 more messages, possibly twice that many. An outright panic raises hardly an eyebrow, but an extra FLAG, well, it's a drop-everything-and-race-to-the-email crisis! :-) If that doesn't say something about sociology, I don't know what does. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 19:31:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA10417 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10398; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@cat-food.Melmac.org [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02602; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.6/8.7.6) id TAA01832; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199609250231.TAA01832@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jhs@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> from "Julian H. Stacey" at "Sep 25, 96 02:13:01 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I plan to soon sell a 3rd party commercial binary FreeBSD product. > > I either need to : > - Develop alone, hooks for such things as > - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) > - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) > - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions > - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to > - sources, just to Link flags > - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, > but availability of .o files > - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, > so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique > product & system keys. > > - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? > > I've read `Sun Expert' in the past, with horror stories of Sun lock managers > across nets, & I am not interested in any net strategies, > this will be local to the box. > > I'm not into academic elegant lots-of-effort solutions, > I'm after a cheap dirty quick solution, I don't want to spend much > time on this, my budgeted work time on this is limited, > (& I'd prefer to spend my free on public source, not licence stuff) > > I have to get something up quickly, & whatever I cobble together, > will be simpler to do alone (& keep secret :-), > but if other vendors are thinking along similar lines, & interested in > some kind of generic mechanism, then I'll try to comply. > > If anyone has something to give or even sell me, or wants to work with me, > please let me know. > > Thanks. > > Julian > --- > Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ > Kind of a neat but dirty way is to take the CRC of the system BIOS and the VGA BIOS. Problem with it is only if the card get's exchanged, etc. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 20:20:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA27345 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27248; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA01584; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199609250320.UAA01584@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609250231.TAA01832@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from Ulf Zimmermann at "Sep 24, 96 07:31:47 pm" To: ulf@Lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... [stuff about software node locking, etc...] ... > > Kind of a neat but dirty way is to take the CRC of the system BIOS and the VGA > BIOS. Problem with it is only if the card get's exchanged, etc. And now a days given that all modern motherboards have flash BIOSes a user is _very_ likely to change it causing this method to fail. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 20:53:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA14927 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14882 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id NAA25622; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:45:29 +1000 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:45:29 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609250345.NAA25622@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imp@village.org, rkw@dataplex.net Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org, nate@mt.sri.com Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Besides, there is a very good reason to have the option. ^not >When you are bootstrapping, you don't care about "doing it right", but >simply "getting it done". The fewer tools required, the better. Only mkdir and cp are required. Portable makefiles often use cp because `install' might not be available. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 20:55:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA16399 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA16320; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA165883737; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:55:41 -0700 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA112135608; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:26:48 +0500 Message-Id: <199609250426.AA112135608@fakir.india.hp.com> To: jhs@freebsd.org Cc: phk@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ctm & disc full Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:26:48 +0500 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian, There are a couple of new options in -current CTM that may help you: -B filename backups whatever would be modified to `filename' before applying any patches. -l shows what would be touched -e regex specify `include' and `exclude' regexes which you can -x regex use to touch parts of the source tree Something like the following would be helpful cd your-source-directory for i in somewhere/ctm-files*.gz; do ctm -B $i.back -v -v $i # apply CTM patch if [ $? = 0 ]; then # all ok rm -f $i.back else echo "ctm patch $i failed." exit 1 fi done So if you do encounter problems you could Run: ctm -l ctm-file.gz > list-of-files-that-change Then: ctm -e exp -x exp -e exp ... ctm-file.gz to selectively update what got missed out. OR: restore from the backup file and re-apply the Ctm patch. Hope this helps, Koshy From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 21:10:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA24857 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24816 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA26240; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:04:45 +1000 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:04:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609250404.OAA26240@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, current@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Why is 'install -d' considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it >> encourage bad installation practices when a better installation method >> exists. > >All fine, but also somewhat irrelevant in the fact of several facts: > >1. The other *BSDs are using it, and failure to implement it will > leave us gratuitously incompatible in Yet Another Way. That sucks. Script started on Tue Sep 24 13:52:08 1996 ttyp1:bde@spatter:/a/bde> uname -a BSD/OS spatter.freebsd.org 2.1 BSDI BSD/OS 2.1 Kernel #0: Fri Sep 6 01:35:18 PDT 1996 root@spatter.freebsd.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/SPATTER i386 ttyp1:bde@spatter:/a/bde> install -d zz zz1 install: illegal option -- d usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; or file1 ... fileN directory ttyp1:bde@spatter:/a/bde> exit exit Script done on Tue Sep 24 13:52:26 1996 >The flag is not being used for anything else, people don't have to use it >if they don't want to, I'd say just compatibilty alone is a sufficient >argument - I certainly don't want to be explaining to people why of the >three BSDs, FreeBSD chose to be different. >= six. BSD4.4, BSD4.4Lite, BSDI, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 21:11:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA25024 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24978 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA10368; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Chuck Robey Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > of the case is based on compatibility. I've disagreed with Richard in the > past when he was using the compatibility to move us towards SYSV without a > strong reason, but since we ARE bsd, and the -d option IS bsd, the The -d option *ISN'T* BSD. It was added by J.T. in NetBSD, and when OpenBSD took the entire NetBSD source tree over it was there as well. I'll bet BSDi doesn't have it, and neither does Ultrix, which are also BSD based systems. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 21:17:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA28780 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:17:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28732 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08839; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:16:58 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: nate@mt.sri.com, current@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:04:45 +1000." <199609250404.OAA26240@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:16:57 -0700 Message-ID: <8836.843625017@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >1. The other *BSDs are using it, and failure to implement it will > > leave us gratuitously incompatible in Yet Another Way. That sucks. > > Script started on Tue Sep 24 13:52:08 1996 > [BSD/OS machine] > ttyp1:bde@spatter:/a/bde> install -d zz zz1 > install: illegal option -- d > usage: install [-cs] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2; > or file1 ... fileN directory [ .. Keith bcc'd rather than cc'd in order to prevent him from being dragged through the rest of this thread ..] OK, so then it's: BSDI, FreeBSD OpenBSD, NetBSD That still doesn't equal much more than an undesirable split, even if you try and lump OpenBSD and NetBSD together. Maybe we should ask Keith if they want to add the -d option to install in BSD/OS 2.2? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 22:24:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA29597 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from threadway.teeny.org (threadway.teeny.org [205.231.244.157]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29547 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.teeny.org [127.0.0.1]) by threadway.teeny.org (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA04910; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609250523.WAA04910@threadway.teeny.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Nate Williams cc: Chuck Robey , Richard Wackerbarth , Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:10:45 MDT." <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:23:21 -0700 From: Jason Downs Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: >> of the case is based on compatibility. I've disagreed with Richard in the >> past when he was using the compatibility to move us towards SYSV without a >> strong reason, but since we ARE bsd, and the -d option IS bsd, the > >The -d option *ISN'T* BSD. It was added by J.T. in NetBSD, and when >OpenBSD took the entire NetBSD source tree over it was there as well. >I'll bet BSDi doesn't have it, and neither does Ultrix, which are also >BSD based systems. Maybe not, but it *is* SunOS, and it *is* GNU, and ... etc. -- Jason Downs (503) 256-8535 -/- (503) 952-3749 downsj@teeny.org --> teeny.org: Free Software for a Free Internet <-- http://www.teeny.org/ OpenBSD: The BSD with a soul. http://www.openbsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 22:56:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23848 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23769; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id WAA25931; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA25271; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609250553.WAA25271@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: current@freebsd.org, Gary Jennejohn Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 96 21:42:26 +0200. <199609241942.VAA23185@vector.jhs.no_domain> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:53:45 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I see swapinfo has gone from src/ >& in the cvs tree I see stuff only in Attic/ >Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de tells me >> ... you get the same functionality > with 'pstat -s'. Or top, of course. >I guess it's been abandoned ? I think a more accurate term would be "obsoleted". [...] >If swapinfo is dead, could we perhaps create a new one line swapinfo.1 >& store it pstat, that refers us to pstat, or have the makefile create >a sym link, or provide some kind of life belt ? FYI, swapinfo has been gone from NetBSD for a long time. Well over a year, if I remember correctly. It wasn't really a big deal when it went, either. Pstat is a standard BSD-ism; swapinfo is not. I'm not sure what all the hoopla is about. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 23:03:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA29078 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29042 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA06925; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:02:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:02:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Nate Williams Cc: Chuck Robey , Richard Wackerbarth , Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Nate Williams wrote: >> of the case is based on compatibility. I've disagreed with Richard in the >> past when he was using the compatibility to move us towards SYSV without a >> strong reason, but since we ARE bsd, and the -d option IS bsd, the > >The -d option *ISN'T* BSD. It was added by J.T. in NetBSD, and when >OpenBSD took the entire NetBSD source tree over it was there as well. >I'll bet BSDi doesn't have it, and neither does Ultrix, which are also >BSD based systems. FYI, -d doesn't exist in Ultrix. Brian From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 23:25:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA16366 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16342 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA09117; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:24:00 -0700 (PDT) To: "Brian N. Handy" cc: Nate Williams , Chuck Robey , Richard Wackerbarth , Warner Losh , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:02:42 PDT." Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:23:59 -0700 Message-ID: <9115.843632639@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FYI, -d doesn't exist in Ultrix. Do SunOS machines still count as "reasonably BSD based?" :-) jkh@wc-> uname -a SunOS wc.cdrom. 4.1.4 2 sun4c jkh@wc-> install -d usage: install [-cs] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file ... destination install -d [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] dir Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 23:30:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA20519 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20488; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA05734; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609250629.XAA05734@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , current@freebsd.org, Gary Jennejohn Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:53:45 PDT." <199609250553.WAA25271@MindBender.serv.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:29:52 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I see swapinfo has gone from src/ >>& in the cvs tree I see stuff only in Attic/ > >>Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de tells me >>> ... you get the same functionality > with 'pstat -s'. Or top, of course. > >>I guess it's been abandoned ? > >I think a more accurate term would be "obsoleted". > >[...] >>If swapinfo is dead, could we perhaps create a new one line swapinfo.1 >>& store it pstat, that refers us to pstat, or have the makefile create >>a sym link, or provide some kind of life belt ? > >FYI, swapinfo has been gone from NetBSD for a long time. Well over a >year, if I remember correctly. It wasn't really a big deal when it >went, either. Pstat is a standard BSD-ism; swapinfo is not. I'm not >sure what all the hoopla is about. pstat was modified by me to understand when it is called as "swapinfo", and peforms the intended function for backward compatiblity. Thus, "swapinfo" in FreeBSD is installed as a symlink to pstat. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Tue Sep 24 23:43:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00839 for current-outgoing; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walkabout.asstdc.com.au (imb@walkabout.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.73]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA29968 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by walkabout.asstdc.com.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id QAA01206 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:42:05 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199609250642.QAA01206@walkabout.asstdc.com.au> Subject: 3c589b + ep driver To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:42:05 +1000 (EST) X-Comment: Phone 0419-240-180, International +61-419-240-180 X-Comment: finger imb@asstdc.com.au for PGP public key X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The following patch seems to work for me .. I'd appreciate comments from others whether it helps or not. Note that I am not in favour of adding more loops which cannot be guaranteed to terminate so this patch is experimental only, michael *** if_ep.c~ Mon Sep 23 13:40:33 1996 --- if_ep.c Wed Sep 25 05:06:32 1996 *************** *** 1288,1293 **** --- 1288,1294 ---- return; } all_pkt: + while (inw(BASE + EP_STATUS) & S_COMMAND_IN_PROGRESS); outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, RX_DISCARD_TOP_PACK); /* * recompute average packet's length, the factor used is 1/8 to go down From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:24:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA02102 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02054; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA05905; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609250723.AAA05905@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , "Julian H. Stacey" , current@freebsd.org, Gary Jennejohn Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:29:52 PDT." <199609250629.XAA05734@root.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:23:50 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > pstat was modified by me to understand when it is called as "swapinfo", and ^^^^^ Woops, it was Poul-Henning that made this change; I thought that I had done it in rev 1.3 (where I re-wrote it to work with our swap structures), but this is not the case. Sorry Poul. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:24:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA02525 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (news.gu.net [193.124.51.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA01498; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [193.124.51.73]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28952; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:19:16 +0300 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:19:16 +0300 (EET DST) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Ulf Zimmermann , jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609250320.UAA01584@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Kind of a neat but dirty way is to take the CRC of the system BIOS and the VGA > > BIOS. Problem with it is only if the card get's exchanged, etc. > > And now a days given that all modern motherboards have flash BIOSes a > user is _very_ likely to change it causing this method to fail. 'course. Pity Intel didn't think on burning a unique CPU ID into each chip they made. Even PDP11 had this. What can be thought to become a unique FreeBSD machine ID, anyway? I can think on a MD5 checksum of the following things together: CPU type; motherboard chipset ID (if available); manufacturer's ID of a primary HDD; primary disk controller' ID (if available); OS kernel version (?); canonical hostname. And it's hard for me to think about anything else in a PC world that one might depend upon. PC is not a Sun. :( Best, Andrew From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:29:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA05903 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05663; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA07105; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:28:15 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA09473; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:34:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199609250734.JAA09473@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:34:49 +0200 From: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) To: jhs@freebsd.org (Julian H. Stacey) Cc: current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain>; from Julian H. Stacey on Sep 25, 1996 2:13:01 +0200 References: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.44 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian H. Stacey writes: > I plan to soon sell a 3rd party commercial binary FreeBSD product. > > I either need to : > - Develop alone, hooks for such things as > - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) > - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) > - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions > - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to > - sources, just to Link flags > - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, > but availability of .o files > - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, > so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique > product & system keys. > > - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? FlexLM is one answer. > > I've read `Sun Expert' in the past, with horror stories of Sun lock managers > across nets, & I am not interested in any net strategies, > this will be local to the box. licensing is the most common cuse of customer frustration :-) > > I'm not into academic elegant lots-of-effort solutions, > I'm after a cheap dirty quick solution, I don't want to spend much For the purpose you need it ;-) I'd recommend binding your program to the ethernet address. Your customer wouldn't change their ethernet interface in years. I did that for 386bsd a while ago. I wrote a function 'getether.c' upon which I built a licensing key via crypt(). If you rewrite that function to FreeBSD-current (kvm_open interface has changed a bit) I'll give it to you :-). Ask me in private mail. > time on this, my budgeted work time on this is limited, > (& I'd prefer to spend my free on public source, not licence stuff) > > I have to get something up quickly, & whatever I cobble together, > will be simpler to do alone (& keep secret :-), > but if other vendors are thinking along similar lines, & interested in > some kind of generic mechanism, then I'll try to comply. > > If anyone has something to give or even sell me, or wants to work with me, > please let me know. > > Thanks. > > Julian > --- > Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ -- --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:37:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13183 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13146 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA01853; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199609250736.AAA01853@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <9115.843632639@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Sep 24, 96 11:23:59 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@mt.sri.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > FYI, -d doesn't exist in Ultrix. > > Do SunOS machines still count as "reasonably BSD based?" :-) No, not for version >3.5, since that was when Sun decided to merge SunOS and SYSV. > > jkh@wc-> uname -a > SunOS wc.cdrom. 4.1.4 2 sun4c How about a ``which install'' here? Perchance did you get /usr/5bin/install? > jkh@wc-> install -d > usage: install [-cs] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file ... destination > install -d [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] dir > > Jordan > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:38:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13926 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA13857 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA07224 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:38:52 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA09520 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:45:27 +0200 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:45:27 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199609250745.JAA09520@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: mkdep problem Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to build a -current (a fews days old) on a machine and I'm not sure whether it's my setup or what else, anyway could someone fill me in what the following could mean: (make depend) S/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../contrib/gcc/config/i386/i386.c /u/BLUES/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/calls.c:366: macro `RETURN_POPS_ARGS' used with only 2 args /u/BLUES/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/calls.c:368: macro `RETURN_POPS_ARGS' used with only 2 args /u/BLUES/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/calls.c:445: macro `RETURN_POPS_ARGS' used with only 2 args /u/BLUES/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/calls.c:452: macro `RETURN_POPS_ARGS' used with only 2 args /u/BLUES/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/function.c:3846: macro `RETURN_POPS_ARGS' used with only 2 args mkdep: compile failed. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:40:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14980 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14940 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA13036 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609250739.DAA13036@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just did a make world and it looks like swapinfo is linked to pstat. $ l /usr/sbin/swapinfo -r-xr-sr-x 2 bin kmem 20480 Sep 24 22:56 /usr/sbin/swapinfo $ l /usr/sbin/pstat -r-xr-sr-x 2 bin kmem 20480 Sep 24 22:56 /usr/sbin/pstat $ swapinfo Device 512-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0s4b 163840 27520 136192 17% Interleaved |If swapinfo is dead, could we perhaps create a new one line swapinfo.1 |& store it pstat, that refers us to pstat, or have the makefile create |a sym link, or provide some kind of life belt ? Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 00:50:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA23355 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com (harlan.fred.net [205.252.219.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23308; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mumps.pfcs.com (mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11]) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA03849; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:49:46 -0400 Received: from localhost by mumps.pfcs.com with SMTP id AA25380 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:49:24 -0400 To: Brian Tao Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Default mousepointer position In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:47:22 EDT." Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:49:23 -0300 Message-Id: <25378.843637763@mumps.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Emily Litella would say: Oh. That would be different then. Never mind. H From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 01:47:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA29032 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA28985; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA20722; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id SAA02970; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:46:33 +1000 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199609250846.SAA02970@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: ulf@Lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:46:33 +1000 (EST) Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609250231.TAA01832@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Sep 24, 96 07:31:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I plan to soon sell a 3rd party commercial binary FreeBSD product. > > > > I either need to : > > - Develop alone, hooks for such things as > > - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) > > - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) > > - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions > > - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to > > - sources, just to Link flags > > - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, > > but availability of .o files > > - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, > > so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique > > product & system keys. > > > > - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? www.elan.com -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | 0619737CCC143F6DEA73E27378933690 | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 03:12:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA20874 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20836 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA09697; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:00:41 -0700 (PDT) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@mt.sri.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:36:51 PDT." <199609250736.AAA01853@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:00:40 -0700 Message-ID: <9695.843645640@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, not for version >3.5, since that was when Sun decided to merge > SunOS and SYSV. Wellll. I think "merge" is rather too strong a way of putting it (but let's try not get into an extended SunOS debate in FreeBSD-current, OK? :-) As I remember, they didn't actually start seriously perverting things into a fully SYSV direction until a fair bit later than this given that there was a lot of resistance just inside Sun to permuting the SunOS codebase thusly and what eventually became Solaris spun off fairly early, allowing SunOS to keep a fair amount of its BSDisms intact. > How about a ``which install'' here? Perchance did you get /usr/5bin/install? whjkh@wc-> which install /bin/install Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 04:00:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA19741 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19703 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA02555 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:01:08 -0700 Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09197; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:57:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:57:43 -0500 To: Bruce Evans From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Besides, there is a very good reason to have the option. > ^not >>When you are bootstrapping, you don't care about "doing it right", but >>simply "getting it done". The fewer tools required, the better. > >Only mkdir and cp are required. Portable makefiles often use cp because >`install' might not be available. I agree. Unfortunately "cp" does not understand the "-o bin -g bin" and other options that currently get forced onto the call to "install". As a result, at a minimum, you have to write a shell script for "install" to strip out the extra arguments. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 05:45:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA03914 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA03887 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.21]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA12104; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02790; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:45:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: gilligan.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Nate Williams cc: Richard Wackerbarth , Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > of the case is based on compatibility. I've disagreed with Richard in the > > past when he was using the compatibility to move us towards SYSV without a > > strong reason, but since we ARE bsd, and the -d option IS bsd, the > > The -d option *ISN'T* BSD. It was added by J.T. in NetBSD, and when > OpenBSD took the entire NetBSD source tree over it was there as well. > I'll bet BSDi doesn't have it, and neither does Ultrix, which are also > BSD based systems. And add that Sun DOES do it. I'll check ultrix. > > > Nate > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 06:51:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA23617 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 06:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA23591 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 06:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA07928; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:49:25 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609251349.IAA07928@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:49:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <8491.843618443@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 24, 96 07:27:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > which may actually fix the problem) whereas I expect this `install -d' > thread to go on over at least 5 or 6 more messages, possibly twice > that many. An outright panic raises hardly an eyebrow, but an extra > FLAG, well, it's a drop-everything-and-race-to-the-email crisis! :-) > > If that doesn't say something about sociology, I don't know what does. Perhaps you misunderstand it, then... When you propose a change that has both pros and cons associated with it, there is merit to discussing the pros and cons, the architectural and philosophical issues behind it, and all that crap. This is part of how you reach a goal that some people call "excellence in engineering", but it is just as easy to say that we are trying to make up our collective minds as to what the best course of action is, when no strictly "correct" course of action is available. I think that everyone would clearly agree that a panic which causes a system death is a bad thing... and therefore is very little to discuss, except perhaps between the people experiencing the problem, and whoever the FreeBSD NFS gods are. It is really a good thing that issues get examined from a number of sides by people with different specialties and backgrounds before changes are made. Does it get a bit extreme at times? Yes. Is that bad? Only if no general consensus is reached. Me, personally, I tend to argue for 1) backwards compatibility, 2) general usability, and 3) portability in these sorts of discussions. That is a reflection of the fact that I work in a heterogeneous environment and try to keep my operations as similar as possible across multiple platforms. I hate having to twiddle with something due to a gratuitous difference (a basis on which I would argue for "-d"), or worse yet, a gratuitous change (as you may remember). I would hate to see FreeBSD change substantially in this regard. It would invariably change for the worse if everyone just started Doing Their Own Thing. On the other hand, it would be nice if a conclusion could be reached more quickly. ;-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 07:11:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA06743 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-2.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06682; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04247; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:14:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609250114.DAA04247@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UID < 65535? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:09:48 +0200." <199609242209.AAA14529@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:14:25 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) > > Alex is a filesystem that lets users access files in FTP sites around > the world just like they access local files. The name Alex comes from > the ancient Library of Alexandria. Alexandria gathered information from > around the world into one easy to access location. Alex does an analogous > thing in a very modern way. BBC World Service Radio tonight mentioned that I believe, apparently a King long ago passed an edict: All books in all ships coming in to port were to be confiscated, copied, by his scribes then returned to ships. But I wouldn't swear to the accuracy (mine or the scribes). Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 07:14:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA08299 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08278 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA07966; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:11:45 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609251411.JAA07966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:11:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@mt.sri.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609250736.AAA01853@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Sep 25, 96 00:36:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do SunOS machines still count as "reasonably BSD based?" :-) > > No, not for version >3.5, since that was when Sun decided to merge > SunOS and SYSV. HUH??! I think what you MEANT to say was that Sun decided to provide some SysV compatibility stuff around version 4.0. I run 4.1, 4.1.1U1, 4.1.3, and maybe a few other variants all after 3.5 and I have a hard time seeing any basis for saying that it is a merged BSD/SYSV. Sun actually went SYSV(-ish) sometime after SunOS 4.1.3. The stench was initially so bad that they ultimately released 4.1.4 as an irate customer pacification. If SunOS had indeed truly merged BSD and SYSV during all the years of 4.0-4.1.3, I doubt that we would have seen YEARS of delay between the last "usable" SunOS (4.1.3) released sometime in 1992 and the first "usable" Solaris (5.4) released sometime in 1995 (IIRC, which I may not). That was one damn bumpy transition - and even 5.4 did not perform at what I would consider a comparable level to 4.1.3. Now, internally SunOS had changed quite a bit over time, even before 4.0. With the addition of things such as the unified VM/buffer cache, NFS, NIS, etc., etc., it became substantially different than the UCB CSRG releases. However, FreeBSD has diverged in a similar fashion and I submit that SunOS clearly presented itself as a BSD system and hid the SYSV compatibility crud in a dark dusty closet known as /usr/5{bin,include,lib}. > > jkh@wc-> uname -a > > SunOS wc.cdrom. 4.1.4 2 sun4c > > How about a ``which install'' here? Perchance did you get /usr/5bin/install? (brasil.jgreco.p2-2) 8:55am ~ 52521 > uname -a SunOS brasil 4.1.3 3 sun4c (brasil.jgreco.p2-2) 8:55am ~ 52522 > which install /bin/install (brasil.jgreco.p2-2) 8:55am ~ 52523 > ls -ld /bin/install /bin/ls -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 10744 Jul 23 1992 /bin/install -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 13352 Jul 23 1992 /bin/ls (brasil.jgreco.p2-2) 8:55am ~ 52524 > I do not see a "/usr/5bin/install" but I grant that this is 4.1.3, not 4.1.4 that I am looking at. Anyways... :-) :-) :-) just for good measure. ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 07:16:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09456 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09417; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA23310; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:15:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:15:23 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609251415.AA23310@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609250118.SAA05124@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> <199609250118.SAA05124@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Machine ID: 32 bit value > use network tuple > use ifconfig interface > attempt to subvert via kernel hacking will damage ifconfig No, do not use any form of network address for machine identification. This sort of idiocy is one of the most significant barriers to the IPv6 transition and to flexible renumbering in general. Network addresses are just that, ADDRESSES. They are subject to change at will, without notice, and without any recourse on the part of the licensee. (Some of the other proposals for IPng would have separated the addressing and identification completely, but unfortunately this did not happen.) DEC's license manager does not identify machines at all. You can in fact just copy /var/adm/lmf/ldb from one machine to another and it will work just fine. (We can legally do this because we have a site license.) If PCs had some sort of IEEE 802.x address burned into them as a sort of serial number, you might be able to do this, but they don't, so you can't do this, either. Probably the best you can do is some sort of network machine-id-uniqueness verification, but if you want to avoid doing network stuff that doesn't help. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 07:20:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA11418 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA11200; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5up0-00091gC; Wed, 25 Sep 96 07:20 PDT Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA22427; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:16:25 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199609251416.KAA22427@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jhs@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, serious@FreeBSD.ORG, commercial@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199609250013.CAA02049@vector.jhs.no_domain> from "Julian H. Stacey" at Sep 25, 96 02:13:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Julian H. Stacey had to walk into mine and say: > I plan to soon sell a 3rd party commercial binary FreeBSD product. Joy. > I either need to : > - Develop alone, hooks for such things as > - constructing machine IDs (from poking around the system) Think hard about this. It's not as easy as it may first appear. With PCs, you can swap out practically all the hardware, particularly ethernet cards, so trying to find a hardware ID value that doesn't change is a real challenge. Another problem with using ethernet addresses is that you need to grovel around in /dev/kmem in order to get them. This would require your executable to be setgid kmem in order to work. And speaking of /dev/kmem, since we're dealing with an OS that comes with complete source, it would probably be ridiculously simple for someone to defeat a hardware identification scheme even if you could find a reliable one. That said, one solution that always works is a dongle, but this means sinking more money into the licensing scheme since dongles don't grow on trees. > - user count (for single workstation or multi user server pricing) If you intend to enforce usage limits in any way, you'll need a daemon. You can't restrict concurrent access using just a nodelock license file, so even your single workstation users will have to run a license server. The alternative (which doesn't work) is to have the executable keep a usage count in a file somewhere, and that approach is easily subverted. (Actually, it's possible that you could also use a really smart dongle, but then you're back to spending more money again.) > - link crippled-write, time limited, demo versions Link? No. Compile? Yes. > - make must be minimal hastle to authors, requiring no change to > - sources, just to Link flags Forget it. Some source changes will be required, otherwise how do you expect the license checking routines to get invoked? License servers can sometimes cause trouble for you since they often need to steal a file descriptor which stays open all the time so that the program and the server can send 'heartbeat' pings to each other. Sometimes the license routine in the client program also installs signal handlers which may interfere with the application unless special steps are taken. This means the programmer may have to make a few added changes to accomodate the licensing system. > - non availability to me (as distributor) of source, > but availability of .o files Well, we all know if there's no source, then it can't be any good anyway. :) > - Or I can maybe develop a mechanism with other interested commercial sellers, > so that FreeBSD would have some generic mechanism, & maybe unique > product & system keys. First you have to figure out how to positively identify a given PC. After that, it's not a problem to come up some software. > - Or I can even buy in such a solution if one's available ? You could, but then you'd have to 'pass along the savings' to your customers, who would be less than pleased. > I've read `Sun Expert' in the past, with horror stories of Sun lock managers > across nets, & I am not interested in any net strategies, > this will be local to the box. Like I said, you'll still need a license daemon to enforce usage limits. (Unless you want to be a nice guy and allow regular nodelocked licensing without charging an arm and a leg for it.) > I'm not into academic elegant lots-of-effort solutions, > I'm after a cheap dirty quick solution, I don't want to spend much > time on this, my budgeted work time on this is limited, > (& I'd prefer to spend my free on public source, not licence stuff) Hoodwink someone else into working on the licensed stuff. :) > I have to get something up quickly, & whatever I cobble together, > will be simpler to do alone (& keep secret :-), Doesn't matter if you keep the details locked in a vault: there is no software licensing system available that can't be broken. You may deter a few clueless people, but all it takes is one clueful person to find a way around the licensing and start passing it around to his friends, and so on, and so on and so on. > but if other vendors are thinking along similar lines, & interested in > some kind of generic mechanism, then I'll try to comply. [Subliminal message: "Conform... Conform... CONFORM.... Conform..."] > If anyone has something to give or even sell me, or wants to work with me, > please let me know. A while ago, I put together a very simple software licensing library using -- surprise -- RPC. I also used DES to generate license encryption strings however, so it may not be practical to distribute it. (And before anyone shouts 'MD5!' keep in mind that I have to decrypt the strings too.) I wanted to make a licensing system similar to FLEXlm, but which didn't necessarily require seperate vendor daemons. I also wanted to try to find a way around the awful flaw in FLEXlm that makes it practically worthless. It sort of worked, but I got bored with it after a while and let it languish. My license file format looks somewhat like theirs, except I added a 'vendor' field to the feature lines so that you could have more than one vendor using the same feature name, and I don't use vendor deamon specifications. The license can be either nodelocked, floating or demo (works anywhere until the expiration date hits). All the licensing information (including the hostid) is checksummed together and the checksum, along with a verification code is encrypted using a key which only the vendor and the application knows. The application then decrypts the string, verifies the checksum (to see if the licensing information is valid) and then hashes the verification code. If the hashed verification code matches its own hashed verification code, then it accepts the license as valid. For a nodelock license, it also compares the hostid in the license file to that of the local host and bombs if they don't match. For a floating license, the application also tries to contact the license server listed in the license file and communicates with the server (using encryption with keys derived from the license encryption strings) and tries checking out a license. The license server reads the same license file and also verifies the information before allowing licenses to be checked out. My original reason for using RPC was so that I could use clnt_broadcast() to dynamically locate servers so that there might be fewer configration hassles, but I never got around to implementing that. That said, I'm not going to give the code to you, because it's mainly just a toy and I wouldn't want you to get in trouble if it blows up, or if someone happens to find a trivial way to defeat it. (I wonder... can you sue a licensing software vendor if their software causes you to lose money?) -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "If you're ever in trouble, go to the CTR. Ask for Bill. He will help you." ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 07:32:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18382 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18344 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA23708; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:31:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:31:47 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609251431.AA23708@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Bruce Evans Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Boot-block keyboard probe In-Reply-To: <199609250438.OAA27188@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199609250438.OAA27188@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Excessive CC list trimmed, discussion moved to -current.] < said: > I think the keyboard controller always responds with KB_RESEND (0xFE) > after a timeout. The probe thinks that this is from the keyboard and > returns "Found". Thus the probe only works if its own timeout is too > short. It worked better in rev.1.1 where not-Found was returned if > KB_RESEND was received. Apparently there were problems with attached > keyboards also returning KB_RESEND. We applied the following patch to ship a version with working serial console support: diff -c -r1.1.1.1 -r1.2 *** probe_keyboard.c 1996/05/31 19:19:34 1.1.1.1 --- probe_keyboard.c 1996/06/03 17:24:08 1.2 *************** *** 85,96 **** printf("gotres\n"); #endif if (!retries) { - if (val == KB_RESEND) { - #ifdef DEBUG - printf("gave up\n"); - #endif - return(0); - } return(1); } gotack: --- 85,90 ---- We haven't seen this fail yet. Life would be much easier with a decent keyboard design. Perhaps we'll be seeing USB keyboards soon... -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 09:01:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04034 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03869 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id RAA15370; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:45:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14135; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:48:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:48:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sendmail 8.6.7 ? In-Reply-To: <199609232159.OAA28572@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > Is sendmail 8.7.6 going to be imported into current anytime soon? > > > It is already as far I know. # telnet localhost smtp Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 klemm.gtn.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.7.6/8.7.3; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:44:03 +0200 (MET DST) It is in -current as you can see ;) -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 09:23:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17582 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17509 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00893 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:23:39 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id SAA08343 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:23:22 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Beta.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id HAA15932; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:18:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609250518.HAA15932@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:18:03 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? In-Reply-To: <199609241942.VAA23185@vector.jhs.no_domain>; from Julian H. Stacey on Sep 24, 1996 21:42:26 +0200 References: <199609241942.VAA23185@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.44.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2490 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Julian H. Stacey: > I guess it's been abandoned ? Julian, where were you ? On the moon ? :-) phk 95/05/13 10:26:36 ^^^^^^^^ Removed: usr.sbin/swapinfo Makefile README swapinfo.1 swapinfo.c Log: pstat does emulate swapinfo now. Thanks to David for reminding me about this piece of bogosity. 853 -r-xr-sr-x 2 bin kmem 20480 Sep 21 03:04 /usr/sbin/pstat 853 -r-xr-sr-x 2 bin kmem 20480 Sep 21 03:04 /usr/sbin/swapinfo -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sat Sep 21 00:18:27 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 10:53:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07207 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07022; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06278; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:48:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251748.KAA06278@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:48:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Stesin" at Sep 25, 96 10:19:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 'course. Pity Intel didn't think on burning a unique CPU > ID into each chip they made. Even PDP11 had this. > What can be thought to become a unique FreeBSD machine ID, anyway? > > I can think on a MD5 checksum of the following > things together: > > CPU type; > motherboard chipset ID (if available); > manufacturer's ID of a primary HDD; > primary disk controller' ID (if available); > OS kernel version (?); > canonical hostname. Network address. Really. You will never get two machines setting the same network address because if you did, they would fail to operate as network nodes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:01:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA12660 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12564; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06301; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:59:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:59:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9609251415.AA23310@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Sep 25, 96 10:15:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Machine ID: 32 bit value > > use network tuple > > use ifconfig interface > > attempt to subvert via kernel hacking will damage ifconfig > > No, do not use any form of network address for machine > identification. This sort of idiocy is one of the most significant > barriers to the IPv6 transition and to flexible renumbering in > general. Network addresses are just that, ADDRESSES. They are > subject to change at will, without notice, and without any recourse on > the part of the licensee. (Some of the other proposals for IPng would > have separated the addressing and identification completely, but > unfortunately this did not happen.) The return from the hostid function is supposed to be a 32 bit value. One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 transition? I don't think so; why would it be a barrier? Flexible renumbering in general? Yes, I'll admit it's a barrier to flexible renumbering. Under what circumstances would you want to allow a license host to "flexibly renumber"? To hide the licenses from Billy-Bob? It makes no sense. If you are talking about renumbering for some other scheme than transient connectivity and/or temporary address assignment (neither of which should apply to a license hosting host), I'd suggest allowing renumbering under software control of fixed installations is silly and unnecessary and is the reason we have non-numeric machine "names" associated with the tuples in the first place: so we can move the tag around without moving the tuple. > DEC's license manager does not identify machines at all. You can in > fact just copy /var/adm/lmf/ldb from one machine to another and it > will work just fine. (We can legally do this because we have a site > license.) But if you didn't, you could still illegally do it. The point is that you want a software barrier to illegal activity. > If PCs had some sort of IEEE 802.x address burned into them > as a sort of serial number, you might be able to do this, but they > don't, so you can't do this, either. I don't know about your machine, but mine has one: # dmesg | grep de0 de0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 ------------------------------***************** de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port de0: interrupting at irq 11 de0 rev 35 int a irq 11 on pci0:6 de0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 --------------------------------------------------------***************** de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port The problem with using this value is that it is larger than 32 bits. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:13:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21313 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21282; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA25774; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:12:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:12:10 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman), jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <9609251415.AA23310@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Flexible renumbering in general? Yes, I'll admit it's a barrier > to flexible renumbering. Under what circumstances would you want > to allow a license host to "flexibly renumber"? To hide the > licenses from Billy-Bob? It makes no sense. You do not assign your addresses. Your IP addresses reflect the topology your host is embedded in. That's what makes them ADDRESSES. They are subject to change at the whim of anyone in topology who is logically ``above'' you. In IPv6, the standard configuration model is that a host, when powered on, will ask the network what its address is, and there is no guarantee whatsoever that the address it got before is the same as the address is gets now, because the prefix (in particular) can change without notice. >> If PCs had some sort of IEEE 802.x address burned into them >> as a sort of serial number, you might be able to do this, but they >> don't, so you can't do this, either. > I don't know about your machine, but mine has one: > # dmesg | grep de0 > de0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 > de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 I said ``burned into [a PC]''. Moving these things around happens frequently and is certainly easy to do. Try again. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:15:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22931 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21939 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06326; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:08:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251808.LAA06326@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:08:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@mt.sri.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251411.JAA07966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 25, 96 09:11:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sun actually went SYSV(-ish) sometime after SunOS 4.1.3. Heh. mount -o grpid Is required on 4.1.3 to force BSD instead of SYSV directory inheritance semantics. This SYSV-ism predates Solaris. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:26:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29937 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29779; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06357; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:23:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251823.LAA06357@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:23:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251416.KAA22427@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at Sep 25, 96 10:16:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Think hard about this. It's not as easy as it may first appear. With > PCs, you can swap out practically all the hardware, particularly ethernet > cards, so trying to find a hardware ID value that doesn't change is a > real challenge. > > Another problem with using ethernet addresses is that you need to > grovel around in /dev/kmem in order to get them. This would require your > executable to be setgid kmem in order to work. No. If you use *IP* address, you don't have this problem. In point of fact, there was a recent discussion on the SCO and Linux ABI front that determined that you could get ethernet hardware addresses for any given real ethernet interface using one of the ABI routines. So you can forget about having to grovel kmem. I specifically referenced IP addresses in my discussion because: 1) ifconfig will fail to operate if you hack the interface it uses so that it lies about IP address to your license daemon. 2) Your network will fail to operate if two machines are given the same IP address; they won't both work at the same time; it depends on who gets into what ARP table when, and even then, it won't necessarily be functional. 3) You could safely hack the ethernet address return interface and no one would be the wiser because no system software components really depends on it. 4) LANCE interfaces on DEC and Sun harware can have their address reprogrammed. This is practically true of any ethernet card capable of supporting DECNet or DECNet bridging/routing. The Novell/Excellan "LANalyzer" card is one example of a PC card which can do this. 5) The ethernet address (as opposed to the IP address) is a 48 bit value, and therefore unsuitable for use by hostid. 6) Using the IP address for the hostid return is traditional. > I also wanted to try to find a way around the awful flaw in FLEXlm that > makes it practically worthless. It sort of worked, but I got bored with > it after a while and let it languish. Heh. I forgot about that one. Yeah, that's a bit of a problem, isn't it? I remember the day we found out about it; we were using Framemaker. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:32:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03714 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03621; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06376; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:30:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251830.LAA06376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:30:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Sep 25, 96 02:12:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... lots of argument on "why it is impossible" ... ] Fine, then you don't get licenses. Surprising that SCO, Sun, and Linux (all PC OS's) all have working versions of Flex/LM and other license management software, what with it being impossible and all... Discussion: o If your topology prefix is subject to change, don't include it. It's just "one more damn thing" to push you over the allowed 32 bit limit anyway. o If "someone over you" changes the topology by positional fiat ("I am the VP and that's the way it will be"), then *they* can eat the cost of what they want done. It is a matter of physics. You can not change the way things operate simply because you dislike it. There are unavoidable consequences to irrational acts, and having to update your licenses in this situation is one of them. Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this". Doctor: "Don't do that". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:39:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07383 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06714 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA08445; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:32:39 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609251832.NAA08445@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:32:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@mt.sri.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, rkw@dataplex.net, imp@village.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251808.LAA06326@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 25, 96 11:08:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Sun actually went SYSV(-ish) sometime after SunOS 4.1.3. > > Heh. > > mount -o grpid > > Is required on 4.1.3 to force BSD instead of SYSV directory > inheritance semantics. This SYSV-ism predates Solaris. Okay, so where's the rest of it? Or... need I counter with a feature by feature comparison? /usr/bin/echo on SunOS has BSD semantics. [... etc etc etc lines and lines of BSD semantics ...] Directory inheritance has SYSV semantics. One feature does not make a system into SYSV. "Geeeeeeeez!" ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:49:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA12951 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12927 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA08490; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:46:20 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609251846.NAA08490@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:46:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609251839.MAA12703@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 25, 96 12:39:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Sun actually went SYSV(-ish) sometime after SunOS 4.1.3. > > > > > > Heh. > > > > > > mount -o grpid > > > > > > Is required on 4.1.3 to force BSD instead of SYSV directory > > > inheritance semantics. This SYSV-ism predates Solaris. > ... > > One feature does not make a system into SYSV. > > But it also implies that the system can't be considered a 'pure BSD' > system, since it obvious incoroporates various SYSV features, which up > to this point have been the inclusion of 'install -d' and the above > mount changes. > > SunOS4 != BSD, but neither does is it SysV. It's a hybrid, that happens > to be more BSD'ish than SysV. Thank goodness they stuck with most of > the BSD semantics. :) What I have seen of SysV semantics in SunOS land leads me to believe that they stuck ALL userland things that they considered to be SysV semantics into /usr/5{bin,lib,include}. That seems very reasonable considering that these were all additions to the system. Sun (at least around here) did clearly promote it as a BSD derived system. ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 11:55:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA17078 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17049 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5z3H-00091YC; Wed, 25 Sep 96 11:51 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12703; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609251839.MAA12703@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Joe Greco Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609251832.NAA08445@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199609251808.LAA06326@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199609251832.NAA08445@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Sun actually went SYSV(-ish) sometime after SunOS 4.1.3. > > > > Heh. > > > > mount -o grpid > > > > Is required on 4.1.3 to force BSD instead of SYSV directory > > inheritance semantics. This SYSV-ism predates Solaris. ... > One feature does not make a system into SYSV. But it also implies that the system can't be considered a 'pure BSD' system, since it obvious incoroporates various SYSV features, which up to this point have been the inclusion of 'install -d' and the above mount changes. SunOS4 != BSD, but neither does is it SysV. It's a hybrid, that happens to be more BSD'ish than SysV. Thank goodness they stuck with most of the BSD semantics. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 12:20:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03731 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03682; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v5zV3-00091yC; Wed, 25 Sep 96 12:20 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12845; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609251905.NAA12845@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul), jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251823.LAA06357@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199609251416.KAA22427@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> <199609251823.LAA06357@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Licensing schemes ] > > Think hard about this. It's not as easy as it may first appear. With > > PCs, you can swap out practically all the hardware, particularly ethernet > > cards, so trying to find a hardware ID value that doesn't change is a > > real challenge. Heck, I switch ethernet cards on my laptop a couple times/day. :) > > Another problem with using ethernet addresses is that you need to > > grovel around in /dev/kmem in order to get them. This would require your > > executable to be setgid kmem in order to work. > > No. If you use *IP* address, you don't have this problem. Heck, I switch IP addresses on my laptop 4-5 times/month. I also *could* switch the name of my system that often as well, but I usually don't since the hostname is irrelevant if your IP setup is valid. > I specifically referenced IP addresses in my discussion because: Neither IP address or ethernet address will work, because of all of the previous reasons, plus some that haven't been discussed. If I'm a mobile user, don't punish me for having the ability to be flexible. Basically, there is no good solution. My opinion of the matter is to make it a 'local' file that is hard to hack, and then someone hide it's location in the FS (inode #????) so that if you copy it to another machine it won't work. My opinion is that the software should work on *this* disk, and that everything else is subject to change. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 12:33:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11908 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA11724; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA09117; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199609251927.MAA09117@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251748.KAA06278@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Sep 25, 96 10:48:14 am" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: stesin@gu.net, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 'course. Pity Intel didn't think on burning a unique CPU > > ID into each chip they made. Even PDP11 had this. > > What can be thought to become a unique FreeBSD machine ID, anyway? > > > > I can think on a MD5 checksum of the following > > things together: > > > > CPU type; > > motherboard chipset ID (if available); > > manufacturer's ID of a primary HDD; > > primary disk controller' ID (if available); > > OS kernel version (?); > > canonical hostname. > > Network address. Really. > > You will never get two machines setting the same network address > because if you did, they would fail to operate as network nodes. Yea, so, I put a third box called a dummy router/NAT between them and make them talk. Novell Netware servers can be fooled into operating this way (thats how I do server to server upgrades of Netware, just put a router between them and spoof a few things, works great, and no inplace upgrade risk, and no need for a second license.) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 12:37:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14621 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14565; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA26052; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:36:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:36:21 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609251936.AA26052@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman), jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251830.LAA06376@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <199609251830.LAA06376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > o If your topology prefix is subject to change, don't include > it. It's just "one more damn thing" to push you over the > allowed 32 bit limit anyway. What ``allowed 32 bit limit''? > o If "someone over you" changes the topology by positional > fiat ("I am the VP and that's the way it will be"), then BZZZT! You clearly don't understand the world works. It's more like: ``We decided that MCI is charging us too much so now we are customers of SprintLink. Deal with it.'' > *they* can eat the cost of what they want done. It is a > matter of physics. You can not change the way things > operate simply because you dislike it. There are unavoidable That's right. No amount of babbling on your part will causes addresses to stop being Addresses and start being Names. If you want to treat them as Names, that's fine, but don't expect any Internet providers to route your traffic. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:02:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00798 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00617; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA06526; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:57:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609251957.MAA06526@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:57:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609251905.NAA12845@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 25, 96 01:05:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I specifically referenced IP addresses in my discussion because: > > Neither IP address or ethernet address will work, because of all of the > previous reasons, plus some that haven't been discussed. If I'm a > mobile user, don't punish me for having the ability to be flexible. The only "punishment" is that you can't take all of the site licenses to New Jersey with you when you take your laptop on vacation. > Basically, there is no good solution. My opinion of the matter is to > make it a 'local' file that is hard to hack, and then someone hide it's > location in the FS (inode #????) so that if you copy it to another > machine it won't work. Unless they use dump/restore. > My opinion is that the software should work on *this* disk, and that > everything else is subject to change. :) You simply can not uniquely identify PC hardware, other than drawing an arbitrary line at a configuration value that is not very easy or convenient to change, and which is typically not allowed to be duplicated on multiple machines. Dongles (the only real soloution being a hardware soloution) are simply too damn intrusive to be an acceptable soloution. Anyone who is arguing against a software only soloution is either arguing *for* dongles (an unrealistic argument) or *for* the elimination of licensing (another unrealistic argument). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:05:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02048 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01934; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA08640; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:02:24 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609252002.PAA08640@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:02:23 -0500 (CDT) Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, terry@lambert.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 25, 96 10:59:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, do not use any form of network address for machine > > identification. This sort of idiocy is one of the most significant > > barriers to the IPv6 transition and to flexible renumbering in > > general. Network addresses are just that, ADDRESSES. They are > > subject to change at will, without notice, and without any recourse on > > the part of the licensee. (Some of the other proposals for IPng would > > have separated the addressing and identification completely, but > > unfortunately this did not happen.) > > The return from the hostid function is supposed to be a 32 bit value. > > One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 transition? I don't think so; > why would it be a barrier? One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 is the people who are going to cling to their IPv4 IP addresses for reasons such as legacy license servers. (I don't know if that is true or not, but I suspect it is more true than not)... I think that was what he was sayin'. > Flexible renumbering in general? Yes, I'll admit it's a barrier > to flexible renumbering. Under what circumstances would you want > to allow a license host to "flexibly renumber"? To hide the > licenses from Billy-Bob? It makes no sense. When the customer is assigned an address block out of an ISP's CIDR block and wants to change ISP's because the old ISP is out of business? There is a definite need to be able to flexibly renumber. > If you are talking about renumbering for some other scheme than > transient connectivity and/or temporary address assignment (neither > of which should apply to a license hosting host), I'd suggest allowing > renumbering under software control of fixed installations is silly > and unnecessary and is the reason we have non-numeric machine "names" > associated with the tuples in the first place: so we can move the > tag around without moving the tuple. > > > > DEC's license manager does not identify machines at all. You can in > > fact just copy /var/adm/lmf/ldb from one machine to another and it > > will work just fine. (We can legally do this because we have a site > > license.) > > But if you didn't, you could still illegally do it. The point is > that you want a software barrier to illegal activity. > > > > If PCs had some sort of IEEE 802.x address burned into them > > as a sort of serial number, you might be able to do this, but they > > don't, so you can't do this, either. > > I don't know about your machine, but mine has one: > > # dmesg | grep de0 > de0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 > de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > ------------------------------***************** > de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port > de0: interrupting at irq 11 > de0 rev 35 int a irq 11 on pci0:6 > de0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > --------------------------------------------------------***************** > de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port > > The problem with using this value is that it is larger than 32 bits. Of course, when you switch Ethernet cards, you are screwed. Although I will tend to think that's a better solution than IP address :-) The PC isn't suited to this. It has no hardware to do it. And even on machines where there is hardware to do it, node locked licenses suck. ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:07:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02946 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02711; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06541; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:02:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252002.NAA06541@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:02:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251927.MAA09117@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Sep 25, 96 12:27:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yea, so, I put a third box called a dummy router/NAT between them > and make them talk. Novell Netware servers can be fooled into > operating this way (thats how I do server to server upgrades of > Netware, just put a router between them and spoof a few things, > works great, and no inplace upgrade risk, and no need for a second > license.) All software soloutions *can* be spoofed. The Flex/LM spoof is trivial, and can be easily using a shell script with a sleep delay and a background job. Other than forcing the PC to be redesigned (in which case, I say getting rid of ISA entirely is a more worthy goal than installing serial numbers, since I can trap the memory references and lie about those too), there's really no fix. Yet Linux, SCO, Solaris, and UnixWare all have license manager software, and you guys insisting on ethnic purity inre: the network interface is succeeding in doing nothing other than making FreeBSD a less attractive commercial platform. Unless that's your ultimate goal, it seems pretty stupid to put forth arguments against instead of arguments for. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:10:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03997 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03783; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06581; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:08:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252008.NAA06581@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:08:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9609251936.AA26052@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Sep 25, 96 03:36:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > o If your topology prefix is subject to change, don't include > > it. It's just "one more damn thing" to push you over the > > allowed 32 bit limit anyway. > > What ``allowed 32 bit limit''? This one: % man hostid GETHOSTID(3) UNIX Programmer's Manual GETHOSTID(3) NAME gethostid, sethostid - get/set unique identifier of current host SYNOPSIS #include long gethostid(void) > > o If "someone over you" changes the topology by positional > > fiat ("I am the VP and that's the way it will be"), then > > BZZZT! You clearly don't understand the world works. It's more like: > > ``We decided that MCI is charging us too much so now we are customers > of SprintLink. Deal with it.'' "It will take a week to resolve the licensing issues your decision has fomented. Thank you for your patience during this transition period. By the way, since Garrett says we will all be using IPv6 soon enough that we should consider it in our discusion, the company should obtain IPv6 address assignements so that this will never happen again as a result of changing our NSP/ISP". > > *they* can eat the cost of what they want done. It is a > > matter of physics. You can not change the way things > > operate simply because you dislike it. There are unavoidable > > That's right. No amount of babbling on your part will causes > addresses to stop being Addresses and start being Names. If you want > to treat them as Names, that's fine, but don't expect any Internet > providers to route your traffic. So what is "Garrett's soloution to the licensing issue to put FreeBSD on a par with other OS's who, by ignoring Garrett, have seeminly arrived at satisfactory soloutions to the problem Garrett claims is insoluable"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:22:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07958 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07853; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06603; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:19:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252019.NAA06603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:19:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252002.PAA08640@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 25, 96 03:02:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 transition? I don't think so; > > why would it be a barrier? > > One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 is the people who are going to cling > to their IPv4 IP addresses for reasons such as legacy license servers. > > (I don't know if that is true or not, but I suspect it is more true than > not)... I think that was what he was sayin'. Then IPv6 is already screwed, isn't it, and a general soloution to the problem for all systems will solve it for FreeBSD at the same time. This is a non-problem. > > Flexible renumbering in general? Yes, I'll admit it's a barrier > > to flexible renumbering. Under what circumstances would you want > > to allow a license host to "flexibly renumber"? To hide the > > licenses from Billy-Bob? It makes no sense. > > When the customer is assigned an address block out of an ISP's CIDR block > and wants to change ISP's because the old ISP is out of business? IPv6 solves this problem by making my address ranges independent of my ISP/NSP: the address range is sufficiently enlarged, I can get a range assignment of my own. > There is a definite need to be able to flexibly renumber. There's a need for a lot of things which somply aren't being addressed, or less simply, are being purposely ignored. > > de0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > > ----------------------------------------------------***************** > > de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port > > Of course, when you switch Ethernet cards, you are screwed. So: A) Either: Don't switch ethernet cards B) Or: accept that as part of the overhead associated with switching ethernet cards, and make the decision, when you make it, after taking that fact into account > Although I will tend to think that's a better solution than IP address :-) Bleah. Show me a functioning IPv6 network where the variant portion of the address can't be ignored to achieve the same effect as using IP addresses. > The PC isn't suited to this. It has no hardware to do it. And even on > machines where there is hardware to do it, node locked licenses suck. And even where they don't, you can "spoof" the hardware by trapping the user mode programs access to the kernel mode dongle driver, and lying. So even a hardware soloution -- isn't. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:29:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11604 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11527; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA08673; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:27:14 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609252027.PAA08673@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:27:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252019.NAA06603@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 25, 96 01:19:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One of the biggest barriers to IPv6 is the people who are going to cling > > to their IPv4 IP addresses for reasons such as legacy license servers. > > > > (I don't know if that is true or not, but I suspect it is more true than > > not)... I think that was what he was sayin'. > > Then IPv6 is already screwed, isn't it, and a general soloution to > the problem for all systems will solve it for FreeBSD at the same > time. > > This is a non-problem. Bull. If we continue to promote tying licenses, we are participating in creating the problem. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. > > > Flexible renumbering in general? Yes, I'll admit it's a barrier > > > to flexible renumbering. Under what circumstances would you want > > > to allow a license host to "flexibly renumber"? To hide the > > > licenses from Billy-Bob? It makes no sense. > > > > When the customer is assigned an address block out of an ISP's CIDR block > > and wants to change ISP's because the old ISP is out of business? > > IPv6 solves this problem by making my address ranges independent of > my ISP/NSP: the address range is sufficiently enlarged, I can get a > range assignment of my own. I have yet to see a convincing argument that there will be a sufficient advance in router technologies to allow this. Do you understand why CIDR is currently deployed? Because routers can't handle the zillions of individual route advertisements. What you are saying is that somehow magically due to the address space getting bigger, this problem will solve itself. I contend that there will be more discrete networks and that the problem will be worse. > > There is a definite need to be able to flexibly renumber. > > There's a need for a lot of things which somply aren't being addressed, > or less simply, are being purposely ignored. Such as...? > > > de0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > > > ----------------------------------------------------***************** > > > de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port > > > > Of course, when you switch Ethernet cards, you are screwed. > > So: > > A) Either: Don't switch ethernet cards > B) Or: accept that as part of the overhead associated with > switching ethernet cards, and make the decision, when > you make it, after taking that fact into account Yes, which isn't great after a lightning strike fries all of your NIC's because one machine had an internal modem and suffered a wire strike. > > Although I will tend to think that's a better solution than IP address :-) > > Bleah. Show me a functioning IPv6 network where the variant portion > of the address can't be ignored to achieve the same effect as using > IP addresses. I don't see why it should be tied to something as potentially transient as the IP address. > > The PC isn't suited to this. It has no hardware to do it. And even on > > machines where there is hardware to do it, node locked licenses suck. > > And even where they don't, you can "spoof" the hardware by trapping > the user mode programs access to the kernel mode dongle driver, and > lying. So even a hardware soloution -- isn't. Absolutely. Solution? Hm. ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:31:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12259 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12223 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06624; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:25:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252025.NAA06624@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:25:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609251839.MAA12703@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Sep 25, 96 12:39:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One feature does not make a system into SYSV. > > But it also implies that the system can't be considered a 'pure BSD' > system, since it obvious incoroporates various SYSV features, which up > to this point have been the inclusion of 'install -d' and the above > mount changes. That it is an impure system is the point. It is therefore not a valid reference model for "this is BSD, that is not BSD". I suspect the NetBSD inclusion of the "-d" was for reasons of commercial product installation (such as license managers, which work over Garrett's theoretical objections), since they have SunOS ABI compatability in their SPARC port. It follows that they will want the commercial install scripts to operate, even if they aren't strictly BSD-utility-compatible. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:42:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17427 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17382; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA25068; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:41:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:41:18 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609252041.AA25068@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609252019.NAA06603@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199609252002.PAA08640@brasil.moneng.mei.com> <199609252019.NAA06603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > IPv6 solves this problem by making my address ranges independent of > my ISP/NSP: No, wrong. That is precisely what it does not do. The IPv6 addressing plan (as it stands) is designed to provide for provider-oriented addresses /only/. To speak of some other sort of identifier as an ``address'' is in fact nonsense. An address tells you how to get there; it does not identify an object. A good deal of work has gone into developing IP address autoconfiguration for IPv6 in order to keep machines from ever having their address stored on local stable storage. (They still appear in places like DNS servers, of course.) -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:45:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA18865 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from night.primate.wisc.edu (night.primate.wisc.edu [144.92.43.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18759; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by night.primate.wisc.edu; id PAA29154; 8.6.10/41.8; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:44:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199609252044.PAA29154@night.primate.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:44:56 -0500 From: dubois@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sep 25, 1996 10:59:23 -0700 References: <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.44 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > If PCs had some sort of IEEE 802.x address burned into them > > as a sort of serial number, you might be able to do this, but they > > don't, so you can't do this, either. > > I don't know about your machine, but mine has one: > > # dmesg | grep de0 > de0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 > de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > ------------------------------***************** I have a device that changes this value (a GatorBox), and I believe under some versions of Ultrix, they reprogrammed the ethernet address as well (if I remember correctly, it was in conjunction with something to do with DECnet). So although an address is stamped on the card, the system reports a different one. (Don't know why this is done, and it seems to make little sense as it could cause a conflict?) -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu Home page: http://www.primate.wisc.edu/people/dubois Software: http://www.primate.wisc.edu/software From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 13:48:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA20133 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from night.primate.wisc.edu (night.primate.wisc.edu [144.92.43.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20037; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by night.primate.wisc.edu; id PAA29318; 8.6.10/41.8; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:47:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199609252047.PAA29318@night.primate.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:47:20 -0500 From: dubois@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu>; from Garrett Wollman on Sep 25, 1996 14:12:10 -0400 References: <9609251415.AA23310@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <199609251759.KAA06301@phaeton.artisoft.com> <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.44 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Garrett Wollman writes: > > I don't know about your machine, but mine has one: > > > # dmesg | grep de0 > > de0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 > > de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > > I said ``burned into [a PC]''. Moving these things around happens > frequently and is certainly easy to do. Try again. What part of the machine is the ID burned into, in your thinking? My Suns have CPU ID's, and you can't change them with "hostid", but if the CPU goes bad and gets swapped, so does the ID. Or is this acceptable? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu Home page: http://www.primate.wisc.edu/people/dubois Software: http://www.primate.wisc.edu/software From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 14:21:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04425 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04328; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06767; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:18:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252118.OAA06767@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:18:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252027.PAA08673@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 25, 96 03:27:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is a non-problem. > > Bull. If we continue to promote tying licenses, we are participating > in creating the problem. You are either part of the problem or part > of the solution. "Yes or no: have you stopped beating children?" You might as well argue that "it's the US farmer's fault for not distributing the food properly that causes famine in Ethiopia" This is the fundamental logical flaw, called "the law of the excluded middle" which you get when you use silly Aristotilian means, which by their formulation are only amenable to binary answers. This is neither a part of a problem NOR a part of the soloution; it is a perpetuation of a problematic situation for which we admit there is no resonable soloution (or we would be discussing the soloution rather than the acceptability of perpetuating the situation). > > IPv6 solves this problem by making my address ranges independent of > > my ISP/NSP: the address range is sufficiently enlarged, I can get a > > range assignment of my own. > > I have yet to see a convincing argument that there will be a sufficient > advance in router technologies to allow this. > > Do you understand why CIDR is currently deployed? Because routers can't > handle the zillions of individual route advertisements. I understand that IPv6 includes a variant prefixing mechanism which allows address space addignment to perpetuate CIDR, and that when using this mechanism, you can not include the prefix into you "unique host ID", and thereby resolve the supposed "problem" caused by the variant portion of the address space and/or CIDR requirements. CIDR itself is a piece of crap soloution to allow perpetuation of the idea that a service and a host share an identity, and therefore there is no such thing as an equivalent for a server which exports a connection oriented service of any kind. Service anonymity, if it were implemented this way, could similarly resolve the route congestion problem by localizing service references to any given network geometry, and offloading the majority of heavy traffic from the backbones. Of course, if you did this, the "pipe" would be completely commoditized, and all these phone companies who have been crawling over each others boies to "win" the ability to provide the pipes would lose their investment in that battle. C'est La Guerre. > What you are saying is that somehow magically due to the address space > getting bigger, this problem will solve itself. No, I'm saying the problem is solvable using the CIDR abomination in the prefix domain Garrett has already identified without resorting to the NSP/ISP "owning" the address space. Consider an address space divided as: [ A ][ B ][ C ] Where: (A) Variant range for CIDR convenience, assigned per NSP/ISP based on locality in the physical network topology (B) Address space uniquifier for a given subscriber, independent of network topology (C) Addreses of machines in the subscriber region. In a switch from NSP-to-NSP, only the (A) range changes; the (B) range prevents (C) range collisions in the [ A ][ C ] space descriptor. Thus we can (to our stupidity's content) perpertuate CIDR "efficiently" and "conveniently", abomination though it is. > I contend that there will be more discrete networks and that the problem > will be worse. I contend that this is purely a management issue, which must be resolved by a purely management-based resoloution process. Even if we take 6 bytes and give them the same tuples as the card hardware address, that leaves 10 bytes for NSP/gemoetry identification and subscriber identification. > > > There is a definite need to be able to flexibly renumber. > > > > There's a need for a lot of things which somply aren't being addressed, > > or less simply, are being purposely ignored. > > Such as...? The fact that CIDR is necessitated by the stupid host/service identity mechanism, and DNS "rotor" lists are not a good soloution to the problem of cluster identification, and are an even worse soloution to the problem of load balancing over time. > > > Of course, when you switch Ethernet cards, you are screwed. > > > > So: > > > > A) Either: Don't switch ethernet cards > > B) Or: accept that as part of the overhead associated with > > switching ethernet cards, and make the decision, when > > you make it, after taking that fact into account > > Yes, which isn't great after a lightning strike fries all of your NIC's > because one machine had an internal modem and suffered a wire strike. This is the universe's way of teching you to prevent these situations before they arise. The problem is not that the fry occurred, but that you allowed the situation to arise whereby a fry was possible in the first place. In simplest terms, being more stupid costs more money. It is an evolutionary pressure which disincents stupidity. We should raise such things to the status of *law* instead of decrying them! Luckiliy, the universe has done this for us in this particular case... > > > Although I will tend to think that's a better solution than IP address :-) > > > > Bleah. Show me a functioning IPv6 network where the variant portion > > of the address can't be ignored to achieve the same effect as using > > IP addresses. > > I don't see why it should be tied to something as potentially transient as > the IP address. Because IP address is less transient than other interfaces. Because you can not change your IP address on a whim because there is other software on the same side of the kernel "spoofability" barrier for the interface for getting the IP address, on which your system is dependent for continuing functionality. For IPv6, substitute "[ B ][ C]" for "IP address" and you get equivalent results. ...not because it is impossible to spoof, but because it is harder to spoof than other approaches. > > And even where they don't, you can "spoof" the hardware by trapping > > the user mode programs access to the kernel mode dongle driver, and > > lying. So even a hardware soloution -- isn't. > > Absolutely. > > Solution? Hm. There is none. What we are looking for is "good enough", not perfect. Once we admit this fact to ourselves, then we need a mechanism whereby we can enforce a probability "trade off" that is acceptable to vendors who want to sell by license. Any other soloution fails to promote vendors porting to the platform. Again, I point out that many PC UNIX and UNIX-clone OS's *HAVE* functioning ("good enough") license management software. There has been no good reason put forward for preventing FreeBSD from having the same services available. It is up to the software vendors, not us, to define "good enough". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 14:23:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04933 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04839; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06792; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:20:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252120.OAA06792@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:20:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9609252041.AA25068@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Sep 25, 96 04:41:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > IPv6 solves this problem by making my address ranges independent of > > my ISP/NSP: > > No, wrong. That is precisely what it does not do. The IPv6 > addressing plan (as it stands) is designed to provide for > provider-oriented addresses /only/. To speak of some other sort of > identifier as an ``address'' is in fact nonsense. An address tells > you how to get there; it does not identify an object. Sounds like I can no longer have a transiently connected subnet. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 14:26:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA06190 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06108; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA06806; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:24:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252124.OAA06806@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: dubois@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:24:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252044.PAA29154@night.primate.wisc.edu> from "Paul DuBois" at Sep 25, 96 03:44:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > de0: Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 > > --------------------------***************** > > I have a device that changes this value (a GatorBox), and I believe > under some versions of Ultrix, they reprogrammed the ethernet > address as well (if I remember correctly, it was in conjunction > with something to do with DECnet). So although an address is > stamped on the card, the system reports a different one. (Don't > know why this is done, and it seems to make little sense as it > could cause a conflict?) LANalyzer (Excellan) ethernet cards can do this. Any router which can route DECNet can do this. Any Sun machine with a LANCE chipset can do this. Typically, it's done to allow the ethernet address to be set to the DECNet node address. Routers had to do it to "bridge" DECNet "segments", which were non-outable in olver versions of the DECNet protocol. NetBEUI has similar constraints. Yes, this value is spoofable. This value is, in fact, *more* spoofable than an IP address, since if I use the ifconfig interface to get the IP address, and I hack the interface to spoof the license manager, I break my networking because it will also spoof ifconfig (and netsta -i, etc.). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 14:28:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA07176 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07100; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA12100; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:26:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Garrett Wollman cc: Terry Lambert , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:41:18 EDT." <9609252041.AA25068@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:26:48 -0700 Message-ID: <12098.843686808@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know what you guys are all arguing about anyway. Location based license managers are EVIL, they are NOT the future (just pick up a copy of Purify or ObjectCenter sometime to see where it's going instead) and no ISV in their right minds or with even the vaguest understanding of the concept of networking should be going with LM technology that cares one whit where a user is sitting. All you care about is the number of simultaneous accesses you get, and any node in the network should be able to "check out" a license if you've gone with the appropriate technology. I and most other people I know vote with our wallets. I *will not purchase* or recommend for purchase any package which does location based license management. Just won't do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 15:58:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21884 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21643; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v62tW-00092LC; Wed, 25 Sep 96 15:57 PDT Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA23107; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:50:58 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199609252250.SAA23107@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609251823.LAA06357@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 25, 96 11:23:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Terry Lambert had to walk into mine and say: > > Think hard about this. It's not as easy as it may first appear. With > > PCs, you can swap out practically all the hardware, particularly ethernet > > cards, so trying to find a hardware ID value that doesn't change is a > > real challenge. > > > > Another problem with using ethernet addresses is that you need to > > grovel around in /dev/kmem in order to get them. This would require your > > executable to be setgid kmem in order to work. > > No. If you use *IP* address, you don't have this problem. No, you have an even worse problem, which is that using an IP address as a hostid won't work worth a damn, and any company that tries to get away with this will get laughed out of the business. You're assuming (I think) a unique IP address for all machines, which you're not allowed to do. Some people have machines that aren't attached to the internet and therefore have fictitious IPs. It may also be that someone has configured a bunch of standalone machines all with the same IP address (10.0.0.1, or whatever). In this case, the license key will work on all these machines, which is probably not what you want. There's also people who use dialup SLIP/PPP for their network access who may get a different IP address assigned to them each time they dial in to their ISP. So far I've only seem an IP address based licensing scheme once, for a product called Decaase (some mechanical modeling package, I think), and they only did it by accident: they assumed that the 'hostid' command in SGI IRIX did the same thing as the 'hostid' command in SunOS, and they were wrong. (The 'hostid' command in IRIX returns the system IP address (presumeably of the first available interface) in hex.) Turned out they had their own little home-brewed licensing scheme and the company only had one SGI Indy on which to test the software, hence they never made the connection. > In point of fact, there was a recent discussion on the SCO and Linux > ABI front that determined that you could get ethernet hardware addresses > for any given real ethernet interface using one of the ABI routines. > So you can forget about having to grovel kmem. Well we can read the system hostid via sysctl() (or via gethostid(), which probably just calls sysctl()); the problem is that it's never set. It would be simpler just to have the kernel set the hostid based on the MAC address of the primary interface (if there is one). The problem is that then any idiot (well, any idiot with root privs) can use sysctl to change the hostid to anything he wants. Also, just supposing you have a guy with a machine that -- horror or horrors -- has no network interface (no ethernet, no ATM, no nuthin'). Whatcha gonna do then? Not a problem for workstations since they all come (well, most all) with a network interface of some sort, but that's not strictly true of PCs. > I specifically referenced IP addresses in my discussion because: And I'm specifically telling you that you plain can't use IP addresses, period, but... > 1) ifconfig will fail to operate if you hack the interface > it uses so that it lies about IP address to your license > daemon. So then I'll just hack ifconfig too. I've got the sources to everything, remember? Alternatively: ever see the 'twiddle with your hostid' package for SunOS/Solaris that's floating around? There are tricks there not only to change your hostid on a _per_ _process_ basis, you can also fake up IP addresses on a per process basis too. This involves some specially constructed loadable kernel modules. > 2) Your network will fail to operate if two machines are given > the same IP address; they won't both work at the same time; > it depends on who gets into what ARP table when, and even > then, it won't necessarily be functional. What if they're standalone machines. There are still plenty of those in the world: you are not allowed to say that every computer is networked together. (Of course if we're talking about licensing an application that depends on access to a network -- like a network performance monitor -- then it's a whole other story. But for things like office packages (word processor, spreadsheets, etc...), CAD, modelling or graphics things, network access is not strictly necessary.) > 3) You could safely hack the ethernet address return interface > and no one would be the wiser because no system software > components really depends on it. If you had a standalone machine or your own private network, you could change your IP address at the drop of a hat too. > 4) LANCE interfaces on DEC and Sun harware can have their address > reprogrammed. This is practically true of any ethernet card > capable of supporting DECNet or DECNet bridging/routing. The > Novell/Excellan "LANalyzer" card is one example of a PC card > which can do this. IP addresses are not carved in stone either. > 5) The ethernet address (as opposed to the IP address) is a 48 > bit value, and therefore unsuitable for use by hostid. Tell that to SGI. For the smaller machines (Indigo2, Indy, desktop Challenges), they use the last 32 bits of the ethernet address as the hostid. For the larger machines -- Onyxes, big Challenges -- they use a different scheme because the ethernet hardware is part of the IO4 board, which can be replaced. > 6) Using the IP address for the hostid return is traditional. Not on SunOS/Slowlaris it isn't. > > I also wanted to try to find a way around the awful flaw in FLEXlm that > > makes it practically worthless. It sort of worked, but I got bored with > > it after a while and let it languish. > > Heh. I forgot about that one. Yeah, that's a bit of a problem, isn't > it? I remember the day we found out about it; we were using Framemaker. Yeah, Framemaker's licensing scheme has the same flaw. Of course it also uses license passwords that are only 6 characters long. :) Actually, Framemaker's licensing scheme is kind of interesting. It doesn't depend on any hostid information at all (for floating licenses anyway; I've never had to configure a standalone/nodelocked system before). They also use RPC. When the daemon starts, it broadcasts looking for other daemons on the network that may be serving licenses for the same product and with the same license password. So if you have a server running on machine A, and you start another instance of the server on machine B using the same license file, the server on machine B will detect the presence of the server on machine A and the two server process will conspire to keep the number of available licenses constant. So, in effect, if you have a license that authorizes you to run, say, ten concurrent instances of Framemaker, you can run as many instances of the fm_fls license server on your network as you please (using the same license file) and you'll still only be able to run ten concurrent instances of Framemaker. This is 'sort of' using IP addresses, except the actual address values don't matter, which is neat because you can change the IP address of one of the license servers (or even replace it entirely) and everything will still work. This assumes, however, that all your machines are all connected on one network. If you have ten standalone machines, you can buy a single user floating license and then install the license server on each machine. Since they can't talk to each other, there's no way for them to tell if the same license password is being used somewhere else. Same thing applies to ten machines networked together in isolated groups. Each group could have its own license server. Also, you might be able to use the same license file on two networks which are connected but which are not within broadcast range of each other. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "If you're ever in trouble, go to the CTR. Ask for Bill. He will help you." ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 16:33:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06917 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06782; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA06982; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:29:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252329.QAA06982@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:29:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, terry@lambert.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12098.843686808@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 25, 96 02:26:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't know what you guys are all arguing about anyway. Location > based license managers are EVIL, they are NOT the future (just pick up > a copy of Purify or ObjectCenter sometime to see where it's going > instead) and no ISV in their right minds or with even the vaguest > understanding of the concept of networking should be going with LM > technology that cares one whit where a user is sitting. All you care > about is the number of simultaneous accesses you get, and any node in > the network should be able to "check out" a license if you've gone > with the appropriate technology. There is inherent locality associated with the license server. I can reuse a license in your scenario if I can make equiavelent servers -- the same license may be checked out from both simultaneously. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 16:58:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA17918 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17584; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA07038; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:56:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609252356.QAA07038@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:56:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252250.SAA23107@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at Sep 25, 96 06:50:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, you have an even worse problem, which is that using an IP address > as a hostid won't work worth a damn, and any company that tries to get > away with this will get laughed out of the business. > > You're assuming (I think) a unique IP address for all machines, which > you're not allowed to do. Some people have machines that aren't attached > to the internet and therefore have fictitious IPs. It may also be that > someone has configured a bunch of standalone machines all with the same > IP address (10.0.0.1, or whatever). In this case, the license key will > work on all these machines, which is probably not what you want. There's > also people who use dialup SLIP/PPP for their network access who may > get a different IP address assigned to them each time they dial in to > their ISP. Unless you plan on incorporating the host ID in the vendor supplied key (a stupid idea, if licences are transferrable to licensees), then it is irrelevent that the license could be reused on a standalone box. Any license can be reused on a standalone box. > > In point of fact, there was a recent discussion on the SCO and Linux > > ABI front that determined that you could get ethernet hardware addresses > > for any given real ethernet interface using one of the ABI routines. > > So you can forget about having to grovel kmem. > > Well we can read the system hostid via sysctl() (or via gethostid(), > which probably just calls sysctl()); the problem is that it's never > set. It would be simpler just to have the kernel set the hostid > based on the MAC address of the primary interface (if there is one). > The problem is that then any idiot (well, any idiot with root privs) > can use sysctl to change the hostid to anything he wants. Or any idiot with sources can adulterate the gethostid() interface to return whater is convenient for it to return to enable spoofing of the license manager. The only system interface which returns an even somewhat unique ID that is even somewhat difficult to spoof is the ifconfig data interface. > Also, just supposing you have a guy with a machine that -- horror or > horrors -- has no network interface (no ethernet, no ATM, no nuthin'). > Whatcha gonna do then? Not a problem for workstations since they all > come (well, most all) with a network interface of some sort, but that's > not strictly true of PCs. Sell him the non-network version of the product? > Alternatively: ever see the 'twiddle with your hostid' package for > SunOS/Solaris that's floating around? There are tricks there not only to > change your hostid on a _per_ _process_ basis, you can also fake up IP > addresses on a per process basis too. This involves some specially > constructed loadable kernel modules. The idea is to make the id unique *for the license server*. We care less if the id isn't unique for client machines. Even then, I've already admitted that it's hackable. *ANYTHING* is hackable. Hell, a PGP dongle is hackable, if I'm willing to build muxing hardware and/or RPC "dongle services" because I happen to have kernel source. Obviously, the point is "good enough to discourage the casual pirate", not "software enforcement of contracts". > What if they're standalone machines. Then they don't need a license manager in software. They need an SPA audit, o they are unenforcible. > > 3) You could safely hack the ethernet address return interface > > and no one would be the wiser because no system software > > components really depends on it. > > If you had a standalone machine or your own private network, you could > change your IP address at the drop of a hat too. Yes, you could. What is your point? I mean, I could go on and on with this whole "what if" scenario: "What if they hacked the IP?" "Don't let the software and the license server run on the same IP." "What if they are on a standalone machine?" "Use an RSA signing dongle." "What if they build an RPC system to export the dongle signing services over the net?" "Issue keys with the network address included in the hash calcualtion." "What if winged monkeys flew out my butt?" "Call Dorthy and Toto and use duct tape as a workaround." etc. The "license/security" game always boils down to: "We publishers are smarter than you crackers" "We crackers are smarter than you publishers" "No you're not" "Yes, we are" "Are not" "Are too" "Ut-uh" "Uh-huh" "Ut-uh" "Uh-huh" ... The best you can hope for is to reasonably discourage people who look at issues of piracy as cost-benefit calculations, and raise the cost as high as you can raise it. In that situation, license managers are useful. The do not have to "perfectly" solve the piracy problem to be useful. It matters only that they are useful. > This is 'sort of' using IP addresses, except > the actual address values don't matter, which is neat because you can > change the IP address of one of the license servers (or even replace > it entirely) and everything will still work. You can still hack it, however, and that's the argument people keep trying to use against me. Only I don't care if it can be hacked, only the per-product probability that it will be hacked. Hell, you can hack FrameMaker licenses with "mv". Let's se you remove *that* hole -- what good's a system without "mv"? > This assumes, however, that all your machines are all connected on one > network. If you have ten standalone machines, you can buy a single user > floating license and then install the license server on each machine. Since > they can't talk to each other, there's no way for them to tell if the > same license password is being used somewhere else. Same thing applies to > ten machines networked together in isolated groups. Each group could have > its own license server. Also, you might be able to use the same license > file on two networks which are connected but which are not within broadcast > range of each other. The point being that license managers should not be used because of this? I don't buy that. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 16:58:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA17775 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17572; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA07460; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609252358.QAA07460@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman), jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:08:21 PDT." <199609252008.NAA06581@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:58:05 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > o If your topology prefix is subject to change, don't include >> > it. It's just "one more damn thing" to push you over the >> > allowed 32 bit limit anyway. >> >> What ``allowed 32 bit limit''? > >This one: > >% man hostid >GETHOSTID(3) UNIX Programmer's Manual GETHOSTID(3) Right, and you left out the good part: BUGS 32 bits for the identifier is too small. HISTORY The gethostid() and sethostid() syscalls appeared in 4.2BSD and were dropped in 4.4BSD. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 17:12:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA25433 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25353; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA07106; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:10:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609260010.RAA07106@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:10:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199609252358.QAA07460@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Sep 25, 96 04:58:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >% man hostid > >GETHOSTID(3) UNIX Programmer's Manual GETHOSTID(3) > > Right, and you left out the good part: > > > BUGS > 32 bits for the identifier is too small. > > HISTORY > The gethostid() and sethostid() syscalls appeared in 4.2BSD and were > dropped in 4.4BSD. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Actually, that *is* a good part. It means that the interface used by ifconfig to get the network address really is the best choice for a unique system ID. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 17:23:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03349 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02850; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA00378 (5.65c/IDA-1.5); Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:20:59 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA23198; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:02:10 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199609260002.UAA23198@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: stesin@gu.net, ulf@lamb.net, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609252002.NAA06541@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 25, 96 01:02:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Terry Lambert had to walk into mine and say: > > Yea, so, I put a third box called a dummy router/NAT between them > > and make them talk. Novell Netware servers can be fooled into > > operating this way (thats how I do server to server upgrades of > > Netware, just put a router between them and spoof a few things, > > works great, and no inplace upgrade risk, and no need for a second > > license.) > > All software soloutions *can* be spoofed. The Flex/LM spoof is trivial, > and can be easily using a shell script with a sleep delay and a > background job. I'm not sure what you're on about here. FLEXlm has a very serious fundamental flaw, but it's not something you can exploit with just a shell script. But that's neither here nor there. > Other than forcing the PC to be redesigned (in which case, I say > getting rid of ISA entirely is a more worthy goal than installing > serial numbers, since I can trap the memory references and lie about > those too), there's really no fix. Yes! Exactly! So let's all throw our licensing software in the trash and forget about the whole thing! (Algright, so I thinking wishfully out loud. What do you want from me: I'm a sysadmin; if I have to install one more licensed product, I'll scream.) > Yet Linux, SCO, Solaris, and UnixWare all have license manager > software, and you guys insisting on ethnic purity inre: the > network interface is succeeding in doing nothing other than making > FreeBSD a less attractive commercial platform. Solaris/x86 doesn't use the network addresses at all. It does something much worse: when you install it, it concocts a hostid value and writes it onto your disk somewhere (not within a filesystem). This means that if your disk ever fails and you reinstall it, you'll end up with a different hostid and all your licenses will be crap. Think about it for a minute: one of the things Sun licenses is their C compiler. If they used IP addresses for the hostid, there'd be nothing to stop someone from bying a room full of _NON_ _NETWORKED_ PCs, installing Solaris/x86 on them, buying one C compiler license and loading it on all the machines. If the machines were not networked together, you could assign them all the same IP address and the same license codes would work on all of them. Sun would not want you to do this since they'd lose a ton of money: they'd much rather you purchased licenses for all the machines. But there'd be no way for them to enforce this restriction if they used the IP address as a machine ID, so they DON'T BLOODY DO THAT! I don't know what they did for SCO, Linux or UnixWare. Having read the FLEXlm user's manual, I do know that for Windoze, they do something just as evil as Sun does with Solaris/x86: they use the 'serial number' that's created when you format your disk. Again, if you toast your disk and reinstall, your 'serial number' will change, and your licenses will be useless. However, they also offer you a choice to use some other form of system identification, either using a dongle or a MAC address from a network card. > Unless that's your ultimate goal, it seems pretty stupid to put > forth arguments against instead of arguments for. Licensing software is pretty stupid in general, but that hasn't stopped vendors from using it. So far, the only marginally clever system I've ever encountered is (as I described in a previous message) is the one used with Framemaker. They don't use any machine identification at all. You can run the license server on any host, but it will only let you check out as many licenses as are allowed by the license file. If you try to run another instance of the server with the same license file (on some other host), the second server will automatically synchronize with the first so that you'll still only have as many licenses available as the your license file allows. You get redundancy and the ability to run the servers on any hosts you want. Unfortunately, this system breaks down where standalone machines are involved: if I have many stabdalone machines, I can install a server process on each one, and there'd be no way for them to synchronize with each other since they couldn't communicate. I can't think of a compromise here offhand. Maybe someone else can think of something. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "If you're ever in trouble, go to the CTR. Ask for Bill. He will help you." ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 17:30:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09253 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09208 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA26597 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609260030.UAA26597@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Deleted /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there an XFree86 Beta G compiled against -current that doesn't need /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0? My present recourse is ... 55 * * * * [ -f /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 ] || \ ln -s /usr/lib/libfakegnumalloc.so.2.0 /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 I'd fix the Makefile but CTM chokes if checksums don't match. Enough disk space for CVS and/or compiling my own XFree86 is not in sight either. Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 18:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA02752 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA02677 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v64wE-0001ZGC; Wed, 25 Sep 96 18:08 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: current@freebsd.org Subject: /usr/src/contrib SUP troubles... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, after a week of trying "Slackware 96" (and realizing all over again why I left Linux :-), I'm back and running FreeBSD-current. This time around, I installed 2.1.5-RELEASE from the CD-ROM, and am using SUP to get the source code. I have one problem that is _really_ starting to bug me. Three times today, I've resupped (the latest time because a typo in malloc.c killed my make world), and each time it ends up redownloading _huge_ chunks of /usr/src/contrib (which, by the way, isn't in the standard-supfile on freefall yet), including bind, cvs, and gcc. Each time the date stamp is changing, so I can only conclude somebody is fiddling with the datestamps in the tree. Please stop it!! I'm using sup4.FreeBSD.org (burka.rdy.com) by the way. -- Jake From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 19:13:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA06288 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06024; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04019; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:58:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:58:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: Terry Lambert cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , stesin@gu.net, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609252002.NAA06541@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > [SNIP] > Yet Linux, SCO, Solaris, and UnixWare all have license manager > software, and you guys insisting on ethnic purity inre: the > network interface is succeeding in doing nothing other than making > FreeBSD a less attractive commercial platform. > > Unless that's your ultimate goal, it seems pretty stupid to put > forth arguments against instead of arguments for. I agree, and though I'm new to the FreeBSD / Unix world, it's impossible as a young programmer not to be scared by Microsoft's bid to rule the networking world and eliminate Unix -- and they will succceed unless viable *commercial* alternatives exist. I love my FreeBSD box more than any other OS I've ever used, and I'd love nothing more than to be able to Work on FreeBSD projects instead of NT. But right now FreeBSD doesn't pay, cause it's not accepted in the commercial world, and that's where the jobs and money comes from. Any move to make FreeBSD more mainstream in the commercial world I support - it's the best OS, and it should be the OS I program on. Sure, I hate license managers too, but they are a part of the real world and I think the whole "good enough" policy Terry mentioned makes perfect sense. We might not be able to create a "perfect" LM on a PC, but I just want anything that works reasonably well. Anything to enable me to program on FreeBSD and get paid at the same time :-) cya, -Mark ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 19:34:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA16498 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16383; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA12853; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:32:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:29:34 PDT." <199609252329.QAA06982@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:32:06 -0700 Message-ID: <12851.843705126@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is inherent locality associated with the license server. > > I can reuse a license in your scenario if I can make equiavelent > servers -- the same license may be checked out from both simultaneously. Piddle and tosh. It's an easy thing to make a license manager check for duplicates and either work cooperatively or shut down again. This also assumes that your LM also doesn't require an admin password on startup - another way of making sure unauthorized types don't start their own copies. This is a non-problem. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 19:35:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA16970 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16625; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.2]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07329; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" X-Sender: ejs@harlie To: Terry Lambert cc: Andrew Stesin , rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251748.KAA06278@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > What can be thought to become a unique FreeBSD machine ID, anyway? > Network address. Really. Which one? Every machine I use has at least two, not counting loopback. Not to mention the fact that some of these addresses change, no control of my own. The powers that be decide that everyone is going to use their phone extension as the host address, where before everyone was broken down by department. Not saying not to do it, but there's quite a few things you need to keep in mind. If you use the IP address of my ethernet card, congrats, you just bound to a 192.168 address, and anyone that has $20 for a cheap ethernet card, or a spare tun device if your program isn't careful, can pirate the software. If you force me to use real IP addresses, I can't use it at all at work, where I'm behind a firewall, with only 192.168 addresses. For that matter, I've had my ppp address change on me with little notice. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 20:04:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00601 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA00555 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09361; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:02:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@eel.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:02:41 -0500 To: "Robert Rutter" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Deleted /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Is there an XFree86 Beta G compiled against -current that doesn't need >/usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0? > >My present recourse is ... > >55 * * * * [ -f /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 ] || \ > ln -s /usr/lib/libfakegnumalloc.so.2.0 /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 > >I'd fix the Makefile but CTM chokes if checksums don't match. Enough >disk space for CVS and/or compiling my own XFree86 is not in sight either. What you need to do is: 1) Remove the source from /usr/src and put it someplace that you won't want to change it. I use /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/..... 2) Use lndir to make a clone of the source tree in /usr/src 3) Modify whatever files you wish by replacing the symbolic link with your modified file. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 20:50:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA25590 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA25442; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA13102; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:48:03 -0700 (PDT) To: Mark Mayo cc: Terry Lambert , "Rodney W. Grimes" , stesin@gu.net, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, serious@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:58:23 EDT." Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:48:02 -0700 Message-ID: <13100.843709682@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > viable *commercial* alternatives exist. I love my FreeBSD box more than > any other OS I've ever used, and I'd love nothing more than to be able to > Work on FreeBSD projects instead of NT. But right now FreeBSD doesn't pay, > cause it's not accepted in the commercial world, and that's where the jobs > and money comes from. Actually, that's not entirely true. I know of at least 4 open positions for FreeBSD programmers, if they'd only be willing to come out of the woodwork. AFAIK, every FreeBSD developer who actually wants a job has pretty much got one now, and those who aren't employed direcly in some FreeBSD related enterprise are generally constrained from doing so only by being unwilling to change locations. Most companies in the San Francisco Bay Area, for example, will currently be happy to welcome any number of competent engineers - there is a serious shortage of them around here! Resumes to me, please. :-) Jordan P.S. There's a "serious@freeBSD.org" mailing list? Really?! :-) Huh. I wonder when *that* got added! From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 22:23:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07778 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07714; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13019; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609252001.OAA13019@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman), jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-Reply-To: <199609251830.LAA06376@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <9609251812.AA25774@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <199609251830.LAA06376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ ... lots of argument on "why it is impossible" ... ] > > Surprising that SCO, Sun, and Linux (all PC OS's) all have working > versions of Flex/LM and other license management software, what > with it being impossible and all... And all of them are 'poor' implementations that *require* you to call them up if you change hostname and/or IP address. This *isn't* a solution IMHO. Like you said, we're trying to do things better than the commercial world. I work with Flex/LM on the Sun, and it *sucks*. Purify used to use it, and they gave up due to consumer complaints and now use an 'honor' system which seems to work well for them. (It also doesn't hurt that their product works so darn well. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 23:10:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09761 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09706 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15163 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324A1DAE.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:07:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: BLOAT in minimal programs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted to write a minimal footprint program that would be as tiny as possible.. it seems impossible.. here is the symbol list for this statically linked program. it uses NO stdio functions. it assings a few integer variables calls a syscall and exits. It's over 38K long! 00001020 F /usr/lib/scrt0.o 00001020 T start 00001090 t ___gnu_compiled_c 00001090 t gcc2_compiled. 00001090 F thrashd.o 0000109c T _main 000010c0 T ___do_global_dtors IT'S NOT C++! 000010c0 F __main.o 000010e8 T ___do_global_ctors 00001134 T ___main 00001160 T _atexit 00001160 F _exit.o 00001160 F atexit.o 000011d0 F malloc.o 000012c4 T _malloc_dump 0000191c T _malloc_pages 00001e1c T _malloc 00001e90 T _free 0000224c T _realloc 00002410 T _mmap 00002410 F mmap.o 00002440 F brk.o 00002470 T __brk 00002474 T _brk 00002489 t ok 000024a7 t err 000024b0 F sbrk.o 000024e4 T _sbrk 0000250f t back 00002510 t err 00002520 F munmap.o 00002528 T _munmap 00002540 F memset.o 00002578 T _memset 000025c0 T ___findenv 000025c0 F getenv.o 00002650 T _getenv 000026e0 T _fprintf 000026e0 F fprintf.o 00002700 F vfprintf.o 00002a24 T _vfprintf 00004030 T ___sfvwrite 00004030 F fvwrite.o 000042d0 T ___umoddi3 000042d0 F umoddi3.o 00004300 T ___udivdi3 00004300 F udivdi3.o 00004320 T ___moddi3 00004320 F moddi3.o 000043a0 T ___divdi3 000043a0 F divdi3.o 00004420 F isinf.o 00004454 T _isnan 00004480 T _isinf 000044b0 F memmove.o 000044e8 T _memcpy 000044e8 T _memmove 00004540 F memchr.o 00004578 T _memchr 000045a0 T _abort 000045a0 F abort.o 00004600 T ___swsetup 00004600 F wsetup.o 000046a0 T ___smakebuf 000046a0 F makebuf.o 00004728 T ___swhatbuf 000047c0 F findfp.o 0000481c T ___sfp 000048c0 T _f_prealloc 000048f8 T __cleanup 00004908 T ___sinit 00004930 T _fflush 00004930 F fflush.o 00004968 T ___sflush 000049d0 F qdivrem.o 00004a40 T ___qdivrem 00004ec0 T _signal 00004ec0 F signal.o 00004f20 T _isatty 00004f20 F isatty.o 00004f40 F sigaction.o 00004f48 T _sigaction 00004f60 F kill.o 00004f68 T _kill 00004f80 F getpid.o 00004f88 T _getpid 00004fa0 F getdtablesize.o 00004fa8 T _getdtablesize 00004fc0 F fstat.o 00004fc8 T _fstat 00004fe0 F sigprocmask.o 00005019 t err 00005020 T _sigprocmask 00005053 t out 00005060 T _exit 00005060 F exit.o 000050a0 T ___sread 000050a0 F stdio.o 000050e0 T ___swrite 0000511c T ___sseek 00005168 T ___sclose 00005180 T __fwalk 00005180 F fwalk.o 000051d0 T _tcgetattr 000051d0 F termios.o 000051e8 T _tcsetattr 00005264 T _tcsetpgrp 00005284 T _tcgetpgrp 000052ac T _cfgetospeed 000052b8 T _cfgetispeed 000052c4 T _cfsetospeed 000052d4 T _cfsetispeed 000052e4 T _cfsetspeed 000052f8 T _cfmakeraw 0000532c T _tcsendbreak 0000538c T _tcdrain 000053a0 T _tcflush 0000540c T _tcflow 000054b0 T __exit 000054b0 F _exit.o 000054c0 F write.o 000054c8 T _write 000054e0 F select.o 000054e8 T _select 00005500 F read.o 00005508 T _read 00005520 F ioctl.o 00005528 T _ioctl 00005540 F close.o 00005548 T _close 00005560 T _lseek 00005560 F lseek.o 00005590 F __syscall.o 00005598 T ___syscall 000055b0 F cerror.o 000055e4 T cerror 00005600 F strtod.o 000060c8 T _strtod 00006e14 T ___dtoa 00007ba0 T ____runetype 00007ba0 F infinity.o 00007ba0 F runetype.o 00007bb0 T __none_init 00007bb0 F none.o 00007bb0 F table.o 00007bd8 T __none_sgetrune 00007c08 T __none_sputrune 00007c40 T _etext 00008000 D ___progname 00008010 D _interval 00008014 D _logfile 00008020 D __exit_dummy_ref 00008030 D __exit_dummy_decl 00008040 D minbrk 00008044 D curbrk 0000807c D ___sF 00008184 D ___sglue 000082c0 D ___infinity 000082d0 D __DefaultRuneLocale 00008f24 D __CurrentRuneLocale 00008f28 D ___mb_cur_max 00008f30 D _edata 00009684 B ___cleanup 00009688 B ___DTOR_LIST__ 00009690 B ___CTOR_LIST__ 00009698 B ___sdidinit 0000969c B _namebuf 0000979c B __sigintr 000097a0 B _linebuf 00009ba0 B ___atexit 00009ba4 B _environ 00009ba8 B _errno 00009bac B _direntbuf 0000bb54 B _end THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! why oh why did I get malloc? vfprintf? __CurrentRuneLocale ? hell it doesn't even contain a STRING let alone a default nationality! etc.etc. there has got to be a better way! about the only thing I want is errno and some syscalls. julian From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 23:19:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA16664 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16639 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00219; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609260620.XAA00219@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:07:42 PDT." <324A1DAE.41C67EA6@whistle.