From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 00:05:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21182 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (metriclient-9.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21177 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA09541; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970413000457.62888@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:04:57 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Vincent Poy Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: <19970411233527.43600@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Vincent Poy on Sat, Apr 12, 1997 at 02:27:18AM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Vincent Poy scribbled this message on Apr 12: > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > Hmmm, for under $200, that still isn't too bad. I thought it > > > would cost way more than that. How much would something new like this > > > cost? > > > > well.. if you go with a cheep pentium mb (it's cheeper than a 486mb) that > > will run you about $95 or $100... then an AMD k5 (they are slightly more > > expensive than an AMD 5x86/133 your looking at aroound $45 (75) to $95 (133). > > then case would be around $50... ethernet card (16bit ne2000) $30... > > memory, say 8megs (might want to get 16megs) for $45... then you have your > > multiport cards... which can have a varing range of prices... so your > > looking at about $300 plus the cost of the multiport cards... > > Hmm, will a K5 run as well as a P5 though? Since it might be > faster but what about compatibility issues? As for the ethernet card, well... as I said I haven't any personal experience... I think I heard that it works perfectly fine... > wouldn't a 100Mbps PCI be better? But is 8 megs really enough for a sure... but it will cost around $70-$80... also... do you need 100mbps? and have the hub? :) > terminal server? Now how much does the multiport cards cost? you'll probably want to run with 16megs though... but most of my memory is taken up by gated... you also have to realize that when running.. most of the pages for the executable will be shared... so you shouldn't have to have more than a couple 100k per port... right now my terminal server has 1meg free and it's serving four port... (and it's running gated, plus a raw getty for serial console logins)... > > of course you can do a lot with this box... I happen to run gated on it so > > that routing is handle properly.. :) > > This is only if I can figure out how to get gated working. =) heh... it's actually not THAT hard to get working once you do... just browse the mailing list archives... I posted an example gated.conf file a few weeks ago... > > > What does that $5k include? > > > > sync card, csu/dsu, 5-10 modems, 5-10 phone lines, another 2gig hd, dat > > drive for backups, inet access (56k frame relay)... most monthly fees will > > be covered for a few months... > > I thought you had a T1 but 56k would cost $5k already? I could pull a T1 for 5k.. but I wouldn't have any money to pay for more than the first month of server... which would be hard to start out with a income of $1k+/month.. :) > > > Yep, that's true unless you had to deal with Rain.net or something > > > in Oregon. > > > > well.. from the sounds of it.. there are a number of higher level providers > > that are starting to fight it out locally... seems one company is offering > > T1 locally.. and they connectivity is via microwave to portland... (that > > way they don't have to run cable)... so there are a number of choices for > > top level providers locally.... this will also causing the service to > > improve to make sure you stay with 'em... > > Hmmm, via microwave? Now that must cost them something to do that > but isn't microwave slower than actual cable? from what I hear it doesn't have a higher latency... and actually if the FCC would allow them they could easily run over 1.544mbit... the only real cost is the FCC license to run it... plus in some ways it's more reliable than cable as you don't have to worry about the cable being dug up.. :) this is only some info that I remeber hearing from a short discussions about alternate providers locally... ttyl.. -- John-Mark Cu Networking Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 00:39:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22283 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22276 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id CAA13098; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:41:02 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013089; Sun Apr 13 07:40:37 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970413023314.00cec4fc@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:33:14 -0500 To: spork From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: TS Holy War (was Re: Some advice needed.) Cc: Vincent Poy , isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:15 PM 4/12/97 -0400, spork wrote: >I've been working at an ISP for a year and a half now (which I guess isn't >all that long...) and I do chuckle somewhat upon looking at this thread. Wanna bet you learned a lot in just the first 6 months? >The number one thing I've learned so far is to not trust anyone's >estimates of cost/time that you will expend making everything work. *NO >matter WHAT* the customer base is assumed to be, you need tech support >people. We have some very intelligent customers that know a whole bunch >about their own networks and machines that call up with *very* stupid >questions... The reason is that the ISP business is a service business >first and foremost before it's a technical biz. Ask anyone who's >making money. I used to have to field calls, and even now, I'll be >working along on schedule and get some panicked customer going nuts that >pulls me off of a project and ruins my day. Hehe. I take some normal tech calls or should say take over, but then I am working on something and want to see if they are being effected by something new or some tweaking. Still some people expect our techs to help them with *any* problem. One person can't fax?! And... >We started with absolute crap equipment (not my choice, BTW) and it came >very close to bringing the company down. Your competition can afford real >modems and term servers that connect 99% of the time and give a nice >healthy thruput. You need that too. Any luser can see if ISP A is >"faster" than ISP B with no technical knowledge involved. Stand alone >modems are a fast ticket to troubleshooting hell. The thing here as well is your provider(s). Network problems and latency that affects you, but the "other" guy is running smooth... >As for servers, seperate everything from the get-go. Put mail on one >machine, shell on another, and web on another. I was around for a >migration from one machine to 12, and it wasn't pretty; in fact it was a >customer service nightmare.... Why 12? How many customers and server breakdown? >I guess the bottom line is, if you're doing this as a business, have the >$$ (or a nice leasing program ;) and spare no expense where reliability is >concerned. Buy good modems (that will hopefully support some 56K crap >that your users will be calling about every day), use a solid OS like >FBSD, get Seagate drives, and go with the stand alone router (not so much >for performance, but to learn the Cisco IOS so you can talk intelligently >with other router-heads)... Leasing is not an option, unless you bank the startup money and use it as collateral and even then, if you have not been in business for at least a year "No." is the answer. Modems are the killer. At first I was very pleased with the SupraFaxModem, which allowed us to expand faster/sooner. Then the never ending beta started and I became less than pleased. Couriers? Finally got them and the change from Courier and PM2 to PM3 was easy. The PM3s are on lease and we have a $0 install fee for CT1 or PRI, as well as paying less than what we pay for POTS. I'll truely be happy when I get to tear down the modems in about a week. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 00:49:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22593 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22587 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id CAA13638; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:49:33 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013631; Sun Apr 13 07:49:21 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970413024159.00ce7f84@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:41:59 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: TS Holy War (was Re: Some advice needed.) Cc: spork , Vincent Poy , isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:12 PM 4/12/97 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: --snip-- >I know of one ISP who had 3 machines doing the work of one (everything >split out, as you say, but with only 200 customers) and it only increased >the maintainance headache to *no* gain whatsoever. 3 machines to secure, >3 machines to maintain, it was evil. I stuck all the services back >on ONE machine again and made a 2nd one a redundant spare for the 1st, >with all of its important files rsync'd over nightly. The 3rd machine >then came free to go to someone's house or something. :-) When I first started with MIX, it had been a "side job" for over 5 years and had about 500 customers, about 40 web sites, and a news server with a full feed. We called them the 3 stooges (different cases, etc), but there were well built and thought out. On a 486DX-40 32Mb we ran mail, RADIUS, DNS, Annex (for Xylogics), and users could telnet, ftp, etc. and when we upgraded (around 1000 customers at the time) to a P133 the change was drastic. My point is most customers might be impressed by PPro and Alphas, but how the system is set up counts. It is still doing all that with ~3000 customers and I added a drive to spread the IO. Plans are to move mail and RADIUS off it, but this is more for security reasons. Customers will have it as a play ground and I only seriously have to deal with security on just one server. >Now they have one machine which still spends most of its time >twiddling its thumbs and a redundant backup which they never had >before. If I'd been able to advise these folks in the beginning, I >could have saved them money spend needlessly (for now) on the 3rd. > >Someday, if this ISP breaks the 500 customer barrier or so, I may >start breaking things down again, though it will probably be just as >easy to simply bump the primary machine's configuration up a notch, >say to a Pentium Pro system or something. The secondary can remain as >it is since it's only intended to be in service during short periods >of outtage anyway. I'd bet adding a few drives would work. Just that now it is getting harder to find smaller drives. Wishing for more RAID support (I am aware that the DPT has support), then I'd go RAID 5 on some, which means I don't have to worry (as much) about problems. >Sometimes it's just as easy to get yourself in a tangle from >over-engineering the solution as well as under-engineering it (and >over-engineering costs a lot more :-). In the extreme one place had the servers to handle 10s of 1000s and in one year only accumulated 2000 or so users. And now I hear a system with a new owner is talking about having 500 dial-in lines (X2 at that) and so on.... must be nice to have money to burn. Hell I'll move in, take over, tell them to use this and *plan* things. Start smaller, but be prepared. And of course they could then pay me more from the start. The thing is to know what you can do with X amount of machine. On that note consider the number of times just recently that someone has well over 100 virtual hosts on a Pentium class, but of course hits aren't mentioned, still. Only recently have we caught up with what I need, which means I still have room to grow and plans continue. Now if I could just get a monthly budget. 8-) .... Can I keep what I don't use? 8-O ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 00:52:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22676 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22671 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA13769; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:59:31 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:59:30 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Vincent Poy cc: John-Mark Gurney , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > Hmm, will a K5 run as well as a P5 though? Since it might be > faster but what about compatibility issues? As for the ethernet card, > wouldn't a 100Mbps PCI be better? But is 8 megs really enough for a > terminal server? Now how much does the multiport cards cost? K5 works fine with FreeBSD. 8MB is enough, especially if you have plenty of swap. I know of a 486DX4-120 with 8 MB RAM running 30 permanent kernel ppp (/usr/sbin/pppd) sessions. It thrashes like hell during startup, but then it settles down. It is also running gated. I did recommend to the owner that he give it more RAM, though. Note that pppd is mostly swapped out for normal use. As for 100 vs 10 Mbps, calculate the b/w of your modems.... Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 00:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22855 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22850 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA13801; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:04:49 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:04:48 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-Reply-To: <199704121303.XAA11015@spooky.eis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions how I might construct a Virtual Private > Network with an encrypted data stream? > > The scenario is two FreeBSD systems that are Internet gateways for a company > that has offices in several states. And they want to transfer files, email, > fileserver traffic etc. via the Internet but keep it secure. There is a program called ipip, which is IP over IP. It is not encrypted, but DES encrypting the data before encapsulation could not be too hard. It's on my to-do list, but a long way down. See ftp.hilink.com.au:/pub/Net/ipip.tar.gz Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 01:34:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23849 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23841 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id DAA16404; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:35:33 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016396; Sun Apr 13 08:35:12 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970413032749.00cf3968@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:27:49 -0500 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:59 PM 4/13/97 +1000, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: >On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: >K5 works fine with FreeBSD. 8MB is enough, especially if you have plenty >of swap. I know of a 486DX4-120 with 8 MB RAM running 30 permanent >kernel ppp (/usr/sbin/pppd) sessions. It thrashes like hell during >startup, but then it settles down. It is also running gated. I did >recommend to the owner that he give it more RAM, though. Note that pppd >is mostly swapped out for normal use. Wasn't this in an ISP environment? Using swap is slow and won't matter much for a workstation, but for a server 32Mb should be the start point. For a DNS only server, 16Mb. >As for 100 vs 10 Mbps, calculate the b/w of your modems.... PCI helps to keep down collisions, at that is what I have seen from a mix of 16 bit NICs and 10/100 PCI cards using 10bT. YMMV ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 02:33:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA26113 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26108 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA10230; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970413023340.27101@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:33:40 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: <3.0.32.19970413032749.00cf3968@mixcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970413032749.00cf3968@mixcom.com>; from Jeffrey J. Mountin on Sun, Apr 13, 1997 at 03:27:49AM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey J. Mountin scribbled this message on Apr 13: > At 05:59 PM 4/13/97 +1000, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > >On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > >K5 works fine with FreeBSD. 8MB is enough, especially if you have plenty > >of swap. I know of a 486DX4-120 with 8 MB RAM running 30 permanent > >kernel ppp (/usr/sbin/pppd) sessions. It thrashes like hell during > >startup, but then it settles down. It is also running gated. I did > >recommend to the owner that he give it more RAM, though. Note that pppd > >is mostly swapped out for normal use. > > Wasn't this in an ISP environment? Using swap is slow and won't matter > much for a workstation, but for a server 32Mb should be the start point. > For a DNS only server, 16Mb. yes... but we are talking about a terminal server... they have very small memory foot prints as you normally don't run much on one... right now my diskless termserver has a HUMONGOUS size of 13megs... hmm... something must be wrong... the last time I checked it was only 6-7megs... of course I can login to it via serial console and get plenty of stats from the machine... would people be interested in a remote statistics gathering program? you would run a small daemon on the terminal server (or anything else) then you could connect to the machine with a client and obtain any info you might want from it... > >As for 100 vs 10 Mbps, calculate the b/w of your modems.... > > PCI helps to keep down collisions, at that is what I have seen from a mix > of 16 bit NICs and 10/100 PCI cards using 10bT. YMMV hmm... interesting.. I would think that PCI would keep the host processor a bit more free to do other things... guess I'll have to finally invest in a PCI ethernet addapter for my maine server... ttyl... -- John-Mark Cu Networking Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 02:55:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA26639 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA26634 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id EAA25942; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:56:37 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma025890; Sun Apr 13 09:56:09 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970413044843.00d08c04@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:48:44 -0500 To: John-Mark Gurney From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:33 AM 4/13/97 -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >yes... but we are talking about a terminal server... they have very small >memory foot prints as you normally don't run much on one... right now my >diskless termserver has a HUMONGOUS size of 13megs... hmm... something >must be wrong... the last time I checked it was only 6-7megs... of course >I can login to it via serial console and get plenty of stats from the >machine... Yarg. Long running thread. OK then. I'd still say 16, to avoid swapping and from a security point this system will just do the term server, I guess. >would people be interested in a remote statistics gathering program? you >would run a small daemon on the terminal server (or anything else) then >you could connect to the machine with a client and obtain any info you >might want from it... What kind of stats? Any? In that case... ;-) >hmm... interesting.. I would think that PCI would keep the host processor >a bit more free to do other things... guess I'll have to finally invest in >a PCI ethernet addapter for my maine server... ttyl... Threw me off at first, so I rebooted all the servers on one segment of the network. Two servers are hit almost equally hard, one with PCI and one not, a mix of PCI and 16, with one 8 of varing workload. The hardest hit server with the PCI NIC had the lowest percentage. Key word "bus mastering" I guess. I know some have advised against Intell EtherXpress 100B cards, but I like them and the 3C595 was broken in 2.1.5, which is the only other 10/100 I had around. Plans to go 100bT for certain segments later this year. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 05:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA02574 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 05:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02569 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29214; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:53:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: spork cc: Alan Batie , "Darrin R. Woods" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sprint or MCI ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, spork wrote: > I'll second that. In a word, if you are in NYC, they SUCK. There's one > problematic router here that is so overloaded it reboots a few times a > day. This has been happening for about a year... Email to them has not > been responded to in months... Yup - they ran us off NYC - but they also just plain took it down alot. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 06:11:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA03439 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 06:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03433 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 06:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00399; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:59:43 +0800 (WST) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:59:43 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Vincent Poy cc: Steve , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > > What is the maximum modems a multi-port serial card can handle and > how many can you put into a box? > I might be a tad late but... I've seen people put 256 lines in a single UNIX terminal server. They used 4 64-port Stallion cards (EC/64) .. it worked, kinda. It KILLED the ISA bus (the guy actually fixed it by some nice tweaking of the BIOS parameters and some source hacking) but from memory he only puts three EC/64 cards per machine now (giving you 192 ports per box). -- Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ... | (also known as the Good, the bad and the | ugly..) From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 07:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA06808 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 07:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06801 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 07:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA11433; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 07:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970413072032.52259@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 07:20:32 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: <3.0.32.19970413044843.00d08c04@mixcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970413044843.00d08c04@mixcom.com>; from Jeffrey J. Mountin on Sun, Apr 13, 1997 at 04:48:44AM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey J. Mountin scribbled this message on Apr 13: > >would people be interested in a remote statistics gathering program? you > >would run a small daemon on the terminal server (or anything else) then > >you could connect to the machine with a client and obtain any info you > >might want from it... > > What kind of stats? Any? In that case... ;-) actually.. I thought on it a bit more.. basicly, any type of stats you currently get from a *stat* program... I thought of a nice way to do this really quite small.. I'll see what I can do with this idea... :) > I know some have advised against Intell EtherXpress 100B cards, but I like > them and the 3C595 was broken in 2.1.5, which is the only other 10/100 I > had around. Plans to go 100bT for certain segments later this year. ahh... actually... David Greenman has been working on the fxp0 driver... and it is now the only driver that supports full duplex 100bT... this is also the card that is used in wcarchive... I can get them from my supplier for slightly more than a generic DEC chipset.. and less than a 3Com... ttyl... -- John-Mark Cu Networking Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 08:02:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA08857 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08842 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17963; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704131501.JAA17963@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: spork , "Jeffrey J. Mountin" , Vincent Poy , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TS Holy War (was Re: Some advice needed.) In-Reply-To: <16514.860907370@time.cdrom.com> References: <16514.860907370@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But 200 customers is not an ISP, that's a hobby ;) > > You're clearly not very familiar with the rural ISP market. 200 is > actually pretty good when you're trying to connect up folks in Podunk, > Iowa. :-) Or 'Havre, MT', which is about the size of my parent's ISP. There are three of them, all about the same size with *very* different connection plans that seem to suit the different groups they service. Nate From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 09:00:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11319 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm5-23.comnet.ca [206.75.140.151]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11313 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0wGRks-0008FPC; Sun, 13 Apr 97 12:03 EDT Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Cc: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Apr 13, 97 06:04:48 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk check out http://skip.incog.com > > > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > > > Does anyone have any suggestions how I might construct a Virtual Private > > Network with an encrypted data stream? > > > > The scenario is two FreeBSD systems that are Internet gateways for a company > > that has offices in several states. And they want to transfer files, email, > > fileserver traffic etc. via the Internet but keep it secure. > > There is a program called ipip, which is IP over IP. It is not > encrypted, but DES encrypting the data before encapsulation could not be > too hard. It's on my to-do list, but a long way down. > > See ftp.hilink.com.au:/pub/Net/ipip.tar.gz > > Danny > From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 13:21:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22148 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.warp.co.uk (root@mail.warp.co.uk [194.207.68.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22103 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ian-laptop (ppp1.warp.co.uk [194.207.69.30]) by mail.warp.co.uk with SMTP id VAA09441; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:20:42 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970413203248.006a4cd0@mail.warp.co.uk> X-Sender: tony@mail.warp.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:32:48 +0100 To: Vincent Poy From: Anthony Barlow Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 21:22 10-04-97 -0700, Vincent Poy wrote: >On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > >> Of course, the startup cost of a dedicated box can sometimes be too much >> when starting out. > > Yep, startup costs are a thing to worry about. > >> I've seen a more graduated system, where you can start with BSD boxes as >> term servs and move up to dedicated boxes when you have the funds. I just >> recently moved 3 terminal servers back to irc/mail/??? two weeks ago. >> It's worked out relatively well(just gotta sell off the cyclades now). > > Speaking about terminal servers, is there anyway to restrict it to >just allow ppp and telnet? Use radius and tell the ports that they are secure. Then in the users entry simple say that they are a network user for ppp, or telnet/rlogin for shell. Regards, Anthony From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 14:11:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24533 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from surf.pangea.ca (root@surf.pangea.ca [204.112.101.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24524 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from surf.pangea.ca (tyrelb@surf.pangea.ca [204.112.101.109]) by surf.pangea.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06485 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:09:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:09:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Tyrel Burton To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Virtual hosting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know how to set up virtual hosting on FreeBSD? I am trying to have multiple domains (eg: www.domain1.com, www.domain2.com) on my computer. I want to set up virtual WWW, e-mail addresses, and hopefully FTP. Does anyone know where I can find some good information on the 'net about this? Or do you have and suggestions? Thanks, Tyrel. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 14:39:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA25955 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sputnik1.wwwebspace.co.uk (sputnik1.wwwebspace.co.uk [194.201.36.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25948 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.wwwebspace.co.uk (colossus.wwwebspace.co.uk [194.201.36.157]) by sputnik1.wwwebspace.co.uk (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA26020; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:50:05 +0100 (BST) Received: by colossus.wwwebspace.co.uk with Microsoft Mail id <01BC485C.7D2CA440@colossus.wwwebspace.co.uk>; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:46:13 +-100 Message-ID: <01BC485C.7D2CA440@colossus.wwwebspace.co.uk> From: Mark Sparrow To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" , "'Tyrel Burton'" Subject: RE: Virtual hosting Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:46:11 +-100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I use ifconfig alias to assign more than one IP address, and the rest is done in DNS. Mark Sparrow Webspace Worldwide Limited ---------- From: Tyrel Burton[SMTP:tyrelb@surf.pangea.ca] Sent: 13 April 1997 17:10 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Virtual hosting Does anyone know how to set up virtual hosting on FreeBSD? I am trying to have multiple domains (eg: www.domain1.com, www.domain2.com) on my computer. I want to set up virtual WWW, e-mail addresses, and hopefully FTP. Does anyone know where I can find some good information on the 'net about this? Or do you have and suggestions? Thanks, Tyrel. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 15:59:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA28549 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28541 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA01526; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:57:16 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704132257.IAA01526@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-Reply-To: from Tom Torrance at home at "Apr 13, 97 12:03:50 pm" To: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:57:15 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > check out http://skip.incog.com > Oh well it looks great, bummer it won't let me download it from Australia. How stuffed is that? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 16:24:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA29711 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29704 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA17582; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:32:01 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:32:00 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Ernie Elu cc: Tom Torrance at home , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-Reply-To: <199704132257.IAA01526@spooky.eis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > > check out http://skip.incog.com > > > > Oh well it looks great, bummer it won't let me download it from Australia. > > How stuffed is that? Welcome to the world of US export restrictions. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 16:26:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA29803 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.iserv.net (mail.iserv.net [204.177.184.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29792 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dataquik.iserv.net (iserv-as5200-1-6.iserv.net [206.114.39.6]) by mail.iserv.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA14269 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:23:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199704132323.TAA14269@mail.iserv.net> From: "C" To: Subject: Resources ? Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:26:17 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, anyone care to share their information resources other than this list? We have more tenacity than knowledge and need to get up to speed on the latter quickly. ______________________________________________ from the desk of... Charles R. Powers >....temporarily.....> dataquik@iserv.net ______________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 17:23:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03200 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03190 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18885; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:20:38 -0700 (PDT) To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Ernie Elu , Tom Torrance at home , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:32:00 +1000." Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <18882.860977238@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Welcome to the world of US export restrictions. Actually, we can export them from Walnut Creek CDROM, since it's in the San Francisco bay area (reference recent S.F. Judge's decision). Walnut Creek CDROM's lawyer has deemed it legal, and we are now exporting crypto on our CDs. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 17:54:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA05809 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05802 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA18020; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:01:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:01:52 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ernie Elu , Tom Torrance at home , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-Reply-To: <18882.860977238@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Welcome to the world of US export restrictions. > > Actually, we can export them from Walnut Creek CDROM, since it's > in the San Francisco bay area (reference recent S.F. Judge's decision). > > Walnut Creek CDROM's lawyer has deemed it legal, and we are now > exporting crypto on our CDs. Does this mean I can copy anything I like to my account on freefall, and then from there to Melbourne :-) Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 18:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06726 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06703 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA19193; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:11:44 -0700 (PDT) To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Ernie Elu , Tom Torrance at home , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:01:52 +1000." Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:11:44 -0700 Message-ID: <19190.860980304@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Welcome to the world of US export restrictions. > > > > Actually, we can export them from Walnut Creek CDROM, since it's > > in the San Francisco bay area (reference recent S.F. Judge's decision). > > > > Walnut Creek CDROM's lawyer has deemed it legal, and we are now > > exporting crypto on our CDs. > > Does this mean I can copy anything I like to my account on freefall, and > then from there to Melbourne :-) Yes, it actually probably does. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 18:22:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07137 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tm.net.my (janeway.tm.net.my [202.188.0.155]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07131 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Janeway (Janeway [202.188.0.155]) by mail.tm.net.my (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA24945; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:19:49 +0800 (SGT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:19:49 +0800 (SGT) From: Swee-Chuan Khoo X-Sender: sckhoo@Janeway To: Tyrel Burton cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Virtual hosting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk apache can do virtual hosting. wu-ftpd can also do it using guest group. On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Tyrel Burton wrote: > Does anyone know how to set up virtual hosting on FreeBSD? I am trying to > have multiple domains (eg: www.domain1.com, www.domain2.com) on my > computer. I want to set up virtual WWW, e-mail addresses, and hopefully > FTP. Does anyone know where I can find some good information on the 'net > about this? Or do you have and suggestions? > > Thanks, > Tyrel. > +-------------------------------------------+ | Swee-Chuan Khoo - System Administrator | | 603-7337757 ( voice ) 603-7345577 ( fax ) | | sckhoo@tm.net.my, sckhoo@asiapac.net | | #include | +-------------------------------------------+ Live Long and Prosper From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 18:47:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA08030 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.key.net.au (root@[203.35.4.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08023 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by house.key.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA02997; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:47:20 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:47:20 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew cc: Tyrel Burton , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Virtual hosting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Tyrel Burton wrote: > > > Does anyone know how to set up virtual hosting on FreeBSD? I am trying to > > computer. I want to set up virtual WWW, e-mail addresses, and hopefully How to set up virtual email domains is described in the sendmail FAQ. Andrew From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 21:43:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA14514 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14505 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00552; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:31:32 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:31:32 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream In-Reply-To: <19190.860980304@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Actually, we can export them from Walnut Creek CDROM, since it's > > > in the San Francisco bay area (reference recent S.F. Judge's decision). > > > > > > Walnut Creek CDROM's lawyer has deemed it legal, and we are now > > > exporting crypto on our CDs. > > > > Does this mean I can copy anything I like to my account on freefall, and > > then from there to Melbourne :-) > > Yes, it actually probably does. > Wow. I wouldn't mind having a freefall account if that was the case *grin* -- Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ... | (also known as the Good, the bad and the | ugly..) From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 22:07:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15383 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15376; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00633; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:55:03 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:55:02 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Anthony Barlow cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970413211535.006b4954@mail.warp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'm pretty sure the cisco 2501 could do that.. but I don't think this is > >the list to ask how to play with IOS (unless of course, someone has > >already done it :) > > We use Livingston routers and all you need to do is put it in the filters > rule deny 'deny icmp' > Thats easy. :) ipfw add deny icmp from any to any (or something like that) I'm trying to firewall large ICMP packets :) Hmm.. if noone has a solution, its kernel-hacking time. (joyous) Thanks, Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 22:58:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17661 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from l321.omsk.net.ru (pppl321.omsk.net.ru [194.226.32.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17601; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from l321.omsk.net.ru (FreeBSD-1.l321.omsk.net.ru [194.226.33.65]) by l321.omsk.net.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17367; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:49:00 +0700 (OSD) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:49:00 +0700 (OSD) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: Adrian Chadd cc: Anthony Barlow , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:55:02 +0800 (WST) > From: Adrian Chadd > To: Anthony Barlow > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. > > ipfw add deny icmp from any to any (or something like that) > > I'm trying to firewall large ICMP packets :) You may also deny all frag packets. In ipfilter by Darren Red it's simple. May I right ? Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@l321.omsk.net.ru From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 13 23:37:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19736 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.aceonline.com.au (obiwan.aceonline.com.au [203.103.90.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19730; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.aceonline.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01001; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:20:20 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:20:19 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Eugeny Kuzakov cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Eugeny Kuzakov wrote: > On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > I'm trying to firewall large ICMP packets :) > > You may also deny all frag packets. In ipfilter by Darren Red it's simple. > May I right ? > Ta :) But then, most of our dialup users have MTU/MRU set to 296, and that would fragment 1500-byte packets (please correct me if I'm wrong anyone). Thanks anyway :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 00:17:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22233 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22226; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:17:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199704140717.AAA22226@freefall.freebsd.org> To: alex@comsys.com Subject: Re: Java compiler for FreeBSD? Cc: freebsd-isp Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jave source to bytecode is optimal at this time Use javac from ftp://freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/LOCAL_PORTS/jdk102.11-26.tar.gz. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 00:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23927 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23908 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA19695; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:50:36 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:50:35 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: How to set up FreeBSD as a terminal server with PPP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have fixed the bugs and rerolled the terminal server kit. You'll find it at Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28152 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.warp.co.uk (root@mail.warp.co.uk [194.207.68.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28135; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from temp1.warp.co.uk (temp1.warp.co.uk [194.207.68.11]) by mail.warp.co.uk with SMTP id KAA11633; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:13:07 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970414101117.006a1bd0@mail.warp.co.uk> X-Sender: tony@mail.warp.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:11:17 +0100 To: Eugeny Kuzakov From: Anthony Barlow Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:49 14-04-97 +0700, Eugeny Kuzakov wrote: >On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:55:02 +0800 (WST) >> From: Adrian Chadd >> To: Anthony Barlow >> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org >> Subject: Re: Firewalling large ICMP packets.. >> >> ipfw add deny icmp from any to any (or something like that) >> >> I'm trying to firewall large ICMP packets :) > >You may also deny all frag packets. In ipfilter by Darren Red it's simple. >May I right ? Sorry I wouldn't know. Our Filter (internet.in) looks like this deny 194.207.68.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 < Blocks spoofing attempts 68.0 is our NOC center's network permit tcp permit udp deny icmp < Block the Ping of Death etc. Regards, Anthony From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 02:25:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28697 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.plusline.de (news.plusline.de [194.231.79.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28675 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.plusline.de (pluto.gds.de [194.77.222.13]) by news.plusline.de (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11706; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:23:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970414112150.0069f1f8@ns.gds.de> X-Sender: richard@ns.gds.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:21:50 +0200 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" From: Richard Gresek Subject: terminal server with PPP & TACACS or Radius Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id CAA28689 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have fixed the bugs and rerolled the terminal server kit. >You'll find it at >In the kit you'll find: > >* more docs and installation instructions >* pppd binaries for 2.1.5-2.1.7.1 and 2.2+ which correctly log users to > wtmp and utmp, and support denying users to use /etc/master.password > PAP logins if they are listed in /etc/ppp/ppp.disabled, or if the user's > shell is not listed in /etc/ppp/ppp.shells. >* Sample login script and gettytab configuration. >* Tips for using Win95 and Macintosh FreePPP Is it possible to authenticate users with an TACACS Server? We are running 3 ´remote´ ISPs with FreeBSD as terminal servers. I´d like to have to manage only one central database for all users in all of these locations. How should the system be set up to use TACACS or Radius for incoming PPP connections? Thanks Richard Gresek #======================================================= # # ==============> D P N <============== # =======> Deutsches Provider Network <========= # # Richard Gresek Internet PoP fuer # c/o Plus.Line -> Frankfurt # Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 -> Stuttgart # D-60596 Frankfurt/M. -> Westerwald # Tel.: +49 69 61991275 # Fax: +49 69 610238 http://www.plusline.de #======================================================= From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:07:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA00680 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00673 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from knudde (knudde.simplex.nl [193.78.46.27]) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5-RS) with SMTP id MAA13222; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:04:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:04:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199704141004.MAA13222@xs1.simplex.nl> X-Sender: maartje@pop.simplex.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Maartje van der Heide Subject: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine? Cc: maartje@simplex.nl Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, While upgrading my newsmachine the first two days I lost 2 Micropolis harddisks. One of the 1.5 year old disks (older type but 7200 rpm) only made alot of noise after restarting the machine, and the replacement Micropolis harddisk that worked fine in a Windows 95 machine, showed alot of bad blocks after being placed in the newsmachine. So we again replaced it, this time with a grand new Micropolis 3243 3.5" 1.625" high. And now, about three weeks later this one gave up too (too many bad blocks to reallocate). (It's one of three 4 Gb Micropolis harddisks (SCSI) concatenated for the newsdata, fun fun, gone gone) Now, is this just bad luck, since we had the micropolis harddisks working for one and half year without a single problem? The rotational speed is 7200 rpm, is it too much for a newsmachine (will it heat up too much) ? Or will there be no problem when I buy a separate box to hold (and cool) the disks? Thanks in advance, Maartje van der Heide Sysop Simplex maartje@simplex.nl From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:12:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA01023 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01014 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA28540; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: John-Mark Gurney cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: <19970413000457.62888@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Hmm, will a K5 run as well as a P5 though? Since it might be > > faster but what about compatibility issues? As for the ethernet card, > > well... as I said I haven't any personal experience... I think I heard > that it works perfectly fine... Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences between the AMD and the Intel? > > wouldn't a 100Mbps PCI be better? But is 8 megs really enough for a > > sure... but it will cost around $70-$80... also... do you need 100mbps? and > have the hub? :) Well, 100Mbps might be a good idea if you had other machines locally hooked up to it. > > terminal server? Now how much does the multiport cards cost? > > you'll probably want to run with 16megs though... but most of my memory > is taken up by gated... you also have to realize that when running.. most of > the pages for the executable will be shared... so you shouldn't have to have > more than a couple 100k per port... right now my terminal server has 1meg > free and it's serving four port... (and it's running gated, plus a raw > getty for serial console logins)... Hmmm, I don't think 16 megs is enough these days for anything especially when it's doing something like this. > > This is only if I can figure out how to get gated working. =) > > heh... it's actually not THAT hard to get working once you do... just > browse the mailing list archives... I posted an example gated.conf file > a few weeks ago... I guess things are always hard until you do it a few times or even the first time. I saw your example gated.conf file but am still a bit confused on how to get it setted up correctly. > > I thought you had a T1 but 56k would cost $5k already? > > I could pull a T1 for 5k.. but I wouldn't have any money to pay for more > than the first month of server... which would be hard to start out with a > income of $1k+/month.. :) Hmmm, that is a good reason but wouldn't a 56k not have enough bandwidth for the modems? > > Hmmm, via microwave? Now that must cost them something to do that > > but isn't microwave slower than actual cable? > > from what I hear it doesn't have a higher latency... and actually if the > FCC would allow them they could easily run over 1.544mbit... the only real > cost is the FCC license to run it... plus in some ways it's more reliable > than cable as you don't have to worry about the cable being dug up.. :) > this is only some info that I remeber hearing from a short discussions about > alternate providers locally... What is the speed the microwave runs at? A T1 actually runs 1.536Mbps only. I just wished there was a way to hook up ethernet cable to the NSP as they are only 1.5 blocks away. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:23:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA01551 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01542 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA28577; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Adrian Chadd cc: Steve , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > What is the maximum modems a multi-port serial card can handle and > > how many can you put into a box? > > I might be a tad late but... Late is better than never =) > I've seen people put 256 lines in a single UNIX terminal server. > They used 4 64-port Stallion cards (EC/64) .. it worked, kinda. > It KILLED the ISA bus (the guy actually fixed it by some nice tweaking of > the BIOS parameters and some source hacking) but from memory he only puts > three EC/64 cards per machine now (giving you 192 ports per box). Hmmm, do these Stallion cards cost less than the Cyclades per port and how does the reliability and the speed compare? Does putting in 3 cards still require some tweaking and source hacking? Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:42:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA02859 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02854 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA14274; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970414034150.35628@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:41:50 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Vincent Poy Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: <19970413000457.62888@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Vincent Poy on Mon, Apr 14, 1997 at 03:12:27AM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Vincent Poy scribbled this message on Apr 14: > On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > Hmm, will a K5 run as well as a P5 though? Since it might be > > > faster but what about compatibility issues? As for the ethernet card, > > > > well... as I said I haven't any personal experience... I think I heard > > that it works perfectly fine... > > Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences > between the AMD and the Intel? I would say it's the price... :) I run one of their AMD 5x86/133 processors.. the only reason they rate the processor at P75 is because it doesn't have the memory bandwidth that a petium has... it out performs a friends P90 according to Norton Sysinfo's CPU Benchmark... the best place to get more specific info would be to visit AMD's home page... [...] > > > terminal server? Now how much does the multiport cards cost? > > > > you'll probably want to run with 16megs though... but most of my memory > > is taken up by gated... you also have to realize that when running.. most of > > the pages for the executable will be shared... so you shouldn't have to have > > more than a couple 100k per port... right now my terminal server has 1meg > > free and it's serving four port... (and it's running gated, plus a raw > > getty for serial console logins)... > > Hmmm, I don't think 16 megs is enough these days for anything > especially when it's doing something like this. well.. if your running a terminal server.. I'm pretty sure 16megs would be more than plenty... remeber there isn't that much data that is used in a terminal server... you will only end up with a max of 100k per port.. and that means you can have around 80 ports in 8megs of ram... leaving the rest for other stuff.. and that 100k per port figure is being overly generous... > > > This is only if I can figure out how to get gated working. =) > > > > heh... it's actually not THAT hard to get working once you do... just > > browse the mailing list archives... I posted an example gated.conf file > > a few weeks ago... > > I guess things are always hard until you do it a few times or even > the first time. I saw your example gated.conf file but am still a bit > confused on how to get it setted up correctly. heh.. know what you mean... I haven't played much with it... I just got that config file working.. and haven't played with it since.. :) > > > I thought you had a T1 but 56k would cost $5k already? > > > > I could pull a T1 for 5k.. but I wouldn't have any money to pay for more > > than the first month of server... which would be hard to start out with a > > income of $1k+/month.. :) > > Hmmm, that is a good reason but wouldn't a 56k not have enough > bandwidth for the modems? well... if your starting out it should be fine for 5-10 modems.. though you will EASYLY over load it.. especially if more than one or two people decide to startup a ftp session... and once you have the 5-10 modems.. you're very close to getting the 1k a month for T1... and in the mean time... you can go fract t1... > > > Hmmm, via microwave? Now that must cost them something to do that > > > but isn't microwave slower than actual cable? > > > > from what I hear it doesn't have a higher latency... and actually if the > > FCC would allow them they could easily run over 1.544mbit... the only real > > cost is the FCC license to run it... plus in some ways it's more reliable > > than cable as you don't have to worry about the cable being dug up.. :) > > this is only some info that I remeber hearing from a short discussions about > > alternate providers locally... > > What is the speed the microwave runs at? A T1 actually runs I don't know exactly... this is all from a short conversation about alternate providers... (and now I can't even remeber the provider's name :( ) > 1.536Mbps only. I just wished there was a way to hook up ethernet cable > to the NSP as they are only 1.5 blocks away. well... talk to 'em... there might be a way... either with the telco running dry copper for you or some way else... then you can use something like etinc's bandwidth limiter to limit the bandwidth you will push/get... ttyl... -- John-Mark Cu Networking Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03209 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03203 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA28758; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:49:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Anthony Barlow cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970413203248.006a4cd0@mail.warp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Anthony Barlow wrote: > > Speaking about terminal servers, is there anyway to restrict it to > >just allow ppp and telnet? > > Use radius and tell the ports that they are secure. Then in the users entry > simple say that they are a network user for ppp, or telnet/rlogin for shell. How does radius work exactly? And then is there a way to limit the telnet/rlogin to be able to telnet to only certain machines? Someone mentioned something about a diskless FreeBSD box, anyone know how these work and would the diskless box need to be locally connected to a actual FreeBSD server or can it be done remotely? Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 03:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03453 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03447 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA20444; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:02:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:02:10 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Richard Gresek cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: terminal server with PPP & TACACS or Radius In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970414112150.0069f1f8@ns.gds.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id DAA03449 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Richard Gresek wrote: > Is it possible to authenticate users with an TACACS Server? > > We are running 3 ´remote´ ISPs with FreeBSD as terminal servers. I´d like > to have to manage only one central database for all users in all of these > locations. How should the system be set up to use TACACS or Radius for > incoming PPP connections? Find me the source code for a tacacs or radius client, and I'll integrate it into pppd. Note that I need the *client*. I have a radius server running under FreeBSD myself, but I don't seem to have the client software. If you can find it, I'll be pleased. I'm not saying it is hard; I just have not looked hard. Try ftp.livingston.com or ftp.merit.edu. cheers, Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 04:22:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA05552 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA05545 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA28888; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:22:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: John-Mark Gurney cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: <19970414034150.35628@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences > > between the AMD and the Intel? > > I would say it's the price... :) I run one of their AMD 5x86/133 processors.. > the only reason they rate the processor at P75 is because it doesn't have the > memory bandwidth that a petium has... it out performs a friends P90 according > to Norton Sysinfo's CPU Benchmark... I doubt it's just the price since Intel is the real thing while AMD isn't. And isn't the 5x86 more of a 486 chip than a P5 competitor? > the best place to get more specific info would be to visit AMD's home page... Actually, that's the worst place since they will always make their product sound better. > [...] > > > Hmmm, I don't think 16 megs is enough these days for anything > > especially when it's doing something like this. > > well.. if your running a terminal server.. I'm pretty sure 16megs would be > more than plenty... remeber there isn't that much data that is used in a > terminal server... you will only end up with a max of 100k per port.. and > that means you can have around 80 ports in 8megs of ram... leaving the > rest for other stuff.. and that 100k per port figure is being overly > generous... Well, if you had telnet/rlogin as well as pppd for that term server and the machine might also use a ET card to function as a router too, it might not be enough. > > I guess things are always hard until you do it a few times or even > > the first time. I saw your example gated.conf file but am still a bit > > confused on how to get it setted up correctly. > > heh.. know what you mean... I haven't played much with it... I just got > that config file working.. and haven't played with it since.. :) It's just like when we got our ET based router working with GaiaNet, we're not touching that FreeBSD box since we don't have a backup router if it doesn't work the next time again =) > > Hmmm, that is a good reason but wouldn't a 56k not have enough > > bandwidth for the modems? > > well... if your starting out it should be fine for 5-10 modems.. though you > will EASYLY over load it.. especially if more than one or two people decide > to startup a ftp session... and once you have the 5-10 modems.. you're very > close to getting the 1k a month for T1... and in the mean time... you can > go fract t1... Hmm, isn't 5-10 modems already 640k of bandwidth while the line is 56k only? I mean even 2 28.8k modems already use more than 56k. > > What is the speed the microwave runs at? A T1 actually runs > > I don't know exactly... this is all from a short conversation about > alternate providers... (and now I can't even remeber the provider's name :( ) Hopefully you'll remember sometime. > > 1.536Mbps only. I just wished there was a way to hook up ethernet cable > > to the NSP as they are only 1.5 blocks away. > > well... talk to 'em... there might be a way... either with the telco running > dry copper for you or some way else... then you can use something like > etinc's bandwidth limiter to limit the bandwidth you will push/get... I'm not sure since it seems like they quoted me a price that includes the line to the telco so that might not be possible. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 04:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06019 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.linkdesign.com (nserv1.hlink.com.cy [194.42.131.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06004 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsd.linkdesign.com (nicosia5.cylink.com.cy [194.42.129.5]) by relay.linkdesign.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA29069 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:32:13 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from michael@localhost) by bsd.linkdesign.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04736; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:29:13 +0300 (EEST) From: Michael Bielicki Message-ID: <19970414142911.11509@linkdesign.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:29:11 +0300 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Looking for ISP with SMP experience Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=5Pyd7+fXNt84Ff3A X-Mailer: Mutt 0.68 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --5Pyd7+fXNt84Ff3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi there, any ISP using FreeBSD current ??? -- Michael Bielicki Link Design International Ltd. Buisnetco Telecommunications Ltd. 65 Cliff Road, Tramore, Office 23, 13, Iras Street Co. Waterford, Ireland Nicosia 1061, Rep. of Cyprus Tel: +353-51-390880 We use FreeBSD Tel: +357 2 362 421 Fax: +353 51 386921 http://www.linkdesign.com Fax: +357 2 362 429 --5Pyd7+fXNt84Ff3A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Comment: Requires PGP version 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBM1IVB8neSpf+YTVhAQE2kgQAqqWBbbxL2oapBMw6WEDrVANM8+A52nYN FykJ1cdGj1qQzxmODKrQhR1x5hPGbdUFI5owdBAnCxwY91C1e4LPgQo9D0AjBh54 LUNHiEM7VAWyg/F3A0A727bqNGIw1CBdi2ZflQKYqToASNvJvVzM4epfWoyI9Cim GG3zyalITAA= =dUfS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5Pyd7+fXNt84Ff3A-- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 04:55:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA06822 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06816 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02031 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:01:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:01:03 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: trouble with xfree In-Reply-To: <28506.860823398@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Back up and reinstall. You can't increase the size of a partition > after it's got a filesystem on it. Oh, it worked for me, no doubt I'll be crashing lots when it gets nearly full then =) -- Steve Roome Technical Systems Manager, Vision Interactive Ltd. E: steve@visint.co.uk M: +44 (0) 976 241 342 T: +44 (0) 117 973 0597 F: +44 (0) 117 923 8522 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 05:22:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA08132 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.warp.co.uk (root@mail.warp.co.uk [194.207.68.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA08127 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from temp1.warp.co.uk (temp1.warp.co.uk [194.207.68.11]) by mail.warp.co.uk with SMTP id NAA12486; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:22:06 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970414131701.0068bbcc@mail.warp.co.uk> X-Sender: tony@mail.warp.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:17:01 +0100 To: Vincent Poy , Anthony Barlow From: Anthony Barlow Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970413203248.006a4cd0@mail.warp.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:49 14-04-97 -0700, Vincent Poy wrote: >On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Anthony Barlow wrote: > >> > Speaking about terminal servers, is there anyway to restrict it to >> >just allow ppp and telnet? >> >> Use radius and tell the ports that they are secure. Then in the users entry >> simple say that they are a network user for ppp, or telnet/rlogin for shell. > > How does radius work exactly? It just like a normal login. >And then is there a way to limit >the telnet/rlogin to be able to telnet to only certain machines? Yes. In your config for that user in the radius users file you put userid Password "UNIX" User-Service-Type = Login User, Login-Host = the machine to log them into Login-Service = Rlogin For a ppp user it's userid Password "UNIX" User-Service-Type = Framed-User, Framed-Protocol = PPP, Framed-Address = 255.255.255.254, < Assigned IP number from pool or specify IP no Framed-Netmask = 255.255.255.255, Framed-Filter = "internet", < for filters & firewall etc. Framed-Routing = Brodcast-Listen, < we have another class c for dialup lines Framed-MTU = 1500 >Someone >mentioned something about a diskless FreeBSD box, anyone know how these >work and would the diskless box need to be locally connected to a actual >FreeBSD server or can it be done remotely? Sorry can't help with this one. Regards, Anthony From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 05:55:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09496 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09491 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA03971; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:55:14 -0700 (PDT) To: Vincent Poy cc: John-Mark Gurney , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Apr 1997 03:12:27 PDT." Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:55:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3968.861022514@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences > between the AMD and the Intel? Geeze, Vince, you're doing it again - asking everyone here questions you could easily find out for yourself. VISIT THE FRIGGIN' AMD WEB SITE ALREADY! :-) You're filling up my mailbox with this "daddy, why is the sky blue?" line of questioning! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 05:57:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA09590 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from destiny.waverider.co.uk (destiny.waverider.co.uk [194.207.28.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09581 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 05:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zephania.waverider.net.uk (zephania.waverider.net.uk [194.207.28.99]) by destiny.waverider.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA09066; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:53:32 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970414134856.00829500@waverider.net.uk> X-Sender: andyc@waverider.net.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:48:57 +0100 To: Maartje van der Heide , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Andy Cowan Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:04 14/04/97 +0200, Maartje van der Heide wrote: >Now, is this just bad luck, since we had the micropolis harddisks >working for one and half year without a single problem? >The rotational speed is 7200 rpm, is it too much for a newsmachine >(will it heat up too much) ? Or will there be no problem when I >buy a separate box to hold (and cool) the disks? > We had three of the Microps fail with 12 months of having them (in our newsserver). Same symptoms, grinding noise, suspected failed bearings. Microp took them back without a fuss, implying to me that the problem was known. Switched to Conners, haven't had any problem since :-) Andy Andy Cowan Tel: 01564 795888 Technical Director Fax: 01564 795177 Wave Rider Internet plc http://www.waverider.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 06:04:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA09954 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.dnsserver.com (qmailr@[208.14.0.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA09948 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 14 Apr 1997 11:18:08 -0000 Received: from www8.clever.net (root@206.31.79.1) by smtp.clever.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1997 10:56:12 -0000 Received: from high.voltage.net (arkylady@arky.voltage.net [208.15.104.34]) by www8.clever.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24854 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970413162917.006a21cc@web-trends.com> X-Sender: arkysaw@web-trends.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:29:20 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Susie Ward Subject: Dialups work finally! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone for all your help!!! I finally went down and bought another kind of modem just so I could decide if it was my cyclades card, cables, modem or ppp/getty setup that was the cause of my week in "Dialup Hell"(tm). Hooked up the other modem, turned it on, set it to ATS0=1 and tried to dial in and it connected perfectly first try. I've had 6 other people try to dial in (some from 2000 miles away even) and all of them were able to connect great (except one 14.4 modem that Zoom didnt seem to like). That is enough to convince me that the Sportsters (at least the 8 I have) are the problem. The modem I got to test with was a Zoom, I've heard they arent very widely compatible and have other problems and I didnt get it because that's what I intend to use, I got it because that was the only external available here locally besides Sportsters. So does anyone have any other suggestions (besides Couriers, I'm checking into pricing on those, but not sure if I can afford them, if I can that will most likely be what I go with)? I know that opinions on what modems to use vary greatly, but I would like to hear any problems/successes any of you have had with certain ones so I will know which ones to definitely avoid and which ones to check into. Thanks, Susie From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 06:06:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA10067 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10062 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA04083; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:06:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Stephen Roome cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: trouble with xfree In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:01:03 BST." Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:06:31 -0700 Message-ID: <4080.861023191@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Back up and reinstall. You can't increase the size of a partition > > after it's got a filesystem on it. > > Oh, it worked for me, no doubt I'll be crashing lots when it gets nearly > full then =) Uh... WHAT worked for you? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 06:14:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA10533 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10524 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA18430; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:14:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id IAA05282; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:14:30 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199704141314.IAA05282@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine? To: maartje@simplex.nl (Maartje van der Heide) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 8:14:28 CDT Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, maartje@simplex.nl In-Reply-To: <199704141004.MAA13222@xs1.simplex.nl> from "Maartje van der Heide" at Apr 14, 97 12:04:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, is this just bad luck, since we had the micropolis harddisks > working for one and half year without a single problem? > The rotational speed is 7200 rpm, is it too much for a newsmachine > (will it heat up too much) ? Or will there be no problem when I > buy a separate box to hold (and cool) the disks? As much as anything is up to chance and luck where hard drives are concerned, I've had rather bad luck with the 3243's as well, and would not consider buying one for most applications - particularly news. I _really_ like the Seagate Hawk drives. You can probably get a pair of Hawk 2GB's for the same price as the 3243, and they'll be faster overall. I use the 1GB variety, but the 2GB'ers seem to be the same... I've seen one failure out of sixty or eighty of the 1GB drives in the last year, IIRC. They run cool, even if you don't cool them properly. You don't have to worry like you do about the Barra's. (The new Barra's run almost as cool, however). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 07:38:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18135 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.dnsserver.com (qmailr@[208.14.0.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA18126 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 07:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 14 Apr 1997 11:49:22 -0000 Received: from www8.clever.net (root@206.31.79.1) by smtp.clever.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1997 10:56:12 -0000 Received: from high.voltage.net (arkylady@arky.voltage.net [208.15.104.34]) by www8.clever.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA22607 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970412210934.006993a4@web-trends.com> X-Sender: arkysaw@web-trends.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:09:36 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Susie Ward Subject: It finally works!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wanted to say a BIG thank you to everyone on this list that offered me help with my dialup problems. I finally decided to go to Best Buy (my only almost local choice to buy computer stuff, and that's 70 miles! Yeah, I live in da boonies) and try a different modem and see what happened since nothing else seemed to help. I got a Zoom 33.6 modem and came home, switched the modems, set it with ATS0=1 and tried to log on, worked like a CHARM! First try, no problems, connected right up at 51600. So that pretty much proves to me that it WAS the Sportsters all this time and not my configuration (and yeah, I know sportsters work for some people great, but 50 init strings later, I hate them regardless). That's distressing considering the hell I've been thru this whole week, anyway it does work now. The guy I bought the modems from "thinks" he may be able to take them back since it's only been like two weeks or so, they have a 30 day return policy I've had at least 10 different people successfully logon several times each and the Zoom has only failed once! That was with someone on a 14.4, so I'm not sure, probably need to adjust something somewhere. Does anyone use Zoom's? Is there anything special they need in the init? I'm gonna search around, see what I can find out :) Susie - Excited about her (for now) one line ISP :D From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 08:36:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21276 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21270 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24896; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:36:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Vincent Poy cc: John-Mark Gurney , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > Hmm, will a K5 run as well as a P5 though? Since it might be > > > faster but what about compatibility issues? As for the ethernet card, > > > > well... as I said I haven't any personal experience... I think I heard > > that it works perfectly fine... Same Here. > Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences > between the AMD and the Intel? The AMD doesn't do floating point as fast as Intel, but unlike Cyrix, it does let you interleave FP and integer ops for efficiency. Oh, and the K6 seems to be getting well-received. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 08:56:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22842 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.medinet.si (root@server.medinet.si [193.77.234.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22826 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by server.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/970403) with UUCP id RAA23377; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:56:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from blaz@localhost) by gold.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/960929) id RAA00293; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:52:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Blaz Zupan Message-Id: <199704141552.RAA00293@gold.medinet.si> Subject: Re: Dialups work finally! In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970413162917.006a21cc@web-trends.com> from Susie Ward at "Apr 13, 97 04:29:20 pm" To: webmaster@web-trends.com (Susie Ward) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:52:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > locally besides Sportsters. So does anyone have any other suggestions > (besides Couriers, I'm checking into pricing on those, but not sure if I > can afford them, if I can that will most likely be what I go with)? I know > that opinions on what modems to use vary greatly, but I would like to hear > any problems/successes any of you have had with certain ones so I will know > which ones to definitely avoid and which ones to check into. I am currently using a mix of Couriers and Sportsters. Users did not have any problems with connections to any of the above. The only problem is that sometimes the Sportsters simply hang and don't accept dialup connections anymore or change the baud rate (so you get noise on your screen), etc. and sometimes not even turning them off helps, you have to reinit and reset them. This never happened with a Courier. So I would definitely NOT recommend a Sportster as an ISP dialup modem, especially not the Voice version, because this one is even more flaky (we have some of those because the normal ones were not available and we needed them badly). I'm switching to a Livingston Portmaster 3 right now and hope to get rid of all those modems ASAP :) -- Blaz Zupan, blaz.zupan@medinet.si, http://www.medinet.si/~blaz Medinet d.o.o., Linhartova 21, 2000 Maribor, Slovenia From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 08:58:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23036 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.medinet.si (root@server.medinet.si [193.77.234.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23029 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by server.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/970403) with UUCP id RAA23392; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:56:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from blaz@localhost) by gold.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/960929) id RAA00271; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:45:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Blaz Zupan Message-Id: <199704141545.RAA00271@gold.medinet.si> Subject: Re: terminal server with PPP & TACACS or Radius In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Apr 14, 97 09:02:10 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:45:39 +0200 (CEST) Cc: rg@plusline.de, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Find me the source code for a tacacs or radius client, and I'll integrate > it into pppd. Note that I need the *client*. I have a radius server A radius client is included with the Merit radius server on ftp.merit.edu. -- Blaz Zupan, blaz.zupan@medinet.si, http://www.medinet.si/~blaz Medinet d.o.o., Linhartova 21, 2000 Maribor, Slovenia From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 09:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23261 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay2.mail.uk.psi.net (sys1.london.uk.psi.net [154.32.108.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23232 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.14]) by relay2.mail.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id RAA04054; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:00:07 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id QAA03913; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:45:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10809; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:20:57 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970414131637.006c579c@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:16:37 +0100 To: Ernie Elu , freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 23:03 12/04/97 +1000, Ernie Elu wrote: >Does anyone have any suggestions how I might construct a Virtual Private >Network with an encrypted data stream? I'm pretty sure you can do this with SOCKS. Robin. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 09:36:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25619 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25611 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.1]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05641; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:42:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:42:03 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: trouble with xfree In-Reply-To: <4080.861023191@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Back up and reinstall. You can't increase the size of a partition > > > after it's got a filesystem on it. > > > > Oh, it worked for me, no doubt I'll be crashing lots when it gets nearly > > full then =) > > Uh... WHAT worked for you? :-) Uh sorry, must've been asleep when I wrote that, it was about changing the size of a partition after the filesystem was added. Somehow I managed this last week when I split a 60MB partition into two with the first half of it glued on the end of my /usr and the last half as swap. (The swap bit wasn't a problem obviously). Not sure about how I managed this, but df seems to have the correct idea and nothing complains either when getting geometries/fsck/mounting. I Must've been very lucky, well, it wasn't an important computer and it seemed like a fun thing to try and do =) -- Steve Roome Technical Systems Manager, Vision Interactive Ltd. E: steve@visint.co.uk M: +44 (0) 976 241 342 T: +44 (0) 117 973 0597 F: +44 (0) 117 923 8522 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 11:03:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02557 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02543 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA01807; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3352707F.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:59:27 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > > > > Right now, login uses /etc/pwd.db for authentication. Some people have > > > hacked login to act as a RADIUS client too I believe. But what about > > > TACACS? And what about PAM? > > > > Hmm, what is PAM used for since TACACS is what Cisco uses I think. > > PAM is something SUN invented and I think it means Pluggable > Authentication Modules. It has also been implemented on RedHat Linux > so that is probably the best source of detailled info at this time. > > Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting > Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 > http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com the MIT PAM (as seen in linux) is also available under BSD licence.. there was a talk on it at USENIX in Jan. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 12:35:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08814 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smyrno.sol.net (smyrno.sol.net [206.55.64.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08809 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by smyrno.sol.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA24066; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:35:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id OAA07048; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:35:20 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199704141935.OAA07048@solaria.sol.net> Subject: IP Filter ... To: ipfilter@coombs.anu.edu.au, isp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 14:35:18 CDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am tearing my hair out a little... I've been using a slightly modified version of ipfw for quite some time but have been looking at ipfilter as a solution for some scenarios. I typically install fairly complex filters, and I can not find a way to duplicate the functionality with ipfilter. My problem seems to revolve around my inability to either control the order of processing within the chain, or what could be considered a minor deficiency in the filter rules: a lack of negation. Let me explain what I want to be able to do: My typical firewall is composed of three (potentially overlapping) logical sets of directives: "bad stuff" trapping, "spoofing" trapping, and "local policy" trapping. If a packet fails any one of the three test stanzas, I want to drop it hard on the floor. For example... a router's configuration might look something like this (LINK_IFC is the address of the point-to-point link to the outside world, GATEWAY_IFC is the address of the router on the local net): # ----- IP Bad Address Prevention Section ----- # Block RFC1597 "Private Internets" (inbound) block in quick on ${LINK_IFC} from 10.0.0.0/8 to any block in quick on ${LINK_IFC} from 172.16.0.0/12 to any block in quick on ${LINK_IFC} from 192.168.0.0/16 to any # Block other "Shouldn't Exist" Internets (inbound) block in quick on ${LINK_IFC} from 127.0.0.0/8 to any block in quick on ${LINK_IFC} from 0.0.0.0/8 to any # Block RFC1597 "Private Internets" as Source Address (outbound) block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from 10.0.0.0/8 to any block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from 172.16.0.0/12 to any block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from 192.168.0.0/16 to any # Block RFC1597 "Private Internets" as Destination Address (outbound) block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to 10.0.0.0/8 block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to 172.16.0.0/12 block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to 192.168.0.0/16 # Block other "Shouldn't Exist" Internets as Source Address (outbound) block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from 127.0.0.0/8 to any block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from 0.0.0.0/8 to any # Block other "Shouldn't Exist" Internets as Destination Address (outbound) block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to 127.0.0.0/8 block in quick on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to 0.0.0.0/8 # # ----- IP Spoofing Prevention Section ----- # Block inbound pkts from addresses "on" my net (inbound) # (add as many lines as needed) block in on ${LINK_IFC} from ${ADDRESS_BLOCK} to any # Disallow all Source Addresses (outbound) block in on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from any to any # Only allow outbound pkts from addresses "on" my net (outbound) # (add as many lines as needed) pass in on ${GATEWAY_IFC} from ${ADDRESS_BLOCK} to any # Disallow all Destination Addresses (inbound) block in on ${LINK_IFC} from any to any # Only allow inbound pkts to addresses "on" my net (inbound) # (add as many lines as needed) pass in on ${LINK_IFC} from any to ${LINK_IFC} pass in on ${LINK_IFC} from any to ${ADDRESS_BLOCK} # # ----- Local Policy Section ----- ... This is enough to demonstrate my problem, however. The first section, "bad address" rejection, can be handled in a mildly roundabout way by using "quick" to always terminate rule processing as soon as we detect something bad. The mess starts in the second section, with the second rule. (I am quite aware that some of these rules overlap with previous rules.) I stop all packets leaving my network, but then on the next line(s) I explicitly allow packets with a source address that originated on my net to pass. No problem. Then I do the same thing for inbound destination addresses. I think that I am still fine. However, now, think about what any local policy additions would do to the state of a packet that would otherwise have been blocked. pass in on any port domain to any port domain as a somewhat useless example. If someone on the local ethernet were spoofing DNS, this would short-circuit the previous determination that the packet was illegitimate. (Yes, I know I could qualify the addresses in that line, but that gets complex rather quickly in a nontrivial configuration). I think what I am really looking for is a rule that simply checks the current state of the packet at a given point in the rule processing list and if it is set a particular way, terminates rule processing. Or, maybe, better yet, some sort of "goto" conditional. I come from a digital logic background and I can trivially translate a complex logic equation of this sort into a decision tree, but one needs to have some control... I can sort of work around this in a limited fashion, for simple configurations, but on a router where I have a dozen interfaces, and I do not trust the customer on the other end of a wire, I would really REALLY like to be able to write rules to do this sort of stuff without it becoming a challenge in complexity. Comments or ideas are welcome. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 12:41:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09271 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blah.rotterdam.luna.net (blah.rotterdam.luna.net [194.151.24.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09260 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from stefan@localhost) by blah.rotterdam.luna.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA26996; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:40:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970414214007.22084@blah.rotterdam.luna.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:40:07 +0200 From: Stefan Arentz To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. References: <3968.861022514@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 Organization: Luna Internet In-Reply-To: <3968.861022514@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Apr 04, 1997 at 05:55:14AM -0700 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Apr 04, 1997 at 05:55:14AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Hmm, besides not being an Intel, what is the main differences > > between the AMD and the Intel? > > Geeze, Vince, you're doing it again - asking everyone here questions > you could easily find out for yourself. VISIT THE FRIGGIN' AMD WEB > SITE ALREADY! :-) > > You're filling up my mailbox with this "daddy, why is the sky blue?" > line of questioning! :) Well, that's easy Jordan :) The sky's blueness is due to a litany of factors. The most important of these are a phenomenon known as scattering, our atmosphere's composition, and the sun's spectral output. Scattering, simply defined, is when light hitting a volume of air is reflected out of the air, as opposed to being absorbed or just passing through. The light bounces off of individual air particles in random directions, scattering, and making that air appear the color of the light being scattered. Preferential light scattering means that some colors of light scatter better, while other colors tend only to pass through. Lord Rayleigh, a 19th century British physicist, first explained preferential light scattering. (Sir Isaac Newton first established the phenomenon's existence.) Common air particle diameters are 1 micron (micrometer), .1 micron, and .01 micron. (Keep this in mind when reading the following statement.) "Rayleigh's Law indicates that the light energy scattered per unit volume of air containing particles smaller than .1 micron is inversely proportional to the 4th power of the wavelength of the illuminating radiation (Schaeffer 155)": lambda 14E1scattered = lambda 24E2scattered More simply stated, the amount of light that bounces around in our air increases as the wavelength (which is related to color) of the light decreases. Below are some common wavelengths of light and their perceived colors. COLOR WAVELENGTH (In um) UV 0.30- violet 0.40 blue 0.45 green 0.50 red 0.60+ IR 1.0++ wavelength chart Applying Rayleigh's Law, consider the scattering of red and blue light. Plugging into the equation blue light, with a common wavelength of .45m, and red light, with .75m being common, we get a ratio between the scattering of the two of (.44)-1:(.74)-1, or about 10:1. This means that if a volume of air is lit by blue and red light simultaneously, the amount of blue light scattered (reflected) to the eye will overpower the red by a factor of ten, effectively drowning out the latter. (See illustration next page.) Lastly, the sun's spectral output has a significant effect on the sky's color. ". . . Almost the whole of the sun's output is in waves of length between .17 microns and 4 microns. . . . The maximum intensity of sunlight is in radiation of wavelength about .5 microns. The human eye responds only to waves between .4 and .7 microns, so that the peak intensity occurs in the middle of the visible range, the blue-green part of the solar spectrum (Sutton 7). . . ." Taking into account that the sun's brightest light is blue-green, blue's preferential scattering is magnified. What would make the sky other colors, and when? Several key factors might turn its color, including more or less atmosphere, changes in the sun, more dust content, and more water vapor. First, consider the normal changes you see in the sky's color everyday. ". . . When the sun's rays come more slantingly through the layers of the atmosphere [at sunrise or sunset], othersred, orange, yellow, greenare scattered at the horizon (Stetson). . . ." More atmosphere would tend to reduce this effect, while less atmosphere would make those bands wider. Also, the albedo ("... The fraction of the solar radiation that is reflected [back] . . ." (Neiburger 56)) would vary with the amount of atmosphere. If the atmosphere was thicker, more light would be reflected back into space, making the sky darker; if it was thinner, more light would be allowed in, resulting in a brighter sky. This factor is not likely to change, however, as no credible proposal for any significant change in atmospheric volume has been proposed. Eventually, the sun will degenerate into a white dwarf, at which point its energy output will drop steadily until it becomes a black dwarf, giving off no energy. Though neither will occur for billions of years to come, these two events will put a serious damper on the blueness of the sky. Realistically, we are having the greater effect on color changes. The sky is whiter with increased dust content, and other pollution makes it both whiter and more like the color of the pollution. . . . Small particles like molecules scatter a larger proportion of the short-wave radiation, the blue and violet light, than the longer-wave yellow and red light. That is the reason the sky is blue in the absence of haze or smog. Haze, fog, and smog contain larger particles, which scatter more nearly equally in all wavelengths. When they are present, the sky tends to be white, particularly near the horizon, except when smog with absorptive properties gives it a yellow or brownish color. (Neiburger 56) A large asteroid colliding with the earth could stir up enough dust to occult the sky (as has been proposed to have caused the dinosaurs' fate). Also, widespread nuclear war, accompanied with widespread fallout, might alter the sky's color. The biggest contributor to this factor right now, though, is pollution, which tints the skies above industrial centers around the world. A rise in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere would both make the sky whiter and more prone to rainbows. ". . . Humid air and bright sunlight sometimes break up into all colors to form a rainbow" (Stetson). If global warming turns out to be an actual issue, and the conjecture concerning melting polar caps is true, then the water content of our atmosphere would increase greatly, and the sky's color would probably change as just described. Would plants and humans survive if it (the sky) were a different color? Yes and no. The temperature prerequisites for global warming and increasing water vapor (the White Sky problem) pose problems in themselves, numerous problems about which books have been written. These temperatures would have to being going up at least several degrees, which could have many devastating effects. For now, suffice it to say that ". . . The water vapor in the air is . . . all-important for the maintenance of surface temperature (Sutton 17). . . ." Plants require only respiration (and water) to live. Plants do, however, need light to grow. If the sunlight were blocked (the Black Sky problem), new plants could not grow, and the old ones that die would not be replaced. Additionally, some plants incorporate infrared or ultraviolet color schemes into their patterns to attract insects and promote pollination. If the sky passed no IR or UV rays to them (the No-IR/UV Sky problem), they could not reflect these colors and perform those functions. Luckily, none of these cataclysmic possibilities seems likely. Lastly, and most importantly, is the occurrence of skin cancer in humans (the Too-Much-UV Sky problem). Tied in loosely with global warming, ". . . Ozone is opaque to all solar radiation of wavelength less than .3 microns, and no ultraviolet light of wavelength shorter than this is received at sea level (Sutton 9). . . ." If too much ozone is depleted, or people spend too much time on the beach, entering UV rays can cause skin cancer, the most prevalent cancer among U.S. men and women ("Cancer"). "Only about half of the output of the sun can be seen by us, but we feel the radiation in the solar beam over a much wider range of wavelength" (Sutton 7). Why did God make the sky blue? The factorsour planet's position, our atmosphere's composition, preferential scattering, our sun's output, our eye's spectrum, our oceans' regulation, etc.balance perfectly to land blue as the color. The possibilities of it being any other color and working correctly are remote. The manner in which the sky is blue is very important to our survival. Is this all just coincidence, or does all this point to His divine hand? Why is the sky blue? He simply made it that way; everyone knows that blue is the ideal color. Works Cited "Cancer (disease)." The Software Toolworks Multimedia Encyclopedia. 