From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 00:34:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA07913 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua ([194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA07901; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA73480; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:34:03 +0200 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:34:03 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG cc: gated@gated.merit.edu Subject: Re: Gated (both 3.5b3 and 3.6a2) on FreeBSD woes: no OSPF Hello startup :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello once again, people, I'm sorry for bothering you with silly questions :( [... "Hello timer mismatch" messages ...] It went out to be a stupid mistype by me, in gated.conf on FreeBSD, hellointerval didn't match the one used by other boxes. Now all is fine, FreeBSD works perfectly. Please take my apologies for wasting bandwidth. And, once again, great Thanks to John Capo for the port of the latest Gated. I strongly recommend FreeBSD team to integrate it into the ports tree, as a replacement for 3.5b3 or as just "yet another" Gated. > > I'm running 3.6a2 on one -current system and two -stable systems. > > A port is at ftp://ftp.irbs.com/FreeBSD/ports/gated-3.6a2.tgz. > > > John Capo jc@irbs.com > > IRBS Engineering FreeBSD Servers and Workstations > > (954) 792-9551 Unix/Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions > -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 05:32:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA15986 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 05:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA15979; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 05:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA01666; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 05:32:09 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: pppgetty Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 05:32:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1664.847114329@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Whatever happened with this? Were we going to integrate it? If not, why not? It seems a perfectly useful feature, and a great way of making a more annex-like solution out of a FreeBSD box. Having now learned and lived with the horror that is radiusd, I have to say that there's a certain attractiveness to making a single box do your dialup-ppp services *and* your interactive logins. Accounting sure becomes a lot easier, and if you're using external modems anyway... Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 06:15:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA18541 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18528; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA04882; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:13:59 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611041413.IAA04882@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:13:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1664.847114329@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 4, 96 05:32:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Whatever happened with this? Were we going to integrate it? If not, > why not? It seems a perfectly useful feature, and a great way of > making a more annex-like solution out of a FreeBSD box. Having now > learned and lived with the horror that is radiusd, I have to say that > there's a certain attractiveness to making a single box do your > dialup-ppp services *and* your interactive logins. Accounting sure > becomes a lot easier, and if you're using external modems anyway... Jordan, I am not particularly thrilled about the idea of modems on the same box as interactive logins, as it can be a security risk (think of what could happen if someone exploited a security hole to gain access to a cua* device, all sorts of havoc could follow). I guess this also dates back to my SunOS days, because my old Suns were not fast enough to handle even two 14.4K modems. I much preferred offloading the modems onto a system with a 386DX/25 and a few 16550's. Anyways... I still have my patches to do the pppgetty thing. As a matter of fact, I just recently integrated those patches with my "network login router" software... this was the original local hack that ran on the 386DX/25 :-) A modified getty and login presents a "normal" banner and login: prompt and then waits for input. A central server is then contacted, and returns a reply based on local policy as to what to do with the user (local login, remote login, etc)... all very transparently. This is really cool because it provides much of the core functionality needed for ISP "terminal server" environments. Let's say you have a "shell account" machine and a "terminal server" machine. You set logins that have a passwd entry on the "shell account" machine to be rlogin'ed over to the shell account machine, logins that begin with a 'P' to log in on the terminal server via passwd authentication, and PAP style logins of course log in on the terminal server too. Now when the ISP gets a little bigger, assuming everything else was also engineered for growth (usually isn't, common ISP mistake)... you get half a dozen more terminal servers. Each one is drop and go. When you need another shell account machine, you have a little fun.. you set up local "NLR" policy so that logins starting with the letters 'A-M' are on one machine and 'N-Z' on the other. You put the home file systems on appropriate disks, etc. The users are automagically logged in on the right machine.... nifty cool. I am not willing to release this code as it sits, but if there is some particularly enterprising small ISP with a good C hacker that would like to work with me to whip it into better shape, I would consider providing it under BSD style copyright after it was whipped into shape. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 06:49:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA21752 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA21740 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.gds.de (goofy.gds.de [194.77.222.2]) by gds.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA01660 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:37:36 GMT Message-Id: <199611041637.QAA01660@gds.de> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Gresek" Organization: Plus.Net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:49:43 +0000 Subject: remote backup? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, is there a way to make backups from remote machines, something like 'rtar' or do I have to nfs-mount the remote disks? Thanks in advance Richard +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald : 60596 Frankfurt : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de : Fax : +49 69 610238 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 08:37:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00945 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00927; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA02631; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:56:35 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199611041556.QAA02631@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:56:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199611041413.IAA04882@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 4, 96 08:13:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan, > > I am not particularly thrilled about the idea of modems on the same box > as interactive logins, as it can be a security risk (think of what could ... > that ran on the 386DX/25 :-) A modified getty and login presents a > "normal" banner and login: prompt and then waits for input. A central > server is then contacted, and returns a reply based on local policy as > to what to do with the user (local login, remote login, etc)... all > very transparently. is this something similar to what mgetty does ? It has a "login.config" file which can take the appropriate decision basing on login name (not real Regular Expressions are supported, but that shouldn't be too hard). Maybe your stuff is more flexible, though. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 09:22:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04495 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04468; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:22:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA05213; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:47:44 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611041647.KAA05213@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:47:44 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199611041556.QAA02631@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Nov 4, 96 04:56:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan, > > > > I am not particularly thrilled about the idea of modems on the same box > > as interactive logins, as it can be a security risk (think of what could > ... > > that ran on the 386DX/25 :-) A modified getty and login presents a > > "normal" banner and login: prompt and then waits for input. A central > > server is then contacted, and returns a reply based on local policy as > > to what to do with the user (local login, remote login, etc)... all > > very transparently. > > is this something similar to what mgetty does ? It has a > "login.config" file which can take the appropriate decision basing on > login name (not real Regular Expressions are supported, but that > shouldn't be too hard). > > Maybe your stuff is more flexible, though. My stuff wants to rely on a central server, which traditionally for Solaria was very trivial (kicked off by inetd): /* * nlrd - the Network Login Router query daemon * * (c) 1993, 1994 by sol.net Network Services and Joe Greco * All rights reserved. */ #include #include #include #define NLRTAB "/usr/local/etc/nlrtab" #define NLRDEFAULT "solaria.sol.net" int crstrip(c) char *c; { register char *ptr; if (ptr = rindex(c, '\n')) { *ptr = '\0'; } if (ptr = rindex(c, '\r')) { *ptr = '\0'; } return(0); } int main() { char userbuf[80]; char usernm[256]; char hostnm[256]; struct passwd *passent; FILE *nlrtabfp; fgets(userbuf, sizeof(userbuf), stdin); crstrip(userbuf); if (nlrtabfp = fopen(NLRTAB, "r")) { while (! feof(nlrtabfp)) { fscanf(nlrtabfp, "%s %s", usernm, hostnm); if (! feof(nlrtabfp)) { if (! strcmp(usernm, userbuf)) { printf("%s\n", hostnm); exit(0); } } } fclose(nlrtabfp); } if (! (passent = getpwnam(userbuf))) { printf("-\n"); } else { printf("%s\n", NLRDEFAULT); } exit(0); } Yo, can you say "simple code"? I knew you could :-) (The code may not compile as I hacked out some #ifdef's and Solaria- specific code - but you see the idea) Since decision making is bubbled up to this level, there is nothing preventing you from adding a if (*userbuf == 'P') { printf("+\n"); exit(0); } after the crstrip(userbuf)... or any of many other possible changes. The "nlrtab" file was meant as an exceptions/override list, but out here at MEI I wrote a script to take the automounter's "auto.home" file and parse it up such that there is an entry for each engineer pointing to that engineer's desktop workstation. Works like a champ. Since I have not looked at mgetty, I can not say for sure what it does, but there is nothing that would prevent "nlrd" from being made into a gizmo that read out of a more generalized configuration file, and took action appropriately. RADIUS is essentially a much more complex, featureful, "do it all" version of my NLR system. I prefer simplicity sometimes. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 10:26:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11624 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11593 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nike.efn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26270; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:25:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:25:38 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: jmg@nike Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: remote backup? In-Reply-To: <199611041637.QAA01660@gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > Hallo, > > is there a way to make backups from remote machines, something like > 'rtar' or do I have to nfs-mount the remote disks? take a look at rdump and rmt... ttyl.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 11:28:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA16675 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16612; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA12805; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:43:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA18941; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:25:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pppgetty In-Reply-To: <199611041647.KAA05213@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > took action appropriately. RADIUS is essentially a much more complex, > featureful, "do it all" version of my NLR system. RADIUS is also the standard authentication protocol for ISP's and will be a required protocol for ISP's who wish to participate in ROAMing consortiums. If you are going to build a pppgetty it would be OK to have RADIUS authentication optional but it would be bad to leave it out entirely. Linux already has two variations of a hacked login supporting RADIUS and PPP. There is also a linux version of pppd that has been hacked to replace login. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 11:50:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21367 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21122; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id UAA23464; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:47:42 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA00337; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:47:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id UAA20397; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:37:18 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199611041937.UAA20397@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:37:18 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199611041413.IAA04882@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Nov 4, 96 08:13:58 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joe Greco wrote: > This is really cool because it provides much of the core functionality > needed for ISP "terminal server" environments. Perhaps make a `termserver' port/package out of it? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 13:36:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA29969 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29962; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vKWhI-0008reC; Mon, 4 Nov 96 13:36 PST Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA05636; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:31:55 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611042131.PAA05636@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:31:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Dillon" at Nov 4, 96 11:25:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > took action appropriately. RADIUS is essentially a much more complex, > > featureful, "do it all" version of my NLR system. > > RADIUS is also the standard authentication protocol for ISP's and will be > a required protocol for ISP's who wish to participate in ROAMing > consortiums. If you are going to build a pppgetty it would be OK to > have RADIUS authentication optional but it would be bad to leave it out > entirely. > > Linux already has two variations of a hacked login supporting RADIUS > and PPP. There is also a linux version of pppd that has been hacked to > replace login. Having looked for both of these in the past (and not knowing where to look), I sorta gave up. I agree that RADIUS would be nice... :-) But I wasn't about to set out to start fresh when I could do something simple to extend what I already had. If you have any pointers, please pass them this way. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 13:59:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03103 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03085; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA05686; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:59:04 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611042159.PAA05686@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: pppgetty To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:59:04 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611041937.UAA20397@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 4, 96 08:37:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Joe Greco wrote: > > > This is really cool because it provides much of the core functionality > > needed for ISP "terminal server" environments. > > Perhaps make a `termserver' port/package out of it? That was why I asked for an enterprising ISP with a C hacker with a few CPU cycles to spare... :-) Someone also just brought up the Linux RADIUS thing again and maybe there is some merit in that. That would be ultimately cool... ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 14:06:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04012 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03980; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA15419; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:21:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20262; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:02:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pppgetty In-Reply-To: <199611042131.PAA05636@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > RADIUS is also the standard authentication protocol for ISP's and will be > > a required protocol for ISP's who wish to participate in ROAMing > > consortiums. If you are going to build a pppgetty it would be OK to > > have RADIUS authentication optional but it would be bad to leave it out > > entirely. > > > > Linux already has two variations of a hacked login supporting RADIUS > > and PPP. There is also a linux version of pppd that has been hacked to > > replace login. > If you have any pointers, please pass them this way. You could try a web search for radlogin but the best would be to inquire on linuxisp@lightning.com or server-linux@netspace.org Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 14:50:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA08918 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:50:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08893 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (neal@localhost) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA05031; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:44:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:44:51 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Rigney To: Michael Dillon cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pppgetty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > took action appropriately. RADIUS is essentially a much more complex, > > featureful, "do it all" version of my NLR system. > > RADIUS is also the standard authentication protocol for ISP's and will be > a required protocol for ISP's who wish to participate in ROAMing > consortiums. If you are going to build a pppgetty it would be OK to > have RADIUS authentication optional but it would be bad to leave it out > entirely. > > Linux already has two variations of a hacked login supporting RADIUS > and PPP. There is also a linux version of pppd that has been hacked to > replace login. > > Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting > Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com > > Does anybody by anychance have this ported to FreeBSD 210 or 215? I've got the text login part working, but I'd like to up pppd to 2.3(for the idle timeout). The patches in the Linux package are for 2.2.0f. -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 4 18:01:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA20914 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20909 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.net.hk by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vKaon-0008rkC; Mon, 4 Nov 96 18:00 PST Received: (from bmf@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA16790; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:45:39 +0800 (HKT) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:45:38 +0800 (HKT) From: Bo Fussing To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: remote backup? In-Reply-To: <199611041637.QAA01660@gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Have a look at amanda which is in the ports collection af ftp.freebsd.org Regards, Bo Fussing, On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:49:43 +0000 > From: Richard Gresek > To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org > Subject: remote backup? > > Hallo, > > is there a way to make backups from remote machines, something like > 'rtar' or do I have to nfs-mount the remote disks? > > Thanks in advance > > Richard > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer > : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald > : 60596 Frankfurt > : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de > : Fax : +49 69 610238 > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > Gateway Internet - Hong Kong Tel : +852 2963 7354 MIME & PGP Mailing OK Fax : +852 2963 7353 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 00:10:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15024 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15019 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA11952; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:11:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:11:27 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611050752.XAA15011@MindBender.serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > On the topic of hard disks, what are the minimum requirements to > >run a FreeBSD machine as a news server with a full news feed in terms of > >CPU, memory, HD Storage and does it have to be on several HD instead of > >multiple large capacity drives such as 9 gig drives? > > You'd serve yourself well to peruse http://www.freebsd.org/ and look > for the newsgroup archives. Joe Greco, and others, have posted much > invaluable information about running large news servers. My guess is > that you'd want to start with the isp list, then maybe hackers and/or > stable. Look specifically for posts from Joe Greco, as he has been > the most vocal on this topic, lately. I'll take a look at the newsgroup archives first and see since everyone has been giving me different answers of what the minimum is. > To get you started, he recommends many smaller drives, probably 2GB > each, striped with ccd, across multiple SCSI controllers, if possible. > NCR/Symbios 53c8xx cards or Adaptec 2940/3940 cards would work best > (until the BusLogic driver gets tagged-command-queuing, at which time > it theoretically should be as good as the other two). Hmmm, would 4 GB drives work as well in this area and do I need to get 7200rpm drives or would 5400rpm do well? The machine will already have a Seagate Elite 9 ST410800W 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 HD with the Adaptec 2940UW controller to start with. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 00:18:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15632 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15624 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id AAA14746; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA15590; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:17:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611050817.AAA15590@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 05 Nov 96 00:11:27 -0800. Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 00:17:54 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > On the topic of hard disks, what are the minimum requirements to >> >run a FreeBSD machine as a news server with a full news feed in terms of [...] >> You'd serve yourself well to peruse http://www.freebsd.org/ and look >> for the newsgroup archives. Joe Greco, and others, have posted much [...] > I'll take a look at the newsgroup archives first and see since >everyone has been giving me different answers of what the minimum is. The minimum is a 500MB hard drive and a FreeBSD installation. But that won't do you much good. :-) News is an ever consuming beast. You will never have "enough" disk space. (This is assuming a full feed.) It puts a good load on the CPU, I/O subsystem, and memory, as well (assuming you have clients reading news, and not just other server feeds). >> To get you started, he recommends many smaller drives, probably 2GB >> each, striped with ccd, across multiple SCSI controllers, if possible. >> NCR/Symbios 53c8xx cards or Adaptec 2940/3940 cards would work best >> (until the BusLogic driver gets tagged-command-queuing, at which time >> it theoretically should be as good as the other two). > Hmmm, would 4 GB drives work as well in this area and do I need to >get 7200rpm drives or would 5400rpm do well? The machine will already >have a Seagate Elite 9 ST410800W 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 HD with the >Adaptec 2940UW controller to start with. It will work. But the point is that you'll get much more performance out of 4-5 2GB striped drives than you will out of one 9GB drive. 4GB drives will also work, of course, but once again, you'll get more performance out of four 2GB drives than you will out of two 4GB drives. The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the performanc is at least "good". Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need 7200RPM drives. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 01:31:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA21424 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA21416 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA16272; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:31:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 01:31:04 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611050817.AAA15590@MindBender.serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > I'll take a look at the newsgroup archives first and see since > >everyone has been giving me different answers of what the minimum is. > > The minimum is a 500MB hard drive and a FreeBSD installation. But > that won't do you much good. :-) Don't we wish it was that size :-) My -current already takes up over a gig :-) > News is an ever consuming beast. You will never have "enough" disk > space. (This is assuming a full feed.) It puts a good load on the > CPU, I/O subsystem, and memory, as well (assuming you have clients > reading news, and not just other server feeds). Actually, we'll just have clients reading news. > >> To get you started, he recommends many smaller drives, probably 2GB > >> each, striped with ccd, across multiple SCSI controllers, if possible. > >> NCR/Symbios 53c8xx cards or Adaptec 2940/3940 cards would work best > >> (until the BusLogic driver gets tagged-command-queuing, at which time > >> it theoretically should be as good as the other two). > > > Hmmm, would 4 GB drives work as well in this area and do I need to > >get 7200rpm drives or would 5400rpm do well? The machine will already > >have a Seagate Elite 9 ST410800W 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 HD with the > >Adaptec 2940UW controller to start with. > > It will work. But the point is that you'll get much more performance > out of 4-5 2GB striped drives than you will out of one 9GB drive. 4GB > drives will also work, of course, but once again, you'll get more > performance out of four 2GB drives than you will out of two 4GB > drives. Oh okay but how will you do the mounting of the drives since it's hard to figure out where the mount points should be :-) > The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current > "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the > performanc is at least "good". Oh okay, I kept thinking the bigger drives were supposed to be cheaper. > Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra > drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save > by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference > in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need > 7200RPM drives. I guess that would explain it why the Seagate Elite's were so popular :-) Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 02:05:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA23217 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gandalf.asiapac.net (mail.tm.net.my [202.188.0.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA23211 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from klj-7-34.tm.net.my (klj-7-169.tm.net.my [202.188.7.169]) by gandalf.asiapac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12687 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:05:16 +0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:05:16 +0800 Message-Id: <199611051005.SAA12687@gandalf.asiapac.net> X-Sender: sckhoo@mail.tm.net.my X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@FreeBSD.org From: Swee-Chuan Khoo Subject: DNS not found Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi, I have 2 DNS running on FreeBSD 2.1.0 ( I know, i'll upgrade soon ) and having about 1500 dialup subscriber. named came with 2.1.0 A lot of the time, the dialup user will see "DNS not found" when they open netscape. I've check the DNS ( both of them ) using vmstat and top, both check out ok, >97% CPU idle and very small disk access. My ISP backbone is running of OSPF and dialup is using Ascend 4000. Please help. I am getting thousand of complain email. :( Thanx. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Khoo Swee Chuan - TMnet system administrator | | http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/ sckhoo@asiapac.net | | tel:603-7337757 fax:603-7345577 #include | | ****** To join MYISOC mailing list, try majordomo@tm.net.my ******** | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ "if you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains - however improbable - must be the truth." From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 03:02:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA25150 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA25143 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:02:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA17212; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:02:26 -0800 (PST) To: Swee-Chuan Khoo cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DNS not found In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Nov 1996 18:05:16 +0800." <199611051005.SAA12687@gandalf.asiapac.net> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 03:02:25 -0800 Message-ID: <17207.847191745@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My ISP backbone is running of OSPF and dialup is using Ascend 4000. Maybe you ought to be running gated. It's an easily loadable package (see your release notes) and can be configured to do a lot more than routed can. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 04:39:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA29785 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29761; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id CAA15591; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:39:27 -1000 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:39:27 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199611051239.CAA15591@pegasus.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: nettty? Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone gotten nettty to work with FreeBSD? bast.livingston.com:/pub/le/contrib/nettty.c It's a tool for connecting to a Portmaster port via a pseudo tty. Richard From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 06:59:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA05604 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:59:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA05599 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vKmyk-0008riC; Tue, 5 Nov 96 06:59 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: DNS not found To: sckhoo@tm.net.my (Swee-Chuan Khoo) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:59:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611051005.SAA12687@gandalf.asiapac.net> from "Swee-Chuan Khoo" at Nov 5, 96 06:05:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A lot of the time, the dialup user will see "DNS not found" when they > open netscape. Kill and restart named when you make configuration changes, rather than just using SIGHUP. That's pretty much eliminated complaints here. -- Alan Batie ______ We're Starfleet officers: batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Weird is part of the job. +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Captain Janeway DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 09:48:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA12714 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12374 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA06990; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:40:13 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611051740.LAA06990@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:40:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611050817.AAA15590@MindBender.serv.net> from "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" at Nov 5, 96 00:17:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current > "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the > performanc is at least "good". For price, 2GB is your ticket. For performance, 1GB is (I have recently paid the "premium" to get a dozen and a half ST-31055N's... ouch... it hurts, but you get almost double the throughput for having spent about 30% more than the 2GB drives would have cost). > Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra > drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save > by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference > in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need > 7200RPM drives. Yes. I will put a two-disk stripe of a pair of ST-31055N Hawk-2 drives (9ms, 5400RPM, etc) up against a single ST-32550N Barracuda (8ms, 7200RPM) any day and beat it by a fair margin. And relatively speaking, with the 32550N's hovering around $650 and 31055N's around $320, tell me what makes more sense to do :-) But I will grant that the 32155N's, in the low 5's are attractive too. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 13:22:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25614 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25609 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA26821; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:20:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mark@quickweb.com, terry@lambert.org, imp@village.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley , "[Mario1-]" , JbHunt Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611051729.LAA06955@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > On the topic of hard disks, what are the minimum requirements to > > run a FreeBSD machine as a news server with a full news feed in terms of > > CPU, memory, HD Storage and does it have to be on several HD instead of > > multiple large capacity drives such as 9 gig drives? > > Vince, > > IMHO it depends on what you are going to do with the machine. Are you going > to have lots of readers? Lots of inbound and/or outbound feeds? (Remember > that many sites these days feed via "innfeed", and this counts as multiple > feeds)... All the users will be using nntp from within GAIANET.NET. We will have a newsfeed from Concentric Network but will probably have some feeds to others. > It also depends on how long you want to retain news, how many groups are in > your active file (how "full" the feed is), whether or not you want to > support other things on the system, etc. Hmmm, maybe 8-10 days to retain the news and probably want everything in terms of a full feed. > If you are going to have one user reading news and have a single inbound > feed, sorted, held for half a week, and nothing else, you might be able to > do it on a fairly skimpy system. > > My idea of fairly skimpy would be 486DX/133, 64MB RAM (maybe 48MB), a fast > disk for root/var/newslib, and a big disk for spool. You might be able to > get away with less memory by using C-News. We'll have this as the minimum of a sysem. Dual PentiumPro-200Mhz with 128MB of ram and a Seagate Elite 9 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 drive to start with. > My standard cuff calculation formula for RAM is: > > 1MB * active readers + 2MB * number of feeds + 8MB for system + 2 * > sizeof(history.pag) > > I consider this to be a minimum. News will make very good use of as > much memory as you can give it. One of my clients considered it to be > an excessive maximum and learned a very expensive lesson when their > news service sucked. Hmmm, when you mean by active readers, you are talking about the amount of nntp clients accessing the newsserver at once? > For a CPU, I have not found a significant need to go beyond a P133. > 'newspump.sol.net' is a P133, and is a dedicated feeds machine. It > ranks #25 in the Freenix ratings this month. A large client has 100-150 > nnrp sessions reading news on their P133 boxes, with CPU to spare. This > game isn't really about CPU, it is more about memory, caching, and I/O. > Besides, CPU is cheap. Hmmm, okay.... Do you or anyone know how well a FreeBSD machine would compare to a SUN? I was saying that the FreeBSD machine can easily do better than the SUN's since I can see how well wcarchive.cdrom.com is doing with the high loads. > Chipset is ultimately important. You WILL not be successful if you buy > a cruddy motherboard/chipset. Buy Triton-II. I recommend the ASUS > P/I-P55T2P4, or P/E-P55T2P4D (see http://www.asus.com.tw). I recommend > buying hardware from Rod Grimes, I have never been disappointed by his > services and support. . Yep, I know. I got a P55TP4XE from Rod and it's still working in one piece today with no problems whatsoever. Too bad mines is the original Triton though. Rod surely knows the part he sells and can give you every bit of info you want to know. > Do not compromise on your I/O system. News is extremely taxing on a > machine's disks. Buy multiple SCSI busses. It is much better to buy > three $70 ASUS SC-200 NCR-810 controllers than one $220 AHA-2940 SCSI > controller (but if you want to spend $660 on three AHA-2940's, that > is not a bad solution either). Buy lots of disks. Stripe them with CCD. > The reader machines noted above have 12 disks each: What about for Wide SCSI or Ultra/UltraWide SCSI drives? Which controllers would be good? > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- > | sd0 root | | sd10 var | | sd20 newslib | > | 2G ST32550N | | 2G ST32550N | | CCD 1G 31055N| > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > | sd1 newslib | | sd11 nov | | sd21 nov | > | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > | sd2 news | | sd12 news | | sd22 alt | > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > | sd3 alt | | sd13 binaries| | sd23 binaries| > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 4G 15150N| | CCD 4G 15150N| > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- I can see that the 2 GIG are all Barracuda's from Seagate but what kind of drives are the others? > Notice I stripe across controllers... also note the rants I have posted > in the past on CCD stripe sizes. Use large ones except for the newslib > disk. Hmmm, how do I do the CCD stripe? I heard you can make multiple drives into one partition under FreeBSD. > With 150 readers, this is DAMN BUSY... > > Rule #1) People always try to cheap out on news servers. > > Rule #2) They fail. > > Remember those rules and you have a chance of designing a good news > service... Yep, that's true. Since it's better to spend more to get quality components than getting it cheap since by the time, you find out, you need to replace all the inferior components. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 13:28:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25989 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:28:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25981 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA27246; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:27:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:27:07 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , isp@FreeBSD.org, Chad Shackley , JbHunt , "[Mario1-]" Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611051740.LAA06990@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current > > "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the > > performanc is at least "good". > > For price, 2GB is your ticket. For performance, 1GB is (I have recently > paid the "premium" to get a dozen and a half ST-31055N's... ouch... it > hurts, but you get almost double the throughput for having spent about > 30% more than the 2GB drives would have cost). Hmmm, speaking about 2 GIG drives, the new Barracuda's are cheaper than the ST32550N, I wonder if any performance is sacraficed since it has half the cache but come in both UltraSCSI and UltraSCSI Wide versions. Never thought about it but 5 2 GIG drives are cheaper than a single 9 gig drive, I always thought the bigger the drive, the less the cost per megabyte. > > Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra > > drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save > > by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference > > in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need > > 7200RPM drives. > > Yes. I will put a two-disk stripe of a pair of ST-31055N Hawk-2 drives > (9ms, 5400RPM, etc) up against a single ST-32550N Barracuda (8ms, 7200RPM) > any day and beat it by a fair margin. And relatively speaking, with the > 32550N's hovering around $650 and 31055N's around $320, tell me what > makes more sense to do :-) > > But I will grant that the 32155N's, in the low 5's are attractive too. Hmmm, I know I just asked this. but how does striping work and is it only for SCSI drives? Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 15:21:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA02354 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02346 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA07444; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:18:40 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611052318.RAA07444@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:18:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 5, 96 01:27:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current > > > "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the > > > performanc is at least "good". > > > > For price, 2GB is your ticket. For performance, 1GB is (I have recently > > paid the "premium" to get a dozen and a half ST-31055N's... ouch... it > > hurts, but you get almost double the throughput for having spent about > > 30% more than the 2GB drives would have cost). > > Hmmm, speaking about 2 GIG drives, the new Barracuda's are cheaper > than the ST32550N, I wonder if any performance is sacraficed since it has > half the cache but come in both UltraSCSI and UltraSCSI Wide versions. > Never thought about it but 5 2 GIG drives are cheaper than a single 9 gig > drive, I always thought the bigger the drive, the less the cost per > megabyte. Think about this: Two drives each with half the cache of a larger drive have the same amount of cache, total, as the larger drive. Two drives have twice the heads of a larger drive. Two drives do not cost too much more than the larger drive. Let us say it costs 30% more. If you buy the larger drive and find it is too slow, you buy the two smaller drives and then you have spent 130% more. (But you have an additional drive.) > > > Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra > > > drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save > > > by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference > > > in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need > > > 7200RPM drives. > > > > Yes. I will put a two-disk stripe of a pair of ST-31055N Hawk-2 drives > > (9ms, 5400RPM, etc) up against a single ST-32550N Barracuda (8ms, 7200RPM) > > any day and beat it by a fair margin. And relatively speaking, with the > > 32550N's hovering around $650 and 31055N's around $320, tell me what > > makes more sense to do :-) > > > > But I will grant that the 32155N's, in the low 5's are attractive too. > > Hmmm, I know I just asked this. but how does striping work and is > it only for SCSI drives? Striping ("CCD") works on general disk devices. I have never tried it on non-SCSI drives or with non-PCI controllers. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 16:35:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05502 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05495 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id SAA07510; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:46 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611060030.SAA07510@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:45 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mark@quickweb.com, terry@lambert.org, imp@village.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com, johnnyu@accessus.net In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 5, 96 01:20:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Vince, > > > > IMHO it depends on what you are going to do with the machine. Are you going > > to have lots of readers? Lots of inbound and/or outbound feeds? (Remember > > that many sites these days feed via "innfeed", and this counts as multiple > > feeds)... > > All the users will be using nntp from within GAIANET.NET. We will > have a newsfeed from Concentric Network but will probably have some feeds > to others. How MANY users? If you have no idea, project 1/10 of your number of modems. That is an almost useless guess, but it is at least probably going to be the right order of magnitude. > > If you are going to have one user reading news and have a single inbound > > feed, sorted, held for half a week, and nothing else, you might be able to > > do it on a fairly skimpy system. > > > > My idea of fairly skimpy would be 486DX/133, 64MB RAM (maybe 48MB), a fast > > disk for root/var/newslib, and a big disk for spool. You might be able to > > get away with less memory by using C-News. > > We'll have this as the minimum of a sysem. Dual PentiumPro-200Mhz > with 128MB of ram and a Seagate Elite 9 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 drive to > start with. Dump the Dual, dump the Pentium Pro. You are not doing raytracing, you are providing news service. For this kind of application you need to be able to move data quickly. Get a P133 on a good Triton-II board. Use the money you save to buy more disks. With PP200's going for over $1000 each, you should be able to get half a dozen 1G disks with the savings. (You do NOT want to use the Elite on a machine with multiple news feeds. You do NOT want to use the Elite on an ISP class news server. It will melt. No way in hell can it handle the number of transactions per second required!) Get more RAM. Then get more CPU. In that order! :-) > > My standard cuff calculation formula for RAM is: > > > > 1MB * active readers + 2MB * number of feeds + 8MB for system + 2 * > > sizeof(history.pag) > > > > I consider this to be a minimum. News will make very good use of as > > much memory as you can give it. One of my clients considered it to be > > an excessive maximum and learned a very expensive lesson when their > > news service sucked. > > Hmmm, when you mean by active readers, you are talking about the > amount of nntp clients accessing the newsserver at once? Yes. "active" refers to any client that has not been sleeping for 15 minutes... you get some of those too and it is OK to let them swap out. > > For a CPU, I have not found a significant need to go beyond a P133. > > 'newspump.sol.net' is a P133, and is a dedicated feeds machine. It > > ranks #25 in the Freenix ratings this month. A large client has 100-150 > > nnrp sessions reading news on their P133 boxes, with CPU to spare. This > > game isn't really about CPU, it is more about memory, caching, and I/O. > > Besides, CPU is cheap. > > Hmmm, okay.... Do you or anyone know how well a FreeBSD machine > would compare to a SUN? I was saying that the FreeBSD machine can easily > do better than the SUN's since I can see how well wcarchive.cdrom.com is > doing with the high loads. You get more bang for your buck with the PC. CPU is 1/5 the price, memory is 1/2 the price, I/O controllers are 1/10 the price. Take the money you save and buy disks. I run news servers under Solaris. Spool.mu.edu is a doggy SPARCstation 10/30 that is roughly equivalent to a P60. It is a very busy machine.. it is a good machine... but intuitively I believe that a PC equivalent would be faster, and absolutely cheaper. > > Chipset is ultimately important. You WILL not be successful if you buy > > a cruddy motherboard/chipset. Buy Triton-II. I recommend the ASUS > > P/I-P55T2P4, or P/E-P55T2P4D (see http://www.asus.com.tw). I recommend > > buying hardware from Rod Grimes, I have never been disappointed by his > > services and support. . > > Yep, I know. I got a P55TP4XE from Rod and it's still working in > one piece today with no problems whatsoever. Too bad mines is the > original Triton though. Rod surely knows the part he sells and can give > you every bit of info you want to know. I am using several as well. Work great, no parity, only 128MB RAM supported, but really one of the best boards available at the time. > > Do not compromise on your I/O system. News is extremely taxing on a > > machine's disks. Buy multiple SCSI busses. It is much better to buy > > three $70 ASUS SC-200 NCR-810 controllers than one $220 AHA-2940 SCSI > > controller (but if you want to spend $660 on three AHA-2940's, that > > is not a bad solution either). Buy lots of disks. Stripe them with CCD. > > The reader machines noted above have 12 disks each: > > What about for Wide SCSI or Ultra/UltraWide SCSI drives? Which > controllers would be good? To hell with Wide SCSI. If you are transferring 50 MB of data from a large file, you will be well served by a pair of CCD'd drives with Wide SCSI and a small interleave. News transfers typically are 4K and are rarely larger than 64K. Your Wide SCSI bus will transfer 4K of data twice as fast, but "twice as fast" is really irrelevant since your process is already blocked waiting for the data, and whether it waits 20 milliseconds of seek time plus some real teeny number 'N' for the Wide SCSI transfer, or 20 milliseconds plus 2 * N, is really pretty irrelevant because N is so small compared to the 20 milliseconds you just waited for your data. You are better served by taking the money saved and buying more drives. Then you are more likely to have a lower number than "20 milliseconds" because latency is lower due to contention being lower. (The 20 number I pulled out of the air, the argument is valid but the number may not be). Exception: Wide SCSI may be useful for: alt.binaries (large articles) newslib (active file, history writes) but I do not think it is worth the effort myself. None of my news servers have Wide SCSI and one of them is in the Top 25. > > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- > > | sd0 root | | sd10 var | | sd20 newslib | > > | 2G ST32550N | | 2G ST32550N | | CCD 1G 31055N| > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > | sd1 newslib | | sd11 nov | | sd21 nov | > > | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > | sd2 news | | sd12 news | | sd22 alt | > > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > | sd3 alt | | sd13 binaries| | sd23 binaries| > > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 4G 15150N| | CCD 4G 15150N| > > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- > > I can see that the 2 GIG are all Barracuda's from Seagate but what > kind of drives are the others? 31055N is Hawk-2 1GB "ST-31055N" "Ultra-SCSI", goes for about $330 I believe... There is a poor cousin "31051N" version which is basically not Ultra-SCSI but a nearly identical drive. 