From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 04:35:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07918 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:35:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beast.gu.net (beast-fxp0.gu.net [194.93.191.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07912 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beast.gu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10634 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:35:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:07:54 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Whom should I talk to, about FreeBSD on Alpha platform? Seems that something interesting might happen here... Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 07:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00527 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beast.gu.net (beast-fxp0.gu.net [194.93.191.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00517 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beast.gu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA11903; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:06:31 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:06:31 +0300 (EEST) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: bsd mailing lists cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As for me, I'm not that big a porting guru, so I'm interested mostly in the current state of the project; is there a runnable version of FreeBSD, for DEC Alpha processor, at all? On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, bsd mailing lists wrote: > I am interested too in the FreeBS Alpha porting > whi I can ask for this? > thanks > > Rick > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Andrew Stesin wrote: > > > > > Whom should I talk to, about FreeBSD on Alpha platform? > > Seems that something interesting might happen here... > > > > > > Best regards, > > Andrew Stesin > > > > nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 11:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12587 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:15:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12566 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:14:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA13472; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:00:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04295; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:52:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980602195243.A4287@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:52:43 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: stesin@gu.net, bsd mailing lists Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew Stesin on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 05:06:31PM +0300 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 05:06:31PM +0300, Andrew Stesin wrote: > > As for me, I'm not that big a porting guru, so I'm interested > mostly in the current state of the project; is there a runnable > version of FreeBSD, for DEC Alpha processor, at all? Ask John Birrell... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 11:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17061 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server6.singular.com (server6.singular.com [204.140.208.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17053 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbarbee@singular.com) Received: from dhcp136 ([204.140.208.136]) by server6.singular.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42397U400L100S0) with SMTP id AAA350 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:37:57 -0700 From: jbarbee@singular.com (John Barbee) Reply-To: jbarbee@singular.com To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: future of slpha port Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:36:37 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was given to netbsd. are there any future plans for freebsd and alpha or is that project permanently closed? we bought an alphastation 200 and are deciding what to run on it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 12:49:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27130 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA27124 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0ygx3H-0007ge-00; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:48:55 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA04287; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806021949.NAA04287@harmony.village.org> To: jbarbee@singular.com Subject: Re: future of slpha port Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:36:37 PDT." <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> References: <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 13:49:28 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> John Barbee writes: : are there any future plans for freebsd and alpha or is that project : permanently closed? The FreeBSD/alpha project is alive and well. We have loaner H/W and progress is being made.... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 12:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27609 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27604 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA10668; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806021939.MAA10668@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: jbarbee@singular.com Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:39:47 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:36:37 -0700 jbarbee@singular.com (John Barbee) wrote: > i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was given to netbsd. What does that _mean_? NetBSD/alpha has existed for a fairly long time, and was done completely independently of any FreeBSD work in that area. > are there any future plans for freebsd and alpha or is that project permanently > closed? > > we bought an alphastation 200 and are deciding what to run on it. Well, you certainly can run NetBSD/alpha on it. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 13:03:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29754 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29720 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:03:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06222; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd006128; Tue Jun 2 13:02:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA03944; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:02:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806022002.NAA03944@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: future of slpha port To: jbarbee@singular.com Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:02:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> from "John Barbee" at Jun 2, 98 11:36:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was > given to netbsd. are there any future plans for freebsd and > alpha or is that project permanently closed? FreeBSD'ers have subsequentlky bought their own hardware. The FreeBSD Alpha port user space is being worked on by John Birrell, who has committ4ed many 64 bit cleanups to the main source tree, as well as /sys/alpha/... files. The kernel port is nearly to the point of being single user on the SimOS Alpha simulator running on top of Linux on Alpha, according the Doug Rabson's recent postings to -current. > we bought an alphastation 200 and are deciding what to run on it. Right now, you should run NetBSD or Linux (or NT, if you don't have the OSF PALcode, and it's not supported by "milo"). If you are talking about the near term future, your best bet would be to contact Doug Rabson and John Birrell directly with your expected time frame. I suspect that a release is at least as far off as the 3.0-release itself. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 13:54:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07757 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07747 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:54:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA21330; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:03:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806022103.HAA21330@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> from John Barbee at "Jun 2, 98 11:36:37 am" To: jbarbee@singular.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:03:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Barbee wrote: > i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was given to netbsd. > are there any future plans for freebsd and alpha or is that project permanently > closed? I think you might be referring to the work that Jeffrey Hsu and Terry Lambert did porting NetBSD/Alpha to the AXPpci33 (a.k.a. noname). This wasn't FreeBSD - they used the NetBSD/Alpha port done by Chris Demetriou. The noname work was contributed by Jeffrey back to NetBSD and at least partly re-written by Chris AFAIK. FreeBSD/Alpha is actively being worked on. Much of the FreeBSD source tree will now build and run as FreeBSD/Alpha using FreeBSD tools. The ports, for instance, can successfully run configure scripts which identify the system as alpha-unknown-freebsd3.0 and correctly build. I'm working on the port of modula-3 to support CVSup. This requires linker mods. > > we bought an alphastation 200 and are deciding what to run on it. NetBSD will run nicely on this machine. If you might want to run FreeBSD on it eventually, then put NetBSD on it now. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:01:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08638 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08630 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA21371; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:10:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806022110.HAA21371@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD/Alpha -- ? In-Reply-To: from Andrew Stesin at "Jun 2, 98 05:06:31 pm" To: stesin@gu.net Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:10:06 +1000 (EST) Cc: bsd@righi.ml.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Stesin wrote: > > As for me, I'm not that big a porting guru, so I'm interested > mostly in the current state of the project; is there a runnable > version of FreeBSD, for DEC Alpha processor, at all? There is a runnable version of FreeBSD/Alpha but I'd say it is only suitable for those who want to contribute to the development. There is an awful lot of ports in FreeBSD that need to be built on FreeBSD/Alpha. It's ready for that. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09512 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero.simon-shapiro.org.142.69.207.in-addr.arpa [207.69.142.25] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA09504 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@sendero.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 27977 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jun 1998 22:08:45 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806021949.NAA04287@harmony.village.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: future of slpha port Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, jbarbee@singular.com Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 02-Jun-98 Warner Losh wrote: > In message <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> John Barbee writes: >: are there any future plans for freebsd and alpha or is that project >: permanently closed? > > The FreeBSD/alpha project is alive and well. We have loaner H/W and > progress is being made.... I have access (hopefully :-) to a Server 2100. Can that help? Simon --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG 770.265.7340 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11351 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11343 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA21444; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:28:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806022128.HAA21444@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Jun 2, 98 06:08:45 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:28:23 +1000 (EST) Cc: imp@village.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, jbarbee@singular.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro wrote: > I have access (hopefully :-) to a Server 2100. Can that help? That kinda depends on the person who logs into it. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13517 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero.simon-shapiro.org.142.69.207.in-addr.arpa [207.69.142.25] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA13507 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@sendero.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 29400 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jun 1998 22:33:09 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806022128.HAA21444@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: John Birrell Subject: Re: future of slpha port Cc: jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 02-Jun-98 John Birrell wrote: > Simon Shapiro wrote: >> I have access (hopefully :-) to a Server 2100. Can that help? > > That kinda depends on the person who logs into it. 8-) Me for sure. You if I can get ownership. Anyone you recommend if I get ownership, etc. To get ownership, I need to state truthfully that it is needed for this task. Simon --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG 770.265.7340 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:34:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13914 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13905 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA21513; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:44:01 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806022144.HAA21513@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Jun 2, 98 06:33:09 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:44:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 02-Jun-98 John Birrell wrote: > > Simon Shapiro wrote: > >> I have access (hopefully :-) to a Server 2100. Can that help? > > > > That kinda depends on the person who logs into it. 8-) > > Me for sure. You if I can get ownership. Anyone you recommend if I get > ownership, etc. If you are serious about working on this, you need a dedicated disk bigger than 2G. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 14:49:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17198 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mauswerks.net (root@ns.mauswerks.com [204.152.96.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17171 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:49:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from feral.com (mjacob@gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by ns.mauswerks.net (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA22821; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:50:35 -0700 Received: (from mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA06351; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:48:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:48:55 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Message-Id: <199806022148.OAA06351@feral.com> To: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com Subject: Re: future of slpha port Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, I'd like to actually finally say that it's a great shame that FreeBSD and NetBSD are different efforts- the NetBSD alpha effort is in quite good shape- and I've been somewhat reluctant to try and duplicate this for FreeBSD. Is there any way the FreeBSD port can import the extremely solid NetBSD/alpha work? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 15:04:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20126 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:04:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20106 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA21579; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:13:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806022213.IAA21579@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <199806022148.OAA06351@feral.com> from Matthew Jacob at "Jun 2, 98 02:48:55 pm" To: mjacob@feral.com (Matthew Jacob) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:13:39 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob wrote: > Yes, I'd like to actually finally say that it's a great shame > that FreeBSD and NetBSD are different efforts- the NetBSD alpha > effort is in quite good shape- and I've been somewhat reluctant > to try and duplicate this for FreeBSD. Is there any way the > FreeBSD port can import the extremely solid NetBSD/alpha work? I would prefer that the machine dependent parts of the kernel keep compatibility. IMO, the userland area is where the two projects have a different focus, and therefore a different userbase. My personal opinion is that NetBSD and FreeBSD should be merged, but I accept the fact that there are reasons why that can't happen. For serveral years I've had to effectively support two user-land interfaces (headers and libraries) in order to be able to use FreeBSD/i386 and NetBSD/Alpha. As it stands now, I only have one. FreeBSD's source tree successfully builds with a NetBSD syscall interface in libc. I guess I am now treating NetBSD/Alpha as a kernel, and yes, that _is_ extremely solid thanks to cgd, Jason and yourself (amongst others). -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 15:11:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21555 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21492; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA246; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:09:53 +0200 Message-ID: <35747853.60DFED19@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:10:27 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Rabson CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? There's a nice documentation of the Alpha PALcode on http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/dsc-library.html Or you can directly order the EBSDK and get the source for the PALcode. The SRM Consle doc describes the bootsprapping process of an Alpha system. And so on... -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 16:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28660 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28589 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10829; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: jbarbee@singular.com cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 11:36:37 PDT." <98060211384501.00278@dhcp136> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: <10825.896828512@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was given to netbsd Where did you hear this rubbish? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 16:15:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01453 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server6.singular.com (server6.singular.com [204.140.208.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01442 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbarbee@singular.com) Received: from dhcp136 ([204.140.208.136]) by server6.singular.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42397U400L100S0) with SMTP id AAA272; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:16:49 -0700 From: jbarbee@singular.com (John Barbee) Reply-To: jbarbee@singular.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: future of slpha port Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:17:02 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.5.5] Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98060216173701.00270@dhcp136> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Our top operatives report that on Tue, 02 Jun 1998, you wrote: :P> i was told that when the loaner went away, the alpha port was given to netbsd :P :PWhere did you hear this rubbish? :P :P- Jordan from a mailing search Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:57:42 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert To: garys@silcom.com Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support for DEC Alpha ? Message-ID: <199605291757.KAA13803@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199605290612.XAA22011@beach.silcom.com> from "garys@silcom.com" at May 28, 96 11:12:10 pm Next in thread | Previous in thread | Raw E-Mail | Current Archive | Help > > Do you support, or plan to support the DEC Alpha? > For right now, at least, you want the NetBSD Alpha port. There was significant progress on the 21064 PCI Alpha systems for a FreeBSD port, when the loaner machines had to go back. The lions share of the useable work (Jeffrey Hsu's) was integrated into the NetBSD Alpha port. If someone else has an Alpha port in progress, I don't know about it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. www@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 17:24:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13002 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12991 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:24:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11165; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:24:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: John Birrell cc: jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:03:58 +1000." <199806022103.HAA21330@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:24:01 -0700 Message-ID: <11161.896833441@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think you might be referring to the work that Jeffrey Hsu and Terry > Lambert did porting NetBSD/Alpha to the AXPpci33 (a.k.a. noname). This > wasn't FreeBSD - they used the NetBSD/Alpha port done by Chris Demetriou. > The noname work was contributed by Jeffrey back to NetBSD and at least > partly re-written by Chris AFAIK.e Ahhh right, I'd forgotten about that early abortive little attempt. This may indeed be where the original poster was confused. The 4 Alphas which Digital loaned to us many months ago now are a different story, and of those we basically now have 3 on indefinite loan status from DEC. The 4th, a multiprocessor ALPHAserver, never made it through the Australian customs barrier to its intended recipient and was eventually simply returned to Digital. That will be the first and last time I attempt to have any significant piece of hardware sent into that country. :-( In any case, things seem to be going well with the FreeBSD/alpha project and if I can ever figure out why things are still mysteriously falling over for me on my own alpha when building the FreeBSD-current source tree, I'll try a prototype release build at some point. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 17:31:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13704 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13696 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:31:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA22063; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:40:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806030040.KAA22063@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <11161.896833441@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 2, 98 05:24:01 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:40:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > The 4 Alphas which Digital loaned to us many months ago now are a > different story, and of those we basically now have 3 on indefinite > loan status from DEC. The 4th, a multiprocessor ALPHAserver, never > made it through the Australian customs barrier to its intended > recipient and was eventually simply returned to Digital. That will be > the first and last time I attempt to have any significant piece of > hardware sent into that country. :-( Argh, don't say that! It should have been possible to get it in on demo status. There is probably a special form to fill out. Where are the other alphas (you have 1)? Are they being used? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 18:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22634 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:18:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22587 for freebsd-alpha; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hsu) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199806030118.SAA22587@hub.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-alpha Subject: Re: future of slpha port Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think you might be referring to the work that Jeffrey Hsu and Terry > Lambert did porting NetBSD/Alpha to the AXPpci33 (a.k.a. noname). This > wasn't FreeBSD - they used the NetBSD/Alpha port done by Chris Demetriou. > The noname work was contributed by Jeffrey back to NetBSD and at least > partly re-written by Chris AFAIK. Yes, that was something I did on my own several years ago. I tried to get loaner equipment from the various Alpha and Alpha clone manufacturers for hardware to port to. Unfortunately, I got very little support on this from the outside hardware vendors and inside FreeBSD. I think the time wasn't right for FreeBSD to accept another architecture port. In any case, I got two loaner units, worked on the kernel port for two months, first getting NetBSD ported to that particular bus and platform. Among other things, an important result of that work was a crucial fix to the NetBSD/Alpha vm system which at that time wasn't setting the dirty bit on pages that had been swapped out, completely breaking virtual memory on all platforms, not just the one I was working on. I also hauled my units to a Linux Daze forum at DECUS in San Francisco, a room full of vendors (including DEC which was paying several engineers fulltime to work on the Linux alpha port) demoing Linux running on the Alpha platform. I was a lone voice in a room of Linux nuts, but I perserved until the manufacturer that lent me the two units requested the units back, at which time I had to stop working on the port. A darn shame too, as I had made great progress and was about to integrate the NetBSD pieces into FreeBSD. It just about broke my heart when this project ended. Jeffrey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 2 19:15:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01085 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01079; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11767; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: freebsd-alpha@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:18:14 PDT." <199806030118.SAA22587@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:15:33 -0700 Message-ID: <11763.896840133@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD. I think the time wasn't right for FreeBSD to accept > another architecture port. In any case, I got two loaner units, I think you're right about that. It was a great shame, but the timing just wasn't there. Not your fault you were simply ahead of your time. :-) > the port. A darn shame too, as I had made great progress and was about > to integrate the NetBSD pieces into FreeBSD. It just about broke > my heart when this project ended. Well that's a real bummer and I wish I'd known more about the amount of effort you were putting in since, from my very remote perspective on things at time, it just looked like something you and Terry were doing very casually - kinda of an afterschool hack project or something. I never realized you'd gone so far as to try and demo it before DEC or anything like that - much of your posting is new news to me. Not that I necessarily could have made a difference, but I might have tried harder to intervene with Digital and get hardware from them as I later did when I deemed the time more "right" to add an extra architecture to FreeBSD's stable (and even then, I was probably about 4-6 months too early :-). I'm really not doing a _whole_ lot with this Durango box, and it's even faster than the machines that the others (Warner, Doug, David) got from DEC, would this project be something you'd be interested in reviving (especially now that you've at least got folks like Doug and John as substantial co-contributors) if you had some hardware to use again? I'd need some sort of access to it again when it came time to actually build a FreeBSD/alpha CD, of course, but I'm really not using it for much more than sending John B. lots of mysterious build problem reports these days and I'd be happy to hand it over to you. It's also got an ideal configuration for porting: NetBSD 1.3.2 (with X and a decent 4MB Matrox gfx card for sitting in front of) sits on one 4GB drive and "FreeBSD" in whatever experimental state sits on another 4GB drive. Both environments work well enough that I've been able to use one for resurrecting the other when something bad happened to it and the SRM bios makes it easy to boot either drive. Speaking of unused Alphas, what are David G. and Warner doing with their own Miata boxes these days? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 00:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21123 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21105 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13275; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:53:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: John Birrell cc: jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 10:40:25 +1000." <199806030040.KAA22063@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:53:58 -0700 Message-ID: <13271.896860438@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Argh, don't say that! It should have been possible to get it in on > demo status. There is probably a special form to fill out. One would have thought that Digital Holland, the shippers, would have been more than familiar with the arcanities of customs procedures and how to declare things in the most advantageous possible manner (anyone as familiar with the byzantine european protocols as the Dutch should have no trouble with the australian ones). Given the number of machines Digital ships to trade shows, I would also be very surprised if the demo angle hadn't been one of the earliest tried. I think it was simply too much for the aussie customs to swallow that a US company would want to loan a machine valued in the six-dollar-digit range to some guy living in the suburbs somewhere. :-) > Where are the other alphas (you have 1)? Are they being used? There were 3 Miatas loaned to David Greeman, Warner Losh and Doug Rabson. I got the PC164 system myself from Aspen systems in Colorado. That's why mine is also the only one currently running NetBSD. :( That said, from what I hear, things are definitely looking up for NetBSD on the Miata in the not-too-distant future. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 05:10:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00346 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00279 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:10:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id UAA19305; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:08:39 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806031208.UAA19305@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 10:40:25 +1000." <199806030040.KAA22063@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 20:08:38 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Birrell wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The 4 Alphas which Digital loaned to us many months ago now are a > > different story, and of those we basically now have 3 on indefinite > > loan status from DEC. The 4th, a multiprocessor ALPHAserver, never > > made it through the Australian customs barrier to its intended > > recipient and was eventually simply returned to Digital. That will be > > the first and last time I attempt to have any significant piece of > > hardware sent into that country. :-( > > Argh, don't say that! It should have been possible to get it in on > demo status. There is probably a special form to fill out. Unfortunately, there were other problems too. One of the three items got "lost", the three packages got sent to the wrong place, got shipped via three different carriers, none of the shippers were going to do anything until insurance claims were done - but they didn't know what was missing as there were problems with the shipping documentation, plus there was a hefty bond that they wanted somebody to pay (to the tune of about AU$20K) and so on. The DEC folks in the UK were under the impression that the the bond had been paid, but the folks here knew nothing about it. :-( The people here were not going to let anybody near it until the bond was paid, but the DEC folks were under the impression it already had. And so, nobody was able to check to see if there was a shipping documentation error (ie: whether it was packed differently to the documentation and there ended up being only one package in addition to the 135kg pallette, so there was no chance of an insurance claim getting started, and so on. It was doomed right from the start, there were way too many people involved who didn't know what was going on.. It was a damn shame. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 12:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09433 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09409; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00651; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:18:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:18:48 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: IBS / Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <35747853.60DFED19@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, IBS / Andre Oppermann wrote: > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if there is documentation available for the ARC or > > AlphaBIOS boot sequence? In particular, what services does the firmware > > provide to the bootstrap program (e.g. linload.exe). Alternatively, does > > anyone know where I can find the source code to linload.exe? > > There's a nice documentation of the Alpha PALcode on > http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/dsc-library.html > > Or you can directly order the EBSDK and get the source for the PALcode. > > The SRM Consle doc describes the bootsprapping process of an Alpha > system. > > And so on... I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS bootstrap process which is far less well documented. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 12:56:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17737 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17698 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01059; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:56:36 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:56:36 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Matthew Jacob cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <199806022148.OAA06351@feral.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Matthew Jacob wrote: > Yes, I'd like to actually finally say that it's a great shame > that FreeBSD and NetBSD are different efforts- the NetBSD alpha > effort is in quite good shape- and I've been somewhat reluctant > to try and duplicate this for FreeBSD. Is there any way the > FreeBSD port can import the extremely solid NetBSD/alpha work? I have drawn very heavily on NetBSD in my porting efforts so far. Much of the code in locore.s could be used unchanged or with small modifications. I am using a pmap ported from FreeBSD/i386 however since I don't really understand the differences in the pmap/vm interface between NetBSD and FreeBSD. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 13:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23642 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23559; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA306; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:20:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3575B047.CA3A1D46@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:21:27 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Rabson CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson wrote: -snip- > I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's > bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS > bootstrap process which is far less well documented. Alpha has no BIOS in the 'Intel/PC' sense. What you need is the SROM, it contains the power-up and initial bootstrap code. There's a complete SKD avail. with SROM Mini-Debugger and all the stuff you need: http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/mbsdkpb.pdf -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 13:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29102 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29082; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12227; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd012195; Wed Jun 3 13:48:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01096; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:48:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806032048.NAA01096@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: future of slpha port To: hsu@FreeBSD.ORG (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:48:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-alpha@hub.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199806030118.SAA22587@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Jun 2, 98 06:18:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I was a lone voice in a room of Linux nuts, > but I perserved until the manufacturer that lent me the two units > requested the units back, at which time I had to stop working on > the port. A darn shame too, as I had made great progress and was about > to integrate the NetBSD pieces into FreeBSD. It just about broke > my heart when this project ended. It was a strange recall, at that. The recall was not from a technical person, it was from the sales manager, who hadn't even initiated a loan. I asked if I could purchase the thing instead of returning it, but the answer was (strangely) "No". I asked about purchasing a replacement several times, but the guy never returned my calls; a sales manager who didn't want to sell... very bizarre. After Jeffrey had the PCI code up, I made some minor console patches for minimal usability of "vi" (the NetBSD generic console code was... strange; it had a 5 line scroll trigger margin for use on slow bitmap displays), and had a NetBSD/Alpha booting to single user mode with FreeBSD's VM system. This was back before the huge set of changes John checked in for optimization and so on. I basically gave up trying to track the changes on my PPC at that point. None of my stuff made it back into NetBSD, unless Jeffrey forwarded the console patches. I was also very upset, since the request for the machine back came pretty much out of the blue, with no warning whatsoever. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 14:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08887 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08869 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:38:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00439; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:38:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806032138.QAA00439@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: from Doug Rabson at "Jun 3, 98 08:56:36 pm" To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:38:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: mjacob@feral.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson said: > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > Yes, I'd like to actually finally say that it's a great shame > > that FreeBSD and NetBSD are different efforts- the NetBSD alpha > > effort is in quite good shape- and I've been somewhat reluctant > > to try and duplicate this for FreeBSD. Is there any way the > > FreeBSD port can import the extremely solid NetBSD/alpha work? > > I have drawn very heavily on NetBSD in my porting efforts so far. Much of > the code in locore.s could be used unchanged or with small modifications. > I am using a pmap ported from FreeBSD/i386 however since I don't really > understand the differences in the pmap/vm interface between NetBSD and > FreeBSD. > There are alot of minor differences. The biggest ones are the temporary kernel mappings, and the implementation of pte preloading. Some of the opts aren't very useful for TLB based machines, but some are. The biggest issue is whether or not you want to emulate a referenced bit. If you get it working without referenced bit emulation, I can provide you a few minor mods to the upper level code to make the system work correctly (under load) without them. After that, I'll likely be able to participate with you on a better implementation. (I know that the Alpha PALcode provides a page table interface, I forget if they provide a reference bit emulation.) To help, soon, I can probably look at the NetBSD/Alpha pmap code, and see how compatible they are with our pmap interface. We really do not have to support all entry points, and some that we do support aren't really needed for functionality. (I'll print out a copy for offline reference right away, and look at it.) After looking at the NetBSD Alpha/pmap code, I'll be able to be more coherent in my comments. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 15:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15393 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15380; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01357; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:19:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:19:29 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: IBS / Andre Oppermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AlphaBIOS documentation In-Reply-To: <3575B047.CA3A1D46@pipeline.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, IBS / Andre Oppermann wrote: > Doug Rabson wrote: > -snip- > > I have read most of these documents and I understand the SRM console's > > bootstrap process fairly well. What I need to understand is the AlphaBIOS > > bootstrap process which is far less well documented. > > Alpha has no BIOS in the 'Intel/PC' sense. What you need is the SROM, > it contains the power-up and initial bootstrap code. > > There's a complete SKD avail. with SROM Mini-Debugger and all the stuff > you need: > http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/mbsdkpb.pdf There is a piece of console firmware for alpha systems called AlphaBIOS. This software has an easy to understand gui interface and is designed to boot WinNT. It is compatable at the bootstrap level with the ARC firmware for older WinNT/alpha boxes. This is different from the SRM firmware which is used to boot DU and NetBSD. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 15:25:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16081 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16051; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01402; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:26:09 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:26:09 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "John S. Dyson" cc: mjacob@feral.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <199806032138.QAA00439@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > Doug Rabson said: > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > > Yes, I'd like to actually finally say that it's a great shame > > > that FreeBSD and NetBSD are different efforts- the NetBSD alpha > > > effort is in quite good shape- and I've been somewhat reluctant > > > to try and duplicate this for FreeBSD. Is there any way the > > > FreeBSD port can import the extremely solid NetBSD/alpha work? > > > > I have drawn very heavily on NetBSD in my porting efforts so far. Much of > > the code in locore.s could be used unchanged or with small modifications. > > I am using a pmap ported from FreeBSD/i386 however since I don't really > > understand the differences in the pmap/vm interface between NetBSD and > > FreeBSD. > > > There are alot of minor differences. The biggest ones are the temporary > kernel mappings, and the implementation of pte preloading. Some of > the opts aren't very useful for TLB based machines, but some are. > The biggest issue is whether or not you want to emulate a referenced > bit. If you get it working without referenced bit emulation, I can > provide you a few minor mods to the upper level code to make the system > work correctly (under load) without them. After that, I'll likely > be able to participate with you on a better implementation. I currently emulate the reference bit in pmap itself. I am using the same technique (and a code fragment) that NetBSD does. The PALcode supports three bits in the PTE to generate MM faults on reads, writes and executes of the page. These are separate from the normal kernel/user read/write access bits. The MM fault then records the reference in the pv_head and clears the bits in all the relavent PTEs. > > (I know that the Alpha PALcode provides a page table interface, I > forget if they provide a reference bit emulation.) > > To help, soon, I can probably look at the NetBSD/Alpha pmap code, and > see how compatible they are with our pmap interface. We really do > not have to support all entry points, and some that we do support > aren't really needed for functionality. (I'll print out a copy for > offline reference right away, and look at it.) > > After looking at the NetBSD Alpha/pmap code, I'll be able to be more > coherent in my comments. My own port of your i386 pmap appears to be functional and I will probably commit that in the few days. The only advantage which NetBSD/alpha's pmap has over mine is the support for Address Space Numbers. The alpha can tag each TLB with an ASN to allow two address spaces to have cached mappings for the same virtual address as long as they use different ASNs. I will add ASN support as soon as the dust settles from the initial bootstrap. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 3 16:13:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24272 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24254; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00246; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:57:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806032257.RAA00246@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: from Doug Rabson at "Jun 3, 98 11:26:09 pm" To: dfr@nlsystems.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:57:44 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, mjacob@feral.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson said: > > My own port of your i386 pmap appears to be functional and I will probably > commit that in the few days. The only advantage which NetBSD/alpha's pmap > has over mine is the support for Address Space Numbers. The alpha can tag > each TLB with an ASN to allow two address spaces to have cached mappings > for the same virtual address as long as they use different ASNs. I will > add ASN support as soon as the dust settles from the initial bootstrap. > You are much farther along than I had thought: excellent!!! Unfortunately, I have a few minor pmap interface changes coming up (regarding the arguments being vm_page_t's instead of physical addresses.) This shouldn't be too hard to port to alpha. I am sorry, I would have done this sooner if I had known that you made so much progress!!! -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Jun 4 07:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18460 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18431 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id WAA24637; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:51:53 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806041451.WAA24637@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org cc: John Birrell , jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:33:09 -0400." Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:51:53 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 02-Jun-98 John Birrell wrote: > > Simon Shapiro wrote: > >> I have access (hopefully :-) to a Server 2100. Can that help? > > > > That kinda depends on the person who logs into it. 8-) > > Me for sure. You if I can get ownership. Anyone you recommend if I get > ownership, etc. > > To get ownership, I need to state truthfully that it is needed for this > task. > > Simon An Alphaserver 2000 (or 2100, I don't recall) was the machine that disappeared into paperwork trying to get it here for an SMP angle on the alpha port. Yes, something like this will be needed if there is going to be SMP support, but it's premature until the kernel is up and reasonably stable. SMP is damn hard enough, let alone with a shakey or unstable foundation. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Jun 4 12:06:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11752 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11663 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02106; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:05:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199806041905.OAA02106@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: future of slpha port In-Reply-To: <199806041451.WAA24637@spinner.netplex.com.au> from Peter Wemm at "Jun 4, 98 10:51:53 pm" To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:05:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, jb@cimlogic.com.au, jbarbee@singular.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm said: > > Yes, something like this will be needed if there is going to be SMP > support, but it's premature until the kernel is up and reasonably stable. > SMP is damn hard enough, let alone with a shakey or unstable foundation. > I am almost going CRAZY trying to do the "right things" for SMP in the VM code :-(. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message