From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 12:37:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16516 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dirac.phys.washington.edu (dirac.phys.washington.edu [128.95.93.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16511 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dirac.phys.washington.edu (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/UW-NDC Revision: 2.25 ) id MAA26086; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:37:14 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:37:14 -0700 From: "William R. Somsky" Message-Id: <199606231937.MAA26086@dirac.phys.washington.edu> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.com Subject: Will a SB 16 PnP work with FreeBSD? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm in the process of buying an new computer system to run FreeBSD for work/programming and Win95/DOS for games :-) Now, I know that the SoundBlaster 16 is pretty much a standard for games and that FreeBSD knows how to talk to it. However, what about the new PnP varieties? Does the PnP interfere with it's use from FreeBSD? These things use software to set things like IRQ's, right? Does this need to be done each time the system is powered on? Or do the settings get stored non-volitily (sp?), and would only have to be set once? And what about the SB 16 Vibra/OEM versions? Are they just as good? Better? To be avoided? Any help here would be useful... Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________ William R. Somsky somsky@phys.washington.edu Department of Physics, Box 351560 B432 Physics-Astro Bldg Univ. of Washington, Seattle WA 98195-1560 206/616-2954 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 13:20:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19056 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19050; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199606232020.NAA19050@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Mixing SIMMs of different speeds To: nash@mcs.com Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606222041.PAA13207@zen.nash.org> from "Alex Nash" at Jun 22, 96 03:41:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alex Nash wrote: > > I'm wondering if I can mix 60 and 70ns SIMMs. Everyone says don't, > but they don't say why. I can understand not mixing SIMMs that will > be accessed simultaneously (like banks 1 and 2), but why shouldn't it > work when they are separated? My motherboard's manual indicates 70ns > or faster will work, so why wouldn't a mixture? > > So I add 2 70ns SIMMs to the motherboard that had 60s in banks 1 and > 2, and (not too surprisingly) strange things happened. > > I removed the 60s and ran with just the 70s, it seems to be working > great. > > Now I'm starting to think, what if I ran with 70s in banks 1 & 2 and > 60s in banks 3 & 4? Since the motherboard runs with 70s ok, but the > 60/70 mixture didn't work the first time, it must be able to determine > the access speed. Is the motherboard using bank 1 to determine what > speed it should access memory with? (This is a Tyan S1462 MB.) i have 2x4MB-70ns simms in bank0 and 2x4MB-60ns simms in bank1 on an ASUS SP3G motherboard. no problems at all. systems was initially set up for 70ns simms. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 14:36:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24141 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-146.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.146]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24085; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14819; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:27:22 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606231427.QAA14819@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "Andrew V. Stesin" , hardware@FreeBSD.org, gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:47:11 PDT." <199606210747.AAA01382@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:27:21 +0200 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" > Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips > >From jhs@freebsd.org > ># Only certainty is: AMD chips are Not always plug compatible. > > > I 100% agree -- not always compatible; not to mention the fact > > that early Enhanced Am486 chips were ummm... say, crap, > > and non-enhanced ones generally sucked, too -- compared to Intel. > > From "Andrew V. Stesin" > I *strongly* disagree. Not sure if you disagree with Andrew's bit or my bit, if mine: A pity you aren't in Munich, I think one of those chips is still in Munich, I still have those same 2 boards (I bough Gary J's off him a while ago), I never bet money, but I'd have bet you an indian meal +drinks, that I could reproduce the failure :-) > What vintage chips are you speaking of? Can't remember, Ask Rod Grimes or Gary Jennejohn. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 14:36:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24155 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-146.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.146]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24140; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14770; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:06:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606231406.QAA14770@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:23:35 +0300." <199606210723.KAA26369@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:06:06 +0200 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: "Andrew V. Stesin" > > Hi Julian, ...... > But just now wer'e speaking about (comparatively new) > AMD 5x133 chip. That's plain different story. _This_ > particular chip is really nice, do you agree? I've not looked at new Intel chips for a while, so I'm out of date, ( I tend to pay attention when I'm about to buy, as I find x86 chip naming conventions idiosyncratic & iritating to remember, + I have my NSC 32532 NetBSD box begging me play with a non 86 for a change :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 14:37:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24231 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-146.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.146]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24167; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA14747; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:59:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199606231359.PAA14747@vector.jhs.no_domain> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.jhs.no_domain: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Bill/Carolyn Pechter , freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:57:24 PDT." <199606210657.XAA01085@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:59:09 +0200 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" > Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips > Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:57:24 -0700 > Message-id: <199606210657.XAA01085@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> > > > >> >michaelv@HeadCandy.com (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com) > >> > AMD chips are awesome. They will work correctly with every > >> > motherboard that runs correctly with Intel chips. > > >Categorically Wrong ! > >2 Gigabyte GA-486US came with Intel 486 33MHz, ran error free for years, > >on multiple OSs, but did not work with 2 pre-tested AMD 486-66 > >(npx probe failed on the Gigabyte boards), > >then systems did (& still do) work again with Intel 486-66. > > How long ago was this? Gary J & I did the tests maybe 6 to 12 months ago, can't remember exactly when. > I know there were some very early chips that had some sort of FPU bug, > or something similar, that would show up under demanding situations. > But those should have been flushed out of the channel *long* ago. Rod knew AMD details, perhaps Gary J remembers too , all I really remember now is both AMDs failed on npx with both boards. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 18:09:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA08975 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphex.direct.ca (root@aphex.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08969 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from davinci.renaissoft.com ([199.60.103.1]) by aphex.direct.ca with ESMTP id <268727-24917>; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:02:25 -0700 Received: (from travis@localhost) by davinci.renaissoft.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04454 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:09:03 -0700 From: travis@renaissoft.com (Travis Campbell) Message-Id: <199606240109.SAA04454@davinci.renaissoft.com> Subject: Ethernet cards: 3c509B or NE2000 clone To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:09:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk G'day folks, I'm currently looking for an ethernet card for use on a 2.1-R system; a local computer consultant suggested that I get a 3com 3c509B Combo [about $100 from him] or an NE2000 clone [about $30]. Before I commit to buying one of the cards from him, I'd like to get recommendations from the FreeBSD community on which I should buy. How stable are the drivers for these two cards in 2.1R? THe particulars of this system, just in case you need to know: 486dx2 66Mhz on a VLB motherboard and 16 megs of RAM. Thanks, Travis -- | Travis Campbell |"Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is | | travis@renaissoft.com | steep, but atleast you only have to climb it once."| |-----------------------|--------------------------------------- Anonymous --| | FreeBSD Administrator | Visit the FreeBSD Project: http://www.freebsd.org | From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 18:45:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA11400 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11395; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA07440; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:44:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199606240144.SAA07440@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips To: jhs@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: michaelv@HeadCandy.com, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, hardware@FreeBSD.org, gj@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606231427.QAA14819@vector.jhs.no_domain> from "Julian H. Stacey" at "Jun 23, 96 04:27:21 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, Reference: > > From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" > > Subject: Re: Cyrix and AMD chips > > > >From jhs@freebsd.org > > ># Only certainty is: AMD chips are Not always plug compatible. > > > > > I 100% agree -- not always compatible; not to mention the fact > > > that early Enhanced Am486 chips were ummm... say, crap, > > > and non-enhanced ones generally sucked, too -- compared to Intel. > > > > From "Andrew V. Stesin" > > I *strongly* disagree. > > Not sure if you disagree with Andrew's bit or my bit, if mine: > A pity you aren't in Munich, I think one of those chips is still in Munich, > I still have those same 2 boards (I bough Gary J's off him a while ago), > I never bet money, but I'd have bet you an indian meal +drinks, > that I could reproduce the failure :-) > > > > What vintage chips are you speaking of? > > Can't remember, Ask Rod Grimes or Gary Jennejohn. Date codes from these chips are: D/C: E6 9431GPF D/C: E6 9429GPD So they look like mid 1994 vintage A80486DX2-66 chips. These chips where fully tested (ran FreeBSD make worlds) in motherboard before they where shipped, so it is/was a MB/chip compatibility problem, and not a chip flaw with respect to the FPU problem. I have only heard of one other case of this, so it is very rare and only seems to inflict boards that where designed before the Intel DX2/66 chip. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 18:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA11645 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11638 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13996; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199606240150.VAA13996@ns2.harborcom.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bradley Dunn" Organization: Harbor Communications To: travis@renaissoft.com (Travis Campbell) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:45:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ethernet cards: 3c509B or NE2000 clone Reply-to: dunn@harborcom.net CC: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Get an SMC EtherEZ. They work fine for me. My $0.02 On 23 Jun 96 at 18:09, Travis Campbell wrote: > I'm currently looking for an ethernet card for use on a 2.1-R > system; a local computer consultant suggested that I get a 3com > 3c509B Combo [about $100 from him] or an NE2000 clone [about $30]. > Before I commit to buying one of the cards from him, I'd like to get > recommendations from the FreeBSD community on which I should buy. Bradley Dunn From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 20:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18079 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18071 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA19872; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:45:03 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606240415.NAA19872@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Ethernet cards: 3c509B or NE2000 clone To: travis@renaissoft.com (Travis Campbell) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:45:02 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606240109.SAA04454@davinci.renaissoft.com> from "Travis Campbell" at Jun 23, 96 06:09:03 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Travis Campbell stands accused of saying: > I'm currently looking for an ethernet card for use on a 2.1-R > system; a local computer consultant suggested that I get a 3com > 3c509B Combo [about $100 from him] or an NE2000 clone [about $30]. > Before I commit to buying one of the cards from him, I'd like to get > recommendations from the FreeBSD community on which I should buy. The NE2000 is probably a better bet, unless you're planning on lots of heavy ethernet traffic and run a high CPU load on the system. (The NE2000 interface requires programmed I/O) > How stable are the drivers for these two cards in 2.1R? The NE2000 driver (ed) is legendary in its stability, while the 509 driver (ep) has caused some people quite a lot of trouble. > | Travis Campbell |"Some people claim that the UNIX learning -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 21:29:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22027 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22021 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18285; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606240429.VAA18285@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: travis@renaissoft.com (Travis Campbell) cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ethernet cards: 3c509B or NE2000 clone In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 23 Jun 96 18:09:03 -0700. <199606240109.SAA04454@davinci.renaissoft.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:29:06 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm currently looking for an ethernet card for use on a 2.1-R system; a local >computer consultant suggested that I get a 3com 3c509B Combo [about $100 from >him] or an NE2000 clone [about $30]. Before I commit to buying one of the >cards from him, I'd like to get recommendations from the FreeBSD community on >which I should buy. Neither is the definition of "power", but both will work. >How stable are the drivers for these two cards in 2.1R? Mostly stable. I've heard of problems having packets get dropped on busy networks. If you want the best you can get, I've heard most people recommend the SMC EtherPower boards, based on the DEC chipset are about as good as you'll do on a PC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 21:31:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22161 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.hk.linkage.net (gandalf.hk.linkage.net [202.76.4.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22128; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spring.hk.linkage.net (spring.hk.linkage.net [202.76.4.61]) by gandalf.hk.linkage.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA11258; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:28:37 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:28:37 +0800 Message-Id: <199606240428.MAA11258@gandalf.hk.linkage.net> X-Sender: lunglung@pop3.hk.linkage.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org From: Lung Subject: AMD PCI ethernet card. Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Support, I also met this problem when I install the FreeBSD 2.1, how can I solve it? Thanks for your attention Lung ------------------------------------------ >From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Apr 8 23:23:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA13951 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aic.am (AIC.AM [194.67.30.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13053 Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ran@localhost) by aic.am (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10656; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:12:10 +0500 (BSD) From: "Ran d'Adi" Message-Id: <199604090512.KAA10656@aic.am> Subject: AMD PCI ethernet card. To: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:12:10 +0500 (BSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I have a PCI Ethernet card : AM79C970KC - chip, (model PE-970) When trying to boot with the option "-v" the following messages appears: > pci0:13: AMD, device=0x2000, class network (ethernet) [no driver assigned] > map(10): io(ff80) Can I make it work ? If yes, what shall I do ? Thanks in advance hrant -------------------------------------- *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LinkAGE Online Limited ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* # # # lunglung@hk.linkage.net info: info@hk.linkage.net # # Lung Qi Zhen help: help@hk.linkage.net # # Tel: (852) 2331-8123 Fax: (852) 2795-1262 # # Dial-up No. 2953-0123, 3002-6000 # # FAQ: http://www.hk.linkage.net/faq/faq.html # # # *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 23 21:34:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22410 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.hk.linkage.net (gandalf.hk.linkage.net [202.76.4.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22390; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spring.hk.linkage.net (spring.hk.linkage.net [202.76.4.61]) by gandalf.hk.linkage.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA11403; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:32:32 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:32:32 +0800 Message-Id: <199606240432.MAA11403@gandalf.hk.linkage.net> X-Sender: lunglung@pop3.hk.linkage.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, www@freebsd.org From: Lung Subject: AMD PCI ethernet card. Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Support, I also met this problem when I install the FreeBSD 2.1, how can I solve it? Thanks for your attention Lung ------------------------------------------ >From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Apr 8 23:23:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA13951 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aic.am (AIC.AM [194.67.30.