From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 03:40:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04925 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04894 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-33.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.33]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA10664 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:40:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA25706 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:33:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709140933.EAA25706@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Testimonial In-reply-to: Message from Wolfram Schneider of "13 Sep 1997 13:23:08 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:33:38 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Schneider writes: > > Peter Korsten writes: > > > > c't is a German computer magazine, sort of like what Byte was in the old > > > > days I believe. > > It's something like the phonebook of one of the more rural phone > > districts in the Netherlands, but then every month. Hundreds of > > pages of information - and advertisements, of course. > > The c't April issue (CeBIT) had 614 pages. Too big for many > mailboxes. Since 13 October 1997 the c't will be published biweekly. Sounds like if the publisher of Byte wanted to make a Real Magazine out if it again, he'd hire a bunch of translators and strike a deal with c't. I'd prefer c't hire the translators themselves and publish under their own name. I don't trust Byte anymore, not for a long time. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 14:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01287 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (mod5.logic.it [195.120.151.21] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01272 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 185 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Sep 1997 21:15:36 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:15:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <199709140933.EAA25706@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: [..] > Sounds like if the publisher of Byte wanted to make a Real > Magazine out if it again, he'd hire a bunch of translators and > strike a deal with c't. > I'd prefer c't hire the translators themselves and publish under > their own name. I don't trust Byte anymore, not for a long time. Me too. Seriously, from what I've read on this list, c't seems very good. I suggest to put up a lobby among we FreeBSDers and let c't people know that we are interested in an english version. I think many other people (eg some Linux people, some BeOS people) can be very interested in it. Perhaps we could post some "call for lobbying" ;-) on the relevant newsgroups/mailing lists. Marco Molteni Computer Science student at the Universita' degli studi di Milano, Italy. UNIX _is_ user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 17:00:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12336 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12331 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA16419; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:29:52 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970915092951.42342@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:29:51 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Marco Molteni Cc: ct@ct.heise.de, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <199709140933.EAA25706@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Marco Molteni on Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 11:15:35PM +0200 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 11:15:35PM +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > [..] > >> Sounds like if the publisher of Byte wanted to make a Real >> Magazine out if it again, he'd hire a bunch of translators and >> strike a deal with c't. >> I'd prefer c't hire the translators themselves and publish under >> their own name. I don't trust Byte anymore, not for a long time. > > Me too. Seriously, from what I've read on this list, c't seems very > good. I suggest to put up a lobby among we FreeBSDers and let c't > people know that we are interested in an english version. I think > many other people (eg some Linux people, some BeOS people) can be > very interested in it. I think the real problem is that a lot of c't's editorial content is related to Germany. Looking at the September issue (436 pages), I'd guess that about 20% of the material (such as the ISP review they're planning to make a regular feature) is of little interest outside Germany. The ads are even less interesting, but I suppose they could find other advertisers for an international edition. Don't expect everything to be of interest, of course. A lot of the editorial content is related to Microsoft. In fact, they have a sister publication, iX, which deals with UNIX, but it's not nearly of the same quality as c't. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 17:54:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15903 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15896 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (max7-230.HiWAAY.net [208.147.145.230]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA08740; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:53:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA01699; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:53:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709150053.TAA01699@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Marco Molteni cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Testimonial In-reply-to: Message from Marco Molteni of "Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:15:35 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:53:21 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marco Molteni writes: > > On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > [..] > > > Sounds like if the publisher of Byte wanted to make a Real > > Magazine out if it again, he'd hire a bunch of translators and > > strike a deal with c't. > > I'd prefer c't hire the translators themselves and publish under > > their own name. I don't trust Byte anymore, not for a long time. > > Me too. Seriously, from what I've read on this list, c't seems very > good. I suggest to put up a lobby among we FreeBSDers and let c't > people know that we are interested in an english version. I think > many other people (eg some Linux people, some BeOS people) can be > very interested in it. > > Perhaps we could post some "call for lobbying" ;-) on the relevant > newsgroups/mailing lists. I suspect the best thing would be to frequent the english articles posted on their web site. The fact people bother to hunt them down and read their stuff would be the best way to indicate a demand for their product. Don't know how much good English would do for Marco in Itay, but he sure handles English better than I would Italian. About all the Italian I know are "Ferrari" and "Michael Schumacher". :-) Had c't's URL once but can't find it now. Hint? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 18:13:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16867 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16853 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (ip236-113.cc.interlog.com [207.34.236.113]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with SMTP id VAA15451 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> X-Sender: paulg@interlog.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:14:05 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Paul Griffith Subject: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am writing this because, I am currently a Sr. Service Technician for Micro Warehouse Canada Ltd. (Mac Warehouse, InMac, Notebook Store), looking to make the move over to the Unix System Admin. side. I plan to start with UNIX, and also get certified for Windows NT. I know this doesn't happen over nigh, and it takes a long time. I hope you can assist me, I have but a few questions to ask you: 1) Can you recommend any UNIX training centers that are recognized by the industry ? ( I am currently enrolled in a UNIX System Admin. course at a local College - Centennial College ) 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? I also welcome any and all advice you can give me, Thank You very much in advance. Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 18:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17418 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17413 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA19001; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970915105332.48667@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:32 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Cc: Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <199709150053.TAA01699@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709150053.TAA01699@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from dkelly@hiwaay.net on Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 07:53:21PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 07:53:21PM -0500, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > Don't know how much good English would do for Marco in Itay, but he > sure handles English better than I would Italian. About all the Italian > I know are "Ferrari" and "Michael Schumacher". :-) And I thought Schumacher was German... > Had c't's URL once but can't find it now. Hint? http://www.heise.de/ct/english Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 18:50:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18608 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18598 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA20155; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:20:06 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970915112005.17058@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:20:05 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Paul Griffith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com>; from Paul Griffith on Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 09:14:05PM -0400 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 09:14:05PM -0400, Paul Griffith wrote: > > 1) Can you recommend any UNIX training centers that are recognized by the > industry ? No. > 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell > scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? Yes. It'll also stand you in better stead if you want to change jobs :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 18:59:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA19005 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elmira.functional.com (elmira.functional.com [198.82.216.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18998 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grail@localhost) by elmira.functional.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10141; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:01:07 GMT Message-ID: <19970915020106.21020@functional.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:01:06 +0000 From: Giao Nguyen To: Paul Griffith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com>; from Paul Griffith on Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 09:14:05PM -0400 X-Saying: Maniacal laughter is the best medicine. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Griffith said: > I am writing this because, I am currently a Sr. Service Technician for > Micro Warehouse Canada Ltd. (Mac Warehouse, InMac, Notebook Store), > looking to make the move over to the Unix System Admin. side. I plan to > start with UNIX, and also get certified for Windows NT. Looks like the right way to go =) > I know this doesn't happen over nigh, and it takes a long time. I hope you > can assist me, I have but a few questions to ask you: > > > 1) Can you recommend any UNIX training centers that are recognized by the > industry ? > ( I am currently enrolled in a UNIX System Admin. course at a local College > - Centennial College ) I don't know of any however, I am of the mind set that you can't be a good admin for any given systems without year(s) of slaving away at it. Unix is something of a mindset too. You need to be able to think in the the Unix constraints/freedrom. There is also the right way and the wrong way. Most courses can't teach you that. Also in the mix is the usual headache of compatibility between systems. > 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell > scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? Erm. Those tools are helpful on all unix systems. The vendors usually give you some sort of tools but still a little scripting goes a long way. -- Giao Nguyen 540-231-7948 FIS Technologies Software Design and Network Solutions From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 19:27:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20408 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20403 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (mfd-dial2-29.cybercom.net [209.21.137.61]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA29312 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:25:21 -0400 To: chat@freebsd.org From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: language choices on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <398.874278327@time.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:05 PM 9/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >> yes jordan, people still do use fortran... please keep them... > >You haven't answered my question at all. I've no doubt that people >still use fortran, that was not my question. Is there anybody out there using FreeBSD as a platform for FORTRAN? What languages are people programming in out there on FreeBSD? (Just out of curiosity.) K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 19:41:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21147 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21141 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (mfd-dial2-29.cybercom.net [209.21.137.61]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00138; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970914223953.009dc380@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:39:53 -0400 To: Paul Griffith From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19970915020106.21020@functional.com> References: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:01 AM 9/15/97 +0000, Giao Nguyen wrote: >Paul Griffith said: >> 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell >> scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? > >Erm. Those tools are helpful on all unix systems. The vendors usually >give you some sort of tools but still a little scripting goes a long >way. I think that it's good to start learning tools generally, i.e., become a knowledgable UNIX user. There's lots of good books that can get you started. But for ascending to the level of System Administrator, there's nothing that can replace good old fashioned hands-on experience. I was familiar enough with UNIX to do lots of common chores (edit and move files, run scripts, read e-mail, etc.), but my knowledge increased exponentially after I had set up my own Linux and FreeBSD boxes at home. I probably could have learned just as much at my office, but you'd be surprised at how adamantly opposed most SysAdmins are to the idea of giving users the root password so that they can experiment and learn. ;-) I also agree with Giao that it takes time with a particular system (read--time to see and fix a lot of problems on that system) to develop proficiency. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 19:55:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21961 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21952 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 27968 on Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:55:31 GMT; id CAA27968 efrom: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl; eto: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: (from peter@localhost) by grendel.IAEhv.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00466; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970913222119.64065@grendel.IAEhv.nl> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:21:19 +0200 From: Peter Korsten To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <19970912010929.22227@wakky.dyn.ml.org> <19970913001430.20979@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <19970913151322.NK52478@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.67e In-Reply-To: <19970913151322.NK52478@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sat, Sep 13, 1997 at 03:13:22PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch shared with us: > As Peter Korsten wrote: > > > I'm not sure, but I think c't means something like 'Computer-Technik' > > - though they'd normally say 'Komputer'. Perhaps I should check. > > No German i've ever seen would spell it with a K. Then I guess I've been reading the wrong magazines. Perhaps I should have been reading "Bravo" instead of computer magazines; it could have made a difference in social skills. :) > > You could also learn German. :) You'd only have get to get used to > > the rather typical German habit of translating every computer- > > related word. > > Hey, c'mon. The slavic languages translate way more stuff. :-) Or at Even more? My reference is mainly the Amiga Magazine of Markt&Technik, plus a bit of c't and Chip (don't know whether that still exists, it used to be some kind of German Byte). About the only think they'd didn't translate was 'gadget', simply because there wasn't a suitable translatation, except for perhaps 'dingsda'. > least, they spell it how it's spoken. One of the weirst things i've > seen 10 years ago was the Russian spelling of BASIC. German is now > actually swamped by English vocabulary, not only in the computer > language. It's already beginning to be embarassing, and English is > quite often now called `Neudeutsch'. Ah, it could be worse. One country to the west, for instance. (For the geographically impaired, that's the Netherlands.) Sometimes I have to point out to people that there are actually Dutch words for what they're saying. And on my business cards, I will be called 'IT consultant'. (Which is a bunch of crap, because I'm a programmer, but who'd want to talk to just a programmer?) It's very bad in my line of business. In Belgium it's even more weird. On the one had, there's a contro- versy between the Dutch speaking (Flemish) and French speaking (Wallonian) parts of the country. On the other hand, there's a trend to replace original Dutch words by 'Dutchified' words that come from, right, French. One funny anecdote from having trouble with foreign languages comes from fireworks from the Far East. Instead of 'Vuurwerk niet in de hand houden' it said 'Vuurwerk niet in de hond houden'. So, instead of saying 'Don't hold the fireworks in your hand' it said 'Don't hold the fireworks in your dog'. - Peter From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 20:06:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22786 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saffron.fsl.noaa.gov (saffron.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.253.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22777 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by saffron.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04566; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <341CA62F.59B409AD@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:06:23 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Classiest Man Alive CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: language choices on FreeBSD References: <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there anybody out there using FreeBSD as a platform for FORTRAN? What > languages are people programming in out there on FreeBSD? (Just out of > curiosity.) My wife occasionally uses Fortran and IDL on FreeBSD. I regularly use Java, C++, C, Tcl, and sh. --k From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 20:52:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24826 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24820 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA29504; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:52:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Paul Griffith cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, Paul Griffith wrote: > I am writing this because, I am currently a Sr. Service Technician for > Micro Warehouse Canada Ltd. (Mac Warehouse, InMac, Notebook Store), > looking to make the move over to the Unix System Admin. side. I plan to > start with UNIX, and also get certified for Windows NT. > > I know this doesn't happen over nigh, and it takes a long time. I hope you > can assist me, I have but a few questions to ask you: > > > 1) Can you recommend any UNIX training centers that are recognized by the > industry ? > ( I am currently enrolled in a UNIX System Admin. course at a local College > - Centennial College ) > > > 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell > scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? > > I also welcome any and all advice you can give me, There are very different flavors of Unix, that are fairly distinct. It's probably fair to say that the top level breakdown is between the AT&T SVR4 type, and the BSD4.4 type. You have to understand that they borrow from each other heavily, and often in the borrowing get things badly screwed up. There are a plethora of differences in other versions, but the largest differences are between those 2 I listed above, and previous versions of those systems. You _should_ learn at least one Unix from both of those categories, but do one at a time. Choose one to get reasonably good at, and don't move to another until you can do basic emergency recovery (playing with disks and mount tools and processes). Porting software is one hell of a good way to learn the programming differences, but probably not so good at teaching sys admin-ship. Haunt FreeBSD-questions, good place to learn answers. > > > Thank You very much in advance. > Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 14 22:36:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01141 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01133 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (lot.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [203.20.121.21]) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21851 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:05:42 +0930 (CST) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00373; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:01:33 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709150531.PAA00373@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: language choices on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:25:21 -0400." <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:01:32 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >You haven't answered my question at all. I've no doubt that people > >still use fortran, that was not my question. > > Is there anybody out there using FreeBSD as a platform for FORTRAN? What > languages are people programming in out there on FreeBSD? (Just out of > curiosity.) Here we are using C, Tcl, FORTRAN, IDL & sh. We've just undertaken a joint venture which will probably see several modules written in FORTRAN exhibiting heavy code reuse (probably upwards of 50,000 lines of code). mike From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 04:54:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA24246 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de [160.45.24.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA24241 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (193.174.9.9) with smtp id ; Mon, 15 Sep 97 13:54 MEST Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for ksmm@cybercom.NET id ; Mon, 15 Sep 97 13:54 MET DST Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14608; Mon, 15 Sep 97 11:52:28 +0200 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 11:52:28 +0200 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9709150952.AA14608@wavehh.hanse.de> To: ksmm@cybercom.NET Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: language choices on FreeBSD Newsgroups: hanse-ml.freebsd.chat References: <398.874278327@time.cdrom.com> <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> yes jordan, people still do use fortran... please keep them... >> >>You haven't answered my question at all. I've no doubt that people >>still use fortran, that was not my question. >Is there anybody out there using FreeBSD as a platform for FORTRAN? What >languages are people programming in out there on FreeBSD? (Just out of >curiosity.) C :-) Seriously, since FreeBSD has virtually no commercial language implementations and most free most implementations run on all Unix derivates equally well, I think FreeBSD is not too much different from any other Unix derivates. Since the port system makes trying out new languages easier, FreeBSD maybe makes the range of interesting languages even bigger. Unique points for FreeBSD are: - Important network service (CVSup) implemented in Modula-3, and well-maitained Modula-3 port, probably in best shape of all M3 platform. - Using Tcl in the base system. - Currently the best x86 platform to run CMU Common Lisp. Overall, ANSI C clearly rules here :-) Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin.Cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ BSD User Group Hamburg/Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 10:03:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09650 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (mod13.logic.it [195.120.151.29] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA09630 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 688 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Sep 1997 13:35:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:35:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it To: FreeBSD Chat cc: ct@ct.heise.de Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <19970915092951.42342@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 1997, Marco Molteni wrote: > > > Me too. Seriously, from what I've read on this list, c't seems > > very good. I suggest to put up a lobby among we FreeBSDers > > and let c't people know that we are interested in an english > > version. I think many other people (eg some Linux people, some > > BeOS people) can be very interested in it. > > I think the real problem is that a lot of c't's editorial content > is related to Germany. Looking at the September issue (436 > pages), I'd guess that about 20% of the material (such as the ISP > review they're planning to make a regular feature) is of little > interest outside Germany. No problems here, since I'd prefer a ~200 pages issue rather than a ~450 one ;-). I don't mind paying 200 pages the same price as 400, *if* the 200 are worth it. > Don't expect everything to be of interest, of course. A lot of > the editorial content is related to Microsoft. This seems the price we have to pay for being in the western world ;-) > In fact, they have a sister publication, iX, which deals with > UNIX, but it's not nearly of the same quality as c't. It makes me think about a "Readers' Digest of C't & iX", what about it ? ;-) On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, David Kelly wrote: > Marco Molteni writes: > > > Perhaps we could post some "call for lobbying" ;-) on the > > relevant newsgroups/mailing lists. > > I suspect the best thing would be to frequent the english articles > posted on their web site. The fact people bother to hunt them down > and read their stuff would be the best way to indicate a demand > for their product. Yes, this could be an idea, although I do hate reading articles on my web browser instead of reading them on paper. Now that I think about it, the reason could be that I have a dial-up connection to the Internet and that here in Italy we pay urban calls on a per minute basis :-( > Don't know how much good English would do for Marco in Itay, but he > sure handles English better than I would Italian. Well, I do hope this is a compliment ;-). Maybe you David forget that *all* the documentation on FreeBSD and/or computer science is in english, so we "foreigners" have to know it. By the way, I like english, it's very terse compared to others languages. If I read a technical paper, I know about 98-99% of the words. If I read Time, well, I need a dictionary nearby, if I listen to an american, well, maybe one or two beers could help ... ;-) > About all the Italian I know are "Ferrari" and "Michael > Schumacher". :-) I can't believe you! What about pizza, spaghetti, paparazzo ? ;-) Marco Molteni Computer Science student at the Universita' degli studi di Milano, Italy. UNIX _is_ user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 16:05:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01605 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01596 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-232.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.232]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA32117; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:05:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA19082; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:05:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709152305.SAA19082@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Marco Molteni cc: FreeBSD Chat , ct@ct.heise.de From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Testimonial In-reply-to: Message from Marco Molteni of "Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:35:12 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:05:18 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marco Molteni wrote: > > > I suspect the best thing would be to frequent the english articles > > posted on their web site. The fact people bother to hunt them down > > and read their stuff would be the best way to indicate a demand > > for their product. > > Yes, this could be an idea, although I do hate reading articles on > my web browser instead of reading them on paper. Now that I think > about it, the reason could be that I have a dial-up connection to > the Internet and that here in Italy we pay urban calls on a per minute > basis :-( Well, you don't have to *read* them, just trip their counters. :-) I'm using a script and wget to yank Dilbert every day and file him away in my personal archive. Much faster than letting a browser do it, then manually saving the image. Much faster for viewing later, too. > > Don't know how much good English would do for Marco in Itay, but he > > sure handles English better than I would Italian. > > Well, I do hope this is a compliment ;-). Maybe you David forget > that *all* the documentation on FreeBSD and/or computer science is > in english, so we "foreigners" have to know it. > > By the way, I like english, it's very terse compared to others > languages. If I read a technical paper, I know about 98-99% of the words. > If I read Time, well, I need a dictionary nearby, if I listen to an > american, well, maybe one or two beers could help ... ;-) > > > About all the Italian I know are "Ferrari" and "Michael > > Schumacher". :-) > > I can't believe you! What about pizza, spaghetti, paparazzo ? ;-) I thought those were American fake-Italian? Besides, the F-1 races are shown here early Sunday mornings. Pancake time. A bit too early for pizza, unless its cold leftovers from Saturday night. Besides, *I* thought claiming "Michael Schumacher" was Italian was a good pun, considering we were talking about the *German* magazine c't. (FYI: Michael is German, except for tax purposes.) