From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Jan 26 19:58:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15053 for doc-outgoing; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cedar.netten.net (root@cedar.netten.net [205.244.191.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15048 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (d59.netten.net [205.244.191.229]) by cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA07625 for ; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:14:20 -0600 Message-ID: <32EC28A7.4FE8@cedar.netten.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:01:43 -0600 From: Tracy Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Margins in Handbook Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi, has there been more space added to the bottom of the freebsd handbook for printing so the lines will not be cut off? Tracy From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 27 17:23:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA02899 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02881 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA27634 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA26901 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:03:55 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id AAA32623 for doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:03:31 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id AAA19021; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:00:10 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970128000009.KQ48969@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:00:09 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: doc@freebsd.org (FreeBSD documentation list) Subject: Broken link in the FAQ X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59/1-2,4,7-8,10-14 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: "FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2975" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here is a patch for a broken link in FAQ.sgml. I found it when testing the linuxdoc to docbook conversion from John... Index: FAQ.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /spare/FreeBSD-current/src/share/doc/FAQ/FAQ.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.27 diff -u -2 -r1.27 FAQ.sgml --- FAQ.sgml 1997/01/16 06:27:18 1.27 +++ FAQ.sgml 1997/01/27 21:06:34 @@ -108,5 +108,5 @@ What is FreeBSD-current?

- is the development version of the operating system, which will in due course become version 3.0. As such, it is really only of interest -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Jan 27 19:15:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12436 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunpost.sable.krasnoyarsk.su (sunpost.sable.krasnoyarsk.su [193.125.44.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12413 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from tpo.UUCP by sunpost.sable.krasnoyarsk.su with UUCP id AA11534 (5.65.kiae-1 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org); Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:15:42 +0700 Received: by tpo.krasnoyarsk.su (dMail for DOS v1.23, 15Jun94); Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:00:56 +0300 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: Organization: The Territorial Centre for Interurban Communication N 17 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:00:56 +0300 (MSK) From: "Oleg M. Golovanov" X-Mailer: dMail [Demos Mail for DOS v1.23] Subject: About translations Lines: 13 Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Sirs: Would you be so kind as to give me information related with translations of FreeBSD handbook and other documentation about FreeBSD in Russian language ? I should like to start the same work under the publicating the Russian Edition of this documentation. Oleg M. Golovanov System Administrator Interurban Communications and TV Regional Center N 17 ROSTELECOM From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 28 08:30:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22496 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from huron.neuro.virginia.edu (huron.neuro.Virginia.EDU [128.143.244.43]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22491 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from huron (LOCALHOST) by huron.neuro.virginia.edu with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA032039287; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:34:47 -0500 Message-Id: <32EE2AA7.68E6@virginia.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:34:47 -0500 From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Organization: University of Virginia, NVL, NIIMS & Telemedecine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.10 9000/755) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: out of date URL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, On http://www2.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook102.html#160, the http://www.u-net.com/~sysdoc/hardware.htm URL needs to be replaced with http://sysdoc.pair.com/ cheers, Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, System Administrator --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! NVL, NIIMS and Telemedicine Labs -->>| For an application and information Member: League for Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 28 10:10:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28543 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.pinpt.com (dns.pinpt.com [205.179.195.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28537; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from journeyman (gatemaster.pinpt.com [205.179.195.65]) by dns.pinpt.