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13053 Mon, 8 Apr 1996 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ran@localhost) by aic.am (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10656; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:12:10 +0500 (BSD) From: "Ran d'Adi" Message-Id: <199604090512.KAA10656@aic.am> Subject: AMD PCI ethernet card. To: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:12:10 +0500 (BSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I have a PCI Ethernet card : AM79C970KC - chip, (model PE-970) When trying to boot with the option "-v" the following messages appears: > pci0:13: AMD, device=0x2000, class network (ethernet) [no driver assigned] > map(10): io(ff80) Can I make it work ? If yes, what shall I do ? Thanks in advance hrant -------------------------------------- *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LinkAGE Online Limited ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* # # # lunglung@hk.linkage.net info: info@hk.linkage.net # # Lung Qi Zhen help: help@hk.linkage.net # # Tel: (852) 2331-8123 Fax: (852) 2795-1262 # # Dial-up No. 2953-0123, 3002-6000 # # FAQ: http://www.hk.linkage.net/faq/faq.html # # # *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jun 24 00:05:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA29276 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA29269 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:05:35 -0700 (PDT) From: af@biomath.jussieu.fr Received: from mekong.biomath.jussieu.fr (mekong.biomath.jussieu.fr [134.157.72.87]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.7.5/jtpda-5.2) with SMTP id JAA24641 ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:04:54 +0200 (METDST) Received: from garfield.biomath.jussieu.fr (garfield) by mekong.biomath.jussieu.fr (5.67b/jn930126+af960507(mailhost)) at Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:04:27 +0100 Received: from (af@localhost) by garfield.biomath.jussieu.fr (8.7.5/jtpda-5.2) id JAA10709 ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:04:25 +0100 (GMT-1) Message-Id: <199606240804.JAA10709@garfield.biomath.jussieu.fr> Subject: Re: Will a SB 16 PnP work with FreeBSD? To: somsky@dirac.phys.washington.edu (William R. Somsky) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:04:25 +0100 (GMT-1) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199606231937.MAA26086@dirac.phys.washington.edu> from "William R. Somsky" at Jun 23, 96 12:37:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk William R. Somsky wrote / a ecrit: > > I'm in the process of buying an new computer system to run FreeBSD > for work/programming and Win95/DOS for games :-) Now, I know that > the SoundBlaster 16 is pretty much a standard for games and that > FreeBSD knows how to talk to it. However, what about the new PnP > varieties? Does the PnP interfere with it's use from FreeBSD? > These things use software to set things like IRQ's, right? Does > this need to be done each time the system is powered on? Or do > the settings get stored non-volitily (sp?), and would only have > to be set once? And what about the SB 16 Vibra/OEM versions? > Are they just as good? Better? To be avoided? Any help here > would be useful... > I have such a beast on my muti-OS PC and I did go through some trouble and headache with it, especially because it has a built-in IDE port for CDROMs. That port does grab one IRQ. Since I already have two IDE controllers on my motherboard, I was pretty much running out of IRQ levels for the rest of my hardware. I had to deal with the DOS-mode PNP utilities and W95 control panel to permanently disable the IDE port on the SB16 adapter. Neither of them are well documented and behave quite consistenly. I *really* would have preferred a good old card with jumpers. Plug and Pray still isn't my cup of tea. Still, it works nicely now with DOS6/Win3, Win95, and with FreeBSD. _Alain_ -- Alain FAUCONNET Ingenieur systeme - System Manager AP-HP/SIM Public Health 91 bld de l'Hopital 75013 PARIS FRANCE Medical Computing Research Labs Mail: af@biomath.jussieu.fr Tel: (+33) 1-40-77-96-19 Fax: (+33) 1-45-86-80-68 I've RTFMed. It says: "Refer to your system administrator" But... I *am* the system administrator :-] From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jun 24 00:40:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA01543 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dirac.phys.washington.edu (dirac.phys.washington.edu [128.95.93.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01534 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dirac.phys.washington.edu (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/UW-NDC Revision: 2.25 ) id AAA01776; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:40:24 -0700 From: "William R. Somsky" Message-Id: <199606240740.AAA01776@dirac.phys.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Will a SB 16 PnP work with FreeBSD? To: af@biomath.jussieu.fr Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606240804.JAA10709@garfield.biomath.jussieu.fr> from "af@biomath.jussieu.fr" at Jun 24, 96 09:04:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ah! Someone who's used one! > I have such a beast on my muti-OS PC and I did go through some trouble > and headache with it, especially because it has a built-in IDE port > for CDROMs. That port does grab one IRQ. Since I already have two IDE > controllers on my motherboard, I was pretty much running out of IRQ > levels for the rest of my hardware. > > I had to deal with the DOS-mode PNP utilities and W95 control panel to > permanently disable the IDE port on the SB16 adapter. Neither of them > are well documented and behave quite consistenly. I *really* would > have preferred a good old card with jumpers. Plug and Pray still isn't > my cup of tea. Still, it works nicely now with DOS6/Win3, Win95, and > with FreeBSD. Ok, you used the DOS utilities to set up the card. I can live with that, I guess, since I'm going to keep Win95/DOS around for games. Now, do these DOS utilities have to be run _each_ time the machine is powered up, or do you just make the changes _once_, and the card will remember it's settings forever, through reboots, power cycles, etc? Having to revert to DOS once would be OK for me (but not for others who don't want any M$ contaminations on their machine at all), but having to boot DOS first every time the machine is powered on would be a royal pain. So, which is it? Volatile or non-volatile? And thanks for the info! From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jun 24 01:56:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06521 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 01:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from up8.univ-paris8.fr (up8.univ-paris8.fr [193.54.155.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06504 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 01:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aqua.cs.univ-paris8.fr (aqua.cs.univ-paris8.fr [193.54.152.10]) by up8.univ-paris8.fr (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00360; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:51:01 +0200 Received: (from bob2@localhost) by aqua.cs.univ-paris8.fr (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10457; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:57:25 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:57:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199606240957.KAA10457@aqua.cs.univ-paris8.fr> From: Jean-Pierre Forcioli To: af@biomath.jussieu.fr CC: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Will a SB 16 PnP work with FreeBSD? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi to all, Did you have a quick look at ftp://freefall.freebsd.org:/incoming/ISA_PnP.May5.tar.gz >> William R. Somsky wrote / a ecrit: >> > >> > I'm in the process of buying an new computer system to run FreeBSD >> > for work/programming and Win95/DOS for games :-) Now, I know that >> > the SoundBlaster 16 is pretty much a standard for games and that >> > FreeBSD knows how to talk to it. However, what about the new PnP >> > varieties? Does the PnP interfere with it's use from FreeBSD? >> > These things use software to set things like IRQ's, right? Does >> > this need to be done each time the system is powered on? Or do >> > the settings get stored non-volitily (sp?), and would only have >> > to be set once? And what about the SB 16 Vibra/OEM versions? >> > Are they just as good? Better? To be avoided? Any help here >> > would be useful... >> > >> >> I have such a beast on my muti-OS PC and I did go through some trouble >> and headache with it, especially because it has a built-in IDE port >> for CDROMs. That port does grab one IRQ. Since I already have two IDE >> controllers on my motherboard, I was pretty much running out of IRQ >> levels for the rest of my hardware. >> >> I had to deal with the DOS-mode PNP utilities and W95 control panel to >> permanently disable the IDE port on the SB16 adapter. Neither of them >> are well documented and behave quite consistenly. I *really* would >> have preferred a good old card with jumpers. Plug and Pray still isn't >> my cup of tea. Still, it works nicely now with DOS6/Win3, Win95, and >> with FreeBSD. >> >> _Alain_ -- +--------------------------------+ Jean-Pierre Forcioli bob2@bocal.cs.univ-paris8.fr +--------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 02:24:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA07294 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07280 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA04854 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:45:07 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA10201 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:37:14 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA00549 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:37:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199606250737.JAA00549@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: AMD 133 in SOYO SY-30F2 mainboard? To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hardware Mailing list) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:37:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hardware, I've got a SOYO SY-30F2 mainboard, and I'd like to know if it supports the AMD 133 cpu. I dug up the booklet (I had to dig quite deep ;) and it does not directly support it. However, it does support the P24T and the P24T, both at 50 and 66 MHz. 1) Would it be possible to fit in an AMD 133? 2) Could somebody explain the terms Sync mode and Async mode in respect to the PCI bus clock? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 16:58:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA10932 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10921 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uYjOO-000wvLC; Tue, 25 Jun 96 18:27 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835746963; Tue, 25 Jun 96 17:49:56 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 17:49:56 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605258357.AA835746963@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Am now attempting to get FreeBSD onto a Gateway Solo laptop with an ATAPI CD-ROM. I'm working with a 2.2 snapshot disk, and am not getting very far! There's a mention of an ATAPI install disk in the pamphlet in the front, but no such image on the disk! When I installed by copying from the CD-ROM to a DOS partition, I still couldn't get the CD-ROM to work. Nor could I get the 3Com 3C562 Ethernet PCMCIA/Modem card, or even a standard modem card, to work so that I could bring in CD-ROM code from the Net. What's the best way to get up and running? This system will need CD-ROM and PCMCIA support at the very least. From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:16:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA11978 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA11936 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA01239; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606260012.SAA01239@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: "Brett Glass" Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? In-Reply-To: <9605258357.AA835746963@ccgate.infoworld.com> References: <9605258357.AA835746963@ccgate.infoworld.com> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Am now attempting to get FreeBSD onto a Gateway Solo laptop with an ATAPI > CD-ROM. I'm working with a 2.2 snapshot disk, and am not getting very > far! There's a mention of an ATAPI install disk in the pamphlet in the > front, but no such image on the disk! When I installed by copying from > the CD-ROM to a DOS partition, I still couldn't get the CD-ROM to > work. I know nothing about this. > Nor could I get the 3Com 3C562 Ethernet PCMCIA/Modem card, or even a > standard modem card, to work so that I could bring in CD-ROM code from the > Net. What's the best way to get up and running? This system will need > CD-ROM and PCMCIA support at the very least. The 3C562 won't be supported in FreeBSD anytime in the near future (unless the Nomad's know something I don't know). The current PC-CARD code doesn't support multiple interrupts/card, and I don't believe it supports sharing interrupts at all. Also note that the documentation and such for the PCCARD support is *very* weak right now, and probably won't get better in the next few weeks as the rivers are starting to come down and fly-fishing is sounding more fun than PC-CARD hacking. But, the code in -current should support your modem if you can get past the non-documentation issue. Read the man pages on pccardc/pccardd, and look at /etc/pccard.conf.sample and you *should* be able to get jump-started. Sorry about that, but keeping my sanity intrudes on getting this stuff working! :) :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:21:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA12760 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12750 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA01653; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:36:25 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606260006.JAA01653@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com (Brett Glass) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:36:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9605258357.AA835746963@ccgate.infoworld.com> from "Brett Glass" at Jun 25, 96 05:49:56 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett Glass stands accused of saying: > > Am now attempting to get FreeBSD onto a Gateway Solo laptop with an ATAPI > CD-ROM. I'm working with a 2.2 snapshot disk, and am not getting very > far! There's a mention of an ATAPI install disk in the pamphlet in the > front, but no such image on the disk! When I installed by copying from You'll notice the pamphlet is the 2.1R version with a sticky label over it. The 2.2 SNAP has the ATAPI code in the normal boot image. > the CD-ROM to a DOS partition, I still couldn't get the CD-ROM to work. Sounds like it's just a total loser of a unit 8( What brand is the CDrom, and how is it supposedly connected? The Sharp I'm using has two seperate IDE controllers, with the disk on the first and the CDrom on the second (which works A-OK FWIW). > Nor could I get the 3Com 3C562 Ethernet PCMCIA/Modem card, or even a > standard modem card, to work so that I could bring in CD-ROM code from the > Net. What's the best way to get up and running? This system will need > CD-ROM and PCMCIA support at the very least. You're going to have to figure out why the CD isn't behaving as expected, which will basically mean sitting down with the source and the ATAPI spec and trying to visualise how the buggers who designed it could have misinterpreted or shortcut the spec (or find the bug in the ATAPI code) such that yours isn't probed. As for the '562, I can't say; check the Nomad stuff and see if they reckon they have it working... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:34:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA14025 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14018 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uYjx6-000wusC; Tue, 25 Jun 96 19:03 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835749117; Tue, 25 Jun 96 18:30:22 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 18:30:22 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605258357.AA835749117@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The current PC-CARD code doesn't support multiple interrupts/card, and I > don't believe it supports sharing interrupts at all. The former is contrary to the PC Card spec, but the latter should be supported. Folks are running out of slots! > But, the code in -current should support your modem if you can get past > the non-documentation issue. Read the man pages on pccardc/pccardd, and > look at /etc/pccard.conf.sample and you *should* be able to get > jump-started. Will have to try this. Can I use the March snapshot, which I have on CD-ROM, or do I need to find a way to get -current onto the machine across the Net? --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:34:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA14069 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14062 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uYjx5-000wujC; Tue, 25 Jun 96 19:03 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835749115; Tue, 25 Jun 96 18:24:13 PST Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 18:24:13 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605258357.AA835749115@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Michael Smith Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You'll notice the pamphlet is the 2.1R version with a sticky label over > it. The 2.2 SNAP has the ATAPI code in the normal boot image. Hmmm. If that's so, it didn't recognize the drive. > Sounds like it's just a total loser of a unit 8( Actually, it runs rather well. I'm out to cure its biggest bug: the fact that it shipped with Windows '95 preinstalled. ;-) > What brand is the CDrom, and how is it supposedly connected? It's a Panasonic/Matsushita, and it's on the primary IDE interface together with the 1.2 GB hard disk. > You're going to have to figure out why the CD isn't behaving as expected, > which will basically mean sitting down with the source and the ATAPI spec > and trying to visualise how the buggers who designed it could have > misinterpreted or shortcut the spec (or find the bug in the ATAPI code) > such that yours isn't probed. Could it be that it won't probe for it on the same interface as the hard drive? > As for the '562, I can't say; check the Nomad stuff and see if they > reckon they have it working... Where would I find the "Nomad stuff?" (No quips about oases, please.... ;-) --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:37:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA14386 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuserve.on.ca (uuserve.on.ca [192.139.145.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA14375 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rjr@localhost) by sparks.empath.on.ca (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA27797; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 20:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert J. Rutter" Message-Id: <199606260036.UAA27797@sparks.empath.on.ca> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Will a SB 16 PnP work with FreeBSD? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had the misfortune to purchase a PnP SB16 and this is what I experienced: 1. It worked with Win95 after I fiddled with the AHA1542 I/O address in order to resolve conflicts. The PnP settings were only configurable through the SB16's buggy and almost useless PnP software. 2. Reconfiguring the SB16, confused Win95 so badly that I had to uninstall, reinstall and reconfigure the SB16 driver manually. 3. The SB16 PnP comes up with everything turned off. This means that the SB16 PnP will not work unless it is initialized by a PnP bios or an O/S that recognizes and initializes it. 4. The PnP SB16 will not be recognized by FreeBSD 2.1 unless it is initialized by a PnP bios or O/S after a cold start. 5. This was confirmed after being put on hold for 1/2 hour (at my expense) by Soundblastard support. 6. After wasting many hours and days of my time with PnP stupidities I took the card back to where I bought it and swapped it for an older SB16 with jumpers. 