From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 00:37:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29437 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:37:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA29432 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 13258 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Mar 1998 08:37:24 +0000 (GMT) To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 00:02:07 -0800" References: <199803080802.AAA09131@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:37:23 +0100 Message-ID: <13256.889346243@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > HTTP-NG, which is currently under very initial development, will > > almost certainly allow for multiplexed transfers. ie. multiple > > documents multiplexed over a single TCP connection. > > Ugh. Why multiplex over an already-multiplexing protocol? This sounds > like yet another attempt at trying to get around a problem with a new > solution rather than fixing the original one. You should follow the discussion on end2end-interest@isi.edu. Yes, this is the initial reaction of many people, but it may still be a good idea. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 01:05:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02234 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:05:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02223 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:05:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00784 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:05:10 GMT Message-ID: <35025F23.A5BA16A2@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:04:35 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: TuneFS options... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, when I use tunefs what special-device do I tell it to use (I've tried /dev/wd0a, etc.). Do I run tunefs from single-user mode (ie. readonly partitions)? I think I'm missing something here. Thanks, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 01:32:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04769 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 01:32:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18193; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:02:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA17462; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:02:28 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980308200227.08964@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:02:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: TuneFS options... References: <35025F23.A5BA16A2@challenge.isvara.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <35025F23.A5BA16A2@challenge.isvara.net>; from freebsd@isvara.net on Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 09:04:35AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 March 1998 at 9:04:35 +0000, freebsd@isvara.net wrote: > Hi, > when I use tunefs what special-device do I tell it to use (I've > tried /dev/wd0a, etc.). Use the raw device, in this case /dev/rwd0a. > Do I run tunefs from single-user mode (ie. readonly partitions)? You can run tunefs on any unmounted file system. Unfortunately, that makes it almost impossible to run it against the root file system, which appears to be your intention. To do that, you'll have to boot from floppy and use the fixit floppy. For the others, single-user is a good idea. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 03:10:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13455 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 03:10:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13428 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 03:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA28818 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 03:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd028810; Sun Mar 8 03:04:54 1998 Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 03:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DPT COMMITED in 2.2, please test Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG as it says.. I've commited the DPT into 2.2 please test... you need options DPTOPT in your config file until it's been proven to work, then that option should not be needed. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 07:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 07:42:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07333 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 07:42:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id IAA20732; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:42:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05393; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:31:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:31:21 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: <199803080802.AAA09131@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > this regard (ie. have specific HTTP-transmit-file system calls > > > everywhere)? > > > > Now, if you want to talk about HTTP-transmit-file calls and things being > > specialized for just one protocol, I was actually joking about that > > earlier today. > > > > HTTP-NG, which is currently under very initial development, will > > almost certainly allow for multiplexed transfers. ie. multiple > > documents multiplexed over a single TCP connection. > > Ugh. Why multiplex over an already-multiplexing protocol? This sounds > like yet another attempt at trying to get around a problem with a new > solution rather than fixing the original one. No, there are very valid reasons for this. With HTTP/1.0, the web consists of many short flows. TCP's congestion control doesn't really handle them very well because of how short they are, plus you have too much overhead in terms of latency from establishing connections. With HTTP/1.1 and persistent and pipelined connections, it is better and almost ideal from a total transfer time point of view. However, total transfer time isn't what is important for web browsers: it is time to view. There are a lot of things involved here that I won't go into; eg. you can't have small responses stuck behind a large one. Simultaneous short connections are bad for the network in terms of congestion control, especially when you get to the point (which can be all to easy with a slow link and some dumb clients) where you have enough connections and a big enough MSS to result in extremely high numbers of unnecessary retransmissions. To get around this, you have to lower the MSS which isn't a good thing. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 07:42:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 07:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07377 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 07:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id IAA20734; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05401; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:38:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:38:38 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > Let me put it this way: how else do you propose to do copy avoidance to > > avoid an extra copy going into the mbufs? The data must go from the > > buffer cache to the network without any copy other than to the network > > card itself. Why is your other method of doing this any less of a hack? > [...] > I would like to add here that in FreeBSD's unified VM/Buffer cache, > a mmapped file IS the buffer cache > so that a send() from an mmapped file IS copying direct fromt he buffer > cache. Ther eis ONE copy.. that from the buffer cache, into the mbuf. But the point is that you still have to copy it into the mbuf, you still have to use the memory for the mbuf, etc. This uses more CPU and memory bandwidth, increases memory use, and means you may have to chop things up smaller to avoid using too much memory for mbufs. To avoid that copy, you have two choices. First, you can play around with copy avoidance for mmap() then send() or write(). This can be done with COW, or page flipping. See the HP paper for more details on this approach. Doing it this way is really an ugly hack and there are numerous difficulties that crop up, making it less than desirable. Or, you can use sendfile() and code it so it doesn't have to copy into mbufs. This is easier because of where the data is coming from. Now, doing this right is dependent on having the right networking hardware and networking drivers. It is, however, a very worthwhile feature from a performance standpoint and more and more other OSes are adding it. > > (assuming that the data got into the memory via DMA in the first place..) > you may need to have a subprocess go through and tuch all the pages to > get them into ram first.. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 11:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25981 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01605; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:56:56 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199803081756.RAA01605@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird problem (lost packets) in iijppp In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 05:09:21 +0100." <199803080409.FAA04388@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 17:56:56 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Would you be able to try this with the ppp from -current, -stable or > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian ? > > downloading the files right now... in any case i did some more tests > yesterday night, and every time i have a lost reply the "miss" or > "uncompress" (depending on the direction) counts below increase: > > PPP ON prova> show compress > Out: 780 (compress) / 909 (total) 14 (miss) / 300 (search) > In: 819 (compress), 107 (uncompress) 0 (error), 0 (tossed) > > I have no idea if this only happens with ICMP packets or also with > regular traffic. This sounds like a compression dictionary problem. I haven't read the Predictor rfc myself (yet), but certainly the DEFLATE rfc requires that incoming packets that are uncompressed are passed through the dictionary to keep it in sync with the sender. pred.c doesn't do anything with these packets. I got your other mail that says it doesn't happen with the latest version. Can you try the latest version with `deny deflate' and `disable deflate' ? This will force pred1 compression again :-) > Speaking of ppp, i was wondering if you are also looking at the memory > allocation used in the program. It seems to do a few malloc() on each packets > (one for the header, one for the payload... and this appears kind of > useless since the queues are short anyways and using a fixed array > would be probably much more efficient. This area needs looking at. The two mallocs (one for the mbuf and one for the data) can be consolidated into one, but the queues may get quite long. It's possible that packets may be sent that are blocked by the dial filter, but not by the output filter. These packets must sit in the output queue 'till the link is brought up. This isn't working correctly in the MP branch (where development is currently being done). I probably also need to time-out some of these queued packets.... > Also, would you like to help in implementing the 'preemption' > feature that i had in mind ? The basic idea would be to define some > negotiable mechanism (e.g. HDLC_ESC+something) to suspend/resume > transmission of a packet when there is a higher-priority one. This > would be used to improve interactive response when you also have > background bulk traffic. Of course one has to be careful in the > interaction with the "pred1" compression. Currently, there are two output queue sets, one IP queue set and one modem queue set. Each queue set consists of two queues, a fast one (interactive traffic in the IP set, non-NCP traffic in the modem set) and a slow one. Stuff is compressed just before moving from the IP set into the slow modem queue. Traffic from the slow modem queue is moved into the fast modem queue just before a CCP RESET (and should probably just be dropped), but otherwise is always sent directly from the slow queue. When stuff is read from the modem queue set, the packet is written in one go to the device. Short writes just cause the the written bit of the mbuf to be removed. This `in progress' mbuf is the `out' part of `struct physical' in the MP branch. This is my idea of what you're talking about: If we want to be able to split `in progress' packets, AFAICT we'd have to do shorter writes to the device instead of mbuf::cnt bytes. We'd also never be able to compress this interactive traffic, without having a separate compression stream for interactive traffic. We'd have to agree with the other side to use some escape sequence to say "here's a fast packet" (probably using a new LCP option), and the other side would have to be willing to do the right thing with this packet with respect to compression. Is this what you have in mind ? Wouldn't we be better off suffering the overhead of a smaller MTU ? After all, with VJ compression, there isn't that much overhead in sending out shorter packets. > This mechanism could also be useful (assuming it's not already there) > with parallel ppp connections, since it would allow you to spread a > packet on a number of parallel links. This, I reckon will be a whole programming exercise in itself. I haven't finished cleaning up all the global/static stuff in ppp yet. When that's done, I have to implement the MP LCP stuff and plug in the logical link layer (shouldn't actually be that difficult). The problem with re-sequencing stuff will be the same though (slightly compounded by the fact that there's a sequence number involved too). > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 11:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01190 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:54:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03166; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:54:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199803081954.NAA03166@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Marc Slemko cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:38:38 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:54:22 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > >> > >> > Let me put it this way: how else do you propose to do copy avoidance to >> > avoid an extra copy going into the mbufs? The data must go from the >> > buffer cache to the network without any copy other than to the network >> > card itself. Why is your other method of doing this any less of a hack? >> [...] >> I would like to add here that in FreeBSD's unified VM/Buffer cache, >> a mmapped file IS the buffer cache >> so that a send() from an mmapped file IS copying direct fromt he buffer >> cache. Ther eis ONE copy.. that from the buffer cache, into the mbuf. > >But the point is that you still have to copy it into the mbuf, you still >have to use the memory for the mbuf, etc. This uses more CPU and memory >bandwidth, increases memory use, and means you may have to chop things up >smaller to avoid using too much memory for mbufs. And unless you introduce a special hack for each case that comes up, >To avoid that copy, you have two choices. First, you can play around with >copy avoidance for mmap() then send() or write(). This can be done with >COW, or page flipping. See the HP paper for more details on this >approach. Doing it this way is really an ugly hack and there are numerous >difficulties that crop up, making it less than desirable. Where is page flipping needed here? There is no data coming from user space with the mmap+aiosend.. >Or, you can use sendfile() and code it so it doesn't have to copy into >mbufs. This is easier because of where the data is coming from. > >Now, doing this right is dependent on having the right networking hardware >and networking drivers. It is, however, a very worthwhile feature from a >performance standpoint and more and more other OSes are adding it. > >> >> (assuming that the data got into the memory via DMA in the first place..) >> you may need to have a subprocess go through and tuch all the pages to >> get them into ram first.. >> >> > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:01:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02407 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25061; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:02:28 GMT Message-ID: <013b01bd4acc$69d39660$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" , "David Kelly" Cc: Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:57:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG why would we do that? instead we should focus on the wine project, integrating win32 to freebsd would just bloat it with useless calls that would never be used in normal u*ix apps. having wine as a seperate app would be the best choice, wine support should be important to freebsd. -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Terry Lambert To: David Kelly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? >> > Wandering , if we can get a grant from the goverment to support the SMP >> > project or to support FreeBSD ? >> >> I think you'd stand a better chance with the US Gov if you sold your >> pitch as a free and secure replacement for Windows. NT "security" was >> pitched hard and only now is the true situation being realized. >> >> Problem is to replace Windows you would also have to replace Word and >> Excel. These days government computers are essentially Microsoft Office >> platforms, and Microsoft Office is essentially the OS. > >Get a grant for Win32 on FreeBSD first. 8-). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:07:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03298 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id NAA27800; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07322; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:04:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:04:54 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Chris Csanady cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: <199803081954.NAA03166@friley585.res.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Chris Csanady wrote: > >To avoid that copy, you have two choices. First, you can play around with > >copy avoidance for mmap() then send() or write(). This can be done with > >COW, or page flipping. See the HP paper for more details on this > >approach. Doing it this way is really an ugly hack and there are numerous > >difficulties that crop up, making it less than desirable. > > Where is page flipping needed here? There is no data coming from user > space with the mmap+aiosend.. If you are sending, you need COW to avoid the copy. If you are receiving (which I didn't really talk about, which SendFile() doesn't help, and which I don't care much about for web server performance, so you are correct that it doesn't apply for the send case) you can use page flipping to make the data appear in the application buffer without copying. Note that both of these require the app to take care with how it dirties the buffers afterwards. eg. an application has to be careful not to reuse the send buffer until after the transport layer is done with it. This is _NOT_ typical of most TCP servers. If it doesn't do it right, you can end up with more overhead from trying to do copy avoidance than just not doing it. This is one reason why HPUX requires you to explicitly enable the option with setsockopt() if your application wants to use it and why sendfile() is conceptually cleaner, both in userspace and in the kernel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04337 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04332 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22595; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803082011.MAA22595@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: "Terry Lambert" , "David Kelly" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:57:22 EST." <013b01bd4acc$69d39660$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:11:27 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, there was company dedicated with a product similar to wine and they required just a little push which we didn't give them. Forgot which company it was however I am sure that Terry knows who I am talking about . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04715 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04705 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15603 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:15:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:15:05 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make world problems... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I experienced the following problem on a 2.2-STABLE machine as I did a make world the past 2 days: install: /usr/share/locale/sl_SI.ISO_8859-2/LC_TIME: No such file of directory The fix was simple enough, make the directory /usr/share/locale/sl_SI.ISO_8859-2, should not part of the installworld be to setup directories and symlinks though? -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:19:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05538 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03298; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:17:49 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199803082017.OAA03298@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 cc: Marc Slemko , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:54:22 CST." <199803081954.NAA03166@friley585.res.iastate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 14:17:49 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: >> >>> > >>> > Let me put it this way: how else do you propose to do copy avoidance to >>> > avoid an extra copy going into the mbufs? The data must go from the >>> > buffer cache to the network without any copy other than to the network >>> > card itself. Why is your other method of doing this any less of a hack? >>> [...] >>> I would like to add here that in FreeBSD's unified VM/Buffer cache, >>> a mmapped file IS the buffer cache >>> so that a send() from an mmapped file IS copying direct fromt he buffer >>> cache. Ther eis ONE copy.. that from the buffer cache, into the mbuf. >> >>But the point is that you still have to copy it into the mbuf, you still >>have to use the memory for the mbuf, etc. This uses more CPU and memory >>bandwidth, increases memory use, and means you may have to chop things up >>smaller to avoid using too much memory for mbufs. > >And unless you introduce a special hack for each case that comes up, Ugh.. Major slip of the mouse here, let me finish this up. I don't believe that this can be done with no extra copies without the sendfile(). Network cards impose way too many restrictions on memory, and alignment for this to be possible otherwise. Unless the buffer cache knows in advance which net interface the buffer is leaving through, this would not be possible. But then, you would make this data useless for much else. I do not see a generic way to accomplish this short of tangling all sorts of things, and using hacks such as a sendfile(). :( Not that I think this should be done or not.. I'll leave that to someone else. :) Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:31:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:31:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07819 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:31:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16903; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:31:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:31:04 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT COMMITED in 2.2, please test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > as it says.. > I've commited the DPT into 2.2 > please test... > you need options DPTOPT in your config file > until it's been proven to work, then that option should not be needed. > Pardon my naive'ty, but what is DPT? -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07962 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id NAA28534; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07474; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:30:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:30:25 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: Chris Csanady cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: <199803082017.OAA03298@friley585.res.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Chris Csanady wrote: > > > > >>On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > >> > >>> > > >>> > Let me put it this way: how else do you propose to do copy avoidance to > >>> > avoid an extra copy going into the mbufs? The data must go from the > >>> > buffer cache to the network without any copy other than to the network > >>> > card itself. Why is your other method of doing this any less of a hack? > >>> [...] > >>> I would like to add here that in FreeBSD's unified VM/Buffer cache, > >>> a mmapped file IS the buffer cache > >>> so that a send() from an mmapped file IS copying direct fromt he buffer > >>> cache. Ther eis ONE copy.. that from the buffer cache, into the mbuf. > >> > >>But the point is that you still have to copy it into the mbuf, you still > >>have to use the memory for the mbuf, etc. This uses more CPU and memory > >>bandwidth, increases memory use, and means you may have to chop things up > >>smaller to avoid using too much memory for mbufs. > > > >And unless you introduce a special hack for each case that comes up, > > Ugh.. Major slip of the mouse here, let me finish this up. > > I don't believe that this can be done with no extra copies without the > sendfile(). Network cards impose way too many restrictions on memory, It is difficult, yes. It is, however, possible. For example, mmap and write on Solaris 2.6 with their OC-12 ATM card (I think that's the one) will do zero copy if you have things aligned right and do things in the right sized chunks. HPUX has been able to do it for a long time with one of their FDDI cards, and possibly other NICs by now. Using sendfile() doesn't make it magically possible either, just makes it a bit easier and cleaner, both for the application and the kernel. There are still ugly parts to deal with. However, this _is_ a worthwhile thing to be able to do. It does make a significant difference in performance on other systems that I have seen benchmarked, and I see no reason to think FreeBSD shouldn't be the same because it does things they same way. Yes, it is dependent on the NIC. There may not be the demand for this in FreeBSD required to make it happen. Unless some company really needs it and pays to have it implemented, I'm not expecting it to really happen. It is, however, one of the useful features that I do desire in a kernel for highest-performance web serving and which Apache 2.0 will almost certainly be able to take advantage of. > and alignment for this to be possible otherwise. Unless the buffer > cache knows in advance which net interface the buffer is leaving through, > this would not be possible. But then, you would make this data useless > for much else. I do not see a generic way to accomplish this short of > tangling all sorts of things, and using hacks such as a sendfile(). :( > > Not that I think this should be done or not.. I'll leave that to someone > else. :) > > Chris > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:34:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08147 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA08142 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA05356; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:04:12 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803081904.UAA05356@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: weird problem (lost packets) in iijppp To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:04:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803081756.RAA01605@awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 8, 98 05:56:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This sounds like a compression dictionary problem. I haven't read right, i also suspected that... but i wonder what has changed between 2.2.1 and your code in this respect... > I got your other mail that says it doesn't happen with the latest > version. Can you try the latest version with `deny deflate' and > `disable deflate' ? This will force pred1 compression again :-) will try tomorrow > This area needs looking at. The two mallocs (one for the mbuf and > one for the data) can be consolidated into one, but the queues may > get quite long. It's possible that packets may be sent that are > blocked by the dial filter, but not by the output filter. These doesn't make much sense to keep such long queues, since most things will be retransmitted in 5-10s anyways because of timeouts. more on this later... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 12:38:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:38:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.91.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09297 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09342; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:34:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Berlin To: "David E. Cross" cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT COMMITED in 2.2, please test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Distributed Processing Technology They make scsi controllers. Damn good at raid. My ISA DPT 2021 kicked the crap out of most PCI cards. On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > as it says.. > > I've commited the DPT into 2.2 > > please test... > > you need options DPTOPT in your config file > > until it's been proven to work, then that option should not be needed. > > > > Pardon my naive'ty, but what is DPT? > > -- > David Cross > UNIX Systems Administrator > GE Corporate R&D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 13:10:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12809 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:10:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12775 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25773; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:12:06 GMT Message-ID: <025b01bd4ad6$245a5b00$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Vinay Bannai" , Subject: Re: Where is OS-BS? Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:58:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG this isn't a -hackers question but anyway: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/tools -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Vinay Bannai To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 8:37 PM Subject: Where is OS-BS? >Can anyone point me the location of OS-BS? URL perhaps? Source code? > >Thanks >Vinay >-- >Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 14:39:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21602 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:39:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21376 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA28448 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:36:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA09505; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:06:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980308230610.A9455@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:06:10 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: TuneFS options... Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Hackers References: <35025F23.A5BA16A2@challenge.isvara.net> <19980308200227.08964@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <19980308200227.08964@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 08:02:27PM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4121 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Greg Lehey: > You can run tunefs on any unmounted file system. Unfortunately, that > makes it almost impossible to run it against the root file system, When in single-user, you can tunefs / and reboot immediately since it is read-only. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar 1 18:50:39 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 15:02:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25011 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24969 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:01:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05424; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:01:13 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199803082301.XAA05424@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird problem (lost packets) in iijppp In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:04:12 +0100." <199803081904.UAA05356@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:01:13 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This sounds like a compression dictionary problem. I haven't read > > right, i also suspected that... but i wonder what has changed > between 2.2.1 and your code in this respect... [.....] Nothing, but DEFLATE is preferred over PREDICTOR1..... I suspect you got deflate compression with the new version. > cheers > luigi -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 15:03:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25263 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29621; Sun, 8 Mar 98 18:02:48 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA29278; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:02:25 -0500 Message-Id: <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:02:25 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs & less bug (process disowned) Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000901bd3c41$d704f8d0$9ba9a68f@pest.us.dell.com> <19980220211135.62939@ct.picker.com> <19980221114220.59907@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980221114220.59907@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Feb 21, 1998 at 11:42:20AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert: |According to Randall Hopper: |> Any thoughts? | |The problem is that emacs plays with SIGIO (^G) and due to a bug in /bin/sh |(used to run emacs from Mutt), it makes emacs detach. There even now an |option for mutt to use another shell. | |Run configure with | | --with-exec-shell=SHELL Specify alternate shell (ONLY if /bin/sh is broken) | |Details are a bit muddy in my memory but that should do it. Thanks. (sorry about the time lag) Using /bin/csh clears it right up. BTW, do you know if the /bin/sh SIGIO-related bug has been reported and/or fixed in -current? Thanks, Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 15:33:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Empire.Net (Empire.Net [208.223.32.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29997 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjwhite@empire.net) Received: from SAFIRE (Nashua-ppp39.Empire.Net [208.223.32.139]) by Empire.Net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA32622 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:29:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:29:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803082329.SAA32622@Empire.Net> From: "Christopher J. White" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD routing code Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm interested in the possiblity of using BSD code as the IP forwarding engine, interfaced to commercial versions of routing protocols such as OSPF. This is all using VxWorks on a PowerPC. The target is a rather high performance router capable of upto 10,000 routes. I've heard that BSDs TCP/IP is just about the fastest around, so I thought I'd take a look at it. A thread from about two years ago indicated that BSD as a router is certainly possible, but this seemed to be system running the full BSD operating system, not just the router code. Has anyone ripped out just the BSD routing code to build a router on top of another operating system? How much effort is involved? I'm new to BSD code, but on the face of it, the routing code seems pretty tightly coupled to the kernel. Any thoughts? ...cj Christohper J. White To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 15:46:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02540 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25007; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:45:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803082345.PAA25007@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Christopher J. White" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD routing code In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:29:45 EST." <199803082329.SAA32622@Empire.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:45:49 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think that there is an OSKit out in the net which has taken different features from OSes. I am not involved in this effort. A friend of mine wants to use OSKit for a router thingy and I just told him to grab FreeBSD and hack it down to his needs. Amancio >From: Jay Lepreau >To: oskit-users@cs.cs.utah.edu >Subject: OSKit release story >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 04:56:26 MST > >Hi folks, it's been a long time. This message is to do four things. >Tell you (yet again!) that the OSKit will be released soon. >Give you an idea of why it has taken so long. >Give you an idea of the licensing. >Give you an idea of what will be in the release. > >I said we'd release the OSKit last year, several times. None happened. >So I stopped saying anything. I believe it's now close enough to say >"soon" -- I believe in the next couple of weeks. Although we've made a >lot of additions and fixes to both the code and the documentation since >then-- many mentioned below-- those weren't the main reasons for the >delay. The main problem was working out licensing terms acceptable to us >on the team, to the university, and to its lawyers. For the record, most >of the technical people in the team just wanted to push it out any old >free way. Personally, I find this kind of stuff distasteful, and >compounded by all the other demands on my time, didn't devote enough >concentrated effort to it. > >Well, it's finally pretty much settled. The licensing will be GPL for >those parts which encapsulate GPL'ed code, and de facto GPL for the rest >(modeled after Bostic's DB2.0 and McKusick's soft update licenses). A >user can negotiate with the University a different license for the latter. >Note that although University officialdom has ok'ed the concept, the >final wording hasn't been cleared yet. > >I do not intend to get into a discussion of these issues. This message is >to let you know what's coming, and to excuse the technical Flux people of >guilt > >So, putting administrivia behind us, on to lists. What's new? > >Components: >NetBSD ffs filesystem >Linux filesystems (ext2, vfat, msdos, iso9660 tested) >fsread library: simple rdonly fs support for booting (ffs, extfs, minix) >FreeBSD tcp/ip >bootp >address map mgr library: handles generalized "address maps" with attributes >Linux device drivers, 2.0.29 (ethernet, scsi, ide) >limited FreeBSD dev drivers, 2.1.7.1(virtual cons, ps/2&bus mice, serial lines) >limited display support (S3 only) >"WIMPi" window mgr derived from pre-release Scout WIMP derived from Bell MGR >device tree support for slipping release dates so egregiously. (Late software-- how novel!) >pthreads subset and threads building block package (Keppel's quickthreads) >libm >lots of additions and improvements to most low-level and function libs >sets of COM interfaces for i/o, files/dirs/filesystems, networking >most big components with small interfaces are encapsulated as COM objects >lots more Posix support, e.g. select > >Unintegrated but useful stuff: >patches to Xlib to support OSKit X clients > >Apps: >DoomOS -- but no sound right now >netboot: load a file from an NFS server and boot it >Lots of simple example programs >(Unfortunately the Kaffe port isn't quite ready) > >Doc: >Up to a frightening 622 pages. Luckily I think you can often >just be guided by the examples, using the doc mainly for reference. > >Jay Lepreau >Flux Project, University of Utah > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 16:16:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06357; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18605; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:16:20 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199803090016.VAA18605@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: VM/Buffer cache sizing... (e.g. for serving NFS) In-Reply-To: <199803070313.WAA00262@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Mar 6, 98 10:13:34 pm" To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:16:19 -0300 (EST) Cc: ccsanady@iastate.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(John S. Dyson) // There are two kinds of caching in FreeBSD, (write-back) and // (write-through, read) caching. Note that the write-back caching // is limited to a reasonable size (to keep the disk from being // overwhelmed by pending write requests), but the other cache // is all of memory (including .text and mmapped files.) The two // caches are physically the same and totally coherent, but logically // slightly different. FreeBSD will not sandbag your disk subsystem // with pending write requests. This design keeps the 'sync' command // from freezing your system :-). Let me try to understand. The write-back cache is has as small timeout, after which it starts writing. After writing, those pages are sent to the write-through cache, in case they are used again. If you would wait for sync() or for a memory leak to start writing, all those writes would compete in time without need. Also, system stabilty would worse because more data is kept desnecessarily in memory for more time. Is this the point ? A question somewhat related: in top(8), what's the diffence between cache and buffer memory ? I've read that active memory is also used for cacheing, so how can we measure if a machine would perform better with more memory for cacheing ? TIA, Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 16:26:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA07643 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00989; Sun, 8 Mar 98 19:25:49 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA29591; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:25:25 -0500 Message-Id: <19980308192525.40528@ct.picker.com> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:25:25 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: ainvar@enteract.com, Daniel Berlin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CD burners: recommendations? Mail-Followup-To: ainvar@enteract.com, Daniel Berlin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980306144453.36162@freebie.lemis.com> <19980307113559.50298@enteract.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980307113559.50298@enteract.com>; from ainvar@enteract.com on Sat, Mar 07, 1998 at 11:35:59AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ainvar@enteract.com: |On Thu, Mar 05, 1998 at 11:17:13PM -0500, Daniel Berlin wrote: |> MP6200s from Ricoh. |> I've gotten that thing to work on every OS known to man. |> And some known only to Aliens (IE Linux for the 3BX$#&@!*#&!@# (it's |> unpronouncable in your hoo-man languages)) |> --DAn | |Really? I haven't been able to accomplish anything with my IDE |version of this drive.... | |FreeBSD doesn't know it. | |The Windows 95 software they include doesn't support Rockridge |extensions, which seems to be required if you want to make a CD |with long filenames (a FreeBSD CD, for example..) Guess someone else mentioned that their expertise is in SCSI. I've cooked a few RockRidge disks (one being a FreeBSD SNAPshot CD actually :-) on the SCSI vers of this driver. Generated the cooked RockRidge FS image using 'mkisofs' in FreeBSD and then used a raw (well, cooked) image writer in Windoze to slap it on the CDR. I don't have experience with writing the raw images in FreeBSD (as the drive belongs to a friend, and I didn't want to generate coasters trying to figure it out). Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 17:45:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18229 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10242; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd010224; Sun Mar 8 18:45:10 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12288; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:45:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803090145.SAA12288@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:45:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, tlambert@primenet.com, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803082011.MAA22595@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 8, 98 12:11:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, there was company dedicated with a product similar to wine > and they required just a little push which we didn't give them. > > Forgot which company it was however I am sure that Terry knows > who I am talking about . Willows. The problem with this product is that it's commercial, and targetted at big UNIX. The out of the box cost for FreeBSD + Willows would exceed the out of the box cost for Windows95. The governement is generally willing to give grants in order to support work that results in them not requiring sole-source justification documents on contracts. If you watched any of the hearings on C-SPAN, or saw Bill on Charlie Rose that night, trying to spin the monopoly issue, you'd think that maybe Bill himself would support an effort. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 17:55:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19902 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07098; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd007077; Sun Mar 8 18:53:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12797; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:53:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803090153.SAA12797@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:53:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: marcs@znep.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803080416.FAA04413@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Mar 8, 98 05:16:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > A sendfile() (eg. HPUX 11.x) or TransmitFile (eg. WinNT) system call. > > The key features are: > > - it can transmit from an arbitrary start position and an > > arbitrary length. Sending starting from the current position > > why do you want it to be a syscall ? Can't you mmap() the file and then > issue a large write() to save the copy ? (and having AIO might also > save you from using a separate thread...) To save the copy from the backing object to the mbuf, I'm betting. A lot of NT products use TransmitFile() to avoid the overhead involves in the way most WinSock implementations operate (the last NT product I worked on used this, in fact). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:15:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22672 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24448; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:13:08 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Alfred Perlstein" , "Terry Lambert" , "David Kelly" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 12:11:27 PST." <199803082011.MAA22595@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:13:07 -0800 Message-ID: <24443.889409587@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, there was company dedicated with a product similar to wine > and they required just a little push which we didn't give them. Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. Sorry for the rampant pessimism but I've watched that project for going on 3 years now and I think I could grow old and die waiting for it to bear any real fruit. They bit off more than they could chew and it wouldn't be the first time somebody's done that. At this point, I'd say it'd be better to simply work on making BOCHS perform well and forget WINE ever existed. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:15:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22676 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:15:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24478; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:14:42 -0800 (PST) To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make world problems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:15:05 EST." Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:14:42 -0800 Message-ID: <24475.889409682@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I experienced the following problem on a 2.2-STABLE machine as I did a > make world the past 2 days: > > install: /usr/share/locale/sl_SI.ISO_8859-2/LC_TIME: No such file of > directory Things like this will pop up from time to time - you need to rerun the mtree rules in order to create the correct directory structure: mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:17:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:17:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23007 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23886; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd023870; Sun Mar 8 19:17:20 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13906; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:17:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803090217.TAA13906@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:17:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <013b01bd4acc$69d39660$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> from "Alfred Perlstein" at Mar 8, 98 02:57:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > why would we do that? instead we should focus on the wine project, > integrating win32 to freebsd would just bloat it with useless calls that > would never be used in normal u*ix apps. > > having wine as a seperate app would be the best choice, wine support should > be important to freebsd. Last time I checked, WINE didn't really run WIN32 applications all that well, and required components form C:\WINDOWS from a DOS machine to function (mostly DLL's). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:28:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26069 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25917; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13095; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd013074; Sun Mar 8 19:27:56 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14706; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:27:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803090227.TAA14706@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:27:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, tlambert@primenet.com, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <24443.889409587@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 8, 98 06:13:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a > Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC > from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for > the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people > forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. > Sorry for the rampant pessimism but I've watched that project for > going on 3 years now and I think I could grow old and die waiting for > it to bear any real fruit. They bit off more than they could chew and > it wouldn't be the first time somebody's done that. It's not so much that as they bit off the wrong thing. The were doing Windows 3.1 calls when Win32 was already out. They also have a terrible metric for completeness of interfaces in the case of a failure, where if they have implemented N out of M interfaces, and M >> N, they report that they support (N/(N+1))* 100 % of the required interfaces. This makes things look more complete than they are, but it also means that it makes the project look like it's never making any progress. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:35:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:35:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27532 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:34:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14838; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014818; Sun Mar 8 19:12:01 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13723; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:11:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803090211.TAA13723@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance To: marcs@znep.com Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:11:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc Slemko" at Mar 7, 98 11:12:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think so. Trying to do anything else is an ugly hack. See the HP > paper I mentioned for some of the details on why. > > Let me put it this way: how else do you propose to do copy avoidance to > avoid an extra copy going into the mbufs? The data must go from the > buffer cache to the network without any copy other than to the network > card itself. Why is your other method of doing this any less of a hack? Put the header in a page by itself and butt it up against the data. We did this for the Pathworks for VMS (NetWare) product. The copy to the card buffer is gathered. Basically, you are saving a direct reference to the mbuf by using an indirect reference to the data you want to send in the buffer cache (or in the VM, more correctly). I don't see why you couldn't do this in the mmap/write case, frankly, without needing to use a "TransmitFile" type operation. In either case, you would need to modify the networking so that buffers could be accessed by indirect reference, and usage counts are done appropriately on copy-complete/DMA complete (depending on how the data gets gathered to the network card). The *one* thing you will save is per-write user to kernel address translation. To get this, you will add the complication of needing to (potentially) take a page fault on the backing vp for the file to get more pages to send, if the whole thing isn't in core. You could do this in the write(2) case by having a faulting uio routing (uiofault instead of uiomove?). You would also ned a callback function to unlock the pages after the DMA/copy -- you couldn't simply release things. > Yes, although I have heard somewhat convincing arguments that on hardware > with good enough support for context switching between threads, you don't > actually gain that much (if anything) from AIO over just creating more > threads. I'm not really convinced though, and it is highly dependent on > how the OS implements that stuff. You would need quantum-thread-group-affinity to beat AIO. Specifically, if I made a blocking operation on a kernel thread after using 1/3 of my quantum, I'd want the remaining 2/3rd's to go to another kernel thread within my process (thread group), in order to save the page mapping change overhead part of the context switch. This leads to all sorts of starvation issues, etc., which can be dealt with, but aren't easy. You can get similar performance from using user space threads in combination with AIO, without hving to implement the affinity. For SMP, there are additional L1 cache issues. You want thread CPU affinity so you don't blow out your L1 cache acessing thread local storage, and you want process CPU affinity so you don't blow it out accessing heap data. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 18:45:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (root@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29382; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA28384; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:27:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make world problems... In-Reply-To: <24475.889409682@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I experienced the following problem on a 2.2-STABLE machine as I did a > > make world the past 2 days: > > > > install: /usr/share/locale/sl_SI.ISO_8859-2/LC_TIME: No such file of > > directory > > Things like this will pop up from time to time - you need to rerun the > mtree rules in order to create the correct directory structure: > > mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr I watcxhed the make installworld run, and it appeared to do this for me, but *after* everything else ran... (or maybe before, in which case the mtree rules were not correct), I do remember seing make run it... I will track down where. -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 19:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09030 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:19:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-28.comnet.ca [206.75.140.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08872; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 19:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0yBt55-000833C; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:18:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) Subject: Weird SCSI timeout problem To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:18:22 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am quite concerned about a weird timeout problem I just had. Could it feasibly cause corruption of my ccd0? sd1, sd2 and sd3 comprise ccd0, interleave 32 and flag 0x02. I am using an adaptec 2740A controller in a 486DX2/66. It seems to work great, just installed it about 6 hours ago, except this just happened during a recursive copy of /usr/ports to ccd0. I am not signed on to the scsi list, so please include mail reply... Thanks in advance! Tom Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Sun Mar 8 17:19:20 EST 1998 tom@tomqnx.tomqnx.