From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Dec 15 10:40:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA19591 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA19576 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from suntan.tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA24469 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from papillon.lemis.de by suntan.tandem.com (8.6.12/suntan5.961027) id KAA27727; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:34:38 -0800 From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id HAA00220; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 07:20:52 -0800 (PST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199612151520.HAA00220@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Mail directory permissions (was: adduser) In-Reply-To: <199612121702.RAA11206@mail.vianet.com.mx> from Maestros Asociados at "Dec 12, 96 05:08:34 pm" To: maestro@vianet.com.mx (Maestros Asociados) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 07:20:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Reply-to: grog@freebsd.org (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Maestros Asociados writes: > Hi Folks! > > When I add an user with the adduser command, the mail directory of the new > user > does not belong to her or him it belongs for example to 1656 or to > root I'm not sure which directory you're talking about. If you mean /var/mail, it should belong to bin. This is a feature, not a bug. If you're talking about ~/Mail or ~/mail, these are created by elm or pine, not by adduser. > IS THERE ANY WAY I CAN CHANGE THIS CONFIGURATION? Sure. But so far, there's no reason to think you should. How about more information? WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING? Greg From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 17 04:20:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA19733 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mirage.nlink.com.br (mirage.nlink.com.br [200.238.120.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id EAA19728 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from luiz@localhost) by mirage.nlink.com.br (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA26223; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:20:04 -0200 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:20:04 -0200 (EDT) From: Luiz de Barros To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: PPPD , SUID problems, ip-up Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear FreeBSD Experts, I am having a few problems with our PPP server machine. It is running on FreeBSD2.1.5-RELEASE. Our dial-up clients are not being able to add routes from ip-up. I can add arps but not routes. The clients have networks conected via dial-up line and we need to add routes to the machines on the network. I tryed making a login script that would run pppd and them add routes as the ppp connection is stabilished. i made a suid ( chmod 4555 ) as root.bin user to make all the work and all i got is permission denied. Is this because of security holes of suid scripts? What should i do? Luiz From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 17 04:47:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA21600 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id EAA21595 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA06503 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:44:56 GMT Message-Id: <199612171244.MAA06503@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: cyclades board To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:44:56 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to use a cyclades 16ye board with 2.1.6-RELEASE. Can anyone please tell me what the sio lines should be in the kernel config file, and what device nodes do I need to make. Please cc your response to support@cyclades.com so they can put the answers on their web site. regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 17 07:12:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA28338 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA28328 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA07958; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:12:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612171512.HAA07958@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Damian Hamill" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP), support@cyclades.com Subject: Re: cyclades board In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:44:56 GMT." <199612171244.MAA06503@axe.cablenet.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:12:08 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm trying to use a cyclades 16ye board with 2.1.6-RELEASE. Can anyone >please tell me what the sio lines should be in the kernel config file, >and what device nodes do I need to make. They are "cy" lines...like this: device cy0 at isa? tty irq 5 iomem 0xd4000 iosiz 0x2000 vector cyintr Would add support for the first 16 ports. FreeBSD 2.1.6 doesn't support the 32 port configuration or the PCI version...but an updated device driver that does support those is available. >Please cc your response to support@cyclades.com so they can put the >answers on their web site. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 17 09:13:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA06829 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@intrastar.net [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA06817 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by intrastar.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08986; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:14:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612171714.LAA08986@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "FreeBSD ISP" , "Damian Hamill" Subject: Re: cyclades board Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:12:03 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk try looking at the man page for "cy" ---------- > From: Damian Hamill > To: FreeBSD ISP > Subject: cyclades board > Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 6:44 AM > > > I'm trying to use a cyclades 16ye board with 2.1.6-RELEASE. Can anyone > please tell me what the sio lines should be in the kernel config file, > and what device nodes do I need to make. > > Please cc your response to support@cyclades.com so they can put the > answers on their web site. > > regards > damian > > -- > "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism > at Edinburgh Festival. > > Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Dec 17 17:17:06 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA06000 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from odin.egate.net (odin.egate.net [207.34.206.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA05995 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from paul-ml@localhost) by odin.egate.net (8.8.3/8.6.12) id UAA01593; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:13:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 20:13:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul Andersen (ML)" To: FreeBSD-ISP@FreeBSD.org Subject: Binding to a single address Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have several aliases for various virtual domains here. One thing I notice is that everything such as named, ftpd, telnetd, etc.. likes to bind on ALL the aliases IP's.. Is there a way to stop that so only lets say httpd binds to the virtual IP's? Paul ----------- Paul Andersen paul@egate.net System Administrator T: +1 (416) 447-8505x23 E-Gate Communications Inc. F: +1 (416) 447-6447 Toronto, Ontario P: +1 (416) 382-9316 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 18 01:15:59 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA25360 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA25328 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA09882 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:13:47 GMT Message-Id: <199612180913.JAA09882@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: cyclades term server To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:13:47 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I got my cyclades board working and started it up and at first it looked promising however I'm getting a lot of "ioctl(TIOCSETD) device not configured" error messages from pppd which then exits. It has also now stopped accepting console keyboard input although the system is still running. /etc/ppp/options file contains crtscts -detach modem system 2.1.6-RELEASE P100 16M RAM Any suggestions ? regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 18 05:58:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA07396 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA07384 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 05:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.7.6/8.7.5) id IAA16732; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:58:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612181358.IAA16732@nimbus.superior.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:58:36 -0500 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: paul-ml@odin.egate.net ("Paul Andersen (ML)") Cc: FreeBSD-ISP@freebsd.ORG Subject: Re: Binding to a single address References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Paul Andersen (ML) on Dec 17, 1996 20:13:46 -0500 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Andersen (ML) writes: > > I have several aliases for various virtual domains here. One > thing I notice is that everything such as named, ftpd, telnetd, etc.. > likes to bind on ALL the aliases IP's.. Is there a way to stop that so > only lets say httpd binds to the virtual IP's? You can't live without tcp_wrappers. It allows you to do not only what you have described, but (if you compile it with the extended configuration option) control exactly what happens when user W at site X connects to your host Y port Z. It really only works with stuff run from inetd, though it supports a library to allow programs to link with it if they run standalone (nothing really uses this). It doesn't matter much, because apache httpd has a virtualhost config, sendmail knows how to handle mail for various domains, etc. I made a small patch for ircd to allow specification of its binding address in the config file. -- Christopher Masto . . . . Superior Net Support: support@superior.net chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com On Time: The time is here, and is rapidly approaching. - William Field, Member of Parliament From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 18 06:18:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA08486 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA08479 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA10952 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:16:13 GMT Message-Id: <199612181416.OAA10952@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: cyclades term server To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:16:13 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well I don't seem to be out of the woods yet. Here's a snippet