From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 05:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA27407 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA27397 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p0.hai.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with SMTP id OAA02780 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:30:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at by p0.hai.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0x82xp-00074OC; Mon, 8 Sep 97 14:30 MET DST Received: from zerberus (localhost) by zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19325; Mon, 8 Sep 97 14:32:29 +0200 Message-Id: <3413F05C.41C67EA6@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:32:28 +0200 From: Helmut Wirth Organization: Siemens AG. Österreich X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4c) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Doscmd, debugging with gdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I have problems debugging doscmd with gdb. I would appreciate any hints how to do this. Here is the situation: Doscdm needs the lowest 1MB of virtual addresses for the DOS (VM86) - applikations to run. The emulator therefore resides at addresses higher than 1MB. This is done with a trick: A doscmd loader is started (this is the command one types in) and the loader in turn expands its data area and loads the doscmd.kernel starting over 1MB (actually its start address is 0x110000). doscmd.kernel is the emulator itself, it then proceeds to initialize the VM86 system. (In future we may need to load doscmd.kernel even higher, when DPMI emulation runs). The problem: Starting doscmd under gdb loads the symboltable of the loader, not of doscmd.kernel. This is easy to solve (symbol-file ..). There are other troubles (with the signals, for example,..) but there are solutions for this too. I can trace into doscmd.kernel, load its symbols, list the functions, handle the signals correctly (nostop, pass for SIGBUS) and continue the program. But I cannot set breakpoints! I tried the following: 1) load doscmd under gdb, set breakpoint before call to doscmd.kernel entry, step into doscmd.kernel. If I then try to set a breakpoint gdb accepts it, but when I tell it to continue, it cannot set the breakpoint. ("Cannot set breakpoint, bad address 0x....). 2) Attach to the running doscmd. gdb attaches fine, I can read the symbol table using the symbol-file command or the -symbol option. Doscmd stops when gdb attaches itself, and I can examine the registers and memory. But again it cannot set any breakpoints, the same error as under 1) occurs. I think the reason for this is, that ptrace knows the text segment of the original loader, and it refuses to set breakpoints into what it sees as the data area of a program. Btw: doscmd.loader is linked as a normal ZMAGIC process, doscmd.kernel is linked as NMAGIC process. Has somebody an idea how to solve this? It would greatly enhance my productivity :-). Thank you -- Helmut F. Wirth --------------- E-mail: hfwirth@ping.at E-mail (at work): wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at Tel. : +43-1-1707-37610 (at work) FAX : +43-1-1707-57602 (at work) From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 05:44:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28224 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28219 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p0.hai.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with SMTP id OAA03661 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 14:43:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at by p0.hai.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0x83AK-00074OC; Mon, 8 Sep 97 14:43 MET DST Received: from zerberus (localhost) by zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19386; Mon, 8 Sep 97 14:45:17 +0200 Message-Id: <3413F35D.167EB0E7@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 14:45:17 +0200 From: Helmut Wirth Organization: Siemens AG. Österreich X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4c) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Doscmd news Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, the EMS emulation seems to work, the LIM EMS 3.0 function subset is tested, the rest of the functions is written, but largely untested. I am now working on two things: First test the rest of the functions and commit the code. I have to do this by hand, because there seems to be no real test software for EMS 4.0 (I have a small test program for the EMS 3.0 subset). Second, I am trying to get some test- and benchmark tools to run under doscmd. (I.e. Norton utilities´ 8.0 sysinfo.exe and ndiags.exe and QEMM 8.0 manifest (mft.exe)). This reveals a *lot* of problems with the doscmd code. I now have a nearly complete emulation of the timer chip; a DOS app can program and read the system timer (ports 0x40-0x43) This works fairly well, but it needs at least a minimal emulation of the Interrupt controller (PIC) too, because many programs use this for timing purposes. I only have a rather crude hack for testing, but I plan to do a minimal emulation of the PIC (at least a program should be able to send EOI, and to read the ISR and the IRR). This in turn enabled the benchmark programs mentioned above to start to run, but I now have a rather nasty problem with mingling signals (I think). Hence my question to gdb, (see another mail). Regards -- Helmut F. Wirth --------------- E-mail: hfwirth@ping.at E-mail (at work): wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at Tel. : +43-1-1707-37610 (at work) FAX : +43-1-1707-57602 (at work) From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 13:58:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03411 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micron.efn.org (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03406 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mini@localhost) by micron.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01175; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970908135747.62711@micron.efn.org> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:57:47 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Helmut Wirth Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: <3413F05C.41C67EA6@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e In-Reply-To: <3413F05C.41C67EA6@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at>; from Helmut Wirth on Mon, Sep 08, 1997 at 02:32:28PM +0200 X-files: The Truth is Out There. Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Helmut Wirth stands accused of saying : > Hello, > I have problems debugging doscmd with gdb. I would appreciate any hints > how to do this. Here is the situation: > > Doscdm needs the lowest 1MB of virtual addresses for the DOS (VM86) - > applikations to run. The emulator therefore resides at addresses higher > than 1MB. This is done with a trick: A doscmd loader is started (this > is the command one types in) and the loader in turn expands its data > area and loads the doscmd.kernel starting over 1MB (actually its start > address is 0x110000). doscmd.kernel is the emulator itself, it then > proceeds to initialize the VM86 system. (In future we may need to load > doscmd.kernel even higher, when DPMI emulation runs). no we don't. ;P Just assign people addresses mapped above the emulator's kernel. For a good example, QDPMI is a DPMI host that resides within the range of 530K (or so) to the HMA just over 0x110000) (the HMA is actaully over 1M, and is accessed by a (theoretical) bug in the 286 and up where Real Mode doesn't act like the 8088/8086) IMO, an excellent way to proved blocks of memory for DPMI wuold be to simply mmap() it. This allows you to leave the kernel where it is, and just pass the DPMI clients addresses that are within your newly mmap'd region. This is probably incredibly obvious to those informed, but it's jsut a simple example of how to implement in DPMI in a way where the doscmd kernel need not be relocated. > The problem: Starting doscmd under gdb loads the symboltable of the > loader, not of doscmd.kernel. This is easy to solve (symbol-file ..). > There are other troubles (with the signals, for example,..) but there > are solutions for this too. I can trace into doscmd.kernel, load its > symbols, list the functions, handle the signals correctly (nostop, pass > for SIGBUS) and continue the program. But I cannot set breakpoints! > > I tried the following: > 1) load doscmd under gdb, set breakpoint before call to doscmd.kernel > entry, step into doscmd.kernel. If I then try to set a breakpoint > gdb accepts it, but when I tell it to continue, it cannot set the > breakpoint. ("Cannot set breakpoint, bad address 0x....). > 2) Attach to the running doscmd. gdb attaches fine, I can read the > symbol table using the symbol-file command or the -symbol option. > Doscmd stops when gdb attaches itself, and I can examine the > registers and memory. But again it cannot set any breakpoints, the > same error as under 1) occurs. > > I think the reason for this is, that ptrace knows the text segment of > the original loader, and it refuses to set breakpoints into what it > sees as the data area of a program. > > Btw: doscmd.loader is linked as a normal ZMAGIC process, doscmd.kernel > is linked as NMAGIC process. > > Has somebody an idea how to solve this? It would greatly enhance my > productivity :-). > > Thank you > -- > Helmut F. Wirth > --------------- > E-mail: hfwirth@ping.at > E-mail (at work): wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at > Tel. : +43-1-1707-37610 (at work) > FAX : +43-1-1707-57602 (at work) -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693 Eugene, Or 97405 From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 18:11:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21810 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21803 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16915 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:11:26 -0700 (PDT) To: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 18:11:26 -0700 Message-ID: <16911.873767486@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? From: evan@telly.org (Evan Leibovitch) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: LXRUN - run Linux binaries on SCO Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:21:17 GMT Organization: Sound Software SCO has recently released 'lxrun', an emulator which runs Linux binaries (both a.out and ELF) on OpenServer and UnixWare systems. lxrun release 0.8.6 is freely available in binary and source versions: http://ftp.sco.com/skunkware/emulators - - -- Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario Supporting PC-based Unix since 1985 / Caldera & SCO authorized / www.telly.org Do cosmonauts get seven years' bad luck for breaking a MIR? From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 21:58:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02794 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02783 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id OAA28185; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:57:44 +1000 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:57:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709090457.OAA28185@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The problem: Starting doscmd under gdb loads the symboltable of the >loader, not of doscmd.kernel. This is easy to solve (symbol-file ..). >There are other troubles (with the signals, for example,..) but there >are solutions for this too. I can trace into doscmd.kernel, load its >symbols, list the functions, handle the signals correctly (nostop, pass >for SIGBUS) and continue the program. But I cannot set breakpoints! >I think the reason for this is, that ptrace knows the text segment of >the original loader, and it refuses to set breakpoints into what it >sees as the data area of a program. There must be more to it than that, since gdb can set breakpoints in shared libraries although it doesn't understand symbols in shared libraries. Perhaps it is relocating text addresses by 0x110000 when it should use 0. Bruce From owner-freebsd-emulation Mon Sep 8 23:31:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06883 for emulation-outgoing; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06876 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id IAA05856; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:30:58 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709090630.IAA05856@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <16911.873767486@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Sep 8, 97 06:11:26 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:30:58 +0200 (MEST) Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? I'll have a look, see if they have "stolen" something :) > > From: evan@telly.org (Evan Leibovitch) > Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce > Subject: LXRUN - run Linux binaries on SCO > Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 18:21:17 GMT > Organization: Sound Software > > SCO has recently released 'lxrun', an emulator which runs Linux binaries > (both a.out and ELF) on OpenServer and UnixWare systems. > > lxrun release 0.8.6 is freely available in binary and source versions: > > http://ftp.sco.com/skunkware/emulators > > - - -- > Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario > Supporting PC-based Unix since 1985 / Caldera & SCO authorized / www.telly.org > Do cosmonauts get seven years' bad luck for breaking a MIR? > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Sep 9 12:43:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00286 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis.ping.at (a013.static.Vienna.AT.EU.net [193.154.186.