From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 00:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA01778 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01755 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA00417 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:35:58 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA08112; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:58:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970405075831.RR58244@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 07:58:31 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for your report (fwd) References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Perry on Apr 5, 1997 09:46:41 +1000 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew Perry wrote: > Isn't this beautiful! :-) Yes, but please, please don't post every success mail here. This would only cause serious spamming of -chat... Be assured, i could send you at least 50 KB of these mails already. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 00:36:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA01807 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01785 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA00438; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:36:09 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA08139; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:06:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970405080659.WD01036@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:06:59 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com Subject: Re: Some significant (daresay serious) problems with 2.2.1 install & keyboard References: <199704050156.UAA12255@lakes.water.net> <2605.860209243@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2605.860209243@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Apr 4, 1997 19:00:43 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > P.S. Fix your mailer please - it emits very bogus addresses! I also > don't see the need for a UUCP account in this day and age. UUCP is the only reliably working (and fully automated/automatable) batch file transmission protocol. The Internet has absolutely not been designed for dialup sites. I'm getting all my mails, CTM deltas etc. via UUCP (which is sometimes run over TCP if i happen to be directly connected to the Internet by that time). I probably had a much harder day if UUCP weren't available. David's problem is Data General's mailer setup at dg-rtp. As i understand it, he's using this service for free (and withouth the agreement to receive spam :), and nobody's ever going change anything on DG's side... ;-) (I used to have similar address mangling problems back in the time when my employer used DG machines, until i revamped the sendmail.cf from scratch.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 00:39:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA02106 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02085 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA00630 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:39:09 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA09185; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 16:45:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970405164545.VT34532@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 16:45:45 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot References: <1637.860190691@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Thomas Arnold on Apr 5, 1997 08:49:38 -0500 Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Thomas Arnold wrote: > Hopefully we wont degenerate into a Political Correctness discussion... > what the hell would we name man pages??? WoMan pages people pages -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 01:50:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11536 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11519 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00844; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:50:04 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19970406195003.20282@usn.blaze.net.au> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:50:03 +1000 From: David Nugent To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some significant (daresay serious) problems with 2.2.1 install & keyboard References: <199704050156.UAA12255@lakes.water.net> <2605.860209243@time.cdrom.com> <19970405080659.WD01036@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61 In-Reply-To: <19970405080659.WD01036@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Apr 04, 1997 at 08:06:59AM Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > David's problem is Data General's mailer setup at dg-rtp. As i > understand it, he's using this service for free (and withouth the > agreement to receive spam :), and nobody's ever going change anything > on DG's side... ;-) (I used to have similar address mangling problems > back in the time when my employer used DG machines, until i revamped > the sendmail.cf from scratch.) I'm in precisely the same position with one of my uucp links. I rarely use it these days other than for incoming mail pickup, but the address remains "alive" for the sake of holding over my old email addresses to which I still receive half a dozen a week. Everything gets "banged" up royally, although I *can* massage headers using sendmail to strip out the cruft and do site->domain substitution and rewriting once it gets here, I can't do much about anything that goes out via that same route (consequently, I don't send anything that way either :-)). The sendmail.cf running on that site must be over a decade old and even then was one of the very few UUCP relay systems left in this country (for anyone interested, this is munnari.oz.au aka mulga.oz.au). When I originally asked for it to be fixed back in '89 or so, I was told "don't mess with what works". Of course, this is some new and wonderful definition of the term 'works' I had never heard of previously. Still, the mail arrives and that link has been free of charge for all these years, so I'm not about to complain further. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 01:52:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11991 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11986 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00853; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:52:45 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19970406195244.28362@usn.blaze.net.au> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:52:44 +1000 From: David Nugent To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot References: <1637.860190691@time.cdrom.com> <19970405164545.VT34532@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61 In-Reply-To: <19970405164545.VT34532@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Apr 04, 1997 at 04:45:45PM Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Apr 04, 1997 at 04:45:45PM, J Wunsch wrote: > > Hopefully we wont degenerate into a Political Correctness discussion... > > what the hell would we name man pages??? > > WoMan pages > people pages Somehow, typing "people bash" at the command prompt to read a ma^H^Hperson page for the gnu shell doesn't excite me much. Unless I'm having a *real* hard day. :-) Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 09:44:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11402 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.risc.org (taob@trt-on23-04.netcom.ca [207.181.99.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11387; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (taob@localhost) by alpha.risc.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA13884; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 12:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 12:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HUBS-L , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Who is responsible for /pub/FreeBSD/incoming ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I noticed there is a *lot* of junk in the incoming directory. Just a quick scan of my mirror suggests that the following files should probably not be given the privilege of residing within the FreeBSD distribution tree. :) Is there any reason why files older than, say, 6 months need to be kept around? Zero-length or incomplete files should be deleted as well (I found a bunch of truncated tar files). The .tgz files with a timestamp of Dec 19 21:14 and onwards appear to be Debian Linux packages (.deb files). Surely those don't belong in here? :) -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jan 16 16:39 3DDUKE13.ZIP -r--r--r-- 1 root root 5910927 Jan 9 12:55 3dduke13.zip -r--r--r-- 1 root root 920674 Jan 25 19:16 AlienSkin.zip -r--r--r-- 1 root root 772210 Nov 27 21:02 CHIP1.EXE -r--r--r-- 1 root root 92870 Jan 16 09:41 COMMAND.COM -r--r--r-- 1 root root 45492 Jan 16 09:37 DRVSPACE.BIN -r--r--r-- 1 root root 71287 Jan 16 09:39 DRVSPACE1.BIN -r--r--r-- 1 root root 59128 Jan 16 09:32 FDISK.EXE -r--r--r-- 1 root root 40135 Jan 16 09:32 FORMAT.COM -r--r--r-- 1 root root 2151028 Feb 21 01:09 GitS-Track01-MakingOfCyborg.mp2 -r--r--r-- 1 root root 223148 Jan 16 09:31 IO.SYS -r--r--r-- 1 root root 25473 Jan 16 09:29 MSCDEX.EXE -r--r--r-- 1 root root 9 Jan 16 09:29 MSDOS.SYS -r--r--r-- 1 root root 80614 Mar 24 20:57 TEST3A.MP3 -r--r--r-- 1 root root 3139 Jul 29 1996 afterstep-0.98b18.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4524 Mar 22 1996 amanda-2.2.6.5.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1778 Feb 22 06:38 angband-2.8.0-port.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 934912 Mar 4 21:40 bottomline.mp3 -r--r--r-- 1 root root 12937073 Mar 6 23:25 crosstree-1.2p1.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 782587 Dec 19 21:14 devel.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 48727969 Dec 19 21:24 devel1.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 270577 Dec 19 21:14 doc.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 11785677 Dec 19 21:15 editors.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 389616 Dec 19 21:15 electron.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 9251039 Dec 19 21:15 games.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 6228156 Dec 19 21:16 graphics.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1442145 Apr 10 1996 kaffe-0.3-port.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 49 Aug 2 1996 kaffe-0.5p2.README -r--r--r-- 1 root root 206802 Aug 2 1996 kaffe-0.5p2.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4136 Nov 23 13:29 kaffe.0.6.0.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4273 Jan 7 04:17 kaffe.0.7.0-port.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4423 Jan 23 15:58 kaffe.0.71.port.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 2906 Feb 15 17:36 kaffe0.80.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1086589 Jan 16 10:50 kernel -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1156532 Jan 25 19:31 kptgoo.zip -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4422965 Dec 19 21:17 mail.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 4615815 Dec 19 21:18 math.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 5977508 Dec 19 21:18 misc.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 8747303 Dec 19 21:18 net.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1946567 Dec 19 21:19 news.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 728820 Mar 23 1996 pine-3.92.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 14363 Jun 15 1996 pine-3.94.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 11 Jan 28 07:56 pleasedeleteme -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Dec 19 10:48 put -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1562951 Dec 19 21:19 shells.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 16087040 Mar 15 04:45 si.tar -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1401 Apr 5 1996 socks5-beta-0.12.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 1263 Apr 5 1996 socks5.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 975061 Dec 19 21:19 sound.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 787762 Jul 6 1996 stronghold-1.2.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 5687431 Dec 19 21:20 tex.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 7324834 Dec 19 21:20 text.tgz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Dec 19 10:44 tk-4.1p1.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root root 3084 Feb 18 1996 underg.ans -r--r--r-- 1 root root 22174500 Dec 19 21:21 x11.tgz -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 10:13:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA16452 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [192.41.71.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16445 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from castle (root@ip204.konnections.com [192.41.71.204]) by mail.konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA27355; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:12:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <334929C3.3B03C54@konnections.com> Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:07:15 -0700 From: mike allison Organization: Publisher -- Burning Eagle Book Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Tao CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who is responsible for /pub/FreeBSD/incoming ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know why no one was kind enough to delete "pleasedeleteme" after it was polite and said `please'.... "... Please Delete me Let me go... ..." Brian Tao wrote: > > I noticed there is a *lot* of junk in the incoming directory. > Surely those don't belong in here? :) > > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 11 Jan 28 07:56 pleasedeleteme > From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 21:32:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18301 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18285 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-4-80.mu.de.ibm.net [139.92.4.80]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA27410 ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA23081; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:52:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:52:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199704062352.BAA23081@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: chat@freebsd.org cc: pas3078@aol.com Subject: telex/email gateway ? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Email: jhs@freebsd.org, Fallback: jhs@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de X-Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. X-Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Tel: Phone +49.89.268616, Fax +49.89.2608126, Data +49.89.26023276 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please excuse a non FreeBSD question folks: Anyone know of commercial email to worldwide telex gateway providers ? (I only know of free email to fax gateways, such as remote-printer.dest_name@498926023276.iddd.tpc.int ( There's a web address something like www.tpc.int for that ) Julian --- Julian H. Stacey http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 6 21:33:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18719 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18699 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA26803 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11215; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:56:15 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:56:15 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: Joerg Wunsch cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thank you for your report (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19970405075831.RR58244@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sorry, i got excited that's all :-) point taken Andrew Perry > As Andrew Perry wrote: > > > Isn't this beautiful! :-) > > Yes, but please, please don't post every success mail here. This > would only cause serious spamming of -chat... > > Be assured, i could send you at least 50 KB of these mails already. :) > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 7 08:18:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17857 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tm.net.my (janeway.tm.net.my [202.188.0.155]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA17845 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (btr-24-77.tm.net.my [202.188.24.77]) by mail.tm.net.my (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA00261 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:14:48 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <199704071514.XAA00261@mail.tm.net.my> From: "Francis Tey" To: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:15:49 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk can i have the software for the online chat?.....thanx. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 7 15:04:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16623 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.iastate.edu (cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16592 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunfire.cs.iastate.edu (sunfire.cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.46]) by cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA13592; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:03:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (ghelmer@localhost) by sunfire.cs.iastate.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA06226; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:03:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sunfire.cs.iastate.edu: ghelmer owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:03:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Guy Helmer To: Zach Heilig cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spring sucks (really :-) In-Reply-To: <19970404043040.38326@murkwood.gaffaneys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Zach Heilig wrote: > It's flood time again along the Red River (the northern one, not the one > in Texas). If anyone is curious where all the snow goes when it melts, > check our newspapers web page(s): I'm glad I'm not up in the Dakotas this spring. I feel for you (and everyone else I know up there)! From the TV pictures yesterday, it looks like the storm over the weekend just made things worse... Guy Helmer, Computer Science Grad Student, Iowa State - ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 00:41:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21960 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 00:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from murkwood.gaffaneys.com (dialup6.gaffaneys.com [134.129.252.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21955 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 00:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from zach@localhost) by murkwood.gaffaneys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA02342; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:43:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Zach Heilig Message-ID: <19970408024303.27597@murkwood.gaffaneys.com> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:43:03 -0500 To: Guy Helmer Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spring sucks (really :-) References: <19970404043040.38326@murkwood.gaffaneys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Guy Helmer on Mon, Apr 07, 1997 at 05:03:51PM -0500 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Apr 07, 1997 at 05:03:51PM -0500, Guy Helmer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Zach Heilig wrote: > > It's flood time again along the Red River (the northern one, not the one > > in Texas). If anyone is curious where all the snow goes when it melts, > > check our newspapers web page(s): If anyone tried to look recently, there was no power in this area, but it should be back now... > I'm glad I'm not up in the Dakotas this spring. I feel for you (and > everyone else I know up there)! From the TV pictures yesterday, it looks > like the storm over the weekend just made things worse... Well, we only have one confirmed fatality from this blizzard. That is actually not too terrible, as there are usually more fatalities during such a bad blizzard. He was dumb enough to walk away from his stalled car, he would have survived (most likely) had he stayed in his car. There were three others in a car that slipped into a water filled ditch, and two of them had to swim (through the thin ice!!) to get help. All of them did survive, but rescuers had to take a boat to a deserted farmhouse to pick up one of the people. The boat could not make it all the way, so one of the firemen had to walk on the ice (but broke through and had to wade through waste deep water). But, at least nobody was seriously injured in that incident. Yes, some people have been out of power since Friday night, and are still out. They are expecting sub-zero weather tonight, so those people are going to be a bit cold tonight. Some people are not going to get power until the weekend. Grand Forks was limping along with one medium voltage line supplying the entire city earlier on the 7th. I think we have 3 lines (2 high-voltage ones) on now. There are normally 6 lines into the city. Here in Grand Forks proper we were pretty lucky, there are still about 200 houses without power, but we are mostly back all back. Some were only out for about 2 hours, we were out for 36 hours. Most of the power lines just couldn't handle the thunderstorm / freezing rain / hail / ice / snow / winds gusting to 70 mph [and now we are looking at record flooding]... There was at least 400,000 out of power at the height of the storm (there are only 650,000 or so in the entire state...). I believe there are currently 25,000 total in the area (including Minnesota) still out of power. There are linemen from all over the the region (even Canada) fixing the various lines. One company (there are several, 6 I think) ordered 500 poles for themselves. A lot of the downed poles are out in the middle of full ditches, so I wouldn't like that job at the moment. I was out driving around during the height of the storm (only in town... still not a good idea, I didn't have much choice)... It was really strange to see traffic lights blinking green, and some were blinking 4-way green. All in sync with the street lights and the radio station. This is currently considered the absolute worst blizzard the National weather service has analyzed anywhere for at least 1941 (and perhaps even further back). They are now expecting the water to get to 49+ feet. It is currently at 39.15 feet (and rising)... South of us in Wahpeton and Breckenridge saw record flooding (almost 20 feet, they evacuated at least Breckenridge since some of the dykes broke). Here in GF, they are working with splitting the work between cleaning up after the blizzard, building temporary dykes, and coordinating sand-bagging efforts. The water has reached the permanent dykes. At 42 feet, it starts flowing over the lower dykes. There are still only two radio stations broadcasting. Yesterday, there was only >ONE< radio station along the MN/SD,ND boarder all the way to Canada [based from Fargo]. In the house here, the temperature did get down in the forties once Sunday afternoon. We did have a kerosene heater in the garage that we brought out, walked a mile to the gas station (that had just opened when it got power), got the kerosene, and got the basement and living room up to about 60 degrees (that is comfortable, really!). We also had a campstove for cooking and other sources for light. It became very appearant that we were by shear luck mostly prepared for this. The worst problem was boredom... I think I called about everybody twice, and we played games and otherwise tried to occupy our time. But, even through situations like this, this is still probably one of the better places to live in this country :-) Everything is starting to seem normal again, and it's kinda hard to remember that there was actually a blizzard a few days ago... That's about all for now... -- Zach Heilig (zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com) | ALL unsolicited commercial email | is unwelcome. I avoid dealing | with companies that email ads. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 09:24:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16475 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16455; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199704081624.JAA16455@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) To: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970408104844.00acf6b0@sentex.net> from "Mike Tancsa" at Apr 8, 97 10:48:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk moved to chat Mike Tancsa wrote: > > At 09:39 AM 4/08/97 -0500, Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > > > >This was an April Fools Joke!! > > > >I guess someone fell for it. :-) > > Remember, a lot of people fell for the "Microsoft to buy Catholic church" > joke that went around a while back, and that was even more outrageous. I > must say however that when I first read it I thougt it could be > serious....It is the Microsoft way afer all... "Cant beat it, buy it" :-) they didn't buy the church itself, but rather the vatican library books, manuscripts, etc. and the reproductions rights for all art works in churches throuh the world. if you all ready have a copy of an art book about the sistine chapel thats fine, all new book will ahave to pay rolaylites to miscrosoft i understand hte reason was to beef up the encarta cd jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 09:50:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17654 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17601; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA18709; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970408123655.00a228f0@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:36:55 -0400 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704081624.JAA16455@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <3.0.1.32.19970408104844.00acf6b0@sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:24 AM 4/08/97 -0700, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >moved to chat > >Mike Tancsa wrote: >> >> At 09:39 AM 4/08/97 -0500, Kenneth P. Stox wrote: >> > >> >This was an April Fools Joke!! >> > >> >I guess someone fell for it. :-) >> >> Remember, a lot of people fell for the "Microsoft to buy Catholic church" >> joke that went around a while back, and that was even more outrageous. I >> must say however that when I first read it I thougt it could be >> serious....It is the Microsoft way afer all... "Cant beat it, buy it" :-) > > they didn't buy the church itself, but rather the vatican > library books, manuscripts, etc. and the reproductions > rights for all art works in churches throuh the world. if > you all ready have a copy of an art book about the sistine > chapel thats fine, all new book will ahave to pay rolaylites > to miscrosoft > > i understand hte reason was to beef up the encarta cd Actually, there was a 'real' joke version that went around that stated the entire church was now owned by Microsoft... That the pope was now a Microsoft Employee and so on... A lot of people actually believed it to be true. ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 11:33:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22499 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [207.198.1.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22494 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13987; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199704081830.OAA13987@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970408110531.00b24c50@etinc.com> from dennis at "Apr 8, 97 11:05:34 am" To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > its not THAT outrageous...if you think those guys can't be bought (they > already > have been, in fact), then you're head is in the sand....stranger things have > happened..... Anyone wanting to whip up their paranoia a level should get the latest issue of Upside. I don't think it is an April fool's issue. Some high points I remember include: Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they don't say how fast though); Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; etc etc. Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 14:07:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA01777 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01769 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA13540; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970408170617.00a4a820@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 17:06:20 -0400 To: Peter Dufault From: dennis Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:30 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Peter Dufault wrote: >> >> its not THAT outrageous...if you think those guys can't be bought (they >> already >> have been, in fact), then you're head is in the sand....stranger things have >> happened..... > >Anyone wanting to whip up their paranoia a level should get the latest >issue of Upside. I don't think it is an April fool's issue. Some high >points I remember include: > >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they >don't say how fast though); > >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; > >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; > >etc etc. > >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the direction they are taking. Dennis From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 14:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03963 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03958 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01013; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704082147.OAA01013@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: dennis cc: Peter Dufault , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Apr 1997 17:06:20 EDT." <3.0.32.19970408170617.00a4a820@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:47:12 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, It is nice to chalked up to Microsoft the purchase of WebTV;however, the real question is if any of the big computer companies even tried to ??? There is a ton of lethargy in the computer industry or more like monkeys waiting to see what will happen next... Amancio >From The Desk Of dennis : > At 02:30 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Peter Dufault wrote: > >> > >> its not THAT outrageous...if you think those guys can't be bought (they > >> already > >> have been, in fact), then you're head is in the sand....stranger things > have > >> happened..... > > > >Anyone wanting to whip up their paranoia a level should get the latest > >issue of Upside. I don't think it is an April fool's issue. Some high > >points I remember include: > > > >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they > >don't say how fast though); > > > >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; > > > >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; > > > >etc etc. > > > >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, > >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software > >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract > >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. > > I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and > understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very > troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will > be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone > buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the direction > they are taking. > > Dennis From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 15:24:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05677 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05672 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13486; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id SAA12042; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:24:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:24:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: dennis cc: Peter Dufault , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970408170617.00a4a820@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, dennis wrote: > >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they > >don't say how fast though); > > > >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; > > > >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; > > > >etc etc. > > > >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, > >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software > >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract > >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. > > I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and > understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very > troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will > be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone > buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the direction > they are taking. Courts don't do it, Justice and Congress do, and they are completely baffled by computers in the first place. Some judges actually spend the time to learn the issues involved, but congressmen, unless it's politically needed, never do. As long as Mom and Pop are happy with MS, congress will leave them alone. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 15:48:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06615 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06608 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA14108; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970408184747.00a54250@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:47:49 -0400 To: Amancio Hasty From: dennis Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: Peter Dufault , chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:47 PM 4/8/97 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >Yes, It is nice to chalked up to Microsoft the purchase of WebTV;however, >the real question is if any of the big computer companies even tried to ??? > >There is a ton of lethargy in the computer industry or more like >monkeys waiting to see what will happen next... > > Amancio You are thinking backwards. The lethargy is CAUSED by Microsoft's dominance. There is no competition for Windows because...who can compete with their marketing power? Who else could buy WebTV and put the kind of money into it that would be required to make such a stupid idea profitable? Dennis > >>From The Desk Of dennis : >> At 02:30 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Peter Dufault wrote: >> >> >> >> its not THAT outrageous...if you think those guys can't be bought (they >> >> already >> >> have been, in fact), then you're head is in the sand....stranger things >> have >> >> happened..... >> > >> >Anyone wanting to whip up their paranoia a level should get the latest >> >issue of Upside. I don't think it is an April fool's issue. Some high >> >points I remember include: >> > >> >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they >> >don't say how fast though); >> > >> >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; >> > >> >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; >> > >> >etc etc. >> > >> >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, >> >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software >> >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract >> >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. >> >> I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and >> understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very >> troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will >> be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone >> buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the direction >> they are taking. >> >> Dennis > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 15:52:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07385 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07379 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA14127; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970408185120.00b162c0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:51:23 -0400 To: Chuck Robey From: dennis Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: Peter Dufault , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:24 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: >On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they >> >don't say how fast though); >> > >> >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; >> > >> >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; >> > >> >etc etc. >> > >> >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, >> >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software >> >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract >> >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. >> >> I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and >> understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very >> troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will >> be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone >> buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the direction >> they are taking. > >Courts don't do it, Justice and Congress do, and they are completely >baffled by computers in the first place. Some judges actually spend the >time to learn the issues involved, but congressmen, unless it's >politically needed, never do. As long as Mom and Pop are happy with MS, >congress will leave them alone. bunk....mom and pop were happy with AT&T..it took sprint and mci and ibm to get attention. The Justice dept (I thought Justice== courts???) still doesnt understand the AT&T breakup, and they never will probably, but the impact of microsoft is MUCH more damaging than AT&T. AT&T, at least, was doing good things, microsoft is a vulture. Denis > >----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- >Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data >chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. >9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | >Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD >(301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! >----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 16:02:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08319 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08313 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03751; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704082301.QAA03751@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: dennis cc: Peter Dufault , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:47:49 EDT." <3.0.32.19970408184747.00a54250@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 16:01:52 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am not thinking backwards and I am pretty sure specially in this Unix group that many will share your opinion. There are quite a number of companies which can actually pull off the same number that Microsoft just did. See Ya, Amancio >From The Desk Of dennis : > At 02:47 PM 4/8/97 -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > >Yes, It is nice to chalked up to Microsoft the purchase of WebTV;however, > >the real question is if any of the big computer companies even tried to ??? > > > >There is a ton of lethargy in the computer industry or more like > >monkeys waiting to see what will happen next... > > > > Amancio > > You are thinking backwards. The lethargy is CAUSED by Microsoft's > dominance. There is no competition for Windows because...who > can compete with their marketing power? Who else could > buy WebTV and put the kind of money into it that would be required > to make such a stupid idea profitable? > > Dennis > > > > > >>From The Desk Of dennis : > >> At 02:30 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Peter Dufault wrote: > >> >> > >> >> its not THAT outrageous...if you think those guys can't be bought (they > >> >> already > >> >> have been, in fact), then you're head is in the sand....stranger things > >> have > >> >> happened..... > >> > > >> >Anyone wanting to whip up their paranoia a level should get the latest > >> >issue of Upside. I don't think it is an April fool's issue. Some high > >> >points I remember include: > >> > > >> >Microsoft R&D $2e9 this year "and we're going to triple it" (they > >> >don't say how fast though); > >> > > >> >Microsoft hardware group revenues $3e6 per employee; > >> > > >> >Microsoft presenting 20% of the papers at SIGGRAPH; > >> > > >> >etc etc. > >> > > >> >Especially entertaining is the discussion of the Windows CE platform, > >> >which one article claims is a proprietary hardware and software > >> >product with the manufacturers competing to be low cost contract > >> >hardware manufacturers for Microsoft. > >> > >> I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and > >> understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very > >> troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will > >> be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone > >> buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the > direction > >> they are taking. > >> > >> Dennis > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 16:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA11223 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11215 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00361; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704082337.QAA00361@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: dennis cc: Peter Dufault , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:47:49 EDT." <3.0.32.19970408184747.00a54250@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 16:37:50 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of dennis : > You are thinking backwards. The lethargy is CAUSED by Microsoft's > dominance. There is no competition for Windows because...who > can compete with their marketing power? Who else could > buy WebTV and put the kind of money into it that would be required > to make such a stupid idea profitable? > > Dennis Okay, I am going to be a nice guy ... Perhaps Sony, Nintendo or Sega have the marketing clout and distribution channels to push the WebTV idea. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 17:09:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14268 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14262 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA21578; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:39:08 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704090009.JAA21578@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199704082337.QAA00361@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 8, 97 04:37:50 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:39:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, dufault@hda.com, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > >From The Desk Of dennis : > > can compete with their marketing power? Who else could > > buy WebTV and put the kind of money into it that would be required > > to make such a stupid idea profitable? > > > > Dennis > > Okay, I am going to be a nice guy ... Perhaps Sony, Nintendo or Sega have > the marketing clout and distribution channels to push the WebTV idea. ... however none of them has ever displayed the courage to push someone else's stupid idea hard enough to make it a success. Sony is extremely conservative (and have shown that they too believe that it's owning content rather than selling the delivery hardware that counts), and I'm really not sure that Nintendo or Sega would have the faintest idea how to do it. Microsoft are about the only organisation around at the moment that has a demonstrated track record of buying a mediocre product and badge-engineering it to success-by-brute-force. Would that it were not so. 8( > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 17:23:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14904 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (root@po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14895 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baud.eng.umd.edu (baud.