From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Oct 4 03:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14827 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 03:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14774 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 03:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA17203; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 03:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Mike Smith cc: Doug Rabson , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multia bootstrap In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Oct 1998 23:32:55 PDT." <199810040632.XAA02170@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:26:12 -0700 Message-ID: <17199.907496772@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm still not *on* the Alpha mailing list. I sent off my request, and > a followup mail to jmb about it, but I'm still not connected. *sulk* OK, you are now. I tacked you in there by hand. :) > I'm using the serial console; the kernel is just GENERIC with syscons > removed (this might not even be necessary). You want to make sure that > both of the console variables are set to 'serial'. If you're not > winning with GENERIC, try > http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/alpha/kernel.MULTIA Speaking of serial consoles, I think we should probably make Monday "console switch" day since it's time to get one back on beast again so that we can resolve the panic in the vn driver (or wherever it is). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 06:31:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05281 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacific.net (pacific.pacific.net [199.4.80.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05276 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:31:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ufkartfm@pacific.net) Received: from pacific.net (slime-lake.pacific.net [209.209.2.250]) by pacific.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02711 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361867C4.BABCF9E1@pacific.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:31:32 +0000 From: curtis Organization: Flying Snail Ranch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/alpha/kernel.MULTIA i'm not having much luck in obtaining the above file. on each try i get exactly 16384 bytes, go into a 'stall', and eventually time out the download. any chance of making all alpha related 'stuff' available via ftp? tia, -- curtis - ufkartfm@pacific.net - site administrator for Nobody Nobody wants to mount my root for me - FreeBSD panic message I want Nobody to Control my Life! How about You? http://www.netvideo.com/nobody To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 08:04:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19839 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19834 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13167; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: curtis cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:31:32 -0000." <361867C4.BABCF9E1@pacific.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:03:53 -0700 Message-ID: <13163.907599833@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As previously announced: ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/alpha/ Contains a full 3.0 snapshot for the alpha (which you must use NetBSD's installation floppy to currently install - see README.TXT). - Jordan > > http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/alpha/kernel.MULTIA > > i'm not having much luck in obtaining the above file. on each try > i get exactly 16384 bytes, go into a 'stall', and eventually time > out the download. > > any chance of making all alpha related 'stuff' available via ftp? > > tia, > -- > curtis - ufkartfm@pacific.net - site administrator for Nobody > Nobody wants to mount my root for me - FreeBSD panic message > I want Nobody to Control my Life! How about You? > http://www.netvideo.com/nobody > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 08:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25339 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacific.net (pacific.pacific.net [199.4.80.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25334 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ufkartfm@pacific.net) Received: from pacific.net (slime-lake.pacific.net [209.209.2.250]) by pacific.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23571; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36188583.48CF4A7C@pacific.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:38:27 +0000 From: curtis Organization: Flying Snail Ranch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap References: <13163.907599833@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thanks jordan, (smile) been there, done it, but my question was directed at the "kernel.MULTIA" file listed on msmith's page & the possibility of putting the "GENERIC"/related development kernels on the ftp site, as well. sorry for any misunderstanding, curtis Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > As previously announced: > > ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/alpha/ > > Contains a full 3.0 snapshot for the alpha (which you must use > NetBSD's installation floppy to currently install - see README.TXT). > > - Jordan > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/~msmith/alpha/kernel.MULTIA > > > > i'm not having much luck in obtaining the above file. on each try > > i get exactly 16384 bytes, go into a 'stall', and eventually time > > out the download. > > > > any chance of making all alpha related 'stuff' available via ftp? > > > > tia, > > -- > > curtis - ufkartfm@pacific.net - site administrator for Nobody > > Nobody wants to mount my root for me - FreeBSD panic message > > I want Nobody to Control my Life! How about You? > > http://www.netvideo.com/nobody > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message -- curtis - ufkartfm@pacific.net - site administrator for Nobody I want Nobody to Control my Life! How about You? http://www.netvideo.com/nobody To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 08:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25422 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25413 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13327; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:39:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: curtis cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:38:27 -0000." <36188583.48CF4A7C@pacific.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:39:20 -0700 Message-ID: <13324.907601960@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > (smile) been there, done it, but my question was directed > at the "kernel.MULTIA" file listed on msmith's page & the > possibility of putting the "GENERIC"/related development > kernels on the ftp site, as well. Ah, Multia, sorry. I don't know the current status of the Multia. I'll let Mike respond to that. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 10:26:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16720 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16707 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@internationalmoneynews.com) From: info@internationalmoneynews.com Received: from falcon-west.bestnet.org ([205.211.8.60]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7/SFU-4.0H) with SMTP id KAA29610 for alpha@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: International Monetary Fund and World Bank Statistics Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Free all professionals' IMF and World Bank economic currency trends and industry stability reports. Educated assessments and reporting is provided in 5 languages. Our international Due Diligence is dedicated to supplementing your superior analytical skills in all linguistic backgrounds. Our reader suggestion provision for professional research needs and ideas provides a unique oppurtunity to get the information you need. Our subjects include foreign and domestic business awareness "GROWING TO THE NEXT LEVEL" of Global Dominance. For a preview of our service, please visit http://www.internationalmoneynews.com If you are not interested in viewing our free service, thank-you for your kind indulgence! Please send a blank reply to this email and we will immediately remove you from our database. Sincerely, International Money News To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 5 11:15:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25403 