From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 00:02:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA22695 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA22690 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vlsCZ-000IFuC; Sun, 19 Jan 97 09:02 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0vlrnF-00001XC; Sun, 19 Jan 97 08:35 MET Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: 2.1.6 CD's are shipping To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:35:53 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199701190440.VAA10326@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 18, 97 09:40:32 pm Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hopefully their way to Europe doesn't take another 4 weeks ... Waiting, -- hellmuth michaelis hm@kts.org hamburg, europe From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 00:06:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA22823 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA22817 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA11949 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:21:57 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199701190721.IAA11949@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: cleaning up TIME_WAIT states (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:21:57 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There was a discussion on the end2end list lately about TIME_WAIT states, and these look like a interesting suggestions. What's our implementation (3.0 I guess) ? Garret/David perhaps you can tell something ? Thanks Luigi > From majordom@ISI.EDU Sat Jan 18 23:00:36 1997 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:52:15 -0500 > From: "David S. Miller" > To: rstevens@kohala.com > Subject: Re: cleaning up TIME_WAIT states > > From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:32:25 -0700 > > When BSDI upgraded their stack this past summer to make their Web > server "faster", they moved all the connections in the TIME_WAIT > state onto their own queue, to get them out of the tcp_slowtimo() > function. I'd bet that's the majority of the CPU savings right > there. (I've always thought that the BSD tcp_{slow,fast}timo() > functions must be one of the biggest bottlenecks on a busy system.) > > Another technique I've seen thrown around was to keep track of the > timeouts using a heap. The idea is that the CPU overhead is mostly > from the search times, if you can begin to bound that search time even > when the list becomes huge due to all the TIME_WAIT connections, it > would help tremendously. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 03:08:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA27156 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.lanka.com ([202.51.128.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA27151 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:08:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sri.lanka.net (sri.lanka.net [202.51.128.1]) by relay.lanka.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04755 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:09:53 +0530 Received: from sri.lanka.net by sri.lanka.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0vm0mt-001tSLC; Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:12 GMT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:12 GMT X-Sender: kanani@sri.lanka.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: kanani@sri.lanka.net (Computer Science University of Jaffna Sri Lanka) X-Mailer: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To whom it may concern. INSTALLATION FAILURE OF FREEBSD WITH DOS FILE SYSTEM I have down-loaded all the necessary files(e.g., boot4.flp and /bin directory such as bin.aa, bin.ab,....) ovre the Internet, the I have sucessfully made the booting floppy. This floppy sucessfully BOOTS into my Computer and there isn't any hardware conflict. Finally there is a system installation menu appears. As it was said in the INSTALLATION.TXT, I have coppied all the files in floppies (1.44M properly formatted under the DOS operating system) in bin directory (a:\bin\bin.aa, a:\bin\bin.ab,.....). I tried to Install the FreeBSD via Novice. During the Installation process I did every thing properly. I have chosen the MINIMAL Installation option. With the media selection I have given the Floppy as the media of Installation. Every thing has gone properly until the Inseratation of the distribution floppy (a:\bin\bin.aa,....). After the Insetation of the floppy it tried to read the floppy then gave a message : "Couldn't extract the following distribution. Since the the selected media does not contain the distribution you have selected etc..." Then aborted with the incomplete Installation. After that I have taken a much pain to Install with the other options(e.g., Installing from the DOS partion etc.). I wish to point out the fact that I have done every thing properly in my part(as it was given in the relavent documents such as INSTALLTION.TXT, HARDWARE.TXT etc) I shall be thankful if you could report to me immediately about this problem. Since I am frastated very much with this. K.S.Selvarajan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 05:04:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA00537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from kavemachine.magna.com.au (kavemachine.magna.com.au [203.4.215.219]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA00531 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kaveman@localhost) by kavemachine.magna.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA20920; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:09:06 +1100 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:09:05 +1100 (EST) From: Julian Jenkins To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , terry@lambert.org, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701182325.QAA12760@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > Since really no one is interested in this discussion (or at least "no one > capable of doing anything about it by virtue of historically indentured > membership in the existing power structure"), I'll just go back to being > the observer. Propose a Model. Submit patches! Kaveman kaveman@magna.com.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 05:09:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA00619 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from farm.rz-berlin.mpg.de (farm.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE [141.14.144.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA00614 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from prospero.at.home (spring.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE [141.14.144.20]) by farm.rz-berlin.mpg.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA15586; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:09:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from graichen@localhost) by prospero.at.home (8.8.4/8.7.3) id NAA00878; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:44:27 +0100 (MET) From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home> Subject: magic of western digital disks ... ? To: tech@OpenBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:44:27 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk yesterday i noticed something very strange about wd (western digital) ide disks in OpenBSD which does'nt occur with FreeBSD - so i ask the OpenBSD people if they have any idea and the FreeBSD people if they know about any special stuff in the FreeBSD wd driver which works around the problem (i remember having read something in the FreeBSD lists some time ago) ok - and now the problem: if i have an wd disk in the computer and it is not set in the bios (for instance second disk on the first controller or any disk on the second controller - old machine with only two disks in bios) it will be detected at bootup by OpenBSD and FreeBSD correctly but i can't access it under OpenBSD (FreeBSD works fine) - under OpenBSD i get different errors - on one machine any try to access the disk (fdisk wd1 for instance) simply hangs the machine on another machine i get errors like "hard error reading block ..." - but the disk is completely ok and works fine with FreeBSD - it also works fine if it is entered into the bios (... btw. after getting the "hard error ..." messages i was short before throwing the disk away - until i discovered that setting it in the bios helped :-) i tested it with 3 different wd disks (ac2540f, ac2850h (from '94) and ac2850 (from '96)) and two different vlb eide controllers on two machines with the same mainboard - all the same - and all other disks (conner, ibm, quantum) did not show this problem ... ... so has anyone any idea why FreeBSD works around this problem ? thanks in advance t -- thomas graichen - graichen@rzpd.de graichen@OpenBSD.org graichen@FreeBSD.org perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away antoine de saint-exupery From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 05:16:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA00837 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from perki0.connect.com.au (perki0.connect.com.au [192.189.54.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA00832 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from Unemeton@localhost) by perki0.connect.com.au id AAA21288 (8.7.6h/IDA-1.6); Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:14:59 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: perki0.connect.com.au: Unemeton set sender to giles@nemeton.com.au using -f >Received: from localhost.nemeton.com.au (localhost.nemeton.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by nemeton.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA03400; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:09:37 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701191309.AAA03400@nemeton.com.au> To: Harlan Stenn cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usr.sbin/ppp: reopen ppp.log on SIGUSR1? In-reply-to: <6559.853657882@mumps.pfcs.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:09:36 +1100 From: Giles Lean Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:11:22 -0500 Harlan Stenn wrote: > - Have ppp "periodically" check the logfile and reopen it when it > detects it's been rotated (stat the file and see if ctimespec != > mtimespec, right?) Stat the file name and re-open when the device/inode pair changes. (Or when the size reduces, if you think someone might truncate in place.) Giles From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 05:33:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA01280 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA01273 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:33:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701191333.FAA01273@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA165570787; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:33:07 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: magic of western digital disks ... ? To: graichen@rzpd.de (Thomas Graichen) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:33:07 +1100 (EDT) Cc: tech@OpenBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home> from "Thomas Graichen" at Jan 19, 97 01:44:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FWIW, I was talking to a PC hardware dealer recently and he now reluctantly uses WD drives as they use "EIDE" which is a hybrid of the ATA protocol and apparently don't work with some MB's and others such as Seagate/Maxtor make drives that do ATA rather than "EIDE". I'm not sure exactly what EIDE is in relation to each... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 06:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA02907 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA02902 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA03063; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:22:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id PAA12162; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:20:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:20:18 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: graichen@rzpd.de (Thomas Graichen) Cc: tech@OpenBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: magic of western digital disks ... ? References: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home>; from Thomas Graichen on Jan 19, 1997 13:44:27 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Thomas Graichen wrote: > ...on another machine i get errors like "hard error reading block > ..." - but the disk is completely ok and works fine with FreeBSD - > it also works fine if it is entered into the bios (... btw. after > getting the "hard error ..." messages i was short before throwing > the disk away - until i discovered that setting it in the bios > helped :-) This sounds like an initialization problem. If you register it with the BIOS, the BIOS does some initialization on the disk. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 07:14:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA04804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:14:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from squirrel.tgsoft.com (squirrel.tgsoft.com [207.167.64.183]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA04798 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thompson@localhost) by squirrel.tgsoft.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) id HAA12852; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:15:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:15:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701191515.HAA12852@squirrel.tgsoft.com> From: mark thompson To: Harlan.Stenn@pfcs.com CC: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: message from Harlan Stenn on Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:11:22 -0500 Subject: Re: usr.sbin/ppp: reopen ppp.log on SIGUSR1? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Harlan Stenn Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:11:22 -0500 I'm looking for a way to have ppp reopen its log file after I "rotate out" the old one. I figure there are 2 ways to do this: Have ppp "periodically" check the logfile and reopen it when it detects it's been rotated (stat the file and see if ctimespec != mtimespec, right?) Reopen the logfile upon receipt of a signal The problem with the first alternative is that ctimespec != mtimespec only until the next write to the log file. If we don't check during that time, we'll miss detecting that the file's been rotated. That leaves the signal() approach. Anybody have a problem with my submitting a patch to reopen the log file upon receipt of, say, SIGUSR1? H Well, this may be ignorance talking, but i thought that daemons that did logging were supposed to close/open their logfiles regularly (every message?) so that they automatically get the right one after rotation. Is this not so? -mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 08:14:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA07192 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from naughty.monkey.org (naughty.monkey.org [141.211.26.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA07187 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dugsong@localhost) by naughty.monkey.org (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA07369; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:14:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:14:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dug Song To: Thomas Graichen cc: tech@openbsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: magic of western digital disks ... ? In-Reply-To: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk had the same problem trying to install 2.0 on my thinkpad. jim rees gave me this patch, which seemed to fix things: >From rees@umich.edu Mon Jan 13 14:51:40 1997 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:43:23 -0500 From: Jim Rees To: dugsong@umich.edu Subject: wd fixes *** wd.c- Sun Sep 22 05:02:32 1996 --- wd.c Wed Nov 27 15:33:52 1996 *************** *** 790,796 **** part = WDPART(dev); /* Make sure it was initialized. */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < OPEN) return ENXIO; wdc = (void *)wd->sc_dev.dv_parent; --- 790,796 ---- part = WDPART(dev); /* Make sure it was initialized. */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < READY) return ENXIO; wdc = (void *)wd->sc_dev.dv_parent; *** wdc.c- Sun Sep 22 05:02:33 1996 --- wdc.c Wed Nov 27 15:32:20 1996 *************** *** 348,361 **** d_link=xfer->d_link; if (wdc->sc_errors >= WDIORETRIES) { ! wderror(d_link, bp, "hard error"); xfer->c_flags |= C_ERROR; wdc_ata_done(wdc, xfer); return; } /* Do control operations specially. */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < OPEN) { /* * Actually, we want to be careful not to mess with the control * state if the device is currently busy, but we can assume --- 348,361 ---- d_link=xfer->d_link; if (wdc->sc_errors >= WDIORETRIES) { ! wderror(d_link, bp, "wdcstart hard error"); xfer->c_flags |= C_ERROR; wdc_ata_done(wdc, xfer); return; } /* Do control operations specially. */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < READY) { /* * Actually, we want to be careful not to mess with the control * state if the device is currently busy, but we can assume *************** *** 671,681 **** void *arg; { struct wdc_softc *wdc = arg; - bus_chipset_tag_t bc = wdc->sc_bc; - bus_io_handle_t ioh = wdc->sc_ioh; struct wdc_xfer *xfer; if ((wdc->sc_flags & WDCF_IRQ_WAIT) == 0) { u_char s; #ifdef ATAPI_DEBUG_WDC u_char e, i; --- 671,682 ---- void *arg; { struct wdc_softc *wdc = arg; struct wdc_xfer *xfer; if ((wdc->sc_flags & WDCF_IRQ_WAIT) == 0) { + #ifndef REES + bus_chipset_tag_t bc = wdc->sc_bc; + bus_io_handle_t ioh = wdc->sc_ioh; u_char s; #ifdef ATAPI_DEBUG_WDC u_char e, i; *************** *** 703,708 **** --- 704,710 ---- #endif wdcbit_bucket (wdc, len); } + #endif return 0; } *************** *** 738,744 **** untimeout(wdctimeout, wdc); /* Is it not a transfer, but a control operation? */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < OPEN) { if (wdccontrol(d_link) == 0) { /* The drive is busy. Wait. */ return 1; --- 740,746 ---- untimeout(wdctimeout, wdc); /* Is it not a transfer, but a control operation? */ ! if (d_link->sc_state < READY) { if (wdccontrol(d_link) == 0) { /* The drive is busy. Wait. */ return 1; *************** *** 773,781 **** goto bad; #endif wdcunwedge(wdc); - if (wdc->sc_errors < WDIORETRIES) return 1; wderror(d_link, xfer->c_bp, "hard error"); --- 775,787 ---- goto bad; #endif + if (wdc->sc_errors == (WDIORETRIES + 1) / 2) { + wderror(d_link, NULL, "wedgie"); wdcunwedge(wdc); return 1; + } + if (++wdc->sc_errors < WDIORETRIES) + goto restart; wderror(d_link, xfer->c_bp, "hard error"); *************** *** 1235,1241 **** case MULTIMODE: multimode: if (d_link->sc_mode != WDM_PIOMULTI) ! goto open; bus_io_write_1(bc, ioh, wd_seccnt, d_link->sc_multiple); if (wdccommandshort(wdc, d_link->sc_drive, WDCC_SETMULTI) != 0) { --- 1241,1247 ---- case MULTIMODE: multimode: if (d_link->sc_mode != WDM_PIOMULTI) ! goto ready; bus_io_write_1(bc, ioh, wd_seccnt, d_link->sc_multiple); if (wdccommandshort(wdc, d_link->sc_drive, WDCC_SETMULTI) != 0) { *************** *** 1254,1263 **** } /* fall through */ ! case OPEN: ! open: wdc->sc_errors = 0; ! d_link->sc_state = OPEN; /* * The rest of the initialization can be done by normal means. */ --- 1260,1269 ---- } /* fall through */ ! case READY: ! ready: wdc->sc_errors = 0; ! d_link->sc_state = READY; /* * The rest of the initialization can be done by normal means. */ *** wdlink.h- Wed Sep 11 03:27:04 1996 --- wdlink.h Wed Nov 27 15:10:52 1996 *************** *** 85,91 **** #define GEOMETRY_WAIT 3 /* done uploading geometry */ #define MULTIMODE 4 /* set multiple mode */ #define MULTIMODE_WAIT 5 /* done setting multiple mode */ ! #define OPEN 6 /* done with open */ int sc_mode; /* transfer mode */ #define WDM_PIOSINGLE 0 /* single-sector PIO */ #define WDM_PIOMULTI 1 /* multi-sector PIO */ --- 85,91 ---- #define GEOMETRY_WAIT 3 /* done uploading geometry */ #define MULTIMODE 4 /* set multiple mode */ #define MULTIMODE_WAIT 5 /* done setting multiple mode */ ! #define READY 6 /* done with open */ int sc_mode; /* transfer mode */ #define WDM_PIOSINGLE 0 /* single-sector PIO */ #define WDM_PIOMULTI 1 /* multi-sector PIO */ --- Douglas Song dugsong@{umich.edu,monkey.org} University of Michigan ITD GPCC Unix Services www: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dugsong keyid: C2263445 fingerprint: BF F5 20 EA DA 2F C4 F4 7D 68 4A 50 E4 35 D1 17 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 08:21:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA07345 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA07340 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA26892 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:20:43 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id RAA15541 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:20:20 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id RAA21300; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:10:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:10:31 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: usr.sbin/ppp: reopen ppp.log on SIGUSR1? References: <199701191515.HAA12852@squirrel.tgsoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58.1-8,11-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2925 In-Reply-To: <199701191515.HAA12852@squirrel.tgsoft.com>; from mark thompson on Jan 19, 1997 07:15:16 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to mark thompson: > Well, this may be ignorance talking, but i thought that daemons that did > logging were supposed to close/open their logfiles regularly (every > message?) so that they automatically get the right one after > rotation. Is this not so? syslogd(8) keeps all the files open all the time. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 08:22:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA07400 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA07393 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id RAA05414; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:20:56 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id QAA12430; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:57:54 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:57:54 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: thompson@tgsoft.com (mark thompson) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: usr.sbin/ppp: reopen ppp.log on SIGUSR1? References: <199701191515.HAA12852@squirrel.tgsoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701191515.HAA12852@squirrel.tgsoft.com>; from mark thompson on Jan 19, 1997 07:15:16 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As mark thompson wrote: > Well, this may be ignorance talking, but i thought that daemons that did > logging were supposed to close/open their logfiles regularly (every > message?) so that they automatically get the right one after > rotation. Is this not so? It's not. The general protocol is to send the daemon a SIGHUP in order to have it re-read its config file, and reopen its logfile(s). I'm afraid SIGHUP is not really available for a PPP daemon, since it is meaningful there (unlike with other daemons that don't run on a tty). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 09:20:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA10016 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA10010 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA26372; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:20:02 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05444 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id KAA02747 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701191527.KAA02747@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: cron problems in 2.1.6.1 (not signaling crond of a change in a cron Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > Aha! That's what didn't work - apparently. > > > > find_user() appears to only look for existing users. If you're > > adding a brand-new user crontab; it seems to be broken. > > Umm. Speak with Paul Vixie about this, this looks like a design flaw. > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) Okaley-Dokaley :-) I was the first guy to port Paul's cron to LINUX some years ago; so I've e-talked with him before... I think I'll wait until I have a fix before I bother him about it. - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 11:08:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA14615 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA14609 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA23245; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:05:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701191905.LAA23245@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cleaning up TIME_WAIT states (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:21:57 +0100." <199701190721.IAA11949@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:05:34 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >There was a discussion on the end2end list lately about TIME_WAIT >states, and these look like a interesting suggestions. What's our >implementation (3.0 I guess) ? Garret/David perhaps you can tell >something ? > > Thanks > Luigi > >> From majordom@ISI.EDU Sat Jan 18 23:00:36 1997 >> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:52:15 -0500 >> From: "David S. Miller" >> To: rstevens@kohala.com >> Subject: Re: cleaning up TIME_WAIT states >> >> From: rstevens@kohala.com (W. Richard Stevens) >> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:32:25 -0700 >> >> When BSDI upgraded their stack this past summer to make their Web >> server "faster", they moved all the connections in the TIME_WAIT >> state onto their own queue, to get them out of the tcp_slowtimo() >> function. I'd bet that's the majority of the CPU savings right >> there. (I've always thought that the BSD tcp_{slow,fast}timo() >> functions must be one of the biggest bottlenecks on a busy system.) >> >> Another technique I've seen thrown around was to keep track of the >> timeouts using a heap. The idea is that the CPU overhead is mostly >> from the search times, if you can begin to bound that search time even >> when the list becomes huge due to all the TIME_WAIT connections, it >> would help tremendously. This was an issue prior to when FreeBSD had PCB hashing. It's not a significant issue now, however. I think the extra overhead in moving the PCB to the other queue would negate any benefit. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 11:38:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA15479 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA15470 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.8.4/8.8.2) id UAA04513 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:37:35 +0100 (MET) From: Guido van Rooij Message-Id: <199701191937.UAA04513@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Antwerp conference..who's going To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:37:35 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Will anyone on this list be visiting the NLUG/OTA conference in Antwerp in February? The program looks interesting (with Eric Allman, Evi Nemeth and Rob Kolstadt) Perhaps we could meet or setup a BOF. Here's the URL: http://www.nluug.nl/nluug/ota-nluug97/ota-nluug.html -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 11:52:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA16093 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from granuaile.eunet.ie (granuaile.ieunet.ie [192.111.39.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA16083 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from x400.eunet.ie by granuaile.eunet.ie id <12593-0@granuaile.eunet.ie>; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:52:10 +0000 Subject: Re: kern/2516: Filesystem trouble in 2.2-BETA_A To: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:52:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Nick Hilliard Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701171840.NAA09747@lakes.water.net> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Jan 17, 97 01:40:47 pm X-Organisation: EUnet Ireland -- Internet Services Provider X-Address: 4 Westland Square, Dublin 2, Ireland X-Phone: [+353] 1 6790832 X-Fax: [+353] 1 6708118 X-URL: http://www.eunet.ie/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <"granuaile..596:19.00.97.19.52.14"@x400.eunet.ie> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well - I'd have to say that this is exactly the type of > panic I have experienced with 2.1.0, 2.1.5 and 2.1.5-STABLE. Really? I've never seen in before in either 2.1.0 or 2.1.5 > Interestingly enough, my recently installed 2.1.6.1 hasn't (yet) > experienced it. > > I've been trying to determine a consistent reproduction; if you > can accomplish this - I'm sure it would go a long way toward > fixing this problem. As I say, it just happened once. I don't know whether this is going to happen again in a hurry -- 2.2-BETA hasn't been on the machine for terribly long. Nick From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 12:08:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA16711 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA16697 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA23398; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:05:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701192005.MAA23398@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cleaning up TIME_WAIT states (fwd) From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:05:43 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> When BSDI upgraded their stack this past summer to make their Web >> server "faster", they moved all the connections in the TIME_WAIT >> state onto their own queue, to get them out of the tcp_slowtimo() >> function. I'd bet that's the majority of the CPU savings right >> there. (I've always thought that the BSD tcp_{slow,fast}timo() >> functions must be one of the biggest bottlenecks on a busy system.) >> >>> Another technique I've seen thrown around was to keep track of the >>> timeouts using a heap. The idea is that the CPU overhead is mostly >>> from the search times, if you can begin to bound that search time even >>> when the list becomes huge due to all the TIME_WAIT connections, it >>> would help tremendously. I said: > This was an issue prior to when FreeBSD had PCB hashing. It's not a >significant issue now, however. I think the extra overhead in moving the >PCB to the other queue would negate any benefit. Of course I entirely missed that the point above is to reduce the search time for slow timeout processing. I should have actually read the message before responding. :-) We actually have PCBs threaded on two queues right now. A linear queue for everything (for doing linear searches, especially in the timeout case), and a hashed list for hashed PCB lookups. Perhaps TIME_WAIT connections could be moved off the linear queue and onto the tail of a (sorted) TIME_WAIT queue. This would mean that all other places where the linear search occurs would have to be made aware of the other queue, but this case is rare and I don't think the overhead would be significant. So...it's an interesting idea that I'll put on my whiteboard. Thanks! -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 12:23:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA17342 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA17337 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA12322 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:23:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA15427; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:21:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:21:11 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: Antwerp conference..who's going References: <199701191937.UAA04513@gvr.win.tue.nl> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701191937.UAA04513@gvr.win.tue.nl>; from Guido van Rooij on Jan 19, 1997 20:37:35 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Guido van Rooij wrote: > Will anyone on this list be visiting the NLUG/OTA conference > in Antwerp in February? The program looks interesting (with Eric Allman, > Evi Nemeth and Rob Kolstadt) > Perhaps we could meet or setup a BOF. Too bad, that's exactly by the same time as the GUUG Annual Spring Conference is held in Köln. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 13:22:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA19148 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:22:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from watt.cae.uwm.edu (root@watt.cae.uwm.edu [129.89.52.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA19143 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:22:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hench (hench.cae.uwm.edu [129.89.51.1]) by watt.cae.uwm.edu (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02092; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:22:38 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:22:35 +0000 () From: "Michael L. Hench" To: Bill Paul cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NIS breakage In-Reply-To: <199701192051.PAA01100@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hench@watt.cae.uwm.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk a quick note. 2.2. supped this morning, i cant seem to tfr a map > ~38k, as measured by 'ypcat passwd.byname'. ypserv is local, doesnt seem to matter WHICH 38k (not data dependent). lots of wierdness trying a 98k map; ypserv cores (the child), sometimes loops (sends same lines over and over) ill see if i can get a better idea as to what/where/when. i did a make world 2x so i dont think anything is inconsistent. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 14:11:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA21076 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (glacier-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA21071 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.epa.ericsson.se (epa.epa.ericsson.se [146.11.8.1]) by glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-0.9) with SMTP id XAA04022; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:08:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from brpc795.epa.ericsson.se by mailhost.epa.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-EPA1.6) id AA20568; Mon, 20 Jan 97 09:08:05 EST Message-Id: <32E39BA6.2BDA@epa.ericsson.se> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:21:58 -0800 From: Mark Hannon Organization: Ericsson Australia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: "Hannon, Mark (seeware)" , support@xinside.com Subject: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've been having a less than successfull time getting the X-inside CDE product working. I am running FreeBSD-2.1.5 with XFree 3.1.2 as the base X installation. X11R6 & local X-clients & Swim-Motif 2.0 are installed as /usr/local/X11R6. This configuration has been working quite well until the CDE installation. First of all the installation deleted my symlink from /usr/X11R6 -> /usr/local/X11R6 and installed a swag of files under the X11R6 directory. I manually cp -pRed them over to usr/local and recreated the symlink. A similar deal happened with /usr/X386 so I recreated that symlink as well. At that point I could successfully login to the system. Unfortunately I would get random sig11's when starting dtmail and/or dtpad. In the case of dtmail it seems to work if you try it several times - not repeatable. dtpad seems to have a problem when starting up as part of the login session, ie if I logout whilst editing a file - sometimes dtpad starts again and sometimes not.... Has anybody had similar problems? Is there some combination of shared libraries which could lead to this behaviour? On a related note, after installing CDE I could not get my old xemacs-19.14 binary to run. It would segfault with some message about badPixmaps. I deleted the libXpm installed by CDE and reran ldconfig. Now xemacs starts up. Note: I had my segfaulting problems both before and after deleting the Xinside CDE library. Any ideas? Regards/Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 14:14:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA21190 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA21185 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA14188; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:59:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701192159.OAA14188@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:59:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <7144.853657744@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 18, 97 11:09:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One of my main talents is the ability to see order in apparently chatotic systems. But further, I see orders of order in these systems. This is what makes me a good systems engineer. This is also what allows me to ask *precisely* the most inconvenient question that can be asked in any given situation, since there is a great human tendency to favor the status quo. Let me put on my social systems engineering cap, and ask some questions about "FreeBSD the social organism". Let's look at the situation, the order of the situation, and the degree of the order of the situation. A nice physics analogy: Q = m mass Q' = m ds/dt momentum Q'' = 1/2 m (ds/dt)^2 kinetic energy I'll limit myself to asking order 0, 1, and 2 questions, and stay out of the more esoteric heights. [ ... task list ... ] > None of these 4 items are much in dispute, and you are raising "lack > of sufficient clued-in personnel to do the job" issues again, not much > else. AGREEMENT: The problem is lack of people. OBSERVATION: Other OS's have achieved these tasks. QUESTION: Why is it that the "sufficient clued-in personnel to do the job" were not lacking in their camps, but *are* lacking in the FreeBSD camp? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that promotes this? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to promote the generation and/or maintenance of increased levels of "sufficient clued-in personnel to do the job"? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. > John Polstra (now a core team member) has been working on ELF > for a few years now, and I haven't exactly seen a tremendous > outpouring of interest in his work - he's probably dropped it back on > his TODO list for lack of interest. AGREEMENT: There is a lack of interest in John's work having been exhibited by the FreeBSD camp. OBSERVATION: Other OS's have moved to ELF QUESTION: Why has the interest been missing in the FreeBSD camp, but not missing in other camps? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that promotes this? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to promote the generation and/or maintenance of increased levels of interest in moving to new, better technologies (including but not limited to ELF)? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. [ ... about ELF ... ] > Sometimes engineers will out-clever themselves in > their rush to the latest, shiny technology, and I think that a > premature move to ELF would have been a good example of this. Let's > fix some of our nastier bugs and give the users something to run > before we decide to break the world. Post-2.2 might be a good time. AGREEMENT: Premature adoption of a technology is a bad idea OBSERVATION: ELF technology is now mature (it works) QUESTION: Why is is that the adoption of ELF is categorized as premature, when it works? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that promotes the categorization of the proposed adoption as premature, despite the camps stated primary goal of research? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to promote the reduced conservatism required for the FreeBSD camp to better enable it to achieve it's stated primary goal of research? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. > The more-than-on-Intel issue was also a resource problem and, unlike > yourself, few of us have had non-Intel systems to even play with. I > know that I originally gravitated to the PC because it's the only > machine I could *afford*, and I've not been blessed with work > situations which netted me cheap/used workstation hardware as a > side-effect so that was basically it on the cross-platform issues for > me (and no, a pc532 port just wasn't *that* interesting :-) AGREEMENT: Hardware availability is the primary obstacle to multiplatform support OBSERVATION: The Linux camp has hardware donated by major vendors and other interested parties. So have the MACH, NetBSD, and OpenBSD camps. I have received personal email containing such offers, addressed to me, not to the camp. QUESTION: Why is hardware made available to the other camps, either in the form of corporate sponsorship for ports, or in the form of people who already have the hardware available volunteering their effort, but the same is not true for FreeBSD? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that prevents the same people from flocking to FreeBSD's door instead of Linux, MACH, NetBSD, and OpenBSD's doors? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to promote the participation of corporate sponsors and volunteers who already own the hardware? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. > > o Kernel multithreading/reentrancy changes > > Work. Someone needs to do it. AGREEMENT: Someone needs to simply do the work OBSERVATION: I submitted patches in June of 1994 which were in line with this goal, but a number of excuses were responsible for them not being integrated (incuding, it must be admitted, that kernel multithreading was not an overall project goal at the time, and people do not see issues of overall complexity the way I do, and so could not percieve the relationships). There are allegorically equivalent examples in other areas of FreeBSD, most notably, the build envirnment. QUESTION: Why is not "simply doing the work" not enough? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that imposes hidden conditions above and beyond those implied by the stated goals themselves? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to insure that all conditions are presented up front instead of hidden, such that "simply doing the work" becomes sufficient cause for inclusion of the work by the project? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. > > o More and more subsystems having architecturally bereft patches > > applied to them for reasons of expediency (make the problem > > submerge instead of fixing it). Question: how many of the > > This is a software engineering problem which you must *always* grapple > with, no matter how big you are or how many engineers you have. AGREEMENT: This is a problem which you must *always* grapple with OBSERVATION: This is a operational *process* problem, not a software engineering problem, so it is unlikely to be amenable to a software engineering soloution, but should certainly be attacked by considering operational process engineering. QUESTION: Why must the soloution to this problem require human intervention, instead of the being implicit in the definition of the process? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that prevents it from modifying its process to imply a soloution to this (and similar) problems? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to cause the process of meta-process itself to implicitly solve this class of problems, which are themselves implicitly soluable with process? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. > We're > in the middle of a growth period right now, and that means that we > have to put greater emphasis on solving user problems (even if it > sometimes requires an "expedient" type of solution) than we do on > pie-in-the-sky "just virtualize the frammitz and ensure that the > breemis doesn't cross interface boundries" types of proposals which > may be architecturally superior, but will also probably never be > implemented in time to save the user's neck. Do that about 10 times > and your users desert you with well-justified claims of "those losers > don't care about my problems, they just care about some weird hacker > asthetic." AGREEMENT: There are external forces which attempt to promote expediency for their own benefit, without regard to the consequences when measured against the stated goals of the overall project. OBSERVATION: A recent discussion with this same subject line revisited corporate modelling, with the prominant observation that short term expediency is adverse to long term success. In point of fact, inclusion of SVR3-style fixed address shared libraries was passed up *despite* pressures to expediency in the early phases of FreeBSD itself. QUESTION: How can FreeBSD get back to its less expedient roots to better insure long term viability for itself? QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, the abstracted variable, that allows it to be influenced by pressures to expediency, when it was not previously influenced by those same pressures? QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD camp, itself, to deemphasize the power of expediency in the overall decision-making process? PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to the question. [ ... ] You can supply your own complexity decomposition examples for the rest. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 14:32:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA21905 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA21900 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:32:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA14223; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:16:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701192216.PAA14223@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: kaveman@magna.com.au (Julian Jenkins) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:16:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Jenkins" at Jan 20, 97 00:09:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Since really no one is interested in this discussion (or at least "no one > > capable of doing anything about it by virtue of historically indentured > > membership in the existing power structure"), I'll just go back to being > > the observer. > > Propose a Model. Submit patches! Droll. A model was proposed and patches submitted in the fashion you suggest. The pre-patched model was "NetBSD" and the post-patched model is "OpenBSD". Unfortunately, the patches consisted of modifications of the data against which the process was run rather than patches to the process ...rather remniscent of George Orwell's "Animal Farm". I question whether the data, once a model is instantiated, will not actively seek to revert the model, to the detriment of all involved. A nice analogy can be had by noting the P6 still has an 8086 mode so the data doesn't have to change. Like dark matter, the data created in the framework of one model has mass and inertia, and therefore a rather Newtonian bias against change. Bluntly: once in a rut on a dirt road, the tendency is to remain in the rut, even if you have an onramp to a paved road right next to you. Anyone can be core team member if they form their own core team; the question is one of whether or not the formation of a core team in the first place isn't the source of some of the problems the fleeing individuals are trying (unsuccessfully, observations indicate) to escape. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 14:44:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA22419 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA22414 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA02529; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:41:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701192241.OAA02529@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: kaveman@magna.com.au (Julian Jenkins), jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:41:24 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:16:12 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > A model was proposed and patches submitted in the fashion you > suggest. The pre-patched model was "NetBSD" and the post-patched > model is "OpenBSD". What on _earth_ are you talking about? > Anyone can be core team member if they form their own core team; the ...ah, this must be it... *smirk* NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 15:34:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA24317 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA24312 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1113 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Jan 1997 23:34:15 -0000 Date: 19 Jan 1997 18:34:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: Mark Hannon cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Hannon, Mark \(seeware\)" , support@xinside.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: <32E39BA6.2BDA@epa.ericsson.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Mark Hannon wrote: > I am running FreeBSD-2.1.5 with XFree 3.1.2 as the base X > installation. X11R6 & local X-clients & Swim-Motif 2.0 are > installed as /usr/local/X11R6. > > This configuration has been working quite well until the CDE > installation. > > First of all the installation deleted my symlink from /usr/X11R6 > -> /usr/local/X11R6 and installed a swag of files under the > X11R6 directory. I manually cp -pRed them over to usr/local > and recreated the symlink. A similar deal happened with > /usr/X386 so I recreated that symlink as well. Mark- I had XFree86 installed too but decided to follow Xinside's advice in the docs and delete all of XFree except the Xinside xserver stuff which was installed at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/AcceleratedX. This installation appears to be problem-free. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 15:45:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA24876 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA24869 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA00910 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:45:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id AAA16101; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:35:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:35:18 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation References: <7144.853657744@time.cdrom.com> <199701192159.OAA14188@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701192159.OAA14188@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 19, 1997 14:59:00 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > One of my main talents is the ability to see order in apparently > chatotic systems. But further, I see orders of order in these > systems. This is what makes me a good systems engineer. Articles of more than five pages should be required to come with an abstract... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 16:15:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA27219 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA27212 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from becker2.u.washington.edu by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0vm7OK-0008xfC; Sun, 19 Jan 97 16:15 PST Received: from localhost (spaz@localhost) by becker2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW96.12) with SMTP id QAA16524 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:13:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:13:41 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: AMD-K5-100 cache errors? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi gang; I just bought a fugutech pentium/pci/isa motherboard ( basically an oem board, the manual has no identification whatsoever ). It has triton2, mmx( vx? whatever ) and usb ( fully buzzword compliant :-) ). With 32m of ram and the k5-100, i spent 250.00. I thought that was a pretty good deal. So i installed 2.1.6 because i cant get the ppp install to work with 2.2-BETA. My only problem is that i get sig11's when i try and compile things :-(. Having visited the web page and the FAQ, i disabled various caches until i discovered that disabling the internal cache eliminated the problem. Now, is this a defective chip or is this a known problem with using the k5 and freebsd? The problem only manifests itself during compilations. Any suggestions vastly appreciated. tnx! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 16:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA29205 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA29200 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA (8.7.1/8.6.10) id TAA18520; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:49:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:49:26 -0500 (EST) From: Yves Lepage Message-Id: <199701200049.TAA18520@maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA> To: hench@cae.uwm.edu, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: NIS breakage Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I use FreeBSD's implementation of NIS for production. Although broken, it's the cleanest and most stable implementation that I've been using. Which is why we use this one as opposed to using Sun's. I use huge maps (huge, from NIS's point of view) and 38k doesn't seem to be a limit for me. It's true though that I use 2.1.5. Problems that I have seen in FreeBSD's NIS: - ypcat is broken. a 'ypcat passwd' doesn't give me nearly as many entries as there are in the map - yp_mkdb -u gives me slightly better results but some entries are still missing. The only way I have found so far to compare a map and the master.passwd file is to extract usernames from the master.passwd and ypmatch them all against the passwd.byname map. I have to do this because sometimes, some entries will be "forgotten" by the maps building process. This doesn't happen very often, fortunately. Yves Lepage From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 17:03:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA29976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA29969 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA26924; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:33:20 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701200103.LAA26924@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: AMD-K5-100 cache errors? In-Reply-To: from John Utz at "Jan 19, 97 04:13:41 pm" To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:33:19 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Utz stands accused of saying: > My only problem is that i get sig11's when i try and compile > things :-(. Having visited the web page and the FAQ, i disabled various > caches until i discovered that disabling the internal cache eliminated the > problem. Now, is this a defective chip or is this a known problem with > using the k5 and freebsd? The problem only manifests itself during > compilations. Sounds like memory. We've been using K5-PR100's here as a cost-effective Pentium alternative for some time now (in Soltek VX boards) and have had no complaints at all. (I regularly world and have recently joined the 'make release' club 8) You wouldn't, by any chance, have 4x8M Hyundai SIMMs would you? We've been having _terrible_ trouble with Hyundai memory parts over the last month or two. > John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 17:53:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA02699 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA02692 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA06851; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:53:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:53:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Kim Culhan cc: Mark Hannon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Hannon, Mark (seeware)" , support@xinside.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 19 Jan 1997, Kim Culhan wrote: > I had XFree86 installed too but decided to follow Xinside's advice in the > docs and delete all of XFree except the Xinside xserver stuff which > was installed at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/AcceleratedX. Out of curiosity, does anyone know the nature of CDE's dependancy on the Accelerated X server? I was thinking about getting CDE, but then noticed on the X Inside page about it it said that Accelerated X is required. I'd also be interested to know how much memory (vss and typical rss) the window manager, session manager, file manager and friends sucks up. On a 32 megabyte 100MHz Pentium box, would there be anything left to actually run anything without thrashing? -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 18:19:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA05220 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA05214 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id CAA20961; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:19:39 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:19:39 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Insure++ (was Re: Who wants code development...) In-Reply-To: <7388.853285745@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, we were recently approached at USENIX by ParaSoft, Inc., a > company which makes a Purify-like product called "Insure++" (so called > because it handles both C and C++ code), and they indicated a strong > interest in doing a FreeBSD version if a market could be shown to > exist for it. They already provide products for Linux and BSD/OS, and > if we want them to do a FreeBSD version then we now just need to LET > THEM KNOW! ;-) > > In order to facilitate that process, Parasoft has even been kind > enough to set up a special web page at: > > http://www.parasoft.com/forms/bsd/ > > If you're interested in the idea of buying Insure++ or CodeWizard, and > there's even a place to signify how much you'd be willing to pay for > them meaning you should *definitely* fill out the survey if you'd like > to have some effect on the purchase price as well as the availability > of of these products, please take a few minutes to visit this page and > fill out the survey. Information on both products is also provided > here. I sent inquiries to these guys about 6 months ago to do a FreeBSD version. The tone of the replies seemed to indicate that there are FreeBSD heads within the organization waiting for a go ahead. If you want a debugging tool that is aware of the majority of Unix system calls, X/Motif, etc., and are willing to pay for it then by all means signup. I think these guys were originally CIT supercomputer researchers who built a lot of tools to help with their research. Then then realized that their tools would make excellent products. Regards / Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 18:44:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA06375 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA06370 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (rohans@espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.26]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08195; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:44:08 -0500 (EST) From: Rohan Shivkumar Received: (rohans@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.6.4) id VAA02907; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:44:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:44:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701200244.VAA02907@espresso.eng.umd.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: rohans@Glue.umd.edu Subject: Anybody have user level TCP? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was wondering if people on this list knew of a User level Implementations of TCP for FreeBSD/NetBSD/BSDI/Linux. If so, I would appreciate any pointers you could send me. Thanks much. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 18:54:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA06829 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (glacier-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA06821 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:54:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.epa.ericsson.se (epa.epa.ericsson.se [146.11.8.1]) by glacier.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-0.9) with SMTP id DAA19685; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 03:54:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from brpc795.epa.ericsson.se by mailhost.epa.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-EPA1.6) id AA05369; Mon, 20 Jan 97 13:54:19 EST Message-Id: <32E3DEB7.57F8@epa.ericsson.se> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:08:07 -0800 From: Mark Hannon Organization: Ericsson Australia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: John Fieber Cc: Kim Culhan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Hannon, Mark (seeware)" , support@xinside.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber wrote: > > > Out of curiosity, does anyone know the nature of CDE's dependancy > on the Accelerated X server? I was thinking about getting CDE, > but then noticed on the X Inside page about it it said that > Accelerated X is required. > Don't know about that one. > I'd also be interested to know how much memory (vss and typical > rss) the window manager, session manager, file manager and > friends sucks up. On a 32 megabyte 100MHz Pentium box, would > there be anything left to actually run anything without > thrashing? > Can't give you any figures from here but I have a P100 w/32MB, and it works fine. I'll print out some figures tonight when I get home. /Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 19:00:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA07133 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA07121 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25259 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:40:27 GMT Message-Id: <199701200240.CAA25259@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: masqd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:40:27 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that outgoing ICMP (initiated from the diverting machine) get diverted correctly along with the incoming ones - it seems to just be the turnaround code..... -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 19:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA07152 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA07132 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25196 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:32:02 GMT Message-Id: <199701200232.CAA25196@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ipdivert & masqd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:32:01 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, as a start to "masqd", I've written a filter that doesn nothing. It receives a packet, outputs bits of info, then inserts it back into the IP stream (after fixing the IP checksum if it's an "in" packet). Works fine for tcp connections (telnet at least) & udp (NFS at least), but only half-works for ICMP. It gets the incoming ICMP (ping), fixes the sum and does the sendto(), but never sees the reply. The reply is received by the sender though..... Is anyone currently working on this divert code ? Or should I fix this ? TIA. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 19:23:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA07863 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.HiWAAY.net (max7-109.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA07858 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nexgen.HiWAAY.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.HiWAAY.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA19244; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:22:33 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701200322.VAA19244@nexgen.HiWAAY.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Rohan Shivkumar cc: hackers@freebsd.org From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Anybody have user level TCP? In-reply-to: Message from Rohan Shivkumar of "Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:44:06 EST." <199701200244.VAA02907@espresso.eng.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:22:32 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I was wondering if people on this list knew of a User level Implementations > of TCP for FreeBSD/NetBSD/BSDI/Linux. If so, I would appreciate any pointers > you could send me. What you describe is commonly used in amateur radio. You might start at ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/hamradio/packet/tcpip. Then the directories tnos, and wampes would be of most interest to Unix users. Most of that code is based on the work by Phil Karn, KA9Q, http://www.qualcomm.com/people/pkarn/tcpip.h tml, KA9Q doesn't support Unix. The home page for TNOS is http://www.lantz.com/. I'm running TNOS under FreeBSD for my amateur station. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 19:41:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA08619 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA08613 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA02811; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:38:28 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199701200338.WAA02811@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: NIS breakage To: hench@cae.uwm.edu (Michael L. Hench) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:38:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael L. Hench" at Jan 19, 97 03:22:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Michael L. Hench had to walk into mine and say: > a quick note. 2.2. supped this morning, i cant seem to tfr a map > ~38k, > as measured by 'ypcat passwd.byname'. ypserv is local, doesnt seem to > matter WHICH 38k (not data dependent). > lots of wierdness trying a 98k map; ypserv cores (the child), sometimes > loops (sends same lines over and over) ill see if i can get a better idea > as to what/where/when. i did a make world 2x so i dont think anything is > inconsistent. Hm. Well, I did find a bug in ypserv/yp_dblookup.c:yp_next_record() which looks like it might be the cause of your trouble. I've committed the fix to the RELENG_2_2 and -current branches. Since it's small, here's a patch: *** yp_dblookup.c Mon Jan 13 23:20:26 1997 --- yp_dblookup.c.new Sun Jan 19 19:20:09 1997 *************** *** 600,607 **** rval = yp_first_record(dbp,key,data,allow); if (rval == YP_NOKEY) return(YP_NOMORE); ! else return(rval); } if (ypdb_debug) --- 600,612 ---- rval = yp_first_record(dbp,key,data,allow); if (rval == YP_NOKEY) return(YP_NOMORE); ! else { ! #ifdef DB_CACHE ! qhead.cqh_first->dbptr->key = key->data; ! qhead.cqh_first->dbptr->size = key->size; ! #endif return(rval); + } } if (ypdb_debug) Please let me know if this changes ypserv's behavior, one way or the other. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 19:57:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA09035 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA09022 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA02831; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:54:48 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199701200354.WAA02831@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: NIS breakage To: yves@CC.McGill.CA (Yves Lepage) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:54:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701200049.TAA18520@maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA> from "Yves Lepage" at Jan 19, 97 07:49:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Yves Lepage had to walk into mine and say: > Hi, > > I use FreeBSD's implementation of NIS for production. > > Although broken, it's the cleanest and most stable implementation > that I've been using. Which is why we use this one as opposed to using > Sun's. > > I use huge maps (huge, from NIS's point of view) and 38k doesn't > seem to be a limit for me. It's true though that I use 2.1.5. You use 2.1.5 as a production NIS server? Wow. Even I don't like the 2.1.5 ypserv, and I'm responsible for it being there. :) For the record, I use a sample passwd map with 30,000+ entries in it for testing the 2.2 ypserv. (This represents the actual user database on the Columbia student UNIX cluster.) The 2.1.x ypserv should be able to handle this size map as well, though not as fast. > Problems that I have seen in FreeBSD's NIS: > > - ypcat is broken. a 'ypcat passwd' doesn't give me nearly > as many entries as there are in the map > > - yp_mkdb -u gives me slightly better results but some entries > are still missing. > > The only way I have found so far to compare a map and the master.passwd > file is to extract usernames from the master.passwd and ypmatch them all > against the passwd.byname map. I have to do this because sometimes, > some entries will be "forgotten" by the maps building process. This > doesn't happen very often, fortunately. > > Yves Lepage Hm. I'd be interested to know if you could try 2.2 as an NIS server and see what happens. The ypserv in the 2.1.x branch is kinda crufty. It's based on an older version of the Linux ypserv which I cut down and coerced into working on FreeBSD. While it does work, it could use a cleanup and some added features. For one thing, it doesn't cache open DB handles, which makes it somewhat slower than the 2.2 ypserv. There are some cases where yp_mkdb will reject entries from a map source file: it does not permit maps to be created with duplicate keys, and it won't allow entries with keys or data longer than 1024 bytes. This is the yp_mkdb in 2.2 though; I'm not sure why the one from 2.1.x would be dropping records. In case anyone hasn't realized it yet, the NIS server support from the 2.1.x branch is being laid to rest and is being replaced by an all new set of tools in 2.2. The client library has also undergone some changes to (hopefully) improve performance. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 20:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09573 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09566 for hackers; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:14:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:14:20 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199701200414.UAA09566@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: Would like to us a BIT in buf.h Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to get a bit in the buf b_flags lword. however it's full :( If I could get it I would like to call this bit B_UIO. the setting of this bit would indicate to some drivers that the (initially b_driver2 field but eventually b_addr) field points to a UIO struct that details the physical scatter/gather (page) segments of the io requested, rather than a kv mapping of said space. This is a continuation of work I did at TFS when I wrote the SCSI drivers and the BT driver (and aha too I believe) already have support for this. There are times when io is requested, or buffs are being moved around, when there is NO REASON for having the pages mapped.. e.g. for scatter Gather DMA, whay do we map the pages into KVM? (and then extract those same addresses to get the scatter-gather list for the IO.) example: user does raw IO to tape.. Initially the buffer is mapped in user space (hard to avoid this) physio extracts the physical pages. physio maps them to KV space and points a buf at it. driver re-extracts physical addresses again for DMA S/G list. wouldn't it have been easier if the buf struct had just had a UIO/IOVEC attached that remember ed the physical addresses when first extracted? If I can't get a bit then I'd like to change the b_driver2 pointer to be b_uio and suggest that this be used to flag the presence ot the UIO by being non NULL. I plan on making a function call that will map the UIO's physical addresses into KVM fo rthe use of the IDE driver, and other things that require programmed IO. What I'd like ot know from John, David, Peter and the others is whether it would make sence to ALWAYS keep that information with a buf.? would the VM system need to look at the contents of buffers? the only time I see that being needed is when data needs to be copied to user-space, and a "just in time" mapping scheme might work just as well for that... (and a LRU list of KV slots to map them into..) any comments!?? julian (E) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 20:20:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09811 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA09750 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:19:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 139.188.22.50 (139.188.22.50) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.0-5 #11861) id <01IEFVDD69N4000RFP@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:17:49 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au (gsms01.alcatel.com.au) by cbd.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.0-5 #9241) id <01IEFVCTDC4W9QW1PT@cbd.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:17:22 +1100 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10983 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:18:18 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:18:18 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: APM on Toshiba T1850 Laptop To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <199701200418.PAA10983@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to get power management working on a T1850 laptop. The problem is that the APM BIOS Interface isn't in the BIOS, it's is a file `apm.sys' that's loaded by M$-DOS (this makes it fairly useless). Has anyone managed to obtain specs on the T1850 power management hardware, or (better) written some code to get power management working on an 1850? Please reply by E-mail since I don't subscribe to this list at present. Regards, Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 21:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA10978 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from compassion.hotmail.com (compassion.hotmail.com [207.82.250.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA10967 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (http://www.hotmail.com 17151 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jan 1997 05:05:13 -0000 Date: 20 Jan 1997 05:05:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19970120050513.17150.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.86.127.204 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:05:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [202.229.220.222] From: "malarraj malarraj" To: terry@lambert.org Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From terry@lambert.org Fri Jan 17 13:43:46 1997 >Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09078; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:09:30 -0700 >From: Terry Lambert >Message-Id: <199701172109.OAA09078@phaeton.artisoft.com> >Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network >To: smraj@hotmail.com (malarraj malarraj) >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:09:30 -0700 (MST) >Cc: questions@freebsd.org >In-Reply-To: <19970117103226.28999.qmail@hotmail.com> from "malarraj malarraj" at Jan 17, 97 10:32:26 am >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Length: 3115 >> we are having one serious problem when connecting FreeBSD machine >> in an network. We are having IBM Aptiva model 2144-s20 with Microdyne >> ethernet card (I/O address 0x300 & IRQ 5) installed in it. We are having >> Sun server connected in network. We are trying to connect this IBM >> Aptiva with Sun machine.There is no IRQ or I/O conflict. We have checked >> with boot -c option. But we are getting "ifconfig (SIOCGIFFLAGS)" : no >> such interface" while booting. We don't know how to solve this problem. > >Type: > >dmesg | grep -i ether > >If you have an Ethernet card recognized by one of the drivers, you will >get back something like: > >vvv--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >de0 rev 35 int a irq 11 on pci0:6 >de0: DC21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.3 Ethernet address 00:80:48:e8:1b:b1 >^^^--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >^^^ this will be different depending on your ethernet interface > >Type: > >ifconfig -a > >This should list all the configured ethernet interfaces in your >machine, for example: > >vvv--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >lp0: flags=810 mtu 1500 >de0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 >inet 198.0.250.211 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 198.0.250.255 >tun0: flags=10 mtu 1500 >sl0: flags=c010 mtu 552 >lo0: flags=8009 mtu 16384 >inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 >^^^--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >lp0 = parallel port (ignore) >tun0 = tunnel device (ignore) >sl0 = SLIP device (ignore) > >lo0 = loopback (important) >de0 = ethernet card driver from dmesg (important) > >Look in /etc/sysconfig; you will see a section dimilar to this: > >vvv--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ># ># Set to the list of network devices on this host. You must have an ># ifconfig_${network_interface} line for each interface listed here. ># for example: ># >#network_interfaces="ed0 sl0 lo0" >#ifconfig_ed0="inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xffffff00" >#ifconfig_sl0="inet 10.0.1.0 netmask 0xffffff00" ># >network_interfaces="de0 lo0" >ifconfig_lo0="inet localhost" >ifconfig_de0="inet 198.0.250.211 netmask 0xffffff00" >^^^--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Most likely, your "network_interfaces" line is incorrect, and does not >have the right interface name on it. > >If you do not have an ethernet device in dmesg, then either there is not >a driver for your card, or (more likely) your card is not configured >correctly. > >If the card is there, and you list the full dmesg instead of grepping >it, you may find that your card has an interrupt or address range >conflict with some other card, and isn't being probed. You should >reconfigure the card (change jumpers, or run a setup program) and >then try again. > > >Regards, >Terry Lambert >terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. > We have executed dmesg |grep -i ether No output came for this command because,while booting we are getting the following messages for our ethernet card related information.(There is no word "ether") "ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa ed0:address 00:80:29:67:43:ec type NE2000 (16 bit) . . . ifconfig: ioctl (SIOCGIFFLAGS): no such interface ifconfig: ioctl (SIOCGIFFLAGS): no such interface lo0: flags: 8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 writing to routing socket: Network is unreachable add net default: gateway 202.229.220.1: Network is unreachable" While reinstalling FreeBSD 2.1.5 (This is the fourth time we are doing it), in "Networking" and "Interface" option it shows "ed1 WD/SMC 80XX ; NOVELL NE1000/2000 ; 3COM 3C503 cards" as one of the various communication item.We selected this and set the gateway address (202.229.220.1),domain name (tanaka-tec.co.jp), IP address for FreeBSD machine (202.229.220.229) & netmask (255.255.255.0).So we have no doubt that there is a driver available for our card (NE2000 plus from microdyne). After booting we execute ifconfig -a and the output is ed0: flags=8822 mtu 1500 ether 00:80:29:67:43:ec lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 sl0: flags=c010 mtu 552 tun0: flags=8010 mtu 1500 If we execute "ifconfig ed0 202.229.220.229 netmask 255.255.255.0" (because we didn't include it in /etc/rc file) we get "Jan 20 11:16:12 apt /kernal: ed0: device time out" This message is coming three times.apt is the machine name. If we execute "ifconfig -a" once again ed0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 inet 202.229.220.229 netmask 0xffffff00 brodcast 202.229.220.255 ether 00:80:29:67:43:ec all the other lo0,lp0,sl0,tun0 are same. If we ping 202.229.220.229 there is no packet loss. If we ping to any other machine we are getting same "device timeout" error thrice and after that "Host is Down" message is coming. And also at random time it is printing "apt last message repeated 5 times" thrice. We have the feeling that the driver is getting loaded properly. (Because it can be able to read the ethernet address and internal ping is working perfectly) There is no I/O conflicts or IRQ conflicts.We have checked it while booting (boot -c "visual" option shows there is no conflicts) We were trying to find out what is that SIOCGIFFLAGS. It is in /usr/include/sys/sockio.h. This says "get ifnet flags". Can you get some idea about the problem?. We are breaking our heads for the past one week (We have to fix it in two days because of tight project schedule). If you have time please look into this problem also. Thank You Very Much for your immediate respond for our first mail. Sorry for disturbing you once again With Regards, Tanaka Tech Labo Development Group Japan --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 21:50:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA12537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA12532; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id QAA29523; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:19:49 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701200549.QAA29523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network In-Reply-To: <19970120050513.17150.qmail@hotmail.com> from malarraj malarraj at "Jan 20, 97 05:05:13 am" To: smraj@hotmail.com (malarraj malarraj) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:19:48 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk malarraj malarraj stands accused of saying: > > "Jan 20 11:16:12 apt /kernal: ed0: device time out" This should be in the FAQ. This message means that either : - you have cabling problems : - your ethernet is broken - you have selected the wrong port (BNC vs. AUI vs. UTP) on the card - the IRQ setting on the card does not match the kernel's setting. > Tanaka Tech Labo Development Group -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 21:56:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA12891 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:56:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackhole.dimensional.com (root@blackhole.dimensional.com [208.206.176.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA12886 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from warp9.compus.com (p30.pm-3.pm.dimcom.net [208.206.177.94]) by blackhole.dimensional.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23616; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:56:06 -0700 (MST) Posted-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:56:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <32E30915.41C67EA6@compus.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:56:37 -0700 From: Chris Olsen Organization: Me & Myself X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank ten Wolde CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HP4020 Writable CD-ROM failures - help requested References: <9701142229.ZM22710@pwood1.pinewood.nl> <9701161914.ZM29378@pwood1.pinewood.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Frank ten Wolde wrote: > > Hello J"org, > > On Jan 15, 0:46, J Wunsch wrote: > > Subject: Re: HP4020 Writable CD-ROM failures - help requested > > > > As Frank ten Wolde wrote: > > > >> # rtprio 5 team -v 1m 5 < cdrom.image | dd of=/dev/rworm0 obs=20k > >> ...kb read/...kb written > >> Error code is "current errors" > >> Segment number is 00 > >> Sense key is "Unit attention" > >> The Information field is 80000000 (-2147483648). > >> The Command Specific Information field is 00000000 (0). > >> Additional sense code: 28 > >> Additional sense code qualifier: 00 > >> sense (32 of 48): > >> f0 00 06 80 00 00 00 0a 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 > >> 00 00 11 89 95 38 fe ff 00 00 00 00 80 1c 06 f1 > >> > > That must be either one of the recent ahc driver problems (Justin is > > aware of it, and we're waiting for his final actions -- that's the > > main reason 2.2 didn't go out yet). Or, are you pretty sure that your > > > I'm using the 2.2-960612-SNAPSHOT release of FreeBSD. Is this considered > 'recent'? > > > drive isn't overheating? I've got a few reports by now that indicate > > that the HP parts are fairly sensitive against this. (The usual PC > > power-supply fan is certainly insufficient.) > > > Maybe, but it happens every time again (I tried twice :-) and each time > just before the end of data, possibly just before the 'fixate' command. > (First time I wrote appr 300 MB, second time appr 610 MB. Both times > dd reported that *all* bytes had been transferred to the CDR.) > Could it be that you have to pause for a few seconds and let the CDR > flush its buffers before issuing the 'fixate' command? > > Regards, > -Frank > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > F.W. ten Wolde (PA3FMT) Pinewood Automation B.V. > E-mail: franky@pinewood.nl Kluyverweg 2a > Phone: +31-15 2682543 2629 HT Delft Frank, I had the same problem with an HP drive. We ended up getting a new drive from HP and it worked just fine. But I think what realy fixed the problem was upgrading the rom ont the drive. The ROM version is displayed in the probe message. I think the original version we had was 1.25 and the new drive had 1.26. The HP web page has the new rom version & the program to download it. Chris Olsen colsen@compus.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 22:11:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA13505 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA13500 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA17111; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:09:53 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:59:00 MST." <199701192159.OAA14188@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:09:53 -0800 Message-ID: <17107.853740593@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One of my main talents is the ability to see order in apparently > chatotic systems. But further, I see orders of order in these > systems. This is what makes me a good systems engineer. This has also enabled you to pick what was probably the most tediously unreadable method of conveying a series of points that it has been my displeasure to come across so far this year! Congradulations! ;-) > Let's look at the situation, the order of the situation, and the > degree of the order of the situation. A nice physics analogy: "Oh god." > Q = m mass > Q' = m ds/dt momentum > Q'' = 1/2 m (ds/dt)^2 kinetic energy "No! NO!" > I'll limit myself to asking order 0, 1, and 2 questions, and stay out > of the more esoteric heights. "Yeah, RIGHT!" > OBSERVATION: Other OS's have achieved these tasks. "OBSERVATION: NO OS has acheived these tasks without paying a full-time staff, and none of the free OS camps has enough clued-in bodies to do even half the things they'd like (and possibly even need) to do. Terry is peering into alternate universe again due to local field effect of as-yet undetermined nature." > QUESTION: Why is it that the "sufficient clued-in personnel > to do the job" were not lacking in their camps, > but *are* lacking in the FreeBSD camp? "Oh, I see. It's an intellectal exercise. Terry wants us to participate in a little hypothetical scenario with him, perhaps one of those neat mathematical ones where you end up proving that 0 != 0 at the end of it." > QUESTION'': What can be done to the structure of the FreeBSD > camp, itself, to promote the generation and/or > maintenance of increased levels of "sufficient > clued-in personnel to do the job"? "Well now that's not a bad question just taken out of context and set to stand on its own. I'm always open to suggestions given the ongoing nature of this question." > QUESTION: Why has the interest been missing in the FreeBSD camp, but not missing in other camps? "Good question. Anyone in the audience?" [ Next 4 questions elided due to to the fact that they all essentially restate the previous two questions again ] > PROPOSED GOAL: Effect changes as a result of the answer(s) to > the question. California translation: "Awesome. Totally dude. We should, like, do something." > QUESTION: Why is is that the adoption of ELF is categorized > as premature, when it works? Defense lawyer: "Objection!" Judge: "Yes, Mr. Selachii?" Selachii: "The actual statement was ``a premature move to elf'', the context of which makes it quite clear that any assumption of maturity, or lack thereof, refers entirely to the action of movement, or in this case the merging of code, rests entirely with the speed or pace at which this action is carried out and does not, in fact, make any assumptions or claims concerning the actual maturity level of the ELF software itself." Judge: "What!?" > required for the FreeBSD camp to better enable it > to achieve it's stated primary goal of research? I'm not sure that research *is* its primary goal. This is another false premise. Research is one of FreeBSD's goals, but the primary one? No. I'd say if there was a "primary goal" at this point, it would be improve the software and let user feedback drive much of our prioritization of effort. Pure research is only one of the many uses to which FreeBSD is put now, and a consortium of people with many diverse "real world" goals as well as pure research goals constitutes a healthier organism. Since there's little disagreement where it comes to security issues or general improvement of the code base, why not have people from all segments of "the industry" working together? > OBSERVATION: The Linux camp has hardware donated by major vendors > and other interested parties. So have the MACH, > NetBSD, and OpenBSD camps. I have received personal Cool, please pass on these contacts then. I haven't received any such email myself, that's all I can say, and anyone with free hardware they want to give away is MORE than welcome to contact me at any time! They can even call me collect if they have to! :-) > QUESTION: Why is hardware made available to the other camps, > either in the form of corporate sponsorship for > ports, or in the form of people who already have > the hardware available volunteering their effort, > but the same is not true for FreeBSD? Probably because we haven't strongly advertised an interest in other platforms up to now. That's now changing, and we can only hope that the word goes out that the FreeBSD project is now considering support for other platforms more seriously and that this attracts all this nifty corporate sponsorship you're talking about. I've tried very directly to get DEC interested in sponsoring the ALPHA work, but no real reaction yet. > QUESTION': What is it about the structure of the FreeBSD camp, > itself, the abstracted variable, that imposes hidden > conditions above and beyond those implied by the > stated goals themselves? We've been over that. You refuse to acknowlege that making one person change is a lot easier than making 15 of them do so, and you'd prefer to turn the iceberg than the ship. Sorry. > OBSERVATION: A recent discussion with this same subject line > revisited corporate modelling, with the prominant > observation that short term expediency is adverse > to long term success. In point of fact, inclusion Yadda yadda yadda. Go back to business class again and pay special attention to the part where they talk about *small* business models and making different tradeoffs at different times in the company lifecycle, from 2-guys-in-a-garage to multinational corporate empire. I've known more than a few garage companies who were too proud to make any sort of concessions in order to win an initial customer base, and you know what? They're still in their garages, wearing dirty tee-shirts and railing at the industry for failing to recognise their genius! :-) > You can supply your own complexity decomposition examples for the rest. Thanks, but I think I'll pass. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 22:32:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA14245 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.128.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA14221 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:32:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (5.57/ULTRIX-940302) id AA14106; Mon, 20 Jan 97 15:31:34 +0900 Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (5.57/ULTRIX-940909) id AA00399; Mon, 20 Jan 97 15:31:33 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zenith.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.33.60]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id PAA28392; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:35:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199701200635.PAA28392@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Scott Gasch Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: Q: problem with keyboard reset in kernel boot... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:29:53 EST." <199701142229.RAA01678@perl.guru.org> References: <199701142229.RAA01678@perl.guru.org> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:35:09 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I've had the following problem whenever I have tried to install >FreeBSD on a particular (old, strange) machine... The machine is an >old Compaq luggable with a Hauppage 386-16 chip/motherboard. The >problem is that the keyboard is hardwired onto the motherboard and >uses a strange voltage and number of pins... > >When the FBSD bootdisk boots, there is a problem resetting the >keyboard which leaves the keyboard locked up (controller hung?). >In the user config section of the install the keyboard works fine >and it is not until the actual kernel boot that the thing locks up. >The actual message is: "scprobe: keyboard won't accept RESET command" Which version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? Judging from the error message, I guess it must be one of 2.1.X's or 2.2-ALPHA. >I've looked in /usr/src/.../i386/isa/syscons.c at the code around this >message... according to the comment above this section of code the >keyboard controller is supposed to get popped back into line in the >case of a reset error by the insuing function calls. > >I have a few questions: 1) has anyone worked aroudn this before? 2) >what is the purpose of the keyboard reset; could I comment out the >whole darn thing and put a custom kernel on the bootfloppy? 3) does >anyone have any other solutions (besides hard drive swaping)? My first suggestion is to try either 2.2-BETA or 3.0-970118-SNAP. (SNAP is better as far as keyboard access code is concerned.) They use entirely new keyboard I/O routines, and the new routines are expected to work better than the ones which they replace... well, in theory :-) However, if your Compaq luggable has a really unusual keyboard and a keyboard controller, even they may not work though ;-< Commenting keyboard reset code out may or may not work; I really don't know. The purpose of keyboard reset is to detect the keyboard, initialize it and place it in the known state, AFAIU. Kazu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 22:34:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA14361 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis.lonestar.org (fw13-26.ppp.iadfw.net [206.138.226.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA14347 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #22) id m0vmDIS-000ug2C; Mon, 20 Jan 97 00:33 CST Message-Id: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 00:33 CST To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Mon Jan 20 1997, 00:33:31 CST Subject: sup dumping core at end of downloading a set Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have an unusual situation where the FreeBSD port of sup was installed on a DEC Alpha running DEC OSF. With some fiddling around with the Makefile (.if operations don't work and the OSF conditional guarantees a failed build), I got it to compile and it actually downloads files using the FreeBSD cvs-supfile. Sup gets all the way through the first collection and then gets a segmentation fault and dumps core. Restart, it gets to the same point and dies again. Comment out the first collection, start it again and it downloads all of the second collection and then dumps core with the similar message: SUP created directory sup/src-bin for sup/src-bin/when.cvs Segmentation fault (core dumped) The cvs-supfile entries look like: (wrapped for readability) src-bin release=cvs host=sup.FreeBSD.org hostname=/home base=/server/stats/bsdcvs/usr prefix=/server/stats/bsdcvs/home delete old use-rel-suffix /server/stats/bsdcvs/home and /server/stats/bsdcvs/usr exist and are owned by me. The structure was empty when I first invoked sup. There is over 1GB of free disk space. The core file was left in /server/stats/bsdcvs/usr/sup (not where I invoked sup), and it says: dbx version 3.11.10 Type 'help' for help. Core file created by program "sup" signal Segmentation fault at >*[fprintf, 0x3ff800d5ff4] ldq r16, 40(r1) (dbx) tstack Thread 0x3: > 0 fprintf(0xc0080380, 0x140002ca8, 0x1400213a0, 0x11fffdd68, 0x0) [0x3ff800d5ff4] 1 finishone(0x1400213a0, 0x11fffdd68, 0x0, 0x5, 0x12000ee40) [0x12000b7fc] 2 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee3c] 3 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 4 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 5 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 6 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 7 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 8 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 9 Tsubprocess(0x12000b778, 0x11fffdd68, 0x140003a48, 0x0, 0x0) [0x12000ee24] 10 Tsubprocess(0x140003918, 0x3ffc0080380, 0x140001980, 0x140004068, 0x140006b10) [0x12000ee24] 11 Tprocess(0x140001980, 0x140004068, 0x140006b10, 0x140002c90, 0x12000b6c8) [0x12000ef64] 12 finishup(0x1200092e8, 0x1400039d0, 0x1200077f0, 0x140007280, 0x14000d460) [0x12000b6c4] 13 getcoll(0x0, 0xffffffff00000000, 0x0, 0x2, 0x2a30) [0x120007834] 14 main(0x0, 0x1, 0x120004e80, 0x140017020, 0x140010010) [0x1200050c4] (dbx) printregs $vfp= 4831828752 $r0_v0=1 $r1_t0=3221750656 $r2_t1=19922945 $r3_t2=4831828704 $r4_t3=8 $r5_t4=16 $r6_t5=5 $r7_t6=0 $r8_t7=844424930131968 $r9_s0=5368846336 $r10_s1=4831885176 $r11_s2=4831829352 $r12_s3=5368724040 $r13_s4=0 $r14_s5=0 $r15_s6=4710 $r16_a0=3221750656 $r17_a1=5368720552 $r18_a2=5368845216 $r19_a3=4831829352 $r20_a4=0 $r21_a5=5 $r22_t8=19922944 $r23_t9=1048576 $r24_t10=8 $r25_t11=0 $r26_ra=4831885312 $r27_t12=4395899903896 $r28_at=0 $r29_gp=4396973371824 $r30_sp=4831828608 $r31_zero=0 $f0= Denormalized number 0x332c0 $f1= 20960.0 $f2= 0.0 $f3= 0.0 $f4= 0.0 $f5= 0.0 $f6= 0.0 $f7= 0.0 $f8= 0.0 $f9= 0.0 $f10= 0.24834578525933099 $f11= 2.0 $f12= 0.10000000000000001 $f13= 2.0 $f14= Denormalized number 0x1018 $f15= 0.14297193020246479 $f16= INF 0x0000 $f17= Denormalized number 0x51e0 $f18= 0.0 $f19= 1.0 $f20= 0.0 $f21= 0.0 $f22= 0.0 $f23= 0.0 $f24= 0.0 $f25= 0.0 $f26= 0.0 $f27= 0.0 $f28= 0.0 $f29= 0.0 $f30= 0.0 $f31= 0.0 $pc= 4395899903988 $ps= 8 $fpcr=9871890383196127232 (dbx) quit I tried to build cvsup to see if it would work any better, but cvsup won't even build on FreeBSD 2.1.5, much less on OSF. The port expects something called m3build to be on your system, which is NOT the case on a FreeBSD 2.1.5 system installed with the Developer option. Nor is there a word in the port files saying what m3build might be. I consider this a bug in the port. There are other ports that depend on yet-other ports and have the manners to get the pieces they need, or at least have a README or something to tell you that you need this or that. Despite that, I believe this might be some Modula-3 thing, but these additional requirements make it even less likely that I can get cvsup running under OSF. (Attempting to build the Modula-3 port on FreeBSD fails because the Modula-3-lib isn't already present. How far does this go on?) So, I would like to stick with sup for this exercise. Does anyone have any ideas as to why sup would roll over the way it does? I currently don't have the option to run this program under FreeBSD and the OSF system has the disk space. Thanks for any suggestions. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" |"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 22:35:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA14439 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA14433 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA17208; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:35:19 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Hannon cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Hannon, Mark (seeware)" , support@xinside.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:21:58 PST." <32E39BA6.2BDA@epa.ericsson.se> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:35:18 -0800 Message-ID: <17204.853742118@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been having a less than successfull time getting the X-inside > CDE product working. > installation. X11R6 & local X-clients & Swim-Motif 2.0 are > installed as /usr/local/X11R6. I wouldn't be surprised if the wide range of /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local pollution on this machine (Swim being the primary candidate) were causing interoperability problems. Since Swim is 2.0 and CDE uses Motif 1.1, any mixup with the shared libraries would be very bad indeed. To test this theory, I'd simply reinstall my XFree86 distribution onto a clean /usr/X11R6 then add CDE on top of this and then either reboot or run ldconfig by hand to rebuild my LD cache (very important!). See if problems persist. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 22:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA15021 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA15016 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA08510; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:53:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701200653.WAA08510@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup dumping core at end of downloading a set Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:53:14 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 97 00:33 CST uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) wrote: > Sup gets all the way through the first collection and then > gets a segmentation fault and dumps core. Restart, it gets You may want to grab NetBSD's sup; it's 64-bit safe. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:23:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA16275 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:23:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA16270 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmE4j-0001TI-00; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:23:25 -0700 To: Rohan Shivkumar Subject: Re: Anybody have user level TCP? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:44:06 EST." <199701200244.VAA02907@espresso.eng.umd.edu> References: <199701200244.VAA02907@espresso.eng.umd.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:23:24 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199701200244.VAA02907@espresso.eng.umd.edu> Rohan Shivkumar writes: : I was wondering if people on this list knew of a User level Implementations : of TCP for FreeBSD/NetBSD/BSDI/Linux. If so, I would appreciate any pointers : you could send me. I know of two that run on those systems. The first is commertial called TIA. The second is freeware called SLuRP (or is that SLiRP). They both are fairly good, with a slight nod going toward SLiRP for being true BSD 4.4 Lite-2 kernel TCP/IP in userland. Both also offer NAT support because you had to do that in the SLIP/PPP emulation game because some protocols (ftp, talk, irc, etc) are not firewall friendly. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:27:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA16463 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from compassion.hotmail.com (compassion.hotmail.com [207.82.250.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA16454 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (http://www.hotmail.com 19933 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jan 1997 07:27:32 -0000 Date: 20 Jan 1997 07:27:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19970120072732.19932.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.86.127.204 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:27:32 PST X-Originating-IP: [202.229.220.224] From: "malarraj malarraj" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, terry@lambert.org, rminnich@sarnoff.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Mike Smith, Thank you very much. Yes you have solved that problem.That problem was due to as you told "The IRQ setting on the card does not match the Kernal's setting" We have changed it. Now it is working perfectly. Our one week struggle have come to an end with the help of your diagnostic power. As a group we would like to thank you once again. We will need your valuable help in the near future also. Thank You.Thank you to every one who have helped us in solving this problem. With Warm Regards, Tanaka Tech Labo Development Group Japan --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:37:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA16980 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA16975 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA00440; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:07:13 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701200737.SAA00440@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: sup dumping core at end of downloading a set In-Reply-To: from Frank Durda IV at "Jan 20, 97 00:33:00 am" To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:07:12 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Frank Durda IV stands accused of saying: > The core file was left in /server/stats/bsdcvs/usr/sup (not where > I invoked sup), and it says: > > dbx version 3.11.10 > Type 'help' for help. > Core file created by program "sup" > > signal Segmentation fault at >*[fprintf, 0x3ff800d5ff4] ldq r16, 40(r1) > (dbx) tstack > Thread 0x3: > > 0 fprintf(0xc0080380, 0x140002ca8, 0x1400213a0, 0x11fffdd68, 0x0) [0x3ff800d5ff4] > 1 finishone(0x1400213a0, 0x11fffdd68, 0x0, 0x5, 0x12000ee40) [0x12000b7fc] finishone (t,finishfile) TREE *t; FILE **finishfile; { if ((thisC->Cflags&CFDELETE) == 0 || (t->Tflags&FUPDATE)) if(t->Tflags&FRENAME) fprintf(*finishfile,"%s %s\n",t->Tname,t->Tnewname); else fprintf (*finishfile,"%s\n",t->Tname); return (SCMOK); } (no idea where the extra 3 args to finishfile() come from. dbx looks like a very inferior debugger 8( ) Still the args to fprintf look fine; it would be handy to know whether the strings it's getting are properly terminated, and still valid, but I would expect that they are. > (dbx) printregs > > $vfp= 4831828752 $r0_v0=1 > $r1_t0=3221750656 $r2_t1=19922945 It looks like (*finishfile) is in r1, and it's looking up something in the FILE structure. The offsets and alignment look OK, and I can't see how (*finishfile) could have been closed (but that's worth checking)... > I tried to build cvsup to see if it would work any better, but cvsup won't > even build on FreeBSD 2.1.5, much less on OSF. The port expects something > called m3build to be on your system, which is NOT the case on a FreeBSD > 2.1.5 system installed with the Developer option. Nor is there a word > in the port files saying what m3build might be. I consider this a bug > in the port. There are other ports that depend on yet-other ports and have > the manners to get the pieces they need, or at least have a README > or something to tell you that you need this or that. The cvsup port clearly depends on the Modula-3 port : BUILD_DEPENDS= m3build-4:${PORTSDIR}/lang/modula-3 LIB_DEPENDS= m3\\.4\\.:${PORTSDIR}/lang/modula-3-lib > Despite that, I believe this might be some Modula-3 thing, but these > additional requirements make it even less likely that I can get cvsup > running under OSF. (Attempting to build the Modula-3 port on FreeBSD > fails because the Modula-3-lib isn't already present. How far does > this go on?) Likewise, the modula-3 port clearly depends on the modula-3-lib port : DEPENDS= ${PORTSDIR}/lang/modula-3-lib ...which contains (in the Makefile) substantial discourse on the Modula-3 bootstrapping process. Modula-3 is also a DEC project, and M3 binaries are probably available for OSF. > So, I would like to stick with sup for this exercise. Does anyone have > any ideas as to why sup would roll over the way it does? I currently > don't have the option to run this program under FreeBSD and the OSF > system has the disk space. Unfortunately, I don't. > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" > |"A what?" > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > > -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:40:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA17088 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA17041 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA17584; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:39:43 -0800 (PST) To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup dumping core at end of downloading a set In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:33:00 CST." Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:39:42 -0800 Message-ID: <17580.853745982@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have an unusual situation where the FreeBSD port of sup was installed > on a DEC Alpha running DEC OSF. With some fiddling around with the > Makefile (.if operations don't work and the OSF conditional Don't sweat it, I'll port cvsup (and the M3 environment as necessary, though I think this has already largely been done at DEC) to DEC/OSF as I'm about to load it (4.0b) on one of my machines in about 4 hours here. