From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 00:28:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06868; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:28:06 GMT (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA12602; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:23:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Jason cc: "Alok K. Dhir" , danny@panda.hilink.com.au, jak@cetlink.net, peter@netplex.com.au, des@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Correct English style In-Reply-To: <001001bd6b2b$6b83afc0$023aa8c0@k6-200> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Jason wrote: > And all this has to do with FreeBSD in what way? > :) It is the "chat" of people who use FreeBSD. ;) Actually, this is a direct spin-off of something from cvs-committers and has much more to do with FreeBSD than some of the discussions you'll find in the -chat archives, which run the gamut from religion to war. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 03:38:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01536 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:38:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow20.verinet.com [199.45.181.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01516; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:38:32 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10123; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:39:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:39:25 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804191039.EAA10123@const.> To: bear@pacificnet.net, malartre@aei.ca Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > hehe > cya u are not in irc anmore & can stop tying like this^Hs!!! :) THANX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 05:32:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14816 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:32:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14804 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:32:13 GMT (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA18409; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA01568; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3539EEC6.EE5CC0A9@3skel.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:32:06 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Mark Conn CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makes you wonder... References: <199804181916.VAA14407@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980418213331.18062@jraynard.demon.co.uk> <35398553.F354E2DF@ibm.net> <199804190535.AAA23641@pentagon.io.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sometimes in life you can do a good thing and people will notice. (trite but true) Off topic... I have had some odd experiences with Dell hardware in the past. Last time it was with their on-board video hardware; said it was an ATI, but I couldn't get XFree86 to do better than 640x480. I ended up putting a Diamond Stealth in and disabling the on-board. Just a heads up and a general question that other's might have input on. (I am not on -hardware, but you may want to ping that list) Dan Christopher Mark Conn wrote: > Don Wilde writes: > > > We _are_ making a difference. InfoWorld is getting downright positive > > I'm kinda new to the free software world (I use GNU Emacs at work > and will install FreeBSD on my Dell PII when I buy it in a few weeks) > but a lot of the appeal of different OS's seems personality-driven, FreeBSD > types seem to like stability and tradition more, Linux types seem more > experimental, maybe? I think it's the combination of all of these personalities > that make the free software world so interesting, gives us so many choices. > > As has been said many times, we have to keep in mind who the real enemy is :-) > > Looking forward to having my own 'workstation' at home (will sure beat sending > mail on my current 'system', a WYSE terminal dialed in to my ISP)... -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 05:54:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16654 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16648; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804191254.FAA16648@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: test and re-apology In-Reply-To: <19980418174212.01516@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> from dannyman at "Apr 18, 98 05:42:12 pm" To: dannyman@dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: josh@quick.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dannyman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 03:35:14PM -0700, Josh Gilliam wrote: > > >> Why the heck would you spew half a dozen test messages to > > >> the mailing list just to test some local setup? > > > > > > i have no idea. > > > > You should have used the freebsd-test mailing list. > > thanks. > > actually, i have tried to subscribe to it, and got a message that > freebsd-test is closed, and that i should try subscribing to > freebsd-freebsd-test, but that seems not to exist. whoops!....my fault, now fixed. freebsd-test is open subscription, no confirmation needed. test is closed, it is a shortcut to freebsd-test jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 06:32:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20316 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:32:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20310; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:32:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804191332.GAA20310@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: -advocacy In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at "Apr 18, 98 03:56:08 pm" To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason C. Wells wrote: > Is anyone getting traffic on -advocacy? I am not. Perhaps it is to new > to have a large subscribership. (???) > > I _know_ that I did not mess up with procmail again! :) please subscribe to -advocacy. freebsd-announce:jcwells@u.washington.edu freebsd-chat:jcwells@u.washington.edu freebsd-questions:jcwells@u.washington.edu freebsd-security-notifications:jcwells@u.washington.edu jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 11:44:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15587 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:44:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15515; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:44:26 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrE-07.aei.ca [206.186.204.207]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13002; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353A45F3.732B8ECE@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:44:03 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: allen campbell CC: bear@pacificnet.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <199804191039.EAA10123@const.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org allen campbell wrote: > > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > > > hehe > > cya > > u are not in irc anmore & can stop tying like this^Hs!!! :) > THANX > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message doh :-) hehe Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 12:00:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19090 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19042 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:00:14 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03890 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804191900.MAA03890@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cheap high-speed Internet Access? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:00:10 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I am looking for a cheap high-speed connection and mbone connectivity in the San Francisco, Ca. , US area. I am thinking about getting rid of my ISDN line connection and getting ADSL . Originally, my ISP was located just a block away however he was forced to move across town so I lost my Centrex connection . Basically, a Centrex connection allows your phone line or ISDN line to be part of a phone bank. In my case, I was part of my ISP's ISDN bank and ISDN calls within his phone bank where no metered by PAC Bell -- total monthly charge from Pac Bell was $30 8) The cheapest I have been able to price an ADSL connection is $150 for 400/400 Kb/sec . I need 220 Kb/sec or more for mbone stuff. Currently, we don't have cable modem in San Francisco. Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 14:43:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19238 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19142 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:43:17 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA20612; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:43:11 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980420074308.58582@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:43:08 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: hotmail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The topic of spam from hotmail has come up here a couple of times. We all wish they didn't exist, however... They seem to have improved their handling of spam reports in recent weeks, providing responses like the following within hours (which is more than I can say of many regular ISPs). If anyone is getting pestered by hotmail spammners it might be worth noting that writing to abuse@hotmail.com does produce some result these days. If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me. -----Forwarded message from policy@hotmail.com----- To: Sue Blake Message-ID: <882565EB.0075A317.00@service2.jsnet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:24:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [rockettts@hotmail.com: farther son speeking] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII We have closed the account referenced in your mail. Hotmail offers a unique service, providing individuals who might not have access to a computer messaging service the ability to send and receive e-mail messages without charge from anywhere in the world. Unfortunately, as is the case with most public services, there will be individuals who abuse their privileges by using the service in an improper manner. Hotmail does not in any way condone or support the sending of junk mail (aka spam) messages through our system. The Hotmail TOS strictly forbids this and we terminate all accounts that we are made aware that are in violation of the TOS. We appreciate your mail alerting us to the spammer using our system. Our ANTI-SPAM policy can be viewed at http://www.hotmail.com/nospam.html Visit the following ANTI-SPAM related Web sites for more information on how to combat SPAM and what you can do about it. "Help stop Scam Spammers!" http://www.junkemail.org/scamspam/ Maintainer of the SPAM-L FAQ http://www.ot.com/~dmuth/spam-l Complaint Addresses (GoodGuys|Unresponsive|Foe) http://www-fofa.concordia.ca/spam/complaints.shtml "If you want to improve your spam-fighting skills, check out" http://abuse.net/spam-l. Anchor Desk "Special Spam Fighting Edition" http://www4.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_index_19970819.html How to Get Rid of Junk Mail, and Telemarketers http://www.csn.net/~felbel/jnkmail.html Best Regards, >Hotmail Policy Enforcement >abuse@hotmail.com (408) 222-7011 >Forward full message and header of email in question -----End of forwarded message----- -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 16:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11652 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11560 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:47:20 GMT (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id BAA21590; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:18 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hotmail References: <19980420074308.58582@welearn.com.au> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Apr 1998 01:47:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: Sue Blake's message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:43:08 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake writes: > The topic of spam from hotmail has come up here a couple of times. > We all wish they didn't exist, however... > > They seem to have improved their handling of spam reports in recent > weeks, providing responses like the following within hours (which is more > than I can say of many regular ISPs). If anyone is getting pestered by > hotmail spammners it might be worth noting that writing to > abuse@hotmail.com does produce some result these days. If I'm mistaken, > someone please correct me. > > > -----Forwarded message from policy@hotmail.com----- > [...] > Hotmail does not in any way condone or support the sending of junk mail > (aka spam) messages through our system. The Hotmail TOS strictly forbids > this and we terminate all accounts that we are made aware that are in > violation of the TOS. Yeah, right. You *are* aware of the fact that they are in the business of address-gathering and -selling? Send mail to a hotmail account, get spammed. Get mail from a friend with a hotmail account, get spammed. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Apr 19 20:09:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23331 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23321 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 03:08:53 GMT (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id FAA10309 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:08:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id AAA04907; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:36:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980420003608.A4736@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:36:08 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hotmail Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980420074308.58582@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <19980420074308.58582@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 07:43:08AM +1000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4213 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Sue Blake: > abuse@hotmail.com does produce some result these days. If I'm mistaken, > someone please correct me. I've recently got a couple kills too from them so it seems that they're improving. The main problem is spammers that forge an hotmail.com From: address. It is difficult to filter these... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #3: Tue Apr 14 21:41:01 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 07:26:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29277 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29196 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:25:41 GMT (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20391; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.327 (Beta) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:27 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >------------------------------------------------------------ >Info-Policy-Notes | News from Consumer Project on Technology >------------------------------------------------------------ >April 20, 1998 > > > Microsoft's Ambitions and Antitrust Policy > > Ralph Nader and James Love > > Remarks at the Cato Institution Policy Forum > on Antitrust and Microsoft > April 20, 1998 > (http://www.essential.org/antitrust/ms/catoapril20.html) > >1. What is at stake? > >In his day, John D. Rockefeller tried to monopolize oil production, >refining and distribution. Alcoa sought to protect its monopoly in >manufacturing aluminum. AT&T tried to monopolize local and long >distance transmission of telephone calls and the manufacturing and sale >of telephone handsets or devices that would connect to telephone lines. >For decades IBM dominated the computer mainframe software and hardware >market. Intel is trying to monopolize the manufacturing of hardware >used to run personal computers. > >Microsoft is more ambitious, and the implications of its global strategy >are far more far important. Microsoft wants to use a core monopoly in >software operating systems to dominate an enormous range of new and >important areas of electronic commerce, and Microsoft wants to >monopolize the software used to navigate the Internet and to navigate >the next generation of television and multimedia programs. > >If Microsoft were to succeed in every area it is active, it would have >the most important control over commerce and worldwide information flows >of any firm, ever. > >Increasingly, we are talking about technology that is used as a gateway >for many businesses, publishing ventures and civic communications, and >Microsoft wants to dominate, influence or control the content itself, >not just the transmission. > >This elevates the disputes over Microsoft use of its Operating System as >a matter of public policy. > >2. How is this done? > >In the software area, Microsoft engages in a very wide range of >anticompetitive acts --- many of them are very similar to techniques >used by Standard Oil, AT&T or IBM, before each of these companies faced >antitrust action. > >One strategy of a monopolist is to deter entry or investment by rivals >by engaging in predatory pricing. Standard Oil used cross subsidies to >selectively cut prices, so it could bankrupt its rivals. AT&T used >cross subsidies to selectively cut prices, and drive rivals out of >business. IBM used cross subsidies to selectively cut prices, and drive >rivals out of business. Microsoft does this too. > >Microsoft can take a rival's core product, and spend countless millions >in R&D or acquisitions, and then offer a competing product for free, or >bundle it with Windows or with Microsoft Office --- the suite of office >productivity applications which are nearly as ubiquitous as the >operating system. > >For example, faced with Microsoft's decision to spend hundreds of >millions of dollars on a free alternative, Netscape is unlikely to >justify continued R&D spending on its browser. And when Microsoft >announced that it would include copies of its Outlook product in >Microsoft Office, Netmanage announced it would discontinue further >development of Ecco Pro (http://www.netmanage.com/products/eccopro/). > >Microsoft benefits from predatory pricing in two ways: > >- once the threat of competition is less, it can later > raise prices, > >- Microsoft's tough reputation scares off other new > entrants. > >But there are also technological strategies for predation, such as those >concerned with Interoperability. These too have many parallels with >other monopolies. > >In high tech markets, it is often the case that products must >interoperate with each other. AT&T tried to limit the ability of >competitors products to interoperate with the AT&T telephone network, by >withholding technical information, using proprietary technologies, or by >changing standards to create incompatibilities of rivals products. IBM >did this. Intel is doing this now. Microsoft has done this for a long >time, going back to the days when programmers coined the phrase, "DOS >isn't done until Lotus won't run," referring to Microsoft's introduction >of minor changes in DOS that created problems with Lotus 123, the >spreadsheet program that is a competitor to Microsoft's Excel. If >Microsoft can't make its own products look better by taking advantage of >technical back doors, it can make a rivals products perform badly, or it >can make its own products technically essential, as it is trying to do >with the browser. > >When you combine both predatory pricing and technological predation, >firms and investors decide on their own to keep out of Microsoft's way. >Consider the following quote from an April 18 story by Lisa Bowen in >Ziff Davis's ZDNET web site: >(http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0418/308142.html) > > A further challenge for the DOJ is showing that > Microsoft is actually stifling innovation because > it's hard to measure Microsoft's products against > those that never make it to market. > > There's no question that many developers are shying > away from independent projects in areas that Microsoft > might consider. At Microsoft's Windows CE development > conference, developers lined up during a > question-and-answer session to ask the software behemoth > which products it doesn't plan to develop, as if they > were looking for crumbs. > > Other software makers said they attended the conference > to check out Microsoft's plans to make sure they stay out > of the company's road. > > A new area of predation for Microsoft concerns Internet >navigation. >One of the major reasons that Microsoft wants to have a monopoly on >Internet Browsers, is so that Microsoft can design the Windows operating >system to have as much control as possible on navigation itself. There >are several aspects of this. > > Microsoft wants to write the default bookmarks and menu options >for >content based upon current and new Internet technologies. The >unsuccessful experiments with so called "push" channel technologies was >one attempt. The new Microsoft "Start" page project is a more elaborate >version. Microsoft has also designed its Browser so it can periodically >check in with Microsoft to reset bookmarks, menus and other items with >ones Microsoft's suggests, gently but ever so steadily taking consumers >"where Microsoft wants them to go today." Microsoft is developing its >own search engine, which it hopes will replace Yahoo and other popular >search sites. > > This is a "path of least resistance" strategy, based upon the >idea that >time and attention are the ultimate scarce resource in the information >age. > > Will it work? Consider commercial airline reservation systems. >One >study indicated that professional air travel agents using online >reservation systems would pick the first fare they saw 53 percent of the >time, and a fare from the 1st screen 93 percent of the time. > > When Microsoft bought Web TV, it changed the travel menu so that >Expedia, the Microsoft travel service, appeared first in the travel >menu. Sabre told us their Travelocity web site lost is prominent menu >location, and was moved to page 6, next to Tom's Travel, in an >alphabetical listing. How many people in the audience ever look at page >6 when you use an Internet search engine? > >What will happen if Microsoft succeeds in its wildest dreams and >determines which flower shop, which citizen group, and which car dealer >appears on page 1 and which one appears on page 6? What if Microsoft >could determine what information appears on page 1 when a person >searches for information about Representative Rick White or legislation >concerning digital copyright? > >3. What Should Be Done. > > In 1997, we organized a conference to Appraise Microsoft's >Global >Strategy. I believe we now have a fairly good idea of where some of the >problems are. It is time to shift the debate to the issue of remedies. >What can and what should be done about the Microsoft Monopoly? This >will be the focus of our next Microsoft conference. > > The current DOJ litigation deals with narrow issues concerning >restrictive contracts and product bundling. The easiest remedies would >limit the use of restrictive contracts, such as contracts that prevent >Internet Service Providers or OEMs from giving consumers the opportunity >to choose non-Microsoft