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25389 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@internationalmoneynews.com) From: info@internationalmoneynews.com Received: from falcon-west.bestnet.org ([205.211.8.60]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7/SFU-4.0H) with SMTP id LAA29995; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Free all professionals' IMF and World Bank economic currency trends and industry stability reports. Educated assessments and reporting is provided in 5 languages. Our international Due Diligence is dedicated to supplementing your superior analytical skills in all linguistic backgrounds. Our reader suggestion provision for professional research needs and ideas provides a unique oppurtunity to get the information you need. Our subjects include foreign and domestic business awareness "GROWING TO THE NEXT LEVEL" of Global Dominance. For a preview of our service, please visit http://www.internationalmoneynews.com If you are not interested in viewing our free service, thank-you for your kind indulgence! Please send a blank reply to this email and we will immediately remove you from our database. Sincerely, International Money News To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 11:22:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15953 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15893 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01485; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:26:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810071826.LAA01485@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: curtis cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:38:27 -0000." <36188583.48CF4A7C@pacific.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:26:56 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > thanks jordan, > > (smile) been there, done it, but my question was directed > at the "kernel.MULTIA" file listed on msmith's page & the > possibility of putting the "GENERIC"/related development > kernels on the ftp site, as well. Did you manage to get a copy of this file eventually? Should I mail it in your direction or similar? Other people have fetched it OK, so I know it's not a problem this end. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 11:28:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17019 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:28:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16903; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (gjp@localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15167; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:28:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) To: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Bootloader link problem Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:28:00 -0400 Message-ID: <15163.907784880@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Mike, Just got this trying to compile from a fresh cvsup on my Alpha: ld -o boot2.sym -M -e start -N -Ttext 2000c000 start.o setdef0.o main.o conf.o boot.o commands.o console.o devopen.o interp.o interp_backslash.o interp_parse.o load_aout.o load_elf.o ls.o misc.o module.o panic.o setdef1.o vers.o -lstand /usr/src/sys/boot/alpha/boot2/../libalpha/libalpha.a -lstand >/usr/src/sys/boot/alpha/boot2/boot2.list /usr/lib/libstand.a(strcasecmp.o): In function `strcasecmp': strcasecmp.c(.text+0x28): undefined reference to `_CurrentRuneLocale' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x54): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x58): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x94): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x98): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x104): undefined reference to `___tolower' /usr/lib/libstand.a(strcasecmp.o)(.text+0x108):strcasecmp.c: more undefined references to `___tolower' follow /usr/lib/libstand.a(strcasecmp.o): In function `strcasecmp': strcasecmp.c(.text+0x120): undefined reference to `_CurrentRuneLocale' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x148): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x14c): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x160): undefined reference to `_CurrentRuneLocale' /usr/lib/libstand.a(strcasecmp.o): In function `strncasecmp': strcasecmp.c(.text+0x1c4): undefined reference to `_CurrentRuneLocale' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x1f4): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x1f8): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x234): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x238): undefined reference to `___tolower' strcasecmp.c(.text+0x280): undefined reference to `___tolower' /usr/lib/libstand.a(strcasecmp.o)(.text+0x284):strcasecmp.c: more undefined references to `___tolower' follow *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. I'm guessing this is related to the recent ctype changes in the bootloader/libstand area. Doing a fresh build of the libstand library and the bootloader hasn't helped. Thanks, Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 11:55:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23002 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22959; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:55:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01713; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:00:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810071900.MAA01713@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Gary Palmer" cc: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootloader link problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:28:00 EDT." <15163.907784880@gjp.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:00:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Hi Mike, > > Just got this trying to compile from a fresh cvsup on my Alpha: Yeah, I mucked libstand up by leaving out the strcasecmp source file, so it sucks in the one from libc, which in turn uses . I committed the new file this morning; it might not have made it into your cvsup. Check for strcasecmp.c in src/lib/libstand. I'm just about ready to blow off the incorporation of string functions from libc and just duplicate them all. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 13:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09531 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pacific.net (pacific.pacific.net [199.4.80.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09484 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ufkartfm@pacific.net) Received: from pacific.net (slime-lake.pacific.net [209.209.2.250]) by pacific.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05803; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361B683E.6C245E2@pacific.net> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:10:22 +0000 From: curtis Organization: Flying Snail Ranch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hard time obtaining multia bootstrap References: <199810071826.LAA01485@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi mike, i just tried it a few moments ago and it stalled again at 16384 bytes and (fwiw) this was on a clean cdrom installed version of i386 2.2.6, using the packaged netscape 4.04. each time, before the attempt, i cleared memory and disk cache and right clicked the file for a save. previous to this, i tried it on a clean ftp install of 2.2.7, using netscape 4.05 and 4.06. (chuckle) i lost 2.2.7 the other night during a 3.0-beta install (my error). the reason i brought it up was due to the fact i had no problems in getting the stuff off doug's freefall site at www.freebsd.org/~dfr/ using the same method. i know you folks are busy and jordan did let me know there was some work being done to establish a ftp alpha repository. yes, please send me a copy. best2u and thank you, curtis Mike Smith wrote: > > > thanks jordan, > > > > (smile) been there, done it, but my question was directed > > at the "kernel.MULTIA" file listed on msmith's page & the > > possibility of putting the "GENERIC"/related development > > kernels on the ftp site, as well. > > Did you manage to get a copy of this file eventually? Should I mail it > in your direction or similar? Other people have fetched it OK, so I > know it's not a problem this end. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com -- curtis - ufkartfm@pacific.net - site administrator for Nobody I want Nobody to control my life! How about you? http://www.netvideo.com/nobody To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 14:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24702 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24696 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:17:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (gjp@localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17427; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:17:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) To: Mike Smith cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Bootloader link problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:00:23 PDT." <199810071900.MAA01713@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:17:04 -0400 Message-ID: <17423.907795024@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote in message ID <199810071900.MAA01713@dingo.cdrom.com>: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Just got this trying to compile from a fresh cvsup on my Alpha: > > Yeah, I mucked libstand up by leaving out the strcasecmp source file, > so it sucks in the one from libc, which in turn uses . I > committed the new file this morning; it might not have made it into > your cvsup. Check for strcasecmp.c in src/lib/libstand. Ah. I forgot to do a cvs update in libstand. Sorry :) > I'm just about ready to blow off the incorporation of string functions > from libc and just duplicate them all. Probably not a bad idea. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 14:33:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27277 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from remler.nas.nasa.gov (remler.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27272 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by remler.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA07477 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:32:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: remler.nas.nasa.gov: mjacob owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 20.What is the Cyclades serial network for? A ``feature'' of DEC's AlphaBios is that a headless node will not automatically boot without a carriage return over the serial port. The Cyclades network was the best short-term solution to this problem, and also offered a diagnostic and control network which is independent of the ethernet. The serial network consists of Cyclades Cyclom 32-YeP multiport serial PCI cards and 20ft serial cables. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 15:42:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11910 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11901 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03122; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810072247.PAA03122@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:32:54 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:47:13 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 20.What is the Cyclades serial network for? > > A ``feature'' of DEC's AlphaBios is that a headless node will not > automatically boot without a carriage return over the serial port. The > Cyclades network was the best short-term solution to this > problem, and also offered a diagnostic and control network which is > independent of the ethernet. The serial network consists of Cyclades > Cyclom 32-YeP multiport serial PCI cards and 20ft > serial cables. Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 15:48:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12717 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from remler.nas.nasa.gov (remler.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12684 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by remler.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07818; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:47:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: remler.nas.nasa.gov: mjacob owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:47:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov To: Mike Smith cc: mjacob@sally.nas.nasa.gov, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: <199810072247.PAA03122@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear for newer board level alpha products. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 15:52:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13942 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:52:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13935 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03205; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810072257.PAA03205@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov cc: Mike Smith , mjacob@sally.nas.nasa.gov, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:47:12 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:57:25 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > for newer board level alpha products. Ick. Are there any AlphaBIOS source licencees anywhere? I'm specifically thinking about whether it'd be feasible to commission some work on it to a) produce a documented interface subset for all us suckers to use, and/or b) make it more server-friendly. Just idle speculation right now I guess. We need another mole inside Microsoft I guess. Hmm. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 16:18:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19661 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schizo.com (schizo.com [216.27.37.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19615; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:18:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bits@oldwarez.com) Received: from oldwarez.com (bits@oldwarez.com [216.27.37.18]) by schizo.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA11098; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:17:54 -0400 (EDT) From: BitS X-Sender: bits@schizo.com To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD load handling and responsivness Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-514894932-907802274=:10502" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-514894932-907802274=:10502 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jordan, I've been running FreeBSD for about a year and a half now, and recently ran into some problems with ram... after realizing it was probably the ram causing these problems, I swapped it out and began the wait to see if the problems would persist... after a short wait decided I need to put the machine through its paces and see if I could bring the problem to the surface... Well, I couldn't get it to show itself, but.. I was astonished to see that the box lived through it. So... thanks to you and the rest of the fbsd team for contributing to a great OS. Through all of the load I put on the machine, it would still switch consoles without hesitation, and a control-c killed the parent process immediatly, returning the bots to a normal usable state. Below is my load average done immediatly following my massive forking... bits@chaos:~>uptime 6:51PM up 1:12, 5 users, load averages: 917.77, 875.69, 572.58 bits@chaos:~> That was after about 10 mins of running the program, the source of which is attached. For some extra info, heres my uname -a: bits@chaos:~>uname -a FreeBSD chaos.schizo.com 3.0-BETA FreeBSD 3.0-BETA #0: Mon Oct 5 11:42:19 EDT 1998 bits@chaos.schizo.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/ChaosKern i386 Awesome work on the OS, keep up the good work... PLEASE! :) David -------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Wimsey Network Engineer dwimsey@rtci.com Research Triangle Consultants, Inc 919-380-9771x3101 http://www.rtci.com http://www.schizo.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- He who laughs last, is slow. --0-514894932-907802274=:10502 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="forkdeath.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="forkdeath.c" I2luY2x1ZGUgPHN0ZGlvLmg+DQojaW5jbHVkZSA8c3lzL3R5cGVzLmg+DQoj aW5jbHVkZSA8dW5pc3RkLmg+DQoNCnZvaWQgbWFpbih2b2lkKQ0Kew0KZmxv YXQgeHg9MDsNCmZsb2F0IHp6PTA7DQpGSUxFICpmcDsNCiB3aGlsZSgxKQ0K ew0KCWZvcmsoKTsNCglwcmludGYoICJmb3JrZWQiICk7DQoJZnByaW50Zigg c3RkZXJyLCAiZm9ya2VkIiApOw0KCXh4Kys7IHp6Kys7DQoJeHg9enoqenov eHgrMTsNCgl4eD16eioyOw0KCWZwPWZvcGVuKCAiL3Vzci9ob21lL2JpdHMv ZGVhdGgiLCAiciIpOwkJDQoJZmNsb3NlKCBmcCApOw0KfQkNCg0KfQ0K --0-514894932-907802274=:10502-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 17:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29948 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from remler.nas.nasa.gov (remler.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29925 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:11:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by remler.