7. After changing one jumper and setting the IRQ with software I had the NON-PnP SB16 up and running with both Win95 and FreeBSD in less than an hour each. Moral of this story... Just say NO to PnP. |I'm in the process of buying an new computer system to run FreeBSD |for work/programming and Win95/DOS for games :-) Now, I know that |the SoundBlaster 16 is pretty much a standard for games and that |FreeBSD knows how to talk to it. However, what about the new PnP |varieties? Does the PnP interfere with it's use from FreeBSD? |These things use software to set things like IRQ's, right? Does |this need to be done each time the system is powered on? Or do |the settings get stored non-volitily (sp?), and would only have |to be set once? And what about the SB 16 Vibra/OEM versions? |Are they just as good? Better? To be avoided? Any help here |would be useful... From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 17:55:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA16473 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16456 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA01660; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606260052.SAA01660@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: "Brett Glass" Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? In-Reply-To: <9605258357.AA835749117@ccgate.infoworld.com> References: <9605258357.AA835749117@ccgate.infoworld.com> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The current PC-CARD code doesn't support multiple interrupts/card, and I > > don't believe it supports sharing interrupts at all. > > The former is contrary to the PC Card spec, but the latter should be > supported. Folks are running out of slots! I don't disagree, but there's only so much time in a day. > > But, the code in -current should support your modem if you can get past > > the non-documentation issue. Read the man pages on pccardc/pccardd, and > > look at /etc/pccard.conf.sample and you *should* be able to get > > jump-started. > > Will have to try this. Can I use the March snapshot, which I have on > CD-ROM, or do I need to find a way to get -current onto the machine > across the Net? The code is much better now than in March. As a matter of fact, I made some changes last week which you probably want. I'd get current over the net *after* you get another version installed. Nate From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jun 25 19:18:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA24287 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 19:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24282 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA02269; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:33:39 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606260203.LAA02269@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com (Brett Glass) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:33:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9605258357.AA835749117@ccgate.infoworld.com> from "Brett Glass" at Jun 25, 96 06:30:22 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett Glass stands accused of saying: > > > But, the code in -current should support your modem if you can get past > > the non-documentation issue. Read the man pages on pccardc/pccardd, and > > look at /etc/pccard.conf.sample and you *should* be able to get > > jump-started. > > Will have to try this. Can I use the March snapshot, which I have on > CD-ROM, or do I need to find a way to get -current onto the machine > across the Net? The current Nomad code is based on the 960501 snapshot, which is a huge improvement on the March code. I ran with the Nomad patches over the May SNAP for a while before going to -current; they worked OK, but for a PCCARD modem you _should_ be OK with the vanilla SNAP. > --Brett -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 26 06:55:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA09603 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 06:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA09598 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 06:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA13964; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606261355.HAA13964@boom.vars.com> To: "Brett Glass" cc: Michael Smith , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 1996 18:24:13 PST." <9605258357.AA835749115@ccgate.infoworld.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:55:01 -0600 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> What brand is the CDrom, and how is it supposedly connected? > >It's a Panasonic/Matsushita, and it's on the primary IDE interface >together with the 1.2 GB hard disk. FYI from my work on the BSDI ATAPI driver: I didn't have to do anything special to get the GW2000 drive to probe or operate with my driver. This is true of the 2X and the (currently shipping) 4X versions. -Eric From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 26 07:07:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA10096 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns3.mke.ab.com (ns3.mke.ab.com [130.151.86.191]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA10076; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from by ns3.mke.ab.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB26296; Wed, 26 Jun 96 09:07:10 CDT Received: from pegasus.ven.ra.rockwell.com (pegasus.ven.ra.rockwell.com [130.151.17.156]) by zeus.ven.ra.rockwell.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA14047; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:02:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:02:40 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960626100546.362f66d6@zeus.ven.ra.rockwell.com> Organization: Rockwell Automation de Venezuela X-Sender: eparis@zeus.ven.ra.rockwell.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: questions@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org From: "Eloy A. Paris" Subject: (SOLVED!) My Cyrix microprocessor/motherboard problems Cc: Gary Chrysler , "Lenzi, Sergio" , "M.R.Murphy" , "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , sos@freebsd.org, Terry Lambert , Didier Derny , Alex Nash , "Andrew V. Stesin" , "Brant M. Katkansky" , "David Alderman" , "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello everyone. Well, finally the problems with my Cyrix 486DX4/100 and my motherboard seem to be solverd. As you know, I was under severe attack of signals 10 (bus error) and 11 (segmentation fault) - almost all of them are, and this made my system too unstable to work as a dedicated server. In my last message I made a plan to find out the causes of my problem. These are the results: > 1) Replace the Cyrix 486DX4 with a genuine Intel DX4. OK, I got a genuine Intel 486DX4-100. I set up the jumpers of my motherboard accordingly and guess what? I got the segmentation fault when executing "man -a /usr/local/bin/*| col -b > /tmp/junk_test". This took me to the next step of my plan: >2) ... I am going to take my IDE harddrive with FreeBSD to another machine with an >Intel DX2/66 with a motherboard I know that works (it's a Digital computer, like one >that has been running Linux for about a year now with no problems - very good quality). I took the IDE hard drive with FreeBSD to a Digital DECpc LPx 466d2, with 16 Megs. of RAM and a 486DX2-66. Again, when trying "man -a ..." I got the segmentation fault. This really confussed me and made me suspect the problem was not hardware since I really trust the Digital mother board. The third step was not needed since step #2 failed: > 3) Get a different motherboard, one of good quality. I'll try to test the Cyrix DX4 on > it just to know if the problem is the microprocessor or the motherboard. I decided to made a final test to be sure the problem was not hardware: I repeated the same "man -a /usr/local/bin/* ..." test on my Dell Latitude XPi notebook with a genuine Intel Pentium @ 90 MHz. I had been running FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE on this machine for more than 6 months with no problems. Initially I did not get the segmentation fault but when I looked at the /usr/local/bin directory I saw the Elm files were not there, as compared to the FreeBSD in the installation I was problems with. I installed Elm in the notebook and I GOT THE SEGMENTATION FAULT. I upgraded to -stable and I still was getting the fault. Finally, I determined that the command "man -a elm" was causing the faults. Summarizing, I found two causes for the segmentation faults: 1) I was using to test my configuration a command ("man -a elm") that has some kind of bug (I guess). 2) I was configuring the jumpers of the mother board for a Cyrix DX4-100, as is my case. If I do this I get more segmentation faults than ever, beginning with the modload command that loads the screen saver module. To overcome this situation I configured the jumpers for a genuine Intel DX4-100. After I did this my system is stable!!! :-) I know this does not make sense (to have a Cyrix working in a mother board set up for an Intel) but it works. Well, I hope this helps people having the same problems I had. Thank you all people that helped me with suggestions and fresh ideas. See ya! E-loy.- -- Eloy A. Paris Global Technical Services Rockwell Automation de Venezuela Telephone: 58-2-9432311 Fax: 58-2-9430323 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 26 14:09:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12311 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from batch1.csd.uwm.edu (root@batch1.csd.uwm.edu [129.89.7.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12304 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (tiamat@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu [129.89.169.2]) by batch1.csd.uwm.edu (8.7.1/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA05271 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:08:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (tiamat@localhost) by alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (8.7.1/8.6.8) id QAA10009 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:08:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Elijah Isaiah Hall Message-Id: <199606262108.QAA10009@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Subject: Cyrix CPU To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:08:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am planning to buy a new computer soon, and am considering the Cyrix 6x86 - P166+ CPU. I plan to run it on a Tyan Tomcat I (triton II chipset) motherboard with 512k cache. Also, 64meg EDO 60ns RAM. I am concerned that it may not be compatible with FreeBSD and want to know before making any purchases... if anyone knows if it will work, please send me an email at tiamat@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu Also, could someone suggest a video card? I'm considering the Matrox Millenium 4meg WRAM card, but hear that it may not be compatible I was told to get a Diamond Stealth 64 4meg VRAM or #9 Motion... Any info is appreciated... Elijah Hall tiamat@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 26 18:06:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09450 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09445 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw3.att.com (gw4.att.com) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA21814 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:05:56 -0700 Received: from aloft.UUCP by ig4.att.att.com id AC23544; Wed, 26 Jun 96 20:53:20 EDT From: gtc@aloft.att.com (gary.corcoran) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, tiamat@csd.uwm.edu Received: from aloft (aloft.cnet.att.com) by aluxpo (4.1/DCS-aluxpo-M4.3) id AA20827; Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:01:42 EDT Received: from stargazer (stargazer.cnet.att.com) by aloft (4.1/DCS-aloft-M5.1) id AA22058; Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:01:44 EDT Received: by stargazer (4.1/DCS-aloft_client-S2.1) id AA01079; Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:01:42 EDT Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:01:42 EDT Original-From: aluxpo!aloft!gtc (gary.corcoran) Message-Id: <9606270101.AA01079@stargazer> Original-To: freebsd.org!freebsd-hardware, csd.uwm.edu!tiamat Subject: Re: Cyrix CPU Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Also, could someone suggest a video card? >I'm considering the Matrox Millenium 4meg WRAM card, but >hear that it may not be compatible > >I was told to get a Diamond Stealth 64 4meg VRAM or #9 Motion... I _believe_ that to run X on the Matrox card you have to _buy_ the XAccel X server. On the other hand, the free XFree86 S3 server works fine on the Diamond Stealth 64 3400XL (4 Meg version, formerly called the Stealth 64 Video VRAM 4Meg). Gary From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jun 26 20:31:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18904 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18878 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA01944; Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606270331.UAA01944@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: gtc@aloft.att.com.headcandy.com (gary.corcoran) cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, tiamat@csd.uwm.edu Subject: Re: Cyrix CPU In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:01:42 -0400. <9606270101.AA01079@stargazer> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:31:41 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Also, could someone suggest a video card? >>I'm considering the Matrox Millenium 4meg WRAM card, but >>hear that it may not be compatible >>I was told to get a Diamond Stealth 64 4meg VRAM or #9 Motion... >I _believe_ that to run X on the Matrox card you have to _buy_ the >XAccel X server. I also believe I remember hearing that this is the case. >On the other hand, the free XFree86 S3 server works fine on the >Diamond Stealth 64 3400XL (4 Meg version, formerly called the >Stealth 64 Video VRAM 4Meg). I have one of these in a P100 running Windows NT, and it's a great card. Very fast. Can't tell you how it runs X because I've never run *BSD on that machine. I know it is supposed to be supported by XFree86, though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 00:59:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08450 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08438 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA11528; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:14:48 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606270744.RAA11528@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? To: ewv@boom.bsdi.com (Eric Varsanyi) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:14:48 +0930 (CST) Cc: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606261355.HAA13964@boom.vars.com> from "Eric Varsanyi" at Jun 26, 96 07:55:01 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eric Varsanyi stands accused of saying: > > >> What brand is the CDrom, and how is it supposedly connected? > > > >It's a Panasonic/Matsushita, and it's on the primary IDE interface > >together with the 1.2 GB hard disk. > > FYI from my work on the BSDI ATAPI driver: I didn't have to do anything > special to get the GW2000 drive to probe or operate with my driver. This > is true of the 2X and the (currently shipping) 4X versions. This is the GW2000 desktop drive (I believe a CR563 or similar), or the one in their laptop? > -Eric -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 09:22:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08471 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08466 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uZLG5-000wzNC; Thu, 27 Jun 96 10:53 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835892394; Thu, 27 Jun 96 10:17:07 PST Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 10:17:07 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605278358.AA835892394@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Michael Smith , ewv@boom.bsdi.com Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is the GW2000 desktop drive (I believe a CR563 or similar), or the > one in their laptop? I think Eric's is a desktop. I'm referring to the one in their Solo laptops. --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 09:33:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08984 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boom.vars.com (boom.BSDI.COM [205.230.226.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08976 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boom.vars.com (localhost.vars.com [127.0.0.1]) by boom.vars.com (8.7.3/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA22062; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199606271633.KAA22062@boom.vars.com> To: "Brett Glass" cc: Michael Smith , ewv@boom.bsdi.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:17:07 PST." <9605278358.AA835892394@ccgate.infoworld.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:32:56 -0600 From: Eric Varsanyi Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> This is the GW2000 desktop drive (I believe a CR563 or similar), or the >> one in their laptop? > >I think Eric's is a desktop. I'm referring to the one in their Solo >laptops. > >--Brett No, as I mentioned in private email to Michael I have a GW2K Solo with the 2X drive and it works fine. This is the drive that slides in under the keyboard (this is the one you swap with the removeable floppy drive). I've also tried the newer (by a couple of months) 4X drive with no problems. Mine claims its a Matsushita UJDCD2720 (sticker on the drive itself). >From an ATAPI point of view its well behaved, I didn't have to add any special case code to deal with it. -Eric From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 09:37:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09306 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09298 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA12797; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:54:02 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606271624.BAA12797@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gateway Solo with ATAPI CD-ROM: How to install? To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com (Brett Glass) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:54:01 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9605278358.AA835892394@ccgate.infoworld.com> from "Brett Glass" at Jun 27, 96 10:17:07 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett Glass stands accused of saying: > > > This is the GW2000 desktop drive (I believe a CR563 or similar), or the > > one in their laptop? > > I think Eric's is a desktop. I'm referring to the one in their Solo > laptops. No, Eric has a Solo too; the CDrom in it is very similar to the one that works in my Sharp laptop. As far as I can guess then, the problem is most likely to be that the Solo has the CDrom as the slave on the first controller, and the ATAPI probe isn't good enough to find it. I'm not sufficiently clued (or in posession of a unit to test with even if I was) to help much more here. 8( > --Brett -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 11:47:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA16471 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLaCKSMITH.com (BLaCKSMITH.com [205.147.162.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16465 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparcplug.blacksmith.com by BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA25627; Thu, 27 Jun 96 14:47:29 -0400 Message-Id: <9606271847.AA25627@BLaCKSMITH.com> Received: from thompson by sparcplug.BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA02886; Thu, 27 Jun 96 14:47:28 -0400 From: Kevin Swanson Received: by thompson.BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0X) id AA03268; Thu, 27 Jun 96 14:47:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 14:47:27 -0400 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am looking into building a dialup server running freebsd 2.1, that will allow users ppp access into an ethernet network of unix machines. The server has the following configuration: L-486 Series System Board 33 MHz Intel 486DX2 CPU 15 MB RAM 2 full size EISA slots, 1 half-size ISA Onboard IDE controller Internal IDE Drive - Western Digital AC31600 (1549.4 MB) Intel EtherExpress 16 ISA Card The modems I plan to use are US Robotics v.34 modems with v.32 bis. I want to add an ISA multiport serial card to this server and hang up to 8 serial devices from it. Can you buy a multiport card that has different speed limits on each port? For example, I'd like to have maybe four high-speed connections up to 115.2KBps for user connections, two ports that go to 57.6 KBps max and 2 ports that are only 9600 baud. Basically, I'm going to be hanging some serial devices from this that I don't need a fast connection for. If I want some ports to go up to 115.2, do they all have to? I'm looking to save some money if possible. I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work with freebsd 2.1? Any suggestions on what board to go with would be appreciated. I'm not just interested in Digi. I'm looking for basically any board that can go high-speed and work with freebsd 2.1. Kevin Swanson Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 12:27:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA18594 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from feyuri.microsoft.com (feyuri.microsoft.com [131.107.243.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18589 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by feyuri.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.980.0) id <01BB6423.FA5BE520@feyuri.microsoft.com>; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:27:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange)" To: "'Kevin Swanson'" Cc: "'freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:27:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.980.