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.183]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01998; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by baud.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id UAA10589; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:23:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: baud.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:23:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@baud.eng.umd.edu To: dennis cc: Peter Dufault , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970408185120.00b162c0@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, dennis wrote: > >> I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and > >> understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very > >> troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will > >> be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone > >> buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the > direction > >> they are taking. > > > >Courts don't do it, Justice and Congress do, and they are completely > >baffled by computers in the first place. Some judges actually spend the > >time to learn the issues involved, but congressmen, unless it's > >politically needed, never do. As long as Mom and Pop are happy with MS, > >congress will leave them alone. > > bunk....mom and pop were happy with AT&T..it took sprint and mci and ibm > to get attention. The Justice dept (I thought Justice== courts???) still > doesnt > understand the AT&T breakup, and they never will probably, but the impact of > microsoft is MUCH more damaging than AT&T. AT&T, at least, was doing good > things, microsoft is a vulture. This is getting too far afield from FreeBSD, so I won't be replying again after this. Courts != Justice. Courts==Judicial branch, Justice == executive branch. Back in 1984, Justice had a antitrust suit of considerable ago going (and not really getting anywhere) when AT&T decided to offer the breakup. The Courts approved it, but didn't force (or even suggest) it. Neither Congress nor our Justice Dept knows enough about computers to appreciate our concerns, and they won't take them seriously until their game programs stop working. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 21:33:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24659 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24654 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01786; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704090433.VAA01786@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 1997 09:39:07 +0930." <199704090009.JAA21578@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:33:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > ... however none of them has ever displayed the courage to push someone Oh I don't know those guys down there seem to be extremely aggressive to lead the next wave . Actually, extremely aggressive is not strong enough. Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 8 22:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA26454 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26446 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24420; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:42:51 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704090512.OAA24420@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199704090433.VAA01786@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 8, 97 09:33:40 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:42:50 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? You ask this of someone with a predisposition towards 19" screens with .26 or better dot pitch? I've used computers that are designed for TV output (I love playing Descent on projection TV's 8), and I'm not sure which of the thought of trying to browse the web as it exists on a TV screen or considering what it will become in order to be usable on a TV revolts me more. > >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > > ... however none of them has ever displayed the courage to push someone > > Oh I don't know those guys down there seem to be extremely aggressive to > lead the next wave . Actually, extremely aggressive is not strong enough. Aggression and courage are not the same. > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 00:33:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA03527 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 00:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03513 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 00:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00421; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 00:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704090733.AAA00421@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:42:50 +0930." <199704090512.OAA24420@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:33:19 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? > > You ask this of someone with a predisposition towards 19" screens with > .26 or better dot pitch? I've used computers that are designed for TV > output (I love playing Descent on projection TV's 8), and I'm not sure > which of the thought of trying to browse the web as it exists on a TV > screen or considering what it will become in order to be usable on a > TV revolts me more. Okay, so you are a snob or an "elite". Does that mean that your average person who doesn't know anything about PC should invest lets say $2000 to get a decent web browser -- at least in the US you got to take into consideration the age factor which means that many can't read the small fonts on a small 17 inch monitor. Not that WebTV is that great but it is a great tool to start getting familiar with PCs and the Internet and then if they have a clue or care for they can get a box with a "real" web browser. Besides, TVs are not that bad for watching mpeg or better yet mpeg II (dvd) --- Just went today to WinHec 97 and I saw some pretty amazing PC gear playing mpeg II at full tilt on SVGA Monitors, TVs or both ... I just think that PCs will just simply cannabilize TVs and it is going to be pretty hard to tell the difference. You see you are talking to someone who is used to watching TV (mind you on FreeBSD) with his PC. What I want do easily is just to watch mpeg flicks on my TV --- you know for that good old couch potatoe feeling. I have a VGA to an NTSC converter however I hope that soon I can get all the gear in a single card: mpeg encode/decode, ntsc out, 3d, 2d, sound , modem, etc... Yes there are such beasts coming up for Christmas with *all* that functionality. As to what is going to deliver the high resolution / tv , I honestly don't know ;however, I don't think that the big tv manufacturers are going to sit around idle to figure out what is going to happen next. About Decent , I don't mind my 17 inch monitor and PC with my $5000 stereo . Well, it feels earth shaking 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 01:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA06672 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [207.198.1.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA06667 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA15041 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 04:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199704090851.EAA15041@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199704090512.OAA24420@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Apr 9, 97 02:42:50 pm" To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 04:51:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? > > You ask this of someone with a predisposition towards 19" screens with > .26 or better dot pitch? I've used computers that are designed for TV > output (I love playing Descent on projection TV's 8), and I'm not sure > which of the thought of trying to browse the web as it exists on a TV > screen or considering what it will become in order to be usable on a > TV revolts me more. This year's WebTV isnt that important. We have a battle going on in the US over HDTV standards. Microsoft now has a way of getting an installed base of HDTV systems out using the computer industry's preferred lower resolution non-interlaced HDTV standard ahead of the broadcast industry's preferred interlaced standard. Plus another hardware platform to licence to the consumer electronics companies that will run only MS software, and a hardware technology to licence to the add-in video manufacturers. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 02:34:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA08558 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 02:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08548 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 02:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA00354; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 02:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704090934.CAA00354@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Peter Dufault cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 1997 04:51:20 EDT." <199704090851.EAA15041@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 02:34:16 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Peter Dufault : > > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > > May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? > > > > You ask this of someone with a predisposition towards 19" screens with > > .26 or better dot pitch? I've used computers that are designed for TV > > output (I love playing Descent on projection TV's 8), and I'm not sure > > which of the thought of trying to browse the web as it exists on a TV > > screen or considering what it will become in order to be usable on a > > TV revolts me more. > > This year's WebTV isnt that important. We have a battle going on > in the US over HDTV standards. Microsoft now has a way of getting > an installed base of HDTV systems out using the computer industry's > preferred lower resolution non-interlaced HDTV standard ahead of > the broadcast industry's preferred interlaced standard. Plus > another hardware platform to licence to the consumer electronics > companies that will run only MS software, and a hardware technology > to licence to the add-in video manufacturers. > Yeap, I was thinking about that too -- they did lobby to get their issues thru in the HDTV standard . I refuse to believe that Microsoft was able to forsee the combination of WebTV and HDTV however it is the sort of tactic that someone like Bill Gates would probably love to deploy 8) What I am wondering about is if the Broadcast industry is going to keep talking about HDTV 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 05:53:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA17641 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 05:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17636 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 05:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dbws.etinc.com (dbws.etinc.com [204.141.95.130]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA18627; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970409085155.006a1a44@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 08:51:58 -0400 To: Michael Smith , hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) From: dennis Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: dufault@hda.com, chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:39 AM 4/9/97 +0930, Michael Smith wrote: >Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: >> >From The Desk Of dennis : >> > can compete with their marketing power? Who else could >> > buy WebTV and put the kind of money into it that would be required >> > to make such a stupid idea profitable? >> > >> > Dennis >> >> Okay, I am going to be a nice guy ... Perhaps Sony, Nintendo or Sega have >> the marketing clout and distribution channels to push the WebTV idea. > >... however none of them has ever displayed the courage to push someone >else's stupid idea hard enough to make it a success. Sony is extremely >conservative (and have shown that they too believe that it's owning >content rather than selling the delivery hardware that counts), and >I'm really not sure that Nintendo or Sega would have the faintest idea >how to do it. > >Microsoft are about the only organisation around at the moment that >has a demonstrated track record of buying a mediocre product and >badge-engineering it to success-by-brute-force. Precisely. Any dont forget that microsoft has the luxury of a free O/S that they can customize like no-one else can.....the failure of WebTV was likely to be that its not "like Windows"...any other concern would have to either license from Microsoft, get sued by microsoft or roll their own. Dennis . From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 05:55:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA17715 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 05:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17710 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 05:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dbws.etinc.com (dbws.etinc.com [204.141.95.130]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA18642; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970409085417.006b72fc@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 08:54:20 -0400 To: Chuck Robey From: dennis Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) Cc: Peter Dufault , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:23 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: >On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >> I