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA08114; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:04:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: remler.nas.nasa.gov: mjacob owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov To: Mike Smith cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: <199810072257.PAA03205@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > > > > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > > for newer board level alpha products. > > Ick. Are there any AlphaBIOS source licencees anywhere? Don't know. > I'm > specifically thinking about whether it'd be feasible to commission some > work on it to a) produce a documented interface subset for all us > suckers to use, and/or b) make it more server-friendly. I just don't know. Originally I really hated MILO because once you booted it you were stuck with it- but I'm beginning to think that this, after all, might be the right approach with something that has to start from SRM, ARC or AlphaBIOS. > Just idle speculation right now I guess. We need another mole inside > Microsoft I guess. "A Spy in the House of Love" would be a more interesting metaphor. On the other hand if we think of 'mole' we think of the austere verse of Le Carre- when in fact the slapstick spy information of "Our Man in Havana" is more likely what we'd get if we truly had a mole in Microsoft. Sorry- I'm still on France time- it's just after 5pm in Mountain View but my body is saying that it's 02h00 in France......(off home to bed...) -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 18:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18249 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from calis.BlackSun.org (slip-ppp-4-198.escape.com [205.160.46.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18238 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from don@calis.BlackSun.org) Received: from localhost (don@localhost) by calis.BlackSun.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01713; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:52:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from don@calis.BlackSun.org) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Don To: Matthew Jacob cc: Mike Smith , mjacob@sally.nas.nasa.gov, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > for newer board level alpha products. Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? -don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 20:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03822 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles134.castles.com [208.214.165.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03797 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00404; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810080331.UAA00404@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Don cc: Matthew Jacob , Mike Smith , mjacob@sally.nas.nasa.gov, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:52:32 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:31:03 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > > for newer board level alpha products. > > Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to > use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really > want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? The problem is that the SRM console isn't available for many systems. If we want to boot on them, we have to support ARC. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 21:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12207 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spawn.nectar.com (spawn.nectar.com [204.27.67.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12200 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Received: from localhost.nectar.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=spawn.nectar.com) by spawn.nectar.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zR7WX-0002TE-00; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:17:57 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: References: Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 To: Don cc: Matthew Jacob , Mike Smith , mjacob@sally.nas.nasa.gov, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:17:57 -0500 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Nooo!!!! AHHHHHH! Does ARC run on a serial console, by the way? Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 8 October 1998 at 9:52, Don wrote: > > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > > for newer board level alpha products. > > Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to > use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really > want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? > > -don -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNhw89TeRhT8JRySpAQEYggQAhkrMxyVK6lmyf1/UTBQ/7tu7P4SXWT9G ObUipbCQ2G2159VfLUbxcE+58pBXGolpaYIuK8NrH8jrF//z/GXbHT+K5soVZQZ0 xtOHh2laikP/Pt1MrA8KVKxXT4luToZf814Vg6CeXVmBtor4gmTX4SwPj++M+viH XdkKA9dbbik= =/ZC4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 7 21:53:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17684 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:53:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA17667 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:53:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zR84Z-0004WJ-00; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:53:07 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA11026; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810080452.WAA11026@harmony.village.org> To: Don Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:52:32 EDT." References: Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:52:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message Don writes: : Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to : use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really : want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? Like/dislike has nothing to do with it. The problem is that there are many cheaper machines that simply do not have SRM on them at all. A prudent course would be to support both. Dec has released enough information to write a boot loader for the ARC/Alpha console (and microsoft just released enough information to write one for ARC/Mips, now that it is dead). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 05:24:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21548 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 05:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21540 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 05:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29453; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23182; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:24:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:24:12 -0400 (EDT) To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13852.43946.527390.358341@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jacques Vidrine writes: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Nooo!!!! AHHHHHH! > > Does ARC run on a serial console, by the way? It at least attempts to talk to it if the machine doesn't have a video card... We recently got some headless DPW500a's. When switching them over to SRM, I found that the alphabios would spew unintelligable garbage out the 0th serial port when I connected it to a kermit session running in vt100 mode at 9600,8,n,1. I gave up this approach & temporarily put a powerstorm into them just to switch consoles. Perhaps if I had been using a different terminal type... Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 08:47:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20643 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.sequent.com (gateway.sequent.com [138.95.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20594 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seifert@sequent.com) Received: from eng4.sequent.com (eng4.sequent.com [138.95.7.64]) by gateway.sequent.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04866 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (seifert@localhost) by eng4.sequent.