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:56:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA17683 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dawn.ww.net (root@dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA17663 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.7.5/alexis 2.5) id KAA27723 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:55:22 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199701200755.KAA27723@dawn.ww.net> Subject: hopefully known 2.1.6 spins To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:55:21 +0300 (MSK) From: Alexis Yushin Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-RIPE-Handle: AY6-RIPE X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Salut, /sys/i386/config/LIGHTNING: >machine "i386" >cpu "I486_CPU" >cpu "I586_CPU" # aka Pentium(tm) > >ident LIGHTNING > >maxusers 16 > >config kernel root on wd0 > >options "AUTO_EOI_1" >options "COMPAT_43" >options BOUNCE_BUFFERS >options COMCONSOLE #prefer serial console to video console >options "CONADDR=0x2F8" >options "CONUNIT=1" >options DUMMY_NOPS >options GATEWAY #internetwork gateway >options INET #Internet communications protocols >options MROUTING # Multicast routing >options PROBE_VERBOSE >options USERCONFIG >options IPFIREWALL #firewall >options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about >#options HARDFONTS >#options UCONSOLE >#options "MAXCONS=4" > >options FFS #Fast filesystem >options NFS #Network File System >options MFS #Memory File System >options PROCFS #Process filesystem > >pseudo-device ether #Generic Ethernet >pseudo-device loop #Network loopback device >pseudo-device sl 8 #Serial Line IP >pseudo-device bpfilter 2 #Berkeley packet filter >pseudo-device disc #Discard device > > >pseudo-device pty 8 #Pseudo ttys - can go as high as 256 >pseudo-device log #Kernel syslog interface (/dev/klog) > >controller pci0 >controller isa0 > >#device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr >device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr > >controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff vector wdintr >disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 > >controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr >disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 > >device lpt0 at isa? port "IO_LPT1" tty irq 7 vector lptintr > >device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr >device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr > >device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr >device dgb0 at isa? port 0x320 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz ? tty dmesg: >FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE #1: Tue Jan 14 12:32:48 MSK 1997 > alexis@lightning.ww.net:/home/src/FreeBSD-2.1.6/src/sys/compile/LIGHTNING >CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) > Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x4f4 >real memory = 12582912 (12288K bytes) >avail memory = 10919936 (10664K bytes) >Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: >chip0 rev 2 on pci0:5 >Probing for devices on the ISA bus: >lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa >lpt0: Interrupt-driven port >lp0: TCP/IP capable interface >sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa >sio0: type 16550A >sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa >sio1: type 16550A >dgb0: PC/Xe 64/8K (windowed) >dgb0 at 0x320-0x323 maddr 0xd0000 msize 8192 on isa >dgb0: 8 ports >wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa >wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-32 >wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S >fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa >1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 >ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa >ep0: aui/bnc[*BNC*] address 00:20:af:15:52:c4 >npx0 on motherboard >npx0: INT 16 interface >IP firewall initialized, unlimited logging >WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. /var/log/messages: >Jan 18 03:35:00 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 18 03:40:00 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 18 03:45:01 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 18 03:55:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 18 04:05:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 18 04:15:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 18 04:25:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 18 04:35:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 18 04:45:01 lightning last message repeated 2 times So, here, it went into spin mode, I've seen before but have not found why it happens. It happens only at ip routers and probably something routing dependent. All process stop but it still does all in-kernel ip tasks like accepts connections (but with nothing happening after that) and responses to ping requests. Of course, as routing daemons are dead no routing is performed. There is no NFS on that machine. >Jan 20 09:01:23 lightning /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE #1: Tue Jan 14 12:32:48 MSK 1997 >Jan 20 09:01:23 lightning /kernel: alexis@lightning.ww.net:/home/src/FreeBSD-2.1.6/src/sys/compile/LIGHTNING >Jan 20 09:01:23 lightning /kernel: CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) >Jan 20 09:01:23 lightning /kernel: Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x4f4 >Jan 20 09:01:23 lightning /kernel: real memory = 12582912 (12288K bytes) >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: avail memory = 10919936 (10664K bytes) >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:5 >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: sio0: type 16550A >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: sio1: type 16550A >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: dgb0: PC/Xe 64/8K (windowed) >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: dgb0 at 0x320-0x323 maddr 0xd0000 msize 8192 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: dgb0: 8 ports >Jan 20 09:01:24 lightning /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-32 >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: ep0: aui/bnc[*BNC*] address 00:20:af:15:52:c4 >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: npx0 on motherboard >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: IP firewall initialized, unlimited logging >Jan 20 09:01:25 lightning /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. >Jan 20 09:02:10 lightning telnetd[147]: connect from Simferopol2.ww.net >Jan 20 09:02:40 lightning login: login from Simferopol2 as alexis >Jan 20 09:03:46 lightning doas: alexis as root on ttyp0: /usr/local/bin/tcsh >Jan 20 09:05:01 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 20 09:10:00 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 20 09:15:00 lightning gdc: performing a "gdc running" command for user root >Jan 20 09:25:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 09:35:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 09:45:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 09:55:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 10:05:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 10:15:01 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 10:25:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 10:35:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times >Jan 20 10:45:00 lightning last message repeated 2 times The question is that whether it is well known problem with a trivial fix so I would not waste my time investigating? Sorry for the long message. alexis -- Catch your dreams before they slip away From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 19 23:59:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA17827 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA17813 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id SAA26424 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:59:19 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199701200759.SAA26424@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <17107.853740593@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 19, 97 10:09:53 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:52:26 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.oorg X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll only bite at one .. moving slightly back to the original thread .. Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > QUESTION: Why has the interest been missing in the FreeBSD > camp, but not missing in other camps? > "Good question. Anyone in the audience?" A lot of hype, near hysteria sometimes, resulting in factional outbursts of near violent proportions (cf. "Linux or FreeBSD" in several newsgroups). The resultant multitudes of "worker ants" all running in different directions do, in fact, achieve an enormous amount - much to their credit. However, the cost of this business model is such that I would not and could not base my own business on it .. potentially, a longer term instability of the code base yielding longer time-frames to "essential" functional and operational (esp. security) fixes in mission-critical machinery. Whilst it is appropriate to express a degree of impatience in order to raise discussion to a level sufficient to cause priority reassessment (we all need a "kick" occasionally), moving to a business model more like that of the (apparently) disorganised ants is not where I (we?) want to be - no matter how big an ant-hill they've been able to build through good luck, design or a tenuous mix of both. Admittedly, my (personal and business) goals are different .. I _need_ stability over all else - that's what my customers pay me for. FreeBSD has, to date, delivered this. It is for this reason that I see FreeBSD as more appropriate to traditionally conservative markets .. yes, commercial .. and ones which move more slowly. I see it as a viable and usable alternative to "name" products which have long stagnated in their corporate bureacracy (ISC, SCO). This is not to say that I've now got blinkers on and follow FreeBSD single-mindedly. There are certainly attributes of some other systems which I'd like to see in FreeBSD but I'm happy to stay where I am for the present. Another aspect which people don't seem to realise is that most organisations don't often yell which flavour of server they're using from the roof-tops. There are many possible reasons for this .. in my experience, however it's mostly because they simply don't care so long as the box does what it was put there to do. By way of example, I know of these (local) organisations using FreeBSD: Telstra - our equivalent to MCI or Sprint NSW Legal Aid Commission Association of Childrens Welfare Agencies Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust Sydney International Aquatic Centre Sydney International Athletic Centre All above are govt, semi-govt or govt-funded organisations with which I've had varying degrees of involvement. Shortly, I'll have a FreeBSD web-server prominently wearing the IBM logo for one of their special projects (niche market - more commonwealth govt stuff). These guys don't have any motivation to jump up and down to say what they're using. It wouldn't serve any purpose .. the majority (with the possible exception of that last) neither sell nor support that kind of technology. The perception that people aren't using it because they're not spouting how good it is in the paper, magazines or newsgroups isn't because it isn't any good but simply because they don't care so long as it works for them. The only thing that needs fixing (from the PR side) is for for somone to sit down and write to a magazine how and why FreeBSD does work in these people. Then, maybe, funding will follow, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 01:01:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA20139 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from wgold.demon.co.uk (wgold.demon.co.uk [158.152.96.124]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA20134 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by wgold.demon.co.uk (NTMail 3.01.03) id fa001071; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:14:39 +0000 Message-ID: <32DFCF9F.44B3@wgold.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:14:39 +0000 From: James Mansion Organization: Westongold Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pthreads Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Westongold Ltd: +44 1992 620025 www.westongold.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a (stable-ish, as good as current Linux 2.0.x say) version of FreeBSD that has pthread support? (I'd like to stick it onto a box I can multi-boot with UnixWare and Linux, with System Commander playing boot-cop. I only have 1 gig to play with but more available from NFS - and UW will grab half of it. Is the minimum install small?) James From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 01:25:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA21202 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA21197 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:25:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA09002 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA22940 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:21:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id KAA16251 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:19:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:19:52 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701200919.KAA16251@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: wd0 interrupt timeouts Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On one machine here I'm getting wd0: interrupt timeout: wd0: status 58 error 0 .... wd0: interrupt timeout: wd0: status 58 error 1 It's a P5/166 IDE FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A #0: Mon Jan 13 14:48:45 1997 root@miles.physik.rwth-aachen.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/MILES Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i586 clock: 132612249 Hz, i 8254 clock: 1193010 Hz CPU: Pentium (132.63-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30547968 (29832K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 2 on pci0:7:1 vga0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:11 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa ed0: address 00:40:95:24:d5:9b, type NE2000 (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: device ID 0, 3 buttons? fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1549MB (3173184 sectors), 3148 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface It occured when I was installing (pkg_add) xemacs-19.14 while the packages directory was NFS mounted into /mnt and I was sitting in /mnt/All issueing the command pkg_add xemacs-19.14.tgz, which completed with errors, BTW - don't know if the fact that I had these wed0 timeouts correlates with these errors. I doubt. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 01:52:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA22044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (seeuucp@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA22033 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au with UUCP id UAA08500; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:52:06 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: melbourne.DIALix.oz.au: seeuucp set sender to mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au using -f Received: from putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au [10.0.0.1]) by doorway.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05886; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:34:17 +1100 (EST) From: Mark Hannon Received: (from mark@localhost) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00257; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:32:55 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:32:55 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701200932.UAA00257@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> To: kimc@w8hd.org, jfieber@indiana.edu Subject: X-inside memory footprint Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: RpEDfArfy+xZcNBsFydcyg== Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd also be interested to know how much memory (vss and typical > rss) the window manager, session manager, file manager and > friends sucks up. On a 32 megabyte 100MHz Pentium box, would > there be anything left to actually run anything without > thrashing? > >From my system, running netscape, dtmail, dtfile, dtterm etc... load averages: 0.57, 0.34, 0.18 20:31:34 38 processes: 1 running, 35 sleeping, 2 zombie Cpu states: % user, % nice, % system, % interrupt, % idle Mem: 18M Active, 5652K Inact, 3388K Wired, 2244K Cache, 3454K Buf, 660K Free Swap: 102M Total, 11M Used, 92M Free, 11% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 158 root 2 0 3892K 7140K select 0:14 2.25% 2.25% Xaccel 216 mark 2 0 1836K 4228K select 0:04 0.19% 0.19% dtmail 219 mark 18 0 632K 352K pause 0:00 1.56% 0.08% tcsh 208 mark 2 0 1476K 3240K select 0:05 0.04% 0.04% dtwm 210 mark 2 0 564K 1744K select 0:01 0.04% 0.04% dtterm 254 mark 41 0 396K 760K RUN 0:00 0.00% 0.00% top-2.1.5-RELE 99 root 18 0 268K 124K pause 0:00 0.00% 0.00% cron 196 mark 18 0 584K 0K pause 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 21 root 18 0 216K 0K pause 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 1 root 10 0 364K 68K wait 0:00 0.00% 0.00% init 180 mark 10 0 616K 0K wait 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 168 root 10 0 360K 0K wait 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 88 root 10 0 224K 0K nfsidl 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 85 root 10 0 224K 0K nfsidl 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 86 root 10 0 224K 0K nfsidl 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 87 root 10 0 224K 0K nfsidl 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 220 mark 4 0 408K 0K ttywri 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 156 root 3 0 156K 0K ttyin 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 155 root 3 0 156K 0K ttyin 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 209 mark 2 0 1664K 3964K select 0:02 0.00% 0.00% dtfile Regards/Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 02:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA23126 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ui-gate.utell.co.uk (ui-gate.utell.co.uk [194.200.4.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA23099 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by ui-gate.utell.co.uk (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA07227; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:14:37 GMT From: Bourne-again Superuser Message-Id: <199701201014.KAA07227@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> Subject: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/netstart To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:14:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk Reply-To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Has anyone got any objections to the following lines in /etc/netstart ? # Set up all he network interfaces, calling startup scripts if needed for ifn in ${network_interfaces}; do if [ -e /etc/start_if.${ifn} ]; then . /etc/start_if.${ifn} ${ifn} fi eval ifconfig_args=\$ifconfig_${ifn} ifconfig ${ifn} ${ifconfig_args} eval aliases=\$alias_${ifn} if [ -n "$aliases" ]; then for alias in $aliases; do ifconfig ${ifn} inet $alias netmask 0xffffffff alias done fi ifconfig ${ifn} done Cheers, Brian , Don't __EVER__ lose your sense of humour ! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 02:37:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA23727 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from impsat.net.co (65.17.31.200.in-addr.arpa [200.31.17.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA23721; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from shibumi by impsat.net.co (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id FAA10523; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:36:43 +0500 Received: by shibumi with Microsoft Mail id <01BC0693.C587C5E0@shibumi>; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:35:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01BC0693.C587C5E0@shibumi> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lucas_Adri=E1n_G=F3mez_Bland=F3n?= To: "'hacker@freebsd.org'" , "'Hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'hakers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Know about you!!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:35:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id CAA23723 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear sirs. I'm very interested in know about your project, you will tell me, how i can subscribe to the e-mail list???, please, sedme info about this. I need information about remove a log from the system, i can add a log with "adduser" but, how i can delete this???. Thanks for your info. P.S. Excuse my bad english. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 03:27:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA25158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 03:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip65-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA25152; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 03:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA20525; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:23:29 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199701201123.GAA20525@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Would like to us a BIT in buf.h In-Reply-To: <199701200414.UAA09566@freefall.freebsd.org> from Julian Elischer at "Jan 19, 97 08:14:20 pm" To: julian@freefall.freebsd.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:23:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to get a bit in the buf b_flags lword. > > however it's full :( > > If I could get it I would like to call this bit B_UIO. > > the setting of this bit would indicate to some drivers > that the (initially b_driver2 field but eventually b_addr) field > points to a UIO struct that details the physical > scatter/gather (page) segments of the io requested, rather than > a kv mapping of said space. Isn't this a bus mapping issue? Based on the device being talked to you have a different bus resource you have to set up in physio. You could be allocating mapping registers, or setting up bounce buffers, etc., and you can't have a bit for each flavor. You also have to free this resource when done. I don't see why anyone outside of bus setup / driver entry / bus free should poke around in the raw transfers buffers. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 04:26:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA27207 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA27202 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA22516; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:26:25 -0800 (PST) To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/netstart In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:14:37 GMT." <199701201014.KAA07227@ui-gate.utell.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:26:25 -0800 Message-ID: <22512.853763185@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone got any objections to the following lines in /etc/netstart ? Yes, the functionality is already implemented. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 04:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA28212 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:49:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sundial.sundial.net (root@sundial.sundial.net [204.181.150.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA28207 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pbsj.com (pbsj.com [204.181.150.140]) by sundial.sundial.net (8.8.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA05532 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ORLANDO-Message_Server by pbsj.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:48:29 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:57:22 -0500 From: Frank Hahnel To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe hackers From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 04:53:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA28501 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from elbe.desy.de (elbe.desy.de [131.169.82.208]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id EAA28491 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:53:13 -0800 (PST) From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 13:31:10 +0100 Message-Id: <9701201231.AA17846@elbe.desy.de> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, epamha@epa.ericsson.se Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I've been having a less than successfull time getting the X-inside >> CDE product working. > >> installation. X11R6 & local X-clients & Swim-Motif 2.0 are >> installed as /usr/local/X11R6. > > I wouldn't be surprised if the wide range of /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local > pollution on this machine (Swim being the primary candidate) were > causing interoperability problems. Since Swim is 2.0 and CDE uses > Motif 1.1, any mixup with the shared libraries would be very bad > indeed. No, these problems are definitly pollution ( == Motif :) independent, I (never use complex softlink constructions and) tried what you suggested: > To test this theory, I'd simply reinstall my XFree86 distribution onto > a clean /usr/X11R6 then add CDE on top of this and then either reboot > or run ldconfig by hand to rebuild my LD cache (very important!). > See if problems persist. I had to reinstall CDE several times until it decided to work. I have no clue why it didn't before. Some programs, e.g. xemacs or xfig, had to be rebuilt in order not to segfault. Motif 2.0 of course needs to be reinstalled after installing CDE since the 2.0 binaries and header files are replaced by the older versions supplied with CDE. It's a hard way to get happy, particularly with with CDE... Lars From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 06:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA04773 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.xtalwind.net (slipper11a.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.71]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA04757 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.xtalwind.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA05407; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:52:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:52:05 -0500 (EST) From: jack X-Sender: jack@localhost To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeouts In-Reply-To: <199701200919.KAA16251@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > On one machine here I'm getting > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > wd0: status 58 error 0 > ... > wd0: interrupt timeout: > wd0: status 58 error 1 > > It's a P5/166 IDE Would this happen to be a Tyan motherboard? I had the same thing on a Tomcat II until I grabbed a 'beta' BIOS flash from Tyan's web site. Hasn't happened since. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html #include for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 06:59:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA05018 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA05011 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA00209; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:01:54 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id QAA20154; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:00:38 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701201500.QAA20154@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeouts In-Reply-To: from jack at "Jan 20, 97 09:52:05 am" To: jack@diamond.xtalwind.net (jack) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:00:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > On one machine here I'm getting > > > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > > wd0: status 58 error 0 > > ... > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > > wd0: status 58 error 1 > > > > It's a P5/166 IDE I was lying, it was a 133MHz (dmesg reveiled that :) > > Would this happen to be a Tyan motherboard? I had the same thing on a > Tomcat II until I grabbed a 'beta' BIOS flash from Tyan's web site. > Hasn't happened since. Thanks. I don't know what MB at the moment but will try to find out. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or > jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html > #include for my PGP key. > PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 08:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA09541 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA09534 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA03591; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:20:05 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16411; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id JAA01866; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:10:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:10:17 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701201410.JAA01866@lakes.water.net> To: nick@eunet.ie, ponds!ponds!rivers Subject: Re: kern/2516: Filesystem trouble in 2.2-BETA_A Cc: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Well - I'd have to say that this is exactly the type of > > panic I have experienced with 2.1.0, 2.1.5 and 2.1.5-STABLE. > > Really? I've never seen in before in either 2.1.0 or 2.1.5 Oh yes - I've been trying to determine what the problem is for over a year now... > > > Interestingly enough, my recently installed 2.1.6.1 hasn't (yet) > > experienced it. > > > > I've been trying to determine a consistent reproduction; if you > > can accomplish this - I'm sure it would go a long way toward > > fixing this problem. > > As I say, it just happened once. I don't know whether this is going to > happen again in a hurry -- 2.2-BETA hasn't been on the machine for terribly > long. To add more to this; I _still_ haven't experienced the panic's on my 2.1.6.1 machine (which was panic'ing daily under 2.1.5-STABLE.) I think the problem has to do with a bad FFS inode table - perhaps if the disk goes bad, or there's some other problem, this corrupt table can work it's way in there and not be corrected by fsck(1). It's just another thought I had. - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 08:38:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA10535 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA10510 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:38:33 -0800 (PST) From: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14211; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:38:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01958; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:40:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:40:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701201640.LAA01958@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> X-Mailer: slnr v.2.13 as ported to FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In Email, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Selachii: "The actual statement was ``a premature move to elf'', the > context of which makes it quite clear that any assumption of > maturity, or lack thereof, refers entirely to the action of > movement, or in this case the merging of code, rests entirely > with the speed or pace at which this action is carried out > and does not, in fact, make any assumptions or claims > concerning the actual maturity level of the ELF software > itself." Shouldn't "rests" be changed to "resting" to make this a comprehendable and grammatically correct sentence? -- tIM...HOEk "The approach is in error; it is bad engineering methodology." - Terry Lambert. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 08:55:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA11302 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from maeve.physics.utoronto.ca (maeve.physics.utoronto.ca [128.100.78.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA11296 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pnadeau@localhost) by maeve.physics.utoronto.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA26656 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:17:14 GMT From: Patrick Nadeau Message-Id: <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: IBM Token ring driver To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:17:14 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to volunteer to write an IBM Token ring driver. I work in a Token ring shop so I find myself having to route everything through a Linux box to reach the corporate network :-( I can't say how much time it will take to write it though. If you have any timeline you were thinking of you can let me know. Some changes will have to be made to the arp code since it now is hard coded to ethernet also. I have the driver probing and attaching the card right now which was easy. The hard part was getting technical info from IBM! After two weeks of calling for a few hours each day and after talking to more than 100 different people I got the line that the information was ``IBM confidential'' and that I would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement! I managed to find the information a month later by total fluke and the most ironic thing is that it is _not_ confidential. I think there should be a law making it illegal to ship hardware without technical documentation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 09:13:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA12460 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gluon.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (gluon.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.160.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA12452 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from roberte@localhost) by gluon.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA18970; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:12:06 +0100 From: Robert Eckardt Message-Id: <199701201712.SAA18970@gluon.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeouts In-Reply-To: <199701201500.QAA20154@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "20. Jan. 97 16:00:21" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:12:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: jack@diamond.xtalwind.net, kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > > > On one machine here I'm getting > > > > > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > > > wd0: status 58 error 0 > > > ... > > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > > > wd0: status 58 error 1 I got the same messages with an old 486 ISA board for about 2 months. The system would hang for about 10 s and then continue to work. Short after Christmas this disk died and I got MEDIUM ERRORS (hard read and write errors). The disk is _being_replaced_ now. (Seems the internal error correction finally ceased working.) (BTW, *one* bad sector made 64 files in different directories inaccessible -- anyone knows which structure causes this ?) > > Would this happen to be a Tyan motherboard? I had the same thing on a > > Tomcat II until I grabbed a 'beta' BIOS flash from Tyan's web site. > > Hasn't happened since. > > Thanks. I don't know what MB at the moment but will try to find out. [..] > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de Robert -- Robert Eckardt ( Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Inst.f.Theor.Physik, NB6/169 ) Universitaetsstrasse 150, D-44780 Bochum, Germany ----X---8---- Telefon: +49 234 700-3709, Telefax: +49 234 7094-574 8 E-Mail: RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de --------8---- URL: http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte >>> To be successful one needs friends, <<< >>> To be very successful one needs enemies. <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 09:32:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA13243 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain-work.iafrica.com (khetan@chain-work.iafrica.com [196.31.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA13207 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by chain-work.iafrica.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA03081; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:31:02 +0200 (SAT) X-Authentication-Warning: chain-work.iafrica.com: khetan owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:31:02 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? Message-ID: X-Alternate-Address: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-PGP-Fingerprint: FF F9 1C B8 39 06 1E CD 60 4C E8 57 2D A3 46 E7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I've noticed a oddity on some FreeBSD 2.2 and 3.0-current machines. If I finger a user on a public host of ours, I just get the hostname in square brackets i.e. [servername.somewhere.org] and nothing else. If I try it from a Solaris box or a Linux box on the same network, with nothing more (or less) special on the public machine's hosts.allow, it displays the relevant information. Any ideas ? --- Khetan Gajjar [ http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan] I'm a FreeBSD User! [ http://www.freebsd.org ] PGP Key [finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com] UUNet Internet Africa [0800-030-002 & help@iafrica.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 09:44:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA13868 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA13863 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA04597 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:47:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id SAA20804 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:45:54 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:45:54 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701201745.SAA20804@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: timeval in if.h Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm experimenting with NAT on a relatively -current 3.0 FreeBSD box and in the course of compiling of ip_fil3.1.4 I see that every file that includes requires that to be included before. While this additional inclusion of isn't - besides of tedious re-editing the ip_fil3.1.4 source - a big issue, I wonder why only FreeBSD seems to require this measure - ip_fil3.1.4 seems to be very bsdish. I also don't know what the policy of nested includes is - whether they should be avoided like the pest or if for example and inclusion of in if.h would be the better strategy than to make sources that compile on so many BSD platforms without a hitch have to have an additional __FreeBSD__ conditional just because of this circumstance. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:09:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA15292 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA15287 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA15603; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:52:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:52:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17107.853740593@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 19, 97 10:09:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One of my main talents is the ability to see order in apparently > > chatotic systems. But further, I see orders of order in these > > systems. This is what makes me a good systems engineer. > > This has also enabled you to pick what was probably the most tediously > unreadable method of conveying a series of points that it has been my > displeasure to come across so far this year! Congradulations! ;-) I admit that following pattern-flow logic requires the ability to follow patern-flow logic. If you've got it, you've got it; if you haven't, it's "tediously unreadable". Like Clifford Algebras or Chebyenchev Polynomials. > > OBSERVATION: Other OS's have achieved these tasks. > > "OBSERVATION: NO OS has acheived these tasks without paying a > full-time staff, and none of the free OS camps has enough clued-in > bodies to do even half the things they'd like (and possibly even need) > to do. Terry is peering into alternate universe again due to local > field effect of as-yet undetermined nature." 1) Linux has ELF. 2) FreeBSD does not. 3) ELF is desirable 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. 1) Linux has a large number of willing bodies 2) FreeBSD complains of a dearth of bodies. 3) Allocation of bodies to the projects is based on the interaction of the social organism with the larger society. 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. > California translation: "Awesome. Totally dude. We should, like, do > something." > > > QUESTION: Why is is that the adoption of ELF is categorized > > as premature, when it works? > > Defense lawyer: "Objection!" > > Judge: "Yes, Mr. Selachii?" > > Selachii: "The actual statement was ``a premature move to elf'', the > context of which makes it quite clear that any assumption of > maturity, or lack thereof, refers entirely to the action of > movement, or in this case the merging of code, rests entirely > with the speed or pace at which this action is carried out > and does not, in fact, make any assumptions or claims > concerning the actual maturity level of the ELF software > itself." > > Judge: "What!?" Judge: Overruled, Mr. Selachii. During discovery, you agreed with Prosecution's posit that "ELF was a good thing". You did not attach conditions then, and I will not allow you to attach conditions now. > Since there's little disagreement where it > comes to security issues or general improvement of the code base, why > not have people from all segments of "the industry" working together? There *is* disagreement about general improvement of the code base; it is in the form of "evolution vs. revolution". The evolutionists want to take an incremental step to the next stage, because they are afraid to sail their ship out of sight of the shore. The revolutionists want faster progress, as they believe that FreeBSD progress has slowed to the pace of the rest of the industry, and if this keeps up, there will be no valid reason for the project as an entity seperated from industry. Other than its own continued momentum (what you call your "customer base" and what I call your "legacy market"). > > OBSERVATION: The Linux camp has hardware donated by major vendors > > and other interested parties. So have the MACH, > > NetBSD, and OpenBSD camps. I have received personal > > Cool, please pass on these contacts then. I haven't received any such > email myself, that's all I can say, and anyone with free hardware they > want to give away is MORE than welcome to contact me at any time! > They can even call me collect if they have to! :-) You miss the point. There is a reason you have not been approached: you are not approachable, through self-selection. Your lips may say "yes", but your organizing principles say "no". [ ... ] > We've been over that. You refuse to acknowlege that making one person > change is a lot easier than making 15 of them do so, and you'd prefer > to turn the iceberg than the ship. Sorry. It's not an issue of changing people; how many times do I have to say this? My recognition of the examples of NetBSD/OpenBSD should *prove* it's not an issue of changing people. You're missing the point that the social structure, as it exists, has certain limitations inherent in the process of its operation. People are members of data sets on which organizational processes operate. The contents of the data set are irrelevent. If you were to consider evolution, you are arguing that Methane breathers could spontaneously arise and thrive in an Oxygen atmosphere. The organizational processes disagree with you; they hold precedence. A self-organizing system in a chaotic environment will suffer increased chaos at its edges as the order in the center increases; this will occur in inverse proportion to the mathematical order of the organizational model (the highest order encompassing the whole of the chaotic environment in which the system is organized). The lower the order of the organizing principle, the higher the resulting countervailing force from the environment it is organizing. Individual molecules of a gas may not be predictable, but the whole gestalt *will* obey gas laws, allowing the whole to be predictable. It is not a question of changing people; it is a question of changing the framework in which they operate. You don't need to change people to do that; you only need to overcome the inertia or momentum of the component members who act to sustain and perpetuate the existing framework. > Yadda yadda yadda. Go back to business class again and pay special > attention to the part where they talk about *small* business models > and making different tradeoffs at different times in the company > lifecycle, from 2-guys-in-a-garage to multinational corporate empire. Yadda yadda yadda. So you want to be a small business forever? Then continue to organize and react as a small business. I don't know about you, but I've personally worked in industry for nearly 14 years, and I've help take an organizational O(1) company ("2-guys-in-a-garage") and turn it into an organizational O(2) company ("22-guys-in-an-office") that could never make O(3) because the O(0) entrepeneur couldn't change his thinking, and O(n) thinking is incapable of scaling past O(n+2), no matter what controls you attempt to impose. I've also worked in an O(5) company (my current employer) and an O(6) company that just could not make it to O(7) because they were unwilling to accept the effect of economies of scale on their work model, and change the model accordingly (Novell). I tend to recognize the places I've worked when I see them again. Linux is an O(4). FreeBSD is an O(3) that is an O(4) wanna-be. The largest organization in the Internet implementation space is O(4); that's Linux. For comparison, Microsoft is O(7). > I've known more than a few garage companies who were too proud to make > any sort of concessions in order to win an initial customer base, and > you know what? They're still in their garages, wearing dirty > tee-shirts and railing at the industry for failing to recognise their > genius! :-) Take that up a fractal order (social, not organizational), and you have any group of people producing a UNIX or UNIX-clone system, including FreeBSD. FreeBSD is too "proud" (I would claim ossified, but we'll use "proud") to make the structural concessions in order to win a large-as-Linux market share. Take that up another fractal order, and you have the UNIX community as a whole, who have adopted standards as a means of obtaining short term competitive advantage rather than as a means of commoditizing themselves into homogeneous components of the larger whole. That's why a pure-POSIX system isn't sufficient as a UNIX platform, and why the POSIX standard is *intentionally* deficient in this way. The UNIX community as a whole is too "proud" (I would say it was placing O(n-1) goals ahead of O(n) goals, but again, we'll use "proud") to allow it to take the long view and provide a unified front. Let me end with a question: What is the current prioritized list of goals for the FreeBSD project? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:37:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA16755 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA16745 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id MAA12523; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:32:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120183339.006698a4@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:33:39 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:38:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA16834 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA16829 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA02385; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:39:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:39:16 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: Patrick Nadeau cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver In-Reply-To: <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I can't say how much time it will take to write it though. If you have any > timeline you were thinking of you can let me know. > > Some changes will have to be made to the arp code since it now is hard coded to > ethernet also. > > I have the driver probing and attaching the card right now which was easy. > The hard part was getting technical info from IBM! After two weeks > of calling for a few hours each day and after talking to more than > 100 different people I got the line that the information was > ``IBM confidential'' and that I would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement! > > I managed to find the information a month later by total fluke and the most > ironic thing is that it is _not_ confidential. > > I think there should be a law making it illegal to ship hardware > without technical documentation. > have you tried olicom? I heard that they are more forgiving with opening up eith driver info. I would like to do it, but I am not a programer, I am a silly person. Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Slightly Silly Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "She turned me into a Newt! A Newt? I got better." -Monty Python -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:48:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17370 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA17363 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id MAA13416; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:44:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120184504.006b5254@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:45:04 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:50:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17510 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA17483 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15733; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201834.LAA15733@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 20, 97 00:35:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One of my main talents is the ability to see order in apparently > > chatotic systems. But further, I see orders of order in these > > systems. This is what makes me a good systems engineer. > > Articles of more than five pages should be required to come with an > abstract... Abstract "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio..." Social organisms have philosophical basis which can be mathematically modelled using games, chaos, and fractal theory. Using such a model, it is possible to percieve growth limitations on the social organism which may not be apparent to the organism itself. Indeed, these limits can be seen to be dependent on the fractal order of the organization. Given knowledge of these limitations, it is possible to adjust the organization to optimize its growth. A rational social organism will act to optimize its growth, since that is the primary goal of social organisms: to subsume all competitors. Most social organisms (governments, churches, etc.) are not rational, in that they hold tenets which act to oppose change, and since growth is a form of change, they end up opposing growth. It is hoped that an organization in a less restrictive implementation space, such as a dynamic information space, will be more able to be rational. Our hypothesis is that decreased external pressure on the organizational structure will enable it to avoid ossification, and remain more fluid that one in a more traditional implementation space. Our theory is that a more fluid social organization will be, by nature, better optimized for progress toward achieving its goals (both primary and secondary). We base this theory on observation of venture capitolized social organisms with a two year fiscal horizon historically out-competing publically held social organisms with a three month fiscal horizon, with all other external stress factors being equal (in fact, we have compared the same organization with itself in different stages of a life cycle involving conversion from venture capitol to public funding). End abstract Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:51:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17591 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fog.xinside.com (fog.xinside.com [199.164.187.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA17586 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by fog.xinside.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id LAA08902; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:50:50 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fog.xinside.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from chon.xinside.com(199.164.187.134) by fog.xinside.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008898; Mon Jan 20 11:50:47 1997 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by chon.xinside.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA07568; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:50:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:50:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701201850.LAA07568@chon.xinside.com> From: Patrick Giagnocavo To: John Fieber , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: support@xinside.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber writes: > On 19 Jan 1997, Kim Culhan wrote: > > > I had XFree86 installed too but decided to follow Xinside's advice in the > > docs and delete all of XFree except the Xinside xserver stuff which > > was installed at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/AcceleratedX. > > Out of curiosity, does anyone know the nature of CDE's dependancy > on the Accelerated X server? I was thinking about getting CDE, > but then noticed on the X Inside page about it it said that > Accelerated X is required. Hello John, Thank you for your interest in our AcceleratedX CDE. We don't support CDE if you run an X server locally other than AcceleratedX. This is due to the bugs in the XF86 code that we would otherwise have customers blaming us for. As well, CDE makes heavy use of the X server, so you want a fast X server. Bundled prices from resellers such as WGS (http://www.wgs.com/) usually include the AcceleratedX server at a discount. The CDE CD-ROM includes both the Linux and FreeBSD versions; the CDE install script detects which OS you are running and does the right thing. > > I'd also be interested to know how much memory (vss and typical > rss) the window manager, session manager, file manager and > friends sucks up. On a 32 megabyte 100MHz Pentium box, would > there be anything left to actually run anything without > thrashing? > > -john > CDE -will- run even in 16MB. However you will see some swapping even just switching between workspaces. The 32MB that you have should be just fine, of course more memory is always better :-) . Do remember that you are running (probably) a high-color X server + X clients + Motif libraries + Dtwm (based on mwm) + ToolTalk (RPC) daemons. Plus any other applications and daemons that you run. The only reason that I have more than 32MB RAM in my machine is due to running a 12MB Netscape and a 20MB XEmacs process at the same time ;) Cordially -- Patrick Giagnocavo - support@xinside.com Xi Graphics - Accelerated X Servers Technical Support Department From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:55:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17796 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA17786 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id MAA14043; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:52:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120185253.006bacac@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:52:53 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 10:58:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA17971 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA17966 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id MAA14248; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:55:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120185555.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:55:55 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:06:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA18556 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA18550 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11677; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:04:39 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:52:52 MST." <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:04:38 -0800 Message-ID: <11673.853787078@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had another nice point-for-point rebuttal all prepared and ready to send when it occured to me that maybe the readers of -hackers would really rather prefer that we all get back to the technical issues at hand, so in the interests of noise reduction I'll therefore blink first and swallow my reply. All I can say in a guiltlessly short paragraph is that shaking the tree is fun, but rarely do only the bad fruit fall out of it as a result, and tree-shaking as a general management technique leaves much to be desired in any case since it seems that every budding management consultant has a long set of reasons why Your Organizational Structure is always drawn in the box with little smell rays coming from it and His Organization Structure has a little halo drawn over it. At the end of the day it's just all a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:08:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA18713 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA18708 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA15063; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120190549.006be07c@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:05:49 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:14:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA18914 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA18909 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15819; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:59:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201859.LAA15819@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? To: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:59:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com In-Reply-To: from "Khetan Gajjar" at Jan 20, 97 07:31:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've noticed a oddity on some FreeBSD 2.2 and 3.0-current machines. If I > finger a user on a public host of ours, I just get the hostname in square > brackets i.e. [servername.somewhere.org] and nothing else. > > If I try it from a Solaris box or a Linux box on the same network, with > nothing more (or less) special on the public machine's hosts.allow, it > displays the relevant information. > > Any ideas ? You must recompile fingerd; the structure of utmp has recently changed in -current. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:15:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19003 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA18977; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA14662; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:30:53 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199701201830.TAA14662@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: netboot and kernel bootp To: Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no (Tor Egge) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:30:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701031419.PAA21083@pat.idt.unit.no> from "Tor Egge" at Jan 3, 97 03:19:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am at a good point in cleaning up the netboot/kernel bootp code so that booting can be done without using TFTP (I have this already running). This makes configurations easier since you don't have to mess up with tftp, and also the netboot code is smaller since it needs not to implement TFTP. I just need a bit of advice on the overall design. First of all, the vendor info in bootp seems to be larger than the 64 bytes currently recognized by our netboot code. Anybody knows the maximum size ? I have temporarily set it to 256 but maybe even larger values are allowed (which I would make good use of since some of the boot info require pathnames, and this would make size limitations less stringent). The essential options to netboot/kernel bootp are [1] hostname and ip address [2] complete root path [3] complete swap path [4] swapsize (could be determined using nfs...) [5] kernel name plus optionally [6] root mount options [7] swap mount options [1] and [5] are no problem as there are bootp tags for the purpose, namely "ip", "hn" and "bf". For [2], I like the way netboot does now, i.e "server.ip.address:/root/path" and for this I could use the "rp" tag. But, since space is tight, one might use the approach of Tor Egge, and use "sw" as the IP for both root and swap, and limit "rp" to the path only. [3,4,6,7] unfortunately do not seem to have predefined tags, so I should use generic tags TXXX. I have checked RFC1533 (the last update to RFC1048 that I know of) and there does not seem to be any tag for this purpose. So, which tags should I use ? If no suggestion comes, I'll stick with the following: bf="/kernel.name:\ rp="server.ip.address:/root/filesystem":\ T128="swap.ip.address:/swap/filesystem":\ T129=swap_size:\ T130="root_mount_options":\ T131="swap_mount_options": Feedback appreciated. Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:18:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19247 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA19224 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA15708; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120191550.006bacac@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:19:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19352 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA19347; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15798; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:55:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201855.LAA15798@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:55:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: smraj@hotmail.com, terry@lambert.org, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701200549.QAA29523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 20, 97 04:19:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > malarraj malarraj stands accused of saying: > > > > "Jan 20 11:16:12 apt /kernal: ed0: device time out" > > This should be in the FAQ. This message means that either : > > - you have cabling problems : > - your ethernet is broken > - you have selected the wrong port (BNC vs. AUI vs. UTP) on the > card I would suspect this one first: > - the IRQ setting on the card does not match the kernel's setting. Run a DOS configuration program to determine the IRQ on the board. Note: you may have IRQ assignments that you are not aware of: 2/15) This IRQ is frequently used by video cards for vertical retrace interrupt 3/4) These IRQ's may remain connected, even if you jumper off your serial ports in your BIOS or with motherboard jumpers 7) This is the printer IRQ. It is also the "garbage" IRQ. You should not use IRQ 7 for anything other than the printer port, an even then you can have problems if you have a "noisy" card (like a soundblaster) in your system. *) You can not share IRQ's with a device, even if it is disabled, so long as it is plugged into the bus, it will most likely drive the line low. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:21:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA19638 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA19626 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA11763; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:21:18 -0800 (PST) To: Patrick Nadeau cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:17:14 GMT." <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:21:18 -0800 Message-ID: <11759.853788078@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to volunteer to write an IBM Token ring > driver. Yay! > I can't say how much time it will take to write it though. If you have any > timeline you were thinking of you can let me know. We've been waiting 2 years, I think we can give you as much time as you need to do it properly. :-) > I think there should be a law making it illegal to ship hardware > without technical documentation. I would vote for it in a heartbeat. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:28:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA20115 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA20110 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA01371; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:23:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701201923.LAA01371@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:52:52 MST." <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:23:48 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >1) Linux has ELF. Linux often wishes they didn't. >2) FreeBSD does not. >3) ELF is desirable ELF is a bloated abomination that has numerous architectural problems and is good at making things slower. >4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. Yeah, they are better at marketing than we are. They've also been around for two years longer than we have. All things considered, I think we're doing rather well. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA20214 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA20206 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:29:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA16470; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:25:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120192549.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:25:49 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:34:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA20647 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA20638 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA15903; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:18:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201918.MAA15903@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:18:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <11673.853787078@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 20, 97 11:04:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All I can say in a guiltlessly short paragraph is that shaking the > tree is fun, but rarely do only the bad fruit fall out of it as a > result, and tree-shaking as a general management technique leaves much > to be desired in any case since it seems that every budding management > consultant has a long set of reasons why Your Organizational Structure > is always drawn in the box with little smell rays coming from it and > His Organization Structure has a little halo drawn over it. At the > end of the day it's just all a lot of sound and fury, signifying > nothing. For what it's worth, I agree with you. I'm not "shaking the tree"; if you are seeing what I am doing as that, then you are misperceiving my intent, and we need to mututally decide how I can best express my actual intent in such a way as to get past your existing perceptual filters unbiased. I am also not attempting to be a management consultant, since you will notice that I have not presented a new chart with a box with a halo; in fact, I've publically criticized OpenBSD's chart with that picture on it. I *am* asking "Are these lines which I see smell rays?" If your answer is "yes", then the rest is implication and assumption on your part; I am only advocating self-examination, and it's not my fault if the examiner doesn't like what he sees. "The unexamined life is not worth living" -- Joseph Campbell, Rational Humanist Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:38:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA21046 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA21037 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA17231; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:35:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120193556.006be07c@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:35:56 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:48:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA21675 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from home.winc.com (root@home.winc.com [204.178.182.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA21669 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from inetgw.aristar.com (slip134.winc.com [204.178.182.134]) by home.winc.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA27104 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:47:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199701201947.OAA27104@home.winc.com> From: "Matthew A. Gessner" To: "hackers" Subject: ppp alias under 2.1.5 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:53:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, all, I received the ppp aliasing code from Eivind Eklund that has Charles Mott's extensions for doing ppp aliasing. It works fine on the LAN; as a matter of fact, I'm composing this message under Win95 and it will go out on my ethernet and through my modem. However, we have a number of serial devices that I want to use, and I've got serial ports on my internet gateway (inetgw.aristar.com) but I'm having some problems. I have Steve Sim's guide to setting the LAN up, but it appears that the ppp server doesn't work properly this way (tun1 -> tun0). I'll give an example. I've attached the ppp.conf files from two machines: inetgw and voyager. If someone could point out to me why packets AREN'T being forwarded from tun1 to tun0 and what I need to change, I'd appreciate it. The only thing I found that works is to create a route after ppp is logged in (say I want to go from voyager (10.0.0.133) to home.winc.com (204.178.182.2) through inetgw (10.0.0.4): I have to do route add 204.178.182.2 10.0.0.4) and then I can ping it. But that doesn't do me a lot of good). And before I forget, inetgw has its ed1 address set to 10.0.0.4 as well as tun1 when the other machine is connected. Maybe I'm accidentally causing a loop by doing this, but I don't have any luck if I set it to something else. If you're wondering where all this is going, we write software for Newton MessagePads, and we need to be able to hook them up via serial PPP to test some server applications we've written that use TCP/IP across the Internet. This is a convenient way to test our client/server models locally without having to dial up long distance calls to the server. Anyway, here are my files. --------------------------------------------------- # # Begin inetgw ppp.conf # default: set device /dev/cuaa0 set speed 115200 disable lqr deny lqr set dial "ABORT BUSY ABORT NO\\sCARRIER TIMEOUT 5 \"\" ATE1Q0 OK-AT-OK \\dATDT\\T TIMEOUT 45 CONNECT" wincppp: set phone 867-5895 accept pap set authname %^&*^&* set authkey &$%^&* set timeout 0 set redial 1 10 set ifaddr 204.178.182.134 204.178.182.20 set openmode active dial dialup: disable pap enable chap enable proxy set authname ppp-server set ifaddr 0.0.0.0/24 10.0.0.3/24 255.255.255.0 # # End inetgw ppp.conf # --------------------------------------------------- # # Begin inetgw ppp.linkup # 204.178.182.134: add 0 0 HISADDR 10.0.0.133: add 0 0 HISADDR # # End inetgw ppp.linkup # --------------------------------------------------- # # Begin voyager ppp.conf # default: set device /dev/cuaa0 set speed 9600 disable lqr deny lqr serial: accept pap set authname ppp2 set authkey pppari* set timeout 0 set ifaddr 10.0.0.133 10.0.0.4/24 255.255.255.0 set openmode active # # Now go into terminal mode, login and away we go! # # End voyager ppp.conf --------------------------------------------------- # # Begin voyager ppp.linkup # MYADDR: add 0 0 HISADDR # # End voyager ppp.linkup # ---------------------------------------------------- One last question: When I run 'ppp serial' on voyager (the ppp client) I can't put 'dial' at the end, b/c I get a core dump. Any ideas? Do I need to set a 'set dial ""' to make that work? -- Matthew A. Gessner, Computer Scientist Aristar, Inc. Akron, OH 330.668.2267 FAX 330.668.2961 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA21715 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA21706 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA17906; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:45:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120194550.006bace0@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:45:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 11:59:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA22369 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA22362 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id NAA18630; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:55:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120195550.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:55:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:00:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA22601 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA22594 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from PacBell.TelcoSucks.org (ulf@PacBell.TelcoSucks.org [207.90.181.5]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA01730 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:00:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970120120221.00c1f8d0@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> X-Sender: ulf@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:02:22 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Ulf Zimmermann Subject: 2.2-BETA writes on Dos parition ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. I have here a system with an IDE *wuergs* disk. Size is 1.2GB, 800 MB are used under FAT (WinShit95/NT4) and 400MB are used under FreeBSD. I had 2.1.5R and then 2.1.6R running, everything was fine. Then I installed 2.2-BETA and now I am getting always from FreeBSD the message / wasn't correctly unmounted, after I was in NT (probably also after WinShit95). The same, after I was running FreeBSD, the NT often complains that the checksum of the kernel doesn't match the computed checksum. Either switching off the system or running scandisk under a command prompt only helps to bring it up. I had also once 2 corrupted files, corrupted, that the long file name wasn't correct. Has anyone seen something simular ? I don't think my partitions overlap. Ulf. ----------------------------------------------------------- Alameda Networks, Inc. | Ulf Zimmermann (ulf@Alameda.net) 1525 Pacific Avenue | Phone: (510)769-2936 Alameda, CA 94501 | Fax : (510)521-5073 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:03:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA22777 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA22772 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15627; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701201958.MAA15627@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <17107.853740593@time.cdrom.com> <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > I admit that following pattern-flow logic requires the ability to > follow patern-flow logic. If you've got it, you've got it; if you > haven't, it's "tediously unreadable". Like Clifford Algebras or > Chebyenchev Polynomials. Translation: Terry: I'm a stud, you're not. > > > OBSERVATION: Other OS's have achieved these tasks. > > > > "OBSERVATION: NO OS has acheived these tasks without paying a > > full-time staff, and none of the free OS camps has enough clued-in > > bodies to do even half the things they'd like (and possibly even need) > > to do. Terry is peering into alternate universe again due to local > > field effect of as-yet undetermined nature." > > 1) Linux has ELF. > 2) FreeBSD does not. > 3) ELF is desirable > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. Item 4 is *NOT* the inevitable result of 1, 2, and 3. You've forgotten that ELF was *necessary* in Linux in order for it to get beyond a certain stage, and it's not (yet) necessary in FreeBSD. Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best interest in mind. > 1) Linux has a large number of willing bodies > 2) FreeBSD complains of a dearth of bodies. > 3) Allocation of bodies to the projects is based on the > interaction of the social organism with the larger society. > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. - Microsoft has a large number of willing bodies willing to test it's software for free. ... - Microsoft's model must be superior... Hmm, somewhere there is a logic fallacy. > > > QUESTION: Why is is that the adoption of ELF is categorized > > > as premature, when it works? > > > > Defense lawyer: "Objection!" > > > > Judge: "Yes, Mr. Selachii?" > > > > Selachii: "The actual statement was ``a premature move to elf'', the > > context of which makes it quite clear that any assumption of > > maturity, or lack thereof, refers entirely to the action of > > movement, or in this case the merging of code, rests entirely > > with the speed or pace at which this action is carried out > > and does not, in fact, make any assumptions or claims > > concerning the actual maturity level of the ELF software > > itself." > > > > Judge: "What!?" > > Judge: Overruled, Mr. Selachii. During discovery, you agreed > with Prosecution's posit that "ELF was a good thing". > You did not attach conditions then, and I will not > allow you to attach conditions now. Right! You want to play stupid word games: 1) Bill Gates has a couple billion dollars 2) Terry does not 3) Having a couple billion dollars is a good thing since Terry wants to invest in nano-technology 4) Terry is doing something wrong. Terry: But, but having a billion dollars isn't as important to me as finding good solution to problems, rather than re-using existing technology. Judge: Over-ruled, not external stipulations are allowed, you agreed that having a couple billion dollars was a good thing and *NOTHING* can stand in the way of you making it your only priority in life. So Terry, I want to see you start quitting time posting to the mailing lists and instead I want to see your name with the likes of Marc A., Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates in the next year. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA23214 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA23207 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA19393; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120200550.006b02e4@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:05:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:12:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA23558 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA23552 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA16041; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:55:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701201955.MAA16041@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:55:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701201923.LAA01371@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jan 20, 97 11:23:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >1) Linux has ELF. > > Linux often wishes they didn't. > > >2) FreeBSD does not. > >3) ELF is desirable > > ELF is a bloated abomination that has numerous architectural problems and > is good at making things slower. Begging the admirals pardon, sir... but isn't it true that most commercial UNIX developement for SCO and Solaris platforms is now ELF? Compare and contrast the amount of developement for commercial vs. "free UNIX" platforms. And isn't it also true that most component-software for Intel (meaning all of the ActiveX stuff) is also ELF, and could potentially be utilized by an ELF-based system? ELF is right for reasons other than "it's a fine implementation" (which it isn't). > >4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. > > Yeah, they are better at marketing than we are. They've also been around > for two years longer than we have. All things considered, I think we're doing > rather well. They haven't been around for two years more... you are unfairly thowing out the 386BSD efforts in order to get FreeBSD a more defensible place on the lifecycle curve. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:18:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24053 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:18:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA24043 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA20181; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:15:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120201550.006be0b0@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:15:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:28:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24499 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA24493 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA21005; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:25:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120202550.006bad14@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:25:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:32:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA24712 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA24704 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:32:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id HAA24978 Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:32:27 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199701202032.HAA24978@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970120185253.006bacac@jump.net> from Lee Crites at "Jan 20, 97 12:52:53 pm" To: adonai@jump.net (Lee Crites) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:32:27 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Will someone please shoot this damned message .. I've got six of 'em in the last so many minutes .. michael > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Tue Jan 21 07:30:36 1997 > Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120185253.006bacac@jump.net> > X-Sender: adonai@jump.net > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:52:53 -0600 > To: Terry Lambert > From: Lee Crites > Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Precedence: bulk > At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about > >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get > >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > > > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). > > One of the things I used to say .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:38:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25117 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA25110 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA21721; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:35:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120203550.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:35:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:39:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25208 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA25171 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA20238 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:37:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA26575; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:03:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:03:44 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem in connecting a machine in network References: <19970120050513.17150.qmail@hotmail.com> <199701200549.QAA29523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701200549.QAA29523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Jan 20, 1997 16:19:48 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > "Jan 20 11:16:12 apt /kernal: ed0: device time out" > > This should be in the FAQ. It is, but not under `Networking' but under `Installation'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:48:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA26040 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA26032 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA22431; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:45:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120204550.006b0318@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:45:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:50:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA26235 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:50:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA26200 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA20427; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:48:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA26613; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:21:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:21:33 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: lgomez@bolivar.eafit.edu.co (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Lucas_Adri=E1n_G=F3mez_Bland=F3n?=) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Know about you!!!! References: <01BC0693.C587C5E0@shibumi> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C01BC0693=2EC587C5E0=40shibumi=3E=3B_from_Lucas_Adri=E1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?n_G=F3mez_Bland=F3n_on_Jan_20=2C_1997_05=3A35=3A38_-0500?= Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Lucas Adrián Gómez Blandón wrote: > I'm very interested in know about your project, you will tell me, > how i can subscribe to the e-mail list???, please, sedme info about > this. Simply send a mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with just `help' in the body. > I need information about remove a log from the system, i can add a > log with "adduser" but, how i can delete this???. There's a removeuser script available now. Depending on your FreeBSD version, you might find it under /usr/share/examples/. If your system doesn't have it, watch out ftp.freebsd.org under FreeBSD-current. (src/usr.sbin/adduser contains an rmuser script now.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:58:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA26914 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA26882; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA09972 ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA20473; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:51:41 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA26650; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:22:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:22:58 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: pnadeau@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca (Patrick Nadeau) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, gj@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver References: <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca>; from Patrick Nadeau on Jan 20, 1997 12:17:14 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Patrick Nadeau wrote: > I would like to volunteer to write an IBM Token ring > driver. Get in contact with Gary Jennejohn . He was also planning to write one. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 12:58:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA26953 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA26940 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id OAA23137; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:55:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120205551.006be0e4@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:55:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:04:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27611 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA27592 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20766; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:01:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA26674; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:31:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:31:40 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Khetan Gajjar on Jan 20, 1997 19:31:02 +0200 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Khetan Gajjar wrote: > I've noticed a oddity on some FreeBSD 2.2 and 3.0-current machines. If I > finger a user on a public host of ours, I just get the hostname in square > brackets i.e. [servername.somewhere.org] and nothing else. Is servername.somewhere.org a Linux machine? ISTR reports that the Linux TCP stack blows if confronted with T/TCP. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:04:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27615 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA27599 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA16186; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701202047.NAA16186@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701201958.MAA15627@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 20, 97 12:58:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I admit that following pattern-flow logic requires the ability to > > follow patern-flow logic. If you've got it, you've got it; if you > > haven't, it's "tediously unreadable". Like Clifford Algebras or > > Chebyenchev Polynomials. > > Translation: > > Terry: I'm a stud, you're not. Correct translation: Just because the process is convoluted does not invalidate the results. Quit bitching about the process and pay attention to the bottom line, because that's what's truly important. > > 1) Linux has ELF. > > 2) FreeBSD does not. > > 3) ELF is desirable > > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. > > Item 4 is *NOT* the inevitable result of 1, 2, and 3. You've forgotten > that ELF was *necessary* in Linux in order for it to get beyond a > certain stage, and it's not (yet) necessary in FreeBSD. ELF was *not* necessary for Linux to obtain BSD-style shared libraries; BSD is proof of that. If you are referring to a different stage than that, then I argue that the same is true of BSD. > Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best interest > in mind. If FreeBSD did not move to ELF because it was "protecting" the best interests of its users, then it made an error. A good tactical decision is not necessarily a good strategic decision. FreeBSD's first priority must be protecting FreeBSD's interests; all other goals should be subservient to that. A failed FreeBS can protect no one's interests. User interests must be sublimated to project interests. > - Microsoft has a large number of willing bodies willing to test it's > software for free. > ... > - Microsoft's model must be superior... The model in which testing new features does not interfere with the utilization of old features? In many ways it is. > Hmm, somewhere there is a logic fallacy. The fallacy is that there is not a grand technical design which Microsoft is building toward; if you are looking to advance the state of the art or human knowledge in general, then the Microsoft model does not take that into account. The fallacy is therefore in you ascribing your goals to Microsoft. > Right! > > You want to play stupid word games: > 1) Bill Gates has a couple billion dollars > 2) Terry does not > 3) Having a couple billion dollars is a good thing since Terry > wants to invest in nano-technology > 4) Terry is doing something wrong. > > Terry: But, but having a billion dollars isn't as important to me as > finding good solution to problems, rather than re-using existing > technology. You are ascribing goals to me which I do not hold to be evident. I would be more than happy to reuse SVR4 initd design, for instance, or NT kernel paging, or Windows95 virtual machine technology. It is not I who screams "not invented at Berkeley" at these things. A good soloution often obtains from recognizing that your feet are in fact on a path, and there are in fact footprints for you to follow, if only you will first look for a path once in a while. PS: Bill Gates is investing in nanotechnology. > Judge: Over-ruled, not external stipulations are allowed, you agreed > that having a couple billion dollars was a good thing and *NOTHING* can > stand in the way of you making it your only priority in life. > > So Terry, I want to see you start quitting time posting to the mailing > lists and instead I want to see your name with the likes of Marc A., > Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates in the next year. These people all started from a lucky break; read Robert Cringely's "Accidental Empires" for a history. What "Terry is doing wrong" in your #4 above is not being in the right place at the right time to get hit by lightning. Terry is not a Schnelling point. What "Terry is doing right" is working on modelling lightning so that he can tell where to stand before it hits, and stand there. Eventually, Terry will succeed, because if nothing else, Terry is inhumanly patient; he takes the long view, and this is a long term success strategy. I suggest you read about "The Prisoner's Dilemma" in the book "The Evolution of Cooperation". The optimal success strategy for the game is "modified tit for tat with forgiveness". Provide me with a similar lucky break as the people you mention, without the additional work on my part, and I will be happy to skip the "figure out where to stand" phase, and parley it into billions for investment in nanotechnology and similar transhumanist goals (or send half to whatever other charity you choose). Personally, I believe in a future where the only thing of value is information, and arrangements of matter are only abstract representations of information... my half will probably go toward research in nanotechnology, and fields of study which will result in me staying around to enjoy the fruits of my labor. After all, being human, I have the same wiring for self interest as the rest of the race. I am smart enough that if I could not do it myself, I would get the *hell* out of the way and let someone else do it for me, while I direct the investments and structural boundry transitions, or otherwise contribute however I can. I would not pilot the plane into the ground, even if I had to turn in my pilot hat. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:08:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27854 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA27849 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA23893; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120210550.006bad48@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:05:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:08:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA27883 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:08:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA27874 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA28948; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E3D7B9.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:17 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Nadeau CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver References: <199701201217.MAA26656@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Patrick Nadeau wrote: > > I would like to volunteer to write an IBM Token ring > driver. YAY!!! if you need help let me know!! > > I work in a Token ring shop so I find myself having to route everything > through a Linux box to reach the corporate network :-( so you can read the linux driver as well.. that's a good start! > > I can't say how much time it will take to write it though. If you have any > timeline you were thinking of you can let me know. > > Some changes will have to be made to the arp code since it now is hard coded to > ethernet also. the arp code can be done separatlyi if you are in a bind.. see the appletalk arp code.. I hope to modify the appletalk code to use the regular arp code, but haven't had the time yet.. > > I have the driver probing and attaching the card right now which was easy. > The hard part was getting technical info from IBM! After two weeks > of calling for a few hours each day and after talking to more than > 100 different people I got the line that the information was > ``IBM confidential'' and that I would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement! > > I managed to find the information a month later by total fluke and the most > ironic thing is that it is _not_ confidential. > > I think there should be a law making it illegal to ship hardware > without technical documentation. yeah! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:15:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28247 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [207.173.16.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA28241 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (fluffy.aros.net [207.173.16.2]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.8.4/Unknown) with ESMTP id OAA20351; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fluffy.aros.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA12450; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:14:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701202114.OAA12450@fluffy.aros.net> To: Terry Lambert cc: khetan@iafrica.com (Khetan Gajjar), hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:59:10 MST." <199701201859.LAA15819@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:14:56 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I've noticed a oddity on some FreeBSD 2.2 and 3.0-current machines. If I > > finger a user on a public host of ours, I just get the hostname in square > > brackets i.e. [servername.somewhere.org] and nothing else. > > > > You must recompile fingerd; the structure of utmp has recently changed > in -current. Er, no. Finger on FreeBSD 2.2 and later tries to use T/TCP by default. I'd probably call this a bug, since it causes finger to not work properly with the majority of servers extant on the Internet. To disable T/TCP with finger, supply the "-T" option to finger: finger -T user@some-non-FreeBSD-host The only reason I can guess for this slipping through is that it was only tested on an homogenous FreeBSD network, where it works perfectly. Unless someone can present a good reason for finger being broken WRT the vast majority of servers out there, I'll send-pr this. -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:15:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28264 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA28246 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA16271; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:59:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701202059.NAA16271@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:59:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: adonai@jump.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701202032.HAA24978@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Jan 21, 97 07:32:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Will someone please shoot this damned message .. I've got six of 'em in the > last so many minutes .. > > michael > > > From: Lee Crites > > Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation [ ... ] > > One of the things I used to say .. One wonders if Lee is trying to make a point of telling us we should *do* something. If so, I would caution that no matter how many pounds of beans would be donated were we to *do* something to request more beans, the FreeBSD camp is still structurally a 5 pound bean sack, and anything over 5 pounds donated will go to waste. The problem is lack of space in the sack, not lack of beans. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:18:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA28454; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA24879; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:17:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id PAA13259; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:17:39 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199701202117.PAA13259@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: netboot and kernel bootp To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 15:17:35 CST Cc: Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no, phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701201830.TAA14662@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Jan 20, 97 03:14:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I am at a good point in cleaning up the netboot/kernel bootp code > so that booting can be done without using TFTP (I have this already > running). This makes configurations easier since you don't have to > mess up with tftp, and also the netboot code is smaller since it > needs not to implement TFTP. I just need a bit of advice on the > overall design. What are you doing, if not tftp? Related, sorta: I built a prototype "xkernel" type xterminal configuration for FreeBSD that boots off of a floppy and NFS mounts a minimal amount of stuff off of a file server. It's a little ugly but works fine. I avoided the whole TFTP thing too, mainly out of necessity, since I did not see a way to make a de-based netboot without lots of work. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:19:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28499 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA28492 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA24594; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:15:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120211551.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:15:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:26:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA28913 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA28907 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA16324; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:10:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701202110.OAA16324@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? To: angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:10:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, khetan@iafrica.com, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com In-Reply-To: <199701202114.OAA12450@fluffy.aros.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Jan 20, 97 02:14:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Er, no. Finger on FreeBSD 2.2 and later tries to use T/TCP by default. > I'd probably call this a bug, since it causes finger to not work properly > with the majority of servers extant on the Internet. Ah. No, the bug is in an intermediate host TCP implementation. > Unless someone can present a good reason for finger being broken WRT > the vast majority of servers out there, I'll send-pr this. Even pre-extension TCP implementations were required to allow data on SYN packets. If there is one which does not, it is non-compliant and should be bugreported to the manufacturer. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:29:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29140 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29124 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA25313; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:25:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120212551.006b0434@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:25:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:30:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29221 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29184 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA10171; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010169; Mon Jan 20 13:29:19 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA12394; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:19 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199701202129.NAA12394@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ipdivert & masqd In-Reply-To: <199701200232.CAA25196@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Jan 20, 97 02:32:01 am" To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, as a start to "masqd", I've written a filter that doesn nothing. It > receives a packet, outputs bits of info, then inserts it back into the IP > stream (after fixing the IP checksum if it's an "in" packet). > > Works fine for tcp connections (telnet at least) & udp (NFS at least), but > only half-works for ICMP. It gets the incoming ICMP (ping), fixes the sum > and does the sendto(), but never sees the reply. The reply is received by > the sender though..... What do your ipfw rules look like while masqd is running? -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:32:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29451 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29445 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16080; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:28:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:28:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701202128.OAA16080@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701202047.NAA16186@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701201958.MAA15627@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199701202047.NAA16186@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 1) Linux has ELF. > > > 2) FreeBSD does not. > > > 3) ELF is desirable > > > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. > > > > Item 4 is *NOT* the inevitable result of 1, 2, and 3. You've forgotten > > that ELF was *necessary* in Linux in order for it to get beyond a > > certain stage, and it's not (yet) necessary in FreeBSD. > > ELF was *not* necessary for Linux to obtain BSD-style shared libraries; > BSD is proof of that. If you are referring to a different stage than > that, then I argue that the same is true of BSD. ELF was required because H.J. Lu *will* NOT even consider looking outside the GNU project for code. He was told for years about the BSD shlib implementation yet has never once looked at it, and still believes our shlib implementation is still the same as their old a.out shlibs. (Seriously) > > Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best interest > > in mind. > > If FreeBSD did not move to ELF because it was "protecting" the best > interests of its users, then it made an error. Why? That's a pretty strong statement you make w/out anything to back it up. > FreeBSD's first priority must be protecting FreeBSD's interests; FreeBSD's primary interest is to keep the people developing code for it happy so they'll maintain and develop code for it. The secondary interest is to encourage people to use it so that the developers can feel good that their work is useful. Neither of these reasons preclude using ELF tools. > > Right! > > > > You want to play stupid word games: > > 1) Bill Gates has a couple billion dollars > > 2) Terry does not > > 3) Having a couple billion dollars is a good thing since Terry > > wants to invest in nano-technology > > 4) Terry is doing something wrong. > > > > Terry: But, but having a billion dollars isn't as important to me as > > finding good solution to problems, rather than re-using existing > > technology. > > You are ascribing goals to me which I do not hold to be evident. Ahh, but I could go off and document your *extreme* desire for nano-technology, and your arguement that the only thing holding it back is money. Matter of fact, I could argue that you've argued for nano-technology more than for ELF. They are evident to many folks, in the same manner that 'ELF' is a good thing. They are simply more important things to you to do than get a billion dollars to spend on nano-technology that youd' rather spend your time on (ahh, but we're making excuses now, and that's not allowed in your world). Priorities don't exist in your complaints, and neither do grey areas. Live by the same rules you set for the FreeBSD project and start making a billion dollars since you believe nano-technology is a good thing. That you set priorities to other items is simply not acceptable in the black/white world that you set before the FreeBSD project, so it will not be acceptable to us either. Live by the same rules you put before others, or be branded a hypocrite. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:38:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29903 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29895 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA13207; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:38:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (jandrese.async.vt.edu [128.173.20.208]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA05711; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:38:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:37:46 +0000 () From: Nessus X-Sender: jandrese@localhost To: Lee Crites cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970120201550.006be0b0@jump.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Lee Crites wrote: =)At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: =) =)>> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about =)>> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get =)>> popular by having good products and telling people about them. =)> =)>Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). =) =)One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor =)changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who =)brought you edlin..." =) Excuse me, am I the only one who has recieved this message 20+ times in the last 2 days? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : Running FreeBSD and :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: loving every minute! :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: Alden's Laws: (1) Giving away baby clothes and furniture is the major cause of pregnancy. (2) Always be backlit. (3) Sit down whenever possible. :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:38:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29970 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA29949 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA26168; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:35:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120213551.006be0e4@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:35:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:41:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA00330 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com (root@vdp01.vailsystems.com [207.152.98.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA00322 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from crocodile.vale.com (crocodile [204.117.217.147]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03035 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:41:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from jaguar (jaguar.vale.com [204.117.217.146]) by crocodile.vale.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA13425 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:41:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32E3E693.2364@vailsys.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:41:40 -0600 From: Hal Snyder Reply-To: hal@vailsys.com Organization: Vail Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Molnar wrote: > have you tried olicom? I heard that they are more forgiving > with opening up eith driver info. I would like to do it, but > I am not a programer, I am a silly person. I talked to Olicom a year ago about writing a FreeBSD token driver for their PCI token ring card, since my employer at the time was stuck with a lot of legacy dinosaur equipment. The response I got was that driver writers' documentation was trade secret and they had absolutely no intention of telling anyone how their superlative token ring card works. After that, all nodes added to the LAN were ether. We had that luxury, since cabling was CAT-5 and the main router had both types of interface. :) Hal From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA00816 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA00807 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:48:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA27405; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:45:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120214551.006bb254@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:45:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 13:59:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA01323 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01308 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA28162; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:55:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120215551.006b2d18@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:55:51 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 14:00:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA01498 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA01485; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA15121; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:15:00 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199701202115.WAA15121@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: netboot and kernel bootp To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:14:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no, phk@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701202117.PAA13259@solaria.sol.net> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 20, 97 03:17:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > > > I am at a good point in cleaning up the netboot/kernel bootp code > > so that booting can be done without using TFTP (I have this already ... > What are you doing, if not tftp? BOOTP to get all the booting parameters, then NFS to load the kernel. > Related, sorta: > > I built a prototype "xkernel" type xterminal configuration for FreeBSD > that boots off of a floppy and NFS mounts a minimal amount of stuff off > of a file server. It's a little ugly but works fine. > > I avoided the whole TFTP thing too, mainly out of necessity, since I did > not see a way to make a de-based netboot without lots of work. the kernel bootp stuff developed by Tor Egge probably does exactly what you need. Hopefully some committer will try it out and do the commit. It's really unintrusive. Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 14:02:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA01586 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from becker1.u.washington.edu (spaz@becker1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA01578; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spaz@localhost) by becker1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW96.12) with SMTP id OAA10672; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:02:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:02:04 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with WD/Phillips 9710 video and 2.1.6-RELEASE Install Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi hackers and Jordan; After the difficulties i had with the ppp install i dropped back to 2.1.6-RELEASE because i need my machines for school. I have a amd 486/133 machine that i was using as a server that has been replaced by a amd k5-pr100. I have now replaced my venerable micronics 386/33 seat ( my first freebsd board from pre 1.0 days ) with the 486/133 and added a nifty $59.00 phillips 9710 based western digital 2meg edo pci video card . This were the trouble occurs. I can boot the machine and do the visual kernel config, but as soon as the install proceeds to the beautiful blue screen colortext configuration menu, the screen goes blank! arggh!. Is there some pci configuration thing i need to do? Does the install not work with pci video cards? that seems hard to believe. is there some bios hack i need to do to get the card to pretend to be a vga card or something? I suppose i could use one of my old lame cards for the install, but that would not be practical for most folks. The install has preceded normally for the k5-100 fake pentium machine with the lame wd90c00 video card ( it is my server, i never have a monitor or keyboard plugged in unless i am in maintanance mode ). The sig11 problems with this machine has been reviewd in another letter. I can't believe i have done this to myself. I have spent years reading about peoples troubles with unsupported hardware, greed made me foolish ( 2megedo-penus envy! ). suggestions or work arounds appreicated..jordan, if this is an issue that has not come up before on the install, i would be happy to tryout anything u can gin up. tnx! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 14:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA02152 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:08:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA02135 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id QAA28883; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120220550.006b0538@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:05:50 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who brought you edlin..." In all honesty, most people *don't* consider M$'s products to be the best, even M$. So why are they the most popular? I can't say. I *think* it is because of the hype found in many of today's periodicals. So we have this paradox: you are good (popular?) if people *think* you are good, and people *think* you are good if you are good. Which comes first? I came into FreeBSD after some real fact-gathering and decision-making excercises came out basically undecided. When I ordered my first cd's, I was literally still trying to justify going for FreeBSD or Linux. What caused me to go one this was is another story. My point is that once someone really starts to look into which os they want to use with an open mind, there are a lot of sources available to tell them of the quality of FreeBSD -- you just have to look for them. In my opinion, the polular media -- newspapers, talkshows, and magazines, just won't take the time to look for them. So I think one of the original propositions made in this discussion is true: *WE*, the users and developers, must make that information known. I, for one, have no clue how to submit an article to a magazine for publication. If I knew, I'd be more than happy to write an article about my experiences getting on-line with FreeBSD. (if you know how, please let me know) I'd like to join some of the local (Austin, Texas) unix users groups and start working on forming a FreeBSD users group and/or FreeBSD sigs in the others. I'd like to stop by my kids schools and see if they'd be interested in learning a real operating system. I could then take Jordan up on his offer to supply promotional cd's do places like that. I'd even be quite interested in a FreeBSD specific magazine, if one existed. I can do the article; I can do the user group thing; I can stop by the high school and junior high and talk to them; I have no clue how to do a magazine. (Any takers?) Anyway, what I am trying to point out here is I think we must *do* something. If all of us did one thing each quarter to promote FreeBSD, how many thousands of things would happen each year? Imagine what would happen in the unix world if in the next 12 months there were 1,000 articles submited concerning the finer points of FreeBSD... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 15:00:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA06116 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA06109 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (db@ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00250; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:03:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970120175928.008f4690@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:59:32 -0500 To: Nate Williams From: dennis Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate articulated.... > >Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best interest >in mind. Nothing in Linux is done with consideration of its impact on the general community..... > >> 1) Linux has a large number of willing bodies >> 2) FreeBSD complains of a dearth of bodies. >> 3) Allocation of bodies to the projects is based on the >> interaction of the social organism with the larger society. >> 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. Linux has much fewer pieces that work well than Freebsd. Having a good product is fairly meaningless without the right marketing. FreeBSD has more "good" things than BSDI, and they're doing pretty well.... Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 15:13:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA07385 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA07370; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:12:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701202312.PAA07370@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: added to kill file To: hackers Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:12:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: adonai@jump.net, postmaster@jump.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk yesterday, we started to get a deluge of these messages. i spoke with people at jump.net, and the problem subsided for a while. well.......its baaaaack! i have added "adonai@jump.net" to the kill file. sorry for the annoyance that this has caused. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:45:04 -0600 > From: Lee Crites > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation > > At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about > >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get > >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > > > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). > > One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor > changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who > brought you edlin..." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 15:42:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA10489 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from fyeung5.netific.com (netific.vip.best.com [205.149.182.145]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA10484 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:42:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fyeung8.netific.com (fyeung8.netific.com [204.238.125.8]) by fyeung5.netific.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA10230; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:46:24 -0800 Received: by fyeung8.netific.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07519; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:49:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:49:32 -0800 From: fyeung@fyeung8.netific.com (Francis Yeung) Message-Id: <9701202349.AA07519@fyeung8.netific.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org, hal@vailsys.com Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hal, How you talk to Madge by any chance ? If Olicom uses TI or NS chipsets, there are plenty of information around. There is a IBM Token Ring packet driver with source. Will this help. You need some LLC code which can be cut and pasted from the other sources. Francis > From root@fyeung25.netific.com Mon Jan 20 15:27 PST 1997 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:41:40 -0600 > From: Hal Snyder > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: IBM Token ring driver > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Stefan Molnar wrote: > > > have you tried olicom? I heard that they are more forgiving > > with opening up eith driver info. I would like to do it, but > > I am not a programer, I am a silly person. > > I talked to Olicom a year ago about writing a FreeBSD token driver for > their PCI token ring card, since my employer at the time was stuck with > a lot of legacy dinosaur equipment. > > The response I got was that driver writers' documentation was trade > secret and they had absolutely no intention of telling anyone how their > superlative token ring card works. > > After that, all nodes added to the LAN were ether. We had that luxury, > since cabling was CAT-5 and the main router had both types of > interface. :) > > Hal > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 15:55:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA11338 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA11327 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA02811 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:36:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E4011C.7DE14518@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:34:52 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: That mail that keeps resending Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk looking at the headers: Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by ns2.harborcom.net(206.158.4.4) (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA19026; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA25150; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25117 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) looks like either freefall or ns2.harborcom.net is screwing up (looking at the delay) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 16:13:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12088 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA12082 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA02259; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:06:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E3FA16.237C228A@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:04:54 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: Khetan Gajjar , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Terry References: <199701201859.LAA15819@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I've noticed a oddity on some FreeBSD 2.2 and 3.0-current machines. If I > > finger a user on a public host of ours, I just get the hostname in square > > brackets i.e. [servername.somewhere.org] and nothing else. > > > > If I try it from a Solaris box or a Linux box on the same network, with > > nothing more (or less) special on the public machine's hosts.allow, it > > displays the relevant information. > > > > Any ideas ? > > You must recompile fingerd; the structure of utmp has recently changed > in -current. > > TERRY read the question!! he's talking CLIENT problems.. while you're on, I'm interested in doing some integration of your layering fixes, IF you can send them to me as a bunch of individual patch sets, each of whuch addresses a differnt problem. (of course each patch would require discussion with others but at least if they ARE individual problem fixes, they CAN be sensibly discussed!) send mew the first patch as soon as you are ready! julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 16:15:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12206 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA12198 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16714; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:59:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701202359.QAA16714@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:59:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@mt.sri.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701202128.OAA16080@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 20, 97 02:28:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If FreeBSD did not move to ELF because it was "protecting" the best > > interests of its users, then it made an error. > > Why? That's a pretty strong statement you make w/out anything to back > it up. I already said why: > > FreeBSD's first priority must be protecting FreeBSD's interests; The first goal of any entity must be self-preservation. All other goals an actor may have are dependent upon the continued pursuit of those goals by the actor... goals do not pursue themselves. If the actor allows themself to be removed, then the other goals will not be achieved. All goals must be sobservient to continued existance of the actor. This is true of the actor is an individual human organism, or an individual social orgnism composed of one or more humans. > FreeBSD's primary interest is to keep the people developing code for it > happy so they'll maintain and develop code for it. The secondary > interest is to encourage people to use it so that the developers can > feel good that their work is useful. Neither of these reasons preclude > using ELF tools. The topic at issue is not "why ELF should not be precluded", but "why ELF should be adopted". You're right that ELF is not precluded by these... yet ELF has not been adopted; therefore there must be something else precluding it. Jordan argues it's "warm bodies to do the work". A number of us who *are* "warm bodies" dissent, citing other causes. > > > 1) Bill Gates has a couple billion dollars > > > 2) Terry does not > > > 3) Having a couple billion dollars is a good thing since Terry > > > wants to invest in nano-technology > > > 4) Terry is doing something wrong. > > > > > > Terry: But, but having a billion dollars isn't as important to me as > > > finding good solution to problems, rather than re-using existing > > > technology. > > > > You are ascribing goals to me which I do not hold to be evident. > > Ahh, but I could go off and document your *extreme* desire for > nano-technology, and your arguement that the only thing holding it back > is money. This is an example of "the law of the excluded middle". It is an artifact of your use of a logical construct called "an Aristotilian mean". In both the book "Fuzzy Systems" and the book "Fuzzy Logic", this is examined in detail. The problem is that you have posited: IF a THEN !b To be equivalent to: IF !a THEN b Lack of 'a' does not imply 'b' simply because presence of 'a' implies lack of 'b'. 'a' is not *ONLY* 'the set of all things not in set b' You have established a false causal relationship by assumption, and then gone on to build a house of cards using it as a foundation. The false causal relationship is that, in this case, you presume that because he has a billion dollars, that Bill Gates *did* something *volitional* that resulted in him obtaining it. If this were true (which it is not, as I have documented by reference), then indeed, I would be "doing something wrong", if in fact my goal were the accumulation of wealth. That something would be "not acting volitionally as Bill Gates acts to obtain identical results to those obtained by Bill Gates". > Matter of fact, I could argue that you've argued for nano-technology > more than for ELF. This is irrelevent to the fact that your conclusions result from combining this posit with a false cause. This posit may itself be true, and you may or may not be able to draw conclusions about my priorities from its validity. Nevertheless, you can not obtain a provably true conclusion from operating a false cause upon a posit; this is simple boolean algebra. Alternately, you could simply ask for me to prioritize the two goals, and you would not have to conclude anything. > They are evident to many folks, in the same manner that 'ELF' is a good > thing. They are simply more important things to you to do than get a > billion dollars to spend on nano-technology that youd' rather spend your > time on (ahh, but we're making excuses now, and that's not allowed in > your world). This is called "crisis management". It is among the most ineffective techniques one can use in any priority resoloution process. I do not engage in crisis management, contrary to your opinion. Anyone who does is less effective than they could otherwise be. Suboptimal does not equal ineffective, but marginally effective is also a far cry from optimal. Yes, "anything which works is better than anything that doesn't", but "some things work better than others". > Priorities don't exist in your complaints, and neither do grey areas. > Live by the same rules you set for the FreeBSD project and start making > a billion dollars since you believe nano-technology is a good thing. > That you set priorities to other items is simply not acceptable in the > black/white world that you set before the FreeBSD project, so it will > not be acceptable to us either. Again, you are incorrect. It is you who are resorting to Aristotilian means... you are presenting a restricted set of two options because you blindly believe those are the only options available. You are excluding all other possibilities in order to argue for your point; that is logical fallacy. St. Thomas Aquinas tended to this technique; but good company does not ennoble bad logic. As far as prioritization goes: FINE. Establish a list of goals for the FreeBSD project, prioritize them however you choose, *PUBLISH* them so that people don't have to guess what they are, and then *OBEY* the priorities you have established when you engage in your decision making processes so that those processes do not appear arbitrary and unfair to the external observer. As for gray areas: they exist, but they should not drive your ability to categorize according to your established goals. Yes, this means abitrary assignment (or creation) of category in some cases. The appropriate action (promotion or demotion of an object on a fuzzy boundry) really depends on which of several processes you adopt. Personnally, I would tend to promote borderline cases to a higher priority, erring on the side of caution, and then only in the case that I can not create a new category for the object to prioritize it in between the other two categories. > Live by the same rules you put before others, or be branded a hypocrite. I do. My rule that I expect others to obey is "don't do obviously counterproductive things". It is *you* who wants a uniform definition of obviousness. Unfortunately, it's subjective, so I simply can't oblidge you... I can only try to educate you about things which I see as obviously counterproductive so that you, too, will avoid them. Hopefully, you will respond in kind so that I don't make "obvious" mistakes either, and the value of our subgroup will be greater than the sum of its members. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 16:21:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12598 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA12579 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA26149 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:21:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id BAA00713; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:00:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:00:30 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? References: <199701201859.LAA15819@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199701202114.OAA12450@fluffy.aros.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701202114.OAA12450@fluffy.aros.net>; from Dave Andersen on Jan 20, 1997 14:14:56 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dave Andersen wrote: > Er, no. Finger on FreeBSD 2.2 and later tries to use T/TCP by default. > I'd probably call this a bug, since it causes finger to not work properly > with the majority of servers extant on the Internet. Then you must know of an Internet where the majority consists of Linux hosts. Mind you, i'm using finger a lot, but i have only noticed a few hosts right now that hang (but haven't verified whether all of them were Linux -- i think another half of the hangers are poorly firewalled machines). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 16:21:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12640 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA12629 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA26162; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:21:23 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id BAA00722; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:01:53 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:01:53 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: jandrese@vt.edu (Nessus) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation References: <1.5.4.32.19970120201550.006be0b0@jump.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Nessus on Jan 20, 1997 16:37:46 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nessus wrote: > Excuse me, am I the only one who has recieved this message 20+ times in > the last 2 days? No. But i noticed that none of them came in while Terry has been silent for a couple of days. :-)) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 16:50:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA15735 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA15708 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA03575 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:19:57 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701210049.LAA03575@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Kernel driver source installer? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:19:56 +1030 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One of the things that has always bugged me about installing kernel drivers that aren't part of a 'stock' distribution is working out where to put what, and those trivial edits of files.i386 etc. So I've automated it (about time 8). cain:~/work/misc/kdrv>./KernelDriver add mdsio ./sys cain:~/work/misc/kdrv>./KernelDriver list ./sys mdsio : Multidrop RS-422/485 driver cain:~/work/misc/kdrv>./KernelDriver delete mdsio ./sys cain:~/work/misc/kdrv>./KernelDriver list ./sys cain:~/work/misc/kdrv>cat mdsio/mdsio.drvinfo # Driver Info file for multidrop serial driver driver mdsio description {Multidrop RS-422/485 driver} file i386/isa/ mdsio.c file i386/include mdsio.h linttext # device mdsio0 at isa? port "IO_COM3" irq 10 vector mdsiointr end excerpt from ./sys/i386/conf/files.i386 (while installed): ## driver: mdsio # Multidrop RS-422/485 driver # file: i386/isa/mdsio.c i386/isa/mdsio.c optional mdsio device-driver # file: i386/include/mdsio.h ## enddriver (no, it doesn't sort its entries) Would this be another src/tools/tools candidate? Any suggestions (add stuff to other .i386 files like options, etc?) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 17:14:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA17487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA17480 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA03749; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:42:30 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701210112.LAA03749@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701202359.QAA16714@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 20, 97 04:59:57 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:42:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > You're right that ELF is not precluded by these... yet ELF has not been > adopted; therefore there must be something else precluding it. Jordan > argues it's "warm bodies to do the work". A number of us who *are* > "warm bodies" dissent, citing other causes. Such as? Other than the "buried in festering spaghetti" argument, I think that "lack of warm bodies" is the only reason that anyone's raised that has any rational backing. > Again, you are incorrect. It is you who are resorting to Aristotilian > means... you are presenting a restricted set of two options because > you blindly believe those are the only options available. You are > excluding all other possibilities in order to argue for your point; > that is logical fallacy. St. Thomas Aquinas tended to this technique; > but good company does not ennoble bad logic. Erk, Terry, as a logician you ought to know better than to interpret someone else's conversational english as a closed definition of any sort. This basically sinks your entire argument; I for one read Nate quite differently to you, and I think you do him a disservice by that. > As far as prioritization goes: FINE. Establish a list of goals for > the FreeBSD project, prioritize them however you choose, *PUBLISH* > them so that people don't have to guess what they are, and then > *OBEY* the priorities you have established when you engage in your > decision making processes so that those processes do not appear > arbitrary and unfair to the external observer. These priorities have been published : 1) Have fun. 2) Do things that make FreeBSD good (this feeds back to 1) as well). As has been established by endless prior discussion, these are about the only two goals that mean anything to the contributors. You can colour the interpretation of 'fun' with money, percieved studliness, or whatever, but the basic shape remains the same. > I do. My rule that I expect others to obey is "don't do obviously > counterproductive things". It is *you* who wants a uniform definition > of obviousness. Unfortunately, it's subjective, so I simply can't > oblidge you... I can only try to educate you about things which I > see as obviously counterproductive so that you, too, will avoid them. > Hopefully, you will respond in kind so that I don't make "obvious" > mistakes either, and the value of our subgroup will be greater than > the sum of its members. In modern conversational english, you spell that paragraph "communicate". > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 17:22:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18318 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA18313 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA16846; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:06:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701210106.SAA16846@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:06:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: jandrese@vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 21, 97 01:01:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Excuse me, am I the only one who has recieved this message 20+ times in > > the last 2 days? > > No. But i noticed that none of them came in while Terry has been > silent for a couple of days. :-)) Is this a deduction of a causal relationship? If so, it is not appropriate. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 17:35:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18720 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA18707 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tippy (tippy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.86]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15467 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:44:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32E41D2B.5FBA@cybernet.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:34:36 -0500 From: Paul Cobb Reply-To: pcobb@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems Corp. X-Sender: Paul Cobb X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b1 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------4ACA52CE77782" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ------------4ACA52CE77782 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii unsubscribe ------------4ACA52CE77782 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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------------4ACA52CE77782-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 17:39:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18875 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:39:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA18867; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:39:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199701210139.RAA18867@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: That mail that keeps resending To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:39:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <32E4011C.7DE14518@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 20, 97 03:34:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: > > looking at the headers: > > Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG > [204.216.27.18]) > by ns2.harborcom.net(206.158.4.4) (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP > id RAA19026; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:33:36 -0500 (EST) > Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA25150; > Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:49 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA25117 > for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) > > > looks like either freefall or ns2.harborcom.net > > is screwing up (looking at the delay) > the Message-Id: header changes with each copy, as does the first Received: header. i believe the the problem is inside jump.net. the stopped after i added them to the kill filter. whenever they get it fixed, they can contact me directly about removing kill filter. Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA27405; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:45:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120214551.006bb254@jump.net> Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA28162; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:55:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120215551.006b2d18@jump.net> Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id QAA28883; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970120220550.006b0538@jump.net> jmb From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 19:32:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA23514 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com (lclee@usr06.primenet.com [206.165.5.106]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA23503 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lclee@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id UAA09421; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:32:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:32:17 -0700 (MST) From: Larry Lee Message-Id: <199701210332.UAA09421@usr06.primenet.com> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications Cc: lclee@primenet.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Lee Crites > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:45:04 -0600 > Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation > > At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about > >> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get > >> popular by having good products and telling people about them. > > > >Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). > > One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor > changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who > brought you edlin..." > And instead of edlin we have ex, vi and emacs. I'm not sure the casual user would appreciate the difference! Please pardon the interruption, I'm normally just a lurker, but you have totally missed the boat. FreeBSD clearly outperforms W95 and WNT on the same size hardware and runs on smaller hardware platforms. The basic UNIX commands are no more difficult to learn than the basic DOS commands and any UNIX shell is no more difficult to use than command.com and clearly has far more power and capabilities. Clearly there is more hardware supported on W95 than UNIX, but all the basic functionality is available and supported on UNIX. By that I mean that even though token ring or micro channel isn't supported, there are viable and easily obtainable alternatives such as ethernet or pci. I doubt that this is a barrier to FreeBSD acceptance. The UNIX install process is much more difficult than Windows and when it's complete you still don't have a fully functional UNIX system. FWIW I think that FreeBSD is far easier than NetBSD and Linux, but still way behind W95. UNIX costs less that Windows. I not sure that it does, since I suspect that there are more pirated copies of Windows and windows applications than there are official copies, but I'll leave it as a UNIX plus anyway. All you guys (not just the core team, but all the contributors/kibbitizers as well) have done a marvelous job with the OS, it's fast, efficient, layered, and reliable. No GPF's here. BUT Windows kicks UNIX's butt with good looking, easy to use applications. Not esoteric applications like ray tracing, but basic things like integrated word processing, database, spreadsheets, mail, and news readers. Netscape looks just as good on FreeBSD as it does on W95, but I understand that mcom is trimming back on the number of platforms they will support. Most people need basic letter, report, and documentation functionality. A few different scalable fonts, with bold and italic is all that is really needed. Spill checking, mail merge, inclusion of drawings and pictures would be nice, but aren't essential. I understand that wordperfect is available for FreeBSD, and if I outgrew a the basic offering I might consider purchasing that. Compare the appearance and utility of Eudora to xmh, Eudora looks better. Anything based on xaw looks awful, and the 3d version isn't much better. Compare the trumpet news reader with your favorite news reader, (I happen to like nn), Trumpet looks better and is easier to use. The world has gone graphical, but Unix still clings to its text based origins. I'm quite confident that somewhere, someone is still working on an ADM-31, but if UNIX continues to allows the needs of this user to prevent it from adopting a graphical interface, we will all lose! Several years ago I attended a conference in which Bill Joy was the keynote speaker. He described a layered system from a single vendor (Sun), in which the primary vendor supplied 'one good solution'. The importance of this is that a third party could choose a much smaller piece and replace (and hopefully) improve it. I believe that FreeBSD would benefit from that same type of bottom to top one good solution, such that when the basic system is installed you have one good solution to all of these needs. Which means that the basic FreeBSD installation should include setup of all peripherals and external interfaces, including X, PPP, ethernet, and most basic applications such as word processing. Most of what I'm describing here isn't on the leading edge of computer science or hardware technology and as such may not be interesting to the developers here, but unless you provide a solution to the applications that most people you won't ever be able to go head to head with Windows and put up a credible offering. Don't get me wrong, I think the FreeBSD team is doing great things, but if your goals are getting a larger marketshare or public acceptance, then any efforts towards multiprocessors would be better spent on installation procedures, word processors, and internet tools. Whether you do the work yourselves, or find and integrate someone elses work or farm it out to someone else doesn't matter. Having one complete package does, that works right out of the box does! Larry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 21:11:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA27288 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA27244 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19124; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:08:11 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:50 MST." <199701201834.LAA15733@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:08:10 -0800 Message-ID: <19120.853823290@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Articles of more than five pages should be required to come with an > > abstract... > > Abstract This has to be one of the more blatant subject hijackings I've ever seen. I think Joerg was talking about abstracts for magazine publication, not more pulpit pounding over our organizational structure. Since you seem to be so motivated to change things, however, rather than just advancing these byzantine and ultimately useless statements of the obvious (Readers Digest version for those who have fallen asleep at this point: "I think you're doing something wrong, my ``evidence'' clearly shows it, stop doing that") why don't you instead try and suggest practical solutions? You say we're too ossified yet you also agree (I hope) that quality control and not letting just any CS undergrad who only learned to spell "C" last month hack the kernel code is a good thing. What system would you propose in its place? If this system also involves that additional tools be implemented, an indication of your willingness to write those tools should the proposal be accepted would also be apropos. Otherwise, enough about the social organisms already. We don't need Darwin standing around arguing the evolution of our structure or its inevitable decline should it not adapt (the nature of those adaptations being, unfortunately, left undescribed). If you want to help, try to be more the practical engineering type who says "Well, I don't really know how long this thing will last, but if you put a little glue over there and erect a supporting column here, it will stand up for at least another 5 years." He may not have a set of clever predictions for where we'll be in 10, 25 and 100 years like the Darwin guy, but he can help us stay alive another 5 and that's all that really matters right now. Sometimes you really do just have to take care of the present first. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 21:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA27745 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA27676 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19150; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:20:13 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 MST." <199701202047.NAA16186@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:20:12 -0800 Message-ID: <19146.853824012@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > results. Quit bitching about the process and pay attention to the > bottom line, because that's what's truly important. It's rare that someone hands you your own reply on a plate. See above for an expression of my own sentiments. :-) As to the Linux/ELF situation, all you've proven is that you really don't understand what the dynamics of that situation were. You need to go to more conferences so that you can hear the actual implmentors explaining their rationale rather than just theorizing to yourself (and us) about their motivation. And yes, I go to Linux conferences as well as to general UNIX conferences and have met and talked to all the relevant players on both sides. > contribute however I can. I would not pilot the plane into the ground, > even if I had to turn in my pilot hat. We still wait for Terry to tell us which way he'd fly the plane instead and why. Your strong suit would appear to be in the realm of sweeping analogy rather than practical suggestion. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 21:23:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA27762 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA27756; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19179; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:23:19 -0800 (PST) To: Lee Crites cc: jmb@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:15:50 CST." <1.5.4.32.19970120191550.006bacac@jump.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:23:19 -0800 Message-ID: <19176.853824199@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor > changes) was this: "Windoze, the operating system from the same people who > brought you edlin..." Why have we all seen this message at least 10 times now? Is there a mail-loop somewhere out there? Can we find and kill the reflector? Or is this just Lee's machine resending the same stuff over and over? It seems strange that only HIS message has been replicated to this extent. Whatever it is, can we please make it STOP! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 21:32:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA28119 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA28114 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:32:27 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05561 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6551 invoked by uid 110); 21 Jan 1997 05:31:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19970121053159.6549.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.0-current port In-Reply-To: <199701201925.UAA21346@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Jan 20, 97 08:25:42 pm" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:59 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is anyone doing that at present? > I started out but ran into some difficulties/glitches: > > > 1) if.h in FreeBSD 3.0 has a struct member timeval something. > This results in having to include in front of every if.h > inclusion. I have agreement from FreeBSD-core that all include files should be self resolving. The solution in this case is to modify if.h and send in a patch as a PR. > 2) ipl.h contains a macro IPL_VERSION > > #define IPL_VERSION "IP Filter v3.1.4 - 10/1/97" > > which is used in mln_ipl.c in the MOD_DEV macro > top build some variable names (MOD_DECL). > > This leads to very odd names - uncompilable. I can't recall how I got around this one, but 7 months ago some of the FreeBSD-current MOD_* macros were definitely inconsistent. > 3) some clash occurs with the > extern struct cdevsw cdevsw[]; in same file > > It clashes with the definition of /usr/include/sys/conf.h: > extern struct cdevsw *cdevsw[]; FreeBSD uses dynamically allocated cdevsw's. imho ipfilter should not be manipulating the cdevsw directly at all (there are macros/ functions in the kernel to do this). Darren's rational (correct me if I'm wrong) behind scanning through cdevsw directly was to ensure free major/minor number pairs. > So far I have come by now but I'm stuck at the moment. Anyone else > got it to compile? Darren has recently been given commit access to FreeBSD-current in order to integrate ipfilter. From from my preliminary code-review there are no significant changes to be made appart from the addition of divert sockets (and my socket-credential code ). Hopefully we will see something soon. Cheers, Julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 21:57:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA29072 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA29067; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA19349; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:57:50 -0800 (PST) To: John Utz cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with WD/Phillips 9710 video and 2.1.6-RELEASE Install In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:02:04 PST." Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:57:50 -0800 Message-ID: <19345.853826270@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > suggestions or work arounds appreicated..jordan, if this is an > issue that has not come up before on the install, i would be happy to > tryout anything u can gin up. We can continue to hammer through 3.0 installs, if you like, since it's a lot easier to fix bugs in -current and then back-port them as necessary. I'll start another 3.0 release build tonite which you can then load directly off my machine (geeze, I really need a T1 out to my house or a fast -current box on a LAN somewhere :-). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:01:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA29211 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [207.173.16.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA29201 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (fluffy.aros.net [207.173.16.2]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.8.4/Unknown) with ESMTP id XAA00845; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:00:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fluffy.aros.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA26700; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:00:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701210600.XAA26700@fluffy.aros.net> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:00:30 +0100." Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:00:42 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Quoting J'org: > As Dave Andersen wrote: > > hosts. Mind you, i'm using finger a lot, but i have only noticed a > few hosts right now that hang (but haven't verified whether all of > them were Linux -- i think another half of the hangers are poorly > firewalled machines). Heh. Time to remove that foot from my mouth. The only non-FreeBSD machine I had locally was a Linux box. :) The other servers that I tested it against (in a fairly non-scientific fashion) were either strange little boxes, linux boxes, or firewalled. (But if anyone ever wanted to know if an eSoft IPAD box implements its TCP stack correctly, the answer is no. heh). -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:07:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA29435 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:07:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from becker1.u.washington.edu (spaz@becker1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA29430; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spaz@localhost) by becker1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW96.12/8.8.4+UW96.12) with SMTP id WAA22506; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:07:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Utz To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with WD/Phillips 9710 video and 2.1.6-RELEASE Install In-Reply-To: <19345.853826270@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan; mssr smith kindly pointed out that the problem may well have been a mighty &P)*(& poor choice for a cheap vid card, but nonetheless, it is still out there and people will buy it. So burn a new 3.0 and i will give it a try...hmm, but the fact that it does not work with my hardware may not be a valid data point. Nonetheless, roll another one and i will give it a whack. On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > suggestions or work arounds appreicated..jordan, if this is an > > issue that has not come up before on the install, i would be happy to > > tryout anything u can gin up. > > We can continue to hammer through 3.0 installs, if you like, since > it's a lot easier to fix bugs in -current and then back-port them as > necessary. I'll start another 3.0 release build tonite which you can > then load directly off my machine (geeze, I really need a T1 out to my > house or a fast -current box on a LAN somewhere :-). > > Jordan > ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:14:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA00517 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA00509 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA07919; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:03:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E45BAD.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:01:17 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Smith CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? References: <199701210049.LAA03575@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > > One of the things that has always bugged me about installing kernel drivers > that aren't part of a 'stock' distribution is working out where to put > what, and those trivial edits of files.i386 etc. you don't need to edit that... the file /sys/i386/conf/files.XXX is also searched for configuration XXX. it should also look at files.local but that seems to have been removed some time in history.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:22:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA00871 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA00863 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id QAA06435; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:52:21 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701210622.QAA06435@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: <32E45BAD.167EB0E7@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Jan 20, 97 10:01:17 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:52:20 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer stands accused of saying: > Michael Smith wrote: > > > > One of the things that has always bugged me about installing kernel drivers > > that aren't part of a 'stock' distribution is working out where to put > > what, and those trivial edits of files.i386 etc. > > you don't need to edit that... > the file /sys/i386/conf/files.XXX is also searched for > configuration XXX. Sure, but you still have to edit _something_ in that directory. The idea behind putting it in files.i386 is that you can then generate as many different configs as you like; the driver effectively becomes part of the tree proper, until you rip it out again. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:30:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA01167 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA01086 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA19484; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:26:22 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: imb@scgt.oz.au (michael butler), adonai@jump.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:59:41 MST." <199701202059.NAA16271@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:26:21 -0800 Message-ID: <19480.853827981@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > camp is still structurally a 5 pound bean sack, and anything over 5 > pounds donated will go to waste. > > The problem is lack of space in the sack, not lack of beans. That's complete and total BS, Terry. Send me $500K in operating capital for the next year and I'll show you just how cleverly I can spend it in the service of this project (a certain number of people would go full-time, that's for sure). Yes, I'm sure I should be out there trying to hussle up those kinds of funds myself if I'm all that serious, and '97 looks like it will indeed be the "Jordan tries to raise funds for more serious development" year, but don't for a minute tell me that it would all go to waste if someone donated the full-time engineering resources or funding necessary for making progress at a significantly greater rate. You don't know what the hell you're talking about when you say things like that. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:34:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA01326 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:34:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA01283 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:32:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA19507; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:31:15 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:18:17 MST." <199701201918.MAA15903@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:31:15 -0800 Message-ID: <19502.853828275@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If your answer is "yes", then the rest is implication and assumption > on your part; I am only advocating self-examination, and it's not > my fault if the examiner doesn't like what he sees. I'm all in favor of self-examination, Terry, but there ultimately comes a stage when you have to stop contemplating your navel, get up off your Zafu pillow and go to work. In all things a balance, as the Zen people say, and you seem to have adopted an almost religious degree of self-contemplation as a substitute for meaningful progress, which is not balanced at all. Get your face out of your belly for awhile and we can talk. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:48:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA01954 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA01949 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:48:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA19614; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:48:46 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:19:56 +1030." <199701210049.LAA03575@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:48:46 -0800 Message-ID: <19610.853829326@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Would this be another src/tools/tools candidate? Any suggestions (add > stuff to other .i386 files like options, etc?) Sure! Just make sure to make it general enough that someday it can be called from a front-end tool of some sort. *Grin*. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 22:53:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA02230 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA02225 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id RAA06656; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:23:02 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701210653.RAA06656@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: <19610.853829326@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 20, 97 10:48:46 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:23:01 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > Would this be another src/tools/tools candidate? Any suggestions (add > > stuff to other .i386 files like options, etc?) > > Sure! Just make sure to make it general enough that someday it > can be called from a front-end tool of some sort. *Grin*. :-) That's the plan; alternatively you could stick it into the frontend and call the subfuctions from there with trivial changes. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:02:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA02675 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA02651 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA19654; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:58:48 -0800 (PST) To: Julian Elischer cc: Terry Lambert , Khetan Gajjar , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:04:54 PST." <32E3FA16.237C228A@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:58:48 -0800 Message-ID: <19650.853829928@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > send me the first patch as soon as you are ready! Yes, I noticed that Terry was strangely silent on that whole paragraph of mine where I described his previous attempts at squirming out of producing any actual, usable code when asked for it in the past. Not that I expected him to come up with a credible excuse for his antics with Poul-Henning (or lack of response to John). Or would Terry like to argue now that submitting whitespace changes in lieu of filesystem patches which actually apply against any reasonably current version of FreeBSD was part of his overall strategy, and that it was up to us to simply *intuit* his intent from the form and structure of the whitespace changes? :-) Terry has been asked so many times to either put up or shut up when it comes to technical matters, but when we actually ASK FOR HIS CODE we find again and again that the emperor not only lacks clothing but defends his nakedness as a paragon of sartorial splendor, citing OUR lack of vision as the problem if we can't see the fine tailored stitching and gleaming golden braid of his outfit for ourselves. Terry, look, you're naked. Go home and put some clothes on, please! A naked hacker is generally an ugly sight. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:06:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA02829 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA02763 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA19696; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:03:10 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, jandrese@vt.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:06:57 MST." <199701210106.SAA16846@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:03:10 -0800 Message-ID: <19693.853830190@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is this a deduction of a causal relationship? If so, it is not > appropriate. "It's a joke, Mork." "Oh, that thing you humans call humor, Mindy! Arararararar!" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:14:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA03247 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:14:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA03242 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (ppp90b8.pppp.ap.so-net.or.jp [210.132.144.184]) by wafu.netgate.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08814; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:13:25 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.7.5/) with SMTP id QAA09997; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:14:24 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199701210714.QAA09997@chiota.signet.or.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: GLOBAL-1.6 for FreeBSD(2.0.5R, 2.1.0R, 2.1.5R) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:14:24 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, this is Yamaguchi. GLOBAL-1.6 for FreeBSD(2.0.5R, 2.1.0R, 2.1.5R) is available in: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/unix/indexe.html = (Don't forget this 'e'.) What's New since 1.5. o Extended VI support nvi 1.76. o An important bug fixed. o Includes ctags source code instead of patch file. o Generic Makefile is available. o Some files are added to install to other OS. If you cannot get the file, please send me (shigio@wafu.netgate.net) E-mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Global is a tool which find the locations of function definitions and functions references in C source files. It supports following environments. o shell command line o vi editor o web browser (You can see the example on the above site.) I think it is useful to hack a large project containing many subdirectories like MH, X or BSD kernel. [Features] o Global can find the locations of specified function quickly. o Global can locate not only function definitions but also function references o Global can treat a source tree containing subdirectories and you can get a relative path of object from anywhere within the tree. o Global allow duplicate entries. o Global can understand perl's regular expression. o Global can also locate functions in library paths if the function not found in your source directory. o Global can treat yacc file too. Please enjoy. -- Shigio Yamaguchi E-Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Home Page: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:31:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA04227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA04210 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:31:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701210731.XAA04210@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA224491795; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:29:55 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.0-current port To: proff@suburbia.net Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:29:54 +1100 (EDT) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970121053159.6549.qmail@suburbia.net> from "proff@suburbia.net" at Jan 21, 97 04:31:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from proff@suburbia.net, sie said: [...] > FreeBSD uses dynamically allocated cdevsw's. imho ipfilter should > not be manipulating the cdevsw directly at all (there are macros/ > functions in the kernel to do this). Darren's rational (correct me > if I'm wrong) behind scanning through cdevsw directly was to ensure > free major/minor number pairs. It manipuates cdevsw so that it knows the major/minor # and can create the entry in /dev itself (rather than rely on some script or human to do it correctly). Solaris2 has an interface for doing all this, and now I think FreeBSD does too (other OSes don't). > > So far I have come by now but I'm stuck at the moment. Anyone else > > got it to compile? > > Darren has recently been given commit access to FreeBSD-current in > order to integrate ipfilter. From from my preliminary code-review > there are no significant changes to be made appart from the addition > of divert sockets (and my socket-credential code ). Hopefully > we will see something soon. I've already got a .c to replace mln_ipl.c for FreeBSD 2.2 (and 3.0) but I've only got so much time.... Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:49:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA05611 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA05577; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by mail.futuresouth.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id BAA08339; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:48:23 -0600 (CST) From: Tim Tsai Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id BAA06380; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:48:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701210748.BAA06380@shell.futuresouth.com> Subject: open offer for DEC-21140AC driver To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:48:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We're in need of a driver for the DEC-21140AC-based 100mb ethernet cards for 2.1.6 and we're interested in paying somebody to develop the driver for it (shouldn't be too much change on top of the existing driver). If you have the expertise and would be willing to develop this driver soon please send me a quote. Also, if anybody else is interested in seeing this driver developed please send me a note and perhaps we can pool our resources together. The resulting code will be free. Thanks, Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 20 23:53:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA05859 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA05844 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au with UUCP id TAA24610; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:08:50 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: melbourne.DIALix.oz.au: seeuucp set sender to mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au using -f Received: from putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au [10.0.0.1]) by doorway.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09599; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:26:04 +1100 (EST) From: Mark Hannon Received: (from mark@localhost) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00469; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:41:03 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:41:03 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701200941.UAA00469@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> To: epamha@epa.ericsson.se, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@xinside.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: JUgqnNM4sgsAw2OLaRWqfQ== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I've been having a less than successfull time getting the X-inside > > CDE product working. > > > installation. X11R6 & local X-clients & Swim-Motif 2.0 are > > installed as /usr/local/X11R6. > > I wouldn't be surprised if the wide range of /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local > pollution on this machine (Swim being the primary candidate) were > causing interoperability problems. Since Swim is 2.0 and CDE uses > Motif 1.1, any mixup with the shared libraries would be very bad > indeed. > > To test this theory, I'd simply reinstall my XFree86 distribution onto > a clean /usr/X11R6 then add CDE on top of this and then either reboot > or run ldconfig by hand to rebuild my LD cache (very important!). > See if problems persist. > I didn't do that - I simply used the Xinside X distribution, removed the /usr/local/X11R6 from the path, ldpath etc and tried again. No conclusive evidence but no segfaults yet.... Regards/Mark PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in the next few days. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 00:02:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA06265 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (mail.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA06256 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:02:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vmb9f-000IFqC; Tue, 21 Jan 97 09:02 MET Received: by ernie.kts.org (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0vmadU-00001XC; Tue, 21 Jan 97 08:28 MET Message-Id: From: hm@kts.org (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:28:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701210049.LAA03575@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 21, 97 11:19:56 am Organization: Kitchen Table Systems Reply-To: hm@kts.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > Would this be another src/tools/tools candidate? Yes! There is definitely a need for a "pkg_add" at the kernel level. hellmuth -- hellmuth michaelis hm@kts.org hamburg, europe From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 00:15:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA06844 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA06839; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA24976; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:13:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701210813.AAA24976@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Tim Tsai Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: open offer for DEC-21140AC driver Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:13:52 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:48:22 -0600 (CST) Tim Tsai wrote: > We're in need of a driver for the DEC-21140AC-based 100mb ethernet > cards for 2.1.6 and we're interested in paying somebody to develop the > driver for it (shouldn't be too much change on top of the existing driver). > If you have the expertise and would be willing to develop this driver soon > please send me a quote. I recently committed an update (from Matt Thomas) to the "de" driver to NetBSD... and it should work with these cards: de0 at pci0 dev 10 function 0 at irq 9 de0: SMC 9332 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de0: address 00:00:c0:e2:7b:e4 de0: enabling 10baseT port de1 at pci0 dev 11 function 0 at irq 9 de1: 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.0 de1: address 00:c0:f0:16:29:56 de1: enabling 10baseT port Might try the NetBSD-current version of the driver (should have all of the #ifdefs to make it go under FreeBSD). Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 00:28:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA07330 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:28:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA07324 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00562 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:28:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701210828.AAA00562@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Request for Major Device number Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:28:00 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am getting ready to release a new video capture driver for Brooktree's bt848 PCI chipset. Can I get a major device for my device driver? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 00:38:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA07758 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA07748 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:38:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id TAA07121; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:08:29 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701210838.TAA07121@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: from Hellmuth Michaelis at "Jan 21, 97 08:28:48 am" To: hm@kts.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:08:29 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hellmuth Michaelis stands accused of saying: > Michael Smith wrote: > > > Would this be another src/tools/tools candidate? > > Yes! There is definitely a need for a "pkg_add" at the kernel level. Ok, I've just committed src/tools/tools/kdrv; please consider. Also, I really should have put LibraryReport in at that level too, but easy-import will only let you go one level down. I guess I should ask Peter to move it... > hellmuth -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 00:42:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA07977 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:42:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA07962 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA20329; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:41:27 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Hannon cc: epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@xinside.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:41:03 +1100." <199701200941.UAA00469@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:41:26 -0800 Message-ID: <20325.853836086@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in > /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in > the next few days. Yikes! No! There are very good reasons for them being there, most notably the application resource file issues. Believe me, we've HAD this discussion many times and the final verdict was /usr/X11R6 for all X related stuff. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 01:02:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA09008 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from superior.truenorth.org (ppp012-sm2.sirius.com [205.134.231.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA08999 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.truenorth.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA08351 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:01:11 -0800 (PST) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199701210901.BAA08351@superior.truenorth.org> Subject: ffs on ZIP drive (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:01:11 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: jgrosch@sirius.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ----- Forwarded message from jgrosch ----- >From jgrosch Tue Jan 21 00:59:33 1997 Subject: ffs on ZIP drive To: freebsd-hackers Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:59:33 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: jgrosch@sirius.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] I recently added a SCSI ZIP drive to my FreeBSD system. I've taken a stab at at putting a file system on one of the disks. The following steps will place a file system on the disk. * scsiformat sd2 - Takes about 7 to 9 minutes to format * disklabel -w -r sd2 zipdisk - The following entry is in my /etc/disktab. I've forgotten who posted this to the mail list. zipdisk|100 MB ZIP disk:\ :ty=removeable:dt=SCSI:\ :se#512:nt#64:ns#32:nc#96:\ :pa#196576:oa#0:ta=4.2BSD:\ :pc#196576:oc#0: * newfs /dev/rsd2c * mount /dev/sd2c /mnt This is all well and good. It works nicely but I have two problems: the first is when I mount the disk I get the following on my xconsole sd2(ahc0:5:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:28,0 sd2(ahc0:5:0): Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed sd2(ahc0:5:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB sd2 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry sd2: invalid primary partition table: no magic sd2: raw partition size != slice size sd2: start 0, end 196607, size 196608 sd2c: start 0, end 196575, size 196576 the other problem is superior# df . Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd2c 95343 1 87715 0% /mnt superior# It's bad enough that you don't get 100 meg that you would think but where did the other 7.6 meg go to ? I understand that some gets lost in laying out the UNIX file system but this does seem exessive. I'm sure I doing something wrong, any ideas ? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses ----- End of forwarded message from jgrosch ----- -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 01:16:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA09869 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from superior.truenorth.org (ppp012-sm2.sirius.com [205.134.231.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA09863 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.truenorth.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA08435 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:15:00 -0800 (PST) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199701210915.BAA08435@superior.truenorth.org> Subject: ZIP drives (again) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:14:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: jgrosch@sirius.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The other thing I have noticed about this ZIP drive is it's very noisy, electronically that is. The ZIP drive is mounted directly above my CDROM drive. When I am listening to a CD while reading or writing to this drive there is a lot of static in the earphones. Kinda annoying but I does give Husker Du that extra "crunch" :-) Josef -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can, monkey boy ! | FreeBSD 2.1.6 jgrosch@sirius.com | - John Warfin - | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 01:51:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA11018 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA11009; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA09873; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:53:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:51:29 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Darren Reed cc: proff@suburbia.net, julian@freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.0-current port In-Reply-To: <199701210731.XAA04210@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from proff@suburbia.net, sie said: > [...] > > FreeBSD uses dynamically allocated cdevsw's. imho ipfilter should > > not be manipulating the cdevsw directly at all (there are macros/ > > functions in the kernel to do this). Darren's rational (correct me > > if I'm wrong) behind scanning through cdevsw directly was to ensure > > free major/minor number pairs. > > It manipuates cdevsw so that it knows the major/minor # and can create > the entry in /dev itself (rather than rely on some script or human to > do it correctly). Solaris2 has an interface for doing all this, and now > I think FreeBSD does too (other OSes don't). Note thet FreeBSD has an array of POINTERS to cdevsw entries.. so an array can be sparse and not waste too much room. the cdevsw struct is in the source file with the functions it references, so those functions can be 'static'. (e.g. two functions can have the name "fdopen" and not clash if one is in teh 'fd' driver and the other is in the floppy disk driver. the major number is written into the cdevsw structure when it is assigned by the function, and it also has a spot for the driver name e.g. "fd". there is also a spot for a link to an associated bdevsw entry. sorry if that all looks too differnt to other OS's but I wanted to clean up a lot of cruft in teh kernel.. we have a way to go but this was the distance we could easily do without TOTALLY breaking too much.. the functions are: cdevsw_add() and bdevsw_add() and they are in (I think) kern/kern_conf.c (they can probably do with some cleanups by now :) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 01:51:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA11042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (seeuucp@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA11037 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au with UUCP id VAA08539; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:08:55 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: melbourne.DIALix.oz.au: seeuucp set sender to mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au using -f Received: from putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au [10.0.0.1]) by doorway.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA09775; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:37 +1100 (EST) From: Mark Hannon Received: (from mark@localhost) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00557; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:09 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:09 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701210909.UAA00557@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place Cc: epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: MVYRBC2Q6ukRhs9PYuxJYQ== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From jkh@time.cdrom.com Tue Jan 21 19:55:42 1997 > To: Mark Hannon > cc: epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@xinside.com > Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place > In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:41:03 +1100." <199701200941.UAA00469@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:41:26 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Content-Length: 405 > > > PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in > > /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in > > the next few days. > > Yikes! No! > > There are very good reasons for them being there, most notably the > application resource file issues. Believe me, we've HAD this > discussion many times and the final verdict was /usr/X11R6 for all X > related stuff. :-) > The app-defaults is easy to fix: setenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/local/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N:\ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N I'm sure you could even compile that into the X distribution if wanted. Otherwise what more needs to be done? xmkmf would need to be configured/cloned to allow one to use Imakefiles. I can't see any other reasons to not seperate the core X11 distribution from the rest of the packages. Regards/Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 02:02:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA11592 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:02:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA11554 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA09941; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:00:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:58:40 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , Khetan Gajjar , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Terry In-Reply-To: <19650.853829928@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > send me the first patch as soon as you are ready! > > Yes, I noticed that Terry was strangely silent on that whole paragraph > of mine where I described his previous attempts at squirming out of > producing any actual, usable code when asked for it in the past. Not my my, did we have a bad day today or WHAT? c'mon.. even JOHN (mild mannered reporter (hah!) for a a great metropolitan software consortium) saw that I was serious and that Terry DOES have some valid complaints about the Fs layering. julian :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 02:07:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA11810 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA11801; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:07:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701211007.CAA11801@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA256091223; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:07:03 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.0-current port To: julian@current1.whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:07:03 +1100 (EDT) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, proff@suburbia.net, julian@freebsd.org, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 21, 97 00:51:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Julian Elischer, sie said: [...] > the major number is written into the cdevsw structure when it is > assigned by the function, and it also has a spot for the driver name > e.g. "fd". > > there is also a spot for a link to an associated bdevsw entry. > > sorry if that all looks too differnt to other OS's but I wanted > to clean up a lot of cruft in teh kernel.. we have a way to go > but this was the distance we could easily do without > TOTALLY breaking too much.. > the functions are: > cdevsw_add() and bdevsw_add() > and they are in (I think) kern/kern_conf.c > > (they can probably do with some cleanups by now :) hmmm, well, the code I got passed replace some VOP_* calls and the cdevsw hackery with: dev = makedev(ipl_major, 0); cdevsw_add(&dev, &iplcdevsw, NULL); Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 03:37:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA14659 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA14654 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08918; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:36:57 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Hannon cc: epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:09:09 +1100." <199701210909.UAA00557@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:36:57 -0800 Message-ID: <8915.853846617@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Otherwise what more needs to be done? xmkmf would need to > be configured/cloned to allow one to use Imakefiles. I don't remember *all* the issues, but if you're really keen to test this out for yourself then I'd imagine that just trying to move over everything in ports/x11 will quickly show where the problems lie. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 03:41:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA14800 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA14739 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08933; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:38:24 -0800 (PST) To: Julian Elischer cc: Terry Lambert , Khetan Gajjar , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:58:40 PST." Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:38:23 -0800 Message-ID: <8930.853846703@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > c'mon.. even JOHN (mild mannered reporter (hah!) for a a great > metropolitan software consortium) saw that I was serious and that > Terry DOES have some valid complaints about the Fs layering. I didn't say that he had no valid complaints, simply that by all indications he had no valid CODE. Are you actually reading this stuff, Julian, or are you simply picking up on the first sentence you don't agree with and blasting back a reply before digesting the entire article you're replying to? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 03:54:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA15210 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:54:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ambient.ops.best.com (eporue@ambient.ops.best.com [205.149.163.115]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA15205 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (eporue@localhost) by ambient.ops.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id DAA00611 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:51:32 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:51:32 +0000 () From: "Eporue - aCid produCtions <1997> " To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: whee Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk whee From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 04:05:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA15697 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA15692 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) id XAA27815 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:05:42 +1100 (EST) From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199701211205.XAA27815@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: <199701210909.UAA00557@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> from Mark Hannon at "Jan 21, 97 08:09:09 pm" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:05:42 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in >> > /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in >> > the next few days. >> >> Yikes! No! >> >> There are very good reasons for them being there, most notably the >> application resource file issues. Believe me, we've HAD this >> discussion many times and the final verdict was /usr/X11R6 for all X >> related stuff. :-) >> > >The app-defaults is easy to fix: >setenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/local/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N:\ > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N >I'm sure you could even compile that into the X distribution >if wanted. > >Otherwise what more needs to be done? xmkmf would need to >be configured/cloned to allow one to use Imakefiles. > >I can't see any other reasons to not seperate the core X11 >distribution from the rest of the packages. I'd very much like to see that happen, but it needs to be looked into carefully. I think that to do it properly would require some not-insignificant modifications to the imake system (ie, the config files). The location of app-defaults is probably the easiest aspect of this to deal with. A little more difficult is allowing non-core libraries/headers (eg, Xpm) to be installed under /usr/local, and have imake-generated Makefiles (the only type that should ever be used for building X-apps) find everything. The changes shouldn't require any changes to existing correctly-written Imakefiles. If someone looks into this, XFree86 would be happy to include the changes in our standard releases. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 04:54:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA17978 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain-work.iafrica.com (khetan@chain-work.iafrica.com [196.31.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA17962 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (khetan@localhost) by chain-work.iafrica.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA07763; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:53:27 +0200 (SAT) X-Authentication-Warning: chain-work.iafrica.com: khetan owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:53:26 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: Dave Andersen cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Fingering other servers broken in 2.2 and -current ? In-Reply-To: <199701202114.OAA12450@fluffy.aros.net> Message-ID: X-Alternate-Address: gjjkhe01@sonnenberg.uct.ac.za X-PGP-Fingerprint: FF F9 1C B8 39 06 1E CD 60 4C E8 57 2D A3 46 E7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Dave Andersen wrote: > To disable T/TCP with finger, supply the "-T" option to finger: > finger -T user@some-non-FreeBSD-host Great! This solved the "problem", but I guess the problem lies with the Linux box I was trying to finger. I've just set the finger environment variable to -T, because the majority of hosts I would finger around the office aren't FreeBSD boxes. I guess I should have tried the man page first - it does say it quite clearly :-( "-T Disable the use of T/TCP (see ttcp(4)). This option is needed to finger hosts with a broken TCP implementation." Thanks for all the comments, guys. Now I know why I run FreeBSD - because of the great help :-) --- Khetan Gajjar [ http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan] I'm a FreeBSD User! [ http://www.freebsd.org ] PGP Key [finger khetan@chain.iafrica.com] UUNet Internet Africa [0800-030-002 & help@iafrica.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 04:59:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA18409 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA18378; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA02396; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:59:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id GAA22285; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:59:35 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199701211259.GAA22285@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: open offer for DEC-21140AC driver To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 6:59:29 CST Cc: tim@futuresouth.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701210813.AAA24976@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Jan 21, 97 00:13:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:48:22 -0600 (CST) > Tim Tsai wrote: > > > We're in need of a driver for the DEC-21140AC-based 100mb ethernet > > cards for 2.1.6 and we're interested in paying somebody to develop the > > driver for it (shouldn't be too much change on top of the existing driver). > > If you have the expertise and would be willing to develop this driver soon > > please send me a quote. > > I recently committed an update (from Matt Thomas) to the "de" driver > to NetBSD... and it should work with these cards: > > de0 at pci0 dev 10 function 0 at irq 9 > de0: SMC 9332 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 > de0: address 00:00:c0:e2:7b:e4 > de0: enabling 10baseT port > de1 at pci0 dev 11 function 0 at irq 9 > de1: 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.0 > de1: address 00:c0:f0:16:29:56 > de1: enabling 10baseT port > > Might try the NetBSD-current version of the driver (should have all of > the #ifdefs to make it go under FreeBSD). I tried Matt's driver back in October/November, with both the new SMC EtherPower 10/100's and the Kingston cards, and it works very very nicely. Unfortunately only under 2.1.*, it was not compatible with 2.2.* without lots of hacking. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 05:50:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA20543 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 05:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [128.173.246.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA20537 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 05:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA18505; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:48:49 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199701211348.IAA18505@goof.com> Subject: Driver for New SMC 10/100's To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:48:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I saw a thread with a patch and a couple of source code suggestions to make the new revision of the SMC 10/100 Mbit ethernet cards work properly, however, I couldn't get them to work. Is there a known fix for 2.1.6? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@goof.com http://www.goof.com/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 06:11:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA21624 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA21618 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA02542; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:10:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:10:37 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Mark Hannon cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Local X packages In-Reply-To: <199701210909.UAA00557@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Mark Hannon wrote: > The app-defaults is easy to fix: > setenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/local/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N:\ > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N > I'm sure you could even compile that into the X distribution > if wanted. > > Otherwise what more needs to be done? xmkmf would need to > be configured/cloned to allow one to use Imakefiles. > > I can't see any other reasons to not seperate the core X11 > distribution from the rest of the packages. It has been a while, so I don't remember all the issues, but I spent a great deal of time trying to separate the core X distribution from locally installed applications and I finally gave up. I think part of the problem is that the same imake files are used to build and install the distribution as are used to build applications. Changing the imake files to install somewhere else is non-trivial because the variables that control where things get installed are also used to find tools, includes and libraries in the X distribution during the build process. So, if you change things so an install goes right, the build fall over. Non-trivial imakefile hacking will be involved to get around this and after hacking the Motif 2.0 imake files to compile with X11R6, I don't ever want to see another imake file! However, if someone can figure out how to do it, I'm sure many would be *very* grateful; it takes me far longer to upgrade X than it does the rest of FreeBSD, and something always gets spammed in the process. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 06:26:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA22115 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA22107 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:26:11 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13040 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16547 invoked by uid 110); 21 Jan 1997 14:25:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19970121142553.16546.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: wdiff GNU word diff, compares files word by word (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:25:53 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Format: 1.5 > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:35:26 +0100 > Source: wdiff > Binary: wdiff > Architecture: source i386 > Version: 0.5-1 > Distribution: unstable > Urgency: low > Maintainer: Santiago Vila > Description: > wdiff - The GNU wdiff utility. Compares two files word by word. > Changes: > wdiff (0.5-1) unstable; urgency=low > . > * Initial release at unstable. > Files: > 95d1c1979b251fe7c200bb1379543d14 603 text extra wdiff_0.5-1.dsc > c5a8da767159f0714cfd9a8491d3df66 129337 text extra wdiff_0.5.orig.tar.gz > 451a7ce90ec637e423be2ebc2b1edaf7 2518 text extra wdiff_0.5-1.diff.gz > b50857cca1095036f07cf187ae4cb9ac 29238 text extra wdiff_0.5-1_i386.deb > > - - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3i > Charset: latin1 > > iQCVAgUBMuPRzSqK7IlOjMLFAQEbHgP+Kw+2WWBFoWlL5UTf5N19/dqRIN2rdV5k > QzN7BP/uW/8IayVjqdzg2DPrgFY2Dd0G4yPSjdUp5rzBlF3mLatSHDSIX4x6n2by > gqUAIyJ8FSTCereJZ51bgcvAHIX3Nsl1oP3DhQIEHrNk0MQ0idohFK1lpARGuuYv > z0HCDGolwyg= > =pRgp > - - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- New project for you, John ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 07:15:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA24290 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from toth.ferginc.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA24285 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com by toth.ferginc.com (You/Wish) with SMTP id KAA13756; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:13:30 -0500 (EST) Posted-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:13:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:13:30 -0500 (EST) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com Reply-To: branson.matheson@ferginc.com To: John Fieber cc: Mark Hannon , jkh@time.cdrom.com, epamha@epa.ericsson.se, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Local X packages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, John Fieber wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Mark Hannon wrote: > > > The app-defaults is easy to fix: > > setenv XFILESEARCHPATH /usr/local/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N:\ > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults/%N > > I'm sure you could even compile that into the X distribution > > if wanted. > > > > Otherwise what more needs to be done? xmkmf would need to > > be configured/cloned to allow one to use Imakefiles. > > > > I can't see any other reasons to not seperate the core X11 > > distribution from the rest of the packages. > > It has been a while, so I don't remember all the issues, but I > spent a great deal of time trying to separate the core X > distribution from locally installed applications and I finally > gave up. I know that this can be done. Under the Langely ICE model, X11R6 is installed in /usr/local/X11R6-26.1/ and _all_ other packages are installed in /usr/local/packagename-rev/ so I will check into this when I have time and see how they did it. -branson ============================================================================= Branson Matheson | Ferguson Enterprises | If you're falling off a System Administrator | W: (804) 874-7795 | mountian, you might as well Unix, Perl, WWW | branson@ferginc.com | attempt to fly. -Delenn From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 09:06:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA00148 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [38.246.139.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA29954 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from 38.246.139.33 (Kim.watermarkgroup.com) by watermarkgroup.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07819; Tue, 21 Jan 97 12:02:15 EST Message-Id: <32E4F67C.343F@watermarkgroup.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:01:55 -0500 From: Luoqi Chen Organization: The Watermark Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: My sportster internal modem doesn't work after switched to 2.2-BETA References: <199701172052.NAA09015@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > A few days after I switched to 2.2-BETA, my internal modem stopped > > working. It can still dial and connect at 28800, and can read correctly, > > but outputs garbage characters. > > Probably you are using the wrong parity. Check your parity settings on > the port, which are set by your communications software (ie: they are > not permanent settings). > After some poking around, I found that the if I sent multiple bytes to the modem, some would get lost. So I went to sio.c and changed com->tx_fifo_size to 1 from 16, and everything works fine now. But I am still wondering if this is a problem with the modem, or with the software. It seems that NT is doing the same, sending no more than one byte at a time. This is not a satisfactory solution, the output FIFO is underutilized and CPU is servicing 16 times more interrupts. > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. Thanks for your help. -lq From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 09:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA01832 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA01826 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id SAA01191 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:42:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id SAA04506 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:38:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.8.4/8.7.3) id HAA01743; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:46:01 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation References: <87680rr0vn.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 21 Jan 1997 07:46:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <87g1zvjzkm.fsf@localhost.xs4all.nl> Lines: 51 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 -0700 (MST), Terry Lambert >> said: >> > 1) Linux has ELF. >> > 2) FreeBSD does not. >> > 3) ELF is desirable >> > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. >> >> Item 4 is *NOT* the inevitable result of 1, 2, and 3. You've >> forgotten that ELF was *necessary* in Linux in order for it to >> get beyond a certain stage, and it's not (yet) necessary in >> FreeBSD. TL> ELF was *not* necessary for Linux to obtain BSD-style shared TL> libraries; BSD is proof of that. If you are referring to a TL> different stage than that, then I argue that the same is true TL> of BSD. >> Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best >> interest in mind. TL> If FreeBSD did not move to ELF because it was "protecting" the TL> best interests of its users, then it made an error. During Linux's move to ELF I was using it and very shortly after ELF first became available I converted my system to it (about one year before official release). I think that the move to ELF was not hard for users and I see not how it could have been done otherwise: ELF and a.out were available concurrently (and still are). But: Linux's move to ELF was indeed absolutely necessary because of the way that shared libraries were implemented before that. ELF was a big improvement for Linux: mostly for developers and for those who create distributions, but that is indirectly also for the benefit of end users of course: If developers have a hard time or start to hate what they are doing, then they won't be very productive anymore. As Linux had to go through using a different shared library format, they might as well go to a fully up-to-date standard. FreeBSD on the other hand does have a sensible shared library mechanism and does not need so urgently to move to ELF. It would be nice to have, but the necessity clearly is much less as it was for Linux. Personally I think it is getting time now, but I am convinced that in the previous 4 items, item 1,2,3 are true but 4 is not. -- Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | Trust is a good quality plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | for other people to have From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 10:05:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA03029 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:05:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA03003 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA02822; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:04:46 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:04:46 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: <20325.853836086@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in > > /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in > > the next few days. > > Yikes! No! > > There are very good reasons for them being there, most notably the > application resource file issues. Believe me, we've HAD this > discussion many times and the final verdict was /usr/X11R6 for all X > related stuff. :-) > Well, using null and union mounts we could hold the packages anywhere we wanted... And they would not even notice. Sander > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 10:41:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA04729 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:41:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA04724 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id FAA14689; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:39:43 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:39:43 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701211839.FAA14689@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, luoqi@watermarkgroup.com Subject: Re: My sportster internal modem doesn't work after switched to 2.2-BETA Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >After some poking around, I found that the if I sent multiple bytes >to the modem, some would get lost. So I went to sio.c and changed >com->tx_fifo_size to 1 from 16, and everything works fine now. >But I am still wondering if this is a problem with the modem, or with >the software. It seems that NT is doing the same, sending no more than >one >byte at a time. This is not a satisfactory solution, the output FIFO >is underutilized and CPU is servicing 16 times more interrupts. Which version did it work in? The sio driver streams output better than it used to. There used to be a small amount of dead time every 256(?) characters. Perhaps the internal modem can't quite keep up and its flow control doesn't work or you're not using flow control. Reducing com->tx_fifo_size gives flow control a better chance of working. Try other values < 16 for com->tx_fifo_size. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 10:49:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA05162 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA05135; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by mail.futuresouth.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA09565; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:12 -0600 (CST) From: Tim Tsai Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id MAA02780; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701211849.MAA02780@shell.futuresouth.com> Subject: Re: open offer for DEC-21140AC driver To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, tim@futuresouth.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701211259.GAA22285@solaria.sol.net> from Joe Greco at "Jan 21, 97 06:59:29 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I tried Matt's driver in 2.1.6.1 last night (after a couple of minor changes) and it works oK for normal operations, but when I try to access any NFS mounted directories it would lock up. Any ideas? I have a Kingston 10/100 as well as a NE2000 clone in each of the machines. I only tried the new driver in one machine (NFS client), while the NFS server still was running off the NE2000. Would this have made a difference? Thanks, I appreciate all the help from the BSD community thus far. Tim > > I recently committed an update (from Matt Thomas) to the "de" driver > > to NetBSD... and it should work with these cards: [...] > > Might try the NetBSD-current version of the driver (should have all of > > the #ifdefs to make it go under FreeBSD). > > I tried Matt's driver back in October/November, with both the new SMC > EtherPower 10/100's and the Kingston cards, and it works very very nicely. > > Unfortunately only under 2.1.*, it was not compatible with 2.2.* without > lots of hacking. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 11:10:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA06155 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA06150 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27042 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:10:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:10:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" X-Sender: ejs@harlie To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Narvi wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > PS It would be nice if all our X-packages defaulted to install in > > /usr/local instead of /usr/X11R6. I will migrate them over in > > the next few days. > > Yikes! No! > > There are very good reasons for them being there, most notably the > application resource file issues. Believe me, we've HAD this > discussion many times and the final verdict was /usr/X11R6 for all X > related stuff. :-) > > Jordan Is changing X11BASE?= to /usr/local/X11R6 dependable for ports? I ask this because I want everything that is unique to my machine to be under /etc, /home, /var, and /usr/local. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 11:17:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA06495 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA06489 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02820; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:15:21 -0800 (PST) To: Narvi cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:04:46 +0200." Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:15:20 -0800 Message-ID: <2816.853874120@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, using null and union mounts we could hold the packages anywhere we > wanted... > > And they would not even notice. Yes they would - their systems would be crashing constantly due to the fact that neither null or union mounts currently work worth a damn. :-) Seriously, there are a LOT of cool things we could do with a working unionfs (like make /usr/obj go away and/or change significantly) but after more than 2 years, I'm hardly going to hold my breath for it. Too many things need to happen first, like the Lite2 merge, and we haven't got enough people working on that right now to make quick progress. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 11:17:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA06517 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA06512 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA02779 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:16:49 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id UAA23701 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:16:38 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id TAA02751; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:54:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:54:43 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ffs on ZIP drive (fwd) References: <199701210901.BAA08351@superior.truenorth.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58.1-8,11-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2944 In-Reply-To: <199701210901.BAA08351@superior.truenorth.org>; from Josef Grosch on Jan 21, 1997 01:01:11 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Josef Grosch: > Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/sd2c 95343 1 87715 0% /mnt > superior# > It's bad enough that you don't get 100 meg that you would think but where > did the other 7.6 meg go to ? I understand that some gets lost in laying > out the UNIX file system but this does seem exessive. I'm sure I doing > something wrong, any ideas ? 8% of the file system size is reserved for root usage and while "1024-blocks" includes these 8%, "Avail" doesn't. 95343 * 0.92 = 87715 -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 11:35:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA07690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA07685 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from base.jnx.com (base.jnx.com [208.197.169.238]) by red.jnx.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA02898 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from base.jnx.com (localhost.jnx.com [127.0.0.1]) by base.jnx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29448 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:34:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701211934.LAA29448@base.jnx.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:34:30 -0800 From: Paul Traina Subject: rev of your de driver to support new SMC cards? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy To: matt@3am-software.com Subject: rev of your de driver to support new SMC cards? Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:34:30 -0800 From: Paul Traina Matt, Our PC chop shop just sent us a new rev of SMC cards that use the 22140-AC chip labeled: "DC10360A 21-43864-01" on them. These cards have no MII port but do have a FDX indicator light. Have you released a rev to your driver to support this type of card? Curious, Paul ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 11:41:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA08009 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA08003 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00330; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:43:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970121144017.00a8dd10@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:40:24 -0500 To: Peter Mutsaers From: dennis Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 07:46 AM 1/21/97 +0100, you wrote: >>> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:47:35 -0700 (MST), Terry Lambert >>> said: > > >> > 1) Linux has ELF. > >> > 2) FreeBSD does not. > >> > 3) ELF is desirable > >> > 4) Linux is doing something right that FreeBSD isn't. > >> > >> Item 4 is *NOT* the inevitable result of 1, 2, and 3. You've > >> forgotten that ELF was *necessary* in Linux in order for it to > >> get beyond a certain stage, and it's not (yet) necessary in > >> FreeBSD. > > TL> ELF was *not* necessary for Linux to obtain BSD-style shared > TL> libraries; BSD is proof of that. If you are referring to a > TL> different stage than that, then I argue that the same is true > TL> of BSD. > > >> Plus, the entire move to ELF was *NOT* done with the users best > >> interest in mind. > > TL> If FreeBSD did not move to ELF because it was "protecting" the > TL> best interests of its users, then it made an error. > >During Linux's move to ELF I was using it and very shortly after ELF >first became available I converted my system to it (about one year >before official release). > >I think that the move to ELF was not hard for users and I see not how >it could have been done otherwise: ELF and a.out were available >concurrently (and still are). Yes, but it was a nightmare for commercial vendors, because twice as many scenarios and versions had to be supported. If you're going to change, change all at once at a particular Release. Having twice as many scenarios to debug is difficult for everyone. The big problem with Linux is that there are too many versions, too many patches, too many options, and too few people running even close to the same thing. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 12:19:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA10096 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA10085; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA19524; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:17:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E523C2.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:14:58 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Reed CC: Julian Elischer , proff@suburbia.net, julian@FreeBSD.ORG, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.0-current port References: <199701211007.CAA11801@freefall.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren Reed wrote: > > > hmmm, well, the code I got passed replace some VOP_* calls and the > cdevsw hackery with: > > dev = makedev(ipl_major, 0); > cdevsw_add(&dev, &iplcdevsw, NULL); > That'll work.... you can also ask cdevsw_add() to ASSIGN you a major number and tell you what it chose.. (in the cdevsw entry) (this of course is most useful in the DEVFS case) you ARE adding a DEVFS entry for it are you not? :) otherwise people running on DEVFS won't be able to use it .. (it's very simple to use..see any other driver.. (and there is a man page for the calls in man 9) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 12:49:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA11881 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA11875 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id UAA16602 for freebsd.org!hackers; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:47:20 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:44:14 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:44:14 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970120193556.006be07c@jump.