1992 ed. Neiburger, Morris, et al. Understanding Our Atmospheric Environment. San Francisco: W.H. Freeman and Company Schaeffer, Vincent J. and John A. Day. A Field Guide to the Atmosphere. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1981. Stetson, Harlan T. "Atmosphere." The New Book of Popular Science, vol. 2. 1988 ed. Sutton, O.G. The Challenge of the Atmosphere. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1961. ------ Copyright 1996, by Chris Campbell . All rights reserved. http://www.spacecoast.net/users/dcampbell/chris/whyblue.htm From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 12:57:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09994 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09988 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06211; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT) To: Stefan Arentz cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:40:07 +0200." <19970414214007.22084@blah.rotterdam.luna.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:57:37 -0700 Message-ID: <6208.861047857@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, that's easy Jordan :) > > The sky's blueness is due to a litany of factors. The most important > of these are a phenomenon known as scattering, our atmosphere's > composition, and the sun's spectral output. That's the scientific explanation. The real reason is because it reflects the sea. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 13:34:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12448 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12428 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from maartje@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5-RS) id WAA19302; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Maartje van der Heide Message-Id: <199704142030.WAA19302@xs1.simplex.nl> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, stefan.arentz@luna.net Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey.. cut the bullshit, this is my favourite mailinglist, don't spoil it please. Maartje From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 14:25:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15314 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15306 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00570; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Anthony Barlow cc: Anthony Barlow , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970414131701.0068bbcc@mail.warp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Anthony Barlow wrote: > > How does radius work exactly? > > It just like a normal login. Interesting, I've been used to TACACS I guess. > >And then is there a way to limit > >the telnet/rlogin to be able to telnet to only certain machines? > > Yes. In your config for that user in the radius users file you put Interesting. Is Radius actually a shell or something you need to add to a stock FreeBSD machine? Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 14:27:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15427 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15417 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00588; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John-Mark Gurney , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some advice needed. In-Reply-To: <3968.861022514@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Geeze, Vince, you're doing it again - asking everyone here questions > you could easily find out for yourself. VISIT THE FRIGGIN' AMD WEB > SITE ALREADY! :-) I did that already Jordan =) The only problem with visiting any manufacturers homepage is that you really get the marketing laid on you since they will always say their product is better. =) > You're filling up my mailbox with this "daddy, why is the sky blue?" > line of questioning! :) Hehe, and I think someone just answered that question too! =) Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 15:59:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21528 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starbase.globalpc.net (agonzalez@[207.211.100.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA21523 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from agonzalez@localhost) by starbase.globalpc.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA06859; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:04:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:04:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Adrian Gonzalez To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: RADIUS Menus and USR Total Control Netserver Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I have a question We run a local ISP, and have three pools of 16 modems, two of which are rackmount BOCA modems (2x16), connected via Digiboards to a BSD box. The third is a US Robotics Total Control Netserver. Now, the problem is I need to support some sort of login menu on both... like: login: foo password: *** Welcome.. blah blah choose your service p) ppp s) slip Response: I've tested two versions of RADIUS, one from Ascend, and one from Livingston. The Livingston one works great with menus, but is to be used only with Livingston equipment. I downloaded and compiled the Merit version of RADIUS from the ports collection, but it doesn't seem to support menus. Has anybody modified the Merit version of RADIUS to allow this? I would like to use Merit RADIUS because I can get the source code for it, as I need to tweak some minor details, however, adding menu support would be a major pain. In fact, I would be happy if I could just display some text after the user has logged in, and ask a dumb string from the user. The reason for this is that before we got the USR NetServer, most of our users had dial scripts that waited for a shell prompt and sent the 'ppp' command there. We don't really have SLIP users anymore, so I could really care less what the user types, but the prompt has to be there, or else we're going to have to start a massive dial script modifying 'campaign', and being that our average user has no clue as to how to go about this, it could turn out to be quite troublesome. As for USR, I've yet to get an answer for them on wether they have ported their RADIUS server to FreeBSD yet, but everything I've read in the mailing list archives suggests they haven't. Thanks for any help you can provide. -Adrian Gonzalez -System Administrator -GPC Net From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 16:13:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22358 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vic.cioe.com (vic.cioe.com [204.120.165.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22353 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from steve@localhost) by vic.cioe.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15757 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:13:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:13:52 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Ames Message-Id: <199704142313.SAA15757@vic.cioe.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: msql Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone port beta 6 yet? It seems to compile (unlike beta 5), but some features don't seem to work anymore. *sigh* So far beta 4 (the one in the ports directory) seems the most stable. Perhaps this is because I didn't port betas 5 and 6 correctly? -Steve From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 16:29:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23772 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plum.cyber.com.au (plum.cyber.com.au [203.7.155.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23766 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from darrenr@localhost) by plum.cyber.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA03036; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:28:00 +1000 From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199704142328.JAA03036@plum.cyber.com.au> Subject: Re: IP Filter ... To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:27:59 +1000 (EST) Cc: ipfilter@postbox.anu.edu.au, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704141935.OAA07048@solaria.sol.net> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 14, 97 02:35:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail I received from Joe Greco, sie wrote [...] > My problem seems to revolve around my inability to either control the > order of processing within the chain, or what could be considered a > minor deficiency in the filter rules: a lack of negation. [...] > The first section, "bad address" rejection, can be handled in a mildly > roundabout way by using "quick" to always terminate rule processing as > soon as we detect something bad. > > The mess starts in the second section, with the second rule. (I am quite > aware that some of these rules overlap with previous rules.) > > I stop all packets leaving my network, but then on the next line(s) > I explicitly allow packets with a source address that originated on > my net to pass. No problem. > > Then I do the same thing for inbound destination addresses. I think that > I am still fine. > > However, now, think about what any local policy additions would do to > the state of a packet that would otherwise have been blocked. > > pass in on any port domain to any port domain > > as a somewhat useless example. If someone on the local ethernet were > spoofing DNS, this would short-circuit the previous determination that > the packet was illegitimate. (Yes, I know I could qualify the addresses > in that line, but that gets complex rather quickly in a nontrivial > configuration). "Spoof" which DNS ? I can't see that there is any option (here) to putting addresses in. > I think what I am really looking for is a rule that simply checks the > current state of the packet at a given point in the rule processing list > and if it is set a particular way, terminates rule processing. I don't quite get what you're saying here. > Or, maybe, better yet, some sort of "goto" conditional. I come from a > digital logic background and I can trivially translate a complex logic > equation of this sort into a decision tree, but one needs to have some > control... Can you illustrate how negation/goto would help you here ? Darren From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 14 17:31:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27397 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27386 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id TAA00459; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:30:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01171; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:30:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:30:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: Stephen Roome cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: trouble with xfree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd be very interested in knowing how you accomplished this. Thanks. -- Jay On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Stephen Roome wrote: ->On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: -> ->> > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: ->> > > Back up and reinstall. You can't increase the size of a partition ->> > > after it's got a filesystem on it. ->> > ->> > Oh, it worked for me, no doubt I'll be crashing lots when it gets nearly ->> > full then =) ->> ->> Uh... WHAT worked for you? :-) -> ->Uh sorry, must've been asleep when I wrote that, it was about changing ->the size of a partition after the filesystem was added. ->Somehow I managed this last week when I split a 60MB partition into two ->with the first half of it glued on the end of my /usr and the last half ->as swap. (The swap bit wasn't a problem obviously). -> ->Not sure about how I managed this, but df seems to have the correct idea ->and nothing complains either when getting geometries/fsck/mounting. -> ->I Must've been very lucky, well, it wasn't an important computer and it ->seemed like a fun thing to try and do =) -> ->-- ->Steve Roome ->Technical Systems Manager, Vision Interactive Ltd. ->E: steve@visint.co.uk M: +44 (0) 976 241 342 ->T: +44 (0) 117 973 0597 F: +44 (0) 117 923 8522 -> From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 02:14:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28143 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28138 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id EAA13307; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:15:16 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013297; Tue Apr 15 09:15:01 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415040715.00b46194@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:07:16 -0500 To: Maartje van der Heide From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:30 PM 4/14/97 +0200, Maartje van der Heide wrote: >Hey.. cut the bullshit, this is my favourite mailinglist, don't spoil it >please. Rather refreshing change of pace for a long running thread. Have to let the kids play once in a while. 8-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 02:17:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28336 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28330 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id EAA13525; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:19:17 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013519; Tue Apr 15 09:18:53 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415041108.00b43b6c@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:11:09 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:57 PM 4/14/97 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Well, that's easy Jordan :) >> >> The sky's blueness is due to a litany of factors. The most important >> of these are a phenomenon known as scattering, our atmosphere's >> composition, and the sun's spectral output. > >That's the scientific explanation. The real reason is because it >reflects the sea. :-) Isn't it the due the sea that evaporated? No sun involved. It's yellow! .... the sea is blue... it evaporates.... "Daddy, why isn't the sky green?" ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 02:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA28500 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28494 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id EAA13761; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:23:17 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013755; Tue Apr 15 09:22:47 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415041502.00b46194@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:15:03 -0500 To: Stefan Arentz From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:40 PM 4/14/97 +0200, Stefan Arentz wrote: >On Apr 04, 1997 at 05:55:14AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> You're filling up my mailbox with this "daddy, why is the sky blue?" >> line of questioning! :) > >Well, that's easy Jordan :) > > The sky's blueness is due to a litany of factors. The most important > of these are a phenomenon known as scattering, our atmosphere's > composition, and the sun's spectral output. You don't mention anything about wave/particle theory, which would be very pertient and shorter. An "A" for effort, but "B-" for an overall grade. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 03:03:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA00523 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA00513 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id FAA16213; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 05:04:22 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016194; Tue Apr 15 10:04:11 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415045626.00b5845c@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:56:27 -0500 To: Adrian Gonzalez From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: RADIUS Menus and USR Total Control Netserver Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:04 PM 4/14/97 -0500, Adrian Gonzalez wrote: >I've tested two versions of RADIUS, one from Ascend, and one from >Livingston. The Livingston one works great with menus, but is to be used >only with Livingston equipment. I downloaded and compiled the Merit >version of RADIUS from the ports collection, but it doesn't seem to >support menus. You only need one piece of Livingston equipment that can use RADIUS or is it just one LV unit period? >Has anybody modified the Merit version of RADIUS to allow this? I would >like to use Merit RADIUS because I can get the source code for it, as I >need to tweak some minor details, however, adding menu support would be a >major pain. In fact, I would be happy if I could just display some text >after the user has logged in, and ask a dumb string from the user. The >reason for this is that before we got the USR NetServer, most of our >users had dial scripts that waited for a shell prompt and sent the 'ppp' >command there. We don't really have SLIP users anymore, so I could >really care less what the user types, but the prompt has to be there, or >else we're going to have to start a massive dial script modifying >'campaign', and being that our average user has no clue as to how to go >about this, it could turn out to be quite troublesome. Not sure if Merit has the diffs needed to convert LV RADIUS 2.0 yet. You can ask William Bulley (web@merit.edu), but I haven't seen anything on the Livinston list lately about Merit. This may be all moot regardless if you can't use LV. Personally I would go for the script conversion. How many really use it? One could guess (wrong possibly) that those using scripts have enough know how, but does everyone use them? Not fun, but options confuse, so we avoided such a mess. Now if I can get our last SLIP users to PPP. >As for USR, I've yet to get an answer for them on wether they have ported >their RADIUS server to FreeBSD yet, but everything I've read in the >mailing list archives suggests they haven't. Bwahahaha! Sorry, but I tend to get a bit irked by USR policies and home the 3Com buyout helps things. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 03:17:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA01137 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA01129 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id FAA17066; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 05:17:23 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017057; Tue Apr 15 10:17:19 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415050934.00b5f3fc@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 05:09:35 -0500 To: Joe Greco From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine? Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:14 AM 4/14/97 CDT, Joe Greco wrote: >As much as anything is up to chance and luck where hard drives are >concerned, I've had rather bad luck with the 3243's as well, and would >not consider buying one for most applications - particularly news. I've only had one Mic die (4217) and the news box lives on only Seagates. >I _really_ like the Seagate Hawk drives. You can probably get a pair >of Hawk 2GB's for the same price as the 3243, and they'll be faster >overall. I use the 1GB variety, but the 2GB'ers seem to be the same... >I've seen one failure out of sixty or eighty of the 1GB drives >in the last year, IIRC. They run cool, even if you don't cool >them properly. You don't have to worry like you do about the Barra's. I'm a Hawk fan myself... and I like the new ones. >(The new Barra's run almost as cool, however). ... but there older 2Gb cudas run hot, while the 4Gb are much cooler. One 2Gb cuda is a bit iffy now, but it's just news. Oops! Did I say that? 8-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 03:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA01195 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.nl (charon.cvi.ns.nl [145.15.15.97]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA01190 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from donar.cvi.ns.nl (donar.cvi.ns.nl [145.15.15.7]) by ns.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA25047; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:18:30 GMT Message-Id: <199704151218.MAA25047@ns.nl> Received: by donar.cvi.ns.nl (1.37.109.8/16.2 NS/CVI) id AA02727; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:17:03 +0200 From: Marc Albers Subject: Re: Some advice needed. To: sysop@mixcom.com (Jeffrey J. Mountin) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:17:02 METDST Cc: maartje@xs1.simplex.nl, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970415040715.00b46194@mixcom.com>; from "Jeffrey J. Mountin" at Apr 15, 97 4:07 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At 10:30 PM 4/14/97 +0200, Maartje van der Heide wrote: > >Hey.. cut the bullshit, this is my favourite mailinglist, don't spoil it > >please. > > Rather refreshing change of pace for a long running thread. > > Have to let the kids play once in a while. 8-) So Jeff, you and Maartje have kids? The first 'real' freebsd children have been forked without telling your friends on this mailing list... :-( -- Marc Albers Murphy Software Enschede "Hey, it compiles. marca@cvi.ns.nl marca@murphy.nl Ship it!" From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 06:44:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA10134 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nimbus.superior.net (root@nimbus.superior.net [206.153.96.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10125 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from exidor@localhost) by nimbus.superior.net (8.8.5/8.8.5-RB) id JAA22547; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970415094437.ZB40173@@> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:44:37 -0400 From: exidor@superior.net (Christopher Masto) To: agonzalez@starbase.globalpc.net (Adrian Gonzalez) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RADIUS Menus and USR Total Control Netserver References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Gonzalez on Apr 14, 1997 18:04:45 -0500 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adrian Gonzalez writes: > I've tested two versions of RADIUS, one from Ascend, and one from > Livingston. The Livingston one works great with menus, but is to be used > only with Livingston equipment. I downloaded and compiled the Merit > version of RADIUS from the ports collection, but it doesn't seem to > support menus. Would a set of Perl modules that implement a programmable RADIUS server be of any help? I'm about three days away from releasing it. -- Christopher Masto . . . . chris@masto.com . . . . . Masto Consulting: info@masto.com perl -e 'map{vec($x,$_>$}?$_+$y:$_+($y+=8),1)=1;$}=$_}split//,"12360123". "562456503460256245650565460256145623565360560156013560256145613";print$x' On Book Titles, Confidence-Building: "Correctly English in 100 Days" - title from an East ASian book for beginning English speakers From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 07:14:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA11507 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itu.cc.jyu.fi (root@itu.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.40.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11500; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itu.cc.jyu.fi (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA27558; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:14:25 +0300 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:14:25 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio Reply-To: Seppo Kallio To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please reply if you are running a heavy loaded News server. We have Pentium Pro 200 + 128M RAM + 3*4G IBM Wide + 2940 + 3COM 590 + Linux RedHAt 4.1 !!! running inn in heavy load and it does not work (kernel 2.0.30 not at all, kernel 2.0.27 maybe) System is slowing down and at last it hangs. What kind of experience you have about FreeBSD + inn, what is the version of inn + FreeBSD you use? Does it work? What about ccd? Linux mcd seems not to work, or maybe Linux 2940 driver has some problems (is it same as in FreeBSD). Seppo Kallio kallio@cc.jyu.fi U of Jyvaskyl Finland From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 07:55:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA13784 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indigo.ie (aoife.indigo.ie [194.125.133.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13775 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indigo.ie (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by indigo.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5/INDIGO-HUB) with ESMTP id PAA23521; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:30 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199704151455.PAA23521@indigo.ie> To: Seppo Kallio Cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-reply-to: Message from Seppo Kallio dated today at 17:14. From: Alan Judge Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:30 +0100 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running a large FreeBSD based server. It's not heavily loaded yet (two full streaming feeds in and maybe 100 readers at peak times). Load rarely climbs about 0.3. Setup: PPro 200, 256MB RAM, 8*4GB Quantum Atlas II Ultra Wide, 3940UW, SMC EtherPower 10/100. Software: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE (cvsuped kernel on 2.2.1 system), INN-1.5.1, nntplink, newsxd. All works fine, as far as I can see, but the load is not that high yet. We are taking a full feed (around 300K articles/day) without problems, and the disks are ticking over nicely. One warning though. If you are using Adaptec disk controllers, make sure to get the very latest kernel. Both 2.2.1-RELEASE and 2.1.7.1-RELEASE have Adaptec problems under load and we had some hangs and crashes before upgrading. -- Alan Judge Phone: +353-1-6046901 Indigo Internet Services Fax: +353-1-6046948 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 08:24:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA15640 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.sutd.ru (SUTD-19.2K.RUN.Net [194.85.165.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15594 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stage.sutd.RU (stage.sutd.ru [195.209.236.4]) by ns.sutd.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06527 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:54:48 +0400 (MSD) Received: from stage by stage.sutd.RU (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA08460; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:54:17 +0400 Message-ID: <33525327.72ED@sutd.ru> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:54:15 +0400 From: "Denis G. Kalashnikov" Organization: SPbSUTD X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 i86pc) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe kdg@sutd.ru From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 08:33:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA16280 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16275 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0wHAEI-00096TC; Tue, 15 Apr 97 08:33 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Odd tty behavior To: isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:33:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got a 2.1.5 system that's a dedicated slip router. On 8 or 9 ports, I basically run sliplogin with a specific configuration. I recently added a ppp line, and configured it to use the getty that recognizes ppp startup (something I want to shift the others to eventually). It has frequently, and intermittently, gone into a mode where you dial up and get a prompt, but FreeBSD sees no characters coming in. The modem is a brand new USR Courier V.Everything (on both ends of the line). Any ideas? I've never had this problem (at least I don't recall it) with the other lines. -- Alan Batie ______ It's not my fault! It's some guy batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / named "General Protection"! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Ratbert PGP FP: DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 \/ 7A 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 09:32:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19411 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smokey.prismnet.com (root@smokey.prismnet.com [205.166.246.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19396 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from greg@localhost) by smokey.prismnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03774 for isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:32:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Greg Stringfellow Message-Id: <199704151632.LAA03774@smokey.prismnet.com> Subject: NFS/Mail Questions To: isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:32:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking into building a secondary POP/mail server and would like to use NFS so that users on our shell account server can get mail. Looking at the list archives, I've seen problems reported because of the lack of file locking code in NFS. Is anyone using a similar setup like the one I'm describing above that would like to share some of the pros and cons they ran into? Did anyone think of a better way? Any information is appreciated. Greg -- Greg Stringfellow PrismNet, Inc. Network Administration WWW Pages, ISDN, Telnet, Dialup Accounts HTTP://www.prismnet.com Phone: (512)-418-1568 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 09:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19541 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19516 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id LAA17241; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:34:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704151634.LAA17241@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:34:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: kallio@cc.jyu.fi Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Please reply if you are running a heavy loaded News server. > > We have Pentium Pro 200 + 128M RAM + 3*4G IBM Wide + 2940 + 3COM 590 > > + Linux RedHAt 4.1 !!! > > running inn in heavy load and it does not work (kernel 2.0.30 not at all, > kernel 2.0.27 maybe) System is slowing down and at last it hangs. > > What kind of experience you have about FreeBSD + inn, what is the version > of inn + FreeBSD you use? > > Does it work? > > What about ccd? Linux mcd seems not to work, or maybe Linux 2940 driver > has some problems (is it same as in FreeBSD). The Linux aic7xxx driver is buggy. I'm working on bringing in the latest changes Justin made to the FreeBSD aic7xxx driver. Should have that tonight, hopefully. There are other problems in Linux, particularly with error recovery in the mid-level SCSI code. The Linux mid-level SCSI code is responsible for command timeouts, so it is hard to duplicate the error recovery Justin has built into the FreeBSD aic7xxx driver. If you're stuck on Linux, the best choice for a SCSI controller is probably the BusLogic. If you want to experiment with snapshots of the Linux aic7xxx driver, you can grab them from ftp.pcnet.com:/users/eischen/Linux/... There is an aic7xxx device driver mailing list that is multi-national (FreeBSD, Linux, NetBSD) where you can get further information. Send email to MajorDomo@FreeBSD.org with a message body of "subscribe aic7xxx" to join. Don't you want to be using FreeBSD on a heavily loaded News server though? ;-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 09:36:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19667 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-17.netcom.ca [207.181.94.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19647; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA15538; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:35:49 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:35:48 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Seppo Kallio cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Seppo Kallio wrote: > > Please reply if you are running a heavy loaded News server. > > We have Pentium Pro 200 + 128M RAM + 3*4G IBM Wide + 2940 + 3COM 590 > > + Linux RedHAt 4.1 !!! > > running inn in heavy load and it does not work (kernel 2.0.30 not at all, > kernel 2.0.27 maybe) System is slowing down and at last it hangs. > > What kind of experience you have about FreeBSD + inn, what is the version > of inn + FreeBSD you use? > > Does it work? > > What about ccd? Linux mcd seems not to work, or maybe Linux 2940 driver > has some problems (is it same as in FreeBSD). I'm running a FreeBSD 2.2 box with 96Meg of RAM and about 13 peers, with 7 drives CCD'd together over 2 NCR SCSI controllers...and am happy to report that other then a memory problem (hardware), that machine is rock solid... Oh, its a 486DX4-100, not a PPro... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 09:43:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20186 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rustler.gwc.cccd.edu (rustler.gwc.cccd.edu [159.115.129.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20180 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mpeer (mpeer.csc.gwc.cccd.edu [159.115.129.100]) by rustler.gwc.cccd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11508 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:42:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415094730.00c36d20@rustler.gwc.cccd.edu> X-Sender: mpeer@rustler.gwc.cccd.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:47:30 -0700 To: isp@freebsd.org From: Michael Peer Subject: Help with ccd driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is my first attempt to use ccd driver. The error message on boot up is: Changing root device to sd0a WARNING / was not properly dismounted ahc1: ahc_scsi_cmd: more than 32 DMA segs sd3: oops not queued biodone: buffer already done -- and then it dies right their I have 2.2.1-RELEASE. I am trying to concatenate two 4GB disks for my news spool. I have the two 4GB disks sd3 and sd4. I was able to disklabel them Ok with sd3c, and sd3e. Same with sd4c, and sd4e. I am able to do a newfs on sd3e and sd4e and mounting works. I have a ccd.conf file of: ccd0 0 none /dev/sd3e /dev/sd4e I added lines in the kernel and recompiled, you can tell from the boot message. While trying to install, the directions say to do a ccdconfig -Cv, but when I do this is gives about the same message, and hangs the session, I am able to use another virtual console and reboot the system. Any help would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Peer Data Electronics Technician I Golden West College Computer Services Center 15744 Goldenwest St. Huntington Beach, CA 92647 e-mail: mpeer@gwc.cccd.edu Voice: (714)892-7711 ext 55067 WWW: http://pioneer.gwc.cccd.edu FAX: (714)895-8980 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 10:20:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22374 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veda.is (ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22369 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA06489 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:38:13 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199704151738.RAA06489@veda.is> Subject: dialin authentication To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:38:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What various methods currently exist for remote authentication of dialin ppp users when the terminal servers are FreeBSD machines? Preferably I'd be looking for a complete user database system that is simple to maintain and operate, and for integration with i-Pass. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 10:54:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25148 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itu.cc.jyu.fi (root@itu.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.40.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25137 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itu.cc.jyu.fi (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA05771; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:54:15 +0300 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:54:15 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: <199704151634.LAA17241@iworks.InterWorks.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Daniel M. Eischen wrote: > > If you're stuck on Linux, the best choice for a SCSI controller is > probably the BusLogic. > *I* succested FreeBSD, *they* did select Linux this is Finland the homeland of Linus Torvalds - "Linux is the best country" Please help: I don't know BusLogic cards, which BusLogic modell you succest to replace aha2940W (UW?). Seppo From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:16:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA26771 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fireball.blast.net (fireball.blast.net [204.141.163.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26764 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flashpoint.blast.net (flashpoint.blast.net [204.141.163.62]) by fireball.blast.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06582 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704151817.OAA06582@fireball.blast.net> From: "Pat McPartland" To: Subject: Re: smc9332 and freeBSD 2.1.5 problems Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:12:56 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, so far I've upgraded to 2.2.1 and recompiled my kernel for device de0 device de1 controller is ncr0 I added a -link1 -link2 to my sysconfig and I get: de0: enabling 10base port de0 transmission timeout. I added a -link1 link2 , then link2, then link1 link2... Just hangs at add net default: gateway xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx Every time the link lights start as ON then as soon as de0 probe comes up the lights go OFF. What else could it be? A PCI conflict?? It doesn't seem that any sysconfig will work. Pat mcp@blast.net ---------- From: Russ Panula To: Pat McPartland Cc: Blaine Minazzi ; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: smc9332 and freeBSD 2.1.5 problems Date: Wednesday, April 09, 1997 5:14 PM Hi Pat, On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:42:37 -0400, "Pat McPartland" wrote: >These cards are PCI cards. How would I set the kernel to find these cards? > How does the kernel handle PCI? > Within your kernel config file you should be able to specify: controller pci0 device de0 device de1 And the cards should be detected. Some bios setups will let you assign IRQ's manually to the cards. Make sure you are using the correct ethernet port on the card. Try adding -link2 or link2 to your ifconfig statements. >---------- >> From: Blaine Minazzi >> To: Pat McPartland >> Subject: Re: smc9332 and freeBSD 2.1.5 problems >> Date: Wednesday, April 09, 1997 12:56 PM >> >> Pat McPartland wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > I am trying to get smc9332 10/100 cards to work in FreeBSD. They >detect as >> > de0 and de1. >> > >> > Well, first, I can't even get one to work. I set up the card as such >in >> > sysconfig: >> > network_interfaces="de0 lo0" >> > ifconfig_de0="inet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx netmask 255.255.255.0" >> > ifconfig_lo0="inet localhost" >> > >> > and de0 is enabled (i'm using GENERIC kernel at the moment). >> > No error, it just can't find anything on the network. Note this worked >> > with 3com Etherlink3 (ep0). >> > >> > And the cards work in my win95 machine. >> > >> > I am going to trying to setup two of these cards in a dual-homed >machine. >> > >> > Fun,fun,fun. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Pat >> > >> > Patrick McPartland >> > mcp@blast.net >> >> Hate to ask a silly question, but are the cards set up at the interupt >> and address that the kernel is compiled with? >> >> I would suggest that you either: >> >> a: Look at the config of the kernel and check the address and IRQ the >> card is supposed to work at, and set the cards there. >> >> b: recompile the kernel with the parameters you need. >> >> I would personally go with option b... >> >> Oh yeah... if these are software set cards, did WIN95 "HELP" you >> by resetting the cards to what IT wanted? I have seen it happen with >> other cards. WinBLows changes settings on them without even a "by your >> leave". >> >> I would also get ONE card working FIRST. then go to dual homed. >> >> Good Luck >> >> Blaine > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:23:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27181 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27176 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26240; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:22:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Alan Judge cc: Seppo Kallio , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:30 BST." <199704151455.PAA23521@indigo.ie> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:22:53 -0700 Message-ID: <26237.861128573@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One warning though. If you are using Adaptec disk controllers, make > sure to get the very latest kernel. Both 2.2.1-RELEASE and > 2.1.7.1-RELEASE have Adaptec problems under load and we had some hangs > and crashes before upgrading. Just to note: ftp://releng22.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD always has newer snapshots of 2.2 available for those looking to avoid exactly these sorts of problems. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:28:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27608 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27579 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA18154; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA01905; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:27:14 -0400 (EDT) To: Alan Judge cc: Seppo Kallio , isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:30 BST." <199704151455.PAA23521@indigo.ie> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:27:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1903.861128834@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alan Judge wrote in message ID <199704151455.PAA23521@indigo.ie>: > I'm running a large FreeBSD based server. It's not heavily loaded yet > (two full streaming feeds in and maybe 100 readers at peak times). > Load rarely climbs about 0.3. > > Setup: PPro 200, 256MB RAM, 8*4GB Quantum Atlas II Ultra Wide, 3940UW, > SMC EtherPower 10/100. > > Software: FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE (cvsuped kernel on 2.2.1 system), > INN-1.5.1, nntplink, newsxd. > > All works fine, as far as I can see, but the load is not that high > yet. We are taking a full feed (around 300K articles/day) without > problems, and the disks are ticking over nicely. > > One warning though. If you are using Adaptec disk controllers, make > sure to get the very latest kernel. Both 2.2.1-RELEASE and > 2.1.7.1-RELEASE have Adaptec problems under load and we had some hangs > and crashes before upgrading. root@news:~> uname -a FreeBSD news.webspan.net 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sat Nov 2 13:36:08 EST 1996 gpalmer@news.webspan.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/NEWS i386 root@news:~> uptime 2:22PM up 63 days, 1:26, 10 users, load averages: 2.59, 2.41, 2.43 200MHz PPro (256k cache) (one processor), 256Mb 60ns (true) parity ram, 5 4gig quantum atlas drives, 3940uw, smc 9332 10/100, and a 2 gig HP drive for root/newlib/etc. One note: apply the shared memory / mmap patches available. This will DRASTICALLY decrease the memory footprint of the nnrpd process. Pre patching, 120 readers would fill ram and 200Mb of swap. Post patching, I've gone past 150 readers and still had 150Mb swap left.... I'm running inn1.4unoff4 with about 6 full inbound feeds and 3 or 4 partials, although for all but 3 of those I send out more than I get. Also, more disks==good. CCD works fine. The only downside is when a drive dies, there is no recovering the ccd'd partition. However, news isn't THAT valuable. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:33:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28063 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28054 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA18986; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA03249; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:32:02 -0400 (EDT) To: Greg Stringfellow cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: NFS/Mail Questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:32:45 CDT." <199704151632.LAA03774@smokey.prismnet.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3247.861129122@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Stringfellow wrote in message ID <199704151632.LAA03774@smokey.prismnet.com>: > I'm looking into building a secondary POP/mail server and would like to use > NFS so that users on our shell account server can get mail. Looking at the > list archives, I've seen problems reported because of the lack of file > locking code in NFS. Don't. I just told them to use POP/IMAP compliant clients. If the don't like pine/mutt and insist on using elm, etc (which does NOT support POP or IMAP), there isn't much you can do. The only way I'd do it is if the client signed a disclaimer saying that any mail lossage is not your fault... Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:39:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28591 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28547; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA21198; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:39:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id NAA13821; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:39:11 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199704151839.NAA13821@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 13:39:09 CDT Cc: kallio@cc.jyu.fi, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "The Hermit Hacker" at Apr 15, 97 01:35:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Seppo Kallio wrote: > > Please reply if you are running a heavy loaded News server. > > > > We have Pentium Pro 200 + 128M RAM + 3*4G IBM Wide + 2940 + 3COM 590 > > > > + Linux RedHAt 4.1 !!! A good recipe for a poor news server. You don't need a PPro 200 to do news service. It will mostly sit idle. You could use more RAM and it would make much more of a difference. You don't have enough disks to make a decent spool. Why would you use Wide disks? The 2940 is nice; three NCR-810's are just as nice, and cost the same as the one 2940. Can't say anything about the 3C590; I use DEC-21x4x based stuff and am happy with it. And I'll skip the nasty comment about RedHat 4.1. > I'm running a FreeBSD 2.2 box with 96Meg of RAM and about > 13 peers, with 7 drives CCD'd together over 2 NCR SCSI controllers...and > am happy to report that other then a memory problem (hardware), that machine > is rock solid... > > Oh, its a 486DX4-100, not a PPro... I run newsfeeds.sol.net, a PPro200 / 256MB RAM / 1 NCR-810 / 2 AHA-3940 / 2 Kingston Ethernet's / 21 ST31055N's. It handles over two dozen news peers and is currently ranked the #17th most influential news server in the world. We only got the PPro200 because I couldn't get the other board I wanted... newsfeeds sits 70% idle on average, enough slop space for me to run things like rc5 :-) 1:36PM up 28 days, 4 hrs, 7 users, load averages: 2.35, 2.70, 2.70 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT jgreco p0 dors:0.0 9:23AM - w [etc] The load is artificially high because I'm running a bunch of other stuff right now... 28 days, it seems quite stable to me. It's a relatively fast box. :-) Breaking all the speed limits on the Information Superhighway, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:42:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28920 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28910 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23276; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:42:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Greg Stringfellow cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS/Mail Questions In-Reply-To: <199704151632.LAA03774@smokey.prismnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What I have is a mail machine, and regular login servers. users get mail via pop from the mail machine where the mail physically resides. shell users get mail using pine/imap which does the imap login to the mail server where the files physically reside - pine folders are done this way as well. On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Greg Stringfellow wrote: > I'm looking into building a secondary POP/mail server and would like to use > NFS so that users on our shell account server can get mail. Looking at the > list archives, I've seen problems reported because of the lack of file > locking code in NFS. > > Is anyone using a similar setup like the one I'm describing above that > would like to share some of the pros and cons they ran into? Did anyone > think of a better way? > > Any information is appreciated. > > Greg > > -- > Greg Stringfellow PrismNet, Inc. > Network Administration WWW Pages, ISDN, Telnet, Dialup Accounts > HTTP://www.prismnet.com Phone: (512)-418-1568 > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 11:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28986 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28973 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id NAA17603; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704151843.NAA17603@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:43:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: kallio@cc.jyu.fi Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If you're stuck on Linux, the best choice for a SCSI controller is > > probably the BusLogic. > > *I* succested FreeBSD, *they* did select Linux this is Finland the > homeland of Linus Torvalds - "Linux is the best country" > > Please help: I don't know BusLogic cards, which BusLogic modell you > succest to replace aha2940W (UW?). Well, before you give up on the 2940, you might want to give the next snapshot a try - should be out in the next day or so. It'll be using the same sequencer as the FreeBSD driver, and most of the kernel driver will be the same. If you're in dire need, the BusLogic 958 is probably a good choice - I think it's an UltraWide model, so it should work well with your existing drives. If you want to bother the author of the Linux BusLogic driver, you can reach him at lnz@dandelion.com (Leonard Zubkoff). Good Luck (whisper FreeBSD whenever you're around your customers :-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 12:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29692 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-41.netcom.ca [207.181.94.