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00276 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis (localhost.ping.at [127.0.0.1]) by atlantis.ping.at (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00785; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:42:44 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <3415A6B4.41C67EA6@ping.at> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:42:44 +0200 From: "Helmut F. Wirth" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Evans CC: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb References: <199709090457.OAA28185@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > > There must be more to it than that, since gdb can set breakpoints > in shared libraries although it doesn't understand symbols in shared > libraries. Perhaps it is relocating text addresses by 0x110000 when > it should use 0. > > Bruce Bruce, I have investigated a little.. indeed there seems to be more. Here is the ktrace output from gdb in this situation: 524 gdb CALL write(0x1,0xe1000,0xc) 524 gdb GIO fd 1 wrote 12 bytes "Continuing. " 524 gdb RET write 12/0xc 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_READ_I,0x208,0x127b0c,0) 524 gdb RET ptrace 4031315/0x3d8353 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_READ_I,0x208,0x127b0c,0) 524 gdb RET ptrace 4031315/0x3d8353 * 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_WRITE_D,0x208,0x127b0c,0x3dcc53) * 524 gdb RET ptrace -1 errno 14 Bad address * 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_WRITE_I,0x208,0x127b0c,0x3dcc53) * 524 gdb RET ptrace -1 errno 14 Bad address 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_READ_I,0x208,0x127b0c,0) 524 gdb RET ptrace 4031315/0x3d8353 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_WRITE_D,0x208,0x127b0c,0x3dcc53) 524 gdb RET ptrace -1 errno 14 Bad address 524 gdb CALL ptrace(PT_WRITE_I,0x208,0x127b0c,0x3dcc53) 524 gdb RET ptrace -1 errno 14 Bad address 524 gdb CALL write(0x2,0xcb460,0x1c) 524 gdb GIO fd 2 wrote 28 bytes "Cannot insert breakpoint 1: " 524 gdb RET write 28/0x1c 524 gdb CALL write(0x1,0xe1000,0x36) 524 gdb GIO fd 1 wrote 54 bytes "Error accessing memory address 0x127b0d: Bad address. " The lines marked with (*) show the EFAULT (14) error. The address lies inside the emulator, but not in the VM86 area. Here is the map from /proc/PID/map (map is from doscmd, not gdb): 0x0 0x10000 7 0 rwx vnode 0x10000 0xe0000 11 0 rwx default 0xe0000 0xf0000 0 0 rwx none 0xf0000 0x100000 1 0 rwx default 0x100000 0x110000 14 0 rwx vnode 0x110000 0x1ef000 52 0 rwx default 0x8003000 0x8013000 13 0 r-x COW vnode 0x8013000 0x8015000 0 2 rwx COW vnode 0x8015000 0x801f000 0 10 rwx default 0x8020000 0x8023000 3 0 r-x COW vnode 0x8023000 0x8024000 0 1 rwx COW vnode 0x8024000 0x8089000 48 0 r-x COW vnode 0x8089000 0x808d000 0 4 rwx COW vnode 0x808d000 0x80a4000 0 9 rwx default 0xefbde000 0xefbfe000 1 4 rwx default As you can see, the area in question is mapped as default. The vnode entries from 0x0-0x10000 and 0x100000-0x110000 are the emulation of the memory wrap around (High memory area), the vnode from 0xe0000-0xf0000 is the (currently unmapped) EMS segment. The address requested by gdb is 0x127b0d and in range of 0x110000-0x1ef000. I checked the address in the symbol table, it is correct. It should work .. ? Any ideas ? Thank you Helmut -- Helmut F. Wirth Email: hfwirth@ping.at From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Sep 9 17:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19338 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19332 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08105; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:33:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id TAA23408; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:32:30 -0500 Message-ID: <19970909193229.57912@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:32:29 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Helmut F. Wirth" Cc: Bruce Evans , emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb References: <199709090457.OAA28185@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <3415A6B4.41C67EA6@ping.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <3415A6B4.41C67EA6@ping.at>; from Helmut F. Wirth on Sep 09, 1997 at 09:42:44PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 09, 1997 at 09:42:44PM +0200, Helmut F. Wirth wrote: > Here is the map from /proc/PID/map (map is from doscmd, not gdb): > > 0x0 0x10000 7 0 rwx vnode > 0x10000 0xe0000 11 0 rwx default > 0xe0000 0xf0000 0 0 rwx none > 0xf0000 0x100000 1 0 rwx default > 0x100000 0x110000 14 0 rwx vnode > 0x110000 0x1ef000 52 0 rwx default > 0x8003000 0x8013000 13 0 r-x COW vnode > 0x8013000 0x8015000 0 2 rwx COW vnode > 0x8015000 0x801f000 0 10 rwx default [.. snip ..] The problem appears to be that gdb is unable to write to any region that is of type OBJT_DEFAULT (default) in the above map, even though it is marked writable. gdb doesn't have any problems reading from the address, though. A simple test case: > echo 'main() {}' > test.c > cc -g test.c > gdb a.out (gdb) b main (gdb) r > cat /proc//map [.. snip ..] 0x8012000 0x8014000 0 2 rwx COW vnode 0x8014000 0x801c000 0 8 rwx default [.. snip ..] (gdb) set *0x8012000 = 0 (gdb) set *0x8014000 = 0 Error accessing memory address 0x8014000: Bad address. I'm not sure where to look; this seems more like a vm problem. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Sep 9 20:27:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00824 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00819 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id NAA07491; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:21:30 +1000 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:21:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709100321.NAA07491@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hfwirth@ping.at, jlemon@americantv.com Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The problem appears to be that gdb is unable to write to any >region that is of type OBJT_DEFAULT (default) in the above >map, even though it is marked writable. gdb doesn't have any >problems reading from the address, though. > >A simple test case: > > > echo 'main() {}' > test.c > > cc -g test.c > > gdb a.out > (gdb) b main > (gdb) r > > cat /proc//map > [.. snip ..] > 0x8012000 0x8014000 0 2 rwx COW vnode > 0x8014000 0x801c000 0 8 rwx default > [.. snip ..] > (gdb) set *0x8012000 = 0 > (gdb) set *0x8014000 = 0 > Error accessing memory address 0x8014000: Bad address. `w' apparently means write-protected here :-). All the r-x COW vnodes are writable and all the rwx COW vnodes are non-writable. Bruce From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Sep 9 20:41:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA01934 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01929 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08409; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:41:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id WAA06464; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:40:57 -0500 Message-ID: <19970909224057.32440@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:40:57 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Bruce Evans Cc: hfwirth@ping.at, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb References: <199709100321.NAA07491@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199709100321.NAA07491@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Sep 09, 1997 at 01:21:30PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 09, 1997 at 01:21:30PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > >The problem appears to be that gdb is unable to write to any > >region that is of type OBJT_DEFAULT (default) in the above > >map, even though it is marked writable. gdb doesn't have any > >problems reading from the address, though. > > > >A simple test case: > > > > > echo 'main() {}' > test.c > > > cc -g test.c > > > gdb a.out > > (gdb) b main > > (gdb) r > > > cat /proc//map > > [.. snip ..] > > 0x8012000 0x8014000 0 2 rwx COW vnode > > 0x8014000 0x801c000 0 8 rwx default > > [.. snip ..] > > (gdb) set *0x8012000 = 0 > > (gdb) set *0x8014000 = 0 > > Error accessing memory address 0x8014000: Bad address. > > `w' apparently means write-protected here :-). All the r-x COW vnodes > are writable and all the rwx COW vnodes are non-writable. No, I don't think that's it; the write to the 'rwx COW vnode' entry succeeds, while the write to the 'rwx default' entry fails. Also, the 'default' region in doscmd was allocated via brk(), so I'd certainly hope that allocated memory isn't non-writeable. :-) I neglected to mention that this was on a -current machine, BTW. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Tue Sep 9 21:52:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05390 for emulation-outgoing; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05385 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id OAA10269; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:40:45 +1000 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:40:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199709100440.OAA10269@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jlemon@americantv.com Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, hfwirth@ping.at Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > > cat /proc//map >> > [.. snip ..] >> > 0x8012000 0x8014000 0 2 rwx COW vnode >> > 0x8014000 0x801c000 0 8 rwx default >> > [.. snip ..] >> > (gdb) set *0x8012000 = 0 >> > (gdb) set *0x8014000 = 0 >> > Error accessing memory address 0x8014000: Bad address. >> >> `w' apparently means write-protected here :-). All the r-x COW vnodes >> are writable and all the rwx COW vnodes are non-writable. > >No, I don't think that's it; the write to the 'rwx COW vnode' entry >succeeds, while the write to the 'rwx default' entry fails. Oops, I read from the wrong column in the map. >Also, the 'default' region in doscmd was allocated via brk(), so I'd >certainly hope that allocated memory isn't non-writeable. :-) > >I neglected to mention that this was on a -current machine, BTW. Even the stack is currently non-writable via ptrace :-). Try this fix. diff -c2 vm_map.c~ vm_map.c *** vm_map.c~ Mon Sep 1 18:00:38 1997 --- vm_map.c Wed Sep 10 14:02:48 1997 *************** *** 2288,2292 **** (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || (entry->wired_count != 0)) { ! if ((fault_type & (prot)) != fault_type) RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); } --- 2288,2293 ---- (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || (entry->wired_count != 0)) { ! if ((fault_type & prot) != ! (fault_type & ~VM_PROT_OVERRIDE_WRITE)) RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); } Bruce From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 07:31:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04906 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04901 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09423; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:31:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id JAA12002; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:30:30 -0500 Message-ID: <19970910093030.28970@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:30:30 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Bruce Evans Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, hfwirth@ping.at Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb References: <199709100440.OAA10269@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199709100440.OAA10269@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Sep 09, 1997 at 02:40:45PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sep 09, 1997 at 02:40:45PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > diff -c2 vm_map.c~ vm_map.c > *** vm_map.c~ Mon Sep 1 18:00:38 1997 > --- vm_map.c Wed Sep 10 14:02:48 1997 > *************** > *** 2288,2292 **** > (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || > (entry->wired_count != 0)) { > ! if ((fault_type & (prot)) != fault_type) > RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); > } > --- 2288,2293 ---- > (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || > (entry->wired_count != 0)) { > ! if ((fault_type & prot) != > ! (fault_type & ~VM_PROT_OVERRIDE_WRITE)) > RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); > } > Yup, this appears to fix the problem. With this patch, I can successfully run doscmd under gdb: > gdb obj/doscmd (gdb) handle SIGBUS nostop noprint (gdb) add-symbol-file obj/doscmd.kernel 0 (gdb) tbreak 96 (gdb) r -x Breakpoint 1 at 0x27bb: file /home/jlemon/doscmd/doscmd_loader.c, line 96. (gdb) tbreak doscmd.c:main (gdb) c Breakpoint 2 at 0x1171c1: file /home/jlemon/doscmd/doscmd.c, line 112. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 07:38:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA05218 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05205 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00810; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:05:35 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199709101405.AAA00810@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Sep 1997 18:11:26 MST." <16911.873767486@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:05:30 +1000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? Moderately. It's somewhat barer-bones than our support so far. They list 162 system calls in their dispatch list, and give 14 as "nosys". Another 61 are implemented as returning ENOSYS, ie. they implement 87 system calls to some degree. They list the following syscalls that we don't : getsid fdatasync (+) sysctl (*)(+) mlock (*)(+) munlock (*)(+) mlockall (+) munlockall (+) sched_setparam (+) sched_getparam (+) sched_setscheduler (+) sched_getsheduler (+) sched_yield (+) sched_get_priority_max (+) sched_get_priority_min (+) sched_rr_get_interval (+) (*) We could implement these, but don't. (+) They don't actually implement these, just list them. We have 146 system calls listed, 4 marked unimplemented. There are 41 ENOSYS returns, ie. we implement 101 system calls. There are a substantial number of ioctls for which they return ENOSYS, most of which we have already implemented. This is all pretty unscientific; without sitting down and doing a one-to-one comparison it's a bit difficult to convey the relative "feel" of the two emulations. mike From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 08:33:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA08303 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08276 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id RAA11723; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:33:05 +0200 (MEST) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199709101533.RAA11723@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199709101405.AAA00810@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Sep 11, 97 00:05:30 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:33:05 +0200 (MEST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? > > Moderately. It's somewhat barer-bones than our support so far. It of virtually no use to us. I've looked closer, and there is ALOT they have to learn :) > This is all pretty unscientific; without sitting down and doing a > one-to-one comparison it's a bit difficult to convey the relative > "feel" of the two emulations. I'd say thiers is a "just get hello world running" type of emulator... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 12:59:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23214 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis.ping.at (a013.static.Vienna.AT.EU.net [193.154.186.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23206 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis (localhost.ping.at [127.0.0.1]) by atlantis.ping.at (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00240; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:58:50 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <3416FBFA.41C67EA6@ping.at> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:58:50 +0200 From: "Helmut F. Wirth" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Evans CC: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Doscmd, debugging with gdb References: <199709100440.OAA10269@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: [snip] > Try this fix. > > diff -c2 vm_map.c~ vm_map.c > *** vm_map.c~ Mon Sep 1 18:00:38 1997 > --- vm_map.c Wed Sep 10 14:02:48 1997 > *************** > *** 2288,2292 **** > (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || > (entry->wired_count != 0)) { > ! if ((fault_type & (prot)) != fault_type) > RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); > } > --- 2288,2293 ---- > (entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_COW) == 0 || > (entry->wired_count != 0)) { > ! if ((fault_type & prot) != > ! (fault_type & ~VM_PROT_OVERRIDE_WRITE)) > RETURN(KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE); > } > > Bruce Hello, I tried it and it works! Can trace into and attach to doscmd. Thank you! Helmut -- Helmut F. Wirth Email: hfwirth@ping.at From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 15:42:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03417 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03397 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurricane.cs.duke.edu (hurricane.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.1]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09887; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by hurricane.cs.duke.edu (8.8.4/8.7.3) id SAA22196; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709102240.SAA22196@hurricane.cs.duke.edu> From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: Søren Schmidt Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), jkh@time.cdrom.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199709101533.RAA11723@sos.freebsd.dk> References: <199709101405.AAA00810@word.smith.net.au> <199709101533.RAA11723@sos.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA03413 Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt writes: > In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? > > > > Moderately. It's somewhat barer-bones than our support so far. > > It of virtually no use to us. I've looked closer, and there is > ALOT they have to learn :) > > > This is all pretty unscientific; without sitting down and doing a > > one-to-one comparison it's a bit difficult to convey the relative > > "feel" of the two emulations. > > I'd say thiers is a "just get hello world running" type of emulator... Well, its somewhat interesting because it runs entirely in userland and traps system calls via a SEGV handler. And because of this, I imagine that its a good bit slower. Also, their '$LINUX_ROOT' path remapping is interesting if only for its flexibility, but their choice of what paths to remap is very haphazard compared with the {Free,Net}BSD approach. BTW -- should anybody care, I just ported it to Solaris/x86 (which I'm forced to deal with at work). I'd be happy to give out the diffs. It runs Adobe Acrobat just fine (well, after installing the FreeBSD linux-libs pkg ;-) Cheers, Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 16:45:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07337 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07320 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA28111; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:14:02 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970911091402.24274@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:14:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= , Mike Smith , jkh@time.cdrom.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation References: <199709101405.AAA00810@word.smith.net.au> <199709101533.RAA11723@sos.freebsd.dk> <199709102240.SAA22196@hurricane.cs.