From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 00:08:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03917 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:08:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03912 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:08:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22385; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981115000810.A22368@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:08:10 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Retail page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 00:10:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04167 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04162 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22408; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19981115001001.B22368@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:10:01 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of it's counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * This is a beta release. It is not perfect and will have a few bugs and flaws. If you find any please let us know. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spamers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 13:27:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03520 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m1-57-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03503 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA27263; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:25:38 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199811152125.XAA27263@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD finances In-Reply-To: <199811142256.OAA20023@root.com> from David Greenman at "Nov 14, 98 02:56:27 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:25:35 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Greenman wrote: > FreeBSD, Inc. does not produce FreeBSD. > The confusion you have comes from not seeing the subtle differences in > the various names that are being used. "The FreeBSD Project" refers to the > development effort that produces FreeBSD releases. It has a core team, is > not incorporated, and has no money whatsoever. "FreeBSD, Inc.", on the > other hand, is a for-profit company that manages the distribution of a > small amount of donations, produces no software or any other products, is > owned and operated by exactly one person (Jordan), and is accountable only > to him. In the circumstances, wouldn't "The FreeBSD Project" or "Individual members of the FreeBSD Project, and contributors" be preferable in this context? % dmesg | head -3 Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 13:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06633 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06628 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21110; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:53:32 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Nordier cc: dg@root.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD finances In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Nov 1998 23:25:35 +0200." <199811152125.XAA27263@ceia.nordier.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:53:32 -0800 Message-ID: <21106.911166812@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In the circumstances, wouldn't "The FreeBSD Project" or "Individual > members of the FreeBSD Project, and contributors" be preferable in this > context? I think this was worded thusly mostly for legal reasons. If we get into a copyright dispute, it's easier for a corporation to fight it than some rather more nebulous "project" organization. Not that I want to get into any, but that seemed to make sense when this issue was last raised. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 13:54:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06809 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06804 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:54:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29994; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:55:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981115135520.W28420@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:55:20 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Accidentally Discovered Spam Stopper References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 11:03:01PM -0800 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 11:03:01PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I found a cool way to minimize the annoyance that spam causes and it > requires minimal leg work. I haven't had spam in any of my "good" > mailboxes for a long time and it is purely by accident. > > My procmail recipes filter all of my mail to my ~/mail/Inbox' mailbox (and > a few other places) with a ^TO jcwells@u\.washington\.edu. Any remaining > mail that doesn't get filtered and goes to '/var/mail'. If you're already using procmail and want a spam stopper, you might try . s' pretty good; it catches 95% of my spam. Course, I wrote it, so it's probably a little better for me than it is for others. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 17:52:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00227 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:52:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00222 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:52:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10037; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:52:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811160152.RAA10037@root.com> To: Robert Nordier cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD finances In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Nov 1998 23:25:35 +0200." <199811152125.XAA27263@ceia.nordier.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:52:34 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> FreeBSD, Inc. does not produce FreeBSD. >> The confusion you have comes from not seeing the subtle differences in >> the various names that are being used. "The FreeBSD Project" refers to the >> development effort that produces FreeBSD releases. It has a core team, is >> not incorporated, and has no money whatsoever. "FreeBSD, Inc.", on the >> other hand, is a for-profit company that manages the distribution of a >> small amount of donations, produces no software or any other products, is >> owned and operated by exactly one person (Jordan), and is accountable only >> to him. > >In the circumstances, wouldn't "The FreeBSD Project" or "Individual >members of the FreeBSD Project, and contributors" be preferable in this >context? > >% dmesg | head -3 >Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. >Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. My only comment is that the FreeBSD Inc. copyright should never have been added to the output in the first place. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 20:00:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12921 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:00:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4040.ime.net [209.90.195.50]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id XAA05818 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:00:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981115225634.00af7c60@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:57:37 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Staroffice 5, OSS, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.sun.com/solaris/freesolaris.html If anyone hasn't seen yet, Staroffice Personal 5.0 is free as well as the new Solaris 7 Intel and Sparc for media+shipping. Is it just me or are a lot of people starting in on this "Lets replace Windows" hype? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 15 23:35:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02547 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:35:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02542 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:35:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA28552; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:35:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981116003338.04036e90@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:34:40 -0700 To: Drew Baxter , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Staroffice 5, OSS, etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981115225634.00af7c60@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org They're not just starting. They're serious about it. These people want Linux to assume the position that Windows has now, only more so.... They want it to become the only choice in FREE software, too. --Brett At 10:57 PM 11/15/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >Is it just me or are a lot of people starting in on this "Lets replace >Windows" hype? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 16 10:29:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11759 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11750 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4014.ime.net [209.90.195.24]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA06667; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:28:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981116132530.00993600@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:26:21 -0500 To: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Staroffice 5, OSS, etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981116003338.04036e90@127.0.0.1> References: <4.1.19981115225634.00af7c60@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:34 AM 11/16/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >They're not just starting. They're serious about it. These people want >Linux to assume the position that Windows has now, only more so.... They >want it to become the only choice in FREE software, too. > >--Brett > >At 10:57 PM 11/15/98 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >>Is it just me or are a lot of people starting in on this "Lets replace >>Windows" hype? > Well I can see it, and Staroffice is a nice product, as is Applixware. I'm partially ticked because I just bought Solaris 2.6, but I guess I'll live with it. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 16 10:31:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12051 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:31:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-200.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12045 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01598 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:31:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811161831.MAA01598@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: I'm going to like softupdates From: David Kelly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:31:21 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Upgraded to 3.0-current a couple of weeks ago. Have been poking around and playing. Still haven't done a proper cleanup of /etc. But did get around to enabling softupdates this morning. Curious to know if it does any good I ran "time cvs -q update -P -d" four times against /usr/src using /home/ncvs as the CVSROOT. Considering nothing was changing this is essentially a no-op operation. With only rc5des running (no X, no net connection) this took between 17:22 and 17:39 to complete each iteration. With softupdates on all but root, 11:31 to 11:37. System is a PPro166/512k OC'ed to 210 MHz. 64MB. Asus SC875 SCSI. IBM DCHS09W (9G, wide, fast-not-ultra). -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 09:31:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10889 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (h24-64-143-218.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.143.218] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10878 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Received: from wired (h24-64-143-197.mt.wave.shaw.ca [24.64.143.197] (may be forged)) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06543; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:31:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Message-Id: <199811171731.MAA06543@freedom.cybertouch.org> From: "Lanny Baron" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:29:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD Reply-to: beef@cybertouch.