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29687; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA09145; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:59:28 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:59:28 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Joe Greco cc: kallio@cc.jyu.fi, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: <199704151839.NAA13821@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Joe Greco wrote: > > I'm running a FreeBSD 2.2 box with 96Meg of RAM and about > > 13 peers, with 7 drives CCD'd together over 2 NCR SCSI controllers...and > > am happy to report that other then a memory problem (hardware), that machine > > is rock solid... > > > > Oh, its a 486DX4-100, not a PPro... > > I run newsfeeds.sol.net, a PPro200 / 256MB RAM / 1 NCR-810 / 2 AHA-3940 / > 2 Kingston Ethernet's / 21 ST31055N's. It handles over two dozen news > peers and is currently ranked the #17th most influential news server > in the world. > That's okay...I'm proud of a 104 ranking, considering the box, which is up from 139 in Febuary... :) Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 12:10:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00410 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00370; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21301; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:10:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id OAA13940; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:10:12 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199704151910.OAA13940@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 14:10:10 CDT Cc: kallio@cc.jyu.fi, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "The Hermit Hacker" at Apr 15, 97 03:59:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I run newsfeeds.sol.net, a PPro200 / 256MB RAM / 1 NCR-810 / 2 AHA-3940 / > > 2 Kingston Ethernet's / 21 ST31055N's. It handles over two dozen news > > peers and is currently ranked the #17th most influential news server > > in the world. > > That's okay...I'm proud of a 104 ranking, considering the box, which > is up from 139 in Febuary... :) Not bad :-) Waaaaiittt... wha...? $ grep 104 top9703.html 104 1.43 newsfeed.kreonet.re.kr $ grep hub.org * top9701.html: 238 0.56 hub.org top9702.html: 139 0.93 hub.org top9703.html: 144 1.04 hub.org $ Ehhhhh reread the stats, guy. :-( That's #144 and 1.04 percent... an improvement in percentage but slippage in the ranking. (One of newsfeeds.sol.net's alter egos is www.us.pathsurvey.eu.org...) It's still impressive to see how many of the Top1K boxes are FreeBSD ones. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 12:38:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04732 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-26.netcom.ca [207.181.94.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04727; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA09486; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:35:57 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:35:57 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Joe Greco cc: kallio@cc.jyu.fi, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: <199704151910.OAA13940@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Joe Greco wrote: > > > I run newsfeeds.sol.net, a PPro200 / 256MB RAM / 1 NCR-810 / 2 AHA-3940 / > > > 2 Kingston Ethernet's / 21 ST31055N's. It handles over two dozen news > > > peers and is currently ranked the #17th most influential news server > > > in the world. > > > > That's okay...I'm proud of a 104 ranking, considering the box, which > > is up from 139 in Febuary... :) > > Not bad :-) Waaaaiittt... wha...? > > $ grep 104 top9703.html > 104 1.43 newsfeed.kreonet.re.kr > $ grep hub.org * > top9701.html: 238 0.56 hub.org > top9702.html: 139 0.93 hub.org > top9703.html: 144 1.04 hub.org > $ > > Ehhhhh reread the stats, guy. :-( That's #144 and 1.04 percent... an > improvement in percentage but slippage in the ranking. Ack, oops :( Still, substantial improvement over January :) That machine has some bad RAM in her too...have to replace that one of these days when I can afford it...losing 5 points isn't *too* bad :) > It's still impressive to see how many of the Top1K boxes are FreeBSD > ones. ;-) Ya, would be neat if the stats could have a comment to the side that stated what the OS was, if not more info ;) Maybe something where you could connect to the site and update info related to your site/domain manually and it got entered in a database *Shrug* Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 14:49:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13774 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.plusline.de (news.plusline.de [194.231.79.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13765 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.plusline.de (scully.lgt-bank.com [194.231.79.16]) by news.plusline.de (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20447 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:49:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415234825.006848f8@ns.gds.de> X-Sender: richard@ns.gds.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:48:25 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Richard Gresek Subject: sd0: data overrun of 16777215 bytes detected. Forcing a retry. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, we are running a WWW-Server on 3.0-970209-SNAP with Apache 1.2b7. Since a few days we have repeatedly problems with the hdd. The problem starts with the kernel message: Apr 15 02:24:48 www /kernel: sd0: data overrun of 16777215 bytes detected. Forcing a retry. Few hours later the server hangs and has to be switched off and on. Regularly the filesystem is corrupted and we lose thousands of files. The hardware is: MB: Gigabyte GA5DX (With Adaptec SCSII onboard) CPU: P5 Intel 200 MHz Disk: QUANTUM XP34550S LXQ1 (4 GB) Has anybody an idea where the problem could be?? Thanks in advance. Richard Gresek #======================================================= # # ==============> D P N <============== # =======> Deutsches Provider Network <========= # # Richard Gresek Internet PoP fuer # c/o Plus.Line -> Frankfurt # Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 -> Stuttgart # D-60596 Frankfurt/M. -> Westerwald # Tel.: +49 69 61991275 # Fax: +49 69 610238 http://www.plusline.de #======================================================= From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 15:29:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16143 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16113 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eddie ([206.62.254.35]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04336; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:33:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3353F785.3ABA@eaznet.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:47:49 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Gonzalez CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RADIUS Menus and USR Total Control Netserver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adrian Gonzalez wrote: > > Hi I have a question > > We run a local ISP, and have three pools of 16 modems, two of which are > rackmount BOCA modems (2x16), connected via Digiboards to a BSD box. The > third is a US Robotics Total Control Netserver. Now, the problem is I > need to support some sort of login menu on both... like: > > login: foo > password: *** > > Welcome.. blah blah > > choose your service > p) ppp > s) slip > > Response: > > I've tested two versions of RADIUS, one from Ascend, and one from > Livingston. The Livingston one works great with menus, but is to be used > only with Livingston equipment. I downloaded and compiled the Merit > version of RADIUS from the ports collection, but it doesn't seem to > support menus. Livingston's RADIUS can only be used on Livingston equipment??? I use Livingston with my USR NetServer nad have no problems. Is this a licensing issue? > > Has anybody modified the Merit version of RADIUS to allow this? I would > like to use Merit RADIUS because I can get the source code for it, as I > need to tweak some minor details, however, adding menu support would be a > major pain. In fact, I would be happy if I could just display some text > after the user has logged in, and ask a dumb string from the user. The > reason for this is that before we got the USR NetServer, most of our > users had dial scripts that waited for a shell prompt and sent the 'ppp' > command there. We don't really have SLIP users anymore, so I could > really care less what the user types, but the prompt has to be there, or > else we're going to have to start a massive dial script modifying > 'campaign', and being that our average user has no clue as to how to go > about this, it could turn out to be quite troublesome. > > As for USR, I've yet to get an answer for them on wether they have ported > their RADIUS server to FreeBSD yet, but everything I've read in the > mailing list archives suggests they haven't. > > Thanks for any help you can provide. > > -Adrian Gonzalez > -System Administrator > -GPC Net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 15:52:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17200 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17195 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA26009 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:52:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA16155 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:46:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS/Mail Questions In-Reply-To: <3247.861129122@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > > I'm looking into building a secondary POP/mail server and would like to use > > NFS so that users on our shell account server can get mail. Looking at the > > list archives, I've seen problems reported because of the lack of file > > locking code in NFS. > > Don't. I just told them to use POP/IMAP compliant clients. If the > don't like pine/mutt and insist on using elm, etc (which does NOT > support POP or IMAP), there isn't much you can do. Just install ESR's fetchmail on the shell server to pick up email via POP or IMAP and deposit it where ELM can read it. http://www.ccil.org/~esr/esr-freeware.html Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 16:24:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA19514 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19501 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id NAA08644 for isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:24:31 -1000 (HST) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:24:31 -1000 (HST) From: David Langford Message-Id: <199704152324.NAA08644@caliban.dihelix.com> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Credit Card software Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? Thanks, -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 16:48:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20961 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (root@obiwan.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20942 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P1mpBSD (coolholio@P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.130]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.5/TerraNovaNet) with ESMTP id TAA09639; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704152349.TAA09639@obiwan.TerraNova.net> From: "Travis Mikalson" To: , "Richard Gresek" Subject: Re: data overrun of 16777215 bytes detected. Forcing a retry. Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:46:54 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've had the same thing happen. Lost my /etc.. was a real nightmare The solution was replacement of the fscked SCSI cable. Travis -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Services - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. > Hallo, > > we are running a WWW-Server on 3.0-970209-SNAP with Apache 1.2b7. > > Since a few days we have repeatedly problems with the hdd. > > The problem starts with the kernel message: > > Apr 15 02:24:48 www /kernel: sd0: data overrun of 16777215 bytes detected. > Forcing a retry. > > Few hours later the server hangs and has to be switched off and on. > Regularly the filesystem is corrupted and we lose thousands of files. > > The hardware is: > MB: Gigabyte GA5DX (With Adaptec SCSII onboard) > CPU: P5 Intel 200 MHz > Disk: QUANTUM XP34550S LXQ1 (4 GB) > > Has anybody an idea where the problem could be?? > > Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 16:59:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21906 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21900 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id TAA28557; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:01:04 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma028536; Wed Apr 16 00:00:54 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970415185303.0070d664@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:53:04 -0500 To: Marc Albers From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Some advice needed. Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:17 PM 4/15/97 METDST, Marc Albers wrote: >> At 10:30 PM 4/14/97 +0200, Maartje van der Heide wrote: >> >Hey.. cut the bullshit, this is my favourite mailinglist, don't spoil it >> >please. >> >> Rather refreshing change of pace for a long running thread. >> >> Have to let the kids play once in a while. 8-) > >So Jeff, you and Maartje have kids? >The first 'real' freebsd children have been forked without >telling your friends on this mailing list... :-( But then RADIUS takes a hand: Sun Apr 13 13:01:31 1997: Killing unresponsive child pid 10715 I know some parents that could use this this. 8-) OK, guess I should "grow up" and let the disfunctional thread die. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 17:01:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA22062 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starbase.globalpc.net (agonzalez@[207.211.100.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22048 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from agonzalez@localhost) by starbase.globalpc.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA12607; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:05:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:05:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Adrian Gonzalez To: Eddie Fry cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RADIUS Menus and USR Total Control Netserver In-Reply-To: <3353F785.3ABA@eaznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Eddie Fry wrote: > Livingston's RADIUS can only be used on Livingston equipment??? I use > Livingston with my USR NetServer nad have no problems. Is this a > licensing issue? > Yes, it is. From the Livingston webpage: This software may only be used in conjunction with Livingston (or Livingston authorized) products. To be completely honest, I'd probably use it, but my setup requires tweaking the server code a bit. For that I need the source code, which is only available to people who own Livingston equipment. Anyway, thanks to those of you who replied. I have started adding menu support for Merit RADIUS... I don't know how long it'll take me, or whether I'll be successful, but I'll try :) regards -Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 18:06:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25970 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (USR1-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25963 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27557; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:06:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199704160106.UAA27557@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Credit Card software To: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704152324.NAA08644@caliban.dihelix.com> from David Langford at "Apr 15, 97 01:24:31 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Langford wrote: > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? Hello, Icverify used to have software (2 years ago). I'm not sure about now... > > Thanks, > > -David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com > Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 18:12:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26165 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26150 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA09372 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:11:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415201014.006ad5fc@linus.intrastar.net> X-Sender: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:10:14 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Jacob Suter Subject: News... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? JS From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 19:24:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00109 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29995 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA30197 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:24:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA17989 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:19:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970415201014.006ad5fc@linus.intrastar.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Jacob Suter wrote: > After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if > NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any > advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? Yep. It's called asking your upstream NNTP feeds to *NOT* send you alt.binaries.* or alt.sex.* Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 15 23:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA13712 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itu.cc.jyu.fi (root@itu.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.40.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13703; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itu.cc.jyu.fi (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA26909; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:04:36 +0300 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:04:36 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: Joe Greco cc: The Hermit Hacker , hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: <199704151910.OAA13940@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Joe Greco wrote: > Not bad :-) Waaaaiittt... wha...? > > $ grep 104 top9703.html > 104 1.43 newsfeed.kreonet.re.kr > $ grep hub.org * > top9701.html: 238 0.56 hub.org > top9702.html: 139 0.93 hub.org > top9703.html: 144 1.04 hub.org > $ What is this? > It's still impressive to see how many of the Top1K boxes are FreeBSD > ones. ;-) How Many? I cannot see. Has someone some statistics? Some list of NewsServers in Internet? Seppo From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 02:38:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA11735 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA11720 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA20674; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:34:52 +0100 Message-ID: <33549D3C.446B9B3D@cablenet.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:34:52 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Langford CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software References: <199704152324.NAA08644@caliban.dihelix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Langford wrote: > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > Thanks, > > -David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com I believe there are only PC-DOS based products currently available. We are planning to add this to our product (which runs on FreeBSD) but I'm so busy with other things that I don't know when it will be available. regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 03:44:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA16034 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dara.kada.lt ([193.219.13.140]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15831; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dara.kada.lt (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dara.kada.lt (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA05800; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:56:31 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3354B05E.41C67EA6@alpha.kada.lt> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:56:30 +0000 From: Darius Ramanauskas X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-question@freebsd.org CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: HylaFax 4.0 make problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All, Does anybody have succesfully compiled and installed the HylaFax 4.0pl1. Please help. Send changes or Makefile or anything what could help to me..... My proplem is that: after ./configure make did not finds many include files like: sys/bsdtypes.h sys/modem.h sys/mkdev.h net/erron.h and others... Darius TDD Sys/Net Admin From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 04:09:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA18178 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18161; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06601; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:58:00 +0800 (WST) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:58:00 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Gary Palmer cc: Greg Stringfellow , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS/Mail Questions In-Reply-To: <3247.861129122@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Don't. I just told them to use POP/IMAP compliant clients. If the > don't like pine/mutt and insist on using elm, etc (which does NOT > support POP or IMAP), there isn't much you can do. > > The only way I'd do it is if the client signed a disclaimer saying > that any mail lossage is not your fault... You COULD install procmail if you were feeling lucky :) They do that at uni, if I want to read email via pine I use IMAP, if I want to read mail via elm I install procmail. Cya Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 04:10:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA18346 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18340 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06605; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:58:59 +0800 (WST) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:58:59 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Steve cc: Greg Stringfellow , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS/Mail Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What I have is a mail machine, and regular login servers. users get > mail via pop from the mail machine where the mail physically resides. Physically resides? Oh well, I suppose you COULD say that if you consider the magnetic changeds on the disk as "physical".. *grin* Cya Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 04:28:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA20362 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns1-24.netcom.ca [207.181.94.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20353; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thelab.hub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA21572; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:26:23 -0300 (ADT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:26:23 -0300 (ADT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Seppo Kallio cc: Joe Greco , hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is someone running heavy loaded inn server? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Seppo Kallio wrote: > On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Not bad :-) Waaaaiittt... wha...? > > > > $ grep 104 top9703.html > > 104 1.43 newsfeed.kreonet.re.kr > > $ grep hub.org * > > top9701.html: 238 0.56 hub.org > > top9702.html: 139 0.93 hub.org > > top9703.html: 144 1.04 hub.org > > $ > > What is this? http://www.freenix.fr/top1000 Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 07:49:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA00916 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pernet.net (mail.pernet.net [205.229.0.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00910 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.pernet.net (office.pernet.net [205.229.0.2]) by mail.pernet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA21901; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:59:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:49:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Neal Reply-To: neal@pernet.net To: Damian Hamill cc: David Langford , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: <33549D3C.446B9B3D@cablenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They tried to sell it to me last week. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > David Langford wrote: > > > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > > > Thanks, > > > > -David Langford > > langfod@dihelix.com > > I believe there are only PC-DOS based products currently available. We > are planning to add this to our product (which runs on FreeBSD) but I'm > so busy with other things that I don't know when it will be available. > > regards > damian > > -- > * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features > * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! > * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ > * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net > > -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 09:14:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05531 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.cioe.com (news.cioe.com [204.120.165.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05517; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by news.cioe.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id LAA04228; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:13:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:13:52 -0500 (EST) From: CIOE Admin Message-Id: <199704161613.LAA04228@news.cioe.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, maartje@simplex.nlfreebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine?Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 Cc: maartje@simplex.nl Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now, is this just bad luck, since we had the micropolis harddisks > working for one and half year without a single problem? > The rotational speed is 7200 rpm, is it too much for a newsmachine > (will it heat up too much) ? Or will there be no problem when I > buy a separate box to hold (and cool) the disks? I'm on my third set up of micropolis disks. Mine are smaller 2G variety (4421). All seem to exhibit the same behavior. The work fine for a few days, then they start spewing errors accross my screen, then they start causeing a crash or reboot every coouple of hours, and then they die. I'm having areally hard time believing three sets of bad drives, so I'm swapping my controller card (adaptec 2940) out with a newer 2940. *shrug* maybe swap the SCSI cable as well. None of these things quite fit the symptons though. The drives crashing does. *sigh* -steve From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 09:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07310 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07282; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA10635; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:50:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970416114909.00689574@linus.intrastar.net> X-Sender: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:49:09 -0500 To: CIOE Admin , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, maartje@simplex.nlfreebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Jacob Suter Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine?Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 Cc: maartje@simplex.nl In-Reply-To: <199704161613.LAA04228@news.cioe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm on my third set up of micropolis disks. Mine are smaller 2G variety >(4421). All seem to exhibit the same behavior. The work fine for a few >days, then they start spewing errors accross my screen, then they start >causeing a crash or reboot every coouple of hours, and then they die. >I'm having areally hard time believing three sets of bad drives, so I'm >swapping my controller card (adaptec 2940) out with a newer 2940. *shrug* >maybe swap the SCSI cable as well. None of these things quite fit the >symptons though. The drives crashing does. *sigh* Check your power. Dirty power can be a real nightmare. For that many drives I'd say a large UPS attached to at least a 300W power supply (or two). JS From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 10:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08345 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08337 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by cold.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA02655; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:07:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Neal cc: Damian Hamill , David Langford , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They > tried to sell it to me last week. > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > > > David Langford wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > > > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -David Langford > > > langfod@dihelix.com > > > > I believe there are only PC-DOS based products currently available. We > > are planning to add this to our product (which runs on FreeBSD) but I'm > > so busy with other things that I don't know when it will be available. I have written a Visa POS Port network server which runs in FreeBSD. If there is interest I can find out about licencing it from my employer (Sun Remarketing). Note: it does NOT do any security encryption at the network layer--it assumes your network is secure (i.e. not internet connected, or firewalled). Implementing a secure layer is just too much work. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 10:11:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08541 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from absinthe.i3inc.com (Absinthe.stonos.washington.dc.us [206.27.237.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08528 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by absinthe.i3inc.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA03657 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704161709.NAA03657@absinthe.i3inc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: absinthe.i3inc.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: PPP-only dialup logins? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:13:52 -0500 (EST)" References: <199704161613.LAA04228@news.cioe.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:09:58 -0400 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm setting up a dumb little box at my ISP to act as a ppp-ether router for my own dialup. I'd like to give mpd a go, too. I am interested in replacing the gettys on the serial/modem ports with pppd directly, so I can bypass Login:/Password: and simply use PAP to authenticate. This would appear to be much like "real" dialup servers. Actually it would be coolest if the getty-style process on the line did behave like many real comm servers: if it saw PPP noise, invoke PPP immediately. If it saw CR or timed out waiting after 5 seconds, offer the usual Login:/Password: prompt. What's the best way to do this? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 10:27:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11039 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11008; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id MAA20489; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:27:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704161727.MAA20489@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:27:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, maartje%simplex.nlfreebsd-isp@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-isp@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 rpm in a newsmachine?Re: Micropolis 3243 7200 Cc: maartje@simplex.nl Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm on my third set up of micropolis disks. Mine are smaller 2G variety > (4421). All seem to exhibit the same behavior. The work fine for a few > days, then they start spewing errors accross my screen, then they start > causeing a crash or reboot every coouple of hours, and then they die. > I'm having areally hard time believing three sets of bad drives, so I'm > swapping my controller card (adaptec 2940) out with a newer 2940. *shrug* > maybe swap the SCSI cable as well. None of these things quite fit the > symptons though. The drives crashing does. *sigh* A couple of years ago I purchased a 3243W for use on my 2940W. It didn't take long for it to burn up. I had it in a tower chasis with decent ventilation, but I had a lot of SCSI devices in there and it was sandwiched between a couple of other drives. Micropolis sent me a replacement without too much fuss and this one runs cooler and hasn't given me any problems. I don't run a news server, but I use these drives for testing the aic7xxx driver. One thing that I can get to happen is for the Micropolis to lock up and die when I'm testing a buggy aic7xxx driver. I think what might be hapeening is that it's getting sent garbage commands or commands that it doesn't know what to do with, and instead of dropping them on the floor and continuing on, it decides to stop responding to prevent data corruption. It takes a cold boot for it to respond again. It could be that you're tickling some bugs in the aic7xxx driver, and during error recovery things go awry enough to panic your Micropolis drives. There were some known problems in the aic7xxx driver, and depending on what version of FreeBSD you're using, this could be causing your problem. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 10:28:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11187 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pernet.net (mail.pernet.net [205.229.0.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11149 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.pernet.net (office.pernet.net [205.229.0.2]) by mail.pernet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA26944; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:38:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:28:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Neal Reply-To: neal@pernet.net To: Brandon Gillespie cc: Damian Hamill , David Langford , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That would definately be interesting. On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > > IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They > > tried to sell it to me last week. > > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > > David Langford wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > > > > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > -David Langford > > > > langfod@dihelix.com > > > > > > I believe there are only PC-DOS based products currently available. We > > > are planning to add this to our product (which runs on FreeBSD) but I'm > > > so busy with other things that I don't know when it will be available. > > I have written a Visa POS Port network server which runs in FreeBSD. If > there is interest I can find out about licencing it from my employer (Sun > Remarketing). Note: it does NOT do any security encryption at the network > layer--it assumes your network is secure (i.e. not internet connected, or > firewalled). Implementing a secure layer is just too much work. > > -Brandon Gillespie > > -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 11:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28624 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28593 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id IAA13095; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:30:23 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199704161830.IAA13095@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: from Neal at "Apr 16, 97 08:49:37 am" To: neal@pernet.net Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:30:23 -1000 (HST) Cc: damian@cablenet.net, langfod@dihelix.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Neal > >IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They >tried to sell it to me last week. >neal@mail.pernet.net Realy, I checked out their web page and I would NEVER have guessed this. Dont understand some companies.... -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 11:38:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00660 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00626 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by cold.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA02844; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:37:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:37:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Luigi Rizzo cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: <199704161726.TAA03113@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I have written a Visa POS Port network server which runs in FreeBSD. If > > there is interest I can find out about licencing it from my employer (Sun > > Remarketing). Note: it does NOT do any security encryption at the network > > I think it would be interesting if you could give a description of > what your software does and how it interfaces with whatever device > it needs -- just for culture, since if I had a need for this thing > I should probably know what it does :) You can see our in-house 'notes' and 'specs' at: http://www.cold.org/~brandon/pos.html Expect them to be rough--I can correct and update them later.. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 12:36:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16095 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lepton.nuc.net (wheelman@lepton.nuc.net [204.49.61.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16063 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (wheelman@localhost) by lepton.nuc.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21696; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:35:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:35:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Jaime Bozza To: David Langford cc: neal@pernet.net, damian@cablenet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: <199704161830.IAA13095@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, David Langford wrote: > >IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They > >tried to sell it to me last week. > > Realy, I checked out their web page and I would NEVER have guessed this. > Dont understand some companies.... Their page USED to be more informative. Probably the most important piece of information about the Unix version is that is costs $4000 base (10-user version) ... Needless to say, it would be cheaper to set up a small NT server to process CC's than to try and purchase the Unix version. (NT version is $289 street) Jaime Bozza Nucleus Communications, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 12:37:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16352 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.mexcom.net (root@ns.mexcom.net [206.103.64.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16346 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by ns.mexcom.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA05636; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:36:50 -0500 Message-ID: <33552A4E.116C73E4@mexcom.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:36:46 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brandon Gillespie CC: Neal , Damian Hamill , David Langford , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Credit Card software References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > > IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They > > tried to sell it to me last week. > > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > > David Langford wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > > > > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > -David Langford > > > > langfod@dihelix.com > > > > > > I believe there are only PC-DOS based products currently available. We > > > are planning to add this to our product (which runs on FreeBSD) but I'm > > > so busy with other things that I don't know when it will be available. > > I have written a Visa POS Port network server which runs in FreeBSD. If > there is interest I can find out about licencing it from my employer (Sun > Remarketing). Note: it does NOT do any security encryption at the network > layer--it assumes your network is secure (i.e. not internet connected, or > firewalled). Implementing a secure layer is just too much work. > > -Brandon Gillespie I for one am very interested. I would rather start at 10 than at 0 anytime. ed From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 12:40:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16860 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16787 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id JAA13401; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:38:12 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199704161938.JAA13401@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: from Jaime Bozza at "Apr 16, 97 02:35:13 pm" To: wheelman@nuc.net (Jaime Bozza) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:38:12 -1000 (HST) Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, neal@pernet.net, damian@cablenet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaime Bozza >On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, David Langford wrote: > >> >IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They >> >tried to sell it to me last week. >> >> Realy, I checked out their web page and I would NEVER have guessed this. >> Dont understand some companies.... > >Their page USED to be more informative. Probably the most important >piece of information about the Unix version is that is costs $4000 base >(10-user version) ... Needless to say, it would be cheaper to set up a >small NT server to process CC's than to try and purchase the Unix version. >(NT version is $289 street) Gee and these companies wonder why they catn sell UNIX software to anyone! I did a search for "unix" in their search and at the bottom of the list (after all the microsoft "how to set up a web server" documentation was a notice about some software that was in the $589 range. -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 12:41:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17026 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pernet.net (mail.pernet.net [205.229.0.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16974 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.pernet.net (office.pernet.net [205.229.0.2]) by mail.pernet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA01566; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:50:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:40:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Neal Reply-To: neal@pernet.net To: Jaime Bozza cc: David Langford , damian@cablenet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The other side, of course, would be to develope it yourself. The docs on the datastreams, etc. are only $200(from our vendor at least). On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Jaime Bozza wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, David Langford wrote: > > > >IC-Verify definately still sells a UNIX version of their software. They > > >tried to sell it to me last week. > > > > Realy, I checked out their web page and I would NEVER have guessed this. > > Dont understand some companies.... > > Their page USED to be more informative. Probably the most important > piece of information about the Unix version is that is costs $4000 base > (10-user version) ... Needless to say, it would be cheaper to set up a > small NT server to process CC's than to try and purchase the Unix version. > (NT version is $289 street) > > Jaime Bozza > Nucleus Communications, Inc. > > > -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 12:42:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17465 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lepton.nuc.net (wheelman@lepton.nuc.net [204.49.61.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17429 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (wheelman@localhost) by lepton.nuc.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21826; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:40:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:40:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Jaime Bozza To: Neal cc: David Langford , damian@cablenet.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > The other side, of course, would be to develope it yourself. The docs on > the datastreams, etc. are only $200(from our vendor at least). True. (Minus the server - It's only an $89 difference) I suppose it all depends on how much time you have free for development. :) Jaime Bozza Nucleus Communications, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 13:08:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22886 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duke.neuronet.com.my (neuronet.com.my [202.184.153.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22809 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from love.com.my by duke.neuronet.com.my; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/25Jul96-0519PM) id AA08380; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:07:43 +0800 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:07:43 +0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417040151.00db4798@neuronet.com.my> X-Sender: sweeting@neuronet.com.my X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: chas Subject: ERR POP EOF console errors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excuse this question which must be in a FAQ somewhere but I have read the sendmail faq, checked dejanews and freebsd archives and found nothing but other people asking the same question and no answers : what are the -ERR POP EOF messages on the console when people connect to the server ? people seem able to connect and collect ok but i just dislike error messages. cheers, chas From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 13:36:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28590 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duke.neuronet.com.my (neuronet.com.my [202.184.153.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA28481 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from love.com.my by duke.neuronet.com.my; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/25Jul96-0519PM) id AA08469; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:35:14 +0800 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:35:14 +0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417042922.00db3288@neuronet.com.my> X-Sender: sweeting@neuronet.com.my X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: chas Subject: how to : webpage for users to change pop passwd ?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk oops, forgot to ask this one with the last email. i have noticed that some isp's put up webpages for users to change their pop user names. could somebody pls point me to scripts on the backend for this. (a cgi-script which interacts with the shell passwd command ?) chas From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 14:54:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15282 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.euronet.nl (mail.euronet.nl [194.134.0.