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA20587; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:09:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:06:14 Pacific Standard Time From: "Sean J. Schluntz" Subject: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. To: chat@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Chameleon ATX 6.0, Standards Based IntraNet Solutions, NetManage Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What if the FreeBSD Book was published like some cookbooks. A shrink wrapped set of three ring hole punched papers with index pages and a small binder (Fiction Hardback sized.) Then people could subscribe to the updates, and FreeBSD could just mail out the sections that have changed. This would mean that the entire book does not have to be reprinted every time there is a change, and the wastage of old paperwork would be much less because you would only remove the sections that have gone out of date. -Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean J. Schluntz Manager, Support Services ph. 408.997.6900 x222 PinPoint Software Corporation fx. 408.323.2300 6155 Almaden Expressway, Suite 100 San Jose, CA. 95120 http://www.pinpt.com/ Local Time Sent: 01/28/97 10:06:15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Jan 28 13:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12746 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from perki0.connect.com.au (perki0.connect.com.au [192.189.54.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12740; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:46:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from Unemeton@localhost) by perki0.connect.com.au id IAA19130 (8.7.6h/IDA-1.6); Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:45:55 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: perki0.connect.com.au: Unemeton set sender to giles@nemeton.com.au using -f >Received: from localhost.nemeton.com.au (localhost.nemeton.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by nemeton.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA26117; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:38:01 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701282138.IAA26117@nemeton.com.au> To: "Sean J. Schluntz" cc: chat@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:38:00 +1100 From: Giles Lean Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:06:14 Pacific Standard Time "Sean J. Schluntz" wrote: > What if the FreeBSD Book was published like some cookbooks. A shrink wrapped > set of three ring hole punched papers with index pages and a small binder > (Fiction Hardback sized.) Then people could subscribe to the updates, and > FreeBSD could just mail out the sections that have changed. Every vendor I've seen shipping documentation this way has stopped. Too ugly, too time consuming, too expensive for the users who have to do the updates. Giles From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 00:56:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA20277 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA20195; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA25339; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:54:44 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:54:44 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Giles Lean cc: "Sean J. Schluntz" , chat@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. In-Reply-To: <199701282138.IAA26117@nemeton.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Giles Lean wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:06:14 Pacific Standard Time "Sean J. Schluntz" wrote: > > > What if the FreeBSD Book was published like some cookbooks. A shrink wrapped > > set of three ring hole punched papers with index pages and a small binder > > (Fiction Hardback sized.) Then people could subscribe to the updates, and > > FreeBSD could just mail out the sections that have changed. > > Every vendor I've seen shipping documentation this way has stopped. > > Too ugly, too time consuming, too expensive for the users who have to > do the updates. DEC for one, used to have the VMS docs in binders up until V6.0 (that's a huge set of docs - some 30 or more books) and then they moved to paper back. The official excuse was that the binders are not recycleable (so now DEC is out to save the rain forest or something?) while the paperbacks are printed on recycled paper. IMHO, the binders were simply too expensive to manufacture and ship (they weight about twice as much as the paper back version). To the user I guess the binders are a blessing. The paperbacks can't be left open on a specific page without them falling apart after a week of heavy use. Since they have some 30 books, and each version updates just a small subset of them (usually up to 8) they still don't have to reproduce the whole set for each update. Bottom line is, IMHO, that binedr updates are not practical for the *vendor* not the user, especially if you have a small number of volumes. In most cases you'll replace a complete volume anyhow. As a user, I like it *alot*, especially for something the size of the VMS docs. For a single volume - I guess it doesn't really matter. > > Giles > > Nadav From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 01:38:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA21832 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from superior.truenorth.org (ppp023-sm2.sirius.com [205.134.231.23]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA21825; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.truenorth.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA22567; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199701290936.BAA22567@superior.truenorth.org> Subject: Re: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. In-Reply-To: from Nadav Eiron at "Jan 29, 97 10:54:44 am" To: nadav@cs.technion.ac.il (Nadav Eiron) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:36:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: giles@nemeton.com.au, schluntz@pinpt.com, chat@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Reply-To: jgrosch@sirius.