From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 02:58:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:58:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA14702 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:58:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1024576; 22 Feb 98 10:41 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0y6YoT-00024D-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:39:13 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802212106.WAA03562@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:39:12 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at post.mail.demon.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21-Feb-98 Luigi Rizzo wrote: >> that was the reason for my third question :) >> But i still want to know what should i target to -- i believe tk80... >> >> You should ideally have them use tcl/tk81. I plan to start changing ports >> to >> use tk81, I've just been really busy during this past week. > > that's ok for -current, but for -stable, consider that 2.2.6 is > coming out relatively soon. it would be a shame not to complete > the change before the release and have yet another tk version to > carry... > > in other words, either one first moves all tk80 ports to tk81 (which > is fine, hopefully the differences should not be too big) or it is > better to start from the smallest set among tk41 and tk42 ports > and move them to tk80 (might not be trivial... as shown by the > recent problem i was having with vat, the code might compile but > still not run as desired). But there is a bit of a problem with the compatiblilty of the code Tcl and C) itself to run under the different version of Tcl. For example anything using itcl cannot yet run under Tcl8x because itcl doesn't work under Tcl8 yet. Effectivly you are suggesting that we update the Tcl package itself to a new version of Tcl on behalf of the original author. Is this wise? > > in any case the last word should go to the release engineer... > > luigi --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 05:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26587 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA26580 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA04435; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:26:11 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802221126.MAA04435@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk (Duncan Barclay) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:26:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com In-Reply-To: from "Duncan Barclay" at Feb 22, 98 10:38:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > in other words, either one first moves all tk80 ports to tk81 (which > > is fine, hopefully the differences should not be too big) or it is ... > But there is a bit of a problem with the compatiblilty of the code Tcl > and C) itself to run under the different version of Tcl. For example > anything using itcl cannot yet run under Tcl8x because itcl doesn't work > under Tcl8 yet. Effectivly you are suggesting that we update the Tcl > package itself to a new version of Tcl on behalf of the original author. right... > Is this wise? may not be wise, but then let's leave each port use the tk version it was released for -- it is less work, less risk of introducing bugs, and no difference for the system since you still end up with the whole spectrum of tk versions in your system Unfortunately some useful ports are not kept up to date by the authors. I hit this problem with multimedia tools (vat, vic, sdr, nte, ...) each of them using a different vintage of tk depending on the year they were released. Some of these ports were updated to use the newer tk (e.g. vat/vic), some were not. I understand that there might be incompatibilities and the upgrade might require some work, but then it make no sense to upgrade only a few ports, it would be less work (and less risk of introducing new bugs) to let each package use its native release of tk. luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 07:37:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA05874 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from devet@adv.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 15529 on Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:37:40 GMT; id PAA15529 efrom: devet@adv.IAEhv.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: (from devet@localhost) by adv.IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA24678; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:37:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:37:19 +0100 (CET) From: Arjan de Vet Message-Id: <199802221537.QAA24678@adv.IAEhv.nl> To: eculp@ver1.telmex.net.mx Subject: Re: Compile squid1.2beta15 with pthreads/libc_r on FreeBSD X-Newsgroups: list.squid.users In-Reply-To: <34EF9C3E.6923E7B5@ver1.telmex.net.mx> References: <199802212245.UAA05007@srv1-bsb.gns.com.br> Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven, the Netherlands Cc: squid-users@nlanr.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <34EF9C3E.6923E7B5@ver1.telmex.net.mx> you write: >Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: >> >> Dear Ed, >> >> > What do I need to compile squid1.2beta15 --enable-async-io >> > under FreeBSD Current. >> > >> > I haven't been able to compile it. It dies en aiops.c. >> >> The source file aiops.c requires pthreads functions. >> I am not sure about current, yet under stable and release: >> You need to compile FreeBSD libc_r that supports the MIT pthreads >> standard. Make sure you have the libraries sources installed. >> cd /usr/src/lib/libc_r && make depend && make && make install >> >> There you have it. Try configuring again. >> >That worked fine and now I have the libc_r libraries. Thanks alot, I >never >realized that they weren't built automatically with a make world. You can define WANT_LIBC_R=yes in /etc/make.conf >That isn't my only problem. It looks like there are some include files >that don't exist or aren't being found. I'll keep at it. Thanks Again. I also did some experiments with getting squid 1.2beta15 to compile on FreeBSD-stable. Indeed some include stuff is missing. I found an extra pthread_private.h file in /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread which contains these missing things. However just #include'ing it gave some strange errors, so I made a local pthread_local.h containing just the stuff I needed: pthread_local.h: struct sched_param { int sched_priority; void *no_data; }; /* * Scheduling definitions. */ enum schedparam_policy { SCHED_RR, SCHED_IO, SCHED_FIFO, SCHED_OTHER }; The following patch was needed to get it to compile: --- ../../squid-1.2.beta15/src/aiops.c Mon Feb 2 22:16:16 1998 +++ aiops.c Sun Feb 22 16:28:32 1998 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ /* - * $Id: aiops.c,v 1.7 1998/02/02 21:16:16 wessels Exp $ + * $Id: aiops.c,v 1.8 1998/02/17 23:05:38 wessels Exp $ * * DEBUG: section 43 AIOPS * AUTHOR: Stewart Forster @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include "pthread_local.h" #include #include #include @@ -141,12 +142,14 @@ return; pthread_attr_init(&globattr); +#ifndef __FreeBSD__ pthread_attr_setscope(&globattr, PTHREAD_SCOPE_SYSTEM); globsched.sched_priority = 1; self = pthread_self(); pthread_setschedparam(self, SCHED_OTHER, &globsched); globsched.sched_priority = 2; pthread_attr_setschedparam(&globattr, &globsched); +#endif /* Create threads and get them to sit in their wait loop */ This makes it compile, but not working yet. I'm Cc:-ing freebsd-hackers (so be careful with replies), maybe someone there knows better ways to get Squid 1.2beta to compile with libc_r. I recently saw some other applications mentioned over there which do work with libc_r successfully. There's also work being done on async IO in the FreeBSD kernel (3.0), haven't tried that yet. Arjan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 07:51:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:51:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [194.226.32.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07453 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:49:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.8.5-MVC-230497/8.8.5) id VAA09052 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:49:13 +0600 (OSK) Received: from Kev.lab321.ru(194.226.33.68) via SMTP by ns.lab321.ru, id smtpd009043; Sun Feb 22 21:49:12 1998 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Kev.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA00623 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:48:43 +0600 (OS) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:48:43 +0600 (OS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IDE ZIP iomega drive under 3.0-current Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Sirs ! I have troubles with mounts of IDE iomega. Below dmesg output. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[cut]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xffffffff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16, sleep-hack wd0: 1030MB (2109744 sectors), 2232 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-32, sleep-hack wd1: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2240 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xffffffff on isa wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16, sleep-hack wd2: 696MB (1427328 sectors), 1510 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[cut]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD looks iomega as ATAPI cdrom. fdisk wcd0a says: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ fdisk: Can't get disk parameters on /dev/rwcd0a; supplying dummy ones ******* Working on device /dev/rwcd0a ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=1 heads=1 sectors/track=1 (1 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=1 heads=1 sectors/track=1 (1 blks/cyl) Media sector size is 512 Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 1 is: The data for partition 2 is: The data for partition 3 is: The data for partition 4 is: sysid 6,(Primary 'big' DOS (> 32MB)) start 32, size 196576 (95 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 95/ sector 32/ head 63 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And I cann't access to partition 4. Are there anyone uses IDE ZIP drives ? Thanks for advices. -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 09:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16387 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18084; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:50:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Luigi Rizzo cc: Duncan Barclay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@james.hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... In-Reply-To: <199802221126.MAA04435@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > under Tcl8 yet. Effectivly you are suggesting that we update the Tcl > > package itself to a new version of Tcl on behalf of the original author. > > right... Yes. > > Is this wise? Yes. > may not be wise, but then let's leave each port use the tk version it > was released for -- it is less work, less risk of introducing bugs, and Some of them were intended for tcl74. In a lot of cases it's just a matter of changing "75" with "80". For some, it may be a matter of updating the port to a newer version. Where it does involve patches, you are encouraged to submit your patches to the author. If it doesn't work under FreeBSD with the standard Tcl/Tk that FreeBSD uses, it's a porting problem. Just as if a port uses gmake instead of pmake. Sometimes it's easiest for us to correctly fix the problem with patches, sometimes it's easier to load an emulation module (gmake, in the last example). -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 09:59:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17017 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th (pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th [158.108.32.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16999 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th) Received: from localhost (stt@localhost) by pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA18471 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:59:29 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:59:29 +0700 (ICT) From: Sunthiti Patchararungruang To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Signal 11 problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Everybody, I have written a C program which has a function that need 10 arguments. I cannot run this program because the signal-11 occured when I call this function. However, when I reduce the number of arguments the program can be executed without error. I tried to change eliminated arguments to check which one causes the error but the program still completely operate. Therefore, I conclude that the problem come from stack management in FreeBSD. What should I do? Sorry in some mis-syntax of english. I have an example to explain the problem Ex. [Error one] test (int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int) .... main () { // Error Signal 11 test (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k); } [No Error] test (int, int, int, int, int) .... main ( { test (a, b, c, d, e); test (f, g, h, i, j); test (a, b, k, d, e); } Best Regards, Sunthiti Patchararungruang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 10:07:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18675 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA06017; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:04:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:04:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Greg Lehey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19980222175710.04357@freebie.lemis.com> <199802220738.XAA06227@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980222183233.41134@freebie.lemis.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike, back to the discussion of policy. vinum needs some way to > associate the buffer returned to the b_iodone function with its > internal requests. CCD does this by including the buffer header in > the internal request. The obvious alternative is to use one of > b_driver[12] to point to the other information. The trouble is that > scsi_strategy seems to use both of them. Consider a few > possibilities: It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another instance. Struct bufs are pervasive and keeping their size small enough to be efficiently allocated is important. I'd have to go look to see how close we are to a power of two in size right now, but even if removing these fields doesn't shrink us down a malloc bucket size, it will give us room to add things like pointers for buffer chaining for larger than 64k I/O requests. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 10:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24017 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24009 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29035; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:51:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:51:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Sunthiti Patchararungruang wrote: > Sorry in some mis-syntax of english. I have an example to explain The English was good, however your email address in the From: header of the message is wrong. I grabbed stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th from the Envelope-From: of your message. > Ex. > [Error one] > test (int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int) This works correctly when I try it under 2.2.5-STABLE from Jan. 7. What version of FreeBSD? Have you actually tried a test program which _only_ calls the test() function? -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 11:13:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26292 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:13:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26279 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:13:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00737; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:13:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199802221913.OAA00737@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-Reply-To: <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Feb 22, 98 11:04:14 am" To: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:13:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin T. Gibbs said: > > It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The > CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last > reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another > instance. Struct bufs are pervasive and keeping their size small > enough to be efficiently allocated is important. I'd have to go > look to see how close we are to a power of two in size right now, > but even if removing these fields doesn't shrink us down a malloc > bucket size, it will give us room to add things like pointers for > buffer chaining for larger than 64k I/O requests. > Normally, we use statically allocated buffers (out of the p(hysical)buf queue or the normal vfs_bio queue.) Except in the case of getccdbuf and other schemes that can be deadlock prone, we generally don't allocate buffers in a dynamic (and slightly more dangerous fashion.) The restriction of power-of-two should probably go away with our allocator(s) anyway. It is probably a good idea to use getpbuf rather than getccdbuf or whatever so that whatever evil that might exist in our buffer implementation can be hidden. Our allocators need to be cache-line-savvy, not pow-2-alignment-savvy, if we need to optimize performance. The problems with getccdbuf aren't about alignment, but resource deadlock issues, and also data transparency issues. Eventually, we need to more coherently address the issues of resource deadlocks, but right now, the best thing to do is to avoid dynamic allocations for things like buffer headers, and make sure that there is enough of them, or be *extremely* careful about their usage (using reservation or other primitive scheme until we can adopt a better system-wide mechanism.) (That is one reason why swap-paging with CCD or a UFS file is not a good idea, as of now. Depending on vnode-paging is also problematical, but in practice much less of a problem.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 11:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27341 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:21:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27327 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:21:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00386; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:20:25 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199802221920.UAA00386@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-Reply-To: <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Feb 22, 98 11:04:14 am" To: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:20:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Justin T. Gibbs who wrote: > > Mike, back to the discussion of policy. vinum needs some way to > > associate the buffer returned to the b_iodone function with its > > internal requests. CCD does this by including the buffer header in > > the internal request. The obvious alternative is to use one of > > b_driver[12] to point to the other information. The trouble is that > > scsi_strategy seems to use both of them. Consider a few > > possibilities: > > It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The > CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last > reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another > instance. It is used in the wfd driver too... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 11:23:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27577 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07939; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:21:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802221921.LAA07939@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:04:14 MST." <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:21:29 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The > CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last > reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another > instance. Ugh. How else is a driver supposed to attach extra information to a buf or group of bufs? The b_driver field was the only clean way I could implement request fragmentation in the wfd driver. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 11:47:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00127 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00117 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08014; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:42:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802221942.LAA08014@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:59:29 +0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:42:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Dear Everybody, Dear plaintiff; please fix your mail headers so that we can respond to you. > I have written a C program which has a function that need 10 > arguments. I cannot run this program because the signal-11 occured when I > call this function. However, when I reduce the number of arguments the > program can be executed without error. I tried to change eliminated > arguments to check which one causes the error but the program still > completely operate. Therefore, I conclude that the problem come from stack > management in FreeBSD. What should I do? Debug your program. Oddly enough, there are lots of people using FreeBSD, and innumerable functions taking more than 10 arguments. Your conclusion is bogus; did you really believe that in all these years, nobody had ever tried this before? You should start by applying the debugger (gdb) to your program and the core file produced when it crashes. If you build your program with the '-g' flag you will be able to determine the source line on which the fault occurs. (This may not be the location of the bug itself, of course.) > Sorry in some mis-syntax of english. I have an example to explain > the problem Your syntax is fine, but your example is nonfunctional. Here is an improved example, which compiles and runs just fine. #include int test(int a0, int a1, int a2, int a3, int a4, int a5, int a6, int a7, int a10, int a11, int a12, int a13, int a14, int a15, int a16, int a17, int a20, int a21, int a22, int a23, int a24, int a25, int a26, int a27, int a30, int a31, int a32, int a33, int a34, int a35, int a36, int a37, int a40, int a41, int a42, int a43, int a44, int a45, int a46, int a47, int a50, int a51, int a52, int a53, int a54, int a55, int a56, int a57, int a60, int a61, int a62, int a63, int a64, int a65, int a66, int a67, int a70, int a71, int a72, int a73, int a74, int a75, int a76, int a77) { return(a0 + a1 + a2 + a3 + a4 + a5 + a6 + a7 + a10 + a11 + a12 + a13 + a14 + a15 + a16 + a17 + a20 + a21 + a22 + a23 + a24 + a25 + a26 + a27 + a30 + a31 + a32 + a33 + a34 + a35 + a36 + a37 + a40 + a41 + a42 + a43 + a44 + a45 + a46 + a47 + a50 + a51 + a52 + a53 + a54 + a55 + a56 + a57 + a60 + a61 + a62 + a63 + a64 + a65 + a66 + a67 + a70 + a71 + a72 + a73 + a74 + a75 + a76 + a77); } void main(void) { printf("Test result : %d\n" , test(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77)); } dingo:/tmp>cc -o arg arg.c dingo:/tmp>./arg Test result : 2464 -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02715 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02698 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id VAA17983 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:00:05 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA04473; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:39:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980222203930.61911@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:39:30 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... References: <98Feb21.221405pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <98Feb21.221405pst.177476@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>; from Bill Fenner on Sat, Feb 21, 1998 at 10:14:03PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 21, 1998 at 10:14:03PM -0800, Bill Fenner wrote: > On 21-Feb-98 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > 3) is there a simple way to list all ports which depend on a given > > package (e.g. tk4.1, tk4.2 etc...) again to have an idea of what to > > fix. > > awk -F'|' '$9 ~ /tk-4/ {print $2}' INDEX 30 ports. -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:16:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.orcus.lum (beryllium.shocking.com [204.119.204.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA03290 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from balger@ecst.csuchico.edu) From: balger@ecst.csuchico.edu Received: (qmail 4446 invoked from network); 22 Feb 1998 20:17:37 -0000 Received: from alecto.orcus.lum (192.168.6.66) by cerberus.orcus.lum with SMTP; 22 Feb 1998 20:17:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9963 invoked by uid 500); 22 Feb 1998 20:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <19980222121304.24974@ecst.csuchico.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:13:04 -0800 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Cyrix Tweaks References: <199802211155.RAA18542@tarang.hss.hns.com> <34EFA6B8.1E6A5DCD@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <34EFA6B8.1E6A5DCD@challenge.isvara.net>; from freebsd@isvara.net on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 04:16:56AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This `cyrix optimizer' catches my curiosity. If what it does is > documented, or better yet, if you have its source available; I would > suggest you to integrate its optimizations into the FreeBSD kernel. If > I had a cyrix CPU, I would do it. hmm, just curious, why does this need to be in the kernel? at least for the 6x86 ( which is what i'm running ), most (if not all?) of the cyrix optimization can be done in user space since you are just tweaking the configuration registers. it is pretty easy to write a userland program that sets the registers to the desired value (open /dev/io , {read,write}_cyrix_reg ). i have a 6x86MX 200 that is working fine with such a setup. balger@ecst.csuchico.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:23:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:23:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04785 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:23:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08133; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:19:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802222019.MAA08133@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eugeny Kuzakov cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IDE ZIP iomega drive under 3.0-current In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:48:43 +0600." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:19:27 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have troubles with mounts of IDE iomega. Just for reference, the drive is ATAPI, not IDE. > Below dmesg output. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[cut]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xffffffff on isa > wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-16, sleep-hack > wd0: 1030MB (2109744 sectors), 2232 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , DMA, 32-bit, multi-block-32, sleep-hack > wd1: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2240 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0xffffffff on isa > wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): , 32-bit, multi-block-16, sleep-hack > wd2: 696MB (1427328 sectors), 1510 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S > wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[cut]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > FreeBSD looks iomega as ATAPI cdrom. Not there it's not; it's found as an ATAPI device, but nobody claims it. > fdisk wcd0a says: You can't fdisk a CDROM, especially one that doesn't exist. > And I cann't access to partition 4. > Are there anyone uses IDE ZIP drives ? The ATAPI Zip and LS-120 drives are supported in -current, -stable and the upcoming 2.2.6 release. This includes full support for all media, media commands, etc. with the specific excusion of low-level formatting which is achievable only with the vendor-supplied software. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:26:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA05127 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.numachi.COM) Received: (qmail 12495 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Feb 1998 20:25:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19980222152502.06434@numachi.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:25:03 -0500 From: Brian Reichert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th Subject: Signal 11 problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12473 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Feb 1998 20:21:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980222152150.11604@numachi.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:21:50 -0500 From: Brian Reichert To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Sunthiti Patchararungruang on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:59:29AM +0700 Return-Receipt-To: reichert@numachi.com On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:59:29AM +0700, Sunthiti Patchararungruang wrote: > Dear Everybody, > > I have written a C program which has a function that need 10 > arguments. I cannot run this program because the signal-11 occured when I > call this function. > test (int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int, int) > main () > { > // Error Signal 11 I presume the C++ comment is a red herring. :) > test (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k); > } [...] > main ( > { > test (a, b, c, d, e); > test (f, g, h, i, j); > test (a, b, k, d, e); > } Well, you declared the function as using ten arguments, then you only gave it five. How does your function 'know' that it's only been given five arguments? If it tries to make use an argument you didn't give it, it could easily leap off into nowhere... If you were to build your code with gcc -Wall, it would warn you about not handing in the right number of arguments... If you're trying to write a function that handles a variable number of arguments, look at stdarg(3). > Best Regards, > Sunthiti Patchararungruang -- Brian Reichert reichert@numachi.com Current daytime number: (617)-873-4337 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:34:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:34:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06476 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA04874; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:00:07 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802221900.UAA04874@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... To: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:00:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@james.hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com In-Reply-To: from "Tim Vanderhoek" at Feb 22, 98 12:50:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Where it does involve patches, you are encouraged to submit your > patches to the author. If it doesn't work under FreeBSD with the > standard Tcl/Tk that FreeBSD uses, it's a porting problem. Just > as if a port uses gmake instead of pmake. Sometimes it's easiest > for us to correctly fix the problem with patches, sometimes it's > easier to load an emulation module (gmake, in the last example). yes i know, i just wanted to point out the problem since yesterday compiling 3 ports i got tk8, tk42 and tk41 in a row, and i am not sure people was following a strategy on this. unlike make/gmake, the bloat with tk is very large since it installs a ton of files, and emulation is not really a ppossibility (or, at least, unless tk has a backward compatible mode... but i doubt it.. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:38:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:38:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06931 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26013; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:46:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980222154620.13066@vmunix.com> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:46:20 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: patl@phoenix.volant.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Javascript for project page? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from patl@phoenix.volant.org on Sat, Feb 21, 1998 at 09:21:25AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 21, 1998 at 09:21:25AM -0800, patl@phoenix.volant.org wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Mark Mayo wrote: > > >Hi all. I've been coding up a prototype "FreeBSD Project Database" > > >page, and I'm seeking opinions on if I should use Javascript.. > > >Javascript lets me do some handy error checking on the client side > > >before requests and such get sent into the database server, as well > > >as opening up some better design possibilities... I'm concerned however > > >that the use of Javascript will limit the number of people that can > > >use the site. > > > > > >Opinions? Is *everybody* using Netscape now, or do a significant > > >... > > I'd go for an intermediate solution. Use the JavaScript for error > checking; but design the page so that it still works without the > JavaScript portions. > > Remember, even with JavaScript doing error checking, the server > side forms handling should -always- do it's own error checking. > There is no guarantee that the data actually came from your form... Indeed. That's my strategy for now: do all the error checking on the server side, since it has to be done anyhow.. Afterwards, if I want to get fancier, I'll do some Javascript checking as well which won't affect the streamlined browsers, but will get Javascript people some extra features (i.e. better, instant error feedback..) > > > 'Better design possibilities' is a vague and covers a lot of possible > territory. Would PHP help you retain some of them? Since it is a Yes, I'm coding a good portion in PHP, with some extra goodies in Perl where PHP just isn't enough.. :-) cya, -Mark > > -Pat -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 12:47:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08345 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08316 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08250; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:44:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802222044.MAA08250@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hoek@hwcn.org (Tim Vanderhoek), dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@james.hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:00:06 +0100." <199802221900.UAA04874@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:44:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > unlike make/gmake, the bloat with tk is very large since it installs a > ton of files, and emulation is not really a ppossibility (or, at least, > unless tk has a backward compatible mode... but i doubt it.. Just to head this crap off right here, the "bloat" for a single tk version is about one megabyte. Let's contrast this with thirty-odd megabytes for emacs or more than sixty for xemacs. Looking at it from another angle, it costs you about ten US cents per tk version, as opposed to about six dollars for Xemacs. This is turning into another Boggle-esque argument. 8( -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 13:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th (pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th [158.108.32.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12467 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th) Received: from localhost (stt@localhost) by pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA19531 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:12:05 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:12:05 +0700 (ICT) From: Sunthiti Patchararungruang To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem In-Reply-To: <199802221942.LAA08014@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Dear Everybody, > > > > I have written a C program which has a function that need 10 > > arguments. I cannot run this program because the signal-11 occured when I > > call this function. However, when I reduce the number of arguments the > > program can be executed without error. I tried to change eliminated > > arguments to check which one causes the error but the program still > > completely operate. Therefore, I conclude that the problem come from stack > > management in FreeBSD. What should I do? > > Debug your program. Oddly enough, there are lots of people using > FreeBSD, and innumerable functions taking more than 10 arguments. > > Your conclusion is bogus; did you really believe that in all these > years, nobody had ever tried this before? > > You should start by applying the debugger (gdb) to your program and the > core file produced when it crashes. If you build your program with the > '-g' flag you will be able to determine the source line on which the > fault occurs. (This may not be the location of the bug itself, of > course.) > Sorry about my useless example. Here is the real problem. I cut it from wu-ftpd 2.4. All variables are proved to be correct. I use FreeBSD2.2.5. sprintf(msg, "%.24s %d %s %d %s %c %s %c %c %s ftp %d %s\n", ctime(&curtime), xfertime, remotehost, byte_count, namebuf, (type == TYPE_A) ? 'a' : 'b', opt_string(options), 'o', anonymous ? 'a' : 'r', anonymous ? guestpw : pw->pw_name, authenticated, authenticated ? authuser : "*" ); However, if I rewrite it as the following, the program now operates correctly. sprintf(tmsg, "%.24s %d %s %d\n", ctime(&curtime), xfertime, remotehost, byte_count ); strcat (tmsg, namebuf); sprintf(msg, "%s %c %s %c %c %s ftp %d %s\n", tmsg, (type == TYPE_A) ? 'a' : 'b', opt_string(options), 'o', anonymous ? 'a' : 'r', anonymous ? guestpw : pw->pw_name, authenticated, authenticated ? authuser : "*" ); Best Regards, Sunthiti Patchararungruang To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 13:45:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:45:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18346 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08454; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:44:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802222144.NAA08454@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:12:05 +0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:44:21 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > You should start by applying the debugger (gdb) to your program and the > > core file produced when it crashes. If you build your program with the > > '-g' flag you will be able to determine the source line on which the > > fault occurs. (This may not be the location of the bug itself, of > > course.) > > Sorry about my useless example. Here is the real problem. I cut it > from wu-ftpd 2.4. All variables are proved to be correct. I use > FreeBSD2.2.5. Have you tried attaching the debugger? What does it say? What are the actual contents of the variables (what do you mean by "proved correct"?) Can you please provide a compilable example that demonstrates the problem? Note that the wu-ftpd works for everyone else. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 13:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18744; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA19196; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:29 -0800 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:29 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jordan Hubbard Subject: VFATFS Status Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Heya folks, We tried the Luoqi patch on ftp.freebsd.org for vfatfs, and the following missive from my test subject is the result. These aren't the same as the ones in -current. Our results are included below. (There is probably something else up with the ZIP drive, but I surmise we should be able to read the Win95 partition. I wasn't present for this experiment so I can't say exactly what transpired.) I know Jordan is looking for results on this, maybe in part as a candidate for -STABLE. If I can find a version of these that apply to -STABLE, I'm willing to give it a try. If I grab the -CURRENT msdosfs, is there any hope I can get it to compile in -STABLE? We can give it a try here... Thanks, Brian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 12:26:45 -0800 To: Brian Handy Subject: Re: VFAT? No joy. I made the patch, it didn't complain. I re-made the kernel, no complaints that I noticed and it boots OK (also changed some kernel options, mostly removing a few obvious things like CPU386). But if I try to mount wd0 or wd3 (where I deduce the Zip drive is), I get invalid arg messages except occassionally I get hard read errors on the Zip and the light goes on the drive. Without the -t msdos, it kicks me off with a different error (bad zero block or somesuch, I can jot these down if it would be useful). Mounting floppies with the -t msdos switch does work so I don't think it was just the wine last night. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 13:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22463 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22453 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10038; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:55:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199802222155.QAA10038@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem In-Reply-To: from Sunthiti Patchararungruang at "Feb 23, 98 04:12:05 am" To: stt@TCP (Sunthiti Patchararungruang) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:55:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Take a look at 'byte_count.' It is of type off_t which is a long long. You need to use %qd for items of type 'long long'. Since *BSD supports files > 4GB, that was a needed change. Many other OSes don't support large files, and therefore this is a minor compatibility nit that one often needs to be aware of. Sunthiti Patchararungruang said: > > On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Dear Everybody, > > > > > > > I have written a C program which has a function that need 10 > > > arguments. I cannot run this program because the signal-11 occured when I > > > call this function. However, when I reduce the number of arguments the > > > program can be executed without error. I tried to change eliminated > > > arguments to check which one causes the error but the program still > > > completely operate. Therefore, I conclude that the problem come from stack > > > management in FreeBSD. What should I do? > > > > Debug your program. Oddly enough, there are lots of people using > > FreeBSD, and innumerable functions taking more than 10 arguments. > > > > Your conclusion is bogus; did you really believe that in all these > > years, nobody had ever tried this before? > > > > You should start by applying the debugger (gdb) to your program and the > > core file produced when it crashes. If you build your program with the > > '-g' flag you will be able to determine the source line on which the > > fault occurs. (This may not be the location of the bug itself, of > > course.) > > > > > Sorry about my useless example. Here is the real problem. I cut it > from wu-ftpd 2.4. All variables are proved to be correct. I use > FreeBSD2.2.5. > > sprintf(msg, "%.24s %d %s %d %s %c %s %c %c %s ftp %d %s\n", > ctime(&curtime), > xfertime, > remotehost, > byte_count, > namebuf, > (type == TYPE_A) ? 'a' : 'b', > opt_string(options), > 'o', > anonymous ? 'a' : 'r', > anonymous ? guestpw : pw->pw_name, > authenticated, > authenticated ? authuser : "*" > ); > > However, if I rewrite it as the following, the program now > operates correctly. > > sprintf(tmsg, "%.24s %d %s %d\n", > ctime(&curtime), > xfertime, > remotehost, > byte_count > ); > strcat (tmsg, namebuf); > sprintf(msg, "%s %c %s %c %c %s ftp %d %s\n", > tmsg, > (type == TYPE_A) ? 'a' : 'b', > opt_string(options), > 'o', > anonymous ? 'a' : 'r', > anonymous ? guestpw : pw->pw_name, > authenticated, > authenticated ? authuser : "*" > ); > > > Best Regards, > Sunthiti Patchararungruang > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 14:37:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28060 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA18185 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:36:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id WAA02214; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:44:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980222224452.A2190@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:44:52 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199802221942.LAA08014@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Sunthiti Patchararungruang on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 04:12:05AM +0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4088 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Sunthiti Patchararungruang: > Sorry about my useless example. Here is the real problem. I cut it > from wu-ftpd 2.4. All variables are proved to be correct. I use ^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks for giving us the real clue. See below. > FreeBSD2.2.5. > > sprintf(msg, "%.24s %d %s %d %s %c %s %c %c %s ftp %d %s\n", ^^ > ctime(&curtime), > xfertime, > remotehost, > byte_count, ^^^^^^^^^^ Your problem is probably there and we tumbled on it a something like two years ago :-) It is the "byte_count" thingy which is probably an "off_t" (64 bits) but the sprintf format string want it as an int "%d". That cause a difference in offsets between what it is in the stack and what the sprintf function retrieve from it based on the format string. Change your format string to show "%qd" (or better "%qu") and watch your program run. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #1: Sun Feb 22 00:44:29 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 14:40:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28357 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28323 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:40:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07358; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:09:58 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA22319; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:09:57 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980223090957.24952@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:09:57 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , Sunthiti Patchararungruang Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Signal 11 problem References: <199802221942.LAA08014@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802221942.LAA08014@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 11:42:39AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 February 1998 at 11:42:39 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > Debug your program. Oddly enough, there are lots of people using > FreeBSD, and innumerable functions taking more than 10 arguments. > > Your conclusion is bogus; did you really believe that in all these > years, nobody had ever tried this before? My, we are all smiles today. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 14:49:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00152 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA05117; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:14:38 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802222114.WAA05117@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:14:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: hoek@hwcn.org, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@james.hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com In-Reply-To: <199802222044.MAA08250@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 22, 98 12:43:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > unlike make/gmake, the bloat with tk is very large since it installs a > > ton of files, and emulation is not really a ppossibility (or, at least, > > unless tk has a backward compatible mode... but i doubt it.. > > Just to head this crap off right here, the "bloat" for a single tk > version is about one megabyte. Let's contrast this with thirty-odd > megabytes for emacs or more than sixty for xemacs. I don't care about size, but mess in the filesystem disturbs me a lot. You are right, tk4.2 is about 1MB of library binaries, another meg in /usr/local/lib/tk4.X, plus perhaps half a meg of manpages (maybe more). But this is about 400 (yes four hundred) files. A single 20MB file would bother me much less. Of course you have to add the corresponding tcl version (more or less same size, and some 200-odd files). The worse part: the manpages for these versions go all in the same place, so you'll get (part of) the old ones overwritten. > Looking at it from another angle, it costs you about ten US cents per > tk version, as opposed to about six dollars for Xemacs. oh yes... never installed emacs... i started using FreeBSD with a 250MB disk and decided sources were more precious than emacs. > This is turning into another Boggle-esque argument. 8( i managed to stay out of that one... :) cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 15:13:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03654 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:13:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03476 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08703; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:09:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802222309.PAA08703@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hoek@hwcn.org, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hoek@james.hwcn.org, jseger@freebsd.scds.com Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:14:38 +0100." <199802222114.WAA05117@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:09:21 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Just to head this crap off right here, the "bloat" for a single tk > > version is about one megabyte. Let's contrast this with thirty-odd > > megabytes for emacs or more than sixty for xemacs. > > I don't care about size, but mess in the filesystem disturbs me a lot. Where is there "mess"? I thought Satoshi and co. did an excellent job of (mostly) keeping the Tcl/Tk stuff well separated. > The worse part: the manpages for these versions go all in the same > place, so you'll get (part of) the old ones overwritten. This one is still a biter. I would have liked to see a way of having multi-character manpage section names, so I could say man -tcl open or even man -tcl8.0 open I certainly understand the annoyance that people feel about getting Tcl manpages when they were expecting something else. I feel the same way about getting printf(1) instead of printf(3). 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 16:22:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:22:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09938 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:22:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20633; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:22:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802230022.RAA20633@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mike Smith cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:21:29 PST." <199802221921.LAA07939@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:19:08 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Ugh. How else is a driver supposed to attach extra information to a >buf or group of bufs? The b_driver field was the only clean way I >could implement request fragmentation in the wfd driver. >From taking a 2 second look at the code, it seems that the problem is that you are attempting to store information in struct buf that should really be encapsulated in the atapi equivalent of "scsi_xfer" or as it is in CAM, the CCB. This structure would have a buf pointer in it. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 16:37:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11942 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08989; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:34:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802230034.QAA08989@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:19:08 MST." <199802230022.RAA20633@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:34:40 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Ugh. How else is a driver supposed to attach extra information to a > >buf or group of bufs? The b_driver field was the only clean way I > >could implement request fragmentation in the wfd driver. > > >From taking a 2 second look at the code, it seems that the problem is > that you are attempting to store information in struct buf that should > really be encapsulated in the atapi equivalent of "scsi_xfer" or as it > is in CAM, the CCB. This structure would have a buf pointer in it. This means creating a new structure holding a buf reference and an single integer counter, and then managing memory allocation for this new structure type, and passing it around instead of the buf. You're right, it almost certainly is the "correct" solution, but not necessarily the simplest. *sigh* -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 16:46:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:46:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13417 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21506; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:45:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802230045.RAA21506@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mike Smith cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:34:40 PST." <199802230034.QAA08989@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:42:47 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >This means creating a new structure holding a buf reference and an >single integer counter, and then managing memory allocation for this >new structure type, and passing it around instead of the buf. > >You're right, it almost certainly is the "correct" solution, but not >necessarily the simplest. *sigh* Actually, the "correct" solution would be to add ATAPI support to CAM, but that certainly is not the simplest solution. 8-) -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 17:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16303 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16295 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA14176; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:02:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:02:12 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Luigi Rizzo cc: Tim Vanderhoek , dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jseger@freebsd.scds.com Subject: Re: how many tk version do oyu need... In-Reply-To: <199802221900.UAA04874@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > as if a port uses gmake instead of pmake. Sometimes it's easiest > > for us to correctly fix the problem with patches, sometimes it's > > easier to load an emulation module (gmake, in the last example). > [...] > ton of files, and emulation is not really a ppossibility (or, at least, > unless tk has a backward compatible mode... but i doubt it.. The "emulation module[s]" I was indirectly referring to were the tk41 and tk42 ports. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 17:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:14:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18081 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29302 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) Prev-Resent: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:14:24 -0800 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA28550 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:58:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebase.camb.opengroup.org (freebase.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.3.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22694; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from loverso@opengroup.org) Received: from opengroup.org (localhost.camb.opengroup.org [127.0.0.1]) by freebase.camb.opengroup.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10655; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:58:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802222158.QAA10655@freebase.camb.opengroup.org> To: afs@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS-to-AFS translater and 2.2.5 "mv" X-Face: "UZ!}1W2N?eJdN(`1%|/OOPqJ).Idk?UyvWw'W-%`Gto8^IkEm>.g1O$[.;~}8E=Ire0|lO .o>:NlJS1@vO9bVmswRoq3j DdX9YGSeJ5a(mfX[1u>Z63G5_^+'8LVqjqvn X-Url: http://www.osf.org/~loverso/ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:58:32 -0500 From: John Robert LoVerso Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I still run my FreeBSD machines against the AFS/NFS translator and have come up across a problem with FreeBSD's latest version of "mv". I'd love to make this whole problem go away by using AFS directory and no longer needing the translator, but... The translator, in adapting AFS ACLs, does some wierd things. One of them is that if you "chmod 0" a file, you lose all access to it via the translator. I don't defend this behavior, but that is what I'm stuck with. This has been no problem until I installed 2.2-STABLE, dating past 2.2.5. In an NFS mounted AFS directory, I would do: freebase:~ 67 j$ ls -l d ls: d: No such file or directory freebase:~ 66 j$ mv /tmp/d . mv: ./d: Permission denied freebase:~ 67 j$ ls -l d ls: d: Permission denied On a machine with AFS, the same file would be listed as: mule:~ 64 j$ l d ---------- 1 loverso osf 0 Feb 21 17:15 d Seeing that, I peeked at the CVS tree for mv and found: RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE: 1.8.2.1 RELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE: 1.8 ---------------------------- revision 1.8 date: 1996/03/01 06:14:13; author: wosch; state: Exp; lines: +0 -0 branches: 1.8.2; delete unused label endarg correct indent of last new code fix usage string, option -f before option -i (alphabetic order) ---------------------------- revision 1.8.2.1 date: 1997/08/25 08:33:11; author: jkh; state: Exp; lines: +31 -13 MFC: cosmetic tweaks + error reporting mods. Sometime between 2.2.2 and 2.2.5, "mv" was changed. The crux of the change is in fastcopy(), when "mv" is copying regular files between different filesystems: < if ((to_fd = < open(to, O_CREAT | O_TRUNC | O_WRONLY, sbp->st_mode)) < 0) { ----- > while ((to_fd = > open(to, O_CREAT | O_EXCL | O_TRUNC | O_WRONLY, 0)) < 0) { That is, the new file is now created with mode 0, and afterwards, it is fchmod()'d to the correct value. I can only imagine that this change was made to close a possible race condition in when moving files. Note, however, that starting the new file with a mode of 0 only happens when "mv" is in the midst of copying a file. "cp", at least as of 2.2-980219, does NOT do this. So, if it isn't needed for "cp", why is it needed for "mv" when copying a file? (One possible answer is that a similar change for "cp" exists in the "current" branch and it hasn't been pushed to "stable"; I did not check). So, can anyone: - tell me they've got a working AFS client side - tell me why "mv" has been thus changed Meanwhile, I've backed out the change in "mv" so that I can continue using my machines on a daily basis. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 17:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21605 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21597 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:45:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29621 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:44:44 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CTM requires a new home! Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:44:44 -0800 Message-ID: <29617.888198284@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The current maintainer of CTM services, Richard Wackerbarth, no longer wishes to provide that service and is looking for a replacement. I have absolutely no idea what's involved in making CTM deltas but I'm sure that RKW would be happy to explain the process to whomever steps forward to fill his shoes. I'm guessing that you need, at a minimum, a local well-updated CVS tree and enough bandwidth to send the deltas out on a regular basis. If we can't find a volunteer then CTM services will simply be discontinued, so if you're a fan of CTM, here's your chance to make a difference! Thanks. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 18:05:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24644 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (0@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.110.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24620; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cy@cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.8/8.6.10) id SAA21413; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca(142.31.240.113), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpdaacoia; Sun Feb 22 18:04:41 1998 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.8.8/8.6.10) id LAA13152; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:54:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802221954.LAA13152@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpd013117; Sun Feb 22 19:54:09 1998 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 Reply-to: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-Sender: cy To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/crontab In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:50:11 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:54:07 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It was written that /etc/daily is run twice or not at all during DST changes. > I said it was a bug in cron(8); Archie Cobbs said it wasn't. > > HP-UX seems to have it sorted out.... Solaris and DUNIX did sort it out as well. > > Can anyone suggest an algorithm for implementing the HP-UX cron(8) behavior? > > Danny > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:09:07 +1000 (EST) > From: Darren Reed > To: Warner Losh > Cc: thompson@squirrel.tgsoft.com, hackers@freebsd.com > Subject: Re: crontab nit? > > HP-UX man page for cron: > Notes > On the days of daylight savings (summer) time transition (in time > zones and countries where daylight savings time applies), cron > schedules commands differently than normal. > > In the following description, an ambiguous time refers to an hour and > minute that occurs twice in the same day because of a daylight savings > time transition (usually on a day during the Autumn season). A non- > existent time refers to an hour and minute that does not occur because > of a daylight savings time transition (usually on a day during the > Spring season). DST-shift refers to the offset that is applied to > standard time to result in daylight savings time. This is normally > one hour, but can be any combination of hours and minutes up to 23 > hours and 59 minutes (see tztab(4)). > > When a command is specified to run at an ambiguous time, the command > is executed only once at the first occurrence of the ambiguous time. > > When a command is specified to run a non-existent time, the command is > executed after the specified time by an amount of time equal to the > DST-shift. When such an adjustment would conflict with another time > specified to run the command, the command is run only once rather than > running the command twice at the same time. > > For commands that are scheduled to run during all hours by specifying > a * in the hour field of the crontab entry, the command is scheduled > without any adjustment. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 UNIX Support OV/VM: BCSC02(CSCHUBER) ITSD BITNET: CSCHUBER@BCSC02.BITNET Government of BC Internet: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 18:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24688 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:05:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (0@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.110.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24626; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:04:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cy@cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.8/8.6.10) id SAA17280; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cschuber.net.gov.bc.ca(142.31.240.113), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpdaavfla; Sun Feb 22 17:57:23 1998 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.8.8/8.6.10) id LAA13152; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:54:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802221954.LAA13152@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpd013117; Sun Feb 22 19:54:09 1998 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 Reply-to: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-Sender: cy To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/crontab In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:50:11 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:54:07 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It was written that /etc/daily is run twice or not at all during DST changes. > I said it was a bug in cron(8); Archie Cobbs said it wasn't. > > HP-UX seems to have it sorted out.... Solaris and DUNIX did sort it out as well. > > Can anyone suggest an algorithm for implementing the HP-UX cron(8) behavior? > > Danny > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:09:07 +1000 (EST) > From: Darren Reed > To: Warner Losh > Cc: thompson@squirrel.tgsoft.com, hackers@freebsd.com > Subject: Re: crontab nit? > > HP-UX man page for cron: > Notes > On the days of daylight savings (summer) time transition (in time > zones and countries where daylight savings time applies), cron > schedules commands differently than normal. > > In the following description, an ambiguous time refers to an hour and > minute that occurs twice in the same day because of a daylight savings > time transition (usually on a day during the Autumn season). A non- > existent time refers to an hour and minute that does not occur because > of a daylight savings time transition (usually on a day during the > Spring season). DST-shift refers to the offset that is applied to > standard time to result in daylight savings time. This is normally > one hour, but can be any combination of hours and minutes up to 23 > hours and 59 minutes (see tztab(4)). > > When a command is specified to run at an ambiguous time, the command > is executed only once at the first occurrence of the ambiguous time. > > When a command is specified to run a non-existent time, the command is > executed after the specified time by an amount of time equal to the > DST-shift. When such an adjustment would conflict with another time > specified to run the command, the command is run only once rather than > running the command twice at the same time. > > For commands that are scheduled to run during all hours by specifying > a * in the hour field of the crontab entry, the command is scheduled > without any adjustment. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 UNIX Support OV/VM: BCSC02(CSCHUBER) ITSD BITNET: CSCHUBER@BCSC02.BITNET Government of BC Internet: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca Cy.Schubert@gems8.gov.bc.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 19:30:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06543 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06485; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10163; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:30:05 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <29617.888198284@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:28:30 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: CTM requires a new home! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ctm-announce@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:44 PM -0600 2/22/98, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >The current maintainer of CTM services, Richard Wackerbarth, no longer >wishes to provide that service and is looking for a replacement. I >have absolutely no idea what's involved in making CTM deltas but I'm >sure that RKW would be happy to explain the process to whomever steps >forward to fill his shoes. I'm guessing that you need, at a minimum, >a local well-updated CVS tree and enough bandwidth to send the deltas >out on a regular basis. The bandwidth is a minor requirement. Most of the deltas consist of only a message or two. The real requirements are 1) A "production" system that can be relied upon to produce the deltas day in and day out. 2) About 2Gb of Hard disk to support the various versions of the tree that you need to maintain. A MINIMUM of two copies of the ENTIRE CVS tree and 3 source trees. (We could probably cut that back to 2 by dropping the 2.1 deltas) and the master library of the deltas. 3) Enough computing time to produce the deltas. At the moment, I am using about 50% of a P5-90 for 6 or 7 hours per day. >If we can't find a volunteer then CTM services will simply be >discontinued, so if you're a fan of CTM, here's your chance to make a >difference! It wouldn't be as efficient, but the various distributions could be split up and come from different places. The reason that I am quitting is that the burden has steadly grown. I made some suggestions that would greatly cut down on the burden of reprocessing dead material many times each day. Much of the bulk of the tree could be taken from a CD and, most importantly, would not need to be reprocessed all the time. I even offered to implement the changes. However, as is usually the case with this group, the people who get to make the decisions are not interested in my changes. They do not see that THEY get a direct benefit and the changes MIGHT affect them. Therefore, I am making the only change over which I have any control. It guarantees to reduce the burden on my system. Unfortunately it may affect some of you, who, like myself, have no say in the matter. Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 19:45:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08873 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08838; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA05108; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd005106; Sun Feb 22 19:45:24 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id TAA02598; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:18 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199802230345.TAA02598@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: CTM requires a new home! In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Feb 22, 98 09:28:30 pm" To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:45:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ctm-announce@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I offer to run the server, if I get exact instruction how to do it. Here is a P5-75 which is pratical idle 99.9% and it could be used for it. > At 7:44 PM -0600 2/22/98, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >The current maintainer of CTM services, Richard Wackerbarth, no longer > >wishes to provide that service and is looking for a replacement. I > >have absolutely no idea what's involved in making CTM deltas but I'm > >sure that RKW would be happy to explain the process to whomever steps > >forward to fill his shoes. I'm guessing that you need, at a minimum, > >a local well-updated CVS tree and enough bandwidth to send the deltas > >out on a regular basis. > > The bandwidth is a minor requirement. Most of the deltas consist of only > a message or two. The real requirements are > 1) A "production" system that can be relied upon to produce the deltas > day in and day out. > 2) About 2Gb of Hard disk to support the various versions of the tree > that you need to maintain. A MINIMUM of two copies of the ENTIRE > CVS tree and 3 source trees. (We could probably cut that back to > 2 by dropping the 2.1 deltas) and the master library of the deltas. > 3) Enough computing time to produce the deltas. At the moment, I am > using about 50% of a P5-90 for 6 or 7 hours per day. > > >If we can't find a volunteer then CTM services will simply be > >discontinued, so if you're a fan of CTM, here's your chance to make a > >difference! > > It wouldn't be as efficient, but the various distributions could be > split up and come from different places. > > The reason that I am quitting is that the burden has steadly grown. > I made some suggestions that would greatly cut down on the burden of > reprocessing dead material many times each day. Much of the bulk of > the tree could be taken from a CD and, most importantly, would not > need to be reprocessed all the time. I even offered to implement > the changes. > > However, as is usually the case with this group, the people who get > to make the decisions are not interested in my changes. They do > not see that THEY get a direct benefit and the changes MIGHT affect > them. > > Therefore, I am making the only change over which I have any control. > It guarantees to reduce the burden on my system. Unfortunately it may > affect some of you, who, like myself, have no say in the matter. > > Richard Wackerbarth > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 20:46:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16617 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:46:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16566; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:45:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09851; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802230445.UAA09851@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Brian Handy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: VFATFS Status In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:29 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:45:10 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We tried the Luoqi patch on ftp.freebsd.org for vfatfs, and the following > missive from my test subject is the result. These aren't the same as the > ones in -current. Our results are included below. (There is probably > something else up with the ZIP drive, but I surmise we should be able to > read the Win95 partition. I wasn't present for this experiment so I can't > say exactly what transpired.) Thanks for testing this; the datapoints are invaluable. > I know Jordan is looking for results on this, maybe in part as a candidate > for -STABLE. If I can find a version of these that apply to -STABLE, I'm > willing to give it a try. If I grab the -CURRENT msdosfs, is there any > hope I can get it to compile in -STABLE? We can give it a try here... I don't think that'd be trivial; you're welcome, but I suspect that the patches wouldn't apply, let alone work usefully. Now, to your test victim: > No joy. I made the patch, it didn't complain. I re-made the kernel, no > complaints that I noticed and it boots OK (also changed some kernel > options, mostly removing a few obvious things like CPU386). But if > I try to mount wd0 or wd3 (where I deduce the Zip drive is), I get > invalid arg messages except occassionally I get hard read errors on the > Zip and the light goes on the drive. It would help to know which mount commands were used here. Still, it's not surprising that trying to mount a FAT filesystem with the ufs mounter doesn't work. 8) > Without the -t msdos, it kicks > me off with a different error (bad zero block or somesuch, I can jot > these down if it would be useful). It would indeed be helpful. Again, knowing the exact commands that were used would help too. Note that it's nontrivial to actually get a FAT32 partition onto a Zip disk, and quite often even Win95 OSR2 preinstalled systems have FAT16 filesystems (eg. my laptop came that way). If your tester is willing to try a few more things, and they definitely have a FAT32-capable system, have them get in touch with me and I can talk you through the process. It's very easy to tell if you have a FAT32-capable system; open a DOS window and run 'fdisk'. If it puts up a screen talking about "large filesystem support" and asks you if you want it, then you do. Otherwise you don't. (Amusing note; if you say 'yes', create a FAT32 filesystem, and then go to the "show information" screen, you will notice that it doesn't actually know what the filesystem you've created *is*.) Again, thanks for helping us with this. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 22:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28084 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pitagora.monte-rosa.com ([194.116.34.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28004 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:35:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gea@masternet.it) Received: from masternet.it (socrate.monte-rosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by pitagora.monte-rosa.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03668 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:42:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <34F0B7CB.3C578A61@masternet.it> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:42:03 +0100 From: Amedeo Beck Peccoz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make reinstall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can't make reinstall from a nfs mounted /usr/src and /usr/obj as I get ===> lib/libc install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc.a /usr/lib install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc_p.a /usr/lib install: libc_p.a: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. The library libc_p.a actually doesn't exist into the /usr/obj tree and in /usr/lib all *_p.a files are last dated 1998/02/18 on my 3.0-CURRENT system. I've been experiencing this problem in the last two or three days. Cheers -- Amedeo Beck Peccoz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 22 22:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:49:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29796 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA09454; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:48:28 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: make reinstall In-Reply-To: <34F0B7CB.3C578A61@masternet.it> from Amedeo Beck Peccoz at "Feb 23, 98 00:42:03 am" To: gea@masternet.it (Amedeo Beck Peccoz) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:48:28 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe you should keep the /etc/make.conf files on the different machines in sync? If the master machine have something like "NOPROFILE=true", the others must also have it. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za > Can't make reinstall from a nfs mounted /usr/src and /usr/obj as > I get > > ===> lib/libc > install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc.a /usr/lib > install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 libc_p.a /usr/lib > install: libc_p.a: No such file or directory > *** Error code 71 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 00:05:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08337; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:05:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id IAA00792; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:04:08 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:59:06 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802230445.UAA09851@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:47:29 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:01:13 +0000 To: Jordan Hubbard From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: VFATFS Status Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've got facilities here to test this stuff, but my last successful build of the world was 15 Feb with src-cur 3250. I'll get on it as soon as the world works again... -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 00:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:13:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09546; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA27373; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:12:57 -0800 (PST) To: Bob Bishop cc: Jordan Hubbard , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VFATFS Status In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:01:13 GMT." Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:12:57 -0800 Message-ID: <27369.888221577@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It should work now - I just built a successful release from it. > I've got facilities here to test this stuff, but my last successful build > of the world was 15 Feb with src-cur 3250. > > I'll get on it as soon as the world works again... > > > -- > Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 > rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 00:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13587 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shire.domestic.de (kuebart.stuttgart.netsurf.de [194.233.216.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13581 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:58:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joki@kuebart.stuttgart.netsurf.de) Received: from yacht.domestic.de (yacht.domestic.de [192.168.1.4]) by shire.domestic.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11152 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:58:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joki@shire.domestic.de) From: Joachim Kuebart Received: (from joki@localhost) by yacht.domestic.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA00574 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:01:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joki@shire.domestic.de) Message-Id: <199802230901.KAA00574@yacht.domestic.de> Subject: VFAT32 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:01:04 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm also willing to test VFAT 32 code, but I don't find it in my -current tree. I'm also not subscribed to hackers anymore. Could someone please point me to the VFAT32 patches? TIA cu Jo --------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve Joachim Kuebart Tel: +49 711 653706 Replicants are like any other machine -- Germany they're either a benefit or a hazard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 01:16:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15715 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10624; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:15:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802230915.BAA10624@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Joachim Kuebart cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VFAT32 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:01:04 +0100." <199802230901.KAA00574@yacht.domestic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:15:22 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm also willing to test VFAT 32 code, but I don't find it in my > -current tree. I'm also not subscribed to hackers anymore. Could > someone please point me to the VFAT32 patches? If your copy of -current is up to date (within the last day or so), then the msdosfs code should be able to read/write FAT32 filesystems such as those created by Win95 OSR2 and the Win98 beta. I have not exercised this extensively, but it does appear to work. Volunteers with expendable FAT32 filesystems and some time up their sleeves are enthusiastically requested to exercise this code as much as possible. If you're not sure whether you *have* a FAT32 filesystem, try the following: Under Win95, open a DOS window and start fdisk. (No, you're not going to write on anything). If fdisk doesn't ask you a question about "large filesystem support", then forget it - you have an older version that does not support FAT32. If fdisk *does* ask the question, answer Yes. The select the option to display your current partitions. If a partition that you *know* has a FAT filesystem on it is listed as having the type "UNKNOWN" (rather than FAT16), then that is a FAT32 filesystem. Again, be careful. Dmitrij has obviously tested this code, but it should stil be regarded as experimental at this time. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 03:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25885; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:32:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23832; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:32:10 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802230345.TAA02598@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> References: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Feb 22, 98 09:28:30 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:24:28 -0600 To: Ulf Zimmermann From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: CTM requires a new home! Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ctm-announce@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:45 PM -0600 2/22/98, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: >I offer to run the server, if I get exact instruction how to do it. >Here is a P5-75 which is pratical idle 99.9% and it could be used for it. > >> At 7:44 PM -0600 2/22/98, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >The current maintainer of CTM services, Richard Wackerbarth, no longer >> >wishes to provide that service and is looking for a replacement. Great! I'll work with Ulf on the details. Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 03:41:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:41:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26665; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 03:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01328; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:43:42 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Newsgroups: pl.comp.os.freebsd,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:43:39 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, G Hasse Subject: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.3 is available! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! After lengthy period of fighting with memory-related issues, I am pleased to announce the availability of PicoBSD 0.3 - one floppy version of FreeBSD 3.0. There are basically two variants of it: one for dialup access, and one router-like. You can get more info, and download it at: http://www.freebsd.org/~abial The 'dialup' version will run even on 386SX with 8MB RAM. You'll find there also a set of scripts which make the process of creating such one-floppy setups very easy. If you're an ISP, I especially recommend them to you - you can prepare a custom picobsd floppy to give your customers easy and secure access to your facilities. Enjoy! Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 04:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from yandex.hq.cti.ru (yandex.hq.cti.ru [194.67.85.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04856 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 04:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tejblum@arc.hq.cti.ru) Received: from localhost (tejblum@localhost) by yandex.hq.cti.ru (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02824; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:48:09 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tejblum@arc.hq.cti.ru) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:48:09 +0300 (MSK) From: Dmitrij Tejblum X-Sender: tejblum@yandex.hq.cti.ru Reply-To: Dmitrij Tejblum To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VFATFS Status In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23 Feb 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > options, mostly removing a few obvious things like CPU386). But if > I try to mount wd0 or wd3 (where I deduce the Zip drive is), I get > invalid arg messages except occassionally I get hard read errors on the Try wd0s1 (or wd3s1). Dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 05:29:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA07041 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:29:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA01456 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:29:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:29:08 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: i386/5781 Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 23 Feb 1998 14:29:08 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anybody commit my patch to the ep driver? It should at the very least make it into 2.2.6R. It is a *stupid* bug with an easy fix. I have three machines which have been running 2.2.5-STABLE with that patch for several weeks. Jordan? Garrett? Jörg? Kato? -- "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out." (Michael Press on a.s.r) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 07:21:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:21:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19432 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:21:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA21765; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:19:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:18:17 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: John Hay cc: Amedeo Beck Peccoz , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall In-Reply-To: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, John Hay wrote: > Maybe you should keep the /etc/make.conf files on the different > machines in sync? If the master machine have something like > "NOPROFILE=true", the others must also have it. As I have a number of machines to sync, and we regularly install and decomission machines here, it seems like one possible addition to the global makefile might be something which spits out the following in an installworld or reinstall: Warning: Built with -DNOPROFILE but not set; using it anyway. Warning: Built with -DNOGAMES but not set; using it anyway. Warning: Built with -DMAKE_KERBEROS4 but not set; using it anyway. Possibly followed by sleep(1) to give the user a second to see this. This would require state retained following a build to indicate how the build was managed. Given that I build -stable and -current on one machine, and then install to others, it would be helpful; a lot easier for debugging problems like that for new users also, I would guess. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 07:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21869 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:44:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20287; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:44:18 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA11117; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:44:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:44:17 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Robert Watson on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 10:18:17AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 10:18:17AM -0500, Robert Watson wrote: > As I have a number of machines to sync, and we regularly install and > decomission machines here, it seems like one possible addition to the > global makefile might be something which spits out the following in an > installworld or reinstall: > > Warning: Built with -DNOPROFILE but not set; using it anyway. > Warning: Built with -DNOGAMES but not set; using it anyway. > Warning: Built with -DMAKE_KERBEROS4 but not set; using it anyway. > > Possibly followed by sleep(1) to give the user a second to see this. This > would require state retained following a build to indicate how the build > was managed. Given that I build -stable and -current on one machine, and > then install to others, it would be helpful; a lot easier for debugging > problems like that for new users also, I would guess. Sounds like a good idea. Where are your patches to implement this? Eivind, just running his patches to let 'make buildworld' work for a non-root user through another 'make buildworld' to test them :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 08:19:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25717 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.jdl.com [209.39.144.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25705 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:19:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdl@chrome.jdl.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA01344 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:19:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802231619.KAA01344@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: My Compiler Confusion Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Compiler-Motto: Wintermute is dead. Long live Wintermute. Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:19:26 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hackers, I confess, I need some help in figuring out just what is really going on during the compilation of a trivial routine. I suspect that I have an odd floating point mode set on my FreeBSD box, but I'm not sure. It's a sordid tale of multiple compilers and different behavior, so I'm going to just toss out a stack of perhaps useful facts and see if someone can shed some insight for me. Admitedly, there are parts of this that are not FreeBSD related at all, but I do get the strangest, unique behavior from my FreebSD box. Here are the players: My FreeBSD System (don't laugh): chrome 2779 % uname -a FreeBSD chrome.jdl.com 2.2-BETA_A FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A #0: Tue Dec 24 03:41:49 1996 jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC i386 My gcc under FreeBSD: chrome 2780 % gcc -v gcc version 2.7.2.1 A sparc box: blowtorch 212 % uname -a SunOS blowtorch 5.5.1 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 Its gcc: blowtorch 213 % gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.5/2.7.2/specs gcc version 2.7.2 Some damn Windows 95 box. And a C/C++ compiler which I unfortunately must present to you folks as the "Black Box compiler", bbc, available under (my) FreeBSD, the sparc box, and Windows 95. Naturally, The Problem is in this compiler. :-) OK, here's the whittled-down stupid code that cause us grief: int k; #define FLT_MAX 3.40282347e+38 main() { k = FLT_MAX; } Yep, that's supposed to be FLT_MAX from /usr/include land. On the sparc it is: #define FLT_MAX 3.402823466E+38F /* max decimal value of a "float" */ Anyway, it's precise value isn't too critical as any really big float seems to be a problem here. In fact, the point of The Problem here is that any floating point number larger than an int will be a problem here. I just happen to be trying to compile a math library that uses FLT_MAX in it. OK, observed behavior: On the sparc box with "gcc -S bug1.c": - No warnings - Silently generates bad code, using 0 instead of the constant: main: !#PROLOGUE# 0 save %sp,-112,%sp !#PROLOGUE# 1 sethi %hi(k),%o0 st %g0,[%o0+%lo(k)] .LL1: ret On the same sparc box using the Black Box Compiler: - The obvious warning: "bug1.c", line 7: warning: floating-point value does not fit in required integral type - Essentially correct code?: _main: ld.lower r1,65535 ld.upper r1,32767 addrhi r2,%addrhi(_k) st.32 r1,(r2+%addrlo(_k)) Using the same Black Box Compiler under Windows: - Same warning - Bad code: addrhi r2,%addrhi(_k) st.32 r0,(r2+%addrlo(_k)) ; r0 :- 0 Under FreeBSD now, gcc gives: - Warning: bug1.c:7: warning: overflow in implicit constant conversion - Bad code: _main: pushl %ebp movl %esp,%ebp call ___main movl $0,_k Now here's the cool one. Under FreeBSD, the Black Box Compiler: - Warning: "bug1.c", line 7: warning: floating-point value does not fit in required integral type Signal: SIGFPE in . line 7 - Naturally, no code generated. That's the raw data so far. It is true that the floating point value doesn't fit in an integer, directly represented. The code that the compiler is executing when this woofing happens looks, in part, like this: typedef struct { int tc_type; union { /* Whole buncha irrelevant fields in here too. */ struct { int v0, v1, v2, v3; } ival; float fval; } vals; } TC; BOOL is_full_number(TC tc, int *i) { int k; float s; switch (tc.type) { case TC_R4: k = tc.vals.fval; s = k; if (s == tc.vals.fval) { *i = k; return TRUE; } return FALSE; OK, clearly, the intent here is to somehow determine if the float and integer representation of a number in TC look the same after being converted from float, to integer, and back to a float. We lose it on that k = tc.vals.fval statement, as that is where the implicit cast to integer happens. The questions now... Why is the Floating point exception happening only on my FreebSD system? Is there some FP mode somewhere that I don't know about or don't know how to set for the system or a specific process? And which I might then set to a specific mode near the bbc's startup under FreeBSD? What are they(*) _really_ trying to do with that cast-cast-compare code? ((*) I am not the original author of this Work of Art...) Given that the constant really _doesn't_ fit in the integer, I think the intent of this code is to essentially determine that fact and then cause the compiler to do something else (more correct), than silently substitute 0 in the generated code, as it does on the Solaris box using the bbc or gcc. How _should_ this cast-cast-compare test really be written to be more correct? As a range test? Invert the test by taking max-int and placing it in a float for the compare, which must be done using a floating compare? Any insight someone might shed here would be greately appreciated. I am currently not subscribed to "hackers", so keeping me in the mail-headers would also be, um, appreciated! Thanks, jdl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 09:34:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04581 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04566 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:34:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06077; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:34:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:34:01 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Eivind Eklund Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980223164417.51626@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 04:44:17PM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on Feb 23: > Eivind, just running his patches to let 'make buildworld' work for a > non-root user through another 'make buildworld' to test them :-) hun? the tree as of a few weeks ago was buildable by non-root users.. you just had to compile with: BINGRP=admin BINOWN=jmg TMACOWN=jmg TMACGRP=admin SHAREOWN=jmg SHAREGRP=admin and it works... my last buildworld as of Feb 21 was built as my normal user.... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 10:04:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09168 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00644; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:12:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980223131230.55039@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:12:30 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Dmitrij Tejblum , Brian Handy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VFATFS Status References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dmitrij Tejblum on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 03:48:09PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 03:48:09PM +0300, Dmitrij Tejblum wrote: > > On 23 Feb 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > > > options, mostly removing a few obvious things like CPU386). But if > > I try to mount wd0 or wd3 (where I deduce the Zip drive is), I get > > invalid arg messages except occassionally I get hard read errors on the > > Try wd0s1 (or wd3s1). I've always mounted up my MSDOS partitions on the ZIP drive on sd1s4 - note the "s4" part - I think that's where the DOS paritition sits by default on the ZIP disks... I have't tried with the new VFATFS yet though - I should get time to build a new world with VFAT over the weekend. -Mark > > Dima > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 10:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12877 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12649 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22255; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:27:22 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA11489; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:27:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980223192721.04375@follo.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:27:21 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 09:34:01AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 09:34:01AM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on Feb 23: > > Eivind, just running his patches to let 'make buildworld' work for a > > non-root user through another 'make buildworld' to test them :-) > > hun? the tree as of a few weeks ago was buildable by non-root users.. > you just had to compile with: > BINGRP=admin BINOWN=jmg TMACOWN=jmg TMACGRP=admin SHAREOWN=jmg SHAREGRP=admin > > and it works... my last buildworld as of Feb 21 was built as my > normal user.... Two places where I had problems with noschg yesterday: gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld and secure/lib/* as a result of setting LIB_PRECIOUS and using . Do no-one else have problems with this? (The same tree built fine as root). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 10:51:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15872 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id SAA08579; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:49:26 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:49:25 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199802231619.KAA01344@chrome.jdl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:51:29 +0000 To: Jon Loeliger From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: My Compiler Confusion Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >What are they(*) _really_ trying to do with that cast-cast-compare code? >((*) I am not the original author of this Work of Art...) I reckon they're trying to avoid using an FP constant if the integer is truly equivalent; might be cheaper on some targets. >Given that the constant really _doesn't_ fit in the integer, I think >the intent of this code is to essentially determine that fact and >then cause the compiler to do something else (more correct), than >silently substitute 0 in the generated code, as it does on the Solaris >box using the bbc or gcc. Well, according to the only reference I have to hand, "When a value of floating type is converted to integral type, the fractional part is discarded; if the resulting value cannot be represented in the integral type, the behaviour is undefined." (K&R II A6.3). So the Solaris behaviour is just fine. >How _should_ this cast-cast-compare test really be written to be >more correct? As a range test? Invert the test by taking max-int >and placing it in a float for the compare, which must be done >using a floating compare? If I'm right about what they're trying to do, the code is probably OK. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 11:19:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:19:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19028; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02236; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:18:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34F09604.B074FD1@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:17:58 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: config@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Alpha release of GUI admin tool. testers needed. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alpha release of my GUI tool for Users Management is out. Please, test it (don't forgott to backup) For more details look at http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html Thanks. -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 11:42:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25220 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25111; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02259; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:40:46 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:40:38 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG CC: Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rnordier@iafrica.com, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TenDRA C++ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was offline few days, during tehnical problems of my provider, so: what the current state of TenDRA porting ? I got TenDRA C++ running on FreeBSD (and do a port of GNU libio) and ask to somebody from commiters to contact with me, about changes in FreeBSD headers, which must done to support TenDRA C++ compiler. I will work on HP STL during next week. About C: Are port of Robert Nordier is submitted ? His API nice, execpt changes to ctype.h About POSIX API, what you receive: 1. write WRONG_POSIX in flags. 2. change FreeBSD to be POSIX (by correcting misc/5785, misc/5786 and #define _POSIX_JOBS_CONTROL as 1 to omitt TenDRA bug (by words of Robert Andrews, it would be fixed in 4.1.2 near march) which, for me, is preferable. Thanks for all and sorry for poor English. -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 11:47:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from troi.csw.net ([209.136.192.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26394 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:46:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from concept1@cswnet.com) Received: from concept1.cswnet.com (asrue2-23.cswnet.com [209.136.200.87]) by troi.csw.net (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA15975 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:46:24 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F27C24.ECCB97B2@cswnet.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:52:04 -0600 From: Concept One Computers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WY50 emulation for BSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We are trying to connect a BSD box to a SCO box via serial connection. We need a Wyse 50 emulator for BSD. Do you know of one? Daniel Ward Concept One, Inc. 915 W. Main Russellville, AR 72801 (501) 968-8088 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 11:47:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26793 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26262 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node73.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.73]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA14017 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:46:13 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980223174448.009a1dc0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:44:53 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: My Compiler Confusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, if the code is ok, so the compilers are crooekd. Is there anything to do with the FBSD FP support / I remember there is a note somewhere saying that GENERIC kernel support to FP (made by SW) was not that good, and should be replaced (compile the lernel w/ HW FP support enabled) if FP was REALLY an issue. But I can't see why it would be causing problems with compilation ! Just guessing. At 06:51 PM 2/23/98 +0000, you wrote: >>What are they(*) _really_ trying to do with that cast-cast-compare code? >>((*) I am not the original author of this Work of Art...) > >I reckon they're trying to avoid using an FP constant if the integer is >truly equivalent; might be cheaper on some targets. > >>Given that the constant really _doesn't_ fit in the integer, I think >>the intent of this code is to essentially determine that fact and >>then cause the compiler to do something else (more correct), than >>silently substitute 0 in the generated code, as it does on the Solaris >>box using the bbc or gcc. > >Well, according to the only reference I have to hand, "When a value of >floating type is converted to integral type, the fractional part is >discarded; if the resulting value cannot be represented in the integral >type, the behaviour is undefined." (K&R II A6.3). So the Solaris behaviour >is just fine. > >>How _should_ this cast-cast-compare test really be written to be >>more correct? As a range test? Invert the test by taking max-int >>and placing it in a float for the compare, which must be done >>using a floating compare? > >If I'm right about what they're trying to do, the code is probably OK. > > >-- >Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 >rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 11:59:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29520 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:59:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA01110 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:58:54 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:58:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1107.888263934@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/berend/FreEasy.html Now at version 0.3. Please see the web page for a full description and installation instructions. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 12:38:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08332 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:38:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08324 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12281; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:37:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802232037.MAA12281@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Concept One Computers cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WY50 emulation for BSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:52:04 CST." <34F27C24.ECCB97B2@cswnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:36:59 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We are trying to connect a BSD box to a SCO box via serial connection. > We need a Wyse 50 emulator for BSD. Do you know of one? Why do you need a Wyse 50 emulator specifically? Are you talking to an application that doesn't support the standard screen abstraction? Are you using the BSD box under X or on the console? If the latter, the BSD console is very similar to the SCO Colour Console. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 12:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08467 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node73.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.73]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA14161 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:52:19 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980223175052.009a5a10@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:50:59 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: 3COM 590 problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm very sorry to bother you with this little problem, but my other sources of help here in Brazil are - ALL - enjoying Carnaval, and NONE are checking emails... My 2.2.1 Free is saying this when checking the network card : vx0 <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:15 utp/aui/bnc[*bnc*] address 00:20:af:f6:e4:18 Warning! Defective early revision adapter! Chances are that this is not a HW problem, but no furthers tests wer made yet. Any takers for this one ? (Hey, Jon: Now I used the correct address !) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 12:42:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09486 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:42:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12305; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:41:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802232041.MAA12305@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jon Loeliger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My Compiler Confusion In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:19:26 CST." <199802231619.KAA01344@chrome.jdl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:41:18 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I confess, I need some help in figuring out just what is > really going on during the compilation of a trivial routine. > I suspect that I have an odd floating point mode set on > my FreeBSD box, but I'm not sure. You're close, I think. > Under FreeBSD now, gcc gives: > - Warning: > bug1.c:7: warning: overflow in implicit constant conversion Correct warning. > - Bad code: > > _main: > pushl %ebp > movl %esp,%ebp > call ___main > movl $0,_k Correct code, according to the standard. > Now here's the cool one. Under FreeBSD, the Black Box Compiler: > - Warning: > "bug1.c", line 7: warning: floating-point value does not fit in > required integral type > > Signal: SIGFPE in . line 7 The BB compiler is apparently trying to use the default behaviour of whatever it was bootstrapped with on the given platform to produce the "platform normal" translation of a floating value to an integer. Or something similar, at any rate I would expect that the BB compiler is not masking the FP exceptions that relate to loss of prceision. You should examine the source of the BB compiler and the fpsetmask(2) manpage, and make such adjustments are are required. > The code that the compiler is executing when this woofing happens > looks, in part, like this: > > typedef struct { > int tc_type; > union { /* Whole buncha irrelevant fields in here too. */ > struct { > int v0, v1, v2, v3; > } ival; > float fval; > } vals; > } TC; > > BOOL > is_full_number(TC tc, int *i) > { > int k; > float s; > > switch (tc.type) { > > case TC_R4: > k = tc.vals.fval; > s = k; > if (s == tc.vals.fval) { > *i = k; > return TRUE; > } > return FALSE; > > OK, clearly, the intent here is to somehow determine if the float > and integer representation of a number in TC look the same after > being converted from float, to integer, and back to a float. > We lose it on that k = tc.vals.fval statement, as that is where > the implicit cast to integer happens. Like I said. 8) > > The questions now... > > Why is the Floating point exception happening only on my FreebSD system? > Is there some FP mode somewhere that I don't know about or don't > know how to set for the system or a specific process? And which I > might then set to a specific mode near the bbc's startup under FreeBSD? See above inre: fpsetmask. > What are they(*) _really_ trying to do with that cast-cast-compare code? > ((*) I am not the original author of this Work of Art...) See above inre: platform-normal behaviour. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 12:50:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:50:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10530 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06766; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:42:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980223124215.26572@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:42:15 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Eivind Eklund Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19980223192721.04375@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980223192721.04375@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 07:27:21PM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on Feb 23: > On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 09:34:01AM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on Feb 23: > > > Eivind, just running his patches to let 'make buildworld' work for a > > > non-root user through another 'make buildworld' to test them :-) > > > > hun? the tree as of a few weeks ago was buildable by non-root users.. > > you just had to compile with: > > BINGRP=admin BINOWN=jmg TMACOWN=jmg TMACGRP=admin SHAREOWN=jmg SHAREGRP=admin > > > > and it works... my last buildworld as of Feb 21 was built as my > > normal user.... > > Two places where I had problems with noschg yesterday: > gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld > and > secure/lib/* > as a result of setting LIB_PRECIOUS and using . I'm assuming you mean PRECIOUSLIB... > Do no-one else have problems with this? (The same tree built fine as > root). well... you can't set the schg flag as a normal user... (and it doesn't report an error?) did you have a stale /usr/obj dir from a build as root? I'm starting a build with PRECIUSLIB set just to make sure... but I think it's because of a stale /usr/obj... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 12:50:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10552; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20404; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:50:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980223124959.20798@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:49:59 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rnordier@iafrica.com, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TenDRA C++ References: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua>; from Ruslan Shevchenko on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 11:40:38PM +0200 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Shevchenko scribbled this message on Feb 22: [-- Warning: x-user-defined is not compatible with your display.] > I was offline few days, during tehnical problems of my provider, > so: what the current state of TenDRA porting ? well, I did use the package that another person did real quickly.. and I've fixed tuname.c to report the proper information along with freebsd in lowercase as it seems to want... I've tried getting the dynamic part of TenDRA to work, but I haven't removed the GCC bugosities from crt0.c (like the inline assembly)... > I got TenDRA C++ running on FreeBSD (and do a port of GNU libio) > and ask to somebody from commiters to contact with me, about > changes in FreeBSD headers, which must done to support TenDRA C++ > compiler. > I will work on HP STL during next week. > > About C: > Are port of Robert Nordier is submitted ? > His API nice, execpt changes to ctype.h hmm.. not sure about this one... > About POSIX API, what you receive: > 1. write WRONG_POSIX in flags. > 2. change FreeBSD to be POSIX > (by correcting misc/5785, misc/5786 > and #define _POSIX_JOBS_CONTROL as 1 to omitt TenDRA bug > (by words of Robert Andrews, it would be fixed in 4.1.2 near > march) well, I can fix the #define _POSIX_* assuming that no one on commiters complain... not sure about 1 or the pr's... > which, for me, is preferable. > > Thanks for all and sorry for poor English. no problem... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 13:08:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13288 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:08:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-94.iafrica.com [196.31.98.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13180; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA07750; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:03:25 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199802232103.XAA07750@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: TenDRA C++ In-Reply-To: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Feb 22, 98 11:40:38 pm" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:03:24 +0200 (SAT) Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rnordier@iafrica.com, bde@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > I was offline few days, during tehnical problems of my provider, > so: what the current state of TenDRA porting ? [ ... ] > About C: > Are port of Robert Nordier is submitted ? > His API nice, execpt changes to ctype.h You're right about ctype.h. Some of the changes were rushed and wanted polishing. I'll be uploading a substantially revised set, also incorporating some feedback, to http://users.iafrica.com/r/rn/rnordier/programs/FreeBSD/ around this time tomorrow. Apart from that, there's a handful of further changes, and a couple of bugs to track, and I hope the C side will be ready. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 13:15:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:15:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-169.iafrica.com [196.31.98.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14488; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA07750; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:03:25 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199802232103.XAA07750@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: TenDRA C++ In-Reply-To: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Feb 22, 98 11:40:38 pm" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:03:24 +0200 (SAT) Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rnordier@iafrica.com, bde@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > I was offline few days, during tehnical problems of my provider, > so: what the current state of TenDRA porting ? [ ... ] > About C: > Are port of Robert Nordier is submitted ? > His API nice, execpt changes to ctype.h You're right about ctype.h. Some of the changes were rushed and wanted polishing. I'll be uploading a substantially revised set, also incorporating some feedback, to http://users.iafrica.com/r/rn/rnordier/programs/FreeBSD/ around this time tomorrow. Apart from that, there's a handful of further changes, and a couple of bugs to track, and I hope the C side will be ready. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 13:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14865 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from argus.tfs.net (as1-p163.tfs.net [139.146.210.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14807 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA16463; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:08:27 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199802232108.PAA16463@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: 3COM 590 problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980223175052.009a5a10@pop.mpc.com.br> from Capriotti at "Feb 23, 98 05:50:59 pm" To: capriotti@geocities.com (Capriotti) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:08:26 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Wed Feb 11 00:51:24 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > I'm very sorry to bother you with this little problem, but my other sources > of help here in Brazil are - ALL - enjoying Carnaval, and NONE are checking > emails... > > My 2.2.1 Free is saying this when checking the network card : > > vx0 <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:15 > utp/aui/bnc[*bnc*] address 00:20:af:f6:e4:18 > Warning! Defective early revision adapter! > > Chances are that this is not a HW problem, but no furthers tests wer made yet. > > Any takers for this one ? > > (Hey, Jon: Now I used the correct address !) well, it looks like the EEPROM is returning data that makes if_vx_pci.c think it's an older card. no need to worry [?] the driver still loads, but beware... no comments in code concerning this.. check the archives... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 13:16:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14884 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14790; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25742; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980223131630.40841@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:16:30 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Robert Nordier Cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TenDRA C++ References: <34F09B54.FE608140@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> <199802232103.XAA07750@eac.iafrica.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199802232103.XAA07750@eac.iafrica.com>; from Robert Nordier on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 11:03:24PM +0200 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Nordier scribbled this message on Feb 23: > I'll be uploading a substantially revised set, also incorporating > some feedback, to > > http://users.iafrica.com/r/rn/rnordier/programs/FreeBSD/ > > around this time tomorrow. Apart from that, there's a handful of > further changes, and a couple of bugs to track, and I hope the C > side will be ready. have you gotten the dyanmic compiling working? so that you don't get all the RSS text relocation messages? -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 14:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22720 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ve7tcp.ampr.org (ve7tcp.ampr.org [198.161.92.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22702 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org) Received: from localhost.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by ve7tcp.ampr.org (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA19547; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:04:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802232204.PAA19547@ve7tcp.ampr.org> X-Authentication-Warning: ve7tcp.ampr.org: localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3COM 590 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:08:26 CST." <199802232108.PAA16463@unix.tfs.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:04:33 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Jim" == Jim Bryant writes: >> vx0 <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 11 on >> pci0:15 utp/aui/bnc[*bnc*] address 00:20:af:f6:e4:18 Warning! >> Defective early revision adapter! Jim> well, it looks like the EEPROM is returning data that makes Jim> if_vx_pci.c think it's an older card. no need to worry [?] Jim> the driver still loads, but beware... no comments in code Jim> concerning this.. check the archives... There was a defect in the early 3C595 cards (something related to incoming packet buffer lossage during copyout's). 3COM stated that new versions of the card with this bug fixed would have a specific bit lit up in the ROM (or one of the registers?). The vx driver was modified to look for this bit, and it spits out the warning above if it's not set. Later, 3COM decided they were not going to fix the defect, so the bit in question will never be set. Meanwhile, the vx driver has a workaround for the bug. That warning message should be removed from the driver probe. All this was discussed on the mailing lists (probably hackers) back in 1995 or so (shortly after the 3C595 hit the streets). --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 16:47:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00632 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00621 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08868; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:17:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA13492; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:17:15 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980224111714.53585@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:17:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit References: <19980222175710.04357@freebie.lemis.com> <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 11:04:14AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 February 1998 at 11:04:14 -0700, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: >> Mike, back to the discussion of policy. vinum needs some way to >> associate the buffer returned to the b_iodone function with its >> internal requests. CCD does this by including the buffer header in >> the internal request. The obvious alternative is to use one of >> b_driver[12] to point to the other information. The trouble is that >> scsi_strategy seems to use both of them. Consider a few >> possibilities: > > It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The > CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last > reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another > instance. Struct bufs are pervasive and keeping their size small > enough to be efficiently allocated is important. I'd have to go > look to see how close we are to a power of two in size right now, Or you could read my original message. 292 bytes. That's a long way whichever way you look at it. > but even if removing these fields doesn't shrink us down a malloc > bucket size, it will give us room to add things like pointers for > buffer chaining for larger than 64k I/O requests. Aren't 220 bytes enough? The original reason for me wanting to use this method seems to be based on misinformation. The only good documentation I have for buf(9) is from System V, where things are surprisingly similar. One big difference, though, is the way they should be allocated: Do not depend on the size of the buf structure when writing a driver (or any other module which needs binary compatibility). In particular, this means you must only allocate buf structures using DDI/DKI routines (for example, getrbuf). Static allocations are not allowed. I was having trouble in that area with my driver at the time, and I thought that a similar restriction might apply in BSD. Since then, I've found the problem, and the driver is running. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 16:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01125 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00823; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08872; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:19:44 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA13500; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:19:43 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980224111942.18559@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:19:42 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit References: <199802221804.LAA06017@narnia.plutotech.com> <199802221913.OAA00737@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802221913.OAA00737@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 02:13:16PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 February 1998 at 14:13:16 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Justin T. Gibbs said: >> >> It has been discussed before that b_driver* should go away. The >> CAM SCSI layer does not use these fields which means that the last >> reference in our code is going away. Please don't add another >> instance. Struct bufs are pervasive and keeping their size small >> enough to be efficiently allocated is important. I'd have to go >> look to see how close we are to a power of two in size right now, >> but even if removing these fields doesn't shrink us down a malloc >> bucket size, it will give us room to add things like pointers for >> buffer chaining for larger than 64k I/O requests. >> > Normally, we use statically allocated buffers (out of the p(hysical)buf > queue or the normal vfs_bio queue.) Except in the case of getccdbuf > and other schemes that can be deadlock prone, we generally don't allocate > buffers in a dynamic (and slightly more dangerous fashion.) The restriction > of power-of-two should probably go away with our allocator(s) anyway. It is > probably a good idea to use getpbuf rather than getccdbuf or whatever so that > whatever evil that might exist in our buffer implementation can be hidden. > Our allocators need to be cache-line-savvy, not pow-2-alignment-savvy, if we > need to optimize performance. How much difference does this make with a structure which is 292 bytes long? > The problems with getccdbuf aren't about alignment, but resource deadlock > issues, and also data transparency issues. Eventually, we need to more > coherently address the issues of resource deadlocks, but right now, the > best thing to do is to avoid dynamic allocations for things like buffer > headers, and make sure that there is enough of them, or be *extremely* > careful about their usage (using reservation or other primitive scheme > until we can adopt a better system-wide mechanism.) (That is one reason > why swap-paging with CCD or a UFS file is not a good idea, as of now. > Depending on vnode-paging is also problematical, but in practice much > less of a problem.) Wouldn't it make sense to issue a warning message when the free buffers go below a certain threshhold? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 16:53:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:53:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02000 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08887; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:23:06 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA13516; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:23:06 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980224112304.63148@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:23:04 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit References: <199802230022.RAA20633@pluto.plutotech.com> <199802230034.QAA08989@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802230034.QAA08989@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Feb 22, 1998 at 04:34:40PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 22 February 1998 at 16:34:40 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> Ugh. How else is a driver supposed to attach extra information to a >>> buf or group of bufs? The b_driver field was the only clean way I >>> could implement request fragmentation in the wfd driver. >> >>> From taking a 2 second look at the code, it seems that the problem is >> that you are attempting to store information in struct buf that should >> really be encapsulated in the atapi equivalent of "scsi_xfer" or as it >> is in CAM, the CCB. This structure would have a buf pointer in it. > > This means creating a new structure holding a buf reference and an > single integer counter, and then managing memory allocation for this > new structure type, and passing it around instead of the buf. Wouldn't it make more sense to pass around an extended buf structure, as ccd and vinum do? Put the buf at the start, and you can pass it to all the routines that normally hand buf structures: struct rqelement { struct buf b; /* buf structure */ int sdoffset; /* offset in subdisk */ int useroffset; /* offset in user buffer */ int sectors; /* length of transfer */ int plexno; /* we are in rq->prq [plexno] */ int sdno; /* subdisk number */ #ifdef RAID5 int psdno; /* subdisk with parity */ #endif /* Ways to find other components */ int driveno; /* drive number */ struct request *rq; /* pointer to the request */ }; > You're right, it almost certainly is the "correct" solution, but not > necessarily the simplest. *sigh* It's not much harder. The real problem is how to allocate them. As John pointed out, there's a possibility of deadlock. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 17:02:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04857 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA28613; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980223170226.17299@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:26 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19980223192721.04375@follo.net> <19980223124215.26572@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980223124215.26572@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:42:15PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney scribbled this message on Feb 23: > I'm starting a build with PRECIUSLIB set just to make sure... but I think > it's because of a stale /usr/obj... well, I just completed a build with: make BINGRP=admin BINOWN=jmg TMACOWN=jmg TMACGRP=admin SHAREOWN=jmg SHAREGRP=admin NOINFO= NOPROFILE= NOTCL= NOTERMCAP= -j6 PRECIOUSLIB= buildworld id: uid=10000(jmg) gid=10000(admin) groups=10000(admin), 0(wheel), 2(kmem), 5(operator), 7(bin), 66(uucp), 117(dialer), 666(gamma), 888(ftp), 996(tquest), 1000(jmg), 1021(bbs), 997(freecvs) and I had no problems with the build... I would of responded earlier but I misspelled PRECIOUSLIB the first time... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 17:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05179 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13122; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802240102.RAA13122@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:23:04 +1030." <19980224112304.63148@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:02:07 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wouldn't it make more sense to pass around an extended buf structure, > as ccd and vinum do? Put the buf at the start, and you can pass it to > all the routines that normally hand buf structures: No. You can't do this in a device driver - you're handed a buf by someone else, and you give it back when you're done. The problem is that the connection (in the wfd driver) between being given the buf and handing it back involves passing the buf pointer to someone else. To do this with a wrapper as you propose would involve copying the buf into the wrapper and then out again. Bleagh. And you'd still have to manage memory for the wrappers. Bleagh again. The real killer is that there's no universal fragmenting layer sitting on top of device drivers. Another mark for the SLICE stuff. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 17:12:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06437 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:12:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06389 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:12:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08911; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:41:49 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA13631; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:41:48 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980224114148.26366@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:41:48 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New SoftUpdates test kit References: <19980224112304.63148@freebie.lemis.com> <199802240102.RAA13122@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802240102.RAA13122@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 05:02:07PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 23 February 1998 at 17:02:07 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Wouldn't it make more sense to pass around an extended buf structure, >> as ccd and vinum do? Put the buf at the start, and you can pass it to >> all the routines that normally hand buf structures: > > No. You can't do this in a device driver - you're handed a buf by > someone else, and you give it back when you're done. Ah, yes, I'd forgotten the normal case :-) I need to allocate my own, because one high-level request can potentially spawn many low-level requests. > The problem is that the connection (in the wfd driver) between being > given the buf and handing it back involves passing the buf pointer to > someone else. > > To do this with a wrapper as you propose would involve copying the buf > into the wrapper and then out again. Bleagh. And you'd still have to > manage memory for the wrappers. Bleagh again. Right. In my case, of course, I'm forced to allocate new struct buf *s. Fortunately, since any transfer involves a contiguous fraction of the original request, I can just set bp->b_data to point into the b_data of the original buf, so the copying is of relatively small quantities. > The real killer is that there's no universal fragmenting layer sitting > on top of device drivers. Another mark for the SLICE stuff. Yup, when I have the first cut finished, I'll take a look at that. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 18:19:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:19:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16708 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:19:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22906; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022842; Mon Feb 23 19:18:45 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12744; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:18:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802240218.TAA12744@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: WY50 emulation for BSD To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:18:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: concept1@cswnet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802232037.MAA12281@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 23, 98 12:36:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We are trying to connect a BSD box to a SCO box via serial connection. > > We need a Wyse 50 emulator for BSD. Do you know of one? > > Why do you need a Wyse 50 emulator specifically? Are you talking to an > application that doesn't support the standard screen abstraction? > > Are you using the BSD box under X or on the console? If the latter, > the BSD console is very similar to the SCO Colour Console. www.censoft.com. I don't know if you'll still see my name in the files that ship with it, or not. I know that Wes Peters did a FreeBSD port a while back (despite FreeBSD's bizarre idea of control devices for what should be flags fields, and the seperation of modem control and non-modemcontrol from CTS/RTS processing). It is bar none the best "CrossTalk-Like" program for UNIX systems; it also happens to have been the first shrink-wrapped third party (ie: non-UNIX-vendor) product for UNIX. Of course, I'm a bit biased, having worked on it for several years in my dim past... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 18:40:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19891 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27619 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd027614; Mon Feb 23 18:31:52 1998 Message-ID: <34F23026.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:27:50 +0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What requirements need be satisfied before the softupdate hooks and mods can be checked into -current.? with soft-updates turned off these should have no real effect except for an improved syncer process. I can even apply them in a from in which they would be bracketted by #ifdef's if needed. I'd rather do that in fact and strip out the ifdefs later if it would keep everyone happier. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 18:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:51:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21435 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13615; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:50:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802240250.SAA13615@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:27:50 +0800." <34F23026.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:50:14 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What requirements need be satisfied before the softupdate hooks and > mods can be checked into -current.? > > with soft-updates turned off these should have no real effect except > for an improved syncer process. I think that the current feedback indicates that they offer worthwhile testing material. I'd say go for it now. > I can even apply them in a from in which they would be bracketted by > #ifdef's if needed. > > I'd rather do that in fact and strip out the ifdefs > later if it would keep everyone happier. I would have to say that that would be the way to go. I'd certainly recommend adding the code sooner rather than later. If it worked for the FAT32 code, it ought to work for you. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 19:12:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:12:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24007 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11809; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802240311.TAA11809@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:27:50 +0800." <34F23026.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:11:54 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We really need to have this stuff checked in for ease of maintenance and trouble shooting it. Perhaps a short readme stating that soft updates is still experimental and that in certain circumstances it crashes the system. Other than that , if soft updates is not turned on it does not affect your system. The only problem that I can see is Kirk's license so by default soft updates should not be compiled in, if you are hacker type then you can turn it on;otherwise, for commercial purposes see Kirk 8) Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 21:06:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:06:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nic.iagnet.net (cceska@nic.iagnet.net [209.57.92.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04622 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cceska@nic.iagnet.net) Received: from localhost (cceska@localhost) by nic.iagnet.net (8.8.8/IAG/CICNet) with SMTP id AAA01767 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:05:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:05:58 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher J Ceska To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Adding new user.... In-Reply-To: <199802240250.SAA13615@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am new to FreeBSD so call me crazy..... I am trying to add a user that can SU to root like on a linux or solaris machine. I understand the user has to be in the wheel group but what else am I doing wrong. It always tells me I am not in a group that can su to root. I am using DES. What do I have to do? (Besides buy a book) I am just evaluating this OS and I can't even make a user.... haha Thanks in advance. Chris -- Christopher J Ceska Network Operations cceska@qual.net http://www.qual.net alphapgr: chris-pager@qual.net 8884988020 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 21:21:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06173 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:21:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06134 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA01539; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001537; Mon Feb 23 21:19:29 1998 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:15:28 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Christopher J Ceska cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding new user.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you need to add them to the 'wheel' line in /etc/groups (comma separated) On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Christopher J Ceska wrote: > I am new to FreeBSD so call me crazy..... > > I am trying to add a user that can SU to root like on a linux or solaris > machine. > > I understand the user has to be in the wheel group but what else am I > doing wrong. It always tells me I am not in a group that can su to root. > > I am using DES. What do I have to do? (Besides buy a book) I am just > evaluating this OS and I can't even make a user.... haha > > Thanks in advance. > Chris > > -- > Christopher J Ceska Network Operations > cceska@qual.net http://www.qual.net > alphapgr: chris-pager@qual.net 8884988020 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 21:22:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06321 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.ainet.com (mailhub.ainet.com [204.30.40.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06305 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:22:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from ainet.com (jmscott@ainet.com [204.30.40.6]) by mailhub.ainet.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16775; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:15:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: by ainet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05801; Mon, 23 Feb 98 21:28:19 PST Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:28:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Scott" To: Christopher J Ceska Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding new user.... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I recall correctly you may want to check if there is a space between the comma and the next username. If there is a space there then that could be your problem. Here's some examples from the /etc/group file to highlight what I mean: wheel:*:0:root,dork,dufus,fungi,kungfu This entry would allow root,dork,dufus,fungi, and kungfu to su. wheel:*:0:root,dork, dufus ^ Again if I recall correctly dork will be able to su but dufus will not, simply because of the space. If I am incorrect, someone else please speak up, but I think that's what happend to me the first time I played with that :-) Joseph Scott jmscott@ainet.com On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Christopher J Ceska wrote: > I am new to FreeBSD so call me crazy..... > > I am trying to add a user that can SU to root like on a linux or solaris > machine. > > I understand the user has to be in the wheel group but what else am I > doing wrong. It always tells me I am not in a group that can su to root. > > I am using DES. What do I have to do? (Besides buy a book) I am just > evaluating this OS and I can't even make a user.... haha > > Thanks in advance. > Chris > > -- > Christopher J Ceska Network Operations > cceska@qual.net http://www.qual.net > alphapgr: chris-pager@qual.net 8884988020 > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 21:50:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10056 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:50:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10034 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id FAA14645; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:49:18 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:49:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Christopher J Ceska cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding new user.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You should also man vipw and adduser. You don't want to edit the passwd file directly so use one of the two. You might want to delete the user you just added and use adduser. In adduser you can invite the user to wheel and it will DTRT. Regards, Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 21:53:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10691 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10664 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28704; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:52:10 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA13616; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:52:10 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980224065210.51876@follo.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:52:10 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make reinstall References: <199802230648.IAA09454@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <19980223164417.51626@follo.net> <19980223093401.02499@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19980223192721.04375@follo.net> <19980223124215.26572@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980223124215.26572@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:42:15PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:42:15PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on Feb 23: > > Two places where I had problems with noschg yesterday: > > gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld > > and > > secure/lib/* > > as a result of setting LIB_PRECIOUS and using . > > I'm assuming you mean PRECIOUSLIB... Could very well be. It is used in secure/lib/*/Makefile, and the schg flag be set from . I never set it explictly. > > Do no-one else have problems with this? (The same tree built fine as > > root). > > well... you can't set the schg flag as a normal user... (and it doesn't > report an error?) did you have a stale /usr/obj dir from a build as root? It reports an error. I just want it to build cleanly. > I'm starting a build with PRECIUSLIB set just to make sure... but I think > it's because of a stale /usr/obj... I didn't use /usr/obj as the temporary. And I only had a newly created account with no group-privileges on the machine in question, so I don't believe anything at all would have worked if I had tried to build over a root-owned tree? I'll blow away the source and object-tree and do another test from source. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 22:01:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12160 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:01:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05007; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:00:50 -0800 (PST) To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:27:50 +0800." <34F23026.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:00:49 -0800 Message-ID: <5003.888300049@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What requirements need be satisfied before the softupdate hooks and > mods can be checked into -current.? Do they work with ccds yet? They should at least be fairly non-pathological with whatever filesystems one might wish to use them for, but beyond that I'd say go for it! Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 23:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20429 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:28:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20423 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07979; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:28:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199802240728.BAA07979@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:00:49 PST." <5003.888300049@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:28:26 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> What requirements need be satisfied before the softupdate hooks and >> mods can be checked into -current.? > >Do they work with ccds yet? They should at least be fairly >non-pathological with whatever filesystems one might wish to use them >for, but beyond that I'd say go for it! Yep, they appear to work now. :) I have been using them for a couple days off and on, and although I have had the occasional lock up, I think it is not the ccd's fault anymore. (Before, it would lock up when I tried to log in in X, or panic after some amount of disk io on the console. How do you tell what happened if you arae running X anyways?! This is quite frustrating.) FWIW, I have been having a terrible time with SMP kernels recently. I have consistently had it lock up when doing a find in a large page, after Netscape has been running for a while. It seems, the only truly stable kernel I have is one that was built several days ago, UP, with Terry's patches. When will these be integrated, anyways? :) Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 23:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21678 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21647 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01191; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:33:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199802240733.CAA01191@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: softupdates patches.. commit requirements? In-Reply-To: <199802240728.BAA07979@friley585.res.iastate.edu> from Chris Csanady at "Feb 24, 98 01:28:26 am" To: ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu (Chris Csanady) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:33:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Csanady said: > > >> What requirements need be satisfied before the softupdate hooks and > >> mods can be checked into -current.? > > > >Do they work with ccds yet? They should at least be fairly > >non-pathological with whatever filesystems one might wish to use them > >for, but beyond that I'd say go for it! > > Yep, they appear to work now. :) I have been using them for a couple > days off and on, and although I have had the occasional lock up, I > think it is not the ccd's fault anymore. (Before, it would lock up > when I tried to log in in X, or panic after some amount of disk io > on the console. How do you tell what happened if you arae running > X anyways?! This is quite frustrating.) > Some of the softupdate patches don't do the right thing for FreeBSD's specfs filesystem nodes. (devvp type things.) We cannot handle locking VBLK nodes very well, and I think that is the reason for the hangs. I'll pass along some mods to whomever commits the softdupates hooks. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 23 23:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23787 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (196-31-98-45.iafrica.com [196.31.98.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23739; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA11243; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:44:15 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199802232244.AAA11243@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: TenDRA C++ In-Reply-To: <19980223131630.40841@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Feb 23, 98 01:16:30 pm" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:44:12 +0200 (SAT) Cc: rnordier@iafrica.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney wrote: > have you gotten the dyanmic compiling working? so that you don't get > all the RSS text relocation messages? If you mean PIC, it seems to be working, from testing so far. There were some switches not set up correctly in the previous batch of files. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 01:15:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02699 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02691 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id KAA27793 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:13:20 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA03865; 24 Feb 98 09:19:53 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 24 Feb 98 08:37:23 +0100 Subject: errormessages Message-ID: <2d4_9802240919@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why dont errormessages contain an unique errornumber too? Like: "foo: Error#13: Smurf seriously overgulfed" "foo: Error#14: Smurf somewhat undergulfed" Then it would be easier to find the error, when somebody on the mailinglists writes "Hey, I got this message something like the Smurf was gulfed". An unique errornumber including the filename of the executable which generated it is much easier to write down too... A database of errormessages, explanations and fix'ems would be easier to search. Perhaps the numbers should be higher than the standard unix errornumbers to avoid confusion. Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 02:16:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11080 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23206 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:16:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802241016.CAA23206@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.mozilla.org/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:16:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, on March 31 the code for Communicator will be available for further info check out the web site. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 03:42:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA21482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:42:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA21477 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25378; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:30:51 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14273; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:49:36 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id MAA28644; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:41:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980224124102.06648@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:41:02 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, berend@pobox.com Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <1107.888263934@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <1107.888263934@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 11:58:54AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/berend/FreEasy.html > > Now at version 0.3. > > Please see the web page for a full description and installation > instructions. Tried it, like it. I have a couple of questions: - what's the security level on this ? It looks like connecting from the local host is enough -- that's a bit weak, even for a beta :-) - can it be abstracted to use, say, a Perl+Tk interface, or another front-end / Gui in general ? -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 04:42:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29499 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exrhub.exr.com (exrhub.exr.com [207.86.92.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29492 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:42:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ajgaliano@exr.com) Received: from athensnt2.exr.com (AthensNT2.exr.com [204.7.219.206]) by exrhub.exr.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA01683 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by athensnt2.exr.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565B5.0045CD66 ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:42:25 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: EXR From: "AJ Galiano" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <852565B5.004578D5.00@athensnt2.exr.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:39:44 -0500 Subject: How do I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the best method of associating a second ip address with my webserver? and how do I accomplish this? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 05:17:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03659 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA03654 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA05020; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:17:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA01208; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:17:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F2C87C.15456A5A@3skel.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:17:49 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AJ Galiano CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I References: <852565B5.004578D5.00@athensnt2.exr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG AJ Galiano wrote: > What is the best method of associating a second ip address with my > webserver? > and how do I accomplish this? > Not hard. The assumption is that this box is attached to a non-point-to-point (i.e. ppp) network. To add an IP address that is on the same subnet that the interface already lives on, ifconfig fxp0 inet new.ip.add.ress netmask 255.255.255.255 alias Obviously fxp0 would be whatever interface you have. If you are adding an address that is not on the same subnet, then the netmask value would be whatever is appropriate for that net; a normal whole class-C being the standard 255.255.255.0. I'm not sure if or how this can be done with ppp. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 08:07:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23237 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:07:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23229 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:07:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09003 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:07:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:07:03 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sent the message below to -questions, but got no answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:18:30 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. Hello, My system crashes whenever it runs out of memory. This is understandable, but I would much prefer that it used the swap partition I've provided for it instead. Here is what displays on the console when it panics: Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x9c fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01d1300 stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffd14 frame pointer = 0x10:0xefbffd20 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL=0 current process = 2 (pagedaemon) interrupt mask = bio panic: page fault Sometimes when I'm in Xwindows and running Netscape or xemacs, the system reboots spontaneously. I wrote a little program to try to reproduce the problem (it's attached after my signature), and that produced the above panic when the system got down to 532K free (as measured by top). I can find nothing in the system log that would indicate the source of the error. Could it be a hardware problem? Here is my dmesg output: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Mon Feb 23 13:02:39 EST 1998 root@ben:/usr/src/sys/compile/LOCAL5 CPU: Pentium (99.72-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 62742528 (61272K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 17 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 67 on pci0:2 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:6 ahc0: aic7870 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST15230N 0638" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4095MB (8386733 512 byte sectors) vga0 rev 0 on pci0:12 fxp0 rev 2 int a irq 9 on pci0:14 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:65:45:a8 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: WARNING: video mode switching is only partially supported sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis wdc1 not found at 0x170 npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to sd0a Intel Pentium F00F detected, installing workaround WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." #include #include #define CHUNK 1024 main() { off_t *ptr; while(1) { printf("Mallocing!\n"); ptr = malloc(CHUNK * CHUNK); sleep(1); } } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 08:49:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28654 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:49:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA28647 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:49:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7NGX-0002oO-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:31:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Snob Art Genre cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > I can find nothing in the system log that would indicate the source of the > error. Could it be a hardware problem? It is almost certainly a hardware problem. I often allocate all available memory on a development machine here (32MB RAM + 200MB swap). Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 08:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00659 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:58:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA25798 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:58:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id KAA19022; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:58:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:58:42 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I have a question... Right now, as the driver stands, if you get a sense return on a disk of 0x11,0x0c ("Unrecovered read error - recommend rewrite the block"), the driver does not attempt to do anything about it. Why? You're screwed in this case - the data is gone. But, some RAID controllers (notably the CMD adapters) will *FIX* such an error if you write back to the block. Here's the scenario: 1) You have a failure on a data drive. It gets reported back with sense ASC 0x11, 0x0c. 2) The driver does not attempt to do anything other than report the error. This sounds like bogus behavior to me. Here's why: You've ALREADY lost the data. There is no harm in trying to "fix it". Thus, why not do the following: a) Attempt a forced reassign of the block. b) If that FAILS, write zeros into the block. Why do these things you ask? Simple: 1) The error, if repeated (or even singly) may cause a panic. If its in a swap area, for example, you're screwed - you're probably reading back a page of an executable from the paging space, and if its corrupted you're going down. 2) If its a data file you MIGHT die. There's no way to know. 3) IF YOU DON'T "FIX" IT, YOU WILL GET KILLED EVENTUALLY. With a regular disk, (a) above will succeed. You may still crash, but at least you should come back up. If the data was a file, its gone anyway - likewise for a directory. There is no harm in trying to prevent FUTURE errors at that point. If you have a RAID adapter, you got the error because BOTH the parity and primary data were unreadable. (a) will probably fail; most RAID controllers refuse reassignment. Writing zeros will be buffered in the controller though - now the error is "gone". A rebuild (which should already be in process) now fixes the error *permanently*. What am I missing here, and why isn't this done? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 09:24:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:24:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (fw1.enc.edu [207.95.42.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04326 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:24:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owensc@enc.edu) Received: from itsdsv2.enc.edu (itsdsv2.enc.edu [10.1.1.9]) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29149 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:19:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:19:29 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Owens Reply-To: Charles Owens To: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: Determining CDROM volume label... how? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy... Is there a command line tool for doing this? There are times where Windows software that's reading my CD (via Samba) insists that I set the Samba volume label parameter to the CDROM's actual label. It is a pain to have to stick the CD in a Windows system just to find out what the label is... Thanks! --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu http://www.enc.edu/~owensc Network & Systems Administrator Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 13:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA11253 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id MAA24843 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:58:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:58:34 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so that I didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. You might say that you need a keyboard & monitor to set the IP address ? Not really. - You could come up snooping the ethernet - probe & find an unused IP address - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' (install.freebsd.org) - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP address. So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to my web browser and type in http://install.freebsd.org. If the machine hadn't booted, I'd get a web page from FreeBSD stating that. Once the machine had booted, the next time a hit 'refresh' on the browser, I'd get the first page of the install dialog. I think Cisco does something similar to this for their 'out-of-the-box' configuration. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 13:24:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13113 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:24:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (207-172-34-163.s36.as11.rkv.erols.com [207.172.34.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13027 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from localhost (crb@localhost) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00770; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:24:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) X-Authentication-Warning: quark.ChrisBowman.com: crb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" To: Christopher J Ceska cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding new user.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Christopher J Ceska wrote: >I am new to FreeBSD so call me crazy..... > >I am trying to add a user that can SU to root like on a linux or solaris >machine. > >I understand the user has to be in the wheel group but what else am I >doing wrong. It always tells me I am not in a group that can su to root. > >I am using DES. What do I have to do? (Besides buy a book) I am just >evaluating this OS and I can't even make a user.... haha You must but the persons login on the wheel line in /etc/group for instance mine reads: wheel:*:0:root,crb make sure you use a comma seperator and no spaces. I believe the default group from /etc/passwd is ignored. --------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com My home page To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 13:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13439 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:26:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA13847; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:26:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:24:22 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so that I > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. Sounds fun. > You might say that you need a keyboard & monitor to set the IP address ? > > Not really. > > - You could come up snooping the ethernet > - probe & find an unused IP address > - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' (install.freebsd.org) > - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP address. ... i.e., DHCP or IPV6 autoconfiguration ... > So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to my web browser > and type in http://install.freebsd.org. If the machine hadn't booted, I'd > get a web page from FreeBSD stating that. Once the machine had booted, > the next time a hit 'refresh' on the browser, I'd get the first page of the > install dialog. This does not sound scalable. Maybe the client could attempt to use DHCP to grab an IP, then do something funky to announce itself to the install machine; also, security is an issue here. Presumably you would only want to do this on a safe ethernet? What happens if two hosts are ready to install at the same time? The use of DNS you suggest is certainly a bad idea, though. Using DHCP might be best; perhaps we would offer a light-weight DHCP server as part of an installation package to have on your master install machine -- you give it the ethernet addresses for new machines to configure, the machines come up and do DHCP DISCOVER; the lightweight server responds with DHCPOFFER and a vendor field "freebsdinstall" set with its IP address, as well as the config information. The installing FreeBSD machine chooses this OFFER and finishes config. Then it connects to the install software on the master install machine to get further information. This allows multiple installs on a single submit, and has the installing machine contact a master location for information, where you could have your spiffy interface. Also, you can have multiple master-installers because they only do DHCPOFFER for hosts they know about ahead of time. > I think Cisco does something similar to this for their 'out-of-the-box' > configuration. I'm not familiar with the out-of-the-box-config, but have personally always used a serial console to set up my ciscos. I understand that they have a web interface though. I'm tempted to keep the web functionality on a fully functioning existing machine rather than stick it on the install floppy, though. :) I think both approaches have their place -- a master installer requires, of course, that one have an existing functioning machine, and that the DHCP arrangement work. I don't like the idea of sniffing to try and steal an IP, sniffing to find DNS, etc. Seems like a poor idea; the possibilities for conflicts are too great, not to mention the ability to pick up incorrect information! Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 13:27:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13554 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:27:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13545 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28397; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199802242127.NAA28397@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199802242058.MAA24843.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@monk.via.net> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199802242058.MAA24843.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@monk.via.net> you write: >didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. > >You might say that you need a keyboard & monitor to set the IP address ? Says who? > - You could come up snooping the ethernet > - probe & find an unused IP address > - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' (install.freebsd.org) > - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP address. This is all pretty much overkill, given that DHCP does that. Currently, it's not used by freebsd, but Jordan looked into it a bit (and maybe Mike will look more into it, since he's doing install stuff?). Getting a web server up and running to deal with the installation is an entirely different matter, though. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 13:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:43:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16198 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id AAA01323 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:36:10 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199802242136.AAA01323@amsoft.ru> Subject: simple way to alter maxproc/maxfiles To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:36:07 +0300 (MSK) Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What about adding some options to /etc/rc.conf on a matter of subj? I think it would be useful.. It may be done as a set of #... # Maximum number of processes in system (number or NO) # kern_maxproc=NO #... or as a more general interface like # Kernel tuning. Place a list of flags to sysctl(8) you want to set here. # kernel_tune="maxproc maxfiles ip_forw" # kernel_tune_maxproc="kern.maxproc=800" kernel_tune_maxfiles="kern.maxfiles=2000" kernel_tune_ip_forw="net.inet.ip.forwarding=1" I like the first way more. Because it's simplier and it's not a problem to add whatever specific tuning required to some /usr/local/etc/rc.d/...sh for more advanced user anyway. For generic use a set of kern.{maxproc,maxfiles,maxfilesperproc} is enough IMHO. What do you think? Should I send my rc/rc.conf patches to be reviewed? Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:00:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lt1.f-body.org ([208.153.164.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18909 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rob@f-body.org) Received: from snarfblat ([208.153.164.238]) by lt1.f-body.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09144 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:59:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rob@f-body.org) Message-ID: <007c01bd416e$8099c110$a7141aac@snarfblat.memberworks.com> From: "Robert Glover" To: Subject: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:51:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks... Has there been any progress on supporting Token Ring in FreeBSD yet? I'm rapidly tiring of Windows NT's instability as a workstation OS, and want to switch, but our corporate network is still Token Ring, and we're at least a year away from switching over to Fast Ethernet. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks! Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:06:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:06:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gateway1 (gateway1.dextracode.com [200.34.122.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20257 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:06:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcvp@dextracode.com) Received: from dextracode.com by Gateway1 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA17678; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:03:59 -0600 Message-ID: <34F344C2.6A0EDF21@dextracode.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:08:02 -0600 From: "J. C. Vazquez" Organization: Dextra Code X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A "bus error" while doing outb()/inb() References: <34EDFC45.E2DC6C33@dextracode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG J. C. Vazquez wrote: > Hi there! > > I'm getting a "buss error" (signal SIGBUS) doing I/O with inb() and > outb() to any > port. This is running under FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT, logged on as root. > Before this, I > do open("/dev/io",RW) and check any return error. gdb says that the > signal was > received in outbv()/inbv(). The following is an example: > > Š#include > ... > outb(0x70, 0x0); > x1=inb(0x71); > outb(0x70, 0x02); /* <-------- a "buss error" here, core nicely > dumped */ > ... > > Does anybody have an idea what's going on? Any help/comments will be > highly > appreciated. Thank you all. > > -jcvp- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Got it! I was closing the file descriptor used to open("/dev/io", RW). Removed that close, everything works fine now. :) -- +--------------------------------------+ + http://www.dextracode.com/-jcvp/ + jcvp@dextracode.com + jcvp@altavista.net +--------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:22:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22627 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22607 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA06746; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA06160; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:22:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:22:02 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Janowski To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like the way it works with Apple printers. With arp one associated the printer's ethernet address with an IP address and it sees that the packets are coming and probably something about and arp who has network query. You then can telnet or whatever, http, to the device. Doesn't require any voodoo network sniffing and magic DNS. Dan On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so that I > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. > > You might say that you need a keyboard & monitor to set the IP address ? > > Not really. > > - You could come up snooping the ethernet > - probe & find an unused IP address > - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' (install.freebsd.org) > - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP address. > > So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to my web browser > and type in http://install.freebsd.org. If the machine hadn't booted, I'd > get a web page from FreeBSD stating that. Once the machine had booted, > the next time a hit 'refresh' on the browser, I'd get the first page of the > install dialog. > > I think Cisco does something similar to this for their 'out-of-the-box' > configuration. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:41:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:41:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25461 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA20813 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:44:15 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA15727; Tue, 24 Feb 98 17:38:37 EST Message-Id: <34F34C72.3E22@njcc.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:40:50 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Joe McGuckin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I think it would be neat ^^^^ Note: not needed, or useful, but neat! > if the install code had a www interface, so that I > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? > So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to my web browser > and type in http://install.freebsd.org. If the machine hadn't booted, I'd > get a web page from FreeBSD stating that. Once the machine had booted, > the next time a hit 'refresh' on the browser, I'd get the first page of the > install dialog. So not only must the install diskette handle umpteen disk drivers, nic drivers and a nice generic VGA driver, not to mention modem drivers and PPP support, and a fair sampling of FAQs and READMEs to support an installation, you feel it also "should" have a web server, for those few people that want to install an OS without having to "scrounge up a keyboard & monitor"? I don't know about your machines, but most of mine have 1.44 Meg floppies, and I would be hard pressed to think all that could fit on a 1.44 Meg floppy! > I think Cisco does something similar to this for their 'out-of-the-box' > configuration. I suspect that Cisco has more space dedicated to this process that 1.44 Meg, but I am aware that a simple web server can be coded, it is (IMHO) a non- trivial undertaking. Most PCs I am aware of require a video card (of some sort) and a keyboard, though I am aware that many of the newer BIOSs may alow you to skip the POST test of the keyboard (and video card?), but if the machine has problems, where do the console messages go? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:51:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:51:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26466 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10376; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:49:22 -0800 (PST) To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:58:34 PST." <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:49:21 -0800 Message-ID: <10373.888360561@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so that I > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. Not a new idea - first suggested almost 2 years ago, in fact. What *would* be a new thing would be someone willing to implement this idea. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:53:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26891 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:53:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26877 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:53:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10414; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:52:55 -0800 (PST) To: "Robert Glover" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:51:48 CST." <007c01bd416e$8099c110$a7141aac@snarfblat.memberworks.