from the messages log file. Dec 18 12:49:30 piglet pppd[881]: pppd 2.1.2 started by root, uid 0 Dec 18 12:49:30 piglet pppd[881]: Connect: ppp0 <--/dev/ttyc00 Dec 18 12:49:39 piglet pppd[881]: local IP address 194.154.36.71 Dec 18 12:49:39 piglet pppd[881]: remote IP address 194.154.36.129 Dec 18 13:03:00 piglet pppd[881]: Connection terminated. Dec 18 13:06:38 piglet pppd[923]: pppd 2.1.2 started by root, uid 0 Dec 18 13:06:38 piglet pppd[923]: Connect: ppp0 <--/dev/ttyc00 Dec 18 13:06:44 piglet pppd[923]: local IP address 194.154.36.71 Dec 18 13:06:44 piglet pppd[923]: remote IP address 194.154.36.129 Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: ioctl (PPPIOCGFLAGS): Inappropriate ioctl for device Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: ioctl (PPPIOCGFLAGS): Inappropriate ioctl for device Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: ioctl(PPPIOCSASYNCMAP): Inappropriate ioctl for device Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: fcntl(F_SETFL, fdflags): Inappropriate ioctl for device Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: ioctl(TIOCSETD): Inappropriate ioctl for device Dec 18 13:08:16 piglet pppd[923]: tcsetattr: Inappropriate ioctl for device the options file reads crtscts -detach modem Should I have 'modem' in the options file for the cyclades board ? regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Dec 18 18:39:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA24478 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from terminus.galaxia.com (root@terminus.galaxia.com [204.255.210.97]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA24470 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dave@localhost) by terminus.galaxia.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA11344; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:39:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:39:34 -0500 (EST) From: "David H. Brierley" To: "Paul Andersen (ML)" cc: FreeBSD-ISP@freebsd.ORG Subject: Re: Binding to a single address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Paul Andersen (ML) wrote: > > I have several aliases for various virtual domains here. One > thing I notice is that everything such as named, ftpd, telnetd, etc.. > likes to bind on ALL the aliases IP's.. Is there a way to stop that so > only lets say httpd binds to the virtual IP's? As someone else pointed out, tcp_wrappers allows you to do this quite nicely. However, for the specific case of httpd your best bet is to install the apache server. You can then specify the bindings right in the config file. It is so easy to configure that one of my non-techie clients was able to figure it out on his own because he couldn't wait the 5 or 6 hours that it would have taken me to finish up my current task and be able to configure it for him. -- David H. Brierley, UNIX System Consultant dave@galaxia.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 07:20:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA26270 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA26261 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:20:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00930 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:17:49 GMT Message-Id: <199612191517.PAA00930@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: cyclades term server To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:17:48 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Things are improving a litle bit. I've put a 5 second timeout in the gettytab entry which seems to have improved things. I think the getty is zapping out the initial login prompt too quick for the connecting PC. I came to this conclusion because using win3.11 terminal I get the login prompt every time but using the winsock dialer we get handshaking errors. I couldn't determine from the gettytab man page what would cause a delay before the initial login prompt is written to the terminal. It would be cool to have an /etc/conf.getty file which lets you set up things like init strings and delays etc. (i.e. as per linux getty). regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 07:51:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA27534 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from inetsrv.wtrt.net (inetsrv.wtrt.net [205.231.181.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA27527 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from allenh.wtrt.net (local2.wtrt.net [205.231.181.228]) by inetsrv.wtrt.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA15729 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:52:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19961219095216.00696ed0@wtrt.net> X-Sender: allenh@wtrt.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 beta 3 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:52:16 -0600 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Allen Hyer Subject: PPP Terminal Server Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, here is what I want to do. I would like to make a FreeBSD box to be a terminal server. The only protocol I need is PPP. 1. Is the mgetty+sendfax the way to go on the software side? I have looked at this some, and it looks like it will do what I want, but before I dug in I wanted to know if this was the best software to use for my application. 2. I have another FreeBSD 2.1.5-Release Box that already has all the user accounts on it. Can I authenticate from the Terminal Server box to this machine? Thanks, Allen Hyer System Administrator West Texas Rural Telephone From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 11:13:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA05654 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA05646 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14802; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:29:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA22320; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:08:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:08:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon Reply-To: Michael Dillon To: isp-marketing@sparknet.net Subject: Re: New Telco Charges? In-Reply-To: <199612181937.NAA25356@mail.gte.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You've got it backwards Martin. *YOU* are the one who is propogating the > > ignorance by refusing to tell people publicly why they deserve the > > exemption and how to get it. I have been helping publicize this whole > > affair and I have been pulling together the information that many other > > ISP's have managed to dig up. > > Michael, where can we find this information? The FCC's Common Carrier Bureau would be a good start. A telecommunications lawyer would also be able to help if you know of one. One thing you can be sure of; it will be a total waste of time phoning your phone company until you have collected the facts on precisely how to claim this exemption. Here's what I know so far: Basically, ISP's are classified as Enhanced Service Providers by the FCC under the terms of the FCC's Computer Inquiry III also known as CI III or Computer III. ESP's are exempt from access charges. A few years back the FCC was considering removing this exemption. This was the well-known "modem tax" incident and the "tax" was the access charge that online services did not pay at that time. Some background on the ESP exemption and modem tax is available at http://www.silcom.com/~lars/editorial/telecom.html There is also some discussion here http://itu.rdg.ac.uk/misc/mailing_lists/rre/00000036.htm The FCC regulatory framework is discussed in here http://itp-www.colorado.edu/TSO/Access/S88/Open_Netwrk_mod.html Go to the library and look up 47 CFR Section 69.115(e)(4) and (e)(6) or ask your lawyer about this. As you can tell I still have not gotten a definitive statement from any ISP that they have been able to claim an exemption nor has any ISP told me of filing for the ESP exemption. I am somewhat limited in my ability to research this since I am not in the USA. I am hoping that someone in the USA will track this down further with the FCC based on the info I have been able to dig up so far. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 13:40:31 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA13342 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA13334 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA23001 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:40:43 -0800 Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA02523 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:31:11 GMT Message-Id: <199612192131.VAA02523@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: cyclades term server To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:31:11 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bummer. I've had to revert to a BSDI term server with a Digiboard because the FreeBSD/cyclades solution just wasn't getting there. Is ANYONE (successfully) using a cyclades 16Ye on FreeBSD as a term server and providing ppp to things like trumpet ? If so what getty are you using ? do your user get handshake errors do your modems auto answer or do you waitfor RING then send ATA ? what DTE speeds do you have your modems set to ? what does your gettytab entry look like ? rc.serial look like ? regards damian (knackered after a day of fighting with this thing) -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 13:56:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA14283 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA14262 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nike.efn.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA07889; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:56:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:56:26 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: jmg@nike Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Allen Hyer cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19961219095216.00696ed0@wtrt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > Ok, here is what I want to do. I would like to make a FreeBSD box to be a > terminal server. The only protocol I need is PPP. > > 1. Is the mgetty+sendfax the way to go on the software side? I have > looked at this some, and it looks like it will do what I want, but before I > dug in I wanted to know if this was the best software to use for my > application. well.. do you want JUST ppp? or ppp and logins? over here on my terminal server I run a specially modified version of mgetty+sendfax that will do authentication in mgetty instead of passing it off to a second program (if I choose)... but if you just want PPP you probably should just look at using pppd, setting your modems to autoanswer.. and point pppd to /dev/ttydxx... > 2. I have another FreeBSD 2.1.5-Release Box that already has all the > user accounts on it. Can I authenticate from the Terminal Server box to > this machine? yep... I do this to... I use NIS as it allows me to simply use the getpwent calls to recieve accounts... I have also modified pppd to do authentication based on a user passed to it... or on the user that the other side wants to use... ttyl... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 14:02:39 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA14771 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from inetsrv.wtrt.net (inetsrv.wtrt.net [205.231.181.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA14762 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from allenh.wtrt.net (local2.wtrt.net [205.231.181.228]) by inetsrv.wtrt.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA18856; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:03:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19961219160310.00687574@wtrt.net> X-Sender: allenh@wtrt.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 beta 3 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:03:10 -0600 To: John-Mark Gurney From: Allen Hyer Subject: Re: PPP Terminal Server Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:56 PM 12/19/96 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > >> Ok, here is what I want to do. I would like to make a FreeBSD box to be a >> terminal server. The only protocol I need is PPP. >> >> 1. Is the mgetty+sendfax the way to go on the software side? I have >> looked at this some, and it looks like it will do what I want, but before I >> dug in I wanted to know if this was the best software to use for my >> application. > >well.. do you want JUST ppp? or ppp and logins? over here on my terminal >server I run a specially modified version of mgetty+sendfax that will do >authentication in mgetty instead of passing it off to a second program (if >I choose)... but if you just want PPP you probably should just look at >using pppd, setting your modems to autoanswer.. and point pppd to >/dev/ttydxx... > Yes, all I want is PPP, but I failed to mention in my previous post that I want to use PAP authentication, and use the user accounts on the other machine for the lookup. Can I do this with what you describe above? Allen Hyer System Administrator West Texas Rural Telephone From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 14:17:13 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA15691 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from industry.idirect.com (root@industry.idirect.com [205.206.21.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA15685 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from industry.idirect.com (jlixfeld@industry.idirect.com [205.206.21.8]) by industry.idirect.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA29228; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:24:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:24:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Lixfeld To: Damian Hamill cc: FreeBSD ISP Subject: Re: cyclades term server In-Reply-To: <199612192131.VAA02523@axe.cablenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here, we are using Cyclades 32's on BSD/OS term servers, with Auto Answer. That's about all I can tell you! Regards, Jason A. Lixfeld -=- IDBS Administration System Administrator Client Services Representative Systems Liason -=- Internet Direct o/a ComputerLink Online Inc. 5415 Dundas Street West Suite 301 Etobicoke, ON M9B 1B5 CANADA [416] 233.7150 {V} [416] 233.6970 {F} -=- carrera@idirect.com On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Damian Hamill wrote: > Bummer. I've had to revert to a BSDI term server with a Digiboard > because the FreeBSD/cyclades solution just wasn't getting there. > > Is ANYONE (successfully) using a cyclades 16Ye on FreeBSD as a term > server and providing ppp to things like trumpet ? > > If so what > getty are you using ? > do your user get handshake errors > do your modems auto answer or do you waitfor RING then send ATA ? > what DTE speeds do you have your modems set to ? > what does your > gettytab entry look like ? > rc.serial look like ? > > regards > damian (knackered after a day of fighting with this thing) > > -- > "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism > at Edinburgh Festival. > > Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 14:44:33 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA17525 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA17506 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nike.efn.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA08032; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:44:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: jmg@nike Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Allen Hyer cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19961219160310.00687574@wtrt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > At 01:56 PM 12/19/96 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > >On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > > > >> Ok, here is what I want to do. I would like to make a FreeBSD box to be a > >> terminal server. The only protocol I need is PPP. > >> > >> 1. Is the mgetty+sendfax the way to go on the software side? I have > >> looked at this some, and it looks like it will do what I want, but before I > >> dug in I wanted to know if this was the best software to use for my > >> application. > > > >well.. do you want JUST ppp? or ppp and logins? over here on my terminal > >server I run a specially modified version of mgetty+sendfax that will do > >authentication in mgetty instead of passing it off to a second program (if > >I choose)... but if you just want PPP you probably should just look at > >using pppd, setting your modems to autoanswer.. and point pppd to > >/dev/ttydxx... > > > > Yes, all I want is PPP, but I failed to mention in my previous post that I > want to use PAP authentication, and use the user accounts on the other > machine for the lookup. Can I do this with what you describe above? the above (with stock pppd) requires that you have a list of users/passwords for pppd to work... but I have modifications that allow you to do what you want... if your interested in the patches I will send them to you... they include another feature that I'm thinking about removing (netroute)... I also added the feature that will only do PPP to users that have a P in their class field... not sure if this will be useful to you or not... but I thought I should mention it... ttyl.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 14:59:16 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA18251 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA18239 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA06288; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:00:56 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:00:56 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Allen Hyer cc: John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PPP Terminal Server In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19961219160310.00687574@wtrt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > At 01:56 PM 12/19/96 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > >On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Allen Hyer wrote: > > > >> Ok, here is what I want to do. I would like to make a FreeBSD box to be a > >> terminal server. The only protocol I need is PPP. > > Yes, all I want is PPP, but I failed to mention in my previous post that I > want to use PAP authentication, and use the user accounts on the other > machine for the lookup. Can I do this with what you describe above? You can use mgetty, or use Joe Greco's getty. Both will present a login: prompt, and if they receive PPP LCP startup info, exec pppd with appropriate flags to do authentication using the pw file. You need the latest pppd and getty. The advantage in doing it this way is that you can dial in to the machine as a normal user if you need to, e.g. to do maintenance when you are at a friend's place and they only have a 2400 modem with an XT :-) If you had to run PPP and had no PPP software, you'd be stuck. You can find Joe's stuff by searching the archives of hackers with the keywords "auto and getty and ppp and greco". Or, I can package the replacement binaries etc which you need. I run getty, not mgetty, I could not figure out how to configure mgetty. Are you running 2.1.5/6 or 2.2? Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 15:18:20 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA19283 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (obiwan.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA19277 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from togs.puter.at.TerraNova.net (coolholio@togs.puter.at.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.130]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08398; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:18:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32B9CC6D.4AA5@terranova.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:14:53 -0500 From: Travis Mikalson Reply-To: bofh@obiwan.terranova.net Organization: TerraNovaNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damian Hamill CC: FreeBSD ISP Subject: Re: cyclades term server References: <199612192131.VAA02523@axe.cablenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Damian Hamill wrote: > > Bummer. I've had to revert to a BSDI term server with a Digiboard > because the FreeBSD/cyclades solution just wasn't getting there. How expensive. > > Is ANYONE (successfully) using a cyclades 16Ye on FreeBSD as a term > server and providing ppp to things like trumpet ? I'm using a Cyclades 8Yo (not any different to FreeBSD driver-wise) and FreeBSD... Joe Greco's wonderful pppgetty does the trick quite nicely, and if I'm not mistaken the changes he hacked into pppgetty have been committed to the current source tree. Works flawlessly with Trumpet Winsock (using PAP), ShivaPPP, Win95, etc. > > If so what > getty are you using ? Joe Greco's pppgetty as stated above. > do your user get handshake errors Nope. > do your modems auto answer or do you waitfor RING then send ATA ? My modems are set to auto-answer. > what DTE speeds do you have your modems set to ? They're locked at 115200. > what does your > gettytab entry look like ? # pppgetty std.115200|115200-baud:\ :np:sp#115200: ppp.115200|115200-baud:\ :np:sp#115200:pp=/etc/ppp/paplogin.sh: > rc.serial look like ? I don't use it. > > regards > damian (knackered after a day of fighting with this thing) Keep on keepin' on Travis -- -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Inc. - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Ocean, n.: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man -- who has no gills. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 16:25:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA22722 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA22715 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA18888; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:42:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25267; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:21:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:21:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp-marketing@sparknet.net Subject: Re: New Telco Charges? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > Go to the library and look up 47 CFR Section 69.115(e)(4) and (e)(6) > or ask your lawyer about this. > I am somewhat limited in my ability to > research this since I am not in the USA. Thanks to Jessica at blarg.net here is 47 CFR Section 69.115 -HEAD- Sec. 69.115 Special access surcharges. -TEXT- (a) Pending the development of techniques accurately to measure usage of exchange facilities that are interconnected by users with means of interstate or foreign telecommunications, a surcharge that is expressed in dollars and cents per line termination per month shall be assessed upon users that subscribe to private line services or WATS services that are not exempt from assessment pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section. (b) Such surcharge shall be computed to reflect a reasonable approximation of the carrier usage charges which, assuming non-premium interconnection, would have been paid for average interstate or foreign usage of common lines, end office facilities, and transport facilities, attributable to each Special Access line termination which is not exempt from assessment pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section. (c) If the association, carrier or carriers that file the tariff are unable to estimate such average usage for a period ending May 31, 1985, the surcharge for such period shall be twenty-five dollars ($25) per line termination per month. (d) A telephone company may propose reasonable and nondiscriminatory end user surcharges, to be filed in its federal access tariffs and to be applied to the use of exchange facilities which are interconected by users with means of interstate or foreign telecommunication which are not provided by the telephone company, and which are not exempt from assessment pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section. Telephone companies which wish to avail themselves of this option must undertake to use reasonable efforts to identify such means of interstate or foreign telecommunication, and to assess end user surcharges in a reasonable and nondiscriminatory manner. (e) No special access surcharges shall be assessed for any of the following terminations: (1) The open end termination in a telephone company switch of an FX line, including CCSA and CCSA-equivalent ONALs; (2) Any termination of an analog channel that is used for radio or television program transmission; (3) Any termination of a line that is used for telex service; (4) Any termination of a line that by nature of its operating characteristics could not make use of common lines; and (5) Any termination of a line that is subject to carrier usage charges pursuant to Sec. 69.5. (6) Any termination of a line that the customer certifies to the exchange carrier is not connected to a PBX or other device capable of interconnecting a local exchange subscriber line with the private line or WATS access line. (47 U.S.C. 154 (i) and (j), 201, 202, 203, 205, 218 and 403 and 5 U.S.C. 553) (48 FR 43019, Sept. 21, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 7829, Mar. 2, 1984; 51 FR 10841, Mar. 31, 1986; 52 FR 8259, Mar. 17, 1987) Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 19:57:36 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA03889 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA03864 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA21433; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:14:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27035; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:53:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:53:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon Reply-To: Michael Dillon To: isp-marketing@sparknet.net Subject: Re: New Telco Charges? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Deb Howard wrote: > >Thanks to Jessica at blarg.net here is 47 CFR Section 69.115 > > > > > Hey Jessica or anyone else -- what about the Enhanced Service Provider > ("ESP") exemption of 47 C.F.R. 64.702 -- can you get your hands on this > CFR > too? That according to the CIX is the one that speaks to the online/ISP > exemption from the SLC -- -HEAD- Sec. 64.702 Furnishing of enhanced services and customer-premises equipment. -TEXT- (a) For the purpose of this subpart, the term 'enhanced service' shall refer to services, offered over common carrier transmission facilities used in interstate communications, which employ computer processing applications that act on the format, content, code, protocol or similar aspects of the subscriber's transmitted information; provide the subscriber additional, different, or restructured information; or involve subscriber interaction with stored information. Enhanced services are not regulated under Title II of the Act. (b) Communications common carriers subject, in whole or in part, to the Communications Act may directly provide enhanced services and customer-premises equipment; provided, however, that the Commission may prohibit any such common carrier from engaging directly or indirectly in furnishing enhanced services or customer-premises equipment to others except as provided for in paragraph (c) of this section, or as otherwise authorized by the Commission. (c) A communications common carrier prohibited by the Commission pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section from engaging in the furnishing of enhanced services or customer-premises equipment may, subject to other provisions of law, have a controlling or lesser interest in, or be under common control with, a separate corporate entity that furnishes enhanced services or customer-premises equipment to others provided the following conditions are met: (1) Each such separate corporation shall obtain all transmission facilities necessary for the provision of enhanced services pursuant to tariff, and may not own any network or local distribution transmission facilities or equipment. (2) Each such separate corporation shall operate independently in the furnishing of enhanced services and customer-premises equipment. It shall maintain its own books of account, have separate officers, utilize separate operating, marketing, installation, and maintenance personnel, and utilize separate computer facilities in the provision of enhanced services. (3) Each such separate corporation which provides customer-premises equipment or enhanced services shall deal with any affiliated manufacturing entity only on an arm's length basis. (4) Any research or development performed on a joint or separate basis for the subsidiary must be done on a compensatory basis. Except for generic software within equipment, manufactured by an affiliate, that is sold 'off the shelf' to any interested purchaser, the separate corporation must develop its own software, or contract with non-affiliated vendors. (5) All transactions between the separate corporation and the carrier or its affiliates which involve the transfer, either direct or by accounting or other record entries, of money, personnel, resources, other assets or anything of value, shall be reduced to writing. A copy of any contract, agreement, or other arrangement entered into between such entities shall be filed with the Commission within 30 days after the contract, agreement, or other arrangement is made. This provision shall not apply to any transaction governed by the provision of an effective state or federal tariff. (d) A carrier subject to the proscription set forth in paragraph (c) of this section: (1) Shall not engage in the sale or promotion of enhanced services or customer-premises equipment, on behalf of the separate corporation, or sell, lease or otherwise make available to the separate corporation any capacity or computer system component on its computer system or systems which are used in any way for the provision of its common carrier communications services. (This does not apply to communications services offered the separate subsidiary pursuant to tariff); (2) Shall disclose to the public all information relating to network design and technical standards and information affecting changes to the telecommunications network which would affect either intercarrier interconnection or the manner in which customer-premises equipment is attached to the interstate network prior to implementation and with reasonable advance notification. When such information is disclosed to the separate corporation it shall be disclosed and be available to any member of the public on the same terms and conditions; (3) May not provide to any such separate corporation any customer proprietary information unless such information is available to any member of the public on the same terms and conditions; and (4) Must obtain Commission approval as to the manner in which the separate corporation is to be capitalized, prior to obtaining any interest in the separate corporation or transferring any assets, and must obtain Commission approval of any modification to a Commission approved capitalization plan. (e) Except as otherwise ordered by the Commission, after March 1, 1982, the carrier provision of customer-premises equipment used in conjunction with the interstate telecommunications network shall be separate and distinct from provision of common carrier communications services and not offered on a tariffed basis. (Secs. 4, 201-205, 403, 404, 410; 48 Stat., as amended, 1066, 1070-1072, 1094, 1098; (47 U.S.C. 154, 201-205, 403, 404, 410)) (45 FR 31364, May 13, 1980, as amended at 46 FR 6008, Jan. 21, 1981) Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 20:24:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA04839 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@intrastar.net [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA04834 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:24:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by intrastar.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24072 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:27:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612200427.WAA24072@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: Subject: attachment via pop using qpop problems Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:22:29 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We're using qpop 'popper' to deliver pop3 services for our customers. Some have recently had problems with both Netscape and IE3 mail not being able to download (timing out) on large file attachments. On our LAN, I have sent myself multi-megabyte files via mail and had NO problems recieving them with both Netscape 3.01 and IE3 for Windows95. We're using qpop-2.2 on a 2.1.5-release system running Sendmail 8.8.4. Our clients connect either through a Portmaster (on the same physical ethernet network), or localhost via Cyclades 8Yo - all users using either Win95 or Win 3.1 and PPP (most with an MTU of 1500) I'm not married to qpop, is there another option (preferibly something that doesn't use inetd but isn't a pain)... ttyl JS --- Intrastellar Internet Service - Houston County, Texas Voice: (409) 687-9066 Web: http://www.intrastar.net/ "And Jacob Plows, Fool!" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Dec 19 21:44:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA06506 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA06500 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:44:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA22428; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:44:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:44:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199612200544.WAA22428@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: "Jacob Suter" Cc: Subject: Re: attachment via pop using qpop problems In-Reply-To: <199612200427.WAA24072@intrastar.net> References: <199612200427.WAA24072@intrastar.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We're using qpop 'popper' to deliver pop3 services for our customers. Some > have recently had problems with both Netscape and IE3 mail not being able > to download (timing out) on large file attachments. On our LAN, I have > sent myself multi-megabyte files via mail and had NO problems recieving > them with both Netscape 3.01 and IE3 for Windows95. Boy, we've had nothing but good luck with the same setup locally. The clients are connecting over modems using Netscape and Eudora, but I've never had any sorts of losses or timeouts that weren't due to crappy lines, and qpop does a very good job of making sure email doesn't get lost in that case. I'm running qpop-2.2 on a 2.1.6.1 system w/sendmail 8.8.4, so it sounds very similar to your setup. My boss even runs it over the internet when he's in Menlo Park, which is *much* worse than any modem with timeouts & drops. Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 01:14:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA12969 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from serv1.zsb.th-darmstadt.de (server.zsb.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA12937; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (petzi@localhost) by serv1.zsb.th-darmstadt.de (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA14349; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:12:53 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:12:51 +0100 (MET) From: Michael Beckmann X-Sender: petzi@serv1.zsb.th-darmstadt.de Reply-To: Michael Beckmann To: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: innd can't remalloc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, my innd dies almost every day, and in the log I see messages like: Dec 20 08:52:37 news innd: SERVER cant remalloc 2097408 bytes Cannot allocate memory This is always the last message from innd, until I restart rc.news . I am running 2.1.5-RELEASE on this machine, and the problem is the same with inn 1.4 and 1.5.1. It seems to me that the crash occurs when the innd process grows to around 128 MB. I assume I am running into some kernel limitation, something like: "no process may have more than 128 MB RAM resident", but I cannot see any setting for that. Could anyone help me out ? I have already tried increasing some limits with ulimit statements at the beginning of rc.news, but this problem didn't go away. Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 01:49:53 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA14101 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@intrastar.net [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA14095 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 01:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by intrastar.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA24824; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:53:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612200953.DAA24824@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Nate Williams" Cc: Subject: cyclades data loss? (was: Re: attachment via pop using qpop problems) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:48:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We're using qpop 'popper' to deliver pop3 services for our customers. Some > > have recently had problems with both Netscape and IE3 mail not being able > > to download (timing out) on large file attachments. On our LAN, I have > > sent myself multi-megabyte files via mail and had NO problems recieving > > them with both Netscape 3.01 and IE3 for Windows95. > > Boy, we've had nothing but good luck with the same setup locally. The > clients are connecting over modems using Netscape and Eudora, but I've > never had any sorts of losses or timeouts that weren't due to crappy > lines, and qpop does a very good job of making sure email doesn't get > lost in that case. Well guys, I think I found the problem... After doing some stuff on my shell account (via 2400 from a friend's house) I think I can say I am losing data somewhere... I've found in the past that the Cyclades card apparently likes 57.6k a lot more than 115.2k (I don't think its the Cardinal 28.8ks, since I do not have this problem dialing through my portmaster, and all lines on it are at 115.2k using the same exact modems (even tried a swap tonight). I don't get many errors with ppp... probably because its only moving data at 576 bytes+headers without an ack... > I'm running qpop-2.2 on a 2.1.6.1 system w/sendmail 8.8.4, so it sounds > very similar to your setup. I've pondered upgrading just for the syn protection... :) > My boss even runs it over the internet when he's in Menlo Park, which is > *much* worse than any modem with timeouts & drops. Our lines here are consistantly bad, low fidelity, not noisy, so people connect at around 26.4k as a max, usually 24.0k and stay that way... I haven't seen any connection problems with the people in question (and I was getting no line noise on the 2400 that I could tell, just plain data loss). So, what can I do about this? I am using the Cardinal MVP288XF2 on these lines, with a Cyclades 8Yo card (the non-expandable w/ proper model signaling). I guess I could go down to say, 38.4k and make everyone slow down a bit :) anyone else seen this problem? TTYL JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 06:03:32 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA21002 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from revelstone.jvm.com (revelstone.jvm.com [207.98.213.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA20997 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from fbsdlist@localhost) by revelstone.jvm.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA14995; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:03:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:03:24 -0500 (EST) From: Cliff Addy To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: UUNET vs Netcom Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We need some fast input on any experience of uunet vs netcom. We need to install a t-1 to our office. There is a vast difference in monthly cost ($2200 vs 1200) in these two. Obviously, anything *they* say in terms of uptime, loads, support, etc, wil be glowing. Do any of the ISPs here have any input on these issues? Is there another provider we should be looking at. The rush is on because if we go with uunet, we need to beat a monday deadline on an end-of-year special they're running. Thanks so much for any input you can provide :) Cliff From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 07:40:27 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA23868 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from irvine.americasnet.com (ricardo@irvine.americasnet.com [208.145.128.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA23863 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ricardo@localhost) by irvine.americasnet.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06255; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:38:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: Ricardo Kleemann To: Cliff Addy cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One thing about netcom... They don't like to supply other ISPs. I've called before, and they asked if I was to provide access to others. When I answered yes, the guy said they don't provide access to "competitors". Which I think is a bunch of B.S. If anyone out there has a different answer from netcom, let me know. That's just what I was told by one of their reps. Ricardo On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Cliff Addy wrote: > We need some fast input on any experience of uunet vs netcom. We need to > install a t-1 to our office. There is a vast difference in monthly cost > ($2200 vs 1200) in these two. Obviously, anything *they* say in terms of > uptime, loads, support, etc, wil be glowing. Do any of the ISPs here have > any input on these issues? Is there another provider we should be looking > at. The rush is on because if we go with uunet, we need to beat a monday > deadline on an end-of-year special they're running. > > Thanks so much for any input you can provide :) > > Cliff > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 08:10:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA24958 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from kirk.nrv.net (kirk.nrv.net [206.99.236.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA24953 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from abyss (pitlord@port-17.server3.nrv.net [206.99.236.131]) by kirk.nrv.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22564 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:10:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32BABD81.7D9E@nrv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:23:30 -0500 From: Troy Settle Reply-To: pitlord@nrv.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: New game in town Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey all, I've been following this list for several months now, and have a few questions for which I need answers/opinions We're a new ISP, hoping to be online by January 1. Our network configuration looks as follows: T1 (don't even ask about the source... we'll be moving to uunet or something when we outgrow a single T1) Kentrox CSU/DSU Cisco 2501 Ascend Max 4004 Terminal server 6x86/166+, HX 430 chipset (tritan II), 64MB Ram, 4-5gig IDE storage (will move to SCSI as we grow) To keep starup costs down, we've elected to use the IDE drives. We plan to keep a close eye on system/network resources, and stay on top of potential problems. We're also planning on using either a 386/25 or 486/33 to run an authentication server and name server, leaving the main server for mail, web, ftp, and other services (no news for now, thank God). We're also thinking of throwing together a decent 486 system to use as a user shell/web server, allowing almost full development access to our subscribers, including cgi. This will be done under the premis that we will not guarantee security on this system (it will be isolated from the other servers for obvious security reasons) Ok, with the network pretty much laid out, any comments? Would it be wise to use samba to allow subscribers to mount their home directories from their own machine? How would I go about setting up the /home filesystem so that I could mount additional media as we gain users? Thanks in advance for your input, Troy From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 08:46:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA26628 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from hobbes.crc.com (hobbes.crc.com [192.251.235.