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/TOMQNX CPU: i486 DX2 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x435 Stepping=5 Features=0x3 real memory = 50331648 (49152K bytes) avail memory = 46338048 (45252K bytes) eisa0: Probing for devices on the EISA bus ahc0: at 0x2c00-0x2cff irq 15 on eisa0 slot 2 ahc0: aic7770 >= Rev E, Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 4 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM3200S 300N" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 3067MB (6281856 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 6810 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 184 sectors/track (ahc0:1:0): "HP 2213A C938" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 633MB (1296512 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 1457 cyls, 16 heads, and an average 55 sectors/track (ahc0:2:0): "HP 2213A C938" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 sd2(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 633MB (1296512 512 byte sectors) sd2(ahc0:2:0): with 1457 cyls, 16 heads, and an average 55 sectors/track (ahc0:3:0): "HP 2213A C938" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 sd3(ahc0:3:0): Direct-Access 633MB (1296512 512 byte sectors) sd3(ahc0:3:0): with 1457 cyls, 16 heads, and an average 55 sectors/track (ahc0:4:0): "HP CD-Writer 6020 1.07" type 5 removable SCSI 2 worm0(ahc0:4:0): Write-Once Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> pca0 on motherboard pca0: PC speaker audio driver sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 at 0x278-0x27f on isa psm0 not found at 0x60 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , multi-block-64 wd0: 504MB (1032192 sectors), 1024 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wt0 at 0x300-0x301 irq 5 drq 1 on isa wt0: type 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x210 ep0 at 0x210-0x21f irq 11 on isa ep0: aui/bnc[*BNC*] address 00:60:8c:de:bf:e1 joy0 at 0x201 on isa joy0: joystick npx0 msize 49152 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sctarg0(noadapter::): Processor Target ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers pid 275 (mysqld), uid 0: exited on signal 11 sd2(ahc0:2:0): SCB 0x0 - timed out in message out phase, SCSISIGI == 0xa4 SEQADDR = 0x99 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x5 SSTAT1 = 0x2 sd2(ahc0:2:0): abort message in message buffer sd2(ahc0:2:0): SCB 0 - Abort Completed. sd2(ahc0:2:0): no longer in timeout sd1(ahc0:1:0): SCB 0x1 - timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR = 0x4 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x5 SSTAT1 = 0xa sd1(ahc0:1:0): Queueing an Abort SCB sd1(ahc0:1:0): Abort Message Sent sd1(ahc0:1:0): SCB 1 - Abort Completed. sd1(ahc0:1:0): no longer in timeout sd3(ahc0:3:0): SCB 0x3 - timed out in message out phase, SCSISIGI == 0xa4 SEQADDR = 0x99 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x5 SSTAT1 = 0x2 sd3(ahc0:3:0): abort message in message buffer sd3(ahc0:3:0): SCB 3 - Abort Completed. sd3(ahc0:3:0): no longer in timeout sd1(ahc0:1:0): SCB 0x2 - timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 SEQADDR = 0x7 SCSISEQ = 0x12 SSTAT0 = 0x5 SSTAT1 = 0xa sd1(ahc0:1:0): Queueing an Abort SCB sd1(ahc0:1:0): Abort Message Sent sd1(ahc0:1:0): SCB 2 - Abort Completed. sd1(ahc0:1:0): no longer in timeout To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:02:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15938 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:02:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15821 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:01:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26260; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803090400.UAA26260@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 01:45:06 GMT." <199803090145.SAA12288@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:00:17 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you watched any of the hearings on C-SPAN, or saw Bill on Charlie > Rose that night, trying to spin the monopoly issue, you'd think that > maybe Bill himself would support an effort. ;-). I didn't watch the C-span event however I did hear it via real-audio, using -current, linux real-audio, and voxware 3.5 8) My 2cents it was a "cute" hearing -- Senate to the public: You see taxpayers we held a hearing on the so called Microsoft Monopoly we have done our job! Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:07:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:07:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com ([192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16222; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19149; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:36:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA17292; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:36:36 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:36:36 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: <24443.889409587@time.cdrom.com> <199803090227.TAA14706@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803090227.TAA14706@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 02:27:50AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a >> Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC >> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for >> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people >> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. > > I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, > I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 > capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be > *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well > intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the world's best hackers. Is anybody interested in doing better? What are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is still finite. Comments? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19194 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19092 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:19:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11065; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:38:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803090338.WAA11065@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: "Christopher J. White" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: FreeBSD routing code References: <199803082329.SAA32622@Empire.Net> In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:29:45 EST." <199803082329.SAA32622@Empire.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:38:30 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm interested in the possiblity of using BSD code > as the IP forwarding engine, interfaced to commercial > versions of routing protocols such as OSPF. This is all > using VxWorks on a PowerPC. The target is a rather > high performance router capable of upto 10,000 routes. Either you missed a digit or two in your route count, or you've seriously misunderstood the market for "high performance routers." For development starting now, "high-performance router" means something with OC-12 speed network interfaces, and lots more than 10K routes. > I've heard that BSDs TCP/IP is just about the fastest > around, so I thought I'd take a look at it. A thread > from about two years ago indicated that BSD as a router > is certainly possible, but this seemed to be system running > the full BSD operating system, not just the router code. Most instances that I'm aware of using the BSD networking code (and kernel, for that matter), don't use the existing packet forwarding path in the stack. It's not that it's particularlly slow (though, for a software-based forwarding engine, you can probably do much better), but that most implementations use a other forwarding engines, with the BSD network code used as the "control-plane" for the box. > Has anyone ripped out just the BSD routing code to > build a router on top of another operating system? > How much effort is involved? Certainly the reverse has been done. The Ascend GRF router, for instance, uses a version of BSDI UNIX as it's OS, and pushes the computed routes out to the forwarding engines distributed through the box. There are at least 2 or 3 others that I know about, but I originally learned of the details under a non-disclosure agreement, and am not sure what is common and public knowledge now. Heck, some of them even use FreeBSD :-) Again, these are instances of the OS used to host the routing code; forwarding is done elsewhere. There are lots of products with embedded versions of the BSD networking code inside of some random OS. The Annex terminal servers, for instance (by Encore, Xylogics, and now Bay Networks) are essentially the BSD stack with applications. Many moons ago, I ported the 4.3-tahoe networking code to run on a Univac 1100/90 mainframe. It was just the network stack, and interfaced with the host OS in a way that I won't bore you with. What was interesting is that the host computer was a 36 bit, word-addressable, 1's-complement CPU. The code was actually mostly portable, once you realise that -1 != ~0 on these systems. > I'm new to BSD code, but on the face of it, the routing > code seems pretty tightly coupled to the kernel. Not impossible. Actually, the networking code is fairly well isolated from the rest of the kernel. There are pretty clean interfaces; mostly the socket abstraction on the one end, and some pretty well defined device driver interfaces, too. Please do a little market research to make sure you're not wasting your time though. For high-performance routers, the bar is set pretty high these days. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:26:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20433 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:26:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA20376 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from pencil-box.village.org [10.0.0.22] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yBu7Q-0005JU-00; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:24:53 -0700 Received: from pencil-box.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pencil-box.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA01624; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:03:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803061603.JAA01624@pencil-box.village.org> To: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "04 Mar 1998 09:02:00 +0100." <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> References: <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 09:03:14 -0700 From: "M. Warner Losh" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> Leif Neland writes: : A company I know has the production database in one location, and a : backup database in another. The backup-database operates in : "incremental restore" mode (for lack of a better word), and receives : the redo-logs from the production database over a dedicated network : link. So the backup-database is only a few minutes behind at most. The company that I work for is producing a product called DataStar (what a name) that operates at the disk block level to accomplish the same thing. We've found that a properly configured system is never more than about a second behind in its updates. Any FreeBSD interest in a disk mirroring product that mirrors data to a remote location in realtime? I'd love to do a FreeBSD port :-). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21102 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA21042; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from pencil-box.village.org [10.0.0.22] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yBu8O-0005JU-00; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:25:52 -0700 Received: from pencil-box.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pencil-box.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA01605; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:51:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803061551.IAA01605@pencil-box.village.org> To: Tomasz Zin Subject: Re: Streamer Iomega Ditto 2GB Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Mar 1998 09:10:17 +0100." References: Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:51:17 -0700 From: "M. Warner Losh" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Tomasz Zin writes: : Does support FreeBSD streamer Iomega Ditto 2GB? : This is "floppy type". No specific support for this is in the ft driver. the ft driver, alas, is badly bitrotted and people have reported problems with it. It might work, it might not. IDE tape drives have some preliminary support in the kernel, thanks to Soeren Schmidt. Given their price ($169 for a 4G Travan IDE drive from www.corpsys.com), they are very competitive to the Dittos in terms of cost. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:39:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22718 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:39:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19228; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:09:06 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA04926; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:09:04 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980309150904.17095@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:09:04 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "M. Warner Losh" , Leif Neland Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> <199803061603.JAA01624@pencil-box.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803061603.JAA01624@pencil-box.village.org>; from M. Warner Losh on Fri, Mar 06, 1998 at 09:03:14AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 March 1998 at 9:03:14 -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message <4bf_9803042116@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> Leif Neland writes: > : A company I know has the production database in one location, and a > : backup database in another. The backup-database operates in > : "incremental restore" mode (for lack of a better word), and receives > : the redo-logs from the production database over a dedicated network > : link. So the backup-database is only a few minutes behind at most. > > The company that I work for is producing a product called DataStar > (what a name) that operates at the disk block level to accomplish the > same thing. We've found that a properly configured system is never > more than about a second behind in its updates. > > Any FreeBSD interest in a disk mirroring product that mirrors data to > a remote location in realtime? I'd love to do a FreeBSD port :-). I think I'd be interested in that. I know of at least one person who's been deperately looking. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 20:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:49:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (tc-24.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24733 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 20:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA01865 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:48:41 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:48:40 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Adding a Boot-Mgr... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... Until recently, I haven't had enough disk space in order to install other operating systems, but just acquired a couple of extra drives. I want to install Win95 onto one of them for the explicit purpose of running Simply Accounting for the business. How do I, if I can, go about adding in a boot-mgr so that I can dual boot? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 21:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27259 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:04:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13161; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:02:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803090502.VAA13161@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: The Hermit Hacker cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a Boot-Mgr... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:48:40 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:02:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Until recently, I haven't had enough disk space in order to > install other operating systems, but just acquired a couple of extra > drives. I want to install Win95 onto one of them for the explicit purpose > of running Simply Accounting for the business. > > How do I, if I can, go about adding in a boot-mgr so that I can > dual boot? Windows 95 can only be booted from the first disk in the system, unless you invest in one of the commercial boot managers. Lots of people have recommended System Commander for this. The cheaper way of doing it: - Reconfigure your /etc/fstab so that FreeBSD will run as the second disk. - Reconfigure the disk that FreeBSD is on to be the second disk. - Install the new disk for W95 as the first disk, - Install W95 on it. - Put the 'bootinst.com' and 'boot.bin' files on a bootable DOS floppy (get them in the tools directory on any FreeBSD release disk), and use them to install booteasy on your first disk. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 21:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29648 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:16:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from pencil-box.village.org [10.0.0.22] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yBuul-0005Np-00; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:15:51 -0700 Received: from pencil-box.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pencil-box.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA04129; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:15:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803090515.WAA04129@pencil-box.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance Cc: Marc Slemko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Mar 1998 21:54:12 PST." <199803080554.VAA08633@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199803080554.VAA08633@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:15:05 -0700 From: "M. Warner Losh" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199803080554.VAA08633@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: : I appreciate the conceptual niceness of what you're describing, but I : guess I'm not convinced that something like that would be worth the : cruft and effort involved. On most modern systems that I've played with, copy avoidance doesn't really help much at all. bcopy and friends run at about 50-75MB/s, while most networking and/or disk protocols are lucky to get into the 5-10M range (sustained). the copies that you are avoiding don't really hurt much and would be difficult to measure for most applications. I have had great difficulty speeding up a driver that I wrote for Solaris by eliminating some bcopy() calls. They tend not to be all that important for most applications.[*] Warner [*] if you are still running on 25MHz processors in embedded systems or on really slow hardware, this statement is completely bogus... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 21:18:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00453 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:18:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00403; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:18:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from pencil-box.village.org [10.0.0.22] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yBuxT-0005Nt-00; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:18:39 -0700 Received: from pencil-box.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pencil-box.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA04140; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:17:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803090517.WAA04140@pencil-box.village.org> To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), marcs@znep.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 06:58:29 +0100." <199803080558.GAA04603@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199803080558.GAA04603@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:17:53 -0700 From: "M. Warner Losh" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199803080558.GAA04603@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Luigi Rizzo writes: : Furthermore, consider that on modern machines these copies might : run at some 250Mbytes/s or faster, i.e. one order of magnitude : faster than network/disk speed. That is 50ish times the sustained speed of most disk drives. And 25 times faster than the fastest generally deployed network technology (100BaseT). Anyway, we're talking at most 2-4% savings here at the cost of a huge amount of kernel bloat. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 21:22:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01272 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01230 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from pencil-box.village.org [10.0.0.22] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yBv0c-0005O4-00; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:21:54 -0700 Received: from pencil-box.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pencil-box.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA04154; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:21:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803090521.WAA04154@pencil-box.village.org> To: Marc Slemko Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:38:38 MST." References: Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:21:09 -0700 From: "M. Warner Losh" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Marc Slemko writes: : But the point is that you still have to copy it into the mbuf, you still : have to use the memory for the mbuf, etc. This uses more CPU and memory : bandwidth, increases memory use, and means you may have to chop things up : smaller to avoid using too much memory for mbufs. And how does sendfile() differ from this? It still has to insert protocol headers somehow. : Or, you can use sendfile() and code it so it doesn't have to copy into : mbufs. This is easier because of where the data is coming from. Then don't you lose performance setting up two DMA transfers for the packet? Or do most cards have scatter/gather operations for transmitting packets? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 21:35:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04573 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:35:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04557 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07930; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:31:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199803090531.GAA07930@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Adding a Boot-Mgr... In-Reply-To: <199803090502.VAA13161@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Mar 8, 98 09:02:15 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:31:11 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > Windows 95 can only be booted from the first disk in the system, unless > you invest in one of the commercial boot managers. Wont GRUB do this for you? ( http://www.uruk.org/grub/ ) It allows for the active partition to be set, and for chainloading. Or is that not enough? /Mikael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 22:01:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09270 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09261; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA01396; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:02:19 GMT Message-ID: <00a801bd4b20$32c8d0a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Greg Lehey" , "Terry Lambert" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: , , Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:52:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG regarding winse.. not enought volenteers, not enough documentation on how to code for it... -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert ; Jordan K. Hubbard Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com ; perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu ; dkelly@hiwaay.net ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sunday, March 08, 1998 6:08 PM Subject: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) >On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a >>> Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC >>> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for >>> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people >>> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. >> >> I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, >> I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 >> capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be >> *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well >> intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. > >OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the >world's best hackers. Is anybody interested in doing better? What >are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the >most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is >still finite. Comments? > >Greg > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 22:03:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09603 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id XAA14495; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11909; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:00:20 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:00:20 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: "M. Warner Losh" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: <199803090515.WAA04129@pencil-box.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199803080554.VAA08633@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes: > : I appreciate the conceptual niceness of what you're describing, but I > : guess I'm not convinced that something like that would be worth the > : cruft and effort involved. > > On most modern systems that I've played with, copy avoidance doesn't > really help much at all. bcopy and friends run at about 50-75MB/s, > while most networking and/or disk protocols are lucky to get into the > 5-10M range (sustained). the copies that you are avoiding don't > really hurt much and would be difficult to measure for most > applications. I have had great difficulty speeding up a driver that I > wrote for Solaris by eliminating some bcopy() calls. They tend not to > be all that important for most applications.[*] > > Warner > > [*] if you are still running on 25MHz processors in embedded systems > or on really slow hardware, this statement is completely bogus... > A pair of HP 9000 Series X30 machines. FDDI. No copy avoidance, ~1% free CPU while sending. Copy avoidance, ~45% free CPU while sending. Throughput didn't go up that much though, but that's probably due to other bottlenecks. These numbers are quoted from the HP paper I referenced earlier. I consider that sort of improvement in free CPU very worthwhile. Taking advantage of cards' built in checksum methods also gives you a decent gain. If you can use copy avoidance, you also save memory. Instead of needing say 64k of data in the socket buffers for each connection, you can actually end up sharing a lot of it between connections and the buffer cache if you have a reasonable amount of memory for your dataset. This is contrasted to having to have multiple copies of data, so you can end up having a smaller buffer cache, so you start having to hit the disks more. You also gain from simplicity of implementation in your application program because it doesn't have to keep coming back to transfer another chunk of the file, etc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 22:20:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA10957 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Anthony.Kimball@East.Sun.COM) Received: from East.Sun.COM ([129.148.1.241]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id WAA28901; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:07:52 -0800 Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id BAA03320; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:07:50 -0500 Received: from compound.east.sun.com by suneast.East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA18465; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:07:49 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.east.sun.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id AAA08361; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:08:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:08:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803090608.AAA08361@compound.east.sun.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: grog@lemis.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the : world's best hackers. Is anybody interested in doing better? What : are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the : most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is : still finite. Comments? Sun closed down their WABI project before it produced a working Win32 interface. Someone should find out if they are willing to release the code under a BSD license. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 22:50:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17258 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17100 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:50:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15815 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:20:05 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199803090650.RAA15815@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Framebuffer access via libvgl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:20:04 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I was wondering if it was possible to get a pointer to the framebuffer on the video card using libvgl, a la svgalib? It would be handy for porting svgalib apps :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 23:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24020 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23985 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01897; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:28:04 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199803090728.IAA01897@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-Reply-To: <199803090650.RAA15815@cain.gsoft.com.au> from Daniel O'Connor at "Mar 9, 98 05:20:04 pm" To: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:28:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Daniel O'Connor who wrote: > Hi, > I was wondering if it was possible to get a pointer to the framebuffer on the > video card using libvgl, a la svgalib? > It would be handy for porting svgalib apps :) Sure is is, look at the example in /usr/share/examples/libvgl how to init etc, then you use the structure VGLDisplay which is of type: typedef struct { byte Type; /* type of display buffer ie 8bit planemode etc */ int Xsize, Ysize; /* size of screen memory */ byte *Bitmap; /* pointer to start of screen memory */ } VGLBitmap; You want the Bitmap pointer... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 23:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25382 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25305; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13770; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:30:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803090730.XAA13770@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 08:28:04 +0100." <199803090728.IAA01897@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:30:14 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id XAA25314 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You want the Bitmap pointer... Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 23:40:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27668 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spidaman@well.com) Received: from well.com (nobody@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA16529; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (spidaman@localhost) by well.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA07093; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:40:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:40:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kallen Reply-To: Ian Kallen To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (event 3/12) SF Bay Area FreeBSD User's Group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't know of a user group in NYC but I've heard of stranger things happening there :) Posting on hackers and in c.u.b.f.m for like minded folks in your locale sounds like a good start. There's no support, gratitude or accoutrements supplied by anybody: a user's group is simply a product of whatver of time and gumption you can summon and the generosity of providers of meeting space, attendence and energy. Good luck and send me an announcement when you convene! (I make it to NYC occasionally) regards, -Ian On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > On the topic of hops and UUBP, is there a FreeBSD User's Group in > New York City? If not (sigh), I'll start one. (Where do I get my > fanchise materials; do I get funny paper hats?) > > Who here is in or around NYC? > > BTW, what is 'listfoundation' ? > > > Dan > > -- > danj@3skel.com > Dan Janowski > Triskelion Systems, Inc. > Bronx, NY > > > -- Ian Kallen "Like so many Americans, she was trying to construct a life that made sense from things she found in gift shops." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 23:45:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29245 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29155; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA17048; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:05:55 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199803090735.SAA17048@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:30:14 -0800." <199803090730.XAA13770@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:05:55 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You want the Bitmap pointer... > > Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) When you^H^H^Hsomeone rips the code out of svgalib.. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 8 23:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02904; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27986; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:54:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803090754.XAA27986@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Daniel O'Connor" cc: Mike Smith , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:05:55 +1030." <199803090735.SAA17048@cain.gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:54:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, the code needs to be rip out from XFree86 and not from svgalib. Amancio > > > > You want the Bitmap pointer... > > > > Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) > When you^H^H^Hsomeone rips the code out of svgalib.. :) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | > |http://www.gsoft.com.au | > |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| > |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 00:35:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15069; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02097; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:34:47 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199803090834.JAA02097@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-Reply-To: <199803090754.XAA27986@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Mar 8, 98 11:54:40 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:34:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au, mike@smith.net.au, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > > Actually, the code needs to be rip out from XFree86 and not from > svgalib. > > Amancio > > > > > > You want the Bitmap pointer... > > > > > > Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) > > When you^H^H^Hsomeone rips the code out of svgalib.. :) BZZST!, none of the above, we need to be able to do VESA BIOS calls from within the kernel. Give me THAT and I'll give you modes & linear buffer and what have you. Stop all the other bullshit, its only going to provide <50% solutions and will only run on a very limitted set of hardware, period. Contractors ?? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 00:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21018 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20885; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28445; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803090850.AAA28445@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:34:43 +0100." <199803090834.JAA02097@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:50:21 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA20918 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > > > > Actually, the code needs to be rip out from XFree86 and not from > > svgalib. > > > > Amancio > > > > > > > > You want the Bitmap pointer... > > > > > > > > Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) > > > When you^H^H^Hsomeone rips the code out of svgalib.. :) > > BZZST!, none of the above, we need to be able to do VESA BIOS calls > from within the kernel. Give me THAT and I'll give you modes & linear > buffer and what have you. > Stop all the other bullshit, its only going to provide <50% solutions > and will only run on a very limitted set of hardware, period. > > Contractors ?? :) Hmm.. now you got my attention , how much you or whomever is willing to pay for such a feature? Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 00:58:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23258; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02178; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:57:25 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199803090857.JAA02178@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-Reply-To: <199803090850.AAA28445@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Mar 9, 98 00:50:21 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:57:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, doconnor@gsoft.com.au, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > > In reply to Amancio Hasty who wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Now, when will this work with linear framebuffers? 8) > > > > When you^H^H^Hsomeone rips the code out of svgalib.. :) > > > > BZZST!, none of the above, we need to be able to do VESA BIOS calls > > from within the kernel. Give me THAT and I'll give you modes & linear > > buffer and what have you. > > Stop all the other bullshit, its only going to provide <50% solutions > > and will only run on a very limitted set of hardware, period. > > > > Contractors ?? :) > > Hmm.. now you got my attention , how much you or whomever is willing > to pay for such a feature? I'm not going to pay anything, but my time can be "contracted" to do this, excuse my poor formulation... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 01:06:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25227; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28715; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803090905.BAA28715@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:57:25 +0100." <199803090857.JAA02178@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 01:05:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA25238 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not going to pay anything, but my time can be "contracted" to do > this, excuse my poor formulation... Thats cool at least if a commercial entity sees any value on the feature they know whom to approach . Good Luck! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 01:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (daemon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04810 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:29:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199803090929.BAA04810@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA036034861; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:14:21 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: 430tx vs SIS 5591 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:14:21 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How do the newer SiS PCI chipsets rack up against the Intel 430TX ? Do they have the same caching problems (RAM coverage limitations) ? Also, 16550 support is common these days, but what about support for newer serial chips (such as the 83877) ? Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 01:50:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09174 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:50:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id JAA08538; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:47:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f.gud.siemens.co.at) by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA062123095; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:44:55 +0100 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA02668; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:45:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:45:19 +0100 From: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199803090845.JAA02668@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, shimon@simon-shapiro.org Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: dKHFnoUn5NeOt84+v0X78g== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Consifer a small ISP with, say 5,000 accounts which loses power during ruch > hour. Can you count the number of support calls? > Consider a web server with 2,000 virtual servers. Many used for OLTP, thus > directly generating revenue. If I had my business run on such a server, I > sure would demand it is imunne to power glitches. OLTP does not exists in Austria (i.e. not over Internet). The secure browsers are not available (see ITAR). The other issue is that the power availability seems much better here than in the USA--in the last 5 years I have had no power failures outside one planned (and known two months in advance). This, of course has a bearing on the measures taken to live through the failures, at least for ISP's. > Wrong again. Diesel generators have a 15-180 seconds switch over time. > You use the diesels to feed the battery chargers. The battery packs are > impressive. If you are in the Portland Oregon area, call me and I'll take > you to a small switching center. Fascinating to see. It really depends upon the Diesel backup employed. The hospital grade backup I was describing really kicks in within a few seconds (I seem to recollect that 5 second is a maximum limit). They might be an overkill for the telco people, though (hospital grade power backup deployed around here commonly consists of an 3-phase AC motor, 3-phase AC generator, a Diesel motor and sometimes a smallish DC motor all on the same axle. Usually only the OP's and intensive care are backed up this way, and they never receive the outside power--the power comes always from the generator, and in the case that the outside power fails the Diesel gets immediately injected with fuel--NB it spins at all times--and takes over. The DC motor is intended to help in the possible gap before the Diesel is capable of rated power--afterwards it is used to charge batteries. Now, that is impressive :) A smallish ISP will hardly be able to afford it, nor it seems to be necessary around here. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 02:04:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11835 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11763; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:03:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27972; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803090753.XAA27972@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Framebuffer access via libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 08:28:04 +0100." <199803090728.IAA01897@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:53:34 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA11764 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cool, how does this work for Matrox and S3 cards? Tnks, Amancio > In reply to Daniel O'Connor who wrote: > > Hi, > > I was wondering if it was possible to get a pointer to the framebuffer on the > > video card using libvgl, a la svgalib? > > It would be handy for porting svgalib apps :) > > Sure is is, look at the example in /usr/share/examples/libvgl how to > init etc, then you use the structure VGLDisplay which is of type: > > typedef struct { > byte Type; /* type of display buffer ie 8bit planemode etc */ > int Xsize, Ysize; /* size of screen memory */ > byte *Bitmap; /* pointer to start of screen memory */ > } VGLBitmap; > > You want the Bitmap pointer... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 02:47:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA (ukrcard-gu.gu.net [194.93.170.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17220 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:47:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@UkrCard.COM) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14305; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:46:21 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from alex@solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:46:20 +0200 (EET) From: Alexander Tatmaniants To: "David E. Cross" cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT COMMITED in 2.2, please test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > as it says.. > > I've commited the DPT into 2.2 > > please test... > > you need options DPTOPT in your config file > > until it's been proven to work, then that option should not be needed. > > > > Pardon my naive'ty, but what is DPT? You can visit www.dpt.com for details. > > -- > David Cross > UNIX Systems Administrator > GE Corporate R&D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 02:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:49:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joker.bik-gmbh.de (root@joker.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17861 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cracauer@BIK-GmbH.DE) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by joker.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA23077; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:33:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980309113304.00316@joker.bik-gmbh.de> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:33:04 +0100 From: Martin Cracauer To: Randall Hopper Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs & less bug (process disowned) References: <000901bd3c41$d704f8d0$9ba9a68f@pest.us.dell.com> <19980220211135.62939@ct.picker.com> <19980221114220.59907@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com>; from Randall Hopper on Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 06:02:25PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com>, Randall Hopper wrote: > BTW, do you know if the /bin/sh SIGIO-related bug has been reported and/or > fixed in -current? There has been much discussion about in on the -current and -commit mailing lists, you might want to check the archives. There are currently two reasonable working, but still not perfect solutions. See http://www.freebsd.org/~cracauer/ for two diffs and testsuite/ for some background material. Another issue is that problems in our `make` require /bin/sh to behave wrong (to terminate on SIGINT even if foreground processes run), otherwise you'll end up with hard-to-kill recursive makes. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.bik-gmbh.de/~cracauer BIK - Aschpurwis + Behrens GmbH, Hamburg/Germany Tel.: +49 40 414787 -12, Fax. +49 40 414787 -15 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 02:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18248 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA (ukrcard-gu.gu.net [194.93.170.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18186 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 02:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@UkrCard.COM) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13135; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:24:15 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from alex@solaric.UkrCard.Kiev.UA) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:24:13 +0200 (EET) From: Alexander Tatmaniants To: Keith Pitcher cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMC9432TX Question. In-Reply-To: <35012C4F.55B62D75@weirdness.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Keith Pitcher wrote: > I am currently running 2.2.5-release and wish to add the support for the > SMC9432tx network card. After checking > Ustimenko Semen's homepage (http://iclub.nsu.ru/~semen/smc9432tx.html) > I only found diffs. I did find version 1.62 in the mailing archives, > which was labeled for 2.2.5-release. However after applying the 1.62 > patch, recompiling the kernel, and rebooting ; my system only detects an > unknown hardware type tx0. dmesg shows no tx0 device found. If this is a > known bug in the earlier version of the driver, I'd appreciate a pointer > to the full version of the latest release. AFAIK it is in latest stable. > > Keith Pitcher > kpitcher@weirdness.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 03:43:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 03:43:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA24601 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 03:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 6:42:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10959; Mon, 9 Mar 98 06:42:14 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA01723; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:41:49 -0500 Message-Id: <19980309064149.24319@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:41:49 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Martin Cracauer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs & less bug (process disowned) Mail-Followup-To: Martin Cracauer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000901bd3c41$d704f8d0$9ba9a68f@pest.us.dell.com> <19980220211135.62939@ct.picker.com> <19980221114220.59907@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com> <19980309113304.00316@joker.bik-gmbh.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980309113304.00316@joker.bik-gmbh.de>; from Martin Cracauer on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:33:04AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Cracauer: |In <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com>, Randall Hopper wrote: |> BTW, do you know if the /bin/sh SIGIO-related bug has been reported and/or |> fixed in -current? | |There has been much discussion about in on the -current and -commit |mailing lists, you might want to check the archives. Ok. Will do. |There are currently two reasonable working, but still not perfect |solutions. See http://www.freebsd.org/~cracauer/ for two diffs and |testsuite/ for some background material. diff.bde seems to have a permissions problem (isn't readable). Thanks, Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 06:18:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:18:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.20.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17717 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.3B67A0D0@mailer.syr.edu>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 9:17:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25613 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a > >> Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC > >> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for > >> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people > >> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. > > > > I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, > > I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 > > capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be > > *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well > > intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. > > OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the > world's best hackers. Is anybody interested in doing better? What > are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the > most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is > still finite. Comments? > Microsoft "updates" the API too frequently. Each service pack adds a new function, or a slightly different behaviour to an existing one. If I may offer my opinion, I agree with the poster who noted that what we need is an alternative. In the US, we have a Microsoft monopoly, but MS is going to have much more trouble in India, China, former SU, etc--they simply do not have the capital to invest in MS technologies. I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), and apps to run with it. A FreeBSD that ran (with GUI and some apps) on an 8MB 486-66 would be a killer. Cost is not an impossible barrier--we need to achieve $30/seat for OS plus apps. The other side of this problem is turnover costs. During the next US economic downturn, I wonder if companies will continue to ride the 3 year hardware replacement bandwagon. I know that my employer (Syracuse U) cannot do it now. Companies have had extra thick margins and thus been able to afford replacement schedules which are a little silly. The other piece of this that's scary is Microsoft's licensing strategy. They've (at least for large institutions) moved away from the traditional notion of selling you software--they sell you the licenses plus "maintenance" to get you the next version. You wind up with a computing environment that costs you $100-$150 per seat annually for software. Add in $500/year (3 year turnover) for hardware, and you're talking about $600-$650 per seat per year. Some large companies could afford to fund the development of the OS and the apps in-house for what they're currently paying MS for software. Very much IMHO, what's needed is a refined vision, about $1-2m in venture capital, and a nice quiet building out in the country. (I like to code where the population density is <20 people per square mile :) -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 06:42:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23051 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23044 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA09741; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:45:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980309154517.49800@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:45:17 +0100 From: Martin Cracauer To: Randall Hopper Cc: Martin Cracauer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emacs & less bug (process disowned) References: <000901bd3c41$d704f8d0$9ba9a68f@pest.us.dell.com> <19980220211135.62939@ct.picker.com> <19980221114220.59907@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com> <19980309113304.00316@joker.bik-gmbh.de> <19980309064149.24319@ct.picker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19980309064149.24319@ct.picker.com>; from Randall Hopper on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 06:41:49AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <19980309064149.24319@ct.picker.com>, Randall Hopper wrote: > Martin Cracauer: > |In <19980308180225.16965@ct.picker.com>, Randall Hopper wrote: > |> BTW, do you know if the /bin/sh SIGIO-related bug has been reported and/or > |> fixed in -current? > | > |There has been much discussion about in on the -current and -commit > |mailing lists, you might want to check the archives. > > Ok. Will do. > > |There are currently two reasonable working, but still not perfect > |solutions. See http://www.freebsd.org/~cracauer/ for two diffs and > |testsuite/ for some background material. > > diff.bde seems to have a permissions problem (isn't readable). I fixed the permissions and my mail setup (in case someone tried to reply). Martin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 06:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25104 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07195 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:54:02 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA04907; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:54:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980309155400.21248@follo.net> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:54:00 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Proposed changes the FreeBSD build system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have lying about (separate) patches to introduce the targets 'regress' and 'testbox' into the FreeBSD buildtree, as well as for doing limited builds (building just parts of the tree, but from all over it). 'regress' is propagated around the source tree, to allow regression tests to be done in place. It comes with an 'LKM' config file for a minimal kernel working with the LKMs, and a system link test for the LKMs. The target assumes the buildtree is already in place. 'testbox' builds a testbox from scratch. It wipes ${TESTDEVICE}, creates a disklabel (with a single filesystem and a swap partition of configurable size), and installs everything necessary to run the machine in a minimal configuration. I use this for doing destructive tests - I just hotswap a harddrive on the unused IDE-bus, wipe it, and boot it in a scratchbox. The target assumes the buildtree is already in place. The limited build patches create a separate directory tree that can be used to limit the SUBDIR variable. A 'logical and' is done between the SUBDIR variable and a config file in the corresponding config file in the limitations tree. All of the above patches are part of my personal FreeBSD-hacking-kit. I can make them ready for prime time with relatively little work, and I think they could be useful to other people, too. Any objections to introducing them? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 06:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26269 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26254 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA28177 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:58:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <350403F3.7AC7@opengroup.org> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 10:00:03 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christopher Sedore wrote: > > I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), Where is there information on photon? Lightweight in terms of what? Bandwidth? Memory footprint of the application? Something else? What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be rewritten? > and apps to > run with it. A FreeBSD that ran (with GUI and some apps) on an 8MB 486-66 > would be a killer. Five years ago I was running FreeBSD on a 486-25 with 8MB of RAM -- and I was using X too. Three years before that I was running 386/BSD 0.1 on a 386SX-16 with 4MB, and Thomas Roell's X server -- it was no speed demon, but it did work. I'd still be using a 486DX2/66 with 8MB if Frye's hadn't had a special last year on a Pentium motherboard w/ 100Mhz CPU for $150. I run Netscape 3.0x, xfig, a dozen xterms, and more. Yes, the Pentium makes it quite a bit faster, but it was a very servicable machine before I switched to the Pentium. All it takes to have that killer system you want already exists -- and has existed for quite some time now. :-} I suspect that there's some other set of criteria, like performance, that you aren't mentioning. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY X Architect, The Open Group X Project Team To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 07:37:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00209 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00196 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02838 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:35:56 GMT Message-ID: <35040C37.4D578C02@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:35:20 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance References: <199803090521.WAA04154@pencil-box.