wonder how long its going to take for the courts to bone up on this and >> >> understand what Microsoft has become. The WebTV acquisition is very >> >> troubing to me, as well as the fact that they also announced that the will >> >> be selling "diskless workstations". Pretty soon they will make everyone >> >> buy hardware from them also...it seems fairly clear that thats the >> direction >> >> they are taking. >> > >> >Courts don't do it, Justice and Congress do, and they are completely >> >baffled by computers in the first place. Some judges actually spend the >> >time to learn the issues involved, but congressmen, unless it's >> >politically needed, never do. As long as Mom and Pop are happy with MS, >> >congress will leave them alone. >> >> bunk....mom and pop were happy with AT&T..it took sprint and mci and ibm >> to get attention. The Justice dept (I thought Justice== courts???) still >> doesnt >> understand the AT&T breakup, and they never will probably, but the impact of >> microsoft is MUCH more damaging than AT&T. AT&T, at least, was doing good >> things, microsoft is a vulture. > >This is getting too far afield from FreeBSD, so I won't be replying again >after this. Courts != Justice. Courts==Judicial branch, Justice == >executive branch. Back in 1984, Justice had a antitrust suit of >considerable ago going (and not really getting anywhere) when AT&T decided >to offer the breakup. The Courts approved it, but didn't force (or even >suggest) it. "Forced" by lobbying from the likes of Sprint, MCI and IBM..which was my point...not because the justice dept conceptualized a problem. db From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 07:44:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23188 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23159 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.8.5/8.8.5-RB) id KAA08954; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970409104345.MY14132@@> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:43:45 -0400 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) References: <199704090433.VAA01786@rah.star-gate.com> <199704090512.OAA24420@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199704090512.OAA24420@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Apr 9, 1997 14:42:50 +0930 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > May I ask what is so stupid about WebTv? > > You ask this of someone with a predisposition towards 19" screens with > .26 or better dot pitch? I've used computers that are designed for TV > output (I love playing Descent on projection TV's 8), and I'm not sure > which of the thought of trying to browse the web as it exists on a TV > screen or considering what it will become in order to be usable on a > TV revolts me more. It's not the picture that's the problem. It's a proprietary box that only talks to "WebTV Networks". This is not what the web or the Internet is about. At least Microsoft (currently) bundles Windows 95 with a standard PPP dialer in addition to their prominently displayed MSN crap. It may not be obvious to the average user, but it's _possible_ to choose an ISP based on other factors than what Microsoft wants you to believe. With WebTV, there is no such choice. And from what I've heard, some of the people out in rural areas have been rather startled to recieve thousand-dollar telephone bills because it's been silently calling the "nearest" POP. Microsoft refuses to accept its big failures (MSNBC, MSN, etc.) but MSN _is_ a failure. Maybe this is another way to get a piece of the dialup action. Windows 97 now with ActiveWebTVExplorer. Hell, built into your TV. You turn it on, it calls 1-900-MSWEBTV at $2.95/min. -- Christopher Masto . . . . chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com perl -e 'map{vec($x,$_>$}?$_+$y:$_+($y+=8),1)=1;$}=$_}split//,"12360123". "562456503460256245650565460256145623565360560156013560256145613";print$x' On Ethics, Congressional: I've got 423 dairy farmers in my district, and I've got to rise above principle. - Tennessee State Representative John Bragg, on why he was for [fair trade - pricing] price controls on milk but against it for liquors From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 07:50:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23524 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23518; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:50:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199704091450.HAA23518@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FW: Unix Gurus shift to Microsoft (fwd) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, dufault@hda.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970408185120.00b162c0@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Apr 8, 97 06:51:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > bunk....mom and pop were happy with AT&T..it took sprint and mci and ibm > to get attention. The Justice dept (I thought Justice== courts???) still > doesnt congress and teh executive are moved by either a large public outcry or large corportate outcry, everything else is projects for local consituents (inlcuding beoing ;) or junketing The Justice dept is *not* the courts. The Justice dept is part of the executive branch. the courts are the judicial branch. congress is the legislative branch. teh consitution was designed, purposely, to create friction and conflict (checks and balances) between the three branches of gov't. (dont their teach *any* civics anymore?) suggested reading: the constitution the federalist papers by james madision, he later became president > understand the AT&T breakup, and they never will probably, but the impact of > microsoft is MUCH more damaging than AT&T. AT&T, at least, was doing good > things, microsoft is a vulture. standard oil was broken up creating esso (exxon), sohio, and several other companies. microsfot may yet meet the same fate, especially if they branch into hardware. hardware/software is a distinction that is much clerer to people than applications/os. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 20:57:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11412 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from david-neu.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [139.23.36.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11403 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salomon.mchp.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david-neu.siemens.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17926 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:52:45 +0200 (MDT) Received: from samrat.blr.siemens.de (samrat.blr.siemens.de [180.144.252.254]) by salomon.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA05272 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:57:29 +0200 (MDT) Received: from india (india [180.144.250.254]) by samrat.blr.siemens.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA05216 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:12:13 +0530 (IST) Received: from foxtrot by india with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA108344420; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:23:41 +0530 Received: by foxtrot (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA136784773; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:29:33 +0530 From: Mangesh Chore Posted-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:29:33 +0530 Received-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:29:33 +0530 Message-Id: <199704100359.AA136784773@foxtrot> Subject: Please discontinue me from this list To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 9:29:33 IST In-Reply-To: <3575.860641377@orion.webspan.net>; from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 09, 97 11:02 pm Reply-To: scs.014@blr.siemens.de Organization: Siemens Communication Software Ltd, Bangalore, India X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 111.1] Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Can you please delete my name from this mailing list Regards From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 9 23:56:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19731 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papillon.lemis.de ([203.239.92.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19716; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id PAA01255; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:23:13 +0900 (KST) From: grog@lemis.de Message-Id: <199704100623.PAA01255@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Informix efficiency--any ideas? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:23:05 +0900 (KST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This message doesn't really have anything to do with FreeBSD, but possibly somebody here has an idea. As a result, though it's a technical subject, please follow up to -chat. I'm currently in Korea looking at a performance problem with Informix on a MIPS System V platform. We are comparing two MIPS platforms with different System V.4 implementations, A and B. The A machine is an SMP with 2 R4400s at 200 MHz; the B machine is an SMP with 2 R4400s at 150 MHz. B runs a specific, and relatively simple, DB insert program almost exactly twice as fast as A. We did some examination and found that the port of Informix on A performs 21729 system calls to insert 5000 records into a table. Of these, 21403 calls are to semsys. B performs approximately half this number of calls, equally split (what a surprise) between send() and recv(): although it's System V.4, it has a native sockets implementation. I'm obviously following this up with Informix and vendor A, but I'd be interested if anybody here had a view with a different bias. Do semaphores have to be so much less efficient, or could this just be a poor semxxx() implementation on A? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 00:27:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21370 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR2-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21363 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA20409; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:26:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199704100626.BAA20409@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:26:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704041736.JAA21271@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Apr 4, 97 09:36:06 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Pedro Giffuni wrote: > > > > B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His > > complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the > > beast). Other famous terms: > > MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 > > Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" for english gematria. > > well i guess that confirms what i suspected all along. ;) > playing(?) with sums formed from letters is a very old > practice. in hebrew every letter is also a number so no > translation table is required. the sequence for the letters > runs 1, 2, 3, ... 9, 10, 20, ... 100, 200, 300, 400. no > 0. 400 is the last leter of the alphabet (alef bet, are > the first two letters of the alphabet[a]) numbers larger You are confusing Hebrew and Greek:) ^^^^^^^^^^^ > than 400 are fomed by repeating 400, etc...well i guess > that i have rambled enough. It is called gematria. I thought it started with Aleph at 1 and ended with Tzaddi(final) at 900. Yes all the numbers above 400 are final letters, so may not be used in all dialects (I only know one in a very limited way...). > > jmb > Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 00:35:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21737 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.19.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21726; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA16159; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA00307; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:34:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:34:02 -0400 Message-Id: <199704100734.DAA00307@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: grog@lemis.de CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199704100623.PAA01255@papillon.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: Informix efficiency--any ideas? Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Seems like B is an SGI/IRIX box, if so the results do no surprise me one bit.... Correct me if I am wrong ;-) ---------------------------------------------//// Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & //// 199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s //// ethernet. Beat that! //// -----------------------------------------////__________ o David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ >< From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 00:47:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22341 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22316; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA01734; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:17:34 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704100747.RAA01734@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Informix efficiency--any ideas? In-Reply-To: <199704100623.PAA01255@papillon.lemis.de> from "grog@lemis.de" at "Apr 10, 97 03:23:05 pm" To: chat@freebsd.org, grog@lemis.de Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:17:34 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk grog@lemis.de stands accused of saying: > > We did some examination and found that the port of Informix on A > performs 21729 system calls to insert 5000 records into a table. Of > these, 21403 calls are to semsys. B performs approximately half this > number of calls, equally split (what a surprise) between send() and > recv(): although it's System V.4, it has a native sockets > implementation. > > I'm obviously following this up with Informix and vendor A, but I'd be > interested if anybody here had a view with a different bias. Do > semaphores have to be so much less efficient, or could this just be a > poor semxxx() implementation on A? I don't think it's that the semaphores are less efficient, but that there is more semaphore activity required to transfer the given data. At a guess, a record transaction with semaphores goes something like : writer puts data in shared memory area, raises 'data is there' semaphore. reader wakes on semaphore, raises 'I am busy with your data' semaphore reader