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709102240.SAA22196@hurricane.cs.duke.edu>; from Andrew Gallatin on Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 06:40:38PM -0400 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 06:40:38PM -0400, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Søren Schmidt writes: >> In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: >>>> Could be interesting and/or instructional, yes? >>> >>> Moderately. It's somewhat barer-bones than our support so far. >> >> It of virtually no use to us. I've looked closer, and there is >> ALOT they have to learn :) >> >>> This is all pretty unscientific; without sitting down and doing a >>> one-to-one comparison it's a bit difficult to convey the relative >>> "feel" of the two emulations. >> >> I'd say thiers is a "just get hello world running" type of emulator... > > Well, its somewhat interesting because it runs entirely in userland > and traps system calls via a SEGV handler. Ugh. Is this what we have come to expect of SCO? > And because of this, I imagine that its a good bit slower. Also, > their '$LINUX_ROOT' path remapping is interesting if only for its > flexibility, but their choice of what paths to remap is very > haphazard compared with the {Free,Net}BSD approach. Doesn't sound like a serious implementation effort to me. > BTW -- should anybody care, I just ported it to Solaris/x86 (which I'm > forced to deal with at work). I'd be happy to give out the diffs. > It runs Adobe Acrobat just fine (well, after installing the FreeBSD > linux-libs pkg ;-) Well, I suppose there's that advantage, that it's portable. Greg From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 18:05:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11934 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11929 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id SAA09151; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199709110105.SAA09151@kithrup.com> To: gallatin@CS.Duke.EDU, grog@lemis.com Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, sos@sos.freebsd.dk Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Well, its somewhat interesting because it runs entirely in userland >> and traps system calls via a SEGV handler. >Ugh. Is this what we have come to expect of SCO? That is both unfair and rude. (Bit of a warning here... I've known the author ever since I interviewed at SCO, and I happen to like him.) I looked at the program; it's interesting, but not terribly exciting. However, I might have done the iBCS2 emulation the same way, if I could have -- however, trapping the system call vector in a user-mode program is hard. If 386BSD had used a different entry vector... Mike also probably would have done the program using LDT manipulation, except for the fact that the IDT is global. >> And because of this, I imagine that its a good bit slower. Also, >> their '$LINUX_ROOT' path remapping is interesting if only for its >> flexibility, but their choice of what paths to remap is very >> haphazard compared with the {Free,Net}BSD approach. >Doesn't sound like a serious implementation effort to me. To a large degree, it isn't. He did it as a quick&dirty way to be able to run the Linux port of Acrobat Reader (there is/was no SCO version), and apparantly convinced SCO to allow him to release it under a Berkeley-style license. All told, it probably took Mike about a day to write this. Perhaps you should add support for kernel-mode vm86 drivers before you start to insult Mike's efforts. (He had done this about six months before I left SCO; he decided that they were too slow to be generally usable. However, SCO doesn't have the problem that FreeBSD does, in getting documentation for cards.) Sean. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 18:13:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12372 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12367 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA28622; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:41:39 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970911104139.00351@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:41:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sean Eric Fagan Cc: gallatin@CS.Duke.EDU, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, sos@sos.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation References: <199709110105.SAA09151@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199709110105.SAA09151@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 06:05:10PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Sep 10, 1997 at 06:05:10PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: >>> Well, its somewhat interesting because it runs entirely in userland >>> and traps system calls via a SEGV handler. >> Ugh. Is this what we have come to expect of SCO? > > That is both unfair and rude. (Bit of a warning here... I've known the > author ever since I interviewed at SCO, and I happen to like him.) Well, in fact, I left the question open. I was wondering. Sure, it works (well, the concept works, and I assume the emulator does), but it's not exactly the way to get high performance. > I looked at the program; it's interesting, but not terribly exciting. > However, I might have done the iBCS2 emulation the same way, if I could > have -- however, trapping the system call vector in a user-mode program is > hard. If 386BSD had used a different entry vector... It's a question of performance. If I understand it correctly, you do a SIGSEGV for every system call. > Mike also probably would have done the program using LDT manipulation, > except for the fact that the IDT is global. Yes, I'm sure that there are constraints which made him choose this method. >>> And because of this, I imagine that its a good bit slower. Also, >>> their '$LINUX_ROOT' path remapping is interesting if only for its >>> flexibility, but their choice of what paths to remap is very >>> haphazard compared with the {Free,Net}BSD approach. >> Doesn't sound like a serious implementation effort to me. > > To a large degree, it isn't. He did it as a quick&dirty way to be able to > run the Linux port of Acrobat Reader (there is/was no SCO version), and > apparantly convinced SCO to allow him to release it under a Berkeley-style > license. > > All told, it probably took Mike about a day to write this. OK, basically you're agreeing with me. My thoughts were "this is a cheap way to get functionality. It won't bring performance". I've written plenty of that category in my time, and some of them have been great successes. Greg From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 18:16:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12492 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12486 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id SAA09679; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199709110116.SAA09679@kithrup.com> To: grog@lemis.com Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation Cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I looked at the program; it's interesting, but not terribly exciting. >> However, I might have done the iBCS2 emulation the same way, if I could >> have -- however, trapping the system call vector in a user-mode program is >> hard. If 386BSD had used a different entry vector... >It's a question of performance. If I understand it correctly, you do >a SIGSEGV for every system call. That is a problem. It takes something like three system calls for every single Linux system call. (I am counting signal delivery as equivalent to a system call; in practice, it may be a bit higher.) For syscall-intensive programs, this is a lot of overhead, and is a known limitation. However, not running at all is also quite a lot of overhead :). Sean. From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 18:48:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14308 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [206.127.225.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14268 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id PAA16428; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:47:36 -1000 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:47:36 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199709110147.PAA16428@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Sean Eric Fagan "Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation" (Sep 10, 6:05pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } >> Well, its somewhat interesting because it runs entirely in userland } >> and traps system calls via a SEGV handler. } >Ugh. Is this what we have come to expect of SCO? } } That is both unfair and rude. (Bit of a warning here... I've known the } author ever since I interviewed at SCO, and I happen to like him.) } It is NOT rude and unfair. What SCO has done to Unix is rude. Complaining when someone points this out is unfair. If your friend works for SCO then we can all feel sorry for him. If he has created some of the horrid code that SCO has shipped over the years, then perhaps not. Richard From owner-freebsd-emulation Wed Sep 10 19:46:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17879 for emulation-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17874 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id TAA14536; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:46:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199709110246.TAA14536@kithrup.com> To: richard@pegasus.com Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation Cc: emulation@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Then I suggest you stop using FreeBSD -- I worked on SCO code and am responsible for some of it. I further suggest you take your complaints about any OS -- be it SCO, Linux, or Windows -- someplace else. Sean. From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Sep 12 08:49:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12022 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12015 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA03190 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from pcconsole(192.168.100.254) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma003186; Fri, 12 Sep 97 08:48:31 -0700 Message-ID: <34196402.6F32@PartsNow.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:47:14 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@PartsNow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------222F38215136" Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------222F38215136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anybody tried porting this? -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo --------------222F38215136 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id BAA01334 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:50:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from cs.huji.ac.il(132.65.16.10) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001332; Fri, 12 Sep 97 01:50:13 -0700 Received: from mos222.cs.huji.ac.il by cs.huji.ac.il with SMTP id AA10446 (5.67b/HUJI 4.153 for ); Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:50:13 +0300 From: Oren Laadan Received: (from orenl@localhost) by mos222.cs.huji.ac.il (8.8.5/1.1c) id LAA09154 for don@partsnow.com; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:49:42 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:49:42 +0300 (IDT) Message-Id: <199709120849.LAA09154@mos222.cs.huji.ac.il> To: don@partsnow.com Subject: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0 Hi: We are pleased to announce the availability of MO6 Version 3.0 Release 1.04 (beta-4) - compatible with BSD/OS 3.0, patch level K300-001 through M300-029. MO6 is a 6 processor version of the MOSIX multicomputer enhancements of BSD/OS for a PC Cluster. If you have 2 to 6 PC's connected by a LAN, you can experience truly multi-computing environment by using the MO6 enhancements. The MO6 Distribution -------------------- MO6 is available either in "source" or "binary" distribution. It is installed as a patch to BSD/OS, using an interactive installation script. MO6 is available at http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/mirrors/mosix/ or at our site: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/mosix/ Main highlights of the current release: -------------------------------------- - Memory ushering (depletion prevention) by process migration. - Improved installation procedure. - Enhanced migration control. - Improved administration tools. - More user utilities. - More documentation and new man pages. - Dynamic configurations. Please send feedback and comments to mosix@cs.huji.ac.il. ------------------- ______ ____ ___ ___ _ __ MOSIX R&D Group ) ) ) ) ) ( ' ) \ / E-mail: Hebrew University / / / / / \ / / mosix@cs.huji.ac.il \ Jerusalem, Israel ( ( (___( ___) _(_ __/ \_______________________) --------------222F38215136-- From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Sep 12 10:21:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20138 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20091 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem08.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.38]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA06409; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:19:39 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <34199461.5C8D@asme.org> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:13:37 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: don@PartsNow.com CC: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0] References: <34196402.6F32@PartsNow.