From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 02:04:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA12024 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12015 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA01886; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:34:13 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199707130904.SAA01886@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Use Netware Emulator support RPL.NLM ? In-Reply-To: <199707130426.VAA04579@hub.freebsd.org> from Muhammad Isnaini at "Jul 13, 97 11:29:03 am" To: internet@cybergal.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:34:12 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Muhammad Isnaini stands accused of saying: > Is there program for Netware emulator that support Like RPL.NLM Last time I looked, there was no Netware emulator. What's "RPL.NLM" anyway? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 02:35:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA12825 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12817 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id FAA27732; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id FAA11595; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:35:26 -0400 (EDT) To: Michael Smith cc: internet@cybergal.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Use Netware Emulator support RPL.NLM ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:34:12 +0930." <199707130904.SAA01886@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:35:26 -0400 Message-ID: <11593.868786526@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote in message ID <199707130904.SAA01886@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: > Muhammad Isnaini stands accused of saying: > > Is there program for Netware emulator that support Like RPL.NLM > > Last time I looked, there was no Netware emulator. What's "RPL.NLM" > anyway? NLM == Netware Loadable Module. No idea what RPL.NLM is in particular, it's 2 years since I last worked on a Netware box, and I don't regret not using one anymore either :) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 09:41:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27215 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sby.centrin.net.id (mta@sby.centrin.net.id [202.146.252.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27203 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707131641.JAA27203@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from pentium-166 ([202.146.252.253]) by sby.centrin.net.id (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA28217 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:48:37 +0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Muhammad Isnaini" To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:44:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Use Netware Emulator support RPL.NLM ? Reply-to: internet@cybergal.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I mean program that support BOOTROM under Linux/FreeBSD like RPL.NLM under Netware box. > Michael Smith wrote in message ID > <199707130904.SAA01886@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>: > > Muhammad Isnaini stands accused of saying: > > > Is there program for Netware emulator that support Like RPL.NLM > > > > Last time I looked, there was no Netware emulator. What's "RPL.NLM" > > anyway? > > NLM == Netware Loadable Module. No idea what RPL.NLM is in particular, > it's 2 years since I last worked on a Netware box, and I don't regret > not using one anymore either :) _______________________________________ Muhammad Isnaini. Personal Office _______________________________________ Medical Management, Networking, Database. Windows NT, Novell Netware, OS2. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 15:39:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11066 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.43.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA11052 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (jwm@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28695; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: FreeBSD-hardware@freebsd.org cc: root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: AMD K6 Reply-to: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:12 -0700 From: John Milford Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? --John From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 17:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14055 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14050 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00716; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707140001.RAA00716@implode.root.com> To: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:12 PDT." <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:01:23 -0700 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a >FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. >(actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages >just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen >the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support >UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. >I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? In tests here with a K6/166, I've been having some reliability problems that I've isolated to the CPU. The main symptom is that "make world" will stop with a random error. When I first got the hardware, everything worked fine - I did at least 10 "make world"s without any trouble, but then things started getting flakey. I've heard similar reports from two other people, so this appears to not be an isolated problem. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 17:02:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14189 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14183 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10023; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: John Milford cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, John Milford wrote: > > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? > > > > --John > The K6 works fine with FreeBSD... Check the jumper settings on the motherboard. Make sure the VRM on the motherboard has adequate cooling. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 17:05:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14385 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic1.pm02.sf1.best.com [206.184.197.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14378 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) id RAA03220; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199707140005.RAA03220@superior.mooseriver.com> Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> from John Milford at "Jul 13, 97 03:39:12 pm" To: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Milford said: > > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a >FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. >(actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages >just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen >the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support >UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. >I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? > > I have been told by reliable sources that the K6 has problems. My source tried 5 times to keep a K6 running but has given up on them. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 17:39:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16448 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16433 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA16188; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:38:17 -0700 (PDT) To: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:39:12 PDT." <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:38:15 -0700 Message-ID: <16138.868840695@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are basically the same in each case, signal 11s all over the place and make world failures. What's weirder is that it will often work just fine for days or weeks, the initial make world tests going fine, and then it will just stop, no make world making it through from that point on. I'd never seen a CPU fail due to heat death, but it sure seems like the only explanation here. What's more worrisome is that the other 4 testers had exactly the same thing happen. Anyway, FreeBSD, Inc. now owns an expensive piece of chip jewelry from AMD since our 30 day return period also elapsed during testing. :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 17:46:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16953 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp0.lariat.org@[129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16947 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anonymous ([129.72.251.10] (may be forged)) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA20933; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970713184451.008798b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:44:51 -0600 To: dg@root.com, jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: AMD K6 Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: <882564D4.0002438D.00@IWNS2.infoworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:01 PM 7/13/97 -0700, dg@root.com wrote: > In tests here with a K6/166, I've been having some reliability problems >that I've isolated to the CPU. The main symptom is that "make world" will >stop with a random error. Have you tried the obvious controlled experiment: putting a Pentium into the same motherboard? --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 18:50:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA20465 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20450 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA18754 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:50:32 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id DAA20504 for FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:49:59 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.6/keltia-uucp-2.9) id DAA01221; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970714030229.11506@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:02:29 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 References: <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> <199707140005.RAA03220@superior.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <199707140005.RAA03220@superior.mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Sun, Jul 13, 1997 at 05:05:27PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3461 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Josef Grosch: > I have been told by reliable sources that the K6 has problems. My source > tried 5 times to keep a K6 running but has given up on them. Mine has been working for two months without interruption and survived multiple make world. It is a K6-166 pushed at 208 MHz (2.5x 83 MHz). One sink/fan on the CPU and a second fan above. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #22: Sun Jul 13 22:07:09 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 18:58:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21030 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inet03.citec.qld.gov.au (firewall-user@inet03.citec.qld.gov.au [203.5.10.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA21022 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by inet03.citec.qld.gov.au; id LAA06014; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:57:58 +1000 Received: from citecuf.citec.qld.gov.au(147.132.176.10) by inet03.citec.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma005933; Mon, 14 Jul 97 11:57:30 +1000 Received: from bne16unx215.workcover.qld.gov.au (netfl15a.workcover.qld.gov.au [167.123.24.12]) by citecuf.citec.qld.gov.au (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA29110; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:57:27 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost by bne16unx215.workcover.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id BAA26643; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:57:46 GMT Message-Id: <199707140157.BAA26643@bne16unx215.workcover.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:38:15 MST." <16138.868840695@time.cdrom.com> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:57:45 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eeek! I've just ordered one of these - hopefully the onchip fan + the huge 6" fan I have blowing over the motherboard will prevent any heat related problems. Maybe if I run it at 166Mhz, instead of 200. Stephen > We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any > of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are [.......] -- The views expressed above are not those of WorkCover Queensland, Australia. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 19:02:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21242 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21237 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14348; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:03:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <16138.868840695@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > > FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > > (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > > just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > > the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > > UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > > I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? > > We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any > of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are > basically the same in each case, signal 11s all over the place and > make world failures. What's weirder is that it will often work just > fine for days or weeks, the initial make world tests going fine, and > then it will just stop, no make world making it through from that > point on. I'd never seen a CPU fail due to heat death, but it sure > seems like the only explanation here. What's more worrisome is that > the other 4 testers had exactly the same thing happen. > > Anyway, FreeBSD, Inc. now owns an expensive piece of chip jewelry from > AMD since our 30 day return period also elapsed during testing. :( > Hmmm... that's odd, I have not seen that problem here. Knock on wood. But then we use heatsink grease as recommended by AMD. Motherboards tested to work fine: FreeTech F63T, F76, F79* PC Chips M537A, M537B* * = with switching VRM Are you guys using it on a Dual Voltage motherboard? at 2.9V Core and 3.3V I/O? With the current that it draws, a switching voltage regulator is highly recommended. Motherboards that use a standard linear voltage regulator motherboard can overheat and blow the voltage regulator and damage the motherboard and/or cpu. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 19:24:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22478 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22460 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA06749; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:54:31 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199707140224.LAA06749@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Use Netware Emulator support RPL.NLM ? In-Reply-To: <199707131641.JAA27203@hub.freebsd.org> from Muhammad Isnaini at "Jul 13, 97 11:44:05 pm" To: internet@cybergal.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:54:31 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Muhammad Isnaini stands accused of saying: > I mean program that support BOOTROM under Linux/FreeBSD like RPL.NLM > under Netware box. Ok, and what do you want to netboot on your workstations? DOS? FreeBSD? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 22:14:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29714 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29709 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02950; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707140514.WAA02950@implode.root.com> To: Howard Lew cc: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:03:54 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:52 -0700 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hmmm... that's odd, I have not seen that problem here. Knock on wood. >But then we use heatsink grease as recommended by AMD. > >Motherboards tested to work fine: > >FreeTech F63T, F76, F79* >PC Chips M537A, M537B* > >* = with switching VRM > >Are you guys using it on a Dual Voltage motherboard? at 2.9V Core and >3.3V I/O? > >With the current that it draws, a switching voltage regulator is highly >recommended. Motherboards that use a standard linear voltage regulator >motherboard can overheat and blow the voltage regulator and damage the >motherboard and/or cpu. Yes to all of the above (correct split voltage, switching regulator). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 23:28:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03011 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03005 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA18823; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:28:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: John Milford cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707132239.PAA28695@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, John Milford wrote: > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? Hmm... I've run a both a K6 166 and 200 and never had a problem. Running rather strenuous tests (including a couple of make worlds) neither ever crashed a single time during weeks of uptime. I don't currently have one on the network at the house, here, but several are running on other locations which I somewhat oversee. Nobody has reported a problem back up to me yet. I would tend to check for adequate cooling (although I remember being impressed with how cool the 166 chip ran as opposed to the Cyrix (non L version) in the machine I'm on right now.), and especially the voltages. I honestly can't tell you what I ran them at, as I don't have either machine here. I do believe, that in the ASUS TX board (a TX97-E) with the 166, I was runing it at the higher of the two voltages closest to AMD's spec. The board didn't have the EXACT voltage that AMD specified, and it RAN with either the next lower, or the next higher, and I'm quite sure I was running it at the higher. It is at least worth looking into. I'm likely going to be swapping a K6 into my little rotation here at the house very soon, and I have yet to have any problems, although I currently do not use one in any of my main machines here. I've actually always had good luck with AMD chips. Hobbes (a 5x86-133 running at 150 Mhz) is up to 120 days uptime. :) Later...... From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 23:31:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03180 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03175 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA18841; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Brett Glass cc: dg@root.com, jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970713184451.008798b0@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Brett Glass wrote: > Have you tried the obvious controlled experiment: putting a Pentium into > the same motherboard? The problem is that there are still too many variables. The K6 and a plain Pentium use different voltages, etc. My best guess would be to try running the thing at a different voltage. Several people have said they had to up the voltage a little to overclock the chip. We might try bumping the voltage by .1 or .2 volts and see what happens. Checking cooling never hurts, either. Later...... From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jul 13 23:35:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA03467 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03456 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA18853; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:35:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Ollivier Robert cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <19970714030229.11506@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Josef Grosch: > Mine has been working for two months without interruption and survived > multiple make world. It is a K6-166 pushed at 208 MHz (2.5x 83 MHz). One > sink/fan on the CPU and a second fan above. Just out of curiousity, what voltages are you running it on? (And in what board?) Supposedly the K6 is QUITE power hungry. Perhaps we are seeing the regulator going funny in some of these cases. Has anyone measured the voltage at the chip with the thing running? I wonder if the voltage is dipping a little under load once in a while on some boards just because the regulator setup can't dish the current. It could explain why some need to up the voltage to make things work correctly (especially when overclocking, which would draw more power anyway....) Later...... From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 02:24:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA10356 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA10350 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04924; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707140924.CAA04924@implode.root.com> To: Doug Russell cc: Brett Glass , jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:36 MDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:24:34 -0700 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Brett Glass wrote: > >> Have you tried the obvious controlled experiment: putting a Pentium into >> the same motherboard? > >The problem is that there are still too many variables. The K6 and a >plain Pentium use different voltages, etc. My best guess would be to try >running the thing at a different voltage. Several people have said they >had to up the voltage a little to overclock the chip. We might try >bumping the voltage by .1 or .2 volts and see what happens. Checking >cooling never hurts, either. Did that, no difference. I also changed the motherboard to a different kind...no difference. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 03:38:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA12836 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12831 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA19754 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:37:58 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id MAA28050 for FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:37:42 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.6/keltia-uucp-2.9) id MAA01241; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:17:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970714121713.59350@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:17:13 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 References: <19970714030229.11506@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Russell on Mon, Jul 14, 1997 at 12:35:14AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3461 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Doug Russell: > Just out of curiousity, what voltages are you running it on? 3.2V. > (And in what board?) ASUS T2P4 rev. 3.1. I had to remove the jumper on JP20 to get the unofficial volatge. After that it has been running like a charm. At 2.9V, I was able to get 2.5x 75 MHz but not more. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #22: Sun Jul 13 22:07:09 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 06:09:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA20279 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20273 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA26032; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970714060950.14056@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 06:09:50 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Michael Smith Cc: internet@cybergal.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Use Netware Emulator support RPL.NLM ? References: <199707131641.JAA27203@hub.freebsd.org> <199707140224.LAA06749@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199707140224.LAA06749@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Mon, Jul 14, 1997 at 11:54:31AM +0930 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith scribbled this message on Jul 14: > Muhammad Isnaini stands accused of saying: > > I mean program that support BOOTROM under Linux/FreeBSD like RPL.NLM > > under Netware box. > > Ok, and what do you want to netboot on your workstations? DOS? FreeBSD? hmm... maybe want he wants is bootpd? to provide the information to machines that want to netboot? other than that, unless he explains further... doubt we can help... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 08:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27355 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [128.3.196.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA27340 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.5) id IAA11025; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:39:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:39:20 -0700 From: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" Message-Id: <199707141539.IAA11025@george.lbl.gov> To: dg@root.com, drussell@saturn-tech.com Subject: Re: AMD K6 Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, brett@lariat.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I cat two messages together to respond since I missed most time last weekend. I did not see any one give more clear spce. First of all, I have AMD K6-166, bought when it just born, and have overclocked to 200 MHz, and so far it has no problem at all. I have post the result of its performance on "Hardware performance guide for Pentium family" under http://www-itg.lbl.gov/ISS/hardware The Cyrix 6x86, some one has tested, is little bit faster and much cheaper, but less compatiability. It DOES not work on most moatherboard, I was told. The ADM K6, generally, works on most new motherboards. The key is that it has to be HX or TX PCI chipset based motherboard. If you use other PCI chipset, such as VX, it is not guaranted to work. The ASUS PCI-P/I-P55TVP4 is the bottum line, and ASUS TX97 is very reliable one. No big suprise. These motherboard is about $140-$155 in the past. Uauslly, the price should be dropped, but it seems goes up by $5 this time. I wonder it is the reason for K6 compatiability. I doubt those $80 motherboard can work for K6. -Jin }> I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a }> FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. }> (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages }> just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen }> the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support }> UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. }> I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? } }We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any }of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are }basically the same in each case, signal 11s all over the place and }make world failures. What's weirder is that it will often work just }fine for days or weeks, the initial make world tests going fine, and }then it will just stop, no make world making it through from that }point on. I'd never seen a CPU fail due to heat death, but it sure }seems like the only explanation here. What's more worrisome is that }the other 4 testers had exactly the same thing happen. } ----- another message ------- } }Anyway, FreeBSD, Inc. now owns an expensive piece of chip jewelry from }AMD since our 30 day return period also elapsed during testing. :( } }>> Have you tried the obvious controlled experiment: putting a Pentium into }>> the same motherboard? }> }>The problem is that there are still too many variables. The K6 and a }>plain Pentium use different voltages, etc. My best guess would be to try }>running the thing at a different voltage. Several people have said they }>had to up the voltage a little to overclock the chip. We might try }>bumping the voltage by .1 or .2 volts and see what happens. Checking }>cooling never hurts, either. } } Did that, no difference. I also changed the motherboard to a different }kind...no difference. From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 08:51:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA28028 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28023 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07685; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707141551.IAA07685@implode.root.com> To: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:39:20 PDT." <199707141539.IAA11025@george.lbl.gov> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:51:48 -0700 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The ADM K6, generally, works on most new motherboards. The key is that it has >to be HX or TX PCI chipset based motherboard. If you use other PCI chipset, >such as VX, it is not guaranted to work. >The ASUS PCI-P/I-P55TVP4 is the bottum line, and ASUS TX97 is very reliable one. The motherboard it is currently on is a new ASUS TX97-E which has specific support for the K6. The previous motherboard was a "Shuttle HOT-555", which also has specific support for the K6. The symptoms are the same on both motherboards: at some random point through a "make world", it will fail with bizzare errors (like missing semicolon or invalid character). As I said in a previous message, the chip worked fine for the first 10 or so make worlds and then began to fail. I've now heard from 5 other people who have had identical experiance with FreeBSD, and some other people that run Linux who had a similar experiance. This seems to indicate that there is some kind of failure mode in the K6 which shows up after a few weeks of use. I've also heard a rumor that the newest K6 chips don't seem to suffer from this (yet?). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 09:28:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00235 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00225 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (local [127.0.0.1]) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00355 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:28:38 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199707141628.CAA00355@labs.usn.blaze.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Faulty motherboard? X-Face: (W@z~5kg?"+5?!2kHP)+l369.~a@oTl^8l87|/s8"EH?Uk~P#N+Ec~Z&@;'LL!;3?y Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:28:38 +1000 From: David Nugent Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yesterday I upgraded an AMD586/133 to a P686/200, which included to change of motherboard and have roughtly the same hardware installed in each. This includes an ISA pnp sb16, which used to work perfectly ok in DOS, OS/2 and UNIX. Now, however, it no longer works under UNIX, but it does work ok under both DOS and OS/2. So my questions is - what is the problem? I'm seeing this written to the console: Sound: DMA timed out - IRQ/DRQ config error? Sound: DMA timed out - IRQ/DRQ config error? [ad infinitum] and this in /var/log/messages Jul 15 02:05:51 labs /kernel: stray irq 7 Jul 15 02:05:53 labs last message repeated 4 times Jul 15 02:05:53 labs /kernel: too many stray irq 7's; not logging any more Jul 15 02:06:49 labs /kernel: Sound: DMA timed out - IRQ/DRQ config error? Jul 15 02:07:20 labs last message repeated 14 times Jul 15 02:07:36 labs last message repeated 3 times It appears as though irq 5's are being generated as spurious interrupts to irq 7. OR, a genuine config problem. In fact, it looks exactly like a configuration problem, except it isn't - what was working, suddenly stopped. The sound obviously 'works', but it is jerkey and only partial sounds are played. FreeBSD doesn't yet support pnp isa yet, so what I've been doing is if the machine is cold-booted, I drop into dos to init the pnp sound card settings, then reboot into freebsd. The machine is rarely turned off, so it isn't like this is a nuisance. This worked fine until I dropped the new motherboard in. I guess amongst the possible expanations is that probing which used to be done with the ISA network card (which was exchanged for a PCI one in the same upgrade) may be causing problems with pnp device configuration. Perhaps the sb16 IS generating irq 7's and its settings have been modified during the boot process. I tried to test that by rebooting into DOS and fiddling with CTCM to use IRQ 7 instead of 5, and booting a kernel using irq7 as well. No luck, unfortunately - CTCM wouldn't seem to allow IRQ7, claiming it was in use by "System Services". Is it possible also that a poor motherboard may also cause this sort of problem? It uses the VXpro chipset, and in all other respect seems to be performing brilliantly. Regards, David -- David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 10:12:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02746 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02729 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA14191; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:11:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:11:47 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199707141711.KAA14191@kithrup.com> To: dg@root.com Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707140924.CAA04924.kithrup.freebsd.hardware@implode.root.