From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 02:16:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA22908 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 02:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA22903 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 02:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA08510; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA20865; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:18:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:18:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek To: David Nugent cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FraFreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, David Nugent wrote: > No, it isn't complex. Especially so if you've fiddled with html > and got the idea of how a markup language works. Same principle > (html is an sgml subset, with its own dtd). I think what people really want (always a dangerous statement) is just a properly formatted concise tag reference. Reading DTD's to figure that out (especially the linuxdoc one) is not very fun. I don't like the idea of reading someone else's work to learn how-to write linuxdoc documents... Because of the nature of markup, mistakes (spec. omitting markup where it should be) don't show up the same was as *null_pointer... Worse yet, they propogate in the same way as that `telephone' game from elementary school. > > I appreciate the fact that a guide would be helpful, > > Yep, it would. I didn't manage to find much helpful on the > Linuxdoc dtd, though, after some hours of looking, and this FWIW, I recall finding some things that were useful. Mostly by that Matt Welsh fellow. Try the following url... http://www.linux.locus.halcyon.com/Linuxdoc-SGML.html > OTOH, the docbook dtd does come with a sizeable amount of > documentation. It'll be good when that is finally integrated. I always thought the reason a linuxdoc guide was missing was because it was only a temporary in-between until docbook replaced it. That said, one must admit that docbook is more complicated than linuxdoc... My .tar.gz file of docbook documentation is 500k. It's considerably more when decompressed (say 2.6MB more). And I think its dtd eclipses 100k. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 03:56:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA25347 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 03:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA25337 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 03:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA19500; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:55:54 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:55:52 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Tim Vanderhoek) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com ("Jordan K. Hubbard"), chat@freebsd.org (FraFreeBSd Chat list) Subject: Re: FreeBSD documentation References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Vanderhoek on Jan 5, 1997 05:18:28 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek writes: > > No, it isn't complex. Especially so if you've fiddled with html > > and got the idea of how a markup language works. Same principle > > (html is an sgml subset, with its own dtd). > > I think what people really want (always a dangerous statement) is just a > properly formatted concise tag reference. Reading DTD's to figure that > out (especially the linuxdoc one) is not very fun. Agreed. In fact, I thought I said something similar. :) > I always thought the reason a linuxdoc guide was missing was because it > was only a temporary in-between until docbook replaced it. No idea. > That said, one must admit that docbook is more complicated > than linuxdoc... My .tar.gz file of docbook documentation > is 500k. It's considerably more when decompressed (say 2.6MB > more). And I think its dtd eclipses 100k. OTOH, the most useful subset is about as "complex" as linuxdoc - the problem is sorting out exactly what that is. :-) Sometimes too much documentation can get you buried and be just as frustrating as too little, even if there is a little more hope of seeing the light eventually. Having some examples to go with helps a great deal. I'm no sgml expert, but I've managed a few basic docs and one sizeable one using docbook in the last couple of months. I'm obviously using just a fraction of its capability, however, even if I've managed to work out some things which I couldn't figure at all with linuxdoc. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 05:31:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA29384 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA29361; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701051331.FAA29361@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? To: obrien@antares.aero.org (Mike O'Brien) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:31:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701050450.UAA20001@antares.aero.org> from "Mike O'Brien" at Jan 4, 97 08:50:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien wrote: > > > no form to set one up over the web ;( > > has to be done at the registration desk > > I did that, when I was doing USENIX things. Very hungry commercial > outfits were trying to schedule BoFs months in advance which amounted > to no more than live infomercials for their products. I was revulsed > and insisted that BoFs be scheduled only at the conference, to > preserve some semblance of spontaneity. I borrowed the BoF idea > from DECUS, where it amounts to meetings organized by people around > topics too new to have been scheduled into the regular program... > many regularly scheduled daytime DECUS sessions are (or were) really just > BoFs of long standing. > > I did this long before the IETF and its BoFs were a going concern, ditto > Uniforum. > > Frankly given the alternative I'm real happy with things as they are > now. given the history, it is a very good thing! thanks, will we be see you at usenix? jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 06:41:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA01612 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 06:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedar.netten.net (root@cedar.netten.net [205.244.191.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA01607 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 06:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from tracyphi (wok2-14.memphis.edu [141.225.224.54]) by cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11569 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:50:00 -0600 Message-ID: <32CFBE7B.2D31@cedar.netten.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:45:15 -0600 From: "Tracy E. Phillips" Reply-To: tphilips@cedar.netten.net Organization: redpoint.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Speaking of..... FreeBSD Docs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I printed out the FreeBSD Handbook in Windows95 using Ghost Script,Ghostview and a Cannon BJC600 printer. The bottom lines of the page is either missing or just the top quarter is showing. Needless to say this is very aggravting. When i was using linux i could print out the linux docs in the same fashion with no problems (or anyother postscript docs for that matter). is there a way to modify the source docs to put less lines per page, i assume that you are using sgml for the source or tex. thanks tracy From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 06:54:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA01855 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 06:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedar.netten.net (root@cedar.netten.net [205.244.191.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA01850 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 06:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tracyphi (wok2-14.memphis.edu [141.225.224.54]) by cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11894 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 09:02:44 -0600 Message-ID: <32CFC16F.3816@cedar.netten.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:57:51 -0600 From: "Tracy E. Phillips" Reply-To: tphilips@cedar.netten.net Organization: ceder.netten.