From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 00:27:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA27825 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 00:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27818 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 00:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.7.4/8.6.12) id SAA01557 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:38:54 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199603030838.SAA01557@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: ext2fs To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:38:53 +1000 (EST) From: "Ernie Elu" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering what is the correct syntax for mounting a Linux ext2fs file system? I tried mount -t ext2fs /dev/sd1 /mnt and it gave:- Wrong magic number: 8867 (expected ef53 for EXT2FS) The patition I am trying to mount is on a 540MB SCSI driver set to SCSI ID=2 and the drive contains 1 partition that is formatted under linux. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 02:59:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10105 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 02:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10098 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 02:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) id LAA07800; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:58:50 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA08436 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:48:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199603031048.LAA08436@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem implementing a general faxpopup for FreeBSD Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 11:48:30 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I got fed up with the lack of user-friendly faxsoftware for FreeBSD and decided to implement a faxpopup. The idea is to print to a 'fax' printer, which has this faxpopup as its inputfilter. It reads the postscript (or whatever stream your faxspool program supports) and lets you choose from a list of numbers, as an added extra, also lets you generate a frontpage at your leisure, and then feeds the pages to your faxspool program. I'm using mgetty+sendfax for this right now, but it could be any fax package, as long as it has the possibility to spool the fax with a command line utility. The problem however is that the DISPLAY environment variable does not seem to get passed to the faxpopup, but I need to know that to be able to support users working on a remote display. Does anyone have a good idea how to solve this? If I can make this work, it would be a very nice utility IMHO. I will also work on a console version, but the X-version has priority right now. Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 04:00:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18474 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 04:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay3.jaring.my (relay3.jaring.my [192.228.128.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18460 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 04:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hyh.UUCP (root@localhost) by relay3.jaring.my (8.7.1/8.7.1) with UUCP id TAA14129 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:53:46 +0800 (MYT) Received: by pc.my!hyh; Sun, 03 Mar 1996 02:19:38 X-Mailer: WinNET Plus, v3.0 Message-ID: <149@hyh.pc.my> Reply-To: aho@hyh.pc.my (Anthony Ho) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 02:19:38 Subject: FreeBSD or BSDI From: aho@hyh.pc.my (Anthony Ho) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are thinking of setting up an Internet Server (for email and web, ftp). Should we use FreeBSD or BSDI. Please give reasons. Thks. --- Anthony Ho fax: (605)-255-1215 121 Jalan Kuala Kangsar tel: (605)-254-9690 30010 Ipoh, Malaysia. tlx: MA 44340 Internet: aho@hyh.pc.my From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 06:41:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA27990 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 06:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from s1.GANet.NET (s1.GANet.NET [199.18.201.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA27984 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 06:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ec0@localhost) by s1.GANet.NET (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA11005; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:39:52 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:39:51 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Chet To: Brian Tao cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd like to see a 4-CD set. :) Keep the install and live FS > CD-ROM's, then add the uncompressed XFree86 source tree (with contrib, > games, everything), indexed mailing list archives, Greg's "Installing > and Running FreeBSD" book (if that's legal after it's in print) and > FAQ's for as many packages/ports possible. Documentation, documentation > and more documentation. The above should easily fill the 1.2GB on > discs 3 and 4. I second this, what would the cost be for four cdroms? ejc > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) > Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 07:14:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA29061 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 07:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hood.cbn.net.id (hood.cbn.net.id [202.158.3.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29056 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 07:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip121.cbn.net.id by hood.cbn.net.id (NTMail 3.01.03) id wa033250; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:14:01 +0000 X-Sender: subzoner@hood.cbn.net.id X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Okto Suryadi Lie Subject: re : first joint Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:14:01 +0000 Message-Id: <15140106403177@cbn.net.id> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I would like to know about FreeBSD. Could you send me any matter about this? Thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 08:42:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02482 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 08:42:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02477 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 08:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1port3d.masternet.it (ts1port3d.masternet.it [194.184.65.25]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04762 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 17:40:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199603031640.RAA04762@masternet.it> X-Sender: monboso@masternet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 17:42:47 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Amedeo Beck Peccoz Subject: xfs not working properly Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm the sysadmin of our 7 PCs Ethernet LAN and I decided to switch from Novell Netware to FreeBSD 2.1, so I put xfs 1.91 as a TCP client on the PCs side, but unforunately I had to observe the following: 1) the FreeBSD server is much slower as now I can only get an average speed (Norton SYSINFO) of 87 K/s in readings and ONLY 10K/s in writings!!! while I used to run at 250K/s with the Novell one. Is this a problem in xfs or in FreeBSD? Note that at present some applications (e.g. Excel) are really unusable!! :-( I've also noted that nfsstat on the server reports an execessively high value in the "Server Cache Stats: Misses" value. Is this correct? How can I configure nfs caches? I haven't found any help in the mans! Here is a tipical server cache line from nfsstat after 2 day the servers has being working: Server Cache Stats: Inprog Idem Non-idem Misses 1 30 0 611022 2) I have to set to rwxrwxrwx (777) the rights of all the files in the exported dirs to let the clients see them, and for the same reason a line exists in my /etc/crontab file that executes a "chmod -R 777 /export" every 10 minutes, otherwise the newly created files are not accessibles by other users. Is this a problem in the FreeBSD rpc.pcnfsd daemon or maybe in the nfsd daemon or is there something wrong with xfs? I made some experiments and found out that the clients can properly see a directory if its group is the login group of the user, but if the group of the dir is another group the user belongs to, he (or she) cannot enter the dir if I set its rights to rwxrwx--- (770) Thanks in advance to anyone helping me solving this problem! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 09:24:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03650 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03629 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24415; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id MAA10377; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:23:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:23:51 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <22180.825839101@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > Just what would you folks like to see? :-) > > Besides the CVS tree, which would give me visibility I now lack, hmm, there's one thing that I'd kinda like, me and maybe other folks who have C++ classes to work into: a port of gcc-2.7.2. Not replacing the 2.6.3, but able to work along side it. Maybe some folks would want the pentium version, but I have a pair of 486DX66's, so I wouldn't. A copy of the last src-cur -A file. It's too damn big to download conveniently for those of us with university accounts and limited disk areas. I don't like the idea of this being more than 1 cd, this was supposed to be a bargain basement special for hackers, not a replacement for the main subscription. > > Jordan > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 10:30:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06168 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06159 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA26357; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:30:39 -0800 (PST) To: aho@hyh.pc.my (Anthony Ho) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 03 Mar 1996 02:19:38." <149@hyh.pc.my> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 10:30:39 -0800 Message-ID: <26355.825877839@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Evaluate them both and see what you think. Sorry, but our position on this is that we won't make "use xxx over yyy" statements given that it's impossible to even answer this question correctly for any given query. Different people have different needs, and whereas FreeBSD might be the clear choice for one, BSDI may be a clear choice for another. In other words, we're not going to give you a canned answer, nor will we attempt to cite "reasons" which may or may not even be relevant to your situation. Get whichever OS the person who will be *maintaining* your system is most comfortable with. Regards, Jordan > We are thinking of setting up an Internet Server (for email and web, > ftp). > > Should we use FreeBSD or BSDI. Please give reasons. > > Thks. > > --- > Anthony Ho fax: (605)-255-1215 > 121 Jalan Kuala Kangsar tel: (605)-254-9690 > 30010 Ipoh, Malaysia. tlx: MA 44340 > Internet: aho@hyh.pc.my From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 10:35:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06391 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06384 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA04254; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 07:47:02 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 07:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Following config file kills network, why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to all those who pointed out that the default rule for IPFW had changed to deny rather than accept. Like most of these problem, in retrospect, it should've been obvious... I will admit that I liked the old way of being able to set the policy, rather than have it set for me, but I can re-write my rules. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 11:24:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08595 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08585 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA26847; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:24:05 -0800 (PST) To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 03 Mar 1996 12:23:51 EST." Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 11:24:05 -0800 Message-ID: <26845.825881045@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > A copy of the last src-cur -A file. It's too damn big to download > conveniently for those of us with university accounts and limited disk > areas. I wanted to use this also, but unfortunately I've been unable to *find* the CTM deltas! The first SNAP CD will therefore go out without this on it, I'm afraid. I've included the CVS tree, however, Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 11:31:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:31:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08970 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25832; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id OAA10842; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:31:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:31:20 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <26845.825881045@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > A copy of the last src-cur -A file. It's too damn big to download > > conveniently for those of us with university accounts and limited disk > > areas. > > I wanted to use this also, but unfortunately I've been unable to > *find* the CTM deltas! Huh? At least for current (the one I track) the deltas are on Freefall in /pub/CTM/src-cur. at the same level, ports-cur tracks the ports tree. The big deltas are the ones with the letter "A" after the number, like src-cur.1500A.gz. There will be a src-cur.1500.gz, but that's just the normal incremental update, pretty small and not required here. Just look the the highest numbered "A" file, that's the latest complete update, and required for anyone wanting to get booted into the CTM method of keeping current. It's roughly 30 megs in size, so it's a pain to download, and it's not available anywhere broken up into any smaller chunks. > > The first SNAP CD will therefore go out without this on it, I'm > afraid. I've included the CVS tree, however, > > Jordan > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 11:37:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09328 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09323 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA29848; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:36:59 -0800 (PST) To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 03 Mar 1996 14:31:20 EST." Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 11:36:59 -0800 Message-ID: <29846.825881819@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Huh? At least for current (the one I track) the deltas are on Freefall > in /pub/CTM/src-cur. at the same level, ports-cur tracks the ports Ahhhhh.. *freefall*, not wcarchive! Gotcha. Sorry, I was confused. Since I'm still building the CD as we speak, your reply made it in time (thanks!) for me to grab the CTM stuff over.. Done! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 11:47:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09768 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09763 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04424; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:45:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603031945.MAA04424@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ext2fs To: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:45:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603030838.SAA01557@spooky.eis.net.au> from "Ernie Elu" at Mar 3, 96 06:38:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering what is the correct syntax for mounting a Linux ext2fs file > system? > > I tried mount -t ext2fs /dev/sd1 /mnt > > and it gave:- > > Wrong magic number: 8867 (expected ef53 for EXT2FS) > > The patition I am trying to mount is on a 540MB SCSI driver set to SCSI ID=2 > and the drive contains 1 partition that is formatted under linux. You are trying to mount the raw device (8867 is the DOS partition table); use the correct slice for the partition. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 11:48:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09957 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09938 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 11:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04438; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:46:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603031946.MAA04438@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Problem implementing a general faxpopup for FreeBSD To: marc@bowtie.nl (Marc van Kempen) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:46:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603031048.LAA08436@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> from "Marc van Kempen" at Mar 3, 96 11:48:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem however is that the DISPLAY environment variable > does not seem to get passed to the faxpopup, but I need to > know that to be able to support users working on a remote display. > > Does anyone have a good idea how to solve this? If I can make this > work, it would be a very nice utility IMHO. > > I will also work on a console version, but the X-version has priority > right now. Send them mail; biff will popup for you. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 12:03:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10640 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10632 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04482; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 13:01:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603032001.NAA04482@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: monboso@masternet.it (Amedeo Beck Peccoz) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 13:01:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603031640.RAA04762@masternet.it> from "Amedeo Beck Peccoz" at Mar 3, 96 05:42:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm the sysadmin of our 7 PCs Ethernet LAN and I decided to switch from > Novell Netware to FreeBSD 2.1, so I put xfs 1.91 as a TCP client on the PCs > side, but unforunately I had to observe the following: > > 1) the FreeBSD server is much slower as now I can only get an average speed > (Norton SYSINFO) of 87 K/s in readings and ONLY 10K/s in writings!!! while I > used to run at 250K/s with the Novell one. Is this a problem in xfs or in > FreeBSD? Note that at present some applications (e.g. Excel) are really > unusable!! :-( I've also noted that nfsstat on the server reports an > execessively high value in the "Server Cache Stats: Misses" value. Is this > correct? How can I configure nfs caches? I haven't found any help in the mans! > Here is a tipical server cache line from nfsstat after 2 day the servers has > being working: > Server Cache Stats: > Inprog Idem Non-idem Misses > 1 30 0 611022 Where is this information coming from? In general, the NFS on the server does not, strictly speaking, have a cache. The FreeBSD VM system disassociates the vnode from the underlying inode when the last refrence goes away (since NFS is stateless, this is each time. This seriously impacts the NFS numbers; unfortunately, other than significantly changing the buffer cache (to use a device/offset rather than a vnode/offset block index and thus not invalidate cache pages for which there are not active vnodes), there's very little that can be easily done. This is not enough to account for your very low numbers, however, since NFS-to-NFS doesn't have numbers this bad in a pure BSD environment. I suspect it is the cache on the PC, not on the server itself, that is blowing out. Make sure you have configured it to be large enough. Make sure the XFS cache is keying off the invariant portion of the cookie; most modern NFS's vary the cookie as part of making valid cookies hard to guess. If the cache is keying off the whole thing, it will get an inordinate number of misses. My personal advice would be to go to SMB clients instead of XFS and run Samba (a LAN Manager compatible server available at no cost) on FreeBSD. > 2) I have to set to rwxrwxrwx (777) the rights of all the files in the > exported dirs to let the clients see them, and for the same reason a line > exists in my /etc/crontab file that executes a "chmod -R 777 /export" every > 10 minutes, otherwise the newly created files are not accessibles by other > users. Is this a problem in the FreeBSD rpc.pcnfsd daemon or maybe in the > nfsd daemon or is there something wrong with xfs? I made some experiments > and found out that the clients can properly see a directory if its group is > the login group of the user, but if the group of the dir is another group > the user belongs to, he (or she) cannot enter the dir if I set its rights to > rwxrwx--- (770) Group permissions are generally sent across the wire in the NFS case, since the machine at the other end is assumed to be a trusted host. For PCNFS (ie: xfs), there is an authentication daemon that does the cookie generation on name lookup, and the xfs client is expected to authenticate to that. You should look at the default umask and the GID for the client program; in general, the need to open things up wide like this is a reflection of not having set up the client to authenticate correctly to the server. Hope this helps. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 12:57:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12775 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12768 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1port12d.masternet.it (ts1port12d.masternet.it [194.184.65.34]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA05615 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:56:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199603032056.VAA05615@masternet.it> X-Sender: monboso@masternet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 21:58:05 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Amedeo Beck Peccoz Subject: can't compile the kernel... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Tried to compile my kernel, but got the following: kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol '_hw_float' referenced from text segment Any idea? Ciao! Ciao! //\medeo From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 14:23:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17731 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17726 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA06486; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:24:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 14:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Multiple deliver of SIGALRM? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have noticed that in my pop server (Qualcomm) under FreeBSD that in the function tgets in popper.c, if I put a quick check in there to log everytime it gets SIGALARM, occasionally that I will get several in a row. However, alarm is only set once. I don't think this is normal. Does anybody have a better "tgets" implementation, or fixes for this? OR maybe a good setitimer solution? I suppose it could be a bad interaction between alarm and setjmp/longjmp if that's possible. In any case, it no workee. Heck, I'd be willing to pay somebody to fix it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 16:23:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22266 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22260 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01244 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:23:50 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Jason Thorpe: Re. ISA "userconfig" Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 16:23:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1242.825899030@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hmmmm, now here's a different approach! His scheme does have one advantage, which is that a newbie doesn't have to remember to boot with `-c', you could simply have an option flag which goes in GENERIC and turns on the "ask me please!" feature he's sort of got below. It's always interesting to see how different groups approach the same problems! :-) Jordan ------- Forwarded Message From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 12:57:01 -0800 Sender: owner-port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Precedence: list X-Loop: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Well, after the little thread last week about this, I grew kind of tired of the arguing about it, and decided to implement a proof-of-concept, MI ISA "userconfig" thing...it's pretty rough, and needs to be made bus-independent, but it's a start, anyhow. In any case, this took about 20 minutes to write, so doing it isn't that hard...maybe next week I'll work on the bus-independent version... If anyone has suggestions about what they'd like to see (within reason) in a NetBSD "userconfig", go ahead and let me know...No, I don't want to put menus in the kernel :-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 - ----- snip ----- NetBSD 1.1A (ANTIE) #434: Sat Mar 2 18:12:02 PST 1996 thorpej@antie:/work/netbsd/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/ANTIE CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real mem = 16384000 avail mem = 13885440 using 225 buffers containing 921600 bytes of memory isa0 (root) isa0: enter userconfig mode? y/[n] yes isa config: locators for device `ed0 at isa0': port=0x280 iomem=0xd0000 irq=9 drq= isa config: probe for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: enter new locator values, for no change isa config: ed0 at isa0: port=0x280 ? 0x300 isa config: ed0 at isa0: iomem=0xd0000 ? isa config: ed0 at isa0: irq=9 ? isa config: ed0 at isa0: drq= ? isa config: locators for device `ed0 at isa0': port=0x300 iomem=0xd0000 irq=9 drq= isa config: probe for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: enter new locator values, for no change isa config: ed0 at isa0: port=0x300 ? 280 isa config: ed0 at isa0: iomem=0xd0000 ? isa config: ed0 at isa0: irq=9 ? isa config: ed0 at isa0: drq= ? isa config: locators for device `ed0 at isa0': port=0x280 iomem=0xd0000 irq=9 drq= isa config: probe for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `ed0 at isa0'? y/[n] no ed0 at isa0 port 0x280-0x29f iomem 0xd0000-0xd3fff irq 9: address 00:00:c0:94:f6:72, type WD8013WC (16-bit) aui isa config: locators for device `npx0 at isa0': port=0xf0 iomem= irq=13 drq= isa config: probe for device `npx0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `npx0 at isa0'? y/[n] no npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0-0xff: using exception 16 isa config: locators for device `vt0 at isa0': port=0x60 iomem= irq=1 drq= isa config: probe for device `vt0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `vt0 at isa0'? y/[n] no vt0 at isa0 port 0x60-0x6f irq 1: generic, 80 col, color, 8 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.32] isa config: locators for device `lms0 at isa0': port=0x23c iomem= irq=5 drq= isa config: probe for device `lms0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `lms0 at isa0'? y/[n] no lms0 at isa0 port 0x23c-0x23f irq 5 isa config: locators for device `fdc0 at isa0': port=0x3f0 iomem= irq=6 drq=2 isa config: probe for device `fdc0 at isa0'? y/[n] yes isa config: edit locators for device `fdc0 at isa0'? y/[n] no fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 eisa0 (root) ahb0 at eisa0 slot 1 irq 11: Adaptec AHA-1742A scsibus0 at ahb0 sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct fixed sd0: 1169MB, 2448 cyl, 14 head, 69 sec, 512 bytes/sec sd1 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct fixed sd1: 1169MB, 2448 cyl, 14 head, 69 sec, 512 bytes/sec sd2 at scsibus0 targ 2 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct fixed sd2: 859MB, 1980 cyl, 11 head, 80 sec, 512 bytes/sec sd3 at scsibus0 targ 3 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct fixed sd3: 859MB, 1980 cyl, 11 head, 80 sec, 512 bytes/sec biomask 840 netmask a40 ttymask a62 changing root device to sd0a ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 16:29:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22444 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22439 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA09216; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:03:30 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603040033.LAA09216@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: monboso@masternet.it (Amedeo Beck Peccoz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:03:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603031640.RAA04762@masternet.it> from "Amedeo Beck Peccoz" at Mar 3, 96 05:42:47 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Amedeo Beck Peccoz stands accused of saying: > > I'm the sysadmin of our 7 PCs Ethernet LAN and I decided to switch from > Novell Netware to FreeBSD 2.1, so I put xfs 1.91 as a TCP client on the PCs > side, but unforunately I had to observe the following: > > 1) the FreeBSD server is much slower as now I can only get an average speed > (Norton SYSINFO) of 87 K/s in readings and ONLY 10K/s in writings!!! while I > used to run at 250K/s with the Novell one. Is this a problem in xfs or in > FreeBSD? Note that at present some applications (e.g. Excel) are really > unusable!! :-( I've also noted that nfsstat on the server reports an > execessively high value in the "Server Cache Stats: Misses" value. Is this > correct? How can I configure nfs caches? I haven't found any help in the mans! Please get your facts straight here. The FreeBSD NFS server is not "much slower", the problem is that the _DOS_clients_ are "much slower". The bottom line is that DOS and NFS _do_not_mix_. NFS is designed for systems that perform I/O like Unix systems. DOS performs I/O like a bootstrap loader (which it is), and interacts with NFS very poorly. What you should be doing is using a protocol that interacts well with DOS. In this case, the clear winner is the SMB protocol, as used by Microsoft Windows, and more importantly in your case also by the _free_ Microsoft Lan Client (available from ftp.microsoft.com). The server for this protocol is part of the 'samba' package distributed with FreeBSD. We use this combination extensively, and have seen performance well over 300K/sec using 8-bit ethernet cards. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 17:08:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24051 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 17:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24046 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 17:08:03 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id BAA22116 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:07:30 GMT X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Mon, 4 Mar 96 1:06:59 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Mon, 4 Mar 96 1:06:55 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Mon, 4 Mar 96 1:06:55 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:28291-960304010655-6D77] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 1:06:55 +0000 Content-Identifier: Bug in Crynwr/Li Message-Id: <"439-960304010943-27C4*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Bug in Crynwr/Linux mode of lp driver MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL X.400 Rfcgate Version 2.2.0) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="E439-960304010943-27C4s/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-.b0ndr1y.nested_0" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk --E439-960304010943-27C4s/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-.b0ndr1y.nested_0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new Linux/Crynwr-compatible mode of the lp (IP over parallel port) driver has at least one bug that causes panics if oversize packets are received. 1) The major difference of this protocol over the old is that the packet length is transmitted in front of the data. Unfortunately, the code trusts the supplied value, and will overrun a buffer if the sending implementation sends a packet that is too big. This bug did not apply to the old mode (with implicit length) as the length was checked. Patch attached. 2) It looks to me as if there is still a race where buffer overruns can occur in either protocol as the MTU is changing - either if the MTU is decreasing and a packet arrives of the old MTU in length, or in the more obscure case where malloc fails to supply a buffer of the desired new size (code in lpioctl(), manipulating sc->sc_ifbuf and sc->sc_if.if_mtu). Maybe lpioctl() is called at a suitable spl that this can't happen? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable would care to comment. [By way of amusement, the implementation provoking bug 1 was on an Acorn BBC Micro, in a mix of 6502 assembler and basic] --E439-960304010943-27C4s/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-.b0ndr1y.nested_0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patch to src/sys/i386/isa/lpt.c I was working with FreeBSD-stable as of CTM patch no. 46, but the same problem applies to -current. *** lpt.c-stable-ctm46 Mon Mar 4 00:41:30 1996 --- lpt.c Mon Mar 4 00:44:56 1996 *************** *** 1078,1083 **** --- 1078,1085 ---- if (j == -1) goto err; len = len + (j << 8); + if (len > sc->sc_if.if_mtu + MLPIPHDRLEN) + goto err; bp = sc->sc_ifbuf; --E439-960304010943-27C4s/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-.b0ndr1y.nested_0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 17:30:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24656 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 17:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (humprey@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph [165.220.8.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24645 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 17:30:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from humprey@localhost) by ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA06108; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:33:19 +0800 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:33:19 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Humprey C. Sy" To: Amedeo Beck Peccoz cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... In-Reply-To: <199603032056.VAA05615@masternet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Amedeo Beck Peccoz wrote: > Tried to compile my kernel, but got the following: > kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol '_hw_float' referenced from text segment You'll need to include the npx0 in your kernel. - Humprey - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 18:15:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA25988 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25982 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1port5d.masternet.it (ts1port5d.masternet.it [194.184.65.27]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA06392 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:13:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199603040213.DAA06392@masternet.it> X-Sender: monboso@masternet.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 03:15:20 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Amedeo Beck Peccoz Subject: I'd like Samba Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to let my FreeBSD server serve DOS clients using MS Network Client 3.0 and after reading tons of mans on the unix side and the poor docs coming with the MS Network Client 3.0 distribution I have no idea of the steps I have to take to let the net run. Has someone got a checklist or something useful to start? Lack of clear documentatio seems to be the main problem. I've configured almost easily Netware, nfs server/client, xfs, wfs and pc-nfs, but this is really misterious! :-( In particular: 1) do I have to modify the /smb.conf file in the unix machine? If yes HOW? 2) do I have to run the unix machine as a nfs server? 3) how do I specify the exported dirs from the unix side? In the /etc/exports file or somewhere else? 4) how do I configure the clients? The SETUP.EXE is just copying the files in the C:\NET dir and configuring the ethernet card, nothing more; 5) will I ever come out of this? Thanks to all of you who'll help me!! Ciao! //\medeo From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 18:53:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27448 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com ([198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27443 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 18:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA07580 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:53:17 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603040253.VAA07580@rk.ios.com> Subject: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:53:17 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk HI there ppl, I have quite afew systems here with ~10.00 accounts on ea ... and pwd_mkdb is _very slow now ... Takes 2+ minutes to rebuild the damn databases every time. I'm not concerned with passwd command , even though as I understand it doesn;t do one-point update so far and rebuilds everything from a scratch, but I'm trying to somehow speed up the pwd_mkdb itself. So they're a few ways I can see looking at the source code . For example it does two passes on a master password file it's fed as a parameter - once for unsecure and once for secure databases - so this could be made only once and we can write in to db's in parallel, Secondly may be I'll be able to reuse at least parts of the structure used for db->put for secure and usecure db's. And aslo - does any of programs actually use pwd info indexed by line number ? Do we really need this pass ( there're actually two passes) ? I want to check the the thing using profiler , just to see what eats most time in the program ( I do have a feeling already that it's all those dp->put's ). Rashid. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 19:43:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29680 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:43:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from schwing.ginsu.com ([205.210.24.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29673 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from geoff@localhost) by schwing.ginsu.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12703; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:39:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:39:11 -0500 (EST) From: Geoff Wells To: Amedeo Beck Peccoz cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I'd like Samba In-Reply-To: <199603040213.DAA06392@masternet.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I agree. I've been having problems as well and the documentation doesn't seem to be up to par. Although I don't think this is the place for the discussion (but I don't know where the right place is either ;). I've been trying to get my system working as well ( WFW 3.11 client with FreeBSD 2.1 server) I can mount any publicly available drive but something like /home just doesn't work. I can't seem to get the password authentication working. Something I did notice is that public drives get mounted as noboby ( ie GID, UID = 65535, 65535 ). This might explain why I can never get the right password. Another thing I can't get right is the name service. I just can't seem to manage a browsable network. All I get it "Network unavailable". :( If this discussion belongs in another group please tell me the list. If you have any idea what is going on, even better. Thanks for listening to me rant. Later, Geoff. On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Amedeo Beck Peccoz wrote: > I'm trying to let my FreeBSD server serve DOS clients using MS Network > Client 3.0 and after reading tons of mans on the unix side and the poor docs > coming with the MS Network Client 3.0 distribution I have no idea of the > steps I have to take to let the net run. Has someone got a checklist or > something useful to start? Lack of clear documentatio seems to be the main > problem. I've configured almost easily Netware, nfs server/client, xfs, wfs > and pc-nfs, but this is really misterious! :-( > In particular: > 1) do I have to modify the /smb.conf file in the unix machine? If yes HOW? > 2) do I have to run the unix machine as a nfs server? > 3) how do I specify the exported dirs from the unix side? In the > /etc/exports file or somewhere else? > 4) how do I configure the clients? The SETUP.EXE is just copying the files > in the C:\NET dir and configuring the ethernet card, nothing more; > 5) will I ever come out of this? > > Thanks to all of you who'll help me!! > > Ciao! > //\medeo > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 19:43:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29692 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA29679 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:43:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id TAA27629; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:41:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603040341.TAA27629@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: rashid@rk.ios.com (Rashid Karimov) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:41:43 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603040253.VAA07580@rk.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov" at Mar 3, 96 09:53:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > HI there ppl, > > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. to speed up mkpwd you would need a 'diff' file of before and after' and do the changes as a set of single-point changes. This requires that you trust the passwd.master and the database files to be correctly in sync. > > > I have quite afew systems here with ~10.00 accounts > on ea ... and pwd_mkdb is _very slow now ... Takes > 2+ minutes to rebuild the damn databases every time. > > I'm not concerned with passwd command , even though > as I understand it doesn;t do one-point update so far > and rebuilds everything from a scratch, but I'm trying > to somehow speed up the pwd_mkdb itself. > > So they're a few ways I can see looking at the source code . > For example it does two passes on a master password file > it's fed as a parameter - once for unsecure and once > for secure databases - so this could be made only once > and we can write in to db's in parallel, Secondly may > be I'll be able to reuse at least parts of the structure > used for db->put for secure and usecure db's. > And aslo - does any of programs actually use pwd info > indexed by line number ? Do we really need this pass > ( there're actually two passes) ? > > I want to check the the thing using profiler , just > to see what eats most time in the program ( I do have > a feeling already that it's all those dp->put's ). these might of course speed things up.. it might also be quicker to build the entire databse in ram and bang it out to disk as a single write.. :) > > > Rashid. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 19:56:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA00448 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebsd.netcom.com ([198.211.79.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00442 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 19:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by freebsd.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id WAA00183; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:00:46 -0600 From: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) Message-Id: <199603040400.WAA00183@freebsd.netcom.com> Subject: re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:00:45 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Rashid Karimov > I have quite afew systems here with ~10.00 accounts > on ea ... and pwd_mkdb is _very slow now ... Takes > 2+ minutes to rebuild the damn databases every time. > I had some systems with over 15,000 accounts in the databases and the performance was terrible! :-) Guido van Rooij wrote some patches for pwd_mkdb that do "update-in-place" of the password database. These patches made a tremendous difference for me. If the record doesn't already exist, it is added without a rebuild of the entire set of files. Perhaps Guido can post the latest version of his adjustments. The process of changing a password on vanilla FreeBSD is an amazing one! We modify a record in /etc/master.passwd, we then build pwd.db, spwd.db, and passwd! We have a lot of redundant records laying around. Any site that has a large number of users or is considering having a large number of users should search the archives for Guido's patches. Regards, Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas bugs@freebsd.netcom.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 23:13:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de ([141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA08516 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA02596; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:13:10 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03392; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:13:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id QAA02712; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:51:54 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603021551.QAA02712@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FIFO question To: MAX@mics.msu.su (Mad Phantom) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:51:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1DF27873BE4@mics.msu.su> from "Mad Phantom" at Feb 27, 96 08:17:03 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mad Phantom wrote: > I have problems with config. my fifo io card (startech 16650A). > If I type "cat /dev/cuaa1" (on other cu* cat write "operation not > permitted"..or something like it) and calling modem, I see only trash on > screen. "cat /dev/ttyd1" looks like big hole - nothing write back. > Does anyone know how can I config my FIFO? I don't fully understand your question, sorry. (Perhaps you should write it in a private mail to me in Russian.) Using `cat' to talk to a modem is most likely not very efficient. Use a ``modem utility'' instead, for example `cu' or `tip' (both part of the base distribution, but both require some configuration work), or `kermit' (you can configure everything on the fly, but it's not in the base system). You have to care for speed, modem control lines etc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 23:18:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de ([141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA08752 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA03074; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:18:27 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03437; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:18:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id QAA01773; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:37:22 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603021537.QAA01773@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Dell Dimension P75t vs. 2.1.0-RELEASE To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:37:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc Ramirez" at Feb 29, 96 03:17:47 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Marc Ramirez wrote: > Main symptom: data corruption to and from hard disk (Quantum Fireball > 1GB, EIDE) > > The disk is on a wdc on the motherboard (the motherboard has two, > actually; the disk is on the primary one). The problem seems to appear > during burst activity of two or three seconds of data transfer. Copying > the bindist from the Win95 partition to the FreeBSD one results in a > bunch of corrupt files, if it completes, or a filesystem panic. Does it only happen when a ms-dog file system is involved? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 23:24:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09062 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09055 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA04939; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:24:08 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03648; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:24:19 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id RAA05097; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:57 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603021629.RAA05097@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Multisession CD-R To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: hernanw@fsl.orst.edu In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Hernandez" at Feb 27, 96 09:11:59 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wayne Hernandez wrote: > > FreeBSD-current supports CD-Writers, ... > Is this support in the stable branch? No, and it's unlikely to go there. -stable is not supposed to inherit new features, and the CD-R driver is considered alpha to beta quality right now anyway. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 23:25:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09116 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09108 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA04953; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:24:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA03657; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:24:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id RAA05310; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:33:45 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603021633.RAA05310@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Need 2.0.5 fixit floppy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:33:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie In-Reply-To: <9602281035.AA25266@odyssey.ucc.ie> from "Fergal Lane" at Feb 28, 96 10:35:05 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Fergal Lane wrote: > I badly need a fixit floppy that will work with FreeBSD 2.0.5. > Is there a fixit floppy available specifically for FreeBSD 2.0.5? Use the boot/fixit floppy pair from 2.1. You should be able to fix a 2.0.5 system with it as well. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 3 23:44:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09825 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu ([130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09820 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 23:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA12668; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:43:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:43:54 -0500 (EST) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: J Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dell Dimension P75t vs. 2.1.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199603021537.QAA01773@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Marc Ramirez wrote: > > > Main symptom: data corruption to and from hard disk (Quantum Fireball > > 1GB, EIDE) > > Does it only happen when a ms-dog file system is involved? Nope. I thought of that possibility, then I tried this from the holographic shell: $ cp /dos/fbsd/bin/* . [data is corrupt but system seems to be happy] $ cat * > /dev/null [churns for a bit, then I get a panic due to some fs structure being corrupt, different every time] The BIOS doesn't seem to have too many knobs for me to frob... I've rounded up another small disk and I am trying to find an old cheap IDE controller. I'll mess around a bit and try to confirm my suspicion that the on-board IDE and FBSD don't get along. Unfortunately, the computer has to be enlisted into real work soon, so I don't have much time to play around with it. Ideally, FBSD will work in some manner, and I can play around with the driver later. Marc. -- There has been as great a proliferation of lawyers in the past 20 years as there has been a proliferation of computers, and unlike computers, lawyers do not get twice as intelligent and half as expensive every two years. -- E. Burns, "S.F. Bay Guardian" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 00:21:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA11468 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 00:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA11458 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 00:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA06686; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:20:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA03920; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:20:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id IAA09702; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:55:14 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603040755.IAA09702@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: your mail To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:55:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: joluca@mbox1.ufsc.br Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603012158.RAA09866@mbox1> from "joluca@mbox1.ufsc.br" at Mar 1, 96 06:45:30 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would like in DOSEMU for FreeBSD. I have much dos binaries files and I interessed in this program. There's a `pcemu' in the port. It's a software emulation of an 8086, and a BIOS emulation for text mode. It runs almost all text-mode DOS applications. `dosemu' is more complicated, it requires a VM86 mode. Nobody seems to have done it by now. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 00:52:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12979 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 00:52:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12935 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 00:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz401.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA08229; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:50:55 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA04167; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:50:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA10105; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:37:06 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603040837.JAA10105@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cgi script To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:37:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603021618.SAA22791@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Mar 2, 96 06:18:07 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Murray wrote: > > > I have writen some code that simplifies writing cgi scripts in C... I am > > > wondering if FreeBSD would in interested in include the library with > > > FreeBSD's source... > This is a great gesture! I am sure all of us are pleased! I think this should be made a `port'. We could put the distfile on freefall easily. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 01:25:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA15368 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA15079 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA07949; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:20:57 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA04344; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:20:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA10537; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:59:41 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603040859.JAA10537@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD installation problems To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:59:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: philh@cdngateway.pe.ca (Phil Holmstrom Technician) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <313784DC.274C@cdngateway.pe.ca> from "Phil Holmstrom Technician" at Mar 1, 96 03:14:36 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Phil Holmstrom Technician wrote: > When I pick the connection device lp0 it is not able > to reset it and the installation dies from that point. We are using a > pent 100 and our ethernet card is an Intel Pro Ethernet Express 100 b > card with all the factory default settings. :-) lp0 is the ``PLIP'' device, using a laplink cable on your printer port. The Intel EtherExpress Pro ain't supported in the 2.1 distribution, though there is a driver available in -current (and i think it went into the -stable branch recently). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 01:30:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA15707 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA15075 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA07940 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:20:55 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA04338; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:20:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA10489; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:53:23 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603040853.JAA10489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: re : first joint To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:53:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: subzoner@cbn.net.id (Okto Suryadi Lie) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <15140106403177@cbn.net.id> from "Okto Suryadi Lie" at Mar 3, 96 10:14:01 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Okto Suryadi Lie wrote: > Hi, I would like to know about FreeBSD. > Could you send me any matter about this? Do you have full Internet access? If so, you might wanna try the World Wide Web at http://www.freebsd.org/ -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 01:56:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA17196 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA17184 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA12563; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:25:27 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603040955.UAA12563@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FIFO question To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:25:26 +1030 (CST) Cc: MAX@mics.msu.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603021551.QAA02712@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 2, 96 04:51:54 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > As Mad Phantom wrote: > > > I have problems with config. my fifo io card (startech 16650A). The 16650 may or may not work. I would expect it to be detected as a 16550. > > If I type "cat /dev/cuaa1" (on other cu* cat write "operation not > > permitted"..or something like it) and calling modem, I see only trash on > > screen. "cat /dev/ttyd1" looks like big hole - nothing write back. > > Does anyone know how can I config my FIFO? > > I don't fully understand your question, sorry. (Perhaps you should > write it in a private mail to me in Russian.) > > Using `cat' to talk to a modem is most likely not very efficient. Use > a ``modem utility'' instead, for example `cu' or `tip' (both part of > the base distribution, but both require some configuration work), or > `kermit' (you can configure everything on the fly, but it's not in the > base system). 'cu' requires no configuration work (hooray for Taylor!). You can say cu -s 38400 -l /dev/cuaa1 and expect to be connected to your modem. Type ~. to exit, but be prepared to wait 10 seconds or longer before getting your prompt back. > You have to care for speed, modem control lines etc. The 'sio' driver tries very hard to do the Right Thing with control lines. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 02:01:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA17755 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17485 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 01:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA09086 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:54:25 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA04511 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:54:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id KAA00456 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:46:55 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603040946.KAA00456@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:46:55 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603020859.AAA13750@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 2, 96 00:59:04 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > >Is there a simple sequence I can type into ddb to switch stack > pointers and >frames so I can do a "where" to see where I was when > the first panic occured? > I thought about writing some extensions to "trace" to allow it to > apply a (operator supplied) 'stack offset' that would be used to > adjust the pushed FPs (for precisely the purpose of what you're > requesting above). What's wrong with the ``dyadic frame specification''? (``frame new-fp new-pc'') -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 02:07:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA18045 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:07:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA18040 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 02:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA05866; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:02:38 +1100 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:02:38 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603041002.VAA05866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> I have quite afew systems here with ~10.00 accounts >> on ea ... and pwd_mkdb is _very slow now ... Takes >> 2+ minutes to rebuild the damn databases every time. I have only 14 accounts (12 distribution ones, bde and ftp), so I created dummy master.passwd files with thousands of accounts named "nobodyNNNNN" (NNNN = 0-29999) to test this. A real password file may take longer. On a P133, for 15014 accounts, `pwd_mkd -d /usr/tmp /usr/tmp/dummy_passwd' took about 39 seconds real, 3 user, 4 sys. For 30014 accounts, it took about 234 seconds real, 7 user, 16 sys. The main problem is obviously that the disk cache doesn't really work. ufs writes full blocks as soon as possible. This gives very poor performance for random writes if the same block is written many times. db often does this. I think it can be programmed to do more buffering in memory, but often isn't. kvm_mkdb was speeded up by a factor of about 5 by rewriting it to use mmap and more buffering; now it is only about twice as slow as the old version would be with a working disk cache ;-). >it might also be quicker to build the entire databse in ram >and bang it out to disk as a single write.. :) Not much, if write() is suitably buffered. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 03:07:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA21090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA21084 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.7.4+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W5-MX960213-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id UAA05359; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:07:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb4/3.3W5-MX960229-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id UAA27352; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:06:34 +0900 Received: (from seki@localhost) by sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb7/3.4W-) id UAA11650; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:03:11 +0900 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:03:11 +0900 From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <199603041103.UAA11650@sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: FreeBSD-core@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: h-kimura@tokyo.se.fujitsu.co.jp Subject: Updated fe Ethernet driver for 960226 SNAP Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Dear FreeBSD core team and hackers, I just put the updated version of my fe driver on freefall, as: ftp://freefall.cdrom.com/incoming/fe-960303.tar.gz This is a revised fe, Ethernet driver for MB8696x based adapters. This version is based on and tested with 960226 SNAP. I want someone in the core team to replace the fe driver in the latest kernel source tree with this new one. Updated files are: /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/if_fe.c /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/if_fereg.h /usr/share/man/man4/fe.4.gz I also want to see the "device fe0" line in the GENERIC kernel config file. I believe it's worth to do so; the driver is surely stable after one year experience, and, as you know, availability of a network adapter driver in the system install floppy is critical for easy installation. Suggested config line for fe is: device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? vector feintr Major changes from 960226 SNAP: More adapter models are supported: Fujitsu FMV-183/184 and some older models of Allied-Telesis AT1700 are added. Preliminary support for PC cards: Fujitsu MBH10302 PCMCIA Ethernet adapter now works on FreeBSD. More reliable adapter probe. Fixes of some (mostly small) bugs. Please contact M. Sekiguchi for any questions and/or bug reports. Have fun, From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 03:09:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA21259 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from colin.muc.de (root@colin.muc.de [193.174.4.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA21251 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:08:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.174.4.22] ([193.174.4.22]) by colin.muc.de with SMTP id <86026-2>; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:07:58 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:07:18 +0100 To: marc@bowtie.nl From: Lutz Albers Subject: Re: Problem implementing a general faxpopup for FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199603031048.LAA08436@nietzsche.bowtie.nl>, Marc van Kempen writes: -The problem however is that the DISPLAY environment variable -does not seem to get passed to the faxpopup, but I need to -know that to be able to support users working on a remote display. I think you'll have some problems here. The filters are started by lpd and run therefore euid to the id of lpd (which is root or daemon). So, unless you're using xhost (which is NOT recomended!), you don't have authorization to use the DISPLAY (at least under R6 and xauth). I don't thing that it is good idea to provide a daemon with an user interface. ciao lutz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lutz Albers | What's good ? Luederitzstr. 14, 81929-Muenchen, Germany | Life's good - email:lutz@muc.de ph: +49-89-93940364 | But not fair at all http://www.muc.de/~lutz fax:+49-89-93940365 | (Lou Reed) Do not take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 03:56:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA24654 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com ([204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA24649 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA13201; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 03:52:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA25459; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:51:47 +0100 Message-Id: <9603041151.AA25459@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from J Wunsch of Mon, 04 Mar 96 10:46:55 +0100. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 12:51:47 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk j@uriah.heep.sax.de writes: > As David Greenman wrote: > > I thought about writing some extensions to "trace" to allow it to > > apply a (operator supplied) 'stack offset' that would be used to > > adjust the pushed FPs (for precisely the purpose of what you're > > requesting above). > > What's wrong with the ``dyadic frame specification''? > > (``frame new-fp new-pc'') > does that work in ddb (I haven't used it enough to know :-) ? --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 04:24:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA26676 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 04:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net ([198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26671 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 04:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA01155; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:19:31 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199603040719.HAA01155@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:19:30 +0000 () Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603041002.VAA05866@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 4, 96 09:02:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > same block is written many times. db often does this. I think it can > be programmed to do more buffering in memory, but often isn't. kvm_mkdb > was speeded up by a factor of about 5 by rewriting it to use mmap and > more buffering; now it is only about twice as slow as the old version > would be with a working disk cache ;-). > > >it might also be quicker to build the entire databse in ram > >and bang it out to disk as a single write.. :) > > Not much, if write() is suitably buffered. > Ahh... Come on, you know that the disk cache works, it simply does not write-behind as much as you would like. It read-caches very nicely. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 04:28:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA26839 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 04:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from max3 ([192.115.74.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26802 Mon, 4 Mar 1996 04:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pituach.ta.ladpc.gov.il (pituach.ta.ladpc.gov.il [147.236.1.13]) by max3 (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08855; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:20:29 +0200 Received: from jmpc01 (jmpc00.ta.ladpc.gov.il [147.236.200.100]) by pituach.ta.ladpc.gov.il (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA34561; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:30:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199603042030.OAA34561@pituach.ta.ladpc.gov.il> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: yonib@ladpc.gov.il To: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.ORG, FREEBSD-QUESTIONS@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:21:35 +0000 Subject: token-ring, windoze, etc.. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk hi, all I sent this mail yesterday to the FREEBSD_QUESTIONS so i'm sorry if someone has to read it again. I've installed freebsd on my pentium 90 and am having fun. I have 3 questions that will help me kick out my windows partition and not touch it unless i have to. a) is there freebsd support for token ring (i have olicom token ring card). my windows & netscape work with winsock.dll b) is there support for novell disks (over the same token ring) c) what's the latest on WINE (is it stable? what can be run on it?) thanks. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ..Without C we'd probably be programming in Basi and Pasal ..Screw the prime directive, release windows on the borg. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Yoni Bar-Lavie Israel local authorities data processing center - JLM E-Address: yonib@ladpc.gov.il Voice: 972-2-296869 Fax: 972-2-297040 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 06:12:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA02438 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA02387 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA16147; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:10:14 +1100 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:10:14 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603041410.BAA16147@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> >it might also be quicker to build the entire databse in ram >> >and bang it out to disk as a single write.. :) >> >> Not much, if write() is suitably buffered. >> >Ahh... Come on, you know that the disk cache works, it simply does not >write-behind as much as you would like. It read-caches very nicely. It has esentially no write-behind. This is harmful for more than highly random writes: $ du -ks /sys/ 15238 $ time tar cf /dev/null /sys/ 10.25 real 0.15 user 1.18 sys $ expr 15328 \* 100 / 1025 1495 # K/s read, not great $ time tar cf /dev/null /sys/ 2.98 real 0.11 user 1.04 sys $ expr 15328 \* 100 / 298 5143 # K/s read, good (?) (I think the previous step cached all data or all metadata, not sure which) $ cd /c/tmp # /c is mounted with -o async and is on same disk as /sys/ $ time cp -pR /sys/ . 39.63 real 0.10 user 3.02 sys $ expr 15238 / 59 386 # K/s read+write, caching was ineffective $ iozone 256 8192 # iozone 16 would move about the same amount of data, but caches too effectively to be accurate 4623837 bytes/second for writing the file 5087316 bytes/second for writing the file $ expr 386 \* 1024 \* 2 \* 100 \( 4623837 + 5087316 \) 8 # % efficiency BTW, for 30000 password entries, pwd.db and spwd.db were 9.5MB each. Keeping them all in real memory, either in user space or in the disk cache, would at best have barely worked on the 32MB system that I tested on. A system 32MB of memory, especially one with only one disk, probably shouldn't allow anywhere near 18MB of pending writes even if there is currently RAM to spare, because it would take too long to satisfy future RAM requirements. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 06:36:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA03542 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03532 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA17035; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:35:44 +1100 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:35:44 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603041435.BAA17035@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I wrote: > $ expr 386 \* 1024 \* 2 \* 100 \( 4623837 + 5087316 \) > 8 # % efficiency This should be $ expr 386 \* 1024 \* 2 \* 100 / \( 4623837 + 5087316 \) \* 2 16 # % efficiency Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 06:53:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA05247 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA05233 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 06:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA06583 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:51:00 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA07236 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:51:00 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id PAA01491 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:39:42 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603041439.PAA01491@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:39:41 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9603041151.AA25459@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> from "garyj@frt.dec.com" at Mar 4, 96 12:51:47 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As garyj@frt.dec.com wrote: > > What's wrong with the ``dyadic frame specification''? > > > > (``frame new-fp new-pc'') > does that work in ddb (I haven't used it enough to know :-) ? Aaaaieeh. Somebody should gimme the conical hat! <:) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 07:33:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08256 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA08251 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:33:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0ttbfo-0003w1C; Mon, 4 Mar 96 06:55 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA14932; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:33:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: J Wunsch cc: MAX@mics.msu.su (Mad Phantom), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FIFO question In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 Mar 1996 16:51:54 +0100." <199603021551.QAA02712@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 14:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: <14930.825949990@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Mad Phantom wrote: > > > I have problems with config. my fifo io card (startech 16650A). The 16650 works OK for me fyi. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 07:35:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.cdngateway.pe.ca (cdngateway.pe.ca [205.151.204.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA08400 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 07:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from by ns.cdngateway.pe.ca with SMTP (IPAD 0.9.8) id 3436100 ; Mon, 04 Mar 96 11:34:42 UTC Message-ID: <313B4505.3088@cdngateway.pe.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 11:31:17 -0800 From: Phil Holmstrom Technician Organization: Canadian Gateway Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: installation for a system with an Intel EthernetExpress 100b card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone happen to have a boot disk for freebsd with the driver for the Intel 100b ethernet card? If so could you email me some info on where I can possible get it. Thanks Phil Holmstrom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 09:47:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16583 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16508 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 09:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA12756 ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:41:49 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA04384 ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:41:48 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id IAA17378; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:53:28 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603040753.IAA17378@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... To: monboso@masternet.it (Amedeo Beck Peccoz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:53:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603032056.VAA05615@masternet.it> from Amedeo Beck Peccoz at "Mar 3, 96 09:58:05 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1729 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Amedeo Beck Peccoz said: > Tried to compile my kernel, but got the following: > kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol '_hw_float' referenced from text segment As written in the LINT file, the npx0 line is NOT optionnal. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 10:11:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17412 Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06209; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:08:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603041808.LAA06209@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: token-ring, windoze, etc.. To: yonib@ladpc.gov.il Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:08:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS@FreeBSD.ORG, FREEBSD-QUESTIONS@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603042030.OAA34561@pituach.ta.ladpc.gov.il> from "yonib@ladpc.gov.il" at Mar 4, 96 02:21:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I sent this mail yesterday to the FREEBSD_QUESTIONS so i'm sorry if > someone has to read it again. Few of us read/respond to mail on Sunday. I didn't respond because the answers are FAQ's or the questions don't make sense. > I've installed freebsd on my pentium 90 and am having fun. > I have 3 questions that will help me kick out my windows partition > and not touch it unless i have to. > > a) is there freebsd support for token ring (i have olicom token ring > card). my windows & netscape work with winsock.dll Token Ring isn't supported. No one who wants a driver and has a test bed has so far been willing to write the necessary code. Those who do have test beds are trying to get rid of token ring at their site and don't need yet another instance of a legacy system. > b) is there support for novell disks (over the same token ring) Do you mean mounting the disks as local file systems? No, this is not supported; it is unlikely to be supported, since the NetWare FS relies on having a lot of crap in memory for trustee (~1M of RAM per 100M of disk) and directory hash and other calculation. It has no concept of cache locality. Do you mean FreeBSD as a client? There is a Linux client FS on the Samba FS site. Because of the difference in authentication model between UNIX systems (user authenticates, many users possible) and NetWare (connection authenticates; one connection per machine), it is difficult to resolve the multiple user question. When I was at Novell, it took us ~18 man years to resolve the problem (6 engineers over 3 years) and it was never resolved satisfactorily. The Linux SMBFS and NetWare Client FS are both unsatisfactory. Do you mean FreeBSD as a server? Contact "Puzzle Systems"; they sell source code and precompiled servers for a lot of platforms; you could ask for a port, or use an x86 UNIX version under an ABI (this would probably require work on the ABI). Note that the "login" and "slist" and "nlist" programs are all part of the server distribution from Novell, so Puzzle can't provide these. You have to have at least one *real* NetWare server to have legal copies of these programs. Note also that the Puzzle code does not support NDS; it can only handle bindery requests (so it's a 3.x server, not a 4.x), and as such, it can not be used in a pure 4.x installation -- so SAP traffic is still a real problem. > c) what's the latest on WINE (is it stable? what can be run on it?) You should read the WINE FAQ. Look for it at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/ WINE still can't run most code, and still reports false statistics for interface coverage by using (N/(N+1)) to get the percentage of covered interfaces (ie: it always counts only one failure for N successes, since it stops after the first failure). TWIN (the program from Willows) is reported to be sufficiently ported to run Microsoft Excel and most other Windows programs, so you should probably use that instead until WINE improves. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 10:22:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18105 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18100 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06257; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:19:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603041819.LAA06257@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:19:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603040033.LAA09216@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Mar 4, 96 11:03:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... re: using xfs ... ] > Please get your facts straight here. The FreeBSD NFS server is not "much > slower", the problem is that the _DOS_clients_ are "much slower". The DOS clients are generally broken, unless they have local cache, but the FreeBSD NFS server is also "much slower". As I pointed out in my previous posting, since the protocol is stateless, effectively the vnode is looked up and freed on each reference. Since the cache in FreeBSD is vnode/extent based, not device/extent based, this results in basically *zero* cache hits. There are several lame ways around this that really break FreeBSD. I won't go into them because I don't want to see them implemented. There is a lame side effect of a correct change that would mask the problem somewhat (if the name cache lookup were moved out of the per FS code, as it should be, and cache entries were treated as vnode reference instances, then the vnode would stay in cache). And there is the real fix (go to device/extent based caching and clean up most of vfs_subr.c, especially the vclean crap), which introduces a 2G limit on logical device size instead of just a 2G limit on open file size. Unless we eat the additional overhead for 64 bit offsets in the VM systems. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 10:25:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18189 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18178 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06269; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:21:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603041821.LAA06269@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: julian@ref.tfs.com (JULIAN Elischer) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:21:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603040341.TAA27629@ref.tfs.com> from "JULIAN Elischer" at Mar 3, 96 07:41:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point > changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. As I understand it, these changes were never committed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 10:26:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18233 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18228 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06283; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:23:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603041823.LAA06283@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:23:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603040753.IAA17378@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Mar 4, 96 08:53:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It seems that Amedeo Beck Peccoz said: > > Tried to compile my kernel, but got the following: > > kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol '_hw_float' referenced from text segment > > As written in the LINT file, the npx0 line is NOT optionnal. This is stupid. Why is it still in files.i386 as optional? Why is an option used to include it or not include it? This is a data problem, not a documentation problem. Change the files.i386 data. PLEASE. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 10:39:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18921 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18915 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA09382 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:33:50 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma009340; Mon Mar 4 12:33:50 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA04915 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:00:43 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA09741 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:12:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603041812.MAA09741@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: C++ and wierd symbols Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 12:12:53 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk howdy, I'm trying to compile some c++ stuff and I'm getting wierd link errors, like c++ is trying to overload some functions. does anyone have a clue as what's wrong? here's the source that makes the call: from `editor.c' ... picture = pnm_readpnm(in_pipe,&cols,&rows,&maxval,&format); if(picture==NULL) ... the reference to pnm_readpnm() somehow gets translated into _pnm_readpnm__FP7__sFILEPiT1PUsT1(), 'cause the link line reports: editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_readpnm__FP7__sFILEPiT1PUsT1' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_freearray__FPPci' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_allocarray__Fiii' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_ppm_writeppm__FP7__sFILEPP5pixeliiUsi' referenced from text segment editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_freearray__FPPci' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 help. eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 11:19:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20873 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20868 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:19:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14026; Mon, 4 Mar 96 13:19:30 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA00471; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:19:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:19:29 -0700 Message-Id: <9603041919.AA00471@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: erich@lodgenet.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603041812.MAA09741@jake.lodgenet.com> (erich@lodgenet.com) Subject: Re: C++ and wierd symbols Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Eric" == "Eric L Hernes" writes: Eric> I'm trying to compile some c++ stuff and I'm getting wierd Eric> link errors, like c++ is trying to overload some functions. Eric> does anyone have a clue as what's wrong? Yep. You need extern "C" { void pnm_readpnm(whatever, whatever, ...); // Other functions declarations. } somewhere in editor.c. When you use C++, the symbols that are generated include type information. This process is called name mangling. Since pnm_readpnm() comes from a C, NOT a C++ file, then the type information isn't included, which is why you get undefined symbols. The extern "C" declaration above tells the C++ compiler to not mangle the names of the given functions. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 11:22:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21027 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21022 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA06380; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:15:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603041915.MAA06380@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: I'd like Samba To: geoff@ginsu.com (Geoff Wells) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:15:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Geoff Wells" at Mar 3, 96 10:39:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I agree. I've been having problems as well and the documentation doesn't > seem to be up to par. Although I don't think this is the place for the > discussion (but I don't know where the right place is either ;). > > I've been trying to get my system working as well ( WFW 3.11 client with > FreeBSD 2.1 server) I can mount any publicly available drive but > something like /home just doesn't work. I can't seem to get the password > authentication working. Something I did notice is that public drives get > mounted as noboby ( ie GID, UID = 65535, 65535 ). This might explain why > I can never get the right password. > > Another thing I can't get right is the name service. I just can't seem > to manage a browsable network. All I get it "Network unavailable". :( > > If this discussion belongs in another group please tell me the list. If > you have any idea what is going on, even better. This discussion is probably better suited to the Samba mailing list. Samba could use a good "administrative walk-through" program for configuration or reconfiguration of Samba. Personally, I'd prefer a flat top-down grammar, but it isn't quite suitable for the way they handle their config files. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 11:32:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21686 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21681 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0ttfzF-0004ITC; Mon, 4 Mar 96 11:32 PST Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:32:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Ollivier Robert cc: Amedeo Beck Peccoz , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... In-Reply-To: <199603040753.IAA17378@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Ollivier Robert wrote: > It seems that Amedeo Beck Peccoz said: > > Tried to compile my kernel, but got the following: > > kern_sysctl.o: Undefined symbol '_hw_float' referenced from text segment > > As written in the LINT file, the npx0 line is NOT optionnal. Oops! Then that is a bug in my chapter of the FreeBSD handbook.. :-( I wrote that npx0 was optional if you didn't have an FPU. But I see that somebody has already fixed it in the copy on the WWW page (Section 5.3.4). I think I did a pretty decent job with that chapter, but I did make five or six dumb mistakes. Thanks for fixing them, and I guess the next version of the CD-ROM will have the corrected version... ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 12:08:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23850 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:08:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23814 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.12/1.53) id VAA14023; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:06:59 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199603042006.VAA14023@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: julian@ref.tfs.com (JULIAN Elischer) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:06:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603040341.TAA27629@ref.tfs.com> from "JULIAN Elischer" at Mar 3, 96 07:41:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point > changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. > yep. That's what I did. It is still hanging around here, but I want to commit it soon, possible protected with an #ifdef. I made patches for every command that changes a single user at a time, chpass and friends, passwd, yppasswdd, pwd_mkdb. I did not do adduser (yet). Things are harder for vipw, as: > to speed up mkpwd you would need a 'diff' file of > before and after' and do the changes as a set of single-point changes. > This requires that you trust the passwd.master and the database > files to be correctly in sync. > And you should calculate a turnaround point where it is more wise to completely rebuild the databases. > > > > > > > I have quite afew systems here with ~10.00 accounts > > on ea ... and pwd_mkdb is _very slow now ... Takes > > 2+ minutes to rebuild the damn databases every time. This should go back to a few seconds, depending on the size of your *pwd.db files. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 12:28:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24643 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24638 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA27955; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 07:26:00 +1100 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 07:26:00 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603042026.HAA27955@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, monboso@masternet.it Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> As written in the LINT file, the npx0 line is NOT optionnal. >This is stupid. >Why is it still in files.i386 as optional? Why is an option used >to include it or not include it? It's almost optional in -current. The link problem went away several months ago when some sysctl stuff was improved. The driver can probably be left out on a stripped down system without any npx hardware or math emulators. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 14:09:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02610 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02602 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:08:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19125; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:08:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id RAA13837; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:08:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ and wierd symbols In-Reply-To: <199603041812.MAA09741@jake.lodgenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Eric L. Hernes wrote: > > howdy, > > I'm trying to compile some c++ stuff and I'm getting wierd > link errors, like c++ is trying to overload some functions. > does anyone have a clue as what's wrong? > > here's the source that makes the call: > > from `editor.c' > ... > picture = pnm_readpnm(in_pipe,&cols,&rows,&maxval,&format); > if(picture==NULL) > ... > > the reference to pnm_readpnm() somehow gets translated into > _pnm_readpnm__FP7__sFILEPiT1PUsT1(), 'cause the link line > reports: > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_readpnm__FP7__sFILEPiT1PUsT1' referenced from > text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced Eric, in C++ the function call some_func(int) is completely different than the call some_func(double) or some_func(char). The string of types being returned, and the class of the function, are encoded in the name that you see from the linker, and you have to be able to convert. There are two ways to do this. You can get the Annotated C++ Reference Manual (often called the ARM) and look up the rules in there. A second way, if you're using the gcc compiler, is to use a tool called c++filt. You just pipe any listing you have with those funny characters into it, and out spits fully qualified function names. Great for debugging. For gcc 2.6.3, you have to get the gnu binutils, its one of the utilities that get built. If you try that, about half of the binutils won't build, and that's perfectly all right, because c++filt will build. Alternatively, mail me and I'll send you the binary; WARNING, my binary was built using current, and wants the 2.2 libc. > from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced > from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pnm_promoteformat__FPP5pixeliiUsiUsi' referenced > from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_freearray__FPPci' referenced from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_allocarray__Fiii' referenced from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_ppm_writeppm__FP7__sFILEPP5pixeliiUsi' referenced > from text segment > editor.o: Undefined symbol `_pm_freearray__FPPci' referenced from text segment > *** Error code 1 > > > help. > > eric. > > -- > erich@lodgenet.com > erich@rrnet.com > > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 14:51:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05518 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05343 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.12/1.53) id XAA14460; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:48:57 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199603042248.XAA14460@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:48:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603041821.LAA06269@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 4, 96 11:21:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point > > changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. > > As I understand it, these changes were never committed. Patience, patience. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 14:55:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05886 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA05875 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA14402; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:29:32 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603042259.JAA14402@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Linux IDL running under -current! To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:29:31 +1030 (CST) Cc: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603020355.UAA16736@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Mar 1, 96 08:55:07 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > How should we coordinate things as far as 'combined pressure' is > > involved? > > I would mention that you announced something on the FreeBSD lists > regarding IDL, and some folks from Lockheed and SRI were *very* > interested in getting versions of IDL which ran under FreeBSD as well. Well, having had a _very_ short and satisfying conversation with RSI's technical support people, I'm extremely pleased to announce that the Linux version of RSI's IDL (Interactive Data Language) is working properly under FreeBSD-current. Until Peter's recent changes, the demo worked, but the license manager refused to accept valid keys. This is no longer the case. Hats off to Peter and Soren; looks like I owe a few beers around the place! (If you're after more info on IDL, http://www.rsinc.com ) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 15:05:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06975 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06970 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA23235; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:05:17 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:05:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Michael Smith Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux IDL running under -current! In-Reply-To: <199603042259.JAA14402@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, having had a _very_ short and satisfying conversation with RSI's > technical support people, I'm extremely pleased to announce that > the Linux version of RSI's IDL (Interactive Data Language) is working > properly under FreeBSD-current. Whoa! Will have I have to make any changes to anythings (I remember uname being mentioned once) to get this working, or is this now a box stock "Install -current and the Linuxulator and go"? Congratulations! I want in! Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 15:16:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08049 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:16:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08044 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA14544; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:50:03 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603042320.JAA14544@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linux IDL running under -current! To: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com (Brian N. Handy) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:50:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian N. Handy" at Mar 4, 96 03:05:16 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Brian N. Handy stands accused of saying: > > > Well, having had a _very_ short and satisfying conversation with RSI's > > technical support people, I'm extremely pleased to announce that > > the Linux version of RSI's IDL (Interactive Data Language) is working > > properly under FreeBSD-current. > > Whoa! Will have I have to make any changes to anythings (I remember > uname being mentioned once) to get this working, or is this now a box > stock "Install -current and the Linuxulator and go"? This machine was installed as : - Install 2.1R (bin,manpages,info,dict) and XFree86. - rdist -current source tree - make world, kernel with 'options LINUX' - reboot - install linux lib stuff (genver wants these) - install IDL. Edit all scripts in /usr/local/rsi/idl/bin and add a case for "FreeBSD" next to the "Linux" cases. - run genver, get key from RSI - create Linux-style /compat/linux/etc/host.conf, reads "order hosts,bind" - run IDL The 'uname' hack isn't so great, as the IDL scripts are run by your normal sh, so unless you alias-wrap everything, you still lose. A small hack to the shellscripts is much more civil. > Brian -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 15:41:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09566 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09560 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA16954; Mon, 4 Mar 96 17:41:36 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA01847; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:41:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:41:34 -0700 Message-Id: <9603042341.AA01847@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu Cc: erich@lodgenet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from Chuck Robey on Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:08:47 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: C++ and wierd symbols Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Robey writes: Chuck> ... a tool called c++filt. Is there any chance we can get this into the base FreeBSD distribution ... /usr/bin/c++filt? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 15:52:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10117 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10111 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA18830; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:50:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199603042350.PAA18830@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xfs not working properly In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 11:19:00 MST." <199603041819.LAA06257@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 15:50:41 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >And there is the real fix (go to device/extent based caching and I don't agree with this. I prefer the existing model. >clean up most of vfs_subr.c, especially the vclean crap), which >introduces a 2G limit on logical device size instead of just a >2G limit on open file size. Unless we eat the additional overhead >for 64 bit offsets in the VM systems. The file size limit is currently 1TB in FreeBSD. I have no interest in going backwards. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 15:58:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10264 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:58:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10256 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA14958; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:32:04 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603050002.KAA14958@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:32:03 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603041819.LAA06257@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 4, 96 11:19:00 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > [ ... re: using xfs ... ] > > > Please get your facts straight here. The FreeBSD NFS server is not "much > > slower", the problem is that the _DOS_clients_ are "much slower". > > The DOS clients are generally broken, unless they have local cache, > but the FreeBSD NFS server is also "much slower". Hmm. I'll agree that NFS servers are, in general, not so snappy, but the FreeBSD server does a pretty good job, really. It's certainly not responsible for the atrocious performance the original poster was complaining about. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 16:08:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10779 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10774 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA24411; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:07:58 -0800 (PST) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers), joluca@mbox1.ufsc.br Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 08:55:14 +0100." <199603040755.IAA09702@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 16:07:57 -0800 Message-ID: <24409.825984477@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I would like in DOSEMU for FreeBSD. I have much dos binaries files > and I interessed in this program. > > There's a `pcemu' in the port. It's a software emulation of an 8086, > and a BIOS emulation for text mode. It runs almost all text-mode DOS > applications. > > `dosemu' is more complicated, it requires a VM86 mode. Nobody seems > to have done it by now. But there's still hope that other deals may come together.. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 16:16:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA11240 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11234 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:16:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA06970; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:11:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603050011.RAA06970@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:11:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603042350.PAA18830@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 4, 96 03:50:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >And there is the real fix (go to device/extent based caching and > > I don't agree with this. I prefer the existing model. The vnode/inode "dissociation" code is broken (remember the "free vnode isn't" panic?). My kludge around the problem is only a kludge. The big mess is really the seperation of lock state into routines that must be correctly duplicated for each and every file system (one of the failures of the MSDOSFS is that this duplication is not correct in the MSDOSFS case). It's a common function, it shoukd take place in common code. I'd be happy to discuss the bogosities in the UFS ihash code in detail with you. > >clean up most of vfs_subr.c, especially the vclean crap), which > >introduces a 2G limit on logical device size instead of just a > >2G limit on open file size. Unless we eat the additional overhead > >for 64 bit offsets in the VM systems. > > The file size limit is currently 1TB in FreeBSD. I have no interest in going > backwards. What is the logical device size limit? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 16:19:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA11368 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11358 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA07009; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:15:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603050015.RAA07009@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:15:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603042248.XAA14460@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Mar 4, 96 11:48:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point > > > changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. > > > > As I understand it, these changes were never committed. > > Patience, patience. 8-). If it's taking long enough for a totally new set of users to rediscover the problem, it's probably taking too long... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 16:24:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA11788 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11780 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA07035; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:19:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603050019.RAA07035@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:19:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603050002.KAA14958@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Mar 5, 96 10:32:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The DOS clients are generally broken, unless they have local cache, > > but the FreeBSD NFS server is also "much slower". > > Hmm. I'll agree that NFS servers are, in general, not so snappy, but the > FreeBSD server does a pretty good job, really. It's certainly not responsible > for the atrocious performance the original poster was complaining about. Wasn't my point. My point is that there is room for improvement. I'd like to see variant LRU insertion order as well, FWIW, based on a per vnode working set quota to prevent mmap'ing and sequentially accessing an mmap'ed file (ie: "cp") from thrashing the cache. When you hit the quota, you steal from your vnode instead of from the global LRU (need to use a bit, like VEXEC, to defeat this behaviour for shared pages, though...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 16:53:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA13269 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dilbert.oasysinc.com ([199.165.197.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13262 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeki.oasysinc.com ([199.165.197.104]) by dilbert.oasysinc.com (post.office MTA v1.9.1 evaluation license) with SMTP id AAA421 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:49:02 -0800 Received: by zeki.oasysinc.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BB09EC.AAEB4DA0@zeki.oasysinc.com>; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:04:36 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB09EC.AAEB4DA0@zeki.oasysinc.com> From: Zeki@Dilbert.Oasysinc.com (Zeki Basbuyuk) To: "'Hackers'" Subject: Kernel Hacking help Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:04:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi,=20 I am writing some low level ip code (Of course under FREEBSD :-)). I = need some help on hacking the kernel, understanding memory management, = allocating / deallocating memory blocks, command line interface to = configure the program. I started dissecting IPFW to learn the internals of the kernel, ip stuff = and I'm lost!. Is there any more documentation on the implementation of = IPFW? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 17:01:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA13797 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13787 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA19055; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:55:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199603050055.QAA19055@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xfs not working properly In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 17:11:51 MST." <199603050011.RAA06970@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 16:55:35 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> The file size limit is currently 1TB in FreeBSD. I have no interest in going >> backwards. > >What is the logical device size limit? 8TB. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 17:01:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA13828 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13814 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA19104; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:01:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199603050101.RAA19104@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xfs not working properly In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 17:19:19 MST." <199603050019.RAA07035@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 17:01:03 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > The DOS clients are generally broken, unless they have local cache, >> > but the FreeBSD NFS server is also "much slower". >> >> Hmm. I'll agree that NFS servers are, in general, not so snappy, but the >> FreeBSD server does a pretty good job, really. It's certainly not responsible >> for the atrocious performance the original poster was complaining about. > >Wasn't my point. My point is that there is room for improvement. > >I'd like to see variant LRU insertion order as well, FWIW, based on >a per vnode working set quota to prevent mmap'ing and sequentially >accessing an mmap'ed file (ie: "cp") from thrashing the cache. When >you hit the quota, you steal from your vnode instead of from the >global LRU (need to use a bit, like VEXEC, to defeat this behaviour >for shared pages, though...). John and I have discussed this before. Basically, use vadvise(sequential) to inform the kernel that operations are primarily sequential, and then use some sort of per-vnode working set quota to throttle the memory consumption. ...but right now, we've got lot's of serious bugs to fix so projects like this only get worked on when we're looking for a break (e.g. low priority). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 17:32:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA15865 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA15856 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA04525 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:03:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199603050103.UAA04525@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost.rwwa.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gremlins changing [cm]time on files? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 13:14:12 EST." <9603011814.AA04520@sobeco.sobeco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 20:03:27 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The ctime and mtime of some files are changing. It has happened twice > now. I've seen this happen too, with suid files that show up in the daily security log. On the particular system there is no net connection and I'm the only user. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 17:39:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16356 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16341 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA07284; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:34:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603050134.SAA07284@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: xfs not working properly To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:34:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, monboso@masternet.it, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603050101.RAA19104@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 4, 96 05:01:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > John and I have discussed this before. Basically, use vadvise(sequential) > to inform the kernel that operations are primarily sequential, and then use > some sort of per-vnode working set quota to throttle the memory consumption. > ...but right now, we've got lot's of serious bugs to fix so projects like > this only get worked on when we're looking for a break (e.g. low priority). For what it's worth, BTW, an madvise type approach will fail to fix the problem if I'm running the SVR4/UnixWare developement environment under an ABI. The same is pretty much true of any commercial product, and commercial products for Linux are in the same boat. Short of that, I think we can determine advise for random I/O in terms of pageable images that are mapped executable, which should adequately handle the shared library and executable image problems, as well as swap store (since we control our own swap, us being the kernel and all 8-)). The default behaviour ought to be to quota-restrict the working set for a given vnode. It's possible to do the same thing on a per process basis, but that's a lot of work (it means indirect referencing ad summing the working set for shared files, which isn't really realistic). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 19:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25166 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25127 Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603050339.TAA25127@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB To: freebsd-scsi Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hardware, freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk here is a summary of my experiences with an Archive Anaconda scsi-2 1.35 GB QIC tape drive. many thanks to Stefan Esser who has once again worked miracles with the ncr scsi controller. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ Archive Anaconda 1.35 GB SCSI tape drive (summary) CSC (www.corpsys.com) sells a 1.3 GB QIC SCSI-2 tape drive for $200. its the Archive Anaconda now relabeled as a Connor (the pc board says Archive). The drive has been discontinued. I have not been able to locate a Connor advertisement for one. Spoke to sales and tech support at Connor today (960219). Archive was bought by Connor. Connor was bought by Seagate. The Anaconda has been discontinued. The unit was last shipped about a year ago. The recommended tape is the 3M Magnus DC-9135. Tech support recommends that the SCSI controller be configured for 5 MB/s operation, SYNC disabled, SCSI disconnect=no, and jumper jp6 open. (the jumper information is wrong. jp6 open == SCSI-1, jp6 shorted == SCSI-2) The tech doc is available from Connor's fax-back service: 1-408-456-4903 (?) document 2206 (?) (no fax machine here, i will verify this tomorrow) I bought one 2 weeks ago as an alternative to either 4mm DAT or 8mm Exabyte style drives. The drive did not work "out of the box" with FreeBSD 2.1. with the help of Stefan Esser (se@se@zpr.uni-koeln.de) I am now able to use the drive. The drive is advertised as a SCSI-2 drive. FreeBSD reports the drive as SCSI-1. Installing jumper jp6 causes FreeBSD to report the drive as SCSI-2. When operating as a SCSI-1 device (jp6 open) the drive does not conform to SCSI-1. The drive "locks" the scsi bus during at least some mt operations (eg fsf, rewind, rewoffl). When operating as a SCSI-2 device (jp6 shorted) the drive does not lock the scsi bus during the operations listed above. However to get the ncr working with /sbin/dump, the ncr requires a patch extending the latetime from 10 secs to a larger value. presently i am using 20 minutes. ;( but it works and its fast! it does not lock the bus while the dump is being written to tape. But the drive is fast :) dumping at over 370kB/s. I used "/sbin/dump 0unBbf 1200000 10 /dev/rst0 /dev/sd1f" Okay, now the details: Known: Normal SCSI-2 device (does NOT lock bus on fsf, rewind, rewoffl, or erase) Quasi-SCSI-1 device--locks scsi bus on some mt operations (fsf, rewind, rewoffl, erase, there may be others) The drive does NOT lock the bus during a dump to /dev/nrst0, so you can dump disks on the same scsi bus as the tape drive The unit has front panel eject button. this button does NOT lock the scsi bus. 56kB buffer on drive. (128kB see chip list below) One 8-1/2" x 11" double sided xeroxed page is all the technical documentation that comes with the drive. Uses QIC-1350 tapes aka DC-9135, which may not be easy to find (3 local stores do not stock them ;(( details from mail order below under "Media") Reads QIC-150 No hardware compression 350kB/s sustained tranfer rate. Rate varies with the media rate is the same for SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 operation QIC-150: 25288 tape blocks in 263 seconds (96kB/s) QIC-1350: 25288 tape blocks in 144 seconds (175kB/s) (note: these speeds are low. My root partition only has 25 MB of data on it. the setup time that dump requires skews the results.) QIC-1350: 212215 tape blocks in 583 seconds (364kB/s) QIC-1350: 572707 tape blocks in 1648 seconds (347kB/s) The unit does not have a front panel slider put the heads against the tape, rather the unit pulls the tape deep inside then pushes it forward (to open the gate) and finally slides the tape sideways to engage the heads. Drive is half-height, 5 1/4" wide. The scsi connector (on the rear of the drive) is mounted upside down (compared to my hard drives). (note: the 128kB buffer is probably used as 2-56kB buffers when writing to tape: the drive reads from one and writes to tape while the other is being filled from the scsi bus. when reading from tape, read to one buffer from the tape while writing to the scsi bus from the opther) Possible: May read QIC-525 (i dont have any) May write QIC-150, QIC-120, QIC-525, etc. (i dont have another drive to read the tapes that i create with the Anaconda) Media: Corporate Systems 1-408-734-3475 (same place i got the drive from) Verbatim $24.00 Connor Express 1-800-531-0968 9135 3M $49.00 each 8 in stock Media Source 1-800-241-8857 (andrew) 9135 1 5 10 Verbatim 28.29 26.94 26.94 no stock Sony 29.15 28.10 27.44 21 in stock Exxus 1-800-557-1000 (tory) 9135 3M 34.00 Sony 30.00 Maxell 29.00 Diskette Connection 1-800-654-4058 (randy) 9135 3M 32.10 Verbatim 28.95 dmesg output: when configured as SCSI-2: (ncr1:4:0): "ARCHIVE ANCDA 2750 28077 -003" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(ncr1:4:0): Sequential-Access st0(ncr1:4:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. density code 0x0, drive empty when configured as SCSI-1: (ncr1:4:0): "ARCHIVE ANCDA 2750 28077 -003" type 1 removable SCSI 1 st0(ncr1:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x12, drive empty Technical Specifications: Archive Ananconda Model 2750S Formatted capacity: 1.35 Gigabyte with 9135 tape Track format: 15 or 18 track erpentine [sic] (QIC-1350 standard says 30 tracks) Flux density: 12,500 ftpi [sic] (QIC-1350: 38,750 ftpi) Data density: 10,000 bpi [sic] (QIC-1350: 51,667 bpi) Data transfer rate: 112.5 KB/sec [sic] (testing shows 350 kBps) 10,000 bpi [sic] (QIC-1350: 51,667 bpi) Data transfer rate: 112.5 KB/sec [sic] (testing shows 350 kBps) Recording format: QIC [sic] (QIC-1350: NRZ1) SCSI burst data transfer rate: 1.88 MB/s Data buffer size: 56 KB (see chip list below) Tape speed: 90 ips Speed variations: short term +/- 4% long term +/- 7% Start/Stop time: 300 mSec (maximum) Head configuration: two-track, read-after-write (1 track in each direction) separate full-width erase Recording code: GCR (0,2) Run length limited [sic] Recording format: QIC [sic] (QIC-1350 RLL 1,7 with ECC) (QIC-1350 RLL 1,7 with Reed Solomon ECC) (note: the unit write two tracks at one time and erase's the entire tape in one pass. ) Jumpers: jp1-3: scsi id jp4: reserved (open) jp5: parity check enable (default disabled, open) (note: scsi-2 spec requires parity to be enabled) jp6: reserved (open) (scsi-1 open; scsi-2 shorted) jp7: terminator power enable (default disabled, open) 3 on-board sockets for passive terminators Chip list: 1 NCR 53c90B scsi protocol controller 1 AMD 80c186-16 embedded controller 4 KM44c256CJ-7 70ns, 4bit wide, 256kbit dram 2 KM41c256J-8 80 ns 1bit wide, 256kbit dram Other notes: drive frame is cast metal (pot metal). front panel is plastic. unit has a swinging door, hinged along its top side, that covers the tape slot. when there is a tape in the drive, the door is held up (open), when the tape is removed the door swings down and closes the slot. there is a spring holding the door closed. pc board is on top! there are 3 pieces of pc board material soldered to the pc board. each on is ~6mm high and several cm long. the scsi connector is mount upside down. pin 1 is most distant from the power connector. the cut out in the connector faces downward rather than upward. tapes are inserted with the metal backing plate down and the manufacturers label upward. during reset the heads are stepped down to the limited and then upward several tracks. the unit will over-step the heads, producing a chattering, if heads are already close to maximum depression. the metal backing plate of a QIC cartridge is warm after a backup. not hot, not a problem, but warm. feels good in the winter. ;) the pc board says "Archive copyright 1992" and "anaconda main pcb 81422- rev 001" (the 001 is hand written). also hand written is the number 631. the drive motor is "Lot 9348" 48th week of 1993 System data: ASUS SP3G, AMD486-66DX2, 256 kB L2 cache configured write-back, 16 MB, chipset is Saturn II (82424ZX). 2 SCSI busses: first bus is the on-board NCR53c810 SCSI-II controller and 2 disks: "DEC DSP3053LS X442" (id 0), "FUJITSU M1606S-512 6220" (id 1); second SCSI bus is an NCR SC-200 PCI card controller (also an NCR NCR53c810 SCSI-II) one cdrom changer "NRC MBR-7 110" (id 0), one disk "FUJITSU M1606S-512 6220" (id6), and the "ARCHIVE ANCDA 2750 28077 -003 (id 4)" Required kernel source patches: (the first one is already part of -current, the second accomodates the drive locking the SCSI bus) /src/sys/pci/ncr.c *************** *** 4441,4447 **** OUTB (nc_ctest4, 0x08 ); /* enable master parity checking */ OUTB (nc_stest2, EXT ); /* Extended Sreq/Sack filtering */ OUTB (nc_stest3, TE ); /* TolerANT enable */ ! OUTB (nc_stime0, 0xfb ); /* HTH = 1.6sec STO = 0.1 sec. */ /* ** Reinitialize usrsync. --- 4441,4447 ---- OUTB (nc_ctest4, 0x08 ); /* enable master parity checking */ OUTB (nc_stest2, EXT ); /* Extended Sreq/Sack filtering */ OUTB (nc_stest3, TE ); /* TolerANT enable */ ! OUTB (nc_stime0, 0x0b ); /* HTH = disabled, STO = 0.1 sec. */ /* ** Reinitialize usrsync. *************** *** 4832,4836 **** }; ! if (np->latetime>4) { /* ** Although we tried to wake it up, --- 4832,4836 ---- }; ! if (np->latetime>1200) { /* ** Although we tried to wake it up, From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 20:47:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00500 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA00486 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07828; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id XAA22688; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:46:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:46:47 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Sean Kelly cc: erich@lodgenet.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ and wierd symbols In-Reply-To: <9603042341.AA01847@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Sean Kelly wrote: > >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Robey writes: > > Chuck> ... a tool called c++filt. > > Is there any chance we can get this into the base FreeBSD > distribution ... /usr/bin/c++filt? The only way I know how to build it is to build binutils, and it's one of the few things in binutils that FreeBSD doesn't hack into pieces, so it works fine. I understand for gcc-2.7.2, they tossed it into the compiler package (where it clearly belonged). I don't know the legality of busting up the binutils code, so I could excerpt the c++filt stuff. I asked on the list about a year ago when I first found it, but got no straight answers. I am uneasy about that monstrous GPL license, I'm no lawyer and I don't want folks unhappy with me legally. I NEEDED c++filt for a beginning c++ class at the university. What a lifesaver! Anyone who codes in c++ is simply crazy not to have it. That is, of course, unless they never make a mistake ..... ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 21:14:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA02330 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from chaph.usc.edu (chaph.usc.edu [128.125.253.133]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02325 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nunki.usc.edu (dahanaya@nunki.usc.edu [128.125.253.160]) by chaph.usc.edu (8.7.2/8.7.2/usc) with ESMTP id VAA20992; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dahanaya@localhost) by nunki.usc.edu (8.7.2/8.7.2/usc) id VAA01340; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: Diyamanthi Dahanayake Message-Id: <199603050514.VAA01340@nunki.usc.edu> Subject: Re: Kernel Hacking help To: Zeki@Dilbert.Oasysinc.com (Zeki Basbuyuk) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:14:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <01BB09EC.AAEB4DA0@zeki.oasysinc.com> from "Zeki Basbuyuk" at Mar 4, 96 05:04:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi,=20 > > I am writing some low level ip code (Of course under FREEBSD :-)). I = > need some help on hacking the kernel, understanding memory management, = > allocating / deallocating memory blocks, command line interface to = > configure the program. Get the book on TCP/IP Illustrated vol.II by Gary R. Wright and W. Richard Stevens. This should suffice to get a start, but should not expect it to be upto date. But will, nevertheless be a good reference. It covers (almost complete) kernel level networking and should be able to proceed to the other kernel modules without much ado. > > I started dissecting IPFW to learn the internals of the kernel, ip stuff = > and I'm lost!. Is there any more documentation on the implementation of = > IPFW? > > Regards, DCD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 21:16:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA02449 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02444 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07075 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:16:46 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603050516.AAA07075@Glock.COM> Subject: backing up to removable media To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:16:45 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone on this list use a Zip Drive, Jaz Drive, or some other form of removeable media for doing backups? I recently purchased a SyQuest EZ135 Drive and I want to do backups to it using it as a raw character device (in this case /dev/rsd3). Anyhow, when I backup something that's smaller than the size of a cartridge, or do a multiple cartridge dump, I end up with only a portion of the last cartridge used (both under dump's scheme, and tar -M's scheme). Is there any way to get either of these programs to seek past a specifiable number of bytes before writing, and to output the number of bytes offset of the dump just completed before exiting? If you have an alternate scheme, please let me know. Thanks in advance! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 22:33:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13754 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pacman.symnet.net (www.rayner.com [199.44.6.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13733 Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dnelson@localhost) by pacman.symnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA08002; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:35:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: Dru Nelson To: questions@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FIX: resolver, named, sendmail problem (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My previous email was sent out through sendmail with an incorect masquerade setting. ------------------ Hello, Inside: a description of the problem and a question on where this should be documented I just installed Freebsd 2.1.0 from the Infomagic CD-ROM last week. It was easy :-). When I setup my system, I setup 'hostname' to be pacman.symnet.net. I also made that system a secondary DNS server. Another system was the MX host for symnet.net. SymNet is a class C network. According to the man pages, that is sufficient setup for this system's resolver setup. Everything looked fine until I noticed that mail going to any other machine on symnet.net wasn't working. The /var/log/maillogs indicated that it couldn't resolve core or digdug. I became very confused. I checked with nslookup. When it started, it would pick up pacman as the server and begin working. It had some problems (lock up) resolving names. Stated 'couldn't find server' after several minutes. I believe it worked right off the bat, but if I said server pacman, then lookups would bomb/lockup (early morning memory disorder) I tried a simple fix of using resolv.conf and set up my domain and primary DNS. Of course, this fixed all, but the idea of not understanding why something wasn't working made me look further. I noticed that when nslookup came up it stated its address as 0.0.0.0. This was related to the problem. I checked the sources in the resolver lib. I only got as far as the header because it described the solution. The resolver is compiled to not use the Loopback interface so it will use INADDR_ANY which will bind to the first ifconfig'd interface. This happens to be my loopback. It wasn't really stressed anywhere that the interfaces must be placed first in /etc/sysconfig's network_interfaces variables or anywhere else. It is really easy to just put the ether as the second interface to be setup. For my solution, I just made a resolv.conf with the info in order and the first nameserver as 127.0.0.1 . Any recognition of this email to know that it has gotten into the right mailbox would be humbly appreciated. dru dnelson@symnet.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 22:41:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15497 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15476 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA20540 ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 07:41:36 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA06737 ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 07:41:35 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id AAA23789; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:06:56 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603042306.AAA23789@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: can't compile the kernel... To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:06:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, monboso@masternet.it In-Reply-To: <199603042026.HAA27955@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Mar 5, 96 07:26:00 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1729 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Bruce Evans said: > It's almost optional in -current. The link problem went away several > months ago when some sysctl stuff was improved. The driver can > probably be left out on a stripped down system without any npx > hardware or math emulators. I think we can "play it safe" and make npx0 mandatory. It would spare us these questions (even if the answer is in the FAQ)... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 4 23:34:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from toplink1.toplink.net (toplink1.toplink.net [194.163.120.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25059 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 1996 23:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ck@localhost) by toplink1.toplink.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA07584 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:35:27 +0100 From: Christian Kratzer Message-Id: <199603050735.IAA07584@toplink1.toplink.net> Subject: Limti of processes per user To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:35:27 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi is there a hardcoded limit on the number of simultaneous processes or shells for a user. I often run into "cannot fork" errors when I work with several xterms on multiple desktops on FreeBSD 2.0r and 2.1r. I have checked sysctl -a but could not find anything that would be appropriate. Do I have to recompile the kernel to raise the limit or is there some other way (perhaps on a per user basis) ? Greetings Christian -- TopLink GbR, Internet Services info@toplink.net Christian Kratzer http://www.toplink.net/ Phone: +49 7452 87174 Fax: +49 7452 87175 FreeBSD spoken here! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 00:43:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA09250 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09234 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id BAA16089; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:47:52 -0700 Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA08594; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:43:32 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199603050843.BAA08594@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: Limti of processes per user To: ck@toplink.net (Christian Kratzer) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:43:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603050735.IAA07584@toplink1.toplink.net> from "Christian Kratzer" at Mar 5, 96 08:35:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk options "CHILD_MAX=##" Also might want to check the 'maxusers' setting in your kernel config file, if it's set particularly low. or, since you asked about sysctl: kern.maxproc kern.maxprocperuid (from man sysctl) I'm actually not sure if these work, though. :-) Either that, or the shell sets the values lower when it starts. Lo and behold, Christian Kratzer once said: > > Hi > > is there a hardcoded limit on the number of simultaneous processes > or shells for a user. I often run into "cannot fork" errors when I > work with several xterms on multiple desktops on FreeBSD 2.0r and 2.1r. > > I have checked sysctl -a but could not find anything that would be > appropriate. > > Do I have to recompile the kernel to raise the limit or is there some > other way (perhaps on a per user basis) ? > > Greetings > Christian > > -- > TopLink GbR, Internet Services info@toplink.net > Christian Kratzer http://www.toplink.net/ > Phone: +49 7452 87174 > Fax: +49 7452 87175 FreeBSD spoken here! > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 00:55:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA11471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA11466 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA05174 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:55:22 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA14943 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:50:52 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA23701 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:50:51 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA04828 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:39:30 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603050839.JAA04828@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:39:30 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603050339.TAA25127@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Mar 4, 96 07:39:25 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > here is a summary of my experiences with an Archive Anaconda scsi-2 > 1.35 GB QIC tape drive. many thanks to Stefan Esser who has once again > worked miracles with the ncr scsi controller. [Long and excellent summary deleted] I think this would best go to the FAQ. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 01:10:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA12655 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA12597 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11394; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:09:00 GMT Message-Id: <199603050909.JAA11394@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Christian Kratzer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Limti of processes per user In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 08:35:27 +0100." <199603050735.IAA07584@toplink1.toplink.net> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 09:08:57 +0000 From: Neil Brendan Clark Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Christian Kratzer writes: > >is there a hardcoded limit on the number of simultaneous processes >or shells for a user. I often run into "cannot fork" errors when I >work with several xterms on multiple desktops on FreeBSD 2.0r and 2.1r. I found a similar problem - if you are using csh or tcsh, it's easy to resolve. It seems that the default maximum number of processes allowed by csh is 40 - type "limit" and see the csh man page for more details. Something along the lines of "limit maxproc 100" in your or the system wide .cshrc should solve your woes. >Do I have to recompile the kernel to raise the limit or is there some >other way (perhaps on a per user basis) ? The above should work, but if you have a heavily loaded system you may still run into problems. In this case, increase the value of "maxusers" in the kernel config file and you'll be sorted. Check out the FreeBSD handbook to see the exact effect this has on the number of allowed processes (I can't remember the formula). -------- Neil Clark Transparent Telepresence Group http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 01:22:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA13263 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from toplink1.toplink.net (toplink1.toplink.net [194.163.120.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13248 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ck@localhost) by toplink1.toplink.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA10349; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:22:28 +0100 From: Christian Kratzer Message-Id: <199603050922.KAA10349@toplink1.toplink.net> Subject: Re: Limti of processes per user To: nbc@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (Neil Brendan Clark) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:22:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603050909.JAA11394@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> from "Neil Brendan Clark" at Mar 5, 96 09:08:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi > > Christian Kratzer writes: > > > >is there a hardcoded limit on the number of simultaneous processes > >or shells for a user. I often run into "cannot fork" errors when I > >work with several xterms on multiple desktops on FreeBSD 2.0r and 2.1r. > > I found a similar problem - if you are using csh or tcsh, it's easy to > resolve. It seems that the default maximum number of processes allowed > by csh is 40 - type "limit" and see the csh man page for more details. > Something along the lines of "limit maxproc 100" in your or the system wide > .cshrc should solve your woes. thanks! "set limitmaxproc 100" did the trick. Greetings Christian -- TopLink GbR, Internet Services info@toplink.net Christian Kratzer http://www.toplink.net/ Phone: +49 7452 87174 Fax: +49 7452 87175 FreeBSD spoken here! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 01:22:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA13327 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13241 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:22:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA15848; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:20:37 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA23784; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:20:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA05040; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:59:13 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603050859.JAA05040@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Limti of processes per user To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:59:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: ck@toplink.net, angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603050843.BAA08594@terra.aros.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Mar 5, 96 01:43:32 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Dave Andersen wrote: > > options "CHILD_MAX=##" This is a last-resort hack. > Also might want to check the 'maxusers' setting in your kernel config > file, if it's set particularly low. This doesn't influence the maximal number of simultaneous processes. The official way is to use the csh builtin `limit', or the Bourne- alike shell builtin `ulimit' to increase this number. Alas, our /bin/sh in previous releases didn't grok `ulimit', so the above hack was about your only chance. For a recent system, simply put ulimit -S -u 100 for example on top of your .xsession file (this is perhaps one thing where you would love it most). The setting is inherited to the children, and the xsession shell is the grandfather of all your processes under X11. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 01:31:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA13886 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA13880 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA05015 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:31:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199603050931.KAA05015@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 10:27:35 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "Brian Tao" at Mar 3, 96 2:29 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Just what would you folks like to see? :-) > > I'd like to see a 4-CD set. :) Keep the install and live FS > CD-ROM's, then add the uncompressed XFree86 source tree (with contrib, > games, everything), indexed mailing list archives, Greg's "Installing > and Running FreeBSD" book (if that's legal after it's in print) This is a "good news, bad news" situation. The bad news ist that it's not legal. The good news is, the book will come free with the CD-ROM. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 02:30:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA17528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA17461 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA09328 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:29:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199603051029.LAA09328@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: twin activities, where do they take place? To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 11:25:53 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603011812.TAA09297@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>; from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Mar 1, 96 7:12 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Christoph P. U. Kukulies enquired: > > Where are the TWIN (Willows) activities going on? I suppose that depends on which Willows activities you're talking about. I seem to recall a request a while back to dissociate Willows from hackers. I signed up for a private license with majordomo@www.willows.com. Here's an extract from the welcome message: + This is the mailing list for the TWIN XPDK from Willows Software. + + To request general information about Willows Software and the TWIN XPDK, + please send mail to: + + info@willows.com + + For support questions regarding the TWIN XPDK, send mail to: + + support@willows.com The volume of traffic won't kill you--I've had about 8 messages in a week. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 02:46:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA18380 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA18375 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA18563; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:48:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 02:48:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: # of sem undo structs? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk While working with INN1.4-unoff3 and some patches, it makes mention of some limitations under HPUX 8.0 that the number of semaphores that can have undo structs associated with them is 30 or so. Is there a similar limit under -current? If so, what option changes it? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 03:41:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA21669 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 03:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.cdngateway.pe.ca (cdngateway.pe.ca [205.151.204.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA21664 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 03:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from by ns.cdngateway.pe.ca with SMTP (IPAD 0.9.8) id 3694900 ; Tue, 05 Mar 96 07:40:12 UTC Message-ID: <313C6012.3376@cdngateway.pe.ca> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 07:38:58 -0800 From: Phil Holmstrom Technician Organization: Canadian Gateway Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: re: Intel Ethernet Express Pro 100b and installing Freebsd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have or know where I can obtain a boot disk for Freebsd with the Intel EthernetExpress Pro 100b card? I would like to install via ftp, however I need to somehow get the stupid driver onto the floppy. Any help is greatly appreciated. Phil From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 04:30:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA23966 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 04:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA23958 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 04:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA14783 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:25:32 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 5 Mar 96 15:25:32 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.4/8.7.3) id PAA01715; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:12:27 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199603051212.PAA01715@ache.dialup.ru> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:12:27 +0300 (MSK) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603042006.VAA14023@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at "Mar 4, 96 09:06:59 pm" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > As I understand it, changes were made to do single-point > > changes, and to speed all this up in the 'passwd' case. > > > > yep. That's what I did. It is still hanging around here, but I want > to commit it soon, possible protected with an #ifdef. > > I made patches for every command that changes a single user at a time, > chpass and friends, passwd, yppasswdd, pwd_mkdb. I did not do adduser (yet). > Do you solve order problems with different login names per same uid? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 05:08:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA25169 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA25164 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA19434; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:10:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:10:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3/4 -current thingie. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I hate this date problem... My clock is set right, how come FreeBSD can't figure it out? root 79 0.0 0.2 160 128 ?? Ss 30Apr62 0:00.44 rwhod root 88 0.0 0.0 196 144 ?? IWs 30Apr62 0:00.25 inetd root 95 0.0 0.0 236 180 ?? IWs 2May62 0:00.24 cron root 97 0.0 0.0 192 132 ?? IWs 30Apr62 0:00.03 lpd root 100 0.0 0.0 484 284 ?? IWs 3May62 0:00.04 sendmail: acce root 140 0.0 0.0 156 124 v0 IWs+ 29Apr62 0:00.02 /usr/libexec/g root 141 0.0 0.0 156 124 v1 IWs+ 3May62 0:00.02 /usr/libexec/g root 142 0.0 0.0 156 124 v2 IWs+ 30Apr62 0:00.02 /usr/libexec/g root 146 0.0 0.0 220 244 ?? IWs 3May62 0:01.42 telnetd mrcpu 147 0.0 0.0 448 220 p0 IWs 2May62 0:00.13 -csh (csh) root 152 0.0 0.0 464 260 p0 IW+ 4May62 0:00.44 -su (csh) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 05:59:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA26594 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.ctron.com (ctron.com [134.141.197.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA26588 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 05:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by gatekeeper.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA04667 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:59:42 -0500 Received: from stealth.ctron.com(134.141.5.107) by gatekeeper via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma004651; Tue Mar 5 08:59:40 1996 Received: from shadowfax.ctron.com by stealth.ctron.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08369; Tue, 5 Mar 96 08:53:18 EST Received: from thoth (thoth.ctron.com [134.141.65.91]) by shadowfax.ctron.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA16825 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:59:38 -0500 Received: from localhost by thoth (4.1/4.7) id AA12165; Tue, 5 Mar 96 08:59:59 EST Message-Id: <9603051359.AA12165@thoth> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: SIOCxARP Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 08:59:59 EST From: Alexander Seth Jones Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does FreeBSD define ioctl's for manipulating the arp cache? I found the "struct arpreq" structure, but I can't find any ioctl's to pass. Can someone tell me where they are located, or if they are supported? Gracias. Alex Jones From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 06:38:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA28637 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 06:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28607 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 06:38:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603051438.GAA28607@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: jmb cc: freebsd-scsi, freebsd-hardware, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 19:39:25 PST." <199603050339.TAA25127@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 06:38:23 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >The recommended tape is the 3M Magnus DC-9135. Tech support >recommends that the SCSI controller be configured for 5 MB/s >operation, SYNC disabled, SCSI disconnect=no, and jumper jp6 open. >(the jumper information is wrong. jp6 open == SCSI-1, jp6 shorted >== SCSI-2) The tech doc is available from Connor's fax-back service: >1-408-456-4903 (?) document 2206 (?) (no fax machine here, i will >verify this tomorrow) I think the tech people are off in space. Async maxes out at ~3MB/s, so it doesn't matter what the controller's sync rate is set to. You also want to have disconnection enabled for the driver or it will hand up the SCSI bus for other devices while its doing things like rewinding. Ughh. >When operating as a SCSI-1 device (jp6 open) the drive does not >conform to SCSI-1. The drive "locks" the scsi bus during at least >some mt operations (eg fsf, rewind, rewoffl). This is because it doesn't disconnect correct? >When operating as a SCSI-2 device (jp6 shorted) the drive does not >lock the scsi bus during the operations listed above. However to >get the ncr working with /sbin/dump, the ncr requires a patch >extending the latetime from 10 secs to a larger value. presently >i am using 20 minutes. ;( but it works and its fast! it does >not lock the bus while the dump is being written to tape. What does the latetime value affect? -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 08:30:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05886 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05869 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA15581; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:28:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:28:59 -0500 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199603051628.LAA15581@nomad.osmre.gov> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Q: install updated 2940 driver in 2.1-R? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am seeing the "silent reboot" problem in a machine with a 2940. Is it possible to install the new driver for this board in 2.1-R? If so, what files do I need and do I have to do anything besides replace the old files and re-build the kernel? TIA, Glen Foster From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 08:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07581 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07558 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA10842 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:49:46 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603051649.KAA10842@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Cogent Quartet Quad PCI Ethernet To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:49:45 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anybody have any experience with the Cogent Quartet EM964? (see http://www.cogentdata.com/products/em964.html) I'm looking for a quad port PCI Ethernet card that's supported by FreeBSD.. :-) Thanks, ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 09:29:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA09890 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:29:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09879 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA00074 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:28:40 +0100 Message-Id: <199603051728.AA00074@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:28:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Justin T. Gibbs" "Re: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB" (Mar 5, 6:38) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Subject: Re: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB Cc: freebsd-scsi@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mar 5, 6:38, "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: } Subject: Re: Archive Anconda Tape drive 1.35GB } >When operating as a SCSI-2 device (jp6 shorted) the drive does not } >lock the scsi bus during the operations listed above. However to } >get the ncr working with /sbin/dump, the ncr requires a patch } >extending the latetime from 10 secs to a larger value. presently } >i am using 20 minutes. ;( but it works and its fast! it does } >not lock the bus while the dump is being written to tape. } } What does the latetime value affect? The NCR updates a time variable whenever it passes a certain point in its main program loop. Once per second the driver checks the last update time of this variable, and issues a NCR start, if it hasn't been updated for more than a few seconds (this restart doesn't affect normal operation, it is a NOP if the controller is connected to some device). If the watchdog code finds the time variable has not been updated for "latetime" seconds, it assumes a severe fault and tries to reinitialize the NCR chip and the driver. This leads to much confusion, if the SCSI bus was locked for many minutes because of a tape not disconnecting on rewind ... I might remove this watchdog timer, since it seems to cause more problems than it solves (i.e. I don't know, whether it ever was triggered for its designed purpose) ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 09:34:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10345 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10334 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08012; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:37:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:37:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603051737.MAA08012@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: I'd like Samba Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I agree. I've been having problems as well and the documentation doesn't >> seem to be up to par. Although I don't think this is the place for the >> discussion (but I don't know where the right place is either ;). >> >> I've been trying to get my system working as well ( WFW 3.11 client with >> FreeBSD 2.1 server) I can mount any publicly available drive but >> something like /home just doesn't work. I can't seem to get the password >> authentication working. Something I did notice is that public drives get >> mounted as noboby ( ie GID, UID = 65535, 65535 ). This might explain why >> I can never get the right password. Passwords are a pain...and not well documented. We use the user = herb for each drive to override the "scanning" mechanism. Plus if you log in to a novell net it seems to want to use the same login name as you used for your primary login server. "user = " seemed to solve the problems. force user will change the permissions after login, so you can user "force user" and "force group" to set those as well. Obviously there is a security issue, but you can define the same mount point to different services...so you could implement security that way. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 09:59:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11465 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11460 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 09:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08077; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:01:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:01:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199603051801.NAA08077@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: aho@hyh.pc.my (Anthony Ho) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jkh writes... >Evaluate them both and see what you think. > >Sorry, but our position on this is that we won't make "use xxx over >yyy" statements given that it's impossible to even answer this >question correctly for any given query. Different people have >different needs, and whereas FreeBSD might be the clear choice for >one, BSDI may be a clear choice for another. > >In other words, we're not going to give you a canned answer, nor will >we attempt to cite "reasons" which may or may not even be relevant to >your situation. Get whichever OS the person who will be *maintaining* >your system is most comfortable with. > >Regards, > > Jordan > > >> We are thinking of setting up an Internet Server (for email and web, >> ftp). >> >> Should we use FreeBSD or BSDI. Please give reasons. >> >> Thks. >> >> --- Well, we DO make recommendations. Its pretty hard to evaluate a product in a live environment when it takes so much work to get it set up and running. They're both substantially similar...there is no "stability" advantage of one over the other. BSDI's support of dial-in cards is better (for now), but it lags behind several months in features. The only good reason to pay for it is if you are a newbie and need telephone support, which is not nearly as good as it was 18months ago. If you have to put up multiple servers, BSDI can get pretty expensive without much advantage. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 10:17:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12526 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12521 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA00862; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:14:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603051814.KAA00862@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Cogent Quartet Quad PCI Ethernet To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603051649.KAA10842@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Mar 5, 96 10:49:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk look at the Z'NYX ZX314 it also has 4 of the DEC chips on it and will 'Probably' work.. if not, I'm about to start hacking on one so it'll work soon if it doesn't already. looks to be a VERY similar board > > > Does anybody have any experience with the Cogent Quartet EM964? (see > http://www.cogentdata.com/products/em964.html) > > I'm looking for a quad port PCI Ethernet card that's supported by FreeBSD.. > :-) > > Thanks, > > ... JG > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 10:31:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13441 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13435 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA00913; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:30:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603051830.KAA00913@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:30:42 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: aho@hyh.pc.my, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603051801.NAA08077@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Mar 5, 96 01:01:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jkh writes... >Evaluate them both and see what you think. > >Sorry, but our position on this is that we won't make "use xxx over >yyy" statements given that it's impossible to even answer this >question correctly for any given query. Different people have >different needs, and whereas FreeBSD might be the clear choice for >one, BSDI may be a clear choice for another. > >In other words, we're not going to give you a canned answer, nor will >we attempt to cite "reasons" which may or may not even be relevant to >your situation. Get whichever OS the person who will be *maintaining* >your system is most comfortable with. > >Regards, > > Jordan > > My personal idea woudl be, "As FreeBSD is Free, you lose nothing by trying it out, and if you don't like it you can then pay for BSDI. Most of what you learned on FreeBSD will be relevant for FeeBSD^H^H^H^H^H^H BSDI. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 11:03:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15536 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15510 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08237; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:06:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:06:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199603051906.OAA08237@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "JULIAN Elischer" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: aho@hyh.pc.my, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes... > > jkh writes... > > >Evaluate them both and see what you think. > > > >Sorry, but our position on this is that we won't make "use xxx over > >yyy" statements given that it's impossible to even answer this > >question correctly for any given query. Different people have > >different needs, and whereas FreeBSD might be the clear choice for > >one, BSDI may be a clear choice for another. > > > >In other words, we're not going to give you a canned answer, nor will > >we attempt to cite "reasons" which may or may not even be relevant to > >your situation. Get whichever OS the person who will be *maintaining* > >your system is most comfortable with. > > > >Regards, > > > > Jordan > > > > > My personal idea woudl be, "As FreeBSD is Free, you lose nothing by trying > it out, and if you don't like it you can then pay for BSDI. Most of what you > learned on FreeBSD will be relevant for FeeBSD^H^H^H^H^H^H BSDI. Only the code is free. The installation costs money. The use of the serial line while your trying it costs money. The time it takes to learn how to set up and go through the unavoidable setup problems costs money. The cost of time exceeds the cost of the software by a factor of 10 for BSDI. Its very expensive to chose the wrong product even if its free initially. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 11:35:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17922 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17886 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:35:21 -0800 (PST) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc210.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tu2VQ-000jCbC; Tue, 5 Mar 96 13:34 CST Received: by sunc210.tellabs.com (SMI-8.6/1.9) id NAA02303; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:34:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199603051934.NAA02303@sunc210.tellabs.com> Subject: Triton-II support... when? To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:34:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greetings - I understand that the new Triton-II chipset will be making its debut on system boards around the end of March. I've heard it will provide for an ~5% memory access speed gain, plus concurrent access to PCI and ISA busses (whatever that buys me). Perhaps someone else can explain these things better than I, and put the purported benefits of Triton-II into perspective for us non-chipset-savvy buyers. I was about to upgrade a 486/50 to a 133Mhz Endevour. My questions are: o What will Triton-II really buy me? o Is it worth a 4-6 week wait for Triton-II main boards to arrive? o Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on Triton-II main boards as-is? o If not, how long will it be before Triton-II support is added to the FreeBSD kernel? Any comments welcome... Thanks! - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 11:38:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18133 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns.borderware.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18128 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:38:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-1>; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:46:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:35:09 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: SAMBA and WFW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar5.144601est.20483-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been trying for about 3 weeks now to get WFW 3.11 to access my samba drives.... Can some nice sole send me their smb.conf files...... All I need at the moment is the ability to have WFW access my /home filesystem.... Nothing more... Please include all commands that are needed to start it up.. In case I am missing something . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 11:50:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18686 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18630 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA09737; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:50:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:50:26 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Greg Lehey cc: "Hackers; FreeBSD" Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <199603050931.KAA05009@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > This is a "good news, bad news" situation. The bad news ist that it's > not legal. The good news is, the book will come free with the CD-ROM. Excellent! Any word on pricing of the package (or is the book really being given away with each CD set purchase)? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:16:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20378 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20363 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA02226 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:13:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199603052013.AA02226@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:13:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: mikebo@tellabs.com "Triton-II support... when?" (Mar 5, 13:34) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: mikebo@tellabs.com Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? Cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 5, 13:34, mikebo@tellabs.com wrote: } Subject: Triton-II support... when? } Greetings - } I understand that the new Triton-II chipset will be making its debut } on system boards around the end of March. I've heard it will provide for } an ~5% memory access speed gain, plus concurrent access to PCI and ISA } busses (whatever that buys me). Perhaps someone else can explain these } things better than I, and put the purported benefits of Triton-II into } perspective for us non-chipset-savvy buyers. } } I was about to upgrade a 486/50 to a 133Mhz Endevour. My questions are: } o What will Triton-II really buy me? It should be a high performance chip set with support for ECC memory and multiple Pentium CPUs. } o Is it worth a 4-6 week wait for Triton-II main boards to arrive? How could we tell whether it's worth it for YOU ? } o Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on Triton-II main boards as-is? I expect it to run out of the box. Let me know, if it doesn't. } o If not, how long will it be before Triton-II support is added to } the FreeBSD kernel? Depends on the quality of the boot message logs I get sent: Hours, if they are OK :) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21457 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:29:16 -0800 (PST) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc210.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tu3Lg-000jCFC; Tue, 5 Mar 96 14:28 CST Received: by sunc210.tellabs.com (SMI-8.6/1.9) id OAA02440; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:28:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199603052028.OAA02440@sunc210.tellabs.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:28:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec), questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603052013.AA02226@Sysiphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Mar 5, 96 09:13:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stephan - You wrote: > On Mar 5, 13:34, mikebo@tellabs.com wrote: > } o Is it worth a 4-6 week wait for Triton-II main boards to arrive? > > How could we tell whether it's worth it > for YOU ? > I guess I was looking for personal recommendations such as: Triton-II will make ordinary Triton main boards obsolete overnight! Only a FOOL would buy a Triton main board at this point because... (INSERT COMPELLING REASONS HERE!). Based on what you wrote, I would not realize much benefit from waiting. - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:40:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22404 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22399 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by mail11.digital.com (5.65v3.2/1.0/WV) id AA20762; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:25:43 -0500 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA28706; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:25:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA12219; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:28:12 GMT Message-Id: <199603052028.UAA12219@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cogent Quartet Quad PCI Ethernet In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 10:49:45 CST." <199603051649.KAA10842@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 20:28:11 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Use the ZNYX ZX314. Cogent would never release the info to make their card work. Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt.html Westford, MA Disclaimer: I disavow all knowledge of this message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:43:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22595 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22575 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:42:58 -0800 (PST) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc210.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tu3Yr-000jC3C; Tue, 5 Mar 96 14:42 CST Received: by sunc210.tellabs.com (SMI-8.6/1.9) id OAA02506; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:42:17 -0600 Message-Id: <199603052042.OAA02506@sunc210.tellabs.com> Subject: RSA REF 2.0: Anyone ported it to FBSD yet? To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:42:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I looked in the packages area, but didn't see this one... Anyone know of any RSAREF(TM) 2.0 port being done for FreeBSD? - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:50:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23304 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23269 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:49:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09028; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:47:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603052047.NAA09028@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: mikebo@tellabs.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:47:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, mikebo@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603051934.NAA02303@sunc210.tellabs.com> from "mikebo@tellabs.com" at Mar 5, 96 01:34:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I understand that the new Triton-II chipset will be making its debut > on system boards around the end of March. I've heard it will provide for > an ~5% memory access speed gain, plus concurrent access to PCI and ISA > busses (whatever that buys me). Perhaps someone else can explain these > things better than I, and put the purported benefits of Triton-II into > perspective for us non-chipset-savvy buyers. > > I was about to upgrade a 486/50 to a 133Mhz Endevour. My questions are: > o What will Triton-II really buy me? It fixes the cache writeback bug in the Triton-I. > o Is it worth a 4-6 week wait for Triton-II main boards to arrive? Is working hardware better than broken hardware? 8-). > o Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on Triton-II main boards as-is? Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on a P5 without the floating point bug? The question is basically a non-sequitur -- there is no function difference in the chipsets except the Triton-II happens to work. > o If not, how long will it be before Triton-II support is added to > the FreeBSD kernel? FreeBSD supports the Triton chipset. Since the difference between the I and II is the cache bug is fixed in the II, I can't see where fixing a bug could make it not run. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 12:59:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24064 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24055 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA07914; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:57:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199603052057.MAA07914@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: "JULIAN Elischer" , aho@hyh.pc.my, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 14:06:38 EST." <199603051906.OAA08237@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 12:57:49 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Oh, I don't know I think that what the original poster meant to ask was if there was any inherent deficiency in FreeBSD or BSDI given that BSDI or FreeBSD from a user's perspective are about the same. I guess the dominating factor here is what does the systems programmer feel most confortable or if he has any peers that are running the same OS which he can benefit from their experiences. As for the cost of an installation and testing of a new OS in a ISP environment, you can't avoid the cost. I would test the environ for a while. Over the long term support has got to be biggest concern and then upgradibility as new releases are rolled out. Amancio >>> dennis said: > Julian Elischer writes... > > > > > jkh writes... > > > > >Evaluate them both and see what you think. > > > > > >Sorry, but our position on this is that we won't make "use xxx over > > >yyy" statements given that it's impossible to even answer this > > >question correctly for any given query. Different people have > > >different needs, and whereas FreeBSD might be the clear choice for > > >one, BSDI may be a clear choice for another. > > > > > >In other words, we're not going to give you a canned answer, nor will > > >we attempt to cite "reasons" which may or may not even be relevant to > > >your situation. Get whichever OS the person who will be *maintaining* > > >your system is most comfortable with. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > Jordan > > > > > > > > My personal idea woudl be, "As FreeBSD is Free, you lose nothing by trying > > it out, and if you don't like it you can then pay for BSDI. Most of what y ou > > learned on FreeBSD will be relevant for FeeBSD^H^H^H^H^H^H BSDI. > > Only the code is free. The installation costs money. The use of the serial > line while your trying it costs money. The time it takes to learn how to > set up and go through the unavoidable setup problems costs money. > The cost of time exceeds the cost of the software by a factor of 10 for > BSDI. Its very expensive to chose the wrong product even if its free > initially. > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 13:35:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26799 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26781 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA02585 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:30:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199603052130.AA02585@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:30:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: mikebo@tellabs.com "Re: Triton-II support... when?" (Mar 5, 14:28) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: mikebo@tellabs.com Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? Cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 5, 14:28, mikebo@tellabs.com wrote: } Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? } Stephan - } You wrote: } > On Mar 5, 13:34, mikebo@tellabs.com wrote: } > } o Is it worth a 4-6 week wait for Triton-II main boards to arrive? } > } > How could we tell whether it's worth it } > for YOU ? } > } I guess I was looking for personal recommendations such as: } Triton-II will make ordinary Triton main boards obsolete overnight! } Only a FOOL would buy a Triton main board at this point because... } (INSERT COMPELLING REASONS HERE!). } } Based on what you wrote, I would not realize much benefit from waiting. Well, ECC would be enough of a reason for me! I really don't like the lack of parity on the Triton, though I'd rather use a Triton than a Neptun (that did support Parity) for performance reasons. Now you get even more than that. Very good for a heavily loaded server that has to stay up for months ... I wouldn't expect much performance benefit, and multi-processor is currently of no value for me (I hate multi-threaded programs ;-) Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 13:44:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27598 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27592 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:44:42 -0800 (PST) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc210.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tu4Wh-000jGLC; Tue, 5 Mar 96 15:44 CST Received: by sunc210.tellabs.com (SMI-8.6/1.9) id PAA02531; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:44:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199603052144.PAA02531@sunc210.tellabs.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:44:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec), questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603052047.NAA09028@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 5, 96 01:47:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > o Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on Triton-II main boards as-is? > > Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on a P5 without the floating point > bug? The question is basically a non-sequitur -- there is no function > difference in the chipsets except the Triton-II happens to work. > Are a lot of people running FreeBSD with their Level-2 caches off? > > FreeBSD supports the Triton chipset. Since the difference between the > I and II is the cache bug is fixed in the II, I can't see where fixing > a bug could make it not run. > As I understand it, there are much more profound changes than simply one bug fix. I've been told that Triton-II: o fixes a write-back cache bug o nominally speeds all memory accesses ~5% o adds support for concurrent PCI/ISA bus accesses o adds support for multi-processing o adds support for ECC memory Seems like a *lot* more functionality than can be accounted for by a simple bug fix, no? Perhaps Terry means Triton-II implements a superset of Triton-I functionality (plus the cache bug fix) so there's no reason existing kernel code would break? That's great... I thought perhaps there was more purpose to the chipset sensing code in /usr/src/sys/pci/pcisupport.c . - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 14:15:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00149 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:15:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00144 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA05925; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 23:15:44 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05834 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 23:15:21 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA04210 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:20:10 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA00459; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:24:00 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199603051824.TAA00459@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: 3/4 -current thingie. To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:24:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 5, 96 05:10:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I hate this date problem... My clock is set right, how come FreeBSD can't > figure it out? > > root 79 0.0 0.2 160 128 ?? Ss 30Apr62 0:00.44 rwhod > root 88 0.0 0.0 196 144 ?? IWs 30Apr62 0:00.25 inetd the 60's: free love, free operating systems ;-) _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 14:22:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00921 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00906 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from linda.teleport.com (mrl@linda.teleport.com [192.108.254.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16239 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:21 -0800 From: Mostyn/Annabella Received: (mrl@localhost) by linda.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04478 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199603052222.OAA04478@linda.teleport.com> Subject: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The subject says it. Is there a goal for release? Mostyn Lewis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 14:33:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01904 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01877 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA22355; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:34:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:34:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It's still broken, exhibits the same behaviour as a 2.1-release box, where it has problems with the active file. It would be nice if this would eventually get fixed, even if just for correctness sake, as opposed to any measurable performance increase. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 15:03:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04252 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:03:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04247 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:03:30 -0800 (PST) From: NIMALIN@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA03288 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:02:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:02:59 -0500 Message-ID: <960305180258_161026659@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: which cdrom drives support F.BSD 2.1? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk i am going to buy a new machine with an IDE cdrom drive to install freeBSD 2.1 as i heard it supports IDE cdrom interface;but i don't know exactley which are they! SO would you please be kind to tell me which IDE cdrom drives (brands) are supported by FreeBSD 2.1. thanks, send to:NIMALIN@aol.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 15:12:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05032 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05016 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA09368; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:08:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603052308.QAA09368@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: mikebo@tellabs.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:08:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, mikebo@eagle.safetynet.net, questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603052144.PAA02531@sunc210.tellabs.com> from "mikebo@tellabs.com" at Mar 5, 96 03:44:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > o Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on Triton-II main boards as-is? > > > > Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on a P5 without the floating point > > bug? The question is basically a non-sequitur -- there is no function > > difference in the chipsets except the Triton-II happens to work. > > > Are a lot of people running FreeBSD with their Level-2 caches off? Not "off"; with writeback disabled (pick "write through in BIOS CMOS, I believe). > As I understand it, there are much more profound changes than simply > one bug fix. I've been told that Triton-II: > o fixes a write-back cache bug > o nominally speeds all memory accesses ~5% These two ar the same thing. > o adds support for concurrent PCI/ISA bus accesses Who uses ISA cards? > o adds support for multi-processing Assuming it's an MP motherboard, Triton I ought to do the same thing. > o adds support for ECC memory Still no parity, eh? 8-). > Seems like a *lot* more functionality than can be accounted for by a > simple bug fix, no? Perhaps Terry means Triton-II implements a superset > of Triton-I functionality (plus the cache bug fix) so there's no reason > existing kernel code would break? That's great... I thought perhaps > there was more purpose to the chipset sensing code in > /usr/src/sys/pci/pcisupport.c . I don't think bridge chipsets are programmed-to anyway. It's not like it can't run ing SMP spec virtual wire mode or has its own APIC. The sensing code is there for timers for ISA controller emulation, so at most it's a single line change (and that code is mostly to make the console speaker driver happy, AFAICT). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 15:36:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA07120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA07114 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA00365; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:36:12 -0800 (PST) To: Mostyn/Annabella cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 14:22:19 PST." <199603052222.OAA04478@linda.teleport.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 15:36:12 -0800 Message-ID: <363.826068972@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, but it's still somewhat unclear. Perhaps by the end of summer, though this could be moved ahead if we decide to punt on goals like devfs and PCCARD support. Jordan > The subject says it. Is there a goal for release? > > Mostyn Lewis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 15:56:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08867 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08860 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA23664; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:52:36 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199603051852.SAA23664@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:52:35 +0000 () Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 5, 96 02:34:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > It's still broken, exhibits the same behaviour as a 2.1-release box, > where it has problems with the active file. > > It would be nice if this would eventually get fixed, even if just for > correctness sake, as opposed to any measurable performance increase. > > There have been significant bugfixes in -current mmap. I wish we had a good model as to what is going on with the mmap code. I am running with an mmaped active file, but only have a partial feed. I used to have problems, but they have gone away for me. How current are you running? John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 16:54:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12143 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12137 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA25844; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:56:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:56:36 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603060056.RAA25844@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-Reply-To: <199603052308.QAA09368@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199603052144.PAA02531@sunc210.tellabs.com> <199603052308.QAA09368@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > o adds support for ECC memory > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). ECC memory is parity memory. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 16:55:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12231 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA12226 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gate.gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.6.12) id IAA03035; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:52:32 +0800 (HKT) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:52:32 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: double mail Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I seem to be getting every message from this list in duplicate. I could be a problem at my end. Does anyone else have the problem? jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 17:53:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16074 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16069 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA22723; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:56:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:56:17 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Jon Loeliger cc: Joe Greco , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-Reply-To: <199602282134.PAA07301@chrome.jdl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jon Loeliger wrote: > > And, on the other hand, it's kinda cool NOT to too: > > This is command 8464 in one window: > chrome 8464 % ps auxwww | grep bin/emacs > jdl 405 0.0 9.8 5956 1380 v0 SN 4Feb96 29:03.22 /usr/ > local/bin/emacs -display :0 -geometry 80x50+675+0 -f server-start What sort of limits might we be running into with long-lived processes? The oldest one I have on our machines is our IRC server: # date Tue Mar 5 19:53:52 EST 1996 # ps aux | head -2 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND andrew 6069 1.7 26.9 18268 17068 ?? SN 7Feb96 2834:23.83 /usr/ircd/ircd I imagine the CPU time will eventually wrap around, but other than that, the other bits of information should remain valid indefinitely. That's almost 2 days' worth of CPU time. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 18:06:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA17118 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA17111 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA23477; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:07:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:07:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: "John S. Dyson" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 In-Reply-To: <199603051852.SAA23664@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk 3/3 SNAP. Supped on 3/4 just for grins. On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > > > It's still broken, exhibits the same behaviour as a 2.1-release box, > > where it has problems with the active file. > > > > It would be nice if this would eventually get fixed, even if just for > > correctness sake, as opposed to any measurable performance increase. > > > > > There have been significant bugfixes in -current mmap. I wish we had > a good model as to what is going on with the mmap code. I am running > with an mmaped active file, but only have a partial feed. I used to > have problems, but they have gone away for me. How current are you > running? > > John > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 19:02:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21610 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21602 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA14996; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:01:51 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603060301.WAA14996@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: RSA REF 2.0: Anyone ported it to FBSD yet? To: mikebo@tellabs.