From owner-freebsd-hubs Sun Sep 1 16:52:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29494 for hubs-outgoing; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29469; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA12706; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 18:52:30 -0500 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 18:52:34 -0500 To: John Polstra From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: cvsup question, src/tools not updated, make release trouble Cc: hubs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> b) When getting cvs via cvsup I dont get the tools directory ... Why ? > >It's not a CVSup problem. It's because the mirror site you're using >hasn't updated his sup configuration files recently. Which brings me back to a previous suggestion. I think that we should standardize the location of the trees being "supped". I suggest that they follow the general form of freefall and put them in /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current, etc. If we do that, then the mirror sites can have a special distribution that just gives them the appropriate sup control files. If the master site changes the sup structure, the mirror sites would soon follow suit. From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon Sep 2 10:12:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA01092 for hubs-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01062; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04329; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609021712.KAA04329@austin.polstra.com> To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hubs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup question, src/tools not updated, make release trouble In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Sep 1996 18:52:34 CDT." Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 10:12:18 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >It's because the mirror site you're using > >hasn't updated his sup configuration files recently. > > Which brings me back to a previous suggestion. > I think that we should standardize the location of the trees being "supped". > I suggest that they follow the general form of freefall and put them in > /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current, etc. > > If we do that, then the mirror sites can have a special distribution that > just gives them the appropriate sup control files. I agree with Richard. If the sup control files themselves were propagated to the mirrors automatically, then we wouldn't have these problems all the time. The current manual update-when-somebody-complains system is just too unreliable. Besides, anything we can do to make it easier to run a mirror site is a Good Thing. One minor point: Paths like /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current are rather FTP-specific. We already have a de-facto standard place for the CVS repository, at /home/ncvs. And the sup control files are under /home/sup, which we're more-or-less stuck with because it's hard-coded into everybody's supfiles. I'd propose that we standardize on /home/current or /home/FreeBSD-current, and likewise for -stable. Of course, those could be symlinks to whereever the mirror administrator wanted to put the actual files. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon Sep 2 10:47:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04095 for hubs-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04080; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (cod [208.2.87.4]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA27837; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:47:27 -0500 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 12:47:28 -0500 To: John Polstra From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: cvsup question, src/tools not updated, make release trouble Cc: hubs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Richard Wackerbarth wrote: >One minor point: Paths like /pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current are rather >FTP-specific. We already have a de-facto standard place for the >CVS repository, at /home/ncvs. And the sup control files are under >/home/sup, which we're more-or-less stuck with because it's hard-coded >into everybody's supfiles. But if we establish a new set of sup-files, who cares what "is in everybody's" The standard files will still apply only to someone who gets "everything". Otherwise, the update to the sup-files will destroy local modifications. > I'd propose that we standardize on /home/current or >/home/FreeBSD-current, and likewise for -stable. >Of course, those could be symlinks to whereever the mirror administrator >wanted to put the actual files. The argument AGAINST that standard is that the mirrors have to have the files in /pub anyway. The /home directory is usually under more administrative restriction than is the /pub space. Symlinks can go either way. Just because something has been done that way in the past is no real reason to continue it ad infinitum. Actually, to handle the "local" case, I guess that we should distribute a template that gets processed against the local specification file. The default specification file can be essentially an identity transform. From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon Sep 2 11:05:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04656 for hubs-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04635; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04538; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609021804.LAA04538@austin.polstra.com> To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: hubs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvsup question, src/tools not updated, make release trouble In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Sep 1996 12:47:28 CDT." Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 11:04:57 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >And the sup control files are under > >/home/sup, which we're more-or-less stuck with because it's hard-coded > >into everybody's supfiles. > > But if we establish a new set of sup-files, who cares what "is in everybody's" My point is that there are thousands of FreeBSD supfiles out there in the world, and each line of every one contains "hostbase=/home". That means that every FreeBSD sup/CVSup mirror _must_ have a set of valid sup control files under "/home/sup". The only alternative would be to ask every existing sup user to change his supfiles. The dust from that might settle within a year or so, if we were lucky. > The standard files will still apply only to someone who gets > "everything". Otherwise, the update to the sup-files will destroy > local modifications. I don't understand what you mean. Aren't we talking about keeping the sup _mirrors_ up-to-date? It's only the mirrors who would be supping the sup control files. The mirrors should not have any local modifications. If they do, then they're not really mirrors. Maybe we're using different terminology? When I say "supfile", I mean the file that a client feeds to the "sup" or "cvsup" program. When I say "sup control files", I mean the set of files (under /home/sup for FreeBSD) that the server "supfilesrv" or "cvsupd" looks at. > > I'd propose that we standardize on /home/current or > >/home/FreeBSD-current, and likewise for -stable. > > >Of course, those could be symlinks to whereever the mirror administrator > >wanted to put the actual files. > > The argument AGAINST that standard is that the mirrors have to have the > files in /pub anyway. > > The /home directory is usually under more administrative restriction than > is the /pub space. I bet there's not one official FreeBSD sup mirror that's maintained by a person who does not have root privileges. > Symlinks can go either way. No, they cannot. The FTP daemon runs chrooted to ~ftp. It cannot follow symlinks that lead out of there. Any symlinks would have to point into the ~ftp tree, not out of it. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth