From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 00:24:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA23536 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA23424 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id AAA16625; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18791; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:22:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611100822.AAA18791@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Howard Goldstein cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 09 Nov 96 16:59:40 -0500. <199611092159.QAA12488@penny.n2wx.ampr.org> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:22:16 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Trying to tweak the newsserver here. I have the slices that are >hammered all mounted async (are they really working async? is there a >way to tell?). Any other useful mount options for a local fs? I think so. I run my NetBSD box this way, and it's pretty obvious sometimes that it's async. For example, copy a big directory of lots of files (like /usr/src/) to somewhere, sync it and let it settle, then rm -rf it. It should finish really quickly, then a burst of disk activity when sync time comes. I'll also note that I haven't had any reliability problems running async. Of course, I don't crash a lot, but I suspect most people don't. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 04:22:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04811 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from bbs.mpcs.com (hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com [204.215.226.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04806 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hgoldste@localhost) by bbs.mpcs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/MPCS) id HAA19687; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:22:42 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:22:42 -0500 From: Howard Goldstein Message-Id: <199611101222.HAA19687@bbs.mpcs.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-Reply-To: <199611100822.AAA18791@MindBender.serv.net> Reply-To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199611100822.AAA18791@MindBender.serv.net>, michaelv wrote: : : >Trying to tweak the newsserver here. I have the slices that are : >hammered all mounted async (are they really working async? is there a : >way to tell?). Any other useful mount options for a local fs? : : I think so. I run my NetBSD box this way, and it's pretty obvious : sometimes that it's async. For example, copy a big directory of lots : of files (like /usr/src/) to somewhere, sync it and let it settle, : then rm -rf it. It should finish really quickly, then a burst of disk : activity when sync time comes. Hmmm this is very interesting. I did see a delay until sync time came but what's really interesting is the huge amount of disk access that took place asynchronously. The time difference between rm -r'ing /usr/src/sys (copied somewhere else :) ) on a sync vs async mounted filesystem was not discernable. Each rm -r run took about 10 seconds; the async run included a little burst of flushing activity about 2 seconds after the shell prompt returned. I think there should be an adequate amount of cache available on a 32mb system with only myself as the user. nb., I have a half dozen xterms running rlogin open but that's about it, and I don't know how to interpret vmstat's output to see what's going on. Any suggestions on a definitive way to find out the extent of caching going on? Is the fact that the slice I tested on is marked NFS exported (but not being actively exported) a factor here? Should I be asking this on the fs mailing list? -- Howard Goldstein (please note reply-to if you reply directly lest my junk mail filter will kick in From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 04:29:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA05058 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:29:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from bbs.mpcs.com (hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com [204.215.226.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA05051 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hgoldste@localhost) by bbs.mpcs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/MPCS) id HAA19699; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:29:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:29:36 -0500 From: Howard Goldstein Message-Id: <199611101229.HAA19699@bbs.mpcs.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Cc: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-Reply-To: <199611100216.SAA27584@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> Reply-To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199611100216.SAA27584@salsa.gv.ssi1.com>, you wrote: : On Nov 9, 4:59pm, Howard Goldstein wrote: : } Subject: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver : } For further performance improvements the tunefs (8) hints that a space : } optimized fs costs a lot. My messages log shows /kernel keeps : } changing the tuning of the news spool, although for the last two days : } it's kept it on space optimized. : : Sometimes I have my doubts about its heuristics, but ... As do I. I try to keep things so the spool is no more than 75% full when news.daily kicks in, but it consistently stays in SPACE optimization. When it bounces into TIME optimization it kicks back to SPACE within a handful of minutes. Unfortunately the person who mk'd this filesystem didn't set me up with enough inodes so I don't really have much choice but to keep it no more than 75%! -- Howard Goldstein From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 09:53:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA21394 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21388 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA14668 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:39:57 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa28305; 10 Nov 96 12:44 EST Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:44:04 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Blaine Minazzi cc: "isp@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: MicroSoft Front Page Extensions. In-Reply-To: <3284B666.5B244EBB@w3page.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > Some time back I noticed someone mentioned Microsoft Front Page > Extensions under FreeBSD. Could someone who is using this please > give a sysnopsis of what is required to install this under FreeBSD > 2.1.5 please? You dont want to, unless you like crackers messing up your pages. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 11:31:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27672 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ican.net (ican.net [198.133.36.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27652 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.ican.net(really [198.133.36.2]) by ican.net via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:31:15 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Jul-10) Received: (from smap@localhost) by gate.ican.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03994 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from cabal.io.org(10.1.6.2) by gate.ican.net via smap (V1.3) id sma003992; Sun Nov 10 14:30:10 1996 Received: from localhost (taob@localhost) by cabal.io.org (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10155 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:30:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cabal.io.org: taob owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:30:10 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-ISP-L Subject: Re: **ccd, disk striping, and fsck problems** In-Reply-To: <199610151658.LAA26097@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > csh -c "unlimit; exec fsck -p" > > as a way to circumvent the per process memory limit that you may be > running into. FWIW, this is what I see when fscking one of my test ccd filesystems (5x2GB drives). If the amount of memory consumed is directly proportional to the number of files, then I imagine a large news spool with several million files might require 40MB or more for an fsck. # time fsck -y /dev/rccd0c ** /dev/rccd0c ** Last Mounted on /news/spool ** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes ** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames ** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity ** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts ** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups 1207915 files, 10459546 used, 0 free (0 frags, 0 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) 20.430u 6.885s 16:22.79 2.7% 206+18844k 2+1io 7pf+0w # df -i Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/ccd0c 10459546 10459546 -836763 109% 1207915 1318803 48% /news/spool -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 11:39:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28510 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28502 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id LAA23828; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23455; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611101939.LAA23455@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 10 Nov 96 07:22:42 -0500. <199611101222.HAA19687@bbs.mpcs.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:21 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : >Trying to tweak the newsserver here. I have the slices that are > : >hammered all mounted async (are they really working async? is there a > : >way to tell?). Any other useful mount options for a local fs? > : I think so. I run my NetBSD box this way, and it's pretty obvious > : sometimes that it's async. For example, copy a big directory of lots > : of files (like /usr/src/) to somewhere, sync it and let it settle, > : then rm -rf it. It should finish really quickly, then a burst of disk > : activity when sync time comes. >Hmmm this is very interesting. I did see a delay until sync time came >but what's really interesting is the huge amount of disk access that >took place asynchronously. > >The time difference between rm -r'ing /usr/src/sys (copied somewhere >else :) ) on a sync vs async mounted filesystem was not discernable. >Each rm -r run took about 10 seconds; the async run included a little >burst of flushing activity about 2 seconds after the shell prompt >returned. Interesting. It's a pretty obvious difference when I do it on NetBSD (and I don't think there should be a big difference in behavior between the BSDs in this particular case). >I think there should be an adequate amount of cache available on a >32mb system with only myself as the user. I suppose it's possible you could over-run the cache if the stuff you were rm'ing was too big. >Any suggestions on a definitive way to find out the extent of caching >going on? Is the fact that the slice I tested on is marked NFS >exported (but not being actively exported) a factor here? >Should I be asking this on the fs mailing list? I'll have to defer this to someone more knowledgable about the internals of FreeBSD... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 18:12:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05849 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05844 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA01988; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:10:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611110210.SAA01988@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:39:21 PST." <199611101939.LAA23455@MindBender.serv.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:10:57 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'll have to defer this to someone more knowledgable about the >internals of FreeBSD... We didn't have async support in 2.1.0. We had partial support for it in 2.1.5, and full support for it in 2.2/-current. In -current, it should take only a few seconds to delete /usr/src. :-) (I haven't tried, however) The ultra-fast async in 2.2/-current also means that it has a much higher chance of trashing your filesystem if the system should go down before the stuff is written out...so it's a mixed bag. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 18:19:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06006 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from access.tnet.com.au (access.tnet.com.au [203.15.94.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05999 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:19:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from access.tnet.com.au (access.tnet.com.au [203.15.94.1]) by access.tnet.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA32151 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:56:10 +0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:56:09 +0800 (WST) From: Michael Slater To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Converting linux shadow passwords Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I am in the process of switching from Linux to FreeBSD, and am wondering if their is a method of Converting the Linux password/shadow file into a FreeBSD password file, other than manually re-entering every user ? thanks, Michael Slater From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 21:04:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA13309 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from bitbucket.edmweb.com (bitbucket.edmweb.com [204.244.190.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13290 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by bitbucket.edmweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00756; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:03:52 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 21:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Reid To: Michael Slater cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Converting linux shadow passwords In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am in the process of switching from Linux to FreeBSD, and am > wondering if their is a method of Converting the Linux password/shadow > file into a FreeBSD password file, other than manually re-entering every > user ? You can not convert the format. Both password systems are based on different functions, and both functions are designed to be one-way. You can, however, set up your FreeBSD system to use the standard DES style passwords. This is covered in the FAQ section 2.20. Take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ43.html ===================================================================== | Steve Reid - SysAdmin & Pres, EDM Web (http://www.edmweb.com/) | | Email: steve@edmweb.com Home Page: http://www.edmweb.com/steve/ | | PGP (2048/9F317269) Fingerprint: 11C89D1CD67287E68C09EC52443F8830 | | -- Disclaimer: JMHO, YMMV, TANSTAAFL, IANAL. -- | ===================================================================:) From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Nov 10 23:50:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA26023 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:50:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA26014 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id XAA08994; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24838; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:50:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611110750.XAA24838@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Slater cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Converting linux shadow passwords In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 11 Nov 96 09:56:09 +0800. Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:50:13 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am in the process of switching from Linux to FreeBSD, and am >wondering if their is a method of Converting the Linux password/shadow >file into a FreeBSD password file, other than manually re-entering every >user ? If all you want to do is move the "data", you should be able to write a awk or perl script in a few minutes that would suck in the old info, and rewrite it in the new format. Of course, your passwords probably won't work in the new system, so those will probably all have to be reset, manually, once you've successfully moved all the rest of the data to a new passwd file. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 00:26:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA28782 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:26:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from enetis.net (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28773 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from enet1 (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by enetis.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA17443 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:24:46 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:24:45 -0700 (MST) From: Justin England X-Sender: jengland@enet1 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's the situation: I have 2 class-C IP blocks. The main network is 206.31.204.0, the second network is 206.31.205.0. I have set up a FreeBSD machine with two network cards, ed0:206.31.205.1 and ed1:206.31.204.14. I am creating a gateway from the main 204 net to the 205 net using the FreeBSD (2.1.5-RELEASE) machine. (yes, I have the gateway option compiled in) Here's what I can do: I can get TO the 205 net FROM the 204 net without any problems. (traceroute from 206.31.204.1 to 206.31.205.2) 1 hillsnet.enetis.net (206.31.204.14) 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms 2 206.31.205.2 (206.31.205.2) 2 ms (ttl=249!) 3 ms (ttl=249!) 2 ms (ttl=249!) And I can get TO the 204 net FROM the 205 net without any problems. On the gateway machine, I have the deffault route pointing to my border router and all machines on the 205 net have 206.31.205.1 as the default route. I have a static route from my upstream pointing the two nets (204 and 205) to my router. I have a static route in my Cisco pointing the 205 net back to the 206.31.204.14 interface on the gateway machine. Between the two nets (204 and 205), everything seems to work without any problems. Here's the problem: >From my 205 net, I CAN'T get to the outside world, and the outside world CAN'T get to my 205 net. I have an account with Netcom, and when I traceroute FROM netcom TO my 205 net, it stops at the 206.31.204.14 interface in the gateway machine. When I traceroute FROM my 205 net TO the outside world it stops at my router. Here's the question: Everything looks properly configured from my side. Am I having a problem with my router configuration, or is the problem with my FreeBSD gateway configuration??? I have double and triple checked my routing tables on my router and my gateway machine, and everything LOOKS like it should work!!!! There has to be something that I am overlooking, that should be very simple to figure out, but I am goin nuts tring to fing it!!! Any insight on my problem would be appreciated!! TIA, Justin England From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 00:56:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA01285 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA01280 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 00:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA20678; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:55:17 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611110855.CAA20678@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? To: jengland@enetis.net (Justin England) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:55:17 -0600 (CST) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Justin England at "Nov 11, 96 01:24:45 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin England wrote: > Here's the situation: > > I have 2 class-C IP blocks. The main network is 206.31.204.0, the second > network is 206.31.205.0. I have set up a FreeBSD machine with two > network cards, ed0:206.31.205.1 and ed1:206.31.204.14. I am creating a > gateway from the main 204 net to the 205 net using the FreeBSD > (2.1.5-RELEASE) machine. (yes, I have the gateway option compiled in) On a 2.1.5 machine you should be using sysctl and turning on the ip forwarding value. GATEWAY has no effect in 2.1.5. --SNIP-- > > Justin England > Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 01:03:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA01633 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:03:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (bradley@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01628 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 01:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA18662; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:02:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:02:56 -0500 (EST) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: Justin England cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shot in the dark... Maybe your upstream is filtering your source addresses, and is denying packets with the 205 source addresses? A way to test this would be to fire up a sniffer on the 204 net, try to get to the 205 net from the outside world, and see what is going on. If your upstream is filtering, everything should appear normal on the 204 net. Tcpdump is your friend. :-) -BD On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Justin England wrote: > I can get TO the 205 net FROM the 204 net without any problems. > And I can get TO the 204 net FROM the 205 net without any problems. > Here's the problem: > > >From my 205 net, I CAN'T get to the outside world, and the outside world > CAN'T get to my 205 net. I have an account with Netcom, and when I > traceroute FROM netcom TO my 205 net, it stops at the 206.31.204.14 > interface in the gateway machine. When I traceroute FROM my 205 net TO > the outside world it stops at my router. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 02:41:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA07119 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA07114 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01918; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:40:55 -0800 (PST) To: Gary Clark II cc: jengland@enetis.net (Justin England), isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:55:17 CST." <199611110855.CAA20678@main.gbdata.com> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:40:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1916.847708855@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On a 2.1.5 machine you should be using sysctl and turning on > the ip forwarding value. GATEWAY has no effect in 2.1.5. Which is accomplished by setting gateway to YES in /etc/sysconfig. I'm surpised that Justin didn't just check "This machine will be a gateway" in the installation. It's one of the installation options, and it sets the sysconfig flag for you. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 03:33:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA09079 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 03:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com ([207.90.222.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA09066 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 03:33:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id FAA21396; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:32:11 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199611111132.FAA21396@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:32:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: jengland@enetis.net, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1916.847708855@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Nov 11, 96 02:40:55 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On a 2.1.5 machine you should be using sysctl and turning on > > the ip forwarding value. GATEWAY has no effect in 2.1.5. > > Which is accomplished by setting gateway to YES in /etc/sysconfig. Jordan, In his original message he talks about having GATEWAY compiled in. This sounds like he did it in the kernel NOT /etc/sysconfig. > > I'm surpised that Justin didn't just check "This machine will be a > gateway" in the installation. It's one of the installation > options, and it sets the sysconfig flag for you. True, its been so long since I did a scratch install:) > > Jordan > Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 04:59:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA12386 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from bbs.mpcs.com (hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com [204.215.226.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA12381; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:59:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hgoldste@localhost) by bbs.mpcs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/MPCS) id HAA31462; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:59:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:59:20 -0500 From: Howard Goldstein Message-Id: <199611111259.HAA31462@bbs.mpcs.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Cc: dg@root.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver In-Reply-To: <199611110210.SAA01988@root.com> Reply-To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [for just one swipe going to fbsd-fs too] In article <199611110210.SAA01988@root.com>, dg@root.com wrote: : >I'll have to defer this to someone more knowledgable about the : >internals of FreeBSD... : : We didn't have async support in 2.1.0. We had partial support for it in : 2.1.5, and full support for it in 2.2/-current. In -current, it should take : only a few seconds to delete /usr/src. :-) (I haven't tried, however) The Ahh excellent I guess it's time to grab some code and start following freebsd-current. Thanks! : ultra-fast async in 2.2/-current also means that it has a much higher chance : of trashing your filesystem if the system should go down before the stuff : is written out...so it's a mixed bag. Well if we lose the newsspool, overviews, and history it's not such a big deal, just wait 6 days and it's all back again. In some ways it's a Good Thing as all the smut and spam are gone, albeit temporarily. Note our users would not agree with this. Of course 99% probably wouldn't notice if I dropped everything other than alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, but that's another story. Would be neat to have a new class of filesystem, call it "expfs" (expendable filesystem) for low-value high-volume stuff like news articles. Could have default async writes, noatime, preferred time optimization, anything else that would lend itself to this sort of thing. Regarding current, can one do a surgical strike (make on kernel only) install on it or is a make world needed as it would be for the NOATIME patch? -- Howard Goldstein From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 06:25:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA16307 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16285; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA19231; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:25:10 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611111425.IAA19231@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver To: hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:25:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, dg@root.com, michaelv@MindBender.serv.net In-Reply-To: <199611111259.HAA31462@bbs.mpcs.com> from "Howard Goldstein" at Nov 11, 96 07:59:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Would be neat to have a new class of filesystem, call it "expfs" > (expendable filesystem) for low-value high-volume stuff like news > articles. Could have default async writes, noatime, preferred time > optimization, anything else that would lend itself to this sort of thing. Oh, boatloads :-) One big win in general would be an extension to FFS to allow some sort of sorted or hashed directory, which would be useful for directories with lots of files (not just news spool, think about large mail spools, etc). News in particular could stand to have its very own type of filesystem, since it has lots of things that can be optimized for. Consider changing the news directory behavior on a news spool. You have two types of data, subdirectories and articles. In general isdigit(element[0]) is a good first guess at which type of directory entry it is, so now consider the following: A portion of the "directory" is reserved for subdirectories. Since it is not often updated with new entries, it is considered to be acceptable to maintain it as a sorted list, or some other method (hashing perhaps) to allow rapid binary tree style lookups. A portion of the "directory" is reserved for news articles. Usenet news articles have fascinating properties: they are written in numerically ascending order, and tend to be erased in the same fashion. Adding a new file need be only as complex as knowing the offset of the last entry written and checking against it to make sure that the new entry is higher (if not, one would need to shuffle the directory to "make it right"). Removal simply zeroes the entry; empty directory blocks can be freed. As a further twist, the "article" entries are stored in native integer format as opposed to ASCII "string" format, allowing comparisons to happen even more rapidly. Now we have mechanisms in place for extremely fast lookup operations and write operations. If only I had the hours in the day to learn how to write my own file systems... FFS is excellent as a general purpose file system, but it lacks the ability to take advantage of these types of things. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 06:50:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17704 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17695 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA19243; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:48:48 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611111448.IAA19243@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: MicroSoft Front Page Extensions. To: webadmin@adsight.com (Sam Magee) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:48:48 -0600 (CST) Cc: bminazzi@w3page.com, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Sam Magee" at Nov 9, 96 09:26:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > > > Some time back I noticed someone mentioned Microsoft Front Page > > Extensions under FreeBSD. Could someone who is using this please > > give a sysnopsis of what is required to install this under FreeBSD > > 2.1.5 please? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Blaine Minazzi > > > > Whoever is using the FP extensions, how do you deal with > FrontPage's requirement that you run your web server as "root"? > Doesn't that create a possible cgi nightmare for security? Set it up in a chrooted environment. And for each hit, you have it mail a problem report to the Microsoft bug address that the darn thing is running as root. ( :-) ) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 08:09:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA22715 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from enetis.net (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22710 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from enet1 (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by enetis.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21854 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:08:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:08:30 -0700 (MST) From: Justin England X-Sender: jengland@enet1 To: isp@freebsd.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? In-Reply-To: <1916.847708855@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On a 2.1.5 machine you should be using sysctl and turning on > > the ip forwarding value. GATEWAY has no effect in 2.1.5. > > Which is accomplished by setting gateway to YES in /etc/sysconfig. > > I'm surpised that Justin didn't just check "This machine will be a > gateway" in the installation. It's one of the installation > options, and it sets the sysconfig flag for you. > > Jordan > Which is what I have done. That's why this problem is so strange, I have everything set up to work, but it's not..... Justin From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 09:29:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27694 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from databus.databus.com (databus.databus.com [198.186.154.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27689; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:29:54 -0800 (PST) From: Barney Wolff To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:22 EST Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: <3287628d0.4fed@databus.databus.com> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Did God say to Moses that each article must reside in its own file? This is an application problem, not a file system problem. Or at least it is if you ever want to move the solution to another OS. Barney Wolff From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 09:41:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA28363 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from starfire.mn.org (root@starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28355; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.7.5/1.1) id LAA15056; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:41:33 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611111741.LAA15056@starfire.mn.org> Subject: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:41:33 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have created a version of getty that watches for the first four bytes of the LCP leader and exec's pppd (-detach auth) if it sees it. This allows dialup PPP access to FreeBSD boxes from other FreeBSD boxes, Windows 3.1, Windows NT, Windows 95, and MAC's without having to go through the pain of login scripting. I'd like to make this generally available, but am not sure how best to do so. The change is very small, only about 8 lines of code, and doesn't change the size of the stripped executable. Should it be submitted as a permanent inclusion in getty? If so, it should probably be specifically enabled by a parameter or an extension to gettytab. Of course, either of those will increase the size of the change to the program, so maybe it is best to leave it as a separate program that sites can use in place of the regular getty. On the other hand, "getty" is pretty essential to BSD and has been around forever, and is likely to stay around for a good long time, as well. That isn't as true of pppd. To have the path to pppd compiled into getty is a real lack of symmetry in that respect. I dunno. Too many options without enough information for me to make informed choices. Right now, on my system, I simply created a "gettyppp" and put it in /etc/ttys in place of getty for the log in ports. It is sort of a silly waste of RAM and/or swap space to have both "getty" and "gettyppp" so perhaps I should just plain replace getty with gettyppp. I'm not too concerned about someone accidentally typing the LCP header from a virtual terminal or something. It would be pretty hard to do, and wouldn't accomplish anything that wouldn't resolve itself. Suggestions and comments are most welcome. Please help me figure out how best to finish off this project and make it generally useful. John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 10:46:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02258 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02238; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20618; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (proff@localhost) by suburbia.net (8.7.4/Proff-950810) id FAA15637; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:46:14 +1100 From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199611111846.FAA15637@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: john@starfire.mn.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 05:46:13 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199611111741.LAA15056@starfire.mn.org> from "john@starfire.mn.org" at Nov 11, 96 11:41:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The change is very small, only about 8 lines of code, and doesn't > change the size of the stripped executable. Should it be submitted > as a permanent inclusion in getty? If so, it should probably be Make the string to be executed an option. if it is specified ppp scanning is enabled. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | C7F81C2AA32D7D4E4D360A2ED2098E0D | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 11:05:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03488 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03459; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA19680; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:02:58 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611111902.NAA19680@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Best mount options, tunefs for newsserver To: barney@databus.com (Barney Wolff) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:02:57 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3287628d0.4fed@databus.databus.com> from "Barney Wolff" at Nov 11, 96 12:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Did God say to Moses that each article must reside in its own file? > > This is an application problem, not a file system problem. Or at > least it is if you ever want to move the solution to another OS. God said to Moses that unless you want to write your own news server, each article must reside in its own file. Some of us are already "breaking" that paradigm. But practical production use is still a ways in the future. However, to a certain extent, an OS should be considered as something which provides an environment and tools with which to perform tasks. Debating whether God told Moses to use those tools, or if he told Moses to write a good database engine to handle it, is sort of irrelevant... There are some clear deficiencies in FFS. The lack of rapid directory lookups for large directories is one. The lack of a "bat outta hell" mode for data writes is another (since generally I could care less if I lose articles after a crash, maybe I don't even care too much about directories... but I do want it to come back without manual fsck intervention, even having lost some data)... That's just my opinion though... :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 11:05:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03526 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03515; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA19691; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:04:30 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611111904.NAA19691@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: john@starfire.mn.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:04:29 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611111741.LAA15056@starfire.mn.org> from "john@starfire.mn.org" at Nov 11, 96 11:41:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have created a version of getty that watches for the first four > bytes of the LCP leader and exec's pppd (-detach auth) if it sees > it. This allows dialup PPP access to FreeBSD boxes from other > FreeBSD boxes, Windows 3.1, Windows NT, Windows 95, and MAC's > without having to go through the pain of login scripting. I'd like > to make this generally available, but am not sure how best to do > so. Already been done. I did this six months ago... I haven't checked to see if anyone actually did anything with my patches though. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 12:25:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07587 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from avalon.imagixx.net (root@avalon.imagixx.net [206.31.232.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07568; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.31.232.10] (mgb.imagixx.net [206.31.232.10]) by avalon.imagixx.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA09627; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:18:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:18:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199611112018.PAA09627@avalon.imagixx.net> Subject: Telcos Refund Millions to ISPs From: "Martin G. Bayerle" To: "Small Internet Access Providers" , , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk IMPORTANT. Check your phone bills for your dedicated modem lines. If you're paying a "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (or equivalent) on your modem lines, you're telephone company owes you money . . . MGB/IDEA ______________ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Telcos Cry Ouch as They Return Millions in Overcharges to ISPs Morgantown, WV - The Internet Development & Exchange Association (IDEA) announced today that they were pursuing the telephone companies for millions of dollars in overcharges collected from Internet Service Providers (ISP) nationwide. "We anticipate that the total overcharges which the RBOCs will return to the ISP industry will be somewhere between 4 and 30 million dollars, and the savings to ISPs, while the exemption remains in place, can be into the hundreds of millions of dollars in the future. Although the small to medium sized ISPs are exempt from certain tariffs - exemptions taken by AT&T, AOL, MSN and Compuserve and others - smaller ISPs are often not aware of their applicable exemptions," said Martin Bayerle, Executive Director of IDEA. In 1983, the U.S. government exempted companies who provide access to the national network of computers from certain fees imposed by the RBOCs. "Unfortunately, the telephone companies' business offices are often unaware of the exemption, and the smaller ISP, as a consequence, gets charged. The larger ISPs and their phalanx of lawyers know about the exemptions; the smaller ones often do not," Mr. Bayerle said. These overcharges came to light in May, when IDEA initiated its member audit program. IDEA has already retrieved thousands of dollars in refunds for its membership. IDEA is the Internet industry's trade association. Exemptions would be retroactive to 1983, with some ISPs collecting as much as $100,000 or more in refunds from the telcos. The Association will assist IDEA members in the refund process. _________ Contact: bayerle@auidea.org For general information on IDEA, and its Audit Programs, visit http://www.auidea.org From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 12:52:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA08864 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from enetis.net (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08844 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from enet1 (enet1.enetis.net [206.31.204.1]) by enetis.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25849 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:50:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:50:50 -0700 (MST) From: Justin England X-Sender: jengland@enet1 To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SOLVED!! FreeBSD gateway/routing problems!?!? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to everybody who responed with suggestions on my problem! The solution should make you chuckle a bit. The FreeBSD machine was doing exactly what is was supposed to do, forwarding packets between the two nets/interfaces. The problem was that I configed my Cisco to prevent IP spoofing some time back, therefore is was filtering out all 205.0 packets, just like it should. After I changed the access-lists on the Cisco, everything works fine! Justin England On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Justin England wrote: > Here's the situation: > > I have 2 class-C IP blocks. The main network is 206.31.204.0, the second > network is 206.31.205.0. I have set up a FreeBSD machine with two > network cards, ed0:206.31.205.1 and ed1:206.31.204.14. I am creating a > gateway from the main 204 net to the 205 net using the FreeBSD > (2.1.5-RELEASE) machine. (yes, I have the gateway option compiled in) > > Here's what I can do: > > I can get TO the 205 net FROM the 204 net without any problems. > > (traceroute from 206.31.204.1 to 206.31.205.2) > 1 hillsnet.enetis.net (206.31.204.14) 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms > 2 206.31.205.2 (206.31.205.2) 2 ms (ttl=249!) 3 ms (ttl=249!) 2 ms (ttl=249!) > > And I can get TO the 204 net FROM the 205 net without any problems. > On the gateway machine, I have the deffault route pointing to my border > router and all machines on the 205 net have 206.31.205.1 as the default > route. I have a static route from my upstream pointing the two nets (204 > and 205) to my router. I have a static route in my Cisco pointing the 205 > net back to the 206.31.204.14 interface on the gateway machine. Between > the two nets (204 and 205), everything seems to work without any problems. > > Here's the problem: > > >From my 205 net, I CAN'T get to the outside world, and the outside world > CAN'T get to my 205 net. I have an account with Netcom, and when I > traceroute FROM netcom TO my 205 net, it stops at the 206.31.204.14 > interface in the gateway machine. When I traceroute FROM my 205 net TO > the outside world it stops at my router. > > Here's the question: > > Everything looks properly configured from my side. Am I having a problem > with my router configuration, or is the problem with my FreeBSD gateway > configuration??? I have double and triple checked my routing tables on > my router and my gateway machine, and everything LOOKS like it should > work!!!! There has to be something that I am overlooking, that should be > very simple to figure out, but I am goin nuts tring to fing it!!! > > Any insight on my problem would be appreciated!! > > TIA, > > Justin England > From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 13:19:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10475 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10470 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA18971; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:34:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA17056; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:14:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:14:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon Reply-To: Michael Dillon To: iap@vma.cc.nd.edu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Telcos Owe ISPs Millions Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Martin G. Bayerle wrote: > IMPORTANT. Check your phone bills for your dedicated modem lines. If > you're paying a "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (or equivalent) on your > modem lines, you're telephone company owes you money . . . Do any of you actually pay this charge on your phone bills? From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 13:25:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10907 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10889; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (neal@localhost) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04304; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:17:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:17:35 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Rigney To: Joe Greco cc: john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: <199611111904.NAA19691@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > I have created a version of getty that watches for the first four > > bytes of the LCP leader and exec's pppd (-detach auth) if it sees > > it. This allows dialup PPP access to FreeBSD boxes from other > > FreeBSD boxes, Windows 3.1, Windows NT, Windows 95, and MAC's > > without having to go through the pain of login scripting. I'd like > > to make this generally available, but am not sure how best to do > > so. > > Already been done. I did this six months ago... I haven't checked > to see if anyone actually did anything with my patches though. > > ... JG > I tried using the patches, but they have one small problem. My modems stupidly send a connect message in a way that getty sees as a username. So it sits at Password: waiting for test, but only getting LCP. The other times I got it to work(with different modems), it worked like a charm. -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 13:52:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12825 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua ([194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12817; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA30300; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 23:48:37 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 23:48:37 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: Joe Greco cc: john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: <199611111904.NAA19691@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Joe, wouldn't you mind reminding the URL for your patches, please? (It's a pity that this nice functionality seems to be missed from baseline srcs yet, but I'd like to try it out myself, and Thanks for it!) [...] > Already been done. I did this six months ago... I haven't checked > to see if anyone actually did anything with my patches though. > > ... JG > -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 14:18:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14899 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14880; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA19966; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:16:24 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: neal@pernet.net (Neal Rigney) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:16:24 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Neal Rigney" at Nov 11, 96 03:17:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I tried using the patches, but they have one small problem. My modems > stupidly send a connect message in a way that getty sees as a username. > So it sits at Password: waiting for test, but only getting LCP. The other > times I got it to work(with different modems), it worked like a charm. Turn off result codes. ATZ ATQ1&W Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to dial out, you can use "ATQ0" in your dial string to force the modem to provide result codes for the dialer program. No modem I have ever seen works out of the box correctly with a UNIX host for both in- and outdial applications. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 14:21:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA15207 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA15167; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA19987; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:19:21 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611112219.QAA19987@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:19:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Stesin" at Nov 11, 96 11:48:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Dear Joe, > > wouldn't you mind reminding the URL for your patches, please? > > (It's a pity that this nice functionality seems to be missed > from baseline srcs yet, but I'd like to try it out myself, > and Thanks for it!) > > [...] ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/pub/FreeBSD/alpha/pppgetty.tar.gz for executables for 2.1.0R. ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/pppgetty.tar.gz for source mods, this you will have to figure out yourself (shouldn't be too hard). Look on the list archive for references to it... if you have problems I can dig up some useful dirt. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 14:32:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16131 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from starfire.mn.org (root@starfire.skypoint.net [199.86.32.187]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA16113 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:32:20 -0800 (PST) From: john@starfire.mn.org Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.7.5/1.1) id QAA16305; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:30:37 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611112230.QAA16305@starfire.mn.org> Subject: modems for dial-in/dial-out on FreeBSD(UNIX) (was: PPP/LCP sensing getty) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:30:36 -0600 (CST) Cc: neal@pernet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 11, 96 04:16:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This discussion has generalized beyond PPP/LCP now -- this information is generally useful to anyone supporting dial-in connections, and especially those sharing modems and lines for in and out. In fact, Joe and I ought to prepare something on this for the FAQ, I suspect! > > I tried using the patches, but they have one small problem. My modems > > stupidly send a connect message in a way that getty sees as a username. > > So it sits at Password: waiting for test, but only getting LCP. The other > > times I got it to work(with different modems), it worked like a charm. > > Turn off result codes. > > ATZ > ATQ1&W > > Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to > dial out, you can use "ATQ0" in your dial string to force the modem to > provide result codes for the dialer program. This is good, but if your modem supports something like the "Q2" command in which results are supressed (quiet mode) only in answer mode, this is even better. Then you don't have to issue the "ATQ0" in the dial string or init string to dial out, nor guarrantee that the modem was fully reset on each transition (though doing a reset on the DTR transition is usually a win, anyway). I don't know how many modems support this, but US Robotics Couriers and Sportsters do, and they are quite popular. If your modem doesn't support Q2 or something similar, then Joe's suggestion is the way to go. > No modem I have ever seen works out of the box correctly with a UNIX host > for both in- and outdial applications. Strongly concur! :-) John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 14:35:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16321 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA16313; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (neal@localhost) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA06614; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:27:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:27:38 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Rigney To: Joe Greco cc: john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > Turn off result codes. > > ATZ > ATQ1&W Doh! When I tried putting in the new getty, I racked my brain for how to do this. I looked in the docs for the modems, but of course they read like stereo instructions :). > Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to Already got this going. Thanks. -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 14:56:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17699 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.PII.COM (pii.com [192.77.