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:52:55 -0800 Message-ID: <10411.888360775@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Has there been any progress on supporting Token Ring in FreeBSD yet? I'm No, and I doubt that there ever will be. Token ring is far too dead for anyone to want to start such a project now, not that they showed much inclination to do so even when token ring was less dead than it is now, and if your MIS department really wants to wait a year to switch to ethernet then I can only pity you. :) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:56:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ip126.directhost.net (ip126.directhost.net [209.67.132.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27544 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rode@directhost.net) Received: from ip012 (ip012.directhost.net [209.67.132.12]) by ip126.directhost.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA07542 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:51:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002901bd4177$2dc46040$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net> From: "Rod Ebrahimi" To: Subject: using tape Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:54:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a sony 8mm tape drive how should I go about using it on my freebsd systems? Thanks... Rod To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 14:59:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:59:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28257 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA218 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:01:26 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34F37A71@smginc.com>; Tue, 24 Feb 98 17:57:05 PST From: Adam Turoff To: hackers Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 17:57:00 PST Message-ID: <34F37A71@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ken Hansen writes: > Joe McGuckin wrote: > > if the install code had a www interface, so that I > > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. > > Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? For a regular box, no. For a toaster, possibly. There's an emerging market in rack mountable httpd/ftpd-toasters. I know of one vendor that hacked a NT to death so it doesn't use much in the way of resources and can boot an embedded system. Since we're talking about a standard Intel box whittled down into an embedded system, I wouldn't mind using it if I knew it was something like PicoBSD inside. :-) Expecting any toaster to support a web interface so you can config it from any box on the network isn't asking too much these days. (Now let's not pick nits about who's using a toaster and who has a keyboard and monitor port.) -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 15:07:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29704 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29694 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:06:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA42; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:08:47 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34F37C2A@smginc.com>; Tue, 24 Feb 98 18:04:26 PST From: Adam Turoff To: hackers , Robert Glover Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 18:06:00 PST Message-ID: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan writes: > > Has there been any progress on supporting Token Ring in FreeBSD yet? I'm > > No, and I doubt that there ever will be. Token ring is far too dead > for anyone to want to start such a project now, not that they showed > much inclination to do so even when token ring was less dead than it > is now, and if your MIS department really wants to wait a year to > switch to ethernet then I can only pity you. :) But...but...but... Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? Realistically speaking, aren't there bridges that can translate Token Ring to Ethernet? If you're installing FreeBSD, it's stupid not to use Ethernet. The h/w is cheap and the OS support is solid. The other 99% of the computers on your LAN are the anomaly, not the ethernetted FreeBSD box. (*) SneakerNet is slower, but costs less. :-) -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 15:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00287 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:09:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16888; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:07:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802242307.PAA16888@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Adam Turoff cc: hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:57:00 PST." <34F37A71@smginc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:07:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Since we're talking about a standard Intel box whittled down into > an embedded system, I wouldn't mind using it if I knew it > was something like PicoBSD inside. :-) You configure PicoBSD systems when you build their images, or by mounting their MFS. 8) > Expecting any toaster to support a web interface so you can config it > from any box on the network isn't asking too much these days. I expect my toaster to be secure and reliable. > (Now let's not pick nits about who's using a toaster and who > has a keyboard and monitor port.) Not many toasters don't; you just need to know where to look. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 15:15:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02137 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10618; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:14:37 -0800 (PST) To: Adam Turoff cc: hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:06:00 PST." <34F37C2A@smginc.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:14:36 -0800 Message-ID: <10614.888362076@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? Actually, while it may be more expensive (and I guess that depends on whether or not you just inheirited a truckload of TR gear from some company abandoning it and didn't have to pay a cent :-), I don't think it's exactly the *slowest* - doesn't TR operate at 16MBit/sec as opposed to the 10MBit/sec of your more pedestrian ethernet? None of which refutes my original point, of course, which is that it's still dead dead dead dead dead. It's dead, Jim, and it's not coming back for the sequel. Time to move on. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 16:16:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13696 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13641 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:15:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10303; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:45:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA19185; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:45:15 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980225104514.20263@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:45:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Rod Ebrahimi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: using tape References: <002901bd4177$2dc46040$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <002901bd4177$2dc46040$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net>; from Rod Ebrahimi on Tue, Feb 24, 1998 at 02:54:35PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 February 1998 at 14:54:35 -0800, Rod Ebrahimi wrote: > I have a sony 8mm tape drive how should I go about using it on my freebsd > systems? I presume this is a SCSI DDS drive. 1. Install it in the SCSI chain. If it's the first tape drive in the system, it will be recognized at boot as /dev/rst0. 2. You can use any program to talk to the tape. There's nothing very special about it. Normally you'll talk to the character device /dev/rst0 or the "non-rewinding" version, /dev/nrst0. When you finish reading or writing /dev/rst0, the driver rewinds the tape automatically, which is fine if you don't want to read or write beyond that point. If you do want to continue, use /dev/nrst0. 3. A lot of backup software exists. The traditional UNIX program is tar. The traditional BSD program is dump. There are also some other programs in the Ports Collection, notably amanda. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 16:17:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13808 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from float.eli.net (float.eli.net [208.131.4.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13789 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blkirk@float.eli.net) Received: from localhost (blkirk@localhost) by float.eli.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA28944 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI Bus redundancy... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been wondering about the scsi redundancy problems that come up now and then (read: I've been chewing on paint chips again). What parts are failing? In my experience, only disks have failed once installed; controllers have only failed during poor installations and very rare at that. But what I was really wondering, is this about have two SCSI cards on one scsi bus. On one of my old adaptec's it _looks_ like I can change the controller from ID7 to anything else. With a controller at say 6 and 7, would there be a way in software for both controllers to access the disks? Or even for the standby controller to just scan the bus now and then? Okey, I'm going off the deep-end, back to my white-out (old-formula). --Ben Kirkpatrick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 16:35:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17897 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:35:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from us.net (laurel.us.net [198.240.72.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17875 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:35:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jjw@us.net) Received: from q.jjw.us.net (q.jjw.us.net [207.244.202.2]) by us.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA29193; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:20:51 -0500 (EST) X-Provider: US Net - Advanced Internet Services - (301) 572-5926 - info@us.net Where Business Connects! (tm) -- http://www.us.net/ Message-ID: <34F351A5.167EB0E7@us.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:03:01 -0500 From: John Woodruff Organization: US Net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson , Joe McGuckin CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe McGuckin wrote: > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, > so that I didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor > [...] > So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to > my web browser and type in http://install.freebsd.org. > > I think Cisco does something similar to this for their > 'out-of-the-box' configuration. Yes, almost exactly. It's truly a wonder to behold. See: http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios111/tech1.htm for the inside details. Robert N. Watson wrote: > I don't like the idea of sniffing to try and steal an IP, sniffing > to find DNS, etc. Seems like a poor idea; the possibilities for > conflicts are too great, not to mention the ability to pick up > incorrect information! It works for Cisco. Nonetheless, it does sound woefully complex to implement on a floppy. I'd just like to see the existing install system expanded... -- John Woodruff, Sr. Network Engineer, US Net - 301-572-5926 Washington/Baltimore/Richmond ISP - $6.95/month for full PPP! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:10:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:10:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22642 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:10:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id QAA28713; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:58:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:58:47 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199802250058.QAA28713@monk.via.net> To: AdamT@smginc.com Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We had this same problem. There was a legacy AS/400 network connected to a few hundred PC's that we wanted to control via ISC-DHCP. We initially installed BSDI because it has token ring support. After a few weeks of the BSDI box causing network jams, we bought a Cisco 2503 router to bridge token ring to ethernet. Works great now. Oh yeah, we scrubbed BSDI off and installed FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:13:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23146 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:13:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23094 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA07148; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA07666; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:12:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:12:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Janowski To: John Woodruff cc: Robert Watson , Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <34F351A5.167EB0E7@us.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, John Woodruff wrote: > Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I think Cisco does something similar to this for their > > 'out-of-the-box' configuration. > > Yes, almost exactly. It's truly a wonder to behold. See: > http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios111/tech1.htm > for the inside details. Cisco has it easy, the PROM is exact for the box it's in, vastly minimizing the array 'kernel' services. BTW, doesn't the Cisco come with a pre-burned PC-Card memory mard that has all the IOS stuff on it? We are not talking about loading system software, with Cisco we are merely talking about configuring it, aren't we? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26971 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:25:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26964 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA29930; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:26:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:26:57 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Adam Turoff cc: hackers , Robert Glover Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > But...but...but... > > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? > > Realistically speaking, aren't there bridges that can translate > Token Ring to Ethernet? If you're installing FreeBSD, it's stupid > not to use Ethernet. The h/w is cheap and the OS support is solid. > > The other 99% of the computers on your LAN are the anomaly, not > the ethernetted FreeBSD box. > > (*) SneakerNet is slower, but costs less. :-) I wouldn't exactly call Token Ring slow just because it is only running at 4 or 16Mbit. The 16Mbit Token Ring network could run circles around any 10Mbit Ethernet network. On a heavily congested network, even a 4Mbit Token Ring network could outrun a 10Mbit Ethernet network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that Token Ring uses. CSMA/CD just isn't very efficient on a heavily loaded network. The CSMA/CD network (Ethernet) would spend more time dealing with collisions than it would passing usable data. FDDI and Arcnet have the same advantages. There was even an 80Mbit Arcnet proposal at one time, which would have been much better than Ethernet. Frankly, I would consider Ethernet just above SneakerNet in the protocol arena, not the other way around. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:49:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29880 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-x2-1189.jumpnet.com [207.8.67.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29873 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id TAA23441; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:49:06 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <10614.888362076@time.cdrom.com> From: Dave Marquardt Date: 24 Feb 1998 19:49:05 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:14:36 -0800" Message-ID: <85afbg314e.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.22/XEmacs 19.16 - "Lille" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? > > Actually, while it may be more expensive (and I guess that depends on > whether or not you just inheirited a truckload of TR gear from some > company abandoning it and didn't have to pay a cent :-), I don't think > it's exactly the *slowest* - doesn't TR operate at 16MBit/sec as > opposed to the 10MBit/sec of your more pedestrian ethernet? > > None of which refutes my original point, of course, which is that it's > still dead dead dead dead dead. It's dead, Jim, and it's not coming > back for the sequel. Time to move on. I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token Ring. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00167 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00160 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:50:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03036; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd003034; Tue Feb 24 17:41:33 1998 Message-ID: <34F375DA.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:37:30 +0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <10373.888360561@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so that I > > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. > > Not a new idea - first suggested almost 2 years ago, in fact. What > *would* be a new thing would be someone willing to implement this > idea. :-) > > Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message It's called an interjet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:51:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:51:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00150 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:50:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03083; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd003081; Tue Feb 24 17:42:43 1998 Message-ID: <34F37621.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:38:41 +0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Turoff CC: hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <34F37A71@smginc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adam Turoff wrote: > > Ken Hansen writes: > > Joe McGuckin wrote: > > > if the install code had a www interface, so that I > > > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. > > > > Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? > > For a regular box, no. For a toaster, possibly. > > There's an emerging market in rack mountable httpd/ftpd-toasters. > I know of one vendor that hacked a NT to death so it doesn't > use much in the way of resources and can boot an embedded > system. > > Since we're talking about a standard Intel box whittled down into > an embedded system, I wouldn't mind using it if I knew it > was something like PicoBSD inside. :-) > > Expecting any toaster to support a web interface so you can config it > from any box on the network isn't asking too much these days. > > (Now let's not pick nits about who's using a toaster and who > has a keyboard and monitor port.) for the cannonical FreeBSD toaster (even looks like one) see www.whistle.com (plug plug) > > -- Adam. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 17:54:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01299 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10423; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA22908; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:12 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff Cc: hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Dillon on Tue, Feb 24, 1998 at 07:26:57PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 February 1998 at 19:26:57 -0600, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > >> But...but...but... >> >> Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the >> planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? >> >> Realistically speaking, aren't there bridges that can translate >> Token Ring to Ethernet? If you're installing FreeBSD, it's stupid >> not to use Ethernet. The h/w is cheap and the OS support is solid. >> >> The other 99% of the computers on your LAN are the anomaly, not >> the ethernetted FreeBSD box. >> >> (*) SneakerNet is slower, but costs less. :-) > > I wouldn't exactly call Token Ring slow just because it is only running at > 4 or 16Mbit. Correct. There are other reasons to call it slow. > The 16Mbit Token Ring network could run circles around any 10Mbit > Ethernet network. I disagree strongly with this statement. > On a heavily congested network, even a 4Mbit Token Ring network > could outrun a 10Mbit Ethernet network, simply because of the > token-passing scheme that Token Ring uses. On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that Token Ring uses. > CSMA/CD just isn't very efficient on a heavily loaded network. The > CSMA/CD network (Ethernet) would spend more time dealing with > collisions than it would passing usable data. Correct. But token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. > FDDI and Arcnet have the same advantages. So why are they both so popular? > There was even an 80Mbit Arcnet proposal at one time, which would > have been much better than Ethernet. Frankly, I would consider > Ethernet just above SneakerNet in the protocol arena, not the other > way around. :-) I did some theoretical calculations a while back to show the amount of overhead in CSMA/CD and in token passing. I've forgotten the details, and I can't find the calculations, but the token-passing overhead was much larger than you'd expect. It's rather like the difference between catching a train and taking a car. Ignoring the speed difference between cars and trains, the big problems are: - Cars can become very slow in traffic jams. Trains are not usually susceptible to traffic jams. - You have to wait for trains. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 18:00:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (syH6q9Z01lOwT1iI+yLKZMogNTEbOtxE@tok.qiv.com [204.214.141.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02558 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id UAA00545; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:00:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01405; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:49:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:49:42 -0600 (CST) From: Jay Nelson To: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote: > I've been wondering about the scsi redundancy problems that come up now >and then (read: I've been chewing on paint chips again). What parts are >failing? In my experience, only disks have failed once installed; >controllers have only failed during poor installations and very rare at >that. > But what I was really wondering, is this about have two SCSI cards on >one scsi bus. On one of my old adaptec's it _looks_ like I can change the >controller from ID7 to anything else. With a controller at say 6 and 7, >would there be a way in software for both controllers to access the disks? >Or even for the standby controller to just scan the bus now and then? > Okey, I'm going off the deep-end, back to my white-out (old-formula). > >--Ben Kirkpatrick > This is normally done with differential controllers between two different machines -- and, yes, it works. I don't think it's possible with single ended controllers. Concurrent file access from two different machines is a _lot_ more troublesome because of the locking problems. I don't know of any standard Unices that support this out of the box. It usually takes two special daemons that run on both machines willing to communicate with each other. If you want both controllers on the same machine for high availability, you'll need to write some software to monitor status and take the appropriate actions if there is a failure. Otherwise, I don't see where you would see any benefit. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 18:01:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.linkdesign.com (relay.linkdesign.com [194.42.128.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02318 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael@linkdesign.com) Received: from cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com (host24.bln.de [194.162.193.232]) by relay.linkdesign.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA19553 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:59:40 +0200 (EET) Received: from Linkdesign.com (localhost. [127.0.0.1]) by cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24095 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:58:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Michael.Bielicki@Linkdesign.com) Message-Id: <199802250158.CAA24095@cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:58:44 +0100 (CET) From: Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com Reply-To: Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <85afbg314e.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24 Feb, Dave Marquardt wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the >> > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? >> >> Actually, while it may be more expensive (and I guess that depends on >> whether or not you just inheirited a truckload of TR gear from some >> company abandoning it and didn't have to pay a cent :-), I don't think >> it's exactly the *slowest* - doesn't TR operate at 16MBit/sec as >> opposed to the 10MBit/sec of your more pedestrian ethernet? >> >> None of which refutes my original point, of course, which is that it's >> still dead dead dead dead dead. It's dead, Jim, and it's not coming >> back for the sequel. Time to move on. > > I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some > others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token > Ring. > > -Dave Hmm, I worked sometime with switched token ring over XyLan switches (http://www.xylan.com) and the sutff was incredibly fast. I am looking for a driver for some time now but noone seems to be interested. Especialy for some of our customers who would like to run a freebsd box as a gateway to the net for there IBM based networks this would be perfect :) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Michael Bielicki Buisnetco Telecom. Ltd. Link Design International Ltd. 13 Iras Str., Office 23 65, Cliff Rd, Tramore Nicosia 1061, Cyprus http://www.linkdesign.com Co. Waterford, Ireland Voice: +357-2-362 421 Voice: +353-51-386921 Fax: +357-2-362 429 We use FreeBSD Fax: +353-51-390880 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 18:20:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06709 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:19:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23312; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199802250219.VAA23312@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dave Marquardt cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "24 Feb 1998 19:49:05 CST." <85afbg314e.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:40 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG marquard@zilker.net said: :- I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some :- others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token :- Ring. While everyone else is *making* Gigabit Ethernets. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 18:51:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10656 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpneal@pobox.com) Received: from kpneal.users.mindspring.com (user-38ld9k3.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.166.131]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11614; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980225025046.008e8ca4@mail.mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mail.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:46 -0500 To: Dave Marquardt From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:49 PM 2/24/98 -0600, Dave Marquardt wrote: >"Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: >> > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the >> > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? >I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some >others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token >Ring. Not surprising, considering IBM. IBM (or at least IBM in RTP, NC) has a _huge_ Token Ring network. We're talking networks of networks of Token Ring. Literally, there several thousand people sitting on the Token Ring networks inside IBM. Token Ring isn't quite dead yet, not as long as IBM is still kicking. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 19:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15970 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ABAMFICI@aol.com) From: ABAMFICI@aol.com Received: from ABAMFICI@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id HNMEa07795 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:48 EST To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: single key shutdown | pulling the plug ideas... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm just a sneaky little Linux user that started last month who's intrested in the whole FreeBSD idea, so if some of the stuff I say makes no sence whatsoever, please forgive me. I also deleted the original e-mail concerning this issue so I forget _all_ the details, but anyway. If you go out and invest less then $100 (US) or so on an AnyKey® keyboard, or anyother programable keyboard for that matter, you can program a macro that will preform a multi-key operation with just one key. For example, you can program that nasty and useless win95 key to execute the ctrl+alt+del sequence. You could also have it type out 'shutdown' (or whatever FreeBSD uses to shutdown) followed by a hard return. As for the matter of pulling the plug, well, this is a little sneaky and I don't know if it's what you had in mind. Just today while watching the news and eating breakfast I saw a commerical for a new powerstrip from APC. The beauty of this little thing is that is has a built in battery. I assume it won't last longer then 10 minutes, but the commercial didn't really say. It would appear logical to whoever sees you pulling a plug, to yank out the main source if you will, i.e. the plug coming out of the wall. The idea of taking out each individual plug (printer, monitor, comptuer, etc.) from the powerstrip is well, stupid. :) A small batter pack in the strip wouldn't necessarly be noticed, but I'm sure a large backup power box would which defeats the purpose of your demonstration if I recall correctly. Well I hope I've helped you out in some form. Good luck. ~Kevin :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 20:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24112 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24096 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp) Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta7-MX971215-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id NAA25219; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from nile.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-980127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id NAA13156; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nile.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16371 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:25 +0900 (JST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: errormessages X-Mailer: Mew version 1.91 on Emacs 20.2 / Mule 3.0 (MOMIJINOGA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980225131624C.seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:24 +0900 From: Masahiro Sekiguchi X-Dispatcher: imput version 970918 Lines: 24 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why dont errormessages contain an unique errornumber too? Because it makes users feel some thing like they were living in '50s or '60s. :-) BTW, > Like: "foo: Error#13: Smurf seriously overgulfed" > easier to find the error, when somebody on the mailinglists > writes "Hey, I got this message something like the Smurf was gulfed". I see no significant difference between that and "Error#13 occured;" It will only cause a flood of replys saying something like: "Just saying Error#13 helps nothing; the name of the quimmer is absolutely important to solve your gulfer problem. Was it Smurf, Snarf or Barf?" The point is, when we ask about the message we don't understand, we have to include *entire* message in its *complete* form in the mail. Since message numbers give users impression that just writing the number is enough, the bad practice of tightfisted question will be propagated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 20:25:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:25:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25586 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:24:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17980 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:23:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:23:26 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm looking at a Makefile that does: foo:: (set -e; cd foo; unset BAR BAZ; ./something; make stuff) Now, if I walk up to sh and say 'set -e; unset FOO' where foo doesn't exist, sh immediately exit. At this point, make throws in the towel. But GNU make doesn't, and for that matter, sh doesn't exit under GNU make either, despite the 'set -e'. So who's right? Is it correct behaviour for 'unset' to return nonzero if the requested variables weren't set in the first place? It doesn't seem to be intended that this command should fail (the entire item fails to build if that's the case...) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 20:51:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29233 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:51:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29165 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:50:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA04642; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA13020; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199802250450.VAA13020@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. In-Reply-To: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm looking at a Makefile that does: > > foo:: > (set -e; cd foo; unset BAR BAZ; ./something; make stuff) > > Now, if I walk up to sh and say 'set -e; unset FOO' where foo doesn't > exist, sh immediately exit. At this point, make throws in the towel. > > But GNU make doesn't, and for that matter, sh doesn't exit under GNU > make either, despite the 'set -e'. IMHO, under FreeBSD GNU make doesn't check for errors, and blindly continues on as if nothing bad has happened. This really *sucks*, since I've got a build environment from Solaris that only works with SysV make, so I use GNU make under FreeBSD and it dies in the middle of something but continues on (and keeps getting errors because previous dependencies weren't built). When I get back to the machine, I assume that the build work since the last part of the build doesn't happen to depend on anything that broke, so I don't see any errors and stupidly assume it actually worked and all heck breaks loose when I try to do something and it fails. :( It may be that our make is 'doing the right thing' in this case. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:27:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03842 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:27:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03832 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-79.cetlink.net [209.54.58.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01365; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:26:41 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:27:07 GMT Message-ID: <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA03833 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit >Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that >Token Ring uses. >token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. Can you back this up with performance test data? It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years ago in Data Communications. He said token ring would run at full 16mb wire speed while Ethernet would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. -- The day of the proprietary OS is over. Long live freed software. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:30:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04305 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:30:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04260 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA05245 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:30:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:30:08 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199802242127.NAA28397@kithrup.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Getting a web server up and running to deal with the installation is an > entirely different matter, though. Check out thttpd at www.acme.com/software/thttpd. Its "simple, small, portable, fast, and secure". The small part is interesting. Not small enough to fit on the boot floppy, but much smaller than anything else I've seen. For some comparisons: http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/notes.html#sizes And once it's compiled, it is pretty darn small: spork@oozing [~]$ ls -al /usr/local/sbin/thttpd -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 53434 Feb 13 01:10 /usr/local/sbin/thttpd At the very least it is a cool little simple webserver for a home workstation where you just want something simple. The bandwidth throttling is nice too... BTW, despite the name, everything at acme.com is free. Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com ---- "I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man Just a mortal with potential of a superman I'm living on" -DB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05282 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05238 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7ZCZ-0003HC-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:16:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:16:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <199802250158.CAA24095@cyprus.vds.linkdesign.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com wrote: > I am looking for a driver for some time now but noone seems to be > interested. It is not just a driver. The entire IP-over-token ring issue needs to figured out. You have to write a generic token-ring layer to handling token-ring addressing and encapsulation first, then you need to start making device drivers. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:35:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05488 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:35:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA11399; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:35:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980224233502.52745@emsphone.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:35:02 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. References: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com>; from "Mike Smith" on Tue Feb 24 20:23:26 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-970701-RELENG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 24), Mike Smith said: > > I'm looking at a Makefile that does: > > foo:: > (set -e; cd foo; unset BAR BAZ; ./something; make stuff) > > Now, if I walk up to sh and say 'set -e; unset FOO' where foo doesn't > exist, sh immediately exit. At this point, make throws in the towel. > > But GNU make doesn't, and for that matter, sh doesn't exit under GNU > make either, despite the 'set -e'. > > So who's right? Is it correct behaviour for 'unset' to return nonzero > if the requested variables weren't set in the first place? It doesn't > seem to be intended that this command should fail (the entire item > fails to build if that's the case...) hmm. I just saw this exact same problem in an Imakefile provided with the "vnc" program ( http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/ ); a PC-Anywhere-type program that lets you control a win95-PC or X-terminal from a win95-PC, X-terminal, or Java-enabled web browser. It's the first free app I've seen that lets you control a PC from X. I ignored the sh problem by just removing the offending "unset MAKEFLAGS MAKELEVEL". xmkmf didn't seem to notice the loss, and Xvnc works beautifully (after some other patches to get xmkmf to produce the right Makefiles). -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:37:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05882 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7ZFh-0003Ha-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:21 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: John Kelly cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, John Kelly wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit > >Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that > >Token Ring uses. > > >token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. > > Can you back this up with performance test data? > > It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years > ago in Data Communications. He said token ring would run at full 16mb > wire speed while Ethernet would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very efficient use of network bandwidth though. However, any kind of switched ethernet still blows it away. It does away with collision contention, and makes ethernet full duplex. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:42:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07202 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18191; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:39:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802250539.VAA18191@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:27:07 GMT." <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:39:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit > >Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that > >Token Ring uses. > > >token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. > > Can you back this up with performance test data? > > It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years > ago in Data Communications. He said token ring would run at full 16mb > wire speed while Ethernet would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. Empirical data indicates that useful throughput on Ethernet varies enormously as a function of traffic types. Giving a single number for throughput is a pretty damning conviction of any set of conclusions. This is more or less established Ethernet lore. If you'd ever seen Greg's shed, you'd believe the data was there. At any rate, given that he spent far too long working for Tandem I'd be inclined to give the claim some credibility. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:43:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07343 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07326 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7ZLU-0003Hz-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:25:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Adam Turoff cc: hackers , Robert Glover Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? Not so. Token ring operates at 16mbs or 4mbs. But anything built in the last five years is 16mbs, making it faster than ethernet. Token is also not a "networking protocol". It is completely different network design. Different cable, different hubs (MAUs), etc. I worked on a token-ring network about 4 years ago. It was the fastest LAN you could buy at that point. ARCNet has to get the award for slowest LAN. And yes, I'm still supporting some old ARCNet devices (still much cheaper to embed ARCNet is controllers and what not for device control). Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:43:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07400 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18213; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:41:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802250541.VAA18213@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Nelson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:35:02 CST." <19980224233502.52745@emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:41:47 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm looking at a Makefile that does: > > > > foo:: > > (set -e; cd foo; unset BAR BAZ; ./something; make stuff) > > > hmm. I just saw this exact same problem in an Imakefile provided with > the "vnc" program ( http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/ ); a PC-Anywhere-type > program that lets you control a win95-PC or X-terminal from a win95-PC, > X-terminal, or Java-enabled web browser. It's the first free app I've > seen that lets you control a PC from X. Funny, that's just what I was finishing a port for. 8) > I ignored the sh problem by just removing the offending "unset > MAKEFLAGS MAKELEVEL". xmkmf didn't seem to notice the loss, and Xvnc > works beautifully (after some other patches to get xmkmf to produce the > right Makefiles). Hmm, what did you patch? I just dug up some more-or-less right Imake templates off a stale Linux distribution and fixed an include in one file. I'll be committing it in a few minutes... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:43:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07501 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07475 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-79.cetlink.net [209.54.58.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02788; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Tom Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:43:50 GMT Message-ID: <34f5bd29.7750741@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA07479 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:21 -0800 (PST), Tom wrote: > Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a >bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very >efficient use of network bandwidth though. > > However, any kind of switched ethernet still blows it away. It does >away with collision contention, and makes ethernet full duplex. As long as all stations are directly connected to the switch. But in networks I've seen, only the bandwidth hogs are connected directly to the switch while the average user station is still attached to a hub. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:46:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08144 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08094 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:46:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-79.cetlink.net [209.54.58.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02991; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:45:57 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Tom Cc: Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:46:22 GMT Message-ID: <34f6bde0.7933531@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA08103 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:16:13 -0800 (PST), Tom wrote: > It is not just a driver. The entire IP-over-token ring issue needs to >figured out. I think the Linux folks have already done that, no? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:47:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA08502 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7ZPL-0003IH-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:29:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote: > I've been wondering about the scsi redundancy problems that come up now > and then (read: I've been chewing on paint chips again). What parts are > failing? In my experience, only disks have failed once installed; > controllers have only failed during poor installations and very rare at > that. > But what I was really wondering, is this about have two SCSI cards on > one scsi bus. On one of my old adaptec's it _looks_ like I can change the SCSI adapter rarely fail. It is possible to have up to two host adapters per channel. Someone the freebsd-scsi list is working on this. Rather than a simple backup design, he is working on simultanous use of both host adapters at the same time, by two separate computers. The two systems communicate to make sure they don't step on each others toes when accessing the disks. The idea is to make a fully fault-tolerant cluster. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11318 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marlin.exis.net (root@marlin.exis.net [205.252.72.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11257 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@exis.net) Received: from sailfish.exis.net (stefan@sailfish.exis.net [205.252.72.104]) by marlin.exis.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12819; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:53:32 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:48:27 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Molnar To: John Kelly cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > >On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit > >Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that > >Token Ring uses. > > >token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. > > Can you back this up with performance test data? Also as in real world, the network I use to admin was Token Ring, a mixture of Type 1 and 3. It was a whole lot faster in preformance when doing a diskless OS/2 warp boot than when we had to move to ethernet. Stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:54:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11392 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11386 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15042; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:00 -0800 (PST) To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: Tom , Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:46:22 GMT." <34f6bde0.7933531@mail.cetlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:00 -0800 Message-ID: <15038.888386040@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Argh! Who's idea was it to start a token ring vs ethernet round of penis-length comparison here? :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 21:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12516 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA12428 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7ZaG-0003J1-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:40:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:40:43 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: John Kelly cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <34f5bd29.7750741@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, John Kelly wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:21 -0800 (PST), Tom wrote: > > > Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a > >bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very > >efficient use of network bandwidth though. > > > > However, any kind of switched ethernet still blows it away. It does > >away with collision contention, and makes ethernet full duplex. > > As long as all stations are directly connected to the switch. But in > networks I've seen, only the bandwidth hogs are connected directly to > the switch while the average user station is still attached to a hub. You have to be connected to the switch for your ethernet to switched. You can't call an unswitched segment that just happens to touch a switch at some point a switched LAN. Besides I don't know anyone who does that. Nothing livens up a 10BT network like a Cisco Catalyst. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:00:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12833 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12805 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-79.cetlink.net [209.54.58.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA03975; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:59:54 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Tom , Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:00:19 GMT Message-ID: <34f7c0ad.8650028@mail.cetlink.net> References: <15038.888386040@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <15038.888386040@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA12809 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:54:00 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >Argh! Who's idea was it to start a token ring vs ethernet round of >penis-length comparison here? :-) > > Jordan I think it was somebody named "Jordan" when he said something about token ring being so "dead" that it wasn't even worth the effort of writing any code for. I guess the Linux folks had a different viewpoint. -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14070 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14065 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA15139; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:05:36 -0800 (PST) To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: Tom , Michael.Bielicki@linkdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:00:19 GMT." <34f7c0ad.8650028@mail.cetlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:05:36 -0800 Message-ID: <15135.888386736@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it was somebody named "Jordan" when he said something about > token ring being so "dead" that it wasn't even worth the effort of > writing any code for. Hey, I was just going by the evidence in front of me (4 year's worth of discussion about token ring and no actual implementation of same by all those folks saying how much they liked/wanted/needed TR support). I wasn't attempting to turn this into an ongoing debate. Someone also sent me private mail also saying "gee, thanks a lot for shooting down our token ring porting effort, you knob!" and I replied that if yet another token ring effort had started up then it was certainly news to me and I wished them luck, albeit with a certain cynicism about their chances based on past experience with all the other folks who claimed to be doing the same work and then just vanished into thin air. > I guess the Linux folks had a different viewpoint. More likely they were simply lucky enough to manage to find someone with both the equipment and the wherewithall to do the work involved. We've never run into the same situation here and I do hope that this latest effort doesn't go the way of the previous ones, but we'll just have to see.. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:06:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14182 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14174 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA16516; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:06:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225000641.64691@emsphone.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:06:41 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. References: <19980224233502.52745@emsphone.com> <199802250541.VAA18213@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199802250541.VAA18213@dingo.cdrom.com>; from "Mike Smith" on Tue Feb 24 21:41:47 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-970701-RELENG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 24), Mike Smith said: > > I just saw this exact same problem in an Imakefile provided with > > the "vnc" program ( http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/ ); a PC-Anywhere-type > > program that lets you control a win95-PC or X-terminal from a > > win95-PC, X-terminal, or Java-enabled web browser. It's the first > > free app I've seen that lets you control a PC from X. > > Funny, that's just what I was finishing a port for. 8) One of my coworkers was showing it off on his Linux machine, so I decided I has to get it compiled under FreeBSD before I went home... > Hmm, what did you patch? I just dug up some more-or-less right Imake > templates off a stale Linux distribution and fixed an include in one > file. I'll be committing it in a few minutes... The following _almost_ works. I must have forgotten a #define somewhere, as DBMLibrary gets #defined to 0, which screws up line 89 of Xvnc/programs/Xserver/Imakefile. The link line ends up with a "-lm 0" at the end. I'm not sure what lines 86-90 are trying to do (should I #define XFree86Version in FreeBSD.cf?). 1. Adjust the Imakefile in the root directory to remove the "unset" stuff 2. Create a minimal FreeBSD.cf file in Xvnc/config/: (This could probably be improved; I've never used xmkmf so I don't know what #defines are required. I just kept adding things until I got a clean compile) #define OSName FreeBSD #define OSMajorVersion 2 #define OSMinorVersion 2 #define HasPutenv YES #define HasShm YES #define AvoidNullMakeCommand YES #define BuildPexExt NO #define HasNdbm YES #define XvncServer YES #define DBMLibrary NO 3. add to Xvnc/config/site.def.vncxmkmf, around line 53 #ifdef FreeBSDArchitecture #define ProjectRoot /usr/X11R6 #endif 4. xmkmf ; make world ; ./vncinstall /usr/local/bin -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15427 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15388 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:11:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00460; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:12:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:12:33 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us Reply-To: Chris Dillon To: Greg Lehey cc: Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > I wouldn't exactly call Token Ring slow just because it is only running at > > 4 or 16Mbit. > > Correct. There are other reasons to call it slow. > > > The 16Mbit Token Ring network could run circles around any 10Mbit > > Ethernet network. > > I disagree strongly with this statement. > > > On a heavily congested network, even a 4Mbit Token Ring network > > could outrun a 10Mbit Ethernet network, simply because of the > > token-passing scheme that Token Ring uses. > > On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit > Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that > Token Ring uses. While I haven't actually done calculations on what the overhead would be for passing the token around compared to just spitting a packet out on an Ethernet, there ARE several more advantages I can think of besides a lack of contention for the media. For example, can you guarantee, mathematically, that you can get a given mount of data across the network in a given amount of time, worst-case? Can't do that with Ethernet, since it works too chaotically. In token-passing and polling based networks, you can say with certainty that even under maximum load, you can get a packet from one machine to another in X milliseconds. It offers a QoS you just can't get with Ethernet. I'm not arguing that Token Ring isn't dead... I'm just saying it isn't as bad as some people think and has its merits. :-) > > CSMA/CD just isn't very efficient on a heavily loaded network. The > > CSMA/CD network (Ethernet) would spend more time dealing with > > collisions than it would passing usable data. > > Correct. But token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of > load. I suppose that depends on the particular scheme that has been implemented. "Early token release", which I believe is implemented in FDDI, can reduce that inefficiency greatly. > > FDDI and Arcnet have the same advantages. > > So why are they both so popular? Why is Windows so popular? :-) I think we all know that just because a technology is in wide-spread use doesn't mean there isn't anything better out there. Ethernet became popular most likely because it was just cheaper, never mind the technical merits of all the other networking technologies out there. > > There was even an 80Mbit Arcnet proposal at one time, which would > > have been much better than Ethernet. Frankly, I would consider > > Ethernet just above SneakerNet in the protocol arena, not the other > > way around. :-) > > I did some theoretical calculations a while back to show the amount of > overhead in CSMA/CD and in token passing. I've forgotten the details, > and I can't find the calculations, but the token-passing overhead was > much larger than you'd expect. It's rather like the difference > between catching a train and taking a car. Ignoring the speed > difference between cars and trains, the big problems are: > > - Cars can become very slow in traffic jams. Trains are not usually > susceptible to traffic jams. > - You have to wait for trains. VERY good analogy. :-) The only reason I brought this up at all is because an old professor of mine sparked a light about just WHY some of these seemingly slower (judging by bit-rate) networks can actually be faster than their higher-bitrate cousins under certain circumstances. Same reason you shouldn't judge how fast a processor is just by its clock rate. I was merely hoping to belay some of the common misconceptions. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17052 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:19:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from callie.soffen.com (callie.soffen.com [209.61.94.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17010 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@soffen.com) From: matt@soffen.com Received: (qmail 413 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Feb 1998 06:23:58 -0000 Date: 25 Feb 1998 06:23:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19980225062358.412.qmail@callie.soffen.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Soffen CC: Subject: Unable to get NIS running on 2 differenet class c's. I am trying to setup a NIS server and a single client too. Both machines are set to the same domain (UltimateTV). The NIS server (206.230.220.131 - Running 2.2.5-RELEASE) appears to be running correctly. It is able to perform yp lookups, yp. I can do yppasswd and it seems to work. However, I am unable to get the client to bind (204.95.170.13 - Running 2.2.2-RELEASE). I have tried the following commands when starting ypbind: ypbind ypbind -ypset -S UltimateTV,mainfreebsd ypset -h freebsd -d UltimateTV mainfreebsd.ultimatetv.com None of these have worked. The ypset command times out and returns this error message: can't yp_bind: Reason: Can't communicate with ypbind Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:20:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17020 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:18:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19614; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:18:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd019598; Tue Feb 24 23:18:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10698; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:18:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802250618.XAA10698@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: errormessages To: seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (Masahiro Sekiguchi) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:18:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980225131624C.seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> from "Masahiro Sekiguchi" at Feb 25, 98 01:16:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Why dont errormessages contain an unique errornumber too? > > Because it makes users feel some thing like they were living in '50s > or '60s. :-) The big win here is internationalization of manuals instead of error messages. This actually makes a lot of sense for encapsulated messages (like sendmail). I've actually been thinking that it's about time someone built an RFC for message formats for log messages. I was thinking "STARTED", "READY", "SHUTDOWN", "STOPPED" would be a good start. Consider the case where you are trying to track a sendmail problem, and you don't have notification of "stop", only of "start" and "event". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:23:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18649 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20033; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019997; Tue Feb 24 23:23:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10871; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:23:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802250623.XAA10871@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:23:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jak@cetlink.net, grog@lemis.com, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Feb 24, 98 09:19:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a > bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very > efficient use of network bandwidth though. In fact, a token ring of N stations allows for N/3 - 1 simultaneous tokens (minimum, one) so that you can have multiple packes in process at once. It also allows for bidirectional, if you do it right (like FDDI does). The major win is that, with a lot of active stations, you can have more simultaneously active stations than you can have with a baseband implementation (CSMA/CA vs CSMA/CD). So there are good reasons for token-ring technologies, even if they are not obvious to small offices... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:26:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19474 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19451 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:26:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10780; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:56:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA27961; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:56:13 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980225165613.45832@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:56:13 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , Tom Cc: jak@cetlink.net, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <199802250623.XAA10871@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802250623.XAA10871@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 06:23:04AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 February 1998 at 6:23:04 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a >> bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very >> efficient use of network bandwidth though. > > In fact, a token ring of N stations allows for N/3 - 1 simultaneous > tokens (minimum, one) so that you can have multiple packes in process > at once. Ah. I was basing my calculations on a single token. Did 4 MB token ring have multiple tokens? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:28:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20144 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20044 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA10390 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:28:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:28:26 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Reply-To: Mike To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:54 PM 2/24/98 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >Argh! Who's idea was it to start a token ring vs ethernet round of >penis-length comparison here? :-) Hmm... exactly what I was thinking. I thought this was a forum for discussion(s) of technological implementation(s) in FreeBSD, not arguments over people's personal opinions about networking protocols/technologies... Ahh, well... I've been wrong before. ;) --- Mike Hoskins Kettering University SEI Data Network Services, Inc. CS/CE Dual-Major Program mike@seidata.com hosk0094@kettering.edu http://www.seidata.com http://www.kettering.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 22:49:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23265 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA23255 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 25751 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Feb 1998 06:56:17 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <34F375DA.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:56:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Joe McGuckin , "Jordan K.Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Feb-98 Julian Elischer wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> > I think it would be neat if the install code had a www interface, so >> > that I >> > didn't need to scrounge up a keyboard & monitor in install freebsd. >> >> Not a new idea - first suggested almost 2 years ago, in fact. What >> *would* be a new thing would be someone willing to implement this >> idea. :-) >> >> Jordan >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > It's called an interjet Ignorants Have a Stupid Question Corner: What else are we going to put on the boot floppy? -- Or -- All this for fdisk && disklabel && cpio && tar && I-am-done ? Wow! I should retire soon... ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 23:07:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25934 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25920 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28272; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028225; Wed Feb 25 00:06:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12884; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:06:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802250706.AAA12884@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:06:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, jak@cetlink.net, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org In-Reply-To: <19980225165613.45832@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 25, 98 04:56:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In fact, a token ring of N stations allows for N/3 - 1 simultaneous > > tokens (minimum, one) so that you can have multiple packes in process > > at once. > > Ah. I was basing my calculations on a single token. Did 4 MB token > ring have multiple tokens? I don't know; I think so. But the saturation was certainly calculated on segment-to-adressee. In general you can assume 50% saturation (50% will be above the halfway mark, and 50% below), on top of which you can add 100% utilization (instead of 85% -- see Knuth on "hashing"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 23:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26169 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26126 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-79.cetlink.net [209.54.58.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA05624; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:21:11 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:21:36 GMT Message-ID: <34f8c398.9396678@mail.cetlink.net> References: <15135.888386736@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <15135.888386736@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id XAA26127 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:05:36 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> I guess the Linux folks had a different viewpoint. > >More likely they were simply lucky enough to manage to find someone >with both the equipment and the wherewithall to do the work involved. >I wasn't attempting to turn this into an ongoing debate. Someone also >sent me private mail also saying "gee, thanks a lot for shooting down >our token ring porting effort, you knob!" >folks who claimed to be doing the same work ... vanished into thin air. How hard can it be to take the work done for Linux and scrub the GPL out and BSD-ify it? You can't copy code verbatim without plagiarism but all the ideas and algorithms can be freely extracted and "re-written." That's what's so great about freed software. -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 23:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28750 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15593; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:26:12 -0800 (PST) To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:21:36 GMT." <34f8c398.9396678@mail.cetlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:26:12 -0800 Message-ID: <15589.888391572@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How hard can it be to take the work done for Linux and scrub the GPL > out and BSD-ify it? I dunno - why not try it and let *us* know? :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 23:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01954 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA01932 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:47:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 14183 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Feb 1998 07:47:19 +0000 (GMT) To: cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:12:33 -0600 (CST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:47:19 +0100 Message-ID: <14181.888392839@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > For example, can you guarantee, > mathematically, that you can get a given mount of data across the network > in a given amount of time, worst-case? Can't do that with Ethernet, since > it works too chaotically. In token-passing and polling based networks, > you can say with certainty that even under maximum load, you can get a > packet from one machine to another in X milliseconds. Sorry, it's not that simple. On a token ring network, tokens can get lost. Yes, this happens in real life. So any "guarantee" that you give for token ring networks is based on statistics. Same with Ethernet. On a 10 Mbps Ethernet, the maximum accumulated waiting time for one station to send is 367 ms (corresponding to the 15th collision). You can give a statistical "guarantee" that the 15 collision case is extremely unlikely in a well constructed Ethernet. > The only reason I brought this up at all is > because an old professor of mine sparked a light about just WHY some of > these seemingly slower (judging by bit-rate) networks can actually be > faster than their higher-bitrate cousins under certain circumstances. > Same reason you shouldn't judge how fast a processor is just by its clock > rate. I was merely hoping to belay some of the common misconceptions. :-) Unfortunately, repeating the old slogan about how Token ring is deterministic and Ethernet is not, is *adding* to the misconceptions. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 24 23:59:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03877 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:59:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell3.ba.best.com (gena@shell3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03863 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gena@shell3.ba.best.com) Received: (from gena@localhost) by shell3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id XAA16172 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:59:14 -0800 (PST) From: Gennadiy Gulchin Message-Id: <199802250759.XAA16172@shell3.ba.best.com> Subject: crc error -- System halted To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:59:14 -0800 (PST) Organization: MCCP dot com X-Class: Fast Reply-to: gena@MCCP.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to install FreeBSD 2.2.5 on: Seagate Barracuda Ultra Wide SCSI (4G) IDE CD-ROM Drive and I receive crc error -- System Halted I've tried to install from CD/floppy and I get the same results. I've tried to look for the error on www.freebsd.org -> nothing. Any help would be appreciated Gena Gulchin gena@MCCP.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 00:09:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05149 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05115 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA20399; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:09:22 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:56:59 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Rod Ebrahimi cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: using tape In-Reply-To: <002901bd4177$2dc46040$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Rod Ebrahimi wrote: % I have a sony 8mm tape drive how should I go about using it on my freebsd % systems? 1) Connect it (SCSI/IDE?) 2) Figure out what type it is and see if it is supported by FreeBSD 3) if it is go to step 12345678 4) write device driver for it. ... [couple of steps left out] 12345678) do a 'mt -f /dev/nrst status'. 12345679) If all is good, the drive decides to have a look at the tape and return some information about it. Nick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Changed offices... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STA-ISIS, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 00:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06617 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA06604 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA03918; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:21:12 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA00591; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:22:53 +0200 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:22:53 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Greg Lehey cc: Terry Lambert , Tom , jak@cetlink.net, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <19980225165613.45832@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wed, 25 February 1998 at 6:23:04 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> Yes, it is true. 16mbs token ring is quite fast. Token-passing is a > >> bit of problem with large numbers of stations. Token networks make very > >> efficient use of network bandwidth though. > > > > In fact, a token ring of N stations allows for N/3 - 1 simultaneous > > tokens (minimum, one) so that you can have multiple packes in process > > at once. > > Ah. I was basing my calculations on a single token. Did 4 MB token > ring have multiple tokens? AFAIK no. 4mb token ring did not have early token release, which is what makes multiple packets/ring possible. A transmitting station used to hold the token until it got back the packet it transmitted. > > Greg > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 00:36:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:36:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07891 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05632; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:24:27 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15580; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:43:15 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA23769; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:34:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980225093431.63643@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:34:31 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <10373.888360561@time.cdrom.com> <34F375DA.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <34F375DA.41C67EA6@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:37:30AM +0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes: > > Not a new idea - first suggested almost 2 years ago, in fact. What > > *would* be a new thing would be someone willing to implement this > > idea. :-) > > It's called an interjet Hey great, where can I download the software ? :-) -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 02:33:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20373 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA20355 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Message-Id: <199802251032.CAA20355@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 22741 invoked from network); 25 Feb 1998 02:34:03 -0000 Received: from ins8.tama-ap3.dti.ne.jp (HELO chiota.signet.or.jp) (203.181.67.8) by wafu.netgate.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 1998 02:34:03 -0000 Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (localhost.signet.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01365; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:31:49 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:31:49 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Now, global(1) in -current can understand 'obj' directory of BSD build system, you can put tag files in 'obj' directory. For example, % cd /usr/src/sys % gtags /usr/obj/usr/src/sys <- make tag files in 'obj' directory. % ls GTAGS ls: GTAGS: No such file or directory % global -x fork <- global locates GTAGS file in 'obj'. fork 86 kern/kern_fork.c fork(p, uap, retval) So, if you want to keep 'src' directory read-only, following modification would be useful I think. [/usr/share/mk/bsd.prog.mk] --------------------------------------------------------------------- .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR .if defined(PROG) cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} ...(1) .if defined(HTML) cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} ...(2) .endif .endif .endif --------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) Gtags put tag files in ${.OBJDIR}. (2) Htags locates tag files in ${.OBJDIR} and put hypertext in ${.OBJDIR}. By the way, current gtags makes GSYMS file by default. If you think it is too large, you can use -o option like this. (-o option suppress making GSYMS file.) [/usr/share/mk/sys.mk] --------------------------------------------------------------------- # For tags rule. GTAGSFLAGS= -o HTAGSFLAGS= --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 02:44:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21729 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:44:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21664 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id LAA10641; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:43:53 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:43:52 +0100 (MET) To: Joe McGuckin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <199802242058.MAA24843@monk.via.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 25 Feb 1998 11:43:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: Joe McGuckin's message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:58:34 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe McGuckin writes: > - You could come up snooping the ethernet > - probe & find an unused IP address > - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' (install.freebsd.org) > - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP address. > > So, I'd put the boot floppy in the machine, hit reset, go over to my web browser > and type in http://install.freebsd.org. If the machine hadn't booted, I'd > get a web page from FreeBSD stating that. Once the machine had booted, > the next time a hit 'refresh' on the browser, I'd get the first page of the > install dialog. No you wouldn't, because the correct IP for install.freebsd.org would have been cached, so you'd keep getting the "web page from FreeBSD stating that [the machine hadn't booted]". Also, "probe & find an unused IP address" is not something I would want to do (or allow) on any IP network I should have the (dis)pleasure of administrating. A laptop and a null-modem cable - now we're talking... -- "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out." (Michael Press on a.s.r) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 03:14:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24451 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-14.comnet.ca [206.75.140.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24408 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: from darkstar.tomqnx.com by TomQNX.tomqnx.com with smtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0y7els-00081AC; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:13:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004401bd41de$32670780$032b96cd@darkstar.tomqnx.com> From: "Tom Torrance" To: "Adam Turoff" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "hackers" , "Robert Glover" Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:12:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id DAA24415 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dead? I don't think so. We have 43,000 people on TR where I work. Small business popularity does not equate to corporate. Regards, Tom -----Original Message----- From: Jordan K. Hubbard To: Adam Turoff Cc: hackers ; Robert Glover Date: February 24, 1998 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? >> Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the >> planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? > >Actually, while it may be more expensive (and I guess that depends on >whether or not you just inheirited a truckload of TR gear from some >company abandoning it and didn't have to pay a cent :-), I don't think >it's exactly the *slowest* - doesn't TR operate at 16MBit/sec as >opposed to the 10MBit/sec of your more pedestrian ethernet? > >None of which refutes my original point, of course, which is that it's >still dead dead dead dead dead. It's dead, Jim, and it's not coming >back for the sequel. Time to move on. > > Jordan > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 03:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27022 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:49:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27013 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09328; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:37:23 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15978; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:56:12 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id MAA01789; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:47:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980225124742.57622@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:47:42 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Tom Torrance Cc: Adam Turoff , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <004401bd41de$32670780$032b96cd@darkstar.tomqnx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <004401bd41de$32670780$032b96cd@darkstar.tomqnx.com>; from Tom Torrance on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 06:12:01AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom Torrance writes: > Dead? I don't think so. We have 43,000 people on TR where > I work. Small business popularity does not equate to corporate. What Jordan means, is that a) there is not a big popularity for TR in the FreeBSD community b) the two people that ever showed sudden "I'll do it!" enthusiasm have never surfaced again, even though I offered several Kilos of TR cards lying here. I might even be able to bribe some people on copying the specs[1]. So, one can say that, if TR isn't dead, it damn well acts like it is. [1]: Driver developer: I'd like to make a comment! IBM/Olicom/Whatever: Call the help desk. DD: Never mind. I wish to complain about this product called Token Ring. I/O: What's wrong with it ? DD: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it! I/O: Uh uh. It's... resting. DD: Look matey, I know a dead TR when I see one. I/O: He's resting! Remarkable card, the TR. Beautiful specs! DD: (slams the TR card on the counter to the words: this *slam* TR *slam* is *slam* DEAD! I/O: ... well... DD: ... so can I please have the specs anyway. I/O: No, sorry, you need to sign an NDA and pay up. *click* Thank GOD they're dead. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 04:04:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA29259 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA29086 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id HAA10812; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id HAA18716; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:03:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Janowski To: Terry Lambert cc: Tom , jak@cetlink.net, grog@lemis.com, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <199802250623.XAA10871@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > It also allows for bidirectional, if you do it right (like FDDI does). Someone said, before, the kernel would need stuff in it to merely deal with the token-passing architecture. After that, network drivers could be written. Don't we already have FDDI? Does it provide a similar token-passing substructure? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 04:49:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05083 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05026 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA00493; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:48:40 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:48:39 +0100 (MET) To: ABAMFICI@aol.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: single key shutdown | pulling the plug ideas... References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 25 Feb 1998 13:48:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: ABAMFICI@aol.com's message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:48 EST" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ABAMFICI@aol.com writes: > source if you will, i.e. the plug coming out of the wall. The idea of taking > out each individual plug (printer, monitor, comptuer, etc.) from the > powerstrip is well, stupid. :) A small batter pack in the strip wouldn't > necessarly be noticed, but I'm sure a large backup power box would which > defeats the purpose of your demonstration if I recall correctly. I think you misunderstood. What he wanted was a simple way to shut down FreeBSD gracefully (without suing to root and typing fasthalt) because the personnel in charge of the machine at the trade show is not competent enough to do so. In an ATX/APM system, it should be possible to keep the motherboard from shutting off power when the on/off switch is pressed. You would catch the event and wire it to fasthalt the way CTRL-ALT-DEL is wired to fastboot. -- "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out." (Michael Press on a.s.r) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 04:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05396 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05373 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 04:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20397; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:50:31 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA19381; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:50:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980225135033.52962@follo.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:50:33 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. References: <199802251032.CAA20355@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199802251032.CAA20355@hub.freebsd.org>; from Shigio Yamaguchi on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:31:49PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:31:49PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > So, if you want to keep 'src' directory read-only, following modification > would be useful I think. _Please_ submit changes as diffs. If you do, I'll run them through a buildworld and commit them (provided they don't break the build). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 05:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11952 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA11878; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-52.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.180]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA14257; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id FAA18637; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:54:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:54:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802251354.FAA18637@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: tom@sdf.com CC: blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Tom on Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:29:27 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Redirected to -scsi) * SCSI adapter rarely fail. I've seen one that fried itself. Adaptec 3940UW (the fried chip was actually the PCI-PCI bridge). * It is possible to have up to two host adapters per channel. Yes. We've tried it before, with a couple of patches from Justin (since merged to the main source), we could get it to work. (The same single-ended controllers as above.) * Someone the freebsd-scsi list is working on this. Rather than a simple * backup design, he is working on simultanous use of both host adapters at * the same time, by two separate computers. The two systems communicate to * make sure they don't step on each others toes when accessing the disks. * The idea is to make a fully fault-tolerant cluster. We're working on something similar, although not as extensible as what you described. The plan is to have all disks mounted read-only from both systems during normal operation. When there is a write, it first gets unmounted from one machine before it gets written on the other. Note we haven't actually done anything about this (except making sure both systems boot and we can at least get disks to work if we only mount it from one system at a time). Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 05:56:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12524 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12258; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-52.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.180]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA14264; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id FAA18645; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802251356.FAA18645@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: tom@sdf.com CC: blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Tom on Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:29:27 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Redirected to -scsi) * SCSI adapter rarely fail. By the way, we're more concerned about network switch/cable/PC/power supply failures, rather than adapters. There are so many things that can take down a machine, and if it's the single connection from the disk to the network, it's not good. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 05:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13215 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id OAA17327 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:55:02 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA03828; 25 Feb 98 14:57:00 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 25 Feb 98 14:46:31 +0100 Subject: Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. Message-ID: Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 25 Feb 98 13:50:33 Eivind Eklund (2:234/49.99) wrote to All regarding Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. in area "freebsd-hacker" EE> On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:31:49PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: EE>> So, if you want to keep 'src' directory read-only, following EE> modification EE>> would be useful I think. EE> EE> _Please_ submit changes as diffs. If you do, I'll run them EE> through a buildworld and commit them (provided they don't break EE> the build). Do I have a reasonable chance for getting changes in the makefile in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac commited too? :-) Currently the obj-dir needs to be writable during an installworld (well, at least installmost as I tried), because beforeinstall makes two temp files in obj. I would like to have /usr/src and /usr/obj read-only to make installmost to "slave machines" over NFS. I have submitted this as a bug to the gnats as gnu/5841 Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:08:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16125 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA16116 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Wed Feb 25 08:57 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA00699 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:03:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:06:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: joe@via.net, robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:06:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > > - You could come up snooping the ethernet > > - probe & find an unused IP address > > - look for DNS query packets - looking for a 'magic name' > (install.freebsd.org) > > - if you see that, send a reply out the ethernet with your IP > address. > > ... i.e., DHCP or IPV6 autoconfiguration ... > Another option is to do like some print servers: you put manually the ARP record to your browser machine, then do telnet to some special port (or not special port, or not telnet but http connection) and the new machine reads its IP address from the first received non-broadcast packet. I guess it's simpler than a small DHCP server. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18823 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA18645 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: from section05 (morse.sarnoff.com [130.33.10.158]) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA10531 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:04:01 -0500 Received: by section05 (SMI-8.6/SECTION05-Client) id OAA25733; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:03:49 GMT Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:03:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@morse To: hackers Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <34F37A71@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > Ken Hansen writes: > > Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? > For a regular box, no. For a toaster, possibly. we have a 128-node cluster here at sarnoff. no keyboards, no monitors, no display cards. Needless to say, keyboard-less admin protocols look like a good idea from here :-) "toaster". Now that's a good model. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20880 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA04967; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:30:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:30:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Robert Glover cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <007c01bd416e$8099c110$a7141aac@snarfblat.memberworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Robert Glover wrote: > Has there been any progress on supporting Token Ring in FreeBSD yet? I'm > rapidly tiring of Windows NT's instability as a workstation OS, and want to > switch, but our corporate network is still Token Ring, and we're at least a > year away from switching over to Fast Ethernet. I'm working on a few other things as a prelude to doing Token Ring support. (I'm also waiting on SMC to get me the SDK for their TokenElite product.) There are a few other prople who have expressed an interest and have actually got some code but until the 802.2/802.5 code is written just having device drivers won't do us much. Feel free to jump in or come back and ask again in 6 months. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:32:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA20983 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Wed Feb 25 08:14 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA15653 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:31:34 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:33:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: jjw@us.net, danj@3skel.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:33:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Dan Janowski[SMTP:danj@3skel.com] > > Cisco has it easy, the PROM is exact for the box it's in, vastly > minimizing the array 'kernel' services. BTW, doesn't the Cisco come > with a pre-burned PC-Card memory mard that has all the IOS stuff > on it? We are not talking about loading system software, with > Cisco we are merely talking about configuring it, aren't we? > By the way, did someone tried to load FreeBSD from ROM ? Something like Flash ROM card installed into a box through some adapter ? -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:41:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24729 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:41:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA26806; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:41:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com cc: joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > > ... i.e., DHCP or IPV6 autoconfiguration ... > > Another option is to do like some print servers: you put manually > the ARP record to your browser machine, then do telnet to > some special port (or not special port, or not telnet but http > connection) and the new machine reads its IP address from the > first received non-broadcast packet. > > I guess it's simpler than a small DHCP server. DHCP has the advantage of allowing arbitrary configuration information to be passed, and already having a defined format for the delivery of most if not all standard IP configuration information. On the other hand, arp is light-weight. :) I prefer to not have the machine sniff the network to find config information -- might get confused if there are multiple routers on the network already (and hence multiple gateways), or multiple IP ranges on the network. This way the configuration server gets to specify what IP it comes up on, preventing conflicts and allowing you to find your new machine once it comes up :). You also know that it has come up as DHCP involves a 2-phase process with acknowledgement -- if you don't get DHCPREQUEST then it didn't like your DHCPOFFER, etc. To prevent the host from accepting normal DHCPOFFERs from its DHCPDISCOVER, we require that the DHCP server provide a vendor tag indicating it is the/a configuration server. ISC has a formidible-looking DHCP server these days. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:44:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25594 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA26841; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:44:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:42:15 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Terry Lambert cc: Masahiro Sekiguchi , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: errormessages In-Reply-To: <199802250618.XAA10698@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > The big win here is internationalization of manuals instead of error > messages. > > This actually makes a lot of sense for encapsulated messages (like > sendmail). > > I've actually been thinking that it's about time someone built an RFC > for message formats for log messages. I was thinking "STARTED", "READY", > "SHUTDOWN", "STOPPED" would be a good start. > > Consider the case where you are trying to track a sendmail problem, and > you don't have notification of "stop", only of "start" and "event". There was a universal logging BOF at December IETF -- I'm not sure what conclusions were reached as I was at the security area session. :) I am sure that internationalization was a big issue, was was security, etc. There's probably a web page somewhere with the minutes, I would guess. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25725 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:45:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25669 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12163; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:33:21 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA16209; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:52:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id PAA04180; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:43:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980225154338.34463@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:43:38 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:33:45AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sbabkin@dcn.att.com writes: > By the way, did someone tried to load FreeBSD from ROM ? Something > like Flash ROM card installed into a box through some adapter ? Last time someone brought it up (PicoBSD ppl ?), it was suggested that one use: - a PCCARD/PCMCIA adapter (for PC103/embedded or PCI slot), - use a flash RAM - have a BIOS that recognizes PC-CARDS and can map a drive + boot on the flashcard. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 06:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27642 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:50:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27411 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA11825; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:49:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA21802; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:49:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:49:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Janowski To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com cc: jjw@us.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Dan Janowski[SMTP:danj@3skel.com] > > > > Cisco has it easy, the PROM is exact for the box it's in, vastly > > minimizing the array 'kernel' services. BTW, doesn't the Cisco come > > with a pre-burned PC-Card memory mard that has all the IOS stuff > > on it? We are not talking about loading system software, with > > Cisco we are merely talking about configuring it, aren't we? > > > By the way, did someone tried to load FreeBSD from ROM ? Something > like Flash ROM card installed into a box through some adapter ? > This is possible, and it would be great to have a REAL PROM for booting, software installation, and the like. Flash chips on an ISA card, somehow programmable, PC-Card... It seems that some kind of merge of biosboot and netboot (is netboot current?) with some expansion, is the basis for a PROM. > -SB > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 07:08:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00753 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:08:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00672 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA02980; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:10:11 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:10:10 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Philippe Regnauld cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <19980225154338.34463@deepo.prosa.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > sbabkin@dcn.att.com writes: > > > By the way, did someone tried to load FreeBSD from ROM ? Something > > like Flash ROM card installed into a box through some adapter ? > > Last time someone brought it up (PicoBSD ppl ?), it was suggested > that one use: "PicoBSD ppl" is just me (for now) :-), and yes, I asked about it. I hope I'll be doing some testing in the nearest future (say, 2-3weeks) with ISA SSD. But, this would be cool if we had more generic support for different flash-cards (excuse me that I mention here something called ROM-fs conceived by Linux people...) Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 07:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07119 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26643; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:36:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:36:49 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199802251536.JAA26643@plains.NoDak.edu> To: AdamT@smginc.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard says about token ring: > None of which refutes my original point, of course, which is that it's > still dead dead dead dead dead. It's dead, Jim, and it's not coming > back for the sequel. Time to move on. I think the network battle has been fought and won by IP, but IBM does not believe that nor have they given up. They want to move TR to 100Mb and 1Gb speeds. It does not matter if it is the most expensive technology in the universe, IBM shops will buy the technology (I am not being totally derogatory to those that buy anything Blue, there are cases where the cost of change is perceived to higher than the cost of the technology). I know of a couple people that would like to run BSD, but must run Linux because they are stuck on a TR segment. If IBM does raise the speeds of TR, there will be real pressure for FreeBSD TR support. --mark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 07:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:52:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA09592 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:52:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA12143 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:56:50 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01100; Wed, 25 Feb 98 10:51:31 EST Message-Id: <34F43E86.4770@njcc.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:53:42 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Ron G. Minnich" Cc: hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ron G. Minnich wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > > Ken Hansen writes: > > > Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? > > For a regular box, no. For a toaster, possibly. > > we have a 128-node cluster here at sarnoff. no keyboards, no monitors, no > display cards. Needless to say, keyboard-less admin protocols look like a > good idea from here :-) Granted, ther are special applications, but for a stand-alone, set & forget machine, I don't think my previous statement is TOO far off the mark ("Is it REALLY that hard...") - but I suspect that a 128-node cluster is (for now) a rare configuration... BTW, are you at the Sarnoff center in Princeton, NJ? What are you doing with 128-nodes? Just curious... > "toaster". Now that's a good model. > > ron Ken khansen@njcc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 07:59:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10405 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10381 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:59:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16912 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:58:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:58:51 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /dev/random isn't Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I use /dev/random for a number of things that require secure random numbers. I recently noticed though that /dev/random seemed to be missing large chunks of the region. I decided to capture the random data, and construct a histogram of it. What I found was a bell curve (?!?!?!?), with a slightly large (but acceptable) SD of 0.17; however the low and high ends were 55 and 77 SDs away from the mean! Can anyone else verify this, do I need to change my rndcontrol IRQs? (currently set to the IRQ addresses of my Ethernet cards per the rndcontrol man page) Thank you -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:15:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12537 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA17104; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:14:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199802251614.LAA17104@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Token Ring To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:14:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: kpneal@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <199802250251.SAA10719@hub.freebsd.org> from "freebsd-hackers-digest" at Feb 24, 98 06:51:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:46 -0500 "Kevin P. Neal" > wrote : > > At 07:49 PM 2/24/98 -0600, Dave Marquardt wrote: > >"Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > >> > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > >> > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? > > >I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some > >others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token > >Ring. > > Not surprising, considering IBM. > > IBM (or at least IBM in RTP, NC) has a _huge_ Token Ring network. We're > talking networks of networks of Token Ring. Literally, there several > thousand people sitting on the Token Ring networks inside IBM. > > Token Ring isn't quite dead yet, not as long as IBM is still kicking. > - -- > XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing Which is why I ran Linux while inside IBM and FreeBSD elsewhere. Token Ring is needed for many environments. Johnson & Johnson's running Token Ring, most mainframe shops with IBM are Token Ring, just as most DEC and other mini shops went ethernet. I think FreeBSD should consider expanding its support in this area. FreeBSD should look at itself as a great legacy gateway. Unfortunately, Caldera's now successfully selling Linux to this market (it was their main pitch at Unix Expo this year) and IBM's done ok with OS/2 and AIX in it as well. I know Token Ring's not as sexy as gigabit ethernet -- but there's a ton out there. I can see not supporting Microchannel -- it's dead now. Hoever, 16Mb Token Ring and Switched Token Ring are out there kicking. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14603 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16456; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Shigio Yamaguchi cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. In-Reply-To: <199802251032.CAA20355@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also in -stable; they are synced up now! -Chris On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > Hi, > > Now, global(1) in -current can understand 'obj' directory of BSD build system, > you can put tag files in 'obj' directory. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15410 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15371 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA10915; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:55:37 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802251455.PAA10915@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Token Ring To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:55:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kpneal@pobox.com In-Reply-To: <199802251614.LAA17104@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Feb 25, 98 11:14:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Which is why I ran Linux while inside IBM and FreeBSD elsewhere. > Token Ring is needed for many environments. Johnson & Johnson's running ... > I think FreeBSD should consider expanding its support in this area. the point is, there is no "FreeBSD" company or individual, and most -hackers or core team happen to live in a better world and not have interest (or perhaps) time to invest in developing token ring drivers (whic means also hunting documentation etc. etc.) i don't think there is much need for arguments why supporting XYZ would be great. reminds me of the many people were telling me that midi/wavetable support was really necessary to them etc etc but none has the time to help developing the code. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15511 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15402 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03837 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:29:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:29:30 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring In-Reply-To: <199802251614.LAA17104@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > At Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:50:46 -0500 "Kevin P. Neal" > > wrote : > > > > At 07:49 PM 2/24/98 -0600, Dave Marquardt wrote: > > >"Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > >> > Token Ring is the most expensive, slowest networking protocol on the > > >> > planet(*). Why wouldn't a slick, fast OS like FreeBSD support it? FDDI/CDDI is token ring too. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:47:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19345 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:47:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-x2-0141.jumpnet.com [207.8.61.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19270 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:47:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id KAA00775; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:46:46 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <199802250219.VAA23312@spooky.rwwa.com> From: Dave Marquardt Date: 25 Feb 1998 10:46:14 -0600 In-Reply-To: Robert Withrow's message of "Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:19:40 -0500" Message-ID: <854t1n3a5l.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.22/XEmacs 19.16 - "Lille" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Withrow writes: > marquard@zilker.net said: > :- I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some > :- others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token > :- Ring. > > While everyone else is *making* Gigabit Ethernets. Including IBM. I work for IBM, so I can speak to this a little. IBM has all of these large corporate customers (including IBM itself) that have a big investment in Token Ring. If they can keep these people happy by creating 100 Mb/sec. token ring on the same wiring, they'll make some money. That's what's driving IBM. Anyway, if you don't like Token Ring, don't buy it. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 08:55:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21094 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-x2-0118.jumpnet.com [207.8.61.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20999 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id KAA00862; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:53:06 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring References: <199802251614.LAA17104@shell.monmouth.com> From: Dave Marquardt Date: 25 Feb 1998 10:52:34 -0600 In-Reply-To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter's message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:14:27 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <851zwr39v1.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.22/XEmacs 19.16 - "Lille" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill/Carolyn Pechter writes: > Which is why I ran Linux while inside IBM and FreeBSD elsewhere. > Token Ring is needed for many environments. Johnson & Johnson's running > Token Ring, most mainframe shops with IBM are Token Ring, just as most > DEC and other mini shops went ethernet. I run FreeBSD inside IBM and at home, and use RS/6000s to gateway to token ring. > I think FreeBSD should consider expanding its support in this area. > FreeBSD should look at itself as a great legacy gateway. Well, "FreeBSD" isn't any sort of organization that hires people to do things like this. If the FreeBSD community wants token ring, someone will stop forward and write the appropriate drivers. It hasn't happened yet, so the FreeBSD community isn't very interested or there isn't anyone in the FreeBSD community interested enough in writing the code who feels they have the right skills to do the job. If you feel FreeBSD should expand into Token Ring, go for it. I would do it if I felt I had the time, but working on TCP/IP code all day at work, I don't really feel like writing Token Ring drivers in my spare time. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:05:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:05:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22971 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA249 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:07:29 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34F478F8@smginc.com>; Wed, 25 Feb 98 12:03:04 PST From: Adam Turoff To: hackers Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 12:05:00 PST Message-ID: <34F478F8@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dave writes: > Robert Withrow writes: > > marquard@zilker.net said: > > :- I sure wish someone would tell IBM! :-) IBM (and perhaps some > > :- others--I don't quite recall) are now talking about 100 Mb/sec Token > > :- Ring. > > > > While everyone else is *making* Gigabit Ethernets. > > Including IBM. > > I work for IBM, so I can speak to this a little. IBM has all of these > large corporate customers (including IBM itself) that have a big > investment in Token Ring. If they can keep these people happy by > creating 100 Mb/sec. token ring on the same wiring, they'll make some > money. That's what's driving IBM. IBM is of sufficient size that anything you say about it is true. I'll buy that they're selling both 100 Mbit Token Ring and Ethernet. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using 2400 Baud terminal connections, either. > Anyway, if you don't like Token Ring, don't buy it. Good point. Can we continue with our regularly scheduled programming please? :-) -- Adam. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25295 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01532 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:14:41 GMT Message-ID: <022d01bd4210$143e9e80$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: so how goes java? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:09:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm kinda stuck here, i've got the latest version of the FreeBSD JDK from http://www.freebsd.org/java but it won't let me install the BDK (java beans devel kit) i was wondering if anyone has had success? right now i'm running a 3.0-current just recompiled as of last night. bascally the VM crashes right after the splashscreen comes up for the installer program, if anyone is interested i have a dump of what goes wrong, it is always the same and always happens at the same point. also, if someone could please point me towards where i need to sign up to be able to look at the JDK's source so i might be able to help if possible. i really want this to work, and since i consider my win32 system totally useless and the enviorment detrimental to my productivity helping out with the JDK port seem high on my list. oh, and last thing, are the threads implemented by our JDK pre-emptive or co-operative? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:15:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25755 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25743 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00947; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000882; Wed Feb 25 10:14:48 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08580; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:14:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802251714.KAA08580@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? To: danj@3skel.com (Dan Janowski) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:14:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, jak@cetlink.net, grog@lemis.com, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org In-Reply-To: from "Dan Janowski" at Feb 25, 98 07:03:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It also allows for bidirectional, if you do it right (like FDDI does). > > Someone said, before, the kernel would need stuff in it to merely > deal with the token-passing architecture. After that, network drivers > could be written. Don't we already have FDDI? Does it provide a similar > token-passing substructure? Yes. The FDDI and X.25 code (which you can maybe find in the attic portion of the CVS tree) both implement most of the necessary pieces of 802.5 LLC (which is probably the name of the sbustructure you were looking for here). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:27:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29075 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28948 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:26:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28561; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:26:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd028524; Wed Feb 25 10:26:20 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09141; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:26:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802251726.KAA09141@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: errormessages To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:26:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Robert Watson" at Feb 25, 98 09:42:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The big win here is internationalization of manuals instead of error > > messages. > > > > This actually makes a lot of sense for encapsulated messages (like > > sendmail). > > > > I've actually been thinking that it's about time someone built an RFC > > for message formats for log messages. I was thinking "STARTED", "READY", > > "SHUTDOWN", "STOPPED" would be a good start. > > > > Consider the case where you are trying to track a sendmail problem, and > > you don't have notification of "stop", only of "start" and "event". > > There was a universal logging BOF at December IETF -- I'm not sure what > conclusions were reached as I was at the security area session. :) I am > sure that internationalization was a big issue, was was security, etc. > There's probably a web page somewhere with the minutes, I would guess. Thanks; I'm going looking now. The main thing I was concerned with was that there is only implicit startup or shutdown or availability information. I wanted keywords (probably encoded as an 8 bit manifest constant, actually) so that I could have agent-based log monitoring. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29304 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24956; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:27:32 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA21181; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:27:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980225182731.46513@follo.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:27:31 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Leif Neland , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Leif Neland on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:46:31PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:46:31PM +0100, Leif Neland wrote: > At 25 Feb 98 13:50:33 Eivind Eklund (2:234/49.99) wrote to All regarding Re: > modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. in area "freebsd-hacker" > > EE> On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:31:49PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > EE>> So, if you want to keep 'src' directory read-only, following > EE> modification > EE>> would be useful I think. > EE> > EE> _Please_ submit changes as diffs. If you do, I'll run them > EE> through a buildworld and commit them (provided they don't break > EE> the build). > > Do I have a reasonable chance for getting changes in the makefile in > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac commited too? :-) I'll do it, as long as the changes (a) is available to me in the form of a diff, (b) don't break the world, and (c) look reasonable. Preferably, the build-phase for those objects should be moved as part of the initial build phase; this can be done by adding the targets to OBJs and writing rules for them. > I have submitted this as a bug to the gnats as gnu/5841 I see no diffs? ;-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:46:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04166 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:45:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01920 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:14 GMT Message-ID: <025301bd4214$a0b5f3a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: a bit more on java Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:41:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well i just rebuilt my 3.0 machine and now java seems totally broken, it dies right away it seems, however on a 2.2-stable machine as of Jan-11th the application gets a lot farther. if anyone is interested please download the BDK from java.sun.com to see what i'm talking about. is anyone capable of building the JDK on a 3.0 system? can anyone point me to where i sign up to be able to look at the code? thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 09:59:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06963 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06876 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01384; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:58:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802251758.JAA01384@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a bit more on java In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:41:38 EST." <025301bd4214$a0b5f3a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:58:29 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can you poke around http://www.javasoft.com for information on how to sign up to be able to get java sources? Haven't had a chance to try out the latest BDK however I will later on tonite when I get home. I am running 3.0-current. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10187 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23881; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd023878; Wed Feb 25 10:06:30 1998 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:02:27 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav cc: ABAMFICI@aol.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: single key shutdown | pulling the plug ideas... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG with soft-updates on -current it should be safe to do nothing for 30 seconds and then just pull the plug. On 25 Feb 1998, Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav wrote: > ABAMFICI@aol.com writes: > > source if you will, i.e. the plug coming out of the wall. The idea of taking > > out each individual plug (printer, monitor, comptuer, etc.) from the > > powerstrip is well, stupid. :) A small batter pack in the strip wouldn't > > necessarly be noticed, but I'm sure a large backup power box would which > > defeats the purpose of your demonstration if I recall correctly. > > I think you misunderstood. What he wanted was a simple way to shut > down FreeBSD gracefully (without suing to root and typing fasthalt) > because the personnel in charge of the machine at the trade show is > not competent enough to do so. > > In an ATX/APM system, it should be possible to keep the motherboard > from shutting off power when the on/off switch is pressed. You would > catch the event and wire it to fasthalt the way CTRL-ALT-DEL is wired > to fastboot. > > -- > "I have a closed mind. It helps keeping the rain out." (Michael Press on a.s.r) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:13:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA10673 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA12406 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:12:12 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA05012; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:22:47 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802242222.XAA05012@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: <007c01bd416e$8099c110$a7141aac@snarfblat.memberworks.com> from Robert Glover at "Feb 24, 98 03:51:48 pm" To: rob@f-body.org (Robert Glover) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:22:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Robert Glover wrote... > Hi folks... > > Has there been any progress on supporting Token Ring in FreeBSD yet? I'm > rapidly tiring of Windows NT's instability as a workstation OS, and want to > switch, but our corporate network is still Token Ring, and we're at least a > year away from switching over to Fast Ethernet. Nobody seems to want to waste time on TR development these days. So if you want any development done, either do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11169 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA10892 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 6261 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Feb 1998 18:19:41 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802251354.FAA18637@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:19:41 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, tom@sdf.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Feb-98 Satoshi Asami wrote: ... > * Someone the freebsd-scsi list is working on this. Rather than a > simple > * backup design, he is working on simultanous use of both host adapters > at > * the same time, by two separate computers. The two systems communicate > to > * make sure they don't step on each others toes when accessing the > disks. > * The idea is to make a fully fault-tolerant cluster. Yup. There is more to it too. Automatic hot standby, true, functional hot pluggable everything, full redundancy, IP switchover, self monitoring and error recovery, etc. We support RAID-0, RAID-1, RAID 5. Currently only up to 45 drives per array, but that will change too. While the system is NOT a classic Fault Tolerant, it allows you to build various servers theat will provide uninterrupted service with single component failure ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13672 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13652 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA09954; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:20:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA18026; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:20:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:20:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199802251820.LAA18026@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Alfred Perlstein" Cc: Subject: Re: so how goes java? In-Reply-To: <022d01bd4210$143e9e80$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> References: <022d01bd4210$143e9e80$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm kinda stuck here, i've got the latest version of the FreeBSD JDK from > http://www.freebsd.org/java but it won't let me install the BDK (java beans > devel kit) i was wondering if anyone has had success? You'd be alot better off sending this to freebsd-java. In any case, I'm looking at this right now. The BDK that I have requires you to unpack it under Solaris (it has Solaris binaries in it), so one of the problems is due to that. > bascally the VM crashes right after the splashscreen comes up for the > installer program, if anyone is interested i have a dump of what goes wrong, > it is always the same and always happens at the same point. How did you get it to use the FreeBSD jre? > oh, and last thing, are the threads implemented by our JDK pre-emptive or > co-operative? They are not pre-emptive. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:45:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16364 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16299 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:44:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02970; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:45:44 GMT Message-ID: <029201bd421c$cd2ae5a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Nate Williams" Cc: Subject: Re: so how goes java? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:40:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I'm kinda stuck here, i've got the latest version of the FreeBSD JDK from >> http://www.freebsd.org/java but it won't let me install the BDK (java beans >> devel kit) i was wondering if anyone has had success? > >You'd be alot better off sending this to freebsd-java. In any case, I'm >looking at this right now. The BDK that I have requires you to unpack >it under Solaris (it has Solaris binaries in it), so one of the problems >is due to that. > >> bascally the VM crashes right after the splashscreen comes up for the >> installer program, if anyone is interested i have a dump of what goes wrong, >> it is always the same and always happens at the same point. > >How did you get it to use the FreeBSD jre? > i guess it was wrong, but i sent mail to java-port yesterday and mail to -hackers just today, still no reponse from java-ports :) anyhow basically to execute the BDK install you just need to: setenv CLASSPATH / then type: java install interestingly the .zip file seems to be some sort of class archive. on a recent 3.0 system (make world as of last night) it just plains dies right away, but on a 2.2-stable of about Jan. 11th it gets farther but then also dies (makes it to somewhere in the splash screen) both crashes are always the same and easily reproducable on my 2 systems. anyhow i just called javasoft and they had no clue as to what i was talking about so i spent another long while getting irritated by thier site, but i think i found it! w00 h00! so if none of these links peter out i should wind up with the JDK NDA in front of me in a few more clicks... and now i'm expecting a bulk package of java "stuff" in my mailbox as a result of my telephone call (whoops) :) >> oh, and last thing, are the threads implemented by our JDK pre-emptive or >> co-operative? > >They are not pre-emptive. (figures since until recently the SUN version was also co-operative) one of my first things (besides fixing this problem) is to look into native threads, co-operative multitasking is an oxymoron. i also plan on having several snapshots of 3.0 compiled versions of the port. i'll inform the porting team when my NDA is all set and good. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17631 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17604 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA18270 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:51:26 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id MAA11678; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:51:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:51:26 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I needed to choose a fast ethernet card for -Current, and wanted to get the one with the lowest system overhead and best performance, which one would it be? Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some of our fileservers. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 10:52:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA17782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17703 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03093; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:52:59 GMT Message-ID: <02b001bd421d$d03a2c00$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Alfred Perlstein" , "Nate Williams" Cc: Subject: Re: so how goes java? (barf!!!!) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG looking at how MS-outlook express posted this message..... well it made me seriously ill, hmmm i wonder if pine still has that wonderful functionallity... (sorry) -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:50 AM Subject: Re: so how goes java? >>> I'm kinda stuck here, i've got the latest version of the FreeBSD JDK from >>> http://www.freebsd.org/java but it won't let me install the BDK (java >beans >>> devel kit) i was wondering if anyone has had success? >> >>You'd be alot better off sending this to freebsd-java. In any case, I'm >>looking at this right now. The BDK that I have requires you to unpack >>it under Solaris (it has Solaris binaries in it), so one of the problems >>is due to that. >> >>> bascally the VM crashes right after the splashscreen comes up for the >>> installer program, if anyone is interested i have a dump of what goes >wrong, >>> it is always the same and always happens at the same point. >> >>How did you get it to use the FreeBSD jre? >> >i guess it was wrong, but i sent mail to java-port yesterday and mail >to -hackers just today, still no reponse from java-ports :) > >anyhow basically to execute the BDK install you just need to: > >setenv CLASSPATH / > >then type: >java install > >interestingly the .zip file seems to be some sort of class archive. > >on a recent 3.0 system (make world as of last night) it just plains dies >right away, but on a 2.2-stable of about Jan. 11th it gets farther but then >also dies (makes it to somewhere in the splash screen) both crashes are >always the same and easily reproducable on my 2 systems. > >anyhow i just called javasoft and they had no clue as to what i was talking >about so i spent another long while getting irritated by thier site, but i >think i found it! w00 h00! so if none of these links peter out i should wind >up with the JDK NDA in front of me in a few more clicks... > >and now i'm expecting a bulk package of java "stuff" in my mailbox as a >result of my telephone call (whoops) :) > >>> oh, and last thing, are the threads implemented by our JDK pre-emptive or >>> co-operative? >> >>They are not pre-emptive. > > >(figures since until recently the SUN version was also co-operative) >one of my first things (besides fixing this problem) is to look into native >threads, co-operative multitasking is an oxymoron. >i also plan on having several snapshots of 3.0 compiled versions of the >port. i'll inform the porting team when my NDA is all set and good. > >-Alfred > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:03:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20046 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:03:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20032; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:03:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14666 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:03:24 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01401; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:35:56 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802251835.TAA01401@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: <199802251354.FAA18637@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Feb 25, 98 05:54:20 am" To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:35:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: tom@sdf.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Satoshi Asami wrote... > (Redirected to -scsi) > > * SCSI adapter rarely fail. > > I've seen one that fried itself. Adaptec 3940UW (the fried chip was > actually the PCI-PCI bridge). > > * It is possible to have up to two host adapters per channel. > > Yes. We've tried it before, with a couple of patches from Justin > (since merged to the main source), we could get it to work. (The same > single-ended controllers as above.) And cross your fingers that the device vendor has correctly implemented multiple initiator support. Although the SCSI standard says they should this is in no way guaranteed to work. Crappy firmware is plentiful. > * Someone the freebsd-scsi list is working on this. Rather than a simple > * backup design, he is working on simultanous use of both host adapters at > * the same time, by two separate computers. The two systems communicate to > * make sure they don't step on each others toes when accessing the disks. > * The idea is to make a fully fault-tolerant cluster. > > We're working on something similar, although not as extensible as what > you described. The plan is to have all disks mounted read-only from > both systems during normal operation. When there is a write, it first > gets unmounted from one machine before it gets written on the other. Who will write the CFS ? ;-) (cluster file system) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:03:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20028; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:03:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14658 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:03:22 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01362; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:33:12 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802251833.TAA01362@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: <199802251356.FAA18645@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Feb 25, 98 05:56:01 am" To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:33:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: tom@sdf.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Satoshi Asami wrote... > (Redirected to -scsi) > > * SCSI adapter rarely fail. > > By the way, we're more concerned about network switch/cable/PC/power > supply failures, rather than adapters. There are so many things that Use a hot-swap disk chassis with redundant power supplies. Hook those up to a *good* UPS. Regularly check you lead-acid creeps (the UPS batteries). > can take down a machine, and if it's the single connection from the > disk to the network, it's not good. Multiple adapters on a single disk do not buy you much either. If adapter A decides to commit suicide and locks up the bus real good adapter B is still stuck. You want some kind of a bus isolator thingy. The company I work for (DEC) is releasing what is called SCSI hubs. These are multiport devices that can 'star couple' (for lack of a better terminology) multiple scsi buses, with each bus being electrically seperated. The larger hubs have a round robin arbitration builtin that makes sure that the host with ID 7 will not monopolise the bus to the device. All of this is based on a chip jointly developed by Digital and Symbios See www.symbios.com for more info. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:04:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA20036 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:03:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14682 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:03:26 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01481; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:48:32 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802251848.TAA01481@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Jay Nelson at "Feb 24, 98 07:49:42 pm" To: jdn@acp.qiv.com (Jay Nelson) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:48:31 +0100 (MET) Cc: blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Jay Nelson wrote... > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote: > > > I've been wondering about the scsi redundancy problems that come up now > >and then (read: I've been chewing on paint chips again). What parts are > >failing? In my experience, only disks have failed once installed; > >controllers have only failed during poor installations and very rare at > >that. > > But what I was really wondering, is this about have two SCSI cards on > >one scsi bus. On one of my old adaptec's it _looks_ like I can change the > >controller from ID7 to anything else. With a controller at say 6 and 7, > >would there be a way in software for both controllers to access the disks? > >Or even for the standby controller to just scan the bus now and then? > > Okey, I'm going off the deep-end, back to my white-out (old-formula). > > > >--Ben Kirkpatrick > This is normally done with differential controllers between two > different machines -- and, yes, it works. I don't think it's possible See Digital Unix TruClusters, they indeed only want differential for the shared SCSI buses. > with single ended controllers. Concurrent file access from two > different machines is a _lot_ more troublesome because of the locking > problems. I don't know of any standard Unices that support this out of > the box. It usually takes two special daemons that run on both > machines willing to communicate with each other. Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > If you want both controllers on the same machine for high > availability, you'll need to write some software to monitor status and > take the appropriate actions if there is a failure. Otherwise, I don't See www.veritas.com for a number of whitepapers on High Availabilty. Veritas calls their product FirstWatch. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:22:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23674 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA21026; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:21:46 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id NAA13910; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:21:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225132146.02016@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:21:46 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Wilko Bulte Cc: Jay Nelson , blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <199802251848.TAA01481@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802251848.TAA01481@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:48:31PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a tricky problem to solve "correctly". I have seen several potential solutions, and all have problems. I've actually INSTALLED AND USED a couple of them; they cover what they are designed to cover quite well, but aren't perfect. Let's say you have two machines, one in "hot standby" mode, the other active. They monitor each other over a private interconnect. Both are "on" the disk bus (perhaps through an active/active RAID controller), but only one is using it. If the first fails, the second activates itself, fsck's the disks, mounts them, changes its Ethernet MAC address to that of the failed machine and comes online. If the first failed due to a software problem and went down "gracefully", unmounting the disks, the restart time is measured in seconds. If it blew chunks then FSCK has to run - and you damn well better be using a journaled filesystem or this is going to take a LONG time (ie: 20 minutes to an hour if you have some large disk storage involved here). This is one reason, by the way, that LFS being in a "working" state is important to these kinds of efforts. IBM has a solution that they've sold for quite some time based on AIX (which inherently uses jfs, a journalled filesystem) which does exactly this. So far, so good. Now, where are the problems: 1) What if the second machine THINKS the first is dead, but its wrong! This could be extremely bad. Its one of the failure scenarios that the cluster people don't like to talk about, because the consequence of being "wrong" about this could be the destruction of the disk packs involved. There ARE some solutions to this if you use a raw interface to the disks and each "checkpoints" to a specific sector on a regular basis. You SHOULD be able to detect, reliably, whether the other machine is working this way. But its a non-trivial problem to solve, and the risk of being wrong is that you trash the entire working storage set on the disk subsystem. 2) Concurrent *filesystem* access under Unix is a real bitch. I've yet to see a *good* solution to this problem. I've seen lots of hacks, but no real solutions. I consider concurrent RAW disk slice access to be next to worthless, but I understand that some DBMS companies find that "solution" ideal for their particular application. What I've thought about for a long time is architecting an active/active solution to this problem. Its tricky as hell to do right, but you'd basically have a bulletproof final installation in which you could take a hammer to any *ONE* device of a redundant set in the final configuration and the noticable impact from the outside would be *zero*. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:48:31PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Jay Nelson wrote... > > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote: > > > > > I've been wondering about the scsi redundancy problems that come up now > > >and then (read: I've been chewing on paint chips again). What parts are > > >failing? In my experience, only disks have failed once installed; > > >controllers have only failed during poor installations and very rare at > > >that. > > > But what I was really wondering, is this about have two SCSI cards on > > >one scsi bus. On one of my old adaptec's it _looks_ like I can change the > > >controller from ID7 to anything else. With a controller at say 6 and 7, > > >would there be a way in software for both controllers to access the disks? > > >Or even for the standby controller to just scan the bus now and then? > > > Okey, I'm going off the deep-end, back to my white-out (old-formula). > > > > > >--Ben Kirkpatrick > > > This is normally done with differential controllers between two > > different machines -- and, yes, it works. I don't think it's possible > > See Digital Unix TruClusters, they indeed only want differential for > the shared SCSI buses. > > > with single ended controllers. Concurrent file access from two > > different machines is a _lot_ more troublesome because of the locking > > problems. I don't know of any standard Unices that support this out of > > the box. It usually takes two special daemons that run on both > > machines willing to communicate with each other. > > Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things > like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another > kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > > > If you want both controllers on the same machine for high > > availability, you'll need to write some software to monitor status and > > take the appropriate actions if there is a failure. Otherwise, I don't > > See www.veritas.com for a number of whitepapers on High Availabilty. > Veritas calls their product FirstWatch. > > Wilko > _ ______________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko > |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' > --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:23:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23675 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:22:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node71.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.71]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA00703 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:20:49 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980225171800.0098d100@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:19:13 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: telnet root login Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry to boder you guys again, but I am in trouble here. The Brazilian FBSD list is not working, so, I have no other source of info I can count with. My question is very basic and shouldn't be addressed to hacker in normal conditions, but... here it goes: I'm trying to log to the FBSD machine using NT 4 workstation's telnet. Any root-level user can't login; The login attempt returns: Login incorrect Other non-root users login ok. Is this a security - FBSD - issue or an NT issue, and how to get it solved ? Thank you again (ahmmmm... is there a FreeBSD-basic questions list ??? :) ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:36:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26471 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26443 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:36:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25133; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:35:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet root login In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980225171800.0098d100@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Capriotti wrote: This question should have been directed to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. The answer is that in /etc/ttys, you need to mark each of the netowork connections as 'secure'. Please see 'man 5 tty' for more information. > Sorry to boder you guys again, but I am in trouble here. > > The Brazilian FBSD list is not working, so, I have no other source of info > I can count with. My question is very basic and shouldn't be addressed to > hacker in normal conditions, but... here it goes: > > I'm trying to log to the FBSD machine using NT 4 workstation's telnet. > > Any root-level user can't login; The login attempt returns: > > Login incorrect > > Other non-root users login ok. > > Is this a security - FBSD - issue or an NT issue, and how to get it solved ? > > Thank you again (ahmmmm... is there a FreeBSD-basic questions list ??? :) ) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:36:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user17114@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26463 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:36:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 25 Feb 1998 19:44:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:44:42 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet root login In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980225171800.0098d100@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You could change your /etc/ttys file to allow "secure" logins on pty's, but that is not generally accepted. You need to login as a non-root user who is a member of the group "wheel" and use the su command to become root. Telnet packets can be snooped and reconstructed, allowing others to know your root password. You should look insto installing "stel" or "ssh" and using these instead of telnet. Disable telnet completely if possible. This should have been sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Kevin On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Sorry to boder you guys again, but I am in trouble here. > > The Brazilian FBSD list is not working, so, I have no other source of info > I can count with. My question is very basic and shouldn't be addressed to > hacker in normal conditions, but... here it goes: > > I'm trying to log to the FBSD machine using NT 4 workstation's telnet. > > Any root-level user can't login; The login attempt returns: > > Login incorrect > > Other non-root users login ok. > > Is this a security - FBSD - issue or an NT issue, and how to get it solved ? > > Thank you again (ahmmmm... is there a FreeBSD-basic questions list ??? :) ) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 11:59:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:59:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00594 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:58:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27653; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:59:04 GMT Message-ID: <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:58:20 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger CC: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Karl, Karl Denninger wrote: > If I needed to choose a fast ethernet card for -Current, and wanted to get > the one with the lowest system overhead and best performance, which one > would it be? > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > of our fileservers. The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest performance. Check it out on: http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400250a.html#Parallel and http://www.3com.com/solutions/200399.html Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02751 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:08:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02733 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA12787; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA25087; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F47A40.CE76ADE7@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:33 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd@isvara.net CC: Karl Denninger , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > performance. How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:09:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:09:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02953 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:09:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20744; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:05:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252005.MAA20744@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd@isvara.net cc: Karl Denninger , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:58:20 GMT." <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:05:40 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > > of our fileservers. > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > performance. Uh, FTL has one of these. It seems to work just fine, but I would say that at least for FreeBSD the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B still gives you the best throughput:overhead ratio. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:17:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04886 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04857 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:17:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20782; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:14:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252014.MAA20782@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd@isvara.net, Karl Denninger , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:33 EST." <34F47A40.CE76ADE7@3skel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:14:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > performance. > > How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? I should have mentioned in my previous message; we have one of each available for testing here, and two effectively identical systems that we can put them in. If someone cares to nominate a benchmark procedure for this sort of thing, I can schedule some time to run it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:22:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06484 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:22:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06124 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:21:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA21863; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd021859; Wed Feb 25 12:21:30 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id MAA28463; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:21:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199802252021.MAA28463@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802252005.MAA20744@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 25, 98 12:05:40 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:21:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd@isvara.net, karl@mcs.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > > > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > > > of our fileservers. > > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > performance. > > Uh, FTL has one of these. It seems to work just fine, but I would say > that at least for FreeBSD the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B still gives > you the best throughput:overhead ratio. > Intel EtherExpress Pro/100+ cost $59 OEM at a shop in S.F. I get > 8MB/sec through a Cisco Cat 5000 switch to/from a SGI O2. Can't see any issue with CPU load. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10808 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:38:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA25593; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:06 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id OAA18172; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225143805.18181@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:05 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: freebsd@isvara.net Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net>; from freebsd@isvara.net on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:58:20PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:58:20PM +0000, freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > Hi Karl, > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > If I needed to choose a fast ethernet card for -Current, and wanted to get > > the one with the lowest system overhead and best performance, which one > > would it be? > > > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > > of our fileservers. > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > performance. > > Check it out on: > http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400250a.html#Parallel > and > http://www.3com.com/solutions/200399.html > > Cheers, > Dan > > _____________________________________ > Daniel J Blueman > BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester > Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net > Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:49:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13314 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:48:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA12867; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA25465; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:48:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F483AB.85A6D713@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:48:43 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802252014.MAA20782@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > > > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > > performance. > > > > How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? > > I should have mentioned in my previous message; we have one of each > available for testing here, and two effectively identical > systems that we can put them in. > > If someone cares to nominate a benchmark procedure for this sort of > thing, I can schedule some time to run it. Yikes. UDP Transmit to nowhere? Will that work for transmit speed? I guess the question is how to test receive? -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:57:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15120 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15075 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:57:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24440; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:57:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802252057.NAA24440@pluto.plutotech.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:54:08 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> you wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a question... > > Right now, as the driver stands, if you get a sense return on a disk of > 0x11,0x0c ("Unrecovered read error - recommend rewrite the block"), the > driver does not attempt to do anything about it. > > Why? > > You're screwed in this case - the data is gone. But, some RAID controllers > (notably the CMD adapters) will *FIX* such an error if you write back to the > block. Is the data really gone? Isn't that for the user to decide? I've known disks to report temporary media errors that "dissapear" after they are moved, the temperature changes, or the moon goes full. > Here's the scenario: > > 1) You have a failure on a data drive. It gets reported back with > sense ASC 0x11, 0x0c. > > 2) The driver does not attempt to do anything other than report the > error. I don't believe that it is the driver's responsibility to take action in this case. > This sounds like bogus behavior to me. Here's why: > > You've ALREADY lost the data. This is arguable. > There is no harm in trying to > "fix it". Thus, why not do the following: How does the driver know what it means to fix it? If the bad block is in the MBR, the system may well have this information somewhere in core to restore the data. If the data is in the filesystem, writing one pattern might cause the FS to crash the kernel or confuse fsck, while another may minimize damage. If the "client" of the driver is not going to get the data it expects, an error should be returned, period. > a) Attempt a forced reassign of the block. > b) If that FAILS, write zeros into the block. > > Why do these things you ask? Simple: > > 1) The error, if repeated (or even singly) may cause a panic. If its > in a swap area, for example, you're screwed - you're probably > reading back a page of an executable from the paging space, and if > its corrupted you're going down. The swap pager should terminate the program(s) needing that block if it receives an I/O error. This should not panic the system. If, on the other hand, you remap the block, and silently return garbage data, you may well cause behavior that is recoverable. > 2) If its a data file you MIGHT die. There's no way to know. And the FS may be able to clean up it's data structures to minimize the effect of a missing/corrupted block of data if you tell it that the read operation failed. If you remap it and return garbage, who knows what will happen. > 3) IF YOU DON'T "FIX" IT, YOU WILL GET KILLED EVENTUALLY. This need not be the case. > With a regular disk, (a) above will succeed. You may still crash, but at > least you should come back up. If the data was a file, its gone anyway - > likewise for a directory. There is no harm in trying to prevent FUTURE > errors at that point. I have no problem with the client of the data taking some action to clear an I/O error. There may even need to be an additional API to do this, but the disk driver does not have sufficient information to make the decision on how to perform that recovery. The only safe thing is to report the error until some external action is taken. If the system is not properly dealing with EIO conditions, that is certainly a bug, but your suggested fix is not a correct solution. > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 12:59:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15419 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:59:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20915; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:56:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252056.MAA20915@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Karl Denninger cc: Mike Smith , freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:51 CST." <19980225143851.34237@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:56:50 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 12:05:40PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > > > > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > > > > of our fileservers. > > > > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > > performance. > > > > Uh, FTL has one of these. It seems to work just fine, but I would say > > that at least for FreeBSD the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B still gives > > you the best throughput:overhead ratio. > > Hmmm... two opinions eh? :-) More than. 8) > Is the SMC worse than either? By how much? Which SMC? David G. has compared the 'de' driver against the 'fxp' (Old SMC vs. EtherExpress Pro 100B) and concluded that the latter is slightly more efficient. I don't know about the new SMC; until someone gives me a benchmark that I can apply all I can say is "it works". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:01:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16113 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:01:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15993 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20930; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:58:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252058.MAA20930@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Janowski cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:48:43 EST." <34F483AB.85A6D713@3skel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:58:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > If someone cares to nominate a benchmark procedure for this sort of > > thing, I can schedule some time to run it. > > Yikes. UDP Transmit to nowhere? Will that work for > transmit speed? The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at hand. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17180 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17080 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA12911; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:04:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA25700; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:04:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F48770.D5A3571B@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:04:49 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802252058.MAA20930@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > If someone cares to nominate a benchmark procedure for this sort of > > > thing, I can schedule some time to run it. > > > > Yikes. UDP Transmit to nowhere? Will that work for > > transmit speed? > > The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at > hand. X number of bytes, seconds of system/user process time for the program? Or is the stuff we are looking for happening in the kernel in a way that these stats don't report? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18848 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20989; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:08:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252108.NAA20989@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Janowski cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:04:49 EST." <34F48770.D5A3571B@3skel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:08:10 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > If someone cares to nominate a benchmark procedure for this sort of > > > > thing, I can schedule some time to run it. > > > > > > Yikes. UDP Transmit to nowhere? Will that work for > > > transmit speed? > > > > The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at > > hand. > > X number of bytes, seconds of system/user process time for the program? > Or is the stuff we are looking for happening in the kernel in a way that > these stats don't report? Correct. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18906 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA27295; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:10:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id PAA19930; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:10:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225151042.07314@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:10:42 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors References: <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> <199802252057.NAA24440@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802252057.NAA24440@pluto.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 01:54:08PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 01:54:08PM -0700, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > In article <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> you wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > I have a question... > > > > Right now, as the driver stands, if you get a sense return on a disk of > > 0x11,0x0c ("Unrecovered read error - recommend rewrite the block"), the > > driver does not attempt to do anything about it. > > > > Why? > > > > You're screwed in this case - the data is gone. But, some RAID controllers > > (notably the CMD adapters) will *FIX* such an error if you write back to the > > block. > > Is the data really gone? Isn't that for the user to decide? I've known > disks to report temporary media errors that "dissapear" after they are > moved, the temperature changes, or the moon goes full. > > > Here's the scenario: > > > > 1) You have a failure on a data drive. It gets reported back with > > sense ASC 0x11, 0x0c. > > > > 2) The driver does not attempt to do anything other than report the > > error. > > I don't believe that it is the driver's responsibility to take action > in this case. > > > This sounds like bogus behavior to me. Here's why: > > > > You've ALREADY lost the data. > > This is arguable. > > > There is no harm in trying to > > "fix it". Thus, why not do the following: > > How does the driver know what it means to fix it? If the bad block > is in the MBR, the system may well have this information somewhere > in core to restore the data. If the data is in the filesystem, > writing one pattern might cause the FS to crash the kernel or > confuse fsck, while another may minimize damage. If the "client" > of the driver is not going to get the data it expects, an error > should be returned, period. > > > a) Attempt a forced reassign of the block. > > b) If that FAILS, write zeros into the block. > > > > Why do these things you ask? Simple: > > > > 1) The error, if repeated (or even singly) may cause a panic. If its > > in a swap area, for example, you're screwed - you're probably > > reading back a page of an executable from the paging space, and if > > its corrupted you're going down. > > The swap pager should terminate the program(s) needing that block > if it receives an I/O error. This should not panic the system. > > If, on the other hand, you remap the block, and silently return garbage > data, you may well cause behavior that is recoverable. > > > 2) If its a data file you MIGHT die. There's no way to know. > > And the FS may be able to clean up it's data structures to minimize > the effect of a missing/corrupted block of data if you tell it that > the read operation failed. If you remap it and return garbage, who > knows what will happen. > > > 3) IF YOU DON'T "FIX" IT, YOU WILL GET KILLED EVENTUALLY. > > This need not be the case. > > > With a regular disk, (a) above will succeed. You may still crash, but at > > least you should come back up. If the data was a file, its gone anyway - > > likewise for a directory. There is no harm in trying to prevent FUTURE > > errors at that point. > > I have no problem with the client of the data taking some action to clear > an I/O error. There may even need to be an additional API to do this, > but the disk driver does not have sufficient information to make the > decision on how to perform that recovery. The only safe thing is to > report the error until some external action is taken. > > If the system is not properly dealing with EIO conditions, that is > certainly a bug, but your suggested fix is not a correct solution. This condition, right now, causes a *HANG* if it happens on *DATA FILES*. Not a panic, not an error return, not termination of the offending process. A hard system crash which requires a RESET to recover from. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:13:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19530 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19357 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by mail.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12217 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:12:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:06:12 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:06:10 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. - The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not multiplies). - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. Any comments...? Max P.S. Both of these are from _my_ shareware package "udos" and I am willing to give the full rights to FreeBSD. P.P.S. After the "fiasco" with my changes to more(1) (finding out about 'stty rows XX cols XX'), I figure I should try some more simple things until I'm more used to FreeBSD 8-). ----- Max Euston Sysadm, Programmer, etc... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21733 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10701; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010637; Wed Feb 25 14:18:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA27558; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:18:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802252118.OAA27558@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:18:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: danj@3skel.com, tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, jak@cetlink.net, grog@lemis.com, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, AdamT@smginc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, rob@f-body.org In-Reply-To: <199802251714.KAA08580@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 25, 98 05:14:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Someone said, before, the kernel would need stuff in it to merely > > deal with the token-passing architecture. After that, network drivers > > could be written. Don't we already have FDDI? Does it provide a similar > > token-passing substructure? > > Yes. The FDDI and X.25 code (which you can maybe find in the attic > portion of the CVS tree) both implement most of the necessary pieces > of 802.5 LLC (which is probably the name of the sbustructure you > were looking for here). Actually, I was thinking back to how I know this (I had a copy of the IBM specifications for everything at a previous employer), and I realized that the reason I had been looking at the LLC for them was in support of NetBEUI. There is a NetBEUI implementation for FreeBSD by some folks at Mitre which must have implemented much of the LLC code necessary. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21360 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21029; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252116.NAA21029@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:10:42 CST." <19980225151042.07314@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:16:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If the system is not properly dealing with EIO conditions, that is > > certainly a bug, but your suggested fix is not a correct solution. > > This condition, right now, causes a *HANG* if it happens on *DATA FILES*. > > Not a panic, not an error return, not termination of the offending process. > A hard system crash which requires a RESET to recover from. Sure. We got that the first time. But you haven't proposed a useful solution. Even just something that returned a read error would be fine. But leaping up and down and screaming about it isn't going to get anything done. See the previous discussion inre: big sticks. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:22:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22831 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:22:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA12948; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:22:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA25896; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:22:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F48B83.DA7C5451@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:22:11 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802252108.NAA20989@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > X number of bytes, seconds of system/user process time for the program? > > Or is the stuff we are looking for happening in the kernel in a way that > > these stats don't report? > > Correct. I assume then that we have to put something in the device driver itself; in the txloop and rxloop? What would be the best way to get these stats out? How to establish the time spent in the loop? It is my assumption that no context switch can happen in these loops, or is that not so? I'm working up to this driver thing, in case you can't tell. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:24:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:24:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23393 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:24:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jandrese@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16849; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from doberman.cslab.vt.edu (doberman.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06885; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:23:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:23:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason R. Andresen" X-Sender: jandrese@doberman.cslab.vt.edu To: Max Euston cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? In-Reply-To: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Max Euston wrote: =)I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. =) =)- The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a =)number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. =) It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long =)long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not =)multiplies). =) I believe that factor(1) is already a part of the games distribution. (Unless someone claimed a copyright on it ;) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:24:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23381 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA02003; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:22:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:20:57 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Max Euston cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? In-Reply-To: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Max Euston wrote: > I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. > > - The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a > number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. > It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long > long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not > multiplies). > > - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest > line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can > ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. /usr/games/factor provides the factoring service. Don't know of a wid-like utility. Sounds interesting, although I'm not sure how often I'd use it. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:27:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:27:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24558 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26422; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:27:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802252127.OAA26422@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Karl Denninger cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:10:42 CST." <19980225151042.07314@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:24:28 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> If the system is not properly dealing with EIO conditions, that is >> certainly a bug, but your suggested fix is not a correct solution. > >This condition, right now, causes a *HANG* if it happens on *DATA FILES*. > >Not a panic, not an error return, not termination of the offending process. >A hard system crash which requires a RESET to recover from. Was it really necessary to quote the entire message to make this point? If the system is hanging, it is definitely a bug. I'll add it to the list of other VFS bugs Ken and I are planning to look at. We are playing around quite a bit with hot swap and error recovery and we've been finding that in many cases the SCSI code cleans up and reports errors correctly, but other kernel subsystems do not. For instance, you often cannot "umount -f" a disk with dirty buffers that had a catastrophic I/O error even though that error was properly reported all the way down to the application. >-- >Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin >http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems >Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS >Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:31:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26038 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:31:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25884 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:30:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01171; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001166; Wed Feb 25 13:25:33 1998 Message-ID: <34F48B59.64880EEB@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 05:21:29 +0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Euston CC: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Max Euston wrote: > > I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. > > - The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a > number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. > It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long > long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not > multiplies). factor is in /usr/games (though it seems limited to rather small numbers) julian > > - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest > line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can > ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. can you think of a present program into which it might fit better a an option? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:32:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26436 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA25659; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:52 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id OAA18189; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225143851.34237@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:51 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <199802252005.MAA20744@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802252005.MAA20744@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 12:05:40PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 12:05:40PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Low system overhead is the key here. I'm starting to see things that look a > > > lot like system CPU starvation with the SMC Etherpower 10/100s here on some > > > of our fileservers. > > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > performance. > > Uh, FTL has one of these. It seems to work just fine, but I would say > that at least for FreeBSD the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B still gives > you the best throughput:overhead ratio. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > Hmmm... two opinions eh? :-) Is the SMC worse than either? By how much? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:38:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28716 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:38:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28538 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21110; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:35:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252135.NAA21110@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Max Euston , "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 05:21:29 +0800." <34F48B59.64880EEB@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:35:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Max Euston wrote: > > > > I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. > > > > - The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a > > number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. > > It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long > > long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not > > multiplies). > > factor is in /usr/games > > (though it seems limited to rather small numbers) An update would be nice, then. > > - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest > > line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can > > ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > a an option? wc(1) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:47:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01357 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01311 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:46:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA13037; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:46:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA26142; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:46:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F4912F.B444C8EF@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:46:23 -0500 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> <34F48B59.64880EEB@whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > Max Euston wrote: > > > > - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest > > line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can > > ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > a an option? Would that be the right thing to do? 'wc' would seem the right place. What about compatibility? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:48:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01451 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by mail.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12491; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:47:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:41:14 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD420C.2FCDD020.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'Julian Elischer'" Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:41:11 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, February 25, 1998 4:21 PM, Julian Elischer [SMTP:julian@whistle.com] wrote: > Max Euston wrote: > > > > I have 2 utilities that are not in FreeBSD. > > > > - The first if factor(1) ala SVR4. It prints the prime factors of a > > number. I sometimes use it to find the "most efficient" geometry for a HD. > > It is written for 'long's, but I want to have it pick 'int'/'long'/'long > > long' (all unsigned) based on the input for speed (it uses adds, not > > multiplies). > > factor is in /usr/games > > (though it seems limited to rather small numbers) > Silly me... I simply tried: $ factor when I should have tried: $ man factor Didn't expect to find it in 'games' ??? - That is not in my PATH=. It uses the 'primes' utility and is doing division (on 'long's) - I will do some investigating to see if it is faster than my method and see if it will scale to 'long long's. > julian > > > > - The second (non Unix) is wid(1). It finds the "width" of a file (longest > > line). It can print longest, shortest, average (mean), totals and can > > ignore trailing spaces. Suggestions for any other features is welcomed. > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > a an option? The closest I had ever thought of was wc(1). I will look again. (As I am typing this, I just got mail from Mike Smith suggesting the same idea - I will see if I can make a logical design out of this and merge it cleanly). Since I have been bitten by the "it already does that you boob, just look in XXX" bug twice in the same number of days (remember my adding LINES= to more(1)?) :-((, I will do some more investigating before announcing my plans to "hackers" :-). (Feeling REALLY sheepish... going back to RTFM and play with FreeBSD for a few more days...). Max ----- Max Euston Sysadm, Programmer, etc... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:48:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01441 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14339; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:35:51 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA16824; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:54:41 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id WAA07704; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:46:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980225224606.07502@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:46:06 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Mike Smith Cc: Max Euston , "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <34F48B59.64880EEB@whistle.com> <199802252135.NAA21110@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199802252135.NAA21110@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 01:35:57PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Organization: PROSA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > > a an option? > > wc(1) (damn, faster than me :-) ... -L ? -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 13:57:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04792 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04699 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA25786; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:57:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225155701.49962@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:57:01 -0600 From: dannyman To: Philippe Regnauld , Mike Smith Cc: Max Euston , "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <34F48B59.64880EEB@whistle.com> <199802252135.NAA21110@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980225224606.07502@deepo.prosa.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980225224606.07502@deepo.prosa.dk>; from Philippe Regnauld on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:46:06PM +0100 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:46:06PM +0100, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > Mike Smith writes: > > > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > > > a an option? > > > > wc(1) > > (damn, faster than me :-) > > ... -L ? Or -C or -W ... I can't think of anything else ... "columns" "lines" "width" ??? Maybe we *do* need a seperate app?!? ;) -i for "w-eye-duh" -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:01:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05825 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05763 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:01:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11648; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:31:02 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA01337; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:31:01 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980226083101.52440@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:31:01 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Kelly , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <15135.888386736@time.cdrom.com> <34f8c398.9396678@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34f8c398.9396678@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:21:36AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 February 1998 at 7:21:36 +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:05:36 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" > wrote: > >>> I guess the Linux folks had a different viewpoint. >> >> More likely they were simply lucky enough to manage to find someone >> with both the equipment and the wherewithall to do the work involved. > >> I wasn't attempting to turn this into an ongoing debate. Someone also >> sent me private mail also saying "gee, thanks a lot for shooting down >> our token ring porting effort, you knob!" > >> folks who claimed to be doing the same work ... vanished into thin air. > > How hard can it be to take the work done for Linux and scrub the GPL > out and BSD-ify it? What a waste of time. > You can't copy code verbatim without plagiarism but all the ideas > and algorithms can be freely extracted and "re-written." That's > what's so great about freed software. Of course you can copy the code verbatim without plagiarism. All you have to do is abide by the GPL. There's plenty of GPL code in the source tree already. All you need to do is isolate it from other code :-) Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07054 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11655; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA01364; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:15 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Kelly Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 06:27:07AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 February 1998 at 6:27:07 +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:24:11 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On a normal network, a 10Mbit Ethernet network could outrun a 16Mbit >> Token Ring network, simply because of the token-passing scheme that >> Token Ring uses. > >> token passing isn't very efficient under any kind of load. > > Can you back this up with performance test data? No, of course not, or I wouldn't have mentioned the theoretical side. > It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years > ago in Data Communications. Did he have an axe to grind? > He said token ring would run at full 16mb wire speed while Ethernet > would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. Right, and none of us have ever seen more than 7 Mb/s out of a 10 Mb Ethernet, right? Any such statement *must* be qualified by the test conditions. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:08:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07472 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14706; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014669; Wed Feb 25 14:33:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28267; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:33:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802252133.OAA28267@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: so how goes java? To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:33:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <029201bd421c$cd2ae5a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> from "Alfred Perlstein" at Feb 25, 98 01:40:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >They are not pre-emptive. > > (figures since until recently the SUN version was also co-operative) > one of my first things (besides fixing this problem) is to look into native > threads, co-operative multitasking is an oxymoron. > i also plan on having several snapshots of 3.0 compiled versions of the > port. i'll inform the porting team when my NDA is all set and good. Do not confuse call conversion threading with Yield-based threading. Though call conversion threading is non-preemptive, one thread will not be blocked simply because another thread has made a blocking call. This is the point of call conversion. Kernel threading buys you SMP scalability (assuming there is ever code changes checked in to ensure thread-CPU affinity), and a much higher context switch overhead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:08:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07473 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:08:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by mail.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12631; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:06:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:00:33 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD420E.E25A8380.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'dannyman'" , Philippe Regnauld , Mike Smith Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:00:31 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, February 25, 1998 4:57 PM, dannyman [SMTP:dannyman@sasquatch.dannyland.org] wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:46:06PM +0100, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > > Mike Smith writes: > > > > > > can you think of a present program into which it might fit better > > > > a an option? > > > > > > wc(1) > > > > (damn, faster than me :-) > > > > ... -L ? > > Or -C or -W ... I can't think of anything else ... "columns" "lines" "width" > ??? > > Maybe we *do* need a seperate app?!? ;) > > -i for "w-eye-duh" > > -- > //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- > \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- > aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement I could use -L for width of lines and -W for width of words (-l to -L and -w to -W)? ... I still like (and use) the maximum/minimum/mean information ... Just thinking out loud. I'm going home now, I'll think about it during the drive. Max ----- Max Euston Sysadm, Programmer, etc... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:22:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10409 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10292 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:21:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA00598; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:21:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225162134.17626@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:21:34 -0600 From: dannyman To: Max Euston , Philippe Regnauld , Mike Smith Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <01BD420E.E25A8380.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <01BD420E.E25A8380.meuston@jmrodgers.com>; from Max Euston on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 05:00:31PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 05:00:31PM -0500, Max Euston wrote: > I could use -L for width of lines and -W for width of words (-l to -L and > -w to -W)? ... I still like (and use) the maximum/minimum/mean information > ... Just thinking out loud. I'm going home now, I'll think about it during > the drive. Woah, you were meta-thinking. This thread has gone silly now. My fault. -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:29:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:29:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11648 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA22029; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:28:46 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980226002846.05689@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:28:46 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <01BD420C.2FCDD020.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <01BD420C.2FCDD020.meuston@jmrodgers.com>; from Max Euston on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 04:41:11PM -0500 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, Max Euston, were spotted writing this on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 04:41:11PM -0500: > when I should have tried: > > $ man factor > > Didn't expect to find it in 'games' ??? - That is not in my PATH=. That's history for you, I guess. > It uses the 'primes' utility and is doing division (on 'long's) - I will do > some investigating to see if it is faster than my method and see if it will > scale to 'long long's. It won't, at least not easily. It keeps a fixed precomputed table of all primes up to 2^16 to do a simple sieve (in /usr/src/games/primes/pr_tbl.c, also used by primes(1)); would be, err, an interesting exercize to change that to a fixed precomputed table of all primes up to 2^32 and watch the executable size go up, up, up into tens of megabytes and beyond... It's time for to rewrite them both to use a more modern method of factoring, I guess. It's been some 2500 years or so; ole' good Eratosthenes could use some rest :) Have a good one, Anatoly. P.S. What's the "politically correct" way to specify a long long in FreeBSD: 'long long'? 'int64_t'? 'quad_t'? -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:48:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14160 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:47:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id JAA00900; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:48:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802252248.JAA00900@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? In-Reply-To: <19980226002846.05689@techunix.technion.ac.il> from Anatoly Vorobey at "Feb 26, 98 00:28:46 am" To: mellon@pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:48:34 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > P.S. What's the "politically correct" way to specify a long long > in FreeBSD: 'long long'? 'int64_t'? 'quad_t'? long long, IMO. There is nothing to say how many bytes in a 'long long'. If you are explicitly coding to a 64-bit value, then use int64_t so that the arch specific headers will DTRT. I'd be included to stay away from quad_t. For instance, printf formats that use %q need a long long, not a quad_t. I'm having to fix things like this to get the FreeBSD source to work on alpha. FWIW, gcc 2.7.2.2 on alpha has sizeof(long) = sizeof(long long) = 8. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:49:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14647 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:49:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14579 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA20038; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:48:33 -0800 (PST) To: Max Euston cc: "'Julian Elischer'" , "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:41:11 EST." <01BD420C.2FCDD020.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:48:33 -0800 Message-ID: <20035.888446913@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (Feeling REALLY sheepish... going back to RTFM and play with FreeBSD for a > few more days...). Nothing to feel sheepish about - you're willing to *contribute* and that already puts you up in the top 1% of FreeBSD users, regardless, and certainly wins you an entry in my good book. :) Don't worry too much about inadvertantly attempting to reinvent the wheel sometimes - there are a LOT of "wheels" in FreeBSD and even most of us don't know them all. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:54:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:54:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16244 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:54:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA12957; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:54:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225165403.33142@emsphone.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:54:03 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: freebsd@isvara.net, Karl Denninger Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net>; from "freebsd@isvara.net" on Wed Feb 25 19:58:20 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-970701-RELENG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 25), freebsd@isvara.net said: > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the > best money can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of > 250UKP). It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to > give the fastest performance. > > Check it out on: > http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400250a.html#Parallel > and > http://www.3com.com/solutions/200399.html Are you sure about that? According to the first URL you gave, the Fast Etherlink XL cas only a 4K buffer, split 2K/2K Send/Receive. This makes it useless for NFS, as a fragmented 8K packet will never get through (I've seen it happen on a P6/200). The non-XL cards have a 64K buffer, but only come in ISA or EISA flavors. The XL is PCI-only. In addition, the "Parallel Tasking" feature of their NICs only works when you use 3Com switches/hubs at the other end. I don't have a reference for this though. I think it was in a recent PC Week article. I would lean toward the Intel EtherExpress/Pro, myself. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 14:59:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17615 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14216; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:56:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252256.OAA14216@implode.root.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:38:05 CST." <19980225143805.18181@mcs.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:56:37 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? The A boards use a different NIC and are not supported. >> The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money >> can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). >> It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest >> performance. The 3Com 3c905 driver in FreeBSD uses the card in compatibility mode (non- DMA programmed I/O) and is thus the slowest/highest overhead board that we support. The Intel PCI Pro/100B and Pro/100+ are the fastest/lowest overhead boards that we support, followed by the DEC boards. I haven't measured the performance of the new SMC cards, but I doubt that it is any lower overhead than the Intel cards. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:11:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20059 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:11:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19638; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-52.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.180]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14831; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id PAA20130; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:08:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802252308.PAA20130@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org CC: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, tom@sdf.com In-reply-to: (message from Simon Shapiro on Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:19:41 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:19:41 -0800 (PST) * From: Simon Shapiro * Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, tom@sdf.com * * * On 25-Feb-98 Satoshi Asami wrote: * * ... * * > * Someone the freebsd-scsi list is working on this. Rather than a * > simple * > * backup design, he is working on simultanous use of both host adapters * > at * > * the same time, by two separate computers. The two systems communicate * > to * > * make sure they don't step on each others toes when accessing the * > disks. * > * The idea is to make a fully fault-tolerant cluster. Just to clarify, I didn't write this. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:22:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:22:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22756 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:22:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 16122 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Feb 1998 23:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802251835.TAA01401@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:28:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, tom@sdf.com, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: ... > Who will write the CFS ? ;-) (cluster file system) Shhhh... Are you trying to spoil ALL the fun? :-) ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:25:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23259 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23175 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:24:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 16284 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Feb 1998 23:31:23 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802251848.TAA01481@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:31:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, (Jay Nelson) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: ... > Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things > like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another > kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23426 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:25:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23374 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:25:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-93.cetlink.net [209.54.58.93]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA18836; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:24:49 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:25:04 GMT Message-ID: <34f4b362.667778@mail.cetlink.net> References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA23385 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:15 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years >> ago in Data Communications. > >Did he have an axe to grind? Not that I know of. >> He said token ring would run at full 16mb wire speed while Ethernet >> would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. > >Right, and none of us have ever seen more than 7 Mb/s out of a 10 Mb >Ethernet, right? You're dodging the collision issue. I've seen 10mb between two stations on my BNC Ethernet when nothing else is on the wire, but more stations talking will cause throughput to fall off. >Any such statement *must* be qualified by the test conditions. He probably tested it more thoroughly than either one of us have. Why not read his report instead of throwing stones? -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:29:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24649 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA24544 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y7pyz-00048t-00; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:11:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: freebsd@isvara.net cc: Karl Denninger , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > performance. Whatever. 3COM has a bad history for poor performing cards. The rev A Etherlink XL is a dog. Excessive CPU usage, and poor network bandwidth. The Intel Etherexpress Pro/100B or Pro/100+ is without a doubt, the best ethernet card for FreeBSD. Period. The driver is stable, and fairly small. Intel doesn't make frequent rev changes that break compatibility either. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:30:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:30:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24870 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11751; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:42 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA01673; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980226095941.45367@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Kelly Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b362.667778@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34f4b362.667778@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 12:25:04AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 February 1998 at 0:25:04 +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:15 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> It doesn't jive at all with test results Tolly published several years >>> ago in Data Communications. >> >> Did he have an axe to grind? > > Not that I know of. > >>> He said token ring would run at full 16mb wire speed while Ethernet >>> would degrade to 7mb because of collisions. >> >> Right, and none of us have ever seen more than 7 Mb/s out of a 10 Mb >> Ethernet, right? > > You're dodging the collision issue. Not at all. > I've seen 10mb between two stations on my BNC Ethernet when nothing > else is on the wire, but more stations talking will cause throughput > to fall off. Sure. That's the whole point. Without stating the test conditions, the figure of 7 Mb/s is meaningless. >> Any such statement *must* be qualified by the test conditions. > > He probably tested it more thoroughly than either one of us have. Sre. > Why not read his report instead of throwing stones? Did you publish a URL? In any case, I wasn't so much complaining about the report as picking an unqualified value from it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26193 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25691 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id PAA18696 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:21:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:21:23 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199802252321.PAA18696@monk.via.net> Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG how about putting that funcationality into wc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 15:34:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26508 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:34:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (root@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26418 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:34:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id BAA25713; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:08:12 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980226010811.44978@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:08:11 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: John Birrell Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <19980226002846.05689@techunix.technion.ac.il> <199802252248.JAA00900@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199802252248.JAA00900@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 09:48:34AM +1100 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, John Birrell, were spotted writing this on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 09:48:34AM +1100: > Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > > P.S. What's the "politically correct" way to specify a long long > > in FreeBSD: 'long long'? 'int64_t'? 'quad_t'? > > long long, IMO. There is nothing to say how many bytes in a 'long long'. I understand that historically, it was a hack to avoid sizeof(long)==8 which would break too many existing sloppy sources? > I'd be included to stay away from quad_t. For instance, printf formats > that use %q need a long long, not a quad_t. However, that's not what man 3 printf says: o The optional character q, specifying that a following d, i, o, u, x, or X conversion corresponds to a quad int or unsigned quad int argu- ment, or that a following n conversion corresponds to a pointer to a quad int argument. Maybe it should get fixed then? > I'm having to fix things like > this to get the FreeBSD source to work on alpha. FWIW, gcc 2.7.2.2 on alpha > has sizeof(long) = sizeof(long long) = 8. That's probably the Right Thing to do. Or maybe even better would be to sizeof(long)==8, sizeof(long long)==16? I'd expect it to break an awful lot of things anyhow. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:00:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:00:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00478 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28704 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:59:49 GMT Message-ID: <34F4B048.2E75FAA5@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:59:04 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <34F47A40.CE76ADE7@3skel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Janowski wrote: > freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > > can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > > It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > > performance. > > How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? It is faster than it, and uses less processor bandwidth. Check the 3com site. One thing which would certainly help, is drivers to utilize the new features of the card (eg. full PCI bus-master scatter-gather lists). Thanks, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:02:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00791 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:01:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11815; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:31:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA01831; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:31:13 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980226103112.06628@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:31:12 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: John Kelly Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b362.667778@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226095941.45367@freebie.lemis.com> <34f5bbff.2870764@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34f5bbff.2870764@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 12:54:56AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 February 1998 at 0:54:56 +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:41 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Without stating the test conditions, the figure of 7 Mb/s is >> meaningless. > > I don't think so. It corroborates what common sense tells me. > >>> Why not read his report instead of throwing stones? >> >> Did you publish a URL? > > AFAIK, it's not on the web. It was in Data Communications magazine > several years ago. I no longer have the issue but it's sure to be > available in a good library. > >> In any case, I wasn't so much complaining about the report as picking >> an unqualified value from it. > > He's not the only one saying it. But I've never heard anyone take > your position before. Do you have an axe to grind? No. I think you're missing the point. I don't know how to explain in any more detail than I already have. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00838 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28724 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:02:05 GMT Message-ID: <34F4B0D1.1A2F5D13@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:21 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <19980225143805.18181@mcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? Rev B now has full PCI bus master capability, as well as more optimizations in the core controller. It says it all on the site. BTW: I have the tech docs, and will at some point write efficient drivers for this new card. Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02303 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:05:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28748 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:05:30 GMT Message-ID: <34F4B19E.E2C3286B@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:04:46 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <34F47A40.CE76ADE7@3skel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Janowski wrote: > How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums automagically in hardware! This will lower CPU usage quite a bit AFAICT, assuming processor time is not eaten up by the drivers unduly. Thanks, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04076 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04021 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:11:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28793 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:11:21 GMT Message-ID: <34F4B2FD.3530EDEE@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:10:37 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <19980225165403.33142@emsphone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Nelson wrote: > Are you sure about that? According to the first URL you gave, the Fast > Etherlink XL cas only a 4K buffer, split 2K/2K Send/Receive. This > makes it useless for NFS, as a fragmented 8K packet will never get > through (I've seen it happen on a P6/200). The non-XL cards have a 64K > buffer, but only come in ISA or EISA flavors. The XL is PCI-only. All the buffer is used for is to transfer data to/from the card. It is in no way a cache, etc.With the efficiency of the PCI bus, and bus-mastering, that is all that is required. > In addition, the "Parallel Tasking" feature of their NICs only works > when you use 3Com switches/hubs at the other end. I don't have a > reference for this though. I think it was in a recent PC Week article. No. You may be thinking of the 'auto negotiation' feature. Parallel Tasking (and new Parallel Tasking II in rev B) is the name given to the ethernet engine. It has nothing to do with the physical layer. Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04184 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04098 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12546; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:11:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA21527; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:11:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:11:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199802260011.RAA21527@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Alfred Perlstein" Cc: "Terry Lambert" , , Subject: Re: so how goes java? In-Reply-To: <02f901bd424a$33dd5bc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> References: <02f901bd424a$33dd5bc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ok, so what do I need to do to get a situation where the threads would > alternate printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B" when they are just busy > looping? Create your own scheduling thread that has a higher-priority than threads A and B. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:12:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04248 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:12:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04178 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA29566; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:14:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:14:37 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Graham Wheeler cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199802241621.SAA00278@cdsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Graham Wheeler wrote: > Looks like bad RAM, or possibly badly seated RAM. I have experienced exactly > the same problem; swapped the SIMMs with another machines and the problem > disappeared (so it was a seating problem). Well, I reseated the RAM, and when that didn't work I bought a SIMM and swapped out each of my own (not at the same time :). No change. What should I try next? I can repost the results of my investigation so far if that would help. I am: stumped here. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:25:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:25:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06962 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08184; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:10:37 GMT Message-ID: <02f901bd424a$33dd5bc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" Cc: , Subject: Re: so how goes java? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:05:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> >They are not pre-emptive. >> >> (figures since until recently the SUN version was also co-operative) >> one of my first things (besides fixing this problem) is to look into native >> threads, co-operative multitasking is an oxymoron. >> i also plan on having several snapshots of 3.0 compiled versions of the >> port. i'll inform the porting team when my NDA is all set and good. > >Do not confuse call conversion threading with Yield-based threading. > >Though call conversion threading is non-preemptive, one thread will >not be blocked simply because another thread has made a blocking >call. This is the point of call conversion. > >Kernel threading buys you SMP scalability (assuming there is ever >code changes checked in to ensure thread-CPU affinity), and a much >higher context switch overhead. ummm I think you just caused my brain to hemorrhage... :) but let me try to rephrase that just to make sure i understand. if we have 2 threads busy looping, for instance just printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B", whichever thread starts first will not allow the other thread to execute, correct? however if one thread tries to do a disk access or something that could possibly block like a socket operation, the other thread will be allowed to start executing? ok, so what do I need to do to get a situation where the threads would alternate printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B" when they are just busy looping? i think i understand that what you are refering to as kernel threads would work, however you also say they have a heavy overhead? are there any alternatives? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:33:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:33:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08610 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id LAA28287; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:33:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802260033.LAA28287@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Feb 25, 98 06:14:37 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:33:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Snob Art Genre wrote: > Well, I reseated the RAM, and when that didn't work I bought a SIMM and > swapped out each of my own (not at the same time :). No change. What > should I try next? I can repost the results of my investigation so far if > that would help. I am: stumped here. I had a similar sort of crash with 2.2.5 trying to update it to current. I thought it was memory too, but reseating that had no effect. Then I noticed that the CPU fan had come unstuck (it doesn't have a clip like it probably should). After putting the fan back, the system has run reliably since. So as a long shot, is there enough air flow to keep the processor "cool"? 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:35:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:35:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09047 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28830 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:15:41 GMT Message-ID: <34F4B400.4A93CDE1@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:14:57 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802252256.OAA14216@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > >What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? > > The A boards use a different NIC and are not supported. There is no 'A' chipset. There is Vortex (3c509), Boomerang (3c905) and Cyclone (3c905B). > The 3Com 3c905 driver in FreeBSD uses the card in compatibility mode (non- > DMA programmed I/O) and is thus the slowest/highest overhead board that we > support. This is an issue with the driver fortunately, so it is possible to solve this with some new code. Seen as ethernet card support is quite a core server thing, it would be great for a better driver to be written. All is told in the tech docs available freely from Terry Murphy at 3com. > _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:39:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09944 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09852 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:39:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from exit1.i485.net (ts2-cltnc-93.cetlink.net [209.54.58.93]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA21948; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:54:31 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Chris Dillon , Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:54:56 GMT Message-ID: <34f5bbff.2870764@mail.cetlink.net> References: <34F37C2A@smginc.com> <19980225122411.62329@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b8d8.6646364@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226083615.55804@freebie.lemis.com> <34f4b362.667778@mail.cetlink.net> <19980226095941.45367@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <19980226095941.45367@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA09872 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:41 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >Without stating the test conditions, the figure of 7 Mb/s is >meaningless. I don't think so. It corroborates what common sense tells me. >> Why not read his report instead of throwing stones? > >Did you publish a URL? AFAIK, it's not on the web. It was in Data Communications magazine several years ago. I no longer have the issue but it's sure to be available in a good library. >In any case, I wasn't so much complaining about the report as picking >an unqualified value from it. He's not the only one saying it. But I've never heard anyone take your position before. Do you have an axe to grind? -- Browser war over, Mozilla now free. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 16:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14182 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlittell@onramp.net) Received: from daze (ppp12-58.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.200.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA10391 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:53:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F4BC1C.3F54BC7E@onramp.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:49:32 -0600 From: Dave Littell Organization: Yeah, right..like we need this! X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David E. Cross wrote: > [deletia] > > FDDI/CDDI is token ring too. > FDDI is indeed a token-passing network with a ring topology, but the similarities don't extend much further. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:20:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18706 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:19:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlittell@onramp.net) Received: from daze (ppp12-58.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.200.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA20289 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:19:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F4C1EC.FF6D5DF@onramp.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:43 -0600 From: Dave Littell Organization: Yeah, right..like we need this! X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <199802250219.VAA23312@spooky.rwwa.com> <854t1n3a5l.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dave Marquardt wrote: > [deletia] > > I work for IBM, so I can speak to this a little. IBM has all of these > large corporate customers (including IBM itself) that have a big > investment in Token Ring. If they can keep these people happy by > creating 100 Mb/sec. token ring on the same wiring, they'll make some > money. That's what's driving IBM. > Ah, but there's the key - it's only the physical wiring that stays the same. You'll have to swap out all the adapters *and* all the driver software on all the systems involved *and* almost certainly all the MAU's. So, if you're going that far already, why not just put use FDDI over the same STP that's already there and get away from all those boneheaded Token Ring quirks? Even after all these years, IBM apparently still has that "Not Invented Here" attitude. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:22:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19306 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:22:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19178 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:21:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlittell@onramp.net) Received: from daze (ppp12-58.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.200.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21231 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:21:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F4C2C6.ABD322C@onramp.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:17:58 -0600 From: Dave Littell Organization: Yeah, right..like we need this! X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom wrote: > [deletia] > > I worked on a token-ring network about 4 years ago. It was the fastest > LAN you could buy at that point. > Uh, ever hear of a magic thing called FDDI? Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20843 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20830 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:31:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlittell@onramp.net) Received: from daze (ppp12-58.dllstx.onramp.net [206.50.200.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA24807 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:30:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F4C4ED.31DFF4F5@onramp.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:27:09 -0600 From: Dave Littell Organization: Yeah, right..like we need this! X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? References: <14181.888392839@verdi.nethelp.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > > For example, can you guarantee, > > mathematically, that you can get a given mount of data across the network > > in a given amount of time, worst-case? Can't do that with Ethernet, since > > it works too chaotically. In token-passing and polling based networks, > > you can say with certainty that even under maximum load, you can get a > > packet from one machine to another in X milliseconds. > > Sorry, it's not that simple. On a token ring network, tokens can get lost. > Yes, this happens in real life. So any "guarantee" that you give for token > ring networks is based on statistics. > Yeah, it really is that simple. Token loss recovery time has an upper bound and token ring-based networks degrade gracefully, ensuring some non-zero throughput even at 100% offered load. I believe there are meltdown scenarios in Ethernet that guarantee you'll never get anything out. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lamb.sas.com (root@lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22672 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:41:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (wether.sas.com [192.35.83.31]) by lamb.sas.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA23750 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from iluvatar.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA04425; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:18 -0500 From: "John W. DeBoskey" Received: by iluvatar.unx.sas.com (5.65c/SAS/Generic 9.01/3-26-93) id AA06287; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199802260115.AA06287@iluvatar.unx.sas.com> Subject: 3Com 3C985-SX Gigabit NIC driver development? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:18 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, The subject pretty much says it all. If anyone is working on, or knows someone who is working on, a driver for the 3C985-SX Gigabit ethernet card, would you please drop me a msg? A point of confusion is that 3.0-CURRENT doesn't even see the card in any fashion. I was under the (apparently wrong) assumption that the vx0 driver would see but not recognize it. Thanks, John -- jwd@unx.sas.com (w) John W. De Boskey (919) 677-8000 x6915 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:54:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25334 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:54:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16007; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:52:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260152.RAA16007@implode.root.com> To: freebsd@isvara.net cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:14:57 GMT." <34F4B400.4A93CDE1@challenge.isvara.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:52:25 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >David Greenman wrote: > >> >What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? >> >> The A boards use a different NIC and are not supported. > >There is no 'A' chipset. There is Vortex (3c509), Boomerang (3c905) and Cyclone >(3c905B). Sorry, I misunderstood the context and thought that he was asking about the Intel Pro/100A vs Pro/100B. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 17:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25902 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16052; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:55:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260155.RAA16052@implode.root.com> To: "John W. DeBoskey" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3Com 3C985-SX Gigabit NIC driver development? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:18 EST." <199802260115.AA06287@iluvatar.unx.sas.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:55:40 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The subject pretty much says it all. If anyone is working on, or >knows someone who is working on, a driver for the 3C985-SX Gigabit >ethernet card, would you please drop me a msg? I'd like to, but don't have the necessary hardware (cards and switch). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:10:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27933 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:10:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA13692; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:10:19 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA29557; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:10:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225201019.27829@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:10:19 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Dan Nelson Cc: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225125126.05029@mcs.net> <34F477DC.41FD810D@challenge.isvara.net> <19980225165403.33142@emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19980225165403.33142@emsphone.com>; from Dan Nelson on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 04:54:03PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 04:54:03PM -0600, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Feb 25), freebsd@isvara.net said: > > The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the > > best money can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of > > 250UKP). It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to > > give the fastest performance. > > > > Check it out on: > > http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400250a.html#Parallel > > and > > http://www.3com.com/solutions/200399.html > > Are you sure about that? According to the first URL you gave, the Fast > Etherlink XL cas only a 4K buffer, split 2K/2K Send/Receive. This > makes it useless for NFS, as a fragmented 8K packet will never get > through (I've seen it happen on a P6/200). The non-XL cards have a 64K > buffer, but only come in ISA or EISA flavors. The XL is PCI-only. > > In addition, the "Parallel Tasking" feature of their NICs only works > when you use 3Com switches/hubs at the other end. I don't have a > reference for this though. I think it was in a recent PC Week article. > > I would lean toward the Intel EtherExpress/Pro, myself. > > -Dan Nelson > dnelson@emsphone.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Considering that the application is an NFS server, this kind of issue is very important to me indeed! :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:11:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28090 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28081 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA13889; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA29604; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:18 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225201118.40285@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:18 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: dg@root.com Cc: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225143805.18181@mcs.net> <199802252256.OAA14216@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802252256.OAA14216@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:56:37PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:56:37PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >What's the difference between the REV A and REV B boards? > > The A boards use a different NIC and are not supported. > > >> The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > >> can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > >> It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > >> performance. > > The 3Com 3c905 driver in FreeBSD uses the card in compatibility mode (non- > DMA programmed I/O) and is thus the slowest/highest overhead board that we > support. The Intel PCI Pro/100B and Pro/100+ are the fastest/lowest overhead > boards that we support, followed by the DEC boards. I haven't measured the > performance of the new SMC cards, but I doubt that it is any lower overhead > than the Intel cards. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:15:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29235 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:15:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (3jvi/BcVl8UawYkba6h5aALfvlfsvpUY@tok.qiv.com [204.214.141.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29224 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:15:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id UAA03506; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:15:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01698; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:02:56 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:02:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jay Nelson To: Simon Shapiro cc: Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > >On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > ... > >> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another >> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > >Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. Fantastic. And journaled file systems, too? Great news. Please keep us posted. Are you using any of the MOSIX work? >---------- > > >Sincerely Yours, > >Simon Shapiro >Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:16:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29276 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:15:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16197; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:13:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260213.SAA16197@implode.root.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:18 CST." <19980225201118.40285@mcs.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:13:53 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> >> The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money >> >> can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). >> >> It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest >> >> performance. >> >> The 3Com 3c905 driver in FreeBSD uses the card in compatibility mode (non- >> DMA programmed I/O) and is thus the slowest/highest overhead board that we >> support. The Intel PCI Pro/100B and Pro/100+ are the fastest/lowest overhead >> boards that we support, followed by the DEC boards. I haven't measured the >> performance of the new SMC cards, but I doubt that it is any lower overhead >> than the Intel cards. > >The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. The key word in the above is "new". The SMC9432TX uses the SMC83c170 chip, NOT the DEC chip. We have preliminary support for it in the 'tx' device driver. >Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? The Pro/100+ uses the 82558 chip, which has an integrated PHY. It is software compatible and performs identically to the Pro/100B. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:18:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29826 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:18:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29776 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:18:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id CAA02088 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:17:37 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:17:37 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: cshort - speaking of new utilities In-Reply-To: <01BD4207.4AA87440.meuston@jmrodgers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone written something like cshort? Basically, cshort is filter you apply to C files to give you shortened views of the file. You specify different levels of detail. For example, level 0 just returns the source unchanged and level 1 returns only the function signatures. cshort -L 1 foo.c -------------------- int foobar1(a) int a; int foobar2(a) int a; -------------------- Level 2 returns pre-conditions and post-conditions. You could probably make a .cshortrc to specify what these look like. cshort -L 2 foo.c -------------------- int foobar(a) int a; REQUIRE(a > 0); ENSURE(retval < 100); int foobar(a) int a; REQUIRE(a > 1); Level 3 returns all of the above plus comments. cshort -L 3 foo.c ----------------------- /* * My foobar prog... */ int foobar(a) int a; /* * Pre-condition */ REQUIRE(a>0); /* * Calculate the N-Cube graphical inverse vortex. */ /* * Post-condition */ ENSURE(retval < 100); For Freebsd, you might add an option to skip the first comment which is usually a long copyright. This is from the Eiffel programming environment, but I think the idea is pretty useful for C. Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F, 2-5-12 Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:20:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:20:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00343 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:19:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA14182; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:19:49 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA29782; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:19:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225201949.25898@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:19:49 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: dg@root.com Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225201118.40285@mcs.net> <199802260213.SAA16197@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802260213.SAA16197@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 06:13:53PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 06:13:53PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >> >> The recently released 3com Fast Etherink XL (rev B) 3C905B NIC is the best money > >> >> can buy (apart from server cards costing upwards of 250UKP). > >> >> It has lower CPU usage than any other card, helping it to give the fastest > >> >> performance. > >> > >> The 3Com 3c905 driver in FreeBSD uses the card in compatibility mode (non- > >> DMA programmed I/O) and is thus the slowest/highest overhead board that we > >> support. The Intel PCI Pro/100B and Pro/100+ are the fastest/lowest overhead > >> boards that we support, followed by the DEC boards. I haven't measured the > >> performance of the new SMC cards, but I doubt that it is any lower overhead > >> than the Intel cards. > > > >The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > > The key word in the above is "new". The SMC9432TX uses the SMC83c170 > chip, NOT the DEC chip. We have preliminary support for it in the 'tx' > device driver. > > >Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? > > The Pro/100+ uses the 82558 chip, which has an integrated PHY. It is > software compatible and performs identically to the Pro/100B. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project Thanks. So the only card to "beware of" is the PRO/100A, which isn't supported? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01160 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:22:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16346; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:20:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260220.SAA16346@implode.root.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:19:49 CST." <19980225201949.25898@mcs.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:20:40 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Thanks. So the only card to "beware of" is the PRO/100A, which isn't >supported? Yes, but those are quite rare and when they were still being sold were quite expensive (>$250). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02695 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02506 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id CAA02170; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:24:58 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:24:58 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Karl Denninger cc: Wilko Bulte , Jay Nelson , blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: <19980225132146.02016@mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > If it blew chunks then FSCK has to run - and you damn well better be using a > journaled filesystem or this is going to take a LONG time (ie: 20 minutes to > an hour if you have some large disk storage involved here). > > This is one reason, by the way, that LFS being in a "working" state is > important to these kinds of efforts. > > IBM has a solution that they've sold for quite some time based on AIX (which > inherently uses jfs, a journalled filesystem) which does exactly this. There are also ways to avoid having to do an fsck using the softupdates framework and this is one of Kirk McKusick's next projects. Regards, Mike Hancock To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04904 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamada@astec.co.jp) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id LAA16510; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:36:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from stone.astec.co.jp (stone.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.23]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.7.6/3.6Wbeta5-astecMX2.4) with ESMTP id LAA11880; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:36:30 +0900 (JST) Received: (from hamada@localhost) by stone.astec.co.jp (8.8.5/3.5W-solaris1-1.2) id LAA07202; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:36:27 +0900 (JST) To: FreeBSD Hackers CC: freebsd@isvara.net From: Naoki Hamada Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <34F4B19E.E2C3286B@challenge.isvara.net> Date: 26 Feb 1998 11:36:25 +0900 In-Reply-To: freebsd@isvara.net's message of Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:04:46 +0000 Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel J Blueman wrote: >One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums >automagically in hardware! > >This will lower CPU usage quite a bit AFAICT, assuming >processor time is not eaten up by the drivers unduly. Though this feature is quite attractive, there should be a quite horrible layer violating kluge to implement it. Do you have any good idea? - nao To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 18:46:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:46:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06512 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:45:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21962; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:44:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260244.SAA21962@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd@isvara.net cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:04:46 GMT." <34F4B19E.E2C3286B@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:44:42 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Dan Janowski wrote: > > > How does it compare to the Intel EtherExpress Pro 100B? > > One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums automagically > in hardware! Oh great. This card was designed *explicitly* for Windows systems, where they think it's funny for the network adapter driver to know enough about the protocol layer to manage junk like this. > This will lower CPU usage quite a bit AFAICT, assuming processor time is > not eaten up by the drivers unduly. Wonderful. And does it handle eg. IPv6? Can you program the checksum algorithm, or is it hardcoded? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:00:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:00:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08471 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:00:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06822; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:00:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199802260300.VAA06822@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: dg@root.com cc: "John W. DeBoskey" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3Com 3C985-SX Gigabit NIC driver development? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:55:40 PST." <199802260155.RAA16052@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:00:08 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> The subject pretty much says it all. If anyone is working on, or >>knows someone who is working on, a driver for the 3C985-SX Gigabit >>ethernet card, would you please drop me a msg? > > I'd like to, but don't have the necessary hardware (cards and switch). I looked at 3coms page, and I can't even find it. God, what a horrible page. Anyways, are these cards supposedly good? 64bit? If they are decent, I may be able to get a few to play with. :) Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:10:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09876 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 20117 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Feb 1998 03:16:55 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:16:55 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Jay Nelson Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wilko Bulte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Feb-98 Jay Nelson wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > >> >>On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> ... >> >>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another >>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >> >>Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. > > Fantastic. And journaled file systems, too? Great news. Please keep us > posted. Are you using any of the MOSIX work? JFS is someone else's bag. He/She is on this list. Again, patience is the key here. I am using mainly Simon work. What is MOSIX ? ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:12:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:12:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09986 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22086; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:09:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260309.TAA22086@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Karl Denninger cc: dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:18 CST." <19980225201118.40285@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:09:07 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. The new ones aren't. You should get out more often. 8) (They haven't been for at least the last 6 months.) > Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? The model number? Seriously, I believe the 100+ is a reduced manufacturing cost, backwards-compatible version of the 100B. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:15:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11318 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA15883; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:14:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id VAA01653; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:14:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980225211459.16323@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:14:59 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Mike Smith Cc: dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <19980225201118.40285@mcs.net> <199802260309.TAA22086@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199802260309.TAA22086@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:09:07PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:09:07PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > > The new ones aren't. You should get out more often. 8) Hmmm... well, then someone has old stock and that's a good thing :-) > (They haven't been for at least the last 6 months.) > > > Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? > > The model number? Seriously, I believe the 100+ is a reduced > manufacturing cost, backwards-compatible version of the 100B. Thanks. I'll get a few of those in-house and try 'em. I'm assuming they do 10 and 100Mbps? I really HATE the idea of having to stock two boards, and we do use 10Mbps connections for a lot of stuff. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:24:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13598 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:24:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13560 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05715; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd005699; Wed Feb 25 20:24:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA20706; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:24:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802260324.UAA20706@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? To: mellon@pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:24:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980226010811.44978@techunix.technion.ac.il> from "Anatoly Vorobey" at Feb 26, 98 01:08:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > long long, IMO. There is nothing to say how many bytes in a 'long long'. > > I understand that historically, it was a hack to avoid sizeof(long)==8 > which would break too many existing sloppy sources? Ugh. Not again. Historically, it's because you need sized types for 8, 16, 32, and 64 to acess hardware registers on 64 bit machines, and char, short, and long weren't enough to express this, and int can't be bigger than long and it's stupid for int to be 32 if a 64 bit transfer takes a single bus cycle. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:48:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pyrl.eye (ppp-37.isl.net [199.3.25.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19356 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ortmann@sparc.isl.net) Received: (from ortmann@localhost) by pyrl.eye (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19465; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:47:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ortmann) From: Daniel Ortmann Message-Id: <199802260347.VAA19465@pyrl.eye> Subject: Re: Token Ring In-Reply-To: <199802251455.PAA10915@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Feb 25, 98 03:55:37 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:47:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kpneal@pobox.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Which is why I ran Linux while inside IBM and FreeBSD elsewhere. > > Token Ring is needed for many environments. Johnson & Johnson's running > ... > > I think FreeBSD should consider expanding its support in this area. > > the point is, there is no "FreeBSD" company or individual, and most > -hackers or core team happen to live in a better world and not have > interest (or perhaps) time to invest in developing token ring drivers > (whic means also hunting documentation etc. etc.) I'll scrounge all the token documentation possible from inside IBM for anyone volunteering to build a driver. (A colleague is running some ported apps on L___x. I'd like to see FreeBSD on that box instead.) I'll also volunteer to test it as much as possible. -- Daniel Ortmann 507.288.7732 (h) ortmann@isl.net 2414 30 av NW, #D 507.253.6795 (w) ortmann@vnet.ibm.com Rochester, MN 55901 "PERL: The Swiss Army Chainsaw" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 19:59:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23564 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:58:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09200; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:58:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd009083; Wed Feb 25 20:58:32 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22328; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:58:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802260358.UAA22328@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: so how goes java? To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:58:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <02f901bd424a$33dd5bc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> from "Alfred Perlstein" at Feb 25, 98 07:05:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ummm I think you just caused my brain to hemorrhage... :) > but let me try to rephrase that just to make sure i understand. > > if we have 2 threads busy looping, for instance just printing "i'm thread A" > and "i'm thread B", whichever thread starts first will not allow the other > thread to execute, correct? > > however if one thread tries to do a disk access or something that could > possibly block like a socket operation, the other thread will be allowed to > start executing? Yes. And in the first case, if the I/O can't be accomplished immediately, both threads will run. > ok, so what do I need to do to get a situation where the threads would > alternate printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B" when they are just busy > looping? You will have to modify the threads scheduler, since it won't "round-robin" things. Then when it goes to check if it can do the write, it will decide to context switch between them. > i think i understand that what you are refering to as kernel threads would > work, however you also say they have a heavy overhead? Yes. They do a full process context switch when you make a blocking call. You are not guaranted that the remainder of your quantum will be given to another thread in your process ("why" is a discussion on "starvation and deadlock"; suffice it to say, you can starve other processes, starve yourself, or, if there are N user threads and M kernel threads, where N > M, like some Solaris/SVR4 implementation models, you get to CPU-starve M-N threads that are runnable). Effectively, this makes each of your threads a process like any other process on the system, with the caveat that, IF you *happen* to pick "thread B" after involuntarily context switching "thread A", instead of one of the other 70 processes on your system, THEN you won't take a full context switch overhead. They have a minor advantage that they compete as M processes instead of as 1 process, as in user space threading. > are there any alternatives? Depends on your processing model. Frequently, you could use "shared context, multiple process", where your model was "work to do". This roughly means that you put everything in shared memory and share the fd table. Basically this is exactly kernel threading with RFORK, except that everything not in the shared memory segment/mapped region is thread local storage, and you don't have to worry about preallocating your stack (it gets to grow dynamically instead). This beats kernel threading in a couple of cases; mostly when your I/O can be "stacked", that is, you get to express a preference for a thread. Typically you would do this with a kernel mux or arbitration process and IPC to dole work-to-do out in FILO order. The point of doing this is that the last thread to be waiting to do more work is more likely to have all of its necessary pages in core (I invented this for the NetWare for UNIX server; it's called "Hot Engine Scheduling"; the NetWare for UNIX server scorned ). This way you don't have to "bend over" as much for the scheduler as you would for the kernel threading case (the SVR4/Solaris answer to this is that you should write a new scheduling class, like that's trivial, and you should always know ahead of time how much stack you will use, etc.). The absolute best model (as far as a process is concerned) is a user and kernel space cooperative scheduler. This has the context switch advantage of a user space scheduler, the full quantum consumption advantage of a user space scheduler, and the SMP scalability and quantum competition advantages of a kernel scheduler. Unfortunately, no commercial OS has one of these yet, nor is likely to in the near future, as far as I can tell (I tried to get one started at USL, but you can't modify the tree there if you cross platform independent parts, unless you get a note from God; I was barely able to get descriptor table sharing in as a modification to fork and the procfs, and I had a clear case in favor of that from a lot of database vendors). The main reason you probably won't see this is the way the Streams scheduler is jammed into the system call trap; full quantum utilization would play hell with SVR4/Solaris streams performance. A close approximation of "the absolute best model" would be to have all blocking system calls create a contex, all potentially blocking system calls create a context if they block, else run to completion, and all non-blocking system calls run to completion. This needs an "async call gate" for system calls, which includes context creation and completion mechanisms for use by a scheduler (wait/cancel). It's actually better than "the absolute best model", until you get another CPU -- then it serializes operations unnecessarily. Anyway, that's way more detail than I started out to give, and you can go look at the -current archives if you want more depth. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 20:35:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mars.aros.net (mars.aros.net [207.173.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06345 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:35:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msanders@shell.aros.net) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [207.173.16.19]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA01119; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.aros.net (msanders@localhost.aros.net [127.0.0.1]) by shell.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06816; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:04:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802260404.VAA06816@shell.aros.net> X-Attribution: msanders To: dg@root.com cc: Karl Denninger , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:20:40 PST." <199802260220.SAA16346@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: MH 6.8.3 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:04:40 -0700 From: "Michael K. Sanders" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199802260220.SAA16346@implode.root.com>, David Greenman writes: >>Thanks. So the only card to "beware of" is the PRO/100A, which isn't >>supported? > > Yes, but those are quite rare and when they were still being sold were >quite expensive (>$250). ONSALE has had a number of these recently from $29 to $40ish. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 21:02:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15509 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA20703; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Daniel Ortmann cc: Luigi Rizzo , pechter@shell.monmouth.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kpneal@pobox.com Subject: Re: Token Ring In-Reply-To: <199802260347.VAA19465@pyrl.eye> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Daniel Ortmann wrote: > I'll scrounge all the token documentation possible from inside IBM > for anyone volunteering to build a driver. CC anything you find to me please. I'm just going to buy the relevant ISO/IEC specs (8802-2 & 8802-5) and work from there. If anyone has any ISA TokenElites they'd not mind parting with I could use 'em. SMC should be sending me the SDKs any day now. A bit of the 802.2 code appears to be present in sys/netccitt (which appears to have been removed :/) I suspect some of it will be useful. There appears to be sufficient interest in Token Ring support. Would a FreeBSD-tokenring list be appropriate at this point? If nothing else it will move all the dicksizing there (and maybe help maintain some intertia for the coding efforts). /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 21:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24138 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24006 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA19882; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:50:13 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:50:13 -0700 (MST) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199802260550.WAA19882@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Sense ASC 11, ASCQ 0x0c - Unrecovered read errors Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <19980224105842.07731@mcs.net> you wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a question... > > Right now, as the driver stands, if you get a sense return on a disk of > 0x11,0x0c ("Unrecovered read error - recommend rewrite the block"), the > driver does not attempt to do anything about it. > > Why? > > You're screwed in this case - the data is gone. But, some RAID controllers > (notably the CMD adapters) will *FIX* such an error if you write back to the > block. Is the data really gone? Isn't that for the user to decide? I've known disks to report temporary media errors that "dissapear" after they are moved, the temperature changes, or the moon goes full. > Here's the scenario: > > 1) You have a failure on a data drive. It gets reported back with > sense ASC 0x11, 0x0c. > > 2) The driver does not attempt to do anything other than report the > error. I don't believe that it is the driver's responsibility to take action in this case. > This sounds like bogus behavior to me. Here's why: > > You've ALREADY lost the data. This is arguable. > There is no harm in trying to > "fix it". Thus, why not do the following: How does the driver know what it means to fix it? If the bad block is in the MBR, the system may well have this information somewhere in core to restore the data. If the data is in the filesystem, writing one pattern might cause the FS to crash the kernel or confuse fsck, while another may minimize damage. If the "client" of the driver is not going to get the data it expects, an error should be returned, period. > a) Attempt a forced reassign of the block. > b) If that FAILS, write zeros into the block. > > Why do these things you ask? Simple: > > 1) The error, if repeated (or even singly) may cause a panic. If its > in a swap area, for example, you're screwed - you're probably > reading back a page of an executable from the paging space, and if > its corrupted you're going down. The swap pager should terminate the program(s) needing that block if it receives an I/O error. This should not panic the system. If, on the other hand, you remap the block, and silently return garbage data, you may well cause behavior that is recoverable. > 2) If its a data file you MIGHT die. There's no way to know. And the FS may be able to clean up it's data structures to minimize the effect of a missing/corrupted block of data if you tell it that the read operation failed. If you remap it and return garbage, who knows what will happen. > 3) IF YOU DON'T "FIX" IT, YOU WILL GET KILLED EVENTUALLY. This need not be the case. > With a regular disk, (a) above will succeed. You may still crash, but at > least you should come back up. If the data was a file, its gone anyway - > likewise for a directory. There is no harm in trying to prevent FUTURE > errors at that point. I have no problem with the client of the data taking some action to clear an I/O error. There may even need to be an additional API to do this, but the disk driver does not have sufficient information to make the decision on how to perform that recovery. The only safe thing is to report the error until some external action is taken. If the system is not properly dealing with EIO conditions, that is certainly a bug, but your suggested fix is not a correct solution. > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 22:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27636 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27625 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:20:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA12839; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:15:20 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199802260615.IAA12839@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <19980225211459.16323@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Feb 25, 98 09:14:59 pm" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:14:05 +0200 (SAT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:09:07PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > > > > The new ones aren't. You should get out more often. 8) > > Hmmm... well, then someone has old stock and that's a good thing :-) > > > (They haven't been for at least the last 6 months.) > > > > > Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? > > > > The model number? Seriously, I believe the 100+ is a reduced > > manufacturing cost, backwards-compatible version of the 100B. > > Thanks. I'll get a few of those in-house and try 'em. I'm assuming they do > 10 and 100Mbps? I really HATE the idea of having to stock two boards, and > we do use 10Mbps connections for a lot of stuff. > I have been using the PRO/100B in throughput tests and have recently started testing the 100+ too. Both seem excellent and using two PII/266 machines, I get roung about 11410Kbytes/s transfer rates at 100 full-duplex using ttcp. Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 23:07:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04598 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:07:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04593 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06287; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:05:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802260705.XAA06287@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger), mike@smith.net.au, dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 Feb 1998 08:14:05 +0200." <199802260615.IAA12839@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:05:36 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I use NetGear's fast ethernet (Digital's 21140a) if I am not mistaken they may be selling at Fry's (Computer Store), Palo Alto, Ca. for $29 , I bought mine at $39 a couple of months ago. For my two boxes over here , I just connected with a "null" twisted pair cable so no hub. Kept my old 10mb cards to access the net and to avoid buying a fast ethernet hub. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 25 23:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08457 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:38:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22990; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:37:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260737.XAA22990@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com cc: jjw@us.net, danj@3skel.