products. Practical rules regarding product >bundling are more difficult, as is the issue of predatory pricing, which >DOJ and the EC have ignored. But there are several other types of >remedies which may be more useful. > >Issues regarding interoperability are very important. The European >Community's 1984 undertaking with IBM was mostly about interoperability >issues. (http://www.essential.org/antitrust/ms/1984ibmeu.html). There >has been much antitrust work on interoperability that relates to >telephone monopolies. In recent years, the Federal Trade Commission has >negotiated agreements with several other software companies to open user >interfaces, such as the FTC's 1995 agreement with Silicon Graphics, Inc >(Docket No. C-3626), which required SGI to "establish and maintain an >open architecture, and publish Application Program Interfaces ("APIs"), >for . . . computers and operating systems in such manner that [third >party] software developers and producers may develop and sell . . . >software, for use on [SGIs] computers, in competition with [SGI]." > > More relevant is last week's landmark ruling in the Intergraph >v. Intel >case, where a federal judge ruled that Intel's CPU platform is an >essential facility - and ordered Intel to provide non-discriminatory >access to technical data needed to develop products which interoperate >with the Intel CPU. (http://www.intergraph.com/intel/highlights.stm ). >Now that the "tel" half of Wintel is considered an essential facility, >what about the "Win" half? Biases of Internet navigation and related >areas are very important, particularly if Microsoft succeeds in >monopolizing the browser market, dominating the search engine market, >and becoming the front end for new video set top boxes. Policy makers >and the public need to debate conduct rules which would prevent a >dominant OS vendor, like Microsoft, from exercising undue influence over >Internet information searching and navigation technologies. > > There are also other remedies that challenge Microsoft on a more >basic >level. We are asking OEMs to offer consumers the opportunity to >purchase alternative operating systems, not owned by Microsoft. >(http://www.essential.org/antitrust/ms/ipnmarch91998.html) These include >both commercial competitors, like Rhapsody, BeOS or OS2, and a new >generation of powerful free operating systems, such as Linux or FreeBSD, >which are rapidity maturing as alternatives. > > We believe there are factors which make it more feasible for a >new OS >to succeed. Larger and cheaper hard disks and computer memory make it >possible to run multiple operating systems on the same computer. We do >this now at our offices. Secondly, the Internet and new Internet >standards bodies make it easier to share data across OS platforms. >Third, new software development tools make it easier to port software >applications across platforms. > > There remain barriers for new OS platforms, however. The most >important >of which concern device drivers, which are still scarce for Windows >alternatives. Making matters more difficult would be efforts by >Microsoft and Intel to control the architecture of a new generation of >high performance device drivers. > > Leading Original Equipment Manufactures (OEMs) for personal >computers, >like Dell, Micron, Gateway 2000, Packard Bell, Compaq and others need to >be free from retaliation by Microsoft if the OEMs offer non-Microsoft >products, including choices of software operating systems. This may be >difficult in practice if Microsoft can discriminate in its pricing of >the software OEMs need for the current corporate and consumer market. >If Microsoft were required to use non-discriminatory licensing of >Windows and Microsoft Office, OEMs would be free to offer consumers >additional choices. > > Essential Information has created an Internet email list to >discuss these issues. You can participate by sending a note to >listproc@essential.org with the message "sub am-info yourfirstname >yourlastname." Archives of this list are available on the Internet at >http://www.essential.org/listproc/am-info/ (no period). The Consumer >Project on Technology also maintains a web page on Microsoft antitrust >issues at http://www.essential.org/antitrust/microsoft/microsoft.html >(no period). > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >INFORMATION POLICY NOTES is a newsletter sponsored by the Consumer >Project on Technology (http://www.cptech.org, 202.387.8030, fax >202.234.5127). Archives of Info-Policy-Notes are available from >http://www.essential.org/listproc/info-policy-notes/ >Subscription requests to "listproc@cptech.org" with the message >"subscribe info-policy-notes Jane Doe" >------------------------------------------------------------------ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 07:56:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06840 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA06798 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:56:15 GMT (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199804201451.KAA06903@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:54:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Mark T. Ganzer" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High bandwidth use w/ VIC and BT848? In-Reply-To: <353AC853.E1A3751C@spawar.navy.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Mark T. Ganzer wrote: > - Mark T. Ganzer > Space & Naval Warfare Systems Center, San Diego > ganzer@spawar.navy.mil Damnit, you should yell at someone to get that domain name fixed. ganzer@spacewar.navy.mil would just be a damned cool email address. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 09:44:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03822 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03527; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:40:16 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:39:08 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:39:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lanny Baron " To: Joey Garcia cc: Malartre , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I made on on the undernet already. Just need some more users to get X/W bot. And of course some ops. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 09:45:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05308 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05240; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:45:26 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:44:28 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:44:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lanny Baron " To: Malartre cc: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > Effnet is too much of a pain....we'd have to worry about channel takeovers > > and BS like that. Wouldnt Dalnet's services be more suitable? > > > > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > hehe > cya > Malartre > > > Joey Garcia > > > > =================================================== > > Joseph Garcia > > Downey, CA > > bear@pacificnet.net > > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > > =================================================== > > > > On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > > > > > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > > > effnet? > > > > > > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > > > newbie-related-thing > > > > > > anyone interested to support it? > > > cya > > > Malartre > > > > > > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > > > Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE I don't see whats wrong with the undernet or dalnet. With the amount of people that use FreeBSD, it doesn't hurt to have a #freebsd-newbies in as many irc nets as possible. If anything it certainly make the exposure of FreeBSD much more visible. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 10:31:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18252 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:31:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18086 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:30:43 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07494; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:30:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804201730.KAA07494@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:27 MDT." <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:30:29 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To all responsible for including FreeBSD in Ralph's paper , Congrats!!!! And There Is Hope... Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 11:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25828 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25518 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:02:39 GMT (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02333; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:37:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19980419103704.62237@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:37:04 +0100 From: James Raynard To: dwilde1@ibm.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makes you wonder... References: <199804181916.VAA14407@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980418213331.18062@jraynard.demon.co.uk> <35398553.F354E2DF@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <35398553.F354E2DF@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 10:02:11PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 10:02:11PM -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > We _are_ making a difference. InfoWorld is getting downright positive > about freeware in business, and Network World's editor asked me to speak > at NW+IOP on the basis of my use and satisfaction with FreeBSD. Great! But there's little sign of it here (UK) so far - Linux is only mentioned in computer magazines, and then only in passing, and FreeBSD seems practically unheard of. Actually, a so-called "Advanced Operating Systems Column" took a look at FreeBSD last month (only 4 years after the column started, but never mind). You know, the kind of thing where they spend one month's column on describing all the problems they had getting an OS up (with the hidden implication of how clever they were to overcome them) and then the next month giving their impressions of it (with perhaps a bit more the month after that if they were really impressed). Unfortunately, and I use the word advisedly, he had a completely smooth installation over the Internet, which left him with nothing much more to write than "I plugged in my modem, tapped a few keys and that was it really" - so he devoted the remaining two pages of his column to some Linux gismo. Sometimes quality can be a drawback... Oh well, at least it's a start. -- `"regression testing"? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is perfect.' - Linus Torvalds on linux-kernel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 13:20:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06626 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.tol.it (mail.tin.it [194.243.154.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06506 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:20:10 GMT (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from dumbwinter.tin.it (BustoArsizio2-42.tin.it [195.31.188.41]) by mail.tol.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA09515 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:18:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 1472 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Apr 1998 19:54:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:54:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni To: Brett Glass cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > > Microsoft's Ambitions and Antitrust Policy [...] Brett, I found your the article you forwarded very interesting. Marco --- "Bill Gates is only a white persian cat and a monocle away from being the villain in a James Bond movie." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 13:44:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11725 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11540 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:43:35 GMT (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA03737; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:43:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980420154328.01501@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:43:28 -0500 From: dannyman To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD Mail-Followup-To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 08:25:27AM -0600 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ``... and a new generation of powerful free operating systems, such as Linux or FreeBSD, which are rapidity maturing as alternatives.'' ... not only do we get a mention, we get a favorable bias, and second billing to Linux, but that's a given. :D -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 14:37:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27801 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124b.rh.psu.edu (MPH124B.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27392 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:36:22 GMT (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) From: gsutter@pobox.com Received: from localhost (gsutter@localhost) by mph124b.rh.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA09321 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:36:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: gsutter@mph124b.rh.psu.edu To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hotmail In-Reply-To: <19980420003608.A4736@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Ollivier Robert wrote: >According to Sue Blake: >> abuse@hotmail.com does produce some result these days. If I'm mistaken, >> someone please correct me. >I've recently got a couple kills too from them so it seems that they're >improving. The main problem is spammers that forge an hotmail.com From: >address. It is difficult to filter these... If you use procmail, this should do the trick. # AOL, Hotmail, Juno, USA forged From: headers. Note the space at the # end of the last line. :0 * ^From:.*@\/((hotmail|juno|aol).com|usa.net) * ! ^(Received|Message-Id):.*(((hotmail|juno|aol).com|usa.net) ) { JFEXP="$JFSEC: Forged From: header from $MATCH" } Insert your own action line where mine is, of course, unless you run . GReg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 14:53:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02132 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02091 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:53:48 GMT (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.46]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA2072; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:56:46 +0500 Message-ID: <353BC3BA.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:52:58 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marco Molteni CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marco Molteni wrote: > ... > --- > "Bill Gates is only a white persian cat and a monocle away from being the > villain in a James Bond movie." > Actually he WAS a villain in a James Bond movie...I think it was the last one, but I don't recall the name of the movie. Remember this bad guy that had control over the newspapers and other masive media? He also released software "full of bugs so that people will have to update"...the image of Billy came clearly to my mind during that scene :-). cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 15:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29495 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29205 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:42:56 GMT (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id OAA12456 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:42:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:42:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ok, who did it?! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, which one of you nuked the box Gates was using? C'mon, it's ok to admit it. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." Linux -- Window95 of the Unix world. ========== Monday April 20 4:49 PM EDT Gates encounters problems in Windows 98 presentation CHICAGO (Reuters) - Computer mogul Bill Gates had a couple of his own run-ins with technology on Monday as he kicked off a convention where Microsoft Corp sought to impress with its most user-friendly new offerings. It was awkward enough when the presenter had trouble getting his microphone to work ahead of Gates' keynote speech. But then Windows 98, Microsoft's updated version of its operating system software, crashed during Gates' presentation. "While we're all very dependent on technology, it doesn't always work," Gates joked. Gates was presenting his "Windows Principles" -- of which Windows 98, to be released early this summer, is an example -- at the COMDEX/Spring '98 convention here. Windows 98 is designed to make the computer simpler to use whatever the purpose, and uses a browser to find everything from documents on an individual computer to Web sites on the Internet. (Reuters/Wired) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 16:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20085 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19966 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:06:20 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09432; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804202305.QAA09432@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:52:58 CDT." <353BC3BA.41C67EA6@asme.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9429.893113554.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:05:54 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Bond's Villain : In response to the request that the software be full bugs: "Excellent, they will be upgrading for years!" Bettina and I instantly smile 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 17:43:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09819 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09645 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:42:55 GMT (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-96.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.96]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA93614; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:42:42 GMT Message-ID: <353BEB60.BB63F6B3@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:42:08 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Raynard CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: makes you wonder... References: <199804181916.VAA14407@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980418213331.18062@jraynard.demon.co.uk> <35398553.F354E2DF@ibm.net> <19980419103704.62237@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Raynard wrote: > Great! But there's little sign of it here (UK) so far - Linux is > only mentioned in computer magazines, and then only in passing, and > FreeBSD seems practically unheard of. > > Actually, a so-called "Advanced Operating Systems Column" took a look > at FreeBSD last month (only 4 years after the column started, but never > mind). You know, the kind of thing where they spend one month's column > on describing all the problems they had getting an OS up (with the hidden > implication of how clever they were to overcome them) and then the next > month giving their impressions of it (with perhaps a bit more the month > after that if they were really impressed). Unfortunately, and I use the > word advisedly, he had a completely smooth installation over the Internet, > which left him with nothing much more to write than "I plugged in my modem, > tapped a few keys and that was it really" - so he devoted the remaining > two pages of his column to some Linux gismo. Sometimes quality can be a > drawback... > > Oh well, at least it's a start. You should let him know FreeBSD users read his column. That'll make him re-visit the issue. Keep to the high road, the Media _can_ be our friends. > > -- > `"regression testing"? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it > boots up it is perfect.' - Linus Torvalds on linux-kernel > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 19:04:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24654 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (wumpus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24492 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:04:15 GMT (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (wumpus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.12]) by wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id LAA11903; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:58:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:58:53 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@wumpus.its.uow.edu.au To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <353BC3BA.41C67EA6@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You too? :) Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Marco Molteni wrote: > > > ... > > --- > > "Bill Gates is only a white persian cat and a monocle away from being the > > villain in a James Bond movie." > > > Actually he WAS a villain in a James Bond movie...I think it was the > last one, but I don't recall the name of the movie. > > Remember this bad guy that had control over the newspapers and other > masive media? He also released software "full of bugs so that people > will have to update"...the image of Billy came clearly to my mind during > that scene :-). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [snip] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 22:04:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26559 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:04:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@[199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26509 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:04:24 GMT (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA16465; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <353BC3BA.41C67EA6@asme.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Actually he WAS a villain in a James Bond movie...I think it was the > last one, but I don't recall the name of the movie. "Tomorrow Never Dies"? > Remember this bad guy that had control over the newspapers and other > masive media? He also released software "full of bugs so that people > will have to update"...the image of Billy came clearly to my mind during > that scene :-). Yup. He even looked the part, I thought. Although, to be fair, a couple of current media barons came to mind, too. I think it was clearly aimed at Bill, but some of those latter people might have fit the part better. OTOH, wouldn't have made half as good a movie, then. ;-) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 22:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29570 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29562 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:29:49 GMT (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.50]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA2595; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:32:59 +0500 Message-ID: <353C2EAC.