From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 00:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25054 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25049 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA25496; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:47:37 +0200 (IST) Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04430; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:47:28 +0200 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:47:28 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Brett Glass cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:15 PM 12/25/98 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > >And you must have a translation (generally as a small footnote) if a > >sentence is in a foreign language. > > Chacun a son gout. (*) > > >We also have quotas for the broadcasting > >radios (around 40%of french music) which is pretty ridiculous. > > A faction in Israel just introduced a bill imposing a 50% > Hebrew quota. Only in the Army Radio and the public Broadcasting Authority. Private stations can still broadcast whatever they like. > > --Brett > > (*) Everyone has gout. ;-) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 01:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27345 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA27340 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:31:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.13]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA451C; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:31:22 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981227164207.W12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:38:07 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith , Sue Blake , Mark Ovens , Brett Glass , joe , Drew Baxter Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Dec-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > So, tell me what a toon ferret is. Hire Roger Rabbit and ye will see toon ferret soon enough ;) Now get a picture of a toon ferret and Jordan next to each other and see if they have similarities. (Note: the toon ferrets in Roger Rabbit sure had a great sense of humor) =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 04:05:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14265 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14251 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zuEw7-0004SM-00; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:04:43 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA01586; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:04:12 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09536; Sun, 27 Dec 98 12:04:07 GMT Message-Id: <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:52:38 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Yvonne Lehey Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA14255 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 20:43:53 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: > >> > >> The funny thing is that when the English adopt a word from another > >> language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED > >> to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels. > > > > Whereas Americans simply _remove_ (mainly) vowls from English words :-) > > Not really. How do you pronounce ``laboratory''. Four syllables, > right? The Americans stretch five out of it. Dropping vowels is more > common elsewhere (as in French). > Er Greg, note the ``:-)''. I was making a friendly jibe at the American spelling of words like colour. > >> For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a > >> piece of "GA-teau." > > > > I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I think the English > > pronounciation of "gateau" is identical to the origianal French. > > It's difficult to know if you're talking about the same pronunciation > that we are. As others observe, there's a general tendency in English > to place the accent on the wrong syllable. In addition, I've often > heard things like ``would you like some Black Forest gæteau'' in > England, which is doubly funny: > > 1. It's a tart, not a gâteau. > 2. The æ sound (as in `at') is completely wrong. > But what is the distinction between a French word and an English word of French origin? > On the whole, even educated people here perpetuate the same mistakes > that the British make. Even those who get French vowels more or less > right will consistently put the accent on the wrong syllable, which I > find a great source of amusement (my wife, Yvonne, is almost always > mispronounced). > What is the correct pronounciation of Yvonne? > > But in general most languages tend to change the accents of foreign > borrowings, and English is a good example. Note the opposite tendency > in the US: people automatically place the accent on foreign words on > the *last* syllable, which in general is true for French only. > > > Partly of course this comes about because of sounds in one language > > not existing in another and therefore the majority of the population > > _can't_ pronounce them properly. > > I'd consider this a completely unrelated effect. > I disagree. Consider the Spanish dish Paella. How do you pronounce it?. We almost universally say ``Pie-ella'' which is completely wrong, but the Spanish sound ``ll'' doesn't exist in English and is extremely difficult to say correctly, so you end up with a totally different pronounciation in English. > > Sure. This is a normal tendency, and is the reason why Hindi and > English sound so different. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 05:13:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22020 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 05:13:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22013 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 05:13:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.198]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA335E; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:13:10 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:19:52 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Yvonne Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Dec-98 Mark Ovens wrote: > What is the correct pronounciation of Yvonne? In Dutch I think it's like this: EE-vhonn or EE-vhonn-eh --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 06:35:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28289 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28284 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA96749; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:34:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crazy laws (was: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws))) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227130153.J12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227143226.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Dec 1998 15:34:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:32:26 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:54:00 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) > You mean the original topic? Names in Germany? Probably forever. Norway, Greg, *Norway* :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 08:31:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08580 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab.cba.ualr.edu (lab.cba.ualr.edu [144.167.120.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08575 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:31:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@lab.cba.ualr.edu) Received: from access67.mod1.ualr.edu (joe@access67.mod1.ualr.edu [144.167.7.67]) by lab.cba.ualr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17350 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:37:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:31:23 -0600 (EST) From: joe X-Sender: joe@njal.ualr.edu To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981227001919.00920a10@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 10:10 PM 12/26/98 -0600, joe wrote: > >On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > >> At 01:01 PM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> >On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 21:09:50 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >> >> At 06:03 PM 12/26/98 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > >> >>> At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is > >> >>>> even higher on the mainland. > >> >>> > >> >>> Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about > >> >>> the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their > >> >>> willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. > >> >> > >> >> .... > >> >> > >> >> And to think, I get griped at for stupider threads than this... :-) > >> > > >> >Sure. The stupider the message, the more likely you are to get griped > >> >at. Is that illogical? > >> > > > >Is "stupider" an actual word? > > > >> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) > > > >For a few days now, and even branching off from topics such the phonetics > >of various languages to tobacco use of the Brits...even thought of > >contributing to it myself...ooops, already did 8-) > > And this relates directly or even indirectly to FreeBSD *looks around* > Where? :-) [I'm just asking the questions I get asked when I post > irrelevant material] If you look at the list charter for freebsd-chat at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook351.html#704 it states: Non technical items related to the FreeBSD community This list contains the overflow from the other lists about non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about whether Jordan looks like a toon ferret or not, whether or not to type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to this -chat list. >From this I get it's okay to post irrelevant material on -chat. > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 10:13:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18863 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:13:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18858 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA21118; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:13:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:10:58 -0700 To: Mark Ovens , Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Yvonne Lehey In-Reply-To: <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com> References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:52 AM 12/27/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >I disagree. Consider the Spanish dish Paella. How do you pronounce it?. pah-AY-yah. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 10:25:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19805 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:25:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19800 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:25:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.50]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA5667; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:27:47 +0500 Message-ID: <36867BB6.844497DA@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:25:58 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:52 AM 12/27/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >I disagree. Consider the Spanish dish Paella. How do you pronounce it?. > > pah-AY-yah. > pah-ehh-yah is more like it...which remembers me I was asked to translate "chimichurri" for someone :-). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 10:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20343 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20333 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.255]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4D51; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:30:17 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:36:58 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: Yvonne Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Ollivier Robert , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Dec-98 Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:52 AM 12/27/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >>I disagree. Consider the Spanish dish Paella. How do you pronounce it?. > > pah-AY-yah. Ehmmm, more like : pah-EH-yah, the double ll turns to a j like sound, at least the dutch j ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 10:31:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20460 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20454 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA21241; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:31:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 11:29:00 -0700 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36867BB6.844497DA@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >pah-ehh-yah is more like it... Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced as a short "e". --Brett Father: No, son, THAT's the fruit cake and THAT's the yule log. Son: But, Dad -- it's heavier, it's harder, and it lights much more easily. Are you SURE it's the fruit cake? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 13:15:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04218 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04213 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zuNWG-0005ik-00; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:14:36 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA01822; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:14:03 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10772; Sun, 27 Dec 98 21:14:00 GMT Message-Id: <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:10:15 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > >pah-ehh-yah is more like it... > > Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced > as a short "e". > Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what I said in reply to Brett stating "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels.". > --Brett > > Father: No, son, THAT's the fruit cake and THAT's the yule log. > Son: But, Dad -- it's heavier, it's harder, and it lights > much more easily. Are you SURE it's the fruit cake? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 14:57:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13291 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13275 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:57:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11586 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:56:55 -0800 (PST) To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: i NEED SOME INFO In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 27 Dec 1998 23:20:11 +0100." <19981227232011.A1857@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:56:55 -0800 Message-ID: <11582.914799415@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is a bleeding penguin on top of Chuck^H^H^H^H^Hdaemon fork OK Jordan ? > > [runs and ducks] [jkh leads Ollivier by just a few yards] *BLAM!* *BLAM!* "Yes! Got him with both barrels!" Word to the wise: Duck *first*, then run. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 15:32:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16135 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:32:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16107 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25515; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:00:52 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA29434; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:00:54 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228100054.N12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:00:54 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens Cc: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Yvonne Lehey Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 11:52:38AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 11:52:38 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 20:43:53 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >>> Brett Glass wrote: >>>> >>>> The funny thing is that when the English adopt a word from another >>>> language, they cannot seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED >>>> to shift at least the accented syllables and often the vowels. >>> >>> Whereas Americans simply _remove_ (mainly) vowls from English words :-) >> >> Not really. How do you pronounce ``laboratory''. Four syllables, >> right? The Americans stretch five out of it. Dropping vowels is more >> common elsewhere (as in French). > > Er Greg, note the ``:-)''. I was making a friendly jibe at the American > spelling of words like colour. Oh. That's not a vowel, that's a letter. They pronounce the second vowel much the same way as the English do: schwa. >>>> For example, I was recently asked in an English resatuarant if I'd like a >>>> piece of "GA-teau." >>> >>> I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I think the English >>> pronounciation of "gateau" is identical to the origianal French. >> >> It's difficult to know if you're talking about the same pronunciation >> that we are. As others observe, there's a general tendency in English >> to place the accent on the wrong syllable. In addition, I've often >> heard things like ``would you like some Black Forest gæteau'' in >> England, which is doubly funny: >> >> 1. It's a tart, not a gâteau. >> 2. The æ sound (as in `at') is completely wrong. > > But what is the distinction between a French word and an English word of > French origin? A good question. Depends on who you ask. >> On the whole, even educated people here perpetuate the same mistakes >> that the British make. Even those who get French vowels more or less >> right will consistently put the accent on the wrong syllable, which I >> find a great source of amusement (my wife, Yvonne, is almost always >> mispronounced). > > What is the correct pronounciation of Yvonne? Damn, I wish I had phonetic symbols here. The Y is a long pure I (which some people represent `ee'), the o is a short pure o (as in English `off'; I don't think the Americans use this sound). The important thing is that the accent is on the second (last) syllable. >> But in general most languages tend to change the accents of foreign >> borrowings, and English is a good example. Note the opposite tendency >> in the US: people automatically place the accent on foreign words on >> the *last* syllable, which in general is true for French only. >> >>> Partly of course this comes about because of sounds in one language >>> not existing in another and therefore the majority of the population >>> _can't_ pronounce them properly. >> >> I'd consider this a completely unrelated effect. > > I disagree. Consider the Spanish dish Paella. How do you pronounce > it?. I personally pronounce it the Spanish way, pa-éllya. > We almost universally say ``Pie-ella'' which is completely wrong, but > the Spanish sound ``ll'' doesn't exist in English Sure it does. It's the sound in `million'. Where did your Spanish people come from? It's the Welsh `ll' that's unpronounceable. > and is extremely difficult to say correctly, so you end up with a > totally different pronounciation in English. The real problem with `paella' is that they don't pronounce it this way in America. It might be close in Mexico, but most Mexicans will say `pa-éya' (missing out the ll altogether). Further down, this sound degenerates into a j (as the s in `pleasure'). In Argentina, it's `pa-éja'. Note that there's no significant change in the vowels here. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 15:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16432 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16427 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25528; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:03:09 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA29448; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:03:10 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228100310.O12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:03:10 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <36867BB6.844497DA@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 11:29:00AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 11:29:00 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... > > Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced > as a short "e". It's difficult to know what sounds you're thinking of. But apart from some obscure southern German dialects, English is the only European language that makes much use of diphthongs such as `ay'. Spanish makes it very clear in the spelling when it does. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 15:38:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16736 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:38:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16731 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:38:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25545; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:07:49 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA29461; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:07:51 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:07:51 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 09:10:15PM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 21:10:15 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: >> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >> >>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... >> >> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced >> as a short "e". >> > > Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for > Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to > pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that > sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into > common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what > I said in reply to Brett stating > > "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot > seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the > accented syllables and often the vowels.". It's not a problem of the sounds, all of which any native English speaker uses in normal conversation. The problem is representing them so that people can understand them. It doesn't even always help if they say them to you, because you'll subconsciously strip off the part that you attribute to their accent. True story: Some years back, in Germany, we had an American girl working with us, an unusual situation in those days. On one occasion, I was talking with one of my German colleagues about a (FORTRAN) program he was writing, and he referred to the `cummen' section. I said ``That's pronounced `common', not `cummen'''. He said, ``that's because you're Australian. The Americans pronounce it `cummen'''. So we asked (forgot what her name was) how she pronounced it. She said `common'. My German colleague said ``see? She said `cummen'''. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 15:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17327 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17322 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA21774; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:47:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981228104750.15675@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:47:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 21:10:15 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: > >> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> > >>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... > >> > >> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced > >> as a short "e". > >> > > > > Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for > > Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to > > pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that > > sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into > > common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what > > I said in reply to Brett stating > > > > "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot > > seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the > > accented syllables and often the vowels.". > > It's not a problem of the sounds, all of which any native English > speaker uses in normal conversation. The problem is representing them > so that people can understand them. It doesn't even always help if > they say them to you, because you'll subconsciously strip off the part > that you attribute to their accent. > > True story: > > Some years back, in Germany, we had an American girl working with > us, an unusual situation in those days. On one occasion, I was > talking with one of my German colleagues about a (FORTRAN) program > he was writing, and he referred to the `cummen' section. I said > ``That's pronounced `common', not `cummen'''. He said, ``that's > because you're Australian. The Americans pronounce it `cummen'''. > So we asked (forgot what her name was) how she pronounced it. She > said `common'. My German colleague said ``see? She said > `cummen'''. No, I'm sure she would have said "cummen", or at least "caahmen". You said yourself that the o sound is one that the Americans don't use. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 16:06:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20538 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:06:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20368 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:06:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25654; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:35:19 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA29492; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:35:21 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228103521.Q12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:35:21 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Sue Blake Cc: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> <19981228104750.15675@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981228104750.15675@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:47:50AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 28 December 1998 at 10:47:50 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 21:10:15 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >>> Brett Glass wrote: >>>> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>>> >>>>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... >>>> >>>> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced >>>> as a short "e". >>>> >>> >>> Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for >>> Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to >>> pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that >>> sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into >>> common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what >>> I said in reply to Brett stating >>> >>> "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot >>> seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the >>> accented syllables and often the vowels.". >> >> It's not a problem of the sounds, all of which any native English >> speaker uses in normal conversation. The problem is representing them >> so that people can understand them. It doesn't even always help if >> they say them to you, because you'll subconsciously strip off the part >> that you attribute to their accent. >> >> True story: >> >> Some years back, in Germany, we had an American girl working with >> us, an unusual situation in those days. On one occasion, I was >> talking with one of my German colleagues about a (FORTRAN) program >> he was writing, and he referred to the `cummen' section. I said >> ``That's pronounced `common', not `cummen'''. He said, ``that's >> because you're Australian. The Americans pronounce it `cummen'''. >> So we asked (forgot what her name was) how she pronounced it. She >> said `common'. My German colleague said ``see? She said >> `cummen'''. > > No, I'm sure she would have said "cummen", or at least "caahmen". You > said yourself that the o sound is one that the Americans don't use. Right, I deliberately left that vague. Of course she made a different sound from the one I did, but I recognized it as being the same. My German colleague spoke mainly with the same vowels as I did, but he made an exception in this one case. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 16:28:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25530 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25522 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 16:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25730; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:56:47 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA29579; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:56:50 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981228105649.T12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:56:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Mark Ovens , Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crazy laws (was: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws))) References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981226210926.009b6430@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227130153.J12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226225346.00c35100@genesis.ispace.com> <19981227143226.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 03:34:52PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 15:34:52 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:54:00 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) >> You mean the original topic? Names in Germany? Probably forever. > > Norway, Greg, *Norway* :) Ah, right. So what was the answer? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 22:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00184 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00166 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11512; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:14:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19981228161306.C11293@caamora.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:13:06 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199812230107.TAA09822@n4hhe.ampr.org> <4.1.19981223001616.009eb140@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981223001616.009eb140@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 12:32:19AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 12:32:19AM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 07:07 PM 12/22/98 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > >> If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and > >> support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. > > > >Excuses, excuses, excuses. 85% percent of software doesn't support your > >Voodoo2 card, so the requirement that 85% of software support FreeBSD > >and the Voodoo2 card is extremely unlikely. If it were to come to pass, > >Jordan Hubbard would have done what Bill Gates couldn't do. > > Did I say it does? actually you did .. go back to some of teh real english grammar books, thier you will find a description off what the 'and' does. also you were describing you computers display subsystems, to amke what you say latter a tue representation, it would have need to be a different structural entity .. sorry i'm getting picky. at this early stage, plese excuse my spelling, i have dsylexia and several neurological deficits that make it nearly impossible to type and spell correctly, most (unix based, and all teh rest) spell checkers cannot cope with my spelling disorders and make teh spelling worse that what it is. so i don't bother, i prefer to have all teh right letters in teh word and woryy about the order latter. if this sounds like i'm saying i;m a disabled person, you are right, only i'm a real disabled person with hands, eyes brain and legs that don't work as they are told to do .. not like an average wheelchair 'disbled person' whose only probelm is that they cannot get up and walk, but have 100 percent use of eyes hands and brain and no impediments to typing well and can spell properly. > I said if I could GET 85% of the software on the market > AND my voodoo2 card.. They are separate entities in my sentence.. I'm also i have one question, why do yo want 85 percent of all software in teh marketplace to run on your computer which include your choice of a specific video (image and text) processing subsystem ? how many word processors, how many spreadsheets, how many whatevers can you use ? shortly i will be investing in a sun microsystems WABI licence so that i can use teh word processors of choice and my faverite spreadsheet, these being ms windows excell v2.11 and ms word for windows v2.0a and wordperfect v5.1. i have very specific