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At 13:47 17-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > >>> Microsoft isn't popular because of all the books that are written about >>> it, books are written because their products are popular. You get >>> popular by having good products and telling people about them. >> >>Or having mediocre products and telling people about them. 8-). > >One of the things I used to say (guess I still could with some minor [etc] I'm getting rather bored with this message. Surely I'm not alone in having received 30+ copies of it in the last 12hrs or so? -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 12:50:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA11963 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA11953 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA08515; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701212049.MAA08515@austin.polstra.com> To: David Greenman Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:42 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >3) ELF is desirable > > ELF is a bloated abomination that has numerous architectural problems and > is good at making things slower. David, I can't see why you're saying that. There are good reasons why FreeBSD still uses a.out. But I don't think ELF is bloated, or has numerous architectural problems, or makes things slower. Regarding bloat, it is true that ELF is more complicated than a.out, but it's not much more complicated. In my view, it has just about the minimum additional complexity to support arbitrary sections besides text, data, and BSS. Its symbol table is similar in spirit to ours, as is its representation of relocations. ELF executables and shared libraries generally use slightly less space than a.out versions. That's because in a.out, the text, data, and BSS sections are each padded to a muliple of the page size (4096), whereas in ELF, only the address space as a whole is padded. On average, each instance of this padding adds 2048 bytes. So in execution, a.out wastes an average of 6K of padding, while ELF has an average of 2K. In the executable file, BSS is not represented explicitly. A.out pads both text and data, while ELF doesn't pad at all in the file. The average difference there is 4K for a.out vs. 0 for ELF. For very small programs, the difference is larger. As an example, here's the "hello world" program in a.out: austin$ cc -O hello.c -o hello.aout austin$ strip hello.aout austin$ ls -l hello.out -rwxr-xr-x 1 jdp jdp 8192 Jan 21 12:34 hello.out versus this for ELF: austin$ elf-cc -O hello.c -o hello.elf austin$ elf-strip hello.elf austin$ ls -l hello.elf -rwxr-xr-x 1 jdp jdp 2776 Jan 21 12:36 hello.elf I don't know what architectural problems you're referring to. There aren't any in the object format itself that seem severe to me. I can't see that it's inherently slower to bring an ELF executable into execution than an a.out executable. Each requires 3 mmap operations, for text + data + BSS. For ELF, slightly fewer pages have to be mmapped, because of the lack of padding that I mentioned above. The runtime relocations and symbol lookups are comparable. The lazy binding mechanism is very similar. To me, the main obstacles in the way of switching to ELF are: * FreeBSD doesn't need it nearly as badly as Linux needed it, because our shared library support under a.out is incomparably better than theirs was. * It is hard to come up with a non-disruptive transition plan. * There is gut-level opposition to it because it reeks of SVR4 and Linux. These obstacles have to be balanced against the big ELF advantage: * The ELF language tools are actively maintained. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 12:53:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA12184 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA12178 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA19913; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:37:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701212037.NAA19913@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:37:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, terry@lambert.org, khetan@iafrica.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com In-Reply-To: <19650.853829928@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 20, 97 10:58:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > send me the first patch as soon as you are ready! > > Yes, I noticed that Terry was strangely silent on that whole paragraph > of mine where I described his previous attempts at squirming out of > producing any actual, usable code when asked for it in the past. Not > that I expected him to come up with a credible excuse for his antics > with Poul-Henning (or lack of response to John). You made such a number of factual errors that it was not worthwhile taking you to task over them. For example, you stated that I had not submitted anything that was accepted since the LKM system, totally ignoring patches to various FS components (like fsck and NFS itself), the "free inode isn't" workaround, and the massive init_main.c changes (which were my design). --- > Or would Terry like to argue now that submitting whitespace changes in > lieu of filesystem patches which actually apply against any reasonably > current version of FreeBSD was part of his overall strategy, and that > it was up to us to simply *intuit* his intent from the form and > structure of the whitespace changes? :-) Terry would argue that just because someone lives in Tucson and they want to drive to Salt Lake City doesn't mean that they shouldn't drive to Flagstaff: it's on its way to the right destination, and moves you closer, even if it isn't itself the destination. Quit bitching about my code when I figuratively drive to Flagstaff. I am well aware that the figurative Flagstaff isn't the figurative SLC, and I do not need your nannying to remind me of the fact. For the longest time, the tools used by the FreeBSD project were not capable of supporting concurrent branch developement unless you also had commit access to send changes to yourself, or unless you were willing to reintegrate changes on a weekly or even daily basis. I had the sorry choice of stopping all forward progress (which is independent of your opinion of it, since it's *my* forward progress) while waiting for integration, or of proceeding concurrently with multiple projects. I chose to do the latter. Now, in order to make the changes palletable to people unable to grasp the destination from a compass heading, and with them unwilling to discuss anything but what fast food place we should eat at when we get to the destination, I must make the journey from here to there in incremental stops. ...Only there are no gas stations for you to make incremental stops on the road to the destination. That is, intermediate code may include pieces which have no immediate visable purpose, and unless you ask if there is a purpose instead of blindly attacking the *perceived* purposelessness, you will probably not get an explanation. > Terry has been asked so many times to either put up or shut up when it > comes to technical matters, but when we actually ASK FOR HIS CODE we > find again and again that the emperor not only lacks clothing but > defends his nakedness as a paragon of sartorial splendor, citing OUR > lack of vision as the problem if we can't see the fine tailored > stitching and gleaming golden braid of his outfit for ourselves. Forgive me if I can't take 2 1/2 years of research and make it look palletable to you when you have divided trays with tiny little comparments in which you insist any meal served to you must fit, and you won't agree to leave the tray design alone long enough for someone to prepare a meal. You can't even agree on what a good design would look like beforehand; it's like blindly submitting an essay to an essay contest, only to be told what subjects are acceptable for discourse *after* the submission. As a specific example: The failure to even define what an acceptable build system should look like so that there is some reasonable assurance of acceptance of the work, after the effort is to be expended on spec., has blocked out at least two "warm bodies". And that's just one tiny fraction of the whole. I have the misfortune of having to work in several fractions simultaneously, and apparently "several" is an unpalletably large number. Define a happy meal, and I will ship you a happy meal. Define a happy meal, and Richard and all sorts of other people will ship you all sorts of happy meals. You will be swimming in happy meals, if only you would *COMMIT* to a definition so that us "warm bodies" could feel comfortable expending huge amounts of effort on spec.. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 12:56:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA12427 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA12422 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA19927; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:39:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701212039.NAA19927@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:39:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19120.853823290@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 20, 97 09:08:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This has to be one of the more blatant subject hijackings I've ever > seen. I think Joerg was talking about abstracts for magazine > publication, not more pulpit pounding over our organizational > structure. Please examine the "In-Reply-To:" header in J"org's posting. Thanks, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:13:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA13827 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA13724 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA17465; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:07:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA23239; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:50:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:50:14 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for Major Device number References: <199701210828.AAA00562@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701210828.AAA00562@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Jan 21, 1997 00:28:00 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Amancio Hasty wrote: > I am getting ready to release a new video capture driver for > Brooktree's bt848 PCI chipset. Can I get a major device for > my device driver? That's the end of /sys/i386/conf/majors.i386: 75 stli Stallion (intelligent cdk based) (gerg@stallion.oz.au) 76 scc IBM Smart Capture Card (ohashi@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp) 77 cyy Cyclades Ye/PCI serial card 78 gd Geometry disk So it seems 79 will be the next one. Since you need to #define it at the beginning of your driver anyway (gee, maybe somebody will write a devfs_next_major() some day?), it shouldn't be a bid deal to change this later. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:27:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA14708 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com (igw3.watson.ibm.com [129.34.139.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA14692 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub1.watson.ibm.com (mailhub1.watson.ibm.com [9.2.249.31]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA07562; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:59 -0500 Received: from hawpub1.watson.ibm.com (hawpub1.watson.ibm.com [9.2.90.32]) by mailhub1.watson.ibm.com (8.8.2/01-15-97) with SMTP id QAA03494; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:14 -0500 Received: by hawpub1.watson.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/6/25/96) id AA70203; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:13 -0500 From: kavitha Message-Id: <9701212127.AA70203@hawpub1.watson.ibm.com> To: tomy@gunpowder.Stanford.EDU Subject: WIDE DHCP Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Has anyone tried the WIDE implemenation of DHCP on FreeBSD?. I have an implementation of Mobile-IP protocol (RFC2002) on FreeBSD(verr 2.1.5). I have noticed that the WIDE implementation of DHCP supports the option, "MOBILEIP_HA" for acquiring the Home Address through DHCP. Now I want to test my mobile_ip protocol with DHCP. When I tried to run the WIDE implementaion DHCP, I'm facing the following problems: 1. First of all it doesn't compile properly. I think the line "#ifndef BSDOS" in flushroute.c (line no.142 ) needs to be replaced by "#if !defined(BSDOS) && !defined(__FreeBSD__)". as there is no "kinfo.h" in FreeBSD. 2. When I compile with the above modifications, while running it gets stuck at open("/dev/bpf*",O_RDWR) in "initialize" in dhcpc_subr.c with the message "Can't open bpf to read the dhcp messages /dev/bpf9: No such file or directory". Isn't it supposed to create the file if there is none? Or am I supposed to keep some bpf files in /dev? Currently I'm just running the client without the server just to see if it sends out any message. I'm stuck here. Also could you please tell me how to use this "mobileip" option. Nothing is specified in any of the README files or docs about specifying the options. Do I have to put the option in a file or something, from which the client will read and will put it in the DHCPREQUEST message? Are there any other commad line parameters that I will have to specify to include these options other than "dhcpc -d ze0"? Any info regarding this will be much appreciated. Thanks in Advance Regards, Kavitha From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:29:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA14891 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA14878 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA17989; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:29:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA23286; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:57:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:57:37 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jgrosch@sirius.com Subject: Re: ffs on ZIP drive (fwd) References: <199701210901.BAA08351@superior.truenorth.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Ollivier Robert on Jan 21, 1997 19:54:43 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > 8% of the file system size is reserved for root usage and while > "1024-blocks" includes these 8%, "Avail" doesn't. Well, ``reserved for root non-usage'' would be a more correct term. If you reduce this, performance will drastically drop if the filesystem fills up. The space reserve allows for an automatic layout optimization. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:31:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA15037 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from speedy.iafrica.com (danielc@speedy.iafrica.com [196.31.1.107]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA15020 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (danielc@localhost) by speedy.iafrica.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00702 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:30:45 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: speedy.iafrica.com: danielc owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:30:45 +0200 (SAT) From: Daniel Chalef Reply-To: danielc@iafrica.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry In-Reply-To: <199701212037.NAA19913@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello > FS components (like fsck and NFS itself), the "free inode isn't" > workaround, and the massive init_main.c changes (which were my design). I am sorry to add further noise to your list, but can whoever replies next please remove me from the cc list. I have no interest in FreeBSD development, however honourable the mission may be. I was unfortunately included as I was sysadmin for one of the original (non-FreeBSD) boxen. Thanking you in advance Daniel Chalef -- Daniel Chalef daniel@uunet.co.za UUNET Internet Africa Operations +27 21 6896242 finger danielc@speedy.iafrica.com for pgp key "he who dies with the most toys wins" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:32:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA15177 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA15169 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA20003; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:15:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701212115.OAA20003@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:15:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19120.853823290@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 20, 97 09:08:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Since you seem to be so motivated to change things, however, rather > than just advancing these byzantine and ultimately useless statements > of the obvious (Readers Digest version for those who have fallen > asleep at this point: "I think you're doing something wrong, my > ``evidence'' clearly shows it, stop doing that") why don't you instead > try and suggest practical solutions? Well, until now, people have been more interested in defending the current social system instead of analyzing it ("My Country, Right Or Wrong!"). This is actually the first time I have gotten a response to one of my requests for discourse. > You say we're too ossified yet you also agree (I hope) that quality > control and not letting just any CS undergrad who only learned to > spell "C" last month hack the kernel code is a good thing. What > system would you propose in its place? If this system also involves > that additional tools be implemented, an indication of your > willingness to write those tools should the proposal be accepted would > also be apropos. A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: 1) There is a vote server for the group 2) When you join the group, you begin accumulating "vote tokens" on the server, up to some high water mark. 3) Anyone can call for a discussion on a topic relevant to the group; this is done by phrasing it in the form of a resoloution 4) Discussion ensues 5) At any time in the discussion, there can be a call for votes to either make a binding vote on the topic, or to discontinue the topic 6) After the call for votes, a timer is started 7) Anyone who wants to can vote for or against a vote taking place; this vote does not take a token. 8) The call for votes timer expires. If there is a simple majority, a vote is initiated for the topic; if not, the topic is discontinued 9) When a vote is initiated, another timer starts 10) People can vote for or against the resoloution. They can "spend" up to 3 vote tokens on either side of the issue. They can not "spend" votes they do not have. The person who proposes the resoloution must propose it with at least one vote token committed to it in the case it comes to a vote. 11) The voting timer expires. Each vote token is counted as one vote for the purposes of establishing a simple majority as to whether or not the resoloution is adopted by the group. 12) The group agrees, by virtue of self-selection at the time they join the group, that all votes will be binding on the group. This is called a "Modified Swiss Democracy Based Private Law System". Possible preterbations which may or may not be desirable to ensure homeostatic balance: A) Initial membership entitles you to some number of tokens, credited when you join the group, with appropriate safeguards against repeat joiners. B) Idle timers to diminish the effective power of non-voters; of you have joined the group, but do not participate in a single vote in a set period of time, your vote tokens are reduces to some low watermark. C) Accumulation of "request for discussion" tokens to limit the number of discussions D) Simultaneity limits on the number of votes/discussions which may be concurrently taking place. E) Automatic adjustements to watermarks based on percentage membership of the group rather than arbitrary fixed values. F) Timer values. I propose 2 weeks for CFV, 2 weeks for V. G) Ability to change the value of your vote up H) Ability to change the value of your vote down (I would recommend against this one because of "market timing" phenomena). I) Disincent calls for votes by the caller losing the commited vote tokens even in the case that the topic was discontinued. J) Up the number of tokens possible to use on a resoloution to some number larger than 3. Clearly, this system would tend to self-squelch blusterers, and it would quickly become obvious who was or was not one. It would also give control of control over to the group rather than allowing the centralization on ossification of template control structures. It also does not have the obstructionist problems that the Usenet voting system has, since it is automated. This removes a lot of structural power from the hands of the core team, so it is unlikely to be well liked there, even though it does not remove their ability to be leaders by proposing innovative and technically superior ideas. If the ideas are obviously superior, they will get the necessary votes, at low cost (one token instead of three). If they are dubious, the vote cost will go up as they are more hotly contexted. People put their tokens where their mouths are. I would be willing to write the tools should this proposal be accepted, or help write them if I'm not trusted. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:45:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA15955 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA15945 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA20055; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:29:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701212129.OAA20055@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:29:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701210622.QAA06435@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 21, 97 04:52:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sure, but you still have to edit _something_ in that directory. The idea > behind putting it in files.i386 is that you can then generate as many > different configs as you like; the driver effectively becomes part of > the tree proper, until you rip it out again. Ideally, only the directory contents would need to be edited. . Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:51:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16395 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA16390 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA20084; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:36:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701212136.OAA20084@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: My sportster internal modem doesn't work after switched to 2.2-BETA To: luoqi@watermarkgroup.com (Luoqi Chen) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:36:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <32E4F67C.343F@watermarkgroup.com> from "Luoqi Chen" at Jan 21, 97 12:01:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > After some poking around, I found that the if I sent multiple bytes > to the modem, some would get lost. So I went to sio.c and changed > com->tx_fifo_size to 1 from 16, and everything works fine now. > But I am still wondering if this is a problem with the modem, or with > the software. It seems that NT is doing the same, sending no more than > one > byte at a time. This is not a satisfactory solution, the output FIFO > is underutilized and CPU is servicing 16 times more interrupts. Ugh. You need to look at the -questions archives for this one. It has to do with whether or not the UART is broken, and there is a specific list of "OK" parts which you should look for when you buy hardware. Sorry to tell you ythis after you bought hardware... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:51:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16419 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA16412 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmo6R-0000Fx-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:51:35 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Spin down problem back? Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:51:34 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running a -current kernel from Nov 24. I have just been able to recreate a spindown problem with my Jaz drive. The easy way to see this happen is to say something like: dump Bfu1 15000000 /dev/nrst0 /dev/rsd1c (where sd1 is my jaz drive). You get the following warning on the console, and then my mountpoint dies, and no further access to the drive is possible. If I do an ls -l /jaz before I do the above mount command (that's where it is mounted), it works fine. After the above command fails, the mount point is dead: ls: /jaz: Input/output error and I have to reboot. I'm going to try the latest kernel, but was wondering if anybody else has seen this. BTW, I get the following on my console (as reported by /var/log/messages): sd1(uha0:3:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 sd1(uha0:3:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:55:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:55:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA16611 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22750 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:55:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:55:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FWIW Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 8.8.5 of sendmail is out, apparently fixing some nasty security bug in 8.8.3 and 8.8.4. Since 8.8.4 is in the tree, we should upgrade ASAP. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 13:58:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16779 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA16772 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06337 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26429 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:00:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:00:10 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In Email, michael butler wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Terry Lambert questions: > > > QUESTION: Why has the interest been missing in the FreeBSD > > > camp, but not missing in other camps? > > > > "Good question. Anyone in the audience?" > > A lot of hype, near hysteria sometimes, resulting in factional outbursts of > near violent proportions (cf. "Linux or FreeBSD" in several newsgroups). That, and probably the "personality cult" Linus has inspired. I would suggest that there is a similar but smaller cult with Stallman. And the potential probably exists to form an OpenBSD Theo DeRadt cult. Jordan K. Hubbard, much to his credit, is not the type of person likely to inspire a personality cult....he lacks eccentricity. I'd also suggest that this personality-cult produces the same type of "multitudes of `worker ants'" force that you discuss. -- tIM...HOEk "The approach is in error; it is bad engineering methodology." - Terry Lambert. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 14:39:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA18667 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:39:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA18662 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03229; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:31:26 GMT Message-Id: <199701210831.IAA03229@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/netstart In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:26:25 PST." <22512.853763185@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:31:25 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone got any objections to the following lines in /etc/netstart ? > > Yes, the functionality is already implemented. :-) > > Jordan Oh ? Where ? In the ifconfig_$if file ? I realize that this file can do pretty much anything, but..... -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 14:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA18708 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA18698 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:39:26 -0800 (PST) From: jeffe@ichips.intel.com Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA29296 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx800.jf.intel.com by ichips.intel.com (8.7.4/jIII) id OAA00672; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by pdx800.jf.intel.com (8.7.1/SW1.11) id OAA26561; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:38:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:38:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701212238.OAA26561@pdx800.jf.intel.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Patches to support Cogent EM110 network card. Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The following patch adds support for the Cogent EM110 PCI 10/100 Mbit ethernet card to the existing de interface driver. All this does is recognize the new EM110 ID code and then uses the EM100 driver code. This patch has been tested and works on: 2.1.5-RELEASE 2.1.6-RELEASE 2.2-BETA This patch changes /usr/src/sys/pci/{dc21040.h,if_de.c} To apply this patch, save it in a file, say, /tmp/em110.patch, cd to /usr/src/sys/pci, and do 'patch < /tmp/em110.patch'. Build a new kernel and you're done. Jeff Eaton Intel Corporation jeffe@ichips.intel.com *** dc21040.h.bak Tue Dec 3 02:52:45 1996 --- dc21040.h Tue Jan 21 13:17:56 1997 *************** *** 294,299 **** --- 294,300 ---- #define TULIP_OUI_COGENT_1 0x00 #define TULIP_OUI_COGENT_2 0x92 #define TULIP_COGENT_EM100_ID 0x12 + #define TULIP_COGENT_EM110_ID 0x14 /* *** if_de.c.bak Tue Jan 21 13:30:49 1997 --- if_de.c Tue Jan 21 13:20:28 1997 *************** *** 1593,1598 **** --- 1593,1607 ---- tulip_21140_cogent_em100_media_select, tulip_21140_nomii_100only_media_preset }; + + /* The cogent 110 acts just like the em100, but the ID is different */ + static const tulip_boardsw_t tulip_21140_cogent_em110_boardsw = { + TULIP_21140_COGENT_EM100, + "Cogent EM110 ", + tulip_21140_cogent_em100_media_probe, + tulip_21140_cogent_em100_media_select, + tulip_21140_nomii_100only_media_preset + }; static int *************** *** 3255,3260 **** --- 3264,3271 ---- if (sc->tulip_chipid == TULIP_21140 || sc->tulip_chipid == TULIP_21140A) { if (sc->tulip_rombuf[32] == TULIP_COGENT_EM100_ID) sc->tulip_boardsw = &tulip_21140_cogent_em100_boardsw; + if (sc->tulip_rombuf[32] == TULIP_COGENT_EM110_ID) + sc->tulip_boardsw = &tulip_21140_cogent_em110_boardsw; } } else if (sc->tulip_hwaddr[0] == TULIP_OUI_ZNYX_0 && sc->tulip_hwaddr[1] == TULIP_OUI_ZNYX_1 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 14:57:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA19726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA19715 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:57:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA19365; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:56:24 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@whistle.com, khetan@iafrica.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:37:00 MST." <199701212037.NAA19913@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:56:24 -0800 Message-ID: <19361.853887384@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You made such a number of factual errors that it was not worthwhile > taking you to task over them. I often feel the same way. I guess it's not all just one-sided then. > For example, you stated that I had not submitted anything that was > accepted since the LKM system, totally ignoring patches to various > FS components (like fsck and NFS itself), the "free inode isn't" > workaround, and the massive init_main.c changes (which were my design). This was simply a mistake of memory for which I apologise, not a malicious attempt to deny you credit for code actually written. In fact, it's interesting that you bring this up since it proves, in a sense, that we are clearly NOT simply standing in the way of all commits with "Terry" labels on them as you have implied on other occasions. But let's move on. > Terry would argue that just because someone lives in Tucson and > they want to drive to Salt Lake City doesn't mean that they shouldn't > drive to Flagstaff: it's on its way to the right destination, and > moves you closer, even if it isn't itself the destination. Quit > bitching about my code when I figuratively drive to Flagstaff. I If you were simply going to the right destination by a slightly different route then this analogy would hold and we'd have little excuse for asking for different directions. However, that's really not the case here and I have it on good authority from those who've actually seen your patches (I have not) that this is not a simple matter of Terry deciding to drive off the highway for 10 miles and along the scenic route. This is Terry submitting patches in such a way that they are more or less impossible to review (unless you're the author, but then that's not much of a review now is it?) without more time and energy being expended that our reviewers have to spare. I believe that Poul-Henning has also offered you a complete machine to place your sources on, in their *entirety*, if the task of breaking the changes down in a way that others can easily follow is simply beyond what you have the time or inclination to do. If you are sincere about our requests for decomposition being the only obstacle, then I strongly urge you to contact Poul-Henning after reading this email and take him up on his offer. He has already stated several times, the last time being no more than half an hour ago (on another list) that he'd be more than happy to review your work even in its complete, unfettered glory if you're willing to put it up somewhere where he can actually get at it. I cannot see how a more reasonable offer than this could be made by anyone. > For the longest time, the tools used by the FreeBSD project were not > capable of supporting concurrent branch developement unless you also > had commit access to send changes to yourself, or unless you were > willing to reintegrate changes on a weekly or even daily basis. But with CVSup this is no longer the case and hasn't been the case for several months now, so I'd expect that you'd certainly want to avail yourself of the tools which this project has now provided for the specific purpose of supporting divergent development (among other things). You can keep your own branch in a single CVS repository and not have CVSup clobber it when merging the project's changes back in. If you need more details on doing this, I'm sure that John Polstra would be happy to explain it. > Now, in order to make the changes palletable to people unable to > grasp the destination from a compass heading, and with them unwilling > to discuss anything but what fast food place we should eat at when we > get to the destination, I must make the journey from here to there > in incremental stops. No, I have already given you two alternatives which would let you drive it all in one stretch with nothing but a bottle of benzadrine and a plastic jesus hanging from your rearview if you so choose. The offer of a repository machine for your work has been made. The tools have been written to support independant branch development in a CVS repository. Whether or not you now choose to avail yourself of these options is up to you, but please don't say you were never offered any alternative but a stop-n-go introduction of your work. > Forgive me if I can't take 2 1/2 years of research and make it look > palletable to you when you have divided trays with tiny little > comparments in which you insist any meal served to you must fit, Talk to Poul-Henning. Send him a tape or FTP the bits to his machine. We'll take the whole turkey or individual slices, it's really up to you. > You can't even agree on what a good design would look like beforehand; A good design for what, Terry? Since you're using food analogies here, let's say I'm a Chef. You ask me: T: "Hey, Monsieur Jordan, exactly how do you prepare your meals and what sort of planning do you do before you start?" J: "Well, what sort of meal, Terry, and for how many people?" T: "That shouldn't matter. Your planning framework should should be entirely decoupled from the nature of the meal since all dishes can be mathematically quantified down to their essential components, grouped by cooking time and the region of the kitchen you will need to prepare each type of dish, a time-and-motion simulation of the process also clearly revealing the optimum number of trips to the freezer and the order in which the components should be extracted. One you have that information, it's a simple matter to multiply the process demands by the number of desired dishes and cook the meal. Your inability to easily answer the question simply points to a flaw in your operational principles, and I strongly urge you to examine them thoroughly before you do real harm to your kitchen." J: "But people love my cooking already, the restaurant is successful, and I don't do any of that crap." T: "Ah, but consider that McDonalds is able to produce a Big Mac in 10 minutes or less while it takes you at least half an hour to prepare a 4 course dinner. Their product is also prepared at 1/10th the cost and they have several thousands restaurants world-wide, whereas you only have one. Ergo, there is something they're doing right and you're doing wrong, and it falls to you to examine your process carefully if you are to succeed as they have." J: "I must have a really sharp knife here somewhere.. No jury would convict me, I'm sure of it." The analogy may hold more amusement value than direct applicability to our current situation, but I think that the general point holds - your "solutions" are rarely practical, and often suggested for problems which (we feel, at least) exist only in Terry's head. I don't want to make Big Macs or own a chain of tawdry "restaurants" all over the planet, I just want to make good food for an appreciative audience. You want a Big Mac, go to the golden arches. You want a nice meal in a smaller setting with less patrons (far fewer of which, it might also be noted, are busily carving on the seats or the other customers) then come see me. > As a specific example: The failure to even define what an acceptable > build system should look like so that there is some reasonable > assurance of acceptance of the work, after the effort is to be > expended on spec., has blocked out at least two "warm bodies". Now hear this: Nobody, and I repeat, nobody is going to define an "acceptable build system" for you or anyone else. "Acceptable" in this particular context means "works for all our tools and solves problems which are unsolved by the current build system" (or there wouldn't be much point in doing the work), and if I'm going to do all the work of designing a new framework, verifying that it works for all the conceivable build situations and is architecturally sound, then I'm bloody going to go the rest of the way and implement it, no doubt to find other problems with my logic along the way - nothing else makes much sense. The definition *IS* a very large part of the work and expecting someone to do this for you is just ludicrous. That's why you and Richard haven't gotten anywhere with the new build system. Richard claims he needs carte-blanche with the build tree to do a number of unspecified and yet-to-be-defined things to it, none of which he's been willing to even put out for review. You want a spec to follow or some sort of "happy meal" in a convenient box, but who's going to do the work of providing you with all of that? And having done all that work, why wouldn't they simply follow through with it themselves rather that trying to wet-nurse another engineer through their design? Neither set of demands is reasonable or even constitutes good engineering, and were I to agitate for similar sweeping changes to the build system myself then you can bet that *I* would also encounter significant and justifiable resistance from within the core team until I'd truly explained to their satisfaction how I wasn't going to break the entire world or replace it with something far worse. The build system is one of those special examples of something which effects practically *everyone*, and if you're prepared to contemplate such changes lightly (or expect the core team to do the same) then you're not thinking very clearly, nor have you even shown yourself willing to explain it to *anyone*'s satisfaction. How could this do anything but fail? You also consistently fail to grasp the concept of incremental introduction. With very few exceptions, the people in the core team and commit list were chosen after long experience with their work, most of which started "small" and gave everyone an easy opportunity to look over their shoulders, so to speak, and see how well they did the work. You and Richard have never really given us that opportunity, demanding immediate entrance to the inner sanctum or nothing, and your own most significant contribution to the project, LKMs, came in a rather round-about fashion as I recall and I don't think that you personally oversaw its incorporation or have shown yourself in any way willing to subsequently work on incremental improvements to it at all. Is it any wonder that we have grave reservations about your being willing to work within a group? You have given very little indication that you even have an interest in such matters, and proving otherwise would be the simplest thing in the world. Just start contributing regular fixes and improvements and if you need a map, simply consult the PR database - there is more than enough material there to keep you and Richard busy for months, and if you're too good for such work then we definitely don't want you because closing PRs is a fundamental and very necessary part of this project's work and we all have to do it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:03:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA20178 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA20165 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA19852 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:03:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id XAA23577; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:26:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:26:43 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation References: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199701212049.MAA08515@austin.polstra.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701212049.MAA08515@austin.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Jan 21, 1997 12:49:42 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Polstra wrote: > To me, the main obstacles in the way of switching to ELF are: ... > * There is gut-level opposition to it because it reeks of SVR4 and > Linux. You forgot the most important problem, John: * There's no standardized way to differentiate the operating system type. I think this one always served as the show-stopper excuse by now... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:09:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA20660 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA20649 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA19477; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:07:05 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:15:55 MST." <199701212115.OAA20003@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:07:05 -0800 Message-ID: <19473.853888025@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: The complexity of this scheme mitigates heavily against its long-term success, as you might phrase it, and there are so many holes in the concept that I can hardly even begin to cite them. First off it's complex, so someone (you?) would have to write a FAQ and explain this byzantine process to each and every newcomer. There is also no clear picture of how these "tokens" accumulate. Over time? With commits? Because someone likes you? Who runs the votes and decides which matters are voted on? Voters also don't write bills, they just vote on existing ones - who writes the bills and takes care of introducing them? What if no "bills" are generated - does the project just idle along or are people allowed to still make changes? What sorts of changes? When is a change considered a "bug fix" and when is it considered something worthy of voting on? Who decides this in cases where there is dissent about the vote-worthiness of an issue (since there would be some overhead in writing and presenting the bill), do you have a vote on a vote? :-) Lastly, who do we get to work on the project when all the existing members quit in disgust over all this goddamn make-work which has suddenly entered their lives. Like most political systems weighted heavily towards bureaucracy, this looks almost plausible on paper but is virtually guaranteed to be an unmitigated disaster when put into practice. Try again, and this time with a grounding strap firmly attached please. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA20825 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA20820 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA19503; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Somers cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/netstart In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:31:25 GMT." <199701210831.IAA03229@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:05 -0800 Message-ID: <19499.853888265@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh ? Where ? In the ifconfig_$if file ? I realize that this file can do > pretty much anything, but..... See /usr/src/etc/sysconfig and /usr/src/etc/netstart in -current. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:21:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA21431 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA21425 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.4/8.7.3) id XAA00566 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:29:23 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199701212329.XAA00566@veda.is> Subject: reboot(8) and slow-dying processes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:29:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk reboot(8) is very unforgiving in that it only allows 5 seconds for processes to tidy up and exit gracefully, but there may be processes that need a longer delay before they are slaughtered as a last resort (for instance large database applications). So I was thinking of a mechanism whereby a process can assert that it might need a longer dying period. Such processes could be specifically tested for whether they are finished, before the axe is made to fall on all and sundry. It is unreasonable to assume that all processes need this service, since most have absolutely no use for it, and it would add unnecessary overhead. It is not really acceptable to have a separate program, let's say nice_reboot (and nice_halt) to deal with the extra work, although this could be hidden to some degree behind shutdown(8). I was thinking along the lines of using /var/run/slowkill/ (perhaps checked against process starttime in case of abnormal termination and subsequent reuse of the pid by some other program). However this is not an agreeable storage method since the directory would have to be world writeable and sticky, and this is a flawed idea anyway. It would be somewhat cleaner to flag the process in the kernel, but this seems like unwelcome bloat. As an altogether cleaner approach, would it make sense for reboot(8) to retry the SIGTERM several times (in similar fashion to the eventual retry of SIGKILL) and redefine the -f flag to mean "force" (i.e. present behaviour) for shutdown(8) and reboot(8)? This would have the advantage of needing no extra mechanism. What opinions do people have on the subject of this or more acceptable solutions? -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:42:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA22772 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA22765 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmppO-00009W-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:42:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Spin down problem back? To: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:51:34 MST." References: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:42:06 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Warner Losh writes: : I'm running a -current kernel from Nov 24. I have just been able to : recreate a spindown problem with my Jaz drive. This problem also happens on a -current kernel from Jan 19, so this has been broken for a while. To recap: Accessing the raw device of a SCSI disk that has spun down is now broken and causes that device to go offline forever. Think JAZ drive in spin down mode :-). I recreated this problem five times in a row, and I have verified that my SCSI bus is indeed properly terminated and seated by phyiscal inspection and reseating of connectors. No other problems on the system can be seen. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 15:42:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA22813 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA22804 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA133541 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:42:37 GMT Received: from slip129-37-195-184.nc.us.ibm.net(129.37.195.184) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smabIEDM2; Tue Jan 21 23:42:29 1997 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:40:50 -0500 (EST) From: Edwin Burley To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ---------------------------------- E-Mail: khan@ibm.net Date: 21-Jan-97 Time: 01:40:50 ---------------------------------- subscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:23:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA25305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA25272 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmqT2-0000at-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:23:04 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Regenerating just kernel dependent parts Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:23:04 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One thing I hit from time to time when I upgrade my kernel w/o upgrading the rest of my system is that I'll get warnings or errors from ps, pstat, et al. I know that these warnings are the results of changes to the kernel data structures, and am not complaining about that per se. What I'd like is some easy way to rebuild all of these programs so that I might be able to, say, cd /usr/src/kmem ; make all install and have them all be updated. Is there a canonical list of these programs somewhere? Is this easy to generate? I'm somewhat loath to upgrade my whole system due to the recent utmp/wtmp changes that I don't have all the right binaries for (my X world works and I'm loath to mess with it :-)... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:26:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA25893 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:26:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA25874 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:26:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmqWF-0000dU-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:26:23 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cannot fork Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:26:23 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How to I get rid of the cannot fork messages? I have maxusers set to be 30 for my 486 box, yet I still get these messages from time to time. I just upgraded from Nov 24 -current to Jan 19-current and have found that the number of times I'm hitting this seems to be much greater. I had a build of ispell going, an emacs window and a find | xargs egrep from another xterm. Plus twm and xclock. This shouldn't run me out of process slots (ps auxww | wc said 50, a surprising round number). Any ideas on how I might track down this problem? I'm rebuilding my kernel now with MAX_CHILDREN set to be 256 rather than whatever the default is. We'll see if that is the problem. Over time I keep bumping limits and I'm fine for a while, but after a while I start to hit the cannot fork messages again. Thanks for any help you might be able to render in my endevors... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:31:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA26499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA26492 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmqag-0000hf-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:30:58 -0700 To: Tim Vanderhoek Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:00:10 EST." References: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:30:58 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Tim Vanderhoek writes: : Jordan K. : Hubbard, much to his credit, is not the type of person likely to inspire : a personality cult....he lacks eccentricity. Hmmmm, how can you possibly say this about a man who lives (or lived) with 27 cats? :-) :-) :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:38:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA26881 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA26872 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.23]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00098; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:37:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01853; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:37:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: professor.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:37:45 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701212115.OAA20003@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: This would so overcomplicate things that you would virtually guarantee no new members joining FreeBSD. Word of this would get around, most likely with appropriate scare stories, and folks would avoid the groups like they were plagued. It wouldn't matter if this actually was workable or not, the perception of thought police would be too strong. > > 1) There is a vote server for the group > 2) When you join the group, you begin accumulating "vote tokens" > on the server, up to some high water mark. > 3) Anyone can call for a discussion on a topic relevant to > the group; this is done by phrasing it in the form of > a resoloution > 4) Discussion ensues > 5) At any time in the discussion, there can be a call for votes > to either make a binding vote on the topic, or to discontinue > the topic > 6) After the call for votes, a timer is started > 7) Anyone who wants to can vote for or against a vote taking > place; this vote does not take a token. > 8) The call for votes timer expires. If there is a simple > majority, a vote is initiated for the topic; if not, the > topic is discontinued > 9) When a vote is initiated, another timer starts > 10) People can vote for or against the resoloution. They can > "spend" up to 3 vote tokens on either side of the issue. > They can not "spend" votes they do not have. The person who > proposes the resoloution must propose it with at least one > vote token committed to it in the case it comes to a vote. > 11) The voting timer expires. Each vote token is counted as > one vote for the purposes of establishing a simple majority > as to whether or not the resoloution is adopted by the group. > 12) The group agrees, by virtue of self-selection at the time > they join the group, that all votes will be binding on the > group. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:46:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA27322 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA27302 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA09939; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:15:26 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701220045.LAA09939@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: <199701212129.OAA20055@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 21, 97 02:29:27 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:15:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > Sure, but you still have to edit _something_ in that directory. The idea > > behind putting it in files.i386 is that you can then generate as many > > different configs as you like; the driver effectively becomes part of > > the tree proper, until you rip it out again. > > Ideally, only the directory contents would need to be edited. . Nowere near good enough, Terry. Try "you should be able to build the driver standalone, throw it into the kernel's linkage path and reboot". But while I'm thinking and trying to work in that direction, it's nowhere near reality, and that's what I have to deal with at the moment, hence a script that reflects reality rather than some unrealised ideal. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:53:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA27694 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA27687 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA27417 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:52:36 -0800 Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05471; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:21:21 GMT Message-Id: <199701212321.XAA05471@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipdivert & masqd In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:29:18 PST." <199701202129.NAA12394@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:21:21 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Well, as a start to "masqd", I've written a filter that doesn nothing. It > > receives a packet, outputs bits of info, then inserts it back into the IP > > stream (after fixing the IP checksum if it's an "in" packet). > > > > Works fine for tcp connections (telnet at least) & udp (NFS at least), but > > only half-works for ICMP. It gets the incoming ICMP (ping), fixes the sum > > and does the sendto(), but never sees the reply. The reply is received by > > the sender though..... > > What do your ipfw rules look like while masqd is running? > > -Archie Not that interesting... The machines in question are 10.0.1.3 and 10.0.1.254. The 254 machine is doing the 'divert's. /sbin/ipfw -f flush /sbin/ipfw add 100 divert 6668 all from 10.0.1.3 to 10.0.1.254 /sbin/ipfw add 100 divert 6668 all from 10.0.1.254 to 10.0.1.3 /sbin/ipfw add 65000 pass all from any to any -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 16:53:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA27727 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA27722 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA27526 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:02 -0800 Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05457; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:16:15 GMT Message-Id: <199701212316.XAA05457@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Matthew A. Gessner" Cc: hackers Subject: Re: ppp alias under 2.1.5 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:53:26 EST." <199701201947.OAA27104@home.winc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:16:14 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [.....] > I've attached the ppp.conf files from two machines: inetgw and voyager. > If someone could point out to me why packets AREN'T being forwarded from > tun1 to tun0 and what I need to change, I'd appreciate it. The only thing > I found that works is to create a route after ppp is logged in (say I want > to go from voyager (10.0.0.133) to home.winc.com (204.178.182.2) through > inetgw (10.0.0.4): I have to do route add 204.178.182.2 10.0.0.4) and then > I can ping it. But that doesn't do me a lot of good). [.....] > # > # Begin inetgw ppp.conf > # [.....] > wincppp: [.....] > set ifaddr 204.178.182.134 204.178.182.20 [.....] > dialup: [.....] > set ifaddr 0.0.0.0/24 10.0.0.3/24 255.255.255.0 [.....] > # > # Begin inetgw ppp.linkup > # > 204.178.182.134: > add 0 0 HISADDR > 10.0.0.133: > add 0 0 HISADDR [.....] > # > # Begin voyager ppp.conf > # [.....] > serial: [.....] > set ifaddr 10.0.0.133 10.0.0.4/24 255.255.255.0 [.....] > # > # Begin voyager ppp.linkup > # > MYADDR: > add 0 0 HISADDR [.....] The only problem I see is that you're attempting to add two default routes in inetgw:ppp.linkup - When 10.133 establishes the connection, it gets the default and inetgw sees no point in sending packets back where they came from. Try removing the 10.0.0.133 entry from inetgw:ppp.linkup - it's not required. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA28545 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA28531 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA20475; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:47:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220047.RAA20475@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:47:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19473.853888025@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 03:07:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > The complexity of this scheme mitigates heavily against its long-term > success, as you might phrase it, and there are so many holes in the > concept that I can hardly even begin to cite them. First off it's > complex, so someone (you?) would have to write a FAQ and explain this > byzantine process to each and every newcomer. It's not complex. I've described the process in abstract; it only *looks* complex, it doesn't *act* complex. > There is also no clear > picture of how these "tokens" accumulate. Over time? With commits? > Because someone likes you? Over time at an equal rate for everyone, I would hope. I assume the core team will decide on initial parameters as part of the process of moving to the system. > Who runs the votes A program. > and decides which matters are voted on? Anyone with vote tokens left and an interest in the discussion. > Voters also don't write bills, they just vote on existing ones - who > writes the bills and takes care of introducing them? What if no > "bills" are generated - does the project just idle along or are people > allowed to still make changes? What sorts of changes? All changes involving dissenting opinions. Again, the core team is who you should be asking this question, since you are really asking "how much control is the core team giving away?". > When is a change considered a "bug fix" and when is it considered > something worthy of voting on? It doesn't matter if its a "bug fix" or not. It's worthy of voting on when the discussion results in a call for votes. If it doesn't, it wasn't worth voting on. > Who decides this in cases where there is dissent about the > vote-worthiness of an issue (since there would be some overhead > in writing and presenting the bill), do you have a vote on a vote? :-) Yes. Simple majority on whether it's vote-worthy. > Lastly, who do we get to work on the project when all the existing > members quit in disgust over all this goddamn make-work which has > suddenly entered their lives. ??? All this would do is add latency *and a means of resolving* hotly contested issues. Right now, hotly contested issues are tabled and/or ignored. This is an improvement. > Like most political systems weighted heavily towards bureaucracy, this > looks almost plausible on paper but is virtually guaranteed to be an > unmitigated disaster when put into practice. This system is weighted *against* bureaucracy, since obstructionist tactics would only result in you spending all your tokens and having to shut up while everyone else made progress without you. That's the point of users having a limited amount of tokens. > Try again, and this time with a grounding strap firmly attached > please. Example: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VoteBot Subject: TOPIC: ELF Freddy Kruger (Kruger@ElmStreet.org) has submitted the following policy topic for discussion: > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ... various amounts of discussion for 5 days ... ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VoteBot Subject: TOPIC: ELF This is the votebot. This discussion has lasted 5 days; if there is no call for votes by February 8th, 1997 (within the next 2 days), this policy topic will automatically become FreeBSD policy. To call for votes, send a message with the subject "POLL: ELF" to votebot@freebsd.org -- VOTEBOT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ... heated last-ditch opposition ... ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VoteBot Subject: POLL: ELF This is the votebot. A vote has been requested for: > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF Place an [x] in the appropriate box and reply to this message: [ ] Yes, there should be a vote [ ] No, there should not be a vote All responses will be totalled on February 21st, 1997 (7 days from now); if there are more "Yes" responses than "No" responses, a vote will be taken, If there are more "No" responses, then the discussion will be reopened. -- VOTEBOT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ... more discussion ... ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VoteBot Subject: VOTE: ELF This is votebot. The proposal to vote on the resoloution: > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF Has passed, 452 to 173. To participate in the vote, place an [x] in the appropriate box and reply to this message: [ ] Yes, very strongly agree (3 vote tokens) [ ] Yes, strongly agree (2 vote tokens) [ ] Yes, agree (1 vote tokens) [ ] No, disagree (1 vote tokens) [ ] No, strongly disagree (2 vote tokens) [ ] No, very strongly disagree (3 vote tokens) -- VOTEBOT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ... ongoing voting ... ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VoteBot Subject: VOTE PASSED: ELF The resolution: > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF Has passed 1170 to 490 with 621 people voting. The resolution has been automatically added to the FreeBSD policy page, which may be viewed at www.freebsd.org/policy -- VOTEBOT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:07:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA28683 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA28671 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:07:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA20491; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:51:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220051.RAA20491@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:51:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701220045.LAA09939@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 22, 97 11:15:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Sure, but you still have to edit _something_ in that directory. The idea > > > behind putting it in files.i386 is that you can then generate as many > > > different configs as you like; the driver effectively becomes part of > > > the tree proper, until you rip it out again. > > > > Ideally, only the directory contents would need to be edited. . > > Nowere near good enough, Terry. Try "you should be able to build the > driver standalone, throw it into the kernel's linkage path and > reboot". Uh, why should you have to reboot? The act of placing the driver object in the directory should place it in your kernel... > But while I'm thinking and trying to work in that direction, it's > nowhere near reality, and that's what I have to deal with at the moment, > hence a script that reflects reality rather than some unrealised ideal. If you keep making these things easy without a real soloution, where is the "squeaky wheel" incentive for a real soloution? 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:09:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA28937 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA28929 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA17027; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:09:32 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Path: not-for-mail From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Date: 21 Jan 1997 17:09:31 -0800 Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Lines: 15 Distribution: local Message-ID: <5c3pcb$gk0@austin.polstra.com> References: <199701201752.KAA15603@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199701212049.MAA08515@austin.polstra.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I want to correct a false statement I made in my previous post. I wrote: > So in execution, a.out wastes an average of 6K of padding, while > ELF has an average of 2K. I realized later that this is not true. ELF double-maps the page containing the boundary between text and data. That wastes a page (4K), making ELF's memory usage in execution the same on average as that of a.out. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:13:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA29202 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA29196 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:13:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA10407; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:41:45 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701220111.LAA10407@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: <199701220051.RAA20491@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 21, 97 05:51:39 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:41:44 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > > Nowere near good enough, Terry. Try "you should be able to build the > > driver standalone, throw it into the kernel's linkage path and > > reboot". > > Uh, why should you have to reboot? The act of placing the driver object > in the directory should place it in your kernel... I'm assuming ISA isn't going to evaporate overnight. Probing for ISA devices on a running system is akin to pissing on an electric fence. > > But while I'm thinking and trying to work in that direction, it's > > nowhere near reality, and that's what I have to deal with at the moment, > > hence a script that reflects reality rather than some unrealised ideal. > > If you keep making these things easy without a real soloution, > where is the "squeaky wheel" incentive for a real soloution? 8-) 8-). I thought your position was self-evident? > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:25:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA00229 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA00224 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01049; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:22:23 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:47:47 MST." <199701220047.RAA20475@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:22:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1045.853896142@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's not complex. I've described the process in abstract; it only > *looks* complex, it doesn't *act* complex. Hmmm. I remain skeptical, but for the purposes of argument... :-) > > Voters also don't write bills, they just vote on existing ones - who > > writes the bills and takes care of introducing them? What if no > > "bills" are generated - does the project just idle along or are people > > allowed to still make changes? What sorts of changes? > > All changes involving dissenting opinions. Again, the core team is > who you should be asking this question, since you are really asking > "how much control is the core team giving away?". I think you're working from a misperception. The core team doesn't spend its time sitting around rubbing its collective hands together and going "Mooohahahaha! POWER!" so it's not likely to consider this in terms of power loss so much as it is in terms of how much workload is generated. From that perspective, it's still an open question as to who's going to draft bills for the system and what happens if everybody decides that drafting bills is too much work and they'd prefer to simply argue in the existing mailing lists (and there are many oblique ways of arguing a point which make it easy to claim later that you weren't attempting to circumnavigate the vote system at all). But that doesn't even raise the biggest issue, which is: > Freddy Kruger (Kruger@ElmStreet.org) has submitted the > following policy topic for discussion: > > > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [ ... various amounts of discussion for 5 days ... ] Freddy raises the issue and 10 people vote on it, 7 feeling ELF-ish enough that the motion "passes." Now what? We've got this as a supposed piece of "FreeBSD Policy" now and users will surely expect it to be implemented or there wouldn't be much point in the policy or the vote, but who's going to do the work? The 7 voters? Does that mean that in order to vote "yes" you also have to be willing to do the work? I'd say most definitely yes to that since a vote without the rocks to back it up is rather worthless (Judge: "Have you reached a verdict?" "Yes, we the jury find the proposal good and would like someone to implement it." Judge: "Who?" Jury: "Uh, just someone. Hey, all you asked us to do was vote on it, remember?"). So now the question is, if it takes a committment to actually implement a proposal in order to vote, are people going to jump up and vote all that much? If it doesn't take a comittment, what's to stop the peanut gallery from using up their votes on things which will never get implemented since there are no actual volunteers committed to doing the work? And what about a No vote? Do you have to be willing to make a counter-proposal or somehow balance your "no" in a meaningful way or do the "no's" become stronger than "yesses" since it's a lot more easy now to shoot something down than vote for it and get stuck actually doing it. I don't know, I still think the exception cases outnumber the rules at this point, and with enough ambiguity still left over to choke a wooly mammoth. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01691 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA01661 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:44:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA01654 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:38:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:38:02 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman Reply-To: Chris Coleman To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Tape Backup Drive Not working. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a 4gig SCSI tape backup drive. It's not working. :-( It is the only device attached to a Adaptec 2910 SCSI controller. It is ID 3 and the Card is ID 7 It comes up in the boot probe screen. And is identified as a Conner SCSI Drive. I have also MAKEDEV 'd the appropriate devices in the /dev directory (sh MAKEDEV st0) but when i run tar i get problems. tar: can't write to /dev/rst0 : input/output error in /var/messages: /kernel st0 (ahc:0:3:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc: 24,0 Invalid field in CDB /kernel st0: bad request, must be between 0 and 0 /kernel st0 (ahc:0:3:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc: 24,0 Invalid field in CDB I'm using FreeBSD 2.1.6 off the Cdrom. Thanks in Advance Chris Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor Death is life's way of telling you you're fired. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:45:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01751 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA01745 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA01166; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:44:56 -0800 (PST) To: Warner Losh cc: Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:30:58 MST." Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:44:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1162.853897495@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message Tim Vanderhoek writes: > : Jordan K. > : Hubbard, much to his credit, is not the type of person likely to inspire > : a personality cult....he lacks eccentricity. > > Hmmmm, how can you possibly say this about a man who lives (or lived) > with 27 cats? :-) :-) :-) Uh, 15. I'm not THAT eccentric. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:53:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA02163 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA02158 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20588; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:36:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220136.SAA20588@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:36:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@whistle.com, khetan@iafrica.com, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@iafrica.com, danielc@iafrica.com In-Reply-To: <19361.853887384@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 02:56:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you were simply going to the right destination by a slightly > different route then this analogy would hold and we'd have little > excuse for asking for different directions. So put up signs pointing out the direction. The whole purpose of having a small core team is to provide the project with a unified vision, isn't it? What good is that if the only place there are signs is on the restricted access campus? > I believe that Poul-Henning has also offered you a complete machine to > place your sources on, in their *entirety*, if the task of breaking > the changes down in a way that others can easily follow is simply > beyond what you have the time or inclination to do. If you are > sincere about our requests for decomposition being the only obstacle, > then I strongly urge you to contact Poul-Henning after reading this > email and take him up on his offer. He has already stated several > times, the last time being no more than half an hour ago (on another > list) that he'd be more than happy to review your work even in its > complete, unfettered glory if you're willing to put it up somewhere > where he can actually get at it. > > I cannot see how a more reasonable offer than this could be made by > anyone. I will be taking Julian up on his offer once I can get a new CVSup set up for my local machine, and start migrating changes. Wherever Poul offered "half an hour ago", I haven't seen it; was the other list the core team list? I'm not on that list. In any case, I plan to take Julian up on his offer... though I was led to believe that the effort wouldn't be worthwhile until the Lite2 integration was complete (something Poul and I *had* discussed when he originally made his offer right before my accident). Is it now worthwhile because the Lite2 integration is complete? Or is it now worthwhile because the Lite2 integration has been scrapped? > No, I have already given you two alternatives which would let you > drive it all in one stretch with nothing but a bottle of benzadrine > and a plastic jesus hanging from your rearview if you so choose. I did that once. I ended up in Cleveland instead of Salt Lake; it's kind of you to offer to let me set out for Cleveland again, though. ;-). > > You can't even agree on what a good design would look like beforehand; > > A good design for what, Terry? Since you're using food analogies > here, let's say I'm a Chef. You ask me: > > T: "Hey, Monsieur Jordan, exactly how do you prepare your meals and what > sort of planning do you do before you start?" > > J: "Well, what sort of meal, Terry, and for how many people?" [ ... ] Actually, it's "what kind of food are you up for?" so I don't have to list all the restaurants in town for you to say "no" one by one until we get one you like. If you are up for ziti, say so, so that I don't have traverse the whole damn alphabet looking for it. > > As a specific example: The failure to even define what an acceptable > > build system should look like so that there is some reasonable > > assurance of acceptance of the work, after the effort is to be > > expended on spec., has blocked out at least two "warm bodies". > > Now hear this: Nobody, and I repeat, nobody is going to define an > "acceptable build system" for you or anyone else. "Acceptable" in > this particular context means "works for all our tools and solves > problems which are unsolved by the current build system" (or there > wouldn't be much point in doing the work), and if I'm going to do all > the work of designing a new framework, verifying that it works for all > the conceivable build situations and is architecturally sound, then > I'm bloody going to go the rest of the way and implement it, no doubt > to find other problems with my logic along the way - nothing else > makes much sense. Actually, I just mean "acceptable" in the sense of "capable of being accepted". That's why I used that "able" suffix and didn't use the word "guarantee" in there anywhere. > Richard claims he needs carte-blanche with the build tree to > do a number of unspecified and yet-to-be-defined things to it, none of > which he's been willing to even put out for review. I never heard Richard ask for that, and I doubt Richard would agree. > You want a spec > to follow or some sort of "happy meal" in a convenient box, but who's > going to do the work of providing you with all of that? And having > done all that work, why wouldn't they simply follow through with it > themselves rather that trying to wet-nurse another engineer through > their design? I'm asking for you to tell me what the shelf where the happy meals are stacked looks like so I can build a happy meal that won't fall on the floor. I'm not asking you to build happy meal boxes for containerized transport. Yes, having a standard box for happy meals would be nice, but it's not required for me to be able to keep them off the floor the way knowledge of the shelf is required. > You also consistently fail to grasp the concept of incremental > introduction. I grasp the concept of evolutionary progress... I simply don't bow to it as if it were a god just to keep all the peasants bowing along with me. It is inefficient compared to revolutionary progress, and it's typically what public companies resort to when they have a 3 month limit on their ability to work without demostrating progress, or an entrepeneur resorts to when he falls back to crisis management instead of delegation to reduce complexity because he's afraid to let go of the reins and trust the horse. If I seem adversarial on the issue, it's because I *loathe* inefficiency. "Beaming down" is a hell of a lot faster than a shuttle craft, even if you can't ask "is Dr. McCoy 30% of the way to the surface?" at a particular instant during the transport, like you could if he were on the pokey old shuttle. > You and Richard have never really given us that opportunity, > demanding immediate entrance to the inner sanctum or nothing, and your > own most significant contribution to the project, LKMs, came in a > rather round-about fashion as I recall and I don't think that you > personally oversaw its incorporation or have shown yourself in any way > willing to subsequently work on incremental improvements to it at all. Gee, and I always though my most significant contribution to the project was building the first patchkit: the seed that grew into the project, when Bill Jolitz revoked permission for a 386BSD 0.5 release after a number of patchkit people had a nice public fight with his wife over nothing. And then, that was only because Bill revoked permission to use the name "386BSD" because I (stupidly, in retrospect) suggested he trademark the thing. You're well aware (or should be) that the LKM system was submitted as alpha code to all the BSD camps immediately before the purchase of USL by Novell made my unable to oversee anything without legally endangering the code base in view of the USL/UCB/BSDi lawsuit. You're also well aware (or should be) that it wasn't until October of 1995 that the term of my agreements with my former employer expired, and that contamination risk from submissions of real code went away. I would also note that FreeBSD didn't adopt the thing until well after NetBSD has done so, and although fine work, most of the stuff CGD did to it did not really change the base character of the code at the time of its adoption. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:56:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA02376 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA02370 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA11175; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:25:44 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701220155.MAA11175@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Cannot fork In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Jan 21, 97 05:26:23 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:25:43 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh stands accused of saying: > > Any ideas on how I might track down this problem? I'm rebuilding my > kernel now with MAX_CHILDREN set to be 256 rather than whatever the > default is. We'll see if that is the problem. Over time I keep > bumping limits and I'm fine for a while, but after a while I start to > hit the cannot fork messages again. What does 'limit maxproc' say? I usually raise it to 200 or so in my .xsession; the default of 40 or so is very tight for heavy X work. > Warner -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 17:57:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA02444 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA02438 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20620; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:41:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220141.SAA20620@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:41:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jan 21, 97 07:37:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > This would so overcomplicate things that you would virtually guarantee no > new members joining FreeBSD. Word of this would get around, most likely > with appropriate scare stories, and folks would avoid the groups like they > were plagued. It wouldn't matter if this actually was workable or not, > the perception of thought police would be too strong. The "perception of thought police" is what we have now. What percentage "Linux vs. FreeBSD" usenet posts from the Linux side of the fence have claimed "FreeBSD has closed developement"? How can "thought police" have an effect in a machine-arbitrated environment? The point of machine-arbitration is the elimination of the possibility (and as a side effect, the perception) of "thought police". "We have always been at war with Microsoft; USL is our ally." Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 18:01:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA02710 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA02704 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA20637; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:45:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220145.SAA20637@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:45:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701220111.LAA10407@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 22, 97 11:41:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Uh, why should you have to reboot? The act of placing the driver object > > in the directory should place it in your kernel... > > I'm assuming ISA isn't going to evaporate overnight. Probing for ISA > devices on a running system is akin to pissing on an electric fence. I'm assuming someone will hire G. Gordon Liddy to shoot it in the head one dark night (well, a person can dream). ISA devices on non-PnP machines won't come online until after you rebbot, I suppose. For PnP machines, the resources will be allocated by the BIOS, even if there isn't a driver to run them, and that can be discovered with a more-PnP-than-ISA-probe(). If you want to abvoid rebooting, then don't buy ISA hardware. If you don't care, feel free to buy ISA hardware. > > > But while I'm thinking and trying to work in that direction, it's > > > nowhere near reality, and that's what I have to deal with at the moment, > > > hence a script that reflects reality rather than some unrealised ideal. > > > > If you keep making these things easy without a real soloution, > > where is the "squeaky wheel" incentive for a real soloution? 8-) 8-). > > I thought your position was self-evident? Heh. Depends on whether it's the users or the engineers who are in charge, I suppose. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 18:05:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA02880 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA02869 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03961; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:04:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spin down problem back? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ah, so that's what it is. I used to dd a Jax disk with a "virgin" win95 install off to my hard drive, then dd it back on, so I could start with a fresh copy of win95. Used to work like a champ, but since I updated to -current on 1/10, it locks my whole system up when I dd it out. Thought I was going crazy. On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Warner Losh writes: > : I'm running a -current kernel from Nov 24. I have just been able to > : recreate a spindown problem with my Jaz drive. > > This problem also happens on a -current kernel from Jan 19, so this > has been broken for a while. > > To recap: Accessing the raw device of a SCSI disk that has spun down > is now broken and causes that device to go offline forever. Think JAZ > drive in spin down mode :-). > > I recreated this problem five times in a row, and I have verified that > my SCSI bus is indeed properly terminated and seated by phyiscal > inspection and reseating of connectors. No other problems on the > system can be seen. > > Warner > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 18:31:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA04831 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA04823 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA20711; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:15:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701220215.TAA20711@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:15:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1045.853896142@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 05:22:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's not complex. I've described the process in abstract; it only > > *looks* complex, it doesn't *act* complex. > > Hmmm. I remain skeptical, but for the purposes of argument... :-) Heh. > > All changes involving dissenting opinions. Again, the core team is > > who you should be asking this question, since you are really asking > > "how much control is the core team giving away?". > > I think you're working from a misperception. The core team doesn't > spend its time sitting around rubbing its collective hands together > and going "Mooohahahaha! POWER!" so it's not likely to consider this > in terms of power loss so much as it is in terms of how much workload > is generated. You misapprehend my meaning when I say "power". I include "the power to control the workload" in "power". The salient point here is that with reduced power comes reduced responsibility (yeah, I watched 'Spiderman' when I was a kid). This means that workload control is no longer the resonsibility of the core team... it probably never should have been, since they are technical people better spent solving technical problems than spent worrying about being buried alive by some fool with a bottle of old French wine. If there are a lot of things on the list, then there are a lot of things on the list. Probably it would be a good idea if there were a rule that you can't make rules imposing blocking restrictions on the list content or ordering ("We must have WINE working before we can commit any other changes"). I suspect that type of resoloution would be voted down anyway. Where the core team may still come into it (this depends on how you decide to constitute the transfer of power) is the ability to block some items pending generation of releases. And that's really the job of the release engineering process, be it defined as a human named Jordan or a human named David or some process involving only the people who are left handed and who also have commit priviledges, provided that they own ergonomic keyboards and three button mice. > From that perspective, it's still an open question as > to who's going to draft bills for the system and what happens if > everybody decides that drafting bills is too much work and they'd > prefer to simply argue in the existing mailing lists (and there are > many oblique ways of arguing a point which make it easy to claim later > that you weren't attempting to circumnavigate the vote system at all). Well, in that case, the mailing list argument isn't really worth anything, unless you take it into a discussion phase. People might ask "how can we implement this?" without having to decide to actually implement it. If people while about "Linux vs. FreeBSD", ignore them. Most likely, a lot of the list traffic will go away, and the S/N ratio will go up overall, with the posts being topical to advancing the project as a whole. > But that doesn't even raise the biggest issue, which is: > > > Freddy Kruger (Kruger@ElmStreet.org) has submitted the > > following policy topic for discussion: > > > > > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ ... various amounts of discussion for 5 days ... ] > > Freddy raises the issue and 10 people vote on it, 7 feeling ELF-ish > enough that the motion "passes." > > Now what? We've got this as a supposed piece of "FreeBSD Policy" now > and users will surely expect it to be implemented or there wouldn't be > much point in the policy or the vote, but who's going to do the work? > The 7 voters? Does that mean that in order to vote "yes" you also > have to be willing to do the work? I'd say most definitely yes to > that since a vote without the rocks to back it up is rather worthless > (Judge: "Have you reached a verdict?" "Yes, we the jury find the > proposal good and would like someone to implement it." Judge: "Who?" > Jury: "Uh, just someone. Hey, all you asked us to do was vote on it, > remember?"). > > So now the question is, if it takes a committment to actually > implement a proposal in order to vote, are people going to jump up and > vote all that much? If it doesn't take a comittment, what's to stop > the peanut gallery from using up their votes on things which will > never get implemented since there are no actual volunteers committed > to doing the work? And what about a No vote? Do you have to be > willing to make a counter-proposal or somehow balance your "no" in a > meaningful way or do the "no's" become stronger than "yesses" since > it's a lot more easy now to shoot something down than vote for it and > get stuck actually doing it. Well, since it isn't your responsibility to actually implement *anything* (this is a volunteer effort), there is a distinction between "policy" and "in the next release". If you feel strongly that there isn't anyone to implement ELF (using the same example) vote "No" on the poll. If it passes anyway, spend 3 vote tokens on a "No" on the Vote. It could be constituted that resloutions "time out" after a month or two months (or whatever time period), unless one or more people volunteer to actually work on it. You want it back on the list? Discuss it, Poll, it, and Vote it again. Call for a vote first thing in the discussion to shorten the time period. If you are whining about it and no one cares, well, you'll use up your tokens that let you whine and we won't have to listen to it any more. Either wy, it self-corrects. What goes on the "in the next release" page is up to the release engineering process, though they should probably only be allowed to suspend incomplete features (the release engineer could still be whoever is fool enough to wear the hat, and is left handed and...). > I don't know, I still think the exception cases outnumber the rules at > this point, and with enough ambiguity still left over to choke a wooly > mammoth. Make a rule throwing out ambiguities. A rule set is just as NP complete when it says "behaviour in this case is undefined and you aren't allowed to define it unless you use a defined behaviour to do it". 8-) 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 18:39:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA05407 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (root@po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA05400 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.23]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07286; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:39:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02125; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:39:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: professor.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:39:24 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Warner Losh , Tim Vanderhoek , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <1162.853897495@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > In message n.ca> Tim Vanderhoek writes: > > : Jordan K. > > : Hubbard, much to his credit, is not the type of person likely to inspire > > : a personality cult....he lacks eccentricity. > > > > Hmmmm, how can you possibly say this about a man who lives (or lived) > > with 27 cats? :-) :-) :-) > > Uh, 15. I'm not THAT eccentric. :-) Now THAT'S a quote: I only have 15 cats, I'm not THAT eccentric. > > Jordan > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 19:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06789 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA06780 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA13095 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA07021; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:12:58 GMT Message-Id: <199701220112.BAA07021@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/netstart In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:05 PST." <19499.853888265@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:12:58 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh ? Where ? In the ifconfig_$if file ? I realize that this file can do > > pretty much anything, but..... > > See /usr/src/etc/sysconfig and /usr/src/etc/netstart in -current. > > Jordan Sorry - I needed this on a system with 2.2-961014 on it, and havn't updated /etc on the -current box in decades :( I'll open my eyes next time :-/ -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 19:02:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06899 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA06828 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06995; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:09:44 GMT Message-Id: <199701220109.BAA06995@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: kavitha cc: tomy@gunpowder.Stanford.EDU, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WIDE DHCP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:13 EST." <9701212127.AA70203@hawpub1.watson.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:09:44 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello, > > Has anyone tried the WIDE implemenation of DHCP on FreeBSD?. [.....] > Thanks in Advance > Regards, > Kavitha I have, but just the server side. However, I don't recall having any compile time problems. Are you running -current ? -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 19:37:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA09228 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA09223 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id OAA32470; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:32:43 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:32:43 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701220332.OAA32470@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imp@village.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Cannot fork Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Any ideas on how I might track down this problem? I'm rebuilding my >> kernel now with MAX_CHILDREN set to be 256 rather than whatever the MAX_CHILDREN is not an option. You probably mean CHILD_MAX. CHILD_MAX should never have been an option and now has no effect in -current. Limits are now set according to data in /etc/login.conf. Some of the limits are too small. I just hit the 8MB filesize limit when I tried to run `iozone 16'. This limit used to be broken (running a subprocess used to increase the limit to RLIM_INFINITY) so the problem wasn't evident. `su' to root to change the limits gave even smaller limits initially: `default' limits after login: cpu time (seconds, -t) unlimited file size (512-blocks, -f) 16384 <- too small data seg size (kbytes, -d) 16384 stack size (kbytes, -s) 2048 <- too small core file size (512-blocks, -c) 16384 max memory size (kbytes, -m) 30720 locked memory (kbytes, -l) 10240 max user processes (-u) 64 open files (-n) 64 `standard' limits after su: cpu time (seconds, -t) 5400 <- smaller file size (512-blocks, -f) 16384 data seg size (kbytes, -d) 8192 <- smaller stack size (kbytes, -s) 2048 core file size (512-blocks, -c) 16384 max memory size (kbytes, -m) 8192 <- smaller locked memory (kbytes, -l) 4096 <- smaller max user processes (-u) 32 <- smaller open files (-n) 24 <- smaller >What does 'limit maxproc' say? I usually raise it to 200 or so in >my .xsession; the default of 40 or so is very tight for heavy X work. This now only works for root, since login.conf specifies that the hard limits and the soft limits are set to the same (often small) values. Class `xuser' has slightly larger limits. I think that only the soft limits should be restricted for trusted interactive users, and most of the soft limits should be about twice as large (same as the old non-bogus kernel defaults for the non-X case). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 19:59:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10047 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (eel.dataplex.net [208.2.87.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10042 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [208.2.87.3] (shrimp [208.2.87.3]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15927; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:59:17 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19361.853887384@time.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:37:00 MST." <199701212037.NAA19913@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:41:53 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Terry Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> As a specific example: The failure to even define what an acceptable >> build system should look like so that there is some reasonable >> assurance of acceptance of the work, after the effort is to be >> expended on spec., has blocked out at least two "warm bodies". > >Now hear this: Nobody, and I repeat, nobody is going to define an >"acceptable build system" for you or anyone else. > "Acceptable" in >this particular context means "works for all our tools and solves >problems which are unsolved by the current build system" (or there >wouldn't be much point in doing the work), THAT sounds like a definition to me! However, I would wish to modify it somewhat. In particular, in order to achieve some of the goals, it may be necessary to "break" some things. I contend that some of them need to be "broken" simply because they are not consistent with the current state of the art. I do however agree that we cannot break the functionality. I go one step further and contend that we not only have to replace changed functionality, but have to do so in a manner which provides a continuous sequence of working intermediate steps. > and if I'm going to do all >the work of designing a new framework, verifying that it works for all >the conceivable build situations and is architecturally sound, then >I'm bloody going to go the rest of the way and implement it, no doubt >to find other problems with my logic along the way - nothing else >makes much sense. The definition *IS* a very large part of the work >and expecting someone to do this for you is just ludicrous. Now, please consider the above paragraph from MY perspective. I agree that 1) the task is large and that 2) the definition of details is most of the work. But that is exactly what I have told I must do before I get any feedback. "show us the code that does it and we will see if we like it" However, I am unwilling to put in all of that effort only to have someone step in at the last moment and veto the entire effort simply because I stepped on their precious toes. >That's why you and Richard haven't gotten anywhere with the new build >system. Richard claims he needs carte-blanche with the build tree to >do a number of unspecified and yet-to-be-defined things to it, none of >which he's been willing to even put out for review. WRONG! I want agreement that we will first explicitly agree to a design methodology. That methodology has absolutely no "code" in its definition. Following the methodology, we will next determine (propose, discuss, AND REVIEW) the design goals. In particular, we will state the criteria which must be met in order to have a design declared "acceptable". At this point I do wish "carte-blanche" in developing a design to meet the stated criteria. That is not to say that such design will be done without even more discussion. However, it does preclude someone comming in later and exercising a veto simply because the design does not meet some goal that was not previously specified. Without knowing exactly HOW the design will meet the goals, I do know from previous experience that certain things will need to be modified. This modification will have to be done in a "side-stepping" manner in order to meet the "incremental continuity" constraint that I include in the design requirements. By the very nature of these changes, they will not, in themselves, create any improvement. In fact, there may be temporary digressions. However, they will be establishing the base upon which the final design is built. Again, I would EXPECT that the details of the individual steps would be REVIEWED, tested, and demonstrated in order to help assure that they do not "break" things. However, that review is not permitted to question whether they, standing alone, improve things. That is replaced by only the question of whether or not they help move us along a path to the proviously established destination. > You want a spec >to follow or some sort of "happy meal" in a convenient box, but who's >going to do the work of providing you with all of that? And having >done all that work, why wouldn't they simply follow through with it >themselves rather that trying to wet-nurse another engineer through >their design? I think that you and I are talking at different levels. By a "spec", I want performance requirements. In particular what existing methodology is sacred? For example, do I HAVE to keep "/usr/obj" or am I allowed to substitute some other mechanism in the final implementation as long as that mechanism allows the use of a scratch disk for the intermediates. This is a long way from the detail specification which I would produce in the course of the design and implementation. >Neither set of demands is reasonable or even constitutes good >engineering, and were I to agitate for similar sweeping changes to the >build system myself then you can bet that *I* would also encounter >significant and justifiable resistance from within the core team until >I'd truly explained to their satisfaction how I wasn't going to break >the entire world or replace it with something far worse. The build >system is one of those special examples of something which effects >practically *everyone*, and if you're prepared to contemplate such >changes lightly (or expect the core team to do the same) then you're >not thinking very clearly, nor have you even shown yourself willing to >explain it to *anyone*'s satisfaction. How could this do anything but >fail? I do not take it lightly. As for "explaining it", I have REPEATEDLY been told that the ONLY acceptable "explanation" is a FULLY working implementation. These people do not seem to grasp conceptual designs. Instead they are stuck at the "nuts and bolts" level. I fear that this effort is doomed simply because everyone wants to withold judgment until the project is virtually finished and then veto the whole thing because there is some minor inconvience to them individually. They are unwilling to give up any of their own convienence for the common good. And I have no desire to attempt such a project in the hopes that it will "appease the gods". I wrote my operating systems 30 and 25 years ago. I don't have to prove to myself that I can do it again. If I am going to do something "for fun", I want the assurance that someone will not shoot it down just to prove that they have the power to do so. That is the purpose of the "contract". If the goods meet specification, you are required to accept them and pay for them. In this case, the "pay" is their incorporation in the system. You are not allowed to change the specification at the last minute and refuse the goods. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:12:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10813 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10808 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:12:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA08396; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:10:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220410.UAA08396@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: John Polstra Cc: David Greenman , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:10:42 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:49:42 -0800 John Polstra wrote: > I don't know what architectural problems you're referring to. There > aren't any in the object format itself that seem severe to me. ...ELF has one _major_ losing, IMO... No tag that specifies the ABI. You see "ELF for SPARC". That's it. That's a bummer. But, that's really my only gripe with it :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:27:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11481 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11476 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.22]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA05054; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22172; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:27:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: maryann.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:27:22 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701220141.SAA20620@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > > > This would so overcomplicate things that you would virtually guarantee no > > new members joining FreeBSD. Word of this would get around, most likely > > with appropriate scare stories, and folks would avoid the groups like they > > were plagued. It wouldn't matter if this actually was workable or not, > > the perception of thought police would be too strong. > > The "perception of thought police" is what we have now. > > What percentage "Linux vs. FreeBSD" usenet posts from the Linux side > of the fence have claimed "FreeBSD has closed developement"? > > How can "thought police" have an effect in a machine-arbitrated > environment? The point of machine-arbitration is the elimination > of the possibility (and as a side effect, the perception) of "thought > police". Yes, our development is much more controlled than Linux's is, but putting further controls on it is going to magnify the perception of FreeBSD's tighter control. It doesn't matter if the end effect is more or less freedom, the perception is the only thing of importance. We have the "perception of thought police", yes, so we shouldn't move towards making that perception stronger. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:29:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11584 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11579 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA03470; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:05 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:04 +1100 (EST) From: David Nugent Reply-To: davidn@blaze.net.au To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cannot fork In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Warner Losh wrote: >How to I get rid of the cannot fork messages? I have maxusers set to >be 30 for my 486 box, yet I still get these messages from time to >time. I just upgraded from Nov 24 -current to Jan 19-current and have >found that the number of times I'm hitting this seems to be much >greater. As others have also said, this is probably due to /etc/login.conf. I committed changes to the default one earlier which should alleviate most of the problems. Otherwise, edit as appropriate. FWIW, the "default" class now modifies mostly soft limits as opposed to hard limits, allowing you to change soft resource limits upwards if it is appropriate. For public systems offering shell accounts, you'd probably need to be a little more strict than that. :-) Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:31:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11709 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11698 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id PAA01813; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:20 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:20 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701220429.PAA01813@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I realized later that this is not true. ELF double-maps the page >containing the boundary between text and data. That wastes a page >(4K), making ELF's memory usage in execution the same on average >as that of a.out. Isn't this just wasteful on (flat model) i386's? It provides no protection against writing the text in the boundary page via the data mapping, and isn't necessary for execution because the i386 doesn't have an execution bit in its page tables. Protection can only be provided by starting the data segment at the boundary, but this would break many (broken) programs that assume that text pointers are interchangeable with data pointers, and doesn't require double mapping anyway. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:34:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11813 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11802 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA07817; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:34:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:34:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > [In addition to 37 other people:] >> > : Hubbard, much to his credit, is not the type of person likely to inspire >> > : a personality cult....he lacks eccentricity. >> > >> > Hmmmm, how can you possibly say this about a man who lives (or lived) >> > with 27 cats? :-) :-) :-) >> >> Uh, 15. I'm not THAT eccentric. :-) > >Now THAT'S a quote: I only have 15 cats, I'm not THAT eccentric. Well, my favorite quote so far is the one regarding the bottle of Benzedrine and the plastic Jesus hanging from the rear view, on a spiritual journey to SLC. :-) Shopping the goodwill stores for MY plastic Jesus, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:37:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12078 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12070 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA28141; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:37:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220437.UAA28141@austin.polstra.com> To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:20 +1100." <199701220429.PAA01813@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199701220429.PAA01813@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:37:24 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [double mapping the boundary page] > Isn't this just wasteful on (flat model) i386's? It provides no > protection against writing the text in the boundary page via the > data mapping, and isn't necessary for execution because the i386 > doesn't have an execution bit in its page tables. Yes, I think you're right. The double mapping has to take place, though, because the linker has relocated addresses based on the assumption that it will take place. The linker could be changed not to do that, but then it wouldn't be ELF any more. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 20:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12581 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12576 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA11024; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:49:17 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:41:26 MST." <199701220141.SAA20620@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:49:17 -0800 Message-ID: <11021.853908557@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The "perception of thought police" is what we have now. > > What percentage "Linux vs. FreeBSD" usenet posts from the Linux side > of the fence have claimed "FreeBSD has closed developement"? Actually, these days almost gone and I haven't missed them a bit. I think you're still operating from assumptions which are dated almost a year now, it having been that long since I last saw the topic seriously raised in USENET or the mailing lists, and it would appear that we've brought enough people into the commit team just over the last 6 months alone that few could claim we haven't been open to the prospect of letting in new people or expanding the core team. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 21:13:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA13168 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:13:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13163 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23904; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:09:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:09:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701220509.WAA23904@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry In-Reply-To: <199701220136.SAA20588@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <19361.853887384@time.cdrom.com> <199701220136.SAA20588@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > So put up signs pointing out the direction. The whole purpose of > having a small core team is to provide the project with a unified > vision, isn't it? Actually, the *real* purpose of a core team is to reward those folks who have shown a willingness to go the extra mile to make FreeBSD usable to the masses. As a punishment, they get to argue about non-technical issues like booting Terry off the FreeBSD mailing lists due to overload the mail server, but *most* technical arguements still occur within the group of people the person feels is most capable, core group or not. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 21:13:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA13204 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:13:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13197 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23906; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:09:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:09:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701220509.WAA23906@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701220141.SAA20620@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701220141.SAA20620@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth soloution, as > > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > > > This would so overcomplicate things that you would virtually guarantee no > > new members joining FreeBSD. Word of this would get around, most likely > > with appropriate scare stories, and folks would avoid the groups like they > > were plagued. It wouldn't matter if this actually was workable or not, > > the perception of thought police would be too strong. > > The "perception of thought police" is what we have now. > > What percentage "Linux vs. FreeBSD" usenet posts from the Linux side > of the fence have claimed "FreeBSD has closed developement"? I'll bet you that the number is closed to nil now. I haven't seen one in over 9 months on Usenet. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 21:20:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA13577 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13572 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23918; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:14:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:14:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701220514.WAA23918@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701220215.TAA20711@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <1045.853896142@time.cdrom.com> <199701220215.TAA20711@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Cranking them out tonight ] > > I think you're working from a misperception. The core team doesn't > > spend its time sitting around rubbing its collective hands together > > and going "Mooohahahaha! POWER!" so it's not likely to consider this > > in terms of power loss so much as it is in terms of how much workload > > is generated. > > You misapprehend my meaning when I say "power". I include "the power > to control the workload" in "power". > > The salient point here is that with reduced power comes reduced > responsibility (yeah, I watched 'Spiderman' when I was a kid). > This means that workload control is no longer the resonsibility of > the core team... it probably never should have been, since they > are technical people better spent solving technical problems > than spent worrying about being buried alive by some fool with > a bottle of old French wine. Umm, I think you are working from a misperception. The core team doesn't have anything to do with determining the 'workload' of FreeBSD. Code either gets submitted and committed by a 'committer', and if the submitter has proven him/herself trustworthy than that person becomes a committer. Just recently Kazutaka YOKOTA was added to the committers list because of his work on syscons and the PS/2 mouse driver. Core made the final decision (of course), but I Kazu's work was the deciding factor as to whether or not he should be a committer, not some secret hush-hush core discussion. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:23:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17180 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17173 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vmw55-0001GO-00; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:22:43 -0700 To: davidn@blaze.net.au Subject: Re: Cannot fork Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:04 +1100." References: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:22:43 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message David Nugent writes: : As others have also said, this is probably due to : /etc/login.conf. But I don't have a login.conf. Maybe I should :-) My maxproc is 40. I don't think I had that many processes going, but building a port does take quite a bit of processes, come to think of it. I'll increase my maxproc to 500 or so in /etc/login.conf. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:30:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17686 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17680 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA21895; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:29:09 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:36:31 MST." <199701220136.SAA20588@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:29:08 -0800 Message-ID: <21891.853914548@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So put up signs pointing out the direction. The whole purpose of > having a small core team is to provide the project with a unified > vision, isn't it? What good is that if the only place there are > signs is on the restricted access campus? There are no signs anywhere, Terry, either on or off the "restricted access campus" (and that campus is smaller than you think - write access to the CVS repository is basically ALL we really control). We're making this up as we go along, to be perfectly frank (I looked for "How to create your own free operating system project" at Barnes & Nobel but didn't have much luck), and as far as I know the purpose of the core team is really to provide a focus for existing (and sometimes conflicting) visions more than it is to be a wellspring of vision itself. Hell, most of the core team members don't agree with *one another* half the time (and that's not necessarily always a bad thing) and have a very wide set of interests. I could jabber on about installation tools all day in core and maybe one or two people tops would feel compelled to comment on it. Our biggest ongoing job is to rubber-stamp new members coming into the commit list or core team, and as that only happens about once or twice a month (the former, not the latter) it's not a big part of our day. Our rubber stamp is also applied fairly liberally, with those who have shown a definite interest in sheparding this or that into the source tree and with no serious tendency to fumble-finger patches being pretty much just ushered right in. The core team does not do management as a general rule, it does mostly development. It is only called upon occasionally to do management, and more than this would only aggrevate and annoy the various hackers who compose the core team and would really like to spend their time doing development instead. I wouldn't have it any other way since we NEED development. > I will be taking Julian up on his offer once I can get a new CVSup > set up for my local machine, and start migrating changes. Wherever > Poul offered "half an hour ago", I haven't seen it; was the other > list the core team list? I'm not on that list. This was last raised then, but Poul says that he's made the offer repeatedly before now and this is hardly the first time it's come up. You really don't remember any offer from Poul to give you access to a machine where you could put your bits? Strange. > In any case, I plan to take Julian up on his offer... though I was led Great! > to believe that the effort wouldn't be worthwhile until the Lite2 > integration was complete (something Poul and I *had* discussed when he > originally made his offer right before my accident). Is it now > worthwhile because the Lite2 integration is complete? Or is it > now worthwhile because the Lite2 integration has been scrapped? Well, Lite2 may well prove a short-term inconvenience, but that doesn't prevent you from putting your code up for review in the interim. Helping with the Lite2 merge would be another way of making it worthwhile, of course. :-) > Actually, it's "what kind of food are you up for?" so I don't have to > list all the restaurants in town for you to say "no" one by one until > we get one you like. If you are up for ziti, say so, so that I don't > have traverse the whole damn alphabet looking for it. Well, like I said, we're always up for bug fixing and general enhancement, and there's definitely plenty of that to go around. Beyond that, heck, pick something which interests you and go for it. When you've got something to the stage where you'd like others to help you test/review it, announce it to hackers and put your bits up somewhere. If the review goes well, have it committed. > Actually, I just mean "acceptable" in the sense of "capable of being > accepted". That's why I used that "able" suffix and didn't use the > word "guarantee" in there anywhere. To you and Richard: Anything which solves the make ordering problems (/usr/src is not "self contained"), deals with cross-platform builds and/or generally makes the Makefiles easier to understand (since further obfuscation is hardly desirable) is welcome. If you want a reviewer, I'll be happy to volunteer. > I'm asking for you to tell me what the shelf where the happy meals > are stacked looks like so I can build a happy meal that won't fall > on the floor. I'm not asking you to build happy meal boxes for It's at this point that the analogy starts to break down. :-) I don't know what consistutes a "shelf" in the analgous side of this picture. > I grasp the concept of evolutionary progress... I simply don't bow > to it as if it were a god just to keep all the peasants bowing along > with me. It is inefficient compared to revolutionary progress, and That may be, but revolutionary progress from someone who has yet to demonstrated prowess at working with the group over even small issues is not what we're looking for either. What's so terrible about a little dating first before deciding on marriage? :-) > Gee, and I always though my most significant contribution to the > project was building the first patchkit: the seed that grew into I didn't think you cared to admit that, so I didn't raise it. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:36:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA18078 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18071 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:36:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id RAA13875; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:05:44 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701220635.RAA13875@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970122042506.006a03c8@jump.net> from Lee Crites at "Jan 21, 97 10:25:06 pm" To: adonai@jump.net (Lee Crites) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:05:42 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lee Crites stands accused of saying: > > Since I'm probably still killed on the freebsd.org system, If you can work out what's happening there, you'll be reinstated PDQ. 8) > Check out aix. You can build kernel extensions with impunity. To quote the > "AIX RS/6000 as a REAL-TIME SYSTEM" redbook: "The AIX kernel is a > dynamically extendable kernel that can be expanded by adding device drivers, > system calls, kernel services, or private kernel routines. Extensinos can > be added at system boot time or while the system is in operation." > > And it works. Yeowch. I spy a huge pile of locks and semaphores. > I'm not trying to be a 'squeaky wheel' here, but this is a real possibility. Wrong approach. Squeak lots 8) > Having been on the kernel extension writing end of things, I can appreciate > how complex it would be to configure a live, running kernel that can accept > aribrary extensions on the fly. However, making something that can > link/re-link on reboot wouldn't be as difficult. Are you admitting some experience and maybe offering to help? Wonderful! > My point here is if we continue to think of things in terms of a single > paradigm, that is all we will ever see, thus the only solutions we will ever > come up with. If, on the other hand, we continue to expand our vision, we > will be able to come up with much better solutions. Understood. I doubt that even the most stuck-in-the-mud conservatives would disagree with the basic sentiment there. > Lee -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:51:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA18766 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18758 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA24362; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:47:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:47:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701220647.XAA24362@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Terry In-Reply-To: References: <199701212037.NAA19913@phaeton.artisoft.com> <19361.853887384@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I do not take it lightly. As for "explaining it", I have REPEATEDLY been > told that the ONLY acceptable "explanation" is a FULLY working > implementation. These people do not seem to grasp conceptual designs. > Instead they are stuck at the "nuts and bolts" level. And I'll again remind you that I volunteerED (note the past tense) to work with you on building the next generation system *months* ago if you could show me a working prototype. I *never* received a reply from you accepting/rejecting the offer, so my offer was withdrawn after 2 months of waiting with nothing to show for. I'm not going to commit my time for something that simply isn't going to occur because of yet another excuse. I was willing to work with you and yet when you had what you publically asked for you still refused to do anything. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:57:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19017 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19012 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA09878; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:16 -0800 (PST) To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:41:53 CST." Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:15 -0800 Message-ID: <9874.853916235@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > THAT sounds like a definition to me! However, I would wish to modify it > somewhat. In particular, in order to achieve some of the goals, it may be > necessary to "break" some things. I contend that some of them need to be > "broken" simply because they are not consistent with the current state No, you don't break anything. If you change some Makefile macro so that /usr/src/bin/cat no longer compiles, you also fix /usr/src/bin/cat or people will see how many times they can jump up and down on your head, and most deservedly so! :-) > of the art. I do however agree that we cannot break the functionality. > I go one step further and contend that we not only have to replace changed > functionality, but have to do so in a manner which provides a continuous > sequence of working intermediate steps. Right, so you already understand what it takes to keep people from standing on your head. Sounds like a promising start to me. > Now, please consider the above paragraph from MY perspective. I agree > that 1) the task is large and that 2) the definition of details is most of > the work. But that is exactly what I have told I must do before I get any > feedback. "show us the code that does it and we will see if we like it" > However, I am unwilling to put in all of that effort only to have someone > step in at the last moment and veto the entire effort simply because I > stepped on their precious toes. You wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes and no one in the core team feels particularly paternal towards the build system, in fact most core team members can fill you in chapter and verse about its various shortcomings. This still doesn't mean you can say "OK, I'm going to rampage through the source tree now" and not give anyone the slightest idea of what you're going to be up to somewhat in advance. See below. > WRONG! I want agreement that we will first explicitly agree to a design > methodology. That methodology has absolutely no "code" in its definition. So let's see your design methodology then. How can we agree to something we've never even seen? > Following the methodology, we will next determine (propose, discuss, > AND REVIEW) the design goals. In particular, we will state the criteria > which must be met in order to have a design declared "acceptable". At this > point I do wish "carte-blanche" in developing a design to meet the stated > criteria. That is not to say that such design will be done without even > more discussion. However, it does preclude someone comming in later and > exercising a veto simply because the design does not meet some goal that > was not previously specified. I have no problem with setting goals, reviewing them and coming to a common concensus about what we're willing to have done to the tree. If you can then work within those lines, your design will not be veto'd over some last minute contractual change. Mind you, you could very well prove to be a complete incompetent and your changes could all suck mightily, in which case we would have to reserve the right to reject what would only do the project harm, but if you actually do have the skills to pull this off (and I don't really want to hear arguments either way, I'm simply saying that we don't *know* for sure what you are yet) then that's great and I don't see any problem. We didn't jump on Justin once he was done with his reorg of the SCSI driver, or tell John Dyson after he was finished: "Uh, sorry, no - we changed our minds. Forget about the merged VM/buffer cache stuff." Ideas with genuine merit and a quality implementation are gladly accepted. Since we don't know you very well at all, it remains purely to be seen whether your ideas have either merit or quality before any idea of "carte blanch" can be extended. You simply haven't done anything which lets us know how to categorize you either way, and this is not the catholic chuch - unswerving faith is not our answer to the unknown. > Without knowing exactly HOW the design will meet the goals, I do know > design requirements. By the very nature of these changes, they will not, in > themselves, create any improvement. In fact, there may be temporary > digressions. However, they will be establishing the base upon which the > final design is built. Again, I would EXPECT that the details of the individu Fine, that's all fine - we don't expect you to build Rome in a day or spend your entire time sculpting elaborate and highly visible frescos. We simply would like to know whether you're a master builder or merely someone with pretentions to being one, and the only way we can know that is to see the quality of your work. > steps would be REVIEWED, tested, and demonstrated in order to help assure > that they do not "break" things. However, that review is not permitted to > question whether they, standing alone, improve things. That is replaced by > only the question of whether or not they help move us along a path to the > proviously established destination. Though it would still remain incumbent upon you to explain the long-term significance of a set of changes which confer no short term advantage and are purely infractructural. No one expects to review the build system in any kind of stand-alone context anyway since that's basically a useless exercise given the highly inter-related nature of the changes. > I think that you and I are talking at different levels. By a "spec", I want > performance requirements. In particular what existing methodology > is sacred? For example, do I HAVE to keep "/usr/obj" or am I allowed to > substitute some other mechanism in the final implementation as long as > that mechanism allows the use of a scratch disk for the intermediates. And is superior to the existing mechansim. Change for change's sake or because it doesn't smell like Richard is clearly bad. Change for the sake of a real advantage (which you can cite if and when asked) is just fine. > I do not take it lightly. As for "explaining it", I have REPEATEDLY been > told that the ONLY acceptable "explanation" is a FULLY working > implementation. These people do not seem to grasp conceptual designs. > Instead they are stuck at the "nuts and bolts" level. OK, perhaps I communicated this poorly then. Let's change this to "the ONLY acceptable explanation is a design document and the will to follow through with it using the ratified final version." I think that's more than reasonable. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 22:59:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19085 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:59:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (daemon@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19068; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:59:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19259; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:59:14 +1000 Received: from pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au by ogre.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.7.5/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id PAA10579; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:45:34 +1000 (EST) Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au [167.123.24.12]) by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA05625; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:45:30 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id FAA17175; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:44:33 GMT Message-Id: <199701220544.FAA17175@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mmaping device space into user space X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:44:33 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm fooling around with some of the sound device drivers, and I'm wanting to know how to mmap some of the DMA buffers that they use into user space. Any clues? Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 23:00:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19246 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19241 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA11541; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:59:37 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:09:02 MST." <199701220509.WAA23904@rocky.mt.sri.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:59:36 -0800 Message-ID: <11538.853916376@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, the *real* purpose of a core team is to reward those folks who > have shown a willingness to go the extra mile to make FreeBSD usable to > the masses. Yes, that too. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 21 23:22:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA20180 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20174; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id RAA14212; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:52:09 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701220722.RAA14212@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Xylogics annex (erpcd) support on FreeBSD To: isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:52:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This was forwarded to me; I think it's worthwhile so I'm passing it on. If you'd like to see FreeBSD supported by Xylogics, please take a few seconds to fill this in and send it off. ----- Forwarded message from Matthew Baker ----- >From matt@portal.net.au Wed Jan 22 17:42:30 1997 Message-Id: <199701220715.RAA01062@junior.portal.net.au> Subject: FreeBSD stuff Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 17:48:32 +1100 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Matthew Baker To: "Mike Smith" Mike, Just read the following in comp.dcom.servers, just wondering if you have seen it go past in the FreeBSD mailing lists, and if you think it's worthwhile posting to them to get more people to respond to it. >PURPOSE: > >The purpose of this survey is to see if enough Xylogics (Bay Networks) >erpcd users exist using FreeBSD to encourage Xylogics to officially >support FreeBSD. Please respond if you currently run erpcd on a FreeBSD >platform. If you are NOT currently running erpcd on a FreeBSD platform >but WOULD run erpcd on a FreeBSD platform if Xylogics officially >supported FreeBSD in more than just a single outdated version, please >respond as well. > >DEADLINE: > >Thursday, Jan. 24 1997 -- I would like to finish this survey quickly, so >please respond as soon as possible. I will create a survey results >summary and put it online at http://www.infowest.com/erpcd-survey.html >on Friday, Jan. 25. > >SURVEY: > > * Do you or does your organization currently run erpcd on a FreeBSD >platform? (If yes, what version of FreeBSD? 2.0.5R, 2.1R, 2.1.5R, >2.1.6R, 2.1.6-STABLE, 2.2-BETA, or some other version or intermediate >version?) > > * Do you or does your organization currently run erpcd on a BSDI >BSD/OS platform? (If yes, what version of BSD/OS?) > > * Do you or does your organization currently run erpcd on a Linux >platform? (If yes, what version?) > > * Would you or your organization run erpcd on a FreeBSD platform IF >Xylogics officially supported FreeBSD beyond a single outdated FreeBSD >version (2.0.5R)? > > * May I use your name, or your organization's name with a contact >e-mail address when I contact Xylogics with the results of this informal >survey in an effort to encourage them to support FreeBSD? Please >specify what name, organization name, and/or e-mail address that I may >use. > > * Please include any other related comments here that you would like >included with any message I send to Xylogics. > > * May I use your contact information and comments on the web page >summary? > >END OF SURVEY PLEASE RESPOND VIA E-MAIL TO: agifford@infowest.com That's all! Thank you for your time and cooperation. I hope there is enough interest in FreeBSD to help Xylogics support it. I currently run erpcd on a FreeBSD 2.1.6-STABLE platform, and I've had trouble with their customer support because I'm not running on an officially supported platform, even though I can run the Xylogics supplied 2.0.5R binary or the BSD/OS binary on the same FreeBSD box. The difficulties with Xylogics customer support are what prompted me to do this survey. Again, thanks for your participation. Sincerely, Aaron Gifford InfoWest Networking ---------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew Baker Phone: +61-8-211-8331 matt@portal.net.au Fax: +61-8-211-8331 portal.net Internet Service Provider Mobile: +61-15-718-527 Adelaide, South Australia ----- End of forwarded message from Matthew Baker ----- -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 00:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22415 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22410 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdr@localhost) by ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA11281; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:18:43 +1000 From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199701220818.SAA11281@ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:18:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1045.853896142@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 05:22:22 pm Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > But that doesn't even raise the biggest issue, which is: > > > Freddy Kruger (Kruger@ElmStreet.org) has submitted the > > following policy topic for discussion: > > > > > FreeBSD should move from a.out to ELF. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [ ... various amounts of discussion for 5 days ... ] > > Freddy raises the issue and 10 people vote on it, 7 feeling ELF-ish > enough that the motion "passes." > > Now what? We've got this as a supposed piece of "FreeBSD Policy" now > and users will surely expect it to be implemented or there wouldn't be ... Actually, I think you'll find he was proposing a two stage process where the above example only allows a further vote to be taken as to whether or not it should become `policy'. This second stage is where you spend your vote tokens if you want to stop something passing. You are really alluding to the possibility of things `passing' due to apathy of the vast majority. That could be easily fixed. I imaging that people with `vote tokens' have them because they are registered as `adherents' to the FreeBSD religion. The Votebot could send each adherent a re-registration slip, say every three months. No reply means you are automatically removed from the adherents list and your voting rights disappear. You can easily re-instate yourself at any time and your previous vote tokens (if any) are then restored. In this way you trim out people who have lost the religion. At the first stage of voting, a decision to have a real vote on a policy change will *only* be made if (a) a significant fraction of adherents take part in the vote AND (b) there is a majority of `yes' over `no'. That way, if there is general apathy, the thing dies. At the second `real vote' stage, you must then decide whether to spend your vote tokens. Once again, things `pass' only if a quorum is involved and there is a majority of `yes' over `no' votes. The required quorum could be quite different for the first and second stages of voting. For example, the quorum to decide whether or not to put things to a vote could be set at say 20% which would not stifle the process but the quorum to actually change policy could be say 40 - 50% to make sure that a vocal minority couldn't `roll' the silent majority. Terry did offer to implement the voting system. Why not take him up on his offer with the first question to be decided being:- Q. Should changes in FreeBSD policy be made by an auto-voting system? and if you get a `yes' on that then the second could be:- Q. Does the Emperor have some clothes after all?? :-). Seriously, it might be useful to have the user community vote on important policy issues (like a.out versus ELF) knowing that there is really no binding commitment on volunteers to do anything if it doesn't suit the volunteers. I'm sure everyone really does understand and accept that. It would also be useful to kill off discussion that has exceeded its use-by date (like this thread) by putting it to a vote and then getting on with more useful things. All the above is, of course, IMHO. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 00:26:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22578 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22548 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA27342; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:25:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA26344; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:15:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:15:51 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: reboot(8) and slow-dying processes References: <199701212329.XAA00566@veda.is> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701212329.XAA00566@veda.is>; from Adam David on Jan 21, 1997 23:29:22 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Adam David wrote: > reboot(8) is very unforgiving in that it only allows 5 seconds for > processes to tidy up and exit gracefully, but there may be processes > that need a longer delay before they are slaughtered as a last > resort (for instance large database applications). The projected solution to this is rc.shutdown, with an adjustable `grace time' (maximum period init should wait for the processes to complete shutting down). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 00:40:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22989 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22984; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id TAA10401; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:36:11 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:36:11 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701220836.TAA10401@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Mmaping device space into user space Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm fooling around with some of the sound device drivers, and I'm wanting to >know how to mmap some of the DMA buffers that they use into user space. Any >clues? See scmmap() in syscons.c. Mmaping in device drivers is very easy if the memory is contiguous, page-aligned and never freed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 00:55:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23547; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:55:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:55:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199701220855.AAA23547@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jkh Subject: Re: Terry Cc: hackers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Helping with the Lite2 merge would be another way > of making it worthwhile, of course. :-) Terry was one of the few people who actually reviewed the Lite2 patch and he sent in detailed comments, which qualifies as a contribution in my book. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 00:58:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23701 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from profane.iq.org (profane.iq.org [203.4.184.217]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23686 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from proff@localhost) by profane.iq.org (8.8.4/8.8.2) id TAA08248; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:57:22 +1100 (EST) From: Julian Assange Message-Id: <199701220857.TAA08248@profane.iq.org> Subject: kernel configuration In-Reply-To: <28199.853858730@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 21, 97 06:58:50 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:57:21 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Have you considered adapting the current visual kernel > > options code to manage compile time options as well? > > It seems to me that this would provide a very nice > > unified interface. Brief descriptions of the device > > could be displayed in an additional horizontal region, > > perhaps augmented with a computer readable flag mask > > description language. > > Yes, we've definitely considered it. Unfortunately, there's > no framework for it and the compile-time options also do more > than just set variables which sysinstall might be able to tweak > afterwards, they selectively compile sections of code and how do > you conditionalize THAT after the fact? :-) Well, you don't need to, after the fact, because if the code ain't there - it ain't there ;) > Maybe someday, but it's going to take some major work > on the whole configuration paradigm. Speaking of which, I wonder if it is time the kernel dependency system was rationalised. I rationalised the linux equivalent (which was (is?) a real shocker) by writing code to find every configuration macro, and separate them out into individual .h files included by the code that referred to it. This is similar to the current opt_foo.h scheme FreeBSD has now. I feel a little woosey looking at -DFFS -DIPDIVERT -DINSERTYOURUNDEPENDABLECPPDEFILEHERE's marching up my screen during a kernel compile. A define which does nothing is pointless and a define which does something potentially changes code and so must be referred to as dependency by the code it effects. The only command line define that is acceptable is -DKERNEL. On a slight tangential, has thought been given to clustering kernel text/bss initialisation code at the start or end of the image and lopping it all off once the last piece of init code is called? Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 01:53:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA25562 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25557 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03674; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:53:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220953.BAA03674@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for Major Device number In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:50:14 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:53:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Great, I am glad to all agree on the new major number , crw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 79, 0 Dec 9 05:16 /dev/bktr Please note the date in which it was created, I will announce my driver on Friday. Tnks, Amancio >From The Desk Of J Wunsch : > As Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > I am getting ready to release a new video capture driver for > > Brooktree's bt848 PCI chipset. Can I get a major device for > > my device driver? > > That's the end of /sys/i386/conf/majors.i386: > > 75 stli Stallion (intelligent cdk based) (gerg@stallion.oz.au ) > 76 scc IBM Smart Capture Card (ohashi@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.j p) > 77 cyy Cyclades Ye/PCI serial card > 78 gd Geometry disk > > So it seems 79 will be the next one. > > Since you need to #define it at the beginning of your driver anyway > (gee, maybe somebody will write a devfs_next_major() some day?), it > shouldn't be a bid deal to change this later. > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 02:25:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA27043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27035 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:25:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id VAA13789; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:22:47 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:22:47 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701221022.VAA13789@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jgrosch@sirius.com Subject: Re: ffs on ZIP drive (fwd) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I recently added a SCSI ZIP drive to my FreeBSD system. I've taken a stab >at at putting a file system on one of the disks. The following steps will >place a file system on the disk. > > * scsiformat sd2 > - Takes about 7 to 9 minutes to format Aren't ZIP disks preformatted? Mine were. They were even soft partitioned and soft formatted with one partition at offset 32 in slice s4 and an almost empty MSDOS file system in the slice. The easiest way to put a ufs on such disks is to run /sbin/fdisk to change the slice type from MSDOS to FreeBSD. Then disklabel them and newfs them as usual. If you don't want to use partitions, clear the partition table using `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd2 count=1'. This takes about 40 msec :-). > * disklabel -w -r sd2 zipdisk > - The following entry is in my /etc/disktab. I've forgotten who > posted this to the mail list. > > zipdisk|100 MB ZIP disk:\ > :ty=removeable:dt=SCSI:\ > :se#512:nt#64:ns#32:nc#96:\ > :pa#196576:oa#0:ta=4.2BSD:\ > :pc#196576:oc#0: This disktab entry has several minor bugs: - ZIP disks are only 96 MB. - the size of the `c' partition is 32 less than the size of the whole disk (32*64*96 = 196608). The preformatted MSDOS partition has offset 32, but this is irrelevant for unpartitioned disks. Using a too-small value for `pc' justs wastes space and causes warnings if the system was booted with -v. The entry is more seriously wrong for the partitioned case. It describes a disk with 32*64*96 = 196608 sectors, but the slice has only 196576 sectors. Use nc#95 and su#196576 to describe the slice properly. /etc/disktab is inconvenient to use. The simplest way to label the whole of a ZIP disk is: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd2 count=2 # count=1 would have worked for an unlabeled disk. count=2 # is to clear both the partition table in sector 1, if any # and the label in sector 2, if any. disklabel -Brw sd2 auto disklabel -e sd2 # edit to add partitions other than `c' The `auto' type only works for dedicated disks. `disklabel -Brw sd2 auto' is equivalent to: disklabel /dev/rsd2 | disklabel -BRr sd2 /dev/stdin Here the first disklabel prints the automatically generated label for the whole disk (/dev/rsd2) to stdout and the second disklabel interprets its input file /dev/stdin and turns it into a label for the BSD compatibility slice on the disk (sd2). The compatibility slice happens to cover the same sectors as the whole disk in this case. More complicated cases can be handled by editing the label running the second disklabel, either in a pipeline or directly: disklabel /dev/rsd2 >/tmp/foo $EDITOR /tmp/foo # reduce all relevant sizes for slice s2 disklabel -BRr sd2s2 /tmp/foo # apply label to slice s2 >This is all well and good. It works nicely but I have two problems: the >first is when I mount the disk I get the following on my xconsole > > sd2(ahc0:5:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:28,0 > sd2(ahc0:5:0): Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed > sd2(ahc0:5:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > sd2 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry This bug is very old. It is normal after a disk change, and seems to be harmless. Debugger("") is sometimes caled too. > sd2: invalid primary partition table: no magic This is caused by not writing boot blocks to the disk. Use `disklabel -B...' to write boot blocks. > sd2: raw partition size != slice size > sd2: start 0, end 196607, size 196608 > sd2c: start 0, end 196575, size 196576 This is caused by the `c' partition size being 32 smaller than necessary. See above. >the other problem is > >superior# df . >Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on >/dev/sd2c 95343 1 87715 0% /mnt >superior# > >It's bad enough that you don't get 100 meg that you would think but where >did the other 7.6 meg go to ? I understand that some gets lost in laying There were 96*1024 = 98304 blocks to begin with. 16 were lost by using the wrong size for the partitions :-). 98304-16-95343 = 2945 were used or reserved for metadata. 95343-87715 = 7628 = 8% of 96343 were reserved for efficient block allocation (see other replies). About 11% is reserved altogether. Wastage can be reduced using newfs options and/or tunefs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 02:48:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA27796 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from empire.hw.nl (empire.hw.nl [194.151.67.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27784 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from orac.hw.nl (orac.hw.nl [192.168.2.7]) by empire.hw.nl (8.8.5/1.00) with SMTP id LAA09218 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:47:46 +0100 (MET) Received: by orac.hw.nl id LAA21802; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:47:10 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:47:10 +0100 From: peter@hw.nl (Peter Korsten) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: bisdn X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is someone working on porting bisdn (the Teles ISDN card driver) and the PPP-support to 2.2? I started on it, but ran into some trouble (like, the kernel will compile, but won't link) and I don't want to re-invent the wheel. - Peter -- Peter Korsten | peter@hw.nl | http://www.hw.nl/~peter/ Haesenbos, Wetzels & Van der Heijden Multimedia Support 'Never EVER mess with a jumper you don't know about, even if it's labeled "sex and free beer".' -Dave Haynie, Amiga developer From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 02:57:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28066 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip31-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28061 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:57:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA24690; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:52:52 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199701221052.FAA24690@hda.hda.com> Subject: Under the desktop In-Reply-To: <12509.853847050@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 21, 97 03:44:10 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:52:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Back from -chat) Someone: > > > > I kind of thought that the free Unices were all about the desktop market > > > > and recapturing the power Jordan: > > > > > > No. UNIX on the desktop is dead... (...) > > > ... We're a server OS now with minimal desktop functionality. me: > > No, wrong direction. Go under the desktop. The opportunity has > > traditionally come in at a lower point then the established base. > > Think $50.00 VAX 11/750 and where it could be applied. > > > > MS is going to aggressively battle the top end with NT while > > crippling the bottom end to avoid cannibalizing their product line - > > witness the purposefully broken server side named pipes in W95. > (...) > What do you suggest? > > Jordan Here are a few reference platforms in the net market. FreeBSD is present in some of them. 1. Big server system used in internet and intranet applications; 2. Oracle network computer box / computer lab box 3. Cheap disk based network server; 4. No moving parts network server; 5. Wicked cheap network interface. 1 and 2 are where the big boys are slugging it out, and 1 is where I think Jordan said we are positioned. 4 and 5 are where java boxes are supposed to plug in. I think that BSD solutions plug 3 and 4 well, and I think that Java underestimates what can be done at that level without, er, shifting your paradigm. I'm interested in 5 and have some ideas but believe that there is a lot of development work needed to do that job right. For me it would be the most fun, though. 1 for smaller ISPs and 1 together with 2 in the computer lab is probably the easiest market for FreeBSD to play in outside of general hacking. NT is going to try to steamroller that market. 3 is the reference VAX 11/750 platform - say 4MB RAM, 350MB disk, ethernet, etc. 4 is the no-moving-parts system that boots off the net and does some limited application - provides a net interface to a piece of production equipment or expensive copier, etc. Applications for 3 include fax machines, high end scanners, etc. Applications for 4 include manufacturing test, test equipment, PROM burners, bus analyzers, etc - all of those things that people make you inconveniently dedicate a PC for. There isn't anything earth shattering here, only a few implied requirements on support tools and regression testing. 2, 3, and 4 all need tools that have a small footprint in the target and run remotely and that can easily be applied to multiple systems at once. For example, in your computer lab you want to network boot something into the install program and have the probing and kernel configuration for a sysinstall driven by the server. 4 needs some pieces that we don't have but that can probably be assembled just by shelling out some money and writing a little code; I'm considering prototyping that and welcome people sending me what they think they need. Ramble on, Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 03:46:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA29616 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA29611 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA14142; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:48:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id MAA06114; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:47:34 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701221147.MAA06114@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: bisdn In-Reply-To: from Peter Korsten at "Jan 22, 97 11:47:10 am" To: peter@hw.nl (Peter Korsten) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:47:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is someone working on porting bisdn (the Teles ISDN card driver) and > the PPP-support to 2.2? I started on it, but ran into some trouble > (like, the kernel will compile, but won't link) and I don't want to > re-invent the wheel. Why not discuss this in the (b)isdn-list? I'm currently trying to get it working under 3.0 but a bucnh of problems pile up here as well. > > - Peter > -- > Peter Korsten | peter@hw.nl | http://www.hw.nl/~peter/ > Haesenbos, Wetzels & Van der Heijden Multimedia Support > 'Never EVER mess with a jumper you don't know about, even if it's > labeled "sex and free beer".' -Dave Haynie, Amiga developer > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 03:58:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA00128 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk ([193.122.171.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA00116 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:58:18 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id LAA03083; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:56:57 GMT Received: from "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/" by net-tel.co.uk (Route400-RFCGate); Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:06 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:06 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:03 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:01 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:24536-970122115401-69CF] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:01 +0000 X400-Content-Identifier: Re: bisdn Message-Id: <"6617-970122115107-6953*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: peter@hw.nl Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: bisdn Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is someone working on porting bisdn (the Teles ISDN card driver) and > the PPP-support to 2.2? I started on it, but ran into some trouble > (like, the kernel will compile, but won't link) and I don't want to > re-invent the wheel. BISDN itself already applies without problems to FreeBSD-2.2, apart from /sys/conf/files where the patch fails but is obvious how to fix. For the PPP stuff, see http://www.arg1.demon.co.uk/ for a compilation of the work by Stefan Grefen and Gary Jennejohn, which I have organized to apply cleanly to FreeBSD-2.2. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 04:36:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA02223 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02217 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.4/8.7.3) id MAA01343; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:43:56 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199701221243.MAA01343@veda.is> Subject: Re: reboot(8) and slow-dying processes In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 22, 97 09:15:51 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:43:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > reboot(8) is very unforgiving in that it only allows 5 seconds for > > processes to tidy up and exit gracefully, but there may be processes > > that need a longer delay before they are slaughtered as a last > > resort (for instance large database applications). > > The projected solution to this is rc.shutdown, with an adjustable > `grace time' (maximum period init should wait for the processes to > complete shutting down). > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Okay, that looks good. The situation at the moment is rather horrendous and there is inconsistency in how this is implemented (comparing reboot and init). 'reboot' reboot: SIGTERM and wait 5 seconds reboot: SIGKILL up to 5 times, waiting 2,4,6,8,10 seconds respectively kill(1, SIGTERM) init: SIGHUP and wait for up to 10 seconds init: SIGTERM and wait for up to 10 seconds init: SIGKILL and wait for up to 10 seconds reboot always waits the fixed time, but init only waits while there are still unfinished processes. reboot does not send a SIGHUP but init does. Jörg, are you saying that a hook to rc.shutdown is needed for both programs, or that reboot will eventually become a control panel for init? (perhaps also /etc/init.conf to adjust the defaults) -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 04:37:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA02298 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02291 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id NAA04262; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:36:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA14670; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122123145.00b69350@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:46 +0100 To: Jaye Mathisen From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: FWIW Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:55 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > >8.8.5 of sendmail is out, apparently fixing some nasty security bug in >8.8.3 and 8.8.4. Since 8.8.4 is in the tree, we should upgrade ASAP. The security bug is reasonably minor; it is a question of not giving up group rights in some cases. The problem has been present quite a while (if it is the problem the description made it sound like), since 8.7.0 or something. (Not that we shouldn't fix it, but I'm not too concerned about it. Since you are concerned, perhaps you should upgrade the port? :) Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 04:38:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA02320 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02313 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id NAA04267; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:36:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA15031; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:12:13 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122131212.00b565f0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:12:14 +0100 To: kavitha From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: WIDE DHCP Cc: tomy@gunpowder.Stanford.EDU, hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:27 PM 1/21/97 -0500, kavitha wrote: >Hello, > 2. When I compile with the above modifications, while running it > gets stuck at open("/dev/bpf*",O_RDWR) in "initialize" in dhcpc_subr.c > with the message > "Can't open bpf to read the dhcp messages /dev/bpf9: No > such file or directory". > > Isn't it supposed to create the file if there is none? > Or am I supposed to keep some bpf files in /dev? (This part will go away when devfs is really operational - hopefully only a couple of months into the future) Run the following lines as root: # cd /dev # ./MAKEDEF bpf[n] where n is the maximum device number you want. (This part will go away the day when we get bpf as a kernel module; especially if it is demand-loaded :) You will also need to compile a kernel with bpf enabled; copying this ---- Cut here ---- # The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be # aware of the legal and administrative consequences of enabling this # option. The number of devices determines the maximum number of # simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable. pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter ---- Cut here ---- into your kernel config and re-creating your kernel should do the trick. (No, I haven't run mobile IP - I kan just comment on your problems with bpf.) Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 04:52:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA02996 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (seeuucp@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02988 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au with UUCP id AAA21646; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:09:36 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: melbourne.DIALix.oz.au: seeuucp set sender to mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au using -f Received: from putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au [10.0.0.1]) by doorway.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00474; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:48:52 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32E60CC9.A4@seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:49:13 +1100 From: Mark Hannon X-Sender: Mark Hannon (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org CC: support@xinside.com, epamha@epa.ericsson.se Subject: dtmail & NFS mounted /var/mail X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------2A0B566C18EF0" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ------------2A0B566C18EF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi again, Some more problems/issues with CDE. I am having some problems with dtmail accessing my /var/mail which is NFS mounted from my mail-server. I can't seem to update the inbox reliably and dtmail tends to crash when trying to do so.... I guess this is because we don't have any working NFS file-locking. Does anybody have any suggestions as to how one could get this working? I saw some mention of tooltalk helping me out here... is that true? (CDE is not installed on the mail-server). Thanks, Mark ------------2A0B566C18EF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
 Hi again,
 
Some more problems/issues with CDE.
 
I am having some problems with dtmail accessing my /var/mail which
is NFS mounted from my mail-server.  I can't seem to update the
inbox reliably and dtmail tends to crash when trying to do so....
 
I guess this is because we don't have any working NFS file-locking.
Does anybody have any suggestions as to how one could get this
working?
 
I saw some mention of tooltalk helping me out here... is that true?
(CDE is not installed on the mail-server).
 
Thanks, Mark
 
 
------------2A0B566C18EF0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 04:56:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA03132 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA03127 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail13.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) id HAA00099; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:45:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA21863; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:45:08 +0100 Message-Id: <9701221245.AA21863@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: isdn@muc.ditec.de Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message from Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk of Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:54:01 GMT. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: bisdn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 13:45:08 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk writes: > > Is someone working on porting bisdn (the Teles ISDN card driver) and > > the PPP-support to 2.2? I started on it, but ran into some trouble > > (like, the kernel will compile, but won't link) and I don't want to > > re-invent the wheel. > > BISDN itself already applies without problems to FreeBSD-2.2, apart from > /sys/conf/files where the patch fails but is obvious how to fix. > > For the PPP stuff, see http://www.arg1.demon.co.uk/ for a compilation > of the work by Stefan Grefen and Gary Jennejohn, which I have > organized to apply cleanly to FreeBSD-2.2. and greatly appreciated, too ! Several people will be working on getting this integrated into -current (aka 3.0). --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 05:30:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA04557 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04551; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA22911; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:30:15 -0800 (PST) To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: jkh@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:55:14 PST." <199701220855.AAA23547@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:30:15 -0800 Message-ID: <22906.853939815@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Helping with the Lite2 merge would be another way > > of making it worthwhile, of course. :-) > > Terry was one of the few people who actually reviewed the Lite2 patch > and he sent in detailed comments, which qualifies as a contribution in > my book. And I'm glad to hear that. And how's the Lite2 integration going, since you bring it up? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 05:51:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA05299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05294 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA23121; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:49:40 -0800 (PST) To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com cc: isdn@muc.ditec.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bisdn In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:45:08 +0100." <9701221245.AA21863@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:49:40 -0800 Message-ID: <23118.853940980@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > and greatly appreciated, too ! Several people will be working on getting > this integrated into -current (aka 3.0). Really? Awesome! I'd just about given up! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 06:18:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA06077 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from whyy.org (root@whyy.org [199.234.236.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06069 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:17:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tvmaster1.whyy.org (tvmaster1.whyy.org [199.234.236.48]) by whyy.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27580 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701221417.JAA27580@whyy.org> X-Sender: jehrenkrantz@whyy.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: "..je" Subject: Problems with 2.1.6-RELEASE install Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HI all! After two weeks of bashing my head against the wall, I submit! In a NUTshell, I am attempting to do a Ftp install of an older 386, To be used as a border router. 8 megs ram and 320megs hardrive across 2 drives. ne2000 compat nic. (GVC Technologies) I'm sitting on a fairly well connected T1 and have attempted to use ftp.freebsd.org as the source. Despite having received the message that the site has a dns entry the actual attempt to get the files fail with not being able to connect to the FreeBsd site. OK bunt! (different tack) I have on site and on the same network an account on a BSDI system on which I have mirrored the ftp.freebsd site. Having entered the local url,with subdirectory and proper ftp user ID info. The system logins into the account, changes into the appropiate main directory (2.1.6-RELEASE) then it attempts to change into the subdir and retreive the file ie: FtpGet(ftp,bin/bin.inf) from the 2.1.6-RELEASE parent result is "received <425 Can't build data connection: Operation timed out.>" FTP: No such file bin/bin.inf, moving on. this basicaly repeating for the entire list for extraction. This dispite All of the required files being there. The directory structure is as follows. home/FreeBSD/2.1.6-RELEASE/bin/ /floppies/ and so on. I am stumped!!!!!!!!!! Any Ideas for the trying? Thanks in Advance. ..je From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 06:18:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA06144 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06139 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03904 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16634 invoked by uid 110); 22 Jan 1997 14:18:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19970122141820.16633.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701220509.WAA23906@rocky.mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jan 21, 97 10:09:45 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:18:20 +1100 (EST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth solution, as > > > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > > I have doubts about such a system. How are the weights chosen? - Number of lines of code committed (using the count the semi-colens method?) - Number of lines of code committed multiplied by an elected coding quality weight? - Lines of code code in other free software projects/n + lines committed*m? - What is the weight for documentation? For make files? For user code? for vm code? - Should all weights be votable - dynamically adjusted according to votes * current weights? - Which is more stable? w1+w2+w3+w4=1 or w1*w2*w3*w4*w5=1? - How a new weights created? - How does one prevent factional deal making? - Will weights be applied retrospectively? - Should weights decline over time in the same manner as an infinitely trainable adaptive neural network? What about retrospectivity? On the one hand you entrench a pre-democratic feudal power structure and end up like Mandela's South Africa; a constitutionally reformed non-racially discriminatory capitalist society in which the blacks have all the votes, but the whites have all the capital. On the other (FreeBSD) hand the whites did all the work. Certainly a very interesting social engineering experiment; there is room here for long excursions into probability theory, game theory, cryptographic voting protocols (extending to protocols not traditionally seen as voting protocols such as Rabin's m/n secret sharing scheme), all excellent paper fodder. It would definitely attract a lot of welcome attention to FreeBSD. When viewed strictly as an experiment this idea has a lot of merit. If it actually pans out, then well and good, if not, then it could be used as some kind of Sawick poll. Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 06:19:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA06178 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (ravenock.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06169 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.4/8.7.3) id PAA05745; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:19:23 +0100 (MET) From: Sřren Schmidt Message-Id: <199701221419.PAA05745@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: bisdn In-Reply-To: <23118.853940980@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 22, 97 05:49:40 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:19:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, isdn@muc.ditec.de, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > and greatly appreciated, too ! Several people will be working on getting > > this integrated into -current (aka 3.0). > > Really? Awesome! I'd just about given up! :-) Hmm, I have downloaded the stuff, I'll try to get it setup here and try it out.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sřren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 06:32:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA06843 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06837 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:32:55 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA04095 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16799 invoked by uid 110); 22 Jan 1997 14:32:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19970122143231.16798.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: socket lookups: a proposal (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:32:31 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Wed Jan 22 10:23:26 1997 Return-Path: Delivered-To: proff@suburbia.net Received: (qmail 10048 invoked from network); 22 Jan 1997 10:23:13 -0000 Received: from roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (132.248.29.2) by suburbia.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 1997 10:23:13 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.6.12/8.6.11) id DAA19506 for netdev-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:55:53 -0600 Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA19501 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:55:45 -0600 Received: from pc5829.hil.siemens.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01806; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (mingo@localhost) by pc5829.hil.siemens.at (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA11881; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:31 +0100 (MET) From: Ingo Molnar To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx, Eric Schenk cc: Pedro Roque , "David S. Miller" Subject: Re: socket lookups: a proposal In-Reply-To: <199701212336.AAA23162@regin> Message-ID: Sender: owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx, Ingo Molnar On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Eric Schenk wrote: > >I don't really know a thing on how a processor cache operates (URLs are > >welcomed) but common sense would say that you are right on that... > >Unless you use a slab allocator to take your memory from a contiguos > >memory pool... > > Hmm. I'm not up on how strong the guarantees provided by the slab > allocator can be. David, you want to comment on this? my problem with the SLAB allocator is this radix tree case is that it doesnt 'compress' cache elements. ie. we will have a typical distance between nodes elements (even though we have fix slab pools of tightly packed node structures), due to the statistic pressure of creation and deletition of sockets. say, any workload that has a 'changing number of sockets', where we can have any number of sockets between say .. N and 2*N [this is arbitary, just for an example], and say N is ... 10000. Now, in the above workload. If we have a temporary peak of 20000 sockets, the SLAB cache is tightly filled. Now when we drop back to 10000 sockets, we still have almost the same number of slabs allocated. [because the deallocation happens random, and a slab can only be deallocated when we have the slab >completely< free. slabs are static in the sense that you cannot move cache elements] Not only the total memory usage, but the 'cache footprint' in any workload is dominated too by the maximum peak socket usage. [ in the above example, N sockets will most probably use 90% cache lines of the 2*N case, because elements do not fill a whole cache line and elements were deallocated randomly ] Thus to overcome this problem i propose to always choose the order of the radix tree in such a way, that a whole cache line is filled by exactly one node. Say: struct radix { struct radix * leaf[N]; struct socket * sock_addr; } N choosen in such a way that: sizeof(sock_addr) + sizeof(struct radix *) * N = cache_line_size This leads to a bit more memory usage in the 'many leaf' case, but IMHO utilizes caches much better. Another thing ... i do not like O(long N) for EVERY packet lookup, when we can have O(1) :). There aint as much workloads in the world, lets identify and use them ... maybe someone finds a cool hash function. -- mingo From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 06:37:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA07166 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from irbs.irbs.com (jc@irbs.irbs.com [199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07156 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09030; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:37:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:37:26 -0500 From: jc@irbs.com (John Capo) To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Driver for New SMC 10/100's References: <199701211348.IAA18505@goof.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Organization: IRBS Engineering, (954) 792-9551 In-Reply-To: <199701211348.IAA18505@goof.com>; from matthew c. mead on Jan 21, 1997 08:48:49 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoting matthew c. mead (mmead@goof.com): > I saw a thread with a patch and a couple of source code > suggestions to make the new revision of the SMC 10/100 Mbit > ethernet cards work properly, however, I couldn't get them to > work. Is there a known fix for 2.1.6? Thanks! > ftp://ftp.irbs.com/FreeBSD/pci/if_de.c adds support for the SMC9332BDT using a 21140A. I have not used this on a 100Mbs network. Works fine at 10Mbs. John Capo From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 08:23:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11332 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11327 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (mexico.brainstorm.fr) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA17984 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:22:48 -0800 Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA05361 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:20:44 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id RAA02072 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:20:39 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id RAA09583; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:10:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:10:04 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WIDE DHCP References: <9701212127.AA70203@hawpub1.watson.ibm.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58.1-8,11-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2944 In-Reply-To: <9701212127.AA70203@hawpub1.watson.ibm.com>; from kavitha on Jan 21, 1997 16:27:13 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to kavitha: > When I tried to run the WIDE implementaion DHCP, I'm facing the > following problems: > > 1. First of all it doesn't compile properly. Did you tried the port in net/wide-dhcp ? I assume it has all the proper patches to compile it. > 2. When I compile with the above modifications, while running it > gets stuck at open("/dev/bpf*",O_RDWR) in "initialize" in dhcpc_subr.c > with the message > "Can't open bpf to read the dhcp messages /dev/bpf9: No > such file or directory". > > Isn't it supposed to create the file if there is none? > Or am I supposed to keep some bpf files in /dev? You MUST have BPF into your kernel and some devices made in /dev to run DHCP. That means: - add "pseudo-device bpfilter N" in your kernel configuration file and recompile, - go into /dev and "sh MAKEDEV bpf0" .. "sh MAKEDEV bpfN". -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 08:34:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11820 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [207.173.16.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11814 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (fluffy.aros.net [207.173.16.2]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.8.5/Unknown) with ESMTP id JAA22192; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from fluffy.aros.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fluffy.aros.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA14250; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:33:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701221633.JAA14250@fluffy.aros.net> To: Eivind Eklund cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FWIW In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:46 +0100." <3.0.32.19970122123145.00b69350@dimaga.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:33:30 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Eivind Eklund > > At 01:55 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > > > > >8.8.5 of sendmail is out, apparently fixing some nasty security bug in > >8.8.3 and 8.8.4. Since 8.8.4 is in the tree, we should upgrade ASAP. > > The security bug is reasonably minor; it is a question of not giving up > group rights in some cases. The problem has been present quite a while (if > it is the problem the description made it sound like), since 8.7.0 or > something. > > (Not that we shouldn't fix it, but I'm not too concerned about it. Since > you are concerned, perhaps you should upgrade the port? :) You should be. :) Sendmail 8.8.5 fixes a remotely exploitable buffer overflow that (you guessed it) can let an outsider have root access to your system. A local account is not required to take advantage of this hole. (If you haven't upgraded to 8.8.5 yet, you should. Don't bother waiting for it to make it in to the tree. Sendmail 8.8.5 is available from ftp.sendmail.org and ftp.cert.org). -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 09:20:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14830 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14824 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA07983; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:20:04 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA07514 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:29:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id GAA06691; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:32:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701221132.GAA06691@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers, ponds!lakes.water.net!rivers Subject: 2.1.6.1 panic: ifree: freeing free inode Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well - I've been running 2.1.6.1 on this machine for a little over a week now; without my characteristic panic... It happened last night. This is with the 2.1.6.1 kernel downloaded from ftp.freebsd.org (i.e. the GENERIC one) unmodified; with a straightforward install (i.e. no special newfs parms.) Here's the traceback - nothing new really... ponds# gdb -k kernel.0 vmcore.0 GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.13 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc...(no debugging symbols found)... IdlePTD 21c000 current pcb at 20ded8 panic: ifree: freeing free inode #0 0xf01a26ff in boot () (kgdb) where #0 0xf01a26ff in boot () #1 0xf0114413 in panic () #2 0xf0183327 in ffs_vfree () #3 0xf01885b2 in ufs_inactive () #4 0xf012a589 in vrele () #5 0xf012a4eb in vput () #6 0xf018bae4 in ufs_remove () #7 0xf012c58e in unlink () #8 0xf01aaa76 in syscall () #9 0xf019febb in Xsyscall () #10 0x2d9a in ?? () #11 0x2b2a in ?? () #12 0x2507 in ?? () #13 0x19b9 in ?? () #14 0x10d3 in ?? () (kgdb) - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 09:35:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15811 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from bug.fe.up.pt (qmailr@bug.fe.up.pt [193.136.54.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15796 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 7036 invoked by uid 504); 22 Jan 1997 17:33:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:33:32 +0000 (WET) From: Jorge Miguel Goncalves To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ZIP Drive Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I am a FreeBSD fan but because my ISDN card isn't supported by FreeBSD I must use Linux :-( I am now going to buy a modem and switch to FreeBSD, but I also have a Parallel Port ZIP Drive... Is it supported by FreeBSD? I hope so :-) Thanks in advance. Jorge Goncalves BTW, mail me directly as I am not in this list. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 09:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16295 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16285; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) id MAA01063; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:46:41 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199701221746.MAA01063@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Terry To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:46:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org, jkh@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <22906.853939815@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 22, 97 05:30:15 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Helping with the Lite2 merge would be another way > > > of making it worthwhile, of course. :-) > > > > Terry was one of the few people who actually reviewed the Lite2 patch > > and he sent in detailed comments, which qualifies as a contribution in > > my book. > > And I'm glad to hear that. And how's the Lite2 integration going, > since you bring it up? :-) > I have been working on it -- been sick for the last few weeks, and going to take a stab at it this weekend. (Watch out!!!) John Dyson dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 09:47:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16363 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16314; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:47:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id SAA08172; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA17586; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:52 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122184152.00b7eec0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:54 +0100 To: Dave Andersen From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: FWIW Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:33 AM 1/22/97 -0700, Dave Andersen wrote: > >> From: Eivind Eklund >> >> At 01:55 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Jaye Mathisen wrote: >> > >> > >> >8.8.5 of sendmail is out, apparently fixing some nasty security bug in >> >8.8.3 and 8.8.4. Since 8.8.4 is in the tree, we should upgrade ASAP. >> >> The security bug is reasonably minor; it is a question of not giving up >> group rights in some cases. The problem has been present quite a while (if >> it is the problem the description made it sound like), since 8.7.0 or >> something. Well, this was what I was informed. If I'd read BugTraq before reading freebsd-hackers, I would have known better. There is a MIME overflow bug - which at least some lints (flexelint, for sure) would have caught. A patch is included below. BTW: How do people feel about making FreeBSD (or at least the header files) flexelint clean? I could do the actual work (starting in a few weeks, as soon as I get my non-work machine home), but it would take a _LOT_ of commits, involving mainly comment addition to suppress warnings. (flexelint use control comments to suppress warnings). Real code changes would only happen in those cases where bugs were uncovered. >> (Not that we shouldn't fix it, but I'm not too concerned about it. Since >> you are concerned, perhaps you should upgrade the port? :) > > You should be. :) Sendmail 8.8.5 fixes a remotely exploitable buffer >overflow that (you guessed it) can let an outsider have root access to >your system. A local account is not required to take advantage of this >hole. I don't have to - I'm running an older version with only the bugfixes from newer versions, to avoid this kind of surprise. :) (In addition my host is firewalled, recieving all mail by UUCP from another secure host. Only DNS is available below 1024.) > (If you haven't upgraded to 8.8.5 yet, you should. Don't bother waiting >for it to make it in to the tree. Sendmail 8.8.5 is available from >ftp.sendmail.org and ftp.cert.org). Patch for the serious bug (which is there, right enough, in 8.8.4, and probably 8.8.3): diff -r -c sendmail-8.8.4/src/mime.c sendmail-8.8.5/src/mime.c *** sendmail-8.8.4/src/mime.c Sun Nov 24 07:27:26 1996 --- sendmail-8.8.5/src/mime.c Tue Jan 14 17:21:22 1997 *************** *** 36,42 **** # include #ifndef lint ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mime.c 8.51 (Berkeley) 11/24/96"; #endif /* not lint */ /* --- 36,42 ---- # include #ifndef lint ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mime.c 8.54 (Berkeley) 1/14/97"; #endif /* not lint */ /* *************** *** 958,967 **** register char *p; char *cte; char **pvp; - u_char *obp; u_char *fbufp; char buf[MAXLINE]; - u_char obuf[MAXLINE + 1]; u_char fbuf[MAXLINE + 1]; char pvpbuf[MAXLINE]; extern u_char MimeTokenTab[256]; --- 958,965 ---- *************** *** 1045,1053 **** c2 = CHAR64(c2); *fbufp = (c1 << 2) | ((c2 & 0x30) >> 4); ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); --- 1043,1052 ---- c2 = CHAR64(c2); *fbufp = (c1 << 2) | ((c2 & 0x30) >> 4); ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || ! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); *************** *** 1057,1065 **** continue; c3 = CHAR64(c3); *fbufp = ((c2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((c3 & 0x3c) >> 2); ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); --- 1056,1065 ---- continue; c3 = CHAR64(c3); *fbufp = ((c2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((c3 & 0x3c) >> 2); ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || ! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); *************** *** 1069,1103 **** continue; c4 = CHAR64(c4); *fbufp = ((c3 & 0x03) << 6) | c4; ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); fbufp = fbuf; } } - - /* force out partial last line */ - if (fbufp > fbuf) - { - *fbufp = '\0'; - putline((char *) fbuf, mci); - } } else { /* quoted-printable */ ! obp = obuf; while (fgets(buf, sizeof buf, e->e_dfp) != NULL) { ! if (mime_fromqp((u_char *) buf, &obp, 0, &obuf[MAXLINE] - obp) == 0) continue; ! putline((char *) obuf, mci); ! obp = obuf; } } if (tTd(43, 3)) printf("\t\t\tmime7to8 => %s to 8bit done\n", cte); --- 1069,1105 ---- continue; c4 = CHAR64(c4); *fbufp = ((c3 & 0x03) << 6) | c4; ! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) { ! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || ! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) fbufp++; *fbufp = '\0'; putline((char *) fbuf, mci); fbufp = fbuf; } } } else { /* quoted-printable */ ! fbufp = fbuf; while (fgets(buf, sizeof buf, e->e_dfp) != NULL) { ! if (mime_fromqp((u_char *) buf, &fbufp, 0, ! &fbuf[MAXLINE] - fbufp) == 0) continue; ! putline((char *) fbuf, mci); ! fbufp = fbuf; } + } + + /* force out partial last line */ + if (fbufp > fbuf) + { + *fbufp = '\0'; + putline((char *) fbuf, mci); } if (tTd(43, 3)) printf("\t\t\tmime7to8 => %s to 8bit done\n", cte); Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 10:29:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18556 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:29:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from maeve.physics.utoronto.ca (maeve.physics.utoronto.ca [128.100.78.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18545 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pnadeau@localhost) by maeve.physics.utoronto.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01798 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:20:48 GMT From: Patrick Nadeau Message-Id: <199701221320.NAA01798@maeve.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: IBM TR driver -- thanks! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:20:48 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone who wrote in with offers of help in testing, with hardware donations and simply with encouragement relative to the writing of an IBM token ring driver. I am keeping a list of prospective testers. When the driver is mature enough to be considered Alpha code I will get in contact with you. Sorry to have to reply with this `form letter' but I won't have a chance to reply to everyone before leaving for a much overdue vacation. It's nice to see there is still a place for cooperation in the increasingly commercial and M$-ized world of computers. Again, thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 11:15:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20906 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20901 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vn889-0001yb-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:14:41 -0700 To: Jason Thorpe Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:10:42 PST." <199701220410.UAA08396@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> References: <199701220410.UAA08396@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:14:41 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199701220410.UAA08396@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Jason Thorpe writes: : ...ELF has one _major_ losing, IMO... No tag that specifies the ABI. : You see "ELF for SPARC". That's it. That's a bummer. There are nonstandard ways around this... There is also OLF, which is ELF + a couple of things. The only reason I need ELF on my system is to run Linux or Solaris x86 binaries... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 11:17:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21042 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA21036 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vn896-0001yn-00; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:15:40 -0700 To: "Brian N. Handy" Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:34:11 PST." References: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:15:40 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message "Brian N. Handy" writes: : Well, my favorite quote so far is the one regarding the bottle of : Benzedrine and the plastic Jesus hanging from the rear view, on a : spiritual journey to SLC. :-) : : Shopping the goodwill stores for MY plastic Jesus, I read this initially as "Jesus Mallory" and wondered why you wanted a plastic Jesus :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 11:30:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21863 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21858 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17406; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:28:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701221928.LAA17406@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:28:55 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:14:41 -0700 Warner Losh wrote: > There are nonstandard ways around this... > > There is also OLF, which is ELF + a couple of things. ...can you please point me at the standards document that describes OLF? I've seen OpenBSD activity in this area, but, quite frankly, I'm only willing to consider that approach if it's defined by a published standard. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:18:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24407 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24399 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA03989; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:17:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: "Gregory A. Gilliss" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3C589 'C' and 3C589 'D' In-Reply-To: <199701212246.OAA04466@localhost.netpublishing.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Gregory A. Gilliss wrote: > I hacked the if_zp.c code a little and it appears that the get_eeprom_base > function is returning a bad value from the card (0xffff) both times through, > which in turn is causing the comparison between the stated based address > (0x300) in the kernel config and the card's address to fail. > > Yes, it looks/works fine using the DOS/Windoze 3com diskette. > > Would they *really* change the layout of the EEPROM, or does the zp driver > just get lucky when it goes looking for the base address? Perhaps. This is the fourth revision of this card, they are no doubt going to make changes. > Both possibilities are kinda hard to swallow. But if they did change the > PROM and someone can get the new port numbers, I'll gladly patch the driver > rather than send back the card (Mfr. date is 12/24/96). Ask 3com, and you will probably receive. :) Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:20:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24643 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24626 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22069; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:03:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701222003.NAA22069@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:03:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jan 21, 97 11:27:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How can "thought police" have an effect in a machine-arbitrated > > environment? The point of machine-arbitration is the elimination > > of the possibility (and as a side effect, the perception) of "thought > > police". > > Yes, our development is much more controlled than Linux's is, but putting > further controls on it is going to magnify the perception of FreeBSD's > tighter control. It doesn't matter if the end effect is more or less > freedom, the perception is the only thing of importance. > > We have the "perception of thought police", yes, so we shouldn't move > towards making that perception stronger. It is ridiculous and ineffective to try to "spin doctor" this way. "Never substitute activity for action" -- Seneca, Stoic Philospher, 1st century B.C. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:35:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA25630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA25625 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA22104; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:19:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701222019.NAA22104@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:19:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21891.853914548@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 21, 97 10:29:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are no signs anywhere, Terry, either on or off the "restricted > access campus" (and that campus is smaller than you think - write > access to the CVS repository is basically ALL we really control). That's a shame. It means no one can find the project to deliver fan mail assistance packages, etc.. > We're making this up as we go along, to be perfectly frank (I looked > for "How to create your own free operating system project" at Barnes & > Nobel but didn't have much luck), and as far as I know the purpose of > the core team is really to provide a focus for existing (and sometimes > conflicting) visions more than it is to be a wellspring of vision > itself. It's in the business management section for managing any business with an inconstant resource component. This includes, but is not limited to, businesses relying on creative artistic endeavors (which by their nature, can not be completion scheduled or resource leveled) and/or volunteer labor. It's right next to the books on Non-Profit and Tax Exempt corporations and S corps in general. > > I will be taking Julian up on his offer once I can get a new CVSup > > set up for my local machine, and start migrating changes. Wherever > > Poul offered "half an hour ago", I haven't seen it; was the other > > list the core team list? I'm not on that list. > > This was last raised then, but Poul says that he's made the offer > repeatedly before now and this is hardly the first time it's come up. > You really don't remember any offer from Poul to give you access > to a machine where you could put your bits? Strange. I remember him making the offer in the past, with his ability to *do* anything being predicated on the Lite2 integration. I did not see one in the "last half hour" (tagged relative time stamp). If he can't do anything, then there's no reason to "hurry up an wait" until he can. > > In any case, I plan to take Julian up on his offer... though I was led > > Great! > > > to believe that the effort wouldn't be worthwhile until the Lite2 > > integration was complete (something Poul and I *had* discussed when he > > originally made his offer right before my accident). Is it now > > worthwhile because the Lite2 integration is complete? Or is it > > now worthwhile because the Lite2 integration has been scrapped? > > Well, Lite2 may well prove a short-term inconvenience, but that > doesn't prevent you from putting your code up for review in the > interim. Helping with the Lite2 merge would be another way > of making it worthwhile, of course. :-) Lite2's "short term inconvenience" is now verging on it's second year (in 3.5 months it will have its anniversary). It needs to time out soon. 8-(. > > Actually, I just mean "acceptable" in the sense of "capable of being > > accepted". That's why I used that "able" suffix and didn't use the > > word "guarantee" in there anywhere. > > To you and Richard: Anything which solves the make ordering problems > (/usr/src is not "self contained"), deals with cross-platform builds > and/or generally makes the Makefiles easier to understand (since > further obfuscation is hardly desirable) is welcome. If you want a > reviewer, I'll be happy to volunteer. Thank you for the problem scope definition. I'm pretty sure Richard will take you up on this now that he can measure his ideas for "in scope" and "out of scope". > > I'm asking for you to tell me what the shelf where the happy meals > > are stacked looks like so I can build a happy meal that won't fall > > on the floor. I'm not asking you to build happy meal boxes for > > It's at this point that the analogy starts to break down. :-) I don't > know what consistutes a "shelf" in the analgous side of this picture. Neither do I; where do you want these happy meals stacked? 8-) 8-). > > I grasp the concept of evolutionary progress... I simply don't bow > > to it as if it were a god just to keep all the peasants bowing along > > with me. It is inefficient compared to revolutionary progress, and > > That may be, but revolutionary progress from someone who has yet to > demonstrated prowess at working with the group over even small issues > is not what we're looking for either. What's so terrible about a > little dating first before deciding on marriage? :-) Teen pregnancy? What's wrong with arranged marriages? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:45:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26254 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:45:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26242 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04820 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:45:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Erroneous Ierrs from vx0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I just purchased a 3com Etherlink XL PCI ethenet card and it's working great on 2.2-BETA, except for one thing: gdi,ttyp1,~,12>netstat -i Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts OerrsColl vx0 1500 00.a0.24.ba.13.f8 76188 44915 23649 00 vx0 1500 128.223.170/2 gdi 76188 44915 23649 00 I wasn't getting these errors from an NE2000, and the card appears to be working perfectly otherwise. Same cable, same resources. I tried rebuilding the kernel from clean sources with no change. I don't see anything in the archives regarding this. Is this just a nuance or is there something I should check? Thanks for any insight. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:48:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26459 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26450 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA11774; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:43:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E67B5A.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:40:58 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com CC: isdn@muc.ditec.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bisdn References: <9701221245.AA21863@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk garyj@frt.dec.com wrote: > > Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk writes: > > > Is someone working on porting bisdn (the Teles ISDN card driver) and > > > the PPP-support to 2.2? I started on it, but ran into some trouble > > > (like, the kernel will compile, but won't link) and I don't want to > > > re-invent the wheel. > > > > BISDN itself already applies without problems to FreeBSD-2.2, apart from > > /sys/conf/files where the patch fails but is obvious how to fix. > > > > For the PPP stuff, see http://www.arg1.demon.co.uk/ for a compilation > > of the work by Stefan Grefen and Gary Jennejohn, which I have > > organized to apply cleanly to FreeBSD-2.2. > I have completed my BSD networking framework. it is in some ways in teh same ecological niche as STREAMS I'd like to show it to some of the ISDN crew to see if it is of any use tho them it mad my frame relay stuff a snap, and now pacbell are offering Frame over ISDN B channel. I want to be able to get some ISDN experience with the framework.. for a white-paper, send email. stefan.. this is an evolutionary leap forward from what we were describing before.. I'd like your comments. Archie (our ppp guru (wrote the multilink ppp daemon)) is writing a PPP module for it as we speak.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 12:59:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26937 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26930 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA14744 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.8.5/8.8.2) id VAA14751; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:56:29 +0100 (MET) From: Guido van Rooij Message-Id: <199701222056.VAA14751@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Underscore in domainname? In-Reply-To: from "Allen W. Gambert" at "Jan 16, 97 10:13:18 am" To: gambert@cftnet.com (Allen W. Gambert) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:56:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Allen W. Gambert wrote: > Yeah, I had the same problem. We've mailed mcafee letting them know of > this problem. The only way around this is to put an entry in your hosts > file for that machine, ie, > > 205.227.129.164 www.mcafee.com > Not true. There is a variable setting in resolv.conf where you can either ignore `broken' hostnames, give warnings, or refuse them. man 5 resolv.conf is your friend -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 13:29:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28586 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28553 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09799; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:24:42 GMT Message-Id: <199701222124.VAA09799@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Charles Mott cc: Eivind Eklund , ari.suutari@carel.fi, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipdivert & masqd In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:46:18 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:24:42 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Brian, > > I am travelling right now (this is from a university terminal that I > stopped by). Regarding the IP checksum -- in version 1.8, I went > todifferential checksumming which will not work as I see it described > with one cirection of the divert socket. > > Definetly people should try to test Ari's natd, I think. I am still in > 2.1.0-R and therefore too backwrrads to test it. > > Charles Mott The masqd code now works. It passes the packet to PacketAlias{In|Out}() with a potentially zero'd ip_sum (PacketAliasIn() packets) and recomputes a zero sum afterwards. The only other thing needed was a call to SetAliasAddress(). Any feedback from people would be great - the code can be found on www.awfulhak.demon.co.uk. Perhaps it might be a good idea to make an "alias" library out of this stuff, that way, it can be ported to different environments easily. So far, the code written is rather trivial - it screams to be a library ! I'll write again when I've polished the code (and maybe written a man page). I havn't seen the natd code yet - I've seen reports that it's difficult to get to the web page it's on ;( However, I like masqd hugely as it's so simple. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 13:52:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29807 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA29801 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA28446; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Backup Tape Drives Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey Folks, Looking for a quick opinion: I have a guy thinking about buying an Internal Eagle Extra TR-3 Exabyte Tape drive for his FreeBSD/Win95 system. It's a SCSI drive. Any reason this wouldn't be a good choice? Thanks, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 13:52:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29835 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (-@quake.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29830 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) id PAA28119; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:24 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:23 -0600 From: dnelson@emsphone.com (Dan Nelson) To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu (Doug White) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Erroneous Ierrs from vx0 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from "Doug White" on Jan 22, 1997 12:45:25 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the last episode (Jan 22), Doug White said: > Hello! > > I just purchased a 3com Etherlink XL PCI ethenet card and it's working > great on 2.2-BETA, except for one thing: > > gdi,ttyp1,~,12>netstat -i > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts OerrsColl > vx0 1500 00.a0.24.ba.13.f8 76188 44915 23649 00 > vx0 1500 128.223.170/2 gdi 76188 44915 23649 00 > > I wasn't getting these errors from an NE2000, and the card appears to be > working perfectly otherwise. Same cable, same resources. I tried > rebuilding the kernel from clean sources with no change. > > I don't see anything in the archives regarding this. :) I had similar problems just last week trying to NFS mount an SCO disk onto a FreeBSD machine, both P6/200's. The SCO box had a PCI Intel EtherExpress Pro/100, the BSD box had a PCI 3c905 Fast Etherlink XL/100. I would only get the first 2 frags from the 8k NFS transactions. NFS's retries failed, since it would resend the whole 8k packet over (and, of course, only the first 2 frags would make it to the BSD box). A "netstat -i" on the BSD end gave me lots of ierrs, but I saw no console messages. Seems the vx0 driver doesn't print error messages unless you go into debugging mode. Do an "ifconfig vx0 debug" to enable them, and watch all the "RX overrun"/"packet overrun"/"fifo underrun" messages spew out. I swapped the 3com card with an Intel EE Pro/100B (fxp driver) and my problems disappeared. I suspect one of the DEC chipset cards would do fine also. I've noticed that when I run 3Com's DOS config program that the card reports 5K of receive buffers and 3K of send buffers. Is this really all there is on the card? If so, I can understand the NFS problem, but I can't believe a 100mbit card woud have such small buffers. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 13:59:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA00295 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com ([207.152.98.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00289 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:59:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from crocodile.vale.com (crocodile [204.117.217.147]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09765; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:57:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from stargate1 (stargate1.vale.com [204.117.217.100]) by crocodile.vale.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25108; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:57:45 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32E68D58.7C58@vailsys.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:57:44 -0600 From: Dan Riley Reply-To: driley@vailsys.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0a1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place X-Priority: Normal References: <199701201850.LAA07568@chon.xinside.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk
I have been following the last few posts on this thread and am still undecided as wheather or not to purchase the Xinside server and the related bundled AcceleratedX stuff. Has it been a problem getting up and running and worth the effort of cleaning up X11R6?
