From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:03:41 1998
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To: Damon Permezel <dap@damon.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:03:31 CST."
<199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com>
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Try surfing around the Intel Web site :
"This manual describes the instruction set and the opcode structure, including
the new Intel MMX(TM) technology instruction set,
for Intel Architecture ..."
http://developer.intel.com/design/mmx/manuals/243191.htm
Look around their ftp site for other stuff related to what you want to do.
Most likely for low end processors the mmx instruction set is used
for scaling and yuv to rgb conversion .
The manual is in acrobat format and you will need the linux version of
acroread if you want to read the doc. If you have any problems locating
acroread e-mail me.
Happy downloading 8)
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:04:48 1998
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To: Damon Permezel <dap@damon.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:03:31 CST."
<199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com>
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted
patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search
over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it.
Cheers,
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 00:27:12 1998
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From: Damon Permezel <dap@damon.com>
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Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
In-Reply-To: <199802080736.AAA28517@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 8, 98 07:36:33 am"
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:26:59 -0600 (CST)
Cc: dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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"Terry Lambert sez: "
> MMX resuses the FP registers. This is because they couldn't define new
> registers because new registers would not get saved and restored on
> process context switch for any existing OS's.
>
> Thus if you use FP, you can not use MMX, and vice versa.
I've just recoded it all to use fixed point, in anticipation of
being able to use multiply-accumulate with MMX.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 02:39:02 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu>
To: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: what about future domain?
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:34:10 -0500
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sorry to ask, but did any support ever surface for the Future Domain scsi
controllers? who can i contact?
-Alfred
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 02:58:00 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net
Subject: bsd.prog.mk for new global(1)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 19:56:41 +0900
From: Shigio Yamaguchi <shigio@wafu.netgate.net>
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Now, global(1) in -current can understand 'obj' directory of BSD build system,
you can put tag files in 'obj' directory.
For example,
% cd /usr/src/sys
% gtags /usr/obj/usr/src/sys <- make tag files in 'obj' directory.
% ls GTAGS
ls: GTAGS: No such file or directory
% global -x fork
fork 86 kern/kern_fork.c fork(p, uap, retval)
So, following modification would be useful, I think.
[/usr/share/mk/bsd.prog.mk]
.if !target(tags)
tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR
.if defined(PROG)
cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} ...(1)
.if defined(HTML)
cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} ...(2)
.endif
.endif
.endif
(1) Gtags put tag files in ${.OBJDIR}.
(2) Htags locates tag files in ${.OBJDIR} and put hypertext in ${.OBJDIR}.
[/usr/share/mk/sys.mk]
# For tags rule.
GTAGSFLAGS= -o
HTAGSFLAGS=
-o option suppress making GSYMS file (it's very large).
What do you think?
--
Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer)
Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 03:32:11 1998
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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:18:15 +0100
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
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References: <199802080503.XAA10438@damon.com> <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:04:39AM -0800
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According to Amancio Hasty:
> Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted
> patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search
> over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it.
Look into the PR list, it was submitted as such.
The alternative is to use binutils-2.8.1, the GNU as there understands MMX
instructions.
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #56: Fri Feb 6 21:36:56 CET 1998
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 09:18:14 1998
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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:17:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen J. Roznowski" <sjr@home.net>
Message-Id: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Possible problems with sysctl
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While looking at some sysctl output, I noticed two problem:
1. sysctl can only output signed integers. For example, the output
of "sysctl kern.ps_strings" is "-272637968" not "0xefbfdff0" as
I suspect is meant. Assuming that this is an error, I see two
ways of fixing it, either adding a "CTLTYPE_UINT" type, or a
"CTLTYPE_ADDR" type. [I lean towards the _ADDR fix]
Am I correct in assuming that sysctl is outputing the wrong
format here, and is one of these fixes perferred?
[I'm willing to attempt to generate a send-pr for this]
2. The man pages, both sysctl(3) and sysctl(8), are out of date.
[No definitation of what kern.ps_strings is for example.] Is there
a list anywhere of what these variables are (modulo source code)?
Again, I'm willing to send-pr this, unless someone else wants to... :-)
Thanks,
-SR
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 10:15:16 1998
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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:08:04 +0000
To: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu>
From: Bob Bishop <rb@gid.co.uk>
Subject: Re: what about future domain?
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 10:34 am +0000 8/2/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote:
>sorry to ask, but did any support ever surface for the Future Domain scsi
>controllers? who can i contact?
http://www.sbox.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rmike/freebsd/welcome.html
--
Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118
rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:22:08 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802081951.UAA13052@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings)
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:51:05 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 7, 98 02:54:34 pm
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> Ok, just to put some perspective on things, so that people understand
> the situation.
>
> The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not
> exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or
> 7168 bytes.
>
> Let us look at some sizes (in bytes). The 'Bare' bootblock has serial
> console support, but nothing else fancy.
>
> Config Size Feature bulk
> ------ ---- ------------
> Bare 6560 0 (room for 608 bytes)
is this /usr/mdec/boot2 ? In which case, why (on 2.2.1 at least) the
first 512 bytes are all zero ?
(for the records, I was playing these days with simple compression
algorithms, like the "pred.c" in iijppp, or some other simple things
(so that the code to uncompress is reasonably small) but the savings
are not big (perhaps 100 bytes, including the extractor overhead). This
excludes the first 512 zeros, which probably can be easily ripped off ?
cheers
luigi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:33:55 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings)
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:51:05 +0100."
<199802081951.UAA13052@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 13:32:20 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > Let us look at some sizes (in bytes). The 'Bare' bootblock has serial
> > console support, but nothing else fancy.
> >
> > Config Size Feature bulk
> > ------ ---- ------------
> > Bare 6560 0 (room for 608 bytes)
>
> is this /usr/mdec/boot2 ? In which case, why (on 2.2.1 at least) the
> first 512 bytes are all zero ?
So that the bootblock can live in the same area of the disk as a disklabel.
> (for the records, I was playing these days with simple compression
> algorithms, like the "pred.c" in iijppp, or some other simple things
> (so that the code to uncompress is reasonably small) but the savings
> are not big (perhaps 100 bytes, including the extractor overhead). This
> excludes the first 512 zeros, which probably can be easily ripped off ?
In my case at least, that part of the disk is not actually empty:
00000200 57 45 56 82 05 00 00 00 77 64 30 73 32 00 00 00 |WEV.....wd0s2...|
00000210 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
00000220 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 3f 00 00 00 |............?...|
00000230 40 00 00 00 bd 01 00 00 c0 0f 00 00 c0 60 1b 00 |@............`..|
00000240 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 0e 01 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
00000250 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
*
00000280 00 00 00 00 57 45 56 82 a9 95 08 00 00 20 00 00 |....WEV...... ..|
00000290 00 20 00 00 00 f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |. ..............|
000002a0 07 00 00 00 00 20 03 00 00 f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 |..... ..........|
000002b0 01 00 00 00 c0 60 1b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.....`..........|
000002c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
000002d0 00 00 00 00 00 d0 07 00 00 10 04 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
000002e0 07 00 00 00 c0 80 0f 00 00 e0 0b 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
000002f0 07 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
00000300 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
*
The first four bytes there are DISKMAGIC (see /sys/sys/disklabel.h).
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 13:39:42 1998
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Message-ID: <19980208223929.01276@follo.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:39:29 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: "Stephen J. Roznowski" <sjr@home.net>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Possible problems with sysctl
References: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net>
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In-Reply-To: <199802081717.MAA02604@istari.home.net>; from Stephen J. Roznowski on Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:17:33PM -0500
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On Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:17:33PM -0500, Stephen J. Roznowski wrote:
> While looking at some sysctl output, I noticed two problem:
>
[problem I don't know anything about zipped]
>
> 2. The man pages, both sysctl(3) and sysctl(8), are out of date.
> [No definitation of what kern.ps_strings is for example.] Is there
> a list anywhere of what these variables are (modulo source code)?
> Again, I'm willing to send-pr this, unless someone else wants to... :-)
There is no list except for the source code. We were talking about
this on the list a few weeks ago, and came up with the following as
the preferred implementation:
1. All sysctl variables in the source code should be documented
through either an extra argument or a formalized comment. Preferences
varied; I prefer the extra argument. Such an argument would normally
not be included in the actual running kernel.
2. The above mentioned documentation should be extracted to a file in
CVS that is copied to /usr/share/<something>/<something> by a script
that parse the kernel source.
At least some of the committers has said themselves willing to
document whatever sysctl's they've introduced as soon as the format is
fixed and the infrastructure is in place.
I've put writing the necessary parsing scripts on my mental TODO-list,
but it will be some time before I can do it; I have other things that
have to be prioritized higher. If you have time and ability to write
such a script, I'd be very happy if you took it off my hands. I'll be
able to provide help if necessary, but I don't have time right now to
just sit down and fix it all.
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:05:40 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802090004.WAA11233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: byte ordering and talk?
In-Reply-To: <199802071416.PAA04586@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Feb 7, 98 03:16:22 pm"
To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:04:15 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, adrian@obiwan.creative.net.au, rssh@grad.kiev.ua,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Mikael Karpberg)
// > 2: ntalk/talk there are 2 differnt talk protocols, everyone uses one
// > (can't remember), sun uses the other. (check /etc/inetd.conf and
// > /etc/services, they bind to different ports.)
//
// Everyone uses ntalk, except for SUN.
// So go install ntalk on the SUN machines, and you'll be fine.
Easy to do, when you are the SUN machines' admin, but I'd like to have
otalk available to be able to talk to people without a good admin. :(
Does somebody know where I can find the sources for the old talk
protocol ? I'd make a port of it, if Core Team thinks it's not
worth putting into the core distribution.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:17:07 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802090015.WAA11315@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: bin/5448 /etc/monthly reports are incorrect
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980205213750.294c-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 5, 98 09:44:40 pm"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:15:39 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan)
// I'd like to propose the files below as new /etc/monthly and
// /etc/periodic/monthly/200.accounting, pending development of a logrotate
// command. I don't think I'll get logrotate done in time for 2.2.6, but I
// think that the current system of rotating wtmp in /etc/newsyslog.conf,
// and generating "monthly" reports of account activity leaves a lot to be
// desired. This will allow PRs 1708, 1941 and 5448 to be closed.
It's ok for 1708 and 5448, but I can't see how this solves 1941.
The pending for a real logrotate will make easier to have this
kind of report weekly instead of monthly. Just change the script
directory.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:19:29 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802090018.WAA11332@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802052006.MAA10605@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Feb 5, 98 12:06:28 pm"
To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:18:52 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Archie Cobbs)
// Marc Slemko writes:
// > Feb 4 16:08:27 zaius /kernel: ipfw: 320 Deny UDP 199.170.121.15:14592 198.161.84.2:2 in via de0 Fragment = 29
// >
// > Trust me, those port numbers are not right. ipfw should not log the
// > port number if a packet is a fragment.
//
// Good point... patch below fixes it.
Maybe a stupid question:
If you filter by port, only the first frag may be filtered. Then, what will
happen to the destination machine, receiving lots of incomplete packets ?
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 16:40:00 1998
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
cc: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
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On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> #define quoting(Archie Cobbs)
> // Marc Slemko writes:
> // > Feb 4 16:08:27 zaius /kernel: ipfw: 320 Deny UDP 199.170.121.15:14592 198.161.84.2:2 in via de0 Fragment = 29
> // >
> // > Trust me, those port numbers are not right. ipfw should not log the
> // > port number if a packet is a fragment.
> //
> // Good point... patch below fixes it.
>
> Maybe a stupid question:
>
> If you filter by port, only the first frag may be filtered. Then, what will
> happen to the destination machine, receiving lots of incomplete packets ?
If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will
break some things, but is the safest way.
If you do tell it to pass them, then it will. There is no real problem
(except for possible memory use, etc.) if a host gets fragements for a
packet; if it doesn't get the first part, it will not do anything with
them.
See RFC-1858 for a discussion of some of the potential catches to
fragmentation and firewalls.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 18:00:35 1998
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From: Andrew Reilly <reilly@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199802082254.JAA03377@gurney.reilly.home>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:54:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
To: tlambert@primenet.com
cc: dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On 8 Feb, Terry Lambert wrote:
> MMX resuses the FP registers. This is because they couldn't define new
> registers because new registers would not get saved and restored on
> process context switch for any existing OS's.
>
> Thus if you use FP, you can not use MMX, and vice versa.
MMX and the virtues of integer math aside, I have a question for the
kernel hackers:
Just how hard would it be to be able to build a special case FreeBSD
kernel that knew how to save some extra registers at a context switch?
Aparently there's to be a new version of the IDT Centaur C6 later this
year that allows you to map the floating point stack into seven of
about _30_ real, indexable floating point registers, and matches this
with pipelined, single-cylce-dispatch multiply-accumulate instructions.
For the sort of work that I do, this would be the absolute bees knees.
Acording to Byte, they plan to get around the problem of Windows (NT)
not saving the extra state by making sure that you only use it inside
their Direct3D libraries, but that seems like a dumb option for a
system like FreeBSD that is fully re-compilable, and therefore readily
able to take advantage of developments like this...
--
Andrew
"The steady state of disks is full."
-- Ken Thompson
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 19:45:22 1998
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Reply-To: "Jason" <jason_smethers@bigfoot.com>
From: "Jason" <jason_smethers@bigfoot.com>
To: <hackers@FreeBSD.com>
Subject: userland updates
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:33:54 -0600
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------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080
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I have some diffs to cat, chio, and cp. If someone with commit privledges
would like to look 'em over and commit...
These incorperate some fixes and most noteably the ielem option to chio.
heres the diffs...
------=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD34D9.4174C080
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:01:55 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802090600.WAA12310@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980208173653.18733P-100000@alive.znep.com> from Marc Slemko at "Feb 8, 98 05:38:42 pm"
To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:00:53 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Marc Slemko writes:
> If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will
> break some things, but is the safest way.
This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset
is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary
fragments... that would be a serious problem.
> There is no real problem
> (except for possible memory use, etc.) if a host gets fragements for a
> packet; if it doesn't get the first part, it will not do anything with
> them.
This is true.
> See RFC-1858 for a discussion of some of the potential catches to
> fragmentation and firewalls.
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:18:01 1998
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802090600.WAA12310@bubba.whistle.com>
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On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote:
> Marc Slemko writes:
> > If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will
> > break some things, but is the safest way.
>
> This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset
> is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary
> fragments... that would be a serious problem.
Ok, let me clarify that statement.
First, ipfw always blocks certain types of fragments that are used only to
bypass firewalls.
Second, it will block any fragment that _could_ match any deny rule even
if it has incomplete information so it doesn't know that it _does_ match
the rule. Since the tcp header is normally only in the first fragment, if
you block access to a specific port then ipfw can't know if subsequent
fragments are to that port or not so it blocks them. You need to add an
explicit rule to allow it to pass such fragments if the risk is acceptable
to you.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:24:34 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:23:45 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@FreeBSD.ORG>
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
In-Reply-To: <199802061241.EAA24833@freefall.freebsd.org>
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Eivind,
I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging
separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an
assertion checking kernel without all the logging.
Do you think that DIAGNOSTICS can be separated into these 2 categories
without upsetting too many people?
What does DEBUG do? Can all sanity checks be moved to DEBUG?
This would give us more clearly defined debugging flags:
DIAGNOSTICS - Debug logging
DEBUG - Sanity checks
DDS - GDB callable debug functions.
Regards,
Mike Hancock
On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> eivind 1998/02/06 04:41:39 PST
>
> Modified files:
> sys/conf options
> Log:
> Throw DEBUG and DIAGNOSTIC in opt_global.h
>
> Revision Changes Path
> 1.59 +4 -3 src/sys/conf/options
>
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 8 22:51:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:51:27 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@FreeBSD.ORG>
To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote:
> Eivind,
>
> I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging
> separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an
> assertion checking kernel without all the logging.
Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of
_INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
_ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount.
The difference between _INVARIANTS and INVARIANT_CODE is that INVARIANT_CODE
just includes the actual code necessary to be able to check an invariant,
while _INVARIANTS actually throw in the code that do calls to check the
invariant.
The reason for the underscores is that header files are likely to depend on
those options. The separation of the INVARIANT_CODE and _INVARIANTS is to
be able to support enabling invariant-checks in only some files. Separation
of _INVARIANTS and _ASSERTS is that there is often a factor of >1000
difference between the cost of checking pre-conditions and the cost of
checking post-conditions/data-structure invariants.
Example of how the above would affect source-code:
The following would be the diffs to kern/tty_subr.c to implement a
clist invariant. (It is some of the code I've got lying around of
the type nobody-seems-to-be-interested-so-I-won't-commit-it-until-
it-seems-I-can-find-a-nice-way-to-fit-it-in).
Index: tty_subr.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/tty_subr.c,v
retrieving revision 1.28
diff -u -r1.28 tty_subr.c
--- tty_subr.c 1997/10/12 20:24:09 1.28
+++ tty_subr.c 1998/02/09 06:37:34
@@ -112,6 +112,10 @@
cblock_free(cblockp)
struct cblock *cblockp;
{
+#ifdef _ASSERTS
+ if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1))
+ panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free");
+#endif
if (isset(cblockp->c_quote, CBQSIZE * NBBY - 1))
bzero(cblockp->c_quote, sizeof cblockp->c_quote);
cblockp->c_next = cfreelist;
@@ -136,6 +140,10 @@
"clist_alloc_cblocks: M_NOWAIT malloc failed, trying M_WAITOK\n");
cbp = malloc(sizeof *cbp, M_TTYS, M_WAITOK);
}
+#ifdef _ASSERTS
+ if ((unsigned long)cbp & (CBLOCK-1))
+ panic("Unaligned cblock alloced in cblock_alloc_cblocks");
+#endif
/*
* Freed cblocks have zero quotes and garbage elsewhere.
* Set the may-have-quote bit to force zeroing the quotes.
@@ -260,6 +268,117 @@
return (chr);
}
+#if defined(INVARIANT_CODE) || defined(_INVARIANTS)
+/* Verify the clist invariant. Will panic if passed an invalid clist.
+ Intended for debugging of tty-drivers. */
+void
+clist_invariant(
+ struct clist *clistp, /* clist to verify */
+ char *descr /* Section of program causing panic */
+) {
+ struct cblock *cblockp; /* Presently examined cblock */
+ struct cblock *cblockp2; /* Loop limit cblock */
+ int real_cc; /* Real character count */
+ int max_loop; /* Number of cblocks to check (max) */
+
+ if (descr == NULL)
+ descr = "undescribed";
+
+ if (clistp == NULL)
+ panic("clist invariant: NULL clist in %s", descr);
+
+ /* Check for negative counts */
+ if (clistp->c_cc < 0)
+ panic("clist invariant: negative character count(%d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cc, descr);
+ if (clistp->c_cbcount < 0)
+ panic("clist invariant: negative block count (%d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbcount, descr);
+ if (clistp->c_cbmax < 0)
+ panic("clist invariant: negative max block count (%d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbmax, descr);
+ if (clistp->c_cbreserved < 0)
+ panic("clist invariant: negative reserved block count (%d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbreserved, descr);
+
+ /* Check for generally invalid counts */
+
+ if (clistp->c_cc && roundup(clistp->c_cc, CBSIZE) / CBSIZE > clistp->c_cbcount)
+ panic("clist invariant: too few cblocks for c_cc (%d vs %d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cc, descr);
+ if (roundup(clistp->c_cc, CBSIZE) / CBSIZE + 2 < clistp->c_cbcount)
+ panic("clist invariant: too many cblocks for c_cc (%d vs %d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cc, descr);
+ if (clistp->c_cbcount > clistp->c_cbmax)
+ panic("clist invariant: more cblocks than cb_max (%d vs %d) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cbcount, clistp->c_cbmax, descr);
+
+ if (clistp->c_cc == 0) {
+ if (clistp->c_cf && clistp->c_cl &&
+ clistp->c_cf != clistp->c_cl)
+ panic("clist invariant: cf (%p) and cl (%p) differ for empty clist in %s",
+ clistp->c_cf, clistp->c_cl, descr);
+ return;
+ }
+ if (clistp->c_cf == NULL)
+ panic("clist invariant: cf is NULL with c_cc=%d (cl=%p) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cc, clistp->c_cl, descr);
+ if (clistp->c_cl == NULL)
+ panic("clist invariant: cl is NULL with c_cc=%d (cf=%p) in %s",
+ clistp->c_cc, clistp->c_cf, descr);
+
+ /* Traverse clist to find actual character count and verify that the
+ last pointer exists */
+ cblockp = (struct cblock *)((unsigned long)clistp->c_cf & ~CROUND);
+ real_cc = (char*)cblockp->c_info - clistp->c_cf;
+ if (real_cc > 0)
+ panic("clist invariant: cf (%p) points outside c_info block in %s",
+ clistp->c_cf, descr);
+
+ /* Limit looping */
+ max_loop = clistp->c_cbcount*2 + 2;
+ cblockp2 = cblockp;
+
+ while (cblockp) {
+ if ((void*)clistp->c_cl > (void*)cblockp &&
+ (char*)clistp->c_cl <= (char*)cblockp + CBLOCK) {
+
+ /* We've found the last block in the list - handle character
+ count and other checks */
+ if (clistp->c_cl < (char*)cblockp->c_info)
+ panic("clist invariant: cl (%p) points outside c_info block in %s",
+ clistp->c_cl);
+ real_cc += clistp->c_cl - (char*)cblockp->c_info;
+ if (real_cc != clistp->c_cc)
+ panic("clist invariant: real cc (%d) does not match c_cc (%d) in %s",
+ real_cc, clistp->c_cc, descr);
+ if (cblockp->c_next)
+ panic("clist invariant: non-NULL c_next (%p) on last cblock in %s",
+ cblockp->c_next, descr);
+ /* Invariant OK */
+ return;
+ }
+
+ /* Increase character count */
+ real_cc += CBSIZE;
+ if (max_loop-- <= 0) {
+ panic("clist invariant: too long ");
+ }
+ cblockp = cblockp->c_next;
+ if (cblockp == cblockp2)
+ panic("clist invariant: loop in clist (%p) in %s",
+ clistp, descr);
+ if ((max_loop & 1) == 0) {
+ cblockp2 = cblockp2->c_next;
+ }
+ if (cblockp == cblockp2)
+ panic("clist invariant: loop in clist (%p) in %s",
+ clistp, descr);
+ }
+ panic("clist invariant: terminated before finding c_cl");
+}
+#endif
+
/*
* Copy 'amount' of chars, beginning at head of clist 'clistp' to
* destination linear buffer 'dest'. Return number of characters
@@ -277,8 +396,15 @@
int numc;
int s;
+#ifdef _ASSERTS
+ if (dest == NULL)
+ panic("destination is NULL in q_to_b");
+#endif
s = spltty();
+#ifdef _INVARIANTS
+ clist_invariant(clistp, "q_to_b");
+#endif
while (clistp && amount && (clistp->c_cc > 0)) {
cblockp = (struct cblock *)((long)clistp->c_cf & ~CROUND);
cblockn = cblockp + 1; /* pointer arithmetic! */
@@ -435,6 +561,10 @@
int startbit, endbit, num_between, numc;
int s;
+#ifdef _ASSERTS
+ if (src == NULL)
+ panic("clist b_to_q on NULL block");
+#endif
/*
* Avoid allocating an initial cblock and then not using it.
* c_cc == 0 must imply c_cbount == 0.
@@ -444,6 +574,9 @@
s = spltty();
+#ifdef _INVARIANTS
+ clist_invariant(clistp, "b_to_q");
+#endif
/*
* If there are no cblocks assigned to this clist yet,
* then get one.
> Do you think that DIAGNOSTICS can be separated into these 2 categories
> without upsetting too many people?
I haven't got a clue. I've been planning to try it, though. Do the above
scheme look good to you?
> What does DEBUG do? Can all sanity checks be moved to DEBUG?
DEBUG does an insane pletoria of different things, all depending on what the
driver-author (or whatever) wanted it to do. It usually turn on insane
amounts of debugging information.
> This would give us more clearly defined debugging flags:
>
> DIAGNOSTICS - Debug logging
> DEBUG - Sanity checks
> DDS - GDB callable debug functions.
I like the distinctions, but not the names :-)
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:24:04 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:27:14 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@FreeBSD.ORG>
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
In-Reply-To: <19980209075127.63680@follo.net>
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On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote:
> > Eivind,
> >
> > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging
> > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an
> > assertion checking kernel without all the logging.
>
> Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of
>
> _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
> _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
> INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost.
I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in
practice.
> DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount.
> DDB - Debug functions in GDB
These leaves us with 3 categories of debugging flags; sanity checks,
logging/tracing, and GDB environment specific. This shouldn't be too
difficult to adopt.
If the scheme is acceptable to others, I will contribute some time moving
sanity checks out of DIAGNOSTICS.
Regards,
Mike Hancock
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:26:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:16:44 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@FreeBSD.ORG>, FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
References: <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>; from Michael Hancock on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote:
> > > Eivind,
> > >
> > > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging
> > > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an
> > > assertion checking kernel without all the logging.
> >
> > Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of
> >
> > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
> > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
> > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
>
> So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost.
> I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in
> practice.
Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my
meaning or not):
Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel.
Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks
at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then
_ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any
compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for
any other file.
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:40:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:27:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802090716.XAA06954@bubba.whistle.com>
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On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote:
> After looking at the code, you're exactly right.. and this is a bug.
>
> The way it works now is that the port range tests are simply not
> applied to packets that have non-zero offsets. This means a rule
> with a port range can possibly match fragments of packets it's not
> intended for -- independently of whether it's an accept rule, deny
> rule, divert rule, or whatever. In other words, port range rules
> match non-zero offset fragments too liberally.
Ok, yes, that would be a bug then. I had assumed that it was designed the
way I mentioned.
> If it's an accept rule, this is OK -- because if the packet is
> really supposed to be rejected, then the first fragement always
> will be, so the entire packet is lost, even if you accidentally
> pass other fragments of it. Matching too liberally here is OK.
>
> However, if it's a deny rule, then you may be unexpectedly blocking
> some framgents of packets (and therefore the entire packet), even
> if these packets' ports don't fall in the range specified by
> the deny rule. Oops. What you want to do here instead is match too
> conservatively and NOT match questionable fragments.
Possibly.
>
> In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the
> right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of
> all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their
> corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment
> matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around.
Even if it did that, it can't do it right.
>
> Recommendation:
>
> - At the least, a note should be added to the man page for this.
>
> - Going further: for accept and deny rules we can special case
> the rule and do (very close to) the right thing as discussed above.
Yes. This should be done in the short term to make it consistent; either
fragments are denied if they could match a non-accept rule just to be safe
or they are only denied if they are known to match a non-accept rule just
to be sure we don't block things we shouldn't.
I have reservations about passing fragments, but that is the normal way
most filters do it in my experience so it is probably ok for a default.
>
> - Going still further: for divert rules, if the packet matches we
> have to assemble all the fragments anyway, so we're keeping
> most of the state we need to keep already. Once we get the whole
> packet, we determine whether or not to divert it or forward it.
>
> - Going all the way: extend above divert approach to all rules that
> match port ranges: for any fragments of packets that *might* match
> a port range rule, reassemble the entire packet before applying
> the rule.
>
> Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard
> since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets,
> that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover,
> "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness
> into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would
> then be semantically correct...
Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following
different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP
specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to
say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob
to disable it.
I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have
been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also
like it because of this.
How about just waiting for IPv6 and not worrying about any of this? <g>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:42:07 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802090716.XAA06954@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980208231009.18733W-100000@alive.znep.com> from Marc Slemko at "Feb 8, 98 11:15:57 pm"
To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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Marc Slemko writes:
> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote:
>
> > Marc Slemko writes:
> > > If you don't explicitly tell ipfw to pass frags, it will not. That will
> > > break some things, but is the safest way.
> >
> > This is not correct.. ipfw will always block fragments whose offset
> > is one (only seen in attempts to subvert firewalls) but not ordinary
> > fragments... that would be a serious problem.
>
> Ok, let me clarify that statement.
>
> First, ipfw always blocks certain types of fragments that are used only to
> bypass firewalls.
>
> Second, it will block any fragment that _could_ match any deny rule even
> if it has incomplete information so it doesn't know that it _does_ match
> the rule. Since the tcp header is normally only in the first fragment, if
> you block access to a specific port then ipfw can't know if subsequent
> fragments are to that port or not so it blocks them. You need to add an
> explicit rule to allow it to pass such fragments if the risk is acceptable
> to you.
After looking at the code, you're exactly right.. and this is a bug.
The way it works now is that the port range tests are simply not
applied to packets that have non-zero offsets. This means a rule
with a port range can possibly match fragments of packets it's not
intended for -- independently of whether it's an accept rule, deny
rule, divert rule, or whatever. In other words, port range rules
match non-zero offset fragments too liberally.
If it's an accept rule, this is OK -- because if the packet is
really supposed to be rejected, then the first fragement always
will be, so the entire packet is lost, even if you accidentally
pass other fragments of it. Matching too liberally here is OK.
However, if it's a deny rule, then you may be unexpectedly blocking
some framgents of packets (and therefore the entire packet), even
if these packets' ports don't fall in the range specified by
the deny rule. Oops. What you want to do here instead is match too
conservatively and NOT match questionable fragments.
In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the
right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of
all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their
corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment
matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around.
Recommendation:
- At the least, a note should be added to the man page for this.
- Going further: for accept and deny rules we can special case
the rule and do (very close to) the right thing as discussed above.
- Going still further: for divert rules, if the packet matches we
have to assemble all the fragments anyway, so we're keeping
most of the state we need to keep already. Once we get the whole
packet, we determine whether or not to divert it or forward it.
- Going all the way: extend above divert approach to all rules that
match port ranges: for any fragments of packets that *might* match
a port range rule, reassemble the entire packet before applying
the rule.
Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard
since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets,
that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover,
"most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness
into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would
then be semantically correct...
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 00:44:02 1998
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Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:29:23 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:28:15 -0500
From: Bruce Vandiver <76350.1227@compuserve.com>
Subject: 80c30 driver...
To: "INTERNET:kfurge@worldnet.att.net" <kfurge@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: Jack Kelly <jak@cetlink.net>, tech_help_drivers <hackers@freebsd.org>
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--92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa
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I am including below the rocker switch info for the new style
Future Domain TMC-1680 SCSI cards. The old style cards
are illustrated on the Adaptec web site. The new cards use the
18c30 chip, which is compatible with the 18c50/18cXX family of
chips used in all the Future Domain TMC-16XX SCSI cards.
I have also included the same info as an attachment.
Hope this helps.
Bruce Vandiver
76350.1227@compuserve.com
SWITCH SETTINGS FOR FUTURE DOMAIN TMC-1680 SCSI CARD
WITH 18C30 CHIP AND ROCKER SWITCHES TO SET HARDWARE
(NOTE - FLOPPY NOT AVAILABLE ON ALL CARDS)
THIS TABLE USES ANSI GRAPHICS AND EXTENDED CHARACTER SET =
** INDICATES DEFAULT SELECTION
=C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB
=BA =BA =BA =BAIRQ-0=BAIRQ-1=BAIRQ-2=BAIO-0 =BAIO-1 =BA =
=BA
=BAFLOPPY=BAMEM0=BAMEM1=BAISEL0=BAISEL1=BAISEL2=BAIOSEL0=BAIOSEL1=BA FUNC=
TION =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =
=BA OFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP =
DISABLE =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA ON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP =
ENABLE **=BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
C800 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
CA00 **=BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
CE00 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
DE00 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
3 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
5 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
10 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
11 **=BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D=
ISABLED =BA =
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
14 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
15 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D=
ISABLED =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAIO=3D=
140 **=BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAIO=3D=
150 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAIO=3D=
160 =BA
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAIO=3D=
170 =BA
=C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC
End of Table.=
--92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="switches.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="switches.txt"
=0D
SWITCH SETTINGS FOR FUTURE DOMAIN TMC-1680 SCSI CARD=0D
WITH 18C30 CHIP AND ROCKER SWITCHES TO SET HARDWARE=0D
(NOTE - FLOPPY NOT AVAILABLE ON ALL CARDS)=0D
THIS TABLE USES ANSI GRAPHICS AND EXTENDED CHARACTER SET =0D
=0D
** INDICATES DEFAULT SELECTION=0D
=C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CB=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAIRQ-0=BAIRQ-1=BAIRQ-2=BAIO-0 =BAIO-1 =BA =
=BA=0D
=BAFLOPPY=BAMEM0=BAMEM1=BAISEL0=BAISEL1=BAISEL2=BAIOSEL0=BAIOSEL1=BA FUNC=
TION =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9 =0D
=BA OFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP =
DISABLE =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA ON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAFLOP =
ENABLE **=BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
C800 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
CA00 **=BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
CE00 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAMEM=3D=
DE00 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
3 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
5 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
10 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAOFF =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
11 **=BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D=
ISABLED =BA =0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
14 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ=3D=
15 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAON =BA =BA =BAIRQ D=
ISABLED =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAOFF =BAIO=3D=
140 **=BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAOFF =BAIO=3D=
150 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAOFF =BAON =BAIO=3D=
160 =BA=0D
=CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CE=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B9=0D
=BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BA =BAON =BAON =BAIO=3D=
170 =BA=0D
=C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CA=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC=0D
=0D
=0D
--92c10452-a120-11d1-afcd-00805fbe60fa--
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 01:24:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:23:46 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
Reply-To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@FreeBSD.ORG>, FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
In-Reply-To: <19980209091644.21614@follo.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209174124.1787A-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>
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On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> > > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
> > > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
> > > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
> >
> > So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost.
> > I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in
> > practice.
>
> Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my
> meaning or not):
>
> Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel.
> Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks
> at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then
> _ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any
> compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for
> any other file.
Ok. My initial brief glance at the code I saw it as a way to have
light-weight invariants that didn't need a function to check the
invariant. After thinking about it, although I could do this in the
framework you describe there would probably be little value in doing so.
So getting back to your definition, if we had a small subsystem/module
that could be implemented in a single file we could have a static
check_invariant() for the module within #ifdef _INVARIANTS.
For larger subsystems/modules where the check_invariant() is invoked from
many files we would use INVARIANT_CODE around the
mysubsystem_check_invariant().
I guess this should be documented under man style.
Mike
> Eivind.
>
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 01:57:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:56:38 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: "Alton, Matthew" <Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com>
cc: fs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Filesystem hacking
In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9C33287@STLABCEXG011>
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On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Alton, Matthew wrote:
> I have decided to code up an IBM-style journaling filesystem
> (jfs) with maximum portability for free unices. While I'm at it
Cool. Portability might be a challenge though, the vnode interface varies
quite a bit between the various Unices.
> I had might as well have the clean-bits map to a PP/extent
> disk arrangement which will act as a useful abstraction for a
> Logical Volume Manager / Veritas -esque disk management
> system which I also find interesting enough to code up.
>
> This is not an attempt to morph FreeBSD into AIX by any
> means. It is just an interesting project which I think may be
> of use to hackers.
>
> This month (02/98) I will explore the GNU HURD OS to see if
> their goal of creating an OS which would allow me to imple-
> ment a filesystem in user space has been realized. If it has
> not, I will use my normal FreeBSD 2.2.2 i386/40 and NetBSD
> 1.3 Sun 3/50 & 3/80 development boxes.
See the link below for a description of stacking, I was one of the people
that was talking about doing ktou/utok layers in FBSD but I haven't gotten
around to it yet.
http://www.isi.edu/~johnh/SOFTWARE/UCLA_STACKING/
Doing a terminal layer in userland would be a pretty good challenge.
While GNU HURD is interesting, for a production environment you should
probably stick with doing most of it in the kernel.
You might also want to look at the CryptoFS, I think it's in the ports
tree, for an example of an FS that piggybacks on NFS.
> Please let me know if I am duplicating effort and provide me
> with relevant pointers.
>
P.S. it's good to see a FreeBSDer from AB. Any chance of converting
Scott Smallie? ;-)
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 03:52:10 1998
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References: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>;
from Michael Hancock on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:27:14PM +0900
<19980209075127.63680@follo.net>
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:49:52 -0600
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
From: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit:
src/sys/conf options)
Cc: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>,
FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 2:16 AM -0600 2/9/98, Eivind Eklund wrote:
>> > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
>> > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
>> > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
>>
>> So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost.
>> I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in
>> practice.
>
>Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my
>meaning or not):
>
>Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel.
INVARIANT_SUPPORT
>Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks
>at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then
>_ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any
>compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for
>any other file.
Let me suggest something that I found to work well in developing drivers
on MacOS. Rather than fill the code with
#ifdef _ASSERTS
if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1))
panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free");
#endif
how about
ASSERT(((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)), "Unaligned cblock in
cblock_free");
Then you can hide the _ASSERTS stuff in a header which defines the ASSERT macro
and get rid of the clutter in the code.
#ifdef _ASSERTS
#define ASSERT(X,Y) if (X) panic(Y)
#else
#define ASSERT(X,Y)
#endif
Richard Wackerbarth
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:06:19 1998
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From: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: TCP slow start problem
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Hi,
FreeBSD 2.2.5 seems not to be following Slow start procedure (when connection is
set up)!
Could someone, please shed some light on this problem?
The /sys/netinet/tcp_subr.c file contains a function tcp_newtcpcb() which initialises
the control block structure. This function initialises congerstion window (CWND)
tp->snd_cwnd to the maximum possible window size (evwn with window scale
option).
tcp_subr.c line 280: tp->snd_cwnd = TCP_MAXWIN << TCP_MAX_WINSHIFT;
Should not the slow start congestion window tp->snd_cwnd be initialised to 1 MSS
and be increased by one MSS per each ACK received, (until it reaches ssthresh).
Please, tell me if I got the spec wrong, but this is what is specified by RFC 2001
(TCP Slow Start, Congestion Avoidance, Fast Retransmit, and Fast Recovery
Algorithms).
Tcpdump output from netperf runs with my FreeBSD 2.2.5 shows that the amount of
segments initially injected into the network is limited only by the receiver's
advertised window, regardless of whether the other host is on the same network
segment or on a different subnetwork. Is this a bug or a feature?
If a trnasmission timeout occures, TCP goes through slow start as it should.
Thanks,
Igor V. Alekseev
Visiting researcher, Telenor, Norway
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:07:22 1998
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Message-ID: <19980209130707.03437@follo.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:07:07 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
Cc: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>,
FreeBSD Hackers <Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
References: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>; <19980209075127.63680@follo.net> <Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> <19980209091644.21614@follo.net> <l03130304b1049a4c285d@[208.2.87.4]>
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In-Reply-To: <l03130304b1049a4c285d@[208.2.87.4]>; from Richard Wackerbarth on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600, Richard Wackerbarth wrote:
> At 2:16 AM -0600 2/9/98, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> >> > _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
> >> > _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
> >> > INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
> >>
> >> So we have 3 levels of "sanity checking" with increasing levels of cost.
> >> I like it, it's a good fit to how people want to use assertions in
> >> practice.
> >
> >Just to make this perfectly clear (I'm not certain if you got my
> >meaning or not):
> >
> >Enabling INVARIANT_CODE will not add _any_ checks to the kernel.
>
> INVARIANT_SUPPORT
Agreed.
> >Instead, it will add the code that is necessary to enable any checks
> >at will. If INVARIANT_CODE is defined for the entire kernel, then
> >_ASSERTS or _INVARIANTS can be defined for any single file without any
> >compilation trouble, even if _ASSERTS/_INVARIANTS isn't enabled for
> >any other file.