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA12163 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810081546.IAA12163@eng4.sequent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: eng4.sequent.com: seifert@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SRM/ARC/AlphaBIOS/MILO Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 08:46:58 PDT From: David Seifert Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Why we don't want to use the ARC console, hmm? > > > > Yes- I agree- except that it's possible that SRM will disappear > > for newer board level alpha products. Perhaps a lobbying effort is in order? We need to convince Compaq to provide SRM. I don't know what the sales of small machines running DU, VMS, *BSD and Linux would be, but adding in availability of low cost machines for "tire kicking" before commiting to a large purchase, and the goodwill generated should make it worth their while. I for one don't plan on buying any Alphas that don't have SRM. > Ick. Are there any AlphaBIOS source licencees anywhere? I haven't been able to get SRM sources even though I'm working on the kernel-console interface for Bravo. (Or does ARC/Alphabios come from Micros**t?) > I'm > specifically thinking about whether it'd be feasible to commission some > work on it to a) produce a documented interface subset for all us > suckers to use, and/or b) make it more server-friendly. The Alpha AXP Architecture Reference Manual has some info. Not sure how much ARC/AlphaBIOS info is in there, I skip over anything that is specific to NT or VMS. ISBN 1-55558-202-8 (3rd edition) 1-55558-145-5 (2nd edition) The MILO approach is more appealing than using ARC/AlphaBIOS, assuming its problems can be fixed. (e.g. add a reset command) Another thing to keep in mind is that ARC/AlphaBIOS only machines will have the NT version of PALcode. Linux has their own PALcode, based on the DU version. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 09:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25703 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:14:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25693 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09578 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:14:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199810081614.LAA09578@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Physical/bus addressing questions.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:14:40 -0500 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have come across a couple of things while trying to port a driver to the alpha, and was wondering if someone has any insight. First of all.. Is there any way to determine the address length at preproccessor time? Also, on the alpha--what is the proper way to deal with the bus addresses? In particular, are the phsical addresses mapped into 32 bits somehow for the pci bus? I have some 64 bit pci cards and was wondering what would be the best way to handle this. Thanks, Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 12:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25488 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from remler.nas.nasa.gov (remler.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25478 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by remler.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA10179; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: remler.nas.nasa.gov: mjacob owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Don , Matthew Jacob , Mike Smith , Matthew Jacob , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does ARC run on a serial console, by the way? I don't know. I'd like to point out that the original BIOS specification allowed for serial consoles. I doubt whether any have been implemented with that feature since 1983. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 13:32:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13529 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13523 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00452; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810082037.NAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Seifert cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SRM/ARC/AlphaBIOS/MILO In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:46:58 PDT." <199810081546.IAA12163@eng4.sequent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:37:48 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The MILO approach is more appealing than using ARC/AlphaBIOS, > assuming its problems can be fixed. (e.g. add a reset command) Warner's references last night actually include a very comprehensive interface definition for ARC. We can probably work with this. > Another thing to keep in mind is that ARC/AlphaBIOS only machines > will have the NT version of PALcode. Linux has their own PALcode, > based on the DU version. We appear to have our own too. Shouldn't be a real problem, I hope. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 13:39:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14511 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14484 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) id OAA22093; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:31:41 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199810082031.OAA22093@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Chris Csanady cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Physical/bus addressing questions.. Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.alpha In-Reply-To: <199810081614.LAA09578@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-BETA (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199810081614.LAA09578@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> you wrote: > First of all.. Is there any way to determine the address length at > preproccessor time? Why is this necessary? > Also, on the alpha--what is the proper way to deal with the bus > addresses? Use bus space (machine/include/bus.h). > In particular, are the phsical addresses mapped into 32 > bits somehow for the pci bus? You don't need to concern yourself with this if you use bus.h. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 13:46:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15555 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15526 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00528; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810082049.NAA00528@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov cc: Jacques Vidrine , Don , Matthew Jacob , Mike Smith , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:07:07 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:49:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Does ARC run on a serial console, by the way? > > I don't know. I'd like to point out that the original BIOS specification > allowed for serial consoles. I doubt whether any have been implemented > with that feature since 1983. The quad Xeon Intel box we have here has serial BIOS support. It uses ANSI colour sequences and works just fine in an xterm, even to the point that you can run the Adaptec BIOS setup over it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 13:59:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18423 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from remler.nas.nasa.gov (remler.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18398 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:59:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by remler.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA10597; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:58:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: remler.nas.nasa.gov: mjacob owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@nas.nasa.gov To: Mike Smith cc: Matthew Jacob , Jacques Vidrine , Don , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: <199810082049.NAA00528@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The quad Xeon Intel box we have here has serial BIOS support. It uses > ANSI colour sequences and works just fine in an xterm, even to the > point that you can run the Adaptec BIOS setup over it. Cute! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 16:34:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19939 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu [129.186.185.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19887 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01592 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:34:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199810082334.SAA01592@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cvsup package? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:34:32 -0500 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone actually managed to compile cvsup on the alpha? When it goes to compile the modula stuff, it gets really unhappy :( Oh well.. at least tcsh built. :) Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 17:14:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26206 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26161 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zRQCH-00055J-00; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:14:17 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA07656; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810090013.SAA07656@harmony.village.org> To: David Seifert Subject: Re: SRM/ARC/AlphaBIOS/MILO Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:46:58 PDT." <199810081546.IAA12163@eng4.sequent.com> References: <199810081546.IAA12163@eng4.sequent.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:13:52 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199810081546.IAA12163@eng4.sequent.com> David Seifert writes: : The Alpha AXP Architecture Reference Manual has some info. : Not sure how much ARC/AlphaBIOS info is in there, I skip over : anything that is specific to NT or VMS. There is something called the ADK which you can get. Take a look at http://www.windows.digital.com/support/drivers/drivers.asp and grab the ARC Application Development Kit v 1.3. Also check out ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Linux-Alpha/linload Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 8 17:16:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26419 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26365 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zRQDm-00055O-00; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:15:50 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA07670 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:15:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810090015.SAA07670@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: SRM/ARC/AlphaBIOS/MILO To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:37:48 PDT." <199810082037.NAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199810082037.NAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:15:26 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199810082037.NAA00452@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : Warner's references last night actually include a very comprehensive : interface definition for ARC. We can probably work with this. I just posted the pointer that I sent to Mike last night. The ADK seems *VERY* complete. Lots of docs on how to do all kinds of, ummm, interesting things from the ARC BIOS as well as some libraries and such. I personally would love to have an ARC loader that worked on both MIPS and Alpha machines :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 03:40:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07141 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07111 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04558; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:39:37 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:39:37 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Warner Losh cc: Don , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1 In-Reply-To: <199810080452.WAA11026@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Don writes: > : Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to > : use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really > : want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? > > Like/dislike has nothing to do with it. The problem is that there are > many cheaper machines that simply do not have SRM on them at all. A > prudent course would be to support both. Dec has released enough > information to write a boot loader for the ARC/Alpha console (and > microsoft just released enough information to write one for ARC/Mips, > now that it is dead). I have plenty of documentation for the thing and I believe that porting our new bootstrap to ARC would be fairly straightforward. The main sticking point is the need for OSF compatible PALcode for each supported platform. There is some code available in MILO which could be made to work (with some effort). Finding time to work on this is also a problem... -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 09:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00168 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:26:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29937 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02101; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810091625.JAA02101@austin.polstra.com> To: ccsanady@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu Subject: Re: cvsup package? In-Reply-To: <199810082334.SAA01592@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> References: <199810082334.SAA01592@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:25:45 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199810082334.SAA01592@friley-185-114.res.iastate.edu>, Chris Csanady wrote: > Has anyone actually managed to compile cvsup on the alpha? When > it goes to compile the modula stuff, it gets really unhappy :( John Birrell worked on an alpha port of Modula-3 for a while, but didn't get it working fully. Once the dust settles from the 3.0 release, I'll be happy to help him or anybody else to get it working. I don't have an alpha machine here. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 11:51:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24705 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gjp.erols.com (alex-va-n008c079.moon.jic.com [206.156.18.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24695 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:51:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) Received: from gjp.erols.com (gjp@localhost.erols.com [127.0.0.1]) by gjp.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24490 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:51:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gjp@gjp.erols.com) To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: kernel builds Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:51:38 -0400 Message-ID: <24486.907959098@gjp.erols.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In the middle of a make release (building the GENERIC kernel), I got the following: cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -U__NetBSD__ -mno-fp-regs -Wa,-mev56 ../../kern/kern_environment.c ../../kern/kern_environment.c: In function `kernenv_init': ../../kern/kern_environment.c:53: structure has no member named `bi_envp' ../../kern/kern_environment.c:54: structure has no member named `bi_envp' Is this another include file muckup? I haven't seen it mentioned on current, so I imagine its an alpha-specific thing. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 12:19:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28647 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28630 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tls@panix.com) Received: from panix7.panix.com (root@panix7.nyc.access.net [166.84.0.232]) by mail2.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with ESMTP id PAA24670 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix7.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id PAA06860 for alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:18:39 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1end Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com References: <199810080452.WAA11026@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810080452.WAA11026@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 10:52:45PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 10:52:45PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Don writes: > : Do people actually like arc console? the srm console is so much easier to > : use and so much more console like in the first place. Does anyone really > : want to go the direction of menus and such by using a microsoft bios? > > Like/dislike has nothing to do with it. The problem is that there are > many cheaper machines that simply do not have SRM on them at all. A > prudent course would be to support both. Dec has released enough > information to write a boot loader for the ARC/Alpha console (and > microsoft just released enough information to write one for ARC/Mips, > now that it is dead). Being able to write a boot loader is *not* the issue. The fact that the ARC or AlphaBIos console doesn't include PALcode that's UNIX-friendly is the issue. The SRM console image includes VMS and OSF/1 PALcode; NetBSd uses the OSF/1 PALcode. The ARC console includes Windows NT PALcode; Linux hacks around this by including its own PALcode in MILO. This is pretty evil, since the PALcode is very system-specific and it's why there's a different