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Fellow FreeBSD'ers I am forwarding this message to the list for a reason. Why could the people involved below, recommend OUR system, FreeBSD??? As I am trying to get into setting up networks for small offices, its a shame I can't put this type of a letter right on my web site. (Although my site is not fully finished http://freedom.cybertouch.org) it would have been a big help. Some how the good name of FreeBSD must get out to the business community. Regards to all, Lanny Baron ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date sent: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:44:49 +1000 To: beef@cybertouch.org From: Richard Sharpe Subject: Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:54:45 +0000 (GMT) >From: Matthew Kirkwood >Subject: Re: flexfax: replacing an exchange fax server >Sender: owner-flexfax@celestial.com >To: Nico Kadel-Garcia >Cc: flexfax@sgi.com > >On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > >> > I'm helping someone to replace an NT box with >> > a RedHat system, and we're satisfied that we can >> > get Linux to do everything that his current dying >> > Small Business Server can, with the exception of >> > fax services. >> >> I've set this up on a consulting basis for several sites. Let me know >> if you need help. > >Thanks, > >> > His users work almost entirely from Outlook 98, >> > and send faxes by mailing word documents as >> > attachments to email addresses which look like >> > '[fax:NUMBER]' >> >> So far, so good. > >Apart from the Outlook bit :) > >> > It seems that Outlook then sends the document >> > through to Exchange which hands it to the fax service >> > for rendering and faxing. >> >> ***GACK***. Exchange is one of the most unreliable products >> known to modern computing, beaten for poor service only by >> its predecessor MSMail and a misbegotten product called >> "First Class" written for the Macintosh. > >And one of the reasons that the bloke wants a Linux server :) > >> > I was wondering if anyone had done something like >> > this before; I suspect that it could be done quite >> > simply with some VBA at the client side, but he >> > doesn't want to have to alter the clients and >> > especially his users way of working. >> >> It can be done with built-in tools for HylaFAX and >> a modern Linux system. Incoming mail goes to "fax@linux-server", >> and includes an extra header for "Fax Recipient:" > >Yep, that's what I suggested. > >> > Ideally, there would be a Linux word->tiff renderer >> > available, but I suspect that to be a pipe-dream. >> >> Definitely. There are some tools for Word document translation, but >> what you really want to work with is Postscript output. Instead of >> sending the documents as Word documents, the easiest solution is to >> print them to the Fax server. The Star Office suite >> (www.stardivision.com) may be able to translate Word documents >> directly to Postscript: you might write to them and ask. > >That's a good idea - thanks. > >> The same functionality may be available via "WHFC", which uses >> *printing* to send a job to the fax server instead of email. This >> raises security issues of protecting your fax server, but no greater >> than those of letting email be sent through your fax server. > >I've been trying to convince him that this is the answer, but he's >(unreasonably, IMHO) convinced that this will require significant >changes in his Outlook/Access application. (In a past life, I did >a disturbing amount of VB/VBA, and I'm not convinced of the truth of >this one.) > >Thanks - I can now safely claim that the hf experts say I'm right >and that he should let me to a half-hour client hack instead of a >six-month-plus Word document renderer... :) > >Matthew. > > Regards ------- Richard Sharpe, sharpe@ns.aus.com, NIC-Handle:RJS96 NS Computer Software and Services P/L, Ph: +61-8-8281-0063, FAX: +61-8-8250-2080, Samba, Linux, Apache, Digital UNIX, AIX, Netscape, Stronghold, C, ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 11:25:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28318 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-67.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28303 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07976 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:49:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811171749.LAA07976@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD In-reply-to: Message from "Lanny Baron" of "Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:29:14 EST." <199811171731.MAA06543@freedom.cybertouch.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:49:57 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Lanny Baron" writes: > Hello Fellow FreeBSD'ers > > I am forwarding this message to the list for a reason. Why > could the people involved below, recommend OUR system, > FreeBSD??? As I am trying to get into setting up networks for > small offices, its a shame I can't put this type of a letter right on > my web site. (Although my site is not fully finished > http://freedom.cybertouch.org) it would have been a big help. Some > how the good name of FreeBSD must get out to the business > community. Having scanned thru the rest of the deleted message body, I wonder why they are going thru all the effort to email a fax. What if they could PRINT the fax? Off the top of my head I don't know how the PC user would specify the fax number to be dialed. Otherwise Hylafax could be used as a print filter. By printing a fax one could avoid the hassle of file format translation. Let the PC convert to Postscript, Ghostscript to convert to something faxable. Is there a network dialog/query protocol for Windows? Could a remote printer open a dialog box on the user's screen to query for title page information and fax number? Or does this have to happen in the local Windows printer driver? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 13:09:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14848 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14802 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15879; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:51:55 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981117205155.32674@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:51:55 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wanted: mirror program that can 'push' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, Does anyone know of a decent FTP mirroring program that can push changes rather than pull them? The website I maintain on my ISP can only be updated by FTP, I can't telnet in. It would be nice to be able to do % cd /path/to/local/copy/of/site % update and go make a cup of coffee while it works out what files on the remote site are out of sync, and updates them. All the mirroring programs I've seen so far assume that you want to update the host that's running the program, pulling changes down, rather than pushing them out. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 13:15:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:15:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (pinsoft.internet.co.nz [202.37.141.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16117 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Received: from kiwi.pinnacle.co.nz (kiwi.pinnacle.co.nz [202.37.163.2]) by kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15645 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:02 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:02 +1300 (NZDT) From: Jonathan Chen To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199811171749.LAA07976@n4hhe.ampr.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, David Kelly wrote: > "Lanny Baron" writes: > > Hello Fellow FreeBSD'ers > > > > I am forwarding this message to the list for a reason. Why > > could the people involved below, recommend OUR system, > > FreeBSD??? As I am trying to get into setting up networks for > > small offices, its a shame I can't put this type of a letter right on > > my web site. (Although my site is not fully finished > > http://freedom.cybertouch.org) it would have been a big help. Some > > how the good name of FreeBSD must get out to the business > > community. > > Having scanned thru the rest of the deleted message body, I wonder why > they are going thru all the effort to email a fax. What if they could > PRINT the fax? Off the top of my head I don't know how the PC user would > specify the fax number to be dialed. Otherwise Hylafax could be used as > a print filter. HylaFAX's WHFC is installed as a print-filter, and it queries the user for a number whenever anything is printed to it; so it would be ideal for this situation. -- Jonathan Chen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 13:30:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18340 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Genesis.Denninger.Net (kdhome-2.pr.mcs.net [205.164.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18327 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Genesis.Denninger.Net) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Genesis.Denninger.Net (8.9.1/8.8.2) id PAA18682; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:30:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19981117153000.A18675@Denninger.Net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:30:00 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Jonathan Chen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD References: <199811171749.LAA07976@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jonathan Chen on Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:10:02AM +1300 Organization: Karl's Sushi and Packet Smashers X-Die-Spammers: Spammers will be LARTed and the remains fed to my cat Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I can't even BEGIN to tell you how cool this looks. I'm going to check it out. Right now I have a Winblows "all in one" HP OfficeJet. It SUCKS. Among other things, the software blows up Win98 CONSISTENTLY in ways that wedge the processor (oh Joy!). I recently replaced an NT server with FreeBSD+Samba. If I can replace THIS piece of shit with something that works, I then need only a $200 fax machine for "paper fax" needs - or a cheap SCSI scanner - and I'm in completely in business. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization. On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:10:02AM +1300, Jonathan Chen wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, David Kelly wrote: > > > "Lanny Baron" writes: > > > Hello Fellow FreeBSD'ers > > > > > > I am forwarding this message to the list for a reason. Why > > > could the people involved below, recommend OUR system, > > > FreeBSD??? As I am trying to get into setting up networks for > > > small offices, its a shame I can't put this type of a letter right on > > > my web site. (Although my site is not fully finished > > > http://freedom.cybertouch.org) it would have been a big help. Some > > > how the good name of FreeBSD must get out to the business > > > community. > > > > Having scanned thru the rest of the deleted message body, I wonder why > > they are going thru all the effort to email a fax. What if they could > > PRINT the fax? Off the top of my head I don't know how the PC user would > > specify the fax number to be dialed. Otherwise Hylafax could be used as > > a print filter. > > HylaFAX's WHFC is installed as a print-filter, and it queries the > user for a number whenever anything is printed to it; so it would be > ideal for this situation. > -- > Jonathan Chen > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Experience is a hard teacher > because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 13:38:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19620 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:38:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19591 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:38:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4024.ime.net [209.90.195.34]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id QAA08121; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:37:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981117163138.00a836c0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:35:16 -0500 To: Karl Denninger , Jonathan Chen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19981117153000.A18675@Denninger.Net> References: <199811171749.LAA07976@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:30 PM 11/17/98 -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: >I can't even BEGIN to tell you how cool this looks. > >I'm going to check it out. Right now I have a Winblows "all in one" HP >OfficeJet. It SUCKS. Among other things, the software blows up Win98 >CONSISTENTLY in ways that wedge the processor (oh Joy!). On an lighter note. I nixed Win98 because of its bad handling of memory. Would appear that it has a chronic memory leak that caused my machine to turn into a 486-66 within an hour. Ironically my PII-333 at work is running FreeBSD incredibly. Installing Win95 again has fixed the problem, unfortunately still in the tainted eyes of Microshaft. >I recently replaced an NT server with FreeBSD+Samba. If I can replace >THIS piece of shit with something that works, I then need only a $200 >fax machine for "paper fax" needs - or a cheap SCSI scanner - and I'm in >completely in business. I want to replace an NT Workstation with FreeBSD. But none of Netscapes servers will run on it.