>
> Let me suggest something that I found to work well in developing drivers
> on MacOS. Rather than fill the code with
>
> #ifdef _ASSERTS
> if ((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1))
> panic("Unaligned cblock in cblock_free");
> #endif
>
> how about
>
> ASSERT(((unsigned long)cblockp & (CBLOCK-1)), "Unaligned cblock in
> cblock_free");
>
> Then you can hide the _ASSERTS stuff in a header which defines the
> ASSERT macro and get rid of the clutter in the code.
Well, I thought that was a bit too extreme for FreeBSD ;-) I
personally use a fairly heavy assertion system based on that, along
with extra trace and code-control support. My system is usually a bit
overkill except for large projects; for FreeBSD, it might be perfect.
I'll try to send a description to the mailing-list, and then I'll
write up a new version if people seem interested. I need to get a
freeware version of it some day, anyway; re-writing it each time I
switch employers is getting a bit tedious...
> #ifdef _ASSERTS
> #define ASSERT(X,Y) if (X) panic(Y)
> #else
> #define ASSERT(X,Y)
> #endif
#ifdef _ASSERTS
# define ASSERT(X,Y) do {if (!(X)) panic Y;}while(0)
#else
# define ASSERT(X,Y)
#endif
Notice the support for extra argument, the correct direction for the
assert (an assertion should always be true), and the bracketing to
force correct use of ";", making this a single C-statement after
pre-processing with _ASSERTS both defined and undefined.
Your version will bind an else wrong if used as the front-end of an
if.
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:28:40 1998
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References: <l03130304b1049a4c285d@[208.2.87.4]>; from Richard Wackerbarth
on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600
<Pine.SV4.3.95.980209160831.661B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>;
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<19980209091644.21614@follo.net> <l03130304b1049a4c285d@[208.2.87.4]>
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:28:20 -0600
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
From: Richard Wackerbarth <rkw@dataplex.net>
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit:
src/sys/conf options)
Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:49:52AM -0600, Richard Wackerbarth wrote:
>I'll try to send a description to the mailing-list, and then I'll
>write up a new version if people seem interested. I need to get a
>freeware version of it some day, anyway; re-writing it each time I
>switch employers is getting a bit tedious...
I've been there, too.
>#ifdef _ASSERTS
># define ASSERT(X,Y) do {if (!(X)) panic Y;}while(0)
>#else
># define ASSERT(X,Y)
>#endif
>
>Notice the support for extra argument, the correct direction for the
>assert (an assertion should always be true), and the bracketing to
>force correct use of ";", making this a single C-statement after
>pre-processing with _ASSERTS both defined and undefined.
Yours is definitely a better description. The lines I wrote
here were off the top of my head. They should be taken more for
"flavour". My real macros are much more complicated because I also
have provisions for logging, etc. Assert is just one case.
In fact, I rarely look at the macros. They are neatly hidden away
and "just work".
Richard Wackerbarth
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 04:29:05 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
To: marcs@znep.com (Marc Slemko)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:28:11 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: archie@whistle.com, jonny@coppe.UFRJ.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980209002024.18733a-100000@alive.znep.com> from "Marc Slemko" at Feb 9, 98 00:27:11 am
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In some mail from Marc Slemko, sie said:
>
> > In the case of divert, count, skipto, etc. rules... what's the
> > right answer?? There isn't one unless the kernel keeps track of
> > all the fragments flying by, and matches them up with their
> > corresponding initial fragments, and whether that initial fragment
> > matched or not.. i.e., keeping a lot of extra information around.
>
> Even if it did that, it can't do it right.
Not necessarily. It can do it right, but for it to happen right,
the first fragment seen should be at offset 0.
[...]
> I have reservations about passing fragments, but that is the normal way
> most filters do it in my experience so it is probably ok for a default.
IP Filter doesn't do it that way, although you have to explicitly match
on fragments in a rule to apply a result because it is a fragment. If
you don't specify in your rule that a packet should (not) be a fragment
then it shouldn't matter unless you are trying to compare your rule to
data which can't be reasonably assumed to be in the fragment.
[...]
> > Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard
> > since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets,
> > that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover,
> > "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness
> > into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would
> > then be semantically correct...
>
> Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following
> different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP
> specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to
> say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob
> to disable it.
>
> I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have
> been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also
> like it because of this.
Right. There are reasons that reassembly is done at "endpoints" rather
than wherever it might be convienient.
Darren
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:11:18 1998
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Received: (qmail 588 invoked by uid 110); 9 Feb 1998 12:28:44 -0000
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Free Software for Fast IP-Address Lookup (fwd)
From: Julian Assange <proff@iq.org>
Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:28:44 +1100
Message-ID: <wxk9b5uflv.fsf@polysynaptic.iq.org>
Lines: 31
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FREE SOFTWARE FOR FAST IP-ADDRESS LOOKUP
Efficient, compact and easily searchable IP routing tables can be built
by using an LC-trie, a trie structure with combined path and level
compression. The depth of the LC-trie grows as O(log log N) with the
number of entries N for a large class of distributions. A node in the
trie can be coded in only four bytes and holds 128-bit addresses without
modification.
We are now making a software implementation publically available that
can sustain approximately half a million lookups per second on a 133 MHz
Pentium personal computer, and two million lookups per second on a more
powerful SUN Sparc Ultra II workstation for random traffic. The number
of lookups roughly doubles for real traffic owing to better caching. The
size of the main search structure never exceeds 500 kB for the tables in
the US core routers. Our results include the full lookup from a given
32-bit address to the resulting port number and next-hop address.
The source code and an accompanying paper can be fetched from URL
http://www.cs.hut.fi/~sni/papers/router/router.html No patents are
pending or awarded for the algorithm.
Stefan Nilsson
Department of Computer Science
Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Gunnar Karlsson
Swedish Institute of Computer Science
Sweden
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:14:34 1998
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Message-Id: <34DF015B.41C67EA6@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:15:08 +0100
From: Helmut Wirth <wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at>
Organization: Siemens AG. Österreich
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: MMX, pentium, etc
References: <199802080804.AAA08941@rah.star-gate.com>
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Amancio Hasty wrote:
>
> Sorry I forgot to mentioned that a little while ago someone posted
> patches to gcc to add MMX instruction set so do a mail search
> over at http://www.freebsd.org to find out who posted it.
>
> Cheers,
> Amancio
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
Hello,
I think you are reffering to my patches for gas and gdb. They are
archived as a change request / bug report. Look into problem reports
(under Search GNATS database), it has the number gnu/3157. I *know*
the patches itself are still usable with freebsd-current. The old
instructions included with them may be slightly wrong because of
changed paths.
Alternatively you could use binutils-2.8.1 (from gnu). It includes
gas with MMX instructions. But then you cannot debug your programs.
--
Helmut F. Wirth
---------------
E-mail: hfwirth@eunet.at
E-mail (at work): wirth@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at
Tel. : +43-1-1707-37610 (at work)
FAX : +43-1-1707-57602 (at work)
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 05:58:07 1998
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From: Keith Mitchell <kmitch@cslab.vt.edu>
Message-Id: <199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu>
Subject: Zip/CD and Stable/Current
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:58:04 -0500 (EST)
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I just received a brand new gateway PC that I need to install FreeBSD on.
This PC has an SM9432TX card in it, so I was trying to install stable
and current from 2/8/98 and both lock up the machine right before sysinstall
comes up (it even displays the message that it is starting sysinstall).
The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine
with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I
disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but
tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both
the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible.
It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be
responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this??
Thanks.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 06:34:31 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:34:16 +0100
From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl <sec@yoda.pi.musin.de>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: help: Partition/Label editor from sysinstall?
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I've been trying to create a setup-disk for our workstations here.
This basically involves partitioning/labeling the Hard-disk, and getting
the whole tree via "rsh otherhost tar cf - /|tar xvf -" from an already
running system.
Since these boxes have different sized disks, i wanted to
partition/label them myself using that nice gui from sysinstall. Has
anyone been successfull of ripping this part out? The whole sysinstall
is unfortunately too big to fit on my setup-disk (created with the
picobsd0.2 scripts). Or does anyone have an idea how i can accomplish
this in a better/easier way?
CU,
Sec
--
Komme wieder
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 06:52:49 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:52:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Kurt Olsen <kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu>
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sec@yoda.pi.musin.de
Subject: Re: help: Partition/Label editor from sysinstall?
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If you are only using 1.44 MB formatted disks, you could always
format them to 1720 KB and get another 280-ish KB. Use
fdformat -f 1720 /dev/fd0.1720
Then disklabel, newfs, etc. as normal.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 07:34:56 1998
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:36:47 +0100
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I do mind being subscribing questions mailing list.
PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE PMatuszyk@bh.com.pl
listerver is dead ?!!!
Pawel G. Matuszyk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:04:47 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802091228.KAA17319@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> from Darren Reed at "Feb 9, 98 11:28:11 pm"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:03:58 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com, jonny@coppe.ufrj.br,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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// > > Come to think of it, the latter approach would not be that hard
// > > since the kernel is doing this already for locally routed packets,
// > > that is, reassembling packet fragments in a fragment queue. Moreover,
// > > "most" packets don't get fragmentized. It would spread more ugliness
// > > into ip_input.c, but at least the behavoir of the ipfw code would
// > > then be semantically correct...
// >
// > Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment following
// > different paths, you lose bigtime. It probably violates any number of TCP
// > specs. I would have to think about it to decide if I hate it enough to
// > say it shouldn't be implemented at all or if there should just be a knob
// > to disable it.
// >
// > I think some of the Linux firewall code does reassembly, and there have
// > been numerous problems with it because of this. OTOH, some people also
// > like it because of this.
//
// Right. There are reasons that reassembly is done at "endpoints" rather
// than wherever it might be convienient.
I like the idea of packet reassembly at firewalling points. If it's easy,
I'd like to see a sysctl to force reassembly at ip_input.c.
I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly
in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ?
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:14:17 1998
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To: Michael Schuster <Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at>
cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals
In-reply-to: Message from Michael Schuster <Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at>
<34DAB34B.DD7FFC63@utimaco.co.at> .
X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$
u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ
3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:13:57 -0500
From: Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com>
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On 6 Feb, Michael Schuster wrote:
> Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com> wrote
> > Also, this looks like a race condition just waiting to be lost.
>
> Could you elaborate?
Sure. The last two attachments do the sense ioctl at
roughly the same time, and both see that shm_nattach == 2,
so neither does the RMID.
Dennis
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:19:09 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:18:52 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANSI X3.241-1994
References: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net>
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In-Reply-To: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net>; from Donald J. Maddox on Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500
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On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500, Donald J. Maddox wrote:
> Anybody have a pointer to ANSI X3.241-1994? I know I can get it from
> Global Engineering, but that's $ and I'd like to avoid that :-)
> I called them about some SCSI specs once, and they wanted lots o'
> cash. Shortly thereafter, I found the info I needed freely available
> on the net... Maybe the same is true in this case as well?
That's the ANSI C standard, right? It's not freely available at this
point. The closest you can get is the draft of the next standard.
The cheapest buy you will get for the original ANSI standard is
Herbert Schildts 'The annotated C standard', which cost about $30 less
than the non-annotated standard. The rumours say that the publisher
took the original price and added the value of the annotations to end
up at that price. (In other words, you're better off using white-out
on the annotations than reading them.)
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:31:11 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:29:48 +0100
From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis)
Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
References: <199802091228.KAA17319@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis:
> I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly
> in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ?
Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all
fragments, in general.
--
Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 08:49:44 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:48:11 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802091603.OAA22008@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> I like the idea of packet reassembly at firewalling points. If it's easy,
> I'd like to see a sysctl to force reassembly at ip_input.c.
>
> I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly
> in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ?
It is simply a bad idea. First, you have multiple paths. Second, you
need to worry about headaches with timeouts and not having bad
interactions between timeouts at the receiver and timeouts at the
destination.
If you want a "thou shalt not" in the RFCs, cf. section 5.2.1.1 of
rfc1812:
(2) The router validates the IP header, as described in Section
[5.2.2]. Note that IP reassembly is not done, except on IP
fragments to be queued for local delivery in step (4).
[...]
since reassembly is performed on locally delivered packets but not
on forwarded packets. One simple scheme is to associate a flag
[...]
5.2.6 Fragmentation and Reassembly: RFC-791 Section 3.2
As was discussed in Section [4.2.2.7], a router MUST support IP
fragmentation.
A router MUST NOT reassemble any datagram before forwarding it.
DISCUSSION
A few people have suggested that there might be some topologies
where reassembly of transit datagrams by routers might improve
performance. The fact that fragments may take different paths to
the destination precludes safe use of such a feature.
Nothing in this section should be construed to control or limit
fragmentation or reassembly performed as a link layer function by
the router.
Similarly, if an IP datagram is encapsulated in another IP
datagram (e.g., it is tunnelled), that datagram is in turn
fragmented, the fragments must be reassembled in order to forward
the original datagram. This section does not preclude this.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:04:06 1998
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To: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: TCP slow start problem
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:05:47 +0100."
<"1658 98/02/09 13:05*/G=Igor/S=Alekseev/OU=kjeller/O=fou/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/"@MHS>
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:04:14 -0800
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>FreeBSD 2.2.5 seems not to be following Slow start procedure (when connection is
>set up)!
>
>Could someone, please shed some light on this problem?
>
>The /sys/netinet/tcp_subr.c file contains a function tcp_newtcpcb() which initialises
>the control block structure. This function initialises congerstion window (CWND)
>tp->snd_cwnd to the maximum possible window size (evwn with window scale
>option).
>
>
>tcp_subr.c line 280: tp->snd_cwnd = TCP_MAXWIN << TCP_MAX_WINSHIFT;
The congestion window is also set in tcp_mss() as soon as the mss is
learned from the foreign machine, and for non-local networks, cwnd is
set to one segment.
-DG
David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802091703.PAA23513@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <19980209172948.VX49057@mars.hsc.fr> from Pierre Beyssac at "Feb 9, 98 05:29:48 pm"
To: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:03:09 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, marcs@znep.com,
archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Pierre Beyssac)
// According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis:
// > I can't remember anything in the IP protocol that would disallow reassembly
// > in the routers, other than performance. Could you please give examples ?
//
// Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all
// fragments, in general.
Right, for general routers. But if the machine is my firewall, I expect
ALL fragments to pass by it. That's why a sysctl would be handy.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:52:01 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:51:14 +0100
From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac)
To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis)
Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, marcs@znep.com, archie@whistle.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
References: <19980209172948.VX49057@mars.hsc.fr> <199802091703.PAA23513@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis:
> // Multiple paths, for one. A router is not _guaranteed_ to see all
> // fragments, in general.
>
> Right, for general routers. But if the machine is my firewall, I expect
> ALL fragments to pass by it. That's why a sysctl would be handy.
Of course, I agree. But you were asking for "anything in the IP protocol
that would disallow reassembly", that's why I gave a general reason.
--
Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 09:54:06 1998
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Subject: Re: List master -Reply
In-Reply-To: <s4df313c.005@bh.com.pl> from Pawel Matuszyk at "Feb 9, 98 04:36:47 pm"
To: PMATUSZYK@bh.com.pl (Pawel Matuszyk)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:53:23 -0800 (PST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Pawel Matuszyk wrote:
> I do mind being subscribing questions mailing list.
>
> PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE PMatuszyk@bh.com.pl
>
> listerver is dead ?!!!
hello, the listerver is not dead.
you are subscribed to a number of mailing lists.
you sent mail regarding your subscription to questions
to the hackers mailing list......strange.
this is a volunteer effort.
each person is expected to subscribe and unsubscribe
as they see fit...without help from anyone else.
if you insist that i remove you from question,
i will remove you from all the lists.
is there is a reason that you cannot maintain your
own subscriptions, please tell me.
jmb
freebsd-bugs:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl
freebsd-current:pmatuszyk@bh.com.pl
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:12:13 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Japan trip report..
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:11:48 -0800
Message-ID: <24936.887047908@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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As promised, I did a little trip report on my recent PR tour of Tokyo.
In keeping with the modern trend towards using the web for everything,
and especially since there were so many images involved, I did my
report in HTML for a change. Please see:
http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/japan/report
Thanks to all the FreeBSD developers and friends who were such
gracious hosts during my stay there! You made this a most enjoyable
experience indeed...
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:16:08 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:17:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Shankland <jas@flyingfox.com>
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Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
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Mark Slemko <marcs@znep.com> writes:
> Reassembly sucks. If you have different parts of the fragment
> following different paths, you lose bigtime.
This is excessively general. In particular, in any firewall setting
(and we were talking about ipfw), it can be considered a misfeature
for the network to be designed such that data either transits or
bypasses the firewall, unpredictably. Obviously IP routers should
not in general perform packet reassembly; firewalls, NAT devices, etc.,
placed at administrative boundaries toward the perimeter of the network,
are a different story.
Jim Shankland
Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:42:43 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:43:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Obi Wan Oblivion <vdk@chaosphere.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
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Sorry to clutter what may be an off topic list. I am looking for
information about OS programming, specifically FreeBSD. I have
experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
approach.
My main goal is to learn more about the operating system at it's
lowest levels, and to learn to appreciate fully the oft-spoken mantra
"Never trust an operating system you don't have the source code for."
I'd also like to get involved in the FreeBSD development effort once I
actually know what I am doing.
Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!
-Jeff
"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with
reality at any point."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 10:53:38 1998
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To: Obi Wan Oblivion <vdk@chaosphere.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST."
<Pine.BSF.3.91.980209132432.1069A-100000@logrus.chaosphere.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:52:52 -0800
Message-ID: <25466.887050372@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
> approach.
Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one
at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have
time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough
work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm
afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do.
It's also about as thorough an approach as they get so I'm not quite
sure what you mean by your request for a "more thorough" one -
whatever any book might say, even if you have one available, the
source is always the definitive reference. Books are often wrong but
the sources don't lie. :)
As far as "easier" is concerned, well, who ever said that learning
FreeBSD at this level was supposed to be easy? ;-)
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:10:14 1998
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Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals
In-Reply-To: <199802091612.LAA16866@po1.bbn.com> from Dennis Rockwell at "Feb 9, 98 11:13:57 am"
To: dennis@bbn.com (Dennis Rockwell)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:07:09 +0100 (MET)
Cc: Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
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In reply to Dennis Rockwell who wrote:
> On 6 Feb, Michael Schuster wrote:
>
> > Dennis Rockwell <dennis@bbn.com> wrote
> > > Also, this looks like a race condition just waiting to be lost.
> > Could you elaborate?
> Sure. The last two attachments do the sense ioctl at
> roughly the same time, and both see that shm_nattach == 2,
> so neither does the RMID.
Yep, I've seen this too, but havn't got a fix yet...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:15:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:13:08 +0100
From: "Stefan Bethke" <stefan@promo.de>
To: "Obi Wan Oblivion" <vdk@chaosphere.com>
cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
Message-ID: <585160.3096043988@stefan.promo.de>
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--On Mon, 9. Feb 1998 10:52 Uhr -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard"
<jkh@time.cdrom.com> wrote:
>> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
>> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
>> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
>> approach.
>
> Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one
> at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have
> time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough
> work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm
> afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do.
>
> It's also about as thorough an approach as they get so I'm not quite
> sure what you mean by your request for a "more thorough" one -
> whatever any book might say, even if you have one available, the
> source is always the definitive reference. Books are often wrong but
> the sources don't lie. :)
If you're interested in the networking kernel code, I can highly recommend
TCP/IP Illustratated, Vol. 2, by Stevens and Wright, published by AW.
Although FreeBSD has evolved from the roots described in this title, its
still current in many aspects, and fun to read. Nonetheless, the source is
the definitive reference, as Jordan said.
Actually, I'd love to see such books for other parts of the system. [ Yes, I
can reply to myself: "then go write it." ]
Stefan
--
Stefan Bethke
Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18
+ Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44
Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE
D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 11:20:00 1998
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From: Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com>
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com>
References: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST."
<Pine.BSF.3.91.980209132432.1069A-100000@logrus.chaosphere.com>
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In article <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> Jordan writes:
>> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
>> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
>> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
>> approach.
>Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one
>at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have
>time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough
>work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm
>afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do.
Well, that's not *completely* true :).
First, anyone interested in kernel hacking should probably read one or more of
the following books:
The Design and Implementation of the UNIX Operating System, by
Maurice J. Bach
The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD Operating System, by
Marshall Kirk McKusick et al
The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating Sytem, by
Marshall Kirk McKusick et al
A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions
(recently republished, although I don't know if
the title is the same)
For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also
periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel sources,
and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at least
one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't
know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.)
Lastly (plug plug) there's an article in the current (March, 1998) issue of Dr
Dobb's Journal that describes the process of adding a feature to the kernel,
and I think does a fairly good job of explaining it as long as the reader has
experience in programmin in C.
And, for the curious... I read the Bach book, and then started playing around
with the kernel code (specifically, I first added ACL support to the Xenix
kernel, and then got job control working in SCO SysVr3.2). I've since read
the rest of the books above, and taken Kirk's course (not necessarily in that
order).
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From: "Atish" <ACHOWDHU.IN.ORACLE.COM.ofcmail@in.oracle.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Auto-reply: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
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Hi,
I am on leave till mid Feb'98. Will try to get back to you as soon as
possible.
-regards
Atish
#..........................................................................#=
>From : Atish Datta Chowdhury
Oracle Software Development Centre
India Development Centre
150 Embassy Point
Bangalore 560001
Telephone: (088) 2256099 Extn:496/atish
e-mail: achowdhu@in.oracle.com
#..........................................................................#=
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Date: 10 Feb 98 00:49:46
From:Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com>
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Subject:Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
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Message-Id:<199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com>
In-Reply-To:<25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com>
References:Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." <Pine.BSF.3.91.980209132432.1069A-100000@logrus.chaosphere.com>
Organization:Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
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In article <25466.887050372.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@time.cdrom.com> Jordan
writes:
>> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
>> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
>> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
>> approach.
>Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one
>at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have
>time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough
>work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm
>afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do.
Well, that's not *completely* true :).
First, anyone interested in kernel hacking should probably read one or more
of
the following books:
The Design and Implementation of the UNIX Operating System, by
Maurice J. Bach
The Design and Implementation of the 4.3BSD Operating System, by
Marshall Kirk McKusick et al
The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating Sytem, by
Marshall Kirk McKusick et al
A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions
(recently republished, although I don't know if
the title is the same)
For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also
periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel
sources,
and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at leas=
t
one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't
know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.)
Lastly (plug plug) there's an article in the current (March, 1998) issue of
Dr
Dobb's Journal that describes the process of adding a feature to the kernel,
and I think does a fairly good job of explaining it as long as the reader ha=
s
experience in programmin in C.
And, for the curious... I read the Bach book, and then started playing aroun=
d
with the kernel code (specifically, I first added ACL support to the Xenix
kernel, and then got job control working in SCO SysVr3.2). I've since read
the rest of the books above, and taken Kirk's course (not necessarily in that
order).
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To: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:58:04 EST."
<199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:52:38 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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>
> I just received a brand new gateway PC that I need to install FreeBSD on.
> This PC has an SM9432TX card in it, so I was trying to install stable
> and current from 2/8/98 and both lock up the machine right before sysinstall
> comes up (it even displays the message that it is starting sysinstall).
>
> The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine
> with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I
> disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but
> tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both
> the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible.
>
> It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be
> responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this??
Is the Zip the slave on the secondary IDE channel?
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 12:58:03 1998
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From: Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
In-reply-to: <199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com>
References: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:43:51 EST." <Pine.BSF.3.91.980209132432.1069A-100000@logrus.chaosphere.com> <199802091919.LAA05117@kithrup.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:26:22 -0600
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Also, this time around, Dr. McKusick provided an opportunity to
receive class materials and video tapes of the 15 lectures in his
"advanced" course for a reasonable fee. I've viewed two of the
lectures so far and I'm enjoying them immensely. It is nice to get
some insight and history from Dr. McKusick. Thanks, Kirk!
I do not know if Dr. McKusick intends to do this again in the future,
nor do I know if you can begin receiving tapes from the current course
at this time.
However, Alex Nash <nash@mcs.com> may be able to answer these
questions if you are interested. He seems to have helped Dr. McKusick
organize this. Thanks, Alex!
Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
On 9 February 1998 at 11:19, Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com> wrote:
[snip]
> For those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area, Kirk McKusick also
> periodically offers an excellent course that walks through the kernel sources
,
> and explains what's going on at various bits. (You should have read at least
> one of the above books before taking the "advanced" course, although I don't
> know what the difference between teh "beginner" and "advanced" courses is.)
[snip]
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 13:51:55 1998
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From: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: weird hardware info request
To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:01 +0100 (MET)
X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands
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Sorry for this but:
anyone got a picture of the physical dimensions of an ATX mainboard?
Specifically I need the rear-cutout dimensions (so where the connectors
and the exp board bulkheads are).
Wilko (plans on hacking hardware this time..)
_ ______________________________________________________________________
| / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
|/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
--------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix --
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:09:37 1998
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To: hm@kts.org
cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:39:01 +0100."
<m0xyIWz-00024MC@bert.kts.org>
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From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > > HP DDS drives work well. So where do i get a Sony from ?
> >
> > Er, Sony, I would expect. At least here, they know where their
> > distributors are.
>
> Hey, are they giving it away for free now to fix FreeBSD drivers or
> are you suggesting to buy a second DDS drive ? ;-)
Well, I'd have to say that borrowing one would be a better move. 8)
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 14:23:08 1998
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To: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list)
Subject: Re: weird hardware info request
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:51:01 +0100."
<199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:22:47 -0700
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In message <199802092151.WAA03099@yedi.iaf.nl>, Wilko Bulte writes:
>
>anyone got a picture of the physical dimensions of an ATX mainboard?
>Specifically I need the rear-cutout dimensions (so where the connectors
>and the exp board bulkheads are).
There are actually several different I/O panel variations. The
Intel PR440FX[1], for example, has built-in Ethernet/USB/Audio
connectors. Most ATX case manufacturers provide separate I/O
plates depending on the motherboard you use. Intel also
has an ATX specification in Acrobat format[2], but I don't have
Acrobat here so I'm not sure if that has what you're looking for. If
it doesn't, you might try this[3].
[1]: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/pr/pr_con.htm#4
[2]: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/atx.htm
[3]: http://www.teleport.com/~atx/
>Wilko (plans on hacking hardware this time..)
Have fun. :)
:: Mike ::
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:49:12 -0500
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Kevin P. Neal" <kpneal@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
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At 11:19 AM 2/9/98 -0800, Sean Eric Fagan wrote:
> A Commentary on the UNIX Operatin System, by John Lions
> (recently republished, although I don't know if
> the title is the same)
"Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition"
--
XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing
XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/
XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates:
XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!"
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To: "Obi Wan Oblivion" <vdk@chaosphere.com>,
"Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Learning the ins & outs of FreeBSD
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Well you can also look at the kernel call manpages.
>> experience with C and have begun to take the masochistic approach to
>> learning about the inner workings of FreeBSD by reading snippets of code
>> from /usr/src, but there has got to be a more thorough, if not easier,
>> approach.
>
>Erm, no actually. The approach you've taken isn't the masochistic one
>at all, it's really the ONLY approach to take. You think people have
>time to *write* about this stuff and work on it too? ;-) It's enough
>work just keeping /usr/src up to date for most developers, and I'm
>afraid that reading the code IS the way to do what you want to do.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:05:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:04:59 -0600
From: dannyman <dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: how to submit a diff?
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hello,
i'm relatively new to hackers, but i just now, for no really good reason
other than the fact i know enough to do so, and could find enough errors to
warrant it, revised the pw(8) man page.
the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD
Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to
double-check if it really *is* a keen idea to send a relatively uninteresting
set of corrections to a whole bunch of uninterested people. if anyone thinks
they know better than i do, please fill me in!
uhmmm, tia. :)
oh ... btw, i just upgraded to -current, and some programs like vim are
suddenly interpreting BS and DEL in the opposite manner to which i am
accustomed. if anyone can give me a pointer in the right direction to fixing
this problem, i'd 'ppreciate it.
-dan
--
//Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=-
\\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=-
aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:21:47 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:17:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To: dannyman <dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to submit a diff?
In-Reply-To: <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980209181244.17795A-100000@james.hwcn.org>
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On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, dannyman wrote:
> i'm relatively new to hackers, but i just now, for no really good reason
> other than the fact i know enough to do so, and could find enough errors to
> warrant it, revised the pw(8) man page.
Great!
> the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD
> Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to
Yes, that's what the handbook says, and I've been planning to
read-through that section for a while (and probably will this
weekend, now) and fix those little things. :) Use send-pr to
submit any-such feature-additions or bugfixes. If you think it
worthwhile, you can also send a note to
freebsd-hackers/freebsd-committers pointing to the pr so that
(hopefully) it comes to someone's attention.
The reason for sending it via send-pr is that email to -hackers
will sometimes disappear. If it is sent-pr, it will not
disappear, although it may languish for a while (do not
interepret any slowness in addressing it as ingratitude on
FreeBSD's part --- just part of the (unfortunate) nature of the
beast).
--
Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never!
tIM...HOEk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 15:41:26 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:43:08 +0000
From: James Raynard <fhackers@demon.co.uk>
To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: List master -Reply
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 09:53:23AM -0800, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:
[rather strange query snipped]
> is there is a reason that you cannot maintain your
> own subscriptions, please tell me.
Jonathan,
As a result of the disk crash I was kicked off freebsd-chat (fortunately
not an important list). Since then, I have been trying to re-subscribe,
and also join some other lists. I have mailed majordomo daily to no
apparent effect and mailed postmaster@freebsd.org about this on 3rd Feb,
also to no apparent effect (not really a complaint, I can imagine that
mailbox not being particularly enjoyable reading).
None of these lists are particularly important to me and I don't
really mind if I never get subscribed to them, but I can see why
some people are getting very frustrated. Any chance you could have
a look into this? I can supply extracts from my mail logs, if that
would help.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 16:18:17 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:17:24 -0500
From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox)
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, dmaddox@scsn.net
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ANSI X3.241-1994
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Mail-Followup-To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, dmaddox@scsn.net,
hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <19980204193248.51214@scsn.net> <19980209171852.02605@follo.net>
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 05:18:52PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 07:32:48PM -0500, Donald J. Maddox wrote:
> > Anybody have a pointer to ANSI X3.241-1994? I know I can get it from
> > Global Engineering, but that's $ and I'd like to avoid that :-)
> > I called them about some SCSI specs once, and they wanted lots o'
> > cash. Shortly thereafter, I found the info I needed freely available
> > on the net... Maybe the same is true in this case as well?
>
> That's the ANSI C standard, right? It's not freely available at this
> point. The closest you can get is the draft of the next standard.
No, this one is the specification that describes STAC LZS compression...
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 17:49:00 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
To: ade@demon.net
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:56:52 CST."
<E0y1JB7-0000Cg-00@sphinx.lovett.com>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:47:23 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> Mike Smith writes:
> >
> >What has to happen is that someone has to write the third-stage
> >bootstrap. The biosboot code will shrink substantially when this
> >happens.
>
> Ok. Forgive my ignorance in any of the below comments - I probably
> need to hit myself over the head with a clue-by-four as far as
> i386 booting goes.. :)
Feh. There is only one place to start.
> AIUI, with the two-stage boot process at the moment (MBR and biosboot),
> the i386 validates the contents of the first few sectors of the disk,
> loads in biosboot at some low memory location,
Almost. Loads boot1, executes. Boot2 locates & loads boot2.
> this code runs, prints
> up the boot prompt, determines the kernel image to load, blits it in
> at the 1Mb region, and passes control over and away we go. As far
> as the end user is concerned, they can either sit and do nothing,
> or type one line of text to load a different kernel..
>
> Splitting this into three stage process:
>
> 1. MBR loads biosboot at <low memory location>
> 2. biosboot runs and prompts
> "where do you want to load the next boot program?"
> 3. biosboot loads <boot3> at <somewhere below 512k>
> 4. <boot3> runs and prompts
> "which kernel do you want to load?"
> 5. <boot3> loads <kernel> at 1Mb
> 6. kernel runs..
>
> Assuming I haven't messed up anywhere above :), I don't see where
> the code shrinkage comes from.. biosboot still needs BAD144 etc..
> to be able to load the 3rd stage boot, and we still want to give
> the pilot a choice as to where this code is loaded from..
All the code for parsing kernel options goes. The code for loading the
kernel is simplified. The splash code goes. The VESA code goes. The
NEXTBOOT code goes. The protected mode/real mode switch code may be
simplified (depending on where boot3 is actually loaded).
More importantly, adding more features doesn't involve more boot2 bloat.
(Sorry for the delay here).
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 17:50:42 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: ade@demon.net, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Feb 1998 07:13:58 GMT."
<199802080713.AAA27347@usr02.primenet.com>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:48:36 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > I'm also starting to tinker with FreeBSD/ELF -- I've read John's
> > comments about the bootloader that supports both a.out and ELF
> > kernels being too big (presumably because it has the BAD144 cruft
> > in it as well).
>
> Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well.
How much smaller is the ELF loader?
> Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot
> blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels.
Please do. 8)
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 18:44:49 1998
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To: dannyman <dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to submit a diff?
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:04:59 CST."
<19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:42:57 -0800
Message-ID: <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD
> Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to
It does? Could you point me at the reference? It's supposed to tell
you to use send-pr!
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 18:44:51 1998
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To: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:58:04 EST."
<199802091358.IAA14080@labrador.cslab.vt.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:22 +0900
From: Satoh Junichi <junichi@astec.co.jp>
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> The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine
> with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I
> disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but
> tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both
> the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible.
>
> It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be
> responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this??
The ZIP drive reports AT_TYPE_DIRECT.
On FreeBSD 2.2.5R, wcdattach() is called when a AT_TYPE_DIRECT device is
found. If wcdattach() proves the ZIP drive, it may freeze.
To avoid it, there are two solutions.
1. Use wfd driver in RELENG_2_2 branch that supports ATAPI LS-120 and
ZIP drives.
2. Append 'break' to atapi.c like this.
(if you don't use the ZIP drive and your CD-ROM drive reports
AT_TYPE_CDROM.)
== atapi.c ==========================================================
switch (ap->devtype) {
default:
/* unknown ATAPI device */
printf ("wdc%d: unit %d: unknown ATAPI type=%d\n",
ctlr, unit, ap->devtype);
break;
case AT_TYPE_DIRECT: /* direct-access */
break; <---- !!! NOTICE !!!
case AT_TYPE_CDROM: /* CD-ROM device */
#if NWCD > 0
/* ATAPI CD-ROM */
if (wcdattach (ata, unit, ap, ata->debug) < 0)
======================================================================
---
Junichi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:02:37 1998
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To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...)
References: <199802050149.RAA23069@kithrup.com> <Pine.BSF.3.95.980204185815.2304y-100000@alive.znep.com>
From: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
Date: 09 Feb 1998 19:01:59 -0800
In-Reply-To: marcs@znep.com's message of 5 Feb 98 02:08:07 GMT
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For what it's worth, we would have no objection to Kirk's hooks and stubs
going into FreeBSD, nor would we have any objection to other similar projects
as long as the non-poison'ed version of the OS does not suffer.
Suffer includes, but is not limited to, performance degredation and bit-rot.
FreeBSD is one of the most widely OEM'ed non-embedded OSs in the world because
of the unrestricted licensing options. Companies like Whistle, and to a much
lesser extent, Juniper, contribute to the FreeBSD project because we believe
in this OS. Making FreeBSD unfriendly to OEM developers would be a pity.
Paul
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:08:35 1998
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To: Satoh Junichi <junichi@astec.co.jp>
cc: kmitch@cslab.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Zip/CD and Stable/Current
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:44:22 +0900."
<199802100244.LAA13370@stone.astec.co.jp>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:06:27 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > The PC itself is a Gateway model 3110 which is a Pentium II 233 machine
> > with both a zip and a CDrom drive on the secondary IDE channel. If I
> > disable the secondary IDE channel, then it will boot. 2.2.5 boots fine, but
> > tries to put the zip drive on the CD driver and the end result is both
> > the zip and the cdrom drive are inaccessible.
> >
> > It appears that something has changed in the IDE stuff that could be
> > responsible for this lockup. Has anyone else seen this??
>
> The ZIP drive reports AT_TYPE_DIRECT.
> On FreeBSD 2.2.5R, wcdattach() is called when a AT_TYPE_DIRECT device is
> found. If wcdattach() proves the ZIP drive, it may freeze.
The problem is that at a later stage when the CDROM or Zip is being
probed by sysinstall (we think the CDROM), the transaction is lost. I
am not sure yet whether this is a quirk resulting from the way
sysinstall does things or a genuine issue. (I don't have a Zip at the
moment.)
> To avoid it, there are two solutions.
>
> 1. Use wfd driver in RELENG_2_2 branch that supports ATAPI LS-120 and
> ZIP drives.
This is the initial case, where the system locks solid.
Does anyone know which CDROM the Gateway 3110 machine uses?
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:35:12 1998
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To: Paul Traina <pst@juniper.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...)
In-reply-to: Your message of "09 Feb 1998 19:01:59 PST."
<7yd8gw5fiw.fsf_-_@base.juniper.net>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:34:31 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,
There is a small task team iron out soft update and hence the issue
has quiet down on the mailing list -- so please don't rock the boat.
Enjoy,
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:36:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:36:32 -0600
From: dannyman <dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to submit a diff?
References: <19980209170459.02429@urh.uiuc.edu> <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com>
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In-Reply-To: <29505.887078577@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 06:42:57PM -0800
X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu
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On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 06:42:57PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > the context diff file is weighing in about ~25k, and while the FreeBSD
> > Handbook says i should email diffs to this mailing list, i just wanted to
>
> It does? Could you point me at the reference? It's supposed to tell
> you to use send-pr!
http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook250.html#524
Tim Vanderhoek says he intends to fix it this weekend.
--
//Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=-
\\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=-
aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:40:32 1998
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From: StevenR362@aol.com
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Message-ID: <ae469606.34dfcbbd@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:38:35 EST
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: PCI IDE DMA?
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I was poking around the Tyan web site and noticed their partial
list of drives that do not support dma. I was wondering how much
error checking FreeBSD's ide dma driver does. In other words, if I
enable it with my current drives, is it likely to hose my filesystems?
Does it query the drives and only dma to those that support it?
My current drives are an
NEC DSE1700A 1.7GB pio4 capable drive and an
WDC AC2850F 850MB pio3 capable drive.
My motherboard is a Tyan Tomcat IV D with 32MB EDO and currently
a single pentium 200 MMX running a uniprocessor 2/8/98 current.
Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to fire it up with two cpu's. :)
Also does ide dma work in smp mode?
Steve
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 19:56:25 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
reply-to: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:56:08 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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(Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from
people with experience administering backup strategies for largish
networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.)
I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
similar.)
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in
setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps
being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 23:24:02 1998
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Subject: Re: PCI IDE DMA?
In-Reply-To: <ae469606.34dfcbbd@aol.com> from "StevenR362@aol.com" at "Feb 9, 98 10:38:35 pm"
To: StevenR362@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:24:39 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
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In reply to StevenR362@aol.com who wrote:
>
> I was poking around the Tyan web site and noticed their partial
> list of drives that do not support dma. I was wondering how much
> error checking FreeBSD's ide dma driver does. In other words, if I
> enable it with my current drives, is it likely to hose my filesystems?
> Does it query the drives and only dma to those that support it?
No and Yes.
>
> My current drives are an
> NEC DSE1700A 1.7GB pio4 capable drive and an
> WDC AC2850F 850MB pio3 capable drive.