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:36 MDT." Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199707140924.CAA04924.kithrup.freebsd.hardware@implode.root.com> you write: > Did that, no difference. I also changed the motherboard to a different >kind...no difference. Okay, I just got off the phone with AMD tech support. First, I found that AMD apparantly has a one-year warranty on the K6, not a 30 day warranty. So Jordan... you should be able to replace the CPU. I also got a request to have someone send a report to hw.support@amd.com; this should include informatin like the motherboard, the symptoms, and what is hoped to be done about it. (I kept telling the person I was mostly calling so AMD would be aware of this, that I had been considering getting a K6 to upgrade my system but simply cannot as long as this is hanging over the processor's head.) As I don't know enough about thud, I couldn't really answer all of his questions, or send the email myself. I hope this is useful :). Sean. From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 11:29:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06282 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (dkelly@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06274 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.8.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id NAA31055; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:21 -0500 (CDT) From: David Kelly Message-Id: <199707141829.NAA31055@fly.HiWAAY.net> To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Faulty motherboard? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > David Nugent writes: > > It appears as though irq 5's are being generated as spurious interrupts to > irq 7. OR, a genuine config problem. In fact, it looks exactly like a > configuration problem, except it isn't - what was working, suddenly > stopped. The sound obviously 'works', but it is jerkey and only partial > sounds are played. Go look in the MB's BIOS setup for IRQ settings. My AMI BIOS has entries for IRQ's where the choice is "auto" or "ISA". Have noticed in the past that unless an ISA card's IRQ is entered as ISA in the BIOS that things don't work well. An Adaptec 1542CF was detected but unusable. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@tomcat1.tbe.com (wk), dkelly@hiwaay.net (hm) ====================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 12:51:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10483 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10477 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.8.6/8.8.2) id VAA04467; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:51:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Guido van Rooij Message-Id: <199707141951.VAA04467@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Intel Pentium II released In-Reply-To: <199706011701.KAA29965@kithrup.com> from Sean Eric Fagan at "Jun 1, 97 10:01:05 am" To: sef@Kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:51:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <19970601104955.42869.kithrup.freebsd.hardware@keltia.freenix.fr> you write: > >According to Mike Andrews: > >> Which version of the ASUS P55T2P4 BIOS are y'all using? > >> 0203 (dated mid-May) is supposed to enable these K6 features... earlier > >> ones supposedly don't know anything about it. > >I'm using 2.03. When I got my K6, I went to take the 2.02 and found they > >have released 2.03 so I installed it. > > I, on the other hand, have a revions 2. *board* -- and I'm told > that I can't run the K6 as a result (base level being revision 3). > > I bought this board about a year ago, I think. Maybe a bit more. > > If anyone knows otherwise, that would be nice -- I would like to get a K6 > instead of the P133 it currently has. > Is there any chance of using the K6 on a P55TVP4? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 14:46:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16105 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16100 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA01910 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:46:16 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.6/brasil-1.1) with UUCP id XAA22229 for hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:30:44 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.6/keltia-uucp-2.9) id WAA12827; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:42:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970714224246.05275@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:42:46 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel Pentium II released References: <199706011701.KAA29965@kithrup.com> <199707141951.VAA04467@gvr.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <199707141951.VAA04467@gvr.win.tue.nl>; from Guido van Rooij on Mon, Jul 14, 1997 at 09:51:12PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3461 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Guido van Rooij: > Is there any chance of using the K6 on a P55TVP4? If it does support dual-plane CPUs, it should support the K6-166 & K6-200. The K6-233 requires 3.2V as do overcloked K6-166 @ 83 MHz. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #22: Sun Jul 13 22:07:09 CEST 1997 From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 18:13:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25971 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA25965 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id PAA18861; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:12:32 -1000 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:12:32 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199707150112.PAA18861@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: David Greenman "Re: AMD K6" (Jul 14, 4:59pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: dg@root.com, Sean Eric Fagan Subject: Re: AMD K6 Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } >First, I found that AMD apparantly has a one-year warranty on the K6, not a } >30 day warranty. So Jordan... you should be able to replace the CPU. } } This contradicts what several suppliers have told me. Basically, AMD has } a 25 day warranty on the parts to suppliers and all warranty claims must be } made to the supplier, not to AMD. It would be great if this turns out to be } wrong. } If it's turning out to be a widespread problem then implied warranties and such should override a short stated warranty. And if AMD wants to remain in the processor business they'll ignore their warranty while the chips are still green. They are one of the under-dogs after all. No sense sitting back and expecting the worst. Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 23:31:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09037 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09029 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA16969; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: David Greenman cc: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707140001.RAA00716@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, David Greenman wrote: > > I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > >FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > >(actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > >just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > >the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > >UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > >I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? > > In tests here with a K6/166, I've been having some reliability problems > that I've isolated to the CPU. The main symptom is that "make world" will > stop with a random error. When I first got the hardware, everything worked > fine - I did at least 10 "make world"s without any trouble, but then things > started getting flakey. I've heard similar reports from two other people, > so this appears to not be an isolated problem. Hmmm... I didn't do any make worlds, so I have not seen the problem. I have only recompiled the kernel several times, but never had a stability problem. There were some rumors on the unoffical AMD web site that there may have been an early batch of the K6s which had a bug which delayed the initial shipments. If you guys got ones from the early batch not long after it first came out, this could be the cause of the problem. What motherboards are you guys using? If any of the FreeBSD users got their K6s from authorized resellers, the cpus may be under a full 1 year warranty despite the fact that the resellers claim 1 month only. Overclocking of course voids it (AMD also warns that using any voltage above the specified voltage can damage the cpu). Things to notice... Not sure if this is accurate, but it appears that new K6s do not show the "PR2" but just the clock speed. Do they have a B on the top surface? From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 23:50:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09800 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09791 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17617; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:51:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" cc: dg@root.com, drussell@saturn-tech.com, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, brett@lariat.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707141539.IAA11025@george.lbl.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Jin Guojun[ITG] wrote: > I cat two messages together to respond since I missed most time last weekend. > I did not see any one give more clear spce. > First of all, I have AMD K6-166, bought when it just born, and have overclocked > to 200 MHz, and so far it has no problem at all. I have post the result of > its performance on "Hardware performance guide for Pentium family" under > http://www-itg.lbl.gov/ISS/hardware > > The Cyrix 6x86, some one has tested, is little bit faster and much cheaper, > but less compatiability. It DOES not work on most moatherboard, I was told. > > The ADM K6, generally, works on most new motherboards. The key is that it has > to be HX or TX PCI chipset based motherboard. If you use other PCI chipset, > such as VX, it is not guaranted to work. > The ASUS PCI-P/I-P55TVP4 is the bottum line, and ASUS TX97 is very reliable one. > > No big suprise. These motherboard is about $140-$155 in the past. Uauslly, > the price should be dropped, but it seems goes up by $5 this time. > I wonder it is the reason for K6 compatiability. > > I doubt those $80 motherboard can work for K6. I've got one for around $80 wholesale that works. Not as fast as the TX or HX though, but it does support 384MB memory. It uses the VXpro chipset (VIA VP1) and has 75MHz & 83MHz jumpers as well as a switching Voltage Regulator. Now the computer is much cooler inside without that linear VR. > > -Jin > > }> I ma currently test driving an AMD K6/200 in a > }> FIC PA-2005 motherboard and I am getting a lot of crashes. > }> (actually it looks like a reset, no cores, no console messages > }> just a spontaneous reboot). I am wondering if anyone has seen > }> the K6 do similar things. The vendor says "The K6 does support > }> UNIX", but I am inclined to believe that he doesn't have a clue. > }> I am thinking I will return the K6 and get a Cyrix M2, any thoughts? > } > }We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any > }of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are > }basically the same in each case, signal 11s all over the place and > }make world failures. What's weirder is that it will often work just > }fine for days or weeks, the initial make world tests going fine, and > }then it will just stop, no make world making it through from that > }point on. I'd never seen a CPU fail due to heat death, but it sure > }seems like the only explanation here. What's more worrisome is that > }the other 4 testers had exactly the same thing happen. > } > ----- another message ------- > } > }Anyway, FreeBSD, Inc. now owns an expensive piece of chip jewelry from > }AMD since our 30 day return period also elapsed during testing. :( > } > }>> Have you tried the obvious controlled experiment: putting a Pentium into > }>> the same motherboard? > }> > }>The problem is that there are still too many variables. The K6 and a > }>plain Pentium use different voltages, etc. My best guess would be to try > }>running the thing at a different voltage. Several people have said they > }>had to up the voltage a little to overclock the chip. We might try > }>bumping the voltage by .1 or .2 volts and see what happens. Checking > }>cooling never hurts, either. > } > } Did that, no difference. I also changed the motherboard to a different > }kind...no difference. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shoppers Network (Support) AMD K5/K6s, Cyrix 6x86, Intel Pentiums/Pro Phone: (415) 759-8584 Email: howard@shoppersnet.com ==============================> WWW - http://www.shoppersnet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 23:53:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09964 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09957 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17765; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: Ollivier Robert cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel Pentium II released In-Reply-To: <19970714224246.05275@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Guido van Rooij: > > Is there any chance of using the K6 on a P55TVP4? > > If it does support dual-plane CPUs, it should support the K6-166 & > K6-200. The K6-233 requires 3.2V as do overcloked K6-166 @ 83 MHz. Just a note... Dual Plane is sufficient for K6-166 & K6-200, but the K6-233 requires a switching voltage regulator (I heard it draws something like over 9 AMPS of current.) > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: There are no limits -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #22: Sun Jul 13 22:07:09 CEST 1997 > From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 14 23:54:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10034 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10025 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hlew@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17833; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:56:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: Richard Foulk cc: dg@root.com, Sean Eric Fagan , hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <199707150112.PAA18861@pegasus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Richard Foulk wrote: > } >First, I found that AMD apparantly has a one-year warranty on the K6, not a > } >30 day warranty. So Jordan... you should be able to replace the CPU. > } > } This contradicts what several suppliers have told me. Basically, AMD has > } a 25 day warranty on the parts to suppliers and all warranty claims must be > } made to the supplier, not to AMD. It would be great if this turns out to be > } wrong. > } > > If it's turning out to be a widespread problem then implied warranties > and such should override a short stated warranty. > > And if AMD wants to remain in the processor business they'll ignore > their warranty while the chips are still green. They are one of the > under-dogs after all. > > No sense sitting back and expecting the worst. Okay. I can say this much: If you purchased the K6 from an authorized reseller who got it from FAI (we sometimes do), it is covered for 1 year. > > > Richard > From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 15 05:12:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA23223 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inreach.com (mail.inreach.com [205.138.224.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23218 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp6224.la.inreach.net (ppp6224.la.inreach.net [199.107.160.224]) by mail.inreach.