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:01:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, mikebo@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603052042.OAA02506@sunc210.tellabs.com> from "mikebo@tellabs.com" at Mar 5, 96 02:42:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, > > I looked in the packages area, but didn't see this one... > Anyone know of any RSAREF(TM) 2.0 port being done for FreeBSD? > - Mike I beleive it's part of Apache SSL server ( see www.c2.org) . At least it comes as an object module. Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 19:41:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25394 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from csugrad.cs.vt.edu (cremeans@csugrad.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.74]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA25383 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (cremeans@localhost) by csugrad.cs.vt.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) id WAA10648; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:40:26 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans Message-Id: <199603060340.WAA10648@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> Subject: Re: Intel Atlantis problems To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:40:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603051836.LAA08752@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 5, 96 11:36:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [about MACH 64s and port 0x2e8] > > Thanks. Isn't this something that should go in the FAQ ? Or perhaps, > > could we remove 0x2e8 from > > > > static Port_t likely_com_ports[] = { 0x3f8, 0x2f8, 0x3e8, 0x2e8, }; > > > > in /sys/i386/isa/sio.c ? > > That's the hack. > > As to your idea, no. We should identify the Mach cards, or we should > relax the invasiveness of the SIO probe code to prevent the problem. This could work, since ATI cards in general are REALLY easy to identify. ATI writes their own BIOS usually, and grepping it for ATI's magic number should work (if that isn't a Bad Thing under Unix). The number was a string, something like "761992..." I don't remember exactly, I'll look it up in the INterrupt Lists. THere's also another number that tells you what kind of card you're working with. Lee C at school From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 19:52:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26767 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26744 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 19:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA09293; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:52:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:52:38 -0500 (EST) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Dell Dimension Problem -> Quantum Fireball Problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I found out the following: on-board IDE known-working IDE +------------------------------------- Fireball | no work no work Old 80MB sucker | work work Therefore, I conclude that the Quantum FIREBALL 1080AT does not work with FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE. Strange... Anybody know about this? Is anyone else using a FIREBALL 1080AT? For those that have forgotten, the problem was corrupted reads (perhas writes, too? I don't know...) from the drive with any moderate amount of activity. Marc. -- Excerpt from conversation between customer support person and customer working for a well-known military-affiliated research lab: "You're not our only customer, you know." "But we're one of the few with tactical nuclear weapons." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 20:22:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA29722 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29715 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:22:48 -0800 (PST) From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc210.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tuAjt-000jCFC; Tue, 5 Mar 96 22:22 CST Received: by sunc210.tellabs.com (SMI-8.6/1.9) id WAA05675; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:22:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199603060422.WAA05675@sunc210.tellabs.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:22:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: mikebo (Mike Borowiec) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: Terry Lambert writes: > > > o adds support for ECC memory > > > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). > > ECC memory is parity memory. > > Nate ECC requires parity memory (SIMMs) but is much better. Unlike simple parity error detection schemes which, when an error is detected, generate an NMI and crash your machine, ECC can detect and correct single bit errors. Much nicer... I wonder how we get messages about this occuring to syslog/console? - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 20:48:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03245 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03233 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00306; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:48:21 -0800 (PST) To: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI cc: FreeBSD-core@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, h-kimura@tokyo.se.fujitsu.co.jp Subject: Re: Updated fe Ethernet driver for 960226 SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 1996 20:03:11 +0900." <199603041103.UAA11650@sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 20:48:21 -0800 Message-ID: <304.826087701@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Dear FreeBSD core team and hackers, > > I just put the updated version of my fe driver on freefall, as: Anyone taking this one? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 21:06:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA06013 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06005 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:06:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA26261; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:08:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:08:38 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603060508.WAA26261@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: <363.826068972@time.cdrom.com> References: <199603052222.OAA04478@linda.teleport.com> <363.826068972@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > Yes, but it's still somewhat unclear. Perhaps by the end of summer, > though this could be moved ahead if we decide to punt on goals like > devfs and PCCARD support. Quick update: I'm working on PC-CARD support now for work, and I just downloaded the new APM 1.2 spec from Intel and M$ this afternoon. APM is currently very broken, so I'm trying to make it work before tackling the rest of the PC-CARD stuff. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 21:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA06550 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06248 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA23194; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:41:55 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603060511.PAA23194@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:41:55 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603060056.RAA25844@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Mar 5, 96 05:56:36 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > o adds support for ECC memory > > > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). > > ECC memory is parity memory. You mean Triton-II supports parity, and they're calling it ECC, or Triton-II supports ECC, and you're calling ECC parity? The latter is arguably incorrect, and is certainly incorrect in common usage. ECC setups usually use 39-bit stores for 32-bit words and Gray coding (or a variation theron) to provide single-bit correction and double- bit error detection. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 21:14:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07448 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01705; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:14:01 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 22:08:38 MST." <199603060508.WAA26261@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 21:14:01 -0800 Message-ID: <1699.826089241@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm working on PC-CARD support now for work, and I just downloaded the > new APM 1.2 spec from Intel and M$ this afternoon. APM is currently > very broken, so I'm trying to make it work before tackling the rest of > the PC-CARD stuff. Great! I didn't mean to denigrate the importance of devfs or PCCARD development, simply to state that some of our wish-list items might have to go in the list for 2.3 or something if we don't want to risk 2.2 becoming a kitchen-sink release with no chance of seeing the light of day before '97.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 21:33:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10193 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10186 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gate.gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.6.12) id NAA01352; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:29:17 +0800 (HKT) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:29:17 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Anthony Ho cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <149@hyh.pc.my> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 1. Both are good, mature systems and work well. 2. If you can get up and running on FreeBSD great. The more you know, the more reasons to go FreeBSD. 3. BSDI supposedly has telephone support but it will not do you much good in this time zone. 4. the FreeBSD support groups are friendly, helpful and the documentation is getting better all the time. There are a lot of ISPs running FreeBSD. 5. Be careful with both systems that you get compatible equipment but FreeBSD has more drivers. Read the equipment FAQs 6. $995 is without source code. It is very handy to have source code when a problem arises and you cannot understand what is happening. 7. BSDI comes with more systems configured but all of the ISP packages are available as packages (self installing) or ports (nearly so). My recommendation would be to go FreeBSD but only RELEASES 2.1.0 and later 2.2R unless you realy know what you are doing. I started with BSDI at Gateway.net.hk as a newbie and then installed FreeBSD on a big busy news server for another HK ISP In any event you are on the right track -- they are very similar systems. jbeukema On Sun, 3 Mar 1996, Anthony Ho wrote: > We are thinking of setting up an Internet Server (for email and web, > ftp). > > Should we use FreeBSD or BSDI. Please give reasons. > > Thks. > > --- > Anthony Ho fax: (605)-255-1215 > 121 Jalan Kuala Kangsar tel: (605)-254-9690 > 30010 Ipoh, Malaysia. tlx: MA 44340 > Internet: aho@hyh.pc.my > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 5 22:31:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18973 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18939 Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA02818; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:30:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199603060630.WAA02818@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Denis DeLaRoca 825-4580 (310) , multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: notebooks and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 22:30:22 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, The context here is mbone tools for notebooks and the current state of FreeBSD support for notebooks. A few people have expressed interest in using notebooks for multimedia purposes. So if anybody knows of a cool pcmia video capture card which we can support please let us know. Cheers, Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: CSP1DWD@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU Received: from MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (mvs.oac.ucla.edu [164.67.200.200]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA01355 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:32:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199603060032.QAA01355@rah.star-gate.com> Received: from UCLAMVS.BITNET by MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (IBM MVS SMTP V2R2.1) with BSMTP id 7621; Tue, 05 Mar 96 16:33:27 PST Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 16:33 PST To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." From: Denis DeLaRoca (310) 825-4580 Subject: Re: Re: Laptops in general On Tue, 05 Mar 1996 13:46:48 -0800, "Amancio Hasty Jr." said: > If a laptop has a parallel port then I don't see any reasons why a Quickcam wi > nv or vic will not work. > > Does anyone have a good pointer for pcmia video grabbers and of course a point > to how to program the pcimia grabber. But more basic, does FreeBSD run fine now on some of the latest SVGA notebooks with sound support and CD-ROMs... I understood that FreeBSD wasn't quite yet up to speed in regards PCMCIA and sleep/resume support. I'd be quite happy if I could merely use the MBONE tools in "receive" mode... - -- Denis ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 00:22:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA10368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA10340 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA17037 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:22:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199603060822.JAA17037@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 9:18:49 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD), aho@hyh.pc.my (Anthony Ho) In-Reply-To: <199603051906.OAA08237@etinc.com>; from "dennis" at Mar 5, 96 2:06 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Julian Elischer writes... > >> >> jkh writes... >> >>> Evaluate them both and see what you think. >>> >> My personal idea woudl be, "As FreeBSD is Free, you lose nothing by trying >> it out, and if you don't like it you can then pay for BSDI. Most of what you >> learned on FreeBSD will be relevant for FeeBSD^H^H^H^H^H^H BSDI. > > Only the code is free. The installation costs money. The use of the serial > line while your trying it costs money. The time it takes to learn how to > set up and go through the unavoidable setup problems costs money. > The cost of time exceeds the cost of the software by a factor of 10 for > BSDI. Its very expensive to chose the wrong product even if its free > initially. Well, I understand your statements individually, and I agree with most of them (not, a priori, with the ten-to-1 relationship between time and money--how did you calculate that?), but I don't understand what you're trying to say. Does this relate specifically to F[r]eeBSD? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 00:38:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA14053 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:38:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA13988 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA26925; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:43:03 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199603060843.JAA26925@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: SAMBA and WFW To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:43:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar5.144601est.20483-1@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 5, 96 02:35:09 pm Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I have been trying for about 3 weeks now to get WFW 3.11 to access my > samba drives.... > > Can some nice sole send me their smb.conf files...... Thanks for all the fish :-) Do you have TCP/IP installed under WfW 3.11 - You should, otherwise nogo. I start smbd/nmbd from /etc/rc.local: /usr/local/samba/bin/nmbd -B xxx.yyy.zzz.255 -G YOURGROUP /usr/local/samba/bin/smbd -D xxx.yyy.zzz stands for the network number portion of a class C net in this case. establish a guest and a pcguest account. Entry in /usr/local/samba/lib/smb.conf: [sample] path = /usr/kuku username = kuku printer name = lp0 print command = /usr/bin/lpr -h -P%p %s lpq command = /usr/bin/lpq -P%p printer name = lp0 read only = no writable = yes set directory = no > > All I need at the moment is the ability to have WFW access my > /home filesystem.... Nothing more... > > Please include all commands that are needed to start it up.. In case > I am missing something . > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect > the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. > > Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. > System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 > jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 00:48:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA16937 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA16916 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA03554; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:47:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199603060847.AAA03554@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 1996 17:56:36 MST." <199603060056.RAA25844@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 00:47:40 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I think that Triton II is supposed to have support for a high speed serial bus (I heard quotes of 12mbits/sec) which will be great to have 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 00:56:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18689 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18658 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19389 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:56:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199603060856.JAA19389@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 9:52:53 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603052308.QAA09368@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 5, 96 4:08 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Will FreeBSD 2.1-RELEASE boot/run on a P5 without the floating point >>> bug? The question is basically a non-sequitur -- there is no function >>> difference in the chipsets except the Triton-II happens to work. >>> >> Are a lot of people running FreeBSD with their Level-2 caches off? > > Not "off"; with writeback disabled (pick "write through in BIOS CMOS, > I believe). > >> As I understand it, there are much more profound changes than simply >> one bug fix. I've been told that Triton-II: >> o adds support for concurrent PCI/ISA bus accesses > > Who uses ISA cards? How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good idea to me. >> o adds support for ECC memory > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). By itself? I don't know. If they have ECC, you'd think that they'd allow you to just use the parity bit. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 00:58:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA19138 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:58:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp (uucp@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp [192.47.24.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA19120 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W8-950117-Mail-Gateway) id RAA06051; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:58:27 +0900 Message-Id: <199603060858.RAA06051@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:50:00 +0900 From: "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNFohIVp4GyhC?= " Subject: Help To: hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Question Sheet Dun&Bradstreet Technology Asia Support Team Jun Matsui 1996/03/06 81[Japan]-3-3740-5451 Problem: We are trying to install 'FreeBSD' into our DOS/V machine ( IBM PC/AT compatib le machine ), but the problem below occurs. 1) After installing, we start X-window system by typing command 'startx'. 2) X-windows ( login window and one xterm window) and mouse pointer appear in the monitor. 3) Can type from keyboard but CAN'T move mouse pointer by moving mouse. The mouse can NOT work. Machine environment: Digital Equipment Celebris 90. Mouse connection : Mouse port. Not use COM port. Bios : Phonics Bios. Mouse port Bios set: PS/2 [Enable] IRQ 12 Boot message : mse0 wrong signature ff mse0 not found 0x23c No psm of boot message seen. The DOS/Windows system is also installed in the same machine. In DOS/Windows system,the mouse works correctly. We almost success the installing, so give us some information to solute this p roblem to the below address. If you need more detail information about it, please send what you need to the below address also. Our address is gfd01536@niftyserve.or.jp Sincerely. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 01:36:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA00123 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA29986 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA03960; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:35:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199603060935.BAA03960@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Greg Lehey cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:52:53 +0700." <199603060856.JAA19389@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 01:35:25 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Greg Lehey said: > > Who uses ISA cards? > > How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? > Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good > idea to me. > Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 01:39:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA01028 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01007 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22324 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:39:24 +0100 Message-Id: <199603060939.KAA22324@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:35:58 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603060935.BAA03960@rah.star-gate.com>; from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 06, 96 1:35 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>>> Greg Lehey said: >> > Who uses ISA cards? >> >> How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? >> Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good >> idea to me. >> > > Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. Well, I don't like them either. I was just curious about how many people had got round to running systems with none. I have a Triton on my BSDI box, and once I get the latest X server and a new SCSI controller, I'll be left with just an ISA Ethernet board, but I just can't see any reason to change that. > Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB > Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) > the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( There we go. Looks like ISA is not long for this Earth. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 02:52:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10319 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 02:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10314 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 02:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA14870; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 02:52:33 -0800 (PST) To: "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNFohIVp4GyhC?= " cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:50:00 +0900." <199603060858.RAA06051@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 02:52:32 -0800 Message-ID: <14868.826109552@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Problem: > We are trying to install 'FreeBSD' into our DOS/V machine ( IBM PC/AT compati This should actually go to questions@freebsd.org, just for future reference. > 1) After installing, we start X-window system by typing command 'startx'. > 2) X-windows ( login window and one xterm window) and mouse pointer appear in You have not configured your PS/2 mouse. Please see: http://www.jp.freebsd.org/www.freebsd.org/FAQ/freebsd-faq.html And look under section 2.7. Thank you. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 03:15:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12269 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 03:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12260 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 03:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA16950; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:05:13 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:26:41 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:28:21 +0000 To: Jerry Kendall From: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Subject: Re: SAMBA and WFW Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 2:35 pm 5/3/96, Jerry Kendall wrote: >I have been trying for about 3 weeks now to get WFW 3.11 to access my >samba drives.... > >Can some nice sole send me their smb.conf files...... Sounds fishy to me :-) >All I need at the moment is the ability to have WFW access my >/home filesystem.... Nothing more... > >Please include all commands that are needed to start it up.. In case >I am missing something . Here's the setup that works for me: In /etc/services (can't remember whether I had to add these): netbios-ns 137/tcp # NETBIOS Name Service netbios-ns 137/udp netbios-dgm 138/tcp # NETBIOS Datagram Service netbios-dgm 138/udp netbios-ssn 139/tcp # NETBIOS session service netbios-ssn 139/udp In /etc/inetd.conf: netbios-ssn stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/samba/smbd smbd -d1 netbios-ns dgram udp wait root /usr/local/samba/nmbd nmbd -d1 -G WORKGROUP Make the obvious change if your workgroup isn't called WORKGROUP. And my smb.conf: seagoon:rb > cat /usr/local/samba/lib/smb.conf [global] printing = bsd printcap name = /etc/printcap load printers = yes guest account = daemon [printers] comment = All Printers browseable = no printable = yes public = yes writable = no create mode = 0700 [homes] guest ok = no read only = no [fs7] comment = seagoon:/fs7 path = /fs7 ; public = yes writable = yes printable = no [cdrom] comment = seagoon:/cdrom path = /cdrom public = yes writable = no printable = no seagoon:rb > This gives access to all configured (in /etc/printcap) printers, home directories, and /fs7 [password required] and /cdrom [no password required] explicitly. If you just want homes, I think you only need the [global] and [homes] sections. At the WFW end, you must be running TCP/IP (which doesn't come as standard but is freely available). Also, I believe you have to have the LMHOSTS file set up (I usually populate both HOSTS and LMHOSTS because I can never remember which does what). -- Bob Bishop (01734) 774017 international code +44 1734 rb@gid.co.uk fax (01734) 894254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 04:13:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA15623 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA15616 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA15188 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:13:16 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 04:13:16 -0800 Message-ID: <15186.826114396@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. As much as we generally dislike "taking positions" like that, I think we're only hurting ourselves at this point by hiding our light under a bushel, and the Linux advocates have never pulled their own punches here. It's time to blow our own trumpets a bit! We deserve it. In order to do this right (in some place in our WEB pages, I guess), we need to start collecting references to benchmark results, user testimonials and other "bullet point lists" of FreeBSD's principle strengths. If someone wants to take the point position on this, I'd also be very appreciative - I don't have as much time for these kinds of activities as I'd like. I'm also happy to offer a FreeBSD CD subscription as a bribe, if it'll help! :-) The resulting comparison should ideally be no more than a netscape-sized page long, and written in HTML. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 04:27:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA16732 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:27:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA16727 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01394; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:25:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603061225.HAA01394@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: Greg Lehey cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 10:35:58 +0700." <199603060939.KAA22324@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 07:25:24 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >>>> Greg Lehey said: > >> > Who uses ISA cards? > >> > >> How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? > >> Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good > >> idea to me. > >> > > > > Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. > > Well, I don't like them either. I was just curious about how many > people had got round to running systems with none. I have a Triton on > my BSDI box, and once I get the latest X server and a new SCSI > controller, I'll be left with just an ISA Ethernet board, but I just > can't see any reason to change that. > > > Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB > > Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) > > the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( I'm in the same boat here too. The only thing on the ISA bus is the GUS sound board; 3 of 4 PCI slots have ethernet, video and SCSI controllers in therem. PCI is better plug-n-plan than ISA P-n-P is.. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 04:48:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18058 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18052 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.2/8.7.2) with ESMTP id NAA26845; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:48:45 +0100 Received: (dot@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA03024; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:48:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:48:23 +0100 (MET) From: Magnus Enbom To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dell Dimension Problem -> Quantum Fireball Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Marc Ramirez wrote: > I found out the following: > > on-board IDE known-working IDE > +------------------------------------- > Fireball | no work no work > Old 80MB sucker | work work > > Therefore, I conclude that the Quantum FIREBALL 1080AT does not work with > FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE. Strange... > > Anybody know about this? Is anyone else using a FIREBALL 1080AT? I have installed two 2.1.0-RELEASE systems with IDE-fireballs , both works fine. /dot From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 04:59:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18627 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:59:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua (rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua [193.124.62.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA18613 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 04:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by rd.zgik.zaporizhzhe.ua id AA03103 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:57:46 +0200 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:57:42 +0200 (UKR) From: Yury Pshenychny To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Bug in serial line IP implementation Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! 2.1.0R and, AFAIK, -current slip implementation buggy. Slip discipline ioctl SLIOCSUNIT not work properly. Code from 2.1.0R: (file /sys/net/if_sl.c, lines 371-373) case SLIOCSUNIT: sc->sc_if.if_unit = *(u_int *)data; break; This code is dangerous. This code change unit number of current slip interface. There absolutely no warranty, but if you running slattach -S 1 you may have two or more interfaces named sl1 in system. Some times this hangs all net-related activity, some times not. Any suggestions? Do not respond with 'not use slattach -S' please, fixed unit feature in slip implementation still important for me. -- Yura From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 05:51:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA20927 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 05:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA20920 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 05:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA09082; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id IAA22378; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:51:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:51:32 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-Reply-To: <199603060056.RAA25844@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > > o adds support for ECC memory > > > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). > > ECC memory is parity memory. I thought ECC meant "Error Correcting Code", like a Hamming code. It really means parity? > > > > Nate > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 05:56:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA21178 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 05:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA21173 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 05:56:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20481-1>; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:07:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:56:02 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603052057.MAA07914@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar6.090716est.20481-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > I guess the dominating factor here is what does the systems programmer > feel most confortable or if he has any peers that are running the > same OS which he can benefit from their experiences. I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the hackers/questions mailing lists???? If that is'nt 'peers that are running the same OS which he can benefit from their experiences'. I don't know what is... I have tried BSDI(I work with it), NetBSD(I work with that too), FreeBSD(at home and I work with it), and have worked with others such as AIX, Solaris(Also have that at home), and SCO. Don't forget Coherent. Of all the above(including Linux, yuk! yuk!) I feel FreeBSD is the best for ME... I would NOT impose this upon others because their needs are most likely to be different than mine... Just my $0.02 worth here... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 06:30:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA23586 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 06:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA23537 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 06:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04245; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:16:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199603061416.PAA04245@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Linux ELF newsflash !!! To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:16:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: peter@freebsd.org From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Its come so far, I've run the first (ever) Linux ELF binary on my -current system: (sos@CatFish)[63]> pwd /usr/home/sos/import/ELF-linux/bin (sos@CatFish)[64]> file ls ls: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (sos@CatFish)[62]> ./ls ELF PT_PHDR section <8000034> ELF PT_INTERP section ELF PT_LOAD section .text <08000000,00007000> entry=08000d10 ELF PT_LOAD section bss size 6988 (1b4c) .data <08007000,00002000> ELF PT_DYNAMIC section ?? ELF(file) PT_LOAD section .text <10000000,00005000> entry=10000930 ELF(file) PT_LOAD section bss size 2232 (8b8) .data <10005000,00001000> ELF(file) PT_DYNAMIC section LINUX FIXUP chgrp cp dircolors ln mkdir mv touch chmod dd du ls mkfifo rm chown df ed ls.core mknod rmdir (sos@CatFish)[64]> And FreeBSD native ELF bins works out of the box... So know you know, (and NO quake doesn't run yet...) back to hacking.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 07:00:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA25554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA25501 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA24572; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:56:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:56:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <15186.826114396@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sounds fine to me, but I think we should make an effort to be absolutely fair and to show some integrity. All numbers should be verified with 2 or more people, and pointers to the results should be maintained. If we get a rep for playing fast and loose with the facts then we have a problem. If we get a rep for being honest and being willing to give linux its due (and it does have its good points) then we get to be an honest broker. ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 07:17:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26766 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nightflight.com (nightflight.com [206.153.163.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26761 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from DTIHOST.datatrek.com (gcrutcher.datatrek.com [204.33.82.254]) by nightflight.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA22312; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:23:58 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960306152135.00684040@nightflight.com> X-Sender: gcrutchr@nightflight.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 07:21:35 -0800 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Gary Crutcher Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Having originally purchased and installed BSDI, it is really a no-brainer to install. Just answer the questions, and you are basically up and running. The caveat for me was this: sgl user license $ 995 16 user license 1995 (this may be 64 user license, don't remember) unlimited 2995 For an individual, or small business on a budget. This can be an issue. I also installed Linux, and did not like it. So...when I came across FreeBSD, I installed it, tried, and liked it very much. Other than minor gliches, it has worked flawlessly for me for over 6 months. One thing I did do BEFORE I PURCHASED ANY OF THE ABOVE OSes: Check hardware compaitbility for these products. Looking back, I still would have made the same decision. The only product I have found that would not work under FreeBSD is the EXCITE Search engine, and this is because they packed the BSDI version of perl in it and the makefile extracts it and uses it, which causes a coredump. Other than that, my Web site is working like a charm. The $39.95 I paid for the FreeBSD CD-ROMs have been well worth the money. I have suggested FreeBSD to others who have asked me about low-cost, high quality UNIX software for Web sites. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Gary At 04:13 AM 3/6/96 -0800, you wrote: >So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating >systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. > >As much as we generally dislike "taking positions" like that, I think >we're only hurting ourselves at this point by hiding our light under a >bushel, and the Linux advocates have never pulled their own punches >here. It's time to blow our own trumpets a bit! We deserve it. > >In order to do this right (in some place in our WEB pages, I guess), >we need to start collecting references to benchmark results, user >testimonials and other "bullet point lists" of FreeBSD's principle >strengths. > >If someone wants to take the point position on this, I'd also be very >appreciative - I don't have as much time for these kinds of activities >as I'd like. I'm also happy to offer a FreeBSD CD subscription as a >bribe, if it'll help! :-) > >The resulting comparison should ideally be no more than a >netscape-sized page long, and written in HTML. > >Thanks! > > Jordan > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Crutcher E-mail: gcrutchr@nightflight.com Webmaster URL: http://www.nightflight.com Voice: 619-631-0666 ------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 07:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26982 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26971 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:20:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA22625; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:19:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199603061519.IAA22625@rover.village.org> To: "Ron G. Minnich" Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:56:09 EST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 08:19:55 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : Sounds fine to me, but I think we should make an effort to be absolutely : fair and to show some integrity. All numbers should be verified with : 2 or more people, and pointers to the results should be maintained. If we : get a rep for playing fast and loose with the facts then we have a : problem. If we get a rep for being honest and being willing to give linux : its due (and it does have its good points) then we get to be an honest : broker. Yes. I agree. We should also pick stable versions of Linux. Right now the 1.3.x series is going through a rough patch. We should likely compare 1.4.x to 2.1-stable. Later, we can compare 1.5.x to 2.2. Also, which distribution of Linux becomes a problem... Things that FreeBSD is good at, relative to older linuxes (and maybe current ones): *LARGE* numbers of FTP users *HUGE* routing tables *INSANE* HTTP performance Linux seems to be a little better at context switch time and low low level things like that, but doesn't scale well. That would be a good selling point. Just some thoughts. I know that the Linux folks are doing work in the performance areas as we speak... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 07:41:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28583 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28577 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA27247; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:43:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:43:57 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603061543.IAA27247@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Denis DeLaRoca 825-4580 (310) , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: notebooks and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199603060630.WAA02818@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199603060630.WAA02818@rah.star-gate.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone have a good pointer for pcmia video grabbers and of > > course a point to how to program the pcimia grabber. Unless you get programming device from the manufacturer, you won't be able to program a grabber, but all the code for the PCMCIA stuff already exists in the current drivers. > But more basic, does FreeBSD run fine now on some of the latest SVGA > notebooks with sound support and CD-ROMs... Sound yes, CD-ROMS maybe. My NEC Versa P has an Ensonic Sound System on-board which runs in SB emulation under FreeBSD. If you can get the sound-drivers to work on a Sound-Blaster and/or get support for the ESS the new NECS will work. The built-in CD should work whenever we get generic EIDE support working on FreeBSD, but so far that's been hit and miss. > I understood that FreeBSD > wasn't quite yet up to speed in regards PCMCIA and sleep/resume support. I'm working on that now. > I'd be quite happy if I could merely use the MBONE tools in "receive" > mode... I think so. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 07:42:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28696 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28689 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01428; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:44:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:44:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199603061544.KAA01428@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Yes, but it's still somewhat unclear. Perhaps by the end of summer, >though this could be moved ahead if we decide to punt on goals like >devfs and PCCARD support. > > Jordan > >> The subject says it. Is there a goal for release? >> >> Mostyn Lewis Jordan, Would it be possible to keep a .tgz image of sys/src for the releases and the snaps on the ftp site? It would be much easier to upgrade a system this way, particularly for those that need a feature occasionally but do not want to run -current (Not a bad idea for -current either). Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 08:10:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00615 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA00589 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA26366 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:09:54 +0100 Message-Id: <199603061609.RAA26366@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:06:28 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <96Mar6.090716est.20481-1@janus.border.com>; from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 6, 96 8:56 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > >> I guess the dominating factor here is what does the systems programmer >> feel most confortable or if he has any peers that are running the >> same OS which he can benefit from their experiences. > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > hackers/questions mailing lists???? I'm not too sure I understand what you're saying here. If you're saying "maybe we should take this off the hackers list", I suppose we might find that's a good idea. For the moment, I'm assuming there's a certain interest. > If that is'nt 'peers that are running the same OS which he can benefit > from their experiences'. I don't know what is... > > I have tried BSDI(I work with it), NetBSD(I work with that too), > FreeBSD(at home and I work with it), and have worked with others such as > AIX, Solaris(Also have that at home), and SCO. Don't forget Coherent. > > Of all the above(including Linux, yuk! yuk!) I feel FreeBSD is the best > for ME... I would NOT impose this upon others because their needs are most > likely to be different than mine... I think that if your statement is to be of interest, you need to say why. In my case, I have used most of the systems you mention. I (still just barely) prefer BSD/OS, though I'm constantly revising my viewpoint. 4 years ago, there wasn't a competition. 18 months ago, I was astounded how good FreeBSD had become. Now I'm very impressed. I think BSDI should be scared, but instead they're pricing themselves out of our reaches. My reasons for BSDI: mainly stability and a more rounded system. As I say, that's changing. I don't know nearly enough about NetBSD to venture an opinion, but those of you who speak German should read Martin Cracauer's web pages about his personal choice between FreeBSD and NetBSD. The URL is http://www.leo.org/pub/comp/os/bsd/cracauer/. He speaks a few home truths, a few out-of-datisms and a few personal opinions which I do not share. He comes to the conclusion that he prefers NetBSD. Before you go flaming him, read the article. It's well put. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 08:21:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01419 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01398 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20487-1>; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:31:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:20:44 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603061609.RAA26372@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar6.113158est.20487-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What was I saying?????? Well, There are a lot of users off FreeBSD on these lists. If some person needs help, he/she just askes for it and will get all the info they need... the is what I ment by the first statement. The second statement simply states that I use FreeBSD as my OS of choice.... Although I have used the other that were mentioned. That's all On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > >> I guess the dominating factor here is what does the systems programmer > >> feel most confortable or if he has any peers that are running the > >> same OS which he can benefit from their experiences. > > > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > > hackers/questions mailing lists???? > > I'm not too sure I understand what you're saying here. If you're > saying "maybe we should take this off the hackers list", I suppose we > might find that's a good idea. For the moment, I'm assuming there's a > certain interest. > > > If that is'nt 'peers that are running the same OS which he can benefit > > from their experiences'. I don't know what is... > > > > I have tried BSDI(I work with it), NetBSD(I work with that too), > > FreeBSD(at home and I work with it), and have worked with others such as > > AIX, Solaris(Also have that at home), and SCO. Don't forget Coherent. > > > > Of all the above(including Linux, yuk! yuk!) I feel FreeBSD is the best > > for ME... I would NOT impose this upon others because their needs are most > > likely to be different than mine... > > I think that if your statement is to be of interest, you need to say > why. > > In my case, I have used most of the systems you mention. I (still > just barely) prefer BSD/OS, though I'm constantly revising my > viewpoint. 4 years ago, there wasn't a competition. 18 months ago, I > was astounded how good FreeBSD had become. Now I'm very impressed. I > think BSDI should be scared, but instead they're pricing themselves > out of our reaches. My reasons for BSDI: mainly stability and a more > rounded system. As I say, that's changing. > > I don't know nearly enough about NetBSD to venture an opinion, but > those of you who speak German should read Martin Cracauer's web pages > about his personal choice between FreeBSD and NetBSD. The URL is > http://www.leo.org/pub/comp/os/bsd/cracauer/. He speaks a few home > truths, a few out-of-datisms and a few personal opinions which I do > not share. He comes to the conclusion that he prefers NetBSD. Before > you go flaming him, read the article. It's well put. > > Greg > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:04:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04881 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04876 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:04:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03280; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:35:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:35:01 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <199603061519.IAA22625@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying around my office, I may take that and do said experiment on my own workstation. Collecting this sort of comparison is what we need. Comparing 'nearly-the-same' computer just doesn't cut it--too much is left open for debate. -Brandon Gillespie- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:10:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA05352 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05341 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01549; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:12:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:12:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199603061712.MAA01549@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Beukema From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >1. Both are good, mature systems and work well. >2. If you can get up and running on FreeBSD great. The more you know, the >more reasons to go FreeBSD. >3. BSDI supposedly has telephone support but it will not do you much good >in this time zone. >4. the FreeBSD support groups are friendly, helpful and the >documentation is getting better all the time. There are a lot of ISPs >running FreeBSD. >5. Be careful with both systems that you get compatible equipment but >FreeBSD has more drivers. Read the equipment FAQs >6. $995 is without source code. It is very handy to have source code >when a problem arises and you cannot understand what is happening. >7. BSDI comes with more systems configured but all of the ISP packages >are available as packages (self installing) or ports (nearly so). You missed one of the most important ones. With FreeBSD, you can tune your generic kernel to match your devices...with BSD/OS you have to match your devices to their generic kernel to boot initially. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:21:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06065 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06053 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01570; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:23:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:23:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199603061723.MAA01570@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Greg Lehey From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Julian Elischer writes... >> >>> >>> jkh writes... >>> >>>> Evaluate them both and see what you think. >>>> >>> My personal idea woudl be, "As FreeBSD is Free, you lose nothing by trying >>> it out, and if you don't like it you can then pay for BSDI. Most of what you >>> learned on FreeBSD will be relevant for FeeBSD^H^H^H^H^H^H BSDI. >> >> Only the code is free. The installation costs money. The use of the serial >> line while your trying it costs money. The time it takes to learn how to >> set up and go through the unavoidable setup problems costs money. >> The cost of time exceeds the cost of the software by a factor of 10 for >> BSDI. Its very expensive to chose the wrong product even if its free >> initially. > >Well, I understand your statements individually, and I agree with most >of them (not, a priori, with the ten-to-1 relationship between time >and money--how did you calculate that?), but I don't understand what >you're trying to say. Does this relate specifically to F[r]eeBSD? It relates to any decision. If you waste 2 weeks evaluating something that you could have reasonably decided wasn't what you wanted then the opportunity cost is 2 weeks of productivity with the right product. A top engineer's time and a T1 line to play with and other resources could easily cost over $5000.. If its your time and you'd just be watching TV otherwise then it doesnt cost that much. the fact that the product is "free" is not a selling point. If you can't be reasonably sure that its "as good" or "better" that something else then $500. to $1000. is irrelevant. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:30:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06647 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06635 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11194; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:24:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061724.KAA11194@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:24:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603060935.BAA03960@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 01:35:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Who uses ISA cards? > > > > How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? > > Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good > > idea to me. > > > > Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. > > Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB > Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) > the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( Sounds like you need to contact Advanced Gravis for a PCI version. A PCI version could share a single interupt for all devices on the card... tempting, isn't it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:35:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07038 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07031 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:35:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA05529; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:31:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199603061731.JAA05529@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jerry Kendall cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 08:56:02 EST." <96Mar6.090716est.20481-1@janus.border.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:31:47 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Jerry Kendall said: > > On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > I guess the dominating factor here is what does the systems programmer > > feel most confortable or if he has any peers that are running the > > same OS which he can benefit from their experiences. > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > hackers/questions mailing lists???? > ISPs are a little different than most of us . I have seen enough weird posted from ISPs that a typical single user installation does not run into . Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 09:48:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA08243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08238 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:48:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11313; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:45:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061745.KAA11313@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: mikebo@tellabs.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:45:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, mikebo@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603052144.PAA02531@sunc210.tellabs.com> from "mikebo@tellabs.com" at Mar 5, 96 03:44:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > FreeBSD supports the Triton chipset. Since the difference between the > > I and II is the cache bug is fixed in the II, I can't see where fixing > > a bug could make it not run. > > As I understand it, there are much more profound changes than simply > one bug fix. I've been told that Triton-II: > o fixes a write-back cache bug > o nominally speeds all memory accesses ~5% > o adds support for concurrent PCI/ISA bus accesses > o adds support for multi-processing > o adds support for ECC memory > > Seems like a *lot* more functionality than can be accounted for by a > simple bug fix, no? Perhaps Terry means Triton-II implements a superset > of Triton-I functionality (plus the cache bug fix) so there's no reason > existing kernel code would break? That's great... I thought perhaps > there was more purpose to the chipset sensing code in > /usr/src/sys/pci/pcisupport.c . If I add a bell to a bicycle, I don't have to relearn how to ride it. A better analogy would be the FIFO'ed floppy controllers: the driver doesn't use the FIFO, but that doesn't mean the driver doesn't work. Or VGA cards for standard resoloutions. I don't think there will be a problem. The *one* potential area for trouble is if the chip ID is different and is used to gate behaviour, in which case, you will need to dup a line in the PCI bus interface data and rebuild a kernel. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:01:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09160 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09152 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuNWu-0004IcC; Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:01 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:01:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <15186.826114396@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating > systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. > > As much as we generally dislike "taking positions" like that, I think > we're only hurting ourselves at this point by hiding our light under a > bushel, and the Linux advocates have never pulled their own punches > here. It's time to blow our own trumpets a bit! We deserve it. > > [snip] > > Jordan WTG, Jordan! You tend to be one of the most conservative of the bunch, in terms of being "most unlike a Linux fanatic", so it's good that you're taking a stand that we should toot our own horn once in a while or nobody will listen. Also, I agree we need to come up with positive testimonials and benchmarks for FreeBSD, rather than just bashing Linux, as Linux users tend to bash DOS/Windows. It's the week before finals at my university, but sometime next week, when I have time, I'd love to help on this project! Here are some results we should point to: 1) The Stanford comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris which showed FreeBSD had twice the networking performance (TCP, UDP, and NFS). Does anyone remember the URL (it was posted here before)? Other benchmark results, conducting in a scientific manner (as the Stanford study was) would be great, especially related to networking performance (where we have the biggest advantage). 2) We should not be afraid to make a Web page comparing features of FreeBSD and Linux. We should give it the "test of fire" by posting the URL to comp.os.linux.advocacy and see if anyone can find problems with it or give advantages of Linux vs. FreeBSD which we should post as well to make the table more objective. 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: "Powered by: FFFFFF BBBBB SSSS DDDDDD F eee eee B B S D D FFF rrrr eeeee eeeee BBBBB SSSS D D F r e e B B S D D F r eeee eee BBBBB SSSSS DDDDDD 2.1.0-RELEASE 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." 4) We should not be afraid to capitalize on Linux's name by calling ourselves "a better Linux than Linux" or "a better Unix than Linux". People will understand what FreeBSD is much better if they have heard about Linux before, and we can relate ourselves to that. 5) Print advertisement! I can't emphasize this enough. I was looking through an issue of Byte magazine, and near the back, I saw a small ad touting the benefits of "WGS Linux Pro". How good of an operating system it was, how you could learn about Linux, how half of all new ISP's used Linux (tis a shame, really :-( ), and how at $69, this CD set was such a bargain. Anyway, a few pages later was Walnut Creek's ad, and FreeBSD was just a two line description among other Walnut Creek CDROMs. The description itself wasn't too catchy, simply saying something like "FreeBSD: a rock solid version of BSD UNIX". Nothing about how much better it is than NT or Linux, nothing about using it as an Internet server! Walnut Creek should run ads specifically for FreeBSD, touting the same advantages as the Linux crowd does, perhaps with a line at the bottom "We have hundreds of other CD-ROMs available, check our Web page for a listing". 6) IRC support! I know this last one sounds silly, but I notice that there are always people in the #linux channel of IRC, and somebody suitably motivated (maybe myself, when my finals are over) can start manning the #FreeBSD channel, perhaps with the help of a "BSDBot". Lots of people go to IRC for instant technical support (that don't want to wait for mail or USENET), we could do the same. Anyway, I'll try to work on this some more when I have time, and get some preliminary Web pages, or maybe more suggestions. Again, let me emphasize that you are echoing the sentiments I've been feeling 100%. If we want to survive, we have to start SELLING our product, not taking the "If we build it, they will come" philosophy. ---Jake (who promises to give up on NT once he has time to install the latest 2.2-SNAP on his new SCSI hard drive this weekend :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:16:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10304 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10298 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA32574; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:11:56 +1100 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:11:56 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603061811.FAA32574@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> > Who uses ISA cards? >>> >>> How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? >>> Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good >>> idea to me. >>> >> >> Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. >Well, I don't like them either. I was just curious about how many >people had got round to running systems with none. I have a Triton on I have one system with no ISA cards. However, the on-board i/o is mostly as slow as ISA: Times in usec for inb() from selected ports on ASUS P55TP4XE: min av max speed important for FreeBSD? ----- ----- ----- ---------------------------- 0x21 (pic0 mask) .448 .449 .451 yes 0x40 (timer counter 0) .702 .703 .705 yes (2.1), no (current) 0x43 (timer mode) 1.180 1.180 1.182 yes (2.1), no (current) 0x1f4 (fdc0 status) 1.180 1.180 1.182 no (< other fd slowness) 0x3f8 (sio0 data) 1.180 1.180 1.182 only if you use sio a lot Also, the on-board i/o (UMC8669F) is very buggy. The fdc interrupts at the wrong time (this at best causes busy waiting followed by timeouts to recover under FreeBSD) and the 16550 compatibles aren't (they lose sync when the speed is set or the fifo is changed while data is arriving. The problem is most noticeable for uccp because it does a lot of tcsetattr()s and tcsetattr() sets the speed even when it hasn't changed). The on-board i/o will have to be replaced by an ISA card unless/until acceptable workarounds are found :-(. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:21:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10798 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10791 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuNpn-0004IYC; Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:21 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:21:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Warner Losh cc: "Ron G. Minnich" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <199603061519.IAA22625@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > Yes. I agree. We should also pick stable versions of Linux. Right > now the 1.3.x series is going through a rough patch. We should likely > compare 1.4.x to 2.1-stable. Later, we can compare 1.5.x to 2.2. > Also, which distribution of Linux becomes a problem... We could compare 1.3.x with -current, perhaps emphasizing that even our "experimental" version is just as stable as Linux's experimental kernels. Plus, we can emphasize that our entire distribution tree is integrated, not just the kernel, so components are regression-tested with each other, not in isolation. As for which distribution of Linux, maybe we should use Slackware since it seems to be very popular and is the version that Walnut Creek offers, but again, we can emphasize our SINGLE distribution as another advantage of FreeBSD! > Things that FreeBSD is good at, relative to older linuxes (and maybe > current ones): > *LARGE* numbers of FTP users > *HUGE* routing tables > *INSANE* HTTP performance The recent Stanford benchmark showed that FreeBSD had twice the networking performance (on TCP, UDP, and NFS benchmarks) as Linux! This was comparing 2.0.5-RELEASE to 1.2.x Linux. I've noticed FreeBSD consistently gives me 15% better PPP performance (over 28.8kbps modem, using ijppp) than Linux (both 1.2.x and 1.3.x). > Linux seems to be a little better at context switch time and low low > level things like that, but doesn't scale well. That would be a good > selling point. ext2fs is also supposed to be better for small metadata updates, such as a news server or compiling would use. And Linux is better at context switching as you mentioned, but the 1.2.x kernel really bogs down once you have more than 20 or 30 processes (it uses a linear search). 1.3.x fixes this, but again, the results are in the Stanford study (that I forget the URL to at the moment, damn!) > Just some thoughts. I know that the Linux folks are doing work in the > performance areas as we speak... In addition to performance, we have the following advantages, which I will list briefly: 1) Ports/packages collection (whoohoo!) 2) Conformant to an accepted Unix standard: 4.4BSD 3) Single build tree for kernel and utilities, rather than kernel and EVERY SINGLE core utility or library being separate .tar.gz's on Sunsite!!! 4) Can install over FTP from a SINGLE floppy (no boot/root fiasco) 5) Can have multiple slices in a single FDISK partition 6) Runs BSDI software (like Netscape Commerce Server) 7) Runs Linux software (soon to be ELF?) 8) "Open" development, unlike many Linux distributions (like Slackware) controlled by a single person (who often doesn't respond to e-mail bug reports, I can say from experience!) 9) System administration VERY similar to BSDI and NetBSD, and even SunOS (because of #2). 10) The core team is professional and places an emphasis on stability and good software engineering techniques (I'm not trying to be flattering, it is true!) To be fair, here are some advantages of Linux: 1) More users means more device driver support. 2) More users means more documentation (books at Egghead, etc..) and more press coverage (although, as Microsoft demonstrates time and again, better press coverage does not a good product indicate!) 3) For the novice, Slackware will interactively describe each package and ask whether or not you want it. This could get tiresome with FreeBSD with over 350 packages, but I must admit, I did learn about some cool Unix programs installing Linux in this way. Similarly, when configuring the kernel, it interactively asks questions, which I find extremely annoying, but it might help novice users a little bit. 4) Runs SVGAlib for people that don't have the RAM for X and want to play with graphics (like DOOM). 5) Has other nifty console features like gpm (for console cut-and-paste with mouse). Okay, this can be the foundation of a table comparing FreeBSD and Linux. I said in my last message I was pretty busy, but if you send me e-mail with more FreeBSD likes/dislikes and FreeBSD/Linux comparisons, I will volunteer to type it up into a Web page (most likely with hypertext links for further information), which should be ready for use on www.freebsd.org in a few weeks. Thanks! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:33:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11690 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11683 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:33:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199603061833.KAA11683@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:33:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 6, 96 09:35:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install > FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), > and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get > comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying > around my office, I may take that and do said experiment on my own > workstation. Collecting this sort of comparison is what we need. > Comparing 'nearly-the-same' computer just doesn't cut it--too much is left > open for debate. > I agree, all of the Linux/FreeBSD benchmarks that I have posted have been on the same hardware. I have a Linux partition always bootable, with a spare partition that can be EXT2FS or FFS at will. I am not unbiased however, but that is how I make sure that FreeBSD is not falling behind in the areas that I work on. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:33:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11717 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11684 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA01662; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:33:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:33:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199603061833.NAA01662@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating >systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. > >As much as we generally dislike "taking positions" like that, I think >we're only hurting ourselves at this point by hiding our light under a >bushel, and the Linux advocates have never pulled their own punches >here. It's time to blow our own trumpets a bit! We deserve it. > >In order to do this right (in some place in our WEB pages, I guess), >we need to start collecting references to benchmark results, user >testimonials and other "bullet point lists" of FreeBSD's principle >strengths. > >If someone wants to take the point position on this, I'd also be very >appreciative - I don't have as much time for these kinds of activities >as I'd like. I'm also happy to offer a FreeBSD CD subscription as a >bribe, if it'll help! :-) > >The resulting comparison should ideally be no more than a >netscape-sized page long, and written in HTML. Please include BSDI in this matrix and I'd gladly put a pointer on our site. I personally think that user testimonials are BS and have little or negative impact. Most LINUX users think its the greatest thing ever devised. An opinion that you disagree with can sway you in the opposite direction. Stick to the facts. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 10:38:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12202 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12197 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA01675; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:39:52 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:39:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199603061839.NAA01675@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ron G. Minnich" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ron says... >Sounds fine to me, but I think we should make an effort to be absolutely >fair and to show some integrity. All numbers should be verified with >2 or more people, and pointers to the results should be maintained. If we >get a rep for playing fast and loose with the facts then we have a >problem. If we get a rep for being honest and being willing to give linux >its due (and it does have its good points) then we get to be an honest >broker. Its very difficult to be objective with benchmarks because they are so highly dependent on a particular piece of hardware or driver. For example whenever someone mentions FreeBSD vs BSDI some banana pulls out a benchmark with dual buslogic EISA adapters where BSDI may be superior, when the same test with an Adaptec PCI controller might be completely the opposite. Its almost impossible to have a single benchmark comparison for unix systems. You need to chose several "reasonable" systems with different hardware and show several benchmarks with each..... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:10:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14511 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14506 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA11506; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:06:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061906.MAA11506@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:06:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603060939.KAA22324@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 6, 96 10:35:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> > Who uses ISA cards? > >> > >> How many people have really 0 ISA boards in their machine? > >> Considering that ISA places such a load on the bus, it seems a good > >> idea to me. > >> > > > > Oh, don't pay attention to Terry's complete dislike for ISA cards. > > Well, I don't like them either. I was just curious about how many > people had got round to running systems with none. I have a Triton on > my BSDI box, and once I get the latest X server and a new SCSI > controller, I'll be left with just an ISA Ethernet board, but I just > can't see any reason to change that. I have two machines with no ISA cards, one EISA/ISA and one PCI/ISA. Other than the idiotic EISA inability to probe the amount of per slot configuration memory, and the annoying fact that one has to run DOS to run the pukey EISA configuration utility, both are happily ISA free and fully capable of non-invasive software probing for all devices. 8-). > > Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB > > Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) > > the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( > > There we go. Looks like ISA is not long for this Earth. Amancio said 'Darn' because he's sad to see it go. He must be a machine configuration consultant on the side. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:11:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14582 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:11:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14561 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA26910; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:07:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:07:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <199603061519.IAA22625@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > *LARGE* numbers of FTP users > *HUGE* routing tables > *INSANE* HTTP performance I have a weakness in that I like real numbers. Can we quantify this? ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:15:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14910 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14905 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:15:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA11528; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:11:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061911.MAA11528@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:11:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603060056.RAA25844@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Mar 5, 96 05:56:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > o adds support for ECC memory > > > > Still no parity, eh? 8-). > > ECC memory is parity memory. By the sorcerous "law of similarity"? 8-). Then parity must be ECC... 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:17:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15029 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15024 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA11548; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:14:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061914.MAA11548@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:14:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <363.826068972@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 5, 96 03:36:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, but it's still somewhat unclear. Perhaps by the end of summer, > though this could be moved ahead if we decide to punt on goals like > devfs and PCCARD support. > > Jordan > > > The subject says it. Is there a goal for release? > > > > Mostyn Lewis Uh, what exactly would 2.2 have, then, if none of the planned major features made it in? Something like that should be called 2.1.1, not 2.2.0, IMO... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:20:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15263 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15258 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA11561; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:15:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603061915.MAA11561@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:15:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 5, 96 02:34:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's still broken, exhibits the same behaviour as a 2.1-release box, > where it has problems with the active file. > > It would be nice if this would eventually get fixed, even if just for > correctness sake, as opposed to any measurable performance increase. Could you provide a stand-alone regression test set of behaviour with documented expected behaviour and exception lists? It would be nice if we could set up a TET or ETET framework for regression/validation and automate this process. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:24:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15541 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15532 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA16316; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:21:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:21:39 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Greg Lehey cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , "Hackers; FreeBSD" Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-Reply-To: <199603060939.KAA22324@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Well, I don't like them either. I was just curious about how many > people had got round to running systems with none. Most of our servers here have PCI SCSI, video and Ethernet. Serial and parallel ports are integral to the motherboard. The ISA slots are empty. Our news server contains a PCI Ethernet card and three PCI SCSI controllers. An ISA Mach32 graphics card is used to drive the monitor. At home, everything is PCI except my GUS MAX. A motherboard with, say, 7 PCI slots and one ISA slot would be perfect for my eneds. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:40:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17060 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17055 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id MAA08686 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:30:38 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199603061930.MAA08686@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: man page hacking To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:30:38 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings! I'm trying to repair some existing and create some new man pages. But the macros are pretty much alphabet soup! Can someone point me to a description of those used in man pages? Mightn't this want to be stashed away (handbook?) for future reference? Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:44:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17369 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA17363 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id LAA26818; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:44:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNFohIVp4GyhC?= cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help In-Reply-To: <199603060858.RAA06051@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Boot message : mse0 wrong signature ff > mse0 not found 0x23c > > No psm of boot message seen. Okay, mse0 is not the ps/2 mouse driver. mse0 is the serial port driver. To install the psm0 driver for ps/2 port mice, add the following lines to your kernel config file: device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts ttys irq 12 vector psmintr == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:45:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17446 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA17435 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id LAA26832; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:45:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <15186.826114396@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > as I'd like. I'm also happy to offer a FreeBSD CD subscription as a > bribe, if it'll help! :-) > Jordan I'm there if you are :) I need a subscription, hehe. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:48:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17827 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17807 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA23000; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:51:16 +0200 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:51:16 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install > FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), > and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get > comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying > around my office, I may take that and do said experiment on my own > workstation. Collecting this sort of comparison is what we need. > Comparing 'nearly-the-same' computer just doesn't cut it--too much is left > open for debate. OK we will get a new server (P5-133 with 64MB EDO, PCI AHA2940, 2*Fujitsu 2GB 7200rpm, DEC 21040 based Ethernet PCI card) machine somewhen round the weekend, so I could run the benchmarks while I set it up - so: 1) Where shall I find the Linux thing? And how shall I install it? (It might seem funny, but presently it is a FreeBSD related question) 2) Where shall I get the benchmark programs? For FreeBSD from one of the mirrors of ftp.freebsd.org, but for Linux? Any other suggestions as for the benchmarking? And most importantly - how much time is this all going to take? > > -Brandon Gillespie- > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:49:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17963 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hidrogenio ([200.246.206.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17953 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:49:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:49:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603061949.LAA17953@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from litio (litio.widesoft.com.br) by hidrogenio ; 6 MAR 96 17:52:30 X-Sender: wsj@200.246.206.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: wsj@widesoft.com.br (Waldemar Scudeller Jr.) Subject: Cyclades Board Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, sends a prompt, call /usr/bin/login , as usual. Login shows the password prompt, but ignore everthing from terminal to server, without drop the connection. If I write something directly to device while connected, the data goes to terminal screen. I have tested getty: it send the login prompt and ignore everthing from terminal. I verify the stty flags, cables, etc., all looks good to me. Can anyone help me on that? Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------------- Waldemar Scudeller Jr. wsj@widesoft.com.br Widesoft Sistemas Ltda. Limeira/SP - Brasil F. +55 194 51 9047 -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 11:52:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18308 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18302 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA29412; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:53:44 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 11:53:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 In-Reply-To: <199603061915.MAA11561@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Unfortunately I don't. All I know is that MMAP and INN work fine on several other OS's, and fail miserably under any version of FreeBSD through the 3/4 -current. While it's certainly possible that it's a defect in INN, I would be skeptical. Trivial uses of MMAP work fine. This concerns me for another reason in that we're planning on making heavy use of MSQL for processing our accounting records for our RADIUS stuff, and MSQL can use MMAP, but now I can't be sure the the implementation and thus the results of the queries is reliable. However, in the interests of narrowing it down a bit, it only seems to be problematic when a newgroup message is processed and the active file changes size as opposed to just content changing w/o size changing. Maybe it's a locking problem of some kind, I don't know, all I know is that it doesn't work, John sent me mail a couple months ago telling that he thought it worked in -current, and I'm reporting back that it still doesn't work. On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > It's still broken, exhibits the same behaviour as a 2.1-release box, > > where it has problems with the active file. > > > > It would be nice if this would eventually get fixed, even if just for > > correctness sake, as opposed to any measurable performance increase. > > Could you provide a stand-alone regression test set of behaviour > with documented expected behaviour and exception lists? > > It would be nice if we could set up a TET or ETET framework for > regression/validation and automate this process. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 12:13:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20456 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20450 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA06055 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:13:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603062013.NAA06055@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:48:40 PST." <199603061748.JAA08261@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 13:13:40 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >You missed one of the most important ones. With FreeBSD, you can >tune your generic kernel to match your devices...with BSD/OS you have >to match your devices to their generic kernel to boot initially. > >Dennis >- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com This isn't true (and hasn't been since before 2.0): you can change I/O ports, IRQ's, which drivers are enabled, DMA settings, etc... from the Boot: command line before the generic kernel is loaded. And you don't need DOS to do it. Before the flames fly: I'm also interested in FreeBSD and feel its a good system in many respects. I'm not posting this on behalf of BSDI, just as someone who uses it (obviously) all the time. - -Eric Varsanyi Speaking for himself, not BSDI -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMT3x8zxFdSMFRIw5AQGQOQP/aBXyJkXj5fYjZC7ihWxsmvlPct15FEto 372+hmn1V5DMg51EkYWY7qAIcVgx8Y3pD7OF1oGB54a5apHoJBIKq/g/TYhZzmji rIGtBNMpi9QSf1rbZcthT7phsBHyLyTzLJg/DzFsyw5Fk3843eFS5msIAthIFG0q I435XumaPVA= =/64x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 12:38:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22142 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22117 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.4/8.7.4) id PAA21988; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:37:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:37:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problems installing 2.1.0-RELEASE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... Realizing that this is probably the *simplest* thing to do, or at least should be, I can't get a hard drive to install. The hard drive is an *old* Fujitsu drive (5.25", date '89 on one of the "papers" that is on the drive) I can use fdisk to create the FreeBSD slice, and then label the partitions I want, but when it goes to format it, it states that /dev/rsd0a doesn't exist When the label editor created the partitions, it created them as sd0s1a So, what I'm assuming, is that one of the procedures is creating /dev/[r]sd0s1a, while the other is looking for /dev/rsd0a I ftp'd into the archive to confirm that the boot disk I am using is the newest one that is available for 2.1.0-RELEASE, and it is, so the only next step is to try out 2.2-SNAP and see if that helps any... ...but, its also the same diskette I've used several times for installing my existing machines, which is what I'm finding confusing... Any ideas on what I've overlooked? How to fix this? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 13:23:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25823 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (gatekeeper2.mcimail.com [192.147.45.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25812 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA10234; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:26:03 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id ej13432; 6 Mar 96 21:23 WET Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 16:20 EST From: "MCI Mail X.400 Service" To: hackers Subject: Message Status Message-Id: <73960306212037/POSTMASTERD49X4@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk DELIVERY NOTICE Referencing: Message id: 63960306205836/0003765414DC2EM Subject: hackers-digest V Your Message To: C=IN A=VSNL P=XEEMAIL O=XEEDEL OU1=XEENET S=vivekp could not be delivered to this recipient. Reason: Unable to transfer. Diagnostic: IPM expired. This non-delivery notice generated: WED MAR 06, 1996 9:20 pm GMT From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 13:42:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28008 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28001 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuQy5-0004I8C; Wed, 6 Mar 96 13:41 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:41:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install > FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), > and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get > comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying > around my office, I may take that and do said experiment on my own > workstation. Collecting this sort of comparison is what we need. > Comparing 'nearly-the-same' computer just doesn't cut it--too much is left > open for debate. > > -Brandon Gillespie- Good idea! What kind of benchmarks should we tell people to run, though? I hear bonnie is pretty good for network benchmarking. Perhaps BYTE magazine's Unix benchmarks would be good, although last time I couldn't get them to work under Linux because it depends on behavior of the shell and utilities such as /bin/time that is neither BSD nor System V. Any others? --Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 13:45:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28193 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net ([204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28187 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00220; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:46:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: clobbered by longjmp? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In tracking down why I'm getting alarm() sent to my process several times, rather than just once, I fired up gcc -Wall, which reports that one of my arguments "might be clobbered by longjmp or vfork'. I am guessing that this means the argument maybe needs to be declared as volatile, but heck if I know. Any tips? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 13:47:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28332 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28318 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:47:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA07776; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:40:49 +1100 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:40:49 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603062140.IAA07776@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, dyson@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install >> FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), >> and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get >> comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying >> ... >I agree, all of the Linux/FreeBSD benchmarks that I have posted have been on >the same hardware. I have a Linux partition always bootable, with >a spare partition that can be EXT2FS or FFS at will. I am not unbiased This is fine if you know how to interpret the benchmarks, but for an unbiased report the following are required: - SAME partitions. The outer tracks are usually faster. - SAME level of tuning. Benchark the release versions and spend a few few days learning the quirks of the install programs to make sure that you're testing vanilla versions, or benchmark tuned versions and spend a few months learning how to fine tune them similarly. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:06:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29537 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29515 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01997; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199603062206.RAA01997@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Alexey Pialkin From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Sounds fine to me, but I think we should make an effort to be absolutely >> >fair and to show some integrity. All numbers should be verified with >> >2 or more people, and pointers to the results should be maintained. If we >> >get a rep for playing fast and loose with the facts then we have a >> >problem. If we get a rep for being honest and being willing to give linux >> >its due (and it does have its good points) then we get to be an honest >> >broker. >> >> Its very difficult to be objective with benchmarks because they are so >> highly dependent on a particular piece of hardware or driver. For example >> whenever someone mentions FreeBSD vs BSDI some banana pulls >> out a benchmark with dual buslogic EISA adapters where BSDI may >> be superior, when the same test with an Adaptec PCI controller >> might be completely the opposite. Its almost impossible to have a >> single benchmark comparison for unix systems. You need to chose >> several "reasonable" systems with different hardware and show several >> benchmarks with each..... > >Why ? Are you sure ? >Let's take some system(some P5/16mb/1Gb ... and so on :) and make some >tests on it.. For example - compiling,news processing,ftp,www.... >We'll install Linux & FreeBS on the same system, so i think compasion will >be rather objective. >Any problem ? then things that you selected aren't the issue. But if you do network testing with a card that has a particularly bad LINUX driver and a very good FreeBSD driver, then the test is only valid for that one particular card. The Linux people could do the same test with a very good Linux driver and a buggy FreeBSD driver and get opposite results. So what have you shown? For example BSDI with an Adaptec SCSI and an NE2000 card is not a very good system, but with a buslogic VLB or EISA card (they've done a lot of work with these cards) and an SMC ethernet they're very good. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:10:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29853 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29848 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00361; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:11:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:11:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 3/3/snap install problem. (minor). Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I grabbed the 3/3 snap to install on a box, and everything worked pretty good, except time-zone selection failed for some reason, and the screen flashed so fast I couldn't see it. Nor did I see anything on Alt-F2. However, it was not a fresh install, the box already had an older -current on it, so it may have been a problem there. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:25:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01272 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (gatekeeper2.mcimail.com [192.147.45.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01220 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA03422; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:27:29 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id dt26757; 6 Mar 96 22:24 WET Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:18 EST From: "MCI Mail X.400 Service" To: hackers Subject: Message Status Message-Id: <54960306221845/POSTMASTERD49X4@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk DELIVERY NOTICE Referencing: Message id: 83960306205838/0003765414DC4EM Subject: hackers-digest V Your Message To: C=IN A=VSNL P=XEEMAIL O=XEEDEL OU1=XEENET S=vivekp could not be delivered to this recipient. Reason: Unable to transfer. Diagnostic: IPM expired. This non-delivery notice generated: WED MAR 06, 1996 10:18 pm GMT From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:31:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02382 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:31:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02359 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA16537; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:31:27 -0800 (PST) To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:56:09 EST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 14:31:26 -0800 Message-ID: <16535.826151486@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Sounds fine to me, but I think we should make an effort to be absolutely > fair and to show some integrity. All numbers should be verified with > 2 or more people, and pointers to the results should be maintained. If we > get a rep for playing fast and loose with the facts then we have a > problem. If we get a rep for being honest and being willing to give linux > its due (and it does have its good points) then we get to be an honest > broker. Absolutely. My only point was that we should not let our exaggerated sense of fairness stop us from doing a little comparative marketing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:36:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA03330 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA03310 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603062236.OAA03310@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Dell Dimension Problem -> Quantum Fireball Problem To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:36:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc Ramirez" at Mar 5, 96 10:52:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Marc Ramirez wrote: > Therefore, I conclude that the Quantum FIREBALL 1080AT does not work with > FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE. Strange... > > Anybody know about this? Is anyone else using a FIREBALL 1080AT? i have a fireball 1080A (NO T) wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xff00ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , multi-block-8 wd0: 1039MB (2128896 sectors), 2112 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S works as well as any ide disk could. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:45:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04726 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04713 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA16588; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:44:46 -0800 (PST) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 10:44:15 EST." <199603061544.KAA01428@etinc.com> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 14:44:46 -0800 Message-ID: <16586.826152286@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Would it be possible to keep a .tgz image of sys/src for the > releases and the snaps on > the ftp site? It would be much easier to upgrade a system this way, > particularly for those that Uh, I suppose.. Does anyone else feel that this is important enough for me to make it a checklist item on my build procedures? Since config also changes frequently, src/sys often isn't all you need, so I kind of think it'd be better to advise anyone wishing to stay up to date to simply grab the src dist. Since the ftpd on wcarchive supports `get .tar.gz', it's not that hard to grab it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:52:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05734 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05728 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603062252.OAA05728@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:52:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar6.090716est.20481-1@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 6, 96 08:56:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jerry Kendall wrote: > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > hackers/questions mailing lists???? 631 freebsd-hackers 579 freebsd-questions From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 14:59:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05969 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05964 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA23780; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:58:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199603062258.PAA23780@rover.village.org> To: "Ron G. Minnich" Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 14:07:52 EST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:58:46 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : > *LARGE* numbers of FTP users : > *HUGE* routing tables : > *INSANE* HTTP performance : : I have a weakness in that I like real numbers. Can we quantify this? : Yes, but it would take the resources of someone less humble in networking capabilities than myself to do it. I'd like to see what network perforamnce is when, say 1000 routes are in your routing table. How long does it take for 1000 users to connect and get different 1M files (or one of 100 1M files), etc. These sorts of load testing is generally beyond the means of many people, but I think it is an area where FreeBSD would shine. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:02:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06256 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA22420; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:59:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:59:15 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have a strange problem here I can't figure out. One of our shell servers started giving "Out of pty's" messages on an incoming rlogin. The kernel is configured for 256 pty's and [pt]ty[pqrsPQRS]* have been created in /dev. Upon inspection with the 'pstat -t' command, I noticed that the range of tty's used was tty[pq][0-9a-v] and tty[rs][0-9a-f]. That is, for tty's above minor number 63 (in the tty[rs] range), only the first 16 were being used. That means 32 tty's are not used. However, our other shell server *doesn't* show this behaviour. 'pstat -t' shows a continuous block of allocated ttys from ttyp0 to ttysa. I've attached the output of pstat on both machines below. I double-checked the kernel, /etc/ttys, /dev/[pt]ty*, rlogind and telnetd. All are identical between the two servers. Permissions and device numbers of the ttys look okay to me (there aren't any telling differences between /dev/ttyrf and /dev/ttyrg, for instance). screen-3.6.2 has been compiled to use the upper 128 ptys (which is why you see ttyP's in the output). Any clues? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" zip% pstat -t # this server works properly 2 sio lines LINE RAW CAN OUT HWT LWT COL STATE SESS PGID DISC 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 256 pty lines LINE RAW CAN OUT HWT LWT COL STATE SESS PGID DISC ttyp0 0 0 0 2052 256 2 OCc 2ce8d00 22226 term ttyp1 0 0 0 1296 256 1670 OCc 2948a80 19869 term ttyp2 0 0 0 2052 256 22 OCc 2cdda40 21313 term ttyp3 0 0 0 1296 256 10 OCc 2692fc0 3896 term ttyp4 0 0 0 1296 256 27323 OCc 272dd60 18985 term ttyp5 0 0 0 1296 256 0 OCc 2787fe0 20687 term ttyp6 1 0 0 2052 256 661723 OCc 2f8a8e0 21480 term ttyp7 0 0 0 2052 256 0 OCc 2742e60 21729 term ttyp8 0 0 0 1296 256 1796 - 0 0 term ttyp9 0 0 0 1296 256 2 OCc 3150e20 9580 term ttypa 0 0 0 1296 256 2 OCc 2cb6f60 20461 term ttypb 0 0 0 2052 256 55 OCc 2a7b0c0 21853 term ttypc 0 0 1029 2052 256 27376 OCcA 2f977e0 21170 term ttypd 0 0 0 1296 256 1603 OCc 2fa4100 19120 term ttype 0 0 0 2052 256 1833 OCc 2dfa620 21321 term ttypf 0 0 0 1296 256 0 OCc 2948c00 21559 term ttypg 0 0 0 1296 256 4 OCc 2d37fc0 19044 term ttyph 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttypi 0 0 0 1296 256 2 OCc 29a8a40 21887 term ttypj 0 0 0 2052 256 191150 OCc 29284e0 20920 term ttypk 0 0 0 1296 256 2269 OCc 2bd4280 20698 term ttypl 0 0 0 2052 256 16860 OCc 3150480 21901 term ttypm 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttypn 0 0 0 1296 256 102 Cc 0 0 term ttypo 0 0 0 2052 256 20295 - 0 0 term ttypp 0 0 0 2052 256 3 OCc 2eca140 21252 term ttypq 0 0 0 1296 256 126 OCc 2da5740 12450 term ttypr 0 0 0 2052 256 21 OCc 2c23ec0 21395 term ttyps 0 0 0 1296 256 24 OCc 2c3a620 21400 term ttypt 0 0 0 2052 256 170071 OCc 3188860 21510 term ttypu 0 0 0 1296 256 2223 OCc 2c429c0 21499 term ttypv 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyq0 0 0 0 1296 256 378 OCc 2ce3780 21662 term ttyq1 0 0 0 2052 256 32695 OCc 27d8b00 21790 term ttyq2 0 0 0 2052 256 50655 OCc 2be3280 21831 term ttyq3 0 0 0 2052 256 5086 - 0 0 term ttyq4 0 0 0 2052 256 66013 OCc 280d540 21863 term ttyq5 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyq6 0 0 0 2052 256 2902 OCc 28b7080 22070 term ttyq7 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyq8 0 0 0 1296 256 20 OCc 31b4600 15106 term ttyq9 0 0 0 1296 256 14 - 0 0 term ttyqa 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyqb 0 0 0 1296 256 37 OCc 2c82fa0 6036 term ttyqc 0 0 0 2052 256 9 - 0 0 term ttyqd 0 0 0 1296 256 1654 - 0 0 term ttyqe 0 0 0 1296 256 11 - 0 0 term ttyqf 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqg 0 0 0 1296 256 31 OCc 264f1a0 9325 term ttyqh 0 0 0 2052 256 173569 - 0 0 term ttyqi 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqj 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqk 0 0 0 2052 256 95260 - 0 0 term ttyql 0 0 0 2052 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyqm 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqn 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqo 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqp 0 0 0 1296 256 15 - 0 0 term ttyqq 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyqr 0 0 0 2052 256 4 OCc 28b71c0 14039 term ttyqs 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqt 0 0 0 1296 256 164662 - 0 0 term ttyqu 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyqv 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyr0 0 0 0 2052 256 1618 - 0 0 term ttyr1 0 0 0 2052 256 5 - 0 0 term ttyr2 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyr3 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyr4 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyr5 0 0 0 2052 256 1577 - 0 0 term ttyr6 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyr7 0 0 0 2052 256 9284 - 0 0 term ttyr8 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyr9 0 0 0 1296 256 5283 - 0 0 term ttyra 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyrb 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrc 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrd 0 0 0 2052 256 272 - 0 0 term ttyre 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrf 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrg 0 0 0 1296 256 1323 - 0 0 term ttyrh 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyri 0 0 0 1296 256 7 - 0 0 term ttyrj 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrk 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrl 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrm 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrn 0 0 0 432 120 0 - 0 0 term ttyro 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrp 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrq 0 0 0 1296 256 19426 - 0 0 term ttyrr 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrs 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrt 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyru 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyrv 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys0 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys1 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys2 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys3 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys4 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys5 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys6 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys7 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttys8 0 0 0 1296 256 7 - 0 0 term ttys9 0 0 0 1296 256 1288 - 0 0 term ttysa 0 0 0 2052 256 16236 - 0 0 term 107 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 108 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 109 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 110 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 111 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 112 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 113 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 114 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 116 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 117 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 118 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 119 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 120 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 121 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 122 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 123 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 124 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 125 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 126 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 127 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term ttyP0 0 0 0 1296 256 2052432 OCc 266c3a0 290 term ttyP1 0 0 0 1296 256 13 OCc 2af4c00 28499 term ttyP2 0 0 0 1296 256 6 OCc 2fa43a0 11440 term ttyP3 0 0 0 1296 256 26 OCc 30f9f20 23208 term ttyP4 0 0 0 1296 256 13011 OCc 31b8360 13826 term ttyP5 0 0 0 1296 256 715 OCc 2d32360 3861 term ttyP6 0 0 0 1296 256 18 OCc 2f87060 16583 term ttyP7 0 0 0 1296 256 2450823 OCc 2692580 301 term ttyP8 0 0 0 1296 256 21 OCc 277db00 5414 term ttyP9 0 0 0 1296 256 57 OCc 2cf6f60 17017 term ttyPa 0 0 0 1296 256 2045 OCc 2faac40 498 term ttyPb 0 0 0 1296 256 29 OCc 3232f00 19028 term ttyPc 0 0 0 2052 256 513233 OCc 31a83e0 11868 term ttyPd 0 0 0 1296 256 342123 OCc 29287a0 27819 term ttyPe 0 0 0 1296 256 93 OCc 2d3b9e0 4339 term ttyPf 0 0 0 2052 256 0 OCc 2cf4240 21731 term ttyPg 0 0 0 1296 256 28653 OCc 27428e0 14690 term ttyPh 0 0 0 2052 256 1018 OCc 2ddb380 21732 term ttyPi 0 0 0 2052 256 2 OCc 28cc7a0 21733 term ttyPj 0 0 0 1296 256 646 - 0 0 term ttyPk 0 0 0 1296 256 5964 - 0 0 term ttyPl 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyPm 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyPn 0 0 0 1296 256 73 - 0 0 term ttyPo 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPp 0 0 0 1296 256 67 - 0 0 term ttyPq 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPr 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPs 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPt 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPu 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyPv 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ0 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ1 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ2 0 0 0 1296 256 2 - 0 0 term ttyQ3 0 0 0 1296 256 14 - 0 0 term ttyQ4 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ5 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ6 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ7 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyQ8 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term 169 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 170 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 171 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 172 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 173 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 174 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 175 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 176 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 177 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 178 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 179 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 180 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 181 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 182 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 183 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 184 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 185 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 186 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 187 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 188 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 189 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 190 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 191 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 192 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 193 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 194 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 195 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 196 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 197 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 198 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 199 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 200 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 201 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 202 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 203 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 204 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 205 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 206 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 207 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 208 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 209 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 210 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 211 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 212 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 213 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 214 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 215 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 216 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 217 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 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0 0 term zap% pstat -t # this one doesn't 2 sio lines LINE RAW CAN OUT HWT LWT COL STATE SESS PGID DISC 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 256 pty lines LINE RAW CAN OUT HWT LWT COL STATE SESS PGID DISC ttyp0 0 0 0 2052 256 258 OCc 27cbb20 7480 term ttyp1 0 0 0 2052 256 37 OCc 28f4740 13017 term ttyp2 0 0 0 2052 256 18538 OCc 2e84f80 12817 term ttyp3 0 0 0 2052 256 57 OCc 2c24cc0 10418 term ttyp4 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 0 0 term ttyp5 0 0 0 2052 256 116 OCc 26a7720 28986 term ttyp6 0 0 0 2052 256 4 OCc 2b94760 18438 term ttyp7 0 0 0 2052 256 27 OCc 2c99020 12810 term ttyp8 0 0 0 2052 256 14716 OCc 2e889c0 29903 term ttyp9 0 0 0 1296 256 32 OCc 27d7fe0 27724 term ttypa 0 0 0 2052 256 0 OCc 2e48d40 9004 term ttypb 0 0 0 2052 256 22535 OCc 2696300 25327 term ttypc 0 0 0 2052 256 215 OCc 2c27500 10979 term ttypd 0 0 0 2052 256 0 - 0 0 term ttype 0 0 0 2052 256 1598 - 0 0 term ttypf 0 0 0 1296 256 27977 OCc 275c7e0 5454 term ttypg 0 0 0 2052 256 42970 OCc 2bb27e0 20642 term ttyph 0 0 0 1296 256 59 OCc 2eb74e0 5806 term ttypi 0 0 0 1296 256 0 OCc 2e20340 6820 term ttypj 0 0 0 1296 256 7 OCc 28c6d20 22312 term ttypk 0 0 0 1296 256 0 OCc 2bdecc0 12850 term ttypl 0 0 0 1296 256 21 OCc 2e88740 8390 term ttypm 0 0 0 1296 256 2 OCc 267cc80 12216 term ttypn 0 0 0 1296 256 28015 OCc 2c1c840 22330 term ttypo 0 0 0 1296 256 21045 OCc 2e2cf40 10624 term ttypp 0 0 0 1296 256 18138 OCc 29bc640 12345 term ttypq 0 0 0 1296 256 101714 OCc 2c35b00 22378 term ttypr 0 0 0 1296 256 2 OCc 2bf68e0 11229 term ttyps 0 0 0 1296 256 0 - 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0 0 term 254 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term 255 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 term From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:04:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06707 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06656 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12032; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:59:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603062259.PAA12032@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:59:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Mar 6, 96 02:21:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > A motherboard with, say, 7 PCI slots and one ISA slot would be > perfect for my eneds. The limit is based on the chipset; it is 3 or 4 slots, based on the current draw. For 7 slots you would need a PCI-PCI bridge. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:06:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA07344 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07221 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA22839; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:03:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:03:29 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Terry Lambert cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-Reply-To: <199603062259.PAA12032@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > The limit is based on the chipset; it is 3 or 4 slots, based on the > current draw. For 7 slots you would need a PCI-PCI bridge. The top-end ASUS Pentium Pro motherboard uses a bridge to achieve this, as does the PowerMac 9500. Neither will take the current design of Pentium processors, however. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:08:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA07579 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07558 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23798; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:02:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199603062302.QAA23798@rover.village.org> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: Alexey Pialkin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:06:27 EST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 16:02:11 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : then things that you selected aren't the issue. But if you do network : testing with a card that has a particularly bad LINUX driver and a : very good FreeBSD driver, then the test is only valid for that one : particular card. The Linux people could do the same test with a : very good Linux driver and a buggy FreeBSD driver and get : opposite results. So what have you shown? I think that any networking tests should be averaged over at least 10 cards to make it a fair test. Don't forget to include the 100MB ethernets, since those tend to show differences in speeds of IP bettern than the 10M ethernets do. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:10:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08037 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA07990 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA12727; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:08:50 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603062308.RAA12727@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:08:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 6, 96 02:07:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I have a weakness in that I like real numbers. Can we quantify this? > > ron > > *LARGE* numbers of FTP users 1250 (wcarchive.cdrom.com) > > *HUGE* routing tables one of my poor little 8MB border routers got 14K routes installed before crying: mycogen# netstat -rn | wc 14154 84909 976437 mycogen# vmstat -m Memory statistics by type Type Kern Type InUse MemUse HighUse Limit Requests Limit Limit Size(s) routetbl 28370 3989K 3989K 3989K 43954 0 0 16,32,64,128,256 I expect that adding more memory (i.e. raising "Limit") would have allowed me to merrily add a couple zillion more routes, or at least enough to do real world stuff :-) > > *INSANE* HTTP performance dunno. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:11:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08353 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08347 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00760; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:13:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:13:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anything wrong with ftp.freebsd.org? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Slower than molasses it seems, and I'm not too many hops away on a 10% loaded T1. Lots of timeouts and such. Anybody else seeing the same problem? Heck, simple cd's to pub/XFree86 are taking a minute or two. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08515 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08510 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12290; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:14:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:47:30 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems Corporation From: (Mark J. Taylor) To: jgreco@ns.sol.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Proper FreeBSD news machine Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Joe, hackers- We've recently gotten a full T1 link to the Internet, and along with it, a news feed. I have the T1 and news feed on a 486 DX2/66 machine, with 2 SCSI tape drives and 4 SCSI disks (all on one Adaptec 1542B controller), with 16 Mb RAM and 100 Mb of swap. I was wondering about the slow performance of innd-1.4 wrt getting the news artices- it gets about 1 article per second. This makes it kinda lag behind- it'll never get all the articles at this rate. (I'm receiving receiving ~5000 of the possible 16k+ newsgroups, and I will subscribe to more when I get the performance up). What kind of machine should I be using for the news spooler? A) 486DX2/66 fast enough? need a Pentium-133? B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD in for the rest of the news spool) D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? E) newfs- what options for creating spool disks? (-i 1024, etc.) BTW- I've found FreeBSD to be very useful over the last few years. I appreciate the work that has gone into it. Thanks to WC, and all the core team! -Mark Taylor SysAdmin (only when necessary!) mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:15:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08550 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08545 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA16803; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:15:36 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 10:01:35 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:15:36 -0800 Message-ID: <16801.826154136@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1) The Stanford comparison of Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris which showed FreeBSD > had twice the networking performance (TCP, UDP, and NFS). Does anyone Sounds good. The Finnish Center for Supercomputing also did some Linux vs FreeBSD benchmarks, and we out-performed them 3 to 1 on the WEBFORCE benchmark. I forwarded the results of this to core recently and can probably get a URL from the guy who originally forwarded it to me. I'm sure there are others in this vein, if people can help us find them! > 2) We should not be afraid to make a Web page comparing features of > FreeBSD and Linux. We should give it the "test of fire" by posting the Oh, absolutely! That'd be one of the #1 places to put it, IMHO. Warner Losh has also graciously volunteered to take the point position on this, so anything and everything you guys can find, please send to him! Once he's got something, we can all review it here. I also probably didn't really make it clear before that I think that this is a _very important_ project. We need to get more active in our PR here, and folks like me are spread thin enough that we're never going to get anywhere if we don't start doing more grass-roots campaigning, as it were. Losing potential users by failing to give them what they want is one thing, but losing them just because the never even _heard_ of you is a crime! :-( > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when David is working on collecting some stats, and perhaps he'll have some nice gnuplot graphs for us soon.. :-) > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: Uh, let's not get carried away.. :-) I think the existing opening text there is about all we'll get away with. > 5) Print advertisement! I can't emphasize this enough. I was looking Well, WC has only limited funds right now so I don't know if you'll see this go anywhere right away. We'll see. > 6) IRC support! I know this last one sounds silly, but I notice that I actually make a point of dropping in there at least once a day. Any other core team members (or anyone knowledgeable about FreeBSD at all, for that matter!) are welcome to join in. > Anyway, I'll try to work on this some more when I have time, and get some > preliminary Web pages, or maybe more suggestions. Again, let me Great, please help Warner! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:18:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08682 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08677 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA16819; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:17:41 -0800 (PST) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:35:01 MST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:17:41 -0800 Message-ID: <16816.826154261@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install > FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), > and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get I agree, though history also shows (rather clearly) that 99% of the people trying one or the other simply don't do this. People are inherently lazy critters, and only a very small percentage are actually craz^H^H^H^Hdedicated enough to do this kind of benchmarking. We need to spoon-feed them some of the data, and the attitude we've taken up to now that people should think for themselves doesn't really seem to be working.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:20:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08907 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08897 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:20:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA16834; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:18:37 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: mikebo@tellabs.com, mikebo@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 10:45:08 MST." <199603061745.KAA11313@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:18:37 -0800 Message-ID: <16832.826154317@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > If I add a bell to a bicycle, I don't have to relearn how to ride it. You do if it's a church bell! [Sorry, sorry! :-)] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:20:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08980 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08975 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:20:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA12120; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:13:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603062313.QAA12120@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:13:46 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, lehey.pad@sni.de, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Mar 6, 96 06:03:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The limit is based on the chipset; it is 3 or 4 slots, based on the > > current draw. For 7 slots you would need a PCI-PCI bridge. > > The top-end ASUS Pentium Pro motherboard uses a bridge to achieve > this, as does the PowerMac 9500. Neither will take the current design > of Pentium processors, however. And this is a bad thing? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:27:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09341 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09326 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA27011; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:02:38 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603062332.KAA27011@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Triton-II support... when? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:02:38 +1030 (CST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603060935.BAA03960@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 01:35:25 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > Darn, I just figured out that with a Triton II chipset and USB > Universal Serial Bus ( http://www.intel.com/IAL/pccomm/index.htm) > the only thing that I would have on a ISA slot is my GUS PnP :( The reliability of the USB homepage doesn't inspire confidence in their spec. 8) Does anyone have a copy of the 'usb10doc.pdf' file I can snarf via FTP? They only have it on a web page, and I've never managed to get more than half of it before they cut off... > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:36:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09838 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09829 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA16902; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:35:29 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: Warner Losh , "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 10:21:07 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:35:29 -0800 Message-ID: <16900.826155329@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We could compare 1.3.x with -current, perhaps emphasizing that even our > "experimental" version is just as stable as Linux's experimental I think we need to approach this in stages. The first stage is to compare like with like - the latest released slackware or RedHat Linux against the latest FreeBSD release. If we have time left over, we can start benchmarking the experimental branches but bear in mind that this kind of data will have a _very_ low shelf life, and constitute a fair bit of extra work for Warner (or whomever) to keep up to date. > with more FreeBSD likes/dislikes and FreeBSD/Linux comparisons, I will > volunteer to type it up into a Web page (most likely with hypertext links > for further information), which should be ready for use on > www.freebsd.org in a few weeks. Thanks! Hmmmm. Sounds like you've got the bit well between your teeth! :-) Maybe you and Warner could act as co-consipirators on this one, or maybe Warner just wants to stick the hat on you at this point.. :-) Warner? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:36:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09978 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09970 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA06787; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:35:37 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id RAA04112; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:36:44 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603062336.RAA04112@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:36:42 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "mtaylor@cybernet.com" at Mar 6, 96 05:47:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi Joe, hackers- > > We've recently gotten a full T1 link to the Internet, and along with it, > a news feed. I have the T1 and news feed on a 486 DX2/66 machine, with > 2 SCSI tape drives and 4 SCSI disks (all on one Adaptec 1542B controller), > with 16 Mb RAM and 100 Mb of swap. do you mean that you're using the DX2/66 as a router too? > I was wondering about the slow performance of innd-1.4 wrt > getting the news artices- it gets about 1 article per second. This > makes it kinda lag behind- it'll never get all the articles at this > rate. (I'm receiving receiving ~5000 of the possible 16k+ newsgroups, and > I will subscribe to more when I get the performance up). you are correct sir. :-) > What kind of machine should I be using for the news spooler? Let me sketch out my news operation here. I have multiple news peers, very few readers, I retain about a million articles (5 to 7 days retention).. > A) 486DX2/66 fast enough? need a Pentium-133? news.sol.net was a DX4/100 up until yesterday. I upgraded because I got a good deal, not because CPU was much of an issue. I'd say I was running 30-40% idle. That suggests a DX2/66 would be squeaky, though. The box is now a P90 and I notice a slight performance improvement. > B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? No. In particular look at the size of history.pag as a clue to how much RAM you need. My many-years-tried-and-true INN RAM formula is: Memory: 16MB + sizeof(history.pag) * 2MB + numclients * 1MB + numfeeds * 1MB. "clients" are expected simultaneous nnrp's. feeds are outbound feeds, innxmit or nntplink, no matter. sizeof(history.pag) in megabytes. For me this translates into 16MB + 16 * 2MB + 5 * 1MB + 15 * 1MB = 68MB. Here's the reasoning. In order to do history lookups efficiently, INN must retain a complete copy of history.pag incore. Failure to do so is very costly. Now consider expires: expire also needs to be able to simultaneously hold a new history.pag open. If it does not have enough RAM, it will begin to fight for pages with INN, and both your innd and expire processes will slow to a crawl. You also must factor in memory for other running processes (i.e. clients and feeds), and the OS itself needs some RAM (16MB, let's say, for kernel, cache, scratch, etc). > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > in for the rest of the news spool) Go PCI SCSI if you can. Also, the more disks, the merrier (I have 14 but then I'm a performance freak). > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? I've had good luck with the AHA3940 and NCR-810 based cards. The AHA2940 should work well too. > E) newfs- what options for creating spool disks? (-i 1024, etc.) -b 4096 -f 512 -- except for your alt.binaries disk, which I create with default params because it doesn't matter. > I've found FreeBSD to be very useful over the last few years. I > appreciate the work that has gone into it. Thanks to WC, and all > the core team! Me too :-) > -Mark Taylor > SysAdmin (only when necessary!) > mtaylor@cybernet.com Pay close attention to the memory advice. I see so many people try to get by without enough memory. It doesn't pay. I run Exec-PC's news operation and they try to squeeze 150-200 nnrp clients onto a box with 128MB RAM. They complain to me that it "takes forever to connect". I wonder why. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:45:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10606 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10598 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05073; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:44:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:44:44 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <199603062206.RAA01997@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > then things that you selected aren't the issue. But if you do network > testing with a card that has a particularly bad LINUX driver and a > very good FreeBSD driver, then the test is only valid for that one > particular card. The Linux people could do the same test with a > very good Linux driver and a buggy FreeBSD driver and get > opposite results. So what have you shown? > > For example BSDI with an Adaptec SCSI and an NE2000 card is not > a very good system, but with a buslogic VLB or EISA card (they've done > a lot of work with these cards) and an SMC ethernet they're very good. Which is why it is important to list all hardware specifications, and to get a wide variety of benchmark results. Yes, GenericOS-1 may work well with cardx, where GenericOS-2 does not, but if GenericOS-2 works well with 10 different other cards which are more common, then I'd say genericOS-2 has the advantage. The only way to find this is by getting many results. Why don't we come up with a 'form' which is filled out by a person performing a benchmark, which includes everything from I/O cards to seek times on drives (as well as the specific kernel version/config for each OS you benchmark on that hardware). From there, take the information from various benchmarks (such as lmbench) and collect them into a database. We should also get somebody to grab the linux FAQ for easy install instructions.. I can come up with a web page to handle submitting benchmarks if somebody can do something with the information (and if we can come up with a list of generic items to consider in a hardware config (i.e. i/o cards, drive specs, chipsets, etc). -Brandon Gillespie- BTW, brainstorming on specing hardware, have brand, model and other specs for all primary hardware pieces. Those would be ... processor, hard drive (spec the controller with each drive), i/o (other?), network, video, ...? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:53:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11068 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11056 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA12600 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:45 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA22278 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id AAA13225 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:30:42 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603062330.AAA13225@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Problems installing 2.1.0-RELEASE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:30:41 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Mar 6, 96 03:37:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Marc G. Fournier wrote: > I can use fdisk to create the FreeBSD slice, and then label the > partitions I want, but when it goes to format it, it states that > > /dev/rsd0a doesn't exist Hmm, if i take this sentence, it would mean that the _device node_ did magically disappear? > When the label editor created the partitions, it created them as > > sd0s1a > > So, what I'm assuming, is that one of the procedures is creating > /dev/[r]sd0s1a, while the other is looking for /dev/rsd0a They are identical, the latter notation is the ``compatibility slice'', as the boot code will see it. Yours confusingly, -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:55:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11114 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:55:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11109 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA12596 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:43 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA22276 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id AAA13045 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:10:57 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603062310.AAA13045@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:10:56 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603061930.MAA08686@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Mar 6, 96 12:30:38 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > I'm trying to repair some existing and create some new > man pages. But the macros are pretty much alphabet soup! > Can someone point me to a description of those used in man > pages? RTFM :-) j@uriah 227% apropos mdoc mdoc(7) - quick reference guide for the -mdoc macro package mdoc.samples(7) - tutorial sampler for writing manuals with -mdoc -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 15:59:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11530 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11522 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17184; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:56:15 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: Brandon Gillespie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 13:41:46 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:56:14 -0800 Message-ID: <17182.826156574@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Good idea! What kind of benchmarks should we tell people to run, though? I'd say lmbench and the BYTE benchmarks, *if* you can get them to run. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 16:05:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12197 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA12191 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17275; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:04:32 -0800 (PST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 14:52:30 PST." <199603062252.OAA05728@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 16:04:32 -0800 Message-ID: <17273.826157072@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > > hackers/questions mailing lists???? > > 631 freebsd-hackers > 579 freebsd-questions And that's not even "people" per-se, that's the number of *entries* each has. If you scan the list, you'll see that a good number of them are exploders.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 16:30:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14035 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13950 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA00547 ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:27:13 GMT To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:59:15 EST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:27:12 +0000 Message-ID: <545.826158432@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Brian Tao wrote in message ID : > I double-checked the kernel, /etc/ttys, /dev/[pt]ty*, rlogind and > telnetd. All are identical between the two servers. Permissions and > device numbers of the ttys look okay to me (there aren't any telling > differences between /dev/ttyrf and /dev/ttyrg, for instance). Is libutil.so.whatever identical on the two machines? Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 16:47:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15159 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA25576; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:48:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199603070048.QAA25576@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anything wrong with ftp.freebsd.org? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:13:03 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 16:48:04 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Slower than molasses it seems, and I'm not too many hops away on a 10% >loaded T1. Lots of timeouts and such. Anybody else seeing the same problem? > >Heck, simple cd's to pub/XFree86 are taking a minute or two. The Sprint router at MAE-west is down and this is causing all Sprint traffic from wcarchive to go through Sprint's T1 to the CIX. Our traffic is causing Sprint's CIX T1 to melt down with 40%+ packet lossage. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 16:56:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA16871 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.COSC.GOV (root@apollo.COSC.GOV [198.94.103.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA16864 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from vince@localhost) by apollo.COSC.GOV (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA13875; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:56:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:56:29 -0800 (PST) From: -Vince- To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anything wrong with ftp.freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > Slower than molasses it seems, and I'm not too many hops away on a 10% > loaded T1. Lots of timeouts and such. Anybody else seeing the same problem? > > Heck, simple cd's to pub/XFree86 are taking a minute or two. Nope, since we're like an hour from ftp.freebsd.org on a 10 Gig Bps Bay Area Gigabit prototype link using BBNPlanet and I suspect the problem to be MCI.Net which is common... Cheers, -Vince- vince@COSC.GOV - GUS Mailing Lists Admin - http://www.COSC.GOV/~vince UC Berkeley AstroPhysics - Electrical Engineering (Honorary B.S.) Chabot Observatory & Science Center - Board of Advisors Running FreeBSD - Real UN*X for Free! Linda Wong/Vivian Chow/Hacken Lee/Danny Chan/Priscilla Chan Fan Club Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:20:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20231 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuUNj-0004I8C; Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:20 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:20:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <16801.826154136@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Sounds good. The Finnish Center for Supercomputing also did some > Linux vs FreeBSD benchmarks, and we out-performed them 3 to 1 on the > WEBFORCE benchmark. I forwarded the results of this to core recently > and can probably get a URL from the guy who originally forwarded it to > me. I'm sure there are others in this vein, if people can help us find > them! 3 to 1? Wow! I wonder which web server they used (Apache?). Presumably they used the same server software on each machine (I know, let's put NCSA httpd-1.3 on Linux and Apache 1.0 on FreeBSD ;-). Also, it helps that FreeBSD tends to be tuned for Internet use out of the box. An example of this is the parameter SOMAXCONN in /usr/include/sys/socket.h, which specifices the maximum listen queue length. This is 5 in stock BSD, but a busy Web server should have a higher value. FreeBSD-2.1.0 and above set it to 32, a much better value. I read about this tip in the January issue of SunWorld Online, and was pleasantly surprised to see it had ALREADY been implemented in our favorite OS! > I also probably didn't really make it clear before that I think that > this is a _very important_ project. We need to get more active in our > PR here, and folks like me are spread thin enough that we're never > going to get anywhere if we don't start doing more grass-roots > campaigning, as it were. Losing potential users by failing to give > them what they want is one thing, but losing them just because the > never even _heard_ of you is a crime! :-( AGREED! I've been recommending FreeBSD to all of my friends, but I'd like to get involved in PR on a grander scale. I remember when I first installed FreeBSD, if it hadn't been for the curiosity of myself and one of my friends, I wouldn't have taken the "leap of faith" to install it in the first place, rather than sticking with Linux. Interestingly, the sheer power of ftp.cdrom.com was one of the main reasons I thought it could be a cool OS to run! Otherwise, www.freebsd.org is woefully lacking in concrete examples of "If you are using Linux now, here is what you're missing" or "Does it bother you that Linux..." I'm pretty decent at marketing principles, I think that without excessive "negative campaigning" we can take some pretty big shots at the Linux crowd, who will hopefully say, "Yeah, I just got used to that Linux limitation. I didn't know FreeBSD could do that!". Also, the Linux "fanatics" (by that term, I mean the people who regularly post to .advocacy, and shout to the rooftops about their favorite OS), seem to have a full arsenal of "Why Linux is better than DOS/Windows95/whatever" but VERY few "Why Linux is better than FreeBSD". If we come on too strong (i.e. "Linux sucks, FreeBSD rulez"), we may cause these people to say "Oh, well Linux is still better" and blindly ignore us (if you want to see blind fanatical loyalty, go to #amiga on IRC and tell them FreeBSD is better than AmigaDOS :-). If we take a friendly "Welcome Linux users, we want you to try our OS, we think you'll like it" approach, many more people will try it out. I think that a step-by-step "Linux->FreeBSD" transition guide is also called for, because I expect a large percentage of new users will have tried or be currently using Linux. This is _really_ important to our success, and I'll try to work on it along with the other advertisement. In fact, this should probably be a chapter of the FreeBSD Handbook, so I'll type it up in sgml and submit it to John Fieber. > > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when > > David is working on collecting some stats, and perhaps he'll have > some nice gnuplot graphs for us soon.. :-) Cool... Put them on www.cdrom.com! > > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: > > Uh, let's not get carried away.. :-) I think the existing opening text > there is about all we'll get away with. I guess you're right. :-) > > 5) Print advertisement! I can't emphasize this enough. I was looking > > Well, WC has only limited funds right now so I don't know if you'll > see this go anywhere right away. We'll see. What about Web advertisement? Some good places to buy advertising space: Netscape (if you can afford it), SunWorld Online (you can emphasize the similarity to SunOS, and position it as an NT alternative), www.windows95.com (there is already a Linux ad there!!!!), PCN (www.pointcast.com, an excellent free news service which uses a custom Windows client, downloads its information via HTTP, and has small animated advertisements similar to Prodigy, only nicer!) Yahoo (if it's not there already) and other directories and/or search engines. I'm sure there are others I have missed. > > 6) IRC support! I know this last one sounds silly, but I notice that > > I actually make a point of dropping in there at least once a day. Any > other core team members (or anyone knowledgeable about FreeBSD at all, > for that matter!) are welcome to join in. Okay, I will too... > > Anyway, I'll try to work on this some more when I have time, and get some > > preliminary Web pages, or maybe more suggestions. Again, let me > > Great, please help Warner! Will do! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:27:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21124 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21107 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:27:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603070127.RAA21107@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:27:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603061723.MAA01570@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Mar 6, 96 12:23:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > > It relates to any decision. If you waste 2 weeks evaluating something > that you could have reasonably decided wasn't what you wanted then > the opportunity cost is 2 weeks of productivity with the right product. crimmie! am i watching the simpsons here? if you waste $20k buying a ford that "you could have reasonably decided wasn't what you wanted then" your a dorf! doctor, it hurts when i put my foot in my mouth! well, dont put your foot in your mouth! > A top engineer's time and a T1 line to play with and other resources > could easily cost over $5000.. If its your time and you'd just be > watching TV otherwise then it doesnt cost that much. the fact that the > product is "free" is not a selling point. If you can't be reasonably sure > that its "as good" or "better" that something else then $500. to $1000. > is irrelevant. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:29:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA21393 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21376 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuUVk-0004I8C; Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:28 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: <199603061914.MAA11548@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Uh, what exactly would 2.2 have, then, if none of the planned major > features made it in? > > Something like that should be called 2.1.1, not 2.2.0, IMO... At least it would have the improved VM code, Paul's new cool malloc(), better Linux emulation, and a newer ports collection. Even with no other features, this is at least deserving of 2.1.5, if not 2.2.0. Also, remember that -current has been a separate branch of the tree, with many improvements stretching back to six months before 2.1.0-RELEASE! Or we could do like Microsoft and wantonly bump version numbers at will. I know, let's call it FreeBSD 4.0 to keep it in version parity with Windows 95.. ;-) Recent MS examples: Office 95 (all programs were bumped to 7.0, even though Word was 6.0 and Powerpoint was 4.0 formerly), and Visual C++ (which went from 2.2 to 4.0 to keep it in parity with MFC).. The point I'm trying to make is that version numbers are ultimately arbitrary; I think it would be foolish to bump it up to 3.0-RELEASE if we didn't add any major features, but there's nothing stopping us. 2.2-RELEASE sounds perfectly fine. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:32:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA22081 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22066 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuUZL-0004ITC; Wed, 6 Mar 96 17:32 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:32:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Whatever happened to the idea of taking NetBSD's ATAPI CD-ROM driver code instead of the alpha-quality driver that we have now? I'm all for this idea, does any core team member want to take it upon themselves to import the driver code? If you recall, Jordan brought this idea up a month ago, but I haven't heard anything from it yet. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:40:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23697 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23684 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA00351; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:15 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199603062036.UAA00351@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:14 +0000 () Cc: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603062140.IAA07776@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 7, 96 08:40:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >I agree, all of the Linux/FreeBSD benchmarks that I have posted have been on > >the same hardware. I have a Linux partition always bootable, with > >a spare partition that can be EXT2FS or FFS at will. I am not unbiased > > This is fine if you know how to interpret the benchmarks, but for an > unbiased report the following are required: > > - SAME partitions. The outer tracks are usually faster. > - SAME level of tuning. Benchark the release versions and spend a few > few days learning the quirks of the install programs to make sure > that you're testing vanilla versions, or benchmark tuned versions and > spend a few months learning how to fine tune them similarly. > That is what I have done. The goal of my tests has been to find the truth so that I can make sure that FreeBSD is keeping up (and fix it where it isn't.) Sometimes I post results, but public comparison has not been my motivation. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:51:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA25485 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25474 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA00394; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:47:01 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199603062047.UAA00394@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: -current MMAP vs INN 1.4unoff3 To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:47:01 +0000 () Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 6, 96 11:53:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > However, in the interests of narrowing it down a bit, it only seems to be > problematic when a newgroup message is processed and the active file > changes size as opposed to just content changing w/o size changing. > Thanks, that does help. I have been looking at the code, and that appeared to be an "interesting" situation. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 17:57:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26675 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26667 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199603070157.RAA26667@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 17:57:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: jerry@border.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <17273.826157072@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 6, 96 04:04:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > > > hackers/questions mailing lists???? > > > > 631 freebsd-hackers > > 579 freebsd-questions > > And that's not even "people" per-se, that's the number of *entries* > each has. If you scan the list, you'll see that a good number of them > are exploders.. :-) amen, brother, the true number is unknowable. ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 18:01:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27290 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kavemachine.magna.com.au ([203.4.215.219]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27259 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kaveman@localhost) by kavemachine.magna.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA01143; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 +1000 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:10 +1000 (EST) From: Julian Jenkins To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > Unix programs installing Linux in this way. Similarly, when configuring > the kernel, it interactively asks questions, which I find extremely > annoying, but it might help novice users a little bit. I think that this is one of the worst features of Linux. It is most irriatating when you have to make one small change or make a mistake and have to go back to the beginning. I have one friend who moved to FreeBSD, and this was one of the reasons he stated for changing. I would list the FreeBSD method of changing kernel configurations as an advantage, it is not difficult after reading a small amount of documentation. Kaveman kaveman@magna.com.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 18:22:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA01528 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01507 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA08387 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:22:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199603070222.SAA08387@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: P6 and PCI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 18:22:06 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I need to buy a PC soon and was wondering about the current crop of PCI chipsets . I seem to recollect some performance problems with the Orion chipset. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:09:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11743 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11720 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24492; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:08:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199603070308.UAA24492@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: Jake Hamby , "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:35:29 PST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:08:27 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Maybe you and Warner could act as co-consipirators on this one, : or maybe Warner just wants to stick the hat on you at this : point.. :-) Warner? I can go either way. I'll be happy to keep the list up to date and try to coordinate. Especially if someone feeds me data all the time. That will be the hard point. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:11:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA12128 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:11:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12110 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24531; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:11:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199603070311.UAA24531@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:17:41 PST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:11:18 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : We need to spoon-feed them some of the data, and the attitude we've : taken up to now that people should think for themselves doesn't really : seem to be working.. :-) I'll be happy to be the FreeBSD spoon :-) I'd like to come up with a way that all of this can be automated so I can bang out some html, then from time to time slip new numbers in as they become available. Maybe with a historical graph :-) No, that would be silly. Anyway, I think it would be good to have a comparison like this... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:15:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA12745 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12710 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24554; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:14:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199603070314.UAA24554@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:15:36 PST Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:14:46 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : Warner Losh has also graciously volunteered to take : the point position on this, so anything and everything you guys can : find, please send to him! Once he's got something, we can all review : it here. Please do send them to me. I'll cook on it for a couple of days and then show people what I have. Were can I get the webforce numbers? Where can I find the specifics on all of this? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:45:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA17650 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17628 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id UAA27878; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:50:48 -0700 Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA21122; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:45:28 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199603070345.UAA21122@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:45:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603062336.RAA04112@solaria.sol.net> from "Joe Greco" at Mar 6, 96 05:36:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, Joe Greco once said: For comparison: > Let me sketch out my news operation here. I have multiple news peers, very > few readers, I retain about a million articles (5 to 7 days retention).. We have 6 peers, and about the same amount of retention. > good deal, not because CPU was much of an issue. I'd say I was running > 30-40% idle. That suggests a DX2/66 would be squeaky, though. The box is > now a P90 and I notice a slight performance improvement. We're running on a P100 and typically have 90% idle, except during the news.daily run (which admittedly takes about 7 hours or more). > > B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? > > Memory: 16MB + sizeof(history.pag) * 2MB + numclients * 1MB + numfeeds * 1MB. > > "clients" are expected simultaneous nnrp's. feeds are outbound feeds, > innxmit or nntplink, no matter. sizeof(history.pag) in megabytes. It almost sounds like you developed this forumla before the sharedactive patch meandered its way around. I'd have agreed with you before (it would say we needed about 56 megs of ram, and we were actually using about 49 during non-expire times), but the sharedactive patch reduces the memory usage from 1.3M to .3M per client (roughly) on our system. Obviously, the larger your active file, the more benefit you'll achieve from this. On a 64MB machine, we run with about 28 megs used for cache on average. This is with between 5 and 20 clients. > it will begin to fight for pages with INN, and both your innd and expire > processes will slow to a crawl. You also must factor in memory for other > running processes (i.e. clients and feeds), and the OS itself needs some RAM > (16MB, let's say, for kernel, cache, scratch, etc). Quite fair. I think you can squeak by on a bit less than this if you're .. ahh, willing to put up with some burps and slowness, but given that this machine is also going to act as a router -- I agree completely. > > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > > in for the rest of the news spool) > > Go PCI SCSI if you can. Also, the more disks, the merrier (I have 14 but > then I'm a performance freak). As a side note, be sure to keep the history* files on a separate spool from the rest of the world. Do the same with the overfiew files if you keep them. It'll make your life a lot happier. > > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? > > I've had good luck with the AHA3940 and NCR-810 based cards. The AHA2940 > should work well too. It's a good performer, though we have occasional stability problems with it. I think it's more due to one of the drives -- a 9gb micropolis for storing alt.binaries -- than anything else. > Pay close attention to the memory advice. I see so many people try to get > by without enough memory. It doesn't pay. I run Exec-PC's news operation > and they try to squeeze 150-200 nnrp clients onto a box with 128MB RAM. > They complain to me that it "takes forever to connect". I wonder why. ;-) That's masochism for you. :-) -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:52:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19267 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19247 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA28786; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:36:46 +1100 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:36:46 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603070336.OAA28786@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: man page hacking Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to repair some existing and create some new >man pages. But the macros are pretty much alphabet soup! >Can someone point me to a description of those used in man >pages? Mightn't this want to be stashed away (handbook?) >for future reference? man mdoc man mdoc.samples /usr/src/share/misc/m*.template [out of date] Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:58:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA20565 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20550 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gate.gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.6.12) id LAA20925; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:53:57 +0800 (HKT) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:53:56 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603061712.MAA01549@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >6. $995 is without source code. It is very handy to have source code > >when a problem arises and you cannot understand what is happening. > >7. BSDI comes with more systems configured but all of the ISP packages > >are available as packages (self installing) or ports (nearly so). > > You missed one of the most important ones. With FreeBSD, you can > tune your generic kernel to match your devices...with BSD/OS you have > to match your devices to their generic kernel to boot initially. > No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. jbeukema > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 19:58:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA20623 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20541 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 19:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id WAA12684; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:57:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:57:25 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Gary Palmer cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? In-Reply-To: <545.826158432@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Is libutil.so.whatever identical on the two machines? Nope... -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 9357 Jan 25 1995 libutil.so.2.0 <- non-working -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 8742 Dec 21 20:42 libutil.so.2.0 <- working I guess I shouldn't be installing the compat2x.tgz chunk then, since that (I assume) is where the libutil.so.2.0 dated Jan 25 1995 comes from. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:15:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA23498 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23458 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:14:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA01790 ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:14:11 GMT To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 22:57:25 EST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 04:14:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1788.826172050@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Brian Tao wrote in message ID : > Nope... > -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 9357 Jan 25 1995 libutil.so.2.0 <- non-working > -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 8742 Dec 21 20:42 libutil.so.2.0 <- working > I guess I shouldn't be installing the compat2x.tgz chunk then, > since that (I assume) is where the libutil.so.2.0 dated Jan 25 1995 > comes from. Hmm. If that's true, I wonder what on earth libutil is doing in there since it has the same version numbers... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:31:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA26530 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26516 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA18173; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:30:43 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:20:30 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: <18171.826173043@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 3 to 1? Wow! I wonder which web server they used (Apache?). Presumably > they used the same server software on each machine (I know, let's put They used NCSA httpd-1.3 on both machines, identical hardware. > missing" or "Does it bother you that Linux..." I'm pretty decent at > marketing principles, I think that without excessive "negative > campaigning" we can take some pretty big shots at the Linux crowd, who > will hopefully say, "Yeah, I just got used to that Linux limitation. I > didn't know FreeBSD could do that!". Excellent. I am quite interested in seeing what you come up with! :) > I think that a step-by-step "Linux->FreeBSD" transition guide is also > called for, because I expect a large percentage of new users will have > tried or be currently using Linux. This is _really_ important to our Absolutely. This question comes up fairly frequently, actually, and as we're more successful I expect to see it even more frequently.. :-) > In fact, this should probably be a chapter of the FreeBSD Handbook, so > I'll type it up in sgml and submit it to John Fieber. Great! I like your spirit, m'boy! :-) > What about Web advertisement? Some good places to buy advertising space: > Netscape (if you can afford it), SunWorld Online (you can emphasize the > similarity to SunOS, and position it as an NT alternative), We buy Netscape ads now, but bear in mind that what you're buying is a small advertising graphic and not much else. Because Walnut Creek CDROM sells more than just FreeBSD, and as Slackware hosts have to be slightly politic in their own stated biases, this is a pretty vanilla advert though. Nonetheless, I think that www.cdrom.com does some fairly reasonable advertising for us as it is. No "powered by Linux" logo at the bottom of those pages! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:32:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA26945 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26905 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id VAA10210; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:31:58 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199603070431.VAA10210@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:31:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070336.OAA28786@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 7, 96 02:36:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >Can someone point me to a description of those used in man > >pages? Mightn't this want to be stashed away (handbook?) > >for future reference? > > man mdoc > man mdoc.samples > /usr/src/share/misc/m*.template [out of date] Thanx! I had already stumbled upon mdoc.samples after my original post... --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:36:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27605 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27543 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA06326; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:35:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:35:43 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > What about Web advertisement? Some good places to buy advertising space: > Netscape (if you can afford it), SunWorld Online (you can emphasize the > similarity to SunOS, and position it as an NT alternative), > www.windows95.com (there is already a Linux ad there!!!!), PCN > (www.pointcast.com, an excellent free news service which uses a custom > Windows client, downloads its information via HTTP, and has small animated > advertisements similar to Prodigy, only nicer!) Yahoo (if it's not there > already) and other directories and/or search engines. I'm sure there are > others I have missed. WC is restricted in funds, so what if WC were to host a volunteer PR fund pool for FreeBSD? I for one would contribute, and I know my boss probably would get the company to pitch in some (he is rather impressed with it vs Linux). From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27759 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27725 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA18203; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:36:08 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:32:37 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:36:08 -0800 Message-ID: <18201.826173368@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, shortly after this, Serge Vakulenko returned from the dead as it were and said that he'd be happy to continue developing the ATAPI code. He also requested 2 more IDE CDROM drive models for testing, and I'm currently trying to get these purchased and sent on to him. He also indicated that the NetBSD driver wasn't quite the equal of his in that it didn't support audio. This seems a reasonable point, and I'm willing to give him his shot if he's willing to come back and develop the driver some more. Nonetheless, if someone would like to incorporate the NetBSD code as a hedge against future problems, I'm certainly not opposed. It would also greatly increase the chances of convincing a committer to bring it into -current if someone else did the preliminary legwork of integrating it from the slightly different NetBSD device framework. :-) Jordan > Whatever happened to the idea of taking NetBSD's ATAPI CD-ROM driver code > instead of the alpha-quality driver that we have now? I'm all for this > idea, does any core team member want to take it upon themselves to import > the driver code? If you recall, Jordan brought this idea up a month ago, > but I haven't heard anything from it yet. > > ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 20:41:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28605 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from tippy.vnet.net (tippy.vnet.net [166.82.197.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28599 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:41:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tippy.vnet.net (8.7.4/8.6.9) id XAA18760; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:41:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:41:36 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Madison To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: FreeBSD hackers , peter@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux ELF newsflash !!! In-Reply-To: <199603061416.PAA04245@ra.dkuug.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Its come so far, I've run the first (ever) Linux ELF binary on > my -current system: Cool! Does that mean the Linux javac will be running shortly too:-) ================================================================ cmadison@vnet.net | R.I.P TIPPY:'( root@tippy.vnet.net | 6 month remembrance From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 21:08:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00537 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00529 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA18346; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:07:27 -0800 (PST) To: Warner Losh cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:14:46 MST." <199603070314.UAA24554@rover.village.org> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 21:07:26 -0800 Message-ID: <18344.826175246@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Were can I get the webforce numbers? Where can I find the specifics > on all of this? They were sent to me by Bror 'Count' Heinola. I don't have them here anymore, strangely, so perhaps a request to count@key.hole.fi is in order - he can probably also cite the original source. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 21:09:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00721 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00711 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:09:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuXwK-0004I8C; Wed, 6 Mar 96 21:08 PST Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:08:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? In-Reply-To: <18201.826173368@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, shortly after this, Serge Vakulenko returned from the dead as it > were and said that he'd be happy to continue developing the ATAPI > code. He also requested 2 more IDE CDROM drive models for testing, > and I'm currently trying to get these purchased and sent on to him. > > He also indicated that the NetBSD driver wasn't quite the equal of his > in that it didn't support audio. This seems a reasonable point, and > I'm willing to give him his shot if he's willing to come back and > develop the driver some more. Well, that's good! I see three main problems with the ATAPI driver as it stands: 1) Doesn't work with some models. Not Serge's fault, there are just too many almost-ATAPI-compatible variants and combinations of cases (hard drive as master, CD-ROM as slave, CD-ROM as master on secondary controller, CD-ROM as slave on secondary controller, etc..). Getting the driver tested on more drives should increase its reliability in handling unusual circumstances, especially where probing is concerned. 2) Doesn't work on boot floppy. I find it odd that my CD-ROM is perfectly probed when I use my own custom kernel, but not when I boot from "boot.flp" or "atapi.flp". I don't understand how the probing routines can fail simply because of the presence of other drivers, or the fact that the kernel has been loaded from a floppy image. I can work with Serge on getting this problem solved, and I will also try the latest 3/3 snap to see what happens... 3) Doesn't work with Workman CD audio player. Apparently the IOCTLs in the FreeBSD port only work with the SCSI CD-ROM driver. At any rate, I get "length read errors" when I tried it with ATAPI (and I don't think it works with the proprietary controllers either). Ideally, every CD-ROM driver (ATAPI, SCSI, and proprietary) would conform to the same set of IOCTLs, except for CD-DA (downloading the raw digital audio from a music CD), which is only supported by some SCSI drives. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 21:10:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00847 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00833 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA18365; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:09:57 -0800 (PST) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 18:22:06 PST." <199603070222.SAA08387@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 21:09:57 -0800 Message-ID: <18363.826175397@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I need to buy a PC soon and was wondering about the current crop of > PCI chipsets . I seem to recollect some performance problems > with the Orion chipset. If you don't need it right away, the Triton II sounds promising. Otherwise, I'd just get an ASUS Triton MB. I would stay away from the Orion stuff for now simply due to cost - do you really want to pay $1200 for JUST the motherboard? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 21:38:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA03731 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:38:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabal.io.org (cabal.io.org [198.133.36.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03625 Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.4/8.7.4) id AAA12858; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:37:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Gary Palmer cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? In-Reply-To: <1788.826172050@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Hmm. If that's true, I wonder what on earth libutil is doing in there > since it has the same version numbers... libutil isn't the only one that has more than one incarnation with the same filename. I think most if not all of the library files in compat20.tgz are also present in updated form in the bindist, but with the same version number. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 21:39:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA03940 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:39:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03926 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from donna (cmh-p098.infinet.com [206.103.242.104]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA26416 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:34:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <313E7677.23477815@cylatech.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:39:03 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: direct access to video card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have a question, how can I access the video card directly? I'm trying to implement a 2d/3d primitive library, and I don't want to have to use X for it. -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 22:09:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA07255 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07247 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:09:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18612; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:09:17 -0800 (PST) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 21:35:43 MST." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 22:09:17 -0800 Message-ID: <18610.826178957@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > WC is restricted in funds, so what if WC were to host a volunteer PR fund > pool for FreeBSD? I for one would contribute, and I know my boss probably > would get the company to pitch in some (he is rather impressed with it vs > Linux). Rather than tie this up with WC, I think simply funding the FreeBSD, Inc. entity we've established (which currently has all of $443 in its bank account :-) is a better idea, and at some point would allow us to explore advertising on our own. See http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html for more details. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 6 22:51:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA10402 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10392 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA10366 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:50:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Act Now ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 22:50:43 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I guess politics is part of the package when the Internet is so much on the spotlight :( Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: rem-conf-request@es.net Received: from osi-west.es.net (osi-west.es.net [128.55.32.32]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10079 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:57:36 -0800 Received: from mailer.together.net by osi-west.es.net with ESnet SMTP (PP); Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:29:49 -0800 Received: from sequoia.together.net (sequoia.together.net [204.97.120.25]) by mailer.together.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA20376; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:30:17 -0500 Received: from VTR133.ramp.together.net (VTR133.ramp.together.net [204.97.125.82]) by sequoia.together.net (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA22090; Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:35:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:35:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603070435.XAA22090@sequoia.together.net> X-Sender: scombs@together.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: rem-conf@es.net From: scombs@together.net (Sandy Combs) Subject: Join VON Coalition - Internet Telephone considered "MISUSE OF THE INTERNET" by ACTA. FCC Petition filed. Please spread the word about the VON Coalition... Thank you. Sandy - ------------------------- Forwarded message --------------------------------- ATTENTION ALL VON/FWD/IPONE/NETWATCH Members! ******************************************************* VON ALERT -- FWD ALERT --IPHONE ALERT -- NETWATCH ALERT ******************************************************* It appears that our recent FREE WORLD DIALUP press release was the straw that broke the camel's back. The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, SPRINT, and LDDS. According to the ACTA press release: "A growing number of companies are selling software programs with ancillary hardware options that enable a computer to transmit voice conversations. This, in fact, creates the ability to "by-pass" local, long distance and international carriers and allows for calls to be made for virtually 'no cost.'" And also, "...the misuse of the Internet as a way to "by-pass" the traditional means of obtaining long distance service could result in a significant reduction of the Internet's ability to transport its ever enlarging amount of data traffic." 'VON' COALITION BEING FORMED A VON Coalition is currently being formed and members will testify at the spring meeting of the FCC when they discus telephony issues. If you don't want to loose your right to VON technology, NOW is the time to be counted. WHAT CAN I DO? We need an immediate head count of those on these lists that CARE ENOUGH TO BECOME INVOLVED! Subscribe RIGHT NOW to this SPECIAL VON Coalition list: vonYES@pulver.com To subscribe: VON Coalition List 1) send E-MAIL to: majordomo@pulver.com 2) leave the SUBJECT blank 3) in the BODY write - subscribe vonyes To subscribe: VON Coalition List Digest 1) send E-MAIL to: majordomo@pulver.com 2) leave the SUBJECT blank 3) in the BODY write - subscribe vonyes-digest Further discussions regarding the VON Coalition will be posted to the above only. If you DO NOT act TODAY, your rights and FREE TELEPHONE via the internet may well be lost! Jeff Pulver Sandy Combs (Press Release distribution authorized by, Jennifer Durst-Jarrell, Executive Director, ACTA 3/5/96) ______________________________________________________________________________ FCC PETITIONED TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET! WASHINGTON, March 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The America's Carriers Telecommunication Association (ACTA), a trade association of competitive, long distance carriers today petitioned the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to stop companies from selling software and hardware products that enable use of the Internet to voice long distance services. A growing number of companies are selling software programs with ancillary hardware options that enable a computer to transmit voice conversations. This, in fact, creates the ability to "by-pass" local, long distance and international carriers and allows for calls to be made for virtually "no cost." For example, on-line service providers generally charge users around $10.00 for five hours of access and then around $3.00 for each additional hour. Five hours equals 300 minutes, divided by $10 is 3.3 cents per minute . The average residential long distance telephone call costs about 22 cents per minute or seven times as much. The Internet is a unique form of wire communications. The rapid growth of the Internet is stressing the capacities of the Internet itself. The Internet access points are growing at 50% per month with subscriber growth running close to 30% per month. Individuals are accessing the Internet for more and more business applications such as market research, news, and advertising with corporate web sites exploding, to say nothing about using the Internet for E-mail applications. ACTA submits that it is incumbent upon the FCC to exercise jurisdiction over the use of the Internet for unregulated interstate and international telecommunications services. Long distance and international carriers must be approved by the FCC to operate and must file tariffs before both the FCC and state public service commissions. All of these requirements are stipulated in the Communications Act of 1934 and the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Technology may once again be surpassing government's ability to control its proper use. However, the misuse of the Internet as a way to "by-pass" the traditional means of obtaining long distance service could result in a significant reduction of the Internet's ability to transport its ever enlarging amount of data traffic. Therefore, ACTA has petitioned the FCC to define the type of permissible communications which may be effected over the Internet. America's Carriers Telecommunication Association was founded in 1985 by independent long distance companies to serve the needs of small businesses and to advance the goals of more effective competition. ACTA's membership today includes over 130 companies engaged in providing telecommunications services. - 0 - ____________________ END PRESS RELEASE ____________________________________ ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 00:14:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA17595 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:14:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA17588 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA10812; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:13:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199603070813.AAA10812@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Wilson MacGyver cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:39:03 EST." <313E7677.23477815@cylatech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:13:34 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Yes, you can access the vga card directly if you like . Just use XFree86 DGA extensions to gain access to the card and it is a dirt cheap of initializing the graphic card for a given resolution. I implemented a version of "tv" using the DGA extensions which access the frame buffer directly. Basically, my matrox meteor video capture buffer dumps the frames straight into my S3 968 linear buffer. Enjoy, Amancio >>> Wilson MacGyver said: > I have a question, how can I access the video card directly? > > I'm trying to implement a 2d/3d primitive library, and I don't > want to have to use X for it. > > > -- > Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com > -------------------------------------- > Veni, Vidi, Concidi. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 00:53:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20052 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20038 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA24256 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:51:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA28301 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:51:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA15962 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:40:37 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603070840.JAA15962@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:40:37 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 6, 96 05:32:37 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jake Hamby wrote: > Whatever happened to the idea of taking NetBSD's ATAPI CD-ROM driver code > instead of the alpha-quality driver that we have now? I'm all for this > idea, does any core team member want to take it upon themselves to import > the driver code? I'm neutral to this point, i simply don't have ATAPI, nor would i ever let one pass into my door. However: please, DON'T confuse the core team with a code-hacking machine. We are there for ``political'' tasks (release coordination, strategical decisions), and incidentally are also committers by the same time. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 01:08:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA21073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21066 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA16982 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:07:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199603070907.KAA16982@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 10:04:17 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers), freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Documenters) In-Reply-To: <199603062310.AAA13045@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from "J Wunsch" at Mar 7, 96 12:10 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As Don Yuniskis wrote: > >> I'm trying to repair some existing and create some new >> man pages. But the macros are pretty much alphabet soup! >> Can someone point me to a description of those used in man >> pages? > > RTFM :-) Where? > j@uriah 227% apropos mdoc > mdoc(7) - quick reference guide for the -mdoc macro package > mdoc.samples(7) - tutorial sampler for writing manuals with -mdoc That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). FWIW, you can format all man pages with the andoc (-mandoc) macros. andoc decides whether they're in an or doc format, and loads the appropriate macros. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 01:33:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA22280 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:33:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA22269 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA18914 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:33:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 10:29:50 MET From: Greg Lehey X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger question: which operating system should I install on my PC? Stretching the term "Operating System" to include program loaders like DOS, we have at least the following choices on standard PC hardware: DOS Windows 95% Windows NT OS/2 Linux Xenix SCO "UNIX" UnixWare Solaris 2.x BSD/OS FreeBSD NetBSD OpenBSD (?) I've tried to list these roughly in order of publicity; no flames please, note the word "roughly". One way or another, FreeBSD is quite a way down the list. What questions do people ask? I assert that the most common one is "which OS do I choose". In most cases the implicit answer is "none, DOS", but in some cases people really do care. We should be able to help them come to a good decision--*not* necessarily FreeBSD. Another question is the one most people have been discussing in the past day or two: "Which system has the best performance?" As people have indicated, this is so tied in to hardware that it's impossible to give a really good answer. Certainly it pays to be fair to each system and show up its strengths (and weaknesses). A third question might be "ease of use". This is a hot potato, since it relates to previous experience. For many people, the choice might be DOS. For the rest of us, though, it's more difficult to choose. I don't know if it's even worth following up on this one. Looking at the two first questions, I think it would be presumptous of us to want to make a choice by ourselves. I think we should at least contact the other groups (yes, even Microsoft) and for a group to hack up some criteria for comparing the systems. Possibly a magazine would be interested, if we can come to a consensus on which magazine would be neutral enough. I expect that many vendors (particularly Microsoft and IBM) would either not want to participate or impose such ridiculous conditions that we wouldn't be able to work with them, but I think we should at least show the good will. That brings us to the next point: what criteria? I don't even know how to start, but here are some things that spring to mind: - Stability (how do we measure it? Maybe including ease of getting bugs fixed) - Performance (what do we measure?) - Ease of installation - Ease of use - Price/performance ratio :-) - Ease of administration and maintenance (including installing new versions of the system) These are, of course, only labels on which to hang a whole lot more. In particular, such a group would have to establish criteria for the measurements. This is a pretty vague suggestion, but I think it will draw more attention to our professional attitude than if we start a one-sided attack on Linux, however professionally we go about it. Comments? Flames? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 01:55:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA23471 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA23428 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA26393; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:50:55 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA28709; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:50:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id JAA16268; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:57:39 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603070857.JAA16268@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:57:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: macgyver@infinet.com (Wilson MacGyver) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <313E7677.23477815@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 00:39:03 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wilson MacGyver wrote: > I have a question, how can I access the video card directly? > > I'm trying to implement a 2d/3d primitive library, and I don't > want to have to use X for it. You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:05:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA24252 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA24243 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:05:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA20629 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:05:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 11:01:51 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603020859.AAA13750@Root.COM>; from "David Greenman" at Mar 02, 96 12:59 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> Is there a simple sequence I can type into ddb to switch stack pointers and >> frames so I can do a "where" to see where I was when the first panic occured? > > I thought about writing some extensions to "trace" to allow it to apply a > (operator supplied) 'stack offset' that would be used to adjust the pushed FPs > (for precisely the purpose of what you're requesting above). ...but I haven't > gotten around to this yet. For now, I just use 'curpcb' to find the stack that > [might] have been in use at the time of the double fault, and then munge > around in the stack manually (yes, I know, yuck). Of course if there was no > process running at the time, you'll want to look at tmpstk instead. > This code definately code use some work - I just wanted to catch the case > in the first place so that machines didn't just "wedge"...and then have at > least a snowball's chance of figuring out the cause. I'm not happy with the > way that the double fault TSS currently works (using IdlePTD, etc), but I > haven't had any time to implement it better. I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:22:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25240 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun001.sil.com (sun001.sil.com [193.195.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA25226 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by sun001.sil.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19781; Thu, 7 Mar 96 10:21:01 GMT Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:09:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Barry Perryman Subject: Re: man page hacking To: Greg Lehey Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, FreeBSD hackers , FreeBSD Documenters In-Reply-To: <199603070907.KAA16982@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are > written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any > documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). OSF1 v1.3? man(5) HPUX 9.05 man(5) Solaris 2.4 man(5) <- alledgedly Sun0S 4.1.2 man(7) Linux 1.1.49 man(7) Sorry my freebsd machine is at home :-( Barry From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:28:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25633 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25626 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.7.4+2.6Wbeta6/3.4W4-MX960305-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id TAA02866; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:28:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb4/3.3W5-MX960229-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id TAA29302; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:27:51 +0900 Received: (from seki@localhost) by sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb7/3.4W-) id TAA07229; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:28 +0900 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:28 +0900 From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <199603071024.TAA07229@sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD-core@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, h-kimura@tokyo.se.fujitsu.co.jp Subject: Re: Updated fe Ethernet driver for 960226 SNAP In-Reply-To: <304.826087701@time.cdrom.com> References: <199603041103.UAA11650@sphinx.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> <304.826087701@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I just put the updated version of my fe driver on freefall, as: > > Anyone taking this one? Is this question for me? If so, what are you asking? # Please forgive me that I'm bad at English... :-( BTW, I grabbed FreeBSD 2.2 960303 SNAP today, and tested fe-960303 with it. (It's just an accident that they have same release date. :-) Fortunately, it works without any trouble. I hope to see the updated fe in the next SNAP. Regards, From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:33:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25981 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25971 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA22370 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:32:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071032.LAA22370@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: perryman@sun001.sil.com (Barry Perryman) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 11:29:22 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD), freebsd-doc@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Documenters) In-Reply-To: ; from "Barry Perryman" at Mar 7, 96 10:09 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are >> written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any >> documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). > > OSF1 v1.3? man(5) > HPUX 9.05 man(5) > Solaris 2.4 man(5) <- alledgedly > Sun0S 4.1.2 man(7) > Linux 1.1.49 man(7) Thanks. I have a SunOS machine, so I suppose I can get them from there. From a more practical standpoint, I suppose we can snarf the Linux pages. > Sorry my freebsd machine is at home :-( Ditto. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:41:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA26560 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA26551 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA018925270; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:41:18 -0800 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA184325548; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:48 +0530 Message-Id: <199603071045.AA184325548@fakir.india.hp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 04:13:16 PST." <15186.826114396@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:47 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "jkh" == Jordan K Hubbard said: >>>>> "gl" == Greg Lehey said: jkh> So many people ask me for comparative data on the two operating jkh> systems that I think it's time to give them what they want. [...elided...] gl> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger gl> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? [...elided...] I would also love to see comparisions done with Netware, Windows NT, SCO and others so that users get valuable information about the choices available to them. I have this feeling that many more people use Netware- / Windows- based PC networks than any form of Unix; many because of ignorance of the alternatives that are available to them. They live with egregious performance on costly hardware and lousy stability to boot. I think they deserve a better deal :). If we are going to take up the benchmarking effort seriously, we probably should have comparisions with the current "market-leaders" in PC OSes and networking products. The tough part is probably locating / creating portable benchmarks. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:41:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA26594 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA26580 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id SAA09794 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:43:35 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 7 Mar 96 10:40:20 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: , <1788.826172050@palmer.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: rlogind/telnetd not using all tty's? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer) writes: >Brian Tao wrote in message ID >: >> Nope... >> -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 9357 Jan 25 1995 libutil.so.2.0 <- non-working >> -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 8742 Dec 21 20:42 libutil.so.2.0 <- working >> I guess I shouldn't be installing the compat2x.tgz chunk then, >> since that (I assume) is where the libutil.so.2.0 dated Jan 25 1995 >> comes from. >Hmm. If that's true, I wonder what on earth libutil is doing in there >since it has the same version numbers... Yes, the compat2x dist that went with the release that was installed was totally bogus. it **replaced** good, working libraries with the old .2.0 versions from the 2.0R CD. -Peter >Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27002 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA26996 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA13401; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:48:57 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:29:50 +0700." <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 02:48:57 -0800 Message-ID: <13399.826195737@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > answer is "none, DOS", but in some cases people really do care. We > should be able to help them come to a good decision--*not* necessarily > FreeBSD. I agree that this should also be a goal, though we shouldn't forget that PR is the primary purpose here. If we shine at something in particular, we should note it without necessarily feeling obligated to "sell" features of the other systems with the same zeal. Maybe once the Linux people start hyping FreeBSD I'll change my tune, but not yet.. :-) > us to want to make a choice by ourselves. I think we should at least > contact the other groups (yes, even Microsoft) and for a group to hack > up some criteria for comparing the systems. Possibly a magazine would If you think you have a good chance of even getting these other groups to return our phone calls, I dunno. I can't imagine any exercise as frustrating and ultimately pointless as trying to find the appropriate person inside of Microsoft, explain what it is we're trying to do and try to get them to participate in the test selection. Woo doggies. I think I could just whap my head against an iron post outside for an hour and achieve the same effect with less pain. To be frank, if someone else would like to make approaches to the likes of Microsoft, SCO and Sun, they're more than welcome to be my guest. If they actually succeed in getting some real buy-in from those folks, I'll be the first to propose them for sainthood, then ask them if they'd like to go into business with me since they're clearly the most awesome salesperson to walk the planet since Dale Carnegie and we could make a killing selling snow to the state of Alaska! :-) > That brings us to the next point: what criteria? I don't even know > how to start, but here are some things that spring to mind: Again, please bear in mind that this is a sales job first and foremost; it doesn't have to be the most comprehensive survey to hit the planet, nor would many people even bother to read it if it were. I'm sorry if I'm sounding more like Bill Gates and less like an engineer here, but truly - most people, and I'm not talking about 99% of the engineers on this list who have already stepped away from the herd simply by subscribing to it, don't WANT to wade through reams of comparison data and make the kind of truly informed choice that an engineer would respect. They want to be told which is "better" so that they can race straight through the selection process or reaffirm that their original choice was the best one. As I believe Justice Renquist is credited with saying, "What most people call thinking is simply rearranging their prejudices." That's not to say that this shouldn't be a perfectly credible attempt to compare the OSes, and certainly some level of ethical and "journalistic" standards will need to be maintained just to prevent the entire thing from being dismissed out of hand as 100% hype, but let's not let our engineering impulses get the best of us. If we had any actual marketers, this would be more properly their job. This is why I think that expanding the purview to cover all UNIX operating systems is a big mistake. Not only does it increase the complexity of the survey so much that it will never be completed in any of our lifetimes, it's not even germain. We're comparing, at least I originally sought to compare, the FREE operating systems (and sorry Dennis, but I mean free in the context of money changing hands, not the number of hours it takes to come to grips with it) and this is not and should not be a general UNIX critique. Such would be the fodder of at least one USENIX presentation and possibly an entire SAGE conference. Let's Keep It Simple and try to actually complete this in a reasonable time-frame. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 02:57:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27432 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27426 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA13470; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:57:28 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:01:51 +0700." <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 02:57:28 -0800 Message-ID: <13468.826196248@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was I think the real challenge here is to implement gdb-remote. I was at Cisco a little while back and got asked this - apparently the Cisco engineers use the gdb-remote features of their routers to debug IOS over serial lines. We could do the same thing with serial console support and a command in ddb to drop into gdb-remote mode, then you'd just fire up your gdb on some other box and say "over there! I want to debug that guy!" Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 03:00:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27745 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27719 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id BAA00373; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:13:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 01:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > 2) We should not be afraid to make a Web page comparing features of > FreeBSD and Linux. We should give it the "test of fire" by posting the Agreed. > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." That logo looks so cheesy though :P > 4) We should not be afraid to capitalize on Linux's name by calling > ourselves "a better Linux than Linux" or "a better Unix than Linux". I would never want "a better linux than linux." I don't want to make it appear that it's okay to refer to Linux as the de facto Free OS. :-) > 5) Print advertisement! I can't emphasize this enough. I was looking $$$$ > > 6) IRC support! I know this last one sounds silly, but I notice that > manning the #FreeBSD channel, perhaps with the help of a "BSDBot". Lots We already 'man' this channel. It's been in existance for a while now. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 03:02:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27898 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27882 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA23706 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:01:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071101.MAA23706@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 11:58:22 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <13468.826196248@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 07, 96 2:57 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a >> similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating >> some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > > I think the real challenge here is to implement gdb-remote. I was at > Cisco a little while back and got asked this - apparently the Cisco > engineers use the gdb-remote features of their routers to debug IOS > over serial lines. > > We could do the same thing with serial console support and a command > in ddb to drop into gdb-remote mode, then you'd just fire up your > gdb on some other box and say "over there! I want to debug that guy!" I think that there's room for both. I wrote my lowbug because I was dissatisfied with BSDI's kgdb, which does essentially what you describe. In particular, it's difficult to debug a keyboard driver with ddb, and it's difficult to debug a serial driver with kgdb. In addition, kgdb requires a second machine, something that's not always available. Also, kgdb doesn't have all the facilities of (ddb + lowbug), like real hardware memory access breakpoints. I tried looking at the gdb code a while back, and it wasn't very encouraging. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 03:27:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00297 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00292 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA25117 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:26:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071126.MAA25117@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: gcrutchr@nightflight.com (Gary Crutcher) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 12:23:15 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960306152135.00684040@nightflight.com>; from "Gary Crutcher" at Mar 06, 96 7:21 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Having originally purchased and installed BSDI, it is really a no-brainer to > install. > Just answer the questions, and you are basically up and running. > > The caveat for me was this: > > sgl user license $ 995 > 16 user license 1995 (this may be 64 user license, don't > remember) > unlimited 2995 > > For an individual, or small business on a budget. This can be an issue. FWIW, I believe these prices are old. BSDI now has a new sales manager, ex SCO, and he believes in high prices :-) I don't know the new prices, but I believe they have been raised significantly. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 03:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01683 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01667 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 03:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA11889; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:46:56 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199603071146.QAA11889@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:46:56 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:29:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > question: which operating system should I install on my PC? > Stretching the term "Operating System" to include program loaders like > DOS, we have at least the following choices on standard PC hardware: > [...] > Xenix [...] > > Comments? Flames? IMHO Xenix means two choises, not one: Xenix 286 Xenix 386 Xenix 386 is completely dead (killed by SCO Unix). I can suggest only one use for it: it would work even in 1.5M of memory. And I see no reason to run Xenix 286 on any machine with {>2}86 CPU. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 04:08:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA03446 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA03308 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:07:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27437 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:07:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071207.NAA27437@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 13:04:07 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603071146.QAA11889@hq.icb.chel.su>; from "Serge A. Babkin" at Mar 7, 96 4:46 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger >> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? >> Stretching the term "Operating System" to include program loaders like >> DOS, we have at least the following choices on standard PC hardware: >> > [...] >> Xenix > [...] >> >> Comments? Flames? > > IMHO Xenix means two choises, not one: > > Xenix 286 > Xenix 386 > > Xenix 386 is completely dead (killed by SCO Unix). I can suggest only > one use for it: it would work even in 1.5M of memory. And I see no > reason to run Xenix 286 on any machine with {>2}86 CPU. Yes, I know about the different kinds of Xenix. In fact, the 386 version I have is called Xenix System V. To the best of my knowledge, it is still selling well. If it has been discontinued, it was relatively recently (in the last 12 months). Of course, I'm not suggesting that anybody should buy SCO products. I'm just saying they're out there. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 04:35:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA04625 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA04604 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 04:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA12777; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:35:11 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199603071235.RAA12777@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:35:11 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603071207.NAA27433@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 01:04:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > >> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? > >> Stretching the term "Operating System" to include program loaders like > >> DOS, we have at least the following choices on standard PC hardware: > >> > > [...] > >> Xenix > > [...] > >> > >> Comments? Flames? > > > > IMHO Xenix means two choises, not one: > > > > Xenix 286 > > Xenix 386 > > > > Xenix 386 is completely dead (killed by SCO Unix). I can suggest only > > one use for it: it would work even in 1.5M of memory. And I see no > > reason to run Xenix 286 on any machine with {>2}86 CPU. > > Yes, I know about the different kinds of Xenix. In fact, the 386 > version I have is called Xenix System V. To the best of my knowledge, AFAIK both of them are Xenix System V. May be "386" is omited now because Xenix 286 was discontinued. > it is still selling well. If it has been discontinued, it was > relatively recently (in the last 12 months). It's a surprize for me! I throught that it has been discontinued near 1992. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 05:24:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA07175 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA07170 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA01584; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:16:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:16:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , Wilson MacGyver Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-Reply-To: <199603070857.JAA16268@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can learn how to use it? ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 05:49:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08171 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from giasdl01.vsnl.net.in ([202.54.1.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08166 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 05:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by giasdl01.vsnl.net.in; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/02Mar96-0645PM) id AA20799; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:18 +0530 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:18 +0530 (IST) From: DCM DATA SYSTEMS To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: joining the team Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sir, We are interested in joining the development team,please guide us for the same. Waiting for your reply, Sincerely Rupin T. Mohan. DCM Data Systems Ltd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 06:00:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA08833 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:00:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA08828 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20481-2>; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:59:52 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603062252.OAA05728@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar7.091137est.20481-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... Try to get that from BSDI.... On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > > I may be overstating the obvious here..... How many people are on the > > hackers/questions mailing lists???? > > 631 freebsd-hackers > 579 freebsd-questions > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 06:03:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA09078 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA09069 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20481-2>; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:14:30 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:02:39 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Jake Hamby Cc: Brandon Gillespie , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar7.091430est.20481-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan, or maybe someone else, is there a 'collection' of tools that everyone can run on thier local systems to generate a 'standard' output file that we all can email/ftp to some central depository... On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > As far as raw benchmarks go, I'd suggest anybody who is about to install > > FreeBSD install Linux first, run some benchmarks, record them (smile), > > and then install FreeBSD and do the same. That way we can get > > comparisons on the _SAME HARDWARE_. There is a stray IDE HD laying > > around my office, I may take that and do said experiment on my own > > workstation. Collecting this sort of comparison is what we need. > > Comparing 'nearly-the-same' computer just doesn't cut it--too much is left > > open for debate. > > > > -Brandon Gillespie- > > Good idea! What kind of benchmarks should we tell people to run, though? > I hear bonnie is pretty good for network benchmarking. Perhaps BYTE > magazine's Unix benchmarks would be good, although last time I couldn't > get them to work under Linux because it depends on behavior of the shell > and utilities such as /bin/time that is neither BSD nor System V. Any others? > > --Jake > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 06:07:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA09312 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:07:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA09300 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id BAA10970; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:14 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199603071407.BAA10970@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: mtaylor@cybernet.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:14 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "mtaylor@cybernet.com" at Mar 6, 96 05:47:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk mtaylor@cybernet.com writes: > We've recently gotten a full T1 link to the Internet, and along with it, > a news feed. I have the T1 and news feed on a 486 DX2/66 machine, with > 2 SCSI tape drives and 4 SCSI disks (all on one Adaptec 1542B controller), > with 16 Mb RAM and 100 Mb of swap. > I was wondering about the slow performance of innd-1.4 wrt > getting the news artices- it gets about 1 article per second. OUCH ! Until recently, this machine was a 386DX/40, BT542B, 2 SCSI devices, 20 meg of RAM and 64 meg of swap. With the "streaming mode" patches to nntpd, it would receive articles at the rate of 3 per second across a 64k link. It simply didn't have the address space to accomodate INN so I ran C-News but it performed quite well for what it was. It had two major problem areas .. it was usual for processing of the inbound material to fall well behind (up to ~30k articles) through the lack of disk bandwidth and CPU. It was also almost impossible to feed any more than about 5 "downlinks". Adding more just increased the size of the unprocessed inbound queue. It is now a 486DX4/100 with an Adaptec 2842 and the rate at which articles are received has not changed, implying that either the ISDN link or the Sun at the other end is the limiting factor. It still runs C-News but with 32 meg of RAM. However, there is now no (significant) inbound or outbound backlog. > What kind of machine should I be using for the news spooler? > A) 486DX2/66 fast enough? need a Pentium-133? For a T1 inbound, a 486 is unlikely to scale well to many outbound streams. > B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? If you're intending to run many outbound queues, INN is definitely the go (with streaming patches) and get as much memory as is financially viable. > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > in for the rest of the news spool) Splitting the history and active files away from any other section of your spool area is the most performance-enhancing thing you can do. From there, split alt, comp and whatever else needs to be on separate file-systems for more space-oriented reasons. This could be on separate spindles or (better) busses as your budget might permit. > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". > E) newfs- what options for creating spool disks? (-i 1024, etc.) For hierarchies with lots of little files (i.e. almost all but alt.binaries), you need more inodes than the default but be aware that this does incur a slight performance penalty. > BTW- > I've found FreeBSD to be very useful over the last few years. I > appreciate the work that has gone into it. Thanks to WC, and all > the core team! With only the odd little hiccup now and then, FreeBSD beats the commercial flavours I was using previously without question. If you can, run a second box (no need to be fancy) to track the current -stable release and only take snapshots of it onto your production box at prudent times. This gets you stability and reliability whilst maintaining the currency of programmed responses to CERT advisories, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 06:51:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12084 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12072 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA07088 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:45:05 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma007074; Thu Mar 7 08:45:05 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA01201; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:12:41 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA16678; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:24:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603071424.IAA16678@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Greg Lehey cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:01:51 +0700." <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:24:56 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been thinking about it too, but for now it's quite useable and that's the important thing. > > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information > as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. > > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? > yea, SCO's kernel debugger has a few more advanced features that I kind of like, that probably wouldn't be too hard to implement: a readline type history, macros and user-defined functions, casting and structure dumping (maybe done through macros), watchpoints (do these work in ddb?), the single step execution holds your hand a bit better, and a couple others. I'd also like to be able to load in a new symbol table, such as when an lkm is loaded. Now it's only possible to debug loaded lkms, by running nm on the module_mod output from the modload, and using the addresses from that. I realize that this opens a can of worms wrt to multiple lkms and unloading, but usually you've gotta reboot before that'd kill you anyhow :). Maybe there's a better way to do this too. > Greg > > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 06:54:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12304 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12299 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 06:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA19072; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:53:28 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603071453.JAA19072@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: P6 and PCI To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:53:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <18363.826175397@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 6, 96 09:09:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > I need to buy a PC soon and was wondering about the current crop of > > PCI chipsets . I seem to recollect some performance problems > > with the Orion chipset. > > If you don't need it right away, the Triton II sounds promising. > > Otherwise, I'd just get an ASUS Triton MB. I would stay away > from the Orion stuff for now simply due to cost - do you really > want to pay $1200 for JUST the motherboard? :-) > Jordan Don't even try to buy _decent PPro systems now. I have 5 of them here ( 150-200Mhz). They are stable, fast with arithmetics but PCI speed plainly SUCKS ! Makes them pretty much unusable for server kind of employment. Thanks to Intel ! I also suspect that graphics will be slow as hell too, so no worsktation either. I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. I'm fishing around for the "Alder" SMP motherboard which runs ftp.freebsd.org and couple of other huge archives. This is supposedly one that does work. No luck so far :) I hope that in the summer we'll have SMP support in FreeBSD and then we'll fly really high :))) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 07:18:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13662 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13656 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.207]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23329; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29911; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:18:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:18:03 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Act Now ! In-Reply-To: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > I guess politics is part of the package when the Internet is so much > on the spotlight :( > > Amancio > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] The point being, if use of the internet stopped being an experiemental tool and became one tenth as popular as, say, the web browsers, the internet would stop being useful as a communications medium. The bandwidth ain't there, and if it was, the swithcing point bandwidth isn't there either. The internet isn't a viable option for massive replacement of our telephone network. It's fine for experimenters, and I've been one of them, but if it stopped being experimental, and everybody joined in, this would be a disaster. ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 07:23:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13968 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13961 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA13684; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:20:19 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603071520.JAA13684@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:20:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070345.UAA21122@terra.aros.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Mar 6, 96 08:45:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Lo and behold, Joe Greco once said: > > For comparison: > > > Let me sketch out my news operation here. I have multiple news peers, very > > few readers, I retain about a million articles (5 to 7 days retention).. > > We have 6 peers, and about the same amount of retention. > > > good deal, not because CPU was much of an issue. I'd say I was running > > 30-40% idle. That suggests a DX2/66 would be squeaky, though. The box is > > now a P90 and I notice a slight performance improvement. > > We're running on a P100 and typically have 90% idle, except during the > news.daily run (which admittedly takes about 7 hours or more). why so long? this is typically a clue to me to look at the RSS of expire and inn (or - easier - see how long the expire itself takes, see /var/log/news/expire.log, the start-to-end of expire should be no longer than 20 or 30 minutes MAX, particularly on a fast box). A shortage of memory will be immediately apparent because expire will take _forever_. > > > B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? > > > > Memory: 16MB + sizeof(history.pag) * 2MB + numclients * 1MB + numfeeds * 1MB. > > > > "clients" are expected simultaneous nnrp's. feeds are outbound feeds, > > innxmit or nntplink, no matter. sizeof(history.pag) in megabytes. > > It almost sounds like you developed this forumla before the > sharedactive patch meandered its way around. I'd have agreed with you > before (it would say we needed about 56 megs of ram, and we were actually > using about 49 during non-expire times), but the sharedactive patch > reduces the memory usage from 1.3M to .3M per client (roughly) on our > system. Obviously, the larger your active file, the more benefit you'll > achieve from this. On a 64MB machine, we run with about 28 megs used for > cache on average. This is with between 5 and 20 clients. The formula (slightly modified) dates from the days of C-news, and is neither INN- nor FreeBSD-specific. It is a really good ruler. FreeBSD actually requires a little _more_ RAM than the formula suggests, but it's still very ballpark. Things like sharedactive are nice, but in reality news _still_ needs lots of RAM available to cache data, so I might modify that to say "numclients * 1MB _with_ sharedactive" or "numclients * 2MB _without_". That is more complex, however, so I just leave my formula alone. ;-) > > it will begin to fight for pages with INN, and both your innd and expire > > processes will slow to a crawl. You also must factor in memory for other > > running processes (i.e. clients and feeds), and the OS itself needs some RAM > > (16MB, let's say, for kernel, cache, scratch, etc). > > Quite fair. I think you can squeak by on a bit less than this if > you're .. ahh, willing to put up with some burps and slowness, but given > that this machine is also going to act as a router -- I agree completely. > > > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > > > in for the rest of the news spool) > > > > Go PCI SCSI if you can. Also, the more disks, the merrier (I have 14 but > > then I'm a performance freak). > > As a side note, be sure to keep the history* files on a separate spool > from the rest of the world. Do the same with the overfiew files if you > keep them. It'll make your life a lot happier. Keep _everything_ on separate spindles. > > > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? > > > > I've had good luck with the AHA3940 and NCR-810 based cards. The AHA2940 > > should work well too. > > It's a good performer, though we have occasional stability problems > with it. I think it's more due to one of the drives -- a 9gb micropolis > for storing alt.binaries -- than anything else. I haven't had any problems, but I'm mostly a Seagate shop. A few Micropolis drives out at Exec-PC lasted a few months and then died, I specifically asked that they be replaced with Barracudas and life is good.. > > Pay close attention to the memory advice. I see so many people try to get > > by without enough memory. It doesn't pay. I run Exec-PC's news operation > > and they try to squeeze 150-200 nnrp clients onto a box with 128MB RAM. > > They complain to me that it "takes forever to connect". I wonder why. ;-) > > That's masochism for you. :-) Actually, it's budget combined with "you can't FIT more than 128MB onto an ASUS Triton board" :-( ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 07:38:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14870 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from odyssey.ucc.ie (odyssey.ucc.ie [143.239.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14850 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by odyssey.ucc.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA27024; Thu, 7 Mar 96 15:37:32 GMT Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 15:37:32 GMT From: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie (Fergal Lane) Message-Id: <9603071537.AA27024@odyssey.ucc.ie> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: help needed Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am having serious difficulties with a FreeBSD 2.0.5 system. I have some important non-backed up data (OK, not very bright) on it which I would like to retrieve if at all possible. I had transferred my account to the FreeBSD machine about a week previously, it seemed quite stable. I had been logged in for about 2 days and then logged out. The background to the login box came back up but not the login box itself. I then rebooted the machine but it only got so far in the bootup sequence and has not gone any further since. It gets as far as : npx0 on motherboard npx0 : INT 16 interface WARNING : / was not properly dismounted and then it hangs. We have tried using the 2.1 fixit and boot floppies without success. They can't seem to mount the disk. The DOS partition is fine. Within FreeBSD the filesystem seemed fine up to the time I logged out. Even if some configuration files have been corrupted surely the boot floppy should at least allow me to mount the FreeBSD partition. Am I right in assuming the 2.1 floppies should work with FreeBSD 2.0.5.? I tried looking for a 2.0.5 fixit floppy but one doesn't seem to exist. Any way to mount FreeBSD from the DOS partition to retrieve the data? Do the way partition slices are set up on FreeBSD 2.0.5 differ from FreeBSD 2.1. If so is there a way to build a fixit floppy to take this into account? At this stage we are completely stumped. I know this is a fairly non-specific problem but if anyone out there has any ideas it would be very much appreciated. Regards, Fergal Lane From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 07:44:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA15539 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA15506 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:43:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA19159; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:40:51 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603071540.KAA19159@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:40:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: jgreco@solaria.sol.net, mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603070345.UAA21122@terra.aros.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Mar 6, 96 08:45:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi there folx, > > Lo and behold, Joe Greco once said: > > For comparison: > > > Let me sketch out my news operation here. I have multiple news peers, very > > few readers, I retain about a million articles (5 to 7 days retention).. > > We have 6 peers, and about the same amount of retention. I have 3 days and ~500.000 articles There is good home grown method to determine if you are getting full news feed. Say one is fed by 5 sites. Assuming they provide equally good and uniformly distributed news feed, you should be getting 20% from each peer , so 80% of articles should be rejected from each peer because one already has 'em. It's easy to see in the log file > > > good deal, not because CPU was much of an issue. I'd say I was running > > 30-40% idle. That suggests a DX2/66 would be squeaky, though. The box is > > now a P90 and I notice a slight performance improvement. I have PPro-200Mhz and it's mostly idle too (I peak at 200-250 nnrpd readers + 4 simult. newsfeeds ). > > We're running on a P100 and typically have 90% idle, except during the > news.daily run (which admittedly takes about 7 hours or more). > > > > B) how much RAM? 32 Mb enough? > > > > Memory: 16MB + sizeof(history.pag) * 2MB + numclients * 1MB + numfeeds * 1MB. > > > > "clients" are expected simultaneous nnrp's. feeds are outbound feeds, > > innxmit or nntplink, no matter. sizeof(history.pag) in megabytes. > > It almost sounds like you developed this forumla before the > sharedactive patch meandered its way around. I'd have agreed with you > before (it would say we needed about 56 megs of ram, and we were actually > using about 49 during non-expire times), but the sharedactive patch > reduces the memory usage from 1.3M to .3M per client (roughly) on our > system. Obviously, the larger your active file, the more benefit you'll > achieve from this. On a 64MB machine, we run with about 28 megs used for > cache on average. This is with between 5 and 20 clients. > > > it will begin to fight for pages with INN, and both your innd and expire > > processes will slow to a crawl. You also must factor in memory for other > > running processes (i.e. clients and feeds), and the OS itself needs some RAM > > (16MB, let's say, for kernel, cache, scratch, etc). > > Quite fair. I think you can squeak by on a bit less than this if > you're .. ahh, willing to put up with some burps and slowness, but given > that this machine is also going to act as a router -- I agree completely. I have two machines - one with 256Mb and one with 128M - both work fine , but the former one is more heavily loaded. There's no swapping , but expire _is slow > > > > C) would separate SCSI busses help? (I plan to put a second 4.3Gb HD > > > in for the rest of the news spool) > > > > Go PCI SCSI if you can. Also, the more disks, the merrier (I have 14 but > > then I'm a performance freak). I've tried CCD - which implemented in software kinda RAID array. What you do is you combine a few partitions ( would be best if they're from different HDs on different adapters ) to get _very fast and very big partitions. I've played with 4 HDs on 2 Aha2940 ( one was wide) adapters and I was able to peak 12+Mb read or write , and average 9+Mb/sec read and write ! This is great ! So now I'd like to try 4 4Gb wide Barracudas on 3 SCSI adaptors on a real news server. > > As a side note, be sure to keep the history* files on a separate spool > from the rest of the world. Do the same with the overfiew files if you > keep them. It'll make your life a lot happier. > > > > D) whose SCSI card has the 'best' performance? > > > > I've had good luck with the AHA3940 and NCR-810 based cards. The AHA2940 > > should work well too. > > It's a good performer, though we have occasional stability problems > with it. I think it's more due to one of the drives -- a 9gb micropolis > for storing alt.binaries -- than anything else. > > > Pay close attention to the memory advice. I see so many people try to get > > by without enough memory. It doesn't pay. I run Exec-PC's news operation > > and they try to squeeze 150-200 nnrp clients onto a box with 128MB RAM. > > They complain to me that it "takes forever to connect". I wonder why. ;-) > > That's masochism for you. :-) it often depends on the version of innd you run there. Inn1.4secunoff3 is well know for this slow nnrp start ( it pays its all attention to the newsfeeds ). There is a patched version of it which makes nnrp faster. I compiled it and one can get it from /incoming at ftp.freebsd.org Some other interesting problem is that on heavily loaded news machines the bottleneck could in the default length of the queue for TCP connections , which is "only" `5` . Making it bigger makes WWW servers mucho faster for example, so think there a way to make innd faster for reading too. Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 07:59:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17350 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17336 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:59:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12827 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:58:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071558.KAA12827@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost.rwwa.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Mar 1996 21:08:30 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:58:01 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Well, that's good! I see three main problems with the ATAPI driver as it > stands: I have an architectural complaint: We already have the ``controller/disk/...'' methodology for ide/atapi disks. This adds ``device'' (sorta like the scsi methodology''. I'd rather we pick *one* methodology. As it is now the two metodologies seem to conflict with each other in the case of atapi/cdrom, given the sensitivity of the cdrom code to whether you have ``disk wdN at wdcN drive N'' for the same controller. If I had my druthers I guess I'd reluctantly pic the scsi way, if there were some indirection of other painless way to maintain the same logical configuration given changes in the physical configuration. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:15:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18825 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18813 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03918; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071617.LAA03918@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Beukema From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > >> >6. $995 is without source code. It is very handy to have source code >> >when a problem arises and you cannot understand what is happening. >> >7. BSDI comes with more systems configured but all of the ISP packages >> >are available as packages (self installing) or ports (nearly so). >> >> You missed one of the most important ones. With FreeBSD, you can >> tune your generic kernel to match your devices...with BSD/OS you have >> to match your devices to their generic kernel to boot initially. >> > >No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in >much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code >you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. >jbeukema True, but its a pain and it doesn't save them so you have to do it every time until you get a kernel built. And you cant look at a list of devices easily to check for conflicts before you boot. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:23:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19205 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19200 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA08189; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:23:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:23:32 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when > > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: > > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' > > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." > > That logo looks so cheesy though :P Sorry for the noise here, but where would we submit 'ad' ideas? I've done a bit of graphical design work (international publications), and I have some possible ideas, my favorite is: beginning graphic: + + Did you know? L I N U X is used by hundreds of internet providers world wide... + + (where LINUX is a big snazzy looking logo) Clicking on the image will take you to the full page with some more graphics to the effect of Yet FreeBSD outperforms it in (most? all? majority?) network applications! Recently stanford university performed an independant study of FreeBSD and Linux. They found that (insert inspiring numbers and stats here). This study has prompted the FreeBSD development team to conduct further benchmarks, creating a wide array of information on using not only FreeBSD vs Linux, but also other PC unix systems such as NetBSD, BSD/OS (BSDi?), [Unixware, SCO?] [info on getting and learning more about FreeBSD] Etc. Actual wording would, of course, be correct and acurate :) -Brandon Gillespie- BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a PR@freebsd.org list? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:33:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19761 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19753 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03951; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071634.LAA03951@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> 3 to 1? Wow! I wonder which web server they used (Apache?). Presumably >> they used the same server software on each machine (I know, let's put > >They used NCSA httpd-1.3 on both machines, identical hardware. > >> missing" or "Does it bother you that Linux..." I'm pretty decent at >> marketing principles, I think that without excessive "negative >> campaigning" we can take some pretty big shots at the Linux crowd, who >> will hopefully say, "Yeah, I just got used to that Linux limitation. I >> didn't know FreeBSD could do that!". Unfortunately, Linux does many things (more than FreeBSD)...it just does very few things well. You'll get beaten to death if you try to go "feature to feature". db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:34:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19887 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19882 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuidg-0004IWC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 08:34 PST Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:33:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: invalid opcode cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, invalid opcode wrote: > On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > 2) We should not be afraid to make a Web page comparing features of > > FreeBSD and Linux. We should give it the "test of fire" by posting the > > Agreed. I'm planning this in my head right now. I envision a master information page which would have links to: "If you're new to Unix" (for people coming from DOS/Windows backgrounds), "Linux users", and "Familiar with another Unix (such as SunOS)". Of course there will be a lot of hypertext linkage between the various pages, so as to avoid needless duplication, but my plan is to have every advantage of FreeBSD touted in several different contexts. I also plan to make the page very "friendly" for novice users, while still containing substantial technical information for experts. I'll post the URL in a few weeks and will invite people (especially comp.os.linux.advocacy) to "beta-test" it for a while.. > > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when > > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: > > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' > > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." > > That logo looks so cheesy though :P Sorry, I typed it up in a few minutes. :-) I didn't think I could draw the FreeBSD daemon in ASCII. :P > > 4) We should not be afraid to capitalize on Linux's name by calling > > ourselves "a better Linux than Linux" or "a better Unix than Linux". > > I would never want "a better linux than linux." I don't want to make > it appear that it's okay to refer to Linux as the de facto Free OS. :-) Okay, good point, but I think that we can refer to it as that on the "For Linux users" page I referred to above. Yes, if people are not already familiar with Linux, we don't want to point it out to them. :-) > > 5) Print advertisement! I can't emphasize this enough. I was looking > > $$$$ I know.. But Walnut Creek has bucks, they just have to split it up among all of their CD-ROMs. > > > > 6) IRC support! I know this last one sounds silly, but I notice that > > manning the #FreeBSD channel, perhaps with the help of a "BSDBot". Lots > > We already 'man' this channel. It's been in existance for a while now. Good, I expected such, but I didn't check it out myself. I'll make it a point to drop in there a bit more frequently from now on. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:37:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20121 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20112 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuig3-0004HvC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 08:36 PST Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:36:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? In-Reply-To: <199603070840.JAA15962@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Jake Hamby wrote: > > I'm neutral to this point, i simply don't have ATAPI, nor would i ever > let one pass into my door. However: please, DON'T confuse the core > team with a code-hacking machine. We are there for ``political'' > tasks (release coordination, strategical decisions), and incidentally > are also committers by the same time. Well, I'm not going to worry about this much longer, my ATAPI drive is starting to flake out, and I've been eying the new Toshiba 6.7X SCSI. Apparently it can start pulling data off the drive WHILE it's still spinning up, and has 120ms seek time. The price at the computer show is US$205 right now, and I do have that nice Adaptec 2842VL so I am running away from IDE as quickly as my pocketbook will carry me! :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:51:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20974 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20969 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tuium-0004IfC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 08:51 PST Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:51:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-Reply-To: <13399.826195737@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > answer is "none, DOS", but in some cases people really do care. We > > should be able to help them come to a good decision--*not* necessarily > > FreeBSD. > > I agree that this should also be a goal, though we shouldn't forget > that PR is the primary purpose here. If we shine at something in > particular, we should note it without necessarily feeling obligated to > "sell" features of the other systems with the same zeal. Maybe once > the Linux people start hyping FreeBSD I'll change my tune, but not > yet.. :-) Yep, that only makes sense. The idea I'm working on for a Web page design would have a page called "Other OS's" which would show briefly the other UNIX (and I'm thinking of including non-Unix like NT, Win95, and OS/2) briefly with advantages, disadvantages, and pointers to Web pages. It would make us look a little more non-biased while we can still praise our own product in the other pages. This page would also have an emphasized message saying something like: "We want FreeBSD to be the best operating system it can be. If you decide to choose one of the other OS's (especially Linux) please fill out this brief survey to show why you made your decision." Then we can have a _brief_ fill-out form, which I can make a CGI to tabulate and automagically post the results. Chances are that all of the people who chose non-UNIX will say "Because of Windows compatibility and Microsoft Office" as major reasons, so I will probably segregate those results from the people who chose UNIX to make it more meaningful. > Again, please bear in mind that this is a sales job first and > foremost; it doesn't have to be the most comprehensive survey to hit > the planet, nor would many people even bother to read it if it were. > I'm sorry if I'm sounding more like Bill Gates and less like an > engineer here, but truly - most people, and I'm not talking about 99% > of the engineers on this list who have already stepped away from the > herd simply by subscribing to it, don't WANT to wade through reams of > comparison data and make the kind of truly informed choice that an > engineer would respect. They want to be told which is "better" so > that they can race straight through the selection process or reaffirm > that their original choice was the best one. > > As I believe Justice Renquist is credited with saying, "What most > people call thinking is simply rearranging their prejudices." Certainly that is the primary focus of the Web page layout I'm designing. I plan to have lots of cold, hard facts, but those would be available as hypertext links. So where a primary page would say "FreeBSD outperforms Linux by 3 to 1 for an Internet server!" there would be a link to the full study. This way, people can skim through literally dozens of FreeBSD advantages, and if they are particularly interested or skeptical about one, they can click on the actual survey, and so our ethical integrity is maintained. By the way, it would be nice if we had the funding to perform some USABILITY studies head-to-head with Linux, because I really believe our product is better "out of the box" than most Linux distributions out there (and I don't mean in terms of fancy TCL/Tk interface, but that the average admin can get software loaded and be productive in a reasonable amount of time, with less maintenance and upgrade concerns). We all know this is true, but it'd be nice to have some numbers (percentage satisfaction) to back it up. Perhaps this can be a survey question on my "Why did you choose another OS" page, and we can broaden the survey to include "Why did you choose FreeBSD" and we can all vote 100% satisfied.. ;-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 08:54:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA21157 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21152 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA14066; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:49:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603071649.JAA14066@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:49:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 6, 96 05:28:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Uh, what exactly would 2.2 have, then, if none of the planned major > > features made it in? > > > > Something like that should be called 2.1.1, not 2.2.0, IMO... > > At least it would have the improved VM code, Paul's new cool malloc(), > better Linux emulation, and a newer ports collection. Even with no other > features, this is at least deserving of 2.1.5, if not 2.2.0. Also, > remember that -current has been a separate branch of the tree, with many > improvements stretching back to six months before 2.1.0-RELEASE! > > Or we could do like Microsoft and wantonly bump version numbers at will. > I know, let's call it FreeBSD 4.0 to keep it in version parity with > Windows 95.. ;-) Recent MS examples: Office 95 (all programs were > bumped to 7.0, even though Word was 6.0 and Powerpoint was 4.0 formerly), > and Visual C++ (which went from 2.2 to 4.0 to keep it in parity with > MFC).. The point I'm trying to make is that version numbers are > ultimately arbitrary; I think it would be foolish to bump it up to > 3.0-RELEASE if we didn't add any major features, but there's nothing > stopping us. 2.2-RELEASE sounds perfectly fine. I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. We've already established the value of a 0.0.5 increment. What I think the improvements you noted represent is ~0.0.1 compared to the increment change for 2.1.0. I think a 2.1.5 would have to include fixes to the install process (without breaking gzip image loading). I think a 2.2.0 would need to include the PCMCIA support and the 4.4BSD-Lite2 integration, which were announced for it. Just my opinions, though... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 09:11:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22094 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22087 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from donna (cmh-p100.infinet.com [206.103.242.106]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20995; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:06:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:11:04 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org CC: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: direct access to video card References: <199603070857.JAA16268@uriah.heep.sax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands > lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each > hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics > cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm within GCC. Though I rather not do that. -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 09:11:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22170 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22157 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id EAA32641; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:10:08 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:10:08 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603071710.EAA32641@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> I think the real challenge here is to implement gdb-remote. I was at >> Cisco a little while back and got asked this - apparently the Cisco >> engineers use the gdb-remote features of their routers to debug IOS >> over serial lines. This consideration has stopped me from working on both ddb and on my own debugger. gdb over ethernet would be even more interesting. >I think that there's room for both. I wrote my lowbug because I was >dissatisfied with BSDI's kgdb, which does essentially what you >describe. In particular, it's difficult to debug a keyboard driver >with ddb, and it's difficult to debug a serial driver with kgdb. In Keyboard drivers are easy to debug using ddb over a serial console. (except ddb doesn't support i/o instructions). Serial drivers and anything else that depends on disabling interrupts are not so easy to debug using ddb because ddb doesn't keep interrupts disabled when tracing and doesn't disable interrupts unless they are already disabled. >addition, kgdb requires a second machine, something that's not always >available. Also, kgdb doesn't have all the facilities of (ddb + This is an important point. I have plenty of machines and serial lines but I only use serial a console when I know in advance that I need it to debug. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 09:20:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23085 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23076 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA18790 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199603071719.SAA18790@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 18:16:17 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199603071720.MAA04005@etinc.com>; from "dennis" at Mar 7, 96 12:20 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >>> The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > >>> question: which operating system should I install on my PC? > >>> Stretching the term "Operating System" to include program loaders like > >>> DOS, we have at least the following choices on standard PC hardware: > >>> > >> [...] > >>> Xenix > >> [...] > >>> > > Shall we compare bobsleds to motorcycles next? If there are people out there who might consider choosing between one or FreeBSD, sure. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 09:32:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23900 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23893 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tujY4-0004IdC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 09:32 PST Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:32:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: <199603071649.JAA14066@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same > as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. > > We've already established the value of a 0.0.5 increment. > > What I think the improvements you noted represent is ~0.0.1 compared > to the increment change for 2.1.0. > > I think a 2.1.5 would have to include fixes to the install process > (without breaking gzip image loading). > > I think a 2.2.0 would need to include the PCMCIA support and the > 4.4BSD-Lite2 integration, which were announced for it. > > Just my opinions, though... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous command-line fdisk utilities. I thought somebody had done a code drop of this into a stand-alone program some time ago. What ever happened to that? I wouldn't mind if /stand/sysinstall was hacked to allow fdisk/partition/formatting WITHOUT having to pretend we are reinstalling the operating system. If it is a standalone, I suggest "format" as the name, since that meshes with what SunOS/Solaris uses. Comments??? I think this is _very_ important for the next release, and not very difficult to do. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 09:45:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24807 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24802 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA28064; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:45:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199603071745.KAA28064@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 07 Mar 1996 02:57:28 PST Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:45:17 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I think the real challenge here is to implement gdb-remote. I was at : Cisco a little while back and got asked this - apparently the Cisco : engineers use the gdb-remote features of their routers to debug IOS : over serial lines. I know that Linux/MIPS has this feature. While I've not been able to make it work yet, it does sound rather nice... I think generally Linux has this, but I'm not sure. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 10:25:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27561 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27549 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA13541; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:23:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199603071823.KAA13541@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:23:32 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:23:44 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Brandon Gillespie said: > BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a > PR@freebsd.org list? Chat would be more appropiate and you can always post on freebsd-multimedia to get help on multimedia stuff like generating mpeg videos or mpeg sound files, etc... Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 10:30:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27883 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27844 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04144; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:30:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:30:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jerry Kendall From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. > >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... >Try to get that from BSDI.... Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:17:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01669 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01664 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tukwr-000I8hC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 20:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tuk4h-00001OC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:06 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:06:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:29:50 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > question: which operating system should I install on my PC? IMHO, the answer is pretty straightforward: Install the OS which solves your problem _and_ for which you get the best support from someone nearby with knowledge about it. So it depends on the problem one has and the support which is "locally" available - not on any features of any operating systems. Yes, i know it is oversimplificated, but .... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:34:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02696 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02685 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA14483; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603071930.MAA14483@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar7.091430est.20481-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 7, 96 09:02:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, or maybe someone else, is there a 'collection' of tools > that everyone can run on thier local systems to generate a > 'standard' output file that we all can email/ftp to some central > depository... Then ask if you want to run them during install, and automatically mail the results. You could do a hardware inventory at the same time (based on dmesg). Like "joining" the Microsoft Network. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:36:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02798 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02793 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04287; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071939.OAA04287@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brandon Gillespie From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when >> > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: >> > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' >> > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." >> >> That logo looks so cheesy though :P > >Sorry for the noise here, but where would we submit 'ad' ideas? I've >done a bit of graphical design work (international publications), and >I have some possible ideas, my favorite is: > > beginning graphic: > > + + > Did you know? > > L I N U X > > is used by hundreds of internet providers world wide... > + + > >(where LINUX is a big snazzy looking logo) > >Clicking on the image will take you to the full page with some more >graphics to the effect of > > > Yet FreeBSD outperforms it in (most? all? majority?) network applications! > > > Recently stanford university performed an independant study > of FreeBSD and Linux. They found that (insert inspiring > numbers and stats here). > > This study has prompted the FreeBSD development team to conduct > further benchmarks, creating a wide array of information on > using not only FreeBSD vs Linux, but also other PC unix systems > such as NetBSD, BSD/OS (BSDi?), [Unixware, SCO?] > > [info on getting and learning more about FreeBSD] > >Etc. > >Actual wording would, of course, be correct and acurate :) > >-Brandon Gillespie- Its always a mistake to give your competitor top billing. Plus you're informing people that its the OS of choice and FreeBSD is the whining challenger. What happened to "stressing the possitives?". One of the reasons that I think that a BSDI vs FreeBSD vs Linux matrix at least looks more objective. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:36:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02833 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA04954; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA or broken. I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design and is designed for VLB. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:43:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03161 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA08951; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603071942.NAA08951@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 7, 96 09:23:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a > PR@freebsd.org list? In the mean time can we please move this discussion to freebsd-chat and keep it out of freebsd-hackers? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:43:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03218 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA05659 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:11:46 PST." <199603071711.JAA22180@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 > >>No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in >>much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code >>you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. >>jbeukema > >True, but its a pain and it doesn't save them so you have to do it every time >until you get a kernel built. And you cant look at a list of devices easily to >check for conflicts before you boot. Usually people boot the generic kernel, it complains about conflicts (or fails to discover some devices), then you reboot and enter the overrides by hand. After getting booted up you put the overrides in /etc/boot.default or build a new kernel. List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMT88ZjxFdSMFRIw5AQGNoAP/UuYOk22Kv/f6NAkOp6AqnGpD7QpSpVxa WnH+bFukf5FxRu6SAx3HnrzVW44cev9uaWWLD/YvAuxJg25dtB22GMijJQx95Emq Zm++rJPm/WNTA7uRX7EsBxub44E+cqYtCwcW42i4P820DT5EjKQ0SMYcXV+wIiAW ZD8DqW4zj94= =UkBg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 11:59:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04062 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04055 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14282; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199603071957.LAA14282@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Jerry Kendall , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:30:41 EST." <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. Nope, large ISPs can have different problems than your typical small installation. I remember BEST internet posting problems related to their installation and I swear than only very few on this list were able to help them out and for a while no one around here had any clue as to their instability problems. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 12:04:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hidrogenio ([200.246.206.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04325 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603072003.MAA04325@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from litio (litio.widesoft.com.br) by hidrogenio ; 7 MAR 96 17:01:27 X-Sender: wsj@200.246.206.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: wsj@widesoft.com.br (Waldemar Scudeller Jr.) Subject: Tty problem with Cyclades Board Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, sends a prompt, calls /usr/bin/login , as usual. Login shows the password prompt, but ignore everthing from terminal to server, without drop the connection. If I write something directly to device while connected, the data goes to terminal screen. I have tested getty: it send the login prompt and ignore everthing from terminal. I verify the stty flags, cables, etc., all looks good to me. Can anyone help me on that? Thanks in advance. Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------------- Waldemar Scudeller Jr. wsj@widesoft.com.br Widesoft Sistemas Ltda. Limeira/SP - Brasil F. +55 194 51 9047 -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 12:56:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07829 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02324; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Printable 'info' docs? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I want something that is nicely laid out, etc... I know I could go install tex and run it on the original texinfo file, but I'd rather not just to print out a stupid document. All I want is a simple postscript file, how can I do it? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:05:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08462 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14792; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072102.OAA14792@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 10:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". > > The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by > 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, > SPRINT, and LDDS. I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO! Hah! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:15:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09019 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09013 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14823; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072110.OAA14823@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information > as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. > > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? Have you ever seen WINICE for Windows95? No, it's not Windows-based, it's text based, but it allows disassembly in several format, along with loading of symbol information for kernel modules (VXD's and VPE's) and all sorts of other nice, nice features. Like the ability to install debug hooks in every one of your drivers so that if you conditionally compile them with debug (be even better if we supported segment ID's and kernel paging...), you extend the debug commands with driver specific table dumping, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:21:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09541 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09518 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-2>; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:20:44 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: dennis Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar7.163237est.20483-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. > > > >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... > >Try to get that from BSDI.... > > Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... > I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try to find an answer.... > > db > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:38:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14900; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 10:18:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] > > The point being, if use of the internet stopped being an experiemental > tool and became one tenth as popular as, say, the web browsers, the > internet would stop being useful as a communications medium. The > bandwidth ain't there, and if it was, the swithcing point bandwidth isn't > there either. The internet isn't a viable option for massive replacement > of our telephone network. It's fine for experimenters, and I've been one > of them, but if it stopped being experimental, and everybody joined in, > this would be a disaster. On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k or higher data rates). I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment proceedings. My answer to the "bandwidth" (actually "backbone bandwidth") argument is that the backbones need bigger pipes. 10Gbit is deployed as an experimental system in several locations already, and TCI is soon going to have 60,000 homes wired for 10Mbit full duplex (they already have half that number and are operating successfully). The "switching point bandwidth" is only a problem if they insist on metering instead of flat-rating on the basis of pipe size. If they want to keep that up, fine: I'll be getting my phone service from TCI as well. I don't care who I pay, as long as it is reasonable. 8-). The real grin is that the phone companies, especially Sprint and MCI, have been basically killing each other for a market that is going to boil away to nothing more than low margin pipe-provider services (I also predicted that two years ago... yes!), with the money going to content providers and data-vaulting services. BTW: look for the thread on "server anonymity/content-addressable networking", and the other thread on "connection to services, not servers/datavaulting for distribution" in both the news groups and the -hackers lists to help me count my kills. So far, I'm 5 for 7. "I are a regular pundit" 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:49:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13537 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25105 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16170 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:11 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03408 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03218 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA05659 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:11:46 PST." <199603071711.JAA22180@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 > >>No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in >>much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code >>you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. >>jbeukema > >True, but its a pain and it doesn't save them so you have to do it every time >until you get a kernel built. And you cant look at a list of devices easily to >check for conflicts before you boot. Usually people boot the generic kernel, it complains about conflicts (or fails to discover some devices), then you reboot and enter the overrides by hand. After getting booted up you put the overrides in /etc/boot.default or build a new kernel. List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMT88ZjxFdSMFRIw5AQGNoAP/UuYOk22Kv/f6NAkOp6AqnGpD7QpSpVxa WnH+bFukf5FxRu6SAx3HnrzVW44cev9uaWWLD/YvAuxJg25dtB22GMijJQx95Emq Zm++rJPm/WNTA7uRX7EsBxub44E+cqYtCwcW42i4P820DT5EjKQ0SMYcXV+wIiAW ZD8DqW4zj94= =UkBg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 13:56:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15309 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15231 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25097 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:29 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16089 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:32:46 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03390 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03161 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA08951; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603071942.NAA08951@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 7, 96 09:23:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a > PR@freebsd.org list? In the mean time can we please move this discussion to freebsd-chat and keep it out of freebsd-hackers? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:00:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16421 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16377 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25081 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:23 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15321 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:29:31 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01856 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01669 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01664 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tukwr-000I8hC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 20:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tuk4h-00001OC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:06 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:06:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:29:50 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > question: which operating system should I install on my PC? IMHO, the answer is pretty straightforward: Install the OS which solves your problem _and_ for which you get the best support from someone nearby with knowledge about it. So it depends on the problem one has and the support which is "locally" available - not on any features of any operating systems. Yes, i know it is oversimplificated, but .... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:04:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17140 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25113 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16229 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:55 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04279 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04062 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04055 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14282; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199603071957.LAA14282@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: Jerry Kendall , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:30:41 EST." <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. Nope, large ISPs can have different problems than your typical small installation. I remember BEST internet posting problems related to their installation and I swear than only very few on this list were able to help them out and for a while no one around here had any clue as to their instability problems. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:06:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17847 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17808 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24718 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:00 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27194 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:43 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03023 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02833 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA04954; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA or broken. I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design and is designed for VLB. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:11:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18831 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18780 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25089 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:27 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15545 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:30:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03012 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02798 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02793 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04287; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071939.OAA04287@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brandon Gillespie From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when >> > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: >> > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' >> > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." >> >> That logo looks so cheesy though :P > >Sorry for the noise here, but where would we submit 'ad' ideas? I've >done a bit of graphical design work (international publications), and >I have some possible ideas, my favorite is: > > beginning graphic: > > + + > Did you know? > > L I N U X > > is used by hundreds of internet providers world wide... > + + > >(where LINUX is a big snazzy looking logo) > >Clicking on the image will take you to the full page with some more >graphics to the effect of > > > Yet FreeBSD outperforms it in (most? all? majority?) network applications! > > > Recently stanford university performed an independant study > of FreeBSD and Linux. They found that (insert inspiring > numbers and stats here). > > This study has prompted the FreeBSD development team to conduct > further benchmarks, creating a wide array of information on > using not only FreeBSD vs Linux, but also other PC unix systems > such as NetBSD, BSD/OS (BSDi?), [Unixware, SCO?] > > [info on getting and learning more about FreeBSD] > >Etc. > >Actual wording would, of course, be correct and acurate :) > >-Brandon Gillespie- Its always a mistake to give your competitor top billing. Plus you're informing people that its the OS of choice and FreeBSD is the whining challenger. What happened to "stressing the possitives?". One of the reasons that I think that a BSDI vs FreeBSD vs Linux matrix at least looks more objective. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:11:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18893 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24925 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:12 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA14948 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:38 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02920 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02696 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02685 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA14483; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603071930.MAA14483@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar7.091430est.20481-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 7, 96 09:02:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, or maybe someone else, is there a 'collection' of tools > that everyone can run on thier local systems to generate a > 'standard' output file that we all can email/ftp to some central > depository... Then ask if you want to run them during install, and automatically mail the results. You could do a hardware inventory at the same time (based on dmesg). Like "joining" the Microsoft Network. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:19:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20009 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19981 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04530; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199603072221.RAA04530@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jerry Kendall From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >> > >> > >> >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with >> >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. >> > >> >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... >> >Try to get that from BSDI.... >> >> Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... >> > > >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try >to find an answer.... Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give it to anyone. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:19:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20049 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20010 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA28974 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:11:38 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16990 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:39:40 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04532 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hidrogenio ([200.246.206.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04325 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603072003.MAA04325@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from litio (litio.widesoft.com.br) by hidrogenio ; 7 MAR 96 17:01:27 X-Sender: wsj@200.246.206.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: wsj@widesoft.com.br (Waldemar Scudeller Jr.) Subject: Tty problem with Cyclades Board X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, sends a prompt, calls /usr/bin/login , as usual. Login shows the password prompt, but ignore everthing from terminal to server, without drop the connection. If I write something directly to device while connected, the data goes to terminal screen. I have tested getty: it send the login prompt and ignore everthing from terminal. I verify the stty flags, cables, etc., all looks good to me. Can anyone help me on that? Thanks in advance. Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------------- Waldemar Scudeller Jr. wsj@widesoft.com.br Widesoft Sistemas Ltda. Limeira/SP - Brasil F. +55 194 51 9047 -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20367 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20332 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id BAA01956 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:19:27 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA10146; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:37 +0300 From: Alexey Pialkin Message-Id: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: infinet.com!macgyver@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (Wilson MacGyver) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:35 +0000 (WET) Cc: freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru In-Reply-To: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 12:11:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > J Wunsch wrote: > > You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands > > lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each > > hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics > > cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. > > > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. > > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... Now i know how to setup some video mode : ioctl(0,SW_VGA13,(char*)0); but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't solve some problems :((( After such mode switch doesn't work Alt+Fx switching - and so i can't debug program :((((( and the second - does anybody work on VESA(2.x will be great !) support ? i think it will be great ... -- Alexey Pialkin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:49:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26868 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26831 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29254 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16597 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:16:04 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07911 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07829 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02324; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Printable 'info' docs? X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I want something that is nicely laid out, etc... I know I could go install tex and run it on the original texinfo file, but I'd rather not just to print out a stupid document. All I want is a simple postscript file, how can I do it? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 14:50:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA27441 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27410 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29315 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:56 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24493 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:23:37 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08536 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08462 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14792; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072102.OAA14792@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 10:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". > > The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by > 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, > SPRINT, and LDDS. I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO! Hah! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 15:03:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01310 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15161; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:53:28 EST." <199603071453.JAA19072@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 Message-ID: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No need to get too incensed about this! :-) Jordqan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 15:20:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06256 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06233 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA12756 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:16 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29530 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:10:14 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA28795 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:58:24 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09173 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:16:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09019 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09013 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14823; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072110.OAA14823@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information > as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. > > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? Have you ever seen WINICE for Windows95? No, it's not Windows-based, it's text based, but it allows disassembly in several format, along with loading of symbol information for kernel modules (VXD's and VPE's) and all sorts of other nice, nice features. Like the ability to install debug hooks in every one of your drivers so that if you conditionally compile them with debug (be even better if we supported segment ID's and kernel paging...), you extend the debug commands with driver specific table dumping, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 15:37:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10332 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10294 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15357; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:51:36 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 Message-ID: <15355.826241708@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > our own product in the other pages. This page would also have an > emphasized message saying something like: "We want FreeBSD to be the > best operating system it can be. If you decide to choose one of the > other OS's (especially Linux) please fill out this brief survey to show > why you made your decision." Then we can have a _brief_ fill-out form, > which I can make a CGI to tabulate and automagically post the results. That's a neat idea. I like it! > Certainly that is the primary focus of the Web page layout I'm > designing. I plan to have lots of cold, hard facts, but those would be > available as hypertext links. So where a primary page would say "FreeBSD > outperforms Linux by 3 to 1 for an Internet server!" there would be a link > to the full study. This way, people can skim through literally dozens of > FreeBSD advantages, and if they are particularly interested or skeptical > about one, they can click on the actual survey, and so our ethical > integrity is maintained. By the way, it would be nice if we had the Excellent. Sounds like you've struck the right balance here. > funding to perform some USABILITY studies head-to-head with Linux, > because I really believe our product is better "out of the box" than most I doubt that we'll get any funding for stuff like this, but you should be able to get a number of people to volunteer time and systems for this if you ask them nicely.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 15:42:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11687 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20450; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: P6 and PCI To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 7, 96 03:01:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does any1 know if ASUS already makes motherboards with an updated chipset ? It's impossible to find a person in that company who understands the problem at all ... Any contacts I can use at ASUS who would be aware of the problem ? > > > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. > > ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following > up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No > need to get too incensed about this! :-) No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the pieces together. Good news - looks like Intel started shipping "Alder" motherboards to some of its VARs. Is there a sense in buying SMP MBs now hoping for working and stable SMP support in FreeBSD by say end of (this :) summer ? :))) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 15:45:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA12518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12507 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15396; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: Terry Lambert , mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:32:12 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 Message-ID: <15394.826242233@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the > fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the > concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous I've been planning this for some time, gated off of both fdisk and label editors becoming more functional than they are. If you have 5 or more drives attached to your system, and many do, the current tools simply fall over. The fix for this problem is known and planned, after which I'll look at breaking out pieces of sysinstall and making them more functional. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:11:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA18619 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18588 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15152; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 8, 96 06:33:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating > >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than > >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one > >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 > >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". > > According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D > (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c > now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it > by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary > bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers > since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA > or broken. > > I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design > and is designed for VLB. If you could turn it off and on on a per-controller basis, you could easily locate a page that would wrap that is in both the "above 16M" and "below 16M" spaces. Then you: 1) Read a sector into the low area 2) Increment every byte 3) Copy it to the high area 4) Read the sector to the high area; if the decode fails, the low area is modified, if not, the high area is modified. You disable bouncing if the high area is modified, and leave it enabled if the low area is. This fixes HiNT chipset based NiCE EISA motherboards, and the three name changes the motherboards went through after it became apparent they didn't conform to the EISA spec. You don't even do the "16M DMA wrap probe" if the machine has less than 16M. Problem solved. Throuw out the version code and the ISA/VLB distinction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:12:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19029 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15551; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 (PST) To: Eric Varsanyi cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 MST." <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 Message-ID: <15549.826243943@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. No need to apologise at all. If someone here either intentionally or inadvertantly slams BSD/OS in an undeserved way then I, for one, would be more than happy to see it corrected. I'm rooting for friendlier relations between the various *BSD groups, not less, and the freedom to correct stated innaccuracies without political overtones is a necessary component of that. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:15:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19550 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19545 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15567; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Printable 'info' docs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:59:11 MST." <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 Message-ID: <15565.826244134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I > want something that is nicely laid out, etc... Look for something called texi2roff - it'll convert it to an MS or ME macro document. I don't have a URL, but I'm sure an ALTA VISTA search will turn it up in nothing flat.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:24:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19912 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19906 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07771; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA31297; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Act Now ! In-Reply-To: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] [My comments on Voice On Net deleted] > On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone > network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching > so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather > than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are > puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k > or higher data rates). Actually, several years ago, when it was still a telecommunications company, ITT tried real hard to make a voice switch based upon a packet switching core. It was an incredible failure, and took ITT's reputation down into the toilet with it. Circuit switching, when you have a steady data load (like voice has) is far, far cheaper than any technology that tries to adjust itself to user demand. Cheaper in terms of hardware for the telephone companies, and that's why it costs more for ISDN or Frame Relay that your regular home phone. Maybe this is changing, maybe even right now, but it's true at this particular point in time. > > I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the > phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based > communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather > than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment > proceedings. Actually, like I said originally, if only 10 percent of _just hackers_ began making all their calls via the internet, the internet would bow under the traffic strain. On top of this, the technology that Amancio and company is using will not support high speed modems. Nearly all existing long distance networks will support high speed modems (I know this because I was tasked to test this assertion several years ago). I can't completely understand why, in the face of this fairly obvious fact, why the big phone companies are reacting. I suspect they're concerned somewhat with appearances, showing they're not the only show in town, which they certainly aren't anymore. > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:32:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA20303 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20293 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15658; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 18:41:00 EST." <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 Message-ID: <15656.826245020@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the > pieces together. Yes, but it's *ASUS* that should fix your motherboards. They knew about the problem and they sold it to you anyway for big bucks - that should be good for at least a couple of arrows in their backs, yes? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:51:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21136 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA13974 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:53 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA00501 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:40:22 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07040 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:12:06 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09596 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09541 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09518 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-2>; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:20:44 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: dennis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar7.163237est.20483-2@janus.border.com> X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. > > > >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... > >Try to get that from BSDI.... > > Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... > I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try to find an answer.... > > db > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 16:55:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21341 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21335 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:55:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id DAA01236 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:51:42 +0300 Received: from lambert.org (uucp@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id DAA29135; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:38:18 +0300 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA00870; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:16 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15166; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:14:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080014.RAA15166@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: root@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (Alexey Pialkin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:14:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: infinet.com!macgyver@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru In-Reply-To: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 01:12:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. > > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... > > Now i know how to setup some video mode : > ioctl(0,SW_VGA13,(char*)0); > > but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't solve some problems :((( After such mode switch > doesn't work Alt+Fx switching - and so i can't debug program :((((( > and the second - does anybody work on VESA(2.x will be great !) support ? > i think it will be great ... The console drive can only support generic video modes, short of a VM86() mechanism to enable calls to the video BIOS INT 10 mode switch. Note that many DRAM implementations "cheap out" on vertical blank interrupts, and so if you use the INT 10 calls, all interrupts are disabled until the INT 10 call completes (the correct way would be to use the local-to-the-card vertical blank interrupt as a clock and not disable other cards ability to generate interrupts). Paradise and older ATI cards are known offenders. Really, you want to move the X DDX into the kernel and build a generic VGS/SVGA/other mode set on top of that (and then make X use it). That way, the console driver would never find itself in a mode it couldn't switch out of or back into. It's the X server's use of promiscuous mode changes (ie: without informing the console driver host to get out or back) that prevents you from debugging kernel panics that occur while you are running X. Because the mode switch requires sending a command to the X server to restore the console state, and the kernel is panic'ed so the X server can't run and therefore can't respond to the request, you are pretty much screwed. If you wanted to do this yourself, you'd have to do the message handling the X server does for console mode switch, which would fix your virtual console switch problems (at least until the first time your machine got a panic). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:05:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA22006 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22001 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA15327; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080100.SAA15327@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 07:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I moved my reply to "Imminent overload of the Internet Predicted" to chat. You can follow it there, if you follow such things. Suffice it to say, Chuck is wrong: it is economically inevitable that old-stlye call unit charging must die. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:20:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23063 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26174 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09303 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18105 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:46 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080007.BAA18105@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:45 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 01:12:35 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Alexey Pialkin wrote: > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... X does even run on my 386/16 with 5 MB. As long as you only want the functionality you've been describing, who tells you that you gotta start ten xterms, a window manager, a Netscape, and an Emacs? The Xserver itself and the application you're going to develop don't eat up that much memory. If you're going to use a full-screen DGA application, you might even omit the window manager. For the extra megabyte you're paying, you get support for several dozens of graphics cards. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:21:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23172 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23131 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26170; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:19 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09302; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18086; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080004.BAA18086@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: macgyver@infinet.com (Wilson MacGyver) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 12:11:04 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. You will have to reinvent about this number of lines: j@uriah 99% pwd /usr/othersrc/XFree86/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86 j@uriah 100% find accel {bdm2,hga2,mono,vga256}/drivers -type f \ -name '*.[ch]' | xargs wc -l | \ awk '{count += $1;} END {printf "Total: %d lines.\n", count}' Total: 334924 lines. ... for getting the same amount of hardware supported as XFree86(tm) does support by now. Maybe i've forgotten something, but this should give you a rough estimation about the hardware-dependent code. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:22:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23273 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23217 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26235 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09342 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id CAA18869 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:55 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080108.CAA18869@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:54 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? . a simple line editor with at least 10 lines of history . repeat the last `print' command by pressing enter only . inb/outb builtins . a `kill' command -- i always forget about the usage of `psignal()', and the source code is usually not available in DDB... :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:22:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23356 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23213 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26230 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09341 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18580 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080045.BAA18580@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603070907.KAA16982@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:04:17 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > RTFM :-) > > Where? > That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are > written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any > documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). The question was about new man pages, that's why -mdoc. The -man macros are rather limited in their features. That's why the output created by them is called ``people's pages''. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:22:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23226 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26187; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09314; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18489; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080038.BAA18489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: help needed To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie (Fergal Lane) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9603071537.AA27024@odyssey.ucc.ie> from "Fergal Lane" at Mar 7, 96 03:37:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Fergal Lane wrote: > It gets as far as : > > npx0 on motherboard > npx0 : INT 16 interface > WARNING : / was not properly dismounted > > and then it hangs. > We have tried using the 2.1 fixit and boot floppies without > success. They can't seem to mount the disk. Have you tried fsck'ing it from the fixit floppy? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:23:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23446 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23408 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26206; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09319; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18133; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:58 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080012.BAA18133@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 7, 96 08:16:40 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Ron G. Minnich wrote: > So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can > learn how to use it? There's a simple test program called `dga' in the source tree. I seem to remember that there've been yet another thing somebody was hacking on, but i forgot what it's been. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 17:37:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24151 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24144 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.gordian.com (hermes.gordian.com [192.73.220.111]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.4/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA00777 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by hermes.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id RAA18436; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603080136.RAA18436@hermes.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6 possible? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is it possible to make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6, or is this still broken? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:00:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA25462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25457 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA13621; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:59:52 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199603080159.RAA13621@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:59:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mrl@teleport.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 7, 96 09:32:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same > > as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. > > I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the > fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the > concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous > command-line fdisk utilities. I thought somebody had done a code drop of > this into a stand-alone program some time ago. What ever happened to > that? I wouldn't mind if /stand/sysinstall was hacked to allow > fdisk/partition/formatting WITHOUT having to pretend we are reinstalling > the operating system. If it is a standalone, I suggest "format" as the > name, since that meshes with what SunOS/Solaris uses. Comments??? I > think this is _very_ important for the next release, and not > very difficult to do. I'm in very strong agreement with this sentiment!! The fact that MS-DOS has a better fdisk program than FreeBSD is shameful. While we're at it, how about integrating the booteasy functionality? Personally, I miss Linux's LILO very much. Well, actually I still use it instead of booteasy. OK, it's easy to *ask* for things... :-) -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:15:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26314 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26286 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA07938; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:11:21 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199603080211.NAA07938@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:11:21 +1100 (EST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, macgyver@infinet.com In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 7, 96 08:16:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can >learn how to use it? I've put a copy of the source for the "dga" test program at: ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.1.2D/dga.tgz Also, there is some very basic documentation in: ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/Xfree86/3.1.2D/doc/README.DGA David From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:18:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26648 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26642 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01025 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:40 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22709 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26954 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26868 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26831 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29254 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16597 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:16:04 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07911 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07829 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02324; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Printable 'info' docs? X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I want something that is nicely laid out, etc... I know I could go install tex and run it on the original texinfo file, but I'd rather not just to print out a stupid document. All I want is a simple postscript file, how can I do it? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:19:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26697 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26692 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01162 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:25 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21365 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:05:51 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19649 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19550 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19545 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15567; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Printable 'info' docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:59:11 MST." <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 Message-Id: <15565.826244134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I > want something that is nicely laid out, etc... Look for something called texi2roff - it'll convert it to an MS or ME macro document. I don't have a URL, but I'm sure an ALTA VISTA search will turn it up in nothing flat.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:19:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26747 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26741 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01170 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:26 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21530 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19487 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19029 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15551; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 (PST) To: Eric Varsanyi Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 MST." <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 Message-Id: <15549.826243943@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. No need to apologise at all. If someone here either intentionally or inadvertantly slams BSD/OS in an undeserved way then I, for one, would be more than happy to see it corrected. I'm rooting for friendlier relations between the various *BSD groups, not less, and the freedom to correct stated innaccuracies without political overtones is a necessary component of that. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:20:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26966 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26819 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01057 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:46 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23533 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:01:50 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20353 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20049 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20010 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA28974 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:11:38 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16990 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:39:40 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04532 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hidrogenio ([200.246.206.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04325 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603072003.MAA04325@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from litio (litio.widesoft.com.br) by hidrogenio ; 7 MAR 96 17:01:27 X-Sender: wsj@200.246.206.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: wsj@widesoft.com.br (Waldemar Scudeller Jr.) Subject: Tty problem with Cyclades Board X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, sends a prompt, calls /usr/bin/login , as usual. Login shows the password prompt, but ignore everthing from terminal to server, without drop the connection. If I write something directly to device while connected, the data goes to terminal screen. I have tested getty: it send the login prompt and ignore everthing from terminal. I verify the stty flags, cables, etc., all looks good to me. Can anyone help me on that? Thanks in advance. Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------------- Waldemar Scudeller Jr. wsj@widesoft.com.br Widesoft Sistemas Ltda. Limeira/SP - Brasil F. +55 194 51 9047 -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:20:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27034 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27022 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01017 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22544 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:56:10 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20256 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20009 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19981 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04530; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199603072221.RAA04530@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jerry Kendall From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >> > >> > >> >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with >> >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. >> > >> >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... >> >Try to get that from BSDI.... >> >> Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... >> > > >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try >to find an answer.... Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give it to anyone. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:20:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27061 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27050 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01146 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:21 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21101 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:03:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13822 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13537 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25105 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16170 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:11 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03408 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03218 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA05659 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:11:46 PST." <199603071711.JAA22180@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 > >>No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in >>much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code >>you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. >>jbeukema > >True, but its a pain and it doesn't save them so you have to do it every time >until you get a kernel built. And you cant look at a list of devices easily to >check for conflicts before you boot. Usually people boot the generic kernel, it complains about conflicts (or fails to discover some devices), then you reboot and enter the overrides by hand. After getting booted up you put the overrides in /etc/boot.default or build a new kernel. List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMT88ZjxFdSMFRIw5AQGNoAP/UuYOk22Kv/f6NAkOp6AqnGpD7QpSpVxa WnH+bFukf5FxRu6SAx3HnrzVW44cev9uaWWLD/YvAuxJg25dtB22GMijJQx95Emq Zm++rJPm/WNTA7uRX7EsBxub44E+cqYtCwcW42i4P820DT5EjKQ0SMYcXV+wIiAW ZD8DqW4zj94= =UkBg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:22:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27266 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27258 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01114 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:13 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20396 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15495 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15309 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15231 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25097 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:29 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16089 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:32:46 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03390 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03161 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA08951; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603071942.NAA08951@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 7, 96 09:23:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a > PR@freebsd.org list? In the mean time can we please move this discussion to freebsd-chat and keep it out of freebsd-hackers? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:24:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27439 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01210 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:36 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21559 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:26 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20356 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA20303 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20293 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15658; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 18:41:00 EST." <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 Message-Id: <15656.826245020@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the > pieces together. Yes, but it's *ASUS* that should fix your motherboards. They knew about the problem and they sold it to you anyway for big bucks - that should be good for at least a couple of arrows in their backs, yes? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:25:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27512 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27507 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01033 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:42 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22742 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:30 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27566 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA27441 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27410 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29315 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:56 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24493 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:23:37 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08536 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08462 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14792; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072102.OAA14792@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 10:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". > > The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by > 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, > SPRINT, and LDDS. I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO! Hah! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:25:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27551 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27545 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01106 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:06 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20204 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:55:41 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01441 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01310 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15161; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:53:28 EST." <199603071453.JAA19072@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 Message-Id: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No need to get too incensed about this! :-) Jordqan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:26:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27636 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27628 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01049 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23495 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:01:31 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16602 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16421 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16377 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25081 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:23 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15321 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:29:31 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01856 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01669 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01664 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tukwr-000I8hC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 20:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tuk4h-00001OC; Thu, 7 Mar 96 19:06 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:06:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603070933.KAA18914@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:29:50 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Greg Lehey: > The current FreeBSD/Linux comparison is only part of a larger > question: which operating system should I install on my PC? IMHO, the answer is pretty straightforward: Install the OS which solves your problem _and_ for which you get the best support from someone nearby with knowledge about it. So it depends on the problem one has and the support which is "locally" available - not on any features of any operating systems. Yes, i know it is oversimplificated, but .... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:27:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27681 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27668 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01178 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:28 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24318 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:26 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11824 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11687 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20450; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: P6 and PCI To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 7, 96 03:01:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does any1 know if ASUS already makes motherboards with an updated chipset ? It's impossible to find a person in that company who understands the problem at all ... Any contacts I can use at ASUS who would be aware of the problem ? > > > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. > > ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following > up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No > need to get too incensed about this! :-) No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the pieces together. Good news - looks like Intel started shipping "Alder" motherboards to some of its VARs. Is there a sense in buying SMP MBs now hoping for working and stable SMP support in FreeBSD by say end of (this :) summer ? :))) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:27:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27738 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27721 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01202 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:34 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24468 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:55 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21280 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21136 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA13974 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:51:53 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA00501 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:40:22 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07040 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:12:06 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09596 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09541 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09518 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-2>; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:20:44 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: dennis Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar7.163237est.20483-2@janus.border.com> X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. > > > >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... > >Try to get that from BSDI.... > > Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... > I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try to find an answer.... > > db > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:29:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27959 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27932 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01122 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:14 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20554 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:59:18 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17483 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17140 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25113 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16229 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:55 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04279 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04062 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04055 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14282; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199603071957.LAA14282@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: Jerry Kendall , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:30:41 EST." <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. Nope, large ISPs can have different problems than your typical small installation. I remember BEST internet posting problems related to their installation and I swear than only very few on this list were able to help them out and for a while no one around here had any clue as to their instability problems. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:30:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28187 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28146 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01186 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24342 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:07 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11351 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10332 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10294 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15357; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby Cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:51:36 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 Message-Id: <15355.826241708@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > our own product in the other pages. This page would also have an > emphasized message saying something like: "We want FreeBSD to be the > best operating system it can be. If you decide to choose one of the > other OS's (especially Linux) please fill out this brief survey to show > why you made your decision." Then we can have a _brief_ fill-out form, > which I can make a CGI to tabulate and automagically post the results. That's a neat idea. I like it! > Certainly that is the primary focus of the Web page layout I'm > designing. I plan to have lots of cold, hard facts, but those would be > available as hypertext links. So where a primary page would say "FreeBSD > outperforms Linux by 3 to 1 for an Internet server!" there would be a link > to the full study. This way, people can skim through literally dozens of > FreeBSD advantages, and if they are particularly interested or skeptical > about one, they can click on the actual survey, and so our ethical > integrity is maintained. By the way, it would be nice if we had the Excellent. Sounds like you've struck the right balance here. > funding to perform some USABILITY studies head-to-head with Linux, > because I really believe our product is better "out of the box" than most I doubt that we'll get any funding for stuff like this, but you should be able to get a number of people to volunteer time and systems for this if you ask them nicely.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:31:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28264 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28245 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01226 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21654 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:41 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22075 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA22006 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22001 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA15327; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080100.SAA15327@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 07:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I moved my reply to "Imminent overload of the Internet Predicted" to chat. You can follow it there, if you follow such things. Suffice it to say, Chuck is wrong: it is economically inevitable that old-stlye call unit charging must die. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:32:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28535 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28525 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01130 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:16 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20818 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:01:01 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18015 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:07:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17847 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17808 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24718 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:00 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27194 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:43 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03023 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02833 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA04954; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA or broken. I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design and is designed for VLB. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:33:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28573 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28559 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01081 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:58 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24264 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:06:56 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12655 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA12518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12507 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15396; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby Cc: Terry Lambert , mrl@teleport.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:32:12 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 Message-Id: <15394.826242233@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the > fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the > concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous I've been planning this for some time, gated off of both fdisk and label editors becoming more functional than they are. If you have 5 or more drives attached to your system, and many do, the current tools simply fall over. The fix for this problem is known and planned, after which I'll look at breaking out pieces of sysinstall and making them more functional. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:35:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28774 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28751 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01154 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:22 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21345 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:05:42 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19133 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18831 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18780 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25089 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:27 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15545 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:30:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03012 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02798 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02793 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04287; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071939.OAA04287@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brandon Gillespie From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when >> > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: >> > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' >> > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." >> >> That logo looks so cheesy though :P > >Sorry for the noise here, but where would we submit 'ad' ideas? I've >done a bit of graphical design work (international publications), and >I have some possible ideas, my favorite is: > > beginning graphic: > > + + > Did you know? > > L I N U X > > is used by hundreds of internet providers world wide... > + + > >(where LINUX is a big snazzy looking logo) > >Clicking on the image will take you to the full page with some more >graphics to the effect of > > > Yet FreeBSD outperforms it in (most? all? majority?) network applications! > > > Recently stanford university performed an independant study > of FreeBSD and Linux. They found that (insert inspiring > numbers and stats here). > > This study has prompted the FreeBSD development team to conduct > further benchmarks, creating a wide array of information on > using not only FreeBSD vs Linux, but also other PC unix systems > such as NetBSD, BSD/OS (BSDi?), [Unixware, SCO?] > > [info on getting and learning more about FreeBSD] > >Etc. > >Actual wording would, of course, be correct and acurate :) > >-Brandon Gillespie- Its always a mistake to give your competitor top billing. Plus you're informing people that its the OS of choice and FreeBSD is the whining challenger. What happened to "stressing the possitives?". One of the reasons that I think that a BSDI vs FreeBSD vs Linux matrix at least looks more objective. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:35:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28832 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28819 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01073 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:51 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24041 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:05:39 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08273 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06256 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06233 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA12756 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:20:16 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29530 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:10:14 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA28795 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:58:24 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09173 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:16:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA09019 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09013 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14823; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072110.OAA14823@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a > similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating > some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was > exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information > as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. > > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? Have you ever seen WINICE for Windows95? No, it's not Windows-based, it's text based, but it allows disassembly in several format, along with loading of symbol information for kernel modules (VXD's and VPE's) and all sorts of other nice, nice features. Like the ability to install debug hooks in every one of your drivers so that if you conditionally compile them with debug (be even better if we supported segment ID's and kernel paging...), you extend the debug commands with driver specific table dumping, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:39:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29158 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29151 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01041 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23320 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:00:47 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19138 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18893 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24925 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:12 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA14948 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:38 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02920 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02696 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02685 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA14483; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603071930.MAA14483@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Mar7.091430est.20481-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 7, 96 09:02:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, or maybe someone else, is there a 'collection' of tools > that everyone can run on thier local systems to generate a > 'standard' output file that we all can email/ftp to some central > depository... Then ask if you want to run them during install, and automatically mail the results. You could do a hardware inventory at the same time (based on dmesg). Like "joining" the Microsoft Network. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:39:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29245 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29232 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01065 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:48 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23834 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:04:16 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11438 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:40:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14900; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 10:18:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] > > The point being, if use of the internet stopped being an experiemental > tool and became one tenth as popular as, say, the web browsers, the > internet would stop being useful as a communications medium. The > bandwidth ain't there, and if it was, the swithcing point bandwidth isn't > there either. The internet isn't a viable option for massive replacement > of our telephone network. It's fine for experimenters, and I've been one > of them, but if it stopped being experimental, and everybody joined in, > this would be a disaster. On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k or higher data rates). I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment proceedings. My answer to the "bandwidth" (actually "backbone bandwidth") argument is that the backbones need bigger pipes. 10Gbit is deployed as an experimental system in several locations already, and TCI is soon going to have 60,000 homes wired for 10Mbit full duplex (they already have half that number and are operating successfully). The "switching point bandwidth" is only a problem if they insist on metering instead of flat-rating on the basis of pipe size. If they want to keep that up, fine: I'll be getting my phone service from TCI as well. I don't care who I pay, as long as it is reasonable. 8-). The real grin is that the phone companies, especially Sprint and MCI, have been basically killing each other for a market that is going to boil away to nothing more than low margin pipe-provider services (I also predicted that two years ago... yes!), with the money going to content providers and data-vaulting services. BTW: look for the thread on "server anonymity/content-addressable networking", and the other thread on "connection to services, not servers/datavaulting for distribution" in both the news groups and the -hackers lists to help me count my kills. So far, I'm 5 for 7. "I are a regular pundit" 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:40:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29502 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29494 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01194 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24376 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:19 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20045 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19912 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19906 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07771; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA31297; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Act Now ! In-Reply-To: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] [My comments on Voice On Net deleted] > On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone > network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching > so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather > than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are > puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k > or higher data rates). Actually, several years ago, when it was still a telecommunications company, ITT tried real hard to make a voice switch based upon a packet switching core. It was an incredible failure, and took ITT's reputation down into the toilet with it. Circuit switching, when you have a steady data load (like voice has) is far, far cheaper than any technology that tries to adjust itself to user demand. Cheaper in terms of hardware for the telephone companies, and that's why it costs more for ISDN or Frame Relay that your regular home phone. Maybe this is changing, maybe even right now, but it's true at this particular point in time. > > I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the > phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based > communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather > than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment > proceedings. Actually, like I said originally, if only 10 percent of _just hackers_ began making all their calls via the internet, the internet would bow under the traffic strain. On top of this, the technology that Amancio and company is using will not support high speed modems. Nearly all existing long distance networks will support high speed modems (I know this because I was tasked to test this assertion several years ago). I can't completely understand why, in the face of this fairly obvious fact, why the big phone companies are reacting. I suspect they're concerned somewhat with appearances, showing they're not the only show in town, which they certainly aren't anymore. > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:41:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29551 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29546 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01218 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:37 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21587 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:56 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19374 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA18619 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18588 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15152; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 8, 96 06:33:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating > >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than > >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one > >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 > >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". > > According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D > (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c > now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it > by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary > bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers > since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA > or broken. > > I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design > and is designed for VLB. If you could turn it off and on on a per-controller basis, you could easily locate a page that would wrap that is in both the "above 16M" and "below 16M" spaces. Then you: 1) Read a sector into the low area 2) Increment every byte 3) Copy it to the high area 4) Read the sector to the high area; if the decode fails, the low area is modified, if not, the high area is modified. You disable bouncing if the high area is modified, and leave it enabled if the low area is. This fixes HiNT chipset based NiCE EISA motherboards, and the three name changes the motherboards went through after it became apparent they didn't conform to the EISA spec. You don't even do the "16M DMA wrap probe" if the machine has less than 16M. Problem solved. Throuw out the version code and the ISA/VLB distinction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 18:50:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA00299 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00291 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:50:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id FAA02204 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:46:51 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG (uucp@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id FAA21867; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:46:03 +0300 Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA02143; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:36:41 +0300 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01138 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:19 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21011 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:02:21 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20519 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20367 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20332 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id BAA01956 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:19:27 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA10146; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:37 +0300 From: Alexey Pialkin Message-Id: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: infinet.com!macgyver@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (Wilson MacGyver) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:35 +0000 (WET) Cc: freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru In-Reply-To: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 12:11:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > J Wunsch wrote: > > You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands > > lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each > > hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics > > cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. > > > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. > > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... Now i know how to setup some video mode : ioctl(0,SW_VGA13,(char*)0); but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't solve some problems :((( After such mode switch doesn't work Alt+Fx switching - and so i can't debug program :((((( and the second - does anybody work on VESA(2.x will be great !) support ? i think it will be great ... -- Alexey Pialkin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:15:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA02769 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA02757 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:15:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id GAA02421 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:12:43 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG (uucp@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA29874; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:11:19 +0300 Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA02358; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:04:18 +0300 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01526 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:43:26 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22298 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:14:31 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21435 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21341 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21335 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:55:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id DAA01236 for freebsd.org!hackers; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:51:42 +0300 Received: from lambert.org (uucp@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id DAA29135; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:38:18 +0300 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA00870; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:16 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15166; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:14:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080014.RAA15166@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: root@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (Alexey Pialkin) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:14:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: infinet.com!macgyver@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, freebsd.org!hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru, uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru In-Reply-To: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 01:12:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. > > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... > > Now i know how to setup some video mode : > ioctl(0,SW_VGA13,(char*)0); > > but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't solve some problems :((( After such mode switch > doesn't work Alt+Fx switching - and so i can't debug program :((((( > and the second - does anybody work on VESA(2.x will be great !) support ? > i think it will be great ... The console drive can only support generic video modes, short of a VM86() mechanism to enable calls to the video BIOS INT 10 mode switch. Note that many DRAM implementations "cheap out" on vertical blank interrupts, and so if you use the INT 10 calls, all interrupts are disabled until the INT 10 call completes (the correct way would be to use the local-to-the-card vertical blank interrupt as a clock and not disable other cards ability to generate interrupts). Paradise and older ATI cards are known offenders. Really, you want to move the X DDX into the kernel and build a generic VGS/SVGA/other mode set on top of that (and then make X use it). That way, the console driver would never find itself in a mode it couldn't switch out of or back into. It's the X server's use of promiscuous mode changes (ie: without informing the console driver host to get out or back) that prevents you from debugging kernel panics that occur while you are running X. Because the mode switch requires sending a command to the X server to restore the console state, and the kernel is panic'ed so the X server can't run and therefore can't respond to the request, you are pretty much screwed. If you wanted to do this yourself, you'd have to do the message handling the X server does for console mode switch, which would fix your virtual console switch problems (at least until the first time your machine got a panic). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:19:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03101 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01786 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27280 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:01:49 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24192 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24151 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24144 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.gordian.com (hermes.gordian.com [192.73.220.111]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.4/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA00777 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by hermes.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id RAA18436; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603080136.RAA18436@hermes.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6 possible? X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is it possible to make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6, or is this still broken? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:19:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03147 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01802 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27834 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:06:14 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23404 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23273 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23217 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26235 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09342 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id CAA18869 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:55 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080108.CAA18869@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:54 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? . a simple line editor with at least 10 lines of history . repeat the last `print' command by pressing enter only . inb/outb builtins . a `kill' command -- i always forget about the usage of `psignal()', and the source code is usually not available in DDB... :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:19:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03216 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03198 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01810 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:40 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA02853 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:07:25 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23478 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23356 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23213 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26230 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09341 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18580 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080045.BAA18580@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603070907.KAA16982@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:04:17 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > RTFM :-) > > Where? > That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are > written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any > documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). The question was about new man pages, that's why -mdoc. The -man macros are rather limited in their features. That's why the output created by them is called ``people's pages''. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:19:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03254 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03235 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01778 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA02144 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:01:22 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23480 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23226 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26187; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09314; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18489; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080038.BAA18489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: help needed To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie (Fergal Lane) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9603071537.AA27024@odyssey.ucc.ie> from "Fergal Lane" at Mar 7, 96 03:37:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Fergal Lane wrote: > It gets as far as : > > npx0 on motherboard > npx0 : INT 16 interface > WARNING : / was not properly dismounted > > and then it hangs. > We have tried using the 2.1 fixit and boot floppies without > success. They can't seem to mount the disk. Have you tried fsck'ing it from the fixit floppy? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:21:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03569 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03562 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01794 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:35 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27531 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:03:02 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23604 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23446 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23408 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26206; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09319; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18133; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:58 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080012.BAA18133@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 7, 96 08:16:40 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Ron G. Minnich wrote: > So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can > learn how to use it? There's a simple test program called `dga' in the source tree. I seem to remember that there've been yet another thing somebody was hacking on, but i forgot what it's been. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:23:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03662 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03657 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA17367 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:01 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA17274; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199603080319.TAA17274@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Wilson MacGyver cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:11:04 EST." <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> Wilson MacGyver said: > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. > Hi, Your best bet is to talk to the XFree86 folks about their DGA extensions. The reason for using DGA is to initialize the card properly and to set the given resolution. The wrapper to get into DGA mode is very simple . Once you are in DGA mode you can do whatever you want with the card. The linux svgalib is very very very bad idea and if you really need it we can always port it for you. I have ported it the linux svgalib and always end up deleting from my system. I have a little program called tv which uses DGA if you like I can send you. You shall post on freebsd-multimedia or the xfree86 mailing mostly because the concentration of talents is there and this is a high bandwith mailing lists which your plea for help can get easily lost. Best Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:33:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04543 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (tip-mp19-ncs-14.Stanford.EDU [36.173.1.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04530 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lightning.Stanford.EDU (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00196; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:56 -0800 Message-ID: <313FAA65.41C67EA6@wireless.stanford.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:32:53 -0800 From: Bora Akyol Organization: Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc CC: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: IDE Busmaster SUpport in FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Is there any support for the BUSMASTER features of the Triton chipset in FreeBSD? Also while I am asking support questions I sure would appreciate it if somebody can port the Linux MediaVision Jazz 16 support to the FreeBSD kernel. Thanks Bora From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:49:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA05758 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05744 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:48:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01942 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:40:34 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA28082 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:07:42 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23221 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23063 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26174 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09303 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18105 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:46 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080007.BAA18105@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:45 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 01:12:35 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Alexey Pialkin wrote: > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... X does even run on my 386/16 with 5 MB. As long as you only want the functionality you've been describing, who tells you that you gotta start ten xterms, a window manager, a Netscape, and an Emacs? The Xserver itself and the application you're going to develop don't eat up that much memory. If you're going to use a full-screen DGA application, you might even omit the window manager. For the extra megabyte you're paying, you get support for several dozens of graphics cards. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 19:49:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA05783 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05757 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01926 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:40:30 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA03073 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:07 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23312 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23172 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23131 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26170; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:19 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09302; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18086; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080004.BAA18086@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: macgyver@infinet.com (Wilson MacGyver) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 12:11:04 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. You will have to reinvent about this number of lines: j@uriah 99% pwd /usr/othersrc/XFree86/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86 j@uriah 100% find accel {bdm2,hga2,mono,vga256}/drivers -type f \ -name '*.[ch]' | xargs wc -l | \ awk '{count += $1;} END {printf "Total: %d lines.\n", count}' Total: 334924 lines. ... for getting the same amount of hardware supported as XFree86(tm) does support by now. Maybe i've forgotten something, but this should give you a rough estimation about the hardware-dependent code. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 20:06:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA07197 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from skat.usc.edu (grashiya@skat.usc.edu [128.125.253.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07190 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grashiya@localhost) by skat.usc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/usc) id UAA27728 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Giritharan Rashiyamany Message-Id: <199603080406.UAA27728@skat.usc.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help - Attach a H/D Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have an extra H/D which has linux, and want to attach it to the system running FreeBSD 2.1R so that I can get to boot either (without having to reinstall). The Linux H/D has a DOS partition and the FreeBSD H/D doesn't. Appreciate any advice, Thanks and Regards, RG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 20:31:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA08910 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08904 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA19661 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:27:32 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 8 Mar 96 07:27:31 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.4/8.7.3) id HAA00400; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:23:52 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199603080423.HAA00400@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: Should we get ATAPI from NetBSD? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:23:52 +0300 (MSK) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at "Mar 6, 96 09:08:30 pm" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > 3) Doesn't work with Workman CD audio player. Apparently the IOCTLs in > the FreeBSD port only work with the SCSI CD-ROM driver. At any rate, I No, they work for Mitsumi CD driver at least too. There is only SCSI ioctls exists, not other ones. If Workman work with SCSI and not work with another CD driver - it is CD driver fault. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 20:36:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA09163 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:36:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.78]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09060 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:34:39 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA08833; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:03:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199603080103.RAA08833@dtr.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:03:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603072102.OAA14792@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 7, 96 02:02:00 pm Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [ ... ] > > The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". > > > > The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by > > 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, > > SPRINT, and LDDS. > I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO! Hah! Someone oughtta slap 'em back with a class-action restraint-of-trade suit. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 21:09:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA11017 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11012 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.5/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id UAA01805; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:56:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:56:38 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Eric Varsanyi , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <15549.826243943@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm rooting for friendlier relations between the various *BSD groups, > not less, and the freedom to correct stated innaccuracies without > political overtones is a necessary component of that. > Jordan Jordan in '96! :-) == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 21:12:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA11313 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11308 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:12:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA21740; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:12:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:12:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Jake Hamby , Brandon Gillespie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! In-Reply-To: <17182.826156574@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Good idea! What kind of benchmarks should we tell people to run, though? > > I'd say lmbench and the BYTE benchmarks, *if* you can get them to run. I posted another benchmark to -current a couple of days ago, but I haven't had time to muck with it. Here's the URL again: http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/HINT/ Happy Trails, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 21:31:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA12457 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12448 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tuulR-0008t1C; Thu, 7 Mar 96 21:30 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: ISDN To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:30:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199603080319.TAA03266@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Mar 7, 96 07:19:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > From: Terry Lambert > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 (MST) > Subject: Re: Act Now ! > > (this is also why the phone comapnies are > puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k > or higher data rates). Obviously you don't live in US West or GTE territory. GTE is starting to come around, but getting ISDN in US West is still, apparently, quite a battle. -- Alan Batie ______ Freedom for me to be and do batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / only what *you* approve of +1 503 452-0960 \ / is no freedom at all. DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 7 21:48:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA13729 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13723 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA02293 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:47:25 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 8 Mar 96 08:47:24 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.4/8.7.3) id IAA00449; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:41:25 +0300 (MSK) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <15565.826244134@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <15565.826244134@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:41:24 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.42 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Printable 'info' docs? Lines: 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Printable 'info' docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:59:11 MST." <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R ^^^^^^ WOW! Jordan, do you plan to speak russian now? :-) X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I > want something that is nicely laid out, etc... Look for something called texi2roff - it'll convert it to an MS or ME macro document. I don't have a URL, but I'm sure an ALTA VISTA search will turn it up in nothing flat.. Jordan -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:07:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA29673 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA29664 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:07:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id DAA24284 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:07:41 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA04439 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:40:16 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15828 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:10:52 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25501 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA25462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25457 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA13621; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:59:52 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199603080159.RAA13621@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:59:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mrl@teleport.