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 16:20:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02537 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02531 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA12783; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:50:14 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970916085013.01534@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:50:13 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Marco Molteni Cc: FreeBSD Chat , ct@ct.heise.de Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <19970915092951.42342@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Marco Molteni on Mon, Sep 15, 1997 at 03:35:12PM +0200 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Sep 15, 1997 at 03:35:12PM +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> In fact, they have a sister publication, iX, which deals with >> UNIX, but it's not nearly of the same quality as c't. > > It makes me think about a "Readers' Digest of C't & iX", what about > it ? ;-) As I said, the quality of iX isn't that great. I don't know if it would add anything. c't must have noticed that, too, because they carry articles on Linux and FreeBSD from time to time. > On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, David Kelly wrote: > >> Marco Molteni writes: >> >>> Perhaps we could post some "call for lobbying" ;-) on the >>> relevant newsgroups/mailing lists. >> >> I suspect the best thing would be to frequent the english articles >> posted on their web site. The fact people bother to hunt them down >> and read their stuff would be the best way to indicate a demand >> for their product. > > Yes, this could be an idea, although I do hate reading articles on > my web browser instead of reading them on paper. So print them. > Now that I think about it, the reason could be that I have a dial-up > connection to the Internet and that here in Italy we pay urban calls > on a per minute basis :-( My sympathies. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 20:11:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16350 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16343 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with ESMTP id XAA06480 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from paulg@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA25319 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709160311.XAA25319@shell1.interlog.com> From: Paul Griffith To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: (fwd) Newtl! Newton/UNIX Communications System Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -- forwarded message -- Path: news.interlog.com!news3.interlog.com!news.neca.com!iagnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.voicenet.com!gsl-penn-ns.gsl.net!news-stkh.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news3.funet.fi!news.funet.fi!news.cs.hut.fi!news.clinet.fi!liw.clinet.fi!not-for-mail From: aehall@netcom.com (yo) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: Newtl! Newton/UNIX Communications System Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:57:45 GMT Organization: are you kidding? Lines: 73 Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Lars Wirzenius) Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: liw.clinet.fi NNTP-Posting-User: liw Keywords: newton unix linux X-Server-Date: 15 Sep 1997 15:57:48 GMT Old-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:48:15 GMT X-No-Archive: yes X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP comp.os.linux.announce iQBVAwUBNB1a+ziesvPHtqnBAQH7gQIAs9n53BvxGtuJ9gEHOFT/1EIINx44auMK e4SlEiWCKpEyIE3ihBSBOYoQ4NLDfbGTDC2nJ5xAV22JeELwyETWgw== =Fh0U Xref: news.interlog.com comp.os.linux.announce:7627 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- FINALLY! A new version of NEWTL! The World's First Newton / UNIX Communications System! Automatically send email, print, and fax from your Newton's Mail, Print, and Fax Outboxes through your UNIX machine. Load packages onto your Newton from your UNIX system using your Newton's native Connection application! Check out the web site: http://www.tcel.com/~aehall/newtl/ I still don't have a NOS 2.x system, so I'd appreciate some feedback / help from those with 2.x systems. Does the new Newtl package loading software work correctly for 2.x systems? Do you have any Slurpee scripts to snag 2.x Outbox formats (i.e. Mail, Print, and Fax). Also, sunsite appears to be having trouble with their FTP server, so newtl will be placed in the /pub/Linux/Incoming directory as soon as sunsite is up again. Thanks! - -A Begin3 Title: Newtl Version: 2.00 Entered-date: 8 Sept 97 Description: Newton/UNIX Communications System! Send email, print, fax, and install packages between UNIX systems and Newtons. See http://www.tcel.com/~aehall/newtl/ Keywords: Newton Unix Linux connection Author: aehall@netcom.com (A. E. Hall) Maintained-by: aehall@netcom.com (A. E. Hall) Primary-site: http://www.tcel.com/~aehall/newtl/ 62kB newtl-2.00.tar.gz Alternate-site: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/apps/serialcomm/machines/ 62kB newtl-2.00.tar.gz Original-site: Platforms: gcc/g++ v2.7.2, tcl v7.6 tk v4.2 (optional) Copying-policy: GPL End - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/liw/lars-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/liw/linux/cola.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNB1a+YQRll5MupLRAQGqHQQArs14dznsiNKpcXSHqePSpypDHzLkh26c KNYpGRbTD2vmAm0Ez2HP8WpvQ3Tvq1xtAvydf5fm109IA9j9YbIgXVJvK3q8JANf 1hdFIGUzsHW3ng4im34r8BzPPQJ1oWTVaxcsG9WMGFfEfTxTFbsokkyG4+e1YGAv SdWy8NTOEKU= =P5Lu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- end of forwarded message -- -- Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 20:23:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16943 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16931 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA00369; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709160325.VAA00369@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: hcremean@vt.edu CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <19970912010929.22227@wakky.dyn.ml.org> References: <19970906032624.26281@my.domain> <199709061315.PAA25745@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> <19970906204232.60650@wakky.dyn.ml.org> <19970911225256.12801@my.domain> <19970912010929.22227@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lee Cremeans writes: > Bah! (What exactly is I20, anyway? I saw some talk about it on > comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc, but...) Another weird American acronym, for "Intelligent I/O." It is basically a plan for Intel to sell i960 chips to people who ordinarily aren't that stupid. The plan calls for new I/O devices to sport an i960 processor, which talks to the i960 processor on the main board, thus making all of our I/O "intelligent." It doesn't, however, say this for free: currently you have to become a member of a secret I20 brotherhood and agree not to disclose anything in order to learn enough about I20 to develop drivers. It would appear this prevents anyone from legitimately giving away I20 drivers. This is bound to change some time in the near future, as Intel has too much to lose from the negative publicity generated by all those Linuxers out there. Not to mention Ray Noorda, in the guise of Caldera, hounding them. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 20:25:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17096 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17075 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA00372; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:28:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709160328.VAA00372@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Wolfgang Helbig CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: *tetris* files removed from cvs repository... In-Reply-To: <199709121216.OAA25518@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> References: <199709120132.CAA13656@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <199709121216.OAA25518@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfgang Helbig writes: > How about ``ANT'' -- ANT Not Tetris? For all you native english-manglers out there, I offer AINT: Am I Not Tetris? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 20:25:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17106 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17074 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-149.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.149]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA25329; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:25:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA01647; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:24:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709160324.WAA01647@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Testimonial In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:32 +0930." <19970915105332.48667@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:24:35 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > > On Sun, Sep 14, 1997 at 07:53:21PM -0500, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > > > Don't know how much good English would do for Marco in Itay, but he > > sure handles English better than I would Italian. About all the Italian > > I know are "Ferrari" and "Michael Schumacher". :-) > > And I thought Schumacher was German... Yup. At least *somebody* got my joke. Or at least noticed. :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 21:14:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19422 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19414 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA00410; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709160415.WAA00410@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: The Classiest Man Alive CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: language choices on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> References: <398.874278327@time.cdrom.com> <3.0.3.32.19970914222521.009dbad0@cybercom.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Classiest Man Alive writes: > Is there anybody out there using FreeBSD as a platform for FORTRAN? What > languages are people programming in out there on FreeBSD? (Just out of > curiosity.) Well, not currently, but I *did* once port a Fortran program to 386BSD. Back at Weber State, they had once acquired a satellite tracking program from NORAD; as my senior project I modified it to track the University's satellite NUSAT-1 and to run on the Harris 100 minicomputer owned by the electronics department. A number of years later, while fooling around with some friends at Weber, Terry Lambert showed my a system they had running 386BSD. I browbeat him into giving me an account on it so I could login over the network; this started my introduction to 386BSD (I was an 'anonymous' user starting at about 0.2 patchkit), then NetBSD, and finally FreeBSD. When I discovered f2c, I dug up my old satellite tracking program source code from my System V/AT at home and ported it again, called a friend who was working on Webersat and got the orbit info for NUSAT-2. That night, I went into the mountains with my binoculars, and sure enough, there was NUSAT-2 right on schedule. Talk about portability: the original ran on S/360, then Harris H/100, VAX/VMS somewhere along the way, SVR2, and finally 4.3 BSD. Fortran is dead, but it's still kicking. I've done object-oriented graphics programs in Fortran, using Oracle as an object data store. A reasonably good Fortran compiler with strong links to the C/C++ compiler is an asset for any UNIX system, even today. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 21:27:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19996 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19988 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA00419; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709160428.WAA00419@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Paul Griffith CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> References: <3.0.2.32.19970914211405.00691eac@interlog.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Griffith writes: > 1) Can you recommend any UNIX training centers that are recognized by > the industry ? ( I am currently enrolled in a UNIX System > Admin. course at a local College - Centennial College ) Certainly. Those run by Sun, HP, Silicon Graphics, and IBM. If your employer uses any of these machines, get them to pay for you to go to one or more of these courses. Second, there are various training classes offered during trade shows, such as Uniforum. Get your employer to send you to some of these, too. Third, and mostly, get yourself a copy of FreeBSD, stick it on a PC at home, and learn by doing. This is truly the only way to really learn to be a UNIX system administrator, and you'll learn a lot more on system where you're not terrified to kill the system. > 2) Do you think on is better off learning the UNIX tools (i.e. shell > scripts, pearl, performance tuning, etc.) than a vendor specific UNIX ? Yes! UNIX is as much a philosophy or mindset as it is an operating system. Once you begin to understand the "UNIX way," you will be able to see beyond the differences between the various UNIX systems to the similarities between them. And you'll understand why AIX sucks so much. ;^) > I also welcome any and all advice you can give me, Happy hacking! Go immediately to www.ugu.com for more (better) advice; it's the on-line hangout for UNIX SAs. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 21:33:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20453 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20448 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA21972; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Chuck Robey cc: Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > There are very different flavors of Unix, that are fairly distinct. It's > probably fair to say that the top level breakdown is between the AT&T SVR4 > type, and the BSD4.4 type. You have to understand that they borrow from > each other heavily, and often in the borrowing get things badly screwed > up. > > There are a plethora of differences in other versions, but the largest > differences are between those 2 I listed above, and previous versions of > those systems. > > You _should_ learn at least one Unix from both of those categories, but do > one at a time. Choose one to get reasonably good at, and don't move to > another until you can do basic emergency recovery (playing with disks and > mount tools and processes). Porting software is one hell of a good way to > learn the programming differences, but probably not so good at teaching > sys admin-ship. So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? Annelise From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 15 22:05:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25595 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25574 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA00395; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709160355.VAA00395@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <14968.874159442@time.cdrom.com> References: <19970913151322.NK52478@uriah.heep.sax.de> <14968.874159442@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joerg Wunsch stated: % German is now actually swamped by English vocabulary, not only in the % computer language. It's already beginning to be embarassing, and % English is quite often now called `Neudeutsch'. Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > That's actually pretty funny considering how much english (American > english, anyway) is populated with German words from all the German > immigrants in the early 20th century. Hey, some of those immigrants were my ancestors! Several of whom, by the way, anglicized their surnames in 1918. Wonder why? Historians used to date old english texts by the ratio of germanic to latin words; I wonder how this free exchanged between the two languages has affected their ability to date modern documents? ;^) > It's gotten even worse since I got back, with some americans still > going around shouting "fahrvergnugen!" at one another. ;-) ObJoke: What do you call four blondes in a Volkswagen? "Farfromthinkin!" -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 05:18:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20748 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20743 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11144; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Annelise Anderson cc: Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Annelise Anderson wrote: > > > On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > There are very different flavors of Unix, that are fairly distinct. It's > > probably fair to say that the top level breakdown is between the AT&T SVR4 > > type, and the BSD4.4 type. You have to understand that they borrow from > > each other heavily, and often in the borrowing get things badly screwed > > up. > > > > There are a plethora of differences in other versions, but the largest > > differences are between those 2 I listed above, and previous versions of > > those systems. > > > > You _should_ learn at least one Unix from both of those categories, but do > > one at a time. Choose one to get reasonably good at, and don't move to > > another until you can do basic emergency recovery (playing with disks and > > mount tools and processes). Porting software is one hell of a good way to > > learn the programming differences, but probably not so good at teaching > > sys admin-ship. > > So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes > made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any > free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? This is a somewhat "religious" type question, in that my answer is probably more my own opinion than a reliable statement of fact, but I will offer this: Linux is based largely on the SVR4 sematics, but with significant extensions. SCO Unix, which is a popular version, is likewise salted with various modifications. All these modifications reduce the coherence to a true SVR4 standard, but don't reduce their ability to provide a learning platform. Linux would be a good choice, with the proviso that an open attitude is kept on what is really SVR4, and what is extension. Summing up, I think Linux provides a good learning platform, but the student has to be cautioned about heavy reliance on some features that might not be universally available. I think things like not writing shell scripts in bash (prefer the more unversally available sh) would be an example. I'm not knocking bash, just noting it's not always available on a customer's machine, so it serves as a poor platform for portable scripts. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 05:52:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA22092 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA22086 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709161246.IAA03466@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:54:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Terry Lambert cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: <199709160008.RAA05782@usr08.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Redirected to chat. On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > You don't. This is the tax God levies on infidels who conform to > shitty standards. The universe has no pity on morons, nor should we. > Mankind will never advance if nature does not punish stupidity and > reward intelligence. Now ask me about seatbelt laws. 8-). > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org So tell us about seatbelt laws Terry. :-) Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net Abusenet: The Misinformation Superhighway From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 06:01:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA22465 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p60.global2000.net (315-dialup-13.global2000.net [208.133.142.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA22454 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19970831221230.08862@grendel.IAEhv.nl> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Griff Enterprises From: "Eric A. Griff" To: Peter Korsten Subject: Amiga Was:Conclusion to "NT vs. Unix" debate Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --snip-- >Perhaps I should say that I really want an Amiga, but then with a >500 Mhz Alpha chip. The Amiga had a pre-emptive multitasking OS >that ran in 256 Kb. Though some parts were a bit clumsy, the base >was very good. The basic type was a Node (ordered in a List), from >which you could derive (yes, object-orientation in C) a Task, a >Library, a Device or any system structure. > >The GUI was good and getting better, so was the shell. ARexx was >the third interface. This altogether made a system that, as I think >of it, was better than Unix (despite it's excellent shell) or >Windows 95/NT 4.0 (despite it's GUI). The fact that not all >applications supported all functions of the system, doesn't make >the system less powerfull. > >The Amiga has some functions that I really really miss in other >OS's. Writing your own installer application in some sort of >Lisp-like language - no need for InstallShield. Assigning logical >names to devices, directories or drives. Installing new devices or >filesystems while the system was running. --snip-- >- Peter Back in the late 80's I had an Amiga 1000, with the 256K ram expansion, and 2 3. 5" 700 something K floppies. It was amazing, at about 8Mhz, what this box could do.. In fact, Still have it. Needs an Analog RGB Monitor, and 2 new floppies. I ported The STadel BBS to it. For about 6 months, I ran this BBS with 100+ users (1 at a time of course) single line 1200 bps, without any difficulty.. The funny thing? Between the 2 floppies, and a little disk slinging, I was able to develo p, and compile (Using Lattice C) the whole system while it was running. User cha t was something to do during the 30 minute compile. Of course, if you wanted the networked message bases (Citadel, among others), you had to call when I wasnt compiling :) . If I fell apon a Hard drive/controller for it, and maybe able to hack 8MB into i t, and maybe a 68020, I would probably start porting FreeBSD over to it.. For th e fun of it. I liked the 68000 architecture. I believe that if it wasn't for MS, it may have very well gone a lot further.. Probably the ST too. The porting was n't that bad.. ---------------------------------- Eric A. Griff RD#1 Box 372 Oneida, NY 13421, USA (315) 495-2385 eagriff@global2000.net ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 06:02:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA22561 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA22545 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709161255.IAA03499@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:03:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Wes Peters cc: hcremean@vt.edu, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <199709160325.VAA00369@obie.softweyr.ml.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Lee Cremeans writes: > > Bah! (What exactly is I20, anyway? I saw some talk about it on > > comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc, but...) > > Another weird American acronym, for "Intelligent I/O." It is basically > a plan for Intel to sell i960 chips to people who ordinarily aren't that > stupid. The plan calls for new I/O devices to sport an i960 processor, > which talks to the i960 processor on the main board, thus making all of > our I/O "intelligent." It doesn't, however, say this for free: > currently you have to become a member of a secret I20 brotherhood and > agree not to disclose anything in order to learn enough about I20 to > develop drivers. It would appear this prevents anyone from legitimately > giving away I20 drivers. > > This is bound to change some time in the near future, as Intel has too > much to lose from the negative publicity generated by all those Linuxers > out there. Not to mention Ray Noorda, in the guise of Caldera, hounding > them. ;^) > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com > This is one place where the GPL may do some good. Once one of those commercial Linux people join and start diddling the source, they are bound by copyleft to distribute it. Which takes precedence in that case? Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net Abusenet: The Misinformation Superhighway From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 08:06:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28884 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28878 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709161451.KAA03889@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:59:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Wes Peters cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <199709160355.VAA00395@obie.softweyr.ml.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Joerg Wunsch stated: > % German is now actually swamped by English vocabulary, not only in the > % computer language. It's already beginning to be embarassing, and > % English is quite often now called `Neudeutsch'. > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > That's actually pretty funny considering how much english (American > > english, anyway) is populated with German words from all the German > > immigrants in the early 20th century. > > Hey, some of those immigrants were my ancestors! Several of whom, by > the way, anglicized their surnames in 1918. Wonder why? > > Historians used to date old english texts by the ratio of germanic to > latin words; I wonder how this free exchanged between the two languages > has affected their ability to date modern documents? ;^) > > > It's gotten even worse since I got back, with some americans still > > going around shouting "fahrvergnugen!" at one another. ;-) > > ObJoke: What do you call four blondes in a Volkswagen? > > "Farfromthinkin!" > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com > Let's not forget that English is a Germanic language. Moving structures and words back and forth isn't difficult. Nice blonde joke, BTW. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net Abusenet: The Misinformation Superhighway From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 09:48:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04847 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04829; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id SAA16262; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:45:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11559; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:29:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970916182925.26072@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:29:25 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Greg Lehey Cc: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: not the sounddriver this time .... References: <199709101250.OAA21535@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19970911081907.29251@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19970911081907.29251@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 08:19:07AM +0930 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Sep 11, 1997 at 08:19:07AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 02:50:38PM +0200, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > ... but a cute new baby! > > > > Silvia Rizzo is born a couple of hours ago :) > > Congratulations! Me too ;-) So you need soon daemon T-Shirts, napkins, ... ;-) -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 09:49:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04894 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04886 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id SAA16231; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:45:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11254; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:17:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970916181757.07680@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:17:57 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Annelise Anderson Cc: Chuck Robey , Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Annelise Anderson on Mon, Sep 15, 1997 at 09:32:33PM -0700 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Sep 15, 1997 at 09:32:33PM -0700, Annelise Anderson wrote: > So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes > made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any > free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? I think any Linux version is not equal to SVR4. I think Sun has done a good Job with Solaris 2.6. It's a fast and nice Unix that's capable of SMP. The advantage is, that it runs on three different platforms: SPARC, Intel and PowerPC. So learning this Unix has the advantage of learning a modern SVR4 based Unix, that coveres the three main hardware platforms nowadays ... -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 10:33:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07790 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07728 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem09.