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 15:20:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07804 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07787 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4043.ime.net [209.90.195.53]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA08245 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:20:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19981117181333.00b371a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:18:01 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Multiinterface Routing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Thought bout posting this to -hackers, but it isn't really a BUG I don't think..] I'm using Gated right now in an attempt to route from an ed0 interface out to the tun0 interface. They use two different IP sets. As it goes though, I have no clue about gated, so it isn't helping matters any. The Network Struct goes like this: ed0 - 208.220.45.192 - Netmask 255.255.255.224 tun0 - 204.254.98.33 - Netmask 255.255.255.255 All traffic goes through ED0 and is gatewayed to tun0 via gated. It's severely slow, and many errors show up doing route monitor. Is there an efficient way to do this with routed ro something a little easier to deal with? Thanks, --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 16:36:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22082 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22077 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA38448 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:22 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA16937 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:36:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Sun Wins in Java Dispute Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sun won an injunction against MS forcing MS to fix it's broke Java implementation in all software using Java. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28938,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 17:09:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25737 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:09:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25732 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:09:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kfurge@worldnet.att.net) From: kfurge@worldnet.att.net Received: from phaser.indy.net ([12.75.221.53]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19981118010904.FZVJ27129@phaser.indy.net>; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:09:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (kfurge@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phaser.indy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21021; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:08:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:08:50 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kfurge@kcfhome.my.domain Reply-To: kfurge@worldnet.att.net To: Lanny Baron cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (Fwd) Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199811171731.MAA06543@freedom.cybertouch.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have done nearly *exactly* what this guy wants to do in two small offices that I take care of. I have been putting off documenting my recipe, but perhaps now I should get off of my duff. In a nutshell, here's how the whole system works: Setup: 1. Hylafax/Samba/Ghostscript/IMAP4 setup and running on server. 2. Ghostview configured on PC to handle PS attachments to MIME mails. 3. Netscape 4.5 setup on PC to read the FAX user's mailbox on the server. Receiving a fax: 1. Hylafax receives a fax, packages it in postscript and attaches it to an e-mail which is delivered to the FAX user. This part is easy. 2. Client uses netscape to open the FAX mailbox. All incoming faxes have the fax number and sender id on subject line. Clicking on the attachment allows viewing with ghostview. 3. Administrator organizes incoming faxes however they chose using IMAP folders. Sending a fax: 1. Client prints to one of two fax printers. The first generates a fax with no cover sheet, the second auto-generates a cover sheet. The printer configured on the client is simply a generic postscript printer. The "Digital Colormate PS" is my favorite. 2. The "printer" on the server is actually a clever perl script that starts by connecting back to the client's machine. 3. The client machine is running a little program I discovered called "Respond" which sits in the tool tray waiting for a connection. When connected to, it pops up and asks for sender, receiver, fax number, etc. 4. The perl script digests the response, and queues the fax for delivery. It also sends a MIME e-mail with a postscript attachment of the queued fax to the FAX user. This allows resending of the fax if necessary. 5. The user is kept up-to-date about the status of the fax with periodic winpopup messages. Events are also logged to a file which is shared under samba. This method has some unique benefits. First, all faxes are treated as standard e-mails. Resending or forwarding a fax is as easy as reprinting it. Built upon Hylafax, it should scale well (though I have never used it in an environment with more than 5-6 active faxers). IMAP as the mail server insures that faxes can be administered from any authorized workstation. Faxes are always stored on the server and benefit from large HDD space and regular backups, etc. If you're interested in the details for your web site, let me know and I can create a step-by-step how-to. - K.C. On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > Hello Fellow FreeBSD'ers > > I am forwarding this message to the list for a reason. Why > could the people involved below, recommend OUR system, > FreeBSD??? As I am trying to get into setting up networks for > small offices, its a shame I can't put this type of a letter right on > my web site. (Although my site is not fully finished > http://freedom.cybertouch.org) it would have been a big help. Some > how the good name of FreeBSD must get out to the business > community. > > Regards to all, > Lanny Baron > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date sent: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:44:49 +1000 > To: beef@cybertouch.org > From: Richard Sharpe > Subject: Info on replacing Windows NT with Linux or FreeBSD > > >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:54:45 +0000 (GMT) > >From: Matthew Kirkwood > >Subject: Re: flexfax: replacing an exchange fax server > >Sender: owner-flexfax@celestial.com > >To: Nico Kadel-Garcia > >Cc: flexfax@sgi.com > > > >On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: > > > >> > I'm helping someone to replace an NT box with > >> > a RedHat system, and we're satisfied that we can > >> > get Linux to do everything that his current dying > >> > Small Business Server can, with the exception of > >> > fax services. > >> > >> I've set this up on a consulting basis for several sites. Let me know > >> if you need help. > > > >Thanks, > > > >> > His users work almost entirely from Outlook 98, > >> > and send faxes by mailing word documents as > >> > attachments to email addresses which look like > >> > '[fax:NUMBER]' > >> > >> So far, so good. > > > >Apart from the Outlook bit :) > > > >> > It seems that Outlook then sends the document > >> > through to Exchange which hands it to the fax service > >> > for rendering and faxing. > >> > >> ***GACK***. Exchange is one of the most unreliable products > >> known to modern computing, beaten for poor service only by > >> its predecessor MSMail and a misbegotten product called > >> "First Class" written for the Macintosh. > > > >And one of the reasons that the bloke wants a Linux server :) > > > >> > I was wondering if anyone had done something like > >> > this before; I suspect that it could be done quite > >> > simply with some VBA at the client side, but he > >> > doesn't want to have to alter the clients and > >> > especially his users way of working. > >> > >> It can be done with built-in tools for HylaFAX and > >> a modern Linux system. Incoming mail goes to "fax@linux-server", > >> and includes an extra header for "Fax Recipient:" > > > >Yep, that's what I suggested. > > > >> > Ideally, there would be a Linux word->tiff renderer > >> > available, but I suspect that to be a pipe-dream. > >> > >> Definitely. There are some tools for Word document translation, but > >> what you really want to work with is Postscript output. Instead of > >> sending the documents as Word documents, the easiest solution is to > >> print them to the Fax server. The Star Office suite > >> (www.stardivision.com) may be able to translate Word documents > >> directly to Postscript: you might write to them and ask. > > > >That's a good idea - thanks. > > > >> The same functionality may be available via "WHFC", which uses > >> *printing* to send a job to the fax server instead of email. This > >> raises security issues of protecting your fax server, but no greater > >> than those of letting email be sent through your fax server. > > > >I've been trying to convince him that this is the answer, but he's > >(unreasonably, IMHO) convinced that this will require significant > >changes in his Outlook/Access application. (In a past life, I did > >a disturbing amount of VB/VBA, and I'm not convinced of the truth of > >this one.) > > > >Thanks - I can now safely claim that the hf experts say I'm right > >and that he should let me to a half-hour client hack instead of a > >six-month-plus Word document renderer... :) > > > >Matthew. > > > > > > Regards > ------- > Richard Sharpe, sharpe@ns.aus.com, NIC-Handle:RJS96 > NS Computer Software and Services P/L, > Ph: +61-8-8281-0063, FAX: +61-8-8250-2080, > Samba, Linux, Apache, Digital UNIX, AIX, Netscape, Stronghold, C, ... > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 17:17:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26827 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:17:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26822 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:17:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (D-128-95-141-75.dhcp2.washington.edu [128.95.141.75]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id RAA09805 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:17:01 -0800 Message-ID: <365220D5.5501379F@u.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:20:21 -0800 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Announcement: NewHoo to become directory.mozilla.org!] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BF605061275B56B91C8B94E3" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF605061275B56B91C8B94E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------BF605061275B56B91C8B94E3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: via tmail-4.1(5) for dmorrisn; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by bp13.