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA26617 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kafka.hqs.crc.com by hobbes.crc.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vb899-0003AoC; Fri, 20 Dec 96 11:50 EST Received: from pelican.hqs.crc.com (pelican.hqs.crc.com [192.146.211.52]) by kafka.hqs.crc.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05851; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:44:19 GMT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961220164608.00668434@kafka.hqs.crc.com> X-Sender: dpb@kafka.hqs.crc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:46:08 -0500 To: pitlord@nrv.net From: Dan Benjamin Subject: Re: New game in town Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >To keep starup costs down, we've elected to use the IDE drives. We >plan to keep a close eye on system/network resources, and stay on top >of potential problems. I'd reconsider. You may save yourself a couple hundred dollars to start out with, but how much will you loose when you loose your customers to competition because *their* servers are still running? Yes, it makes that much difference. >We're also planning on using either a 386/25 or 486/33 to run an >authentication server and name server, leaving the main server for >mail, web, ftp, and other services (no news for now, thank God). I'd go with the 486, and get plenty of memory and HD space - don't be fooled into thinking that running DNS for only 1 domain is an easy task. Just remember each time a user connects *anywhere* they will ask your 486 to resolve its IP. >We're also thinking of throwing together a decent 486 system to use >as a user shell/web server, allowing almost full development access Make that a Pentium with sizeable memory and swap. >Would it be wise to use samba to allow subscribers to mount their >home directories from their own machine? It would be very unwise. >How would I go about setting up the /home filesystem so that I >could mount additional media as we gain users? Home should be a mount point for one of your drives, which you can divide up however you might want - a constant source for debate. I wont enter it. Good luck. ============================================== Dan Benjamin dpb@kafka.hqs.crc.com Office (407) 244-3700 x1017 Pager (407) 980-8239 ============================================== Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 09:02:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA27572 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA27561 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA19889 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:04:08 GMT Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa28890; 20 Dec 96 12:11 EST Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:11:33 -0500 (EST) From: Steve To: Cliff Addy cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We left UUNET for sprint. UUNET had much better customer service, but with sprint we rarily need any customer service whereas with UUNET we did (they dropped alot etc) On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Cliff Addy wrote: > We need some fast input on any experience of uunet vs netcom. We need to > install a t-1 to our office. There is a vast difference in monthly cost > ($2200 vs 1200) in these two. Obviously, anything *they* say in terms of > uptime, loads, support, etc, wil be glowing. Do any of the ISPs here have > any input on these issues? Is there another provider we should be looking > at. The rush is on because if we go with uunet, we need to beat a monday > deadline on an end-of-year special they're running. > > Thanks so much for any input you can provide :) > > Cliff > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 09:06:54 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA27869 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA27791 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.cablenet.net by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vb8Nt-0008u6C; Fri, 20 Dec 96 09:05 PST Received: (from damian@localhost) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA05634 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:57:51 GMT Message-Id: <199612201657.QAA05634@axe.cablenet.net> Subject: getty login prompt delay To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org (FreeBSD ISP) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:57:51 +0000 (GMT) From: "Damian Hamill" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm convinced that the reason why I am still getting handshake errors is that upon connection getty is firing off the login prompt before the winsock is ready for it and it's getting lost. How do I make getty delay a while before issueing the login prompt or where are the sources so I can patch getty if it doesn't support this feature ? regards damian -- "There's plenty of rainforest" - A person selling Living Marxism at Edinburgh Festival. Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 09:51:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA29829 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA29810; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id SAA13139; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:51:16 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA17545; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:51:15 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA04883; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:42:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612201742.SAA04883@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: innd can't remalloc To: petzi@apfel.de Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:42:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Michael Beckmann at "Dec 20, 96 10:12:51 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Beckmann wrote: > Dec 20 08:52:37 news innd: SERVER cant remalloc 2097408 bytes Cannot > allocate memory > It seems to me that the crash occurs when the innd process grows to around > 128 MB. j@uriah 107% limit -h cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize 131072 kbytes ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ stacksize 65536 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited memoryuse unlimited descriptors unlimited memorylocked 29680 kbytes maxproc 339 You can override this using: options "MAXDSIZ='(256UL*1024*1024)'" (For 2.2 systems, leave out the '' quotes. Should be converted to an official option.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 10:35:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01928 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from intrastar.net (root@intrastar.net [206.136.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA01906 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by intrastar.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA26484; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:38:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199612201838.MAA26484@intrastar.net> From: "Jacob Suter" To: "Cliff Addy" , Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:33:10 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Cliff Addy > To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > Subject: UUNET vs Netcom > Date: Friday, December 20, 1996 8:03 AM > > We need some fast input on any experience of uunet vs netcom. We need to > install a t-1 to our office. There is a vast difference in monthly cost > ($2200 vs 1200) in these two. Obviously, anything *they* say in terms of > uptime, loads, support, etc, wil be glowing. Do any of the ISPs here have > any input on these issues? Is there another provider we should be looking > at. The rush is on because if we go with uunet, we need to beat a monday > deadline on an end-of-year special they're running. UUNet all the way.... NetScum is NetScum... JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 16:18:37 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA16680 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from abacus.tioga.com (root@abacus.tioga.com [205.146.65.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA16672; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from riffraff.tioga.net (tbalfe@riffraff.tioga.net [205.146.65.11]) by abacus.tioga.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12375; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:45:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961221001827.006879a4@email.tioga.com> X-Sender: tbalfe@email.tioga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:27 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Thomas J Balfe Subject: FreeBSD Oriented Music Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Seasons Greetings, As 1997 gets ready to shove off and FreeBSD gets ready to head into another fresh year, I thought it would be fitting to throw together some midi music to usher in the new year. With hits like "FreeBSD 1997", "The Gary Palmer", "Jordan Hubbard Ballad" and others that I made for friends on irc, it's a lot of fun. You can check them out on my ftp server: ftp://ftp.tioga.com/pub/staff/tbalfe/MIDI/ Regards, Tom ======================================================================== Thomas J Balfe tbalfe@tioga.net President http://www.tioga.net/ Tioga Communications, Inc 814-861-2100 ======================================================================== "Humanity has been compared...to a sleeper who handles matches in his sleep and wakes to find himself in flames." - H.G. Wells The World Set Free 1914 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 16:59:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA18146 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA18141 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA03435; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:15:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA09931; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:55:07 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:55:06 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Dillon To: isp-marketing@sparknet.net Subject: ISP's will get *NO* refunds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It now appear that the whole issue of ISP exemption from FCC Subscriber Line Charges is wrong, wrong, wrong. As I mentioned a month or so ago it appears that the people who have promoted this idea were getting the Network Access Charges (around two cents per minute) confused with the Subscriber Line Charge of $6 per line per month. ISP's are considered Enhanced Service Providers by the FCC and are thus exempt from the NAC but are explicitly required to pay the SLC. Period, end of story. In researching this whole issue I have discovered, via the ISP's who assisted me, that most telco people just don't have a clue about these charges and how or why the NAC is different from the SLC. At one point I expressed the opinion that the only known ISP to get a refund may have bamboozled their local telco into refunding money that they shouldn't have. Anyway, this whole thing started with some public statements by an organization called IDEA