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > Then don't you lose performance setting up two DMA transfers for the > packet? Or do most cards have scatter/gather operations for > transmitting packets? Most (if not all) newer NICs which support DMA tranfer support scatter/gather lists. Another nice feature is protocol cheksumming in hardware. It's a shame all these tweaks for the internet stack aren't being worked on (like copy avoidance, h/w checksum support), and the list below: Cheers, Dan chuckbo@garnet.vnd.tek.com (Chuck Bolz) writes: >I'm getting ready to "tune" a TCP/IP stack based on 4.3BSD with >numerous 4.4BSD enhancements. I've been testing an echo server >at 100 Mbps, and preliminary profiling indicates the following >breakdown: 50% of CPU time in socket code, 40% in TCP/IP code, >and the remainder in the driver/interrupt stack. This is a lot >of code to analyze! This note gave me an excuse to sit down and write up a little note about known improvements to TCP/UDP/IP performance that have not yet worked their way into the standard 4.3/4.4 BSD sources. This note takes the form of a list of known improvements. Comments on other known improvements are appreciated -- this list is off the top of my head and could use enhancement. Some of these improvements exist freely (for instance, Steve Pink and I have got the sosend() and soreceive() and combined copy/cksum stuff for x386 processor and ought to get them to the FreeBSD and NetBSD folks). Craig Improvement: Replace sosend() Performance Benefit: 5% (see Pink&Partridge 1994) + enables other improvements Sosend() is this horrendously complex bit of code that tries to figure out how the lower layer wants its data laid out and then tries to put the data being sent in that form. In almost every case, the lower layer protocol could do the job faster and more simply (faster because it knows its requirements, more simply because it doesn't have to test for a whole bunch of cases, and thus code is more compact and has less branches). Done wrong, this change requires rewriting the send code for all protocols. Done simply, you just add an pr_sosend entry in the protosw structure and set it to sosend() unless there's a protocol specific routine. NOTE: This change is a pre-requisite for some other performance improvements (such as combined checksum/copy) because sosend() is where data is copied from user space into the kernel. Improvement: Replace soreceive() Performance Benefit: Minor (< 1%) but enables benefits below You can simply soreceive() very slightly by making it protocol specific like sosend(). More important, you enable a bunch of improvements in memory handling. Improvement: Reduce data copies Performance Benefit: Large (10%-25% -- results vary see Partridge&Pink 94) Currently TCP touches its data 3 times, UDP 2 times, on transmission, and similar numbers on receipt. In both cases, the count should be 1 (or 0, with hardware assist). There are two necessary steps here both easy. The easy one is to create a kernel copy routine (typically a version of uiomove() and copyin()/copyout()) that computes the Internet checksum of the data being copied, while doing the copy. Then use this routine in the protocol specific sosend() and soreceive() to move data in and out of the kernel. This change reduces UDP to one copy and TCP to two copies. To reduce TCP to one copy, you need to make sure the device driver doesn't delete the TCP data when a segment is transmitted, so you can point to the same data when retransmitting. To get to zero copies, you need hardware checksumming (done when DMAing to the interface). NOTE: Many of these benefits can also be achieved using Copy-On-Write -- you mark application buffers COW and then don't have to copy them. You still however, need to checksum them, so unless there's hardware checksum support, you still scan the data once. Improvement: Delete IP header checksum call to in_cksum() Performance Benefit: 2% to 8% (depends on packet size and processor - P&P 94) The IP output code calls in_cksum() to checksum the IP header checksum. Since the header checksum requires only 14 instructions (without any conditionals) to compute, this is silly (you'll burn several times 14 instructions calling in_cksum(), plus harm code locality). Better to do the checksum in ip_output. Ditto on input in ipintr() Improvement: Delete IP interrupt Performance Benefit: never measured, estimated to be 20%+ On the inbound side, the networking code goes through two software interrupts, one for IP processing and one for socket processing. Given the high cost of doing the interrupt, the IP processing interrupt should go away -- IP and partial TCP processing should just be done at board interrupt level, then a single interrupt to the socket layer should be made to complete TCP processing. Van Jacobson has done preliminary work here but never gotten it to the point of distribution. Improvement: Get A Better Compiler Performance Benefit: 10% plus There's evidence that compilers that can relocate code segments and adjust branches based on actual profiles (so called Profiler Based Optimization) can easily give 10% performance improvements. Various folks have also done fancier reworking of binary layouts by hand and gotten even better results. (Work at Arizona and UC I believe) Improvement: Fix PCB lookup Performance Benefit: 5% or more Two issues here. First, the PCB caches don't work well, especially for UDP. Second, in_pcblookup() is a linear search -- it should be a hash table (see McKenney's paper in SIGCOMM '90). I'd love to see some of these tuneups appear in the internet stack, as they would be of such a great benefit to pretty much all network-related servers. Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 07:55:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02574 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:55:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02560 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:54:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id QAA03700; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:54:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f.gud.siemens.co.at) by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA105438732; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:52:12 +0100 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA13574; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:52:34 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:52:34 +0100 From: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199803091552.QAA13574@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, k.keithley@opengroup.org Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: bFoHf9beNEFxse/ZGrv6UQ== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that > various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are > you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be > rewritten? Isn't photon the proprietary GUI from those people who build realtime POSIX certified kernels? If so, I don't think it's X11 source compatible, and I believe you cannot use it as an X server. > I'd still be using a 486DX2/66 with 8MB if Frye's hadn't had a special > last year on a Pentium motherboard w/ 100Mhz CPU for $150. I run > Netscape 3.0x, xfig, a dozen xterms, and more. Yes, the Pentium makes it > quite a bit faster, but it was a very servicable machine before I > switched to the Pentium. > I'm still using an all-ISA 486DX33 with 16MB and an ET4000. Xemacs is faster than I can type (about 350 chars per minute) and for what I use it requires no upgrade. Once I go back to the large scale Radiance imaging, I'll need a cluster of Pentia II (floating point is a killer) but before that there is still a lot of mileage in 7 years old PC. BTW, it is not possible to install Win98 on that machine--CPU is too slow according to MS :) I guess I'm marooned in UNIX waters (the Win95 does seem very sluggish on the machine in comparison with FreeBSD/AccelX). /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 08:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03474 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:01:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA07667 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:08:13 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 7665; Mon Mar 9 18:08:03 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199803091606.SAA08725@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:06:58 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This all seems a bit off topic but... > > What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that > > various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are > > you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be > > rewritten? > > Isn't photon the proprietary GUI from those people who build realtime > POSIX certified kernels? If so, I don't think it's X11 source compatible, > and I believe you cannot use it as an X server. Photon is a proprietary windowing system that is used by QNX. If I remember correctly then there are libraries which will allow Photon apps to be compiled and run under X or messy windows, but not vice-versa. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 08:31:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07406 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:31:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA07356 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:30:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 22454 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Mar 1998 16:30:21 +0000 (GMT) To: freebsd@isvara.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:35:20 +0000" References: <35040C37.4D578C02@challenge.isvara.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:30:21 +0100 Message-ID: <22452.889461021@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Most (if not all) newer NICs which support DMA tranfer support > scatter/gather lists. Another nice feature is protocol cheksumming in > hardware. It's a shame all these tweaks for the internet stack aren't > being worked on (like copy avoidance, h/w checksum support), and the > list below: Actually, they *are* being worked on. I asked Craig Partridge, and I have received code fragments which do part of what he describes. I'm trying to integrate them into -current as best I can. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 08:48:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.20.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09918 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:48:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.D33B2450@mailer.syr.edu>; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:38:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27416 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:38:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:38:01 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <350403F3.7AC7@opengroup.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), > > Where is there information on photon? www.qnx.com > Lightweight in terms of what? Bandwidth? Memory footprint of the > application? Something else? Simply stated: yes. I want better bandwidth utilization and lower memory footprint, and simpler app development. > What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that > various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are > you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be > rewritten? Well, if we had apps to be rewritten, I'd be more concerned :). There hasn't exactly been a stampede to the X11 "Office" type apps. This is the problem--the existing investment in X apps is (in comparison with the desktop market size) negligable. There are probably already more business machines running Windows NT workstation for desktop applications than there are running X in that arena. If you want the desktop market, forget about the existing investment. Its inconsequential in the context of the market you're after. Start by designing what you need to capture a non-trivial portion (ie one larger than the current X userbase) and go from there. Key to the strategy will be coming up with an architecture coupled with development tools that make it much less painless to develop apps. (Now if you want to argue that X can do all these things with some work, maybe it bears investigation, but so far I haven't heard anyone claim that.) > > and apps to > > run with it. A FreeBSD that ran (with GUI and some apps) on an 8MB 486-66 > > would be a killer. > > Five years ago I was running FreeBSD on a 486-25 with 8MB of RAM -- and > I was using X too. Three years before that I was running 386/BSD 0.1 on > a 386SX-16 with 4MB, and Thomas Roell's X server -- it was no speed > demon, but it did work. Me too! I still have my 486-25SX in a corner somewhere. Never did mess with 386/BSD stuff, though. > I'd still be using a 486DX2/66 with 8MB if Frye's hadn't had a special > last year on a Pentium motherboard w/ 100Mhz CPU for $150. I run > Netscape 3.0x, xfig, a dozen xterms, and more. Yes, the Pentium makes it > quite a bit faster, but it was a very servicable machine before I > switched to the Pentium. > > All it takes to have that killer system you want already exists -- and > has existed for quite some time now. :-} > > I suspect that there's some other set of criteria, like performance, > that you aren't mentioning. Performance is important, and X11 is a bit heavy. Properly done, this scheme would have wide application across computing applications. Microsoft had to do WinCE for palmtops, Windows 98 for home, and Windows NT for business. Why? Because their system is not component based and was not designed to scale across small to large environments. FreeBSD has the ability to cover all these areas, and isn't that far from it on the kernel end. Again IMHO, FreeBSD needs to have dedicated (full-time) effort to making it a viable desktop platform. This is the same place that Linux suffers and where BSDI has missed the boat. BSDI went after a market that FreeBSD effectively serves better. On the freeware front, there are lots of folks out there dedicated to enhancing what already exists in the direction of what we need, but I don't know of anyone starting with a careful analysis of the whole situation and then building from there. I know it takes time and money to do this, but in today's US economy money is around if you're willing to go through the work to get it, and I think you could find developers who would be interested in working on such a project (particularly if your funding was adequate). The other side of this is adopting some of the functionality without adopting the cruft that goes along with it. We need apps that meet our needs--the bells and whistles are a stretch. If Microsoft apps were dinner utensils, you'd have 40 different forks, knives and spoons for each course of your meal--and some of them would be there depending on your mood! All IMHO, -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 09:32:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16286 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:32:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16074 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id UAA03954 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:22:25 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803091722.UAA03954@amsoft.ru> Subject: APM power off (patch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:22:24 +0300 (MSK) Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz What was done: - kernel apm driver now able to power off system - /sbin/shutdown has new flag `-p' to switch power off after shutdown What I'm not sure in is should apm be considered machine dependent or multi-platform thing? I mean where should call to apm_power_off() be placed - in kern/kern_shutdown.c (where it is placed now) or in i386/i386/machdep.c? Just say, and I'll redo.. Please somebody with commit privilege review the patch and merge it into source tree. I'd tested it on Intel AL440LX mb - works like a charm. Next thing I'll try when I'll have another spare half a hour is safe shutdown by pressing system power button. As far as I can see from APM 1.2 specification it is possible and not too hard to implement. Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 09:41:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17835 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA17808 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:41:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 15911 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Mar 1998 17:49:07 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-030698 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803090845.JAA02668@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:49:07 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 09-Mar-98 marino.ladavac@siemens.at wrote: > OLTP does not exists in Austria (i.e. not over Internet). The secure > browsers > are not available (see ITAR). The other issue is that the power > availability > seems much better here than in the USA--in the last 5 years I have had no > power failures outside one planned (and known two months in advance). > This, > of course has a bearing on the measures taken to live through the > failures, > at least for ISP's. OLTP, at least what I mean by OLTP, is a concept/transaction type; On-Line Transaction Processing. As Such it exists in Australia. Has nothing to do with the Internet. You could view e-mail as OLTP, as the transactions are started and committed on-line, with the rewuester connected from initiating the transaction through validation of acceptance or notification of rejection. The reliability of a service or subsystem has no bearing on wanting to protect from its loss. Only the damage if you do not protect from its loss; Itmatters not how reliable your disks are, only how expensive (money or otherwise) is the loss of a disk. If the damage is ignorable, then RAID is unnecessary, if cost is high, RAID-{1,5} may be appropriate. If the cost is critical, even RAID by itself may not be enough. What I am trying to acomplish in this conversation, is that the range of services and their sensitivity to interruption is wide. FreeBSD is migrating from a hacker's desktop to a high caliber server. Some services and features need to acompany this migration, or it will fail. All O/Ss going into the service market are going through this perocess. M$ Nice Try is already going there. ... All this discussion about diesels is fascinating but; a. Most ISPs cannot afford such a system, unless they colocate within a much larger facility that can. b. Battery backup systems can live for minutes. If power needs extend into hours, mecahnical means of generating electrivity are needed. c. Up to 10KW, gasoline generators are fine. d. Above 10KW, and below 1MW, Diesel engines provide good service. e. If you really want your power needs satisfied correctly, consult a reputable power systems design house. There are too many variables to cover in a mailing list dedicated to one particular software system. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:11:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from callisto.fortean.com (callisto.fortean.com [209.42.194.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23334 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:11:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by callisto.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA21214; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:11:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: callisto.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:11:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: Andrew Maltsev cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803091722.UAA03954@amsoft.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz > > What was done: > - kernel apm driver now able to power off system > - /sbin/shutdown has new flag `-p' to switch power off after shutdown The kernel poweroff stuff is important for my UPS work and patches have been submitted via send-pr for a shutdown queue for a while. I don't believe they've been committed though. We really need a standard (and safe) way of requesting the kernel to poweroff the machine. It would be nice if all of this stuff could work together???? - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23566; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dyson@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03857; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:12:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dyson) Message-Id: <199803091812.NAA03857@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: VM/Buffer cache sizing... (e.g. for serving NFS) In-Reply-To: <199803090016.VAA18605@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis at "Mar 8, 98 09:16:19 pm" To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:12:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, ccsanady@iastate.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joao Carlos Mendes Luis said: > > Let me try to understand. The write-back cache is has as small > timeout, after which it starts writing. After writing, those pages > are sent to the write-through cache, in case they are used again. > If you would wait for sync() or for a memory leak to start writing, > all those writes would compete in time without need. Also, system > stabilty would worse because more data is kept desnecessarily in > memory for more time. Is this the point ? > Two significant issues that I can think of right now: 1) If the write-back is full, further filling of the write-back has to wait until there is space. 2) If the write-back is all of memory, it is a problem to manage efficiently, and flushing it can take lots of time. During that flush, the filesystems can be busy, with long queues. There are various ways to implement the scheme, and I chose the one that we use for backwards compatibility. > > A question somewhat related: in top(8), what's the diffence between > cache and buffer memory ? I've read that active memory is also > used for cacheing, so how can we measure if a machine would perform > better with more memory for cacheing ? > Buffer memory is relatively (not quite) constant in size. It is sort-of the minimum size the buffer cache can be. Cache memory consists of memory that is not actively used. If your cache memory size is very small, and you see paging activity, you will gain some by increasing your physical memory. In our system, there is little to distinguish between file data and programs except that file data can use the buffer cache under certain circumstances. Note that there is no copying between caches in any case, and all of the copying done is virtual or logical. We minimize the use of physical (bcopy) type copies -- those are only evil. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@Freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23882 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23747 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA16108; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:13:19 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980309201318.43775@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:13:18 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ddb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was thinking of doing some work on ddb, but for all I know, all the serious developers are doing kgdb anyhow and any changes wouldn't be much needed ;) I don't have two FreeBSD machines to do kgdb and I've been spoiled by good powerful debuggers, I don't feel at home with ddb ;) How much do you think the following would, or would not be useful? (from easier to harder). 1. More convenient symbols support, e.g. "sym nfs*" to list all symbols starting from nfs/_nfs with their values. 2. Encapsulation of traps on entry/exit; i.e. you can't panic by trying to read nonexistent page in ddb, you can list nonexistent pages and see '???' values on them. 3. Independence from syscons, and ability to be brought up on just about hardest crashes, when syscons goes down too. 3.5. A printf-style routine directing to the debugger to print on its terminal; unlike tprintf/uprintf/kvprintf and friends, blocking and guaranteed to print everything no matter how often called. (maybe there's such a beast already and I missed it? pray tell). 4. Intel-style asm listing (yeah, right, flame away). 5. Source-level listing, by having a userland loader program give sources you're interested in to ddb; ddb would keep them in locked memory (no pagefaults, debug vm manager). 5. Better integration with the kernel; i.e. change address spaces inside ddb, intelligent display of important structures (mbuf, buffer, iostruct, whatever). Suggestions and flames are welcome. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:38:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29020 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03786 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:30:42 GMT Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03031; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:32:16 GMT Message-ID: <19980225103215.15997@iii.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:32:15 +0000 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. References: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Feb 24, 1998 at 08:23:26PM -0800 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On a vaguely related note (I'm trying to port some of the FreeBSD makefiles to use GNU make), does anyone know how to emulate the .if !target(foo) foo: bar do_something .endif construct in GNU make? I spent most of yesterday working through the documentation, Alta Vista and Deja News in search of an answer, and came up with none. I suspect it might (in the long term) be simpler to port the BSD make to Solaris. N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton is Just Another Perl Hacker at Interactive Investor ]==+-- . . . and relax To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:43:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00737 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:43:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00688 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA03111 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:47:49 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA14114; Mon, 9 Mar 98 13:42:14 EST Message-Id: <35043890.4B9F@njcc.com> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:44:32 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Maltsev Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) References: <199803091722.UAA03954@amsoft.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Maltsev wrote: > I'd tested it on Intel AL440LX mb - works like a charm. Next thing > I'll try when I'll have another spare half a hour is safe shutdown > by pressing system power button. As far as I can see from APM 1.2 > specification it is possible and not too hard to implement. Thant would be a great addition to FreeBSD - I would then feel comfortable deploying ATX-based FreeBSD to user who don't appreciate the importance of the shutdown command. Thanks! Ken khansen@njcc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 10:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03951 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA07386; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:26:41 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803091726.SAA07386@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: weird problem (lost packets) in iijppp To: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:26:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803081756.RAA01605@awfulhak.org> from "Brian Somers" at Mar 8, 98 05:56:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I got your other mail that says it doesn't happen with the latest > version. Can you try the latest version with `deny deflate' and > `disable deflate' ? This will force pred1 compression again :-) tried the above and still seems to have no problem. > Currently, there are two output queue sets, one IP queue set and one > modem queue set. Each queue set consists of two queues, a fast one > (interactive traffic in the IP set, non-NCP traffic in the modem set) > and a slow one. Stuff is compressed just before moving from the IP > set into the slow modem queue. regarding the IP queues, keeping two static queues is not very nice. i think it would be much better to implement some sort of "fair queueing" since the code is already available (e.g. the ALTQ package) and could be easily integrated i believe. This would also allow better queueing policies, integration with filtering, aliasing, etc. etc. Compression is applied in the wrong place, since doing it before passing through the modem queues prevents from doing some reordering of packets later. One wouldn't care normally, except that transmission times on a modem line are non-negligible, thus the chance that one might want to push forward some interactive packet might be significant. Also, doing compression before the modem queue prevents you from doing smart things with multiple lines, such as splitting long packets into smaller fragments and sending them in parallel and reassembling at the other end... My approach would be: - at least replace the modem queues with a single, fair-queuing mechanism; - add, in parallel, a prioritary queue for link control traffic (the 'fast modem queue'); - add options to split in-progress packets; here a fragment is either a whole link-control-packet (from the fast modem queue) or a small block (say 64..256 bytes) from the IP queues. This would be used both to handle better interactive response, and to get improved performance from parallel lines (see below) - do compression only when a fragment has been selected for unconditional write to the modem line. Since pred1 compression is _very_ fast, it is reasonable to do it right before the write() of the fragment. - keep compression state per line. Since the pred1 status is only 64KB, i think one can really afford the additional memory. Basically the forwarding loop would be ... select on the set of outgoing modem lines ... S = set of modem lines returning ready for write ; for (; S not empty && have_packets_in_queue ; ) { for (i in S) { get a fragment from the queue ; compress fragment using per-line status; enqueue compressed fragment on line i if (enough data queued on line i) remove i from S } } for (i in S) send block on the line i; there would be some small overhead per fragment to mark boundaries among fragments of different packets, but probably nothing very relevant: e.g. add ESC to mark the first fragment of an incomplete packet, and ESC to mark subsequent fragments of the above. Imaybe one also has to add a few bits to mark the link where the previous fragment was... but then part of this info could be merged with the various header compression techniques. Although a bit tricky, I think this would be very effective to reduce delays. Of course, we'd need some new PPP option to enable this enhanced features. > Is this what you have in mind ? Wouldn't we be better off suffering > the overhead of a smaller MTU ? After all, with VJ compression, > there isn't that much overhead in sending out shorter packets. this is the simplest solution in the short term i agree, but since somebody was working on ppp i thought it was worth discussing the subject... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 11:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18701 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (root@ghana-158.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18540 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24912; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: nik@iii.co.uk cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. In-Reply-To: <19980225103215.15997@iii.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 nik@iii.co.uk wrote: [...] > I suspect it might (in the long term) be simpler to port the BSD make to > Solaris. Yup, that is quite easy to do, but you'll need a few functions from FreeBSD. - alex A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 12:22:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:22:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rocksalt.mui.net ([207.12.13.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25646 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) From: ken@mui.net Received: from prune.mui.net (prune.mui.net [207.12.13.234]) by rocksalt.mui.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16014 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:21:58 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) Message-Id: <199803092021.KAA16014@rocksalt.mui.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:18:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-reply-to: References: <199803090845.JAA02668@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > b. Battery backup systems can live for minutes. If power needs > extend > into hours, mecahnical means of generating electrivity are > needed. plus there are some models that have hot swappable batteries, external battery packs, etc (APC) that can last for a few hours if necessary. ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 12:23:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:23:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (chris@cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26152 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27698; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:23:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980309152332.35831@netmonger.net> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:23:32 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: perl5-porters@perl.com, nvp@mediaone.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Perl, Threads, FreeBSD, High Weirdness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.87.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here are the latest results of my investigations into _62's thread situation: First, I'm 95% sure that the test suite is broken: sub islocked { use attrs 'locked'; my $val = shift; my $ret; if (@_) { $ret = new Thread \&islocked,shift; sleep 2; } print $val; } $t = islocked("ok 6\n","ok 7\n"); join $t; That 'join $t;' should be '$t->join;'. It's being interpreted as a Perl join, not a thread join. Further, in order for that to be of any use, islocked() should return $ret at the end. There's also another 'join $t' mistake in the next (8/9) test. Now the more sad part with FreeBSD: # test that sleep lets other thread run $t = new Thread \&islocked,"ok 8\n"; sleep 6; print "ok 9"; join $t; Pretending the last line is fixed, this test still fails on FreeBSD (2.2.5-stable as of yesterday). I don't know why, but I do know that threads are simply not working. They do not run concurrently. This test program: use Thread; $t = Thread->new(sub { print "AAA\n" while 1; }); while (1) { print "---\n"; sleep 1; } Produces this output: --- --- --- --- --- (ad infinitum) If the main program ever performs a $t->join or exits, the AAA thread takes over and actually can't be stopped with a ^C or ^\ (but kill -9 from another session works). Either I'm completely misunderstanding the semantics of the Thread stuff (the documentation _is_ a bit skimpy right now (I will try to help remedy that if I ever get this working)), or something's truly screwy. I'm encouraged by the fact that it compiles, links, and runs.. this is much more than used to happen. But it don't go right. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations, NetMonger Communications, Inc. +1-516-221-6664 http://www.netmonger.net/ info@netmonger.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 13:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aries.fortean.com (aries.fortean.com [209.42.194.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04250 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by aries.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17805; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:30:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) X-Authentication-Warning: aries.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: Andrew Maltsev cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803092107.AAA05671@amsoft.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What can be more standart, than ioctl(/dev/apm) for userland and > apm_power_off for kernel stuff? > > Or should we call it machine_power_off() and place a hook in > i386/machdep.c? The idea is to have a kernel callout hook using the at_shutdown interface. A driver like /dev/apm could insert a callout onto a queue which would get called from within reboot() in kern_shutdown.c... Whatever code you need to poweroff the system would go in your callout in the device driver. As for my patches, they add two things: 1) A third at_shutdown queue called SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF. This is required because some drivers (the DPT in particular) do cache flushing in the SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC queue. Since the queues are not currently ordered, there is no way to insure shutdown code would get called before the adapter has written all disk info. 2) Shutdown queues can now be ordered. The above is still necessary as ordering doesn't really provide MUCH help. A driver could still put it's callout after a poweroff driver by using the wrong priority on accident. My personal feeling is that I don't want any APM code at all in my kernels, especially my server boxes. I do want UPS shutdown code. With the callout mechanism, I only get the shutdown code which is in the drivers I use *AND* the kernel doesn't have to know diddly squat about what ugly and convoluted things I need to do to turn off a UPS or Motherbord from Vendor XYZ with APM version 99.34 :) - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 13:44:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06422 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06160 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:43:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id AAA05671 ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:07:16 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803092107.AAA05671@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: from "Bruce M. Walter" at "Mar 9, 98 01:11:15 pm" To: walter@fortean.com (Bruce M. Walter) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:07:16 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz > > > > What was done: > > - kernel apm driver now able to power off system > > - /sbin/shutdown has new flag `-p' to switch power off after shutdown > > The kernel poweroff stuff is important for my UPS work and patches have > been submitted via send-pr for a shutdown queue for a while. I don't > believe they've been committed though. We really need a standard (and > safe) way of requesting the kernel to poweroff the machine. What can be more standart, than ioctl(/dev/apm) for userland and apm_power_off for kernel stuff? Or should we call it machine_power_off() and place a hook in i386/machdep.c? With `restore previous power state' bios option it would be perfect colution for UPS support. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 14:02:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10767 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:02:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10583 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10190; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:01:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199803092201.OAA10190@austin.polstra.com> To: walter@fortean.com Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:01:20 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Bruce M. Walter wrote: > > The kernel poweroff stuff is important for my UPS work and patches have > been submitted via send-pr for a shutdown queue for a while. I don't > believe they've been committed though. We really need a standard (and > safe) way of requesting the kernel to poweroff the machine. Well, "halt -p" has been around for decades, even if it doesn't currently work. I'd suggest looking at the source for it and seeing what it does. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 14:35:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17387 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:35:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aries.fortean.com (aries.fortean.com [209.42.194.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17331 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by aries.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18045; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:33:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) X-Authentication-Warning: aries.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: John Polstra cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803092201.OAA10190@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, John Polstra wrote: > Well, "halt -p" has been around for decades, even if it doesn't > currently work. I'd suggest looking at the source for it and seeing > what it does. Currently, the -p flag just sets the RB_POWEROFF flag to reboot(). That in turn does nothing ;) There's actually a flaw in halt/reboot -p which causes it to set RB_POWEROFF & RB_HALT in the -p case. I feel as if HALT and POWEROFF are exclusive (ie: halt -p sets halt, but reboot -p does not). The patches I described can be used to enable the -p flag... The howto param from boot gets passed to the callout functions, so drivers can check if it's really their cue to shutdown. - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 14:45:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18959 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18799 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id BAA05980 ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:25:42 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803092225.BAA05980@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: from "Bruce M. Walter" at "Mar 9, 98 04:30:01 pm" To: walter@fortean.com (Bruce M. Walter) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:25:41 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What can be more standart, than ioctl(/dev/apm) for userland and > > apm_power_off for kernel stuff? > > > > Or should we call it machine_power_off() and place a hook in > > i386/machdep.c? > > The idea is to have a kernel callout hook using the at_shutdown interface. Ok. Please forgive me my stupidness - I still cannot understand what can be broken by calling something_power_off as a very last step of system shutdown procedure? Yes, all that at_shutdown, at_very_shutdown and so on may exist, but what difference does it make? > My personal feeling is that I don't want any APM code at all in my > kernels, especially my server boxes. I do want UPS shutdown code. With > the callout mechanism, I only get the shutdown code which is in the > drivers I use *AND* the kernel doesn't have to know diddly squat about > what ugly and convoluted things I need to do to turn off a UPS or > Motherbord from Vendor XYZ with APM version 99.34 :) APM provides (trough very unpleasant polling interface, yes) the more or less universal mechanism to do the job. How are you planning to power off without APM? Direct i/o programming - it would be a lot of work for nothing.. Or do you mean to switch to real mode after system has been shut down and only then initialize APM and call 0x5307 (by one function in which name there is no `apm' :))? Seems a bit reasonable for busy server (because of 1 Hz polling in APM), but only a bit.. Supposing even 100 cycles to check that no event happened - it's only about 0.00004 percent perfomance degrade. If I understood all wrong - I beg your pardon. It's only some hours ago I first time read that APM spec and started thinking around :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 14:58:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21786 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:58:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21765 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:58:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20232 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:58:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:58:07 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: YA EtherExpress? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the following: The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. Price: $895 Version: PILA8485 Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD support it? (If anyone knows the answer to my fast ethernet question, that'd be great too.) Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:02:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aries.fortean.com (aries.fortean.com [209.42.194.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22304 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:01:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by aries.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18130; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:58:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) X-Authentication-Warning: aries.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:58:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: Andrew Maltsev cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803092225.BAA05980@amsoft.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The idea is to have a kernel callout hook using the at_shutdown interface. > > Please forgive me my stupidness - I still cannot understand what can be > broken by calling something_power_off as a very last step of system > shutdown procedure? Yes, all that at_shutdown, at_very_shutdown and so > on may exist, but what difference does it make? Not stupidness! I just went through these same things and would hate to see someone else do the same thing :) Here's a fairly long winded overview of my particular case. It gives an example of the use/reasoning. The idea is that via at_shutdown, the kernel doesn't actually need to know anything specifi about the shutdown code. That code exists within the apm device driver and could even be an LKM outside the kernel. In my case, my ups driver loads, and waits for a go-ahead signal and configuration to come in via ioctl's from a monitoring daemon. Once the daemon gives the driver the go-ahead, the driver installs a poweroff function on the SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF queue via at_shutdown and begins to monitor the serial line to the UPS. If a powerfail occurs, the daemon is notified. When it decides to poweroff the system, executes the command 'reboot -p'. This starts a kernel shutdown with the RB_POWEROFF flag set. The system then goes through a regular reboot/shutdown sequence: 1) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_PRE_SYNC functions 2) Kill all processes 3) Sync the filesystem 4) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC functions 5) (with patches) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF functions 6) Halt if requested 7) Check for a panic 8) Reboot Steps 1, 4 and 5 call functions which can exist outside the kernel in drivers and LKM's. These functions have access to the RB_* flags passed to reboot and can do whatever they need to poweroff the system. My UPS driver sends the power inverter kill signal on the serial line when it's SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF function is called with the RB_POWEROFF flag. The kernel doesn't need any special poweroff functions, only the drivers. My argument would be for an APM device driver to register a poweroff function in this manner and check the RB_POWEROFF flag passed to reboot to see if it needs to poweroff when the function called... So it's not so much what you do, but how you do it :) - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:02:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22617 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:02:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22400 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26608; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd026580; Mon Mar 9 16:01:33 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04865; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:01:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803092301.QAA04865@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:01:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, julian@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Mar 9, 98 09:49:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > OLTP does not exists in Austria (i.e. not over Internet). The secure ******* > OLTP, at least what I mean by OLTP, is a concept/transaction type; On-Line > Transaction Processing. As Such it exists in Australia. Has nothing to do ********* 8-). I think he was thinking of OLTP in terms of E-Commerce services not existing in his country. > What I am trying to acomplish in this conversation, is that the range of > services and their sensitivity to interruption is wide. FreeBSD is > migrating from a hacker's desktop to a high caliber server. Some services > and features need to acompany this migration, or it will fail. > All O/Ss going into the service market are going through this perocess. M$ > Nice Try is already going there. This is a salient point. The ISP's who are interested in the HA aspects of such servers are more interested because of interruption of service issues, more than they are concerned with data-vaulting. I'm personally more concerned with being able to lock down the gears into a known-to-the-OS state, at all times. I can deal with rolling incomplete transactions back seperately, if I need transactions. The disk write cache is problematic. Most modern disks, when they lose DC, do *not* flush the dirty portion of their write cache. Because the cache is permitted to reorder operations without regard to their OS dependency order, this means that a write cache that's not written completely potentially damages dependency ordered data that the OS believes has been written. Dependency ordered data like that created by DOW or Soft Updates technologies. With disk write caching turned on, I still need a UPS to be able to do this reliably, since I have to (1) not add more work to the write cache which might potentially push out already delayed writes, and (2) cause the disk to flush it's write cache. High availability can also mean "comes back up quickly, and is robust in the face of deleterious conditions". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:05:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:05:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23254; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA26773; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:43:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA11086; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:43:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980309164320.63724@mcs.net> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:43:20 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Oh, how I hate it when I find leaks in mbuf clusters :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, Heh, dig this nice problem...... This morning I took down our 100BaseTX hub to replace it with an Intel 510T switch. It helped a lot :-) As a consequence, the servers sat unterminated on that interface for some 5-10 minutes. When I got done with the switch install I plugged it all in and turned the switch on, thinking nothing of it. BIG MISTAKE! It turns out that for some reason the NFS server code was queueing mbufs - and never getting them off the stack. Almost a dozen hours later, under the heaviest load of the day, down goes Mr. Server with a "out of mbuf clusters - increase MAXUSERS" error. Say what? (There's no way it legitimately ran out). It comes back up, and is running happily with 400-500 mbufs in use. When it panic'd it had to have over 15,000 of 'em on the stack. So I go check its sister machine (which hasn't died - yet) and find: $ netstat -m 20228/20544 mbufs in use: 20185 mbufs allocated to data 43 mbufs allocated to packet headers 2419/2686 mbuf clusters in use 7940 Kbytes allocated to network (92% in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines Yikes! Obviously, I'm going to have to shut it down before it shuts down for me :-) Anyone have ideas on this one? "dmesg" for the kernel is: Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Nov 22 13:41:31 CST 1997 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_NEWS CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x617 Stepping=7 Features=0xfbff real memory = 100663296 (98304K bytes) avail memory = 94986240 (92760K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 de0: rev 0x12 int a irq 9 on pci0.11.0 de0: SMC 9332DST 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de0: address 00:00:c0:2d:57:ed de0: enabling 10baseT port de1: rev 0x12 int a irq 10 on pci0.12.0 de1: SMC 9332DST 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de1: address 00:00:c0:35:57:ed de1: enabling 100baseTX port ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.13.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 34729MB (71124992 512 byte sectors) sd0: with 4341 cyls, 128 heads, and an average 128 sectors/track Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 ed1 not found at 0x300 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x3bc-0x3c3 irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 not found fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdreset: error1: 0x0 wdreset: error1: 0x0 wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 aha0 not found at 0x330 aic0 not found at 0x340 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers CC'd to hackers and -current; I've no idea where the "right" place for this one is, as this kernel isn't really "that" current. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:07:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:07:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rocksalt.mui.net ([207.12.13.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23704 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:06:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) From: ken@mui.net Received: from prune.mui.net (prune.mui.net [207.12.13.234]) by rocksalt.mui.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16334 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:06:10 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) Message-Id: <199803092306.NAA16334@rocksalt.mui.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:02:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: radius? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There are going to be 2 locations. Site A and site B have 2 different user databases. How does one set things up so that if they aren't in site A, then it passes it to site B? or is there a better way to handle this? Does it have something to do with Radius? Thanks, ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:08:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24231 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rocksalt.mui.net ([207.12.13.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24108 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) From: ken@mui.net Received: from prune.mui.net (prune.mui.net [207.12.13.234]) by rocksalt.mui.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16344 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:08:11 -1000 (HST) (envelope-from ken@mui.net) Message-Id: <199803092308.NAA16344@rocksalt.mui.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:04:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server > card for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes > with an on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU > and delivers even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput > than the standard PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a > PCI bus and a NetWare driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for > optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 ouch! for that price, I'd buy a better SCSI hard drive/controller, as I'd think that the bottleneck would be there, rather than the network card. ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:13:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:13:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25320 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:12:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA07691 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:17:54 -0500 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA19330; Mon, 9 Mar 98 18:12:16 EST Message-Id: <350477DA.67AF@njcc.com> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:14:34 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ken@mui.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: <199803090845.JAA02668@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> <199803092021.KAA16014@rocksalt.mui.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Die thread, DIE! Sorry, I just can't take it any more... Ken khansen@njcc.com ken@mui.net wrote: > > > b. Battery backup systems can live for minutes. If power needs > > extend > > into hours, mecahnical means of generating electrivity are > > needed. > > plus there are some models that have hot swappable batteries, > external battery packs, etc (APC) that can last for a few hours if > necessary. > > ken > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:22:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27338 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27249 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:21:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03833; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:21:05 GMT Message-ID: <3504793C.10FF30A0@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:20:28 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sthaug@nethelp.no, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance References: <35040C37.4D578C02@challenge.isvara.net> <22452.889461021@verdi.nethelp.