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id QAA57544 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:08:26 -0800 Received: from happy.newhoo.com (host1.pbm.com [207.126.116.222]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id QAA10276 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:08:26 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by happy.newhoo.com id OAA29013; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:45:42 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:45:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199811172245.OAA29013@happy.newhoo.com> From: staff@newhoo.com (Rich Skrenta, NewHoo) To: dmorrisn@u.washington.edu Subject: Announcement: NewHoo to become directory.mozilla.org! Dear NewHoo editors, We have some really exciting news to announce -- NewHoo has joined Netscape, and will be moving to http://directory.mozilla.org/ We're happy to say that Netscape shares our vision of an open, community-built web directory. NewHoo was approached by several web portals who discussed possible partnerships or acquisitions. But we had the best feeling about Netscape -- they were very enthusiastic about our vision to build the biggest directory on the web, and NewHoo's community-editing approach fits well with their pioneering efforts to support the free software movement through Mozilla.org. The details: o NewHoo.com will move (largely unchanged) to http://directory.mozilla.org/ o The directory will be more open than before. In the spirit of open development, and fitting with the Mozilla ideals, we are creating a free use license to allow individuals and organizations to take advantage of and use copies of the directory that they can crawl, archive and reuse on their machines. The ability to do this was one of the key reasons for us to go with Netscape. o Netscape will make use of Open Directory data in their Netcenter web portal, but directory.mozilla.org will remain a separate site. o The additional resources of Netscape will allow us to better address bugs, support and new features. o With Netscape's backing, NewHoo will advance to being a premier web directory and search destination, visited by millions of users worldwide. NewHoo has been struggling against the titans of the search engine space, but, thanks to the editors, has achieved great success despite very modest resources. We recently crossed 100,000 sites in the directory. It is our goal to expand the Open Directory to be the best and largest human-edited web directory, and we firmly believe that the open editorial model is the only indexing method which can possibly scale to the size of the web. We strongly believe this is a positive move for NewHoo, the editors, and the site. Partnering with a company with the stature of Netscape means increased stability, traffic and recognition. We will have the time and resources to properly address support, performance and new feature issues. If you have any concerns about the change, please let us know at staff@newhoo.com and we will try to personally answer every email (although please be patient, as we will probably have quite a few messages to respond to). Thanks, -- Rich Skrenta & Bob Truel NewHoo --------------BF605061275B56B91C8B94E3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 17 21:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20217 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20212 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA13123; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:06:26 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA08158; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:06:17 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981118160616.D440@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:06:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Johann Visagie , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What's that machine? (was: Interesting: Microsoft tried to move Hotmail to NT and failed.) References: <3647B9E7.BCC59A27@airnet.net> <19981110155600.B499@freebie.lemis.com> <19981110095540.A1100@cityip.co.za> <19981111103444.N18183@freebie.lemis.com> <19981111103720.A3963@cityip.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981111103720.A3963@cityip.co.za>; from Johann Visagie on Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 10:37:20AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 11 November 1998 at 10:37:20 +0200, Johann Visagie wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 at 10:34 SAST, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tuesday, 10 November 1998 at 9:55:40 +0200, Johann Visagie wrote: >>> >>> Now the question, _how_ do they do it? They correctly identify my Web server >>> as running FreeBSD, and yet I didn't see any connections or attempted >>> connections, except for the expected "HEAD / HTTP/1.0" query to the httpd. >> >> Right. I saw this, too. They *don't* identify the operating system >> for my web server. >> >>> Let me dig deeper... >> >> Please do, and publish your results. > > My digging led me directly to "queso" (in the ports, category "net"). (I > _had_ heard of queso before, but its name escaped me when I made my posting > yesterday.) > > The outline of queso's methodology is succinctly described on its home page > at: http://www.apostols.org/projectz/queso/ > > Reading the above page, one can at least form a very clear picture as to how > the OS identification process works. However, there are a number of queso > gateways on the Web (such as the one at http://mailsearch.particle.net/), and > these seem to indicate that queso _can't_ identify the very same server that > Netcraft did as running FreeBSD. > > Errr... gosh. As I was typing the above I tried the gateway at > mailsearch.particle.net again, and whereas yesterday it said the machine ran > an unidentified OS, today it identifies it as "FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD". Interesting stuff. I've tried this out, and found the following about the root name servers: a.root-servers.net 198.41.0.4:53 * MacOS-8 (or unusual Solaris) b.root-servers.net 128.9.0.107:53 * Solaris 2.x c.root-servers.net 192.33.4.12:53 * Solaris 2.x d.root-servers.net 128.8.10.90:53 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD e.root-servers.net 192.203.230.10:53 *- Unknown OS, pleez update /usr/local/etc/queso.conf f.root-servers.net 192.5.5.241:53 * Berkeley: usually Digital Unix, OSF/1 V3.0, HP-UX 10.x g.root-servers.net 192.112.36.4:53 *- Unknown OS, pleez update /usr/local/etc/queso.conf h.root-servers.net 128.63.2.53:53 * MacOS-8 (or unusual Solaris) i.root-servers.net 192.36.148.17:53 * NetBSD 1.3.x j.root-servers.net 198.41.0.10:53 * MacOS-8 (or unusual Solaris) k.root-servers.net 193.0.14.129:53 * BSDi or IRIX l.root-servers.net 198.32.64.12:53 * Berkeley: usually SunOS 4.x, NexT, Annex m.root-servers.net 202.12.27.33:53 *- Firewall drops SYN pakets. I'd guess that all the MacOS 8s are really unusual Solarises. That still makes all the identifiable servers UNIX, and 5 out of 10 are BSD. No sign of Linux anywhere. Also, our local name servers seem to be FreeBSD, as they had told me: ns.telstra.net:53 203.50.0.137:53 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD ns1.telstra.net:53 139.130.4.5:53 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD I also tried it on the relay hosts I found in my maillog files. Here's the script if you want to try it: grep relay /var/log/maillog|sed 's:^.*relay=::; s/\.*,* .*$//; s/\(.*\)/ec -n "\1 "; queso \1:25/'|sort|uniq|sh There's a bit of junk in there, and the results definitely relate to the fact that I'm involved in the FreeBSD project, but I still find it interesting: MLIST-1.SP.CS.CMU.EDU 128.2.185.162:25 * Berkeley: Digital, HPUX, SunOs4, AIX3, OS/2 WARP-4, others... allegro.lemis.com 192.109.197.134:25 * Dead Host, Firewalled Port or Unassigned IP arena.mediainform.no 193.69.158.68:25 *- Firewalled host/port or network congestion awesome-f0.us.dell.com 143.166.12.131:25 * IRIX 6.x basil.acr.net.au 203.22.236.98:25 * Solaris 2.x caladan.tdx.co.uk 195.188.177.4:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD dragon.krdl.org.sg 137.132.247.20:25 *- Not Listen, try another port ednet1.orednet.org 159.121.170.2:25 * Berkeley: usually SunOS 4.x, NexT, Annex extensisnt.extensis.com 198.145.32.6:25 * Windoze 95/98/NT freeside.fc.net 207.170.70.2:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD hub.FreeBSD.ORG 204.216.27.18:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD krdl.org.sg 137.132.252.27:25 * Solaris 2.x listserv.islandnet.com 199.175.106.5:25 * Linux 1.3.xx, 2.0.0 to 2.0.34 mail.connexus.net.au 203.12.22.20:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD mail.fc.net 207.170.70.2:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD mail.mel.aone.net.au 203.12.176.157:25 * Solaris 2.x mail.plutotech.com 206.168.67.137:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD mail.polstra.com 206.213.73.130:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD mail.smith.net.au 203.38.152.97:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD mailhub.fokus.gmd.de 193.174.154.14:25 * Solaris 2.x mass-mx.pmm.mci.net 208.159.126.182:25 *- Unknown OS, pleez update /usr/local/etc/queso.conf newman.softweyr.com 204.68.178.33:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD nico.telstra.net 139.130.204.16:25 * Berkeley: usually SunOS 4.x, NexT, Annex phoenix.aye.net 206.185.8.134:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD phoenix.welearn.com.au 203.35.200.139:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD pop.onelist.com 209.207.164.31:25 * Linux 2.0.35 to 2.0.9999 :) postoffice.telstra.net 139.130.4.7:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD rodin.krdl.org.sg 137.132.252.27:25 * Solaris 2.x rtrwan160.accessone.com 206.213.115.74:25 *- Firewalled host/port or network congestion rvn-32-6.rs.extensis.com 198.145.32.6:25 * Windoze 95/98/NT sarip.sol.net:25 169.207.30.120:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD suebla.lnk.telstra.net 139.130.44.81:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD www.onelist.com 209.207.164.157:25 * Linux 2.0.35 to 2.0.9999 :) x.physics.usyd.edu.au 129.78.129.25:25 * FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD zamboni.mail.digex.net 204.91.99.98:25 *- Unknown OS, pleez update /usr/local/etc/queso.conf Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 01:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10336 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:56:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10314 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11730; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:56:08 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA01137; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:56:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981118105606.20373@follo.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:56:06 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Rogue Wave cross the line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rogue Wave has (at vice-president level) been supporting Microsoft's attempted destruction of Java: Also during the panel, Scot Wingo, a vice president at Microsoft ally RogueWave Software Inc., defended Microsoft's moves to modify Java to make it specific to the Windows platform. A lot of developers are only targeting the Windows platform, he said, and shouldn't have to sacrifice performance for the sake of portability he said. The quote is from the bottom of this webpage: http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/9811172java I've contacted them to tell that I won't be purchasing software from them again. If you should wish to do the same, the most appropriate address seems to be websales@roguewave.com. Feel free to forward this message; we now return you to your regularly scheduled off-topic discussion :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 05:36:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04247 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04240; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:36:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26056; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:35:55 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA01914; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:35:54 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981118143552.00024@follo.