>
> My motherboard is a Tyan Tomcat IV D with 32MB EDO and currently
> a single pentium 200 MMX running a uniprocessor 2/8/98 current.
> Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to fire it up with two cpu's. :)
> Also does ide dma work in smp mode?
Yes, I run a dual P6/200 with two Maxtor EIDE drives, works like
a charm.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 9 23:33:54 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802100733.FAA03915@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: logrotate, a proposal
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:33:46 -0200 (EDT)
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--ELM887096026-3830-0_
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Hi,
I could not sleep, so I went hacking. :)
I have modified newsyslog.c to create the logrotate. The sources
are attached. If some commiter think it has enough quality to be
integrated, please do so.
I tried not to make many changes to the original sources. In fact,
the rotate function is just the same (except for minor bugs) as the
one in newsyslog.c. Maybe it's useful to make them a crunched program,
but I did not bother doing it this way.
During the conversion, I found the following (cosmetic) bugs in
newsyslog:
1) getopt receives and argument for a -t flag, but it's not used.
2) If newsyslog is not setuid, shouldn't it be owned by bin.bin ?
3) printf lack a \n at the "Start new log..." message, and at the "chmod ..."
message, right below.
4) The rotate algorithm is not very smart. Maybe it should be rewritten.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
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--ELM887096026-3830-0_
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:07:12 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802100806.BAA20965@usr05.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:06:49 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ade@demon.net, mike@smith.net.au,
hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802100148.RAA06098@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 9, 98 05:48:36 pm
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> > Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well.
>
> How much smaller is the ELF loader?
Not that much smaller. But it's having both that's the problem.
> > Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot
> > blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels.
>
> Please do. 8)
I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where
the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex,
unfortunately).
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:32:14 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:06:49 GMT."
<199802100806.BAA20965@usr05.primenet.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:31:55 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > > Actually, the problem is all the a.out cruft being in there as well.
> >
> > How much smaller is the ELF loader?
>
> Not that much smaller. But it's having both that's the problem.
Understood.
> > > Or you could write an ELF program which, when loaded from the boot
> > > blocks that understood ELF, would load a.out kernels.
> >
> > Please do. 8)
>
> I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where
> the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex,
> unfortunately).
Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to
the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more
ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:35:16 1998
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To: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
cc: Ulf Zimmermann <ulf@Alameda.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:39:19 GMT."
<199802040739.HAA23697@awfulhak.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:34:30 -0600
From: Wm Brian McCane <root@bmccane.maxbaud.net>
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> [.....]
> > So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite
> > hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start
> > the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several
> > things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable
> > nor user friendly.
>
> The latest ppp (-current, -stable and http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian)
> has a full working example of a tunnel setup in the PPP OVER TCP
> section of the man page. There's also an example in ppp.conf.sample.
>
> > Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ?
> >
> > Ulf.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936
> > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073
>
> --
> Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
> <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....
>
>
Okay,
I have a program I developed to implement an VPN for a customer. It
uses the tunnel drivers, and all you do is call it with the IP:port on the
host machine you wish to connect to. Each person's machine(s) would need to
be setup with a specific range of IP addresses on their end (I setup 2 zones
192.168.1.* and 192.168.4.* which then routed to each other). This solution
as I already mentioned, will route entire LANs if you need them to: All you
need do is setup tun0, add a route to the other network via the tunnel, and
fire up the program.
voila,
brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 00:41:07 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:40:40 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <199802100733.FAA03915@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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Hi Joao,
I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc.
I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the
lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility?
Thanks,
Danny
/* Daniel O'Callaghan */
/* HiLink Internet <http://www.hilink.com.au/> danny@hilink.com.au */
/* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 01:19:02 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802100918.CAA23887@usr05.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:52 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802100831.AAA00459@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 10, 98 00:31:55 am
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> > I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where
> > the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex,
> > unfortunately).
>
> Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to
> the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more
> ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears.
Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out
booter below 1M".
One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of
running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum)
in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to
protected mode.
Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches
available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request
for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode.
It makes the error of asking the kernel to accept it's idea of memory,
and a couple of other things, though: if the OS specific boot's second
stage runs in real mode, it can find that stuff out for itself. It
would have to, for ELF vs. a.out, unless we were to also make an ELF
second stage (not a bad idea, but more work).
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 01:32:15 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:52 GMT."
<199802100918.CAA23887@usr05.primenet.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:31:56 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > > I'll think about it; it's pretty trivial, I'm betting, except where
> > > the "extras" are concerned (they made some things vastly more complex,
> > > unfortunately).
> >
> > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to
> > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more
> > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears.
>
> Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out
> booter below 1M".
How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as
more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF
as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the
"extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for
people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real
utility.
Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been
sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about
for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops
being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types.
> One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of
> running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum)
> in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to
> protected mode.
I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code
in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel
startup I'm not sure.
> Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches
> available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request
> for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode.
I looked at it a while back; building it was an atrocious pain and I
was somewhat put off by the blocklisting that it used and the
unfriendly syntax of the CLI. I've investigated a few other
bootloaders, but ultimately the one I keep coming back to is the
NetBSD-i386 standalone loader.
If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD,
*this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but
removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own
is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros
using a dental probe.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 02:11:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:57 -0600
From: Zach Heilig <zach@gaffaneys.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings)
References: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199802072254.OAA07140@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800
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On Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not
> exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or
> 7168 bytes.
Doesn't FreeBSD require a 1.44MB disk to install from? That would give
us 18spt, or 9216 bytes. That should give enough room for bad144 as
well as the recent enhancements. Unless there are some harddisks that
have less than 18spt. Looking through /etc/disktab, I see:
pan60|Panasonic Laptop's 60MB IDE:\
:dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#13:ns#17:nc#565:\
^^
So maybe 17 should be the upper limit.
That would make life harder on those people who need to boot from 1.2MB
disks, but they are not going to be installing from any recent install
floppy anyway. That may require yet another directory in
/usr/src/sys/i386/boot for 1.2Meg disks though...
Maybe what we need is a bootblock configuration file similar to what the
kernel uses :-)
--
Zach Heilig -- zach@gaffaneys.com
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To: Zach Heilig <zach@gaffaneys.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Bootblock sizes (was bad144 ravings)
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:09:57 CST."
<19980210040957.27917@gaffaneys.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:19:17 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> On Sat, Feb 07, 1998 at 02:54:53PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> > The issue at hand here is the size of the 'boot2' file, which may not
> > exceed 14 sectors @ 512B each (in order to fit on a 15spt disk), or
> > 7168 bytes.
>
> Doesn't FreeBSD require a 1.44MB disk to install from? That would give
> us 18spt, or 9216 bytes. That should give enough room for bad144 as
> well as the recent enhancements. Unless there are some harddisks that
> have less than 18spt. Looking through /etc/disktab, I see:
>
> pan60|Panasonic Laptop's 60MB IDE:\
> :dt=ST506:ty=winchester:se#512:nt#13:ns#17:nc#565:\
> ^^
> So maybe 17 should be the upper limit.
That won't let the bootblocks hide inside the label space in a
filesystem on a dedicated disk. We've been through this already; I'm
sorry for giving the wrong justification in my previous message.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802101026.DAA25351@usr05.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:26:55 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802100931.BAA00698@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 10, 98 01:31:56 am
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> > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to
> > > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more
> > > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears.
> >
> > Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out
> > booter below 1M".
>
> How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as
> more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF
> as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the
> "extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for
> people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real
> utility.
Well, they are already in the a,out kernel, right? Where do they get
loaded so that I won't step on them?
> Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been
> sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about
> for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops
> being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types.
Well, not really. I technically wouldn't have to write a third stage
for an ELF kernel, at least for it to work.
> > One very real problem is that we need to start thinking in terms of
> > running the initial kernel code (a second stage boot at a minimum)
> > in real mode, and making it the kernel's responsibility to go to
> > protected mode.
>
> I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code
> in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel
> startup I'm not sure.
Either one works, but the problem is that if there is only a third stage
booter for a.out and not for ELF (the initially simplest picture), then
if the kernel goes protected, it saves a lot of work on a third stage
ELF loader to get a minimal implementation.
> > Have you looked at the GRUB code? It claims to have FreeBSD patches
> > available, though I'm sure they are quite dated. It makes the same request
> > for the kernel to do its own transition to protected mode.
>
> I looked at it a while back; building it was an atrocious pain and I
> was somewhat put off by the blocklisting that it used and the
> unfriendly syntax of the CLI. I've investigated a few other
> bootloaders, but ultimately the one I keep coming back to is the
> NetBSD-i386 standalone loader.
>
> If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD,
> *this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but
> removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own
> is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros
> using a dental probe.
Heh. "This won't hurt... ...there".
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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Message-Id: <199802091904.UAA27173@sagem.fr>
Subject: TOP: proposal to add sort feature
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:04:23 +0100 (CET)
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--ELM887051063-26654-0_
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I have modified the top utility this weekend in order to have the sort option.
I have put the patch file for -stable (CTM src-2.2 611) in attachment.
This patch works on -current (CTM cvs-cur 4053) but I haven't compile it.
The job done was to modify the current machine.c according to the top
original m-sunos5.c and adding a compile option in the Makefile.
I have used exactly the same sunos5 macros even if the ORDERKEY_PCTCPU
is not really a nice one.
It wasn't a great effort to do that since the needed code was completly written
on FreeBSD machine.c ;-).
--
Christian Haury (Christian.Haury@sagem.fr) SAGEM Eragny - France
phone : +33 1 34 30 53 93 fax : +33 1 34 30 50 28
<legal> Opinions hereabove are my own and not those of my employer </legal>
--ELM887051063-26654-0_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=DIFF
Content-Description: /usr/src/usr.bin/top patch file
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
*** ./usr.bin/top/Makefile.ctm Tue Apr 29 09:44:15 1997
--- ./usr.bin/top/Makefile Mon Feb 9 18:56:48 1998
***************
*** 3,9 ****
TOPDIR= ${.CURDIR}/../../contrib/top
.PATH: ${TOPDIR}
! CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_GETOPT -I${.CURDIR} -I${TOPDIR}
#
# The table size should be a prime number approximately twice as
--- 3,9 ----
TOPDIR= ${.CURDIR}/../../contrib/top
.PATH: ${TOPDIR}
! CFLAGS+= -DHAVE_GETOPT -DORDER -I${.CURDIR} -I${TOPDIR}
#
# The table size should be a prime number approximately twice as
*** ./usr.bin/top/machine.c.ctm Mon Sep 29 10:12:55 1997
--- ./usr.bin/top/machine.c Mon Feb 9 19:45:02 1998
***************
*** 212,217 ****
--- 212,220 ----
NULL
};
+ /* these are names given to allowed sorting orders -- first is default */
+ char *ordernames[] =
+ {"cpu", "size", "res", "time", NULL};
/* these are for keeping track of the proc array */
***************
*** 300,305 ****
--- 303,309 ----
statics->cpustate_names = cpustatenames;
statics->memory_names = memorynames;
statics->swap_names = swapnames;
+ statics->order_names = ordernames;
/* all done! */
return(0);
***************
*** 686,701 ****
/* comparison routine for qsort */
/*
! * proc_compare - comparison function for "qsort"
! * Compares the resource consumption of two processes using five
! * distinct keys. The keys (in descending order of importance) are:
! * percent cpu, cpu ticks, state, resident set size, total virtual
! * memory usage. The process states are ordered as follows (from least
! * to most important): WAIT, zombie, sleep, stop, start, run. The
! * array declaration below maps a process state index into a number
! * that reflects this ordering.
*/
static unsigned char sorted_state[] =
{
0, /* not used */
--- 690,711 ----
/* comparison routine for qsort */
/*
! * proc_compares - a set of comparison function for "qsort"
! *
*/
+ int compare_cpu();
+ int compare_size();
+ int compare_res();
+ int compare_time();
+
+ int (*proc_compares[])() = {
+ compare_cpu,
+ compare_size,
+ compare_res,
+ compare_time,
+ NULL };
+
static unsigned char sorted_state[] =
{
0, /* not used */
***************
*** 707,714 ****
4 /* stop */
};
int
! proc_compare(pp1, pp2)
struct proc **pp1;
struct proc **pp2;
--- 717,748 ----
4 /* stop */
};
+ #define ORDERKEY_PCTCPU /* compare percent cpu (pctcpu) */ \
+ if (lresult = PP(p2, p_pctcpu) - PP(p1, p_pctcpu),\
+ (result = lresult > 0.0 ? 1 : lresult < 0.0 ? -1 : 0) == 0)
+
+ #define ORDERKEY_CPTICKS /* compare cpu ticks (cpticks) */ \
+ if ((result = PP(p2, p_cpticks) - PP(p1, p_cpticks)) == 0)
+
+ #define ORDERKEY_STATE /* compare process state */ \
+ if ((result = sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p2, p_stat)] - \
+ sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p1, p_stat)]) == 0)
+
+ #define ORDERKEY_PRIO /* compare priority */ \
+ if ((result = PP(p2, p_priority) - PP(p1, p_priority)) == 0)
+
+ #define ORDERKEY_RSSIZE /* compare resident set size (rssize) */ \
+ if ((result = VP(p2, vm_rssize) - VP(p1, vm_rssize)) == 0)
+
+ #define ORDERKEY_MEM /* compare total virtual memory used */ \
+ if ((result = PROCSIZE(p2) - PROCSIZE(p1)) == 0)
+
+
+ /* compare_cpu : the comparison function for sorting by cpu percentage */
+ /* (original proc_compare rewritten with macros) */
+
int
! compare_cpu(pp1, pp2)
struct proc **pp1;
struct proc **pp2;
***************
*** 723,755 ****
p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1;
p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2;
! /* compare percent cpu (pctcpu) */
! if ((lresult = PP(p2, p_pctcpu) - PP(p1, p_pctcpu)) == 0)
! {
! /* use cpticks to break the tie */
! if ((result = PP(p2, p_cpticks) - PP(p1, p_cpticks)) == 0)
! {
! /* use process state to break the tie */
! if ((result = sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p2, p_stat)] -
! sorted_state[(unsigned char) PP(p1, p_stat)]) == 0)
! {
! /* use priority to break the tie */
! if ((result = PP(p2, p_priority) - PP(p1, p_priority)) == 0)
! {
! /* use resident set size (rssize) to break the tie */
! if ((result = VP(p2, vm_rssize) - VP(p1, vm_rssize)) == 0)
! {
! /* use total memory to break the tie */
! result = PROCSIZE(p2) - PROCSIZE(p1);
! }
! }
! }
! }
! }
! else
! {
! result = lresult < 0 ? -1 : 1;
! }
return(result);
}
--- 757,856 ----
p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1;
p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2;
! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU
! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS
! ORDERKEY_STATE
! ORDERKEY_PRIO
! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE
! ORDERKEY_MEM
! ;
!
! return(result);
! }
!
! /* compare_size - the comparison function for sorting by total memory usage */
!
! int
! compare_size(pp1, pp2)
!
! struct proc **pp1;
! struct proc **pp2;
!
! {
! register struct kinfo_proc *p1;
! register struct kinfo_proc *p2;
! register int result;
! register pctcpu lresult;
!
! /* remove one level of indirection */
! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1;
! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2;
!
! ORDERKEY_MEM
! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE
! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU
! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS
! ORDERKEY_STATE
! ORDERKEY_PRIO
! ;
!
! return(result);
! }
!
! /* compare_res - the comparison function for sorting by resident set size */
!
! int
! compare_res(pp1, pp2)
!
! struct proc **pp1;
! struct proc **pp2;
!
! {
! register struct kinfo_proc *p1;
! register struct kinfo_proc *p2;
! register int result;
! register pctcpu lresult;
!
! /* remove one level of indirection */
! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1;
! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2;
!
! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE
! ORDERKEY_MEM
! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU
! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS
! ORDERKEY_STATE
! ORDERKEY_PRIO
! ;
!
! return(result);
! }
!
! /* compare_time - the comparison function for sorting by total cpu time */
!
! int
! compare_time(pp1, pp2)
!
! struct proc **pp1;
! struct proc **pp2;
!
! {
! register struct kinfo_proc *p1;
! register struct kinfo_proc *p2;
! register int result;
! register pctcpu lresult;
!
! /* remove one level of indirection */
! p1 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp1;
! p2 = *(struct kinfo_proc **) pp2;
!
! ORDERKEY_CPTICKS
! ORDERKEY_PCTCPU
! ORDERKEY_STATE
! ORDERKEY_PRIO
! ORDERKEY_MEM
! ORDERKEY_RSSIZE
! ;
return(result);
}
--ELM887051063-26654-0_--
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 03:50:49 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Luigi's audio drivers
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 10 Feb 1998 12:50:33 +0100
Message-ID: <xzpk9b3el12.fsf@hrotti.ifi.uio.no>
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Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go
into -stable?
1) they seem to work well,
2) if you don't actually use them, they don't change anything except
add a few lines in files.i386 and in soundcard.h, and
3) reinstalling them after every cvsup really sucks :)
--
* Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:01:08 1998
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To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav)
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers
In-reply-to: Your message of "10 Feb 1998 12:50:33 +0100."
<xzpk9b3el12.fsf@hrotti.ifi.uio.no>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:40 -0800
Message-ID: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go
> into -stable?
>
> 1) they seem to work well,
>
> 2) if you don't actually use them, they don't change anything except
> add a few lines in files.i386 and in soundcard.h, and
Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi
soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has
time.
Jordan
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Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers
References: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com>
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 10 Feb 1998 13:09:02 +0100
In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:40 -0800"
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"Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com> writes:
> > Pretty please with sugar on top: can Luigi Rizzo's audio drivers go
> > into -stable?
> Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi
> soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has
> time.
OK, I'll be patient then :)
--
* Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:17:47 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802101048.LAA15574@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:39 +0100 (MET)
Cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <18798.887112040@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 10, 98 04:00:21 am
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> Actually, right now the changes to soundcard.h break the non-Luigi
> soundcard drivers for me. Luigi said he'd work on it when he has
> time.
and I am still waiting for the cvs-web interface to come up again to see
what's the status of the driver in -stable...
i guess i'll have to resort to ftp...
cheers
luigi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:19:40 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Luigi's audio drivers
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:39 +0100."
<199802101048.LAA15574@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:19:12 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> and I am still waiting for the cvs-web interface to come up again to see
> what's the status of the driver in -stable...
If I knew how to bring it back, I would. :(
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:22:22 1998
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From: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu>
To: <java@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: whereis java?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:27 -0500
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the pointer to the java download on http://www.freebsd.org/java/ doesn't
seem to work, anonymous logins aren't being taken on hub.freebsd.org, also i
was wondering if anyone had any sucsess getting the java version of ICQ to
work with a socks5 proxy?
it's been "sorta" working here and there, in fact with messing with my NATd
setup it almost started working however a lot of features weren't working.
has there been any recent updates on the jdk1.1.5 though?
-Alfred
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:37:05 1998
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From: Ruslan Ermilov <ru@ucb.crimea.ua>
Message-Id: <199802101233.OAA08546@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <199802100834.CAA07013@bmccane.maxbaud.net> from "Wm Brian McCane" at "Feb 10, 98 02:34:30 am"
To: root@bmccane.maxbaud.net (Wm Brian McCane)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:33:10 +0200 (EET)
Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi, guys!
If you want, take a look at
http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel
This program uses divert sockets and tunnels IP thru UDP.
You can tunnel a whole network, a single host, and it can be
done based on any firewall rule (e.g. on any combination of
src/dst hosts).
I've written this program to build a distributed Intranet network
in our organization. We have four departments, each attached to
some ISP, and we use only four real IP addresses to communicate with
each other. And we use one logical intranet network.
In the meantime, I'm planning to implement a crypto-feature.
Let me know if you have a questions about how it works.
Your feedback would be appreciated too.
At the moment of writing there are 94 fetches of my program
since Dec 13, 1997.
Please use subject: IPTUNNEL if you have a questions about this program.
Once Wm Brian McCane wrote:
> > [.....]
> > > So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite
> > > hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start
> > > the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several
> > > things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable
> > > nor user friendly.
> >
> > The latest ppp (-current, -stable and http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian)
> > has a full working example of a tunnel setup in the PPP OVER TCP
> > section of the man page. There's also an example in ppp.conf.sample.
> >
> > > Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ?
> > >
> > > Ulf.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936
> > > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073
> >
> > --
> > Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
> > <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
> > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....
> >
> >
> Okay,
>
> I have a program I developed to implement an VPN for a customer. It
> uses the tunnel drivers, and all you do is call it with the IP:port on the
> host machine you wish to connect to. Each person's machine(s) would need to
> be setup with a specific range of IP addresses on their end (I setup 2 zones
> 192.168.1.* and 192.168.4.* which then routed to each other). This solution
> as I already mentioned, will route entire LANs if you need them to: All you
> need do is setup tun0, add a route to the other network via the tunnel, and
> fire up the program.
>
> voila,
> brian
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
>
Regards,
--
Ruslan A. Ermilov System Administrator
ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank
+380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea
2426679 ICQ Network, UIN
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 04:53:41 1998
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To: Ruslan Ermilov <ru@ucb.crimea.ua>
cc: root@bmccane.maxbaud.net (Wm Brian McCane), brian@Awfulhak.org,
ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:33:10 +0200."
<199802101233.OAA08546@relay.ucb.crimea.ua>
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature
of crypto...
Cheers,
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 05:31:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:31:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Timmons <skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com>
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We're happy with Amanda; right now we are running it on Sparc/Solaris with
a 4-tape changer and backing up 12 systems. Another machine running
-stable also runs the same configuration reliably and will take up the
chore while the Sparcstation is refurbished.
If you have a big holding disk and a fast network you can get a lot done
in a hurry. The holding disk is also important if there will be a lot of
days when you can't change tapes - incrementals will still be run and
stored on the holding disk until you flush them to tape. Of course, a
changer is even better - since you can limit trips to the tape drive to at
least every four days (or more, depending on your changer.)
If you're interested in becoming a first-time amanda user, I'd recommend
trying the port of 2.4.0b6 which I mailed to -ports yesterday. Support
has congealed for tar and other backup types you might need for non-BSD
based systems, not to mention many bug fixes and architectural changes.
*WARNING* amanda-2.4 is not backwards compatible with 2.3 clients/servers.
-Chris
On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote:
>
> (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from
> people with experience administering backup strategies for largish
> networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.)
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
> strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
> data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
> similar.)
>
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in
> setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps
> being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project.
>
> --
> \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
> \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
> \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
> \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 06:08:39 1998
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Message-ID: <19980210170819.38551@sensi.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:08:19 +0300
From: vadik likholetov <vadik@sensi.org>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: my arlan 655 driver
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This is driver for Aironet's Airlan 655.
It's port of linux driver with some modifications from Alex Kicelew.
It works in TMA (640<->655) and non-TMA(655<->655) mode.
The driver is very alpha quality and will be rereleased very soon.
The latest version driver from http://www.sensi.org/~vadik/freebsd/
Seems to work under 2.2x.
Bugfixes/comments/enhancements are welcome -- just mail me :-)
--
vadik likholetov
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 07:17:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:03 -0800 (PST)
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To: jkh@time.cdrom.com
CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <24936.887047908@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com)
Subject: Re: Japan trip report..
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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* As promised, I did a little trip report on my recent PR tour of Tokyo.
* In keeping with the modern trend towards using the web for everything,
* and especially since there were so many images involved, I did my
* report in HTML for a change. Please see:
*
* http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/japan/report
*
* Thanks to all the FreeBSD developers and friends who were such
* gracious hosts during my stay there! You made this a most enjoyable
* experience indeed...
This is most interesting! By the way, the big "T" painted on the
street in the first picture means "there is an intersection here". If
you are reading this and are wondering why the hell we need that.
Take a look at the picture, and you'll see the streets are so crowded
it's hard to navigate your car without those marks....
The "odd Japanese meal" is called "okonomi-yaki". And you are that it
is reqired of all foreigners, we take great pleasure in looking at you
guys squirm and fumble around the pancakes! :)
Satoshi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 07:54:46 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Thomas David Rivers <rivers@dignus.com>
Message-Id: <199802101559.KAA05589@lakes.dignus.com>
To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
Cc: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>
> On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 03:23:45PM +0900, Michael Hancock wrote:
> > Eivind,
> >
> > I'd like to see "sanity checks" (assertions) and diagnostic logging
> > separated. DIAGNOSTICS turns on both, but I'd like to be able to run an
> > assertion checking kernel without all the logging.
>
> Absolutely agreed. I was thinking of
>
> _INVARIANTS - Enable invariant/postcondition checking (expensive)
> _ASSERTS - Enable precondition and other cheap assertions
> INVARIANT_CODE - Compile in invariant functions.
> DIAGNOSTIC - Messages to help tracing errors; non-overwhelming amount.
>
> The difference between _INVARIANTS and INVARIANT_CODE is that INVARIANT_CODE
> just includes the actual code necessary to be able to check an invariant,
> while _INVARIANTS actually throw in the code that do calls to check the
> invariant.
>
> The reason for the underscores is that header files are likely to depend on
> those options. The separation of the INVARIANT_CODE and _INVARIANTS is to
> be able to support enabling invariant-checks in only some files. Separation
> of _INVARIANTS and _ASSERTS is that there is often a factor of >1000
> difference between the cost of checking pre-conditions and the cost of
> checking post-conditions/data-structure invariants.
One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an
underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit
unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors
for these. Just an observation.
- Dave Rivers -
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 08:00:10 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:59:55 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Thomas David Rivers <rivers@dignus.com>
Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
References: <199802101559.KAA05589@lakes.dignus.com>
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On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 10:59:38AM -0500, Thomas David Rivers wrote:
> One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an
> underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit
> unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors
> for these. Just an observation.
Isn't the point that these are in the implementation namespace and reserved
for operating system use?
That's why I used them, anyway. Any better suggestions are welcome, of
course.
Eivind.
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
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Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980210193656.294G-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 10, 98 07:40:40 pm"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:28:32 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan)
// Hi Joao,
//
// I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc.
// I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the
// lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility?
My main concern when creating this program was just extract the rotate
facility from newsyslog. IMHO, newsyslog sources are a mess, and need
a complete rewrite, but I forced myself to make the fewest possible
changes.
If I try to make the change you ask, I'll be tempted to change EVERYTHING,
including newsyslog. If we had a logrotate working, newsyslog could just
call it with the right arguments. If this is ok for everybody, I'll try
to find some time this weekend to do this. If someone has any other idea
for logrotate and/or newsyslog, please tell me before that.
BTW: I have done this previous work based on -stable newsyslog. Are there
significative changes in -current ?
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:02:16 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802101701.PAA11416@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980210193656.294G-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 10, 98 07:40:40 pm"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:01:42 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan)
// I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc.
// I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the
// lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility?
Just occurred to me:
What should happen if somebody specifies a date format that have a limit
on count and a count bigger than this limit ? For example, %h and a
count of 20.
Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old
logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file
date for this.
Also, strftime needs a date as an argument. Which date would I feed
into logrotate ?
You don't have this problem in the script for wtmp rotating because
1) it does not delete old files, just overwrites them
2) it's always called at the first day of the month, so "yesterday"
is the reference month.
Maybe it's better not add such a feature in logrotate, and leave only
numeric extensions. (This does not mean I've changed my mind about
newsyslog and logrotate needing to be fully rewritten)
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:18:05 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Curt Sampson <cjs@netbsd.org>
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Reply-To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com
Subject: tail -F patches
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This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd
forward it on to you folks.
The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make
it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is
rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated.
cjs
Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/
Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates
Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
Index: forward.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/forward.c,v
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -u -r1.8 forward.c
--- forward.c 1997/10/19 23:45:08 1.8
+++ forward.c 1998/02/09 19:21:43
@@ -91,6 +91,15 @@
{
int ch;
struct timeval second;
+ int dostat = 0;
+ struct stat statbuf;
+ off_t lastsize = 0;
+ dev_t lastdev;
+ ino_t lastino;
+
+ /* Keep track of file's previous incarnation. */
+ lastdev = sbp->st_dev;
+ lastino = sbp->st_ino;
switch(style) {
case FBYTES:
@@ -166,9 +175,11 @@
}
for (;;) {
- while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF)
+ while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) {
+ lastsize++; /* track size changes between stats */
if (putchar(ch) == EOF)
oerr();
+ }
if (ferror(fp)) {
ierr();
return;
@@ -186,6 +197,39 @@
if (select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, &second) == -1)
err(1, "select: %s", strerror(errno));
clearerr(fp);
+
+ if (fflag == 1)
+ continue;
+ /*
+ * We restat the original filename every five seconds. If
+ * the size is ever smaller than the last time we read it,
+ * the file has probably been truncated; if the inode or
+ * or device number are different, it has been rotated.
+ * This causes us to close it, reopen it, and continue
+ * the tail -f. If stat returns an error (say, because
+ * the file has been removed), just continue with what
+ * we've got open now.
+ */
+ if (dostat > 0) {
+ dostat -= 1;
+ } else {
+ dostat = 5;
+ if (stat(fname, &statbuf) == 0) {
+ if (statbuf.st_dev != lastdev ||
+ statbuf.st_ino != lastino ||
+ statbuf.st_size < lastsize) {
+ lastdev = statbuf.st_dev;
+ lastino = statbuf.st_ino;
+ lastsize = 0;
+ fclose(fp);
+ if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL)
+ err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s",
+ fname, strerror(errno));
+ } else {
+ lastsize = statbuf.st_size;
+ }
+ }
+ }
}
}
Index: tail.1
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.1,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.5 tail.1
--- tail.1 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5
+++ tail.1 1998/02/09 19:21:44
@@ -44,7 +44,11 @@
.Nd display the last part of a file
.Sh SYNOPSIS
.Nm
-.Op Fl f Li | Fl r
+.Oo
+.Fl f |
+.Fl F |
+.Fl r
+.Oc
.Oo
.Fl b Ar number |
.Fl c Ar number |
@@ -93,6 +97,21 @@
The
.Fl f
option is ignored if the standard input is a pipe, but not if it is a FIFO.
+.It Fl F
+The
+.Fl F
+option is the same as the
+.Fl f
+option, except that every five seconds
+.Nm
+will check to see if the file named on the command line has been
+shortened or moved (it is considered moved if the inode or device
+number changes) and, if so, it will close
+the current file, open the filename given, print out the entire
+contents, and continue to wait for more data to be appended.
+This option is used to follow log files though rotation by
+.Xr newsyslog 8
+or similar programs.
.It Fl n Ar number
The location is
.Ar number
Index: tail.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.c,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.5 tail.c
--- tail.c 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5
+++ tail.c 1998/02/09 19:21:44
@@ -111,8 +111,11 @@
obsolete(argv);
style = NOTSET;
- while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "b:c:fn:r")) != -1)
+ while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Fb:c:fn:r")) != -1)
switch(ch) {
+ case 'F':
+ fflag = 2;
+ break;
case 'b':
ARG(512, FBYTES, RBYTES);
break;
@@ -136,7 +139,7 @@
argv += optind;
if (fflag && argc > 1)
- err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file");
+ err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file");
/*
* If displaying in reverse, don't permit follow option, and convert
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From: BSDI Customer Support <support@bsdi.com>
To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019]
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This is an automated response. There is no need to reply now.
Your message regarding:
tail -F patches
was received by BSDI Support on Tuesday, 10-Feb-1998 10:20:13.
and was assigned request number 47019.
In order help us track the progress of this request, we ask that
you please include the exact string [BSDI-Support-Request #47019]
in the subject line of any further mail about this particular
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Curt Sampson <cjs@netbsd.org>
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Reply-To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, support@bsdi.com
Subject: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019]
Message-Id: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980210090527.5139A-100000@cynic.portal.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Cc: support@bsdi.com
This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd
forward it on to you folks.
The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make
it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is
rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated.
cjs
Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/
Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates
Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
Index: forward.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/forward.c,v
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -u -r1.8 forward.c
--- forward.c 1997/10/19 23:45:08 1.8
+++ forward.c 1998/02/09 19:21:43
@@ -91,6 +91,15 @@
{
int ch;
struct timeval second;
+ int dostat = 0;
+ struct stat statbuf;
+ off_t lastsize = 0;
+ dev_t lastdev;
+ ino_t lastino;
+
+ /* Keep track of file's previous incarnation. */
+ lastdev = sbp->st_dev;
+ lastino = sbp->st_ino;
switch(style) {
case FBYTES:
@@ -166,9 +175,11 @@
}
for (;;) {
- while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF)
+ while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) {
+ lastsize++; /* track size changes between stats */
if (putchar(ch) == EOF)
oerr();
+ }
if (ferror(fp)) {
ierr();
return;
@@ -186,6 +197,39 @@
if (select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, &second) == -1)
err(1, "select: %s", strerror(errno));
clearerr(fp);
+
+ if (fflag == 1)
+ continue;
+ /*
+ * We restat the original filename every five seconds. If
+ * the size is ever smaller than the last time we read it,
+ * the file has probably been truncated; if the inode or
+ * or device number are different, it has been rotated.
+ * This causes us to close it, reopen it, and continue
+ * the tail -f. If stat returns an error (say, because
+ * the file has been removed), just continue with what
+ * we've got open now.
+ */
+ if (dostat > 0) {
+ dostat -= 1;
+ } else {
+ dostat = 5;
+ if (stat(fname, &statbuf) == 0) {
+ if (statbuf.st_dev != lastdev ||
+ statbuf.st_ino != lastino ||
+ statbuf.st_size < lastsize) {
+ lastdev = statbuf.st_dev;
+ lastino = statbuf.st_ino;
+ lastsize = 0;
+ fclose(fp);
+ if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL)
+ err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s",
+ fname, strerror(errno));
+ } else {
+ lastsize = statbuf.st_size;
+ }
+ }
+ }
}
}
Index: tail.1
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.1,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.5 tail.1
--- tail.1 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5
+++ tail.1 1998/02/09 19:21:44
@@ -44,7 +44,11 @@
.Nd display the last part of a file
.Sh SYNOPSIS
.Nm
-.Op Fl f Li | Fl r
+.Oo
+.Fl f |
+.Fl F |
+.Fl r
+.Oc
.Oo
.Fl b Ar number |
.Fl c Ar number |
@@ -93,6 +97,21 @@
The
.Fl f
option is ignored if the standard input is a pipe, but not if it is a FIFO.
+.It Fl F
+The
+.Fl F
+option is the same as the
+.Fl f
+option, except that every five seconds
+.Nm
+will check to see if the file named on the command line has been
+shortened or moved (it is considered moved if the inode or device
+number changes) and, if so, it will close
+the current file, open the filename given, print out the entire
+contents, and continue to wait for more data to be appended.
+This option is used to follow log files though rotation by
+.Xr newsyslog 8
+or similar programs.
.It Fl n Ar number
The location is
.Ar number
Index: tail.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/src/usr.bin/tail/tail.c,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.5 tail.c
--- tail.c 1997/10/19 23:45:11 1.5
+++ tail.c 1998/02/09 19:21:44
@@ -111,8 +111,11 @@
obsolete(argv);
style = NOTSET;
- while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "b:c:fn:r")) != -1)
+ while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Fb:c:fn:r")) != -1)
switch(ch) {
+ case 'F':
+ fflag = 2;
+ break;
case 'b':
ARG(512, FBYTES, RBYTES);
break;
@@ -136,7 +139,7 @@
argv += optind;
if (fflag && argc > 1)
- err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file");
+ err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file");
/*
* If displaying in reverse, don't permit follow option, and convert
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:30:46 1998
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To: cjs@netbsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: tail -F patches [BSDI-Support-Request #47019]
In-reply-to: Curt Sampson's message of Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:17:37 PST.
References: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980210090527.5139A-100000@cynic.portal.ca>
Cc: support@bsdi.com
Reply-To: Pat McClanahan <support@bsdi.com>
From: Pat McClanahan <support@bsdi.com>
Organization: Berkeley Software Design, Inc.
X-Request-Do: resolve
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Curt Sampson writes:
> This was really popular with the NetBSD crowd, so I thought I'd
> forward it on to you folks.
>
> The following patches to tail(1) add a -F option which will make
> it continue to follow data appended to a file even if the file is
> rotated by newsyslog(8) or something similar, or truncated.
I'll pass this along to the engineers.
====================================================================
/\ Pat McClanahan Berkeley Software Design, Inc.
/\/ \ patm@bsdi.com 5575 Tech Center Dr. #110
/ \ \ 719-593-9445 Colorado Springs, CO 80919
====================================================================
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:35:05 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:34:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Nathan Ahlstrom <nrahlstr@gloria.cord.edu>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com>
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> I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
> strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
> data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
> similar.)
I have been running my college's backups using amanda on 6 BSDi machines
and 1 exabyte tape drive...it has been working quite well. Toss in a few
scripts to automate some things and it runs more or less unattended.
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in
> setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps
> being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project.
Amanda is fairly easy to setup and run. I would definitely be willing to
help out in any way possible.
Thanks,
Nathan Ahlstrom
nrahlstr@cord.edu
http://www.cord.edu/homepages/nrahlstr/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 09:55:30 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:54:14 -0700
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: "Alfred Perlstein" <perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu>
Cc: <java@FreeBSD.ORG>, <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: whereis java?
In-Reply-To: <001e01bd361d$db1e7600$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu>
References: <001e01bd361d$db1e7600$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu>
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> the pointer to the java download on http://www.freebsd.org/java/ doesn't
> seem to work, anonymous logins aren't being taken on hub.freebsd.org, also i
> was wondering if anyone had any sucsess getting the java version of ICQ to
> work with a socks5 proxy?
Can you give me about 8 hours? I promise you'll hear something then,
but I need to gamma-test my own release (it's been beta-tested), and
once I'm happy I didn't shoot my foot off, it'll be announced *AND*
available w/out hub's ftp.
> has there been any recent updates on the jdk1.1.5 though?
Yes, but they haven't (yet) been announced publically.
Nate
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 10:06:21 1998
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From: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199802100646.HAA06998@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-Reply-To: <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 9, 98 07:56:08 pm"
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:46:47 +0100 (MET)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands
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As Mike Smith wrote...
>
> (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from
> people with experience administering backup strategies for largish
> networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.)
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
> strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
> data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
> similar.)
I'd go for either a DLT loader or maybe an AIT loader. DLT gives you
something like 35 Gb uncompressed/tape. AIT is newer technology, with
according to some source the aspirations and potential to surpass DLTs
in capacity and features. For now, IMHO DLT has the advantage that it
is more field proven.
Problems: DLT loaders are expensive, as is the media. I'd checkout
www.overland.com, they make a very nice loader, which is even expandable.
I had the opportunity to dismantle one (Digital resells them) and they
look mechanically very nicely built.
Wilko
_ ______________________________________________________________________
| / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
|/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
--------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix --
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 10:59:36 1998
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Date: 10 Feb 1998 13:01 EST
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "Andrew Atrens" <atrens@nortel.ca>
Subject: pci-ide-dma side effects
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Hi All,
I'm running "1/30/98 - current", on an AMD-K6/200 w. ASUS TP97 mobo.
Last night curiousity got the best of me, and I was tempted to try out the
wd driver's DMA support.
To do this I changed my kernel config from:
controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff vector wdintr
to:
controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff vector wdintr
To make a long story short, I launched the new kernel, DMA *was* detected:
Probing for devices on PCI bus 0:
chip0: <Intel 82439TX System Controller (MTXC)> rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0
chip1: <Intel 82371AB PCI to ISA bridge> rev 0x01 on pci0.1.0
ide_pci0: <Intel PIIX4 Bus-master IDE controller> rev 0x01 on pci0.1.1
chip2: <Intel 82371AB USB host controller> rev 0x01 int d irq 255 on pci0.1.2
chip3: <Intel 82371AB power management> rev 0x01 on pci0.1.3
vga0: <ATI Mach64-GX graphics accelerator> rev 0x03 on pci0.9.0
wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xa0ffa0ff on isa
wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): <ST52520A>, DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16
wd0: 2446MB (5009760 sectors), 4970 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S
launched X, then ran `Bonnie'.