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17688 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:56:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from PII.COM by PII.COM (4.1/SMI-4.4) id AA27994; Mon, 11 Nov 96 14:55:33 PST Received: by smtp with Microsoft Mail id <3287AEB6@smtp>; Mon, 11 Nov 96 14:54:46 PST From: Robert Clark To: freebsd-isp Subject: RE: RE: PPP/LCP sensing getty Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 14:54:00 PST Message-Id: <3287AEB6@smtp> Encoding: 25 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any chance I could get a copy of the modified getty to go with 2.1R? Thanks, [RC] ---------- From: owner-freebsd-isp To: john Cc: hackers; freebsd-isp Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty Date: Monday, November 11, 1996 1:04PM > I have created a version of getty that watches for the first four > bytes of the LCP leader and exec's pppd (-detach auth) if it sees > it. This allows dialup PPP access to FreeBSD boxes from other > FreeBSD boxes, Windows 3.1, Windows NT, Windows 95, and MAC's > without having to go through the pain of login scripting. I'd like > to make this generally available, but am not sure how best to do > so. Already been done. I did this six months ago... I haven't checked to see if anyone actually did anything with my patches though. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 15:20:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19118 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19111 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA20128; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:18:11 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611112318.RAA20128@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: modems for dial-in/dial-out on FreeBSD(UNIX) (was: PPP/LCP sensing getty) To: john@starfire.mn.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:18:05 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, neal@pernet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611112230.QAA16305@starfire.mn.org> from "john@starfire.mn.org" at Nov 11, 96 04:30:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This discussion has generalized beyond PPP/LCP now -- this information > is generally useful to anyone supporting dial-in connections, and > especially those sharing modems and lines for in and out. In fact, > Joe and I ought to prepare something on this for the FAQ, I suspect! I guess I have the experience :-( I was really into modems and stuff back in Commodore days. I wrote some fairly sophisticated assembly language code for a BBS package that I developed.. totally rewrote console I/O, etc. It was the only BBS software I ever saw where one could drop to "READY.", load, edit, and/or run other programs, and still handle the console and exceptional conditions such as carrier loss correctly... I remember being one of the VERY few people (half a dozen total, they said) who wrote a working bit of code to correctly answer a Volksmodem 1200 baud _dumb_ modem... one had to sit there and twiddle bits in exotic ways. Eccch. I think my real claim to fame was writing a bit of code that sat on the modem port listening for "CONNECT^M", "NO CARRIER^M", etc. as part of the data stream, because one never really knew if what one was seeing on the "control" lines of the modem port was reasonable and accurate... I spent many hours struggling with how the hell to get an AT command set modem to do precisely what I wanted, under all circumstances. :-( I do not consider modems with in band status and control capabilities to be fun. :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( > > > I tried using the patches, but they have one small problem. My modems > > > stupidly send a connect message in a way that getty sees as a username. > > > So it sits at Password: waiting for test, but only getting LCP. The other > > > times I got it to work(with different modems), it worked like a charm. > > > > Turn off result codes. > > > > ATZ > > ATQ1&W > > > > Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to > > dial out, you can use "ATQ0" in your dial string to force the modem to > > provide result codes for the dialer program. > > This is good, but if your modem supports something like the "Q2" > command in which results are supressed (quiet mode) only in answer > mode, this is even better. Then you don't have to issue the "ATQ0" If your modem supports Q2, it probably supports reset on DTR or reset on carrier loss. I won't argue that it is good advice, however... > in the dial string or init string to dial out, nor guarrantee that > the modem was fully reset on each transition (though doing a reset > on the DTR transition is usually a win, anyway). I don't know how > many modems support this, but US Robotics Couriers and Sportsters > do, and they are quite popular. If your modem doesn't support Q2 > or something similar, then Joe's suggestion is the way to go. Junk alert: USR Sportsters. (Fine for casual home use, probably, but crummy if you are an ISP) > > No modem I have ever seen works out of the box correctly with a UNIX host > > for both in- and outdial applications. > > Strongly concur! :-) I have a small database of my "preferred defaults" for a number of varieties of modems.... usually these defaults include things such as shutting off the speaker and setting other parameters to allow for hardware flow control, ATS0=1, disable "+++", etc. I do not guarantee that all of them conform to this 100%, as some of them were done for particular reasons. AT&T Paradyne DataPort 14.4K (my favorite modem of all time) AT&F ATE0L3M0Q1S0=1S2=255S10=220 ATX1&C1&R0\D1\G0 AT&W0 Motorola Power 28.8 (probably identical for Premier/Lifestyle) AT&F ATE0M0Q2S0=1S2=255S10=220 AT&D3&R&S2\K5 AT&W USR Sportster V.34 AT&F1 ATE0L3M0Q2S0=1S2=255S10=220 ATS13.0=1 AT&W USR Courier V.34 AT&F1 ATE0L3M0Q2S0=1S2=255S10=220 ATS13.0=1S32=8S34.4=1 AT&W Telebit Trailblazer Plus (probably not quite conformant) AT&FS50=0S51=5S52=2S54=3S55=3S58=2 ATS66=1S68=255S95=2X1Q0E1 ATM0S0=1S2=255S10=220S64=1S92=1 AT&W Zoom 28.8 V.FC (don't ask why I have two of these - they are junk) AT&F ATE0M0Q0S0=1S2=255S10=220 AT&C1&D2%E2 AT&W0 I would only personally buy the Paradyne 14.4's, the Motorola 28.8's, or the Couriers. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 15:28:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19898 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19887; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA18862; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:15:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611112315.QAA18862@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: neal@pernet.net (Neal Rigney) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:15:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Neal Rigney" at Nov 11, 96 03:17:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My modems > stupidly send a connect message in a way that getty sees as a username. > So it sits at Password: waiting for test, but only getting LCP. The other > times I got it to work(with different modems), it worked like a charm. Are you sure they are sending the message after raising DCD? It's been standard for years to send the connect messages *before* raising DCD. What might be happening is one of: o DCD is not set to follow remote carrier (modem problem) o DCD is not really DCD (cable problem) o You are using non-modem-control port for mode (/dev problem) o You are using a serial card that does not flush input buffer contents on off-to-on DCD transition on modem control ports (device driver problem) o Your modem is truly, honestly *bogus* (modem problem) I've never seen a truly bogus modem that supported the AT command set (the AT&T 4024 and the Tandy DC-15 are non-AT command set bogus modems; and the AT&T cn be firmware upgraded). You might also consider that, unless you are running the bogus uugetty (which should open with a flag to hang the open pending a "ring indicate" signal, and timeout on no DCD raid within XXX seconds of a ring indicate), response codes from the modem should be turned off anyway. They are only really useful for dialout progress reporting (before you tell me that you need them to recognize baud on a uugetty, let me point you to the RS232C and Bell 103C standards on external clocks). In any case, a uugetty or mgetty or whatever should flush input buffers before putting up a login, and should delay 1 second to ensure input buffer flush occurs, in any case, before outputting a prompt, in case the modem ignores RTS from the computer prior to raising its own DCD --- the "bogus modem" case, above). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 15:30:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20060 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20051; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA18871; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:18:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199611112318.QAA18871@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:18:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: neal@pernet.net, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Nov 11, 96 04:16:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Turn off result codes. > > ATZ > ATQ1&W > > Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to > dial out, you can use "ATQ0" in your dial string to force the modem to > provide result codes for the dialer program. Ugh... a mechanistic answer. 8-) 8-). The "reset as if powered off then on for on-to-off DCD transition" is usually Hayes "AT&D2". The "DCD follows remote carrier is usually "AT&C1". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 15:30:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA20099 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA20012 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (fluffy.aros.net [205.164.111.2]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.7.6/Unknown) with ESMTP id QAA09197; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fluffy.aros.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA01390; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:29:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199611112329.QAA01390@fluffy.aros.net> To: Michael Slater cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Converting linux shadow passwords In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:56:09 +0800." Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:29:46 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am in the process of switching from Linux to FreeBSD, and am > wondering if their is a method of Converting the Linux password/shadow > file into a FreeBSD password file, other than manually re-entering every > user ? You have to be set up using DES passwords on your FreeBSD system. There's a FAQ entry that tells you how to do this, I believe. Once you've done that, use a script like this, which will print out the freebsd-style master.passwd file. Don't forget to run pwd_mkdb afterwords. #!/bin/perl # Copyright 1996 David G. Andersen. All rights reserved. No warranty # is expressed or implied for the fitness of this program for any purpose. $shadow = "/etc/shadow"; $passwd = "/etc/passwd"; $output = "npasswd"; umask 077; open(SHADOW, $shadow) || die "Could not open shadow file\n"; while () { ($name, $enc) = split(/:/); $PASS{$name} = $enc; } close(SHADOW); open(PASSWD, $passwd) || die "Could not open passwd file\n"; open(OUT, ">$output") || die "Could not open output file\n"; while () { chop; ($uname, $blah, $uid, $gid, $gecos, $homedir, $shell) = split(/:/); printf(OUT "%s:%s:%d:%d::0:0:%s:%s:%s\n", $uname, $PASS{$uname}, $uid, $gid, $gecos, $homedir, $shell); } From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 16:39:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01546 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from bullfrog.ecpnet.com (root@bullfrog.ecpnet.com [204.246.64.212]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01532 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from raistlin@localhost) by bullfrog.ecpnet.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA00852; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:39:29 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:39:28 +0000 () From: Justen Stepka To: Robert Clark cc: freebsd-isp Subject: RE: RE: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: <3287AEB6@smtp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Would you simple send that getty attached to an email on this mailing list? On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Robert Clark wrote: > > > Any chance I could get a copy of the modified getty to go with 2.1R? > > > Thanks, [RC] > ---------- > From: owner-freebsd-isp > To: john > Cc: hackers; freebsd-isp > Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty > Date: Monday, November 11, 1996 1:04PM > > > I have created a version of getty that watches for the first four > > bytes of the LCP leader and exec's pppd (-detach auth) if it sees > > it. This allows dialup PPP access to FreeBSD boxes from other > > FreeBSD boxes, Windows 3.1, Windows NT, Windows 95, and MAC's > > without having to go through the pain of login scripting. I'd like > > to make this generally available, but am not sure how best to do > > so. > > Already been done. I did this six months ago... I haven't checked > to see if anyone actually did anything with my patches though. > > ... JG > From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 16:40:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA01646 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01641 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24257; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:15:37 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611120015.SAA24257@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Michael Dillon" , Cc: Subject: Re: Telcos Owe ISPs Millions Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:42:49 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Michael Dillon > To: iap@vma.cc.nd.edu > Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Telcos Owe ISPs Millions > Date: Monday, November 11, 1996 3:14 PM > > > On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Martin G. Bayerle wrote: > > > IMPORTANT. Check your phone bills for your dedicated modem lines. If > > you're paying a "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (or equivalent) on your > > modem lines, you're telephone company owes you money . . . > > Do any of you actually pay this charge on your phone bills? I have been... what gives? GTE kinda told me "pay it or you kinda lose your dialtone and we will re-direct your numbers to gte.net"... So, whats the line of action for this? What are we calling "dedicated" anyways? JS --- Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas Voice: (409) 687-9066 http://www.intrastar.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 17:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03352 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03340 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA22478; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:23:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19159; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:04:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:04:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: Justen Stepka cc: Robert Clark , freebsd-isp Subject: RE: RE: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Justen Stepka wrote: > Would you simple send that getty attached to an email on this mailing list? NO!!! PLEASE DON'T!!!! Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 19:08:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA10348 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bullfrog.ecpnet.com (root@bullfrog.ecpnet.com [204.246.64.212]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10340 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from raistlin@localhost) by bullfrog.ecpnet.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id VAA00946; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:08:53 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:08:52 +0000 () From: Justen Stepka To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: NIS/YP with FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Currently I am running a small local network. On this network I have a Linux NIS server with shadow support in the NIS server. I am wondering how I can get FreeBSD to use the passwd.byname for user info, and get the shadow.byname for DES passwds? I have this working without shadow support but I don't want the users on the server viewing the passwd file with the passwd feilds.. Justen Stepka raistlin@ecpnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 19:17:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA10784 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from bullfrog.ecpnet.com (root@bullfrog.ecpnet.com [204.246.64.212]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10777 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from raistlin@localhost) by bullfrog.ecpnet.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id VAA01098; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:18:18 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:18:14 +0000 () From: Justen Stepka To: freebsd-isp@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: NIS/YP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Currently I am running a small local network. On this network I have a Linux NIS server with shadow support in the NIS server. I am wondering how I can get FreeBSD to use the passwd.byname for user info, and get the shadow.byname for DES passwds? I have this working without shadow support but I don't want the users on the server viewing the passwd file with the passwd feilds.. Justen Stepka raistlin@ecpnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 21:31:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA22932 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from avalon.imagixx.net (root@avalon.imagixx.net [206.31.232.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22927 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.31.232.10] (mgb.imagixx.net [206.31.232.10]) by avalon.imagixx.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA19613; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:26:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:26:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199611120526.AAA19613@avalon.imagixx.net> Subject: Re: Telcos Owe ISPs Millions From: "Martin G. Bayerle" To: "Jacob Suter" cc: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Martin G. Bayerle wrote: >> >> > IMPORTANT. Check your phone bills for your dedicated modem >lines. If >> > you're paying a "Federal Subscriber Line Charge" (or equivalent) >on your >> > modem lines, you're telephone company owes you money . . . >> >> Do any of you actually pay this charge on your phone bills? > >I have been... what gives? GTE kinda told me "pay it or you kinda >lose your dialtone and we will re-direct your numbers to gte.net"... > >So, whats the line of action for this? What are we calling >"dedicated" anyways? > >JS We'll sue their ass . . . . We can get your refund, if you're an IDEA member (and if you want us to). MGB/IDEA From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 21:50:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA23944 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:50:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23906 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA23613; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:56:24 GMT Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:56:24 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199611121356.NAA23613@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Internet/Intranet gateway? Cc: steve@cioeserv.cioe.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have two ethernet running in my office. One is connected with Internet. The other is my Intranet. All use FreeBSD2.1.5 as its server. Since I have not enough IPs, the hosts in my intranet are assigned with unofficial IPs. Now, I am planning to setup one host (FreeBSD2.1.5 box) as a gateway so the hosts in the intranet can ftp some file from the internet. But I really need help on how to do that even when I have connected the two nets by make their hub connected. Use gateway? gated? dual home host? IP alias? Which one will work or is that possible??? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 22:34:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA26045 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA26033 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA27009 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:50:05 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA21866 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:30:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:30:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Internet/Intranet gateway? In-Reply-To: <199611121356.NAA23613@npc.haplink.co.cn> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, xiyuan qian wrote: > Hi, I have two ethernet running in my office. One is connected with > Internet. The other is my Intranet. All use FreeBSD2.1.5 as its server. > Since I have not enough IPs, the hosts in my intranet are assigned with > unofficial IPs. Now, I am planning to setup one host (FreeBSD2.1.5 box) > as a gateway so the hosts in the intranet can ftp some file from the > internet. But I really need help on how to do that even when I have > connected the two nets by make their hub connected. My home LAN is using private network addresses from RFC 1918 and is connected to the INternet via a FreeBSD server. The FreeBSD box runs the TIS Firewalls Toolkit from ftp.tis.com (make sure you download *BOTH* the source and the documentation tar files) and I also run the Squid caching proxy http://www.nlanr.net/Squid Squid provide basic WWW, ftp and gopher access to the LAN. I also use the TIS FWTK tn-gw and ftp-gw for telnet and ftp through the firewall. NNTP access is supplied by running a plug-gw through the firewall to the real NNTP server. I also have plug-gw's to let AOL and CIS clients work through the firewall. Access to Realaudio is supplied by the raproxy available from the same place as RealAudio is. Email is handled entirely on the FreeBSD box which acts as a mail server. I also run Apache to provide a very low volume website. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Nov 11 22:50:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA26811 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26782; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01455; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:50:26 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id HAA11669; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:50:00 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.2/keltia-uucp-2.9) id HAA26728; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:37:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:37:34 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty References: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.50.05 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2686 In-Reply-To: <199611112216.QAA19966@brasil.moneng.mei.com>; from Joe Greco on Nov 11, 1996 16:16:24 -0600 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Joe Greco: > Also set the modem to do a reset on DTR transition. Then if you need to > dial out, you can use "ATQ0" in your dial string to force the modem to > provide result codes for the dialer program. Some modems provide an ATQ2 command just for that. Silent when answering and verbose when calling. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #28: Sun Nov 10 13:37:41 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 01:22:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05594 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA05587 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA07383; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:21:51 -0800 (PST) To: Justen Stepka cc: Robert Clark , freebsd-isp Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:39:28 GMT." Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:21:51 -0800 Message-ID: <7381.847790511@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Would you simple send that getty attached to an email on this mailing list? Uh.. Please don't! :-( I don't think that everyone else wants to see it quite so badly, and far better to simply put it up for FTP somewhere and quote a URL. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 07:20:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29807 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:20:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29800 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00533; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:18:03 GMT Message-Id: <199611121518.PAA00533@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: software uploads To: linux-isp@pcg.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:18:03 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have developed an ISP customer administration package with things like a nice customisable front end and online registration etc. which we have been promising to release for quite some time now. Well were just about ready to release it and We want to make it available for ftp. Can anyone offer any advice on finding a number of ftp sites that we can upload it to. BTW you can check out the software at http://www.cablenet.net/ regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 07:37:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00587 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from tchnet.tchnet.com (tchnet.tchnet.com [198.109.196.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00574 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnet@localhost) by tchnet.tchnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA03622; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:38:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:38:13 -0500 (EST) From: "R. A. Nethercott" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: System Lock! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a question for you BSD gurus! My system is continuously locking up on Sunday afternoon and it does not give me any information to attempt to fix it. Now, it is crashing more often, and I still do not know where to look for a log file to get information. /var/log/messages does not contain any relevant info, and I am stumped. I seem to be getting Interupt-level overflows (200 or more at a time) and am not sure what is causing it. I know I have not given much info, but I am not sure what I should be giving. Please Help! Roy R A Nethercott System Administrator Technet, Inc rnet@tchnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 09:20:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06789 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06744 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.gds.de (dornroesle.plusnet.de [194.231.79.4]) by gds.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA03012 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:19:44 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611121719.SAA03012@gds.de> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Gresek" Organization: Plus.Net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 18:18:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: Whois DB X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Richard Gresek" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, I=B4d like to install a whois-database. I have searched through the ports and packages but did not found netiher a whois database nor a whois gateway. What is the usual way? Is there a special database for whois or can I take any and install a special whois-interface? Thanks Richard +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald : 60596 Frankfurt : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de : Fax : +49 69 610238 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 10:03:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA09854 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09835 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id KAA18862; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06714; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:03:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611121803.KAA06714@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "R. A. Nethercott" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Lock! In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 12 Nov 96 10:38:13 -0500. Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:03:25 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have a question for you BSD gurus! My system is continuously locking >up on Sunday afternoon and it does not give me any information to attempt >to fix it. Now, it is crashing more often, and I still do not know where [...] Are you running X? If so, leave your system at the virtual text screen 0 when you're done with it, and you may see what you're looking for right on your monitor, the next time it hangs. The kernel debugger won't automatically switch you out of X and back to a text vty, because it doesn't know how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 10:19:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11028 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tchnet.tchnet.com (tchnet.tchnet.com [198.109.196.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10996 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnet@localhost) by tchnet.tchnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA09138; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:19:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:19:11 -0500 (EST) From: "R. A. Nethercott" To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Lock! In-Reply-To: <199611121803.KAA06714@MindBender.serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > >I have a question for you BSD gurus! My system is continuously locking > >up on Sunday afternoon and it does not give me any information to attempt > >to fix it. Now, it is crashing more often, and I still do not know where > [...] > > Are you running X? If so, leave your system at the virtual text > screen 0 when you're done with it, and you may see what you're looking > for right on your monitor, the next time it hangs. The kernel > debugger won't automatically switch you out of X and back to a text > vty, because it doesn't know how. For everyones information, I am not running X. We are just a small ISP running pppd dial-up connections. I hope that helps a little more. Thanks again, Roy R A Nethercott System Administrator Technet, Inc rnet@tchnet.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 11:23:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15169 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.cioe.com (news.cioe.com [204.120.165.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15136 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by news.cioe.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA07649; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:23:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:23:51 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199611121923.OAA07649@news.cioe.com> To: isp@freebsd.org, xiyuan@npc.haplink.co.cn Subject: Re: Internet/Intranet gateway? Cc: steve@cioeserv.cioe.com Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, I have two ethernet running in my office. One is connected with Internet. The other is my Intranet. All use FreeBSD2.1.5 as its server. Since I have not enough IPs, the hosts in my intranet are assigned with unofficial IPs. Now, I am planning to setup one host (FreeBSD2.1.5 box) as a gateway so the hosts in the intranet can ftp some file from the internet. But I really need help on how to do that even when I have connected the two nets by make their hub connected. > Use gateway? gated? dual home host? IP alias? Which one will work or is that possible??? > If I'm understanding your message correctly, your going to need to use a proxy server running on your 2.1.5box. The IP addresses behind that box aren't routable (unofficial IPs). -Steve From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 12:49:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA26292 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA26283; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA22023; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:48:26 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611122048.OAA22023@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: sol.net problems To: hubs@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:48:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, My core router (FreeBSD 2.1.0R, half a dozen Ethernet cards, etc) has been blowing chunks since late morning. A workaround will be in place by 18:00 CST until the machine can be replaced or repaired. A gross hack is currently providing connectivity to my services network, where {ftp,mail}.freebsd.sol.net live, but any other services may be temporarily interrupted until this problem is corrected. The problem is compounded by the fact that I am not able to get down to the office until after 17:00 CST. My apologies. This brings up a side issue. I have been talking for months about building in more redundancy to my networking infrastructure. With Ethernet stuff being dirt cheap, there is no reason for this kind of thing... I am seriously intending to start running redundant Ethernets and stuff to all key systems. I believe that if I start using OSPF internally, this should be practical and possible, but I am no GateD whiz, and I don't know how to go about this. I did buy "Routing in the Internet" but haven't made a serious dent in trying to understand the OSPF routing stuff yet. (Issues never come up at convenient times). What I would like to do, best case, is something like this... Net 206.55.64.0/28 Net 206.55.64.16/28 ---------- ---------- ---------- b |---| Router | ------------| Box 1 |------------ | Router |---| b b | ---------- / ---------- \ ---------- | b 1 | / \ | 2 | ----------/ ---------- \---------- | |---| Router |---------------| Box 2 |---------------| Router |---| | ---------- ---------- ---------- | Obviously not a complete net view... Right now, "Box 1" and "Box 2" are connected to a common ethernet which is in turn connected to my core router, which connects via my backbone Ethernet to a border router. What I would like to do is to set up a second core router... the obvious way is to simply connect it to the current "common ethernet" for Box 1 and Box 2. However, that does not protect against a failed hub or a bad wire. Running a separate wire from each core router to the box seems absurd at first until you realize it can be done with no hubs, and good hubs being rather pricey, this starts to look attractive. Any comments from OSPF gurus? ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 14:12:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00468 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00445 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedb (cedb.DPCSYS.COM [165.90.143.3]) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.6.10/DPC-1.0) with SMTP id OAA04384; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:09:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow X-Sender: dan@cedb To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Whois DB In-Reply-To: <199611121719.SAA03012@gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > I=B4d like to install a whois-database. Goto http://rs.internic.net/rwhois.html. There is (was) a minor bug in this version a month or so ago which generated zombies cause they had no BSD code to handle sig child. Easy enough to fix and the changes are supposed to be in the next version. Dan --=20 Dan Busarow 714 443 417= 2 DPC Systems dan@dpcsys.co= m Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 8= 2 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 17:10:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15814 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA15809; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from base.jnx.com (base.jnx.com [208.197.169.238]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14659; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pst@localhost) by base.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA14152; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:07:47 -0800 (PST) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Cc: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin), john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty References: <199611112219.QAA19987@brasil.moneng.mei.com> From: Paul Traina Date: 12 Nov 1996 17:07:46 -0800 In-Reply-To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com's message of 11 Nov 96 22:19:21 GMT Message-ID: <7ysp6eyf8d.fsf@base.jnx.com> Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.25/XEmacs 19.14 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) writes: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/pppgetty.tar.gz for source > mods, this you will have to figure out yourself (shouldn't be too > hard). Ask and you shall receive. Just committed to -current. I haven't committed ppplogin yet, since it appears as if pppd can handle this directly under certain circumstances... From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Nov 12 22:03:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA27204 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from lithuania.it.earthlink.net (lithuania-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA27199; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (max1-800-21.earthlink.net [206.149.205.22]) by lithuania.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10274; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:53:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3289605F.325@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 21:45:03 -0800 From: Steven Swanson X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ziggy69@earthlink.net CC: Joe Greco , Andrew Stesin , john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty References: <199611112219.QAA19987@brasil.moneng.mei.com> <7ysp6eyf8d.fsf@base.jnx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina wrote: > > jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) writes: > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/pppgetty.tar.gz for source > > mods, this you will have to figure out yourself (shouldn't be too > > hard). > > Ask and you shall receive. Just committed to -current. I haven't > committed ppplogin yet, since it appears as if pppd can handle this > directly under certain circumstances...Please remove me from your mailing lists. Thank you From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 01:40:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA04953 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua ([194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04891; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA36994; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:37:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:37:56 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: Paul Traina cc: Joe Greco , john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty In-Reply-To: <7ysp6eyf8d.fsf@base.jnx.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks a bunch! On 12 Nov 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Ask and you shall receive. Just committed to -current. [...] -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 03:36:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA09986 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA09969 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cantina.clinet.fi (root@cantina.clinet.fi [194.100.0.15]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.6/8.6.4) with ESMTP id NAA16379 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:35:52 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by cantina.clinet.fi (8.7.5/8.6.4) id NAA13347; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:35:51 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:35:51 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199611131135.NAA13347@cantina.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: News server disks Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are upgrading our news server, but I have trouble obtaining faster quantum disks (Atlas). Slower fireball 3G disks and seagates I can get my hands on. So, question, which one is better: 7 * 3G quantum fireball (4 for spool, 1 for overview data) 2 * 2G + 4 * 4G seagate (hawk or faster) quantums have sort-of-working write cache, which seagates do not, but seek time is slower. Seagate option is considerably more expensive. Having more quantums would probably compensate for slower seek times, and better (existing) write cache would be helpful. Any experience with fireballs, are they of any use ? -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 04:48:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA14261 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA14255 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id GAA22879; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:46:50 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611131246.GAA22879@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: News server disks To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:46:49 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611131135.NAA13347@cantina.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Nov 13, 96 01:35:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We are upgrading our news server, but I have trouble obtaining faster > quantum disks (Atlas). Slower fireball 3G disks and seagates I can get my > hands on. So, question, which one is better: > > 7 * 3G quantum fireball (4 for spool, 1 for overview data) > > 2 * 2G + 4 * 4G seagate (hawk or faster) > > quantums have sort-of-working write cache, which seagates do not, but seek > time is slower. Seagate option is considerably more expensive. Having > more quantums would probably compensate for slower seek times, and better > (existing) write cache would be helpful. Any experience with fireballs, > are they of any use ? The Fireballs are slooooooooooow. Also I do not like the implication behind the name.... The new Hawk-2 series drives appear and feel very fast. I've been using these since the beginning of summer with excellent luck. They come with write back enabled, I don't know if this means that it "really" works or not, but I have not had any problems. I recently ordered 18 of the 1G drives for a new news server. At around $320/ea USD, they are about as expensive a solution as you will find, but they are also a fast solution. My advice? If you can't go any smaller, at least order 10 Hawk-2 2GB drives (ST32155N)... ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 09:13:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29006 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cliff.fd1.uc.edu (cliff.fd1.uc.edu [129.137.244.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28999 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:13:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from Default (max1-800-21.earthlink.net [206.149.205.22]) by cliff.fd1.uc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA11492 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:16:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:16:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611131716.MAA11492@cliff.fd1.uc.edu> X-Sender: whatname@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Steve Swanson Subject: MAILING lIST Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please remove my name from your mailing list. Thank You. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 09:19:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29214 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA29206 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02868; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:51:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611131651.KAA02868@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: , Subject: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:16:14 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, while the telcos beat their heads into the wall trying to figure out some way of getting their cooshie monopolies back, I was thinking... Fiber, 100 megabit into homes, mbone, etc etc. Cable company sucks, pots quality sucks, (power sucks but I don't want to put a nuclear generator in - its kinda expensive).. What if I put fiber on the poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to the net... I have no idea what kind of bandwidth I'd be talking for say DSS quality A/V by itself for one channel... It'd need to have a few channels all broadcasting at once and I have no idea what kind of bandwidth that is going to take.. "Yes, I'd like to watch that movie in 1024x768x16.8M.." JS --- Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas Voice: (409) 687-9066 http://www.intrastar.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 09:45:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01060 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US (dixon.delong.sj.ca.us [192.159.10.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01033 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id JAA02172; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:45:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:45:38 -0800 From: owen@DeLong.SJ.CA.US (Owen DeLong) Message-Id: <199611131745.JAA02172@dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US> To: isp@freebsd.org, portmaster-users@livingston.com, jsuter@intrastar.net Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, while the telcos beat their heads into the wall trying to figure > out some way of getting their cooshie monopolies back, I was > thinking... > > Fiber, 100 megabit into homes, mbone, etc etc. Cable company sucks, > pots quality sucks, (power sucks but I don't want to put a nuclear > generator in - its kinda expensive).. What if I put fiber on the > poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex > ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to > the net... > How do you propose to acquire the right-of-way to stick the fiber up there. Generally, the company that puts the poles up charges kind of steep rent for space on them. As to the microwave part, you'll probably come out looking like a burnt bag of popcorn or something. :-) > I have no idea what kind of bandwidth I'd be talking for say DSS > quality A/V by itself for one channel... It'd need to have a few > channels all broadcasting at once and I have no idea what kind of > bandwidth that is going to take.. > > "Yes, I'd like to watch that movie in 1024x768x16.8M.." > It's surprisingly less bandwidth than you may think. If I recall, a DSS channel is around 3-4.5 Mbps. However, that's strictly downlink. Uplink bandwidth costs major $$$ > JS > > > --- > Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas > Voice: (409) 687-9066 > http://www.intrastar.net/ > Owen From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 09:52:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01570 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01561 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA23456; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:51:23 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611131751.LAA23456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame To: jsuter@intrastar.net (Jacob Suter) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:51:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611131651.KAA02868@intrastar.net> from "Jacob Suter" at Nov 13, 96 11:16:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, while the telcos beat their heads into the wall trying to figure > out some way of getting their cooshie monopolies back, I was > thinking... > > Fiber, 100 megabit into homes, mbone, etc etc. Cable company sucks, > pots quality sucks, (power sucks but I don't want to put a nuclear > generator in - its kinda expensive).. What if I put fiber on the > poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex > ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to > the net... > > I have no idea what kind of bandwidth I'd be talking for say DSS > quality A/V by itself for one channel... It'd need to have a few > channels all broadcasting at once and I have no idea what kind of > bandwidth that is going to take.. > > "Yes, I'd like to watch that movie in 1024x768x16.8M.." Well, let's see. 16M color support would require 3 bytes per bit, and at 786432 bits per screen and 30 frames per second that is 70,778,880 bytes per second. The MPEG advocates will try to convince me that they can reduce that by an order of magnitude, so at 7,077,888 bytes per second, that is hypothetically possible from a strictly network bandwidth point of view. To decode it in real time, however, and display it, would probably require a very very fast machine... Lower resolutions might be much more workable. Conventional television is much lower resolution than 1024x768. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 09:56:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01824 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rmc1.crocker.com (root@rmc1.crocker.com [204.97.12.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01814 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 09:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rmc1.crocker.com (matthew@rmc1.crocker.com [204.97.12.50]) by rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA04529; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:53:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:53:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew S. Crocker" To: Jacob Suter cc: isp@freebsd.org, portmaster-users@livingston.com Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-Reply-To: <199611131651.KAA02868@intrastar.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HDTV compressed using MPEG is 6.3Mbps which fits real nice into ADSL. Video-on-demand is a one way feed. -Matt -Matthew S Crocker "The mask, given time, comes Crocker Communications to be the face itself." -anonymous Internet Division Phone (413) 585-5164 PO BOX 710 Fax (413) 587-3352 Greenfield, MA 01302-0710 Email matthew@crocker.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Jacob Suter wrote: > So, while the telcos beat their heads into the wall trying to figure > out some way of getting their cooshie monopolies back, I was > thinking... > > Fiber, 100 megabit into homes, mbone, etc etc. Cable company sucks, > pots quality sucks, (power sucks but I don't want to put a nuclear > generator in - its kinda expensive).. What if I put fiber on the > poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex > ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to > the net... > > I have no idea what kind of bandwidth I'd be talking for say DSS > quality A/V by itself for one channel... It'd need to have a few > channels all broadcasting at once and I have no idea what kind of > bandwidth that is going to take.. > > "Yes, I'd like to watch that movie in 1024x768x16.8M.." > > JS > > > --- > Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas > Voice: (409) 687-9066 > http://www.intrastar.net/ > From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 10:50:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05744 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05733 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22590 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:06:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA09663 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:46:57 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-Reply-To: <199611131751.LAA23456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > What if I put fiber on the > > poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex > > ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to > > the net... If you have no experience with outside plant and your investors have less than $10 million dollars, then forget this idea. Stick to inside plant better known as LAN's and ISP networks. Outside plant is a whole different animal. Greater distances, weatherproofing, strain relief from the weight of the cable plus wet snow and birds perching on it, noise ingress, etc..... Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 10:52:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05931 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05926 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (neal@localhost) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA08033; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:46:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:46:42 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Rigney To: Owen DeLong cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, portmaster-users@livingston.com, jsuter@intrastar.net Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-Reply-To: <199611131745.JAA02172@dixon.DeLong.SJ.CA.US> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Owen DeLong wrote: [snip] > How do you propose to acquire the right-of-way to stick the fiber up > there. Generally, the company that puts the poles up charges kind of > steep rent for space on them. > > > --- > > Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas > > Voice: (409) 687-9066 > > http://www.intrastar.net/ Well, those of us using Entergy as their Power providor can rent space for a nickel a month per pole. Around here(Southeast Texas), they own the poles. They'll even contract cheap to install and maintain the stuff. -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 11:07:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07090 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (jeff@mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07074 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jeff@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id NAA12106; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:12:11 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:12:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeff.Lynch-JORSM.Internet" To: Michael Dillon cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Not to mention squirrels like to chew through cable. ========================================================================= Jeffrey A. Lynch, President JORSM Internet email: jeff@jorsm.com Northwest Indiana's Full-Service Provider Voice: (219)322-2180 927 Sheffield Avenue, Dyer, IN 46311 Autoresponse: info@jorsm.com http://www.jorsm.com On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > What if I put fiber on the > > > poles, and dropped into people's homes at say, 100 megabit duplex > > > ethernet? Then microwave myself back to the real world to connect to > > > the net... > > If you have no experience with outside plant and your investors have less > than $10 million dollars, then forget this idea. Stick to inside plant > better known as LAN's and ISP networks. > > Outside plant is a whole different animal. Greater distances, > weatherproofing, strain relief from the weight of the cable plus wet snow > and birds perching on it, noise ingress, etc..... > > Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting > Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com > From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 11:59:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA10282 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10275 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07308; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:58:07 -0800 (PST) To: Joe Greco cc: jsuter@intrastar.net (Jacob Suter), isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:51:22 CST." <199611131751.LAA23456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:58:07 -0800 Message-ID: <7306.847915087@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > To decode it in real time, however, and display it, would probably > require a very very fast machine... Naw, just some dedicated hardware. My CD-I will do real-time MPEG decoding and it simply requires a module in the back which contains 2 motorola DSPs. Picture quality is excellent, *depending on how well the source was compressed*. Apparently it costs a bit more to do it right and takes more computational time, but when that's the case the visual quality is (to my novice eyes, anyway) indistinguishable from an SVHS tape when played on my Sony 27" multisystem TV. On some of my earlier CD-I movies you can occasionally see jaggies, but even so you've got to be looking for them. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 12:11:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA11536 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA11531 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA23742; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:09:52 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611132009.OAA23742@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:09:51 -0600 (CST) Cc: jsuter@intrastar.net, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7306.847915087@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 13, 96 11:58:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > To decode it in real time, however, and display it, would probably > > require a very very fast machine... > > Naw, just some dedicated hardware. My CD-I will do real-time MPEG > decoding and it simply requires a module in the back which contains 2 > motorola DSPs. Picture quality is excellent, *depending on how well > the source was compressed*. Apparently it costs a bit more to do it > right and takes more computational time, but when that's the case the > visual quality is (to my novice eyes, anyway) indistinguishable from > an SVHS tape when played on my Sony 27" multisystem TV. On some of my > earlier CD-I movies you can occasionally see jaggies, but even so > you've got to be looking for them. Hi Jordan, I must confess that I have not been following the technology that closely, but I was wondering what the resolution is. The last I heard, most "real time MPEG" stuff worked at standard TV resolutions (or only mildly better) and was pricey as all heck. Since computational time should be proportional to the resolution of the display, it should be much easier to do a 320 * 200 display (64000 pixels, and at 16 bit depth that's 128Kbytes of data) as opposed to a 1024 * 768 display (786432 pixels, and at 24 bit depth that's 2.4Mbytes of data). Tossing the latter amount of data around a machine at a frame rate of 30 per second would require a pretty fast system... and I am skeptical that there is anything commercially available that is fast enough... but I would certainly agree that the lower resolutions are probably "practical and affordable" these days. I would be pleased to discover I am wrong ;-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 12:37:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14217 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14212 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA07576; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:35:12 -0800 (PST) To: Joe Greco cc: jsuter@intrastar.net, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Nov 1996 14:09:51 CST." <199611132009.OAA23742@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:35:12 -0800 Message-ID: <7574.847917312@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I must confess that I have not been following the technology that > closely, but I was wondering what the resolution is. Standard PAL resolution - we're not talking HDTV here, simply a way of playing movies from a CD on your TV (and CDs take up much less space than VHS tape, are more robust, don't stretch or get eaten by your neighbor's mutant Croatian VCR, etc etc etc.). I think the thing that's really blocked this technology from taking off in the home consumer market is the fact that most movies require two CDs, and fat, lazy american consumers don't like having to get up in the middle of the movie and swap CDs. Now that the high density CDs are coming in (Walnut Creek CDROM is getting some of the first writers for them, in fact) this could change significantly and I could easily see the entire "I Claudius" PBS special fitting onto a single 4GB CDROM. :-) > The last I heard, most "real time MPEG" stuff worked at standard TV > resolutions (or only mildly better) and was pricey as all heck. Not pricey at all, actually. You can buy MPEG decoder boards for around $200 now, though be careful to avoid the "Real Magic" MPEG video cards as they are complete and utter crap. I was so disgusted with mine, not to mention their deceptive advertising practices (nowhere do they note that the card will work with *one* and only *one* brand of CDROM - it takes a call to their tech support department and several hours on hold to learn that tidbit), that I simply threw mine in the trash. Wish I'd saved it though - I'd have taken it to the new rifle range I found which allows you to set up your own types of targets just so long as you clean up after yourself. :-) Thankfully, there are other cards on the market now. > Since computational time should be proportional to the resolution of the > display, it should be much easier to do a 320 * 200 display (64000 pixels, > and at 16 bit depth that's 128Kbytes of data) as opposed to a 1024 * 768 > display (786432 pixels, and at 24 bit depth that's 2.4Mbytes of data). Well, PAL is somewhat higher than this and while the frame rate of my CD-I is unknown, there's no perceivable flicker and I'm pretty sensitive to video refresh rates below 25FPS. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 12:44:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14626 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14612 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.gds.de (dornroesle.plusnet.de [194.231.79.4]) by gds.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA09968 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:43:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611132043.VAA09968@gds.de> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Gresek" Organization: Plus.Net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:42:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: cannot login X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Richard Gresek" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our /etc/pwd.db crashed somehow. Now, nobody can login. Unfortunately even the root password does not work. How can I boot the system in single user mode to be able to login without a password? Richard +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald : 60596 Frankfurt : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de : Fax : +49 69 610238 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 13:55:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19312 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19301 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:55:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id IAA01968; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:55:03 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:55:03 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cannot login In-Reply-To: <199611132043.VAA09968@gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Richard Gresek wrote: > Our /etc/pwd.db crashed somehow. > > Now, nobody can login. Unfortunately even the root password does not > work. > > How can I boot the system in single user mode to be able to login > without a password? boot: -s # mount -a (mounts filesystems rw - before this / is mounted ro) # cd /etc # /usr/bin/head master.passwd If it looks OK, # /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb -p master.passwd (rebuilds the passwd dbs) cheers, Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 15:48:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26238 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26231 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.gds.de (dornroesle.plusnet.de [194.231.79.4]) by gds.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA16231 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:48:42 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611132348.AAA16231@gds.de> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Gresek" Organization: Plus.Net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:47:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: inn: no_space2 X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Richard Gresek" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, thanks for the help I=B4ve got from this list for the installation of inn. Now, inn is up and running and gets his feed. But when I try to connect with a news-client from the PC, the PC gives me the message "503 NNTP server unavailable". The FreeBSD host says: Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de connect Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de internal no_space2 "..." Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de internal no_space2 "..." Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de cant getgrouplist Undefin= ed error: 0 Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de exit articles0 groups 0 Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de times user 0.014 system 0= .007 elapsed 0.014 Can somebody help? Tahnks Richard +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Plus.Net Internet PoP fuer : Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 Frankfurt & Westerwald : 60596 Frankfurt : Tel.: +49 69 61991275 http://www.plusnet.de : Fax : +49 69 610238 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 19:10:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA07839 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruz.isle.net (root@cruz.isle.net [204.140.227.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07757 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from john (router2port21.isle.net [204.140.227.214]) by cruz.isle.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA09076 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:08:57 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961114030634.00943980@isle.net> X-Sender: johns@isle.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:06:34 -0800 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org From: John Scharles Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I looked in "ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/" for the pppgetty source but didn't see it there.....is it old enough to walk on its own? :) At 04:19 PM 11/11/96 -0600, you wrote: >> Dear Joe, >> >> wouldn't you mind reminding the URL for your patches, please? >> >> (It's a pity that this nice functionality seems to be missed >> from baseline srcs yet, but I'd like to try it out myself, >> and Thanks for it!) >> >> [...] > >ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/pub/FreeBSD/alpha/pppgetty.tar.gz for >executables for 2.1.0R. > >ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/pppgetty.tar.gz for source >mods, this you will have to figure out yourself (shouldn't be too >hard). > >Look on the list archive for references to it... if you have problems >I can dig up some useful dirt. > >... JG > > John Scharles From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 23:14:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA19908 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:14:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA19902 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA14458 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:15:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:15:14 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Decision in Router Purchase Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings everyone, We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Nov 13 23:32:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA20673 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20667 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA10032; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:31:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611140731.XAA10032@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:15:14 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 23:31:40 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Greetings everyone, > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to >CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current >router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are >considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD >but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco >2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. The 2501 seems to be a bit underpowered. Jordan switched out a Cisco 2501 for a 4000 at Walnut Creek a few months ago and things seem to work better after that. I think the FreeBSD+card would likely work out better for you, but that's more opinion than experiance. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 00:23:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA23255 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23247 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA17735; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:24:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny Reply-To: Veggy Vinny To: David Greenman cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611140731.XAA10032@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > >Greetings everyone, > > > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > >CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > >router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > >considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > >but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > >2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. > > The 2501 seems to be a bit underpowered. Jordan switched out a Cisco 2501 > for a 4000 at Walnut Creek a few months ago and things seem to work better > after that. I think the FreeBSD+card would likely work out better for you, > but that's more opinion than experiance. Ah David, just the person we were looking for. :-) So the Cisco 2501 isn't that good of a router? How much does it cost for the 4000 and is there a AccessPC Card version of it? We're going to install the Dual Ported 25Mhz card in a FreeBSD based dedicated router box base on a Pentium 75Mhz with 16MB of RAM. We had been in contact with Paul Berggren in Sales for CRL Networking and he said that we can get a T1 router for as low as $650 but what kind of router would it be? He did ask us what kind of router we have now but what would be the correct answer for the FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking at Walnut Creek, we were wondering what are your experiences with CRL and how good is their peering with other ISPs? Thanks. Hope someone else who has the FreeBSD+card can share their experiences with us. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 00:31:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA23647 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.kada.lt (alpha.kada.lt [193.219.13.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23595 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from dara by alpha.kada.lt (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/21Jun96-0218PM) id AA15248; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:28:56 +0200 Message-Id: <9611140828.AA15248@alpha.kada.lt> From: "Darius Ramanauskas" To: Subject: Need majordomo help... Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:31:17 +0200 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All, There is one computer with multiple domains. I have installed majordomo from ports selection and I would like to have mail list on different domains. So, the question is HOWTO... and is it posible at all with majordomo. Thank you, Darius From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 00:43:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA24171 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24160 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA14603; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:43:33 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:43:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software support. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 01:23:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA25892 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA25887 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA20041; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:25:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:25:03 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. Yeah, that's what we have been considering. We are planning to dedicate a P5-75 with 16MB ram just to use as the router. What we are worried about is when the ISP asks us what router we're using, what would be a good description of this thing? > We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, > takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. > The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the ET? > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. > > So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software > side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software > support. Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the SDL cost less or more than the ET? > -- > Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net > tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 > Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 01:39:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA26774 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA26769 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14697; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:39:22 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:39:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. > > Yeah, that's what we have been considering. We are planning to > dedicate a P5-75 with 16MB ram just to use as the router. What we are > worried about is when the ISP asks us what router we're using, what would > be a good description of this thing? "UNIX-based router"? Nothing to be ashamed of. Two of the largest networks in the world, IBM and ans.net, use UNIX-based routers running gated. > > We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, > > takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. > > The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. > > Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the > ET? The boards that we have -- I think that the date on the PCB is 1992 -- have one connector on the backplate. The second port is on a very short ribbon cable that just barely makes it to the next ISA slot. Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works its way out. We also had support problems with ET (we bought three boards and ET adamantly refused to supply three sets of documentation) but YMMV. > > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. > > > > So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software > > side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software > > support. > > Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the > SDL cost less or more than the ET? The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the only choice with FreeBSD. Last time I checked the ET card was significantly more expensive than the SDL card. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 01:50:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA27206 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA27161 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA06301; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:48:35 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611140948.LAA06301@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Jim Dixon at "Nov 14, 96 08:43:32 am" To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:48:35 +0200 (SAT) Cc: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, > takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. > The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. > > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. There is support for the N2 and N2pci cards in FreeBSD-current and 2.2. I have commited a driver a few weeks ago. The N2d I don't know about. I think it is a card with a builtin NTU. Here in South Africa we have to use the Telkom supplied NTU's so I didn't add support for it. There is also a driver for the ISA Digi/Arnet SYNC570i cards. Look at www.dgii.com for them. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 01:58:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA27474 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:58:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA27469 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14784; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:57:50 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:57:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: John Hay cc: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611140948.LAA06301@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. > > There is support for the N2 and N2pci cards in FreeBSD-current and 2.2. I > have commited a driver a few weeks ago. The N2d I don't know about. I > think it is a card with a builtin NTU. Here in South Africa we have to > use the Telkom supplied NTU's so I didn't add support for it. As I recall the N2 is a single port card, the N2d (d for dual) is a two port card, and the N2csu has the built-in csu/dsu (American for NTU). -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:00:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA27644 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA27639 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA21909; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:00:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:00:37 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: John Hay cc: Jim Dixon , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611140948.LAA06301@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > There is support for the N2 and N2pci cards in FreeBSD-current and 2.2. I > have commited a driver a few weeks ago. The N2d I don't know about. I > think it is a card with a builtin NTU. Here in South Africa we have to > use the Telkom supplied NTU's so I didn't add support for it. Hmmm, where can one get the N2 cards? I only see the ET on the FreeBSD commercial page... Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:04:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA27883 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27858 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA09633; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:03:13 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611141003.MAA09633@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Veggy Vinny at "Nov 14, 96 02:00:37 am" To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:03:13 +0200 (SAT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > > > There is support for the N2 and N2pci cards in FreeBSD-current and 2.2. I > > have commited a driver a few weeks ago. The N2d I don't know about. I Hmmm. I got confused a bit. It is the N2csu that have the builtin NTU. The N2d is just the dual port version, which is supported. > > think it is a card with a builtin NTU. Here in South Africa we have to > > use the Telkom supplied NTU's so I didn't add support for it. > > Hmmm, where can one get the N2 cards? I only see the ET on the > FreeBSD commercial page... > They are at www.sdlcomm.com. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:05:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA27945 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27931 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14831; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:05:59 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:05:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Hmmm, where can one get the N2 cards? I only see the ET on the > FreeBSD commercial page... http://www.sdlcomm.com -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:07:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA28043 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:07:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA28037 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA09719; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:06:50 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611141006.MAA09719@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Jim Dixon at "Nov 14, 96 09:57:50 am" To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:06:50 +0200 (SAT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > > > > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > > > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > > > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. > > > > There is support for the N2 and N2pci cards in FreeBSD-current and 2.2. I > > have commited a driver a few weeks ago. The N2d I don't know about. I > > think it is a card with a builtin NTU. Here in South Africa we have to > > use the Telkom supplied NTU's so I didn't add support for it. > > As I recall the N2 is a single port card, the N2d (d for dual) is a two > port card, and the N2csu has the built-in csu/dsu (American for NTU). > Yes you are right. I got confused a bit. :-/ The driver support both the single and dual cards. I don't know what will be needed to add support for the N2csu. I assume that the current driver will probably only need some minor tweaks to work with it. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:15:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA28360 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:15:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA28355 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA22603; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:16:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. > > > > Yeah, that's what we have been considering. We are planning to > > dedicate a P5-75 with 16MB ram just to use as the router. What we are > > worried about is when the ISP asks us what router we're using, what would > > be a good description of this thing? > > "UNIX-based router"? Hmmm, do you think they will know what a Unix-based router is? ;-) > Nothing to be ashamed of. Two of the largest networks in the world, > IBM and ans.net, use UNIX-based routers running gated. Really? I thought they used Cisco's or Cascade. > > > We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, > > > takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. > > > The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. > > > > Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the > > ET? > > The boards that we have -- I think that the date on the PCB is 1992 -- > have one connector on the backplate. The second port is on a very short > ribbon cable that just barely makes it to the next ISA slot. Hmmm, this is interesting. > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works > its way out. So it actually has physical problems that can be costly over time? > We also had support problems with ET (we bought three boards and ET > adamantly refused to supply three sets of documentation) but YMMV. Hmmm, I emailed Dennis at ET and the only problem we had was the COD only policy for payment. > > > The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There > > > is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software > > > suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. > > > > > > So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software > > > side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software > > > support. > > > > Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the > > SDL cost less or more than the ET? > > The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco > HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John > Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the > only choice with FreeBSD. > > Last time I checked the ET card was significantly more expensive than > the SDL card. Hmmm, what are the differences between the two cards anyways? We're gonna have either a Full T1 or a Frame Relay T1. So the SDL card doesn't support FR? As for the SDL, is the RiscSomething mentioned on the ET homepage actually the SDL card? Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:22:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA28733 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA28726 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cantina.clinet.fi (root@cantina.clinet.fi [194.100.0.15]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.6/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA22124; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:22:19 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by cantina.clinet.fi (8.7.5/8.6.4) id MAA01184; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:22:19 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:22:19 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199611141022.MAA01184@cantina.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Jim Dixon Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Jim Dixon's message of 14 Nov 1996 11:32:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland References: Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Jim Dixon We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. Digi/Arnet 570i works with FreeBSD using the driver in -current. We have >10 boards in production with variety of hardware around them, oldest one is about 1 year old. The quality seems to be good, no failed units and quirks. I think SDL driver is similar or same, as both author and hardware are similar. So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software support. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-9-43542270 fax -4555276 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:31:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29111 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA29098 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14884; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:32:11 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:32:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > Nothing to be ashamed of. Two of the largest networks in the world, > > IBM and ans.net, use UNIX-based routers running gated. > > Really? I thought they used Cisco's or Cascade. No. ans.net has two separate autonomous systems, one (AS690) using gated boxes and the other (just being implemented, I think), using Bay routers. Both IBM and ANS are members of the gated consortium. > > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > > This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the > > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > > the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works > > its way out. > > So it actually has physical problems that can be costly over time? The daughterboard works its way loose. > Hmmm, I emailed Dennis at ET and the only problem we had was the > COD only policy for payment. I think that support at ET has improved considerably. I could be wrong ;-) > Hmmm, what are the differences between the two cards anyways? Nothing much, as far as I can see, in terms of functionality. That is, they do the same job. > We're gonna have either a Full T1 or a Frame Relay T1. So the SDL card > doesn't support FR? There is no FreeBSD driver that handles frame relay. It's not a problem with the card. There _are_ BSD/OS and Linux drivers for SDL. > As for the SDL, is the RiscSomething mentioned on the > ET homepage actually the SDL card? Oh, probably. Dennis is given to slamming the opposition. The full name of the dual-port card is the RISCom N2d. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:31:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29109 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA29101 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA23128; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Was just looking at the SDL Homepage and was wondering what the Asynchronous and BiSynchrous speeds mean since isn't it supposed to do atleast 1.544MBps? THis is for the RISCCom/N2. Features Hitachi HD64570 SCA Two Full Duplex DMA Ports 64/512K of Dual Port RAM Async Speeds of 300 Kbps Bisync Speeds of 300 Kbps HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps RS232, EIA530, X.21 & V.35 Applications LAN Bridges & Routers X.25 Access Frame Relay Access X.25/SNA Gateway/Server Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:34:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29300 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA29289 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14901; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:34:55 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:34:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Was just looking at the SDL Homepage and was wondering what the > Asynchronous and BiSynchrous speeds mean since isn't it supposed to do > atleast 1.544MBps? > > THis is for the RISCCom/N2. > ... > HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps This is the number you care about. PPP, Cisco HDLC, and frame relay run on top of raw HDLC. We have never cranked them up to 12 Mbps ;-) but they work fine at 2 Mbps or T1. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:44:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29739 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA29734 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA23601; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:45:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:45:43 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > Nothing to be ashamed of. Two of the largest networks in the world, > > > IBM and ans.net, use UNIX-based routers running gated. > > > > Really? I thought they used Cisco's or Cascade. > > No. ans.net has two separate autonomous systems, one (AS690) using > gated boxes and the other (just being implemented, I think), using > Bay routers. Hmmm, okay. Is Bay Routers the same as WellFleet? That's what we're using now and is probably the cause of this line on one of our machines: Nov 14 02:34:57 earth routed[57]: punt RTM_LOSING without gateway > Both IBM and ANS are members of the gated consortium. Ah I see. > > > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > > > This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the > > > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > > > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > > > the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works > > > its way out. > > > > So it actually has physical problems that can be costly over time? > > The daughterboard works its way loose. oh okay but does it damage the circuit board in anyway? > > Hmmm, I emailed Dennis at ET and the only problem we had was the > > COD only policy for payment. > > I think that support at ET has improved considerably. I could be wrong ;-) Oh that's good but is Dennis the only person at ET? ;-) > > Hmmm, what are the differences between the two cards anyways? > > Nothing much, as far as I can see, in terms of functionality. That is, > they do the same job. Oh I see, so the features are pretty much identical? > > We're gonna have either a Full T1 or a Frame Relay T1. So the SDL card > > doesn't support FR? > > There is no FreeBSD driver that handles frame relay. It's not a problem > with the card. There _are_ BSD/OS and Linux drivers for SDL. Oh okay, so it's just a driver issue. I guess the ET might be a better option for us now. > > As for the SDL, is the RiscSomething mentioned on the > > ET homepage actually the SDL card? > > Oh, probably. Dennis is given to slamming the opposition. The full > name of the dual-port card is the RISCom N2d. Yep, I knew I saw the Risc name somewhere Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 02:57:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA00298 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:57:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00287 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA23856; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:58:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > Was just looking at the SDL Homepage and was wondering what the > > Asynchronous and BiSynchrous speeds mean since isn't it supposed to do > > atleast 1.544MBps? > > > > THis is for the RISCCom/N2. > > ... > > HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps > > This is the number you care about. PPP, Cisco HDLC, and frame relay > run on top of raw HDLC. We have never cranked them up to 12 Mbps ;-) > but they work fine at 2 Mbps or T1. I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those numbers for? T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed going in and out combined... Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 03:34:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA01931 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA01926 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA10435; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:30:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611141130.DAA10435@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Veggy Vinny cc: Jim Dixon , John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 02:58:02 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:30:19 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Was just looking at the SDL Homepage and was wondering what the >> > Asynchronous and BiSynchrous speeds mean since isn't it supposed to do >> > atleast 1.544MBps? >> > >> > THis is for the RISCCom/N2. >> > ... >> > HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps >> >> This is the number you care about. PPP, Cisco HDLC, and frame relay >> run on top of raw HDLC. We have never cranked them up to 12 Mbps ;-) >> but they work fine at 2 Mbps or T1. > > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, >isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those >numbers for? T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed >going in and out combined... I'm sure you misunderstood what Dennis said. I'm sure he knows that T1's are DS1 speed (1.544Mbits/second). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 03:39:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA02424 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02417 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA24944; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:39:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:39:02 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: David Greenman cc: Jim Dixon , John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141130.DAA10435@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > I'm sure you misunderstood what Dennis said. I'm sure he knows that T1's > are DS1 speed (1.544Mbits/second). You're probably right since I asked him if a 10MBps or 10/100Mbps card would be better for the ethernet from the machine and he said, the max is 3MBps, 1.544MBps in/1.544MBps out full deplex. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 03:44:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA02824 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA02819 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA02617; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:43:49 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611141143.NAA02617@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Jim Dixon at "Nov 14, 96 10:32:10 am" To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:43:49 +0200 (SAT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > We're gonna have either a Full T1 or a Frame Relay T1. So the SDL card > > doesn't support FR? > > There is no FreeBSD driver that handles frame relay. It's not a problem > with the card. There _are_ BSD/OS and Linux drivers for SDL. > My N2(pci) driver has the hooks for the SDL Frame Relay driver. I haven't tested it, but it was tested at SDL. I think they want to sell it as a separate product. Maybe you should ask them about it. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 03:50:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA03049 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:50:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA03042 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA10526; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:50:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611141150.DAA10526@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:24:50 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:50:11 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Pentium 75Mhz with 16MB of RAM. We had been in contact with Paul Berggren >in Sales for CRL Networking and he said that we can get a T1 router for as >low as $650 but what kind of router would it be? You'll have to ask him. >FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking >at Walnut Creek, Yes, that is correct. > we were wondering what are your experiences with CRL and >how good is their peering with other ISPs? Thanks. Hope someone else who >has the FreeBSD+card can share their experiences with us. They have very good peering. Their backbone was overloaded, but they've made some changes to mitigate the problem until some additional long-haul DS3 circuits are installed. They have major networking facilities in both San Francisco and DC with 45Mbit/sec connections to most of the major NAPs. This is not to say that things have been completely rosey. CRL didn't have "direct" peering with Sprint until just a month ago, and they didn't have a fiber/gigaswitch connection at MAE-east until just a week or so ago (it was previously just 10Mbit ethernet). Their backbone still sucks and I was seeing >75% packet loss on it as recently as last week. They don't connect to the Chicago or NY NAPs ("only" MAE-east, MAE-west, PB-NAP, and CIX SMDS). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 04:14:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04256 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04250 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15106; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:15:27 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:15:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps > > > > This is the number you care about. PPP, Cisco HDLC, and frame relay > > run on top of raw HDLC. We have never cranked them up to 12 Mbps ;-) > > but they work fine at 2 Mbps or T1. > > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, > isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those > numbers for? You can use the board for other purposes, possibly with different daughterboards. It has nothing to do with 'the ethernet side', which is handled by the Pentium. > T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed > going in and out combined... Well, of course, it's bidirectional. But everybody else thinks that T1 is 1.536 Mbps or so. We run N2Ds at 2 Mbps (or 4 Mbps if you want to count it that way) with no trouble at all. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 04:21:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04718 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04707 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15117; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:20:09 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:20:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > No. ans.net has two separate autonomous systems, one (AS690) using > > gated boxes and the other (just being implemented, I think), using > > Bay routers. > > Hmmm, okay. Is Bay Routers the same as WellFleet? That's what Yep. But the new Bay Networks routers have a very good reputation. [We also use and despise a couple of Wellfleets.] > > The daughterboard works its way loose. > > oh okay but does it damage the circuit board in anyway? No, but if it falls out it won't be good for your telecommunications. > > I think that support at ET has improved considerably. I could be wrong ;-) > > Oh that's good but is Dennis the only person at ET? ;-) Uh ... the only person that we have every spoken to at ET. > Oh I see, so the features are pretty much identical? Yes. > > > We're gonna have either a Full T1 or a Frame Relay T1. So the SDL card > > > doesn't support FR? > > > > There is no FreeBSD driver that handles frame relay. It's not a problem > > with the card. There _are_ BSD/OS and Linux drivers for SDL. > > Oh okay, so it's just a driver issue. I guess the ET might be a > better option for us now. Possibly, especially if you have only one WAN connection and that uses frame relay. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 04:22:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA04877 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA04869 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 04:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA15126; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:22:46 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:22:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: John Hay cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141006.MAA09719@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > > As I recall the N2 is a single port card, the N2d (d for dual) is a two > > port card, and the N2csu has the built-in csu/dsu (American for NTU). > > Yes you are right. I got confused a bit. :-/ The driver support both the > single and dual cards. I don't know what will be needed to add support > for the N2csu. I assume that the current driver will probably only need > some minor tweaks to work with it. Right. You need to add the necessary IOCTL commands. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 05:28:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA08697 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA08692 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04991; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:28:51 -0800 (PST) To: Veggy Vinny cc: David Greenman , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:24:50 PST." Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:28:51 -0800 Message-ID: <4989.847978131@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ah David, just the person we were looking for. :-) So the Cisco > 2501 isn't that good of a router? How much does it cost for the 4000 and > is there a AccessPC Card version of it? We're going to install the Dual I think you should talk to Cisco - David is unlikely to be a walking price book for Cisco products. :-) > Pentium 75Mhz with 16MB of RAM. We had been in contact with Paul Berggren > in Sales for CRL Networking and he said that we can get a T1 router for as > low as $650 but what kind of router would it be? He did ask us what kind Ask Paul? :-) > of router we have now but what would be the correct answer for the > FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking "We're using FreeBSD and a sync-serial card." :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 05:39:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA09296 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:39:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09291 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA05077; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:39:33 -0800 (PST) To: Veggy Vinny cc: Jim Dixon , isp@FreeBSD.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:25:03 PST." Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:39:33 -0800 Message-ID: <5075.847978773@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the > SDL cost less or more than the ET? Vinny vinny vinny... You seem to be allergic to the idea of doing any of own research and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see your next series of questions go something along the lines of: 1. So, what should I do? Please send me a detailed site plan with all cost estimates attached. 2. Can someone come over here and do all this for me while I vacation in the Carribean? :-) My suggestions: 1. Do a net search for Emerging Technologies (or see FreeBSD's commercial entries off the home page) and get their contact information. Say to the nice person who answers: "Uh, can you give me your prices?" 2. Do a net search for SDL communications and do the same. 3. Repeat step 2 for Cisco. Tada! You've now got price information and probably a stack of FAX'd technical data if you also gave the nice sales critters your FAX number and requested data. Requests for empirical data are one thing, but questions about things you're more than capable of answering for yourself strike me as a waste of everyone's time. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 05:52:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA09834 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09806 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA17082 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:53:32 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa07681; 14 Nov 96 8:58 EST Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:58:40 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Greetings everyone, > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with freebsd's tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, if my freebsd's are not the other side of my cisco from them. For instance, if they were to pull headers from a new server on the same subnet, the news server being freebsd, it would stop.. Same with web pages. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 05:58:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA10149 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:58:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10143 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 05:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA17099 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:59:38 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa08012; 14 Nov 96 9:03 EST Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:03:26 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Jim Dixon cc: Veggy Vinny , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 06:43:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA12642 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:43:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA12634 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id KAA00612; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:01:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:01:23 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Veggy Vinny cc: Jim Dixon , John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, > isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those > numbers for? T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed > going in and out combined... When did that happen? We have two right now load ballanced on a cisco 7010. We wanted to change it to a simplex config, but the cisco can not handle it. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 06:56:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA13471 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13466 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vO3Cu-0008t0C; Thu, 14 Nov 96 06:55 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:55:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: dg@Root.COM, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 14, 96 00:24:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 2501 isn't that good of a router? How much does it cost for the 4000 and > is there a AccessPC Card version of it? I'm a bit rusty, but my recollection is this: The 2501 uses a medium to low speed 68000 processor and does no "fast switching" (i.e. the interface has a cache w/hardware to look up routes without involving the processor, which just processes routing updates and downloads the tables into the cache). The AccessPC card is a version of the 2501 that plugs into a PC, but all it does is get power and save space. You still have to have a Ethernet card in the PC and run drops from both cards to your LAN. The 4000M uses the same or a little faster 68000, and does do some fast switching. The 4500 uses a 100Mhz MIPS processor, and the 4700 uses a 133Mhz MIPS. I don't remember pricing on the 4000, but the 4500/4700 with ethernet and high speed serial interfaces are something around $15K. -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 07:00:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA13679 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13654 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA10844; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:59:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611141459.GAA10844@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Steve cc: Jim Dixon , Veggy Vinny , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:03:26 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 06:59:18 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > >> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: >> >> > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same >> > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. > >I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list >active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very >close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. As long as your packets stay large. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 07:18:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14567 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14558 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id HAA24626; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:21:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:21:14 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: Veggy Vinny cc: isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Havent compared, but I'm pretty happy with ET. Support from Dennis was very good. On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > Greetings everyone, > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. > > Vince > GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 07:24:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14906 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14894 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15548; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:24:13 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:24:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Steve cc: Veggy Vinny , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve wrote: > > > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > > > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. > > I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list Because "you can get a lot more performance for the same amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards". > active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very > close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. You seem to be saying that people should buy 2501s because, after all, they work. Well, so do other products and some of those other products are cheaper. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 07:31:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA15295 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15277 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:31:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15603; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:32:03 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:32:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Steve cc: Veggy Vinny , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve wrote: > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. > > Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with freebsd's > tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, if my freebsd's are > not the other side of my cisco from them. For instance, if they were to > pull headers from a new server on the same subnet, the news server being > freebsd, it would stop.. Same with web pages. YMMV. We have a FreeBSD-based router that has been handling our peering with some 30 other networks in the UK for six months or so on an experimental basis. Works like a charm. Then we have a cluster of three routers in California, one a Cisco, the other two UNIX boxes. The Cisco has the lightest load and causes all the trouble. It is worth while remembering that TCP/IP was largely developed on UNIX boxes. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 07:49:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA22204 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA22145 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA25307; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:54:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:54:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141554.KAA25307@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jim Dixon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Dixon writes... >We use a variety of sync serial cards. The ET card is an old design, >takes up two ISA slots (one for each port), and has other problems. >The SDL Communications cards (N2d, N2pci) are better hardware. > >The problem with the SDL cards is the lack of FreeBSD drivers. There >is a driver for the N2d but not for the N2pci. The ET driver software >suppports more protocols and some degree of compression. >So generally SDL wins on the hardware side and ET on the software >side. We prefer SDL but are not happy with the lack of software >support. > The ET boards and the RiscComm are virtually the same design with different CPUs..so from what knowledge base does this come from? Perhaps the fact that I refuse to sell cards at any price to any company that employs the likes of Jim Dixon has an effect on this opinion? Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:00:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28984 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA28925 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15820; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:00:37 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:00:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141554.KAA25307@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > The ET boards and the RiscComm are virtually the same design with > different CPUs..so from what knowledge base does this come from? The cards were described as functionally equivalent. They are. > Perhaps the fact that I refuse to sell cards at any price to any company > that employs the likes of Jim Dixon has an effect on this opinion? Dennis, I have been quite polite about you personally and given what I regard as a fair evaluation of your products. I have done this despite your appalling lack of common sense in dealing with customers. If you wish we can talk about this in public. I can't imagine why you would choose to do so. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:09:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01867 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01807 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25414; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:14:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:14:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141614.LAA25414@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jim Dixon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The reasons we dont deal with J. Dixon are rather obvious here..... >> Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the >> ET? > >The boards that we have -- I think that the date on the PCB is 1992 -- the riscomm design is about the same age.....so whats your point? We didnt have problems with our design, so we haven't change the copyright. Perhaps you'd rather deal with a company that needs 5 revs of a board to get it right...but thats your choice. >have one connector on the backplate. The second port is on a very short >ribbon cable that just barely makes it to the next ISA slot. We have longer cables for chassis mount. Clearly this is an issue with 6 ports, but not with four or less. the age of the design...well the boards work and give 100% throughput..not much to change..... > >Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. >This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the >daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too >high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all >the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works >its way out. The "logic" is NOT on the daughtercard,only the electrical interface (ie V.35 or RS-422) . the socket / bowing problem was addressed well over a year ago.......the ICs are no longer socketed and the "Friction" is quite substatial. > >We also had support problems with ET (we bought three boards and ET >adamantly refused to supply three sets of documentation) but YMMV. you had support problems because you refused to do what I asked you to do when you had problems, and it was fairly evident that you were more concerned with finding problems than solutions. We supply 1 manual per order..you are free to copy them as you please. If you pay list price for all of the boards, you can get 3 manuals. Its a fairly simply policy. >> Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the >> SDL cost less or more than the ET? > >The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco >HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John >Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the >only choice with FreeBSD. You get what you pay for. We provide full-featured and well-supported drivers.... integrated debugger, bandwidth management and filtering.. and if you're using frame there really is no competition to our product. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:13:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03138 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03112 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA05931; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:12:07 -0800 (PST) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Jim Dixon , isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:54:46 EST." <199611141554.KAA25307@etinc.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:12:07 -0800 Message-ID: <5929.847987927@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps the fact that I refuse to sell cards at any price to any company > that employs the likes of Jim Dixon has an effect on this opinion? Am I the only one who finds the very concept of companies who sell their product based on personal bias to be more than a little repugnant? C'mon, Dennis - even someone as notoriously thick-skinned as yourself should be able to see how incredibly unprofessional, to say nothing of purile, that last sentence must sound to readers of this mailing list. I may have extremely unflattering things to say about Microsoft from time to time, but they're still more than happy to sell me copies of Windows if I'm nonetheless forced to buy them, and I daresay that Bill (if he even cared) would find the concept of one of his detractors buying his product to be deliciously ironic, and probably some of the sweetest bucks of all. I hope that you'll reconsider that statement and possibly retract it. You're supposed to be a businessman, not the male incarnation of Za Za Gabor. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:19:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA04524 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04490 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25486; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:24:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:24:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141624.LAA25486@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the >> SDL cost less or more than the ET? > >Vinny vinny vinny... You seem to be allergic to the idea of doing any >of own research and it would not surprise me in the slightest to see >your next series of questions go something along the lines of: > >1. So, what should I do? Please send me a detailed site plan with > all cost estimates attached. > >2. Can someone come over here and do all this for me while I vacation in > the Carribean? :-) > >My suggestions: > >1. Do a net search for Emerging Technologies (or see FreeBSD's commercial > entries off the home page) and get their contact information. Say to the > nice person who answers: "Uh, can you give me your prices?" > >2. Do a net search for SDL communications and do the same. > >3. Repeat step 2 for Cisco. > >Tada! You've now got price information and probably a stack of FAX'd >technical data if you also gave the nice sales critters your FAX >number and requested data. > >Requests for empirical data are one thing, but questions about things >you're more than capable of answering for yourself strike me as a >waste of everyone's time. Unfortunatly, all products work great in the marketing literature. You can also find someone who likes and dislikes any particular product. but you are right...you have to decide for yourself. Its kind of like buying a car.....some people just want to get to the station, and some people have like to make high speed turns...... Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:27:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA05960 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05935 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25543 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:32:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:32:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141632.LAA25543@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J. Dixon..making stuff up >> > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. >> > This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the >> > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too >> > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all >> > the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works >> > its way out. You are so full of sh*t I can smell it over the net. Where do you have your router, in a dump truck? We sold thousand of cards with the old daughtercard and never did one ever "work its way loose", for christ's sake...there was never a problem....we changed it because some people didn't like the way it looked.....it was NEVER a problem db From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:27:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA06080 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA06058 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15900; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:28:24 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:28:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141614.LAA25414@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > The reasons we dont deal with J. Dixon are rather obvious here..... Yes. He is given to thinking. > >> Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the > >> ET? > > > >The boards that we have -- I think that the date on the PCB is 1992 -- I was trying to suggest that perhaps the boards that we had were an old design, and the problems might have been corrected. I guess they haven't been. > the riscomm design is about the same age.....so whats your point? We RISCOM/N2 REV D -- February 1996. > didnt have problems with our design, so we haven't change the copyright. > Perhaps you'd rather deal with a company that needs 5 revs of a board to > get it right...but thats your choice. No. We manufacture boards on occasion. We are aware that there have been many advances in the last four years. Perhaps you aren't. > >have one connector on the backplate. The second port is on a very short > >ribbon cable that just barely makes it to the next ISA slot. > > We have longer cables for chassis mount. Clearly this is an issue with > 6 ports, but not with four or less. the age of the design...well the boards > work and give 100% throughput..not much to change..... The three boards supplied to VBCnet all had extremely short ribbon connectors, making them difficult to use. They occupy two ISA slots; the N2d occupies one. > >Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > >This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the > >daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > >high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > >the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works > >its way out. > > The "logic" is NOT on the daughtercard,only the electrical interface (ie V.35 > or RS-422) . the socket / bowing problem was addressed well over a year > ago.......the ICs are no longer socketed and the "Friction" is quite substatial. That is good. I did indicate that we had 1992 products. However, positive retention, as is in fact used on the current revision of the N2d, is preferable. > >We also had support problems with ET (we bought three boards and ET > >adamantly refused to supply three sets of documentation) but YMMV. > > you had support problems because you refused to do what I asked you to > do when you had problems, and it was fairly evident that you were more > concerned with finding problems than solutions. We told you that the boards were being used in widely distributed locations (6000 miles apart). We asked for three manuals. You supplied one out of date manual. We had support problems because the cards did not work when used as specified in the manual, because compression didn't compress, because use of the cards caused system panics, and because calls to your company for support resulted in just the sort of bad-tempered response we are seeing right now. > We supply 1 manual per order..you are free to copy them as you please. If > you pay list price for all of the boards, you can get 3 manuals. Its a fairly > simply policy. Not explained to us when we placed the order. Nor does it really explain why one out of date manual was supplied. > >> Hmmm okay, but is the ET still better than a Cisco? and does the > >> SDL cost less or more than the ET? > > > >The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco > >HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John > >Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the > >only choice with FreeBSD. > > You get what you pay for. We provide full-featured and well-supported > drivers.... > integrated debugger, bandwidth management and filtering.. and if you're using > frame there really is no competition to our product. My recommendations stand. The SDL card is lower in price and better manufactured. I would recommend it over the ET board. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:29:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA06427 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA06397 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25568; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:35:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:35:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141635.LAA25568@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Veggy Vinny From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > >> I'm sure you misunderstood what Dennis said. I'm sure he knows that T1's >> are DS1 speed (1.544Mbits/second). > > You're probably right since I asked him if a 10MBps or 10/100Mbps >card would be better for the ethernet from the machine and he said, the >max is 3MBps, 1.544MBps in/1.544MBps out full deplex. The routing requirement for a T1 line is potentially 2 X 1.544Mbs, as it, unlike ethernet, is full duplex. Bus transfers (about which I was referring) are double the bandwidth for HDLC / Sync lines. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:31:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA07115 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07086 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.2]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18091; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:30:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:30:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" X-Sender: ejs@harlie To: Alan Batie cc: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, dg@Root.COM, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Alan Batie wrote: > The 2501 uses a medium to low speed 68000 processor and does no "fast > switching" (i.e. the interface has a cache w/hardware to look up routes > without involving the processor, which just processes routing updates > and downloads the tables into the cache). 68030, I believe (or at least that's what I found in our documentation). From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:46:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA14439 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14409 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15971; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:46:01 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:46:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141632.LAA25539@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > J. Dixon..making stuff up > > >> > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > >> > This is held in only by friction. Is the daughterboard held in by something other than friction? > >> > There is a device below one of the > >> > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > >> > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > >> > the way in without causing it to bow. Does the daughterboard not bend if you push it all the way in? > >> > Then over time it gradually works > >> > its way out. > > You are so full of sh*t I can smell it over the net. Where do you have > your router, in a dump truck? We sold thousand of cards with the > old daughtercard and never did one ever "work its way loose", for > christ's sake...there was never a problem....we changed it because > some people didn't like the way it looked.....it was NEVER a problem If you push the daughterboard home the PCB is bowed. If you let it sit in a working router for any period of time the card gradually straightens itself out. At that point the pins are just into their sockets. This is just bad design. Our routers are rack mounted. The only vibration is caused by fans. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:51:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17103 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from noc.msc.edu (noc.msc.edu [137.66.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17098 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from uc.msc.edu by noc.msc.edu (5.65/MSC/v3.0.1(920324)) id AA27199; Thu, 14 Nov 96 10:48:54 -0600 Received: from fergus-12.dialup.prtel.com by uc.msc.edu (5.65/MSC/v3.0z(901212)) id AA16913; Thu, 14 Nov 96 10:48:50 -0600 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.Think.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA21077; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:48:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:48:42 -0600 (CST) From: Tony Kimball Message-Id: <199611141648.KAA21077@compound.Think.COM> To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jsuter@intrastar.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame References: <7306.847915087@time.cdrom.com> <199611132009.OAA23742@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoth Joe Greco on Wed, 13 November: : it should be much easier to do a 320 * 200 display (64000 pixels, : and at 16 bit depth that's 128Kbytes of data) as opposed to a 1024 * 768 : display (786432 pixels, and at 24 bit depth that's 2.4Mbytes of data). IIRC, NTSC runs at 352x240, but 12 bits is plenty for color. That's ~1 Mbit/frame uncompressed, ->~100 Kbit/frame MPEG-2. (Most high-budget films are recorded 24 celluloid fps.) DSS uses 3Mbit/sec to encode Pay Per View channels, which sounds about right. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:53:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17275 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17270 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25717; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:57:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:57:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141657.LAA25717@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jim Dixon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >> The reasons we dont deal with J. Dixon are rather obvious here..... > >Yes. He is given to thinking. thinking can be a bad thing for some.. > >> >> Hmmm, ET takes up two ISA slots? What are the problems with the >> >> ET? >> > >> >The boards that we have -- I think that the date on the PCB is 1992 -- > >I was trying to suggest that perhaps the boards that we had were an >old design, and the problems might have been corrected. I guess they >haven't been. > >> the riscomm design is about the same age.....so whats your point? We > >RISCOM/N2 REV D -- February 1996. the boards were designed in the early 90's, thinking man, they just keep finding bugs......we're on Rev A because we did it right the first time! We also know that the board itself is only a small part of the big picture...the software is much more important to stability and value added functionality. > >> didnt have problems with our design, so we haven't change the copyright. >> Perhaps you'd rather deal with a company that needs 5 revs of a board to >> get it right...but thats your choice. > >No. We manufacture boards on occasion. We are aware that there have >been many advances in the last four years. Perhaps you aren't. The only "advances" with the Riscomm is that is used to not work very well, and now it is better. Get yourself a Rev A N2 board and see what an abortion it was......... >We had support problems because the cards did not work when used as >specified in the manual, because compression didn't compress, because >use of the cards caused system panics, and because calls to your company >for support resulted in just the sort of bad-tempered response we are >seeing right now. I told you you couldnt compress BSD ping packets with our algorithm, and that the compression couldnt compete with specialized compression routers. Compression is a "feature". You also refused to send me your config files and that you didn't have the thing configured correctly (ala the panics). You never did what I asked you to do...I can't help those that dont want it. Other not-so-thinking people did fine with the manuals provided db From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 08:53:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17332 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17324 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25726; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:59:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:59:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141659.LAA25726@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Perhaps the fact that I refuse to sell cards at any price to any company >> that employs the likes of Jim Dixon has an effect on this opinion? > >Am I the only one who finds the very concept of companies who sell >their product based on personal bias to be more than a little >repugnant? C'mon, Dennis - even someone as notoriously thick-skinned >as yourself should be able to see how incredibly unprofessional, to >say nothing of purile, that last sentence must sound to readers of >this mailing list. You might not like what I say, but what I say is the truth. I think that public vendettas are equally repugnant, so you can decide for yourself which is less appropriate. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:06:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18162 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from noc.msc.edu (noc.msc.edu [137.66.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18141 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from uc.msc.edu by noc.msc.edu (5.65/MSC/v3.0.1(920324)) id AA28432; Thu, 14 Nov 96 11:06:11 -0600 Received: from fergus-12.dialup.prtel.com by uc.msc.edu (5.65/MSC/v3.0z(901212)) id AA17061; Thu, 14 Nov 96 11:06:08 -0600 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.Think.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA21098; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:06:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:06:06 -0600 (CST) From: Tony Kimball Message-Id: <199611141706.LAA21098@compound.Think.COM> To: michael@memra.com Cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bang bang bang bang - lame lame lame lame References: <199611131751.LAA23456@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoth Michael Dillon on Wed, 13 November: : > > What if I put fiber on the : > > poles, and dropped into people's homes.... : > > ...microwave myself back to the real world to connect to : > > the net... : : If you have no experience with outside plant and your investors have less : than $10 million dollars, then forget this idea. That is blowing smoke. How much capital you need depends entirely upon how many sites and their physical distribution, and the local right-of-way conditions. (Where I live, right-of-way is community property, and is free for the taking, if you can get a city council permit -- and anyone who isn't threatening the resource can do so, in practice.) I run fiber to the local school district to supply my own home Internet. If I can do it profitably for personal use, an ISP can certainly do this profitably in the correct market, where maintenance is amortized over the customer base. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:08:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18329 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18323 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA07431 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:23:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA20932 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:04:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:04:41 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > Other problems: the logic for each port is on a small daughterboard. > This is held in only by friction. There is a device below one of the > daughterboards -- the one for port 0, unfortunately -- that is too > high (because it is socketed), so you can't get the daughterboard all > the way in without causing it to bow. Then over time it gradually works > its way out. You should call ET and specifically ask about this problem. It the device was too high on some units due to a socket that may have been solved by mounting it directly with no socket so this may no longer be a problem on newer units. > The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco > HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John > Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the > only choice with FreeBSD. > > Last time I checked the ET card was significantly more expensive than > the SDL card. Before deciding this you should read the info at http://www.etinc.com that compares the ET and other products. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:09:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18409 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18402 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA25384; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:07:53 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611141707.LAA25384@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:07:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: jdd@vbc.net, richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Steve" at Nov 14, 96 09:03:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same > > > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. > > I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list > active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very > close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. Excellent! Now try it with data packets that are somewhat smaller than 500 bytes. My 386DX/40 with one of the ET cards was able to max out a T1 (at least in one direction, the inbound channel was probably not maxxed), as long as the data packets were moderate to large. With 60% saturation my CPU was more than 50% idle, but that number dropped rapidly as it approached saturation. Once it started seeing more small packet traffic, it started to display the dreaded slow-blinking-cursor syndrome that indicates you are way over what the CPU is able to handle. Now it is a 486DX5/133 with a pair of PCI DEC 21041's instead of a cruddy NE2000, and I do not worry too much about it :-) What is the CPU in a 2501, anyways? I think a 68000 but that is not first hand experience. I have some Sun 3/60's with 68000's in them, anyone want one? They are roughly comparable to a 386DX/25. On a very much related-to-routers note... I do have a sad report. Trantor, my mega-386DX/40-from-hell with 6 ISA Ethernet cards, was taken out by a faulty hub (don't know exactly what happened yet). It was replaced (at least temporarily) by a nice ASUS P55T2P4 Pentium 100 with a Znyx 314 and (alas) an NE2000... The following tests are purely routing, with several other boxes providing the beating. Doing a wire to wire FTP transfer with all 21x4x based cards gets me about 2500 packets per second, with a massive number of collisions. procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 w0 in sy cs us sy id 0 0 0 31712 3288 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 5587 38 8 0 26 74 0 0 0 31712 3288 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5013 34 7 0 25 75 0 0 0 31712 3288 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5106 30 6 0 26 74 0 0 0 31712 3288 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5304 30 6 0 28 72 0 0 0 31712 3288 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5435 34 7 0 33 67 I like the % idle :-) Doing the same thing out the NE2000 based port gives the same throughput but only 5% idle :-( (Moral of the story: NE2000 sucks, but we all knew that). Now I try nailing it with "ping -f"... procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 w0 in sy cs us sy id 0 0 0 31612 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8390 32 6 0 36 64 0 0 0 31612 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8392 42 6 1 40 60 0 0 0 31612 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 8068 32 7 0 35 65 0 0 0 27352 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7045 34 7 0 36 64 0 0 0 27352 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8392 30 6 0 36 64 0 0 0 27352 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8029 30 6 0 41 59 0 0 0 27352 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7533 30 6 0 33 67 0 0 0 27352 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8657 30 6 0 39 61 0 0 0 27352 3284 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8869 42 8 1 37 62 0 0 0 31528 3284 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8789 42 8 0 38 62 We are handling about 4K packets per second and maybe now are just starting to break a sweat.. response is still _instantaneous_. I tried a few other things and the numbers I got were varied. I was not doing a particularly scientific test, I just wanted to make it fall over, and I couldn't. The box was also handling my normal network traffic while taking this pounding... This has nothing to do with the T1 thing, I realize, but when we start talking about the ability of routers to route. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:10:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18499 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:10:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18480 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16077; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:10:36 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:10:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141657.LAA25717@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > thinking can be a bad thing for some.. Especially Dennis ;-) So he doesn't bother. > >> the riscomm design is about the same age.....so whats your point? We > > > >RISCOM/N2 REV D -- February 1996. > > the boards were designed in the early 90's, thinking man, they just keep > finding bugs......we're on Rev A because we did it right the first time! We > also know that the board itself is only a small part of the big picture...the > software is much more important to stability and value added functionality. Dennis, your software was not stable. It was very unreliable. Certain features just did not work. > >No. We manufacture boards on occasion. We are aware that there have > >been many advances in the last four years. Perhaps you aren't. > > The only "advances" with the Riscomm is that is used to not work very well, > and now it is better. Get yourself a Rev A N2 board and see what an abortion > it was......... We have quite a few N2Ds. The new designs are clearly better. For one thing, they now use daughterboards with positive retention. They still only occupy one slot. Their documentation has been substantially improved. Their software is quite stable. > >We had support problems because the cards did not work when used as > >specified in the manual, because compression didn't compress, because > >use of the cards caused system panics, and because calls to your company > >for support resulted in just the sort of bad-tempered response we are > >seeing right now. > > I told you you couldnt compress BSD ping packets with our algorithm, and > that the You didn't listen to what we were saying. We told you that we had bought the boards for evaluation and that we would buy a lot more if the evaluation was successful. We did not select the ET cards because (a) the hardware design was poor (the bowed daughterboards, the short connectors, the use of two slots), (b) the documentation did not match the product, (c) the software was unreliable, (d) the attitude at "support" was amazing, and (e) compression didn't work. We did comparative checks by moving large data files across 64K lines between two cities in the UK. One of the lines was handled by a pair of ACC Niles. The Niles achieved roughly 50% compression: with compression on, the files were transferred in half the time. The ET cards achieved perhaps 8-10% compression: the files were transferred in 90-92% of the time. Compression was not the major factor in the decision. The N2d software doesn't compress either -- but SDL don't claim to have working compression. You did. And after we bought three boards we were told that compression is a "feature", which in your version of English appears to me that it doesn't have to work as described. > compression couldnt compete with specialized compression routers. Compression > is a "feature". You also refused to send me your config files and that We did not refuse to send anything. > you didn't have the thing configured correctly (ala the panics). You never did > what I asked you to do...I can't help those that dont want it. Other > not-so-thinking > people did fine with the manuals provided We did fairly extensive checking. When you occasionally stopped ranting at us and sent coherent instructions we followed them. At the time we were evaluating alternatives. The bottom line is that we did not choose to buy any further ET products because the ET cards came in third in our evaluation. Your attitude did not help, of course. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:21:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19319 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19307 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA25895; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:27:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:27:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141727.MAA25895@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jim Dixon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J. Dixon writes... >Dennis, your software was not stable. It was very unreliable. Certain >features just did not work. You were testing advanced features before getting the basic configuration right. Comparing the "stability" of a product you have years of experience configuring to one you have 1 week or experience with is simply inappropriate. You made exactly 0 phone calls to get support...it was obvious you were simply building a list of complaints... Happily others have has more luck. Others will testify that if you give me what I ask for....the problem is fixed in a very short time. thats what support is. db From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:25:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19690 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:25:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA19681 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA25419; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:24:38 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611141724.LAA25419@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:24:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Steve" at Nov 14, 96 08:58:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > We at GaiaNet are currently considering switching from PBI.Net to > > CRL in a T1 link and are planning to purchase a new router as our current > > router from WellFleet overloads and has too many probems. We are > > considering the Emerging Technologies Router Interface Card for FreeBSD > > but has anyone compared the performance of this to something like a Cisco > > 2501? Thanks for any advice you can offer. > > Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with freebsd's > tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, if my freebsd's are > not the other side of my cisco from them. For instance, if they were to > pull headers from a new server on the same subnet, the news server being > freebsd, it would stop.. Same with web pages. One of my clients is an ISP with well over a thousand (local) lines, they have not reported any such problems to me... the news servers are FreeBSD. Just a data point, ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:29:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19873 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA19868 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06343; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:59:20 EST." <199611141659.LAA25726@etinc.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:29:16 -0800 Message-ID: <6341.847992556@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You might not like what I say, but what I say is the truth. I think that > public vendettas are equally repugnant, so you can decide for > yourself which is less appropriate. It's not what you say which bothers me, but rather (what I consider to be) the inappropriate corporate policy it suggests. In any event, it appears that the public vendetta war is already well under way between yourself and Jim Dixon and the damage is clearly done. I'll bow out again. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:32:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20088 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20053 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA25430; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:27:13 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611141727.LAA25430@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:27:13 -0600 (CST) Cc: dg@root.com, jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 14, 96 03:39:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > > > I'm sure you misunderstood what Dennis said. I'm sure he knows that T1's > > are DS1 speed (1.544Mbits/second). > > You're probably right since I asked him if a 10MBps or 10/100Mbps > card would be better for the ethernet from the machine and he said, the > max is 3MBps, 1.544MBps in/1.544MBps out full deplex. Remember that an Ethernet starts getting rather crowded around that point (at least if you believe in low latency and high performance, like I do) which means that you do not want tons of other traffic on such a wire. You might want to get the 10/100 card given that the current prices are really not that far apart, and it will not limit you in the future. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:42:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20670 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20661 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16230; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:42:20 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:42:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141727.MAA25895@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >Dennis, your software was not stable. It was very unreliable. Certain > >features just did not work. > > You were testing advanced features before getting the basic configuration > right. Comparing the "stability" of a product you have years of experience > configuring to one you have 1 week or experience with is simply > inappropriate. You made exactly 0 phone calls to get support...it was > obvious you were simply building a list of complaints... Dennis, you should learn to leave well enough alone. We did call and email for support. That is when we were told that the other two manuals weren't missing, you just weren't going to supply them; that yes the manual was out of date but it didn't matter because you would fax through some (some!) of the new pages; that yes some of the software didn't work but it was an easy bug to fix and you would fix it and we could FTP it from your server (which we did); and oh by the way compression didn't work and we were dumb sh*ts for expecting it to work because it was only a feature; and my god didn't we complain a lot ... We were evaluating products, none of which we were very familiar with. Part of the evaluation was looking at the quality of the support team at the supplier. Hello, Dennis. > Happily others have has more luck. Others will testify that if you give > me what I ask for....the problem is fixed in a very short time. thats what > support is. If you calmly read what I wrote before you started this mini flame war, you would see that I speculated that support might have improved. I used to see you flaming people all of the time on bsid-users and this list, but for some time there has been none of this. We speculated here that perhaps your business was going better and you had mellowed out a little. Guess we were wrong ;-) -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 09:51:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA21401 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA21390 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from saguaro.flyingfox.com (saguaro.flyingfox.com [204.188.109.253]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA03942 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jas@localhost) by saguaro.flyingfox.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id JAA17568; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:47:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:47:05 -0800 From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199611141747.JAA17568@saguaro.flyingfox.com> To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required to write and maintain drivers? Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:10:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22451 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22408 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id UAA15853; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:09:57 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611141809.UAA15853@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141747.JAA17568@saguaro.flyingfox.com> from Jim Shankland at "Nov 14, 96 09:47:05 am" To: jas@flyingfox.COM (Jim Shankland) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:09:56 +0200 (SAT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required > to write and maintain drivers? > > Jim Shankland > Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. > Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. The bulk of the driver has to do with the Hitachi HD64570 chip that the board is using and that information is in the Hitachi data sheets. The information about how the chip is interfaced to the rest of the board is actually very little, because most (all) of the work is done by the chip. The rest of the board is actually just RAM, bus arbitration logic and line drivers. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:17:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23204 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@p23.pm-4.pm.dimensional.com [206.100.130.119]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23194 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01454; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:16:58 -0700 Message-ID: <328B6219.35123980@w3page.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:16:57 -0700 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.25 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Dixon CC: dennis , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A couple of people wrote: is so is not is so . is not . . is so . . . . . is not . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why doncha take the flames and insults to private e-mail, rather than filling up our mailboxes with em... Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:23:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23563 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from saguaro.flyingfox.com (saguaro.flyingfox.com [204.188.109.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23553 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jas@localhost) by saguaro.flyingfox.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id KAA17779; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:20:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:20:32 -0800 From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199611141820.KAA17779@saguaro.flyingfox.com> To: richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, shovey@buffnet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve writes: > Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with > freebsd's tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, > if my freebsd's are not the other side of my cisco from them. > For instance, if they were to pull headers from a new server > on the same subnet, the news server being freebsd, it would > stop.. Same with web pages. I find this annoying. I'm sure you were having problems, and that interposing a Cisco between your users and your FreeBSD servers made the problem go away; but realize that "something [being] just a bit off with FreeBSD's tcp/ip" is not the only, nor indeed the most likely, explanation of the things you observed. Did you make any effort to investigate the problem (e.g., packet traces)? Did you report the problem? Or did you just try something (interposing the Cisco) and find that the problem went away? If so, fair enough; everybody's busy. But then you can't draw conclusions about what was wrong in the first place. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:27:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23833 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23826 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13429; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:28:43 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: David Greenman cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141150.DAA10526@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, David Greenman wrote: > >Pentium 75Mhz with 16MB of RAM. We had been in contact with Paul Berggren > >in Sales for CRL Networking and he said that we can get a T1 router for as > >low as $650 but what kind of router would it be? > > You'll have to ask him. I have a feeling it won't be a Cisco for sure > >FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking > >at Walnut Creek, > > Yes, that is correct. Good. > > we were wondering what are your experiences with CRL and > >how good is their peering with other ISPs? Thanks. Hope someone else who > >has the FreeBSD+card can share their experiences with us. > > They have very good peering. Their backbone was overloaded, but they've > made some changes to mitigate the problem until some additional long-haul DS3 > circuits are installed. They have major networking facilities in both San > Francisco and DC with 45Mbit/sec connections to most of the major NAPs. From the information they sent me, I had an impression they had a 100MBps ATM backbone and the connections between the major NAps were ATM as well. So it's really DS3 or did they just do yet another upgrade? > This is not to say that things have been completely rosey. CRL didn't have > "direct" peering with Sprint until just a month ago, and they didn't have a > fiber/gigaswitch connection at MAE-east until just a week or so ago (it was > previously just 10Mbit ethernet). Their backbone still sucks and I was seeing > >75% packet loss on it as recently as last week. They don't connect to the > Chicago or NY NAPs ("only" MAE-east, MAE-west, PB-NAP, and CIX SMDS). Hmmm okay.... Atleast it seems they are way better from the sounds of it than our current provider PBI.Net which uses AGIS.Net as the backbone and refuses to peer with anyone. I guess from what you are saying, it seems like they are a company that atleast is upgrading as time goes on. As for the >75% packet loss on their backbone, which sites for example were you connecting to? SprintLink is even worst after all the Northern UC Campuses went into a SMDS cloud and out one DS3 to their Stockton hub, we've been getting 95% packet loss after the switch from BBNPlanet to SprintLink 2 weeks ago. Thanks for the info though. We've been doing our research and found that MCI, Sprint, PBI/AGIS are the ones to stay away from. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:40:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24876 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24867 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA18775 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:38:44 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa10592; 14 Nov 96 13:41 EST Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:41:34 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Jim Shankland cc: richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141820.KAA17779@saguaro.flyingfox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Shankland wrote: > Steve writes: > > > Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with > > freebsd's tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, > I find this annoying. I'm sure you were having problems, and that > interposing a Cisco between your users and your FreeBSD servers > made the problem go away; but realize that "something [being] > just a bit off with FreeBSD's tcp/ip" is not the only, nor indeed > the most likely, explanation of the things you observed. > > Did you make any effort to investigate the problem (e.g., packet > traces)? Did you report the problem? Or did you just try > something (interposing the Cisco) and find that the problem went > away? If so, fair enough; everybody's busy. But then you can't > draw conclusions about what was wrong in the first place. > I dont know the underlying low level of tcp/ip enough to run a packet trace and interpret results. I did report this on freebsd lists and the usenet news group. All I got was "BSD is the standard - you must be crasy". I could come to no other resolution than to put them on the other side of a router. The problem did not exist with all 'dialers in' - just a subset, but a subset with no connecting features other than that they used PPP. I dont experience the problem with linux boxes or the SCO's (I have both) - Just the freebsd's later than version 2.0 (it was not until 2.0.5 that the problem arose) with or without the extensions enabled. I know that to get it fixed I would have to become a low level freebsd tcp/ip expert, find and fix it myself at the source level. I dont have the time for that. So it might annoy you, but I found it very annoying to spend a week trouble shooting 3 web servers, and another week trouble shooting an identicle problem with a news server, only because I had switched to freebsd on them - and then could only resolve it by putting them the other side of a cisco - because Im crasy and BSD is perfect. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:49:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25438 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25431 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA16547; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:48:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:48:46 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jim Dixon cc: John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > > HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps > > > > > > This is the number you care about. PPP, Cisco HDLC, and frame relay > > > run on top of raw HDLC. We have never cranked them up to 12 Mbps ;-) > > > but they work fine at 2 Mbps or T1. > > > > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, > > isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those > > numbers for? > > You can use the board for other purposes, possibly with different > daughterboards. It has nothing to do with 'the ethernet side', which > is handled by the Pentium. I forgot a T1 was synchronous. > > T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed > > going in and out combined... > > Well, of course, it's bidirectional. But everybody else thinks that > T1 is 1.536 Mbps or so. > > We run N2Ds at 2 Mbps (or 4 Mbps if you want to count it that way) > with no trouble at all. That's good to know. Thanks for the info. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:50:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25533 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25526 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA00283 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA26440; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:50:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:50:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141850.NAA26440@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I may have extremely unflattering things to say about Microsoft from >time to time, but they're still more than happy to sell me copies of >Windows if I'm nonetheless forced to buy them, and I daresay that Bill >(if he even cared) would find the concept of one of his detractors >buying his product to be deliciously ironic, and probably some of the >sweetest bucks of all. > >I hope that you'll reconsider that statement and possibly retract it. >You're supposed to be a businessman, not the male incarnation of Za Za >Gabor. Yeah, but "Bill" doesn't have to support the idiots himself....its like they say about some women, no matter how pretty they are, sometimes they just ain't worth the trouble! Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 10:54:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25833 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25759 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA25686; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:51:44 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611141851.MAA25686@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: PPP/LCP sensing getty To: johns@cruz.isle.net (John Scharles) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:51:43 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961114030634.00943980@isle.net> from "John Scharles" at Nov 13, 96 07:06:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I looked in "ftp.freebsd.sol.net/incoming/" for the pppgetty source but > didn't see it there.....is it old enough to walk on its own? :) You have to do a blind fetch, it's there. It's been in production use for half a year, and is by far the most popular way to log in via PPP here. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:03:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26342 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26335 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA25736; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:02:27 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611141902.NAA25736@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: inn: no_space2 To: rg@plusnet.de (Richard Gresek) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:02:27 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611132348.AAA16231@gds.de> from "Richard Gresek" at Nov 14, 96 00:47:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hallo, > > thanks for the help I=B4ve got from this list for the installation of > inn. > > Now, inn is up and running and gets his feed. > > But when I try to connect with a news-client from the PC, the PC > gives me the message "503 NNTP server unavailable". > The FreeBSD host says: > > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de connect > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de internal no_space2 "..." > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de internal no_space2 "..." > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de cant getgrouplist Undefin= > ed error: 0 > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de exit articles0 groups 0 > Nov 14 00:42:30 pluto nnrpd[282]: pc1.plusnet.de times user 0.014 system 0= > .007 elapsed 0.014 (This belongs on news.software.nntp... it has nothing to do with FreeBSD itself.) I would estimate that your active file is messed up. Shut down news. % vi /usr/local/news/active :se list 3b.config 0000000753 0000000715 y$ 3b.misc 0000001069 0000001039 y$ 3b.test 0000002557 0000002495 y$ Make sure there is precisely one space after the group and before the number. Make sure you have enough digits (notice I use 10). Make sure there is precisely one space before and after the second number. Etc. This is not a whitespace tolerant file. That is what the complaint is hinting at. No blank lines allowed. No extra spaces. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:10:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26852 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from serbia.it.earthlink.net (serbia-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.125]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26847 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (max1-800-44.earthlink.net [206.149.205.45]) by serbia.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18212 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:09:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <328B6C28.3357@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:59:53 -0800 From: Steven Swanson Reply-To: whatname@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: E-Mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please Remove my name from your E-mailing List. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:16:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA27259 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27249 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA26647 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:22:08 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:22:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199611141922.OAA26647@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J dixon writes... >All of my comments and Dennis's replies are of interest to people >who are about to make a decision along these lines. We did a careful >evaluation of competing products. I was quite circumspect in what I >said because I thought that perhaps Dennis had improved his products >and he did seem to have stopped starting flame wars. Dunno about >product improvements but I guess he is still into flame wars. > >This too is of interest to people who might buy an ET product. We >bought three of his boards, asked for support, got very little, but >are still getting attacked in public. You are lying to people who are looking for an objective opinion, which you dont have. Unfortunatly there is one of you in every world, so I guess we just have to grin and bear it. Since there are few others that share your opinions, hopefully others will understand their origins. I tried to help you, and you sent me volumes of "results" from a misconfigured machine and felt compelled to badger me on a daily basis. I asked your people to either provide a more cooperative contact or return the product. Support is a two way effort..... Usually, once they deal with SDL for awhile they know the truth themselves... the SDL product for BSD/OS was written by BSDI....the FreeBSD product is not comparable so most of your "experience" is irrelevant to this discussion. db From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:31:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28478 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28468 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA28591; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:31:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:29:12 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Steve cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve wrote: > Go with the cisco! There is something just a bit off with freebsd's > tcp/ip. I have a subgroup of users who get stalls, if my freebsd's are > not the other side of my cisco from them. For instance, if they were to > pull headers from a new server on the same subnet, the news server being > freebsd, it would stop.. Same with web pages. Have you used tcpdump to investigate this? "Something just a bit off" doesn't mean anything to me. If putting your FreeBSD boxes behind a router fixes things, then I have a hard time believing that it is a TCP/IP problem. Remember, routers do layer 3 switching, which means the problem is most likely at layer 2 or layer 1. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:37:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29021 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28824 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA29566; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:35:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:33:35 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Stefan Molnar cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Stefan Molnar wrote: > > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, > > isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those > > numbers for? T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed > > going in and out combined... > > When did that happen? We have two right now load ballanced on a cisco > 7010. We wanted to change it to a simplex config, but the cisco can > not handle it. Why do you want to make your T1s simplex? I assume you are paying the telco for both pairs, so why not use them? -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29326 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail40.colybrand.com (mail40.colybrand.com [192.208.44.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29314 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail40.colybrand.com; id AA05174; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:43:16 -0500 Received: from smtpgw2 by flpa03; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/03Apr96-1214PM) id AA09493; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:38:20 -0500 Received: by SMTPGW2.colybrand.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA6547; Thu, 14 Nov 96 14:41:12 -0800 Message-Id: <9611142241.AA6547@SMTPGW2.colybrand.com> Received: by C&L US SMTP (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id D6F51B1B34D1F40E852563E2006B9434; Thu, 14 Nov 96 14:41:12 EDT To: isp From: msimon03 Date: 14 Nov 96 14:33:07 EDT Subject: Internet Access with a Static IP address. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Is there any ISPs willing to give me a dial-up access to the internet with a Static IP address, at a reasonable price. I live in the city of Elizabeth, NJ. The first six digits of my phone number are (908)-629. I am a software professional planning to develop a web-related software program using my spare time. Please email me directly. Thanks, Mathew Simon. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 11:57:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00710 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00558 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA02159; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:48:19 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Jim Dixon cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jim Dixon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Veggy Vinny wrote: > > > > Nothing to be ashamed of. Two of the largest networks in the world, > > > IBM and ans.net, use UNIX-based routers running gated. > > > > Really? I thought they used Cisco's or Cascade. > > No. ans.net has two separate autonomous systems, one (AS690) using > gated boxes and the other (just being implemented, I think), using > Bay routers. AS690 is gone. Woohoo. The transition to Bay is complete, according to Curtis Villamizer at the last NANOG. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:04:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA01457 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA01451 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA16549; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:05:01 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:05:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Bradley Dunn cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Bradley Dunn wrote: > > No. ans.net has two separate autonomous systems, one (AS690) using > > gated boxes and the other (just being implemented, I think), using > > Bay routers. > > AS690 is gone. Woohoo. The transition to Bay is complete, according to > Curtis Villamizer at the last NANOG. sho ip bgp regexp _690_ How sad. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:25:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA02798 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02788 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA27089 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:28:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:28:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199611142028.PAA27089@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Router Purchase - the bottom line Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This discussion is getting really stupid...... Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs ET is a simple one...... 1) you dont have to know unix to use a cisco 2) Ciscos are fine if you have 1 ethernet and 1 T1. More than that they have questionable horsepower.... 2) cisco are just routers....Freebsd boxes are servers also and clearly more flexible and expandable. As for which card to buy...different vendors have different options and features and prices. You have to do your homework to determine which you prefer. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:33:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03300 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03294 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id PAA01772; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:51:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:51:18 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Bradley Dunn cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > When did that happen? We have two right now load ballanced on a cisco > > 7010. We wanted to change it to a simplex config, but the cisco can > > not handle it. > > Why do you want to make your T1s simplex? I assume you are paying the > telco for both pairs, so why not use them? We have only one with the telco, the other is with cox fibernet. But we just got mux units when the 3rd comes in. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:37:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03555 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03549 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA27188; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:41:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:41:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199611142041.PAA27188@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk People wrote.... >> > > > Don't buy a 2501. You can get a lot more performance for the same >> > > > amount of money using FreeBSD and sync serial cards. >> >> I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list >> active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very >> close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. > >Excellent! Ciscos run fine with 1 ethernet and 1 serial....as you can only move 3mbs (full duplex) through the box....with 2 ethernets you can have big problems, and with 2 busy T1s you can have problems also, depending on your traffic characteristics. A freebsd box with multiple interfaces is much more comparable to a 4500 series, in which case the price differential is a major fact for UNIX. dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:39:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03622 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from saguaro.flyingfox.com (saguaro.flyingfox.com [204.188.109.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03614 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jas@localhost) by saguaro.flyingfox.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id MAA18245; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:36:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:36:22 -0800 From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199611142036.MAA18245@saguaro.flyingfox.com> To: jas@flyingfox.COM, shovey@buffnet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org, richardc@csua.berkeley.edu Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have no intention or desire to get into a flamefest on this, but let me just clarify a little, and I'll say no more on the subject: Steve writes: > I know that to get it fixed I would have to become a low level > freebsd tcp/ip expert, find and fix it myself at the source > level. I dont have the time for that. So it might annoy you, > but I found it very annoying to spend a week trouble shooting 3 > web servers, and another week trouble shooting an identicle > problem with a news server, only because I had switched to > freebsd on them - and then could only resolve it by putting them > the other side of a cisco - because Im crasy and BSD is perfect. I assume you're not crazy, and I know BSD is not perfect. I understand that not everyone has the expertise or the time to investigate this kind of problem; you worked around it instead, and that's fine. But then you cannot reasonably assert that "there is something a bit off with FreeBSD's TCP/IP"; you simply haven't collected enough evidence to support that statement. If you can reproduce the problem, and can give me dialup access to the FreeBSD machine while the problem is occurring, I can probably figure out what's going on. Phone charges are on me, provided you're in the continental US; otherwise, they're on you. If you don't want to bother, that's perfectly reasonable; but then don't criticize what you ... ummm ... can't understand (sorry, Bob :-)). Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:41:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03854 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03848 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA25950; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:40:03 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611142040.OAA25950@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:40:02 -0600 (CST) Cc: jas@flyingfox.com, richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve" at Nov 14, 96 01:41:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I find this annoying. I'm sure you were having problems, and that > > interposing a Cisco between your users and your FreeBSD servers > > made the problem go away; but realize that "something [being] > > just a bit off with FreeBSD's tcp/ip" is not the only, nor indeed > > the most likely, explanation of the things you observed. > > > > Did you make any effort to investigate the problem (e.g., packet > > traces)? Did you report the problem? Or did you just try > > something (interposing the Cisco) and find that the problem went > > away? If so, fair enough; everybody's busy. But then you can't > > draw conclusions about what was wrong in the first place. > > > > I dont know the underlying low level of tcp/ip enough to run a packet > trace and interpret results. I did report this on freebsd lists and the > usenet news group. All I got was "BSD is the standard - you must be > crasy". > > I could come to no other resolution than to put them on the other side of > a router. The problem did not exist with all 'dialers in' - just a > subset, but a subset with no connecting features other than that they used > PPP. > > I dont experience the problem with linux boxes or the SCO's (I have > both) - Just the freebsd's later than version 2.0 (it was not until 2.0.5 > that the problem arose) with or without the extensions enabled. > > I know that to get it fixed I would have to become a low level freebsd > tcp/ip expert, find and fix it myself at the source level. I dont have > the time for that. So it might annoy you, but I found it very annoying to > spend a week trouble shooting 3 web servers, and another week trouble > shooting an identicle problem with a news server, only because I had > switched to freebsd on them - and then could only resolve it by putting > them the other side of a cisco - because Im crasy and BSD is perfect. I don't think BSD is perfect, but having served over four BILLION packets over the last three and a half months to the dial-in pool of Wisconsin's largest end user ISP, with an extremely diverse and unusual customer base, I find the "BSD TCP/IP is faulty" bit a little hard to swallow. You will naturally have to excuse my skepticism. I'm just as inclined to believe that you had crappy terminal servers that couldn't quite keep up with Ethernet "back-to-back packet" speeds. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:42:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03914 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03906 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:42:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA03142; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:40:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:40:34 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Greenman , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <4989.847978131@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Ah David, just the person we were looking for. :-) So the Cisco > > 2501 isn't that good of a router? How much does it cost for the 4000 and > > is there a AccessPC Card version of it? We're going to install the Dual > > I think you should talk to Cisco - David is unlikely to be a walking > price book for Cisco products. :-) I know, I wanted to know how much it costed you guys for the 4000 :-) I know what a 2501, 2507 and 7010 costs but never encountered a 4000 series before. > > Pentium 75Mhz with 16MB of RAM. We had been in contact with Paul Berggren > > in Sales for CRL Networking and he said that we can get a T1 router for as > > low as $650 but what kind of router would it be? He did ask us what kind > > Ask Paul? :-) I did and he was talking about a CSU/DSU instead of a router... > > of router we have now but what would be the correct answer for the > > FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking > > "We're using FreeBSD and a sync-serial card." :-) I just hope ISPs don't have anything against Unix based routers. :-) Ofcourse I can say that FreeBSD has kicked everything else so far including SUN SparcStation 20's so it should do very well... :-) Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:47:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04206 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunasci.informador.com.mx (sunasci.infored.com.mx [200.13.66.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04197 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from felipe@localhost) by sunasci.informador.com.mx (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA01199; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:44:04 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:44:03 +0000 () From: Felipe Rivera Marquez To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141922.OAA26647@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mmmmm.. what is this list about??? ISP's or personal wars???? Is it allowed? Thanx (yep, this is crap too) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 12:59:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04989 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04980 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 12:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA05802; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:00:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:00:13 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Alan Batie cc: dg@Root.COM, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, chad@gaianet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Alan Batie wrote: > > 2501 isn't that good of a router? How much does it cost for the 4000 and > > is there a AccessPC Card version of it? > > I'm a bit rusty, but my recollection is this: > > The 2501 uses a medium to low speed 68000 processor and does no "fast > switching" (i.e. the interface has a cache w/hardware to look up routes > without involving the processor, which just processes routing updates > and downloads the tables into the cache). It's a 68030. > The AccessPC card is a version of the 2501 that plugs into a PC, but > all it does is get power and save space. You still have to have a > Ethernet card in the PC and run drops from both cards to your LAN. Yep, that's true but the AccessPC card is less expensive. > The 4000M uses the same or a little faster 68000, and does do some fast > switching. The 4500 uses a 100Mhz MIPS processor, and the 4700 uses a > 133Mhz MIPS. > > I don't remember pricing on the 4000, but the 4500/4700 with ethernet > and high speed serial interfaces are something around $15K. Never seen a 4000 series before. Only the 2501, 2507 (2501 with 16 ethernet ports) and a 7010. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 13:19:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06725 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:19:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06716 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA07719; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:14:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:14:32 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: dg@root.com, jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141727.LAA25430@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > You're probably right since I asked him if a 10MBps or 10/100Mbps > > card would be better for the ethernet from the machine and he said, the > > max is 3MBps, 1.544MBps in/1.544MBps out full deplex. > > Remember that an Ethernet starts getting rather crowded around that point > (at least if you believe in low latency and high performance, like I do) > which means that you do not want tons of other traffic on such a wire. > > You might want to get the 10/100 card given that the current prices are > really not that far apart, and it will not limit you in the future. We are getting the SMC 10/100 cards but reading the recent FreeBSD mailing lists from Rod and others, it seems like there is currently a problem with the drivers with the newer chips used on these cards so until the cards are supported, then we need to either wait or just go try to look for cards with the older chip ending with DST. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 13:24:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07203 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07137 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA16696; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:24:45 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:24:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Michael Dillon cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > You should call ET and specifically ask about this problem. It the device > was too high on some units due to a socket that may have been solved by > mounting it directly with no socket so this may no longer be a problem on > newer units. I am describing the three boards that we purchased for evaluation. I believe that Dennis said that this product was solved in more recent versions of the board. > > The Cisco 2501 would be my last choice. If you are using PPP or Cisco > > HDLC to talk to your provider, I would recommend the SDL card plus John > > Hays' FreeBSD driver. If you are using frame relay the ET card is the > > only choice with FreeBSD. > > > > Last time I checked the ET card was significantly more expensive than > > the SDL card. > > Before deciding this you should read the info at http://www.etinc.com that > compares the ET and other products. You should of course also check prices at http://www.sdlcomm.com and, sure, go ahead and call your local Cisco distributor. You would be surprised how much a 68020-based system with a couple of megabytes of memory can cost. Incidentally, if you do not expect to need more than one WAN port in the near future and if you do not have complex routing requirements, there are considerably cheaper products from reliable vendors such as Livingston that have one ethernet port and one sync serial port at prices in the $500 - $800 range. These typically can handle either frame relay or PPP on the T1 port. They cost far less than the Cisco and considerably less than a PC plus either an SDL or ET card. We have started supplying these to customers. For mid-range multi-port routers we recommend the N2pci, which puts two high-speed ports into each PCI slot. A P133 with three N2PCIs and a DEC 100 Mbps ethernet card makes for an impressive machine -- at perhaps 20-30% of the cost of an equivalent Cisco 4700 series box. For high-speed routers we would like to use the new SDL DS3 card, but there don't appear to be any drivers for it yet. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 13:44:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08487 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08476 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from chimp.jnx.com (chimp.jnx.com [208.197.169.246]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19757; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tli@localhost) by chimp.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA04452; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:42:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:42:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611142142.NAA04452@chimp.jnx.com> From: Tony Li To: stefan@exis.net (Stefan Molnar) Cc: Jim Dixon , John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase References: Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know what you mean but what about for the Ethernet side of it, > isn't that Asynchronous speed in any way related or what were those > numbers for? T1 actually is 3Mbps accourding to Dennis at ET, T1 speed > going in and out combined... When did that happen? We have two right now load ballanced on a cisco 7010. We wanted to change it to a simplex config, but the cisco can not handle it. Not only that, but the copper can't handle it. T1 is by definition a full duplex media. You cannot cause a T1 to be simplex. Tony From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 13:50:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08822 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08817 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA02153; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:08:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:08:39 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Tony Li cc: Jim Dixon , John Hay , Chad Shackley , isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142142.NAA04452@chimp.jnx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Not only that, but the copper can't handle it. T1 is by definition a full > duplex media. You cannot cause a T1 to be simplex. It is possiable in a test environment, when there are twp cisco on both ends. It is a config line within the routers os. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 13:55:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09114 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09104 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA23841; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:54:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:52:19 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Steve cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve wrote: > I could come to no other resolution than to put them on the other side of > a router. The problem did not exist with all 'dialers in' - just a > subset, but a subset with no connecting features other than that they used > PPP. > > I dont experience the problem with linux boxes or the SCO's (I have > both) - Just the freebsd's later than version 2.0 (it was not until 2.0.5 > that the problem arose) with or without the extensions enabled. > > I know that to get it fixed I would have to become a low level freebsd > tcp/ip expert, find and fix it myself at the source level. I dont have > the time for that. So it might annoy you, but I found it very annoying to > spend a week trouble shooting 3 web servers, and another week trouble > shooting an identicle problem with a news server, only because I had > switched to freebsd on them - and then could only resolve it by putting > them the other side of a cisco - because Im crasy and BSD is perfect. There is a door. Everytime you walk through that door, you hit your head. You discover that by separating your head from your body, you no longer hit your head when you go through the door. Was the problem solved? Yes. Was the correct cause indenified? No. You don't want to use FreeBSD, fine. Just don't claim it's broken because you don't want to do the work to find out what the real problem is. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:03:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09650 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09643 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id OAA30201; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:06:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:06:19 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: shadow To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Where can I get the shadow package for FreeBSD? Anyone know if it's compatible with Linux's shadow? Is it the ssh package? I'm still confused as how to grab FreeBSD packages, because whenever I go into ftp.freebsd.org, I'll se the packages/ports but NOT the .tar.gz file that's supposed to be grabbed. Thanks! Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:19:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10647 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10629 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA27830; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:24:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:24:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199611142224.RAA27830@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hay From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required >> to write and maintain drivers? >> >> Jim Shankland >> Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. >> > >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. > >The bulk of the driver has to do with the Hitachi HD64570 chip that the >board is using and that information is in the Hitachi data sheets. The >information about how the chip is interfaced to the rest of the board >is actually very little, because most (all) of the work is done by the >chip. The rest of the board is actually just RAM, bus arbitration logic >and line drivers. gee, sounds just like their (and our) original "archaic" board designs! Wonder what Jim was talking about....... db From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:20:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10831 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10707 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18926; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:17:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611142217.QAA18926@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: Veggy Vinny cc: David Greenman , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-reply-to: richardc's message of Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:28:42 -0800. X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:17:54 -0600 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmmm okay.... Atleast it seems they are way better from the > sounds of it than our current provider PBI.Net which uses AGIS.Net as the > backbone and refuses to peer with anyone. I guess from what you are > saying, it seems like they are a company that atleast is upgrading as time > goes on. As for the >75% packet loss on their backbone, which sites for > example were you connecting to? SprintLink is even worst after all the > Northern UC Campuses went into a SMDS cloud and out one DS3 to their > Stockton hub, we've been getting 95% packet loss after the switch from > BBNPlanet to SprintLink 2 weeks ago. Thanks for the info though. We've > been doing our research and found that MCI, Sprint, PBI/AGIS are the ones > to stay away from. > > Vince Just for my own edification... It often seems that MCI,Sprint get a bad rap. I'm not an employee or stockholder, but if I'm not mistaken it would be my _rough_ guess that between these two providers, they are carring probably 80% of the traffic on the net (remember, that was a guess). By "staying away from" these two giants, what do you gain? Doesn't your traffic eventually get handled by them? Don't you stand a better chance of getting your traffic routed if you are a customer of Sprint or MCI? >From an occasional glance at things, it would seem that _most_ of the Sprint/MCI problems I see are with border routers not handling the traffic that needs to get on their backbones. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:25:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11241 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:25:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11183 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from chimp.jnx.com (chimp.jnx.com [208.197.169.246]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA21406; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tli@localhost) by chimp.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA04527; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:22:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:22:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611142222.OAA04527@chimp.jnx.com> From: Tony Li To: stefan@exis.net CC: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Molnar on Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:08:39 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Not only that, but the copper can't handle it. T1 is by definition a full > duplex media. You cannot cause a T1 to be simplex. It is possiable in a test environment, when there are twp cisco on both ends. It is a config line within the routers os. Sorry, no, you can't. The config line within IOS is for doing simplex _Ethernet_ and it never really worked well there. I know, I used to maintain it. ;-) Tony From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:27:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11329 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11323 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA00673 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11382; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:57:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611142157.PAA11382@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Veggy Vinny" , "David Greenman" Cc: , "Chad Shackley" Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:22:51 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > goes on. As for the >75% packet loss on their backbone, which sites for > example were you connecting to? SprintLink is even worst after all the > Northern UC Campuses went into a SMDS cloud and out one DS3 to their > Stockton hub, we've been getting 95% packet loss after the switch from > BBNPlanet to SprintLink 2 weeks ago. Thanks for the info though. We've > been doing our research and found that MCI, Sprint, PBI/AGIS are the ones > to stay away from. My upstream is connected to mae-hou and UUNET, and I have been nothing but pleased. I hear the LA UUNET drop is oversold though. JS From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:28:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11469 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:28:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from handset.laa.com (laa.com [204.7.172.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11451 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tdf_ltd by handset.laa.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA25266; Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:24:33 -0500 Message-Id: <9611142224.AA25266@handset.laa.com> Received: by tdf_ltd.laa.com (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA17880; Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:24:35 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Gary Stanny Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:24:34 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org, sales@etinc.com Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase - Dennis beating his chest Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >>I hope that you'll reconsider that statement and possibly retract it. >>You're supposed to be a businessman, not the male incarnation of Za Za >>Gabor. > >Yeah, but "Bill" doesn't have to support the idiots himself....its like they >say about some women, no matter how pretty they are, sometimes >they just ain't worth the trouble! Your view of your customers is amazing. I hope you own ET because if you worked for me - you'd be toast. In the months I have been lurking on this list I have heard you start numerous flame wars, you never listen to what anybody else says because you clearly know all. And as you are confronted with facts you just get childishly louder & louder and more insulting. Please do us all a favor and either lurk or leave, but shut up. And Jordan's right (but maybe not strong enought). > >Za Za - (Dennis) > cheers gary Gary Stanny Lynn-Arthur Associates, Inc. +1 313 995 5590 stanny@laa.com Operations Support Systems +1 313 995 5989 (fax) 2350 Green Road Suite 160 Ann Arbor, MI, 48105 USA From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:31:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11746 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11737 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20251; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:32:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Randy Terbush cc: David Greenman , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142217.QAA18926@sierra.zyzzyva.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Randy Terbush wrote: > > > Hmmm okay.... Atleast it seems they are way better from the > > sounds of it than our current provider PBI.Net which uses AGIS.Net as the > > backbone and refuses to peer with anyone. I guess from what you are > > saying, it seems like they are a company that atleast is upgrading as time > > goes on. As for the >75% packet loss on their backbone, which sites for > > example were you connecting to? SprintLink is even worst after all the > > Northern UC Campuses went into a SMDS cloud and out one DS3 to their > > Stockton hub, we've been getting 95% packet loss after the switch from > > BBNPlanet to SprintLink 2 weeks ago. Thanks for the info though. We've > > been doing our research and found that MCI, Sprint, PBI/AGIS are the ones > > to stay away from. > > > > Vince > > Just for my own edification... > > It often seems that MCI,Sprint get a bad rap. I'm not an employee > or stockholder, but if I'm not mistaken it would be my _rough_ guess that > between these two providers, they are carring probably 80% of the traffic > on the net (remember, that was a guess). They are but they are proven to have high packet loss rates... > By "staying away from" these two giants, what do you gain? Performance... > Doesn't your traffic eventually get handled by them? Well, UCBerkeley used to be with BBNPlanet and is on SprintLink... All the traffic lags at the SprintLink Stockton MAE-WEST hub and is experiencing packet loss and this is a DS3 connection directly to stockton. > Don't you stand a better chance of getting your traffic routed > if you are a customer of Sprint or MCI? Not really. ANS.Net is big too.... AlterNet is as well. > >From an occasional glance at things, it would seem that _most_ of the > Sprint/MCI problems I see are with border routers not handling the > traffic that needs to get on their backbones. Not really because this was from Sprintlink to a Sprintlink site and if that doesn't work well then how can you expect it to work well for other things? Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:36:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12184 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12157 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21118; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:37:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Jacob Suter cc: David Greenman , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142157.PAA11382@intrastar.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Jacob Suter wrote: > We've > > been doing our research and found that MCI, Sprint, PBI/AGIS are > the ones > > to stay away from. > > My upstream is connected to mae-hou and UUNET, and I have been > nothing but pleased. I hear the LA UUNET drop is oversold though. Okay, so that takes Alternet/UUNet out of the picture as GaiaNet is in Beverly Hills... Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:41:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12649 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:41:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12644 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA02406; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:59:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:59:11 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Tony Li cc: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142222.OAA04527@chimp.jnx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry, no, you can't. The config line within IOS is for doing simplex > _Ethernet_ and it never really worked well there. I know, I used to > maintain it. ;-) That was one idea a few months ago, but we got some MegaT ds1 mux units for better threwput, since the cisco can not handle the load ballance of the 2 Ts that are on it. But from everything that I have seen, from the o'really books, to the lame teachings of my cne lessions, and people from cisco and andersen consulting say a t1 run at 1.54 (after all the overhead). If it was that high, 3.0 then something is wrong in IEEE land. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:50:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13539 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13502 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA26387; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:45:37 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611142245.QAA26387@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:45:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 14, 96 12:40:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > of router we have now but what would be the correct answer for the > > > FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking > > > > "We're using FreeBSD and a sync-serial card." :-) > > I just hope ISPs don't have anything against Unix based routers. > :-) Ofcourse I can say that FreeBSD has kicked everything else so far > including SUN SparcStation 20's so it should do very well... :-) Vince, In this business, you can try to dictate what customers must do - and you will probably lose some customers. It is best to try to recommend what you are familiar with, so that you can assist customers, and they can benefit from your experiences, but if a customer wants to do something different, you either let them or lose them. If your new ISP does not like a UNIX based router, too bad. My upstream provider has remarked a few times about the relative reliability of our CSU/DSU's and routers, apparently they have problems from time to time with the stuff they use. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:51:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13793 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13759 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA23460; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:51:08 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:51:07 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142245.QAA26387@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > of router we have now but what would be the correct answer for the > > > > FreeBSD+card? As I understand it, you're the contact for the networking > > > > > > "We're using FreeBSD and a sync-serial card." :-) > > > > I just hope ISPs don't have anything against Unix based routers. > > :-) Ofcourse I can say that FreeBSD has kicked everything else so far > > including SUN SparcStation 20's so it should do very well... :-) > > In this business, you can try to dictate what customers must do - and you > will probably lose some customers. It is best to try to recommend what > you are familiar with, so that you can assist customers, and they can > benefit from your experiences, but if a customer wants to do something > different, you either let them or lose them. Yep, that's true. That's why we will run everything FreeBSD based since it serves it's purpose and you're a living example of FreeBSD for a newsserver even though some people would argue that SUN's are better just because of the RAID support. > If your new ISP does not like a UNIX based router, too bad. My upstream > provider has remarked a few times about the relative reliability of our > CSU/DSU's and routers, apparently they have problems from time to time > with the stuff they use. Just got their reply for CRL and they said that it's probably okay to use the equipment but they can't guarantee their engineers will provide us the help when we need it. I just told them that we will take care of our router while they can do their best in the Internet connection. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:54:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14223 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14184 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from chimp.jnx.com (chimp.jnx.com [208.197.169.246]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22572; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tli@localhost) by chimp.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA04577; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:50:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611142250.OAA04577@chimp.jnx.com> From: Tony Li To: stefan@exis.net CC: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Molnar on Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:59:11 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That was one idea a few months ago, but we got some MegaT ds1 mux units for better threwput, since the cisco can not handle the load ballance of the 2 Ts that are on it. The cisco does load sharing, not load balancing. The MUX (of course), does MUXing and can increase your effective bandwidth. Whether it's cost-effective depends on your personal situation. In general, a cisco will give you about 80% of the bandwidth of two T1's through load sharing. This gets worse if the number of entries in your fast switching cache is low. But from everything that I have seen, from the o'really books, to the lame teachings of my cne lessions, and people from cisco and andersen consulting say a t1 run at 1.54 (after all the overhead). If it was that high, 3.0 then something is wrong in IEEE land. You are correct in that T1 is 1.54Mbps (_before_ overhead), however it's full duplex. Thus, the _aggregate_ bandwidth of the link is ~3Mbps. Tony From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 14:56:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14573 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14537 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16945; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:57:10 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:57:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611141922.OAA26647@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >This too is of interest to people who might buy an ET product. We > >bought three of his boards, asked for support, got very little, but > >are still getting attacked in public. > > You are lying to people who are looking for an objective opinion, which > you dont have. Unfortunatly there is one of you in every world, so I guess > we just have to grin and bear it. Oh Christ, give it up Dennis. We have no interest whatsoever in lying about your products. But you have a large interest in doing so. > Since there are few others that share your opinions, hopefully others > will understand their origins. I tried to help you, and you sent me > volumes of "results" from a misconfigured machine and felt compelled > to badger me on a daily basis. Do I have this straight? Didn't you just claim a few emails back that we never asked you for advice? And are you now saying that we sent you volumes of results? Don't you see a slight contradiction? > I asked your people to either provide > a more cooperative contact or return the product. Support is a two > way effort..... Return your product ??? I was told by the woman who bought the product that she had to tell you over and over again that when we said we bought it for evaluation we didn't mean we were going to return it. > Usually, once they deal with SDL for awhile they know the truth themselves... > the SDL product for BSD/OS was written by BSDI....the FreeBSD product > is not comparable so most of your "experience" is irrelevant to this > discussion. We have dealt with SDL and we have dealt with you. SDL is on occasion difficult. But Dennis you are always like this. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:02:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15222 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from super-g.inch.com (spork@super-g.com [204.178.32.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15179; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08561; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:59:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:59:49 -0600 (CST) From: "S(pork)" X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Tuning for WWW performance... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy, I was just reading through the FAQ's and archives, and I came up with some conflicting info; some people were replying that the "MAXUSERS" option will take care of mbuf allocation, max open files per user, and max processes per user. Then other folks were giving individual options such as "NMBCLUSTERS=4096", "CHILD_MAX= ", "OPEN_MAX= "... Which is correct? And if MAXUSERS can do all of this, what is the formula it uses to generate the other values? >From what I can tell, it looks like the following requirements must be met for a high-performance dedicated web server: 1. Being able to have enough processes for all incoming requests 2. Being able to have enough files open (4-ish/apache process for access, error, browser, referer) 3. Having enough buffer space for the sockets If I can get some good answers on this, I'd love to throw together a page for the FAQ titled "Optimizing FBSD for high-performance web serving" or the like... Then next time someone asks, everyone can say "Look at the FAQ!" Thanks, Charles From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:03:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15446 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15425 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA26469; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:00:08 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611142300.RAA26469@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:00:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Veggy Vinny" at Nov 14, 96 02:51:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In this business, you can try to dictate what customers must do - and you > > will probably lose some customers. It is best to try to recommend what > > you are familiar with, so that you can assist customers, and they can > > benefit from your experiences, but if a customer wants to do something > > different, you either let them or lose them. > > Yep, that's true. That's why we will run everything FreeBSD based > since it serves it's purpose and you're a living example of FreeBSD for a > newsserver even though some people would argue that SUN's are better just > because of the RAID support. RAID support? If you mean Online DiskSuite... HA! I run a LARGE Sun news server too and I am trying to figure out some way to convert it to FreeBSD. If anybody is telling you that Sun is lots better for news, they are wrong. They are roughly equivalent, but the hardware costs more, and you need more of it to do a comparable job. The Sun stuff is generally very reliable, without any effort put into purchasing good hardware. You can get support contracts. Some of us do not care about any of that. > > If your new ISP does not like a UNIX based router, too bad. My upstream > > provider has remarked a few times about the relative reliability of our > > CSU/DSU's and routers, apparently they have problems from time to time > > with the stuff they use. > > Just got their reply for CRL and they said that it's probably okay > to use the equipment but they can't guarantee their engineers will provide > us the help when we need it. I just told them that we will take care of > our router while they can do their best in the Internet connection. That is a reasonable position to take... they can not be expected to bend over backwards to support something that they are unfamilar with. However, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to support your circuit, etc., as they would any other customer's. I think that sounds very similar to the agreement I have with my upstream provider. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:06:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15871 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15855 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA02547; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:24:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:24:12 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Tony Li cc: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142250.OAA04577@chimp.jnx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That is why we are using it. For us it is very coast effective. To handle it we are getting some 100MB ports for the eth switches. Even with the two the Ts, the CPU was at 90%. That just purely sucks. > You are correct in that T1 is 1.54Mbps (_before_ overhead), however it's > full duplex. Thus, the _aggregate_ bandwidth of the link is ~3Mbps. Okay. I give. I saw some the bell specs and saw some more info on it. You are correct. I should read my old bells specs some more. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16942 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16914 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA26800; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:13:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:13:52 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Joe Greco cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142300.RAA26469@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > In this business, you can try to dictate what customers must do - and you > > > will probably lose some customers. It is best to try to recommend what > > > you are familiar with, so that you can assist customers, and they can > > > benefit from your experiences, but if a customer wants to do something > > > different, you either let them or lose them. > > > > Yep, that's true. That's why we will run everything FreeBSD based > > since it serves it's purpose and you're a living example of FreeBSD for a > > newsserver even though some people would argue that SUN's are better just > > because of the RAID support. > > RAID support? Yep, the people at PrimeNet were like going, PC's suck.... We ran BSD/386 before... but I told them, BSD/386 isn't the same caliber as FreeBSD! > If you mean Online DiskSuite... HA! > > I run a LARGE Sun news server too and I am trying to figure out some way > to convert it to FreeBSD. If anybody is telling you that Sun is lots > better for news, they are wrong. > > They are roughly equivalent, but the hardware costs more, and you need > more of it to do a comparable job. > > The Sun stuff is generally very reliable, without any effort put into > purchasing good hardware. You can get support contracts. Some of us do > not care about any of that. Yep, I was telling them that they don't need to really run the machine since they have product support while a PC doesn't as a PC is compose of many parts from different vendors... One other thing they kept saying was that they can use more HD's and I just had to give them the 3 2940UW with 14 Seagate 23 gig drives on each machine and then they tried the 7200rpm SCSI Wide thing and I gave them the 9.1 gig Barracuda so they kept quiet. > > > If your new ISP does not like a UNIX based router, too bad. My upstream > > > provider has remarked a few times about the relative reliability of our > > > CSU/DSU's and routers, apparently they have problems from time to time > > > with the stuff they use. > > > > Just got their reply for CRL and they said that it's probably okay > > to use the equipment but they can't guarantee their engineers will provide > > us the help when we need it. I just told them that we will take care of > > our router while they can do their best in the Internet connection. > > That is a reasonable position to take... they can not be expected to bend > over backwards to support something that they are unfamilar with. However, > it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to support your circuit, etc., > as they would any other customer's. > > I think that sounds very similar to the agreement I have with my upstream > provider. :-) Yep, since it's like expecting them to support FreeBSD when they only know about SUN's so what they should do in the agreement is make sure the circuit works atleast decently is really what matters. Since the hardware, even with BBNPlanet, we ended up calling Cisco to fix the problem ourselves since the Serial port on the router died and BBNPlanet kept saying that wasn't the case. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:16:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA17144 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17094 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from chimp.jnx.com (chimp.jnx.com [208.197.169.246]) by red.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA23368; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tli@localhost) by chimp.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA04622; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:12:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:12:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611142312.PAA04622@chimp.jnx.com> From: Tony Li To: stefan@exis.net CC: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Molnar on Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:24:12 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That is why we are using it. For us it is very coast effective. To handle it we are getting some 100MB ports for the eth switches. Even with the two the Ts, the CPU was at 90%. That just purely sucks. Depending on the router and the configuration, that might be misconfiguration... And note that there isn't loads of extra CPU in the box -- it's not trying to run a full blown OS plus application programs. Tony From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:28:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA18683 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA18644 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:28:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from presence.lglobal.com (root@presence.lglobal.com [207.107.12.2]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA00788 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from presence.lglobal.com (drop@presence.lglobal.com [207.107.12.2]) by presence.lglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA19653; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:34:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: Colin Ryan To: Ricardo Kleemann cc: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: shadow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > Hi, > > Where can I get the shadow package for FreeBSD? Anyone know if it's > compatible with Linux's shadow? Doesn't FreeBSD come with shadow passwords? > > Is it the ssh package? No this is the Secure Shell package. I'm still confused as how to grab FreeBSD > packages, because whenever I go into ftp.freebsd.org, I'll se the > packages/ports but NOT the .tar.gz file that's supposed to be grabbed. packages and ports are different. The packages should have a .tar.gz or .tgz file available. The ports package requires you go the the directory immediately above the port you want get the whole directory and dump it into /usr/ports (??? may be wrong off the top of my head). Then do a make (again havn't done a port in a while) It's all in the FreeBSD handbook. > > Thanks! > Ricardo > -------------------------------\\|!|//-------------------------------- | Colin P. Ryan \!/ Building Strategies and | | Local GlobalAccess Inc Solutions for Internets | | 320 1/2 Bloor St. W. Toronto. ON and Intranets | | e:drop@lglobal.com Phone: (416)515-7400 | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 15:56:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA22247 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA22236 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from avalon.imagixx.net (root@avalon.imagixx.net [206.31.232.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA00856 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.31.232.10] (mgb.imagixx.net [206.31.232.10]) by avalon.imagixx.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA22394 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:48:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:48:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199611142348.SAA22394@avalon.imagixx.net> Subject: Telcos Owe ISPs Big Refunds From: "Martin G. Bayerle" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please forgive me if I previously posted to this list the following information (This is the only list I'm unsure about) . . . But it could be a nice early Christmas boost to all ISPs . . . _________________ 13 November 1996 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Telcos Cry Ouch as They Return Millions in Overcharges to ISPs Morgantown, WV - The Internet Development & Exchange Association (IDEA) announced today that they were pursuing the telephone companies for millions of dollars in overcharges collected from Internet Service Providers (ISP) nationwide. "We anticipate that the total overcharges which the RBOCs will return to the ISP industry will be somewhere between 4 and 30 million dollars, and the savings to ISPs, while the exemption remains in place, can be into the hundreds of millions of dollars in the future. Although the small to medium sized ISPs are exempt from certain tariffs - exemptions taken by AT&T, AOL, MSN and Compuserve and others - smaller ISPs are often not aware of their applicable exemptions," said Martin Bayerle, Executive Director of IDEA. In 1983, the U.S. government exempted companies who provide access to the national network of computers from certain fees imposed by the RBOCs. "Unfortunately, the telephone companies' business offices are often unaware of the exemption, and the smaller ISP, as a consequence, gets charged. The larger ISPs and their phalanx of lawyers know about the exemptions; the smaller ones often do not," Mr. Bayerle said. These overcharges came to light in May, when IDEA initiated its member audit program. IDEA has already retrieved thousands of dollars in refunds for its membership. IDEA is the Internet industry's trade association. Exemptions would be retroactive to 1983, with some ISPs collecting as much as $100,000 or more in refunds from the telcos. The Association will assist IDEA members in the refund process. _________ Contact: bayerle@auidea.org Martin G. Bayerle Executive Director IDEA 5006 Grand Central Station Drive Morgantown, WV 26505 Voice: 304 292-6736 Fax: 304 291-2577 For general information on IDEA, and its Audit Programs, visit http://www.auidea.org +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ |_ _| _ \ __| \ Martin G. Bayerle, Executive Director | | | | | _| _ \ Internet Development & Exchange Association | |___|___/ ___|_/ _\ 5006 Grand Central Station Drive | | bayerle@auidea.org Morgantown, WV 26505 304 292-6736 | |PGP Fngrprnt = 8A 71 8B 59 1D DD 8D DB B5 AE 52 40 3B 20 28 87| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 17:02:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA28568 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28553 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vOCdG-0008tEC; Thu, 14 Nov 96 16:59 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:59:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, dg@Root.COM, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at Nov 14, 96 08:30:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 68030, I believe (or at least that's what I found in our documentation). This is probably more detailed than anyone really cares, but since I jumped in, and since I have their Oct 96 catalog here... I meant to say 68000 family, but you're right; the 2501 is a 20Mhz 030, and the 4000M is a 40Mhz 030. The Access Pro is a 20Mhz 030. I'm pretty sure I was wrong about the 2501 not doing fast switching: I think it's cheaper because it's not modular. You buy the router with the interfaces you need and that's that. The 4000 series has 3 bays you can configure at will (for a price). List (your discount may vary): 4000M $2000 +1Etherport $1800 +1T1 (2ports) $2300 +IOS (IP only) $400 ----- $6500 2501 $ 995 (1E,2Ser) +IOS (IP only) $300 ----- $1295 Access Pro $ 695 (1E,1Ser) +IOS (IP only) $300 ----- $ 995 (+ a PC) -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 17:06:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA28710 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28703 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA16903 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26071 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:04:52 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Stupid question no 10101 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:04:51 -0500 Message-ID: <26068.848019891@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyhow. If you're an ISP, and need to share password info between machines, but not keep identical info on the machines, how do you handle it? NIS (aka YP) isn't the answer as it's about as insecure as a bank run out of plastic shopping bags. About the only solution I have right now is spending several days coding a password exchange system that'll sync the databases between machines, and handle add/del users, etc, but I'd rather try and find a less labour-intensive way of doing it ... Thanks, Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 17:12:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29440 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29370 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA24482; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:09:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199611150109.RAA24482@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Veggy Vinny at "Nov 14, 96 01:14:32 pm" To: richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:09:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, dg@root.com, jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > You're probably right since I asked him if a 10MBps or 10/100Mbps > > > card would be better for the ethernet from the machine and he said, the > > > max is 3MBps, 1.544MBps in/1.544MBps out full deplex. > > > > Remember that an Ethernet starts getting rather crowded around that point > > (at least if you believe in low latency and high performance, like I do) > > which means that you do not want tons of other traffic on such a wire. > > > > You might want to get the 10/100 card given that the current prices are > > really not that far apart, and it will not limit you in the future. > > We are getting the SMC 10/100 cards but reading the recent FreeBSD > mailing lists from Rod and others, it seems like there is currently a > problem with the drivers with the newer chips used on these cards so until > the cards are supported, then we need to either wait or just go try to > look for cards with the older chip ending with DST. You mis-interpretted my posting. The SMC9332DST work, if you can find units (and yes, I have your other email, but can't respond about product status until I call into the master distributor in the morning and see how many are left), the problem is SMC discontiuned the SMC9332DST and units are hard to find. I have some, but they are commited to orders. I will see about getting more of them in the morning. ( A heck, it wasn't as late as I thought. I tied up 5 units for you, give me a call and we can discuss the order). SMC did the RIGHT thing, they came out with a new model SMC9332BDT when they changed to the PHY/MII interface, these cards are known not to work with the current code in FreeBSD (all branches). Some one has posted a butchering note of the driver that made it work for them. David Greenman and myself took a quick look at the code and see what can be done quickly to fix several of the cards (including the SMC9332BDT) and he is working on this presently. My SMC9332BDT evaluation unit just arrived this afternoon and should be in David's hands this evening. Matt Thomas has already posted that he has it working with BSDI, and pointed out the lacking functionality in FreeBSD that is makeing it hard for him to tranplant the code. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 17:46:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01464 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:46:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01458 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12476; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:18:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611150118.TAA12476@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Gary Stanny" , , Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase - Dennis beating his chest Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:43:23 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Yeah, but "Bill" doesn't have to support the idiots himself....its like they > >say about some women, no matter how pretty they are, sometimes > >they just ain't worth the trouble! > > Your view of your customers is amazing. I hope you own ET because if > you worked for me - you'd be toast. In the months I have been lurking > on this list I have heard you start numerous flame wars, you never listen > to what anybody else says because you clearly know all. And as you are > confronted with facts you just get childishly louder & louder and more > insulting. Hmm, lets say you had some user that called you every time they got hung up on, slow transfers, flooded off IRC, etc etc. In about ten minutes you'd be telling them the competitions phone number. Its business, some customers cost more than they are worth. Some guy with an obvious problem that should be checked by a phyciatrist goes after a product with an overall great performance rating, and gets pretty nasty in the process. Dennis handled it in the most hilarious manner possible.. > Please do us all a favor and either lurk or leave, but shut up. I have a suggestion too, for you, but I think it may be a little too strong for the mailing list... --- Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas Voice: (409) 687-9066 http://www.intrastar.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 17:52:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01878 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01870 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23500; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.6) id RAA13998; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199611150150.RAA13998@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: richardc@csua.berkeley.edu (Veggy Vinny) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:50:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: randy@zyzzyva.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from Veggy Vinny at "Nov 14, 96 02:32:11 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Randy Terbush wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm okay.... Atleast it seems they are way better from the > > > sounds of it than our current provider PBI.Net which uses AGIS.Net as the > > > backbone and refuses to peer with anyone. I guess from what you are PBI.net has now also agreements with IGN. The prices are higher with them. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 18:32:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04124 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04107; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id TAA25922; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:30:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.ampr.ab.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01707; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:27:43 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:27:42 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko X-Sender: marcs@alive.ampr.ab.ca To: "S(pork)" cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tuning for WWW performance... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In -stable, from config.c, MAXUSERS tunes: #define NPROC (20 + 16 * MAXUSERS) int maxproc = NPROC; /* maximum # of processes */ int maxprocperuid = NPROC-1; /* maximum # of processes per user */ int maxfiles = NPROC*2; /* system wide open files limit */ int maxfilesperproc = NPROC*2; /* per-process open files limit */ int ncallout = 16 + NPROC; /* maximum # of timer events */ /* maximum # of mbuf clusters */ #ifndef NMBCLUSTERS int nmbclusters = 512 + MAXUSERS * 16; #else int nmbclusters = NMBCLUSTERS; #endif CHILD_MAX and OPEN_MAX are not affected by MAXUSERS. CHILD_MAX and OPEN_MAX should certainly be set, maxusers around 128 or so would be good (ignore the warning from config), NMBCLUSTERS you probably don't need to set if MAXUSERS is big enough. On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, S(pork) wrote: > Howdy, > > I was just reading through the FAQ's and archives, and I came up with some > conflicting info; some people were replying that the "MAXUSERS" option > will take care of mbuf allocation, max open files per user, and max > processes per user. Then other folks were giving individual options such > as "NMBCLUSTERS=4096", "CHILD_MAX= ", "OPEN_MAX= "... Which is correct? > And if MAXUSERS can do all of this, what is the formula it uses to > generate the other values? > > >From what I can tell, it looks like the following requirements must be met > for a high-performance dedicated web server: > > 1. Being able to have enough processes for all incoming requests Assuming you are using a forking server like apache. > 2. Being able to have enough files open (4-ish/apache process for access, > error, browser, referer) In apache the logs are opened once for all the child processes, so if you have lots of virtual domains with seperate log files then you need lots of file descriptors. > 3. Having enough buffer space for the sockets > > If I can get some good answers on this, I'd love to throw together a page > for the FAQ titled "Optimizing FBSD for high-performance web serving" or > the like... Then next time someone asks, everyone can say "Look at the > FAQ!" There is some BSD advice on the Apache page somewhere under http://www.apache.org/ that isn't bad. > > Thanks, > > Charles > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 18:33:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04336 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04328 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id VAA03612; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:51:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:51:33 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Tony Li cc: jdd@vbc.net, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, chad@gaianet.net, isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142312.PAA04622@chimp.jnx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Depending on the router and the configuration, that might be > misconfiguration... And note that there isn't loads of extra CPU in the > box -- it's not trying to run a full blown OS plus application programs. It is called news groups. We have almost 25k. Also the eth collisions are at 10% That is too high for the bosses likings. stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 18:56:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05747 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:56:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05703 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:54:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12911 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:26:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611150226.UAA12911@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: Subject: Fw: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:51:33 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got this on portmaster-users. Just for your information. ---------- > From: MegaZone > To: portmaster-announce@livingston.com > Subject: > Date: Thursday, November 14, 1996 8:18 PM > > Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961115000748.010971c8@server> > X-Sender: mann@server > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:07:48 -0600 > To: portmaster-announce@livingston.com > From: Jon Mann > Subject: Capella Networking > Status: RO > Approved: pmgrace > > November 15, 1996 > > > Livingston Customers, > > I am writing to inform you that Capella Wolrdwide is no longer a Livingston > Authorized reseller. > > Effective immediately please direct all sales any inquiries that may have > been directed at Capella to one of the following: Livingston Inside Sales > department at 1-800-458-9966 or send email to sales@livingston.com, or visit > our web page at www.livingston.com/ > > Regards - jon **end** --- Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas Voice: (409) 687-9066 http://www.intrastar.net/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 18:56:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA05894 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05725; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15007; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:10:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA26141; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:51:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: Gary Palmer cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 In-Reply-To: <26068.848019891@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > If you're an ISP, and need to share password info between machines, > but not keep identical info on the machines, how do you handle it? NIS I think the best way is to have two machines with complete password info and run RADIUSD on them. Then use hacked versions of login, ftpd, popper etc. on the other machines to authenticate via RADIUS. On shell account machines, hack login to add the user to the local passwd database for the duration of their session and hack getty to yank them out again when they log off or get disconnected. People have created some of this stuff already and one Linux based ISP may have all of this running but he is still tinkering and won't release any of it yet. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 19:05:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA06503 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06497 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (richardc@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA04439; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:06:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: Veggy Vinny To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: randy@zyzzyva.com, dg@root.com, isp@FreeBSD.org, Chad Shackley , JbHunt , "[Mario1-]" Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611150150.RAA13998@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > PBI.net has now also agreements with IGN. The prices are higher with > them. We are aware of this as CRL had told us about it but it seems PBI.Net with AGIS.Net is already more expensive for Frame Relay T1 than a Full T1 with CRL and also IGN I heard was better outside the U.S. Vince GaiaNet Corporation - Unix Networking Operations - GUS Mailing Lists Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 19:51:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09273 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from bullfrog.ecpnet.com (bullfrog.ecpnet.com [204.246.64.212]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09264 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from raistlin@localhost) by bullfrog.ecpnet.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id VAA01841; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:51:22 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:51:19 +0000 () From: Justen Stepka To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: NIS shadow support with freebsd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any you of admins ever setup a NIS client with FreeBSD. The problem is that I can't figure out how to use the shadow.byname exported by the NIS server. Without this source i'm not able to make this freebsd machine a client, thus no users may use the system. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justen Stepka | http://www.ecpnet.com/~raistlin Network Administrator | "This space for rent" raistlin@ecpnet.com | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 19:53:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09360 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09351 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23812; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:01:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.6) id TAA14139; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:52:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199611150352.TAA14139@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:52:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: ejs@bfd.com, richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, dg@Root.COM, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from Alan Batie at "Nov 14, 96 04:59:46 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > List (your discount may vary): > > 4000M $2000 > +1Etherport $1800 > +1T1 (2ports) $2300 > +IOS (IP only) $400 This is not $400, it is $1700. You listed the upgrade price. > ----- > $6500 > > 2501 $ 995 > (1E,2Ser) > +IOS (IP only) $300 Here the same, the real list price is $1200. > ----- > $1295 > > Access Pro $ 695 > (1E,1Ser) > +IOS (IP only) $300 And again, it is $1000. > ----- > $ 995 (+ a PC) > > -- > Alan Batie ______ > batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! > +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact > DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 > > It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which > use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. > Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 19:57:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA09526 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09516 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vOFO7-0008tEC; Thu, 14 Nov 96 19:56 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: ulf@Lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:56:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: ejs@bfd.com, richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, dg@Root.COM, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: <199611150352.TAA14139@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Nov 14, 96 07:52:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is not $400, it is $1700. You listed the upgrade price. I thought they sounded cheap for IOS... Thanks for correcting me! -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 20:00:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA09722 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09717 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23877; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.6) id TAA14159; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:58:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199611150358.TAA14159@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:58:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Lamb.net, ejs@bfd.com, richardc@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, dg@Root.COM, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from Alan Batie at "Nov 14, 96 07:56:18 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is not $400, it is $1700. You listed the upgrade price. > > I thought they sounded cheap for IOS... Thanks for correcting me! > > -- > Alan Batie ______ > batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! > +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact > DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 > > It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which > use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. > Oh, and you should always consider he SmartNet contract. As you want to be able to get the newer IOS images. The SmartNet for 4000M is $850, for 2501 it is $275 and for Access Pro it is $200. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 20:55:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12347 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from delenn.netpci.com (root@celerity.guam.net [202.128.6.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12335 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jbh@localhost) by delenn.netpci.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24046; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:53:03 -1000 (GMT+10) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:53:03 -1000 (GMT+10) From: Justin Harvey To: Ricardo Kleemann cc: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: shadow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD already uses shadow passwords in 2.1.5 at least. Justin On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > Hi, > > Where can I get the shadow package for FreeBSD? Anyone know if it's > compatible with Linux's shadow? > > Is it the ssh package? I'm still confused as how to grab FreeBSD > packages, because whenever I go into ftp.freebsd.org, I'll se the > packages/ports but NOT the .tar.gz file that's supposed to be grabbed. > > Thanks! > Ricardo > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 20:58:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12739 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from delenn.netpci.com (root@celerity.guam.net [202.128.6.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12729; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jbh@localhost) by delenn.netpci.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24084; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:56:18 -1000 (GMT+10) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:56:18 -1000 (GMT+10) From: Justin Harvey To: Michael Dillon cc: Gary Palmer , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Or, yet another alternative is to use NIS, I know you said it was insecure but you need to define 'insecue'. I bet it would be more secure than whatever kind of password exchanging mechanism you're thining of programming. NIS isn't exactly 'insecure', IMO I think it's had a bad rap due to people misconfiguring it. You can also configure NIS to share files that are not defaulted with the package. Justin On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > > > If you're an ISP, and need to share password info between machines, > > but not keep identical info on the machines, how do you handle it? NIS > > I think the best way is to have two machines with complete password info > and run RADIUSD on them. Then use hacked versions of login, ftpd, popper > etc. on the other machines to authenticate via RADIUS. On shell account > machines, hack login to add the user to the local passwd database for the > duration of their session and hack getty to yank them out again when they > log off or get disconnected. > > People have created some of this stuff already and one Linux based ISP may > have all of this running but he is still tinkering and won't release any > of it yet. > > Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting > Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 21:22:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA15284 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:22:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15279 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA17043 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:37:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA27460 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:18:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:18:17 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Justin Harvey wrote: > Or, yet another alternative is to use NIS, I know you said it was > insecure but you need to define 'insecue'. I bet it would be more secure > than whatever kind of password exchanging mechanism you're thining of > programming. I did mention RADIUS you know. This is an IETF standard for encrypted authentication. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 22:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA18210 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from infowest.com (infowest.com [204.17.177.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18205 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparrowhawk (Lennier.infowest.com [204.17.177.122]) by infowest.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA24330 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:16:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961114231502.00ed70d0@infowest.com> X-Sender: agifford@infowest.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:15:04 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Aaron D. Gifford" Subject: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone here running Xylogics' (Bay Network's) erpcd authentication daemon on FreeBSD 2.1.5, particularly version 13.1? I can't get anyting except for an old version of 9.x working. Wondering, Aaron Gifford InfoWest Networking --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- Aaron D. Gifford InfoWest, 1845 W. Sunset Blvd, St. George, UT 84770 InfoWest Networking Phone: (801) 674-0165 FAX: (801) 673-9734 Visit InfoWest at: "http://www.infowest.com/" ICBM: 37.08N, 113.58W PGP Pub. Key at http://www.infowest.com/a/agifford/ "Southern Utah's Finest Network Connection" --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 22:16:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA18343 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18329 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:16:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA22850; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:16:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:14:25 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: Michael Dillon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > I did mention RADIUS you know. This is an IETF standard for encrypted > authentication. Slight correction. The RADIUS spec is a Internet Draft, and as such it is *not* a standard. It will be, but not yet. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 23:02:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA20605 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20564 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA06790; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:00:57 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611150700.JAA06790@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142224.RAA27830@etinc.com> from dennis at "Nov 14, 96 05:24:47 pm" To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:00:57 +0200 (SAT) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required > >> to write and maintain drivers? > >> > >> Jim Shankland > >> Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. > >> > > > >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. > >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards > >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. > > > >The bulk of the driver has to do with the Hitachi HD64570 chip that the > >board is using and that information is in the Hitachi data sheets. The > >information about how the chip is interfaced to the rest of the board > >is actually very little, because most (all) of the work is done by the > >chip. The rest of the board is actually just RAM, bus arbitration logic > >and line drivers. > > gee, sounds just like their (and our) original "archaic" board designs! > Wonder what Jim was talking about....... > Maybe he was talking about the N2pci? It does not have its own RAM on the card but use the system memory and get/put the data directly from/to there. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Nov 14 23:51:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA23310 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from dnai.com (dnai.com [140.174.162.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA23304 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mars.dnai.com (mars.dnai.com [140.174.162.14]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03347 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:50:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:50:49 -0800 (PST) From: Dror Matalon To: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611142028.PAA27089@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > > This discussion is getting really stupid...... No doubt about that. > > Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none > of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs > ET is a simple one...... Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra risk on my routers. Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? > > 1) you dont have to know unix to use a cisco > 2) Ciscos are fine if you have 1 ethernet and 1 T1. More than that > they have questionable horsepower.... > 2) cisco are just routers....Freebsd boxes are servers also and > clearly more flexible and expandable. > > As for which card to buy...different vendors have different options > and features and prices. You have to do your homework to determine > which you prefer. > > db > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > Dror Matalon Voice: 510 649-6110 Direct Network Access Fax: 510 649-7130 2039 Shattuck Avenue Modem: 510 649-6116 Berkeley, CA 94704 Email: dror@dnai.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 00:32:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA26722 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA26717 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19493; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:32:39 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:32:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: John Hay cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611150700.JAA06790@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, John Hay wrote: > > >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required > > >> to write and maintain drivers? > > >> ... > > >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. > > >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards > > >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. > > > Have you done any systematic tests of the relative performance of the N2 (which uses the ISA bus) and the N2pci (which uses the PCI bus) ? -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 01:10:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA28700 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA28691 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA25318; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:17:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.6) id BAA14686; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:08:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <961115010828.ZM14684@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:08:28 -0800 In-Reply-To: Dror Matalon "Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line" (Nov 14, 11:50pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0b.514 14may96) To: Dror Matalon , isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 14, 11:50pm, Dror Matalon wrote: > Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line > > On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > This discussion is getting really stupid...... > No doubt about that. I didn't followed most of it, because I don't like such high volume threads ;-) > > > > > Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none > > of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs > > ET is a simple one...... > > Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people > that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless > they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if > anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra > risk on my routers. No, you are not. I am totaly paranoid regarding moving parts, like harddisks primary. Ok, a Cisco has also a fan, but in a 2501 it doesn't matter so much if it doesn't work, if the machine room is correctly designed. And a 7xxx tells me, if the temperature gets to high. That are just convient things. Right now I am using primary a Cisco Access Pro card, because it only takes the power from the PC, and a dying PC power supply I haven't had a longer time. But it will change to a 72xx soon. > > Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 > with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does > Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units > are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most > modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? P130 is not bad, but 1.) no other routing protocol beside RIP. Ascend promisded OSPF in January to be available in February. Still nothing today. Also the P130 is a P50 in reality. If you ever open one, you will find "P50 T1 CSU" on the pcb. the mainboard is marked as "P50 with POT interface". I have heard from people the P130 is not powerfull enough to handle T1 with primary smaller packets. Don't know how true it is, but I can image it. I will will probably sell customer it, because a Cisco 1600 cost the double. > > > > > 1) you dont have to know unix to use a cisco > > 2) Ciscos are fine if you have 1 ethernet and 1 T1. More than that > > they have questionable horsepower.... > > 2) cisco are just routers....Freebsd boxes are servers also and > > clearly more flexible and expandable. > > > > As for which card to buy...different vendors have different options > > and features and prices. You have to do your homework to determine > > which you prefer. > > > > db > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > > and LINUX > > > > > > Dror Matalon Voice: 510 649-6110 > Direct Network Access Fax: 510 649-7130 > 2039 Shattuck Avenue Modem: 510 649-6116 > Berkeley, CA 94704 Email: dror@dnai.com > >-- End of excerpt from Dror Matalon My personal opinion about Cisco instead of a FreeBSD router: If the extra functionality isn't usefull for a customer, I give a Cisco or someother as standalone box. A PC always tends the way to have the need "I have now to update the OS, otherwise it will not work". Ok, I have seens Unix boxes >400 days up time, but not very often. While a Cisco router I have seen many, many times. Also can I change configs easier on the fly with a Cisco or Ascend P130, then with FreeBSD. I just wish, someone would invest into a company building low cost routers. Cisco needs some competition. Then the price would drop and everyone has more choices. Oh, one more thing about the P130. At the time I used the P130 for a Frame Relay connection, there was no real way to find out, how many channels a PVC really used, Has that changed at all yet ? -- Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 02:31:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA03297 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA03286 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19680; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:31:45 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:31:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: Dror Matalon , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <961115010828.ZM14684@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people > > that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless > > they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if > > anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra > > risk on my routers. > > No, you are not. I am totaly paranoid regarding moving parts, like harddisks > primary. Ok, a Cisco has also a fan, but in a 2501 it doesn't matter so much if > it doesn't work, if the machine room is correctly designed. And a 7xxx tells > me, if the temperature gets to high. That are just convient things. We have many UNIX based routers. Our experience is * Frequent problems with applications (for example name servers) running on routers; these sometimes cause the router to lock up. Solution: don't run applications on routers. * Frequent problems with LAN interfaces locking up. Crude solution: a cron job that checks the interfaces every few minutes and toggles them if they aren't working. Better solution: driver mods; we are working on this. * CPU fan failures. About 10-15% have failed in a year. * Occasional motherboard problems. * Zero hard disk failures in the field That is, the real problem is in the software. The hardware is far more reliable. CPU fans are the least reliable bit of hardware. Hard drives are very reliable indeed, just like their MTBF figures suggest. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 05:15:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11767 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA11758 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA25624 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:16:57 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa01840; 15 Nov 96 8:22 EST Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:22:13 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Jim Shankland cc: isp@freebsd.org, richardc@csua.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611142036.MAA18245@saguaro.flyingfox.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If you can reproduce the problem, and can give me dialup access The problem with reproduciblity is that the problem would not affect all users, just a subset of which I could not discover any commonality. I could not duplicate the problem on my home pc, but my head tech support guy had the problem on his at home. Im not going to go further with this on this list. Its way too attitudinal. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 05:20:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11955 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA11949 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA25654; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:21:56 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa02339; 15 Nov 96 8:27 EST Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:27:16 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Bradley Dunn cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You don't want to use FreeBSD, fine. Just don't claim it's broken because > you don't want to do the work to find out what the real problem is. > That makes a lot of sense. I claim its broken because it is the only one of 4 operating systems manifesting the problem. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 05:42:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA13211 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:42:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA13206 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id IAA15551; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:41:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611151341.IAA15551@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:41:54 -0500 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Dillon on Nov 14, 1996 21:18:17 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon writes: > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Justin Harvey wrote: > > > Or, yet another alternative is to use NIS, I know you said it was > > insecure but you need to define 'insecue'. I bet it would be more secure > > than whatever kind of password exchanging mechanism you're thining of > > programming. > > I did mention RADIUS you know. This is an IETF standard for encrypted > authentication. Hopefully before it becomes a standard, it will be fixed. One of the most blatant mistakes is that it is based on UDP and there is no allowance for acknowledgement of STOP messages. -- Christopher Masto . . . . Superior Net Support: support@superior.net chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com On Exports, Routine: The exports include] thumbscrews and cattle prods, just routine items for the police. - Commerce Department spokesman on a regulation allowing the export of - various products abroad From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 06:05:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA14883 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA14876 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:05:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA27695; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611151404.IAA27695@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: bradley@dunn.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve" at Nov 15, 96 08:27:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You don't want to use FreeBSD, fine. Just don't claim it's broken because > > you don't want to do the work to find out what the real problem is. > > That makes a lot of sense. I claim its broken because it is the only one > of 4 operating systems manifesting the problem. Excellent. You have scientifically determined the problem. Clearly FreeBSD is at fault. It COULDN'T be ANYTHING else. (For those of us who live in the real world, this is known as "faulty reasoning".) But hey, like, my old car doesn't work (anymore). My new car does. Clearly Pontiac is faulty and Ford is not. What a way to start a Friday morning. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 06:38:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA17232 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from absinthe.i3inc.com (absinthe.stonos.washington.dc.us [206.27.237.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17227 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by absinthe.i3inc.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA07433; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611151437.JAA07433@absinthe.i3inc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: absinthe.i3inc.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: bradley@dunn.org Cc: michael@memra.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stupid question no 10101 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:14:25 -0500 ()" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.31.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:37:09 -0500 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:14:25 -0500 () Bradley Dunn wrote: bradley> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: bradley> bradley> > I did mention RADIUS you know. This is an IETF standard for encrypted bradley> > authentication. bradley> bradley> Slight correction. The RADIUS spec is a Internet Draft, and as such it is bradley> *not* a standard. It will be, but not yet. Has anyone hacked other "clients" to do authentication via RADIUS? I'm thinking of "login", "telnetd", "ftpd", etc. A centralized password system could be very convenient. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 06:56:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA18036 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18029 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA27765; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:52:42 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611151452.IAA27765@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line To: dror@dnai.com (Dror Matalon) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:52:41 -0600 (CST) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Dror Matalon" at Nov 14, 96 11:50:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none > > of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs > > ET is a simple one...... > > Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people > that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless > they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if > anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra > risk on my routers. I would like to see support for mirroring of the disk, certainly. I have seen disks fail. I have seen hubs fail. I have seen network cards fail. I have seen cables fail. It does not really matter what you use for a router... I have seen Ciscos fail due to faulty power supplies (Marquette University), I have seen Ciscos crash due to software problems (a local ISP), I have seen Ciscos rendered useless by pilot error. It is most impressive to see a $70,000 7XXX class Cisco sitting useless waiting for spare parts. On the flip side, a poorly designed PC is unreliable and cranky. If you do not pay attention to power protection, adequate cooling (both of the machine room and also inside the machine, ball bearing fans, extra fans in the case, good CPU fan, cool running CPU, etc), motherboard issues (get a GOOD PCIset from a reputable vendor), etc., your router will be crappy and so will your reliability. You get what you pay for.. and often you get less. With either a Cisco OR a PC, one needs to have a contingency plan for WHEN (not if - WHEN) that piece of equipment fails. My personal feeling is that it's cheaper to stock PC spare parts. I can use them for other machines too if other machines fail. There is a "Contingency plan" list at that local ISP, if I remember correctly, their contingency plan for failure of their Cisco 7XXX router is to be screwed until replacement parts arrive. It says something to that effect. My "Contingency plan" was recently tested when a hub died and somehow took one of my routers with it. Unfortunately I was not able to get on site for several hours, but I was able to cover the loss of my core router by having a tech plug a few critical nets into the spare Ethernet ports I am so fond of equipping my other routers with... it was not too hard to reconfigure things so that I was mostly live. When I got on site, six hours later, I took a waiting spare machine, plopped a 4-port PCI Ethernet card in it, and 30 minutes later my "all new" core router was back on line. I was not happy with the failure of my contingency plan - it required having someone present on site who could follow instructions over the phone. I will soon be deploying redundant routers, with OSPF routing, to help eliminate "single points of failure". So I think the real deal has more to do with proper contingency planning than it does with Cisco routers. If and when the ISP with the Cisco has their 7XXX crap out, they are S.O.L. If and when one of my routers craps out, I will not have to worry too much. And I will have paid less than $70,000 for my solution to the problem. You are not the only paranoid person. Paranoid people are the only people who are successful playing this game in the long run. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 07:39:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA21565 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21544 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id HAA10711; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:42:03 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:42:03 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: converting linux passwds into freebsd To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I have a set of users in linux and I want to convert them over to a freebsd server. Question: How can I insert each user's information/passwords into the freebsd database? Thanks! Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 07:50:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA22497 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22466 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA25420; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199611151549.HAA25420@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: from Jim Dixon at "Nov 15, 96 10:31:44 am" To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Lamb.net, dror@dnai.com, isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * CPU fan failures. About 10-15% have failed in a year. Start using these: XX. MER PCP-9005 CPU-Cool 1.9" for A80502 Ball Bearing Clip 5 yr wrnty $ 18.00 They (PC Power and Cooling) also make fans for 486's and Pentium PRO's, all are ball bearing, all come with a 5 year warranty. I have seen 4 bad units, all at incoming inspection, out of 100's of units sold. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:04:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23655 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (jeff@mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23609 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jeff@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id KAA00855; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:09:05 -0600 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:09:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeff.Lynch-JORSM.Internet" To: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611151452.IAA27765@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > So I think the real deal has more to do with proper contingency planning > than it does with Cisco routers. If and when the ISP with the Cisco has > their 7XXX crap out, they are S.O.L. If and when one of my routers craps > out, I will not have to worry too much. And I will have paid less than > $70,000 for my solution to the problem. > > You are not the only paranoid person. Paranoid people are the only people > who are successful playing this game in the long run. :-) > > ... JG > I agree fully with Joe. Please, now can we either agree with the wisdom of Joe's statement or agree to disagree and bury this thread? ========================================================================= Jeffrey A. Lynch, President JORSM Internet email: jeff@jorsm.com Northwest Indiana's Full-Service Provider Voice: (219)322-2180 927 Sheffield Avenue, Dyer, IN 46311 Autoresponse: info@jorsm.com http://www.jorsm.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:10:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24399 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24383 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04132; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:14:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:14:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199611151614.LAA04132@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >If your new ISP does not like a UNIX based router, too bad. My upstream >provider has remarked a few times about the relative reliability of our >CSU/DSU's and routers, apparently they have problems from time to time >with the stuff they use. My upstream provider has cisco 4XXXs and 7XXXs and they are always experiencing problems..downtime, packet loss due to ethernet overloads...etc. The quality of the service is more of a function of the people using the equipment and designing the network then the equipment itself, as I assume that there are many using such high end equipment with no such problems. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:15:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25020 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from login.bigblue.no (root@login.bigblue.no [194.19.68.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25012 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from eagle.bigblue.no (eagle.bigblue.no [194.19.68.13]) by login.bigblue.no (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08496 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:15:43 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199611151615.RAA08496@login.bigblue.no> From: "Frode Nordahl" To: "isp@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 17:15:50 Reply-To: "Frode Nordahl" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Frode Nordahl's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Kerberos and Remote Access routers? Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there any easy way to set up Kerberos for use by remote access routers (For example 3Com AccessBuilder 4000 Remote Access Servers)? Are there any admin tools available for it? Do I have to manually put all the users in the Kerberos server database, or is it possible to implement it in the adduser script? Is it any way to convert existing master.passwd to Kerberos? And, what do other people use? What kind of sollutions is available for stuff like this? From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:37:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA27477 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27436 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA28097; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:34:37 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611151634.KAA28097@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:34:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: jdd@vbc.net, ulf@lamb.net, dror@dnai.com, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199611151549.HAA25420@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Nov 15, 96 07:49:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > * CPU fan failures. About 10-15% have failed in a year. > > Start using these: > XX. MER PCP-9005 CPU-Cool 1.9" for A80502 Ball Bearing Clip 5 yr wrnty $ 18.00 > > They (PC Power and Cooling) also make fans for 486's and Pentium PRO's, > all are ball bearing, all come with a 5 year warranty. I have seen 4 > bad units, all at incoming inspection, out of 100's of units sold. Hi Rod, What about case and power supply fans? Any recommendations? ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28461 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28430 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04351; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:52:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:52:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199611151652.LAA04351@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hay From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required >> >> to write and maintain drivers? >> >> >> >> Jim Shankland >> >> Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. >> >> >> > >> >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. >> >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards >> >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. >> > >> >The bulk of the driver has to do with the Hitachi HD64570 chip that the >> >board is using and that information is in the Hitachi data sheets. The >> >information about how the chip is interfaced to the rest of the board >> >is actually very little, because most (all) of the work is done by the >> >chip. The rest of the board is actually just RAM, bus arbitration logic >> >and line drivers. >> >> gee, sounds just like their (and our) original "archaic" board designs! >> Wonder what Jim was talking about....... >> > >Maybe he was talking about the N2pci? It does not have its own RAM on >the card but use the system memory and get/put the data directly from/to >there. I thought that thats what YOU were talking about? Bus mastering is not a new design....its a design "choice". Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:53:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28943 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28934 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA26895; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:54:54 GMT Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa26004; 15 Nov 96 11:59 EST Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Hovey To: Joe Greco cc: Steve , bradley@dunn.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: <199611151404.IAA27695@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > You don't want to use FreeBSD, fine. Just don't claim it's broken because > > > you don't want to do the work to find out what the real problem is. > > > > That makes a lot of sense. I claim its broken because it is the only one > > of 4 operating systems manifesting the problem. > > Excellent. You have scientifically determined the problem. Clearly > FreeBSD is at fault. > > It COULDN'T be ANYTHING else. > > (For those of us who live in the real world, this is known as "faulty > reasoning".) > > But hey, like, my old car doesn't work (anymore). My new car does. Clearly > Pontiac is faulty and Ford is not. > > What a way to start a Friday morning. :-) > i get the direct impression you wrote some or all of the tcp/ip code after 2.0 or something. You are taking this way too personally. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:58:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA29272 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29264 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02782; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:29:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611151629.KAA02782@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Jim Dixon" , "Ulf Zimmermann" Cc: "Dror Matalon" , Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:54:39 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That is, the real problem is in the software. The hardware is far more > reliable. CPU fans are the least reliable bit of hardware. Hard drives > are very reliable indeed, just like their MTBF figures suggest. We use Am5x86 here exclusivly for our servers and most of our workstations. These have the 486-size CPU... We were plagued with fan failures occasionally until I was able to find some good fans (ball bearings) and cheap enough to change them all every 3-4 months. Costs me $35 to walk around and swap them all out, I stick them in a box... if I have one of the newer ones fail I can always go back to one of the old ones (if I am out of new ones) or give the old ones to friends w/ fan problems, etc etc. plus, keeping the fan/heat sink clean REALLY helps. I try to clean ours at least once a month with pressurized air - in extreme cases remove the heat sink (re-greasing it afterward) and get rid of the dust/crap on it. Still, it doesn't seem they want to make CPU fans that want to work in tower cases.... JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 08:58:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA29313 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29301 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04419; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:04:25 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:04:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199611151704.MAA04419@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Dror Matalon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >> This discussion is getting really stupid...... >No doubt about that. > >> >> Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none >> of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs >> ET is a simple one...... > >Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people >that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless >they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if >anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra >risk on my routers. > >Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 >with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does >Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units >are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most >modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? This is the same non-thinking argument that has been used for a long time, and it makes no sense bacause you are not comparing apples to apples. You still need a server with a standalone router, so you have 2 points of failure instead of 1 (with an internal card). This subject annoyed us enough that we put up a FAQ of routers vs sync cards at: http://www.etinc.com/routers.htm no doubt somewhat biased, but entertaining nonetheless! Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 09:03:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA29779 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA29763 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA28156; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:01:50 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611151701.LAA28156@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: root@buffnet.net (Steve Hovey) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:01:49 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, shovey@buffnet.net, bradley@dunn.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Steve Hovey" at Nov 15, 96 11:59:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Excellent. You have scientifically determined the problem. Clearly > > FreeBSD is at fault. > > > > It COULDN'T be ANYTHING else. > > > > (For those of us who live in the real world, this is known as "faulty > > reasoning".) > > > > But hey, like, my old car doesn't work (anymore). My new car does. Clearly > > Pontiac is faulty and Ford is not. > > > > What a way to start a Friday morning. :-) > > i get the direct impression you wrote some or all of the tcp/ip code > after 2.0 or something. You are taking this way too personally. No, I am making lots of fun of your logical processes. Not only am I not taking it personally, I don't really care too much because I've clearly gotten the direct impression that you are not interested in solving the problem. Still, it would be nice to know what's wrong. Because there are those of us doing this on a large scale who (by your account) should be seeing this problem on an equally large scale. And I, at least, am not seeing this. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 09:05:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00209 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00189 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:05:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04491; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:11:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:11:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199611151711.MAA04491@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ulf Zimmermann" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Nov 14, 11:50pm, Dror Matalon wrote: >> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line >> >> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: >> >> > >> > This discussion is getting really stupid...... >> No doubt about that. > >I didn't followed most of it, because I don't like such high volume threads ;-) > >> >> > >> > Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none >> > of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs >> > ET is a simple one...... >> >> Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people >> that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless >> they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if >> anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra >> risk on my routers. > >No, you are not. I am totaly paranoid regarding moving parts, like harddisks >primary. Ok, a Cisco has also a fan, but in a 2501 it doesn't matter so much if >it doesn't work, if the machine room is correctly designed. And a 7xxx tells >me, if the temperature gets to high. That are just convient things. > >Right now I am using primary a Cisco Access Pro card, because it only takes the >power from the PC, and a dying PC power supply I haven't had a longer time. > >But it will change to a 72xx soon. > >> >> Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 >> with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does >> Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units >> are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most >> modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? > >P130 is not bad, but 1.) no other routing protocol beside RIP. Ascend promisded >OSPF in January to be available in February. Still nothing today. Also the P130 >is a P50 in reality. If you ever open one, you will find "P50 T1 CSU" on the >pcb. the mainboard is marked as "P50 with POT interface". I have heard from >people the P130 is not powerfull enough to handle T1 with primary smaller >packets. Don't know how true it is, but I can image it. > >I will will probably sell customer it, because a Cisco 1600 cost the double. > >> >> > >> > 1) you dont have to know unix to use a cisco >> > 2) Ciscos are fine if you have 1 ethernet and 1 T1. More than that >> > they have questionable horsepower.... >> > 2) cisco are just routers....Freebsd boxes are servers also and >> > clearly more flexible and expandable. >> > >> > As for which card to buy...different vendors have different options >> > and features and prices. You have to do your homework to determine >> > which you prefer. >> > >> > db >> > this is so silly...how long does is take to swap a HDD once a year? If your server goes down you're in deep doodoo anyway, even if the router stays up....you're spending thousands extra....an it takes months sometimes to get a new card from cisco if you have a failure, and you can have an entire spare PC available for the cost of a cisco serial card spare. Its nuts.... Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 09:08:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00320 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00301 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04508; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:13:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199611151713.MAA04508@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Steve From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> You don't want to use FreeBSD, fine. Just don't claim it's broken because >> you don't want to do the work to find out what the real problem is. >> > >That makes a lot of sense. I claim its broken because it is the only one >of 4 operating systems manifesting the problem. Perhaps its the only one of 4 O/S that you dont know how to configure? Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 09:40:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02140 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02093 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA26245 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:55:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA03365 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:36:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Dror Matalon wrote: > Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people > that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless > they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if > anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra > risk on my routers. On a machine with enough RAM you can either boot from floppy or the network. Once gated is running the only this it needs the disk for is logs and you can either disable them or redirect them across the net via NFS or use a RAMDISK and config gated for small log files only. Disk is only required to boot. > Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 > with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does > Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units > are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most > modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? Customers usually need a mail server, and web server as well as a router. Not to mention a firewall. For the load that the typical small to mid-sized office puts on their INternet connection, a FreeBSD box with an ET card and the right software can do the whole job. Add ssh and you can remotely admin the machine for the customer too. As always, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Some ISP's focus strictly on access and leave the other details to other companies. But some would like to provide their customers with a complete packaged solution like most VAR's do. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 09:51:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02881 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.PII.COM (pii.com [192.77.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02870 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from PII.COM by PII.COM (4.1/SMI-4.4) id AA29631; Fri, 15 Nov 96 09:50:53 PST Received: by smtp with Microsoft Mail id <328CAD45@smtp>; Fri, 15 Nov 96 09:49:57 PST From: Robert Clark To: freebsd-isp Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 09:49:00 PST Message-Id: <328CAD45@smtp> Encoding: 34 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Pabst ball bearing fans are great for power supplies. (Although replacing a power supplies' fan might invalidate the UL rating.) (Or its non-American equivalent.) I think they go for approx 30$, depending on how good of a deal you can get. The part most likely to fail in PC power supplies, is the fan. We replace the fan on new systems, as soon as we take them out of the shipping box, if they are going into pseudo-critical situations. [RC] ---------- From: owner-freebsd-isp To: rgrimes Cc: jdd; ulf; dror; isp Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Friday, November 15, 1996 10:34AM > > * CPU fan failures. About 10-15% have failed in a year. > > Start using these: > XX. MER PCP-9005 CPU-Cool 1.9" for A80502 Ball Bearing Clip 5 yr wrnty $ 18.00 > > They (PC Power and Cooling) also make fans for 486's and Pentium PRO's, > all are ball bearing, all come with a 5 year warranty. I have seen 4 > bad units, all at incoming inspection, out of 100's of units sold. Hi Rod, What about case and power supply fans? Any recommendations? ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 10:12:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04882 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from unibel.by (alice.unibel.by [195.50.0.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04772; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brc.minsk.by (brc.minsk.by [193.232.92.36]) by unibel.by (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA04613; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:11:00 +0200 (EET) Received: by brc.minsk.by (sendmail 8.6.6/8.6.8) id m0vOSlE-001C5DC; Fri, 15 Nov 96 20:13 EET Received: from david.wvb.gomel.by (david [150.97.0.2]) by wvb.gomel.by (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03269; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:03:45 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199611152003.WAA03269@wvb.gomel.by> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 14:24:24 0300 From: David Stickney MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crontab, Uucico question. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Crontab keeps sending me a note ever 5 minutes, saying: subj: Cron root /usr/libexec/atrun root: not found I'm thinkin' Hey, Im Root... here is what is in my var/cron/tabs/root # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall. # (/etc/crontab installed on Fri Nov 15 20:37:50 1996) # (Cron version -- $Id: crontab.c,v 1.3.4.1 1996/04/09 21:23:11 scrappy Exp $) # /etc/crontab - root's crontab for FreeBSD # # $Id: crontab,v 1.10.4.2 1996/06/05 20:28:12 nate Exp $ # From: Id: crontab,v 1.6 1993/05/31 02:03:57 cgd Exp # SHELL=/bin/sh PATH=/etc:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin HOME=/var/log # #minute hour mday month wday who command # */5 * * * * root /usr/libexec/atrun # # rotate log files every hour, if necessary #0 * * * * root /usr/sbin/newsyslog # # do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance 0 2 * * * root /etc/daily 2>&1 | sendmail root 30 3 * * 6 root /etc/weekly 2>&1 | sendmail root 30 5 1 * * root /etc/monthly 2>&1 | sendmail root # # time zone change adjustment for wall cmos clock, # does nothing, if you have UTC cmos clock. # See adjkerntz(8) for details. 1,31 0-4 * * * root /sbin/adjkerntz -a Anyways, What do i need to do ? Everything here is by the book, and I only edited the file in /etc. Also, how can I make uucico keep calling until a sucess? The docs method exits regardless of what kind of sucess. Please reply to me, as I'm not on the list. Best.. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 10:23:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05970 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from presence.lglobal.com (root@presence.lglobal.com [207.107.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05955 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from presence.lglobal.com (drop@presence.lglobal.com [207.107.12.2]) by presence.lglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00486; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:36:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:36:23 -0500 (EST) From: Colin Ryan To: Ricardo Kleemann cc: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: converting linux passwds into freebsd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > Hi! > > I have a set of users in linux and I want to convert them over to a > freebsd server. I'm not a linux guy but I think you just have to install the DES support and then rebuild master.passwd. > > Question: How can I insert each user's information/passwords into the > freebsd database? > > Thanks! > Ricardo > -------------------------------\\|!|//-------------------------------- | Colin P. Ryan \!/ Building Strategies and | | Local GlobalAccess Inc Solutions for Internets | | 320 1/2 Bloor St. W. Toronto. ON and Intranets | | e:drop@lglobal.com Phone: (416)515-7400 | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 11:12:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA09375 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:12:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09369 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA28548; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:07:22 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611151907.NAA28548@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line To: jsuter@intrastar.net (Jacob Suter) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:07:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: jdd@vbc.net, ulf@lamb.net, dror@dnai.com, isp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199611151629.KAA02782@intrastar.net> from "Jacob Suter" at Nov 15, 96 10:54:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > That is, the real problem is in the software. The hardware is far > more > > reliable. CPU fans are the least reliable bit of hardware. Hard > drives > > are very reliable indeed, just like their MTBF figures suggest. > > We use Am5x86 here exclusivly for our servers and most of our > workstations. These have the 486-size CPU... We were plagued with > fan failures occasionally until I was able to find some good fans > (ball bearings) and cheap enough to change them all every 3-4 months. > Costs me $35 to walk around and swap them all out, I stick them in a > box... if I have one of the newer ones fail I can always go back to > one of the old ones (if I am out of new ones) or give the old ones to > friends w/ fan problems, etc etc. > > plus, keeping the fan/heat sink clean REALLY helps. I try to clean > ours at least once a month with pressurized air - in extreme cases > remove the heat sink (re-greasing it afterward) and get rid of the > dust/crap on it. If you get the ADZ variant of the Am5x86 (as opposed to the ADW), you will find out that not only do you not need a fan, but you also don't need a heat sink. I put a heat sink on anyways but it does not need it. I just like to be safe. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 11:37:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA11276 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dnai.com (dnai.com [140.174.162.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA11271 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mars.dnai.com (mars.dnai.com [140.174.162.14]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13581; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:33:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: Dror Matalon To: Joe Greco cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611151452.IAA27765@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm beginning to buy this like of thinking. My original thinking was that I've seen disk fail more than anything on our FreeBsd servers so that I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of having a box with a disk running as a router. On the other hand the idea of one of our server having a disk failure doesn't cause fear in my heart the way having our Cisco fail does. I know that we have enough parts in house to rebuild almost any server from scratch in a couple of hours. We can get additional parts any day of the week, almost any time of the day. On the other hand if the Cisco's power supply or motherboard die we're in trouble. We do have dual Ethernets and dual T1s still, it's a bottleneck. So, I guess we'll start considering using T1 cards and FreeBSD boxes, just need to have a spare T1 card. Now, if someone would only offer a T3 card we'd be really happy. On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Look...all of the mentioned product work fine...if they didnt they none > > > of us would be in business. The original question of cisco 25XX vs > > > ET is a simple one...... > > > > Am I the only paranoid person on this list or are there other people > > that would not feel comfortable running FreeBsd as a router unless > > they were mirroring the disk. FreeBsd are great servers, but if > > anything fails it's the disk. I'd rather not have this extra > > risk on my routers. > > I would like to see support for mirroring of the disk, certainly. > > I have seen disks fail. > > I have seen hubs fail. > > I have seen network cards fail. > > I have seen cables fail. > > It does not really matter what you use for a router... I have seen > Ciscos fail due to faulty power supplies (Marquette University), I > have seen Ciscos crash due to software problems (a local ISP), I have > seen Ciscos rendered useless by pilot error. It is most impressive to > see a $70,000 7XXX class Cisco sitting useless waiting for spare parts. > > On the flip side, a poorly designed PC is unreliable and cranky. > > If you do not pay attention to power protection, adequate cooling (both > of the machine room and also inside the machine, ball bearing fans, extra > fans in the case, good CPU fan, cool running CPU, etc), motherboard > issues (get a GOOD PCIset from a reputable vendor), etc., your router > will be crappy and so will your reliability. You get what you pay for.. > and often you get less. > > With either a Cisco OR a PC, one needs to have a contingency plan for > WHEN (not if - WHEN) that piece of equipment fails. My personal feeling > is that it's cheaper to stock PC spare parts. I can use them for other > machines too if other machines fail. > > There is a "Contingency plan" list at that local ISP, if I remember > correctly, their contingency plan for failure of their Cisco 7XXX router > is to be screwed until replacement parts arrive. It says something to > that effect. > > My "Contingency plan" was recently tested when a hub died and somehow took > one of my routers with it. Unfortunately I was not able to get on site > for several hours, but I was able to cover the loss of my core router by > having a tech plug a few critical nets into the spare Ethernet ports I > am so fond of equipping my other routers with... it was not too hard to > reconfigure things so that I was mostly live. When I got on site, six > hours later, I took a waiting spare machine, plopped a 4-port PCI Ethernet > card in it, and 30 minutes later my "all new" core router was back on line. > > I was not happy with the failure of my contingency plan - it required > having someone present on site who could follow instructions over the > phone. > > I will soon be deploying redundant routers, with OSPF routing, to help > eliminate "single points of failure". > > So I think the real deal has more to do with proper contingency planning > than it does with Cisco routers. If and when the ISP with the Cisco has > their 7XXX crap out, they are S.O.L. If and when one of my routers craps > out, I will not have to worry too much. And I will have paid less than > $70,000 for my solution to the problem. > > You are not the only paranoid person. Paranoid people are the only people > who are successful playing this game in the long run. :-) > > ... JG > Dror Matalon Voice: 510 649-6110 Direct Network Access Fax: 510 649-7130 2039 Shattuck Avenue Modem: 510 649-6116 Berkeley, CA 94704 Email: dror@dnai.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:00:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12248 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from dnai.com (dnai.com [140.174.162.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12243 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mars.dnai.com (mars.dnai.com [140.174.162.14]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16231; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:59:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:59:06 -0800 (PST) From: Dror Matalon To: dennis cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611151704.MAA04419@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 > >with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does > >Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units > >are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most > >modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? > > This is the same non-thinking argument that has been used for You sure have a way with words. > a long time, and it makes no sense bacause you are not comparing > apples to apples. You still need a server with a standalone router, > so you have 2 points of failure instead of 1 (with an internal card). It makes perfect sense to me. 1. I have a client that has a network they want to hook up to us, they want to set their mail and web server on an NT, Sun, Mac or whatever OS.am I going to tell them that they shouldn't do that that they should use the FreeBSD router that they get from us as their server? No, I don't. 2. If a disk fails on the web server, client machines can still go to the net. If the router's disk fails all Net services are dead in the water. Now note that I'm not completly opposed to using FreeBsd as a router. As I pointed earlier, between a FreeBSD box and a Cisco I'm beginning to favor the FreeBSD box because of the ease of finding replacement parts. But for our clients I still feel that the P130 is a nice inexpensive solution. > > This subject annoyed us enough that we put up a FAQ of > routers vs sync cards at: > > http://www.etinc.com/routers.htm > > no doubt somewhat biased, but entertaining nonetheless! > > Dennis > > Dror Matalon Voice: 510 649-6110 Direct Network Access Fax: 510 649-7130 2039 Shattuck Avenue Modem: 510 649-6116 Berkeley, CA 94704 Email: dror@dnai.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:05:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12740 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12735 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA05738; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:11:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:11:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199611152011.PAA05738@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Dror Matalon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >> >Also, for our customers we're happy with the Ascend Pipeline 130 >> >with built in CSU. You can get one for less than $1200 it does >> >Frame and even has an ISDN line for backup. These units >> >are the same size of a Pipeline 50 -- not much bigger than most >> >modems. Is a Freebsd box with a T1 card and a CSU any cheaper? >> >> This is the same non-thinking argument that has been used for > >You sure have a way with words. thanks! > >> a long time, and it makes no sense bacause you are not comparing >> apples to apples. You still need a server with a standalone router, >> so you have 2 points of failure instead of 1 (with an internal card). > >It makes perfect sense to me. >1. I have a client that has a network they want to hook up to us, they >want to set their mail and web server on an NT, Sun, Mac or whatever >OS.am I going to tell them that they shouldn't do that that they >should use the FreeBSD router that they get from us as their server? >No, I don't. No, but you could get a card for an NT box...this isn't just about FreeBSD. It makes little sense to use freebsd as a 1 goesinto- 1 goesouta router....if your customer is stuck on NT then you have little choice. > >2. If a disk fails on the web server, client machines can still >go to the net. If the router's disk fails all Net services >are dead in the water. Assuming that the router goes down when the disk fails....my Netware servers been up about 2 years now....and it takes an awful lot of punishment. This argument had much more validity in the MFM days....when life was different. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:26:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA13688 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13682 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA05879; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:31:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:31:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199611152031.PAA05879@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Dror Matalon From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'm beginning to buy this like of thinking. >My original thinking was that I've seen disk fail more than anything >on our FreeBsd servers so that I didn't feel comfortable with the >idea of having a box with a disk running as a router. >On the other hand the idea of one of our server having a disk failure >doesn't cause fear in my heart the way having our Cisco fail does. >I know that we have enough parts in house to rebuild almost any >server from scratch in a couple of hours. We can get additional >parts any day of the week, almost any time of the day. On the >other hand if the Cisco's power supply or motherboard die we're >in trouble. We do have dual Ethernets and dual T1s still, it's >a bottleneck. > >So, I guess we'll start considering using T1 cards and FreeBSD boxes, >just need to have a spare T1 card. >Now, if someone would only offer a T3 card we'd be really happy. If only someone could get Freebsd to switch 17,000pps or more.... Whats the fractional T3 market? We're comtemplating putting an HSSI on our new PCI card (don't even ask!) which would be able to do ~32Mbs. To do full T3 would require redesign, and I dont think FreeBSD or any other unix platform could reliably switch 86Mbs, so I'm not sure its worth the effort. The advantage of the 32Mbs solution is that there would be no driver that needs to be written...it would just be an interface (HSSI vs V.35) difference on our standard product. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:27:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA13878 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:27:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13846; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA28842; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:26:38 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611152026.OAA28842@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Crontab, Uucico question. To: david@wvb.gomel.by (David Stickney) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:26:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199611152003.WAA03269@wvb.gomel.by> from "David Stickney" at Oct 10, 96 02:24:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > Crontab keeps sending me a note ever 5 minutes, saying: > > subj: Cron root /usr/libexec/atrun > root: not found > > I'm thinkin' Hey, Im Root... > > here is what is in my var/cron/tabs/root ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall. > # (/etc/crontab installed on Fri Nov 15 20:37:50 1996) > # (Cron version -- $Id: crontab.c,v 1.3.4.1 1996/04/09 21:23:11 scrappy Exp $) > # /etc/crontab - root's crontab for FreeBSD ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > # $Id: crontab,v 1.10.4.2 1996/06/05 20:28:12 nate Exp $ > # From: Id: crontab,v 1.6 1993/05/31 02:03:57 cgd Exp If this is your /var/cron/tabs/root, it is wrong. /etc/crontab specifies both the user name and the command to run. The user name is implicit for /var/cron/tabs/root, you need to remove the user name "root" from this file. Note: it is probably confusing to have both a /var/cron/tabs/root and an /etc/crontab. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:44:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA14902 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from inetsrv.wtrt.net (inetsrv.wtrt.net [205.231.181.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14892 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from allenh.wtrt.net (local2.wtrt.net [205.231.181.228]) by inetsrv.wtrt.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA06111 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:45:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611152045.OAA06111@inetsrv.wtrt.net> From: "Allen Hyer" To: Subject: Re: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:44:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I haven't tried 13.1, but I am running 10.1 without any problems. All I did was compile them for BSD unix. Allen Hyer System Administrator West Texas Rural Telephone ---------- > From: Aaron D. Gifford > To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? > Date: Friday, November 15, 1996 12:15 AM > > Is anyone here running Xylogics' (Bay Network's) erpcd authentication > daemon on FreeBSD 2.1.5, particularly version 13.1? I can't get anyting > except for an old version of 9.x working. > > Wondering, > Aaron Gifford > InfoWest Networking > > > --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- > Aaron D. Gifford InfoWest, 1845 W. Sunset Blvd, St. George, UT 84770 > InfoWest Networking Phone: (801) 674-0165 FAX: (801) 673-9734 > Visit InfoWest at: "http://www.infowest.com/" > ICBM: 37.08N, 113.58W PGP Pub. Key at http://www.infowest.com/a/agifford/ > "Southern Utah's Finest Network Connection" > --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 12:55:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15592 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15584; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA28976; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:11:17 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05210; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:52:03 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:52:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: David Stickney cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Crontab, Uucico question. In-Reply-To: <199611152003.WAA03269@wvb.gomel.by> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, David Stickney wrote: > here is what is in my var/cron/tabs/root > #minute hour mday month wday who command ^^^ Ooops. This only goes in /etc/crontab, not in the other ones. You are telling it to run a command name "root" which it cannot find. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 13:29:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17604 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from alyssa.ai.net ([208.194.40.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17594 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nc@localhost) by alyssa.ai.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA23177; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:26:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:26:28 -0500 (EST) From: Network Coordinator To: Steve cc: Jim Dixon , Veggy Vinny , isp@freebsd.org, Chad Shackley Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list > active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very > close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. > With our enterprise 2501s we have seen sustained wirespeed on both ports for days at a time [on connections from customers]. I mean the 5 minute averages were 1500000 and 1520000 bits/second. John Hubbel American Information Network From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 13:30:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17650 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17624 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA29032; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:27:50 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611152127.PAA29032@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:27:49 -0600 (CST) Cc: dror@dnai.com, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611152031.PAA05879@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Nov 15, 96 03:31:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'm beginning to buy this like of thinking. > >My original thinking was that I've seen disk fail more than anything > >on our FreeBsd servers so that I didn't feel comfortable with the > >idea of having a box with a disk running as a router. > >On the other hand the idea of one of our server having a disk failure > >doesn't cause fear in my heart the way having our Cisco fail does. > >I know that we have enough parts in house to rebuild almost any > >server from scratch in a couple of hours. We can get additional > >parts any day of the week, almost any time of the day. On the > >other hand if the Cisco's power supply or motherboard die we're > >in trouble. We do have dual Ethernets and dual T1s still, it's > >a bottleneck. > > > >So, I guess we'll start considering using T1 cards and FreeBSD boxes, > >just need to have a spare T1 card. > >Now, if someone would only offer a T3 card we'd be really happy. > > If only someone could get Freebsd to switch 17,000pps or more.... > > Whats the fractional T3 market? We're comtemplating putting an > HSSI on our new PCI card (don't even ask!) which would be able > to do ~32Mbs. To do full T3 would require redesign, and I dont think > FreeBSD or any other unix platform could reliably switch 86Mbs, so > I'm not sure its worth the effort. The advantage of the 32Mbs solution is > that there would be no driver that needs to be written...it would just be > an interface (HSSI vs V.35) difference on our standard product. Hi Dennis, I am guessing that your "32Mbs" would be a 16Mbps frac T3 line, bidirectional? I was reliably routing 5000pps the other day on a Pentium 100... and it did not seem particularly stressed out. Has anybody set up the equipment to actually _try_ this? It would be interesting, no doubt :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 13:30:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA17699 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17689 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26463; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:28:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199611152128.NAA26463@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611151634.KAA28097@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Nov 15, 96 10:34:37 am" To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:28:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: jdd@vbc.net, ulf@lamb.net, dror@dnai.com, isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > * CPU fan failures. About 10-15% have failed in a year. > > > > Start using these: > > XX. MER PCP-9005 CPU-Cool 1.9" for A80502 Ball Bearing Clip 5 yr wrnty $ 18.00 > > > > They (PC Power and Cooling) also make fans for 486's and Pentium PRO's, > > all are ball bearing, all come with a 5 year warranty. I have seen 4 > > bad units, all at incoming inspection, out of 100's of units sold. > > Hi Rod, > > What about case and power supply fans? Any recommendations? Sorry, not really, other than to go to Digi-Key and get some of the $18.00+ Ball Bearing fans they sell. I do have your other mail on this subject as an action item to look at, just no time to go looking :-( -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 13:48:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA19487 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19482 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06437; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:53:32 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:53:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199611152153.QAA06437@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >I'm beginning to buy this like of thinking. >> >My original thinking was that I've seen disk fail more than anything >> >on our FreeBsd servers so that I didn't feel comfortable with the >> >idea of having a box with a disk running as a router. >> >On the other hand the idea of one of our server having a disk failure >> >doesn't cause fear in my heart the way having our Cisco fail does. >> >I know that we have enough parts in house to rebuild almost any >> >server from scratch in a couple of hours. We can get additional >> >parts any day of the week, almost any time of the day. On the >> >other hand if the Cisco's power supply or motherboard die we're >> >in trouble. We do have dual Ethernets and dual T1s still, it's >> >a bottleneck. >> > >> >So, I guess we'll start considering using T1 cards and FreeBSD boxes, >> >just need to have a spare T1 card. >> >Now, if someone would only offer a T3 card we'd be really happy. >> >> If only someone could get Freebsd to switch 17,000pps or more.... >> >> Whats the fractional T3 market? We're comtemplating putting an >> HSSI on our new PCI card (don't even ask!) which would be able >> to do ~32Mbs. To do full T3 would require redesign, and I dont think >> FreeBSD or any other unix platform could reliably switch 86Mbs, so >> I'm not sure its worth the effort. The advantage of the 32Mbs solution is >> that there would be no driver that needs to be written...it would just be >> an interface (HSSI vs V.35) difference on our standard product. > >Hi Dennis, > >I am guessing that your "32Mbs" would be a 16Mbps frac T3 line, >bidirectional? No, I mean 32Mbs full duplex, which is about 3/4 T3. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 14:07:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA20430 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20409 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA29223; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:05:21 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611152205.QAA29223@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase To: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:05:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: shovey@buffnet.net, jdd@vbc.net, richardc@csua.berkeley.edu, isp@freebsd.org, chad@gaianet.net In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Nov 15, 96 04:26:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I dont know why people are bashing the 2501's - with an access list > > active, my router stats on one of my T-1s has at times shown thruput very > > close the to max a T-1 one can handle going full guns. > > With our enterprise 2501s we have seen sustained wirespeed on both ports > for days at a time [on connections from customers]. I mean the 5 minute > averages were 1500000 and 1520000 bits/second. In one direction, or two? What was the average packet size? Curious folks want to know :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 14:22:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA21541 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from orka.linkeasy.net (orka.linkeasy.net [206.117.216.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA21500; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from shit.linkeasy.net ([206.117.216.228]) by orka.linkeasy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14192; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:19:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:19:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611152219.OAA14192@orka.linkeasy.net> X-Sender: admin@mail.linkeasy.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mike Parks Subject: FreeBSD and Computone Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am using a 64 port Computone Intelliserver and USR sportster modems. My server is is FreeBSD 2.1.5 . I am having a problem with dial in and I am not sure if it is in the Terminal server or my FreeBSD box. I can authenticate the first ppp dial up connection with no problem, but when a second user dials in the modem picks up, the server prompts for usr name and password then disconnects every time. I have tested each port by dialing in directly and each works but when I try to dial in a second user it wont let him into any port. If anyone can help I need it Mike Parks Network Sciences Corporation 1140 Westwood Blvd suite 208 Los Angeles Ca 90025 310-208-7233 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 14:30:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA22126 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22087 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA06688; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:32:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:32:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199611152232.RAA06688@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Whats the fractional T3 market? We're comtemplating putting an >> >> HSSI on our new PCI card (don't even ask!) which would be able >> >> to do ~32Mbs. To do full T3 would require redesign, and I dont think >> >> FreeBSD or any other unix platform could reliably switch 86Mbs, so >> >> I'm not sure its worth the effort. The advantage of the 32Mbs solution is >> >> that there would be no driver that needs to be written...it would just be >> >> an interface (HSSI vs V.35) difference on our standard product. >> > >> >Hi Dennis, >> > >> >I am guessing that your "32Mbs" would be a 16Mbps frac T3 line, >> >bidirectional? >> >> No, I mean 32Mbs full duplex, which is about 3/4 T3. > >Hmmmm :-) > >I was confused by why you mentioned 86Mbps above, then. What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be overkill. > >Cool, do it :-) The harder you push, the more likely it is someone will >take up the challenge of how to route more quickly. Gee...what I was hoping to get is what people need.....is there a substantial fractional T3 requirement? or does everyone need/want full T3? Would anyone buy a 32Mbs card, or is it a waste if it doesnt to full t3? It seems that there should be a market for relatively low-speed fiber....increasing the clock rate as you need bandwidth. 20 T1s is a lot of bandwidth. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 15:39:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA27265 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27256 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04753; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:10:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611152310.RAA04753@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Joe Greco" Cc: , , , Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:35:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you get the ADZ variant of the Am5x86 (as opposed to the ADW), you > will find out that not only do you not need a fan, but you also don't > need a heat sink. I am running the ADZ here on the servers. I overclock them to 40mhz, running them at 160 MHz instead of 133 MHz. Eats a P100 in most tests, but requires the systems to have heat sink/fans. they get too hot for my liking without the fan (just the heat sink) even at 133. Even at 160 tho, they are rock stable, run cool (with a good fan/heatsink), and SPEEDS... > I put a heat sink on anyways but it does not need it. I just like to > be safe. Yeah. I'm one of those "the cooler the better" people. heat grease, fast fans and big heat sinks are my friends :) JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 17:48:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA02939 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02934 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA27953; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:48:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:46:23 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: dennis cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? In-Reply-To: <199611152232.RAA06688@etinc.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady > 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be > overkill. Hmmm...Apparently you are not aware of the Ascend GRF 400. http://www.ascend.com/products/grf400/grf400index.html > Gee...what I was hoping to get is what people need.....is there a substantial > fractional T3 requirement? or does everyone need/want full T3? Would anyone > buy a 32Mbs card, or is it a waste if it doesnt to full t3? It seems that > there should > be a market for relatively low-speed fiber....increasing the clock rate as > you need > bandwidth. 20 T1s is a lot of bandwidth. A lot of bandwidth today, a full pipe tomorrow. As for building a card that can do frac T3, I think there probably would be a market. Many are probably looking for a middle ground between T1 and T3. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 18:16:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04231 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04226 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 18:16:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA01719; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:16:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:16:48 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199611160216.VAA01719@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: agifford@infowest.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.isp References: <56h3c9$riv@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.isp you write: >Is anyone here running Xylogics' (Bay Network's) erpcd authentication >daemon on FreeBSD 2.1.5, particularly version 13.1? I can't get anyting >except for an old version of 9.x working. Strange, It compiled (hell it recognizes FreeBSD) out of the box using the standard install tools. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 20:34:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA10767 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alur1.alurtenaga.com.my (alur1.alurtenaga.com.my [161.142.254.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10761 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sting.alurtenaga.com.my ([192.228.211.73]) by alur1.alurtenaga.com.my (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA12480; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:14:33 GMT Received: by sting.alurtenaga.com.my with Microsoft Mail id <01BBD3B6.F0FC5D40@sting.alurtenaga.com.my>; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:08:56 +-800 Message-ID: <01BBD3B6.F0FC5D40@sting.alurtenaga.com.my> From: Ahmad Lokman To: "'Allen Hyer'" , "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:08:45 +-800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've tried ver 11.1.7 on FreeBSD 2.1 without any problem ---------- From: Allen Hyer[SMTP:allenh@wtrt.net] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 1996 4:44 AM To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? I haven't tried 13.1, but I am running 10.1 without any problems. All I did was compile them for BSD unix. Allen Hyer System Administrator West Texas Rural Telephone ---------- > From: Aaron D. Gifford > To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Xylogics' erpcd 13.1 on FreeBSD 2.1.5 anyone? > Date: Friday, November 15, 1996 12:15 AM > > Is anyone here running Xylogics' (Bay Network's) erpcd authentication > daemon on FreeBSD 2.1.5, particularly version 13.1? I can't get anyting > except for an old version of 9.x working. > > Wondering, > Aaron Gifford > InfoWest Networking > > > --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- > Aaron D. Gifford InfoWest, 1845 W. Sunset Blvd, St. George, UT 84770 > InfoWest Networking Phone: (801) 674-0165 FAX: (801) 673-9734 > Visit InfoWest at: "http://www.infowest.com/" > ICBM: 37.08N, 113.58W PGP Pub. Key at http://www.infowest.com/a/agifford/ > "Southern Utah's Finest Network Connection" > --=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=--=+=-- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Nov 15 21:08:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA12053 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12048 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:08:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id XAA29769; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:06:20 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611160506.XAA29769@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:06:20 -0600 (CST) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611152232.RAA06688@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Nov 15, 96 05:32:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Cool, do it :-) The harder you push, the more likely it is someone will > >take up the challenge of how to route more quickly. > > Gee...what I was hoping to get is what people need.....is there a substantial > fractional T3 requirement? or does everyone need/want full T3? Would anyone > buy a 32Mbs card, or is it a waste if it doesnt to full t3? It seems that > there should > be a market for relatively low-speed fiber....increasing the clock rate as > you need > bandwidth. 20 T1s is a lot of bandwidth. Hi Dennis, I guess it depends on whether or not it is sold as an option (by the networking service provider)... I usually see people talk about frac-T1, T1, and then immediately jump to T3. Translation: I see less of a market for frac-T3 than I do for T3. In my opinion, if I were you, I would certainly rev up my current product to handle frac-T3, on the condition that doing so was not a MAJOR re-engineering process. You were mumbling something about PCI too, and I can see a PCI sync serial card capable of speeds from 56k to frac-T3 as being attractive... even if you leave the ISA stuff alone. But I am sure you are aware of what is happening in this business. Modems are getting faster, the percent of households with Internet connectivity is going up, and the ISP that had a T1 two years ago now has dual T3's and a hundredfold growth. Bandwidth is becoming more and more of an issue, as more people want to move data faster. If you can provide a T3-capable card, that may have applications in large Internet server environments, in addition to router environments. As for me: would I buy one? No. I do not see my own bandwidth needs exceeding dual-T1 within a year, and at those rates, I would go dual-T1 for redundancy's sake. ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 01:18:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA18158 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18151 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAB11643; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:14:37 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199611160914.LAB11643@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase In-Reply-To: from Jim Dixon at "Nov 15, 96 08:32:39 am" To: jdd@vbc.net (Jim Dixon) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:14:37 +0200 (SAT) Cc: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, isp@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required > > > >> to write and maintain drivers? > > > >> ... > > > >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. > > > >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards > > > >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. > > > > > > Have you done any systematic tests of the relative performance of > the N2 (which uses the ISA bus) and the N2pci (which uses the PCI bus) ? No, I used a 486 for the ISA development and a Pentium for the N2pci development. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 07:30:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02589 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02581 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA13447; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:36:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:36:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161536.KAA13447@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jacob Suter" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> If you get the ADZ variant of the Am5x86 (as opposed to the ADW), >you >> will find out that not only do you not need a fan, but you also >don't >> need a heat sink. > >I am running the ADZ here on the servers. I overclock them to 40mhz, >running them at 160 MHz instead of 133 MHz. This is really funny! We're talking about systems stability, overheating, etc and your running your processor 20% out of spec. Talk about bad moves... Note that running your processor over spec is not highly recommended to ISPs who are concerned about long-term stabilty. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 07:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02827 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02817 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA13490; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:42:33 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:42:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161542.KAA13490@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bradley Dunn From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >> What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady >> 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be >> overkill. > >Hmmm...Apparently you are not aware of the Ascend GRF 400. >http://www.ascend.com/products/grf400/grf400index.html Perhaps you haven't read it yourself? They are certainly not running anything similar to standard unix....they "cheat" by maintaining on-board caches so packets don't have to pass through the IP layer, as BSD design requires. Certainly you can do something similar for BSD systems, but it won't be a standard release O/S afterwards. Such things are OK if you are building a special-function system, but non highly desireable for general purpose O/Ss Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 07:46:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA03255 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA03246 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA13539; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:50:59 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:50:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161550.KAA13539@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >Cool, do it :-) The harder you push, the more likely it is someone will >> >take up the challenge of how to route more quickly. >> >> Gee...what I was hoping to get is what people need.....is there a substantial >> fractional T3 requirement? or does everyone need/want full T3? Would anyone >> buy a 32Mbs card, or is it a waste if it doesnt to full t3? It seems that >> there should >> be a market for relatively low-speed fiber....increasing the clock rate as >> you need >> bandwidth. 20 T1s is a lot of bandwidth. > >Hi Dennis, > >I guess it depends on whether or not it is sold as an option (by the >networking service provider)... I usually see people talk about frac-T1, >T1, and then immediately jump to T3. > >Translation: I see less of a market for frac-T3 than I do for T3. This totally confused me, and I cant belive its true. The cost differential between T1 and T3 is what, 12x or more.....it seems unlikely that anyone could take that much of a hit......Our upstream provider is on a 4Mbs HSSI and plans on moving up as needed. > >In my opinion, if I were you, I would certainly rev up my current >product to handle frac-T3, on the condition that doing so was not >a MAJOR re-engineering process. You were mumbling something about >PCI too, and I can see a PCI sync serial card capable of speeds from >56k to frac-T3 as being attractive... even if you leave the ISA >stuff alone. Our current product runs well over 10Mbs...but I dont think that many people realize the HSSI is just a faster version of V.35...you can run V.35 fractional T3 util you get over the 10Mbs physical limitations......ie, you can connect a V.35 product on one end of a T3 and HSSI on the other...its just like RS-232 and V.35 for lower speed stuff....they are not end-to-end requirements. >As for me: would I buy one? No. I do not see my own bandwidth needs >exceeding dual-T1 within a year, and at those rates, I would go dual-T1 >for redundancy's sake. In some places (canada, i believe), they are like giving away fiber....of course the service costs are astronomical....it seems a matter of time before fiber is much less expensive and T3 fracs are the way to add a T1 of bandwidth as needed.... Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 08:00:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA04088 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04079 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13615; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:06:07 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:06:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161606.LAA13615@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hay From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Decision in Router Purchase Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> > > >> Is SDL forthcoming with the technical information required >> > > >> to write and maintain drivers? >> > > >> ... >> > > >Yes, I have written the driver with the information they have given me. >> > > >They have been very helpful. They even supplied and shipped 2 N2 boards >> > > >and a N2pci board from the USA to me here in South Africa. >> > > > >> >> Have you done any systematic tests of the relative performance of >> the N2 (which uses the ISA bus) and the N2pci (which uses the PCI bus) ? > >No, I used a 486 for the ISA development and a Pentium for the N2pci >development. We did testing (we had a dual-T1 PCI board on the table in March), and the results were not significant for 1 or 2 T1lines, which is pretty much why we scrapped it and decided to do something different. Given that the design of the processor allows for full bandwidth utilization, the overall gain is minimal. the vast majority of the processing time is in software. When you get to about 10Mbs aggragate bandwidth (which is about 5 T1 with average full-duplex usage of 2Mbs), you get a worthwhile gain. The ethernet ISA-to-PCI differences are much more dramatic, mainly because the ISA cards had processors and designs that were not capable of filling the bandwidth (ie, there was no auto-transmit, generally only 2 transmit buffers, etc)..plus you're talking about 10Mbs. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 08:11:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA04693 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04667 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA00293; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:10:13 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199611161610.KAA00293@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:10:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199611161550.KAA13539@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Nov 16, 96 10:50:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Hi Dennis, > > > >I guess it depends on whether or not it is sold as an option (by the > >networking service provider)... I usually see people talk about frac-T1, > >T1, and then immediately jump to T3. > > > >Translation: I see less of a market for frac-T3 than I do for T3. > > This totally confused me, and I cant belive its true. The cost differential > between T1 and T3 is what, 12x or more.....it seems unlikely that anyone > could take that much of a hit......Our upstream provider is on a 4Mbs HSSI and > plans on moving up as needed. I don't see that happening here, at least locally. What I usually see is people going for T3, the circuit costs are not so terribly different, and then the upstream provider meters bandwidth or performs rate limiting of some sort. > >In my opinion, if I were you, I would certainly rev up my current > >product to handle frac-T3, on the condition that doing so was not > >a MAJOR re-engineering process. You were mumbling something about > >PCI too, and I can see a PCI sync serial card capable of speeds from > >56k to frac-T3 as being attractive... even if you leave the ISA > >stuff alone. > > Our current product runs well over 10Mbs...but I dont think that many people > realize the HSSI is just a faster version of V.35...you can run V.35 fractional > T3 util you get over the 10Mbs physical limitations......ie, you can connect > a V.35 product on one end of a T3 and HSSI on the other...its just like > RS-232 and V.35 for lower speed stuff....they are not end-to-end requirements. Sure. But your ISA based product is going to get a little slow handling such high speeds, I would think? Maybe not. I would rather see a PCI based solution, but that is just personal preference. > >As for me: would I buy one? No. I do not see my own bandwidth needs > >exceeding dual-T1 within a year, and at those rates, I would go dual-T1 > >for redundancy's sake. > > In some places (canada, i believe), they are like giving away fiber....of course > the service costs are astronomical....it seems a matter of time before fiber is > much less expensive and T3 fracs are the way to add a T1 of bandwidth as > needed.... Fiber is pretty cheap around here, that is why there is so much interest in T3. Lower latency, higher bandwidth. I can ping Karl's MCS.NET down in Chicago with about 3 or 4ms delay... :-) The way I see it going: bandwidth will continue to get cheaper over time. The circuits are already cheap and people are already buying them at T3 capacities. This is going to continue to be pushed by the development of 56K modem technologies, ADSL/cable modems, and other technologies to deliver high speed data services to the end user. That's how I see the game developing. I usually predict large scale leaps forward, and historically I have been shown to have made somewhat conservative predictions. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 08:51:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA07317 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07312 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:51:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13898; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:56:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:56:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161656.LAA13898@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >Hi Dennis, >> > >> >I guess it depends on whether or not it is sold as an option (by the >> >networking service provider)... I usually see people talk about frac-T1, >> >T1, and then immediately jump to T3. >> > >> >Translation: I see less of a market for frac-T3 than I do for T3. >> >> This totally confused me, and I cant belive its true. The cost differential >> between T1 and T3 is what, 12x or more.....it seems unlikely that anyone >> could take that much of a hit......Our upstream provider is on a 4Mbs HSSI and >> plans on moving up as needed. > >I don't see that happening here, at least locally. > >What I usually see is people going for T3, the circuit costs are not so >terribly different, and then the upstream provider meters bandwidth or >performs rate limiting of some sort. It is my understanding that the "rate-limiting" was flipping switches on the T3 CSU/DSU,which is fractional T3 (ie, adjusting the clock rate). That IS what I'm talking about! >> Our current product runs well over 10Mbs...but I dont think that many people >> realize the HSSI is just a faster version of V.35...you can run V.35 fractional >> T3 util you get over the 10Mbs physical limitations......ie, you can connect >> a V.35 product on one end of a T3 and HSSI on the other...its just like >> RS-232 and V.35 for lower speed stuff....they are not end-to-end requirements. > >Sure. But your ISA based product is going to get a little slow handling >such high speeds, I would think? Maybe not. I would rather see a PCI >based solution, but that is just personal preference. Im not talking about ISA...... Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 09:51:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09972 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09967 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA28848; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:51:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:48:58 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? In-Reply-To: <199611161542.KAA13490@etinc.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > > > >> What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady > >> 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be > >> overkill. > > > >Hmmm...Apparently you are not aware of the Ascend GRF 400. > >http://www.ascend.com/products/grf400/grf400index.html > > Perhaps you haven't read it yourself? They are certainly not running anything > similar to standard unix....they "cheat" by maintaining on-board caches so > packets don't have to pass through the IP layer, as BSD design requires. > Certainly you can do something similar for BSD systems, but it won't > be a standard release O/S afterwards. Such things are OK if you are building > a special-function system, but non highly desireable for general purpose O/Ss Exactly, but you seemed to be saying that unix could not route at that speed. The Ascend embedded OS is a hacked unix. It uses gated, but you could in fact use anything that writes to the unix routing socket. I call that unix. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 10:02:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA10365 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10358 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14281; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 13:08:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 13:08:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199611161808.NAA14281@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bradley Dunn From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bradley Dunn writes.... > >> >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: >> > >> >> What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady >> >> 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be >> >> overkill. >> > >> >Hmmm...Apparently you are not aware of the Ascend GRF 400. >> >http://www.ascend.com/products/grf400/grf400index.html >> >> Perhaps you haven't read it yourself? They are certainly not running anything >> similar to standard unix....they "cheat" by maintaining on-board caches so >> packets don't have to pass through the IP layer, as BSD design requires. >> Certainly you can do something similar for BSD systems, but it won't >> be a standard release O/S afterwards. Such things are OK if you are building >> a special-function system, but non highly desireable for general purpose O/Ss > >Exactly, but you seemed to be saying that unix could not route at that >speed. The Ascend embedded OS is a hacked unix. It uses gated, but you >could in fact use anything that writes to the unix routing socket. I call >that unix. Hacked_unix != unix. Its severely hacked. Cisco IOS is hacked unix also.... but its hardly comparable. If you are asking if unix could be modified to work, then the answer is certainly. but it would cease to be the same product....which is the point I was making. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 10:25:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11123 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:25:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11118 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09929; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:58:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611161758.LAA09929@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "dennis" Cc: Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:22:22 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is really funny! We're talking about systems stability, overheating, etc > and your running your processor 20% out of spec. Talk about bad moves... > Note that running your processor over spec is not highly recommended to > ISPs who are concerned about long-term stabilty. According to what I have read, this chip was designed to actually run 160, but they didn't want it to compete with the more expensive K5/6x86/P5 chips. So, they marketed it as the cooler 133 solution (which is only P66-P75ish speed).. I don't know what bug crawled in your ass lately, but its really beginning to be annoying. JS From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 11:14:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA13843 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13835 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA12985 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:29:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17338 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:10:46 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line In-Reply-To: <199611161758.LAA09929@intrastar.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Jacob Suter wrote: > > This is really funny! We're talking about systems stability, > overheating, etc > > and your running your processor 20% out of spec. Talk about bad > moves... > According to what I have read, this chip was designed to actually run > 160, but they didn't want it to compete with the more expensive > K5/6x86/P5 chips. So, they marketed it as the cooler 133 solution > (which is only P66-P75ish speed).. If it wasn't tested to run at 166 and if the manufacturer won't support running it that fast then you are running it overspec. > I don't know what bug crawled in your ass lately, but its really > beginning to be annoying. Not as annoying as the bug that crawled in yours. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 11:54:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15464 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca (root@cicerone.uunet.ca [142.77.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15459 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from why.whine.com ([205.150.249.1]) by mail.uunet.ca with ESMTP id <115862-19847>; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:53:47 -0500 Received: from why (andrew@why [205.150.249.1]) by why.whine.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00466; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:53:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:53:29 -0500 From: Andrew Herdman X-Sender: andrew@why To: Bradley Dunn cc: dennis , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Bradley Dunn wrote: > On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > > > >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > >> What I was saying was that I dont thing unix can route a steady > > >> 86Mbs data stream, so a full T3 on a unix box may very well be > > >> overkill. > > > > > >Hmmm...Apparently you are not aware of the Ascend GRF 400. > > >http://www.ascend.com/products/grf400/grf400index.html > > > > Perhaps you haven't read it yourself? They are certainly not running anything > > similar to standard unix....they "cheat" by maintaining on-board caches so > > packets don't have to pass through the IP layer, as BSD design requires. > > Certainly you can do something similar for BSD systems, but it won't > > be a standard release O/S afterwards. Such things are OK if you are building > > a special-function system, but non highly desireable for general purpose O/Ss > > Exactly, but you seemed to be saying that unix could not route at that > speed. The Ascend embedded OS is a hacked unix. It uses gated, but you > could in fact use anything that writes to the unix routing socket. I call > that unix. > > -BD > The UNIX itself doesn't actually do the routing. It creates the table and download's it down to the actual interface cards which use a type of silicon switching to route the packets. The UNIX portion of the box simply makes the tables. Andrew From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 12:19:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA16432 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16424 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (user@ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA15085; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:25:15 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:25:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199611162025.PAA15085@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jacob Suter" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> This is really funny! We're talking about systems stability, >overheating, etc >> and your running your processor 20% out of spec. Talk about bad >moves... >> Note that running your processor over spec is not highly >recommended to >> ISPs who are concerned about long-term stabilty. > >According to what I have read, this chip was designed to actually run >160, but they didn't want it to compete with the more expensive >K5/6x86/P5 chips. So, they marketed it as the cooler 133 solution >(which is only P66-P75ish speed).. > >I don't know what bug crawled in your ass lately, but its really >beginning to be annoying. Dont take it personally...it just seems funny that anyone who is worried about minor cooling issues would run a processor at such a dangerous temperature. Its not a big win financially, and seems like its not worth the risk. The irony is that people who are spending thousands of extra dollars because they 're worried about a hard drive failure might just be likely to pay the extra few dollars for a Pentium with proper cooling db From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 12:33:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17056 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from orka.linkeasy.net (orka.linkeasy.net [206.117.216.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17051 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from shit.linkeasy.net ([206.117.216.228]) by orka.linkeasy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17166 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:31:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:31:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611162031.MAA17166@orka.linkeasy.net> X-Sender: admin@mail.linkeasy.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Parks Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Computone Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:30:36 >To: Neal Horman >From: Mike Parks >Subject: Re: FreeBSD and Computone > >My problem is solved. Thanks, it was a problem with remote profiles configured in TS. or I should say lack of them... > > >At 06:20 PM 11/15/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Hello Mike, >> >> I just recently went though this same problem. >> >> It boils down to... If you configure ppp ports from scratch >>at least... (remote profiles, and "configure port") after you have booted >>the TS, then you must reboot the TS, because it only alocates enough >>memory per remote profile, as you have configured at the time of boot. :( >> >> Also take the opportunity to upgrade the software in the rack at >>the same time. You'll need to make sure that you tftp from a server >>somewhere to do it though. And you'll know that you can do that >>successfully if you can save your rack configuration to a tftp server >>successfully. >> >> When i looked last week (ftp://ftp.computone.com/pub/other/iserver/rac15*) >>the latest version of the rack kernel was rac151c. >> >>---------- >>Neal Horman System Admin. >>InternetNow http://www.doitnow.com >> >> >>On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Mike Parks wrote: >> >>> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:19:37 -0800 (PST) >>> From: Mike Parks >>> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >>> Subject: FreeBSD and Computone >>> >>> I am using a 64 port Computone Intelliserver and USR sportster modems. My >>> server is is FreeBSD 2.1.5 . I am having a problem with dial in and I am not >>> sure if it is in the Terminal server or my FreeBSD box. >>> >>> I can authenticate the first ppp dial up connection with no problem, but >>> when a second user dials in the modem picks up, the server prompts for usr >>> name and password then disconnects every time. I have tested each port by >>> dialing in directly and each works but when I try to dial in a second user >>> it wont let him into any port. >>> >>> If anyone can help I need it >>> >>> Mike Parks >>> Network Sciences Corporation >>> 1140 Westwood Blvd suite 208 >>> Los Angeles Ca 90025 >>> 310-208-7233 >>> >> >> > From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 12:49:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17641 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@INTRASTAR.NET [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17634 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@earthstar.net [206.136.25.130]) by intrastar.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10499; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:22:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611162022.OAA10499@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "dennis" Cc: Subject: Re: Router Purchase - the bottom line Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:46:29 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Dont take it personally...it just seems funny that anyone who > is worried about minor cooling issues would run a processor > at such a dangerous temperature. Its not a big win financially, > and seems like its not worth the risk. The irony is that people > who are spending thousands of extra dollars because they 're > worried about a hard drive failure might just be likely to pay the > extra few dollars for a Pentium with proper cooling Look at it from AMD's perspective: Sell a 5x86/160 (40mhz x 4) chip for $50, or a k5/100 for $100... Which one would you do? My 5x86/'133' running 160 run at about 85 with a small heat sink/ball bearing fan on it. the motherboard is capable of 40 MHz safely (came with a 486dx4/120 on it), and I would consider 8 months straight through running NT and FreeBSD (started with NT) without any crashes decent testing... I do keep a backup MB & CPU around, but any ISP should have some backup hardware around... JS From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 14:34:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA24441 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24430 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id OAA32342; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:37:06 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:37:05 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: kerberos To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need to set up authentication for 2 systems (one Linux and one freebsd). I had thought about NIS but it seems the word is don't use it because it's insecure. So another suggestion was to install kerberos. Can kerberos be used for that? Sorry I'm not at all familiar with it. I just need to be able to share passwd databases between Linux and freebsd, and I'm looking for a solution. If kerberos is an option, can someone steer me in the right direction on how to install/configure it? Is it very difficult? I've been able to already convert all my linux users/passwords into freebsd (using DES) and now I need to be able to authenticate users on both machines. Thanks! Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 15:01:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA26288 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26279 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id PAA32616; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:03:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:03:29 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: newbie question... To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I'm still trying to learn the subtleties of FreeBSD... I've grabbed some packages from ftp.freebsd.org (the *.tgz ones) and I'm just not sure how to install them. Is there supposed to be an install script/program for them? Thanks! Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 15:51:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA28387 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28379 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA16874 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:07:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19482 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:48:11 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: kerberos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > I just need to be able to share passwd databases between Linux and > freebsd, and I'm looking for a solution. RADIUS will work. Since the RADIUS stuff for Linux is further along than FreeBSD, run radiusd on your FreeBSD box and the radlogin stuff on Linux. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 16:20:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA29480 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from americasnet.com (ricardo@americasnet.com [207.177.143.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29474 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ricardo@localhost) by americasnet.com (8.7/8.6.12) id QAA00668; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:23:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:23:10 -0800 From: Ricardo Kleemann Subject: weird error with NFS To: FreeBSD ISP list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have a file system mounted over NFS (/home directory). Anyway, if I'm a user I can go into my home directory and make changes. However, AS ROOT I keep getting "Permission Denied"! A check on permissions reports nothing out of the ordinary. /home is owned by root.wheel However, as root I CANNOT create a directory under /home ! :( This symptom only happens due to /home being NFS-mounted (as client). The NFS server is a linux box, the client (the one reporting premission denied) is a freebsd box. The mount was performed with rw of course, and as I said, if I su to any user, go to his home directory and touch anything it works fine. It's just root! who can't do anything... Any ideas??? TIA, Ricardo From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 16:36:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA00478 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00469 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from chimp.jnx.com (chimp.jnx.com [208.197.169.246]) by red.jnx.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA14737; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tli@localhost) by chimp.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA11038; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:35:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:35:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611170035.QAA11038@chimp.jnx.com> From: Tony Li To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: dennis@etinc.com's message of 16 Nov 96 18:08:32 GMT Subject: Re: changed to: Frac T3? References: <199611161808.NAA14281@etinc.com> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cisco IOS is hacked unix also.... Sorry, no, it's not. Tony From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 17:32:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03438 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bullfrog.ecpnet.com (root@bullfrog.ecpnet.com [204.246.64.212]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03371 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raistlin@localhost) by bullfrog.ecpnet.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00196; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:31:17 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: bullfrog.ecpnet.com: raistlin owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:31:17 +0000 () From: Justen Stepka To: Ricardo Kleemann cc: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: weird error with NFS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > Hi, > > I have a file system mounted over NFS (/home directory). > Anyway, if I'm a user I can go into my home directory and make changes. > However, AS ROOT I keep getting "Permission Denied"! A check on permissions > reports nothing out of the ordinary. > > /home is owned by root.wheel > However, as root I CANNOT create a directory under /home ! :( This > symptom only happens due to /home being NFS-mounted (as client). > The NFS server is a linux box, the client (the one reporting premission > denied) is a freebsd box. The mount was performed with rw of course, and > as I said, if I su to any user, go to his home directory and touch > anything it works fine. It's just root! who can't do anything... > > Any ideas??? > > TIA, > Ricardo > no_root_sqaush will fix that ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justen Stepka | http://www.ecpnet.com/~raistlin Network Administrator | "This space for rent" raistlin@ecpnet.com | 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 18:57:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA20371 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from i-gw.dalsys.com (i-gw.dalsys.com [207.42.153.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20358 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by i-gw.dalsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA06068; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:56:47 -0600 Received: from future.dsc.dalsys.com(199.170.161.3) by i-gw.dalsys.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006066; Sat Nov 16 20:56:45 1996 Received: by future.dsc.dalsys.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/8.6.12) id AA162293; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:02:21 -0600 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:02:18 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Stanford X-Sender: richards@future.dsc.dalsys.com To: Ricardo Kleemann Cc: FreeBSD ISP list Subject: Re: weird error with NFS In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Ricardo Kleemann wrote: > I have a file system mounted over NFS (/home directory). > Anyway, if I'm a user I can go into my home directory and make changes. > However, AS ROOT I keep getting "Permission Denied"! A check on permissions > reports nothing out of the ordinary. This is a security feature to reduce the chance of someone on another box doing bad things to your NFS server. There are ways to get around it, but do you really want to? -Richard From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Nov 16 21:52:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-isp Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA28321 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from vienna.arpa.com (root@vienna.arpa.com [207.170.140.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28316 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rob@localhost) by vienna.arpa.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/Gissy/vienna3.3) id AAA12053; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:56:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611170556.AAA12053@vienna.arpa.com> Subject: Re: newbie question... In-Reply-To: from Ricardo Kleemann at "Nov 16, 96 03:03:29 pm" To: ricardo@americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:56:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Rob Misiak-Rishaw X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL26 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk tar -xzvf file.tgz -C /usr/local Ricardo Kleemann wrote ... > > Hi guys, > > I'm still trying to learn the subtleties of FreeBSD... > > I've grabbed some packages from ftp.freebsd.org (the *.tgz ones) > and I'm just not sure how to install them. Is there supposed to be an > install script/program for them? > > Thanks! > Ricardo > -- Rob Misiak - rob@arpa.com - www.arpa.com/~rob/ FF F9 39 44 3E 95 DD 1A 8E BF B1 44 21 3C 1B 8F