followed by a SPAM to all ISP's from IDEA. The evidence so far available publicly makes it appear that IDEA is lying about ever having collected telco refunds. And even if they did manage to bamboozle money out of the telco they did not deserve the refund and will have to pay it back. Here is what someone else discovered when they dug into IDEA and in particular note what Bell Atlantic said about refunds to Imagixx. >It may interest you to know that Shannon Hamra of LDD Net, who is >active with the AOP Internet Service Provider and Marketing SIGs (you >may have met her at the AOP conference last October), took the time to >contact IDEA and pursue them on this issue. Here's what she found: > >1) Though its name includes the word "Association," IDEA is a >for-profit corporation rather than a non-profit trade or professional >association. Their motivation is profit for themselves, not the good >of the industry or the defense of ISPs. > >2) When pressed, IDEA admitted that they have never actually >collected any money for any ISP. They do claim to have recovered such >moneys for themselves, though Bell Atlantic has no record of such a >refund. At various times, IDEA has made claims to have recovered >money from Pac Bell and others, but is able to offer no substantiation >of these claims. > >3) When pressed for details of the alleged overcharges, IDEA sent >Hamra to the CIX web site. The document she was instructed to read >was, in fact, a draft white paper in response to the Clinton >Administration's GII (Global Information Infrastructure)/NII (National >Information Infrastructure) policy draft from last year. It only >encourages the White House to seek a continuation of existing >exemptions from per-minute access charges. IDEA also sent her to the >web site of the National Exchange Carrier Association, though that >site has nothing helpful to offer. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 17:24:50 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18956 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA18951; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA25716; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:42 -0800 (PST) To: Thomas J Balfe cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Oriented Music In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:27 EST." <1.5.4.32.19961221001827.006879a4@email.tioga.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:24:42 -0800 Message-ID: <25713.851131482@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As 1997 gets ready to shove off and FreeBSD gets ready to head into another > fresh year, I thought it would be fitting to throw together some midi music > to usher in the new year. With hits like "FreeBSD 1997", "The Gary Palmer", "The Gary Palmer?" Oh dear. The office christmas parties have obviously started, and people are evidently drinking more than ever this year. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Dec 20 17:41:17 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA19671 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:41:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from thecore.com (guardian.thecore.com [206.136.149.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA19664 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sfinn@localhost) by thecore.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA21253; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:40:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:40:56 -0500 (EST) From: Shaun Finn To: Michael Dillon cc: isp-marketing@sparknet.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISP's will get *NO* refunds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Michael Dillon wrote: > It now appear that the whole issue of ISP exemption from FCC Subscriber > Line Charges is wrong, wrong, wrong. As I mentioned a month or so ago it > appears that the people who have promoted this idea were getting the > Network Access Charges (around two cents per minute) confused with the > Subscriber Line Charge of $6 per line per month. ISP's are considered > Enhanced Service Providers by the FCC and are thus exempt from the > NAC but are explicitly required to pay the SLC. Period, end of story. I found the same to be true in my own investigation. I talked to a Kevin Werbach in the Plans & Policies Bureau of the FCC just this week on this very subject. He corroborates everything you say about the confusion over NAC vs. SLC. He even said they are aware of the misleading Email making its rounds on the Internet. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Shaun M. Finn TechnoCore Communications, Inc. | | sfinn@thecore.com P.O. Box 106 | | (908)928-7400 FAX:(908)928-7402 Jackson, NJ 08527-0106 | +------------------- http://www.thecore.com/ ----------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 09:52:43 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA18234 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA18229 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vbVaD-0008tjC; Sat, 21 Dec 96 09:51 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:51:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: fbsdlist@revelstone.jvm.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Steve" at Dec 20, 96 12:11:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We left UUNET for sprint. UUNET had much better customer service, but > with sprint we rarily need any customer service whereas with UUNET we did > (they dropped alot etc) On the other hand, Sprint seems to have a lot of routing problems... -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 10:25:48 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA20309 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (root@buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA20304 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA27499 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:27:34 GMT Received: from buffnet7.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa11374; 21 Dec 96 13:35 EST Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:34:54 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Hovey To: Alan Batie cc: fbsdlist@revelstone.jvm.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Alan Batie wrote: > > We left UUNET for sprint. UUNET had much better customer service, but > > with sprint we rarily need any customer service whereas with UUNET we did > > (they dropped alot etc) > > On the other hand, Sprint seems to have a lot of routing problems... I dont agree. Sprint is often blamed for routing problems, but most problems, when tracerouted etc were at MAE points. And places like ftp.cdrom.com no long route thru them etc. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 10:45:03 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21538 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA21533 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vbWPl-0008tXC; Sat, 21 Dec 96 10:44 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom To: shovey@buffnet.net (Stephen Hovey) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:44:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: fbsdlist@revelstone.jvm.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Hovey" at Dec 21, 96 01:34:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I dont agree. Sprint is often blamed for routing problems, but most > problems, when tracerouted etc were at MAE points. I think they're improving, but I'll leave it at that... -- Alan Batie ______ batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / Assimilate this! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Worf, First Contact DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 13:23:05 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA01124 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from eternal.dusk.net (root@eternal.dusk.net [207.219.16.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01094 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from expert@localhost) by eternal.dusk.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01267 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:21:06 -0400 (AST) From: Christian Hochhold Message-Id: <199612212121.RAA01267@eternal.dusk.net> Subject: Bandwidth.. To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:21:06 -0400 (AST) X-URL: http://www.dusk.net & http://www.vampires.net X-Moto: Live for today and let the future take care of itself X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello folks, Just a quick question... How many Virtual Domains can a P133 with 64M RAM host on a 128K ISDN, comfortably? Thank you in advance, Christian From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 13:36:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA02713 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.zsb.th-darmstadt.de (server.zsb.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA02688; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (petzi@localhost) by server.zsb.th-darmstadt.de (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id WAA01456; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:35:36 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:35:35 +0100 (MET) From: Michael Beckmann X-Sender: petzi@server.zsb.th-darmstadt.de To: Joerg Wunsch cc: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: innd can't remalloc In-Reply-To: <199612201742.SAA04883@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > datasize 131072 kbytes > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > You can override this using: > > options "MAXDSIZ='(256UL*1024*1024)'" > > (For 2.2 systems, leave out the '' quotes. Should be converted to an > official option.) It works !! Thank you. Next thing I'm going to upgrade to FreeBSD 2.2, to get the better malloc and some other enhancements from it. The innd doesn't have to be that large. I tried linking my inn with -lgnumalloc , but it was a desaster. Ever seen a sysload of 20 on a FreeBSD box ? I couldn't believe my eyes. 2.2-ALPHA performs very well on my other newsserver, no crashes or problems since I installed it three weeks ago. Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 13:55:19 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA03278 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from eternal.dusk.net (root@eternal.dusk.net [207.219.16.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA03273 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from expert@localhost) by eternal.dusk.