From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jun 22 15:43:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11402 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mixer.visi.com (root@mixer.visi.com [209.98.98.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11323; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordquis@visi.com) Received: from bambi.visi.com (nordquis@bambi.visi.com [209.98.98.24]) by mixer.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id RAA19980; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:42:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nordquis@localhost) by bambi.visi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29897; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:42:33 -0500 (CDT) Posted-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:42:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806222242.RAA29897@bambi.visi.com> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha To: jb@FreeBSD.ORG (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Brent J. Nordquist" Reply-to: "Brent J. Nordquist" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi John and FreeBSD/Alpha porters, I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and try to help this effort along. I have an AlphaStation 255 running NetBSD 1.3.2 now, and it's NFS-mounting /usr/src from a FreeBSD -current box (cvsup and checkout as of this morning). John in one of his messages said: > You'll know that when the build > bombs. And you'll need to tell me how it bombs to prove that you have > got that far (and are serious about working on this). 8-) So I'm taking you up on it. ;-) Here's my first error: ------cut here------ cc -pipe -D__NETBSD_SYSCALLS -I/usr/src/usr.bin/make -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -static -o make arch.o buf.o compat.o cond.o dir.o for.o hash.o job.o main.o make.o parse.o str.o suff.o targ.o var.o util.o lstAppend.o lstAtEnd.o lstAtFront.o lstClose.o lstConcat.o lstDatum.o lstDeQueue.o lstDestroy.o lstDupl.o lstEnQueue.o lstFind.o lstFindFrom.o lstFirst.o lstForEach.o lstForEachFrom.o lstInit.o lstInsert.o lstIsAtEnd.o lstIsEmpty.o lstLast.o lstMember.o lstNext.o lstOpen.o lstRemove.o lstReplace.o lstSucc.o main.o: In function `MainParseArgs': main.c(.text+0x19c): undefined reference to `asprintf' main.c(.text+0x1a0): undefined reference to `asprintf' *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. ------cut here------ Now ordinarily, I wouldn't post for help this early, but you also mentioned: > The build of libc needs a temporary patch for vfprintf.c that I don't > want to commit. ...and I wanted to make sure this wasn't related. As a side note, where can I get that patch (and other uncommitted things that occur to you)? Thanks for any help you can offer! -- Brent J. Nordquist / bjn@visi.com W: +1 612 905-7806 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jun 22 16:03:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15590 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15543; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA29214; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:11:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806222311.JAA29214@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199806222242.RAA29897@bambi.visi.com> from "Brent J. Nordquist" at "Jun 22, 98 05:42:32 pm" To: bjn@visi.com Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:11:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > Hi John and FreeBSD/Alpha porters, > > I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and try to help this effort along. I have > an AlphaStation 255 running NetBSD 1.3.2 now, and it's NFS-mounting > /usr/src from a FreeBSD -current box (cvsup and checkout as of this > morning). There is now a quicker way to get up and running if you are prepared to wallop the NetBSD installation or if you have a second disk. This way you get the FreeBSD tools where the 'make world' build expects them to be and you can just build normally. The build leaves out some programs and you continue to use those from NetBSD. I can provide you with tarballs if you want to proceed with this. [ FWIW, there has been a bit of misinformation on some other mailing lists recently. Doug Rabson has committed some files to the FreeBSD source tree that are part of his port of the FreeBSD kernel to the alpha. That is work in progess. There is currently _no_ public distribution of a FreeBSD/Alpha kernel. I (and a few others) use a hacked NetBSD kernel for the time being, but the sources for this will _not_ be committed to the FreeBSD tree. Anyone wanting to work on FreeBSD/Alpha is welcome to use this kernel until Doug is ready. ] > > The build of libc needs a temporary patch for vfprintf.c that I don't > > want to commit. > > ...and I wanted to make sure this wasn't related. As a side note, where > can I get that patch (and other uncommitted things that occur to you)? No patch is required now. The FreeBSD sources have been updated to handle the varargs properly. I haven't seen the build error you quote, but I haven't done a cross build for a while. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jun 22 17:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00459 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mixer.visi.com (root@mixer.visi.com [209.98.98.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00419 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nordquis@visi.com) Received: from bambi.visi.com (nordquis@bambi.visi.com [209.98.98.24]) by mixer.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id TAA09204; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:15:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nordquis@localhost) by bambi.visi.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA02098; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:15:50 -0500 (CDT) Posted-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:15:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806230015.TAA02098@bambi.visi.com> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199806222311.JAA29214@cimlogic.com.au> from John Birrell at "Jun 23, 98 09:11:09 am" To: jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:15:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Brent J. Nordquist" Reply-to: "Brent J. Nordquist" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org | There is now a quicker way to get up and running if you are prepared to | wallop the NetBSD installation or if you have a second disk. Yes, this is a dedicated box for this effort, so I can do what I want with it. Can you define "wallop"? | This way you | get the FreeBSD tools where the 'make world' build expects them to be | and you can just build normally. The build leaves out some programs and | you continue to use those from NetBSD. | | I can provide you with tarballs if you want to proceed with this. I looked at the "Alpha