needs to use those three packages, as well as the fact that i grew up with them and i find tehm most comfortable to use. wonce i get this organised i will in all probability never upgrade teh underlying operating system, and i can guarentee you that i will never go away from those three packages. well, that is not true, if somebody ever ports framework v2 to xwindows or makes it possible to use teh dos version of framework v2 in a dos emulator, then and only them i will trash teh rest and go back to framework. just in case you are interested framework is an excelent 'office package', it was one of teh forst actually. i provides a veru good text authering system, a spreadsheet and database engine as well as teh other goodies. ok, i've mentioned 4 software packages, this is about 2 to 3 more than most people use, in a practial sence, in thier daily computer chores. ohhh, your are going to cry tears of blood over teh amrican mantra, 'freedom of choice', answer this, whic is better one or two very good bit of saftware that work faultlessly or several thousand that are medicre at best and dangerious at worst ? choices is pertinent to, with and at levels of functional equivalence, not just yet another spreadsheet hat works almost as good as ms excel on a good day if you hold you tonge at teh right angle .. maybe. choise is relevent when confronted with equally functional objects. currently the software (home small business) marketplace dosen't work like that, in short we dond have teh hegemony of a us govt divison or a soe/sop (just in case yo are not a big company tech support person) standard operating environment/stand operating procedures from a fortune 500 company. choice when used in the manner you propose is a cripling disease that hampers far more that it ever helps people to 'develop'. > referring to the regular PC market.. I don't see me (nor many people in my > economic class) to be able to have an SGI or an UltraSparc or anything like > that for a home machine. > > This is a software creation place, but this is also a place of > demonstration.. If anything I'm trying to sell myself in demonstration. > It's increasingly difficult to try to sell on a platform that the 'average > consumer' (keep in mind this is referencing the average consumer in Maine, > USA), actually cares about. Windows, people here can understand. FreeBSD, > UNIX, Linux (although media lately on that word could spark something), > AIX, SGI, SPARC, SUN, all those words, are not really known or have little > relevance on the 'average consumer' in Maine. As a network developer in an > Educational Institution (Public, at that), I get the wonderous joy of being > a consultant too. "FreeBSD", will not sell as a buzz word to these people, yup, only, i worked at teh real coalface, seeing computer replace people, and watching teh heartache and misery that was rought by even teh mention of teh word computer in relation to ones duty roster. this is how people really feel about 'computers', this is why companies like microsoft are spemding millions, not to advertise 'microsoft' product but to detoxify teh word computer. > but "Windows" will. People that refuse to touch computers in that town > know what Windows is.. no they do not .. they are comfortable with a much bandied about buzzword that has no real definition. it is an aglomeration of meanings that pass a vague picture of some sort of mundane functionality atributed with, and concurrent tot eh use of an object called a 'computer system'. i have several frinds who tell me tehy are extremely computer literate, they all use ms windows, one even 'feels comfortable' at teh ms dos cli. yet when thier dos shell interface cracks up and tehy have to use more than a mouse and a handfull of 'keyboard shortcuts' to fix it .. they are totally lost. computer literacy is measured by the lack of literacy of ones peers, not by how much one thinks that hey know about a very partucular, very narrow segment of one type of software tollkit. but that is another side of teh cion you flipped lets hope it dosnt land exposing that side ... yup. > If you're looking for me to say that I'd wipe all 17.7 gig of storage I > have on this machine and install FreeBSD, you won't see that. Yes, I have > a FreeBSD machine running X here, as well as my larger machine at work. > Yes, I like using both of them. Yes, I am in a Microsoft world due to > work. But there are several thousand other people that go to work each > morning to a Windows-based PC, so if anything, I'm a sell-out or a > follower.. But that's the difference, if I was a leader, I'd have a choice. we are all leaders, we all have choice, concomitant with those choices are responsibilities .. this is what peope dont want .. teh responsibilities. > > >Not to mention less than 85% of all software runs on Microsoft hosts. less than 15 percent of ALL software runs on ibm/intel personal computer based hardware. > >Apple, Unix, and mainframes have at least 20% of the software market. unix and mainframes are about 60 perecnt of teh WHOLE software market place with embeded (realtime unix like) systems being about 15 to 20 percent with home and small business machines bringing up teh rear. one small moot point to note as teh embeded systems market place grows it wil take far more from teh home business end of teh spectrum that it will from teh unix/mainframe end, this segment may actually grow as it diversifys to supply bulk information to a host of read and display terminals that people will still call "home computers" teh mainframe will be doing al teh data crunching and sending out tot eh termial in teh home. > > Again, PC market. K-8 school in Eastern/Central Maine USA in a town with > 1800 people doesn't care about Mainframe or Unix, in many cases not even > Apple.. if they didnt care about unix or mainframes they wouldm have the govt services that they do have, nor would they have traffic lights, and their telephine exchange would be still using hill top signal fires. 98 percent of people at home do not need a computer of any kind, they want one, want and need are two completely differnet ways of looking at things, items positions and phhilosophical structures. > > If someone ever manages to get WINE to be neck and neck with whatever > Windows version comes out (as far as application compatiblity only), then > I'll switch. In the meantime, the words are "Office", "Foolproof", and > "Encarta"... 2 of the 3 ARE Microsoft products, the 3rd only runs on > Windows or Macintosh.. > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > OneNetwork Exchange > Network Development, Orland Consolidated School > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > 207-942-0275 / 207-471-2719 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 03:34:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19978 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:34:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jezebel.demon.co.uk (jezebel.demon.co.uk [158.152.38.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19972 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:34:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Received: (from richard@localhost) by jezebel.demon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00629; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:33:58 GMT (envelope-from richard) Message-ID: <19981228113358.A580@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:33:58 +0000 From: Richard Smith To: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens Cc: Sue Blake , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) References: <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <3685208E.DE0DD5F@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226105508.0587f170@mail.lariat.org> <19981227112617.C12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226180206.059326b0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 06:03:51PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 06:03:51PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:26 AM 12/27/98 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >You obviously didn't cross the Channel. The proportion of smokers is > >even higher on the mainland. > > Believe me, I *have* crossed the Channel. The proportion seemed about > the same, though establishments in different countries varied in their > willingness to create non-smoking sections in restaurants, etc. Must have been a while ago. The no-smoking lobby is currently winning in the uk in a lot of areas. However, an increasing percentage of teenage girls taking up smoking is a particular concern at the moment. Continental Europe appears to be more resistant to the no-smoking lobby. -richard adding his 2 pence worth. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 05:52:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA02544 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02536 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zud5H-0001Lx-00; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:51:47 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA01682; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:51:23 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03020; Mon, 28 Dec 98 13:51:19 GMT Message-Id: <36878405.9948BBC9@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:13:41 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Yvonne Lehey Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <36861F86.2761847A@uk.radan.com> <19981228100054.N12346@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > >>> > >>> Whereas Americans simply _remove_ (mainly) vowls from English words :-) > >> > > Er Greg, note the ``:-)''. I was making a friendly jibe at the American > > spelling of words like colour. > > Oh. That's not a vowel, that's a letter. They pronounce the second > vowel much the same way as the English do: schwa. > OK, you mean vowels in the phonetic sense. I meant in the simple sense, the letters a, e, i, o, u. It was only a little joke (which has fallen flat ;-) ). > > But what is the distinction between a French word and an English word of > > French origin? > > A good question. Depends on who you ask. > Well, my understanding is that the OED is the definition of the English language. New words are added to it as they come into common usage (although I think they're beginning to lose the plot a little with some of the ~2000 new 'words' they added to the current edition, like "pwhoar" :-/). The word "gateau" is in the OED, which means that it can be considered an English word, but definitely of French origin, and so one would expect a different pronounciation to the original. > >> Even those who get French vowels more or less > >> right will consistently put the accent on the wrong syllable, which I > >> find a great source of amusement (my wife, Yvonne, is almost always > >> mispronounced). > > > > What is the correct pronounciation of Yvonne? > > Damn, I wish I had phonetic symbols here. The Y is a long pure I > (which some people represent `ee'), the o is a short pure o (as in > English `off'; I don't think the Americans use this sound). The > important thing is that the accent is on the second (last) syllable. > and Yvonne added (in another post): > Definitely not Eeeeeeevonne! ;-) Ah!, we agree on something ;-). I was puzzled by your statement as I pronounce Yvonne as you describe, but I have heard some people say ``Eeeeeeevonne''. > > We almost universally say ``Pie-ella'' which is completely wrong, but > > the Spanish sound ``ll'' doesn't exist in English > > Sure it does. It's the sound in `million'. Where did your Spanish > people come from? It's the Welsh `ll' that's unpronounceable. > Alicante, and I certainly couldn't hear any ``ll'' (as in million) in their pronounciation of it. My attempts to pronounce it correctly was a great source of amusement to them. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 09:12:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20539 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20532 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA16611; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:12:21 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA60483; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:12:21 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981228181221.I53810@follo.net> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:12:21 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <36867BB6.844497DA@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <19981228100310.O12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981228100310.O12346@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:03:10AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:03:10AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 11:29:00 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > >> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... > > > > Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced > > as a short "e". > > It's difficult to know what sounds you're thinking of. But apart from > some obscure southern German dialects, English is the only European > language that makes much use of diphthongs such as `ay'. Spanish > makes it very clear in the spelling when it does. *Zot* You're forgetting norwegian again. E.g, in my name (where ei is a diphthong, pronounced somewhat like 'æj' where 'æ' is like the first sound of 'at'). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 14:07:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29676 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:07:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29671 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:07:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24252; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19981228140723.A23872@wopr.caltech.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:07:23 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: pekarske_bob@burr-brown.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, pekarske_bob@u2.bbrown.com Subject: Re: Y2K References: <072566E8.007691E6.00@coral.bbrown.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <072566E8.007691E6.00@coral.bbrown.com>; from pekarske_bob@burr-brown.com on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 02:50:01PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've moved this to -chat. On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 02:50:01PM -0700, pekarske_bob@burr-brown.com wrote: > I believe it would be in FreeBSD's best interests to be able to provide an > upgrade path. Sure. There are lots of things that would be in FreeBSD's best interests. The problem is that naming the problem doesn't get it solved, so the likely result is that nothing is likely to happen. There's all sorts of bug fixes, feature additions, and so on that would help FreeBSD. Some will get done because volunteers find them interesting, and some won't because nobody bothers. That's the name of the game. Most Unix people find Y2K pretty boring, because any remining problems are likely to be minor and easy to fix, so most people would rather work on interesting projects. Note that people have run FreeBSD systems with the clock set past 2000, and any remaining problems are minor enough not to have been noticed. The system's not going to explode or anything. [ NB- As I write this, David's email about the testing has arrived. Maybe that will help to reassure you a bit. My own statements are not intended to say whether the testing that has been done is adequate or not for your purposes or mine. ] I would now like to editorialize, sort of in response to some things that you wrote but not specifally directed at you. Your point seems to be founded on the notion that a more thorough Y2K audit would make FreeBSD more appealing to corporate users who are not in a position to do this work themselves. I'm sure that you're right. But on the other hand, I am of the opinion that catering to that sort of user should not be an important goal of the project. That is, I would rather see us spending our time to make life better for users who *will* contribute back to the project. Other people are likely to disagree, and want to see lots of units shipped, lots of name recognition, etc. I've never been too concerned about such things unless they lead to actual improvements in the operating system. Matthew -- Matthew Hunt * Science rules. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:11:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08794 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:11:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08789 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:11:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.39]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA6915 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:13:59 +0500 Message-ID: <36881058.4F630F92@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:12:24 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can we distribute Java now ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's late, but I found this: http://java.sun.com/features/1998/12/source_license_QA.html Does this mean we can redistribute at least the JRE ? Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:22:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10380 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchangeserver.mpainc.com (proxy.mpainc.com [198.246.145.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10374 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:22:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RickSiple@mpainc.com) Received: by EXCHANGESERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:23:16 -0500 Message-ID: <50D018439050D211AFB1006008CEB82D061611@EXCHANGESERVER> From: Rick Siple To: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: FreeBSD DVD-ROMs on FreeBSD Mall Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:22:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Somebody has to have thought of this detail, but I'll ask anyway... There is a note in FreeBSD Mall asking about user interest in a DVD ROM format FreeBSD distribution. As far as I can tell from searches of the mailing list archives, handbook, release notes, etc. FreeBSD does not support the DVD format yet (UDF?). This seems to be putting the cart before the horse, unless I am missing something. Or is the announcement to gauge the interest in DVD support in FreeBSD itself also? __________ Rick Siple ricksiple@mpainc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:27:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles205.castles.com [208.214.165.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10900 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:27:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13625; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:24:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812282324.PAA13625@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Rick Siple cc: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Re: FreeBSD DVD-ROMs on FreeBSD Mall In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:22:32 EST." <50D018439050D211AFB1006008CEB82D061611@EXCHANGESERVER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:24:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Somebody has to have thought of this detail, but I'll ask > anyway... > > There is a note in FreeBSD Mall asking about user interest in a > DVD ROM format FreeBSD distribution. As far as I can tell from searches > of the mailing list archives, handbook, release notes, etc. FreeBSD does > not support the DVD format yet (UDF?). This seems to be putting the > cart before the horse, unless I am missing something. You can put other filesystems on DVDs. > Or is the announcement to gauge the interest in DVD support in > FreeBSD itself also? This is the real purpose, yes. If there's a market for a FreeBSD DVD, then overcoming the technical issues is simply a matter of doing the work. If there's no market, there's little point in the work. The process of producing a DVD at the moment is still extremely painful. We're hoping that the tools will improve shortly, especially with the new range of low-end mastering devices appearing. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11897 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11880 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA00504; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:03:04 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA32212; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:03:07 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981229100306.L12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:03:06 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Eivind Eklund , Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <36867BB6.844497DA@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <19981228100310.O12346@freebie.lemis.com> <19981228181221.I53810@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981228181221.I53810@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 06:12:21PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 28 December 1998 at 18:12:21 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:03:10AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 11:29:00 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >>> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>> >>>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... >>> >>> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced >>> as a short "e". >> >> It's difficult to know what sounds you're thinking of. But apart from >> some obscure southern German dialects, English is the only European >> language that makes much use of diphthongs such as `ay'. Spanish >> makes it very clear in the spelling when it does. > > *Zot* Ouch. > You're forgetting norwegian again. E.g, in my name (where ei is a > diphthong, pronounced somewhat like 'æj' where 'æ' is like the first > sound of 'at'). OK, I promise not to do it again. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:39:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12647 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12641 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.39]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA6973 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:41:41 +0500 Message-ID: <368816D6.2C34B72E@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:40:06 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we distribute Java now ? References: <36881058.4F630F92@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I read it twice, it seems like we can ship it, but we better wait until next year (somewhen in Jan.) Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > It's late, but I found this: > http://java.sun.com/features/1998/12/source_license_QA.html > > Does this mean we can redistribute at least the JRE ? > > Pedro. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 15:54:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14586 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14580 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:53:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02994; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:53:51 -0800 (PST) To: Rick Siple cc: "Chat Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Re: FreeBSD DVD-ROMs on FreeBSD Mall In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:22:32 EST." <50D018439050D211AFB1006008CEB82D061611@EXCHANGESERVER> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:53:51 -0800 Message-ID: <2991.914889231@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Or is the announcement to gauge the interest in DVD support in > FreeBSD itself also? Yes. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 16:42:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22061 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:42:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22055 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:42:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02313; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:40:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:40:23 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:54:04PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:54:04PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:50 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > >I'm intrigued by your response. You've tactfully edited out my "c" > >word, but left your "f" word in all its vulgarity. > > Not because I found one to be any more or less offensive than > the other. The latter was the subject of the discussion. so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of conversation ? or just as long as it don't offend my crowd ? a vulgarity is a vulgarity, either you respect the people you are conversing with or you don't, tain't be put simpler than that. think about that one, for awhile. cheers jonathan, not known for thinking along accepted lines. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 17:04:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24386 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24381 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15762 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19981228170417.B15135@orcrist.mediacity.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:04:17 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au>; from jonathan michaels on Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: > > so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of conversation ? > > or just as long as it don't offend my crowd ? > > a vulgarity is a vulgarity, either you respect the people you are conversing > with or you don't, tain't be put simpler than that. _Someone_, somewhere, thinks that any given thing is vulgar. Therefore, either say nothing and be content in the knowledge that you've pleased people by not being vulgar[1], or fuck all that and say whatever kind of shit you want with no fucking regard to whether or not you've pissed off those pansy-ass mother fuckers. Greg, goddammit. [1] Naturally, since any given thing is vulgar, silence is of course a vulgarity as well. Ever hear the expression "you can please some of the people some of the time..."? -- Gregory S. Sutter Was Jimi's modem a Purple Hayes? mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 18:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29161 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:01:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29152 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA25461; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:00:54 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981229130049.59335@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:00:49 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: jonathan michaels Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au>; from jonathan michaels on Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:54:04PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:50 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > > > >I'm intrigued by your response. You've tactfully edited out my "c" > > >word, but left your "f" word in all its vulgarity. > > > > Not because I found one to be any more or less offensive than > > the other. The latter was the subject of the discussion. > > so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of conversation ? > > or just as long as it don't offend my crowd ? I'm not sure who you're pointing this at, Brett for doing what he explained above that he didn't do, or me for using language that would be less widely accepted than his. We both had the best opportunity to get snotty, but we didn't see that as valid in this context. > a vulgarity is a vulgarity, either you respect the people you are > conversing with or you don't, tain't be put simpler than that. Ah yes, but then we would have nothing upon which to practise tolerance :-) You'll find it's not so hot outside of the kitchen. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 20:09:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12042 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:09:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12032 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:09:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-1.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.1]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA21012; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:09:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA18625; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:55:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199812290255.UAA18625@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jonnie Coffman cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: packet radio In-reply-to: Message from Jonnie Coffman of "Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:45:22 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:55:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonnie Coffman writes: > > This seemed like the best place for this question. Can anyone > point me a web page or ftp site that has packet radio software for > FreeBSD? http://www.lantz.com/ is the home of the KO4KS version (TNOS) of the classic KA9Q NET/NOS code. Its been several years since I last ran it. And apparently exactly that long since anybody forwarded FreeBSD patches to Brian Lantz KO4KS. This week Brian announced he is retiring from amateur radio in order to get his life and health back together. Lots of good amateur radio stuff (including TNOS) is (at least it used to be, haven't looked lately) mirrored at ftp.ucsd.edu. And Walnut Creek also has an Amateur Radio collection, ftp.cdrom.com, and probably includes TNOS. TNOS 2.30 does not cleanly compile under FreeBSD. They are not major problems, just the difference between Linux and FreeBSD. You'll find the source code is already sprinkled with #ifdef BSD's and #ifdef FreeBSD, and there is a made.inc-FreeBSD file which takes care of most of the problems. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 28 20:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15071 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:42:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newport-1-5.quick.net (newport-1-5.quick.net [207.212.160.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15066 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josh@newport-1-5.quick.net) Received: (from josh@localhost) by newport-1-5.quick.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA08817; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:41:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josh) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:41:47 -0800 From: Josh Gilliam To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spelling question Message-ID: <19981228204147.A8433@newport-1-5.quick.net> References: <19981223105416.A9470@dragon.nuxi.com> <19981228182541.B8797@panke.de.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.16i In-Reply-To: <19981228182541.B8797@panke.de.freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Sorry to spam this list, but I'm hoping some on this list are > > particularly strong in spelling. Is ``corelation'' really an accepted > > spelling? It in my Random House dictionary, WWWebster Dictionary > > (http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm), nor Solaris's dict/words. If not, I > > want to remove these spellings from our dict/words. > > You can ask altavista which spelling is prefered by the > majority of the Internet users. If the ratio is less than 1:10 > both spellings are accepted. Hmm. That ratio seems a bit 'high' to judge incorrect usage. (current) Berkeley Standard Distribution: 205 Berkeley Software Distribution: 1926 (23 Apr 1998) Berkeley Standard Distribution: 191 Berkeley Software Distribution: 724 (Correct usage is Berkeley Software Distribution, of course.) -- Josh Gilliam 6745 Washington Ave #198 1 626 968 5232 Whittier CA 90601-4325 USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 03:31:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19825 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:31:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19816 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03316; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:28:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19981229222858.B3239@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:28:58 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> <19981228170417.B15135@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981228170417.B15135@orcrist.mediacity.com>; from Gregory Sutter on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 05:04:17PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 05:04:17PM -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: > > > > so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of conversation ? > > > > or just as long as it don't offend my crowd ? > > > > a vulgarity is a vulgarity, either you respect the people you are conversing > > with or you don't, tain't be put simpler than that. > > _Someone_, somewhere, thinks that any given thing is vulgar. Therefore, > either say nothing and be content in the knowledge that you've pleased > people by not being vulgar[1], or fuck all that and say whatever kind > of shit you want with no fucking regard to whether or not you've > pissed off those pansy-ass mother fuckers. well said, i was going to say something of that order od simplicity, but my mean guilt streak sort of had other ideas. > > Greg, goddammit. > > [1] Naturally, since any given thing is vulgar, silence is of course > a vulgarity as well. Ever hear the expression "you can please some > of the people some of the time..."