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/(InReach)) with SMTP id FAA08292 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:12:23 -0700 (PDT) From: dburr@POBoxes.com (Donald Burr) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: sony cdu-53x driver for FreeBSD? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:07:30 GMT Organization: InReach Internet Communications Reply-To: dburr@POBoxes.com Message-ID: <33cb6493.464259@news.inreach.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/32.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings. I just built myself a new FreeBSD box. Being a bit short on cash and all, I did this mainly using whatever spare parts I could beg, borrow, or steal. One of the items I managed to acquire is a Sony CDU-531 CD-ROM drive. This is a 1x CD-ROM; the interface is proprietary (it's an 8-bit ISA card). This drive is *not* compatible with the "other" Sony proprietary interface, the CDU-31A. (Note: the CDU-531 is basically identical to the Sony CDU-535, except it is internal instead of external). I notice that this drive is not supported under FreeBSD. However, this drive has been well supported under Linux for quite a while. I managed to get FreeBSD installed using a DOS partition, but would really like to be able to use this drive under FreeBSD. Has anyone either written a FreeBSD driver for the CDU-53x, or has ported the Linux driver over? If so, please e-mail me, as I would definitely be willing to try it out (I have no qualms about running pre-alpha/alpha/beta code). Please respond by e-mail if possible. Thanks! -- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 564-1871 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 18 01:16:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA09040 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09035 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caught.inna.net (caught.inna.net [206.151.66.7]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA07042; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Arnold To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: jwm@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, root@meeko.eecs.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: AMD K6 In-Reply-To: <16138.868840695@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > We've been totally unable to get the K6 to work reliably, nor have any > of the folks we've been talking to had much luck - the symptoms are > basically the same in each case, signal 11s all over the place and > make world failures. What's weirder is that it will often work just > fine for days or weeks, the initial make world tests going fine, and > then it will just stop, no make world making it through from that > point on. I'd never seen a CPU fail due to heat death, but it sure > seems like the only explanation here. What's more worrisome is that > the other 4 testers had exactly the same thing happen. igor.inna.net has been running a K6-166 since 2 weeks before introduction without problem. In that time period I've done a half-dozen make worlds for various ( mostly dumb ) reasons. Two things I had to do to make things happy and also as fast as possible. 1. Upgrade the motherboard BIOS even when the initial BIOS supposedly supported the K6. 2. SDRAM vs FPM. I actually think #2 was due to flaky FPM ram. In any case, no problems at all. Motherboard : Machspeed VX ( www.machspeed.com ) Cooling Fan : CoolerMaster Cyrix-Rated Fan. AND DONT FORGET THE HEAT XFER COMPOUND. I've had more customers have problems cause their cheap-ass cooling fans weren't machined perfectly flat and the K6's aluminum lid doesn't help much at all either. A little Dow Corning nasty-white-birddroppings coloured heatsink compound solves more problems then most places like to admit... +-----------------------------------------------+ : Tom Arnold - No relation to Rosanne : : SysAdmin/Pres - TBI, Ltd ( inna.net ) : : The Middle Peninsula's Internet Connection : +-----------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 18 05:30:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA18445 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw (root@freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.235.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA18439 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw (8.8.6/8.8.5) id UAA12057; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:21:17 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19970718202117.52577@FreeBSD.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:21:17 +0800 From: Jian-Da Li To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: [Report] IBM DAQA IDE HDD speed on FreeBSD Reply-To: jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here are reports about IDE HD speed on FreeBSD, using normal mode and 32bit + multi-block mode. Hardware: M/B: T2P4 v3.1, BIOS 0203 CPU: iMPP-120 o (66*2.5=166 or 75*2.5=187) RAM: 64MB 60ns DRAM HD: IBM DAQA 32160 OS: FreeBSD-2.2.2-970625-RELENG, UFS async mounted dmesg: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 2067MB (4233600 sectors), 4200 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S Test environment (kernel config file): a) normal mode: (CPU speed 66*2.5=166MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr b) 32bit+multi-block mode: (CPU speed 66*2.5=166MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x00ff80ff vector.. c) 32bit+multi-block mode, bus 75MHz: (CPU speed 75*2.5=187MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x00ff80ff vector.. Bonnie tests: (bonnie -s 48) -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU normal 48 3399 54.2 5884 20.9 5340 29.9 6734 98.8 28504 94.0 1608.9 34.2 32bit 48 4189 70.2 6669 21.8 7595 41.9 6634 97.5 28866 94.9 1761.5 37.1 32bit/75 48 4766 70.6 6864 19.9 7676 37.5 7354 96.1 32608 95.8 1553.5 28.3 Iozone tests: (iozone auto) MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read [normal/66*2.5] [32bit/66*2.5] [32bit/75*2.5] 1 512 4194304 16777216 4971026 22369621 8388608 8388608 1 1024 5592405 16777216 5592405 33554432 14913080 6710886 1 2048 6391320 16777216 5592405 44739242 16777216 7456540 1 4096 6710886 22369621 5592405 44739242 33554432 6100805 1 8192 7064090 22369621 5592405 44739242 26843545 6391320 2 512 4709393 17895697 5965232 22369621 6710886 7895160 2 1024 5478274 29826161 5835553 38347922 12201611 8947848 2 2048 6100805 38347922 5965232 44739242 16777216 8388608 2 4096 6391320 38347922 5965232 53687091 20648881 7456540 2 8192 6710886 38347922 5965232 67108864 26843545 7064090 4 512 4628197 19884107 6391320 22369621 7561562 16268815 4 1024 5368709 33554432 5422938 38347922 11184810 10737418 4 2048 5899680 44739242 6391320 48806446 15790320 8947848 4 4096 6170930 48806446 6242685 59652323 18512790 8521760 4 8192 6468324 48806446 6468324 59652323 25565281 7669584 8 512 4668442 14913080 6170930 19884107 6628035 19522578 8 1024 5478274 23342213 6507526 31580641 6628035 29020049 8 2048 6100805 25565281 6628035 39768215 14316557 37025580 8 4096 6316128 32537631 6628035 44739242 17318416 8801162 8 8192 7064090 21913098 6628035 46684427 22369621 7953643 16 512 4492643 18837575 6297606 19884107 6817408 21262214 16 1024 5187158 30246248 6669203 31122951 6774396 31580641 16 2048 5711392 37675151 6587373 39045157 7561562 24129029 16 4096 6100805 39045157 6669203 44739242 8454660 19173961 16 8192 6689980 31122951 6587373 46684427 9336885 15790320 Completed series of tests -- 李 建 達 (Jian-Da Li) !(交大資工) E-Mail ： http://www.csie.nctu.edu.tw/~jdli From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 18 08:24:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27374 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw (jdli@freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.235.