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:50 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... >THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! >I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! >why oh why did I get malloc? Because atexit() uses it to remember exit callouts (see crt0.c). >vfprintf? >__CurrentRuneLocale ? >hell it doesn't even contain a STRING let alone a default nationality! I think this is all because malloc (or something in crt0.c) calls a stdio funtion like printf either directly or indirectly via a perror() or equivilent. Of course Runes comes in because of vfprintf, etc, etc. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 23:34:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA29023 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA28988 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15413; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324A22F6.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:30:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs References: <199609260620.XAA00219@root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > > ... > >THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! > >I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! > >why oh why did I get malloc? > > Because atexit() uses it to remember exit callouts (see crt0.c). so why isn't atexit in libc? I certainly didn't call it.. of course I haven't checked.. it might well be there.. > > >vfprintf? > >__CurrentRuneLocale ? > >hell it doesn't even contain a STRING let alone a default nationality! > > I think this is all because malloc (or something in crt0.c) calls a stdio > funtion like printf either directly or indirectly via a perror() or equivilent. > Of course Runes comes in because of vfprintf, etc, etc. so do we have a way of telling cc to link with a more sensible crt0? surely we can do something.. howabout split crt0.. ? > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Wed Sep 25 23:55:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13742 for current-outgoing; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13697 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00299; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609260657.XAA00299@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:30:14 PDT." <324A22F6.167EB0E7@whistle.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:57:19 -0700 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >David Greenman wrote: >> >> ... >> >THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! >> >I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! >> >why oh why did I get malloc? >> >> Because atexit() uses it to remember exit callouts (see crt0.c). >so why isn't atexit in libc? It is. >I certainly didn't call it.. >of course I haven't checked.. it might well be there.. Sorry, I meant it was called from crt0.c. Actually, if you're building your program static the call shouldn't be made if things are being built using scrt0.o like they are supposed to be (the call to atexit() is in crt0 is not made for the !MCRT0 && !DYNAMIC case). >> >vfprintf? >> >__CurrentRuneLocale ? >> >hell it doesn't even contain a STRING let alone a default nationality! >> >> I think this is all because malloc (or something in crt0.c) calls a stdio >> funtion like printf either directly or indirectly via a perror() or equivilent. >> Of course Runes comes in because of vfprintf, etc, etc. > > >so do we have a way of telling cc to link with a more sensible crt0? >surely we can do something.. We already do. Perhaps the calls are coming from somewhere else... -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 00:21:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA01116 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00871; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA14747; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:40:47 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199609260710.QAA14747@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (Bill Paul) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:40:47 +0930 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, ulf@Lamb.net, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, serious@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609260002.UAA23198@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "Bill Paul" at Sep 25, 96 08:02:09 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Paul stands accused of saying: > > I don't know what they did for SCO, Linux or UnixWare. Having read the > FLEXlm user's manual, ... rootvegetable:/tmp>uname -v FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #4: Wed Sep 25 19:35:50 CST 1996 msmith@rootvegetable.atrad.adelaide.edu.au:/home/msmith/work/sys/compile/RV rootvegetable:/tmp>./lmutil lmhostid lmutil - Copyright (C) 1989-1994 Globetrotter Software, Inc. LINUX: 'ioctl' fd=3, typ=0x89(), num=0x27 not implemented The FLEXlm host ID of this machine is "" I don't have Linux kernel source, so I can't tell you what it's supposed to do, but that's what it does. Sounds like a good way to move stuff around to me 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 00:39:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14781 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14730; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04444; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:38:32 +0200 (MET DST) To: Julian Elischer cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:07:42 PDT." <324A1DAE.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:38:31 +0200 Message-ID: <4442.843723511@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <324A1DAE.41C67EA6@whistle.com>, Julian Elischer writes: >I wanted to write a minimal footprint program >that would be as tiny as possible.. recompile libc with at least this change in libc/stdlib/malloc.c: #undef MALLOC_STATS -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 01:32:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA19956 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 01:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA19919 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 01:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA16587 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 01:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324A3EF8.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 01:29:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: libstdc++ what-where-when? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'v enever seen this before.. suddenly things here are breaking because its needed anyone know of it.. I'm not into c++ personally but.. julian From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 03:20:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA22612 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20154 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA10295; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:42:50 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:42:50 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199609261012.TAA10295@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer), freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libstdc++ what-where-when? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <324A3EF8.2781E494@whistle.com> you wrote: : I'v enever seen this before.. : suddenly things here are breaking because its needed : anyone know of it.. : I'm not into c++ personally but.. its part of GNU libg++. from memory the libio libs are less restrictive in the licensing than the libstdc++ stuff.. oh.. i can't remember :) try linking with libg++ and see how you go. Peter PS. how about that binary/source release of netatalk for fbsd-current? Were still waiting :) -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 03:31:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA29902 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA29857 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA17677; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324A5A34.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:25:56 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Childs CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libstdc++ what-where-when? References: <199609261012.TAA10295@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Childs wrote: > > > > PS. how about that binary/source release of netatalk for fbsd-current? > Were still waiting :) netatalk 1.4 beta 1 copiles and runs under -current without any patches.. it's being release Fri or Mon. I saw a copy running today.. :) > > -- > Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds > Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key > Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 03:38:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA04764 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA04546; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA09897; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:35:23 +0100 Received: from tees.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:37:43 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by tees.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) id LAA03154; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:36:36 +0100 To: Terry Lambert Cc: dubois@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois), current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software References: <199609252124.OAA06806@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: Paul Richards Date: 26 Sep 1996 11:36:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:24:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <57u3sllg0d.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.30 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > This value is, in fact, *more* spoofable than an IP address, since > if I use the ifconfig interface to get the IP address, and I hack > the interface to spoof the license manager, I break my networking > because it will also spoof ifconfig (and netsta -i, etc.). But, unless I've missed a reply somewhere no-one's addressed the problem of dynamically allocated ip addresses for dial-up accounts. I swap ethernet cards all the time from my development box, I'd be really pissed off if I couldn't use licensed products in my development environment. It's also a problem for a dial-up machine that won't have a MAC address. Anyway, I agree 110% with Jordan, nailing a product to a machine is really evil and I won't buy products that require that type of licensing. In a server environment it's really stupid anyway. All the Sun workstations at work have minimal disk and all products are on the fileserver. Which workstation you actually run the product on varies. All the licensed products we currently have on our server here use FLEXlm and they're concurrent user based licensing not location based. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 04:58:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA20260 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 04:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA20227 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 04:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA09696 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 04:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from k9.ludd.luth.se (k9.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.103]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id NAA16289; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:57:14 +0200 Received: from localhost (pantzer@localhost) by k9.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA04354; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:57:12 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:57:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mattias Pantzare To: Warner Losh cc: Pedro A M Vazquez , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: UID < 65535? In-Reply-To: <199609241912.NAA07536@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes. That rings a bell. Got a URL? ftp://alex.sp.cs.cmu.edu/doc/alex.html > > No wait, Altavista tells me http://www.ludd.se/~kavli/alex.html, but > my network world is busted by sprintlink, so I'm unable to get to that > host. :-(. That URL is http://www.ludd.luth.se/~kavli/alex.html From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 07:39:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA17256 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA17198 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA16831 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:38:52 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-current@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: 26 Sep 1996 14:38:51 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <52e4hr$fqt$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199609241530.JAA06226@rover.village.org> Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199609241537.JAA06948@rocky.mt.sri.com>, nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) writes: >> Why is there so much resistance to 10 lines of code already integrated >> and tested in NetBSD and OpenBSD? > > Why is gets() considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it encourages bad > programming practices when a better solution already exists. > > Why is 'install -d' considered to be a 'bad thing'? Because it > encourage bad installation practices when a better installation method > exists. > > Since the FreeBSD source tree has no need for it (we have a good > solution), and the functionality is available for folks that need it in > our 'provided' sources (GNU-install), then there is no need to 'pollute' > our tree with software that encourages bad practice. Sorry this is late in the argument, but there is one very important hole in the argument... install is *not* specifically designed solely for the purpose of installing FreeBSD build objects into the FreeBSD executable tree. It's a general purpose tool used by a damn lot of other source packages... Just because FreeBSD doesn't need it doesn't mean it's not useful. Saying that "it shouldn't have -d because we have mkdir -p" doesn't hold either because by the same argument, we shouldn't have -C, -o, -g, -m, -s, -f and -c, because we already have cmp, chown, chgrp, chmod, strip, chflags, and both cp and mv. Anyway, that's my $0.02 worth. > Nate -Peter From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 08:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00408 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00385 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v6I2Y-0008tNC; Thu, 26 Sep 96 08:07 PDT Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA15890; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609261452.IAA15890@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199609252025.NAA06624@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199609251839.MAA12703@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199609252025.NAA06624@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I suspect the NetBSD inclusion of the "-d" was for reasons of > commercial product installation (such as license managers, which > work over Garrett's theoretical objections), since they have > SunOS ABI compatability in their SPARC port. No, it was because they used it to build directories. It was done back in the 0.8 days so that they didn't have. foo: mkdir foo chown bin.bin foo chmod 755 foo. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 08:33:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA13701 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13616 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA17284 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:33:02 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-current@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: 26 Sep 1996 15:33:00 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <52e7nc$fqt$2@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <324A22F6.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199609260657.XAA00299@root.com>, dg@root.com (David Greenman) writes: >>David Greenman wrote: >>> >>> ... >>> >THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! >>> >I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! >>> >why oh why did I get malloc? >>> >>> Because atexit() uses it to remember exit callouts (see crt0.c). >>so why isn't atexit in libc? > > It is. > >>I certainly didn't call it.. >>of course I haven't checked.. it might well be there.. > > Sorry, I meant it was called from crt0.c. Actually, if you're building your > program static the call shouldn't be made if things are being built using > scrt0.o like they are supposed to be (the call to atexit() is in crt0 is not > made for the !MCRT0 && !DYNAMIC case). That's right, it's not coming from crt0.o, it's a gcc "feature". >>> >vfprintf? >>> >__CurrentRuneLocale ? >>> >hell it doesn't even contain a STRING let alone a default nationality! >>> >>> I think this is all because malloc (or something in crt0.c) calls a stdio >>> funtion like printf either directly or indirectly via a perror() or equivilent. >>> Of course Runes comes in because of vfprintf, etc, etc. >> >> >>so do we have a way of telling cc to link with a more sensible crt0? >>surely we can do something.. > > We already do. Perhaps the calls are coming from somewhere else... > > -DG Yes, we do have a special version of crt0.o, it's /usr/lib/scrt.o and gcc correctly links with it: peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-968> cat foo.c main() { } peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-971> cc -S foo.c peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-972> more foo.s .file "foo.c" gcc2_compiled.: ___gnu_compiled_c: .text .align 2 .globl _main .type _main,@function _main: pushl %ebp movl %esp,%ebp call ___main L1: leave ret Lfe1: .size _main,Lfe1-_main peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-973> cc -c foo.c peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-974> cc -v -static -o foo.exe foo.o gcc version 2.7.2.1 /usr/bin/ld -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a [add the -M flag to ld to see the map output ] peter@spinner[11:20pm]/tmp-975> /usr/bin/ld -M -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a | head /usr/lib/libgcc.a(__main.o) needed due to ___main /usr/lib/libgcc.a(_exit.o) needed due to __exit_dummy_decl /usr/lib/libc.a(atexit.o) needed due to _atexit /usr/lib/libc.a(malloc.o) needed due to _malloc /usr/lib/libc.a(mmap.o) needed due to _mmap /usr/lib/libc.a(brk.o) needed due to _brk /usr/lib/libc.a(sbrk.o) needed due to minbrk /usr/lib/libc.a(munmap.o) needed due to _munmap /usr/lib/libc.a(memset.o) needed due to _memset /usr/lib/libc.a(getenv.o) needed due to _getenv [..LOTS MORE..] Guess what is linked in with libgcc.c's __main(), and is called by __main(): /* Run all the global constructors on entry to the program. */ #ifndef ON_EXIT #define ON_EXIT(a, b) #else /* Make sure the exit routine is pulled in to define the globals as bss symbols, just in case the linker does not automatically pull bss definitions from the library. */ extern int _exit_dummy_decl; int *_exit_dummy_ref = &_exit_dummy_decl; #endif /* ON_EXIT */ void __do_global_ctors () { DO_GLOBAL_CTORS_BODY; ON_EXIT (__do_global_dtors, 0); } #endif /* no INIT_SECTION_ASM_OP */ So, in a nutshell if you want a small static program that doesn't use C++ anywhere: peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-985> cat foo.c __main() { /* dummy stub */ } main() { } peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-986> cc -static -o foo.exe foo.c peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-987> nm foo.exe 00001020 F /usr/lib/scrt0.o 00001090 F /var/tmp/cc0032811.o 00002018 B ___atexit 00002014 B ___cleanup 00001090 t ___gnu_compiled_c 00001090 T ___main 00002000 D ___progname 000010f0 T __exit 00002010 D _edata 00002024 B _end 0000201c B _environ 00002020 B _errno 00001100 T _etext 000010b0 T _exit 000010f0 F _exit.o 00001098 T _main 000010b0 F exit.o 00001090 t gcc2_compiled. 00001020 T start peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-988> size foo.exe text data bss dec hex 4096 4096 0 8192 2000 Now, you can't get smaller than that without ELF. (I learned crude tricks like this from my Amiga days with it's "interesting" C compilers. (ever used lattice-C 4.02?) Sigh...) -Peter From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 08:48:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23759 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23730 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA30202; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:48:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:48:33 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609261548.AA30202@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-Reply-To: <52e7nc$fqt$2@haywire.DIALix.COM> References: <324A22F6.167EB0E7@whistle.com> <52e7nc$fqt$2@haywire.DIALix.COM> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < Yes, we do have a special version of crt0.o, it's /usr/lib/scrt.o and gcc > correctly links with it: > /usr/lib/libgcc.a(__main.o) needed due to ___main We really should fix our crt0 and libc to do things right and not need __main or the functions it calls. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 09:42:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25523 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25388; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA08330; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:38:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609261638.JAA08330@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:38:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12851.843705126@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 25, 96 07:32:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There is inherent locality associated with the license server. > > > > I can reuse a license in your scenario if I can make equiavelent > > servers -- the same license may be checked out from both simultaneously. > > Piddle and tosh. It's an easy thing to make a license manager check > for duplicates and either work cooperatively or shut down again. > > This also assumes that your LM also doesn't require an admin password > on startup - another way of making sure unauthorized types don't start > their own copies. This is a non-problem. What if I create false static routes between the license servers? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 10:01:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05272 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (root@spinner.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05222 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.DIALix.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03640; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:00:54 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199609261700.BAA03640@spinner.DIALix.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: Garrett Wollman cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:48:33 -0400." <9609261548.AA30202@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:00:54 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Garrett Wollman wrote: > < > > Yes, we do have a special version of crt0.o, it's /usr/lib/scrt.o and gcc > > correctly links with it: > > > /usr/lib/libgcc.a(__main.o) needed due to ___main > > We really should fix our crt0 and libc to do things right and not need > __main or the functions it calls. > > -GAWollman Well, having crt0.c calling __do_global_ctors before main() and having exit.c in libc calling __do_global_dtors() seems a bit gcc-centric to me, but I guess there's not a lot of alternative if we want to keep the -static overheads minimal. Sigh, and the ELF file format solves it so nicely (or any other file formt with multiple arbitary sections) by contatenating a call lists and crt0.o's task simply becomes "call .init" and for exit(), it's "call .fini" (or is that __init and __fini? I never can remember). All the work is done once-off at link time and there's only any constructor/destructor glue *IF* there are any C++ object's present somewhere. It simply is left out otherwise. It's not quite like linker sets, the result is an executable chunk of code. Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 12:52:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06937 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06889 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23936 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324ADE62.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:49:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Return-Path: ambrisko@whistle.com Received: from whistle.com (whistle.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA21583; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA22473 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crab.whistle.com(207.76.205.112) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022469; Thu Sep 26 09:47:27 1996 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02315 for eng; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199609261647.JAA02315@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd) To: eng@whistle.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw this on c.o.l.a. Now you can read encrypted pdf file on FreeBSD via Linux emulation. I installed it on crab and it seems to work fine as long as you have the required shared libs for linux. Doug A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adobe is pleased to announce Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta 12 for Linux 1.2.13 yggbrasil Fall'95 release. Please note this is the only Linux version supported. To download, go to http://www.adobe.com/acrobat/3beta/undownload.html. To report problems, please use the form on the Adobe Web site at http://www.adobe.com/acrobat/3beta/bugform.html. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Sarah Rosenbaum Adobe Systems Incorporated Acrobat Product Marketing Mailstop W12 srosenba@adobe.com 345 Park Avenue PHONE: 408-536-3844 San Jose, CA 95110-2704 FAX: 408-537-4005 WEB: www.adobe.com/acrobat From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 13:26:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25232 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu (AMI-CHAN.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.92.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25193; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from yunching@localhost) by Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA01420; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Yun-Ching Lee Message-Id: <199609262026.QAA01420@Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu> Subject: Weird DNS problem To: questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: yunching@Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I cannot access a host even though it exists. (None of the TCP/IP tools work.) yunching@Ami-chan:~% nslookup www.bcc.com.tw Server: NETSERVER.ANDREW.CMU.EDU Address: 128.2.35.50 Non-authoritative answer: Name: BCC_WWW.BCC.COM.TW Address: 203.69.33.1 Aliases: www.bcc.com.tw yunching@Ami-chan:~% ping www.bcc.com.tw ping: unknown host www.bcc.com.tw yunching@Ami-chan:~% uname -a FreeBSD Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Fri Sep 20 09:52:56 EDT 1996 root@Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/KERNEL05 i386 I am running FreeBSD-2.2-CURRENT supped and built on Sep 20. I was running 080196-SNAP, and it was working before. I am not aware of any other hostname that will cause this problem. For the short term, I will just put the hostname and IP in /etc/hosts, but I would appreciate a more long-term solution. Please cc: me any suggestion this problem, as I'm not on questions list. I am on current list. -- Yun-Ching (Allen) Lee (yunching@Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu), CMU SCS http://Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu/~yunching/home.html ------- More information on this problem -------- My /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost.res.cmu.edu localhost 128.2.92.1 Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu Ami-chan 128.2.92.1 Ami-chan.res.cmu.edu . My /etc/resolv.conf domain res.cmu.edu search res.cmu.edu andrew.cmu.edu alias.cs.cmu.edu cc.cmu.edu cmu.edu nameserver 128.2.35.50 nameserver 128.2.13.21 nameserver 128.2.232.1 My /etc/host.conf # $Id: host.conf,v 1.2 1993/11/07 01:02:57 wollman Exp $ # Default is to use the nameserver first bind # If that doesn't work, then try the /etc/hosts file hosts # If you have YP/NIS configured, uncomment the next line # nis From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 13:33:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA29514 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29454 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.24]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA23092; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11594; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:33:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skipper.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: Steve Ames cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: cvs doesn't compile in -CURRENT In-Reply-To: <199609260211.VAA19937@mer.cioe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Steve Ames wrote: > > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs does not compile because of an ommission in > options.h... there is no #define for RM. Because of this the file > release.c fails do to an unknown variable. It compiled fine for me, so why don't you post your error output? BTW, notice I redirected this to FreeBSD-current, where something like this really belongs? > > -Steve > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 13:54:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09739 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pst@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09718 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199609262054.NAA09718@freefall.freebsd.org> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: warning -- keyboard probe touched Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI, if there's anyone compiling boot blocks with -DPROBE_KEYBOARD, I just touched it. I tested it pretty thoroughly, but I only have relatively modern keyboard hardware. Please be aware of this if you update your boot blocks. Paul p.s. -DPROBE_KEYBOARD is not the default From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:03:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14042 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebsd.netcom.com (freebsd.netcom.com [198.211.79.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13995; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by freebsd.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id QAA02946; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:02:59 -0500 From: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) Message-Id: <199609262102.QAA02946@freebsd.netcom.com> Subject: re: Weird DNS problem To: questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:02:59 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Yun-Ching Lee > > I cannot access a host even though it exists. (None of the TCP/IP tools > work.) > > yunching@Ami-chan:~% nslookup www.bcc.com.tw > Server: NETSERVER.ANDREW.CMU.EDU > Address: 128.2.35.50 > > Non-authoritative answer: > Name: BCC_WWW.BCC.COM.TW ^ "_" are illegal now :-) since bind 4.9.4 enforces rfc > Address: 203.69.33.1 > Aliases: www.bcc.com.tw > > yunching@Ami-chan:~% ping www.bcc.com.tw > ping: unknown host www.bcc.com.tw Regards, Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas bugs@freebsd.netcom.com From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:02:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13353 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13234; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16791; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, commercial@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Licensing Software In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:38:36 PDT." <199609261638.JAA08330@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <16789.843771612@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What if I create false static routes between the license servers? Broadcasts need routes? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:13:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18887 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [193.125.152.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18829; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA29252 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:12:24 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 27 Sep 96 01:12:23 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.ru (8.7.6/8.7.3) id BAA00683; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:05:50 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199609262105.BAA00683@nagual.ru> Subject: Please remove this lines from XFree configuration comes by default To: jkh@freebsd.org (Jordan Hubbard), current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-current) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:05:50 +0400 (MSD) From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) Organization: self X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just found in August Snapshot: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf: #ifndef UseGnuMalloc #define UseGnuMalloc YES #endif #ifndef GnuMallocLibrary #define GnuMallocLibrary -lgnumalloc #endif Please, delete this lines in future Snapshots. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:28:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25757 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-35.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25669 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08203 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:39:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609251539.RAA08203@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: install on {Net,Open}BSD vs install on FreeBSD From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:10:45 MDT." <199609250410.WAA10368@rocky.mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:39:02 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Nate Williams > The -d option *ISN'T* BSD. To quote both: - My 4.2BSD Symmetric 375, {hardware designed by, & defunct manufacturer presided by} Bill Jollitz -r-xr-xr-x 1 root 918 May 27 1986 /usr/bin/install #! /bin/sh # @(#)install.sh 4.7 (Berkeley) 9/7/85 - 4.3 printed CSRG URM man install SYNOPSIS install [ -c ] [ -m mode ] [ -o owner ] [ -g group ] [ -s ] binary destination On the 4.4 Lite CD, I only found xinstall. Personaly, I'd prefer to have -d available. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:36:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA28691 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28561; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA10456; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:21:46 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199609262121.QAA10456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:21:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609261638.JAA08330@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Sep 26, 96 09:38:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There is inherent locality associated with the license server. > > > > > > I can reuse a license in your scenario if I can make equiavelent > > > servers -- the same license may be checked out from both simultaneously. > > > > Piddle and tosh. It's an easy thing to make a license manager check > > for duplicates and either work cooperatively or shut down again. > > > > This also assumes that your LM also doesn't require an admin password > > on startup - another way of making sure unauthorized types don't start > > their own copies. This is a non-problem. > > What if I create false static routes between the license servers? Guys. It is simple. When you have source - you do what you want. (Even to something where you don't have the source - such as a license manager). Example: Linux emulation. I don't think the Linux binaries were meant to run on FreeBSD. Yet apparently we can make a FreeBSD box look enough like a Linux box to do so... There is NOTHING stopping you from going to some effort to circumvent a license manager. It broadcasts? Separate them with a router. Use IPFW to make them deaf to each other. Etc etc. A hundred things you can do. Is your LM software smart enough to think of all the things I can do to break it, if I really want to? No. I guarantee it. It tries to ID your hardware? Circumvent it. Trap it. Code around it. It tries to check your IP address? Code around it. That is lame and stupid anyways. Too many people do not have constant addresses. or switch hardware. Anything you can do to protect your license server can be worked around, on a PC platform, without the addition of specialized hardware. And the odds are that a legitimate licensee may end up having to break your security in order to get a product working. I'm not even going to answer Terry's messages that seem to assume it is fine to wire in things like network addresses... that is pure c***. Anybody who has ever had to run a LM that does any of that hokey stuff knows it. You invariably run into a problem. ... JG From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:51:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA06641 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06606 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16991; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (Andrey A. Chernov) cc: current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-current) Subject: Re: Please remove this lines from XFree configuration comes by default In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:05:50 +0400." <199609262105.BAA00683@nagual.ru> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:50:52 -0700 Message-ID: <16989.843774652@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is actually Rich's area and yes, we've already talked about doing this for the next release. Jordan > Just found in August Snapshot: > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf: > #ifndef UseGnuMalloc > #define UseGnuMalloc YES > #endif > #ifndef GnuMallocLibrary > #define GnuMallocLibrary -lgnumalloc > #endif > > Please, delete this lines in future Snapshots. > > -- > Andrey A. Chernov > > http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:56:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09206 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09086; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08746; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:52:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609262152.OAA08746@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Licensing Software To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:52:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jhs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, commercial@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609262121.QAA10456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Sep 26, 96 04:21:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not even going to answer Terry's messages that seem to assume it is > fine to wire in things like network addresses... that is pure c***. > Anybody who has ever had to run a LM that does any of that hokey stuff > knows it. You invariably run into a problem. How can my application contact the license manager if it doesn't have a wired network address? Why can't my application tell my license manger "here is the address at which I contacted you"? I'm not talking about tying a *license* to a network address -- I've said before, that would be stupid. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 14:59:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11358 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cioeserv.cioe.com (news.cioe.com [204.120.165.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11310 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by cioeserv.cioe.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA00484; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:59:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:59:24 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199609262159.QAA00484@cioeserv.cioe.com> To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: cvs doesn't compile in -CURRENT Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs does not compile because of an ommission in > > options.h... there is no #define for RM. Because of this the file > > release.c fails do to an unknown variable. > > It compiled fine for me, so why don't you post your error output? > > BTW, notice I redirected this to FreeBSD-current, where something like > this really belongs? Noticed that. My apologies for not properly acknowledging that mailing list structure. I cannot get cvs to compile at all... seems the missing #define was the least of its problems. This actually started when i started supping the /usr/src/contrib hierarchy (unless I'm mistaken its necessary now, right?) Here's the error output (hope it helps): # cd /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs # make depend all cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../../../../contrib/cvs/src -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../../../../contrib/cvs/lib -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -o cvs add.o admin.o checkin.o checkout.o classify.o client.o commit.o create_adm.o cvsrc.o diff.o entries.o expand_path.o find_names.o history.o ignore.o import.o lock.o log.o login.o logmsg.o main.o modules.o no_diff.o parseinfo.o patch.o rcs.o rcscmds.o recurse.o release.o remove.o repos.o root.o rtag.o server.o status.o tag.o update.o vers_ts.o wrapper.o subr.o error.o filesubr.o version.o myndbm.o fileattr.o watch.o run.o hash.o edit.o mkmodules.o scramble.o -L/usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib -lcvs -lgnuregex -lmd -lcrypt error.o: Undefined symbol `_cvs_outerr' referenced from text segment watch.o: Undefined symbol `_send_to_server' referenced from text segment watch.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_for_write' referenced from text segment watch.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_cleanup' referenced from text segment watch.o: Undefined symbol `_send_to_server' referenced from text segment run.o: Definition of symbol `_run_setup' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_run_arg' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_run_args' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_run_exec' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_run_print' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_piped_child' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_close_on_exec' (multiply defined) run.o: Definition of symbol `_filter_stream_through_program' (multiply defined) edit.o: Undefined symbol `_send_to_server' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_for_write' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_cleanup' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_send_to_server' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_for_write' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_lock_tree_cleanup' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_server_started' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_client_notify' referenced from text segment edit.o: Undefined symbol `_send_to_server' referenced from text segment mkmodules.o: Undefined symbol `_send_init_command' referenced from text segment /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_run_print' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_run_setup' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_run_arg' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_run_args' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_close_on_exec' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_run_exec' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_piped_child' (multiply defined) /usr/obj/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cvs/cvs/../lib/libcvs.a(run.o): Definition of symbol `_filter_stream_through_program' (multiply defined) *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 15:16:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20966 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20722 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id HAA22515 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:45:48 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199609262215.HAA22515@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Subject: Sendmail 8.8.0 :) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:45:48 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Grin. Talk about a moving target.. but I just noticed that on http://www.sendmail.org/ sendmail 8.8.0 was just released. Anyone wanna commit it on current's tree? Ta. Regards, Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 16:56:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA15149 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15121 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA21402; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609262356.QAA21402@austin.polstra.com> To: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: <199609261700.BAA03640@spinner.DIALix.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 16:56:25 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sigh, and the ELF file format solves it so nicely (or any other > file formt with multiple arbitary sections) by contatenating a call > lists and crt0.o's task simply becomes "call .init" and for exit(), > it's "call .fini" (or is that __init and __fini? I never can remember). Neither. It's _init and _fini in ELF. :-) John From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 17:25:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06633 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06593 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA00292 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:24:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199609270024.UAA00292@sparks.empath.on.ca> Subject: Re: Deleted /usr/lib/libgnumalloc.so.2.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Robert Rutter" X-Return-Address: rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca X-Os: FreeBSD Unix 2.2-current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for all the fine ideas and kind responses. It seems that I needed to update my /etc/rc from /usr/src/etc/rc. Now libgnumalloc.so.2.0 is found in /usr/lib/compat and all is well. :+) I should have known the FreeBSD team wouldn't let this go unfixed. Have I said how much I like FreeBSD current? Its the best O/S I've used (and that includes some big expensive Unices). Great work and many thanks to all involved! Cheers, -- Robert Rutter rjr@sparks.empath.on.ca The thing I really like about Windows 95 is its artificial intelligence. For example, check the properties of any file with the extension "old". Windows 95 will tell you that it is an old file. What other major operating system available today has intelligence that is so artificial? From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 17:58:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA28586 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28513 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA02056; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:42:48 +1000 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:42:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609270042.KAA02056@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@whistle.com, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>I wanted to write a minimal footprint program >>that would be as tiny as possible.. > >recompile libc with at least this change in libc/stdlib/malloc.c: > >#undef MALLOC_STATS Even better: don't use malloc(): main() {} atexit() {} atexit() is normally linked to and references malloc(), although it only calls malloc() when there are a lot of atexits. malloc() now uses stdio and stdio uses half the universe. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 18:15:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA08720 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08613 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA17129; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:44:38 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199609270114.KAA17129@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:44:37 +0930 (CST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <324ADE62.1CFBAE39@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Sep 26, 96 12:49:54 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer stands accused of saying: > > I saw this on c.o.l.a. Now you can read encrypted pdf file on FreeBSD > via Linux emulation. I installed it on crab and it seems to work fine > as long as you have the required shared libs for linux. It has been possible to read encrypted PDF files on FreeBSD using ghostscript and gv or ghostview for quite some time now. It would be nice if apsfilter recognised PDF so that one could just print the junk rather than having to translate it first. (Note that due to the interesting american laws regarding encryption technology, the PDF decoding code isn't included in the stock gs release. I wonder how Adobe get around this...) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 18:52:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA00657 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zombie.ncsc.mil (zombie.ncsc.mil [144.51.15.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00606 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sjr@localhost) by zombie.ncsc.mil (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA27418 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:52:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:52:14 -0400 From: "Stephen J. Roznowski" Message-Id: <199609270152.VAA27418@zombie.ncsc.mil> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Location of sup files Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Where do people location their sup files? Looking at the distributed files: /usr/src/etc/make.conf has SUPFILE at /usr/share/examples/sup/standard-supfile /usr/src/share/examples/Makefile installs the sample files into /usr/share/examples/sup Therefore if you do a "make update" in /usr/src and then build and install you lose your original files. So, where is the "right place" to put the sup files so they survive across builds? Thanks, Stephen Roznowski (sjr@zombie.ncsc.mil) From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 19:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09620 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09599 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.24]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.Gamma.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14369; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12751; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:08:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: skipper.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:08:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: Michael Smith cc: Julian Elischer , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-Reply-To: <199609270114.KAA17129@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Julian Elischer stands accused of saying: > > > > I saw this on c.o.l.a. Now you can read encrypted pdf file on FreeBSD > > via Linux emulation. I installed it on crab and it seems to work fine > > as long as you have the required shared libs for linux. > > It has been possible to read encrypted PDF files on FreeBSD using ghostscript > and gv or ghostview for quite some time now. It would be nice if apsfilter > recognised PDF so that one could just print the junk rather than having to > translate it first. > > (Note that due to the interesting american laws regarding encryption > technology, the PDF decoding code isn't included in the stock gs release. > I wonder how Adobe get around this...) I'd read that pdf files weren't really encrypted, just compressed (and called encrypted). Not so? > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ > ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 19:14:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA12400 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12366 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA17881; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:44:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199609270214.LAA17881@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:44:26 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Sep 26, 96 10:08:37 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey stands accused of saying: > > > > (Note that due to the interesting american laws regarding encryption > > technology, the PDF decoding code isn't included in the stock gs release. > > I wonder how Adobe get around this...) > > I'd read that pdf files weren't really encrypted, just compressed (and > called encrypted). Not so? No. From /usr/local/share/ghostscript/4.01/pdf_main.ps (with patch) : % An implementation of an algorithm compatible with the RSA Data Security % Inc. RC4 stream encryption algorithm. I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 19:15:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA12726 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12676 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id MAA05537; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:01:44 +1000 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:01:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609270201.MAA05537@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, peter@spinner.DIALix.COM Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-973> cc -c foo.c >peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-974> cc -v -static -o foo.exe foo.o >gcc version 2.7.2.1 > /usr/bin/ld -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a > >[add the -M flag to ld to see the map output ] > >peter@spinner[11:20pm]/tmp-975> /usr/bin/ld -M -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a | head >/usr/lib/libgcc.a(__main.o) needed due to ___main It's easier to add the -M to the cc command: cc -static -o foo foo.c -Wl,-M ^^^^ pass following options to linker ^^ desired linker flag >So, in a nutshell if you want a small static program that doesn't use >C++ anywhere: > >peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-985> cat foo.c >__main() { /* dummy stub */ } > >main() >{ >} Except that exit() should be attached to atexit() there if stdio is linked. Currently we use the special method of calling stdio's _cleanup() from exit() through the function pointer __cleanup. >peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-988> size foo.exe >text data bss dec hex >4096 4096 0 8192 2000 > >Now, you can't get smaller than that without ELF. I got considerably smaller sizes using a.out under Minix, from a space-optimized stdio (1200 bytes for putc(), 4528 bytes for printf()) and a __LDPGSZ of 16. How does ELF handle paging if its sizes aren't multiples of PAGE_SIZE? Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 19:19:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA14488 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14449 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.6/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id CAA20406; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:19:00 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:19:00 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Stephen J. Roznowski" cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Location of sup files In-Reply-To: <199609270152.VAA27418@zombie.ncsc.mil> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I put'em in /usr/local/etc. On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Stephen J. Roznowski wrote: > Where do people location their sup files? > > Looking at the distributed files: > > /usr/src/etc/make.conf has SUPFILE at > /usr/share/examples/sup/standard-supfile > > /usr/src/share/examples/Makefile installs the sample > files into /usr/share/examples/sup > > Therefore if you do a "make update" in /usr/src and then build > and install you lose your original files. > > So, where is the "right place" to put the sup files so they > survive across builds? > > Thanks, > Stephen Roznowski (sjr@zombie.ncsc.mil) > From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 20:08:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA07992 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley10.res.iastate.edu (friley10.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07953 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from friley10.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley10.res.iastate.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00770 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:10:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609270310.WAA00770@friley10.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Loss of FAT filesystem support Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:10:50 -0500 From: "Ric Flinn" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone else noticed that -current now has problems copying files TO an MS-DOS / FAT partition? Copies from FAT to FFS seem to work ok, but when I try to copy stuff to my dos drive it looks fine while i'm in FreeBSD but when I reboot to dos, it just looks like garbage. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ric Flinn http://friley10.res.iastate.edu/~rmf rmf@iastate.edu If we had ham, we could make ham & eggs. If we had eggs. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 21:49:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05569 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05522 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA18103; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:48:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:44:26 +0930." <199609270214.LAA17881@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:48:41 -0700 Message-ID: <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) You've clearly never seen the turing machine written in vi. :-) [and I didn't even know you could DO that with vi!] Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 22:06:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA14305 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA14033; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA07227; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:01:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:01:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.0.2 for FreeBSD released [Java Development Kit] In-Reply-To: <17725.843786928@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > From: Jeffrey Hsu > Subject: JDK 1.0.2 for FreeBSD > > Announcement > ------------ > A native FreeBSD binary distribution of the JDK 1.0.2 is now available from > freefall.FreeBSD.org:/pub/FreeBSD/LOCAL_PORTS/jdk102.tar.gz > This port contains the java interpreter, compiler, and appletviewer. > This is a completely unsupported distribution. Beautiful! Wonderful! My life is now complete! Wow, this is super - I just grabbed it and tryed it out; it all works like a charm. Now I never have to leave FreeBSD! And now I can poke fun at the linux folk about having a 1.0.2 on fbsd while they still are stuck with 1.0.1.... Much thanx to Jeffrey Hsu for this, I spent way too much time trying to get guavac compiled on FreeBSD; to have a 'real' sun jdk is comforting. Again, thanx for the effort (this goes to all involved in FreeBSD). I'll send my donation cheque as soon as I can scrounge up some cash, and maybe some day I'll be able to contribute to the collective! :-) cya, -Mark ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch > > Installation > ------------ > 1. Grab freefall.FreeBSD.org:/pub/FreeBSD/LOCAL_PORTS/jdk102.tar.gz. > 2. Create a directory and untar the FreeBSD distribution in there. > 3. Install the pdksh port. > > Running the JDK > --------------- > If your JDK directory is rooted at , you need to set > 1. your path to include the /bin directory > 2. CLASSPATH environment variable to .:/classes > 3. LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include /lib/i386 > To compile a java program, invoke 'javac program.java'. > To run it, use 'java '. > > Answers to Common Questions > --------------------------- > Q: Do I need Motif? > A: No. > > Q: Which version of FreeBSD does this work on? > A: I run the current version of FreeBSD, so that's the only version which > I've verified. > > Q: It doesn't work on my machine. What do I do? > A: You are out of luck. This is a completely unsupported distribution. > From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 23:14:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA24094 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA24048 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id IAA16919 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:14:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id IAA14033 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:02:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00348; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:21:28 +0200 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs References: <87ohitp543.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 26 Sep 1996 19:21:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:50 -0700 Message-ID: <87ranpkx9k.fsf@plm.xs4all.nl> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:50 -0700, David Greenman >> said: DG> ... >> THIS IS NOT MINIMAL! >> I DID NOT WANT ALL THIS CRAP! >> why oh why did I get malloc? Then just link everything dynamically, also /sbin and /bin, except for a few crucial programs. That is what I do. I've never understood why the default is to link so much static. The shared libraries behave very stable so it brings no risk to do it. In case of a problem you can recover from the boot floppy. -- Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | Trust is a good quality plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | for other people to have From owner-freebsd-current Thu Sep 26 23:22:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA00802 for current-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (root@spinner.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00670 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.DIALix.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06513; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:21:21 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199609270621.OAA06513@spinner.DIALix.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:01:44 +1000." <199609270201.MAA05537@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:21:21 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > >peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-973> cc -c foo.c > >peter@spinner[11:19pm]/tmp-974> cc -v -static -o foo.exe foo.o > >gcc version 2.7.2.1 > > /usr/bin/ld -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /us r/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a > > > >[add the -M flag to ld to see the map output ] > > > >peter@spinner[11:20pm]/tmp-975> /usr/bin/ld -M -e start -dc -dp -Bstatic -o foo.exe /usr/lib/scrt0.o foo.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a | he ad > >/usr/lib/libgcc.a(__main.o) needed due to ___main > > It's easier to add the -M to the cc command: > > cc -static -o foo foo.c -Wl,-M > ^^^^ pass following options to linker > ^^ desired linker flag Ahh, doesn't suprise me. I was more interested in showing the dependency list sequence than the most efficient way of getting it. :-] > >So, in a nutshell if you want a small static program that doesn't use > >C++ anywhere: > > > >peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-985> cat foo.c > >__main() { /* dummy stub */ } > > > >main() > >{ > >} > > Except that exit() should be attached to atexit() there if stdio > is linked. Currently we use the special method of calling stdio's > _cleanup() from exit() through the function pointer __cleanup. This seems to date back to the dark ages as far as I can see. There's a reference to something like _cleanup() or (*_cleanup)() in the fake exit() routine in the older libgcc2.c > >peter@spinner[11:27pm]/tmp-988> size foo.exe > >text data bss dec hex > >4096 4096 0 8192 2000 > > > >Now, you can't get smaller than that without ELF. > > I got considerably smaller sizes using a.out under Minix, from a > space-optimized stdio (1200 bytes for putc(), 4528 bytes for printf()) > and a __LDPGSZ of 16. How does ELF handle paging if its sizes aren't > multiples of PAGE_SIZE? We can produce a 272 byte nmagic or omagic file, but we cannot execute them. This is probably a weakness in our a.out image activator, but I doubt many people care about read/write text, non-demand-paged executables. ELF handles it by double-mapping the pages. The first page is mapped PROT_READ|PROT_EXECUTE and MAP_SHARED, while the same page is mapped again PROT_ALL + MAP_PRIVATE. So, some of the text appears before the "official" start of the data segment and so on. However, the elf crt1.o that we currently have pulls in stdio via errx and strerror, so I can't quite test the same thing under elf for comparison until jdp's elf crt1.o gets the "brutal optimization" treatment. It only has a single compile mode, which has dynamic code support. The a.out case has a special "static only" mode, so it's not yet an apples-vs-apples comparison. Doing it dynamic though: peter@spinner[1:51pm]/tmp-230> elf-cc -s -o foo.exe foo.c peter@spinner[1:51pm]/tmp-231> elf-size foo.exe text data bss dec hex filename 556 799 8 1363 553 foo.exe peter@spinner[1:51pm]/tmp-232> l foo.exe 3 -rwxr-xr-x 1 peter bin 2680 Sep 27 13:51 foo.exe* Versus a.out: peter@spinner[1:52pm]/tmp-233> cc -s -o foo.exe foo.c peter@spinner[1:52pm]/tmp-234> size foo.exe text data bss dec hex 4096 4096 0 8192 2000 peter@spinner[1:52pm]/tmp-235> l foo.exe 8 -rwxr-xr-x 1 peter bin 8192 Sep 27 13:52 foo.exe* Using objdump to look at the headers reveals the virtual address space internals: peter@spinner[2:05pm]/tmp-259> elf-objdump --headers foo.exe foo.exe: file format a.out-i386-freebsd Sections: Idx Name Size VMA LMA File off Algn 0 .text 00000fe0 00001020 00001020 00000020 2**3 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, CODE 1 .data 00001000 00002000 00002000 00001000 2**3 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 2 .bss 00000000 00003000 00003000 00000000 2**3 ALLOC peter@spinner[2:05pm]/tmp-260> elf-objdump --headers efoo.exe efoo.exe: file format elf32-i386 Sections: Idx Name Size VMA LMA File off Algn 0 .interp 00000019 080480d4 080480d4 000000d4 2**0 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 1 .hash 00000048 080480f0 080480f0 000000f0 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 2 .dynsym 000000d0 08048138 08048138 00000138 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 3 .dynstr 00000071 08048208 08048208 00000208 2**0 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 4 .rel.plt 00000010 0804827c 0804827c 0000027c 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 5 .init 00000006 0804828c 0804828c 0000028c 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE 6 .plt 00000030 08048294 08048294 00000294 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE 7 .text 000001f0 080482c4 080482c4 000002c4 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE 8 .fini 00000006 080484b4 080484b4 000004b4 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE 9 .rodata 000000d5 080484ba 080484ba 000004ba 2**0 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, DATA 10 .data 00000004 08049590 08049590 00000590 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 11 .ctors 00000008 08049594 08049594 00000594 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 12 .dtors 00000008 0804959c 0804959c 0000059c 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 13 .got 00000014 080495a4 080495a4 000005a4 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 14 .dynamic 00000070 080495b8 080495b8 000005b8 2**2 CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA 15 .bss 00000008 08049628 08049628 00000628 2**2 ALLOC 16 .note 00000050 00000000 00000000 00000628 2**0 CONTENTS, READONLY 17 .comment 00000048 00000000 00000000 00000678 2**0 CONTENTS, READONLY As you can see, there's a *LOT* of extra stuff in the ELF headers. A lot of people have looked at this and said "Aargh! It'll never be as fast as our a.out dynamic implementation!". Well, relax, what you see there is the detailed information. The kernel executable loader and dynamic linker have custom tables optimised specifically for them: peter@spinner[2:07pm]/tmp-262> elf-objdump --private-headers efoo.exe efoo.exe: file format elf32-i386 Program Header: PHDR off 0x00000034 vaddr 0x08048034 paddr 0x08048034 align 2**2 filesz 0x000000a0 memsz 0x000000a0 flags r-x INTERP off 0x000000d4 vaddr 0x080480d4 paddr 0x080480d4 align 2**0 filesz 0x00000019 memsz 0x00000019 flags r-- LOAD off 0x00000000 vaddr 0x08048000 paddr 0x08048000 align 2**12 filesz 0x0000058f memsz 0x0000058f flags r-x LOAD off 0x00000590 vaddr 0x08049590 paddr 0x08049590 align 2**12 filesz 0x00000098 memsz 0x000000a0 flags rw- DYNAMIC off 0x000005b8 vaddr 0x080495b8 paddr 0x080495b8 align 2**2 filesz 0x00000070 memsz 0x00000070 flags rw- Dynamic Section: NEEDED libc.so.1 INIT 0x804828c FINI 0x80484b4 HASH 0x80480f0 STRTAB 0x8048208 SYMTAB 0x8048138 STRSZ 0x71 SYMENT 0x10 DEBUG 0x0 PLTGOT 0x80495a4 PLTRELSZ 0x10 PLTREL 0x11 JMPREL 0x804827c The "program header" is for the executable loader. PHDR is for kernel, approximately equivalent of the a.out entry address and is not used once the executable is launched. The "INTERP" section is so that the kernel loads the ld.so and the executable in one go, rather than the a.out case where the kernel loads the executable and the executable's crt0.o mmap's ld.so via a heap of syscalls. The ELF format is more efficient here. The two LOAD sections are the text and combined data+bss sections. DYNAMIC is for the ld.so to find it's header quickly. SVR4 goes a little further than we would. They have ld.so built into libc.so.1, so the kernel loads the executable, the dynamic linker and libc.so all in a single go. Unfortunately for us, this means we can't do versioning or support LD_PRELOAD very well. Although, thinking about it, there would be nothing stopping us doing it and having the major number specified (ie: specify libc.so.3), and after starting, we simply compare a compiled-in minor version number of the libc.so.3 that we got and make sure it's new enough. This would be effectively the same as what we do with a.out, where we load the "latest" minor number, and print a warning if it's not new enough. I guess LD_PRELOAD wouldn't be too hard to support if ld.so builds it's symbol search paths properly. > Bruce Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 00:45:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA05446 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA05394; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA00610; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:05:10 +0200 (MET DST) To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@whistle.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:42:48 +1000." <199609270042.KAA02056@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:05:10 +0200 Message-ID: <608.843807910@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609270042.KAA02056@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, Bruce Evans writes: >>>I wanted to write a minimal footprint program >>>that would be as tiny as possible.. >> >>recompile libc with at least this change in libc/stdlib/malloc.c: >> >>#undef MALLOC_STATS > >Even better: don't use malloc(): > > main() {} atexit() {} > >atexit() is normally linked to and references malloc(), although it >only calls malloc() when there are a lot of atexits. malloc() now >uses stdio and stdio uses half the universe. Malloc doesn't use stdio if you don't define MALLOC_STATS in it... I'm not to happy about that being the default, it doesn't matter for shlib cases, but for static programs it's a pain. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 01:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA18070 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18020; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00882; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:01:23 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:48:41 PDT." <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:01:22 +0200 Message-ID: <880.843811282@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) > >You've clearly never seen the turing machine written in vi. :-) >[and I didn't even know you could DO that with vi!] Uhm, where do you feed the paper tape in ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 01:25:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA01688 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01646; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA00758; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:24:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Michael Smith , chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org, me@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:01:22 +0200." <880.843811282@critter.