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk perhaps you should send this to the freebsd-isp list as well. i don't know if a 486/33 will have the horsepower to run 8 ports simultaneously. if 115kbps isn't important on all of them it may be okay. 15mb will probably be fine but it seems a little light. cyclades makes boards that run great under freebsd. the newer ones may require a freebsd-stable system rather than 2.1.0-release. i purchased one a year ago that works fine. i purchased another two months ago that doesn't work at all (crashes the system when it gets a call). i haven't had a chance to look into the problem with the newer card other than to run cyclade's cyctest.exe dos program that tests the card (and it tested ok). i've heard that the cyclades driver has been shaped up quite a bit in -stable. scotto p.s. i've not had good luck with intel etherexpress cards and freebsd (or linux or netbsd for that matter). >---------- >From: Kevin Swanson[SMTP:Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com] >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 1996 11:47 AM >To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org >Subject: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server > >I am looking into building a dialup server running freebsd 2.1, that will >allow users ppp access into an ethernet network of unix machines. > >The server has the following configuration: > > L-486 Series System Board > 33 MHz Intel 486DX2 CPU > 15 MB RAM > 2 full size EISA slots, 1 half-size ISA > Onboard IDE controller > Internal IDE Drive - Western Digital AC31600 (1549.4 MB) > Intel EtherExpress 16 ISA Card > >The modems I plan to use are US Robotics v.34 modems with v.32 bis. > >I want to add an ISA multiport serial card to this server and hang up to 8 >serial devices from it. Can you buy a multiport card that has different speed >limits on each port? For example, I'd like to have maybe four high-speed >connections up to 115.2KBps for user connections, two ports that go to 57.6 >KBps max and 2 ports that are only 9600 baud. > >Basically, I'm going to be hanging some serial devices from this that I don't >need a fast connection for. If I want some ports to go up to 115.2, do they >all have to? I'm looking to save some money if possible. > >I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this type of >thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, PC/Xem) that have a >front-end processor and don't require an interrupt on the computer? Has >anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work with freebsd 2.1? > >Any suggestions on what board to go with would be appreciated. I'm not just >interested in Digi. I'm looking for basically any board that can go >high-speed and work with freebsd 2.1. > >Kevin Swanson > >Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com > > > From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 16:56:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA08477 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08429 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA13951; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:13:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606272343.JAA13951@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com (Kevin Swanson) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:13:24 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9606271847.AA25627@BLaCKSMITH.com> from "Kevin Swanson" at Jun 27, 96 02:47:27 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kevin Swanson stands accused of saying: > > I am looking into building a dialup server running freebsd 2.1, that > will allow users ppp access into an ethernet network of unix machines. > > The server has the following configuration: > > L-486 Series System Board > 33 MHz Intel 486DX2 CPU ie. a DX2/66, correct? > 15 MB RAM > 2 full size EISA slots, 1 half-size ISA > Onboard IDE controller > Internal IDE Drive - Western Digital AC31600 (1549.4 MB) > Intel EtherExpress 16 ISA Card Hmm, not 100% sure about the EtherExpress; if it gives you trouble replace it with an SMC EtherEz. > I want to add an ISA multiport serial card to this server and hang > up to 8 serial devices from it. Can you buy a multiport card that has > different speed limits on each port? For example, I'd like to have > maybe four high-speed connections up to 115.2KBps for user > connections, two ports that go to 57.6 KBps max and 2 ports that are > only 9600 baud. Don't bother; just get an 8-port "dumb" serial card with 16550's on it. You shouldn't have to pay more than a couple hundred dollars for it, and your system will handle a fair number of these ports flat out. > Basically, I'm going to be hanging some serial devices from this > that I don't need a fast connection for. If I want some ports to go up > to 115.2, do they all have to? I'm looking to save some money if > possible. Because the machine's not going to be doing much else, you've got plenty of CPU left over to handle dumb ports. There's nothing any slower and cheaper that would offer acceptable functionality. > I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this >type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, >PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt >on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work >with freebsd 2.1? Of course, but any "intelligent" serial board will conflict with your "save some money" requirement; the cost per port is over double that of a "dumb" card, and in your case it's not warranted. > Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jun 27 21:35:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05598 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05581 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uZWhb-000wvVC; Thu, 27 Jun 96 23:06 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835936358; Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:18:52 PST Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:18:52 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605278359.AA835936358@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Kevin Swanson , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm using an STB 4COM. Dirt cheap, but works great. I've throttled down the DTE speed to 38400 baud and am running 6 lines with no overruns on a DX4/100. The load is so small that it would probably work on a slower processor as well. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 03:10:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA23697 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 03:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA23597 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 03:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09741; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:27:20 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id NAA04222; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:27:19 +0300 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199606281027.NAA04222@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:27:19 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606272343.JAA13951@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jun 28, 96 09:13:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, # > I want to add an ISA multiport serial card to this server and hang # > up to 8 serial devices from it. Can you buy a multiport card that has # > different speed limits on each port? For example, I'd like to have # > maybe four high-speed connections up to 115.2KBps for user # > connections, two ports that go to 57.6 KBps max and 2 ports that are # > only 9600 baud. # # Don't bother; just get an 8-port "dumb" serial card with 16550's on it. # You shouldn't have to pay more than a couple hundred dollars for it, # and your system will handle a fair number of these ports flat out. Seconded 100%. 16 ports are no problem. Speed limitations? Read man stty :) # > Basically, I'm going to be hanging some serial devices from this # > that I don't need a fast connection for. If I want some ports to go up # > to 115.2, do they all have to? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No. # > I'm looking to save some money if possible. 8x16550 IS The Cheapest Working Solution. # > I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this # >type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, # >PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt # >on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work # >with freebsd 2.1? # # Of course, but any "intelligent" serial board will conflict with your # "save some money" requirement; the cost per port is over double that # of a "dumb" card, and in your case it's not warranted. Not to mention the fact -- at least some models of Digiboard have a speed limit of 57600; and despite of their intelligence, I can't tell for sure that 16port Digi really saves you so much CPU compared to 16x16550. (Don't know is it a driver problem; but I have seen a situation recently, when people (using BSDi) are going back to FIFOed 16550s from Digiboard, because of... CPU limitations). # # > Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com # # -- # ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ # ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ # ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ # ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ # ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ # -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 08:34:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA08482 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seine.cs.UMD.EDU (seine.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA08477 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by seine.cs.UMD.EDU (8.7.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26284; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT) From: rohit@cs.UMD.EDU (Rohit Dube) Message-Id: <199606281534.LAA26284@seine.cs.UMD.EDU> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: 100BaseT ethernet HUB Cc: rohit@cs.UMD.EDU Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am looking for a 100BaseT HUB (repeater) to go with some FreeBSD machines and the SMC 10/100MB DEC 21140 ethernet cards on them. I was wondering if anybody had experience with 8 or 12 Port hubs and was satisfied with them. I have a quote for an ASANTE 12 port stackable for ~$1200. The usual pirce of this gizmo and the BAY NETWORK equivalent being ~$1600. I am tempted to go with the ASANTE but am unsure of the quality. Anybody use these? Thanks in advance. --rohit. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 09:32:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA11508 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11502 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA14320; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:32:32 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199606281632.JAA14320@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 100BaseT ethernet HUB To: rohit@cs.UMD.EDU (Rohit Dube) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, rohit@cs.UMD.EDU In-Reply-To: <199606281534.LAA26284@seine.cs.UMD.EDU> from Rohit Dube at "Jun 28, 96 11:34:20 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > I am looking for a 100BaseT HUB (repeater) to go with some FreeBSD > machines and the SMC 10/100MB DEC 21140 ethernet cards on them. > > I was wondering if anybody had experience with 8 or 12 Port hubs > and was satisfied with them. > > I have a quote for an ASANTE 12 port stackable for ~$1200. The > usual pirce of this gizmo and the BAY NETWORK equivalent being > ~$1600. I am tempted to go with the ASANTE but am unsure of the > quality. Anybody use these? Using one here, and I have sold a few of them, they work just fine. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 09:47:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA12932 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mole.mole.org (marmot.mole.org [204.216.57.191]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12927 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mole.mole.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA20550; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:19:20 GMT Received: from meerkat.mole.org(206.197.192.110) by mole.mole.org via smap (V1.3) id sma020546; Fri Jun 28 16:19:10 1996 Received: (from mrm@localhost) by meerkat.mole.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA24043; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:19:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:19:10 -0700 From: "M.R.Murphy" Message-Id: <199606281619.JAA24043@meerkat.mole.org> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Not to mention the fact -- at least some models of > Digiboard have a speed limit of 57600; and despite > of their intelligence, I can't tell for sure that 16port Digi > really saves you so much CPU compared to 16x16550. > (Don't know is it a driver problem; but I have seen > a situation recently, when people (using BSDi) are > going back to FIFOed 16550s from Digiboard, because > of... CPU limitations). > A thing to watch out for is that the multi-16550 boards (I'm familiar with Digiboard 8-port and HUB-6 with 16550) generate a LOT of heat. Good cooling is required. Especially with more than one board in a system. -- Mike Murphy mrm@Mole.ORG +1 619 598 5874 Better is the enemy of Good From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 10:46:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA18073 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18058 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA04008; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:41:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199606281741.NAA04008@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:27:19 +0300. <199606281027.NAA04222@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:41:22 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. I don't know if they can handle that. I've heard of a 16650 to come out that can do better. Its amazing that one of the slowest protocols on the computer is the one that gives most people the most trouble. The UARTs seem to be one step behind as do the motherboard/software companies. I'm of course talking about RS/232 system, which has been a problem with some software at anything over 300 baud at times (even with 9600 baud modems operating at 300 baud. Sun requires a special board at least on my sparc 2. So there's no problem with a 10mbit/sec ethernet, but 1200baud to 1/20 of the original ethernet speed is even on workstations. On the positive side, I'm told that CDA is going to port to BSDI next for the Sportster 128 Kbaud (512kbaud with compression) and should have a beta copy in late July. THey've already done it for Unixware and SCO and possibly Solaris (I think they said they were finishing it up). Anyway, this is a cheap internal card which you can read all about on http://www.usr.com/. I've seen it for $319, CDA said that Bell Atlantic and possibly other companies would sell it for $199 if you bought it at the same time as ISDN service. It does lots of nice things like automatic switching of data from 1 to 2 or vice versa BRI 64 Kbyte data chanels on the fly, Three types of compression (Stac, Ascend and Microsoft). The modem driver costs $95 for Unix. Since its right on the ISA bus, there are no problems with overruns I'm told. Jacob PS. If I were basing a business on modems, I'd make absolutely certain that they all worked at 512Kbaud, at the same time. If you've ever experienced overruns, its not pleasant. Usually the machine kernel panics and crashes the machine, fairly often, or in clusters. Not much fun, especially when you have users that have to deal with it, and are justifyably less than pleased at placing their trust in you. ----- In message <199606281027.NAA04222@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>you write: >Hello, > ># > I want to add an ISA multiport serial card to this server and hang ># > up to 8 serial devices from it. Can you buy a multiport card that has ># > different speed limits on each port? For example, I'd like to have ># > maybe four high-speed connections up to 115.2KBps for user ># > connections, two ports that go to 57.6 KBps max and 2 ports that are ># > only 9600 baud. ># ># Don't bother; just get an 8-port "dumb" serial card with 16550's on it. ># You shouldn't have to pay more than a couple hundred dollars for it, ># and your system will handle a fair number of these ports flat out. > > Seconded 100%. 16 ports are no problem. Speed limitations? > Read man stty :) > ># > Basically, I'm going to be hanging some serial devices from this ># > that I don't need a fast connection for. If I want some ports to go up ># > to 115.2, do they all have to? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No. > ># > I'm looking to save some money if possible. > > 8x16550 IS The Cheapest Working Solution. > ># > I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this ># >type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, ># >PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt ># >on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work ># >with freebsd 2.1? ># ># Of course, but any "intelligent" serial board will conflict with your ># "save some money" requirement; the cost per port is over double that ># of a "dumb" card, and in your case it's not warranted. > > Not to mention the fact -- at least some models of > Digiboard have a speed limit of 57600; and despite > of their intelligence, I can't tell for sure that 16port Digi > really saves you so much CPU compared to 16x16550. > (Don't know is it a driver problem; but I have seen > a situation recently, when people (using BSDi) are > going back to FIFOed 16550s from Digiboard, because > of... CPU limitations). > ># ># > Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com ># ># -- ># ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ># ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ># ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ># ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ># ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ ># > > >-- > > With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. > > +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 > > "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." > Frank's Management Rule #1. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jacob M. Parnas | | IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. | | Internet: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 11:00:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA18500 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLaCKSMITH.com (BLaCKSMITH.com [205.147.162.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18495 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparcplug.blacksmith.com by BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA05807; Fri, 28 Jun 96 14:00:14 -0400 Message-Id: <9606281800.AA05807@BLaCKSMITH.com> Received: from thompson by sparcplug.BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA13194; Fri, 28 Jun 96 14:00:13 -0400 Received: by thompson.BLaCKSMITH.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0X) id AA03984; Fri, 28 Jun 96 14:00:12 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Kevin Swanson Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 14:00:10 -0400 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server References: <199606272343.JAA13951@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of the responses I've been getting. Someone mentioned using a Cyclades-8 port serial card at 115.2 KBps. Is that with 16550's? Thanks for all of the responses. Kevin Swanson Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 11:38:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA20388 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20381 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.25]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22091; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01543; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:38:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: Kevin Swanson cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <9606281800.AA05807@BLaCKSMITH.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Kevin Swanson wrote: > I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up > to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of > the responses I've been getting. I've been using it at 38.4KBps, but I haven't been exercising all the ports of my 8 port card. I still think that's a low value for the 16550s, I think the limiting value would be the ISA bus and the efficiency of the sio driver in reading the UARTS, not the hardware. > > Someone mentioned using a Cyclades-8 port serial card at 115.2 KBps. Is that > with 16550's? > > Thanks for all of the responses. > > Kevin Swanson > > Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 11:46:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA20825 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.cas.unt.edu (www.cas.unt.edu [129.120.3.