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > Most (if not all) newer NICs which support DMA tranfer support > > scatter/gather lists. Another nice feature is protocol cheksumming in > > hardware. It's a shame all these tweaks for the internet stack aren't > > being worked on (like copy avoidance, h/w checksum support), and the > > list below: > > Actually, they *are* being worked on. I asked Craig Partridge, and I have > received code fragments which do part of what he describes. I'm trying to > integrate them into -current as best I can. Opps. I didn't consider my statement very well. This is excellent work, andis a boon for any FreeBSD user. These are *real nice* improvements. I am eagerly awaiting commits. Yeah. Keep us informed of any progress/changes, etc. That would be great. > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:28:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28391 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 29852 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Mar 1998 23:29:05 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-030698 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803092301.QAA04865@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:29:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 09-Mar-98 Terry Lambert wrote: ... > This is a salient point. The ISP's who are interested in the HA > aspects of such servers are more interested because of interruption > of service issues, more than they are concerned with data-vaulting. Sure. Clustering correctly, around a resilient and independant disk array will accomplish both. Each takes out of it what they want (service non-interruption, data integrity, or both) > I'm personally more concerned with being able to lock down the gears > into a known-to-the-OS state, at all times. I can deal with rolling > incomplete transactions back seperately, if I need transactions. Please elaborate (your metaphore brings images of broken gears in my lathe :-) > The disk write cache is problematic. Most modern disks, when they lose > DC, do *not* flush the dirty portion of their write cache. Because the > cache is permitted to reorder operations without regard to their OS > dependency order, this means that a write cache that's not written > completely potentially damages dependency ordered data that the OS > believes has been written. a. A good controller will allow you to selectively tune the cache, to the disk's abilities. b. A good controller will force caches on the attacjed drives to flush before it ACKs the shutdown command from the O/S. b. A UPS that will keep the disks running long enough for that. Any descent disk cabinet/shelf/bay has redundant power supplies, either 2N, or N+1. > Dependency ordered data like that created by DOW or Soft Updates > technologies. This becomes even more important when considering clustering filesystems. >From data resilence point of view, it is not as important. See above. > With disk write caching turned on, I still need a UPS to be able to > do this reliably, since I have to (1) not add more work to the write > cache which might potentially push out already delayed writes, and > (2) cause the disk to flush it's write cache. A reasonable UPS for a pc, is less than $100.00. > High availability can also mean "comes back up quickly, and is robust > in the face of deleterious conditions". True. To some it means ``I have backup on tape someplace in the drawer'', to others it means ``I never loose an e-mail message'', while some say ``I cannot lose service for more than N seconds''. I think we should try and serve them all. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:28:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:28:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28135; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02345; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199803092327.PAA02345@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG, karl@mcs.net Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate it when I find leaks in mbuf clusters :-) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm. Notice that even with this horrendous mbuf leak, there is less than 8 MB of memory allocated to the network. Given that memory keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, and that finding and eliminating memory leaks is time-consuming and error-prone, perhaps we should forget about freeing memory at all, and simply buy more. At today's prices, for example, it's probably not unreasonable for a server machine like Karl's to be equipped with 128 MB of memory dedicated to network buffers. By the time that runs out, it's likely to be even cheaper to add another 256 MB. Disposable diapers and contact lenses have worked out well; why not disposable memory? (Discarded DIMMs don't fill up the landfills as quickly as used diapers, either, and they also smell better.) Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:37:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00312 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id CAA06308 ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:30:03 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803092330.CAA06308@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: from "Bruce M. Walter" at "Mar 9, 98 05:58:54 pm" To: walter@fortean.com (Bruce M. Walter) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:30:03 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If a powerfail occurs, the daemon is notified. When it decides to > poweroff the system, executes the command 'reboot -p'. This starts a > kernel shutdown with the RB_POWEROFF flag set. The system then goes > through a regular reboot/shutdown sequence: > > 1) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_PRE_SYNC functions > 2) Kill all processes > 3) Sync the filesystem > 4) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC functions > 5) (with patches) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF functions > 6) Halt if requested > 7) Check for a panic > 8) Reboot > > Steps 1, 4 and 5 call functions which can exist outside the kernel in > drivers and LKM's. These functions have access to the RB_* flags passed > to reboot and can do whatever they need to poweroff the system. Ok. I understand. But should we distinguish devices and core system? All the time I mean powering off core system after all devices were shut down or powered down by their drivers - by at_shutdown queues or other means. So, step 8) should be: 8) reboot or power off, whatever requested. It's only thing I'm pretending for now :) For most systems (even server systems) it's enough according to my expirience.. But of course it would be nice to have easy way to manage power supply of any device (and then post calls to at_shutdown queues or register apropriate services). Only problem I see is how to correspond exact device to exact APM device id. It's known only to BIOS and only for devices BIOS understand (if I read spec right). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00856 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:38:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA04565; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:37:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:37:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Ken Hansen cc: ken@mui.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: <350477DA.67AF@njcc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Ken Hansen wrote: > Die thread, DIE! > > Sorry, I just can't take it any more... # tail -n 3 .procmailrc :0: * ^Subject:.Re:.SCSI Bus redundancy... /dev/null *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01275 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:39:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01135 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:39:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id PAA25418 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:38:31 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199803092338.PAA25418@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:38:31 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Snob Art Genre: > While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, > whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the > following: > > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card > for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an > on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers > even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard > PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare > driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 > > Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD > support it? Not exactly the same, but something similar. I came across at some time on a i960 based PCI card with a daughter module which could be either be ethernet/ATM Oc-3c/sync RS422. It used a PLX pci bridge chip 9060 (or something like that). I also have a FreeBSD driver for interfacing to the PLX chip. It is not robust, but handles DMA's with read, write ability on multiple open file descriptors. So what is the bridge chip that is used for the PCI interconnect? > > (If anyone knows the answer to my fast ethernet question, that'd be > great too.) > The function of switching is done by the hub or the ethernet switch and not the card. So, you effectively can use any fast ethernet card for switching depending on whetehr you are connected to a ethernet switch or not. Vinay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:42:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01882 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:42:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aries.fortean.com (aries.fortean.com [209.42.194.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01578 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by aries.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA19433; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:39:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) X-Authentication-Warning: aries.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:39:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" Reply-To: "Bruce M. Walter" To: Christopher Masto cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <19980309170728.03832@netmonger.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On a related note (perhaps), I have been led to believe that ATX machines > (which have a momentary power button instead of a switch), it is possible > to intercept the power button and shut down (or ignore it). Is this > true? If so, is it supported/supportable by FreeBSD? That I'm not sure of, coming from the UPS side of the problem, but I *bellieve* it's possible. Check the list for recent posts about how linux handles things. Also, Andrew Maltsev may know. - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01925 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (root@cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01720 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:41:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07462; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:07:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980309170728.03832@netmonger.net> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:07:28 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: Andrew Maltsev Cc: "Bruce M. Walter" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) References: <199803092107.AAA05671@amsoft.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.87.4 In-Reply-To: <199803092107.AAA05671@amsoft.ru>; from Andrew Maltsev on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 12:07:16AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 12:07:16AM +0300, Andrew Maltsev wrote: > > > I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to > > > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz > > > > > > What was done: > > > - kernel apm driver now able to power off system > > > - /sbin/shutdown has new flag `-p' to switch power off after shutdown > > > > The kernel poweroff stuff is important for my UPS work and patches have > > been submitted via send-pr for a shutdown queue for a while. I don't > > believe they've been committed though. We really need a standard (and > > safe) way of requesting the kernel to poweroff the machine. > > What can be more standart, than ioctl(/dev/apm) for userland and > apm_power_off for kernel stuff? > > Or should we call it machine_power_off() and place a hook in > i386/machdep.c? > > With `restore previous power state' bios option it would be perfect > colution for UPS support. On a related note (perhaps), I have been led to believe that ATX machines (which have a momentary power button instead of a switch), it is possible to intercept the power button and shut down (or ignore it). Is this true? If so, is it supported/supportable by FreeBSD? -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations, NetMonger Communications, Inc. +1-516-221-6664 http://www.netmonger.net/ info@netmonger.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 15:47:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:47:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aries.fortean.com (aries.fortean.com [209.42.194.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02847 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by aries.fortean.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA19471; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:45:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) X-Authentication-Warning: aries.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:45:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" Reply-To: "Bruce M. Walter" To: Andrew Maltsev cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803092330.CAA06308@amsoft.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok. I understand. But should we distinguish devices and core system? > All the time I mean powering off core system after all devices were shut > down or powered down by their drivers - by at_shutdown queues or other > means. Yes. When I say device, I mean device driver. You can look at a UPS or an APM bios extension as a 'device'. The code for specific functions belongs in the driver, where it's interacted with by userland, the kernel etc, etc. > > 1) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_PRE_SYNC functions > > 2) Kill all processes > > 3) Sync the filesystem > > 4) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POST_SYNC functions > > 5) (with patches) Execute all registered SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF functions > > 6) Halt if requested > > 7) Check for a panic > > 8) Reboot > > So, step 8) should be: > 8) reboot or power off, whatever requested. Well, I'm actually proposing it's taken out of the kernel (step 8) and put into the callout functions (step 5). The implementation of the SHUTDOWN_POWEROFF queue allows this by having a queue specifically for functions need to be called after EVERYTHING else related to shutdown is said and done. Steps 6,7 and 8 all are in the same category, but for various reasons stay in-kernel: Halt, because all it is is a tight loop. Panic (I presume) because it needs direct access to kernel information to perform a crash dump. Reboot is just a fallthrough which performs a hardware reset. - Bruce ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 16:03:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07243 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:03:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05264 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA12817; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:06:29 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA06724; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:06:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980310000627.12328@follo.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:06:27 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: nik@iii.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd(?) sh/make behaviour. References: <199802250423.UAA17980@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980225103215.15997@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980225103215.15997@iii.co.uk>; from nik@iii.co.uk on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:32:15AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:32:15AM +0000, nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > On a vaguely related note (I'm trying to port some of the FreeBSD makefiles > to use GNU make), does anyone know how to emulate the > > .if !target(foo) > foo: bar > do_something > .endif > > construct in GNU make? I spent most of yesterday working through the > documentation, Alta Vista and Deja News in search of an answer, and came > up with none. Yeah - the following should do it: # .if !target(foo) foo: bar do_something # .endif The first rule encountered are used, while the last variable definition encountered is used. Thus, just defining the target without any .if's should work. Now, have anybody got a good way of exporting variables from BSD make for me? .export seems to be missing... (Yes, I know I can type them in for a recursive make, but it doesn't quite fit my standards of 'user friendliness'.) > I suspect it might (in the long term) be simpler to port the BSD make to > Solaris. You're probably right. I'll see if we might happen to have a port of bmake for Solaris lying around - I seem to remember some of my co-workers saying they did one for a project here. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 16:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07574 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA07288 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yCBYk-0007mv-00; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:02:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:02:03 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: ken@mui.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: radius? In-Reply-To: <199803092306.NAA16334@rocksalt.mui.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 ken@mui.net wrote: > There are going to be 2 locations. Site A and site B have 2 > different user databases. How does one set things up so that if they > aren't in site A, then it passes it to site B? or is there a better > way to handle this? Merge the passwd files from both sites. > Does it have something to do with Radius? I don't know. Are you using Radius? Do you know what Radius is? > Thanks, > > ken Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 16:24:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12358 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:23:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03906; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:48:36 GMT Message-ID: <35047FAF.FDBEA594@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:48:00 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Snob Art Genre , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Snob Art Genre (!) wrote: > While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, > whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the > following: > > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card > for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an > on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers > even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard > PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare > driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 > > Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD > support it? It's Intel's attempt at a network card specifically for the server market, trying to catch on for it's low CPU utilization. With good ethernet card drivers, and extra tweaks in the internet stack for speed, _who_ needs the EtherExpress Pro/100 SmartAdapter???? Nobody. Especially at that cost. (I like the way is says '...has a PCI bus...' - wow what a new concept!) I don't think FreeBSD supports it. I'd be suprised to see anyone having one of these cards. As far as your original questions go: 'Switched' ethernet depends purely on the (switched) hub used, not the NIC. All the nodes on the local network share the same hub, but before switched hubs, data was broadcast to the whole network physically. AFAIK, 10Mb and 100Mb networks are functionally the same (apart from needing the extra hardware support), but both 10Mb and 100Mb carrier signals can be used. Thanks, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 16:25:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12516 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id DAA07308 ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:20:27 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803100020.DAA07308@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: from "Bruce M. Walter" at "Mar 9, 98 06:45:37 pm" To: walter@fortean.com Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:20:27 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So, step 8) should be: > > 8) reboot or power off, whatever requested. > > Well, I'm actually proposing it's taken out of the kernel (step 8) and put > into the callout functions (step 5). The implementation of the Oh, yes. I finally understand.. it took a time, may be because of my poor english, sorry. To say the truth I see no _big_ advantages in moving that code out of kernel.. to me it looks like a bit ``perfectionistic'' improvement.. which should be done, but.. Anyway, thank you for information and ideas. Andrew, going to sleep (it's 3:18am here in russia) with `shutdown -p +0' :)) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:05:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:05:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA21029 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA32636; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:56:57 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id KAA23371; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:05:05 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199803100105.KAA23371@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: "Bruce M. Walter" Cc: Andrew Maltsev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:11:15 EST." References: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:05:04 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to >> >> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz >> >> What was done: >> - kernel apm driver now able to power off system >> - /sbin/shutdown has new flag `-p' to switch power off after shutdown > >The kernel poweroff stuff is important for my UPS work and patches have >been submitted via send-pr for a shutdown queue for a while. I don't >believe they've been committed though. We really need a standard (and >safe) way of requesting the kernel to poweroff the machine. > >It would be nice if all of this stuff could work together???? > >- Bruce May I bring your attention to the PAO package: http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ which also implements power off via APM. It is also a good idea to discuss APM issues with hosokawa@freebsd.org who is knowledgable in this area. Kazu yokota@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24039 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23944 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id PAA22217; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:17:12 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199803092317.PAA22217@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Mar 9, 98 05:58:07 pm" To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:17:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Snob Art Genre: > While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, > whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the > following: > > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card > for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an > on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers > even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard > PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare > driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 > > Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD > support it? Not exactly the same, but something similar. I came across at some time on a i960 based PCI card with a daughter module which could be either be ethernet/ATM Oc-3c/sync RS422. It used a PLX pci bridge chip 9060 (or something like that). I also have a FreeBSD driver for interfacing to the PLX chip. It is not robust, but handles DMA's with read, write ability on multiple open file descriptors. So what is the bridge chip that is used for the PCI interconnect? > > (If anyone knows the answer to my fast ethernet question, that'd be > great too.) > The function of switching is done by the hub or the ethernet switch and not the card. So, you effectively can use any fast ethernet card for switching depending on whetehr you are connected to a ethernet switch or not. Vinay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:25:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:25:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA25262 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA32599; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:24:54 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id KAA24025; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:32:57 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199803100132.KAA24025@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Mike Smith Cc: "Bruce M. Walter" , Andrew Maltsev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:17:59 PST." <199803100118.RAA16777@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199803100118.RAA16777@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:32:57 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> May I bring your attention to the PAO package: >> http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ >> which also implements power off via APM. > >APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. >FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time >now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. It means that we had better formulate a framework in which both can be implemented and work in a standardized manner, right? Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29558 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29495 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16777; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:18:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803100118.RAA16777@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: "Bruce M. Walter" , Andrew Maltsev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:05:04 +0900." <199803100105.KAA23371@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:17:59 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ > which also implements power off via APM. APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:48:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:48:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from leviathan.ele.uri.edu (leviathan.ele.uri.edu [131.128.51.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29856 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:47:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hu@ele.uri.edu) Received: from anchor.ele.uri.edu (anchor [131.128.51.157]) by leviathan.ele.uri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08768 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:47:45 -0500 (EST) From: Yiming Hu Received: (from hu@localhost) by anchor.ele.uri.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10623 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:47:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803100147.UAA10623@anchor.ele.uri.edu> Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:47:45 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >That is 50ish times the sustained speed of most disk drives. And 25 >times faster than the fastest generally deployed network technology >(100BaseT). > >Anyway, we're talking at most 2-4% savings here at the cost of a huge >amount of kernel bloat. > >Warner Well, in some systems, avoiding copying can result in a BIG save. I'm not sure about FreeBSD, but my experience on AIX shows that Apache can benefit a lot from "transfer-file" type system calls. I believe that you can save more than 20-30% of CPU overhead on a busy server. I have a technology report at ftp://ele.uri.edu/pub/hu/TR10970001.ps.Z which discusses this topic. MIT's ServerOS paper is another good reference. BTW, such a system call will not only improve Web server performance, but also speed up file server performance, which also ships large volume of data from the file-system (cache) to the network. -Yiming To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 17:48:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00229 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12732; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:44:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803100144.RAA12732@implode.root.com> To: Snob Art Genre cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:58:07 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:44:38 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, >whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the >following: > > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card > for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an > on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers > even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard > PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare > driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 > >Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD >support it? Yes, probably not, no. :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 18:02:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04793 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osshe.edu (OSSHE.EDU [140.211.10.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04761 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:02:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sugalskd@osshe.edu) Received: from beech (southbeach.CONET.OSSHE.EDU [140.211.15.50]) by osshe.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14514; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:02:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980309180216.00a15320@osshe.edu> X-Sender: sugalskd@osshe.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:02:16 -0800 To: Christopher Masto , perl5-porters@perl.com, nvp@mediaone.net From: Dan Sugalski Subject: Re: Perl, Threads, FreeBSD, High Weirdness Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980309152332.35831@netmonger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:23 PM 3/9/1998 -0500, Christopher Masto wrote: >Here are the latest results of my investigations into _62's thread >situation: [Snip] >Pretending the last line is fixed, this test still fails on FreeBSD >(2.2.5-stable as of yesterday). I don't know why, but I do know that >threads are simply not working. They do not run concurrently. > >This test program: > > use Thread; > > $t = Thread->new(sub { print "AAA\n" while 1; }); > while (1) { > print "---\n"; > sleep 1; > } > >Produces this output: > >--- >--- >--- >--- >--- >(ad infinitum) > >If the main program ever performs a $t->join or exits, the AAA thread >takes over and actually can't be stopped with a ^C or ^\ (but kill -9 >from another session works). > >Either I'm completely misunderstanding the semantics of the Thread stuff >(the documentation _is_ a bit skimpy right now (I will try to help remedy >that if I ever get this working)), or something's truly screwy. While I can't speak for FreeBSD, for OpenVMS this does work as expected--a line of ---, then a jillion AAA lines with the odd --- scattered in there. (Not many, I didn't let the test run too long :) Dunno if it's an issue, but the POSIX threading does have a number of different scheduling options for threads, and I had to do a special link on OpenVMS to enable kernel threads. (Without the magic link option, multiple threads wouldn't run on multiple processors) Depending on the defaults, I can see this behaviour. (it looks like SCHED_FIFO's the default policy with no thread rescheduling on blocking syscalls) Maybe there are some special flags you need to feed to the C compiler, or linker, or something. Dan ---------------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------- Dan Sugalski (541) 737-3346 even samurai SysAdmin have teddy bears Oregon University System and even the teddy bears sugalskd@ous.edu get drunk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 18:07:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06104 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05899 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:05:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id LAA18980; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:05:44 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:05:44 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199803100205.LAA18980@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Cc: mike@smith.net.au, walter@fortean.com, am@amsoft.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:32:57 +0900". <199803100132.KAA24025@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199803100132.KAA24025@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp writes: >> It means that we had better formulate a framework in which both can be >> implemented and work in a standardized manner, right? -current has already had APM power-off feature. I've also implemented it in extended at_shutdown() manner for PAO, but -current uses i386/machdep.c. I think both implementations are reasonable, so I have no plan to replace -current code with mine or something else. Sorry. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 18:50:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14137 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14086 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27760 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd027758; Mon Mar 9 18:47:18 1998 Message-ID: <3504A8B3.500F9F30@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:43:00 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Re: Synchronous Mirroring for FreeBSD] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Return-Path: Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27162 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd027160; Mon Mar 9 18:26:18 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA24808 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.whistle.com(207.76.204.2) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024806; Mon Mar 9 18:26:13 1998 Received: (from smap@localhost) by gatekeeper.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA20178 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.northlink.com(prescott.northlink.com 209.75.160.32) by gatekeeper via smap (V2.0) id xma020175; Mon, 9 Mar 98 18:25:48 -0800 Received: (from warp9@localhost) by smtp.northlink.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) id TAA22322; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:25:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:25:46 -0700 (MST) From: "A.J. Werner" To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Synchronous Mirroring for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <350473BC.7DE14518@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry to be so vague. Here is what synchronous mirroring is defined as: "Mirroring maintains a copy of data on physically separate systems connected by a network that supports TCP/IP. The product captures I/O changes in real time as they occur on the primary server, then continuously and automatically send those changes across the network to target servers anywhere in the world. (Ours would be right next to each other) Mirroring is performed at the disk block level, ensuring the continuous protection of both file systems and databases on raw partitions. Open architecture allows the product to be used with any stoarge device, file system and volume manager, allowing organizations to add data protection without changing their existing hardware or software." Again, thanks for any info you have on this! On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > A.J. Werner wrote: > > > > Dear FreeBSD.ORG, > > > > I have searched the Net looking for a program much like Qualix Group's > > DataStar that would allow our servers to have synchronous mirroring. > > Qualix and Digital have been the only two commercially available products > > that I have found to do this, but Qualix's and Digital's product supports > > only HP-UX & AIX, and Digital's version of UNIX as well. I have found some > > products that support Solaris on top of this, but nothing that will support > > FreeBSD. > > Do you know of any product that is available for synchronous mirroring for > > FreeBSD? A major plus would be the cost as well. Qualix's DataStar sells > > for around $20,000 per server pair. Thanks for any help you can give! > > > > Sincerely, > > A.J. Werner > > Northlink Technical Support > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > If you described what > "synchronous mirroring" is in a better way, > then it would be easier to answer.. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 19:05:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17672 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:04:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27247; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:48:03 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199803092348.XAA27247@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Luigi Rizzo cc: brian@Awfulhak.org (Brian Somers), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird problem (lost packets) in iijppp In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:26:41 +0100." <199803091726.SAA07386@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:48:03 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Currently, there are two output queue sets, one IP queue set and one > > modem queue set. Each queue set consists of two queues, a fast one > > (interactive traffic in the IP set, non-NCP traffic in the modem set) > > and a slow one. Stuff is compressed just before moving from the IP > > set into the slow modem queue. > > regarding the IP queues, keeping two static queues is not very nice. > i think it would be much better to implement some sort of "fair > queueing" since the code is already available (e.g. the ALTQ > package) and could be easily integrated i believe. This would also > allow better queueing policies, integration with filtering, aliasing, > etc. etc. The queueing is pretty simple at the moment - I agree it could be fairer. > Compression is applied in the wrong place, since doing it before > passing through the modem queues prevents from doing some reordering of > packets later. One wouldn't care normally, except that transmission > times on a modem line are non-negligible, thus the chance that one > might want to push forward some interactive packet might be significant. Ppp compression is done per packet according to the rfc. There's no facility for splitting packets when compression is involved - not without changing the rfc. The objective here should be to keep the modem queue(s) as small as possible - there should be zero to one packets in the slow queue, and the slow queue is the only thing that can be compressed. This isn't actually true in the MP branch (for now), and the -current and -stable code is hideous and almost definitely wrong. When this queue shifting stuff is corrected, changing the MTU should make more of a difference. Compression is applied in the only place it can be applied - just before the packet gets HDLC'd and enters the modem queue (and is therefore a candidate for transmission). Once something makes it into that modem queue, it's as good as sent and cannot be skipped by another packet. This becomes even more true in the multilink case as everything is sequenced too (there is room to re-sequence to a certain extent, but not much if the modem queues are kept as small as possible). The two IP queues facilitate (crude) packet skipping now. This is where the complication should be built - not at the modem level. > Also, doing compression before the modem queue prevents you from doing > smart things with multiple lines, such as splitting long packets into > smaller fragments and sending them in parallel and reassembling at the > other end... This should only be done at the IP queue level. > My approach would be: > - at least replace the modem queues with a single, fair-queuing > mechanism; We can replace the IP queues - not the modem queues (see above). > - add, in parallel, a prioritary queue for link control traffic > (the 'fast modem queue'); > - add options to split in-progress packets; > here a fragment is either a whole link-control-packet (from the fast > modem queue) or a small block (say 64..256 bytes) from the IP queues. > This would be used both to handle better interactive response, > and to get improved performance from parallel lines (see below) I don't get what you're trying to say here. We can't start sending fragments to the other side. It won't know what we're talking about.... it's not in the rfc.... > - do compression only when a fragment has been selected for > unconditional write to the modem line. Since pred1 compression is > _very_ fast, it is reasonable to do it right before the write() of > the fragment. > > - keep compression state per line. Since the pred1 status is > only 64KB, i think one can really afford the additional memory. There are two levels of compression in the multilink case. One at the link level and one at the bundle level. > > Basically the forwarding loop would be > > ... select on the set of outgoing modem lines ... > S = set of modem lines returning ready for write ; > for (; S not empty && have_packets_in_queue ; ) { > for (i in S) { > get a fragment from the queue ; > > compress fragment using per-line status; > enqueue compressed fragment on line i > if (enough data queued on line i) remove i from S > } > } > for (i in S) > send block on the line i; > > there would be some small overhead per fragment to mark boundaries > among fragments of different packets, but probably nothing very > relevant: e.g. add > > ESC to mark the first fragment of an incomplete packet, and > ESC to mark subsequent fragments of the above. Imaybe one also > has to add a few bits to mark the link where the previous fragment > was... but then part of this info could be merged with the various > header compression techniques. > Although a bit tricky, I think this would be very effective > to reduce delays. > > Of course, we'd need some new PPP option to enable this enhanced > features. > > > Is this what you have in mind ? Wouldn't we be better off suffering > > the overhead of a smaller MTU ? After all, with VJ compression, > > there isn't that much overhead in sending out shorter packets. > > this is the simplest solution in the short term i agree, but since > somebody was working on ppp i thought it was worth discussing the > subject... Maybe, but I have no idea how to go about writing an rfc and getting it added by internic.... > cheers > luigi -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 19:16:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19951 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:16:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19935 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA04363; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:39:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA23025; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:38:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:38:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199803100238.TAA23025@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: "Bruce M. Walter" , Andrew Maltsev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803100105.KAA23371@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> References: <199803100105.KAA23371@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I've uploaded my patch (2.2-stable based) to > >> > >> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/am-atx-power-off.patch.gz ... > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ > which also implements power off via APM. Reall? > It is also a good idea to discuss APM issues with hosokawa@freebsd.org > who is knowledgable in this area. Actually, sending email to mobile@FreeBSD.org is the best place. Him, I, and PHK have copyrights on the APM files in FreeBSD. (I haven't kept up with the recent discussions as I'm snowed under at work.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 19:52:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26156 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (GLUCK.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.242.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26048; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rvb@gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu) Received: (from rvb@localhost) by gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09322; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:55:26 -0500 (EST) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Terry Lambert , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, dkelly@hiwaay.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: <24443.889409587@time.cdrom.com> <199803090227.TAA14706@usr08.primenet.com> <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com> From: rvb@gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (Robert V. Baron) Date: 09 Mar 1998 22:55:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:36:36 +1030 Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.46/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: Its a little late to mention this, but Caldera sold/sells Wabi, a product licensed from SUN that emulates the win 3.1 interface. It runs 3.1 products including 3.1 Office pretty well. Unfortunately, SUN decided not to make a win32 version of Wabi, so the product is pretty much dead. NOTE: Wabi is a linux product. I am currently running it on NetBSD under emulation. I presume it could run on FreeBSD as well (and may find out some day). PS It did stress the emulation a bit (on signal handling) and I had to rewrite that part of the linux emulation, so this might be necessary on FreeBSD as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 19:58:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27495 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:58:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27368 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:57:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: from pasta.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (pasta.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.4]) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) with ESMTP id MAA19592; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:47:44 +0900 (JST) Received: by pasta.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.4W5-ntc_mailclient1.00) id MAA01770; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:47:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:47:43 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199803100347.MAA01770@pasta.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: mike@smith.net.au Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, walter@fortean.com, am@amsoft.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:17:59 -0800". <199803100118.RAA16777@dingo.cdrom.com> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199803100118.RAA16777@dingo.cdrom.com> mike@smith.net.au writes: >> > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: >> > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ >> > which also implements power off via APM. >> >> APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. >> FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time >> now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. Hmm? I read roughly the patch mentioned in the first mail of this thread, and I can't find any essential difference between it and -current, and I have heard and tested that PAO shutdown power-off code works under ATX machines. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 20:01:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28484 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:01:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (GLUCK.CODA.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.242.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28401 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:00:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rvb@gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu) Received: (from rvb@localhost) by gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09331; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:05:33 -0500 (EST) To: Marc Slemko Cc: Chris Csanady , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel wishlist for web server performance References: From: rvb@gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu (Robert V. Baron) Date: 09 Mar 1998 23:05:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: Marc Slemko's message of Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:30:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: Lines: 7 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.46/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc Slemko writes: What I don't understand in using SendFile and avoiding the copy to mbuf's is where does TCP fit in. We are using tcpip for the web. When I send a packet, I will eventually, get an acknowledge or I won't. I may have to resend a "packet" I sent earlier. Who worries about this detail, SendFile or the TCP implementation? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 20:02:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28838 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:02:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28732 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:02:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17338; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:56:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803100356.TAA17338@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: mike@smith.net.au, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, walter@fortean.com, am@amsoft.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:47:43 +0900." <199803100347.MAA01770@pasta.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:56:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: > >> > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ > >> > which also implements power off via APM. > >> > >> APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. > >> FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time > >> now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. > > Hmm? I read roughly the patch mentioned in the first mail of this > thread, and I can't find any essential difference between it and > -current, and I have heard and tested that PAO shutdown power-off code > works under ATX machines. Odd; I had expected that it *would*, but when I tried it on my brand new ASUS board it didn't, nor on the Tyan box next to me. Suspend works (but not with the power button), but power off didn't, hence the conclusion that something "different" was involved. Sounds like I should try it again to be sure. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 20:39:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05773 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05688 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:39:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25800; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd025789; Mon Mar 9 21:39:05 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27415; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:39:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803100439.VAA27415@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Fault tolerance issues To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:39:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Mar 9, 98 03:29:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm personally more concerned with being able to lock down the gears > > into a known-to-the-OS state, at all times. I can deal with rolling > > incomplete transactions back seperately, if I need transactions. > > Please elaborate (your metaphore brings images of broken gears in my lathe > :-) I want to make it so that if the power fails, if you have soft updates, you don't need to clean your disk. If you shutdown normally, or panic, the uncommited writes get flushed from the disk cache by the disk (because it doesn't know from reset in the time it takes to panic or crash). Part of this would include implementing "soft read-only" to go with the soft updates. In soft read-only, if there is nothing in the syncer queue when a sync occurs, you mark the fs "soft read-only", set the clean flag in the superblock, and write the superblock out. The marking tells you that you can write to the FS, but only after you have unset the clean flag. Basically, if a BSD system is idle, you would be able to pull the DOS-weenie trick of just turning it off, and no matter how large the disk, the thing will come back clean. This is incidently why the movement of the R/O handling code that happened a while back was a bad thing. > b. A good controller will force caches on the attacjed drives to flush > before it ACKs the shutdown command from the O/S. > > b. A UPS that will keep the disks running long enough for that. Any > descent disk cabinet/shelf/bay has redundant power supplies, either 2N, > or N+1. The second 'b' is a 'c', right? 8-). The thing is that I don't want to use a UPS. > > With disk write caching turned on, I still need a UPS to be able to > > do this reliably, since I have to (1) not add more work to the write > > cache which might potentially push out already delayed writes, and > > (2) cause the disk to flush it's write cache. > > A reasonable UPS for a pc, is less than $100.00. What if I were, say, building an appliance-type device? 8-) 8-). > > High availability can also mean "comes back up quickly, and is robust > > in the face of deleterious conditions". > > True. To some it means ``I have backup on tape someplace in the drawer'', > to others it means ``I never loose an e-mail message'', while some say ``I > cannot lose service for more than N seconds''. I think we should try and > serve them all. Yes. I'm thinking of the middle ground, where there isn't a UPS, and you want the OS to be happy in event of a sudden power loss, whether it somes from the user flipping a switch, or it comes from a line outage. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 21:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:07:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11804 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:06:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01510; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd001491; Mon Mar 9 21:45:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28009; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:44:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803100444.VAA28009@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) To: am@amsoft.ru (Andrew Maltsev) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:44:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: walter@fortean.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803100020.DAA07308@amsoft.ru> from "Andrew Maltsev" at Mar 10, 98 03:20:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Well, I'm actually proposing it's taken out of the kernel (step 8) and put > > into the callout functions (step 5). The implementation of the > > Oh, yes. I finally understand.. it took a time, may be because of my > poor english, sorry. > > To say the truth I see no _big_ advantages in moving that code out of > kernel.. to me it looks like a bit ``perfectionistic'' improvement.. > which should be done, but.. I did something similar to this for SYSINIT. The easiest thing to do is to put the functions into one linker set per queue, and then bubble-sort them in place. The code doesn't have to be fast. The main advantage is that I can have 0 or more "power devices", and everything will "just work". It just depends on what you do or don't link into your kernel, not putting specific knowledge of the devices into the places where the events occur. I believe Julian is committing the third queue patch (or already has); he's the guy who originally did the code in the first place. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 21:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050ndd.san.rr.com (root@dt050ndd.san.rr.com [204.210.31.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18860 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (dougdougdougdoug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050ndd.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04085; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:53:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3504D572.3630C29B@dal.net> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 21:53:54 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE-0308 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: <24443.889409587@time.cdrom.com> <199803090227.TAA14706@usr08.primenet.com> <19980309133636.38119@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 2:27:50 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> Wine has always required more than a "little push", it's required a > >> Saturn rocket up the ass. When compared to real solutions like SoftPC > >> from Insignia solutions, it's not even close to being sufficient for > >> the intended purpose (running popular Win95 binaries, in case people > >> forgot) and I doubt that it ever will be. > > > > I agree with Jordan on this one. Even quadrupling my time estimates, > > I come out with under 3 years for a small 5 man team to make a WIN32 > > capable of running MicroSoft Office. The 5 coders would have to be > > *serious* about getting the job done. The WINE project, though well > > intentioned, just doesn't seem very serious to me. 8-(. > > OK. This agrees with what I've seen. Maybe they're just not the > world's best hackers. They aren't bad programmers actually, but they do things pretty fast and loose (which is in fitting with the permanent-alpha level of the project). They are also extremely linux-centric. > Is anybody interested in doing better? What > are the real problems with doing it right? It seems to me that the > most difficult one is getting documentation, but even a big API is > still finite. Comments? I would love it a lot if someone wanted to step up on this one. I've often said that I would love to help with testing patches and such. My coding ability is still very much at the neophyte level. As for the API, it's freely available, the problem is that many programs use undocumented calls, including and especially MS apps. If someone were really looking to get started on this, I'd say scrap win 3.1 support altogether and work exclusively on win 32. I have one app that I really want to get working, and bochs won't help me since it's an internet app. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 22:44:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25021 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA24965 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 22824 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Mar 1998 06:52:10 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-030698 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803100439.VAA27415@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 22:52:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: RE: Fault tolerance issues Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Mar-98 Terry Lambert wrote: >> > I'm personally more concerned with being able to lock down the gears >> > into a known-to-the-OS state, at all times. I can deal with rolling >> > incomplete transactions back seperately, if I need transactions. >> >> Please elaborate (your metaphore brings images of broken gears in my >> lathe >> :-) > > I want to make it so that if the power fails, if you have soft updates, > you don't need to clean your disk. > > If you shutdown normally, or panic, the uncommited writes get flushed > from the disk cache by the disk (because it doesn't know from reset > in the time it takes to panic or crash). There are hardware features in place today to take care of this problem during normal shutdown. Panics are no-man's land. A disk driver (ide, SCSI HBA, etc.) Should make an ``at_shutdown'' call which will make sure the driver is called when... the system shuts down. I belive Julian had something to do with this feature. I added it to the DPT driver; In addition to a megabyte or so on every disk, we can have 64MB of cache on the controller. Resetting at the wrong time gets very ugly very quickly, and soft update are of no use at all. Also, the current SCSI management code will ALLOW MEDIA RMOVAL on the last close on a device, which will force most descent HBAs to flush caches and arrange for the same with their disks. > Part of this would include implementing "soft read-only" to go with > the soft updates. > > In soft read-only, if there is nothing in the syncer queue when a > sync occurs, you mark the fs "soft read-only", set the clean flag > in the superblock, and write the superblock out. > > The marking tells you that you can write to the FS, but only after > you have unset the clean flag. > > Basically, if a BSD system is idle, you would be able to pull the > DOS-weenie trick of just turning it off, and no matter how large > the disk, the thing will come back clean. I always wondered why this is not so. Not even after sync(2). > This is incidently why the movement of the R/O handling code that > happened a while back was a bad thing. > > >> b. A good controller will force caches on the attacjed drives to flush >> before it ACKs the shutdown command from the O/S. >> >> b. A UPS that will keep the disks running long enough for that. Any >> descent disk cabinet/shelf/bay has redundant power supplies, either >> 2N, >> or N+1. > > The second 'b' is a 'c', right? 8-). Picky, picky... > The thing is that I don't want to use a UPS. I do not want to use hardware at all :-) The best computer is a cuamber in a shoe box; Simple, no moving parts, easy to replace, easy to tell if bad and good for the diet. Seriously, hardware can simplify life a lot. It is a matter of cost. Most people will accept that their $3,000 computer has to be protected by a $75 UPS. >> > With disk write caching turned on, I still need a UPS to be able to >> > do this reliably, since I have to (1) not add more work to the write >> > cache which might potentially push out already delayed writes, and >> > (2) cause the disk to flush it's write cache. >> >> A reasonable UPS for a pc, is less than $100.00. > > What if I were, say, building an appliance-type device? 8-) 8-). Sure. How much do you sell this apliance for? Better, how valuable is the integrity of this apliance? UPSs tend to protect computers from things sodtware does not (spikes, glitches, brown-outs, etc.). ... > Yes. I'm thinking of the middle ground, where there isn't a UPS, > and you want the OS to be happy in event of a sudden power loss, > whether it somes from the user flipping a switch, or it comes from > a line outage. You can advance this idea only so far. And for what cost? Software has bugs. What is the uptime ratio between these software modifications described here and a UPS? Even if YOU write ALL this code :-) I think that software solutions to problems like this are great, as long as they still allow for hardware solutions to augment/complement them. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 23:10:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29616 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:10:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tahiti.oss.uswest.net (tahiti.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29513 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rantapaa@uswest.net) Received: (from rantapaa@localhost) by tahiti.oss.uswest.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA28400; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:09:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:09:45 -0600 (CST) From: Erik E Rantapaa To: ken@mui.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: radius? In-Reply-To: <199803092306.NAA16334@rocksalt.mui.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 ken@mui.net wrote: > There are going to be 2 locations. Site A and site B have 2 > different user databases. How does one set things up so that if they > aren't in site A, then it passes it to site B? or is there a better > way to handle this? The easiest way I've found is to merge the password files. Helpful tip: when building large db file (version 1.85), set the cache size (in the openinfo structure) to be as large as possible. The optimal seems to be a little less than the final size of the db file (oddly enough, having a cache larger than the db degrades performance slightly). This will greatly improve the speed of pwd_mkdb and yp_mkdb. The same holds true for DB2. > Does it have something to do with Radius? ??? Radius doesn't have anything to do with Unix user authentication. There are radius servers which will proxy requests, but it's not really anything close to logically merging two user databases. Regards, Erik Rantapaa rantapaa@uswest.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 23:15:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00578 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00572 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:15:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) From: tcobb@staff.circle.net Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:05:59 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA2@freya.circle.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PAM? Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:05:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There have been a few threads about a FreeBSD PAM implementation off and on over the past 6 months. My understand was that someone had done an initial hack of it. Who? Where? Does it work? :) Thanks! - Troy Cobb Circle Net, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 23:21:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01484 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:21:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) From: tcobb@staff.circle.net Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:11:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA3@freya.circle.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UNION FS appropriate? Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the current known state of UNION FS? Here's my situation: I have a set of directories which contain a user's files (mostly web stuff). FTP chroots nicely into this space, and I have other public services which do so, too. All of these files are served from a primary NFS server. What I'd like to do is mount these directories on a new box, and then allow a chrooted telnet. The telnet side I can handle just fine, but I need to 'overlay' onto these directories such stock binaries as chmod,ping,vi, etc. This will allow me to let folks telnet in, and have a usable experience, but not require separate copies of these binaries in each chroot-space. Is this possible with UNION? Is UNION stable enough to handle being dynamically mapped on login? If so, I can find very little information on how to *actually* use it. Ultimately, I'll need to have several overlays of the same files into separate directories for this purpose. Pointers appreciated. - Troy Cobb Circle Net, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 9 23:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03840 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03835 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:40:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04562; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004559; Mon Mar 9 23:35:10 1998 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:30:51 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: tcobb@staff.circle.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNION FS appropriate? In-Reply-To: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA3@freya.circle.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You don't need chroot. Have a single copy of each binary on the server, but have a link (hard link) to each chroot directory. that way you only need one copy of each. On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 tcobb@staff.circle.net wrote: > > What is the current known state of UNION FS? > > Here's my situation: > > I have a set of directories which contain a user's files (mostly web > stuff). FTP chroots nicely into this space, and I have other public > services which do so, too. All of these files are served from a primary > NFS server. What I'd like to do is mount these directories on a new > box, and then allow a chrooted telnet. The telnet side I can handle > just fine, but I need to 'overlay' onto these directories such stock > binaries as chmod,ping,vi, etc. This will allow me to let folks telnet > in, and have a usable experience, but not require separate copies of > these binaries in each chroot-space. Is this possible with UNION? Is > UNION stable enough to handle being dynamically mapped on login? > > If so, I can find very little information on how to *actually* use it. > Ultimately, I'll need to have several overlays of the same files into > separate directories for this purpose. > > Pointers appreciated. > > - Troy Cobb > Circle Net, Inc. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 01:07:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15727 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:07:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20367; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:07:04 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA08296; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:07:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980310100702.65530@follo.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:07:02 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: tcobb@staff.circle.net Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNION FS appropriate? References: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA3@freya.circle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:30:51PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:30:51PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > You don't need chroot. I'm fairly certain Julian is trying to say 'union' here, just to clear up any confusion. > Have a single copy of each binary on the server, but have a link (hard > link) to each chroot directory. > that way you only need one copy of each. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 01:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17086 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17074 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:11:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) From: tcobb@staff.circle.net Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:01:35 -0500 Message-ID: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA7@freya.circle.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: UNION FS appropriate? Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:01:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, March 10, 1998 4:07 AM, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:30:51PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > You don't need chroot. > > I'm fairly certain Julian is trying to say 'union' here, just to clear > up any confusion. > Yup. For those watching from home, it appears that the solution to my dilemma may in fact be NULLFS. I've now done a test quick test on a dog of a machine (P75, 32MB) mounting 1000 NULLFS mounts with no discernable issues. The only problem I can find is that the NULLFS implementation doesn't respect rdonly mount options. I suspect that it uses the mount options of the underlying FS. Still exploring that part of it. - Troy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 01:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18941 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:25:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18905; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:25:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12518; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd012506; Tue Mar 10 02:25:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA13727; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:25:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803100925.CAA13727@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Oh, how I hate it when I find leaks in mbuf clusters :-) To: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:25:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, karl@mcs.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803092327.PAA02345@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> from "Jim Shankland" at Mar 9, 98 03:27:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmm. Notice that even with this horrendous mbuf leak, there is less > than 8 MB of memory allocated to the network. > > Given that memory keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, and that finding > and eliminating memory leaks is time-consuming and error-prone, > perhaps we should forget about freeing memory at all, and simply > buy more. At today's prices, for example, it's probably not > unreasonable for a server machine like Karl's to be equipped with > 128 MB of memory dedicated to network buffers. By the time that > runs out, it's likely to be even cheaper to add another 256 MB. Sun had a memory leak on the platforms for the "a day on the Internet" or something similarly named, last year. Between all of the machines and all of the streaming video from all over the world, they were leaking 20,000 Commodore 64's an hour. 8^). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 01:55:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26076 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26038 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06624; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:57:01 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:57:00 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Graham Wheeler cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <199803091606.SAA08725@cdsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Graham Wheeler wrote: > This all seems a bit off topic but... > > > > What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that > > > various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are > > > you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be > > > rewritten? > > > > Isn't photon the proprietary GUI from those people who build realtime > > POSIX certified kernels? If so, I don't think it's X11 source compatible, > > and I believe you cannot use it as an X server. > > Photon is a proprietary windowing system that is used by QNX. If I remember > correctly then there are libraries which will allow Photon apps to be > compiled and run under X or messy windows, but not vice-versa. There are also some other windowing systems, which _could_ be developed to make a small replacement for X. The ones I'm aware of are: Bellcore's MGR (long dead, no widget toolkits etc.), and W (still developed by Eero Tamminen -though slowly- includes the widget toolkit and some apps {even HTML 1.0 browser}). _If_ there were any office applications available (in source), it would be possible to port them and create a "thin client". But this is a big IF... and I think it evaluates to false :-/ Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 02:20:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01021 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00986; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09949; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:09:51 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:09:50 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: tcobb@staff.circle.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-Reply-To: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA2@freya.circle.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 tcobb@staff.circle.net wrote: > There have been a few threads about a FreeBSD PAM implementation off and > on over the past 6 months. My understand was that someone had done an > initial hack of it. Who? Where? Does it work? :) I think Mike Smith did an initial hack, as you call it, but then was swamped with millions of other tasks :-). Last time I asked (2 weeks ago?) it seemed that it's left rotting in the corner. I for one could do something with it (or with something similar), because I all the time have to hack login and ftp to support SecurID tokens, and besides I'm going to try to hack a radius-ified login. But all of this is pretty hackish under current authentication scheme - there is no clean solution, and the same things are scattered in multiple places... :-/ If you think there is some auth scheme/package that would be worth implementing, I might take a look at it. Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 02:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02276 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:29:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorikeet.doc.ic.ac.uk (Prpd8wb4+ixjKQKfV52F8hHFUOA5+CN8@lorikeet.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.43.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA02254 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak74.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.74] ([2XwPYWmzxW4g79A7S8YU1T4aqO58j8fD]) by lorikeet.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yCMDv-0006hH-00; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:25:27 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak74.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yCM5R-00009p-00; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:16:41 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:16:41 +0000 In-Reply-To: Studded "Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?)" (Mar 9, 9:53pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Studded , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 9, 9:53pm, Studded wrote: > > If someone were really looking to get started on this, I'd say scrap > win 3.1 support altogether and work exclusively on win 32. I have one > app that I really want to get working, and bochs won't help me since > it's an internet app. > > Doug > > -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest > *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) Hmmm, is it mIRC? ;) Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 02:35:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03261 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:35:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sentry.wipsys.soft.net (sentry.wipsys.soft.net [164.164.25.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA02720 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:31:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sak@wipsys.soft.net) Received: by sentry.wipsys.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA17901; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:01:11 -0500 Received: from lme2(164.164.1.18) by sentry via smap (V2.0) id xma017892; Tue, 10 Mar 98 16:00:52 -0500 Received: from sak.wipsys.soft.net by lme2.wipsys.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20699; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:07:31 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980309154910.007cc2e0@164.164.1.18> X-Sender: sak@164.164.1.18 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:49:10 +0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org, tech@openbsd.org From: S A Kulkarni Subject: Hello Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am S.A.Kulkarni, Manager-Training, WIPRO SYSTEMS, Bangalore ( INDIA ).I came to know about Dr.McKusick's classes and video tapes of his training sessions.We are quite keen to purchase the video tapes of Dr.McKusick's sessions on BSD UNIX.Kindly let me know the person/e-mail ID regarding this. with regards, SAK. S.A.Kulkarni, Manager - Training, WIPRO SYSTEMS, No:271, Sri Ganesh Complex, Hosur Main Road, Madivala, Bangalore - 560 068. Phone No: +91-80-5539134 / +91-80-5539138 Extn : 403 ( Office ) +91-80-6672674 ( Residence ) Fax No: +91-80-5539701 / +91-80-5539702 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 04:11:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA14650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:11:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050ndd.san.rr.com (root@dt050ndd.san.rr.com [204.210.31.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA14639 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:11:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (dougdougdougdoug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050ndd.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09366; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35052DC6.E3A4B42C@dal.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:10:46 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE-0308 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Niall Smart CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Niall Smart wrote: > > On Mar 9, 9:53pm, Studded wrote: > > > > If someone were really looking to get started on this, I'd say scrap > > win 3.1 support altogether and work exclusively on win 32. I have one > > app that I really want to get working, and bochs won't help me since > > it's an internet app. > > > > Doug > > > > -- > > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > > *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest > > *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. > > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) > > Hmmm, is it mIRC? ;) Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting different information in different windows so that I can analyze different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with my friends :), even if I wanted to take the time to learn the scripting language(s) which I don't. This is basically the only reason I boot something other than freebsd anymore, if you don't count the odd DOS game. :) Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 04:59:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18954 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18949 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id HAA06738; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:54:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:54:50 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Studded cc: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <35052DC6.E3A4B42C@dal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC > Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc > clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting > different information in different windows so that I can analyze > different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with > my friends :) I've been doing this with Pheonix for years now...*shrug* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 05:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coleridge.kublai.com (coleridge.kublai.com [207.96.1.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20902 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:20:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: from natasya.kublai.com (natasya.kublai.com [207.172.25.236]) by coleridge.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10801; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:19:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.kublai.com) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.kublai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24782; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980310081926.53170@erols.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:19:26 -0500 From: Brian Cully To: tcobb@staff.circle.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: UNION FS appropriate? Reply-To: shmit@erols.com References: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA3@freya.circle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA3@freya.circle.net>; from tcobb@staff.circle.net on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 02:11:22AM -0500 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@panix.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On %M %N, tcobb@staff.circle.net wrote: > > What is the current known state of UNION FS? > > Here's my situation: > > I have a set of directories which contain a user's files (mostly web > stuff). FTP chroots nicely into this space, and I have other public > services which do so, too. All of these files are served from a primary > NFS server. What I'd like to do is mount these directories on a new > box, and then allow a chrooted telnet. The telnet side I can handle > just fine, but I need to 'overlay' onto these directories such stock > binaries as chmod,ping,vi, etc. This will allow me to let folks telnet > in, and have a usable experience, but not require separate copies of > these binaries in each chroot-space. Is this possible with UNION? Is > UNION stable enough to handle being dynamically mapped on login? The state of the union, is, IIRC, Not So Good. You should probably look elswheres for a solution. You might want to use portal instead of union, for that matter. I've set up sendmail inside of a chrooted environment using portal for read only access to /etc (which lies on a different partition, so hard links to appropriate files are impossible). -- Brian Cully ``And when one of our comrades was taken prisoner, blindfolded, hung upside-down, shot, and burned, we thought to ourselves, `These are the best experiences of our lives''' -Pathology (Joe Frank, Somewhere Out There) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 06:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25986 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25812 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:09:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Tue Mar 10 09:02 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA26396 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:09:12 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: Synchronous Mirroring for FreeBSD] Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:09:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How about splitting remote mirroring in two parts: one is mirroring itself that can (?) be done by ccd, the other is mapping of remote drive. I think that this approach may be cleaner and easier to implement. And the remote drive may be useful by itself, even without mirroring. -SB > ---------- > From: Julian Elischer[SMTP:julian@whistle.com] > Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 9:43 PM > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: [Fwd: Re: Synchronous Mirroring for FreeBSD] > > <> > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 06:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27687 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.tue.nl (mailhost.tue.nl [131.155.2.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27445 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:21:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J.G.E.Backus@urc.tue.nl) Received: from asterix.urc.tue.nl [131.155.5.10] by mailhost.tue.nl (8.8.8) id PAA03299 (ESMTP). Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:00:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from jbackus@localhost by asterix.urc.tue.nl (8.8.8) id PAA22817. Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:00:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980310150018.A21606@asterix.urc.tue.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:00:18 +0100 From: Jos Backus To: Doug White Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de driver && DS 21143 works on -stable but not -current!? References: <19980309120424.60856@asterix.urc.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.7i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug White on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:18:46AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Doug, First of all, thank you for responding! >> I just downloaded and installed the latest committed NetBSD de driver, but >> it still does't work with this Ethernet controller in 10Mbit/UTP mode. The >> version in -stable, however, does. > > Odd. Can you isolate the problematic code? I've looked at the diffs between -stable and -current, and it appears that the -current version has a great deal of what seem to be additions for busmaster DMA support for OSes other than FreeBSD (``TULIP_BUS_DMA'' isn't define'd). I tried turning this on together with the *_NO[RT]X define's (without those two I get tons of errors because of some missing typedef's) and while this builds a kernel, it doesn't make any difference. I tried turning on DIAGNOSTIC as well as TULIP_{VERBOSE,DEBUG} in the kernel config but that doesn't show anything interesting either. The only thing that strikes me as odd is the OACTIVE flag being on all the time. I can't remember seeing it while running 2.2.2 (before cvsupping -current). No directly visible related changes AFAICS, though. >> Questions: Would anyone have any idea how to go about porting the -stable >> driver to -current? How would I start enabling diagnostics in the -current >> de driver in order to find out why it isn't working (and the -stable one >> is). > > -stable -> -current is rare and an uphill battle The versions between > -stable and -current should be the same though. Well, while dc21040reg.h and if_devar.h seem relatively unchanged, if_de.c is rather different *sigh* But as I said, most of the changes relate to busmastering. I'm having a hard time figuring out where to look ;-/ > > Then again, as quite a few things have changed between -stable and > > -current in the surrounding environment (the -stable driver gives a bunch > > of errors), the problem may not be in the driver per se :-/ > > Quite true. You may want to work with hackers@freebsd.org on this one. I'm cc'ing hackers, maybe some of the nice && smart folks can point me in the right direction! Thanks again, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@urc.tue.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 06:39:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29932 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29913 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26388; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:18:40 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA09191; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:18:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980310151840.28711@follo.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:18:40 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: The Hermit Hacker , Studded Cc: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) References: <35052DC6.E3A4B42C@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:54:50AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:54:50AM -0500, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > > > Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC > > Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc > > clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting > > different information in different windows so that I can analyze > > different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with > > my friends :) > > I've been doing this with Pheonix for years now...*shrug* And where might a port of that be? ;-) (An URL would also be fine.) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 06:42:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01173 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:42:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01094 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Tue Mar 10 07:43 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA03656 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:47 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:00:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: walter@fortean.com, am@amsoft.ru Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: APM power off (patch) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:00:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Andrew Maltsev[SMTP:am@amsoft.ru] > > > > So, step 8) should be: > > > 8) reboot or power off, whatever requested. > > > > Well, I'm actually proposing it's taken out of the kernel (step 8) > and put > > into the callout functions (step 5). The implementation of the > > To say the truth I see no _big_ advantages in moving that code out of > kernel.. to me it looks like a bit ``perfectionistic'' improvement.. > which should be done, but.. > It allows to hook easily any driver for any hardware for this function. Considering that there is at least more than one UPS command set and also laptops etc. it will be highly useful not to hack the kernel every time but just write appropriate code in the driver. -SB who added once the power off function to SCO 3.2.2 by hacking the kernel binaries :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 07:39:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11439 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@ppp-24-130.tidalwave.net [208.220.24.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11426 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04638; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:38:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980310103813.24285@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:38:13 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: Eivind Eklund Cc: Studded@dal.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC scripts (was: WINE) Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <35052DC6.E3A4B42C@dal.net> <19980310151840.28711@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19980310151840.28711@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 03:18:40PM +0100 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 03:18:40PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:54:50AM -0500, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > > > > > Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC > > > Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc > > > clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting > > > different information in different windows so that I can analyze > > > different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with > > > my friends :) > > > > I've been doing this with Pheonix for years now...*shrug* > > And where might a port of that be? ;-) Phoenix isn't a program in and of itself, it's a utility script for ircII. The original author, Ryan "Vassago" Addams, stopped developing it a while back (he got into MUDs I believe)...you want version 2.35 or 3.01. Look in ftp://neylonpc.engin.umich.edu/wtnet/scripts/unix; there's also a script package there called "yakko-irc" (by Chris Eslinger ) that adds some nice features when used in conjunction with Phoenix 2.35 or 3.01, including mIRC-style query windows. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 07:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:42:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11105 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id SAA03142 ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:11:34 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803101511.SAA03142@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803100356.TAA17338@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at "Mar 9, 98 07:56:15 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:11:34 +0300 (MSK) Cc: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp, mike@smith.net.au, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, walter@fortean.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >> > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: > > >> > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ > > >> > which also implements power off via APM. > > >> > > >> APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. > > >> FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time > > >> now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. > > > > Hmm? I read roughly the patch mentioned in the first mail of this > > thread, and I can't find any essential difference between it and > > -current, and I have heard and tested that PAO shutdown power-off code > > works under ATX machines. > > Odd; I had expected that it *would*, but when I tried it on my brand > new ASUS board it didn't, nor on the Tyan box next to me. Have you APM enabled in BIOS? It works fine on my Intel AL440LX APM 1.2 compatible board. And I see no difference between laptops and ATX boards from APM point of view. ..btw I see no code in 2.2-stable branch to power down laptop. RB_POWEROFF is not analized anywhere in kernel. I do not pretend my patch to be hard done job or very urgent - it's very simple and obvious - but it adds functionality to 2.2 branch. And to me it's better than nothing. That's all. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 07:48:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13974 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA11952; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:52:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:52:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <350403F3.7AC7@opengroup.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > Christopher Sedore wrote: > > > > I'd like to see an lightweight X11 replacement (eg photon), > > Where is there information on photon? > > Lightweight in terms of what? Bandwidth? Memory footprint of the > application? Something else? > > > What strategy does photon offer for preserving the investment that > various enterprises have made in their existing X11 applications? Or are > you going to pull a Java on me and tell me that the apps have to be > rewritten? IMHO the best way to keep X and make something more efficient than Motif over it will be to make a toolkit that can be used either on a client side (like existing toolkits) or as an extension on the server side, and programs will be able to use either of those ways. Server-side implementation decreases the bandwidth, improves human-perceptible response time and frees some memory at the client at the expense of memory at the server that I believe, will be acceptable -- the additional memory spent on the server will be probably significantly less than one currently spent on clients, and definitely something can be done to improve locality of the memory access on one server while it can't be done on multiple clients or even on objects, dynamically allocated in one client (start Netscape, press right button, hear familiar sound before menu appears). When X is used over the network, in most of cases it's more reasonable to decrease the memory use on the client application even if X server will take more memory to handle it, and I think, it still will be increased less than what will be saved on the client -- a lot of low-level objects that now are handled by toolkits will exist only in server. Client-side or protocol-proxy implementations will provide fallback for existing servers that don't have or can't use server extension. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 08:43:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:43:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23905 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27857; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:43:36 GMT Message-ID: <01a101bd4c42$f7e56380$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Studded" , "Niall Smart" Cc: Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:38:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Hmmm, is it mIRC? ;) > > Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC >Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc >clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting >different information in different windows so that I can analyze >different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with >my friends :), even if I wanted to take the time to learn the scripting >language(s) which I don't. This is basically the only reason I boot >something other than freebsd anymore, if you don't count the odd DOS >game. :) hmmm, have you tried "wine" recently? the latest version seems to be giving me problems, however the previous version from last month seemed to run Mirc quite well. also in regards to totally avoiding that annoying program (mirc) you might want to look at: kirc - http://www.kde.org/ - this is from the KDE project, however it seems to be more annoying than mirc, and less stable. tkirc - http://home.pages.de/~tkirc - a tk interface to irc-II, very nice imo, ALMOST as easy to use as mirc, with a few stupidities included, however tkirc lacks the spiffy MDI child windows, so managing it can be a bit annoying, however, the ability to have different windows open to different channels and chats at the same time, on seperate virtual screen kinda ummm... "rules" heh :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 08:49:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:49:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25155 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14897 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:49:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <3504D572.3630C29B@dal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > They aren't bad programmers actually, but they do things pretty fast > and loose (which is in fitting with the permanent-alpha level of the > project). This may be the only way to emulate Microsoft code properly. ;-) Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 09:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29407 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA14918; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:07:21 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Eivind Eklund cc: Studded , Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE (was: Uncle Sam, got a million bucks?) In-Reply-To: <19980310151840.28711@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG uOn Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 07:54:50AM -0500, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > > > > > Good guess. :) I've got a *LOT* of time and effort invested in my IRC > > > Operator scripts (about 200k worth) and there aren't any unix irc > > > clients that will let me do everything that mirc does (mostly putting > > > different information in different windows so that I can analyze > > > different elements of the network at the same time, and still chat with > > > my friends :) > > > > I've been doing this with Pheonix for years now...*shrug* > > And where might a port of that be? ;-) > > (An URL would also be fine.) ftp://unix.mclv.net/pub/phoenix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 09:35:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04115 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.stinol.lipetsk.ru ([193.232.237.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03815 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:33:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ym@stinol.lipetsk.ru) Received: from exchange.stinol.int ([172.17.3.14]) by proxy.stinol.lipetsk.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5/sgena/290397) with ESMTP id UAA01674 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:29:34 +0300 (MSK) Received: by exchange.stinol.int with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:31:52 +0300 Message-ID: <26F5F31730F8D011A44100805F14F1FC21ED27@exchange.stinol.int> From: "Mashkovtsev, Yuri" To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: MAC overriding Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:31:50 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My students ask me: "Is there any API for overriding host's MAC Ethernet address by the host itself ? Or should we patch the kernel ?" -- End of message -- ...óõëéóà Íåóôï - ÷ òåóéëìåä Âéîå ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 10:04:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11245 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA14430; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:02:58 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Jos Backus cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de driver && DS 21143 works on -stable but not -current!? In-Reply-To: <19980310150018.A21606@asterix.urc.tue.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Jos Backus wrote: > >> I just downloaded and installed the latest committed NetBSD de driver, but > >> it still does't work with this Ethernet controller in 10Mbit/UTP mode. The > >> version in -stable, however, does. > > > > Odd. Can you isolate the problematic code? > > I've looked at the diffs between -stable and -current, and it appears that the > -current version has a great deal of what seem to be additions for busmaster > DMA support for OSes other than FreeBSD (``TULIP_BUS_DMA'' isn't define'd). I > tried turning this on together with the *_NO[RT]X define's (without those two > I get tons of errors because of some missing typedef's) and while this builds > a kernel, it doesn't make any difference. I tried turning on DIAGNOSTIC as > well as TULIP_{VERBOSE,DEBUG} in the kernel config but that doesn't show > anything interesting either. > > The only thing that strikes me as odd is the OACTIVE flag being on all the > time. I can't remember seeing it while running 2.2.2 (before cvsupping > -current). No directly visible related changes AFAICS, though. I'm not sure the NetBSD driver is directly importable into our kernel framework. I know that sometimes it needs a little massaging when they bring it into our tree, but... > > > Then again, as quite a few things have changed between -stable and > > > -current in the surrounding environment (the -stable driver gives a bunch > > > of errors), the problem may not be in the driver per se :-/ > > > > Quite true. You may want to work with hackers@freebsd.org on this one. > > I'm cc'ing hackers, maybe some of the nice && smart folks can point me in the > right direction! Hopefully; I try to keep clear of kernel hacking whenever possible and leave it to the experienced pointy hat collectors^W^W^Wprogrammers :) Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 10:20:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15925 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15761 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:19:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Tue Mar 10 13:13 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA21555 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:19:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:19:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ym@stinol.lipetsk.ru Subject: RE: MAC overriding Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:19:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Mashkovtsev, Yuri[SMTP:ym@stinol.lipetsk.ru] > > My students ask me: > "Is there any API for overriding host's MAC Ethernet address > by the host itself ? Or should we patch the kernel ?" > It is but no driver yet does implement it as far as I know. A good place to search for it is IPX code, if_ether.c, and any driver's code (for example, if_ep.c). -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 10:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20175 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hmsa01 (hmsa.com [205.172.19.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA20071 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tyoung@hmsa.com) Received: from hmsa.com ([10.1.73.41]) by hmsa01 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA06027; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:32:03 -1000 Message-Id: <350587D1.6C88DE61@hmsa.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:34:57 -1000 From: Terrance Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Snob Art Genre Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: YA EtherExpress? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steep Price! (and I thought Token Ring was expensive!) I would rather put two 3com high end cards and put it in different segments rather than pay the price for offloading my CPU with one card. The cards (NIC's) don't take away that much of the processor cycles where I would belive would make THAT much of a difference to justify the price. I think the $500 I would have just saved could help go toward a switched hub or something (not that $500 is that much for a network type saving). Correct me if I'm wrong... There is a point to it if there isn't much more you can do with your network and you Really need that much more processor cycles :-) Snob Art Genre wrote: > While I was searching for information on fast ethernet (specifically, > whether it's always switched, or can be shared), I came across the > following: > > The EtherExpress PRO/100 Smart Adapter is an intelligent server card > for Fast Ethernet networks. The PRO/100 Smart Adapter comes with an > on-board Intel i960 processor that offloads the host CPU and delivers > even lower CPU utilization and faster throughput than the standard > PRO/100 Adapters. The PRO/100 Adapters has a PCI bus and a NetWare > driver co-developed by Intel and Novell for optimal performance. > > Price: $895 > Version: PILA8485 > > Has anyone heard of this? Is there any point to it? Does FreeBSD > support it? > > (If anyone knows the answer to my fast ethernet question, that'd be > great too.) > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 11:27:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03986 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:26:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26938; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026895; Tue Mar 10 12:26:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06848; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:26:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803101926.MAA06848@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:26:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Mar 9, 98 10:52:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If you shutdown normally, or panic, the uncommited writes get flushed > > from the disk cache by the disk (because it doesn't know from reset > > in the time it takes to panic or crash). > > There are hardware features in place today to take care of this problem > during normal shutdown. Panics are no-man's land. Ugh. "FreeBSD is tolerant of faults, as long as they never happen"? A panic is exactly the type of fault you want to CYA against. [ ...soft read-only... ] > I always wondered why this is not so. Not even after sync(2). With the old sync process (updated, not syncer), it wasn't very cost effective. It would happen on every sync. > I do not want to use hardware at all :-) The best computer is a cuamber in > a shoe box; Simple, no moving parts, easy to replace, easy to tell if bad > and good for the diet. > > Seriously, hardware can simplify life a lot. It is a matter of cost. Most > people will accept that their $3,000 computer has to be protected by a $75 > UPS. That's true. But if they don't have a UPS, then you shouldn't sell them you "Fault Tolerant FreeBSD". The difference is SFT (*Software* Fault Tolerance); that's why Novell is still making money in the server market (or at least one of the reasons). > You can advance this idea only so far. And for what cost? Software has > bugs. What is the uptime ratio between these software modifications > described here and a UPS? Even if YOU write ALL this code :-) If I have to write all the code myself, it'll be a long time before it gets done. But If I'm serious, I'll write it in vanilla K&R so I can run the C++ branch path analysis tool from the comp.unix.sources archives on it. One component that's being overlooked here is QA as opposed to QC. It may be that true SFT can't ever happen in a free software project, due to the project management constraints needed to produce really reliable code. > I think that software solutions to problems like this are great, as long as > they still allow for hardware solutions to augment/complement them. I would definitely like to see someone produce a PrestoServ card for FreeBSD (for example). This would get it into a hell of a lot of traditionally "big iron" shops. The whole fault tolerance issue is "how do I make small iron look like big iron without getting Tony Overfield to redesign the PC?". 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 11:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:30:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04677 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:29:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07876; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:29:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012269; Mon Mar 9 22:04:36 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29198; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:04:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803100504.WAA29198@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Perl, Threads, FreeBSD, High Weirdness To: chris@netmonger.net (Christopher Masto) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:04:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: perl5-porters@perl.com, nvp@mediaone.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980309152332.35831@netmonger.net> from "Christopher Masto" at Mar 9, 98 03:23:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Pretending the last line is fixed, this test still fails on FreeBSD > (2.2.5-stable as of yesterday). I don't know why, but I do know that > threads are simply not working. They do not run concurrently. > > This test program: > > use Thread; > > $t = Thread->new(sub { print "AAA\n" while 1; }); > while (1) { > print "---\n"; > sleep 1; > } > > Produces this output: > > --- > --- > --- > (ad infinitum) > > If the main program ever performs a $t->join or exits, the AAA thread > takes over and actually can't be stopped with a ^C or ^\ (but kill -9 > from another session works). You are not running the most recent threads if you can't kill it with a ^C. Jeremy fixed signal handling. Probably it's exploding for some other reason. One candidate might be the pthread_create attibutes which you have to pass an address of instead of the attr. FreeBSD's pthreads are POSIX Draft 4, not Draft 10/Release (they are *reliably* Draft 4 after the patches that went in last month from Jeremy and I). If you are using code that expect Draft 10/Release, you should use the non-existance of PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER, like so: #ifdef PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER /* POSIX Draft 10/Release threads*/ ... #else /* PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER*/ /* POSIX Draft 4 threads*/ ... #endif /* PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER*/ I did code for this for the STL from Moscow center for SPARC computing, and for all of the LDAP code. You should also know that you *must* use g++ 2.8.x if you want C++ exceptions to work with threads (the EGCS stuff will *not* work because of the cheesy way they compile-time-of-the-compiler bound their threading). In general, the code is supposed to call "nanosleep" to implement the sleep, so it should context switch at that time. One problem you *will* have is that the AAA thread *always* has "work to do". The way you are *supposed* to deal with this is using a scheduler thread at a higher priority to impose "fairness" by forcing the thread that was running before it ran to be rescheduled. This puts it at the end of the scheduling queue, and consequently, the other thread runs if it got over its sleep and made it into the queue. Otherwise your monster thread gets to run again. If Perl is defeating this behaviour, then Perl is broken. More likely, you are just using old threads library code, or Perl is assuming a Draft 10/Release version of pthreads somewhere. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 11:59:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10089 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA10038 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 5541 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Mar 1998 20:06:49 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-030698 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803101926.MAA06848@usr01.