15150N is Barracuda 4GB. There is now a low profile variant out but I have not seen them. > > Notice I stripe across controllers... also note the rants I have posted > > in the past on CCD stripe sizes. Use large ones except for the newslib > > disk. > > Hmmm, how do I do the CCD stripe? I heard you can make multiple > drives into one partition under FreeBSD. man ccd :-) I will provide examples if you get lost but right now I am busy helping one of my clients customers with a security problem... so I will say "RTFM" and search the mailing list. > > With 150 readers, this is DAMN BUSY... > > > > Rule #1) People always try to cheap out on news servers. > > > > Rule #2) They fail. > > > > Remember those rules and you have a chance of designing a good news > > service... > > Yep, that's true. Since it's better to spend more to get quality > components than getting it cheap since by the time, you find out, you need > to replace all the inferior components. Precisely... 20% more up front saves you 120% down the road. That does not make it any easier to spend the 20%, untul you start talking with someone who spent the 120% and spent several dozen engineering hours (wasted) to find out that their hardware is crud. That is expensive in other ways. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 16:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06066 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06061 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12040; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:49:00 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:48:59 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611052318.RAA07444@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > > The reason I keep saying 2GB is because that seems to be the current > > > > "sweet spot" where the price per gigabyte is lowest, and the > > > > performanc is at least "good". > > > > > > For price, 2GB is your ticket. For performance, 1GB is (I have recently > > > paid the "premium" to get a dozen and a half ST-31055N's... ouch... it > > > hurts, but you get almost double the throughput for having spent about > > > 30% more than the 2GB drives would have cost). > > > > Hmmm, speaking about 2 GIG drives, the new Barracuda's are cheaper > > than the ST32550N, I wonder if any performance is sacraficed since it has > > half the cache but come in both UltraSCSI and UltraSCSI Wide versions. > > Never thought about it but 5 2 GIG drives are cheaper than a single 9 gig > > drive, I always thought the bigger the drive, the less the cost per > > megabyte. > > Think about this: > > Two drives each with half the cache of a larger drive have the same amount > of cache, total, as the larger drive. > > Two drives have twice the heads of a larger drive. > > Two drives do not cost too much more than the larger drive. Let us say it > costs 30% more. > > If you buy the larger drive and find it is too slow, you buy the two > smaller drives and then you have spent 130% more. (But you have an > additional drive.) Actually, the smaller drives are cheaper now. But I guess it depends on how much room you have left for your computer's pci slots for controller cards as well. > > > > Of course 7200RPM drives are faster. But, if you can buy an extra > > > > drive or two, and put that in the stripe set, with the money you save > > > > by going 5400RPM, that extra drive might just make up the difference > > > > in speed. So, to say it the other way around: no, you don't need > > > > 7200RPM drives. > > > > > > Yes. I will put a two-disk stripe of a pair of ST-31055N Hawk-2 drives > > > (9ms, 5400RPM, etc) up against a single ST-32550N Barracuda (8ms, 7200RPM) > > > any day and beat it by a fair margin. And relatively speaking, with the > > > 32550N's hovering around $650 and 31055N's around $320, tell me what > > > makes more sense to do :-) > > > > > > But I will grant that the 32155N's, in the low 5's are attractive too. > > > > Hmmm, I know I just asked this. but how does striping work and is > > it only for SCSI drives? > > Striping ("CCD") works on general disk devices. I have never tried it on > non-SCSI drives or with non-PCI controllers. Hmmm, where can I get more info on how to do CCD under FreeBSD? Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 16:55:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA06210 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06205 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id SAA07596; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:53:04 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611060053.SAA07596@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:53:03 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 5, 96 04:48:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Two drives each with half the cache of a larger drive have the same amount > > of cache, total, as the larger drive. > > > > Two drives have twice the heads of a larger drive. > > > > Two drives do not cost too much more than the larger drive. Let us say it > > costs 30% more. > > > > If you buy the larger drive and find it is too slow, you buy the two > > smaller drives and then you have spent 130% more. (But you have an > > additional drive.) > > Actually, the smaller drives are cheaper now. But I guess it > depends on how much room you have left for your computer's pci slots for > controller cards as well. Then you buy AHA-3940 "dual channel" SCSI controllers. Or you beg the SCSI gods to support the AHA-3985 "triple channel" SCSI controller, which probably wouldn't be too hard from what folks have said in the past. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 17:09:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06761 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06753 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA13604; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:07:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:07:21 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, mark@quickweb.com, terry@lambert.org, imp@village.org, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com, johnnyu@accessus.net Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611060030.SAA07510@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Vince, > > > > > > IMHO it depends on what you are going to do with the machine. Are you going > > > to have lots of readers? Lots of inbound and/or outbound feeds? (Remember > > > that many sites these days feed via "innfeed", and this counts as multiple > > > feeds)... > > > > All the users will be using nntp from within GAIANET.NET. We will > > have a newsfeed from Concentric Network but will probably have some feeds > > to others. > > How MANY users? If you have no idea, project 1/10 of your number of > modems. That is an almost useless guess, but it is at least probably > going to be the right order of magnitude. Well, don't know the exact amount of users since some come in by telnet and others come in by the 4 dialup modems... > > > If you are going to have one user reading news and have a single inbound > > > feed, sorted, held for half a week, and nothing else, you might be able to > > > do it on a fairly skimpy system. > > > > > > My idea of fairly skimpy would be 486DX/133, 64MB RAM (maybe 48MB), a fast > > > disk for root/var/newslib, and a big disk for spool. You might be able to > > > get away with less memory by using C-News. > > > > We'll have this as the minimum of a sysem. Dual PentiumPro-200Mhz > > with 128MB of ram and a Seagate Elite 9 9.1 gig Fast Wide SCSI-2 drive to > > start with. > > Dump the Dual, dump the Pentium Pro. You are not doing raytracing, you > are providing news service. For this kind of application you need to be > able to move data quickly. So the Dual and Pentium Pro won't do much good? > Get a P133 on a good Triton-II board. Okay... > Use the money you save to buy more disks. With PP200's going for over $1000 > each, you should be able to get half a dozen 1G disks with the savings. Yep, good point. > (You do NOT want to use the Elite on a machine with multiple news feeds. > You do NOT want to use the Elite on an ISP class news server. It will > melt. No way in hell can it handle the number of transactions per second > required!) We already have the Elite so that can't be replaced :-) > Get more RAM. How much RAM do we need exactly? > Then get more CPU. In that order! :-) Okay :-) > > > My standard cuff calculation formula for RAM is: > > > > > > 1MB * active readers + 2MB * number of feeds + 8MB for system + 2 * > > > sizeof(history.pag) > > > > > > I consider this to be a minimum. News will make very good use of as > > > much memory as you can give it. One of my clients considered it to be > > > an excessive maximum and learned a very expensive lesson when their > > > news service sucked. > > > > Hmmm, when you mean by active readers, you are talking about the > > amount of nntp clients accessing the newsserver at once? > > Yes. "active" refers to any client that has not been sleeping for 15 > minutes... you get some of those too and it is OK to let them swap out. Oh I see. > > > For a CPU, I have not found a significant need to go beyond a P133. > > > 'newspump.sol.net' is a P133, and is a dedicated feeds machine. It > > > ranks #25 in the Freenix ratings this month. A large client has 100-150 > > > nnrp sessions reading news on their P133 boxes, with CPU to spare. This > > > game isn't really about CPU, it is more about memory, caching, and I/O. > > > Besides, CPU is cheap. > > > > Hmmm, okay.... Do you or anyone know how well a FreeBSD machine > > would compare to a SUN? I was saying that the FreeBSD machine can easily > > do better than the SUN's since I can see how well wcarchive.cdrom.com is > > doing with the high loads. > > You get more bang for your buck with the PC. CPU is 1/5 the price, memory > is 1/2 the price, I/O controllers are 1/10 the price. Take the money you > save and buy disks. Good point. > I run news servers under Solaris. Spool.mu.edu is a doggy SPARCstation > 10/30 that is roughly equivalent to a P60. It is a very busy machine.. > it is a good machine... but intuitively I believe that a PC equivalent > would be faster, and absolutely cheaper. Yep, it sure seems like it from the loads a PC can handle. > > > Chipset is ultimately important. You WILL not be successful if you buy > > > a cruddy motherboard/chipset. Buy Triton-II. I recommend the ASUS > > > P/I-P55T2P4, or P/E-P55T2P4D (see http://www.asus.com.tw). I recommend > > > buying hardware from Rod Grimes, I have never been disappointed by his > > > services and support. . > > > > Yep, I know. I got a P55TP4XE from Rod and it's still working in > > one piece today with no problems whatsoever. Too bad mines is the > > original Triton though. Rod surely knows the part he sells and can give > > you every bit of info you want to know. > > I am using several as well. Work great, no parity, only 128MB RAM > supported, but really one of the best boards available at the time. Yep, it sure is. I wonder if the Triton II is any faster. > > > Do not compromise on your I/O system. News is extremely taxing on a > > > machine's disks. Buy multiple SCSI busses. It is much better to buy > > > three $70 ASUS SC-200 NCR-810 controllers than one $220 AHA-2940 SCSI > > > controller (but if you want to spend $660 on three AHA-2940's, that > > > is not a bad solution either). Buy lots of disks. Stripe them with CCD. > > > The reader machines noted above have 12 disks each: > > > > What about for Wide SCSI or Ultra/UltraWide SCSI drives? Which > > controllers would be good? > > To hell with Wide SCSI. > > If you are transferring 50 MB of data from a large file, you will be well > served by a pair of CCD'd drives with Wide SCSI and a small interleave. > > News transfers typically are 4K and are rarely larger than 64K. Your Wide > SCSI bus will transfer 4K of data twice as fast, but "twice as fast" is > really irrelevant since your process is already blocked waiting for the > data, and whether it waits 20 milliseconds of seek time plus some real > teeny number 'N' for the Wide SCSI transfer, or 20 milliseconds plus > 2 * N, is really pretty irrelevant because N is so small compared to > the 20 milliseconds you just waited for your data. > > You are better served by taking the money saved and buying more drives. > Then you are more likely to have a lower number than "20 milliseconds" > because latency is lower due to contention being lower. (The 20 number > I pulled out of the air, the argument is valid but the number may not be). What about UltraSCSI? > Exception: Wide SCSI may be useful for: > > alt.binaries (large articles) > newslib (active file, history writes) > > but I do not think it is worth the effort myself. None of my news > servers have Wide SCSI and one of them is in the Top 25. Interesting :-) > > > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- > > > | sd0 root | | sd10 var | | sd20 newslib | > > > | 2G ST32550N | | 2G ST32550N | | CCD 1G 31055N| > > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > > | sd1 newslib | | sd11 nov | | sd21 nov | > > > | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| | CCD 1G 31055N| > > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > > | sd2 news | | sd12 news | | sd22 alt | > > > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 2G 32550N| > > > |--------------| |--------------| |--------------| > > > | sd3 alt | | sd13 binaries| | sd23 binaries| > > > | CCD 2G 32550N| | CCD 4G 15150N| | CCD 4G 15150N| > > > ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- > > > > I can see that the 2 GIG are all Barracuda's from Seagate but what > > kind of drives are the others? > > 31055N is Hawk-2 1GB "ST-31055N" "Ultra-SCSI", goes for about $330 I > believe... There is a poor cousin "31051N" version which is basically > not Ultra-SCSI but a nearly identical drive. > > 15150N is Barracuda 4GB. There is now a low profile variant out but I > have not seen them. Okay, are these drives pretty reliable? > > > Notice I stripe across controllers... also note the rants I have posted > > > in the past on CCD stripe sizes. Use large ones except for the newslib > > > disk. > > > > Hmmm, how do I do the CCD stripe? I heard you can make multiple > > drives into one partition under FreeBSD. > > man ccd :-) I will provide examples if you get lost but right now I am > busy helping one of my clients customers with a security problem... > so I will say "RTFM" and search the mailing list. Okay, will look at it. > > > With 150 readers, this is DAMN BUSY... > > > > > > Rule #1) People always try to cheap out on news servers. > > > > > > Rule #2) They fail. > > > > > > Remember those rules and you have a chance of designing a good news > > > service... > > > > Yep, that's true. Since it's better to spend more to get quality > > components than getting it cheap since by the time, you find out, you need > > to replace all the inferior components. > > Precisely.... 