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:29:16 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > Actually he WAS a villain in a James Bond movie...I think it was the > > last one, but I don't recall the name of the movie. > > "Tomorrow Never Dies"? > Yeah (I arrived late, as usual)..they are running out of names. BTW, the software on the BMW was probably even controlled by FreeBSD-Java (unconfirmed rumor that I started ;-). cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Apr 20 22:53:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03501 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA03448; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:52:43 GMT (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id HAA08242; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:52:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA27072; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:25:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980421072521.43822@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:25:21 +0200 From: J Wunsch To: FreeBSD chat list Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, jak@cetlink.net, peter@netplex.com.au, des@FreeBSD.ORG, "Alok K. Dhir" Subject: Re: Correct English style Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Alok K. Dhir on Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 09:48:30AM -0400 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (Moved to -chat) As Alok K. Dhir wrote: > On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 danny@panda.hilink.com.au wrote: > > > When someone who learnt English as a second language corrects English > ^^^^^^ > > That's "learned". :-) Nope, at least by the time when i went to school, both the regular and the irregular past tense form of `learn' have been valid. IIRC, with a tendency to consider the regular form being `more modern'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 01:58:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26069 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26035 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:58:22 GMT (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01550 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:58:28 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:58:27 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry Reply-To: Andrew Perry To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: blue screen of death Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just a little gem for you all that I just saw on the news. Bill Gates was at some kind of windows 98 presentation on stage with another presenter. The other person was demonstrating how to add a scanner to the pc and just as he added it and was saying what the next step was up came the blue screen of death for everyone to see :-) Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 05:49:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:49:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01731 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:49:49 GMT (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199804211246.IAA10652@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:49:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Redirected to -chat On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC > channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. > > I've drifted through a couple of times, and I get the impression you lot > wouldn't want newbies jumping around in there, and I note that the IrcII > port no longer defaults to that server. On the other hand, it might actually > be helpful to have a newbies channel nearby you could send people to. It > would also be mentioned on the Newbies Resources web page. > > What are your thoughts on this? As one who is continously on bsdnet, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell, yall can have the #FreeBSD channel itself if you want it, it's almost never populated and sees minimal chat. Anyone have a problem with it? -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 08:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20653 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20636 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:08:11 GMT (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA06808 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:08:09 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id IAA15279 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Consolidation of FAQ & Handbook Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I propose the FreeBSD put the knowledge of the FAQ into the handbook. Maintain the FAQ as a hyperlinked index to the handbook. This could curb duplication of documentation between the FAQ and the Handbook. It would improve the sanity of looking up information in the docs. None of the FAQs effectiveness need be lost. Have fun, | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more... Jason Wells | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 08:19:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23664 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23619 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:19:29 GMT (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07257; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.327 (Beta) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:19:24 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: The "Anti-GPL" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I had an interesting discussion with some friends who are Linux "fanatics" last night. They said that the *BSDs will naturally never do as well as Linux, because the GPL "locks" code into the GNU model. That is to day, the Linux folks can take code from FreeBSD, add their own, and "copyleft" the result -- at which point it can't be published again under the less restrictive Berkeley license. (And to think that the Linux folks claim that *others* "take code hostage.") If I publish code that's free for anyone to use, I want to make sure that it *stays* that way and is not encumbered by the GPL. So, I'm working on the text of an "anti-GPL" license -- in effect, a variation of the Berkeley license that explicitly prevents derivative works from being released under a more restrictive license like the GPL. Of course, I don't want to *call* it the "Anti-GPL," though that's my working name.... I'd like it to call it something like the "truly free software" license. Or something even more catchy. Any ideas for names? For provisions that should be included in the license? Would it be desirable to place existing parts of FreeBSD under such a license? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 08:21:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24140 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24104 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:20:51 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25258; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:20:44 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA03432; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:20:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980421172043.24181@follo.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:20:43 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jason C. Wells" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Consolidation of FAQ & Handbook References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 07:06:53AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 07:06:53AM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I propose the FreeBSD put the knowledge of the FAQ into the handbook. > Maintain the FAQ as a hyperlinked index to the handbook. > > This could curb duplication of documentation between the FAQ and the > Handbook. It would improve the sanity of looking up information in the > docs. None of the FAQs effectiveness need be lost. The plan is to re-organize both the FAQ and handbook in connection with the conversion to the docbook DTD. This will probably include something like the above (but possibly in the form of automated extracts to create the FAQ). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 08:28:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25215 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25208 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:28:05 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25450; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:27:59 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA03451; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:27:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980421172759.60471@follo.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:27:59 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" References: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 09:19:24AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 09:19:24AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > I had an interesting discussion with some friends who > are Linux "fanatics" last night. They said that the *BSDs > will naturally never do as well as Linux, because the GPL > "locks" code into the GNU model. That is to day, the Linux > folks can take code from FreeBSD, add their own, and > "copyleft" the result -- at which point it can't be > published again under the less restrictive Berkeley license. > (And to think that the Linux folks claim that *others* > "take code hostage.") This is not allowed by the GPL. The GPL explictly forbids more restrictions than the GPL itself place on the code; thus, such code in not re-distributable. > Of course, I don't want to *call* it the "Anti-GPL," though that's > my working name.... I'd like it to call it something like the "truly > free software" license. > Or something even more catchy. Any ideas for names? > For provisions that should be included in the license? Just include a statement that 'derivate works may not be placed under a license which deny binary distribution without source availability, or place restrictions on binary distribution that make this impractical.' or somesuch - that should be enough, I think. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 08:57:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:57:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00814 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:57:03 GMT (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.50]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA3141; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:59:35 +0500 Message-ID: <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:55:46 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" References: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> <19980421172759.60471@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org MIT's X11 has one of these licences; note that there is no GPL'd X11 ! OTOH, GPL is so restrictive that commercial providers (like netscape) can't contribute to it. Eric Raymond and Linus are indeed promoting more BSD-like licenses. Take a look at http://www.opensource.org/ cheers, Pedro. Eivind Eklund wrote: > ... > > > For provisions that should be included in the license? > > Just include a statement that 'derivate works may not be placed under > a license which deny binary distribution without source availability, > or place restrictions on binary distribution that make this > impractical.' or somesuch - that should be enough, I think. > > Eivind. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 10:59:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29071 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28973 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:59:11 GMT (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA28936; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:54:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:54:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199804211754.LAA28936@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Brett Glass cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.chat In-Reply-To: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> you wrote: > I had an interesting discussion with some friends who > are Linux "fanatics" last night. They said that the *BSDs > will naturally never do as well as Linux, because the GPL > "locks" code into the GNU model. That is to day, the Linux > folks can take code from FreeBSD, add their own, and > "copyleft" the result -- at which point it can't be > published again under the less restrictive Berkeley license. > (And to think that the Linux folks claim that *others* > "take code hostage.") This is simply untrue. The GPL requires that no additional restrictions be placed on the code other than the terms of the GPL. So, unless your copyright has no terms or, as is the case with the aic7xxx driver explicitly allows the replacement of the licensing terms with the GPL, you cannot mix GPL and non-GPL code in a single binary object. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 11:30:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09257 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08996 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:30:02 GMT (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id UAA01961; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:29:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:29:52 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:29:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:27 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > [quoted from Nader's paper] > > If Microsoft were to succeed in every area it is active, it would have > > the most important control over commerce and worldwide information flows > > of any firm, ever. "Tomorrow never dies" -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 11:44:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12729 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12579 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:43:53 GMT (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07928; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:42:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804211842.NAA07928@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" In-Reply-To: <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org> from "Pedro F. Giffuni" at "Apr 21, 98 10:55:46 am" To: giffunip@asme.org (Pedro F. Giffuni) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:42:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: eivind@yes.no, brett@lariat.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > MIT's X11 has one of these licences; note that there is no GPL'd X11 ! > > OTOH, GPL is so restrictive that commercial providers (like netscape) > can't contribute to it. Eric Raymond and Linus are indeed promoting more > BSD-like licenses. > Take a look at > http://www.opensource.org/ > Wow!!! If that is true, that is great!!! John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 12:04:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19916 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19744 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:46 GMT (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-15.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.15]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA67712; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:12 GMT Message-ID: <353CED4E.652BD872@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:02:38 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav" CC: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: <199804201425.IAA20391@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I posted this to HWG-servers, but the LG squashed it before it ever made the list. I would like to put forward my personal nightmare scenario. There are a whole lot of businesses out there that depend on Micros**t Windows-based PC's, mine being one of them. Remember that now M$ is close to controlling the server market as well as the PC market. Remember all the license terms of the Agreement you sign by breaking the seal on the package: * You own nothing * Company warrants nothing except the media * Company promises nothing about what software does * You absolve company of liability for _any_ actions of software. What if there's a time-bomb or internet-enabled trigger that goes out and checks your network for licenses? The latest NT Service Pack requires installation of IE4 with all its little ActiveX snoops enabled. Even if you don't have IE on the desktop, surely it's trivial for M$ to have put a little bootstrap hook into Windows a long time ago. Remember too that cloning is not acceptable to them, even if you own the proper ## of packages on the shelf. Perhaps he wouldn't lock up the PC's, but it would be a major irritant if DLL's disappeared, or the display didn't work anymore, or... Just those little things, you know, that keep us from having time to learn and configure FreeBSD because we're too busy fixing users' PC's... I'd investigate more, but my users are calling! Something about Word that won't display once it loads? ~~~8( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 12:13:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23335 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23241 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:35 GMT (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10701; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804211913.NAA10701@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.327 (Beta) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:13:23 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: "BSD bashing" is rampant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just posted a message on InfoWorld Electric's forums praising FreeBSD and critiquing the GPL. Immediately, the following message was posted. (It's not uncommon to see similar misinformation spread whenever FreeBSD is mentioned in an online forum.) Posted by: bryan Date posted: Tue Apr 21 9:47:20 PDT 1998 I know what the GPL says. That doesn't keep it from being the best license. FreeBSD has broken up. Linux has been together for eight years. Linux has 6 million installations; *BSD, less than a million. The BSD license gives the ability to improve and have a monopoly on the improvements, but this doesn't end up helping. It truly lets a thousand strains flourish. GPL doesn't; GPL subjects the code to ruthless darwinian survival of the best solution. Either way, only MS truly benefits from the changes made by other companies to fix MS's cruft and add ridiculously basic features. The GPL is better than that, at least. And it works. There is plenty of commercial interaction with Linux, in every realm. I pointed out that FreeBSD has by no means "broken up," that millions of CDs have shipped, and that that there are more network installs than of Linux because it's easier to do. If you'd care to respond to this particular flame, it's at http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?52270 --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 14:01:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22383 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA22277 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:01:00 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:00:13 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:00:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lanny Baron " To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD-newbies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, This is just to let people know that #FreeBSD-newbies has been made on both the efnet and the undernet. Although there is #freebsd which I frequent, many very basic questions don't get answered or at times a flame starts up. I hope this can aliviate the problem. This is in no way to be construed as some type of competition for the existing channel #freebsd on the efnet. It would be nice if the new channels could be listed on a web page or in the handbook. If anything, it could help out people new to the FreeBSD operating system and it would also be good for FreeBSD's image with respect to support. I for one love FreeBSD (heh, just ordered the latest book by Greg Lehey, the newest CD, a few polo shirts and some tee shirts) but have had a hell of a time learning UNIX. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 14:22:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27421 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27276 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:21:53 GMT (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.49]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA3675; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:23:59 +0500 Message-ID: <353D0D92.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:20:18 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John S. Dyson" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" References: <199804211842.NAA07928@dyson.iquest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, that was IMHO...notice that GPL is not considered opensource. The motivation behind opensource is better explained by Eric Raymond in his homepage. ( I don't care much about opensource...I think they are rediscovering FreeBSD's advantages ;-) Pedro. John S. Dyson wrote: > > > MIT's X11 has one of these licences; note that there is no GPL'd X11 ! > > > > OTOH, GPL is so restrictive that commercial providers (like netscape) > > can't contribute to it. Eric Raymond and Linus are indeed promoting more > > BSD-like licenses. > > Take a look at > > http://www.opensource.org/ > > > Wow!!! If that is true, that is great!!! > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 21 18:58:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16440 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16374 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:58:13 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-23.aei.ca [206.186.204.173]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16097; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D4EAE.54C90DF3@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:58:06 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lanny Baron " CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lanny Baron wrote: > Hello, > > This is just to let people know that #FreeBSD-newbies has been made on > both the efnet and the undernet. Although there is #freebsd which I > frequent, many very basic questions don't get answered or at times a flame > starts up. I hope this can aliviate the problem. This is in no way to be > construed as some type of competition for the existing channel #freebsd on > the efnet. > > It would be nice if the new channels could be listed on a web page or > in the handbook. If anything, it could help out people new to the FreeBSD > operating system and it would also be good for FreeBSD's image with > respect to support. > > I for one love FreeBSD (heh, just ordered the latest book by Greg > Lehey, the newest CD, a few polo shirts and some tee shirts) but have had > a hell of a time learning UNIX. > > Lanny Well, we talk about what server to use on newbies@freebsd.org. I dont think its a good Idea to put that channel on more than one server. Not to much people right now. And some dont love the Idea ;-) Malartre - KapuT -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 02:59:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA07856 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07850 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:58:55 GMT (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA05269; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:58:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980422115854.49089@cons.org> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:58:54 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , Eivind Eklund Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" References: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> <19980421172759.60471@follo.net> <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org>; from Pedro F. Giffuni on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:55:46AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org>, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > OTOH, GPL is so restrictive that commercial providers (like netscape) > can't contribute to it. Eric Raymond and Linus are indeed promoting more > BSD-like licenses. > Take a look at > http://www.opensource.org/ Hm, the bottom of http://www.opensource.org/osd.html says: 10. Example Licenses. The GNU GPL, BSD, X Consortium, and Artistic licenses are examples of licenses that we consider conformant to the Open Source Definition. I didn't find wordings that are against the GPL. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 11:54:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15837 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15742 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:54:33 GMT (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.31]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA4933; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:57:10 +0500 Message-ID: <353E3C9D.41C67EA6@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:53:17 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Cracauer CC: Eivind Eklund , Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The "Anti-GPL" References: <199804211519.JAA07257@lariat.lariat.org> <19980421172759.60471@follo.net> <353CC182.794BDF32@asme.org> <19980422115854.49089@cons.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmm..I'm sorry, I confused Eric Raymond's page with the opensource concept, and since this was in an "anti-GPL" message there was a confusion. The opensource concept is based on Netscape's recent decision, they are opening a space for other licenses, therefore promoting them, but they don't are not pretending to attack GPL. I was wrong in that GPL is also considered opensource..ah well there's nothing new in their reasoning. sorry for the mixup, Pedro. Martin Cracauer wrote: > > > Hm, the bottom of http://www.opensource.org/osd.html says: > > 10. Example Licenses. > > The GNU GPL, BSD, X Consortium, and Artistic licenses are examples of > licenses that we consider conformant to the Open Source Definition. > > I didn't find wordings that are against the GPL. > > Martin > -- > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer > BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 15:29:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17984 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:29:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newport-1-12.quick.net (josh@newport-1-12.quick.net [207.212.160.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17926 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:29:11 GMT (envelope-from josh@newport-1-12.quick.net) Received: (from josh@localhost) by newport-1-12.quick.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09672; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josh) Message-ID: <19980422152900.A9633@newport-1-12.quick.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:29:00 -0700 From: Josh Gilliam To: "Alok K. Dhir" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Studded@san.rr.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/syslogd syslogd.c References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.1 In-Reply-To: X-Editor: nvi 1.79 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 X-IRC: soil Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > to frob the settings. > > frob? $ dict -d jargon frob 1 definition found >From Jargon File (4.0.0/24 July 1996) [jargon]: frob /frob/ 1. /n./ [MIT] The {TMRC} definition was "FROB = a protruding arm or trunnion"; by metaphoric extension, a `frob' is any random small thing; an object that you can comfortably hold in one hand; something you can frob (sense 2). See {frobnitz}. 2. /vt./ Abbreviated form of {frobnicate}. 3. [from the {MUD} world] A command on some MUDs that changes a player's experience level (this can be used to make wizards); also, to request {wizard} privileges on the `professional courtesy' grounds that one is a wizard elsewhere. The command is actually `frobnicate' but is universally abbreviated to the shorter form. -- Josh Gilliam 5333 E Los Arboles Ave 1 714 633 6499 Orange CA 92869-4216 USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 17:09:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09282 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae16.verinet.com [199.45.181.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09269 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:08:55 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12693 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:28:01 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804220428.WAA12693@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980420154328.01501@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ``... and a new generation of powerful free operating systems, such as > Linux or FreeBSD, which are rapidity maturing as alternatives.'' > > ... not only do we get a mention, we get a favorable bias, and second > billing to Linux, but that's a given. :D There ya go Jordan; Linux and FreeBSD in the same sentence... Hows it feel? :) Linux is still much bigger, but it is pretty obvious we are receiving more notice every day. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 17:35:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17728 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (root@jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17631 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:34:51 GMT (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id RAA21056 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:34:51 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id RAA25532 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:33:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Jordan isn't the only one to blame! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don't forget to blame David and the others too. :) Perhaps we should refer to Mr. Hubbard in the third person as "His Coreness" (a la "His Airness") as the embodiment of FreeBSD, Inc. Have fun, | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more... Jason Wells | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Apr 22 17:44:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20442 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:44:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20407 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:44:20 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23239; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804230044.RAA23239@rah.star-gate.com> To: allen campbell cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:28:01 MDT." <199804220428.WAA12693@const.> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23236.893292246.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:44:06 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am not so sure that Linux is bigger than FreeBSD ... We have companies pumping out freebsd boxes. Whistle, Oracle, also a local router company who got recently bought out (sorry I forgot their name) also our excellent network install makes it very difficult to count seats and I have work on a company which people just carted in their PCs and install FreeBSD now that was funny scene -- grown man carting a PC like baby just dying to dump WinXX and drop in Unix 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 09:18:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29075 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beef.tht.net (beef.tht.net [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28914; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.tht.net) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by beef.tht.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00418; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:16:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.tht.net) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:16:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: "Ian O'Friel" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies In-Reply-To: <006001bd6ecc$0ddccd80$33f648c2@metallica> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Ian O'Friel wrote: > > I think the most sensible option for the IRC channel is to try it on a > Server, if it doesn't work out, move to another server and try again until > you find the right combination...... > > Trial and Error is the Best Way..... > > Ian > Hello again, To be frank, #freebsd-newbies is up and running on both efnet and undernet. In fact I have just purchased another shell account to set up bots in case my ISP reboots (like every day). One person sent mail saying the blind leading the blind...well I have talked to a few people who are willing to help in the channel when it gets going. But the channels can be more than just help. They can be good to get to know other users. By the way, blind leading the blind may result in brainstorms. That in turn may lead to problem solving. In addition, I have received mail from some very interesting people. All of whom, I would like to get to know. Mail is great. But chatting on IRC is even better at times. The only problem is when you stay up for 40 hours at a time. Regards, Lanny Baron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 11:17:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26136 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25957 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27268 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804231816.LAA27268@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux Goes Postal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:16:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?52485 Linux goes "Postal" ! Posted by: rmoyers Date posted: Thu Apr 23 0:06:03 PDT 1998 article about Linux batch clusters that are now doing the OCR for mail sorting at the US Postal service. Here is the header and pointer to the story from the fellow that did it. "Linux is reading your mail, John Taves, April 8, 1998 The United States Postal Service deployed over 900 Linux based systems throughout the United States in 1997 to automatically recognize the destination addresses on mail pieces. Each system consists of 5 dual Pentium Pro 200MHz (PP200) computers and one single PP200 all running Linux." http://members.aa.net/~jtaves/linux.htm On an interesting Note, i wonder how many system OEM/VAR teams this fellow beat out in the bid for the job, ill bet 10 dollars to a doughnut that this Linux hacker beat out others offering systems costing 10s of millions more. Other links about Linux supercomputing Linux Brings Titanic to Life Digital Domain uses Linux supercomputing cluster to create high-tech visual effects. http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue46/2494.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/139296.asp I'm Not Going to Pay a Lot for This Super Computer ! http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue45/2392.html "Beowulf" linux supercomputing at NASA http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/beowulf.html the SWARM Linux supercomputer http://www.CS.ORST.EDU/swarm/ the Loki Linux supercomputer http://loki-www.lanl.gov/ The Grendel Linux supercomputing cluster http://ece.clemson.edu/parl/grendel.htm Linux supercomputing cluster at Caltech http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/resea rch/beowulf/ Cheers !! Raymond ----------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 11:31:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28423 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28308 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id UAA17216; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:30:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:30:41 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: allen campbell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nader paper mentions FreeBSD References: <199804220428.WAA12693@const.> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:30:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: allen campbell's message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:28:01 -0600 (MDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org allen campbell writes: > Linux is still much bigger, but it is pretty obvious we are receiving > more notice every day. I'm not certain that Linux is bigger, at least not everywhere. It certainly is much more visible on the Occidental scene, though. However, I am under the impression that in Southeast Asia, FreeBSD users greatly outnumber Linux users. And even in Europe and the Americas, remember that a large portion of FreeBSD installations are invisible: servers, routers, the kind of machines which just sit there and do their job without ever getting noticed by the general public. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 11:46:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01699 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01663 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id LAA03182; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:45:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Goes Postal In-Reply-To: <199804231816.LAA27268@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All I can say is that we should have bugtraq-linux made specially for linux related postings. Which reminds me -- what was the IP for the US Postal Linux servers? *grin* -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." Linux -- Window95 of the Unix world. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 11:46:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01875 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01617 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:45:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03468 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:45:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Go Unix! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncworld/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html Interesting Unix & NT comparison, leaning heavily towards the free unices, with mention of both Linux and FreeBSD. FreeBSD came second of course.. blah. -- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@inter-linc.net --- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 13:14:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17758 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from general1.consumersedge.com (mail.personalogic.com [208.213.67.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17732 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dshanes@personalogic.com) Received: from SHANES by general1.consumersedge.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id JL0VPPAV; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:14:48 -0700 Message-ID: <01c701bd6ef3$78e27fe0$1d43a8c0@shanes.personalogic.com> From: "David Shanes" To: "Chris Dillon" , Subject: Re: Go Unix! Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:07:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow, what a great article! Here is my favorite part: "For example, are you sure that's an NT server you're connecting to at work? IS employees in many corporations have secretly installed Unix servers that provide native NT services. Why take such a risk? Linux and FreeBSD are free, as is SAMBA, the software that provides NT services. So the IS department saves money. And managers are unlikely to find out Unix is behind the scenes because fewer people will complain about server downtime. " David _____________________________________________________ David Shanes 7535 Metropolitan Drive dshanes@personalogic.com San Diego, CA 92108 Database Developer (619) 220-5800 x228 PersonaLogic, Inc. (619) 220-5899 (fax) http://www.PersonaLogic.com -----Original Message----- From: Chris Dillon To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:47 AM Subject: Go Unix! > >Check out >http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncworld/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html > >Interesting Unix & NT comparison, leaning heavily towards the free unices, >with mention of both Linux and FreeBSD. FreeBSD came second of course.. >blah. > > >-- Chris Dillon >--- cdillon@inter-linc.net >--- cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us >/* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. > For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) > (http://www.freebsd.org) */ > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 14:32:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29359 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:32:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29330 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28099; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:32:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804232132.OAA28099@rah.star-gate.com> To: Jan Koum cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Linux Goes Postal In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:45:42 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <28096.893367138.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:32:18 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't care for Linux however I do care for OCR on FreeBSD so there is perhaps money to be made if we have OCR as demonstrated by TRW Financial Systems (they have deploy FreeBSD systems to do check processing) and this last linux thingie clearly suggests a business opportunity for FreeBSD & OCR. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 15:04:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05581 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:04:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05567 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19264; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:04:26 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA05004; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:04:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980424000424.46785@follo.net> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:04:24 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Amancio Hasty , Jan Koum Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Goes Postal References: <199804232132.OAA28099@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804232132.OAA28099@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 02:32:18PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 02:32:18PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > I don't care for Linux however I do care for OCR on FreeBSD so > there is perhaps money to be made if we have OCR as demonstrated > by TRW Financial Systems (they have deploy FreeBSD systems to do > check processing) and this last linux thingie clearly suggests > a business opportunity for FreeBSD & OCR. I'll use this opportunity to remind people that NIST have a reference implementation & sample datasets for OCRing of hand-printed forms. It's available from them on request (they send you a CD with the reference software; when I got my copy, it included a slightly aged sample dataset. That was considered a 'bonus', so it might not come with it any longer.) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Apr 23 19:10:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05516 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05446 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.46]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA6910 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:13:22 +0500 Message-ID: <353FF469.794BDF32@asme.org> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:09:46 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I noticed this site has little mention of FreeBSD, and opinions are welcome: http://www.osnews.com/ kick'em ;-). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 01:51:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25735 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25725 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id KAA27368; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:51:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:51:36 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? References: <353FF469.794BDF32@asme.org> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 24 Apr 1998 10:51:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni"'s message of "Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:09:46 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 4 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What's a spare rime? ;) -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 02:09:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29253 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:09:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29242 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id LAA21236; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:08:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.co.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14112; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:10:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:10:10 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Pedro F. Giffuni" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24-Apr-98 Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > What's a spare rime? ;) According to my dictionary, the time which is not already allocated for any purposes. I wouldn't know, though :) /Marino > > -- > Noone else has a .sig like this one. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- Marino Ladavac Date: 24-Apr-98 Time: 11:08:31 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 07:59:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14037 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:59:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13367 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.32]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA7264; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:55:33 +0500 Message-ID: <3540A706.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:51:50 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? References: <353FF469.794BDF32@asme.