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20818 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cofer@localhost) by www.cas.unt.edu (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA27580; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:46:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:46:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Christopher D. Cofer" To: Michael Smith cc: Kevin Swanson , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <199606272343.JAA13951@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Kevin Swanson stands accused of saying: > > I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this > >type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr, > >PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt > >on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work > >with freebsd 2.1? > > Of course, but any "intelligent" serial board will conflict with your > "save some money" requirement; the cost per port is over double that > of a "dumb" card, and in your case it's not warranted. The question remains... Does FreeBSD work with "intelligent" digboard cards. I have a machine that I would like to route between ppp and local net. I choose Linux to do so, since at the time all I could find about BSD and digiboard PC/Xe was that it was not possible. If this has changed, would someone please point me to the correct information about setting this up. I am getting tired of messing with Linux. ********************************************************** * Christopher Don Cofer College of Arts * * cofer@unt.edu and Science * * Computer Support Services * ********************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 12:36:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA23972 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23962 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA04484; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:33:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199606281933.PAA04484@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: Kevin Swanson , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:38:23 EDT. Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:33:24 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Kevin Swanson wrote: > >> I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up >> to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of >> the responses I've been getting. These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8 MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast. Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 12:45:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA24447 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA24442 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.25]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15007; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA01894; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:45:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: "Jacob M. Parnas" cc: Kevin Swanson , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <199606281933.PAA04484@jparnas.cybercom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote: > > In message you write: > >On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Kevin Swanson wrote: > > > >> I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up > >> to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of > >> the responses I've been getting. > > These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At > least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8 > MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast. You notice he referred to the "dumb" 8 port digiboards? They were much cheaper than the intelligent ones, and serve many applications perfectly well, but since they have no onboard intelligence or buffering (beyond that allowed by the 16550 fifos) they won't make it to 115200, at least not on all 8 ports at the same time. > > Jacob > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 12:57:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA25194 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25186 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA04592; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:56:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199606281956.PAA04592@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: Kevin Swanson , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:45:25 EDT. Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:56:19 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote: > >> >> In message you write: >> >On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Kevin Swanson wrote: >> > >> >> I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up >> >> to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of >> >> the responses I've been getting. >> >> These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At >> least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8 >> MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast. > >You notice he referred to the "dumb" 8 port digiboards? They were much >cheaper than the intelligent ones, and serve many applications perfectly >well, but since they have no onboard intelligence or buffering (beyond >that allowed by the 16550 fifos) they won't make it to 115200, at least >not on all 8 ports at the same time. I think "dumb" ones should be able to go at least 115200 per port (for even $120-$130 new modems. Smart ones should support at least 512kbaud/port.) Some like ones based on the TI 17550 chip (I think) go up to > 900 Kbaud/sec. Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 13:18:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26413 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas.com ([206.29.170.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26407 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from billthecat.atlas.com. (billthecat.atlas.com [97.12.13.38]) by atlas.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA09037 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by billthecat.atlas.com. (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02330; Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:19:19 PDT From: brantk@gatekeeper.atlas.com (Brant Katkansky) Message-Id: <9606282019.AA02330@billthecat.atlas.com.> Subject: Devices compatible with tw(4) (X-10) To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm interested in doing some experimentation with X-10 support. So far from what I've been able to determine from reading the man pages and available product literature, I'll need a TW-523 power line interface, as well as a device to interface the TW-523 to a serial port. The second device is the unknown - can anyone who's actually used the X-10 support make any recommendations? -- Brant Katkansky (brantk@atlas.com) Systems Test Engineer, ADC From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 14:03:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA29949 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29944 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uZm8x-000wsuC; Fri, 28 Jun 96 15:36 PDT Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com id AA835995678; Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:54:22 PST Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:54:22 PST From: "Brett Glass" Message-Id: <9605288359.AA835995678@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: rohit@cs.UMD.EDU (Rohit Dube), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Cc: rohit@cs.UMD.EDU Subject: 100BaseT ethernet HUB Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Asante' is a fine brand. No reason not to go with them. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 14:36:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01490 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01483 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03283; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:36:37 GMT Message-Id: <199606282136.VAA03283@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA009437834; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:37:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:37:14 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: brantk@gatekeeper.atlas.com Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9606282019.AA02330@billthecat.atlas.com.> (brantk@gatekeeper.atlas.com) Subject: Re: Devices compatible with tw(4) (X-10) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Brant" == Brant Katkansky writes: Brant> I'm interested in doing some experimentation with X-10 Brant> support. So far from what I've been able to determine from Brant> reading the man pages and available product literature, Brant> I'll need a TW-523 power line interface, as well as a Brant> device to interface the TW-523 to a serial port. That's just one way to go. If you just want to be able to send X10 commands, the CP-290 by X10, Inc. may be just right for you. It connects to a computer through a serial port and has a built-in timer to send scheduled X10 commands. If you're using FreeBSD, you are probably keeping your computer up 24 hours a day anyway. So you probably don't want to bother with the CP-290. Myself, I'm using a tw523. Brant> The second device is the unknown - can anyone who's Brant> actually used the X-10 support make any recommendations? FreeBSD includes a tw523 device driver. You manufacturer a special cable. One end plugs into the tw523, the other into your computer's parallel port. The device driver provides a /dev/tw0 through which you can send and receive X10 commands. No special device required. The tw device driver does some rapid polling of the parallel port---I noticed half-second or so freeze-ups when trying to read from the tw523, so although an inexpensive option, it's not too attractive. And I have to warn you: parallel ports seem pretty finicky. After trying the above with mine, it broke the parallel port *and* the tw523. Yours may work ... might not ... and might brak things. So, I'm using a (new) tw523 hooked up to a Merrick Products LynX-10. This little box has to jacks: one plugs into the tw523, the other plugs into a serial port. The LynX-10 takes care of all the timing considerations of detecting/sending X10 signals. It even does collision detection with auto-resend and buffering. I highly recommend it. I got mine in kit form from http://www.techmall.com/smarthome/1150.html That's Home Automation Systems. They sell a preassembled version of the kit, if you're not into soldering. They also have a tw523-to-serial cable with all the circuitry in-the-hood. I haven't tried it, though. I also recommend the link: http://www.freebsd.org/~faulkner/multimedia/HomeAuto/HomeAuto.html -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 15:54:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05749 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from charlotte.spiders.com (charlotte.spiders.com [199.224.7.188]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05744 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gwh@localhost) by charlotte.spiders.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA05541; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:57:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199606282257.SAA05541@charlotte.spiders.com> From: gwh@spiders.com (Gene W Homicki) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:57:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: Sean Kelly's message as of Jun 28, 15:37 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Sean Kelly , brantk@gatekeeper.atlas.com Subject: Re: Devices compatible with tw(4) (X-10) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +--- | Brant> I'm interested in doing some experimentation with X-10 | | That's just one way to go. +--- I was just looking for remote power cycling devices (via phone, or whatever else) to manage a machine room while there are no staff around....and this message popped up. Has anyone used the X-10 stuff for this type of application? Is there a better way to go? My idea is to have one phone based power cycle device on the machine that has a dialin and the X-10 based controller. If that machine goes down, you can remotely reboot it. Onc its back up, you can power cycle any other locked up machines... just a thought. If someone has recommendations on a better way to do this, that is cost effective, I'd love to hear about it. --Gene -- Gene W. Homicki gwh@spiders.com Objective Consulting, Inc. http://www.spiders.com/ Internet Presence Design voice: +1 914.353.3511 From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 17:06:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA18168 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18154 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:05:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Henry Spencer Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: "Jacob M. Parnas" cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606281741.NAA04008@jparnas.cybercom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when > ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. > I don't know if they can handle that... Why bother trying to make them handle it? Ethernet is a much nicer way to connect to high-speed networks (or even not-so-high-speed ones like ISDN), given that there has to be an interface gadget of some kind between you and the network anyway. UARTs are for low speeds. Henry Spencer henry@zoo.toronto.edu From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 17:21:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA18957 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.com (ip6-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18947 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA01026; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:58:58 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199606282358.TAA01026@hda.com> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606281956.PAA04592@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 28, 96 03:56:19 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think "dumb" ones should be able to go at least 115200 per port (for even > $120-$130 new modems. Smart ones should support at least 512kbaud/port.) > Some like ones based on the TI 17550 chip (I think) go up to > 900 Kbaud/sec. Probably, but I don't want to comment on things I don't know about. However: Using a Boca Board with 8 ports (no modem control, no smarts, 16550s) we have an application that does 115200 at 70% theoretical peak bandwidth utilization on four ports at 115200 with no dropped input, for four hours per data collection cycle. This is continuous. The data is uploaded from microcontrollers that are pumping it out at that rate with no pauses. The system is an Asus 486DX4-100 from Rod. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 21:24:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03087 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03054 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA20298; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:40:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290410.NAA20298@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: mrm@marmot.Mole.ORG (M.R.Murphy) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:40:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, hardware@FreeBSD.org, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com In-Reply-To: <199606281619.JAA24043@meerkat.mole.org> from "M.R.Murphy" at Jun 28, 96 09:19:10 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk M.R.Murphy stands accused of saying: > > A thing to watch out for is that the multi-16550 boards (I'm familiar > with Digiboard 8-port and HUB-6 with 16550) generate a LOT of heat. Good > cooling is required. Especially with more than one board in a system. This is highly dependant on the type of UART on the board. Older NMOS parts (16550AFN etc.) will generate quite a lot of heat, especially when they're busy. Newer parts (16C550, PC16550D) don't get anywhere near so hot. > Mike Murphy mrm@Mole.ORG +1 619 598 5874 -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 22:05:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05213 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (lynx.its.unimelb.EDU.AU [128.250.20.151]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05208 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04316; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:05:02 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:05:01 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Kevin Swanson cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <9606281800.AA05807@BLaCKSMITH.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Kevin Swanson wrote: > I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up > to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of > the responses I've been getting. > > Someone mentioned using a Cyclades-8 port serial card at 115.2 KBps. Is that > with 16550's? I mentioned the Cyclades. It is an intelligent card which does not use multiple 16550s. It runs each port at up to 115200 and uses a single irq for all 8 (or 16 on a 16 port board). I've found that if the machine crashes, the 16550 AST clones I'm also using are not guaranteed to come up with a warm boot - need power cycle to flush buffers or something. With the cyclades I have no such trouble. Danny From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 22:49:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA08708 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA08694 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA06076; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:48:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Henry Spencer cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:05:50 EDT. Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:48:16 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. >> I don't know if they can handle that... > >Why bother trying to make them handle it? Ethernet is a much nicer way >to connect to high-speed networks (or even not-so-high-speed ones like >ISDN), given that there has to be an interface gadget of some kind between >you and the network anyway. UARTs are for low speeds. > > Henry Spencer > henry@zoo.toronto.edu Henry, The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART. Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to you compared to the ethernet solution, considering that the $400 non-ethernet solution compare to an ethernet one. You can get up to 512 Kbaud/second with it, it has 3 types of compression and header compression (Stac, Ascend and Microsoft) and can change from two BRI channels down to one and vice versa as the other channel is used for voice fax, analog modem, phone, etc. Pretty good in my opinion. Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 23:00:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09340 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09330 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA06127; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:59:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199606290559.BAA06127@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: hdalog@zipnet.net cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:58:58 EDT. <199606282358.TAA01026@hda.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:59:34 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199606282358.TAA01026@hda.com>you write: >> I think "dumb" ones should be able to go at least 115200 per port (for even >> $120-$130 new modems. Smart ones should support at least 512kbaud/port.) >> Some like ones based on the TI 17550 chip (I think) go up to > 900 Kbaud/sec. > >Probably, but I don't want to comment on things I don't know about. As said earlier check out http://www.turbocom.com. Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 23:03:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA09415 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09408 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id CAA06149; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:03:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199606290603.CAA06149@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Henry Spencer cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:05:50 EDT. Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:02:59 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. >> I don't know if they can handle that... > >Why bother trying to make them handle it? Ethernet is a much nicer way >to connect to high-speed networks (or even not-so-high-speed ones like >ISDN), given that there has to be an interface gadget of some kind between >you and the network anyway. UARTs are for low speeds. > > Henry Spencer > henry@zoo.toronto.edu Also, why add an ethernet to the home system, when really you usually just want a point to point connection from your house to the ISP, a route from your home computer to the ISP and a route from the ISP to any default request, and don't have any need for a local LAN? Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jun 28 23:25:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10357 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10348 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-2) with ESMTP id HAA12161; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:24:09 +0100 (BST) To: "Jacob M. Parnas" cc: Henry Spencer , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@bsdi.com From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:48:16 EDT." <199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:24:08 +0100 Message-ID: <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jacob M. Parnas" wrote in message ID <199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net>: > Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions > cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at > home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that > costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART > on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to I'm sorry? I cabled and equipped a LAN at home for less than $1000, for 3 machines (2 PC's, and one `other') (admittedly 10b2, not 10bT which is what I would go for today). I take it you are talking about MAN/WAN solutions rather than LAN solutions? If that is what you are talking about, then it REALLY depends where you are ... it costs 400 pounds (about $600 US) just to INSTALL ISDN in this country :-( > you compared to the ethernet solution, considering that the $400 non-ethernet > solution compare to an ethernet one. You can get up to 512 Kbaud/second > with it, it has 3 types of compression and header compression (Stac, Ascend > and Microsoft) and can change from two BRI channels down to one and vice > versa as the other channel is used for voice fax, analog modem, phone, etc. > Pretty good in my opinion. Yet again, it depends on your application ... even if you buy a high-speed serial card, you still need the equipment to attach to it, which can be even more expensive. If you compare the overall cost with an integrated TA/router (take the Ascent P50 or P25 for an example), and the advantages/disadvantages for your particular application (i.e. the fact that you have 1 pc which causes problems if you reboot to change the kernel or if it crashes), then non-PC solutions become attractive. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:22:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13807 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13801 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA20610; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:40:43 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290710.QAA20610@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:40:43 +0930 (CST) Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606281741.NAA04008@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 28, 96 01:41:22 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: > > I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when > ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. > I don't know if they can handle that. I've heard of a 16650 to come out that > can do better. The 16550 can be clocked safely to several megabits/s. The problem with their implementation in the PC is that they're clocked at ~1.8MHz, which limits them to 115k2. The 16650 is a 16550 with a 32-bye FIFO. Neither are suitable for 512KBps; at this speed you have a new byte arriving every 16us, or a full FIFO after only 512usec. This is too fast for anything other than a dedicated system. The best way to do ISDN into a PC is with a $20 ethernet card and a single-MAC ethernet<->ISDN T/A. > Its amazing that one of the slowest protocols on the computer is the > one that gives most people the most trouble. The UARTs seem to be > one step behind as do the motherboard/software companies. I'm of > course talking about RS/232 system, which has been a problem with > some software at anything over 300 baud at times (even with 9600 > baud modems operating at 300 baud. Sun requires a special board at > least on my sparc 2. So there's no problem with a 10mbit/sec > ethernet, but 1200baud to 1/20 of the original ethernet speed is > even on workstations. The problem is one of backwards compatability. There are plenty of UARTs around that work, and work well, at higher speeds. The 8250 however was an egregious crock when it was first released in the late 1970's, and has not aged well at all. None of the better UARTs have achieved sufficient acceptance to make any serious headway. > On the positive side, I'm told that CDA is going to port to BSDI > next for the Sportster 128 Kbaud (512kbaud with compression) and > should have a beta copy in late July. THey've already done it for > Unixware and SCO and possibly Solaris (I think they said they were > finishing it up). Anyway, this is a cheap internal card which you > can read all about on http://www.usr.com/. I've seen it for $319, > CDA said that Bell Atlantic and possibly other companies would sell > it for $199 if you bought it at the same time as ISDN service. Of little or no interest on this side of the pond 8) > PS. If I were basing a business on modems, I'd make absolutely > certain that they all worked at 512Kbaud, at the same time. If > you've ever experienced This is just stupid. Look at the huge installed base of 14k and 28k modems, and the phenomenal cost of ISDN services in most of the world. There's no chance that in the short to medium term things are going to change; and thus making a serious investment in modern modem technology is not unreasonable. > overruns, its not pleasant. Usually the machine kernel panics and crashes > the machine, fairly often, or in clusters. Not much fun, especially when > you have users that have to deal with it, and are justifyably less than > pleased at placing their trust in you. I have no idea what sort of hardware or software you're running that panics or crashes on serial overruns, but I suggest you replace it immediately with FreeBSD-based systems, as they don't. 8) > | Jacob M. Parnas -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:24:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13953 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13948 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA20624; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:43:20 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290713.QAA20624@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com (Kevin Swanson) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:43:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9606281800.AA05807@BLaCKSMITH.com> from "Kevin Swanson" at Jun 28, 96 02:00:10 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kevin Swanson stands accused of saying: > > I was told by Digi that their "dumb" 8-port boards (PC/8), could only go up > to 19.2 KBps if you used 16550's. This doesn't sound right based on some of > the responses I've been getting. This more likely reflects the software that's being used to talk to the card than the card itself. > Someone mentioned using a Cyclades-8 port serial card at 115.2 > KBps. Is that with 16550's? The Cyclades cards are 'smart' cards; I don't know what UARTs they use, but they have onboard intelligence that removes the necessity to care. > Kevin Swanson -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:26:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14009 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14004 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA20633; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:44:28 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290714.QAA20633@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: cofer@www.cas.unt.edu (Christopher D. Cofer) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:44:28 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Christopher D. Cofer" at Jun 28, 96 01:46:11 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christopher D. Cofer stands accused of saying: > > The question remains... Does FreeBSD work with "intelligent" digboard > cards. I have a machine that I would like to route between ppp and > local net. I choose Linux to do so, since at the time all I could find > about BSD and digiboard PC/Xe was that it was not possible. If this has > changed, would someone please point me to the correct information about > setting this up. I am getting tired of messing with Linux. >From 'man dgb' on a 2.1-stable system : DESCRIPTION The dgb driver provides support for DigiBoard PC/Xe and PC/Xi series in- telligent serial multiport cards with asynchronous interfaces based on the EIA RS-232C (CCITT V.24) standard. Input and output for each line may set to one of following baud rates; 50, 75, 110, 134.5, 150, 300, 600, 1200, 1800, 2400, 4800, 9600, 19200, 38400, 57600, or for newer versions of cards 115200. > * Christopher Don Cofer College of Arts * -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:31:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14253 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14248 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA20648; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:49:40 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290719.QAA20648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:49:40 +0930 (CST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606281933.PAA04484@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 28, 96 03:33:24 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: > > These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At > least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8 > MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast. Fast has nothing to do with it. Interrupt rates do. You should sit down and read some of the stuff that Bruce Evans has posted on the subject over the years; most particularly his analysis of where the actual load in handling serial ports comes from. Some key points : - A 486 can service around 40,000 ISA interrupts per second, assuming minimal interrupt processing time. - Most of the CPU overheard in handling serial in/output is in the tty layer. > Jacob -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:54:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15223 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15218 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA20768; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:12:46 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290742.RAA20768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:12:46 +0930 (CST) Cc: henry@zoo.toronto.edu, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 29, 96 01:48:16 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: > > The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART. Compatible with the 16550? Appropriately clocked, the 16550 will run at 1.5Mbps. > Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions > cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at > home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that This is total bollocks. An NE2000 clone ethernet card and cables will cost you about $30 all up. > costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything > with a UART on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, > how does $400 sound to you compared to the ethernet solution, > considering that the $400 non-ethernet solution compare to an > ethernet one. But it doesn't. You have zero flexibility, a driver with no source, and from what you're saying, a UART-style interface with the associated high interrupt and CPU overheads. > You can get up to 512 Kbaud/second with it, it has 3 > types of compression and header compression (Stac, Ascend and > Microsoft) and can change from two BRI channels down to one and vice > versa as the other channel is used for voice fax, analog modem, > phone, etc. Pretty good in my opinion. Thanks, but I'd go for an Ascend P50 or something similar any day. Particularly since this card is unlikely to pass the Austel tests anytime soon. > Jacob -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 00:56:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15341 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15334 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA20801; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:14:30 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606290744.RAA20801@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:14:29 +0930 (CST) Cc: henry@zoo.toronto.edu, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606290603.CAA06149@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 29, 96 02:02:59 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: > Also, why add an ethernet to the home system, when really you > usually just want a point to point connection from your house to the > ISP, a route from your home computer to the ISP and a route from the > ISP to any default request, and don't have any need for a local LAN? What's the difference between an ethernet card and a high-speed serial card other than the name and the shape of the connectors? (Aside from performance, of course) > Jacob -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 03:12:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA22428 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.ftcnet.com (admin@alpha.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA22422 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from admin@localhost) by alpha.ftcnet.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id DAA00152; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:11:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Klatt- Admin To: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com Subject: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000? In-Reply-To: <199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk was Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote: > >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when > >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. > >> I don't know if they can handle that... > > > The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART. > > I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, > and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for > BSDI will be $95. I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550- based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server. I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news server. This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output spooling. I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think 16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product source would be welcome. Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 03:46:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA23708 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.com (ip86-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA23703 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA03826; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:34:55 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199606291034.GAA03826@hda.com> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199606290719.QAA20648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jun 29, 96 04:49:40 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Fast has nothing to do with it. Interrupt rates do. > > You should sit down and read some of the stuff that Bruce Evans has posted > on the subject over the years; most particularly his analysis of where the > actual load in handling serial ports comes from. Some key points : > > - A 486 can service around 40,000 ISA interrupts per second, assuming > minimal interrupt processing time. > - Most of the CPU overheard in handling serial in/output is in the tty > layer. As you know once you're in the interrupt routine it will check all ports, meaning that in the special case of input streaming in on multiple ports you will have a big reduction in interrupt load. I second looking up some of Bruce's postings. Now a few caveats I should have included in my last message about four ports continuous at 115200, since it doesn't translate over to general usage. I'm using my own software in a dedicated environment. I had to look in the driver to find the "right" settings of TTY flags to get a fast path through the driver, and I'm wondering if I'll have to tweak things when I upgrade the OS. The data is only coming in - nothing is going back out again. I can't vertically scroll an Xterm with the serial mouse without dropping input on the streaming data during a test session. If we were to double the size of the test stand to 8 devices I'd take a page from Henry's book and dedicate a small 486 to collect the data and then send it to the analysis system over ethernet. However, it is actually five ports at 115200, since we have a debug port running the same software to the same type of device that we think nothing of using during a collection sequence. And I sometimes establish a PPP link at 57.6 on a modem control line while the testing is going on. The overhead on the system is not dramatic - you don't notice that anything is going on other than the "xterm scroll" problem. We stay in X, leave drives NFS exported, etc. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 04:05:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA24650 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 04:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA24618 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 04:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA02125; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:01:42 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:01:42 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291101.VAA02125@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, bsdi-users@bsdi.com, hardware@FreeBSD.org, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The 16550 can be clocked safely to several megabits/s. The problem >with their implementation in the PC is that they're clocked at >~1.8MHz, which limits them to 115k2. The 16650 is a 16550 with a 32-bye I suppose the highly integrated 16550 clones can't be clocked so high. Especially if their clock is integrated. >FIFO. Neither are suitable for 512KBps; at this speed you have a new >byte arriving every 16us, or a full FIFO after only 512usec. This is too >fast for anything other than a dedicated system. That's not fast. A 386/20 can easily handle an interrupt every 86 us for a full (1 byte :-) fifo on an 8250. The problem is to move the data fast enough. 40 us every 512 us to move 32 bytes may be acceptable for one port, but it won't work for 16 ports. >> Its amazing that one of the slowest protocols on the computer is the >> one that gives most people the most trouble. The UARTs seem to be >> one step behind as do the motherboard/software companies. I'm of It seems more like 10 generations (with 10 steps per generation :-). >> course talking about RS/232 system, which has been a problem with >> some software at anything over 300 baud at times (even with 9600 >> baud modems operating at 300 baud. Sun requires a special board at >> least on my sparc 2. So there's no problem with a 10mbit/sec >> ethernet, but 1200baud to 1/20 of the original ethernet speed is >> even on workstations. FreeBSD software is only one generation behind. It routinely handles 115200 bps. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 04:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA25101 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 04:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25093 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 04:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA02333; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:08:51 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:08:51 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291108.VAA02333@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At >> least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8 >> MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast. >Fast has nothing to do with it. Interrupt rates do. >You should sit down and read some of the stuff that Bruce Evans has posted >on the subject over the years; most particularly his analysis of where the >actual load in handling serial ports comes from. Some key points : > - A 486 can service around 40,000 ISA interrupts per second, assuming > minimal interrupt processing time. > - Most of the CPU overheard in handling serial in/output is in the tty > layer. Erm, this shows that interrupt rates don't matter all that much (if the interrupt handler is efficient) except on machines with fairly fast CPUs (e.g. Pentiums) with fast i/o (e.g., 16.6MB/s for PIO mode 4) unless the UART's fifos are much too small (e.g. 8250s). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 05:38:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA00504 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA00493 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA04438; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 22:32:31 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 22:32:31 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291232.WAA04438@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hdalog@zipnet.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As you know once you're in the interrupt routine it will >check all ports, meaning that in the special case of input streaming >in on multiple ports you will have a big reduction in interrupt load. >I second looking up some of Bruce's postings. This is actually the weakest point in the sio driver. Polling 16 ports wastes a lot of time when only a few of them are active, and I think processing multiple ports per interrupt is relatively rare even when many of them are active. The poll is only for interrupt- pending, not for input-available so it only finds input when the the fifo is full. >I'm using my own software in a dedicated environment. I had to >look in the driver to find the "right" settings of TTY flags to >get a fast path through the driver, and I'm wondering if I'll have >to tweak things when I upgrade the OS. The data is only coming in >- nothing is going back out again. "raw" termios mode should always be fast and other line disciplines should be no slower than your line displine handler :-). The FreeBSD line discipline interface is the standard BSD per-char one so it is slower than the hacked-for-FreeBSD "raw" termios mode. This should be fixed someday. >I can't vertically scroll an Xterm with the serial mouse without >dropping input on the streaming data during a test session. If we >were to double the size of the test stand to 8 devices I'd >take a page from Henry's book and dedicate a small 486 to collect >the data and then send it to the analysis system over ethernet. There seems to be a problem with some graphics hardware or drivers disabling interrupts for too long. I get occasional overruns when switching to or from X on an S3 868 graphics card. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 06:09:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA01612 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01600 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA05135; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:02:17 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:02:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291302.XAA05135@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, danny@lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >... I've found that if the machine >crashes, the 16550 AST clones I'm also using are not guaranteed to come >up with a warm boot - need power cycle to flush buffers or something. This is caused by interrupts not getting disabled early enough. Serial devices are probed in the order in the config file and pending shared interrupts for later devices cause the probes of the earlier devices to fail. This can probably be worked around (at little cost) by duplicating all the AST devices so that they all get reprobed after they have all been probed. E.g., sio4, ... sio7, sio4, ... sio7. The same problem for multiport non-AST cards was fixed a few months ago. >With the cyclades I have no such trouble. It is easier to reset in software since there are only a few models. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 06:11:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA01731 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01725; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA07506; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:11:19 -0400 Message-Id: <199606291311.JAA07506@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: "Gary Palmer" cc: Henry Spencer , hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:24:08 BST. <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:11:16 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk>you write: >"Jacob M. Parnas" wrote in message ID ><199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net>: >> Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions >> cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at >> home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that >> costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART >> on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to > >I'm sorry? I cabled and equipped a LAN at home for less than $1000, >for 3 machines (2 PC's, and one `other') (admittedly 10b2, not 10bT >which is what I would go for today). If you reread my original message, I said the etherneting was in addition to the $1000+ ISDN ethernet links). >I take it you are talking about MAN/WAN solutions rather than LAN >solutions? If that is what you are talking about, then it REALLY >depends where you are ... it costs 400 pounds (about $600 US) just to >INSTALL ISDN in this country :-( I'm sorry its so expensive there. In the US, especially some places, its quite cheap (~150 install + 1-2 cents/minute usage (I plan to use it when using netscape and stuff that requires high bandwidth. The ISP cost here should be about $50/month. The monthly fee is similar to analog lines. >> you compared to the ethernet solution, considering that the $400 non-ethernet >> solution compare to an ethernet one. You can get up to 512 Kbaud/second >> with it, it has 3 types of compression and header compression (Stac, Ascend >> and Microsoft) and can change from two BRI channels down to one and vice >> versa as the other channel is used for voice fax, analog modem, phone, etc. >> Pretty good in my opinion. > >Yet again, it depends on your application ... even if you buy a >high-speed serial card, you still need the equipment to attach to it, >which can be even more expensive. If you compare the overall cost with >an integrated TA/router (take the Ascent P50 or P25 for an example), >and the advantages/disadvantages for your particular application >(i.e. the fact that you have 1 pc which causes problems if you reboot >to change the kernel or if it crashes), then non-PC solutions become >attractive. I agree that its bad if the software driver is buggy. But if it isn't (They go through extensive testing they said), I think the Ascend solution is well over than double the cost of the USR Sportster ISDN 128 Terminal Adapter. I believe that the Ascends are close to $1000, discounted. From net express' price list: Ascend P50-1UBRI..................................$ 1022 Ascend P50-LS56...................................$ 1096 It has pretty good prices. net address is http://www.tdl.com/~netex/price. >Gary >-- >Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member >FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jacob M. Parnas | | IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. | | Internet: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 06:17:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA01976 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01971; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA07529; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:17:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199606291317.JAA07529@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: "Gary Palmer" cc: Henry Spencer , hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:24:08 BST. <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:17:06 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk>you write: >"Jacob M. Parnas" wrote in message ID ><199606290548.BAA06076@jparnas.cybercom.net>: >> Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions >> cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at >> home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that >> costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART >> on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to > >I'm sorry? I cabled and equipped a LAN at home for less than $1000, >for 3 machines (2 PC's, and one `other') (admittedly 10b2, not 10bT >which is what I would go for today). I thought the question was on what to expect from UARTS for high speed applications. I think Henry suggested using a local ethernet to connect to a ISP ethernet <-> ethernet<->ethernet WAN ISDN connection or high speed modem <-> home ethernet. Jacob From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 07:38:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA05700 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05694 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from modem.eng.umd.edu (modem.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.187]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19876; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by modem.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05339; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:37:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@modem.eng.umd.edu To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <199606291232.WAA04438@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC: list trimmed, these guys are all on hackers anyways] On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > >As you know once you're in the interrupt routine it will > >check all ports, meaning that in the special case of input streaming > >in on multiple ports you will have a big reduction in interrupt load. > >I second looking up some of Bruce's postings. > > This is actually the weakest point in the sio driver. Polling 16 > ports wastes a lot of time when only a few of them are active, and > I think processing multiple ports per interrupt is relatively rare > even when many of them are active. The poll is only for interrupt- > pending, not for input-available so it only finds input when the > the fifo is full. Are you sure of that, Bruce? I spoke a long while back with a guy who'd written the digiboard driver for sysV machines, and he claimed that, except when only one port was active, that it was actually much more efficient to ignore which uart had actually issued the interrupt, and simply service them all on each interrupt. He said he'd done some testing to back that up, altho I don't have the specifics anymore (this was at least 5 years ago). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 07:52:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA06612 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.254.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06597 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sceard.UUCP by mail.ucsd.edu; id HAA01805 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via UUCP Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:52:53 -0700 for freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-hardware Received: by Sceard.COM (smail2.5/deliver1.5) id AA17688; 29 Jun 96 07:50:20 PDT (Sat) To: freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000? Cc: admin@ftcnet.com, mrm@MARMOT.mole.org Message-Id: <9606290750.AA17683@Sceard.COM> Date: 29 Jun 96 07:50:18 PDT (Sat) From: mrm@Sceard.COM (M.R.Murphy) Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >was Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server >On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote: > >> >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when >> >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. >> >> I don't know if they can handle that... >> > >> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART. >> >> I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, >> and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for >> BSDI will be $95. > >I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news >feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550- >based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server. >I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as >a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news >server. > This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked >around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but >they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has >a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output >spooling. > I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial >card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think >16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat >data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product >source would be welcome. > >Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com > Change the lines in sio.c that now read com->ftl_init = FIFO_TRIGGER_14; and ? FIFO_TRIGGER_1 : FIFO_TRIGGER_8; to com->ftl_init = FIFO_TRIGGER_8; and ? FIFO_TRIGGER_1 : FIFO_TRIGGER_8; and then rebuild your system and see if you still get overruns. This will increase the interrupt load but will also give more time to service the interrupt before FIFO overrun occurs. A 486DX4/100 should be able to handle the increased load without problems. This is an alternative to either 1) change the #ifdef so that the FIFO_TRIGGER_DELTA code is again active even though it is non optimally placed, or 2) putting the FIFO_TRIGGER_DELTA code in the right place. I know it's not the best solution, but it's better than no solution. It would be nice to have this in the source such that it could be a parameter selected at configuration time. -- Mike Murphy mrm@Sceard.COM ucsd!sceard!mrm +1 619 598 5874 Better is the enemy of Good From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 07:53:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA06622 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.254.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06595 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sceard.UUCP by mail.ucsd.edu; id HAA01802 sendmail 8.6.12/UCSD-2.2-sun via UUCP Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:52:52 -0700 for freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-hardware Received: by Sceard.COM (smail2.5/deliver1.5) id AA17683; 29 Jun 96 07:50:18 PDT (Sat) To: freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000? Cc: admin@ftcnet.com, mrm@marmot.mole.org Message-Id: <9606290750.AA17683@Sceard.COM> Date: 29 Jun 96 07:50:18 PDT (Sat) From: mrm@Sceard.COM (M.R.Murphy) Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >was Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server >On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote: > >> >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when >> >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. >> >> I don't know if they can handle that... >> > >> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART. >> >> I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, >> and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for >> BSDI will be $95. > >I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news >feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550- >based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server. >I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as >a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news >server. > This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked >around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but >they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has >a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output >spooling. > I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial >card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think >16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat >data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product >source would be welcome. > >Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com > Change the lines in sio.c that now read com->ftl_init = FIFO_TRIGGER_14; and ? FIFO_TRIGGER_1 : FIFO_TRIGGER_8; to com->ftl_init = FIFO_TRIGGER_8; and ? FIFO_TRIGGER_1 : FIFO_TRIGGER_8; and then rebuild your system and see if you still get overruns. This will increase the interrupt load but will also give more time to service the interrupt before FIFO overrun occurs. A 486DX4/100 should be able to handle the increased load without problems. This is an alternative to either 1) change the #ifdef so that the FIFO_TRIGGER_DELTA code is again active even though it is non optimally placed, or 2) putting the FIFO_TRIGGER_DELTA code in the right place. I know it's not the best solution, but it's better than no solution. It would be nice to have this in the source such that it could be a parameter selected at configuration time. -- Mike Murphy mrm@Sceard.COM ucsd!sceard!mrm +1 619 598 5874 Better is the enemy of Good From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 08:28:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA08923 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA08916 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA07860; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:23:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199606291523.LAA07860@jparnas.cybercom.net> X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com X-External-Networks: yes Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:40:43 +0930. <199606290710.QAA20610@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:22:54 -0400 From: "Jacob M. Parnas" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199606290710.QAA20610@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>you write: >Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: >> >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm. >> I don't know if they can handle that. I've heard of a 16650 to come out that >> can do better. > >The 16550 can be clocked safely to several megabits/s. The problem >with their implementation in the PC is that they're clocked at >~1.8MHz, which limits them to 115k2. The 16650 is a 16550 with a 32-bye >FIFO. Neither are suitable for 512KBps; at this speed you have a new >byte arriving every 16us, or a full FIFO after only 512usec. This is too >fast for anything other than a dedicated system. > >The best way to do ISDN into a PC is with a $20 ethernet card and a >single-MAC ethernet<->ISDN T/A. Thanks for the information. But as I said in a recent message, the new TI chip can go over 900Kbaud/sec. This isn't so fast. Its 1/10th the speed of old ethernet and 1/100 of new 100 Mbit/sec ethernet. >> Its amazing that one of the slowest protocols on the computer is the >> one that gives most people the most trouble. The UARTs seem to be >> one step behind as do the motherboard/software companies. I'm of >> course talking about RS/232 system, which has been a problem with >> some software at anything over 300 baud at times (even with 9600 >> baud modems operating at 300 baud. Sun requires a special board at >> least on my sparc 2. So there's no problem with a 10mbit/sec >> ethernet, but 1200baud to 1/20 of the original ethernet speed is >> even on workstations. > >The problem is one of backwards compatability. There are plenty of >UARTs around that work, and work well, at higher speeds. The 8250 >however was an egregious crock when it was first released in the late >1970's, and has not aged well at all. None of the better UARTs have >achieved sufficient acceptance to make any serious headway. I understand, but it still seems funny that a computer shipped in 1990 or so (The IBM RT running BSD and with the enhanced advanced processor), couldn't put up to date UARTS on the motherboard UARTS or 4 port card uarts, and get it working fast and reliably. I think the one on the motherboard had 1 or 2 bytes of buffering. >> On the positive side, I'm told that CDA is going to port to BSDI >> next for the Sportster 128 Kbaud (512kbaud with compression) and >> should have a beta copy in late July. THey've already done it for >> Unixware and SCO and possibly Solaris (I think they said they were >> finishing it up). Anyway, this is a cheap internal card which you >> can read all about on http://www.usr.com/. I've seen it for $319, >> CDA said that Bell Atlantic and possibly other companies would sell >> it for $199 if you bought it at the same time as ISDN service. > >Of little or no interest on this side of the pond 8) >> PS. If I were basing a business on modems, I'd make absolutely >> certain that they all worked at 512Kbaud, at the same time. If >> you've ever experienced >This is just stupid. Look at the huge installed base of 14k and 28k >modems, and the phenomenal cost of ISDN services in most of the world. >There's no chance that in the short to medium term things are going to >change; and thus making a serious investment in modern modem >technology is not unreasonable. Technology moves pretty fast sometimes. Just a couple