 
Thanks for the advice
 
Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:
> 
> John Fieber writes:
>  > On 19 Jan 1997, Kim Culhan wrote:
>  >
>  > > I had XFree86 installed too but decided to follow Xinside's advice in the
>  > > docs and delete all of XFree except the Xinside xserver stuff which
>  > > was installed at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/AcceleratedX.
>  >
>  > Out of curiosity, does anyone know the nature of CDE's dependancy
>  > on the Accelerated X server?  I was thinking about getting CDE,
>  > but then noticed on the X Inside page about it it said that
>  > Accelerated X is required.
> 
> Hello John,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our AcceleratedX CDE.
> 
> We don't support CDE if you run an X server locally other than
> AcceleratedX.  This is due to the bugs in the XF86 code that we would
> otherwise have customers blaming us for.
> 
> As well, CDE makes heavy use of the X server, so you want a fast X
> server.  Bundled prices from resellers such as WGS
> (http://www.wgs.com/) usually include the AcceleratedX server at a
> discount.  The CDE CD-ROM includes both the Linux and FreeBSD
> versions; the CDE install script detects which OS you are running and
> does the right thing.
> 
>  >
>  > I'd also be interested to know how much memory (vss and typical
>  > rss) the window manager, session manager, file manager and
>  > friends sucks up.  On a 32 megabyte 100MHz Pentium box, would
>  > there be anything left to actually run anything without
>  > thrashing?
>  >
>  > -john
>  >
> 
> CDE -will- run even in 16MB.  However you will see some swapping even
> just switching between workspaces.  The 32MB that you have should be
> just fine, of course more memory is always better :-) .  Do remember
> that you are running (probably) a high-color X server + X clients +
> Motif libraries + Dtwm (based on mwm) + ToolTalk (RPC) daemons.
> Plus any other applications and daemons that you run.
> 
> The only reason that I have more than 32MB RAM in my machine is due to
> running a 12MB Netscape and a 20MB XEmacs process at the same time ;)
> 
> Cordially
> --
> Patrick Giagnocavo - support@xinside.com
> Xi Graphics  - Accelerated X Servers
> Technical Support Department
From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 14:36:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02047 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02038 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21815 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:35:50 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA01019 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:59:04 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199701221759.SAA01019@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Terry: a bystanders view... To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:59:03 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion serves any purpose. ;-) Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:01:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03383 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03331 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA06772 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:00:45 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id AAA17251 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:00:43 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id XAA11159; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:58:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:58:46 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: reboot(8) and slow-dying processes References: <199701221243.MAA01343@veda.is> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58.1-8,11-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2944 In-Reply-To: <199701221243.MAA01343@veda.is>; from Adam David on Jan 22, 1997 12:43:55 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Adam David: > Jörg, are you saying that a hook to rc.shutdown is needed for both programs, > or that reboot will eventually become a control panel for init? > (perhaps also /etc/init.conf to adjust the defaults) I think it is better that way. reboot/halt send a signal to init and init runs /etc/rc.shutdown (which will maybe run a few other scripts ŕ la rc.d) then brings the system down. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:10:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03877 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gloworm.Stanford.EDU (gloworm.Stanford.EDU [171.64.96.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03865 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:10:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (yergeau@localhost) by gloworm.Stanford.EDU (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA08703 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:10:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701222310.PAA08703@gloworm.Stanford.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2's gcc/g++/ld and -frepo Reply-To: yergeau@gloworm.Stanford.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:10:53 -0800 From: Dan Yergeau Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Will 2.2-RELEASE contain a working g++ with -frepo (template repositories)? There is a Cygnus patch for this (if you are not already aware of it). The only glitch with the patch is that it needs to use collect2 wrapper instead of relying only on the native ld. Thanks for any information. Dan Yergeau yergeau@gloworm.Stanford.EDU From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:13:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04008 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au [130.102.222.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA03996 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdr@localhost) by ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA11950; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:10:31 +1000 From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <199701222310.JAA11950@ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Terry To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:10:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701222019.NAA22104@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 22, 97 01:19:37 pm Organisation: The University of Queensland Phone: +617 3844 0400 Reply-To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > That may be, but revolutionary progress from someone who has yet to > > demonstrated prowess at working with the group over even small issues > > is not what we're looking for either. What's so terrible about a > > little dating first before deciding on marriage? :-) > > Teen pregnancy? > > What's wrong with arranged marriages? How about (usually) the female having to be totally subservient to the male? In the Jordan / Terry `arranged marriage', the mind boggles at the thought of either of you two having to play that female role ... Yep, a few trips down `lovers lane' wouldn't hurt a bit :-). Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 3844 0400 Fax +617 3844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:17:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:17:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04234 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26632; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:16:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:16:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... In-Reply-To: <199701221759.SAA01019@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Normally I would agree, but I file all of Jordan's in my "Witty things I wish I would've thought to say" folder, and all of Terry's go in my "When I can't sleep at night, I'll try to wrap my brain around this" folder. If there was a nitpicker list, I would feel guilty subscribing just to enjoy the entertainment value. On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Hi there > > Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why > you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > serves any purpose. ;-) > > Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. > > Wilko > _ ____________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands > |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05084 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05079 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA22351 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:14:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701222314.QAA22351@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? (fwd from Lee Crites) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:14:07 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: >From adonai@jump.net Tue Jan 21 21:13:56 1997 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970122042506.006a03c8@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:25:06 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: Kernel driver source installer? Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org Since I'm probably still killed on the freebsd.org system, I'll send this to you and let you do with it as you please... At 17:51 21-01-97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >Uh, why should you have to reboot? The act of placing the driver object >in the directory should place it in your kernel... Check out aix. You can build kernel extensions with impunity. To quote the "AIX RS/6000 as a REAL-TIME SYSTEM" redbook: "The AIX kernel is a dynamically extendable kernel that can be expanded by adding device drivers, system calls, kernel services, or private kernel routines. Extensinos can be added at system boot time or while the system is in operation." And it works. >If you keep making these things easy without a real soloution, >where is the "squeaky wheel" incentive for a real soloution? 8-) 8-). I'm not trying to be a 'squeaky wheel' here, but this is a real possibility. There are good systems we can model off of. The Sequent, for one, with it's real-time, on-line kernel tuning. And, as I have already said, aix with it's ability to add kernel extensions on the fly. Having been on the kernel extension writing end of things, I can appreciate how complex it would be to configure a live, running kernel that can accept aribrary extensions on the fly. However, making something that can link/re-link on reboot wouldn't be as difficult. I am currently working in an environment where they are rather heavy into aix boxes. The new unix sa, who worked for ibm in the aix development area for years and years followed by several jobs as aix sa, couldn't imagine a need to ever rebuild the kernel! When he loaded linux on a box and was confronted with having to actually do it, it was just a little more than he could handle for a while. My point here is if we continue to think of things in terms of a single paradigm, that is all we will ever see, thus the only solutions we will ever come up with. If, on the other hand, we continue to expand our vision, we will be able to come up with much better solutions. Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:30:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05146 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05139 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA14958 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:30:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA22344; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:12:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701222312.QAA22344@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:12:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701220410.UAA08396@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Jan 21, 97 08:10:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't know what architectural problems you're referring to. There > > aren't any in the object format itself that seem severe to me. > > ...ELF has one _major_ losing, IMO... No tag that specifies the ABI. > You see "ELF for SPARC". That's it. That's a bummer. > > But, that's really my only gripe with it :-) That's actually supposed to be a feature: it is not permitted to have more than one ABI. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:36:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05736 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05731 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA22372; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:19:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701222319.QAA22372@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:19:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701220514.WAA23918@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 21, 97 10:14:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan wrote: > > > I think you're working from a misperception. The core team doesn't > > > spend its time sitting around rubbing its collective hands together > > > and going "Mooohahahaha! POWER!" so it's not likely to consider this > > > in terms of power loss so much as it is in terms of how much workload > > > is generated. [ ... ] Nate writes: > Umm, I think you are working from a misperception. The core team > doesn't have anything to do with determining the 'workload' of FreeBSD. Jordan is talking in terms of workload generated. If you don't like the assumptive framework, talk to Jorden. I'm just responding in the framework that has been established. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:42:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06264 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fog.xinside.com (fog.xinside.com [199.164.187.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06236 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by fog.xinside.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id QAA24542; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:42:13 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fog.xinside.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from landru.xinside.com(199.164.187.210) by fog.xinside.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024540; Wed Jan 22 16:42:08 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost.xinside.com [127.0.0.1]) by landru.xinside.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17386; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:36:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:35:57 -0700 (MST) From: Jon Trulson Reply-To: jon@xinside.com To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... In-Reply-To: <199701221759.SAA01019@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Hi there > > Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why > you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. How about FreeBSD-Egos. >I sincerely doubt > that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > serves any purpose. ;-) > > Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. I fully agree. It's getting to the point that anything with 'Terry' in it gets deleted before it's even read. No offense Terry. I'm just getting a little tired of the ego-war going on in a public list. Glad to know I'm not the only one. Take it to email pleeeease. > > Wilko > _ ____________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands > |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Jon Trulson work: mailto:jon@xinside.com, home: mailto:jon@radscan.com Xi Graphics, http://www.xinside.com ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962 PGP keys at finger:trulson@rainbow.rmii.com or http://home.rmi.net/~jon #include We are Grey. We stand between the Candle and the Star. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMuakYpv9MhmQHeeBAQFjcQf/RNJ/r5LWlJughM/NfpPzpbo98zbqtnAz Ibn9eMzMvCPoYMXgHm8bGg0B0RO1CxxO2BqxAPVtXKUxImbzHCHD5IyqdrG/jWkw 9mzPdpUhRfWn49u/mklkAYncWfCgchwc4UC7S8gTsi4DD3+G2SYvzy5V0f4vFZIS ipQ5rQW12329JOw9PmUskDmdusOgTJBTLIdrH8C94IDrHDq/6aNuG+Ps6urADo90 14+Xf0NRSB+UAWZA6Bb+hkBJ9YNTzVK66vwVGXJjmHcYMRgKuwBKk+Ip4bok38FS YO8HwYgQghq1uIKh96OMIhSDXT9qaNKpIQKrNUGlSjm32eide+IFkQ== =zdp4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:43:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06443 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06434 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:43:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA19723; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:40:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701222340.PAA19723@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: jdp@polstra.com, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:40:36 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:12:58 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > That's actually supposed to be a feature: it is not permitted to have > more than one ABI. Unfortunately, it's not really practical. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:44:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06591 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06583 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA27480; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:41:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:41:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701222341.QAA27480@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701222319.QAA22372@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701220514.WAA23918@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199701222319.QAA22372@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I think you're working from a misperception. The core team doesn't > > > > spend its time sitting around rubbing its collective hands together > > > > and going "Mooohahahaha! POWER!" so it's not likely to consider this > > > > in terms of power loss so much as it is in terms of how much workload > > > > is generated. > > [ ... ] > > Nate writes: > > Umm, I think you are working from a misperception. The core team > > doesn't have anything to do with determining the 'workload' of FreeBSD. > > Jordan is talking in terms of workload generated. If you don't like > the assumptive framework, talk to Jorden. I'm just responding in the > framework that has been established. No, he stated that having people 'vote' on what features should be in FreeBSD is only going to affect the core member by generating more work for them if the voting is more than something to make the users feel better about 'controlling' FreeBSD. It has nothing to do with a 'framework' or any other social organism. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:48:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06935 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06926 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:48:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA16094; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:41:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:41:43 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199701222341.PAA16094@kithrup.com> To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199701221759.SAA01019.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@yedi.iaf.nl> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199701221759.SAA01019.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@yedi.iaf.nl> you write: >Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why >you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt >that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion >serves any purpose. ;-) Because Terry pops up on nearly every technical thread, and has been doing so for, what, three years now? Four years? Ever since 386BSD days, anyway. And his messages have a tendency to be *long*, and to say how everyone is doing things wrong -- but, despite that, there have been few messages with *code* in them. Various people get very, very tired of this after a while. Frankly, I like Terry. I enjoy reading his diatribes, because they usually have something useful in them. (The recent messages being an exception -- sorry, Terry.) And I often ask his advice or opinion about some code I'm working on. But I do understand how people get frustrated, and this frustration works its way out as a vent periodically. This is only the most recent one, although it's probably the longest. I also understand Terry's frustration at being asked for piecemeal patches when he's been working on the whole thing. I hadn't thought about putting up an entire TerryOS system to look at it, though. I hope that happens. On the freebsd lists, sending out a long message with code is more likely to get attention than sending out a long message with discussions. And before Terry (or sympathizers ;)) get too upset: after all this time, after all the frustration and gnashing of teeth, people are still reading his messages. I assume that's because they do think he has something worth listening to. At least part of the time ;). Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:51:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07164 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA04715 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701222351.PAA04715@austin.polstra.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:30 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is probably a routing 101 question. But I've never had to do much with routing, so I could use some advice. A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: ethernet A (100BaseT) ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- | | | | | | host host host host host host | | | | | | ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- ethernet B (100BaseT) The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts could still talk to each other. Or, one of the ethernet cards on a host could go down, and it could still talk to all the other hosts. In either case, it has to happen automatically, without manual intervention. Load balancing isn't a goal, just fault-tolerance. At first I was hoping that routed could do this for me, without the applications even being aware of it. But now I'm not so sure. Each ethernet will have to have its own IP network number (right?), and so each host will have to have 2 IP addresses. A given packet will be addressed to only a single IP address, and that implies it's headed for a particular ethernet. If that ethernet is down, all addresses on it are down, and the packet won't be delivered no matter what routed does. Is this analysis correct? Is there a simple way to get what I want? How about a non-simple way? -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 15:57:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07684 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mixer.visi.com (root@mixer.visi.com [204.73.178.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07665 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from undquirt.visi.com (undquirt.visi.com [206.11.194.26]) by mixer.visi.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id RAA03264; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:56:44 -0600 (CST) From: "Brent J. Nordquist" Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:56:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bjn@localhost) by undquirt.visi.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) id RAA00270; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:55:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701222355.RAA00270@undquirt.visi.com> Subject: News binaries run as root, but not as news To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:55:47 -0600 (CST) Cc: bjn@visi.com Reply-to: bjn@visi.com (Brent J. Nordquist) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk PLEASE copy me on replies; I don't subscribe to -hackers. I tried to ask this in -questions and didn't get an answer. My setup: Fresh cvsup to RELENG_2_2 (the up-and-coming 2.2-RELEASE) of /usr/src and /usr/ports; fresh build and install of /usr/ports/news/cnews; edited files in /usr/local/news/lib but no other explicit configuration. I was able to add a local group and do a postnews/readnews and see the article show up. BUT it only works if I run newsrun as root. If I run newsrun as news, it creates a lock file and then hangs. It doesn't respond to normal kill (I had to kill -9). (I CAN do addgroup and delgroup as news.) I checked /usr/local/news; the entire hierarchy is owned by either bin or news; all files and directories are writable by the owner. Again, I didn't do anything explicit other than make install in /usr/ports/news/cnews, and editing the config files. The work/README has lines that it says should go in news's crontab, but I had to put them in root's to make it work. Is this normal? Any ideas what might be wrong? Thanks! -- Brent J. Nordquist bjn@visi.com +1 612 827-2747 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:03:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08569 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08552 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA09234; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:03:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: Dan Nelson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Erroneous Ierrs from vx0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Jan 22), Doug White said: > > Hello! > > > > I just purchased a 3com Etherlink XL PCI ethenet card and it's working > > great on 2.2-BETA, except for one thing: > > > > gdi,ttyp1,~,12>netstat -i > > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts OerrsColl > > vx0 1500 00.a0.24.ba.13.f8 76188 44915 23649 00 > > vx0 1500 128.223.170/2 gdi 76188 44915 23649 00 > > > I had similar problems just last week trying to NFS mount an SCO disk > onto a FreeBSD machine, both P6/200's. The SCO box had a PCI Intel > EtherExpress Pro/100, the BSD box had a PCI 3c905 Fast Etherlink > XL/100. I would only get the first 2 frags from the 8k NFS > transactions. NFS's retries failed, since it would resend the whole 8k > packet over (and, of course, only the first 2 frags would make it to > the BSD box). A "netstat -i" on the BSD end gave me lots of ierrs, but > I saw no console messages. > > Seems the vx0 driver doesn't print error messages unless you go into > debugging mode. Do an "ifconfig vx0 debug" to enable them, and watch > all the "RX overrun"/"packet overrun"/"fifo underrun" messages spew > out. I tried that and guess what: Jan 22 15:57:09 gdi /kernel: vx0: packet overrun Jan 22 15:57:40 gdi last message repeated 474 times Jan 22 15:58:02 gdi last message repeated 274 times So much for getting a card discounted :( I bought this through my office pretty cheap. > I swapped the 3com card with an Intel EE Pro/100B (fxp driver) and my > problems disappeared. I suspect one of the DEC chipset cards would do > fine also. It's finding one that isn't the silly new chipset now....Noticed that the place I'm buying a new MB from has a Kingston 21140 card, I'll try that one. > I've noticed that when I run 3Com's DOS config program that the card > reports 5K of receive buffers and 3K of send buffers. Is this really > all there is on the card? If so, I can understand the NFS problem, but > I can't believe a 100mbit card woud have such small buffers. I'll have to poke that. I wonder how bad it is on the Win95 boxes that these normally go into. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:22:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10861 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA10849 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22488; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:04:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230004.RAA22488@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: proff@suburbia.net Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:04:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970122141820.16633.qmail@suburbia.net> from "proff@suburbia.net" at Jan 23, 97 01:18:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > > A weighted democracy would be one open-ended growth solution, as > > > > > long as parametric changes could be made within the system. I have > > > > > suggested this before. A trivial napkin drawing version: > > > > > > I have doubts about such a system. How are the weights chosen? By core team fiat. It is they who will be giving up power, it is they who have the power to enforce initial disbursement. After that, it *should* be metastable. If it isn't, it can be reigned in. > - Should all weights be votable - dynamically adjusted according > to votes * current weights? This one: yes. > - Which is more stable? w1+w2+w3+w4=1 or w1*w2*w3*w4*w5=1? +, if we are talking probabilities applied to strange attractors. > - How a new weights created? Constitutionally, there must be a method for doing this within the system. Mostly, the weight values are the time rate accumulation vs. the spend rate on voting issues. If you are actively positive, you affect change; the stronger you feel about something, the more likely you are to code it (which every direction the strength of your feeling goes. The catch is that positive votes are inherently more valuable than negative votes, since to obstruct progress requires a number of votes equal to the outstanding proposals, but to move forward a proposal only requires a number of votes equal to the proposal. Blind obstructionism (and blind advocacy) are uneconomical. That's the point of having more than one vote to potentially spend on an issue, with potentially more issues than you can vote on all of them. You will have to pick you battles carefully if you want to avoid being lost in the noise. > - How does one prevent factional deal making? It won't, really, if there are places for deals to be made, and there are accurate vote tallys published (promoting last minute bid frenzies, auction-like behaviour). > - Should weights decline over time in the same manner as > an infinitely trainable adaptive neural network? There is a limit on the amount of weight you can throw around in a given time because of the high water mark on the number of tokens it's possible to build up on account. Again, you have to pick your battles or you will be lost in the noise. > What about retrospectivity? On the one hand you entrench a > pre-democratic feudal power structure and end up like Mandela's > South Africa; a constitutionally reformed non-racially discriminatory > capitalist society in which the blacks have all the votes, but > the whites have all the capital. On the other (FreeBSD) hand the > whites did all the work. In the abstract, if you are willing to do the work, you are more likely to throw three votes than one for a given topic. If you are just being obstructioninst, you will likely throw only one vote so that you can keep being obstructionist later. For reciprocity, it's possible to charge off percentages in the win/lose case to bias the power concentration: if your side wins, it costs you one less token then you voted, etc.. Again, initial bylaws are established through constitution provision: "we have the power that is being shared, therefore, these are the weights". > Certainly a very interesting social engineering experiment; there > is room here for long excursions into probability theory, game > theory, cryptographic voting protocols (extending to protocols > not traditionally seen as voting protocols such as Rabin's m/n > secret sharing scheme), all excellent paper fodder. Heh. I was thinking more in terms of its value as a cascade trigger to increasingly complex social organisms in the Internet implementation space. Representational democracies (republics, really) came about because of rate limits on communication. The US could not elect a president by popular vote because there were no methods of verification, and communication rates were limited by travel time. Therefore, the US has an Electoral College. But a side effect of this structure is a bias for bipartite seperation of interests, instead of seperation into as many interest groups as it takes to do the job of mapping the interest space. This bias is not removed because the bipartite interests have (and must continue to have) the power concentration. This leads to continued "wasted vote syndrome", where people vote for the lesser of two evils instead of voting their conscience... an effect of mass psychology. Similar pressures prevent the polling times from being changed to opening at 8am EST and closing at 8am EST to prevent early returns from earlier time zones influencing the outcome of elections before people in later time zones have even voted. For example, Ross Perot got almost 20% of the vote in the 1992 election, but 0% of the electors. He would still have lost, given the actual values. There is actually a case in US history where the winner of the electoral vote lost the popular vote... the president was not chosen by the people, but by the electors. > It would definitely attract a lot of welcome attention to FreeBSD. It would be worth one or more articles in WIRED, actually, as well as more scholarly sociology journals. Maybe even "Wall Street Journal" would run "Multinational Democratic State Declares Independence in Cyberspace" or a similar silly headline. > When viewed strictly as an experiment this idea has a lot > of merit. If it actually pans out, then well and good, if not, > then it could be used as some kind of Sawick poll. Yep. The reason I went weighted, by the way, was the volunteer nature of the project. In theory, number of vote tokens spent should be proportional to willingness to actually volunteer. As you point out, there could be feedback here as well: for instance, if a proposal passes, if it is completed, the tokens spent on the vote could be refunded to those who voted for it. If it dies on the vine, the tokens could be refunded to those who voted against it. Being right would give you more license to participate, and being wrong would not, etc.. Again, a matter for the initial bylaws. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:25:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA11110 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11061 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22520; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:09:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230009.RAA22520@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:09:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701221759.SAA01019@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jan 22, 97 06:59:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why > you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > serves any purpose. ;-) > > Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. The "incrowd" is an artificial distinction. "Sovereign power comes from a mandate from the people, not because some watery tart lobbs a scimitar at you". -- Dennis, who's not an old lady or an old man... PS: The people who should be participating in the discussion would probably not subscribe to the suggested list. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:31:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA11848 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:31:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11837 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:31:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22558; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:16:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230016.RAA22558@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry To: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:16:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701222310.JAA11950@ajax.wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Jan 23, 97 09:10:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What's wrong with arranged marriages? > > How about (usually) the female having to be totally subservient to the male? That's a side effect of the society in which arranged marriages have typically arisin, historically. It's not an attribute of arranged marriages themselves. In general, neither person in an arranged marriage has a choice (or the person who didn't have the choice would have the choice, by secondary effect, to make themselves chronically undesirable... in the limit if one of them has a choice, both have a choice). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:39:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12659 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [38.246.139.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12646 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from 38.246.139.33 (Kim.watermarkgroup.com) by watermarkgroup.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18850; Wed, 22 Jan 97 19:37:51 EST Message-Id: <32E6B2C2.124B@watermarkgroup.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:37:29 -0500 From: Luoqi Chen Organization: The Watermark Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Evans Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: My sportster internal modem doesn't work after switched to 2.2-BETA References: <199701211839.FAA14689@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote: > > >After some poking around, I found that the if I sent multiple bytes > >to the modem, some would get lost. So I went to sio.c and changed > >com->tx_fifo_size to 1 from 16, and everything works fine now. > >But I am still wondering if this is a problem with the modem, or with > >the software. It seems that NT is doing the same, sending no more than > >one > >byte at a time. This is not a satisfactory solution, the output FIFO > >is underutilized and CPU is servicing 16 times more interrupts. > > Which version did it work in? The sio driver streams output better sio.c: $Id: sio.c,v 1.147.2.5 1996/12/23 19:59:08 bde Exp $ > than it used to. There used to be a small amount of dead time every > 256(?) characters. Perhaps the internal modem can't quite keep up > and its flow control doesn't work or you're not using flow control. > Reducing com->tx_fifo_size gives flow control a better chance of working. > > Try other values < 16 for com->tx_fifo_size. I tried other values, only 1 worked. How does the flow control inside an internal modem work? Do you need to check MSR_CTS each time you push a byte into the fifo? Or you could check once and fill up the fifo if CTS is set? > > Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:40:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12866 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12810 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22579; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:22:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230022.RAA22579@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ELF ABI tagging To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:22:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jdp@polstra.com, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701222340.PAA19723@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Jan 22, 97 03:40:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > That's actually supposed to be a feature: it is not permitted to have > > more than one ABI. > > Unfortunately, it's not really practical. For the people who define the ABI in the first place, or for the follow-on people (like us) who want to tweak it? Seriously, there's no real reson an ABI could not be standardized other than everyone wants to be the one to define the thing and thinks everyone else should follow the trail that they beat. Frankly, I have little sympathy for the forces which have caused me to be unable to run an x86 UNIX binary on any UNIX or UNIX clone system, regardless of vendor. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:40:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12923 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12894 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22590; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:23:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230023.RAA22590@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:23:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@mt.sri.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701222341.QAA27480@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 22, 97 04:41:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, he stated that having people 'vote' on what features should be in > FreeBSD is only going to affect the core member by generating more work > for them if the voting is more than something to make the users feel > better about 'controlling' FreeBSD. > > It has nothing to do with a 'framework' or any other social organism. You apparently agree with Jordan. Question: How will it generate work? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:41:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13139 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA20213; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:38:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701230038.QAA20213@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: jdp@polstra.com, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ELF ABI tagging Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:38:30 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:22:41 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > For the people who define the ABI in the first place, or for the > follow-on people (like us) who want to tweak it? > > Seriously, there's no real reson an ABI could not be standardized > other than everyone wants to be the one to define the thing and > thinks everyone else should follow the trail that they beat. Well... Setting the ABI in stone isn't terribly _interesting_. Besides, I don't _like_ SVR4. :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 16:55:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15013 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15008 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA22687; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:38:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701230038.RAA22687@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ELF ABI tagging To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:38:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jdp@polstra.com, dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701230038.QAA20213@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Jan 22, 97 04:38:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > For the people who define the ABI in the first place, or for the > > follow-on people (like us) who want to tweak it? > > > > Seriously, there's no real reson an ABI could not be standardized > > other than everyone wants to be the one to define the thing and > > thinks everyone else should follow the trail that they beat. > > Well... Setting the ABI in stone isn't terribly _interesting_. > Besides, I don't _like_ SVR4. :-) Neither do I. On the other hand, having commercial user applications for a UNIX desktop would be a general win for everyone, not just the SVR4 weenies trying to define the standard ABI in such a way as to cause the most catch-up work for their non-SVR4-licensed competition. I would be willing to trade strict ABI control for an extention interface to an ABI over which I have no direct control, and a lot of nice applications being available for purchase at the local Egghead Software or Software Etc., or Softsel, or... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 17:31:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17923 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from research.gate.nec.co.jp (research.gate.nec.co.jp [202.32.8.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17918 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by research.gate.nec.co.jp (8.8.4+2.7Wbeta4/950912) with ESMTP id KAA05699; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:31:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp by sbl-gw.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.3W6) with ESMTP id KAA23865; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:30:58 +0900 (JST) Received: by sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp (8.7.5+2.6Wbeta6/3.3W6) with UUCP id KAA07619; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:30:45 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:30:45 +0900 (JST) From: Naoki Hamada Message-Id: <199701230130.KAA07619@sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp> References: To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu CC: dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu, dnelson@emsphone.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Doug White's message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:03:17 -0800 (PST)" Subject: Re: Erroneous Ierrs from vx0 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doug White wrote: >On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dan Nelson wrote: >>In the last episode (Jan 22), Doug White said: >>> I just purchased a 3com Etherlink XL PCI ethenet card and it's working >>> great on 2.2-BETA, except for one thing: Note that current support for 3COM Etherlink XL PCI cards are only experimental because 3COM do not provide their technical reference. Though they are capable of transfer data in full bus-mastering mode, the vx0 driver does PIO for now. So their performance is poor despite their potentially high capability. - nao From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 18:39:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21055 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21048 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:39:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28344; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:32:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:32:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701230232.TAA28344@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-Reply-To: <199701230023.RAA22590@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701222341.QAA27480@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199701230023.RAA22590@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Voting ] > > Question: How will it generate work? What is the purpose of the voting mechanism if not to change the current focus of developers? If your answer is that somehow voting will somehow increase the number of developers, then you are completely ignoring history. Voting simply puts decisions in the hands of the voters, but it does *nothing* with regard to getting more people doing the work, rather the opposite is true. So, if voting is to have any effect it either will pull the current developers off their existing 'projects' which they do for fun, or cause them to add more projects, which in either cause will cause them to either jump ship, ignore the vote (thus making the vote useless), or get burned out quicker. There is absolutely *NO* reward for agreeing to implement what the users vote for. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 19:00:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22043 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:00:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22038 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA15277 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18919; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:18:22 GMT Message-Id: <199701230118.BAA18919@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte), FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:09:01 MST." <199701230009.RAA22520@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:18:21 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > "Sovereign power comes from a mandate from the people, > not because some watery tart lobbs a scimitar at you". > -- Dennis, who's not an old lady or an old man... > You must have rewound about 10 times to get that quote ! -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 19:02:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22143 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:02:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22135 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA20215; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:20:04 GMT Message-Id: <199701230120.BAA20215@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Terry In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:16:03 MST." <199701230016.RAA22558@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:20:03 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > What's wrong with arranged marriages? > > > > How about (usually) the female having to be totally subservient to the male? > > That's a side effect of the society in which arranged marriages have > typically arisin, historically. [.....] Wow, now *that's* what I call a tangent ! -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 19:14:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22611 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22594 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA19130; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:08:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701230308.TAA19130@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:32:28 MST." <199701230232.TAA28344@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:08:55 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >What is the purpose of the voting mechanism if not to change the current >focus of developers? Can we please move this thread to freebsd-chat? It doesn't belong in this mailing list and many people are getting tired of reading it. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 19:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22949 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sirloin.STEAK.org (vertex@sirloin.STEAK.org [208.128.83.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22943 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:21:25 -0800 (PST) From: vertex@sirloin.STEAK.org Received: from localhost (vertex@localhost) by sirloin.STEAK.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA20998 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:24:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:24:53 -0500 (EST) To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 19:53:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA24315 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:53:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhiannon.clari.net.au (dns1.clari.net.au [203.27.85.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24310 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.clari.net.au (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07575; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:59:25 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:59:25 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins Message-Id: <199701230359.OAA07575@rhiannon.clari.net.au> To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, vertex@sirloin.STEAK.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >help with what? choosing a domain name? (grin) Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 20:43:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA26618 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26605 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id FAA15393 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:42:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id FAA09408 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:31:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.8.4/8.7.3) id AAA03759; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:30:11 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bisdn References: <8720bd8fri.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 23 Jan 1997 00:30:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: garyj@frt.dec.com's message of Wed, 22 Jan 97 13:45:08 +0100 Message-ID: <87680pxp8d.fsf@localhost.xs4all.nl> Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Wed, 22 Jan 97 13:45:08 +0100, garyj@frt.dec.com said: >> For the PPP stuff, see http://www.arg1.demon.co.uk/ for a compilation >> of the work by Stefan Grefen and Gary Jennejohn, which I have >> organized to apply cleanly to FreeBSD-2.2. g> and greatly appreciated, too ! Several people will be working on getting g> this integrated into -current (aka 3.0). Damn! I sold my Teles card too soon and bought an (expensive) external TA instead :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 20:50:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27016 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA27006 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA15498; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:50:01 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:50 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00205 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:27:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id XAA07877 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:04:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:04:09 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701230404.XAA07877@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers Subject: 2.1.6.1 freeing free inode panic... (nightly panics) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've received a couple of interesting replies this go-'round on the panic. If you're interested in previous discussions; look through the mail archive for "nightly panics." Several people have suggested that fsck could be the culprit. In that, fsck is not catching some terrible file system inconsistency. such that when a file system gets into this state, it's stuck there. [A newfs and restore, of course, fixes.] I would submit that the bug is that the file system gets into that state to begin with.... granted; fsck (possibly) could do something with it - but there should be no reason (barring hardware faults, stray gamma rays, etc...) for the file system to be corrupted this way - much less for it to panic the machine. So, I'm willing to believe this is a situation unexamined by fsck because it's not supposed to happen. I'm also willing to believe that "it's not supposed to happen" is a contributing cause in the panic (sorta an obvious statement; that's what panic() means :-) ) Jaye Mathisen writes: > I have several servers that once I get this error one time, I can count on > getting it again, unless I newfs, and restore the FS. I would say that my experience echoes his. It seems that building a new file system eliminates the problem - for a short time; and once it's returned, it's there for good. Is it possible there's a boundary condition in "isclr" - such that bits around, say a word boundary; are not checked [this would presumably be a compiler bug, as isclr() is a pretty straightforward macro - see /usr/include/sys/param.h.] I'm not sure it's worth examining at 2.1.6.1; as I believe 2.2 is quite different in this area. But, if anyone has any suggestions, please don't hesitate to come forward with possibilities to examine [I've read through ffs_alloc.c; seems reasonable to me.] A quick/reliable reproduction of the problem would go a long way toward solving it.... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 20:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27022 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA27007 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA15506; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:50:02 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:50 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00209; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:27:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id XAA07890; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:06:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:06:01 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701230406.XAA07890@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!coombs.anu.edu.au!avalon, ponds!freefall.cdrom.com!freebsd-hackers, ponds!lakes.water.net!rivers Subject: Re: 2.1.6.1 panic: ifree: freeing free inode Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Have you performed interactive fsck's ? > > Darren > Yes - nothing there.... too bad; even if it did cause a panic; it'd be nice to have some debris left lying around to help diagnose the root cause. - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 21:19:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27921 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27914 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15374; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:19:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:19:00 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: Naoki Hamada cc: dnelson@emsphone.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Erroneous Ierrs from vx0 In-Reply-To: <199701230130.KAA07619@sirius.sbl.cl.nec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Naoki Hamada wrote: > Doug White wrote: > >On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dan Nelson wrote: > >>In the last episode (Jan 22), Doug White said: > >>> I just purchased a 3com Etherlink XL PCI ethenet card and it's working > >>> great on 2.2-BETA, except for one thing: > > Note that current support for 3COM Etherlink XL PCI cards are only > experimental because 3COM do not provide their technical > reference. Though they are capable of transfer data in full bus-mastering > mode, the vx0 driver does PIO for now. So their performance is poor > despite their potentially high capability. Is the de driver any better? (this is next on my list -- a Kingston 21140) Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 22:16:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00399 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00392 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id WAA15620; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:16:20 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Path: not-for-mail From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers Subject: Re: 2.2's gcc/g++/ld and -frepo Date: 22 Jan 1997 22:16:20 -0800 Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Lines: 15 Distribution: local Message-ID: <5c6vnk$f81@austin.polstra.com> References: <199701222310.PAA08703@gloworm.Stanford.EDU> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199701222310.PAA08703@gloworm.Stanford.EDU>, Dan Yergeau wrote: > > Will 2.2-RELEASE contain a working g++ with -frepo (template > repositories)? I think it's safe to say that 2.2 will not have this. It's just too late to stick a compiler change into 2.2. I will take a look at it for -current, though. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 22:59:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA02428 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from fredriks-1.pr.mcs.net (fredriks-1.pr.mcs.net [205.164.50.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02423 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fredriks-1.pr.mcs.net (fredriks-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.50.242]) by fredriks-1.pr.mcs.net (8.8.4/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA14328 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:59:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <32E70C51.41C67EA6@mcs.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:59:29 -0600 From: Lars Fredriksen Reply-To: fredriks@mcs.com Organization: Flaaklypa Hackers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Modifications to pppd to make it log connecton times Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here are context diffs to pppd that makes pppd log the total time in minutes that it has been connected(similar to what ppp does). I don't know if I have caught every way pppd can exit(it obviously doesn't do this if it dumps core or the machine panics) to make sure the data is printed out, but it does work for the normal cases for sure. This helps one track online time and you can write scripts to monitor this so that you don't use over your limit(if your account have such limits). Please comment on them, or commit them (if they are deemed appropriate) or let me know and I can commit them as well. Sincerely, Lars --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="auth.c.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="auth.c.diff" Index: auth.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/pppd/auth.c,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -c -r1.10 auth.c *** auth.c 1997/01/14 07:15:59 1.10 --- auth.c 1997/01/17 05:40:32 *************** *** 131,142 **** link_terminated(unit) int unit; { if (phase == PHASE_DEAD) return; if (logged_in) ppplogout(); phase = PHASE_DEAD; ! syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Connection terminated."); } /* --- 131,148 ---- link_terminated(unit) int unit; { + extern time_t etime, stime; + extern int minutes; + if (phase == PHASE_DEAD) return; if (logged_in) ppplogout(); phase = PHASE_DEAD; ! etime = time((time_t *) NULL); ! minutes = (etime-stime)/60; ! syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Connection terminated, connected for %d minutes\n", ! minutes > 1 ? minutes : 1); } /* --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="main.c.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="main.c.diff" Index: main.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/pppd/main.c,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -c -r1.8 main.c *** main.c 1997/01/14 07:16:16 1.8 --- main.c 1997/01/17 05:40:37 *************** *** 71,76 **** --- 71,78 ---- static pid_t pid; /* Our pid */ static pid_t pgrpid; /* Process Group ID */ static uid_t uid; /* Our real user-id */ + time_t etime,stime; /* End and Start time */ + int minutes; /* connection duration */ int fd = -1; /* Device file descriptor */ *************** *** 221,226 **** --- 223,229 ---- } pid = getpid(); p = getlogin(); + stime = time((time_t *) NULL); if (p == NULL) { pw = getpwuid(uid); if (pw != NULL && pw->pw_name != NULL) *************** *** 468,474 **** return; if (len == 0) { ! syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Modem hangup"); hungup = 1; lcp_lowerdown(0); /* serial link is no longer available */ phase = PHASE_DEAD; --- 471,479 ---- return; if (len == 0) { ! etime = time((time_t *) NULL); ! minutes = (etime-stime)/60; ! syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Modem hangup, connected for %d minutes", (minutes >1) ? minutes : 1); hungup = 1; lcp_lowerdown(0); /* serial link is no longer available */ phase = PHASE_DEAD; --------------446B9B3D2781E494167EB0E7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 23:15:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03083 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from metaplex-ss10.cisco.com (metaplex-ss10.cisco.com [171.69.176.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA03077 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by metaplex-ss10.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) id SAA16460; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:14:14 +1100 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:14:14 +1100 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199701230714.SAA16460@metaplex-ss10.cisco.com> To: jdp@polstra.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra): > This is probably a routing 101 question. But I've never had to do much > with routing, so I could use some advice. > > A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > | | | | | | > host host host host host host > | | | | | | > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > ethernet B (100BaseT) > > The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts could > still talk to each other. Or, one of the ethernet cards on a host could > go down, and it could still talk to all the other hosts. In either > case, it has to happen automatically, without manual intervention. Load > balancing isn't a goal, just fault-tolerance. I used to work in the real time & high availability field, and this is a typical architecture that we designed and installed. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to do this without involving the applications in some way, or without throwing a fair amount of hardware at the problem. > At first I was hoping that routed could do this for me, without > the applications even being aware of it. But now I'm not so sure. > Each ethernet will have to have its own IP network number (right?), > and so each host will have to have 2 IP addresses. A given packet > will be addressed to only a single IP address, and that implies > it's headed for a particular ethernet. If that ethernet is down, > all addresses on it are down, and the packet won't be delivered > no matter what routed does. > > Is this analysis correct? Is there a simple way to get what I want? > How about a non-simple way? You analysis is correct; the BSD stack and most IP based applications rely on IP endpoints for routing i.e a TCP connection requires a remote & local IP address & port number. I guess you can play games with routing and shutting interfaces down (like detecting when an interface fails, and then setting up a bunch of IP host router and marking the failed interface down), but my experience is that it is difficult to make this work in all circumstances. There is no simple way, but consider this: using 100Bt, you are going to be using 100BT hubs or switches. A lot of the switches and hubs are providing high availability these days, such as dual power supplys etc. so the kind of failure you get is more related to a single port as opposed to the entire net failing. In this case, all the other host interfaces are going to be still operational, and their interfaces are going to be sending/receiving to other hosts on the net with the failed interface, so how do you tell when all the hosts should start using the backup net?? So a host may see a failed ethernet, but perhaps only that host's port is down. There are lots of combinations of failure scenarios, and it is real hard to catch all these with a simplistic, application invisible method. Another approach is to use a router (or routers), in various configurations with switches or hubs. Depending on how much money you want to spend, you can range from availabilities of 98% to 99.99%. In the architecture we designed in our high availability product, the software was cognizant of multiple networks and was able to handle multiple paths to hosts. Most of the standard Unix net applications don't handle network problems of this nature well :-) the 100BT hub probably has a much higher MTBF and much lower MTTR than any of the hosts, anyway... why not just keep a spare hub lying around. Adding lots of extra hardware and cabling and extra net interfaces may just reduce the availability of the system. > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth Cheers, Andrew McRae (amcrae@cisco.com) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 23:31:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03759 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03754 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA13610; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:33:05 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:33:04 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-inside CDE segfaulting all over the place In-Reply-To: <2816.853874120@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Well, using null and union mounts we could hold the packages anywhere we > > wanted... > > > > And they would not even notice. > > Yes they would - their systems would be crashing constantly due to the > fact that neither null or union mounts currently work worth a > damn. :-) Well... 1) Union mounts don't work - at least for me it worked like an null mount. But it kind of worked. There were no panicks due to access of the directories union-mounted. Trying to unmount it caused a panick, though 2) Null mounts "almost" work - I nullmounted my src subdirectory on /usr/src and tried make world on it. The result - it got going fairly well, but at some moment paniced and ate my /sbin. > > Seriously, there are a LOT of cool things we could do with a working > unionfs (like make /usr/obj go away and/or change significantly) but Have a real read-only root partition with /etc null-mounted from somewhere else (/var/etc ?) from rc? > after more than 2 years, I'm hardly going to hold my breath for it. > Too many things need to happen first, like the Lite2 merge, and we > haven't got enough people working on that right now to make quick > progress. Got to try to join in... (well - if anyone still takes me serious after that whats written up there :-) Sander Doing everything fs we may someday be... > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 22 23:59:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05080 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05064 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA21307; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:14:26 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199701230714.IAA21307@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets To: amcrae@cisco.com (Andrew McRae) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:14:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701230714.SAA16460@metaplex-ss10.cisco.com> from "Andrew McRae" at Jan 23, 97 06:13:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > | | | | | | > > host host host host host host > > | | | | | | > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > ethernet B (100BaseT) as already mentioned, using 100baseT you hare more likely to have single wire failures rather than network failures; that might make the problem different. A problem with BSD networking is that once a connection is opened, the socket is bound to a specific interface and so it does not help to have multiple paths starting from the same host. I forget the details, but have been told that there is a very minor modification (a few lines) that fixes this problem. Another trick (inefficient) you might use is to make all your traffic through tun0 and then write your own forwarder for outgoing traffic. Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 00:20:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06736 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from metaplex-ss10.cisco.com (metaplex-ss10.cisco.com [171.69.176.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06727 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by metaplex-ss10.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) id TAA16703; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:19:35 +1100 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:19:35 +1100 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199701230819.TAA16703@metaplex-ss10.cisco.com> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jdp@polstra.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >A problem with BSD networking is that once a connection is opened, the >socket is bound to a specific interface and so it does not help to >have multiple paths starting from the same host. I forget the details, >but have been told that there is a very minor modification (a few >lines) that fixes this problem. > >Another trick (inefficient) you might use is to make all your >traffic through tun0 and then write your own forwarder for outgoing >traffic. Yes, an interesting idea, and one that I actually used in an embedded system that contained the BSD stack. The problem is pushed off into the forwarder, and it has to deal with all the routing issues. This can work, but I would have thought that any applications requiring 100BT bandwidth would not want the data to traverse across kernel/user space a couple of times :-) Presumably tun0 has its net interface on the application side, so what does it do with the pkts it reads? Look at the IP address inside the packet and then send it down a raw socket to one of a couple of interfaces? How does it receive the packets destined for the applications? Hmm, I guess it can be done, but I doubt whether it would be real easy (in my embedded environment, the forwarder could access the net devices directly). > Luigi >-----------------------------+-------------------------------------- >Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione >email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa >tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) >fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ >_____________________________|______________________________________ Cheers, Andrew McRae From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 00:34:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07352 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07346 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id IAA24622; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:32:29 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:29:11 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:29:11 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199701221759.SAA01019@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Wilko Bulte From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 5:59 pm -0000 22/1/97, Wilko Bulte wrote: >Hi there > >Being just an innocent (...) bystander... You watched this bloodbath and you did nothing, now you claim you're innocent?! :-) :-) >... I cannot help wondering why >you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt >that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion >serves any purpose. ;-) In all seriousness, I agree. I can see a point in the discussion, but surely -hackers isn't the place for it. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 00:35:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07411 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from me.bla.com (ctdnet.acns.nwu.edu [129.105.178.200]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA15706 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:35:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from me.bla.com (localhost.bla.com [127.0.0.1]) by me.bla.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA28531; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:33:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701230833.CAA28531@me.bla.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: John Polstra cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:51:30 -0800. <199701222351.PAA04715@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:33:27 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >This is probably a routing 101 question. But I've never had to do much >with routing, so I could use some advice. > >A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > | | | | | | > host host host host host host > | | | | | | > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > ethernet B (100BaseT) > >The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts could >still talk to each other. Or, one of the ethernet cards on a host could >go down, and it could still talk to all the other hosts. In either >case, it has to happen automatically, without manual intervention. Load >balancing isn't a goal, just fault-tolerance. > >At first I was hoping that routed could do this for me, without >the applications even being aware of it. But now I'm not so sure. >Each ethernet will have to have its own IP network number (right?), >and so each host will have to have 2 IP addresses. A given packet >will be addressed to only a single IP address, and that implies >it's headed for a particular ethernet. If that ethernet is down, >all addresses on it are down, and the packet won't be delivered >no matter what routed does. > >Is this analysis correct? Is there a simple way to get what I want? >How about a non-simple way? I have been thinking about this for a bit, but all I could come up with is a really sick solution. I'm sure its not worth much, and may not even work, but I'll share it anyway. :) To start with, the different interfaces will be on different networks as you describe. But then you delete the 2 network routes, and add 2 default routes to each interface on the router(s). The router would have to have to know about the network topology, and the machines themselves would have to be configured to forward packets. Then everything would (hopefully) be taken care of via ICMP redirects... Anyway, not a very efficient or scalable solution. Or one I would try.. ;) Chris >-- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 00:53:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA08280 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA08272 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from truk.brandinnovators.com (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 3637 on Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:49:03 +0100; id JAA03637 efrom: hans@truk.brandinnovators.com; eto: hackers@freebsd.org Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.7.5/BI96070101) for id JAA04917; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:47:04 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701230847.JAA04917@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: Groff and DVI To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:47:04 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, When I use `groff -Tdvi -man manualpage' I get complaints that the CB, CO and CR fonts cannot be found. Simple minded linking removes the warnings, but is this the "right" way of doing this? Also, when using groff with -Tdvi list items do not get interpreted properly: .It Dv BDMIOENB Fa void -> Dv BDMIOENB Fa void while -Tps gives the expected output: -> BDMIOENB void (<== imagine proper formatting ;-) ) Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Hans BTW. anyone know how to make groff use A4 sized paper? -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 01:34:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA10742 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10734 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id UAA21143; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:04:10 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701230934.UAA21143@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-Reply-To: <199701230833.CAA28531@me.bla.com> from Chris Csanady at "Jan 23, 97 02:33:27 am" To: ccsanady@me.bla.com (Chris Csanady) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:04:09 +1030 (CST) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Csanady stands accused of saying: > > > >A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > | | | | | | > > host host host host host host > > | | | | | | > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > ethernet B (100BaseT) > > > >The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts could > >still talk to each other. Or, one of the ethernet cards on a host could > >go down, and it could still talk to all the other hosts. In either > >case, it has to happen automatically, without manual intervention. Load > >balancing isn't a goal, just fault-tolerance. Speaking of sickness : - hack the kernel to support duplicate addresses on different interfaces (ie. emit packet on all interfaces with the desired source address) - hack the listening side at a low level (ether layer or so) to pick one interface to listen to a given host on. Devise a simple heuristic for deciding when to swap (maybe count incoming packets from each host & swap when the "off" host gets some number ahead). Either way, it's not something that's trivial to do, and has previously been observed, it's really concentrating on the wrong parts of the picture. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 02:15:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA12361 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12356 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA25639 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:08:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E737F0.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:05:36 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: LDAP object schema for NIS/UNIX/KERB ] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------794BDF32446B9B3D2781E494" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------794BDF32446B9B3D2781E494 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, any comments? --------------794BDF32446B9B3D2781E494 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from skylab.whistle.com (skylab.whistle.com [207.76.205.229]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA16912; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:51:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E6B63E.6B5D@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:52:14 -0800 From: Jim Li Reply-To: jim@whistle.com Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmann, julian CC: eng Subject: A suggested LDAP object schema for POSIX/UNIX entities Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.xedoc.com.au/~lukeh/ldap/schema.html interesting??? -j --------------794BDF32446B9B3D2781E494-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 02:17:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA12488 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12483 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA25411; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:50:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E733A4.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:47:16 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew McRae CC: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets References: <199701230714.SAA16460@metaplex-ss10.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew McRae wrote: > > jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra): > > This is probably a routing 101 question. But I've never had to do much > > with routing, so I could use some advice. > > > > A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > | | | | | | > > host host host host host host > > | | | | | | > > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > > ethernet B (100BaseT) > > > > The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts c Using the 'netgraph' 'streams-like' framework I've been writing for BSD, you could impliment a node that multiplexed between two ethernet interfaces and exported a single virtual interface. you'd have to hack a 'netgraph' interface onto the ethernet driver, but I write the interface specifically to make that easy to do. it would effectively be a carbuncle on the side of the driver that would divert incoming packets into the 'graph' of nodes that has been attached.. hmm maybe it could be done in if_ethersubr.c and would be independent of card type! .. that would be cool. we could loadshare between several nets with different adapters :) (and dynamically switch virtual nets over different physical transports. :) if you hadn't attached a node it would act as normal and use it's own interface. The only bit I'm not sure about would be arp, but I'm sure it can't be that hard.. I'm just chasing down some last silly bugs and hopefully will have documentation and a user-level control program by next week.. the "rfc1490" node works fine, as does "echo", "socket", "blackhole" and a proprietary card specific frame relay node. There is a ppp node under construction by our resident PPP guru.. sorry to get so carried away but when you've got a big new hammer, you keep looking out for nails! the (very) preliminary doc is at: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/Netgraph.txt it's evolved and got a bit simpler and more useable as I've been implimenting it.. code available soon. anxious types can ask for copies tomorrow but will need to UTSL as they can't RTFM yet :) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 02:41:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA13327 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from bridget.devlab.org (root@[194.185.12.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA13321 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (matra@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bridget.devlab.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00076; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:27:22 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:27:22 +0000 (GMT) From: matra X-Sender: matra@bridget.devlab.org To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ZIP ppa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I have a parallel port ZIP drive working perfectly under linux. How can i use the ZIP under freeBSD? Please , reply to me! This prob is the last thing between me and freeBSD! hoping.... cul8r_ ____ _____ _____ ____..______/|__________/|__________/|______ | || |(_ _)| _ || | ..______/|__________/|__________/|____ | || o | | | | [ ] || o | ..______/|__________/|__________/|__ |_>_>_||__|_| |_| |__|\_\|__|_| ..______/|__________/|__________/| e-mail :matra@diemme.it ,irc (efnet-euro) ,voice :+39-984-780347 (ITALY) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Three things to live for :Your girl sweetly sleeping in your arms ...... The last busted bug that lies dead in your gdb Pizza , ice-alcholic-beer and a good movie ... Three things to die for :Lamers that pretends to be superior .......... Segmentation Fault............................ Your gf saying "I dont know if i ever loved u" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 02:46:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA13584 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13579 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id VAA27085; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:34:39 +1100 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:34:39 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701231034.VAA27085@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, luoqi@watermarkgroup.com Subject: Re: My sportster internal modem doesn't work after switched to 2.2-BETA Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Which version did it work in? The sio driver streams output better >sio.c: > $Id: sio.c,v 1.147.2.5 1996/12/23 19:59:08 bde Exp $ 1.147.2.5 is the latest version in 2.2. This version is identical with the latest version in -current except for the version number. If it works there then the problem is already fixed :-). >> Try other values < 16 for com->tx_fifo_size. >I tried other values, only 1 worked. How does the flow control inside >an internal modem work? It should work normally. >Do you need to check MSR_CTS each time you push >a byte into the fifo? Or you could check once and fill up the fifo if >CTS is set? The driver checks before filling up the fifo. There is no point in checking while filling it, since it only takes about 20us to fill and the CTS state is unlikely to change in that time. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 03:08:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14301 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:08:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14296 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA97554; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:08:08 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:08:08 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: John Polstra cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-Reply-To: <199701222351.PAA04715@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > At first I was hoping that routed could do this for me, without No. RIP sucks and must die :) [...] > Is this analysis correct? Kinda of... who cares. > Is there a simple way to get what I want? Yes. See below. > How about a non-simple way? It is the same as a non-simple one :) Use Gated and OSPF. It will even do some kind of load-sharing then, you will get kinda of 20Mb between the hosts included into the structure. Please don't hesitate to ask me for help in setting this up. -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 03:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14404 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.uq.edu.au (zzshocki.slip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.221.173]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14397; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bloop.craftncomp.com (localhost.craftncomp.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailbox.uq.edu.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA00380; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:04:40 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199701231104.VAA00380@mailbox.uq.edu.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org cc: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:04:38 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fingering John Carmack at id (johnc@idsoftware.com) gives the following - > On since Jan 6 14:59:09 5 days 19 hours Idle Time on ttyp2 from idcarmack On since Jan 12 21:58:30 10 days Idle Time on ttyp3 from idcarmack Plan: Ok, off the soapbox and back to normal id stuff... ============================ Jan 12 We now have someone officially in charge of quake/quakeworld unix ports: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch. zoid@threewave.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Direct any correspondance about the linux ports of quake to him. If any other unix vendors would like to have quake ported to their environments, set up an equipment loan with him. This is a volenteer position, so don't give him a hard time. ============================ Jan 22 A preliminary release of glquake and the 3dfx driver has been put on our ftp site in the idstuff/unsup directory. one hour later... 3dfx gave me a new vxd for glquake that fixes crashing problems on some pentium pro systems. glquake1.zip now contains the current file. So Jordan, how 'bout it? Do you want to chase him up? The shareware version would be a great thing to be able to ship on the 2.2 CD..... Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 04:12:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA16468 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16446; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id WAA29120; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:40:54 +1100 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:40:54 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701231140.WAA29120@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: angio@aros.net, eivind@dimaga.com Subject: Re: FWIW Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, security@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Thu Jan 23 05:41:10 1997 >Received: from x.physics.usyd.edu.au (x.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.25]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA26842 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:36:19 +1100 >Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by x.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id FAA11762; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:35:40 +1100 (EST) >Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16465; > Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:48:15 -0800 (PST) >Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16363 > for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:47:28 -0800 (PST) >Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16314; > Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:47:07 -0800 (PST) >Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id SAA08172; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:08 +0100 (MET) >Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA17586; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:52 +0100 (MET) >Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122184152.00b7eec0@dimaga.com> >X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:41:54 +0100 >To: Dave Andersen >From: Eivind Eklund >Subject: Re: FWIW >Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, > security@FreeBSD.ORG >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Precedence: bulk >Status: RO > >At 09:33 AM 1/22/97 -0700, Dave Andersen wrote: >> >>> From: Eivind Eklund >>> >>> At 01:55 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Jaye Mathisen wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> >8.8.5 of sendmail is out, apparently fixing some nasty security bug in >>> >8.8.3 and 8.8.4. Since 8.8.4 is in the tree, we should upgrade ASAP. >>> >>> The security bug is reasonably minor; it is a question of not giving up >>> group rights in some cases. The problem has been present quite a while (if >>> it is the problem the description made it sound like), since 8.7.0 or >>> something. > >Well, this was what I was informed. If I'd read BugTraq before reading >freebsd-hackers, I would have known better. There is a MIME overflow bug - >which at least some lints (flexelint, for sure) would have caught. A patch >is included below. > >BTW: How do people feel about making FreeBSD (or at least the header files) >flexelint clean? I could do the actual work (starting in a few weeks, as >soon as I get my non-work machine home), but it would take a _LOT_ of >commits, involving mainly comment addition to suppress warnings. >(flexelint use control comments to suppress warnings). Real code changes >would only happen in those cases where bugs were uncovered. > >>> (Not that we shouldn't fix it, but I'm not too concerned about it. Since >>> you are concerned, perhaps you should upgrade the port? :) >> >> You should be. :) Sendmail 8.8.5 fixes a remotely exploitable buffer >>overflow that (you guessed it) can let an outsider have root access to >>your system. A local account is not required to take advantage of this >>hole. > >I don't have to - I'm running an older version with only the bugfixes from >newer versions, to avoid this kind of surprise. :) >(In addition my host is firewalled, recieving all mail by UUCP from another >secure host. Only DNS is available below 1024.) > >> (If you haven't upgraded to 8.8.5 yet, you should. Don't bother waiting >>for it to make it in to the tree. Sendmail 8.8.5 is available from >>ftp.sendmail.org and ftp.cert.org). > >Patch for the serious bug (which is there, right enough, in 8.8.4, and >probably 8.8.3): > >diff -r -c sendmail-8.8.4/src/mime.c sendmail-8.8.5/src/mime.c >*** sendmail-8.8.4/src/mime.c Sun Nov 24 07:27:26 1996 >--- sendmail-8.8.5/src/mime.c Tue Jan 14 17:21:22 1997 >*************** >*** 36,42 **** > # include > > #ifndef lint >! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mime.c 8.51 (Berkeley) 11/24/96"; > #endif /* not lint */ > > /* >--- 36,42 ---- > # include > > #ifndef lint >! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mime.c 8.54 (Berkeley) 1/14/97"; > #endif /* not lint */ > > /* >*************** >*** 958,967 **** > register char *p; > char *cte; > char **pvp; >- u_char *obp; > u_char *fbufp; > char buf[MAXLINE]; >- u_char obuf[MAXLINE + 1]; > u_char fbuf[MAXLINE + 1]; > char pvpbuf[MAXLINE]; > extern u_char MimeTokenTab[256]; >--- 958,965 ---- >*************** >*** 1045,1053 **** > c2 = CHAR64(c2); > > *fbufp = (c1 << 2) | ((c2 & 0x30) >> 4); >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >--- 1043,1052 ---- > c2 = CHAR64(c2); > > *fbufp = (c1 << 2) | ((c2 & 0x30) >> 4); >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || >! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >*************** >*** 1057,1065 **** > continue; > c3 = CHAR64(c3); > *fbufp = ((c2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((c3 & 0x3c) >> 2); >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >--- 1056,1065 ---- > continue; > c3 = CHAR64(c3); > *fbufp = ((c2 & 0x0f) << 4) | ((c3 & 0x3c) >> 2); >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || >! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >*************** >*** 1069,1103 **** > continue; > c4 = CHAR64(c4); > *fbufp = ((c3 & 0x03) << 6) | c4; >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbuf >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || *--fbufp != '\r') > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); > fbufp = fbuf; > } > } >- >- /* force out partial last line */ >- if (fbufp > fbuf) >- { >- *fbufp = '\0'; >- putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >- } > } > else > { > /* quoted-printable */ >! obp = obuf; > while (fgets(buf, sizeof buf, e->e_dfp) != NULL) > { >! if (mime_fromqp((u_char *) buf, &obp, 0, >&obuf[MAXLINE] - obp) == 0) > continue; > >! putline((char *) obuf, mci); >! obp = obuf; > } > } > if (tTd(43, 3)) > printf("\t\t\tmime7to8 => %s to 8bit done\n", cte); >--- 1069,1105 ---- > continue; > c4 = CHAR64(c4); > *fbufp = ((c3 & 0x03) << 6) | c4; >! if (*fbufp++ == '\n' || fbufp >= &fbuf[MAXLINE]) > { >! if (*--fbufp != '\n' || >! (fbufp > fbuf && *--fbufp != '\r')) > fbufp++; > *fbufp = '\0'; > putline((char *) fbuf, mci); > fbufp = fbuf; > } > } > } > else > { > /* quoted-printable */ >! fbufp = fbuf; > while (fgets(buf, sizeof buf, e->e_dfp) != NULL) > { >! if (mime_fromqp((u_char *) buf, &fbufp, 0, >! &fbuf[MAXLINE] - fbufp) == 0) > continue; > >! putline((char *) fbuf, mci); >! fbufp = fbuf; > } >+ } >+ >+ /* force out partial last line */ >+ if (fbufp > fbuf) >+ { >+ *fbufp = '\0'; >+ putline((char *) fbuf, mci); > } > if (tTd(43, 3)) > printf("\t\t\tmime7to8 => %s to 8bit done\n", cte); > > >Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 04:59:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA17917 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17912 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id XAA21523 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:29:28 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: CRC-16 algorithms? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:29:27 +1030 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Yes, this is FreeBSD-related 8) I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the polynomial are given. 8( If you're into cracking these sorts of things, here's the parameter space : 00000000 00 39 3c 3e 01 02 03 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.9<>............| 00000010 08 00 0e 20 3d 4b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 01 00 |... =K..........| 00000020 01 03 00 de ad 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 |....-...........| 00000030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 26 3c aa |.............&<.| The bytes at 0x3d and 0x3e are the CRC-16 of the bytes from 0-0x3c inclusive. Any help here will help make the DOS configuration utility for this device unnecessary, which would be nice 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 05:20:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA18642 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA18637 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA28217; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:19:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If anyone out there can get me the coefficients, I can deliver a program that will do the crc-16. But working out the polynomial minus the coefficients, well, I'll go with Barbie on this one: "Math is hard, let's go shopping" Not impossible: assuming this crc is accumulated 16 bits at a time, there are only 2^16 possible polynomials, after all ... at least it's not some crc-32! michael let me know if you don't get anywhere. ron Ron Minnich |"Failure is not an option" -- Gene Kranz rminnich@sarnoff.com | -- except, of course, on Microsoft products (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 05:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA18665 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA18660; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA04953; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:21:21 -0800 (PST) To: Stephen Hocking cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:04:38 +1000." <199701231104.VAA00380@mailbox.uq.edu.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:21:21 -0800 Message-ID: <4949.854025681@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It sounds like they're at least back to their original terms, anyway. Before they shut down the other unix ports, the deal was that if you sent them a full configured machine with reasonable amounts of disk space and memory, they'd do the port. Anyone who's into this want to send iD a box? I've none to spare myself, at the moment, nor do I think of quake as quite the kind of priority to which I would devote one if I had. :-) Jordan > > Fingering John Carmack at id (johnc@idsoftware.com) gives the following - > > > > On since Jan 6 14:59:09 5 days 19 hours Idle Time > on ttyp2 from idcarmack > On since Jan 12 21:58:30 10 days Idle Time > on ttyp3 from idcarmack > Plan: > Ok, off the soapbox and back to normal id stuff... > ============================ > Jan 12 > We now have someone officially in charge of quake/quakeworld unix ports: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Dave 'Zoid' Kirsch. > zoid@threewave.com > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Direct any correspondance about the linux ports of quake to him. If any othe r unix vendors would like to have quake ported to their environments, set up an equipment loan with him. > > This is a volenteer position, so don't give him a hard time. > ============================ > Jan 22 > A preliminary release of glquake and the 3dfx driver has been put on our ftp site in the idstuff/unsup directory. > one hour later... > 3dfx gave me a new vxd for glquake that fixes crashing problems on some penti um pro systems. glquake1.zip now contains the current file. > > > So Jordan, how 'bout it? Do you want to chase him up? The shareware version > would be a great thing to be able to ship on the 2.2 CD..... > > > Stephen > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 05:36:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA19347 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19342 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id AAA21608; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:06:09 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701231336.AAA21608@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: from "Ron G. Minnich" at "Jan 23, 97 08:19:36 am" To: rminnich@Sarnoff.COM (Ron G. Minnich) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:06:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ron G. Minnich stands accused of saying: > If anyone out there can get me the coefficients, I can deliver a program > that will do the crc-16. But working out the polynomial minus the > coefficients, well, I'll go with Barbie on this one: "Math is hard, let's > go shopping" Well, I tried the Xmodem CRC-16 algorithm, and that came up with the wrong result (0x1911), so I'm stumped 8( > Not impossible: assuming this crc is accumulated 16 bits at a time, there > are only 2^16 possible polynomials, after all ... at least it's not some > crc-32! Hmm, I was actually assuming that it was accumulated 8 bits at a time; the RAM is normally accessed in 8-bit lots, and there's an odd number of bytes involved... > michael let me know if you don't get anywhere. Ta! > Ron Minnich |"Failure is not an option" -- Gene Kranz -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 06:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA21049 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21041 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA09469 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:25:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701231425.IAA09469@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: adding grammar to config for 2.2 X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:25:47 -0600 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How do I add recognizable OPTIONS to the config in 2.2? After looking through the source for config, it seems to be magic. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 06:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA21147 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA21127 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA27563; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:16:20 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:16:19 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > If anyone out there can get me the coefficients, I can deliver a program > that will do the crc-16. But working out the polynomial minus the > coefficients, well, I'll go with Barbie on this one: "Math is hard, let's > go shopping" > > Not impossible: assuming this crc is accumulated 16 bits at a time, there > are only 2^16 possible polynomials, after all ... at least it's not some > crc-32! > > michael let me know if you don't get anywhere. I think you should check out the CRC used on HDLC. Look in the Tanenbaum book. There are actually not nearly that much useful CRC generating polynomials, because all useful polynomials should: 1. Be a multiple of (x+1). 2. Have a LSB of 1. However, most CRC codes complement some of the bits, either in the message or in the generated reminder to make the all zeros string, as well as the all ones string illegal. > > ron > > Ron Minnich |"Failure is not an option" -- Gene Kranz > rminnich@sarnoff.com | -- except, of course, on Microsoft products > (609)-734-3120 | > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html > > > Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 07:02:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA22661 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from chai.plexuscom.com (chai.plexuscom.com [207.87.46.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA22651 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:02:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from chai.plexuscom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chai.plexuscom.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA15500; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:01:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701231501.KAA15500@chai.plexuscom.com> To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:29:27 +1030." <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:01:13 -0500 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm > trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a > peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the > polynomial are given. 