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:06:48 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Mar-98 Terry Lambert wrote: ... > Ugh. "FreeBSD is tolerant of faults, as long as they never happen"? > > A panic is exactly the type of fault you want to CYA against. I think we are talking two classes of manic: * Pedictable/Manageble: Where a specific piece of code knowingly decides to shutdown. Here, you are right. * Unpredictable: Such things as NULL pointers, invalid addresses, etc. I have never seen a Unix (FreeBSD included) that can get from undeneath this class of panics. Typically, the stack goes with the panic. Any attempt to continue and run ANY code is doomed to fail. In an ideal world, you are correct. In my world, I consider all panics a catastrophic failure and switch over ot alternate compute engine. ... >> I always wondered why this is not so. Not even after sync(2). > > With the old sync process (updated, not syncer), it wasn't very > cost effective. It would happen on every sync. ``Cost Effective'' in what way? Losing a critical file, or corrupting an on-line database is a lot less effective than n% loss of speed. N can be pretty large here, if you ask users who are in the know. Again, a switch will be the best solution. Dia in the level of security or reliability you desire. ... > That's true. But if they don't have a UPS, then you shouldn't sell > them you "Fault Tolerant FreeBSD". > > The difference is SFT (*Software* Fault Tolerance); that's why Novell > is still making money in the server market (or at least one of the > reasons). How many Novell servers have you seen without a UPS behind them? Again, MHO is that software should protect against abrupt termination as well as it can. But, it is OK to clearly define the constraints, and say ``For this I need at least n seconds of continued processing time''. >> You can advance this idea only so far. And for what cost? Software has >> bugs. What is the uptime ratio between these software modifications >> described here and a UPS? Even if YOU write ALL this code :-) > > If I have to write all the code myself, it'll be a long time before > it gets done. But If I'm serious, I'll write it in vanilla K&R so > I can run the C++ branch path analysis tool from the comp.unix.sources > archives on it. I may be blind, and behind the times, but, aside from formal prototypes, I fail to see what really improved in the C language since K&R. > One component that's being overlooked here is QA as opposed to QC. QC is management measurable (almost). QA is more of a moral issue. > It may be that true SFT can't ever happen in a free software project, > due to the project management constraints needed to produce really > reliable code. I disagree. I have seen this project (and others) produce high quality code. And very reliable code. The weakness of this environment is that, at times, we bite more than we can chew, and that, in the FreeBSD in particular, our efforts are difused; We work on a lot of different big things. Instead, we should try to form task forces which work on specific things, broadening or exeprtise level, and ensuring maturity of features. rather than count. ... > I would definitely like to see someone produce a PrestoServ card for > FreeBSD (for example). This would get it into a hell of a lot of > traditionally "big iron" shops. And what is a PrestoServ card? > The whole fault tolerance issue is "how do I make small iron look like > big iron without getting Tony Overfield to redesign the PC?". > > 8-). And who is Tony Overfield? You are talking to some ignorant audience here :-) BTW, you cannot re-design the PC. You have to discard it. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 12:04:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11494 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:04:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19859; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:58:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803101958.LAA19859@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Andrew Maltsev cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, walter@fortean.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:11:34 +0300." <199803101511.SAA03142@amsoft.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:58:49 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >> > May I bring your attention to the PAO package: > > > >> > http://www.jp.FreeBSD.org/PAO/ > > > >> > which also implements power off via APM. > > > >> > > > >> APM poweroff on ATX boards is different to APM poweroff on laptops. > > > >> FreeBSD has been able to use APM to shut laptops down for a long time > > > >> now, but it hasn't worked on ATX boards. > > > > > > Hmm? I read roughly the patch mentioned in the first mail of this > > > thread, and I can't find any essential difference between it and > > > -current, and I have heard and tested that PAO shutdown power-off code > > > works under ATX machines. > > > > Odd; I had expected that it *would*, but when I tried it on my brand > > new ASUS board it didn't, nor on the Tyan box next to me. > > Have you APM enabled in BIOS? Yes; as I said, suspending works. > It works fine on my Intel AL440LX APM 1.2 compatible board. And I see no > difference between laptops and ATX boards from APM point of view. Ok. Sounds like circumstantial problems. I'll try again. > ...btw I see no code in 2.2-stable branch to power down > laptop. RB_POWEROFF is not analized anywhere in kernel. No, it's only in -current. > I do not pretend my patch to be hard done job or very urgent - it's very > simple and obvious - but it adds functionality to 2.2 branch. And to me > it's better than nothing. That's all. It'd be better to merge the code from -current, just for consistency's sake. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 12:20:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15519 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19963; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:17:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803102017.MAA19963@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: tcobb@staff.circle.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 02:05:58 EST." <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA2@freya.circle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:17:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There have been a few threads about a FreeBSD PAM implementation off and > on over the past 6 months. My understand was that someone had done an > initial hack of it. Who? Where? Does it work? :) I ported the Linux-PAM kit a while back, and tracked it for a few months. I cooled off on PAM while watching the significant problems that the PAM people faced trying to get things like pppd to fit into the framework. I'd hesitate to recommend PAM as a generalised solution to the authentication issue, but if you are happy with a subset solution, re-porting it is basically a matter of rewriting their Makefiles (which are hopelessly Linux-centric). I may have a copy of my old work around here (but I have lost a lot of stuff recently), or you may be able to find it from someone else that downloaded it while it was generally available. You would face some work updating to current versions. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 14:46:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19575 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:46:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19567 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:46:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18304 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 10 Mar 1998 23:46:21 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03084; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:14:57 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803102114.WAA03084@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Mar 10, 98 12:06:48 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:14:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since there is a lot of interest (well, at least discussion) in HA: why not add a freebsd-ha mailinglist to majordomo? This keeps people from frantically editing their .procmailrc to filter out the HA threads from -hackers. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 15:13:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24321 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24224 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:12:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21644; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:41:55 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA10381; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:41:43 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980311094143.32447@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:41:43 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ddb References: <19980309201318.43775@techunix.technion.ac.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980309201318.43775@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from Anatoly Vorobey on Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 08:13:18PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 March 1998 at 20:13:18 +0200, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > I was thinking of doing some work on ddb, but for all I know, > all the serious developers are doing kgdb anyhow and any changes > wouldn't be much needed ;) I don't have two FreeBSD machines > to do kgdb and I've been spoiled by good powerful debuggers, I don't > feel at home with ddb ;) Well, it would certainly be a good idea. I've been thinking of it myself, having also been used to better debuggers. > How much do you think the following would, or would not be useful? > (from easier to harder). > > 1. More convenient symbols support, e.g. "sym nfs*" to list all > symbols starting from nfs/_nfs with their values. I don't see the need for this. I've found symbol completion with tab to be completely adequate, and easier to use. > 2. Encapsulation of traps on entry/exit; i.e. you can't panic by > trying to read nonexistent page in ddb, Definitely. The fact that ddb can cause traps is a bug. > you can list nonexistent pages and see '???' values on them. No, it should tell you that the page doesn't exist. > 3. Independence from syscons, and ability to be brought up on > just about hardest crashes, when syscons goes down too. At some point you need to negotiate with syscons. I once write a debugger for BSD/386 which used separate I/O. You can have the code if you want, but it's (deliberately) pretty primitive. > 3.5. A printf-style routine directing to the debugger to print on > its terminal; unlike tprintf/uprintf/kvprintf and friends, > blocking and guaranteed to print everything no matter how often > called. (maybe there's such a beast already and I missed it? pray tell). Maybe I'm misunderstanding the background here. What's the problem with kvprintf? > 4. Intel-style asm listing (yeah, right, flame away). It would be nice to use Intel mnemonics, so that at least you could refer to the Intel literature, but until the whole system has changed, it would just confuse things. I vote against. > 5. Source-level listing, by having a userland loader program give > sources you're interested in to ddb; ddb would keep them in locked > memory (no pagefaults, debug vm manager). My BSD/386 debugger did this, but it was a real kludge. It wouldn't be much of a basis. > 5. Better integration with the kernel; i.e. change address spaces > inside ddb, That's the big one. I want to be able to analyse hangs, and at the moment I can't because I'm either not in a process environment, or in the wrong one. > intelligent display of important structures (mbuf, buffer, iostruct, > whatever). Well, if it reads in the kernel symbol table, it'll know *all* the structs. kgdb can display them. It would be nice to have ddb (or replacement) do so as well. Of course, all these things would require a ridiculous amount of locked memory--maybe as much as 32 MB. A debug kernel alone is about 10 MB. For many applications, this usage would be warranted, but it would make sense to cater for installing only partial sources, and removing them when you're done. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 15:33:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28436 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28342 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 24340 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Mar 1998 23:40:34 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-030698 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803102114.WAA03084@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:40:34 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert@primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Mar-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > Since there is a lot of interest (well, at least discussion) in HA: > > why not add a freebsd-ha mailinglist to majordomo? > > This keeps people from frantically editing their .procmailrc to filter > out the HA threads from -hackers. Good idea. How about moving it to freebsd-database which is already there. Besides, only database winnies are interested in such stuff... Simon ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:24:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:24:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07514; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:24:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06111; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:35:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980310193548.10374@vmunix.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:35:48 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? References: <8188AD2EBC3CD111B7A30060082F32A40C3FA2@freya.circle.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 11:09:50AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 10, 1998 at 11:09:50AM +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 tcobb@staff.circle.net wrote: > > > There have been a few threads about a FreeBSD PAM implementation off and > > on over the past 6 months. My understand was that someone had done an > > initial hack of it. Who? Where? Does it work? :) [SNIP] > I for one could do something with it (or with something similar), because > I all the time have to hack login and ftp to support SecurID tokens, and > besides I'm going to try to hack a radius-ified login. But all of this is > pretty hackish under current authentication scheme - there is no clean > solution, and the same things are scattered in multiple places... :-/ > > If you think there is some auth scheme/package that would be worth > implementing, I might take a look at it. Kerberos? I've been using v4 here for ages, and it works swell. Haven't tried v5 (actually don't even know if it's available under FreeBSD). What do "SecurID tokens" give you that Kerberos doesn't?? Since NT is going the way of Kerberos, I'm imagining that in a few years, Kerberos style authentication will be all that really matters... :-) -Mark P.S. What are SecureID tokens?? :) > > Andrzej Bialecki > > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghost.rhein-main.de (pm-d18.rhein-main.de [195.37.9.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07930 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:27:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberte@ghost.rhein-main.de) Received: (from roberte@localhost) by ghost.rhein-main.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00805 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:27:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberte) From: Robert Eckardt Message-Id: <199803110027.BAA00805@ghost.rhein-main.de> Subject: NIS+ ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 01:27:22 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, if I remember correctly, there was development ongoing to get NIS+ (w/ SecureRPC) working on FreeBSD. Can someone give an update what is the status ? Was it planned to have it as server AND client working ? (BTW, how do I search the mail archives for NIS+ (instead of NIS) ?) Thanks, Robert -- Dr. Robert Eckardt --===-- Robert.Eckardt@Rhein-Main.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10177 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onion.ish.org (root@onion.ish.org [210.145.219.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10044 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ishizuka@ish.org) Received: from localhost (ishizuka@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by onion.ish.org (8.8.8/3.6Wbeta7-01/22/98) with ESMTP id JAA29911 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:35:01 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: partition manager in 3.0-980309-SNAP boot floppy works correct ? X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93b24 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980311093500V.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:35:00 +0900 From: Masachika ISHIZUKA X-Dispatcher: imput version 980302 Lines: 9 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I want to upgrade 3.0-980309-SNAP from an older 3.0-SNAP, but partition editor in 3.0-980309-SNAP's boot.flp can't recognize existing partitions when upgrade install process was proceeded. Is there anyone who did upgrade install successfully with the 3.0-980309-SNAP's boot.flp ? --- ishizuka@ish.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:40:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11566 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:40:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11538 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29448; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd029406; Tue Mar 10 17:40:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13485; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:40:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803110040.RAA13485@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:40:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Mar 10, 98 12:06:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I always wondered why this is not so. Not even after sync(2). > > > > With the old sync process (updated, not syncer), it wasn't very > > cost effective. It would happen on every sync. > > ``Cost Effective'' in what way? Losing a critical file, or corrupting an > on-line database is a lot less effective than n% loss of speed. N can be > pretty large here, if you ask users who are in the know. > > Again, a switch will be the best solution. Dia in the level of security or > reliability you desire. You misunderstand. A soft read-only marking is only instituted if there is no dirty data to be written. The difference is in reboot time, since the *only* thing wrong with the disk is the clean flag isn't set and the superblock information that isn't automagically replicated is out of sync. It saves you fsck time after an ungraceful shutdown from a quiescent state, nothing more. It wasn't cost effective in the sense that if you marked and unmarked the thing after every sync, you were marking it frequently enough that the unmarking represented a significant start latency in the median to high load case (where the sync wrote all outstanding dirty data, but there would immediately be more dirty data that needed written the next time). With the syncer process, the sync clock puts a delay between when the last data in and the last data out -- a sliding window in which you would not "unship the heads" so to speak. The entire window would need to be emptied for you to mark the volume soft read-only, and you would have an entire sync clock in which to "unship the heads". Basically, you'd implement this by saying "at the next sync interval, immediatle write the superblock as dirty, and on completion, mark the FS non-soft-RO. > > The difference is SFT (*Software* Fault Tolerance); that's why Novell > > is still making money in the server market (or at least one of the > > reasons). > > How many Novell servers have you seen without a UPS behind them? Generally, or at Novell? Generally, quite a few. Novell has this luxury because their threading is coopertive tasking with explicit yield (unless you yield, all operations run to completion, so you are never more than one operation away from ground state; like running with sync mounts on the pre-soft updates FFS). > Again, MHO is that software should protect against abrupt termination as > well as it can. But, it is OK to clearly define the constraints, and say > ``For this I need at least n seconds of continued processing time''. "Seconds" is a *long* time. I was thinking no more than 30uS or even 25uS in those country too poor to afford 60 sine waves per duty cycle ;-). If you are thinking about checkpoint/restart -- well, that's a whole different ballgame. You will need to either revisit memory overcommit, or have a checkpoint reserve equal to the amount of kernel memory plus a startup reserve to less you restore state (or reserve a set amount of main RAM for the job, but that's wasteful). > > If I have to write all the code myself, it'll be a long time before > > it gets done. But If I'm serious, I'll write it in vanilla K&R so > > I can run the C++ branch path analysis tool from the comp.unix.sources > > archives on it. > > I may be blind, and behind the times, but, aside from formal prototypes, I > fail to see what really improved in the C language since K&R. That's not the point. The point is that I can automatically generate code coverage tests for K&R C but not for ANSI C. 8-(. > > One component that's being overlooked here is QA as opposed to QC. > > QC is management measurable (almost). QA is more of a moral issue. This is where the people who hate ISO 9000 begin to hate it. The management involvement always seems to take the form of "what would we like to have measurements on" rather than "what is measurable". I dread this type of QC management. QA is more "how can I guarantee that the code matches the intent of the code". This is a discussion we should take offline, unless there is a seperate list where it's appropriate. > The weakness of this environment is that, at times, we bite more than we > can chew, and that, in the FreeBSD in particular, our efforts are difused; > We work on a lot of different big things. Instead, we should try to form > task forces which work on specific things, broadening or exeprtise level, > and ensuring maturity of features. rather than count. Well, organize away! ...8-) > > I would definitely like to see someone produce a PrestoServ card for > > FreeBSD (for example). This would get it into a hell of a lot of > > traditionally "big iron" shops. > > And what is a PrestoServ card? Battery backed RAM for stable storage of NFS writes. Uh... "hard updates"... 8-). > > The whole fault tolerance issue is "how do I make small iron look like > > big iron without getting Tony Overfield to redesign the PC?". > > > > 8-). > > And who is Tony Overfield? You are talking to some ignorant audience here Engineer at Dell. Argues hardware and BIOS, occasionally. Good source for feedback about "how do I talk to PC hardware instead of non-perverse hardware". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:43:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA12196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12172; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:43:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20827; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:40:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803110040.QAA20827@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Mayo cc: Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:35:48 EST." <19980310193548.10374@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:40:30 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Kerberos? > > I've been using v4 here for ages, and it works swell. Haven't tried > v5 (actually don't even know if it's available under FreeBSD). Yes. > What do "SecurID tokens" give you that Kerberos doesn't?? Since NT is > going the way of Kerberos, I'm imagining that in a few years, Kerberos > style authentication will be all that really matters... :-) SecurID uses a physical token (like a credit-card calculator) which displays a random number which changes every so often. You use the number as a password. Because the server knows the sequence, it can make allowances for time drift in the cards. Guessing the sequence from a set of sample passwords is meant to be very difficult. This is relatively more secure than Kerberos, but still involves a "trusted host". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14283 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:55:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14169 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04132; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:54:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:54:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Masachika ISHIZUKA cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: partition manager in 3.0-980309-SNAP boot floppy works correct ? In-Reply-To: <19980311093500V.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Masachika ISHIZUKA wrote: > I want to upgrade 3.0-980309-SNAP from an older 3.0-SNAP, but > partition editor in 3.0-980309-SNAP's boot.flp can't recognize > existing partitions when upgrade install process was proceeded. > > Is there anyone who did upgrade install successfully with the > 3.0-980309-SNAP's boot.flp ? I've seen the same thing with 2.2 SNAPs on at least three different snaps in the last month. It isn't a change in format, because I did a fresh install of 2.2-980309-SNAP today, rebooted, worked fine, rebooted off the boot floppy, selected update, and the slice (dos-style partitions) was there, but the FreeBSD partitions (/, swap, /var, /usr) weren't there. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 16:59:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15638; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:59:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA28066; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:57:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:57:25 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Mike Smith cc: Mark Mayo , Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-Reply-To: <199803110040.QAA20827@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Kerberos? > > > > I've been using v4 here for ages, and it works swell. Haven't tried > > v5 (actually don't even know if it's available under FreeBSD). > > Yes. The MIT Krb5 release built cleanly on my 2.2-STABLE machine (to provide some more specifics as to a yes :). > > What do "SecurID tokens" give you that Kerberos doesn't?? Since NT is > > going the way of Kerberos, I'm imagining that in a few years, Kerberos > > style authentication will be all that really matters... :-) > > SecurID uses a physical token (like a credit-card calculator) which > displays a random number which changes every so often. You use the > number as a password. > > Because the server knows the sequence, it can make allowances for time > drift in the cards. Guessing the sequence from a set of sample > passwords is meant to be very difficult. > > This is relatively more secure than Kerberos, but still involves a > "trusted host". One possibility is to use Kerberos as a possible alternative to PAM itself -- any authentication system that uses a shared secret (SecurID might fit into that if the server can predict the secret ahead of time -- I'm not familiar with SecurID) can be patched into the Kerberos server. Now any code compiled to support Kerberos supports (shared secret authentication method of choice). Of course, this is not as complex as SASL which allows a negotiation of authentication, so really only works for a limited set of authentication cards. It does not do challenge/response without the equivilent hacking to support PAM, and it will not handle Public Key authentication where the server cannot predict the secret ahead of time, for example. If SecurID just provides a changing time-based value specific to the user, and the server can reproduce this based on some shared secret between the server and the card, then it should work fine. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 17:24:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:24:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19646; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:22:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20969; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:17:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803110117.RAA20969@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Robert Watson cc: Mike Smith , Mark Mayo , Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:57:25 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:17:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > One possibility is to use Kerberos as a possible alternative to PAM itself > -- any authentication system that uses a shared secret (SecurID might fit > into that if the server can predict the secret ahead of time -- I'm not > familiar with SecurID) can be patched into the Kerberos server. Now any > code compiled to support Kerberos supports (shared secret authentication > method of choice). Actually, that's not where PAM fits in at all. Pam is, as its name suggests, a standardised modular framework within an application which allows the use of multiple authentication techniques, one of which may be Kerberos. One of the features of the framework is that it separates the configuration of authentication policy from the implementation. Thus, it is practical to 'stack' authentications in a primitive fashion. On the other hand, PAM has a numer of serious drawbacks in the design of the interface between the application and the framework, which make generalised PAMification of many common applications extremely tedious. At least part of the problem is that PAM was meant to be integrated in the perimeter security of the XSSO model, rather than in the piecemeal fashion it is currently deployed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 17:40:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:40:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22208; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA28602; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:38:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Mike Smith cc: Mark Mayo , Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-Reply-To: <199803110117.RAA20969@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > One possibility is to use Kerberos as a possible alternative to PAM itself > > -- any authentication system that uses a shared secret (SecurID might fit > > into that if the server can predict the secret ahead of time -- I'm not > > familiar with SecurID) can be patched into the Kerberos server. Now any > > code compiled to support Kerberos supports (shared secret authentication > > method of choice). > > Actually, that's not where PAM fits in at all. Ah, but it is! To support PAM, you have to modify your authenticating servers to support PAM. Many servers shipped with FreeBSD already support Kerberos due to the eBones and KTH distribution inclusion. If the goal is to support shared secret cards, then Kerberos can be used as a mechanism to carry the authentication request, and have tickets to carry around with you. Kerberos does not support challenge/response, as I note, but if it's just a simple shared secret arrangement, that is what the password in Kerberos does. A minor modification to the Kerberos servers to support the card would be needed, but the numerous authenticating daemons would not need to be changed. It's a hack, but so is PAM. > Pam is, as its name suggests, a standardised modular framework within > an application which allows the use of multiple authentication > techniques, one of which may be Kerberos. Yes. Similarly, Kerberos can be used to carry other so-called authentication mechanisms. Kerberos is really just a key distribution system supporting session keys, etc. To "authenticate" using kerberos, you merely have to prove that your secret can retrieve tickets in your name. We can substitute whatever we want for the password as long as it has the property of being a shared secret. This is, of course, the clinch, as many authentication mechanisms don't rely on shared secrets (PK asymetric keys, for example). PAM is an attempt to provide a single interface to a variety of authentication mechanisms so that daemons (etc) can easily authenticate without knowing about the details (as you know, as you hacked it for FreeBSD). Likewise, Kerberos can act as a carrier mechanism, and is already in many of these applications. It was a suggestion for a quick hack. I have been thinking about adding some sort of time-based password support into my kerberos server here so that administration accounts don't have a single secret that lasts a long time. Kerberos already provides us with ticket expiration; I also want secret expiration. > One of the features of the framework is that it separates the > configuration of authentication policy from the implementation. Thus, > it is practical to 'stack' authentications in a primitive fashion. See ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnssec-ar-00.txt for some discussion of authentication policy and stacking (well, specifically, forwarding of authentication from DNSsec identities to elsewhere). This isn't so much an OS issue as a network issue, but it's probably related if you're interested. Clearly, seperation of authentication and authorization is desirable; what I would like is a good mechanism for supporting various authentication mechanisms, and a language for mapping various authenticated identities into local identities. The problem with abstracting all of the authentication types is that you really lose a lot of features. You can, of course, have your pam_afs module that does token-gathering magic, but you do lose a lot. Different authentication systems offer many different services, and I am not sure that PAM offers a sufficiently general solution. > On the other hand, PAM has a numer of serious drawbacks in the design of > the interface between the application and the framework, which make > generalised PAMification of many common applications extremely tedious. > At least part of the problem is that PAM was meant to be integrated in > the perimeter security of the XSSO model, rather than in the piecemeal > fashion it is currently deployed. For network protocols, use of SASL-style libraries might provide some answers. I generally disapprove of SASL as a network protocol "Security" solution -- it brings to mind the whole pixie-dust problem, but from a programmers perspective it can make a lot of sense. For doing things with users directly, it isn't a solution. :) Authentication sucks, I guess we just have to deal with it. Or something. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 17:58:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24474 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:58:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24417; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21109; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:52:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803110152.RAA21109@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Robert Watson cc: Mike Smith , Mark Mayo , Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:38:38 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:52:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > One possibility is to use Kerberos as a possible alternative to PAM itself > > > -- any authentication system that uses a shared secret (SecurID might fit > > > into that if the server can predict the secret ahead of time -- I'm not > > > familiar with SecurID) can be patched into the Kerberos server. Now any > > > code compiled to support Kerberos supports (shared secret authentication > > > method of choice). > > > > Actually, that's not where PAM fits in at all. > > Ah, but it is! To support PAM, you have to modify your authenticating > servers to support PAM. Many servers shipped with FreeBSD already support > Kerberos due to the eBones and KTH distribution inclusion. If the goal is > to support shared secret cards, then Kerberos can be used as a mechanism > to carry the authentication request, and have tickets to carry around with > you. No, it's not, and no, it can't. As I said, PAM lives in the client application. It does this because of the way that the application and the PAM system interact. This interaction is not trivially transportable. > Kerberos does not support challenge/response, as I note, but if it's > just a simple shared secret arrangement, that is what the password in > Kerberos does. Again, no. PAM provides a scripted, authenticator-driven conversation mechanism. The nature of the conversation depends on the locally-configured policy for the application, but it's generally not transportable. > A minor modification to the Kerberos servers to support > the card would be needed, but the numerous authenticating daemons would > not need to be changed. Don't confuse PAM and SecurID. The two have almost nothing in common, other than that it is relatively trivial to use PAM to support the challenge-response technique used by SecurID. > PAM is an attempt to provide a single interface to a variety of > authentication mechanisms so that daemons (etc) can easily authenticate > without knowing about the details (as you know, as you hacked it for > FreeBSD). Likewise, Kerberos can act as a carrier mechanism, and is > already in many of these applications. Actually, PAM's design is about as poor as it can get for any server-style authentication. Tokens are requested by the authenticators on an as-required basis and the authenticators run in the same process context as the rest of the server. > It was a suggestion for a quick hack. I have been thinking about adding > some sort of time-based password support into my kerberos server here so > that administration accounts don't have a single secret that lasts a long > time. Kerberos already provides us with ticket expiration; I also want > secret expiration. If you are using a platform where SecurID's server side is supported, you'd be well advised to consider it. S/Key and OPIE are other candidates worth looking at. > you're interested. Clearly, seperation of authentication and > authorization is desirable; what I would like is a good mechanism for > supporting various authentication mechanisms, and a language for mapping > various authenticated identities into local identities. I think a lot of people would like this. I don't think I've seen one yet that provides a workable answer for multiple authentication techniques and legacy protocols. > Authentication sucks, I guess we just have to deal with it. Or something. Barcodes. On the forehead. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 18:00:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24841 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24830 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:00:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06441; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:12:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980310211202.06813@vmunix.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:12:02 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Context switches on cdrom.com ?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm just curious what the context switches per second numbers are like on a busy machine like ftp.cdrom.com.. What are people seeing on heavily loaded machines (where, in this case, heavy load means tons of processes)? I'd like to plop a FreeBSD machine into an installation that sees a lot of mail, and typically has about 700-1000 processes running. On my low-load servers around the house and lab, I rarely see the Csw number go above 250-300, but I only have about 150-200 processes.. I have managed to push Csw past 1000 on my PPro at home, but artificial tests like that rarely have anything to do with the Real World(tm)! :-) TIA, -Mark -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 18:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26047; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:04:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21163; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:00:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803110200.SAA21163@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: Robert Watson , Mark Mayo , Andrzej Bialecki , tcobb@staff.circle.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:52:56 PST." <199803110152.RAA21109@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:00:42 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Ah, but it is! To support PAM, you have to modify your authenticating > > servers to support PAM. Many servers shipped with FreeBSD already support > > Kerberos due to the eBones and KTH distribution inclusion. If the goal is > > to support shared secret cards, then Kerberos can be used as a mechanism > > to carry the authentication request, and have tickets to carry around with > > you. > > No, it's not, and no, it can't. Oh *sigh*. I misread your argument. Yes, to support shared-secret cards, Kerberos should work just fine, and it would be a much more sensible vector to consider for FreeBSD systems. I couldn't actually recommend PAM for general use at this time. There are better special-purpose solutions available, and as a general-purpose solution PAM is not adequate. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 18:13:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27588 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27562 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06819; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:13:12 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA15793; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:13:10 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980311031310.30458@follo.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:13:10 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: mike@smith.org.au Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Mike - I took the freedom of moving this to -hackers. Hope you don't mind.] Mike Smith wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > Why not generate the list at config time? Use sys/conf/userconfig, > > > sys/i386/conf/userconfig.i386 and sys/xxxxx/conf/userconfig.xxxxx and > > > generate a static array. > > > > That's possible, but I dislike adding more source meta files than > > strictly necessary. However, if we're going to go for the userland > > userconfig, this is probably the way it'll have to be. > > Bear in mind that the userland userconfig will only be working with ELF > kernels. If you can reliably stuff all the userconfig-like data into a > given not-normally-loaded segment at that point in time, then parking > it in the driver source itself is going to work just fine. So, can anybody tell me if I could do this? I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 19:12:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02813 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02774 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24172; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:07:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803110307.TAA24172@implode.root.com> To: Mark Mayo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Context switches on cdrom.com ?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:12:02 EST." <19980310211202.06813@vmunix.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:07:51 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I'm just curious what the context switches per second numbers are like >on a busy machine like ftp.cdrom.com. Around 2500/second, but varies depending on number of users, health of the Internet, etc. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 19:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05071 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05024 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:22:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04530; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd004481; Tue Mar 10 20:22:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09090; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:22:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803110322.UAA09090@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:22:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.org.au In-Reply-To: <19980311031310.30458@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Mar 11, 98 03:13:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device > list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be > added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this > now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? This is hard. The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets at run time, not at link time. This means that they can be in physically different ELF sections, but appear to be logically one set of data. Effectively, this means that the thing that loads the ELF sections into memory needs to build the linker set from pieces as it's loaded into memory, instead of the linker doing the agregation into a single set object. Part of this can be scoped out by noting that the count of items in a linker set is irrelevent, since the linker set always contains non-NULL pointers in a list terminated by a non-NULL pointer. At best, you can count the items when you agregate them, and fill in that number at runtime. At worst, you can linearly traverse from the first item to the NULL, and count the number of items in the linker set. This is a linker/loader technology problem. This is kind of complicated because you want a handle-based reference to the agregate set. This lets you reallocate it or extend it on the fly, without depending on the intervention of the linker/loader (consider the case of a loaded driver that supports the powerdown facilities, or a the vnode operations descriptor list being dynamically extended or shrunk at runtime as modules are loaded or unloaded). This is a problem that needs to be solved generally, regardless of difficulty (it's not *that* difficult a problem). This is useful for code dynamism for C++ (for example, pure virtual base classes implementing interfaces to objects not in your address space, which may be transient relative to your address space), so it should be acceptable to the gcc powers-that-be (linker sets were an outgrowth of C++ virtual base class construction/descruction for C++ shared libraries). It's also useful for C++ template classes, which may instance a derived class of a particular type in multiple dynamically linked units. For example, a template class instance of "int", for which a static member exists -- like a pthread_mutex_t. You would only want one mutex for all instances of the class, regardless of where there were instanced. Anyway, it's a linker/loader problem, so it has to be solved: o in ld o in ld.so o in the boot blocks o in kld Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 10 22:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22879 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.stinol.lipetsk.ru ([193.232.237.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22696 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:01:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ym@stinol.lipetsk.ru) Received: from exchange.stinol.int ([172.17.3.14]) by proxy.stinol.lipetsk.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5/sgena/290397) with ESMTP id JAA02619 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:00:12 +0300 (MSK) Received: by exchange.stinol.int with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:02:52 +0300 Message-ID: <26F5F31730F8D011A44100805F14F1FC21ED29@exchange.stinol.int> From: "Mashkovtsev, Yuri" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HA: MAC overriding Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:02:50 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "Is there any API for overriding host's MAC Ethernet address > > by the host itself ? Or should we patch the kernel ?" > > > It is but no driver yet does implement it as far as I know. > You say "yet" ? Does it mean that someone from FreeBSD development team is going to make this working ? > A good place to search for it is IPX code, if_ether.c, and > any driver's code (for example, if_ep.c). > Could you point me to any information source about kernel structure in a whole (this would let me get started). -- End of message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 02:14:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20225 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:14:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20175 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:14:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22528; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:11:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.org.au Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:22:29 GMT." <199803110322.UAA09090@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 02:11:35 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device > > list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be > > added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this > > now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? > > This is hard. > > The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets > at run time, not at link time. You're making things too difficult. 8) Use the preprocessor to swap between linker-set encoding (a.out) and whatever magic is required to park things in different ELF sections. (Actually, I recall being told that this was fairly hard to achieve, so perhaps it's not such a good idea?) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 04:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:47:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chez.McKusick.COM (chez.mckusick.com [205.217.47.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05064 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [205.217.47.105]) by chez.McKusick.COM (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA05373; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20707; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:42:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803111242.EAA20707@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tech-kern@netbsd.org, tech@openbsd.org Subject: Advanced BSD Course on Videotape In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 15:49:10 +0500." <3.0.5.32.19980309154910.007cc2e0@164.164.1.18> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:42:25 -0500 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This posting is in response to the request for information about the advanced class that I am teaching on kernel source internals. This course provides an in depth study of the source code of the FreeBSD kernel. This course is aimed at users with a good understanding of the algorithms used in the BSD kernel that want to learn the details of their implementation. Students are expected to have either taken the UNIX Kernel Internals class taught by the instructor (this course will be available on video tape in Fall 1998) or to have throughly read and understood ``The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System'' (published by Addison-Wesley Publishing Company). They are also expected to have a complete background in reading and programming in the C programming language. Students will not need to prove relationship with a source license holder, as the course is based on the non-proprietary kernel sources released by The FreeBSD Project. The class consists of fifteen 160 minute (2 hour 40 minute) lectures on the FreeBSD 2.2.5 kernel source code. The lecture topics are: 1) Organization, overview of source layout 2) Kernel header files 3) System calls and file open 4) Pathname translation 5) Vnode interface mechanics, write to a local file 6) Pipes and sockets 7) User datagram protocol and routing 8) TCP Algorithms 9) Fork, exit, and exec 10) Signal generation and delivery 11) Virtual memory header files 12) File mapping, page fault service, pageout processing 13) NFS client and server operation 14) Multiplexing with select, system startup 15) Using soft dependencies to eliminate synchronous I/O In addition to the fifteen lecture video tapes you also receive a copy of the FreeBSD 2.2.5 CD-ROM set (4 CDs) plus a printed copy of approximately half of the FreeBSD 2.2.5 kernel (three volumes totalling approximately 2000 pages). The cost of the course is $1500 for individuals, $2500 for companies wishing to buy it for internal use by their employees. Those paying the company rate may order extra copies of the materials for $200 per set. The tapes are in NTSC format; PAL format tapes are available for a $75 surcharge. Domestic shipping cost is included; international shipping has a $200 surcharge for postal delivery; a $500 surcharge for Federal Express or other courier delivery. Orders to the state of California must add 8.25% sales tax. Payment may be made by check, wired funds, Visa, or Mastercard. If you wish to get more information or place an order, please contact me at: mckusick@mckusick.com or by mail at: Marshall Kirk McKusick 1614 Oxford Street Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 06:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:48:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18666 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 06:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id HAA10346; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:44:27 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:44:27 -0700 (MST) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> you wrote: >> > I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device >> > list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be >> > added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this >> > now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? >> >> This is hard. >> >> The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets >> at run time, not at link time. > > You're making things too difficult. 8) Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. Linker sets are a pain. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 07:22:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22955 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18727; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:22:29 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA17731; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:22:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:22:28 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment References: <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 07:44:27AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 07:44:27AM -0700, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > In article <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> you wrote: > >> > I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device > >> > list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be > >> > added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this > >> > now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? > >> > >> This is hard. > >> > >> The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets > >> at run time, not at link time. > > > > You're making things too difficult. 8) > > Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to > LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point > in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. This is not feasible at present. There are several reasons: * The PCI LKM code in -current doesn't work * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out (AFAIK) * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) * The probe is too late - userconfig (presently, at least) run before anything is probed - to be able to stop harmful probes etc. * It is more work than I can chew, and thus won't be done as part of the minor set of changes I wanted to do. I was only planning to make userconfig data a linker set, and change config to (also) scan sys/conf/*/files.extra and sys/conf/*/options.extra, as an enabling technology for externally developed kernel parts. > Linker sets are a pain. Why more so than LKMs? As far as I can tell, LKMs are presently more of a pain than linker sets (though LKMs is also a more powerful enabling technology). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 07:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA23222 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:23:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA19137; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:23:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:23:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-Reply-To: <199803110152.RAA21109@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > If you are using a platform where SecurID's server side is supported, > you'd be well advised to consider it. S/Key and OPIE are other > candidates worth looking at. OPIE is neat save for a few things: information is stored in a way that requires root access, and suid programs, and ... you can get deadlocks due to the fact that the /etc/opiekeys file is locked during an authentication operation. i need an authentication mechanism that requires no root access by the programs, and that will not deadlock. any candidates? ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 07:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25134 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25124 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gibbs@plutotech.com) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13420; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:30:22 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803111530.IAA13420@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:22:28 +0100." <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:27:13 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> > You're making things too difficult. 8) >> >> Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to >> LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point >> in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. > >This is not feasible at present. There are several reasons: > * The PCI LKM code in -current doesn't work Probably because of pciconf being broken. If SE approves, this can be easily remedied by taking the pciconf code from CAM. > * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out > (AFAIK) > * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N > files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) Then provide a mechanism to have the driver entry point also called when linked statically. In a complete LKM solution, you should be able to load LKMs from a floppy for recovery or to add vendor supplied, binary only, modules during install. > * The probe is too late - userconfig (presently, at least) run > before anything is probed - to be able to stop harmful > probes etc. Which is one of the many flaws in our configuration scheme. It shouldn't be simply "probe" and "attach", but rather "register configuration items", run userconfig, probe, run userconfig again to set per instance config settings, perform attach. > * It is more work than I can chew, and thus won't be done as > part of the minor set of changes I wanted to do. I certainly agree, I was just stating how I believe it should really be done. >I was only planning to make userconfig data a linker set, and change >config to (also) scan sys/conf/*/files.extra and >sys/conf/*/options.extra, as an enabling technology for externally >developed kernel parts. > >> Linker sets are a pain. > >Why more so than LKMs? As far as I can tell, LKMs are presently more >of a pain than linker sets (though LKMs is also a more powerful >enabling technology). Because linker sets provide yet another stumbling block to providing good LKM support and I feel that real LKM support should be our goal. >Eivind. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 07:51:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28349 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:51:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28320 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18325 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:53:08 GMT Message-ID: <007201bd4d05$1c2b0ac0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: ouch, something dangerous in -current Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:48:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wasn't paying attention but my machine rebooted last night (early Mar 11 morning) while doing a make buildworld, this is the first time i've had a crash running -current. The machine had been re-built as of the night before (March 9th) I've had the load up to 19 at times running several large compiles in parallel, but this was the first panic i've had in a long long long time. :) can anyone recommend what to put in my config file to that next time i can see what happend? i have a lot of swap and i think setting the crash dump to it would be cool. i have a -stable box and would like to hook a null modem up to my -current box for better testing, anyone have any pointers on this? anyhow, i'm off to do some more reading on setting this up... thank you, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 08:01:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:01:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29893 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:01:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19636; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:01:08 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA17876; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:01:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980311170107.44621@follo.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:01:07 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment References: <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> <199803111530.IAA13420@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803111530.IAA13420@pluto.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 08:27:13AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 08:27:13AM -0700, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out > > (AFAIK) > > * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N > > files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) > > Then provide a mechanism to have the driver entry point also called when > linked statically. This sound like the following would be about right: for device in (static set of devices) find driver for in (linker set of drivers) call driver callback with info on device endfor show userconfig with devices registered by register_device #ifdef REALLY_CORRECT_SYSTEM_NOT_YET for each bus call probes endfor show userconfig again for each bus call attach endfor #else for each bus call probes call attach endfor #endif driver callback: call register_device for device, with suitable description etc. For the LKM case, the load-function would call register_device, and (possibly) force a re-probe. Does that sound right to you? The above actually sounds like it might be something that is reasonably quick to implement, and it would both solve my problem (creating an enabling technology for externally developed drivers in a fairly short time horizont) and be an enabling technology for further development (good handling of LKMs with a longer time horizon.) Only tradeoff: Old device drivers/LKMs Will Not Work, as they don't register themselves properly. This might be solvable (e.g, by scanning the present linker sets). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 08:01:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29927 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:01:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onion.ish.org (root@onion.ish.org [210.145.219.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29908 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ishizuka@ish.org) Received: from localhost (ishizuka@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by onion.ish.org (8.8.8/3.6Wbeta7-01/22/98) with ESMTP id BAA02228 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 01:01:15 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ouch, something dangerous in -current In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:48:16 -0500" <007201bd4d05$1c2b0ac0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> References: <007201bd4d05$1c2b0ac0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93b24 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980312010115C.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 01:01:15 +0900 From: Masachika ISHIZUKA X-Dispatcher: imput version 980302 Lines: 14 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I wasn't paying attention but my machine rebooted last night (early Mar 11 > morning) while doing a make buildworld, this is the first time i've had a > crash running -current. The machine had been re-built as of the night > before (March 9th) I've had the load up to 19 at times running several > large compiles in parallel, but this was the first panic i've had in a long > long long time. :) I did upgrade 3.0-980309-SNAP from 3.0-971022-SNAP yesterday, but it was rebooted automatically when NFS disk was accessed hardly. I think 3.0-980309-SNAP is not stable. --- ishizuka@ish.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 08:21:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:21:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02242 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:21:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA27543; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:20:54 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980311182053.65072@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:20:53 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ddb References: <19980309201318.43775@techunix.technion.ac.il> <19980311094143.32447@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980311094143.32447@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:41:43AM +1030 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, Greg Lehey, were spotted writing this on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:41:43AM +1030: > > 2. Encapsulation of traps on entry/exit; i.e. you can't panic by > > trying to read nonexistent page in ddb, > > Definitely. The fact that ddb can cause traps is a bug. I'm somewhat unclear yet on hierarchy issues. Such a change would definitely be i386-dependent; and sys/ddb seems to be architecture-neutral on purpose. Where does this change belong then? > > 3. Independence from syscons, and ability to be brought up on > > just about hardest crashes, when syscons goes down too. > > At some point you need to negotiate with syscons. Why? You can do your own I/O pretty easily, w/ saving/restoring current syscons' virtual screen and trapping keyboard. Of course, that, too, would be very pc-centric. > > 3.5. A printf-style routine directing to the debugger to print on > > its terminal; unlike tprintf/uprintf/kvprintf and friends, > > blocking and guaranteed to print everything no matter how often > > called. (maybe there's such a beast already and I missed it? pray tell). > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding the background here. What's the problem > with kvprintf? It uses syscons and appears to be nonblocking. If you kvprintf in a place which is called very often, you lose output or parts of it (happened to me all the time as I inserted tprintf's in NFS code). > > 4. Intel-style asm listing (yeah, right, flame away). > > It would be nice to use Intel mnemonics, so that at least you could > refer to the Intel literature, but until the whole system has changed, > it would just confuse things. I vote against. What about an option? > > 5. Better integration with the kernel; i.e. change address spaces > > inside ddb, > > That's the big one. I want to be able to analyse hangs, and at the > moment I can't because I'm either not in a process environment, or in > the wrong one. Another very desirable feature is breakpoints conditioned on virtual space (i.e. break on nfs_write() in syncer process only). Of course, full-featured conditional breakpoints would be even better... > > intelligent display of important structures (mbuf, buffer, iostruct, > > whatever). > > Well, if it reads in the kernel symbol table, it'll know *all* the > structs. kgdb can display them. It would be nice to have ddb (or > replacement) do so as well. Does the usual -g in compiler flags insert structs layout as well? > Of course, all these things would require a ridiculous amount of > locked memory--maybe as much as 32 MB. Why? I disagree. The symbol table is already there in the kernel image, and you don't have to copy all of it. Unless you want to bring ALL the /sys into locked memory, you can do well with 1-2Mb of locked memory reserved for sources, which is how much sources you usually deal with during a single debug anyway. > 10 MB. For many applications, this usage would be warranted, but it > would make sense to cater for installing only partial sources, and > removing them when you're done. Exactly. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 08:23:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02703 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02672 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18912; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:25:33 GMT Message-ID: <007d01bd4d09$a3438ec0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Masachika ISHIZUKA" Subject: Re: ouch, something dangerous in -current Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:20:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well i had been using the -current box as an NFS server, some weird things happend when i used it, i'm just mounting the /usr/X11R6 dir so i can use the libs for apsfilter, no problems there, except the pages came out funny a couple of times, then they printed ok... but that was hours before my fatal make world... -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Masachika ISHIZUKA To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 7:06 AM Subject: Re: ouch, something dangerous in -current >> I wasn't paying attention but my machine rebooted last night (early Mar 11 >> morning) while doing a make buildworld, this is the first time i've had a >> crash running -current. The machine had been re-built as of the night >> before (March 9th) I've had the load up to 19 at times running several >> large compiles in parallel, but this was the first panic i've had in a long >> long long time. :) > > I did upgrade 3.0-980309-SNAP from 3.0-971022-SNAP yesterday, >but it was rebooted automatically when NFS disk was accessed >hardly. > I think 3.0-980309-SNAP is not stable. > >--- >ishizuka@ish.org > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 08:44:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from konig.elte.hu (konig.elte.hu [157.181.6.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05884 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:44:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from szoli@cs.elte.hu) Received: from neumann.cs.elte.hu (neumann [157.181.6.200]) by konig.elte.hu (8.8.8/8.8.8/3s) with ESMTP id RAA11256 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:45:33 +0100 Received: from localhost (szoli@localhost) by neumann.cs.elte.hu (8.8.8/8.8.8/1c) with SMTP id RAA31254 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:43:58 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: neumann.cs.elte.hu: szoli owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:43:58 +0100 (MET) From: Zoltan Sebestyen To: FreeBSD hackers mailinglist Subject: A Question about FreeBSD and Linux(programming) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have to write an application on Linux that deals with the serial port. I have installed a Redhat besides the FreeBSD(I didn't erase FBSD it'll stay there until the end of the world), but finally gave up to use it. Does anyone(for example Doug White ;-) know if the termio functions (like tcgetattr tcsetattr tcflush tcdrain) behave on FBSD like on Linux? Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sebestyen Zoltan It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up. szoli@digo.inf.elte.hu But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid? MAKE INSTALL NOT WAR And please avoid Necrosoft Widows To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 09:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17578 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17568 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:50:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21908; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd021906; Wed Mar 11 09:37:55 1998 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:33:34 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment In-Reply-To: <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Exactly! My main idea is that all drivers should be lkms those that are linked in at compile time use a single linker set to call the exact same init() routines that would have been called when they were loaded as an lkm. I've been SLOWLY working towards this for a few years now :) Thats why most drivers now have such an init routine that it uses to add it's devsw entry. On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > In article <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> you wrote: > >> > I was basically planning to look at distributing the userconfig device > >> > list as a linker set, to allow externally developed drivers to be > >> > added without having to edit a static list. I know how to do this > >> > now, but how easy is it to put it in a non-loaded segment later? > >> > >> This is hard. > >> > >> The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets > >> at run time, not at link time. > > > > You're making things too difficult. 8) > > Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to > LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point > in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. > > Linker sets are a pain. > > -- > Justin > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 10:00:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19561 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:00:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05712; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:56:53 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3506D05E.C57B53A@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:56:50 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zoltan Sebestyen CC: FreeBSD hackers mailinglist Subject: Re: A Question about FreeBSD and Linux(programming) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zoltan Sebestyen wrote: > Hi, > > I have to write an application on Linux that deals with the serial port. > I have installed a Redhat besides the FreeBSD(I didn't erase FBSD it'll > stay there until the end of the world), but finally gave up to use it. > Does anyone(for example Doug White ;-) know if the termio functions (like > tcgetattr tcsetattr tcflush tcdrain) behave on FBSD like on Linux? > standart port commands: #ifdef HAVE_TERMIOS #include ?termios.h> #define termio termios #define TCSETATTR TIOSETADDR #define TCGETADDR TIOGETADDR #define ... // +prefix TIO #else #include ?termio.h> #endif P.S: may be include in FreeBSD termio.h, with translation to termios. becouse, it is common problem in porting application from SYSV. I can wrote one, if it would be committed . > Thanks > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sebestyen Zoltan It all seems so stupid, > it makes me want to give up. > szoli@digo.inf.elte.hu But why should I give up, > when it all seems so stupid? > > MAKE INSTALL NOT WAR And please avoid Necrosoft Widows > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 10:27:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25715 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA18643; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:32:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: Zoltan Sebestyen , FreeBSD hackers mailinglist Subject: Re: A Question about FreeBSD and Linux(programming) In-Reply-To: <3506D05E.C57B53A@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > #include ?termios.h> == "Netscape 4.x Was Here" ;-| -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 10:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA04098; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:51:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22121 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:50:38 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01049; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:28:35 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803111828.TAA01049@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Fault tolerance issues In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Mar 10, 98 03:40:34 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:28:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert@primenet.com X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Simon Shapiro wrote... > > On 10-Mar-98 Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Since there is a lot of interest (well, at least discussion) in HA: > > > > why not add a freebsd-ha mailinglist to majordomo? > > > > This keeps people from frantically editing their .procmailrc to filter > > out the HA threads from -hackers. > > Good idea. How about moving it to freebsd-database which is already there. > Besides, only database winnies are interested in such stuff... Na. That is A. not 'meaningful naming' and B. I don't agree that only DB weenies are interested. For one WWW server weenies are interested, maybe people running public ftp servers etc. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 10:55:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:55:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05507 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02785; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:54:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd002748; Wed Mar 11 11:54:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27983; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:54:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803111854.LAA27983@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment To: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:54:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 11, 98 07:44:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> The problem is that you need to be able to agregate linker sets > >> at run time, not at link time. > > > > You're making things too difficult. 8) > > Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to > LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point > in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. > > Linker sets are a pain. If you don't care about it working with a.out, use section attribution. I don't know how to select a section name in gcc; it may be with the same #pragma's a Visual C++, given that there is a gcc that compiles WIN32 code. Kernel loader (boot blocks): load normal code sections load normal data sections seperately load "init" (or whatever) sections provide an interface for the kernel to iterate the sections loaded kernel iterates config sections kernel registers a configuration with a configurator from: (A) self (B) config section references KLD loader (loadable kernel modules) load normal code sections load normal data sections seperately load "init" (or whatever) sections directlyly invoke the same registration mechanism, per above User config (unloadable kernel modules) identify config section for module to be removed deregister it free its memory This last implies that the code section, data section, and "init" section are sperated in the kernel for devices which can be unloaded. Adding a driver to the default kernel can be done with an ELF image archiver that can paste its sections onto the end, or not. This presumes the code is PIC. Userconfig for adding a driver: KLD the driver archive it's sections into the kernel so it will be there on the next reboot Userconfig for deleting a driver: unload the module archive it's sections out of the kernel so it won't be there on the next reboot If we had a (mythical) third stage boot, we could agregate ELF sections in memory *much* more easily. You would assemble an index as you loaded each file in the /kern/modules directory, making it available to the kernel. Everything that could be seperate would be, even if it were boot-critical, since the boot blocks would be seperable. Hardware that wasn'r probed present would have its module unloaded. Hardware that would be present, but the user foolishly wants, for some reason, to not load the associated module -- well, the user can move the module to /kern/modules/inactive. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 11:12:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:12:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10144 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23996; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:09:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803111909.LAA23996@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:23:13 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:09:56 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > i need an authentication mechanism that requires no root access by the > programs, and that will not deadlock. any candidates? NIS? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 11:27:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13517 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13446 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:27:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15061; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014986; Wed Mar 11 12:26:47 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00112; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:26:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803111926.MAA00112@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:26:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Mar 11, 98 04:22:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is not feasible at present. There are several reasons: > > * The PCI LKM code in -current doesn't work Well, before you embark on a grand brick building, lets make sure the bricks are there and that the foundation is laid. > * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out > (AFAIK) A nice migration mechanism at this point would be to depend on ELF kernel modules, but an a.out kernel. That said, you can do it using the "extras" section. The "extras" is a header that follows the code/data that's "supposed to be there" according to the a.out information. You know how big it is by looking at the length of the file and subtracting out what's supposed to be there. It's a crutch for not having ELF, really. > * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N > files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) I think it raises it. If I get a failure in my sound driver, my system still boots. 8-). > * The probe is too late - userconfig (presently, at least) run > before anything is probed - to be able to stop harmful > probes etc. Harmful probes are (or should be) a non-PNP ISA card problem, only. One way around this is to have "discardable" ELF sections. Leave the visual config code, etc., in the kernel for boot, but then discard (and reclaim the memory used by) the configurator when you are done with configuring. > * It is more work than I can chew, and thus won't be done as > part of the minor set of changes I wanted to do. I think that there needs to be a coherent plan to use ELF section attribution. With the importation of the ELF tools, FreeBSD is now in a position where it could rely on ELF for kernel modules, even for a.out kernels. This not a bad thing; the ELF kernel module problem has to be solved anyway. > I was only planning to make userconfig data a linker set, and change > config to (also) scan sys/conf/*/files.extra and > sys/conf/*/options.extra, as an enabling technology for externally > developed kernel parts. This is the sort of thing that will be hard to replace because it will work "well enough". 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amsoft.ru (amsoft.ru [194.87.86.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08439 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:02:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from am@amsoft.ru) Received: (from am@localhost) by amsoft.ru (8.8.8/amsoft/1.0) id XAA02556 ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:17:10 +0300 (MSK) From: Andrew Maltsev Message-Id: <199803112017.XAA02556@amsoft.ru> Subject: Re: APM power off (patch) In-Reply-To: <199803101958.LAA19859@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at "Mar 10, 98 11:58:49 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:17:10 +0300 (MSK) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, walter@fortean.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: AM'soft X-Location: Oryol (http://www.oryol.ru/), Russia X-Phone: +7 086 229 9988 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ...btw I see no code in 2.2-stable branch to power down > > laptop. RB_POWEROFF is not analized anywhere in kernel. > > No, it's only in -current. > > > I do not pretend my patch to be hard done job or very urgent - it's very > > simple and obvious - but it adds functionality to 2.2 branch. And to me > > it's better than nothing. That's all. > > It'd be better to merge the code from -current, just for consistency's > sake. To my dismiss I have no time to deal with -current. Btw, I'd upgraded 2.2 apm driver to APM 1.2 compatible state during my experiments with blocking power off button (failed experiments, btw). Added required capabilities_change event and syscall to get APM capabilities. Is it already done in -current or should I post a patch (as usually - very obvious one) somewhere? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09853 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09784 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01666 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:06:11 GMT Message-ID: <3506FCD4.7F0A0BD@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:06:28 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment References: <199803111011.CAA22528@dingo.cdrom.com> <199803111444.HAA10346@narnia.plutotech.com> <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > > Exactly. Don't use a linker set at all. Convert all drivers to > > LKMs, load they "probe" section of all LKMs, have an entry point > > in the probe section register the driver with userconfig. Just an idea I had: would it not be possible to load a word (or list of words) at a know offset in the LKM specifying the PCI Vendor ID and PCI Device IDs the device driver is interested in? That way the OS can handle all the probing is a much faster manner, and before the drivers load, such that so lurky probe code gets called. This would seem much more efficient, but [in this simplified model,] would not handle cases where one device driver could handle multiple Vendor IDs and Device IDs (which is where lists come in). OK, and also you couldn't execute any other code in the probe section, as there wouldn't be one (there could be a post-probe function). There would also have to be a list of device names to match the Device IDs. This may not be too hard to implement, and IMHO it makes sense (perhaps only for PCI). Thanks, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:18:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chasm.merrimack.edu (chasm.merrimack.edu [204.165.80.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12092 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from greg@merrimack.edu) Received: from merrimack.edu (204.165.80.150) by chasm.merrimack.edu (MX V5.0) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:13:22 -1300 Message-ID: <3506FEC1.7D9312B2@merrimack.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:14:41 -0500 From: Greg Fraize Reply-To: greg@merrimack.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: for loop at your command prompt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG can someone please tell me how I could do a for loop at my shell prompt... I've seen it done before...but I was un-able to remember what that person type ..thans Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14795 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14749 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:32:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA13928; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:32:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:32:22 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Mike Smith cc: "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAM? In-Reply-To: <199803111909.LAA23996@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > i need an authentication mechanism that requires no root access by the > > programs, and that will not deadlock. any candidates? > > NIS? Kerberos! :) Sorry, personal bias here. Still wondering about a long term authentication solution. A few weeks ago I posted about possibly starting an alternative authentication system mailing list on the -hackets list, and it was received well (I received a number of responses indicating people would join if created). Once I have my IETF drafts in for the week (deadline Friday) maybe I will put together a possible charter for such a mailing list. Certainly, FreeBSD should be looking at the POSIX ACLs and capabilities. I'm not sure I'd use them myself (they seem a little too single-system-centric to me) but having support in the OS can go a long way. I understand that Linux has them implemented at this point. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.20.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17009 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu) Received: from rodan.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.968448C0@mailer.syr.edu>; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:41:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (cmsedore@localhost) by rodan.syr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20561 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:41:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rodan.syr.edu: cmsedore owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@rodan.syr.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Network counters -> 64bit? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm currently wrapping my packet counts on about a 5-7 day interval on my FreeBSD box (yes, 4+ billion packets incoming and 4+ billion outgoing). I began to wonder if there was work underway to move the network interface, ip stack, etc packet counters to 64 bits. This box has been up for 48 days under this load without difficulty, and I'd like to be able to gather stats without concern for counter wrapping... -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 13:47:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18719 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18558 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA14124; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:46:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Christopher Sedore cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network counters -> 64bit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Christopher Sedore wrote: > I'm currently wrapping my packet counts on about a 5-7 day interval on my > FreeBSD box (yes, 4+ billion packets incoming and 4+ billion outgoing). I > began to wonder if there was work underway to move the network interface, > ip stack, etc packet counters to 64 bits. > > This box has been up for 48 days under this load without difficulty, and > I'd like to be able to gather stats without concern for counter > wrapping... My counters wrap within a day for bytes transmitted/received on various interfaces, and this can make it hard to sample network usage for monitoring purposes. I'd hate to see how fast ftp.cdrom.com goes. :) It would be helpful to have better network statistics kept; 32 bits just ain't that much any more. :) Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 15:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06767 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050ndd.san.rr.com (root@dt050ndd.san.rr.com [204.210.31.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06637; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:22:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (dougdougdougdoug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050ndd.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04701; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:22:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35071CB2.A4620F21@dal.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:22:26 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0310 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greg@merrimack.edu CC: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: for loop at your command prompt References: <3506FEC1.7D9312B2@merrimack.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This isn't a hacker's question, so I'm sending it to -questions where you should follow it up if need be. Greg Fraize wrote: > > can someone please tell me how I could do a > for loop at my shell prompt... Assuming that you are using either bash (yay :) or /bin/sh, all you need to do is type it in. You'll get a secondary prompt till you type in 'done' and then your little command line will run. Here's an example of something that I use all the time, bonus points if you can tell me what it does. :) bash$ for FOO in `ls /usr/local/bin/*ntp*`; do > ln -s $FOO ${FOO##*/} > done You could also type it in all on one line, but I think it's more fun to do it a line at a time. :) It's also easier to see what's happening. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 16:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20053 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA02987; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:46:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:46:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Greg Fraize cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: for loop at your command prompt In-Reply-To: <3506FEC1.7D9312B2@merrimack.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Greg Fraize wrote: > can someone please tell me how I could do a > for loop at my shell prompt... > I've seen it done before...but I was un-able to remember what > that person type ..thans > Greg % sh # for i in www.freebsd.org www.yahoo.com www.openbsd.org; do > ping -c 5 $i > /dev/null > done (it does it) # exit % :) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 17:05:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23042 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23007 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:04:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13934; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:04:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980311170451.42882@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:04:51 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment References: <19980311162228.43166@follo.net> <199803111530.IAA13420@pluto.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199803111530.IAA13420@pluto.plutotech.com>; from Justin T. Gibbs on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 08:27:13AM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin T. Gibbs scribbled this message on Mar 11: > > * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out > > (AFAIK) > > * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N > > files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) > > Then provide a mechanism to have the driver entry point also called when > linked statically. In a complete LKM solution, you should be able to > load LKMs from a floppy for recovery or to add vendor supplied, binary > only, modules during install. I was thinking about working on a three stage boot that would support this... along with this would allow us to dump the current kernel's main, and replace it with code that handles loading the modules... this has the benifit of removing the SYSINIT code from two different locations... > > * The probe is too late - userconfig (presently, at least) run > > before anything is probed - to be able to stop harmful > > probes etc. > > Which is one of the many flaws in our configuration scheme. It shouldn't > be simply "probe" and "attach", but rather "register configuration items", > run userconfig, probe, run userconfig again to set per instance config > settings, perform attach. yep... this is the way it should be... > > * It is more work than I can chew, and thus won't be done as > > part of the minor set of changes I wanted to do. > > I certainly agree, I was just stating how I believe it should really > be done. > > >I was only planning to make userconfig data a linker set, and change > >config to (also) scan sys/conf/*/files.extra and > >sys/conf/*/options.extra, as an enabling technology for externally > >developed kernel parts. > > > >> Linker sets are a pain. > > > >Why more so than LKMs? As far as I can tell, LKMs are presently more > >of a pain than linker sets (though LKMs is also a more powerful > >enabling technology). > > Because linker sets provide yet another stumbling block to providing > good LKM support and I feel that real LKM support should be our goal. no, linker sets work fine with kld... it's just that no one spent the time to get linker sets working fine with LKM's... I'm not using linker sets in my bus/device code just because I want to definately know when a driver arrives, not to stuble upon it when I reprobe or anything... pretty much all of this configuration talk will be covered by the new bus/device code that I'm working on... even though Terry likes to show off elf... there has yet to be anyone to actually write an elf module for the kld code... right now, the only executable format that transparent to loading and unloading is a.out and not elf... so until someone actually fixes elf to have all the features that a.out has, it's not that great of a solution... I did come across some more diskspace, so I'm planning on committing my VFS changes in a week or so... this is the second warning... and if I don't get any objections, it's the last... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem Rev/FAX: +1 541 346 9237 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 17:18:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25259 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:18:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25236 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:18:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25233; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:15:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803120115.RAA25233@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John-Mark Gurney cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: userconfig data -> linker set -> ELF segment In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:04:51 PST." <19980311170451.42882@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:15:08 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Justin T. Gibbs scribbled this message on Mar 11: > > > * Loading 'just the probe code' isn't possible using a.out > > > (AFAIK) > > > * Depending on device drivers being LKMs lowers reliability (N > > > files that can fail, instead of just having a single kernel) > > > > Then provide a mechanism to have the driver entry point also called when > > linked statically. In a complete LKM solution, you should be able to > > load LKMs from a floppy for recovery or to add vendor supplied, binary > > only, modules during install. > > I was thinking about working on a three stage boot that would support > this... along with this would allow us to dump the current kernel's > main, and replace it with code that handles loading the modules... Please look at the NetBSD bootstrap before leaping into this. 8) > I did come across some more diskspace, so I'm planning on committing > my VFS changes in a week or so... this is the second warning... and > if I don't get any objections, it's the last... Good luck. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 17:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:26:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27226 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA27322 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:27:27 GMT Message-ID: <012d01bd4d55$59c84d20$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: SYSVMEM leak? Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:22:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i've been playing with a bunch of programs and they all seem to like to leave around SYSVSHM segments, this is especially problematic in programs running under the linux emulation. i get a lot of messages on the consol: linux-emu(1040) - setup() not implemented. this is running x11amp. well i did a man on "setup" on a friend's linux box machine... and it says that no linux program should be calling this function as it's reserved for kernel functions... but the linux man pages seem horribly out of date... so i am quite confused... what can i do to try to fix this? where can i look? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 18:15:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05953 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:15:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05883; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:15:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25351; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:15:22 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:15:17 -0600 To: ctm-announce@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Last Chance - Proposal to discontinue CTM distribution of FreeBSD-2.1 Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry to hit so many lists, but I think that it is important to make sure that everyone has a chance to complain before it is too late. As far as I can see, the 2.1 branch is either dead, or so near it that I do not think that the weekly delta generation for this branch is worth the effort. If there are any additional changes to the branch, they will still be available by CVSup or can be extracted from your local copy of the CVS tree which is contained on the latest CD's. Since I feel that most users who have not already upgraded to 2.2 are still running 2.1 because, for their purpose, "it ain't broke", I doubt that they are are really interested in updating 2.1. Therefore, this is your final warning. Unless I hear strong opposition, the ctm-src-2_1 list will be terminated and the diskspace on the various mirrors will be released next week. Therefore, if you object, speak up NOW. Richard Wackerbarth CTM-Meister To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 18:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12140; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23207; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:28:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA01971; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:28:01 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980312132800.27545@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:28:00 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Yuri Krichevsky Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Serial port problems with Acer UARTs--solved References: <199803120036.QAA25076@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803120036.QAA25076@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 04:36:03PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:54:51 +0200 (IST), Yuri Krichevsky wrote: > Hi. > > This is small patch for FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE, that fixes > problem with detecting serial ports on IWill motherboards > (I hope, it will work for COMPAQ LTE Elite machines also). > > I don't think it is right way to detect serial ports, so > please use my patch only if you have this problem. > > > P.S. > after reboot, you may get message like this > 'sio0: 65 events for device without tp' - just ignore it. Thanks greatly for this patch, Yuri. Doubtless it can do with cleaning up, but it did the trick for me (running on an Iwill P55XB2 board). At Mike Smith's request, I've put the patch up at http://www.lemis.com/serial-port-patch.html. As I mention there, if anybody else takes the patch, please inform Yuri of the results. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 20:19:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23463 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:19:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23440; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id UAA13727; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA09824; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:54:56 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199803120354.TAA09824@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Serial port problems with Acer UARTs--solved In-Reply-To: <19980312132800.27545@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 12, 98 01:28:00 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:54:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: yury@nest.bistbn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Greg Lehey: > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:54:51 +0200 (IST), Yuri Krichevsky wrote: > > Hi. > > > > This is small patch for FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE, that fixes > > problem with detecting serial ports on IWill motherboards > > (I hope, it will work for COMPAQ LTE Elite machines also). > > > > I don't think it is right way to detect serial ports, so > > please use my patch only if you have this problem. > > > > > > P.S. > > after reboot, you may get message like this > > 'sio0: 65 events for device without tp' - just ignore it. > > Thanks greatly for this patch, Yuri. Doubtless it can do with > cleaning up, but it did the trick for me (running on an Iwill P55XB2 > board). > > At Mike Smith's request, I've put the patch up at > http://www.lemis.com/serial-port-patch.html. As I mention there, if > anybody else takes the patch, please inform Yuri of the results. > > Greg > Just a ponderance. In his code Yuri warns that this is a temporary fix. The sio.c code isn't likely to smoke my m'board, but since it works on my ASUS/IWill board, what is wrong with including this permanent? gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 20:24:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24381 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:24:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01322 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:24:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199803120424.WAA01322@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Increasing partitions.. (or new config option for MAXPARTITIONS) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:24:09 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there any possibility of increasing the default number of partitions? It would really be nice to have more than 8, although what exactly the issues are, I'm not sure. If it is not a reasonable to bump the default, I would like to at least make it a config option as in NetBSD.. Any thoughts? Chris Csanady To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 11 22:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13956 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08502; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:13:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803120613.WAA08502@implode.root.com> To: Robert Watson cc: Christopher Sedore , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network counters -> 64bit? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:46:10 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:13:50 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >monitoring purposes. I'd hate to see how fast ftp.cdrom.com goes. :) It Output bytes wraps about every 20 minutes (we're sending out about 1/4TB per day). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 00:59:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29486; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:59:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26564; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:54:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803120854.AAA26564@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Gary Kline cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), yury@nest.bistbn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serial port problems with Acer UARTs--solved In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:54:56 PST." <199803120354.TAA09824@tao.thought.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:54:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:54:51 +0200 (IST), Yuri Krichevsky wrote: > > > I don't think it is right way to detect serial ports, so > > > please use my patch only if you have this problem. ... > Just a ponderance. In his code Yuri warns that this is > a temporary fix. The sio.c code isn't likely to smoke my > m'board, but since it works on my ASUS/IWill board, what is > wrong with including this permanent? Like he says, it's the wrong way to do it. The Acer part in question doesn't seem to behave very much like a real UART, which is why the extremely braindead test is needed to find it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 11:15:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:15:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA05405 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00366 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:12:33 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA01378 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:50:23 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803121850.TAA01378@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: FYI: for people who want Solaris/x86... To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:50:22 +0100 (MET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Check out http://www.sun.com/solaris/tradein.html if you want/need Solaris/x86. Looks like you could tradein an old FreeBSD CDROM too. [no, I don't intend to run Solaris, just thought it might be useful to someone] WIlko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 11:53:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aramis.rutgers.edu (talukdar@aramis.rutgers.edu [128.6.4.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14021; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from talukdar@aramis.rutgers.edu) Received: (from talukdar@localhost) by aramis.rutgers.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11084; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:51:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:51:43 -0500 (EST) From: Anup Talukdar Message-Id: <199803121951.OAA11084@aramis.rutgers.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Installing new kernel Cc: talukdar@cs.rutgers.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am trying to install FreeBSD 2.2.5 including the PAO package into a new laptop. First, I have successfully installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 (via anonymous FTP from www.freebsd.org). Now I am trying to install the PAO package. I have the following configurations : DELL Latitude XPI CD 3COM Etherlink III 3C589c card I have applied the kernel patch to the kernel source tree and built the new kernel. I am not able to boot with the newly built kernel. When the boot fails, I get the following messages: ------------------------- Initializing PC-card drivers: aic hss ed ep fe sn scc sio spc wdc ncv stg Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 5 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 0 on pci0:6 vga0 rev 2 int a irq ?? on pci0:7 pci0:8: CMD, device=0x0643, class=storage (ide) int a irq 14 [no driver assigned] pcic0 rev 1 int a irq 9 on pci0:9:0 NMI ... going to debugger kernel: type 19 trap, code=0 Stopped at _pcic_pci_attach+0x235: cmpl $0,_bootverbose db> --------------------------- If someone can kindly explain me the problem and how I can overcome it, I will be very thankful. Thanks, Anup To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 15:44:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28309 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:43:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04599; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:43:18 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199803122343.UAA04599@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: SYSVMEM leak? In-Reply-To: <012d01bd4d55$59c84d20$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> from Alfred Perlstein at "Mar 11, 98 08:22:39 pm" To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:43:18 -0300 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Alfred Perlstein) // i've been playing with a bunch of programs and they all seem to like to // leave around SYSVSHM segments, this is especially problematic in programs // running under the linux emulation. // // i get a lot of messages on the consol: // linux-emu(1040) - setup() not implemented. SYSSHM memory should be politely released by the program, as it's not done at exit(). If the program has simply aborted, chances are that the shmem is not being release. Take a look at ipcrm(1). Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 16:55:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p7.tfs.net [139.146.210.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10932 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:54:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id SAA01242 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:53:53 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199803130053.SAA01242@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: FYI: for people who want Solaris/x86... (fwd) To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:53:52 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #5: Sun Mar 8 12:29:10 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > Check out http://www.sun.com/solaris/tradein.html if you want/need > Solaris/x86. Looks like you could tradein an old FreeBSD CDROM too. > > [no, I don't intend to run Solaris, just thought it might be useful to > someone] > > WIlko 2.6 Desktop - $495 [includes 2-yr subs], no development tools... 2.6 Server - $2895 [includes 2-yr subs], no development tools... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 17:09:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14000 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orka.linkeasy.net (orka.linkeasy.net [206.111.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13975 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:09:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jason@linkeasy.net) Received: from argo.linkeasy.net (argo.linkeasy.net [206.111.42.7]) by orka.linkeasy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05161 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:57:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803130057.QAA05161@orka.linkeasy.net> X-Sender: jason@mail.linkeasy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Demo Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:10:41 -0800 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: Jason Slocomb Subject: FreeBSD User Group Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know of a FreeBSD or BSD/OS user group in the Los Angeles area? Jason Slocomb UNIX SYSTEMS ENGINEER To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 18:36:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27882 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27555 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:35:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13094 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:36:29 GMT Message-ID: <008001bd4e28$274f2ac0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Re: SYSVMEM leak? thanks you but... Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:29:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i appreciate all the feedback from people on this issue, however it might be due to a buggy program here and there, however i'm quite sure it is due to a missing feature or bug in the Linux-EMU, i am interested in looking at this, but there is hardly anything that i can find to help me. the problem seems to manifest itself in StarOffice 4.0 and x11amp. they do not seem to be present in -stable, but they might, (i saw staroffice running for a bit on a -stable system) when i run staroffice it seems to run amok with allocating segments... it grabs a LOT of them.. in fact all of them, then it crashes before i can even do anything. it gives a large dump that ends in: SalImage::Create pShmInfo_->shmid < 0 (28) SalImage::Create pShmInfo_->shmid < 0 (28) then it just locks... some sort of runaway leakage of SYSVSHM in the linux emu. the problem occurs running x11amp, the linux libc version, it seems to lose 3 SYSVMEM segments everytime it playes a mp3... along with that a message is printed at the consol: Linux-emu(1024) - Setup() not implemented. the 1024 is the pid of the process, x11amp seems to be fine... but it dies when i finally run out of shared memory segments, i doubt this problem exists on linux boxes... i will rephrase my original e-mail: I know how to delete SYSVMEM segments by hand, but i don't want to have to do this... and no.... i do NOT want to run a cron job that deletes all my segments cause that is a bogus hack. what i need is: 1) a bit of understanding via a pointer to ANY sort of documentation on why i'm getting that error (obviously an unimplemented function in the linux emu) 2) why the emu is reporting this error (setup() not implemented)... i just checked on a friend's linux machine the man page for "setup()" and it seems that it is a function that is only called by the kernel only at bootup. i know linux documentation is horribly out of date.... and i do plan on mucking through the linux header files and whatnot for this... 3) a pointer and some adivice on where to look in the linux emu to examine this... 4) how to debug the x11amp (i'll figure this out on my own i'm sure) but i'm sure it is stripped. 