port status page" (green/yellow/red/blue dots) and my idea was to help turn things green. I'll take whatever route will get me to a "productive" state where I can be of some help. If that route is the tarballs, then yes, I'd like them. (Either you can point me to FTP where I can get them, or I can make space available here for you to put them.) | I (and a few others) use a hacked NetBSD kernel | for the time being, but the sources for this will _not_ be committed to | the FreeBSD tree. Anyone wanting to work on FreeBSD/Alpha is welcome | to use this kernel until Doug is ready. Yes, I had understood this. I won't be of much help with kernel hacking; I just need one that is sufficient for userland work. Would this hacked kernel be one of the above-mentioned tarballs? Thanks a lot for your help with getting me going, John. | No patch is required now. The FreeBSD sources have been updated to handle | the varargs properly. Yes, I noticed this one vanish when I cvsupped this morning. -- Brent J. Nordquist / bjn@visi.com W: +1 612 905-7806 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Jun 22 17:26:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01937 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01930 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA29491; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:34:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806230034.KAA29491@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha In-Reply-To: <199806230015.TAA02098@bambi.visi.com> from "Brent J. Nordquist" at "Jun 22, 98 07:15:50 pm" To: bjn@visi.com Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:34:51 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > Yes, this is a dedicated box for this effort, so I can do what I want > with it. Can you define "wallop"? newfs 8-) > > | This way you > | get the FreeBSD tools where the 'make world' build expects them to be > | and you can just build normally. The build leaves out some programs and > | you continue to use those from NetBSD. > | > | I can provide you with tarballs if you want to proceed with this. > > I looked at the "Alpha port status page" (green/yellow/red/blue dots) and > my idea was to help turn things green. I'll take whatever route will > get me to a "productive" state where I can be of some help. If that > route is the tarballs, then yes, I'd like them. (Either you can point > me to FTP where I can get them, or I can make space available here for > you to put them.) I can ftp them direct if that is possible . They're not intended for public consumption at this stage. > Yes, I had understood this. I won't be of much help with kernel hacking; > I just need one that is sufficient for userland work. Would this hacked > kernel be one of the above-mentioned tarballs? Yes. It is convenient to use if you want to work on ports (traditional FreeBSD meaning) because GNU configure scripts identify the system as FreeBSD. Would you mind sending me details of both your i386 and alpha hardware config? The best installation method really depends on whether you will keep a NetBSD disk on the alpha; if you have a SCSI interface on i386 that you can use to dd an image to the disk; etc... -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 23 05:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02592 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.alfalaval.com ([195.67.69.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA02581 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.maniscalco@alfalaval.com) From: nick.maniscalco@alfalaval.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:27:15 +0100 To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: what is there to be done in the userland? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /222000000/222021090/222003282/222200373/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id FAA02584 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well I am hundreds of miles from my computers and without a real internet connection so I am getting kind of bored... What is the status of the userland so far? I'll be back home in the fall and hopefully then I can get to work (and at least try to be productive) Thanks Nick Maniscalco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 23 14:46:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15043 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:46:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14879 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA01878; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:54:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806232154.HAA01878@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: what is there to be done in the userland? In-Reply-To: from "nick.maniscalco@alfalaval.com" at "Jun 23, 98 02:27:15 pm" To: nick.maniscalco@alfalaval.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:54:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org nick.maniscalco@alfalaval.com wrote: > Well I am hundreds of miles from my computers and without a real > internet connection so I am getting kind of bored... > > What is the status of the userland so far? I'll be back home in the > fall and hopefully then I can get to work (and at least try to be > productive) There is a status web page with a link from: http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/freebsd-alpha/ I'll update this RSN. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Jun 23 23:18:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11390 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:18:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feeding.frenzy.com (mrbill@feeding.frenzy.com [205.166.246.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11293 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrbill@feeding.frenzy.com) Received: (from mrbill@localhost) by feeding.frenzy.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id BAA10542; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:17:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980624011749.E21834@frenzy.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:17:49 -0500 From: William Bradford To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does NetBSD 1.3.2 (and therefore FreeBSD) support the Matrox Millenium PCI-bus video card under X? If it does, I can get this horrid AlphaLinux monstrosity off my machine... 8-) (and I'm looking forward to helping with the port in any way I can) -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@frenzy.com ------------------------------------------- "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 13:49:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25206 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25115 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA04737; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:57:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806242057.GAA04737@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: <19980624011749.E21834@frenzy.com> from William Bradford at "Jun 24, 98 01:17:49 am" To: mrbill@frenzy.com (William Bradford) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:57:32 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org William Bradford wrote: > Does NetBSD 1.3.2 (and therefore FreeBSD) support the Matrox Millenium > PCI-bus video card under X? If it does, I can get this horrid AlphaLinux > monstrosity off my machine... 