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27362 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw (8.8.6/8.8.5) id XAA16170; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:24:50 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:24:50 +0800 (CST) Message-Id: <199707181524.XAA16170@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> From: Jian-Da Li To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: [New Report] IBM DAQA IDE HDD speed on FreeBSD Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.hardware Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Reply-To: jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (This new version add 150MB and mount-sync data, sorry for reposting) Here are reports about IDE HD speed on FreeBSD, using normal mode and 32bit + multi-block mode. Hardware: M/B: T2P4 v3.1, BIOS 0203 CPU: iMPP-120 o (66*2.5=166 or 75*2.5=187) RAM: 64MB 60ns DRAM HD: IBM DAQA 32160 OS: FreeBSD-2.2.2-970625-RELENG, UFS async mounted dmesg: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 2067MB (4233600 sectors), 4200 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S Test environment (kernel config file): a) normal mode: (CPU speed 66*2.5=166MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr b) 32bit+multi-block mode: (CPU speed 66*2.5=166MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x00ff80ff vector.. c) 32bit+multi-block mode, bus 75MHz: (CPU speed 75*2.5=187MHz) controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x00ff80ff vector.. d) as c, but 150MB e) as c, but 150MB, UFS mount sync Bonnie tests: (bonnie -s 48) -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU normal 48 3399 54.2 5884 20.9 5340 29.9 6734 98.8 28504 94.0 1608.9 34.2 32bit 48 4189 70.2 6669 21.8 7595 41.9 6634 97.5 28866 94.9 1761.5 37.1 32bit/75 48 4766 70.6 6864 19.9 7676 37.5 7354 96.1 32608 95.8 1553.5 28.3 32b/75 150 4733 70.9 6322 17.1 1973 8.6 5534 72.0 6293 12.7 100.2 3.4 SYNC 150 4632 69.4 6296 16.6 1667 8.1 5167 67.1 6346 12.2 98.6 3.6 Iozone tests: (iozone auto) MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read [normal/66*2.5] [32bit/66*2.5] [32bit/75*2.5] 1 512 4194304 16777216 4971026 22369621 8388608 8388608 1 1024 5592405 16777216 5592405 33554432 14913080 6710886 1 2048 6391320 16777216 5592405 44739242 16777216 7456540 1 4096 6710886 22369621 5592405 44739242 33554432 6100805 1 8192 7064090 22369621 5592405 44739242 26843545 6391320 2 512 4709393 17895697 5965232 22369621 6710886 7895160 2 1024 5478274 29826161 5835553 38347922 12201611 8947848 2 2048 6100805 38347922 5965232 44739242 16777216 8388608 2 4096 6391320 38347922 5965232 53687091 20648881 7456540 2 8192 6710886 38347922 5965232 67108864 26843545 7064090 4 512 4628197 19884107 6391320 22369621 7561562 16268815 4 1024 5368709 33554432 5422938 38347922 11184810 10737418 4 2048 5899680 44739242 6391320 48806446 15790320 8947848 4 4096 6170930 48806446 6242685 59652323 18512790 8521760 4 8192 6468324 48806446 6468324 59652323 25565281 7669584 8 512 4668442 14913080 6170930 19884107 6628035 19522578 8 1024 5478274 23342213 6507526 31580641 6628035 29020049 8 2048 6100805 25565281 6628035 39768215 14316557 37025580 8 4096 6316128 32537631 6628035 44739242 17318416 8801162 8 8192 7064090 21913098 6628035 46684427 22369621 7953643 16 512 4492643 18837575 6297606 19884107 6817408 21262214 16 1024 5187158 30246248 6669203 31122951 6774396 31580641 16 2048 5711392 37675151 6587373 39045157 7561562 24129029 16 4096 6100805 39045157 6669203 44739242 8454660 19173961 16 8192 6689980 31122951 6587373 46684427 9336885 15790320 150MB 6331024 bytes/second for writing the file 6899471 bytes/second for reading the file 150MB/SYNC 6204209 bytes/second for writing the file 7725502 bytes/second for reading the file Completed series of tests -- 李 建 達 (Jian-Da Li) !(交大資工) E-Mail ： http://www.csie.nctu.edu.tw/~jdli From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 18 17:59:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27368 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george-2.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27363 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.5) id RAA15055 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:59:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:59:47 -0700 From: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" Message-Id: <199707190059.RAA15055@george.lbl.gov> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dual video/monitor on one FreeBSD machine Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Does any one use one ISA and one PCI video cards (any brand) to drive two monitors under freebsd? Is posssible to use two PCI video cards on one machine? If so, how to configure the X server? Thanks for any support, -Jin From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 19 07:36:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA27759 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 07:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nexgen.hiwaay.net (tnt2-66.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27753 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 07:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nexgen (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nexgen.hiwaay.net (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA07175 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707180022.TAA07175@nexgen.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Non-Intels In-reply-to: Message from Howard Lew of "Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:09:09 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:22:28 -0500 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hlew@www2.shoppersnet.com said: > NexGen Nx586 cpu folks felt even worse because their chips were > labeled as "386s". nexgen: [80] dmesg | head Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE #0: Mon Jul 14 22:57:15 CDT 1997 dkelly@nexgen.hiwaay.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEXGEN CPU: NexGen 586 (386-class CPU) ^^^--> Microsoft wasn't the only one. (grumble grumble grumble) :-) Actually its fair to label the Nx586 as a 386 because it lacks features a 486 has. And has some the 386 doesn't. FWIW NexGen built the worlds fastest 386's, not pin compatible with anything, not even themselves. My CPU is in a ZIF socket but then the factory CPU fan breaks they were exchanging the whole MB rather than trust the user to change the fan, or to ship a CPU with fan attached. Apparently the CPU was factory selected to mate with the MB. Very few users have been able to overclock a NexGen MB. I'd like to see AMD succeed. Maybe I'll upgrade this thing in a couple of months to a K6 if the problems are solved. In the next couple of weeks I'll be needing several systems for work, were downtime costs much more than at home. Pentium 133's are looking attractive. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 19 13:45:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11439 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 13:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11433 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 13:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by sparkie.gnofn.org (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id PAA20772; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:45:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:45:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Johnston To: dkelly@hiwaay.net cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Non-Intels In-Reply-To: <199707180022.TAA07175@nexgen.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > I'd like to see AMD succeed. Maybe I'll upgrade this thing in a couple of > months to a K6 if the problems are solved. In the next couple of weeks I'll > be needing several systems for work, were downtime costs much more than at > home. Pentium 133's are looking attractive. > Ack. Go for a K5. I build FreeBSD boxes with them exclusively, they work like champs. A K5-PR166 is about $100 now. It will be noticeably faster than an iP133. I put 'em on the Asus HX board. Great price/performance and never any noted instability, at ~= $250 for the combo. That's for work systems.. for fun I run a K5-PR166 at home on the ABIT IT5H jumperless HX board with a bus speed of 83Mhz and a CPU multiplier of 1.5 rather than the 66Mhz/1.75 standard bus speed/multiplier combo. Even with the 83Mhz bus, the system makes world over and over and stays up until the power goes out or I want a new kernel. It's also real fast -- I'd love to benchmark it vs. an iP200. -Craig