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15259 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i016.asd.euronet.nl (i016.asd.euronet.nl [194.134.9.176]) by mail.euronet.nl (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20520 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:54:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by i016.asd.euronet.nl with Microsoft Mail id <01BC4AC1.BC150910@i016.asd.euronet.nl>; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:56:00 +0200 Message-ID: <01BC4AC1.BC150910@i016.asd.euronet.nl> From: Rob van Oostveen To: "'isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: UUPC/Extended Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:55:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've installed UUPC/Extended on a Win95 system with a direct link to a SCO OpenServer system. Both on 1st serial port. Previously I configured UUPC over TCP port 540 and works fine with same machines. I suspect the cable to be the bottleneck. I'm using a 'standard' - out of the box - null modem cable and I'm using DIR.MDM file for direct connection. The cable is 9 <-> 9 both female. I found that 2-3,3-2 are linked, but not 7-8,8-7 as - CTS/RTS according to my info - should be for a regular null modem cable. Can anyone advise me which pin layout for a 9<->9 female cable to use ? Thanks in advance! Van Oostveen Systeembeheer Rob van Oostveen Tel : +32-72-5069817 Fax : +32-72-5069826 E-mail : oostveen@euronet.nl From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 15:04:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17413 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17385 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA07027; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:03:49 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:03:48 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Chris Shenton cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PPP-only dialup logins? In-Reply-To: <199704161709.NAA03657@absinthe.i3inc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Chris Shenton wrote: > I'm setting up a dumb little box at my ISP to act as a ppp-ether > router for my own dialup. I'd like to give mpd a go, too. A couple of days ago I posted on this list about my ppp terminal server kit. It has everything you need. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 15:57:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA08683 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca (root@bsd1.lannon.qc.ca [207.253.12.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08627 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default (port154.ireseau.com [206.47.102.154]) by lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12284; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:41:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:41:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199704162241.SAA12284@lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca> X-Sender: admin@lannon.qc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: chas From: admin@lannon.qc.ca (Real Melancon) Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id PAA08645 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Excuse this question which must be in a FAQ somewhere >but I have read the sendmail faq, checked dejanews >and freebsd archives and found nothing but other people >asking the same question and no answers : > >what are the -ERR POP EOF messages on the console when people >connect to the server ? > >people seem able to connect and collect ok but i just dislike >error messages. > >cheers, > >chas > > Tell me if you can find something on this one. I have the same errors all over my /var/log/termlog file. And I`d like to get rid of it. I suspect Win 95 Internet Mail to cause this, but I`m not sure. From time to time I also have the following message: ERR: "auth" unknown command or somthing like that! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Salutations :-) Réal Melançon - Programmeur/Analyste Internet L`Annonciation (http://lannon.qc.ca) Developpement de sites Web. Intranets. Formation. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 17:16:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11528 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from churchill.apic.net (root@churchill.apic.net [203.26.193.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11443 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jefferson (jefferson.apic.net [203.22.101.10]) by churchill.apic.net (8.8.5/APIC-1.0) with SMTP id KAA08157; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:14:14 +1000 (EST) X-Org: The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty. Ltd. Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970417105748.00c46640@mail.apic.net> X-Sender: adrian@mail.apic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:57:48 +1000 To: admin@lannon.qc.ca (Real Melancon), chas From: Adrian Carter Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704162241.SAA12284@lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id RAA11493 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 18:41 16/04/97 -0400, Real Melancon wrote: >>what are the -ERR POP EOF messages on the console when people >>connect to the server ? > I suspect Win 95 Internet Mail to cause this, but I`m not sure. > > From time to time I also have the following message: > > ERR: "auth" unknown command I too recive heaps of the AUTH and EOF errors. I noticed they only began when I installed qpopper2.2, and when I was running boring qpop it didnt happen. I also think the AUTH is NSMail myself, to do with SSL transactions perhaps, however, I know that the EOF comes from MSMail and Exchange clients for sure. Adrian > > or somthing like that! >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Salutations :-) >Réal Melançon - Programmeur/Analyste >Internet L`Annonciation (http://lannon.qc.ca) >Developpement de sites Web. Intranets. Formation. >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- ************************************************************************* *Adrian Carter Email: adrian@apic.net * *Systems Administrator URL: http://www.apic.net/ * *The Asia Pacific Internet Company Pty Ltd Autoresp: info@apic.net * * Internet Access, Web Housing, Mailing List Management * * Phone: (+612) 9419-5333 Fax: (+612) 9419-5155 * ************************************************************************* From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 17:18:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA12270 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (root@obiwan.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12221 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P1mpBSD (coolholio@P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.130]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.5/TerraNovaNet) with SMTP id UAA15223; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33556BB5.55A9@TerraNova.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:15:49 -0400 From: Travis Mikalson Reply-To: bofh@TerraNova.net Organization: TerraNovaNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Real Melancon CC: chas , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors References: <199704162241.SAA12284@lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Real Melancon wrote: > > >Excuse this question which must be in a FAQ somewhere > >but I have read the sendmail faq, checked dejanews > >and freebsd archives and found nothing but other people > >asking the same question and no answers : > > > >what are the -ERR POP EOF messages on the console when people > >connect to the server ? > > > >people seem able to connect and collect ok but i just dislike > >error messages. > > > >cheers, > > > >chas > > > > > > Tell me if you can find something on this one. I have the same > errors all over my /var/log/termlog file. And I`d like to get > rid of it. > > I suspect Win 95 Internet Mail to cause this, but I`m not sure. > > From time to time I also have the following message: > > ERR: "auth" unknown command > > or somthing like that! The "ERR: "auth" unknown command" is caused by older versions of Micros**t Internet Mail. Someone thought 'auth' was a POP command over there at Microsoft.. *shrug* The "-ERR POP EOF" messages are caused by Netscape Mail when it checks for mail and there is none waiting. I guess Netscape Mail says "FINE" and hangs up quite prematurely/rudely ;) Micros**t fixed their boo-boo in the newest version of Internet Mail.. Netscape hasn't in 3.01 Release :( Travis -- -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Services - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 16 20:19:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02907 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02902 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA08172; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:21:06 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008153; Thu Apr 17 03:20:44 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970416221245.00aea5c8@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:12:45 -0500 To: Michael Dillon From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: News... Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 07:19 PM 4/15/97 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote: >On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Jacob Suter wrote: > >> After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if >> NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any >> advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? > >Yep. It's called asking your upstream NNTP feeds to *NOT* send you >alt.binaries.* or alt.sex.* What amazes me is the amount that collects from crossposting. Worth about 10-15% the total. Our (temporary) fix was a server that will not work, period. The only thing left to swap out is the case and MB standoffs? Out upstream is feeding them. 8-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 00:43:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA16819 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16814 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id DAA08056; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id DAA27509; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:42:54 -0400 (EDT) To: Jacob Suter cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:10:14 CDT." <3.0.1.32.19970415201014.006ad5fc@linus.intrastar.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 03:42:53 -0400 Message-ID: <27507.861262973@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob Suter wrote in message ID <3.0.1.32.19970415201014.006ad5fc@linus.intrastar.net>: > After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if > NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any > advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? Part of the problem with news is that nowadays at least 25% of all traffic (by volume) is commercial spam for sex sites or something equeally lame (mmf, etc). Then there is the other 1-2% of articles (by number) which cancel all the spam. But a lot of the trouble (I think) is that inn is a bloated, out of date, BEAST. A lot of gains can be made by simple code optimization and adding of indexing, etc. However, that won't change the fact that you still need a lot of diskspace to hold the articles. And it's growing. Nothing will stop that (short of dropping alt.sex and alt.binaries like someone else suggested). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 00:55:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA17562 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.altadena.net (ns.altadena.net [206.126.144.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA17557 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pete@localhost) by ns.altadena.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA13430; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Pete Carah Message-Id: <199704170755.AAA13430@ns.altadena.net> Subject: Re: News... To: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net (Jacob Suter) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970415201014.006ad5fc@linus.intrastar.net> from Jacob Suter at "Apr 15, 97 08:10:14 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if > NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any > advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? Not to speak of the net itself; we (not a particularly major player, but we get independent feeds from 3 of the "top 1k") are currently getting between 1 and 2 gb/day in, the great majority (all but about 300mb) in alt.binaries, evenly split between various cracks and pictures (and that's in spite of having all warez and most binaries.games groups 'x'd out; I've seen too much copyright stuff in them. The cracker folks post to non-obvious groups (like already-passworded copies of photoshop showing up in alt.binaries.games, which I've seen more than once)). -- Pete From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 01:14:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18505 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18500 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id EAA10210; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id EAA04899; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:13:12 -0400 (EDT) To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" cc: Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:12:45 CDT." <3.0.32.19970416221245.00aea5c8@mixcom.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:13:12 -0400 Message-ID: <4897.861264792@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jeffrey J. Mountin" wrote in message ID <3.0.32.19970416221245.00aea5c8@mixcom.com>: > What amazes me is the amount that collects from crossposting. Worth about > 10-15% the total. Really? I'd have guessed closer to 30% of all volume is crossposted more than to more than 5 groups. I'm considering running my server for a day with the entry in newsfeeds that rejects articles that are crossposted more than x times (x in this case being 10 for me) to see what happens to volume Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 01:37:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA19737 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [207.104.147.225]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA19727 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:37:50 -0700 (PDT) From: michael@blueneptune.com Received: (from michael@localhost) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA25640; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:39:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199704170839.BAA25640@rainey.blueneptune.com> Subject: Re: News... To: pete@ns.altadena.net (Pete Carah) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704170755.AAA13430@ns.altadena.net> from "Pete Carah" at Apr 17, 97 00:55:34 am Reply-To: michael@blueneptune.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Not to speak of the net itself; we (not a particularly major player, > but we get independent feeds from 3 of the "top 1k") are currently > getting between 1 and 2 gb/day in, the great majority (all but about 300mb) > in alt.binaries, evenly split between various cracks and pictures (and that's > in spite of having all warez and most binaries.games groups 'x'd out; I've > seen too much copyright stuff in them. The cracker folks post to > non-obvious groups (like already-passworded copies of photoshop showing > up in alt.binaries.games, which I've seen more than once)). Due to disk limitations, we do not get the groups known to get large messages regularly (alt.binaries.*, and a few others). It's pretty simple to write a quick script which will go through the news spool and remove all files of a particular size, or at least report to you what they are. We don't run one on a regular basis, but will run it to clear out some space if the news disk starts to fill up and cause problems. -- Michael Bryan michael@blueneptune.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 07:10:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA03028 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA03023 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA31595 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:10:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05386 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:05:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <27507.861262973@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > However, that won't change the fact that you still need a lot of > diskspace to hold the articles. And it's growing. Nothing will stop > that (short of dropping alt.sex and alt.binaries like someone else > suggested). A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting twist that may sidestep this issue, however I am not a lawyer so ask your own lawyer for advice if you have any questions. Rather than just targetting alt.binaries.* and zap everything, target any message that is in a binary encoding format. In other words, USENET is for messages, discussions, etc. so zap anything that is abusing USENET by using it as a file transfer medium. Don't accept UUencoded messages or Base64 or any other recognizable binary format. Text is OK and so is HTML because these are message formats, not file formats. Why do this? Germany just laid charges against Compuserve for distributing porn. Australia announced plans to target child porn and to ask OECD countries to join it. Canada's national police force has asked ISP's to drop porn newsgroups because they have child porn in them. Playboy raided a company that redistributes binary images because of copyright violations. OCAF in the USA is working with local police forces to target ISP's who carry USENET porn http://www.amazing.com/internet The UK government is asking ISP's to not carry porn newsgroups. Is there a pattern? I think so. If people want to get porn from the net there are literally HUNDREDS of WWW servers offering the material and taking the responsibility for checking that it is legal by the standards of the country which they are in. But USENET opens up ISP's servers to images from anywhere with no checks and balances. There is no clear case law yet, but in some countries it is possible that ISP's will be held legally responsible because they are storing the material on their servers for public access, unlike WWW, email or IRC. IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 07:36:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04620 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sol.amitar.com.au (sol.amitar.com.au [203.57.242.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04611 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sol.amitar.com.au (sol.amitar.com.au [203.57.242.11]) by sol.amitar.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00220 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:37:15 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <3356358C.41C67EA6@amitar.com.au> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:37:00 +0800 From: Michael Slater X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Pop3 Radius Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Is anyone aware of a patch that will allow a the in.pop3d daemon to validate users through a radius server ? If so, i would appriciate hearing about it. regards, Michael Slater slaterm@sol.amitar.com.au From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 08:14:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA06439 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pernet.net (mail.pernet.net [205.229.0.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06366 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.pernet.net (office.pernet.net [205.229.0.2]) by mail.pernet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA05842; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:21:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:11:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Neal Reply-To: neal@pernet.net To: Michael Slater cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pop3 Radius In-Reply-To: <3356358C.41C67EA6@amitar.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You know, as much call as there is for "this that or the other" with radius code, you'd think someone would have written a library by now. I know that Merit Radius has client code, maybe someone could look at making a library from it?(I'm working on something kin to this, but my C skills are ...um... rough to say the least). On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Slater wrote: > Hello, > Is anyone aware of a patch that will allow a the in.pop3d daemon > to validate users through a radius server ? > > If so, i would appriciate hearing about it. > > > regards, > > Michael Slater > slaterm@sol.amitar.com.au > > -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 08:33:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA12241 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.intercenter.net (mir.intercenter.net [207.211.128.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12199 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10559 invoked from network); 17 Apr 1997 15:33:46 -0000 Received: from bigboy.intercenter.net (207.211.128.17) by mir.intercenter.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 1997 15:33:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:33:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Ron Bickers To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, > they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material > on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting Blockbuster doesn't have an X-rated movie section. Does that mean they're editing material? No. I'm not a lawyer either, but not carrying a.b.p.e is not "editing" anything, it's simply making it not available at all. There's nothing illegal about that. > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. I second that. It's out of control. Wonder what kind of bandwidth would be freed up if that were to happen. --- Ron From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 08:48:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA13019 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.multinet.net (house.multinet.net [204.138.173.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13011 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from graydon@localhost) by house.multinet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA12059; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:47:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:47:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon Hoare ()" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: the reason there is a scare over these things is that some ISPs and (in particular) university campus admins 'silently dropped' services which they had objections to, by other people. Like the anti-porn-group tells the admin to drop the porn-group.. then it gets political, and usually some admin who just wanted everyone to shut up and go away gets caught with the responsibility of having 'made the decision' (i.e. being the only person who knows how to change the config files) I do not believe there is actually any legal leg to stand on when attempting to sue an ISP for editing content, so long as the subscriber knows it's a possible turn of events when they sign on. It would be like trying to sue the phone company for having different rate schemes to keep international traffic rates down. you're not violating anyone's first amendment rights or anything, and if they don't like your policy they can always find some _other_ news server.. Just make it clear when establishing your contract with them that you are not agreeing to give them every last byte ever posted to usenet (which isn't possible anyway) and you are acting totally within your contractual agreement to. Public libraries don't agree to carry porn, why should your news server? > > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > even though there isn't really a difference between a message and a file, you're probably right from a legal standpoint.. particularly in light of the enhanced multicast capabilities a lot of equipment is proposing for the next revisions, the whole traffic scheme will continue to shift. hopefully away from netnews ;) who knows? maybe usenet will someday calm down and become useful again. -graydon From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 08:50:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA13144 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kremvax.demos.su (kremvax.demos.su [194.87.0.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA13084; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kremvax.demos.su (8.6.13/D) from 667@skraldespand.demos.su [194.87.0.19] with ESMTP id TAA12054; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:48:04 +0400 Received: by skraldespand.demos.su id TAA19701; (8.8.5/D) Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:48:57 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199704171548.TAA19701@skraldespand.demos.su> Subject: FreeBSD vs other platforms? X-ELM-OSV: (Our standard violations) no-mime=1; no-hdr-encoding=1 To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:48:56 +0400 (MSD) Cc: isp@freebsd.org, ache@nagual.ru (Andrey A. Chernov) From: "Mikhail A. Sokolov" X-Class: Fast Organization: Demos Company, Ltd. Reply-To: mishania@demos.su X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, My question is awfully simple and complicated also: I wonder if anyone in this world collected/tryed to collect statistics on the world usage of various platforms in networking applications, like, providing internet services (www/ftp/dns/dhcp/)? Without any doubt I'd mention, that we're willing to consider *BSD (open, net, free, BSD/OS) to be one united field of calculations. Seems like I have to explain the situation: as it always happening in pretty huge ISP on the market, we have two 'technological' platforms, Suns and *BSD. And as it's always happening, there's confrontation starting between those admins of above mentioned platforms, say, for funding, after several years of successful work on both types of servers/OS's (we're 8 years on the market of Russian ISP already). We are interested to gather (start ourselves) analysis on the topic of _comparison_ (er, how is it spelled? ;-)) on frequency of the usage of different OS's/platforms on highly loaded servers, like innd/nntp, httpd, ftpd, named and other data terminals, like shell access machines... Thanks, -mishania From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 08:51:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA13215 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13202 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from knudde (knudde.simplex.nl [193.78.46.27]) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5-RS) with SMTP id RAA19399; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:48:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:48:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199704171548.RAA19399@xs1.simplex.nl> X-Sender: maartje@pop.simplex.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Dillon From: Maartje van der Heide Subject: Re: News... Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, >Why do this? Germany just laid charges against Compuserve for distributing >porn. Australia announced plans to target child porn and to ask OECD >countries to join it. Canada's national police force has asked ISP's to In the Netherlands since june 1995 the ISP's organized, we have The Dutch foundation of Internet providers (NLIP). I think providers in other countries should organize too. One of the most important goals of the NLIP has been to inform the goverment about what Internet is and what Internet is not. This has proven to be very successful, there has been alot of influence on the goverment and journalists knew where to go when they had questions, so the dutch people were informed much better then before. The few laws that are made for the internet here now are hardly restrictive for internet users and ISP's , the goverment has (as far as I know) no intensions to make restrictive laws or put pressure upon ISP's. One of the initiatives of the NLIP has been the 'Internet Hotline against child pornography' .(http://www.xs4al.nl/~meldpunt) This as well has had alot of positive effects and influence. In the Netherlands now we're far better off as ISP's (and internet community) then in quite alot of countries all over the world, and informing the goverment, and the people, is one of the most important things to do. Don't let them panic. I've been wondering for some time how the get ISP's let themselves organize in other countries, so decided to mail this on the list, hope it'll have some positive effect. Sorry if you find this mail too off-topic. (ban-ban ? :) Btw does anyone have a nice solution to reset the machines when they hang from behind the computer at home? I don't like to bike up and down only to push a button, they crash too often nowadays. I found something (relais or whatever it's called) but the software is for Windows/DOS . Maartje van der Heide sysop Simplex maartje@simplex.nl From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 09:13:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17806 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17797 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA05992; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:12:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA29897; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:12:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Pete Carah cc: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net (Jacob Suter), isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:55:34 PDT." <199704170755.AAA13430@ns.altadena.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:12:36 -0400 Message-ID: <29895.861293556@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pete Carah wrote in message ID <199704170755.AAA13430@ns.altadena.net>: > > After looking over recent messages about news servers, it appears as if > > NNTP is a very wasteful use of system resources. Has there been any > > advances in the replacement of this waste-o-bandwidth? > > Not to speak of the net itself; we (not a particularly major player, > but we get independent feeds from 3 of the "top 1k") are currently > getting between 1 and 2 gb/day in, the great majority (all but about 300mb) Your lucky. Most `full feed' sites average 5 gigs a day, with 7 gigs a day not unusual over fri/sat and towards the end of the month (end of the month? wonder why ... what happens at the end of the month? OH! FreeNIX computations! I wonder if some sites are DELIBERATELY spamming to up their ratings artificially *SIGH*) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 09:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17854 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17847 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA06170; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA29944; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:13:55 -0400 (EDT) To: michael@blueneptune.com cc: pete@ns.altadena.net (Pete Carah), jsuter@linus.intrastar.net, isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:39:02 PDT." <199704170839.BAA25640@rainey.blueneptune.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:13:55 -0400 Message-ID: <29942.861293635@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk michael@blueneptune.com wrote in message ID <199704170839.BAA25640@rainey.blueneptune.com>: > It's pretty simple to write a quick script which will go through the > news spool and remove all files of a particular size, or at least > report to you what they are. We don't run one on a regular basis, > but will run it to clear out some space if the news disk starts to > fill up and cause problems. It's even easier to write a channel feed which gets the headers of all messages over (x) bytes in size and auto-cancels them. Or with inn 1.5 it may even be possible in the perl/tcl hooks (I don't think so tho) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 09:49:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20041 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup55.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20034 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02325 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:57:19 -0600 Message-ID: <33563A4E.7494CECB@denverweb.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:57:18 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ron Bickers wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > > > A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, > > they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material > > on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting > > Blockbuster doesn't have an X-rated movie section. Does that mean they're > editing material? No. I'm not a lawyer either, but not carrying a.b.p.e > is not "editing" anything, it's simply making it not available at all. > There's nothing illegal about that. Yep. it's your server. Kinda like opening an italian restraunt. If someone bitches cause you don't serve chinese, they would be considered a bit loopy. > > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > > I second that. It's out of control. Wonder what kind of bandwidth would > be freed up if that were to happen. > > --- > Ron Man, that has to be a LOT of bandwidth, not to mention disk space. So... How could the ISP's get the ball rolling on enforcing the newsgroups to carry only text based news. Then the issue of crossposting.... that really is a pain in the ass. I would wager that 95% of crossposted articles are posted to irrelevant groups. If we could fix this nonsense, and only carry non crossposted articles, that would also free up some bandwidth. ( not to mention stopping a lot of spam. ) Crosspoting _WAS_ a good idea when it was relevant and everything was pretty much academia and military. We have come a long way since the "old days". Now it is mostly abuse of the concept by clueless morons, spamming the world. Just make the people that want the binary and sex stuff go and GET it, rather than having it delivered to every news machine on the net. On a slightly different note: I feel that more regulation of some sort WILL come to the net. There is too much commerce, and too many dollars involved for the political theives to ignore. They will soon be trying to find ways to tax and regulate us into the ground. I think our best defense is to be involved in the process preemptivly. If regulation is going to come, WHO do you want to be invlolved in actually writing the laws? Congressmen without a clue, or congressmen with some input from the industry? Lets stay regulation free as long as possible, but, when they do turn their greedy eye at us, we need to be organized enough to have input, and make the regulations actually be to our benefit. Large corporations, such as AOL, and compu$erve, AT&T, MCI, etc. WILL be buying influence. And you can bet that if they can find a way to have more control over the net as a whole, they will slant everything that way. They don't really care about content. They are only interested in how much money they can make.... if that means squishing the little guys with regulations that they can survive, so be it. ( an example, if my fish get sick, and I have to treat with copper medication, it kills the tiny organisms... copper is poison to fish also, but they can survive the exposure more so than the tiny critters. ) Oh well... back to work. Y'all have a good weekend. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 09:52:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20263 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20258 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA12191; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA09550; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:51:07 -0400 (EDT) To: Ron Bickers cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:33:46 EDT." Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:51:06 -0400 Message-ID: <9548.861295866@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ron Bickers wrote in message ID : > > A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, > > they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material > > on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting > Blockbuster doesn't have an X-rated movie section. Does that mean they're > editing material? No. I'm not a lawyer either, but not carrying a.b.p.e > is not "editing" anything, it's simply making it not available at all. > There's nothing illegal about that. Depends. A lot of ISP's advertise `unlimited' access. It can be legally questionable to start deleting newsgroups if you advertised that. And it could be awkward if you changed your advertising before you changed your group listing, as people from the old ad campaign would still get rather pissed. On the other hand, my point of view is that carrying these groups is a legal liability. ``unlimited internet'' does NOT mean ``unlimited license to break state and federal law on distribution of pornography''. That's one thing that lusers always seem to forget, is that SOMEONE (typically not them) is liable for the availability of such `information', and in the end it's their right to pull it since it's their neck on the line. Or put it another way, I'd say ``would you rather lose the porn groups now or the entire server(s) when we get raided by the state police for illegal pornography distribution??'' > > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > I second that. It's out of control. Wonder what kind of bandwidth would > be freed up if that were to happen. >From my feed log from Mar 30 (the highest volume I've ever registered on my server): Usenet Statistics (1997/03/29 - 1997/03/30) Total feed size: 7189.87 Mb in 244236 articles over 1.00 days Average daily rate: 7190.03 Mb, 244241 articles Top 20 newsgroup hierarchies by article size Rank Key Size/day (Mb) %age of total 1 alt 6919.14 96.23 2 alt.binaries 6070.56 84.43 3 alt.binaries.pictures 2768.54 38.51 4 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica 2193.74 30.51 5 alt.binaries.warez 1165.76 16.21 6 alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc 1108.81 15.42 7 alt.binaries.games 893.78 12.43 8 alt.binaries.multimedia 490.09 6.82 9 alt.binaries.multimedia.erotica 438.19 6.09 10 alt.sex 358.78 4.99 11 alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.games 243.04 3.38 12 alt.binaries.sounds 233.14 3.24 13 alt.binaries.mac 231.41 3.22 14 alt.binaries.mac.applications 226.32 3.15 15 alt.binaries.pictures.erotic 205.80 2.86 16 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.teen 196.65 2.74 17 alt.binaries.pictures.erotic.centerfolds 186.64 2.60 18 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.admiralkrag 173.69 2.42 19 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.blondes 148.77 2.07 20 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.teen.female 139.61 1.94 (note: there was an alledgedly higher throughput this last weekend, but server problems kept my machine unreliable enough that I didn't catch it) So, thats roughly 2 gig of porn. Multiply that by all the news boxes in the world. Then add in the disk usage. Then add in the overhead added with all the IHAVE/CHECK commands. Then add in the larger history causing more processor/disk/memory to be thrown in the box. Not forgetting overviews. The porn spammers probably cost the average ISP $1 per reader per year in hardware upgrades just 'cos of their spam (that's NOT including any additional internal bandwidth). That's not including the `legit' porn. I'd say that if the porn was taken off the net tomorrow, the performance of my server would double within 2 weeks (the length of time my /remember/ is set to) (maybe a bit shorter if I get really pissed and rebuild my history file :) ). And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole reason. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 09:58:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA20770 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.multinet.net (house.multinet.net [204.138.173.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20762 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from graydon@localhost) by house.multinet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA12460; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:58:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:58:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon Hoare ()" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: oops! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk oops I just realized I inserted text before quoting, making it look like I'm putting words in Michael Dillon's mouth sorry! From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 10:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23177 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA23171 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA02493 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:28:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07126 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:23:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:23:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Graydon Hoare () wrote: > > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > even though there isn't really a difference between a message and a file, There are two clear differences. A message consists of legible text in some language or other but a file does not. For instance Compare the two following lines. Which is a message and which is a file? Rira bien qui rira le dernier MPPS"$Q//$P?##,D#Q0P'PA,&!Q(3`A$"$P,.`@[#$Q(3#Q,/PQ(#`@,"!P," This is readily discernible by both humans and by automated programs. The second difference is size. A message is much shorter than a file. Even a long message on USENET is far less bytes than the average small file. So if you apply those two criteria together, i.e. have an auto-recognizer that will delete UUencode and Base64 messages as well as delete any message larger than a certain threshold, all you will have left is relatively plain text messages. They may be ASCII or ISO8859-2 or HTML but they are messages. > who knows? maybe usenet will someday calm down and become useful again. I think it can happen. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:12:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28261 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28250; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-68.rust.net [206.42.195.168]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12236; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335675FD.4199@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:11:57 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: Ron Bickers , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: <9548.861295866@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > Ron Bickers wrote in message ID > : > > > A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, > > > they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material > > > on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting > > > Blockbuster doesn't have an X-rated movie section. Does that mean they're > > editing material? No. I'm not a lawyer either, but not carrying a.b.p.e > > is not "editing" anything, it's simply making it not available at all. > > There's nothing illegal about that. > > Depends. A lot of ISP's advertise `unlimited' access. It can be > legally questionable to start deleting newsgroups if you advertised > that. And it could be awkward if you changed your advertising before > you changed your group listing, as people from the old ad campaign > would still get rather pissed. > > On the other hand, my point of view is that carrying these groups is a > legal liability. ``unlimited internet'' does NOT mean ``unlimited > license to break state and federal law on distribution of > pornography''. That's one thing that lusers always seem to forget, is > that SOMEONE (typically not them) is liable for the availability of > such `information', and in the end it's their right to pull it since > it's their neck on the line. Or put it another way, I'd say ``would > you rather lose the porn groups now or the entire server(s) when we > get raided by the state police for illegal pornography > distribution??'' Has _anyone_ in this thread read about the Prodigy decision? As I understand it, the ruling was that *only if you censor some messages* do you become liable for others that sneak into other newsgroups, otherwise you are simply acting as a distributor and do not have the duty to scan each and every message in all newsgroups you allow. Of course if you delete on the basia of size or UUEncoded content this might not be true. If done universally. Dumb law, IMHO, but - law. [snip] > > And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the > porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick > people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole > reason. Data? Those stats? I could believe that in MB downloaded the alt.binaries.erotica groups would be the most popular. The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are obvious of course! From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:19:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28480 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28468 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA09820; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA24452; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:18:24 -0400 (EDT) To: danlaw@rust.net cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:11:57 EDT." <335675FD.4199@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:18:21 -0400 Message-ID: <24405.861304701@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sysadmin wrote in message ID <335675FD.4199@rust.net>: > > And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the > > porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick > > people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole > > reason. > Data? Those stats? I could believe that in MB downloaded the > alt.binaries.erotica groups would be the most popular. Nope. Results of processing /var/log/nntp to get nnrpd stats... i'm not stupid enough to believe that our lusers actually have exactly the same preference as the spammers. > The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are > obvious of course! *shrug* I wonder how many AOL users know that the AOL proxy denies access to certain sites? (If I remember right) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:29:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28932 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mirage.nlink.com.br (mirage.nlink.com.br [200.238.120.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28924 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mirage.nlink.com.br (mirage.nlink.com.br [200.238.120.3]) by mirage.nlink.com.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11853 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:28:23 -0300 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:28:23 -0300 (EST) From: Paulo Fragoso To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: loading balancing with pppd! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I try to implement loading balancing with two modems USR Courrier 33.6Kbps is it possible? Some one told me that in WinNT4.0 & Linux it's possible. I have FreeBSD 2.1.7 box and would like to make this. Are there any problem with latency in this modems. Thanks, Paulo. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:37:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29374 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29369 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA13095; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA28664; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:36:15 -0400 (EDT) To: Maartje van der Heide cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:48:06 +0200." <199704171548.RAA19399@xs1.simplex.nl> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: <28661.861305772@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Maartje van der Heide wrote in message ID <199704171548.RAA19399@xs1.simplex.nl>: > were informed much better then before. The few laws that are made > for the internet here now are hardly restrictive for internet users > and ISP's , the goverment has (as far as I know) no intensions to > make restrictive laws or put pressure upon ISP's. You forget. This is America. The Govt doesn't care what you do, as long as it controlls it (c.f. the key-escrow farce). The land of freedom (to be controlled by the people you alledgely elect). All I can say is I will never trust a government which blatantly lies about the (alledged) non-existance of the worlds longest runway. And the top secret research centre which does not live alongside it. > One of the initiatives of the NLIP has been the 'Internet > Hotline against child pornography' .(http://www.xs4al.nl/~meldpunt) > This as well has had alot of positive effects and influence. Kinda funny that ... xs4al.nl is/was hosting a porn spammer. > Btw does anyone have a nice solution to reset the machines > when they hang from behind the computer at home? I don't like > to bike up and down only to push a button, they crash too > often nowadays. I found something (relais or whatever it's > called) but the software is for Windows/DOS . X-TEN power controllers. Or have a machine with a bunch of specially wired modems. The on-hook relay on the modem is wired to the reset switch. Simply connect to the right modem, try to dial, and viola, one reset pc. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:44:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29723 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29714; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-68.rust.net [206.42.195.168]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15997; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33567D7D.7DF1@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:43:57 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: <24405.861304701@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: [snip] > > > The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are > > obvious of course! > > *shrug* I wonder how many AOL users know that the AOL proxy denies > access to certain sites? (If I remember right) Nope. They simply do not call those to the Lusers' attention by providing a text description. The "expert add" function allows adding the groups by entering the actual newsgroup name. I gather that they do this to avoid legal problems like Prodigy had they decided to censor messages. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:46:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29809 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29801 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA14919; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA01324; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:45:48 -0400 (EDT) To: danlaw@rust.net cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:43:57 EDT." <33567D7D.7DF1@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:45:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1322.861306348@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sysadmin wrote in message ID <33567D7D.7DF1@rust.net>: > Gary Palmer wrote: > [snip] > > > > > The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are > > > obvious of course! > > > > *shrug* I wonder how many AOL users know that the AOL proxy denies > > access to certain sites? (If I remember right) > > Nope. They simply do not call those to the Lusers' attention by > providing a text description. The "expert add" function allows > adding the groups by entering the actual newsgroup name. Sorry, I was referring to WWW sites. I remember reading somewhere that a WWW site claimed it was inaccessible from AOL as they deemed the content unsuitable. Can't remember where, sorry. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:48:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29946 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29929; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-68.rust.net [206.42.195.168]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA16444; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33567E57.1DBA@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:47:35 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: <24405.861304701@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > Sysadmin wrote in message ID > <335675FD.4199@rust.net>: > > > And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the > > > porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick > > > people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole > > > reason. > > > Data? Those stats? I could believe that in MB downloaded the > > alt.binaries.erotica groups would be the most popular. > > Nope. Results of processing /var/log/nntp to get nnrpd stats... i'm > not stupid enough to believe that our lusers actually have exactly the > same preference as the spammers. Sorry, I thought you meant the *reader*'s stats! Privacy problems collecting those, of course! From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 12:57:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00682 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00675 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA16965; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id PAA04395; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:56:46 -0400 (EDT) To: danlaw@rust.net cc: Ron Bickers , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:11:57 EDT." <335675FD.4199@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:56:45 -0400 Message-ID: <4393.861307005@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sysadmin wrote in message ID <335675FD.4199@rust.net>: > Has _anyone_ in this thread read about the Prodigy decision? Reference / URL would be handy at this point.... Thanks, Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 13:16:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01852 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01847 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by cold.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA05801 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:16:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org Subject: POS Port software (was: Credit Card software) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We've decided to open our Visa POS port software to the market. However, from a market standpoint at the moment it is still in an alpha stage. Therefore, we are going to open it up for alpha release. Basically, you can get it for free as an alpha tester (we are only going to have a limited amount of alpha testers), including the source code. However, you have to be able to use it. The server currently works in FreeBSD (where I developed it) and Digital Unix. It features: * fully functional POS port communication through the serial device * multi-connection network support, handling multiple different merchant IDs. * You can either do transactions direct or through batches. * basic 'login' authorization with a name/password for each merchant. * A simple database (through ndbm) for recording 'critical' transactions incase an error happens before the response is acknowledged by the client (the use of this in a request is optional). If you want to be an alpha tester, you must: * ALREADY HAVE a Visa POS port--I can't help you get one, that is up to you--talk to your bank or financial provider. * Know C, as well as networking and database programming in unix--I will be relying upon your help with bug fixes--nothing in life is 'free' even though the server will be free for you 8) * Knowledge of Credit Card transactions an processing. This server will not provide hooks into the database--it provices access to the POS port through a TCP/IP connection--which you should have SECURED from public access. If you are still interested, send email to brandon@sunrem.com, include the following information: * what interface you will be using for the POS port (i.e. database, such as Oracle or whatnot) * Information about the machine it will be running on--how is it connected (if at all) to the internet? * Your (or the programmer who will be working with it) credentials, i.e. just something explaining your knowledge in C and this area. I will respond to all requests. -Brandon Gillespie Systems Administrator, Sun Remarketing From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 13:30:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02885 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02876; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA06412; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:30:50 -0700 (PDT) To: "Gary Palmer" cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:36:12 EDT." <28661.861305772@orion.webspan.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: <6410.861309049@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All I can say is I will never trust a government which blatantly lies > about the (alledged) non-existance of the worlds longest runway. And > the top secret research centre which does not live alongside it. Oh joy, what *is* it about freebsd-isp this week which seems to invite all these weirdly divergent topics?? :-) And besides, if you distrust governments who lie, you should be equally quick to distrust your own. :-) Go to Porton Down sometime and ask about the biological weapons research there (some of which has rendered a few small scottish islands uninhabitable for the next 99 years with Antrax spores). You will be told that there is no such facility, the British government does not do biowar research and that those islands do not exist. This is despite all the books and documentaries which have been produced over the last 30 years which show exactly what's been going on over there. After you're done with that, go poking around the GCHQ and see if you can get yourself arrested for asking questions. :-) And we won't even START talking about British covert operations in the republic of Ireland (none of which, needless to say, are officially admitted to :-). Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 13:35:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03303 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarpon.exis.net (stefan@tarpon.exis.net [205.252.72.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03298 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (stefan@localhost) by tarpon.exis.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA31065; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:31:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: tarpon.exis.net: stefan owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:31:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Molnar To: Paulo Fragoso cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loading balancing with pppd! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I try to implement loading balancing with two modems USR Courrier > 33.6Kbps is it possible? Some one told me that in WinNT4.0 & Linux it's > possible. > > I have FreeBSD 2.1.7 box and would like to make this. Are there any > problem with latency in this modems. It is called Multi-Link PPP, look in the /incoming section under the FreeBSD dir on ftp.freebsd.org. I belive the file is called mpd Stefan -------------------------------------------- Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net stefan@exis.net Member EFF Team OS/2 east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 13:43:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03724 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03715 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17456; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:43:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Maartje van der Heide cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <28661.861305772@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Btw does anyone have a nice solution to reset the machines > when they hang from behind the computer at home? I don't like > to bike up and down only to push a button, they crash too > often nowadays. I found something (relais or whatever it's > called) but the software is for Windows/DOS . We use Tele-boot boxes, which let us reboot by calling a phone line that plugs into the box, and lets us toggle any one of the 5 outlets. There's supposed to be a way to control up to 5 boxes with a single phone line, but I can't find it in the manual. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 14:04:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05501 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.multinet.net (house.multinet.net [204.138.173.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05489 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from graydon@localhost) by house.multinet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA13660; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:04:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:04:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon Hoare ()" To: Michael Dillon cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > Rira bien qui rira le dernier > MPPS"$Q//$P?##,D#Q0P'PA,&!Q(3`A$"$P,.`@[#$Q(3#Q,/PQ(#`@,"!P," Yet surely you know that, with a couple hours programming, I can make an 'encoder' which chooses the 65,536 most popular (small) sentences from usenet and uses them as an 'alphabet' with which to XXencode binaries. They'd be a little bigger, but then, base64 is a little bigger than binary too. And any scanner/parser would then be faced with having to read a great deal of the traffic and do extensive analysis. > This is readily discernible by both humans and by automated programs. if the encoding is well-marked, this is true. It all comes down to whether the time taken to cull is less than the time taken in the long run to accept the file and serve it. I imagine with today's traffic it is highly advantageous to cull XXencodings, but this will not always be the case. > I think it can happen. I agree. I think the best method for implementing a saner usenet is to dump the alt. hierarchy and flesh out the others, and make comprehensible rulesets for postings that servers can enforce (i.e. no more than X from a person in a day, no more than X in a single posting -- would help with spammers too) -graydon From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 14:25:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07070 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from minimall.imm.com (harty@minimall.imm.com [205.235.129.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07065 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from harty@localhost) by minimall.imm.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA10619; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Brook Harty To: David Langford cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Credit Card software In-Reply-To: <199704152324.NAA08644@caliban.dihelix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have/sell IC-Verify for unix. So i recommend IC-Verify. (note) We also have some CGI's for isp's so thier customers can do realtime transactions with security features. -Brook Harty iw@imm.com www.noncash.com (509) 747-1732 On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, David Langford wrote: > > Does anyone use and recommend and Credit Card processing software > to debit account that runs under FreeBSD? > > Thanks, > > -David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 15:50:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12104 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12097 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA13458; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:49:28 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:49:27 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Paulo Fragoso cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loading balancing with pppd! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Paulo Fragoso wrote: > Hi, > > I try to implement loading balancing with two modems USR Courrier > 33.6Kbps is it possible? Some one told me that in WinNT4.0 & Linux it's > possible. > > I have FreeBSD 2.1.7 box and would like to make this. Are there any > problem with latency in this modems. Use ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.0b.tgz Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 16:18:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13989 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.vividnet.com (mail.vividnet.com [206.149.144.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13983 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by mail.vividnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09611; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Wang To: Michael Slater cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pop3 Radius In-Reply-To: <3356358C.41C67EA6@amitar.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a home made patch based on merit radius code for popper2.2, which does basic password authentication off a radius server. E-mail me if you like a copy. Sincerely, Brian Wang On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Slater wrote: > Hello, > Is anyone aware of a patch that will allow a the in.pop3d daemon > to validate users through a radius server ? > > If so, i would appriciate hearing about it. > > > regards, > > Michael Slater > slaterm@sol.amitar.com.au > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 17:31:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18915 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18910 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA10158 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:31:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA10790 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:26:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <33563A4E.7494CECB@denverweb.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > I think our best defense is to be involved in the process preemptivly. > If regulation is going to come, WHO do you want to be invlolved in > actually writing the laws? > Congressmen without a clue, or congressmen with some input from the > industry? It just so happens that I am on the board of directors of the ISP/C http://www.ispc.org which is attempting to represent the interests of the independent ISP industry. We are a non-profit member-run trade association. The reason I brought up this whole subject is that we do get tips about what politicians and telcos are up to. Where we can we help to explain how things REALLY are. But one of those tips recently was that there is a move by some police forces to gather evidence in preparation for laying charges. Of course, we can't be sure how accurate this is but it stands to reason that sooner or later there will be a test case to establish whether child pornography stored on an ISP's news server is subject to the laws of the land or not. My personal view happens to be that ISP's have good reason to get rid of USENET binaries entirely because USENET is the most labor intensive task most ISP's will undertake, consumes the most hardware and the most bandwidth for the smallest benefits, i.e. the percentage of customers that read news regularly is low. Of course this is just my opinion. > Lets stay regulation free as long as possible, but, when they do turn > their greedy eye > at us, we need to be organized enough to have input, and make the > regulations > actually be to our benefit. It is hard to get ISP's organized. I don't know why people won't join a trade association but so far it has been tough slogging. However the ISP/C has made a lot of accomplishments in our first year and we do have 45-50 members and some nice member discount programs like the Livingston one announced this week. But the primary reason to join a trade association is to be ready when government regulators decide to attack. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 17:37:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA19271 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19264 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA10299 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:37:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA10838 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:32:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:32:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <335675FD.4199@rust.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > Has _anyone_ in this thread read about the Prodigy decision? Prodigy was editting the content of messages. > As I understand it, the ruling was that *only if you censor some > messages* > do you become liable for others that sneak into other newsgroups, > otherwise you are simply acting as a distributor and do not have the > duty to scan each and every message in all newsgroups you allow. > > Of course if you delete on the basia of size or UUEncoded content this > might not be true. If done universally. That's right. I'm suggesting that we merely weed out the junk that should not be in the USENET DISCUSSION GROUPS regardless of content. In other words, if it is an encoded file, delete it regardless of whether it is a UUencoded tar archive of program source code or a Base64 encode JPEG of an F-16 fighter. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 18:15:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21776 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.xtalwind.net (slipper5a.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21758; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (zeus.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by zeus.xtalwind.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03105; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:15:23 -0400 (EDT) From: jack X-Sender: jack@zeus.xtalwind.net To: Gary Palmer cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <29942.861293635@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > > michael@blueneptune.com wrote in message ID > <199704170839.BAA25640@rainey.blueneptune.com>: > > It's pretty simple to write a quick script which will go through the > > news spool and remove all files of a particular size, or at least > > report to you what they are. We don't run one on a regular basis, > > but will run it to clear out some space if the news disk starts to > > fill up and cause problems. > > It's even easier to write a channel feed which gets the headers of all > messages over (x) bytes in size and auto-cancels them. Or with inn 1.5 > it may even be possible in the perl/tcl hooks (I don't think so tho) %man inetd(8) {1.5.1 from ports} [snip] OPTIONS [snip] -l To limit the size of an article, use the ``-l'' flag. If this flag is used, then any article big- ger than size bytes will be rejected. The default is no checking, which can also be obtained by using a value of zero. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Finger jacko@diamond.xtalwind.net or jack@xtalwind.net http://www.xtalwind.net/~jacko/pubpgp.html #include for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 18:19:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22064 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22056 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19197; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, "David K. Phinney" Subject: Re: tele-boot device In-Reply-To: <199704180104.SAA04006@lithium.dowco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, David K. Phinney wrote: > Hi, I saw your posting in freebsd-isp and was wondering where I may be > able to get one of these 'tele-boot' devices? > > Thanks for any possible help, Since there has been a couple of people asking, here's the info and a better explanation. USA Communications Corp 493-9 Johnson Ave. Bohemia, New York 11716 (516) 244-6851 The model 450 is what I discuss here. Sorry I don't have a price, I think it was in the $300 range, but I could be way off either way. It's a box that looks like those under-the-monitor power control consoles with 5 outlets on the rear, and 6 switches (one for each outlet, and one master), but it has a pair of phone jacks in the back. A phone line goes into one of them, and the other can go to a phone or whatever, though I don't know if the whatever can take calls (I think so, but we use dedicated phone lines to avoid busies). You can then use any phone to call into the box, give a 4 digit security code, then the 5th digit tells the console which of the 5 outlets to power cycle (power stays off for about 15 seconds). From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 18:24:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22338 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22327 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA11228 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:24:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA11226 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Graydon Hoare () wrote: > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > > > Rira bien qui rira le dernier > > MPPS"$Q//$P?##,D#Q0P'PA,&!Q(3`A$"$P,.`@[#$Q(3#Q,/PQ(#`@,"!P," > > Yet surely you know that, with a couple hours programming, I can make an > 'encoder' which chooses the 65,536 most popular (small) sentences from > usenet and uses them as an 'alphabet' with which to XXencode binaries. > They'd be a little bigger, but then, base64 is a little bigger than binary > too. And any scanner/parser would then be faced with having to read a > great deal of the traffic and do extensive analysis. If it is not easy for people or their newsreaders to recognize a binary posting then this would only be of academic interest because very few people would ever bother to post such messages. And the net effect would be the same as find / -print |xargs cat -tv |post-em-all where post-em-all splits the stream into short pieces and spews it into an NNTP server. > > I think it can happen. > > I agree. I think the best method for implementing a saner usenet is to > dump the alt. hierarchy and flesh out the others, and make comprehensible > rulesets for postings that servers can enforce (i.e. no more than X from > a person in a day, no more than X in a single posting -- would help with > spammers too) alt.* has a lot of useful stuff in it. For instance alt.conspiracy makes great entertainment. But I think you are right that the trend is to more formal management of Internet services and maybe we should be moving towards a formal structure for managing USENET. Most of this is already in place, it just isn't formalized in some sort of international organization. However, this would not happen quickly. I think it would take at least two years of public discussions to hash out the details. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 18:58:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23863 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mirage.nlink.com.br (mirage.nlink.com.br [200.238.120.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23844 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from luiz@localhost) by mirage.nlink.com.br (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19860; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:56:20 -0300 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:56:19 -0300 (EST) From: Luiz de Barros To: Stefan Molnar cc: Paulo Fragoso , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: loading balancing with pppd! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, Would it work with 33.6 V.42 Links or are we going to have problems because o high channel latency ( delay )? Luiz On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Stefan Molnar wrote: > > > I try to implement loading balancing with two modems USR Courrier > > 33.6Kbps is it possible? Some one told me that in WinNT4.0 & Linux it's > > possible. > > > > I have FreeBSD 2.1.7 box and would like to make this. Are there any > > problem with latency in this modems. > > It is called Multi-Link PPP, look in the /incoming section under > the FreeBSD dir on ftp.freebsd.org. I belive the file is called > mpd > > Stefan > > -------------------------------------------- > Stefan Molnar Team Exis.Net > stefan@exis.net Member EFF > Team OS/2 > east-coast-ambassador@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU > -------------------------------------------- > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 19:54:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27136 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27131; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-48.rust.net [206.42.195.148]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01079; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3356E259.528F@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:54:17 -0400 From: Norm Mackey Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: michael@blueneptune.com, Pete Carah , jsuter@linus.intrastar.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <29942.861293635@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > michael@blueneptune.com wrote in message ID > <199704170839.BAA25640@rainey.blueneptune.com>: > > It's pretty simple to write a quick script which will go through the > > news spool and remove all files of a particular size, or at least > > report to you what they are. We don't run one on a regular basis, > > but will run it to clear out some space if the news disk starts to > > fill up and cause problems. > > It's even easier to write a channel feed which gets the headers of all > messages over (x) bytes in size and auto-cancels them. Or with inn 1.5 > it may even be possible in the perl/tcl hooks (I don't think so tho) I hope by "auto cancel" you mean "removes them from the feed", not the "tell the internet to delete someone else's post" definition for "cancels". From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:01:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27476 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27471 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA14622; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:00:06 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:00:05 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Luiz de Barros cc: Stefan Molnar , Paulo Fragoso , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loading balancing with pppd! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Luiz de Barros wrote: > Hi All, > > Would it work with 33.6 V.42 Links or are we going to have problems > because o high channel latency ( delay )? I have a 3-channel and three 2-channel links using these modems. Works great. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:11:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28109 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28102; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA06847; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:13:08 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006813; Fri Apr 18 03:12:37 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417220430.00ba8d44@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:04:30 -0500 To: "Gary Palmer" From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:51 PM 4/17/97 -0400, Gary Palmer wrote: --snip-- >Depends. A lot of ISP's advertise `unlimited' access. It can be >legally questionable to start deleting newsgroups if you advertised >that. And it could be awkward if you changed your advertising before >you changed your group listing, as people from the old ad campaign >would still get rather pissed. Usually the implied point is unlimited (time), thanks to someone's working on another list, the fine print will read "Unmetered Interactive Usage" in 5 hour blocks. One place that want to change to block limits is in a bit of a quandary, but we went from metered to 5 hours blocks. >On the other hand, my point of view is that carrying these groups is a >legal liability. ``unlimited internet'' does NOT mean ``unlimited >license to break state and federal law on distribution of >pornography''. That's one thing that lusers always seem to forget, is >that SOMEONE (typically not them) is liable for the availability of >such `information', and in the end it's their right to pull it since >it's their neck on the line. Or put it another way, I'd say ``would >you rather lose the porn groups now or the entire server(s) when we >get raided by the state police for illegal pornography >distribution??'' Arg, putting the blame on the ISP is ludicrous, as think of how much time it would take to check all web and ftp sites, as well as news. After doing a find for graphic and compressed files, they would have to be examined. Messages posted to news (assuming we would be responsible for just our customers postings) would have to be checked. etc, etc NOT! >> > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to >> > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > >> I second that. It's out of control. Wonder what kind of bandwidth would >> be freed up if that were to happen. > >>From my feed log from Mar 30 (the highest volume I've ever registered >on my server): > >Usenet Statistics (1997/03/29 - 1997/03/30) --snip-- Ouch! That is a lot of trash to take out. >And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the >porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick >people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole >reason. What most users don't know is that you can easily find out who pulled what and I can picture someone calling "Is something wrong with news?" 'Why?' "I don't see anything new in the groups I look at" 'Hold on' (checks things out...) 'Sorry, but alt.binary.teen* are gone.' At least it doesn't take long to find who spammed news. Now mail... ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:26:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28650 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28645 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA08023; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:23:53 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007997; Fri Apr 18 03:23:42 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417221535.00ba8d44@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:15:35 -0500 To: danlaw@rust.net From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:11 PM 4/17/97 -0400, Sysadmin wrote: --snip-- >Has _anyone_ in this thread read about the Prodigy decision? > >As I understand it, the ruling was that *only if you censor some >messages* >do you become liable for others that sneak into other newsgroups, >otherwise you are simply acting as a distributor and do not have the >duty to scan each and every message in all newsgroups you allow. > >Of course if you delete on the basia of size or UUEncoded content this >might not be true. If done universally. > >Dumb law, IMHO, but - law. >[snip] > >> >> And you know what the REALLY sad part is? Reader stats show that the >> porn-of-questionably-aged-people is the most popular. There are sick >> people out there. And most of them are on the net for that sole >> reason. > >Data? Those stats? I could believe that in MB downloaded the >alt.binaries.erotica groups would be the most popular. 'Fraid to say going by connections for the groups they still are #1. Binaries (and we only had the cross-posted ones) were as a hierarchy, ahead of rec by about double with a spattering of others. >The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are >obvious of course! Another problem I see is systems that allow control messages to create groups, which is why snicker when I see "Over 26,000 news groups!" How about the number of legitmate groups. Worthwhile to have around would be a drastically lower number. Ok, so the news groups go away, then mail/ftp/web traffic goes up. There will always be a way. My biggest beef is the mass mail that goes around and we have taken steps here to reduce that and I'm happy to say that is is working well, but mail is so easy to exploit. News to me is a wasteland full of ads. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28741 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28734; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA08815; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:30:30 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008741; Fri Apr 18 03:30:03 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417222155.00b975e8@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:21:55 -0500 To: "Gary Palmer" From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:18 PM 4/17/97 -0400, Gary Palmer wrote: >Nope. Results of processing /var/log/nntp to get nnrpd stats... i'm >not stupid enough to believe that our lusers actually have exactly the >same preference as the spammers. Lately lusers from here that spammed went for every damn group. Two strikes and they are out. Now if some of the bigger ISP's would do this... >> The problems with deleting the groups people are interested in are >> obvious of course! > >*shrug* I wonder how many AOL users know that the AOL proxy denies >access to certain sites? (If I remember right) Only with AOL will customers most often not be able to see a virtual host under their domain immediately. Never had a problem otherwise. America-Off-Line today. Major network problems, along with a slew of others, at least out of the Chicago Nap. My thought was "8 million users, looking for better service" 8-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:34:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28939 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28934 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-48.rust.net [206.42.195.148]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04711; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3356EB9E.75AF@rust.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:33:50 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: [snip] > > > > I agree. I think the best method for implementing a saner usenet is to > > dump the alt. hierarchy and flesh out the others, and make comprehensible > > rulesets for postings that servers can enforce (i.e. no more than X from > > a person in a day, no more than X in a single posting -- would help with > > spammers too) > > alt.* has a lot of useful stuff in it. For instance alt.conspiracy makes > great entertainment. But I think you are right that the trend is to more > formal management of Internet services and maybe we should be moving > towards a formal structure for managing USENET. Most of this is already > in place, it just isn't formalized in some sort of international > organization. However, this would not happen quickly. I think it would > take at least two years of public discussions to hash out the details. There is an already agreed-upon mechanism for doing what you propose: create your own heirarchies and the servers and censo^H^H^H^H^H control mechanisms for them; promote them in the appropriate *.announce groups on the existing Usenet newsgroups, and feed them and accept feeds from those interested. Voila! You have created your own version of Usenet, just like you want it! Frankly, I haven't the slightest idea what you mean by "the trend is to more formal management of Internet services". This is bass-ackwards to the entire concept of Usenet's semiorganized chaos that has served it throughout its entire existance. And who is this "we" who will "manage" Usenet? Elected by the same mechanism as the voting for the creation of new newsgroups? An international treaty organization where most representatives come from nations with so-called "free speech" where "free speech" is defined as "Responsible free speech" and "irresponsible" is defined as "anything government officials don't like"? Sorry, I'll pass. I don't have any problem with "cancelmoose" type enforcment of *limited* content-neutral rules generally accepted by Usenet's user-owners. But I do with anyone who thinks they have the right to prevent or inhibit its use by others, or to modify it simply because that would make it easier to carry. But I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real intent is to eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same time not have to provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent others from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their feet and go to the other providers. Fsck that idea. You don't want the group, don't carry it, but if others do, don't grouse about their choice. As for the alt newsgroups - *specifically* intended not to be controlled by any such cabalistic rules - the accepted convention is not to send them to anyone not requesting them. Or presumably ask for any you do not want the content of! From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 20:37:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA29052 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29046 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA09559; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:37:33 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma009540; Fri Apr 18 03:37:20 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970417222912.00bc0920@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:29:13 -0500 To: Michael Dillon From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:32 PM 4/17/97 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote: >On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > >> Has _anyone_ in this thread read about the Prodigy decision? > >Prodigy was editting the content of messages. They weren't taking "fuck!" and replacing it with "!#@$" were they? This would be crazy, but I thougth they would delete the message, not edit it. I wonder if Livingston's Choice Net would make us, and possibly Livington, liable under such laws if a site were not in the filter. Some care to send me a copy or post an URL? I'll toss the idea over there. >> Of course if you delete on the basia of size or UUEncoded content this >> might not be true. If done universally. > >That's right. I'm suggesting that we merely weed out the junk that should >not be in the USENET DISCUSSION GROUPS regardless of content. In other >words, if it is an encoded file, delete it regardless of whether it is >a UUencoded tar archive of program source code or a Base64 encode JPEG >of an F-16 fighter. Can this be done? Mind you I never wasted more time than I had to fixing news when it blew up. Since our news box died horribly and has to be 100% rebuilt I would do this from the start. Another problem is that readers can post to more than one group, which should be retroactively stripped out of all news readers. Ok, I'll wake up. ;-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 21:04:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00355 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from packfish.gateway.net.hk (john@packfish.gateway.net.hk [202.76.19.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00341 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by packfish.gateway.net.hk (8.8.3/8.7.3) id MAA12598; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:11:17 +0800 (HKT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:11:17 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Blaine Minazzi cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <33563A4E.7494CECB@denverweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > Ron Bickers wrote: > > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: > > > > > A lot of people are afraid that by dropping sex newsgroups specifically, > > > they will become legally vulnerable since they are EDITTING the material > > > on their news server based on its content. But there's an interesting > > > > Blockbuster doesn't have an X-rated movie section. Does that mean they're > > editing material? No. I'm not a lawyer either, but not carrying a.b.p.e > > is not "editing" anything, it's simply making it not available at all. > > There's nothing illegal about that. > > Yep. it's your server. Kinda like opening an italian restraunt. If > someone bitches > cause you don't serve chinese, they would be considered a bit loopy. The problem with "editing" stems from a libel case Cubby v. Compuserve Inc (1991). In that case a *moderated* forum published a libel and the court held that Compuserve was liable as a publisher in the same manner as a newspaper since it exercised editorial control (through proxie) over the postings in the group. This is what the editorial control fear is about. If the articles are reviewed for content, then the ISP may be treated as the publisher rather than as a common carrier. Not carrying news or only carrying half the groups could hardly be considered exercising editorial control. Nevertheless, eliminating all binaries is a good idea and removes any danger. John Beukema > > > > > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > > > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. > > > > I second that. It's out of control. Wonder what kind of bandwidth would > > be freed up if that were to happen. > > > > --- > > Ron > > Man, that has to be a LOT of bandwidth, not to mention disk space. > So... How could the ISP's get the ball rolling on enforcing the > newsgroups to > carry only text based news. Then the issue of crossposting.... > that really is a pain in the ass. I would wager that 95% of crossposted > articles > are posted to irrelevant groups. If we could fix this nonsense, and > only carry > non crossposted articles, that would also free up some bandwidth. ( not > to mention > stopping a lot of spam. ) Crosspoting _WAS_ a good idea when it was > relevant and > everything was pretty much academia and military. We have come a long > way since the > "old days". Now it is mostly abuse of the concept by clueless morons, > spamming the world. > > Just make the people that want the binary and sex stuff go and GET it, > rather than having it > delivered to every news machine on the net. > > On a slightly different note: > I feel that more regulation of some sort WILL come to the net. There is > too much commerce, > and too many dollars involved for the political theives to ignore. > They will soon be trying to find ways to tax and regulate us into the > ground. > I think our best defense is to be involved in the process preemptivly. > If regulation is going to come, WHO do you want to be invlolved in > actually writing the laws? > Congressmen without a clue, or congressmen with some input from the > industry? > Lets stay regulation free as long as possible, but, when they do turn > their greedy eye > at us, we need to be organized enough to have input, and make the > regulations > actually be to our benefit. Large corporations, such as AOL, and > compu$erve, AT&T, MCI, > etc. WILL be buying influence. And you can bet that if they can find a > way to have more control > over the net as a whole, they will slant everything that way. They > don't really care about content. > They are only interested in how much money they can make.... if that > means squishing the little > guys with regulations that they can survive, so be it. > ( an example, if my fish get sick, and I have to treat with copper > medication, it kills the > tiny organisms... copper is poison to fish also, but they can survive > the exposure more so than the > tiny critters. ) > > Oh well... back to work. > > Y'all have a good weekend. > > Blaine > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 21:56:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA02749 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA02744 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA15528 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:56:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13104 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:51:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:50:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <3356EB9E.75AF@rust.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > And who is this "we" who will "manage" Usenet? Pretty much the same people that manage it now. USENET is not utter chaos but is actually quite organized by many volunteers. Even the alt.* hierarchy is organized, just using different policies than the main hierarchies. > I don't have any problem with "cancelmoose" type enforcment of *limited* > content-neutral rules generally accepted by Usenet's user-owners. But I > do with anyone who thinks they have the right to prevent or inhibit its > use by others, or to modify it simply because that would make it easier > to carry. But I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real > intent is to eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same > time not have to provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent > others from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their > feet and go to the other providers. Fsck that idea. You don't want the > group, don't carry it, but if others do, don't grouse about their > choice. I was going to answer this but on second thought, you seem to firmly believe that the sound of black helicopters is getting near so I think I'll pass. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 17 23:41:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07620 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itu.cc.jyu.fi (root@itu.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.40.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07615 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itu.cc.jyu.fi (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA04594; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:39:29 +0300 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:39:29 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: BusLocig 960 or other RAID support in FreeBSD/Linux? In-Reply-To: <199704151634.LAA17241@iworks.InterWorks.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just heard, Adaptec 3490/5490 (?) RAID0-5 card is not supperted in Linux or FreeBSD (the RAID option is not supported, the card can be used as a group of 2940 cards). Is there any low-priced RAID cards supported in FreeBSD/Linux? Someone working on some cards? Seppo From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 00:40:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA16994 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amiga.amitar.com.au (slaterm@amiga.amitar.com.au [203.57.242.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16986 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (slaterm@localhost) by amiga.amitar.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA22787; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:44:15 +0800 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:44:15 +0800 (SGT) From: Michael Slater To: Brian Wang cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pop3 Radius In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Brian Wang wrote: > > I have a home made patch based on merit radius code for popper2.2, > which does basic password authentication off a radius server. E-mail me > if you like a copy. > Yes, it is just what i need. Much appriciated. regards, Michael Slater slaterm@amitar.com.au > Sincerely, > > Brian Wang > > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Michael Slater wrote: > > > Hello, > > Is anyone aware of a patch that will allow a the in.pop3d daemon > > to validate users through a radius server ? > > > > If so, i would appriciate hearing about it. > > > > > > regards, > > > > Michael Slater > > slaterm@sol.amitar.com.au > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 02:51:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA21924 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21919 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id EAA26878; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:52:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704180952.EAA26878@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:52:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: kallio@cc.jyu.fi Subject: Re: BusLocig 960 or other RAID support in FreeBSD/Linux? Cc: isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just heard, Adaptec 3490/5490 (?) RAID0-5 card is not supperted in Linux > or FreeBSD (the RAID option is not supported, the card can be used as a > group of 2940 cards). > > Is there any low-priced RAID cards supported in FreeBSD/Linux? Someone > working on some cards? I think DPT is you're best bet for hardware RAID for both Linux and FreeBSD. I believe there is support for some DPT RAID controllers in Linux. The author (Michael Neuffer) of the Linux DPT drivers, supposedly has rewritten the driver for the new line of DPT RAID controllers for FreeBSD. I think he's know trying to port this newly rewritten DPT driver back to Linux. I believe Simon Shapiro (Shimon@i-Connect.Net) was working with Michael Neuffer on the FreeBSD DPT driver. You might want to contact him or Michael privately to see what state the driver is in. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 03:36:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA23511 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 03:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA23504 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 03:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02001; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: <33574DDA.1CFBAE39@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:32:58 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, chair@ispa.org.uk Subject: Re: News... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: > > Rather than just targetting alt.binaries.* and zap everything, target any > message that is in a binary encoding format. In other words, USENET is for > messages, discussions, etc. so zap anything that is abusing USENET by > using it as a file transfer medium. Don't accept UUencoded messages or > Base64 or any other recognizable binary format. Text is OK and so is HTML > because these are message formats, not file formats. > IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to > use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. Yup this would be a good thing to do, just think of all the traffic that would dissapear from the net and the relief on ISPs news servers. We can't do it unilateraly of course so maybe this is where ISPA (at least in the UK) can help. I would block all non-text articles if other UK ISPs do the same, otherwise I'm just putting myself at a competetive disadvantage. Only a small proportion of customers read the news groups now anyway. regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 03:48:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA23899 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 03:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA23882 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 03:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02227; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:45:13 +0100 Message-ID: <335750B9.3F54BC7E@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:45:13 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Slater CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pop3 Radius References: <3356358C.41C67EA6@amitar.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Slater wrote: > > Hello, > Is anyone aware of a patch that will allow a the in.pop3d daemon > to validate users through a radius server ? > > If so, i would appriciate hearing about it. > > regards, > > Michael Slater > slaterm@sol.amitar.com.au I'm on the last stages of implementing this (ironing out the last remaining bugs) for our ISP service and PIAB product. It authenticates via radius and allows the user to access their smtp mail queue. Demon in the UK have just launched this service for their customers (they also deliver mail via smtp) and we will be hot on their heels. There's no way of authenticating joe@someuser.mydomain as opposed to edna@someuser.mydomain as they both have to supply the same login ID and password (someuser & ) but they DO only get access to their own email, so if joe connects he only gets joe@someuser.mydomain email. Any unread messges get left in the SMTP queue. regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 04:09:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA24732 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [198.168.253.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA24727 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA20597; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:09:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, "David K. Phinney" Subject: Re: tele-boot device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > It's a box that looks like those under-the-monitor power control consoles > with 5 outlets on the rear, and 6 switches (one for each outlet, and one > master), but it has a pair of phone jacks in the back. A phone line goes > into one of them, and the other can go to a phone or whatever, though I > don't know if the whatever can take calls (I think so, but we use > dedicated phone lines to avoid busies). You can then use any phone to > call into the box, give a 4 digit security code, then the 5th digit tells > the console which of the 5 outlets to power cycle (power stays off for > about 15 seconds). You also might want to check out APC's Master Switch product. It has 8 outlets, and in this case the modem is external, but it also alows control via SNMP, and the web. It has a 10base-T port on it, and runs a mini httpd! No clue about the price. Andrew Webster andrew@pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal Connected to the world Branche au monde P.O. Box 147 Cote Saint Luc, Quebec H4V 2Y3 tel 514.990.5911 http://www.pubnix.net fax 514.990.9443 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 04:37:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA27009 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA26995 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03446; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:34:05 +0100 Message-ID: <33575C2D.31DFF4F5@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:34:05 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <6410.861309049@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > All I can say is I will never trust a government which blatantly lies > > about the (alledged) non-existance of the worlds longest runway. And > > the top secret research centre which does not live alongside it. > > Oh joy, what *is* it about freebsd-isp this week which seems to invite > all these weirdly divergent topics?? :-) > > And besides, if you distrust governments who lie, you should be > equally quick to distrust your own. :-) Go to Porton Down sometime and > ask about the biological weapons research there (some of which has > rendered a few small scottish islands uninhabitable for the next 99 > years with Antrax spores). You will be told that there is no such > facility, the British government does not do biowar research and that > those islands do not exist. This is despite all the books and > documentaries which have been produced over the last 30 years which > show exactly what's been going on over there. After you're done > with that, go poking around the GCHQ and see if you can get yourself > arrested for asking questions. :-) > > And we won't even START talking about British covert operations in the > republic of Ireland (none of which, needless to say, are officially > admitted to :-). > > Jordan Our government sucks, your government sucks, all governments suck in one form or another. And ? regards damian FreeBSD for President !!! :-) -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 06:49:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA03300 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.multinet.net (house.multinet.net [204.138.173.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA03294 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from graydon@localhost) by house.multinet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA15526; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:49:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:49:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon Hoare ()" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <3356EB9E.75AF@rust.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real intent is to > eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same time not have to > provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent others > from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their feet and Look, Usenet in its current form is like getting the contents of 1 copy of Scientific American, 1 Newsweek, 1 Dr. Dobbs, 1 Rolling Stone, and 27,000 backissues of Hustler all in the same magazine. It's just not a very well-balanced breakfast, y'know? If you'd read my post, all I'm suggesting is that admins take a moment of their day and consider if they really need that custom built Joe-Greco-Special churning through 5 gigabytes of pornos every day when really, if someone feels they need nudies badly, they can always just use the web for a few minutes and subsidize someone who commercially produces the stuff. I don't think I'm tromping on any first-amendment shoes in saying so, considering most of the stuff on alt.la.de.da is either: (a) illegal as an infringement of human rights or an infringement of intellectual property law or (b) spam, test messages, or unmoderated flamage that scares off thoughtful, gentle people. But hey man, if you got $15,000 to blow on your next news server, welcome to the free world.. You'll get plenty of customers and serve plenty of burgers. good luck. -graydon From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 06:56:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA05108 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05102 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-77.rust.net [206.42.195.177]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04831; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33577D6B.143B@rust.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:55:55 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: News... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > > > And who is this "we" who will "manage" Usenet? > > Pretty much the same people that manage it now. USENET is not utter chaos > but is actually quite organized by many volunteers. Even the alt.* > hierarchy is organized, just using different policies than the main > hierarchies. Rules which you seem to intend to reverse the purpose and spirit of. > > I don't have any problem with "cancelmoose" type enforcment of *limited* > > content-neutral rules generally accepted by Usenet's user-owners. But I > > do with anyone who thinks they have the right to prevent or inhibit its > > use by others, or to modify it simply because that would make it easier > > to carry. But I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real > > intent is to eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same > > time not have to provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent > > others from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their > > feet and go to the other providers. Fsck that idea. You don't want the > > group, don't carry it, but if others do, don't grouse about their > > choice. > > I was going to answer this but on second thought, you seem to firmly > believe that the sound of black helicopters is getting near so I think > I'll pass. Ooo, that stings! Black helicopters! Nah, the only sound I hear sounds like - whining. Actually I don't think there's the slightest chance of anything much more than more whining occurring. :-) From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 09:31:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15349 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from charmed.wilshire.net ([206.250.85.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15343 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rjmcintire (pool035-max7.la-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.5.35]) by charmed.wilshire.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA23603 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704181636.JAA23603@charmed.wilshire.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Riley J. McIntire" Organization: RJM Consulting To: freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:17:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: News... Reply-to: rjmcintire@wilshire.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:50:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: Michael Dillon > To: freebsd-isp@freeBSD.org > Subject: Re: News... > Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting > On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > > > And who is this "we" who will "manage" Usenet? > > Pretty much the same people that manage it now. USENET is not utter chaos > but is actually quite organized by many volunteers. Even the alt.* > hierarchy is organized, just using different policies than the main > hierarchies. > > > I don't have any problem with "cancelmoose" type enforcment of *limited* > > content-neutral rules generally accepted by Usenet's user-owners. But I > > do with anyone who thinks they have the right to prevent or inhibit its > > use by others, or to modify it simply because that would make it easier > > to carry. But I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real > > intent is to eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same > > time not have to provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent > > others from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their > > feet and go to the other providers. Fsck that idea. You don't want the > > group, don't carry it, but if others do, don't grouse about their > > choice. > > I was going to answer this but on second thought, you seem to firmly > believe that the sound of black helicopters is getting near so I think > I'll pass. > I'll take a shot at it. It's not so much denying newsfeed to those who want it , but misuse and abuse of the mechanism used to distribute it. This mechanism, nntp, is costing ISPs in time, money and bandwidth because the alt groups are *pushing* large binaries through servers for a minority(???) of users. In a way, it is broadcast--not to the user, but to the ISP. The content providers are using the ISPs disk space and bandwidth for their own products. Use of a broadcast media should be by subscription--for instance the push content on the Web--one subscribes to it. But the point is, if one doesn't subscribe, it doesn't bog down an ISP's servers--it stays on the publishers (or originators) servers. Keeps the responsibility for content where it should be, too. At the source. Now, one does subscribe to newsgroups, but the point is the overhead of transmission and administration is on the ISP, not the content provider. And the gun is at the ISP's head: Subscribe (or provide) these groups, or become liable for content and lose customers because you don't carry the groups they want. In a sense, this is an issue of not only rational use of available resources, but also one of placing responsibility on the content provider at the source. So, change how large binaries are distributed. Use web push tecnology. Use ftp. Use news for what it was intended: text messages and discussion. And incidently put the onus of content responsibility at the source. Damn! Didn't expect to write that much! Cheers, Riley From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 09:42:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16332 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16321 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id RAA04633; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:42:11 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id RAA00754; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:25:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15724; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:29:48 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970418141941.006dbfd8@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:19:41 +0100 To: "Graydon Hoare ()" , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: News... Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dropping news once it has arrived seems to me to beg the question. If you check the proportion of news that you stash that is actually accessed by users it turns out to be a small proportion of the total (unless you're a ISP). The rest has occupied great hunks of bandwidth to arrive at your system, and everybody else's, and is then thrown away at the end of the expiry cycle. Since news is now such a grotesquely inefficient bandwidth gobbler, it's surely time to reevaluate the whole system. I suppose two possibilities come to mind... 1) I like the idea of the Pagesat satellite news feed system in that it is effectively multicast and removes the multiple transmission of the same stuff around the Net; 2) a smaller number of passive news repositories responding to local ISP cacheing news server requests -- only the news that's required gets d/l. Just my two-pennyworth :) -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 09:42:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA16372 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16363 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id RAA04620; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:42:05 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id RAA00749; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:25:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15703; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:03:29 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970418135323.0070f43c@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:53:23 +0100 To: chas , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:07 17/04/97 +0800, chas wrote: >what are the -ERR POP EOF messages on the console when people >connect to the server ? > >people seem able to connect and collect ok but i just dislike >error messages. > Which pop daemon are you using? -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 09:55:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17526 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17514 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA02594; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Graydon Hoare ()" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:49:49 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:57:14 -0700 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > >> I'm starting to get the impression that this thread's real intent is to >> eliminate newsgroups which are unwanted and at the same time not have to >> provide them to those getting newsfeeds, and prevent others >> from carrying them as well, lest the customers vote with their feet and > >Look, Usenet in its current form is like getting the contents of 1 copy of >Scientific American, 1 Newsweek, 1 Dr. Dobbs, 1 Rolling Stone, and 27,000 >backissues of Hustler all in the same magazine. It's just not a very >well-balanced breakfast, y'know? > >If you'd read my post, all I'm suggesting is that admins take a moment of >their day and consider if they really need that custom built >Joe-Greco-Special churning through 5 gigabytes of pornos every day when >really, if someone feels they need nudies badly, they can always just use >the web for a few minutes and subsidize someone who commercially produces >the stuff. I don't think I'm tromping on any first-amendment shoes in >saying so, considering most of the stuff on alt.la.de.da is either: > > (a) illegal as an infringement of human rights or an > infringement of intellectual property law > or > > (b) spam, test messages, or unmoderated flamage that scares > off thoughtful, gentle people. > >But hey man, if you got $15,000 to blow on your next news server, welcome >to the free world.. You'll get plenty of customers and serve plenty of >burgers. good luck. I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business to make money? It seems to me that if you make more money by providing all of the content of Usenet (WHATEVER that might be), then that's what you should do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 10:33:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20314 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from house.multinet.net (house.multinet.net [204.138.173.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA20307 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from graydon@localhost) by house.multinet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA16306; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:33:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:33:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon Hoare ()" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, David Greenman wrote: > I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business > to make money? There's a market for porn and spam which includes pricey, sluggish, short-expiry newsservice. it costs a lot to get into that market. Once in, there may be very high returns, but only if you are reliable in all other departments. Otherwise, your charming newsserver is simply dead from overwork, and you have nothing. There's also a market for on-topic news and discussion in a moderated environment. It's cheaper, easier, less maintenance, higher-quality (in most reasonable measurements) and caters to a wider audience. It is also not frowned upon by many 'morality czars' like your parents, your teachers, your wife, your kids (if you have 'em), the police, and your boss. The returns in this market may be slightly less (in terms of connect hours) or slightly more (in terms of more free lines, less overhead) but you will surely continue to get payed for administering the system. Mere presence in either market will not determine if an ISP 'makes money', and many ISPs do not need any further growth anyway. _________________________________ nightly news, with john aquaviva. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 11:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24523 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup39.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24511 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04703 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:45:17 -0600 Message-ID: <3357A50E.3BE60349@denverweb.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:45:16 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project What does morality have to do with not pissing away bandwidth? So... leave the porn in, and risk a lawsuit. take it out and risk a lawsuit. Screw it, go with the low bandwidth solution. If the porn REALLY is 90% of usenet content, then we certainly need to fix it. I don't buy the fact that our incomes would suffer greatly by simple having the customer fetch the stuff from smut_r_us.com rather than us having to store hundreds of megs of this shit on our servers, just so someone can get their rocks off. If I want to make money in that arena, I would open a strip club or adult bookstore. It is still available, we just dont shuffle a gazzillion megs of the shit around daily. Since most of it is the same "back issues" and same old files, it's REALLY a bandwidth pisser. Economics is simple. You make the choices YOU think are most benificial to the company. You live with the results. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 11:54:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25417 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA25348 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA05665; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:50:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:50:34 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > > I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business > to make money? It seems to me that if you make more money by providing all of > the content of Usenet (WHATEVER that might be), then that's what you should > do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. One of the principle costs in running an ISP is the cost of bandwidth. Usenet is a big hit on bandwidth, the cost of which is disproportionate to the revenue generated from those that actually use it. Anything which can reduce this major cost centre will be beneficial to ALL ISPs, regardless of size. There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 12:54:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29060 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.id.net (mail.id.net [199.125.1.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29051 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.id.net (shell.id.net [199.125.2.8]) by mail.id.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09676; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:55:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Shady Received: (from rls@localhost) by shell.id.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA09401; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704181954.PAA09401@shell.id.net> Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> from Damian Hamill at "Apr 18, 97 07:50:34 pm" To: damian@cablenet.net (Damian Hamill) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Cc: dg@root.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business > to make money? David, your not serious, are you? You mean we're supposed to have all this fun --AND-- make money too!? Boy I must not have been thinking clearly the past few years... :) -- Rob === _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ Innovative Data Services Serving South-Eastern Michigan Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services Voice: (810)855-0404 / Fax: (810)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 13:28:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01268 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01233 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA17970; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:27:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: Travis Mikalson cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors In-Reply-To: <33556BB5.55A9@TerraNova.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Travis Mikalson wrote: > The "ERR: "auth" unknown command" is caused by older versions of > Micros**t Internet Mail. > Someone thought 'auth' was a POP command over there at Microsoft.. > *shrug* Ummm...it is. See RFC1734. pbd From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 13:35:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01721 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunfire.ucs.net (root@sunfire.ucs.net [199.224.7.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01680 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (afurman@localhost) by sunfire.ucs.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11657 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Furman To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD account Delete Script Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. Adam Adam Furman Assistant System Administrator of United Computer Specialists afurman@amf.net Irc Admin of irc.ucs.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 14:12:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03686 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (root@obiwan.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03599 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P1mpBSD (coolholio@P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.130]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.5/TerraNovaNet) with SMTP id RAA21576; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3357E2E7.42F2@TerraNova.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:08:55 -0400 From: Travis Mikalson Reply-To: bofh@TerraNova.net Organization: TerraNovaNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bradley Dunn CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bradley Dunn wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Travis Mikalson wrote: > > > The "ERR: "auth" unknown command" is caused by older versions of > > Micros**t Internet Mail. > > Someone thought 'auth' was a POP command over there at Microsoft.. > > *shrug* > > Ummm...it is. See RFC1734. > > pbd Ok, then why does qpopper 2.2 not like it? MS Internet Mail used to do _something_ wrong with the auth command according to that particular error message qpopper generates.. Is one of the most popular POP3 servers in use today not RFC1734 compliant or was MS Internet Mail wocked? -- -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Services - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 14:26:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04611 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04554 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA27900; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: Travis Mikalson cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors In-Reply-To: <3357E2E7.42F2@TerraNova.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Travis Mikalson wrote: > Ok, then why does qpopper 2.2 not like it? > MS Internet Mail used to do _something_ wrong with the auth command > according to that particular error message qpopper generates.. Because if you would read the RFC you would see that it is an optional command. The authors of qpopper chose not to implement it. > Is one of the most popular POP3 servers in use today not RFC1734 > compliant or was MS Internet Mail wocked? One of the most popular POP3 servers in use today is not RFC1734 compliant (nor is it required to be). pbd From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 14:29:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04914 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (root@srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04907 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scott.cr.usgs.gov (aslpca.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.121.30]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14260; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:29:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970418152804.009af9c0@mail.thuntek.net> X-Sender: scott@mail.thuntek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:28:14 -0600 To: Adam Furman , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Scott Halbert Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:34 PM 4/18/97 -0400, Adam Furman wrote: >I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the >system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. >Adam > >Adam Furman >Assistant System Administrator of United Computer Specialists >afurman@amf.net >Irc Admin of irc.ucs.net Later versions of FreeBSD (2.1.5 and beyond) have the 'rmuser' command. Like adduser, it is a Perl script. It seems pretty comprehensive (and pretty nasty if you accidentally aim it at the wrong account :)) ---Scott Halbert Thunder Network Technologies, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 15:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA08358 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08353 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-61.rust.net [206.42.195.161]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01389; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3357F448.34A9@rust.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:23:04 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damian Hamill CC: dg@root.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Damian Hamill wrote: > > David Greenman wrote: > > > > > I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business > > to make money? It seems to me that if you make more money by providing all of > > the content of Usenet (WHATEVER that might be), then that's what you should > > do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. > > One of the principle costs in running an ISP is the cost of bandwidth. > Usenet is a big hit on bandwidth, the cost of which is disproportionate > to the revenue generated from those that actually use it. Anything > which can reduce this major cost centre will be beneficial to ALL ISPs, > regardless of size. > > There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... True. As the internet evolves the customer will be using it and the bandwidth they buy from you more completely. But will next month's debate be over CU-Seeme (sp?), RealVideo, Push technology, or fully utilized PPP connections caused by someone's new program to stop long transfers during web browsing, so that http can still take place at full speed as well? How to forbid, suppress, or eliminate such advances in technology as menaces to ISP profits, and yet somehow be able to present less services as "better service"? Obvious tech fix for news: software that will suck only the articles of reasonable size from a set of newsgroups you desire, presumably those desired by customers. Result: only takes backbone bandwidth once, the rest of the transactions being between your customers and your news server. Usually with considerable delays between such transactions for reading the articles, or at least scanning them. OTOH, this would result in the bandwidth hit being transferred to more web browsing by customers unsatisied with the selection you have made for them, or even the customers reading news directly through your backbone, the long news active files eating up their time and the valuable bandwidth. Could result in keeping users on semi-"unlimited" accounts on longer with little utility to the ISP or the user who must wait for the file. As for the "regardless of size", there will be a point where the bandwidth tradeoff will be in favor of a newsfeed that serves most/all users. Of course it would be peachy keen if one could sell bandwidth to users without needing to buy the bandwidth to sell. It would be wonderful too if all an ISP's customers were already experienced and needed no tech support personnel hooking up, or if T1 lines were installed in a week when needed. But Usenet is not going to dry up and blow away, I suspect. TANSTAFFL. Well, maybe anti-Usenet ISPs in general can hire a bunch of PR people to tell those nasty inconvenient competitors who *do* provide newsgroups to go away and die, please. But I doubt it will work much better than the efforts by major ISPs to persuade the smaller ones to do the same. Not that I'd mind - would be amusing, and to paraphrase Jack Rickard of _Boardwatch_, there'll be some great deals on equipment and office furniture at the auction. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 15:32:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA08851 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msn2.globaldialog.com (smtp.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08846 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from br05 (br05.bentreality.com [156.46.122.253]) by msn2.globaldialog.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA28097 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:31:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:31:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704182231.RAA28097@msn2.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: jwenger@globaldialog.com X-EUDORA-DEMO: NOT FOR RESALE - 90 DAY DEMONSTRATION COPY X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: FreeBSD ISP list From: Jack Wenger Subject: Virtual Servers Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have a script or set of scripts for adding virtual domains/servers? I'm going to be upgrading my box to 2.2.1 w/ the latest apache web server. I will also be keeping the default directories that the 2.2.1 install makes. Also, any GOOD sources for DNS management? I have the Unix Systems Administrators Handbook, and a bunch of others, but every little bit helps! Thanx All! |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'-**-'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Jack Wenger, Owner Bent Reality Graphics | | info@bentreality.com ^ http://www.bentreality.com | | 608-233-8571 | `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'-**-'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 15:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09614 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09607 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA21420; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:48:53 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:48:52 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Adam Furman cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Adam Furman wrote: > I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the > system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. > Adam There is a new command in 2.2 called pw(8). It would probably compile under 2.1.7 if that is what you are using. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 15:54:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09923 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09916 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-61.rust.net [206.42.195.161]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA04453; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3357FB46.7E51@rust.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:52:54 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin Melville CC: "Graydon Hoare ()" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <1.5.4.32.19970418141941.006dbfd8@wrcmail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robin Melville wrote: > > Dropping news once it has arrived seems to me to beg the question. If you > check the proportion of news that you stash that is actually accessed by > users it turns out to be a small proportion of the total (unless you're a > ISP). > > The rest has occupied great hunks of bandwidth to arrive at your system, and > everybody else's, and is then thrown away at the end of the expiry cycle. > Since news is now such a grotesquely inefficient bandwidth gobbler, it's > surely time to reevaluate the whole system. > > I suppose two possibilities come to mind... 1) I like the idea of the > Pagesat satellite news feed system in that it is effectively multicast and > removes the multiple transmission of the same stuff around the Net; 2) a > smaller number of passive news repositories responding to local ISP cacheing > news server requests -- only the news that's required gets d/l. > > Just my two-pennyworth :) That would be Planet Connect, now. Pagesat is evidently defunct. Lesee, for US customers $1090+$33/month (1 yr contract). For Europe $988 and you supply the satellite dish and LNB yourself, plus $50/month (VAT & such, perhaps?) For 128K feed of Usenet only, H/W expandable to 256K. According to their website. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 16:23:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12209 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12136 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eddie ([206.62.254.22]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00273; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:24:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3357FEE5.4DBB@eaznet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:08:21 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Blaine Minazzi CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> <3357A50E.3BE60349@denverweb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Blaine Minazzi wrote: > > David Greenman wrote: > > > do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. > > > > -DG > > > > David Greenman > > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > What does morality have to do with not pissing away bandwidth? > > So... leave the porn in, and risk a lawsuit. take it out and risk a > lawsuit. > Screw it, go with the low bandwidth solution. > > If the porn REALLY is 90% of usenet content, then we certainly need to > fix it. > > I don't buy the fact that our incomes would suffer greatly by simple > having the customer > fetch the stuff from smut_r_us.com rather than us having to store > hundreds of megs of > this shit on our servers, just so someone can get their rocks off. If I > want to make money > in that arena, I would open a strip club or adult bookstore. > > It is still available, we just dont shuffle a gazzillion megs of the > shit around daily. > Since most of it is the same "back issues" and same old files, it's > REALLY a bandwidth pisser. > > Economics is simple. You make the choices YOU think are most benificial > to the company. > You live with the results. > > Blaine I am in TOTAL agreement. I don't think anyone's going to lose customers because they don't keep this junk on a local drive. If anything, change your focus from "WE GIVE YOU EVERYTHING A SMUT-LOVER WOULD WANT" to "WE GIVE YOU FASTER ACCESS AND DOWNLOAD SPEEDS" because we don't jam our lines with smut. Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 16:47:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA14250 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (root@obiwan.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14186 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P1mpBSD (coolholio@P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net [205.152.26.130]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.5/TerraNovaNet) with SMTP id TAA24998; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33580782.50F9@TerraNova.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:45:06 -0400 From: Travis Mikalson Reply-To: bofh@TerraNova.net Organization: TerraNovaNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bradley Dunn CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bradley Dunn wrote: > > Because if you would read the RFC you would see that it is an optional > command. The authors of qpopper chose not to implement it. Ah I see.. Sorry, I didn't have time to go find and read the RFC.. Maybe I'll print it out and read it some time ;) > One of the most popular POP3 servers in use today is not RFC1734 > compliant (nor is it required to be). Good point... I stand corrected. -- -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Services - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 17:22:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15889 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15881 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17048; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:19:41 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704190019.KAA17048@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Apr 19, 97 08:48:52 am" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:19:40 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Adam Furman wrote: > > > I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the > > system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. > > Adam > > There is a new command in 2.2 called pw(8). It would probably compile > under 2.1.7 if that is what you are using. > > Danny > Whats wrong with the rmuser command that is in 2.2? Seems to work o.k for me. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 17:43:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16926 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA16912 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA01000 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:43:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22726 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:38:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:38:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <199704181636.JAA23603@charmed.wilshire.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Riley J. McIntire wrote: > And the gun is at the ISP's head: Subscribe (or provide) > these groups, or become liable for content I don't believe this is true. ISP's can drop any newsgroups they want or drop messages due to non-content related criteria, such as encoded files or large messages, and still not be liable for content. You become liable for content when you examine the content and drop messages based on that or when you edit the content. But encoded files are not truly messages and could be dropped safely, IMHO. Of course I am not a lawyer and I have not yet asked any telecom lawyers to consider this idea of eliminating files from USENET. > So, change how large binaries are distributed. Use web push > tecnology. Use ftp. Use news for what it was intended: text > messages and discussion. And incidently put the onus of content > responsibility at the source. Exactly! Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 17:49:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17510 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA17503 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA01083 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:49:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22789 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:44:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, David Greenman wrote: > I must be seriously missing something here. I thought ISPs were in business > to make money? It seems to me that if you make more money by providing all of > the content of Usenet (WHATEVER that might be), then that's what you should > do. That's the crux of the problem. It is now costing so much to build and maintain a newsserver that it is no longer economical for many ISP's to continue running one. If we chop out all the files it will once again become an economical proposaition and the percentage of customers reading USENET could very well increase. > If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. I'm not suggesting we chop out any of the USENET content, just get rid of the files that, IMHO, do not belong there. It also solves another problem, namely ISPs are being forced to be distributors of illegal images and illegally copied software. It is very possible that some ISP's will start to be hauled up on criminal charges because of this. The volume of USENET has become so large that it no longer meets the characteristics of a cache or a buffer and so it is not likely to be treated the same way as HTTP or FTP by the legal system. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 18:23:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA18829 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18822 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA22135; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:22:46 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:22:45 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: <199704190019.KAA17048@spooky.eis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Adam Furman wrote: > > > > > I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the > > > system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. > > > Adam > > > > There is a new command in 2.2 called pw(8). It would probably compile > > under 2.1.7 if that is what you are using. > > Whats wrong with the rmuser command that is in 2.2? Nothing. But it is useful if I tell people of the existence of pw(8), because it does a lot more than just rmuser. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 20:04:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22316 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22310 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA23822; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA15883; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:03:02 -0400 (EDT) To: danlaw@rust.net cc: michael@blueneptune.com, Pete Carah , jsuter@linus.intrastar.net, isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:54:17 EDT." <3356E259.528F@rust.net> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:03:02 -0400 Message-ID: <15879.861418982@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Norm Mackey wrote in message ID <3356E259.528F@rust.net>: > I hope by "auto cancel" you mean "removes them from the feed", not the > "tell the internet to delete someone else's post" definition for > "cancels". Local cancels, yes. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 20:05:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22389 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22383 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA23979; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id XAA15922; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:04:18 -0400 (EDT) To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:04:30 CDT." <3.0.32.19970417220430.00ba8d44@mixcom.com> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:04:17 -0400 Message-ID: <15920.861419057@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jeffrey J. Mountin" wrote in message ID <3.0.32.19970417220430.00ba8d44@mixcom.com>: > Arg, putting the blame on the ISP is ludicrous, as think of how much > time it would take to check all web and ftp sites, as well as news. > After doing a find for graphic and compressed files, they would have > to be examined. Messages posted to news (assuming we would be > responsible for just our customers postings) would have to be > checked. etc, etc NOT! I think their point is that you must take `reasonable steps' to ensure that your service is legal. Such as not carrying the kiddie porn groups. > Ouch! That is a lot of trash to take out. Lucky we have this thing called `expire' *grin* Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 20:18:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22754 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22749 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id WAA21015; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02398; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:17:05 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:17:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Ernie Elu , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The man page references 'login.conf(5)'. Does that man page exist somewhere? -- Jay On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: -> -> ->On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: -> ->> > On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Adam Furman wrote: ->> > ->> > > I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the ->> > > system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. ->> > > Adam ->> > ->> > There is a new command in 2.2 called pw(8). It would probably compile ->> > under 2.1.7 if that is what you are using. ->> ->> Whats wrong with the rmuser command that is in 2.2? -> ->Nothing. But it is useful if I tell people of the existence of pw(8), ->because it does a lot more than just rmuser. -> ->Danny -> From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 20:41:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA23578 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23573 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA22676; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:41:12 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:41:11 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Jay D. Nelson" cc: Ernie Elu , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Jay D. Nelson wrote: > The man page references 'login.conf(5)'. Does that man page exist > somewhere? Apparently not. It is not in the -current sources on freefall. David Nugent is working on login.conf, and possibly has not yet written the man page. Ask Danny > On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > ->On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > -> > ->> > On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Adam Furman wrote: > ->> > > ->> > > I would like to know if someone has a script to delete accounts from the > ->> > > system. Right now we are doing it by hand and it is a pain in the neck. > ->> > > Adam > ->> > > ->> > There is a new command in 2.2 called pw(8). It would probably compile > ->> > under 2.1.7 if that is what you are using. > ->> > ->> Whats wrong with the rmuser command that is in 2.2? > -> > ->Nothing. But it is useful if I tell people of the existence of pw(8), > ->because it does a lot more than just rmuser. > -> > ->Danny > -> > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 21:24:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24829 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24822 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eddie ([206.62.254.34]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00782 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:26:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3358467B.1871@eaznet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:13:47 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 2.