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Couple of newbie questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have use Linux for a while so i am quite used to bash. How can i make bash the system default? How can i get the console block curser to be a blinking line? What are ide drives called under FreeBSD? My drives under Linux are: primary master = /dev/hda primary slave = /dev/hdb this is where my *nix OS sits secondary master = /dev/hdc Can you alter the location that /stand/sysinstall looks for packages? Since i do not have FreeBSD on cdrom i therefore have my packages on another partition. When will vfat be intoduced? This is probably not a cherished item to many, but i think it would be one feature that would attract people who are dual users of OS's. Thanks, Tracy From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 07:52:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA03498 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA03477 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA17620; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:51:16 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA00800; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:51:15 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA08543; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:46:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:46:40 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: tphilips@cedar.netten.net Subject: Re: Couple of newbie questions References: <32CFC16F.3816@cedar.netten.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <32CFC16F.3816@cedar.netten.net>; from Tracy E. Phillips on Jan 5, 1997 08:57:51 -0600 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Tracy E. Phillips wrote: > I have use Linux for a while so i am quite used to bash. How can i make > bash the system default? You probably don't want to make it your /bin/sh -- i think our current /bin/sh is less buggy than bash, and it's less bloated. Since /bin/sh is used explicitly or implicitly very often (scripts, system(3) etc.), a bloated shell is likely to consume more resources. If your only concern is to make it your login shell, that's fairly simple to accomplish: chsh -s /usr/local/bin/bash > How can i get the console block curser to be a blinking line? I'm not a syscons expert (working in X11 most of the time), but have you tried the `blink' mode for your cursor? I think it's a blinking block, but that's perhaps more what you're looking for. Make the change in /etc/sysconfig. To just try, read the manpage for vidcontrol(1). > What are ide drives called under FreeBSD? My drives under Linux are: > > primary master = /dev/hda /dev/[r]wd0 > primary slave = /dev/hdb this is where my *nix OS sits /dev/[r]wd1 > secondary master = /dev/hdc /dev/[r]wd2 One note of a difference: FreeBSD uses partitioning of its own, but also can handle fdisk partitions (which we prefer to call slices, to distinguish them from the historical unix partitions we're using). This is a two-layer approach. > Can you alter the location that /stand/sysinstall looks for packages? (No idea offhand.) > When will vfat be intoduced? When it's ready. The developer (Robert Nordier) ran into serious lack of time suddenly. Meanwhile, have a look at mtools. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 07:55:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA03564 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from revelstone.jvm.com (revelstone.jvm.com [207.98.213.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA03554 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:55:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from freyes.dh.i-2000.com (slip166-72-219-230.ny.us.ibm.net [166.72.219.230]) by revelstone.jvm.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA21427; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:55:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701051555.KAA21427@revelstone.jvm.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "tphilips@cedar.netten.net" Date: Sun, 05 Jan 97 10:55:16 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Couple of newbie questions Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:57:51 -0600, Tracy E. Phillips wrote: I am far from been a FreeBSD expert (I have not even been able to ge ppp to work with my ISP Advantis), but until someone else answers I could give you some initial pointers. >I have use Linux for a while so i am quite used to bash. How can i make >bash the system default? vipw. Before you change the shell you need to install it. I think that it is not installed by default so you have you to install it from the packages. >What are ide drives called under FreeBSD? My drives under Linux are: It depends on whether the drive is IDE or SCSI. I think IDEs are WD# where # is the drive number starting with 0. >Can you alter the location that /stand/sysinstall looks for packages? >Since i do not have FreeBSD on cdrom i therefore have my packages on >another partition. What do you mean by "I hve my packages on another partition"? What type of partition? DOS? I am writing this note from OS/2 so can't check right now, but I think you can go into options/media and tell the install program where you are picking up the packages from. If you could connect to the internet then you could download the packages from one of the sites. Good luck. ps Did you tried posting to the FreeBSD questions mailing list? The address of the list is doc@freebsd.org. You join it the same way you joined the chat mailing list (send email to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with the text "subscribe freebsd-questions" or if you prefer the digest then use "subscribe freebsd-questions-digest". From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 08:42:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA05240 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:42:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA05233 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11034; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:42:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:42:14 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Tracy E. Phillips" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Speaking of..... FreeBSD Docs In-Reply-To: <32CFBE7B.2D31@cedar.netten.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Tracy E. Phillips wrote: > I printed out the FreeBSD Handbook in Windows95 using Ghost > Script,Ghostview and a Cannon BJC600 printer. The bottom lines of the > page is either missing or just the top quarter is showing. Curious. That printer must have a fairly wide un-printable margin at the bottom of the page. I'll see if I can make the bottom margin a bit bigger. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 09:52:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA07833 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 09:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA07828 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 09:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id SAA20498; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:51:28 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA02950; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:51:28 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA09090; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:24:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:24:50 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat list) Cc: tphilips@cedar.netten.net Subject: Re: Couple of newbie questions References: <199701051555.KAA21427@revelstone.jvm.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701051555.KAA21427@revelstone.jvm.com>; from Francisco Reyes on Jan 5, 1997 10:55:16 -0400 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Francisco Reyes wrote: > ps Did you tried posting to the FreeBSD questions mailing list? The > address of the list is doc@freebsd.org. Certainly a typo of yours, but it's ``freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'', not ``doc''. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 12:54:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA14009 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA14000; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA10977; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:54:17 -0800 (PST) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Jan 1997 19:52:46 PST." <199701050352.TAA10598@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:54:16 -0800 Message-ID: <10974.852497656@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, I'm going to schedule it for 8pm on Wednesday. I just plain don't want to do it on Thursday. :) Jordan > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > > the BoF (birds of a feather) page at usenix.org > > > http://www.usenix.org/ana97/bofs.html > > > does not list a FreeBSD BoF! > > > > > > shall we schedule one? > > > 8pm wednsesday or 8pm thursday look good ;) > > > > > > jmb > > > > I was just about to post about this! > > > > sounds a good time to me! > > > David O'Brien (sp?) wants 8pm thursday, so let's go with that, no? > no form to set one up over the web ;( > has to be done at the registration desk > first one to arrive gets the honors! > jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 18:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA29919 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from revelstone.jvm.com (revelstone.jvm.com [207.98.213.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA29914 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from freyes.dh.i-2000.com (slip166-72-219-66.ny.us.ibm.net [166.72.219.66]) by revelstone.jvm.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA09350 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:08:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701060208.VAA09350@revelstone.jvm.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Sun, 05 Jan 97 21:07:52 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Is question digest slow lately or is it my provider? Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have only received one of the questions digest in about 48 hours. My provider (Advantis) is known for delaying emails I was just wondering if this was the case. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 18:36:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA01366 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA01361 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11860; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:36:18 -0800 (PST) To: "Francisco Reyes" cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "tphilips@cedar.netten.net" Subject: Re: Couple of newbie questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:55:16 -0400." <199701051555.KAA21427@revelstone.jvm.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:36:18 -0800 Message-ID: <11856.852518178@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ps Did you tried posting to the FreeBSD questions mailing list? The > address of the list is doc@freebsd.org. You join it the same way you Uh, no. It's questions@freebsd.org - doc@freebsd.org is only for issues related to FreeBSD's documentation. :) > joined the chat mailing list (send email to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with > the text "subscribe freebsd-questions" or if you prefer the digest then > use "subscribe freebsd-questions-digest". This is correct, just ignore the first typo. :) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 18:37:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA01396 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA01387 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11880; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:36:56 -0800 (PST) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: chat@freebsd.org, tphilips@cedar.netten.net Subject: Re: Couple of newbie questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Jan 1997 16:46:40 +0100." Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:36:56 -0800 Message-ID: <11877.852518216@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can you alter the location that /stand/sysinstall looks for packages? > > (No idea offhand.) I think it's called the Media menu, Joerg. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 5 21:26:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA07979 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA07957; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:26:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701060526.VAA07957@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:26:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <10974.852497656@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 5, 97 12:54:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i wish that you had responeded earlier. i scheduled the bof for 8pm thursday when i arrived at usenix (sunday night 7pm localtime). fel free to reschedule ;) when you arrive. jmb jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Actually, I'm going to schedule it for 8pm on Wednesday. I just plain > don't want to do it on Thursday. :) > > Jordan > > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > > > > the BoF (birds of a feather) page at usenix.org > > > > http://www.usenix.org/ana97/bofs.html > > > > does not list a FreeBSD BoF! > > > > > > > > shall we schedule one? > > > > 8pm wednsesday or 8pm thursday look good ;) > > > > > > > > jmb > > > > > > I was just about to post about this! > > > > > > sounds a good time to me! > > > > > David O'Brien (sp?) wants 8pm thursday, so let's go with that, no? > > no form to set one up over the web ;( > > has to be done at the registration desk > > first one to arrive gets the honors! > > jmb > > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 01:40:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA23337 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 01:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA23329 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 01:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA26257; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA29918; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:42:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Sean Batson (Sunbeach)" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Year 2000 time change(Format support) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Sean Batson (Sunbeach) wrote: > Is FreeBSD ready for the year 2000 time change and > what are the effects if the support for this format > isn't implemented asap with the OS? I don't understand all this hub-bub about year 2000. Everyone knows Doomsday is set for Dec. 23, 1999, anyways. However, should we somehow make it past 1999, let the damn Cobol programs rot!! -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 07:48:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA12482 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA12457; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:48:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701061548.HAA12457@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:48:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: obrien@antares.aero.org, julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701051331.FAA29361@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jan 5, 97 05:31:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The FreeBSD BoF has been changed to 8pm Wednesday and will take place in Salons 3 and 4 (seating for 100 people so come early) jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 07:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA12608 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:50:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA12602 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA20728; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:50:26 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:50:25 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Humor Break (fwd) X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, I just couldn't resist. :-) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 00:16:25 PST From: Humor Break Dispatch Subject: Humor Break CHAPTER 12: MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS _____________________________________ If the employees of your company are incompetent you might want to get some consultants. A consultant is a person who takes your money and annoys your employees while tirelessly searching for the best way to extend the consulting contract. Consultants will hold a seemingly endless series of meetings to test various hypotheses and assumptions. These exercises are a vital step toward tricking managers into revealing the recommendation that is most likely to generate repeat consulting business. After the "correct" recommendation is discovered, it must be justified by a lengthy analysis. The consultants begin working like crazed beavers in a coffee lake. Reams of paper will disappear. You'll actually be able to hear the screams of old-growth forests dying as the consultants churn out page after page of backup