MILO for every damned Alpha system and board they run on. Originally, they got their PALcode from an old version of the OSF/1 PALcode source which was distributed with the EBSDK, the "Evaluation Board Software Development Kit". Since then I'm pretty sure they've separately maintained it, and even when they first picked it up the source on that CD was *not* quite what DEC was including in SRM for the boards that PALcode was for; it was much older and reputedly full of bugs. This is pretty much equivalent to replacing the system BIOS in order to boot and run on an x86 machine, except that it's much worse since the PALcode provides pseudo-instructions which are used while the kernel's up and running. The EBSDK does include a PALcode development guide or some such. >From a cursory examination of the EBSDK license, it's also not entirely clear to me that redistributing the PALcode the way MILO does is 100% kosher, but hey, IANAL. -- Thor Lancelot Simon tls@rek.tjls.com "And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 14:31:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24950 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24932 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:31:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zRk7p-0005nI-00; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:31:01 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA02786; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810092130.PAA02786@harmony.village.org> To: tls@rek.tjls.com Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1end Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:18:39 EDT." <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> References: <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> <199810080452.WAA11026@harmony.village.org> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:30:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> Thor Lancelot Simon writes: : Being able to write a boot loader is *not* the issue. *YES* it is an issue. That's what we are talking about at the time. If you can't load a kernel into memory, then you can't boot anything. The PALcode issue is another issue which will need to be addresses as well. : This is pretty much equivalent to replacing the system BIOS in order to : boot and run on an x86 machine, except that it's much worse since the PALcode : provides pseudo-instructions which are used while the kernel's up and : running. There are two parts here. One is that the BIOS loads files from the disk differently, and we need to be able to deal with that. The PAL code is an orthognal issue that also needs to be dealt with. We need to load it (after getting from somewhere) and also recode our kernel to use that PALcode rather tan the OSF/1 PAL code that we use when the SRM console is used. : From a cursory examination of the EBSDK license, it's also not entirely : clear to me that redistributing the PALcode the way MILO does is 100% : kosher, but hey, IANAL. The files in milo/linload appear to be redistributable, at least according to the copyrights that are in them. I assume that since folks that wrote linload and milo work for Digital, that what they distribute is kosher. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 14:34:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25375 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25370 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11134; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011112; Fri Oct 9 14:34:23 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA27092; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:34:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810092134.OAA27092@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1end To: tls@rek.tjls.com Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:34:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> from "Thor Lancelot Simon" at Oct 9, 98 03:18:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Being able to write a boot loader is *not* the issue. > > The fact that the ARC or AlphaBIos console doesn't include PALcode that's > UNIX-friendly is the issue. The SRM console image includes VMS and OSF/1 > PALcode; NetBSd uses the OSF/1 PALcode. The ARC console includes Windows NT > PALcode; Linux hacks around this by including its own PALcode in MILO. Isn't this more of a case of us running a UNIX that isn't ARC PALcode friendly? I realize that this would require some substantial code changes to things like the platform specific VM code; but the payback is the ability to run on all the Alpha hardware out there. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 14:43:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27031 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26953; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:43:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08838; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:43:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Gary Palmer" cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel builds In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:51:38 EDT." <24486.907959098@gjp.erols.com> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:43:13 -0700 Message-ID: <8835.907969393@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug hasn't added support in for the module information code that Mike recently added on the x86. I suppose if Doug's too swamped, and having just purchased a new house I can sorta see how he might be, we could take a stab at adding it in. - Jordan > > In the middle of a make release (building the GENERIC kernel), I got > the following: > > cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-exter ns -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wuniniti alized -Wformat -fformat-extensions -ansi -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../. ./include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -U__NetBSD__ -mno-fp-regs -Wa,-mev56 ../../kern/kern_environment.c > ../../kern/kern_environment.c: In function `kernenv_init': > ../../kern/kern_environment.c:53: structure has no member named `bi_envp' > ../../kern/kern_environment.c:54: structure has no member named `bi_envp' > > Is this another include file muckup? I haven't seen it mentioned on > current, so I imagine its an alpha-specific thing. > > Gary > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 15:30:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07540 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07452 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tls@panix.com) Received: from panix7.panix.com (root@panix7.nyc.access.net [166.84.0.232]) by mail2.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with ESMTP id SAA21037; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix7.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id SAA16527; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981009183003.A16271@panix.com> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:30:03 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon To: Terry Lambert Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1end Reply-To: tls@rek.tjls.com References: <19981009151839.A6704@panix.com> <199810092134.OAA27092@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810092134.OAA27092@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:34:21PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:34:21PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Being able to write a boot loader is *not* the issue. > > > > The fact that the ARC or AlphaBIos console doesn't include PALcode that's > > UNIX-friendly is the issue. The SRM console image includes VMS and OSF/1 > > PALcode; NetBSd uses the OSF/1 PALcode. The ARC console includes Windows NT > > PALcode; Linux hacks around this by including its own PALcode in MILO. > > Isn't this more of a case of us running a UNIX that isn't ARC PALcode > friendly? > > I realize that this would require some substantial code changes to > things like the platform specific VM code; but the payback is the > ability to run on all the Alpha hardware out there. With a crippled VM system that couldn't use the whole 64 bits of address space, among other miscellaneous ways to lose, at least last time I checked. That was quite a while ago, however. Maybe they've stopped trying quite so hard to lose in recent implementations. Thor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 16:04:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14140 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:04:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (homeworld.cygnus.com [205.180.83.