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:35:52 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: William McVey Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Would this make FreeBSD more secure? References: <199811180046.SAA23057@s07.sa.fedex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199811180046.SAA23057@s07.sa.fedex.com>; from William McVey on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 06:45:47PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This question seems to belong exclusively in -chat, so I'm sending the reply there (with Bcc to security). On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 06:45:47PM -0600, William McVey wrote: > I'm somewhat new on the security list. What does it take to get > changes decided on? Does something like this need 'general consensus > and running code' (ala IETF), is something like this voted on, or does > someone just go out and do it once they get convinced? It depends on the exact case. Anything requires running code to get done - otherwise it is not done :-) Otherwise, the rules are * Anybody can commit whatever they want - but it will be backed out (by them or somebody else) if there is general dislike of it. If somebody is difficult about backouts, they loose their commit privileges (this has not happened _ever_, AFAIK). * General consensus rules all * David Greenman is final arbiter no matter what * Guido van Rooij is Security Officer and rules supreme in all issues related to security I'm not quite sure of the hierarchy between the last three here, and I don't think anybody else really is, either - there have AFAIK never been an actual conflict :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 05:41:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA04838 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:41:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA04829 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) From: mike@seidata.com Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07037 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:40:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:40:44 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BIND 8 Doc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Regarding a recent BIND thread... For those who don't want to dl the BIND documentation (which is now apparently only available in tar.gz form from the ISC), www.seidata.com/~mike/bind holds ISC's official guide in HTML format. Including the ever-so-popular sample configuration, option definitions, and much more. ;) FWIW, -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 10:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17872 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17861 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:44:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25625 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:43:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:43:42 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Stanford Open Source Forum Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey Folks, I'm not on -chat right now so maybe this has been hashed out already, but I see this thing happening at Stanford and no mention of the *BSD types listed. If I was still in the area I'd definitely have to show up and see what's up, but no luck, it's a bit of a commute from here... http://news.freshmeat.net/readmore?f=stanford_forum [The "Stanford Open Source Forum", slated as an opportunity to get business types and free-software types in the same space, at the same time.] Happy trails, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 11:25:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23444 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:25:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23415 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:24:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.59.149]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA20BA; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:23:17 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:27:46 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brian Handy Subject: RE: Stanford Open Source Forum Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Nov-98 Brian Handy wrote: > Hey Folks, > > I'm not on -chat right now so maybe this has been hashed out already, but > I see this thing happening at Stanford and no mention of the *BSD types > listed. If I was still in the area I'd definitely have to show up and see > what's up, but no luck, it's a bit of a commute from here... > > http://news.freshmeat.net/readmore?f=stanford_forum Ick, ugly logo at the bottom ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl | Cum angelis et pueris, Junior Network/Security Specialist | fideles inveniamur *BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 14:09:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15756 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15747 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:09:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) id OAA23547; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:08:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981118140827.D11547@best.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:08:27 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Brian Handy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stanford Open Source Forum Mail-Followup-To: Brian Handy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Handy on Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:43:42AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:43:42AM -0700, Brian Handy wrote: > Hey Folks, > > I'm not on -chat right now so maybe this has been hashed out already, but > I see this thing happening at Stanford and no mention of the *BSD types > listed. If I was still in the area I'd definitely have to show up and see > what's up, but no luck, it's a bit of a commute from here... > > http://news.freshmeat.net/readmore?f=stanford_forum > > [The "Stanford Open Source Forum", slated as an opportunity to get > business types and free-software types in the same space, at the same > time.] > > > > Happy trails, > > Brian > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message I think they chose Thursday because they know that most of BSD folks will be in Berkeley for the McKusick's Unix class. :) -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 18 23:29:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22708 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22702 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul6.u.washington.edu (root@saul6.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.1]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA15302 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:28:59 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul6.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id XAA21761 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:28:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:28:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Diskless Workstations Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sometime ago I asked folks about NC's. Now I am back. Once again I am armed with just enough info to be dangerous. Would you recommend using diskless workstations? Would you rather be shot? I have read what the vendor's have to say but I would like to hear your advice. It seems that running diskless has a serious advantage of using the same disk space for all of the programs that all the users need. 100baseT can compete with UW-SCSI bit for bit on bandwidth. If wcarchive can push 747GB I can't see networking as being a bottle neck even with a large number of workstations. Administration is centralized, security is centralized, backup is centralized. (Do I sound like ncworldmag yet?) The only disadvantage that I can see is that the organization depends utterly on the network and the fileserver. I think that any organization that depends heavily on networking is stuck with this anyway. Any input is appreciated. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 19 22:24:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21494 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21478 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale.we.mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26884 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:23:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981119222844.006ba104@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:28:44 -0800 To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Diskless Workstations In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd love a Tutorial on it all. I would assume that the NC thing would be done with a bunch of X Terminals, but I don't know enough of X administration to figure out how to do it all. Especially, with the new networked hardware. Can you point me to any sites that has info on this subject? Thanks. Joey At 11:28 PM 11/18/98 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >Sometime ago I asked folks about NC's. Now I am back. Once again I am >armed with just enough info to be dangerous. > >Would you recommend using diskless workstations? Would you rather be shot? >I have read what the vendor's have to say but I would like to hear your >advice. > >It seems that running diskless has a serious advantage of using the same >disk space for all of the programs that all the users need. 100baseT can >compete with UW-SCSI bit for bit on bandwidth. If wcarchive can push 747GB >I can't see networking as being a bottle neck even with a large number of >workstations. Administration is centralized, security is centralized, >backup is centralized. (Do I sound like ncworldmag yet?) > >The only disadvantage that I can see is that the organization depends >utterly on the network and the fileserver. I think that any organization >that depends heavily on networking is stuck with this anyway. > >Any input is appreciated. > >Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering >Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 20 01:02:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08311 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:02:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (in-ruhr.ruhr.de [141.39.224.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08300 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:02:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bs@adimus.de) Received: (from admin@localhost) by mail.ruhrgebiet.individual.net (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA19330 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:00:38 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail by mx.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org id 0zglvl-000079-00; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:28:42 +0100 Received: from det.adimus.de(192.168.0.1) via SMTP by adimus.de, id smtpdeyG391; Fri Nov 20 09:28:32 1998 Received: from bs by det.adimus.de with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG id 0zglvb-0000rk-00; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:28:31 +0100 To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Diskless Workstations References: <3.0.1.32.19981119222844.006ba104@we.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benedikt Stockebrand Date: 20 Nov 1998 09:28:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net's message of "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:28:44 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 354 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gummibear@we.mediaone.net writes: > I'd love a Tutorial on it all. I would assume that the NC thing would be > done with a bunch of X Terminals, but I don't know enough of X > administration to figure out how to do it all. Especially, with the new > networked hardware. Can you point me to any sites that has info on this > subject? Thanks. As far as netbootable FreeBSD PeeCees are concerned I've written a note about it some time ago. It's supposed to cover a variety of platforms but so far I've only managed to check things out with FreeBSD. That's why I haven't made it publicly available yet. If you have any comments, suggestions or whatever to the text please send me a note. So long, Ben -- Benedikt Stockebrand, Dipl. inf. Adimus Beratungsgesellschaft für System- und Netzwerkadministration mbH & Co KG System Administration & Design, Universitätsstr. 142, 44799 Bochum IT Security, Remote System Mgmt Tel. (02 34) 971 971 -2, Fax -9 --- 8< --- How to boot Un*x from a Network Server