What happened next is hard to describe. :)
My X screen was filled with (for want of a better description) `marching ants'.
It was as though the screen was `swimming'. I suspended `Bonnie' and the
swimming stopped. :) Lots of garbage on the screen, so I did a screen refresh
and everything went back to normal. I resumed `Bonnie' and swimming started
again on cue. Then my monitor appeared to lose the graphics card sync signal
and began behaving very strangely, then it went into power-save mode and
shut down. I re-suspended `Bonnie', did some CTRL-ALT-F? things and back it
came! I killed and re-started Bonnie again, quickly switched to a cons screen,
started `top' and waited for Bonnie to complete. I then unmounted and fsck'd
the filesystem - it was clean as a whistle! And so ended the experiment.
Needless to say, I've backed away from ide DMA for now. :)
Comments? Have I done something glaringly stupid here to expect this result? :)
(The purpose of this post, actually, is to provide some feedback to the
IDE DMA folks - to hopefully help them find a bugster, if one exists. I am
willing to be a guinea pig if someone requires more data about this
anomoly. If hackers is the wrong forum for such a post please let me know so
that I may correctly address future sightings. )
No flames please.
Andrew.
(opinions mine, not Nortel's)
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 11:13:10 1998
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Message-Id: <199802101912.OAA06216@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. (a vendor speaks...)
In-Reply-To: <7yd8gw5fiw.fsf_-_@base.juniper.net> from Paul Traina at "Feb 9, 98 07:01:59 pm"
To: pst@juniper.net (Paul Traina)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:12:44 -0500 (EST)
Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Paul Traina said:
> For what it's worth, we would have no objection to Kirk's hooks and stubs
> going into FreeBSD, nor would we have any objection to other similar projects
> as long as the non-poison'ed version of the OS does not suffer.
>
> Suffer includes, but is not limited to, performance degredation and bit-rot.
>
The only think that Kirk's code forces is some bugfixing in our tree. Without
his stuff, there is no negative effect. I happen to work at a place where
we have the same concerns, and there is nothing but good happening, for
both adopters and non-adopters.
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 11:33:19 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802101932.LAA02216@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980210093828.6400C-100000@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> from Alex Nash at "Feb 10, 98 10:58:39 am"
To: nash@Mcs.Net
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:32:30 -0800 (PST)
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[ private email re short term fix to ipfw code, copying to hackers... ]
Alex Nash writes:
> > Archie Cobbs writes:
> > > - If it's a pass/accept rule -> packet should match (ie, PASS)
> > > - If it's a deny/reject rule -> packet should NOT match (ie, PASS)
> > > - If it's some other kind of rule (skipto, divert), .. leave it
> > > like it already is -> packet should match, though this is still
> > > broken.
>
> I can't see passing packet fragments which are not supposed to pass
> as being the right thing to do unless someone explicitly asks for it. If
> we were to do that, why not pass all fragments?
Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is
that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether
a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a
non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information
(ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw
are supposed to be.
Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first
fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that
zero-offset fragment?
Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that
the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset
fragments?
In other words, if we fill in all the details of the ipfw man page,
then we'll have our answer.
As a side note: in any case, we need to modify check_ipfw_struct()
to disallow any rules which (a) have port ranges or TCP flags, and
(b) have the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag set. Such rules simply don't make sense.
But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag?
Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments?
PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus
everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset
fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided.
HOWEVER, this conclusion poses a problem in the port range/TCP flags
case in the context of the current code -- you simply don't have enough
information (ie., the first fragment) available to compute the "right"
answer. SO -- we simply have to make an exception in this case and
document it.
Now the question is.. which exception to make?
#1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags
to non-zero offset fragments.
#2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing
the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag
restrictions.
#3 Do something more complicated (like I proposed).
Note that #2 is our current behavior. Now I'm thinking we should
stay with that. #1 is OK too. In any case, we have to choose one of
the above, and most importantly we need to DOCUMENT it... e.g:
#1
The "frag" option restricts the rule to only matching non-zero
offset IP fragment packets. Lack of this option means the rule
may match any IP packet. However, there is one exception to this:
if a rule specifies a port range or TCP flags, then the rule
will never match non-zero offset fragments, since such fragments
do not contain this information. This means that these rules can
possibly fail to match fragments of packets for which they were
intended.
#2
The "frag" option restricts the rule to only matching non-zero
offset IP fragment packets. Lack of this option means the rule
may match any IP packet. However, there is one exception to this:
if a rule specifies a port range or TCP flags, then these options
are temporarily removed from the rule when it is applied to non-zero
offset fragments, since such fragments do not contain this information.
This means that these rules can possibly match fragments of packets
for which they were not intended.
Etc... Take your pick.
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: boot floppy banner
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:26:55 GMT."
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> > > > Which things do they complexify, and how? I'm not really attached to
> > > > the way that the current "extras" stuff works; if there is a more
> > > > ELF-friendly way to do it, then I'm all ears.
> > >
> > > Mostly "knowing where it's safe to load a second stage ELF-based a.out
> > > booter below 1M".
> >
> > How does this complexify the extras loading? The "extras" rock up as
> > more ELF segments, which the a.out booter can ignore. If we have ELF
> > as a reality for 3.0, I'll abandon any formal attempt to get the
> > "extras" stuff into the a.out kernel. The patches can remain for
> > people that want/need them, but I don't see them having any real
> > utility.
>
> Well, they are already in the a,out kernel, right? Where do they get
> loaded so that I won't step on them?
I'm not sure what you mean by "already in the kernel". The code's not
committed, no. If you mean "where are they loaded", they're tacked on
after the data segment, before the symbol table. There's another
member in the bootinfo struct that's set to point to them if they're
there, and the end of the kernel (first free page) is adjusted to avoid
them.
In the kzip case, they're actually loaded after the kzipped kernel
image, then relocated to after the kernel itself at startup. Kzipped
kernel's can't have extra symbol data, so that works OK.
> > Of course, once you have written this a.out loader, you will have been
> > sucked into writing the third-stage bootstrap I've been whining about
> > for ages. Then the "extras" loading moves there anyway, size stops
> > being an issue, and you can handle both kernel types.
>
> Well, not really. I technically wouldn't have to write a third stage
> for an ELF kernel, at least for it to work.
If you didn't, I think someone else would.
> > I'm still not entirely convinced of this. Certainly we need more code
> > in real mode, but whether that should be the third-stage boot or kernel
> > startup I'm not sure.
>
> Either one works, but the problem is that if there is only a third stage
> booter for a.out and not for ELF (the initially simplest picture), then
> if the kernel goes protected, it saves a lot of work on a third stage
> ELF loader to get a minimal implementation.
I think you'd find that the effort of adding the ELF loader to the
third stage would be less than the effort required to run the kernel
startup in real mode. YMMV, I am just conjecturing here.
> > If you want to make a serious stab at a new bootloader for FreeBSD,
> > *this* is the one you want. It's a really nice piece of work, but
> > removing it from the NetBSD kernel to allow it to be built on its own
> > is something akin to ripping the living heart out of a rhinoceros
> > using a dental probe.
>
> Heh. "This won't hurt... ...there".
That sounds like an undertaking. My advice; either rewrite their
Makefiles or port the NetBSD make first.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:26:32 1998
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Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:25:30 +1100 (EST)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:25:29 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <199802101701.PAA11416@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> #define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan)
> // I wanted to do a bit more with logrotate than just rotate to .0, .1 etc.
> // I'd like it to accept a strftime(3) format for the extension, along the
> // lines of e.g. 'date +%h'. Would you like to look into adding this facility?
>
> Just occurred to me:
>
> What should happen if somebody specifies a date format that have a limit
> on count and a count bigger than this limit ? For example, %h and a
> count of 20.
They shoot themselves in the foot, and should have specified %Y-%h.
> Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old
> logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file
> date for this.
In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and
calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime.
In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named
files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being
calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to
keep the files.
> Also, strftime needs a date as an argument. Which date would I feed
> into logrotate ?
Date has a nifty '-v' feature which lets you specify 'now - 1 day' or
such. Check date(1) for details.
> You don't have this problem in the script for wtmp rotating because
> 1) it does not delete old files, just overwrites them
> 2) it's always called at the first day of the month, so "yesterday"
> is the reference month.
>
> Maybe it's better not add such a feature in logrotate, and leave only
> numeric extensions. (This does not mean I've changed my mind about
> newsyslog and logrotate needing to be fully rewritten)
I think it should be possible to specify the number of days/weeks/months to
keep files.
Of course, since the .0, .1 rotation method is used so much, it logrotate
should be able to handle that, too.
How does that sound?
Danny
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:35:33 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:35:16 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802101932.LAA02216@bubba.whistle.com> from "Archie Cobbs" at Feb 10, 98 11:32:30 am
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This isn't rocket science any more...
In some mail from Archie Cobbs, sie said:
>
> [ private email re short term fix to ipfw code, copying to hackers... ]
>
> Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is
> that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether
> a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a
> non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information
> (ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw
> are supposed to be.
>
> Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first
> fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that
> zero-offset fragment?
That might be nice, but you need to keep a history of fragments for
that to work.
> Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that
> the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset
> fragments?
No, it means they're not matching fragments inparticular.
> As a side note: in any case, we need to modify check_ipfw_struct()
> to disallow any rules which (a) have port ranges or TCP flags, and
> (b) have the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag set. Such rules simply don't make sense.
Yup.
> But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag?
> Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments?
No, it means you don't care about whether or not it is fragmented.
> PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus
> everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset
> fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided.
Huh ?
> Now the question is.. which exception to make?
>
> #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags
> to non-zero offset fragments.
Correct.
> #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing
> the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag
> restrictions.
Wrong.
Darren
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:46:20 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802102245.OAA05680@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802102235.OAA00832@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 11, 98 09:35:16 am"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Cc: nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Darren Reed writes:
> > Does the fact that the rule does not specify IP_FW_F_FRAG mean that
> > the sysadmin did not intend this rule to apply to non-zero offset
> > fragments?
>
> No, it means they're not matching fragments inparticular.
Right- this make the most sense I think. No IP_FW_F_FRAG means it's
a "don't care".
> > But what is the semantics of NOT specifying the IP_FW_F_FRAG flag?
> > Does this mean the rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments?
>
> No, it means you don't care about whether or not it is fragmented.
Right.
> > PROBABLY NOT -- this would be different, unexpected behavoir. Plus
> > everybody's firewalls would suddenly start leaking non-zero offset
> > fragments, which would be harmless but silly. OK, let this be decided.
>
> Huh ?
What I meant was that the answer to the question ``Does this mean the
rule ONLY applies to zero-offset fragments?'' is probably NOT. Because
if we change the behavior to do this, suddenly a bunch of rules will
change their semantics (ignore my confusing example).
> > Now the question is.. which exception to make?
> >
> > #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags
> > to non-zero offset fragments.
>
> Correct.
OK with me -- as long as everyone realized that this is going to change
the current behavior.
> > #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing
> > the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag
> > restrictions.
>
> Wrong.
That's what we currently do.
Whether #1 or #2 -- the important thing is to document it.
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 14:50:13 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802102248.OAA05691@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <199802101251.EAA24958@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Feb 10, 98 04:51:40 am"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ru@ucb.crimea.ua, root@bmccane.maxbaud.net, brian@Awfulhak.org,
ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Amancio Hasty writes:
> I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature
> of crypto...
True... though it's not available for export out of the U.S.
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 15:00:25 1998
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Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:00:02 +1100 (EST)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:59:59 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980211083951.294I@panda.hilink.com.au>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, I wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> > Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old
> > logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file
> > date for this.
>
> In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and
> calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime.
> In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named
> files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being
> calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to
> keep the files.
The other possibility is to take expiretime = now - expiryseconds, and
strftime(3) using expiretime to contruct the name of the file to delete.
Try for both plain and .gz forms.
Danny
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 15:10:29 1998
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), ru@ucb.crimea.ua,
root@bmccane.maxbaud.net, brian@Awfulhak.org, ulf@Alameda.net,
hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:48:55 PST."
<199802102248.OAA05691@bubba.whistle.com>
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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True we in the US can not export the technology however SKIP is available
outside the US .
Cheers,
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 17:54:10 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:56:08 PST." <199802100356.TAA06845@dingo.cdrom.com>
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> I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
> strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
> data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
> similar.)
All one filesystem? Multiple systems?
Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10
(or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an
honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape. Plus multiple
drives gives you redundancy in hardware and parallel backup for more
speed.
The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a
600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution
for you.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802110157.XAA18233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.980211095602.294J-100000@panda.hilink.com.au> from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Feb 11, 98 09:59:59 am"
To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:57:22 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Daniel O'Callaghan)
// On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, I wrote:
Talking to yourself already ? :)
// > On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
//
// > > Worst, how would I know from the format how to "walk" through the old
// > > logs and select the older one to delete ? I cannot believe in the file
// > > date for this.
// >
// > In my bourne shell version, I say 'daily' 'weekly' 'monthly' and
// > calculate the number of days to keep the logs, based on find(1) and mtime.
// > In a perl version, it walks the directory looking for similarly named
// > files, and stat(2)s them, looking for files X seconds old, X being
// > calculated from the number of seconds in a day, and the number of days to
// > keep the files.
As I said before, I don't like the idea of logrotate messing with file
dates to find the file cicle. I'd like to play just on names.
// The other possibility is to take expiretime = now - expiryseconds, and
// strftime(3) using expiretime to contruct the name of the file to delete.
// Try for both plain and .gz forms.
expiretime ?
I'm talking about logrotate, not newsyslog. And haven't we already
finished the discussion that newsyslog should not do cron's job ?
IMHO, logrotate should not be aware of time, at all. If we find some
way to give strftime() style names, without having to mess with current
or file time, maybe it could be used. But I think this is not possible.
BTW: -stable cron does not yet has an option to retry running something
it should have run but it could not (for any reason, like machine powered
off). I don't know if -current already does this, but even if it doesn't,
I think of it as a good idea (hint, hint :) ). This would break an option
for using fixed time differences in name generation.
Jonny
PS: I am all against using time references, and we all know you are in
favor of it. Maybe it's time to listen somebody else.
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:01:45 1998
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802110301.BAA19294@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
In-Reply-To: <199802102235.OAA00832@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 11, 98 09:35:16 am"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:01:11 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: archie@whistle.com, nash@Mcs.Net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Darren Reed)
// > Something just bugs me about this whole thing. The bottom line is
// > that you simply can't tell, given the available information, whether
// > a rule that specifies port ranges and/or TCP flags should match a
// > non-zero offset fragment. And even if you had the available information
// > (ie, the first fragment), it's still unclear what the semantics of ipfw
// > are supposed to be.
// >
// > Does the sysadmin want us to correlate the fragment with the first
// > fragment of that packet, then apply the rule iff it matches that
// > zero-offset fragment?
//
// That might be nice, but you need to keep a history of fragments for
// that to work.
Or you activate a still-to-be-released-by-some-good-soul sysctl meant
to force reassembly of every incoming packet before passing through
the firewall, which is my ONLY connection to the internet, so there
could not be any chance of packets taking different routes to the
destination. :)
After all why would somebody want an alternative route bypassing a
firewall ? If, in any case, somebody does this, just leave the
sysctl at it's default value.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:13:34 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:12:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Alex Nash <nash@mcs.net>
Subject: Re: ipfw logs ports for fragments
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au
cc: archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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On 11 Feb, Darren Reed wrote:
>> Now the question is.. which exception to make?
>>
>> #1 Don't even TRY to match rules containing port ranges and/or flags
>> to non-zero offset fragments.
>
> Correct.
>
>> #2 Match port range/flag rules to non-zero offset fragments by testing
>> the rule AS IF it did not contain the port range and/or flag
>> restrictions.
>
> Wrong.
I think Darren and I are in agreement on this. The patches below
modify ipfw to:
- Not match fragmented packets (where offset != 0) if the rule
specifies a port and/or TCP flags
- Match fragmented packets (where offset != 0) if the rule does
not specify a port and/or TCP flags
Naturally, the standard source, dest, protocol, interface, etc. fields
must also match in the above cases.
Alex
Index: ip_fw.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.c,v
retrieving revision 1.77
diff -c -r1.77 ip_fw.c
*** ip_fw.c 1998/02/09 06:10:10 1.77
--- ip_fw.c 1998/02/11 02:58:35
***************
*** 459,466 ****
if (offset == 1) /* cf. RFC 1858 */
goto bogusfrag;
! if (offset != 0) /* Flags, ports aren't valid */
break;
PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14);
tcp = (struct tcphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl);
if (f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf && !tcpflg_match(tcp, f))
--- 459,476 ----
if (offset == 1) /* cf. RFC 1858 */
goto bogusfrag;
! if (offset != 0) {
! /*
! * TCP flags and ports aren't available in this
! * packet -- if this rule specified either one,
! * we consider the rule a non-match.
! */
! if (f->fw_nports != 0 ||
! f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf)
! continue;
!
break;
+ }
PULLUP_TO(hlen + 14);
tcp = (struct tcphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl);
if (f->fw_tcpf != f->fw_tcpnf && !tcpflg_match(tcp, f))
***************
*** 474,481 ****
{
struct udphdr *udp;
! if (offset != 0) /* Ports aren't valid */
break;
PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4);
udp = (struct udphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl);
src_port = ntohs(udp->uh_sport);
--- 484,500 ----
{
struct udphdr *udp;
! if (offset != 0) {
! /*
! * Port specification is unavailable -- if this
! * rule specifies a port, we consider the rule
! * a non-match.
! */
! if (f->fw_nports != 0)
! continue;
!
break;
+ }
PULLUP_TO(hlen + 4);
udp = (struct udphdr *) ((u_long *)ip + ip->ip_hl);
src_port = ntohs(udp->uh_sport);
***************
*** 866,871 ****
--- 885,903 ----
(frwl->fw_dst.s_addr & (~frwl->fw_dmsk.s_addr))) {
dprintf(("%s rule never matches\n", err_prefix));
return(NULL);
+ }
+
+ if ((frwl->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_FRAG) &&
+ (frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_UDP || frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_TCP)) {
+ if (frwl->fw_nports) {
+ dprintf(("%s cannot mix 'frag' and ports\n", err_prefix));
+ return(NULL);
+ }
+ if (frwl->fw_prot == IPPROTO_TCP &&
+ frwl->fw_tcpf != frwl->fw_tcpnf) {
+ dprintf(("%s cannot mix 'frag' with TCP flags\n", err_prefix));
+ return(NULL);
+ }
}
/* Check command specific stuff */
Index: ipfw.8
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.8,v
retrieving revision 1.37
diff -c -r1.37 ipfw.8
*** ipfw.8 1998/01/07 02:23:03 1.37
--- ipfw.8 1998/02/11 02:57:41
***************
*** 289,294 ****
--- 289,300 ----
.Pa /usr/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h )
ports.
.Pp
+ Fragmented packets which have a non-zero offset (i.e. not the first
+ fragment) will never match a rule which has one or more port
+ specifications. See the
+ .Ar frag
+ option for details on matching fragmented packets.
+ .Pp
Rules can apply to packets when they are incoming, or outgoing, or both.
The
.Ar in
***************
*** 360,365 ****
--- 366,375 ----
.It frag
Matches if the packet is a fragment and this is not the first fragment
of the datagram.
+ .Ar frag
+ may not be used in conjunction with either
+ .Ar tcpflags
+ or TCP/UDP port specifications.
.It in
Matches if this packet was on the way in.
.It out
***************
*** 399,404 ****
--- 409,420 ----
.Ar urg .
The absence of a particular flag may be denoted
with a ``!''.
+ A rule which contains a
+ .Ar tcpflags
+ specification can never match a fragmented packet which has
+ a non-zero offset. See the
+ .Ar frag
+ option for details on matching fragmented packets.
.It icmptypes Ar types
Matches if the ICMP type is in the list
.Ar types .
Index: ipfw.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c,v
retrieving revision 1.53
diff -c -r1.53 ipfw.c
*** ipfw.c 1998/01/08 03:03:50 1.53
--- ipfw.c 1998/02/11 02:57:54
***************
*** 1108,1113 ****
--- 1108,1122 ----
} else if ((rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_OIFACE) && (rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_IN))
show_usage("can't check xmit interface of incoming packets");
+ /* frag may not be used in conjunction with ports or TCP flags */
+ if (rule.fw_flg & IP_FW_F_FRAG) {
+ if (rule.fw_tcpf || rule.fw_tcpnf)
+ errx(EX_USAGE, "can't mix 'frag' and tcpflags");
+
+ if (rule.fw_nports)
+ errx(EX_USAGE, "can't mix 'frag' and port specifications");
+ }
+
if (!do_quiet)
show_ipfw(&rule, 10, 10);
i = setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_IP, IP_FW_ADD, &rule, sizeof rule);
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 19:18:26 1998
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From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>
Message-Id: <199802110317.VAA06062@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Soundblaster 16 4.16 configuration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980210230426.261A-100000@thelab.hub.org> from The Hermit Hacker at "Feb 10, 98 11:05:45 pm"
To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:17:33 -0600 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@#
X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction
X-Republican: The best kind!!!
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In reply:
> Found it. After further investigations (and finding pnpinfo), we
> determined that altho the kernel was configured for sb0 on IRQ 10, the
> card itself was "stuck" on IRQ 5, so it was conflicting with my modem...
> moved the modem to IRQ7, and now it works...
>
> Sorry for bothering... :(
you should either add the conflicts keyword to the lpt and sio
devices, or move the sio to another irq.
jim
--
All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 10 21:41:32 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:40:21 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
cc: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: logrotate, a proposal
In-Reply-To: <199802110157.XAA18233@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
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On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote:
> PS: I am all against using time references, and we all know you are in
> favor of it. Maybe it's time to listen somebody else.
Fine. I'm all for comments from others. My preference is to handle
dated files *and* current-style generation files.
Danny
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 00:11:26 1998
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From: Damon Permezel <dap@damon.com>
Message-Id: <199802110753.BAA01085@damon.com>
Subject: SHMMAXPGS
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:53:26 -0600 (CST)
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On my behalf, Java (XShm) is attempting to shmat several 3Meg chunks of memory.
I can get at most one (well, I get zero, but that is another problem).
This appears to be due to:
i386/include/vmparam.h:#ifndef SHMMAXPGS
i386/include/vmparam.h:#define SHMMAXPGS 1024 /* XXX until we have more kmap space */
It has said this ever since 2.1.6 (as far back as I looked)
When will we have more kmap space?
Where did it go?
When did they come from?
Is this limitation still relevant?
Can I just up this? What is the max? XX% of swap?
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:00:22 1998
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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Robert Nordier <rnordier@iafrica.com>, freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe
References: <22626.887193433@time.cdrom.com>
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 11 Feb 1998 13:59:28 +0100
In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:37:13 -0800"
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"Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com> writes:
> > o Agree on a structured text file format, and include a file
> > on the CD-ROM which setup.exe can parse, in order to construct
> > its menus
> That'd be nice for sysinstall too, but it's probably a bit late in
> the game to go for such an aggressive redesign.
[moving this to hackers for obvious reasons]
Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was
taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite?
I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and
have an idea or two about a new installation tool.
--
* Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:51:48 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:51:36 +0600 (NS)
From: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
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Hello!
I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
It should write 4 Gig on one
DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
on near 1 Gig.
The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack.
Is this the only way to make it work?
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 05:58:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:59:13 +0600 (NS)
From: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
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I am very sorry but mistake was made when i wrote previous message:
All this happened with Sony SDT-7000 (not SDT-1700).
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 06:13:25 1998
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Message-Id: <199802111404.PAA25927@sos.freebsd.dk>
Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe
In-Reply-To: <xzplnvithzj.fsf@hrotti.ifi.uio.no> from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Feb 11, 98 01:59:28 pm"
To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:04:42 +0100 (MET)
Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rnordier@iafrica.com, freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
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In reply to Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav who wrote:
> Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was
> taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite?
> I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and
> have an idea or two about a new installation tool.
Hurry Jordan, a VOLOUNTEER!!!!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 07:11:10 1998
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To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav)
cc: Robert Nordier <rnordier@iafrica.com>, freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe
In-reply-to: Your message of "11 Feb 1998 13:59:28 +0100."
<xzplnvithzj.fsf@hrotti.ifi.uio.no>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:08:26 -0800
Message-ID: <23248.887209706@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> Shoot me for not paying attention, but what, if any, decision was
> taken concerning sysinstall? Is somebody already working on a rewrite?
Beats me, is someone? :-)
> I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and
> have an idea or two about a new installation tool.
Let me know what you come up with, by all means.
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:10:14 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:08:30 -0500 (EST)
From: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
To: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211194325.22941B-100000@iclub.nsu.ru>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> It should write 4 Gig on one
> DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> on near 1 Gig.
4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape?
-john
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:37:41 1998
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Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST)
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> I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature
> of crypto...
Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
-current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
cracks.
> Cheers,
> Amancio
ja.
--
Joe Ammond jra@colltech.com
I Believe / SM & VK
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 09:50:58 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:57:53 CST."
<199802110057.SAA05174@nospam.hiwaay.net>
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:01 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
> > strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
> > data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> > unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
> > similar.)
>
> All one filesystem? Multiple systems?
Multiple systems.
> Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10
> (or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an
> honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape.
I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an
EXB8505-based changer?
> Plus multiple
> drives gives you redundancy in hardware and parallel backup for more
> speed.
I appreciate this. The big downside with multiple drives is feeding
the rotten things, and the slightly more grubby software involved.
> The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a
> 600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution
> for you.
Not unless there's a changer that behaves enough like a tape drive, no.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:07:43 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:30 -0800
Message-ID: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Translated, that says that hub.freebsd.org AKA mail.freebsd.org is no
longer offering FTP services. Nobody has really "owned" FTP services
here at FreeBSD.org for awhile and the end result is that nobody
bothered to move it when catfish was finally retasked, resulting in
the 3rd loss of the FTP area in as many months. The fact that it
wasn't being properly cared for coupled with the fact that it's also
caused a bit of confusion from time to time (freebsd.org sounds just
too close to ftp.freebsd.org) led me to decide not to try and
resurrect the service this time.
This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development"
bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer
maintainers who'd be willing to maintain:
ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
and
ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/
The incoming tree being where people can drop things off for the
maintainers and the development/ tree being a read-only tree admin'd
by them which contains subdirectories for projects like BISDN,
PicoBSD, etc. The maintainer(s) would have to be fairly responsive to
new things in incoming/ since they wouldn't be actually downloadable
immediately after an upload to prevent abuse by WAREZ folks - they'd
have to be manually chmod'd or moved to their proper home under the
development tree.
Any volunteers? This is an *ongoing* responsibility, so please don't
volunteer if you're just idling for a month or two between contracts
and will later have no time at all.
Thanks!
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:09:25 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:10:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Thomas David Rivers <rivers@dignus.com>
Message-Id: <199802111810.NAA08236@lakes.dignus.com>
To: eivind@yes.no, rivers@dignus.com
Subject: Re: DIAGNOSTICS and DEBUG LOGGING (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options)
Cc: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, michaelh@cet.co.jp
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>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 10:59:38AM -0500, Thomas David Rivers wrote:
> > One quick comment - ANSI C reserves names which begin with an
> > underscore followed by a capital letter. It's possible (albeit
> > unlikely) that a future C compiler would warn, or produce errors
> > for these. Just an observation.
>
> Isn't the point that these are in the implementation namespace and reserved
> for operating system use?
Umm... I don't think it's for operating system's use; but for C library
use... a subtle difference; which is likely moot for implementing an
operating system (since you likely won't be using the C library.)
However, some compilers complain about the definition of such macros.
It's simply a pedantic issue - I wouldn't consider it too heavily in
any decisions.
>
> That's why I used them, anyway. Any better suggestions are welcome, of
> course.
>
> Eivind.
>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 10:28:12 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>,
Robert Nordier <rnordier@iafrica.com>, freebsd-hackers@hub.FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: bin/5710: Can't install X from DOS using setup.exe
References: <199802111746.JAA00619@dingo.cdrom.com>
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 11 Feb 1998 19:27:16 +0100
In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:46:36 -0800"
Message-ID: <xzpzpjyro8r.fsf@hrotti.ifi.uio.no>
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Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au> writes:
> > I was planning to have a long hard look at the source tonight, and
> > have an idea or two about a new installation tool.
> Please to be sharing your ideas. I wouldn't get too carried away just
> yet actually implementing it, as there's a lot of water already under
> the bridge on this one and you might as well benefit from that as well.
I can assure you that I have no intention of reinventing the wheel,
the hammer and pre-sliced bread all by myself.
I humbly beg for permission to subscribe to freebsd-install...
--
* Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:08:59 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear.
I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are
normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be
within the physical RAM of the PC.
Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it).
Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical
memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as
it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can
DMA to it.
The questions I have are:
1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available
to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the
physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always
be available to the card.
2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2%
gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+%
very well might be.
-Brian
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To: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 EST."
<199802111908.OAA02578@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:28 -0800
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>This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear.
>
>I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are
>normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be
>within the physical RAM of the PC.
>
>Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it).
>Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical
>memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as
>it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can
>DMA to it.
>
>The questions I have are:
>
>1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available
>to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the
>physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always
>be available to the card.
The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can
also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the
PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the
fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA.
>2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2%
>gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+%
>very well might be.
Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small
number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do
per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's
RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU.
-DG
David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project
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To: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:08:08 EST."
<199802111908.OAA02578@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:27:31 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Just browse the bktr driver -- /sys/pci/brooktree848.c which does
pretty much what you are asking.
The driver "locks down" memory to dump video to and to control the
video processor on the card.
Cheers,
Amancio
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To: dg@root.com
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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>>This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear.
>>
>>I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are
>>normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be
>>within the physical RAM of the PC.
>>
>>Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it).
>>Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical
>>memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as
>>it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can
>>DMA to it.
>>
>>The questions I have are:
>>
>>1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available
>>to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the
>>physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always
>>be available to the card.
>
> The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can
>also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the
>PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the
>fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA.
>
I'll take a peek. The docs I have on the PLX9060 say about the same - that
it shouldn't be too hard to do.
>>2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2%
>>gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+%
>>very well might be.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small
>number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do
>per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's
>RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU.
Lets make sure I'm following you here.... :) There are too many components
labeled 'CPU' to throw it around lightly. What I _think_ you're saying
(I'm starting to sound like a psychiatrist) is that it makes the most sense
to map the card's memory in to the PCI address space, let the on-board CPU
access its (local) RAM, and then copy large chunks across the PCI bus, which
is how the card is manipulated in the current driver.
The "win" I'm going for is to keep the host CPU load to a bare minimum. To
be honest, barring overloading the PCI bus, I could care less about the card's
CPU having to work hard, so long as it has enough time to move the data. So,
to summarize:
Host CPU Board CPU Is it a good thing? (tm)
BUSY DMA'ing Data Driving the UARTs via Its ok. Thats how we do it
local RAM today
Busy Doing other Busy driving UARTs and So long as we don't loose
things,occationally DMAing in to host throughput, this is
moving data in/out of memory optimal to me.
clists/buffers.
Busy moving data Busy moving Data Not what I want.
around around
-Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 11:53:48 1998
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To: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:36:43 EST."
<199802111936.OAA02653@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
Reply-To: dg@root.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:43:52 -0800
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>Lets make sure I'm following you here.... :) There are too many components
>labeled 'CPU' to throw it around lightly. What I _think_ you're saying
>(I'm starting to sound like a psychiatrist) is that it makes the most sense
>to map the card's memory in to the PCI address space, let the on-board CPU
>access its (local) RAM, and then copy large chunks across the PCI bus, which
>is how the card is manipulated in the current driver.
>
>The "win" I'm going for is to keep the host CPU load to a bare minimum. To
>be honest, barring overloading the PCI bus, I could care less about the card's
>CPU having to work hard, so long as it has enough time to move the data. So,
>to summarize:
>
>
>Host CPU Board CPU Is it a good thing? (tm)
>
>BUSY DMA'ing Data Driving the UARTs via Its ok. Thats how we do it
> local RAM today
>
>Busy Doing other Busy driving UARTs and So long as we don't loose
>things,occationally DMAing in to host throughput, this is
>moving data in/out of memory optimal to me.
>clists/buffers.
>
>Busy moving data Busy moving Data Not what I want.
>around around
It takes CPU time to initialize the DMA descriptors and device registers
in order to start a DMA operation. This overhead will be higher than just
copying out the characters to the PCI device directly like you do now if
the number of characters is too small. It's not uncommon to actually use
a hybrid approach with a threshold such that if there are less than n
chars to output, then do it directly to the mapped PCI memory, otherwise
do a DMA to the card. Does this make sense?
-DG
David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:39:05 1998
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From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>
Message-Id: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211120021.2148C-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu> from John Fieber at "Feb 11, 98 12:08:30 pm"
To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:38:15 -0600 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
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In reply:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
>
> > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > on near 1 Gig.
>
> 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape?
good point!
Type Length Capacity
--------------------------------------------------------
DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression
DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression
jim
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:44:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:54 -0600 (CST)
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From: Hal Snyder <hal@vailsys.com>
To: jra@colltech.com
CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com>
(jra@colltech.com)
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
References: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com>
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> From: jra@colltech.com
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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>
> > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature
> > of crypto... [Amancio]
>
> Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> cracks.
I know this doesn't exactly answer the question, but wanted to mention
that we are using Jim Flowers' patch to run SKIP with FreeBSD
2.2.5-RELEASE. We tunnel three RFC-1918 nets over the Internet with
excellent results and plan to add more.
Note that with original SKIP, the source IP addresses of tunneled
packets for such an arrangement will be in RFC-1918 range. This feels
wrong. We program our firewall chokes to drop RFC-1918 coming or
going. John Capo provided a nifty patch to replace the source IP in
tunneled packets with the external IP address of the source
gateway. I've summarized this (crudely) at
http://www.enteract.com/~hal/skip.html
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 12:51:41 1998
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Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:51:20 -0800 (PST)
Cc: mrl@teleport.com (Mostyn Lewis), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Feb 11, 98 02:38:15 pm
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> Type Length Capacity
> --------------------------------------------------------
> DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
> DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
> DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression
> DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
DDS-3 - 125M == 12.0G native, 24.0G using compression
Mostyn
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To: jfieber@indiana.edu, jbryant@unix.tfs.net
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:53:33 -0500
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> ----------
> > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> >
> > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > > on near 1 Gig.
> >
> > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2
> tape?
>
> good point!
>
> Type Length Capacity
> --------------------------------------------------------
> DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
> DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
>
I believe that 90M DDS-2 must be 2.0G native (and HP specified it
in documentation on its DDS-2 drives) while 90M DDS is 1.3G native.
I had opportunity to discover it as failed backup after ICL
changed by warranty a failed DDS-2 drive to DDS drive.
-SB
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:08:26 1998
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From: Vinay Bannai <bannai@best.com>
Message-Id: <199802112107.NAA21942@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-Reply-To: <199802111920.LAA21000@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Feb 11, 98 11:20:28 am"
To: dg@root.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmcgover@cisco.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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According to David Greenman:
> >This question may be somewhat ill formed. Hopefully, I'll make myself clear.
> >
> >I'm looking at taking the Cyclades driver, and moving the I/O buffers that are
> >normally in the on-board RAM of the card, and possibly moving them to be
> >within the physical RAM of the PC.
> >
> >Cyclades supports this to some levels (although they never tried it).
> >Apparently, the big requirement is the ability to lock down the physical
> >memory for the buffers, and then manipulate this memory in such a way as
> >it can be seen by devices on the PCI bus, su that the card's processor can
> >DMA to it.
> >
> >The questions I have are:
> >
> >1 - Does FreeBSD support the ability to map system memory so its available
> >to the PCI bus. Also, what is the proper procedure for determining the
> >physical address of this memory, and locking it in such a way as to always
> >be available to the card.
>
> The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can
> also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the
> PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the
> fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA.
Yup. Most of the PCI chipsets like PLX, let you setup the registers to do
I/O map or memory map for the host to see. This becomes crucial if it is a
intelligent I/O card which needs to mmap a certain section of the host
memory to the locat host on the card.
>
> >2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2%
> >gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+%
> >very well might be.
>
It all depends on the size of the DMA transfers. Setting up the DMA
registers needs PCI bus access. PCI bus access tend to introduce latency
specially when there are multiple bus masters. For small transfers, I
would desist using DMA...
Vinay
--
Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:18:22 1998
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From: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-Reply-To: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com>
References: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com>
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> Translated, that says that hub.freebsd.org AKA mail.freebsd.org is no
> longer offering FTP services.
:(
> This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development"
> bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer
> maintainers who'd be willing to maintain:
>
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
> and
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/
I'm *NOT* volunteering, but would it be possible to have this bits
NFS-mounted on freefall, so that developers can access them w/out an
account on wcarchive? This might ease some of the load, since it
wouldn't require the 'ftp maintainer' to got and get bits all the time,
when the only person *really* interested in them is the developer
interested in the bits.
Besides, I don't want him to have to wade through all the 'warez' I'm
having people download there. (Just kidding, just kidding. :) :) :) :)
Nate
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:26:41 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:25:15 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802112038.OAA01413@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Feb 11, 98 02:38:15 pm
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In some mail from Jim Bryant, sie said:
>
> In reply:
> > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> >
> > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > > on near 1 Gig.
> >
> > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape?
>
> good point!
>
> Type Length Capacity
> --------------------------------------------------------
> DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
> DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
> DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression
> DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression
DDS3 is 12G native, 24G w/ compression.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 13:33:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:54:35 -0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Barclay <dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Subject: RE: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development"
> bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer
> maintainers who'd be willing to maintain:
>
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
> and
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/development/
>
> The incoming tree being where people can drop things off for the
> maintainers and the development/ tree being a read-only tree admin'd
> by them which contains subdirectories for projects like BISDN,
> PicoBSD, etc. The maintainer(s) would have to be fairly responsive to
> new things in incoming/ since they wouldn't be actually downloadable
> immediately after an upload to prevent abuse by WAREZ folks - they'd
> have to be manually chmod'd or moved to their proper home under the
> development tree.
>
> Any volunteers? This is an *ongoing* responsibility, so please don't
> volunteer if you're just idling for a month or two between contracts
> and will later have no time at all.
I would like to an be willing to take this on. If, you deel that a guy doing it
in the evenings (UK time!) would be suitable?
Bar the odd weekend away from home I should be able to keep an eye on things
on a daily basis.
I'm even up to generating an index etc. of incoming/ !
Duncan
---
________________________________________________________________________
Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children,
dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned.
________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 14:22:17 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:18:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
Reply-To: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-Reply-To: <24298.887220450@time.cdrom.com>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development"
> bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer
> maintainers who'd be willing to maintain:
>
> ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop
telling people to upload new ports there...
--
Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never!
tIM...HOEk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:14:14 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:37 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211194325.22941B-100000@iclub.nsu.ru>; from Ustimenko Semen on Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 07:51:36PM +0600
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On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> It should write 4 Gig on one
> DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> on near 1 Gig.
>
> The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack.
> Is this the only way to make it work?
No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost
non-existent.
You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape.
Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and
will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know
dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with
tar, something's seriously wrong.
Don't believe the values given for compression, BTW. 2:1 compression
is about best case. You should get 80% or so more on tape with
compression.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:20:58 1998
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97
To: dg@root.com
cc: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:28 PST."
<199802111920.LAA21000@implode.root.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:05 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> The PCI devices have access to all of the PC's memory via DMA. The CPU can
> also access the PCI device's memory if it is mapped. I'm familiar with the
> PLX 9060 and it's a bit quirky, but not that difficult to setup DMA. See the
> fxp driver for an example of a driver that does PCI DMA.
>
> >2 - Would it really be worthwhile pursuing this endeavor? After all, a 1-2%
> >gain on moving a single character really isn't a big win. However 25+%
> >very well might be.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. DMA will likely be slower when dealing with a small
> number of characters since there is a significant amount of work to do
> per DMA. I would guess that the fastest access would be to map the card's
> RAM via the PCI space and access it directly via the CPU.
Pardon my butting in; Brian, do you have any documentation on how the
Cyclades card actually performs these memory accesses? In particular,
does it just transfer single bytes, or does it only move in larger
quantities?
If the former, definitely stay with using the on-card memory, as that
will be much more efficient. OTOH, if they are moving > 32 bits of
data per DMA cycle you will start to pick up performance there.
(Yes, I've worked with the PLX parts too, although my grounding with
the 9060 is purely based on reading the datasheet.)
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:25:31 1998
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To: jra@colltech.com
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:37:15 CST."
<199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:25:15 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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I don't recollect having any problems compiling SKIP a little while
ago under -current.
Cheers,
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 15:57:18 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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To: freebsd-announce
Subject: New JDK1.1.5 for FreeBSD
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A new release of the JDK for FreeBSD is released. Details are available
at http://www.freebsd.org/java.
New to this release:
* Process.waitFor() bug fixed
* Multicast should work now
* Non-blocking pipes blocked in 2.2.2, and now are (again)
non-blocking. JDB should now work on 2.2.2 again.
Bugs:
* The new release *requires* XFree86 to be installed, even if you don't
plan on using the AWT. This is due to Motif licensing restrictions,
and will be resolved in a future JDK release.
* There is a socket bug lurking that appears to be affecting all of the
FreeBSD releases, but only affect certain people. It appears to be
related to the network load, and only shows up under loaded/lossy
networks.
* There still appear to be bugs in 2.2.2 w/regards to non-blocking
pipes/sockets, which may be related to the above bug. We're working
on it, but wanted to get this release out the door to developers since
the previous version is no longer available on the ftp site due to
hardware problems.
Any other details, check out the WWW page, which will be updated as new
releases and other important news is released.
- The FreeBSD-Java team
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 16:41:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:56:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
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To: freebsd-announce
Subject: New JDK1.1.5 for FreeBSD
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A new release of the JDK for FreeBSD is released. Details are available
at http://www.freebsd.org/java.
New to this release:
* Process.waitFor() bug fixed
* Multicast should work now
* Non-blocking pipes blocked in 2.2.2, and now are (again)
non-blocking. JDB should now work on 2.2.2 again.
Bugs:
* The new release *requires* XFree86 to be installed, even if you don't
plan on using the AWT. This is due to Motif licensing restrictions,
and will be resolved in a future JDK release.
* There is a socket bug lurking that appears to be affecting all of the
FreeBSD releases, but only affect certain people. It appears to be
related to the network load, and only shows up under loaded/lossy
networks.
* There still appear to be bugs in 2.2.2 w/regards to non-blocking
pipes/sockets, which may be related to the above bug. We're working
on it, but wanted to get this release out the door to developers since
the previous version is no longer available on the ftp site due to
hardware problems.
Any other details, check out the WWW page, which will be updated as new
releases and other important news is released.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 16:53:01 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:20:05 PST."
<199802112320.PAA01611@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:01 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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The UARTs they use on the board have a 64 byte buffer. By Cyclades
estimates, about 32 bytes would be available about the time the
firmware would be ready to move the data into whatever buffers
it uses.
And no, Mike, I don't mind you butting in. Thats why I threw this in
the air, to try to get several opinions from several people, and try
to hash out who was right, and why... I figured that after some debate,
a clearer cut answer would come out.
Again, I ask from the perspective that I'm trying to minimize HOST CPU
usage for moving the data, and figured a RAM (buffer) to RAM (clist) copy on
the motherboard would be cheaper/faster for the host than a RAM (buffer) to
RAM (clist) copy over the PCI bus. I'd therefore also expect that the inverse
would be true. But, from most of what I've heard, there should be little
difference at a cost of extra PLX9060 programming (which looks easy on
paper).
-Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:03:34 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:05:15 -0300
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>
Subject: RE: VDO Platforms
Cc: freebsd@SBQ.Org.BR
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>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:49:33
>From: Dixie Clow <DixieC@VDO.net>
>Sender: Dixie Clow <Dixie@dixiec.vdo.net>
>Subject: RE: VDO Platforms
>To: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>
>
>Sorry. Our current version of VDOLive is not available on BSDI, only NT
and Solaris.
>
>--- On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:53:46 -0300 Capriotti
<capriotti@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello.
>>
>>I've heard of your products being availiable for the FreeBSD platform.
>>
>>I'd like to confirm this info, since I have a customer interested on
>>on-demand video using internet-like structure.
>>
>
>-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
>
>-------------------------------------
>Name: Dixie Clow
>VDOnet Corporation
>tel: (408) 871-3541
>fax: (408) 871-3555
>E-mail: Dixie Clow <DixieC@VDO.net>
>Date: 11-02-98
>Time: 4:49:33 PM
>-------------------------------------
>
>
>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:14:04 1998
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From: Jim Bryant <jbryant@unix.tfs.net>
Message-Id: <199802120113.TAA20505@unix.tfs.net>
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
In-Reply-To: <199802112126.NAA24377@hub.freebsd.org> from Darren Reed at "Feb 12, 98 08:25:15 am"
To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:13:21 -0600 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net
X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@#
X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction
X-Republican: The best kind!!!
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Wed Feb 11 00:51:24 CST 1998
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In reply:
> In some mail from Jim Bryant, sie said:
> >
> > In reply:
> > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > > > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > > > on near 1 Gig.
> > >
> > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape?
> >
> > good point!
> >
> > Type Length Capacity
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
> > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
> > DDS-2 - 120M == 4.0G native, 8.0G using compression
> > DDS-3 - 125M == 6.0G native, 12.0G using compression
>
> DDS3 is 12G native, 24G w/ compression.
oops... i WAS unsure about that... neet though, i've got a couple i
haven't even used yet on a couple of HP-9000/829-K420's...
jim
--
All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:23:32 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
In-reply-to: Message from Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:01 PST." <199802111750.JAA00661@dingo.cdrom.com>
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> > All one filesystem? Multiple systems?
>
> Multiple systems.
That makes multiple tape drives a more viable solution.
> > Others have suggested jukebox solutions but you might consider 5 or 10
> > (or 2 or 3) lower cost (than DLT or AIT) Exabyte 8505's which can put an
> > honest 4.8G (or more with compression) on a cheap tape.
>
> I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an
> EXB8505-based changer?
I don't know the price of an Exabyte changer right now, but 8505's are
somewhere between $1000 and $1500 new. There is an 8700 with similar
specs, external only, its top loading, going for about $800 new.
Putting a tape drive on each system might make your users happy, don't
know what the systems are normally doing. Loading a tape in each may be
quite a hassle if all the systems are not close by.
> I appreciate this. The big downside with multiple drives is feeding
> the rotten things, and the slightly more grubby software involved.
Grubby software? Schedule dump with cron. Don't try to bite off more
than a tape per night per tape drive. If somebody forgets to put a tape
in the drive then you'll be emailed. Heck, without the right options
you'll get emailed anyhow.
> > The CD-R people are pushing their hardware for backups too. In volume a
> > 600MB CD-R disk is approaching $1. Don't think that's a viable solution
> > for you.
>
> Not unless there's a changer that behaves enough like a tape drive, no.
Don't think so for FreeBSD but the Mac and PC backup people are pushing
it by supporting it in backup programs such as Retrospect.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 17:26:56 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:24:54 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <C50B6FBA632FD111AF0F0000C0AD71EE413291@dcn71.dcn.att.com> from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at Feb 11, 98 03:53:33 pm
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In some mail from sbabkin@dcn.att.com, sie said:
>
>
> > ----------
> > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > > > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > > > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > > > on near 1 Gig.
> > >
> > > 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2
> > tape?
> >
> > good point!
> >
> > Type Length Capacity
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > DDS - 60M == 1.3G native
> > DDS - 90M == 2.0G native, 4.0G using compression
> >
> I believe that 90M DDS-2 must be 2.0G native (and HP specified it
> in documentation on its DDS-2 drives) while 90M DDS is 1.3G native.
> I had opportunity to discover it as failed backup after ICL
> changed by warranty a failed DDS-2 drive to DDS drive.
No, DDS does give 2.0G for 90m tapes, however, not all DDS drives support
90m tapes.
DDS-2 drives should give 1.3G 60m, 2.0G 90m and 4.0G 120m (without
compression).
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 19:00:52 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802120253.SAA25494@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com> from "jra@colltech.com" at "Feb 11, 98 11:37:15 am"
To: jra@colltech.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:22 -0800 (PST)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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jra@colltech.com writes:
> > I thought SKIP could also do tunneling plus it has the added feature
> > of crypto...
>
> Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> cracks.
Did you try the port? security/skip? It should compile. If not, send
me the output of "make".
Thanks,
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 20:06:31 1998
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To: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:18:01 EST."
<Pine.GSO.3.96.980211171200.5733A-100000@james.hwcn.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:06:00 -0800
Message-ID: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>
> > This, unfortunately, leaves us without a place to stage "development"
> > bits and I therefore would like to call for one or two volunteer
> > maintainers who'd be willing to maintain:
> >
> > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
>
> The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop
> telling people to upload new ports there...
Where should they upload them then? ;-)
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 20:51:15 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:49:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <ac199@hwcn.org>
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To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-Reply-To: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > > ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/
> >
> > The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop
> > telling people to upload new ports there...
>
> Where should they upload them then? ;-)
They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent
record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy
to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making
sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed.
Most ports are pretty small.
--
tIM...HOEk
OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names
hoping that the resultant code will run faster.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 22:21:50 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802120603.XAA03786@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
To: ac199@hwcn.org
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:03:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211234712.197A-100000@localhost> from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Feb 11, 98 11:49:05 pm
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> > > The last will get a little-to-significantly easier when we stop
> > > telling people to upload new ports there...
> >
> > Where should they upload them then? ;-)
>
> They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent
> record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy
> to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making
> sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed.
>
> Most ports are pretty small.
What about ports that aren't small?
Whistle has acapd and ldap both working now. Each required significant
fixes to the user space pthreads.
The acapd required modifications to the SGI/HP/MOSCOW-SPARC-COMPUTING
STL to support non-static mutex initializers.
The threads modifications for per threads exception stack registration
require gcc 2.8.0 to allow STL exception handling work per thread;
otherwise you must #ifdef the code that makes them work out (and then
acapd will not work on FreeBSD). The egcs (Cygnus) compiler is kind
of broken in the way the do thread exception stacks: they require you
to choose at the time you create the compiler, instead of at runtime.
The ldap (which I worked on, along with the minor Pthreads draft 4
support in STL, and a tiny amount on the ioctl and _thread_sys_*
error returns in pthreads) requires significant patches. In effect,
it requires *all* the patches from Critical Angle, Inc., except the
SSL stuff which is non-exportable, and then patches over and above
that because of the Pthreads draft 4 create_thread argument 2 being
a pointer to an attr pointer instead of an attr pointer, as in the
final draft. And additional changes because of some invalid assumptions
about FD_SET/FD_ZERO.
These are *not* 1-2k patches. The stuff Jeremey did on making signal
handling (mostly) work in pthreads, along, is a rather large diff
(though Julian has been committing the changes to pthreads as fast
as they are made, so they wouldn't need rolled in).
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 22:42:17 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:42:06 -0500
From: Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com>
To: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
References: <8570.887256360@time.cdrom.com> <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211234712.197A-100000@localhost>
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On Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 11:49:05PM -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote:
> They should put them in the pr [...]
I agree in the case of small ports, and having said that will
veer off on a tangent.
To make it easier to use shar'd/uuencoded files in PR's, could
something be done to remove the leading whitespace on each line
of PR's on the freebsd-bugs mailing list? It would be easier
if we could pipe the mail through a decoder, without having to
use sed/vi/perl/whatever to eliminate the leading space first.
--
Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com> * Think locally, act globally.
http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 23:18:42 1998
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From: Reinier Bezuidenhout <rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Message-Id: <199802120717.JAA26245@oskar.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Problem with de driver ?
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:16:03 +0200 (SAT)
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Hi ...
I know about the autosense problem with the driver, but seems
to be something totally different.
I have the following setup:
PII/266----------P166---------PII/266
The two PII's have Intel ether express cards while the P166
has two SMC 9332BDT cards.
I am using ttcp to generate data from the one PII to the other.
With the first, second or third try transferring the data the
de0 card on the P166 just goes dead. I can't ping it and
there is nothing in the logs or on the console. The de1 card
is still working fine. I have replaced the P166 with another
P166 and the same thing happens, again de0. I have replaced
de0 with another SMC 9332BDT and the same thing happens.
It doesn't seem to be hardware related. When I do a
ifconfig de0 down and the up again, the card functions
again till the next ttcp transfers. It doesn't matter in which
direction I do the transfer, the de0 dies everytime.
Any ideas ?
Reinier
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 11 23:20:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:21:17 +0600 (NS)
From: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>
To: John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-1700 Tape won't write 4Gig
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211120021.2148C-100000@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212132045.28232B-100000@iclub.nsu.ru>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, John Fieber wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
>
> > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
> > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > on near 1 Gig.
>
> 4G with compression or without? Are you using a DDS-1 or DDS-2 tape?
>
> -john
>
4G without compression.
it was DDS-2 drive and Cassete.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 02:28:08 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:23:05 +0100
From: Wolfram Schneider <wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: FreeBSD mailing list search by message-id
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http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/test/mid.html
is a search interface for the FreeBSD mailinglists. It support only
the mail header keywords 'message-id'
(e.g. <19980210222122030.AAA206@mail-ftp.nordicdms.com>) and the
and the keyword 'in-reply-to' (the answer(s) to a mail, by message id).
Searching with in-reply-to currently does not works in all cases. ;-/
The message-id database is updated hourly.
--
Wolfram Schneider <wosch@freebsd.org> http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 03:05:20 1998
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Message-ID: <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 -0600
From: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
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To: ac199@hwcn.org
CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
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Tim Vanderhoek wrote:
>
> They should put them in the pr so that 1) there is a permanent
> record, 2) incoming doesn't get over-cluttered, 3) they're easy
> to access and the committer doesn't have to worry about making
> sure some silly 2k file in incoming/ is removed.
Yes, putting them in a PR is TRT, but they should be uuencoded
tarballs. All to many times I have had to spend extra time sorting
out snarf-and-barf errors. I would go so far as to say all but the
most trivial of patches should be done this way.
This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or
unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start
any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/
portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs
in one format or the other. IMHO, of course.
Steve
> Most ports are pretty small.
>
> --
> tIM...HOEk
> OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names
> hoping that the resultant code will run faster.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 03:42:04 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: General policy on trademark violations
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0530
From: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
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Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be
surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(.
Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out
portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in
non-games directories?
Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
"violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
from anywhere else in the world?
I think some of these questions have been asked before, but I don't
recall seeing answers.
Thanks,
Koshy
<koshy@india.hp.com> My Personal Opinions.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 04:24:27 1998
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To: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980211234712.197A-100000@localhost> <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net>
Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse
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From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav)
Date: 12 Feb 1998 13:23:59 +0100
In-Reply-To: Steve Price's message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 -0600"
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Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net> writes:
> This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or
> unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start
> any flame wars.
AOL. Unified diffs are shorter and more human-readable. IMHO, of
course :)
--
* Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 *
RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 05:13:13 1998
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Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:
> > Most ports are pretty small.
>
> What about ports that aren't small?
<shrug> Let them be uploaded to incoming/.
--
tIM...HOEk
OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names
hoping that the resultant code will run faster.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 05:31:20 1998
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From: Jamie Bowden <jamie@itribe.net>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, David Kelly wrote:
> > I had considered this. How would this compare cost-wise with an
> > EXB8505-based changer?
>
> I don't know the price of an Exabyte changer right now, but 8505's are
> somewhere between $1000 and $1500 new. There is an 8700 with similar
> specs, external only, its top loading, going for about $800 new.
4mm drives are cheaper and faster, and I have had better reliability with
the media.
--
Jamie Bowden
Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net
If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go.
-Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle)
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 06:54:58 1998
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To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
References: <199802120253.SAA25494@bubba.whistle.com>
From: Chris Shenton <cshenton@it.hq.nasa.gov>
Date: 12 Feb 1998 09:53:58 -0500
In-Reply-To: Archie Cobbs's message of Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:53:22 -0800 (PST)
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Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com> writes:
> Did you try the port? security/skip? It should compile. If not, send
> me the output of "make".
I just built it yesterday from /usr/ports/security/skip on
FreeBSD-2.2.5-STABLE. Building it now on SunOS to test
interoperability. Psyche...
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 07:58:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:58:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>
To: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-Reply-To: <34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net>
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> [Steve says about ports]
>Yes, putting them in a PR is TRT, but they should be uuencoded
>tarballs. All to many times I have had to spend extra time sorting
>out snarf-and-barf errors. I would go so far as to say all but the
>most trivial of patches should be done this way.
I thought people were starting to lean towards shar archives for this sort
of thing. I certainly dig shar archives, but if the people that actually
have to do the work prefer otherwise, I'd like to know (as one of those
folks who occasionally submit port stuff). I guess the same applies for
patches...I didn't know that was even an issue.
Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 08:20:28 1998
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Subject: Summary: SKIP for FreeBSD (was Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably)
In-Reply-To: From jra at "Feb 11, 98 11:37:15 am"
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:58:18 -0600 (CST)
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> Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> cracks.
Well, I usually don't reply to my own posts, but since I did a
bonehead move, I felt I should. TIme to go back to newbie school.
The answer is: look in the ports collection, under security.
ja.
--
Joe Ammond jra@colltech.com
Yn y dechreuad yr oedd y Gair; yr oedd y Gair gyda Duw, a Duw oedd y Gair.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 08:51:05 1998
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From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@dog.farm.org>
Message-Id: <199802121643.IAA08911@dog.farm.org>
To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: byte ordering and talk?
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In article <199802071416.PAA04586@ocean.campus.luth.se> you wrote:
[...]
> > No, the byte order is fixed in the specification (ntohs, nothl anyone).
> > the problem that you are refferning to is either of 2 problems:
> >
> > 1: slightly different struct sockaddr_in structres (some have a 'lenght'
> > field (AIX), others do not (FreeBSD)
> >
> > 2: ntalk/talk there are 2 differnt talk protocols, everyone uses one
> > (can't remember), sun uses the other. (check /etc/inetd.conf and
> > /etc/services, they bind to different ports.)
> Everyone uses ntalk, except for SUN.
> So go install ntalk on the SUN machines, and you'll be fine.
one consequence of talk brokenness in Solaris is that you cannot talk
from Solaris/sparc to Solaris/x86. (the error message is:
[Unable to connect with initiator : Address family not supported by protocol fam
ily (124)]
So, it is a vendor problem not worth to fix in FreeBSD IMHO....
--
To steal from one person is theft. To steal from many is taxation.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:06:47 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:03:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Owens <owensc@enc.edu>
To: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
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Hi all,
I've been researching CMU's Coda filesystem
(see http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/index.html) with hopes of doing an
implementation. This distributed filesystem has some very interesting
properties that should eventually allow the creation of large,
fault-tolerant filespace capable of supporting a vast number of clients.
(ie. AFS, but better in many ways)
I just had a nice chat with Peter Braam, CMU faculty and Coda development
leader, in which he stated the following:
* The FreeBSD port is done (I'm not sure if it's actually downloadable
yet)
* Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on
Linux. Why? His stated reasons:
* Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
(How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
* Several other Linux-based research groups are hacking on Coda,
and RedHat is showing interest
* Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
these extensions:
http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html
Peter was very interested in seeing FreeBSD development continue, but
regretted that he had no programmers to spare on creating similar FreeBSD
kernel extensions. Any reactions to this? I personally think that Coda
could be the greatest thing since sliced bread... we certainly don't want
FreeBSD to miss out. Does the idea of these kernel extensions making
their way into the FreeBSD kernel rub anyone the wrong way? Is there a
better way to go? I know we have a penchant for doing things the
"right" way. :-)
The Coda implementation that I'd like to do would serve a 60 Gig filespace
(eventually two or three times larger) to upwards to 1500 clients
(actually SMB, AFS, and HTTP clients which would connect to N Coda
"clients"). This is far larger than anything anyone has done with Coda to
date, and certainly got Peter's attention. Unfortunately, he thinks that
he's about a year away from being able to reliably work with filespaces of
this magnitude.
So, I'm stuck with a NFS/rdist mess for now (my implementation needs to be
live in summer '98).
I'll stop rambling now... ;-)
---
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu
http://www.enc.edu/~owensc
Network & Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's
Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:27:22 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: jra@colltech.com
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <199802111737.LAA09605@psasolar.psa.pencom.com>
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote:
> Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> cracks.
/usr/ports/security/skip works find for me.
/*
Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life
winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53
*/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:40:10 1998
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From: Marca Registrada <inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu>
To: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980212112548.17150D-100000@itsdsv2.enc.edu>; from Charles Owens on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500
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I'm also extremely interested in using Coda on FreeBSD, and have offered
as much help as I can to Peter Braam, but CMU keeps their students fairly
busy ;), so the amount of actual codework I can put forth is rather
limited. I'm still waiting for the release of the FreeBSD code so I can
least get started playing with it.
The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for
-stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've
heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light
contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the
-stable-patched are unworkable for -current.
Quoting Charles Owens (owensc@enc.edu):
> * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on
> Linux. Why? His stated reasons:
>
> * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
> (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
> it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close
enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come
around, though.
> * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
> will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
> seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
> reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
> these extensions:
From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this
becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of
course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an
filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie:
fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r");
or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a
monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of
the fsck problems Coda currently has.
I'm totally with you on wanting to get Coda going strong on FreeBSD, and
will lend all the free coding time I have.
As an aside, you also mentioned AFS. Has that been progressign at all on
the FreeBSD front? I havn't heard anything but light rustle about AFS.
--
- All we hear is internet gaagaa, internet googoo, internet gaagaa
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 09:48:03 1998
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Message-ID: <19980212124732.01612@mph124.rh.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:47:32 -0500
From: Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com>
To: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Cc: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>,
Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
References: <19980212014206.14255@mph124.rh.psu.edu> <98Feb12.081042pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>
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On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:10:37AM -0800, Bill Fenner wrote:
> Isn't the whitespace only on PR followups? I thought the original
> came through un-indented.
You are correct, of course. Using patches (etc.) in followups
requires stripping spaces; using them in the original PR does not.
Excuse: I was just going to bed when I wrote that. :-)
--
Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com> * Think locally, act globally.
http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349.
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From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@coppe.ufrj.br>
Message-Id: <199802121749.PAA12228@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> from Marca Registrada at "Feb 12, 98 12:39:55 pm"
To: inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu (Marca Registrada)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:49:37 -0200 (EDT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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#define quoting(Marca Registrada)
// > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
// > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
// > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
//
// Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close
// enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come
// around, though.
Turn of async updates in ext2fs, and see if it's still faster. :)
Or, leave it on, and wait til the next system crash.
// > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
// > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
// > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
// > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
// > these extensions:
//
// From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this
// becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of
// course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an
// filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie:
//
// fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r");
// or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a
// monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of
// the fsck problems Coda currently has.
This breaks the directory hierarchy tree rights. One file might have
rights for everybody, but its directory denies access. Maybe the
inodefs is useful if only root or operator have access to it.
Jonny
--
Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br
+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI
PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:01:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:59:33 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Charles Owens <owensc@enc.edu>,
hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: braam@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980212112548.17150D-100000@itsdsv2.enc.edu>
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980212112548.17150D-100000@itsdsv2.enc.edu>; from Charles Owens on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500
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On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 12:03:36PM -0500, Charles Owens wrote:
> * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on
> Linux. Why? His stated reasons:
>
> * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
> (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
> it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
ext2fs support is in 2.2.6, methinks. At least it is in LINT for
RELENG_2_2 (from RELENG_2_2_0_RELEASE and up, actually).
And ext2fs is AFAIK only faster due to the default blocksize and the
fact that they violate a patented Novell technology. (Terry can say
more on this; they either violate DOW-patents or run unsafe; I forget
which...)
> * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
> will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
> seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
> reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
> these extensions:
>
> http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html
>
> Peter was very interested in seeing FreeBSD development continue, but
> regretted that he had no programmers to spare on creating similar FreeBSD
> kernel extensions. Any reactions to this? I personally think that Coda
> could be the greatest thing since sliced bread... we certainly don't want
> FreeBSD to miss out. Does the idea of these kernel extensions making
> their way into the FreeBSD kernel rub anyone the wrong way? Is there a
> better way to go? I know we have a penchant for doing things the
> "right" way. :-)
It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it
has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis
of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the
protection you presently have when
-rwxr-x--- src/
-rwxr-xr-x src/somefile
- somefile will be available to an attacker.
If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I
can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access
methods so that others can.
It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least
not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it
really kill a lot of security assumptions.)
Eivind
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:27:38 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:26:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "David E. Cross" <dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu>
To: Marca Registrada <inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu>
cc: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Marca Registrada wrote:
>
> I'm also extremely interested in using Coda on FreeBSD, and have offered
> as much help as I can to Peter Braam, but CMU keeps their students fairly
> busy ;), so the amount of actual codework I can put forth is rather
> limited. I'm still waiting for the release of the FreeBSD code so I can
> least get started playing with it.
> The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for
> -stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've
> heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light
> contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the
> -stable-patched are unworkable for -current.
gneat :)
>
>
> Quoting Charles Owens (owensc@enc.edu):
> > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on
> > Linux. Why? His stated reasons:
> >
> > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
> > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
> > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
turn on async mounting of FFS in FBSD an recompare.... (ext2fs is async
by default).
> > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
> > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
> > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
> > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
> > these extensions:
>
> From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this
> becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of
> course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an
> filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie:
This is the 'old' way things work, before SUN devloped the vnode idea.
That idea also has made a LFS/JFS based filesystem damn=ed near impossible
to implement (as a friend painfully discovered.)
Anyway, the AFS work is progressing ( unfortunately slowly because of my
recent workload), I am hoping to have more time to work on this soon.
--
David Cross
UNIX Systems Administrator
GE Corporate R&D
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:29:32 1998
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From: Max Euston <meuston@jmrodgers.com>
To: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Modifications to more(1)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:23:40 -0500
Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc.
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Greetings all,
This is my first posting (although I have been lurking for a while).
I am going to fix the following problems with more(1) as my entry dues for
asking questions 8-)
1) The h)elp command displays help, but does not wait before redrawing the
screen (unless you use the -e option).
2) The -# option does not work (it is documented by man in the synopsis,
but not in the body - it is in the usage message).
The code has the comment:
/*
* kludge: more was originally designed to take
* a number after a dash.
*/
this leads me to believe that this option is out-of-date (also it does not
follow the standard). My question is: should I fix the -# option or remove
it (my vote is to remove it - see below).
3) Use the LINES= environment variable (ala vi(1)) to set the screen height
(the Win95 telnet allows you to resize the screen, but I had to 'tic -I'
and reset TERM= for any alterations in screen size (yuck!)).
I checked the PR database and found no similar comments (I will generate a
PR when I have the time to do the fix).
Any comments...
Max
-----
Max Euston <meuston@jmrodgers.com> |(this space for rent until I have
Sysadm, Programmer, etc... | time to make a fancy signature).
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:30:04 1998
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To: Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com>
cc: ac199@hwcn.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>,
Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 98 22:42:06 PST."
<19980212014206.14255@mph124.rh.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:10:37 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com> wrote:
>To make it easier to use shar'd/uuencoded files in PR's, could
>something be done to remove the leading whitespace on each line
>of PR's on the freebsd-bugs mailing list?
Isn't the whitespace only on PR followups? I thought the original
came through un-indented.
Bill
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:39:43 1998
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From: Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
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To: Charles Owens <owensc@enc.edu>
cc: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>,
freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
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Other kernel extensions we have been looking at include PAG support in the
kernel -- please see recent posts on freebsd-afs for some initial
discussion of this.
I, also, have been meeting with Peter :). We had a fairly extensive
discussion of some authentication features yesterday -- I have not looked
at the inode code and as such I have not looked into possible security
problems. As I understand it, the inode behavior is for performance
reasons only, and as such there are presumably alternatives.
I'm leaving for the airport in an our or so, but have a meeting scheduled
with Peter for Wednesday of next week to discuss security concerns in
various areas, including kernel code, kerberos support, and inter-server
communications. My kerberos implementation is essentially complete;
addressing PAG-like issues was the concentration for our last meeting.
Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD,
Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to
distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or
priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you
familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can
have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on
whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having
such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root
did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere,
etc.
This might have uses in other areas also -- for example, it might interact
with management of keys for other services, such as IPsec, where the
kernel knows what authentication group each process is associated with,
and provides keys as appropriate.
It seems like freebsd-afs might be a better location for this discussion,
however -- at least until we figure out what the requirements are?
Robert N Watson
Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/
SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/
robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:51:36 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802121850.LAA15363@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: koshy@india.hp.com (A Joseph Koshy)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:50:56 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> from "A Joseph Koshy" at Feb 12, 98 05:12:16 pm
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> Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be
> surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(.
???????????????????????
What part of the tree is to be damaged?
This is the first I've heard of it happening again since some idiot
decided removing tetris and boggle was easier than fixing the makefiles
and file names like they should have... making it a one line change
and a rename to keep any trademark owner happy.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 10:51:39 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:51:26 -0500
From: Marca Registrada <inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu>
To: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
Mail-Followup-To: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980212112548.17150D-100000@itsdsv2.enc.edu> <19980212185933.22479@follo.net>
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In-Reply-To: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 06:59:33PM +0100
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Quoting Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no):
> It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it
> has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis
> of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the
> protection you presently have when
>
[...]
>
> If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I
> can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access
> methods so that others can.
>
an inodefs is only necessary for a coda server, and only for the
partition on which the distributed files are kept. I would say it shoudl
be made a totally separate fs, accessible via fopen() calls (I'm hoping
Linux-Coda does the same), and of course, the partition containing these
files shoudl be root-accessible only, and as there is no directory
strucutre on such a partition, only unbound inodes, standard unix tools,
such as ls, vi, will have no usability on such a partition, anyway.
In short, it's not that a Coda server needs to access files on the
'standard' filesystem via, inodes, but keeps track of it's internal files
via inodes, and keeps its own internal directory structure, so that namei
only gets in the way.
I should find out if there is a final proposal for how this should look to
the caller.
--
- All we hear is internet gaagaa, internet googoo, internet gaagaa
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:07:12 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212122543.17909V-100000@sasami.jurai.net>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote:
> > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> > cracks.
>
> /usr/ports/security/skip works find for me.
It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled
with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just
tweeked the poor thing all by myself?
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:15:43 1998
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To: Matthew Hunt <mph@pobox.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 98 09:47:32 PST."
<19980212124732.01612@mph124.rh.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:54:27 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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Actually, patch is smart enough to strip off leading spaces. uudecode and
unshar aren't, though.
Bill
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:42:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:40:51 -0500
To: Marca Registrada <inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu>
From: "Kevin P. Neal" <kpneal@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
Cc: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 12:39 PM 2/12/98 -0500, Marca Registrada wrote:
> From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this
>becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface. This of
>course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an
>filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie:
>
>fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r");
> or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a
>monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of
>the fsck problems Coda currently has.
Sorry, I'm out of touch.
Why wouldn't Coda work in FreeBSD as a fs layer sitting above ffs (or whatever)?
Why must Coda have access to the raw inodes? And what fsck problems does
Coda currently have?
Has this even been discussed anywhere?
--
XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing
XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/
XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates:
XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!"
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:47:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:54 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels
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Don't bother with SKIP; only Sun is interested in it. The IETF has a suite
of IP-layer security protocols (under the general name "IPSEC"), for which
there are multiple implementations, some of them free. For instance, there
is Angelos Keromytis OpenBSD implementation (based on a previous
implementations by myself for BSDI and another by myself for linux (yuck!));
I also think there is a FreeBSD implementation of IPSEC out of NRL, but
I may be mistaken.
In any case, using a security protocol just for the tunneling is an overkill.
If all you want to do is tunnel IP packets inside other IP packets, the
code to do that should take about a day to write. If no code is available,
and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has
their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it),
which I believe is just IP-in-IP (same as protocol 4) but I may be mistaken.
If someone can point me to documentation, I'll use it!
/ji
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:48:45 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802121947.MAA19676@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
To: inf@nyef.res.cmu.edu (Marca Registrada)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:47:34 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980212123955.08290@nyef.res.cmu.edu> from "Marca Registrada" at Feb 12, 98 12:39:55 pm
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YES! REAL DEVELOPEMENT AT LAST!
> The current Coda release that I know of for FreeBSD is supposed to be for
> -stable, so my first project may be to port it to -current (although I've
> heard this may be difficult), and it would be easier for me to make light
> contributions from time to time to do whatever is necessary when the
> -stable-patched are unworkable for -current.
This may be difficult. I will provide advice and information on
Poul-Henning Kamp's interface changes, and other issues, as necessary
(the changes somewhat broke Kirk McKusick's intended design, where
the UFS code was to provide directory facilities, and the FFS code
was to provide a linear (but not necessarily externalized) flat
namespace).
The main differences will be in VOP's and locking, and are pretty
trivial (ie: 4.4-Lite2 didn't do much, and neither has anyone since,
barring minor cleanups).
> > * Development, particularly in the area of scalability, is focused on
> > Linux. Why? His stated reasons:
> >
> > * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
> > (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
> > it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
>
> Would anyone think that softupdate's may fix this? I havn't keep close
> enough track of the discussion to know when softupdates may ever come
> around, though.
Linux's ext2fs is apparently faster because it is, by default, mounted
async. As a real FS hacker, he should be aware that an fsck can only
undo one state transition. After ext2fs crashes, the FS after the
fsck is in *a* consistent state, but not *the* consistent state it
would have been had the crash not taken place. For each async call
that takes place, you have another potential state. In general:
For N outstanding operations, there are 2^(N-1) possible
ground states following a one state change by fsck.
This means for 11 outstanding operations, you have less than a 1 in
1000 chance of fsck guessing the right one.
Classic implementations have guaranteed ordering using synchronus
writes of metadata. This is the FFS default mechanism. Other
approaches to ordering guarantees are:
o Log structuring (fragmentation is high)
o Journalling (commits are slow and fragmentation is high)
o Delayed Ordered Writes ("Banker's Algorithm" for graph
reduction sacrifices speed for overcautious safety; also
patent-pending by USL, so not usable)
o Soft Updates (within 5% of async, faster for some things,
and with all the safety of synchronus writes).
So the answers are, in order:
A) There's nothing to fix; ext2fs is being used with a false
sense of safety.
B) Yes. Soft Updates in FreeBSD address the speed issue.
> > * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions that
> > will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
> > seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
> > reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
> > these extensions:
>
> From the latest I heard on the Coda lists, Linus is very against this
> becuase he feels it ruins the consistency of the FS interface.
It doesn't, really. What it *does* do is blow out the inheritance
security model based on directory permissions. The one way to
save it from this is to change the structure of hard links on
disk, and then keep parent pointers in all inodes. Then you traverse
to root creating a path vector, and then traverse down the vector
applying permissions.
FreeBSD doesn't currently support this (about the only FS which does
is NXFS, the NetWare eXtended File System, which I wrote for the
NetWare for UNIX product while I was at Novell).
Without this, if you can get a path on a filesystem, you can open
any inode that you have permissions to the inode, regardless of the
permissions of the intermediate path.
> This of
> course can change at any moment. The current proposal is to make an
> filesystem where inodes can be accessed directly as files.. ie:
>
> fopen("/mnt/__inode_#12345#","r");
> or something similar looking to that. It actually doesn't sound like a
> monster to implement at all. And as a separate filesystem solves many of
> the fsck problems Coda currently has.
I have implemented this at one time, and I have very recently provided
assistance to Adrian Chadd, who has implemented it in -current. The
idea is not new. This is called a "namespace incursion". It places
a "magic" prefix in the namespace. My suggested escape, and the one
I believe Adrian used, is the string ^I^N^O^D^E (8th bit set on all
5 characters), followed by decimal digits for the inode number. You
can use any path onto the FS to get the dev_t. This works for current
working directory, as well.
Probably the correct way to implement this is to use the POSIX
namespace escape, "//". Unfortunately, the FreeBSD namei() code
is broken, such that an escape can not be inherited on a per
path component basis, and applied solely to the terminal path
component. I have patches for this which have not been committed.
Practically, for this specific use, the namespace incursion is
just about as good. You can reach Adrian Chadd at the following
email address:
<adrian@creative.net.au>
> I'm totally with you on wanting to get Coda going strong on FreeBSD, and
> will lend all the free coding time I have.
If you need any architectural information, let me know. I know the
FreeBSD FS code backwards and forwards.
> As an aside, you also mentioned AFS. Has that been progressign at all on
> the FreeBSD front? I havn't heard anything but light rustle about AFS.
AFS was ported to NetBSD. FreeBSD couldn't use the NetBSD implementation
for two reasons:
1) The kernel interface differences between FreeBSD and NetBSD;
namely, the interfaces consumed by FS implementations that
were terminal (bottom end) implementations. Things like
local media filesystems, the NFS client, and the AFS client.
These differences have recently gotten worse. I've been
working upstream to try to reduce the number of interfaces
that are consumed by terminal FS implementations, but it
is slow going trying to get the code committed.
2) The VOP interface difference. Initially, this was just the
mechanism for use of "cookies" in VOP_READDIR (a particularly
ugly soloution to the search restart problem brought on by
the underlying FS exposing the wrong view of the struct direct,
instead of exposing an opaque pointer and a translation VOP).
NetBSD has a slightly different cookie mechanism, but both
are fundamentally broken by design. This leads to a lot of
NFS code working around the breakage, and occasional NFS
problems. The same workarounds are required in most VFS
consumers.
These differences have also recently gotten worse, and in
fact, a number of VOP's necessary to the seperation of
block naming from the imposistion of directory hierarchy
have been removed. Eventually I expect them to come back.
In any case, if it's already working, then you have these workarounds;
if you don't, there are ways around the problems that I can help you
with, if CODA isn't enough of a reason to get it fixed the right way.
Regards,
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:51:55 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:48:40 -0800 (PST)
From: kozmo killah <k0zm0z@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: help with editor?
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
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- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
- ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
- Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets
of paper
- On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of
the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address,
and (c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
KBL
P.O. Box 624-4960
Irvine, CA 92616-4960
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
TLK Enterprises
1439 North Berwick
Indianapolis, IN 46222
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
MEV
PO Box 5153
GREENWICH, CT 06831
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
Pat Owens
309 Teakwood Dr.
Monroe, LA 71203
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS
AMAZING PLAN CAN MAKE YOU $MONEY$
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.
Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your
first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get
a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in
YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to
achieve the STAGGERING results
below.
1st level--your 10 members with
$5...........................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550
Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would
happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of
participants! THINK ABOUT IT!
Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20). You obviously already have an internet
connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing
e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!
About 250,000 new people get online every month, just on
one service alone!
*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******
* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow
the directions accurately.
* Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when
the orders start coming in because:
When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state
that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."
* ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
* Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the
instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!
* ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!
*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******
Here are some guidelines to follow that can better guarantee your
success:
If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of
weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If
you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you
have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because
the system is already working for you, and
the cash will continue to roll in!
THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front
of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK
of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.
If you want to generate more income, send
another batch of e-mails (500,000 or more) and start the whole process
again! There is no limit to the income you will
generate from this business! You can also ask a qualified bulk e-mailer
for tips on what is working the best. Find out if he or
she is participating in the pro
gram.
NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business
name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and
answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free
help
via telephone and free seminars about business taxes.
*******T E S T I M O N I A L S*******
This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the
rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that
it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy
money, with
little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program
exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security.
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving
"junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge
of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work.
Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with
both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I
told you so" on her wh
en the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks
she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received
over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all
figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined
Doris in
her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think
of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even
checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It
definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large
amount of
money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked
this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received
$36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my
mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided
that
the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I
wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I
surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with
orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up
my
mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of
my life
before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where
in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment
with a
faster return.
Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to
contact to
get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I
made more
than $41,000 on the first try!!
D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our
jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest
on our
money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you
do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this
golden
opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET
STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!
*** Get The A.I.A.T Bulk Emailer FREE - Where To Get it ***
*** FAX/CALL +1 212 2082904 (US) or FAX +44 (01772) 492507 (UK) ***
*** Or Download From FireFox Freeware http://209.150.131.246 ***
---Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 6 February 1998 at 18:33:36 -0800, kozmo killah wrote:
>
> [ Nothing legible, just a web page from the Tortilla Industry
> Association ]
>
> PLEASE stop sending this nonsense, or I'll recommend to have you taken
> off the distribution list. Read http://www.lemis.com/email.html for
> how to send mail messages. If you're having so much difficulty that
> you can't even send a mail message, you're obviously going to have to
> solve that problem some other way.
>
> Greg
>
<hr size=1><b>DO YOU YAHOO!?</b><br>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail</a>.<br>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 11:58:12 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:52:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
cc: jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212110511.28143C-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212145210.17909X-100000@sasami.jurai.net>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote:
> It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled
> with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just
> tweeked the poor thing all by myself?
Works for me.
/*
Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life
winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53
*/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:05:54 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802122004.NAA20960@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:04:04 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, braam@cs.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <19980212185933.22479@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Feb 12, 98 06:59:33 pm
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> And ext2fs is AFAIK only faster due to the default blocksize and the
> fact that they violate a patented Novell technology. (Terry can say
> more on this; they either violate DOW-patents or run unsafe; I forget
> which...)
This is false; the only people who use DOW are USL, AFAIK. DOW is
inferior to Soft Updates to the same degree that the Banker's
algorithm is inferior to Warshall's transitive closure algorithm
for concurrency.
I do *NOT* believe Linux is in violation of any patents in ext2fs;
this is my professional opinion, and I'm willing to testify to it
in court, if Linux needed me to do so.
The default setting for ext2fs is to run async, which is provably
(in the mathematical sense) unsafe. At least it's probable to
people who understand math. 8-).
So ext2fs does *run* unsafe. But it's not fair to say that it *is*
unsafe; you can turn on sync, and ext2fs will be as safe as FFS
(by default, FFS sets "doingasyncfree" to "on", which is just as
dangerous as ext2fs's technique; if you turn this off, FFS is
safer, but slower, than ext2fs. Leave it alone, and they are
very comparable).
[ ... good security discussion on flat inode namespaces ... ]
See my other posting. There is already an implementation of this
for FreeBSD. The main answer is "turn this off if you are chrooted".
> If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I
> can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access
> methods so that others can.
One problem here is that the per process root FS being equal to NULL
is considered to be a non-chrooted environment; actually, the
compare should be done against the known real root vp, to see if it's
the same, and the known real root vp should be set: the value of NULL
should not be used to determine "chrootness" (ie: it breaks for
relative paths). This is one of my patches to namei, though it
needs a patch to init's startup, as well, to inherit the original
root vp into the proc struct.
If you don't use chroot in combination with this, it's not a problem;
if you do, well, it's a security bug in FreeBSD's namei() implementation.
> It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least
> not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it
> really kill a lot of security assumptions.)
Technically, this could use the NFS server locking fcntl() which is
used to convert NFS file handles into an open fd. I like this option
better than leaving it out, better than the namespace incursion, but
less than the POSIX namespace escape (I can prove a fixed namei() is
topologically equivalent to a vouchsafe, if necessary, and if you
are willing to withstand topology , group theory, and Clifford
algebra's; most people just take my word for it... ;-)).
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:13:47 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:10:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Snob Art Genre <benedict@echonyc.com>
To: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com>
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What are you talking about?
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, A Joseph Koshy wrote:
> Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be
> surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(.
Ben
"You have your mind on computers, it seems."
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 12:54:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:36:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Charles Owens <owensc@enc.edu>
cc: hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980212112548.17150D-100000@itsdsv2.enc.edu>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Charles Owens wrote:
> * Linux's ext2fs filesystem is much faster than *BSD's ffs
> (How good is FreeBSD's ext2fs support these days? Is
> it in 2.2.6 or must we wait for 3.0?)
If you mount BSD filesystems async, you will get similar speed, and
similar reliability.
Tom
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:11:43 1998
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To: cjs@netbsd.org
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: tail -F patches
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:30:27 +0100
From: "Philippe Charnier" <charnier@xp11.frmug.org>
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Hello,
In the patch you posted:
+ if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL)
+ err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s",
+ fname, strerror(errno));
Err(3) already displays the output of `strerror(errno)', so the following
will suffice:
err(1, "can't reopen %s", fname);
- err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file");
+ err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file");
No need to use err(3) here because errno is nothing but garbage. Use errx(3)
instead.
Have a nice day.
------ ------
Philippe Charnier charnier@{lirmm.fr,xp11.frmug.org,FreeBSD.org}
``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles''
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:32:36 1998
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Received: (qmail 8124 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Feb 1998 21:32:07 +0000 (GMT)
To: ji@research.att.com
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:44:54 -0500 (EST)"
References: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:07 +0100
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> If no code is available,
> and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has
> their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it),
GRE.
> which I believe is just IP-in-IP (same as protocol 4) but I may be mistaken.
> If someone can point me to documentation, I'll use it!
RFC 1702.
Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:56:25 1998
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To: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0530."
<199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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I can't speak for the project, but I did follow the discussions last
time. It's unfortunate that people didn't really get the sense of
the basic principle involved.
> Its sad to see that yet another part of the FreeBSD source tree is to be
> surgically extracted on account of `trademark violations' :(.
Yes, it is. But this is the way that trademarks work.
> Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out
> portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in
> non-games directories?
If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is
a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes.
> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
> base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where
people are missing the point.
If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark
infringement, what courses of action are available?
- Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
expectation of success.
- Give in.
So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that
renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable.
This could be made to work, but it requires developer resources that we
don't have, and so far the components in question haven't seemed to
justify the effort.
> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
> from anywhere else in the world?
Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 13:58:27 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, owensc@enc.edu
Subject: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:17:08 -0500
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> ----------
>
> * Current work is being done to develop Linux kernel extensions
> that
> will allow access to files via raw inodes. This development is
> seen as key to allowing Coda to support large filespaces with
> reasonable performance. See this URL for Peter's notes on
> these extensions:
>
> http://telemann.coda.cs.cmu.edu/maillists/linux-coda/0225.html
>
Probably I don't understand something or understand something
wrong but it does not seem a really big issue for me. As far
as I understood from this article, Coda uses some traditional
filesystem as its lower level ? And it needs this inode access
to speed up the operation ? Then why not just create a special
filesystem that will not contain any data except Coda's and
that will use inode numbers instead of file names ? Or, as
a yet simpler approach, write a user-level library that will
make its own filesystem structure in a plain file (and then it
will be possible to use a disk special file as this plain file) ?
-SB
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:26:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:24:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Curt Sampson <cjs@portal.ca>
To: Philippe Charnier <charnier@xp11.frmug.org>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: tail -F patches
In-Reply-To: <199802121930.UAA01693@xp11.frmug.org>
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You should mention which system you're talking about. In NetBSD's
misc.c, which is from 4.4-lite, err() does not print strerror(errno),
and there is no errx().
cjs
Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/
Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates
Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Philippe Charnier wrote:
> To: cjs@netbsd.org
> Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@bsdi.com
> Subject: Re: tail -F patches
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:30:27 +0100
> From: Philippe Charnier <charnier@xp11.frmug.org>
> X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG
>
> Hello,
>
> In the patch you posted:
> + if ((fp = fopen(fname, "r")) == NULL)
> + err(1, "can't reopen %s: %s",
> + fname, strerror(errno));
>
> Err(3) already displays the output of `strerror(errno)', so the following
> will suffice:
> err(1, "can't reopen %s", fname);
>
> - err(1, "-f option only appropriate for a single file");
> + err(1, "-f and -F options only appropriate for a single file");
>
> No need to use err(3) here because errno is nothing but garbage. Use errx(3)
> instead.
>
> Have a nice day.
> ------ ------
> Philippe Charnier charnier@{lirmm.fr,xp11.frmug.org,FreeBSD.org}
>
> ``a PC not running FreeBSD is like a venusian with no tentacles''
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
>
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:36 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
References: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com>
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On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>
>> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
>> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
>> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
>> base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
>
> It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where
> people are missing the point.
>
> If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark
> infringement, what courses of action are available?
>
> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
> expectation of success.
The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party
assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial
ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion:
> - Give in.
>> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
>> from anywhere else in the world?
>
> Obviously, no.
It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had
to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM
with the stuff on it.
So what's this all about?
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:34:03 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:33:43 -0600 (CST)
From: Alex Nash <nash@Mcs.Net>
To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>, jra@colltech.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212110511.28143C-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote:
> It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled
> with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just
> tweeked the poor thing all by myself?
SKIP uses IP protocol 57 (and IIRC, a couple of UDP ports for key
exchange), perhaps your firewall configuration is blocking these? Try
adding a deny rule which logs all packets just before the final deny rule:
ipfw add 65534 deny log ip from any to any
Alex
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:39:38 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:36 +1030."
<19980213085436.13673@freebie.lemis.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:15 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> >
> >> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
> >> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
> >> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
> >> base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
> >
> > It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where
> > people are missing the point.
> >
> > If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark
> > infringement, what courses of action are available?
> >
> > - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
> > million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
> > litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
> > expectation of success.
>
> The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party
> assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial
> ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion:
Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark law?
Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There
was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark
classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a
number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing
before.
A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence
action without expectations of success. That would be bad business.
> >> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
> >> from anywhere else in the world?
> >
> > Obviously, no.
>
> It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had
> to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM
> with the stuff on it.
Separate incidents.
> So what's this all about?
Hasbro and Boggle. If they were really tenacious, they could probably
claim look-and-feel as well.
How long since *you* played Boggle(tm) on your system?
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:47:10 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:42:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To: Max Euston <meuston@jmrodgers.com>
cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Modifications to more(1)
In-Reply-To: <01BD37B9.6FDEED00.meuston@jmrodgers.com>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Max Euston wrote:
> this leads me to believe that this option is out-of-date (also
> it does not follow the standard). My question is: should I fix
> the -# option or remove it (my vote is to remove it - see
> below).
How long has it been broken? If it was broken in the last
release or two, then probably no-one has noticed and it should
just disappear.
> 3) Use the LINES= environment variable (ala vi(1)) to set the screen height
4) [totally optional :-]. Handle long lines in the extreme
better. If you have a long file with no \n or \r, and more down
to near the end, then press `k' or `b', it will `k' or `b'
v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. Hehe. Good luck! :)
--
Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never!
tIM...HOEk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:48:01 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802122247.PAA02917@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
To: rober+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:47:09 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212133040.1730A-100000@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org> from "Robert Watson" at Feb 12, 98 01:39:09 pm
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> Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD,
> Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to
> distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or
> priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you
> familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can
> have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on
> whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having
> such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root
> did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere,
> etc.
Not the least of which is UNIX NetWare and SMB client filesystems, and
file and directory level security (password protection).
This is a general issue with credentials on UNIX systems, and on
the implementation of connection level authentication instead of
transaction level authentication in general (protocols developed
for single user machines typically do not consider the problem of
how to proxy multiple credentials over a single connection).
A general implementation requires the ability to have the kernel
call back into user space to ask the user questions, like "what is
your SMB password?".
This is, in fact, the job of a "session manager". A session manager
can operate in three modes:
1) Preload.
Credential information is preloaded. The session manager
registers, and accepts and responds to kernel requests for
authentication on behalf of the user.
Preload is typically used on async terminal type connections,
including telnet, where there is no way for the kernel to
establish a covert channel to the user, out of band, to
ask for the credential information.
Preload does not work well for interactive extension. For
example, a mounted SMBFS in the UNIX filespace hierarchy.
For old mounts, the mountpoint traversal uses the preloaded
credentials. For mountpoints not previously traversed, the
information is not available, and the traversal fails for
reasons of non-authentication.
The Windows 95 and Windows NT Workstation "password cache"
is an example of a preload session manager, as is the LANMan
"NET LOG" command.
2) Use interaction.
Credential informormation is only requested when an action
that requires credential information is first attempted.
The programs which make first attempts, like the mount
program, transiently register with the session manager as
an "interactor". They then attempt the action, which
causes the kernel to call back to the session manager,
and the session manager to call bac to the interactor.
Use interaction is typically used where there are formal
events that preceed additional interaction requiring the
credential. The most obvious interactors would be the
mount programs for NetWare and SMB mounts, which would
request the NetWare or SMB credentials from the user at
the time they were executed. The session manager would
cache the information for future reference.
Use interaction does not work well with procedurally
unwrappered events, like mount point traversal or per
file or directory access controls. This is because the
shell built-in "cd" can not function as an interactor,
and neither can the systemcalls chdir(2) and fchdir(2)
function as interactors, so support for legacy programs
is impossible.
The Windows 95 and Windows NT Workstation "Network
Neighborhood" browsing, when descending into a new share
with access controls, *approximates* use interaction
(the session manager prompts you, but it could as easily
be the network browser prompting you).
3) Event interaction.
Event interaction means that, when an OS event occurs that
requires a credential, the session manager requests the
credential from the user on behalf of the kernel via a covert
channel.
Use of a "covert channel" means that the signalling between
the user and the session manager can not be "in band".
For example, a user on a Televideo 925 terminal can not be
contacted via a covert channel. This is because of the fact
that to contact the user will destroy information on the
users screen, and that the user may be unable to recover
the destroyed information because the application may have
been written in such a way as to to not expect to be
interrupted. As a result, the application sstate can not be
recovered. Even if you can suspend the application and
resume it (so that any read it has posted does not interfere
with your session manager's read request), the interaction
is asynchronus, and prone to user confusion.
The most likely candidates for a covert channel are, in order
of ease of implementation:
o An X session manager associated with the xdm process
o A session manager on the console that uses the fact
that the system console memory can be read to save
and restore application state.
o A session manager built into the "screen" program
that can use the "screen" program's virtual terminal
backing store to save and restore state.
o A VMS-style broadcast mecahnism. Like transparent
printing, this requires a finite state automaton
in the tty driver so that the kernel can know that
the terminal is not in the middle of processing an
escape sequence when it triggers. Alternately, all
applications must be written to ensure atomic escape
sequence writes (an unrealistic goal).
Typically, you would combine methods #1 and #3 to provide the user with
a password cache facility, ala Windows 95.
> It seems like freebsd-afs might be a better location for this discussion,
> however -- at least until we figure out what the requirements are?
Take a look at previous SMBFS discussions on the -hackers and -current
lists. This is a well-worn issue. The soloution is well known, but
not implemented. At a minimum. for SMBFS, we need at least #2 and
per user "mounts". For file and directory level passwords, we need at
least #1. A minimal spanning implementation is #1, and a full
implementation could wait until later (if it had to).
You can look at these discussions in the list archive accessible
through www.freebsd.org.
I would suggest a common session manager callback API; basically,
the session manager would select on a session managemement fd, and
when the kernel had requests, the select would come true and the
manager would read from the fd. This would let the session manager
handle things in the forground as well (like an X user clicking about
in its user interface).
I would also suggest that a formal standardization of credential
implementation take place, so that session managers for a given
UNIX credential would configurably be shared and/or share information
with other UNIX credentials (ie: one session manager per credential
OR multiple session managers that share information between them,
such as when one user logs into two X terminals).
I'd be happy to help on a reference implementation, though I don't
really want to bite the bullet on the X requester; my main interest
is for an SMB client FS and file and directory level security.
Regards,
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:48:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
cc: Charles Owens <owensc@enc.edu>,
hackers list FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>, braam@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
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I for one would love to see this feature (if indeed you are talking about
open by inode#). It is highly useful for applications that wish to bypas
limitations of FS name lookup (bypass the overhead that is) and implement
their own faster indexing directly. News is one such application. (Store
article inode# in the overview database and open directly.)
For a big fileserver you aren't likely to have local users that could take
advantage of the security problems you describe, and CODA will be hidning
that information so remote machines won't be able to abuse it either.
Of course if we had Veritas or XFS we would have no need to open by inode#
as they store their metadata in structures that support high speed lookups
by nature.
If you wouldn't mind spending the 15 minutes to implement this
functionality I for one would be most interested in seeing your patches.
Would you be implementing a new open call like say iopen().
Are we even talking about the same thing here? :)
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it
> has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis
> of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the
> protection you presently have when
>
> -rwxr-x--- src/
> -rwxr-xr-x src/somefile
>
> - somefile will be available to an attacker.
>
> If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I
> can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access
> methods so that others can.
>
> It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at least
> not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it
> really kill a lot of security assumptions.)
/*
Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life
winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53
*/
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:35 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 14:36:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 13:54:15 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
>>>> "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
>>>> Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
>>>> base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
>>>
>>> It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where
>>> people are missing the point.
>>>
>>> If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark
>>> infringement, what courses of action are available?
>>>
>>> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
>>> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
>>> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
>>> expectation of success.
>>
>> The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party
>> assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial
>> ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion:
>
> Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark
> law?
Yes. They default to the basic principles behind civil litigation,
one of which is "I have a good chance of success if I can convince you
that you can't win".
> Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There
> was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark
> classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a
> number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing
> before.
No, I missed that.
> A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence
> action without expectations of success. That would be bad business.
I didn't say they would. I just pointed out one reason they might
expect success. It has nothing to do with being in the right.
>>>> Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
>>>> from anywhere else in the world?
>>>
>>> Obviously, no.
>>
>> It's not that obvious. After the USL decision, FreeBSD and BSDI had
>> to stop distributing Net/2. Two year later, Dr. Dobbs did a CD-ROM
>> with the stuff on it.
>
> Separate incidents.
What's separate about it? It was the same code base. For some reason
(probably because they didn't see them as a threat), USL didn't
proceed against Jolitz. I still thought it was risky to release the
CD-ROM.
>> So what's this all about?
>
> Hasbro and Boggle. If they were really tenacious, they could probably
> claim look-and-feel as well.
>
> How long since *you* played Boggle(tm) on your system?
What is it?
Seriously, though, I think that there is an issue here. I'm not
criticizing the FreeBSD project for removing it, but claims of look
and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling
all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English
translation now belongs to a voracious American company.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 14:53:12 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802122252.PAA03177@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:52:45 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 12, 98 01:54:15 pm
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> So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that
> renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable.
>
> This could be made to work, but it requires developer resources that we
> don't have, and so far the components in question haven't seemed to
> justify the effort.
You must change history, in either case. The way to do this is to
edit the file name in the RCS file.
As far as editing vs. deleting: I think it takes as much resource one
way as it does the other.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:00:34 1998
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To: eivind@yes.no, winter@jurai.net
Cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, braam@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:50:28 -0500
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I would be able to use such a mechanism right away, particularly for the
storage side of a multimedia database. If my vote counts at all, I'd
also ask for that 15 minute patch :) 'Twould be wonderful to mount a
partition as an inode-based FS and use it as the storage backend.
- Troy
On Thursday, February 12, 1998 5:48 PM, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
>
> I for one would love to see this feature (if indeed you are talking
about
> open by inode#). It is highly useful for applications that wish to
bypas
> limitations of FS name lookup (bypass the overhead that is) and
implement
> their own faster indexing directly. News is one such application.
(Store
> article inode# in the overview database and open directly.)
>
> For a big fileserver you aren't likely to have local users that could
take
> advantage of the security problems you describe, and CODA will be
hidning
> that information so remote machines won't be able to abuse it either.
>
> Of course if we had Veritas or XFS we would have no need to open by
inode#
> as they store their metadata in structures that support high speed
lookups
> by nature.
>
> If you wouldn't mind spending the 15 minutes to implement this
> functionality I for one would be most interested in seeing your
patches.
>
> Would you be implementing a new open call like say iopen().
>
> Are we even talking about the same thing here? :)
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote:
> > It would take about 15 minutes to create this functionality, and it
> > has been discussed before. It has been decided against on the basis
> > of security. This break chroot() completely, and it break the
> > protection you presently have when
> >
> > -rwxr-x--- src/
> > -rwxr-xr-x src/somefile
> >
> > - somefile will be available to an attacker.
> >
> > If this is what it takes to get Coda, I for one won't use it, but I
> > can probably create and commit a kernel option that give the access
> > methods so that others can.
> >
> > It will not be part of FreeBSD in the default configuration, at
least
> > not if I have any say in the matter. (Sorry to be so brutal, but it
> > really kill a lot of security assumptions.)
> /*
> Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for
life
> winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever
seems to
> http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53
> */
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802122132.WAA20425@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:16 +0100 (MET)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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> and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling
> all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English
> translation now belongs to a voracious American company.
and I have heard in some countries said company uses the national
translation as the product name...
cheers
luigi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:05:51 1998
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To: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:32:16 +0100."
<199802122132.WAA20425@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
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> > and feel are getting too far. Not to mention sound. I'm now calling
> > all the non-door openings on my house "Fenster", because the English
> > translation now belongs to a voracious American company.
>
> and I have heard in some countries said company uses the national
> translation as the product name...
"Fenstern". Sounds like a hormone supplement for chickens.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:20:35 +1030."
<19980213092035.32504@freebie.lemis.com>
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> >>> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
> >>> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
> >>> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
> >>> expectation of success.
> >>
> >> The expectation of success might be that somebody in the small party
> >> assesses the chances of their success (based on their financial
> >> ability) as small, and comes to the conclusion:
> >
> > Are you actually familiar with the basic principles behind trademark
> > law?
>
> Yes. They default to the basic principles behind civil litigation,
> one of which is "I have a good chance of success if I can convince you
> that you can't win".
This doesn't, however, mean that they *don't* have a strong case.
Let's look at this another way:
Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a
trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro?
If the answer is "no", then regardless of how you may _feel_ about the
rightness or wrongness of the case, resistance is not a viable
alternative.
> > Did you read all the way through this thread last time 'round? There
> > was a particularly interesting post which gave the trademark
> > classification groupings of interest here, along with input from a
> > number of people that have clearly been involved in this sort of thing
> > before.
>
> No, I missed that.
It makes for interesting reading. We appear to be in the same
namespace as inflatable cushions and stuffed toys.
> > A trademark litigation profiteer is not going to propose or commence
> > action without expectations of success. That would be bad business.
>
> I didn't say they would. I just pointed out one reason they might
> expect success. It has nothing to do with being in the right.
None of this does. Which is why all this loud moralistic
breast-beating is so pointless. Resistance *is* futile. Let the
Vogons have their silly name and game; we've got better things to do
with our time.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:17:39 1998
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To: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:52:01 EST."
<199802120052.TAA06972@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
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From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> The UARTs they use on the board have a 64 byte buffer. By Cyclades
> estimates, about 32 bytes would be available about the time the
> firmware would be ready to move the data into whatever buffers
> it uses.
Does the firmware buffer in the onboard card memory? How does it use
DMA to the host's memory? Particularly, does it require a separate DMA
setup for every transfer, or can you just give it an address range to
work in and not have to continually reprogram it? (I don't have the
9060 docco to hand here, so I can't check that.)
> Again, I ask from the perspective that I'm trying to minimize HOST CPU
> usage for moving the data, and figured a RAM (buffer) to RAM (clist) copy on
> the motherboard would be cheaper/faster for the host than a RAM (buffer) to
> RAM (clist) copy over the PCI bus. I'd therefore also expect that the inverse
> would be true. But, from most of what I've heard, there should be little
> difference at a cost of extra PLX9060 programming (which looks easy on
> paper).
I think the bottom line is going to be how much administrative overhead
there is in reprogramming the 9060. How many 9060 register accesses
are required per DMA? How many bytes of serial data are transferred
per DMA?
If the first is significantly less than a quarter of the second, then
you have the opportunity to win. Although I think that was probably
already obvious.
> -Brian
>
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 15:55:29 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:53:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Herdman <andrew@whine.com>
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, schilling@fokus.gmd.de
Subject: CRW4260tx with cdrecord
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I just purchased a new Yamaha CRW4260tx and would like to use cdrecord
to write both RW CD's and RO CD's. Problem is i'm getting an odd error.
The drive is probed as a scsi cd and comes up as cd0, i have linked
/dev/rcd0.ctl to /dev/scgx which the instructions seem to indicate.
After doing this, cdrecord is able to access the drive as shown below:
# cdrecord -v dev=1,1,0 speed=2 /usr/iso.img
Cdrecord release 1.5 Copyright (C) 1995-1997 Jvrg Schilling
TOC Type: 1 = CD-ROM
scsidev: '1,1,0'
scsibus: 1 target: 1 lun: 0
Device type : Removable CD-ROM
Version : 2
Response Format: 2
Capabilities :
Vendor_info : 'YAMAHA '
Identifikation : 'CRW4260 '
Revision : '1.0e'
Device seems to be: Generic mmc CD-RW.
Using generic SCSI-3/mmc CD-R driver (mmc_cdr).
Driver flags : SWABAUDIO
Track 01: data 40 Mb
Total size: 46 Mb (04:37.46) = 20810 sectors
track info: 00 1A 01 01 00 00 4F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4
Set Starting to write CD at speed 2 in write mode for single session.
Last chance to quit, starting real write in 1 seconds.
Set Set track info: 00 1A 01 01 00 00 4F 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4 00 00 00 00 00 05 17 B4
Starting new track at sector: 0
cdrecord: Input/output error. write_g1: scsi sendcmd: no error
status: 0x0 (GOOD STATUS)
resid: 63488
write track data: error after 0 bytes
Sense Bytes: 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Writing time: 5.073s
Fixating...
cdrecord: Undefined error: 0. close session: scsi sendcmd: retryable error
status: 0x0 (GOOD STATUS)
Fixating time: 0.004s
Now, this is the error message that the kernel gives me, and it really
concerns me, as I don't see any switches to control data size...
cd0: physio split the request.. cannot proceed
Has anyone ever run into this problem before and found a way to correct it?
I haven't tried CD-R media yet, but the error seems not to be a media
issue.
Thanks
Andrew
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 16:46:23 1998
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From: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
Message-Id: <199802130045.QAA27992@bubba.whistle.com>
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980212110511.28143C-100000@harlie.bfd.com> from "Eric J. Schwertfeger" at "Feb 12, 98 11:06:29 am"
To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Cc: winter@jurai.net, jra@colltech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Eric J. Schwertfeger writes:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 jra@colltech.com wrote:
> > > Has anyone modified the SKIP sources so that the LKM compiles under
> > > -current? I looked at it a while back, but it fell between the
> > > cracks.
> >
> > /usr/ports/security/skip works find for me.
>
> It almost did for me too, but doesn't seem to work on any kernal compiled
> with firewalling. Has anyone else seen this behavior, or have I just
> tweeked the poor thing all by myself?
>
Check out /usr/local/share/doc/skip/README.FreeBSD if you haven't already.
-Archie
___________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 16:52:30 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:00 PST."
<199802122316.PAA04707@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:54 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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I guess I've mis-represented some terminology, so I think we're off on a bit
of a tangent. Let me start over, and hopefully, we'll get on track.
The Cyclades card has (onboard) 1MB+ of RAM, some used for the board's
firmware, and some used as circular queues for sending and receiving data
(about 4K on the transmit side, and 8K on the receive).
These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory
address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done,
the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby
eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board.
The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer
the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would
be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient,
and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board
itself.
As far as programming goes, you merely have to tell the PLX9060 the address
of the buffer, and the size, and the rest is handled by the board.
The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without
affecting throughput to the board.
There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer?
-Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:01:46 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:00:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Archie Cobbs <archie@whistle.com>
cc: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>, jra@colltech.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably
In-Reply-To: <199802130045.QAA27992@bubba.whistle.com>
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While we're on the subject is anyone interested in IPIP tunnel drivers?
I've got a userland IPIP tunnel driver that someone wrote a while back and
submited to -bugs and I cleaned up and added a manpage for. If someone
wants to look at it and commit the port I'd appriciate it.
ftp://ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/iptunnel.* for the port and source.
I've been unable to contact the original author but I'm interpreting his
submission of this code to -bugs as implicit permission to distribute.
This works with Linux IPIP and Ciscos.
Would anyone be interested in a kernel driver?
/*
Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life
winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to
http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53
*/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:06:14 1998
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To: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:51:54 EST."
<199802130051.TAA10455@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:04:39 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> I guess I've mis-represented some terminology, so I think we're off on a bit
> of a tangent. Let me start over, and hopefully, we'll get on track.
No, just not enough data.
> These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory
> address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done,
> the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby
> eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board.
Aha, but what is significant is that once you have set this buffer up
you don't have to again.
> The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer
> the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would
> be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient,
> and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board
> itself.
It will definitely be faster to have the board push to host memory.
> The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without
> affecting throughput to the board.
Yup. If you have the data in main memory, you will have to make sure
that your access techniques allow you to exclude the board interfering
while you play with its control structures.
> There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer?
Yes. If host CPU usage is currently an issue, this will reduce the
overheads to a degree.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:30:23 1998
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From: matthew@netsol.net (netsol,matthew)
To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:05:37 -0800
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As many times as you can if all this data may e modified from minutes ro minutes
matt at Future Lab
----------
From: Mike Smith
Sent: Monday, February 09, 1998 7:56 PM
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategies?
(Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments from
people with experience administering backup strategies for largish
networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.)
I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and backup
strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB of
data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using Amanda or
similar.)
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in
setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as perhaps
being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD project.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:30:35 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: PCI LKM's?
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:00:24 +1030
From: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>
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Hi,
I am trying to convert a static PCI device driver to an LKM, but I can't fiure
out how to probe it.. If its an ISA device I run the probe routine with the
config info, but for a PCI device I don't know how to tell if it is inthe
machine or not after boot time.
I tried looking in /usr/src/sys/pci/* for examples, but pcisupport.c was the
only thing with any LKM stuff and it didn't help :(
Can anyone help me?
(I am running 2.2.5-STABLE)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software |
|http://www.gsoft.com.au |
|The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to|
|choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum |
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 17:38:02 1998
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To: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
cc: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:46 CST."
<34E2D7C6.59E2B600@hiwaay.net>
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:13:45 +0000
From: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
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[.....]
> This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or
> unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start
> any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/
> portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs
> in one format or the other. IMHO, of course.
Does it matter ? Surely, as long as you can "patch <file", file can
be in any format.....
Am I missing something ?
> Steve
--
Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
<http://www.Awfulhak.org>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:30:56 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:44 -0600
From: Steve Price <sprice@HiWAAY.net>
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To: Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
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Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
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Brian Somers wrote:
>
> [.....]
> > This brings up another point, whether diffs should be context or
> > unified. I personally prefer unified diffs but don't want to start
> > any flame wars. The place that documents how to store the diffs/
> > portballs in a PR should also specify (with zero exceptions) diffs
> > in one format or the other. IMHO, of course.
>
> Does it matter ? Surely, as long as you can "patch <file", file can
> be in any format.....
Yes it can be in any format. I happen to prefer unified diffs
because they are easier for me to fix tab->space expansions among
other things. My personal preference only.
> Am I missing something ?
No, I just thought since we are going to change the wording
to submit diffs via send-pr instead of -hackers that if enough
people seemed to prefer uni-diffs over context-diffs that we
should all also change that.
We (I) will accept diffs in any format. I will do my best to
get them all submitted. Human nature dictates that I take the
easiest first and public opinion of FreeBSD makes me take the
hottest first no matter what form/shape they arrive in.
Steve
> --
> Brian <brian@Awfulhak.org>, <brian@FreeBSD.org>, <brian@OpenBSD.org>
> <http://www.Awfulhak.org>
> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:31:47 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: GGI Probs :)
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:34:55 +1030
From: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>
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Hi,
Hmm, well it didn't take long - I found a problem :(
I get the following when I compile :-
ld -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXt -lXext -x -Bshareable -o /ftp/distrib/darius/projects/ggi-0.0.9/lib/libggi/display/dll/X.so visual.o mode.o events.o color.o
ld: internal error: RRS relocs exceed allocation 70
Any ideas why?
(Yes I realise this isn't much info, but if you want more I can send it)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software |
|http://www.gsoft.com.au |
|The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to|
|choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 19:33:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:34:36 -0600
From: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
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To: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>
CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
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Brian Handy wrote:
>
> I thought people were starting to lean towards shar archives for this sort
> of thing. I certainly dig shar archives, but if the people that actually
> have to do the work prefer otherwise, I'd like to know (as one of those
> folks who occasionally submit port stuff). I guess the same applies for
> patches...I didn't know that was even an issue.
It's all about personal preference really. Fortunately I don't
think there are as many ways to submit fixes as there are
committers, but I could be wrong. :)
Bottom line is we would be insane to say that we won't accept
patches/ports except in a particalur form. I was merely suggesting
a form that I happened to be partial for to get a feel for what
other committers thought and to see if there was enough consensus
to document that we prefer a certain form but will take anything
we can get. So as for the form of the fix, six one way and a half
dozen the other.
On the other hand, I do feel very strongly that a limit should be
put on the amount of clear text that can be submitted before it is
required to pass through some form of compression. I don't know
what a reasonable limit might be. I do know my connection and its
associated bandwidth bites and consequently I don't want to have to
spend hours downloading 1Mb of gnats bits everyday.
Steve
> Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:29:24 1998
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To: mike@dingo.cdrom.com
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Mapping phyical memory in to the PCI address range...
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:28:39 -0500
From: Brian McGovern <bmcgover@cisco.com>
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>> These buffers can be moved by reprogramming the PLX9060 to use a memory
>> address on the HOST so long as its visable on the PCI bus. Once this is done,
>> the BOARD's CPU will handle transferring the data to these queues, thereby
>> eliminating the need for the HOST CPU to copy the data from the board.
>
>Aha, but what is significant is that once you have set this buffer up
>you don't have to again.
>
Correct
>> The question at hand was whether it was 'faster' to have the board transfer
>> the data to the HOST's memory, so that a bcopy or b_to_q() call would
>> be moving data from HOST memory to HOST memory, or is the gain insufficient,
>> and its more prudent to have the HOST CPU move the data from the board
>> itself.
>
>It will definitely be faster to have the board push to host memory.
>
Any idea on roughly "how much faster"? I realize this is dependant on a lot of
things, but I'd hate to spend the time doing it if its going to have a minimal
impact.
>> The goal is to reduce the HOST CPU time spent moving data around without
>> affecting throughput to the board.
>
>Yup. If you have the data in main memory, you will have to make sure
>that your access techniques allow you to exclude the board interfering
>while you play with its control structures.
>
The buffers are circular queues, with head and tail pointers. The firmware
on the card is written to avoid overwriting data, so its a matter of just
not updating the RX tail pointer or the TX head pointer until the data the
host is interested in has been moved to its final resting place.
>> There, now that that is said, is the picture any clearer?
>
>Yes. If host CPU usage is currently an issue, this will reduce the
>overheads to a degree.
Well, its not an 'issue' per se. 115200 bps costs about 2-3% of the CPU
on a PPro 200, including the interrupts, ppp, and an ftp client. After a few
ports in operation (since the driver is optimized for the board being flat
out), the usage drops to 1-2% per port. The first number is a hair less than a
16550, and the sio driver doesn't seem to improve with a large number of ports
in operation. Of course, my goal is 0% CPU utilization, but, I have to give
something somewhere... :)
Which brings me back to my initial issue. Whats the best way to allocate
RAM in the kernel (I'm assuming a malloc call), and then lock the memory down,
and determine the PCI address, so I can give it to the card to use?
-Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:37:22 1998
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Subject: GGI Problem..
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Well, I fixed the linking problem with libggi by adding the -r flag to the
link process.. I am not actually sure what effect it has, and I can't test it
since the rest of GGI doesn't exist yet...
Anyone feel like enlightening me? :)
Now for the kernel stuff.. <shudder>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software |
|http://www.gsoft.com.au |
|The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to|
|choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:38:48 1998
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So, I've gotten around my complete inability to even *run* gdb on the
navigator, but now I've got another problem: When I hit a breakpoint
and try to either step or continue, I see:
(gdb) c
Continuing.
Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192
(gdb)
The problem is, the breakpoint is at the same place at which the program
just stopped. The only way to get past this breakpoint is to disable
the breakpoint and continue. Disabling the breakpoing and stepping
doesn't work.
It's getting pretty frustrating, trying to debug a large amount of code
by setting breakpoints at just about every line of a function and
disabling one and then enabling another.
Anyone got an idea what could be causing this? Debugging other programs
works fine. I would imagine that the size of the program and it's
shared libraries is part of the problem, but what can I do to fix it?
Chris
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 20:57:48 1998
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From: cgull+usenet-887345169@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood)
To: "Andrew Atrens" <atrens@nortel.ca>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: pci-ide-dma side effects
In-Reply-To: <199802101859.KAA19606@hub.freebsd.org>
References: <199802101859.KAA19606@hub.freebsd.org>
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Andrew Atrens writes:
> launched X, then ran `Bonnie'.
>
> What happened next is hard to describe. :)
>
> My X screen was filled with (for want of a better description) `marching ants'.
Mmm. Quite.
I don't have much information from your report here. Several
questions:
1) Can I get a full description of your FreeBSD-current variant,
hardware, boot -v log, and copy of your kernel config for this
experiment? And your XF86 startup messages, too, for good measure?
2) If your machine's PCI bus is overclocked (i.e., system bus is at 75
or 83 MHz), try it within manufacturer and PCI specifications.
3) These "marching ants"-- are they transient, or do they leave trails
in your screen buffer when disk activity ceases?
3) What happens if you try this without X?
--jh
--
Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise, John Hood, cgull
intelligent look on the face of the cow." He was @
*so* right. --Ofer Inbar smoke.marlboro.vt.us
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 12 23:38:40 1998
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Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: <199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 12, 98 01:54:15 pm"
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100 (MET)
Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Søren Schmidt <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
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In reply to Mike Smith who wrote:
>
> > Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out
> > portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in
> > non-games directories?
>
> If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is
> a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes.
Well, somethings has to be done yes, but we are not in agreement on
what should be done, that's life.
I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has
been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ?
This is just some lawyers trying to make $$, when it gets clear to
them that there is NONE, they will find other things to persue
pretty quickly.
> > Q2: What about programs, files and directories in the source tree that
> > "violate trademarks" in other countries like India, Japan, and Russia?