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA14043 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cgd@netbsd.org) Received: (qmail 21350 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Oct 1998 23:03:31 -0000 To: Terry Lambert Cc: tls@rek.tjls.com, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting quote from http://cnls.lanl.gov/avalon/FAQ.html#A1end References: <199810092134.OAA27092@usr01.primenet.com> From: cgd@netbsd.org (Chris G. Demetriou) Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:03:31 -0700 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:34:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <87ww695oe4.fsf@netbsd1.cygnus.com> Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > I realize that this would require some substantial code changes to > things like the platform specific VM code; but the payback is the > ability to run on all the Alpha hardware out there. All the new alpha hardware, maybe. There exist systems (now old, but some still perform pretty well) for which no ARC ever was (or really could be 8-) made. Also, there's the issue of the limitations that the NT PALcode leaves you with. e.g. 32-bit process address space. Also, since the user-land PAL ops for things like syscalls and related stuff aren't necessarily compatible (not sure), you might not even be able to run other UNIX-ish systems' binaries (even disregarding address space issues). Also, "things like" the VM code includes an awful lot more than the VM code. If you want a PC... buy a PC. If you want an Alpha, with all of its benefits, you want either OSF or VMS PALcode. cgd -- Chris Demetriou - cgd@netbsd.org - http://www.netbsd.org/People/Pages/cgd.html Disclaimer: Not speaking for NetBSD, just expressing my own opinion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 16:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18241 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.sequent.com (gateway.sequent.com [138.95.18.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18196 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seifert@sequent.com) Received: from eng4.sequent.com (eng4.sequent.com [138.95.7.64]) by gateway.sequent.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25661 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (seifert@localhost) by eng4.sequent.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA07824 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810092325.QAA07824@eng4.sequent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: eng4.sequent.com: seifert@localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PALcode Date: Fri, 09 Oct 98 16:25:44 PDT From: David Seifert Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> The fact that the ARC or AlphaBIos console doesn't include PALcode that's >> UNIX-friendly is the issue. The SRM console image includes VMS and OSF/1 >> PALcode; NetBSd uses the OSF/1 PALcode. The ARC console includes Windows NT >> PALcode; Linux hacks around this by including its own PALcode in MILO. > > Isn't this more of a case of us running a UNIX that isn't ARC PALcode > friendly? No. The PALcode customises the machine for a particular OS. That is the whole point of the PALcode. There is PALcode for Unix, PALcode for VMS, and PALcode for NT. Similar deal with the console software. SRM for VMS and Unix, ARC or AlphaBIOS for NT. ARC cannot read a BSD disklabel. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Oct 9 18:52:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14183 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14148 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07944; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810100151.SAA07944@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: David Seifert Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PALcode Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:51:08 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 09 Oct 98 16:25:44 PDT David Seifert wrote: > The PALcode customises the machine for a particular OS. > That is the whole point of the PALcode. > There is PALcode for Unix, PALcode for VMS, and PALcode for NT. > > Similar deal with the console software. > SRM for VMS and Unix, ARC or AlphaBIOS for NT. > > ARC cannot read a BSD disklabel. Right, basically, the NT PALcode is just totally alien, as far as UNIX is concerned: - Interrupt semantics are different. - VM semantics are different (makes the Alpha a lot like a combination of MIPS and x86... "funny that!" ... including limitation to 32-bit address space, user and KSEGs, 2-level page table traversal a'la x86, etc.) - All the traps are different. - The process (i.e. HWPCB) structures are different. What it comes down to is this: "An Alpha with NT PALcode is a different processor architecture." The instruction set may be the same, but basically everything you have to deal with at the low-level in an operating system is different. Side-note: it's somewhat amusing/scary how non-x86-centric NT actually is at the bootstrap level... For example, on the x86 and on the PowerPC, NT requires a glue layer on top of the native console software on that platform (i.e. PC BIOS or OpenFirmware) that emulates the old MIPS ARC console... I have no doubt that deep in the guts of the x86 HAL, there is code that emulates e.g. the MIPS KSEG by direct-mapping the memory in the system probably by using the large-page support in modern x86 CPUs. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Oct 10 08:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18571 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18565 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from cybcon.com (h5n198.a001.sprintisp.com [205.137.198.5]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26689 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361F7EAB.340A2E99@cybcon.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:35:07 -0700 From: William Woods Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Advice please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How mature is FreeBSD on the Alpha platform? I am interested in running it on my alpha, I am currently useing linux and would like to try FreeBSD, but have a few apps that I NEED to run. Is FreeBSD stable enough to be reliable on the Alpha yet? Please cc any responce to wwoods@cybcon.com as I am not a member of this list currently. Thanks -- ------------------------------ AOL IM - BSDMAN1 William Woods - wwoods@cybcon.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Oct 10 12:46:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22191 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles238.castles.com [208.214.165.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22031 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09881; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810101950.MAA09881@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: wwoods@cybcon.com cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advice please In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:35:07 PDT." <361F7EAB.340A2E99@cybcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:50:45 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > How mature is FreeBSD on the Alpha platform? I am interested in running > it on my alpha, I am currently useing linux and would like to try > FreeBSD, but have a few apps that I NEED to run. Is FreeBSD stable > enough to be reliable on the Alpha yet? I'd recommend staying away until the first complete snapshot is released. Installation at the moment is not for the fainthearted. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Oct 10 21:35:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13792 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:35:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from burka.rdy.com (burka.rdy.com [205.149.163.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13745 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@burka.rdy.com) Received: (from dima@localhost) by burka.rdy.com (8.8.8/RDY&DVV) id VAA08090 for alpha@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810110434.VAA08090@burka.rdy.com> Subject: adjkerntz To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:34:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome Reply-To: dima@best.net From: dima@best.net (Dima Ruban) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL45 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is it save to re-enable it for alpha? -- dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message