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01376 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:53:27 -0400 (AST) From: Christian Hochhold Message-Id: <199612212153.RAA01376@eternal.dusk.net> Subject: Bandwith.. more specific To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:53:27 -0400 (AST) X-URL: http://www.dusk.net & http://www.vampires.net X-Moto: Live for today and let the future take care of itself X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello again =) Sorry about being so vague in my question, I'll elaborate. A P133, 64M of ram on a 128K ISDN; hosting a small business/company that may average 200 - 400 hits a day at the most. Assuming that business gets, as the avg. 300 hits a day, how many hits/virtual domains can an ISDN sustain? The ISDN is linked as follows: digital line -> router -> ethernet hub -> ethernet card Thanks =) Christian From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 14:13:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA04197 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA04191; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA15625; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:13:16 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA13880; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:13:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA13620; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:56:40 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199612212156.WAA13620@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: innd can't remalloc To: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:56:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: petzi@apfel.de (Michael Beckmann) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Michael Beckmann at "Dec 21, 96 10:35:35 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Beckmann wrote: > Next thing I'm going to upgrade to FreeBSD 2.2, to get the better malloc > and some other enhancements from it. The innd doesn't have to be that > large. I tried linking my inn with -lgnumalloc , but it was a desaster. If the malloc is all you want, you only need to copy over /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.{3,c} from -current. Rebuild your shared libc, and see whether it helped your problem. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 14:45:15 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA05560 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:45:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA05550; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:45:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA28229; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:44:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:44:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199612212244.PAA28229@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, petzi@apfel.de (Michael Beckmann) Subject: Re: innd can't remalloc In-Reply-To: <199612212156.WAA13620@uriah.heep.sax.de> References: <199612212156.WAA13620@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Next thing I'm going to upgrade to FreeBSD 2.2, to get the better malloc > > and some other enhancements from it. The innd doesn't have to be that > > large. I tried linking my inn with -lgnumalloc , but it was a desaster. > > If the malloc is all you want, you only need to copy over > /usr/src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.{3,c} from -current. Rebuild > your shared libc, and see whether it helped your problem. Actually, you can't use the malloc in -current in 2.1.* since it now uses some features that only exist in -current. I had to grab the pre phk/3 version which works great on my -stable systems. Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 15:13:41 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA07087 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA07072 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA11526; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:16:49 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:16:48 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Christian Hochhold cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth.. In-Reply-To: <199612212121.RAA01267@eternal.dusk.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Christian Hochhold wrote: > Hello folks, > > Just a quick question... > > How many Virtual Domains can a P133 with 64M RAM > host on a 128K ISDN, comfortably? Three separate questions here: Q1: how many virtual IPs can you put on a FreeBSD box? A1: More than 5,000 (that is as high as anyone has bothered to test.) Q2: What load can a P133/64MB cope with? A2: Well, other significant factors are disk type/speed and CPU L2 cache size. However, a 486-66 can sustain a load of about 5 conn/sec, so you are really looking at > 10 conn/sec, 600 conn/min, 36,000 conn/hour. Q3: What load can a 128kbps ISDN ? A3: 128kbps == 16kBytes/sec. Since the average Web document is about 15kBytes, you should be able to sustain a load of 1 conn/sec. Note that the capabilities of the P133 are *much* greater than the 128k link. Most of my customers' virtual servers get between 5,000 and 30,000 connections per month: less than 100 per hour. regards, Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 19:39:11 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA16271 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA16265 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA21948; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:38:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612220338.TAA21948@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Stephen Hovey cc: Alan Batie , fbsdlist@revelstone.jvm.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:34:54 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:38:12 -0800 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > We left UUNET for sprint. UUNET had much better customer service, but >> > with sprint we rarily need any customer service whereas with UUNET we did >> > (they dropped alot etc) >> >> On the other hand, Sprint seems to have a lot of routing problems... > >I dont agree. Sprint is often blamed for routing problems, but most >problems, when tracerouted etc were at MAE points. And places like >ftp.cdrom.com no long route thru them etc. The routing issues with Sprint seem to have improved a little, but it wasn't but just a few months ago that the Sprint network flapped so badly that it was usuable. I think these problems have mostly been isolated and dealt with (there was a flakey router in Dallas/FW that was lots of trouble, plus various IOS problems in DC and Stockton). I was very happy when my ISP here changed to default to MCI rather than Sprint...especially since MCI had just done some major upgrades that helped things a bunch. CRL peers with Sprint at the PB-NAP to avoid congestion that Sprint has at MAE-west (and probably for other reasons, such as load balancing their own circuits). Last time I looked, MCI peered with Sprint on the west coast through a dedicated circuit. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 20:06:29 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA17183 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA17178 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from swoosh.dunn.org (swoosh.dunn.org [206.158.7.243]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA10476; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:06:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:01:51 -0500 () From: Bradley Dunn To: David Greenman cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom In-Reply-To: <199612220338.TAA21948@root.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: bradley@harborcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, David Greenman wrote: > CRL peers with Sprint at the PB-NAP to avoid congestion that Sprint has > at MAE-west (and probably for other reasons, such as load balancing their > own circuits). Last time I looked, MCI peered with Sprint on the west coast > through a dedicated circuit. CRL also peers at mae-west: 3 sl-chi-6-F0/0.sprintlink.net (144.228.50.6) 13.410 ms 19.669 ms 13.291 ms 4 144.228.10.54 (144.228.10.54) 52.305 ms 52.294 ms 57.106 ms 5 sl-stk-1-F/T.sprintlink.net (198.67.6.1) 53.130 ms 57.866 ms 59.603 ms 6 sl-mae-w-H3/0-T3.sprintlink.net (144.228.10.110) 55.692 ms 68.072 ms 55.365 ms 7 T3-CRL-SFO-01-H1/0.US.CRL.NET (198.32.136.10) 72.085 ms 141.506 ms 230.938 ms Much better than when it all went over the CIX, though. Yes, basically at every exchange point city MCI + Sprint have a private interconnect to bypass the XPs. -BD From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Dec 21 22:22:09 1996 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA21075 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from netdev.comsys.com (COMSYS.COM [192.94.236.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA21070 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:22:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mobile1.comsys.com (por-or6-14.ix.netcom.com [199.35.206.206]) by netdev.comsys.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA14254; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:29:50 GMT Message-ID: <32BCD376.31D@aspn.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:21:42 -0700 From: alex huppenthal Reply-To: alex@aspn.net Organization: AIR/AIX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UUNET vs Netcom References: <199612220338.TAA21948@root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > > >> > We left UUNET for sprint. UUNET had much better customer service, but > >> > with sprint we rarily need any customer service whereas with UUNET we did > >> > (they dropped alot etc) > >> > >> On the other hand, Sprint seems to have a lot of routing problems... > > > >I dont agree. Sprint is often blamed for routing problems, but most > >problems, when tracerouted etc were at MAE points. And places like > >ftp.cdrom.com no long route thru them etc. > > The routing issues with Sprint seem to have improved a little, but it > wasn't but just a few months ago that the Sprint network flapped so badly > that it was usuable. I think these problems have mostly been isolated and > dealt with (there was a flakey router in Dallas/FW that was lots of trouble, > plus various IOS problems in DC and Stockton). I was very happy when my > ISP here changed to default to MCI rather than Sprint...especially since > MCI had just done some major upgrades that helped things a bunch. > CRL peers with Sprint at the PB-NAP to avoid congestion that Sprint has > at MAE-west (and probably for other reasons, such as load balancing their > own circuits). Last time I looked, MCI peered with Sprint on the west coast > through a dedicated circuit. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project According to my last discussion with Sprint, they recently upgraded several fiber rings, along with the Stockton location. We experienced lost packets and other problems with Sprint until just the past month. Our connection in Denver now peers with both Sprint and BBN. BBN periodically has troubles in the Bay area with significant delays. Anyone have a global measurement tool that would take minute by minute sample routes and create one report we can all share? Sprint claims they drop ICMP ping packets during congestion on purpose. Thus ping is not a good test tool. My experience is that Sprint historically didn't oversell capacity. Our local MCI clients have been complaining to us loudly. The ongoing upgrades each 'backbone' provider is undertaking makes picking one and expecting it to perform determisitically unrealistic. We used Netcom for some time and found them horrible this Spring. Over the period June-Aug their performance exceeded Sprints. Now Sprints is ahead. Cheers, -Alex