charts and assumptions. The analysis will be cleverly designed to be as confusing as possible, thus discouraging any second-guessing by sniping staff members who are afraid of appearing dense. When consultants are added to a department, they change the balance and chemistry of the group. You need a new process to take advantage of the consultants' skills. The most efficient process is to use the dullard employees as data gatherers to feed the massive brains of the consultants. This keeps the employees busy and makes them feel involved while the consultants hold meetings with senior managers of the company to complain about the support they're getting and to pitch new projects. Consultants use a standard set of decision tools that involve creating "alternative scenarios" based on different "assumptions." Any pesky assumptions that don't support the predetermined recommendation are quickly discounted as being uneconomical- for the consultants. The remaining assumptions are objectively validated by sending employees off to obtain information that is not available. Later, the assumptions are transformed into near-facts through the process of sitting around arguing about what is "most likely." Consultants will ultimately recommend that you do whatever you're NOT doing now. Centralize whatever is decentralized. Flatten whatever is vertical. Diversify whatever is concentrated and divest everything that is not "core" to the business. You'll hardly ever find a consultant who recommends that you keep everything the same and stop wasting money on consultants. And consultants will rarely deal with the root cause of your company's problems, since that's probably the person who hired them. Instead, they'll look for ways to improve the "strategy" and the "process." Consultants don't need much experience in an industry in order to be experts. They learn quickly. If your twenty-six-year-old consultant drives past the Egghead software outlet on the way to an assignment, that would qualify as experience in the software industry. If Egghead has a sale on modems that day: hardware experience. This type of experience is unavailable to the regular staff members who have worked in the industry for twenty years but still use yellow sticky notes to identify their various excrementory openings. Aside from their massive intellects, consultants bring many advantages to your company that regular employees can't match. - Consultants have credibility because they are not dumb enough to be regular employees at your company; - Consultants eventually leave, which makes them excellent scapegoats for major management blunders; - Consultants can schedule time on your boss's calendar because they don't have your reputation as a whiny little troublemaker who constantly brings up unsolvable "issues;" - Consultants are often more attractive than your regular employees. This is not always true, but if you get a batch of homely ones, you can always replace them next month; - Consultants will return your phone calls, because it's all billable time to them; AND - Consultants work preposterously long hours, thus making the regular staff feel like worthless toads for working only sixty hours a week. ---------===========================================--------- __ __ ___ __ / // /_ ____ _ ___ ____ / _ )_______ ___ _/ /__ / _ / // / ' \/ _ \/ __/ / _ / __/ -_) _ `/ '_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/\___/_/ /____/_/ \__/\_,_/_/\_\ A no-cost moderated email joke mailing list See the WWW page referenced below for subscription info morph@voyager.abac.com http://voyager.abac.com/~morph/jokes/ ---------===========================================--------- -----End of forwarded message----- Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 08:53:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA15696 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA15690; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA02764; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:52:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701061652.IAA02764@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: obrien@antares.aero.org, julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:48:53 PST." <199701061548.HAA12457@freefall.freebsd.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 08:52:20 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The FreeBSD BoF has been changed to > > 8pm Wednesday > >and will take place in Salons 3 and 4 (seating for 100 people so come early) This probably won't be big enough. It was standing room only at the last one, and we probably could have seated at least 150 people. I'm expecting things to be even larger with a need for at least 200 seats. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 14:48:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA06709 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA06680; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by antares.aero.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07915; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:47:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701062247.OAA07915@antares.aero.org> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: obrien@antares.aero.org (Mike O'Brien), julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Jan 1997 05:31:41 PST." <199701051331.FAA29361@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:47:24 -0800 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > thanks, will we be see you at usenix? Yep, I'll be there from Tuesday evening on. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 16:39:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA16059 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA16053; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA20411; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:33:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32D19981.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:32:01 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mike O'Brien" CC: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? References: <199701062247.OAA07915@antares.aero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien wrote: > > > thanks, will we be see you at usenix? > > Yep, I'll be there from Tuesday evening on. As will I (armed with job descriptions to post :) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:13:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA17725 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA17719; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00315; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:12:22 -0800 (PST) To: Julian Elischer cc: "Mike O'Brien" , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:32:01 PST." <32D19981.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:12:22 -0800 Message-ID: <312.852599542@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As will I (armed with job descriptions to post :) And a follow-up presentation for "DEVFS, one year later." perhaps? :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:19:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18286 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA18278; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA13211; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:09:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701070109.SAA13211@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:09:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, obrien@antares.aero.org, julian@whistle.com, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701061652.IAA02764@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jan 6, 97 08:52:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >and will take place in Salons 3 and 4 (seating for 100 people so come early) > > This probably won't be big enough. It was standing room only at the last > one, and we probably could have seated at least 150 people. I'm expecting > things to be even larger with a need for at least 200 seats. Invite the press... at least Bootle and Pournelle (Bootle will be thre; I don't know about Pournelle). That high an attendance of a "spontaneous" get-together is likely to merit a mention in their column... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:27:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18678 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA18644; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by antares.aero.