How to boot Un*x from a Network Server

Introduction

This text deals with the issue of setting up an assortment of Un*ces to boot from a server located on the same LAN. Many people consider diskless machines an anachronism, some marketing droids call them the ultimate solution to all administration problems and finally some people like me just prefer to stuff their disk server in a silenced room all the way down the hall.

This text starts with an introduction about the protocols used for network booting issues on a variety of platforms. Following it is another section organized by Un*x variants. For each variant we first describe its net boot mechanism and its particularities, then continue with the client side and finish with particularities if you want to run a server on that platform. This ordering should provide the most useful if you're setting up some clients together with an existing server. If you're starting from scratch I'd recommend to start with the server.

For purely educational purposes this text may be somewhat inadequate, but if you're looking for that sort of information you might prefer W. Richard Stevens, TCP/IP Illustrated, Vol. 1 and the assorted man pages of the systems in question.

Protocols

First we list the protocols used in conjunction with network-booted machines. We don't describe the protocols but just supply two lists for each, one of the platforms serving that protocol and another listing the platforms using them on the client side.

The fields holding a "S" indicate that the platform provides a server for the given protocol. A "C" marks the services needed by a client to boot across the network. Finally, a "(C)" entry indicates that the client can optionally use the protocol.

Platform RARP BOOTP BOOTPGW BOOTPARAMD TFTP NFS
FreeBSD S S, C S, (C) S S, C S, C

FreeBSD 2.2.6

Running a FreeBSD Client

How Things Work

The boot process with FreeBSD looks like this:
  • Start the boot ROM code for your network card.
  • Use BOOTP to find out the IP address and netmask.
  • Use TFTP to learn the root and swap file system location.
  • Read the kernel from the root file system via NFS.
  • Mount root and swap(?) file system via NFS.
  • Continue the boot process as usual.
As a consequence you need a BOOTP, TFTP and NFS server for a network boot.

Hardware Preparations: Making Your Network Card Boot

The first thing you have to do is to make your machine capable to boot from the net. There are two possibilities: You may equip your network card with a boot EPROM or you may stuff that EPROM data on a boot floppy. At the time of this writing supported network cards are 3c509 and (with some minor makefile tweaking) 3c503 cards and the NE2000 clones family. See the netboot(8) man page and /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/netboot/Makefile for details.

You find prebuilt rom images in /usr/mdec/nb{8390,3c509}.rom in case you don't want to roll your own in /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/netboot. Just put them in an EPROM, stuff it in your network card and be happy (hopefully, I haven't tried this myself).

If you rather want to use a boot floppy you can use DOS-style .COM files. You'll find them in the same place as the EPROM images but their filename suffix is .com instead of .rom. You can either place them on a DOS floppy and start them from DOS or use a specialized .COM file loader available from the Linux folks. Make your favorite search engine look for the comboot package.

Server Configurations

You'll find some additional information about the boot setup in the FreeBSD Handbook. Here's a all you need for a more minimal setup, though --- no need to try to be fancy until things basically work.

BOOTP
You need an entry in the BOOTPD config that looks at least something like this: snafu.adimus.de:\ :ha=00.00.1c.1e.0c.9b:\ :ip=192.168.47.11: They just match the hardware address with the IP address. Note that the hardware address must not be written with colons separating the bytes --- that's one of the problems using a cap-style data base file.

Additionally it may be necessary to add some of these tags:

:hn:\ :sm=255.255.255.0:\ :ds=192.168.47.:\ :ht=ether:\ :vm=rfc1048:\ The hn field makes the BOOTP server transmit the host name in its reply. This is pretty handy because the /etc/rc.network script uses this as the host name no matter what you put into /etc/rc.conf. As a consequence this allows you to use the same set of config files for a whole bunch of netboot clients.

The sm field sets the netmask for the IP address given. You may need this if you use subnets. The ds field defines the IP address of a name server. I haven't tried to use FQDNs instead of IP addresses in the assorted config files. Even if that worked out I'd feel pretty uncomfortable about it. The ht field defines the type of network hardware in use. Apparently 10 Mbit Ethernet is the default value, if you use anything else please see the bootptab(5) man page or equivalent or the latest Assigned Numbers RFC.

Finally, there are several BOOTP reply message formats. FreeBSD used the RFC1048-style one, so if your BOOTP server uses a different one by default you may have to set this explicitly.