8-) X server support is almost non-existent on NetBSD/Alpha. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 13:51:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25823 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feeding.frenzy.com (mrbill@feeding.frenzy.com [205.166.246.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25729 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrbill@feeding.frenzy.com) Received: (from mrbill@localhost) by feeding.frenzy.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA07529; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980624155104.A23195@frenzy.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:51:04 -0500 From: William Bradford To: John Birrell Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support References: <19980624011749.E21834@frenzy.com> <199806242057.GAA04737@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806242057.GAA04737@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:57:32AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 06:57:32AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > William Bradford wrote: > > Does NetBSD 1.3.2 (and therefore FreeBSD) support the Matrox Millenium > > PCI-bus video card under X? If it does, I can get this horrid AlphaLinux > > monstrosity off my machine... 8-) > X server support is almost non-existent on NetBSD/Alpha. Damn. I'll give it a shot anyway, but if I cant get X of some kind running, I may not be able to help much, since the box is my primary machine. 8-( Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@frenzy.com ------------------------------------------- "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 14:06:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28687 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28601 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA04798; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:14:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806242114.HAA04798@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: <19980624155104.A23195@frenzy.com> from William Bradford at "Jun 24, 98 03:51:04 pm" To: mrbill@frenzy.com (William Bradford) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:14:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org William Bradford wrote: > Damn. I'll give it a shot anyway, but if I cant get X of some kind running, > I may not be able to help much, since the box is my primary machine. 8-( This is why god invented i386 machines - to use as X terminals for X server disadvantaged operating systems like NetBSD/Alpha. 8-) 8-) X clients work fine on NetBSD/Alpha and FreeBSD/Alpha. Doug Rabson is aware of the bus access methods that allow Linux/Alpha to use the i386 XFree servers which don't support the NetBSD bus access methods. This means that FreeBSD/Alpha will eventually be able to support all the X servers that Linux/Alpha does. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 14:55:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09654 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po7.andrew.cmu.edu (PO7.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09568 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po7.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id RAA29989 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lister.net.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lister.net.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.lister.net.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.lister.net.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:53:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: <199806242114.HAA04798@cimlogic.com.au> References: <199806242114.HAA04798@cimlogic.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heh, I can't even install netbsd via monitor as I have an E2 card, so at the time where I didn't have another machine nearby to act as terminal I installed AlphaLinux just to get it active, which I am now regretting ;) What is the issue with the E2&3 cards, AlphaLinux has some (albiet funky) amount of support meaning we could do the same. I'm actually tempted to give it an attempt as uninitatied as I am with doing kernel drivers, nevermind never having used NetBSD. Has anyone looked into this on either the Free- or Net BSD side? Can FreeBSD convince Digital to get the full specs on these TGA cards? They are VERY nice cards and would make would X server proud. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 15:44:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19239 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19164 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21935; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: William Bradford cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:17:49 CDT." <19980624011749.E21834@frenzy.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:44:27 -0700 Message-ID: <21930.898728267@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does NetBSD 1.3.2 (and therefore FreeBSD) support the Matrox Millenium > PCI-bus video card under X? If it does, I can get this horrid AlphaLinux > monstrosity off my machine... 8-) Nope. CGD sent me a really nice detailed message (which I have yet to reply to - oops!) detailing why XFree86 servers weren't proving to be very portable to the Alpha hardware platform without lots and lots of compat hacks which, apparently, the Linux folks have done. Whether we or NetBSD will ever manage this (without gagging) is an open question. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 16:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25242 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25132 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:20:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA05070; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:29:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806242329.JAA05070@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: from Thomas Valentino Crimi at "Jun 24, 98 05:53:27 pm" To: tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Valentino Crimi) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:29:13 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Valentino Crimi wrote: > Heh, I can't even install netbsd via monitor as I have an E2 card, so > at the time where I didn't have another machine nearby to act as > terminal I installed AlphaLinux just to get it active, which I am now > regretting ;) There seem to be a few people who have opted for Linux/Alpha because it supported their hardware. Hopefully we can address this. > What is the issue with the E2&3 cards, AlphaLinux has some (albiet > funky) amount of support meaning we could do the same. I'm actually > tempted to give it an attempt as uninitatied as I am with doing kernel > drivers, nevermind never having used NetBSD. Has anyone looked into > this on either the Free- or Net BSD side? Can FreeBSD convince Digital > to get the full specs on these TGA cards? They are VERY nice cards and > would make would X server proud. I think it would be best for us to work with the XFree86 folks since they are the ones with the video card expertise. We can't really hassle DEC for things until FreeBSD/Alpha is self supporting. They've already committed hardware to the port and so far they haven't seen much (anything?) in return. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 16:33:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27032 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26950 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA05115; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:41:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806242341.JAA05115@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: <21930.898728267@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 24, 98 03:44:27 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:41:04 +1000 (EST) Cc: mrbill@frenzy.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Nope. CGD sent me a really nice detailed message (which I have yet to > reply to - oops!) detailing why XFree86 servers weren't proving to be > very portable to the Alpha hardware platform without lots and lots of > compat hacks which, apparently, the Linux folks have done. Whether we > or NetBSD will ever manage this (without gagging) is an open question. I think Doug is planning on supporting inb/outb in FreeBSD/Alpha in the same way that Linux/Alpha does, by hacking the bus info into the top bits of the port address. I can understand why they did this (they get working X servers for free) and I can understand why NetBSD doesn't want to do this (it's a hack). I think the opportunity to get working X servers for those starved Alpha owners is worth the hack. (I know I'm going to get flamed, but there are times when a pragmatic approach is required) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Jun 24 16:43:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28685 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28599 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22507; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: John Birrell cc: mrbill@frenzy.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:41:04 +1000." <199806242341.JAA05115@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:42:46 -0700 Message-ID: <22504.898731766@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > do this (it's a hack). I think the opportunity to get working X servers > for those starved Alpha owners is worth the hack. (I know I'm going > to get flamed, but there are times when a pragmatic approach is required) I don't disagree at all. Not being able to have a working X server is what drives a lot of existing owners into the arms of Linux ("We like NetBSD, it's really cool, honest, but we just can't live without our X servers" - I've heard that more than once). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Jun 25 01:48:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23096 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (root@alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23073 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (gjp@localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01214; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:48:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Thomas Valentino Crimi cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:53:27 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:48:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1210.898764506@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas Valentino Crimi wrote in message ID : > What is the issue with the E2&3 cards, AlphaLinux has some (albiet > funky) amount of support meaning we could do the same. I'm actually > tempted to give it an attempt as uninitatied as I am with doing kernel > drivers, nevermind never having used NetBSD. Has anyone looked into > this on either the Free- or Net BSD side? Can FreeBSD convince Digital > to get the full specs on these TGA cards? They are VERY nice cards and > would make would X server proud. The TGA cards are the only(?) cards supported by NetBSD/Alpha for an X server, so specs are available. Infact, I believe, since they are bitmap cards and do not have a character blit engine (unlike VGA cards) you have to have some intelligence in the kernel even to use them as a text console... At USENIX a friend and myself talked to the NetBSD ppl about the X server problems and they are well aware of it. The main problem is exporting bus_space functionality to userland (or some sort of kernel support for userland processes accessing hardware directly). Its also a lot of work, and may take a while to happen... Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Jun 25 13:48:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24002 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu (PO9.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23948 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id QAA29894 for freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lister.net.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lister.net.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.lister.net.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.lister.net.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4pYfS3S00UM21489I0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:48:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) video support In-Reply-To: <1210.898764506@gjp.erols.com> References: <1210.898764506@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Excerpts from mail: 25-Jun-98 Re: NetBSD (and FreeBSD) vi.. by "Gary Palmer"@FreeBSD.OR >The TGA cards are the only(?) cards supported by NetBSD/Alpha for an >X server, so specs are available. Infact, I believe, since they are >bitmap cards and do not have a character blit engine (unlike VGA cards) >you have to have some intelligence in the kernel even to use them as >a text console... My TGA-E2 card actually crashes on probe. Had to take it out to install netbsd (going to recompile the kernel without tga0 so I don't have to leave it out of the box), so there is definitely some work needed. :) I'm still downloading all I need (bless my 14.4 modem), hoping to bootstrap tonight. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message