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09813; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:26:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701070126.RAA09813@antares.aero.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Julian Elischer , "Mike O'Brien" , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Apropos of nothing other than cool toys In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:12:22 PST." <312.852599542@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:26:16 -0800 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mr. Protocol (aka me, although I'll deny it) was loaned a MessagePad 2000 (the new Newton) for evaluation. I'll have it at the conference if anyone wants to sneak a look. Most cogent comment I've heard, and I believe it: if the original Newton had worked this well, we'd all own one by now. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:31:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA19011 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA18996; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:30:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00438; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:29:29 -0800 (PST) To: "Mike O'Brien" cc: Julian Elischer , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apropos of nothing other than cool toys In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:26:16 PST." <199701070126.RAA09813@antares.aero.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:29:28 -0800 Message-ID: <435.852600568@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mr. Protocol (aka me, although I'll deny it) was loaned a MessagePad We've known you were Mr Protocol for years now, Mike - your secret is probably the worst-kept one in the universe. :-) > 2000 (the new Newton) for evaluation. I'll have it at the conference > if anyone wants to sneak a look. Most cogent comment I've heard, and > I believe it: if the original Newton had worked this well, we'd all > own one by now. I saw them at COMDEX and heard similar accolades from one of the evangelists, but didn't get close enough to play with one myself. I'll take you up on that. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:49:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA20230 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20224; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA04511; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:47:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701070147.RAA04511@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:09:18 MST." <199701070109.SAA13211@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:47:37 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >and will take place in Salons 3 and 4 (seating for 100 people so come early) >> >> This probably won't be big enough. It was standing room only at the last >> one, and we probably could have seated at least 150 people. I'm expecting >> things to be even larger with a need for at least 200 seats. > >Invite the press... at least Bootle and Pournelle (Bootle will be thre; >I don't know about Pournelle). That high an attendance of a "spontaneous" >get-together is likely to merit a mention in their column... Oh, I doubt it. The Linux BOF last year had more than 500 in attendance. They had their BOF in The Grand Ballroom...I was thinking last year that we should have done the same thing. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:55:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA20687 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20669 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA06842; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:24:30 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701070154.MAA06842@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Lignux - RMS article (pointer fyi) In-Reply-To: <199701061004.LAA00833@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Jan 6, 97 11:04:12 am" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:24:30 +1030 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph Kukulies stands accused of saying: > > Just for those being interested in GPL Copyright issues: > > http://www.ssc.com/lj/issue30/rms.html > > contains an article of Richard Stallman on the issue of > Linux and GNU (GPL). *snort* "It's mine, all mine I tell you!! Those stinking Linux bastards have stolen _MY_ software!! How dare they go against the almighty GNU?!" This bit is a giggle : "We obtained other components by helping to convince their developers to make them free--for example, the Berkeley network utilities." And this one shows he has no idea about marketing : "...use the terms 'Linux-based GNU system' or 'GNU/Linux system', instead of 'Linux system,' when you write about or mention such a system." Personally, I'll stick with "bucket of snot", which conveys my opinion much more accurately. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 6 17:57:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA20823 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:57:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA20817; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA13380; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:47:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701070147.SAA13380@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:47:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701070147.RAA04511@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jan 6, 97 05:47:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> This probably won't be big enough. It was standing room only at the last > >> one, and we probably could have seated at least 150 people. I'm expecting > >> things to be even larger with a need for at least 200 seats. > > > >Invite the press... at least Bootle and Pournelle (Bootle will be thre; > >I don't know about Pournelle). That high an attendance of a "spontaneous" > >get-together is likely to merit a mention in their column... > > Oh, I doubt it. The Linux BOF last year had more than 500 in attendance. > They had their BOF in The Grand Ballroom...I was thinking last year that we > should have done the same thing. I meant "an obviously larger than expected number of people" at such an event where the press people were in attendance... they probably weren't at the Linux event (or the Linux event *did* get mention. Better to look like you have more people interested than you expected than to look like you have less... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 01:15:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA08455 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA08433 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA11050; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:17:37 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id KAA05415; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:31:17 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701070931.KAA05415@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Lignux - RMS article (pointer fyi) In-Reply-To: <199701070154.MAA06842@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Jan 7, 97 12:24:30 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:31:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Christoph Kukulies stands accused of saying: > > > > Just for those being interested in GPL Copyright issues: > > > > http://www.ssc.com/lj/issue30/rms.html > > > > contains an article of Richard Stallman on the issue of > > Linux and GNU (GPL). > > *snort* "It's mine, all mine I tell you!! Those stinking Linux > bastards have stolen _MY_ software!! How dare they go against the > almighty GNU?!" > > This bit is a giggle : > > "We obtained other components by helping to convince their developers > to make them free--for example, the Berkeley network utilities." > > And this one shows he has no idea about marketing : > > "...use the terms 'Linux-based GNU system' or 'GNU/Linux system', > instead of 'Linux system,' when you write about or mention such a > system." > > Personally, I'll stick with "bucket of snot", which conveys my opinion > much more accurately. I got the pointer from Linux Journal from a colleague. I'm tempted to write them a reply to this because they also discredit the BSD camp as 'being busy infighting'... Anyone interested in a copy of that article of LJ Oct 96? I can put up a scanned document (tif). I've also prepared a reply to that article: " Dear Editor/Publisher Regarding the article titled 'The Politics of