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:33:45 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:37:01 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Cisco has it easy, the PROM is exact for the box it's in, vastly > > minimizing the array 'kernel' services. BTW, doesn't the Cisco come > > with a pre-burned PC-Card memory mard that has all the IOS stuff > > on it? We are not talking about loading system software, with > > Cisco we are merely talking about configuring it, aren't we? > > > By the way, did someone tried to load FreeBSD from ROM ? Something > like Flash ROM card installed into a box through some adapter ? I've booted FreeBSD off a BIOS-level floppy emulation implemented with FLASH memory. What would be much sexier would be XIP out of flash, but that involves some slightly funky hardware and/or magic to make the kernel handle different load addresses. There are quite a few nasty assumptions that would break. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 00:01:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10730 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23066; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:59:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802260759.XAA23066@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Nelson cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:06:41 CST." <19980225000641.64691@emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:59:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Hmm, what did you patch? I just dug up some more-or-less right Imake > > templates off a stale Linux distribution and fixed an include in one > > file. I'll be committing it in a few minutes... > > The following _almost_ works. I must have forgotten a #define > somewhere, as DBMLibrary gets #defined to 0, which screws up line 89 of > Xvnc/programs/Xserver/Imakefile. The link line ends up with a "-lm 0" > at the end. I'm not sure what lines 86-90 are trying to do (should I > #define XFree86Version in FreeBSD.cf?). > > 1. Adjust the Imakefile in the root directory to remove the "unset" stuff Yup. > 2. Create a minimal FreeBSD.cf file in Xvnc/config/: (This could > probably be improved; I've never used xmkmf so I don't know what > #defines are required. I just kept adding things until I got a > clean compile) Ick. I think I did better than this. I also made it support gzipped fonts, which was pretty trivial (modulo a stupid typo that had me wandering all over the place trying to work out what was wrong). I committed this earlier this evening. I also put the java stuff for clients in as a separate port, as you need the JDK for that. This is really really neat software; I can think of quite a pile of uses in embedded systems just to start with. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 00:34:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15346 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15336 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04587; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:33:55 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA24593; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:33:56 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980226093356.27757@follo.net> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:33:56 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? References: <01BD420C.2FCDD020.meuston@jmrodgers.com> <19980226002846.05689@techunix.technion.ac.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980226002846.05689@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from Anatoly Vorobey on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 12:28:46AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 12:28:46AM +0200, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > It won't, at least not easily. It keeps a fixed precomputed table > of all primes up to 2^16 to do a simple sieve (in > /usr/src/games/primes/pr_tbl.c, also used by primes(1)); would be, > err, an interesting exercize to change that to a fixed precomputed > table of all primes up to 2^32 and watch the executable size go up, > up, up into tens of megabytes and beyond... > > It's time for to rewrite them both to use a more modern method > of factoring, I guess. It's been some 2500 years or so; ole' good > Eratosthenes could use some rest :) If somebody need a pure prime-generator, I've got one lying around somewhere. A full sieve, no pre-computed tables. Not top-notch for really large sieving, but OK for <32 bits at least (and could AFAIR scale beyond that; I think I did it as a 2-layer sieve to be able to scale to infinity. Still won't be the fastest method for factoring, though.) License negotiatable (BSD, public domain, GPL - anything you want, as long as it doesn't involve me paying anybody else money at a later date ;-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 00:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA15456 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA27497; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:33:13 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06488; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:34:54 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:34:53 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Simon Shapiro cc: Jay Nelson , blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 26-Feb-98 Jay Nelson wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > >> > >>On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > >> ... > >> > >>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things > >>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another > >>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > >> > >>Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. > > > > Fantastic. And journaled file systems, too? Great news. Please keep us > > posted. Are you using any of the MOSIX work? > > JFS is someone else's bag. He/She is on this list. Again, patience is the > key here. > > I am using mainly Simon work. What is MOSIX ? > Clustering software developed at HUJI (Hebrew University, Jerusalem) on BSD/OS. They have a six-node version you can download called MO6. See: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/labs/distrib/index.html wait... There's even a US mirror (for those of you who don't have 34mbps direct to Jerusalem ;-) ): http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/mirrors/mosix/ > > ---------- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro > Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 02:16:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26414 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15732; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:12:25 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:16:13 +0100 From: "Stefan Bethke" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=AFrgrav?= , ABAMFICI@aol.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: single key shutdown | pulling the plug ideas... Message-ID: <254034.3097480573@stefan.promo.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.3.2, s/n Evaluation] X-Licensed-To: Unlicensed - for evaluation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA26417 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Mit, 25. Feb 1998 13:48 Uhr +0100 "Dag-Erling Coidan Sm¯rgrav" wrote: > ABAMFICI@aol.com writes: >> source if you will, i.e. the plug coming out of the wall. The idea of taking >> out each individual plug (printer, monitor, comptuer, etc.) from the >> powerstrip is well, stupid. :) A small batter pack in the strip wouldn't >> necessarly be noticed, but I'm sure a large backup power box would which >> defeats the purpose of your demonstration if I recall correctly. > > I think you misunderstood. What he wanted was a simple way to shut > down FreeBSD gracefully (without suing to root and typing fasthalt) > because the personnel in charge of the machine at the trade show is > not competent enough to do so. > > In an ATX/APM system, it should be possible to keep the motherboard > from shutting off power when the on/off switch is pressed. You would > catch the event and wire it to fasthalt the way CTRL-ALT-DEL is wired > to fastboot. I'm now taking the easy road with an UPS. Basically, the personnel will pull the plug, and the system will run on the UPS' battery to shutdown itself via the UPS. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 03:03:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00330 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (lORFunj7UDlVqNttlJKnMSzne9wIGs+b@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00318 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.71] ([HtfDbnOUQ/Ew5oIgloMk4xOwFW+sv03e]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y813t-00035S-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:01:10 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y813o-00019A-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:01:04 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:01:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: dannyman "Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)?" (Feb 25, 3:57pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: dannyman , Philippe Regnauld , Mike Smith Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Cc: Max Euston , "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Feb 25, 3:57pm, dannyman wrote: } Subject: Re: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? > > Mike Smith writes: > > > > ... -L ? > > Or -C or -W ... I can't think of anything else ... "columns" "lines" "width" > ??? > > -i for "w-eye-duh" -e for "e"xtra information Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 03:04:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00478 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (0o/MqqdTIO8clXkPlwRz69d7eTyEwf0L@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00454 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.71] ([u61bjq5fo5B7idwTPrDUab3qheUn37C6]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y8167-00035g-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:03:27 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y8161-00019s-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:03:21 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:03:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: Michael Hancock "cshort - speaking of new utilities" (Feb 26, 11:17am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cshort - speaking of new utilities Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Feb 26, 11:17am, Michael Hancock wrote: } Subject: cshort - speaking of new utilities > Has anyone written something like cshort? > > Level 2 returns pre-conditions and post-conditions. You could probably > make a .cshortrc to specify what these look like. > > cshort -L 2 foo.c > -------------------- > int > foobar(a) > int a; > REQUIRE(a > 0); > ENSURE(retval < 100); Ugh, do you really use this precondition stuff? Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 06:33:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:33:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25487 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA13677; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:00:01 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802261300.OAA13677@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:00:00 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i think we have a chicken-egg problem with bootpc_init. the code in autoconf decides what to mount as root depending on various things including nfs_diskless_valid nfs_diskless_valid is set to non-zero value by either the boot rom, or by bootpc_init() (or by a config option BOOTP_NFSROOT, but that's very annoying). Unfortunately bootpc_init() is only called by nfs_mountroot(), which is a bit too late since the decision has already been taken not to call nfs_mountroot() ! Could we move the call to bootpc_init() earlier, e.g. in configure() (file autoconf.c) ? the function is passed a pointer to the nfs_diskless structure, and one which is curproc ... Any idea before i just test this ? cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 06:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:34:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.njcc.com (root@pluto.njcc.com [165.254.117.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25721 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from bigboy (khansen.njcc.com [199.224.2.142]) by pluto.njcc.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA19449; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:32:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F57CBA.2D4D@njcc.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:31:22 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: Reinier Bezuidenhout , Karl Denninger , mike@smith.net.au, dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802260705.XAA06287@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was able to get 3 NetGear FA-310TX cards (DEC 21140a) mentioned below for just under $100 (incl. shipping!) from www.cmpexpress.com - no connection, just a customer. I think the price was $31.XX each and $4.00 S/H. Ken khansen@njcc.com Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I use NetGear's fast ethernet (Digital's 21140a) if I am not mistaken > they may be selling at Fry's (Computer Store), Palo Alto, Ca. for > $29 , I bought mine at $39 a couple of months ago. > > For my two boxes over here , I just connected with a "null" twisted pair > cable so no hub. Kept my old 10mb cards to access the net and to avoid > buying a fast ethernet hub. > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 06:36:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:36:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25871 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:36:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (john@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA06625 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA19536 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:36:00 -0600 (CST) From: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: do you support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know does freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport 40 dual? Are there any better scsi devices you support. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 06:47:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28473 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11153; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:44:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802261444.GAA11153@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: khansen@njcc.com cc: Reinier Bezuidenhout , Karl Denninger , mike@smith.net.au, dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:31:22 EST." <34F57CBA.2D4D@njcc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:44:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It may not be the fastest nor the best however I should love the low cost and performance 8) Cheers, Amancio > I was able to get 3 NetGear FA-310TX cards (DEC 21140a) mentioned below > for just under $100 (incl. shipping!) from www.cmpexpress.com - no > connection, just a customer. > > I think the price was $31.XX each and $4.00 S/H. > > Ken > khansen@njcc.com > > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > I use NetGear's fast ethernet (Digital's 21140a) if I am not mistaken > > they may be selling at Fry's (Computer Store), Palo Alto, Ca. for > > $29 , I bought mine at $39 a couple of months ago. > > > > For my two boxes over here , I just connected with a "null" twisted pair > > cable so no hub. Kept my old 10mb cards to access the net and to avoid > > buying a fast ethernet hub. > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 07:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05113 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05095 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:30:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18230; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:30:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:30:32 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199802260033.LAA28287@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, John Birrell wrote: > I had a similar sort of crash with 2.2.5 trying to update it to current. > I thought it was memory too, but reseating that had no effect. > Then I noticed that the CPU fan had come unstuck (it doesn't have a clip > like it probably should). After putting the fan back, the system has > run reliably since. So as a long shot, is there enough air flow to > keep the processor "cool"? 8-) The processor has a heat sink, and sits right near the front case fan. Plus, I've had the case open since I started messing around with the SIMMs, so I think there's enough air flow. Thanks though. > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 08:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09660 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garbo.lodgenet.com (garbo.lodgenet.com [204.124.122.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09642 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:12:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erich@lodgenet.com) Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [10.0.122.30]) by garbo.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA19415; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:11:06 -0600 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13367; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:12:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802261612.KAA13367@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:00:00 +0100." <199802261300.OAA13677@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:12:06 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy, A couple weeks ago I did some rather gross hacks locally here to get around some similar problems.. I wanted a MFS root with NFS swap, via boot rom. I ended up calling nfs_moutroot() from mfs_mountroot() or something like that, all buggered up with an MFS_NETBOOT option... Pretty hackish, but it works and I haven't gotten a chance to clean it up yet :( Is that of any interest? Do you have any ideas on a cleaner way to accomplish this... Or is this irrelevant to your question? ;-) Thanks, Eric Luigi Rizzo writes: >Hi, > >i think we have a chicken-egg problem with bootpc_init. > >the code in autoconf decides what to mount as root depending on various >things including nfs_diskless_valid > >nfs_diskless_valid is set to non-zero value by either the boot rom, >or by bootpc_init() (or by a config option BOOTP_NFSROOT, but that's >very annoying). > >Unfortunately bootpc_init() is only called by nfs_mountroot(), which is a >bit too late since the decision has already been taken not to call >nfs_mountroot() ! > >Could we move the call to bootpc_init() earlier, e.g. in configure() >(file autoconf.c) ? > >the function is passed a pointer to the nfs_diskless structure, and one >which is curproc ... > >Any idea before i just test this ? > > cheers > luigi >-----------------------------+-------------------------------------- >Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione >email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa >tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) >fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ >_____________________________|______________________________________ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Eric L. Hernes erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com http://rrnet.com/~erich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 08:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12671 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12596 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Message-Id: <199802261638.IAA12596@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 17450 invoked from network); 26 Feb 1998 08:39:22 -0000 Received: from ins17.tama-ap3.dti.ne.jp (HELO chiota.signet.or.jp) (203.181.67.17) by wafu.netgate.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 1998 08:39:22 -0000 Received: from chiota.signet.or.jp (localhost.signet.or.jp [127.0.0.1]) by chiota.signet.or.jp (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA03535; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:36:36 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Shigio Yamaguchi Subject: Re: modification of bsd.prog.mk for global. In-reply-to: Message from Eivind Eklund of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:50:33 +0100." <19980225135033.52962@follo.net> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:36:34 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 07:31:49PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > > So, if you want to keep 'src' directory read-only, following modification > > would be useful I think. > > _Please_ submit changes as diffs. If you do, I'll run them through a > buildworld and commit them (provided they don't break the build). > > Eivind. I have done it. Thank you! diff -c -r -N org/bsd.dep.mk new/bsd.dep.mk *** org/bsd.dep.mk Fri Feb 27 01:12:27 1998 --- new/bsd.dep.mk Fri Feb 27 01:17:19 1998 *************** *** 81,98 **** .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} .endif .endif .if !target(cleandepend) cleandepend: _SUBDIR .if defined(SRCS) ! rm -f ${DEPENDFILE} ${.CURDIR}/GRTAGS ${.CURDIR}/GSYMS ${.CURDIR}/GTAGS .if defined(HTML) ! rm -rf ${.CURDIR}/HTML .endif .endif .endif --- 81,98 ---- .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} .endif .endif .if !target(cleandepend) cleandepend: _SUBDIR .if defined(SRCS) ! rm -f ${DEPENDFILE} ${.OBJDIR}/GRTAGS ${.OBJDIR}/GSYMS ${.OBJDIR}/GTAGS .if defined(HTML) ! rm -rf ${.OBJDIR}/HTML .endif .endif .endif diff -c -r -N org/bsd.prog.mk new/bsd.prog.mk *** org/bsd.prog.mk Fri Feb 27 01:14:24 1998 --- new/bsd.prog.mk Fri Feb 27 01:18:24 1998 *************** *** 132,140 **** .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR .if defined(PROG) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} .endif .endif .endif --- 132,140 ---- .if !target(tags) tags: ${SRCS} _SUBDIR .if defined(PROG) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} .endif .endif .endif diff -c -r -N org/bsd.subdir.mk new/bsd.subdir.mk *** org/bsd.subdir.mk Fri Feb 27 01:14:54 1998 --- new/bsd.subdir.mk Fri Feb 27 01:19:37 1998 *************** *** 67,75 **** .if !target(tags) .if defined(TAGS) tags: ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} .endif .else tags: _SUBDIRUSE --- 67,75 ---- .if !target(tags) .if defined(TAGS) tags: ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && gtags ${GTAGSFLAGS} ${.OBJDIR} .if defined(HTML) ! @cd ${.CURDIR} && htags ${HTAGSFLAGS} -d ${.OBJDIR} ${.OBJDIR} .endif .else tags: _SUBDIRUSE *************** *** 79,87 **** .if !defined(cleandepend) cleandepend: _SUBDIRUSE .if defined(TAGS) ! @rm -f ${.CURDIR}/GTAGS ${.CURDIR}/GRTAGS .if defined(HTML) ! @rm -rf ${.CURDIR}/HTML .endif .endif .endif --- 79,87 ---- .if !defined(cleandepend) cleandepend: _SUBDIRUSE .if defined(TAGS) ! @rm -f ${.OBJDIR}/GTAGS ${.OBJDIR}/GRTAGS ${.OBJDIR}/GSYMS .if defined(HTML) ! @rm -rf ${.OBJDIR}/HTML .endif .endif .endif diff -c -r -N org/sys.mk new/sys.mk *** org/sys.mk Fri Feb 27 01:23:37 1998 --- new/sys.mk Fri Feb 27 01:22:44 1998 *************** *** 109,115 **** .endif # For tags rule. ! GTAGSFLAGS= HTAGSFLAGS= .if defined(%POSIX) --- 109,115 ---- .endif # For tags rule. ! GTAGSFLAGS= -o HTAGSFLAGS= .if defined(%POSIX) -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 08:45:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14140 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:45:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by mail.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18195; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:44:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:38:12 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD42AB.049D4B20.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'Eivind Eklund'" , Anatoly Vorobey , "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: New utilities: factor(1) and wid(1)? Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:38:09 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, February 25, 1998 5:29 PM, Anatoly Vorobey [SMTP:mellon@pobox.com] wrote: > You, Max Euston, were spotted writing this on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 04:41:11PM -0500: > > > when I should have tried: > > > > $ man factor > > > > Didn't expect to find it in 'games' ??? - That is not in my PATH=. > > That's history for you, I guess. > Does anyone know why this is in games? Shouldn't it be factor(1)? On Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:34 AM, Eivind Eklund [SMTP:eivind@yes.no] wrote: > On Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 12:28:46AM +0200, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > > It's time for to rewrite them both to use a more modern method > > of factoring, I guess. It's been some 2500 years or so; ole' good > > Eratosthenes could use some rest :) > > If somebody need a pure prime-generator, I've got one lying around > somewhere. A full sieve, no pre-computed tables. Not top-notch for > really large sieving, but OK for <32 bits at least (and could AFAIR > scale beyond that; I think I did it as a 2-layer sieve to be able to > scale to infinity. Still won't be the fastest method for factoring, > though.) If you can find this, please send me a copy. It's been _many_ years since I did any _real_ math, so if you would like me to use a faster method, I may need some clues (I will have _no_ problem optimizing an algorithm to C, but may not see if there is a better way mathamatically) (I might be over-stating my lack of experience somewhat). :) Max ----- Max Euston Sysadm, Programmer, etc... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 09:28:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20054 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20038 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19038; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA27084; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:28:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:28:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199802261728.KAA27084@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know > does freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport > 40 dual? I have a Fireport 40 in my box that works well running 2.2.5-STABLE. (I'm unsure if it's a dual, since I don't know what that is. Mine is a Wide controller, if that helps.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 09:57:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23571 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23553 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:57:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@Venus.mcs.net) Received: from Venus.mcs.net (jrs@Venus.mcs.net [192.160.127.92]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA19758; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:57:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (jrs@localhost) by Venus.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA04991; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:57:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:57:08 -0600 (CST) From: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II To: Nate Williams cc: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802261728.KAA27084@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know > > does freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport > > 40 dual? > > I have a Fireport 40 in my box that works well running 2.2.5-STABLE. > (I'm unsure if it's a dual, since I don't know what that is. Mine is a > Wide controller, if that helps.) The dual version is their scsi card that can do both ultra scsi and ultra wide scsi off of the same card. By the way did you right your own device driver? http://www.diamondmm.com/products/current/fireport40dual.cfm > Nate JOHN ********************************* * M C S N E T * * Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II * * jrs@mcs.net * ********************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 09:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA24062 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA12148 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:04:15 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA26529; Thu, 26 Feb 98 12:58:51 EST Message-Id: <34F5ADDC.1411@njcc.com> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:01:00 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Snob Art Genre Cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not so fast there, I built an Alpha system the other week and the CPU ran DARN hot, I asked the vendor and I casually mentioned that it should not be a problem because "The cover was off the whole time" - he said I should never run my system for any length of time with the cover off, because the air is not flowing, it is stagnant over the CPU. I suspect that even though you have a fan next to the CPU, the heat is not being pulled away from the processor by the PS fan as it would if the case were closed, you simply have the fan blowing air onto the CPU and hopefully "pushing" the hot air away. I would not point my finger at a heat issue right away, but I would not dismiss it so quickly either (BTW, after I closed the case the Alpha system ran fine for 72 hours straight, with the case open it started to fail after about 8 hours or so... Just my .02 worth, Ken khansen@njcc.com Snob Art Genre wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, John Birrell wrote: > > > I had a similar sort of crash with 2.2.5 trying to update it to current. > > I thought it was memory too, but reseating that had no effect. > > Then I noticed that the CPU fan had come unstuck (it doesn't have a clip > > like it probably should). After putting the fan back, the system has > > run reliably since. So as a long shot, is there enough air flow to > > keep the processor "cool"? 8-) > > The processor has a heat sink, and sits right near the front case fan. > Plus, I've had the case open since I started messing around with the > SIMMs, so I think there's enough air flow. > > Thanks though. > > > -- > > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org > > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > > > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 10:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25167 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19308; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:02:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA27404; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:02:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:02:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II Cc: Nate Williams , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: References: <199802261728.KAA27084@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know > > > does freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport > > > 40 dual? > > > > I have a Fireport 40 in my box that works well running 2.2.5-STABLE. > > (I'm unsure if it's a dual, since I don't know what that is. Mine is a > > Wide controller, if that helps.) > > The dual version is their scsi card that can do both ultra scsi and > ultra wide scsi off of the same card. By the way did you right your own > device driver? Nope, Stefan Esser wrote all of the NCR drivers, and if I may say so myself, I've only one *ONE* problem (and it turned out to be in another part of the system that triggered the 'error') in the 2.5 years I've owned them, while the Adaptec people have weekly problems. The advantage of having access to the programming documentation has been obvious to me. (This is not to say that the Adaptec stuff isn't good, but for me the NCR has provided me *much* better bang for the buck with almost *zero* problems.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 10:10:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:10:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26178 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (john@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA20566; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:09:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA27094; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:09:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know > > > > does freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport > > > > 40 dual? > > > > > > I have a Fireport 40 in my box that works well running 2.2.5-STABLE. > > > (I'm unsure if it's a dual, since I don't know what that is. Mine is a > > > Wide controller, if that helps.) > > > > The dual version is their scsi card that can do both ultra scsi and > > ultra wide scsi off of the same card. By the way did you right your own > > device driver? > > > Nope, Stefan Esser wrote all of the NCR drivers, and if I may say so > myself, I've only one *ONE* problem (and it turned out to be in another > part of the system that triggered the 'error') in the 2.5 years I've > owned them, while the Adaptec people have weekly problems. The > advantage of having access to the programming documentation has been > obvious to me. > > (This is not to say that the Adaptec stuff isn't good, but for me the > NCR has provided me *much* better bang for the buck with almost *zero* > problems.) > Nate Thanks for the info. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:20:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04945 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04900 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04310; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:00:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:00:52 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II wrote: > > > I was reading a few articles about scsi devices and i wanted to know does > freebsd support Diamond Multimedia's Fireport 40 or the Fireport 40 dual? > Are there any better scsi devices you support. > It should support the Fireport 40 just fine, but I don't know what the Dual one is based on. If it is just two NCR 53c875 chips on one card, it should work just fine. I use a Tekram DC-390F which is basically the same card, and it works great. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:43:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07740 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA13264; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:43:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA13325; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:43:31 -0600 (CST) To: "Alfred Perlstein" Cc: Subject: Re: so how goes java? References: <02f901bd424a$33dd5bc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 26 Feb 1998 13:43:31 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Alfred Perlstein"'s message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:05:04 -0500" Message-ID: <87u39mrw2k.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 46 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Alfred Perlstein" writes: > >> >They are not pre-emptive. > >> > >> (figures since until recently the SUN version was also co-operative) > >> one of my first things (besides fixing this problem) is to look into > native > >> threads, co-operative multitasking is an oxymoron. > >> i also plan on having several snapshots of 3.0 compiled versions of the > >> port. i'll inform the porting team when my NDA is all set and good. > > > >Do not confuse call conversion threading with Yield-based threading. > > > >Though call conversion threading is non-preemptive, one thread will > >not be blocked simply because another thread has made a blocking > >call. This is the point of call conversion. > > > >Kernel threading buys you SMP scalability (assuming there is ever > >code changes checked in to ensure thread-CPU affinity), and a much > >higher context switch overhead. > > ummm I think you just caused my brain to hemorrhage... :) > but let me try to rephrase that just to make sure i understand. > > if we have 2 threads busy looping, for instance just printing "i'm thread A" > and "i'm thread B", whichever thread starts first will not allow the other > thread to execute, correct? > > however if one thread tries to do a disk access or something that could > possibly block like a socket operation, the other thread will be allowed to > start executing? > > ok, so what do I need to do to get a situation where the threads would > alternate printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B" when they are just busy > looping? I'm assuming you're still talking about java... if so, then the o'reilly java threads book covers many of these issues rather effectively... setting up a high-priority scheduler thread, as nate suggested, is covered in there. in fact, you might find such examples from the book at the ora website. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:43:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07874 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07760; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27648 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:43:29 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01351; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:58:45 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802261858.TAA01351@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Feb 25, 98 03:28:49 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:58:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, tom@sdf.com, scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Simon Shapiro wrote... > > On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > > ... > > > Who will write the CFS ? ;-) (cluster file system) > > Shhhh... Are you trying to spoil ALL the fun? :-) So it seems.... %-) But about fun: maybe I should start hunting for Memory Channel hardware? Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:44:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07916 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07803 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27631 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:43:26 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01193; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:38:38 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802261838.TAA01193@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <34F5ADDC.1411@njcc.com> from Ken Hansen at "Feb 26, 98 01:01:00 pm" To: khansen@njcc.com Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:38:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: benedict@echonyc.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Ken Hansen wrote... > Not so fast there, I built an Alpha system the other week and the CPU > ran DARN hot, I asked the vendor and I casually mentioned that it should not > be a problem because "The cover was off the whole time" - he said I > should never run my system for any length of time with the cover off, because > the air is not flowing, it is stagnant over the CPU. > > I suspect that even though you have a fan next to the CPU, the heat is > not being pulled away from the processor by the PS fan as it would if the > case were closed, you simply have the fan blowing air onto the CPU and > hopefully "pushing" the hot air away. It is not only the CPU you want cooled, also the power regulator close to it. On my Alpha not cooling the regulator enough has 'interesting' results on stability. Intel chips of course also need regulators these days so keep an eye on them. 'A system is only as good as it's cooling' Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:44:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:44:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07921 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27623 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:43:25 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01303; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:53:43 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802261853.TAA01303@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Feb 25, 98 07:16:55 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:53:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Simon Shapiro wrote... > > On 26-Feb-98 Jay Nelson wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > >> > >>On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > >> ... > >> > >>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things > >>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another > >>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > >> > >>Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. > > > > Fantastic. And journaled file systems, too? Great news. Please keep us > > posted. Are you using any of the MOSIX work? > > JFS is someone else's bag. He/She is on this list. Again, patience is the > key here. AltaVista here we come ;-) What shall we call it: "Chuck's Vista" ? _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:44:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07748 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27639 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:43:28 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01344; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:57:19 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802261857.TAA01344@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Feb 25, 98 03:31:23 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:57:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Simon Shapiro wrote... > > On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > ... > > > Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things > > like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another > > kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. > > Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. Next step: a volume manager? _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 11:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10998 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:51:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10871 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05442 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:50:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199802261838.TAA01193@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > It is not only the CPU you want cooled, also the power regulator close to it. > On my Alpha not cooling the regulator enough has 'interesting' results > on stability. Intel chips of course also need regulators these days so keep > an eye on them. Due to dual-voltage chips, right? The system I'm using is a pre-MMX box, a 100 MHz vanilla Pentium. > 'A system is only as good as it's cooling' > > Wilko Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 12:27:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18029 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:27:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18022 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA26355; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:25:26 -0800 (PST) To: Wilko Bulte cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:53:42 +0100." <199802261853.TAA01303@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:25:26 -0800 Message-ID: <26352.888524726@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > AltaVista here we come ;-) What shall we call it: "Chuck's Vista" ? Not unless you want Kirk to come after you with a machine gun. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:01:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23505 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23493 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA28717; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd028715; Thu Feb 26 13:00:56 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id NAA12975; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199802262100.NAA12975@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <34F57CBA.2D4D@njcc.com> from Ken Hansen at "Feb 26, 98 09:31:22 am" To: khansen@njcc.com Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:00:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za, karl@mcs.net, mike@smith.net.au, dg@root.com, freebsd@isvara.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was able to get 3 NetGear FA-310TX cards (DEC 21140a) mentioned below > for just under $100 (incl. shipping!) from www.cmpexpress.com - no > connection, just a customer. > > I think the price was $31.XX each and $4.00 S/H. Intel EtherExpress Pro/100+ OEM $59 at www.centralcomputer.com Netgear FA-310TX $29.95 at Frys in the S.F. Bay Area. > > Ken > khansen@njcc.com > > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > I use NetGear's fast ethernet (Digital's 21140a) if I am not mistaken > > they may be selling at Fry's (Computer Store), Palo Alto, Ca. for > > $29 , I bought mine at $39 a couple of months ago. > > > > For my two boxes over here , I just connected with a "null" twisted pair > > cable so no hub. Kept my old 10mb cards to access the net and to avoid > > buying a fast ethernet hub. > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:32:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29048 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00533 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:32:38 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03197; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:26:43 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802262126.WAA03197@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Feb 26, 98 02:50:32 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:26:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Snob Art Genre wrote... > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > It is not only the CPU you want cooled, also the power regulator close to it. > > On my Alpha not cooling the regulator enough has 'interesting' results > > on stability. Intel chips of course also need regulators these days so keep > > an eye on them. > > Due to dual-voltage chips, right? The system I'm using is a pre-MMX box, Yep. > a 100 MHz vanilla Pentium. OK, that's different. _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:33:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:33:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29116 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00541 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:32:39 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03257; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:31:54 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199802262131.WAA03257@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:31:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote... > > AltaVista here we come ;-) What shall we call it: "Chuck's Vista" ? > > Not unless you want Kirk to come after you with a machine gun. :-) I would think a 3 tooted fork would be more appropriate... As in: man 2 fork FORK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual NAME fork - weapon wielded by Kirk to fight inappropriate use of the name 'Chuck' for the BSDaemon. ;-) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:33:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:33:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28855 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (modem00.masternet.it [194.184.65.254]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01001 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:35:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F5DFB6.2399392A@giovannelli.it> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:33:42 +0100 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: rc5des Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A lot , if not everyone, rc5des (static, the dynamic package is 84 bytes :-) I am running often exit with signal 11 (both on 2.2.5-stable and 3.0-current). Any other persons experience such behaviours ? Back to the old rc564 ? -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:41:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:41:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01421 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:41:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node03.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.3]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA06053 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:41:03 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980226193814.00a54a80@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:38:55 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I couldn't uncompress the file FreEasy0_3_0.exe under Win NT 4 prompt window. NT claims that program is too big to fit in memory. At 11:58 AM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/berend/FreEasy.html > >Now at version 0.3. > >Please see the web page for a full description and installation >instructions. > > Jordan > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 13:45:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02001 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node03.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.3]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA06134 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:44:11 -0200 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980226194150.00927cd0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:42:04 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: telnet root login Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ????????????? I had to set - unfortunately - my network connection as secure to have telnet access. Now I think this is something for hackers. > >On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Capriotti wrote: > >> $ id >> uid=1003(bala1) gid=0(wheel) groups=0(wheel) >> $ su >> su: you are not in the correct group to su root. > >[Happened to me last month as well] > >su(1) doesn't look at your gid, it looks at /etc/group. If you >don't have the entry for bala1 within wheel in /etc/group, it won't >allow you to su to root. >-- >Jonathan Chen | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 14:09:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07425 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:09:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20622; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:08:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA19294; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:08:28 -0600 Message-ID: <19980226160827.38546@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:08:27 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Wilko Bulte Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <199802262131.WAA03257@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199802262131.WAA03257@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Feb 02, 1998 at 10:31:54PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Feb 02, 1998 at 10:31:54PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote... > > > AltaVista here we come ;-) What shall we call it: "Chuck's Vista" ? > > > > Not unless you want Kirk to come after you with a machine gun. :-) > > I would think a 3 tooted fork would be more appropriate... > > As in: man 2 fork > > FORK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual > > NAME > fork - weapon wielded by Kirk to fight inappropriate use of the name > 'Chuck' for the BSDaemon. Uh, don't you mean "man 3 fork"? :-) -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 14:26:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10424 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:26:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10411 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 27486 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Feb 1998 22:26:20 +0000 (GMT) To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:44:42 -0800" References: <199802260244.SAA21962@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:26:20 +0100 Message-ID: <27484.888531980@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums automagically > > in hardware! > > Oh great. This card was designed *explicitly* for Windows systems, > where they think it's funny for the network adapter driver to know > enough about the protocol layer to manage junk like this. Probably not. More likely it was simply meant to give lower CPU usage, given the right modifications to the TCP/IP stack. If you check the new Gigabit Ethernet cards that are becoming available, you'll find *most* of them will do IP checksum on-chip. I've included below a recent Usenet article by Craig Partridge which explains some of the things that can be done to speed up BSD TCP/IP. You'll note that he explicitly mentions hardware checksums. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: craigp@world.std.com (Craig Partridge) Subject: Re: BSD TCP/IP stack code; performance improvement Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:28:15 GMT chuckbo@garnet.vnd.tek.com (Chuck Bolz) writes: >I'm getting ready to "tune" a TCP/IP stack based on 4.3BSD with >numerous 4.4BSD enhancements. I've been testing an echo server >at 100 Mbps, and preliminary profiling indicates the following >breakdown: 50% of CPU time in socket code, 40% in TCP/IP code, >and the remainder in the driver/interrupt stack. This is a lot >of code to analyze! This note gave me an excuse to sit down and write up a little note about known improvements to TCP/UDP/IP performance that have not yet worked their way into the standard 4.3/4.4 BSD sources. This note takes the form of a list of known improvements. Comments on other known improvements are appreciated -- this list is off the top of my head and could use enhancement. Some of these improvements exist freely (for instance, Steve Pink and I have got the sosend() and soreceive() and combined copy/cksum stuff for x386 processor and ought to get them to the FreeBSD and NetBSD folks). Craig Improvement: Replace sosend() Performance Benefit: 5% (see Pink&Partridge 1994) + enables other improvements Sosend() is this horrendously complex bit of code that tries to figure out how the lower layer wants its data laid out and then tries to put the data being sent in that form. In almost every case, the lower layer protocol could do the job faster and more simply (faster because it knows its requirements, more simply because it doesn't have to test for a whole bunch of cases, and thus code is more compact and has less branches). Done wrong, this change requires rewriting the send code for all protocols. Done simply, you just add an pr_sosend entry in the protosw structure and set it to sosend() unless there's a protocol specific routine. NOTE: This change is a pre-requisite for some other performance improvements (such as combined checksum/copy) because sosend() is where data is copied from user space into the kernel. Improvement: Replace soreceive() Performance Benefit: Minor (< 1%) but enables benefits below You can simply soreceive() very slightly by making it protocol specific like sosend(). More important, you enable a bunch of improvements in memory handling. Improvement: Reduce data copies Performance Benefit: Large (10%-25% -- results vary see Partridge&Pink 94) Currently TCP touches its data 3 times, UDP 2 times, on transmission, and similar numbers on receipt. In both cases, the count should be 1 (or 0, with hardware assist). There are two necessary steps here both easy. The easy one is to create a kernel copy routine (typically a version of uiomove() and copyin()/copyout()) that computes the Internet checksum of the data being copied, while doing the copy. Then use this routine in the protocol specific sosend() and soreceive() to move data in and out of the kernel. This change reduces UDP to one copy and TCP to two copies. To reduce TCP to one copy, you need to make sure the device driver doesn't delete the TCP data when a segment is transmitted, so you can point to the same data when retransmitting. To get to zero copies, you need hardware checksumming (done when DMAing to the interface). NOTE: Many of these benefits can also be achieved using Copy-On-Write -- you mark application buffers COW and then don't have to copy them. You still however, need to checksum them, so unless there's hardware checksum support, you still scan the data once. Improvement: Delete IP header checksum call to in_cksum() Performance Benefit: 2% to 8% (depends on packet size and processor - P&P 94) The IP output code calls in_cksum() to checksum the IP header checksum. Since the header checksum requires only 14 instructions (without any conditionals) to compute, this is silly (you'll burn several times 14 instructions calling in_cksum(), plus harm code locality). Better to do the checksum in ip_output. Ditto on input in ipintr() Improvement: Delete IP interrupt Performance Benefit: never measured, estimated to be 20%+ On the inbound side, the networking code goes through two software interrupts, one for IP processing and one for socket processing. Given the high cost of doing the interrupt, the IP processing interrupt should go away -- IP and partial TCP processing should just be done at board interrupt level, then a single interrupt to the socket layer should be made to complete TCP processing. Van Jacobson has done preliminary work here but never gotten it to the point of distribution. Improvement: Get A Better Compiler Performance Benefit: 10% plus There's evidence that compilers that can relocate code segments and adjust branches based on actual profiles (so called Profiler Based Optimization) can easily give 10% performance improvements. Various folks have also done fancier reworking of binary layouts by hand and gotten even better results. (Work at Arizona and UC I believe) Improvement: Fix PCB lookup Performance Benefit: 5% or more Two issues here. First, the PCB caches don't work well, especially for UDP. Second, in_pcblookup() is a linear search -- it should be a hash table (see McKenney's paper in SIGCOMM '90). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 15:41:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23587; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28608; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:40:18 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id XAA01339; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:30:09 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:30:09 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: Nate Williams , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser Subject: Re: do you support Mail-Followup-To: Nate Williams , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser References: <199802261728.KAA27084@mt.sri.com> <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 11:02:43AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-02-26 11:02 -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > The dual version is their scsi card that can do both ultra scsi and > > ultra wide scsi off of the same card. By the way did you right your own > > device driver? > Nope, Stefan Esser wrote all of the NCR drivers, and if I may say so Well, just a minor correction: The driver was developed by Wolfgang Stanglmeier and me on Wolfgang's system, but I'm the left over maintainer :) During the last two years, there have been quite a number of contributions from Gerard Roudier, who had ported the NCR driver to Linux and is providing support for it for users of that OS ... Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 15:41:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24173 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:41:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23936 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:41:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 27884 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Feb 1998 23:41:04 +0000 (GMT) To: dlittell@onramp.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:27:09 -0600" References: <34F4C4ED.31DFF4F5@onramp.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:41:04 +0100 Message-ID: <27882.888536464@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Sorry, it's not that simple. On a token ring network, tokens can get lost. > > Yes, this happens in real life. So any "guarantee" that you give for token > > ring networks is based on statistics. > > Yeah, it really is that simple. Token loss recovery time has an upper > bound Yes. So does the waiting time for Ethernet with maximum number of collisions (367 ms). Think about what happens: In *both* cases higher protocol layers will most likely see a timeout and perform a retransmit in software. Thus, either they are both deterministic (time to transmit has an upper bound), or neither of them are. > and token ring-based networks degrade gracefully, ensuring some > non-zero throughput even at 100% offered load. I believe there are > meltdown scenarios in Ethernet that guarantee you'll never get anything > out. The "meltdown scenarios" are as far as I know based on infinite number of stations, which is specifically disallowed by the Ethernet rules. There is a *reason* for the limit of maximum 1024 stations per collision domain - it is precisely to avoid such a meltdown. The "meltdown scenarios" have been debunked both by theory and practical measurements by now. There is no reason to drag them out again. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 15:51:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26577 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26549 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13800; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:50:35 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Gianmarco Giovannelli cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rc5des In-Reply-To: <34F5DFB6.2399392A@giovannelli.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > Any other persons experience such behaviours ? > [crashing problems etc snipped] > Back to the old rc564 ? This occurred on the switch over after the finish of DES. I had multiple clients running (both Linux and FreeBSD) and both were crashing nearly constantly. I had the 383 build running okay yesterday for a few hours and then it crashed hard. I have now gone back to the old rc564 client. Distributed.net is aware of the problem and is supposed to be building new clients. ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ When you wake up in the morning With the blues in your fingertips Get out that ol' guitar and play It's the only way to scratch that itch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 16:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29626 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:06:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29050 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01474; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:33:31 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA06488; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:32:06 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980227103205.13186@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:32:05 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Wilko Bulte , shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com Subject: Volume manager (was: SCSI Bus redundancy...) References: <199802261857.TAA01344@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802261857.TAA01344@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 07:57:19PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 February 1998 at 19:57:19 +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Simon Shapiro wrote... >> >> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> ... >> >>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another >>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >> >> Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. > > Next step: a volume manager? I have that already: === root@razzia (/dev/ttyp0) /freebie/home/vinum/userland 50 -> mount /dev/wd0a on / (NFS exported, local, writes: sync 0 async 0) /dev/wd0s1e on /Usr (local, read-only, writes: sync 0 async 0) procfs on /proc (local, writes: sync 0 async 0) freebie:/ on /freebie (writes: sync 0 async 0) freebie:/home on /freebie/home (writes: sync 0 async 0) freebie:/usr on /freebie/usr (writes: sync 0 async 0) freebie:/src on /src (writes: sync 0 async 0) freebie:/S on /S (writes: sync 0 async 0) /dev/vinum/vol1 on /v1 (local, writes: sync 0 async 0) /dev/vinum/vol3 on /v3 (local, writes: sync 0 async 0) === root@razzia (/dev/ttyp0) /freebie/home/vinum/userland 51 -> v l vol1 Volume 0: vol1 Size: 104857600 State: up Open count: 1 Flags: raw 1 plexes Read policy: round robin Reads: 67 Bytes read: 3265536 Writes: 11 Bytes written: 22016 === root@razzia (/dev/ttyp0) /freebie/home/vinum/userland 52 -> v l -r vol3 Volume 2: vol3 Size: 157286400 State: up Open count: 1 Flags: 2 plexes Read policy: round robin Reads: 1194 Bytes read: 9498624 Writes: 348826 Bytes written: 2806551552 Plex 2: vol3.p0 State: up Organization: concat Total size: 157286400 bytes (0x9600000) 2 subdisks Part of volume vol3 Reads: 737 Bytes read: 5656576 Writes: 182844 Bytes written: 1452173824 Subdisk 2: vol3.p0.s0 Length 104857600 State: up Plex vol3.p0 Offset 0 Reads: 442 Bytes read: 3801088 Writes: 165982 Bytes written: 1354377728 Drive 0: drive2 Device: /dev/sd1h State: up Last error: none Size 601052160 (573 MB) Used: 209850880 (200 MB), available 391201280 (373 MB) Created on razzia.lemis.com at Thu Feb 26 17:51:52 1998 Config last updated Thu Feb 26 17:52:07 1998 Reads: 442 Bytes read: 3801088 Writes: 165983 Bytes written: 1354378240 Subdisk 3: vol3.p0.s1 Length 52428800 State: up Plex vol3.p0 Offset 204800 Reads: 295 Bytes read: 1855488 Writes: 16862 Bytes written: 97796096 Drive 1: drive4 Device: /dev/sd3h State: up Last error: none Size 601052160 (573 MB) Used: 262279680 (250 MB), available 338772480 (323 MB) Created on razzia.lemis.com at Thu Feb 26 17:51:52 1998 Config last updated Thu Feb 26 17:52:07 1998 Reads: 819 Bytes read: 8963072 Writes: 182855 Bytes written: 1452195840 Plex 3: vol3.p1 State: up Organization: concat Total size: 104857600 bytes (0x6400000) 1 subdisks Part of volume vol3 Reads: 457 Bytes read: 3842048 Writes: 165982 Bytes written: 1354377728 Subdisk 4: vol3.p1.s0 Length 104857600 State: up Plex vol3.p1 Offset 0 Reads: 457 Bytes read: 3842048 Writes: 165982 Bytes written: 1354377728 Drive 1: drive4 Device: /dev/sd3h State: up Last error: none Size 601052160 (573 MB) Used: 262279680 (250 MB), available 338772480 (323 MB) Created on razzia.lemis.com at Thu Feb 26 17:51:52 1998 Config last updated Thu Feb 26 17:52:07 1998 Reads: 819 Bytes read: 8963072 Writes: 182855 Bytes written: 1452195840 Any similarities with the Veritas Volume Manager are merely intentional. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 17:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14963 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (horizon3.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.39.27]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA14414 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:25:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F65CCB.41C67EA6@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:27:23 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Reply-To: kaleb@opengroup.org Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971225-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS, but no thread-safe functions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm looking at a 3.0-971225-SNAP machine, and has _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS defined, but libc_r does not have any of the thread-safe functions, e.g. getpwnam_r, gethostbyname_r, strtok_r, etc. I don't have my pthreads spec here at home, but as I recall, _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is specified as meaning that the *_r functions are available. I don't believe it means anything WRT to the general thread-safeness of the rest of libc (or libc_r), which by definition should be inherently thread-safe (on the off chance that that's what you thought it meant.) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 17:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17358 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17332 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:41:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id BAA01347; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:40:18 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:40:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Niall Smart cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cshort - speaking of new utilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > > int > > foobar(a) > > int a; > > REQUIRE(a > 0); > > ENSURE(retval < 100); > > Ugh, do you really use this precondition stuff? Sure. It beats writing specs and they're kept up to date. If you were really pedantic about it every time you looked at a piece of code without preconditions you would say, "Anything goes". This code is telling me that I can give it whatever I want as arguments. I do get lazy on the obvious stuff, but when things get complex you'd be amazed at how simple pre-conditions help. The pre-conditions are usually far more helpful than the post-conditions, but at least letting your consumers know very clearly what your code is supposed to guarantee is definitely a plus. Preprocess them away and you can actually reduce the amount of code you might otherwise have had. The reduction in code reduces complexity and saves your brain from hurting too much. Take a look at the code in, "Programming with Threads" by Steve Kleiman, Devang Shah, and Bart Smaalders for examples of how assertions and invariants are used. Writing complex reentrant code can really boggle your brain. Regards, Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 17:45:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18559 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:45:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18512 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id BAA01374; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:43:57 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:43:56 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Nate Williams cc: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > Nope, Stefan Esser wrote all of the NCR drivers, and if I may say so > myself, I've only one *ONE* problem (and it turned out to be in another > part of the system that triggered the 'error') in the 2.5 years I've > owned them, while the Adaptec people have weekly problems. The > advantage of having access to the programming documentation has been > obvious to me. Now that Adaptec owns Symbios I wonder if the document availability will change. > (This is not to say that the Adaptec stuff isn't good, but for me the > NCR has provided me *much* better bang for the buck with almost *zero* > problems.) I use both and I haven't had problems with either. If you get Adaptec, then get the 2940 series except for the AU which is a piece of crap. Regards, Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 17:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:54:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21673 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:54:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id BAA01438; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:53:56 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:53:56 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Volume manager (was: SCSI Bus redundancy...) In-Reply-To: <19980227103205.13186@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > I have that already: > [snip] > Any similarities with the Veritas Volume Manager are merely > intentional. Did you have to change anything in ffs to get this working? Regards, Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 17:59:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23435 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01579; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:29:33 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA07169; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:29:33 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980227122933.08225@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:29:33 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Michael Hancock Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Volume manager (was: SCSI Bus redundancy...) References: <19980227103205.13186@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 10:53:56AM +0900 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 10:53:56 +0900, Michael Hancock wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> I have that already: >> > > [snip] > >> Any similarities with the Veritas Volume Manager are merely >> intentional. > > Did you have to change anything in ffs to get this working? No. I may find I have to at some point, though. I'm still testing the driver. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:20:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28490 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:20:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19563 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "crab.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd019556; Thu Feb 26 18:17:33 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id SAA19935 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:14:37 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199802270214.SAA19935@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-Reply-To: <199802261612.KAA13367@jake.lodgenet.com> from "Eric L. Hernes" at "Feb 26, 98 10:12:06 am" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:14:37 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric L. Hernes writes: | | Howdy, | | A couple weeks ago I did some rather gross hacks locally here to get | around some similar problems.. I wanted a MFS root with NFS swap, | via boot rom. I ended up calling nfs_moutroot() from | mfs_mountroot() or something like that, all buggered up with an | MFS_NETBOOT option... Pretty hackish, but it works and I haven't | gotten a chance to clean it up yet :( | | Is that of any interest? Do you have any ideas on a cleaner way | to accomplish this... Or is this irrelevant to your question? ;-) I've done something similar since I'm using the bootp stuff & mfs root. I added a SYSINIT to do the bootp call if nfs is not being used. I also added code to specify which adapter to send the bootp requests on in case of multiple controllers. What I've been stumped on is trying to do a bootp request on all interfaces until success. This might be the wrong thing to do. BTW I hacked up the Linux etherboot code to be able to tftp the kernel and boot FreeBSD again. This way I can do netboots over Intel 10/100B cards. However now I'm running into a problem with machines locking up with a non-trival compile. I hope to get this code cleaned up since I've been gross hacking stuff to get things to do what I need. BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29600 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id NAA10868; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:32:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802270232.NAA10868@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS, but no thread-safe functions In-Reply-To: <34F65CCB.41C67EA6@opengroup.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at "Feb 27, 98 01:27:23 am" To: kaleb@opengroup.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:32:09 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > I'm looking at a 3.0-971225-SNAP machine, and has > _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS defined, but libc_r does not have any of > the thread-safe functions, e.g. getpwnam_r, gethostbyname_r, strtok_r, > etc. The standard says that if _POSIX_THREADS is defined, then _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS shall also be defined. [2.9.3] And then, for each function, it says "Either the implementation shall support the foobar() function as described above or the foobar() function shall not be provided". The standard doesn't prescribe how the feature test is supposed to be done. 8-( But we really should have these functions in libc. Generally, though, this involves a complete re-write of each of the existing functions in terms of the re-entrant versions. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:32:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29692 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22818; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:31:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980226183143.51935@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:31:43 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot References: <199802261612.KAA13367@jake.lodgenet.com> <199802270214.SAA19935@crab.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199802270214.SAA19935@crab.whistle.com>; from Doug Ambrisko on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 06:14:37PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: > BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? in your config file: options "DEFINENAME=string value" should do it... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:49:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-111.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01978 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:48:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA17760; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:50:29 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Ken Hansen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 keeps crashing . . . please advise. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <34F5ADDC.1411@njcc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Ken Hansen wrote: > Not so fast there, I built an Alpha system the other week and the CPU > ran DARN hot, I asked the vendor and I casually mentioned that it should > not be a problem because "The cover was off the whole time" - he said I > should never run my system for any length of time with the cover off, > because the air is not flowing, it is stagnant over the CPU. This reminds me (kinda) of the people running a K6 at some horribly fast speed (like 400Mhz). They had some kinda liquid or freon cooling system. I think I saw this from a link on Tom's Hardware.. > I suspect that even though you have a fan next to the CPU, the heat is > not being pulled away from the processor by the PS fan as it would if > the case were closed, you simply have the fan blowing air onto the CPU > and hopefully "pushing" the hot air away. > > I would not point my finger at a heat issue right away, but I would not > dismiss it so quickly either (BTW, after I closed the case the Alpha > system ran fine for 72 hours straight, with the case open it started to > fail after about 8 hours or so... I ran my old 486 for quite a while w/ out the case since one of the cooling fans died. However, I had a nice 10 inch desk fan blowing on it the whole time ;-) Boy could that thing sure roast a few IDE hard drives. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:52:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02517 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02493 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:52:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01632; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:21:49 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA07604; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:21:49 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980227132149.21105@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:21:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Volume manager (was: SCSI Bus redundancy...) References: <19980227122933.08225@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew N. Dodd on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 09:35:05PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 February 1998 at 21:35:05 -0500, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> No. I may find I have to at some point, though. I'm still testing >> the driver. > > Any chance you can snapshot your work and let the rest of us beat on it a > bit? Definitely a chance. It's not quite ready at the moment, and there's also a problem with commercial interest in the RAID-5 part. I'll reply to you privately with more information. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 18:54:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02996 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA20440; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "crab.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd020436; Thu Feb 26 18:52:29 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id SAA20060; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:49:42 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199802270249.SAA20060@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-Reply-To: <19980226183143.51935@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Feb 26, 98 06:31:43 pm" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:49:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: ambrisko@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney writes: | Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: | > BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? | | in your config file: | options "DEFINENAME=string value" | | should do it... Don't think so for example: options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" Then in a c-snippet: strcmp(string,BOOTP_WIRED_TO) Will change into strcmp(string,fxp0) which will fail to compile want strcmp(string,"fxp0") so for now I stick in a #define BOOTP_WIRED_TO "fxp0" in the code. I need the quotes passed through or made to happen someway. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 19:00:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04685 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:00:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04671 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07610; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:35:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:35:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Greg Lehey cc: Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Volume manager (was: SCSI Bus redundancy...) In-Reply-To: <19980227122933.08225@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > No. I may find I have to at some point, though. I'm still testing > the driver. Any chance you can snapshot your work and let the rest of us beat on it a bit? /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 19:29:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07702 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07696 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:29:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22963; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:29:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980226192930.34778@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:29:30 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Doug Ambrisko Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot References: <19980226183143.51935@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199802270249.SAA20060@crab.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199802270249.SAA20060@crab.whistle.com>; from Doug Ambrisko on Thu, Feb 26, 1998 at 06:49:41PM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: > John-Mark Gurney writes: > | Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: > | > BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? > | > | in your config file: > | options "DEFINENAME=string value" > | > | should do it... > > > Don't think so for example: > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" > Then in a c-snippet: > strcmp(string,BOOTP_WIRED_TO) > Will change into > strcmp(string,fxp0) > which will fail to compile want > strcmp(string,"fxp0") > so for now I stick in a > #define BOOTP_WIRED_TO "fxp0" > in the code. > > I need the quotes passed through or made to happen someway. hmm... try: options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=#fxp0" this is gcc specific as far as preprocessors go IIRC... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 19:43:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA08945 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8GPm-0005BZ-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:24:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:24:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Nate Williams cc: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > Nope, Stefan Esser wrote all of the NCR drivers, and if I may say so > myself, I've only one *ONE* problem (and it turned out to be in another > part of the system that triggered the 'error') in the 2.5 years I've > owned them, while the Adaptec people have weekly problems. The > advantage of having access to the programming documentation has been > obvious to me. Weekly problems is a bit of an exaggeration Programming info is available for Adaptec cards, just like the NCR cards. Perhaps maybe 3 years ago that was case, but not for a long time. The Adaptec cards do more things on-board so the driver is more complex. Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. It has known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are looking ahead to CAM. The CAMified ahc driver is reputed to very solid (wcarchive.cdrom.com uses it), but is only for serious hackers right now. > Nate Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 19:46:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:46:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA09624 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8GTc-0005Bf-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:28:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:28:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Michael Hancock cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Michael Hancock wrote: > Now that Adaptec owns Symbios I wonder if the document availability will > change. I doubt it, as Adaptec makes documents available too. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 20:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frontier.stpp.soft.net (frontier.frontier.stpp.soft.net [202.141.13.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15236 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:46:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mapte@frontier-soft.com) Received: from 206.102.1.165 by frontier.stpp.soft.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id FV01S9R7; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:05:14 +0530 Received: by TORRENT with Microsoft Mail id <01BD4366.57C47560@TORRENT>; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:59:07 +0530 Message-ID: <01BD4366.57C47560@TORRENT> From: Manish Apte To: "'FreeBSD-Hackers'" Subject: FW: ISO/OSI stack support on FreeBSD Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:58:10 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA15241 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----Original Message----- From: Manish Apte [SMTP:mapte@frontier-soft.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 6:16 PM To: 'FreeBSDQuestions' Subject: ISO/OSI stack support on FreeBSD Hi, I am currently using FreeBSD v2.2.2 on i386. While understanding the OS build procedure I realized that FreeBSD has OSI support but it is not shipped with the distribution/sources because of 'lack of interest' (I found this mentioned in the file "/usr/src/sys/i386/conf/LINT"). I am interested in getting the ISO/OSI related sources (/usr/src/sys/netiso directory I presume, possibly with other files) so that I could build a kernel with OSI stack support in it. Is it possible to get the missing OSI stack related files ? If yes how ? Regards Manish mapte@frontier-soft.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17183 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26219; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:03:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270503.VAA26219@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Tom cc: Nate Williams , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:24:44 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:03:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. It has > known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are looking ahead > to CAM. The CAMified ahc driver is reputed to very solid > (wcarchive.cdrom.com uses it), but is only for serious hackers right now. I would be surprised if wcarchive is using the CAM driver set; it's a 2.2 family machine, and CAM is very much 3.0 code. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17220 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17192 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26238; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:04:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270504.VAA26238@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Doug Ambrisko cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:49:41 PST." <199802270249.SAA20060@crab.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:04:07 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > John-Mark Gurney writes: > | Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: > | > BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? > | > | in your config file: > | options "DEFINENAME=string value" > | > | should do it... > > > Don't think so for example: > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=\"fxp0\"" You may need to triple the backslashes, it's been a while since I tried this. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:08:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17452 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17439 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA23373; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:08:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA01402; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:08:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:08:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199802270508.WAA01402@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Tom Cc: Nate Williams , Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: References: <199802261802.LAA27404@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Programming info is available for Adaptec cards, just like the NCR > cards. Perhaps maybe 3 years ago that was case, but not for a long time. > The Adaptec cards do more things on-board so the driver is more complex. My NCR board performs within 10% (sometimes faster in certain benchmarks) of the Adaptec driver, and hasn't been broken in 3 years. Tell me that the stability/usability of not having it broken *ever* in 3 years isn't worth it. > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. The NCR has rarely been touched as well. > It has known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are > looking ahead to CAM. Yet another good reason not to use the Adaptec boards. Looking to the future is all well and good, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to get stuck with brokeness all in the name of progress, especially when other options exist. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:10:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17847 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:10:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17675 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA17589; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017587; Thu Feb 26 21:09:18 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA28488; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:18 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802270509.VAA28488@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-Reply-To: <199802270249.SAA20060@crab.whistle.com> from Doug Ambrisko at "Feb 26, 98 06:49:41 pm" To: ambrisko@whistle.com (Doug Ambrisko) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Ambrisko writes: > Don't think so for example: > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" > Then in a c-snippet: > strcmp(string,BOOTP_WIRED_TO) > Will change into > strcmp(string,fxp0) > which will fail to compile want > strcmp(string,"fxp0") > so for now I stick in a > #define BOOTP_WIRED_TO "fxp0" > in the code. #define Q(x) #x Then Q(asdf) returns "asdf" (as I remember). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:12:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18765 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:12:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18670 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:12:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26266; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270509.VAA26266@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sthaug@nethelp.no cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:26:20 +0100." <27484.888531980@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:09:51 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums automagically > > > in hardware! > > > > Oh great. This card was designed *explicitly* for Windows systems, > > where they think it's funny for the network adapter driver to know > > enough about the protocol layer to manage junk like this. > > Probably not. More likely it was simply meant to give lower CPU usage, > given the right modifications to the TCP/IP stack. If you check the new > Gigabit Ethernet cards that are becoming available, you'll find *most* > of them will do IP checksum on-chip. It's odd then that these cards should be surfacing after NDIS 5 made checksum calculations a feature of the NIC driver, no? > I've included below a recent Usenet article by Craig Partridge which > explains some of the things that can be done to speed up BSD TCP/IP. > You'll note that he explicitly mentions hardware checksums. Sure. However I think the point here is that you can only do hardware checksums efficiently if you collapse the protocol stack to the point where code has access to both the hardware and then TCP layer. That's expedient, and fast, but potentially *very* ugly. It also raises the issue of fragment reassembly. Should you take it into your head to actually implement any of these features, I'm sure we'd be happy to test & integrate them. Note that the stuff about hardware checksumming is a bit of a handwave; it'd be nice if things were that simple, but I can't help thinking that the COW overhead would be worse than the checksum cost for, eg. a telnet session's outbound traffic. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:16:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20036 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:16:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA17691; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017683; Thu Feb 26 21:15:32 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA28538; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:15:32 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802270515.VAA28538@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: so how goes java? In-Reply-To: <87u39mrw2k.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> from stephen farrell at "Feb 26, 98 01:43:31 pm" To: stephen@farrell.org (stephen farrell) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:15:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG stephen farrell writes: > "Alfred Perlstein" writes: > > ok, so what do I need to do to get a situation where the threads would > > alternate printing "i'm thread A" and "i'm thread B" when they are just busy > > looping? > > I'm assuming you're still talking about java... if so, then the > o'reilly java threads book covers many of these issues rather > effectively... setting up a high-priority scheduler thread, as nate > suggested, is covered in there. in fact, you might find such examples > from the book at the ora website. FYI- freebsd-java@freebsd.org is more likely to have the right experts listening. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 21:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:19:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20596 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03251; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:17:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199802270517.AAA03251@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802270503.VAA26219@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 26, 98 09:03:00 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:17:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: tom@sdf.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jrs@Mcs.Net, john@Mcs.Net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. It has > > known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are looking ahead > > to CAM. The CAMified ahc driver is reputed to very solid > > (wcarchive.cdrom.com uses it), but is only for serious hackers right now. > > I would be surprised if wcarchive is using the CAM driver set; > it's a 2.2 family machine, and CAM is very much 3.0 code. > It is, but is also using CAM. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 22:00:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:00:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26860 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24388 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "crab.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd024386; Thu Feb 26 21:52:29 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id VAA08864 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199802270544.VAA08864@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot In-Reply-To: <199802270504.VAA26238@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 26, 98 09:04:07 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:44:46 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: | > John-Mark Gurney writes: | > | Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: | > | > BTW anyone know how to pass a string in via a #define in config? | > | | > | in your config file: | > | options "DEFINENAME=string value" | > | | > | should do it... | > | > | > Don't think so for example: | > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" | | options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=\"fxp0\"" | | You may need to triple the backslashes, it's been a while since I tried | this. With single, double or triple backslashes I get a syntax error when I run config. Archie was close. Looking in the cpp info page I found this example > #define xstr(s) str(s) > #define str(s) #s > #define foo 4 > xstr (foo) > This expands into `"4"', not `"foo"'. Doing just > #define str(s) #s > #define foo 4 > str (foo) > expands to `"foo"'. So now I have: options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" and the c-snippet from nfs/bootp_subr.c /* * Find a network interface. */ for (ifp = TAILQ_FIRST(&ifnet); ifp != 0; ifp = TAILQ_NEXT(ifp,if_link)) #ifdef BOOTP_WIRED_TO #define xstr(s) str(s) #define str(s) #s { sprintf(ireq.ifr_name, "%s%d", ifp->if_name,ifp->if_unit); if (strcmp(ireq.ifr_name,xstr(BOOTP_WIRED_TO)) == 0) break; } #else if ((ifp->if_flags & (IFF_LOOPBACK|IFF_POINTOPOINT)) == 0) break; #endif and this works! Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 22:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03088 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from conrad@apple.com) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA35078 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:25:11 -0800 Received: from [17.202.43.185] (wa.apple.com [17.202.43.185]) by scv3.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07862 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:25:10 -0800 X-Sender: conrad@mail.apple.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1107.888263934@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:25:09 -0800 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Conrad Minshall Subject: lockd client side Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD's rpc.lockd seems to only implements the server side. Has anyone enhanced it so FreeBSD clients can get locks? Pointers to any other freeware lockd sources are welcome. I've already checked {net,open}BSD. -- Conrad Minshall mailto:conrad@apple.com If "conrad@apple.com" doesn't work, try using one of my alternates: "rad@acm.org", "conradm@computer.org", or "conrad@technologist.com" Picon viewable at: http://facesaver.usenix.org/h/48/4704.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 22:36:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:36:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.dyn.ml.org (host77-59.airnet.net [209.64.77.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04476 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@ninbox.dyn.ml.org) Received: from ninbox.dyn.ml.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03510; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:36:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F65ED1.22DB9DC8@ninbox.dyn.ml.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:36:01 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Reply-To: kris@airnet.net Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rc5des References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Taylor wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > > Any other persons experience such behaviours ? > > [crashing problems etc snipped] > This occurred on the switch over after the finish of DES. I had multiple > clients running (both Linux and FreeBSD) and both were crashing nearly > constantly. I had the 383 build running okay yesterday for a few hours > and then it crashed hard. > > I have now gone back to the old rc564 client. Distributed.net is aware of > the problem and is supposed to be building new clients. What a bummer. I came home to rc5des (segmentation fault). Darn... What if I had found the winning key and the program couldn't handle itself? I messed with the setting and got it to grab every block it could (DES). It stopped crunching DES blocks after 34. Said it found too many matches. I also couldn't get the client to flush after going to RC5-64. When I switched to DES, and it switched back, no problem :-/ -- Kris Kirby ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 22:44:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05853 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05845 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11382; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd011366; Thu Feb 26 23:44:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17554; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:44:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802270644.XAA17554@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lockd client side To: conrad@apple.com (Conrad Minshall) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:44:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Conrad Minshall" at Feb 26, 98 10:25:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD's rpc.lockd seems to only implements the server side. Has anyone > enhanced it so FreeBSD clients can get locks? > > Pointers to any other freeware lockd sources are welcome. I've already > checked {net,open}BSD. The code goes in the NFS client FS implementation. I expect to implement this shortly, though I expect to implement the server code first. The client code has its own problems that have to be resolved before everything is happy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 23:01:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08244 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA08239 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:01:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8JWU-0005Ki-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:43:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Mike Smith cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802270503.VAA26219@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. It has > > known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are looking ahead > > to CAM. The CAMified ahc driver is reputed to very solid > > (wcarchive.cdrom.com uses it), but is only for serious hackers right now. > > I would be surprised if wcarchive is using the CAM driver set; > it's a 2.2 family machine, and CAM is very much 3.0 code. Then I'll consider you surprised then, because it is running CAM. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 23:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08902 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:07:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08895 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26692; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:03:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270703.XAA26692@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Tom cc: Mike Smith , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:43:42 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:03:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. It has > > > known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are looking ahead > > > to CAM. The CAMified ahc driver is reputed to very solid > > > (wcarchive.cdrom.com uses it), but is only for serious hackers right now. > > > > I would be surprised if wcarchive is using the CAM driver set; > > it's a 2.2 family machine, and CAM is very much 3.0 code. > > Then I'll consider you surprised then, because it is running CAM. I am surprised. 8) I wonder if the demon that did the backport would consider bundling it such that we could ship it as an optional extra? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 23:18:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10663 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8Jn7-0005LV-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:01:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Nate Williams cc: Johnathan Raymond Sconiers II , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802270508.WAA01402@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > Programming info is available for Adaptec cards, just like the NCR > > cards. Perhaps maybe 3 years ago that was case, but not for a long time. > > The Adaptec cards do more things on-board so the driver is more complex. > > My NCR board performs within 10% (sometimes faster in certain Possibly. The transaction overhead of the ahc is much lower than the ncr driver. The only way to see this is to use lots of simultaneous io to lots of drives. I'm not aware of any benchmark software that lets me test this easily. bonnie isn't much good for this. Also, if you want performance, skip both Adaptec and NCR and get a DPT PM334UW instead. I having _great_ success with a DPT PM334UW on a FreeBSD 2.2-stable system. > benchmarks) of the Adaptec driver, and hasn't been broken in 3 years. > Tell me that the stability/usability of not having it broken *ever* in 3 > years isn't worth it. I'm not to argue that, but this problem does not exist as result of not having programming specs. The Adaptec specs are available. Also, the ahc driver support Ultra months before the ncr driver. > > Also, the existing ahc driver is not being maintained anymore. > > The NCR has rarely been touched as well. Don't confuse maintenance with "touching". FreeBSD has many examples of code that is rotting, because of lack of attention. Be glad that someone is maintaining the ncr driver once and while. > > It has known bugs that no one will fix, because the SCSI people are > > looking ahead to CAM. > > Yet another good reason not to use the Adaptec boards. Looking to the > future is all well and good, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to > get stuck with brokeness all in the name of progress, especially when > other options exist. Yes, it is bad thing, but not because you get "stuck with brokeness", but because the brokeness existed at all. The ahc driver doesn't have to be "bad". Both existing ahc and ncr users are going to be stuck anyhow. The existing SCSI code is dead. Anything new will be CAM. This is hardest on new SCSI drivers, because they won't be brought in until CAM is brought in. There is a perfectly good DPT driver in the wings waiting for this, plus I believe a new AdvanSys driver too. > Nate Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 26 23:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11074 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:22:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8JqZ-0005Ld-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:04:39 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:04:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Mike Smith cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-Reply-To: <199802270703.XAA26692@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Then I'll consider you surprised then, because it is running CAM. > > I am surprised. 8) I wonder if the demon that did the backport would > consider bundling it such that we could ship it as an optional extra? Well, this was discussed on freebsd-scsi I believe... Justin and/or Dave G are working on making a patchkit for 2.2-stable I believe. There is is even talking including CAM in the 2.2 branch after 2.2.6. I suspect that would be done as a kernel option, because some drivers are not CAMified yet. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 00:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19937 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA19921 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA15312 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:13:37 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802270713.IAA15312@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: FIOASYNC ... To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:13:36 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG anyone knows how should i handle FIOASYNC within the audio device driver ? Following Bruce's comments about FIONBIO which should be handled at vfs rather than device driver, i wonder if the same applies to FIOASYNC. second thing how do i behave when a read (or a write) is issued which would block because there is no sufficient data in the buffer (or not enough buffering for the write) ? Should i return with a short count or with an error ? cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 01:40:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25287 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:40:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25232 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:40:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12323; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:37:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270937.BAA12323@implode.root.com> To: Tom cc: Mike Smith , Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: do you support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:04:39 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:37:38 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I am surprised. 8) I wonder if the demon that did the backport would >> consider bundling it such that we could ship it as an optional extra? > > Well, this was discussed on freebsd-scsi I believe... > > Justin and/or Dave G are working on making a patchkit for 2.2-stable I >believe. There is is even talking including CAM in the 2.2 branch after >2.2.6. I suspect that would be done as a kernel option, because some >drivers are not CAMified yet. ...nasty rumors. :-) The port of CAM to 2.2.x that Justin did was sort of a favor to me; I was having an intermittant problem with 'buffer already done' panics that appeared to be a buffer mismanagement in the (MI/MD) SCSI layer, and we thought it would be interesting if the problem went away by using CAM (it did!). I did ask Justin at the time if it would be possible to make both the old and new SCSI system available as compile-time options, but this is difficult due to serious namespace conflicts and incompatible software interfaces. I don't think a patchkit of somesort is out of the question, however...but you'll have to do some arm twisting (Justin's arm, not mine! :-)). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 01:46:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:46:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA26686 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:45:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: (qmail 23125 invoked from network); 27 Feb 1998 09:45:58 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail-01.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 1998 09:45:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Another apparent NFS related 2.2.5 crash. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc... IdlePTD 9bd000 current pcb at 1fbb88 panic: vinvalbuf: flush failed #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) where #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 #1 0xf0118193 in panic (fmt=0xf0137710 "vinvalbuf: flush failed") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:390 #2 0xf0137944 in vinvalbuf (vp=0xf3ff0d00, flags=1, cred=0xf3efad80, p=0xf38cb800, slpflag=0, slptimeo=0) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:545 #3 0xf015ee20 in nfs_vinvalbuf (vp=0xf3ff0d00, flags=1, cred=0xf3efad80, p=0xf38cb800, intrflg=1) at ../../nfs/nfs_bio.c:799 #4 0xf015e452 in nfs_write (ap=0xefbffee8) at ../../nfs/nfs_bio.c:538 #5 0xf013c697 in vn_write (fp=0xf3afe9c0, uio=0xefbfff34, cred=0xf3efad80) at vnode_if.h:283 #6 0xf011fc23 in write (p=0xf38cb800, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) at ../../kern/sys_generic.c:263 #7 0xf01d01c7 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = -272695257, tf_edi = 385062, tf_esi = 384800, tf_ebp = -272639104, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 19, tf_edx = 210, tf_ecx = 264036, tf_eax = 4, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 7, tf_eip = 537542593, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 658, tf_esp = -272639160, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:914 #8 0x200a3fc1 in ?? () #9 0x1663b in ?? () #10 0x85b8 in ?? () #11 0x8643 in ?? () #12 0xb2c4 in ?? () ---Type to continue, or q to quit---q Any ideas on how to fix? This is one of our web servers, taking NFS V2 UDP to a Netapp. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 03:02:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04163 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04151 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id NAA25419 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:09:13 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 25417; Fri Feb 27 13:09:03 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199802271106.NAA10700@cdsec.com> Subject: Temporary freezes on a Compaq To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:06:39 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all A friend of mine has asked me if I can help him solve a problem he is experiencing with FreeBSD 2.2.2 running on a Compaq with 32Mb RAM (although his kernel isn't patched so only 16Mb is seen), two 3C509 Ethernet cards, and an IDE HDD. The machine is acting as a gateway between two networks. Apparently every so often (quite frequently) all activity on the machine freezes for 3-4 seconds and then resumes. Or rather, all network activity; no one is actually working on the console so I don't know whether this applies to non-network activity as well. I asked him to check the load, free memory, etc, to try to determine whether it is simply caused by bus-mastering disk activity; however, it seems the load is not very high and there is no obvious cause related to disk I/O. Has anyone experienced this? Is it perhaps related to the 3C509 driver? Any suggestions would be appreciated. TIA Graham To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 03:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04992 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:10:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27481; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:08:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802271108.DAA27481@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Graham Wheeler cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Temporary freezes on a Compaq In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Feb 1998 13:06:39 +0200." <199802271106.NAA10700@cdsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:08:47 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Apparently every so often (quite frequently) all activity on the machine > freezes for 3-4 seconds and then resumes. Or rather, all network activity; > no one is actually working on the console so I don't know whether this > applies to non-network activity as well. I asked him to check the load, > free memory, etc, to try to determine whether it is simply caused by > bus-mastering disk activity; however, it seems the load is not very high > and there is no obvious cause related to disk I/O. > > Has anyone experienced this? Is it perhaps related to the 3C509 driver? > Any suggestions would be appreciated. This sounds like a symptom of a known feature of the 3c509 with FreeBSD, where when an interrupt is lost, all network traffic stops until the timeout handler catches the situation. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 03:25:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06082 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (horizon1.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.39.25]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA11033 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:25:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F6E95F.41C67EA6@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:27:11 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Reply-To: kaleb@opengroup.org Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971225-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: symbols in libc_r not in libc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Consider building an MT-safe library that might get used by both threaded and non-threaded programs -- in this case libX11. On a 3.0-971225-SNAP system, when I build Xlib thread-safe I use -D_REENTRANT and -D_THREAD_SAFE, and all references to errno are converted to *__error(). No problem there. Now when I link a non-threaded program, e.g. xterm, to the mt-safe Xlib, when I try to run it I get unresolved externals for ___error. What that tells me is that libc (not libc_r) needs a #pragma weak __error so that when I link non-threaded programs against libX11, they'll work, and when I link a threaded program with libX11 and libc_r, it'll get the right version of __error. And no, I don't want to require that all non-threaded programs link with libc_r, nor do I want to link libX11 with libc_r and thereby cause all programs that link with it to be implicitly linked with libc_r. I only want the extra overhead (if there is any) when a program is explicitly linked with libc_r. (Hmmh. I subscribed to hackers a ways back, but it doesn't seem to have taken. C'est la vie.) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 05:00:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16766 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16717 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:59:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id NAA25113; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:59:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f.gud.siemens.co.at) by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA237444241; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:57:21 +0100 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA24819; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:57:56 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:57:56 +0100 From: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199802271257.NAA24819@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kaleb@opengroup.org Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: +K8Fa5BDBJh04G3SOV/bXg== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On a 3.0-971225-SNAP system, when I build Xlib thread-safe I use > -D_REENTRANT and -D_THREAD_SAFE, and all references to errno are > converted to *__error(). No problem there. > > Now when I link a non-threaded program, e.g. xterm, to the mt-safe Xlib, > when I try to run it I get unresolved externals for ___error. > > What that tells me is that libc (not libc_r) needs a #pragma weak > __error so that when I link non-threaded programs against libX11, > they'll work, and when I link a threaded program with libX11 and libc_r, > it'll get the right version of __error. > As far as I can understand weak symbols, you can add your own version of __error() in Xlib, as a weak symbol. That way, the programs that do not use libc_r get the __error() from Xlib, and the ones that do from libc_r (I take it that the libc_r __error() is a strong symbol). This should give you exactly what you need exactly where you need it. The Xlib implementation of __error() should naturally just return the address of errno. Don't forget to undefine errno when you implement the Xlib __error(). Hope I didn't miss anything. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 05:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:37:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20524 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (horizon5.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.39.29]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA17610 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:37:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F70843.2781E494@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:38:59 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Reply-To: kaleb@opengroup.org Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971225-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc References: <199802271257.NAA24819@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG marino.ladavac@siemens.at wrote: > > > > > On a 3.0-971225-SNAP system, when I build Xlib thread-safe I use > > -D_REENTRANT and -D_THREAD_SAFE, and all references to errno are > > converted to *__error(). No problem there. > > > > Now when I link a non-threaded program, e.g. xterm, to the mt-safe Xlib, > > when I try to run it I get unresolved externals for ___error. > > > > What that tells me is that libc (not libc_r) needs a #pragma weak > > __error so that when I link non-threaded programs against libX11, > > they'll work, and when I link a threaded program with libX11 and libc_r, > > it'll get the right version of __error. > > > > As far as I can understand weak symbols, you can add your own version of > __error() in Xlib, as a weak symbol. In my not so humble opinion, that's a hack. > That way, the programs that do not > use libc_r get the __error() from Xlib, and the ones that do from libc_r > (I take it that the libc_r __error() is a strong symbol). This should > give you exactly what you need exactly where you need it. > > The Xlib implementation of __error() should naturally just return the > address of errno. Don't forget to undefine errno when you implement > the Xlib __error(). > > Hope I didn't miss anything. Well, just that Xlib isn't in the business of providing libc functions or putting a band-aid over a broken libc. The weak __error() function belongs in libc. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 06:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25506 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id PAA28839; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:17:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f.gud.siemens.co.at) by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA245268900; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:15:01 +0100 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA25144; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:15:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:15:35 +0100 From: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199802271415.PAA25144@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kaleb@opengroup.org Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: 0nZvlOgXKzpc4bpETYxnOw== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 27 14:41:50 MET 1998 > Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:38:59 -0500 > From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Well, just that Xlib isn't in the business of providing libc functions > or putting a band-aid over a broken libc. > > The weak __error() function belongs in libc. Well, I am obviously of a different opinion--I'll try to give you my rationale for it. libc exports a well-known interface to its clients. errno is one of these interfaces, and if the clients want to use just libc, this is all they get. Now, you are building a client (Xlib) which should be usable both as a reentrant and non-reentrant library. There is a slight dichotomy here. You really need an interface the libc does not need to provide (nor is required to do so). Since your Xlib in this particular case is misusing the libc, it has to live with the interfaces that the libc provides. Therefore, it needs to provide its own interfaces made from the building blocks provided by libc. The problem that we both have with this is that your Xlib is a performance hack. The pure solution would require the existence of Xlib and Xlib_r. Let me state immediately that I am all for such an Xlib--having two of them would be one too many. I hope you understand my view. I'm pretty sure I did not miss anything this time :) /Marino > > -- > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 06:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:51:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28581 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA20126 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:51:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F6D322.59D2@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:52:18 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc References: <199802271415.PAA25144@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG marino.ladavac@siemens.at wrote: > > > > Well, just that Xlib isn't in the business of providing libc functions > > or putting a band-aid over a broken libc. > > > > The weak __error() function belongs in libc. > > Well, I am obviously of a different opinion--I'll try to give you my > rationale for it. > > libc exports a well-known interface to its clients. errno is one of these > interfaces, and if the clients want to use just libc, this is all they get. And your headers are creating a new interface in libc/libc_r, one that Xlib doesn't want to know about and should never need to know about. > Now, you are building a client (Xlib) which should be usable both as a > reentrant and non-reentrant library. There is a slight dichotomy here. > You really need an interface the libc does not need to provide (nor is > required to do so). Maybe not required by virtue of any standard. > Since your Xlib in this particular case is misusing > the libc, No, it's not misusing libc. Why do you say that? > it has to live with the interfaces that the libc provides. The ones it knows about. Xlib is written to POSIX. If your headers change things. If your headers create non-POSIX interfaces from POSIX usage, then your libc needs to accomodate that. > Therefore, it needs to provide its own interfaces made from the building > blocks provided by libc. Nope. As reluctant as I am to use this argument, I'll use it anyway. No other system with threads requires me to hack Xlib as you suggest in order to make this work. Does that help? It's easier for me to just say "FreeBSD's libc is too badly broken for me to consider supporting pthreads in X on FreeBSD." > > The problem that we both have with this is that your Xlib is a performance > hack. That's your opinion. I don't share it. > The pure solution would require the existence of Xlib and Xlib_r. > Let me state immediately that I am all for such an Xlib--having two of them > would be one too many. ??? > > I hope you understand my view. No, I don't. But that's okay. I just won't ever support pthreads in the official Open Group Sample Implementation of X11 on FreeBSD. I hope you understand my view. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 07:46:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:46:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05383 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA16290; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Gianmarco Giovannelli cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rc5des In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, > earlier I said : > I have now gone back to the old rc564 client. Distributed.net is aware of > the problem and is supposed to be building new clients. Hmm.... I just noticed my home machine is still running the 393 build flawlessly. Weird. The only difference between the home and work machine is home is a P166, work PPro200 and the PPro has been updated w/ a make world once (very recent). -shrug- ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ When you wake up in the morning With the blues in your fingertips Get out that ol' guitar and play It's the only way to scratch that itch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 07:53:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06602 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06582 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:53:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA23172; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:52:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:52:52 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet root login In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980226194150.00927cd0@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why don't you use ssh instead? Ssh is a secure replacement for rsh, it does encryption, and if you set it up right you need never send your password over the wire, not even encrypted. On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Capriotti wrote: > ????????????? > > I had to set - unfortunately - my network connection as secure to have > telnet access. > > Now I think this is something for hackers. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 08:11:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10226 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [194.237.142.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10218 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seb@erix.ericsson.se) Received: from super.du.etx.ericsson.se (root@super.du.etx.ericsson.se [150.236.14.16]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-1.12) with ESMTP id RAA24496; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:11:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from scotch.du.etx.ericsson.se (seb@scotch.du.etx.ericsson.se [150.236.14.76]) by super.du.etx.ericsson.se (8.9.0.Alpha1/8.9.0.Alpha1/erix-1.4) with ESMTP id RAA12009; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:11:16 +0100 (MET) Received: by scotch.du.etx.ericsson.se (8.8.8/client-1.4) id RAA07659; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:11:15 +0100 (CET) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: stefan@promo.de (Stefan Bethke) Subject: Re: Graceful shutdown by single keypress? References: <561614.3096881785@stefan.promo.de> From: Sebastian Strollo Date: 27 Feb 1998 17:11:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: stefan@promo.de's message of 19 Feb 98 11:56:25 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 50 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG stefan@promo.de (Stefan Bethke) writes: > [He wants to have a system, for a trade show, that can switch itself off] > I'm looking > into an ATX system with APM support that can switch itself off. > > Instead, I'd like to tell the operators to press the suspend key on the > system, and wait for it to switch itself off. As I currently have no APM > system to test this on (I will get the system the next few days), I'm > interested in experiences with APM on desktop machines, and the feasibility > of my idea. Also, if someone has any recommendations on a specific pentium > mainboard, I'd be happy to hear them. Yes, I think this is the way to go. (I don't have any recommendations for specific mainboards, but I have the power off functionality working on my desktop DELL.) > [alternative solution involving serial port removed] > > It would be acceptable for me to hack the kernel to add any necessary APM > power-off command, if needed. If you are running -current I think you could just hack a bit in sys/i386/apm/apm.c, in the function apm_processevent() just change from: OPMEV_DEBUGMESSAGE(PMEV_USERSUSPENDREQ); apm_suspend(); break; to: OPMEV_DEBUGMESSAGE(PMEV_USERSUSPENDREQ); shutdown_nice(); break; Disclaimer: I haven't tested it :-) (If someone think it is a bad idea please speak up.) Hmm, maybe there is even an interrupt/APM interface for the power off key? In -current this should then also power down your system. If you are running -stable the system won't power off, just halt.But I have added the powerdown things from -current in my system and could send you the patches if you want them. (BTW, is this something we could put into -stable? I think it is pretty neat that the machine powers down when I halt it, and as I said I have the diffs for -current if anyone is interested.) Which makes me think about another thing, in sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c in -current, shouldn't the call to cpu_power_down() be preceded by a "if (howto & RB_POWEROFF)"? (Especially since the reboot utility have command line option that actually adds that flag.) -- Sebastian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 08:16:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA11434 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Fri Feb 27 11:09 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA13627 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:18:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: ambrisko@whistle.com, gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: a chicken-egg problem with bootp and nfs_mountroot Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:18:16 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: John-Mark Gurney[SMTP:gurney_j@efn.org] > > Doug Ambrisko scribbled this message on Feb 26: > > > > Don't think so for example: > > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" > > Then in a c-snippet: > > strcmp(string,BOOTP_WIRED_TO) > > Will change into > > strcmp(string,fxp0) > > which will fail to compile want > > strcmp(string,"fxp0") > > so for now I stick in a > > #define BOOTP_WIRED_TO "fxp0" > > in the code. > > > > I need the quotes passed through or made to happen someway. > > hmm... try: > options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=#fxp0" > > this is gcc specific as far as preprocessors go IIRC... > I guess, it will not help because gcc must allow use of # only in macro definitions. A working method (working with any ANSI C preprocessor) will be like this: options "BOOTP_WIRED_TO=fxp0" #define qw(x) #x strcmp(string,qw(BOOTP_WIRED_TO)); -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 08:38:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15110 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15042 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:37:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA01337 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:37:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F6EC08.F6@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:38:32 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS and *_r functions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Someone (who I can't cite because I inadvertantly deleted their email) said: POSIX 1003.1 2.9.3 says if _POSIX_THREADS is defined, then _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS must also be defined. It's true that that's what POSIX says, but it's a simplistic answer, and doesn't really address *everything* that POSIX says Table 2.10 in 2.9.3 says "...if _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is defined then the implementation supports the Thread Safe Functions option. Section 4.2.4.2 says: If _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is defined: The getlogin_r()... Section 4.7.2.2 says: If _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is defined: The ttyname_r()... Section 5.1.2.2 says: If _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is defined: The readdir_r()... Section 8.3.3.2 says: If _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS is defined: The strtok_r()... And so on for getpwnam_r, etc. That means that if you don't have the Thread Safe Functions, then you can't define _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS. (And therefore you can't define _POSIX_THREADS, which is sort of the reverse of the claim that if you define _POSIX_THREADS then you must define _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS.) -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 09:18:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22066 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22059 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de) Received: from salomon.mchp.siemens.de (salomon.siemens.de [139.23.33.13]) by david.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26926 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:17:30 +0100 (MET) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: andre.albsmeier@mchp.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (daemon@curry.mchp.siemens.de [146.180.31.23]) by salomon.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08581 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:17:29 +0100 (CET) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05233 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:17:30 +0100 (CET) From: Andre Albsmeier Message-Id: <199802271717.SAA00672@intern> Subject: 2.2.5-STABLE: is this a bug in umount? To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:17:27 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, let's assume the following (done as root): mount /dev/sd3c /mnt tar cf /mnt/bla.tar some_big_directory While the tar is running we do the following in another shell: umount /mnt If we see a "Device busy" error we just repeat the umount again and again. Suddenly the system freezes for about 10 seconds and reboots. During the bootstrap the following message appears: bali daemon.alert savecore: reboot after panic: vinvalbuf: dirty bufs Now my question is: Is this the expected behaviour from umount? If you ask me why I do such a silly thing, it's because I mount my portable disk drive with amd. Then I start a timeconsuming job on this drive (in my case a tar from the network). After the default timeout of 5 minutes the amd unmounts the fs and the system crashes. I can reproduce this if you tell me. All that happens on a FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE system. Is this a bug (so I will send in a PR) or a feature? Thanks, -Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 09:56:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26864 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay2.eunet.fr (relay2.eunet.fr [192.134.192.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA26814 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fla@laissus.fr) Received: from laissus.laissus.fr by relay2.eunet.fr (5.65c8d/96.05.03) via EUnet-France id AA27831; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:56:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from zebulon.laissus.fr by laissus.laissus.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.4/fla-2.1) id AA06652; Fri, 27 Feb 98 18:52:06 +0100 From: Francois LAISSUS Received: by zebulon.laissus.fr Message-Id: <199802271751.SAA00520@zebulon.laissus.fr> Subject: RE:crc error -- System halted In-Reply-To: <199802251904.LAA20211@hub.freebsd.org> from freebsd-hackers-digest at "Feb 25, 98 11:04:05 am" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:51:33 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG !Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:59:14 -0800 (PST) !From: Gennadiy Gulchin !Subject: crc error -- System halted ! !I'm trying to install FreeBSD 2.2.5 on: ! !Seagate Barracuda Ultra Wide SCSI (4G) !IDE CD-ROM Drive ! !and I receive !crc error ! -- System Halted ! !I've tried to install from CD/floppy and I get the same results. I've tried !to look for the error on www.freebsd.org -> nothing. ! !Any help would be appreciated ! !Gena Gulchin !gena@MCCP.com I've encounter the same trouble : a bank of ram was bad and not detected by bios. Try to change them... F. Laissus fla@laissus.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 10:12:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29450 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA22397; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022391; Fri Feb 27 10:11:46 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA00364; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:11:46 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802271811.KAA00364@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802270509.VAA26266@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 26, 98 09:09:51 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:11:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > > > One *great* bonus is it will do IP, TCP and UDP checksums automagically > > > > in hardware! > > > > > > Oh great. This card was designed *explicitly* for Windows systems, > > > where they think it's funny for the network adapter driver to know > > > enough about the protocol layer to manage junk like this. > > > > Probably not. More likely it was simply meant to give lower CPU usage, > > given the right modifications to the TCP/IP stack. If you check the new > > Gigabit Ethernet cards that are becoming available, you'll find *most* > > of them will do IP checksum on-chip. > > It's odd then that these cards should be surfacing after NDIS 5 made > checksum calculations a feature of the NIC driver, no? > > > I've included below a recent Usenet article by Craig Partridge which > > explains some of the things that can be done to speed up BSD TCP/IP. > > You'll note that he explicitly mentions hardware checksums. > > Sure. However I think the point here is that you can only do hardware > checksums efficiently if you collapse the protocol stack to the point > where code has access to both the hardware and then TCP layer. > > That's expedient, and fast, but potentially *very* ugly. It also > raises the issue of fragment reassembly. There's nothing wrong with taking stable, existing, working code and optimizing it for the common case. For example, you could do it with an internal mbuf flag M_IPSUM that would indicate that the hardware has already verified the checksum on the packet. Sure it's not pretty, but it's a lot cleaner than some other stuff I've seen in there.. (the kernel, that is :-) -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 11:18:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:18:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06255 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id GAA17326; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:19:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802271919.GAA17326@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS and *_r functions In-Reply-To: <34F6EC08.F6@opengroup.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at "Feb 27, 98 11:38:32 am" To: k.keithley@opengroup.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:19:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > That means that if you don't have the Thread Safe Functions, then you > can't define _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS. (And therefore you can't > define _POSIX_THREADS, which is sort of the reverse of the claim that if > you define _POSIX_THREADS then you must define > _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS.) Hmm, I've always read the "otherwise" case as making these functions optional, but now you've made me reread the clauses, I think I agree that _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS means these functions should be there. I think they should be in libc, not just libc_r. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 11:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06976 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA23178 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:21:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F7128B.106D@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:22:51 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS and *_r functions References: <199802271919.GAA17326@cimlogic.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell wrote: > > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > That means that if you don't have the Thread Safe Functions, then you > > can't define _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS. (And therefore you can't > > define _POSIX_THREADS, which is sort of the reverse of the claim that if > > you define _POSIX_THREADS then you must define > > _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS.) > > Hmm, I've always read the "otherwise" case as making these functions > optional, but now you've made me reread the clauses, I think I > agree that _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS means these functions should > be there. I think they should be in libc, not just libc_r. Yup, the rationale says they're "useful even for non-threaded programs" so you can have _POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS but not _POSIX_THREADS, to indicate that the functions exist. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 11:31:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10379 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id GAA17357; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:32:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802271932.GAA17357@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc In-Reply-To: <34F70843.2781E494@opengroup.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at "Feb 27, 98 01:38:59 pm" To: kaleb@opengroup.org Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:32:47 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > Well, just that Xlib isn't in the business of providing libc functions > or putting a band-aid over a broken libc. > > The weak __error() function belongs in libc. The cerror in libc needs to call __error() instead of just referencing the global "int errno". It does this when compiled into libc_r, but that won't support kernel threads (which will use libc + libpthread instead of libc_r). I'd like to change errno.h to define errno as *__error() all the time so that you don't have to do anthing special to compile a thread-aware library (like Xlib). I've been running with a complete 'make world' under -current with this errno implementation for some time. I guess I should ask for the go-ahead to commit this to -current. I'd like to see 3rd-party libraries (like Xlib) come thread-aware out-of-the-box. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 11:40:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13347 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA04080 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34F716BE.17D3@opengroup.org> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:40:46 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc References: <199802271932.GAA17357@cimlogic.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell wrote: > > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > Well, just that Xlib isn't in the business of providing libc functions > > or putting a band-aid over a broken libc. > > > > The weak __error() function belongs in libc. Another reason why the weak __error() belongs in libc, and not in Xlib is because ANSI/POSIX/ISO C reserves all identifiers that begin with an underscore (X used _X* before ANSI C annexed underscore as a prefix) so it's clear to me that __error() in Xlib would be an egregious hack. -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 11:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15871 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15864 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:49:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id GAA17429; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:50:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199802271950.GAA17429@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc In-Reply-To: <34F716BE.17D3@opengroup.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at "Feb 27, 98 02:40:46 pm" To: k.keithley@opengroup.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 06:50:52 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > Another reason why the weak __error() belongs in libc, and not in Xlib > is because ANSI/POSIX/ISO C reserves all identifiers that begin with an > underscore (X used _X* before ANSI C annexed underscore as a prefix) so > it's clear to me that __error() in Xlib would be an egregious hack. Xlib shouldn't have to know how an OS goes about providing a POSIX interface. __error() is internal and implementation dependent. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 12:29:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21632 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:29:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slug.EUnet.pt (sj3-p13.telepac.pt [194.65.177.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21436; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:26:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) Received: from localhost (jmg@localhost) by slug.EUnet.pt (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA00256; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:21:09 GMT (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) X-Authentication-Warning: slug.EUnet.pt: jmg owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:21:09 +0000 (WET) From: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt X-Sender: jmg@slug.EUnet.pt To: Andre Albsmeier cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: 2.2.5-STABLE: is this a bug in umount? In-Reply-To: <199802271717.SAA00672@intern> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1107280105-888610869=:251" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1107280105-888610869=:251 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi! I did a kernel debug on it and here is the log of the debug (I've included an attachment with the full log): (kgdb) down #9 0xf01318fc in unmount (p=0xf1509800, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) at ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:280 280 return (dounmount(mp, uap->flags, p)); (kgdb) list 275 * Don't allow unmount of the root filesystem 276 */ 277 if (mp->mnt_flag & MNT_ROOTFS) 278 return (EINVAL); 279 280 return (dounmount(mp, uap->flags, p)); 281 } 282 283 /* 284 * Do the actual file system unmount. (kgdb) exit The solution is to add an if before the return checking if there is activity in that partition. The way to do that I'll leave to the core team or someone with commit priviliges. Jorge -- \\ Nobody can be exactly like me. \\ Jorge Miguel Goncalves \\ Sometimes even I have trouble \\ \\ doing it. \\ j@bug.fe.up.pt \\ -- Talluulah Bankhead \\ On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > Hi, > > let's assume the following (done as root): > > mount /dev/sd3c /mnt > tar cf /mnt/bla.tar some_big_directory > > While the tar is running we do the following in another shell: > > umount /mnt > > If we see a "Device busy" error we just repeat the umount again and again. > Suddenly the system freezes for about 10 seconds and reboots. During the > bootstrap the following message appears: > > bali daemon.alert savecore: reboot after panic: vinvalbuf: dirty bufs > > > Now my question is: Is this the expected behaviour from umount? If you ask > me why I do such a silly thing, it's because I mount my portable disk drive > with amd. Then I start a timeconsuming job on this drive (in my case a tar > from the network). After the default timeout of 5 minutes the amd unmounts > the fs and the system crashes. I can reproduce this if you tell me. > > All that happens on a FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE system. > > Is this a bug (so I will send in a PR) or a feature? > > Thanks, > > -Andre > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > --0-1107280105-888610869=:251 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=log Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: U2NyaXB0IHN0YXJ0ZWQgb24gRnJpIEZlYiAyNyAyMDowMzo1MyAxOTk4DQpz bHVnIyBjZCAvc3lzL2NvbXBpbGUvU0xVRw0Kc2x1ZyMgZ2RiIC1rDQpHREIg aXMgZnJlZSBzb2Z0d2FyZSBhbmQgeW91IGFyZSB3ZWxjb21lIHRvIGRpc3Ry aWJ1dGUgY29waWVzIG9mIGl0DQogdW5kZXIgY2VydGFpbiBjb25kaXRpb25z OyB0eXBlICJzaG93IGNvcHlpbmciIHRvIHNlZSB0aGUgY29uZGl0aW9ucy4N ClRoZXJlIGlzIGFic29sdXRlbHkgbm8gd2FycmFudHkgZm9yIEdEQjsgdHlw ZSAic2hvdyB3YXJyYW50eSIgZm9yIGRldGFpbHMuDQpHREIgNC4xNiAoaTM4 Ni11bmtub3duLWZyZWVic2QpLCBDb3B5cmlnaHQgMTk5NiBGcmVlIFNvZnR3 YXJlIEZvdW5kYXRpb24sIEluYy4NCihrZ2RiKSBzeW1ib2wtZmlsZSBrZXJu 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hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03252 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02732; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd002680; Fri Feb 27 14:37:49 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24755; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:37:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802272137.OAA24755@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: symbols in libc_r not in libc To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:37:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kaleb@opengroup.org In-Reply-To: <199802271257.NAA24819@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> from "marino.ladavac@siemens.at" at Feb 27, 98 01:57:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > As far as I can understand weak symbols, you can add your own version of > __error() in Xlib, as a weak symbol. That way, the programs that do not > use libc_r get the __error() from Xlib, and the ones that do from libc_r > (I take it that the libc_r __error() is a strong symbol). This should > give you exactly what you need exactly where you need it. > > The Xlib implementation of __error() should naturally just return the > address of errno. Don't forget to undefine errno when you implement > the Xlib __error(). > > Hope I didn't miss anything. How about "FreeBSD headers should not be variant based on the manifest constant 'THREAD_SAFE'"? The libc is the correct place to put libc_r compatabilities... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 13:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:42:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03672 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (modem00.masternet.it [194.184.65.254]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00942; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:32:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F72296.F74BA4F7@giovannelli.it> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:31:18 +0100 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rc5des References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Taylor wrote: > > Hi all, > > > earlier I said : > > > I have now gone back to the old rc564 client. Distributed.net is aware of > > the problem and is supposed to be building new clients. > > Hmm.... I just noticed my home machine is still running the 393 build > flawlessly. Weird. The only difference between the home and work machine > is home is a P166, work PPro200 and the PPro has been updated w/ a make > world once (very recent). > In the 3.0-current is a lot of time the rc5des exit with signal 11, but in the 2.2.5-STABLE it has beging few times ago... And not in every box, the one with Pentium MMX continues to works... Perhaps is the FOOF that keep this box running ? :-) -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 13:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04818 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ewc-nt.ewc.edu (surf4282.se.mediaone.net [24.129.49.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04727 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@ewc-nt.ewc.edu) Received: (from root@localhost) by ewc-nt.ewc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00729; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:51:20 GMT (envelope-from root) Received: from eot.cs.uoregon.edu ([128.223.202.87]) by ewc-nt.ewc.edu (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA249 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:37:02 -0500 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by eot.cs.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01928; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19889; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:38:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:37:10 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19416 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19305 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:36:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA02222; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:04:52 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801271804.TAA02222@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Proposed PNP changes To: kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu (Kurt Olsen) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:04:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801271913.MAA18031@bootp.sls.usu.edu> from "Kurt Olsen" at Jan 27, 98 12:13:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Status: RO X-IMAP-Date: 27-Jan-1998 14:37:06 +0000 X-UID: 654 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After checking out the PNP support in 3.0 and 2.5-STABLE, I came to the > conclusion that it could do more. So here's my thoughts, and hopefully > I'll get something done this weekend. > > The primary changes I want to make: > > 1 - grok the configuration information before USERCONFIG and identify > all LDNs and the resources they want as well as the configuration > values they accept. This is ok, but be sure not to overwrite the kernel table with the info from the previous config. In particular for those entries with the "os" flag set. > 2 - recognize the compatible tag for devices where we don't have > card specific drivers, but we do have general drivers. ie. I > have a plug and play ethernet card that's been in hardwired mode > for the last year, but it's ne2000 compatible and there's no > reason it couldn't be dynamically configured before the ed0 > probe. you are suggesting two things I believe: one is to do more than what our PnP does now, i.e. recognize compatible tags; this requires to run a little bit more of the pnp protocol, much like pnpinfo does. It adds a little bit of complexity to the code though. The other one is to make additional drivers PnP aware. jmg already did this for sio, and this is not hard at all. > Any suggestions? Or comments? Any reason why I won't be able to > run the isolation protocol before userconfig? just lazyness on my side, because function pnp_isolation_protocol() currently does both the insolation protocol and calls the config afterwards. It should not be hard to split this into two pieces and call one before userconfig, and the other one when configuring PnP devices. Just make sure that the insolation gets called even when userconfig is not used. And thanks a lot for volunteering to clean up this code! cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 14:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16502 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16428 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA28795 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:51:36 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: detecting regexp implementations with gnu autoconf Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm making some adjustments to a program which currently uses (linux?) regular expression processing: #include Call compile() then step() A solaris machine I have uses: #include char *compile(char *instring, char *expbuf, const char *endbuf); int step(const char *string, const char *expbuf); It looks like *BSD supports POSIX regular expressions: #include #include int regcomp(regex_t *preg, const char *pattern, int cflags); int regexec(const regex_t *preg, const char *string, size_t nmatch, regmatch_t pmatch[], int eflags); size_t regerror(int errcode, const regex_t *preg, char *errbuf, size_t errbuf_size); void regfree(regex_t *preg); What would the best way to dance around this in the application program? I want to submit source changes to the maintainers which will allow the program to compile and run on *BSD. Right now the plan is to have autoconf look for regex.h, regcomp(), regexc(), regerror() and regfree() as the signature for the POSIX implementation. Otherwise use compile() and step() if they are present. #if defined(HAVE_REGEX_H) && defined(HAVE_REGCOMP) \ && defined(HAVE_REGEXEC) && defined(HAVE_REGERROR) \ && defined(HAVE_REGFREE) #define USE_POSIX_REGEX 1 #elif defined(HAVE_COMPILE) && defined(HAVE_STEP) #define USE_SYSV_REGEX 1 #else #error "Need either POSIX or SYSV (compile/step) regex support." #endif Suggestions? -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 15:05:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18654 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA18636 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:05:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 17224 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Feb 1998 23:13:51 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:13:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Nadav Eiron Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, Jay Nelson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanx! Simon On 26-Feb-98 Nadav Eiron wrote: > > > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > >> >> On 26-Feb-98 Jay Nelson wrote: >> > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: >> > >> >> >> >>On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> >>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >> >>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is >> >>> another >> >>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >> >> >> >>Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. >> > >> > Fantastic. And journaled file systems, too? Great news. Please keep us >> > posted. Are you using any of the MOSIX work? >> >> JFS is someone else's bag. He/She is on this list. Again, patience is >> the >> key here. >> >> I am using mainly Simon work. What is MOSIX ? >> > > Clustering software developed at HUJI (Hebrew University, Jerusalem) on > BSD/OS. They have a six-node version you can download called MO6. See: > > http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/labs/distrib/index.html > > wait... There's even a US mirror (for those of you who don't have 34mbps > direct to Jerusalem ;-) ): > > http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/mirrors/mosix/ > >> >> ---------- >> >> >> Sincerely Yours, >> >> Simon Shapiro >> Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 >> > > Nadav > ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 15:12:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA20362 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 26960 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Feb 1998 23:20:55 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802261857.TAA01344@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:20:55 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Simon Shapiro wrote... >> >> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> ... >> >> > Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >> > like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another >> > kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >> >> Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. > > Next step: a volume manager? I'll let someone else commit to this one. I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 15:14:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:14:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21117 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:14:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 28897 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Feb 1998 23:22:33 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802261858.TAA01351@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:22:33 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, tom@sdf.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Simon Shapiro wrote... >> >> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> >> ... >> >> > Who will write the CFS ? ;-) (cluster file system) >> >> Shhhh... Are you trying to spoil ALL the fun? :-) > > So it seems.... %-) > > But about fun: maybe I should start hunting for Memory Channel hardware? Intelectually stimulating stuff... I need to get permission form a previous employer to publish something i wrote before on these technologies. Not all that simple/great... Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 16:13:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03213 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:13:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03200 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:13:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id QAA04406; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:13:13 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199802280013.QAA04406@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802271811.KAA00364@bubba.whistle.com> from Archie Cobbs at "Feb 27, 98 10:11:46 am" To: archie@whistle.com (Archie Cobbs) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:13:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, sthaug@nethelp.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Archie Cobbs: > Mike Smith writes: > > Sure. However I think the point here is that you can only do hardware > > checksums efficiently if you collapse the protocol stack to the point > > where code has access to both the hardware and then TCP layer. > > > > That's expedient, and fast, but potentially *very* ugly. It also > > raises the issue of fragment reassembly. > > There's nothing wrong with taking stable, existing, working code > and optimizing it for the common case. > > For example, you could do it with an internal mbuf flag M_IPSUM that > would indicate that the hardware has already verified the checksum > on the packet. > > Sure it's not pretty, but it's a lot cleaner than some other stuff > I've seen in there.. (the kernel, that is :-) > > -Archie Yup. The ifnet device has a flag which indicates that it is capable of doing checksum in the hardware and you set this flag in the mbufs and pass it along. This is pretty usefule when computing checksumn in hardware for transmits too. I know of atleast two protocol stack implementations (popular too) that use these techniques... Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 16:22:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04757 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:22:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03128; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:48:39 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11821 for freebsd-announce-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:26:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11629 for freebsd-announce@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:23:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802270145.SAA00632@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, announce@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New version of JDK1.1.5 for FreeBSD X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Java Development Kit for FreeBSD is now released. For more information check out: http://www.FreeBSD.org/java/ Of interest: To make a a distribution that works with X/Motif *and* without X, two java/jre binaries are provided. The first is linked without X, and is the standard binary. The second binary is linked against a static version of Motif, and against the shared X libraries. The version used is controlled by the setting of the DISPLAY environment variable, which is used by X to determine where to send the output. Fixed in this release: - X is no longer required to run non-AWT applications (see above). - JDK's built on 2.2.2 should now work again. - The AWT now correctly sets the Window name. - Fixed obscure bug that could cause a core dump if you hit a button in a dialog box multiple times. - Fixed bug where SHMEM wasn't released when using images, causing a leak. In addtion, a JRE and the patches used to build this release are made available. - The FreeBSD Java team This is the moderated mailing list freebsd-announce. The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, important events and project milestones. See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org To unsubscribe from freebsd-announce, send a mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with the body unsubscribe freebsd-announce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-announce" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 16:41:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06219 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:41:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04589; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:08:29 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA14973; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:08:28 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228110827.36052@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:08:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, Wilko Bulte Cc: jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <199802261857.TAA01344@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 03:20:55PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 15:20:55 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 26-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >> As Simon Shapiro wrote... >>> >>> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >>> ... >>> >>>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >>>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is another >>>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >>> >>> Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. >> >> Next step: a volume manager? > > I'll let someone else commit to this one. Done. > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. How can that work? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 16:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08009 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07984 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA06246 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd006244; Fri Feb 27 16:55:37 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id QAA03231 for hackers@Freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:34 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199802280055.QAA03231@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: FYI: AMI MegaRaid and Mylex DAC960 Raid controllers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:34 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG AMI: In the beginning they aggreed to give me programming documentation, but now refuse to do it. I will follow up with their marketing director who got not involved in this sofar. Mylex: I got programming documentation and a free 3 channel DAC960PJ controller to do the driver development and I will begin this weekend. If you have any suggestions for features, please send them to me. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 16:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA08112 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:56:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 6726 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Feb 1998 01:04:50 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-022398 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980228110827.36052@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:04:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, Wilko Bulte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 15:20:55 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >> >> On 26-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >>> As Simon Shapiro wrote... >>>> >>>> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >>>> ... >>>> >>>>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >>>>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is >>>>> another >>>>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >>>> >>>> Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. >>> >>> Next step: a volume manager? >> >> I'll let someone else commit to this one. > > Done. > >> I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT >> supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. > > How can that work? Which? Julian's stuff? I do not clearly remember, but a slice can be re-written and then re-evaluated. Care needs to be excercised in not overlapping, not destroying things, etc. DPT arrays? Simple; you make an ioctl call into the DPT driver, I write a message to the controler, specifying which disk to add to which array, the controller starts a hot rebuild, etc. The details escape me right now, but I belive it is doable. Why would you want to do that? No idea... :-) ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:02:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09396 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:02:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA09343 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA28214 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:06:41 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA01720; Fri, 27 Feb 98 20:01:18 EST Message-Id: <34F7625E.63D9@njcc.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:03:26 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fast EtherLink XL NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, I guess I dozed off in the middle of the "Which NIC is Fastest" debate, and I find myself now looking at the latest 3Com card that is available for $45 from 3Com (at 1-888-906-3COM (ext. 128) - is this a good, high-performance card for a 100MB/s network? I am curious with its performance relative to, say, a NetGear FA-310TX at about the same price ($35 +/-)? Thanks in advance (and sorry for stirring up the pot again!), Ken khansen@njcc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:10:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11446 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11347 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) id RAA18825; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:05:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:05:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280105.RAA18825@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org CC: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-reply-to: (message from Simon Shapiro on Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:04:50 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * DPT arrays? Simple; you make an ioctl call into the DPT driver, I write a * message to the controler, specifying which disk to add to which array, the * controller starts a hot rebuild, etc. The details escape me right now, but * I belive it is doable. Why would you want to do that? No idea... :-) This is pointless. I think it's about time people stop answering the question "can I increase the size of an array?" with anything else than "not until we have a filesystem to support it." We're just confusing people. Satoshi (yeah, ccd can increase the size of the array too, but so what?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:12:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11785 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:12:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11676 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29774; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:10:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280110.RAA29774@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: khansen@njcc.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fast EtherLink XL NIC In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:03:26 EST." <34F7625E.63D9@njcc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:10:04 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sorry, I guess I dozed off in the middle of the "Which NIC is Fastest" > debate, and I find myself now looking at the latest 3Com card that is > available for $45 from 3Com (at 1-888-906-3COM (ext. 128) - is this > a good, high-performance card for a 100MB/s network? I am curious with > its performance relative to, say, a NetGear FA-310TX at about the same > price ($35 +/-)? NO! At this point in time, DO NOT purchase or plan to purchase any 3Com PCI adapter for use with FreeBSD on 100Mb/s networks. Whilst some of the adapters may indeed posess high-performance features, FreeBSD does not support these features. Your performance will *SUCK*. > Thanks in advance (and sorry for stirring up the pot again!), Please consider consulting the FreeBSD mailing list archives at www.freebsd.org before asking questions like this. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:14:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12197 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04639 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:43:50 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA15226; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:43:50 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228114349.01329@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:43:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anybody explain this to me? I'm writing a disk block, and am currently at bwrite: (kgdb) bt #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 #1 0xf0138d6a in vop_stdbwrite (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:283 #2 0xf0138bb1 in vop_defaultop (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:130 #3 0xf0146639 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:127 #4 0xf01c5679 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2242 #5 0xf2aab097 in VOP_BWRITE (bp=0xf051ec00) at vnode_if.h:1117 #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 #7 0xf2aa9189 in vinumstrategy (bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:71 #8 0xf2aa7b63 in vinum_writedisklabel (vol=0xf0563000, lp=0xf0563110) at io.c:830 I've handed a buffer header up from frame 6 (not the bp in the parameter list). When it gets to bwrite, it has a different content. gdb tells me different contents depending on the frame it's in: (kgdb) f 0 #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 364 int oldflags = bp->b_flags; (kgdb) p bp->b_vp $13 = (struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0 (kgdb) p ((struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0)->v_type $14 = VBLK (kgdb) f 6 #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 228 VOP_BWRITE (&rqe->b); /* do an asynchronous write */ (kgdb) p ((struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0)->v_type $15 = VNON (kgdb) Significant parts of the vnode are different; I just showed v_type to demonstrate it. What's going on here? I don't see any remapping of memory going on anwhere here. Is this a bug in gdb, or in me? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:18:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA13236 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 9485 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Feb 1998 01:25:52 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802280105.RAA18825@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:52 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: (Satoshi Asami) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 Satoshi Asami wrote: > * DPT arrays? Simple; you make an ioctl call into the DPT driver, I > write a > * message to the controler, specifying which disk to add to which array, > the > * controller starts a hot rebuild, etc. The details escape me right > now, but > * I belive it is doable. Why would you want to do that? No idea... :-) > > This is pointless. > > I think it's about time people stop answering the question "can I > increase the size of an array?" with anything else than "not until we > have a filesystem to support it." We're just confusing people. > > Satoshi (yeah, ccd can increase the size of the array too, but so what?) Not really. There is life in operating systems (Unix in particular - FreeBSd included) beyond filesystems. Raw devices are being used, heavily for many things, including most commercial RDBMS. Also, filesystems are on the horizon (AFA FreeBSD is concerned) that can grow and for these one needs a storage medium that can grow. I do not find extendible storage all that useful, but i do not routinely maintain large servers that run out of space in the middle of everything either. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:25:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14476 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) id RAA18905; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:24:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:24:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280124.RAA18905@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org CC: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com In-reply-to: (message from Simon Shapiro on Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:52 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Not really. There is life in operating systems (Unix in particular - * FreeBSd included) beyond filesystems. Raw devices are being used, heavily * for many things, including most commercial RDBMS. * * Also, filesystems are on the horizon (AFA FreeBSD is concerned) that can * grow and for these one needs a storage medium that can grow. * * I do not find extendible storage all that useful, but i do not routinely * maintain large servers that run out of space in the middle of everything * either. Of course, that's a right answer. If you said that as a disclaimer to your initial reply, I wouldn't have complained. ;) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:28:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA15405 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:28:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 9725 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Feb 1998 01:36:32 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199802280124.RAA18905@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:36:31 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: (Satoshi Asami) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 Satoshi Asami wrote: ... > Of course, that's a right answer. If you said that as a disclaimer to > your initial reply, I wouldn't have complained. ;) Since I am very old and not very bright, I assume everyone knows anything i know, only better... :-) ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:47:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:47:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19057 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:47:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29930; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:45:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280145.RAA29930@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:43:49 +1030." <19980228114349.01329@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:45:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can anybody explain this to me? I'm writing a disk block, and am > currently at bwrite: > > (kgdb) bt > #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 > #1 0xf0138d6a in vop_stdbwrite (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:283 > #2 0xf0138bb1 in vop_defaultop (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:130 > #3 0xf0146639 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:127 > #4 0xf01c5679 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2242 > #5 0xf2aab097 in VOP_BWRITE (bp=0xf051ec00) at vnode_if.h:1117 > #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 > #7 0xf2aa9189 in vinumstrategy (bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:71 > #8 0xf2aa7b63 in vinum_writedisklabel (vol=0xf0563000, lp=0xf0563110) at io.c:830 > > I've handed a buffer header up from frame 6 (not the bp in the > parameter list). When it gets to bwrite, it has a different content. > gdb tells me different contents depending on the frame it's in: My guess would be that the bp has been translated to reflect the block device that it will be operating on at bwrite level rather than the logical device that you were operating on when you called VOP_BWRITE. This would involve a change in vnode, as well as (maybe) offset etc. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:52:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19767 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:51:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04844; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:21:11 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA15755; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:21:10 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228122110.36590@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:21:10 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228114349.01329@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280145.RAA29930@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802280145.RAA29930@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 05:45:39PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:45:39 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Can anybody explain this to me? I'm writing a disk block, and am >> currently at bwrite: >> >> (kgdb) bt >> #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 >> #1 0xf0138d6a in vop_stdbwrite (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:283 >> #2 0xf0138bb1 in vop_defaultop (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:130 >> #3 0xf0146639 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:127 >> #4 0xf01c5679 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2242 >> #5 0xf2aab097 in VOP_BWRITE (bp=0xf051ec00) at vnode_if.h:1117 >> #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 >> #7 0xf2aa9189 in vinumstrategy (bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:71 >> #8 0xf2aa7b63 in vinum_writedisklabel (vol=0xf0563000, lp=0xf0563110) at io.c:830 >> >> I've handed a buffer header up from frame 6 (not the bp in the >> parameter list). When it gets to bwrite, it has a different content. >> gdb tells me different contents depending on the frame it's in: > > My guess would be that the bp has been translated to reflect the block > device that it will be operating on at bwrite level rather than the > logical device that you were operating on when you called VOP_BWRITE. > > This would involve a change in vnode, as well as (maybe) offset etc. Look at the addresses. They're the same: > (kgdb) f 0 > #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 > 364 int oldflags = bp->b_flags; > (kgdb) p bp->b_vp > $13 = (struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0 > (kgdb) p ((struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0)->v_type > $14 = VBLK > (kgdb) f 6 > #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 > 228 VOP_BWRITE (&rqe->b); /* do an asynchronous write */ > (kgdb) p ((struct vnode *) 0xf29ecbc0)->v_type > $15 = VNON > (kgdb) Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 17:59:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20843 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20831 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:59:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29982; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:56:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280156.RAA29982@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:21:10 +1030." <19980228122110.36590@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:56:46 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:45:39 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> Can anybody explain this to me? I'm writing a disk block, and am > >> currently at bwrite: > >> > >> (kgdb) bt > >> #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 > >> #1 0xf0138d6a in vop_stdbwrite (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:283 > >> #2 0xf0138bb1 in vop_defaultop (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:130 > >> #3 0xf0146639 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:127 > >> #4 0xf01c5679 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2242 > >> #5 0xf2aab097 in VOP_BWRITE (bp=0xf051ec00) at vnode_if.h:1117 > >> #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 > >> #7 0xf2aa9189 in vinumstrategy (bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:71 > >> #8 0xf2aa7b63 in vinum_writedisklabel (vol=0xf0563000, lp=0xf0563110) at io.c:830 > >> > >> I've handed a buffer header up from frame 6 (not the bp in the > >> parameter list). When it gets to bwrite, it has a different content. > >> gdb tells me different contents depending on the frame it's in: > > > > My guess would be that the bp has been translated to reflect the block > > device that it will be operating on at bwrite level rather than the > > logical device that you were operating on when you called VOP_BWRITE. > > > > This would involve a change in vnode, as well as (maybe) offset etc. > > Look at the addresses. They're the same: Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done elsewhere rather than cloning the original. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:03:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:03:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21939 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04866; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:32:54 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA15832; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:32:53 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:32:53 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228122110.36590@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280156.RAA29982@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802280156.RAA29982@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 05:56:46PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:45:39 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> Can anybody explain this to me? I'm writing a disk block, and am >>>> currently at bwrite: >>>> >>>> (kgdb) bt >>>> #0 bwrite (bp=0xf051ec00) at ../../kern/vfs_bio.c:364 >>>> #1 0xf0138d6a in vop_stdbwrite (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:283 >>>> #2 0xf0138bb1 in vop_defaultop (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../kern/vfs_default.c:130 >>>> #3 0xf0146639 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:127 >>>> #4 0xf01c5679 in ufs_vnoperatespec (ap=0xf2a76c74) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:2242 >>>> #5 0xf2aab097 in VOP_BWRITE (bp=0xf051ec00) at vnode_if.h:1117 >>>> #6 0xf2aa95c4 in vinumstart (vol=0xf0563000, bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:228 >>>> #7 0xf2aa9189 in vinumstrategy (bp=0xf10f1bb0) at request.c:71 >>>> #8 0xf2aa7b63 in vinum_writedisklabel (vol=0xf0563000, lp=0xf0563110) at io.c:830 >>>> >>>> I've handed a buffer header up from frame 6 (not the bp in the >>>> parameter list). When it gets to bwrite, it has a different content. >>>> gdb tells me different contents depending on the frame it's in: >>> >>> My guess would be that the bp has been translated to reflect the block >>> device that it will be operating on at bwrite level rather than the >>> logical device that you were operating on when you called VOP_BWRITE. >>> >>> This would involve a change in vnode, as well as (maybe) offset etc. >> >> Look at the addresses. They're the same: > > Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite > a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done > elsewhere rather than cloning the original. Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:16:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23624 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00165; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:14:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:32:53 +1030." <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:14:02 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite > > a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done > > elsewhere rather than cloning the original. > > Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still > missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the > debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You > might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content > of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? Whoops. OK, are we sure that "bp" points to the same type in both cases? And more importantly, that bp->b_vp is expected to be the same type? (Yes, this is *really* clutching at straws). There's not much else short of a GDB bug that I can think of that would cause this. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:36:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25206 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25164 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:35:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04169; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004127; Fri Feb 27 19:35:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA22897; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:35:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802280235.TAA22897@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:35:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980228110827.36052@freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Feb 28, 98 11:08:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT > > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. > > How can that work? Take a set of devices: [ ] [ ] [ ] The kernel views these as linear arrays of blocks. Steal the first block and/or cylinder and put: struct ccd_label { char signature[ 20]; /* "This is a CCD device"*/ time_t timestamp; /* set created this time*/ long ident; /* set's additional uniquifier*/ long item; /* piece number ...*/ long of; /* of...*/ }; on the front of it. Then you have a CCD SLICE manager that claims these things, and when all N item's of an N item device "arrive", it exports another device that's the agregate of N devices. It works because the SLICE code implements "arrival" events. Personally, I want to use "arrival" events to trigger mounts. 8-). The mapping into the FS hierarchy is a seperate problem altogether. Combine this with "soft readonly" to go with you "soft updates", and you should be able to just turn things off and turn them on and not need fsck's or have mount problems, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:42:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26768 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:42:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26761 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA17727; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Mike Smith cc: Dan Janowski , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802252058.MAA20930@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at > hand. netperf has done this for ages. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:47:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27426 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27413 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00310; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:43:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280243.SAA00310@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Curt Sampson cc: Mike Smith , Dan Janowski , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:41:28 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:43:50 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at > > hand. > > netperf has done this for ages. It can measure interrupt handler execution time for just the adapter driver? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:57:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:57:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28345 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04930; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:27:20 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA15941; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:48:44 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228124844.00033@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:48:44 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 06:14:02PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 18:14:02 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite >>> a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done >>> elsewhere rather than cloning the original. >> >> Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still >> missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the >> debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You >> might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content >> of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? > > Whoops. OK, are we sure that "bp" points to the same type in both > cases? Not any more :-) Somebody else replied first. > And more importantly, that bp->b_vp is expected to be the same type? Yes, it was. > (Yes, this is *really* clutching at straws). There's not much else > short of a GDB bug that I can think of that would cause this. Thanks. I should have seen this myself, but sometimes you end up looking in the wrong place. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 18:58:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:58:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28346 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04927; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:27:19 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA15924; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:45:45 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228124544.45624@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:45:44 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228122110.36590@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280156.RAA29982@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 12:32:53PM +1030 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 28 February 1998 at 12:32:53 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:45:39 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite >> a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done >> elsewhere rather than cloning the original. > > Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still > missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the > debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You > might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content > of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? Found! thanks to the help of a private reply. For some reason, my struct vnode looks different in each frame. I was using the pointer in the buf header instead of the absolute address. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00404 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18452; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:05:34 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Chris Dillon cc: Adam Turoff , hackers , Robert Glover Subject: RE: Token Ring for FreeBSD yet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Chris Dillon wrote: > CSMA/CD just isn't very > efficient on a heavily loaded network. The CSMA/CD network (Ethernet) > would spend more time dealing with collisions than it would passing usable > data. *Sigh*. It's now been nearly ten years since this myth was killed, and yet people are still repeating it. If you want to see a real live Ethernet 3000 feet long with 24 hosts on it operating at greater than 90% capacity, with an offered load that *continuously* exceeds the theoretical capacity of the network, have a look at ftp://ftp.cynic.net/pub/cjs/ethnetcap.ps.gz cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:13:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01499 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04944; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:42:29 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA16319; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:42:29 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228134228.40320@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:42:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, Wilko Bulte Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <19980228110827.36052@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 05:04:50PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:04:50 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 28-Feb-98 Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 15:20:55 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >>> >>> On 26-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >>>> As Simon Shapiro wrote... >>>>> >>>>> On 25-Feb-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>>> Digital Unix TruClusters do DRD (distributed raw device) now. Things >>>>>> like Oracle Parallel Server love this. A cluster filesystem is >>>>>> another >>>>>> kettle of fish of course. But not impossible, see OpenVMS. >>>>> >>>>> Stay tuned... FreeBSD will have this functionality too. >>>> >>>> Next step: a volume manager? >>> >>> I'll let someone else commit to this one. >> >> Done. >> >>> I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT >>> supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. >> >> How can that work? > > Which? > > Julian's stuff? I do not clearly remember, but a slice can be re-written > and then re-evaluated. Care needs to be excercised in not overlapping, not > destroying things, etc. No, sorry, I wasn't talking about Julian's stuff (which I *still* haven't looked at; sorry, Julian). > DPT arrays? Simple; you make an ioctl call into the DPT driver, I > write a message to the controler, specifying which disk to add to > which array, the controller starts a hot rebuild, etc. The details > escape me right now, but I belive it is doable. Why would you want > to do that? No idea... :-) I was thinking more about what the ioctl call does. Raid 5 spreads data in stripes over all drives (or subdisks if you're using a Veritas-like volume manager). Add a drive, and you break this mapping. The only way to rearrange is to rewrite all the disks. Is that what they do? Or are they cheating in some manner? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:15:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01870 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18850; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:14:50 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:14:50 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Mike Smith cc: Dan Janowski , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802280243.SAA00310@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > The question is how to measure CPU overhead, since that is the issue at > > > hand. > > > > netperf has done this for ages. > > It can measure interrupt handler execution time for just the adapter > driver? No. But you don't need that. You just need to run netperf on the same completely idle system with each network card and see the overall difference in CPU utilisation. This has the added advantage that this will catch other problems with the driver, such as having to copy due to bad alignment or things like that. (This is probably not a big deal on i386, but the Intel chipset's ability to pad the in-memory Ethernet header by a couple of bytes is a godsend on Alphas, where you generally want the IP header to be aligned.) cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02592; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11752; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:17:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd011745; Fri Feb 27 20:17:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA25486; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:17:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802280317.UAA25486@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:17:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-Reply-To: <199802280105.RAA18825@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Satoshi Asami" at Feb 27, 98 05:05:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it's about time people stop answering the question "can I > increase the size of an array?" with anything else than "not until we > have a filesystem to support it." We're just confusing people. FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. There are (minor) fragmentation issues with doing this, but they can be addressed seperately (most easily with a backup/restore). The code to bump the number of cylinder groups up is trivial. You can't bump the number of cylinder groups down without writing a defragmenter that includes code to allow biasing reallocation against the area you want to remove. There isn't currently any kind of defragmenter because you don't get fragmentation unless you go out of your way to overfill the disk and/or you start adding cylinder groups. 8-). The code to deal with removing an intermediate piece (instead of taking it off the end) is also trivial, assuming it has been defragged out of. You set some limit M on the number of elements you can agregate together into a virtual device, and steal log2(M) bits off the top of the 64 bit block address space. This will reduce the maximum size an FS can be, but nobody has written an HSM for FreeBSD, and hooked up the largest tape robot there is to it, so it's not an issue. 8-). When a block request comes in, you split the bits into "element identifier" and "block on element". This is a pretty trivial change to *_balloc(), and it won't affect any existing FS's, unless M gets set insanely large. Removing the *first* piece is a harder problem because of the definitional value for inode #2 (historical note: FS roots are inode #2 because inode #1 used to be the bad block list, and can't be used because there are archivers that know this and won't archive inode #1). This requires that you change the location of the root of the FS to a different inode number. This is actually not terribly difficult; you can do it by allocating a "root inode" field in the superblock. The problem here is that superblock changes like new/deleted fields are non-trivial because of the installed base conversion problem and the tools problems they cause (ie: newfs would have to know about it, fsck would have to know about it, you'd have to change every copy of the superblock on disk so mount wouldn't go ballistic, etc. -- it's an upgrade nightmare). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:28:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:28:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA04269 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:28:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 18411 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Feb 1998 03:36:02 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980228134228.40320@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:36:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, Wilko Bulte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 Greg Lehey wrote: ... >> DPT arrays? Simple; you make an ioctl call into the DPT driver, I >> write a message to the controler, specifying which disk to add to >> which array, the controller starts a hot rebuild, etc. The details >> escape me right now, but I belive it is doable. Why would you want >> to do that? No idea... :-) > > I was thinking more about what the ioctl call does. Raid 5 spreads > data in stripes over all drives (or subdisks if you're using a > Veritas-like volume manager). Add a drive, and you break this > mapping. The only way to rearrange is to rewrite all the disks. Is > that what they do? Or are they cheating in some manner? ( At some point in this thread MarkS (from DPT) is going to enter the thread and either explain it properly or tell me to stop violating the NDA I so cleverly signed :-) the IOCTL does nothing more than package a SCSI command, ship it to the controller, wait for the reply and ship that back. The rest is done in the controller. I do not think it re-writes the whole disk array. there is no real need for that. I think there is some hardware support for some of this stuff, and that DPT people know few things I do not. Once I clear my desk of what I am messing up now, I'll look into it a bit better. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:42:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06380 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:42:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca126-20.ix.netcom.com [207.92.177.212]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA19766; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00990; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:42:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:42:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802280342.TAA00990@baloon.mimi.com> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-reply-to: <199802280317.UAA25486@usr06.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:17:37 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. Patch? * There are (minor) fragmentation issues with doing this, but they can * be addressed seperately (most easily with a backup/restore). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Um, I don't think we need you to tell us that, Terry. ;) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 19:55:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10313 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09013; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd008979; Fri Feb 27 20:52:59 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27953; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:52:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802280352.UAA27953@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:52:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, shimon@simon-shapiro.org, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-Reply-To: <199802280342.TAA00990@baloon.mimi.com> from "Satoshi Asami" at Feb 27, 98 07:42:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. > > Patch? I'll consider doing one; it's a tunefs tweak, really. If I do, though, it will probably conflict with the soft updates changes to tunefs, at least until they are committed (I thought that was going to happen soon?). > * There are (minor) fragmentation issues with doing this, but they can > * be addressed seperately (most easily with a backup/restore). > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Um, I don't think we need you to tell us that, Terry. ;) The right way is a defragger. A backup/restore is the cowards way out. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 27 20:09:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14412 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14371 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:08:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04990; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:38:14 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA16493; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:38:13 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980228143813.13547@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:38:13 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , Satoshi Asami Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <199802280342.TAA00990@baloon.mimi.com> <199802280352.UAA27953@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802280352.UAA27953@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 03:52:52AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 28 February 1998 at 3:52:52 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. >> >> Patch? > > I'll consider doing one; it's a tunefs tweak, really. If I do, though, > it will probably conflict with the soft updates changes to tunefs, at > least until they are committed (I thought that was going to happen soon?). Let me have them as soon as they're ready to test. I can offer extensible volumes :-) Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 02:21:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20736 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:21:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA20727 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 10732 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Feb 1998 10:20:33 +0000 (GMT) To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:52:52 +0000 (GMT)" References: <199802280352.UAA27953@usr06.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:20:32 +0100 Message-ID: <10730.888661232@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. > > > > Patch? > > I'll consider doing one; it's a tunefs tweak, really. If I do, though, > it will probably conflict with the soft updates changes to tunefs, at > least until they are committed (I thought that was going to happen soon?). der mouse made an "fsresize" program for NetBSD. It can both grow and shrink file systems. The source is about 50 kB, I can post it here if anybody is interested (or you can get it from http://www.nethelp.no/scsi/fsresize.c). Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 02:31:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22408 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA22368 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01844; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:29:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802281029.CAA01844@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sthaug@nethelp.no cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com Subject: resizing ffs filesystems (was Re: SCSI Bus redundancy...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:20:32 +0100." <10730.888661232@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:29:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > der mouse made an "fsresize" program for NetBSD. It can both grow and shrink > file systems. The source is about 50 kB, I can post it here if anybody is > interested (or you can get it from http://www.nethelp.no/scsi/fsresize.c). The URL is fine. Is there any anecdotal evidence as to how well this works? It does appear to handle both expansion and contraction, which would be a very nice thing indeed to have. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 03:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cc621.ntu.ac.sg (cc621.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.4.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24780 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ktsin@acm.org) From: ktsin@acm.org Received: from localhost (ktsin@localhost) by cc621.ntu.ac.sg (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00803 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:04:27 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from ktsin@acm.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cc621.ntu.ac.sg: ktsin owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:04:27 +0800 (SGT) X-Sender: ktsin@cc621.ntu.ac.sg To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: new flag for ntpdate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-726212756-888663867=:783" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-726212756-888663867=:783 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have added a new flag -u to tell ntpdate to use a non-reserved port ( < 1024 ) so that clients behind a firewall could synchronize with external NTP servers. I wonder if the patches could be merged into the source tree. kt --0-726212756-888663867=:783 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=patch-aa Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: patch-aa LS0tIHVzci5zYmluL3hudHBkL250cGRhdGUvbnRwZGF0ZS5jLm9yaWcJVHVl IE1heSAzMCAxMTo1NDowMyAxOTk1DQorKysgdXNyLnNiaW4veG50cGQvbnRw ZGF0ZS9udHBkYXRlLmMJVHVlIEphbiAxMyAxMToxOTo1OCAxOTk4DQpAQCAt NjIsNiArNjIsMTEgQEANCiBpbnQgZGVidWcgPSAwOw0KIA0KIC8qDQorICog VXNlIG5vbi1yZXNlcnZlZCBwb3J0IGZsYWcNCisgKi8NCitpbnQgdXNlX25y cG9ydCA9IDA7DQorDQorLyoNCiAgKiBGaWxlIGRlc2NyaXB0b3IgbWFza3Mg ZXRjLiBmb3IgY2FsbCB0byBzZWxlY3QNCiAgKi8NCiBpbnQgZmQ7DQpAQCAt MTc4LDcgKzE4Myw3IEBADQogCS8qDQogCSAqIERlY29kZSBhcmd1bWVudCBs aXN0DQogCSAqLw0KLQl3aGlsZSAoKGMgPSBudHBfZ2V0b3B0KGFyZ2MsIGFy Z3YsICJhOmJkZTprOm86cDpxc3Q6diIpKSAhPSBFT0YpDQorCXdoaWxlICgo YyA9IG50cF9nZXRvcHQoYXJnYywgYXJndiwgImE6YmRlOms6bzpwOnFzdDp1 diIpKSAhPSBFT0YpDQogCQlzd2l0Y2ggKGMpIHsNCiAJCWNhc2UgJ2EnOg0K IAkJCWMgPSBhdG9pKG50cF9vcHRhcmcpOw0KQEAgLTIzOCw2ICsyNDMsOSBA QA0KIAkJCQkJc3lzX3RpbWVvdXQgPSAxOw0KIAkJCX0NCiAJCQlicmVhazsN CisJCWNhc2UgJ3UnOg0KKwkJCXVzZV9ucnBvcnQrKzsNCisJCQlicmVhazsN CiAJCWNhc2UgJ3YnOg0KIAkJCXZlcmJvc2UgPSAxOw0KIAkJCWJyZWFrOw0K QEAgLTI1MSw3ICsyNTksNyBAQA0KIAlzeXNfbWF4c2VydmVycyA9IGFyZ2Mg LSBudHBfb3B0aW5kOw0KIAlpZiAoZXJyZmxnIHx8IHN5c19tYXhzZXJ2ZXJz ID09IDApIHsNCiAJCSh2b2lkKSBmcHJpbnRmKHN0ZGVyciwNCi0idXNhZ2U6 ICVzIFstYnFzXSBbLWEga2V5I10gWy1rIGZpbGVdIFstcCBzYW1wbGVzXSBb LXQgdGltZW9dIHNlcnZlciAuLi5cbiIsDQorInVzYWdlOiAlcyBbLWJxc3Vd IFstYSBrZXkjXSBbLWsgZmlsZV0gWy1wIHNhbXBsZXNdIFstdCB0aW1lb10g c2VydmVyIC4uLlxuIiwNCiAJCSAgICBwcm9nbmFtZSk7DQogCQlleGl0KDIp Ow0KIAl9DQpAQCAtMTE4MCw3ICsxMTg4LDcgQEANCiAJLyoNCiAJICogYmlu ZCB0aGUgc29ja2V0IHRvIHRoZSBOVFAgcG9ydA0KIAkgKi8NCi0JaWYgKCFk ZWJ1ZyAmJiAhc2ltcGxlX3F1ZXJ5KSB7DQorCWlmICghZGVidWcgJiYgIXNp bXBsZV9xdWVyeSAmJiAhdXNlX25ycG9ydCkgew0KIAkJc3RydWN0IHNvY2th ZGRyX2luIGFkZHI7DQogDQogCQltZW1zZXQoKGNoYXIgKikmYWRkciwgMCwg c2l6ZW9mIGFkZHIpOw0K --0-726212756-888663867=:783 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=patch-ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: patch-ab LS0tIHVzci5zYmluL3hudHBkL2RvYy9udHBkYXRlLjgub3JpZwlUaHUgU2Vw ICA1IDE5OjE4OjI3IDE5OTYNCisrKyB1c3Iuc2Jpbi94bnRwZC9kb2MvbnRw ZGF0ZS44CVR1ZSBKYW4gMTMgMTE6MTQ6MDcgMTk5OA0KQEAgLTQ2LDcgKzQ2 LDcgQEANCiAuU0ggU1lOT1BTSVMNCiAuQiBudHBkYXRlDQogWw0KLS5CIC1i ZHMNCisuQiAtYmRzdQ0KIF0gWw0KIC5CIC1vDQogLkkgdmVyc2lvbg0KQEAg LTEzNCw2ICsxMzQsMTcgQEANCiBzd2l0Y2ggY2FuIGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gZm9y Y2UgdGhlIHByb2dyYW0gdG8gcG9sbCBhcyBhIHZlcnNpb24gMiBvciAxDQog aW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gaW5zdGVhZC4NCiAuUFANCitUaGUNCisuQiAtdQ0K K2ZsYWcgdGVsbHMNCisuSSBudHBkYXRlDQordG8gdXNlIGFuIHVucHJpdmls ZWdlZCBwb3J0IHRvIHNlbmQgdGhlIHBhY2tldHMgZnJvbS4gVGhpcyBpcyB1 c2VmdWwNCit3aGVuIHlvdSBhcmUgYmVoaW5kIGEgZmlyZXdhbGwgdGhhdCBi bG9ja3MgaW5jb21pbmcgdHJhZmZpYyB0bw0KK3ByaXZpbGVnZWQgcG9ydHMs IGFuZCB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBzeW5jaHJvbmlzZSB3aXRoIGhvc3RzIGJleW9u ZCB0aGUNCitmaXJld2FsbC4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZQ0KKy5CIC1kDQorb3B0 aW9uIGFsd2F5cyB1c2VzIHVucHJpdmlsZWdlZCBwb3J0cy4NCisuUFANCiBU aGUgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHNhbXBsZXMNCiAuSSBudHBkYXRlDQogYWNxdWlyZXMg ZnJvbSBlYWNoIHNlcnZlciBjYW4gYmUgc2V0IHRvIGJldHdlZW4gMSBhbmQg OCBpbmNsdXNpdmUNCkBAIC0xODIsNyArMTkzLDggQEANCiAuU0ggU0VFIEFM U08NCiB4bnRwZCg4KQ0KIC5TSCBISVNUT1JZDQotV3JpdHRlbiBieSBEZW5u aXMgRmVyZ3Vzb24gYXQgdGhlIFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgb2YgVG9yb250bw0KK1dy aXR0ZW4gYnkgRGVubmlzIEZlcmd1c29uIGF0IHRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9m IFRvcm9udG8uDQorQWRkZWQgdGhlIC11IGZsYWcgYnkgS2V5IFRlY2sgU2lu Lg0KIC5TSCBCVUdTDQogVGhlIHRlY2huaXF1ZSB1c2VkIGZvciBpbXByb3Zp bmcgYWNjdXJhY3kgYnkgY29tcGVuc2F0aW5nIGZvciBjbG9jaw0KIG9zY2ls bGF0b3IgZXJyb3JzIHN1Y2tzLCBidXQgZG9pbmcgYmV0dGVyIHdvdWxkIHJl cXVpcmUgdGhlIHByb2dyYW0NCg== --0-726212756-888663867=:783-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 03:33:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26267 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:33:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26262 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:33:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10923; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd010921; Sat Feb 28 04:17:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA12348; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:16:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802281116.EAA12348@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: resizing ffs filesystems (was Re: SCSI Bus redundancy...) To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:16:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com In-Reply-To: <199802281029.CAA01844@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 28, 98 02:29:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > der mouse made an "fsresize" program for NetBSD. It can both grow and shrink > > file systems. The source is about 50 kB, I can post it here if anybody is > > interested (or you can get it from http://www.nethelp.no/scsi/fsresize.c). > > The URL is fine. Is there any anecdotal evidence as to how well this > works? It does appear to handle both expansion and contraction, which > would be a very nice thing indeed to have. It does not rehash allocations, so it has the fragmentation issues I mentioned before (ie: if the FS is very full and you grow it, the portion that is added is empty and the portion that was there prior to the add is still the same percentage full. Allocations are effectively hashing blocks onto the disk, so you still have the hash collisions in oldsize/newsize*100 percent of allocation attempts.). !!!Don't do a defragger until you read *all* of the rest of this!!! You could get an "average fill" for cylinder groups, and then take from each cylinder group, at random, and taking: oldsize/newsize*avg_blocks_allocated/blocks_in_cg worth of blocks and relocating them to the new area, hashing using the same algorithm as FFS uses, but only into the new cg's. The blocks picked should be pretty much at random in each old cg. This would be a "poor man's" defrag. The idea is to equalize the number of blocks in each cg (without cutting up clusters, of course). A better algorithm would take non-clustered block runs and cluster them, but that's a lot more work. The comment about the bug about "find_freespace" is correct; an end of file frag can *not* straddle a block boundry, so there *is* a bug there. The suggested fix seems reasonable, but the code is rather convoluted, so it'd be a bit hard to implement it in a small amount of time. The reallocation is linear on a shrink; this will probably result in the same fragmentation issues (generally, worse, since it will 100% fill cylinder groups if there is enough data that needs to be moved). You could fix this pretty easily, actually (easily in the theoretical sense; see the comment about the code, above), by employing the same allocation algorithm as FFS employs. This would guarantee that the data would be hashed into the available space equally instead of linearly. All in all, for a small hack, it's a pretty good effort. It should be safe to use to grow FS's (since the bug only bites when you attempt to move end of file frags and end up straddling a block boundry, and it doesn't attempt to defrag -- if someone adds this to it, they would need to worry about relocations when growing, as well). At least it saves me writing the expander... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 04:57:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04768 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.unpar.ac.id (proxy.unpar.ac.id [167.205.206.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04763 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id) Received: from student.unpar.ac.id (student.unpar.ac.id [167.205.206.58]) by proxy.unpar.ac.id (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01730 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:36:31 +0700 (JAVT) Received: from localhost (1193016@localhost) by student.unpar.ac.id (8.8.5/8.8.5.D) with SMTP id TAA01895 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:58:18 +0700 (JAVT) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:58:17 +0700 (JAVT) From: Thomas Wahyudi <1193016@student.unpar.ac.id> cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: lastlog data not change during adduser In-Reply-To: <199802121141.DAA19040@palrel1.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I wonder, why when I remove user A uid X and add user B, user B uid become X. Then I finger user B, hmm the lastlog show that last login user B is same with user A. Should, lastlog initialize data if user A is removed ? Best regard, from #### # Thomas Wahyudi # # # # 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id # ## ## http://student.unpar.ac.id/~1193016 -=-=-=-=-=PARAHYANGAN UNIVERSITY=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 05:35:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA08143 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:34:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA17458 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:02:02 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802281202.NAA17458@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: one-line bugfix to sys/i386/isa/snd/dmabuf.c To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:02:01 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was recently pointed out a bug in dmabuf.c -- there is one line which reads d->flags |= ~SND_F_ABORTING; which obviously should be changed to d->flags &= ~SND_F_ABORTING; this bug must have been there for ages, although it has been probably undetected since it only affects applications which use the capture channel and only when a signal is caught while the application is blocked on a tsleep. patches for the source tree for this and other minor things will be submitted in a few days. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 05:43:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09555 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from didda.est.is (root@toti.est.is [194.144.208.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09508 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:42:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from est.is (totii@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by didda.est.is (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03007; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:41:29 GMT (envelope-from totii@est.is) Message-ID: <34F81409.3E939A19@est.is> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:41:29 +0000 From: Thordur Ivarsson Reply-To: thivars@est.is X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ulf Zimmermann CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: AMI MegaRaid and Mylex DAC960 Raid controllers References: <199802280055.QAA03231@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > AMI: > > In the beginning they aggreed to give me programming documentation, but > now refuse to do it. I will follow up with their marketing director > who got not involved in this sofar. > > Mylex: > > I got programming documentation and a free 3 channel DAC960PJ controller > to do the driver development and I will begin this weekend. If you have > any suggestions for features, please send them to me. I am not sure of the design of mylex controllers but it would be nice to keep the driver support to 1,3,5 channel cards, Both EISA and PCI, I could have one EISA 1ch here if I ask nicely. > > Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 10:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01061 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01056 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Sat Feb 28 13:01 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA09118 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:10:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, grog@lemis.com Cc: jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SCSI Bus redundancy... Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:10:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Greg Lehey[SMTP:grog@lemis.com] > > > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT > > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. > > How can that work? > Something like - read N RAID blocks from K disks - compute new checksum for K+1 disks and write as less number of RAID blocks but each one of bigger size (K+1/K times) - add empty blocks at the end of RAID in the added space What am I wondering is why nobody did that before ? It's so boring to rebuild the whole RAID if all you want is to add or remove a disk. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 10:10:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:10:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru (orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru [194.85.83.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01554; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gam@orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru) Received: (from gam@localhost) by orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02039; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:09:38 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from gam) From: Alexander Gnativ Message-Id: <199802281809.VAA02039@orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru> Subject: ISA_PNP for FreeBSD To: smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:09:37 +0300 (MSK) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Phone: +7 (095) 972-7546 (Zarya),196-9551 (kiae) Reply-To: gam@links.ru Organization: Relcom Corp. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I am installing subj. for my FreeBSD 2.2.5 I want to configure my sound card (sb0) and have done all from README file. But when I begin to compile the new kernel, process stops with such diagnostic: ../../i386/isa/pnp.c: At top level: ../../i386/isa/pnp.c:325: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype *** Error code 1 Stop. In the string 325 I found function pnp_configure() Please, tell me what I must to do in such case. Thanks for advance. __________________________ Best regards, Alexander Gnativ. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 12:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17286 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA17273 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8sjT-00072N-00; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:19:39 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:19:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: using BSDI or Linux shared libs? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can I use shared libs from BSDI (2.1 or 3.1) or Linux? Basically, I want a native FreeBSD app to be able to load either BSDI or Linux shared libs. Openlink Software distributes ODBC drivers for BSDI 2.1, BSDI 3.1, and Linux. Source for the ODBC manager is available (iODBC), and it demand loads the appropiate ODBC driver. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 13:52:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slug.EUnet.pt (sj3-p15.telepac.pt [194.65.185.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22591; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) Received: from localhost (jmg@localhost) by slug.EUnet.pt (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05521; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:47:39 GMT (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) X-Authentication-Warning: slug.EUnet.pt: jmg owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:47:38 +0000 (WET) From: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt X-Sender: jmg@slug.EUnet.pt To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI host adapter... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. Soon I'll upgrade my machine's disk sub-system from IDE to SCSI but I have some doubts. Which SCSI host adapter should I buy? I was thinking about the Adaptec 2940UW but it is soooo expensive here (aprox. $330) that I thought about the ASUS PCI-SC875 (Symbios Logic 53C875) which is much cheaper. Which one performs better? I also know that the ASUS adapter only supports SCSI-2 so I won't be able to plug a Quantum Atlas II (UW, SCSI-3) that I am planning to buy. Am I right? I've heard that from time to time some problems appear on the Adaptec driver and I've never heard anything similar about the cards with Symbios chips. But as I know that wcarchive.cdrom.com is running with 2 Adaptecs 3940 it shouldn't be a problem, right? I've also heard about the DPT host adapters, which are very fast trusting the company that produces these cards. Anyone with experiences on those? I might go with the inexpensive ASUS card now and buy a DPT latter instead of the Adaptec... (FYI this is for my home machine and I can't spend to much money on it) Thanks in advance To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 13:53:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22727 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slug.EUnet.pt (sj3-p15.telepac.pt [194.65.185.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22385; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) Received: from localhost (jmg@localhost) by slug.EUnet.pt (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05521; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:47:39 GMT (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) X-Authentication-Warning: slug.EUnet.pt: jmg owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:47:38 +0000 (WET) From: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt X-Sender: jmg@slug.EUnet.pt To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCSI host adapter... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. Soon I'll upgrade my machine's disk sub-system from IDE to SCSI but I have some doubts. Which SCSI host adapter should I buy? I was thinking about the Adaptec 2940UW but it is soooo expensive here (aprox. $330) that I thought about the ASUS PCI-SC875 (Symbios Logic 53C875) which is much cheaper. Which one performs better? I also know that the ASUS adapter only supports SCSI-2 so I won't be able to plug a Quantum Atlas II (UW, SCSI-3) that I am planning to buy. Am I right? I've heard that from time to time some problems appear on the Adaptec driver and I've never heard anything similar about the cards with Symbios chips. But as I know that wcarchive.cdrom.com is running with 2 Adaptecs 3940 it shouldn't be a problem, right? I've also heard about the DPT host adapters, which are very fast trusting the company that produces these cards. Anyone with experiences on those? I might go with the inexpensive ASUS card now and buy a DPT latter instead of the Adaptec... (FYI this is for my home machine and I can't spend to much money on it) Thanks in advance To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 14:14:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25502 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25471 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:13:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 18951 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Feb 1998 22:21:35 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:21:35 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Subject: RE: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, blkirk@float.eli.net, jdn@acp.qiv.com, grog@lemis.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: >> ---------- >> From: Greg Lehey[SMTP:grog@lemis.com] >> >> > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT >> > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. >> >> How can that work? >> > Something like > - read N RAID blocks from K disks > - compute new checksum for K+1 disks and write as less number > of RAID blocks but each one of bigger size (K+1/K times) > - add empty blocks at the end of RAID in the added space > > What am I wondering is why nobody did that before ? It's so boring > to rebuild the whole RAID if all you want is to add or remove a disk. Like I said; More than one way to skin a cat. I still prefer to have someone else do it for me (who is beter, etc.), but this is only me. We can always do all this in the O/S kernel... ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:02:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00171 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:02:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08601 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802282204.OAA08601@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.dpt.com/os2.htm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:04:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could someone contact DPT so that the FreeBSD is included as an OS which supports DPT controllers? Tnks Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:12:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01256 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA01241 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:12:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8v9X-00077W-00; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:54:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:54:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.dpt.com/os2.htm In-Reply-To: <199802282204.OAA08601@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Could someone contact DPT so that the FreeBSD is included as an OS > which supports DPT controllers? > > Tnks > Amancio I believe DPT staff hang-out on the freebsd-scsi list... Also, it would nice if the DPT driver was actually available in a released version of FreeBSD first. The 2.2-stable version is great, but remains uncommitted. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:16:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01928 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01107; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10732; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:10:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id AAA18448; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:09:23 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:09:22 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser Subject: Re: SCSI host adapter... Mail-Followup-To: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 09:47:38PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-02-28 21:47 +0000, freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt wrote: > Which SCSI host adapter should I buy? I was thinking about > the Adaptec 2940UW but it is soooo expensive here (aprox. > $330) that I thought about the ASUS PCI-SC875 (Symbios > Logic 53C875) which is much cheaper. Which one performs > better? Both are intelligent bus-master cards. Justin Gibbs has put much more effort into the development of the AH2940 driver than I was able to spend on the NCR/Symbios driver. Last I saw performance and CPU load values for both drivers, they were within a few percent of each other ... > I also know that the ASUS adapter only supports SCSI-2 > so I won't be able to plug a Quantum Atlas II (UW, SCSI-3) > that I am planning to buy. Am I right? There is no SCSI-3, yet, no matter what the vendors try to make you believe :). Don't worry, the Atlas II will work just fine with either the Adaptec or NCR/Symbios cards. > I've heard that from time to time some problems appear > on the Adaptec driver and I've never heard anything similar > about the cards with Symbios chips. But as I know that > wcarchive.cdrom.com is running with 2 Adaptecs 3940 it > shouldn't be a problem, right? Right. > I've also heard about the DPT host adapters, which are > very fast trusting the company that produces these cards. > Anyone with experiences on those? I might go with the > inexpensive ASUS card now and buy a DPT latter instead > of the Adaptec... (FYI this is for my home machine and > I can't spend to much money on it) If it is for your home machine, then the ASUS SC875 will be sufficient. The DPT offers support for all RAID modes, and surely is the better choice, once you approach 100GB total capacity :) Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:21:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02607 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:21:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16295; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd016287; Sat Feb 28 16:21:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA09889; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:21:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802282321.QAA09889@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: lastlog data not change during adduser To: 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id (Thomas Wahyudi) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:21:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Thomas Wahyudi" at Feb 28, 98 07:58:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, I wonder, why when I remove user A uid X and add user B, > user B uid become X. Then I finger user B, hmm the lastlog show that > last login user B is same with user A. Accounting in /var/log/lastlog is done by uid. > Should, lastlog initialize data if user A is removed ? You should probably monotonically increase user ID's to avoid the reuse, if possible. This gets into "wrap regions", etc., for complicated user setups. The problem is that you really do *not* want to destroy the accounting information for the previous user. One possible fix is a generation count. Another possible fix is "user reset" lastlog entry. One way to implement this would be to write a 0 valued time_t for the user to lastlog when a user is deleted, and use this as a flag. You would have to inform all utilities about this, and include the possibility of displaying different generations of users (ie: if you saw three such records, then you would report the current user's accounting records as "fourth generation", and there would need to be some generation selector to things like last, which only applied when a specific user id was specified (ie: for UID 1075, a numberic id should be used, as in 1075:1 for the first instance of 1075's records). Ie: it's a lot easier to just use monotonically increasing UID's and expect that the lastlog will be rolled (aging the old ID out) before it ever becomes an issue. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:25:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03144 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:24:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16826; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd016795; Sat Feb 28 16:24:36 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10147; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:24:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802282324.QAA10147@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:24:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, grog@lemis.com, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at Feb 28, 98 01:10:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. DPT > > > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. > > > > How can that work? > > Something like > - read N RAID blocks from K disks > - compute new checksum for K+1 disks and write as less number > of RAID blocks but each one of bigger size (K+1/K times) > - add empty blocks at the end of RAID in the added space > > What am I wondering is why nobody did that before ? It's so boring > to rebuild the whole RAID if all you want is to add or remove a disk. You would have to remember to grab the blocks to be relocated with the same O(n) randomness as their allocation. 8-). This is exactly analogous to the FFS extension problem discussed in another thread. Why hasn't it been done? Maybe too many programmers and too few computer scientists? 8-). It's a math problem... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 15:30:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04047 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:30:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03989 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA04860; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004856; Sat Feb 28 15:29:30 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA08443; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802282329.PAA08443@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: new flag for ntpdate In-Reply-To: from "ktsin@acm.org" at "Feb 28, 98 07:04:27 pm" To: ktsin@acm.org Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:29:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ktsin@acm.org writes: > I have added a new flag -u to tell ntpdate to use a non-reserved port > ( < 1024 ) so that clients behind a firewall could synchronize with > external NTP servers. > > I wonder if the patches could be merged into the source tree. You should use send-pr(1) as well to make sure your patches don't get forgotten. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 16:01:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07999 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07982 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wjw@surf.IAEhv.nl) Received: from surf.IAEhv.nl (root@surf.IAEhv.nl [194.151.66.2]) by IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02813; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:01:15 +0100 (CET) Received: (from wjw@localhost) by surf.IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03178; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:01:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:01:15 +0100 (MET) From: Willem Jan Withagen Message-Id: <199803010001.BAA03178@surf.IAEhv.nl> To: tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199802280317.UAA25486@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199802280105.RAA18825@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven, the Netherlands Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199802280317.UAA25486@usr06.primenet.com> you write: >> I think it's about time people stop answering the question "can I >> increase the size of an array?" with anything else than "not until we >> have a filesystem to support it." We're just confusing people. > >FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder groups. >There are (minor) fragmentation issues with doing this, but they can >be addressed seperately (most easily with a backup/restore). > >The code to bump the number of cylinder groups up is trivial. I think I would be really helped with code like this. We are going to do RAID-5 for several of our servers. Using both the PCI/DPT controller and or external SCSI controllers. Now if we could grow FileSystems, like Simon suggests, we could easily increment our available disksize as needed. Next to the fact that it would be a nice feature of FreeBSD, which would be nice to market. The reason going for RAID is the reduction of down-time as disks do crash. But this advantage would be an even better reason to do so. Shrinking is something that is very rare for us. >You can't bump the number of cylinder groups down without writing a [Stuff on shrinking the FfS deleted] --WjW -- Internet Access Eindhoven BV., voice: +31-40-2 393 393, data: +31-40-2 439 436 P.O. 928, 5600 AX Eindhoven, The Netherlands Full Internet connectivity for only fl 12.95 a month. Call now, and login as 'new'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 17:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14849 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06692; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:59:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803010059.QAA06692@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Tom cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: using BSDI or Linux shared libs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:19:38 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:59:44 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Can I use shared libs from BSDI (2.1 or 3.1) or Linux? Basically, I > want a native FreeBSD app to be able to load either BSDI or Linux shared > libs. You might be able to use BSD/OS 2.1 libraries. You certainly won't be able to use Linux libraries except under very restricted circumstances. > Openlink Software distributes ODBC drivers for BSDI 2.1, BSDI 3.1, and > Linux. Source for the ODBC manager is available (iODBC), and it demand > loads the appropiate ODBC driver. You should ask them to port to FreeBSD. If they have a BSD/OS port, going to FreeBSD would be trivial. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 17:16:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:16:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16368 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8x5U-0007B7-00; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:58:40 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:58:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: using BSDI or Linux shared libs? In-Reply-To: <199803010059.QAA06692@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Can I use shared libs from BSDI (2.1 or 3.1) or Linux? Basically, I > > want a native FreeBSD app to be able to load either BSDI or Linux shared > > libs. > > You might be able to use BSD/OS 2.1 libraries. You certainly won't be > able to use Linux libraries except under very restricted circumstances. I guess it might be possible to use the linux-dev kit and make everything Linux. > > Openlink Software distributes ODBC drivers for BSDI 2.1, BSDI 3.1, and > > Linux. Source for the ODBC manager is available (iODBC), and it demand > > loads the appropiate ODBC driver. > > You should ask them to port to FreeBSD. If they have a BSD/OS port, > going to FreeBSD would be trivial. Is anyone else interested in database connectivity for FreeBSD? I doubt that they'd do the port for just me. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 17:22:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17152 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:22:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17108 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06769; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:18:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803010118.RAA06769@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Tom cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DPT driver in -stable (was Re: http://www.dpt.com/os2.htm) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:54:42 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:18:50 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Could someone contact DPT so that the FreeBSD is included as an OS > > which supports DPT controllers? > > > > Tnks > > Amancio > > I believe DPT staff hang-out on the freebsd-scsi list... > > Also, it would nice if the DPT driver was actually available in a > released version of FreeBSD first. The 2.2-stable version is great, but > remains uncommitted. If there's a convincing show of hands, and the driver for 2.2 is stable and doesn't impact on the rest of the system, then point me at it. Also, maintainers of non-integrated drivers should check out the script in src/tools/tools/kdrv. This allows you to bundle your driver with an automated install/deinstall script. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 18:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22605 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22544 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:06:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0y8xrG-0007D8-00; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:48:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Mike Smith cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT driver in -stable (was Re: http://www.dpt.com/os2.htm) In-Reply-To: <199803010118.RAA06769@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > > Could someone contact DPT so that the FreeBSD is included as an OS > > > which supports DPT controllers? > > > > > > Tnks > > > Amancio > > > > I believe DPT staff hang-out on the freebsd-scsi list... > > > > Also, it would nice if the DPT driver was actually available in a > > released version of FreeBSD first. The 2.2-stable version is great, but > > remains uncommitted. > > If there's a convincing show of hands, and the driver for 2.2 is stable > and doesn't impact on the rest of the system, then point me at it. Well, there was at one dissenter you contacted me some time ago, and said that the DPT was a bit to invasive. I've eyeballed the code and I don't think so, but I could be wrong. You can pick up a DPT driver patch kit from ftp.simon-shapiro.org Unfortunately, it seems down right now (most likely Simon is re-building his server again). > Also, maintainers of non-integrated drivers should check out the script > in src/tools/tools/kdrv. This allows you to bundle your driver with an > automated install/deinstall script. I wasn't aware of that. That would be a good alternative. The DPT driver could be included in xpermnt at minimum then. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 18:24:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:24:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24882 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA08091; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03908; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id VAA01614; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:29:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:29:16 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199803010229.VAA01614@lakes.dignus.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've gone some considerable distance towards tracking down a crash > that seems to resemble the problem dave's been seeing. Julian - As you can tell - I'm not ready to be 'memorialized' just yet - I'm just *way* behind in mail reading (I seem to float at about 6000 messages behind...) Anyway - I did a quick scan of Subject: lines and found my own name! Kinda surprising! > > Basically, a particular setup (running on several > pieces of hardware) is incapable of doing a full news expire, > We've managed to simplify the case down to a reproducible test, that > involves copying the contents of one disk to a newly newfs'd > partition on another. > > > The exact symptom that we see is that bits in the cylinder group > bitmap get set by "something" after the cg has bee queued for write. > > adding a test confirms that everything is alright immediatly before > the write, but the next time the cg is accessed, there are some extra > bits set. The changes are present on the disk. > It's not hardware.. we've changed everything, but it's reproducible. > with this particular setup.. > > the more I write here the more it sounds like flaky hardware.. > <\hmmmmm> but the patterns seen on disk do not > act like hardware.. Yep - tell me about it... > it looks like a reallocation.. That's the path I went down for a long time; but I couldn't see it. Also, when I added printf()s, of course; it didn't occur. I wondered if something was getting reallocated because of a critical-region issue... > > some file or more likely, directory, is extended, > and the cg summary info is never updated, though the > bitmaps are.. Yes! My reproduction goes similarly - particularly the info being never updated... (i.e. write some trash on the disk; do a newfs - and - whoops; the trash is still there - the 0's were never written...) > > > so the question is: > > does anyone know of any 'covert' paths where the cg structs > (including bitmaps) are accessed other than in ffs_alloc.c? > I'd love to be able to mark the pages concerned 'read-only' when I queue > them for write. that'd catch the other writer,, :) > > anyone have any ideas on how I'd do that for a bdwrite(bp)? It sure does sound like my problem! It's been some time since you sent this. I didn't find any responses - did you happen to get anywhere? Was this in 2.2.x or 3.0? The last 3.0 I tried this with (a snap from last summer) continued to demonstrate the problem... - The not-quite-memorial Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 18:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25884 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25877 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10825; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803010234.SAA10825@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Thomas David Rivers cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:29:16 EST." <199803010229.VAA01614@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:34:30 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That's the path I went down for a long time; but I couldn't see > it. Also, when I added printf()s, of course; it didn't occur. > I wondered if something was getting reallocated because of a critical-region > issue... So set up a trace event queue and put in the nodes whatever pertinent information you want. After the panic trace thru your event queue for debugging info . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 18:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA25992 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:35:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id SAA27984 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:24:37 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:24:37 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199803010224.SAA27984@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cvsup & make 'world' X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I used cvsup for the first time today. The base system is 2.2.5-RELEASE. I used the default 'standard-supfile' in /usr/src/share/examples/cvsup. I believe this should update my source tree to 2.2.5-current - right ? I cd'd to /usr/src and performed a 'make buildworld'. I got a compile error some way into the process. Is it very unusual for the -current tree to not build ? Thanks, joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 19:19:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00212 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00186; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA13997; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:18:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980228191848.30606@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:18:48 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: gam@links.ru Cc: smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISA_PNP for FreeBSD References: <199802281809.VAA02039@orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199802281809.VAA02039@orion.faki-campus.mipt.ru>; from Alexander Gnativ on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 09:09:37PM +0300 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Gnativ scribbled this message on Feb 28: > I am installing subj. for my FreeBSD 2.2.5 > I want to configure my sound card (sb0) and have done all > from README file. But when I begin to compile the new kernel, > process stops with such diagnostic: > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c: At top level: > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c:325: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. well... that isn't the real error... that's just a warning... the real error is earlier... > In the string 325 I found function pnp_configure() > Please, tell me what I must to do in such case. add a void in the param list... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 20:54:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:54:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA09333 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id UAA29880 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:42:57 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:42:57 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199803010442.UAA29880@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: help - make world fails X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I used cvsup to pickup the latest -stable (/usr/src/share/examples/cvsup/stable-supfile). I might be doing something wrong, but it's not obvious to me. Here's where it fails: building shared scsi library (version 2.0) ===> libskey cc -pipe -DPERMIT_CONSOLE -D_SKEY_INTERNAL -I/usr/src/lib/libskey -W -Wall -Werror -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libskey/skeyaccess.c -o skeyaccess.o cc1: warnings being treated as errors /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/stdio.h:366: warning: `__sputc' defined but not used /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:143: warning: `__istype' defined but not used /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:157: warning: `__toupper' defined but not used /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:164: warning: `__tolower' defined but not used *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11888 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:20:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id QAA21012; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803010521.QAA21012@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <199803010442.UAA29880@monk.via.net> from Joe McGuckin at "Feb 28, 98 08:42:57 pm" To: joe@via.net (Joe McGuckin) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:50 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe McGuckin wrote: > cc -pipe -DPERMIT_CONSOLE -D_SKEY_INTERNAL -I/usr/src/lib/libskey -W -Wall -Werror -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libskey/skeyaccess.c -o skeyaccess.o The src/lib/libskey/Makefile has -Werror in CFLAGS. Your build is failing due to the warnings (not errors) that the compiler is generating. Are your header files up-to-date? The CVS log entry that added the "CFLAGS+=-W -Wall -Werror" implies that the library *should* compile cleanly. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:28:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:28:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13976 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA19260; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:27:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id XAA22873; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:27:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980228232753.30793@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:27:53 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Joe McGuckin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <199803010442.UAA29880@monk.via.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803010442.UAA29880@monk.via.net>; from Joe McGuckin on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 08:42:57PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yeah, that error is showing up in a bunch of places. I don't understand why the -Werror switch is in those Makefiles (this is what is blowing it up). Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? Defining something and then not using it isn't that horrid of a thing :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 08:42:57PM -0800, Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I used cvsup to pickup the latest -stable > (/usr/src/share/examples/cvsup/stable-supfile). I might be doing something > wrong, but it's not obvious to me. > > Here's where it fails: > > building shared scsi library (version 2.0) > ===> libskey > cc -pipe -DPERMIT_CONSOLE -D_SKEY_INTERNAL -I/usr/src/lib/libskey -W -Wall -Werror -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libskey/skeyaccess.c -o skeyaccess.o > cc1: warnings being treated as errors > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/stdio.h:366: warning: `__sputc' defined but not used > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:143: warning: `__istype' defined but not used > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:157: warning: `__toupper' defined but not used > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/ctype.h:164: warning: `__tolower' defined but not used > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:35:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15615 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15576 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:35:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA19348; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:35:15 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id XAA23092; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:35:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:35:15 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: John Birrell Cc: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <199803010442.UAA29880@monk.via.net> <199803010521.QAA21012@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803010521.QAA21012@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 04:21:50PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 04:21:50PM +1100, John Birrell wrote: > Joe McGuckin wrote: > > cc -pipe -DPERMIT_CONSOLE -D_SKEY_INTERNAL -I/usr/src/lib/libskey -W -Wall -Werror -I/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libskey/skeyaccess.c -o skeyaccess.o > > The src/lib/libskey/Makefile has -Werror in CFLAGS. Your build is > failing due to the warnings (not errors) that the compiler is > generating. Are your header files up-to-date? Yes they are. I am seeing the same thing, and I checked to make sure that the headers were up-to-date and that my CVS tree was as well. > The CVS log entry that added the "CFLAGS+=-W -Wall -Werror" implies > that the library *should* compile cleanly. > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Well, that may be what's implied, but the errors-from-warnings problem is currently present in a few places, including the skey library and the lpr suite. And, in both, it prevents a make world from working. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:38:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:38:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16266 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id QAA21068; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:40:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Feb 28, 98 11:35:15 pm" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:40:01 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > Well, that may be what's implied, but the errors-from-warnings problem is > currently present in a few places, including the skey library and the lpr > suite. > > And, in both, it prevents a make world from working. Time for Jordan's big stick? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:39:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:39:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fxp0.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA16445 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 25977 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Mar 1998 00:20:20 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-021598 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980228143813.13547@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:20:20 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Satoshi Asami , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Feb-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sat, 28 February 1998 at 3:52:52 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder >>> groups. >>> >>> Patch? >> >> I'll consider doing one; it's a tunefs tweak, really. If I do, though, >> it will probably conflict with the soft updates changes to tunefs, at >> least until they are committed (I thought that was going to happen >> soon?). > > Let me have them as soon as they're ready to test. I can offer > extensible volumes :-) I am still experiencing total system lockup with these (everything frozen and any typing on the keyboard puts the speaker into non-stop long beep. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:42:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:42:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17146 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:41:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA19398; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:41:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id XAA23319; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:41:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:41:46 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: John Birrell Cc: joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 04:40:01PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 04:40:01PM +1100, John Birrell wrote: > Karl Denninger wrote: > > Well, that may be what's implied, but the errors-from-warnings problem is > > currently present in a few places, including the skey library and the lpr > > suite. > > > > And, in both, it prevents a make world from working. > > Time for Jordan's big stick? > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 Well, it was pretty simple for me to fix locally, but it'll come back the next time I check out a full build :-) I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without knowing). I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 21:51:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:51:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20233 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id QAA21954; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:52:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199803010552.QAA21954@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Feb 28, 98 11:41:46 pm" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:52:58 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > knowing). > > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. I'm not seeing problems that a few others are, including NFS. I guess my load isn't high enough. I think we need another few words from John Dyson wrt any bugs he is aware of in his stuff. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 22:11:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23781 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050ndd.san.rr.com (root@dt050ndd.san.rr.com [204.210.31.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23743 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:10:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (dougdougdougdoug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050ndd.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01305; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <34F8FBE6.8DE1C457@san.rr.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:10:46 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE-0228 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger wrote: > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > knowing). You can read the CVS logs without commit access. Check out the CVS repository link on http://www.freebsd.org/support.html. Hope this helps, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:07:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03060 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00116; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd000107; Sun Mar 1 00:07:11 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21114; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:07:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803010707.AAA21114@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:07:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rivers@dignus.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com In-Reply-To: <199803010234.SAA10825@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Feb 28, 98 06:34:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That's the path I went down for a long time; but I couldn't see > > it. Also, when I added printf()s, of course; it didn't occur. > > I wondered if something was getting reallocated because of a critical-region > > issue... > > So set up a trace event queue and put in the nodes whatever pertinent > information you want. After the panic trace thru your event queue > for debugging info . We thought it was a bug in fsck and in the CG code. It turned out to be a longer-than-functional IDE cable. Try using a shorter IDE cable. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02878 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:06:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29795; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:05:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd029764; Sun Mar 1 00:05:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA20939; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:03:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803010703.AAA20939@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:03:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, tlambert@primenet.com In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Feb 28, 98 04:20:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>> * FFS can support increased size through the addition of cylinder > >>> groups. > >>> > >>> Patch? > >> > >> I'll consider doing one; it's a tunefs tweak, really. If I do, though, > >> it will probably conflict with the soft updates changes to tunefs, at > >> least until they are committed (I thought that was going to happen > >> soon?). > > > > Let me have them as soon as they're ready to test. I can offer > > extensible volumes :-) > > I am still experiencing total system lockup with these (everything frozen > and any typing on the keyboard puts the speaker into non-stop long beep. You mean with der Mouse's program? Are you mixing it with anything? Have you shrunk anything, or just grown it? I've done the "grow" thing, on a seperate code base, with good results. Any chance you could be a little less terse with your problem description? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:10:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03558 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:10:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03548 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22889; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd022859; Sun Mar 1 00:10:41 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21269; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:10:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803010710.AAA21269@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:10:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Feb 28, 98 11:41:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. Please clarify here. You mean NFS *client*, right? I've been getting pretty deeply into this code lately, and it's the *client* that freezes up here... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:34:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07725 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01663; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:34:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803010734.CAA01663@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. In-Reply-To: <199803010707.AAA21114@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 1, 98 07:07:07 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:34:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, rivers@dignus.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said: > > We thought it was a bug in fsck and in the CG code. > > It turned out to be a longer-than-functional IDE cable. > > Try using a shorter IDE cable. > Slightly off subject: Even though Ultra-DMA/33 doesn't have higher clockrates than 16MHz EIDE (Mode 4), it seems that the Promise controller and WD drives DO NOT like out-of-spec IDE cables when running Ultra-DMA/33. (Ultra-DMA uses both edges of the clock, so there can be more transitions than EIDE, and the spectrum will be higher in freq, also with more sensitivity to clock skew, due to timing constraints.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:41:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:41:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09611 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:41:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01681; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:41:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803010741.CAA01681@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Feb 28, 98 11:41:46 pm" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:41:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger said: > > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > knowing). > I am NOT super-happy with NFS yet. I have a regression and performance test suite that I run before committing VM code (believe it or not), and NFS doesn't pass a critical test (paging.) It panics the system with an infamous biodone error, and I will try to track it down tomorrow. I am freezing the current state of my VM work, except for bugfixes, and perhaps some threads or AIO things (which are not part of the core system.) Hopefully, we will be stable (with some anecdotal evidence) soon, and I want to track (watch) the VFS layering changes carefully. All of the above will fill my available time. I think that the system is very close to stable again, with the NFS caveat. Once I can solve the (very reproduceable) problem, I will be much happier with NFS. There are also some outstanding bugfixes for NFS, which I am working with in my local tree... -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 28 23:56:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11931 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:56:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from emu.sourcee.com (emu.sourcee.com [199.201.159.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11915; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrice@emu.sourcee.com) Received: (from nrice@localhost) by emu.sourcee.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id CAA26243; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:55:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980301025533.18356@emu.sourcee.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:55:33 -0500 From: Norman C Rice To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Karl Denninger , jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> <199803010741.CAA01681@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199803010741.CAA01681@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:41:21AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:41:21AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Karl Denninger said: > > > > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > > knowing). > > > I am NOT super-happy with NFS yet. I have a regression and performance > test suite that I run before committing VM code (believe it or not), and > NFS doesn't pass a critical test (paging.) It panics the system with > an infamous biodone error, and I will try to track it down tomorrow. > > I am freezing the current state of my VM work, except for bugfixes, > and perhaps some threads or AIO things (which are not part of the > core system.) Hopefully, we will be stable (with some anecdotal > evidence) soon, and I want to track (watch) the VFS layering changes > carefully. All of the above will fill my available time. > > I think that the system is very close to stable again, with the > NFS caveat. Once I can solve the (very reproduceable) problem, > I will be much happier with NFS. There are also some outstanding > bugfixes for NFS, which I am working with in my local tree... Would any of those outstanding ``bug fixes'' resolve the issue with NFS client freezing the system when the server is non-responsive? -- Regards, Norman C. Rice, Jr. > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message