years or so V.32bis modems or expensive V.FC/V.fast modems were the norm. Now were using V.34bis. Remember how CD's weren't going to replace records for the most part? At least on this side of the pond, ISDN is getting cheaper and cheaper and large graphics files (using netscape) or NFS may work for some ISDN users depending on the size of the files. Also, the quality of network modems should be quite good with ISDN while its poor on V.34 modems. I'm not saying its for everyone, but I know my ISP just spent 15,000 on a server for about 100 ISDN connections. Even forgetting ISDN, 115,200 baud would be a problem for some UARTs, which is pretty common these days. (although that's with compression. I rarely see over 70,000-80,000 baud.) I think that ISP's have really saturated the market especially with low cost competition by nationwide companies. Also, the user base is growing, and many Americans may want to pay a bit more for their ISDN connection than waiting 10 minutes for a full screen 24 bit color image to come through via netscape. The costs are $68 for my line install (cheaper, I think than my analog second line) $25-35/month telco (about same as analog) about $60 vs $20 for analog for unlimited usage. $.01/min/channel (biggest problem. In southern CA, I have a friend who doesn't the surcharge per minute on weekends and I think northern CA may be even cheaper. $400 for "modem/terminal adapter" and Unix driver. (may be lower in some places. The ISDN card has the ability to attach an analog modem, phone, fax or whatever and use one of the channels for free up to 56 kbaud. Some of the less developed countries may be slower to match US prices, but I hardly think this solution is stupid for a large section of the population. Many analog modems cost much more (especially the very early V.fast/V.FC modems. >> overruns, its not pleasant. Usually the machine kernel panics and crashes >> the machine, fairly often, or in clusters. Not much fun, especially when >> you have users that have to deal with it, and are justifyably less than >> pleased at placing their trust in you. >I have no idea what sort of hardware or software you're running that >panics or crashes on serial overruns, but I suggest you replace it >immediately with FreeBSD-based systems, as they don't. 8) It was an IBM RT running 4.3 BSD with or without the optional 4 port card. Its no longer a problem and hasn't been since around 1987-8 or so for me. I prefer to be able to get a contracted support policy, which I don't think FreeBSD has. Therefore, I'm going with BSDI. I'd rather not be down for a long time because of maintainer of a piece of code is on vacation for 3 weeks. BSDI has a paid for support contract which requires them to fix things promptly for not much money. After being burned by it once, I've been careful since to avoid such problems. >> | Jacob M. Parnas > >-- >]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ >]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ >]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jacob M. Parnas | | IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. | | Internet: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 08:30:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA09047 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09033 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA21450; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:49:04 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606291519.AAA21450@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:49:03 +0930 (CST) Cc: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, bsdi-users@bsdi.com, hardware@FreeBSD.org, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua In-Reply-To: <199606291101.VAA02125@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jun 29, 96 09:01:42 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > >FIFO. Neither are suitable for 512KBps; at this speed you have a new > >byte arriving every 16us, or a full FIFO after only 512usec. This is too > >fast for anything other than a dedicated system. > > That's not fast. A 386/20 can easily handle an interrupt every 86 us for > a full (1 byte :-) fifo on an 8250. The problem is to move the data > fast enough. 40 us every 512 us to move 32 bytes may be acceptable for > one port, but it won't work for 16 ports. It wouldn't surprise me for some other part of the system to block serial interrupts for 1/2msec or longer; FIFO overflows on a 16550 occur on occasion on an X workstation running at 38k4, ie. 4ms worth of FIFO. Hence the comment about a dedicated system. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 08:32:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA09190 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09185 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA21469; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:51:02 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606291521.AAA21469@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000? To: admin@ftcnet.com (Bernard Klatt- Admin) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:51:02 +0930 (CST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: from "Bernard Klatt- Admin" at Jun 29, 96 03:11:21 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bernard Klatt- Admin stands accused of saying: > > I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news > feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550- > based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server. > I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as > a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news > server. > This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked > around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but > they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has > a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output > spooling. > I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial > card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think > 16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat > data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product > source would be welcome. First suggestion would be to shoot the Pagesat people for a box with no flow control 8) Second would be to look at a Hayes ESP card. IIRC, these guys have receive FIFOs up around the 1K mark, and are supported by the 'sio' driver. > Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 08:50:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA10676 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA10662 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 08:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA21513; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:06:38 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606291536.BAA21513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:06:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606291523.LAA07860@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jun 29, 96 11:22:54 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying: > > Thanks for the information. But as I said in a recent message, the new TI > chip can go over 900Kbaud/sec. This isn't so fast. Its 1/10th the speed > of old ethernet and 1/100 of new 100 Mbit/sec ethernet. As I've already said, the 16550 will go faster. The problem is that the programming model for the 16550 makes no provision for more divider steps, and thus any software that wants to talk to either of these chips must be modified to understand the higher speeds. Quatech do a card called the DS-100 with a pair of PC16550D's and an 18MHz clock and a jumperable /1 /2 /5 /10 divider that will allow your to run your 16550 ports significantly faster. Unfortunately, they tried to implement the card properly, and as such we have had serious problems with the cards in fast (>486/33) machines. > I understand, but it still seems funny that a computer shipped in 1990 or so > (The IBM RT running BSD and with the enhanced advanced processor), couldn't > put up to date UARTS on the motherboard UARTS or 4 port card uarts, and get > it working fast and reliably. I think the one on the motherboard had 1 or 2 > bytes of buffering. Serial ports like that are intended as console ports or for debugging the system during development. Standard network design philosphy does not allow for compute servers to have heavy I/O. Look at the Encore Multimax for a good example of this; lots of compute, lots of disk & memory, but Encore built its serial I/O into a seperate box and called it an Annex. > The costs are $68 for my line install (cheaper, I think than my > analog second line) $25-35/month telco (about same as analog) about > $60 vs $20 for analog for unlimited usage. $.01/min/channel > (biggest problem. In southern CA, I have a friend who doesn't the > surcharge per minute on weekends and I think northern CA may be even > cheaper. $400 for "modem/terminal adapter" and Unix driver. (may be > lower in some places. Your americocentricity is appalling. In most of the civilised world, ISDN is still outrageously expensive. > I prefer to be able to get a contracted support policy, which I don't think > FreeBSD has. Therefore, I'm going with BSDI. I'd rather not be down for > a long time because of maintainer of a piece of code is on vacation for 3 > weeks. BSDI has a paid for support contract which requires them to fix > things promptly for not much money. You should try talking to Karl Denninger (or perhaps just read his posts to the various FreeBSD lists) before you make the choice. Search for karl@mcs.net (or just mail him and ask). > After being burned by it once, I've been careful since to avoid such problems. Your naivete' is touching. > >> | Jacob M. Parnas -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 09:42:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA13717 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13702 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA11012; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 02:41:45 +1000 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 02:41:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291641.CAA11012@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, chuckr@Glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >As you know once you're in the interrupt routine it will >> >check all ports, meaning that in the special case of input streaming >> >in on multiple ports you will have a big reduction in interrupt load. >> >I second looking up some of Bruce's postings. >> >> This is actually the weakest point in the sio driver. Polling 16 >> ports wastes a lot of time when only a few of them are active, and >> I think processing multiple ports per interrupt is relatively rare >> even when many of them are active. The poll is only for interrupt- >> pending, not for input-available so it only finds input when the >> the fifo is full. >Are you sure of that, Bruce? I spoke a long while back with a guy who'd >written the digiboard driver for sysV machines, and he claimed that, >except when only one port was active, that it was actually much more >efficient to ignore which uart had actually issued the interrupt, and >simply service them all on each interrupt. He said he'd done some >testing to back that up, altho I don't have the specifics anymore (this >was at least 5 years ago). Fairly sure. I'm fairly sure that for an 8 port cyclades board on a 486/33 it is most efficient to process precisely the ports which have an interrupt pending. Looking inside the UARTs on a cd1400 is very expensive. Although the chip has a lot of directly accessible memory- mapped registers, the critical registers have to be bank switched to do i/o. A naive polling method (like the one in the data book :-) takes 16 i/o's per port for bank switching and 3 i/o's per port to poll for the existence of a serial event (input, input exception, modem status change or output completion). This could possibly be reduced to 4 i/o's per port by not preserving the registers. I didn't even consider polling everything for the cyclades driver! What I tested carefully was looping until all pending interrupts (for the cyclades board that interrupted) were serviced. Looping costs only one i/o per cd1400 (2 i/o's for an 8-port board), but was slower because it rarely found anything to do and taking an extra interrupt only costs a few usec (and if polling was cheaper and used, finding something to do would often be bad because of high setup costs). The 16550 multiport driver has to loop to (portably) avoid ISA edge triggered interrupt braindamage. Looking inside a 16550 is only fairly expensive. It takes 2 i/o's to poll for the existence of a serial event. I think this is about 2 too many for polling to be worthwhile :-). Taking an extra interrupt costs 5-10us on a 486DX2/66, so always doing 2 extra i/o's at a cost of 1.25us each is only worthwhile if it finds something to do more than 50%-25% of the time. OTOH, the SysV optimization is close to being best for the first time around the loop in the 16550 multiport case. The loop currently takes 1 i/o per port to poll for pending interrupts (this misses partially full fifos). The two i/o's for a full poll could be reduced to 1 if the polling for modem status change is skipped. Modem status changes could be checked for only if there didn't seem to be any other cause for the interrupt. The loop to test for pending interrupts would still be necessary on systems with edge triggered interrupts. 8250s and some 16450s lose modem status interrupts, so this method should only be used if it works. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 10:07:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA14838 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14831 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA11614; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 03:05:52 +1000 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 03:05:52 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199606291705.DAA11614@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, bsdi-users@bsdi.com, hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It wouldn't surprise me for some other part of the system to block >serial interrupts for 1/2msec or longer; FIFO overflows on a 16550 occur >on occasion on an X workstation running at 38k4, ie. 4ms worth of FIFO. >Hence the comment about a dedicated system. That's a bug in the other part of the system (probably the X server or the graphics card). There are no known bugs in this area in the kernel software since I fixed everything that blocked serial interrupts for more than a few microseconds before I worked on the serial driver. The maximum latency is about 10 usec on a 486/33. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 19:02:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA02006 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01962 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA20168 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:47:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id XAA08696; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:45:08 GMT Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:45:08 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Michael Smith cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" , stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@bsdi.com Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <199606290710.QAA20610@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > This is just stupid. Look at the huge installed base of 14k and 28k > modems, and the phenomenal cost of ISDN services in most of the world. Japan is one of the places where it's relatively cheap. Of course the cost of using a regular telephone line is outrageous compared to what we are used to in the US. mike From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 19:18:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04277 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04254; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA17855 ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:31:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Henry Spencer Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: "Jacob M. Parnas" cc: Gary Palmer , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606291317.JAA07529@jparnas.cybercom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I thought the question was on what to expect from UARTS for high speed > applications. I think Henry suggested using a local ethernet to connect to > a ISP ethernet <-> ethernet<->ethernet WAN ISDN connection or high > speed modem <-> home ethernet. Just to clarify... My suggestion is that you do not want a high-speed application which looks like a UART to the software, at all, ever. You want high-speed applications to come in via Ethernet, so your software is dealing with a packet at a time rather than a character at a time. It's worth the overhead of having to set up a 0.5m-long Ethernet, which is fairly trivial nowadays. Yes, there are people who build high-speed interfaces that look like UARTs, and they can be cheaper than the ones that sit on the other side of an Ethernet. You get what you pay for. Henry Spencer henry@zoo.toronto.edu From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 19:44:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04043 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03980 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA18088 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:11:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Henry Spencer Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server To: "Jacob M. Parnas" cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com In-Reply-To: <199606290603.CAA06149@jparnas.cybercom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, why add an ethernet to the home system, when really you usually just > want a point to point connection from your house to the ISP, a route from > your home computer to the ISP and a route from the ISP to any default request, > and don't have any need for a local LAN? Why *not* add an Ethernet to the home system? It's a cheap and simple way to get an efficient high-speed connection into your machine. The key is to stop thinking of Ethernet as an expensive LAN, and start thinking of it as a fast alternative to RS232. A 10BaseT Ethernet card and a crossover cable is a cheap and easy way to connect *even* *just* *one* high-speed device to your PC. Would you add a serial port for such a purpose? If not, then why not add an Ethernet port instead? It's a lot better and not much more expensive. Henry Spencer henry@zoo.toronto.edu From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jun 29 23:53:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA11351 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flubber.futurecomm.com (bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com [205.247.49.222]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11302; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com Received: from localhost (bbecker@localhost) by flubber.futurecomm.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA00940; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 02:53:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 02:53:22 -0400 (EDT) To: Gary Palmer cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" , Henry Spencer , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@bsdi.com Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server In-Reply-To: <12159.836029448@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions > > cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at > > home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that > > costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART > > on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to > > I'm sorry? I cabled and equipped a LAN at home for less than $1000, > for 3 machines (2 PC's, and one `other') (admittedly 10b2, not 10bT > which is what I would go for today). Figuring the price of cheap ethernet cards to be under $40US, you should be able (today) to connect 3 machines for something like $200US including the cost of wire and rj-45 connecters. For a network that small, you can get away with not having a hub. You get away with no hub by swapping the RX and TX pairs on the cables connecting one box to another. Of course one of the boxes has to have two cards, and it also has to be able to route packets between the other two boxes. (Since this is 'bsdi-users', i'm presuming that a BSDI box would be filling that role). But the price of hubs has dropped dramatically. An Accton 8-port 10bt hub is something like $125 if i'm not mistaken. A little black thing about the size of the lizard book. If you prefer white, you can get the same hub from 3Com, Bill