> > Will the FreeBSD project be willing be rip out parts of its source
> > base to satisfy litigants from other countries?
>
> It's not a question of "being willing", and this is, I think, where
> people are missing the point.
>
> If the FreeBSD project is faced with litigative action over a trademark
> infringement, what courses of action are available?
>
> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
> million spare to spend on a hopeless case turns up. Trademark
> litigation is rarely started against small parties without some
> expectation of success.
>
> - Give in.
I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation"
with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can
sue for real money. Remember the requests to remove parts of our
sources allways came via WC. If we where just a "free" project
(which we are, but the world doesn't allways see it right), there
would be NO idea in sueing (read NO MONEY to winn).
> > Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
> > from anywhere else in the world?
>
> Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though.
Or you can go to NetBSD and OpenBSD they still have the bits around,
they havn't given in (power to them on that account).
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
Even more code to hack -- will it ever end
..
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:08:39 1998
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Message-ID: <19980213100658.20479@deepo.prosa.dk>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:06:58 +0100
From: Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
To: sthaug@nethelp.no
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels
References: <199802121944.OAA05915@bual.research.att.com> <8122.887319127@verdi.nethelp.no>
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In-Reply-To: <8122.887319127@verdi.nethelp.no>; from sthaug@nethelp.no on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 10:32:07PM +0100
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sthaug@nethelp.no writes:
> > If no code is available,
> > and there is interest, I may hack something up over the weekend. Cisco has
> > their own tunneling protocol (I forget exactly what TLA they use to name it),
>
> GRE.
I believe Linux has support for this (so I heard).
Regarding John's opinion of not bothering with SKIP, well...
Have you anything better in the meantime that's readily available ?
:-)
--
-[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]-
«Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead
IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?»
- S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib)
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:46:29 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:45:51 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk>
cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: IP tunnels
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>
> Regarding John's opinion of not bothering with SKIP, well...
> Have you anything better in the meantime that's readily available ?
Unencrypted, but it works, is ftp.hilink.com.au:/pub/FreeBSD/ipip.tar.gz
Danny
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 01:57:40 1998
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To: Damon Permezel <dap@damon.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SHMMAXPGS
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:53:26 CST."
<199802110753.BAA01085@damon.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:57:22 -0700
From: Dave Andersen <angio@angio.net>
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> This appears to be due to:
> i386/include/vmparam.h:#ifndef SHMMAXPGS
> i386/include/vmparam.h:#define SHMMAXPGS 1024 /* XXX until we have more kmap space */
>
> It has said this ever since 2.1.6 (as far back as I looked)
>
> When will we have more kmap space?
> Where did it go?
> When did they come from?
>
> Is this limitation still relevant?
> Can I just up this? What is the max? XX% of swap?
In your kernel config file:
options "SHMMAXPGS=XXXX"
(At 4k per page, pick a value of XXXX that works for you. I use
powers of two, but it may simply be a religious thing. :-)
I'm not sure why it's not in LINT for earlier versions, but it works
like a charm under modern FreeBSDs.
Dave
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 02:25:49 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:26:34 +0600 (NS)
From: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>
To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980213162358.8500A-100000@iclub.nsu.ru>
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:)
> > It should write 4 Gig on one
> > DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
> > on near 1 Gig.
> >
> > The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack.
> > Is this the only way to make it work?
>
> No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost
> non-existent.
>
> You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape.
> Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and
> will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know
> dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with
> tar, something's seriously wrong.
I wrote simple program, that fwrite to stdout random seeds, and to stderr
- number of written bytes.
Then i redirect output of my program to /dev/rst0, and on near 900Kb,
program failed to fwrite due to i/o error. After i/o error any operations
on /dev/rst0 cause messages from kernel, that it can't write to device.
Else: the Cassete was used more than on 3/4.
I use DDS-2, it shall ( as noticed) write 4G without and 8G with
compression.
>
> Don't believe the values given for compression, BTW. 2:1 compression
> is about best case. You should get 80% or so more on tape with
> compression.
>
> Greg
>
Sorry for bad English.
Thank you
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 02:27:54 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: ipfw and www browser problem
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:36 +0000
From: Chris Stenton <jacs@gnome.co.uk>
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I am running FreeBSD stable; last make world and kernel build was 8th Feb. I
have been having trouble running Web browsers through my firewall for about a
month or so. For some reason when trying to access "certain" web pages I get
the following repeated ipfw error.
Feb 13 10:09:04 hawk /kernel: ipfw: 1900 Deny TCP 204.162.96.20
193.243.228.133 in via ppp0 Fragment = 97
rule 1900 is
01900 deny log tcp from any to any 87 via ppp0
The error message against the rule does not make any sense to me. Why one
particular fragment?
Anyone tell me whats wrong?
Chris
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 03:56:12 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 PST."
<199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:54:36 -0800
Message-ID: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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There's also the fact that the removal of boggle was discussed at
least 2 months ago, when the lawyers *first* raised the issue with us.
There was so much hullabaloo over it that I just threw my arms up in
disgust and dropped the issue entirely - I couldn't find one person
who actually PLAYED the friggin' game, mind you, but lots of folks
were willing to fight to the very last drop of somebody else's blood
over the issue.
Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in
question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for
something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here:
/usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of
lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then
maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it
to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid
antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed
of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the
damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the
attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-)
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 05:49:04 1998
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To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100."
<199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:48:50 -0800
Message-ID: <6842.887377730@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation"
> with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can
> sue for real money. Remember the requests to remove parts of our
Actually, we've never even come close to being sued for money (or even
threatened with such) during any of these instances. In each and
every case, it's been some bored, by-the-book lawyer saying he's
representing client blah-blah's trademark interests and would we
please cease and desist from saying blah-diddy-blah on our FTP site.
They don't want money, they're just playing whack-a-mole here with
"trademark violations" and ftp.cdrom.com is a rather large and obvious
mole to go after on the net, it doesn't exactly take an Einstein to
find us!
Our biggest problem... Heh.. You want to know our "biggest problem?"
It's the "affiliation" with ftp.cdrom.com and the bazillion search
engines out there empowering lawyers like Hasbro's daily in finding
"boggle violations" with a few trivial keystrokes. So now what?
Would you then propose that we vacate our own flagship machine in
order to prevent such problems in the future? Sure, why not, I'll bet
the Linux folks would be more than happy to occupy the space we
currently take up - heck, that'd free an entire 8GB archive slice for
all kinds of new kernels and things! :-) :-)
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 06:30:17 1998
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To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, matthew@netsol.net
Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices & strategie
s?
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:32:01 -0500
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The most I did was 6 systems (3 pairs) and 20G of data :-) The idea
was the following:
there is one backup system. Once a week a full backup is done
manually (in meaning that it's necessary to manually insert tapes,
kick off the backup scripts and check their results for errors,
after that manually put tapes into safe). During the week
this system has a tape with ongoing data. We changed this tape
once a day (manually, with storing all the tapes unused at
the moment in a fireproof safe) by two reasons:
1. In the worst case (like total destruction by fire) we can tolerate
loss of one day of data, but better not more.
2. The tape is big enough (DDS-2 120m) to store all data for one day,
so we don't need to change it more often.
Application explicitly stores the data into a separate hierarchy
of directories (the same as the main one). A particular case of
that is Oracle archived logs. This second hierarchy gets polled,
data transferred as cpio archive to backup server, saved in 2 copies.
The backup servers restores this data into its main directory hierarchy,
after what passes the cpio archive with server ID added to tape server
and initiates removal of backed up data in the backup hierarchy on main
server. After that backup server does any necessary additional
things to newly received data, like applying Oracle archived logs.
The tape servers pours everything it receives into the tape.
The reason for explicit second hierarchy is an attempt to reduce
overhead of searching for new data and reduce the period of polling.
In case when restoration is needed, search the backup log for the
latest occurrence of given file name, get its cpio archive name
and date of copy, take the tape, restore archive from it (mt fsf
is useful with it), and finally restore file from archive.
And there was a like but separate technology for archived data that
has to be stored for several years.
Now I see that they have nothing like in AT&T :-) Although [mostly]
batch
processing of billing data has different requirements than online
operation of a bank.
-SB
> ----------
> From: matthew@netsol.net[SMTP:matthew@netsol.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 8:05 PM
> To: 'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'
> Subject: RE: Large system backups; recommendations for devices &
> strategies?
>
> As many times as you can if all this data may e modified from minutes
> ro minutes
> matt at Future Lab
>
> ----------
> From: Mike Smith
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 1998 7:56 PM
> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Large system backups; recommendations for
> devices & strategies?
>
>
> (Please pardon the crosspost to -isp; I'm looking for comments
> from
> people with experience administering backup strategies for
> largish
> networks, and I suspect some of you lurk there.)
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for both backup devices and
> backup
> strategies for a network of about six systems and perhaps 50GB
> of
> data. Ultimately, I'd like something that can run more or less
> unattended, modulo media changes, etc. (ie. I expect using
> Amanda or
> similar.)
>
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that's been involved in
>
> setting up and/or operating such a backup system, as well as
> perhaps
> being interested in doing something similar for the FreeBSD
> project.
>
> --
> \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
> \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
> \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
> \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe hackers" in the body of the message
>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 06:47:39 1998
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To: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru
Subject: RE: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:49:09 -0500
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> ----------
> From: Ustimenko Semen[SMTP:semen@iclub.nsu.ru]
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
>
> As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:)
>
By the way, I can share some experience from using DDS. As I've
found there are two major manufacturers of DDS drives: Sony and
HP. From others I saw ARCHIVE (?) Viper in ICLs and it is so bad
that it does not deserve any discussion, they can not survive
even 2 weeks of operation.
HP uses OEM Sony drives in their cheap DDS devices designated for
PCs, and own HP drives in RISC servers. The latest are more expensive
(twice?) but a lot better. The problem with Sony drives is that even
with
extensive use of cleaning cartridges at some point (like 150-200
full tape backups, with cleaning after each other backup) they come to
the point when use of cleaning tape in any amount can't stop
the 'need cleaning' light from blinking. Disassembling and cleaning
up them manually helps but only for something like 5 full tape
backups. HP drives have no such problem, they live a lot longer,
and it takes very many backups together with very few cleanings
to kill them (yes, I saw dead one, peoples have used it for half a year
without any cleaning).
-SB
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 07:12:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:11:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Alex Nash <nash@Mcs.Net>
To: Chris Stenton <jacs@gnome.co.uk>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw and www browser problem
In-Reply-To: <199802131027.KAA00814@hawk.gnome.co.uk>
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On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Chris Stenton wrote:
> Feb 13 10:09:04 hawk /kernel: ipfw: 1900 Deny TCP 204.162.96.20
> 193.243.228.133 in via ppp0 Fragment = 97
>
> rule 1900 is
>
> 01900 deny log tcp from any to any 87 via ppp0
>
>
> The error message against the rule does not make any sense to me. Why one
> particular fragment?
Any fragmented packet (except the first fragment) which makes it to this
rule will be stopped due to a bug in ipfw. The problem, put simply, is
that ipfw ignored the port specification because it didn't have the
information in the framgneted packet. Your options are:
- upgrade to the latest -stable or -current
- try and hand merge the fix committed to sys/netinet/ip_fw.c into
your tree
- add a 'frag' rule somewhere before rule 1900, here's an example:
ipfw add 1899 allow ip from any to any frag
Alex
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 07:46:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:45:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Alex Nash <nash@Mcs.Net>
To: Chris Stenton <jacs@gnome.co.uk>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ipfw and www browser problem
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On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Alex Nash wrote:
> Any fragmented packet (except the first fragment) which makes it to this
> rule will be stopped due to a bug in ipfw.
I should clarify that further: Any fragmented packet (except the first
fragment) which is TCP *and* comes in via ppp0 will be denied. Fragmented
UDP packets and fragments coming in over other interfaces will not match.
Alex
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:02:57 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:01:56 -0600
From: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
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To: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
CC: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Limit on PR clear-text size (was Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP)
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Tim Vanderhoek wrote:
>
> 15-20KB, give or take 5, clear-text, seems reasonable to me.
>
> The maximum listed for inclusion in a pr is 65KB (see
> submitters.sgml). I choose that based on previous sizes around
> which I complained. It would be quite reasonable still at
> ~30-40KB. The maximum message size on FreeBSD-list is 100KB.
>
> Lower, higher, or good?
15-20KB sounds good. Granted most will not be this big,
but a good example of one that would have been (had it been
send-pr'd) was Terry's latest batch of patches.
Steve
> --
> Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never!
> tIM...HOEk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:05:10 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:50:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
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Reply-To: Robert Watson <robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: owensc@enc.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote:
> > Our long-term goal is to work with various communities (such as FreeBSD,
> > Linux) to come up with a generalized authentication extension available to
> > distributed file systems (such as AFS, CFS) for associating tokens or
> > priveledges with a set of processes, not just with a UID. Those of you
> > familiar with AFS will know that if you have two incoming telnets, one can
> > have rights to the file system while the other does not, depending on
> > whether you have klog'd or not. There are numerous reasons for having
> > such a service -- for example, it would be nice if daemons running as root
> > did not have access to the same file system as a root shell elsewhere,
> > etc.
>
> Not the least of which is UNIX NetWare and SMB client filesystems, and
> file and directory level security (password protection).
>
>
> This is a general issue with credentials on UNIX systems, and on
> the implementation of connection level authentication instead of
> transaction level authentication in general (protocols developed
> for single user machines typically do not consider the problem of
> how to proxy multiple credentials over a single connection).
>
> A general implementation requires the ability to have the kernel
> call back into user space to ask the user questions, like "what is
> your SMB password?".
> ...
Terry,
Thanks for your response. My thoughts on the issue had been somewhat
limited to a smaller scope -- those services specifically required for
Coda, for example. One issue I have not yet resolved in my mind is how
appropriate use of credentials will be determined. This becomes an issue
in the case of multi-realm Coda (or AFS) -- which credentials do you
present to a realm?
- Multi-realm AFS allows remote realm identities to establish a local
identity for the purpose of being included in local ACLs, etc.
Multi-realm AFS also allows anonymous, unauthenticated access (for
situations where a user does not have a local identity). How does the
credential manager know which identity(ies) to offer? In the case of
Coda/AFS there are some clear possibilities:
1. If you have an identity for realm (x) in your credential cache, provide
that to the remote realm.
2. If you have an identity for another realm (y) but not for the realm
itself, use that identity.
3. If you have no identity, attempt unauthenticated access.
The problem occurs primarily because Authorization requires first
Authentication, so you cannot do much with authorizing anonymous users
(other than treat them as a class, which is allowed in AFS). Cross-realm
tokens in AFS do complicate things. I'd like to try and come up with a
fairly clean general solution to that problem in Coda, and am currently
still in the brain-storming stage (this is especially the case since there
ios no multi-realm Coda as-yet :). The end solution is really to have the
user indicate how any credentials may be used, and have a strictly
followed set of rules for how they can be used. Especially in the case of
SMB/etc it is desirable to avoid sending the wrong credentials to the
wrong place :).
If a general-purpose credential manager is available, the user must be
able to determine how the credentials are used. This is especially true
in the event that a password is provided as a credential (as opposed to a
token or authenticator). I might wish to indicate a credential was for
use with Coda, or for IPsec, etc. This is further complicated by the fact
that Coda and AFS both have a user-land daemon, Venus, which actually
manages the connections. It maintains a pool of RPC bindings for each
authenticated identity (for parallelism). Currently it uses the UID of
the process (provided to Venus by /dev/cfs0) to determine which
credentials to use (and which bindings, if currently available).
In the new arrangement, presumably user-level Venus would (somehow) be
provided access to the credentials associated with the PAG of the
requesting process, but only those credentials provided for use with Coda.
How would one indicate that the Coda-related Venus processes were allowed
to have access to those credentials? Possibly through using a specific
UNIX uid/gid mapping to protect access to /dev/cfs0, and then a mapping to
allow "Coda" credentials to be passed to the Venus userid?
Is the PAG an appropriate mechanism for grouping credentials with
processes? What are the semantics for a PAG? The ones discussed thus far
are similar to process-group semantics in many ways:
- By default, a process is in the PAG of its parent
- A process may choose to create a new PAG, of which only it is initially
a member.
- Any process may adjust the credentials of the current PAG (is this
desirable?), including destruction of all associated credentials.
- PAG is preserved across setuid binary execution, as well as the setuid
syscall
Presumably a source of PAG credentials could be Kerberos, etc. Both the
kernel and user-processes might need access to these credentials. These
processes might or might not be in the PAG of the process requiring the
service.
Examples of interesting processes:
SSH Client -- similar to retrieval of user's private key (storing it in a
credential manager might be more useful than in a file in their home
directory -- especially if they require tokens to get to that file :).
The SSH client would be in the PAG.
Venus -- to access files using the identity of the user, it would require
access to credentials provided specifically for that task, but no other
muck up credential-handling.
IPsec -- as user-to-user authentication is not forbidden by IPsec
semantics, but the kernel provides IPsec services at the protocol level.
As such, the kernel might need access to the user's IPsec credentials.
SMBfs -- this might be implemented as a user-level process (such as
Venus), or as a kernel-level service. In either case, it would have to
match credentials for NT domains, specific servers, etc.
This is just part of the initial hash-through of the issue thus far. I
will go take a look at the back-archives from the smbfs discussion later
today.
Thanks,
Robert N Watson
Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/
SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/
robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:13:11 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:27:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@hwcn.org>
To: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>
cc: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
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On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Steve Price wrote:
> On the other hand, I do feel very strongly that a limit should be
> put on the amount of clear text that can be submitted before it is
> required to pass through some form of compression. I don't know
> what a reasonable limit might be. I do know my connection and its
15-20KB, give or take 5, clear-text, seems reasonable to me.
The maximum listed for inclusion in a pr is 65KB (see
submitters.sgml). I choose that based on previous sizes around
which I complained. It would be quite reasonable still at
~30-40KB. The maximum message size on FreeBSD-list is 100KB.
Lower, higher, or good?
--
Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never!
tIM...HOEk
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 08:50:16 1998
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Message-ID: <19980213171200.09165@vds.linkdesign.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:12:00 +0100
From: Michael Bielicki <michael@linkdesign.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: how to install tk-8.0.2 on current
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Hi Folks,
I can´t seem to be able to install the tk8 port on CURRENT. It allways tries to install tcl 8.0.2.
Is there a patch for the port so it stops doing this and finds the included
tcl stuff in CURRENT ??
Thanks
Michael
--
Michael Bielicki
Buisnetco Telecom. Ltd. Link Design International Ltd.
13 Iras Str., Office 23 65, Cliff Rd, Tramore
Nicosia 1061, Cyprus http://www.linkdesign.com Co. Waterford, Ireland
Voice: +357-2-362 421 Voice: +353-51-386921
Fax: +357-2-362 429 We use FreeBSD Fax: +353-51-390880
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 09:12:43 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
Cc: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:03:22 PST."
<199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com>
References: <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:45 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes:
: Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a
: trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro?
Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks,
even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that
Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there
is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the
FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is
cheaper and easier.
Warner
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 10:20:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:12:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: fast router code. (fwd)
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I thought I would forward a comment from the author of the
fast router code mentionned here a few days ago.
julian
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:45:53 +0200 (EET)
From: Stefan Nilsson <sni@cs.hut.fi>
To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
Cc: Gunnar Karlsson <gunnar@tcm.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: fast router code.
On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote:
> your project was recently publicised in the FreeBSD forums.
>
> Do you have any comparative speed numbers comparing the
> speed of your trie based system with the radix-tree
> based system used in BSD4.4 based systems?
No, we haven't done such a comparison yet and I just
realize that we faile to give a reference
to this implementation. We'll certainly fix that
in the final version of the paper.
I haven't looked at the code for the BSD algorithm
and don't know how hard it would be do to an actual
experimental comparison.
However, from what I've read about the BSD algorithm
it should be very similar to ours. It's also based on
a trie (Patricia tree), it uses path compression but
not level compression. In fact, if you turn off the
level compression from our implementation you loose
a factor 5 in speed and the depth of the structure
increases from 2 to 20.
Hence my guess is that, using level compression
as suggested in our paper, it possible to improve
the BSD algorithm by a factor of at least 5.
Stefan
--
Stefan Nilsson
Department of Computer Science +358 9 4514850 tel
Helsinki University of Technology +358 9 4513293 fax
P.O. Box 1100, FIN-02015 HUT www.cs.hut.fi/~sni
Finland
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:18:08 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:15:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Curt Sampson <cjs@portal.ca>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= <sos@FreeBSD.ORG>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: <199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk>
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On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote:
> I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has
> been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ?
Probably because the trademark owners just discovered the violation.
> This is just some lawyers trying to make $$, when it gets clear to
> them that there is NONE, they will find other things to persue
> pretty quickly.
You don't appear to have any understanding of trademark law
whatsoever. Money is not the issue here. If a trademark owner
discovers someone wrongly using his trademark and he does not take
action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark
owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue
them if they refuse.
If you don't like this state of things, you should be trying to
change US trademark law, not blaming the trademark owner, who is
simply doing what trademark law insists that he do.
cjs
Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/
Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates
Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:30:15 1998
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On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Dmitrij Tejblum wrote:
> Johan Larsson wrote:
> > What happened to this? Is there any development going on? Or did it just
> > die? It would be very nice to see it in current. I am running this just
> > now, and it seems to work fine. How much testing would it require before
> > it gets commited.
>
> I hope you seen the discussion in the other thread on -current, so you
> know answers to the questions. But please tell me: do you have FAT32 or
> VFAT? If FAT32, you are the first man in the world, who mounted a FAT32
> partition on FreeBSD :-)
Well, now i have mounted a fat32 partition under freebsd, and it seems to
work just fine!! :-) I must say that if not the msdosfs-netbsd.diff don't
get in to -current i will be extremely disappointed :)
Johan
--
* mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ *
* Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ *
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:31:53 1998
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From: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: <199802131610.JAA06143@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Feb 13, 98 09:10:45 am"
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:26:10 +0100 (MET)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, koshy@india.hp.com,
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As Warner Losh wrote...
> In message <199802122303.PAA04588@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes:
> : Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a
> : trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro?
>
> Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks,
> even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that
> Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there
> is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the
> FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is
> cheaper and easier.
<RAMBLE>
*very deep sigh* I have no problems with people defending their rights,
but the (I'm sorry to say it) American tradition of 'CU in court'
over nitpicking stuff is hilarious at best and frustrating at worst.
My problem with it is, as Warner already indicates, that the party
with the best lawyer (read: most $$ to burn) will in all likelihood
win the case. For a start, the party who is less equipped with $$
will probably settle without even trying to win in court. The issue
who is right or wrong is irrelevant.
What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues
FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but
the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win.
No $$ to burn.
</RAMBLE>
> Warner
Wilko
_ ______________________________________________________________________
| / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko
|/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try'
--------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix --
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 11:49:13 1998
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From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" <giffunip@asme.org>
Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia
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To: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
CC: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>, mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com,
koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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Wilko Bulte wrote:
> ..
>
> My problem with it is, as Warner already indicates, that the party
> with the best lawyer (read: most $$ to burn) will in all likelihood
> win the case. For a start, the party who is less equipped with $$
> will probably settle without even trying to win in court. The issue
> who is right or wrong is irrelevant.
>
While I was using AIX 4.1.3, I noticed they include some of the BSD
games (very happily I enjoyed fortune on a different box :). Why not
include the games that come with AIX and wait for IBM's lawyers to
defend us in case of an eventuality ?
I guess we could port the rest from an OpenBSD repository...just a
suggestion, I miss them, but they don't really belong with the kernel.
Pedro.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:14:32 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:14:00 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: Steve Price <sprice@hiwaay.net>, Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
References: <199802122013.UAA06400@awfulhak.org> <34E3BC84.3F54BC7E@hiwaay.net>
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On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 09:22:44PM -0600, Steve Price wrote:
[... on diff formats ...]
> Yes it can be in any format. I happen to prefer unified diffs
> because they are easier for me to fix tab->space expansions among
> other things. My personal preference only.
I strongly prefer unified diffs. They make it much easier to see the
changes on a detailed level (for me, at least).
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:20:49 1998
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Message-ID: <19980213161925.17591@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:19:25 -0500
From: Brian Cully <shmit@erols.com>
To: Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Another problem with debugging the navigator on FreeBSD2.2-STABLE
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On %M %N, Chris Toshok wrote:
> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
> foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192
> (gdb)
Every time I have this problem it's because I've clobbered the stack.
--
Brian Cully <shmit@erols.com>
``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung
upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the
best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There)
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:43:54 1998
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Subject: "mount /dev/fd0 /" == REBOOT! (?)
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mount /dev/fd0 /
I was surprised when the above command rebooted my machine. Is this
correct behavior? This is on 3.0-971208-SNAP BTW.
I'd missed a char and meant to specify "/a" for the mount point. Shouldn't
the above command just fail since / is already mounted?
Randall Hopper
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:45:54 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:38:55 +0100
From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>
To: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: GGI Problem..
References: <199802130437.PAA13183@cain.gsoft.com.au>
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In-Reply-To: <199802130437.PAA13183@cain.gsoft.com.au>; from Daniel O'Connor on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:07:09PM +1030
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On Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:07:09PM +1030, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> Well, I fixed the linking problem with libggi by adding the -r flag to the
> link process.. I am not actually sure what effect it has, and I can't test it
> since the rest of GGI doesn't exist yet...
>
> Anyone feel like enlightening me? :)
(From memory of the man page).
-r makes ld create a new object file, suitable for another pass through ld.
This is useful together with symorder to restrict symbol exposure at
some points in the link process. You're not getting an executable,
though - you're getting an object that isn't finished with linking.
Eivind.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:47:29 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802132146.OAA07390@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:46:52 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, grog@lemis.com, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802131610.JAA06143@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 13, 98 09:10:45 am
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> : Are you willing to fund the FreeBSD Project's defence against a
> : trademark litigation case pursued by Hasbro?
>
> Hasbro is notorious for fighting tooth and nail for their trademarks,
> even when they don't have much of a case. Witness all the money that
> Clue Computing has spent on legal defence of clue.com. Unless there
> is someone that wants to step in and fund the legal defence of the
> FreeBSD stuff, I hate to say it, but killing stuff from the tree is
> cheaper and easier.
Renaming it is cheaper still, since it doesn't require clobbering it
in the attic.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 13:57:21 1998
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From: Brian Handy <handy@sag.space.lockheed.com>
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Syquest SparQ drives
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980213135408.28798Y-100000@sag.space.lockheed.com>
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...Anybody play with one of these yet? Looks like a newer faster cheaper
version of the Jaz drives -- 1GB, faster and more bandwidth than the Jaz.
However, right now only available in Parallel Port and EIDE. $200 for the
drive, $33/each for the media.
http://www.syquest.com/products/m_sparq.html
Any speculation as to whether these bad boys will work in FreeBSD? Can we
speak EIDE to these?
Brian
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 14:00:30 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:41:05 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 13, 98 03:54:36 am
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> Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in
> question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for
> something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here:
> /usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of
> lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then
> maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it
> to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid
> antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed
> of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the
> damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the
> attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-)
Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 14:53:03 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
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Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:41:05 GMT."
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While we at it, why not rename the games directory to ports/antiques-games?
I really don't see the point of having the games directory as part of
the base install. For the lamers that want fortune or xzy game they
can install it as an addon package .
Amancio
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 15:07:24 1998
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To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:37:53 +0100."
<199802130737.IAA01675@sos.freebsd.dk>
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:06:26 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> In reply to Mike Smith who wrote:
> >
> > > Q1: How far is FreeBSD willing to go in the direction of ripping out
> > > portions of its source base? Is it willing to remove files in
> > > non-games directories?
> >
> > If such files reasonably constitute trademark violations, and there is
> > a real threat of action, then *something* will have to be done, yes.
>
> Well, somethings has to be done yes, but we are not in agreement on
> what should be done, that's life.
Typical. 8)
> I think the requests so far has been outright stupid, those games has
> been in the *BSD tree for years, why are they suddenly so important ?
Because of the way trademark law works. You don't appear to have
understood this yet.
> I think that one of our biggest problems here is the "affiliation"
> with Walnut Creek, the legalese people see a company that they can
> sue for real money.
No.
What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength
of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark,
they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore
companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's
market, and hitting their bottom line.
_That_ is the issue here.
> Remember the requests to remove parts of our
> sources allways came via WC. If we where just a "free" project
> (which we are, but the world doesn't allways see it right), there
> would be NO idea in sueing (read NO MONEY to winn).
I can't heap enough scorn on this perspective, so I won't. Suffice to
say that you're completely wrong.
> > > Q3: Are the sources for the "extracted" parts available as a package
> > > from anywhere else in the world?
> >
> > Obviously, no. You can get them off an old FreeBSD CDROM though.
>
> Or you can go to NetBSD and OpenBSD they still have the bits around,
> they havn't given in (power to them on that account).
There are a couple of ways you can explain this:
- Neither OpenBSD nor NetBSD have reached the 'visibility threshold'
where it becomes a legal necessity to pursue the issue.
- The aforementioned camps think that there is some moral value in
"being tough". It's not my place to judge them publically.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 15:25:40 1998
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Message-ID: <19980214095454.51602@freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:54:54 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
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In-Reply-To: <C50B6FBA632FD111AF0F0000C0AD71EE413294@dcn71.dcn.att.com>; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 09:49:09AM -0500
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 9:49:09 -0500, sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote:
>
>> ----------
>> From: Ustimenko Semen[SMTP:semen@iclub.nsu.ru]
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
>>
>> As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:)
>>
> By the way, I can share some experience from using DDS. As I've
> found there are two major manufacturers of DDS drives: Sony and
> HP. From others I saw ARCHIVE (?) Viper in ICLs and it is so bad
> that it does not deserve any discussion, they can not survive
> even 2 weeks of operation.
This presumably demonstrates the usefulness of ICLs.
As I have frequently reported on this list, I had nothing but trouble
with HP DDS-1 drives. I had 4 of them, and they lived between 5 and 8
months. That changed when I got an HP DDS-2 drive, which lasted over
a year. I've been using an Archive changer now for 15 months, and
haven't had any trouble (although I'm beginning to wonder if the
original topic isn't biting me too: I'm only getting 2.7 GB on a 90m
tape, too much for no compression and very little for compression).
> HP uses OEM Sony drives in their cheap DDS devices designated for
> PCs, and own HP drives in RISC servers. The latest are more expensive
> (twice?) but a lot better.
This is news to me. Which model numbers?
> The problem with Sony drives is that even with extensive use of
> cleaning cartridges at some point (like 150-200 full tape backups,
> with cleaning after each other backup) they come to the point when
> use of cleaning tape in any amount can't stop the 'need cleaning'
> light from blinking. Disassembling and cleaning up them manually
> helps but only for something like 5 full tape backups. HP drives
> have no such problem, they live a lot longer, and it takes very many
> backups together with very few cleanings to kill them (yes, I saw
> dead one, peoples have used it for half a year without any
> cleaning).
I did that once on my first DDS-1 drive--it came without instructions,
and nobody knew it needed cleaning. It didn't do any better or any
worse than the other ones, which I *did* clean.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:09:04 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:34:54 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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In-Reply-To: <199802132306.PAA04969@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 03:06:26PM -0800
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength
> of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark,
> they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore
> companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's
> market, and hitting their bottom line.
>
> _That_ is the issue here.
Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This
sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:13:23 1998
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To: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:26:10 +0100."
<199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl>
References: <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:19 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes:
: What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues
: FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but
: the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win.
: No $$ to burn.
I'm sure that lots of people would come out of the woodwork to support
almost any of the *BSDs that get sued by said company... I know that
I would.
Warner
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:14:11 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:22:41 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Ustimenko Semen <semen@iclub.nsu.ru>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980213162358.8500A-100000@iclub.nsu.ru>; from Ustimenko Semen on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 04:26:34PM +0600
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 16:26:34 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 February 1998 at 19:51:36 +0600, Ustimenko Semen wrote:
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I have got Sony SDT-1700 device, but i can't get it work:(
>
> As a wrote - it is SDT-7000 realy:)
>
>>> It should write 4 Gig on one
>>> DDS Cassete. But under 2.2.5-RELEASE write to /dev/rst0 fail
>>> on near 1 Gig.
>>>
>>> The seller tells it works fine under WinNT with 3d Service Pack.
>>> Is this the only way to make it work?
>>
>> No, that's a very bad way to make it work. NT tape support is almost
>> non-existent.
>>
>> You don't say how you determined that you got to the end of the tape.
>> Programs like dump have their own idea of how big the tape is, and
>> will stop at this point even if you haven't got to EOT. I don't know
>> dump, but it should be in the man page. If you're getting this with
>> tar, something's seriously wrong.
>
> I wrote simple program, that fwrite to stdout random seeds, and to stderr
> - number of written bytes.
> Then i redirect output of my program to /dev/rst0, and on near 900Kb,
> program failed to fwrite due to i/o error. After i/o error any operations
> on /dev/rst0 cause messages from kernel, that it can't write to device.
> Else: the Cassete was used more than on 3/4.
Well, I'm sure you could rewind and try again.
> I use DDS-2, it shall ( as noticed) write 4G without and 8G with
> compression.
Can you send me the program? You can put it on
ftp://ftp.lemis.com/incoming.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:21:31 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in
question. this includes changing history..
a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it.
after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work
but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year".
On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> > What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength
> > of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark,
> > they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore
> > companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's
> > market, and hitting their bottom line.
> >
> > _That_ is the issue here.
>
> Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This
> sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back.
>
> Greg
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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>
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
> > What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength
> > of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark,
> > they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore
> > companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's
> > market, and hitting their bottom line.
> >
> > _That_ is the issue here.
>
> Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This
> sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back.
The current issue with Hasbro is over the name. The Tetris precedent
makes it prudent to remove the entire game, in order to save the effort
of dealing with it later.
If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name
change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:36:50 1998
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To: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
cc: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:19 MST."
<199802140013.RAA09317@harmony.village.org>
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:35 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> In message <199802131726.SAA11890@yedi.iaf.nl> Wilko Bulte writes:
> : What will FreeBSD Inc do if say a big company near Seattle sues
> : FreeBSD Inc for something? Theoretical maybe (probably ;-) but
> : the case is clear: no way the 'Chuck defense team' would ever win.
> : No $$ to burn.
>
> I'm sure that lots of people would come out of the woodwork to support
> almost any of the *BSDs that get sued by said company... I know that
> I would.
I'm sure they would, if the cause was reasonable.
Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a
stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you?
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:39:15 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
References: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> <199802140033.QAA05480@dingo.cdrom.com>
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In-Reply-To: <199802140033.QAA05480@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 04:33:56PM -0800
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 16:33:56 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 15:06:26 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>>> What Hasbro care about is being able to sell Boggle on the strength
>>> of its name. If they don't pursue *everyone* violating the trademark,
>>> they lose it. As soon as they lose it, there are dozens of offshore
>>> companies that will start marketting Boggle clones, eating Hasbro's
>>> market, and hitting their bottom line.
>>>
>>> _That_ is the issue here.
>>
>> Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This
>> sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back.
>
> The current issue with Hasbro is over the name. The Tetris precedent
> makes it prudent to remove the entire game, in order to save the effort
> of dealing with it later.
>
> If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name
> change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster.
How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:49:47 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
Cc: Wilko Bulte <wilko@yedi.iaf.nl>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:35:35 PST."
<199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com>
References: <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:48:26 -0700
From: Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
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In message <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes:
: Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a
: stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you?
Nope. Boggle can die the big death as far as I'm concerned. Now, if
someone went after FreeBSD for a significant part of the kernel...
Warner
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:51:23 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:21:05 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Chris Toshok <toshok@netscape.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Another problem with debugging the navigator on FreeBSD2.2-STABLE
References: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com>
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In-Reply-To: <34E3CE26.880FC190@netscape.com>; from Chris Toshok on Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:37:58PM -0800
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
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On Thu, 12 February 1998 at 20:37:58 -0800, Chris Toshok wrote:
> So, I've gotten around my complete inability to even *run* gdb on the
> navigator, but now I've got another problem: When I hit a breakpoint
> and try to either step or continue, I see:
>
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
>
> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
> foo_nsFunction (foo=0x0) at foofile.c:192
> (gdb)
>
> The problem is, the breakpoint is at the same place at which the program
> just stopped. The only way to get past this breakpoint is to disable
> the breakpoint and continue. Disabling the breakpoing and stepping
> doesn't work.
It should do. Are you sure that this is the real problem?
> It's getting pretty frustrating, trying to debug a large amount of code
> by setting breakpoints at just about every line of a function and
> disabling one and then enabling another.
>
> Anyone got an idea what could be causing this? Debugging other
> programs works fine. I would imagine that the size of the program
> and it's shared libraries is part of the problem, but what can I do
> to fix it?
Good question. Can you give me a binary to look at?
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 16:56:37 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:55:46 +0900 (JST)
From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: fast router code. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980213101032.18313B-100000@current1.whistle.com>
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Actually, the 4.4BSD implementation is a radix trie (Try-ee), you can read
about it in "Algorithms for C", by Robert Sedgewick. It is not a Patricia
Tree as mentioned in one of Stevens books.
Mike Hancock
On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote:
> I thought I would forward a comment from the author of the
> fast router code mentionned here a few days ago.
>
> julian
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:45:53 +0200 (EET)
> From: Stefan Nilsson <sni@cs.hut.fi>
> To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
> Cc: Gunnar Karlsson <gunnar@tcm.hut.fi>
> Subject: Re: fast router code.
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote:
>
> > your project was recently publicised in the FreeBSD forums.
> >
> > Do you have any comparative speed numbers comparing the
> > speed of your trie based system with the radix-tree
> > based system used in BSD4.4 based systems?
>
> No, we haven't done such a comparison yet and I just
> realize that we faile to give a reference
> to this implementation. We'll certainly fix that
> in the final version of the paper.
>
> I haven't looked at the code for the BSD algorithm
> and don't know how hard it would be do to an actual
> experimental comparison.
> However, from what I've read about the BSD algorithm
> it should be very similar to ours. It's also based on
> a trie (Patricia tree), it uses path compression but
> not level compression. In fact, if you turn off the
> level compression from our implementation you loose
> a factor 5 in speed and the depth of the structure
> increases from 2 to 20.
>
> Hence my guess is that, using level compression
> as suggested in our paper, it possible to improve
> the BSD algorithm by a factor of at least 5.
>
> Stefan
> --
> Stefan Nilsson
> Department of Computer Science +358 9 4514850 tel
> Helsinki University of Technology +358 9 4513293 fax
> P.O. Box 1100, FIN-02015 HUT www.cs.hut.fi/~sni
> Finland
>
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
>
--
michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp
CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku,
Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 17:01:10 1998
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To: rhh@ct.picker.com
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: "mount /dev/fd0 /" == REBOOT! (?)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:31 -0500"
References: <19980213164231.23272@ct.picker.com>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:00:49 +0100
From: Tor Egge <Tor.Egge@idi.ntnu.no>
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> mount /dev/fd0 /
>
> I was surprised when the above command rebooted my machine. Is this
> correct behavior? This is on 3.0-971208-SNAP BTW.
This is a known problem (assuming that you got a panic: lockmgr:
locking against myself). The mount system call has an exclusive lock
on '/' while ffs_mount tries to perform a lookup on '/dev/rfd0'.
PR kern/434, kern/1031, kern/1067, kern/2174 reports the same problem.
I've sent a suggested fix for PR#1067.
- Tor Egge
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 17:02:44 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030."
<19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com>
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:00:28 -0800
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> > If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name
> > change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster.