TFTP
Next you need a file that holds additional configuration data. It is read via TFTP, so this file is usually placed in the /tftpboot directory by convention. Different to the notes in the FreeBSD Handbook a variety of names are checked in sequence, partly prefixed with a /tftpboot path, so you better stick with this convenciton. Just to be sure we go for the most specific one, which is freebsd.IP_ADDRESS_IN_DOTTED_QUAD in the /tftpboot directory, e.g. /tftpboot/freebsd.192.168.47.11 for the example above.

This file contains any of the assorted netboot commands necessary to make the machine boot. This is about all you need:

rootfs 192.168.47.1:/netboot/rootfs/snafu swapfs 192.168.47.1:/netboot/swapfs The meaning should be obvious, except maybe for the swap file entry, which is explained below.

Additionally it may be helpful to specify the host name of the client here:

hostname snafu.adimus.de This may help to recycle the same root file system for multiple machines. Then again, it may not.

WARNING: The documentation in netboot(8) suggests that these parameters can be passed with the BOOTP reply. This doesn't work, you do need the TFTP file.

NFS
Next you need to make the root file system for the client accessible via NFS. How to to so depends on the platform your server is running on, so take a look at the related section for this issue. Just one note, though: It is probably necessary to disable root UID mapping (aka. root squashing).

Building the Kernel

Now you'll need to build a kernel for a diskless configuration. Make sure it supports NFS file systems. And what's worse, don't forget to configure its hardware (IRQs, DMA and I/O addresses) properly.

There are a couple BOOTP-related kernel configuraiton options available. I haven't figured out what exactly they're good for, but here's the relevant excerpt from /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/LING:

# Kernel BOOTP support options BOOTP # Use BOOTP to obtain IP address/hostname options BOOTP_NFSROOT # NFS mount root filesystem using BOOTP info options "BOOTP_NFSV3" # Use NFS v3 to NFS mount root options BOOTP_COMPAT # Workaround for broken bootp daemons. Maybe they're some sort of help. Then again, maybe they're not.

Populating the Boot File System

Now you need to build a root file system for the machine. Take it from a "disky" installation, fix the config files in /etc and that should do. If you want to use the same root file system for both the server and client(s) you're best off making the hostname made available via the BOOTP or TFTP entries shown above. Then the hostname will be known to the machine before the /etc/rc* scripts are run. The /etc/rc.network script is smart enough to use that name instead of the one you've specified in /etc/rc.conf. Now if you're smart enough to use some `hostname -s` instead of an actual host name in the remainder of /etc/rc.conf you might well get away with a single set of config files.

Finally, you need to set up a swap file. This swap file is put in the directory specified in the TFTP-loaded file (/netboot/swapfs in our example above) and named swap.IP_ADDRESS_IN_DOTTED_QUAD, so in our example it would be /netboot/swapfs/swap.192.168.47.11. You need to create it manually using dd. Make sure it has the size you want to allocate for swap.

Open Questions

The netboot(8) documentation suggests that it is possible to boot a FreeBSD client machine solely via BOOTP and NFS, without actually using any TFTP. I assume that this would require some modifications (or just compile-time options I've missed?) to the netboot(8) code so the BOOTP values for the root and swap file system locations are used instead of the TFTP file contents.

Running a FreeBSD Server

rarpd

WARNING: I haven't tested the FreeBSD rarpd yet. I don't need it at this time, so I've just read the man page. Watch your butt here.

The FreeBSD RARP daemon is a standalone server and not run from inetd(8). It isn't configurable in /etc/rc.conf, you'll have to start it yourself somehwere.

It only answers requests for IP addresses that have a related file in /tftpboot unless you give it a -s flag. Unfortunately the file names searched don't match the naming convention used with the FreeBSD netboot(8) boot EPROM code.

Furthermore it only answers on a single interface as specified as argument unless you give it a -a flag.

It needs a BPF device, so make sure your kernel is configured for this.

According to the man page the FreeBSD rarpd reads all its information from the /etc/hosts and /etc/ethers files. While the ethernet configs support NIS the IP configs don't. I haven't checked this out (yet), but this seems a good deal of potential trouble. The /etc/ethers file just contains lines starting with the MAC address in hex with colons separating the octets, some whitespace and an FQDN (why on earth not an IP address?).

bootpd

The FreeBSD bootpd can be run either via inetd(8) and standalone. It detects this automatically, no options are needed (but available if you want to be sure). The configs are put in /etc/bootptab which is in a termcap(5)-style format. For a complete list of all available tags see the bootptab(5) man page. The most important are (from the man page): ha Host hardware address ip Host IP address sm Host subnet mask sa TFTP server address client should use hn Send client's hostname to client tc Table continuation (points to similar "template" host entry) Only the first two fields are mandatory, the hardware address (don't use colons between octets!) and the IP address. You may also need to set the subnet mask, too. Sending the hostname to the client may be extremely helpful if you want to use the same configs for a set of machines. And of course the tc tag may make things somewhat easier, too.

bootpgw

FreeBSD supports a gateway server for the BOOTP protocol. You run it with a single argument specifying the actual BOOTP server. For details, see the man page.

bootparamd

Yes, FreeBSD apparently has a SUN Solaris® style bootparamd. I haven't had a closer look at it, yet. The man page however is deceptively short.

tftpd

The FreeBSD tftpd is started by inetd. You'll find a (by default disabled) entry in /etc/inetd.conf. It specifies the /tftpboot directory as the base directory for all TFTP access. If you're using the FreeBSD netboot code you better stick with this convention---that's where the boot config files are searched for. Files are only served from this directory and its subdirectories. There are no config files except for that entry in /etc/inetd.conf.

NFS

See the notes on NFS in a Heterogeneous Un*x Environment for details on FreeBSD's implementation of NFS.

Acknowledgments

Special thanks to my fellow sysadmin Christoph Haas (ch@adimus.de) for helping me test things out and proofreading the FreeBSD side of this note.
Copyright 1998 Benedikt Stockebrand