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.39]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15811; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:33:11 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <341EDD76.51EB@asme.org> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:26:46 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Reply-To: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Annelise Anderson CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Annelise Anderson wrote: > > So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes > made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any > free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? > > Annelise I guess that would be SCO's "Free" Unixware. Linux is POSIX, but is it really SVR4? (I doubt it). Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 11:15:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA10273 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10266 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20560; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: SMP motherboard advice... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is there a product out there that has the following features: * dual Pentium MMX CPU support * at least 75 MHz bus speed * at least 4 PCI slots * at least 3 SDRAM slots * can cache a full 512MB of RAM * on-board ultrawide SCSI * must work with FreeBSD-SMP ;-) I've always gone with ASUS, but the closest product they have is the P/I-P65UP5 and the P/E-P55T2P4D, neither of which have SDRAM support or on-board SCSI, and the P65UP5 uses a proprietary CPU daughtercard. I'm thinking of putting together a system with dual P166's or P200's, possibly overclocked to 225 MHz (75*3). Is there such a beast out there, or should I forego the SDRAM requirement (I doubt it would make a difference for what will basically be my personal gaming machine). -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 11:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11810 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11804 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA07964 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:30:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16838; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:24:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970916202428.32943@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:24:28 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bonnie results: good ccd performance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Under X11R6 with 64Meg RAM and 2 rc5 crack processes running: Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd0a 31743 15206 13998 52% / /dev/sd0s1 818960 18464 800496 2% /dos /dev/sd0s2f 1029135 500897 445908 53% /usr /dev/sd0s2e 127023 5320 111542 5% /var /dev/ccd0c 198327 63 182398 0% /obj /dev/ccd1c 192415 69425 107597 39% /news /dev/ccd2c 96135 5459 82986 6% /www /dev/ccd3c 3400078 1537521 1590551 49% /home procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc mfs:33 30991 2854 25658 10% /tmp -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 100 9778 91.4 10075 37.1 2720 12.6 8678 87.0 10334 30.4 89.2 3.4 AHA 2940U && 3 IBM DORS 32160 which usually have a peak performance of about 5.4 MB/sec.... My ccd.conf file: # # Configuration file for concatenated disk devices # # ccd ileave flags component devices ccd0 128 none /dev/sd1s1e /dev/sd2s1e ccd1 128 none /dev/sd1s1f /dev/sd2s1f ccd2 128 none /dev/sd1s1g /dev/sd2s1g ccd3 128 none /dev/sd1s1h /dev/sd2s1h Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 11:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12290 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12277 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14418; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:46:32 +0200 (SAT) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08882; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:46:50 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199709161846.UAA08882@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:46:49 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I dunno about the MMX, but the Giga-Byte GA586DX does the rest. Visit www.giga-byte.com. I am a happy customer. M Brian Tao wrote: > I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out > the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is > there a product out there that has the following features: > > * dual Pentium MMX CPU support > * at least 75 MHz bus speed > * at least 4 PCI slots > * at least 3 SDRAM slots > * can cache a full 512MB of RAM > * on-board ultrawide SCSI > * must work with FreeBSD-SMP ;-) > > I've always gone with ASUS, but the closest product they have is > the P/I-P65UP5 and the P/E-P55T2P4D, neither of which have SDRAM > support or on-board SCSI, and the P65UP5 uses a proprietary CPU > daughtercard. I'm thinking of putting together a system with dual > P166's or P200's, possibly overclocked to 225 MHz (75*3). > > Is there such a beast out there, or should I forego the SDRAM > requirement (I doubt it would make a difference for what will > basically be my personal gaming machine). > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 11:56:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12946 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12938 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28374; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:56:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Mark Murray cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709161846.UAA08882@greenpeace.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Mark Murray wrote: > > I dunno about the MMX, but the Giga-Byte GA586DX does the rest. Yeah, I was just browsing through their site. Does it support 75 or 83 MHz bus speeds? The info on the Web site doesn't specify. It does say that Pentium MMX CPU's are supported. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 12:19:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA14291 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user20020@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14286 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 16 Sep 1997 19:23:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:23:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Mark Murray cc: Brian Tao , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709161846.UAA08882@greenpeace.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You want the ASUS P2L97-DS. They run a bit under $600 USD, and will be available next week. Check out www.atipa.com. Also has AGP port (about 10X faster than PCI for large 3D manipulations). It is a P-II motherboard. Normal Pentium-MMX chipsets will not be able to provide that combination of features. The TX chipset which has most the bells and whistles can not cache over 128MB and has no SMP support. Kevin On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Mark Murray wrote: > I dunno about the MMX, but the Giga-Byte GA586DX does the rest. > > Visit www.giga-byte.com. I am a happy customer. > > M > > Brian Tao wrote: > > I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out > > the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is > > there a product out there that has the following features: > > > > * dual Pentium MMX CPU support > > * at least 75 MHz bus speed > > * at least 4 PCI slots > > * at least 3 SDRAM slots > > * can cache a full 512MB of RAM > > * on-board ultrawide SCSI > > * must work with FreeBSD-SMP ;-) > > > > I've always gone with ASUS, but the closest product they have is > > the P/I-P65UP5 and the P/E-P55T2P4D, neither of which have SDRAM > > support or on-board SCSI, and the P65UP5 uses a proprietary CPU > > daughtercard. I'm thinking of putting together a system with dual > > P166's or P200's, possibly overclocked to 225 MHz (75*3). > > > > Is there such a beast out there, or should I forego the SDRAM > > requirement (I doubt it would make a difference for what will > > basically be my personal gaming machine). > > -- > > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) > > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > > > -- > Mark Murray > Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 12:25:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA14505 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user20149@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14500 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 16 Sep 1997 19:29:15 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:29:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Brian Tao cc: Mark Murray , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Brian Tao wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Mark Murray wrote: > > > > I dunno about the MMX, but the Giga-Byte GA586DX does the rest. > > Yeah, I was just browsing through their site. Does it support 75 > or 83 MHz bus speeds? The info on the Web site doesn't specify. It > does say that Pentium MMX CPU's are supported. The GA-586DX is a great board, but it will not do most or your list. It has not clock support over 66MHz, no SDRAM, no DIMM, no Ultra DMA, no concurrent PCI, not AGP, etc. But that is not its target audience. It is a very fine server board, and does not cost much more than the Adaptec SCSI card it replaces. It will go up to dual 200MHz (with or w/o MMX), caches up to 512MB, and supports up to 784MB of system memory. We have sold tons of these over the past 18 months, and the reliability has been very good. Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:02:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16578 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16567 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) id KAA00106; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:00:04 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199709162000.KAA00106@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: from Atipa at "Sep 16, 97 01:23:05 pm" To: freebsd@atipa.com (Atipa) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:00:03 -1000 (HST) Cc: mark@grondar.za, taob@nbc.netcom.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay stupid question. Where do you plug in the second Pentium II on the P2L97-DS? > Atipa >You want the ASUS P2L97-DS. They run a bit under $600 USD, and will be >available next week. Check out www.atipa.com. Also has AGP port (about >10X faster than PCI for large 3D manipulations). >> >> Brian Tao wrote: >> > I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out >> > the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is >> > there a product out there that has the following features: >> > >> > * dual Pentium MMX CPU support From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:17:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17475 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17454 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25944; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:15:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Andreas Klemm cc: Annelise Anderson , Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: <19970916181757.07680@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Mon, Sep 15, 1997 at 09:32:33PM -0700, Annelise Anderson wrote: > > So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes > > made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any > > free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? > > I think any Linux version is not equal to SVR4. Depends on just how closely you want that emulation. I think it's close enough to learn on, but not close enough if you're going to use it as a development patform (with a real SVR4 as the target). There are many divergences between Linux and SVR4. That's my own personal reason for rejecting Linux for FreeBSD, because FreeBSD cares much more strongly about standards. However, Annelise said it was for students, and I think it comes pretty close, as far as that. Actually, so does Sun's Solaris, I think, the X86 version. It's cheap, and it comes closer even than Linux. Sorta depends on a student's budget ... you ever heard of a student with enough cash to spend? > I think Sun has done a good Job with Solaris 2.6. > It's a fast and nice Unix that's capable of SMP. > The advantage is, that it runs on three different platforms: > SPARC, Intel and PowerPC. So learning this Unix has the > advantage of learning a modern SVR4 based Unix, that coveres > the three main hardware platforms nowadays ... > > -- > Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by > Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:25:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17771 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17765 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15013; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: David Langford cc: Atipa , mark@grondar.za, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709162000.KAA00106@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, David Langford wrote: > > Okay stupid question. Where do you plug in the second Pentium II on > the P2L97-DS? In the second Slot 1 interface? :) I'm not really looking at Slot 1 systems right now... I'd rather stick with known Socket 7 products for now (especially since they are half the price, or less). BTW, I heard that the AMD K6's can do SMP now... fact or fiction? I'd love to have dual K6-233's... -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:31:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18143 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user21242@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18138 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 16 Sep 1997 20:35:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:35:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: David Langford cc: mark@grondar.za, taob@nbc.netcom.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709162000.KAA00106@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, David Langford wrote: > Okay stupid question. Where do you plug in the second Pentium II on > the P2L97-DS? It has "Dual Slot 1" sockets, supporting 233-333Mhz. Are you looking at the right picture? It is the bottom of the three MBs shown on the front page of www.asus.com. The "Slot 1" sockets look like long, brown PCI slots, running parallel to the DIMM slots. Kevin > >You want the ASUS P2L97-DS. They run a bit under $600 USD, and will be > >available next week. Check out www.atipa.com. Also has AGP port (about > >10X faster than PCI for large 3D manipulations). > >> > >> Brian Tao wrote: > >> > I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out > >> > the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is > >> > there a product out there that has the following features: > >> > > >> > * dual Pentium MMX CPU support > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:38:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18686 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18679 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) id KAA00351; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:36:25 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199709162036.KAA00351@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: from Atipa at "Sep 16, 97 02:35:24 pm" To: freebsd@atipa.com (Atipa) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:36:24 -1000 (HST) Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, mark@grondar.za, taob@nbc.netcom.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see it know. Wierd, for almost every other motherboard seems it seems like big mention is made of the multiprocessor support. I wasnt reall sure what they meant with "Dual slot 1" and the I wasnt relal sure what I was looking at picure wise. Damn clean board though :) If you say this board is about $600 and the P2L97 is $300 why the $300! difference. Doesnt seem like too much was done to the boards. -David >> Okay stupid question. Where do you plug in the second Pentium II on >> the P2L97-DS? > >It has "Dual Slot 1" sockets, supporting 233-333Mhz. >Are you looking at the right picture? It is the bottom of the three MBs >shown on the front page of www.asus.com. > >The "Slot 1" sockets look like long, brown PCI slots, running parallel to >the DIMM slots. > >Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 13:55:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19366 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user21569@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19361 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 16 Sep 1997 20:59:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:59:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: David Langford cc: langfod@dihelix.com, mark@grondar.za, taob@nbc.netcom.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709162036.KAA00351@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, David Langford wrote: > I wasnt reall sure what they meant with "Dual slot 1" and the I > wasnt really sure what I was looking at picure wise. > > Damn clean board though :) Apparenty. They haven't arrived yet, so I'll let you know after I actually get to play with one. I know the P2L97 (normal) is very well-designed. > If you say this board is about $600 and the P2L97 is $300 why > the $300! difference. Doesnt seem like too much was done to the boards. > > -David Well, the AIC-7880 chips used for the Adaptec 2940UW SCSI controller are expensive. I think the main reason they chrge so much is that THEY CAN! :) They aren't running a charity, and they know people will shell out the bucks. For leading edge technology, I don't think they are that off the wall. Hardware developers are having an EXTREMELY difficult time maintaining margins unless they can fill a void. Commodity parts are just too cheap these days. Memory is down to about $3/meg, Hard disk space about $.05/meg, P-150's under $100, 4MB video cards under $50... The list goes on and on. It certainly is a buyer's market. Manufacturers (and distributors like ourselves) are working harder than ever to make less money than before. People who sell their brains for $50-$100 per hour maintaining systems know that the cost of the system is small compared to the TCO (total cost of ownership). Those people don't mind paying a little more for hardware that will save them several hours of labor and/or downtime. Oops.. I guess I digressed! :) Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 14:03:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19788 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19777 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id XAA11514; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:00:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26010; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970916225558.19575@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:55:58 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Chuck Robey Cc: Annelise Anderson , Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: <19970916181757.07680@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 04:15:50PM -0400 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 04:15:50PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > Actually, so does Sun's Solaris, I think, the X86 version. It's cheap, > and it comes closer even than Linux. Sorta depends on a student's budget > ... you ever heard of a student with enough cash to spend? Sun gives away Solaris 2.x *sources* for copy costs, about $100. So shouldn't it be possible, that a student gets a binary release ? -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 14:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20528 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20523 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (daemon@cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24327 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:21:02 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov with ESMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA244194861; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:21:01 GMT Message-Id: <341EF83C.CC026F34@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:21:01 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Printer recommendation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone. My trusty old Panasonic PostScript KX-P4455 laser printer is on its last leg, and I frankly don't want to maintain the beast anymore. A lot of my Windows- and Mac-using friends seem pretty happy with these color inkjets that seem to have saturated the market, and I have to admit they look pretty darn good! Would anyone care to recommend a unit? I'd like color, but the majority of my printing is black/white. The color had better be decent, though. It doesn't need to be overly speedy. 600dpi resolution or better. It doesn't need PostScript, because thanks to the latest fonts, Ghostscript's output finally rivals that of honest-to-goodness PostScript Level 2. But that does mean it needs to grok one of Ghostscript's output formats. I'd prefer a serial interface (got plenty of ports on several machines), but those are pretty rare on printers these days. Ethernet would be fine, if it's not too expensive. And, naturally, this'll go on a FreeBSD system. Thanks. --Sean From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 15:59:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25643 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25637 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous215.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.215]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA16667 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:54:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00613; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:51:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970917005153.45106@panke.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:51:53 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: uptime on hub.freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk $ uptime 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 ^^^ Wolfram From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 16:43:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27209 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27203 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA00864; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:13:01 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970917091300.51135@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:13:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jamie Bowden Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <199709160355.VAA00395@obie.softweyr.ml.org> <199709161451.KAA03889@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709161451.KAA03889@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 10:59:55AM -0400 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 10:59:55AM -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > >> Joerg Wunsch stated: >>> German is now actually swamped by English vocabulary, not only in the >>> computer language. It's already beginning to be embarassing, and >>> English is quite often now called `Neudeutsch'. >> >> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >>> That's actually pretty funny considering how much english (American >>> english, anyway) is populated with German words from all the German >>> immigrants in the early 20th century. >> >> Hey, some of those immigrants were my ancestors! Several of whom, by >> the way, anglicized their surnames in 1918. Wonder why? >> >> Historians used to date old english texts by the ratio of germanic to >> latin words; I wonder how this free exchanged between the two languages >> has affected their ability to date modern documents? ;^) >> >>> It's gotten even worse since I got back, with some americans still >>> going around shouting "fahrvergnugen!" at one another. ;-) >> >> ObJoke: What do you call four blondes in a Volkswagen? >> >> "Farfromthinkin!" >> >> -- >> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >> >> Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >> http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com >> > > Let's not forget that English is a Germanic language. Was. They started adulterating it over 900 years ago. It's surprising how much remains. > Moving structures and words back and forth isn't difficult. No, but difficult is it, them to understand. The English syntax has in the course of the last millenium suffered. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 17:06:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA28638 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA28631 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00595; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:34:11 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709170004.JAA00595@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:14:58 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:34:09 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure if this motherboard even exists, so I'm tossing out > the question here before moving it to freebsd-smp or other list. Is > there a product out there that has the following features: > > * dual Pentium MMX CPU support Most of the SMP guys will tell you that a dual P5 is a waste of time. > Is there such a beast out there, or should I forego the SDRAM > requirement (I doubt it would make a difference for what will > basically be my personal gaming machine). If you're planning on playing games on the box, SMP is a waste of time. You want the fastest uniprocessor machine your budget will support, the most evil video card you can get, and a BIG MONITOR! mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 17:34:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00420 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00411 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA06363; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:33:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Andreas Klemm cc: Annelise Anderson , Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: <19970916225558.19575@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 04:15:50PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > Actually, so does Sun's Solaris, I think, the X86 version. It's cheap, > > and it comes closer even than Linux. Sorta depends on a student's budget > > ... you ever heard of a student with enough cash to spend? > > Sun gives away Solaris 2.x *sources* for copy costs, about $100. > So shouldn't it be possible, that a student gets a binary release ? No. That offer of Sun's was bogus, I _am_ a student, I tried, they told me I would have to get it thru the University. If the university of Maryland wouldn't buy it for me (fat chance) then, no. > > -- > Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by > Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 17:36:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00619 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00612 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22872; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:36:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Sean Kelly cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: <341EF83C.CC026F34@fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > Would anyone care to recommend a unit? HP recently announced a mid-priced [ink jet] model (~US$500 list if I recall) that will do 9 pages a minute in black & white and 5 in color. As far as color quality, there is a lot of raving about the Epson Stylus 800 in photography newsgroups. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 18:45:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04170 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04163 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA07830; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:44:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: John Fieber cc: Sean Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Sean Kelly wrote: > > > Would anyone care to recommend a unit? > > HP recently announced a mid-priced [ink jet] model (~US$500 list > if I recall) that will do 9 pages a minute in black & white and > 5 in color. As far as color quality, there is a lot of raving > about the Epson Stylus 800 in photography newsgroups. I'll chime in. I got myself a HP 693C Inkjet. It's supposed to be available in a non-Windows version (I think model 691) but no one seems to stock it. It's popular, so it's heavily discounted, don't pay more than $350. It's nicely supported by ghostscript's cdjcolor and cdjmono drivers, and for the cost, is very likely the best quality printing you can get, this side of dye-sublimation. It's not as fast as your laser, but it's speedy enough at least for me, and the print quality, well, you'll have to look very closely at your black and white copies to tell the difference with your current printer. Magnifying glass-close. > > -john > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 19:26:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05989 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05981 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA23043; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:26:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Chuck Robey cc: Sean Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > but it's speedy enough at least for me, and the print quality, well, > you'll have to look very closely at your black and white copies to tell > the difference with your current printer. Magnifying glass-close. How sensitive is it to paper quality? I know my 1990 vintage DeskJet output looks decent on premium quality paper, but pretty poor on anything else. This seems to be one area where lasers are more flexible. Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes notably unreliable. This is something to keep in mind since the paper handling mechanism is essentially the same on most every member of the deskjet family I've seen. Presumably this is something that can be repaired with replacement parts, but I've never investigated. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 19:43:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07025 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07020 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11602; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: John Fieber cc: Sean Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > but it's speedy enough at least for me, and the print quality, well, > > you'll have to look very closely at your black and white copies to tell > > the difference with your current printer. Magnifying glass-close. > > How sensitive is it to paper quality? I know my 1990 vintage > DeskJet output looks decent on premium quality paper, but pretty > poor on anything else. This seems to be one area where lasers > are more flexible. I use laser paper. They tried to sell me paper when I bought my printer, but I had bought a case a month before my old laser died, so I use that. On laser paper, it depends a little on just how much ink is deposited. Text, no sweat at all. I've printed maybe 20 graphics so far; just one had so much color, it saturated the paper. All the others were superior. That one was while I was experimenting with the 24 bit capability of the printer, I'm not sure. > > Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes > notably unreliable. This is something to keep in mind since the > paper handling mechanism is essentially the same on most every > member of the deskjet family I've seen. Presumably this is > something that can be repaired with replacement parts, but I've > never investigated. Let you know in 6 years :-) > > -john > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 20:23:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09418 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09411 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA02106; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:52:50 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970917125249.41361@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:52:49 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Fieber Cc: Chuck Robey , Sean Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 09:26:01PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 09:26:01PM -0500, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > >> but it's speedy enough at least for me, and the print quality, well, >> you'll have to look very closely at your black and white copies to tell >> the difference with your current printer. Magnifying glass-close. > > How sensitive is it to paper quality? I know my 1990 vintage > DeskJet output looks decent on premium quality paper, but pretty > poor on anything else. This seems to be one area where lasers > are more flexible. > > Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes > notably unreliable. To be fair, you should note that that was the case 6 years ago. If the inkjets have improved as much as laser printers have, I don't think that would have much relevance to a modern printer. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 20:27:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09658 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09650 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02223; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:27:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Mike Smith cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709170004.JAA00595@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > Most of the SMP guys will tell you that a dual P5 is a waste of time. As opposed to what? Dual PPros or PII's? Those are still on the pricey side. What specific disadvantages are there to dual P5's? Nowhere near 2x performance? Current motherboards not having enough L2 cache for 2x200-MHz CPU's? > If you're planning on playing games on the box, SMP is a waste of > time. You want the fastest uniprocessor machine your budget will > support, the most evil video card you can get, and a BIG MONITOR! I'll have the evil video cards and a big monitor, but I also want to diddle around with FreeBSD-SMP. ;-) I figure the addition of a Voodoo 3D accelerator alone will do wonders for my game playing experience. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 20:39:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10357 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10352 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00422; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:07:35 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709170337.NAA00422@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Tao cc: Mike Smith , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:27:06 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:07:35 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Most of the SMP guys will tell you that a dual P5 is a waste of time. > > As opposed to what? Dual PPros or PII's? Those are still on the > pricey side. What specific disadvantages are there to dual P5's? > Nowhere near 2x performance? Current motherboards not having enough > L2 cache for 2x200-MHz CPU's? More to the point, there usually being only one L2 cache for the two CPUs, and a single P6 being more cost-effective. > > If you're planning on playing games on the box, SMP is a waste of > > time. You want the fastest uniprocessor machine your budget will > > support, the most evil video card you can get, and a BIG MONITOR! > > I'll have the evil video cards and a big monitor, but I also want > to diddle around with FreeBSD-SMP. ;-) I figure the addition of a > Voodoo 3D accelerator alone will do wonders for my game playing > experience. :) Heh. 8) Basically, you'll have to compromise in order to meet both your goals. Ain't life a bitch? mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 20:56:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11351 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11346 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07695; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:55:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Mike Smith cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709170337.NAA00422@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > More to the point, there usually being only one L2 cache for the two > CPUs, and a single P6 being more cost-effective. Do P6 motherboards typically have separate L2 cache for each CPU then? If so, maybe I'll buy a dual PPro motherboard, but start with just a single CPU. Do PPro's still have problems running 16-bit code? > Basically, you'll have to compromise in order to meet both your > goals. Ain't life a bitch? Or hope more cool games are written for X. ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 21:00:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11581 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11576 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00493; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:28:42 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709170358.NAA00493@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Tao cc: Mike Smith , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:55:59 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:28:42 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > More to the point, there usually being only one L2 cache for the two > > CPUs, and a single P6 being more cost-effective. > > Do P6 motherboards typically have separate L2 cache for each CPU > then? If so, maybe I'll buy a dual PPro motherboard, but start with > just a single CPU. Do PPro's still have problems running 16-bit code? Er, the L2 cache comes *with* the P6. There are two slabs of silicon inside it. Most games these days are flat-model 32-bit code; W95 seems to run OK on the P6 if that's your concern, mike From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 21:10:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12183 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12176 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10168; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:09:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Mike Smith cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-Reply-To: <199709170358.NAA00493@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > Er, the L2 cache comes *with* the P6. There are two slabs of > silicon inside it. Oh duh, that's right... brain not engaged tonight. :-/ > Most games these days are flat-model 32-bit code; W95 seems to run > OK on the P6 if that's your concern, Only in the sense that I might need it for DirectX or to launch certain games. ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 21:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14627 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14619 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA01534; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709170456.WAA01534@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co CC: chat@freebsd.org, Annelise Anderson Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin In-Reply-To: <341EDD76.51EB@asme.org> References: <341EDD76.51EB@asme.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Annelise Anderson asked: % So, FreeBSD is a good choice for the BSD4.4 type, a point I have sometimes % made to computer science students. But what's a good SVR4 choice--any % free ones? Any versions of Linux that qualify? Pedro Giffuni S. replied: > I guess that would be SCO's "Free" Unixware. Linux is POSIX, but is it > really SVR4? (I doubt it). Not really -- you won't learn about the SVR4 service controllers, used amongst other things for tty logins and printers, for instance. This is one of the nastiest, ugliest areas of SVR4 administration, too. Has SCO finally released the Free UnixWare? Last time I checked, they had the free license to SCO OpenServer, but that is SVR3.2 with lots of hacking and gratuitous changes by SCO; not quite the same. All in all, UnixWare wasn't a bad little system when being sold by UniVel, it was just that FreeBSD was so much better, and so much cheaper. ;^) Still a bargain if you wanted to learn (or write code for) SVR4. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:11:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15801 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15794 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem18.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.48]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA17481; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:13:12 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <341F818B.6296@asme.org> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:06:51 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: <341EDD76.51EB@asme.org> <199709170456.WAA01534@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wes Peters wrote: > > > Has SCO finally released the Free UnixWare? Last time I checked, they > had the free license to SCO OpenServer, but that is SVR3.2 with lots of > hacking and gratuitous changes by SCO; not quite the same. > Yes. They also released *yet another* OpenServer, which makes me really worry about the future of UNIX :(. Time to bring SVR4 emulation into FreeBSD? ;-) Pedro. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:19:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16254 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16249 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01552; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709170522.XAA01552@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Sean Kelly CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: <341EF83C.CC026F34@fsl.noaa.gov> References: <341EF83C.CC026F34@fsl.noaa.gov> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Kelly writes: > Hi everyone. > > My trusty old Panasonic PostScript KX-P4455 laser printer is on its last > leg, and I frankly don't want to maintain the beast anymore. A lot of > my Windows- and Mac-using friends seem pretty happy with these color > inkjets that seem to have saturated the market, and I have to admit they > look pretty darn good! > > Would anyone care to recommend a unit? > > I'd like color, but the majority of my printing is black/white. The > color had better be decent, though. It doesn't need to be overly > speedy. 600dpi resolution or better. It doesn't need PostScript, > because thanks to the latest fonts, Ghostscript's output finally rivals > that of honest-to-goodness PostScript Level 2. But that does mean it > needs to grok one of Ghostscript's output formats. I'd prefer a serial > interface (got plenty of ports on several machines), but those are > pretty rare on printers these days. Ethernet would be fine, if it's not > too expensive. And, naturally, this'll go on a FreeBSD system. My trusty Epson Stylus 300 has been whining along for nearly 3 years now, and has never given me a problem. I bought it and two brothers, both immediately sold to friends, back when both Comptuer City and Circuit City was closing them out for $99. Mine's got the fourth cartridge in it now, and still prints quite nicely. It's attached to my FreeBSD system, fed by Ghostscript + apsfilter from Unix, and Samba from my wife's Win95 system. The newer Epson color Stylii, along with an up-to-date Ghostscript, will give you color postscript. I'm not sure about support for the Canon printers in Ghostscript, but they seem to have lower consumables costs than the Epsons. HP consumables are much higher than either the Epson or Canon. Good luck. Let us know how you do, my wife wants a color printer soon (and I want to separate our computers by an entire floor). -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:30:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16966 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16956 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01582; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709170532.XAA01582@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: John Fieber CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber writes: > How sensitive is it to paper quality? I know my 1990 vintage > DeskJet output looks decent on premium quality paper, but pretty > poor on anything else. This seems to be one area where lasers > are more flexible. All inkjets are fussier about paper quality than lasers. Most quality paper manufacturers these days make inkjet papers that are reasonably priced and fare much better than "laser xerography" paper. In the western US, you can typically find these for $4.50 per ream at office supply stores, and half that if you buy it by the box. (If you buy paper by the box, you'll die of old age waiting for your inkjet to print.) > Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes > notably unreliable. This is something to keep in mind since the > paper handling mechanism is essentially the same on most every > member of the deskjet family I've seen. Presumably this is > something that can be repaired with replacement parts, but I've > never investigated. My Epson Stylus 300 is now 3 years old and hasn't started anything like this yet. The HP DeskJets seem to have much more paper handling hardware, with the little arms that grip the side of the paper and such. Simpler seems to me to be better in this case. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:31:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17081 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17072 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01585; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709170534.XAA01585@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Greg Lehey CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: <19970917125249.41361@lemis.com> References: <19970917125249.41361@lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber wrote: % Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes % notably unreliable. Greg Lehey writes: > To be fair, you should note that that was the case 6 years ago. If > the inkjets have improved as much as laser printers have, I don't > think that would have much relevance to a modern printer. I think they've actually improved *more* than laser printers. These new ones out this summer never seem to jam, are quieter than the previous generation, and are now getting much faster. Sigh. So many toys, so few dollars. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:36:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17480 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17472 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA01591; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709170539.XAA01591@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Jamie Bowden CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testimonial In-Reply-To: <199709161255.IAA03499@gatekeeper.itribe.net> References: <199709160325.VAA00369@obie.softweyr.ml.org> <199709161255.IAA03499@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamie Bowden writes, w.r.t. non-disclosure of I2O driver code: > This is one place where the GPL may do some good. Once one of those > commercial Linux people join and start diddling the source, they are bound > by copyleft to distribute it. Which takes precedence in that case? Well, since the I2O NDA says "you can't show I2O source code to anyone who isn't a member of I2O" and copyleft says "if you use this, you have to give away the source code" you end up with: "If you develop copylefted I2O drivers, you can only distribute them to I2O members" This doesn't violate either agreement, but it certainly makes the drivers nearly worthless. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 22:52:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18569 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18562 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA19342 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:52:06 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA25734; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:38:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970917073823.FM53423@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:38:23 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Testimonial References: <199709160325.VAA00369@obie.softweyr.ml.org> <199709161255.IAA03499@gatekeeper.itribe.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199709161255.IAA03499@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Sep 16, 1997 09:03:49 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jamie Bowden wrote: (I20 copyright braindeadness) > This is one place where the GPL may do some good. Once one of those > commercial Linux people join and start diddling the source, they are bound > by copyleft to distribute it. Which takes precedence in that case? The original one, of course. You cannot obtain rights on `stolen' things. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 16 23:17:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20400 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic10.pm01.sf1.best.com [206.184.197.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20393 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA01453; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970916231747.19746@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:17:47 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: John Fieber Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 09:26:01PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 09:26:01PM -0500, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > [ DELETED ] > Also, after about 6 years, the paper feed mechanism becomes > notably unreliable. This is something to keep in mind since the > paper handling mechanism is essentially the same on most every > member of the deskjet family I've seen. Presumably this is > something that can be repaired with replacement parts, but I've > never investigated. It can be repaired _BUT_ the cost of repairing is close to the cost of a new unit. Even at HP, where I work, we simply replace broken printers. This is including the fact that we get a very deep discount on parts and we have many geeks who would be very happy to spend a lunch hour fixing an old printer. When your printer dies in 6 years or so just tell yourself, "I got my money's worth" Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 00:33:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25900 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25894 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20140; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709170733.AAA20140@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Brian Tao cc: Mike Smith , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:55:59 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:33:21 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Brian Tao : > Or hope more cool games are written for X. ;-) But of course there is an effort to support Voodoo graphics on X 8) Note: I am not doing the hacking on the parties involved are: http://www.3dfx.com, XFree86 and Mesa Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 01:15:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28547 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28538 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id KAA08418; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:00:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17130; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:49:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970917094921.27123@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:49:21 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Chuck Robey Cc: Annelise Anderson , Paul Griffith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice Needed - Unix System Admin References: <19970916225558.19575@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 08:33:43PM -0400 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 08:33:43PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 1997 at 04:15:50PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > > Actually, so does Sun's Solaris, I think, the X86 version. It's cheap, > > > and it comes closer even than Linux. Sorta depends on a student's budget > > > ... you ever heard of a student with enough cash to spend? > > > > Sun gives away Solaris 2.x *sources* for copy costs, about $100. > > So shouldn't it be possible, that a student gets a binary release ? > > No. That offer of Sun's was bogus, I _am_ a student, I tried, they told > me I would have to get it thru the University. If the university of > Maryland wouldn't buy it for me (fat chance) then, no. I think the University would have to sign something like a non disclosure. But what's the problem. Give the university the $100 and they should buy it for your research ;-)) -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 01:21:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28918 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28903 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA28226; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:20:05 -0700 (PDT) To: Brian Tao cc: Mike Smith , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:55:59 EDT." Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <28223.874484404@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > just a single CPU. Do PPro's still have problems running 16-bit code? Yes, but who cares? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 01:53:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA01036 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (root@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01031 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost01.primenet.com [206.165.5.52]) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13202; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from foo.primenet.com (ip217.sjc.primenet.com [206.165.96.217]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29101; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by foo.primenet.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA04105; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709170900.CAA04105@foo.primenet.com> To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: Printer recommendation Newsgroups: localhost.freebsd.chat References: <341EF83C.CC026F34@fsl.noaa.gov> From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In localhost.freebsd.chat you write: >Hi everyone. >My trusty old Panasonic PostScript KX-P4455 laser printer is on its last >leg, and I frankly don't want to maintain the beast anymore. A lot of >my Windows- and Mac-using friends seem pretty happy with these color >inkjets that seem to have saturated the market, and I have to admit they >look pretty darn good! >Would anyone care to recommend a unit? I have an HP Deskjet 600 which I am ambivalent about. It does what I need, and prints well, but seems to have a penchant for eating ink cartridges. If I were to purchase a printer today, I would seriously consider two printer classes: 1. A really cheap laser/LED (e.g. Okidata or Panasonic). The ones that are in the inkjet range. This may be a case where the price has dropped too low for quality to be maintained (a $200 LED printer???). 2. The Epson printers. They seem to have reasonable support (from what I've read, not personal experience), and very good to _excellent_ color (although I don't know how much of this is driver magic). The killer color one is about $500 (Stylus Color Pro ?); the good one is about $300. Alll prices are US dollars, and Fry's prices, which means you should be able to shave $10-$50 off of them if you look. >I'd like color, but the majority of my printing is black/white. The >color had better be decent, though. It doesn't need to be overly >speedy. 600dpi resolution or better. It doesn't need PostScript, >because thanks to the latest fonts, Ghostscript's output finally rivals >that of honest-to-goodness PostScript Level 2. But that does mean it >needs to grok one of Ghostscript's output formats. I'd prefer a serial >interface (got plenty of ports on several machines), but those are >pretty rare on printers these days. Ethernet would be fine, if it's not >too expensive. And, naturally, this'll go on a FreeBSD system. Your request for serial/ethernet really knocks the choices above out of the running, although I think that one of the cheap lasers has serial. >Thanks. >--Sean -- bryan k ogawa http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 05:05:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07819 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07810 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA18247 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:05:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018234; Wed, 17 Sep 97 07:04:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA24194 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:04:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:04:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mestery To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: C++ to C convertor?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a quick question... Hey all, does anyone know of any available C++ to C converers out there? My company is looking to use one short-term to solve some of the toolset problems we are having with the StrongARM not having any c++ compilers available yet. Just curious if anyone knows of any. It would be great if one was available for FreeBSD so we could talk our managers into buying some more FreeBSD machines! The one we have (single PPro 200) blows away the dual UltraSparcs at certain things, like compiling. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 06:01:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09770 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09764 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA29208 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:02:03 -0700 (PDT) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Current status of registration counter, just FYI. Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:02:03 -0700 Message-ID: <29204.874501323@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There are 12035 users registered in total. Counts by OS version (top 15 entries): 2.2.2-RELEASE: 7738 2.2.1-RELEASE: 2831 2.2-RELEASE: 641 2.1.7.1-RELEASE: 345 2.2-970625-RELENG: 66 2.2-GAMMA: 47 3.0-970618-SNAP: 39 3.0-970807-SNAP: 38 2.2-970422-RELENG: 30 2.2-970815-RELENG: 25 3.0-970502-SNAP: 24 3.0-970621-SNAP: 21 3.0-970512-SNAP: 20 2.2-970618-RELENG: 19 3.0-970527-SNAP: 12 The very first registration arrived on May 10th, basically just a little over 4 months ago. 3000 registrations a month isn't bad! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 06:38:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11139 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11126; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199709171337.GAA11126@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Testimonial To: softweyr@xmission.com (Wes Peters) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jamie@itribe.net, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709170539.XAA01591@obie.softweyr.ml.org> from "Wes Peters" at Sep 16, 97 11:39:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wes Peters wrote: > > Jamie Bowden writes, w.r.t. non-disclosure of I2O driver code: > > This is one place where the GPL may do some good. Once one of those > > commercial Linux people join and start diddling the source, they are bound > > by copyleft to distribute it. Which takes precedence in that case? > > Well, since the I2O NDA says "you can't show I2O source code to anyone > who isn't a member of I2O" and copyleft says "if you use this, you have > to give away the source code" you end up with: > > "If you develop copylefted I2O drivers, you can only > distribute them to I2O members" > > This doesn't violate either agreement, but it certainly makes the > drivers nearly worthless. not at all, one needs an organization that becomes a member of I2O. that organization has many members. membership cards are distributed with the CD-ROM. membership cost is included in the price of the CD-ROM. i aint no lawyer. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 07:03:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12354 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [207.107.138.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12337 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA09224; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Wolfram Schneider cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970917005153.45106@panke.