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > What's a spare rime? ;) > I didn't have TIME to spell right ;-) Pedro. > -- > Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 08:46:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22401 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:46:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22396 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA01152; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:45:54 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <19980424184554.58391@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:45:54 +0300 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? References: <353FF469.794BDF32@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpu37j4n6x=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Fri=2C_Apr_24=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_10=3A51=3A34AM_+0200?= X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav , were spotted writing this on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 10:51:34AM +0200: > What's a spare rime? ;) Well, he probably misspelt 'spare rhyme'. So if you feel you have a few you could spare, please compose a sonnet about FreeBSD and send it there. Have a good one, Anatoly. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 09:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02510 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:55:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.inw.net (ns.inw.net [206.28.240.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02473 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mcneills@inw.net) Received: from mcneills (ke2ppp25.inw.net [207.2.107.66]) by ns.inw.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA22256 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:54:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mcneills (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:56:19 -0500 Message-ID: <002501bd6fa1$c7fac480$0200a8c0@Dell> Reply-To: "Dennis Reiter" From: "Dennis Reiter" To: Subject: Andreessen: Linux use growing Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:55:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2038.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2039.0 X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.5 Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From www.news.com : Netscape Communications' vice president of product development Marc Andreessen sees an economic shift on the horizon as freeware and Linux grow in popularity. He made his comments at the Massachusetts Software Council meeting in Boston today, saying that other than Windows NT, Linux is the only operating system currently gaining market share. Regards, Denny Reiter denny@kewanee.net ICQ # 823496 ------------------------------------------ FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 10:38:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08817 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08793 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:37:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00591; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804241734.KAA00591@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:22:59 -0000." <199804240622.XAA07872@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:34:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > IBM is technically competent in > most regards (brilliant in some, which is surprising; management tends to > fear brilliant things). Having been close to quite a lot of IBM hardware at levels I'm familiar with, I would perhaps cant that slightly and say that IBM often manage to bring to market products that have not had their technical excellence dulled by cost concerns. It's a pity that the result is a product that costs too much for what it effectively is. 8( -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 10:41:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09273 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09268 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA25072; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:41:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:41:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Anatoly Vorobey cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? In-Reply-To: <19980424184554.58391@techunix.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA09269 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > You, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav , were spotted writing this on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 10:51:34AM +0200: > > What's a spare rime? ;) > > Well, he probably misspelt 'spare rhyme'. So if you feel you > have a few you could spare, please compose a sonnet about > FreeBSD and send it there. Shall I compare thee to a crashing GUI? Thy kernel art more lovely and more temperate. Rough use doth shake the darling buds of Redmont And Windows NT hath all too short an uptime Sometime too oft the light on the hub doth glow And often then is Linux's monitor dimm'd And every hacker from work sometime declines By chance, or flamewars unchanging course untrimm'd But thy eternal stability shall not fade Nor lose posession of that power thou owest Nor shall MS brag thou wander'st in his shade, When in eternal branches to perfection thou growest So long as men can think or hands can type So long lives FreeBSD, and this gives life to thee. > Have a good one, > Anatoly. Sue me, I was bored, and I knew the original by heart ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 10:53:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12953 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12832 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22740; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:52:01 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02763; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:51:58 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199804241751.TAA02763@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Anatoly Vorobey cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:51:48 +0200 From: Mark Murray Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA12933 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > You, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav , were spotted writing this on Fri, Apr 24, 19 98 at 10:51:34AM +0200: > > What's a spare rime? ;) > > Well, he probably misspelt 'spare rhyme'. So if you feel you > have a few you could spare, please compose a sonnet about > FreeBSD and send it there. Satoshi has the Soul Rights (tm) here... M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 11:28:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23305 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:28:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23072 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (woostri-28.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.73.221]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id NAA24553; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:27:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01471; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804241826.NAA01471@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing To: mcneills@inw.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <002501bd6fa1$c7fac480$0200a8c0@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24 Apr, Dennis Reiter wrote: >>From www.news.com : > Netscape Communications' vice president of product development Marc Andreessen sees an economic shift on the horizon as freeware and > Linux grow in popularity. He made his comments at the Massachusetts Software Council meeting in Boston today, saying that other than > Windows NT, Linux is the only operating system currently gaining market share. Pardon the harsh language. But godamnit this shit pisses me off. Can't wait till I get some burning issues off my plate and am able get back into the foray, and work on some things to shove that attitude down their collective throats. Wish to hell that these Linux groupies would get their heads out of their asses and realise that the central issue is UNIX vs M$ no matter what flag the various UNIX versions fly. Sorry for the rant -- like hell I am ;-) Frank > Regards, > Denny Reiter > denny@kewanee.net > ICQ # 823496 > ------------------------------------------ > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. > See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 11:32:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24314 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24155 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23893 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:30:47 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02890 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:30:44 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199804241830.UAA02890@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A poor traveller... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:30:34 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi In about 2 months (or just under) I may be heading off to the good old U S of A to attend Usenix. I intend to take a bit of a vacation afterward, and would enjoy meeting some of my email aquaintances along the way. Problem: I am not rich, and our local currency translates very badly into US$, so If possible, I'd appreciate hints/suggestions for places to stay. I am not above mooching a bed from someone (if they'll have me) and I promise not to overstay my welcome. ;-) My intended length-of-stay is a few weeks from about halfway through June until {whenever my money runs out}/{8 weeks later} (whichever comes first). My intended itinerary begins in New Orleans on +- 13th June, and lasts for a week while Usenix happens. Afterward, I'm looking at something like (In no particular order): * A week in DC (I really want to see the museums). * A few days in Montana (I hear the mountains are beautiful) * A week with my brother in (Just north of Vanvouver, BC) (Yes, I know it is Canada). * Some time in San Francisco - I hear that comedy clubs can be good there - and meet the FreeBSD crowd there. Also drool at the bookshops. * I am told Portland Oregon is ggod - mebbe take a look there. * National parks in the region Yellowstone, Yosemite? * 2 days (max) in Vegas :-) (maybe) * Florida - 'Gator country - Eat me some Cajun shrimp. Hehehe! Other - National parks? I like animals and wide-open space. Suggestions? Florida - Space museum? Maybe. What else is famous for good food? Other museums? Disney(land|world). Dunno. Maybe. The air ticket(s) will not be too bad, it is the accomodation that is a killer, so I'd be grateful for any tips, hints, suggesions or offers. I can bring over some South African wine/brandy, Biltong, or whatever... :-) M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 13:17:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20223 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20209 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id NAA30148; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:17:19 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id NAA24012; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:16:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Frank Pawlak cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804241826.NAA01471@darkstar.connect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > Pardon the harsh language. But godamnit this shit pisses me off. Can't > wait till I get some burning issues off my plate and am able get back > into the foray, and work on some things to shove that attitude down > their collective throats. > > Wish to hell that these Linux groupies would get their heads out of > their asses and realise that the central issue is UNIX vs M$ no matter > what flag the various UNIX versions fly. Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. Mr. Andreesen's comments were not antigonistic toward everyone else. He was merely stating what he had observed. There is no purpose in being angry with him for not acknowledging other unices. If ever time I made a statement, the community at large accosted me for not knowing about "this, that and the other thing", then I would quit making any statements. Would you all like people to point out your lack of knowledge every time you said something? Give Mr. Andreesen a break. Have fun, | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more... Jason Wells | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 14:11:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02141 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02068 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kashyyyk-2-54.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.131.182]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id QAA08075; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:10:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02784; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:10:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804242110.QAA02784@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:10:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing To: jcwells@u.washington.edu cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 24 Apr, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > >> Pardon the harsh language. But godamnit this shit pisses me off. Can't >> wait till I get some burning issues off my plate and am able get back >> into the foray, and work on some things to shove that attitude down >> their collective throats. >> >> Wish to hell that these Linux groupies would get their heads out of >> their asses and realise that the central issue is UNIX vs M$ no matter >> what flag the various UNIX versions fly. > > Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the > most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. I agree, Linux is the most visable. However, there is a very large segment of the Linux community that would be very happy if we were to fall off of the free software radar screen. It is those folks that stir my ire. And, it is for the purpose of raising our visability that I am willing to work on. > > Mr. Andreesen's comments were not antigonistic toward everyone else. He > was merely stating what he had observed. There is no purpose in being > angry with him for not acknowledging other unices. My anger is not directed toward him. Nor do I agree that he suffers from a lack of knowledge, especially about the existance of FreeBSD. His company has a browser that runs on FreeBSD, which by the way is always listed in the development directories rather than in the shipping directory on their ftp site. This indicates to me at least that it does not rank on a par with their Linux product. It gives the appearance that the FreeBSD browser remains as unfinished business compared to the Linux version. But this is nit picking... I agree that Linux can lead the effort, no problem there, but to state that it is the only alternative to NT jerks my chain the wrong way. In my opinion we suffer from a visability problem and the sooner we can correct that the better. We clearly have a better server platform than NT will ever be, if for no other reason than we don't carry any of Dave Cuttler's baggage. Now there is some flame bait for ya all :-) Andreesen is doing what every other good capitalist would, he is playing to the largest numbers. It is not a matter of me cutting him some slack, as much as it is that I'm a fiery person by nature. And when something that I am passionate about doesn't get the recognition it deserves the flames tend to burn hot. Frank > > If ever time I made a statement, the community at large accosted me for > not knowing about "this, that and the other thing", then I would quit > making any statements. > > Would you all like people to point out your lack of knowledge every time > you said something? Give Mr. Andreesen a break. > > Have fun, | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more... > Jason Wells | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 14:12:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02504 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02307 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03835; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242111.OAA03835@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:16:01 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3831.893452295.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:11:35 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nope , andreesen is at fault here and some one should politely point out to him that yes we do exist and that there is a lot of sinergy going on between the free unices. My take on this situation is that if don't complaint he probably feels that we don't mind if are not mentioned . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 14:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03983 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03959 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03911; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242116.OAA03911@rah.star-gate.com> To: Frank Pawlak cc: mcneills@inw.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:26:53 CDT." <199804241826.NAA01471@darkstar.connect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3908.893452598.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:16:38 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Somehow , if we have to start shifting the energy that the FreeBSD mailing lists excerts on chatting and take out in the open . We need to chat more with the public at large. Brett Glass is a good PointMan so just go wherever he points. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 14:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05428 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05289 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03964; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242129.OAA03964@rah.star-gate.com> To: Frank Pawlak cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:10:39 CDT." <199804242110.QAA02784@darkstar.connect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3961.893453391.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:29:51 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think is high time that we start complaining to Netscape about the development status of the netscap browsers for freebsd . Specially since we have a very stable distribution compared to linux which leads me to believe that they are bias towards linux and if we can't manage to break the chain we will always be delegated to second status because *we* don't take the steps to be known. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 14:43:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06990 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06982 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA07047; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:41:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804242141.HAA07047@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804242129.OAA03964@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 24, 98 02:29:51 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:41:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > I think is high time that we start complaining to Netscape about > the development status of the netscap browsers for freebsd . > Specially since we have a very stable distribution compared > to linux which leads me to believe that they are bias towards > linux and if we can't manage to break the chain we will always > be delegated to second status because *we* don't take the steps > to be known. Netscape won't be making any money out of a FreeBSD browser so it will never be supported by them. And now that mozilla.org has been formed, it's up to FreeBSD people to contribute to that. Any negative mail you choose to send to either Netscape or mozilla.org will undermine other (private) mail in the last week trying to improve the communication with FreeBSD.org. I can understand the emotion that people have, but I wish you would all cool down before you give outsiders the impression that we're all so hot headed and intolerant. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 15:58:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20024 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:58:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19989 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04277; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242257.PAA04277@rah.star-gate.com> To: John Birrell cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:41:38 +1000." <199804242141.HAA07047@cimlogic.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4274.893458650.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:57:30 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Any negative mail you choose to send to either Netscape or mozilla.org >I can understand the emotion that people have, but I wish you would >all cool down before you give outsiders the impression that we're all so >hot headed and intolerant. Perhaps we can do both . Can I post your response and my mail to mozilla.org? Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:06:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21427 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:06:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21335 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA07879; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:04:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804242304.JAA07879@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804242257.PAA04277@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 24, 98 03:57:30 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:04:52 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > >Any negative mail you choose to send to either Netscape or mozilla.org > > >I can understand the emotion that people have, but I wish you would > >all cool down before you give outsiders the impression that we're all so > >hot headed and intolerant. > > Perhaps we can do both . Can I post your response and my mail to > mozilla.org? No. Please don't do either. Please put your energy into improving Mozilla on FreeBSD. Unless we do that, we have no credibility in the eyes of mozilla.org. Their attitude is that there is a Unix version of Mozilla, not a Linux one or a FreeBSD one. By persuing the "but what about FreeBSD?!" chanting, you are *reinforcing* their opinion of BSD. Please don't fan the flames. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:27:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24745 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:27:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24723 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04396; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242326.QAA04396@rah.star-gate.com> To: John Birrell cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:04:52 +1000." <199804242304.JAA07879@cimlogic.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4393.893460409.