Freedom' in the Oct. 96 issue of LJ I would like to mention that the BSD 'crowd' as you put it isn't infighting at all. This so called 'BSD crowd' is writing code as well and are improving their product in a much more uniform way than the different Linux vendors do. Linux has been participating to a great extent from that fact in the past. (only to mention the BSD based IP networking in Linux). As a member of the FreeBSD mailing lists I can tell you that Linus Thorvalds himself is a member of these mailing lists and speaks up there from time to time. And as a side note, it would have fit you better - rather than miscrediting the 'BSD crowd' - if you had lost a word on the BSD Copyright which is a lot more free than the GPL (virus, as it is also called sometimes). While the GPL enforces everyone to supply source when distributing his software with GNU software - Sometimes I doubt if this diction is obeyed in every case with all Linux distributions that come from all these different vendors - the BSD Copyright isn't that restrictive at all. It proliferates commercial use much more than the GPL does. Why not broadening the scope of your Journal to other free Unices rather than taking this hostile position against anything which is not Linux like one could get the impression from said article? Sincerely Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de " I will post a copy of that article later if anyone is interested in cross reading/augmenting my reply to the magazine. > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 07:27:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA25989 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA25949 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:26:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA18962 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:26:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id QAA06636 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:24:09 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:24:09 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701071524.QAA06636@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: That LJ article Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If anyone is interested, I've put up for ftp download a scan of that article (sorry for the bad quality) on: ftp://ftp.de.freebsd.org/incoming/lj.tif.gz ftp://ftp.de.freebsd.org/incoming/lj.jpg.gz (both around 180 K). --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 08:29:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA28479 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from interlink.ReyMoreno.net.co ([205.218.236.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA28415; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.218.237.166] (windows.reymoreno.net.co [205.218.237.166]) by interlink.ReyMoreno.net.co (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18963; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:28:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199701071928.LAA18963@interlink.ReyMoreno.net.co> To: "Mike O'Brien" , "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 11:32:12 -0500 From: Mauricio Calderòn X-Mailer: e-mailMCI v2.3 CC: "Mike O'Brien" , Julian Elischer , "hackers@freefall.freebsd.org" , "chat@freefall.freebsd.org" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -- [ From: Mauricio Calderòn * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- Unsubscribe someone please. I have tried unsubscribe with majordomo but I´m still receiving messages. Rgds, Mauricio Calderon -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Monday, 06-Jan-97 02:47 PM From: Mike O'Brien \ Internet: (obrien@antares.aero.org) To: Jonathan M. Bresler \ Internet: (jmb@freefall.freebsd.org) cc: Mike O'Brien \ Internet: (obrien@antares.aero.org) cc: Julian Elischer \ Internet: (julian@whistle.com) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org \ Internet: (hackers@freefall.freebsd.org) cc: chat@freefall.freebsd.org \ Internet: (chat@freefall.freebsd.org) Subject: Re: Usenix FreeBSD BoF when? > thanks, will we be see you at usenix? Yep, I'll be there from Tuesday evening on. -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 10:52:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA04363 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA04358 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA01384 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:52:27 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id TAA15786 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:52:01 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id TAA15132; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:45:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:45:06 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lignux - RMS article (pointer fyi) References: <199701070154.MAA06842@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199701070931.KAA05415@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55.15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2837 In-Reply-To: <199701070931.KAA05415@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>; from Christoph Kukulies on Jan 7, 1997 10:31:17 +0100 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Christoph Kukulies: > Linux has been participating to a great extent from that fact in the past. > (only to mention the BSD based IP networking in Linux). Not that the ``kernel-side'' of the TCP/IP code inside LInux is *not* BSD derived. They stopped considering taking the code into Linux when USL sued CSRG. User-land code is mostly BSD. Mostly because many programs have different output formats (annoying "feature"). Alan Cox has said enough time that his code was better (no comment). That also means that some "standard" features are not yet implemented in Linux (like sa_len & RTF_STATIC last time I tried to build GateD)... > As a member of the FreeBSD mailing lists I can tell you that > Linus Thorvalds himself is a member of these mailing lists and speaks up > there from time to time. I haven't checked on freefall but I don't think Linus is a subscribing member of the freebsd-* lists. He has been Cc'ed many times but that's all. Same for the BSD newsgroups although he has been seen without a crosspost inside comp.os.linux.*. > I will post a copy of that article later if anyone is interested in > cross reading/augmenting my reply to the magazine. Please take into account the above before sending it to LJ... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 17:49:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA04440 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from karanthia.humbug.org.au (root@karanthia.humbug.org.au [130.102.171.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA04435 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from karanthia (james@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karanthia.humbug.org.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA22585 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:49:27 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199701080149.LAA22585@karanthia.humbug.org.au> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Year 2000 time change(Format support) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:42:37 EST." Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:49:26 +1000 From: James Lever Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Sean Batson (Sunbeach) wrote: >> Is FreeBSD ready for the year 2000 time change and >> what are the effects if the support for this format >> isn't implemented asap with the OS? >I don't understand all this hub-bub about year 2000. Everyone knows >Doomsday is set for Dec. 23, 1999, anyways. >However, should we somehow make it past 1999, let the damn Cobol programs >rot!! Just a small note, this Sunday (12 Jan 1997) is the day that HAL9000 from 2001 was to be activated. cheers, James From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 18:29:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA06220 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from revelstone.jvm.com (revelstone.jvm.com [207.98.213.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA06214 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from freyes.dh.i-2000.com (slip166-72-219-112.ny.us.ibm.net [166.72.219.112]) by revelstone.jvm.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29334 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:29:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701080229.VAA29334@revelstone.jvm.