8( X^16 + X^15 + X^2 + 1 is what is most commonly referred to as the "CRC-16" polynomial. Another such polynomial is x^16+x^12+x^5+1. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 07:37:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA24254 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24249 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00487; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:36:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:36:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701231536.IAA00487@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: matra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZIP ppa In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a parallel port ZIP drive working perfectly under linux. How can > i use the ZIP under freeBSD? ----------------- Subject: ZIP Iomega driver ppa3.c 0.41 released ... Hi ! The driver is more clean and any SMC chipset should work, the HAVE_SMC patch has been removed. A tool is now available to modify ppa_epp_speed directly in /dev/kmem. See http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son/ppa3.html for more info. THIS IS ALPHA CODE, SEND ME A REPORT ABOUT HOW IT WORKS FOR YOU ! Have fun, nicolas -- Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr - http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son My ZIP Iomega link: http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son/ppa3.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 08:00:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25902 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA25897 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA29043; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:59:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: <199701231336.AAA21608@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > Hmm, I was actually assuming that it was accumulated 8 bits at a time; > the RAM is normally accessed in 8-bit lots, and there's an odd number > of bytes involved... yes but you can accumulate a CRC of any degree (8, 16, 32, etc.) with any number of bits at a time. For example, lots of hardware accumulates it a bit at a time (at the serial input). The nature of the CRC polynomical is not really affected by how many bits at a time you compute it. I have a C program that computes the atm crc-32 8 bits at a time, as well as a VHDL program that computes it 64 bits at a time. Not that any of this helps your current problem :-) ron From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 08:28:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27612 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.no (ns0.alcatel.no [193.213.238.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27605 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from stkd71.alcatel.no by gatekeeper.alcatel.no (8.7.3/Alcanet-SC) id RAA07566; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:28:34 +0100 (MET) Received: by stkd71.alcatel.no (5.57/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24804; Thu, 23 Jan 97 17:28:26 +0100 Message-Id: <32E79170.41C67EA6@alcatel.no> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:27:28 +0100 From: Arve Ronning X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? References: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > > (Yes, this is FreeBSD-related 8) > > I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm > trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a > peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the > polynomial are given. 8( > You should get hold of an article written by Aram Perez in IEEE MICRO june 1983 pages 40-50. It contains an excellent description of byte-wise CRC calculations with examples for CRC-16. The 16 bit polynominals mentioned in the article are CRC-16 x^16 + x^15 + x^2 + 1 SDLC(IBM,CCITT) x^16 + x^12 + x^5 + 1 CRC-16 reverse x^16 + x^14 + x^1 + 1 SDLC reverse x^16 + x^11 + x^4 + 1 As you may suspect from these examples, there can only be 2^15 different polynominals for calculating a 16 bit CRC result (they must all be x^16 + .... + 1). So, it should be possible to try them all :). However, a CRC calculation is'nt completely specified by the polynominal alone. There's also the question of which initial value use for the CRC (I've seen 0 and 0xFFFF) and one's complementing of the final CRC. So, you now have 2^17 possibilities (minimum, someone may be taking the one's complement of only part of the final CRC:(, or two different polynominals may give the same CRC for your test data). The chance is however, that one of the polynominals above has been used, which only leaves sixteen probable possibilities:). Test those. You may very well succeed ;-). Good luck, -Arve From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 09:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29644 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA29639 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA23916; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:48:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701231648.JAA23916@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Commerical applications (was: Development and validation To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:48:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@mt.sri.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701230232.TAA28344@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 22, 97 07:32:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ Voting ] > > > > Question: How will it generate work? > > There is absolutely *NO* reward for agreeing to implement what the users > vote for. Ah. Here is where you screwed up. Voting does not force implementation agreement on anyone. It only controls the focus of the organization as a whole. Focus != implementation. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 09:17:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00388 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:17:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00380 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA23956; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:54:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701231654.JAA23956@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:54:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Jan 23, 97 08:29:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >... I cannot help wondering why > >you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > >that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > >serves any purpose. ;-) > > In all seriousness, I agree. I can see a point in the discussion, but > surely -hackers isn't the place for it. Question: where does a discussion of changes to the structure of the FreeBSD project belong? Remember that Jordan fairly demanded I tell him how I would "fly the plane" after I asked the pilot to announce a destination at regular intervals. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 09:27:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00864 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from lassie.eunet.fi (lassie.eunet.fi [192.26.119.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00859 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from marathon.tekla.fi by lassie.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA26279 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:53 +0200 Received: from poveri.tekla.fi by marathon.tekla.fi (5.65/20-jun-90) id AA24616; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:52 +0200 From: sja@tekla.fi (Sakari Jalovaara) Received: by poveri.tekla.fi; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/20Aug96-0557PM) id AA15141; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:49 +0200 Message-Id: <9701231726.AA15141@poveri.tekla.fi> To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 00000000 00 39 3c 3e 01 02 03 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.9<>............| > 00000010 08 00 0e 20 3d 4b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 01 00 |... =K..........| > 00000020 01 03 00 de ad 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 |....-...........| > 00000030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 26 3c aa |.............&<.| > > The bytes at 0x3d and 0x3e are the CRC-16 of the bytes from 0-0x3c Just checking: without the _three_ last bytes of that data, the CRC-16 checksum is 0x3d3e? I don't seem to find such a CRC-16 algorithm (unless we assume an arbitrary "XorOut" parameter.) For trying CRC-16 with different parameters, get "crcmodel.c" from http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/isis/crc and use the following little main program. I didn't try all different "cm_init" values, just -1 and 0. Write your own for loop for that. You'll need another set of test data if you try that. Or if you try different final xor parameters. int main (void) { cm_t cm; int x, crc; static unsigned char data[] = { 0x00, 0x39, 0x3c, 0x3e, 0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x00, 0x80, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x08, 0x00, 0x0e, 0x20, 0x3d, 0x4b, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x02, 0x01, 0x00, 0x01, 0x03, 0x00, 0xde, 0xad, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x01, }; int n; for (x = 1; x <= 0xffff; x += 2) { cm.cm_width = 16; cm.cm_poly = x; cm.cm_init = 0L; cm.cm_refin = FALSE; cm.cm_refot = FALSE; cm.cm_xorot = 0L; cm_ini(&cm); for (n = 0; n < sizeof (data); n++) cm_nxt(&cm, data[n]); crc = cm_crc(&cm); if (crc == 0x3d3e) printf("%x %x\n", crc, x); } return 0; } ++sja From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 09:46:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01744 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01738 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04519 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:46:39 -0700 (MST) From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199701231746.KAA04519@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: suggestion for kernel printk() ? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:46:39 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! I just spent some time fighting a kernel that died miserably on boot :-( I was inundated with an endless stream of kernel messages (in highlighted text) followed promptly by a hard reset. It was quite frustrating to find that there doesn't seem to be a mechanism to pause the display at this point! OK, reboot from /kernel.old and look through the logs. Hmmm... nothing here! Probably the filesystem wasn't even functional when the boot ran into trouble. No problem, I'll move back to my kernel.old and rebuild incrementally from there until the problem manifests itself again and just note what my "latest change" happened to be (note that the new kernel built without errors so it's possible this was a probing problem). But, apparently the kernel image no longer contains the complete text of the kernel configuration file! :-( This sure had made it easier to backtrack in the past. Presumably, this has been removed to make the kernel's footprint smaller? Well, were there any *other* tricks I could have tried? I finally resorted to some (handwritten) logs to recreate the config file for the original (working) kernel... Thanks! --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 10:47:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA04141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA04134 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA24098; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701231831.LAA24098@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 23, 97 11:29:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (Yes, this is FreeBSD-related 8) > > I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm > trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a > peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the > polynomial are given. 8( > > If you're into cracking these sorts of things, here's the parameter space : > > 00000000 00 39 3c 3e 01 02 03 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.9<>............| > 00000010 08 00 0e 20 3d 4b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 01 00 |... =K..........| > 00000020 01 03 00 de ad 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 |....-...........| > 00000030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 26 3c aa |.............&<.| > > The bytes at 0x3d and 0x3e are the CRC-16 of the bytes from 0-0x3c > inclusive. Any help here will help make the DOS configuration utility > for this device unnecessary, which would be nice 8) Brute-force it; there are only 65536 * 2 * 4^2 possibilities, and of these, there are only 32768 "likely" values (non-reflected, polynomial value ends in 1, W XOR value is all 0's). Here is a pointer to code for generalized CRC algorithms: http://www.strangecreations.com/strange/library/misc/crc.txt It also contains code for table generation for building a table-driven implementation once you find the correct polynomial. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 11:32:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06035 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05986 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07050 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:26:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00761; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:32:47 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199701231832.TAA00761@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:32:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701230009.RAA22520@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 22, 97 05:09:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote... > > Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why > > you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > > that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > > serves any purpose. ;-) > > > > Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. > > The "incrowd" is an artificial distinction. > > "Sovereign power comes from a mandate from the people, > not because some watery tart lobbs a scimitar at you". > -- Dennis, who's not an old lady or an old man... Didn't some revolutionary (the name escapes me) say something to the effect of: "..When a king misuses his power, it is the duty of the people to overthrow him...?" ;-) OK, I will shutup now. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 11:40:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07289 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07205 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07324 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:32:41 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00678; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:22:46 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199701231822.TAA00678@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:22:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: rb@gid.co.uk, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701231654.JAA23956@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 23, 97 09:54:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote... > > >... I cannot help wondering why > > >you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > > >that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > > >serves any purpose. ;-) > > > > In all seriousness, I agree. I can see a point in the discussion, but > > surely -hackers isn't the place for it. > > Question: where does a discussion of changes to the structure > of the FreeBSD project belong? > > Remember that Jordan fairly demanded I tell him how I would "fly the > plane" after I asked the pilot to announce a destination at regular > intervals. Please note that my message was addressed to the S/N ratio in the discussion. Not to the fact that a 'Quo Vadis' discussion isn't useful as such. Wilko ('throws out his soapbox') _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 11:40:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07320 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07311 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07602 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:40:12 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA00718; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:42 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199701231826.TAA00718@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:26:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Bob Bishop" at Jan 23, 97 08:29:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bob Bishop wrote... > At 5:59 pm -0000 22/1/97, Wilko Bulte wrote: > >Hi there > > > >Being just an innocent (...) bystander... > > You watched this bloodbath and you did nothing, now you claim you're > innocent?! :-) :-) Well, people dipped their handkerchiefs in Dillinger's blood... 8-) Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 11:52:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08068 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08063 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA02742 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:52:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id UAA01609; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:46:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:46:15 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel configuration References: <28199.853858730@time.cdrom.com> <199701220857.TAA08248@profane.iq.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701220857.TAA08248@profane.iq.org>; from Julian Assange on Jan 22, 1997 19:57:21 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Assange wrote: > I feel a little woosey looking > at -DFFS -DIPDIVERT -DINSERTYOURUNDEPENDABLECPPDEFILEHERE's marching > up my screen during a kernel compile. A define which does nothing > is pointless and a define which does something potentially changes > code and so must be referred to as dependency by the code it effects. > The only command line define that is acceptable is -DKERNEL. -D_KERNEL, actually. But you're right. Unfortunately, it's still a mile to walk eliminating the remaining -Ds. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 11:59:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08322 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-39.netcom.ca [207.181.94.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08311 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA15424 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:58:57 -0400 (AST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:58:57 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: open up your (TCP) window (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hopefully without starting a major debate *grin*...can anyone with a firm grasp of what this guy is asking for explain it to me? About the only thing I can understand from this is that it seems that the FreeBSD box is isn't reading from the socket fast enough, or in large enough chunks? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:48:31 -0800 (PST) To: scrappy@hub.org Subject: open up your (TCP) window I pointed etherfind at a TCP connection between our servers and watched the transfer of a large article to your server. > Using interface le0 > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9CE08, window 799, <8> <10> Your server tells mine that it can accept 799 bytes of data. > TCP from news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 to hub.org.nntp seq 66D9CE08, ack 510D1447, window 17280, <8> <10> 799 bytes data Mine sends it. > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9D127, window 0, <8> <10> Your server tells my server that it got the data and isn't ready for any more right now. > TCP from news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 to hub.org.nntp seq 66D9D127, ack 510D1447, window 17280, <8> <10> 1 bytes data My server got impatient because it was in this state for a while and thought the packet from your server telling my server that it it could send more got lost on the net. So my server sent yours one byte of data (a zero window probe). > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9D128, window 0, <8> <10> Your server says it's still not ready for more. > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9D128, window 3071, <8> <10> Finally your server says send 3071 bytes. Even though it's TCP buffers were chock full of data for this connection (whatever your TCP receive buffer size is set to), innd only drained 3071 bytes when it got around to reading on the fd for this connection. What's your TCP receive buffer size set to? > TCP from news..gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 to hub.org.nntp seq 66D9D128, ack 510D1447, window 17280, <8> <10> 1440 bytes data > TCP from news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 to hub.org.nntp seq 66D9D6C8, ack 510D1447, window 17280, <8> <10> 1440 bytes data My server sends two big (maximal size?) packets in a row. > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9DC68, window 191, <8> <10> Your server acknowledges receipt, and says it still has 191 bytes of room. Apparently innd hasn't drained the buffers in the meantime (3071-1440-1440 == 191). > TCP from news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 to hub.org.nntp seq 66D9DC68, ack 510D1447, window 17280, <8> <10> 191 bytes data My server sends the remaining amount. > TCP from hub.org.nntp to news.gv.tsc.tdk.com.3551 seq 510D1447, ack 66D9DD27, window 0, <8> <10> Your server got the data and isn't yet ready for more. --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09258 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09252 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vnVGS-0003ZL-00; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:56:48 -0700 To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:20 MST." <199701231831.LAA24098@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701231831.LAA24098@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:56:48 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199701231831.LAA24098@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: : Here is a pointer to code for generalized CRC algorithms: : : http://www.strangecreations.com/strange/library/misc/crc.txt : : It also contains code for table generation for building a table-driven : implementation once you find the correct polynomial. Now that's a useful pointer! Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:21:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09642 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09634 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA03266; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:20:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA01723; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:09:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:09:14 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding grammar to config for 2.2 References: <199701231425.IAA09469@sierra.zyzzyva.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701231425.IAA09469@sierra.zyzzyva.com>; from Randy Terbush on Jan 23, 1997 08:25:47 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Randy Terbush wrote: > How do I add recognizable OPTIONS to the config in 2.2? > After looking through the source for config, it seems to be magic. /sys/conf/options /sys//conf/options. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:23:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09753 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09748 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01036; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:05:20 GMT Message-Id: <199701232005.UAA01036@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Andrew McRae cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@freebsd.org, jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:19:35 +1100." <199701230819.TAA16703@metaplex-ss10.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:05:20 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Presumably tun0 has its net interface on the application side, > so what does it do with the pkts it reads? Look at the IP > address inside the packet and then send it down a raw socket > to one of a couple of interfaces? How does it receive > the packets destined for the applications? Hmm, I guess > it can be done, but I doubt whether it would be real easy (in > my embedded environment, the forwarder could access the net > devices directly). The easy way to do this (in -current) is to feed off of a divert(4) socket. Pick up http://www.awfulhak.demon.co.uk/masqd.tar.gz for a simple example. Lines such as ipfw add 100 divert 6668 all from any to any ed0 ipfw add 100 divert 6668 all from any to any ed1 where ed0 and ed1 are your interfaces will send all ip traffic to socket 6668. You can then do what you want with it - like vary or change the destination IP on a per machine basis. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:23:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09823 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09816 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA03288; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:22:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA01761; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:13:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:13:08 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: dgy@rtd.com (Don Yuniskis) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? References: <199701231746.KAA04519@seagull.rtd.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701231746.KAA04519@seagull.rtd.com>; from Don Yuniskis on Jan 23, 1997 10:46:39 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > But, apparently the kernel image no longer contains the complete > text of the kernel configuration file! :-( It's back there again now, despite of a few people disagreeing. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:31:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10361 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (raffles.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10355 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA01326; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:26:38 GMT Message-Id: <199701232026.UAA01326@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Wilko Bulte cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:32:47 +0100." <199701231832.TAA00761@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:26:38 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Terry Lambert wrote... > > > Being just an innocent (...) bystander I cannot help wondering why > > > you people don't create a freebsd-nitpicking list. I sincerely doubt > > > that devoting 50% of -hackers traffic to some incrowd discussion > > > serves any purpose. ;-) > > > > > > Sorry, just had to get this out of my keyboard. > > > > The "incrowd" is an artificial distinction. > > > > "Sovereign power comes from a mandate from the people, > > not because some watery tart lobbs a scimitar at you". > > -- Dennis, who's not an old lady or an old man... > > Didn't some revolutionary (the name escapes me) say something to the > effect of: "..When a king misuses his power, it is the duty of the > people to overthrow him...?" ;-) [....] Not in The Holy Grail they didn't ! -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:31:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from fog.xinside.com (fog.xinside.com [199.164.187.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10403 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by fog.xinside.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id NAA01144; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:31:35 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fog.xinside.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from chon.xinside.com(199.164.187.134) by fog.xinside.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001142; Thu Jan 23 13:31:19 1997 Received: (from patrick@localhost) by chon.xinside.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA16043; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:31:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:31:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701232031.NAA16043@chon.xinside.com> From: Patrick Giagnocavo To: Mark Hannon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: dtmail & NFS mounted /var/mail In-Reply-To: <32E60CC9.A4@seeware.DIALix.oz.au> References: <32E60CC9.A4@seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Reply-To: support@xinside.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Hannon writes: > Hi again, > > Some more problems/issues with CDE. > > I am having some problems with dtmail accessing my /var/mail which > is NFS mounted from my mail-server. I can't seem to update the > inbox reliably and dtmail tends to crash when trying to do so.... > > I guess this is because we don't have any working NFS file-locking. > Does anybody have any suggestions as to how one could get this > working? > > I saw some mention of tooltalk helping me out here... is that true? > (CDE is not installed on the mail-server). > > Thanks, Mark Hello Mark, Thank you for your purchase of our AcceleratedX server and CDE. What may be happening is that dtmail is trying to lock the mail file with ToolTalk messages (especially if you are doing things on a Sun). The earlier version of ToolTalk that some Sun and other machines have is incompatible with CDE ToolTalk. Please put the following into your ~/.mailrc file: set cdenotooltalk Please let me know if this fixes the problem you are seeing. Cordially -- Patrick Giagnocavo - support@xinside.com Xi Graphics - Accelerated X Servers Technical Support Department From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:44:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11229 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from trout.mt.sri.com (trout.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.104]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11220 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.mt.sri.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id NAA05815 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:44:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:44:15 -0700 (MST) From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199701232044.NAA05815@trout.mt.sri.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: New Bootloader Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!agate!news.ucsc.edu!osr From: shaggy@csh.rit.edu (Frank Barrus) Newsgroups: comp.os.research Subject: ANNOUNCE: SOLO 0.97 OS Boot Loader Date: 23 Jan 1997 19:22:08 GMT Organization: Computer Science House @ Rochester Institute of Technology Lines: 189 Approved: comp-os-research@ftp.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <5c8dp0$2pe@darkstar.ucsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.cse.ucsc.edu Originator: osr@cse.ucsc.edu Announcing-- the new release of: SOLO 0.97 A standalone shell and boot loader for protected mode 32-bit i386/486/Pentium microkernels, full operating systems, and standalone programs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Available now in full source-code from: http://www.csh.rit.edu/~shaggy/software.html ftp://ftp.csh.rit.edu/pub/csh/shaggy (Floppy disk images are also available for a demo) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOLO is free software, for non-profit use. SOLO COMES WITH NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. New features, since version 0.96: SOLO shell features: o Full environment variable support, with the environment passed to the loaded kernels o Bourne-shell style quoting and escape rules for shell commands, along with '$' environment variable substitution o Can display dates and times on files o Can list all available boot devices/partitions and files o Flag commands (paging, msg, and diskwrite) have been replaced with environment variables (PAGING, MSG, and DISKWRITE) o Printing executable header information can be toggled with 'DEBUG' variable o 'PS1' variable can be used to set the prompt o Breakpoints (up to 4) can be set and displayed o Virtual memory support [ virtual, as well as physical, locations can be examined, copied, etc, to aid in debugging kernels ] o Better trapping for CPU resets, CTRL-ALT-DEL, etc. o Can list information about all open file descriptors o Default number base can be set (with BASE environment variable) o Can convert a number to binary, octal, decimal, and hexadecimal, as a convenience for debugging BootParam Interface: o The environment is now passed to the loaded kernel o Segment registers, as well as the GDT, are now saved and restored, so that more complex crashes can be trapped and debugged LibSOLO: o solo_getenv() added o solo_WriteMsg() added [for writing to the circular message buffer] o functions provided for mapping BootParam structure in and out of low memory [standard library functions automatically map it in when needed] o Split into separate headers and separate source files for each function, so there's no overhead for functions that aren't used Configuration: o Faster configuration process (over twice as fast in many cases) [ configuration of files (including making dependencies) is only performed when a file is first compiled ] o Alternate configuration target types can be set, and selected from any Make file or source file Misc: o screen is restored when changing video modes, or running 'vtest' to scan for all available modes o 'vidmode', 'vidhgt', 'vidwid', 'vidcrtc', and 'vidbase' variables are set to reflect the current video parameters, and to make this information available to kernels o 'lvidmode' environment variable added for setting default Linux video mode (for 'lboot' command) [ definitions for video modes for new Linux kernels are in 'solo.cmd' now ] o Includes two new standalone 32-bit sample programs: shuffle - uses the new video environment variables to write directly to the video display and shuffle the screen lsboot - lists all available boot devices and files [ an example of getting directory and device information ] o SOLO is only 14K in size (which means it grew by nearly 2K, but the usefulness of the new features was enough to justify the increase in size) o Various bug-fixes, code cleanups, etc... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brief Feature Overview: (not including new features listed above) o Great testbed for writing new operating systems on the PC platform, or for porting existing OS's to it o Loads 32-bit protected mode executables (ELF or a.out format) o Allows BIOS calls from 32-bit mode o Provides file access and console I/O from 32-bit mode o Statically mapped file system provides up to 32MB of startup files (depending upon block size and degree of fragmentation) o Built-in shell o Can run simple shell scripts (can provide menus, prompt for passwords, have timeouts, etc) o Can be booted from any partition (primary or extended) o Can be used to boot any partition (primary or extended) (thus, having SOLO on a floppy disk is great for booting from your hard drive if your master boot record ever gets damaged) o Uses only 32K total memory (which can be reclaimed if needed) o Can pass arguments to 32-bit programs o Can load Linux directly o Can boot other operating systems (and can stuff characters in the keyboard buffer before doing so) o Can co-exist with other operating systems on the same partition or floppy disk o Can scan and list all available text and graphics video modes and let you choose your preferred startup mode o Can redirect console I/O over serial port o Built in monitor for examining/changing memory and I/O o Built in "panic", with full register dump, for standalone programs and kernels that have not yet loaded their own trap or interrupt table - can even trap a CPU reset o Protected mode and virtual memory initialization, to allow kernels to actually start executing in the memory region they are expected to run in, without having to map memory themselves or relocate their code o Circular message buffer survives panics to save information that leads to system crashes o Extensible built-in "help" command, with descriptions of all built-in commands and other general information o 32-bit test programs included: solotest, hello, fdisk o Free for non-profit use (contact me for information about other uses) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- For a more complete feature listing, go to the web site, or FTP site, and get the file 'announce-solo-0.96', which contains more in-depth descriptions of all the original features. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOLO 0.97 is a pre-released portion of the full Shag/OS operating system distribution. However, it is meant to be useful as a standalone part, and will continue to be released as such even when full Shag/OS releases become available. The purpose of this "sneak preview" is to make this functionality and the knowledge of it available now to those who would find it useful, and to gather comments, suggestions (and even bug-reports) from others to aid in finishing the complete SOLO 1.0 release. SOLO 0.97 is *not* a finished a product, although it has most of the functionality most people probably need. As such, however, I can not and will not take any responsibility for any damages caused by this product. The risk is entirely yours. Therefore, back up all important data before running this program. If you are running SOLO off a floppy disk, you are probably safe as long as you avoid using the hard-disk devices, but it is still a wise idea to back up any important data on your machine. (or disconnect the hard-drive, just in case) To date, I know of no reason why this program would cause any damage to your system or your data if used sensibly, but with any new product on an untested system, it is better to be safe than sorry. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some operating system boot loaders take away your independence, by only allowing you to boot their operating system, and making it somewhat complicated to load others. Isn't it time to go SOLO, and have the freedom to boot your system any way you choose? Frank "Shaggy" Barrus: shaggy@csh.rit.edu; http://www.csh.rit.edu/~shaggy -- Frank "Shaggy" Barrus: shaggy@csh.rit.edu; http://www.csh.rit.edu/~shaggy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 12:57:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11888 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11881 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id OAA17948 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:57:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701232057.OAA17948@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:57:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD and VME Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anybody ever done or considered using FreeBSD for VME IO solutions? We're looking into Pentium-based Single Board Computer that drops into a VMEbus backplane. One board, that we have in-house for another project, is the General Micro Systems V254 Mustang. It's got dual P166 with on-board Ethernet and SCSI (DEC 21140 and Adaptec 7880 UW). I booted FreeBSD on it and it recognized everything, but I haven't had time to do an install and play around on it anymore. The VMEbus is interfaced to the PCI bus by the Universe VMEbus interface chip made by Tundra (formerly Newbridge Microsystems). Luckily, all the manuals for the chip are available at Tundras web site (http://www.tundra.com/Tundra/Products/Bus/BPI/Universe.html). How hard would it be to create a VMEbus driver for this? The project under consideration would only need to memory map VME devices, but having the ability to config a VME device at an address and VME interrupt priority/vector would be great for future work. Thanks, Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 13:50:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14152 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14147 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:50:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with UUCP id VAA29191; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:47:21 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:45:10 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:45:10 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199701231654.JAA23956@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: from "Bob Bishop" at Jan 23, 97 08:29:11 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 4:54 pm -0000 23/1/97, Terry Lambert wrote: >[...] >Question: where does a discussion of changes to the structure > of the FreeBSD project belong? Fair question. Certainly somewhere where those who ought to participate in, or might be affected by the discussion will see it. But I sympathise with the feeling that -hackers is not the ideal place. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 13:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14462 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip84-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA14457 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA27269; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:51:42 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199701232151.QAA27269@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Jan 23, 97 11:29:27 pm" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:51:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > (Yes, this is FreeBSD-related 8) > > I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm > trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a > peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the > polynomial are given. 8( > I'll send a CCITT CRC-16 algorithm to Michael. If anyone else wants it ask privately. -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 14:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16309 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16298 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:33:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701232233.OAA16298@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA255808786; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:33:07 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: open up your (TCP) window (fwd) To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:33:06 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "The Hermit Hacker" at Jan 23, 97 03:58:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from The Hermit Hacker, sie said: > > > Hopefully without starting a major debate *grin*...can anyone with a > firm grasp of what this guy is asking for explain it to me? About the > only thing I can understand from this is that it seems that the FreeBSD > box is isn't reading from the socket fast enough, or in large enough > chunks? Whatever software you're running that is receiving data is slow. but, on the setsockopt() thread of late, was it setting SO_SNDBUF that was overridden by the OS or SO_RCVBUF too ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 14:35:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16416 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16408 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA12197; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:37:09 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:37:09 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CRC-16 algorithms? In-Reply-To: <199701231259.XAA21523@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > (Yes, this is FreeBSD-related 8) > > I'm looking for any implementations of various CRC-16 polynomials; I'm > trying to compute a checksum for a parameter save area for a > peripheral, which is documented as "CRC-16", but no details of the > polynomial are given. 8( I'm sure there would be something in a Dr Dobbs sources backissue. Is there an index for Dr Dobbs? I think there was an implementation given in an Australian Personal Computer in 1989. It was in C. I had fun at the time hand-compiling it, but my XT of the time is no longer... Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 15:16:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18648 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18642 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA21713 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:16:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701232316.PAA21713@austin.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:16:51 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Everybody, thanks for all the helpful replies! This has really cleared some things up for me. Since several of the replies covered the same areas, I'm going to try to respond to them all together here. The point about 100BaseT failing differently from coax-based ethernet (the whole net doesn't go down if there's a cable problem) is well taken. It does change the problem somewhat. I still have coax in my own office ("if it works, don't fix it"), so I was incorrectly thinking in terms of how coax behaves. I also agree with the insight that adding a 2nd interface into each host and a 2nd set of cables is as likely to lower the reliability as it is to raise it. Unfortunately, this is a telephone company thing. There's a requirement that there must be "no single point of failure," and I doubt there's any flexibility to it. The ideas of using divert sockets or the tun interface are pretty tricky. I think they'd work, but I'm a little bit concerned about performance issues. I'm going to check out Julian Elischer's "netgraph" framework ASAP. A couple of folks mentioned the problem of losing existing connections in the event of failure, because they can't be moved to different IP endpoints. This may not be a big issue, as I think almost all the traffic will be UDP. I'll have to find out more from the client about how the network is used, before I'm sure about this one. But maybe it doesn't matter. I am quite intrigued by an idea that a person sent me in private mail. (If he wanted to be named, I assume he would have sent it to the list too.) This person suggested: > Non-simple solution. Three addresses for every machine. one on > each ethernet segment, and one off the loopback address. Then run > routed on every machine, told to advertize the third address out > both ethenet ports. > > I'm not sure if this would work, since I've never used routed, > though it sounds like it should ... It took me a while to grasp this, but here's what I think the idea is. I'll use actual numbers just to make it more concrete. We could assign addresses like this: Ethernet A: 192.168.1.x Ethernet B: 192.168.2.x Third address: 192.168.3.x If I understand the idea correctly, this third address would be assigned as an alias for the loopback device on each host, something like this: ifconfig lo0 inet 192.168.3.21 alias netmask 0xffffffff ^^ || host-specific, of course At the application layer, the 192.168.3.x addresses are the ones that would be used. The applications would never use the real addresses of the ethernets. Finally, each host would advertise a route to its 192.168.3.x address on both ethernet interfaces. In effect, each host acts as a gateway to itself. The only remaining problem is routed, and I now think Andrew Stesin was right on the money when he suggested: > No. RIP sucks and must die :) ... > Use Gated and OSPF. It will even do some kind > of load-sharing then, you will get kinda of 20Mb > between the hosts included into the structure. I read up on OSPF and gated this morning, and it looks like they're perfect for solving this problem. The documentation even seems to suggest the trick of adding a second address to the loopback interface, if I understand it right. If I've misunderstood the solution, or if it won't work, I hope somebody will let me know. :-) Again, thanks for all the help. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 15:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20003 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19993 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA21844; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:40:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701232340.PAA21844@austin.polstra.com> To: Andrew Stesin cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:08:08 +0200." References: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:40:06 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew, > Use Gated and OSPF. It will even do some kind of load-sharing > then, you will get kinda of 20Mb between the hosts included into > the structure. Thanks a lot for suggesting this. I didn't know much about gated or OSPF before, but I studied them this morning. I think they'll be perfect for this problem. Also, thanks for your very generous offer to help further! If I run into trouble or confusion, I'll let you know. Regards, John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 16:06:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21757 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21752 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA25574; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:49:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701232349.QAA25574@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and VME To: deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org (Daniel M. Eischen) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:49:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701232057.OAA17948@iworks.InterWorks.org> from "Daniel M. Eischen" at Jan 23, 97 02:57:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anybody ever done or considered using FreeBSD for VME IO > solutions? A Motorola engineer has used FreeBSD drivers and Interrupt handling on a Motorolla 88k RT system with a VME bus. He wrote his VME drivers, and it's not the full OS, so he can't give out the code. I discissed the VME interrupt handling in detail with him at one time, but I'm probably a bit rusty on it now (though I saved the discussion). If you get tot he point where you are implementing VME handling, then I can probably talk you around one or two pitfalls if you need it (you'll probably know much more about VME than me by then, though). > The VMEbus is interfaced to the PCI bus by the Universe VMEbus > interface chip made by Tundra (formerly Newbridge Microsystems). > Luckily, all the manuals for the chip are available at Tundras > web site (http://www.tundra.com/Tundra/Products/Bus/BPI/Universe.html). > > How hard would it be to create a VMEbus driver for this? The project > under consideration would only need to memory map VME devices, but > having the ability to config a VME device at an address and VME > interrupt priority/vector would be great for future work. Several NetBSD ports use VME code; that would be a good basis for a start. Unfortunately neither NetBSD nor FreeBSD have abstracted bus bridging very well (IMO, anyway), so there will be mapping issues to fight with. Probably asking on one of the NetBSD lists for VME based systems would be your next logical step. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 16:24:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23186 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from aris (aris.jpl.nasa.gov [137.79.6.113]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23168 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by aris (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA14880; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:23:58 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:23:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: hamby@aris Reply-To: Jake Hamby To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: XFree86@xfree86.org Subject: How to type French characters into Netscape? In-Reply-To: <199701231815.AA04536@simi.gmd.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id QAA23170 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I'm CC'ing this question to FreeBSD-hackers as well as XFree86 because it seems to be more of a FreeBSD/Netscape related question now that I've figured out the XFree86 angle) Thanks to those who responded to my initial query, now I am able to type the French accented characters in XFree86 (instructions are given below). But now I have a different problem: FreeBSD Netscape doesn't support the accented characters! I'm using the Netscape-3.01 port under FreeBSD-current and XFree86 3.2. When I paste, for example, an é into Netscape, I get nothing, when I try to type it ( + ' + e), I get 'e, which isn't right either. Is there something I can figure to make Netscape's text-entry boxes 8-bit clean? Is it because it's an X11R5 binary? Would using the Linux version of Netscape help? If I can't figure this out, I'm just going to use my BeBox web browser because this X configuration nonsense has wasted too much of my time already! I was successfully able to map the Right Alt key to Multi_key, by changing the line in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/keymap/xfree86 from: xkb_symbols { include "us(pc105)" }; to xkb_symbols { include "us(pc101compose)" }; This changes the Right ALT key to work like the Compose key on a Sun, which is what I wanted in the first place. In fact, if it wasn't for Netscape (or for that matter "tcsh") not being 8-bit clean, I probably would've figured this out a while ago. Any suggestions on getting Netscape to work would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |Jake Hamby| Ask me about Unix, FreeBSD, Solaris, The Tick, BeOS, or NT, eh? | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This space intentionally left blank." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 16:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24468 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24376 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA03246; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:29:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240029.QAA03246@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert Cc: deischen@iworks.interworks.org (Daniel M. Eischen), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD and VME Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:28:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:49:44 -0700 (MST) Terry Lambert wrote: > Unfortunately neither NetBSD nor FreeBSD have abstracted bus bridging > very well (IMO, anyway), so there will be mapping issues to fight > with. ...you're kidding, right? Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 16:35:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24538 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:35:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24526 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from spiffy.cybernet.com (spiffy.cybernet.com [192.245.33.55]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12803 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:44:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:02:38 -0500 (EST) Organization: Cybernet Systems Corporation From: Mark Taylor To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Job Offerings Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cybernet Systems is searching for experienced software people for hire or long-term consultation in the following areas: web programming: skills in HTML and CGI scripting in a UNIX environment are required UNIX kernel protocol programmers: knowledge of IP, IPX, and AppleTalk are needed and desirable Serious UNIX programmers are encouraged to apply - there is always a place for people with knowledge and drive. Cybernet Systems is an eight year old company based in Ann Arbor, Michigan with a history of government and commercial R&D and product development in areas of networking, robotics, computers, and AI. Interested people please contact Personnel Manager Marty Murdock at mmurdock@cybernet.com, by phone at (313) 668-2567 or fax at (313) 668-8780. Expedite consideration by sending resume or vita. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark J. Taylor Network R&D Manager Cybernet Systems mtaylor@cybernet.com 727 Airport Blvd. PHONE (313) 668-2567 Ann Arbor, MI 48108 FAX (313) 668-8780 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 17:52:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29110 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA06457; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:51:56 -0800 (PST) To: Don Yuniskis cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:46:39 MST." <199701231746.KAA04519@seagull.rtd.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:51:56 -0800 Message-ID: <6454.854070716@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But, apparently the kernel image no longer contains the complete > text of the kernel configuration file! :-( This sure had made it easier > to backtrack in the past. Presumably, this has been removed to make the > kernel's footprint smaller? You need to explicitly select this feature now. From LINT: # This allows you to actually store this configuration file into # the kernel binary itself, where it may be later read by saying: # strings /kernel | grep ^___ | sed -e 's/^___//' > MYKERNEL # options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 17:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29329 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [128.173.246.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29324 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08108; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:54:47 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199701240154.UAA08108@goof.com> Subject: Re: Driver for New SMC 10/100's To: jc@irbs.com (John Capo) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:54:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John Capo" at Jan 22, 97 09:37:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Capo writes: > Quoting matthew c. mead (mmead@goof.com): > > I saw a thread with a patch and a couple of source code > > suggestions to make the new revision of the SMC 10/100 Mbit > > ethernet cards work properly, however, I couldn't get them to > > work. Is there a known fix for 2.1.6? Thanks! > > > > ftp://ftp.irbs.com/FreeBSD/pci/if_de.c adds support for the SMC9332BDT > using a 21140A. I have not used this on a 100Mbs network. Works > fine at 10Mbs. > > John Capo > Thanks a bundle! I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I'll let you know when I do. The machine I stuck it on is great - 200Mhz PPro, 128M ram, 45G disk. :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@goof.com http://www.goof.com/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 18:16:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00497 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00473; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (jamie@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28274; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:28:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:28:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: chat@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: newbie type environment Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have had several requests for the environment I setup for my wife, so on ftp.inna.net:/pub/jamie/ is a file called newbie.tgz. You will need to get that, put the zap perl script in /usr/local/bin, and compile and install runas. All of these are in the .tgz file. You will need to make sure your kernel is pppd capable, cause I can't stand user ppp. You will need to touch /etc/ppp/options as root, or make it an empty file if it already exists (I do everything on the command line). You will need to place the three ppp.* files (in their own .tgz file) in /root, and chmod the ppp.connect 0700, the ppp.dial 0700, and the ppp.pap (I assume all ISP's are pap'ing these days) 0600. You will need to edit ppp.dial and ppp.pap with appropriate phone # and login/password (respectively). You could substitute sudo for runas, if you could turn off the annoying 'gimme your passwd to do anything' feature. Runas is an easy compile. Read the instructions, edit the Makefile before you do your final build, and make sure you check the line for INSTALL, and replace it with a valid install command. It does this to insure you know it's install suid root, and so you aren't doing something you are unaware of. You might also want to change the base install dir from /usr/local/runas to /usr/local. You will need to be root to make or edit all runas files ( they untar as root.staff owned). I realise it could be easier, but I don't precompile runas do the fact that I wouldn't accept a precompiled suid root binary, and won't give someone else one either. It shouldn't take anyone on any of these lists more than half an hour to install this little package. runas supports acl's as well for a sudo like environment so you don't have to give a totally clueless person full root access. Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 18:18:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00707 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00699 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA11404; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:15:40 -0500 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199701240215.VAA11404@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: [Fwd: LDAP object schema for NIS/UNIX/KERB ] To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:15:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <32E737F0.167EB0E7@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 23, 97 02:05:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Julian Elischer had to walk into mine and say: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > --------------794BDF32446B9B3D2781E494 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Bill, any comments? [chop] Yes: - I hate getting MIME mail. :) - I can only handle one catastrophe at a time. Right now I've got three catastrophes to contend with (maintaining NIS, integrating Secure RPC (soon now; I promise!) and finishing off NIS+). _Maybe_ when NIS+ support is done I can look at LDAP. And NDS (assuming Novell ever actually releases the protocol spec so us mere mortals can get a look at it). - The owls are not what they seem. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 18:31:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01471 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from aries.bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01401 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:30:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by aries.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA16701; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:22:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:22:44 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Bob Bishop cc: Terry Lambert , wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terry: a bystanders view... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Bob Bishop wrote: > At 4:54 pm -0000 23/1/97, Terry Lambert wrote: > >[...] > >Question: where does a discussion of changes to the structure > > of the FreeBSD project belong? > > Fair question. Certainly somewhere where those who ought to participate in, > or might be affected by the discussion will see it. But I sympathise with > the feeling that -hackers is not the ideal place. Of course it belongs in freebsd-structure. it's obvious. ;-) Or maybe freebsd-design, Or maybe freebsd-future_development, Or maybe freebsd-where_are_we_going? Ok, maybe not. (I tried to stay out of this thread :-) ) Chris Coleman (chris@aries.bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Technician I (509)-766-8873 Big Bend Community College Internet Instructor Death is life's way of telling you you're fired. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 19:53:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04814 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04809 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) id TAA17933 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:53:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen Message-Id: <199701240353.TAA17933@schizo.cdsnet.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: OK, stumped by init Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just installed 2.2-BETA on a new P6 with a 3.1GB WD IDE disk. I built a custom kernel, stripped out the extraneous stuff, recompiled, installed it, and rebooted it. It fails when starting up init, with cannot allocate memory errors, and fsck can't even get enough memory to check the root partition. Booting generic kernel works fine. Stepped through the kernel config file line by line, and it's not leaping out at me. Any idea appreciated. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 19:56:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04915 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04910 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA05644; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:56:28 -0700 (MST) From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199701240356.UAA05644@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:56:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6454.854070716@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 23, 97 05:51:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But, apparently the kernel image no longer contains the complete > > text of the kernel configuration file! :-( This sure had made it easier > > to backtrack in the past. Presumably, this has been removed to make the > > kernel's footprint smaller? > > You need to explicitly select this feature now. From LINT: > > # This allows you to actually store this configuration file into > # the kernel binary itself, where it may be later read by saying: > # strings /kernel | grep ^___ | sed -e 's/^___//' > MYKERNEL > # > options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel (sigh) This wasn't available in the 2.1 release. ;-) [but it's reintroduction later is welcomed news!] I'd still like to know of any good workarounds to pause the scrolling of the diagnostic messages at the *initial* stage of the boot (i.e. after the kernel image has been loaded). Thanks! --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 20:54:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA07041 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (widefw.csl.sony.co.jp [133.138.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07036 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:54:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp [43.27.98.57]) by widefw.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.3/3.5Wbeta) with ESMTP id EAA14894 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:54:00 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp (8.8.4/3.3W3) with ESMTP id NAA12432 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:53:44 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199701240453.NAA12432@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tcp window size problem, again Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:53:44 +0900 From: Kenjiro Cho Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Recently, I did some network performance benchmarking on high speed network (ATM and 100baseT), and found that the FreeBSD's score is far behind other systems. It turns out that the TCP window size gets reset to the default value at a connection establishment on FreeBSD. After digging into the hackers ML archive, I found this problem was already discussed back in September. (see Garrett's comment attached below.) I don't have a good solution to resolve the conflict between a value by SO_ SNDBUF/SO_RCVBUF and a value by the route. But at least we should leave out setting stupid rmx_snedpipe/rmx_recvpipe values. The current in_addroute() in in_rmx.c sets tcp_sendspace/tcp_recvspace to rmx_sendpipe/rmx_recvpipe. This has no effect when the socket buffer size is not changed, but it does override the socket buffer size even when the socket buffer size has been changed. There is no positive effect to set these default values. By leaving out the default values for rmx_sendpipe/rmx_recvpipe, the behavior of TCP falls back to the original BSD implementation. - SO_SNDBUF/SO_RCVBUF work as expected. - administrators can override the socket buffer size by explicitly setting sendpipe/recvpipe to a route. We can leave the problem of the conflict until someone comes up with a better handling of rmx_sendpipe/rmx_recvpipe. Anyway, with a larger socket buffer size, the TCP score jumps up from 70Mbps to 120Mbps! It's pitty if FreeBSD gets a reputation of bad netwrok performance by benchmark tests. --Kenjiro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:05:04 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, phk@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Changing default TCP window size ? < said: > How do I force TCP (or the OS) to use a window size different from the > default 16K ? > The following code > mywin=DESIRED_WINDOW_SIZE; > setsockopt(f, SOL_SOCKET, SO_SNDBUF, (char *)&mywin, sizeof mywin) > appears to set the value correctly (it can be read back with > getsockopt) but then it appears not to have any effect on TCP > (monitoring the connection with netstat -na always shows a Send-Q > around 16KB, and the throughput in window-limited configurations > remains unchanged). This is a conflict that needs to be resolved between the option-processing code and the code that attempts to set the socket buffer size based on what's in the route. I can't give you a fully-fleshed-out solution, but essentially the code needs to check if there is a buffer size specified via setsockopt, and if there is, then it should ignore the values in the route (or perhaps it should use the lock bits in the route to indicate some sort of clamping). I have a long-standing bug report form Matthew Dillon about this, but it has not had a sufficiently high priority to get done. Come up with a good fix and I'll take it. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 21:29:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA08298 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08279; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA09010; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:30:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:30:02 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: DDD 2.0 port Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). Also, what's the general consensus on DDD?? It looks excellent from the web page (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/softech/ddd/)... Is there are better GUI debugger out there for FreeBSD? DDD certainly seems way more sophisticated than xxgdb! TIA, -Mark P.S. I'd compile it myself, but I don't have Motif. Maybe I'll grab the latest "LessTif" and see if it works... --------------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | --------------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 21:36:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA08704 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08697 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA25863; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:36:17 -0700 (MST) From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199701240536.WAA25863@hemi.com> Subject: Re: open up your (TCP) window (fwd) To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:36:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701232233.OAA16298@freefall.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Jan 24, 97 09:33:06 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren wrote: > but, on the setsockopt() thread of late, was it setting SO_SNDBUF > that was overridden by the OS or SO_RCVBUF too ? SO_RCVBUF is affected as well. Regards, -Ade ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 21:59:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA09587 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09582 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA06263 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:59:45 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701240559.AAA06263@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: setpwfile: Why was it removed? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:59:45 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It was such a handy feature! -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 22:32:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10822 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10814 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA16057 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:32:16 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id HAA20330 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:31:53 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id HAA16046; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:27:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:27:14 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to type French characters into Netscape? References: <199701231815.AA04536@simi.gmd.de> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58.1-8,11-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2944 In-Reply-To: ; from Jake Hamby on Jan 23, 1997 16:23:57 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jake Hamby: > Netscape (or for that matter "tcsh") not being 8-bit clean, I probably > would've figured this out a while ago. Any suggestions on getting For the record, tcsh has been 8bit clean for _years_. 211 [7:25] roberto@keltia:PATCHES/57> ééééççŕŕččůů 212 [7:26] roberto@keltia:PATCHES/57> echo $version tcsh 6.07.02 (Astron) 1996-10-27 (i386-intel-FreeBSD) options 8b,nls,dl,al,rh -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #36: Mon Jan 13 21:43:35 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 23 23:51:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA13783 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13775; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00908; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240751.XAA00908@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: multimedia@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: New Bt848 Video capture driver for FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, This is the first alpha release of the Bt848 video capture driver . Tested with an Intel Smart Video Recorder III. If you are interested you can get the distribution from ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/bt848.tar.gz Please don't hesitate to send me bug reports or comments. Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 00:26:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15156 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15149 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id TAA07251; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:24:43 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:24:43 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701240824.TAA07251@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just spent some time fighting a kernel that died miserably >on boot :-( I was inundated with an endless stream of kernel >messages (in highlighted text) followed promptly by a hard reset. >It was quite frustrating to find that there doesn't seem to be a >mechanism to pause the display at this point! I use a serial console and `terminalprogram | tee foo' to capture the output. > OK, reboot from /kernel.old and look through the logs. Hmmm... >nothing here! Probably the filesystem wasn't even functional when >the boot ran into trouble. Boot messages are supposed to be preserved in the message buffer across reboots. However, many PC BIOSes and/or memory systems do something that invalidates the message buffer even for a soft reboot. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 00:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA16008 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from siesta.cs.wustl.edu (nw1@siesta.cs.wustl.edu [128.252.165.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16003 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by siesta.cs.wustl.edu (SMI-8.6/ECL-J1.00) id CAA26225; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:54:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199701240854.CAA26225@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Nanbor Wang Subject: pthread problem in 2.2-BETA Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:54:07 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, Recently, I am working on porting ACE into FreeBSD. While playing with the pthread functions, there seems to be a problem in function "pthread_getspecific." In its man page, the function's prototype is void * pthread_getspecific(pthread_key_t key) However, in , it is defined as, int pthread_getspecific __P((pthread_key_t, void **)); Seems to me that the one in the definition is correct (conforms with POSIX.) Unfortunately, after checking the source, in libc_r, it is written as defined in the . Has anyone addressed this already? I realized that the pthread we currently have doesn't conform with the latest POSIX standard. It doesn't seem difficult to correct this "specific" problem. Any idea? _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Nanbor Wang http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~nw1/ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 01:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16586 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (mvs.oac.ucla.edu [164.67.200.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16565; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240908.BAA16565@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from UCLAMVS.BITNET by MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (IBM MVS SMTP V2R2.1) with BSMTP id 8148; Fri, 24 Jan 97 01:08:37 PST Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 01:08 PST To: Amancio Hasty From: Denis DeLaRoca Subject: Re: New Bt848 Video capture driver for FreeBSD CC: multimedia@FREEBSD.ORG, hackers@FREEBSD.ORG, hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:33 -0800, Amancio Hasty said: > > This is the first alpha release of the Bt848 video capture driver . Tested > with an Intel Smart Video Recorder III. If you are interested you can > get the distribution from ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/bt848.tar.gz Will a Vic driver be forthcoming? -- Denis From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 01:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18303 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18297; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01385; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:55:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240955.BAA01385@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Denis DeLaRoca cc: multimedia@FREEBSD.ORG, hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Bt848 Video capture driver for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:08:00 PST." <199701240908.BAA01215@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:55:47 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nope, because it is already included in the distribution. Regards, Amancio >From The Desk Of Denis DeLaRoca : > On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:51:33 -0800, > Amancio Hasty said: > > > > This is the first alpha release of the Bt848 video capture driver . Tested > > with an Intel Smart Video Recorder III. If you are interested you can > > get the distribution from ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/bt848.tar.gz > > Will a Vic driver be forthcoming? > > -- Denis > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 02:43:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA21086 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko.DIALix.oz.au (root@gecko.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21079 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (uucp@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by gecko.DIALix.oz.au with ESMTP id RAA05911 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:16:39 +0800 (WST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au with UUCP id UAA15379; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:28:23 +1100 (EST) Received: from putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au [10.0.0.1]) by doorway.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02820; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:04:26 +1100 (EST) From: Mark Hannon Received: (from mark@localhost) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02107; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:03:04 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:03:04 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701232103.IAA02107@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> To: mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@xinside.com Subject: Re: dtmail & NFS mounted /var/mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: MVW3h3/22gtxr7o4nCxDIQ== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Some more problems/issues with CDE. > > > > I am having some problems with dtmail accessing my /var/mail which > > is NFS mounted from my mail-server. I can't seem to update the > > inbox reliably and dtmail tends to crash when trying to do so.... > > > > I guess this is because we don't have any working NFS file-locking. > > Does anybody have any suggestions as to how one could get this > > working? > > > > I saw some mention of tooltalk helping me out here... is that true? > > (CDE is not installed on the mail-server). > > > > Thanks, Mark > > Hello Mark, > > Thank you for your purchase of our AcceleratedX server and CDE. > > What may be happening is that dtmail is trying to lock the mail file > with ToolTalk messages (especially if you are doing things on a Sun). > The earlier version of ToolTalk that some Sun and other machines have > is incompatible with CDE ToolTalk. > > Please put the following into your ~/.mailrc file: > > set cdenotooltalk > > Please let me know if this fixes the problem you are seeing. > Hi Patrik, I used another solution. I moved /usr/dt & /usr/X11R6 over to my fileserver (another FreeBSD box with /usr/local, /home exported) and mounted them back to the workstation so that tooltalk is available on both machines. Now tooltalk seems to be working at all is well. /Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 03:14:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA22083 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from deepo.prosa.dk ([193.89.187.27]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22065; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.4/prosa-1.1) id MAA12623; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:15:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:15:07 +0100 From: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Cc: shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au (Stephen Hocking), multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? References: <199701231104.VAA00380@mailbox.uq.edu.au> <4949.854025681@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A i386 In-Reply-To: <4949.854025681@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Jan 23, 1997 05:21:21 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh) ecrit/writes: > Before they shut down the other unix ports, the deal was that if you > sent them a full configured machine with reasonable amounts of disk > space and memory, they'd do the port. Anyone who's into this want > to send iD a box? This could be a group contribution (...for people in U.S. I dare say :-) > I've none to spare myself, at the moment, nor > do I think of quake as quite the kind of priority to which I would > devote one if I had. :-) Political reasons ? Publicity ? Bragging ? All of the above ? -- -- Phil -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@.prosa.dk ]- -[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E PGP Key: finger regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 03:18:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA22269 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22264; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA14610; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:18:15 -0800 (PST) To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) cc: shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au (Stephen Hocking), multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:15:07 +0100." Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:18:13 -0800 Message-ID: <14581.854104693@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I've none to spare myself, at the moment, nor > > do I think of quake as quite the kind of priority to which I would > > devote one if I had. :-) > > Political reasons ? Publicity ? Bragging ? All of the above ? Like I said, if someone ELSE would like to give them a box, they are by all means welcome to do so! I'm one of those old farts who has no time for games now and considers them a rather frivolous waste of time, better spent on more productive pursuits. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 03:44:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA23283 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA23273 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA36196; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:43:58 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:43:57 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: John Polstra cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-Reply-To: <199701232316.PAA21713@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, John Polstra wrote: > The point about 100BaseT failing differently from coax-based ethernet > (the whole net doesn't go down if there's a cable problem) is well > taken. You still have a hub, though -- hub's failure is similar to a coax' failure, everything on the segment dies. > > Non-simple solution. Three addresses for every machine. one on > > each ethernet segment, and one off the loopback address. That's a usual way of doing things on routers -- router-ID is an alias tied to the loopback. > ifconfig lo0 inet 192.168.3.21 alias netmask 0xffffffff > ^^ > || > host-specific, of course Yes. But make sure that a set of IP addresses used for loopback-aliased router-IDs is _not_ covered by any of the subnets (address ranges). > At the application layer, the 192.168.3.x addresses are the ones > that would be used. Yes, probably. But just to be sure, I'd prefer to use gethostbyname() and try all the addresses for the given hostname in turn -- or even simultaneously. > The applications would never use the real addresses of the ethernets. Yes. This may be achieved just with a proper DNS: Direct zone: host1 IN A 192.168.3.1 ; do we really need the 2 following? ; IN A 192.168.1.1 ; IN A 192.168.2.1 Reverse zone: 192.168.3.1 IN PTR host1.dom.ain. 192.168.1.1 IN PTR host1.dom.ain. 192.168.2.1 IN PTR host1.dom.ain. > Finally, each host would advertise a route to its 192.168.3.x > address on both ethernet interfaces. In effect, each host acts as a > gateway to itself. Yes. OSPF will do this for you almost automagically -- you just use a "stubhost" to describe this alias (router-ID) in "ospf" section of gated.conf. > I read up on OSPF and gated this morning, and it looks like they're > perfect for solving this problem. The documentation even seems to > suggest the trick of adding a second address to the loopback > interface, if I understand it right. Yes. This is a usual approach, as I noticed already. -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 03:55:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA23738 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:55:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA23727 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:55:09 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA14073 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 03:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5102 invoked by uid 110); 24 Jan 1997 11:54:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19970124115452.5101.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <14581.854104693@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 24, 97 03:18:13 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:54:52 +1100 (EST) Cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au, multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm one of those old farts who has no time for games now and considers > them a rather frivolous waste of time, better spent on more productive > pursuits. :-) > > Jordan Of all the wonderful things a fast 3d engine could be used for, it is somehow philosophically telling that it is used for gut splatter. -- Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 04:46:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA26883 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA26877 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 04:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.6/BSD4.4) id XAA08098 Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:45:27 +1100 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199701241245.XAA08098@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-Reply-To: from Andrew Stesin at "Jan 24, 97 01:43:57 pm" To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:45:27 +1100 (EST) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Stesin writes: > Yes. But make sure that a set of IP addresses > used for loopback-aliased router-IDs is _not_ covered > by any of the subnets (address ranges). You need to exercise some degree of caution with this. The temptation is to use a subnet with a netmask so small as to only accomodate that of the loopback interface (255.255.255.252 is commonly used on Ciscos). This is all well and good when everything else listening to your IGP understands what it means. If you have "legacy" hardware lying about (some terminal servers and Cisco 1003s come to mind), you need to be very careful about what you propagate into other, classful IGPs (such as RIPv1 or IGRP) so that they too can understand how to forward packets properly. I suggest trying to arrange things such that appropriate route summarisation can be achieved by judicious rules in gated.conf on suitable (and comprehensible) subnet boundaries. In my case, it was easy - such hardware only gets a default route and nothing else :-) michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 05:34:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA28535 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA28529 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from creator.gu.kiev.ua (stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua [194.93.190.3]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA31562; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:34:11 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:34:11 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin X-Sender: stesin@creator.gu.kiev.ua To: michael butler cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets In-Reply-To: <199701241245.XAA08098@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, michael butler wrote: > > > Yes. But make sure that a set of IP addresses > > used for loopback-aliased router-IDs is _not_ covered > > by any of the subnets (address ranges). > > You need to exercise some degree of caution with this. The temptation is > to use a subnet with a netmask so small as to only accomodate that of the > loopback interface (255.255.255.252 is commonly used on Ciscos). 255.255.255.255 will do (at least does for me both on cisco's and on Gated's loopbacks). This means that you get your loopback as a "stub host" in OSPF terms, not a "stub net" -- why loose addresses due to unneccesary "wide" netmask? I just take a /27 subnet (32 addresses) and assign them one-by-one to routers as their IDs, with 0xffffffff netmask, and with no regard to wherever the router topologically or physically belongs to (keeping only administrative issues in mind). And this just works. > This is all well and good when everything else listening to your IGP > understands what it means. If you have "legacy" hardware lying about (some > terminal servers and Cisco 1003s come to mind), you need to be very careful > about what you propagate into other, classful IGPs (such as RIPv1 or IGRP) > so that they too can understand how to forward packets properly. I think that that wouldn't be a cool idea -- to use legacy crap in such a setup; especially with 100Mbit ether :) (Show me that old dumb device, which a) doesn't understand OSPF and b) has 100Mbit ether interface! :) And I think that a great majority of today's terminal/access servers and other "hardware" routers understand and implement OSPFv2, just any device smarter than an oak table should do. ;) > I suggest trying to arrange things such that appropriate route summarisation > can be achieved by judicious rules in gated.conf on suitable (and > comprehensible) subnet boundaries. In my case, it was easy - such hardware > only gets a default route and nothing else :-) Yes. Me thinks - this is the very best approach if you should deal with dumb, RIP-1-only devices: let "smart" devices (cisco 25xx and better, FreeBSD+gated) play all the routing game, and let them just decide where others should go; "smarties" redistribute only an appropriate default into RIP, redirecting all others to wherever is appropriate at the moment. But I'd better avoid that "way too dumb" devices at all. > > michael > -- Best, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 05:53:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA29050 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.uq.edu.au (zzshocki.slip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.221.173]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA29045; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from bloop.craftncomp.com (localhost.craftncomp.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailbox.uq.edu.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00437; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:45:40 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199701241345.XAA00437@mailbox.uq.edu.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: proff@suburbia.net cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au, multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Possible Quake port to FreeBSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:54:52 +1100." <19970124115452.5101.qmail@suburbia.net> From: shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au Reply-To: shocking@mailbox.uq.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:45:38 +1000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Of all the wonderful things a fast 3d engine could be used for, it is somehow > philosophically telling that it is used for gut splatter. > Yeah - Ain't it wonderful? Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 06:47:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA01388 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01381; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA06600; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:55:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E8BEFD.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:54:05 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bde@FreeBSD.org CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Bruce! HHHEEELLLLPPPP! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok well the subject laine says most of it.. I have a device driver, that does some fancy linking with other modules in the kernel (i.e. a netgraph node) I can run the test program once which links the nodes up and sends some messages around, and then shuts down. the second time I do that the system hangs. attempts to follow it in the kernel debugger result in the system 'stoppping' on passing an splx(). I presume that it's racing off somewhere and falling over or looping, buit whatever it's doing, it doesn't make it back to the debugger. I've traced the problem down to s few simple bits of TOTALLY INNOCENT bits of code (i.e if they aer linked into the node graph the problem occurs but if they are replaced by a dummy (echo) node. I an run the test forever.. Bruce.. I spent quite a few hours trying to understand the interrupt masking system and failed.. can you tell me what I should do to make the interrupt from sio1 bust it's way in through ANYTHING so that I can put a breakpoint on it and try get a stacktrace when the thing freezes by sending a character in? This system has no keyboard unfortunatly.. just 2 sio devices one of which is the console and has the debugger running on it.. Any other suggestions accepted.. (I don't have the info and tools to put a button on NMI much as I'd like to....) This has had me stopped in my tracks for 3 days now.. I'm trying to make a test case that I can mail out but it's kinda tricky as it's in a driver for a prototype board that no-one else has (yet). is this the sort of thing you could trap with the "Bruce debugger?" julian (sitting next to the terminal and anxiously awating your reply) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 07:52:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04090 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04046; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA07157; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:51:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:51:50 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701241551.IAA07157@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Mark Mayo Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). I'm still using 1.4. > Also, what's the general consensus on DDD?? It looks excellent from > the web page (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/softech/ddd/)... Is there are > better GUI debugger out there for FreeBSD? DDD certainly seems way > more sophisticated than xxgdb! I find it to easiest to use debugger around, and give it high-marks. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 08:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA06651 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [206.222.77.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06638; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10423; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:44:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:44:27 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Mayo To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: <9701241054.AA05704@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 garyj@frt.dec.com wrote: > > mark@quickweb.com writes: > > > > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). Also, > > what's the general consensus on DDD?? It looks excellent from the web page > > (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/softech/ddd/)... Is there are better GUI debugger > > out there for FreeBSD? DDD certainly seems way more sophisticated than > > xxgdb! > > > > TIA, > > -Mark > > > > P.S. I'd compile it myself, but I don't have Motif. Maybe I'll grab the > > latest "LessTif" and see if it works... > > > > in /pub/FreeBSD/incoming on ftp.freebsd.org we have: > > ddd-1.3d-FreeBSD.static.gz > ddd-1.4a-FreeBSD.static.tgz > ddd-1.4b-freebsd.tgz > ddd-1.4c-i386-unknown-freebsd2.2-static.gz > ddd-2.1.0.README > ddd-2.1.0.tar.gz > > Seems to me that ddd-2.1.0 should work with FBSD 2.2. Well, it turns out that "ddd-2.1.0.tar.gz" was actually ddd v1.3b (for FreeBSD 2.1.0...). So it would appear that the latest and greatest version "carried by" FreeBSD is 1.4c (Nate uses this one, as well as several other people who responded and I forget their names.. :-)). It seems that DDD is quite a popular GUI debugger. Unfortunately, it's not compiled up for version 2.0 yet -- so us folks without Motif can't use it. On the plus side, I tried out 1.4c and it seems quite excellent!! Now I really want to see 2.0! Maybe this weekend I'll dig into LessTif and see if I can get it compiled... Thanks, -Mark > > --- > Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com > (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de > (play) gj@freebsd.org > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 08:50:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA06889 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06884 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id IAA18869 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA27247; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:31:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701241631.JAA27247@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and VME To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:31:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, deischen@iworks.interworks.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701240029.QAA03246@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at Jan 23, 97 04:28:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:49:44 -0700 (MST) > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Unfortunately neither NetBSD nor FreeBSD have abstracted bus bridging > > very well (IMO, anyway), so there will be mapping issues to fight > > with. > > ...you're kidding, right? No, actually... I did say "IMO". The definition of a huge amount of string data for PCI is not a win. Also, there is no concept of running ISA devices over a passive PCI backplane. There are a number of ruggedized systems becoming available which place the bridge chip and the ISA devices on the other side of a PCI/ISA bridge; ie: ISA Mult-I/O + PIA + IDE <--> ISA/PCI bridge <--> PCI slot ^ | v Memory + CPU + L2 cache <--> PCI chipset <--> PCI slot ^ | v PCI video card <--> PCI slot ^ | v PCI disk controller <--> PCI slot ^ | v PCI ethernet controller <--> PCI slot Most of the code in the OS's assume the local processor bus will not be PCI (except CGD's and Jeffrey Hsu's DEC Alpha 21064/21066 stuff). For example, there are a number of PCI interrupt sharing issues for PCI devices on PCI/PCI bridged busses (AHA3940 channel 2, etc.). There is also not the concept of an ISA PnP bus being bridged seperately from a ISA non-PnP bus, nor is there a concept of the ENPIC bus bridge being a bridge in the formal sense for PCMCIA devices onto any bus. Boith of these are necessary to establish probe-order for a fully PnP OS, and to resolve PnP/non-PnP ISA issues, like the Acer IRQ-12 consuming bus mouse (if it's any consolation, both Windows95 and Windows NT fail to identify the use of IRQ-12 by the bus mouse on this system). Busses need to be probed and attached in a precedence order in the same way that cards are probed and attached in a precedence order on an ISA bus to prevent destructive probes from making hardware useless. Finally, neither OS is fully PnP aware, such that OS level configuration can be used to allocate PnP assignments (this is needed for PnP cards in a non-PnP BIOS equipped system). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 09:04:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07369 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07364 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA01939; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:04:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id LAA28841; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:04:30 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199701241704.LAA28841@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant network with 2 ethernets To: jdp@polstra.com (jgfbsd) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 11:04:28 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701222351.PAA04715@austin.polstra.com> from "jgfbsd" at Jan 24, 97 10:55:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is probably a routing 101 question. But I've never had to do much > with routing, so I could use some advice. :-) > A client wants a fault-tolerant LAN setup like this: > > ethernet A (100BaseT) > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > | | | | | | > host host host host host host > | | | | | | > ---+------+------+------+------+------+--- > ethernet B (100BaseT) > > The goal is that either ethernet could go down, yet all the hosts could > still talk to each other. Or, one of the ethernet cards on a host could > go down, and it could still talk to all the other hosts. In either > case, it has to happen automatically, without manual intervention. Load > balancing isn't a goal, just fault-tolerance. > > At first I was hoping that routed could do this for me, without > the applications even being aware of it. But now I'm not so sure. > Each ethernet will have to have its own IP network number (right?), > and so each host will have to have 2 IP addresses. A given packet > will be addressed to only a single IP address, and that implies > it's headed for a particular ethernet. If that ethernet is down, > all addresses on it are down, and the packet won't be delivered > no matter what routed does. > > Is this analysis correct? Is there a simple way to get what I want? > How about a non-simple way? Hi, You are talking about something that I've been working on for a long time, because I'm paranoid, I've experienced failures, and I hate single points of failure. You have a problem because you can legitimately run dual ethernets, but each is addressed differently. So when your application connects to "box1", with IP addresses a.b.1.1 and a.b.2.1, it randomly picks one address (maybe a.b.1.1). So you are now bound to that interface, and if the interface, wire, or hub goes away, you are toast. You can get around that by putting a virtual interface on each machine (maybe an alias for the loopback device, or a separate lo1 interface) and numbering it uniquely (a.b.3.1). Now, if you are real careful, you make sure all your applications bind to this address. In particular, when you open a socket, make sure that you are bound to your local "virtual" interface. Otherwise the kernel will conveniently wire you down to a real one, which defeats all of this. Now you are bound, on each end, to interfaces that are (theoretically) 100% reliable. Enable packet forwarding, and use OSPF to fill in the holes. OSPF will allow you to route to your hearts content even through a very broken network, as long as a path exists. I'm not sure how easy it would be to make a third-party application "network-independent" in this manner. You could do it, of course, with a modified shared libc. I hope this covers your question, it's the only "true" solution I know of, and I hope my answer is clear. ;-) Drop me a line if not. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 09:15:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07732 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07727; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA27323; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:59:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701241659.JAA27323@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Bruce! HHHEEELLLLPPPP! To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:59:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <32E8BEFD.167EB0E7@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 24, 97 05:54:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I can run the test program once which links the nodes up and > sends some messages around, and then shuts down. > the second time I do that the system hangs. How are you draining the interrupts prior to deregisterring, so that when you reuse the kernel address space for a different driver, an interrupt handler currently in process is not overwritten? There is a generic problem with the LKM system in terms of reference counting, since really there is no active reference counting that can be inversely implied from devices anyway. The only place I really took care of this in the original LKM system was FS's and system calls. The System calls were predicated on the idea that you would write your call's stat routine, and write an unload routine that would: 1) Prevent further entry 2) Wait for processes currently in the code to exit OR force them to exit with error (if possible) 3) Unload when the code was no longer in use Because the rundown code was module-specific, the actual practice was to veto unload and start rundown; this was shown in the sample system call and in the FS unload-without-rundown in the case of an FS module in use for a mount at the time of the request. > attempts to follow it in the kernel debugger > result in the system 'stoppping' on passing an splx(). > I presume that it's racing off somewhere and falling over > or looping, buit whatever it's doing, it doesn't make it back to > the debugger. I've traced the problem down to s few simple bits of > TOTALLY INNOCENT bits of code (i.e if they aer linked into > the node graph the problem occurs but if they are replaced by > a dummy (echo) node. I an run the test forever.. You can not permit interrupts to be processed while you are manipulating structure. Most likely, the code is not present when this happens. It might be worthwhile to flush the instruction cache pipeline (assuming you are using a Pentium or better) by causing a sync operation for the pipe. This would guard against the code in the icache being stale (not very likely, but possible). Alternately, you could be experiencing a nasty L2 cache interaction (I think this is less likely than the "replacing active but unreferenced code entered by an interrupt handler" case). > Bruce.. I spent quite a few hours trying to understand > the interrupt masking system and failed.. I think it's a case of unregistration being required, not masking; Bruce can correct me, but I think a masked interrupt which occurs while masked is delivered at unmask time. This is a scary thought, since it bears on the question "how do I disable an interrupt without potentially causing it to occur following unregistration?". Probably this will have to be done in the routing/delivery code instead of at the hardwre level (mask it, disable it, unmask it, and eat it if it subsequently occurs). Masking a hardware interrupt can not be the answer; I think it would fail in APIC I/O mode anyway, but it would *certainly* fail to do the right thing for a shared PCI or Level EISA interrupt. One diagnostic you might try is to modify the LKM system to not free the memory on unload. This would leave identical code in memory. If you are masking for stack architecture changes, and this causes the code to not fail, then you have identified the problem as the "unloaded" code being entered. Alternately, you could replace the LKM loaded code with a JMP to panic code at the end of the allocation area, and incrementally reverse back up with NOP's. This would let you catch the code being erroneously entered, since after the fill, if the IP goes to one of the NOP's, it executes them all until the JMP (or whatever; I recommend something as small as you can possibly get, though). The inverted fill is in case you run into the IP going the other way. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 09:41:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09076 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09065; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id EAA24032; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:37:02 +1100 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:37:02 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701241737.EAA24032@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@FreeBSD.org, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: Bruce! HHHEEELLLLPPPP! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >can you tell me what I should do to make the interrupt from sio1 >bust it's way in through ANYTHING so that I can put a breakpoint >on it and try get a stacktrace when the thing freezes by sending >a character in? BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER or just a breakpoint on siointr() should already allow sio activity to interrupt almost anything and give control to ddb. You can't do any better without an NMI. >is this the sort of thing you could trap with the "Bruce debugger?" It wouldn't help grab control. Once it gets control it can single step better, unless cpu interrupts are already masked (as they are in siointr()). ddb doesn't mask cpu interrupts itself, so it never gets full control unless interrupts are already masked. Change the debugger trap gates in machdep.c to interrupt gates and remove the `sti' from BPTTRAP() in exception.s to fix this. More is required to keep control while single stepping. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 09:58:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09670 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA09663 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA05329; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:58:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Mark Mayo Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [cc: list trimmed however slightly] [DDD 1.4c works, but 2.0 isn't compiled w/ Motif yet...] >On the plus side, I tried out 1.4c and it seems quite excellent!! Now I >really want to see 2.0! Maybe this weekend I'll dig into LessTif and see >if I can get it compiled... I think it would be a truly noble cause for one of the Motif-laden experts out there to compile this for the masses so we don't have to use LessTif...btw, the version of LessTif in ports is 0.75a, 0.76 is out as of 16-Jan-97. So...COOL, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 10:01:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09887 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09856; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:01:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id EAA24457; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:56:15 +1100 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:56:15 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701241756.EAA24457@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@whistle.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Bruce! HHHEEELLLLPPPP! Cc: bde@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I can run the test program once which links the nodes up and >> sends some messages around, and then shuts down. >> the second time I do that the system hangs. Program or lkm shuts down? >I think it's a case of unregistration being required, not masking; >Bruce can correct me, but I think a masked interrupt which occurs >while masked is delivered at unmask time. This is a scary thought, >since it bears on the question "how do I disable an interrupt >without potentially causing it to occur following unregistration?". >Probably this will have to be done in the routing/delivery code >instead of at the hardwre level (mask it, disable it, unmask it, >and eat it if it subsequently occurs). Lots of things aren't quite right for unregistering modules and interrupts, but unexpected interrupts from failing to service or mask interrupts before unregistering them are sent to the stray interrupt handler where they shouldn't do much damage. See eisaconf.c for almost the correct order (there is still problem if there is a pending interrupt. The problem is increased by masking interrupts using splfoo(). Pending interrupts are delivered after the ipl is reduced sufficiently, so it doesn't quite work to do: s = splfoo(); <-- if an interrupt occurs here... disable_foo_interrupts(); eisa_release_intr(...); splx(s); <-- ...it will be delivered here Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 10:17:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10682 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10670 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com ([144.54.57.34]) by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23640; Fri, 24 Jan 97 13:16:09 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA15204; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:14:28 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:14:27 -0500 From: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) To: graichen@rzpd.de (Thomas Graichen) Cc: tech@OpenBSD.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: magic of western digital disks ... ? References: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701191244.NAA00878@prospero.at.home>; from Thomas Graichen on Jan 19, 1997 13:44:27 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |if i have an wd disk in the computer and it is not set in the bios (for |instance second disk on the first controller or any disk on the second |controller - old machine with only two disks in bios) it will be detected at |bootup by OpenBSD and FreeBSD correctly but i can't access it under OpenBSD |(FreeBSD works fine) - under OpenBSD i get different errors - on one machine This may be related. In my experience and in others' I know, I've/they've never had much success getting a Western Digital to slave to a hard drive of another manufacturer. They'll slave to other Western Digs just fine, but when mixing types I've always had to make the Western Dig the master. Now the underlying reason for this I don't know. Randall Hopper From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 10:31:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11542 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:31:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11533; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07643; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:27:29 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:27:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701241827.LAA07643@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer), bde@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bruce! HHHEEELLLLPPPP! In-Reply-To: <199701241659.JAA27323@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <32E8BEFD.167EB0E7@whistle.com> <199701241659.JAA27323@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ It's not obvious if the driver in questions registers/unregisters an IRQ. ] > > Bruce.. I spent quite a few hours trying to understand > > the interrupt masking system and failed.. If you want Julian, I *think* I have a pretty good understanding of the interrupt masking system (including a lot of 'mis-features' w/regards to IRQ unloading/unregistering. I have broken code which works better, but doesn't take into account things like the net/tty/clock masks, so it ends up locking up my system if I load/unload PCCARD drivers from my system after a while. > I think it's a case of unregistration being required, not masking; Yep, and unregisteration doens't occur. > Bruce can correct me, but I think a masked interrupt which occurs > while masked is delivered at unmask time. This is a scary thought, > since it bears on the question "how do I disable an interrupt > without potentially causing it to occur following unregistration?". If you disable the interrupt and remove it's IRQ handler, then you'll get a 'stray interrupt' at unmask time, which is 'handled' sort of. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 11:13:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13641 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fog.xinside.com (fog.xinside.com [199.164.187.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13629 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:13:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by fog.xinside.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id MAA08703; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:13:26 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: fog.xinside.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from landru.xinside.com(199.164.187.210) by fog.xinside.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008701; Fri Jan 24 12:12:59 1997 Received: from localhost (localhost.xinside.com [127.0.0.1]) by landru.xinside.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22577; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:06:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:06:36 -0700 (MST) From: Jon Trulson Reply-To: jon@xinside.com To: "Brian N. Handy" cc: Mark Mayo , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Brian N. Handy wrote: > [cc: list trimmed however slightly] > > [DDD 1.4c works, but 2.0 isn't compiled w/ Motif yet...] > > >On the plus side, I tried out 1.4c and it seems quite excellent!! Now I > >really want to see 2.0! Maybe this weekend I'll dig into LessTif and see > >if I can get it compiled... > > I think it would be a truly noble cause for one of the Motif-laden experts > out there to compile this for the masses so we don't have to use > LessTif...btw, the version of LessTif in ports is 0.75a, 0.76 is out as of > 16-Jan-97. I have compiled it for both Motif 1.2 and 2.0, though there is a problem with the file dialog box - ie: it SEGV's... There is mention in the PROBLEMS file about this behavior on Linux... I haven't investigated the problem in any detail (real 'paying' work to do you see :). If I ever get it working reliably, I'll let you know, though don't hold your breath ;-) By the way, for those who haven't seen it, it *is* real nice... > > So...COOL, > > > Brian > > - -- Jon Trulson work: mailto:jon@xinside.com, home: mailto:jon@radscan.com Xi Graphics, http://www.xinside.com ID: 1A9A2B09, FP: C23F328A721264E7 B6188192EC733962 PGP keys at finger:trulson@rainbow.rmii.com or http://home.rmi.net/~jon #include We are Grey. We stand between the Candle and the Star. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMukIQpv9MhmQHeeBAQEFsAf8C1Oc/+7mMLFWon7eXjg8LnxNlqGktD6W DYzGBU+KeuSEkbgPAd8r8mWgPt8pZ/68VCoHBrV19sirNYIBcR9qaCXUfk29LePZ /MonPVrytcbM3utbfBpWY171XTZLpeInU3E7HBkNMpNOT/eCuce7gjyuVCmKT0t2 OcNcNprmZvZjw9imowfPXriU78dpM1SrzaICUhWrNQB7ysOrOk4R1mB462NGqQyC 9rpOnm5kdrewSpKTmxCyYtPk3aVRj7SewIcapyNuNY8H51KxhL8/DNigk/HY0dOf 8w74sgrPasks1XPO+glaHDMQiw4JOU3y6rJ/kSrNfaGZKq4g0TCFOw== =wz0j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 11:19:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13921 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13911; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.21]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25128; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA30546; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:19:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: gilligan.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:18:59 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Nate Williams cc: Mark Mayo , hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: <199701241551.IAA07157@rocky.mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). > > I'm still using 1.4. > > > Also, what's the general consensus on DDD?? It looks excellent from > > the web page (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/softech/ddd/)... Is there are > > better GUI debugger out there for FreeBSD? DDD certainly seems way > > more sophisticated than xxgdb! > > I find it to easiest to use debugger around, and give it high-marks. I moved to 2.0, and found it solved some bugs for me. I like it pretty well. Liked tgdb better, but had too much trouble keeping that one working. > > > > Nate > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 12:13:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16837 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16794; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06592; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:12:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:12:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" X-Sender: ejs@harlie To: Chuck Robey cc: Nate Williams , Mark Mayo , hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). FYI, I found this on the DDD web page (answering the LessTiff question) Will DDD be liberated from Motif? We have tested DDD with LessTif 0.75a, a free Motif clone. With a few simple fixes, the resulting DDD is quite satisfying. And yes fixes is a link to the necessary fixes. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 12:55:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18756 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18751; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:55:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.21]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA28486; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA30659; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:54:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: gilligan.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:54:49 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: Nate Williams , Mark Mayo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). > > FYI, I found this on the DDD web page (answering the LessTiff question) > > Will DDD be liberated from Motif? We have tested DDD with LessTif > 0.75a, a free Motif clone. With a few simple fixes, the resulting DDD > is quite satisfying. > > And yes fixes is a link to the necessary fixes. Unfortunately, most of the reported problems in that fix page have no solution. There is a promise that it will work for lesstif version 0.76. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 15:06:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25396 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25390 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04114 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:06:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:06:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vm_page_alloc messages. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk # uname -a FreeBSD news.cdsnet.net 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Jan 9 16:36:35 PST 1997 root@news.cdsnet.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEWS i386 # dmesg | grep vm vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 56 vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 21 vm_page_alloc(NORMAL): missing pages on cache queue: 1 vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 15 vm_page_alloc(NORMAL): missing pages on cache queue: 1 Is this good, bad, indifferent? Should I panic? Should I just pretend it didn't happen? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 17:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA08463 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from jason.garman.net (pm106-02.dialip.mich.net [192.195.231.204]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08453 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1341 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Jan 1997 01:40:17 -0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:40:17 -0500 From: garman@jason.garman.net (Jason Garman) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: garman@phs.k12.ar.us X-Phase-Of-Moon: The Moon is Waning Gibbous (99% of Full) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 2.1.5-RELEASE Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have one of these lame ide controllers? These things, in addition to having the rz1000 flaws, also freeze the machine when both ide channels are accessed on the machine. Is there any chance for a workaround in the FreeBSD wdc driver? I have a nice 2 gig drive sitting here spinning its heads for nothing :-( I tried doing some modifications myself, but as the extraordinary novice kernel hacker I am, I only got it to hang the specific process doing the disk access, not the entire machine. A little improvement, I guess :-/ L*nux has an option `hda=serialize' to do this. Is there any chance FreeBSD could have an CMD640B_SUCKS_ROCKS_SERIALIZE_REQUESTS option in the kernel config file? Thanks, -- Jason Garman http://www.nesc.k12.ar.us/~garman/ Student, Eleanor Roosevelt High School garman@phs.k12.ar.us From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 18:17:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11108 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11102 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA15868 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:16:54 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA03783; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:14:31 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199701250214.VAA03783@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: vm_page_alloc messages. To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:14:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Jan 24, 97 03:06:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > # uname -a > FreeBSD news.cdsnet.net 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Jan 9 > 16:36:35 PST 1997 root@news.cdsnet.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEWS i386 > # dmesg | grep vm > vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 56 > vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 21 > vm_page_alloc(NORMAL): missing pages on cache queue: 1 > vm_page_alloc(ZERO): missing pages on cache queue: 15 > vm_page_alloc(NORMAL): missing pages on cache queue: 1 > > Is this good, bad, indifferent? Should I panic? Should I just pretend it > didn't happen? > Is this really the -current of Jan 9? Yikes, there is a problem. You should be "ok", but those diagnostics indicate a problem. (What is the date of your kernel sources?) Sorry for the bad news (actually it is MY bad news :-(). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 18:48:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12679 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12673 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.33] by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.59 #1) id 0vnqQm-0006UK-00; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:32:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:32:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: garman@phs.k12.ar.us cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Jason Garman wrote: > Does anyone have one of these lame ide controllers? These things, in > addition to having the rz1000 flaws, also freeze the machine when both ide > channels are accessed on the machine. Is there any chance for a > workaround in the FreeBSD wdc driver? I have a nice 2 gig drive sitting > here spinning its heads for nothing :-( > > I tried doing some modifications myself, but as the extraordinary novice > kernel hacker I am, I only got it to hang the specific process doing the > disk access, not the entire machine. A little improvement, I guess :-/ > > L*nux has an option `hda=serialize' to do this. Is there any chance > FreeBSD could have an CMD640B_SUCKS_ROCKS_SERIALIZE_REQUESTS option in the > kernel config file? > > Thanks, > -- > Jason Garman http://www.nesc.k12.ar.us/~garman/ > Student, Eleanor Roosevelt High School garman@phs.k12.ar.us > > Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why bother? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 21:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18036 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ishifishy.ishiboo.com (ishifishy.ishiboo.com [208.128.22.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18031 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kneel@localhost) by ishifishy.ishiboo.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) id WAA28150 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:46 -0700 (MST) From: Neal Fachan Message-Id: <199701250512.WAA28150@ishifishy.ishiboo.com> Subject: Possible projects? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:46 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Don't know if this is the correct place to put it, so if it isn't, please redirect me. I am currently taking an independent study os course here at UNM (university near money). I am working with Dr. Barne Maccabe. Figuring that the best way to learn os's is to hack them, we have decided this will be a project course. Also figuring that if I work on a toy, there will be no motivation to finish it; we have decided that I should do something non-toyish. I have unfortunately not been able to convert any of the linux using faculty to FreeBSD yet (though there are a few promising leads...), thus his suggestions are to do things with linux. Most of these are just fixing things, say NFS, TCP, NIS, etc. But I cannot bear the thought of having to deal with linux, especially at that level. :-) So, are there any reasonable projects in the areas of VM or file-systems that are not too high priority, but at the same time are desirable, that I could possible work on? I would like it to be possible, assuming that I do something reasonable, for the code to be merged back in the tree; but at the same time, I am not asking for anyone to just let some "undergrad who just learned to spell ``C'' last week" one the team. I am just looking for a promising project. So is there a to-do list or any other list of ideas? Or does anyone out there have any ideas? I would say that I am an intermediate programmer. I have been programming for about three years, but only one and a half intensely. I am fluent in C. I have dealt with reasonably large (100k line) projects in the past... Thanks for any leads. -- Neal Fachan kneel@ishiboo.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 22:43:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA21644 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21637 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:43:23 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA00408 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16053 invoked by uid 110); 25 Jan 1997 06:43:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19970125064310.16052.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: new socket hash tester available at vger (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:43:09 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Sat Jan 25 06:24:19 1997 Return-Path: Delivered-To: proff@suburbia.net Received: (qmail 15819 invoked from network); 25 Jan 1997 06:24:10 -0000 Received: from roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (132.248.29.2) by suburbia.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 1997 06:24:10 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.6.12/8.6.11) id AAA15613 for netdev-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:11:07 -0600 Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.100]) by roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA15608 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:11:01 -0600 Received: from jenolan.caipgeneral (jenolan.rutgers.edu [128.6.111.5]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13853 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by jenolan.caipgeneral (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA07136; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:08:06 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:08:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199701250608.BAA07136@jenolan.caipgeneral> From: "David S. Miller" To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Subject: new socket hash tester available at vger Sender: owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx, "David S. Miller" and two days late, sorry about this... It has lots of new "features", check it out: ? ./sockhash badargs Usage ./sockhash hash_technique socket_parser file Try './sockhash -v' to get list of parsers and hashers known ? ./sockhash -v Available socket parsers: linux solaris_netstat netstat_trad Available hash techniques: FreeBSD Linux DaveM Schenk1 Schenk2 Gangstad ? ./sockhash Schenk2 linux cloos_virtual.tcp.1 TCP sockets added 660, hash table size 256 schenk1_hash: Using X1(00007107) X2(00004b82) X3(00003fb7) X4(000066e2) Schenk2: empty[28] single[119] collisions[num(109)deepest(32)avg(4)] ? ./sockhash FreeBSD linux cloos_virtual.tcp.1 TCP sockets added 660, hash table size 127 FreeBSD: empty[4] single[10] collisions[num(113)deepest(210)avg(5)] ? ./sockhash Linux linux cloos_virtual.tcp.1 TCP sockets added 660, hash table size 256 Linux: empty[44] single[79] collisions[num(133)deepest(227)avg(4)] ? ./sockhash Schenk1 linux cloos_virtual.tcp.1 TCP sockets added 660, hash table size 256 schenk1_hash: Using X of 00000653 Schenk1: empty[32] single[132] collisions[num(92)deepest(37)avg(5)] ? Go fetch, at: vger.rutgers.edu:/pub/linux/Net/socket_hashing/sockhash.c Have fun kids. ---------------------------------------------//// Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & //// 199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s //// ethernet. Beat that! //// -----------------------------------------////__________ o David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ >< From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 22:50:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA21865 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21859 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18009 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:50:06 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199701250650.IAA18009@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: tzsetup broken? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:50:06 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, On at least a 2.2-BETA install and my 3.0-CURRENT machine tzsetup does not show all countries. I noticed it when I couldn't find South Africa/ Johannesburg. I had a look in the /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab and /usr/share/misc/iso3166 files and South Africa isn't there. A quick check show that there is some other countries in Africa that also does not show up in tzsetup. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 24 23:55:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA23293 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23288 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) id SAA06028; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:55:04 +1100 (EST) From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199701250755.SAA06028@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: How to type French characters into Netscape? In-Reply-To: from Jake Hamby at "Jan 23, 97 04:23:57 pm" To: hamby@aris.jpl.nasa.gov Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:55:03 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, XFree86@xfree86.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >(I'm CC'ing this question to FreeBSD-hackers as well as XFree86 because it >seems to be more of a FreeBSD/Netscape related question now that I've >figured out the XFree86 angle) > >Thanks to those who responded to my initial query, now I am able to type >the French accented characters in XFree86 (instructions are given below). >But now I have a different problem: FreeBSD Netscape doesn't support >the accented characters! I'm using the Netscape-3.01 port under >FreeBSD-current and XFree86 3.2. When I paste, for example, an é into >Netscape, I get nothing, when I try to type it ( + ' + e), I >get 'e, which isn't right either. > >Is there something I can figure to make Netscape's text-entry boxes 8-bit >clean? Is it because it's an X11R5 binary? Would using the Linux version >of Netscape help? If I can't figure this out, I'm just going to use my >BeBox web browser because this X configuration nonsense has wasted too >much of my time already! It is because it is an X11R5 binary. The Linux Netscape binary seems to be linked against R6 libraries, but when I try it on FreeBSD 2.2 it crashes early with SIGEMT (am I doing something wrong here, or is it known to not work?). One way that does work with the BSDI Netscape binary is to make use of Mode_switch, and map accented characters to the 3rd and 4th keysym slots. For example, if I do: xmodmap -e 'keysym a = a A aacute Aacute' then Mode_switch + A -> aacute and Mode_switch + Shift + A -> Aacute. If you have the "standard" XFree86 3.2 XKB settings: XkbRules "xfree86" XkbModel "pc101" XkbLayout "us" You can enable various ways of switching between the first and second pair of mappings by adding a line: XkbOption "OPTION" where "OPTION" is one if "+group(switch)", "+group(toggle)", "+group(shift_toggle)", "+group(ctrl_shift_toggle)", "+group(ctrl_alt_toggle)". See the file /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/group for a description of these. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 00:10:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23831 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23825 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19476 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:10:01 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199701250810.KAA19476@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: tzsetup broken? In-Reply-To: <199701250650.IAA18009@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from John Hay at "Jan 25, 97 08:50:06 am" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:10:01 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL24 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > On at least a 2.2-BETA install and my 3.0-CURRENT machine tzsetup does > not show all countries. I noticed it when I couldn't find South Africa/ > Johannesburg. I had a look in the /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab and > /usr/share/misc/iso3166 files and South Africa isn't there. A quick ^^^^^ Oops that should have been is. The names are in the files, but they don't show up in tzsetup. > check show that there is some other countries in Africa that also > does not show up in tzsetup. > John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 00:46:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA24700 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from siesta.cs.wustl.edu (nw1@siesta.cs.wustl.edu [128.252.165.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA24695 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by siesta.cs.wustl.edu (SMI-8.6/ECL-J1.00) id CAA00607; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:46:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199701250846.CAA00607@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Nanbor Wang Subject: When "make world" current, xinstall... Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:45:59 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, As the answer of my last question was to use -current, I CVSup the -current today and updated my sources from 2.2-BETA directly to -current. Before doing a make world, I recompiled the kernel using the new source tree. But when I did the make world, it said MAP_FAILED was undeclared when working on the usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall.c Did I miss anything here? :-( Nanbor Wang From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 01:16:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA25680 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometeo.prometeo.it (prometeo.prometeo.it [194.21.36.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25669; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:16:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from tgioc.prometeo.it (tgioc.prometeo.it [194.21.36.34]) by prometeo.prometeo.it (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24920; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:24:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701250924.KAA24920@prometeo.prometeo.it> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Coi Giovanni" Organization: Prometeo srl To: freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:23:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: AHA SCSI DAT dump problem Reply-to: Coi_Giovanni@prometeo.it X-Confirm-Reading-To: Coi_Giovanni@prometeo.it X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) Sender: owner-hackers@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I have a SONY SDT-5200 3.26 tape backup (DAT) which I am trying to run. The SCSI controller is a AHA-1522A (ISA bus) when I try to write on tape (with dump for example) I get the following error messages on console: st0(aic0:5:0): ABORTED COMMAND info:4 asc:4b,0 Data phase error st0(aic0:5:0): HARDWARE FAILURE info:14 asc:44,0 Internal target failure st0(aic0:5:0): HARDWARE FAILURE info:14 asc:44,0 Internal target failure st0(aic0:5:0): HARDWARE FAILURE info:1 asc:44,0 Internal target failure the dump command is dump 0uBbf 2000000 10 /dev/rst0 /dev/wd0a but I try also with dump 0uBbf 2000000 10 /dev/rst0 / whit the same results and this is the output of dump on stderr: DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Jan 22 13:52:54 1997 DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch DUMP: Dumping /dev/rwd0a (/) to /dev/rst0 DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files] DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories] DUMP: estimated 15086 tape blocks on 0.01 tape(s). DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] ... error messages on console.... DUMP: End of tape detected DUMP: Closing /dev/rst0 DUMP: Change Volumes: Mount volume #2 DUMP: Is the new volume mounted and ready to go?: ("yes" or "no") I reply no DUMP: Do you want to abort?: ("yes" or "no") I reply yes DUMP: The ENTIRE dump is aborted. Note: a) after I run the dump command after signaling DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [reguler files] the system freeze. It do not respond at console, no on other telnet session, no on other vitrual console. After it finish (with error) all return to normal state. b) I have tryed the following command: tar cvf /dev/rst0 /etc and it goes. Then I can run also tar tvf /dev/rst0 and see the correct listing of etc's file. I think it was because there are few data in /etc. c) the _same_ DAT works fine when I connect it to a windows NT 4.0 box (but with a SCSI controller more quick, an PCI Adaptec AHA-2940 d) as you can see from the startup log (below) I have also a SCSI CDROM that work fine (I have copied with success a file of about 10Mbyte from it). Anyone has some suggestions? TIA. Follow my system configuration parameter: --------------------------------------------------------------- controller aic0 at isa? port 0x140 bio irq 10 vector aicintr controller scbus0 at aic0 # Single bus device disk sd0 at scbus0 target 4 unit 0 tape st0 at scbus0 target 5 unit 0 device cd0 at scbus0 target 3 unit 0 options SCSI_DELAY=30 options SCSIDEBUG --------------------------------------------------------------- Follow my startup log ----------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE #0: Wed Jan 22 15:56:04 MET 1997 CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 14835712 (14488K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA mono <4 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x340-0x35f irq 5 on isa ed0: address 00:00:1b:3a:c4:88, type NE2000 (16 bit) lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16450 sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16450 aic0 at 0x140-0x15f irq 12 on isa aic0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (aic0:3:0): "NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:501 2.2" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(aic0:3:0): CD-ROM cd present.[328201 x 2048 byte records] (aic0:4:0): "IBM MTA-3230TC2210!B 0" type 7 removable SCSI 2 uk0(aic0:4:0): Unknown (aic0:5:0): "SONY SDT-5200 3.26" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(aic0:5:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80008000 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 814MB (1667232 sectors), 1654 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): wd1: 515MB (1056384 sectors), 1048 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 765 fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in mcd0: type Mitsumi FX001D, version info: D 2 mcd0 at 0x320-0x323 irq 11 on isa npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ----------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- Prometeo srl - Progetti e Metodologie Informatiche Internet Services Provider Coi Giovanni Voice : +39 (041)5701366 Via Giudecca 15 Fax : +39 (041)5701005 30035 MIRANO (VE) - ITALY e-mail: coi@prometeo.it http://www.prometeo.it From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 02:08:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA27342 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from eva.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (eva.cs.uni-magdeburg.de [141.44.21.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27336 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pflaume.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (pflaume.cs.uni-magdeburg.de [141.44.21.44]) by eva.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA23233 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:08:10 +0100 (MET) Received: by pflaume.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA08825; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:08:09 +0100 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:08:09 +0100 From: jesse@eva.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE (Roland Jesse) Message-Id: <199701251008.LAA08825@pflaume.cs.uni-magdeburg.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: When "make world" current, xinstall... In-Reply-To: <199701250846.CAA00607@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> References: <199701250846.CAA00607@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> Reply-To: Roland Jesse X-Organization: University of Magdeburg X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 5D 08 5A E3 B4 AA 68 C1 FF 67 06 29 62 DD 9A D7 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nanbor Wang writes: > Before doing a make world, I recompiled the kernel using > the new source tree. Just as a general 'politic question': Is this the right way or wouldn't it be better to build everything but the kernel and build this one after all is finished? > But when I did the make world, it said > MAP_FAILED was undeclared when working on the usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall.c xinstall.c seems to like making problems. ;) When I am doing a 'make world' it complains about a missing member `tv_sec' in an utimbuf structure. /usr/src/include/utime.h defines only actime and modtime. Anyway, I am still thinking about it and when I come to a conclusion I will share it. :-) Sorry for not solving your problem, Nanbor. -- +------------- | Roland Jesse | http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~jesse/ | -----+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 03:04:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA28668 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA28663 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (ncr-us9-06.ix.netcom.com [204.31.236.198]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA15159; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:04:05 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) id DAA29770; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:04:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:04:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701251104.DAA29770@baloon.mimi.com> To: kneel@ishifishy.ishiboo.com CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199701250512.WAA28150@ishifishy.ishiboo.com> (message from Neal Fachan on Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:12:46 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Possible projects? From: asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I'm sure someone will send you Terry's todo list, but anyway) * So, are there any reasonable projects in the areas of VM or * file-systems that are not too high priority, but at the same * time are desirable, that I could possible work on? I would How about fixing LFS (seems like John Dyson is in Lite2-land now) adding parity support to ccd (:) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 04:07:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA00174 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [199.84.158.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00166 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA24133; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:08:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:08:33 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: David Dawes cc: hamby@aris.jpl.nasa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org, XFree86@xfree86.org Subject: Re: How to type French characters into Netscape? In-Reply-To: <199701250755.SAA06028@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, David Dawes wrote: > >(I'm CC'ing this question to FreeBSD-hackers as well as XFree86 because it > >seems to be more of a FreeBSD/Netscape related question now that I've > >figured out the XFree86 angle) Check out xkeykaps (in the packages directory on cdrom), you can configure your keyboard graphically to do exactly what you want, and yes it does work with Netscape. The only thing I've found that it won't work under is Nedit which is too bad. There is a patch available but you need the motif libs to rebuild it. Andrew Webster andrew@pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal Connected to the world Branche au monde P.O. Box 147 Cote Saint Luc, Quebec H4V 2Y3 tel 514.990.5911 http://www.pubnix.net fax 514.990.9443 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 04:07:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA00232 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip61-max1-fitch.ziplink.net [199.232.245.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA00224 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01609 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:03:02 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199701251203.HAA01609@hda.hda.com> Subject: Proofread compare-and-swap gcc-asm To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:03:02 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can someone who groks gcc-asm proofread this? It appears to work standalone, but I think I'm trashing the stack in the program. It should compile with "-DCAS_TEST". -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 /* cas: Compare-and-swap using the 486 and Pentium "cmpxchg" * instruction. * * Atomically change what "ptr" points to to "n" if it is "o" * and return success. */ #if defined(CAS_TEST) typedef int bool; typedef unsigned long castype; extern bool cas(volatile castype *, const castype, const castype); #else #include "mwcas.h" #endif bool cas(volatile castype *ptr, const castype o, const castype n) { volatile bool result = 0; __asm __volatile ( "cmpxchg %3,%1; jne 0f; movl $1,%0;0:" : "=m" (result) : "m" (*ptr), "a" (o), "r" (n) : "ax", "cc" ); return result; } #if defined(CAS_TEST) #include int main(int argc, char *av[]) { while (1) { volatile castype c; castype o, n; bool result; printf("c old new > "); if (scanf("%ld %ld %ld", &c, &o, &n) != 3) break; result = cas(&c, o, n); printf("%d; %ld %ld %ld\n", result, c, o, n); } return 0; } #endif /* CAS_TEST */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 04:15:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA00467 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from terminator.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (terminator.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.1.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00460 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from helbig.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (helbig.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.166.22]) by terminator.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09482; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:14:38 +0100 Received: (from helbig@localhost) by helbig.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA01964; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:15:15 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199701251215.NAA01964@helbig.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: When "make world" current, xinstall... To: nw1@cs.wustl.edu (Nanbor Wang) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:15:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701250846.CAA00607@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> from Nanbor Wang at "Jan 25, 97 02:45:59 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nanbor Wang reports > > As the answer of my last question was to use -current, I CVSup the > -current today and updated my sources from 2.2-BETA directly to > -current. Before doing a make world, I recompiled the kernel using > the new source tree. But when I did the make world, it said > MAP_FAILED was undeclared when working on the usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall.c > Did I miss anything here? :-( > The MAP_FAILED macro was added to /usr/src/sys/sys/mman.h on 12.12.1996 so you should have the correct version of mman.h. It is included by xinstall.c via . For this include to work make sure these two symbolic links are set: /sys -> /usr/src/sys /usr/include/sys -> /sys/sys Then everything should work fine! Wolfgang Wolfgang Helbig helbig@ba-stuttgart.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 08:04:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA06337 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA06329 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:04:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from comtat.kazan.su by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA25581 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:04:12 -0800 Received: (from mihi@localhost) by comtat.kazan.su (8.8.0/8.7.Ru) id TAA20478 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:03:59 +0300 (MSK) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:03:59 +0300 (MSK) From: "Michael's list account" Message-Id: <199701251603.TAA20478@comtat.kazan.su> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 08:22:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA06934 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA06929 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id RAA29169; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:21:28 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA08891; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:19:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:19:36 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, stumped by init References: <199701240353.TAA17933@schizo.cdsnet.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701240353.TAA17933@schizo.cdsnet.net>; from Jaye Mathisen on Jan 23, 1997 19:53:34 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jaye Mathisen wrote: > It fails when starting up init, with cannot allocate memory errors, and fsck > can't even get enough memory to check the root partition. > > Booting generic kernel works fine. Which options did you add or remove? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 08:51:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA08028 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08023 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id RAA00155; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:51:01 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA14371; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:29:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:29:33 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: setpwfile: Why was it removed? References: <199701240559.AAA06263@crh.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701240559.AAA06263@crh.cl.msu.edu>; from Charles Henrich on Jan 24, 1997 00:59:45 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Charles Henrich wrote: > It was such a handy feature! If you look into the CVS history and the HISTORY section, you will notice that it has never been a part of 4.4BSD. Btw., which file would you pass to it? There are 4 files to mention, pwd.db, spwd.db, master.passwd, and passwd. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 09:43:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09589 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [207.67.176.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09582; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA00327; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: hamby1.lightside.net: jehamby owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:42:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@hamby1 To: Amancio Hasty cc: multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Bt848 Video capture driver for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199701240751.XAA00908@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Hi, > > This is the first alpha release of the Bt848 video capture driver . Tested > with an Intel Smart Video Recorder III. If you are interested you can > get the distribution from ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub/bt848.tar.gz > > > Please don't hesitate to send me bug reports or comments. Hey, cool! I guess I better buy one of those cards, since I hear they're only about $150 now! For the record, somebody wrote a bt848 driver for BeOS, and there's a demo of the new 3DKit which allows you to drop live video and/or QuickTime movies onto the faces of a 3D object (cube, sphere, pulsing thing, book pages), and spin it around in realtime. It looks _real_ sweet playing about 6 QT movies simultaneously on a PowerMac 8500, all texture-mapped onto various 3D objects, but a live video feed is even cooler. Man, I'd love to have the source code to that! Anyway, I guess I need to buy two of those cards, one for my PC, and the other for the BeBox. :) -- Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 12:32:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16195 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16190 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA20427; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:32:19 -0700 (MST) From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199701252032.NAA20427@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:32:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701240824.TAA07251@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 24, 97 07:24:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Bruce Evans said: > > > I just spent some time fighting a kernel that died miserably > >on boot :-( I was inundated with an endless stream of kernel > >messages (in highlighted text) followed promptly by a hard reset. > >It was quite frustrating to find that there doesn't seem to be a > >mechanism to pause the display at this point! > > I use a serial console and `terminalprogram | tee foo' to capture > the output. Yes, but I would have had to have built the kernel with COMCONSOLE (which I didn't). > > OK, reboot from /kernel.old and look through the logs. Hmmm... > >nothing here! Probably the filesystem wasn't even functional when > >the boot ran into trouble. > > Boot messages are supposed to be preserved in the message buffer > across reboots. However, many PC BIOSes and/or memory systems do > something that invalidates the message buffer even for a soft reboot. Well, I wasn't observant enough to notice what type of restart the PC went through (two different varieties here -- one of which actually rampages through memory, etc.) but suspect this is the problem. However, is it worthwhile for the mechanism that printk() ?? uses to observe some kind of flow control? It did not recognize scroll_lock, pause, ^S, etc. This would have at least enabled me to read some (i.e. one screen full) of the messages to see what the kernel was complaining about. Thanks! --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 12:48:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16892 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA16886 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00669; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:30:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701252030.NAA00669@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? To: tom@sdf.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:30:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: garman@phs.k12.ar.us, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Jan 24, 97 10:32:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > L*nux has an option `hda=serialize' to do this. Is there any chance > > FreeBSD could have an CMD640B_SUCKS_ROCKS_SERIALIZE_REQUESTS option in the > > kernel config file? > > Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with > primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why > bother? So that FreeBSD will run on hardware as it comes from the manufacturer so that people who want to run FreeBSD can be pure computer users instead of a combination of computer user, petty cash drawer, and hardware hacker? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 13:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19684 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA19677; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA00739; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:33:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701252133.OAA00739@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: New Bt848 Video capture driver for FreeBSD To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:33:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jan 25, 97 09:42:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For the record, somebody wrote a bt848 driver for BeOS, and there's a demo > of the new 3DKit which allows you to drop live video and/or QuickTime > movies onto the faces of a 3D object (cube, sphere, pulsing thing, book > pages), and spin it around in realtime. It looks _real_ sweet playing > about 6 QT movies simultaneously on a PowerMac 8500, all texture-mapped > onto various 3D objects, but a live video feed is even cooler. Man, I'd > love to have the source code to that! I bet you $1 that they are only transferring data for the one, two, or three visible faces of the cube. You could easily render a projection matrix to do this: o Start with a cube showing one face (ie: the vector from your viewpoint through the center of the cube is perpendicular to the plane of the face). o Declare that you will only perform an x, y, or z rotation about the center of the cube body. o Determine the center of the cube face. o Pick one corner of the face. o Rotate the corner around the face to describe a circle. No matter how much you rotate the cube itself about its body center, you will not need to draw a pixel outside this circle, ever. o Divide the circle into pixels. o Consider the circle as the projection of a sphere into two dimensions. o You will move the corner of the cube along the visible surface of the sphere. Doing this will reveal a polygon for each of the visible sides. For instance, if you rotate the cube solely in the z-x plane from left-to-right, you will start with the full face, and then slowy move the left edge until it becomes the right edge (a 90 degree rotation) and you will end up with a different full face. o Now create a matrix of however many pixels are in the circle for each pixel in the circle. Each element in the matrix needs to have the values id, x, and y. o Fill in this matrix by moving the corner of the cube to every pixel in the circle. id is 1, 2, or 3; its the number of the face you see in that pixel on the circle for any given location of the corner. The cube face you start with is id 1. Put a zero in if there is no cube face under that pixel at that time (for instance, if you start with one face facing the viewer, there will be four crescents with id 0 in them). o Each of the faces will look like a four-sided polygon; this polygon is actually the projection of a square. o If you look at the cube face unrotated, you will have a square grid of pixels. For each polygon, you need to project the square into the polygon. The x,y location of the pixel you see for a given projection is the x,y location you store in the matrix for that "square". o Now you can "rotate" the cube. When the leading corner moves, you pick the matrix for its new location. Then you draw each pixel in the circle (if there is no cube there, there will be an id 0, and you should draw the background color) by going to the quicktime picture source for the id, and getting the pixel at the x,y location from the quicktime image. o What if you want to rotate the cube so the image goes upside down? For each 90 degrees you rotate the image, the image can be projected rotated. So you establish four matrices of a cube face each in size. For a 0 degree rotation, you pick the first, for a 90 degree, you pick the second, and so on. Now when you go to look up the image, you look up the image for the id, and then you look up the x,y pixel in the appropriate matrix. If it's 0 degrees rotated, it gives you the same x,y value to look up in the quicktime image... if not, though, you will get a rotated pixel. For instance, say my cube face is 100 pixels by 100 pixels. I want to look up pixel 1,1 from the quick time image 0 dgrees rotated: I get 1,1. I want to look up 90 degrees rotated, I get 100,1; I want 180 degrees, I get 100,100, and 270 dgrees, I get 1,100. o When the corner moves around "behind" the sphere, then a new corner will move into the visible cube. When that happens, you will need to reset the matrix, and pick a different set of quicktime sources for 1, 2, and 3. To do this, you need to have a matrix of 8 (one for each corner) by six (one for each face). o For more complex rotations, you will rotate the cube center as if it were attached to an axis with a fixed center by moving the cube center relative. This is topologically equivalent to rotating the cube about any point. You will need to make another matrix for perspective, since if you rotate about a point other than the body center, the average distance to the body center will get farther (the cube will "get smaller") or closer (the cube will "get larger"). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 13:58:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19910 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mule1.mindspring.com (mule1.mindspring.com [204.180.128.167]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19905 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by mule1.mindspring.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA20356 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:57:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970125215759.0084b5c4@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:57:59 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:30 PM 1/25/97 -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: >> > L*nux has an option `hda=serialize' to do this. Is there any chance >> > FreeBSD could have an CMD640B_SUCKS_ROCKS_SERIALIZE_REQUESTS option in the >> > kernel config file? >> >> Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with >> primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why >> bother? > >So that FreeBSD will run on hardware as it comes from the manufacturer >so that people who want to run FreeBSD can be pure computer users >instead of a combination of computer user, petty cash drawer, and >hardware hacker? Bingo. I get rather annoyed when trying to get another student to run FreeBSD, and he asks "will it run on my machine?". The last thing I need is to tell him "yes, if you buy hardware on this list.". The response is going to be something like "Well, it runs Linux just fine, so I'll stick with Linux.". CC line trimmed. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM House of Retrocomputing: - kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ - kevinneal@bix.com XCOMM "Rebooting with command:" -- SPARCstation 10 boot prom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 14:22:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20746 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20741 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA13971; Sat, 25 Jan 97 23:25:57 +0100 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 23:25:57 +0100 Message-Id: <9701252225.AA13971@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fdisk headache X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I try to add another disk, but it seems that something has changed since my last drive installation because fdisk doesnt want to write a correct information. My new drive is probed as: (ncr1:6:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM3200S 300N" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd4(ncr1:6:0): Direct-Access sd4(ncr1:6:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 3067MB (6281856 512 byte sectors) sd4(ncr1:6:0): with 6810 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 184 sectors/track (why 6810*5*184 != 6281856 ???) When I start fdisk it tells me that the drive has 19035cyl, 6heads, 55sec/trk. Wanting to change the values to 6810/5/184, I get The data for partition 3 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 1, size 6265199 (3059 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; end: cyl 666/ sector 55/ head 5 The last value is obviously wrong, but if try to change it to something more realistic, eg. 6810/5/183, fdisk interpret my values as 666/55/5 !!!!! The real problem is then when I want to label the disk: I get ioctl DIOCWLABEL: Operation not supported by device sd4s4: type 0xa5, start 1, end = 6265199, size 6265199 sd4s4: C/H/S end 666/5/55 (220109) != end 6265199: invalid sd4: cannot find label (no disk label) sd4s4: cannot find label (no disk label) Is there a solution? I don't care if the geometry is incorrect as long I can disklabel/newfs the drive and use the 3067 Mb!!! Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 14:43:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21413 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:43:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA21408 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.33] by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.59 #1) id 0vo94G-0002P4-00; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:26:52 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:26:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Terry Lambert cc: garman@phs.k12.ar.us, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? In-Reply-To: <199701252030.NAA00669@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > L*nux has an option `hda=serialize' to do this. Is there any chance > > > FreeBSD could have an CMD640B_SUCKS_ROCKS_SERIALIZE_REQUESTS option in the > > > kernel config file? > > > > Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with > > primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why > > bother? > > So that FreeBSD will run on hardware as it comes from the manufacturer > so that people who want to run FreeBSD can be pure computer users > instead of a combination of computer user, petty cash drawer, and > hardware hacker? You're dreaming. As long as hw manufactures make crap, computer usage will never be "pure". Even the Linux solution requires the user to diagnose the problem as hw, and add the "hda=serialize" option. > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 15:52:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23911 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23899 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA08160; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:51:03 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id AAA20086; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:33:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:33:02 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fdisk headache References: <9701252225.AA13971@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9701252225.AA13971@cabri.obs-besancon.fr>; from Jean-Marc Zucconi on Jan 25, 1997 23:25:57 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > I try to add another disk, but it seems that something has changed > since my last drive installation because fdisk doesnt want to write a > correct information. Why are you using fdisk at all? You are running Unix, you aren't running on a PC, you are not supposed to use fdisk (unless other systems on your disk force you to this step). :-) > My new drive is probed as: > (ncr1:6:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM3200S 300N" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd4(ncr1:6:0): Direct-Access > sd4(ncr1:6:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) > 3067MB (6281856 512 byte sectors) > sd4(ncr1:6:0): with 6810 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 184 > sectors/track > (why 6810*5*184 != 6281856 ???) So, if you don't understand it -- why do you boot with -v at all? We deliberately took this line out of the default messages: sd4(ncr1:6:0): with 6810 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 184 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...and this should be taken as a good indication that nobody claims the equation C*H*S = should assumed to be true. It's just the other way round: the SCSI drive can report about its number of heads, cylinders, and total number of blocks. Since it can't report about the number of sectors per track (and this number would barely make sense at all), the boot message calculates that average from the other three figures. > When I start fdisk it tells me that the drive has 19035cyl, 6heads, > 55sec/trk. Wanting to change the values to 6810/5/184, I get You can't. You are limited by the BIOS constraints in an fdisk table. The best you could do is changing it to 1024/x/y where x and y match the emulation your BIOS is using. > The data for partition 3 is: > sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) > start 1, size 6265199 (3059 Meg), flag 80 > beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; > end: cyl 666/ sector 55/ head 5 > The last value is obviously wrong, but if try to change it to > something more realistic, eg. 6810/5/183, fdisk interpret my values as > 666/55/5 !!!!! Because it will be (silently) masked by 0x3ff. > The real problem is then when I want to label the disk: I get > > ioctl DIOCWLABEL: Operation not supported by device > sd4s4: type 0xa5, start 1, end = 6265199, size 6265199 > sd4s4: C/H/S end 666/5/55 (220109) != end 6265199: invalid The slice code knows about various BIOS problems. It assumes a few bogus geometry values (including the 1024 cylinders one). However, the total number of sectors in the BSD slice must still match the `c' partition value -- 6265199. > Is there a solution? I don't care if the geometry is incorrect as long > I can disklabel/newfs the drive and use the 3067 Mb!!! The simplest solution (assuming you only want FreeBSD there) is: . wipe out your junked fdisk table: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd4 count=10 . give the entire disk to FreeBSD: disklabel -Brw sd4 auto . edit the partitions as you need: disklabel -e sd4 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 16:27:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27091 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27083 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA06186; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:24:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32EAA3C7.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:22:31 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joerg Wunsch CC: Jean-Marc Zucconi , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fdisk headache References: <9701252225.AA13971@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > > As Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > The simplest solution (assuming you only want FreeBSD there) is: > > . wipe out your junked fdisk table: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd4 count=10 > . give the entire disk to FreeBSD: disklabel -Brw sd4 auto > . edit the partitions as you need: disklabel -e sd4 I think it is bad form to do this.. I always put an fdisk partition table on the disk.. of course that depends on whether it's a bootable disk or not.. (or ever might need to be) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 16:34:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28958 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA28943 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14857; Sun, 26 Jan 97 01:37:07 +0100 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 01:37:07 +0100 Message-Id: <9701260037.AA14857@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: fdisk headache X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> J Wunsch writes: > As Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: >> I try to add another disk, but it seems that something has changed >> since my last drive installation because fdisk doesnt want to write a >> correct information. > Why are you using fdisk at all? You are running Unix, you aren't > running on a PC, you are not supposed to use fdisk (unless other > systems on your disk force you to this step). > :-) I thought that this step was mandatory :-) > . wipe out your junked fdisk table: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd4 count=10 > . give the entire disk to FreeBSD: disklabel -Brw sd4 auto > . edit the partitions as you need: disklabel -e sd4 Simple - easy - and it works! You can add a 4th point to your recipe: . rm /sbin/fdisk So I can gain 57344 bytes on my drive :-) Thanks, Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 16:44:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01847 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from jason.garman.net (pm106-13.dialip.mich.net [192.195.231.215]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01818 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1550 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Jan 1997 00:44:48 -0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:44:48 -0500 From: garman@jason.garman.net (Jason Garman) To: tom@sdf.com (Tom Samplonius) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: garman@phs.k12.ar.us X-Phase-Of-Moon: The Moon is Waning Gibbous (96% of Full) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 2.1.5-RELEASE In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Samplonius on Jan 24, 1997 10:32:51 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tom Samplonius writes: > Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with > primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why > bother? > A few reasons: 1. I'd rather not waste a slot on a card I don't need. I hardly have enough free as it is. 2. I'd rather not waste $50 on something that's already on my motherboard. I realize that this is a hardware flaw, but the computer manufacturer is completely unresponsive to any requests (besides this machine is not under warranty any more anyhow. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to deal with the manufacturer, I'd love to hear those too) Their stock response is to have the OS `vendor' fix the `problem' in their software. Sigh. Btw- an interesting side note... the `checkide' program that intel is peddling to check the problem freezes my machine. Heh. Sad part is that Intel refuses to even fix their program because my motherboard isn't an Intel one. Geeze, I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place here... I would be _more_ than happy to work with someone on possible solutions and beta-test kernel patches. Enjoy, -- Jason Garman http://www.nesc.k12.ar.us/~garman/ Student, Eleanor Roosevelt High School garman@phs.k12.ar.us From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 17:06:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05450 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05435 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11494; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:42:21 GMT Message-Id: <199701251842.SAA11494@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ari.suutari@ps.carel.fi, cmott@srv.net Subject: Re: ipdivert & masqd In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:59:50 PST." <199701240759.XAA01349@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:42:20 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [stuff about ping turnarounds not being diverted deleted] > > Brian, > Can I take it from you recent email to the hackers list that > you solved the problem? > > -Archie Nope - as Ari Suutari wrote to me and said: Hi, About two sockets - you might also need them. My first version used also only one socket, but there were some cases where kernel packet filtering loop avoidance code was confused when incoming and outgoing packets were put into same socket. The result was that some packets were not diverted which in turn resulted in connection failures. With separate sockets for incoming and outgoing packets everything works fine. The idea in natd is that user makes modifications in /etc/rc.firewall to set it up. The test script is only for testing - you are not expected to use it for anything else. (perhaps I should mention this in README file). Both these main programs are very much alike for obvious reasons: all the brains is in the code written by Charles. Ari S. On investigation, he's correct. Tcp & udp return setup packets coming into the machine with masqd running seem to disappear - masqd sees them, but when it injects them back into the divert socket they disappear (the app never sees them). This shows itself when you try to initiate a tcp/udp connection through the divert sockets from the machine running masqd.... a timeout occurs. However, machines that are having packets forwarded through the masqd machine are fine. I'll have a look at the divert code and see if I can come up with anything interresting. running masqd are -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 17:20:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06422 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06416 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:20:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA10542 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:20:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id CAA25685; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:06:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:06:22 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fdisk headache References: <9701252225.AA13971@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> <32EAA3C7.41C67EA6@whistle.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <32EAA3C7.41C67EA6@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Jan 25, 1997 16:22:31 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > I think it is bad form to do this.. Mmmaybe. > I always put an fdisk partition table on the disk.. Believe it or not -- even the version i've been posting writes a dummy fdisk table. > of course that depends on whether it's a bootable disk or not.. > (or ever might need to be) ...and this one is totally irrelevant from the fdisk table. The -B option to disklabel is responsible for this. The BSD label becomes the master boot record -- that's why the valid fdisk table is not needed. Of course, there's one thing that won't work with this method: nextboot. OTOH, the people who require nextboot and those who use ``dangerously dedicated'' mode are mostly mutually exclusive. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 17:30:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA07427 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (root@[199.165.180.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07419 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (mcgovern@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA00264 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:23:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701260123.UAA00264@spoon.beta.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Overdrive question... Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:23:20 -0500 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I tried dropping an Evergreen Overdrive processor in to my 486/33 tonight. Although the system booted, and started ok, programs starting crashing because the symbol "___sF" is not defined (or a similar error). Can anyone give me the rundown on this, and if there is any way to get it working so I can run the overdrive chip? I just hate to send it back - it seems like such a neat toy to keep an aging system running. -Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 18:23:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA09993 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:23:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09988 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA14109; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:22:53 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199701260222.VAA14109@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: CMD640b ide controller bug workarounds? To: garman@phs.k12.ar.us Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:22:53 -0500 (EST) Cc: tom@sdf.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jason Garman" at Jan 25, 97 07:44:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Tom Samplonius writes: > > Considering that a perfectly good, brand new EIDE controller with > > primary and secondary, and dual 16550 UARTs, and printer for $50, why > > bother? > > > A few reasons: > > 1. I'd rather not waste a slot on a card I don't need. I hardly have > enough free as it is. > 2. I'd rather not waste $50 on something that's already on my > motherboard. > > I realize that this is a hardware flaw, but the computer manufacturer is > completely unresponsive to any requests (besides this machine is not > under warranty any more anyhow. If anyone has any suggestions as to how > to deal with the manufacturer, I'd love to hear those too) > I can 'fix' the problem but am overloaded with work this weekend. We haven't encountered this problem very often, and any solution to the problem is a bit of a 'wart.' If you are willing to wait for approx 1-2wks, I might be able to hack the wd driver. (In fact, it might be a good kernel initiation project for YOU :-)). John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 18:45:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11061 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk ([193.122.171.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11051 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:45:11 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id CAA09496; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:43:50 GMT Received: from "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/" by net-tel.co.uk (Route400-RFCGate); Sun, 26 Jan 97 2:40:15 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Sun, 26 Jan 97 2:40:15 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Sun, 26 Jan 97 2:40:12 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Sun, 26 Jan 97 2:40:12 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:24536-970126024012-5458] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 2:40:12 +0000 X400-Content-Identifier: Re: Overdrive qu Message-Id: <"6af-970126023959-804F*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701260123.UAA00264@spoon.beta.com> Subject: Re: Overdrive question... Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I tried dropping an Evergreen Overdrive processor in to my 486/33 tonight. > Although the system booted, and started ok, programs starting crashing > because the symbol "___sF" is not defined (or a similar error). > > Can anyone give me the rundown on this, and if there is any way to get it > working so I can run the overdrive chip? I just hate to send it back - it > seems like such a neat toy to keep an aging system running. I have two systems with these Evergreen upgrades in them, so there is definitely no fundamental problem with running FreeBSD on them. One of the systems was previously a 486/66, and the upgrade works fine at the 4x clock setting. It also works whether configured for writeback or writethrough - even though this machine has an AHA2842 VLB SCSI controller, which I would have expected to be upset by write-back. However, the WB/WT setting doesn't seem to make any difference to performance either, so maybe somthing on the motherboard is disabling it. The other machine works fine when configured for 3x clock, but won't even boot when configured for 4x - I suspect some BIOS problem. Have you tried changing the 3x/4x link on your one? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 19:34:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13579 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13534; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.eng.umd.edu (ginger.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.20]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA20971; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by ginger.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12647; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:34:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: ginger.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@ginger.eng.umd.edu To: Mark Mayo cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DDD 2.0 port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: > > Hi, I was wondering if anyone has ported DDD 2.0 to FreeBSD (2.2-x). Also, > what's the general consensus on DDD?? It looks excellent from the web page > (http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/softech/ddd/)... Is there are better GUI debugger > out there for FreeBSD? DDD certainly seems way more sophisticated than > xxgdb! > > TIA, > -Mark > > P.S. I'd compile it myself, but I don't have Motif. Maybe I'll grab the > latest "LessTif" and see if it works... I put a statically compiled version in ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ddd-2.0-static.tar.gz. > > --------------------------------------------------- > | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | > | RingZero Comp. vinyl.quickweb.com/mark | > --------------------------------------------------- > "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." > - L. Peter Deutsch > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 20:16:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15134 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15129 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.3/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA20488; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 04:15:57 GMT Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:15:56 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock Reply-To: Michael Hancock To: Bruce Evans cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern kern_lockf.c In-Reply-To: <199612191322.FAA21783@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > bde 96/12/19 05:22:31 > > Modified: sys/kern kern_lockf.c > Log: > Fixed arg checking in if_advlock(). Invalid args were accepted in an > optimized case. Preposterous lengths weren't checked for. > > Found by: NIST-PCTS > > Revision Changes Path > 1.7 +14 -11 src/sys/kern/kern_lockf.c > All of the argument checking seems out of place here. The call trace is like this: fcntl => VOP_ADVLOCK => lf_advlock or open => VOP_ADVLOCK => lf_advlock Garbage input should be stopped at the source and lf_advlock should be completely free from arg checking. The original coder wanted to factor error checking into lf_advlock, but it seems incorrect to allow garbage to come in so far. A consistent division of arg checking responsibilities would make it easier for people to decide where to do the checks. We would need some comments or preconditions specified in lf_advlock to communicate what was expected so that we would know what to do in fcntl and open. Any comments? Regards, Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 20:22:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15337 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from almond.elite.net (root@almond.elite.net [205.199.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15332 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jpm@localhost) by almond.elite.net (8.8.3/ELITE) id UAA15008 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:22:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Moldenhauer Message-Id: <199701260422.UAA15008@almond.elite.net> Subject: Intel EtherExpress Pro 10B PCI To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:22:58 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A superior of mine bought an Intel EtherExpress Pro 10B PCI card hoping that FreeBSD would support it. After much twisting of the arm, I had pretty much given up, especially after seeing the various discussions about the Pro 10B and Pro 100B cards in the newsgroups and mailing-lists. Up till now, I hadn't seen anyone say they had gotten the 10B card to work. Well, I did get it to work. Basically, the 10B uses the same chip as the 100B (the i82557) and so the fxp driver recognizes the card when FreeBSD boots. Unfortunately, the fxp driver assumes the card is a 100B card which may not always be the case. To remedy this, I hacked up the fxp driver so it is possible to use the link0 and link1 flags to ifconfig to tell the driver how to configure the card. For users of the 100B card, nothing changes. For users of the 10B card, you add 'link0 link1' to the ifconfig line for the card. The reason for two flags is this: link0 controls whether the card is set up in nibble-wide (100Mbit) or bit-wide (10Mbit) mode, and link1 controls whether the card is willing to do full-duplex or will refuse to do full-duplex. Again, the default settings of ifconfig are to work the way the driver did before so you have to explicitly give the link0 flag to put the card into bit-wide mode and explicitly give the link1 flag to tell the card to refuse full-duplex mode. Anyway, thats probably more than anyone wants to know and there must be a better way to tell the driver whether the card is a 10B or 100B but since I don't have a 100B card I couldn't figure out a reliable way (ethernet addresses might work, but I would need to see some 100B ethernet addresses to be sure). The patch below is against the -current version of if_fxp.c but my original patch was against 2.1.5 sources and I haven't had an opportunity to test the -current version. Additionally, I only had the measly documentation on the 82557 from Intel's web site to work from and so I may have made some really bad assumptions (like, that other than the two bits I flip all other parameters stay the same) which might cause your network to destroy data, blow up, or generally cease functioning. Hope this helps those who need it. Jonathon Elite.Net System Administrator *** /usr/sup/src/sys/pci/if_fxp.c Tue Jan 14 03:56:47 1997 --- if_fxp.c Sat Jan 25 13:57:15 1997 *************** *** 28,34 **** */ /* ! * Intel EtherExpress Pro/100B PCI Fast Ethernet driver */ #include "bpfilter.h" --- 28,34 ---- */ /* ! * Intel EtherExpress Pro/100B or Pro/10B PCI Ethernet driver */ #include "bpfilter.h" *************** *** 208,214 **** { if (((device_id & 0xffff) == FXP_VENDORID_INTEL) && ((device_id >> 16) & 0xffff) == FXP_DEVICEID_i82557) ! return ("Intel EtherExpress Pro/100B Fast Ethernet"); return NULL; } --- 208,214 ---- { if (((device_id & 0xffff) == FXP_VENDORID_INTEL) && ((device_id >> 16) & 0xffff) == FXP_DEVICEID_i82557) ! return ("Intel EtherExpress Pro 10B/100B Ethernet"); return NULL; } *************** *** 802,808 **** struct fxp_cb_ias *cb_ias; struct fxp_cb_tx *txp; struct fxp_csr *csr = sc->csr; ! int i, s, mcast, prm; s = splimp(); /* --- 802,808 ---- struct fxp_cb_ias *cb_ias; struct fxp_cb_tx *txp; struct fxp_csr *csr = sc->csr; ! int i, s, mcast, prm, link0, link1; s = splimp(); /* *************** *** 820,825 **** --- 820,836 ---- mcast = (ifp->if_flags & (IFF_MULTICAST|IFF_ALLMULTI)) ? 1 : 0; /* + * link0 is used to indicate if the card is a 100MB card (not + * set) or if the card is a 10MB card (set). + * + * link1 is used to indicate if the card should indicate it + * can do full duplex communications (not set) or if the card + * should refuse to do full duplex communications (set). + */ + link0 = ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0; + link1 = ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK1; + + /* * Initialize base of CBL and RFA memory. Loading with zero * sets it up for regular linear addressing. */ *************** *** 866,872 **** cbp->save_bf = prm; /* save bad frames */ cbp->disc_short_rx = !prm; /* discard short packets */ cbp->underrun_retry = 1; /* retry mode (1) on DMA underrun */ ! cbp->mediatype = 1; /* (MII) interface mode */ cbp->nsai = 1; /* (don't) disable source addr insert */ cbp->preamble_length = 2; /* (7 byte) preamble */ cbp->loopback = 0; /* (don't) loopback */ --- 877,883 ---- cbp->save_bf = prm; /* save bad frames */ cbp->disc_short_rx = !prm; /* discard short packets */ cbp->underrun_retry = 1; /* retry mode (1) on DMA underrun */ ! cbp->mediatype = !link0; /* (MII or PHV) interface mode */ cbp->nsai = 1; /* (don't) disable source addr insert */ cbp->preamble_length = 2; /* (7 byte) preamble */ cbp->loopback = 0; /* (don't) loopback */ *************** *** 880,886 **** cbp->padding = 1; /* (do) pad short tx packets */ cbp->rcv_crc_xfer = 0; /* (don't) xfer CRC to host */ cbp->force_fdx = 0; /* (don't) force full duplex */ ! cbp->fdx_pin_en = 1; /* (enable) FDX# pin */ cbp->multi_ia = 0; /* (don't) accept multiple IAs */ cbp->mc_all = mcast; /* accept all multicasts */ --- 891,897 ---- cbp->padding = 1; /* (do) pad short tx packets */ cbp->rcv_crc_xfer = 0; /* (don't) xfer CRC to host */ cbp->force_fdx = 0; /* (don't) force full duplex */ ! cbp->fdx_pin_en = !link1; /* (enable or disable) FDX# pin */ cbp->multi_ia = 0; /* (don't) accept multiple IAs */ cbp->mc_all = mcast; /* accept all multicasts */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 20:23:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA15364 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15357 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:23:44 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17188 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10097 invoked by uid 110); 26 Jan 1997 04:23:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19970126042316.10096.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: SLAB stuff, and applications to current net code (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:23:16 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx Sun Jan 26 04:12:46 1997 > Delivered-To: proff@suburbia.net > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:47:23 -0500 > Message-Id: <199701260347.WAA07788@jenolan.caipgeneral> > From: "David S. Miller" > To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx > Subject: SLAB stuff, and applications to current net code > Sender: owner-netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: netdev@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx, > "David S. Miller" > > I'm going to try feveriously to get the SLAB allocator integrated into > Linus's sources over the next two days. For the most part my > incentive is so that people think about it when they design memory > object allocation subsystems. > > For example, even right now, look at the way struct sock's are indeed > allocated. Alan's recent change to add sock_init_data() and the fact > that my sources already use SLAB for struct sock sparked this idea. > > We could in this case just make sock_init_data() the constructor > routine for the sock SLAB. So for a warm SLAB cache this code never > gets run as long as users of sock's are not forgetful and leave a sock > in a reasonable state when they free them. (ie. don't leave crap on > the receive queue etc.) > Can anyone inform me what a SLAB allocator is, and if so, would freebsd benefit from one? Cheers, Julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 21:03:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA16554 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16549 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17719 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10536 invoked by uid 110); 26 Jan 1997 05:02:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19970126050252.10535.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD-SNAP-970118 In-Reply-To: from "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" at "Jan 25, 97 09:41:50 pm" To: jmcla@ocala.cs.miami.edu (Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:02:52 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have noticed that the adduser command under this SNAP does not > correctly add users to /etc/group. I have to manually edit this file to > get users to correspond to their respective groups. Is there a bug in > adduser, or something new that has to be done to add the users? > > Thnaks, > Joe > > You may wish to investigate man pw ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 21:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA17317 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17295 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA20137; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:20:03 -0500 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:20 EST Received: from lakes.water.net (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.water.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27861 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.water.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) id UAA15694 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:33:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199701260133.UAA15694@lakes.water.net> To: ponds!freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: 3.0-970124-SNAP on ftp.freebsd.org Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You all know the drill by now, I'm sure. > > This SNAP fixes the broken NFS, tape and floppy installation methods > (don't ask) of the previous SNAPshot as well as Justin's latest SCSI > changes. Is there a 2.2 boot/fixit with Justin's SCSI changes (I'm assuming there the ones 2.2 is waiting on.) I'd be willing to test my AHA 2940 problems with them before 2.2 goes production. Or, would it be as meaningful to run my test on the 3.0 snap? - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 22:39:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19797 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:39:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19792 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dolphin.inna.net (jamie@dolphin.inna.net [206.151.66.2]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13980; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 01:52:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 01:40:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: proff@suburbia.net cc: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD-SNAP-970118 In-Reply-To: <19970126050252.10535.qmail@suburbia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would rather it didn't add users to /etc/group. As long as the group is defined, and they have a valid group # in the passwd file, an entry in /etc/group is unnecessary. On Sun, 26 Jan 1997 proff@suburbia.net wrote: > > I have noticed that the adduser command under this SNAP does not > > correctly add users to /etc/group. I have to manually edit this file to > > get users to correspond to their respective groups. Is there a bug in > > adduser, or something new that has to be done to add the users? > > > > Thnaks, > > Joe > > > > > > > You may wish to investigate man pw ;) > Jamie Bowden Network Administrator, TBI Ltd. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 22:40:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19876 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19870 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA03458; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:40:05 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:40:05 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: setpwfile: Why was it removed? References: <199701240559.AAA06263@crh.cl.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 25, 1997 17:29:33 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As Charles Henrich wrote: > > It was such a handy feature! > > If you look into the CVS history and the HISTORY section, you will > notice that it has never been a part of 4.4BSD. Yes, more's the pity. :-) I could have used this a couple of times, mainly with virtual mail accounts. Instead I had to duplicate the functionality, and write a wrapper that called the appropriate set of functions or the "virtual" equivalent. > Btw., which file would you pass to it? There are 4 files to mention, > pwd.db, spwd.db, master.passwd, and passwd. Correct behaviour when using this function should *disable* using the database versions as well as YP. Perhaps a setpwdir(3) would have been better, though. Then all but YP could be retained. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 22:55:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20328 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20321 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:55:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id RAA20345; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:49:48 +1100 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:49:48 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701260649.RAA20345@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, dgy@rtd.com Subject: Re: suggestion for kernel printk() ? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I use a serial console and `terminalprogram | tee foo' to capture >> the output. > >Yes, but I would have had to have built the kernel with COMCONSOLE >(which I didn't). COMCONSOLE hasn't been necessary for 2 years in -current (just boot with -h) but is still necessary in -stable. Sigh. >However, is it worthwhile for the mechanism that printk() ?? uses to >observe some kind of flow control? It did not recognize scroll_lock, >pause, ^S, etc. This would have at least enabled me to read some >(i.e. one screen full) of the messages to see what the kernel was >complaining about. Scroll lock and scrollback don't work until interrupts are enabled after probing all the devices. printf() doesn't have any flow control. It can't afford to pause once the system is up because that would freeze the whole system. Freezing for 1 msec per character to for output at 9600 bps is bad enough. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 23:11:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21539 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21534 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id SAA20817; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:06:48 +1100 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:06:48 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701260706.SAA20817@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: fdisk headache Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I think it is bad form to do this.. > >Mmmaybe. >Of course, there's one thing that won't work with this method: >nextboot. OTOH, the people who require nextboot and those who use >``dangerously dedicated'' mode are mostly mutually exclusive. Boot selectors won't work either. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 25 23:33:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA23329 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:33:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA23320; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:32:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:32:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199701260732.XAA23320@freefall.freebsd.org> To: kneel@ishiboo.com Subject: Re: Possible projects? Cc: hackers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You could try converting the kernel memory allocator to a slab allocator. See the Unix Frontiers books for more details and ideas for other projects.