20% more up front saves you 120% down the road. > > That does not make it any easier to spend the 20%, untul you start > talking with someone who spent the 120% and spent several dozen > engineering hours (wasted) to find out that their hardware is crud. > That is expensive in other ways. Yep, better be safe than sorry! :-) Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 17:15:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06990 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06985 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:15:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14055; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:14:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611060053.SAA07596@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > Actually, the smaller drives are cheaper now. But I guess it > > depends on how much room you have left for your computer's pci slots for > > controller cards as well. > > Then you buy AHA-3940 "dual channel" SCSI controllers. Or you beg the SCSI > gods to support the AHA-3985 "triple channel" SCSI controller, which > probably wouldn't be too hard from what folks have said in the past. Hmmm, is there even a triple channel SCSI controller available? Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 17:27:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07445 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.net.hk (john@router.gateway.net.hk [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07429 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA12599; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:16:38 +0800 (HKT) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:16:37 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Bo Fussing cc: Richard Gresek , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: remote backup? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Bo Fussing wrote: > Have a look at amanda which is in the ports collection af ftp.freebsd.org > > Regards, > Bo Fussing, Or use an rsh script:- to backup the list of files in 'filelist' on remote1.somerset.com.ex #!/bin/sh tar cvf - `cat /root/filelist` | rsh -l richard remote1.somerset.com.ex dd of=/dev/rStp0 #!/bin/sh #to restore etc/termcap from remote1 rsh -l richard remote1.somerset.com.ex dd if=/dev/rStp0 | tar xvf - etc/termcap jbeukema > > On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:49:43 +0000 > > From: Richard Gresek > > To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org > > Subject: remote backup? > > > > Hallo, > > > > is there a way to make backups from remote machines, something like > > 'rtar' or do I have to nfs-mount the remote disks? > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Richard > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer > > : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald > > : 60596 Frankfurt > > : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de > > : Fax : +49 69 610238 > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > Gateway Internet - Hong Kong > > Tel : +852 2963 7354 MIME & PGP Mailing OK > Fax : +852 2963 7353 > > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 17:39:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07965 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07951 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id TAA07662; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:36:45 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611060136.TAA07662@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:36:45 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 5, 96 05:14:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Then you buy AHA-3940 "dual channel" SCSI controllers. Or you beg the SCSI > > gods to support the AHA-3985 "triple channel" SCSI controller, which > > probably wouldn't be too hard from what folks have said in the past. > > Hmmm, is there even a triple channel SCSI controller available? Adaptec is your Very Expensive Good Friend. http://www.adaptec.com/raid/aha3985.html Note: this is basically three 2940's and some extra logic that might allow it to do hardware parity calculations. Ignoring the RAID stuff means that it should be possible to use it as a three channel SCSI controller, occupying a single slot. Or go for a PCI board with 5 PCI slots. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 18:13:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA09081 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09074 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA07146; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:13:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:11:42 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Hmmm, where can I get more info on how to do CCD under FreeBSD? http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/ccd/ -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 21:00:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA16637 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA16628 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id VAA12826; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23025; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:59:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611060459.UAA23025@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Veggy Vinny cc: Joe Greco , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley , JbHunt , "[Mario1-]" Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 05 Nov 96 13:27:07 -0800. Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 20:59:13 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmm, I know I just asked this. but how does striping work and is >it only for SCSI drives? Type "man ccd" and "man ccdconfig". Then, consult the FAQ on http://www.freebsd.org/ and/or http://www.netbsd.org/. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 21:25:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA18657 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18648 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA27962; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:25:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611060136.TAA07662@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Then you buy AHA-3940 "dual channel" SCSI controllers. Or you beg the SCSI > > > gods to support the AHA-3985 "triple channel" SCSI controller, which > > > probably wouldn't be too hard from what folks have said in the past. > > > > Hmmm, is there even a triple channel SCSI controller available? > > Adaptec is your Very Expensive Good Friend. Yeah, you pay a premium for a Adaptec. > http://www.adaptec.com/raid/aha3985.html > > Note: this is basically three 2940's and some extra logic that might allow > it to do hardware parity calculations. Ignoring the RAID stuff means that > it should be possible to use it as a three channel SCSI controller, > occupying a single slot. > > Or go for a PCI board with 5 PCI slots. Hmmm, even with a PCI board with 5 PCI slots, you would need one for ethernet card as well as a video card so you still have only 3 left. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 21:44:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA20431 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20425 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29119; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:45:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Bradley Dunn cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Bradley Dunn wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > Hmmm, where can I get more info on how to do CCD under FreeBSD? > > http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/ccd/ Never knew it was in my neighborhood... Must be the work of Satoshi! :) Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 22:08:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA21703 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21693 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:08:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nike.efn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA25808; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:08:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:08:36 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: jmg@nike Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Hmmm, even with a PCI board with 5 PCI slots, you would need one > for ethernet card as well as a video card so you still have only 3 left. who needs a nice pci video in a server? use no video or an old isa... I've run a server without video (but a serial console) and it works beautifully... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 22:20:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA22327 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA22319 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00746; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:18:46 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:18:45 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Joe Greco , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley , JbHunt , "[Mario1-]" Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611060459.UAA23025@MindBender.serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > Hmmm, I know I just asked this. but how does striping work and is > >it only for SCSI drives? > > Type "man ccd" and "man ccdconfig". Then, consult the FAQ on > http://www.freebsd.org/ and/or http://www.netbsd.org/. Thanks, will do that. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 5 22:36:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23090 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23085 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01782; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:37:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: John-Mark Gurney cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > Hmmm, even with a PCI board with 5 PCI slots, you would need one > > for ethernet card as well as a video card so you still have only 3 left. > > who needs a nice pci video in a server? use no video or an old isa... > I've run a server without video (but a serial console) and it works > beautifully... I know what you mean but sometimes the machine may be used as more than a server like a X Workstation or something... Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 6 07:42:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26345 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA26333 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA08616; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:40:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611061540.JAA08616@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/obj size To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:40:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 5, 96 09:25:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Adaptec is your Very Expensive Good Friend. > > Yeah, you pay a premium for a Adaptec. > > > http://www.adaptec.com/raid/aha3985.html > > > > Note: this is basically three 2940's and some extra logic that might allow > > it to do hardware parity calculations. Ignoring the RAID stuff means that > > it should be possible to use it as a three channel SCSI controller, > > occupying a single slot. > > > > Or go for a PCI board with 5 PCI slots. > > Hmmm, even with a PCI board with 5 PCI slots, you would need one > for ethernet card as well as a video card so you still have only 3 left. Why in the world would you need a PCI video card? I am a VGA house myself, mainly because I have a rack of machines, one VGA monitor on the rack, and a wandering VGA cable for the infrequent times I need to get at a machine's console.... but an 8 or 16 bit ISA VGA card with 256KB is more than sufficient for a server. One of my clients is big into mono cards and mono monitors, they have the redeeming quality that you can leave them on 24/7 and not be too saddened when a monitor dies because they are so easy to come by used. You don't really need workstation speed graphics on a server class machine. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 6 13:14:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26213 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26204 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA05808; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:13:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:13:50 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net, johnnyu@accessus.net, mario1@PrimeNet.Com Subject: Re: /usr/obj size In-Reply-To: <199611061540.JAA08616@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Adaptec is your Very Expensive Good Friend. > > > > Yeah, you pay a premium for a Adaptec. > > > > > http://www.adaptec.com/raid/aha3985.html > > > > > > Note: this is basically three 2940's and some extra logic that might allow > > > it to do hardware parity calculations. Ignoring the RAID stuff means that > > > it should be possible to use it as a three channel SCSI controller, > > > occupying a single slot. > > > > > > Or go for a PCI board with 5 PCI slots. > > > > Hmmm, even with a PCI board with 5 PCI slots, you would need one > > for ethernet card as well as a video card so you still have only 3 left. > > Why in the world would you need a PCI video card? Good question but sometimes it's the only machine you have :-) > I am a VGA house myself, mainly because I have a rack of machines, one VGA > monitor on the rack, and a wandering VGA cable for the infrequent times I > need to get at a machine's console.... but an 8 or 16 bit ISA VGA card > with 256KB is more than sufficient for a server. > > One of my clients is big into mono cards and mono monitors, they have the > redeeming quality that you can leave them on 24/7 and not be too saddened > when a monitor dies because they are so easy to come by used. > > You don't really need workstation speed graphics on a server class machine. I know what you mean... Sometimes space is the issue and the machine would need to be used as a workstation as well. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 6 14:25:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01882 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01864 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.gds.de (goofy.gds.de [194.77.222.2]) by gds.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA03449 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:12:57 GMT Message-Id: <199611070012.AAA03449@gds.de> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Gresek" Organization: Plus.Net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:23:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: inn X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Richard Gresek" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, I=B4m trying to setup an inn site. I have installed inn 1.4 from the ports collection on a FreeBSD 2.1.5. When starting innd or inndstart I get the following messages: Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME descriptors 64 Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME outgoing 51 Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: /usr/local/news/lib/history cant dbminit ME No such file or directory Why is he looking for the file 'ME'? What does it meann 'descriptors 64', 'outgoing 51'? Thanks in advance Richard +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald : 60596 Frankfurt : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de : Fax : +49 69 610238 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 6 17:05:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13480 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13475 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA01538; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:05:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:03:25 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: inn In-Reply-To: <199611070012.AAA03449@gds.de> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > When starting innd or inndstart I get the following messages: > > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME descriptors 64 > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME outgoing 51 > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: /usr/local/news/lib/history cant dbminit > ME No such file or directory See Part 3 of the INN FAQ: "Reasons Why INN Isn't Starting" http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/faq-inn-3 While you are there, might as well read the other eight parts too. http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/faq-inn-[1-9] -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 6 22:20:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02688 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from access.tnet.com.au (access.tnet.com.au [203.15.94.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02679 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from slaterm@localhost) by access.tnet.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA03172; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:55:56 +0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:55:55 +0800 (WST) From: Michael Slater To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au Subject: Mgetty and Stallion Easy IO with 2.1.5 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I recently installed FreeBSD on a machine with two Easy IO Stallion multi-port adapters. Everything seemed to go OK, with one exception... FreeBSD finds and initializes the cards, mgetty recognises the modems, but whenever you try and dial in it connects, but it does not give you a login prompt, i installed mgetty from the ports collection straight of the C.D, and i assumed it configured it correctly. Any clues what could cause mgetty to behave in this manner or perhaps it's the stallion driver ? thank you Michael Slater slaterm@tnet.com.au From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 7 02:51:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA18411 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.dlc.fi (pegasus.dlc.fi [194.251.35.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA18291 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from raccoon@localhost) by pegasus.dlc.fi (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA16169; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:46:25 +0200 (EET) From: "Antti Rytsola" Message-Id: <9611071246.ZM16165@pegasus.dlc.fi> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:46:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Richard Gresek" "inn" (Nov 6, 11:23pm) References: <199611070012.AAA03449@gds.de> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "Richard Gresek" , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: inn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART-BOUNDARY=.19611071246.ZM16165.dlc.fi" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --PART-BOUNDARY=.19611071246.ZM16165.dlc.fi Content-Description: Text Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME descriptors 64 > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME outgoing 51 Those are normal. > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: /usr/local/news/lib/history cant dbminit > ME No such file or directory Either you have no /usr/local/news/lib directory or your inn has no permission to write over there. > Why is he looking for the file 'ME'? What does it meann ME is something inn uses when referring to herself.. > 'descriptors 64', 'outgoing 51'? > Propably FD and Outoing initialization. Don't really know, don't care. -- = Antti Ryts=F6l=E4 Data Link Connections raccoon@dlc.fi = = --PART-BOUNDARY=.19611071246.ZM16165.dlc.fi-- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 7 14:48:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24517 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24463 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA16076 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 05:01:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA19425; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:03:49 GMT Received: from buffnet7.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa03522; 7 Nov 96 8:08 EST Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:08:00 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Hovey To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inn In-Reply-To: <199611070012.AAA03449@gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This means you need to run makehistory before starting up a new install. ME just lets you know iun messages that the error is a loocal one and not at a peer or something. On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME descriptors 64 > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: ME outgoing 51 > Nov 7 00:20:59 pluto innd: /usr/local/news/lib/history cant dbminit > ME No such file or directory From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 7 22:40:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA12514 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12481 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (root@pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id TAA19040 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rigel (ts3-pt0.pcnet.com) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26407; Thu, 7 Nov 96 22:43:59 EST Message-Id: <32826863.3F54BC7E@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:53:23 +0000 From: "Daniel M. Eischen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01b1Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Cc: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org Subject: [Fwd: A curious reporter] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------31DFF4F5ABD322CFF6D5DF" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31DFF4F5ABD322CFF6D5DF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was originally posted to -questions, but I thought it would get a better response from the ISPs using FreeBSD:-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org --------------31DFF4F5ABD322CFF6D5DF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail.webspan.net by iworks.InterWorks.org with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA09287; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:26:40 -0600 Return-Path: Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by mail.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA09816; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27817; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA27787 for questions-outgoing; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com (root@mh1.well.com [206.15.64.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27781 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from assigned.well.com (Cust32.Max4.Los-Angeles.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.72.32]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id SAA21835 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:02:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611080202.SAA21835@mh1.well.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 18:15:04 -0800 From: PJ Huffstuter Organization: The WELL X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: A curious reporter Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-questions@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm a reporter with the Los Angeles Daily News and am working on a story about business models on-line. Several of the companies that I'm featuring in the story use FreeBSD. I'd love to insert a comment from someone associated with the system into the story. If someone has the time, could he/she call me at 818-713-3738. Or I can be reached by e-mail. Thanks for your time, PJ Huffstutter Los Angeles Daily News --------------31DFF4F5ABD322CFF6D5DF-- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 8 00:18:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA18241 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cliff.fd1.uc.edu (cliff.fd1.uc.edu [129.137.244.