? this is what i was alluding too, somehow it didn't, er, sort of come out. cheers jonathan, pondering the silance off a vulgar disposition. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 03:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20996 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:51:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20991 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03360; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:49:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19981229224934.D3239@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:49:34 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> <19981229130049.59335@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981229130049.59335@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 01:00:49PM +1100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 01:00:49PM +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 11:40:23AM +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 02:54:04PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > > At 08:50 AM 12/27/98 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > > > > > > >I'm intrigued by your response. You've tactfully edited out my "c" > > > >word, but left your "f" word in all its vulgarity. > > > > > > Not because I found one to be any more or less offensive than > > > the other. The latter was the subject of the discussion. > > > > so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of conversation ? > > > > or just as long as it don't offend my crowd ? > > I'm not sure who you're pointing this at, Brett for doing what he > explained above that he didn't do, or me for using language > that would be less widely accepted than his. looks like i've stuck my beek in where it dosnt belong, yet again. > We both had the best opportunity to get snotty, but we didn't see that > as valid in this context. you all use words that you don't what they mean, and when pulled up, you al close ranks, typical, i suppose of those who are so undereducated. > > a vulgarity is a vulgarity, either you respect the people you are > > conversing with or you don't, tain't be put simpler than that. > > Ah yes, but then we would have nothing upon which to practise tolerance :-) > > You'll find it's not so hot outside of the kitchen. i've waited tables in the cafe at the gates of hell, longer than most have been alive, i know about hot kitchens. as i've observed, as long as one tows the line, keeps quite and uses the words as per rote, then al is well, ask a simple question and you get painted all sorts of colours. what is it with you "dude's" are you all so fragile that you need to hide behind all these facades ? anyway, please don't reply, i'm like this i real life as well and i've enjoyed my bit, and as i've had it so elegantly pointed out to me yet again, i don't belong i'm going .. have fun. take care, all jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 04:27:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25668 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:27:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [209.244.238.132] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25663 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:27:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA05086; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:24:05 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199812291224.HAA05086@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: linux ps(1) for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19981229212208.V32696@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 29, 98 09:22:08 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:24:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Is Larry Ellison still alive? Yes, he won. (For those wondering: He was in the yacht race in Australia that ran into the horrific weather) Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 06:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04599 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 06:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04594 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 06:22:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.0]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3ADF; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:52:38 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981228105649.T12346@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:59:24 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Crazy laws (was: Tobacco addiction (was: Regulated names (wa Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 28-Dec-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 15:34:52 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> Greg Lehey writes: >>> On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 22:54:00 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>>> And how long has this regulated name thing been going on? :-) >>> You mean the original topic? Names in Germany? Probably forever. >> >> Norway, Greg, *Norway* :) > > Ah, right. So what was the answer? We _had_ an answer? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Life is the only Pain asmodai(at)wxs.nl we endeavour... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 08:39:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16500 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-132.airnet.net [207.242.81.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16494 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00970; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:38:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36890587.637B0642@airnet.net> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:38:31 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and > support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. If you must, boot Windows. That's what I've been doing. For some odd reason, Windows seems to be one of those "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" situations. At least thats been my experience. Oh, don't get me started on networking Windows. :-) Course, when you go from vid_mode 0 to vid_mode 12 (320x200 to 640x480 for you non-Quake people) then to GL... (For non-Quake people: 640x480 3D rendered.) I have a Voodoo2, but I'm not holding my breath. It would be real nice if Luigi's driver had no audio delay and had mmap() support. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 10:00:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24213 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:00:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24206 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:00:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4045.ime.net [209.90.195.55]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04655; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:00:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981229125311.00c42eb0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:57:38 -0500 To: Kris Kirby From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36890587.637B0642@airnet.net> References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:38 AM 12/29/98 -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: >Drew Baxter wrote: >> If you can get 85+% of the software on the market to work on FreeBSD, and >> support my Voodoo2 card, I'll switch.. > >If you must, boot Windows. That's what I've been doing. For some odd >reason, Windows seems to be one of those "If it ain't broke, don't fix >it" situations. At least thats been my experience. Oh, don't get me >started on networking Windows. :-) Well see, we have a topology of windows machines here.. That's just how it is. In my house there's 6 machines alone, then bridged from OneEX/Bangor to OneEX/OCSNet, and there's another 30 there. One of the objectives of the house network is gaming, as well as printing and mp3, and other file sharing. I also test products for Intel, and a few other companies, most of which say "Windows 95 or better" for requirements. >Course, when you go from vid_mode 0 to vid_mode 12 (320x200 to 640x480 >for you non-Quake people) then to GL... (For non-Quake people: 640x480 >3D rendered.) I have a Voodoo2, but I'm not holding my breath. It >would be real nice if Luigi's driver had no audio delay and had mmap() >support. I ger 48.1 fps at 640x480 in GLQuake.. Not bad.. Canopus Pure 3dII Overclocked (They gave me a fan with it, figured I might as well try to wreck the board). I'd imagine it'd perform a tad better if it wasn't running Windows, but too lazy to take the trek and install X on the machine down there to find out. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 17:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13101 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13096 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zvAnC-0000v8-00; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:51:23 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA00883; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:50:49 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06469; Wed, 30 Dec 98 01:50:46 GMT Message-Id: <368AD896.DD6E59C9@uk.radan.com> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:51:18 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter Cc: Kris Kirby , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981229125311.00c42eb0@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Baxter wrote: > > most of which say "Windows 95 or better" for requirements. Well, FreeBSD is definitaly better :-) Sorry, just couldn't resist it > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 17:54:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13480 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:54:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13475 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:54:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4045.ime.net [209.90.195.55]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00674; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:54:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981229205048.00a10ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:51:20 -0500 To: Mark Ovens From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: This just in: Microsoft/Sears Merger Cc: Kris Kirby , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <368AD896.DD6E59C9@uk.radan.com> References: <4.1.19981219173154.06b97f10@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981221204651.00acf510@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19981229125311.00c42eb0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:51 AM 12/31/98 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >Well, FreeBSD is definitaly better :-) > >Sorry, just couldn't resist it Hehehe.. :-) yeah.. I shoulda said greater.. that'd probably work too. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 29 19:05:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19538 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19533 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RCareaga@aol.com) From: RCareaga@aol.com Received: from RCareaga@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5CTUa19752 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:04:57 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <80a16343.36899859@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:04:57 EST To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Form Response Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 67 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA19534 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ¡ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 30 00:48:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20897 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20892 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA16711; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:48:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981230005726.03e58160@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:01:05 -0700 To: jonathan michaels , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) In-Reply-To: <19981229114023.B1976@caamora.com.au> References: <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225064918.05738f10@127.0.0.1> <19981226021926.65101@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981225180656.05a34790@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981225190800.058aee00@mail.lariat.org> <36852104.F849F0E5@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981226110528.05881580@mail.lariat.org> <19981227080030.58332@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226141941.058890f0@mail.lariat.org> <19981227085040.45844@welearn.com.au> <4.1.19981226145152.0581f5c0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:40 AM 12/29/98 +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: >so its ok to use vulgarities when they are teh topic of >conversation ? Absolutely. Even the most sensitive of us should be able to realize that they're being DISCUSSED, not hurled at one another. If he or she can't, that person will not be able to participate in a discussion of any difficult, painful, or even significant topic. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 30 14:39:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10034 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10029 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:39:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) From: scanner@jurai.net Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21140 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:38:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:38:40 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: URL for v.90 flash upgrade for hayes modems? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know this is not freebsd related but I thought someone might have the flash upgrade or a URL for it that works. So if anyone has the v.90 flash upgrade for the Hayes Accura 56K External + FAX modem model #5674US Or the URL other than the www.56kstandard.com url since hayes' server that has the upgrade has been down for a week. I need this flash to get back my net feed to US WORST since they upgraded all their pops to v.90 and now my poor hays does not want to work anymore :-) Any help is appareciated. Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 31 06:22:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04445 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04440 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:22:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA12831; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:20:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990101012032.C12714@caamora.com.au> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:20:32 -874900 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux ps(1) for FreeBSD Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19981229212208.V32696@freebie.lemis.com> <199812291224.HAA05086@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199812291224.HAA05086@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 07:24:04AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 07:24:04AM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > Is Larry Ellison still alive? drats we didn't try hard enought .. gotta get that geostationary weather altering sattallite fix for next years attempt .. we might be able to sink'em all. > > Yes, he won. thats interesting we wont have the results for a few days yet, first past the post means noting in teh sydeny hobart ... its a handicap race. > (For those wondering: He was in the yacht race in Australia that ran into > the horrific weather) not horrible, its normally like that, this year i came a few days earlier than expected. anyone can point the sharp end into the wind, it takes a sailor to get through real weather. forgive my sarcam .. i have friends who work in that part of teh world, diging out weekend warriors with more money than brains .. everybody expects teh navy to be thier when the sunday afternoon sailors get into a little real weather. instead of thier sunday afternoon stroll done the coast. none writes up teh sailors lost at sea recovering the larry ellisons of this world. regards jonathan, one of teh people who paid for his rescue. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 31 10:00:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26779 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26771 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:00:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA27735; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:55:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: Josh Gilliam cc: Wolfram Schneider , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: spelling question In-Reply-To: <19981228204147.A8433@newport-1-5.quick.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Josh Gilliam wrote: > > > Sorry to spam this list, but I'm hoping some on this list are > > > particularly strong in spelling. Is ``corelation'' really an accepted > > > spelling? It in my Random House dictionary, WWWebster Dictionary > > > (http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm), nor Solaris's dict/words. If not, I > > > want to remove these spellings from our dict/words. According to my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, "corelation" is primarily British. I would not include it in a U.S.-English spell-checking dictionary. Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 31 13:39:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22392 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:39:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22383; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id QAA10609; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:38:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19981231163829.A10595@tidalwave.net> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:38:29 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: Chuck Robey , "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: alexandr@mail.eecis.udel.edu, dcs@newsguy.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: M$ taking IBM's place (was: Re: HEADS UP: Postfix is coming. new uid, gid required.) Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <199812311832.KAA01002@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on Thu, Dec 31, 1998 at 04:19:35PM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat for my own good] On Thu, Dec 31, 1998 at 04:19:35PM -0500, Chuck Robey wrote: > Times are changing, and IBM is not the boogie-man they used to be. You > honestly ought to web-surf the IBM site, all the free and technically > extremely interesting stuff there will take a good long while to read > through. Microsoft has very neatly taken their place as the boogie-man. THey're right where IBM was 20 years ago. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet)| | lcremean@tidalwave.net| http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 31 20:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27418 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27413 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.sh) id UAA20215 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:09:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19981231200909.A19222@best.com> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:09:09 +875200 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Happy (FreeBSD) 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, It is 8pm here in North California, just 4 hours before the clock turns to 1999. Just wanted to wish you all a happy new years and to thank everyone who in one way or another helped to make FreeBSD the OS it is now. Looking back at 1998, one could say that it was a year of major changes: -release with SMP, CAM, ELF and many other changes was made. Looking forward at 1999: that -release will become stable. So, may 1999 bring FreeBSD many new users, a lot of commercial support and the end of the 'sendmail vs postfix' thread. Happy New Year everyone! -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 31 20:25:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28515 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28510 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:25:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18825; Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199901010424.UAA18825@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Happy (FreeBSD) 1999 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:09:09." <19981231200909.A19222@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:24:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Happy New Year! From Bettina & Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message