From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Aug 2 17:30:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03123 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03118; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z38WD-0007L0-00; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:30:29 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA00331; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:29:57 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21492; Mon, 3 Aug 98 01:29:55 BST Message-Id: <35C5108E.1B39EF60@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 01:21:18 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brandon Huey , Josef Grosch , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD References: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Saturday, 1 August 1998 at 3:34:22 -0700, Brandon Huey wrote: > > > > i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in > > Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the > > linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the > > likes, where they normally are. > > :-) > > Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. > > They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. > And in the UK it's available from David Grant Crawley in Prescot http://www.dgc-nms.co.uk along with the CD's. > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Aug 2 23:33:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05312 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05307; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16432; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:33:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980802233306.A16416@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:33:06 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg Lehey , Brandon Huey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:05:11AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:05:11AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Saturday, 1 August 1998 at 3:34:22 -0700, Brandon Huey wrote: >> >> i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in >> Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the >> linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the >> likes, where they normally are. > >:-) > >Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. > >They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. I have been listing Borders, Barnes & Noble, et al. under "National" My thinking was that these are national book chains and will carry "The Complete FreeBSD" in most of their larger stores. I may have to re-think my position. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.8 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 00:37:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12312 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12294; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA12836; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:07:06 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA26831; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:58 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980803170658.K25942@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:58 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Brandon Huey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD References: <19980801022441.A1493@mooseriver.com> <19980802080511.H11960@freebie.lemis.com> <19980802233306.A16416@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980802233306.A16416@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 11:33:06PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 2 August 1998 at 23:33:06 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:05:11AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Saturday, 1 August 1998 at 3:34:22 -0700, Brandon Huey wrote: >>> >>> i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in >>> Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the >>> linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the >>> likes, where they normally are. >> >> :-) >> >> Yes, I do this, too, though I suppose I have an ulterior motive. >> >> They're also available at Borders in Austin, TX. > > I have been listing Borders, Barnes & Noble, et al. under "National" My > thinking was that these are national book chains and will carry "The > Complete FreeBSD" in most of their larger stores. I may have to re-think my > position. No, I think I need to learn how to read. I thought "National" was one of your States. At least, that's my claim. Seriously, how about putting "National" up the front before the list of the states and making it obvious that it's not just another state listing? Most people will look for their state first and ignore the others. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 03:30:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02731 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02726 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@helan.org) Received: from helan.org (bamboo.tis [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22798; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:26:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C590B4.D718D7CC@helan.org> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 11:28:04 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eric S. Raymond" CC: Francisco Reyes , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: branding References: <199808011634.JAA06160@newsguy.com> <19980801125556.A20894@snark.thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > By "used" I don't mind they have a test box in a dusty corner. I mean > > companies like Yahoo which run their business (all their http servers > > with FreeBSD) on Open Source programs. > > I'm willing to carry stuff like this. Yahoo's case study is already on > the site. How about the imagebase at http://www.thinker.org/ ? I think their database is already larger than Terraserver (don't let that reference put you off, try it - there is absolutely *no* comparison :-) and growing. Details of the Berkeley CS Tertiary Disk project that it runs on are at http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td/ (follow 'architecture of our prototype' link for the rather impressive pictures, OS and hardware details - for anyone interested, they use FreeBSD-current on 20x P6-200's, 98mb ram each, two PC's to a SCSI chain, and 370 8gb disks...) Stuart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 08:00:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05665 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.mbc-nsc.com ([204.193.70.