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:26:49 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look , we *need* both short temper posters and a very calm an reasonable posters. About six months ago, if memory does not fail me a netscape developer attended the SF Users Meeting and not to my surprised was full ill of ill conceived ideas about freebsd and the reason being is that the "wild eyed crazy linux hordes" saw an opportunity and they took it. The netscape developer listed his main concerns and one by one we addressed them. All except the thorny issue of proper elf support .Interestingly the tempers ran very high when it came to freebsd elf supporting issues. I left and I only attended the SFUG meeting which Julian's company sponsor . The netscape developer walked away infuriated an shortly there after the netscape browser for freebsd came into existence. The moral of the story? We *need* to get involved with outside companies such as netscape. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25912 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25898 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA08093; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:32:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804242332.JAA08093@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804242326.QAA04396@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Apr 24, 98 04:26:49 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:32:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > The moral of the story? We *need* to get involved with outside companies > such as netscape. Yes, and Netscape has made the bold move to release it's source code through mozilla.org. Support that. Go out an tell _other_ people about FreeBSD. You are preaching to the converted and making us look like children. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26813 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:38:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26780 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.33]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA8471; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:41:13 +0500 Message-ID: <35412238.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:37:28 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804242129.OAA03964@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I suspect that everything we do to improve Mozilla will be credited to the "Linux development model", so I agree with Amancio in one thing: we should complain. OTOH the navigator is unimportant, there's no money there anymore. I think someone should open netscape's eyes to the bazillion bucks they are loosing by not reselling an enhanced version of FreeBSD with their server and all the other products. They need a platform they can exploit commercially and GNU-Linsux can't give them all we can. There's much to win in FreeBSD and the risk is really low. My $0.02 Pedro. Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I think is high time that we start complaining to Netscape about > the development status of the netscap browsers for freebsd . > Specially since we have a very stable distribution compared > to linux which leads me to believe that they are bias towards > linux and if we can't manage to break the chain we will always > be delegated to second status because *we* don't take the steps > to be known. > > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:45:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28016 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27996 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA08131; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:44:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804242344.JAA08131@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <35412238.41C67EA6@asme.org> from "Pedro F. Giffuni" at "Apr 24, 98 06:37:28 pm" To: giffunip@asme.org (Pedro F. Giffuni) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:44:12 +1000 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > I suspect that everything we do to improve Mozilla will be credited to > the "Linux development model" The development model that they are about to use is very similar to the FreeBSD development model. CVS, online sources, areas of resonsibility with commit access... -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:48:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28421 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28408 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id QAA31902; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:48:17 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id QAA24718; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: John Birrell cc: Amancio Hasty , fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804242332.JAA08093@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please trim me out of the CC's on this thread. Have fun, | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more... Jason Wells | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 16:54:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29368 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29353 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04535; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804242354.QAA04535@rah.star-gate.com> To: John Birrell cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:32:25 +1000." <199804242332.JAA08093@cimlogic.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4532.893462062.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:54:22 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >people about FreeBSD. You are preaching to the converted and making >us look like children. Sorry John. I am preaching out there about FreeBSD and yes we are toddlers when it comes to spreading the word about FreeBSD. Best Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 17:00:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00158 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keaggy.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00145 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by keaggy.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26828; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:57:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: Amancio Hasty cc: John Birrell , fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804242326.QAA04396@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Look , we *need* both short temper posters and a very calm an > reasonable posters. About six months ago, if memory does not > fail me a netscape developer attended the SF Users Meeting and > not to my surprised was full ill of ill conceived ideas about freebsd > and the reason being is that the "wild eyed crazy linux hordes" > saw an opportunity and they took it. The netscape developer > listed his main concerns and one by one we addressed them. > All except the thorny issue of proper elf support .Interestingly the > tempers ran very high when it came to freebsd elf supporting issues. > I left and I only attended the SFUG meeting which Julian's company sponsor . > The netscape developer walked away infuriated an shortly there after > the netscape browser for freebsd came into existence. > > The moral of the story? We *need* to get involved with outside companies > such as netscape. That entire interaction had _absolutely nothing_ to do with the FreeBSD port of Navigator coming into existence. Don't attribute the ranting of FreeBSD users as having had any influence in this case. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 17:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01762 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01647 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.33]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA8521; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:08:00 +0500 Message-ID: <3541287C.167EB0E7@asme.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:04:12 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Birrell CC: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804242344.JAA08131@cimlogic.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In "the Linux development model" the development model part is not important; the key point is that every enhancement will be tributed to Linux. Just like the problems people have distinguishing between Linux (the kernel) and the FSF utilities (the rest of the system): many people tend believe that the FSF utilites were written by Linus and his "selected" friends for Linux. No one seems to remember that the GNU project is a completely different beast... FreeBSD..ah you mean the thing like Linux? This is the most harmful phrase I've ever heard for FreeBSD. Believe me, in some years people will not want to hear about Linux, just as people will not want to hear about M$ RSN. FreeBSD would be pushed to the trashcan if we don't make the differences clear right away. BTW, I don't think we should be rude on Andreessen..after all he is not saying lies..Linux is more POPULAR, we know which is more powerful. Pedro. John Birrell wrote: > > Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > I suspect that everything we do to improve Mozilla will be credited to > > the "Linux development model" > > The development model that they are about to use is very similar to the > FreeBSD development model. CVS, online sources, areas of resonsibility > with commit access... > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 17:10:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03876 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:10:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03726 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04654; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804250009.RAA04654@rah.star-gate.com> To: Jason Evans cc: Amancio Hasty , John Birrell , fpawlak@execpc.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:57:37 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4651.893462992.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:09:53 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, it was a happy to coincidence . Lets see if the netscape developer steps in and can tells us what motivated him to release the netscape browser for FreeBSD. As far as I can recollect it was a single developer responsible for the port and it appeared that he was acting alone. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 20:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26683 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (wumpus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26676 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wumpus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id NAA18156 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:00:39 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:00:37 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: converting help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After preaching the many benefits of FreeBSD as a development platform, as well as an all-round os I have succesfully (well almost) converted a fellow compsci friend of mine. One of the saving graces was the fact that freebsd can run linux binaries, as well as showing him just how funky xwindows can look with a bit of tweaking. Anyway, the question is this. What can he use to partition his hdd (fat32) without requiring backing up the entire disk? He has decided none the less to back it up, but for future reference, what *free* applications are out there that can do this? I saw a mailing list message about fipsb which supposedly is a hacked up fips which supports fat32, are there any other apps available? Last thing, there doesn't appear to be any mention in the freebsd FAQ (thought there may be in the install docs), perhaps one should be put up? thanks, Nicholas Brawn -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 21:34:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04112 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04107 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id VAA06685 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:34:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BUY YOUR NEW CAR OR TRUCK FOR $200 OVER INVOICE!! In-Reply-To: <199802041943BAA12133@post.nlh.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 roy87%mail@abc.be wrote: >BUY YOUR NEW CAR OR TRUCK FOR $200 OVER INVOICE!! >We have started a "Fleet-tail" department and are selling new Nissan cars and trucks, and used everything, at ridiculously low prices. For instance: [spam erased] > >Jeffrey E. Lavigne Fleet Manager and Internet Coordinator >Aurora Nissan 14005 Aurora Ave. No., Seattle, WA 98133 >800/810-1215 206/363-6300 salesperson@earthlink.net > It is an 800 number. I just left a message for their general manager after having a long talk with another sales manager. I suggest you all do to. Lets all make our little part of the Internet better. -- yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Apr 24 22:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12749 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12741 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:58:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA14595 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014593; Fri Apr 24 22:57:58 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA16854 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:57:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199804250557.WAA16854@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: NT article To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:57:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't subscribe to -chat, so this may have been seen already, but here's a good article on UNIX vs. NT .. http://www.ncworldmag.com/ncw-04-1998/ncw-04-nextten.html?rh -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 02:00:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29233 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow21.verinet.com [199.45.181.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29227 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19328 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:02:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:02:20 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804250902.DAA19328@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Want to promote FreeBSD on your spare rime? In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Sometime too oft the light on the hub doth glow You mean its not supposed to be bright red all the time? I'll have to have a talk with our network people. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 02:13:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00709 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow21.verinet.com [199.45.181.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00704 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19373 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:15:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:15:04 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804250915.DAA19373@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the > most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Support it along side *BSD, and run what you want. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 02:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02324 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02239 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04054; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804250922.CAA04054@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: allen campbell cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:15:04 MDT." <199804250915.DAA19373@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:22:47 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the > > most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. > > The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Support it along side > *BSD, and run what you want. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Yes, it is true that linux is at the forefront and that perhaps there are lessons to be learned on how are they doing it . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 02:24:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02460 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02450 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id CAA09808 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:24:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804250915.DAA19373@const.> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Agreed. We better have Netscape which supports Linux and free source then have MicroSoft which supports NT and hates Unix. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." Linux -- Window95 of the Unix world. On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, allen campbell wrote: >> Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the >> most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. > >The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Support it along side >*BSD, and run what you want. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 05:22:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA19126 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19120 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15016; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804251220.FAA15016@implode.root.com> To: Amancio Hasty cc: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:22:47 PDT." <199804250922.CAA04054@rah.star-gate.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> > Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the >> > most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. >> >> The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Support it along side >> *BSD, and run what you want. > >Yes, it is true that linux is at the forefront and that perhaps there >are lessons to be learned on how are they doing it . Food for thought: Linux started a little more than 2 years before we did. Growth of both OS's has been exponential, doubling about every year. For the past 5 years or so, Linux was estimated to have about 5 times as many users as FreeBSD; in the past year that estimated ratio has decreased to about 4 times, apparantly not because growth of FreeBSD has accelerated, but because Linux growth has decelerated. Evidence of this is in the WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware Linux where growth has slowed from exponential to linear. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 06:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22164 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (toshok@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22158 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toshok@Hungry.COM) Received: (from toshok@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA27543; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:02:15 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804242304.JAA07879@cimlogic.com.au> <199804242326.QAA04396@rah.star-gate.com> From: Christoph Toshok Date: 25 Apr 1998 06:02:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com's message of 24 Apr 1998 16:29:20 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) writes: > > Look , we *need* both short temper posters and a very calm an > reasonable posters. About six months ago, if memory does not > fail me a netscape developer attended the SF Users Meeting and > not to my surprised was full ill of ill conceived ideas about freebsd > and the reason being is that the "wild eyed crazy linux hordes" > saw an opportunity and they took it. The netscape developer > listed his main concerns and one by one we addressed them. > All except the thorny issue of proper elf support .Interestingly the > tempers ran very high when it came to freebsd elf supporting issues. > I left and I only attended the SFUG meeting which Julian's company sponsor . > The netscape developer walked away infuriated an shortly there after > the netscape browser for freebsd came into existence. just out of curiosity, who was this "netscape developer"? I never knew of anyone else at netscape that was following freebsd that closely until after I did the port. christoph To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 06:09:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22871 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (toshok@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22866 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:09:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toshok@Hungry.COM) Received: (from toshok@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id GAA27876; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:09:19 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804250009.RAA04654@rah.star-gate.com> From: Christoph Toshok Date: 25 Apr 1998 06:09:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com's message of 24 Apr 1998 17:13:25 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) writes: > > Well, it was a happy to coincidence . Lets see if the netscape developer > steps in and can tells us what motivated him to release the netscape > browser for FreeBSD. As far as I can recollect it was a single developer > responsible for the port and it appeared that he was acting alone. yeah, it was me :) I worked alone. got a pc for home to do netscape work on. i run freebsd on everything else, so I installed it there as well. port was done in a day or two. then i had what i wanted -- a native freebsd version (so I didn't have to use the bsdi or linux versions). told the build/release guys and they got another pc at netscape. I installed freebsd on it, and it was added to the release builds. The only reason linux has a status other than "development" is because netscape gets money for it. we don't get OEM money for the freebsd version, so it'll probably never move out of the development directory. I myself don't mind this one bit -- it crashes so much less than the irix or solaris versions of the navigator, which is odd, considering that's what most developers at netscape use. christoph To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 07:32:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28033 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:32:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27997 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.41]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA8922; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:35:00 +0500 Message-ID: <3541F3B4.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:31:16 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804251220.FAA15016@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Extrapolating a bit, this means that we have as many, or probably more, users that any single Linux distribution! OTOH maybe Slackware and other Linuxes are having a really bad moment. Pedro. David Greenman wrote: > > >> > Linux is in the forefront of the free software crusade. Linux is the > >> > most visible. We should all cheer the success of Linux. > >> > >> The Linux tide is raising all Unix boats. Support it along side > >> *BSD, and run what you want. > > > >Yes, it is true that linux is at the forefront and that perhaps there > >are lessons to be learned on how are they doing it . > > Food for thought: Linux started a little more than 2 years before we did. > Growth of both OS's has been exponential, doubling about every year. For > the past 5 years or so, Linux was estimated to have about 5 times as many > users as FreeBSD; in the past year that estimated ratio has decreased to > about 4 times, apparantly not because growth of FreeBSD has accelerated, > but because Linux growth has decelerated. Evidence of this is in the > WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware Linux where growth has slowed from > exponential to linear. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 07:42:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29173 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29150 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-90.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.90]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA54264 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:42:11 GMT Message-ID: <3541F5E1.373CF86A@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:40:33 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A name, please! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As many of you know, we are going to mount a FreeBSD+Apache effort to challenge the SPECweb96 (http://www.specbench.org) benchmark on June 26-28. We're going to hold it in Berkeley and make it a real media circus. History of BSD, the Freeware Movement, etc., etc., etc. We'll get national exposure for it, and we'll create some of our own. What the event will be is basically a publicly staged run of the benchmark, with big-screen videos and live 'net feeds and the whole 9 yds. We'll have a 10' high "thermometer" that will visibly show the results in lights as our numbers climb. The goal of the project is exposure and positive press for FreeBSD in particular and Apache and other freeware in general. It is not going to be a 'bash Microsoft' or 'bash Linux' or anything else; we'll take the high road. The press will make comparisons and grind their own axen for us. Our goal is to legitimize FreeBSD in the public's mind, and they're ripe for it because they hate MS and they've heard about this Linux thingie and now it's time to show them where the real true power of freeware lies. I need a catchy name for the event. SuperPowerFreewareFest doesn't quite do it... --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 08:20:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03270 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03233 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA10992; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:19:52 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:21:53 GMT Message-ID: <3541fe7c.660073@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199804251220.FAA15016@implode.root.com> In-Reply-To: <199804251220.FAA15016@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA03243 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >Linux growth has decelerated. Only at Walnut Creek. >Evidence of this is in the WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware >Linux where growth has slowed from exponential to linear. Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 08:21:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03580 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nyef.res.cmu.edu (qmailr@NYEF.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.88.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA03526 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu) Received: (qmail 6979 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Apr 1998 15:21:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19980425112137.44382@nyef.res.cmu.edu> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:21:37 -0400 From: Marca Registrada To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ncb05@uow.edu.au Subject: Re: converting help Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, ncb05@uow.edu.au References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicholas Charles Brawn on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 01:00:37PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoting Nicholas Charles Brawn (ncb05@uow.edu.au): > After preaching the many benefits of FreeBSD as a development platform, as > well as an all-round os I have succesfully (well almost) converted a > fellow compsci friend of mine. One of the saving graces was the fact that > freebsd can run linux binaries, as well as showing him just how funky > xwindows can look with a bit of tweaking. > Great! I get many comments myself when people see my screen "Whoa, what OS? Linux?", "Close, FreeBSD", "Hmm, whassat", "....." Greatest comment I ever got after saying "FreeBSD", was "Better" ;) The only thing that I can see existing to resize FAT32 is Partition Magic (at least, it's the only other repartitioner I know of. It's commercial, so it also has probably kept up with the latest M$ trends. Yup, just checked the webpage, it does it. -- - All we hear is internet gaagaa, internet googoo, internet gaagaa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 09:54:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15881 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15872 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24254; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199804251653.KAA24254@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1.329 (Beta) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:53:34 -0600 To: dwilde1@ibm.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: A name, please! In-Reply-To: <3541F5E1.373CF86A@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Great Web Crawl? (Naaah, sounds slow.) The Web Shooter Shootout? Web Free-For-All? --Brett At 07:40 AM 4/25/98 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: >As many of you know, we are going to mount a FreeBSD+Apache effort to >challenge the SPECweb96 (http://www.specbench.org) benchmark on June >26-28. We're going to hold it in Berkeley and make it a real media >circus. History of BSD, the Freeware Movement, etc., etc., etc. We'll >get national exposure for it, and we'll create some of our own. What the >event will be is basically a publicly staged run of the benchmark, with >big-screen videos and live 'net feeds and the whole 9 yds. We'll have a >10' high "thermometer" that will visibly show the results in lights as >our numbers climb. > >The goal of the project is exposure and positive press for FreeBSD in >particular and Apache and other freeware in general. It is not going to >be a 'bash Microsoft' or 'bash Linux' or anything else; we'll take the >high road. The press will make comparisons and grind their own axen for >us. Our goal is to legitimize FreeBSD in the public's mind, and they're >ripe for it because they hate MS and they've heard about this Linux >thingie and now it's time to show them where the real true power of >freeware lies. > >I need a catchy name for the event. SuperPowerFreewareFest doesn't quite >do it... > >--> Don > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:02:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16664 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16584; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08816; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:59:21 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19980425185920.A8244@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:59:20 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: John Birrell , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Mail-Followup-To: John Birrell , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <35412238.41C67EA6@asme.org> <199804242344.JAA08131@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199804242344.JAA08131@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:44:12AM +1000 X-Mutt-References: <199804242344.JAA08131@cimlogic.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, [cc'd to -advocacy, please trim responses as appropriate] On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:44:12AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > I suspect that everything we do to improve Mozilla will be credited to > > the "Linux development model" > > The development model that they are about to use is very similar to the > FreeBSD development model. CVS, online sources, areas of responsibility > with commit access... I don't know about anyone else here, but I've been following (speed reading :) some of the mozilla.org mailing lists, and my impression of their project is that it is going to take them at least a few months to settle into a development model. There is still a lot of worship of people @netscape.com, (much like FreeBSD does with -core ;), and there are big problems between the Linux and Windows groups. The Linux guys want a 'killer app' and the Windows guys want IE4. I would really like to see them 'encouraged' into a FreeBSD model. I think that the importance of mozilla.org lies in publicity, not in it becoming a 'killer app'. The project has a very high media status, and will attract more companies to look into open source software. If they develop a fanatical Linux type structure then it will make people weary, and if they just try to emulate M$, then people would rather go straight to Bill. But if they see a level headed, mature organisation, with committed people and a bossiness like manner (which I believe FreeBSD has most of the time ;), then companies will be willing to forge ties (and Netscape might not can the project). I'm not sure what I could do to help. John, you say there are behind the scenes communications. Are these to do with helping them set up CVS, etc? My wish is that FreeBSD would leverage (now there's a nice marketing word :) their existing worldwide mirrors to make an 'instant' worldwide mozilla.org (ie cvsup.za.mozilla.org, etc), by making pointers in mozilla.org's DNS to freebsd.org's and getting the FreeBSD mirror sites to mirror Mozilla (via CVS and FTP tarballs of the source and binaries). We could do this quickly and it wouldn't consume much resources (not as much as say the distfiles or packages). We could also help them set up GNATS, www mirrors, cvsweb interfaces, and other infrastructure to help them. FreeBSD's mirror infrastructure is something that none of the Linux distributions can offer, although we must not stop them from using other mirror sites and especially from weaning themselves off our infrastructure. As for advocacy, I've found in my short life that the best way to make friends is to give without asking in return. If they want to thank us for the help then that is up to them, but if they don't then we don't help them so much. I think the current netscape people within mozilla.org are clever enough to know that. If we go with "you can have my toy, but only if you promise to be my friend" blackmail, then it will put them off. We could ask them after doing it, and it is working, if they wouldn't mind making a joint press release. We could also ask for a FreeBSD developer(s) to be given access to their CVS tree to be responsible for the FreeBSD version of Mozilla. And in the future when we politely ask Netscape why the FreeBSD version of Communicator is not officially supported we'd get a much friendlier response. Just my 2c, -Jeremy PS. I think that a FreeBSD-Mozilla CVS tree should still be maintained (on bento), so that FreeBSD developers who want to work on Mozilla can coordinate/test their work before submitting it back to mozilla.org. -- .sig.gz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:03:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16852 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16847 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09603; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804251703.KAA09603@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dg@root.com cc: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 PDT." <199804251220.FAA15016@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:03:07 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi David Tnks for the pointer Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:24:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19048 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19036 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09778; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804251724.KAA09778@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Christoph Toshok cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "25 Apr 1998 06:02:15 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:24:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) writes: > > > > > Look , we *need* both short temper posters and a very calm an > > reasonable posters. About six months ago, if memory does not > > fail me a netscape developer attended the SF Users Meeting and > > not to my surprised was full ill of ill conceived ideas about freebsd > > and the reason being is that the "wild eyed crazy linux hordes" > > saw an opportunity and they took it. The netscape developer > > listed his main concerns and one by one we addressed them. > > All except the thorny issue of proper elf support .Interestingly the > > tempers ran very high when it came to freebsd elf supporting issues. > > I left and I only attended the SFUG meeting which Julian's company sponsor . > > The netscape developer walked away infuriated an shortly there after > > the netscape browser for freebsd came into existence. > > just out of curiosity, who was this "netscape developer"? I never > knew of anyone else at netscape that was following freebsd that > closely until after I did the port. > > christoph Hi Christoph, First a million tnks for the netscape port!! Sorry , I can't remember the name of the developer who I met at SFUG :( Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:34:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20258 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20244 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.40]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA9178 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:37:32 +0500 Message-ID: <35421E82.41C67EA6@asme.org> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:33:54 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804251724.KAA09778@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ugh..check the mozilla.org site, netscape has been sued for the most stupid reasons anyone can think of...guess who's behind this... I bet it's part of the stategy depicted in the "makes you wonder" thread. Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:45:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21488 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21481 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yT90s-0006I2-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:45:22 +0200 Subject: apacheweek.com on licensing issues To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:45:22 +0200 (SAT) X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Johann Visagie Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The often very level-headed people at Apache Week use some interesting wording in the latest version of their online newsletter, to be found at: http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/98-04-24 I quote: "Performance Computing contains an article about The Apache HTTP Server. This article treats Apache seriously, and gives a farirly realistic assessment of its strengths and (particularly for Windows) weaknesses. It does however describe Apache code as being under the GPL license, where as in fact Apache is under a license much closer to the less restrictive FreeBSD license. For example, the Apache license allows for commercial use of the code in products which are not themselves available as source-code, subject to an "advertising" clause." Note the "less restrictive". That should catch the eye of a few Apache users, one would hope. The article they link to also refers to Linux and FreeBSD in the same breath, several times. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 10:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22176 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22165 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11660; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:47:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <3541fe7c.660073@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Apr 25, 98 03:21:53 pm" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:47:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700, David Greenman > wrote: > > >Linux growth has decelerated. > > Only at Walnut Creek. > > >Evidence of this is in the WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware > >Linux where growth has slowed from exponential to linear. > > Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its > place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on > Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. > I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate of increase in growth is decreasing. (Remember derivatives, in high school? :-)). There is intelligence between the various Linux suppliers, and I suspect that DG knows such info. That is probably why the Linux crew is getting *more* aggressive and not less, and more self-assurred. The growth is flattening, and business models based upon exponential growth are very different than flat growth or (like Microsoft) saturated market. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 11:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24332 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24181 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09922; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804251759.KAA09922@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:40:33 PDT." <3541F5E1.373CF86A@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:59:51 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Berkeley Stronghold: Wouldn't it be nice to see a fort surrounded by Win X indians dressed in suits shooting arrows at Fort BSD .. Unix Golden Gate -- we can have a logo of the SF Golden Gate disappearing into the stars BSD StarGate --- Would be real nice to see a Win XX user starting from a crowded polluted city go thru BSD gate and land on a nice location perhaps a beach with flocking birds (freedom and expansion) and utter: "What a rush !" Aquarius -- This can be a nice sixties theme complete with mpeg movies about how people changed society back then . We can even bring back the sixties peace and love logo to signify world unity to bring unix to the mass market Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:04:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29322 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29310 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:04:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25350; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:03:09 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:05:10 GMT Message-ID: <35432f5d.444084@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> In-Reply-To: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA29318 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:47:57 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson" wrote: >I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate >of increase in growth is decreasing ... There is intelligence between >the various Linux suppliers, and I suspect that DG knows such info. I did not see him post it. >That is probably why the Linux crew is getting *more* aggressive and >not less, and more self-assurred. The growth is flattening Besides Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, I have not heard any evidence to support this. While I have your attention, I found a BSDI source license at yard sale prices and decided to performance test it (2.1 and 3.0) against FreeBSD -current. I was surprised that my disk benchmark was about 5% faster with BSDI, even compared against the latest FreeBSD -current. And their NFS leaves FreeBSD in the dust. It's nearly as fast as a disk to disk copy on a single machine, and CPU consumption is lower. When all is quiet, BSDI running TOP shows 100% idle on a 486, and on that same machine, I've never seen better than 99.6% idle on FreeBSD. I wonder what they did differently to achieve that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29481 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29473 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-32.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.32]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA70062; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:06:21 GMT Message-ID: <354229B8.48145715@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:21:44 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! References: <199804251653.KAA24254@lariat.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > The Great Web Crawl? (Naaah, sounds slow.) The Web Shooter Shootout? > Web Free-For-All? The last has _some_ possibilities... :\ Remember, this first one isn't a shootout, that's the Challenge. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:06:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29529 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29482 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-32.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.32]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA62162; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:06:24 GMT Message-ID: <35422B12.B9AA91D6@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:27:30 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! References: <199804251759.KAA09922@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Berkeley Stronghold: Wouldn't it be nice to see a fort surrounded by > Win X indians dressed in suits shooting arrows > at Fort BSD .. I like your imagery. Not very Politically Correct, though... > Unix Golden Gate -- we can have a logo of the SF Golden Gate disappearing > into the stars > Berkeley imagery, not SF. > BSD StarGate --- Would be real nice to see a Win XX user starting from > a crowded polluted city go thru BSD gate and land on > a nice location perhaps a beach > with flocking birds (freedom and expansion) and utter: > "What a rush !" Gawd, Amancio, what HAVE you been smoking on this vacation of yours??? again, great imagery, I like the bird theme. > Aquarius -- This can be a nice sixties theme complete with mpeg movies > about how people changed society back then . We can even > bring back the sixties peace and love logo to signify > world unity to bring unix to the mass market Don't want to confuse the two, although the connotation of world unity and benefit through free software is an important one. I like that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00768 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00729 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09593; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:10:44 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01616; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:10:43 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199804251910.VAA01616@greenpeace.grondar.za> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:10:42 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don Wilde wrote: > I need a catchy name for the event. SuperPowerFreewareFest doesn't quite > do it... Little Bighorn, 1998. Didn't the Apaches kick Custer's butt? M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:18:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02616 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:18:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02601 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:18:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-32.