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 21:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Francisco Reyes's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Which mailing list? Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am giving a shot at Modula 3 and had a problem trying a sample program from a tutorial. Which would be a good list for discussions on this? BTW the problem I am relating to is a FreeBSD/Port type of problem not a Modula 3 problem (a missing library). From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 7 19:55:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA10760 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA10755 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA13306; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:24:55 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701080354.OAA13306@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Lignux - RMS article (pointer fyi) In-Reply-To: <199701070931.KAA05415@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Jan 7, 97 10:31:17 am" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:24:54 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph Kukulies stands accused of saying: > > I got the pointer from Linux Journal from a colleague. > I'm tempted to write them a reply to this because they > also discredit the BSD camp as 'being busy infighting'... A reply would be a good idea, but be careful with it. > Regarding the article titled 'The Politics of Freedom' in the Oct. 96 > issue of LJ I would like to mention that the BSD 'crowd' as you put it > isn't infighting at all. This so called 'BSD crowd' is writing code as > well and are improving their product in a much more uniform way than the > different Linux vendors do. ... mention that the so-called 'BSD crowd' ... This 'crowd' is writing ... their product in a far more uniform fashion ... > Linux has been participating to a great extent from that fact in the past. ... has benefitted to a great ... > (only to mention the BSD based IP networking in Linux). Wrong. Don't mention that. > As a member of the FreeBSD mailing lists I can tell you that > Linus Thorvalds himself is a member of these mailing lists and speaks up > there from time to time. He's not; he just gets cc'd by most Linux weenies when they get out of their depth. Don't mention that either. 8) > And as a side note, it would have fit you better - rather than > miscrediting the 'BSD crowd' - if you had lost a word on > the BSD Copyright which is a lot more free than the GPL > (virus, as it is also called sometimes). While the GPL > enforces everyone to supply source when distributing his > software with GNU software - Sometimes I doubt if this diction > is obeyed in every case with all Linux distributions that > come from all these different vendors - the BSD Copyright > isn't that restrictive at all. It proliferates commercial use > much more than the GPL does. ... rather than discrediting ... if you had spared a word ... which is arguably freer than ... (General Public Virus, ...) ... GPL requires everyone ... distributing their ... if this dictate ... It encourages commercial use ... > Why not broadening the scope of your Journal to other > free Unices rather than taking this hostile position against > anything which is not Linux like one could get the impression > from said article? "Perhaps you could consider broadening the scope of your worthy Journal to other free Unix-like operating systems, rather than taking such a hostile stance against anything that is not clearly Linux, as in the abovementioned article and others in that issue." > I will post a copy of that article later if anyone is interested in > cross reading/augmenting my reply to the magazine. Hopefully the above proof isn't too harsh 8) > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de btw. hope you got your Apollo going; still trying to find OS media for mine 8( -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 8 11:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA25488 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA25483 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15196; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:50:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 11:39:52 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <22430.852285183@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings Jordan, I have to disagree with you on one point here. > >From my very rough estimates, it would take around $350,000 to hire > the first tech support people and the accountant/office manager, rent > a small office in a not-too-wealthy part of town, get phone lines and > a small PBX installed, run a T1 out from a local ISP and buy a couple > of office server systems. And that's being highly frugal at all > times; taking on full-time employees is just plain expensive, once you > add up all the benefits and 401K plans you're required to make > available. You don't have to have medical, 401k or many of the other niceties for a small start up business. They are costly and many, many small businesses can't afford to have them until they have been running for a while. (We just got medical about a year and a half ago here.) You also wouldn't have to have a large group of people answering phones. One or two who could act at your first line of support who would then contact some of your medium or heavy guns working out of their home's/dorms/closets ;). The first level could have a good database of the archives to do simple searches for the easer questions. Also you would not have to have a T1 when you start. A good CentrexISDN dial up with a small provider would suffice as you could arrange to put a server on their network for when you need the bandwidth and do a trade with them (Tech Servics for the bandwidth.) One of my favorite ISP's here in the South Bay Area called ScruzNet (out of Santa Cruz) was founded by a couple of FreeBSD enthusiasts. They now run FreeBSD and NetBSD on their network. A CentrexISDN full time dial up only costs about $350 a month if you are in one of the areas that are serviced. I have been playing with all of these things here in this office, when I took over the Tech Support dept here it was only me and one other person handling all of the calls. (I guess you couldn't really call that a department ;) If you try you can make a really excellent support group work with the bare essentials. If you all were to do something like this I would be willing to donate time to help get it started, I really like FreeBSD and think that the core team is doing a really good job. -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/08/97 11:39:52 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 8 18:35:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA18817 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:35:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA18812 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA04925 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701090235.VAA04925@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: 2.2-BETA(2?) on ftp.cdrom.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:35:54 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Might I suggest that before we roll a 2.2-RELEASE it first runs on ftp.cdrom.com for a few weeks? If there is any system that can verify an OS, its cdrom.com! -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 8 22:51:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA11701 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA11695 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA20463 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:51:17 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA29814 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:51:17 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id HAA17901; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:33:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:33:29 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-BETA(2?) on ftp.cdrom.com References: <199701090235.VAA04925@crh.