finishes with data, lowers 'I am busy with your data' semaphore writer wakes on semaphore, repeat. That's 4 system calls for a single transaction. With sockets, I would expect : writer calls send() with data, repeat reader returns from recv() with data, repeat ie. two calls, and if socket buffering works the two will be decoupled as well, reducing the impact of the (potentially) less efficient send/recv by eliminating the context switches between transaction cycles. TBH, I don't know how the various SMP implementations would come into play here; specifically on the send/recv model I would expect (assuming an idle system) that one half would be running on each CPU, ie. the long-term throughput would be that of the slowest component rather than of the system as a whole. In contrast, the lock-step model using semaphores basically ensures that a single client/server pair runs as a single logical thread. > Greg -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 01:08:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23055 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23048 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA09281; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:07:00 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:06:59 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Gary Clark II cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot In-Reply-To: <199704100626.BAA20409@main.gbdata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Gary Clark II wrote: > > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Pedro Giffuni wrote: > > > > > > B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His > > > complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the > > > beast). Other famous terms: > > > MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 > > > Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 > > Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" > for english gematria. > > > > > well i guess that confirms what i suspected all along. ;) > > playing(?) with sums formed from letters is a very old > > practice. in hebrew every letter is also a number so no > > translation table is required. the sequence for the letters > > runs 1, 2, 3, ... 9, 10, 20, ... 100, 200, 300, 400. no > > 0. 400 is the last leter of the alphabet (alef bet, are > > the first two letters of the alphabet[a]) numbers larger > You are confusing Hebrew and Greek:) ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > than 400 are fomed by repeating 400, etc...well i guess > > that i have rambled enough. > > It is called gematria. > I thought it started with Aleph at 1 and ended with Tzaddi(final) at 900. > Yes all the numbers above 400 are final letters, so may not be used in > all dialects (I only know one in a very limited way...). Well, I'll take the role of the native Hebrew speaker on the list... Jonathan was *almost* correct. The numbers go 1..10, then 10..90 and then 100..400. Final letters are counted just as normal letters, because final letters were introduced into the Hebrew writing at a very late stage (long after gematria was). The incorrect part is about numbers > 400. Numbers from 400 to 1000 are formed by repeating the 100..400 letters. However, when using Hebrew letters to write numbers the thousands are counted differently, expressly saying thousands, so for example 5757 (the current Jewish year) is expressed as 5 thousands, 400+300+50+7 when written in Hebrew letters, though normally for dates the thousands digit is implicit (the Jewish millenium is still >200 years in the future, so there are no giant cobol hacking projects to correct software that assume the thousands digit is always 5 :-) ). > > > > > jmb > > > > Gary > > -- > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company > gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team > Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information > FreeBSD FAQat ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 > Nadav From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 01:26:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23725 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papillon.lemis.de ([203.239.92.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA23720; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id RAA01491; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:25:40 +0900 (KST) From: grog@lemis.de Message-Id: <199704100825.RAA01491@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Informix efficiency--any ideas? In-Reply-To: <199704100747.RAA01734@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Apr 10, 97 05:17:34 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:25:40 +0900 (KST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/~grog X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > grog@lemis.de stands accused of saying: >> >> We did some examination and found that the port of Informix on A >> performs 21729 system calls to insert 5000 records into a table. Of >> these, 21403 calls are to semsys. B performs approximately half this >> number of calls, equally split (what a surprise) between send() and >> recv(): although it's System V.4, it has a native sockets >> implementation. >> >> I'm obviously following this up with Informix and vendor A, but I'd be >> interested if anybody here had a view with a different bias. Do >> semaphores have to be so much less efficient, or could this just be a >> poor semxxx() implementation on A? > > I don't think it's that the semaphores are less efficient, but that there > is more semaphore activity required to transfer the given data. Sure, there's that. > At a guess, a record transaction with semaphores goes something like : > > writer puts data in shared memory area, raises 'data is there' semaphore. > reader wakes on semaphore, raises 'I am busy with your data' semaphore > reader finishes with data, lowers 'I am busy with your data' semaphore > writer wakes on semaphore, repeat. > > That's 4 system calls for a single transaction. > > With sockets, I would expect : > > writer calls send() with data, repeat > reader returns from recv() with data, repeat > > ie. two calls, and if socket buffering works the two will be decoupled > as well, reducing the impact of the (potentially) less efficient > send/recv by eliminating the context switches between transaction > cycles. Well, that's the question. This particular program ran for 2 minutes on platform A, and one minute on platform B, a pretty constant rate of 175 system calls per second on both, not exactly likely to swap a machine of this class. This suggests to me that there's something seriously wrong somewhere. > TBH, I don't know how the various SMP implementations would come into > play here; specifically on the send/recv model I would expect > (assuming an idle system) that one half would be running on each CPU, > ie. the long-term throughput would be that of the slowest component > rather than of the system as a whole. In contrast, the lock-step > model using semaphores basically ensures that a single client/server > pair runs as a single logical thread. Now that's an interesting thought. Basically, the socket implementation doesn't even need to be as fast as the semaphore implementation (*if* you're restricting your semaphore counter to 1. IIRC, you can have more than one on System V), since it can queue. That might explain why we were getting up to 30% idle on System A. In the meantime, we have found some more documentation. It seems that there are "protocols" for talking to the server. One is called tlitcp, and the other is called ipcshm. System A was using ipcshm, and system B was using tlitcp, so now we're repeting a (longer, more accurate) benchmark the other way round. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 03:07:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA26824 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26819 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA24611; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:07:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id MAA07601; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:23:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:23:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199704101023.MAA07601@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: de-bsd-chat@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSDers met in Berlin yesterday Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear FreeBSDers, Just want to thank the Berlin FreeBSDers (a small selection of a sure larger community) for the enjoying evening we had yesterday. We met in Udo Wolters Band's rehearsal room in Berlin Kreuzberg, Urbanstrasse. Sure a very original meeting point. Music was nice to listen to, but FreeBSD specific matters we were unable to discuss due to high level of their amps volume. For a listening probe also see: LOW-TECH Page: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uwp/low-tech.html We listened to the band playing a selection of their repertoire and then we all went to have a nice night meal in a chinese restaurant round the corner. Signed present were Slavan Rezic (eserte@cs.tu-berlin.de) Udo Wolter (uwp@cs.tu-berlin.de) Thomas Gebhard (gepard@cs.tu-berlin.de) (a yet to be converted linux user :-) Wolfram Schneider (wosch@freebsd.org) Christoph Kukulies (kuku@freebsd.org) Thanks for an enjoying evening during my stay at the CHEP97 conference on Computing in High Energy Physics in Berlin from April 7-11 where I held the FreeBSD banner high and and showed other physicists from all over the world, SLAC, FNAL, CERN, DESY and other institutions that there's also "life in other galaxies". -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 03:40:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA28242 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA28236; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199704101040.DAA28236@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704100626.BAA20409@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Apr 10, 97 01:26:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Clark II wrote: > > > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Pedro Giffuni wrote: > > > > > > B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His > > > complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the > > > beast). Other famous terms: > > > MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 > > > Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 > > Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" > for english gematria. > > > > > well i guess that confirms what i suspected all along. ;) > > playing(?) with sums formed from letters is a very old > > practice. in hebrew every letter is also a number so no > > translation table is required. the sequence for the letters > > runs 1, 2, 3, ... 9, 10, 20, ... 100, 200, 300, 400. no > > 0. 400 is the last leter of the alphabet (alef bet, are > > the first two letters of the alphabet[a]) numbers larger > You are confusing Hebrew and Greek:) ^^^^^^^^^^^ hebrew greek 1st letter alef alpha 2nd letter bet beta alefbet alphabeta confused? > > > than 400 are fomed by repeating 400, etc...well i guess > > that i have rambled enough. > > It is called gematria. > I thought it started with Aleph at 1 and ended with Tzaddi(final) at 900. > Yes all the numbers above 400 are final letters, so may not be used in > all dialects (I only know one in a very limited way...). could be, but the most common form ends with Taf (400). this year is 5757 --> Taf Shin Nun Zayin (400 300 50 7) the leading 5000 is implicit ;) jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 05:22:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA02397 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA02339 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA01326; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:20:04 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:20 EDT Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18377 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id HAA12711 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:54:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199704101154.HAA12711@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freebsd.org!chat Subject: Many Julians and Many Garys Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Reading the recent comments about too many Julians and too many Garys - I just had to relate this story. When I was about 11-12 years old; growing up in South Carolina, I went to a week-long summer camp. As I arrived at that small cottage that would be my shared cell for this ordeal, I introduced myself to the 8 or so other "campers", as Dave Rivers; simply to find that every one in the hovel was also named "Dave" - including the counselor. For an entire week, we had to choose alternate names - "Dave" was simply forbidden as untenable. I suppose someone had a good laugh over that. So - it seems it can get much worse before we need to resort to such drastic steps :-) - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 07:29:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA08362 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ingenieria ([168.176.15.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA08354 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co by ingenieria (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA09091; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:15:00 -0400 Message-ID: <334D0D24.23E4@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:54:12 -0700 From: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Clark II CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot References: <199704100626.BAA20409@main.gbdata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Clark II wrote: > > Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > Pedro Giffuni wrote: > > > > > > B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His > > > complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the > > > beast). Other famous terms: > > > MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 > > > Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 > > Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" > for english gematria. > ASCII code (I extracted this from the local newspaper), I guess the evil one doesn't have to follow a particular "standard" :) Pedro. > > Gary > > -- > Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company > gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team > Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information > FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 10:33:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19246 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19183; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA00860; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <334D2033.