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 7, 96 09:32:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same > > as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. > > I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the > fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the > concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous > command-line fdisk utilities. I thought somebody had done a code drop of > this into a stand-alone program some time ago. What ever happened to > that? I wouldn't mind if /stand/sysinstall was hacked to allow > fdisk/partition/formatting WITHOUT having to pretend we are reinstalling > the operating system. If it is a standalone, I suggest "format" as the > name, since that meshes with what SunOS/Solaris uses. Comments??? I > think this is _very_ important for the next release, and not > very difficult to do. I'm in very strong agreement with this sentiment!! The fact that MS-DOS has a better fdisk program than FreeBSD is shameful. While we're at it, how about integrating the booteasy functionality? Personally, I miss Linux's LILO very much. Well, actually I still use it instead of booteasy. OK, it's easy to *ask* for things... :-) -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:10:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA29969 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA29955 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) id DAA20801; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:10:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:10:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603081110.DAA20801@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 100BaseT multi-channel network cards From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk (I don't want to span, but I haven't gotten any replies yet.) What fast twin-channel network cards are supported? I tried to look it up in the FAQ and handbook but the handbook's section is empty and the FAQ just tells me the chip's model number, not the cards' names.... Thanks Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:14:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00328 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00323 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA18563 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:14:33 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I'm sad to say that the position of WEBMASTER is now open.. Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 03:14:33 -0800 Message-ID: <18561.826283673@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk John Fieber has indicated to me that his workload these days precludes the kind of active participation in refining and maintaining the web pages that's really required, and rather than stay on and do an insufficient job if it, he'd much prefer that the hat now be passed to someone else. John has done a terrific job of bringing our web pages up from essentially nothing to the finest documentation resource we have available today, and I hope that everyone will join me in wishing him the best of success in his new and highly demanding academic endeavors! Now before you all rush to send in your applications for the position of FreeBSD WEBMASTER (I hope! :-), let me first say a little bit about what's required, and add the caution that John's shoes won't exactly be trivial to fill! Requirements: o Monitor the www@freebsd.org alias and respond to queries. o Add new entries to the commercial and gallery sections as they're submitted. This requires both a certain sensitivity as to what constitutes a proper entry (and John has been a fiercely demanding editor, to our credit) and a timely response since people get miffed if they don't see their name in lights within a reasonable amount of time after submitting an entry. o Thoroughly know your way around HTML. o Be constantly on the look-out for new ways of organizing our HTML documentation and have some artistic sense of what separates a good, readable layout from a confusing neon jumble. A proactive attitude towards constantly refining and improving our web based documentation services is essential. o Be intimately familar with the process of running a WEB server (in our case, Apache), writing CGI scripts and interfacing to mutant indexing services like WAIS. In other words, if you are or have been a WEBMASTER for any other site of reasonable complexity then that would be a major plus! o Be aware of the fact that the whole world still isn't using Netscape. A willingness to use Lynx frequently as a formatting verifier is essential, keeping also in mind the fact that sysinstall's documentation menu also uses Lynx to view the home page, so even ardent netscape users may well first see our home page through lynx. o Lots of free time! :-) If you think you've got what it takes and are willing to sign up for what may truly be a fairly long-term committment, please send me email! I can't offer much in return except your name in lights and the privilege of putting "FreeBSD WEBMASTER" on your business cards, but you can definitely rest assured that you'll be making a major contribution to the success of FreeBSD! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:17:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01048 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA00969 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA23074 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:21:44 -0800 Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id BAA04753 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:27:31 -0700 Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA00347 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:21:36 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199603080821.BAA00347@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: Can someone tell me what this kernel message means? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:21:36 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9603072148.AA07875@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett A. Wollman" at Mar 7, 96 04:48:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, Garrett A. Wollman once said: > It doesn't matter how many /open/ connections you have, it's a > question of how long to keep cached data about old, now-closed > connections around. You can figure on about 128-256 bytes per host > with which you talk. What're the advantages to keeping a larger amount of data cached in this instance ina situation with a one local network and one default gateway (and 95% of the traffic comes via the gateway)? Will increasing rtq_toomany speed up the routing decision still? (e.g. is the decision to use the default route or reply back to the local network going to be that much slower than extracting it from the cache?) -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:19:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01649 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01602 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21573 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:48:34 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03132 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:22 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04817 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:26:13 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07248 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA07197 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from skat.usc.edu (grashiya@skat.usc.edu [128.125.253.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07190 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grashiya@localhost) by skat.usc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3/usc) id UAA27728 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 20:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Giritharan Rashiyamany Message-Id: <199603080406.UAA27728@skat.usc.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Help - Attach a H/D X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have an extra H/D which has linux, and want to attach it to the system running FreeBSD 2.1R so that I can get to boot either (without having to reinstall). The Linux H/D has a DOS partition and the FreeBSD H/D doesn't. Appreciate any advice, Thanks and Regards, RG From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:19:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01675 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01610 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21874 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:01:32 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02884 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:29 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08136 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:26:54 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26571 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:16:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26314 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26286 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA07938; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:11:21 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199603080211.NAA07938@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:11:21 +1100 (EST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, macgyver@infinet.com In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 7, 96 08:16:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can >learn how to use it? I've put a copy of the source for the "dga" test program at: ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/3.1.2D/dga.tgz Also, there is some very basic documentation in: ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/Xfree86/3.1.2D/doc/README.DGA David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:19:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01720 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01640 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21783 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:57:56 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02900 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:34 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08422 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:20 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27505 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27439 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01210 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:36 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21559 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:26 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20356 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA20303 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20293 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15658; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 18:41:00 EST." <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:30:20 -0800 Message-Id: <15656.826245020@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the > pieces together. Yes, but it's *ASUS* that should fix your motherboards. They knew about the problem and they sold it to you anyway for big bucks - that should be good for at least a couple of arrows in their backs, yes? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:19:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01765 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01674 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21843 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:59:42 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02908 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:35 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08515 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:45 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27592 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:26:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27551 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27545 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01106 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:06 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20204 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:55:41 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01441 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01310 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15161; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 (PST) To: Rashid Karimov Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: P6 and PCI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:53:28 EST." <199603071453.JAA19072@rk.ios.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:01:16 -0800 Message-Id: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No need to get too incensed about this! :-) Jordqan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:19:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01697 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01633 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21636 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:50:35 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03156 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:25 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04968 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:12 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26739 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26697 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26692 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01162 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:25 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21365 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:05:51 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19649 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19550 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19545 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15567; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printable 'info' docs? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:59:11 MST." <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:15:34 -0800 Message-Id: <15565.826244134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I > want something that is nicely laid out, etc... Look for something called texi2roff - it'll convert it to an MS or ME macro document. I don't have a URL, but I'm sure an ALTA VISTA search will turn it up in nothing flat.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:39:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03827 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from baobab.unisa.ac.za (baobab.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA03800 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by baobab.unisa.ac.za (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10892; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:36:07 +0200 From: radova@baobab.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9603081136.AA10892@baobab.unisa.ac.za> Subject: Radius server To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:36:07 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does anybody runs the Livingstone radius server? I compiled it with crypt library but it seems it doesn't work. Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:45:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA04574 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA04531 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03060 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:07 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04094 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:27 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03526 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03101 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01786 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27280 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:01:49 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24192 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA24151 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24144 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.gordian.com (hermes.gordian.com [192.73.220.111]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.4/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA00777 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by hermes.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id RAA18436; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603080136.RAA18436@hermes.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6 possible? X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is it possible to make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6, or is this still broken? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:54:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA05305 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA05177 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03164 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:26 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05009 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:38 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26992 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26747 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26741 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01170 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:26 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21530 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19487 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19029 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15551; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 (PST) To: Eric Varsanyi Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 MST." <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 16:12:23 -0800 Message-Id: <15549.826243943@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. No need to apologise at all. If someone here either intentionally or inadvertantly slams BSD/OS in an undeserved way then I, for one, would be more than happy to see it corrected. I'm rooting for friendlier relations between the various *BSD groups, not less, and the freedom to correct stated innaccuracies without political overtones is a necessary component of that. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 03:55:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA05442 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA05407 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03253 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:47 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05517 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:31:11 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27169 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27061 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27050 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01146 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:21 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21101 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:03:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13822 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13537 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25105 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16170 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:11 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03408 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03223 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03218 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA05659 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603071943.MAA05659@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:11:46 PST." <199603071711.JAA22180@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:43:35 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:17:05 -0500 > >>No, you can change IRQ, ports and DMA addresses at boot time in BSDI in >>much the same way you can with FreeBSD . Also even without source code >>you can recompile the kernel to fit the devices you have. >>jbeukema > >True, but its a pain and it doesn't save them so you have to do it every time >until you get a kernel built. And you cant look at a list of devices easily to >check for conflicts before you boot. Usually people boot the generic kernel, it complains about conflicts (or fails to discover some devices), then you reboot and enter the overrides by hand. After getting booted up you put the overrides in /etc/boot.default or build a new kernel. List: Sorry for all the BSD/OS traffic, I'll shut up now. - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMT88ZjxFdSMFRIw5AQGNoAP/UuYOk22Kv/f6NAkOp6AqnGpD7QpSpVxa WnH+bFukf5FxRu6SAx3HnrzVW44cev9uaWWLD/YvAuxJg25dtB22GMijJQx95Emq Zm++rJPm/WNTA7uRX7EsBxub44E+cqYtCwcW42i4P820DT5EjKQ0SMYcXV+wIiAW ZD8DqW4zj94= =UkBg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:27:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01324 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01272 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA22234 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:27:00 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA03557; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:21:17 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:21:17 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603080721.SAA03557@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wsj@widesoft.com.br Subject: Re: Cyclades Board Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, >Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. >When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, >sends a prompt, call /usr/bin/login , as usual. Help is more likely to be available for the standard cy driver. mgetty is reported to have a similar problem with the standard driver, but getty is reported to work with the standard driver. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:27:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01498 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01430 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA22036 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:11:50 -0800 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id SAA26926; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:11:25 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199603080711.SAA26926@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:11:24 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 8, 96 06:33:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D > (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c > now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. Then, perhaps, the unconditional test for the string "445" needs fixing to allow later revisions to function as designed ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02650 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02603 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21601 ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:49:26 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03261 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:48 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05528 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:31:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04616 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04558 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (tip-mp19-ncs-14.Stanford.EDU [36.173.1.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04530 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lightning.Stanford.EDU (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00196; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:56 -0800 Message-Id: <313FAA65.41C67EA6@wireless.stanford.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:32:53 -0800 From: Bora Akyol Organization: Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: IDE Busmaster SUpport in FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Is there any support for the BUSMASTER features of the Triton chipset in FreeBSD? Also while I am asking support questions I sure would appreciate it if somebody can port the Linux MediaVision Jazz 16 support to the FreeBSD kernel. Thanks Bora From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:30:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02652 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02620 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21593 ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:49:13 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02812 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:15 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07219 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:26 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04609 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:33:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04543 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (tip-mp19-ncs-14.Stanford.EDU [36.173.1.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04530 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lightning.Stanford.EDU (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00196; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:32:56 -0800 Message-Id: <313FAA65.41C67EA6@wireless.stanford.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:32:53 -0800 From: Bora Akyol Organization: Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: IDE Busmaster SUpport in FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Is there any support for the BUSMASTER features of the Triton chipset in FreeBSD? Also while I am asking support questions I sure would appreciate it if somebody can port the Linux MediaVision Jazz 16 support to the FreeBSD kernel. Thanks Bora From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01376 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01327 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA22338 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:42:52 -0800 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.12/1.53) id IAA24948; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:41:22 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199603080741.IAA24948@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: pwd_mkdb - really slow :( To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:41:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, rashid@rk.ios.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603051212.PAA01715@ache.dialup.ru> from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Mar 5, 96 03:12:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Do you solve order problems with different login names per same uid? > Yes. That is in fact quite easy to solve. But only because my patches give the opportunity to add/change *one* user to the password file via chpass/chsh/chfn, passwd and yppasswdd. These utilities do not allow the uid to be changed. In those cases you can getpwuid() the uid to change/add, do a getpwnam on the result and check if the uid you get back equals the uid of the user to add/change. You then know what to do. It will be harder when you can also change the uid. That is because you have to do two things 1) Make sure the old uid of the user to change is not still used 2) Test if the new uid of the user to change is not in use. In both cases when the uid is in use, you have to find out which user with that uid comes first in the password file. This is not at all easy to solve. Testing in file that is passed to pwd_mkdb for a uid change of the given user is the only solution. That would take a lot of time though. In my case, I demand that the uid did not change. And that is gurantueed by the limited set of commands supporting it. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01780 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01699 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21973 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:08:32 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02820 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:16 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07247 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:29 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28350 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28264 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28245 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01226 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21654 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:41 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22075 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA22006 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22001 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA15327; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080100.SAA15327@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:00:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 07:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I moved my reply to "Imminent overload of the Internet Predicted" to chat. You can follow it there, if you follow such things. Suffice it to say, Chuck is wrong: it is economically inevitable that old-stlye call unit charging must die. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01800 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01722 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22032 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:11:31 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02828 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:18 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07331 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:49 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28630 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28573 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28559 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01081 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:58 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24264 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:06:56 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12655 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA12518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA12507 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15396; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby Cc: Terry Lambert , mrl@teleport.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:32:12 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:43:53 -0800 Message-Id: <15394.826242233@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I think what we need for 2.1.5 is a stand-alone version of the > fdisk/partition utility from /stand/sysinstall. I never did master the > concept of poking magic numbers into /etc/format.dat and our heinous I've been planning this for some time, gated off of both fdisk and label editors becoming more functional than they are. If you have 5 or more drives attached to your system, and many do, the current tools simply fall over. The fix for this problem is known and planned, after which I'll look at breaking out pieces of sysinstall and making them more functional. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01885 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01788 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21680 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:52:44 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03172 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:27 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05026 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:55 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27195 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27034 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27022 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01017 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22544 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:56:10 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20256 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20009 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19981 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04530; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199603072221.RAA04530@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jerry Kendall From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >> > >> > >> >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with >> >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. >> > >> >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... >> >Try to get that from BSDI.... >> >> Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... >> > > >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try >to find an answer.... Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give it to anyone. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01893 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01811 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21910 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:03:25 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03076 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:09 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04211 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:21:11 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03701 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03662 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03657 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA17367 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:23:01 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA17274; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199603080319.TAA17274@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Wilson MacGyver Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:11:04 EST." <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> Wilson MacGyver said: > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. > Hi, Your best bet is to talk to the XFree86 folks about their DGA extensions. The reason for using DGA is to initialize the card properly and to set the given resolution. The wrapper to get into DGA mode is very simple . Once you are in DGA mode you can do whatever you want with the card. The linux svgalib is very very very bad idea and if you really need it we can always port it for you. I have ported it the linux svgalib and always end up deleting from my system. I have a little program called tv which uses DGA if you like I can send you. You shall post on freebsd-multimedia or the xfree86 mailing mostly because the concentration of talents is there and this is a high bandwith mailing lists which your plea for help can get easily lost. Best Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01920 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01842 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21611 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:49:34 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02916 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:37 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08534 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:29:01 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26688 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26648 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26642 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01025 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:40 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22709 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26954 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA26868 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26831 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29254 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16597 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:16:04 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07911 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07829 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02324; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:59:11 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603072059.NAA02324@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Printable 'info' docs? X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk How can I create a printable 'as' doc? I've got the info file, but I want something that is nicely laid out, etc... I know I could go install tex and run it on the original texinfo file, but I'd rather not just to print out a stupid document. All I want is a simple postscript file, how can I do it? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01911 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01827 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21684 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:52:50 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02836 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:20 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07400 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:21:22 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03564 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03254 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03235 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01778 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA02144 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:01:22 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23480 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23226 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26187; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09314; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18489; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080038.BAA18489@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: help needed To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:38:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie (Fergal Lane) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9603071537.AA27024@odyssey.ucc.ie> from "Fergal Lane" at Mar 7, 96 03:37:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Fergal Lane wrote: > It gets as far as : > > npx0 on motherboard > npx0 : INT 16 interface > WARNING : / was not properly dismounted > > and then it hangs. > We have tried using the 2.1 fixit and boot floppies without > success. They can't seem to mount the disk. Have you tried fsck'ing it from the fixit floppy? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:31:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01966 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01888 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21692 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:53:07 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02844 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:20 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07573 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:22:33 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03619 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:22:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03569 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03562 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01794 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:35 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27531 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:03:02 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23604 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23446 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23408 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26206; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09319; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18133; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:58 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080012.BAA18133@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:12:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at Mar 7, 96 08:16:40 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Ron G. Minnich wrote: > So, is there a "hello, world" equivalent program for DGA so that we can > learn how to use it? There's a simple test program called `dga' in the source tree. I seem to remember that there've been yet another thing somebody was hacking on, but i forgot what it's been. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:32:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02081 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02001 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21617 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:49:51 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03084 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:11 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04468 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:23:07 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03549 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03147 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01802 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27834 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:06:14 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23404 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23273 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23217 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26235 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09342 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id CAA18869 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:55 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080108.CAA18869@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:08:54 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603071005.LAA20629@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 11:01:51 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? . a simple line editor with at least 10 lines of history . repeat the last `print' command by pressing enter only . inb/outb builtins . a `kill' command -- i always forget about the usage of `psignal()', and the source code is usually not available in DDB... :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:32:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02152 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02083 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21942 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:05:34 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03180 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:28 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05188 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:06 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27727 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27681 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27668 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01178 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:28 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24318 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:26 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11824 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11687 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20450; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199603072341.SAA20450@rk.ios.com> Subject: Re: P6 and PCI To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <15159.826239676@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 7, 96 03:01:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does any1 know if ASUS already makes motherboards with an updated chipset ? It's impossible to find a person in that company who understands the problem at all ... Any contacts I can use at ASUS who would be aware of the problem ? > > > I wonder if there will be a lawsuit ... anyway what they > > did is insane ! They had really fast and stable processor > > and shittiest chipset and instead of making us wait for > > a DECENT system, they just combined what they had at the time. > > ASUS has agreed to fix our own motherboard - have you tried following > up with them to see if they'll do the same for you as well? No > need to get too incensed about this! :-) No - I meant Intel :) there . ASUS just assembled the pieces together. Good news - looks like Intel started shipping "Alder" motherboards to some of its VARs. Is there a sense in buying SMP MBs now hoping for working and stable SMP support in FreeBSD by say end of (this :) summer ? :))) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:32:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02172 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02109 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21621 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:50:00 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03092 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:12 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04482 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:23:19 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03545 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03216 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03198 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01810 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:40 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA02853 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:07:25 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23478 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23356 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23213 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26230 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09341 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:21:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18580 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080045.BAA18580@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: man page hacking To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:45:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603070907.KAA16982@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 7, 96 10:04:17 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > RTFM :-) > > Where? > That's only part of the story. A large number of man pages are > written with the an (-man) macros, and I haven't been able to find any > documentation for them either (on any platform, for that matter). The question was about new man pages, that's why -mdoc. The -man macros are rather limited in their features. That's why the output created by them is called ``people's pages''. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:33:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02240 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02171 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21759 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:56:56 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02924 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:38 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08748 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:05 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27301 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27266 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27258 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01114 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:13 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20396 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15495 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15309 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15231 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25097 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:29 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16089 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:32:46 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03390 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03168 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03161 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA08951; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603071942.NAA08951@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Gillespie" at Mar 7, 96 09:23:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > BTW, Sorry for the bandwidth, for those uninterested; perhaps a > PR@freebsd.org list? In the mean time can we please move this discussion to freebsd-chat and keep it out of freebsd-hackers? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:33:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02361 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02276 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21817 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:58:39 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02932 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:39 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08800 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:15 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27574 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27512 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27507 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01033 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:42 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA22742 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:57:30 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27566 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA27441 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27410 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA29315 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:40:56 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24493 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:23:37 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08536 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08462 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14792; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072102.OAA14792@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603070650.WAA10366@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Mar 6, 96 10:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > The FCC was petitioned yesterday by ACTA "TO STOP MISUSE OF THE INTERNET". > > The sale and use of Voice-On-the-Net (VON) software is being challenged by > 130 of the USA's largest long distance telephone carriers. Among them, MCI, > SPRINT, and LDDS. I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO TWO YEARS AGO! Hah! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02321 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02256 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21640 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:50:45 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03148 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:24 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04896 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:27:13 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05852 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA05758 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05744 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:48:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01942 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:40:34 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA28082 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:07:42 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23221 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23063 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26174 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09303 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18105 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:46 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080007.BAA18105@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:07:45 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603072212.BAA10146@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 01:12:35 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Alexey Pialkin wrote: > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... X does even run on my 386/16 with 5 MB. As long as you only want the functionality you've been describing, who tells you that you gotta start ten xterms, a window manager, a Netscape, and an Emacs? The Xserver itself and the application you're going to develop don't eat up that much memory. If you're going to use a full-screen DGA application, you might even omit the window manager. For the extra megabyte you're paying, you get support for several dozens of graphics cards. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02390 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02320 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21969 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:08:04 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03188 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:30 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05354 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:39 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28016 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA27959 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27932 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01122 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:14 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20554 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:59:18 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17483 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17140 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25113 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16229 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:33:55 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04279 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04062 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04055 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14282; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199603071957.LAA14282@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: Jerry Kendall , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 13:30:41 EST." <199603071830.NAA04144@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:57:30 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > > > > > >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. Nope, large ISPs can have different problems than your typical small installation. I remember BEST internet posting problems related to their installation and I swear than only very few on this list were able to help them out and for a while no one around here had any clue as to their instability problems. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02461 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02383 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22068 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:14:08 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02852 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:23 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA07734 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:23:42 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29221 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29158 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29151 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01041 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:44 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23320 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:00:47 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19138 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18893 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24925 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:12 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA14948 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:38 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02920 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02696 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02685 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA14483; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603071930.MAA14483@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <96Mar7.091430est.20481-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Mar 7, 96 09:02:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Jordan, or maybe someone else, is there a 'collection' of tools > that everyone can run on thier local systems to generate a > 'standard' output file that we all can email/ftp to some central > depository... Then ask if you want to run them during install, and automatically mail the results. You could do a hardware inventory at the same time (based on dmesg). Like "joining" the Microsoft Network. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02453 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02366 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA21985 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:09:23 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03068 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:08 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04162 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:20:47 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28360 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28187 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28146 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01186 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24342 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:07 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11351 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10332 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA10294 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15357; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby Cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Comparing FreeBSD and other OSs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:51:36 PST." Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 15:35:08 -0800 Message-Id: <15355.826241708@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > our own product in the other pages. This page would also have an > emphasized message saying something like: "We want FreeBSD to be the > best operating system it can be. If you decide to choose one of the > other OS's (especially Linux) please fill out this brief survey to show > why you made your decision." Then we can have a _brief_ fill-out form, > which I can make a CGI to tabulate and automagically post the results. That's a neat idea. I like it! > Certainly that is the primary focus of the Web page layout I'm > designing. I plan to have lots of cold, hard facts, but those would be > available as hypertext links. So where a primary page would say "FreeBSD > outperforms Linux by 3 to 1 for an Internet server!" there would be a link > to the full study. This way, people can skim through literally dozens of > FreeBSD advantages, and if they are particularly interested or skeptical > about one, they can click on the actual survey, and so our ethical > integrity is maintained. By the way, it would be nice if we had the Excellent. Sounds like you've struck the right balance here. > funding to perform some USABILITY studies head-to-head with Linux, > because I really believe our product is better "out of the box" than most I doubt that we'll get any funding for stuff like this, but you should be able to get a number of people to volunteer time and systems for this if you ask them nicely.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02481 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02400 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21847 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:59:54 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02892 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:32 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08400 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:28:09 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05860 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA05783 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05757 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01926 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:40:30 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA03073 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:10:07 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23312 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23172 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23131 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA26170; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:19 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA09302; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:20:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id BAA18086; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603080004.BAA18086@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:04:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: macgyver@infinet.com (Wilson MacGyver) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> from "Wilson MacGyver" at Mar 7, 96 12:11:04 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Wilson MacGyver wrote: > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. You will have to reinvent about this number of lines: j@uriah 99% pwd /usr/othersrc/XFree86/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86 j@uriah 100% find accel {bdm2,hga2,mono,vga256}/drivers -type f \ -name '*.[ch]' | xargs wc -l | \ awk '{count += $1;} END {printf "Total: %d lines.\n", count}' Total: 334924 lines. ... for getting the same amount of hardware supported as XFree86(tm) does support by now. Maybe i've forgotten something, but this should give you a rough estimation about the hardware-dependent code. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02497 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02442 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22028 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:11:13 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03100 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:13 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04589 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:24:17 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28611 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28535 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28525 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01130 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:16 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA20818 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:01:01 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18015 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:07:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17847 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17808 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA24718 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:00 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA27194 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:26:43 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03023 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02833 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA04954; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:33:19 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA or broken. I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design and is designed for VLB. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:34:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02516 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02449 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA21660 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:51:17 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03196 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:31 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA05422 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:30:54 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27019 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26966 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26819 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01057 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:46 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23533 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:01:50 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20353 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20049 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20010 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA28974 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:11:38 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA16990 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:39:40 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04532 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hidrogenio ([200.246.206.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04325 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603072003.MAA04325@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from litio (litio.widesoft.com.br) by hidrogenio ; 7 MAR 96 17:01:27 X-Sender: wsj@200.246.206.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: wsj@widesoft.com.br (Waldemar Scudeller Jr.) Subject: Tty problem with Cyclades Board X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi! I am using a Cyclades 8Ys multi-serial board with FreeBsd 2.1, Brian E. Litzinger's cyb driver and mgetty. When the modem receives a call, the mgetty gets the connection, sends a prompt, calls /usr/bin/login , as usual. Login shows the password prompt, but ignore everthing from terminal to server, without drop the connection. If I write something directly to device while connected, the data goes to terminal screen. I have tested getty: it send the login prompt and ignore everthing from terminal. I verify the stty flags, cables, etc., all looks good to me. Can anyone help me on that? Thanks in advance. Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------------- Waldemar Scudeller Jr. wsj@widesoft.com.br Widesoft Sistemas Ltda. Limeira/SP - Brasil F. +55 194 51 9047 -------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:35:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01568 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01523 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22109 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:15:44 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03108 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:15 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04633 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:24:37 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29585 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29551 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29546 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01218 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:37 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21587 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:56 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19374 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA18619 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18588 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15152; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 8, 96 06:33:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating > >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than > >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one > >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 > >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". > > According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D > (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c > now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it > by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary > bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers > since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA > or broken. > > I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design > and is designed for VLB. If you could turn it off and on on a per-controller basis, you could easily locate a page that would wrap that is in both the "above 16M" and "below 16M" spaces. Then you: 1) Read a sector into the low area 2) Increment every byte 3) Copy it to the high area 4) Read the sector to the high area; if the decode fails, the low area is modified, if not, the high area is modified. You disable bouncing if the high area is modified, and leave it enabled if the low area is. This fixes HiNT chipset based NiCE EISA motherboards, and the three name changes the motherboards went through after it became apparent they didn't conform to the EISA spec. You don't even do the "16M DMA wrap probe" if the machine has less than 16M. Problem solved. Throuw out the version code and the ISA/VLB distinction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:36:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02613 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02548 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22084 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:14:40 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA03124 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:46:21 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA04753 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:25:47 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29479 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29245 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29232 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01065 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:12:48 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA23834 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:04:16 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11438 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:40:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11289 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14900; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Act Now ! To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:34:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 7, 96 10:18:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] > > The point being, if use of the internet stopped being an experiemental > tool and became one tenth as popular as, say, the web browsers, the > internet would stop being useful as a communications medium. The > bandwidth ain't there, and if it was, the swithcing point bandwidth isn't > there either. The internet isn't a viable option for massive replacement > of our telephone network. It's fine for experimenters, and I've been one > of them, but if it stopped being experimental, and everybody joined in, > this would be a disaster. On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k or higher data rates). I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment proceedings. My answer to the "bandwidth" (actually "backbone bandwidth") argument is that the backbones need bigger pipes. 10Gbit is deployed as an experimental system in several locations already, and TCI is soon going to have 60,000 homes wired for 10Mbit full duplex (they already have half that number and are operating successfully). The "switching point bandwidth" is only a problem if they insist on metering instead of flat-rating on the basis of pipe size. If they want to keep that up, fine: I'll be getting my phone service from TCI as well. I don't care who I pay, as long as it is reasonable. 8-). The real grin is that the phone companies, especially Sprint and MCI, have been basically killing each other for a market that is going to boil away to nothing more than low margin pipe-provider services (I also predicted that two years ago... yes!), with the money going to content providers and data-vaulting services. BTW: look for the thread on "server anonymity/content-addressable networking", and the other thread on "connection to services, not servers/datavaulting for distribution" in both the news groups and the -hackers lists to help me count my kills. So far, I'm 5 for 7. "I are a regular pundit" 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:36:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02625 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02559 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22038 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:12:05 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02876 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:29 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08050 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:26:16 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29018 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA28774 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28751 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01154 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:22 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21345 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:05:42 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19133 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18831 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18780 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA25089 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:41:27 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA15545 (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:30:36 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03012 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02798 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02793 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04287; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:39:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603071939.OAA04287@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Brandon Gillespie From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD comparison - it's time, I think! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > 3) Full description of ftp.cdrom.com as a "case study". Also, when >> > people FTP to ftp.cdrom.com there should be a BIG banner, like: >> > 'Unleash the daemon in your PC!' >> > (followed by some information about ftp.cdrom.com and FreeBSD)." >> >> That logo looks so cheesy though :P > >Sorry for the noise here, but where would we submit 'ad' ideas? I've >done a bit of graphical design work (international publications), and >I have some possible ideas, my favorite is: > > beginning graphic: > > + + > Did you know? > > L I N U X > > is used by hundreds of internet providers world wide... > + + > >(where LINUX is a big snazzy looking logo) > >Clicking on the image will take you to the full page with some more >graphics to the effect of > > > Yet FreeBSD outperforms it in (most? all? majority?) network applications! > > > Recently stanford university performed an independant study > of FreeBSD and Linux. They found that (insert inspiring > numbers and stats here). > > This study has prompted the FreeBSD development team to conduct > further benchmarks, creating a wide array of information on > using not only FreeBSD vs Linux, but also other PC unix systems > such as NetBSD, BSD/OS (BSDi?), [Unixware, SCO?] > > [info on getting and learning more about FreeBSD] > >Etc. > >Actual wording would, of course, be correct and acurate :) > >-Brandon Gillespie- Its always a mistake to give your competitor top billing. Plus you're informing people that its the OS of choice and FreeBSD is the whining challenger. What happened to "stressing the possitives?". One of the reasons that I think that a BSDI vs FreeBSD vs Linux matrix at least looks more objective. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 04:36:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02631 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02569 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 03:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA22091 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 23:15:06 -0800 Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA02868 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:45:27 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA08031 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:26:09 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29540 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29502 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29494 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01194 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:33 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA24376 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:08:19 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20045 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA19912 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19906 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07771; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA31297; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Act Now ! In-Reply-To: <199603072134.OAA14900@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Charset: KOI8-R X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] [My comments on Voice On Net deleted] > On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone > network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching > so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather > than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are > puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k > or higher data rates). Actually, several years ago, when it was still a telecommunications company, ITT tried real hard to make a voice switch based upon a packet switching core. It was an incredible failure, and took ITT's reputation down into the toilet with it. Circuit switching, when you have a steady data load (like voice has) is far, far cheaper than any technology that tries to adjust itself to user demand. Cheaper in terms of hardware for the telephone companies, and that's why it costs more for ISDN or Frame Relay that your regular home phone. Maybe this is changing, maybe even right now, but it's true at this particular point in time. > > I predicted over two years ago (gotta tout your wins! 8-)) that the > phone companies would start to feel the pressure from internet based > communications tools removing the ability to meter by usage rather > than pipe size. And that they would start legal harrassment > proceedings. Actually, like I said originally, if only 10 percent of _just hackers_ began making all their calls via the internet, the internet would bow under the traffic strain. On top of this, the technology that Amancio and company is using will not support high speed modems. Nearly all existing long distance networks will support high speed modems (I know this because I was tasked to test this assertion several years ago). I can't completely understand why, in the face of this fairly obvious fact, why the big phone companies are reacting. I suspect they're concerned somewhat with appearances, showing they're not the only show in town, which they certainly aren't anymore. > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 05:53:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA15391 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA15386 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20488-1>; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:04:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:52:39 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: dennis Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: <199603072221.RAA04530@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Mar8.090449est.20488-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with > >> >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. > >> > > >> >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... > >> >Try to get that from BSDI.... > >> > >> Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... > >> > > > > > >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try > >to find an answer.... > > Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give > it to anyone. > > Dennis Which is how it limits this kind of support... Sure you can tell someone what to do to fix something, but, you can't give them the sources to fix a faulty program... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 06:00:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA16284 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16277 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:00:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA00889 (5.65.kiae-2 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:57:36 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 8 Mar 96 16:57:36 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by d133.z194-58-229.relcom.ru (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA01407 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:52:54 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199603081352.QAA01407@d133.z194-58-229.relcom.ru> Subject: Dynamic IP address & hostnames problem To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:52:53 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I need to set my hostname *manually* after connecting with dynamic IP address to match it. When I make hostname as alias to localhost, several programs works incorrectly f.e. 'talk' produce user@localhost request which not fits. Does anybody have any ideas how to implement automatic hostname setting for user-level PPP and SLIP dynamic addresses? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 07:32:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA23713 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23706 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:32:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA26263 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:32:45 -0800 Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06157; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:35:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:35:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199603081535.KAA06157@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> I've been thinking about improving ddb. About 4 years ago, I wrote a >> similar kernel debugger for BSD/386, and was thinking of incorporating >> some of its features into ddb. One of the things it could do was >> exactly this kind of stack trace (well, it supplied other information >> as well). I won't get round to doing it until May, though. >> >> Does anybody else have ideas about improving ddb? > Perhaps theres already a way to do this...but I have 2 things.... 1) Let the machine reboot after a certain amount of time. When debugging an infrequent problem, you can't leave the machine in an unmanned environment (or go to sleep) if you need it to come back up after a crash. 2) Allow it to be disabled (can you do this?). #1 could be solved if you could disable it when you left the site. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 07:35:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA23891 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23879 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA26282 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:35:40 -0800 Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06172; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:38:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:38:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199603081538.KAA06172@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jerry Kendall From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >> > >> >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, dennis wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Right!... So if there is anyone out there that needs help with >> >> >FreeBSD, there are more than 500 people that can help this sole.. >> >> > >> >> >I personally have sent out messages at 2am on sunday mornings... >> >> >Try to get that from BSDI.... >> >> >> >> Thats not fair. BSDI has a user list also..... >> >> >> > >> > >> >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try >> >to find an answer.... >> >> Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give >> it to anyone. >> >> Dennis > >Which is how it limits this kind of support... Sure you can tell someone >what to do to fix something, but, you can't give them the sources to fix >a faulty program... Well...the real issue is not that there is no source....because anyone can get it. The issue is the COST of the source. So the real argument isn't that "you cant do it" with BSDI....only that "its gonna cost you" to do it with BSDI, to be accurate. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 07:45:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24891 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24869 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA26225 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:27:43 -0800 Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06150 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:30:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:30:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199603081530.KAA06150@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I'm rooting for friendlier relations between the various *BSD groups, >> not less, and the freedom to correct stated innaccuracies without >> political overtones is a necessary component of that. >> Jordan > >Jordan in '96! > >:-) Even against Bucannon I'd have to think hard about that one! :-) db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 07:45:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24977 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24923 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com ([205.138.147.242]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA26217 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:25:15 -0800 Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA13272 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:18:52 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma013270; Fri Mar 8 09:18:34 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA11631; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:20:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA24148; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:32:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603081432.IAA24148@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Wilson MacGyver cc: hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:11:04 EST." <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 08:32:09 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk A while back I ported Linux' svga and graphics libraries. As I remember it was little more than an afternoon project. Sorry but I lost interest and need the disk space for something else :(. But it ain't too bad if you don't look at the code, just close your eyes and compile. That stuff is hideous. eric. > J Wunsch wrote: > > You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands > > lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each > > hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics > > cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. > > > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. > > For example, what funication call would I make to say, set the > videocard to various mode? I suppose I could use inline asm > within GCC. Though I rather not do that. > > > -- > Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com > -------------------------------------- > Veni, Vidi, Concidi. > -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 11:02:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05610 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05597 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17394; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:58:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603081858.LAA17394@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ISDN To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:58:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Alan Batie" at Mar 7, 96 09:30:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > (this is also why the phone comapnies are > > puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k > > or higher data rates). > > Obviously you don't live in US West or GTE territory. GTE is starting > to come around, but getting ISDN in US West is still, apparently, quite > a battle. Au contraire! I live in the heart of US West territory; in fact, I live in a prefix not serviced by the one 5ESS in 10,000 square miles. Otherwise, I'd be able to get Centrix to work and use DOVBS ISDN to give me 64k for about $18/month. FWIW: I *can* get Frame Relay, thought it isn't pushed very hard in this area. It's just that the cheapest provider wants $220/month to connect me to their cloud (and US WEst wants $300/month for the exact same service). Just because you can't get it doesn't mean they don't want you to use it. Getting the FR information was worse than pulling teeth; they actually suggested I pay inter-LADA charges for ISDN before I got them to admit they had FR. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 11:15:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06352 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06328 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA29008 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:47:16 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA17365; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:43:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603081843.LAA17365@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:43:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: jerry@border.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603072221.RAA04530@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Mar 7, 96 05:21:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try > >to find an answer.... > > Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give > it to anyone. 8-). Once you find the answer and fix it, can you give them a binary patch? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 11:15:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06417 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06370 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA28396 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:17:02 -0800 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA15024; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:17:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: "A. Radovanovic" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Radius server In-Reply-To: <9603081136.AA10892@baobab.unisa.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hmmm, I'm running it on 2.1-stable with -lcrypt, and it works fine. I can send you a binary if you want. On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, A. Radovanovic wrote: > Does anybody runs the Livingstone radius server? I compiled it > with crypt library but it seems it doesn't work. > > Alex > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 11:53:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08415 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08410 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:53:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA06550; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:54:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:54:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199603081954.OAA06550@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try >> >to find an answer.... >> >> Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give >> it to anyone. > >8-). > >Once you find the answer and fix it, can you give them a binary patch? I guess you could, however it makes more sense to submit it to BSDI and let them do it officially. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 13:48:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15731 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:48:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15719 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00335; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 13:47:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199603082147.NAA00335@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 14:54:47 EST." <199603081954.OAA06550@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 13:47:40 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > >> >I agree, BUT, that list of users can't look into the sources to try > >> >to find an answer.... > >> > >> Why not? I have source....and so do many others. You just can't give > >> it to anyone. > > > >8-). > > > >Once you find the answer and fix it, can you give them a binary patch? > > I guess you could, however it makes more sense to submit it to > BSDI and let them do it officially. > Provided of course that they like your fix 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 14:53:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18657 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18647 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:53:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:53:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603082253.OAA18647@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-hackers From: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Welcome to freebsd-questions Reply-To: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -- Welcome to the freebsd-questions mailing list! If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG" with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe freebsd-questions freebsd-hackers Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the question to be pretty technical. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 14:57:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19005 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18995 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:57:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id XAA13934 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:52:22 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199603082252.XAA13934@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: IDE performance To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:52:22 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Can someone tell me why my IDE disk (WDC AC31600, 1.6GB) mounted on the primary IDE (together with a slave ATAPI CDROM) runs at 5.5MB/s (both with iozone 128 8192 and with bonnie, block transfer), and the same disk on the secondary IDE does "just" little more than 3.1MB/s ? This is on a Pentium100, Intel Zappa MB with built-in IDE controller, 32MB ram, 2.1R. The wdc driver is compiled with flags 0x80ff80ff on both primary and secondary interfaces. Is this a feature of the motherboard, or something in the kernel ? (or just because IDE sucks... :) BTW, I'd like to try the ccd driver on multiple IDE disks [at 5.5MB each, I am really curious how they scale up!]. Any idea if I can boot/swap on a ccd "unit" ? And, in this case, any idea on how can I install the system on a ccd "unit" ? Alternatively, I can boot a diskless kernel but at leas having local swap would be nice. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:12:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20361 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20198 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20014 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20006 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tvBGq-0008sNC; Fri, 8 Mar 96 15:08 PST Message-Id: From: garyh@agora.rdrop.com (Gary Hanson) Subject: Re: Need GENERIC driver [problem solved] To: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:08:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603082149.AA19418@Sisyphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Mar 8, 96 10:49:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I said: > } Problem: The NCR SCSI driver (ncr0) isn't included in the boot.flp file, Yes, it _is_ included, but doesn't show up in a boot -c 'ls'. Stefan said: > Boot with -v and look for all PCI bus probe > messages. Excellent idea, but it never made it to the PCI probes, it hung before then. When I opened up the box, I suddenly remembered that my soundblaster is a Soundblaster SCSI, and the SCSI port cannot be disabled in hardware. I don't use the SB SCSI, I use the NCR SCSI, and forgot about the SB. I _had_ noticed that it'd probed an Adaptec on ISA, but since it also detected my Intel EtherExpress as a Mitsumi CD, I figured (wrongly) that the Adaptec was just another misprobe. A bit of fiddling with boot -c, and it now comes up. Mea culpa, and thanks. --Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:17:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21224 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21198 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA26540 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:59:23 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA15260; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:58:35 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199603081558.JAA15260@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: 100BaseT multi-channel network cards To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:58:34 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603081110.DAA20801@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Mar 8, 96 03:10:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > (I don't want to span, but I haven't gotten any replies yet.) > > What fast twin-channel network cards are supported? I tried to look > it up in the FAQ and handbook but the handbook's section is empty and > the FAQ just tells me the chip's model number, not the cards' > names.... > > Thanks > Satoshi I don't know if they're supported, but Zynx and Cogent both have PCI quad ethernet 100bT cards (based on 21140). I know it's not exactly what you asked for, but maybe it's a useful lead. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:18:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21484 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21415 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA24799 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:56:11 -0800 Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA06722; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:53:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 07:53:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , Wilson MacGyver Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-Reply-To: <199603080004.BAA18086@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The thing i've kicked around from time to time is building the X server as a library. I.e. i want to mess with the card directly, I realize that there's a lot of value in the x server as regards hardware control, but i want direct access with no IPC in the middle. If i had the x server as libxserver.a then i could hijack the server and make it do something else. You would mainly want to toss the X IPC protocol stuff. ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:18:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21641 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21612 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA24722 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:44:13 -0800 Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id UAA01369 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:46:15 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: 8 Mar 96 12:38:03 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) writes: >> >This is highly dependent on the motherboard you have to put it in (stating >> >the bleeding obvious :-)) .. PCI is better than VESA or EISA is better than >> >ISA. Any decent card, Adaptec or BusLogic will do what you need. Note one >> >specific exception - a BT445S is of absolutely no benefit at all over a 1542 >> >through its inability to avoid the use of "bounce-buffers". >> >> According to /sys/i386/isa/bt5xx-445.c, only "OLD bt445s Revision A,B,C,D >> (nowired)" have broken 32 bit addressing. However, /sys/i386/scsi/bt.c >> now enables bounce buffering for all bt445s's. You can still avoid it >> by using option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. Option BOUNCE_BUFFERS also gives unnecessary >> bounce buffering for the ultrastor U24F (EISA) and U34F (VLB) controllers >> since ultra14f.c always enables bounce buffering in case the system is ISA >> or broken. >> >> I think the bt445s is still better than a 1542 because it is a newer design >> and is designed for VLB. >If you could turn it off and on on a per-controller basis, you could >easily locate a page that would wrap that is in both the "above 16M" >and "below 16M" spaces. >Then you: >1) Read a sector into the low area >2) Increment every byte >3) Copy it to the high area >4) Read the sector to the high area; if the decode fails, the > low area is modified, if not, the high area is modified. >You disable bouncing if the high area is modified, and leave it >enabled if the low area is. >This fixes HiNT chipset based NiCE EISA motherboards, and the three >name changes the motherboards went through after it became apparent >they didn't conform to the EISA spec. >You don't even do the "16M DMA wrap probe" if the machine has less >than 16M. >Problem solved. Throuw out the version code and the ISA/VLB distinction. Not for the BT445S that I have.. :-( It passes a DMA wraparound test, but still manages to indeterminately f*** up when running with no bouncing. I've tried both the native and the "fixed" roms. I suspect the "fixed" roms for this card simply have a bios patch to avoid triggering the firmware and/or hardware bugs. Naturally, a bios patch is practically useless to us if that's all it is. The other interesting thing is that the "revision" string does not appear to be able to be read on these cards... Either that or the driver is not getting what it's expecting from the firmware. Thus, it's impossible to tell whether you have a 445S rev A through D vs a 445S rev E (if it even existed). The 445C supposedly works though, and the driver knows this. Cheers, -Peter > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:24:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22209 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21930 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21522 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21469 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA24737 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:45:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA00967; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 04:46:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199603081246.EAA00967@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Dan Baritchi cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel EtherExpress PRO/100 support for FreeBSD 2.1 (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 1996 14:13:34 CST." <199603072013.OAA12945@server.iadfw.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 04:46:11 -0800 X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I have FreeBSD 2.1 installed and I just bought an Intel EtherExpress >PRO/100 LAN Adaper (PCI). Does anyone know if there is any way I could get >to this work with FreeBSD? It is detected at boot time, but then it tells me >there is no driver assigned. > >Here is what I have in my kernel config file: > >device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 >vector ixintr > >Here is what I see at boot time: > >pci0:19: Intle Corporation, device=0x1229, class=network (ethernet) >[no driver assigned] That's a Pro/100B card. It's not supported in 2.1R, but I wrote a driver recently that is available in "-stable" and in the "-current" source trees as the if_fxp driver. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:32:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22786 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pu.ru (slip-0.pu.ru [193.124.85.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22700 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from VexedVox.stud.pu.ru (root@localhost) by gw.pu.ru (8.6.10/8.6.6) with UUCP id CAA02110 for FreeBSD.ORG!freebsd-hackers; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:27:35 +0300 Organization: SPb State University Received: (from root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA21388; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:35:45 +0300 From: Alexey Pialkin Message-Id: <199603080735.KAA21388@localhost> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: uriah.heep.sax.de!joerg_wunsch@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:35:44 +0000 (WET) Cc: FreeBSD.ORG!freebsd-hackers@VexedVox.stud.pu.ru In-Reply-To: <199603080007.BAA18105@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 8, 96 01:07:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > BTW, i am interesting in this too. I would like to use FreeBSD for some > > experiments in graphics and i _really_ don't whant to use 'X'.. > > 'X' are really slow on my 486/8... > > X does even run on my 386/16 with 5 MB. > > As long as you only want the functionality you've been describing, who > tells you that you gotta start ten xterms, a window manager, a > Netscape, and an Emacs? > X-s - are nice until i start to develop something :(( Looks like someone get 2-5 mb RAM from my computer :((( I believe that you can use dozens of xterms,Netscapes & so on on on 5 mb comp. -but i don't believe that all this will work fast :) > The Xserver itself and the application you're going to develop don't > eat up that much memory. If you're going to use a full-screen DGA 2 mb - X-s,and ?? mb my program :((( > application, you might even omit the window manager. For the extra > megabyte you're paying, you get support for several dozens of graphics > cards. Hmm.. I don't like X-s at all. May be they are nice for Netscaping - but in game/demo modeling they are zero. IMHO. -- Alexey Pialkin From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 15:40:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA23373 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23360 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06876; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:42:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:42:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199603082342.SAA06876@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Act Now ! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> [huge 'Voice On Net' article deleted] >> >> The point being, if use of the internet stopped being an experiemental >> tool and became one tenth as popular as, say, the web browsers, the >> internet would stop being useful as a communications medium. The >> bandwidth ain't there, and if it was, the swithcing point bandwidth isn't >> there either. The internet isn't a viable option for massive replacement >> of our telephone network. It's fine for experimenters, and I've been one >> of them, but if it stopped being experimental, and everybody joined in, >> this would be a disaster. > >On the other hand, the main problem with the ability of the telephone >network to handle bandwidth is the fact that it uses circuit switching >so that it can generate accounting records and bill by time rather >than by pipeline size (this is also why the phone comapnies are >puching ISDN so hard, even though Frame Relay scales better to 128k >or higher data rates). [some chest-beating deleted] Actually, the phone companies want no part of "flat rate ISDN", as in order to price it low enough to beat out competitors they'd have to substantially cannibalize their own lucrative private line business. Why would they want to sell flat rate 64k ISDN service for less than they are charging for 56k private lines? why should they charge less than twice as much for 128k? You forget that phone companies are in the business of making money (a concept not known on this list), and they make most of their money on metering services. Since ISDN is not statistically multiplexed (like frame relay), the backbone bandwidth must be sufficient to handle 100% utilization of established sessions, and there is no money to be made on low-priced flat rate service, particularly when the 24X7s are perfectly willing to pay for private line services. With metered service they have another product to offer residential "surfers". With flat rate service they just have another private line product that competes with their other services. I think that when the dust settles, and the legal situation that makes nonsense out of current service offerings, you'll find that flat rate ISDN pricing will fall right in line with private line pricing for 56, frac T1 and T1. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:03:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA24760 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21413 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20773 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20720 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from juliet.wcom.com (juliet.wiltel.com [165.122.210.60]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA01802 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:07:22 -0800 Received: from intruder (actually host intruder.wiltel.com) by juliet.wiltel.com; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:39:06 -0600 Received: from catalina.wiltel.com by intruder with SMTP id AA18684 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:35:20 -0600 Received: by catalina.wiltel.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA01822; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:40:43 -0600 Message-Id: <9603082140.AA01822@catalina.wiltel.com> To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SMP Reply-To: lance.heller@wcom.com Date: Fri, 08 Mar 96 15:40:42 -0600 From: Lance Heller X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does or will FreeBSD support symmetric multi-processing?? -Lance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lance Heller | Network Development Engineering | LDDS WorldCom email: lance.heller@wcom.com | One Williams Center phone: (918)590-5612 | Tulsa, OK 74172 fax : (918)590-0285 | MailStop: 25-2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:09:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25311 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:09:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22098 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21919 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from zappa.cs.uncc.edu (zappa.cs.uncc.edu [152.15.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21901 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by zappa.cs.uncc.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA15305; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:09:54 -0500 From: jlrobins@zappa.cs.uncc.edu (James Robinson) Message-Id: <9603082309.AA15305@zappa.cs.uncc.edu> Subject: Working cmdtool ??? To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:09:53 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Howdy: Does anyone have a working copy of the XView program cmdtool? I've repeatedly tried to build the XView packages, but unfortunately cmdtool builds, but does not run properly under 2.1-stable. Whenever I hit return at the prompt, it goes nutso crazy, as if I were repeatedly hitting return over and over until I hit ^C. Likewise if I invoke a command -- it operates over and over again -- not good :-( . I have a feeling that this is a problem within the XView tty code interacting with FreeBSD's pty implementation. I've even gone so far back as to try out the cmdtool found on the FreeBSD 1.1 CD's xview-bin proto-package. Same effect. Any hints would be appreciated! James From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:12:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25684 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21702 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21159 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21118 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA26825 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:25:52 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I23QYGIZ80000CDZ@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:19:33 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04681; Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:22:39 +0100 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:22:38 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Boot with 4 hard disks In-reply-to: <9603081540.AA03965@vidigal.nce.ufrj.br> To: pedrosal@nce.ufrj.br (Pedro Salenbauch) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, pedrosal@nce.ufrj.br Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199603081622.RAA04681@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Dear Mrs/Sirs: > > I have 4 hard disks (2 IDE and 2 SCSI), and installed FreeBSD on the > second SCSI disk. How do I boot there? Either disable the IDE disks in the BIOS/CMOS or use the hd(0,a)/kernel option in the FreeBSD boot.The latter requiring to label the IDE disks with a FreeBSD label and write a boot block to it. > > Thank you, > Pedro Salenbauch > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:20:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26480 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21808 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21318 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21284 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA24941 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:19:25 -0800 Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa11005; 8 Mar 96 8:20 EST Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 08:20:42 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Hovey To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.com Subject: signal 11 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Someone resently sent email on signal 11 problems. Ive been getting them too on 2.1-R - but only on one of them - which is the only one running the sco emulation stuff. The program doing this is a simple count program for web pages that reads in a value, increments it, prints to stdout and writes the new value to the file - very small, basic and simple - and it doesnt happen all the time. I suspect the sco emulation stuff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:25:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26967 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24031 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24008 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from prop (prop.caribnet.net [205.214.195.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23950 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 19:52 GMT-0400 From: monrose@caribnet.net (David Monrose) To: questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: IDE ATAPI INTERFACE X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk TIf you guys have the latest IDE drivers available pleasessee for copy. During startup FreeBSD is seeing the IDE controller on device wd1 wdc1 but failes init the mitsiumi cd rom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:28:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27256 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:28:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23972 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA23853 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tad.cetlink.net (root@tad-external.cetlink.net [206.31.104.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA23847 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:51:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tad.cetlink.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA06086 for questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:51:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199603082351.SAA06086@tad.cetlink.net> Subject: amanda config help To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 18:51:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Charlie ROOT" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-Type: text X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, Could some kind soul possibly email me a copy of their amanda config files for use with an HP35480A dat drive? Thanks in advance! -jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:29:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27369 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24068 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24041 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24034 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14584(3)>; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:12 PST Received: from johngalt.mc.xerox.com (johngalt.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00613; Fri, 8 Mar 96 18:52:11 EST Received: by johngalt.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06651; Fri, 8 Mar 96 18:52:09 EST Message-Id: <9603082352.AA06651@johngalt.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: robmel@innotts.co.uk (Robin Melville) Cc: Michael Smith , questions@FreeBSD.org, Stephen Hovey Subject: Re: Need rpc.rlockd -- any chance of finding it? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 01:50:31 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:52:03 PST From: "Marty Leisner" X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Michael, > > Thanks for your blindingly rapid response to my query! > > At 11:38 am 8/3/96, Michael Smith wrote: > >Robin Melville stands accused of saying: > >... > >There are two answers here : > > > >The first is : Abandon NFS for your PCs (and if possible, Macs as well). > >I would _strongly_ advise experimenting with the 'samba' package that's > >in the ports collection. This will provide markedly superior performance, > >and as a side effect, get around the original problem. > > Interesting idea, but I'm reluctant to move to multi-protocol networking. We need TCP/IP for SQL client/server work. NFS seems an elegant solution to file sharing too, and works cheerfully and quickly in its current implementation (on the SCO box). > I think I agree..samba is RFC1001 (IP) based, so why is it "multi-protocol?" Lan-manager integrates nicely in with windows...I don't think nfs is so clean... > -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:29:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27426 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27408 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA00318; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:28:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199603090028.QAA00318@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 07:53:26 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 16:28:18 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk You can build a server and do whatever you want with it and have a very nice library 8) Once again folks, hackers is not the appropiate forum for some of this discussions , you shall post to either the freebsd-multimedia or the xfree86 mailing list. Amancio >>> "Ron G. Minnich" said: > The thing i've kicked around from time to time is building the X server > as a library. I.e. i want to mess with the card directly, I realize that > there's a lot of value in the x server as regards hardware control, but i > want direct access with no IPC in the middle. If i had the x server as > libxserver.a > then i could hijack the server and make it do something else. You would > mainly want to toss the X IPC protocol stuff. > > ron > > Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does > rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale > (609)-734-3120 | > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 16:44:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28973 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28963 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 16:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA18602 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:44:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199603090044.RAA18602@boom.vars.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD or BSDI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 15:32:33 PST." <199603082332.PAA22797@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=05448C39 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:44:13 -0700 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > [ Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. ] >Which is how it limits this kind of support... Sure you can tell someone >what to do to fix something, but, you can't give them the sources to fix >a faulty program... >8-). > [ Terry Lambert ] > >Once you find the answer and fix it, can you give them a binary patch? > [ Dennis ] >I guess you could, however it makes more sense to submit it to >BSDI and let them do it officially. Much of our kernel and utility code is 4.4lite so you can make fixes, share them, whatever. I don't think its appropriate for me to post the whole license here, but its very liberal in such matters. One paragraph that stands out: [you have the right to] Modify the source code form of the Licensed Program. You own all modifications that you make to the Licensed Program but you must respect the original copyrights included in modified works. You may not redistribute BSDI copyrighted code to non-BSDI licensees. Note that much of our kernel and user code (like FreeBSD) is copyrighted with the Berkeley Copyright so hacking it and posting the diffs or complete sources is just fine. The only place you can't freely post/share copies of full source modules is when we've written them and copyrighted them as such, but even then you can always post diffs (even in a public forum). Also, even on "binary" releases you get lots of source (for all the user mode "contributed" programs and for chunks of the kernel based on contributed code, such as the sound drivers). - -Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBMUDUXDxFdSMFRIw5AQFqsQP/RqiSb//OAEbYAMxqEZiepVvJrA1u8vnE OClRN+LHBy3D9zvCO1WgSdB04PFzUkzqWrxwfvVkIS6bIGV+ZROoWw63Y2sdyIiu PEZgYYZ47ZwN+/Qd1VLWdG9qiEogmtYE4OZxnkNtGLaoiATq0obKOsyjXvNTx9K8 Mq+SjWJbxGg= =PzIP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 17:08:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00581 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00402 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00362 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00357 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA22033; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:03:10 -0800 (PST) To: lance.heller@wcom.com cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SMP In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 1996 15:40:42 CST." <9603082140.AA01822@catalina.wiltel.com> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 17:03:10 -0800 Message-ID: <22031.826333390@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It does not at this time, I'm afraid! Jordan > > Does or will FreeBSD support symmetric multi-processing?? > > > -Lance > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Lance Heller | > Network Development Engineering | LDDS WorldCom > email: lance.heller@wcom.com | One Williams Center > phone: (918)590-5612 | Tulsa, OK 74172 > fax : (918)590-0285 | MailStop: 25-2 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 17:33:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02859 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:33:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02852 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA11488 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:11:32 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603090141.MAA11488@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: ARGH!@ Someone with root on freefall please! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:11:32 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ... do something about the pingpong mailwar going on... Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20624 for questions-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20598 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:21:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA28924 (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 01:11:23 +0300 Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA03634 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 00:42:54 +0300 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02965 Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02819 for questions-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:36:48 -0800 (PST) I'm getting incredibly sick of reading the same messages over and again 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 17:40:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03494 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03483 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603090140.RAA03483@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-hackers From: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Majordomo results Reply-To: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk -- >>>> unsubscribe freebsd-questions Succeeded. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 19:03:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10156 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10151 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id OAA18229; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:02:30 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199603090302.OAA18229@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine To: postmaster@okbmei.msk.su Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:02:30 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 7, 96 05:06:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Could someone please fix this .. it's causing duplicate messages all over the shop :-( > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sat Mar 9 13:54:41 1996 > Received: from x.physics.usyd.edu.au (x.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.25]) > by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) with ESMTP > id NAA18055 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:54:40 +1100 > Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by x.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12663; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:54:29 +1100 > Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29580 > Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:31 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29551 > for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:22 -0800 (PST) > Received: from ns.okbmei.msk.su (ns.okbmei.msk.su [194.190.170.40]) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29546 > for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:41:17 -0800 (PST) > Received: from kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su with UUCP id AA01218 > (5.67c8/IDA-1.5); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:13:37 +0300 > Received: from freefall.FreeBSD.ORG by sovcom.kiae.su with SMTP id AA21587 > (5.65.kiae-1 for ); Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:07:56 +0300 > Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19374 > Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA18619 > for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:11:04 -0800 (PST) > Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18588 > for ; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:10:59 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA15152; Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 > From: Terry Lambert > Message-Id: <199603080006.RAA15152@phaeton.artisoft.com> > Subject: Re: Proper FreeBSD news machine > To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) > Cc: imb@scgt.oz.au, mtaylor@cybernet.com, hackers@freebsd.org > In-Reply-To: <199603071933.GAA04954@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 8, 96 06:33:19 am > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Charset: KOI8-R > X-Char-Esc: 29 > Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org > Precedence: bulk > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 19:12:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10609 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03241 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03222 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03213 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA11523; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:15:13 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603090145.MAA11523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: internal modem question To: chx0@mail.opensol.com.ar (CHX0) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:15:13 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603072359.UAA01953@mail.opensol.com.ar> from "CHX0" at Mar 7, 96 08:59:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk CHX0 stands accused of saying: > > I've hooked an internal modem to a 2.1.0 freebsd box as COM3. Any > attempts to "cu" the modem and set its registers were unsuccessful. I > want to use it for uucp or as dialup terminal. > > I've tried putting a line in /etc/ttys that says > > ttyd2 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" dialup on > > and tried "cu -l cuaa2" without success. Any "cu" to every /dev/cu* device > yields the same message, for example: > > cu: open (/dev/cuaa0): Device not configured > cu: cuaa0: Line in use > > I have under /dev cuaa0 to cuaa3, cuaia0 to cuaia3 and cuala0 to cuala3, and > have tried them all. > > Anybody knows how to proceed ? Boot with -c, say 'flags sio2 0x80', then 'quit', and send us the probe messages for sio2. You can get at them after the ssytem has booted with the 'dmesg' command. I suspect your internal modem is failing to respond quickly enough to be probed; this is a common fault which reflects very poorly on the modem's manufacturer. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 19:21:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11471 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02344 Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:28:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02306 for questions-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02299 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 17:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA11451; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:04:47 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603090134.MAA11451@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Serial console? To: mdz@netrail.net (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:04:46 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Matt Zimmerman" at Mar 7, 96 06:56:53 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: owner-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Matt Zimmerman stands accused of saying: > > Has any work been done on adapting a console driver to talk VT100/220 on a > serial port, rather than using the keyboard and VGA? If not, does anyone > have any comments on what would be involved? Input shouldn't be too > difficult, but I don't know much about how output is handled in the > current setup. options COMCONSOLE in your kernel config, rebuild, reboot. > // Matt Zimmerman Chief of System Management NetRail, Inc. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 20:53:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA17897 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [205.164.111.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17892 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from angio@localhost) by shell.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) id VAA06174; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:53:57 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199603090453.VAA06174@shell.aros.net> Subject: Re: Radius server To: radova@baobab.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:53:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9603081136.AA10892@baobab.unisa.ac.za> from "A. Radovanovic" at Mar 8, 96 01:36:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I do, and it works like a charm. What kinds of problems are you experiencing with it? You compiled with -lcrypt, did you also use -DNOSHADOW? That should be all that's necessary to get it to work, but I could be forgetting something I did. :) (Also, if you cc your reply to the list, CC: it to freebsd-questions instead of hackers, it's a somewhat more appropriate list to be anal about it. :) -Dave Andersen Lo and behold, A. Radovanovic once said: > > Does anybody runs the Livingstone radius server? I compiled it > with crypt library but it seems it doesn't work. > > Alex > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 20:57:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA18482 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18476 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06383; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA02112; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:50 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Steve Khoo cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6 possible? In-Reply-To: <199603080136.RAA18436@hermes.gordian.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Steve Khoo wrote: > Is it possible to make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6, or is this > still broken? This seems kinda strange to me. I don't think something is broken unless it worked (or was supposed to) at some time. pgcc, except for some isolated folks that have hacked it in on their own systems, has never been integrated into current. Whether or not to do this is still a matter of discussion ... maybe you want to register another opinion? Although I think something like that actually belongs on FreeBSD-chat. > > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 21:01:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA18919 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA18912 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:01:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603090501.VAA18912@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA214307769; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:02:50 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: archie@tribe.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:02:49 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603080159.RAA13621@bubba.tribe.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Mar 7, 96 05:59:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I'm in very strong agreement with this sentiment!! > > The fact that MS-DOS has a better fdisk program than FreeBSD is shameful. > While we're at it, how about integrating the booteasy functionality? > Personally, I miss Linux's LILO very much. Well, actually I still use it > instead of booteasy. I don't think LILO is anywhere near as good as booteasy. For one, there's only a Unix/Linux interface, AFAIK. Another, is LILO doesn't give a menu (by default). I can boot everything but Linux with booteasy, across two HD's. Why do we need LILO ? :-) darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 21:02:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA18982 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGS.dgsys.com (root@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18973 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from steffi.dgsys.com by DGS.dgsys.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06721; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:02:09 -0500 Received: (from robert@localhost) by steffi.dgsys.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id AAA03133; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:01:19 -0500 (EST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I'm sad to say that the position of WEBMASTER is now open.. References: <18561.826283673@time.cdrom.com> From: robert@steffi.dgsys.com (Robert Nicholson) Date: 09 Mar 1996 00:01:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Fri, 08 Mar 1996 03:14:33 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: x Lines: 19 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Does everybody's browser require that you hit the submit button in the Search area on www.freebsd.org? Mine can cope with POST method without requiring this but when you use the GET method I always have to hit the button instead of just hit return in the text field. Just a thought. I might be because there's a second textfield for the limit that's causing me my problems. But Yes, I'm not using Netscape under NeXTSTEP. -- "Under the circumstances I will sit down." (PGP key: send email with Subject: request pgp key) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 21:04:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA19287 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA19276 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:04:29 -0800 (PST) From: StevenR362@aol.com Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA00979; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:05:19 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:05:19 -0500 Message-ID: <960309000518_345746242@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IDE performance Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-03-08 18:13:30 EST, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) writes: >Can someone tell me why my IDE disk (WDC AC31600, 1.6GB) mounted >on the primary IDE (together with a slave ATAPI CDROM) runs at >5.5MB/s (both with iozone 128 8192 and with bonnie, block transfer), >and the same disk on the secondary IDE does "just" little more than >3.1MB/s ? > >This is on a Pentium100, Intel Zappa MB with built-in IDE controller, >32MB ram, 2.1R. The wdc driver is compiled with flags 0x80ff80ff on >both primary and secondary interfaces. > >Is this a feature of the motherboard, or something in the kernel ? >(or just because IDE sucks... :) I don't know about the Zappa MB's, but the Intel Plato motherboards state in their documentation that the primary IDE interface is PCI and that the secondary one is ISA. This would probably account for the performance difference. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 22:00:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA23453 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from gordius.gordian.com (gordius.gordian.com [192.73.220.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23448 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:00:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.gordian.com (hermes.gordian.com [192.73.220.111]) by gordius.gordian.com (8.7.4/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA18120; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by hermes.gordian.com (8.7.2/8.6.9) id WAA29466; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:00:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:00:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603090600.WAA29466@hermes.gordian.com> From: Steve Khoo To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Chuck Robey on Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:50 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6 possible? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Robey writes: Chuck> On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Steve Khoo wrote: >> Is it possible to make world with pgcc-2.7.2.6, or is this >> still broken? Chuck> This seems kinda strange to me. I don't think something is Chuck> broken unless it worked (or was supposed to) at some time. Chuck> pgcc, except for some isolated folks that have hacked it in Chuck> on their own systems, has never been integrated into Hmmm... I guess I was mistaken in my believe that someone out there had successfully done a make world and built the kernel with pgcc after some minor patches. I thought the patches were incorporated into the pgcc-2.7.2.6 port. Chuck> current. Whether or not to do this is still a matter of Chuck> discussion ... maybe you want to register another opinion? No strong opinion on that. Maybe we should just got to a P6 optimized compiler. ;^> Chuck> Although I think something like that actually belongs on Chuck> FreeBSD-chat. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 23:09:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA28718 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28712 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA09210; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:08:17 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:08:16 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: non-ANSI network #defines... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is trivial, but I figured I would report it irregardless :) When using ntohs and/or htons with gcc -pedantic, the following warning is reported: warning: ANSI C forbids braced-groups within expressions -Brandon Gillespie- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 23:11:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA28829 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:11:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA28801 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:11:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603090711.XAA28801@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA249175538; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:12:18 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IDE performance To: StevenR362@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:12:18 +1100 (EDT) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <960309000518_345746242@emout09.mail.aol.com> from "StevenR362@aol.com" at Mar 9, 96 00:05:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hmm, I don't know how useful iozone is for testing raw disk io, but with dd, I can get a reasonable indication: # time dd if=/dev/rwd0s1 of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=32 32+0 records in 32+0 records out 33554432 bytes transferred in 10 secs (3355443 bytes/sec) 0.000u 0.142s 0:09.64 1.4% 83+2426k 0+0io 0pf+0w # time dd if=/dev/rwd2s1 of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=32 32+0 records in 32+0 records out 33554432 bytes transferred in 5 secs (6710886 bytes/sec) 0.006u 0.122s 0:05.35 2.2% 139+3784k 0+0io 0pf+0w # dd if=/dev/rwcd0c of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=32 32+0 records in 32+0 records out 33554432 bytes transferred in 55 secs (610080 bytes/sec) wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, iordis wcd0: 689Kb/sec, 128Kb cache, audio play, 256 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: medium type unknown, unlocked wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd2: 1549MB (3173184 sectors), 3148 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S I wonder, can the CD-ROM's presence slow down the entire bus ? darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 23:55:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00603 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (gavin@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph [165.220.8.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00597 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gavin@localhost) by ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA24038; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:01:03 +0800 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:01:02 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: Gavin Chan Lim To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Weird problem. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Given the pid of a process, is there any way of finding the executable file (including complete path) of this process? ============================================================================== Gavin Lim Gavin@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 8 23:57:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00761 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00754 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 1996 23:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by localhost (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA08203; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:02:37 +0200 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:02:36 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Welcome to freebsd-questions In-Reply-To: <199603082253.OAA18647@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk What the hell does this mean? Is there any purpose behind this or is it just a bad joke? I feel getting all the messages 2 or 3 times is quite enough - but getting the questions messages in addition to the digests is a bit too bad... Sander Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Fri, 8 Mar 1996 Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: > -- > > Welcome to the freebsd-questions mailing list! > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG" with the following command > in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe freebsd-questions freebsd-hackers > > Here's the general information for the list you've > subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: > > FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions > This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not > send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the > question to be pretty technical. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 00:25:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA02094 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02083 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id QAA00535 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:27:02 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 9 Mar 96 07:32:17 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: , <199603071649.JAA14066@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) writes: >> > Uh, what exactly would 2.2 have, then, if none of the planned major >> > features made it in? >> > >> > Something like that should be called 2.1.1, not 2.2.0, IMO... >> >> At least it would have the improved VM code, Paul's new cool malloc(), >> better Linux emulation, and a newer ports collection. Even with no other >> features, this is at least deserving of 2.1.5, if not 2.2.0. Also, >> remember that -current has been a separate branch of the tree, with many >> improvements stretching back to six months before 2.1.0-RELEASE! >> >> Or we could do like Microsoft and wantonly bump version numbers at will. >> I know, let's call it FreeBSD 4.0 to keep it in version parity with >> Windows 95.. ;-) Recent MS examples: Office 95 (all programs were >> bumped to 7.0, even though Word was 6.0 and Powerpoint was 4.0 formerly), >> and Visual C++ (which went from 2.2 to 4.0 to keep it in parity with >> MFC).. The point I'm trying to make is that version numbers are >> ultimately arbitrary; I think it would be foolish to bump it up to >> 3.0-RELEASE if we didn't add any major features, but there's nothing >> stopping us. 2.2-RELEASE sounds perfectly fine. >I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same >as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. Dont forget, doing a side release branch is a trememdous amount of work, as I'm sure David G. will testify to. All effort spent on the side-branch is directly taken away from major features in -current. >We've already established the value of a 0.0.5 increment. >What I think the improvements you noted represent is ~0.0.1 compared >to the increment change for 2.1.0. The improvements noted are only a small fraction of what's been going on. There are a lot of general cleanups and improvements in -current that have been done and largely glossed over. Dont forget that -current and -stable diverged at 2.0.5 release. They have been diverging so much that backporting stuff from -current into -stable is starting to consume a non-trivial amount of effort. >I think a 2.1.5 would have to include fixes to the install process >(without breaking gzip image loading). >I think a 2.2.0 would need to include the PCMCIA support and the >4.4BSD-Lite2 integration, which were announced for it. I hear that the 4.4Lite-2 integration for the kernel is basically done and due for commit any minute now. An interesting point: If the -stable branch was not consuming the amount of maintainence time that it has been, we'd most likely _have_ 4.4Lite-2 and PCMCIA integration, as well as a greatly debugged vm, vfs and kernel. It's unfortunate that "real-world" constraints required things to be done the way they were. :-( >Just my opinions, though... Also, dont forget that things like FS layering, VFS cleanups, etc are being put off because of the amount of effort being diverted to maintaining the older code trees. Since these are very dear to your heart, I'd expect you'd be the last person suggesting diverting more effort away from what might have been spent looking at the changes you want to make. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 00:32:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA02353 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02347 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 00:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.6.12) id QAA00938 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:34:56 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 9 Mar 96 08:28:34 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <9603082140.AA01822@catalina.wiltel.com> Subject: Re: SMP Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk lheller@catalina.wiltel.com (Lance Heller) writes: > >Does or will FreeBSD support symmetric multi-processing?? > > -Lance We have some old code to do it, but it desperately needs to be updated to work with the more recent kernels. The main holdup is getting hold of a 2-CPU motherboard for one of us to finish the code and polish it to a level that we could live with. :-) Cheers, -Peter >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Lance Heller | >Network Development Engineering | LDDS WorldCom > email: lance.heller@wcom.com | One Williams Center > phone: (918)590-5612 | Tulsa, OK 74172 > fax : (918)590-0285 | MailStop: 25-2 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 01:40:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA05796 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 01:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA05731 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 01:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA07253; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 01:41:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 01:41:26 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug White Subject: seg fault and strlen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm not sure this is the best place to put it... but is it ok for strlen to seg fault your program when you pass a null pointer to it? just wondering... TTYL... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 02:06:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA07534 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07494 Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:06:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id TAA20034; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 19:05:48 +0900 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 19:05:48 +0900 Message-Id: <199603091005.TAA20034@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [PCMCIA] pccard-test-960308 released From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk We release the new pccard-test package (960308). You can find it at: Anonymous ftp ftp://bash.cc.keio.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD/alpha-test/pccard/pccard-test-960308.tar.gz WWW Homepage http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa/freebsd-pcmcia/ Enjoy! -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 02:14:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA08044 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:14:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08039 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA01464; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:13:58 -0800 (PST) To: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Doug White Subject: Re: seg fault and strlen In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 1996 01:41:26 PST." Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 02:13:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1462.826366437@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure this is the best place to put it... but is it ok for strlen > to seg fault your program when you pass a null pointer to it? just Yes, it is. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 02:27:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA08649 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:27:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08641 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I24T1FX8B4000DXI@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Sat, 09 Mar 1996 11:30:01 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01124 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 09 Mar 1996 11:33:12 +0100 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 11:33:12 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: bounds checking gcc To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199603091033.LAA01124@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does anyone know about the bounds checking feature of gcc-2.7.2? I picked up a mail in a different mail list where someone writes the following: "I compiled libtiff under linux with Bounds Checking GCC v 2.7.2 - 1.02 (which has the very cool -fbounds-checking option) and the program I run keeps barfing at:" Wouldn't that a nice feature for further code cleanup? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 02:35:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA09228 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from chaini.sita.kiev.ua (sita-carrier.sita.kiev.ua [193.124.50.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA08674 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 02:27:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tav.kiev.ua (tav-sita.tav.kiev.ua [194.135.250.33]) by chaini.sita.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with ESMTP id MAA25184 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:29:26 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by tav.kiev.ua (8.6.12/5) id MAA18336 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:15:33 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Oleg N Panashchenko Organization: Maxis Labs Date: Sat, 9 Mar 96 12:15:32 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: Changes in Digiboard driver X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have made several patches to digiboard PC/X driver to make it stable under 2.1. They are available at ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/dgb_helg-Feb19.tgz ftp.tav.kiev.ua/pub/unix/FreeBSD/dgb_helg-Feb19.tgz Several sites use these patches, so they are (possibly) candidates to -stable. Shoud I apply them to -current? Is anybody else using digiboard under FreeBSD to give me any response? Oleg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 03:04:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA10592 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:04:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA10586 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02867 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:04:12 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PCMCIA] pccard-test-960308 released In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 1996 19:05:48 +0900." <199603091005.TAA20034@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 03:04:12 -0800 Message-ID: <2865.826369452@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Thanks, Tatsumi-san! I've copied this also to ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/incoming and deleted the old versions. Jordan > We release the new pccard-test package (960308). > > You can find it at: > > Anonymous ftp > ftp://bash.cc.keio.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD/alpha-test/pccard/pccard-test-960308. tar.gz > > WWW Homepage > http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa/freebsd-pcmcia/ > > Enjoy! > > -- > HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp > WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html > Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 03:31:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12173 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12150 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:31:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA15243; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:25:56 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199603091125.MAA15243@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: IDE performance To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:25:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: StevenR362@aol.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603090706.IAA14976@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Darren Reed" at Mar 9, 96 06:11:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Hmm, I don't know how useful iozone is for testing raw disk io, but with > dd, I can get a reasonable indication: > > wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa > wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, iordis > wcd0: 689Kb/sec, 128Kb cache, audio play, 256 volume levels, ejectable tray > wcd0: medium type unknown, unlocked > wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa > wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 > wd2: 1549MB (3173184 sectors), 3148 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > > I wonder, can the CD-ROM's presence slow down the entire bus ? Don't think so. I get top speed when the drive is on the same cable as the CDROM. I believe that the 850MB disk is slower (as it is the 1GB unit compared to the 1.6GB model). Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 03:45:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12893 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:45:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA12886 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603091145.DAA12886@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA004092021; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 22:47:01 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: atapi from netbsd... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 22:47:00 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is there anything wrong with the current ATAPI driver ? THe code at least appears more complete, at the moment: FreeBSD 2.1.0: wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, iordis wcd0: 689Kb/sec, 128Kb cache, audio play, 256 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: medium type unknown, unlocked NetBSD 1.1 + ATAPI: atapibus0 at wdc0 atapibus0 drive1: cdrom, removable. acd0 at atapibus0 drive 1: drive empty (There is a CD-ROM in the drive at this point...) # mount /cdrom cd0(wdc0:1): unit attention, command: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 (only happens the first time). If people want to work on the NetBSD stuff to make that work, by all means, but it looks like it needs it before it is equivalent with what is currently being distributed. darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 03:57:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15139 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15134 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 03:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) id MAA09232; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:57:12 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA26778; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:30:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199603091130.MAA26778@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Wilson MacGyver cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-reply-to: macgyver's message of Thu, 07 Mar 1996 12:11:04 -0500. <313F18A8.3DBFAAF4@cylatech.com> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 12:30:47 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > J Wunsch wrote: > > You can mmap() the frame buffer, but have a look at the ten thousands > > lines of code in the XFree86 Xserver that deal with every and each > > hardware idiosyncrasy of the various not-really-compatible graphics > > cards. I'm sure, you'll immediately give up your idea. > > > > Your best bet by the time the next release of XFree86/tm will be out > > is to use their ``DGA'' (direct graphics access ?) Xserver extension. > > well, I'd really like to avoid using X if at all possible. The > company I work for is working on a game (for DOS). As the > developementing is progressing, I want to be able to first port > what we've done to FreeBSD, and possbilly do my part of development > on FreeBSD. The way I see it, first I'd have to implment a library > to handle direct video access, much like the svgalib on Linux. > And frankly, I'm lost as to where to start. I thought we had libsvga working in part, Joerg? Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 04:09:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA15806 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 04:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA15800 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 04:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA05522; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 04:09:24 -0800 (PST) To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: atapi from netbsd... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 1996 22:47:00 +1100." <199603091145.DAA12886@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 04:09:23 -0800 Message-ID: <5520.826373363@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there anything wrong with the current ATAPI driver ? It doesn't support all the types of drives we'd like, but it's more complete than the NetBSD offering in that it does support audio. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 05:25:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA21882 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 05:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA21866 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 05:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA13154; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:03:20 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603091333.AAA13154@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: seg fault and strlen To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:03:20 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Mar 9, 96 01:41:26 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk John-Mark Gurney stands accused of saying: > > I'm not sure this is the best place to put it... but is it ok for strlen > to seg fault your program when you pass a null pointer to it? just > wondering... TTYL... This one's been done nearly to death in the past. 8) The answer is, yes. It's illegal to pass a null pointer to strlen. A nonexistent string does not have a length, and it's an error for your program to try to determine it. Library functions shouldn't be doing your error checking for you. If they did, performance would suck. As designer of your code, you are in the best position to determine where error conditions may occur, and to trap them appropriately.. If you want to argue about this, go to comp.lang.c, and fish out the ol' asbestos 8) > John-Mark -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 06:21:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA26454 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26402 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA22263 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:21:27 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA27358 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:21:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id OAA00970 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:50:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603091350.OAA00970@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:50:10 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603091130.MAA26778@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> from "Marc van Kempen" at Mar 9, 96 12:30:47 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Marc van Kempen wrote: > I thought we had libsvga working in part, Joerg? Dunno. While i could imagine that it's not too difficult to get it running at 320x200x256 (or 640x400x16 -- but who's really going to deal with that bit-plane crap anymore?), i don't trust the model for any of the more advanced cards. Seeing how much time it costs for the XFree86 folks to keep up with the pace new boards are being marketed each day, how is libsvga supposed to do this? In addition, more and more people are running X11 anyway, so why force them to switch back to another screen? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 06:23:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA26554 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26547 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA22316 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:03 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA27439 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:02 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id OAA01024 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:56:31 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603091356.OAA01024@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: I'm sad to say that the position of WEBMASTER is now open.. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:56:31 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Robert Nicholson" at Mar 9, 96 00:01:17 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Robert Nicholson wrote: > Does everybody's browser require that you hit the submit > button in the Search area on www.freebsd.org? Mine can cope with POST > method without requiring this but when you use the GET method I always > have to hit the button instead of just hit return in the text field. Ah, Jordan, did you notice? Robert has got ideas about the Web server, so he's really applying for the job of the Webmaster. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 06:23:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA26576 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26553 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA22307 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:00 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA27437 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:00 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id OAA00163 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:06:29 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603091306.OAA00163@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: direct access to video card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:06:29 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199603080735.KAA21388@localhost> from "Alexey Pialkin" at Mar 8, 96 10:35:44 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Alexey Pialkin wrote: > > X does even run on my 386/16 with 5 MB. > > > > As long as you only want the functionality you've been describing, who > > tells you that you gotta start ten xterms, a window manager, a > > Netscape, and an Emacs? > > > > X-s - are nice until i start to develop something :(( Looks like someone > get 2-5 mb RAM from my computer :((( No RAM, only VM space. Of course, if your machine is slow, you should not develop under X11. :) Instead, switch away to a text-mode VT, and the pager will happily page out your X11 stuff into the swap while you are developing. > Hmm.. I don't like X-s at all. May be they are nice for Netscaping - but > in game/demo modeling they are zero. IMHO. I'm rarely using Netcrap. However, i certainly wouldn't consider running a non-X11 game (even if you should care to port it so that it does also run on my ELSA Winner 1000 EISA card), since this means i'd have to leave my normal desktop. Did you ever think about that more and more people are using X11 anyways, not only for Netcrap? To the very least, X11 provides you with a fine abstraction layer from the hardware, and you can let it up to others to adapt this abstraction layer to the fancy new kind of hardware that's popping up on the market each day. (And oh well, it takes several dozens of people to keep up with this.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 06:23:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA26703 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26689 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA22342; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:17 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA27444; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:23:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id PAA01266; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:14:51 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199603091414.PAA01266@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Weird problem. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:14:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: gavin@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph (Gavin Chan Lim) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Gavin Chan Lim" at Mar 9, 96 04:01:02 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Gavin Chan Lim wrote: > > Given the pid of a process, is there any way of finding the executable > file (including complete path) of this process? This is one of the Unix FAQs. No, it's not possible, and nobody could even guarantee you that the pathname is still available. If you don't believe it, consider the following: ./foo & rm -f foo -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 06:59:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00227 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00221 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 06:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA15848; Sat, 9 Mar 96 09:59:05 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id OAA08404; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 14:59:04 GMT Message-Id: <199603091459.OAA08404@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: direct access to video card In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 09 Mar 1996 14:50:10 EDT. <199603091350.OAA00970@uriah.heep.sax.de> Organization: X Consortium Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 09:59:04 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > As Marc van Kempen wrote: > > > I thought we had libsvga working in part, Joerg? > > Dunno. While i could imagine that it's not too difficult to get it > running at 320x200x256 (or 640x400x16 -- but who's really going to > deal with that bit-plane crap anymore?), i don't trust the model for > any of the more advanced cards. Seeing how much time it costs for the > XFree86 folks to keep up with the pace new boards are being marketed > each day, how is libsvga supposed to do this? > > In addition, more and more people are running X11 anyway, so why force > them to switch back to another screen? I think you really want to use the Direct Graphics Access extension that XFree86 now has. Find out more on one of the XFree86 mailing lists. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 08:32:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07106 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 08:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07097 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 08:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA11018; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA02672; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:32:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: bounds checking gcc In-Reply-To: <199603091033.LAA01124@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > Does anyone know about the bounds checking feature of gcc-2.7.2? > I picked up a mail in a different mail list where someone writes > the following: > > "I compiled libtiff under linux with Bounds Checking > GCC v 2.7.2 - 1.02 (which has the very cool > -fbounds-checking option) and the program I run > keeps barfing at:" > > Wouldn't that a nice feature for further code cleanup? I forget the location, but the bounds checking isn't a part of the normal gcc, it's a separate thing that modifies the gcc source. I think it only recently hit the 1.0 revision level. ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 09:31:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11362 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11357 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14714(2)>; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:29:32 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:29:25 -0800 To: Michael Smith cc: lyndon@orthanc.com (Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tcpdump changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 96 04:38:14 PST." <199602291238.XAA24619@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:29:11 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Mar9.092925pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199602291238.XAA24619@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> you write: >Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP stands accused of saying: >> Is there anything out there (expect scripts or the like) that will >> break if the output format of -x changes? Yes. However, >perhaps you could activate it by specifying the 'x' option twice. this is not an insanely bad idea. The idea behind not including an ASCII dump in the first place, as far as I can tell, was vaguely security-related: make it a little harder to use tcpdump to nab passwords... I just use the following perl script, which I call "tcpdumpscii". Bill #!/import/misc/bin/perl # # open(TCPDUMP,"tcpdump -l @ARGV|"); while () { if (/^\s+(\S\S)+/) { $sav = $_; $asc = ""; while (s/\s*(\S\S)\s*//) { $i = hex($1); if ($i < 32 || $i > 126) { $asc .= "."; } else { $asc .= pack(C,hex($1)); } } $foo = "." x length($asc); $_ = $sav; s/\t/ /g; s/^$foo/$asc/; } print; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 10:47:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA15539 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15534 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tvTgE-0004IhC; Sat, 9 Mar 96 10:47 PST Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Darren Reed cc: Archie Cobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-Reply-To: <199603090501.VAA18912@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Darren Reed wrote: > I don't think LILO is anywhere near as good as booteasy. > For one, there's only a Unix/Linux interface, AFAIK. > Another, is LILO doesn't give a menu (by default). > > I can boot everything but Linux with booteasy, across two HD's. > Why do we need LILO ? :-) > > darren BootEasy is much better than LILO, especially since it automagically adapts to new operating systems as you add/remove them. With Linux, you need to reinstall LILO every time you build a new kernel, for God's sake! In fact, even with Linux, I'd rather use booteasy in the MBR, and pass it over to LILO in the Linux root partition to boot that operating system only. But that is different from what Archie and I were saying, namely that even DOS has a better FDISK than FreeBSD! That is far more important than a mere boot loader when it comes time to add/remove partitions. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 11:23:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18053 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18023 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tvUE1-0008sCC; Sat, 9 Mar 96 11:22 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: ISDN To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:22:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603081858.LAA17394@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 8, 96 11:58:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > they actually suggested I pay inter-LADA charges for ISDN before I > got them to admit they had FR. 8-). US West is beyond belief. But that thread doesn't belong here, so I'll leave it at that :-) -- Alan Batie ______ Freedom for me to be and do batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / only what *you* approve of +1 503 452-0960 \ / is no freedom at all. DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 13:32:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26199 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26190 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from globalnet.it (ns.globalnet.it [194.185.53.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA13176 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:59:54 -0800 Received: from linux.local.net (ssigala@line01.globalnet.it [194.185.53.33]) by globalnet.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA31216 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 21:25:11 +0100 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 21:21:22 +0100 (MET) From: S Sigala X-Sender: ssigala@linux.local.net To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SGS/Thomson Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk HI!!!!!!!!! :))) Only a suggestion for your README.TXT file(s) of the O.S. at 'What's FreeBSD?' FreeBSD is ... for Intel, AMD, Cyrix or NexGen "x86" can you add SGS/Thomson to the list, plz ? :)))) Bye .......... .-~-.~-. Sandro Sigala aka [Sun] .-~.-~-. | main(){printf("%c%c%c%c%c%c",72,101,108,108,111,10);} | | Linux: The choice of a GNU generation. | \__oOo__/ Linux: Saving us all from the Gates of Hell. \__oOo__/ ^^^^^ well, FreeBSD in the future :))) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 13:33:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26259 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26253 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA13442 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:33:16 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA21373; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:53:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603092053.NAA21373@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:53:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Peter Wemm" at Mar 9, 96 07:32:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >I'd like to see the code differential from 2.1.0 to 2.1.5 be the same > >as the code differential between 2.0.5 and 2.1.0. > > Dont forget, doing a side release branch is a trememdous amount of work, > as I'm sure David G. will testify to. All effort spent on the side-branch > is directly taken away from major features in -current. I'm actually agruing *against* side releases when a date comes up with planned features not present. I think the "let's do a side release instead" response is unwarranted. > The improvements noted are only a small fraction of what's been going on. > There are a lot of general cleanups and improvements in -current that > have been done and largely glossed over. Dont forget that -current and > -stable diverged at 2.0.5 release. They have been diverging so much that > backporting stuff from -current into -stable is starting to consume a > non-trivial amount of effort. THAT'S when you do a side release; but numbering it higher just to number it higher is a bad thing. > An interesting point: If the -stable branch was not consuming the amount > of maintainence time that it has been, we'd most likely _have_ 4.4Lite-2 > and PCMCIA integration, as well as a greatly debugged vm, vfs and kernel. Yes; I agree that splitting the maintenance from the developement is needed. Having people like John, and David, et al spending time back-porting is a waste of their talents. > Also, dont forget that things like FS layering, VFS cleanups, etc are being > put off because of the amount of effort being diverted to maintaining the > older code trees. Since these are very dear to your heart, I'd expect > you'd be the last person suggesting diverting more effort away from what > might have been spent looking at the changes you want to make. God forbid! 8-). No, I think that if an intermediate release occurs, it should be a sub-point-release; that's all I'm saying. Jacking up the version number makes you want to jack up the creeping features, and that's a *bad* thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 13:40:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27066 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from jhome.DIALix.COM (root@jhome.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA27050 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.DIALix.oz.au (peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by jhome.DIALix.COM (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA03040; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 05:40:36 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199603092140.FAA03040@jhome.DIALix.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: jhome.DIALix.COM: Host peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 1996 13:53:57 MST." <199603092053.NAA21373@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 05:40:35 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [...] >> An interesting point: If the -stable branch was not consuming the amount >> of maintainence time that it has been, we'd most likely _have_ 4.4Lite-2 >> and PCMCIA integration, as well as a greatly debugged vm, vfs and kernel. > >Yes; I agree that splitting the maintenance from the developement is >needed. Having people like John, and David, et al spending time >back-porting is a waste of their talents. Just out of interest, a diff -c between the most recent releases and branches (after stripping $Id$ changes etc) is about this: 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R = about 10MB 2.1.0R -> 2.1-stable = about 6MB 2.1-stable -> 2.2-current = about 17MB. The difference from -stable to -current is heading towards being twice the size of the 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R changes. It should comfortably hit 20MB once good chunks of 4.4Lite2 goes in.. (in case anybody is wondering how to strip $Id$ changes with CVS, use the -kk flag, eg: "cvs -q diff -kk -rRELENG_2_1_0") > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 13:52:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28021 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28012 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:52:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA13512 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:52:14 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA21396; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:59:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603092059.NAA21396@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Weird problem. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:59:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, gavin@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph In-Reply-To: <199603091414.PAA01266@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 9, 96 03:14:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Given the pid of a process, is there any way of finding the executable > > file (including complete path) of this process? > > This is one of the Unix FAQs. No, it's not possible, and nobody could > even guarantee you that the pathname is still available. If you don't > believe it, consider the following: > > ./foo & rm -f foo Well, if it hasn't been deleted, it's possible. But of course, by the time the reverse lookup is complete, it has probably finished running anyway (it's very time consuming, but there is nothing preventing you from writing a program to do it for you). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 13:57:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28378 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28372 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA09173; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:57:29 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199603092157.NAA09173@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:57:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603090501.VAA08753@tribe.com> from "Darren Reed" at Mar 9, 96 04:02:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The fact that MS-DOS has a better fdisk program than FreeBSD is shameful. > > While we're at it, how about integrating the booteasy functionality? > > Personally, I miss Linux's LILO very much. Well, actually I still use it > > instead of booteasy. > > I don't think LILO is anywhere near as good as booteasy. > For one, there's only a Unix/Linux interface, AFAIK. Yes, a graphical interface for configuring would be a big improvement for LILO... but on the other hand, LILO's human readable configuration file, where you can see exactly what you're telling it to do, is a big improvement over the cryptic disklabel command. > Another, is LILO doesn't give a menu (by default). Uh, not a big deal. Press the tab key. > I can boot everything but Linux with booteasy, across two HD's. > Why do we need LILO ? :-) I can boot everything, *including* FreeBSD, with LILO, across two hard disks, one being IDE and the other SCSI. I'm unconvinced that LILO isn't substantially better than booteasy. -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 15:20:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03554 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03268 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 15:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA21387; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:55:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603092055.NAA21387@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: seg fault and strlen To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 13:55:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Mar 9, 96 01:41:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I'm not sure this is the best place to put it... but is it ok for strlen > to seg fault your program when you pass a null pointer to it? just > wondering... TTYL... No, it is not "OK". It is "*REQUIRED*". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 16:54:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10135 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10129 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.gateway.net.hk (gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA14787 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:53:17 -0800 Received: (from john@localhost) by gate.gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.6.12) id IAA22272; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:38:01 +0800 (HKT) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 08:38:01 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: double messages Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am still receiving double messages from this list. I notice that one copy comes by way of kiae.UUCP by ns.okbmei.msk.su. Strange! jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 17:04:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA10847 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:04:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10842 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA14846 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 16:58:49 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00598; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:26:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603100026.RAA00598@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:26:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603092140.FAA03040@jhome.DIALix.COM> from "Peter Wemm" at Mar 10, 96 05:40:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Just out of interest, a diff -c between the most recent releases and branches > (after stripping $Id$ changes etc) is about this: > > 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R = about 10MB > 2.1.0R -> 2.1-stable = about 6MB > 2.1-stable -> 2.2-current = about 17MB. > > The difference from -stable to -current is heading towards being twice the > size of the 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R changes. It should comfortably hit 20MB once > good chunks of 4.4Lite2 goes in.. A 2.1.x release would be based on -stable, not on -current. Since 0.0.5 (2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R) is worth 10M of diffs, that 2M/revision number. That makes -stable, at best, a 2.1.3. 8-). This assumes we go by magnitude for marketing reasons instead of numerically for technical ones (numerically, we'd call it 2.1.1). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 18:21:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA15270 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ter2.fl.net.au (root@ter2.fl.net.au [203.63.198.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15265 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiger.fl.net.au (tiger.fl.net.au [203.63.198.11]) by ter2.fl.net.au (2.0/adf) with SMTP id MAA04978 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 12:24:01 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960310232002.009e8f9c@mail.fl.net.au> X-Sender: adf@mail.fl.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 13:20:02 -1000 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Andrew Foster Subject: Booting. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I've just added an IDE drive to a previously all SCSI system, and I need to have it boot to sd0a every time. Typing : hd(1,a)/kernel At the boot prompt works, but this isn't automated. Could someone tell me how to change this to become the default. Thanks, Andrew Foster First Link Internet Services ----------- Andrew Foster Sydney, Australia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 18:44:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA16747 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16742 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA15647 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:36:28 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00598; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:26:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603100026.RAA00598@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 17:26:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603092140.FAA03040@jhome.DIALix.COM> from "Peter Wemm" at Mar 10, 96 05:40:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Just out of interest, a diff -c between the most recent releases and branches > (after stripping $Id$ changes etc) is about this: > > 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R = about 10MB > 2.1.0R -> 2.1-stable = about 6MB > 2.1-stable -> 2.2-current = about 17MB. > > The difference from -stable to -current is heading towards being twice the > size of the 2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R changes. It should comfortably hit 20MB once > good chunks of 4.4Lite2 goes in.. A 2.1.x release would be based on -stable, not on -current. Since 0.0.5 (2.0.5R -> 2.1.0R) is worth 10M of diffs, that 2M/revision number. That makes -stable, at best, a 2.1.3. 8-). This assumes we go by magnitude for marketing reasons instead of numerically for technical ones (numerically, we'd call it 2.1.1). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 19:27:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19484 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 19:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.gateway.net.hk (root@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA19472 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 19:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gate.gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.6.12) id JAA06159; Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:20:01 +0800 (HKT) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 09:20:01 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Narvi cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Welcome to freebsd-questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I can't tell you how pleased I am to see this message. I just spent half an hour contemplating sinilety. How could I have signed up for questions yesterday and not remembered it? What is going on? jbeukema On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Narvi wrote: > > What the hell does this mean? Is there any purpose behind this or is it > just a bad joke? I feel getting all the messages 2 or 3 times is quite > enough - but getting the questions messages in addition to the digests is > a bit too bad... > > Sander > > > Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) > > On Fri, 8 Mar 1996 Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: > > > -- > > > > Welcome to the freebsd-questions mailing list! > > > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > > you can send mail to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG" with the following command > > in the body of your email message: > > > > unsubscribe freebsd-questions freebsd-hackers > > > > Here's the general information for the list you've > > subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: > > > > FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions > > This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not > > send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the > > question to be pretty technical. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 9 22:26:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA27156 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 22:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from gap (gap.cco.caltech.edu [131.215.139.43]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27150 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 22:26:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by gap (SMI-8.6/DEI:4.45) id WAA13310; Sat, 9 Mar 1996 22:25:46 -0800 To: mlist-freebsd-hackers@nntp-server.caltech.edu Path: nntp-server.caltech.edu!ksh From: ksh@chop.ugcs.caltech.edu (Kevin S. Ho) Newsgroups: mlist.freebsd.hackers Subject: Re: When is 2.2 Estimated to be released? Date: 10 Mar 1996 06:26:18 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena CA Lines: 63 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chop.ugcs.caltech.edu In-reply-to: Jake Hamby's message of Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:47:49 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jake" == Jake Hamby writes: Jake> On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Darren Reed wrote: >> I don't think LILO is anywhere near as good as booteasy. For >> one, there's only a Unix/Linux interface, AFAIK. Another, is >> LILO doesn't give a menu (by default). >> >> I can boot everything but Linux with booteasy, across two HD's. >> Why do we need LILO ? :-) >> >> darren Jake> BootEasy is much better than LILO, especially since it Jake> automagically adapts to new operating systems as you Jake> add/remove them. With Linux, you need to reinstall LILO Jake> every time you build a new kernel, for God's sake! In fact, Jake> even with Linux, I'd rather use booteasy in the MBR, and Jake> pass it over to LILO in the Linux root partition to boot Jake> that operating system only. The flaw in LILO is partially due to it's design, in that it is meant to be all bootloaders, that is to say not only does it select partitions, but it also, at the same time, selects kernels, and kernel options, which causes the crockery inherent in it. when lilo is first loaded, it pops itself up like a bootblock, and then reads currently stored information about *everything*. The benefit of having a booteasy/freebsd boot pair is that it conceptually discriminates between the two (a partition selector, and a bootimage selector), however, the bootimage selector is a far more useable piece of software. It would be nice if instead of the "here's a Fkey, decide", booteasy could be configured to read named partitions, so that the most common ones can be called by Fkey, but all can be called by name (like lilo), possibly with tab completion/uniqueness (not full tab-to-difference completion, but simple tabcomplete-if-unique), so it would print something like this: BootEasy 11.38.foo.bar F1 - FreeBSD (hd0a) F2 - Linux (hd1ba) F3 - NetBSD (hd1b) boot: from here, one can press an Fkey, or type in a name of a partition (bios type partition, not BSD slice), with naming convention thusly: [hf]d[0-9][a-(foo)]? | | | \__ name of logical drive if the previous is | | | an extended partition, otherwise nonexistent, | | | it's incorrect regexp syntax, but doing it | | | the fully correct way would be an eyesore | | | | | \__ the partition name (numbering goes 0-3 for primary) | | | \____ the drive number (bios) | \____ hard drive or floppy drive. I'd actually be interested in helping to write this code, as I think it would be a great improvement to the bootloader. ksh