>
> How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
A call for volunteers was made when the issue first came up, many weeks
ago.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:31:03 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:08:36 +1030."
<19980214110836.27959@freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:30:01 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-)
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:35:25 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:38:59 -0500 (EST)
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To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>, Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>,
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Subject: Coda [ was: RE: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors ], Linux
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Hello all,
To introduce myself, I suppose I should say that I am more or less in
charge of the Coda project now. So you can take this as a bit as our
official view (fwiw). First of all: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST IN Coda!
I felt it would be a good idea for me to respond to the flurry of messages
coming from the FreeBSD community. I try to read all of them but can't
really reply right away to everything.
A) Re: Coda FS: FBSD port done!, but development favors Linux
-------------------------------------------------------------
This is NOT AT ALL TRUE. I can see how what I said evolved into this
statement, here is what I really said (or believe I said):
a) the FreeBSD port (2.2.5) is _almost_ done. We have a working client,
the servers are playing up a bit.
b) we DO NOT FAVOUR LINUX. It is true that our servers start up 3 times
faster on Linux than on NetBSD 1.2. It is also true that a fairly large
group of students from Yale is helping to implement Linux specific Coda
optimizations (which FreeBSD may already have). It is also true that some
NetBSD people have been sending me very unfriendly messages about Linux.
Finally it is true that a lot of high quality FreeBSD/NetBSD messages
have been sent to the Coda lists -- that's great.
Please join the linux-coda lists (see www.coda.cs.cmu.edu). Don't engage
in OS wars, or irrelevant criticism of other free or commercial operating
systems -- if it happens I'll start moderating the list. We are just
interested in Coda. The list will probably be renamed reflect its
NON-linux status.
We hate OS wars, and want Coda on all platforms particularly the free
Unices and the Windows platforms -- all using one code base. A lot of
work remains to be done -- many features are not reliable enough,
performance and scaleability, useability and administration can be much
improved. Many good things come out of trying to just use Coda. Use our
test server, or set up your own. If you happen to have time, by all means
send us patches. Mail about difficulties to the list -- we'll try to
help.
c) YES, we are making a "CURRENT release for FreeBSD". Bob Baron chose to
first do 2.2.5 and will soon start on current (vz. when the server works
and some other minor kernel issues have been sorted out). I hope the
kernel code of this release can be accepted for inclusion in the FreeBSD
kernel.
B) Inode calls.
---------------
For scalability these calls are desirable. In fact we probably only need
iopen, istat, idelete and I'll try to remove iinc and idec (used for copy
on write vnodes). These inode calls are only used by the cache manager and
the servers and don't compromise security of the system, since they should
be restricted to root.
Ted Ts'o indeed said that Linus is probably against plain "iopen" -- and
rightly so. Using the special names like 'I'N'O'D'E we can let it work
right with the VFS and dentry's etc while retaining most of the benefits
of speed. For Coda this will just become an optionally supported
partition type.
It should indeed be a mount option, or better perhaps something set with a
utility in the superblock, so that fsck knows about it too. (see the
messages of myself and Ted on linux-coda).
C) Ext2 vs FFS vs Coda
----------------------
Coda needs much larger vnodes to deal with replication servers (among
others). We also run in user space -- mostly and use proper RVM
transactions to guarantee (on all platforms) very high consistency on
metadata. Effectively we are a transactional, log based system on servers.
We use file storage only for file data not for metadata.
On clients we also have transactions, but we don't flush them right away.
We hope to implement write back caching where large groups of transactions
can reach the server and improve performance by eliminating many
transaction related fsyncs.
It is unwise to speculate about the consistency guarantees which ext2fs
might offer to Coda versus ffs -- without considering RVM. The Coda meta
data will be treated identically through RVM, on all platforms. The file
data might be slightly more at risk in ext2fs (although I believe that ffs
and extfs mostly differ in the handling of metadata).
I hope this clarifies some of the recent discussions.
Thank you very much for all your enthusiasm -- that makes us very happy of
course.
- Peter Braam -
Senior Systems Scientist
Coda Project, SCS, CMU
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:35:03 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:31 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>> How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
>
> Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-)
Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't
exist.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:36:55 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802140236.TAA12476@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:36:23 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
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In-Reply-To: <199802140100.RAA05653@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 13, 98 05:00:28 pm
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> > > If there was any real utility to boggle in the first place, a name
> > > change would be fine. As it is, nuking it is simpler and faster.
> >
> > How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
>
> A call for volunteers was made when the issue first came up, many weeks
> ago.
How about calling for volunteers, and this time not limiting it to
"volunteers with commit priviledges"?
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:42:02 1998
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To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:04:31 +1030."
<19980214130431.33631@freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:41:12 -0800
Message-ID: <10555.887424072@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Only because people still continue to volunteer on their own hook to
do various things that strike their fancies. When I actually *ask*
for volunteers, all I usually hear are many feet stampeding in the
other direction. :-)
That's not to say that "the call" hasn't been heeding by many in the
past (which is always greatly appreciated), but it's not a
statistically predominant outcome.
Jordan
> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> >> How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
> >
> > Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-)
>
> Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't
> exist.
>
> Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:46:00 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802140234.TAA12387@usr06.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:34:14 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980214103454.41822@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 14, 98 10:34:54 am
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> Is this all they're asking? A name change would solve that. This
> sounds very different from the issue with Tetris a few months back.
A name change would have solved the "Tetris problem" as well.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 18:53:35 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:23:11 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, koshy@india.hp.com,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
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In-Reply-To: <10555.887424072@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Feb 13, 1998 at 06:41:12PM -0800
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On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:41:12 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 February 1998 at 18:30:01 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>>>> How about asking for volunteers to do the work?
>>>
>>> Gosh, yes, that works so often around here. :-)
>>
>> Looks like you need a rest. If it didn't work, FreeBSD wouldn't
>> exist.
>
> Only because people still continue to volunteer on their own hook to
> do various things that strike their fancies. When I actually *ask*
> for volunteers, all I usually hear are many feet stampeding in the
> other direction. :-)
>
> That's not to say that "the call" hasn't been heeding by many in the
> past (which is always greatly appreciated), but it's not a
> statistically predominant outcome.
OK. Shall I call for volunteers on -questions? :-)
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 19:05:44 1998
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To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:34 PST."
<199802132248.OAA05676@rah.star-gate.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:05:25 -0700
From: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org>
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>>>>> "Amancio" == Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com> writes:
Amancio> While we at it, why not rename the games directory to
Amancio> ports/antiques-games?
If you do that please be sure to bring back the original FORTRAN
source code for adventure :-P
--lyndon
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 19:40:54 1998
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From: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sony SDT-7000 Tape won't write 4Gig
To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:40:16 +1100 (EDT)
Cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, semen@iclub.nsu.ru
In-Reply-To: <19980214095454.51602@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 14, 98 09:54:54 am
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In some mail from Greg Lehey, sie said:
>
> As I have frequently reported on this list, I had nothing but trouble
> with HP DDS-1 drives. I had 4 of them, and they lived between 5 and 8
> months. That changed when I got an HP DDS-2 drive, which lasted over
> a year. I've been using an Archive changer now for 15 months, and
> haven't had any trouble (although I'm beginning to wonder if the
> original topic isn't biting me too: I'm only getting 2.7 GB on a 90m
> tape, too much for no compression and very little for compression).
Having worked at a largish HP site, the standard thing to do when you
had any trouble with a HP DDS-1 (DLZ or not) drive was to call up and
get a replacement. DDS-2's weren't much better, and finally with the
DDS-3, it actually might see out it's warranty before being replaced.
Darren
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 20:02:30 1998
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From: Simon Shapiro <shimon@simon-shapiro.org>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: WatchDog Timer
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What is the driver name & path of the WatchDog timer device driver?
I can't find it. I know it is dumb of me...
----------
Sincerely Yours,
Simon Shapiro
Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.708.7858
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 20:09:04 1998
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To: Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:45 PST."
<Pine.BSF.3.95.980213161157.23295P-100000@current1.whistle.com>
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:53:03 -0800
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>I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in
>question. this includes changing history..
>a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it.
>after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work
>but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year".
It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs
update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with
the boggle files and aborts.
-DG
David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 21:15:20 1998
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:15:13 -0800
From: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@efn.org>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
References: <6186.887370876@time.cdrom.com> <199802132141.OAA07045@usr02.primenet.com>
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Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Organization: Cu Networking
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Terry Lambert scribbled this message on Feb 13:
> > Anyway, this is now our "2nd warning" from the trademark folks in
> > question and if was over something that even vaguely COUNTED for
> > something (and I'll give the slower students a hint here:
> > /usr/src/games/boggle does not, indeed, count for so much as a cup of
> > lukewarm feline spittle in the overall BSD sense of things), then
> > maybe I'd even consider fighting it or at the very least renaming it
> > to "bogroll" or something but hey, it doesn't - it's a stupid
> > antiquated game that the trademark holders should probably be ashamed
> > of rather than attempting to defend here, OK? If it weren't for the
> > damage to the CVS tree caused by having to actually punt it from the
> > attic, hell, I'd probably even rate its departure as a welcome event! :-)
>
> Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it.
no, someone with the time needs to rename it and submit it via send-pr..
--
John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954
Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405
Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:14:55 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802140614.XAA14345@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:14:44 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980213211513.27436@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Feb 13, 98 09:15:13 pm
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> > Someone with commit priviledges needs to rename it.
>
> no, someone with the time needs to rename it and submit it via send-pr..
Feel free to send-pr this...
cd $CVSROOT/src/games
vi Makefile,v
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:x
mv boggle boffle
cd boffle
vi Makefile,v
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:x
cd mkdict
vi mkdict.c,v
:1,$s/"bog\.h"/"bof.h"/g
:x
cd ../mkindex
vi mkindex.c,v
:1,$s/"bog\.h"/"bof.h"/g
:x
cd ..
mv boggle boffle
cd boffle
mv bog.h,v bof.h,v
mv bog.c,v bof.c,v
mv boggle.6,v boffle.6,v
vi Makefile,v
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:1,$s/bog/bof/g
:x
vi boffle.6,v
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:1,$s/BOGGLE/BOFFLE/g
:1,$s/Boggle/Boffle/g
:1,$s/a trademark of Parker Brothers/not a trademark/g
:x
vi helpfile,v
:1,$s/Boggle/Boffle/g
:1,$s/bog/bof/g
:1,$s/a trademark of Parker Brothers/not a trademark/g
:wq
vi bof.*,v help.c,v mach.c,v timer.c,v word.c,v
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:1,$s/bog/bof/g
:w
:n
<repeat until "No more files to edit.")
:q
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:18:55 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802140618.XAA15557@usr01.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
To: dg@root.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:18:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: julian@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802140353.TAA21910@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Feb 13, 98 07:53:03 pm
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> >I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in
> >question. this includes changing history..
> >a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it.
> >after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work
> >but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year".
>
> It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs
> update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with
> the boggle files and aborts.
Ah. Where would this information be stored? I apparently left off a:
vi wherever
:1,$s/boggle/boffle/g
:1,$s/bog\.c/bof\.c/g
:1,$s/bog\.h/bof\.h/g
:x
Note: you will have this same problem if you delete it off the face of
CVS, won't you?
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:34:12 1998
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From: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: FS Jumbo patches
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Terry,
I haven't been following current for a while so I missed your patches, but
I can guess at the results as far as you getting anywhere.
Why don't you ask for commit-privs to a separate CVS repository as I
suggested a few times. Then go to it and get a team of early adopters to
join in to be merge slaves, general supporters, reviewers, contributors,
and testers. If you're confident in the quality of your work it will
surely be integrated into current as SMP was.
All this "Hell-bent on Current or I'm not Terry Lambert" is just not
productive. Imagine how far along you'd be if had done this a few years
ago.
You might want to talk to dyson, dg, phk and others who are likely to make
large changes in current that effect your code for timing considerations.
Mike
--
'Algorithms are the "stuff" of Computer Science' Robert Sedgewick
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 22:51:12 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:51:03 +1100 (EST)
From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
cc: mrb@labyrinth.net.au
Subject: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd
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I'm trying make a 15 GB ccd filesystem, with two 7.5 GB disk partitions,
but while it works happily in multi-user mode, it fails to fsck at boot.
The error messages are
cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp
/dev/rccd0c : CAN'T CHECK FILE SYSTEM
/dev/rccd0c : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY RUN FSCK MANUALLY
THE FOLLOWING FILE SYSTEM HAD AN INCONISTENCY /dev/rccd0c (/var/spool/news)
Automatic file system check failed . . . help
This occurs every time you reboot - no matter how clean the shutdown
The system has 128 MB ram.
Any ideas?
Danny
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:13:57 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802140713.AAA15558@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: FS Jumbo patches
To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:13:42 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SV4.3.95.980214151816.12825B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp> from "Michael Hancock" at Feb 14, 98 03:33:29 pm
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> I haven't been following current for a while so I missed your patches, but
> I can guess at the results as far as you getting anywhere.
See http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/#COMMITS.
Julian has recently commited changes that Jeremey Allison made (and that
I contributed to) to make pthreads work.
I am also getting feedback on the stuff I've posted.
> Why don't you ask for commit-privs to a separate CVS repository as I
> suggested a few times. Then go to it and get a team of early adopters to
> join in to be merge slaves, general supporters, reviewers, contributors,
> and testers. If you're confident in the quality of your work it will
> surely be integrated into current as SMP was.
I'll try that again, but I've tried it before with little luck.
> All this "Hell-bent on Current or I'm not Terry Lambert" is just not
> productive. Imagine how far along you'd be if had done this a few years
> ago.
"Hell bent" is a little harsh. I've been ripping my patches into tiny
piece that can be understood by the average dolt instead of the average
engineer, and so far I seem to be making progress. I'm optimistic. If
nothing else, BSDI will be committing my NFS locking patches.
> You might want to talk to dyson, dg, phk and others who are likely to make
> large changes in current that effect your code for timing considerations.
I had dinner with Dyson and McKusick last Thursday. 8-). And PHK is
the guy who committed my "l_hotchar" stuff.
You just need to be patient for these things; if nothing else, I will
outlive the nay-sayers...
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:17:00 1998
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Message-Id: <199802140716.AAA15698@usr08.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: FS Jumbo patches
To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:16:43 +0000 (GMT)
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In-Reply-To: <199802140713.AAA15558@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 14, 98 07:13:42 am
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[ ... stuff ... ]
Clearly, I thought this was private email... please disregard unless your
name is Michael Hancock.
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
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On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 17:51:03 +1100, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
>
> I'm trying make a 15 GB ccd filesystem, with two 7.5 GB disk partitions,
> but while it works happily in multi-user mode, it fails to fsck at boot.
>
> The error messages are
>
> cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp
> /dev/rccd0c : CAN'T CHECK FILE SYSTEM
> /dev/rccd0c : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY RUN FSCK MANUALLY
> THE FOLLOWING FILE SYSTEM HAD AN INCONISTENCY /dev/rccd0c (/var/spool/news)
> Automatic file system check failed . . . help
>
> This occurs every time you reboot - no matter how clean the shutdown
>
> The system has 128 MB ram.
>
> Any ideas?
ISTR that fsck it a little silly with memory allocation on large file
systems, but that it should work if you have enough swap. Don't
assume that this is the first large allocation, so the 128 MB of RAM
may not be enough.
Does the file system fsck correctly after you're up and running? If
so, you might like to check your swap usage during the fsck. One way
or the other it would be interesting to know how much swap you have
allocated.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 13 23:25:19 1998
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To: Michael Bielicki <michael@linkdesign.com>
cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: how to install tk-8.0.2 on current
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:25:07 +0200
From: Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za>
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Michael Bielicki wrote:
> I can´t seem to be able to install the tk8 port on CURRENT. It
> allways tries to install tcl 8.0.2.
This is a feature. The tcl80 stuff in CURRENT has an uncertain (?)
future, and is supposed to be stand-alone (at this point anyway).
> Is there a patch for the port so it stops doing this and finds the included
> tcl stuff in CURRENT ??
No.
M
--
Mark Murray
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 00:53:48 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
cc: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>,
freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrb@labyrinth.net.au
Subject: Re: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd
In-Reply-To: <19980214175413.56936@freebie.lemis.com>
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On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp
...
> > The system has 128 MB ram.
...
> ISTR that fsck it a little silly with memory allocation on large file
> systems, but that it should work if you have enough swap. Don't
...
128MB is plenty, but the stock /etc/login.conf will not let fsck use all
of it.
This is _old_ issue. Search archive for "lncntp". Distinctive error
messages like that are very handy for archive searches.
Tom
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 00:53:49 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:11:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" <danny@panda.hilink.com.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrb@labyrinth.net.au
Subject: Re: fsck -p in /etc/rc on large ccd
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On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote:
> cannot allocate 8325122 bytes for lncntp
See login.conf Settings for "daemon" must be set higher.
Tom
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 01:01:46 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: julian@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:18:41 GMT."
<199802140618.XAA15557@usr01.primenet.com>
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:01:13 -0800
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>> >I think our policy should be to change the name of the program in
>> >question. this includes changing history..
>> >a global replace in the ,v files would probably fix it.
>> >after renaming theh appropriate files, it should all still work
>> >but with a different name, even versions checked out with -D "last year".
>>
>> It would still leave the biggest problem which occurs when people do cvs
>> update; with the boggle RCS files renamed, CVS doesn't know what to do with
>> the boggle files and aborts.
>
>Ah. Where would this information be stored?
It is stored in the CVS/Entries file of the checked out directory.
-DG
David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 03:51:37 1998
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Message-ID: <19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:17 +0100
From: Alex Le Heux <alexlh@p.funk.org>
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: some funny things
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Hi,
I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice
two strange things:
1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed
in my kernel config file.
2. when playing mp3s with mpg123, if mpg123 ever gets behind on decoding
(me forgetting the -b flag), the sound stops, and doesn't come back.
The only solution I've found is rebooting the machine.
If anyone wants more info, I'll be happy to supply it.
Alex
--
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 04:05:27 1998
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To: Alex Le Heux <alexlh@p.funk.org>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: some funny things
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:17 +0100."
<19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:04:29 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> Hi,
>
> I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice
> two strange things:
>
> 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed
> in my kernel config file.
This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the
first PnP device.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 05:37:45 1998
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To: tlambert@primenet.com
CC: ac199@hwcn.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hoek@hwcn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-reply-to: <199802120603.XAA03786@usr02.primenet.com> (message from Terry
Lambert on Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:03:41 +0000 (GMT))
Subject: Re: ftp://freebsd.org - RIP
From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami)
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* These are *not* 1-2k patches. The stuff Jeremey did on making signal
Then the patches just shouldn't go into the ports tree. Put up the
patch on some site you have access to (ftp or http) and use
PATCH_SITES to specify them.
Satoshi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:16:42 1998
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To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: //freebsd.org - RIP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:34:33 EST."
<199802112034.PAA04842@pudv01.ric.pmu.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:16:43 -0800
Message-ID: <16935.887465803@time.cdrom.com>
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Apologies for the form-letter reply, but a lot of folks came out
of the woodwork for this one - I'm shocked! :)
I'd like to thank everyone who volunteered to "staff" this position -
you guys know who you are! :-) It was kind of a difficult choice
considering the sheer number of truly able folks who volunteered, but
I finally settled on Steve Sims and Nik Clayton as co-maintainers of
the ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/{incoming,development}
hierarchies. You may send requests to them at:
freebsd-maintainers@ftp.freebsd.org
If you're wanting a sub-project hierarchy created under development
(in which case you should also send a short bio describing the
project, who's working on it and/or any specialized mailing list or
web page resources dedicated to it) or if you have some updated bits
uploaded into incoming/ for an existing sub-project and you want them
moved.
Please also be patient if your messages to this alias aren't answered
immediately - both these guys also have other lives to deal with and
won't always be just sitting there, waiting for your email. :-)
Thanks,
Jordan
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:24:44 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802141255.NAA24303@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: some funny things
To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:55:32 +0100 (MET)
Cc: alexlh@p.funk.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199802141204.EAA21948@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 14, 98 04:04:10 am
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>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice
> > two strange things:
> >
> > 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed
> > in my kernel config file.
>
> This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the
> first PnP device.
oh... what a relief... finally I don't have to write this myself :)
cheers
luigi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 06:26:52 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802141257.NAA24311@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: Re: some funny things
To: alexlh@p.funk.org (Alex Le Heux)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:57:43 +0100 (MET)
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980214125017.58187@p.funk.org> from "Alex Le Heux" at Feb 14, 98 12:49:58 pm
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> in my kernel config file.
>
> 2. when playing mp3s with mpg123, if mpg123 ever gets behind on decoding
> (me forgetting the -b flag), the sound stops, and doesn't come back.
> The only solution I've found is rebooting the machine.
can you send me (plain text) your /var/run/dmesg.boot, and also
the output of "cat /dev/sndstat" ...
cheers
luigi
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 07:51:42 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:57:09 -0600
To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Alejandro Galindo <agalindo@servidor.exsocom.com.mx>
Subject: ipfw rule for permit http access
Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi, i installed an ipfirewall with the packet filter (ipfw), i need
permit the conection to my http server, and i have the next rules:
ipfw add pass tcp from any >1023 to 200.43.1.1 80
ipfw add pass tcp from 200.43.1.1 80 to any >1023
but the external clients cant access to my Web server. Can you indicate me
if the rules are ok? or, what rules can i do?
Thanks in advanced
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:08:53 1998
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Subject: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
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Hi,
I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
a weeks ago. I get the error:
vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a
few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops
people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered
quite important.
Any responses/fixes?
Cheers,
Dan
_____________________________________
Daniel J Blueman
BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester
Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net
Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:25:18 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199802141624.LAA05993@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: <199802140048.RAA09550@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Feb 13, 98 05:48:26 pm"
To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:24:32 -0500 (EST)
Cc: mike@smith.net.au, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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Warner Losh said:
> In message <199802140035.QAA05504@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes:
> : Would you bankrupt yourself for such a trivial cause as a clone of a
> : stupid word-guessing game? Is it worth that much to you?
>
> Nope. Boggle can die the big death as far as I'm concerned. Now, if
> someone went after FreeBSD for a significant part of the kernel...
>
That has been my opinion. However, I got stuck in the hell-hole of
Las Vegas for a day, others might think of it as an opportunity.
(Different strokes for different folks, I guess.)
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 08:27:20 1998
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From: Luigi Rizzo <luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Message-Id: <199802141443.PAA24546@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>
Subject: ufs on CDROM anyone ?
To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:43:08 +0100 (MET)
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With the price of CDR gone so down, i decided to try a fastest
technique for backup -- namely, just burn the raw partition on a CD and
then mount the disk as ufs.
Everything seemed to go fine (mount /dev/wcd0c /mnt) so i tried to read
the whole disk with
tar cvf /dev/null /mnt
after some time, i decided that things were working, pressed Ctrl-C to
abort TAR, and the system (2.2.1-R with IDE disk and ATAPI cdrom)
rebooted. No panic or other messages.
Is anyone else willing to look at the problem and see if it can be
reproduced with SCSI cds, or newer releases ?
The partition I dumped was about 500MB, not full, but i did not
try to write to the CD either (although I agree I should have used
mount -r perhaps...) disk went fine.
What i'd like to know is if the problem is related to the ATAPI code,
or to something in the ufs code which assumes the partition as writable
and dies if the underlying device does not support writes...
cheers
luigi
-----------------------------+--------------------------------------
Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione
email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa
tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/
_____________________________|______________________________________
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 14:34:59 1998
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From: "Arthur P. Pesa" <apesa@bellsouth.net>
To: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: panic: general protection fault
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:24:43 -0500
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Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on 2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy? I beleive that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another ethernet card swap at the moment. Following what is logged after the core dump:
developer kernel log messages:
> ess = Idle
> interrupt mask =
> panic: general protection fault
>
> syncing disks...
>
> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
> fault virtual address = 0x10
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
> syncing disks...
>
> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
> fault virtual address = 0x10
> fault code = supervisor read, page not present
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80
> code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b
> = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1
> processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0
> current process = Idle
> interrupt mask =
> panic: page fault
> Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000
> frame pointer = 0x10:0x0
> panic: general protection fault
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
> syncing disks... done
I do not have much expereince with system programming in Unix so any help will be greatly appreciated, even a pointer in the right direction as to debug methods or documentation.
TIA
________________________________________________________________________
Arthur Patrick Pesa
Integrated Object Development
(919) 845-0281 hm
(919) 845-8693 hm
(919) 572-3457 wk
Raleigh, North Carolina
apesa@bellsouth.net
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:07:48 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:52:33 -0300
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From: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>
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Hey, boys, just one question that crossed my mind:
Why can't the kernel do something like:
(consider a system w/ mirrowed disks using ccd)
if (main disk) fails then start using (mirror disk)
What - technically - prevents ccd/kernel/something else from being able to
do it ?
At 11:33 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ?
>>
>> Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ?
>
> Mirrored disks can be done with ccd.
>
> Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On
>Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file servers,
>but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks
>from the failed system to the working system, and assumption
>of the IP traffic, is difficult.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:18:49 1998
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To: freebsd@isvara.net
cc: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:08:45 GMT."
<34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:35:53 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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Questions regarding FreeBSD-current should be sent to the -current
mailing list. If you are planning on running -current, you should also
be subscribed to this list. If you were subscribed to this list, you
would know that there is a problem with the -current boot images that
has not yet been resolved.
Please be patient; there will be an announcement to -current as soon as
we have a solution.
> I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
> a weeks ago. I get the error:
> vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
> panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
>
> There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a
> few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops
> people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered
> quite important.
>
> Any responses/fixes?
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
> _____________________________________
> Daniel J Blueman
> BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester
> Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net
> Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
>
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:36:12 1998
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:03:30 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Capriotti <capriotti@geocities.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Disk mirroring (was: SFT)
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On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 19:52:33 -0300, Capriotti wrote:
> At 11:33 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ?
>>>
>>> Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ?
>>
>> Mirrored disks can be done with ccd.
>>
>> Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On
>> Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file servers,
>> but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks
>> from the failed system to the working system, and assumption
>> of the IP traffic, is difficult.
>
> Hey, boys, just one question that crossed my mind:
>
> Why can't the kernel do something like:
>
> (consider a system w/ mirrowed disks using ccd)
>
> if (main disk) fails then start using (mirror disk)
>
> What - technically - prevents ccd/kernel/something else from being able to
> do it ?
Nothing.
You've presumably missed some discussion on the matter in the -fs
list. Unfortunately, CCD does not recover at all gracefully from this
kind of situation. I'm currently writing a replacement for ccd which
will do this (sort of), amongst other things.
Why sort of? Because you wouldn't want to use one disk exclusively if
you have two. You'll share read accesses as evenly as possible across
the available spindles, and of course you must write to all of them.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 15:38:06 1998
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199802141735.MAA06202@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
In-Reply-To: <34E5C18D.928E3A8C@challenge.isvara.net> from "freebsd@isvara.net" at "Feb 14, 98 04:08:45 pm"
To: freebsd@isvara.net
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:35:13 -0500 (EST)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
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freebsd@isvara.net said:
> Hi,
> I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
> a weeks ago. I get the error:
> vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
> panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
>
> There is clearly a problem with the VM subsystem, and there have been a
> few messages posted here with people pointing this out. Since this stops
> people installing the latest freebsd-current, it could be considered
> quite important.
>
I'll try to look at it, but I am going to be very busy again next week.
If someone else gets a chance to look into it, it would be helpful.
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid,
jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:14:41 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:53:13 +0100
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
To: FreeBSD Hackers <hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
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According to freebsd@isvara.net:
> I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
> a weeks ago. I get the error:
> vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
> panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org
too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally
dug out an old 2.2.1 CD.
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #56: Fri Feb 6 21:36:56 CET 1998
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:14:46 1998
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Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org
Subject: x86 memory performance 'flaw' ?
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I just came across a site that claims that there is a design 'flaw'
that affects memory/cache performance for all recent x86 processors;
and provides a work-around. I'm interested in the opinions of the
wizards on this list. The URL is:
http://www.intelligentfirm.com/
Thanks,
-Pat
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:27:53 1998
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Message-ID: <19980215105720.23039@freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:57:20 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: x86 memory performance 'flaw' ?
References: <ML-3.3.887484634.5725.patl@asimov>
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On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 11:30:34 -0800, patl@phoenix.volant.org wrote:
> I just came across a site that claims that there is a design 'flaw'
> that affects memory/cache performance for all recent x86 processors;
> and provides a work-around. I'm interested in the opinions of the
> wizards on this list. The URL is:
>
> http://www.intelligentfirm.com/
This looks like the thing discovered by Georg Schnurer of c't
magazine. I'll try to dig out the issue and see what they thought of
it.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 16:46:35 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: some funny things
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On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm using the pcm audio driver together with my Terratec soundcard. I notice
> > two strange things:
> >
> > 1. at bootup the kernel detects the device as pcm1, and not pcm0 as is listed
> > in my kernel config file.
>
> This is normal; pcm0 is the statically configured device, pcm1 is the
> first PnP device.
I still find that to be at least a little bit annoying, but at least it
works. Oddly enough, my SB32 (according to the BIOS), probes as an SB16
PnP.
- alex
A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 19:50:06 1998
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Message-ID: <34E6661B.A5778FBA@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:50:55 -0500
From: "Arthur P. Pesa" <apesa@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: panic: general protection fault (one long line)
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I apologize for the dispicably formatted email. You're right, I probably
would tend to ignore it as well. I obviously did not intend my question
to be posed as a "one liner", and was unaware it appeared as such. I
will refrain from using the offending email software. However my
question remains:
On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 13:24:43 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote:
> Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several
months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on
2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the
install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during
the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several
months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my
time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt
Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive
Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same
panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide
drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet
card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy? I beleive
that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another ethernet card swap at
the moment. Following what is logged after the core dump:> syncing
disks...>
> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
> fault virtual address = 0x10
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
> syncing disks...
>
> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
> fault virtual address = 0x10
> fault code = supervisor read, page not present
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80
> code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b
> = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1
> processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0
> current process = Idle
> interrupt mask =
> panic: page fault
> Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode
> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000
> frame pointer = 0x10:0x0
> panic: general protection fault
> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
> syncing disks... done
Thank you. Pat
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 20:30:50 1998
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:58:59 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: "Arthur P. Pesa" <apesa@bellsouth.net>, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: panic: general protection fault (one long line)
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On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 22:50:55 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote:
> I apologize for the dispicably formatted email. You're right, I probably
> would tend to ignore it as well. I obviously did not intend my question
> to be posed as a "one liner", and was unaware it appeared as such. I
> will refrain from using the offending email software.
I think you can probably fix it. And Netscape can misbehave too :-)
> However my question remains:
> On Sat, 14 February 1998 at 13:24:43 -0500, Arthur P. Pesa wrote:
>> Hello, I have been encountering the following panic for several
> months. I have been running this particular machine since June '97 on
> 2.2.2-Release. I initially got a similar Fatal trap 12 during the
> install, the workaround was to disable cpu caching in the bios during
> the install, then go back afterwards and re-enable. For the last several
> months I have become more dedicated to configuring this machine as my
> time frees up. I have changed out the memory in hopes it was a corrupt
> Simm, no luck. The Mo. Board is an Octek Hippo with an Intel Overdrive
> Cpu, it originally had an Intel 486 dx 4 /100. I seemed to get the same
> panic with either CPU. It has a Promise IDE controller with 2 ide
> drives, 1.6G and 540 MB seagate. It also has a 3Com 3C509 III ethernet
> card, I do remember seeing that the ep0 interface was buggy?
A lot of people say that, but I've been using the driver for 2½ years
now, and I haven't had any problems.
> I beleive that was on www.freebsd.com. I do not have another
> ethernet card swap at the moment. Following what is logged after the
> core dump:
>
>> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
>> fault virtual address = 0x10
>> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
>> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
>> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
>> syncing disks...
>>
>> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
>> fault virtual address = 0x10
>> fault code = supervisor read, page not present
>> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf012e2e6
>> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e70
>> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5e80
>> code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b
>> = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1
>> processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0
>> current process = Idle
>> interrupt mask =
>> panic: page fault
>> Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode
>> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01afe35
>> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d6000
>> frame pointer = 0x10:0x0
>> panic: general protection fault
>> stack pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5ea4
>> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf01d5eb4
>> syncing disks... done
Do these all come at once? That's unusual. Anyway, what we need here
is a dump to look at. Do you have one? Is the machine set up for
one? If not, set it up and see if the dump will happen then. It
would also help if you have a debug kernel. See
http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook264.html#599for further
details.
Greg
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 22:59:28 1998
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From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Message-Id: <199802150658.XAA02323@usr02.primenet.com>
Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:58:57 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <19980214195313.45645@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 14, 98 07:53:13 pm
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> > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
> > a weeks ago. I get the error:
> > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
> > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
>
> I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org
> too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally
> dug out an old 2.2.1 CD.
Since John is snowed in...
Is this "freeing free page" or "freeing busy page"?
Are you using CCD?
Are you mounting async?
Are you trying to use union mounts, or any other FS other than FFS,
such as NFS, MSDOSFS, etc.?
Have you compiled your kernel -g, then copied it, "strip -d"'ed the
copy, and run on the stripped copy until you got a panic, so you could
do a source level debug of the kernel code in question?
Have you traversed the scheduler queues in the kernel debugger to see
if the problem is really a process on two queues?
Is vm_page_freechk_and_unqueue() (since it's probably "freeing ???? page")
being called from vm_page_free() or vm_page_free_zero()?
When you look at the vm_object structure for the object that's failing,
is the "type" member OBJT_DEFAULT, OBJT_SWAP, OBJT_VNODE, OBJT_DEVICE, or
OBJT_DEAD? If OBJT_VNODE, is the backing_object member cast to a vnode
a device vnode, a directory, a file, or VNONE, or what?
I'd ask for the -g kernel and dump image, but they are far in excess
of my account quota; unless you can put them up for FTP somewhere, and
I can pull them down on a faster-than-modem link, you're going to need
to go looking for yourself. Do *NOT* mail them to me!
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 23:11:48 1998
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To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: VM messed: vm_page_free panic problem
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:58:57 GMT."
<199802150658.XAA02323@usr02.primenet.com>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:10:31 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> > > I'm experiencing a problem with the freebsd-current bootdisks since
> > > a weeks ago. I get the error:
> > > vm_page_free: pindex(12), busy(0), PG_BUSY(0), hold(0)
> > > panic: vm_page_free: freeing page
> >
> > I get the same problem from recent bootdisk taken from current.freebsd.org
> > too. Gets frustrating when you try to find a working boot disk. I finally
> > dug out an old 2.2.1 CD.
>
> Since John is snowed in...
>
>
> Is this "freeing free page" or "freeing busy page"?
This is "the setup of the 4MB page is screwed". Bruce committed a
change that was supposed to fix it a day or two ago, but it doesn't
seem to work.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 14 23:45:25 1998
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To: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, cjs@portal.ca
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:54:15 PST."
<199802122154.NAA04198@dingo.cdrom.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:15:03 +0530
From: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
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>>>> "Mike Smith" <mike@smith.net.au> writes
mike> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
Yes, that may not be such a good idea.
Miracles do happen; e.g:- the McLibel case (http://www.mcspotlight.org/),
but to bet on such a thing wouldn't be wise :).
mike> - Give in.
Which is what FreeBSD seems to be doing. Ok, boggle and tetris are
"just games", but thats not the point.
mike> So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that
mike> renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable.
Yes, renaming is an alternative, as is moving affected parts to a site
elsewhere in the world. US law does not apply everywhere in the world
(yet).
cjs> action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark
cjs> owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue
cjs> them if they refuse.
The necessity for perennial vigilance seems to be an artifact of the US legal
system. This is not true for other legal systems, where a trademark can
be "owned" without so much hassle.
FreeBSD folks, you are seeing just the tip of the iceberg. Did you know
that *a huge number* words and phrases in the english language have been
trademarked or servicemarked on way or the other in the US? Large companies
in the US spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in trademark searches.
The process of locating an unencumbered word or phrase takes months and keeps
getting more expensive as time goes by. Choosing a new product name or
trademark is risk-prone enough that a few companies require VP level approval
for the decision.
By a first estimate, 50%-75% of the FreeBSD source tree could be (read: will
require to be) litigated against on the basis of "trademark violations."
What are you going to do?
jkh> It's the "affiliation" with ftp.cdrom.com and the bazillion search
jkh> engines out there empowering lawyers like Hasbro's daily in finding
It may be wise to disallow WWW indexing/access to the source tree. I
suspect that if it isn't visible within two mouse clicks, you're probably
safe.
Koshy
<koshy@india.hp.com> My Personal Opinions.
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From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 15 00:02:14 1998
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To: A Joseph Koshy <koshy@india.hp.com>
cc: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, cjs@portal.ca
Subject: Re: General policy on trademark violations
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:15:03 +0530."
<199802150744.XAA22883@palrel1.hp.com>
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:58:19 -0800
From: Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
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> >>>> "Mike Smith" <mike@smith.net.au> writes
>
> mike> - Fight it in court. This is only an option if a donor with a few
>
> Yes, that may not be such a good idea.
>
> Miracles do happen; e.g:- the McLibel case (http://www.mcspotlight.org/),
> but to bet on such a thing wouldn't be wise :).
Yes. I can just see the core team beggaring themselves for the next
two or three years over the game of Boggle.
> mike> - Give in.
>
> Which is what FreeBSD seems to be doing. Ok, boggle and tetris are
> "just games", but thats not the point.
Why is it that people think that this is such a black and white case?
Anyone would think that this was a Hollywood production. Wake up and
smell the catfood; this is *real*life*.
The name "Boggle" BELONGS to Hasbro. You can pule all you like, but
ultimately they have the law on their side. "Fighting" this might be
terribly dramatic, but it's also terribly stupid.
> mike> So you can see where we have to go. Terry raised the issue that
> mike> renaming, rather than just removing, things would be desirable.
>
> Yes, renaming is an alternative, as is moving affected parts to a site
> elsewhere in the world. US law does not apply everywhere in the world
> (yet).
Fine. Take the parts, put them somewhere else. I think you'll find
that trademark law is prettymuch the same everywhere.
> cjs> action to stop it, he risks loosing the trademark. Thus, a trademark
> cjs> owner is basically obliged to ask misusers to desist, and even sue
> cjs> them if they refuse.
>
> The necessity for perennial vigilance seems to be an artifact of the US legal
> system. This is not true for other legal systems, where a trademark can
> be "owned" without so much hassle.
So? The ultimate result is the same; the name belongs to someone else,
and we can't use it.
> FreeBSD folks, you are seeing just the tip of the iceberg. Did you know
> that *a huge number* words and phrases in the english language have been
> trademarked or servicemarked on way or the other in the US? Large companies
> in the US spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in trademark searches.
Fortunately, you appear not to quite have grasped the way that
contemporary trademark law works. In addition to the name matching,
the *category* has to match too.
If I own the trademark "grep", for my brand of unique fractal-pattern
rubber gloves, I am not in a situation where the grep(1) utility's name
conflicts. If I own the service mark "NCR Control" for my cash
register repair business, likewise.
There aren't too many consumer products whose category space conflicts
with FreeBSD. Games are one of the few, and we can happily live
without them.
> By a first estimate, 50%-75% of the FreeBSD source tree could be (read: will
> require to be) litigated against on the basis of "trademark violations."
Wrong. Not only wrong, but so completely wrong to almost certainly be
intentionally inflammatory.
> What are you going to do?
Nothing. I didn't flinch during the last planetary alignment either.
--
\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith
\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au
\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org
\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com
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