Version info: $Id: netboot.html,v 1.1.1.1 1998/11/10 11:08:11 bs Exp $
Last modified: Tue Nov 10 12:01:58 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 20 14:31:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28720 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:31:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ida.net (mail.ida.net [204.228.203.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28699 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from muck@ida.net) Received: from falcon.hinterlands.com (tc-pt1-17.ida.net [208.141.181.26]) by mail.ida.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03651 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:31:51 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:30:04 -0700 (MST) From: Mike X-Sender: muck@falcon.hinterlands.com To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice 5.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, William Woods wrote: > I found a copy of 4.0 at www.filez.com last night and am running it now on 3.0 > -current also, thanks for all the help folks. Not that this is of any importance, just cool. The netcraft site servey says: www.filez.com is running Apache/1.3.3 (Unix) on FreeBSD. Mike > > On 20-Nov-98 Shawn Ramsey wrote: > >> Actually I htink 4.0 does not work with FreeBSD either, I beleive 3.0 is > >> only working now although they say they are in the middle of porting it > >> (since they have iit on every other OS) > > > > 4.0 works fine on 2.2.7, sp3 requires a small patch though. > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: William Woods > Date: 20-Nov-98 > Time: 02:01:36 > -->> FreeBSD 3.0 <<-- > AIM bsdman1 > --------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 21 15:16:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01265 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt3-53.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01259 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10805; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:40:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811210540.XAA10805@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley In-reply-to: Message from Jacques Vidrine of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:07:31 CST." <199811210307.VAA16420@spawn.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:40:40 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to -chat Jacques Vidrine writes: > > [sorry so off-topic, but I had to respond] > > !! And to think that sometimes I believe that we're in a backwater > down in New Orleans... > > About two months ago I gave up my 128kbps ISDN line for an ADSL line > (256kbps upstream, 1536kbps downstream). The ISDN line had cost me > $80/mo from BellSouth, and (if I would have been paying) $30/mo from > my ISP. Now, I pay nothing to BellSouth, and (if I had to pay, I > would be) paying my ISP $60/mo. My ADSL router was free (though > it doesn't have a built-in hub). > > I would have expected better connectivity options in the Bay Area! Sounds like Jacques has a *free* ADSL connection? Or by dropping the $80 ISDN service the $60 ADSL service yeilds a $20 surplus? BellSouth has been running test cases of ADSL in a few cities. Wander around http://www.bellsouth.com a little, search for ADSL, and you'll find them (at bellsouth.net). I am told in the Birmingham area such ADSL service was $30 per month (including ISP services). From the marketing geniuses (and PSC) who charged $80/month for ISDN and lately got it changed so new ISDN customers pay by the minute for use over 200 hours/ month. BellSouth.net's posted rates for ADSL (including ISP service) is $59.95/ month. Discount it by $10 if you inflate your telephone service by $16 of additional features. They are careful not to state data rates. There is about $100 installation fee. And about $200 more for the ADSL modem. Also don't expect a static IP address (wouldn't that be sweet?) I asked but all I got was a form letter stating, "Sorry but ADSL is not available in your area yet. We'll inform you when it is." Most cable modems are pretty minimal, expect the same for most ADSL modems. Meaning the modem only talks IP on the ethernet to the first IP address it hears after a reset. Meaning you don't want a real network between your modem and FreeBSD box. OTOH the FreeBSD box makes a great router/firewall/NAT for the rest of your net. In the part of this message I cut, Amancio stated his $490 SDSL modem/ router included a 4-port 10baseT hub. Nice touch. Nice to have at least a minimal router in the thing. The PC mentality is "cheap" so I expect xDSL modems with routers built in will be delegated to the same status as SCSI devices, "only for rich geeks." -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 21 15:40:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02804 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02799 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:40:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA07427; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:35:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma007425; Sat, 21 Nov 98 17:35:54 -0600 Received: (from nectar@localhost) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00323; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:35:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199811210540.XAA10805@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:35:53 -0600 (CST) From: nectar@FreeBSD.ORG To: David Kelly Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 21-Nov-98 David Kelly wrote: [snip] > BellSouth has been running test cases of ADSL in a few cities. New Orleans was the first. There is supposed to be five other cities up by the end of the year. I haven't been tracking, though, since I'm no longer in that business. [snip] > Also don't expect a static IP address (wouldn't that be sweet?) I asked > but all I got was a form letter stating, "Sorry but ADSL is not > available in your area yet. We'll inform you when it is." So don't use BellSouth.Net. For example, in the Greater New Orleans area, try a local provider such as Verio. BellSouth's ADSL architecture really has made the playing field very level for all ISPs (surprising, I know). Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNldOWTeRhT8JRySpAQGGSgP/Tbx8PwwcTfx7s1/FYV4OUeHLZe/qIRLH n0bnFUJ2r3NTZP0d60weUgHeEU4+q0/tl6gJvedWiDz8cX35j6zEN0W6EW8HL0hv pzXJhxyPWSYn4DB6RKju0cBeVa/EPpSN/wnv+pCm0SgdZMoZy0rlEVTALkNf/wJI GS7aBfAh3hI= =Yi+e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 21 17:07:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12325 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12320 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01557; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199811220106.RAA01557@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Kelly cc: Jacques Vidrine , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:40:40 CST." <199811210540.XAA10805@n4hhe.ampr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:06:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, my sdsl router supports network address translation (ip masquerading) and/or static ip addressing it also serves as a firewall if I want to enable it. Had to snoop on the net figure out its default address after that it was a snap to talk to it via ethernet. I am really impress by the little bugger 8) It has survive mbone traffic which is really nice since some router's memory allocation scheme fall over when faced with lots of udp traffic like from vic . I am aware that my charges are high however when speaking to a buddy of mine about it he claims that isp and telcos's will charge what the market can bear :( > Moved to -chat > > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > > [sorry so off-topic, but I had to respond] > > > > !! And to think that sometimes I believe that we're in a backwater > > down in New Orleans... > > > > About two months ago I gave up my 128kbps ISDN line for an ADSL line > > (256kbps upstream, 1536kbps downstream). The ISDN line had cost me > > $80/mo from BellSouth, and (if I would have been paying) $30/mo from > > my ISP. Now, I pay nothing to BellSouth, and (if I had to pay, I > > would be) paying my ISP $60/mo. My ADSL router was free (though > > it doesn't have a built-in hub). > > > > I would have expected better connectivity options in the Bay Area! > > Sounds like Jacques has a *free* ADSL connection? Or by dropping the > $80 ISDN service the $60 ADSL service yeilds a $20 surplus? > > BellSouth has been running test cases of ADSL in a few cities. Wander > around http://www.bellsouth.com a little, search for ADSL, and you'll > find them (at bellsouth.net). I am told in the Birmingham area such ADSL > service was $30 per month (including ISP services). From the marketing > geniuses (and PSC) who charged $80/month for ISDN and lately got it > changed so new ISDN customers pay by the minute for use over 200 hours/ > month. > > BellSouth.net's posted rates for ADSL (including ISP service) is $59.95/ > month. Discount it by $10 if you inflate your telephone service by $16 > of additional features. They are careful not to state data rates. There > is about $100 installation fee. And about $200 more for the ADSL modem. > > Also don't expect a static IP address (wouldn't that be sweet?) I asked > but all I got was a form letter stating, "Sorry but ADSL is not > available in your area yet. We'll inform you when it is." > > Most cable modems are pretty minimal, expect the same for most ADSL > modems. Meaning the modem only talks IP on the ethernet to the first IP > address it hears after a reset. Meaning you don't want a real network > between your modem and FreeBSD box. OTOH the FreeBSD box makes a great > router/firewall/NAT for the rest of your net. > > In the part of this message I cut, Amancio stated his $490 SDSL modem/ > router included a 4-port 10baseT hub. Nice touch. Nice to have at least > a minimal router in the thing. The PC mentality is "cheap" so I expect > xDSL modems with routers built in will be delegated to the same status > as SCSI devices, "only for rich geeks." Gosh I am going to tell Bettina that I am a rich geek.... Serious $490 is not bad for what it appears to be a good router/modem I paid $750 for my Ascend Pipeline 50 3 years ago so it is inline with Bettina's (my girlfriend) expectation technology should get cheaper and better 8) As for FlowPoint never heard of them till I got one ... Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 21 18:35:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19119 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (tnt1-133.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19077; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:35:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by n4hhe.ampr.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA16114; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:34:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199811220234.UAA16114@n4hhe.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: nectar@FreeBSD.ORG cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: SDSL in Silicon Valley In-reply-to: Message from nectar@FreeBSD.ORG of "Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:35:53 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:34:33 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org nectar@FreeBSD.ORG writes: > [snip] > > Also don't expect a static IP address (wouldn't that be sweet?) I > asked > > but all I got was a form letter stating, "Sorry but ADSL is not > > available in your area yet. We'll inform you when it is." > > So don't use BellSouth.Net. For example, in the Greater New Orleans > area, try a local provider such as Verio. BellSouth's ADSL architecture > really has made the playing field very level for all ISPs (surprising, > I know). Naturally when one follows links from BellSouth.com which end up on BellSouth.net one isn't told there is a choice in ISP's. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message