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don Wilde wrote: > > Has anybody tried porting this? Yes...the MOSIX team :-). I never heard more from them, but they were interested in porting it. Pedro. > -- > oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * > o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ > V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] > /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0 > Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:49:42 +0300 (IDT) > From: Oren Laadan > To: don@partsnow.com > > Hi: > > We are pleased to announce the availability of MO6 Version 3.0 > Release 1.04 (beta-4) - compatible with BSD/OS 3.0, patch level > K300-001 through M300-029. > > MO6 is a 6 processor version of the MOSIX multicomputer enhancements > of BSD/OS for a PC Cluster. If you have 2 to 6 PC's connected by a > LAN, you can experience truly multi-computing environment by using > the MO6 enhancements. > > The MO6 Distribution > -------------------- > MO6 is available either in "source" or "binary" distribution. It is > installed as a patch to BSD/OS, using an interactive installation > script. > > MO6 is available at http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/mirrors/mosix/ > or at our site: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/mosix/ > > Main highlights of the current release: > -------------------------------------- > - Memory ushering (depletion prevention) by process migration. > - Improved installation procedure. > - Enhanced migration control. > - Improved administration tools. > - More user utilities. > - More documentation and new man pages. > - Dynamic configurations. > > Please send feedback and comments to mosix@cs.huji.ac.il. > ------------------- > ______ ____ ___ ___ _ __ > MOSIX R&D Group ) ) ) ) ) ( ' ) \ / E-mail: > Hebrew University / / / / / \ / / mosix@cs.huji.ac.il \ > Jerusalem, Israel ( ( (___( ___) _(_ __/ \_______________________) From owner-freebsd-emulation Fri Sep 12 10:44:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22323 for emulation-outgoing; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (gatekeeper.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22318 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA04307; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:44:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from pcconsole(192.168.100.254) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma004302; Fri, 12 Sep 97 10:43:36 -0700 Message-ID: <34197EFD.599D@PartsNow.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:42:21 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: don@PartsNow.com Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro Giffuni S," CC: emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0] References: <34196402.6F32@PartsNow.com> <34199461.5C8D@asme.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Who? When I asked the same thing, they said no. I betcha if we put a few of our heads on it to go with theirs, we might get somewhere, especially since I note from their website that they have had to scramble to keep up with changes in the other BSD... -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Sep 13 08:58:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10773 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10766 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem17.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.47]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA11043; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:52:24 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <341AD16D.60D5@asme.org> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:46:21 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: don@PartsNow.com CC: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Announcing MO6 for BSD/OS 3.0] References: <34196402.6F32@PartsNow.com> <34199461.5C8D@asme.org> <34197EFD.599D@PartsNow.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI... I just asked again, and they decided to port it to Linux first for two reasons: 1) More users/coverage. 2) Better commercial compilers and tools. sorry, Pedro. (BTW..Please don't follow this up in emulation anymore) Don Wilde wrote: > > Who? When I asked the same thing, they said no. I betcha if we put a few > of our heads on it to go with theirs, we might get somewhere, especially > since I note from their website that they have had to scramble to keep > up with changes in the other BSD... > -- > oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * > o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ > V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] > /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo From owner-freebsd-emulation Sat Sep 13 15:50:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04306 for emulation-outgoing; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yoss.canweb.net (yoss.canweb.net [207.139.235.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04300 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (yossman@localhost) by yoss.canweb.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08149; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:50:32 -0400 (EDT) From: yossman To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: richard@pegasus.com, emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Net posting: SCO gets Linux emulation In-Reply-To: <199709110246.TAA14536@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i think everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and at least an opportunity to speak it. i, for one, appreciate this kind of traffic, if kept fairly low-key. richard obviously has some doubt about the SCO product line and he said so. from what i recall his original post did have some relevance to the thread at hand. you could have simply ignored his jabs at SCO, as most people here would probably have done since most people will evaluate something for themselves if they are seriously interested in checking something out. people who rely only on third-party information about anything get what they deserve. yossman On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > Then I suggest you stop using FreeBSD -- I worked on SCO code and am > responsible for some of it. > > I further suggest you take your complaints about any OS -- be it SCO, > Linux, or Windows -- someplace else. > > Sean. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Yossarian Holmberg (yossman) yossman@yossman.org System Administrator, National Online http://www.yossman.org/ my statements are my own, not my employer's -- i do not speak for them. '... and if i die, before i learn to speak .. can money pay for all the days i've lived awake but half asleep?' -- Primitive Radio Gods, "Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth With Money In My Hand"