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Giles Lean wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:06:14 Pacific Standard Time "Sean J. Schluntz" wrote: >> >> > What if the FreeBSD Book was published like some cookbooks. A shrink wrapped >> > set of three ring hole punched papers with index pages and a small binder >> > (Fiction Hardback sized.) Then people could subscribe to the updates, and >> > FreeBSD could just mail out the sections that have changed. >> >> Every vendor I've seen shipping documentation this way has stopped. >> >> Too ugly, too time consuming, too expensive for the users who have to >> do the updates. > >DEC for one, used to have the VMS docs in binders up until V6.0 (that's a >huge set of docs - some 30 or more books) and then they moved to paper >back. The official excuse was that the binders are not recycleable (so now >DEC is out to save the rain forest or something?) while the paperbacks are >printed on recycled paper. IMHO, the binders were simply too expensive to >manufacture and ship (they weight about twice as much as the paper back >version). To the user I guess the binders are a blessing. The paperbacks >can't be left open on a specific page without them falling apart after a >week of heavy use. Since they have some 30 books, and each version updates >just a small subset of them (usually up to 8) they still don't have to >reproduce the whole set for each update. > >Bottom line is, IMHO, that binedr updates are not practical for the >*vendor* not the user, especially if you have a small number of volumes. >In most cases you'll replace a complete volume anyhow. As a user, I like >it *alot*, especially for something the size of the VMS docs. For a single >volume - I guess it doesn't really matter. > Another down side to the 3-ring binder for the vendor is the ease of copying the docs. In a past life I did a lot of work on VAX/VMS, `round the time 4.7. At a number of sites I saw the client buy one copy of the documentation set and allow the programmers to xerox as many copies as they wanted. Often there were 30 or 40 copys floating around the site. Sun also used to issue their docs in 3-ring format. AFAIK only IBM is still doing their mainframe docs in this format. Of course, if you have ever seen IBM mainframe "wall of docs" then you would understand why they still perfer to work in this foramt. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 02:25:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA23263 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA23255; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA01061; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:21:51 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:21:51 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: jgrosch@sirius.com cc: giles@nemeton.com.au, schluntz@pinpt.com, chat@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. In-Reply-To: <199701290936.BAA22567@superior.truenorth.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > > > >On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Giles Lean wrote: > > > >> > >> On Tue, 28 Jan 97 10:06:14 Pacific Standard Time "Sean J. Schluntz" wrote: > >> > >> > What if the FreeBSD Book was published like some cookbooks. A shrink wrapped > >> > set of three ring hole punched papers with index pages and a small binder > >> > (Fiction Hardback sized.) Then people could subscribe to the updates, and > >> > FreeBSD could just mail out the sections that have changed. > >> > >> Every vendor I've seen shipping documentation this way has stopped. > >> > >> Too ugly, too time consuming, too expensive for the users who have to > >> do the updates. > > > >DEC for one, used to have the VMS docs in binders up until V6.0 (that's a > >huge set of docs - some 30 or more books) and then they moved to paper > >back. The official excuse was that the binders are not recycleable (so now > >DEC is out to save the rain forest or something?) while the paperbacks are > >printed on recycled paper. IMHO, the binders were simply too expensive to > >manufacture and ship (they weight about twice as much as the paper back > >version). To the user I guess the binders are a blessing. The paperbacks > >can't be left open on a specific page without them falling apart after a > >week of heavy use. Since they have some 30 books, and each version updates > >just a small subset of them (usually up to 8) they still don't have to > >reproduce the whole set for each update. > > > >Bottom line is, IMHO, that binedr updates are not practical for the > >*vendor* not the user, especially if you have a small number of volumes. > >In most cases you'll replace a complete volume anyhow. As a user, I like > >it *alot*, especially for something the size of the VMS docs. For a single > >volume - I guess it doesn't really matter. > > > > Another down side to the 3-ring binder for the vendor is the ease of > copying the docs. In a past life I did a lot of work on VAX/VMS, `round the > time 4.7. At a number of sites I saw the client buy one copy of the > documentation set and allow the programmersto xerox as many copies as they > wanted. Often there were 30 or 40 copys floating around the site. Well, nowdays this is completly irrelevant. Everyone gives out the docs on CDs anyhow, and you can print as many copies as you want from them. For something like the complete VMS docs, I think it's cheaper to buy them. The set is about $1000, and if it's 20,000 pages (I think there are at least that many in it) that's 5c/page, which is not that expensive considering it comes already bound and you don't have to waste *hours* on Xeroxing that amount. > > Sun also used to issue their docs in 3-ring format. AFAIK only IBM is still > doing their mainframe docs in this format. Of course, if you have ever seen > IBM mainframe "wall of docs" then you would understand why they still > perfer to work in this foramt. > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 > jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - |UNIX for the masses > Nadav From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 03:07:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA24556 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:07:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ami.tom.computerworks.net (root@AMI.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.95.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA24551 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com by ami.tom.computerworks.