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:15:31 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org CC: "Julian H. Stacey" , Darren Reed , proff@suburbia.net, hackers@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, julian@freebsd.org, kaveman@magna.com.au Subject: Re: ipfilter-proff.shar.gz References: <3575.860641377@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > "Julian H. Stacey" wrote in message ID > <199704091733.TAA08869@desk.jhs.no_domain>: > > I had assumed you meant Elischer, but Gary Jennejohn (there are at least > > 3 Garys) told me you didn't mean Elischer, so maybe you meant Jenkins or > > Assange, or another new Julian ? > > There are WAY more than three Garys these, days, and everytime I read > a mail which blames a `Gary' for something I have to stop and think > ``was that me??''. It's enough to make a guy insecure! > > (Reply-To: set appropriately) > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info I've never been in a group with mor ethan 1 julian before.. it's kind of unique to have 3.5 of us floating around.. :) julian (E) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 11:32:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21902 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (news@haywire.dialix.com [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21893 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.8.4/8.8.2) id CAA01771 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:32:18 +0800 (WST) X-Authentication-Warning: haywire.DIALix.COM: news set sender to usenet-request@haywire.dialix.com using -f Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: 10 Apr 1997 18:32:17 GMT From: peter@spinner.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <860697137.872795@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Internet Services References: <199704101154.HAA12711@lakes.water.net> Subject: Re: Many Julians and Many Garys Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199704101154.HAA12711@lakes.water.net>, ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers) writes: > > Reading the recent comments about too many Julians and too > many Garys - I just had to relate this story. Heh, just try saying "John said <...>" within the core group and watch the "who me?"'s from John Dyson and/or John Polstra.. :-] Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 14:44:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02411 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02406 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01487; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:43:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Christoph Kukulies cc: de-bsd-chat@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDers met in Berlin yesterday In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:23:39 +0200." <199704101023.MAA07601@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:43:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1483.860708632@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We met in Udo Wolters Band's rehearsal room in Berlin Kreuzberg, > Urbanstrasse. Sure a very original meeting point. I'll bet! :-) > Music was nice to listen to, but FreeBSD specific matters And at this point, we know that Christoph is lying because I've heard some of this band's recordings and I don't think "nice" enters into the proper description anywhere (nor, I do believe, is it supposed to). . :-) :-) > We listened to the band playing a selection of their > repertoire and then we all went to have a nice night meal > in a chinese restaurant round the corner. Where you probably still couldn't talk on account of the fact that all of you were now totally deaf. ;-) [Ooh, Udo is going to get me for all of this, I just know it ;) ] > Thanks for an enjoying evening during my stay at the CHEP97 > conference on Computing in High Energy Physics in Berlin from April 7-11 > where I held the FreeBSD banner high and and showed other > physicists from all over the world, SLAC, FNAL, CERN, DESY > and other institutions that there's also "life in other galaxies". Great!! Thanks for both the evanglism and the report! Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 16:00:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA06560 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bloke.statsci.com (bloke.statsci.com [206.63.206.184]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06524 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bloke.statsci.com [206.63.206.184] with smtp by bloke.statsci.com with smtp (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.3 #3) id m0wFSos-000QdNC; Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:59 PDT Message-Id: X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfilter-proff.shar.gz References: <3575.860641377@orion.webspan.net> In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 1997 23:02:57 -0400." <3575.860641377@orion.webspan.net> Reply-to: scott@statsci.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:59:54 -0700 From: Scott Blachowicz Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Gary Palmer" wrote: > There are WAY more than three Garys these, days, and everytime I read > a mail which blames a `Gary' for something I have to stop and think > ``was that me??''. It's enough to make a guy insecure! I don't know...this discussion seems to just be begging for someone to go grab the From: headers on the messages in the archives, extract the unique full names then do a frequency count on first names...or something like that :-)) Scott Blachowicz Ph: 206/283-8802x240 Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div) 1700 Westlake Ave N #500 scott@statsci.com Seattle, WA USA 98109 Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 17:50:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14868 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brickbat9.mindspring.com (brickbat9.mindspring.com [207.69.200.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14863 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by brickbat9.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01548; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970411004949.009ef1cc@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:49:49 -0400 To: Julian Elischer From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: ipfilter-proff.shar.gz Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:15 AM 4/10/97 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: >Gary Palmer wrote: >> >> "Julian H. Stacey" wrote in message ID >> <199704091733.TAA08869@desk.jhs.no_domain>: >> > I had assumed you meant Elischer, but Gary Jennejohn (there are at least >> > 3 Garys) told me you didn't mean Elischer, so maybe you meant Jenkins or >> > Assange, or another new Julian ? >> >> There are WAY more than three Garys these, days, and everytime I read >> a mail which blames a `Gary' for something I have to stop and think >> ``was that me??''. It's enough to make a guy insecure! >> >I've never been in a group with mor ethan 1 julian before.. >it's kind of unique to have 3.5 of us floating around.. > > >:) >julian (E) Could be worse: There are two other "Kevin Neal"s near me, and I don't know them. It's very annoying because I get their phone calls. I also know much about them: One of them is a frat boy (and a drummer), one is a trombone player in the marching band at NCSU, one just bought a car a couple of months ago. One of them worked at IBM when I did -- my second week on the job and I'm getting calls for the other Kevin. One of them goes to the same clinic as me, but has a different doctor. I should just get their phone numbers and redirect people who call me wanting the other ones. CC line trimmed to just chat@freebsd.org, which BTW I am not subscribed to. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu " *** StarDOS makes great coffee! ***" XCOMM From a mid-80's advertisement in "Compute's GAZETTE", a C64/C128 mag From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 10 19:12:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA19930 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19897 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA08433; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:41:46 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704110211.LAA08433@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Informix efficiency--any ideas? In-Reply-To: <199704100825.RAA01491@papillon.lemis.de> from "grog@lemis.de" at "Apr 10, 97 05:25:40 pm" To: grog@lemis.de Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:41:45 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk grog@lemis.de stands accused of saying: > > > TBH, I don't know how the various SMP implementations would come into > > play here; specifically on the send/recv model I would expect > > (assuming an idle system) that one half would be running on each CPU, > > ie. the long-term throughput would be that of the slowest component > > rather than of the system as a whole. In contrast, the lock-step > > model using semaphores basically ensures that a single client/server > > pair runs as a single logical thread. > > Now that's an interesting thought. Basically, the socket > implementation doesn't even need to be as fast as the semaphore > implementation (*if* you're restricting your semaphore counter to 1. > IIRC, you can have more than one on System V), since it can queue. > That might explain why we were getting up to 30% idle on System A. I would expect that the server would only use multiple semaphores if it could guarantee the order in which it woke on them, as otherwise there could be problems with transaction ordering. > In the meantime, we have found some more documentation. It seems that > there are "protocols" for talking to the server. One is called > tlitcp, and the other is called ipcshm. System A was using ipcshm, > and system B was using tlitcp, so now we're repeting a (longer, more > accurate) benchmark the other way round. I would expect that the TLI/TCP interface will be much more efficient in the SMP context than the IPC/SHM interface, simply because by nature it will offer better decoupling between the client and server. Could be wrong, of course 8) It would be _very_ informative to be able to run this benchmark on a well-configured SMP FreeBSD system, as I understand that Informix runs well under the SCO emulation. I would imagine that the SMP Mips systems you are looking at would be a lot more expensive 8) > Greg (ps. what do you think of Viewsonic's 21" monitors? They're reasonably available around here...) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 11 00:36:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA02460 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02456 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blasuarr.cs.tu-berlin.de (uwp@blasuarr.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.114]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10439; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:36:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Udo Wolter Received: (from uwp@localhost) by blasuarr.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11966; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:36:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199704110736.JAA11966@blasuarr.cs.tu-berlin.de> Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:36:11 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: de-bsd-chat@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9704102149.AA26155@gatekeeper.ukrv.de> from "Mail Delivery Subsystem" at Apr 10, 97 11:49:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! > > We met in Udo Wolters Band's rehearsal room in Berlin Kreuzberg, > > Urbanstrasse. Sure a very original meeting point. > > I'll bet! :-) Hey, this is the only room I know of where it's raining sometimes...:-( > > Music was nice to listen to, but FreeBSD specific matters > > And at this point, we know that Christoph is lying because I've heard > some of this band's recordings and I don't think "nice" enters into > the proper description anywhere (nor, I do believe, is it supposed > to). . :-) :-) ??? We make nice and lovely music ! Example ? Ok, here's one sentence of our song Quicky: Love, Peace and Harmony So what ? We're a Hippie band indeed ! :-))) > > We listened to the band playing a selection of their > > repertoire and then we all went to have a nice night meal > > in a chinese restaurant round the corner. > > Where you probably still couldn't talk on account of the fact > that all of you were now totally deaf. ;-) > > [Ooh, Udo is going to get me for all of this, I just know it ;) ] Hae ? What did you write ? :-)) > > Thanks for an enjoying evening during my stay at the CHEP97 > > conference on Computing in High Energy Physics in Berlin from April 7-11 > > where I held the FreeBSD banner high and and showed other > > physicists from all over the world, SLAC, FNAL, CERN, DESY > > and other institutions that there's also "life in other galaxies". > > Great!! Thanks for both the evanglism and the report! Yeah, FreeBSD and other galaxies... Bye, Udo -- Udo Wolter, email: uwp@cs.tu-berlin.de, www: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uwp/ !!! LOW-TECH Page: http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uwp/low-tech.html !!! From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 11 02:02:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05558 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05550 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA16653; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:02:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Udo Wolter cc: de-bsd-chat@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:36:11 +0200." <199704110736.JAA11966@blasuarr.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:02:11 -0700 Message-ID: <16650.860749331@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ??? We make nice and lovely music ! Example ? Ok, here's one sentence of our > song Quicky: > > Love, Peace and Harmony > > So what ? We're a Hippie band indeed ! :-))) Uh huh, sure. Show us the rest of the lyrics, Udo! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 11 20:24:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10725 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10720 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.23]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17830 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) with SMTP id XAA16440 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:24:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: professor.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:24:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: weird cable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Someone just dumped a couple of interesting-looking computers on me, and they're both one cable short of working, so I thought I'd ask around and see if anyone has ever hear of this fairly weird one. The computers are DEC 5000-120's, they both have 19" color monitors (which makes them dandy for working into my FreeBSD box!) but they both need thos odd cable that combines the mouse and the keyboard (and a B/W monitor cable, which I won't use) into one, umm, I think 15 pin D connector. I need two of these weird cables. Anyone know where they could be gotten? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 09:14:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09059 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09054 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA21905; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:12:49 -0700 (PDT) To: Jamie Bowden cc: proff@suburbia.net, Michael Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Virutal Interfaces how ?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:45:53 EDT." Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <21901.860861569@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ifconfig de0 666.666.666.666 alias delete "The alias of the beast" I like it. :-) [Though my personal favorite remains: "668 - Next door neighbor of the beast"] Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 10:51:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13249 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu (joelh@diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA13238 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id NAA20748; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:49:04 -0400 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:49:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199704121749.NAA20748@diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com CC: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199704100626.BAA20409@main.gbdata.com> (message from Gary Clark II on Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:26:55 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His >> > complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the >> > beast). Other famous terms: >> > MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 >> > Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 >Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" >for english gematria. ASCII. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 10:53:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13359 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu (joelh@diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA13353 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id NAA20756; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:51:53 -0400 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:51:53 -0400 Message-Id: <199704121751.NAA20756@diazepam.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co CC: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <334D0D24.23E4@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> (message from Pedro Giffuni on Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:54:12 -0700) Subject: Re: BSD's Mascot From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>> B,66; I,73; L,76; L,76; G,71; A,65; T,84; E,69; S,83 and a 3 (His >>>> complete second name is Gates III) it all adds 666 (the number of the >>>> beast). Other famous terms: >>>> MS DOS 6.21 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54 = 666 >>>> Windows 95 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 >> Where are you getting your number system from? I've never seen a "standard" >> for english gematria. > ASCII code (I extracted this from the local newspaper), I guess the evil > one doesn't have to follow a particular "standard" :) I'm actually suprised he didn't follow IBM's lead and come up with his own character code. (We have yet to see full Unicode acceptance though... fear springs eternal...) -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 13:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21022 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA21017 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA08334 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:51:35 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA08676; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:24:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970412222407.QE01851@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:24:07 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml References: <199704111004.DAA08299@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199704111004.DAA08299@freefall.freebsd.org>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Apr 11, 1997 03:04:54 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > jkh 97/04/11 03:04:51 > > Branch: share/doc/handbook RELENG_2_2 ^^^^^^^^^^ Are you going to merge this? > Modified: share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml > Log: > Ulf has now also donated the case for "the new freefall" - amend his > entry accordingly. Oh, freefall is no longer in this ugly little mini-tower now? :-) After i've seen it there last year, i told David (G.) that it's been a rather de-impressive view. (Except of the constantly flickering SCSI LED, of course.) David's words were: ``Well, you could even say `depressive'.'' :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 15:19:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26504 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26492 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA07800; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:19:02 -0700 (PDT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:24:07 +0200." <19970412222407.QE01851@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:19:02 -0700 Message-ID: <7797.860883542@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > jkh 97/04/11 03:04:51 > > > > Branch: share/doc/handbook RELENG_2_2 > ^^^^^^^^^^ Are you going to merge this? Oh barf. Yeah. Sigh. Having my /usr/src checked out at RELENG_2_2 is really getting annoying, but I can't afford to break myself with -current yet (damn thing doesn't even release build). > Oh, freefall is no longer in this ugly little mini-tower now? :-) It still is - the machine hasn't yet been built, but it will be soon. > After i've seen it there last year, i told David (G.) that it's been a > rather de-impressive view. (Except of the constantly flickering SCSI > LED, of course.) David's words were: ``Well, you could even say > `depressive'.'' Yeah, I was similarly ``de-impressed'' when I first saw it. The new freefall will be a very impressive PC. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 15:51:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA28419 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28412 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA09861 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:51:44 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28909; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:30:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970413003027.WB08311@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:30:27 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml References: <19970412222407.QE01851@uriah.heep.sax.de> <7797.860883542@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <7797.860883542@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Apr 12, 1997 15:19:02 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: (freefall's appearance) > Yeah, I was similarly ``de-impressed'' when I first saw it. The new > freefall will be a very impressive PC. :-) Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! (Well, i found it at least funny to finally see the pic of wcarchive.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 16:33:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00559 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.ucdavis.edu [128.120.175.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00542 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (reqd-099.ucdavis.edu [128.120.251.219]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02764; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:39:26 GMT Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA16428; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:32:43 GMT Message-ID: <19970412163243.15639@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:32:43 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: FreeBSD chat list Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml References: <19970412222407.QE01851@uriah.heep.sax.de> <7797.860883542@time.cdrom.com> <19970413003027.WB08311@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19970413003027.WB08311@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sun, Apr 13, 1997 at 12:30:27AM +0200 X-Warning: Mutt Bites! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE Organization: The NUXI *BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! > > (Well, i found it at least funny to finally see the pic of wcarchive.) Hey man! :-) Are these Net available??? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 17:52:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06500 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06489 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA11841 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:52:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA15939; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:22:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970413022257.FP37376@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:22:57 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml References: <19970412222407.QE01851@uriah.heep.sax.de> <7797.860883542@time.cdrom.com> <19970413003027.WB08311@uriah.heep.sax.de> <19970412163243.15639@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19970412163243.15639@dragon.nuxi.com>; from David O'Brien on Apr 12, 1997 16:32:43 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David O'Brien wrote: > > (Well, i found it at least funny to finally see the pic of wcarchive.) > > Hey man! :-) Are these Net available??? Sure, on www.cdrom.com. There's an option to look at the server configuration (used to be there for quite some time now), and last time i was looking, i've been surprised to see a photo now as well. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 17:52:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06518 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06508 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA11844; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:52:52 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA15965; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:35:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970413023502.KS29777@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:35:02 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Subject: Re: ipfilter-proff.shar.gz References: <1.5.4.32.19970411004949.009ef1cc@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970411004949.009ef1cc@mindspring.com>; from Kevin P. Neal on Apr 10, 1997 20:49:49 -0400 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kevin P. Neal wrote: (Story about too many Kevin Neals...) > I should just get their phone numbers and redirect people who call > me wanting the other ones. Hey, procmail for your phone -- ain't that the solution? :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 20:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11909 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11904 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA02727; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704130301.UAA02727@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD chat list) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:22:57 +0200." <19970413022257.FP37376@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:01:49 -0700 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As David O'Brien wrote: > >> > (Well, i found it at least funny to finally see the pic of wcarchive.) >> >> Hey man! :-) Are these Net available??? > >Sure, on www.cdrom.com. There's an option to look at the server >configuration (used to be there for quite some time now), and last >time i was looking, i've been surprised to see a photo now as well. Yeah, I took the picture last year with a Polaroid One Step that I purchased just before boarding the plane to SF. It had to be doctored up a bit before being suitable for mass viewing. The picture is actually out of date now; I switched out the old 5.25" drive bay (bottom of the rack in the picture) with another Kingston 3.5" drive array (which contains modern 9.1GB ultra-wide drives). The machine is going to be moved into a new machine room in a few weeks, which will make the picture even less relevant...but perhaps I can take another picture after the move. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 12 21:50:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15511 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15506 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA16494; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:50:42 -0700 (PDT) To: "David O'Brien" cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD chat list Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/doc/handbook submitters.sgml In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:32:43 PDT." <19970412163243.15639@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:50:41 -0700 Message-ID: <16491.860907041@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! > > > > (Well, i found it at least funny to finally see the pic of wcarchive.) > > Hey man! :-) Are these Net available??? At www.cdrom.com, under "archive" Jordan