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701090235.VAA04925@crh.cl.msu.edu>; from Charles Henrich on Jan 8, 1997 21:35:54 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Charles Henrich wrote: > Might I suggest that before we roll a 2.2-RELEASE it first runs on > ftp.cdrom.com for a few weeks? If there is any system that can > verify an OS, its cdrom.com! No chance. wcarchive has to run a stable system, and nobody in his right mind would even remotely believe 2.2 to be stable enough for that purpose. If it were, we would have skipped 2.1.6, be assured. The costs to ``experiment'' in such a degree on wcarchive are IMHO too high. (David might correct me here, but i'm positive he's got the same opinion. ;) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 9 01:28:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA18214 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA18209 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:28:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA02592; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:28:45 -0800 (PST) To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-BETA(2?) on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:35:54 EST." <199701090235.VAA04925@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 01:28:45 -0800 Message-ID: <2588.852802125@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk But ftp.cdrom.com doesn't run dot-zero releases either. It's not something I really recommend to any commercial site, unless they definitely know what they're doing. For something less than ftp.cdrom.com I think you could probably run 2.2 without much grief. For ftp.cdrom.com, it being a rather extreme case, I think staying back a revision (in this case 2.1.6) is a better idea. :-) Jordan > Might I suggest that before we roll a 2.2-RELEASE it first runs on > ftp.cdrom.com for a few weeks? If there is any system that can verify an OS, > its cdrom.com! > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 11 08:48:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA23518 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:48:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (root@spinner.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA23509 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.DIALix.COM (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA25372 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:47:48 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199701111647.AAA25372@spinner.DIALix.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: More "error" messages Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:47:48 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was fighting with my wife's Win95 machine trying to get Internet Exploder to use the proxy server properly.. Anyway, during the course of the threats, name calling, etc, I got this gem of an error message: "Unable to get configuration information about your computer because of the following error: More data is available." And I thought unix's "Error 0: No error" was insane.. Now Windoze takes the cake.. "The error is that we know more than we should about the computer". AARGH!! Delete!! format!! fdisk!! -Peter From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 11 10:46:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28288 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA28278 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA03116; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:43:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: HCI To: Peter Wemm cc: chat@Freebsd.org Subject: Re: More "error" messages In-Reply-To: <199701111647.AAA25372@spinner.DIALix.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@Freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I found that the Inet Exploder could not handle my private network address, 10.0.0.1. Netscape did though - another tremendous excuse to remove a Microsoft product. On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Peter Wemm wrote: > I was fighting with my wife's Win95 machine trying to get Internet > Exploder to use the proxy server properly.. > > Anyway, during the course of the threats, name calling, etc, I got this > gem of an error message: > > "Unable to get configuration information about your computer because of > the following error: More data is available." > > And I thought unix's "Error 0: No error" was insane.. Now Windoze takes > the cake.. "The error is that we know more than we should about the > computer". > > AARGH!! Delete!! format!! fdisk!! > > -Peter > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 11 15:46:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA14511 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA14506 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA15639; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:25 -0800 (PST) To: "Sean J. Schluntz" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD into larget corp. environment? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:39:52 EST." Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:46:24 -0800 Message-ID: <15635.853026384@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You don't have to have medical, 401k or many of the other niceties > for a small start up business. They are costly and many, many small That's good to know, thanks! > You also wouldn't have to have a large group of people answering > phones. One or two who could act at your first line of support who Agreed, I was thinking 2 to start with (that 350K figure I quoted before wasn't for a roomful of people, it was actually for a very conservative 3 employee estimate! The most expensive (and necessary) would be the business manager since I have little skill with (or patience for) the minutae of running a business. > If you all were to do something like this I would be willing to > donate time to help get it started, I really like FreeBSD and think > that the core team is doing a really good job. -Sean An interesting offer on which I may take you up someday. :-) Thanks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 11 18:15:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA24612 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:15:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA24607 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:15:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA09870; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:43:39 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701120213.MAA09870@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: FreeBSD -> NCR Tower In-Reply-To: <199701111947.MAA24041@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 11, 97 12:47:49 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:43:38 +1030 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > FreeBSD for the NCR Tower! Yes! Yes! > > I was thinking about this a while ago. > > A Tower32 wouldn't be that hard (given the NetBSD HP300 port), but > a Tower16 would be a bugger... unfortunately, the only NCR hardware > I know is lying around somewhere is a Tower16. > > Maybe we should abstract the VM dependencies and services provided > from a dependency on a full PMMU? Then you could port to the Tower16, > the Tandy 6000, and the 80286, if you wanted. Back when I was young and stupid (so not so long ago I guess), a national chain of department stores were throwing out their collection of Tower machines. I spent some time chasing NCR for hardware details, with no luck. Probably a good thing, really 8) > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 11 19:03:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA27018 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA27007 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA23536; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:02:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701120302.TAA23536@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-BETA(2?) on ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:35:54 EST." <199701090235.VAA04925@crh.cl.msu.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:02:01 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Might I suggest that before we roll a 2.2-RELEASE it first runs on >ftp.cdrom.com for a few weeks? If there is any system that can verify an OS, >its cdrom.com! Other's have already adequately answered this, but I thought perhaps I'd add that I do plan on switching to 2.2-stable after 2.2R has been out for awhile (a month or two)...assuming that no significant bugs are found, of course. Right now, things aren't looking very good for this prospect, however. In any case, I'm not in any hurry and I'm certainly not willing to run pre-release code on the machine. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project