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0vpXqi-0021khC; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:06 EST Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA24707; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 05:02:55 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 05:02:55 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199701291102.FAA24707@bonkers.taronga.com> To: jgrosch@superior.truenorth.org Subject: Re: Suggestion for the FreeBSD Book. Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.doc In-Reply-To: <199701290936.BAA22567@superior.truenorth.org> References: Organization: none Cc: doc@freebsd.org Reply-to: peter@taronga.com Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199701290936.BAA22567@superior.truenorth.org>, Josef Grosch wrote: >Another down side to the 3-ring binder for the vendor is the ease of >copying the docs. In a past life I did a lot of work on VAX/VMS, `round the >time 4.7. At a number of sites I saw the client buy one copy of the >documentation set and allow the programmers to xerox as many copies as they >wanted. Often there were 30 or 40 copys floating around the site. Of course the way DEC treated, and still treats, the issue of decent on-line documentation made that more or less inevitable. If you were a reasonable sized site you'd have ended up spending more on the docs than you did on the operating system. In fact I just spent more on the docs for a DEC terminal server than I did for the software they documented, and that was one copy, so they're still doing it. From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 12:30:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19462 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcia.com (root@[205.182.55.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19454; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1p36.mcia.com (ts1p10.mcia.com [205.182.55.139]) by mcia.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14452; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:25:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32EFCEFD.2849@mcia.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:28:13 -0800 From: CBTravenss Reply-To: cbt@mcia.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: webmaster@owlsnest.com CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Worst Marketing Strategies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Receiving unsolicited email from owlsnest.com was annoying enough but stating that by replying and returning a copy of your email, I am therein giving owlsnet.com personnel authorization to do something and then bill me is totally outrageous. I'm contributing to an article on Internet marketing techniques and will use your technique as an example of the worst of them. Your affiliation with the FreeBSD organization (your one-page Web presence: www.owlsnest.com offers only one link and the link is to the FreeBSD site), prompts me to send copies of this message to them so that they can rethink their affiliation with you, or if your organization and theirs is one and the same, the marketing strategy you have devised can be more thoughtfully planned. CBT From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 14:30:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26082 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcia.com (root@[205.182.55.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26077; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1p36.mcia.com (ts1p15.mcia.com [205.182.55.144]) by mcia.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15253; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:25:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32EFEB1A.39BD@mcia.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:28:10 -0800 From: CBTravenss Reply-To: cbt@mcia.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: info@owlsnest.com CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Receiving unsolicited email from owlsnest.com was annoying enough but stating that by replying and returning a copy of your email, I am therein giving owlsnet.com personnel authorization to do something and then bill me is totally outrageous. I'm contributing to an article on Internet marketing techniques and will use your technique as an example of the worst of them. The message I sent to you via your mailto link on your one and only page with just the one mailto link - was returned as "undeliverable: user unknown". Your entire organization appears to be sham? I think there are likely some Deceptive Trade Practices at issue. I'm resending the text of my original message again below. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Your affiliation with the FreeBSD organization (your one-page Web presence: www.owlsnest.com offers only one link and the link is to the FreeBSD site), prompts me to send copies of this message to them so that they can rethink their affiliation with you, or if your organization and theirs is one and the same, the marketing strategy you have devised can be more thoughtfully planned. CBT From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 18:38:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11961 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:38:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11931; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:38:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701300238.SAA11931@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: DTP To: cbt@mcia.com Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:38:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: info@owlsnest.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <32EFEB1A.39BD@mcia.com> from "CBTravenss" at Jan 29, 97 04:28:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The FreeBSD Project Inc. is in no way affliated with owlsnet.com. it seems that owlsnet.com uses FreeBSD to run their website www.owlsnet.com. The FreeBSD Project Inc, is not responsible for the actions of others that use FreeBSD, just as the computer hardware manufacturer is not responsible for the actions of owlsnet.com. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team Member jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB CBTravenss wrote: > > Receiving unsolicited email from owlsnest.com was annoying enough but > stating that by replying and returning a copy of your email, I am > therein giving owlsnet.com personnel authorization > to do something and then bill me is totally outrageous. I'm contributing > to an article on Internet marketing techniques and will use your > technique as an example of the worst of them. > The message I sent to you via your mailto link on your one and only > page with just the one mailto link - was returned as "undeliverable: > user unknown". Your entire organization appears to be sham? > I think there are likely some Deceptive Trade Practices at issue. > > I'm resending the text of my original message again below. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Your affiliation with the FreeBSD organization (your one-page Web > presence: > www.owlsnest.com > offers only one link and the link is to the FreeBSD site), prompts me to > send copies of this message to them so that they can rethink their > affiliation with you, or if your organization and theirs is one and the > same, the marketing strategy you have devised can be more thoughtfully > planned. > > CBT > From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Jan 29 19:21:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14995 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcia.com (root@mcia.com [205.182.55.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14989; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ts1p36.mcia.com (ts1p4.mcia.com [205.182.55.133]) by mcia.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17560; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:17:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32F02F96.18D1@mcia.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:20:22 -0800 From: CBTravenss Reply-To: cbt@mcia.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ben@narcissus.ml.org CC: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Snob Art Genre wrote: > > We, the volunteer readers of freebsd-questions, got your message... > > I have no idea who owlsnest.com is, but if they are spammers then I wish > them nothing good. > > I gather from your mail header that you're still using 16-bit Windows. > No wonder you're cranky, I would be too if my computer were always > crashing. Your comments, while interesting, are, I believe, misguided and not constructive. If I'm the only individual who thinks the Owl's Eye Productions maintainers are misleading the public and using FreeBSD to help them do that, then it would be somewhat surprising and unfortunate, but I'll likely be able to live with that. The facts are as follows: An organization called Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. maintains a one-page Web site at http://www.owlsnest.com on which three items are presented. The name of the organization, a sham (i.e. non-existent) email address mailto link, webmaster@owlsnest.com" and a bright graphic in the center of the page promoting and linking to FreeBSD. No other links or contact information is offered. Owls' Eye Productions has sent untold numbers of unsolicited emails offering a URL placement service and has crossed far over the line, in my view, by stating that by replying to the email (return address: owlseye@owlsnest.com) the respondant is authorizing Owl's Eye Productions to begin the placement service and charge a fee. It's not standard "spam". I thought it might be of value for individuals who have an interest in FreeBSD to know that their interests are being associated with the less than ethical practices of Owl's Eye Productions and hoped that they might welcome having the opportunity to decide what they would like to do about it, if anything. I cannot understand why you would wish to berate me for merely providing the information about it. My computer does not crash, nor does my awareness that retaliation might be a consequence when communicating with the sort of people who send unsolicited email messages with unethical schemes and traps in them. My preference to remain as anonymous as possible to notify them and interested parties at FreeBSD, will, I hope, be viewed by objective and thoughtful individuals as reasonable and not unethical in any way. The statements I have made can be independently verified and I have no wish to convince anyone to send me money or to do anything at all except consider what is in their own best interests. There is no need to reply to me. If you like, have a look at www.owlsnest.com, try to send an email using the mailto link on the page, or if you want to risk being thought to have authorized them to perform fee-based services for you, send them an email at owlseye@owlsnest.com. If you think others who receive their umail might unfairly associate them with FreeBSD, then you can contact the developers or distributors of FreeBSD, if you like. My contribution time now has been expended. Thanks, CBT From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Jan 30 12:44:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00181 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00174 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by knight.cons.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05031; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:45:33 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:45:33 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701302045.VAA05031@knight.cons.org> From: Martin Cracauer To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Regarding the mailing list search engine Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some weeks ago a number of folks show interest in contributing to a reimplementation of the mailing list (and WWW page) search software for FreeBSD.org. I'd like you to contact me: - If you are interested to help coding something (personally, I'd go for C, regex and some db lib. Or Common Lisp...). - if you know software that does the job and that you like (suggested either for actual use or for review to get an idea what other people do). - If you have specific demands for features. Thanks Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer CGI shepherd, FreeBSD Documentation Project cracauer@freebsd.org