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey, Just asking for a consensus. I'm currently running 2.1.7. Is the upgrade to 2.2 worth the trouble yet? I've noticed that there are a few problems with 2.2 stil (ie: drivers not completed, etc.) I'm NOT a proficient C programmer and would rather not have to try and do my own coding. What do you think? Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 22:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA27206 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27200 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16933; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:37:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970419003540.006893cc@linus.intrastar.net> X-Sender: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:35:40 -0500 To: Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Jacob Suter Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: References: <27507.861262973@orion.webspan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >IMHO the solution is to clean up binaries from USENET and force people to >use file transfer protocols (FTP, HTTP, DCC, FSP) to transfer files. I'll second that. It doesn't really cut down on the child porn, just takes it out of the public eye though, which can be good and bad.. harder than hell to trace (usenet postings can potentially be traced), but at least its not easy for joe blow's kid to go wandering into. Personally I think free pornography sites are kinda cheasy.. Even if you charge $1/year, there is at least a little checks and balances going on. Maybe I'm turning into an anti-bandwidth wasting web-nazi... Scary thought. JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 22:46:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA27407 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27401; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16950; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:46:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970419004443.006b4f0c@linus.intrastar.net> X-Sender: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:44:43 -0500 To: danlaw@rust.net, Gary Palmer From: Jacob Suter Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Cc: Ron Bickers , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <335675FD.4199@rust.net> References: <9548.861295866@orion.webspan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As I understand it, the ruling was that *only if you censor some >messages* >do you become liable for others that sneak into other newsgroups, >otherwise you are simply acting as a distributor and do not have the >duty to scan each and every message in all newsgroups you allow. that'd be like going after the power company for some ultra-strange transient surge that happened to be a porn picture being sent over the power lines at 60 baud? Its supposed to just be ~115v 60hz A.C. Dammit, not porn! I really didn't mean to start a religious debate, though this is important stuff as the problem is growing out of control. JS From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 18 23:02:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27917 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27912 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA10644 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25333; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:58:34 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19970419155834.37337@usn.blaze.net.au> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:58:34 +1000 From: David Nugent To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" Cc: "Jay D. Nelson" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69e In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Sat Apr 19 13:41:11 EST 1997 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat Apr 19 13:41:11 EST 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan writes: > > The man page references 'login.conf(5)'. Does that man page exist > > somewhere? > > Apparently not. It is not in the -current sources on freefall. Yes, it is - it has been there for a while, but it doesn't belong in 2.2 and prior since only 3.0 current has login.conf support. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 00:22:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA00160 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00154 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17902 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:22:02 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704190722.RAA17902@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: routed and small subnets To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:22:01 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to get routed to add routes for a couple of small subnets I have hanging of ppp dialup modems. All systems are FreeBSD 2.2 I have tried about 10 different /etc/gateways lines but no matter what the traceroute for any ip in the subnets wants to go out to the default router. The /etc/gateways file entry is: net 203.13.222.32/28 gateway 203.13.222.33 metric 1 passive net 203.13.222.16/29 gateway 203.13.222.17 metric 2 passive So there are 2 small subnets on of 8 addresses and the other of 16 talking I can ping 203.13.222.17 and 203.13.222.33 but no other hosts in either of the subnets. If I kill off routed and do it manually ie. route add -net 203.13.222.32 -netmask 0xfffffff0 203.13.222.33 it works but of course modem lines hang up so the routes get lost every now and then. Is this the correct sort of thing to do with routed or is it best handled some other way perhaps with static routes? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 00:47:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA00803 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00798 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA18462; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19970419004632.00817@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:46:32 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Ernie Elu Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: routed and small subnets References: <199704190722.RAA17902@spooky.eis.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199704190722.RAA17902@spooky.eis.net.au>; from Ernie Elu on Sat, Apr 19, 1997 at 05:22:01PM +1000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-960801-SNAP i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ernie Elu scribbled this message on Apr 19: > I am trying to get routed to add routes for a couple of small subnets I have > hanging of ppp dialup modems. All systems are FreeBSD 2.2 are you running routed on the other boxes?? if you do.. then they should automaticly propagate the routes to the other subnets... I've done this with a friends network over a ppp link before I got gated running... > I have tried about 10 different /etc/gateways lines but no matter what the > traceroute for any ip in the subnets wants to go out to the default router. hmmm... make sure that all routed's are running in announce mode (-s) > it works but of course modem lines > hang up so the routes get lost every now and then. what version of ppp are you running? user ppp (iijppp) or kernel ppp (pppd)... I have patches for kernel ppp that allows you to specify it to add a network route when connecting... and you can add a entry in /etc/ppp/ppp.linkup for user ppp to add a network route... > Is this the correct sort of thing to do with routed or is it best handled > some other way perhaps with static routes? well... I really haven't played around with /etc/gateways... so I really don't know... as I stated above, I have gotten it working with routed announcing routes... but if your going to connect to inet.. or any of the networks are secure... you REALLY should run gated as you can have it automaticly add the routes and not accept routing information from the ppp links... hope this helps... ttyl... -- John-Mark Cu Networking Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 02:30:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA05610 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA05595 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09185; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:18:55 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:18:54 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" cc: danlaw@rust.net, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970417221535.00ba8d44@mixcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Another problem I see is systems that allow control messages to create > groups, which is why snicker when I see "Over 26,000 news groups!" How > about the number of legitmate groups. Worthwhile to have around would be a Hehehe. I tried explaining that to the owners. Our "free" dedicated link for news (which may I add is now saturating a 64k ISDN totally 24 hours a day, this is for news *ACCESS* to our clients from a remote server, not news *FEED*) has about 8000 groups. Our carriers' news server has the 26,000 ish group count, but noone believes me when I say most of them are disused / inactive groups. Since we ARE being charged 19c a meg, and lots of clients read news, it makes me wonder if its a conspiracy on our IP providers part to rip us off. I'm *NOT* going to get into the ICP traffic from our squid to theirs, (they want us to peer with their proxy, saving them money .. under 1% hit rate? *giggle*) Enough rambling. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 02:50:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA06511 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06482 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09244; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:38:25 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:38:25 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Michael Dillon cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [snip] > > I'm not suggesting we chop out any of the USENET content, just get rid of > the files that, IMHO, do not belong there. It also solves another problem, > namely ISPs are being forced to be distributors of illegal images and > illegally copied software. It is very possible that some ISP's will start > to be hauled up on criminal charges because of this. The volume of USENET > has become so large that it no longer meets the characteristics of a cache > or a buffer and so it is not likely to be treated the same way as HTTP or > FTP by the legal system. The Australian Censorship laws are beginning to suck bad :) Eg (correct me if I screw up fellow aussies).. you have two types of porn : say bad and v.bad (beastiality, necrophilia, underage stuff, you get the drift). The Bad stuff, you're not liable if you can prove you didn't know about it. The V.Bad stuff, you're dead :) So basically, if someone hated me, they could put some porn on my system and then tell the authorities, and get my system in real strife. There is/was also the issue about who carries the information, and the ISP being to blame if someone accesses this info though them. I wonder what would happen if Bigpond (Telstra - the monopolizing telco in Australia - their internet access thingy) suddenly came under this threat? Or, (what I"D love to see) the telco getting in the crap for "carrying" the illegal information? Enough from me. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 02:52:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA06710 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06704 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA20391 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 02:52:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ISP Terminal Server Remote Site Requirements Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I was wondering what else would be needed to do a FreeBSD based terminal server that does it authenicitation with a actual FreeBSD based server over the network besides the following: 1) FreeBSD box with Cyclades Serial Ports and modems, will the box alone be able to support ISDN or USR X2 modems assuming I had a ISDN PRI coming in and will there be support for the PRI? I heard for X2 that more than the modems is needed but also their server is needed? 2) Daniel O'Callaghan's terminal server kit for FreeBSD 3) A router which I can use either a Cisco or ETinc's syncronous card on a FreeBSD box. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 07:05:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17610 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA17602 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA07856; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:03:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3358D095.7566F4CF@cablenet.net> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:03:01 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: danlaw@rust.net CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <1.5.4.32.19970418141941.006dbfd8@wrcmail> <3357FB46.7E51@rust.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sysadmin wrote: > esat satellite news feed system in that it is effectively multicast and > > removes the multiple transmission of the same stuff around the Net; 2) a > > smaller number of passive news repositories responding to local ISP cacheing > > news server requests -- only the news that's required gets d/l. > > > > Just my two-pennyworth :) > That would be Planet Connect, now. Pagesat is evidently defunct. Lesee, > for US customers $1090+$33/month (1 yr contract). For Europe $988 and > you > supply the satellite dish and LNB yourself, plus $50/month (VAT & such, > perhaps?) For 128K feed of Usenet only, H/W expandable to 256K. > According > to their website. There will soon be a very cost effective satellite news feed available in Europe. I understand the pricing might be something like $2000-$3000 US setup fee and $15 per year subscription (yes I said fifteen dollars per year). I understand that bandwidth is unlimited and the full news feed will be delivered. regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 07:16:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18117 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.dnsserver.com (qmailr@[208.14.0.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA18112 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1997 14:09:19 -0000 Received: from www8.clever.net (root@206.31.79.1) by smtp.clever.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1997 14:09:19 -0000 Received: from high.voltage.net (arkylady@arky.voltage.net [208.15.104.34]) by www8.clever.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10399 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970419091641.0069c99c@web-trends.com> X-Sender: arkysaw@web-trends.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:16:47 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Susie Ward Subject: DNS/pppd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dialups were working great, they could go anywhere inside or outside my network, but I was still using SWB as my primary DNS. Yesterday I setup my own primary DNS, did nslookups, etc using my DNS server to check it, all seemed well. Updated my NIC info to change to my own DNS server which doesnt actually get updated until tonite. I tried dialing up and I couldnt get anywhere, couldnt even telnet into my own domain. So nothing is working locally or outside my network thru pppd. I havent changed anything in my pppd settings, so I'm assuming this is a DNS related problem. Could this possibly be because NIC hasnt updated it yet? That doesnt really make sense, but the fact that it just stopped working while my DNS server seems to be operating properly doesnt really make sense either. If anyone has any idea of something that I can check that might be causing this it would be greatly appreciated, we are planning to start signing people up Monday! TIA Susie Ward Voltage Networks From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 07:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19861 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (gfoster.intr.net [207.32.93.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19846; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08481; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199704191447.KAA08481@tbd.gfoster.com> To: gpalmer@freebsd.org CC: sysop@mixcom.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <15920.861419057@orion.webspan.net> (gpalmer@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One issue that I haven't seen raised in this overlong discussion are the legal consequences of standard netnews administration. Of course it is illegal to destroy any evidence that a crime has been committed, whether or not you know about the crime (it is called obstruction of justice). Does this make it OK to expire any groups except the groups that are likely to contain "kiddie porn" or other illegal material? Only half a ":-)" here! (I guess this would be ".-,"). It would be enlightening to see a lawyer's considered opinion about the defensibility of standard ISP practices in dealing with questionable material. I suspect much would hinge on intent, if you think porn is OK then you can expire it, if you think it is illegal or potentially illegal then you can't. If someone believes that criminal acts are occurring then it is their responsibility to report them to the authorities. Please don't read this as me trying to be alarmist. I doubt that there is any real threat unless "the authorities" have some other reason to target a particular ISP. However, it is not unknown for them to use every weapon at their disposal for the purpose of coercion or prosecution. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor am I likely to be offerred a TV role as one. Glen Foster >From: "Gary Palmer" >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:04:17 -0400 > >Lucky we have this thing called `expire' *grin* From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 08:58:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23745 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwpros.com (nwpros.com [205.229.128.214]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23740 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.229.128.230] ([205.229.128.230]) by nwpros.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA19784; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:05:22 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970419095405.3f2f5948@nwpros.com> X-Sender: freebsd@nwpros.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:54:05 To: Damian Hamill , danlaw@rust.net From: "Sam Hayes Merritt, III" Subject: Re: News... Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3358D095.7566F4CF@cablenet.net> References: <1.5.4.32.19970418141941.006dbfd8@wrcmail> <3357FB46.7E51@rust.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:03 PM 4/19/97 +0100, Damian Hamill wrote: >There will soon be a very cost effective satellite news feed available >in Europe. I understand the pricing might be something like $2000-$3000 >US setup fee and $15 per year subscription (yes I said fifteen dollars >per year). I understand that bandwidth is unlimited and the full news >feed will be delivered. Okay, unlimited? how? there is a limit somewhere. And $15 seems like a WAY underestimate. =) From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 09:06:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24225 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24214; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id LAA24590; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:06:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA00494; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:02:31 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:02:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: Glen Foster cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, sysop@mixcom.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Liability (was: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...)) In-Reply-To: <199704191447.KAA08481@tbd.gfoster.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Along with news, what about my encrypted mail. Is an ISP a potential federal target if a user's encrypted mail is suspected of "terrorist" communication? What is an ISP's liability if they filter out encrypted mail? BTW, I never felt much need of encryption until the gov't got their panties in a knot over key escrow. -- Jay On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Glen Foster wrote: ->One issue that I haven't seen raised in this overlong discussion are ->the legal consequences of standard netnews administration. -> ->Of course it is illegal to destroy any evidence that a crime has been ->committed, whether or not you know about the crime (it is called ->obstruction of justice). Does this make it OK to expire any groups ->except the groups that are likely to contain "kiddie porn" or other ->illegal material? Only half a ":-)" here! (I guess this would be ->".-,"). -> ->It would be enlightening to see a lawyer's considered opinion about ->the defensibility of standard ISP practices in dealing with ->questionable material. I suspect much would hinge on intent, if you ->think porn is OK then you can expire it, if you think it is illegal or ->potentially illegal then you can't. If someone believes that criminal ->acts are occurring then it is their responsibility to report them to ->the authorities. -> ->Please don't read this as me trying to be alarmist. I doubt that ->there is any real threat unless "the authorities" have some other ->reason to target a particular ISP. However, it is not unknown for ->them to use every weapon at their disposal for the purpose of coercion ->or prosecution. -> ->Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor am I likely to be offerred a TV role ->as one. -> ->Glen Foster -> ->>From: "Gary Palmer" ->>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:04:17 -0400 ->> ->>Lucky we have this thing called `expire' *grin* -> From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 09:14:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24622 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA24613 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA15696 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:14:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA03775 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:09:39 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:09:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote: > I wonder what would happen if Bigpond (Telstra - the monopolizing telco in > Australia - their internet access thingy) suddenly came under this threat? I wondered the same thing when Sympatico (from Bell Canada, the monopoly telco) started up in November 1995 advertising full USENET feeds and "family" Interet services. But nobody ever bothered to check them out and report publicly. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 11:41:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01228 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01223 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0wIf4f-0008uTC; Sat, 19 Apr 97 11:41 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: News... To: danlaw@rust.net Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: damian@cablenet.net, dg@root.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3357F448.34A9@rust.net> from "Sysadmin" at Apr 18, 97 06:23:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > True. As the internet evolves the customer will be using it and the > bandwidth they buy from you more completely. But will next month's > debate be over CU-Seeme (sp?), RealVideo, Push technology And three guesses as to what they'll do with the new technology; if you want a hint, go look at Microsoft's NetMeeting directory... An ISP's job is to be an Internet Service Provider, not to be moral guardian. -- Alan Batie ______ It's not my fault! It's some guy batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / named "General Protection"! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Ratbert PGP FP: DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 \/ 7A 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 12:26:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04385 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA04376 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA18939 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:26:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05333 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:21:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Liability (was: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Jay D. Nelson wrote: > Along with news, what about my encrypted mail. Is an ISP a potential > federal target if a user's encrypted mail is suspected of "terrorist" > communication? Target? The ISP might be served with a court order to give copies of the email to the FBI but they will not attempt to lay any charges against the ISP. > What is an ISP's liability if they filter out encrypted > mail? Major liability. The Electronic Communications and Privacy Act require the ISP to deliver the email to the recipient and to *NOT* look at the email's contents unless it is absolutely necessary in maintaining the email system. So the law says that an ISP has to mind their own business and the same law also requires the FBI to *NOT* interfere with the operations of the mail server or prevent the delivery of mail to other recipients. This has been clearly settled by case law in the Steve Jackson Games case. Now in other countries there are usually no specific laws that apply but ISP's probably would be found legally responsible to behave the same way as the postal system in those countries. This generally means that once mail is on your server you cannot look at the contents and you must do everything possible to deliver the email to the recipient. Because of this, whenever I have had to help a customer get rid of multimegabyte email messages, I always use PINE to delete them so that I cannot see the content of any messages in the mailbox. > BTW, I never felt much need of encryption until the gov't got their > panties in a knot over key escrow. The UK government also has their knickers in a knot over key escrow. BTW, I am not a lawyer. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 12:44:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA05175 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05133 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA12313 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970419154835.00baa620@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:48:35 -0400 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: VPN with encrypted data stream (SKIP doesnt work with 2.2.x) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk SKIP looks like a great product, but unfortunately, it doesnt want to work with 2.2.x >From the readme file o This package does not currently compile or run on FreeBSD 2.2. FreeBSD 2.2 is still work in progress and thus, is not supported for this release. A cursory compile on FreeBSD 2.2 indicates a change in the loadable kernel interface that we didn't have time to look into fully. Are there any alternatives to SKIP, or has anyone heard if Sun plans to port SKIP to 2.2.x ? At 12:03 PM 4/13/97 -0400, Tom Torrance at home wrote: >check out http://skip.incog.com > >> >> >> On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: >> >> > Does anyone have any suggestions how I might construct a Virtual Private >> > Network with an encrypted data stream? >> > >> > The scenario is two FreeBSD systems that are Internet gateways for a company >> > that has offices in several states. And they want to transfer files, email, >> > fileserver traffic etc. via the Internet but keep it secure. ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 12:59:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA05854 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.tierranet.com (dt6h3n8a.san.rr.com [204.210.37.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05848; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from r2d2 ([192.168.0.3]) by bubba.tierranet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA02807; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970419125734.009d0c20@gateway> X-Sender: csamarit#sdcc10.ucsd.edu@gateway (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:57:34 +0100 To: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org From: Chris Samaritoni Subject: Controlled bandwidth sharing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We have at our disposal for outgoing bandwidth: . a router with a dedicated T-1 @ 1.5mbps (flat rate $$) . a 10baseT switched port on a shared OC-3 (metered rate $$) Currently we are on the switched port -- current bandwidth requirements are about 1mbps sustained and about 8mbps burst. Our provider wants us to move to a T-1, but we'll lose the nice burst capacity if we move to the T-1. Ideally, we'd like: . first 1.5mbps routed to the T-1 . additional bandwidth routed to the switch when needed I talked to our provider, and they said we should look for a software solution. I'm guessing that what needs to be done is have FreeBSD's default router changed dynamically (many times per second?) to adjust for bandwidth conditions. We want to take advantage of the flat rate T-1 as much as possible so we don't have to pay very much on the metered switch. Any ideas? Chris Samaritoni chris@ucsd.edu From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 13:32:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08130 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@153.denver-001.co.dial-access.att.net [207.147.16.153]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08091 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01110 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:38:06 -0600 Message-ID: <33592D2E.62FBEEB8@denverweb.net> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:38:06 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: News... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alan Batie wrote: > An ISP's job is to be an Internet Service Provider, not to be moral guardian. I' am still interested in knowing exactly how NOT providing every high bandwidth, possibly illegal, content group, costitutes ANY kind of a morality judgement. It think it is a business choice, pure and simple. Which groups are MORE LIKELY to contain illegal porn? comp.os.foo.X alt.sex.teen.binaries. That does not mean that comp.os.foo.X will NEVER have an illegal porn image. But I seriously doubt that I would be held liable ( by a jury ) for a message on that group that was clearly outside of the subject of the group. On the other hand, I cannot see any possible defense against charges that I was making illegal porn available on the other group. I would imagine that a really good lawyer might get me off the hook if some overzealous law enforcement agency wanted to prosecute me, but really good lawyers are VERY expensive. The only judgement that I can see that I would be making is not exposing my ass to every net-cop-censor-law-enforcement-agency. The best way to do that, in my opinion, is not carry certain groups, or host "adult" sites. The side benefit is lower bandwidth requirements. When the government comes after your ass, they tend to have far more resources and manpower at their disposal than any ISP. If they decide to seize your equipment as evidence, you could find yourself screwed. Most of your customers are not going to give a flying fox about how "RIGHT" you are, and how much the government is violating your fourth amendment rights, etc. They want their service, and if you cannot deliver, they will take their money elsewhere. Sure, you MIGHT win, you MIGHT get your equipment back, but in the meantime, you still have bills to pay, and your customer base is GONE. So, If someone chooses to not place themselves at such risk, that has nothing to do with morality. If someone feels that they are untouchable, and that the constitution still hold the government at bay, fine. You are perfectly free to carry any newsgroup, host any kind of site, and maybe they will leave you alone. Good luck. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 14:01:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10269 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cwia.com (mail.cwia.com [207.212.72.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10259 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.107.161.204] ([199.107.161.204]) by mail.cwia.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22514 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33593232.137C@cwia.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:59:30 -0700 From: CRSparks Organization: World Internet System Resources X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: unsubscribe isp-freebsd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe isp-freebsd CRSparks From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 14:04:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10434 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cwia.com (mail.cwia.com [207.212.72.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10422 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [199.107.161.204] ([199.107.161.204]) by mail.cwia.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22543 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335932EB.6805@cwia.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:02:35 -0700 From: CRSparks Organization: World Internet System Resources X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: unsubscribe freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG CRSparks From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 14:10:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11122 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11111; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA15377; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970419170726.00b0f4c4@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:07:33 -0400 To: Chris Samaritoni , questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org From: dennis Subject: Re: Controlled bandwidth sharing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:57 PM 4/19/97 +0100, Chris Samaritoni wrote: >We have at our disposal for outgoing bandwidth: > >. a router with a dedicated T-1 @ 1.5mbps (flat rate $$) >. a 10baseT switched port on a shared OC-3 (metered rate $$) > >Currently we are on the switched port -- current bandwidth requirements are >about 1mbps sustained and about 8mbps burst. Our provider wants us to move >to a T-1, but we'll lose the nice burst capacity if we move to the T-1. >Ideally, we'd like: > >. first 1.5mbps routed to the T-1 >. additional bandwidth routed to the switch when needed > >I talked to our provider, and they said we should look for a software >solution. I'm guessing that what needs to be done is have FreeBSD's default >router changed dynamically (many times per second?) to adjust for bandwidth >conditions. We want to take advantage of the flat rate T-1 as much as >possible so we don't have to pay very much on the metered switch. > >Any ideas? Our bandwidth manager for freebsd can control your bandwidth....we are adding a new feature, called the Burst Manager, that will do just what you want, I think. You can see info on the ET/BWMGR at http://www.etinc.com. The Burst Manager should be available in a few weeks.... Regards, Dennis Baasch Emerging Technologies, Inc. Router cards for BSD/OS, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OPenBSD and Linux Standalone Routers Bandwidth Allocation/Limiter Manager http://www.etinc.com sales@etinc.com (516) 271-4525 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 15:31:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19468 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19461 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id RAA25029; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:30:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00924; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:35:06 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:35:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: Michael Dillon cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Liability (was: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk That's reassuring -- thanks for the reply. (And a good hint about Pine.) I'm not an ISP, but in a sense, I'm stuck in the middle. I'm the admin between my company's ISP and our users. Due to other liabilities, e.g., sexual harrasment, child porn, or "objectionable material", etc., on company systems, liability, similar to an ISP (I hope but not sure) falls on me. This is a subject that has my full attention. I am in Austin, so I'm familiar with Steve Jackson. He was vindicated but nearly destroyed with not even an apology. I think we should be _very_ alert. FWIW, I agree that binaries have no place in news and would be happy to see them go. You see, while my ISP is sucking up 3-4 gigs of reposted porn, (or X number of joe users redownload reposted porn) my internet response goes down the toilet. Anyway -- my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. -- Jay On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Michael Dillon wrote: -> ->On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Jay D. Nelson wrote: -> ->> Along with news, what about my encrypted mail. Is an ISP a potential ->> federal target if a user's encrypted mail is suspected of "terrorist" ->> communication? -> ->Target? The ISP might be served with a court order to give copies of the ->email to the FBI but they will not attempt to lay any charges against the ->ISP. -> ->> What is an ISP's liability if they filter out encrypted ->> mail? -> ->Major liability. The Electronic Communications and Privacy Act require the ->ISP to deliver the email to the recipient and to *NOT* look at the email's ->contents unless it is absolutely necessary in maintaining the email ->system. So the law says that an ISP has to mind their own business and the ->same law also requires the FBI to *NOT* interfere with the operations of ->the mail server or prevent the delivery of mail to other recipients. This ->has been clearly settled by case law in the Steve Jackson Games case. -> ->Now in other countries there are usually no specific laws that apply but ->ISP's probably would be found legally responsible to behave the same way ->as the postal system in those countries. This generally means that once ->mail is on your server you cannot look at the contents and you must do ->everything possible to deliver the email to the recipient. -> ->Because of this, whenever I have had to help a customer get rid of ->multimegabyte email messages, I always use PINE to delete them so that I ->cannot see the content of any messages in the mailbox. -> ->> BTW, I never felt much need of encryption until the gov't got their ->> panties in a knot over key escrow. -> ->The UK government also has their knickers in a knot over key escrow. -> ->BTW, I am not a lawyer. -> ->Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting ->Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 ->http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com -> From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 17:14:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA24299 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24293 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27144; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:14:35 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:14:34 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: David Nugent cc: "Jay D. Nelson" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script In-Reply-To: <19970419155834.37337@usn.blaze.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, David Nugent wrote: > On Sat Apr 19 13:41:11 EST 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan writes: > > > The man page references 'login.conf(5)'. Does that man page exist > > > somewhere? > > > > Apparently not. It is not in the -current sources on freefall. > > Yes, it is - it has been there for a while, but it doesn't > belong in 2.2 and prior since only 3.0 current has login.conf > support. I looked in freefall:/home/ncvs/src/share/man/man5 and could not find it. Where does it live? Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 17:16:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA24387 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24382 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27159; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:16:34 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:16:33 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: routed and small subnets In-Reply-To: <199704190722.RAA17902@spooky.eis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > I am trying to get routed to add routes for a couple of small subnets I have > hanging of ppp dialup modems. All systems are FreeBSD 2.2 You have two choices: continually add static routes using ip-up/ip-down, or use gated. I use gated quite happily. Others use ip-up/ip-down. I'll share my gated.conf with you if you like. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 17:56:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25937 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25929; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA13222 ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27202; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:29:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:28:59 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Chris Samaritoni cc: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Controlled bandwidth sharing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970419125734.009d0c20@gateway> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Chris Samaritoni wrote: > We have at our disposal for outgoing bandwidth: > > . a router with a dedicated T-1 @ 1.5mbps (flat rate $$) > . a 10baseT switched port on a shared OC-3 (metered rate $$) > > Currently we are on the switched port -- current bandwidth requirements are > about 1mbps sustained and about 8mbps burst. Our provider wants us to move > to a T-1, but we'll lose the nice burst capacity if we move to the T-1. > Ideally, we'd like: > > . first 1.5mbps routed to the T-1 > . additional bandwidth routed to the switch when needed Is the metering inbound only? I would guess that you have more inbound traffic than outbound. If that is the case, you'll have to control the packets' disposition on your feed's side of the link. This is going to be tricky. I have a bandwidth limiter using divert(4) sockets which you might be able to use as a framework to write your own daemon for this. Alternatively, if you keep specific routing info on the FreeBSD box upstream of the link, you can take the code which reads route info packets and bytes and use the info to adjust the destination for particular routes as required, to do the balancing. Another possibility would be to use mpd in ppp-over-tcp mode and hack it to do bandwidth on demand. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 18:41:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27473 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27468 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0wIldD-00098OC; Sat, 19 Apr 97 18:41 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: News... To: bminazzi@denverweb.net (Blaine Minazzi) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <33592D2E.62FBEEB8@denverweb.net> from "Blaine Minazzi" at Apr 19, 97 02:38:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I' am still interested in knowing exactly how NOT providing every high > bandwidth, possibly illegal, content group, costitutes ANY kind of a > morality judgement. It think it is a business choice, pure and simple. If you drop binary groups to cut volume, you're right. The tone of the discussion here, however, is "these are groups I think poorly of, and this is how I can get rid of them to cut the volume without getting in trouble". If you want to drop groups because you think they're not cost effective, feel free --- it's outside the scope of this list. What is in the scope is discussing how to configure FreeBSD so it can economically handle the load. Personally, I don't have time, nor the right, to decide what's good, bad or indifferent, and the discussion of it certainly doesn't belong here. -- Alan Batie ______ It's not my fault! It's some guy batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / named "General Protection"! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Ratbert PGP FP: DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 \/ 7A 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 20:43:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01273 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01268 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08861; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:43:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19970420134303.33361@usn.blaze.net.au> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:43:03 +1000 From: David Nugent To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" Cc: "Jay D. Nelson" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD account Delete Script References: <19970419155834.37337@usn.blaze.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69e In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel O'Callaghan on Sun Apr 20 10:14:34 EST 1997 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun Apr 20 10:14:34 EST 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan writes: > > > > The man page references 'login.conf(5)'. Does that man page exist > > > > somewhere? > > > > > > Apparently not. It is not in the -current sources on freefall. > > > > Yes, it is - it has been there for a while, but it doesn't > > belong in 2.2 and prior since only 3.0 current has login.conf > > support. > > I looked in freefall:/home/ncvs/src/share/man/man5 and could not find > it. Where does it live? Manpages only live under share/man if there's no other more appropriate place. The login_cap api is part of libutil, so you'll find it and all the manpages in lib/libutil. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 22:13:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA04762 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agni.nuko.com ([207.82.229.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04754; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vinay@localhost) by agni.nuko.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA16052; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:12:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199704200512.WAA16052@agni.nuko.com> Subject: Need a common passwd file among machines To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I need a common passwd file that is shared by a FreeBSD machine, Linux machine, Solaris and a SunOS machine. I do not want to use NIS. I thought of using rdist to distribute the passwd file among all these machines but could not because some of them use shadow passwd files and others don't. Also, I am not sure the passwd encryption is the same on all these platforms. More generally, the reason I am using this approach is to make the developement of code easier by using cvs. I have one machine exporting the cvs source tree and others mount it. To keep the same uids, I need to share the passwd files. Does anyone have a better suggestions? Thanks Vinay From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 19 23:04:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA06695 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06690; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA02308; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:05:19 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Vinay Bannai cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <199704200512.WAA16052@agni.nuko.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Vinay Bannai wrote: > Hi folks, > > I need a common passwd file that is shared by a FreeBSD machine, Linux > machine, Solaris and a SunOS machine. I do not want to use NIS. > I thought of using rdist to distribute the passwd file among all these > machines but could not because some of them use shadow passwd files and > others don't. It will be better to use ftp or even scp and make scripts generate files in formats, all systems use from "master" password file that is kept on sysadmin's box, then automatically ftp/scp it to other ones. Shadow/nonshadow syncronization can be done in simple cron jobs. > Also, I am not sure the passwd encryption is the same on all > these platforms. DES-based encryption is supported on all of those systems (FreeBSD by default doesn't use it though). You can also modify Linux, SunOS and Solaris libraries to use the same encryption as FreeBSD. -- Alex P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication information from that server to always perform authentication locally and never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login.