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.32]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20284; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:18:20 GMT Message-ID: <354236E0.657C0DAA@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:17:52 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Murray CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! References: <199804251910.VAA01616@greenpeace.grondar.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Murray wrote: > > Don Wilde wrote: > > I need a catchy name for the event. SuperPowerFreewareFest doesn't quite > > do it... > > Little Bighorn, 1998. > > Didn't the Apaches kick Custer's butt? > I'm tempted, despite the non-PC bs. Hmmmm.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03335 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03233 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:21:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-32.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.32]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA38820; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:20:33 GMT Message-ID: <35423765.E262C80B@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:20:05 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Kelly CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing References: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> <35432f5d.444084@mail.cetlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Kelly wrote: > While I have your attention, I found a BSDI source license at yard > sale prices and decided to performance test it (2.1 and 3.0) against > FreeBSD -current. I was surprised that my disk benchmark was about 5% > faster with BSDI, even compared against the latest FreeBSD -current. > > And their NFS leaves FreeBSD in the dust. It's nearly as fast as a > disk to disk copy on a single machine, and CPU consumption is lower. > > When all is quiet, BSDI running TOP shows 100% idle on a 486, and on > that same machine, I've never seen better than 99.6% idle on FreeBSD. > I wonder what they did differently to achieve that. > synch or asynch disks writes? Linux seems faster too until you equalize it. --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 12:29:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05209 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:29:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05197 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10828; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804251929.MAA10828@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dwilde1@ibm.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:27:30 PDT." <35422B12.B9AA91D6@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:29:34 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Don, Just kicking back and relaxing --- will try to send you guys mail from a remote beach in Puerto Rico 8) ----- Yeah, it is kind of hard to come up with villains without offending someone in the globe so we invent a new ultra vicious villains : o Redmonites powerful termites which can eat away at BSD Fort and we can show people where to buy FreeBSD Spray bottles to clean those nasty Redmonite infested areas. Heck lets make it sanitory: o BSDex : Industrial strenght window cleaner -- you wipe out your dirty and cluttered win95 window and out it comes a beautiful BSD backdrop. Cheers, Amancio > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > Berkeley Stronghold: Wouldn't it be nice to see a fort surrounded by > > Win X indians dressed in suits shooting arrows > > at Fort BSD .. > > I like your imagery. Not very Politically Correct, though... > > > Unix Golden Gate -- we can have a logo of the SF Golden Gate disappearing > > into the stars > > > > Berkeley imagery, not SF. > > > BSD StarGate --- Would be real nice to see a Win XX user starting from > > a crowded polluted city go thru BSD gate and land on > > a nice location perhaps a beach > > with flocking birds (freedom and expansion) and utter: > > "What a rush !" > > Gawd, Amancio, what HAVE you been smoking on this vacation of yours??? > again, great imagery, I like the bird theme. > > > Aquarius -- This can be a nice sixties theme complete with mpeg movies > > about how people changed society back then . We can even > > bring back the sixties peace and love logo to signify > > world unity to bring unix to the mass market > > Don't want to confuse the two, although the connotation of world unity > and benefit through free software is an important one. I like that. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 13:52:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15783 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:52:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15775 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12151; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804252052.PAA12151@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <35432f5d.444084@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Apr 25, 98 07:05:10 pm" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Besides Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, I have not heard any evidence > to support this. > > While I have your attention, I found a BSDI source license at yard > sale prices and decided to performance test it (2.1 and 3.0) against > FreeBSD -current. I was surprised that my disk benchmark was about 5% > faster with BSDI, even compared against the latest FreeBSD -current. > Raw disk performance differences (like IOZONE) shouldn't be all that important. There are other differences, like you might find that we *have* to do *less* disk I/O than they do, so the effect for end user performance, under load, that FreeBSD is faster. Note that it is possible for FreeBSD to be faster (larger MAXPHYS values), with the new SCSI code... That hasn't come to pass yet. Our latest/greatest IDE code, does allow for full (255*512) transfers now. > > And their NFS leaves FreeBSD in the dust. It's nearly as fast as a > disk to disk copy on a single machine, and CPU consumption is lower. > Doesn't surprise me. IMO, our (*BSD's) NFS needs work. There is a productization movement afoot to fix NFS. Below is the output of my iozone (NFS, between two -current machines), so I don't see how we are all that terrible in performance, but I don't trust our NFS very much... > > When all is quiet, BSDI running TOP shows 100% idle on a 486, and on > that same machine, I've never seen better than 99.6% idle on FreeBSD. > I wonder what they did differently to achieve that. > Our LL code is probably totally different, also we have a daemon that runs all of the time, sucking about that much CPU. John IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 1 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 256 records which are each 4096 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 1 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...0.218750 seconds Reading the file...0.015625 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4793490 bytes/second for writing the file 67108864 bytes/second for reading the file The test completed too quickly to give a good result You will get a more precise measure of this machine's performance by re-running IOZONE using the command: iozone 85 (i.e., file size = 85 megabytes) IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 1 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 128 records which are each 8192 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 1 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...0.210938 seconds Reading the file...0.007812 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4971026 bytes/second for writing the file 134217728 bytes/second for reading the file The test completed too quickly to give a good result You will get a more precise measure of this machine's performance by re-running IOZONE using the command: iozone 91 (i.e., file size = 91 megabytes) IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 1 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 64 records which are each 16384 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 1 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...0.250000 seconds Reading the file...0.007812 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4194304 bytes/second for writing the file 134217728 bytes/second for reading the file The test completed too quickly to give a good result You will get a more precise measure of this machine's performance by re-running IOZONE using the command: iozone 77 (i.e., file size = 77 megabytes) IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 1 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 16 records which are each 65536 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 1 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...0.226562 seconds Reading the file...0.015625 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4628197 bytes/second for writing the file 67108864 bytes/second for reading the file The test completed too quickly to give a good result You will get a more precise measure of this machine's performance by re-running IOZONE using the command: iozone 82 (i.e., file size = 82 megabytes) IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 32 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 4096 records which are each 8192 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 32 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...10.664062 seconds Reading the file...0.609375 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 3146496 bytes/second for writing the file 55063683 bytes/second for reading the file IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 128 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 16384 records which are each 8192 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 128 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...30.359375 seconds Reading the file...2.382812 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4420964 bytes/second for writing the file 56327439 bytes/second for reading the file IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 128 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 16384 records which are each 8192 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 128 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...32.117188 seconds Reading the file...2.351562 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 4179000 bytes/second for writing the file 57075977 bytes/second for reading the file IOZONE: Performance Test of Sequential File I/O -- V2.01 (10/21/94) By Bill Norcott Operating System: FreeBSD 2.x -- using fsync() Send comments to: b_norcott@xway.com IOZONE writes a 256 Megabyte sequential file consisting of 32768 records which are each 8192 bytes in length. It then reads the file. It prints the bytes-per-second rate at which the computer can read and write files. Writing the 256 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...79.187500 seconds Reading the file...55.210938 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 3389871 bytes/second for writing the file 4861997 bytes/second for reading the file To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 14:24:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20575 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6518.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20531 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA05988; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:21:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:21:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "John S. Dyson" cc: John Kelly , dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate > of increase in growth is decreasing. (Remember derivatives, in high > school? :-)). You mean I'm never going to use them again save for in freebsd-chat arguments? Dang, that sucks! ;-) -- Only two other people have a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 15:08:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26981 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26928 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22236; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804252206.PAA22236@implode.root.com> To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:21:53 GMT." <3541fe7c.660073@mail.cetlink.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:06:07 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>Evidence of this is in the WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware >>Linux where growth has slowed from exponential to linear. > >Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its >place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on >Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. The conclusion that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux is based on comments that Linus made regarding the size and growth estimates of Linux, not on anything that I think personally. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 15:17:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29497 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29487 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11341 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:16:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804252216.PAA11341@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fun Themes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:16:54 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 1. Oh what a difference those the OS makes , Oh what a difference ... First shot which should last for about 10 seconds: A big blue screen shaking with a WebOmeter barely going past 10 and the scale is 0 to 100 : sound track is the recording of a badly tuned VW bug complete with engine back fire We smootly blend in the next shot: A small screen which on the right lower bottom corner says: FreeBSD/Apache . The WebOmeter is pecked at 100 : sound track of a smooth humming jet engine. 2. Jordan dressed with a very stylish meditteranean robe with the wind blowing the robe facing the Bay standing solid on a hill extends his arms . on his right hand he has a wooden staff . The Bay opens up And all the Unix users start crossing to BSD Land from the despotic Window's land. 3. A lone BSD wolf on top of a mountain begins to howl to the sky : Owwwl And the herd of little white win95 sheeps at the bottom of the hill start shaking Hint: It is time for FreeBSD mpeg clips 8) Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 15:28:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02778 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:28:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02673; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22549; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804252225.PAA22549@implode.root.com> To: "John S. Dyson" cc: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:47:57 CDT." <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:25:15 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> >Evidence of this is in the WC CDROM sales figures for Slackware >> >Linux where growth has slowed from exponential to linear. >> >> Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its >> place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on >> Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. >> >I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate >of increase in growth is decreasing. (Remember derivatives, in high >school? :-)). I'm not saying that the size of Linux is decreasing, only that their growth rate is decreasing. I'm just passing on what I've heard/read Linus say about a year ago: that Linux growth was starting to flatten out a bit to what was starting to look more like linear than exponential. I suspect, but have no sales figures to back it up, that Redhat growth remains nearly year-to-year exponential, and that it is the deceleration of growth in other Linux variants that has made growth of Linux overall less than exponential. Actually, you can ignore what everyone has to say about growth of Linux, because noone really knows the answer to that. The same can be said about FreeBSD growth, for that matter. One more thing, if you really want to look at something interesting that we can perhaps build on, then look at the success of FreeBSD in Japan. There are 20 titles of FreeBSD books on the bookstore shelves and FreeBSD is considered to be at least as popular as Linux there, with an installed base estimated at more than 200,000 (this number comes from Japanese trade magazines). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 15:36:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04210 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04201 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id PAA12922; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:36:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Amancio Hasty cc: Christoph Toshok , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804251724.KAA09778@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think his name is Igor Sviridov. But dk@ua.net would know exactly as it was one of his friends. I don't know what exactly he does at netscape -- could be a developer though. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." Linux -- Window95 of the Unix world. On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: >> hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) writes: >> >> > >> > Look , we *need* both short temper posters and a very calm an >> > reasonable posters. About six months ago, if memory does not >> > fail me a netscape developer attended the SF Users Meeting and >> > not to my surprised was full ill of ill conceived ideas about freebsd >> > and the reason being is that the "wild eyed crazy linux hordes" >> > saw an opportunity and they took it. The netscape developer >> > listed his main concerns and one by one we addressed them. >> > All except the thorny issue of proper elf support .Interestingly the >> > tempers ran very high when it came to freebsd elf supporting issues. >> > I left and I only attended the SFUG meeting which Julian's company sponsor . >> > The netscape developer walked away infuriated an shortly there after >> > the netscape browser for freebsd came into existence. >> >> just out of curiosity, who was this "netscape developer"? I never >> knew of anyone else at netscape that was following freebsd that >> closely until after I did the port. >> >> christoph > >Hi Christoph, > >First a million tnks for the netscape port!! > >Sorry , I can't remember the name of the developer who I met at SFUG :( > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 15:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05123 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05115 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id PAA13161; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:39:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: "John S. Dyson" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Andreessen: Linux use growing In-Reply-To: <199804251747.MAA11660@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: >> On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:20:42 -0700, David Greenman >> Interest in Slackware has waned. Redhat and Debian have taken its >> place. Concluding that FreeBSD is growing faster than Linux, based on >> Slackware sales at Walnut Creek, seems to be wishful thinking. >> >I don't think that DG is saying that Linux is shrinking, but the rate >of increase in growth is decreasing. (Remember derivatives, in high >school? :-)). Argh.. thanks for reminding me. I have a midterm next which which involves Iterated integrals, triple integrals of more then 3 variables and double integral in polar coordinates.. And I though was going to enjoy this weekend. :) -- Yan > >John > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 18:26:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20618 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20537 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@ibm.net) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-79-230.ca.us.ibm.net [32.100.79.230]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA87874; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:25:52 GMT Message-ID: <35428B1B.CD238E2B@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:17:15 -0700 From: Don Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fun Themes References: <199804252216.PAA11341@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > Hint: It is time for FreeBSD mpeg clips 8) > > Amancio Okay, so get back from Puerto Rico, buddy. Bossman Jordan SAID we do FreeBSD instead of sex... YOU'RE the video guru around here, remember?????! --> Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 23:22:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25772 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:22:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic31.pm01.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25743 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA25583; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980425232236.46254@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:22:36 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: dwilde1@ibm.net Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199804251653.KAA24254@lariat.lariat.org> <354229B8.48145715@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <354229B8.48145715@ibm.net>; from Don Wilde on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 11:21:44AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 11:21:44AM -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: > > > > The Great Web Crawl? (Naaah, sounds slow.) The Web Shooter Shootout? > > Web Free-For-All? > > The last has _some_ possibilities... :\ > > Remember, this first one isn't a shootout, that's the Challenge. How about "Shoot out at Fort Apache" Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Apr 25 23:27:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26820 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic31.pm01.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26742 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA25598; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980425232639.36059@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:26:39 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Mark Murray Cc: dwilde1@ibm.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A name, please! Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199804251910.VAA01616@greenpeace.grondar.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199804251910.VAA01616@greenpeace.grondar.za>; from Mark Murray on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:10:42PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:10:42PM +0200, Mark Murray wrote: > Don Wilde wrote: > > I need a catchy name for the event. SuperPowerFreewareFest doesn't quite > > do it... > > Little Bighorn, 1998. > > Didn't the Apaches kick Custer's butt? > It was the Lokota who handed Gen. Custer his head. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message