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05650 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: by firewall.mbc-nsc.com; id JAA08679; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(172.16.30.26) by firewall.mbc-nsc.com via smap (V3.1.1) id xma008663; Mon, 3 Aug 98 09:50:25 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:57:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDBEC5.2B6C6240.rayseals@midwestis.com> From: Ray Seals Reply-To: "rayseals@midwestis.com" To: "'Brandon Huey'" , Josef Grosch Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: Retail outlets for FreeBSD Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:57:46 -0500 Organization: Midwest Information Systems X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Borders in St. Louis at 270 and Olive also carries _The Complete FreeBSD_. I have converted another one this week, Gate's army is short by at least one more! Ray -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Huey [SMTP:bh@synergy.transbay.net] Sent: Saturday, August 01, 1998 5:34 AM To: Josef Grosch Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Retail outlets for FreeBSD i see a good supply of _The Complete FreeBSD_ at the Borders in Emeryville, CA on a regular basis. i try to move a copy or two into the linux area, leaving a few in the proximity of _magic garden_ and the likes, where they normally are. i don't know the address.... it's part of the Emeryville Public Market on Shellmound -bh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 13:16:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01872 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snark.thyrsus.com ([192.190.237.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01785 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from esr@snark.thyrsus.com) Received: (from esr@localhost) by snark.thyrsus.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25493; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:10:50 -0400 Message-ID: <19980803111048.D25414@snark.thyrsus.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:10:48 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Stuart Henderson Cc: Francisco Reyes , "freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: branding References: <199808011634.JAA06160@newsguy.com> <19980801125556.A20894@snark.thyrsus.com> <35C590B4.D718D7CC@helan.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 In-Reply-To: <35C590B4.D718D7CC@helan.org>; from Stuart Henderson on Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 11:28:04AM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stuart Henderson : > How about the imagebase at http://www.thinker.org/ ? Looks nonprofit. But you can have somebody associated with the project send me a short writeup for consideration. -- Eric S. Raymond "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 21:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27681 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from transbay.net (synergy.transbay.net [209.133.53.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27669 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@synergy.transbay.net) Received: from localhost (bh@localhost) by transbay.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA03832 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@synergy.transbay.net) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:39:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Huey To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ZDNet study shows FreeBSD indeed stable Message-ID: X-Copyright: (C)1998 Brandon Huey; Forwarding prohibited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG not terribly scientific, but worth a look http://www.zdnet.co.uk/athome/misc/toot/output/57.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Aug 3 22:36:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03650 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:36:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03640; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15480; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:36:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:36:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This seems to apply to both -chat and -advocacy, so don't kill me. :-) Sorry if this has already been posted, but this looks quite interesting. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/5601/ FreeBSD already has a few votes, and voting (one vote per dollar donated) helps out a worthy cause. So, any philanthropic FreeBSD users out there? :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Aug 4 01:37:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18167 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.promo.de (mail.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18151 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from d254.promo.de (d254.Promo.DE [194.45.188.254]) by mail.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05356; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:36:21 +0200 From: Stefan Bethke To: Brandon Huey cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ZDNet study shows FreeBSD indeed stable Message-ID: <78927.3111215781@d254.promo.de> In-Reply-To: Originator-Info: login-token=Mulberry:01QJJ+JbMG44vfAaTL3LsC X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.4.0a8, s/n Evaluation] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3. Aug 1998 21:39 Uhr -0700 Brandon Huey wrote: > not terribly scientific, but worth a look > > http://www.zdnet.co.uk/athome/misc/toot/output/57.html Hey, whataheck of hard data! If you try with AltaVista, you'll even find only 3 distict documents! (eliminating 1 link to ZDNet's page, multiple occurences of Hypermail index pages and a now defuct page :-) Also nice: http://electriclichen.com/linux/srom.html -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Aug 4 06:00:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20388 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (intschool.easynet.co.uk [194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20383 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27656; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:50:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C703A4.CAA637F5@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 13:50:44 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =esr@snark.thyrsus.com CC: reyesf@newsguy.