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:24:42 -0700 Message-ID: <756.843812682@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > >> I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) > > > >You've clearly never seen the turing machine written in vi. :-) > >[and I didn't even know you could DO that with vi!] > > Uhm, where do you feed the paper tape in ? >From a file, of course. It reads the paper tape file and executes it, using vi's `execute macro from buffer' feature to permute the instruction chain. I remember giving Michael Elbel a copy - you still got it, Michael? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 01:44:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA11797 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA11756 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0v6T8U-0001uWC; Thu, 26 Sep 96 19:58 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:58:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@covina To: Michael Smith cc: Julian Elischer , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-Reply-To: <199609270114.KAA17129@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Julian Elischer stands accused of saying: > > > > I saw this on c.o.l.a. Now you can read encrypted pdf file on FreeBSD > > via Linux emulation. I installed it on crab and it seems to work fine > > as long as you have the required shared libs for linux. I'd like to comment: Notice the wording in the announcement and on Adobe's Web page which says it _only_ has been tested on Yggdrasil Fall edition. Does that give you an indication how _afraid_ commercial authors are of claiming support for the divergent varieties of Linux distributions out there that they haven't tested? Having a single distribution of FreeBSD has always been a _big_ win for us, IMHO. However the fact that FreeBSD runs a variety of different Linux versions and is nowhere near 100% compatible from a userland perspective, implies that the differences between the various Linux flavors are unlikely to cause programs like Acrobat Reader much trouble. Therefore it appears that commercial vendors only "support" a single Linux flavor for political, rather than technical reasons.... > It has been possible to read encrypted PDF files on FreeBSD using ghostscript > and gv or ghostview for quite some time now. It would be nice if apsfilter > recognised PDF so that one could just print the junk rather than having to > translate it first. I was not aware of this... (blatant plug: right now I'm maintaining a Ghostscript distribution for BeOS, see www.be.com for more info). > (Note that due to the interesting american laws regarding encryption > technology, the PDF decoding code isn't included in the stock gs release. > I wonder how Adobe get around this...) I've heard that if you _only_ do decryption, you can apply for an export permit. As long as your program can't be used to encrypt anything. Silly law, really... -- Jake From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 02:01:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA19953 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA19880; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01022; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:00:31 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org, me@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:24:42 PDT." <756.843812682@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:00:31 +0200 Message-ID: <1020.843814831@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <756.843812682@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> In message <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> >> I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) >> > >> >You've clearly never seen the turing machine written in vi. :-) >> >[and I didn't even know you could DO that with vi!] >> >> Uhm, where do you feed the paper tape in ? > >>From a file, of course. It reads the paper tape file and executes it, >using vi's `execute macro from buffer' feature to permute the >instruction chain. I remember giving Michael Elbel a copy - you >still got it, Michael? Hmm, now, someone talked about implementing vi(1) for a turing machine a couple of years back, that would be the ultimative recursion :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 02:07:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA23029 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.muc.ditec.de (gw.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA22970; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by gw.muc.ditec.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA18741; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:07:04 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: gw.muc.ditec.de: nobody set sender to using -f Received: from tick.muc.ditec.de(134.98.18.50) by gw.muc.ditec.de via smap (V2.0alpha) id sma018734; Fri Sep 27 11:06:53 1996 Received: (from me@localhost) by tick.muc.ditec.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA12831; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:05:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Elbel Message-Id: <199609270905.LAA12831@tick.muc.ditec.de> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:05:44 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, julian@whistle.com, current@FreeBSD.org, me@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <756.843812682@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Sep 27, 96 01:24:42 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <18101.843799721@time.cdrom.com>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > >> I like it; RC4 in postscript. There are some _sick_ people out there 8) > > > > > >You've clearly never seen the turing machine written in vi. :-) > > >[and I didn't even know you could DO that with vi!] > > > > Uhm, where do you feed the paper tape in ? > > >From a file, of course. It reads the paper tape file and executes it, > using vi's `execute macro from buffer' feature to permute the > instruction chain. I remember giving Michael Elbel a copy - you > still got it, Michael? > Uh, I can't seem to find it on the machines I've got here. If there's real interest, I could try to dig it up though. Michael From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 02:13:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA26589 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-2.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA26470; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA28095; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:08:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609270008.CAA28095@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: "Robert Rutter" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Swapinfo gone ? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 03:39:30 EDT." <199609250739.DAA13036@sparks.empath.on.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:08:55 +0200 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: "Robert J. Rutter" > > I just did a make world and it looks like swapinfo is linked to pstat. Ah Yes, make install install -c -s -o bin -g kmem -m 2555 pstat /usr/sbin /usr/sbin/swapinfo -> /usr/sbin/pstat install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 pstat.8.gz /usr/share/man/man8 /usr/share/man/man8/swapinfo.8.gz -> /usr/share/man/man8/pstat.8.gz I dont know if its new (the sym link creation in the Makefile) (I can't look at my CVS, it's rebuilding from deltas, I had damage) but I wasn't picking up a swapinfo link before, I don't think. But it's exactly what I was hoping for :-) > From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) > Julian, where were you ? On the moon ? :-) > phk 95/05/13 10:26:36 Gosh, a year & a half a go, Gasp !, It's hard remembering what was hacked last week :-) > From: David Greenman > Thus, "swapinfo" in FreeBSD is installed as a symlink to pstat. Great, Thanks all :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 02:40:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA12067 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA11990; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id LAA28588; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:15:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00410; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:11:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:11:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= cc: Jordan Hubbard , FreeBSD-current Subject: Re: Please remove this lines from XFree configuration comes by default In-Reply-To: <199609262105.BAA00683@nagual.ru> Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > Just found in August Snapshot: > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf: > #ifndef UseGnuMalloc > #define UseGnuMalloc YES > #endif > #ifndef GnuMallocLibrary > #define GnuMallocLibrary -lgnumalloc > #endif > > Please, delete this lines in future Snapshots. I'd also suggest to change the CFLAGS from: -m486 -O2 to: -pipe -O2 since many many people are driving Pentiums where m486 isn't that good, and -pipe, because it speeds up compilation. People who want to run X usually have enough memory for this. But if not '-pipe -O2', then at least '-O2' without the -m486 ! -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 02:54:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA20137 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kanto.cc.jyu.fi (root@kanto.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA20056 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 02:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kallio@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kanto.cc.jyu.fi (8.7.2/8.7.2) with ESMTP id MAA28609 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:51:23 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:51:21 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with useradd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In useradd I am getting error ``pwd_mkdb -p'' failed, try to restore ... pwd_mkdb: /etc/spwd.db.tmp: File exists Sorry, give up And when trying again, error message pwd_mkdb: /etc/master.passwd.orig: File exists The reason is clear: someone is changing passwd or some other way using pwd_mkdb. Seppo Kallio kallio@jyu.fi Computing Center Fax +358-14-603611 U of Jyväskylä 62.14N 25.44E Phone +358-14-603606 PL 35, 40351 Jyväskylä, Finland http://www.jyu.fi/~kallio From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 03:17:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA04562 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA04524 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v6Zz4-0008tYC; Fri, 27 Sep 96 03:17 PDT Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA22363; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:13:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Seppo Kallio cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with useradd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I think there is some faulty file-locking going on here with the various utilities. It's trivial to reproduce, just get a few passwd/vipw/chfn's/addusers going at once, and kaboom, this message. So far I've always been able to just remove the master.passwd.orig, and everything is still there, but it sucks the big one On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Seppo Kallio wrote: > Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:51:21 +0300 (EET DST) > From: Seppo Kallio > To: current@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Problems with useradd >=20 >=20 >=20 > In useradd I am getting error >=20 > ``pwd_mkdb -p'' failed, try to restore ... > pwd_mkdb: /etc/spwd.db.tmp: File exists > Sorry, give up >=20 > And when trying again, error message >=20 > pwd_mkdb: /etc/master.passwd.orig: File exists >=20 >=20 > The reason is clear: someone is changing passwd or some other way using > pwd_mkdb. >=20 >=20 > Seppo Kallio=09=09=09=09kallio@jyu.fi > Computing Center=09=09=09Fax +358-14-603611 > U of Jyv=E4skyl=E4=09=0962.14N 25.44E=09Phone +358-14-603606 > PL 35, 40351 Jyv=E4skyl=E4, Finland=09=09http://www.jyu.fi/~kallio >=20 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 03:54:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA28766 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA28719 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id UAA20273; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:49:19 +1000 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:49:19 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609271049.UAA20273@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs Cc: current@freebsd.org, julian@whistle.com Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Even better: don't use malloc(): >> >> main() {} atexit() {} >> >>atexit() is normally linked to and references malloc(), although it >>only calls malloc() when there are a lot of atexits. malloc() now >>uses stdio and stdio uses half the universe. > >Malloc doesn't use stdio if you don't define MALLOC_STATS in it... > >I'm not to happy about that being the default, it doesn't matter for >shlib cases, but for static programs it's a pain. atexit() could use sbrk() instead of malloc(). This would work fairly well since atexit() rarely needs to expands its default of 32 pointers (even 32 is wasteful) and never frees its memory. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 04:13:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA09472 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA09357; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.7.6/8.6.9) id VAA20607; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:01:10 +1000 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:01:10 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199609271101.VAA20607@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@nagual.ru, andreas@klemm.gtn.com Subject: Re: Please remove this lines from XFree configuration comes by default Cc: current@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Just found in August Snapshot: >> >> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf: >... >I'd also suggest to change the CFLAGS from: > > -m486 -O2 >to: > -pipe -O2 > >since many many people are driving Pentiums where m486 isn't that >good, and -pipe, because it speeds up compilation. People who >want to run X usually have enough memory for this. > >But if not '-pipe -O2', then at least '-O2' without the -m486 ! There's also a -O2 -m486 recommendation in /etc/make.conf. -O2 might help for a critical loop in the X server, but I think its advantages are small or negative for general use. gcc-2.7.2 allows fixing the -m486 problems for Pentiums: -m486 -malign-loops=0 -malign-jumps=2 -malign-functions=2 I think even 4-byte alignment for loops is wasteful since misalignment doesn't cost (much?) and alignment costs for execing no-ops to fall through to the loop and for cache to hole these no-ops. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 04:58:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA01561 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA01514; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA01404; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:57:24 +0200 (MET DST) To: Bruce Evans cc: current@freebsd.org, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: BLOAT in minimal programs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:49:19 +1000." <199609271049.UAA20273@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:57:24 +0200 Message-ID: <1402.843825444@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199609271049.UAA20273@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, Bruce Evans writes: >atexit() could use sbrk() instead of malloc(). This would work fairly >well since atexit() rarely needs to expands its default of 32 pointers >(even 32 is wasteful) and never frees its memory. good idea. malloc is safe from this usage. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 05:54:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA14294 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from robin.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA14258 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id IAA01418; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:54:49 -0400 for Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:54:49 -0400 From: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" Message-Id: <199609271254.IAA01418@robin.mcnc.org> To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Any isa drivers for localtalk avail? X-Face: ,fjtWiMPydUaSQl%8[eTg`u:^BXt&T)Sny(6w\*U"5D9H[Z$kG%Q/z;Z=NwrPiXf-aMF3R) Rsand$,]26-8>5@HD(A3A79gN|0%NHsdek4mT8E,>j+\w!~d2#nH;~NV!5a0"`5$Cj8d\or(Jy/JQ_ |uc;C[filmZ(~#lre*l:|O%d/PJFy`.5w8)sMZ-)QI3TaV"j'k Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any drivers (FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD) for hardware appletalk? I have a couple of surplus Dayna DL2000 isa cards. I'd like to build a router for my son's elementary school until they can find the $ to buy a bunch of Mac ethernet cards. TIA - Frank \\\\////\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\ Frank Terhaar-Yonkers, Manager High Performance Computing and Communications Research MCNC PO Box 12889 3021 Cornwallis Road Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709-2889 fty@mcnc.org voice (919)248-1417 FAX (919)248-1455 http://www.mcnc.org/hpcc.html From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 07:44:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26989 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA26875 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.8.0/8.7.3) id AAA05347; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:13:37 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:13:37 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199609271443.AAA05347@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: fty@mcnc.org (Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers), freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any isa drivers for localtalk avail? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199609271254.IAA01418@robin.mcnc.org> you wrote: : Any drivers (FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD) for hardware appletalk? I have : a couple of surplus Dayna DL2000 isa cards. I'd like to build a router : for my son's elementary school until they can find the $ to buy a bunch : of Mac ethernet cards. I take it you mean the ISA card interfaces to LocalTalk type networking cable? I'd say (for freebsd anyway) that nothing like this has been developed. The 2.2-current kernel has appletalk code in it for the protocol stack, but as for drivers i think your stuck. I think there is a product called the Webster GatorBox that will let you route LocalTalk onto EtherNet(ie EtherTalk) which will talk to a FreeBSD 2.2-current box running netatalk fine (for print/file sharing). Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 07:51:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01156 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29827 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA04859; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199609271447.IAA04859@rover.village.org> To: Jake Hamby Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acrobat Reader 3.0 Beta for Linux! (fwd)] Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:58:37 PDT." References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:47:53 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Jake Hamby writes: : I'd like to comment: Notice the wording in the announcement and on : Adobe's Web page which says it _only_ has been tested on Yggdrasil Fall : edition. Does that give you an indication how _afraid_ commercial authors : are of claiming support for the divergent varieties of Linux distributions : out there that they haven't tested? The Linux groups report that it works well everywhere. : Having a single distribution of FreeBSD has always been a _big_ win for : us, IMHO. However the fact that FreeBSD runs a variety of different Linux : versions and is nowhere near 100% compatible from a userland perspective, : implies that the differences between the various Linux flavors are : unlikely to cause programs like Acrobat Reader much trouble. Therefore it : appears that commercial vendors only "support" a single Linux flavor for : political, rather than technical reasons.... Actually, it is a credibility issue. If I say that it works on X Y and Z when I've only tested X and it fails on Y or Z, I've lost credibility. Sure, it should work there, but if it doesn't, then I look bad. We had this same problem when we released OI on Linux. We required libc 4.2 and a kernel newer than 0.99p12. However, we later found out that libc 4.4 broke binary compatibility for C++ programs (who care about those anyway)... It was a mess. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 08:58:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA10549 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from remote.transarc.com (remote.transarc.com [158.98.16.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10511 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by remote.transarc.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02702; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:58:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:57:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Barron To: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any isa drivers for localtalk avail? In-Reply-To: <199609271254.IAA01418@robin.mcnc.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers wrote: > Any drivers (FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD) for hardware appletalk? I have > a couple of surplus Dayna DL2000 isa cards. I'd like to build a router > for my son's elementary school until they can find the $ to buy a bunch > of Mac ethernet cards. I tried a while back to get programming specs out Dayna for this card, and was unsuccessful. They told me they provide drivers for DOS/Windows, and that's it - anyone who wants to write their own driver is pretty much out of luck, as far as they're concerned. I'd be willing to help out with such a project, *if* I could get the info.... --Pat. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 11:52:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28765 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28661; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from base.jnx.com (base.jnx.com [208.197.169.238]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01578; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pst@localhost) by base.jnx.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03873; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199609271852.LAA03873@base.jnx.com> To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: getting stung by recent bad directory panics... Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I understand that there's a bug with spare directory files that has been uncovered recently, and that a patch is under review by Kirk. Could someone send me any bug fixes, patches, whatever *ASAP*. This is causing lots of trouble over here. Thanks, Paul From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 12:12:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12476 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-20.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12255; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA20468; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:57:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609271557.RAA20468@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: A JOSEPH KOSHY cc: phk@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ctm & disc full From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:26:48 +0500." <199609250426.AA112135608@fakir.india.hp.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:57:33 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: A JOSEPH KOSHY > > There are a couple of new options in -current CTM that may help you: > > -B filename backups whatever would be modified to `filename' before > applying any patches. > > -l shows what would be touched > > -e regex specify `include' and `exclude' regexes which you can > -x regex use to touch parts of the source tree Ah, Thanks Joseph, -B wasn't in my /usr/sbin tree from 1 Sep, so I've recompiled & installed the new stuff. > Something like the following would be helpful > > cd your-source-directory > > for i in somewhere/ctm-files*.gz; do > > ctm -B $i.back -v -v $i # apply CTM patch > > if [ $? = 0 ]; then # all ok > rm -f $i.back > else > echo "ctm patch $i failed." > exit 1 > fi > > done > Hey that sounds good ! > So if you do encounter problems you could > > Run: > ctm -l ctm-file.gz > list-of-files-that-change > > Then: > ctm -e exp -x exp -e exp ... ctm-file.gz > > to selectively update what got missed out. > > OR: > restore from the backup file and re-apply the Ctm patch. > > Hope this helps, > Koshy Right, I'm modifying my shell script now to do this, Thanks Koshy But I need that -B available to ctm_rmail & it's not there ... so I've added it, patch attached. (also available as http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/generic/\ usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.c.backup.diff ) ------------- This allows ctm_rmail -B backup_dir to pass the -B backup_dir down to ctm -B backup_dir I didn't bother to test it, i've simply compiled & installed it on my (jhs@freebsd.org) system 960927. *** old/src/usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.c Fri Sep 27 18:19:04 1996 --- new/src/usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.c Fri Sep 27 18:51:17 1996 *************** *** 28,33 **** --- 28,34 ---- char *piece_dir = NULL; /* Where to store pieces of deltas. */ char *delta_dir = NULL; /* Where to store completed deltas. */ char *base_dir = NULL; /* The tree to apply deltas to. */ + char *backup_dir = NULL; /* The tree to make backups in. */ int delete_after = 0; /* Delete deltas after ctm applies them. */ int apply_verbose = 0; /* Run with '-v' */ int set_time = 0; /* Set the time of the files that is changed. */ *************** *** 62,68 **** err_prog_name(argv[0]); ! OPTIONS("[-Dfuv] [-p piecedir] [-d deltadir] [-b basedir] [-l log] [file ...]") FLAG('D', delete_after) FLAG('f', fork_ctm) FLAG('u', set_time) --- 63,69 ---- err_prog_name(argv[0]); ! OPTIONS("[-Dfuv] [-p piecedir] [-d deltadir] [-b basedir] [-B backup_dir] [-l log] [file ...]") FLAG('D', delete_after) FLAG('f', fork_ctm) FLAG('u', set_time) *************** *** 71,76 **** --- 72,78 ---- STRING('d', delta_dir) STRING('b', base_dir) STRING('l', log_file) + STRING('B', backup_dir) ENDOPTS if (delta_dir == NULL) *************** *** 198,206 **** if (stat(fname, &sb) < 0) break; ! sprintf(buf, "(cd %s && ctm %s%s%s%s) 2>&1", base_dir, set_time ? "-u " : "", ! apply_verbose ? "-v " : "", here, fname); if ((ctm = popen(buf, "r")) == NULL) { err("ctm failed to apply %s", delta); --- 200,211 ---- if (stat(fname, &sb) < 0) break; ! sprintf(buf, "(cd %s && ctm %s%s%s%s%s%s) 2>&1", base_dir, set_time ? "-u " : "", ! apply_verbose ? "-v " : "", ! (backup_dir == NULL) ? "" : "-B ", ! (backup_dir == NULL) ? "" : backup_dir, ! here, fname); if ((ctm = popen(buf, "r")) == NULL) { err("ctm failed to apply %s", delta); *** old/src/usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.1 Fri Sep 27 19:11:06 1996 --- new/src/usr.sbin/ctm/ctm_rmail/ctm_rmail.1 Sat Aug 31 11:49:56 1996 *************** *** 26,32 **** .Op Fl p Ar piecedir .Op Fl d Ar deltadir .Op Fl b Ar basedir - .Op Fl B Ar backup_dir .Op Ar .Sh DESCRIPTION In conjuction with the --- 26,31 ---- *************** *** 119,128 **** (or if .Li .ctm_status does not exist). - .It Fl B Ar backup_dir - Specify a backup directory for use by - .Nm ctm - .Fl B .It Fl D Delete deltas after successful application by .Xr ctm . --- 118,123 ---- ------------- Maybe someone will want to test the patch or commit it later ? Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 12:13:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA13352 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-20.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13158; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17618; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:19:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609271219.OAA17618@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ctm & disc full From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Phone: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:23:13 +0200." <663.843585793@critter.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:19:15 +0200 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: Poul-Henning Kamp > > In message <199609241334.PAA07476@vector.jhs.no_domain>, "Julian H. Stacey" w - ri > tes: > >No great problem if applying manually, > >But could be problematic for those who have procmail applying ctm patches > >in background mode, if the disc fills up. > > > >In an ideal world .ctm_status could record both start of application > >& end of succesful application, but that'd need a patch, & some discussion, > >meantime, could you document the hazard ? > > The solution is to implement this: > > cd /home > rm -rf ncvs.tmp > mkdir ncvs.tmp > cd ncvs > find . -print | cpio -dumpl ../ncvs.tmp > cd ../ncvs.tmp > if ctm -v ; then > cd .. > mv ncvs ncvs.old > mv ncvs.tmp ncvs > rm -rf ncvs.old > fi Man cpio has do dumpl or even dump, are you using a non standard cpio ? I see no variant of cpio from echo /usr/ports/*/*pi* Catching your drift though, one could use tar or cpio to copy the cvs/ tree, apply the diff & then move tree, but I dont have the 250M spare for a 2nd transient cvs/ tree, neither do I want to incur the mega processing load per ctm patch, so I don't find this solution very attractive. That's not to denigrate it though, it is at least _a_ solution, if I had an idle system, hundreds of Meg free, & was in no rush to apply ctms quickly I'd adopt it, ... but then I'd probably be more immune to disc overflows in the first place :-). Puting a `start of application & end of succesful application' double stamp in the .ctm_ file would run at minimal overhead, but would still leave one with a broken tree. However, it would detect errors on overflow quicker than at present. At present if succesive ctms happen to touch different areas, one may be unaware for a while longer, of a tree broken through overflow. BTW I did a quick check in /usr/src/ctm/ctm/*.c: all 4 write() invocations are protected by if != Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 12:43:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06416 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from robin.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06313 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by robin.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id PAA04963; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:43:14 -0400 for Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:43:14 -0400 From: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" Message-Id: <199609271943.PAA04963@robin.mcnc.org> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Subject: Re: Any isa drivers for localtalk avail? X-Face: ,fjtWiMPydUaSQl%8[eTg`u:^BXt&T)Sny(6w\*U"5D9H[Z$kG%Q/z;Z=NwrPiXf-aMF3R) Rsand$,]26-8>5@HD(A3A79gN|0%NHsdek4mT8E,>j+\w!~d2#nH;~NV!5a0"`5$Cj8d\or(Jy/JQ_ |uc;C[filmZ(~#lre*l:|O%d/PJFy`.5w8)sMZ-)QI3TaV"j'k Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Right, I'm talking about the physical layer. I have both a (Cayman) Gatorbox and a Shiva Fastpath to try as well which may, or may not work. All this is surplus "give away" junk in unknown condition - except the Dayna cards which are unused-sealed in the original box. I'll write the driver if I can get support from CopsTalk Inc, who has bought the rights to, and is currently selling the Dayna card. >From: Peter Childs > >In article <199609271254.IAA01418@robin.mcnc.org> you wrote: >: Any drivers (FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD) for hardware appletalk? I have >: a couple of surplus Dayna DL2000 isa cards. I'd like to build a router >: for my son's elementary school until they can find the $ to buy a bunch >: of Mac ethernet cards. > > I take it you mean the ISA card interfaces to LocalTalk type > networking cable? I'd say (for freebsd anyway) that nothing like > this has been developed. > > The 2.2-current kernel has appletalk code in it for the protocol > stack, but as for drivers i think your stuck. > > I think there is a product called the Webster GatorBox that > will let you route LocalTalk onto EtherNet(ie EtherTalk) which > will talk to a FreeBSD 2.2-current box running netatalk fine > (for print/file sharing). > > Peter > >-- > Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds > Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key > Drag me, drop me, treat me like an object! > \\\\////\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\ Frank Terhaar-Yonkers, Manager High Performance Computing and Communications Research MCNC PO Box 12889 3021 Cornwallis Road Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709-2889 fty@mcnc.org voice (919)248-1417 FAX (919)248-1455 http://www.mcnc.org/hpcc.html From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 13:03:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA21236 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA21195; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10278; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:01:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199609272001.NAA10278@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Please remove this lines from XFree configuration comes by default To: ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:01:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609262105.BAA00683@nagual.ru> from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Sep 27, 96 01:05:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just found in August Snapshot: > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config/FreeBSD.cf: > #ifndef UseGnuMalloc > #define UseGnuMalloc YES > #endif > #ifndef GnuMallocLibrary > #define GnuMallocLibrary -lgnumalloc > #endif > > Please, delete this lines in future Snapshots. What about the fonts.dir problem... has that been resolved in the new snapshots? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 16:58:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25761 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terd.triskelion.com (root@danj.port.net [207.38.236.113]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25714 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fnur.triskelion.com (fnur.triskelion.com [180.200.1.3]) by terd.triskelion.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA01065 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <324C6969.167EB0E7@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:55:21 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: State of SMP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been looking high and low... what is the state of SMP under FreeBSD-anything? I am considering the purchase of a Tyan Tomcat II Dual-Pentium Motherboard, and, well, you know... Thanks, Dan -- danj@netcom.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 21:07:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA17969 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17910 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.6/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA29921; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 04:07:36 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:07:36 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: State of SMP In-Reply-To: <324C6969.167EB0E7@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Dan Janowski wrote: > I've been looking high and low... what is the > state of SMP under FreeBSD-anything? I am considering > the purchase of a Tyan Tomcat II Dual-Pentium Motherboard, > and, well, you know... subscribe to freebsd-smp@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Sep 27 22:06:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA18598 for current-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18542 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 22:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by diablo.ppp.de (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0v6rbn-000QlYC; Sat, 28 Sep 96 07:06 MET DST Received: from [193.141.161.123] (monster.pong.ppp.de [193.141.161.123]) by pong.PPP.DE (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA03103; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:36:44 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: stefan@pong.ppp.de (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199609271254.IAA01418@robin.mcnc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:38:42 +0200 To: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" , current@FreeBSD.org From: Stefan Bethke Subject: Re: Any isa drivers for localtalk avail? Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 8:54 Uhr -0400 27.09.1996, Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers wrote: >Any drivers (FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD) for hardware appletalk? I have >a couple of surplus Dayna DL2000 isa cards. I'd like to build a router >for my son's elementary school until they can find the $ to buy a bunch >of Mac ethernet cards. There used to be a linux driver for the old Apple LocalTalk PC card; I've tried to figure from that how the card works, but didn't. I believe the Apple card is totally braindamaged, so drop them in the bin (I had three of them :-( COPS seems to be the only vendor of any LocalTalk board (ISA/EISA/MCA/PCI), and they bought the designs from Dayna, so they're the ones to talk to. COPS has some sample code availible at http://www.copstalk.com/ltdev/ltdev.html They also maintain a mailing list, and at least one employee posted in comp.protocols.appletalk a few days ago. After having the driver, one would have to adapt the kernel AppleTalk to work with non-ethernet-ifs (maybe this has been done already, im not current). Hope this helps, Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Hamburg, Germany From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 01:12:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA28688 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA28647 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA14866 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324CDD35.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:09:25 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Locking snafu in -current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This seems to have been present for a long time.. massively 'overthrashed machine eventually hangs as all processes end up stopped in ufslk2 wait or flock wait (according to /proc or top) My test system appears to be going that way now but hasn't totally stopped. the major waiters seem to have the following stack trqace: #0 ufs_lock (ap=0xefbffeb8) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:1699 #1 0xf01ae5d1 in vnode_pager_lock (object=0xf0a99980) at ./vnode_if.h:731 #2 0xf01a141c in vm_fault (map=0xf0a6b900, vaddr=134692864, fault_type=1 '\001', change_wiring=0) at ../../vm/vm_fault.c:203 #3 0xf01baffc in trap_pfault (frame=0xefbfffbc, usermode=1) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:632 #4 0xf01bab87 in trap (frame={tf_es = 134938663, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 369511, tf_esi = 3, tf_ebp = -272641892, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 369500, tf_edx = 9, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = -272642295, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 4, tf_eip = 134693728, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 66118, tf_esp = -272642240, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:239 #5 0xf01b33c7 in calltrap () though this may be a red-herring as I can't tell which of these processes might eventually wake up and which are hung.. several dozen processes at a time might suddenly be waiting on some ufs lock but at some stage it appears that the process that has the lock dies and everything stops.. at this stage the system is stil alive but I have the following dump of /proc/*/status: [frame1.whistle.com] 23tcat /proc/*/status swapper 0 0 0 0 -1,-1 sldr 843891950,0 0,0 0,969130 sched 0 0 0,0 init 1 0 1 1 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,84674 0,299617 wait 0 0 0,0 tcsh 106 1 106 106 12,0 ctty,sldr -1,-1 1,190232 4,322808 ttyin 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 filterd 112 1 112 112 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,170151 0,226868 pause 0 0 0,0 gated 120 1 120 0 -1,-1 noflags 843891998,981426 1,700206 17,507528 vnread 0 0 0,0 sniffd 127 1 127 127 -1,-1 sldr 843892001,572723 50,462111 130,962864 nochan 0 0 0,0 named 135 1 135 135 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,116476 13,992701 select 0 0 0,0 httpd 146 1 146 146 -1,-1 sldr 843892016,688153 1,376891 5,499697 wait 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 httpd 149 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,689781 13,521276 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 httpd 151 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,349235 5,774020 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 ftpd 161 1 161 161 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,11453 0,17179 accept 0 0 0,0 sendmail 177 1 177 177 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,340166 12,616397 accept 0 0 0,0 sendmail 178 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,362334 1,630503 lockf 0 0 0,0 pagedaemon 2 0 0 0 -1,-1 noflags 843891950,16727 0,0 261,130720 psleep 0 0 0,0 atalkd 200 1 200 0 -1,-1 noflags 843892047,403006 1,506592 11,314974 select 0 0 0,0 afpd 213 1 195 0 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,522152 8,346526 sbwait 0 0 0,0 smbd 221 1 221 221 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,0 0,29129 accept 0 0 0,0 nmbd 223 1 223 223 -1,-1 sldr 843892093,987846 1,329655 9,722624 select 0 0 0,0 sendmail 230 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,273136 1,451527 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 235 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,307113 1,323513 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 237 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,293162 1,311518 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 240 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,317234 1,284042 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 245 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,290719 1,406453 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 248 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,253944 1,331282 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 256 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,319580 1,366204 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 258 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,357550 1,298063 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 260 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,324134 1,335124 lockf 0 0 0,0 getty 262 1 262 262 28,0 ctty,sldr -1,-1 0,64743 0,56650 ttyin 0 0 0,0 httpd 268 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,512358 6,324419 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 httpd 269 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,442213 14,11181 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 sendmail 283 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 1,205100 12,560853 lockf 0 0 0,0 vmdaemon 3 0 0 0 -1,-1 noflags 843891950,18048 0,0 15,822656 psleep 0 0 0,0 httpd 308 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,218772 726,982402 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 sendmail 309 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 1,166202 19,872092 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 325 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 1,229310 14,221587 lockf 0 0 0,0 httpd 326 146 146 146 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,217683 22,817913 accept 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 sendmail 340 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 1,175623 20,188029 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 354 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,868756 21,147577 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 356 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 1,29939 358,184882 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 377 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,748467 15,468319 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 384 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,820566 10,620912 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 394 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,779351 5,403506 lockf 0 0 0,0 update 4 0 0 0 -1,-1 noflags 843891950,18141 0,0 4,136158 update 0 0 0,0 paneld 40 1 40 40 -1,-1 sldr 843891978,367099 4,461534 7,731289 select 0 0 0,0 sendmail 400 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,568258 4,269417 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 407 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,636948 4,190048 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 411 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,573944 3,427725 lockf 0 0 0,0 restartd 42 1 42 42 -1,-1 sldr 843891978,587161 0,344955 2,53304 select 0 0 0,0 sendmail 421 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,546195 3,255322 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 428 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,560586 3,148498 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 431 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,496855 2,657426 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 438 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,429439 2,699336 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 440 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,468329 2,802541 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 445 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,374571 2,255750 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 447 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,369364 2,336634 lockf 0 0 0,0 sendmail 453 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,310400 2,10209 lockf 0 0 0,0 telnetd 458 89 458 458 -1,-1 sldr 843897550,663780 0,190723 0,440131 select 0 0 0,0 tcsh 459 458 459 459 5,0 ctty,sldr 843897552,813667 0,628812 0,745800 pause 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 sendmail 464 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags 843897574,892285 0,402615 1,742086 lockf 0 0 0,0 cron 468 77 77 77 -1,-1 noflags 843897601,288027 0,0 0,40903 piperd 0 0 0,0 cat 469 459 469 459 5,0 ctty 843897601,455747 0,15564 0,420248 nochan 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 sh 470 468 470 470 -1,-1 sldr 843897601,717028 0,8824 0,114718 wait 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 syslogd 75 1 75 75 -1,-1 sldr 843891986,30776 2,322467 19,973221 select 0 0 0,0 cron 77 1 77 77 -1,-1 sldr 843891986,826365 0,364523 27,618492 pause 0 0 0,0 inetd 89 1 89 89 -1,-1 sldr -1,-1 0,50930 0,263141 select 0 0 0,0 pwcheck 96 1 5 0 12,0 noflags -1,-1 0,44474 0,74123 accept 0 0 0,0 cat 469 459 469 459 5,0 ctty 843897601,455747 0,15423 0,431849 nochan 0 0 0,0,0,2,3,4,5,20,31 notice all the sendmails in 'lockf' wait. I can suspend the system at this moment and wander around using gdb. I can even get anyone else into the system over the net and give them a gdb session to poke around in this system I'm kinda not sure of what to look at to try work out what the problem is.. right now I removed the external load, so the system is responsive, but the sendmails are all still locked.. ALT> drops it into the remote-gdb debugger if I need to look at something.... any suggestions? julian From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 02:12:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA02130 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s205m1.whistle.com [207.76.205.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA02073 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA15432 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324CEB39.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 02:09:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Locking snafu in -current References: <324CDD35.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: > > This seems to have been present for a long time.. looking at the hung process 447 sendmail 447 177 177 177 -1,-1 noflags -1,-1 0,369364 2,336634 lockf 0 0 we see it is waiting on a lock structure.. (lockf lock string) in the proc structure: p_wchan = 0xf0ae58c0, p_wmesg = 0xf01e17d4 "lockf", print *(struct lockf *) 0xf0ae58c0 yields $20 = { lf_flags = 48, lf_type = 3, lf_start = 0x0000000000000000, lf_end = 0xffffffffffffffff, lf_id = 0xf0ad0cc0 "\200^\n@\001", lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0ad8080 } following lf_head yields: $21 = (struct lockf *) 0xf0a9f900 which is the same as "lf_next" (?) but backtracking through the "lf_block yields: (in sequence) lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0aebf00 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0af4940 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0af4100 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0af9c00 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0af9640 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0afcc00 lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0xf0afcd40 $29 = { lf_flags = 48, lf_type = 3, lf_start = 0x0000000000000000, lf_end = 0xffffffffffffffff, lf_id = 0xf0afca00 "", lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, lf_block = 0x0 } Now we have reached the head of the locking chain.. now we notice that ALL of these lock structures are pointing to lf_next = 0xf0a9f900, which is where the original 'head' was pointing. If we take the hint and go there.. we see: $30 = { lf_flags = 48, lf_type = 3, lf_start = 0x0000000000000000, lf_end = 0xffffffffffffffff, lf_id = 0xf0a9fb80 "\200", lf_head = 0xf0a9d530, lf_next = 0x0, lf_block = 0xf0a9f200 } so if we start at the head, there is no forward pointer to all those lock structures we back-tracked through.. This is all very confusing as the lf_id is different for all these as well. it doesn't make sense to me.. if anyone has a suggestion as to what to look at next, I'll leave the machine inthe debugger and can look at snything over the weekend.... there's deffinitly a bug, but I don't know what. possibly it's in sendmail, but.. who knows. julian From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 04:20:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA10444 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 04:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.177]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA10384; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 04:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07079; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:19:59 +0200 (MET DST) To: dyson@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: my 4M machine just croaked... Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:19:58 +0200 Message-ID: <7077.843909598@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A very -current kernel, it croaked with something about wire-count or something... Didn't get more than a glance before it rebooted. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 06:13:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28769 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA28654; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id PAA23434; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:00:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.gtn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01470; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:08:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:08:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: current@freebsd.org cc: ports@freebsd.org Subject: throwing objects in nethack when playing on the console is horrible;) Message-ID: X-try-apsfilter: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz X-Fax: +49 2137 2018 X-Phone: +49 2137 2020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Is there a known curses problem with nethack 3.2.1 ?! Did somebody else try to play nethack 3.2.1 on the console ?! Try throwing objects, the screen is in a mess after that, redrawing the screen with ^r or ^l doesn't help ! My machine, very current: FreeBSD klemm.gtn.com 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Mon Sep 23 11:14:44 MET DST 1996 root@klemm.gtn.com:/usr/sys.bisdn/compile/BISDN i386 Would be nice if you could tell me your experiences ! Andreas /// -- andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 06:21:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA04868 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA04826 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA19343 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:20:59 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA06642 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:20:59 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA01664 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 14:30:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199609281230.OAA01664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: RAM parity error To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 14:30:58 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199609180316.UAA11084@root.com> from David Greenman at "Sep 17, 96 08:16:07 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > *Very* interesting... > > >#4 0xf01b4b61 in calltrap () > >#5 0xf0194652 in scsi_scsi_cmd () > >#6 0xf0198269 in sdstart () > > I'll bet that the real traceback has a "#4.5" that is ahc_scsi_cmd(). gdb > often doesn't decode the traceback correctly since it doesn't deal with > trapframes correctly. Btw., the handbook section about kernel debugging describes a procedure how to trace over the `calltrap' frame. Basically, you need to recompile trap.c with -g support, then (gdb) up 3 (gdb) frame frame->tf_ebp frame->tf_eip -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 06:27:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA09290 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA09255 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA12914; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:26:55 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:26:55 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9609281326.AA12914@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: J Wunsch Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Subject: Re: RAM parity error In-Reply-To: <199609281230.OAA01664@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199609180316.UAA11084@root.com> <199609281230.OAA01664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > (gdb) up 3 > (gdb) frame frame->tf_ebp frame->tf_eip IWBRNI someone would fix GDB (preferably 4.16) to understand trap frames to at least the same extend as DDB does. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 07:11:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12382 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birk04.studby.uio.no (root@birk04.studby.uio.no [129.240.214.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA11113; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from aagero@localhost) by birk04.studby.uio.no (8.7.6/sendmail95) id QAA01402; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:09:07 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:09:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609281409.QAA01402@birk04.studby.uio.no> From: "Åge Røbekk" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com CC: current@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Andreas Klemm on Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:08:09 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: throwing objects in nethack when playing on the console is horrible;) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk | Is there a known curses problem with nethack 3.2.1 ?! | Did somebody else try to play nethack 3.2.1 on the console ?! | Try throwing objects, the screen is in a mess after that, | redrawing the screen with ^r or ^l doesn't help ! One thing you can try to fix it temporarily is to exit into a shell with `!' and return. What this does is some terminal driver shutdown and restart, which somehow sets the terminal in the correct mode. A more permanent but not neccesarily correct fix is to change tty_init_nhwindows() in $TOP/win/tty/wintty.c to mimic the shell escape code. --- nethack-3.2.1/win/tty/wintty.c Fri Jul 19 07:20:45 1996 +++ wintty.c.ny Sat Sep 28 16:05:17 1996 @@ -260,6 +260,7 @@ /* to port dependant tty setup */ tty_startup(&wid, &hgt); + gettty(); setftty(); /* calls start_screen */ /* set up tty descriptor */ I mailed nethack-bugs@linc.cis.upenn.edu about this problem, but we never settled about the nature of this problem. -aage From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 09:40:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08719 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08638 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12852; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:40:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199609281640.KAA12852@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: current@freefall.freebsd.org cc: Dan Janowski Subject: Re: State of SMP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:40:03 -0600 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Dan asked: >I've been looking high and low... what is the >state of SMP under FreeBSD-anything? I am considering >the purchase of a Tyan Tomcat II Dual-Pentium Motherboard, >and, well, you know... check out: http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html I believe you will see the Tomcat II mentioned there. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 12:00:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21713 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21673; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcpsj.pfcs.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0v73jT-0008tNC; Sat, 28 Sep 96 11:03 PDT Received: from mumps.pfcs.com (mumps.pfcs.com [192.52.69.11]) by pcpsj.pfcs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14908; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:59:09 -0400 Received: from localhost by mumps.pfcs.com with SMTP id AA15244 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:58:41 -0400 To: Mark Mayo Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.0.2 for FreeBSD released [Java Development Kit] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:01:44 EDT." Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:58:40 -0300 Message-Id: <15242.843933520@mumps.pfcs.com> From: Harlan Stenn Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is this package mirrored anywhere? I'm not having much luck trying to download it from freefall. Thanks... H From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 12:39:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA23160 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp.DK.net (uucp@uucp.DK.net [193.88.44.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23109; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pingnet (uucp@localhost) by uucp.DK.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id VAA09429; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:39:17 +0200 Received: from kyklopen by ic1.ic.dk with UUCP id AA07247 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j); Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:29:32 +0200 Received: (from staff@localhost) by kyklopen.ping.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA09155; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:25:19 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:25:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thomas Sparrevohn X-Sender: staff@kyklopen To: Andreas Klemm Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: throwing objects in nethack when playing on the console is horrible;) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: ISO_8859-1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hi ! > > Is there a known curses problem with nethack 3.2.1 ?! > Did somebody else try to play nethack 3.2.1 on the console ?! > Try throwing objects, the screen is in a mess after that, > redrawing the screen with ^r or ^l doesn't help ! > > My machine, very current: > FreeBSD klemm.gtn.com 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Mon Sep 23 11:14:44 MET DST 1996 root@klemm.gtn.com:/usr/sys.bisdn/compile/BISDN i386 > > Would be nice if you could tell me your experiences ! > I have the same problem here. with FreeBSD kyklopen.ping.dk 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sat Sep 28 12:27:02 MET DST 1996 roottcsh@kyklopen.ping.dk:/usr/src/sys/compile/KYKLOPEN i386 > Andreas /// > > -- > andreas@klemm.gtn.com /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ Support Unix -- andreas.klemm@wup.de > pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 20:19:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02383 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.ec.camitel.com (174.ec.camitel.com [206.231.123.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02266 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 20:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccote@localhost) by gandalf.ec.camitel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id XAA06124; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609290322.XAA06124@gandalf.ec.camitel.com> From: Claude Cote To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems with mail-aliasing using NIS Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have some problems with mail-aliasing using NIS. Here's the setup: - All the machines on the network shared the same /var/mail via NFS (but the mail is processed locally); - The NIS master holds the real (complete) /etc/aliases file; - I have commented out the keyword "aliases" in /var/yp/Makefile so the map mail.aliases get created when I type 'make' in /var/yp; - On the client side, I changed the following line in /etc/sendmail.cf: # location of alias file O AliasFile=/etc/aliases,nis:mail.aliases and run newaliases; - I rebooted everyone to be sure... Now, if I add the alias "toto" and do a "mail toto" on the server, it's ok. But if I do a "mail toto" on the client I got the following message: toto... User unknown Here's the output of "ypcat mail.aliases": # ypcat mail.aliases root @ root root root postmaster root root root root root root ccote is it ok? BTW, the NIS master server is running -current of last Monday (23 sep) and the clients are running 2.2-960801-SNAP. All the others NIS databases (passwd, group, hosts, ...) are working just fine. I have checked all the manpages, FAQ and handbook (the NIS section is empty) without success :-( Anybody have a clue? Thanks, Claude Cote (ccote@ec.camitel.com) From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 21:10:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05405 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05338 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 21:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA09193; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:10:09 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199609290410.AAA09193@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Problems with mail-aliasing using NIS To: ccote@gandalf.ec.camitel.com (Claude Cote) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 00:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609290322.XAA06124@gandalf.ec.camitel.com> from "Claude Cote" at Sep 28, 96 11:22:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Claude Cote had to walk into mine and say: > Hi, > > I have some problems with mail-aliasing using NIS. Here's the setup: > > - All the machines on the network shared the same /var/mail via NFS > (but the mail is processed locally); > - The NIS master holds the real (complete) /etc/aliases file; > - I have commented out the keyword "aliases" in /var/yp/Makefile > so the map mail.aliases get created when I type 'make' in /var/yp; I think you mean 'I uncommented the "aliases" keyword.' Doesn't make sense the other way. > - On the client side, I changed the following line in /etc/sendmail.cf: > > # location of alias file > O AliasFile=/etc/aliases,nis:mail.aliases I think the syntax is right. Lord knows sendmail would have complained if it wasn't. :) > and run newaliases; > - I rebooted everyone to be sure... You don't need to reboot, just restart sendmail. This isn't Windoze, you know. > Now, if I add the alias "toto" and do a "mail toto" on the server, This is not a complete description. Who is 'toto' aliased to? How did you add it? > it's ok. But if I do a "mail toto" on the client I got the following > message: > > toto... User unknown > > Here's the output of "ypcat mail.aliases": > > # ypcat mail.aliases > root > @ > root > root > root > postmaster > root > root > root > root > root > root > ccote > > is it ok? No, it's not okay: you should have done ypcat -k mail.aliases so that we could see the 'key' part of the aliases map too (the left side of the aliases database). From what you've shown here, I can't tell if the 'toto' alias is actually there. > BTW, the NIS master server is running -current of last Monday (23 sep) > and the clients are running 2.2-960801-SNAP. All the others NIS databases > (passwd, group, hosts, ...) are working just fine. You must have compiled -current yourself: check that the latest /var/yp/Makefile was installed (it's in the source tree as /usr/src/usr.sbin/ypserv/Makefile.yp). I'm a little suspicious of the spurious '@' in the output you showed; this may have been the result of bugs in the mkaliases script. This script is no longer used, so if it's still on your system, erase it, and if your /var/yp/Makefile still calls it, then it needs to be updated. > I have checked all the manpages, FAQ and handbook (the NIS section is > empty) without success :-( > > Anybody have a clue? You say you 'added' the toto alias on the server, yet you don't say exactly how. This makes it very hard for me to tell if you did it correctly. Bear in mind that you must add aliases like this: - Edit /etc/aliases - cd /var/yp; make /var/yp/Makefile should do the rest for you. You can confirm this by doing a yp_mkdb -u /var/yp//mail.aliases (which dumps out the actual map database) or ypcat -k mail.aliases (which shows you both the key and data parts of the mail.aliases map via ypserv). Since you say it works on the server, it sounds like you updated the standard aliases database on the server but didn't actually update the mail.aliases NIS map. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "If you're ever in trouble, go to the CTR. Ask for Bill. He will help you." ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Sat Sep 28 23:21:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA02604 for current-outgoing; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.ec.camitel.com (174.ec.camitel.com [206.231.123.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA02546 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccote@localhost) by gandalf.ec.camitel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id CAA06931; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 02:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 02:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609290624.CAA06931@gandalf.ec.camitel.com> From: Claude Cote To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu CC: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Re: Problems with mail-aliasing using NIS Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Bill, I'm very grateful for your help. Sorry for my bad English... it sometimes makes me write things I don't really mean %-} So this time, I'll try to make things a little more explicit. >> - I have commented out the keyword "aliases" in /var/yp/Makefile >> so the map mail.aliases get created when I type 'make' in /var/yp; > > I think you mean 'I uncommented the "aliases" keyword.' Doesn't make > sense the other way. In fact, what I really mean is that I appended aliases to the rule all, like this: all: master.passwd passwd hosts group networks protocols rpc \ services servers netid aliases >> - On the client side, I changed the following line in /etc/sendmail.cf: >> >> # location of alias file >> O AliasFile=/etc/aliases,nis:mail.aliases > >I think the syntax is right. Lord knows sendmail would have complained >if it wasn't. :) Undoubtedly :-) > You don't need to reboot, just restart sendmail. This isn't Windoze, > you know. Hopefully! I used to send signals, but since nothing was working, I decided to reboot (to be sure that no esoteric forces was taking over the machine ;-) > This is not a complete description. Who is 'toto' aliased to? How did > you add it? I simply added the following line at the end of the original /etc/aliases: toto: ccote In French, toto means foobar... it's just a test. Obviously, ccote is a valid user on the system. > No, it's not okay: you should have done ypcat -k mail.aliases so > that we could see the 'key' part of the aliases map too (the left > side of the aliases database). From what you've shown here, I can't > tell if the 'toto' alias is actually there. Oops! Here's the output of ypcat -k mail.aliases: ingres root @ @ bin root postmaster root webmaster root mailer-daemon postmaster nobody root daemon root toor root games root system root uucp root toto ccote >> BTW, the NIS master server is running -current of last Monday (23 sep) >> and the clients are running 2.2-960801-SNAP. All the others NIS databases >> (passwd, group, hosts, ...) are working just fine. > > You must have compiled -current yourself: check that the latest > /var/yp/Makefile was installed (it's in the source tree as I make a diff and it's the good one. > /usr/src/usr.sbin/ypserv/Makefile.yp). I'm a little suspicious of > the spurious '@' in the output you showed; this may have been the > result of bugs in the mkaliases script. This script is no longer > used, so if it's still on your system, erase it, and if your > /var/yp/Makefile still calls it, then it needs to be updated. Ok, I move mkaliases. But it doesn't appear in /var/yp/Makefile anyway. Cut from /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/RELEASE_NOTES: Check for @:@ entry in NIS maps before starting up to avoid (but not prevent, sigh) race conditions. This ought to ... Fix a problem that caused aliaswait to go into infinite recursion if the @:@ metasymbol wasn't found in the alias file. > - Edit /etc/aliases > - cd /var/yp; make > Here's the output of the above commands: NIS Map update started on Sun Sep 29 01:29:22 EDT 1996 for domain gandalf Updating mail.aliases... /etc/aliases: 12 aliases, longest 10 bytes, 131 bytes total Pushed mail.aliases map. NIS Map update completed. > /var/yp/Makefile should do the rest for you. You can confirm this > by doing a yp_mkdb -u /var/yp//mail.aliases (which dumps > out the actual map database) or ypcat -k mail.aliases (which shows > you both the key and data parts of the mail.aliases map via ypserv). The command ypcat -k mail.aliases give me the same result than above and yp_mkdb -u /var/yp/gandalf/mail.aliases in addition outputs the following lines: YP_OUTPUT_FILE /var/yp/gandalf/mail.aliases YP_MASTER_NAME gandalf.ec.camitel.com YP_LAST_MODIFIED 843974963 YP_INPUT_FILE /etc/aliases > Since you say it works on the server, it sounds like you updated > the standard aliases database on the server but didn't actually update > the mail.aliases NIS map. The dates of /etc/aliases, /etc/aliases.db and /var/yp/gandalf/mail.aliases all correspond, so it seems that the files have been updated correctly... Maybe something is missing on the client side? I will keep on working... And again, thanks for your help, it's greatly appreciated, Claude > -Bill > > -- > ============================================================================= > -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu > Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research > Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City > ============================================================================= > "If you're ever in trouble, go to the CTR. Ask for Bill. He will help you." > =============================================================================