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > $ uptime > 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 > ^^^ scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uname -a FreeBSD zeus.trends.ca 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed Jul 17 02:24:10 EDT 1996 scrappy@zeus.trends.ca:/usr/src/sys/compile/zeus i386 scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 No users, as its being used as a PostgreSQL database server for the accounting system on an ISP... Marc G. Fournier scrappy@hub.org Systems Administrator @ hub.org scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 07:04:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12460 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12442 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24607; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:03:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:03:54 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Josef Grosch cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printer recommendation In-Reply-To: <19970916231747.19746@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Josef Grosch wrote: > printer. When your printer dies in 6 years or so just tell yourself, "I got > my money's worth" Ya, but I use it infrequently enough that I prefer to just curse at it when I do use it....I'd much rather spend money on a new monitor, tape drive, memory or something like that. :) -john From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 07:32:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16080 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user5243@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA16075 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 17 Sep 1997 14:36:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:36:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Wolfram Schneider , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uname -a > FreeBSD zeus.trends.ca 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed Jul 17 02:24:10 EDT 1996 scrappy@zeus.trends.ca:/usr/src/sys/compile/zeus i386 > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > No users, as its being used as a PostgreSQL database server for > the accounting system on an ISP... IS there a decent SQL-based database for FreeBSD? (I do NOT want to hear anyone say mSQL... because it is slow as hell and featureless). We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for FreeBSD. What is PostgreSQL? Sounds interesting... Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it MUST work reliably. I would much rather have this system on FreeBSD, not only for the obvious price advantage, but also for ease of administration. I don't want to have to switch gears all the time to find files, don't want to deal w/ NIS, and don't want to support Sun. FreeBSD is MUCH MUCH easier to maintain (thanks to you guys!). Any recommendations? TIA, Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 07:37:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16337 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [207.107.138.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16330 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA13964; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Atipa cc: Wolfram Schneider , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Atipa wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uname -a > > FreeBSD zeus.trends.ca 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed Jul 17 02:24:10 EDT 1996 scrappy@zeus.trends.ca:/usr/src/sys/compile/zeus i386 > > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime > > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > > > No users, as its being used as a PostgreSQL database server for > > the accounting system on an ISP... > > IS there a decent SQL-based database for FreeBSD? (I do NOT want to hear > anyone say mSQL... because it is slow as hell and featureless). > > We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for > Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for > FreeBSD. What is PostgreSQL? Sounds interesting... check out www.postgresql.org for more details... > Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like > variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional > support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary > database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each > individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it > MUST work reliably. We are just about to release 6.2, which has had *alot* of work put into it to improve speed issues, with alot of stuff planned for v6.3 to improve that further. Marc G. Fournier scrappy@hub.org Systems Administrator @ hub.org scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 08:09:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17650 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17635 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA02124; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709171513.JAA02124@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Kyle Mestery CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: C++ to C convertor?? In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kyle Mestery writes: > Hey all, does anyone know of any available C++ to C converers out there? > My company is looking to use one short-term to solve some of the toolset > problems we are having with the StrongARM not having any c++ compilers > available yet. Just curious if anyone knows of any. It would be great if > one was available for FreeBSD so we could talk our managers into buying > some more FreeBSD machines! The one we have (single PPro 200) blows away > the dual UltraSparcs at certain things, like compiling. Doesn't GCC support the StrongARM? I know NetBSD is up and running on the SA-110, DEC has a port of it. You should just be able to build a cross-compiler using a.out format. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 08:45:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19645 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19640 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17842; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017797; Wed, 17 Sep 97 10:43:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA03760; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:43:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:43:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mestery To: Wes Peters cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-Reply-To: <199709171513.JAA02124@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Doesn't GCC support the StrongARM? I know NetBSD is up and running on > the SA-110, DEC has a port of it. You should just be able to build a > cross-compiler using a.out format. > They do support the StrongARM, both NetBSD and gcc. The problem lies in the fact that my company is on the bleeding edge of all of this. We have an ebsa285 eval board, which has not only a StronARM, but also a footbridge chip, the 21285 core Logic. The problem is, the compiler DEC ships supports only C and a mangled assembly for the ARM that is different than the GNU assembly. We will have a c++ compiler from WindRiver in Dec, but until then we would like to find a converter. We are looking into Comeau Computing's converter, as it is the only thing I have found so far. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 09:18:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21832 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21825 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA01611; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:17:32 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:17:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199709171617.SAA01611@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Kyle Mestery CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Kyle Mestery's message of Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:04:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Just a quick question... > > Hey all, does anyone know of any available C++ to C converers out there? > My company is looking to use one short-term to solve some of the toolset > problems we are having with the StrongARM not having any c++ compilers > available yet. Just curious if anyone knows of any. Check with AT&T for Cfront (the original C++ compiler, compiling to C). Other than that, SAS institute had a C++ to C compiler (not converter - it is more advanced than that), and something called Green Leaf Systems (? search old comp.sys.amiga.programmer archives to be certain) had one. I've not been into this market for almost 4 years, so I have no idea on the current state-of-the-art. Perhaps a C backend for GCC would be feasible to implement? I know there was some work on one, but haven't heard anything about this for almost a year. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 09:57:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24821 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24643; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199709171655.JAA24643@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org To: freebsd@atipa.com (Atipa) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Atipa" at Sep 17, 97 08:36:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Atipa wrote: > > > > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uname -a > > FreeBSD zeus.trends.ca 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed Jul 17 02:24:10 EDT 1996 scrappy@zeus.trends.ca:/usr/src/sys/compile/zeus i386 > > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime > > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > > > No users, as its being used as a PostgreSQL database server for > > the accounting system on an ISP... > > IS there a decent SQL-based database for FreeBSD? (I do NOT want to hear > anyone say mSQL... because it is slow as hell and featureless). > > We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for > Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for > FreeBSD. What is PostgreSQL? Sounds interesting... Take a look at www.infoflex.com. they have a replacement for Informix ESQL/C and Informix-SE. even though they do not mention FreeBSD, it is available for FreeBSD. they hope to have an html entry for the gallery ready on monday. jmb > > Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like > variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional > support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary > database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each > individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it > MUST work reliably. > > I would much rather have this system on FreeBSD, not only for the obvious > price advantage, but also for ease of administration. I don't want to > have to switch gears all the time to find files, don't want to deal w/ > NIS, and don't want to support Sun. FreeBSD is MUCH MUCH easier to > maintain (thanks to you guys!). > > Any recommendations? > > TIA, > Kevin > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 11:20:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29708 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29702 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA26451 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:20:38 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA01447; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:19:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970917201923.JS48668@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:19:23 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org References: <19970917005153.45106@panke.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Sep 17, 1997 10:03:25 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As The Hermit Hacker wrote: > scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 bonnie.tcd-dresden.de (inofficial domain name, don't ask DNS) has recently been reported to have reached 365. It's still running FreeBSD 1.1.5.1, and probably won't ever run something else. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 11:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01018 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr02.primenet.com (tlambert@usr02.primenet.com [206.165.6.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01012 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01059; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:40:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709171840.LAA01059@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? To: jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:40:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709161246.IAA03466@gatekeeper.itribe.net> from "Jamie Bowden" at Sep 16, 97 08:54:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You don't. This is the tax God levies on infidels who conform to > > shitty standards. The universe has no pity on morons, nor should we. > > Mankind will never advance if nature does not punish stupidity and > > reward intelligence. Now ask me about seatbelt laws. 8-). > > So tell us about seatbelt laws Terry. :-) When someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and they get into an accident, and they die, average human intelligence goes up. Only an idiot will not wear a seatbelt, given the Emirical data about their effectiveness. When we legislate fines for not wearing a seatbelt, we are saving only those people who are (1) too stupid to wear seatbelts out of self protection and (2) too geedy to part with whatever small fine results (usually, it's a secondary offense, meaning they can only cite you for it if they stop you for something else, so these people are the people who get stopped for endangering the public anyway). In other words, we are rewarding stupidity. Better to let nature take its course, and reward intelligence. Most "public safety" legislation falls into this category. It's like imposing a $50 fine on an astronaut who goes out of the capsule without checking his helmet seals: what's the point? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 12:19:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03630 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03607 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) id JAA02546; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:16:49 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199709171916.JAA02546@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Atipa at "Sep 17, 97 08:36:13 am" To: freebsd@atipa.com (Atipa) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:16:49 -1000 (HST) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk MySQL (http://www.tcx.se) Look like it has all you are looking for. >IS there a decent SQL-based database for FreeBSD? (I do NOT want to hear >anyone say mSQL... because it is slow as hell and featureless). > >We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for >Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for >FreeBSD. What is PostgreSQL? Sounds interesting... > >Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like >variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional >support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary >database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each >individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it >MUST work reliably. > >I would much rather have this system on FreeBSD, not only for the obvious >price advantage, but also for ease of administration. I don't want to >have to switch gears all the time to find files, don't want to deal w/ >NIS, and don't want to support Sun. FreeBSD is MUCH MUCH easier to >maintain (thanks to you guys!). > >Any recommendations? > >TIA, >Kevin > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 12:37:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04604 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user11200@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04599 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 17 Sep 1997 19:41:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:41:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: David Langford cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709171916.JAA02546@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, David Langford wrote: > MySQL (http://www.tcx.se) > > Look like it has all you are looking for. > It does appear to be feature-full. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks, Kevin You have a very interesting home page incidentally! :) It's cool to see FreeBSD in bio-warfare. (www.dihelix.com) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 14:24:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12160 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iconz.co.nz (iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12149 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.iconz.co.nz (status.gen.nz [202.14.100.1]) by iconz.co.nz (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA04483 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:17:37 +1200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.iconz.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id JAA13743 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:17:24 +1200 Received: from tui.pinnacle.co.nz (tui.pinnacle.co.nz [202.37.163.3]) by kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12269 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:15:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (jonc@localhost) by tui.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10872 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:15:37 +1200 (NZST) X-Authentication-Warning: tui.pinnacle.co.nz: jonc owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:15:37 +1200 (NZST) From: Jonathan Chen To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Atipa wrote: [snip] > We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for > Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for > FreeBSD. I'm always crossing my fingers and hoping that at least one of the big database vendors (Oracle, Informix, Sybase ..) will release a native version for FreeBSD, or even Linux. Nice dream.. -- Jonathan Chen e-mail : jonc@pinnacle.co.nz Pinnacle Software Ltd Voice : +64.9.415.4460 Auckland, New Zealand Fax : +64.9.415.4250 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 14:57:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13819 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.gel.usherb.ca (zeus.gel.usherb.ca [132.210.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13814 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from castor.gel.usherb.ca by zeus.gel.usherb.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27137; Wed, 17 Sep 97 17:56:51 EDT Received: by castor.gel.usherb.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA05834; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:56:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alex.Boisvert" To: Atipa Cc: The Hermit Hacker , Wolfram Schneider , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > IS there a decent SQL-based database for FreeBSD? (I do NOT want to hear > anyone say mSQL... because it is slow as hell and featureless). > > We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for > Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for > FreeBSD. What is PostgreSQL? Sounds interesting... > > Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like > variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional > support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary > database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each > individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it > MUST work reliably. > You can have a look at SOLID Server, which is a commercial SQL engine available on many platforms: Win95/WinNT and some Unix flavors. Linux is among the supported platforms and the product has been reported to work fine on FreeBSD 2.2 and above. It's small, fast and there's even a trial version available on the web. More details? www.solidtech.com Regards, Alex. PS: I'm a satisfied customer on WinNT. I haven't tried it under FreeBSD/Linux. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 15:25:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15506 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15484 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04320; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07929; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:06:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:06:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Terry Lambert cc: Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: <199709171840.LAA01059@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > When someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and they get into an accident, > and they die, average human intelligence goes up. Only an idiot And the genetic diversity of our species decreases, reducing our species's ability to resist various plagues and what-not. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 15:47:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16433 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16423 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00439 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:15:09 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709172245.IAA00439@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CDROM image In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:47:21 MST." <1056.874522041@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:15:05 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > They've split it into smaller files. Thank God. > > I don't think I'd be interested in doing this, but I might be willing > to just put the raw images that I use up for FTP. The way I see it, > if you're a sophisticated enough user that you're burning your own > CDROMs, you're smart enough to use ftp reget if your connection dies > in the middle. ;-) The only people I see actually finding this useful are those that are : - sophisticated enough to have a CD burner and some hope of driving it - too short on resources to cut their own release - too stupid to wait a little while and *buy* the damn disk when it is released by WC I think we could save these three guys some effort by buying them a beer and stealing their hardware. mike 8) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 15:59:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17069 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17060 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00509; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:27:06 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709172257.IAA00509@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jonathan Chen cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:15:37 +1200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:27:01 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Atipa wrote: > > [snip] > > We just dropped a bunch of cash on Informix's Online Workgroup Server for > > Sparc becauses I could not find any professional quality database for > > FreeBSD. > > I'm always crossing my fingers and hoping that at least one of the big > database vendors (Oracle, Informix, Sybase ..) will release a native > version for FreeBSD, or even Linux. Why, when there are plenty of good databases already available? (Nobody has mentioned Conetic's product yet either, and they were one of the first database vendors to port to FreeBSD). OBTW, there are more than a few people running Oracle 7 for SCO on FreeBSD; ask Pedro for a reference if you're interested. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 16:33:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18493 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18483 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27303; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:32:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CDROM image In-Reply-To: <199709172245.IAA00439@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > They've split it into smaller files. Thank God. > > > > I don't think I'd be interested in doing this, but I might be willing > > to just put the raw images that I use up for FTP. The way I see it, > > if you're a sophisticated enough user that you're burning your own > > CDROMs, you're smart enough to use ftp reget if your connection dies > > in the middle. ;-) > > The only people I see actually finding this useful are those that are : > > - sophisticated enough to have a CD burner and some hope of driving it > - too short on resources to cut their own release > - too stupid to wait a little while and *buy* the damn disk when it > is released by WC > > I think we could save these three guys some effort by buying them a > beer and stealing their hardware. Haha!! ... this one goes into my archives. Thanks. > > mike > > > 8) > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 16:35:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18661 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr04.primenet.com (tlambert@usr04.primenet.com [206.165.6.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18656 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15188; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:34:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709172334.QAA15188@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? To: hoek@hwcn.org Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:34:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jamie@itribe.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Sep 17, 97 05:06:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > When someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and they get into an accident, > > and they die, average human intelligence goes up. Only an idiot > > And the genetic diversity of our species decreases, reducing our > species's ability to resist various plagues and what-not. Morons are more prolific, mostly because they don't think about the consequences of their actions. They're also much more efficient disease vectors, for the same reason. I guess it's possible that a larger group of more diverse people with 60 I.Q.'s could come up with a vaccine for the next epidemic... sort of the "million monkeys at typewriters" applied to biochemistry. But I kind of doubt it, somehow. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 16:56:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19766 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19758 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id TAA04095; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id TAA05884; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:56:32 -0400 (EDT) To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Atipa , Wolfram Schneider , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:37:37 EDT." Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:56:31 -0400 Message-ID: <5882.874540591@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Hermit Hacker wrote in message ID : > > Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like > > variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional > > support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary > > database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each > > individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it > > MUST work reliably. > > We are just about to release 6.2, which has had *alot* of work put > into it to improve speed issues, with alot of stuff planned for v6.3 to > improve that further. Hows the ODBC support? The last time I checked the freeware odbc `veneers' for PostgreSQL, they were sadly lacking, which stopped me deploying it :( Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 16:59:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19866 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19859 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id TAA04563; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id TAA06021; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:59:42 -0400 (EDT) To: Kyle Mestery cc: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:43:53 CDT." Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:59:41 -0400 Message-ID: <6019.874540781@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kyle Mestery wrote in message ID : > They do support the StrongARM, both NetBSD and gcc. The problem lies in > the fact that my company is on the bleeding edge of all of this. We have > an ebsa285 eval board, which has not only a StronARM, but also a > footbridge chip, the 21285 core Logic. The problem is, the compiler DEC > ships supports only C and a mangled assembly for the ARM that is different > than the GNU assembly. ``mangled assembly''? :-) I bet its a version of the Acorn ARM assembler. It should understand .o, and should have its own linker. So you can compile the stuff using gcc on another box, and take it over to the devel env and link (in theory). That is assuming that DEC didn't use a proprietary assembler. Any idea what the DEC compiler is called? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 17:29:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22014 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22009 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00941 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:56:54 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709180026.JAA00941@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:34:19 GMT." <199709172334.QAA15188@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:56:49 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > When someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and they get into an accident, > > > and they die, average human intelligence goes up. Only an idiot > > > > And the genetic diversity of our species decreases, reducing our > > species's ability to resist various plagues and what-not. This is somewhat of a nonsequiter. More specifically, losing a few isolated idiots in car accidents is not likely to substantially dent the human gene pool. Moreover, given the highly incestuous nature of car-owning societies most of the individual's genestock is likely to be redundant, unless they've been out in the sun or near a radiation source for too long. OTOH, a few isolated morons Di-ing (Dodi-ing?) due to lack of seatbelt precautions can provide hours of amusement and humour to the rest of the population. (You should try laughing about *that* one in a Commonwealth nation 8) > Morons are more prolific, mostly because they don't think about the > consequences of their actions. They're also much more efficient disease > vectors, for the same reason. That puts it far better than I could. 8) > I guess it's possible that a larger group of more diverse people with > 60 I.Q.'s could come up with a vaccine for the next epidemic... sort > of the "million monkeys at typewriters" applied to biochemistry. > > But I kind of doubt it, somehow. 8-). But they're cheaper than lab rats, and generally more durable. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 18:39:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25570 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25557; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12421; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012381; Wed, 17 Sep 97 20:39:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA12869; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:39:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:39:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mestery To: Gary Palmer cc: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-Reply-To: <6019.874540781@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > ``mangled assembly''? :-) > =) Yeah, I meant that it is not syntactically like gnu ARM assembly. > I bet its a version of the Acorn ARM assembler. It should understand > .o, and should have its own linker. So you can compile the stuff using > gcc on another box, and take it over to the devel env and link (in > theory). That is assuming that DEC didn't use a proprietary assembler. > Bingo. They use an object file format called Arm Object Format. Not supported by gnu gcc. > Any idea what the DEC compiler is called? > Actually, it is from ARM. It is part of the ARM Software Development Kit. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 19:02:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26784 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26779 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id WAA27602; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id WAA18058; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:02:51 -0400 (EDT) To: Kyle Mestery cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:39:06 CDT." Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:02:51 -0400 Message-ID: <18041.874548171@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kyle Mestery wrote in message ID : > > I bet its a version of the Acorn ARM assembler. It should understand > > .o, and should have its own linker. So you can compile the stuff using > > gcc on another box, and take it over to the devel env and link (in > > theory). That is assuming that DEC didn't use a proprietary assembler. > Bingo. They use an object file format called Arm Object Format. Not > supported by gnu gcc. It is (or was atleast). Not in the official gnu stuff, but I *KNOW* for a fact I was mixing GNU CC compiled stuff and Acorn's as output (mind you, it *WAS* the Acorn Archimedes version of GCC, and probably had a mangled backend to support Acorns as format). I know 'cos I have a hard drive at home with a linked (ARM) version of the freebsd kernel :) (non-functional, unfortunately) > Actually, it is from ARM. It is part of the ARM Software Development Kit. Aha. It'll be standard Acorn AS then I bet. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the Norcrosft C Compiler either. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 20:23:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA01283 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (root@ppp-147.halifax-01.ican.net [206.231.248.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01268; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (scrappy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA03622; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:23:09 -0300 (ADT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:23:08 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Gary Palmer cc: Atipa , Wolfram Schneider , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Database was: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5882.874540591@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote in message ID > : > > > Speed is definitely a must, along with some nice features, like > > > variable-length strings, BLOB support, nice CLI interface, professional > > > support, and most importantly reliability. It will be used as a primary > > > database for inventory tracking (about 400-2000 parts / day, each > > > individually trackable w/ serial number), invoicing, warranty, etc., so it > > > MUST work reliably. > > > > We are just about to release 6.2, which has had *alot* of work put > > into it to improve speed issues, with alot of stuff planned for v6.3 to > > improve that further. > > Hows the ODBC support? The last time I checked the freeware odbc > `veneers' for PostgreSQL, they were sadly lacking, which stopped me > deploying it :( Hrmmm...I haven't gotten into much JDBC/ODBC work yet, but v6.2 includes JDBC drivers as part of the distribution. Not sure about the PostODBC project though, but the "Third Party" page off of the web site lists three: FreeODBC Openlink (Commercial product) PostODBC I know Openlink was working on a FreeBSD port, but its been so long since I've gone to look, I don't know where things stand. Being curious though: PostODBC doesn't seem to have had any changes since March 2nd, 1997, or at least nothing new on its home page. FreeODBC seems to be pretty dead from around that time too And OpenLink's site seems to have grown into a maze :( Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 20:47:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02368 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (jonny@[146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02356 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11329; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:46:17 -0300 (EST) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199709180346.AAA11329@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: CDROM image In-Reply-To: <199709172245.IAA00439@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Sep 18, 97 08:15:05 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:46:17 -0300 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #define quoting(Mike Smith) // > > They've split it into smaller files. Thank God. // > // > I don't think I'd be interested in doing this, but I might be willing // > to just put the raw images that I use up for FTP. The way I see it, // > if you're a sophisticated enough user that you're burning your own // > CDROMs, you're smart enough to use ftp reget if your connection dies // > in the middle. ;-) // // The only people I see actually finding this useful are those that are : // // - sophisticated enough to have a CD burner and some hope of driving it // - too short on resources to cut their own release // - too stupid to wait a little while and *buy* the damn disk when it // is released by WC Don't forget those with the burner, too sloppy to learn how to make release (is it really easy now ?) and living in a country with stupid import taxes and (snail) mailing system. (ME !!!) Just for the sake of my curiosity, would it work to make a symlink to /dev/rcd0c and leave the CD in drive ? // I think we could save these three guys some effort by buying them a // beer and stealing their hardware. Change beer for some cola, and we may deal. :) Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 21:36:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05453 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05442 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03896; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA19689; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:37:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:37:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: <199709180026.JAA00941@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > And the genetic diversity of our species decreases, reducing our > > > species's ability to resist various plagues and what-not. > > This is somewhat of a nonsequiter. More specifically, losing a few > isolated idiots in car accidents is not likely to substantially dent > the human gene pool. Of course, the same argument says that their loss will not make a significant difference in the average intelligence. Further, given the more pragmatic reason of wanting to save idiots for the purposes of doing grunt work, it would seem to be worthwhile to save them. > OTOH, a few isolated morons Di-ing (Dodi-ing?) due to lack of seatbelt > precautions can provide hours of amusement and humour to the rest of > the population. Well, this is true... :-) Of course, the intelligentia of the population are overly concernced about the things intelligentia are usually concerned about. Therefore, smart people will make bad parents, but morons will be good, and, as a result, they will raise smart children. We must kill all the smart people. [Uh oh. No time to don a flame suit. Just run!! :] -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 22:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA09153 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09148 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA02750; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709180554.XAA02750@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Kyle Mestery CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-Reply-To: References: <199709171513.JAA02124@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kyle Mestery writes: > [about GCC vs. StrongARM] > They do support the StrongARM, both NetBSD and gcc. The problem lies in > the fact that my company is on the bleeding edge of all of this. We have > an ebsa285 eval board, which has not only a StronARM, but also a > footbridge chip, the 21285 core Logic. The problem is, the compiler DEC > ships supports only C and a mangled assembly for the ARM that is different > than the GNU assembly. We will have a c++ compiler from WindRiver in Dec, > but until then we would like to find a converter. We are looking into > Comeau Computing's converter, as it is the only thing I have found so far. Ah. If you poke around in the 'target' files, you may find one for the Archimedes load format. In the meantime, couldn't you prototype some of your code just using GCC on FreeBSD? I've found this handy; both the HTTP and DNS servers in the InternetStation were prototyped on FreeBSD before being ported to VxWorks. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 23:03:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09706 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09699 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA02765; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709180606.AAA02765@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: hoek@hwcn.org CC: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: References: <199709171840.LAA01059@usr02.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tim Vanderhoek writes: > > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > When someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and they get into an accident, > > and they die, average human intelligence goes up. Only an idiot > > And the genetic diversity of our species decreases, reducing our > species's ability to resist various plagues and what-not. Yeah, but who cares if the doofs survive? Would you want to be the last intelligent person on a planet populated soley with sales dweebs, marketroids, and multi-level-marketeers? Besides, even if you discount the stupid people, we'd still have a million or so people in North America - half who *are* using FreeBSD, and the other half would if they just knew about it. That's probably enough diversity to survive anything short of nuclear winter or a large meteor strike. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 23:05:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09828 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09821 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA11207 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:04:13 +1000 Received: from localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with SMTP id QAA00859; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:02:53 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199709180602.QAA00859@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Uptime wars! (was: uptime on hub.freebsd.org) References: In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:03:25 +0000" Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:02:52 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wednesday, 17th September 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote: >On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > >> $ uptime >> 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 >> ^^^ >scrappy@zeus.trends.ca> uptime >10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > No users, as its being used as a PostgreSQL database server for >the accounting system on an ISP... I never thought I'd have an entry in the Uptime Wars. So, I was pleasantly surprised to find a colleague fiddling with an old 486 I set up ages ago in a dank corner of the machine room to manage ppp over 2 leased lines to outlying offices. "Is anyone still using this?", I ask. "Every day", he replies, "In fact, I'm adding more users." $ uptime 3:17PM up 356 days, 23:56, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 So, we can have a birthday beer for it round the pub next Friday afternoon. It runs 2.0.5 and seems to have a peaceful and productive existence. Stephen. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 17 23:09:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09993 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09988 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA02771; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709180613.AAA02771@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk? In-Reply-To: <199709180026.JAA00941@word.smith.net.au> References: <199709172334.QAA15188@usr04.primenet.com> <199709180026.JAA00941@word.smith.net.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith writes: > OTOH, a few isolated morons Di-ing (Dodi-ing?) due to lack of seatbelt > precautions can provide hours of amusement and humour to the rest of > the population. > > (You should try laughing about *that* one in a Commonwealth nation 8) Can't be any worse than seeing Peter Jennings telling us how Di was "America's Princess." And I thought that was Madonna. Or was it Maria Shriver? Gag me with a bulldozer. Terry Lambert opined: % I guess it's possible that a larger group of more diverse people with % 60 I.Q.'s could come up with a vaccine for the next epidemic... sort % of the "million monkeys at typewriters" applied to biochemistry. % % But I kind of doubt it, somehow. 8-). > But they're cheaper than lab rats, and generally more durable. And the staff doesn't get so emotionally attached to them... BTW: Did anybody notice the change in subject? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 00:21:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA14574 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14559 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA20863; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:51:29 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970918165129.53111@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:51:29 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Lab rats (was: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk?) References: <199709172334.QAA15188@usr04.primenet.com> <199709180026.JAA00941@word.smith.net.au> <199709180613.AAA02771@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709180613.AAA02771@obie.softweyr.ml.org>; from Wes Peters on Thu, Sep 18, 1997 at 12:13:59AM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Sep 18, 1997 at 12:13:59AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Mike Smith writes: >> OTOH, a few isolated morons Di-ing (Dodi-ing?) due to lack of seatbelt >> precautions can provide hours of amusement and humour to the rest of >> the population. >> >> (You should try laughing about *that* one in a Commonwealth nation 8) > > Can't be any worse than seeing Peter Jennings telling us how Di was > "America's Princess." And I thought that was Madonna. Or was it Maria > Shriver? > > Gag me with a bulldozer. > > > Terry Lambert opined: >> I guess it's possible that a larger group of more diverse people with >> 60 I.Q.'s could come up with a vaccine for the next epidemic... sort >> of the "million monkeys at typewriters" applied to biochemistry. >> >> But I kind of doubt it, somehow. 8-). > >> But they're cheaper than lab rats, and generally more durable. > > And the staff doesn't get so emotionally attached to them... > > BTW: Did anybody notice the change in subject? ;^) I did, since you changed it. It looks like I've been deleting an interesting discussion because of the uninteresting subject. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 02:26:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA21486 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21480 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00331; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:53:59 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709180923.SAA00331@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Wes Peters , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lab rats (was: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:51:29 +0930." <19970918165129.53111@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:53:58 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > BTW: Did anybody notice the change in subject? ;^) > > I did, since you changed it. It looks like I've been deleting an > interesting discussion because of the uninteresting subject. You guys > should be ashamed of yourselves. For the content, or the subjective subterfuge? mike From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 03:00:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22977 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22906 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA26759; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:29:50 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970918192950.58351@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:29:50 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Wes Peters , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lab rats (was: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk?) References: <19970918165129.53111@lemis.com> <199709180923.SAA00331@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709180923.SAA00331@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Sep 18, 1997 at 06:53:58PM +0930 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Sep 18, 1997 at 06:53:58PM +0930, Mike Smith wrote: >>> BTW: Did anybody notice the change in subject? ;^) >> >> I did, since you changed it. It looks like I've been deleting an >> interesting discussion because of the uninteresting subject. You guys >> should be ashamed of yourselves. > > For the content, or the subjective subterfuge? For the subterfuge, of course. Here you are having interesting discussions under the pretext of memory leaks. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 03:13:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA23740 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA23718 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA04960; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:13:34 -0700 (PDT) To: Wes Peters cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:13:59 MDT." <199709180613.AAA02771@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:13:34 -0700 Message-ID: <4957.874577614@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can't be any worse than seeing Peter Jennings telling us how Di was > "America's Princess." And I thought that was Madonna. Or was it Maria > Shriver? Barbara Streisand. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 03:56:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA28259 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA28253 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA05084; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:38 -0700 (PDT) To: Wes Peters cc: hoek@hwcn.org, Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:06:38 MDT." <199709180606.AAA02765@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:37 -0700 Message-ID: <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yeah, but who cares if the doofs survive? Would you want to be the last > intelligent person on a planet populated soley with sales dweebs, > marketroids, and multi-level-marketeers? Ah, a segue into my favorite subject: The progressively increasing interference in proper evolution by western society! Consider your standard evolutionary scenario: An organism lives in a semi-hostile environment and, in fending off various natural hazards, not only prunes the weaker percentage of its gene pool but also evolves to cope more effectively with those hazards, through this process often gaining new abilities (and I do realize that other abilities might also be lost in the process, I'm simply saying that the organism's growth is kept dynamic). Now you have us humans, populating the earth in ever increasing numbers and let's face it: even though few are willing to say it in so many words just yet, unless our population growth declines extremely rapidly and RSN, a heck of a lot of somebodies are going to have to go at some point! What do we do about this, however? We work steadily on making it easier to raise even more kids through better health care and food distribution and, once those kids are adults, keep them alive by progressively eliminating all potential hazards until the only significant remaining hazard is ourselves (*gulp* uh oh!). I say sod that, it's time for a little more self-imposed genetic discipline. Instead of working so damn hard to dumb-down each and every single product, legislating heavily against any form of activity which might be even remotely dangerous and nurturing a complex system of liability laws which allow the stupid to collect rich rewards on their unique ability to injure themselves, screw it, I say we throw that whole approach out. We give up this silly crusade to file the sharp edges off of everything in life and, instead, we leave the edges alone and enhance our educational system with more "how to avoid getting cut on the sharp edges of life" classes. Those students who pay attention to the lessons and retain this knowledge survive and those who hide in the boy's room smoking cigarettes and lack any natural cunning in recompense, don't. No big loss at all. In fact, in addition to tearing off all the warning labels and throwing out the laws which say you can't freely purchase and play with high explosives if you really want to (though blowing up others without their consent would still, of course, be a seriously punishable offense), you'd maybe even go one step further. Every year, by law, a small but significant percentage of truly *dangerous* products would be made and released in the "thrill seeker" category. Only a small logo would identify the product as dangerous, no other clue giving any indication of exactly *how* it was dangerous - that would be up to the user to figure out. If you were injured or killed while using a thrill seeker product, federal liability law would require everyone to laugh at you for some period afterwards, but that'd be about the extent of its coverage. If you sought legal remedy, of course the courts would laugh even harder. I figure this would replace the lions and tigers and other useful natural hazards which we used to have but have long since eradicated. It would also, IMHO, make life a lot more interesting than it is now. ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 03:59:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA28342 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA28329 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00321; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:25:45 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709181055.UAA00321@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CDROM image In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:46:17 -0300." <199709180346.AAA11329@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:25:43 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > #define quoting(Mike Smith) > // The only people I see actually finding this useful are those that are : > // > // - sophisticated enough to have a CD burner and some hope of driving it > // - too short on resources to cut their own release > // - too stupid to wait a little while and *buy* the damn disk when it > // is released by WC > > Don't forget those with the burner, too sloppy to learn how to make > release (is it really easy now ?) and living in a country with > stupid import taxes and (snail) mailing system. (ME !!!) You didn't claim to have poor 'net connectivity. Why not download the files and burn your own release? 8) (Yes, building a release is a piece of the proverbial yellow stuff, providing you have the requisite space and time.) > Just for the sake of my curiosity, would it work to make a symlink to > /dev/rcd0c and leave the CD in drive ? You'd end up with a symlink to /dev/rcd0c and a disk in the drive. If that qualifies as "working", then yes, it'd work. > // I think we could save these three guys some effort by buying them a > // beer and stealing their hardware. > > Change beer for some cola, and we may deal. :) Sure; I don't drink the stuff much (beer), so it's mostly good for bribing people with. mike From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 04:47:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA00557 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA00549 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11158; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:47:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011142; Thu, 18 Sep 97 06:47:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA18492; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:47:12 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:47:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mestery To: Wes Peters cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? In-Reply-To: <199709180554.XAA02750@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Ah. If you poke around in the 'target' files, you may find one for the > Archimedes load format. In the meantime, couldn't you prototype some of > your code just using GCC on FreeBSD? I've found this handy; both the > HTTP and DNS servers in the InternetStation were prototyped on FreeBSD > before being ported to VxWorks. > Well, we have been using a software simulator so far that has been working pretty well. But we need to start running stuff on DECs eval board and on our own boards pretty soon. Oh well. right now we are probably going to use the Comeau Computing C++Compiler. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 05:04:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA01706 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA01582 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00617 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:30:34 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199709181200.VAA00617@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:56:37 MST." <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:30:28 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [... thrillseeker products ...] > would be up to the user to figure out. If you were injured or killed > while using a thrill seeker product, federal liability law would > require everyone to laugh at you for some period afterwards, but > that'd be about the extent of its coverage. If you sought legal > remedy, of course the courts would laugh even harder. You're getting a grant from the Darwin Awards people, aren't you? mike From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 05:59:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03969 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03959 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (mfd-dial1-29.cybercom.net [209.21.137.29]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA05595; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970918085811.0097d690@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:58:11 -0400 To: Kyle Mestery , Wes Peters From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: C++ to C convertor?? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199709180554.XAA02750@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:47 AM 9/18/97 -0500, Kyle Mestery wrote: >Well, we have been using a software simulator so far that has been working >pretty well. But we need to start running stuff on DECs eval board and on >our own boards pretty soon. Oh well. right now we are probably going to >use the Comeau Computing C++Compiler. Is Comeau still in business? I used their front end on the Amiga with the SAS/Lattice C/C++ compiler back in the day. It was a good product, but I remember trying to contact them one day and they'd just disappeared. (Much like the Amiga itself eventually did.) If you have some contact info for them, I'd be much obliged. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 07:03:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07441 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poseidon.iwt.rl.af.mil (POSEIDON.IWT.RL.AF.MIL [128.132.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07432 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rl.af.mil (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by poseidon.iwt.rl.af.mil (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11640; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34213330.5954C8E1@rl.af.mil> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:57:04 -0400 From: Charles K Green Reply-To: greenc@rl.af.mil Organization: Information Warfare X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CDROM image References: <199709172245.IAA00439@word.smith.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You left one out: - Those who work for the gov., are short on resources, and hate waiting 3 months for the government paperwork to get finished so we can purchase it. Mike Smith wrote: > > > They've split it into smaller files. Thank God. > > > > I don't think I'd be interested in doing this, but I might be willing > > to just put the raw images that I use up for FTP. The way I see it, > > if you're a sophisticated enough user that you're burning your own > > CDROMs, you're smart enough to use ftp reget if your connection dies > > in the middle. ;-) > > The only people I see actually finding this useful are those that are : > > - sophisticated enough to have a CD burner and some hope of driving it > - too short on resources to cut their own release > - too stupid to wait a little while and *buy* the damn disk when it > is released by WC > > I think we could save these three guys some effort by buying them a > beer and stealing their hardware. > > mike > > 8) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 08:19:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12299 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12288 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA06287; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:36 -0700 (PDT) To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:30:28 +0930." <199709181200.VAA00617@word.smith.net.au> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:19:36 -0700 Message-ID: <6282.874595976@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [... thrillseeker products ...] > > would be up to the user to figure out. If you were injured or killed > > while using a thrill seeker product, federal liability law would > > require everyone to laugh at you for some period afterwards, but > > that'd be about the extent of its coverage. If you sought legal > > remedy, of course the courts would laugh even harder. > > You're getting a grant from the Darwin Awards people, aren't you? Actually, they're opposed to this proposal. It would increase the pool of applicants to such an extent that the award would become essentially meaningless. ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 09:33:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17256 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17249 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA18232; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:32:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199709181632.JAA18232@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:32:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: softweyr@xmission.com, hoek@hwcn.org, tlambert@primenet.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sep 18, 97 03:56:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now you have us humans, populating the earth in ever increasing > numbers and let's face it: even though few are willing to say it in so > many words just yet, unless our population growth declines extremely > rapidly and RSN, a heck of a lot of somebodies are going to have to go > at some point! Why Thomas Malthus, as you don't live or breathe! > discipline. Instead of working so damn hard to dumb-down each and > every single product, legislating heavily against any form of activity > which might be even remotely dangerous and nurturing a complex system > of liability laws which allow the stupid to collect rich rewards on > their unique ability to injure themselves, screw it, I say we throw > that whole approach out. We give up this silly crusade to file the > sharp edges off of everything in life and, instead, we leave the edges > alone Yeah... and we can call these products "Windows"... > and enhance our educational system with more "how to avoid > getting cut on the sharp edges of life" classes. Those students who > pay attention to the lessons and retain this knowledge survive and > those who hide in the boy's room smoking cigarettes and lack any > natural cunning in recompense, don't. No big loss at all. We can call the people who pass these classes "Microsoft Certified Engineers". 8-) 8-). > I figure this would replace the lions and tigers and other useful > natural hazards which we used to have but have long since eradicated. Hey, what biodiversity advocate could argue with that? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 10:25:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20907 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.uoregon.edu (vitalstatistix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.200.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20902 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ix.cs.uoregon.edu (wcarey@ix.cs.uoregon.edu [128.223.4.21]) by cs.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14317; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:24:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Woody Carey To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lab rats (was: Memory leak in getDeadbyDrivingDrunk?) In-Reply-To: <19970918192950.58351@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: [... snip ...] > > For the content, or the subjective subterfuge? > > For the subterfuge, of course. Here you are having interesting > discussions under the pretext of memory leaks. > What, memory leak discussions are not interesting? Woody Carey wcarey@cs.uoregon.edu "Style is the encapsulation of subtlety." From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 14:12:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07145 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07121; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 28488 on Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:11:49 GMT; id VAA28488 efrom: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: (from peter@localhost) by grendel.IAEhv.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00712; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:56:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:56:02 +0200 From: Peter Korsten To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISDN Modems References: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.67e In-Reply-To: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Thu, Sep 18, 1997 at 02:32:57PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Please follow-up to freebsd-chat.) Luigi Rizzo shared with us: > > To be honest with you I thought about this for a few months, If you in the > > US the best solution is something like an Ascend Pipeline 50 router (no > > firewall) ($599), with a crossover (included) to an inexpensive NE2000 > > card ($40). This is about twice as expensive as a Motorola Bitsurfer > > I think in europe as well it is way more convenient to have a router > instead of an internal card. Prices are in fact comparable (I would say > even a little bit lower) to those mentioned above, and going through a > messy serial device driver does not help at all. The simplicity in > setting up things pays back much more than the extra cost. Personally, I think your own ISDN router is a bit overkill at home. The elegant thing about an ISDN card is that it's a digital interface, just like Ethernet, that plugs right into your computer. No fuss with wiring, just a simple RJ-45 plug and your connected to the rest of the world. This also makes a FreeBSD box with an ISDN card an ideal 'Internet- box' for a small company. Put an ISDN card plus an Ethernet in it (and pray that they don't start mixing up the UTP and ISDN connec- tors :) ) and you can use it as a dial-up proxy server, mail/uucp host, news server for selected newsgroups, firewall, you name it. You can do it with NT server too (boy, Microsoft sure is pushing it's stuff towards small companies, I noticed this week), but at far higher costs for both hardware and software. Just grab the ole' 386 off the shelves and use it with FreeBSD. > Now if ISDN cards were sold in volumes and priced reasonably (i.e. > as much as an NE2000, since they are actually simpler!) and accessed > through a dedicated device driver, then things would certainly be > different. You really don't want to know what I paid for my ISDN card: nothing. The Dutch PTT wants to shove as much ISDN connections as possible, so they have special offers once in a while where you get the ISDN connection and the card for free, when you swap you analog line. You only have the cost of an A/B-adapter then. There must be some sort of vicious scheme behind it, but I haven't been able to figure it out yet. - Peter From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 14:29:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08104 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08099 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id XAA06160; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:15:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA00908; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:00:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970918220012.65146@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:00:12 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Mike Smith Cc: Brian Tao , FREEBSD-CHAT-L Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... References: <199709170358.NAA00493@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <199709170358.NAA00493@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Sep 17, 1997 at 01:28:42PM +0930 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-970911-SNAP SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Sep 17, 1997 at 01:28:42PM +0930, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > More to the point, there usually being only one L2 cache for the two > > > CPUs, and a single P6 being more cost-effective. > > > > Do P6 motherboards typically have separate L2 cache for each CPU > > then? If so, maybe I'll buy a dual PPro motherboard, but start with > > just a single CPU. Do PPro's still have problems running 16-bit code? > > Er, the L2 cache comes *with* the P6. There are two slabs of silicon > inside it. Yes, that's exact the reason for Intel, to drop this processor ... If one of both components (cpu or cache) isn't ok, they have to throw away the whole CPU... > Most games these days are flat-model 32-bit code; W95 seems to run OK > on the P6 if that's your concern, There is no general problem executing 16-bit code ... it is only a bit slower. -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 18:51:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27915 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27906 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA07619; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970919035107.64712@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:51:07 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CDROM image References: <199709182348.BAA07130@bitbox.follo.net> <199709190129.KAA03694@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69e In-Reply-To: <199709190129.KAA03694@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 10:59:03AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 10:59:03AM +0930, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Well, for me it would probably change from doing FTP installs to using > > CDs. I'm just to impatient to wait for a CD from Walnut Creek before > > installing machines, and just go with FTP installs each time. Burning > > a CD locally would be a snap if I just had the image available. > > You don't have the resources, or the inclination to cut your own? I don't have the inclination; I have the resources. Fairly easily from a pre-made release, somewhat more reluctantly from a 'make relase'. (I seldom build a release and usually have to do some harddisk cleanup to find the diskspace). The pre-cut CDs work nicely; as do an FTP install. Why would I bother? However, with a pre-made image, it is so little work that I would :) > I'd always want to mung things to suit myself. I sometimes do, but for most boxes we install here a normal release is good enough. > > Eivind, who thought that WC wouldn't want people to be able to burn > > their own CDs that easily. > > I can't see how they'd be bothered; for most people a 650MB download is > going to cost more than the CD... Most people, yeah. But I bet there are more people than me that sit on T1s or higher, where a 650MB download just cost the line being more busy in the usually idle direction for an hour or so. (I just wish I lived somewhere where bandwidth was cheaper - we pay almost as much for the 1Mb/s we get as 100Mb/s would cost in the US.) Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 18 21:52:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA09833 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09817 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA03754; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709190333.VAA03754@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Peter Korsten CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN Modems In-Reply-To: <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> References: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Korsten writes: > Personally, I think your own ISDN router is a bit overkill at home. > The elegant thing about an ISDN card is that it's a digital interface, > just like Ethernet, that plugs right into your computer. No fuss > with wiring, just a simple RJ-45 plug and your connected to the > rest of the world. If you've got more than one computer, the ISDN router can save you in some areas. You will probably, for instance, want to keep your router turned on all the time. The InternetStation with an ISDN PC-Card *and* a 33.6 modem PC-Card inserted draws about 950 mA; quite a bit less than any PC solution you'll find. The network stack is often measurably faster as well. > This also makes a FreeBSD box with an ISDN card an ideal 'Internet- > box' for a small company. Put an ISDN card plus an Ethernet in it > (and pray that they don't start mixing up the UTP and ISDN connec- > tors :) ) and you can use it as a dial-up proxy server, mail/uucp > host, news server for selected newsgroups, firewall, you name it. True. There aren't any solutions on the market that do all of these right now, except the Whistle InterJet, but then again, it *IS* a FreeBSD box. ;^) A damned nice one, too. Most companies that want a dedicated/dial-up ISDN router with web, mail, news, etc. services would do well to get themselves an InterJet. If, on the other hand, you're still pretty small, and are going to have most of your services (mail, news, web, etc) at your ISP, small capable routers like the InternetStation and the Farallon Netopia have a lot to offer. > You can do it with NT server too (boy, Microsoft sure is pushing > it's stuff towards small companies, I noticed this week), but at > far higher costs for both hardware and software. Just grab the ole' > 386 off the shelves and use it with FreeBSD. Uck. You can probably do this with an old 386, certainly an old 486, with FreeBSD. The Netopia has a 68360 in it; the InternetStation an NS486. To do this with NT, you need a huge, power-sucking Pentium, a couple hundred megs of spinning hard disk, VGA and display - what a mess! Just say no! > > Now if ISDN cards were sold in volumes and priced reasonably (i.e. > > as much as an NE2000, since they are actually simpler!) and accessed > > through a dedicated device driver, then things would certainly be > > different. > > You really don't want to know what I paid for my ISDN card: nothing. > The Dutch PTT wants to shove as much ISDN connections as possible, > so they have special offers once in a while where you get the ISDN > connection and the card for free, when you swap you analog line. > You only have the cost of an A/B-adapter then. > > There must be some sort of vicious scheme behind it, but I haven't > been able to figure it out yet. Hmmm. I got a PC-Card T/A for free, but my company makes them. This is a sweet deal you've gotten. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 00:24:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20949 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20924 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA20235 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:24:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA12604; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:11:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970919091148.YQ55583@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:11:48 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISDN Modems References: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl>; from Peter Korsten on Sep 18, 1997 21:56:02 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Korsten wrote: > Personally, I think your own ISDN router is a bit overkill at home. > The elegant thing about an ISDN card is that it's a digital interface, > just like Ethernet, that plugs right into your computer. No fuss > with wiring, just a simple RJ-45 plug and your connected to the > rest of the world. You've got a few more advantages. The ISDN card isn't bound to only access the bearer service `64k data', you can access the voice services as well, thus making it an intelligent answer machine. Just detect the phone number of the incoming call, then decide whether to auto-answer the call or not, and how to do it. ,,Hello, my dear friend xxx. Thanks for leaving your phone number so i could recognize you. Sorry to say, i'm not at home, but you can reach me at yyyy's number.'' :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 01:06:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23512 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.lottery.co.at (gatekeeper.lottery.co.at [193.83.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA23504 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.lottery.co.at by gatekeeper.lottery.co.at (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/24Aug95-0519PM) id AA19180; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:05:56 +0200 Received: from alolgm1.lottery.co.at by mailgate.lottery.co.at (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/11Oct95-0330PM) id AA23444; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:05:54 +0200 Received: by alolgm1.lottery.co.at with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BCC4E3.9D1CC560@alolgm1.lottery.co.at>; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:05:53 +0200 Message-Id: From: Sigart Wolfgang To: "'chat@freebsd.org'" Subject: AW: FTP compromise Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:05:51 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sorry, I'm only a M$ user :-( > >Wow, an FTP compromise that causes empty email messages to be sent to >the FreeBSD security list! That's innovative! ;^) > From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 05:46:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09212 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09205 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199709191246.FAA09205@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Argh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm going to be offline for a few days, as I've just come back from dinner to discover that the office has been broken into. I'll try to check my mail every now & then, but I can't guarantee anything. Sorry chaps. Mike From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 05:56:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA10046 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onizuka.tb.9715.org (iApxAMbDyTgZRGB8n3JtsSdcPu4CFOWk@onizuka.tb.9715.org [194.97.84.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA10041 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by onizuka.tb.9715.org via sendmail with stdio id for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:54:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: From: torstenb@onizuka.tb.9715.org (Torsten Blum) Subject: Re: ISDN Modems In-Reply-To: <19970919091148.YQ55583@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Sep 19, 97 09:11:48 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:54:51 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > You've got a few more advantages. The ISDN card isn't bound to only > access the bearer service `64k data', you can access the voice > services as well, thus making it an intelligent answer machine. Just > detect the phone number of the incoming call, then decide whether to > auto-answer the call or not, and how to do it. I know at least one router that provides a ISDN API (CAPI) via IP. Call +49.89.49003434 and you'll hear my answering machine (FreeBSD + Bintec Brick Router). libcapi for the brick available with source. I'm going to make a freebsd port of it this weekend. -tb From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 08:12:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17562 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17545 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov (daemon@cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.101]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11530; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:12:21 GMT Received: from fsl.noaa.gov (auk.fsl.noaa.gov) by cardinal.fsl.noaa.gov with ESMTP (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA094021940; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:12:21 GMT Message-Id: <34229654.BB4FC866@fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:12:20 -0600 From: Sean Kelly Organization: CIRA/NOAA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/725) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISDN Modems References: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <19970919091148.YQ55583@uriah.heep.sax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ,,Hello, my dear friend xxx. Thanks for leaving your phone number so > i could recognize you. Sorry to say, i'm not at home, but you can > reach me at yyyy's number.'' > :-) Which is exactly what I'm working on in my spare time using a Motorola voicemail modem on FreeBSD. I'm addition to leaving messages, I'm also planning on having it automatically screen calls before notifying anyone home who's calling, and on having a configurable voicemail maze to frustrate telemarketers. --k From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 09:31:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22678 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22338 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) id TAA23750; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:21:42 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199709191621.TAA23750@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Sep 17, 97 10:03:25 am" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:21:41 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 just think about all those bugs and security holes in both systems... starting from procfs thing. i prefer my machines up to date, since rebooting new kernel takes machine off for just a minute or two. mickey From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 10:10:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24979 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [207.107.138.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24972 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA21122; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:00:29 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: mika ruohotie cc: wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709191621.TAA23750@shadows.aeon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, mika ruohotie wrote: > > > 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 > > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > just think about all those bugs and security holes in both systems... > > starting from procfs thing. > > i prefer my machines up to date, since rebooting new kernel > takes machine off for just a minute or two. That's great for non-production machines that don't need 24/7 uptime, but this server requires that level of uptime. A minute or two can lead to even longer if that new kernel has the slightly bug in it, something I experienced with a 'stable' kernel on a 'not-so-stable' machine awhile back :( Marc G. Fournier scrappy@hub.org Systems Administrator @ hub.org scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 10:44:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26787 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26781 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18077; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA19872; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709191744.LAA19872@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mika ruohotie Cc: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker), wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime on hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199709191621.TAA23750@shadows.aeon.net> References: <199709191621.TAA23750@shadows.aeon.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 11:42AM up 100 days, 14:29, 10 users, load averages: 0.41, 0.44, 0.47 > > 10:01AM up 279 days, 19:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > just think about all those bugs and security holes in both systems... Almost all of the bugs and security holes on those systems require accounts on those systems (except for sendmail and BIND). If you have no users, and the above two services are not externally available, then you have nothing to worry about. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 11:25:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28934 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (mail-atm.san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28916 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dt5h1n61.san.rr.com (dt5h1n61.san.rr.com [204.210.31.97]) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22327; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199709191823.LAA22327@mail.san.rr.com> From: "Studded" To: "Brian Tao" Cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 11:23:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: SMP motherboard advice... Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT), Brian Tao wrote: >BTW, I heard that the AMD K6's can do SMP now... fact or fiction? According to the AMD tech that I talked to, the cpu is capable of being used in an SMP configuration, however there are currently no motherboards that support it. The problem is the standard that the chips need to communicate between themselves (I don't remember the name of the thing, I think it was a four-letter acronym). Intel uses one standard, AMD gambled on a competing standard and lost when no mb manufacturers made chips that support it. The person I talked to said that there are negotiations for a mb manufacturer to provide these motherboards (probably gigabyte based on what I heard from other sources), but there are no concrete plans at this time. Hope this helps, Doug PS, I was disappointed too Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. -Shakespeare, "Henry V" From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 13:58:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07895 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07865 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07448; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA08878; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:59:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Wes Peters , hoek@hwcn.org, Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I say sod that, it's time for a little more self-imposed genetic > discipline. Instead of working so damn hard to dumb-down each and Heck, forget "genetic discipline"! Let's go all the way and practice eugenics! > alone and enhance our educational system with more "how to avoid > getting cut on the sharp edges of life" classes. Those students who > pay attention to the lessons and retain this knowledge survive and > those who hide in the boy's room smoking cigarettes and lack any > natural cunning in recompense, don't. No big loss at all. Yes, we could call these lessons "laws" and "pr campaigns". (I mean, really, how many people do you know who've gotten a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt? Those laws are just an advisory). > punishable offense), you'd maybe even go one step further. Every > year, by law, a small but significant percentage of truly *dangerous* > products would be made and released in the "thrill seeker" category. > Only a small logo would identify the product as dangerous, no other > clue giving any indication of exactly *how* it was dangerous - that > would be up to the user to figure out. If you were injured or killed Yes, we could have the government allow certain large corporations to market and sell these lethal products, even though the gov't knows that they are lethal. The gov't could even make tax money from these things, which we could call cigarettes. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 14:52:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11862 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11857 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19670; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21092; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709192152.PAA21092@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: hoek@hwcn.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-Reply-To: References: <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (I mean, really, how many people do you know who've gotten a > ticket for not wearing their seatbelt? Those laws are just an > advisory). Me, in Hawaii. I was sun-burned so badly that it hurt to wear a seat-belt, but did the law enforcement officers have any sympathy on me? Of course not! Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 15:43:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15441 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15435 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20111; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) To: hoek@hwcn.org cc: Wes Peters , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:59:35 EDT." Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:42:18 -0700 Message-ID: <20107.874708938@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, we could have the government allow certain large > corporations to market and sell these lethal products, even > though the gov't knows that they are lethal. The gov't could > even make tax money from these things, which we could call > cigarettes. 3 Problems: 1. Not fast enough. 2. Not dangerous enough (dangerous, yes, but not as dangerous as a brick of C4 plastic explosive or a Johnny Home Nerve Gas Experimenter's kit). 3. Not nearly interesting enough to the onlookers. If folks are going to off themselves, they might as well put some effort into making it both spectacular and entertaining for any potential television audience. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 19:35:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26737 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26732 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA05222; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709200238.UAA05222@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Sigart Wolfgang CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: AW: FTP compromise In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently blathered, in response to a null message from Sigart Wolfgang: % Wow, an FTP compromise that causes empty email messages to be sent to % the FreeBSD security list! That's innovative! ;^) Sigart Wolfgang replied: > sorry, I'm only a M$ user :-( We can *certainly* take care of that problem. FreeBSD is free, will run on the same computer you currently have infested with M$-Trash, and will help introduce you to the *real* world of the internet. Take the plunge at: http://freebsd.org -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 19:40:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27012 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27007 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA05234; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709200245.UAA05234@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Nate Williams CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory leak in getLawsByStupidity??? In-Reply-To: <199709192152.PAA21092@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <5080.874580197@time.cdrom.com> <199709192152.PAA21092@rocky.mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > > (I mean, really, how many people do you know who've gotten a > > ticket for not wearing their seatbelt? Those laws are just an > > advisory). > > Me, in Hawaii. I was sun-burned so badly that it hurt to wear a > seat-belt, but did the law enforcement officers have any sympathy on me? > Of course not! Haw! ;^) I once got a ticket for driving barefoot in Utah. From a state park ranger, no less. What, I ask you, is wrong with driving a car barefoot? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 20:21:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29189 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29178 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA22348; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:51:25 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970920125124.14990@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:51:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter Wemm Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Bastard System V (Was: Bug in malloc/free) References: <19970920094155.13744@lemis.com> <199709200305.LAA23383@spinner.dialix.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709200305.LAA23383@spinner.dialix.com.au>; from Peter Wemm on Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 11:05:17AM +0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (following up in -chat) On Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 11:05:17AM +0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 11:49:06PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>>>> When a read or write fault occurs on page zero in a program running >>>>> on SVR4, rather than crashing, they map the page and note the effect. >>> >>> [ ... ] >>> >>>> It's not just incorrect, it's inconsistent. Some SVR4 do, some SVR4 >>>> don't. >>> >>> Sorry dude, but if it's derived from USL sources, it does this, >>> unless they've specifically taken it out. >> >> If you say so. Then they've specifically taken it out. > > Don't forget the mixed lineage of the SVR4 tree. My memory is a little > vague, but as I understand/remember:- > > - AT&T/USL release a native version on the 3b series of machines. > > - Intel get hold of it and port it to the 386 (SVR4/386), merging in all > the Xenix etc stuff from SVR3. I think this was with the involvement of > Interactive but I don't really know. I suspect this port was where the > first 'map page zero on demand' behavior happened. Anyway, this was > handed back to USL or something. Xenix was folded in in System V.3.2. I don't know when AT&T moved their base from 3b2 to i386, but it had happened by the time I did some courses with AT&T in late 1991. > - Meanwhile, motorola were porting the 3b code to the 68000 series (Amiga > UNIX was based on the motorola port which "felt" quite different to the > SVR4/386 derived code). Are you talking SVR3 or SVR4 here? My understanding was that Motorola never released their SVR4 for their boxes. > - Somewhere along the way, the SVR4/386 port was adapted to run on the > i860 series (eg: what was used at PCS for the Firebox(?) etc series). > > - Also, the SVR4/386 code was converted to run on the MIPS series > processors (as used in the SVR4 internals book). When I met one of the > authors of the book, he had some interesting stories to tell about this. Must have been Berny. He was on the same course I mentioned above. We only had a limited number of places, and the other author (James Cox) and I had to fight for a place. I won, but I had to promise to bring back a set of the course material for him. At this time, we (Tandem) already had a SVR3.2 port on our MIPS boxes. It was largely derived from RISC/OS. The SVR4 port basically folded the processor-independent layers of SVR4 onto our SVR3 processor-dependent code. That may have changed now that Tandem has released the Puma (and I no longer have the insight into the source that I would like :-), but I'm sure there's still a lot of stuff in there from the SVR3 days. > - Meanwhile.. SVR4/386 was being madly polished for retail by the likes of > Dell, ESIX, UHC, etc. They were feeding bugs/fixes back to USL too. One > of these groups may have been the origin of the 'map page zero on demand' > "feature". I know the Dell flavour had it, and I think that ESIX didn't. > It may have been Dell that was responsible for submitting it back to USL in > between the 2.0 and 3.0 USL SVR4.0/386 releases. Possible. I think that Tandem doesn't, but I haven't checked. We had trouble with this as far back as the SVR3.1 days on our 68020 box. > - And then... USL took the SVR4.0/386 code, merged in (or had others > merge in) various things like SMP, nearly-B1 level security etc and came > out with SVR4.2. > > - And then came unixware, then novell bought USL, then SCO bought novell's > unix business including USL and Unixware and now it's supposedly been > merged into SVR5 or whatever. Let the games really begin. > > Anyway, this is definately heading away from freebsd-bugs relevance... > >>> If so, then they are probably paying a huge royalty increment for >>> the priveledge, since you pay more (by a factor of 10) for not being >>> exactly their sources for everything but drivers. >> >> *All* the SVR4 systems I know deviate elsewhere than the drivers. > > You can say that again... :-) They are quite a mixed breed. They vary > more than the *BSD's. :-) > > However, one thing that still suprises me is how well the ABI had stuck. I > was amazed that I could take a program (perforce client and server) > dynamically linked for NCR's current x86 SMP system and run it on our old > 1993 vintage SVR4.0 system without the slightest hiccup. You were lucky. A few years back, I tested the first Solaris/86 stuff, and tried to run UnixWare binaries on it. No go. > I suspect this is because the SVR4 libc.so is really a .a file with some > of the components (the ABI core) living in libc.so.1, and the rest in > statically linked .o objects. I disagree with some of the choices (eg: > utmp is outside the ABI, so every program that uses getutent() has a > compiled-in knowledge of the utmp format on that system and cannot work on > another via a different implementation in libc.so.1.) Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 21:35:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02763 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.dialix.com.au (spinner.dialix.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02749 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.dialix.com.au (localhost.dialix.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.dialix.com.au with ESMTP id MAA24241; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:34:33 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199709200434.MAA24241@spinner.dialix.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Bastard System V (Was: Bug in malloc/free) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:51:24 +0930." <19970920125124.14990@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:34:32 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > (following up in -chat) > > On Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 11:05:17AM +0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 11:49:06PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >>>>> When a read or write fault occurs on page zero in a program running > >>>>> on SVR4, rather than crashing, they map the page and note the effect. > >>> > >>> [ ... ] > >>> > >>>> It's not just incorrect, it's inconsistent. Some SVR4 do, some SVR4 > >>>> don't. > >>> > >>> Sorry dude, but if it's derived from USL sources, it does this, > >>> unless they've specifically taken it out. > >> > >> If you say so. Then they've specifically taken it out. > > > > Don't forget the mixed lineage of the SVR4 tree. My memory is a little > > vague, but as I understand/remember:- > > > > - AT&T/USL release a native version on the 3b series of machines. > > > > - Intel get hold of it and port it to the 386 (SVR4/386), merging in all > > the Xenix etc stuff from SVR3. I think this was with the involvement of > > Interactive but I don't really know. I suspect this port was where the > > first 'map page zero on demand' behavior happened. Anyway, this was > > handed back to USL or something. > > Xenix was folded in in System V.3.2. I don't know when AT&T moved > their base from 3b2 to i386, but it had happened by the time I did > some courses with AT&T in late 1991. I was under the impression that it happened twice.. The 1989 vintage SVR4 release was 3b specific (I have some AT&T manuals that have 3b console output samples), and it didn't have the Xenix stuff in it as far as I can tell. From what I understand, AT&T did SVR3.0, Intel/Interactive did the the Xenix support and handed it back to AT&T and it was called SVR3.2. Meanwhile AT&T/USG did SVR4.0, and Intel/Interactive/etc merged the SVR3.2 (or was that SYSV R3.2 v2.0?) Xenix stuff forward to the SVR4 base and produced SVR4/386 and again sent it back to AT&T/USG and/or USL (I think USL existed by then). > > - Meanwhile, motorola were porting the 3b code to the 68000 series (Amiga > > UNIX was based on the motorola port which "felt" quite different to the > > SVR4/386 derived code). > > Are you talking SVR3 or SVR4 here? My understanding was that Motorola > never released their SVR4 for their boxes. Maybe they didn't release it commmercially for their boxes, but I'm quite sure they (Motorola) took the 3b base code from AT&T and adapted it to run on mc68K hardware and sent it back to AT&T/USG/USL. This would have probably been the same arrangement as what Intel was working under. (ie: AT&T produce a 3b version, and the processor manufacturers port that to their cpus for other vendors to base from). I was told (by whom I considered a reliable source within the Amiga Unix camp at the time) that the AMIX/Amiga UNIX port was derived from the 3b-> Motorola variant) > > - Somewhere along the way, the SVR4/386 port was adapted to run on the > > i860 series (eg: what was used at PCS for the Firebox(?) etc series). > > > > - Also, the SVR4/386 code was converted to run on the MIPS series > > processors (as used in the SVR4 internals book). When I met one of the > > authors of the book, he had some interesting stories to tell about this. > > Must have been Berny. He was on the same course I mentioned above. > We only had a limited number of places, and the other author (James > Cox) and I had to fight for a place. I won, but I had to promise to > bring back a set of the course material for him. Yep. He spoke about the perils of USL supplying the RCS tree of the SVR4/ mips code which still had functional SVR4/386 code as rev 1.1.... > At this time, we (Tandem) already had a SVR3.2 port on our MIPS boxes. > It was largely derived from RISC/OS. The SVR4 port basically folded > the processor-independent layers of SVR4 onto our SVR3 > processor-dependent code. That may have changed now that Tandem has > released the Puma (and I no longer have the insight into the source > that I would like :-), but I'm sure there's still a lot of stuff in > there from the SVR3 days. Yep, this was what I seem to recall Berny talking about.. I think he said something along the lines of getting the mips code from USL and then taking stuff from their previous releases to make it all work on Tandem hardware.. Or something like that. > >> *All* the SVR4 systems I know deviate elsewhere than the drivers. > > > > You can say that again... :-) They are quite a mixed breed. They vary > > more than the *BSD's. :-) > > > > However, one thing that still suprises me is how well the ABI had stuck. I > > was amazed that I could take a program (perforce client and server) > > dynamically linked for NCR's current x86 SMP system and run it on our old > > 1993 vintage SVR4.0 system without the slightest hiccup. > > You were lucky. A few years back, I tested the first Solaris/86 > stuff, and tried to run UnixWare binaries on it. No go. Hmm.. I recall something to that effect too.. I've got a unixware 1.1.mumble cdrom sitting in a box on a shelf somewhere. I seem to recall that a lot of things in Unixware (SVR4.2) make a lot of calls to the security subsystem. Since this is well outside the original ABI it's not too suprising that it doesn't work too well. :-] The NCR system I was talking about was SVR4.0 derived I think. I suspect the binary interface was expanded in between SVR4.0 -> SVR4.2. Since Unixware is SVR4.2 based and Solaris/x86 is SVR4.0 based with diverging development, probably different syscall numbers etc, It's not real suprising there are problems. NCR seem to have spend a lot of their effort on the SMP aspects of the kernel rather than making the userland stuff diverge. > Greg > Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 19 23:04:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10651 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10644 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id XAA23879; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199709200604.XAA23879@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in malloc/free In-Reply-To: <199709200458.VAA16810.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@usr02.primenet.com> References: <199709200305.LAA23383@spinner.dialix.com.au> from "Peter Wemm" at Sep 20, 97 11:05:17 am Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199709200458.VAA16810.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@usr02.primenet.com> Terry writes: [deleted] > 1966 MIT > CTSS > | [delted] > | | | 1979 1979 > | | | UNIX 7th ----------+-------. PWB 3.0 > | | | ,-------+ | | | > | | | v | | | | > | | 1979 1979 | | | | > | | 3BSD <- UNIX 32.V | | | | [deleted] Yeshua, Terry, I think you've got ENTIRELY too much time on your hands! :) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 00:55:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA28342 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28317 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA24735; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:25:20 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970920172520.02678@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:25:20 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sean Eric Fagan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug in malloc/free References: <199709200305.LAA23383@spinner.dialix.com.au> <199709200458.VAA16810.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@usr02.primenet.com> <199709200604.XAA23879@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709200604.XAA23879@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 11:04:10PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Sep 19, 1997 at 11:04:10PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <199709200458.VAA16810.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@usr02.primenet.com> Terry writes: > [deleted] > > 1966 MIT > > CTSS > > | > [delted] > > | | | 1979 1979 > > | | | UNIX 7th ----------+-------. PWB 3.0 > > | | | ,-------+ | | | > > | | | v | | | | > > | | 1979 1979 | | | | > > | | 3BSD <- UNIX 32.V | | | | > [deleted] > > Yeshua, Terry, I think you've got ENTIRELY too much time on your hands! :) Well, he's had seven years to do it. Terry, can you do it for me in pic format? Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 03:51:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29252 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA29241 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA12319; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:51:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA00569; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:49:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970920124919.DK30899@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:49:19 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: craig@ProGroup.com (Craig Shaver) Subject: Re: PcWeek Review + webweek article References: <3.0.32.19970919165229.00b3f2a8@etinc.com> <3422F8B6.40F2@ProGroup.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Craig Shaver wrote: > Check out the recent webweek article on "Yahoo's Bandwidth". Seems they > are using FreeBSD and getting very good results. Yahoo is known to be a heavy FreeBSD user. See the FreeBSD newsletter, too. They are also the people you gotta thank for finally getting a native FreeBSD Netscape communicator. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 09:59:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA15265 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15255 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (fh-ppp2.monmouth.com [205.164.221.34]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03688; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id MAA07043 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:58:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199709201658.MAA07043@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: Bastard System V (Was: Bug in malloc/free) In-Reply-To: <199709200434.MAA24241@spinner.dialix.com.au> from Peter Wemm at "Sep 20, 97 12:34:32 pm" To: peter@spinner.dialix.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As far as the mixed lineage of SVR4... I snipped a number of pieces on info here... I'm sorry but I lost the attribution. > > > Don't forget the mixed lineage of the SVR4 tree. My memory is a little > > > vague, but as I understand/remember:- > > > > > > - AT&T/USL release a native version on the 3b series of machines. > > > > > > - Intel get hold of it and port it to the 386 (SVR4/386), merging in all > > > the Xenix etc stuff from SVR3. I think this was with the involvement of > > > Interactive but I don't really know. I suspect this port was where the > > > first 'map page zero on demand' behavior happened. Anyway, this was > > > handed back to USL or something. > > > > Xenix was folded in in System V.3.2. I don't know when AT&T moved > > their base from 3b2 to i386, but it had happened by the time I did > > some courses with AT&T in late 1991. > > I was under the impression that it happened twice.. The 1989 vintage SVR4 > release was 3b specific (I have some AT&T manuals that have 3b console > output samples), and it didn't have the Xenix stuff in it as far as I can > tell. From what I understand, AT&T did SVR3.0, Intel/Interactive did the > the Xenix support and handed it back to AT&T and it was called SVR3.2. > > Meanwhile AT&T/USG did SVR4.0, and Intel/Interactive/etc merged the SVR3.2 > (or was that SYSV R3.2 v2.0?) Xenix stuff forward to the SVR4 base and > produced SVR4/386 and again sent it back to AT&T/USG and/or USL (I think > USL existed by then). > > > > - Meanwhile, motorola were porting the 3b code to the 68000 series (Amiga > > > UNIX was based on the motorola port which "felt" quite different to the > > > SVR4/386 derived code). > > > > > - Also, the SVR4/386 code was converted to run on the MIPS series > > > processors (as used in the SVR4 internals book). When I met one of the > > > authors of the book, he had some interesting stories to tell about this. > > Back to the os anthropology. Actually, there were both 3b and SVR4 trees under development at the SVR4 timeframe. A friend of mine at USL Summit worked on the SVR3.2 print spooler and the SVR4 stuff (the print spooler was being worked on for SVR4 and moved to the 3.2x port as well -- if my memory is correct). The same friend worked on the Amiga stuff later and also vouched for it's 3b beginnings...) Pyramid used the i386 port as the basis for it's MIPS port of DC/OSx. I'm unsure if it was the straight 386 port -- or the previously mentioned RISC/OS MIPS mix used at the beginning of the port. The backup program requested a floppy in drive A: 8-) (no such thing on the SMP Pyramid... I know they had it working with some MIPS stuff before their hardware was finished. (This was back when the code was beta.) Interestingly enough, a number of 68k vendors used the 3b port as their base making some wierd differences. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 908-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 10:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18658 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18651 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA17751; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:55:59 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:55:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199709201755.TAA17751@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Wes Peters CC: peter@grendel.IAEhv.nl, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Wes Peters's message of Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: ISDN Modems References: <199709181232.OAA09840@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <19970918215602.50570@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <199709190333.VAA03754@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Wes Peters] > > This also makes a FreeBSD box with an ISDN card an ideal 'Internet- > > box' for a small company. Put an ISDN card plus an Ethernet in it > > (and pray that they don't start mixing up the UTP and ISDN connec- > > tors :) ) and you can use it as a dial-up proxy server, mail/uucp > > host, news server for selected newsgroups, firewall, you name it. > > True. There aren't any solutions on the market that do all of these > right now, except the Whistle InterJet, but then again, it *IS* a > FreeBSD box. ;^) A damned nice one, too. Most companies that want a > dedicated/dial-up ISDN router with web, mail, news, etc. services would > do well to get themselves an InterJet. Just FYI - we're launching a similar product during the next week or so. Presently targeted to the Scandinavian market (partially as a test market), but that will change later. IMHO, better - approx the same price. Anybody that is interested in more info can contact me for more info (testing of a box emulator through the web is available). Eivind Eklund Yes Interactive From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 11:08:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19405 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19400 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA17792; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:08:27 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:08:27 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199709201808.UAA17792@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:42:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Memory leak in getservbyXXX? References: <20107.874708938@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Yes, we could have the government allow certain large > > corporations to market and sell these lethal products, even > > though the gov't knows that they are lethal. The gov't could > > even make tax money from these things, which we could call > > cigarettes. > > 3 Problems: > > 1. Not fast enough. > > 2. Not dangerous enough (dangerous, yes, but not as dangerous as > a brick of C4 plastic explosive or a Johnny Home Nerve Gas > Experimenter's kit). I wouldn't bet on that. 50% of smokers die from it. > 3. Not nearly interesting enough to the onlookers. If folks are going > to off themselves, they might as well put some effort into making > it both spectacular and entertaining for any potential television > audience. 4. Too habit forming, so it can catch people everywhere on the scale. I know a lot of smart people that smoke; personally, I regularly throw the habit off and then tend to re-acquire it. Yeah, I know it is dangerous. But one cigarette isn't dangerous; even one a day is mostly harmless. And you always feel like you can control it, thus making is SO easy to take "just one cigarette" when you've been drinking. Whomever hasn't tried it is hereby advised never to do so. Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 14:26:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27907 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27891 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-41.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.41]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA24146 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:26:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA02502 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:41:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199709202041.PAA02502@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: PcWeek Review + webweek article In-reply-to: Message from j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) of "Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:49:19 +0200." <19970920124919.DK30899@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:41:29 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Craig Shaver wrote: > > > Check out the recent webweek article on "Yahoo's Bandwidth". Seems they > > are using FreeBSD and getting very good results. > > Yahoo is known to be a heavy FreeBSD user. See the FreeBSD > newsletter, too. They are also the people you gotta thank for > finally getting a native FreeBSD Netscape communicator. :) I know of no other way to thank Yahoo! other than to post my thanks here and to use Yahoo! for my net searches. And to click on their advertisers once in a while whether I'm interested in their products or not. As for Netscape, I'll be sure to use my subscription ID to download the native FreeBSD version as soon as the non-beta release comes out. Then for a while at least I'll let it check into Netscape's homepage every time I launch it. That might not be a bad idea for the BSDi version... -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 14:56:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28984 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@1Cust8.tnt1.manassas.va.da.uu.net [153.37.113.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28976 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) id RAA00436; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970920175539.09294@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:55:39 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: dkelly@hiwaay.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PcWeek Review + webweek article Reply-To: hcremean@vt.edu References: <19970920124919.DK30899@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199709202041.PAA02502@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709202041.PAA02502@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from dkelly@hiwaay.net on Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 03:41:29PM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 03:41:29PM -0500, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > As Craig Shaver wrote: > > > > > Check out the recent webweek article on "Yahoo's Bandwidth". Seems they > > > are using FreeBSD and getting very good results. > > > > Yahoo is known to be a heavy FreeBSD user. See the FreeBSD > > newsletter, too. They are also the people you gotta thank for > > finally getting a native FreeBSD Netscape communicator. :) > > I know of no other way to thank Yahoo! other than to post my thanks here > and to use Yahoo! for my net searches. And to click on their advertisers > once in a while whether I'm interested in their products or not. Speaking of Yahoo's advertisers...I could have sworn I saw a FreeBSD banner ad on there somewhere not too long ago. Coincidence? Nahhhhhh... :) -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD++^i WK+++r P&B++ SL++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac Ee34/1/36 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 15:20:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29812 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29807 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id QAA22558; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02345; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:23:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Marc Slemko To: hcremean@vt.edu cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PcWeek Review + webweek article In-Reply-To: <19970920175539.09294@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 1997 at 03:41:29PM -0500, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > > As Craig Shaver wrote: > > > > > > > Check out the recent webweek article on "Yahoo's Bandwidth". Seems they > > > > are using FreeBSD and getting very good results. > > > > > > Yahoo is known to be a heavy FreeBSD user. See the FreeBSD > > > newsletter, too. They are also the people you gotta thank for > > > finally getting a native FreeBSD Netscape communicator. :) > > > > I know of no other way to thank Yahoo! other than to post my thanks here > > and to use Yahoo! for my net searches. And to click on their advertisers > > once in a while whether I'm interested in their products or not. > > Speaking of Yahoo's advertisers...I could have sworn I saw a FreeBSD banner > ad on there somewhere not too long ago. Coincidence? Nahhhhhh... :) Of course. Do a search for Linux and you will probably still see it... I have a gif somewhere (posted it before... hmm... http://www.worldgate.com/~marcs/yahoo.gif) that shows the results of such a search. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 20 20:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09238 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09233 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01550; Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:59:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Marc Slemko cc: hcremean@vt.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PcWeek Review + webweek article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:23:16 MDT." Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:59:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1546.874810792@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a gif somewhere (posted it before... hmm... > http://www.worldgate.com/~marcs/yahoo.gif) that shows the results of such > a search. That's kind of clever. :-) Yeesh, too bad it's in 8 bit though. That banner looks pretty harsh in 8 bit. I think it's time to solicit a new, fresh FreeBSD banner for display on Yahoo and UGU. Any takers? :-) Jordan