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18236 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:18:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from BSHIRO (max1-800-06.earthlink.net [206.149.205.7]) by cliff.fd1.uc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA02043 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 03:20:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961108080945.006bed30@earthlink.net> X-Sender: ziggy69@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 00:09:45 -0800 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Zigg-E Subject: join Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk join From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 8 05:08:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA01848 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 05:08:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from marlin.com.br (blue.marlin.com.br [200.255.107.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA01832; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 05:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by marlin.com.br (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id LAA15711; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:05:25 -0200 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:05:23 -0200 (EDT) From: "Alexsandro D. F. Correia" To: announce@FreeBSD.ORG cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems restoring Backups !!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Sirs, I'm having lots of troubles with my backups, and i hope someone can HELP ME. Here we have two machines with the same configuration. Pentium 100, 32 Mb RAM, HD 2.0 gb SCSI and an EXABYTE - 4mm Cartridge tape drive Running FreeBSD 2.1. That's the problem i have. I can write to the tape, but i can't read anything from the tape. When i try to restore a backup, using tar for example my system crashes. The computer tries to access de tape, and nothing happens, waits about two minutes and then the system CRASHES. Here follows the error msg the system sends to me: ahc0:target 3,lun 0 (st0) timet out st0(ahc0:3:0):BUS DEVICE RESET message Queued. st0(ahc0:3:0):TARGET Busy ahc0:A:3:no active SCB for reconnecting target - issuing ABORT. SAVED_TCL == 0x30 ahc0:target1,lun0(sd0) timed out By the way, I tested the restore on both machines, using CPIO and TAR. But everytime i try to access something from the tape to the HD, the system crashes. Any help or information will be useful. I need to soon this problem as soon as possible. Please, I'll be very glad if someone help me. Thanx a lot. Alexsandro Correia +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Alexsandro Correia E-mail: acorreia@marlin.com.br Analista de Suporte Internet Tel : +55 21 224-9950 +55 21 253-2971 +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Marlin Internet http://www.marlin.com.br Rua 7 de Setembro 48/13 Andar Tel: +55 21 224-9950 Centro - Rio de Janeiro Fax: +55 21 223-427 RJ - Brasil +-------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 8 14:25:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14236 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14227 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id OAA28263; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:30:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:30:18 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: NIS To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Where can I get an NIS package and its relevant documentation? Thanks, Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 07:15:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02973 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 07:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruz.isle.net (root@cruz.isle.net [204.140.227.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02966 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 07:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from john (router1port04.isle.net [204.140.227.227]) by cruz.isle.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA15410 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:12:41 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961109151221.0092e2c4@isle.net> X-Sender: johns@isle.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 07:12:21 -0800 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: John Scharles Subject: Taylor UUCP chat Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to automate a logon session using cu and everything seems to work fine until I try to use chat to send a 'cr' to initiate the login. For now the connection is direct and if I manually hit enter after the Connected message all goes well. Throwing cu into the debug mode doesn't shed much light for me! Here are the taylor files I've set up: #SYS file # The name of the remote system that we call. system test # The port we use to dial out. port OB0 chat "" \r\n #trying enter and newline! # PORT file defaults type direct speed 38400 carrier true hardflow true # This is the name of the port. port OB0 device /dev/cue0 When I try cu -d test I get: cu: fconn_open: Opening port OB0 (default speed) cu: fconn_set: Changing setting to 0, 0, 2 Connected. ~. #manually closing the session after no login prompt cu: Exit status 0 cu: fconn_close: Closing connection If the chat worked I should have a login prompt after the Connected message. Anyone out there schooled in the strange vodoo of taylor scripts? TIA John From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 08:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA08369 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Orion.w3page.com (root@p04.pm-6.pm.dimensional.com [206.100.130.164]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA08359 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from Orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Orion.w3page.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02090 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 09:50:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3284B666.5B244EBB@w3page.com> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 09:50:46 -0700 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "isp@freebsd.org" Subject: MicroSoft Front Page Extensions. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some time back I noticed someone mentioned Microsoft Front Page Extensions under FreeBSD. Could someone who is using this please give a sysnopsis of what is required to install this under FreeBSD 2.1.5 please? Thanks in advance. -- Sincerely, Blaine Minazzi From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 13:59:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23749 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 13:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bbs.mpcs.com (root@bbs.mpcs.com [204.215.226.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23743 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 13:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from pickle.n2wx.ampr.org (pickle.south.mpcs.com [204.215.226.89]) by bbs.mpcs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/MPCS) with ESMTP id QAA30745 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:59:47 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by pickle.n2wx.ampr.org (8.8.2/8.8.2/n2wx) id QAA04579 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from penny.n2wx.ampr.org (hg@penny.n2wx.ampr.org [204.215.226.90]) by pickle.n2wx.ampr.org (8.8.2/8.8.2/n2wx) with ESMTP id QAA04573 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from hg@localhost) by penny.n2wx.ampr.org (8.8.0/8.8.1/n2wx) id QAA12488; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:59:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:59:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199611092159.QAA12488@penny.n2wx.ampr.org> From: Howard Goldstein To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver Organization: disorganization Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Trying to tweak the newsserver here. I have the slices that are hammered all mounted async (are they really working async? is there a way to tell?). Any other useful mount options for a local fs? For further performance improvements the tunefs (8) hints that a space optimized fs costs a lot. My messages log shows /kernel keeps changing the tuning of the news spool, although for the last two days it's kept it on space optimized. I shouldn't really care much about avoiding fragmentation on my frequently rm'd newsspool [should I...?] and would like to save the expense. What's the best way to use tunefs in this service? Any preferred options here? From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 18:16:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04639 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.ssi1.com (salsa.gv.ssi1.com [146.252.44.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04634 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.ssi1.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA27584; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:16:01 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199611100216.SAA27584@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:16:01 -0800 In-Reply-To: Howard Goldstein "Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver" (Nov 9, 4:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Howard Goldstein , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 9, 4:59pm, Howard Goldstein wrote: } Subject: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver } For further performance improvements the tunefs (8) hints that a space } optimized fs costs a lot. My messages log shows /kernel keeps } changing the tuning of the news spool, although for the last two days } it's kept it on space optimized. Sometimes I have my doubts about its heuristics, but ... } I shouldn't really care much about } avoiding fragmentation on my frequently rm'd newsspool [should I...?] Yes you should if you get it close to full. I've had a badly spool totally run out of free blocks when df showed it still had about 5% free (including the minfree margin). The problem was that all the free space consisted of fragments, which are useless when you try to create a file that is at least block_size-fragsize+1 byte long. Once this happens, your news server grinds to a halt until expire frees up some blocks. --- Truck From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 18:33:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05328 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from adsight.com (adsight.com [207.86.2.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05323 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from webadmin@localhost) by adsight.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA24532; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:26:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:26:47 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Magee To: Blaine Minazzi cc: "isp@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: MicroSoft Front Page Extensions. In-Reply-To: <3284B666.5B244EBB@w3page.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > Some time back I noticed someone mentioned Microsoft Front Page > Extensions under FreeBSD. Could someone who is using this please > give a sysnopsis of what is required to install this under FreeBSD > 2.1.5 please? > > Thanks in advance. > -- > Sincerely, > > > Blaine Minazzi > Whoever is using the FP extensions, how do you deal with FrontPage's requirement that you run your web server as "root"? Doesn't that create a possible cgi nightmare for security? Sam Magee From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 9 19:44:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09403 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:44:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ijs.com (ijs.com [205.149.188.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09385 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ijs (ijs.vip.best.com [205.149.161.71]) by ijs.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA01999; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 19:36:37 -0800 Message-ID: <3284DECE.4620@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 19:43:10 +0000 From: Jivko Koltchev X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Magee CC: Blaine Minazzi , "isp@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: MicroSoft Front Page Extensions. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sam Magee wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > > > Some time back I noticed someone mentioned Microsoft Front Page > > Extensions under FreeBSD. Could someone who is using this please > > give a sysnopsis of what is required to install this under FreeBSD > > 2.1.5 please? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Blaine Minazzi > > > > Whoever is using the FP extensions, how do you deal with > FrontPage's requirement that you run your web server as "root"? > Doesn't that create a possible cgi nightmare for security? > > Sam Magee I am not sure they have such a requirement. One can have it working under any UID, however that user should have read/write access to all html files/directories. Letting your customers use FP could be a problem but in general it depends on your WWW server configuration. For instance if your server runs under one UID:GID for all users, using FP could be fun for some of them. (I needed to set up a new machine on which for customers willing to use FP) Jivko