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: branding References: <199808011634.JAA06160@newsguy.com> <19980801125556.A20894@snark.thyrsus.com> <35C590B4.D718D7CC@helan.org> <19980803111048.D25414@snark.thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > Stuart Henderson : > > How about the imagebase at http://www.thinker.org/ ? > > Looks nonprofit. Yes, it does. It's also a very good example of what free software can do. MS use Terraserver as a demonstration of the quality and response time of their database/web integration systems, which show potential commercial users what they're like. (http://www.ntk.net/doh/terra980710.gif ;-) I think the comparison with TS is quite valid (they are after all doing quite a similar thing to a similar amount of data - I don't know much about the internals of either but they do appear quite similar...), and is a comparison likely to be drawn by many visitors even without it being pointed out to them... I don't know what page you would be thinking of adding examples to but I presume http://www.opensource.org/cases.html which says: > Here you can learn what third parties have to say about the power of the > open-source model. Much of this material discusses Linux, but the lessons > are not specific to Linux; they apply to open source in general. This doesn't suggest anything about profit-vs-nonprofit anyway, and something like thinker.org is far more impressive than the names of some of the for-profits on the Linux-biz page you link to - for example how many suits are even going to scroll down past the ISPs and software developers to get to something they might recognise? Yes, I realise that the page I mention isn't at opensource.org but it's a fairly prominent link. (freebsd does have a commercial gallery btw, at http://www.freebsd.org/cgallery.html, although there is nowhere near as much information as the linuxbiz page). Names like Sony, Fluke, 3com, Boeing, Mercedes-Benz, US Postal Service *will* get recognized if they're seen, but when they're 5 or 6 screens down the page, a lot of people won't make it far enough to see them. > But you can have somebody associated with the project > send me a short writeup for consideration. Sorry, I don't know anyone associated with the project, I'm just trying to suggest something that makes free software look *very* good - I could do a writeup if you like but it will just be constructed from what I can find on the web. Anyone reading know more about it than me? Stuart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Aug 4 08:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23626 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23535; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA27694; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:41:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:45:01 -0400 To: Chris Dillon , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:36 AM -0500 8/4/98, Chris Dillon wrote: > Sorry if this has already been posted, but this looks quite > interesting. > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/5601/ > > FreeBSD already has a few votes, and voting (one vote per dollar > donated) helps out a worthy cause. So, any philanthropic FreeBSD > users out there? :-) Note that the web page says: Final vote will be based on money received by Saturday, June 6, 1998, so don't forget to follow up... My watch may be running fast, but I believe it's already after June 6th. The votes you see on the page are the final results for this year. Save up your contributions though, as they might very well run the contest again next year... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Aug 4 14:30:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28551 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:30:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28546 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrG-28.aei.ca [206.186.205.78]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08787; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35C77BE1.4EE6A637@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 17:23:45 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Bethke CC: Brandon Huey , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ZDNet study shows FreeBSD indeed stable References: <78927.3111215781@d254.promo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stefan Bethke wrote: > > On Mon, 3. Aug 1998 21:39 Uhr -0700 Brandon Huey > wrote: > > > not terribly scientific, but worth a look > > > > http://www.zdnet.co.uk/athome/misc/toot/output/57.html > > Hey, whataheck of hard data! > > If you try with AltaVista, you'll even find only 3 distict documents! > (eliminating 1 link to ZDNet's page, multiple occurences of Hypermail index > pages and a now defuct page :-) > > Also nice: http://electriclichen.com/linux/srom.html > > -- > Stefan Bethke > Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 > + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 > Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE > D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ Sometimes, I see 5 deifferent peoples saying "Hey, click on that link, and vote for us". May it be more effective if we put somewhere on freebsd.org all thoses link where we have to vote to show to the world how great is FreeBSD! If there where a page where I could see all current place to vote, it would be so more easy than searching in my 200 mail a day to support. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Aug 4 18:55:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11974 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11965; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18547; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:55:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:55:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Garance A Drosihn cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Note that the web page says: > > Final vote will be based on money received by Saturday, > June 6, 1998, so don't forget to follow up... > > My watch may be running fast, but I believe it's already after June 6th. > The votes you see on the page are the final results for this year. Save > up your contributions though, as they might very well run the contest > again next year... > Uuuh... My bad. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 00:14:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01154 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 00:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01145 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 00:14:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA03769 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:14:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:14:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Extended / Replaced Utilities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm a UNIX user and system administrator for a couple of years now. Some years ago I tried Linux and FreeBSD and decided for the latter one. One reason was that FreeBSD behaves much more than a traditional UNIX system than Linux. I don't need a colorized ls command, I don't need a corrupted terminal after a remote login from a DEC or SUN workstation to a Linux box (ok - recent versions behave less worse) and so on. Now I observe that for example 2.2.6-RELEASE comes with a drastically (to my mind) changed ftp client. I read in the release notes the 2.2.7-RELEASE has an ls command with many new options. Excuse me - but now I seem to be irritated. Where does FreeBSD go? Will it leave the traditional BSD line which seems to be strong argument for using FreeBSD? I'm interested in other people's opinion here. May be advocacy is not the best newsgroup to discuss it but there seems to be some relationship. Konrad Heuer // Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH // Goettingen (GWDG), Am Fassberg, D-37077 Goettingen, Germany // // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 09:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12951 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:32:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main-sd1.artnetonline.com ([194.75.26.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA12944 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from di-040.hamburg.dialin-gw.net (di-040.hamburg.dialin-gw.net [195.90.225.40]) by main-sd1.artnetonline.com (NTMail 3.03.0013/1.abqk) with ESMTP id ra914125 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:31:18 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 18:34:01 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: kuehl@lgk.de From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl To: Konrad Heuer Subject: RE: Extended / Replaced Utilities Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Aug-98 Konrad Heuer wrote: > > I'm a UNIX user and system administrator for a couple of years now. Some > years ago I tried Linux and FreeBSD and decided for the latter one. One > reason was that FreeBSD behaves much more than a traditional UNIX system > than Linux. I don't need a colorized ls command, I don't need a corrupted > terminal after a remote login from a DEC or SUN workstation to a Linux box > (ok - recent versions behave less worse) and so on. That agrees fairly well with experience and preferences. FreeBSD appeared to be the much better tool for accomplishing useful work. > Now I observe that for example 2.2.6-RELEASE comes with a drastically (to > my mind) changed ftp client. I read in the release notes the 2.2.7-RELEASE > has an ls command with many new options. Excuse me - but now I seem to be > irritated. Where does FreeBSD go? Will it leave the traditional BSD line > which seems to be strong argument for using FreeBSD? The move is at recognisable, and could be considered distinctly underlined against the background of the recent personel changes. > I'm interested in other people's opinion here. May be advocacy is not the > best newsgroup to discuss it but there seems to be some relationship. It is probably the best list. The FreeBSD community should thoroughly cogitate whether it was a good idea to get technically closer to Linux while remaining a BSD in terms of PR. Lars /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Lars Gerhard Kuehl Phone: +49 40 54768010 Mobile: +49 171 9307085 Fax : +49 40 54768012 Email : kuehl@lgk.de #ifdef is your friend, and everyone's else enemy #endif /* is your friend */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 09:59:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17384 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org ([206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17368; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA04581; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808051659.KAA04581@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:59:00 -0600 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: O'Reilly: Donation to FSF optional Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just received word from O'Reilly that the $10 donation required to attend their "Open Source Town Meeting" will be OPTIONAL. You can request that it be earmarked for other purposes. So, if you don't feel comfortable supporting the FSF (which disparages the FreeBSD effort regularly on its Web pages and in live presentations), say so! It might be worthwhile to send the message. Could someone pass the word to the Apache folks and others who don't worship the Holy GPL? ;-) --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 11:03:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28084 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28075 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:03:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA47934; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:03:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:07:03 -0400 To: Konrad Heuer , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Extended / Replaced Utilities Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:14 AM +0200 8/5/98, Konrad Heuer wrote: > Now I observe that for example 2.2.6-RELEASE comes with a drastically > (to my mind) changed ftp client. I read in the release notes the > 2.2.7-RELEASE has an ls command with many new options. Excuse me - but > now I seem to be irritated. Where does FreeBSD go? Will it leave the > traditional BSD line which seems to be strong argument for using FreeBSD? > > I'm interested in other people's opinion here. May be advocacy is not > the best newsgroup to discuss it but there seems to be some relationship. The Advocacy mailing list is meant as a place to discuss "what ways can we promote FreeBSD to new audiences". It is not meant in the usenet (newsgroup-naming) sense of "Let's put all the flame-wars here!". Adding features to 'ls' may make freebsd more useful to some people. As long as new features do not *break* the options that you are used to using, I don't see too much of a problem with it. I don't know what the old ftp client was like, but I do like the ftp client that I found with freebsd. As a relative newcomer to freebsd, that was one of the things where I thought "hey, that's cool" when I saw it. So the change you found so "drastic" is one of the things that promoted freebsd to *me*, as one sample individual. If you're determined to say that no unix command should be allowed to have any new options over time, then I would expect that you won't be able to advocate freebsd to anyone except the people who were using BSD ten years ago. To me, any operating system which will not evolve over time is bound to be a dead operating system. So, if you're asking the question "how do we promote freebsd to more users?", then the topic of new features is a good one. If you're just looking for a flame-fest between people who don't want any change vs people who are maybe too eager to change too much too fast, then this will be a very pointless exercise. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 11:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29541 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29536 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28494; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Konrad Heuer cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extended / Replaced Utilities In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:14:05 +0200." Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: <28490.902340503@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now I observe that for example 2.2.6-RELEASE comes with a drastically (to > my mind) changed ftp client. I read in the release notes the 2.2.7-RELEASE > has an ls command with many new options. Excuse me - but now I seem to be > irritated. Where does FreeBSD go? Will it leave the traditional BSD line > which seems to be strong argument for using FreeBSD? No. I think you're over-reacting to a few cosmetic changes. Many people LIKE the new changes to FTP. Many people have requested a *new* flag for ls (which nobody is forced to use) which would allow filenames with weird characters in them to be displayed properly. Don't mistake "traditionalism" for "stagnation" since the latter is what you appear to be arguing for. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Aug 5 19:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06268 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06262 for freebsd-advocacy; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199808060205.TAA06262@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: FreeBSD-2.2.7 in MicroCenter To: freebsd-advocacy Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG received a print mailing from microcenter. they are selling FreeBSD-2.2.7 (along with a lot of other stuff) another retail outlet, if anyone is keeping track. just the 4-CDrom set, is listed, dont know if they have the book or not. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Aug 6 01:09:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21927 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21908 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA06021; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:09:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:09:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extended / Replaced Utilities In-Reply-To: <28490.902340503@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Now I observe that for example 2.2.6-RELEASE comes with a drastically (to > > my mind) changed ftp client. I read in the release notes the 2.2.7-RELEASE > > has an ls command with many new options. Excuse me - but now I seem to be > > irritated. Where does FreeBSD go? Will it leave the traditional BSD line > > which seems to be strong argument for using FreeBSD? > > No. I think you're over-reacting to a few cosmetic changes. Many > people LIKE the new changes to FTP. Many people have requested a > *new* flag for ls (which nobody is forced to use) which would allow > filenames with weird characters in them to be displayed properly. > > Don't mistake "traditionalism" for "stagnation" since the latter > is what you appear to be arguing for. Your mail represents most replies in the most concise way so I will only reply to your's - I don't want to flood the list with replies. Ok, my first mail was a little bit provoking. I don't want stagnation. I don't want to blame Linux in a non-objective way. But as far as I know Berkeley's CSRG always was careful and not including all the numberless possible options and utility improvements one can imagine. Who should read the resulting infinite and confusing man pages? I hope the FreeBSD team will keep that tradition and I'm optimistic. Konrad Heuer // Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH // Goettingen (GWDG), Am Fassberg, D-37077 Goettingen, Germany // // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Aug 6 01:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23217 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:21:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from UPIMSSMTPUSR02 (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23207 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:21:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fanelson@email.msn.com) Received: from default - 153.35.67.233 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bdc049$a7204f20$e9432399@default> From: "Frank Nelson" To: Subject: Free BSD Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:54:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Our school (Maine West, Des Plaines IL) is wanting to start a web page, and host it on their own machine. I'd like to set them up with this o/s. Also i'm interested in starting a non-profit isp. Not to mention the D. P. public library that greatly needs an update to their system. I'd like 30 cd's to get started. My mailing address is: Frank Nelson III 519 Harvey Des Plaines IL, 60016 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Aug 6 07:36:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13638 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13613 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02989; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35C9BF4C.3E602ACD@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 08:35:56 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Nelson CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Free BSD References: <000001bdc049$a7204f20$e9432399@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Nelson wrote: > > Our school (Maine West, Des Plaines IL) is wanting to start a web page, and > host it on their own machine. I'd like to set them up with this o/s. Also > i'm interested in starting a non-profit isp. Not to mention the D. P. public > library that greatly needs an update to their system. I'd like 30 cd's to > get started. My mailing address is: Cool! Can you arrange to have the library and/or school put up some posters in a public place advertising their use of FreeBSD, and give CDs to interested students/(whatever you call library customers)? This sounds like a nice little advocacy opportunity. And to think, I have a good friend who is a librarian, and never thought of this. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Aug 6 11:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20721 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20700 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 4173 invoked by uid 1032); 6 Aug 1998 18:08:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19980806130812.A2539@enteract.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:08:12 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-2.2.7 in MicroCenter Mail-Followup-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org References: <199808060205.TAA06262@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <199808060205.TAA06262@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Wed, Aug 05, 1998 at 07:05:53PM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Aug 05, 1998 at 07:05:53PM -0700, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > received a print mailing from microcenter. they are selling > FreeBSD-2.2.7 (along with a lot of other stuff) another > retail outlet, if anyone is keeping track. just the 4-CDrom > set, is listed, dont know if they have the book or not. last time i was there, i looked in the OS aisle for FreeBSD, later finding it in the "budget CD-ROM" rack. :) -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Aug 6 17:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16195 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16071 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA30930; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:30:02 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id RAA32637; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:26:54 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Wes Peters cc: Frank Nelson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Libaries Was: Free BSD In-Reply-To: <35C9BF4C.3E602ACD@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >This sounds like a nice little advocacy opportunity. And to think, I >have a good friend who is a librarian, and never thought of this. ;^) You know.... UW has a database for libraries that it uses called "Willow" that runs under AIXVAXVMSHPPUX or something like that. It even has a Winblows client. This database handles 5 Million volumes in our library of congress repository. It's really pretty cool. The Willow client source is available for X. Methinks I have another project to add to a never shrinking list of projects. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Aug 7 09:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02907 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02901; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12002; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:35:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980807093549.A11978@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:35:49 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: August BAFUG Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, August 13. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on August 22 at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. Jordan Hubbard will give a short talk about the recent 2.2.7 and the upcoming 2.2.8 and 3.0 (Yeah!) release. Josef Grosch will give a short talk about databases for FreeBSD. This will be the first in a continuing series. Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a scratch monkey machine for use at the Install-a-thons. Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 8:00ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html http://www.reef.com http://www.freebsd-support.com Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen or Josef Grosch on or before August 12 so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com $Id: Aug98Announce.txt,v 1.3 1998/08/07 16:32:12 jgrosch Exp $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Aug 7 16:41:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21670 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21654; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id QAA17554; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:41:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:41:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Josef Grosch cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-sf@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: August BAFUG Meeting In-Reply-To: <19980807093549.A11978@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sadly I won't be able to make it. I will be on east coast for an NFR class :( .. on the other hand, I'll make sure everyone uses FreeBSD for NFR while I am there. :) -- Yan Jan Koum www.best.com/~jkb jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." "Write longer sentences - they are paying us a lot of money" On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group > -- BAFUG -- > > > >The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly >meeting on Thursday, August 13. This months meeting will be held at The >Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will >start at 7:30 pm. > > >Agenda: > Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the > upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on August 22 at the Robert Austin > Computer show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. > > Jordan Hubbard will give a short talk about the recent 2.2.7 and the > upcoming 2.2.8 and 3.0 (Yeah!) release. > > Josef Grosch will give a short talk about databases for FreeBSD. This > will be the first in a continuing series. > > Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a scratch monkey > machine for use at the Install-a-thons. > > Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. > > Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics > > >Location: > This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. > The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison > Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. > > >Time: > The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 8:00ish. We > generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. > > >Directions: > > By Muni: > Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights > stop nearby. > > By BART: > Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning > left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, > on the right (south) side. > > By Car: > From the South Bay and Peninsula > Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn > left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed > eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa > dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th > Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. > > From the East Bay: > Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th > street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine > blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes > under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed > about one full block, and park where you can. > > From the North Bay: > Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into > Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van > Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. > > >WWW info: > More info can be found at the following URLs > > http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html > http://www.reef.com > http://www.freebsd-support.com > > >Contact: > Please contact either Ian Kallen or Josef Grosch on or before August 12 > so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will > need. > > Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com > Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com > > >$Id: Aug98Announce.txt,v 1.3 1998/08/07 16:32:12 jgrosch Exp $ > > >-- >Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 >jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Aug 8 09:37:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29707 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29702 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:36:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from unalmodem03.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15552; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:17:00 -0400 Message-Id: <35CC7E51.CDDB479B@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 11:35:30 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Anyone else wanting a native port of the General Mesh Viewer? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Frank Ortega, the author of GMV, told me that I am the first person to ask for a FreeBSD port of his utility. He also stated that at Los Alamos National Laboratory he didn't know anyone using FreeBSD, but if we prove (by requesting the port) that a FreeBSD version would be useful he wouldn't doubt in releasing a binary. If you are interested, please drop Frank a line: http://www-xdiv.lanl.gov/XCM/gmv/GMVHome.html cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Aug 8 12:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15392 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:18:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15360 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-72.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.72]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA85388; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 19:17:43 GMT Message-ID: <35CCA425.46F585E6@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 12:16:53 -0700 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: August BAFUG Meeting References: <19980807093549.A11978@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anybody who wants to carpool up from the northern LA area (Northridge), call me @ 818-718-6999. As it happens, I'm off this week, and I'd really like to meet the heads behind these talking fingers I've been e-mailing to... :) -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [dwilde1 @ ibm.net] [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Aug 8 23:50:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17822 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17810; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA06219; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:19:47 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA11260; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:19:08 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980809161908.B11095@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:19:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Glenn Johnson Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list Subject: Re: help in convincing management not to supplant Unix with NT References: <199808090309.WAA00774@gforce.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808090309.WAA00774@gforce.bellsouth.net>; from Glenn Johnson on Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 10:09:37PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved to -advocacy. I don't suppose -questions is really wrong, but -advocacy is probably better. On Saturday, 8 August 1998 at 22:09:37 -0500, Glenn Johnson wrote: > Greetings, > > At my place of employment, the management team, who are basically computer > illiterate, have decided that there should be no Unix machines providing > network or Internet services, only NT machines. Sure, that makes sense. The Internet runs on UNIX. Why use it to connect? My sumpathies. > I am trying to convince them that this would be a mistake. This > situation is complicated by the fact that the Network Administrator > does not know anything about Unix and has shown an unwillingness to > learn. Over the last 4 months, the AIX machine that the previous > Network Administrator setup has been running happily without any > intervention, while the NT servers have crashed at least twice a > month. I personally have six FreeBSD machines (workstation usage) > that have been running without any problems; but this does not seem > to be enough evidence. > I, along with a couple of other people are trying to present > evidence to keep Unix systems running at our site. I searched the > FreeBSD archives and found the reference to the article by John > Kirsch about Unix vs. NT and have submitted that to management. I am > curious if anybody else has had to go through this type of nonsense > and could provide any pointers. I am particularly interested in Unix > vs. NT for mail service. I've been collecting some URLs. You might like to check out these (I've left out the Kirch article) http://gpg.com/cnme/0496/file91.html http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html?jw (this is the first of three or four articles on the subject; follow up via the links) http://www.bsdi.com/info/ntvsunix (from BSDI, who of course have their axe to grind. But they have some good links on this page). http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/msapogee.html (a bit old now, and possibly not so relevant) http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980730/crl_networ_1.html (read how wcarchive.cdrom.com, running FreeBSD, outperformed 40 Microsoft machines running NT). This is still my favourite. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message