5) are these segments being allocated on behalf of the program? or does the linux EMU allocate them to emulate some linux "feature"? thank you, -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: Re: SYSVMEM leak? >#define quoting(Alfred Perlstein) >// i've been playing with a bunch of programs and they all seem to like to >// leave around SYSVSHM segments, this is especially problematic in programs >// running under the linux emulation. >// >// i get a lot of messages on the consol: >// linux-emu(1040) - setup() not implemented. > >SYSSHM memory should be politely released by the program, as it's not >done at exit(). If the program has simply aborted, chances are that >the shmem is not being release. Take a look at ipcrm(1). > > Jonny > >-- >Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br >+55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br >Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI >PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 19:18:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05794 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:18:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05684 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-213.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.213]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA25321; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:18:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA02512; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:44:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803130244.UAA02512@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Zoltan Sebestyen cc: FreeBSD hackers mailinglist From: David Kelly Subject: Re: A Question about FreeBSD and Linux(programming) In-reply-to: Message from Zoltan Sebestyen of "Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:43:58 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:44:46 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zoltan Sebestyen writes: > Hi, > > I have to write an application on Linux that deals with the serial port. > I have installed a Redhat besides the FreeBSD(I didn't erase FBSD it'll > stay there until the end of the world), but finally gave up to use it. > Does anyone(for example Doug White ;-) know if the termio functions (like > tcgetattr tcsetattr tcflush tcdrain) behave on FBSD like on Linux? I don't see a specific mention of FreeBSD or Linux in Greg Lehey's book, "Porting Unix Software" but chapter 15, "Terminal Drivers", pages 269 thru 306 should prove interesting reading. Got my copy from http://www.bookpool.com, a little over $20. Can't hardly believe my note inside the cover, purchased 5/96. Seems like yesterday. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 19:27:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07891 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07835 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:26:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01566; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:56:44 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA08269; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:56:44 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980313135643.01194@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:56:43 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: David Kelly , Zoltan Sebestyen Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailinglist Subject: Re: A Question about FreeBSD and Linux(programming) References: <199803130244.UAA02512@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803130244.UAA02512@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Thu, Mar 12, 1998 at 08:44:46PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 March 1998 at 20:44:46 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Zoltan Sebestyen writes: >> Hi, >> >> I have to write an application on Linux that deals with the serial port. >> I have installed a Redhat besides the FreeBSD(I didn't erase FBSD it'll >> stay there until the end of the world), but finally gave up to use it. >> Does anyone(for example Doug White ;-) know if the termio functions (like >> tcgetattr tcsetattr tcflush tcdrain) behave on FBSD like on Linux? These should be termios (POSIX.1), not termio (System V). I'm pretty sure that Linux adheres to them. You may find minor differences in the handling of the control characters and the mapping of the timeout and delay parameters to the control characters. > I don't see a specific mention of FreeBSD or Linux in Greg Lehey's book, > "Porting Unix Software" but chapter 15, "Terminal Drivers", pages 269 > thru 306 should prove interesting reading. FreeBSD was in its infancy when I wrote that book. It's mentioned in passing along with the other BSD derivatives on page 7. Linux is mentioned in a number of places where it diverges from UNIX. FreeBSD doesn't really need much mention in this book: the book mainly compares the BSD and System V approaches, and apart from the fact that BSD has since acquired some System Visms (such as poll () and the Three Ugly Sisters), you can assume that FreeBSD is the protoypical BSD described in the book. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 12 20:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18131 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18084 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mercury.mcs.net) Received: from Mercury.mcs.net (karl@Mercury.mcs.net [192.160.127.80]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA01277 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:31:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mercury.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id WAA15375; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:31:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980312223102.50360@mcs.net> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:31:02 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Odd problem we're seeing here Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm seeing an interesting problem here. Assuming two writers to an NFS file from the SAME machine. Writer #1 has opened the file O_RDWR and intends to do a set of random operations on it. Writer #2 has opened the file O_WRONLY|O_APPEND and intends only to add to the end of the file. Writer #1 gets an flock on the file, and does things to the file. He might even do an ftruncate at some point to roll back the contents. Writer #2, in the meantime, attempts to get an flock on the file and (correctly) blocks, waiting for Writer #1 to finish. Writer #1 gets done, and releases his lock. Writer #2 *SOMETIMES DOES NOT WRITE TO THE CORRECT (END OF FILE) PLACE*. This is difficult to reproduce, but it can be done. It appears that the O_APPEND isn't causing the implied lseek(....., 0, SEEK_END) to be done before each write in this situation. I'm trying to nail this one down. The latest patches to the NFS code appear to make this happen more often than it did before, but it did occasionally happen even before the patches. This NEVER happens on locally mounted files, but occasionally happens on NFS mounted files. Yes, I know flock is local to the machine it is executed on. That's ok; the two processes ARE running on the same machine. -CURRENT from a couple of days ago.... -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 02:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:30:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.x-atom.ru (root@ns.X-Atom.ru [145.249.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02813 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sanli@ai.ru) Received: from atom.x-atom.ru (root@atom.X-Atom.ru [145.249.16.1]) by ns.x-atom.ru (8.8.5-ATOM/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04311 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:33:31 GMT Received: from vectra.fps.ru (dialup62.dialup.X-Atom.ru [145.249.19.62]) by atom.x-atom.ru (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA03893 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:25:23 GMT From: sanli@atom.x-atom.ru Message-ID: <3509093F.737E@ai.ru> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:23:59 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 02:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02856 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.x-atom.ru (root@ns.X-Atom.ru [145.249.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02834; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sanli@ai.ru) Received: from atom.x-atom.ru (root@atom.X-Atom.ru [145.249.16.1]) by ns.x-atom.ru (8.8.5-ATOM/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04315; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:33:36 GMT Received: from vectra.fps.ru (dialup62.dialup.X-Atom.ru [145.249.19.62]) by atom.x-atom.ru (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA03898; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:25:28 GMT From: sanli@atom.x-atom.ru Message-ID: <35090945.28DB@ai.ru> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:24:05 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Where is Brian Litzinger ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, Does anybody know how to connect to Brian Litzinger (in FreeBSD Mailing-lists "freebsd-questions" and "freebsd-hackers" his e-mail was brian@mediacity.com) I tried to send him e-mail but MAILER-DAEMON@mail001.mediacity.com wrote "Sorry, no mailbox here by that name" Thanks in advance! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 02:33:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03578 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 02:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA04804 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:32:28 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199803131032.MAA04804@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: 2.2.5 PANIC when out of mbufs To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:31:13 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ... It seems that there is something a-foot in uipc_mbuf.c We have an application program that basically does a relay-ing function at the user level. I have the following test setup PII-266/64MB <-100 Mbit-> P166/128MB <-100 Mbit-> PII-266/64MB connected with X-over cat 5 cables. I am using ttcp on the one PII to connect to the "relay" on the P166 that reconnects me to a small get-and-dump server on the other PII. Between the PII's I can start 400 of these sessions. I try to start 300 sessions through the relay by starting them 1 at a time with a 1sec delay between them, each traqnsferring about 26M of data. The MBUF clusters start to increase on the P166 to about 2942 mbufs in use 2703/2714 mbuf clusters in use ( the P166 kernel has 128 max users = (512 + 128 * 16) = 2560 mbuf clusters according to param.c ) The kernel panics with the following on screen message Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x18 fault code = supervisor write, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0122d1d stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffe94 frame pointer = 0x10:0xefbffeb8 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 998 (tcpr) interrupt mask = panic: page fault I have recreated this about 8 time with the ip always being 0xf0122d1d nm /kernel | sort ---- cut ------ f0122528 T _solisten f01225d4 T _sofree f01226a0 T _soclose f01227c0 T _soabort f01227e8 T _soaccept f0122850 T _soconnect f01228d8 T _soconnect2 f0122924 T _sodisconnect f0122990 T _sosend <------ in here f012304c T _soreceive f01239c8 T _soshutdown f0123a04 T _sorflush f0123ad0 T _sosetopt f0123d98 T _sogetopt ----- cur ------ Hi then had a look at the files being used, and saw the following gdb -k kernel /a/tmp/vmcore.2 (kgdb) bt #0 0xf010e7d3 in boot () #1 0xf010ea92 in panic () #2 0xf0192fb6 in trap_fatal () #3 0xf0192aa4 in trap_pfault () #4 0xf019277f in trap () #5 0xf0122d1d in sosend (so=0xf13d4500, addr=0x0, uio=0xefbffef4, top=0x0, control=0x0, flags=0) at ../../kern/uipc_socket.c:427 #6 0xf0125a81 in sendit () #7 0xf0125b60 in sendto () #8 0xf019324f in syscall () #9 0x200c8bd1 in ?? () #10 0xc55e in ?? () #11 0xcbf0 in ?? () #12 0x2419 in ?? () #13 0x2374 in ?? () #14 0x1095 in ?? () (kgdb) #5 0xf0122d1d in sosend (so=0xf13d4500, addr=0x0, uio=0xefbffef4, top=0x0, control=0x0, flags=0) at ../../kern/uipc_socket.c:427 427 mlen = MHLEN; (kgdb) li 422 if (flags & MSG_EOR) 423 top->m_flags |= M_EOR; 424 } else do { 425 if (top == 0) { 426 MGETHDR(m, M_WAIT, MT_DATA); 427 mlen = MHLEN; 428 m->m_pkthdr.len = 0; 429 m->m_pkthdr.rcvif = (struct ifnet *)0; 430 } else { 431 MGET(m, M_WAIT, MT_DATA); (kgdb) p m $1 = (struct mbuf *) 0x0 (kgdb) I then had a look in sys/sys/mbuf.h and saw the following #define MGETHDR(m, how, type) { \ int _ms = splimp(); \ if (mmbfree == 0) \ (void)m_mballoc(1, (how)); \ if (((m) = mmbfree) != 0) { \ mmbfree = (m)->m_next; \ mbstat.m_mtypes[MT_FREE]--; \ (m)->m_type = (type); \ mbstat.m_mtypes[type]++; \ (m)->m_next = (struct mbuf *)NULL; \ (m)->m_nextpkt = (struct mbuf *)NULL; \ (m)->m_data = (m)->m_pktdat; \ (m)->m_flags = M_PKTHDR; \ splx(_ms); \ } else { \ splx(_ms); \ (m) = m_retryhdr((how), (type)); \ } \ } say it goes to the else because no mbufs are available, then it will call m_retryhdr in uipc_mbuf.c struct mbuf * m_retryhdr(i, t) int i, t; { register struct mbuf *m; m_reclaim(); #define m_retryhdr(i, t) (struct mbuf *)0 MGETHDR(m, i, t); #undef m_retryhdr if (m != NULL) mbstat.m_wait++; else mbstat.m_drops++; return (m); } say the m_reclaim doesn't free anything because everything is in use .. Then it will make m_retryhdr(i, t) null and recall MGETHDR(m, i, t) who still can't allocate anything and then does (m) = m_retryhdr((how), (type)); which has now been defined as 0x0 ... MGETHDR (with M_WAIT) defined now happily returns m = 0x0 and no one checks for that. It then causes the kernel to panic. :) would it not have been easier to call panic from withing the else in m_retryhdr :) instead of waiting for the mbuf to be referenced :) Am I missing anything obvious here ??? Thanx Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 03:08:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06702 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06697 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21385; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:04:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803131104.DAA21385@implode.root.com> To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 PANIC when out of mbufs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 13 Mar 1998 12:31:13 +0200." <199803131032.MAA04804@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:04:08 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >(m) = m_retryhdr((how), (type)); which has now been defined as 0x0 ... >MGETHDR (with M_WAIT) defined now happily returns m = 0x0 and no >one checks for that. > >It then causes the kernel to panic. > >:) would it not have been easier to call panic from withing the else >in m_retryhdr :) instead of waiting for the mbuf to be referenced :) > >Am I missing anything obvious here ??? It's a problem that has been known about for a couple of years. It's one possible effect of running out of mbuf clusters - there are others. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 04:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA15694 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA15683; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA14841; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:52:33 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803131052.LAA14841@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: small sound (pcm) patches for 2.2.6! To: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:52:33 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here are a few patches to my audio driver (from a recently cvsupped 2.2.6-BETA). The first two were already submitted some time ago but probably were applied to the wrong line. The last one fixes a problem that has been there for ages. I consider these important for 2.2.6 -- so please Jordan apply them. cheers luigi diff -ubwr /sys/i386/isa/snd/dmabuf.c snd/dmabuf.c --- /sys/i386/isa/snd/dmabuf.c Tue Mar 10 14:05:00 1998 +++ snd/dmabuf.c Sat Feb 28 13:08:32 1998 @@ -270,10 +270,10 @@ else timeout = 1 ; ret = tsleep( (caddr_t)b, PRIBIO|PCATCH, "dspwr", timeout); - if (ret == EINTR || ret == ERESTART) + if (ret == EINTR) d->flags |= SND_F_ABORTING ; splx(s); - if (ret == EINTR) + if (ret == EINTR || ret == ERESTART) break ; continue; } @@ -553,10 +553,10 @@ else timeout = 1; /* maybe data will be ready earlier */ ret = tsleep( (caddr_t)b, PRIBIO | PCATCH , "dsprd", timeout ) ; - if (ret == EINTR || ret == ERESTART) + if (ret == EINTR) d->flags |= SND_F_ABORTING ; splx(s); - if (ret == EINTR) + if (ret == EINTR || ret == ERESTART) break ; continue; } @@ -593,7 +593,7 @@ s = spltty(); /* no interrupts here ... */ d->flags &= ~SND_F_READING ; if (d->flags & SND_F_ABORTING) { - d->flags |= ~SND_F_ABORTING; + d->flags &= ~SND_F_ABORTING; /* XXX */ splx(s); dsp_rdabort(d, 1 /* restart */); /* XXX return EINTR ? */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 06:22:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28273 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:22:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28265 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:22:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA01176 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:22:34 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id IAA11827; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:22:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980313082234.32450@mcs.net> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:22:34 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: System hang (!) with -CURRENT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have seen an odd problem twice this morning. -CURRENT, current as of last night :-) dmesg is: Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #1: Fri Mar 13 06:56:09 CST 1998 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_WEB Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz cost 3493 ns Timecounter "TSC" frequency 199432942 Hz cost 288 ns CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 127594496 (124604K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 de0: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:e0:29:09:9b:05 de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 11 on pci0.11.0 de1: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de1: address 00:e0:29:09:96:da ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 15 on pci0.12.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 ahc0: target 0 Tagged Queuing Device sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 2170MB (4445380 512 byte sectors) sd0: with 5899 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 150 sectors/track vga0: rev 0x00 on pci0.14.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 ed1 not found at 0x300 sio0 not found at 0x3f8 sio1 not found at 0x2f8 lpt0 not found lpt1 not found fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 aha0 not found at 0x330 aic0 not found at 0x340 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers changing root device to sd0s2a WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. de0: enabling 10baseT port de1: enabling 10baseT port This machine is one five running the same kernel and same software base (in a fault-resistant environment). It has been running with a kernel circa March 11th without incident for more than two days. Twice now in the last three hours it has locked up hard. Keyboard input is not accepted (not even the NUM LOCK!) so dropping to DDB to find out where it is hanging up is impossible. Nothing else has changed at all. I suspect an external "packet of death". One of our other systems was hit with a sustained LAND attack attempt (which failed to kill it) minutes before the first lockup incident on this system. The commit logs say that the LAND attack vulnerability in -CURRENT was fixed in January. I don't know... this particular sequence of events, one out of five machines hit, and a different one on the same network hit (and logged) minutes before this one locks up? I'm suspicious. Is there anything outstanding in this area against -CURRENT? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 09:14:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28799 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:14:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28794; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA20406; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:23:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980313121948.01107100@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:19:49 -0500 To: sanli@atom.x-atom.ru, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG From: dennis Subject: Re: Where is Brian Litzinger ? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:24 PM 3/13/98 +0300, sanli@atom.x-atom.ru wrote: >Sorry, > >Does anybody know how to connect to Brian Litzinger (in FreeBSD >Mailing-lists "freebsd-questions" and "freebsd-hackers" his e-mail was >brian@mediacity.com) > >I tried to send him e-mail but MAILER-DAEMON@mail001.mediacity.com >wrote "Sorry, no mailbox here by that name" Hes quite the vagabond. Last time I heard from him he was in Costa Rica doing an install of FreeBSD. try brian@mpress.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 10:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08921 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:00:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soran.pacific.net.sg (soran.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08743 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:59:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ngps@post1.com) Received: from pop2.pacific.net.sg (pop2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.86]) by soran.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id BAA00444 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:56:12 +0800 (SGT) Received: from madcap.dyn.ml.org (dyn114ppp104.pacific.net.sg [210.24.114.104]) by pop2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id BAA05640 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:59:49 +0800 (SGT) Received: (qmail 223 invoked by uid 100); 13 Mar 1998 17:56:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19980314015627.36946@dyn.ml.org> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:56:27 +0800 From: Ng Pheng Siong To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ngps@post1.com Subject: 2.2.5 breaks serialmail? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76e Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've been running 2.2.2 as a PPP dial-up machine. My mail setup is qmail + serialmail + fetchmail + procmail, and I've had no problem at all since installation about 9 months ago. I've just added a new harddisk, and have installed 2.2.5 on it. I'm now multi-booting among 2.2.2, 2.2.5 and other OS'es. On 2.2.5, qmail + fetchmail + procmail still work, and I have no problem popping mail from my ISP. But I can't send mail at all, coz serialmail doesn't work now. I've used serialmail 0.51, 0.7x, run serialmail from the 2.2.2 partition. Re-installed qmail, even. No joy. ;( 2.2.2 continues to work. This mail is sent from 2.2.2. I've ktraced serialmail on 2.2.5: a vital unlink (of the message file in the mail queue) did not happen. Any clues? I'm not subscribed, please cc replies to me. TIA. Cheers. BTW, 2.2.5 appears a little sluggish compared to 2.2.2. (And ppp executable by root only is no fun.) -- Ng Pheng Siong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 11:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA28453 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11997 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:47:19 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA02530; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:59:05 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803131859.TAA02530@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: FYI: for people who want Solaris/x86... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199803130053.SAA01242@unix.tfs.net> from Jim Bryant at "Mar 12, 98 06:53:52 pm" To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:59:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Jim Bryant wrote... > In reply: > > Check out http://www.sun.com/solaris/tradein.html if you want/need > > Solaris/x86. Looks like you could tradein an old FreeBSD CDROM too. > > > > [no, I don't intend to run Solaris, just thought it might be useful to > > someone] > > > > WIlko > > 2.6 Desktop - $495 [includes 2-yr subs], no development tools... > 2.6 Server - $2895 [includes 2-yr subs], no development tools... About $475 too high for my taste ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 12:04:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01337 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01315 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdhack@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id WAA10724 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:06:51 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199803132006.WAA10724@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <199802260213.SAA16197@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Feb 25, 98 06:13:53 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 22:06:50 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yaiks, i dont like being over 1200 messages behind on my mailing lists... > >The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > The key word in the above is "new". The SMC9432TX uses the SMC83c170 > chip, NOT the DEC chip. We have preliminary support for it in the 'tx' another question... some other manufacturers, like accton (opinions about this firm greatly appreciated) uses some 21140 chips still, in both standard 10/100 and then in this weird 10base2/10baset/100basetx card, which all work, at least used to, with freebsd. the chip in those cards used to be 21140-AE, now it seems the last card i got is 21140-AF, any difference? i mean major? i think i started to have some problems with those 21140-AE cards just recently. (my -currents are nowadays about a month old) i'm planning in testing the 21140-AF card this weekend with up-to-date current. > >Is there a difference between the PRO/100B and PRO/100+? > The Pro/100+ uses the 82558 chip, which has an integrated PHY. It is > software compatible and performs identically to the Pro/100B. is this pro/100+ using the same chip that i found from this ANOTHER accton cheetah card? or is it pro/100B alike ship? or complitely different one? it's intel made, and reads: S82557 L7064277 SL24Z i dunno how much cheaper this one is, it's rather irrelevant, i only am interested in seeing how it performs... but it is cheaper. [two hours of hitting my head to different walls] uh, i hate to answer my own questions... it appears to introduce itself as: fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 > -DG mickey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 12:17:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03540 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:17:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA22414; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:17:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id OAA27118; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:17:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980313141711.30263@mcs.net> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:17:11 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: mika ruohotie Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802260213.SAA16197@implode.root.com> <199803132006.WAA10724@shadows.aeon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803132006.WAA10724@shadows.aeon.net>; from mika ruohotie on Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 10:06:50PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 10:06:50PM +0200, mika ruohotie wrote: > yaiks, i dont like being over 1200 messages behind on my mailing lists... > > > >The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > > The key word in the above is "new". The SMC9432TX uses the SMC83c170 > > chip, NOT the DEC chip. We have preliminary support for it in the 'tx' Well, I got a bunch of INTEL PRO/100+s in..... Preliminary results are, well, impressive. Autonegotiation (including FDX) actually works. Its fast. 100BaseTX/FDX into an Intel 510T switch is even more impressive :-) They also don't appear to be as "picky" about cables. The SMC 10/100 cards we have used for a long time would piss and moan about a cable once in a while (usually manifesting itself as complaints about mangled packets and bad CRCs). Interestingly enough the Pro100+ doesn't seem to mind the same cables (!) at all. I don't know what that's about, other than perhaps better noise margins on the physical layer components. > uh, i hate to answer my own questions... it appears to introduce > itself as: > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 Note that the Pro/100+ *AS WELL AS* the newer SMC cards have serious trouble with TYN EISA/PCI motherboards when run in 100BaseT mode. It appears that the motherboard is unable to keep up *on receive* with the data stream; the result is a lot of input errors and horrible performance. Downshifting those to 10Mbps fixes that (but obviously negates the point of a fast ethernet card). The same problem does *NOT* show up on the Natoma motherboards. No data on the LX motherboards yet - I'm testing some of those next week. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 12:47:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:47:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08389 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:47:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id UAA18277; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:46:04 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:38:26 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <350477DA.67AF@njcc.com> References: <199803090845.JAA02668@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> <199803092021.KAA16014@rocksalt.mui.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:37:43 +0000 To: khansen@njcc.com, ken@mui.net From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:14 pm +0000 9/3/98, Ken Hansen wrote: >Die thread, DIE! > >Sorry, I just can't take it any more... > >Ken >khansen@njcc.com Sorry, but this thread runs off 48vdc with two stonking great diesels in a shed out back :-) :-) -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 13:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p102.tfs.net [139.146.210.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15833 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA29003; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:18:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199803132118.PAA29003@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "Mar 13, 98 08:37:43 pm" To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:18:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #5: Sun Mar 8 12:29:10 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > At 11:14 pm +0000 9/3/98, Ken Hansen wrote: > >Die thread, DIE! > > > >Sorry, I just can't take it any more... > > > > Sorry, but this thread runs off 48vdc with two stonking great diesels in a > shed out back :-) :-) > Heck we have three stonking great diesels, indoors in a nuclear hardened bunker, and a battery room that will last longer than those stinking bunny commercials... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 13:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:31:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exrhub.exr.com (exrhub.exr.com [207.86.92.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18800 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 13:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aj@gims.net) From: aj@gims.net Received: from gims.net (galiano [204.7.219.85]) by exrhub.exr.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA18664 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:29:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3509A4FB.CE77F165@gims.net> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:28:28 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How do I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How do I change the root directory of my ftp daemon. It is currently pointing to /var/ftp and I want it to point to /home/ftp. I changed the /etc/passwd and the /etc/master.passwd file but that doesn't seem to be it. What file is controling it? anyone? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 14:05:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25435 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sparks.net (exim@aug-modem13.ctel.net [208.221.75.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25365 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 0yDcSw-0000EV-00; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:58:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:58:10 -0500 (EST) From: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <19980313141711.30263@mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 10:06:50PM +0200, mika ruohotie wrote: > > yaiks, i dont like being over 1200 messages behind on my mailing lists... > > > > > >The SMC cards *ARE* DEC chipsets. > > > The key word in the above is "new". The SMC9432TX uses the SMC83c170 > > > chip, NOT the DEC chip. We have preliminary support for it in the 'tx' > > Well, I got a bunch of INTEL PRO/100+s in..... > > Preliminary results are, well, impressive. > > Autonegotiation (including FDX) actually works. > Its fast. > 100BaseTX/FDX into an Intel 510T switch is even more impressive :-) While we're on the subject of fast ethernet cards, does anyone know of any muli-port fast ethernet cards? My experience with Znyx 348's (dual port) was that they'd "steal" IRQ's from the neighboring PCI slots, interfering with a (for example) WANic (SDL Riscomm sync serial board) board the next slot over. What I'd love to see is a 100+ dash 4 which used a single a single IRQ for all four ports:) Thanks, David Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 14:24:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28503 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA08038; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:22:32 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: david@sparks.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 david@sparks.net wrote: > While we're on the subject of fast ethernet cards, does anyone know of any > muli-port fast ethernet cards? Adaptec has just released two and four port cards that are based on some sort of DEC chip. I'd bet they're pretty similar to the Znyx ones. > My experience with Znyx 348's (dual port) was that they'd "steal" IRQ's > from the neighboring PCI slots, interfering with a (for example) WANic > (SDL Riscomm sync serial board) board the next slot over. > ... > What I'd love to see is a 100+ dash 4 which used a single a single IRQ for > all four ports:) I seem to recall that the two-port ones were both on the main bus, but the four-port ones had four chips behind a PCI-PCI bridge, which fixed the interrupt problem. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 15:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03899 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marge.infinity.com (pm2-11-10.tor.idirect.com [207.136.127.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03020; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Chris34343@mci.net) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Chris34343@mci.net Message-Id: <199803132258.OAA03020@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Hi, How are you? To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG

Please accept my apology if this was sent to you in error! Dear Friend, The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it. My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business, Over the past year, I incurred many unforseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and stuggling business. I truly believe it was wrong for me to be in debt like this. AT THE MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share my experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER...FINANCIALLY!!! In mid December, I received this program via email. Six months prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they worked or not. One claimed I'd make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it. But like i was saying, in December of "92" I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANKS GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me in further debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. After determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT". Initially I sent out 10,000 emails. It only cost me about $15.00 for my time on-line. The great thing about email is that I didn't need any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfill my orders. I am telling you like it is, i hope it doesn't turn you off, but i promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me! In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. By January 13th, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. When you read the GUARANTEE in the program, you will see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By January 30th, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. If you go back to the GUARANTEE, "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF NOT SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY. RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 19th, of my emailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read the attached program. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! Remember, it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. It doesn't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money! REPORT #2 explains this. Always follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders of REPORT #1 and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry, It really is a great oppotunity with little cost or risk to you. if you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID! Sincerely, Christopher Erickson P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME! "THREW IT AWAY" "I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if i shouldn't have given it a try. of course, I had no idea who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program. Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I made $41,000 on the first try." Dawn W., Evensville, IN "NO FREE LUNCH" "My late fater always told me, 'remember, Alan there is no free lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it.' Though trial and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I finally figured it out. The program works very well, I just had to find the right target group of people to email to. So far this year, I have made over $63,000 using the program. I know my dad would have been very proud of me" Alan B., Philadelphia, PA A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over the enclosed programs and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate...because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices which market this and several other programs here in the U.S. and overseas. By the spring, we wish to market the "Internet" by a partnership with AMERICA ONLINE. Follow this program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to email a copy of this exciting program to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000... and your name will be on every one of them! Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make alot of money! Definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$ Let's say you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a .5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of total of 20,000. Out of those .5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The .5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The .5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you CASH!!!! Your total income in this example is $50.00 + $500.00 + $5,000.00 + $50,000.00 for a total of $55,550.00!!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2,000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!! REPORT #3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY, It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave your house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instuctions, and your dream will come true. This multi-level email order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. Email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard business school, and both Stanford research and the Wall street journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold thoughout Multi-Level methods by the mid 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionares in the U.S., 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover statistics show 45 people become millionares everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. INSTRUCTIONS We at Erris Mail Order Marketing Business, have a method of raising capital that REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am really sure that you could use $50,000 to $125,000 in the next 20 to 90 days. Before you say "Bull", please read the program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what we do: As with all multi-level business, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S.A. allows you to recruit new multi- level business partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME AND ARE FILLED THROUGH THE MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere. Step (1) Order all 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER. Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four names listed on the next page. For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF- ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. International orders should also include $1 extra postage. Be sure to include your internet address incase of any problems.It is essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested to the person you are ordering from. You will need ALL FOUR REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders. Step (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and this party is in no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY! DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!! Step (3) Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it as a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever email program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk emailing and acquiring email lists. You will also receive the address to a website to assist you. Any and all programs needed will be available free of charge. Including bulk mailers and email collectors. Step (4) Email a copy of the entire program (all of this is very important) to everyone whose addresses you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And they love me now, more than ever. Then email to anyone and everyone whose address you collect with the programs available to you at the above mentioned site. Use your imagination! REQUIRED REPORTS ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND A SELF ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE, INTERNET ADDRESS AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT NAME AND NUMBER __________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: D.M.1 2133 Jane St. #5 Box#154 Downsview, Ontario Canada M3M-1A2 __________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: R.P. Marketing 1051 Stuyvesant Ave. Suite 193 Union, New Jersey 07083 __________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES OF BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Twin Marketing P.O. Box 673 Harbor City, California 90710-0673 __________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: M.O.C. Marketing P.O. Box 146 Gaithersburg, Maryland 20884-0146 __________________________________________________ CONCLUSION I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back. However very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and mail. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, No product what so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but it will be usefull to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copt center for a cost of about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! "IT WAS TRULY AMAZING" "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this program. But conservative as I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was no way that I could not get enough orders to at least get my money back. BOY was I ever surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed with orders! I will make more money this year than any ten years of my life before." Mary Riceland, Lansing, MI TIPS FOR SUCCESS Send for you four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with U.S. Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED." IMPORTANT: WHEN SENDING A SELF ADDRESSED, STAMPED EVELOPE, IF MAILING TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, PURCHASE AN I.R.C (INTERNATIONAL RESPONSE COUPON). DO NOT SEND POSTAGE FROM YOUR COUNTRY OR THE PERSON FROM THE OTHER COUNTRY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THAT POSTAGE. WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box (preffered) 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and all the others all move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list. 4. Obtain as many email addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3. 5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill orders. 7. Copy the 4 REPORTS so you are able to send them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE! 8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible. YOUR GUARANTEE The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: You must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within 2 weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. One of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, everytime your name is moved down the list you are infront of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you, IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY IT IS!!! REMEMBER: "HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING." "INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR SEARCH FOR IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE."

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 15:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13517 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05061; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199803132354.PAA05061@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: cjs@portal.ca, david@sparks.net Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Curt Sampson writes: > > On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 david@sparks.net wrote: > > > My experience with Znyx 348's (dual port) was that they'd "steal" IRQ's > > from the neighboring PCI slots, interfering with a (for example) WANic > > (SDL Riscomm sync serial board) board the next slot over. > > ... > > What I'd love to see is a 100+ dash 4 which used a single a single IRQ for > > all four ports:) > > I seem to recall that the two-port ones were both on the main bus, > but the four-port ones had four chips behind a PCI-PCI bridge, > which fixed the interrupt problem. I'm not sure I follow this. I use the quad Znyx cards happily; they are behind a PCI-PCI bridge, but they still get separate IRQ's for each interface (see dmesg output from one such machine below). I don't think this matters, as interrupt sharing is supported by the PCI code (i.e., multiple, unrelated PCI devices can share a single IRQ). Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 3 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 de0 rev 18 int a irq 9 on pci0:9 de0: SMC 9332DST 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 de0: address 00:00:c0:1b:3c:c7 de0: enabling 10baseT port ncr0 rev 18 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "IBM DORS-32160 WA6A" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 2063MB (4226725 512 byte sectors) de1 rev 17 int a irq 10 on pci0:11 de1: SMC 9332DST 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.1 de1: address 00:00:c0:82:64:9e de1: enabling 10baseT port chip3 rev 0 on pci0:12:0 Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: de2 rev 36 int a irq 11 on pci1:4 de2: ZNYX ZX314 21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.4 de2: address 00:c0:95:f0:48:b4 de2: enabling 10baseT port de3 rev 36 int a irq 10 on pci1:5 de3: ZNYX ZX314 21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.4 de3: address 00:c0:95:f0:48:b5 de3: enabling 10baseT port de4 rev 36 int a irq 12 on pci1:6 de4: ZNYX ZX314 21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.4 de4: address 00:c0:95:f0:48:b6 de4: enabling 10baseT port de5 rev 36 int a irq 9 on pci1:7 de5: ZNYX ZX314 21040 [10Mb/s] pass 2.4 de5: address 00:c0:95:f0:48:b7 de5: enabling 10baseT port To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 19:36:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23256 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:36:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23185 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:36:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29649; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:29:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803140329.TAA29649@implode.root.com> To: Karl Denninger cc: mika ruohotie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:17:11 CST." <19980313141711.30263@mcs.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:29:24 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Note that the Pro/100+ *AS WELL AS* the newer SMC cards have serious trouble >with TYN EISA/PCI motherboards when run in 100BaseT mode. It appears that >the motherboard is unable to keep up *on receive* with the data stream; >the result is a lot of input errors and horrible performance. Downshifting >those to 10Mbps fixes that (but obviously negates the point of a fast >ethernet card). The same problem does *NOT* show up on the Natoma >motherboards. Sounds like an older Orion chipset with the PCI write buffer bug. Maximum throughput will be about 4.2MB/sec on those - far less than the 10MB/sec that is required for fast ethernet. The Orion 'C' stepping and Natoma do not have this problem. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 20:26:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05728 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:26:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA05723 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yDiEq-0003mS-00; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:08:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:07:58 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: aj@gims.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I In-Reply-To: <3509A4FB.CE77F165@gims.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 aj@gims.net wrote: > How do I change the root directory of my ftp daemon. It is currently > pointing to > /var/ftp and I want it to point to /home/ftp. I changed the > /etc/passwd and the /etc/master.passwd file but that doesn't seem to be > it. What file is controling it? First of all, /etc/passwd is purely decorative. Second of all, always use vipw when changing /etc/master.passwd Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 13 21:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16474 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:46:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15034 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:07:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "crab.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd015026; Fri Mar 13 16:07:44 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id QAA24857 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:05:18 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199803140005.QAA24857@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: from "david@sparks.net" at "Mar 13, 98 04:58:10 pm" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:05:18 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG david@sparks.net writes: | While we're on the subject of fast ethernet cards, does anyone know of any | muli-port fast ethernet cards? | | My experience with Znyx 348's (dual port) was that they'd "steal" IRQ's | from the neighboring PCI slots, interfering with a (for example) WANic | (SDL Riscomm sync serial board) board the next slot over. | | What I'd love to see is a 100+ dash 4 which used a single a single IRQ for | all four ports:) Well, we've been using 3 Adaptec Quad 10/100 in a system and before that we have 2 systems with 3 Znyx Quad cards. The only problem I've had is with BIOS's that can't deal with mapping all those interrupts with reserved ISA interrupts (ie. without the ISA cards it is fine with the ISA card the BIOS does even try to boot the machine). The other catch is that ATX motherboards are better since these cards are long and the CPU gets in the way on some AT motherboards. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 00:58:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06159 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:58:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06141 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:58:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08404; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:58:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd008386; Sat Mar 14 01:58:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA17978; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 01:58:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803140858.BAA17978@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:58:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980312223102.50360@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Mar 12, 98 10:31:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm seeing an interesting problem here. No you're not. You are seeng a problem I already knew about, and provided a patch for, but the patch was not checked in by anyone (no, not the NFS locking patch; that should be checked in, too, though). The problem is in the lease code, and has been exaggerated by recent changes that cause the paging path to be invoked for writes, as well. Leases are the same thing as opportunistic locks, and... "Opportunity only locks once". 8-) 8-). > Assuming two writers to an NFS file from the SAME machine. > > Writer #1 has opened the file O_RDWR and intends to do a set of random > operations on it. > > Writer #2 has opened the file O_WRONLY|O_APPEND and intends only to add > to the end of the file. > > Writer #1 gets an flock on the file, and does things to the file. He > might even do an ftruncate at some point to roll back the contents. > > Writer #2, in the meantime, attempts to get an flock on the file and > (correctly) blocks, waiting for Writer #1 to finish. > > Writer #1 gets done, and releases his lock. > > Writer #2 *SOMETIMES DOES NOT WRITE TO THE CORRECT (END OF FILE) PLACE*. > > This is difficult to reproduce, but it can be done. It appears that the > O_APPEND isn't causing the implied lseek(....., 0, SEEK_END) to be done > before each write in this situation. This behaviour is a result of a race condition. When you open a file, you are saying "Give me the index into my open file table of the struct file * whose f_data points to the struct vnode for the file I am opening, and whose f_offset is set to the end of the file *at the time the write is issued*" Now what does O_APPEND mean? "When you can vn_open on the nameidata pointer, when you call the VOP_OPEN, pass the FAPPEND bit in the fmode argument, where all the FS's will (incorrectly) compare it to IO_APPEND, which will work because FAPPEND is defined as IO_APPEND in fcntl.h" When nfs_write() is called (in /sys/nfs/nfs_bio.c), if the ioflag contains IO_APPEND, then a VOP_GETATTR is issued on the vp, and the uio->uio_offset is set to the value of n_size, which came from the cache. The cache value is set from va_size from a proxied VOP_GETATTR to the remote system, but *ONLY* if the lease has expired on its own, or has explicitly been expired. What you are seeing is the result of n_attrstamp not being updated when it should be. In fact, you are seeing a race between the flock( fd, LOCK_UN), and the atime/mtime updates as a result of the operations by write #1. And if you trace down this race window, you will see that what is happening is that your write call is not calling VOP_LEASE. You can get the patch for the files: /sys/kern/kern_ktrace.c /sys/kern/link_aout.c /src/sys/kern/tty_tty.c /sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c From: http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.LEASE Note: I am not terribly happy about this code. I believe VOP_LEASE should be called with the vp locked, but I don't do this in two vn_rdwr cases because of the indeterminate vp lock state. Of course, the existing code blows this all to hell (SMP problems with NFS, anyone?). The only way to really fix this reasonable would be to get rid of vn_rdwr, and replace it with vn_read or vn_write, as appropriate to the situation. Luckily this is really only a problem for the ktrace and other unlikely code (it used to be a problem for the image activator, too, until John fixed it after I complained about it). Pretty clearly vn_rdwr was a hack to avoid locking and unlocking the vp over every call (cough, cough, lazy thinking, cough, cough). > I'm trying to nail this one down. The latest patches to the NFS code appear > to make this happen more often than it did before, but it did occasionally > happen even before the patches. Writes to mapped NFS pages need to trigger the lease revocation code as well. This basically means that there needs to be a VOP_LEASE call for each and every VOP_PUTPAGES in to NFS. This should probably go in the vnode pager code before VOP_PUTPAGES is called. Before the recent changes, paging *to* an NFS FS was a hopeless case. Now, it can cause problems (though probably not this one; I don't believe a putpages can be used to extend a file). The generic routine should be used in case we ever want to export an opportunity locking mechanism with full coherency to user space programs. Like SAMBA. But only if we want O_APPEND to work for SMB and NFS clients accessing the same file (and what idiot would want a consistently functional system? Where's the adventure? 8-)). > This NEVER happens on locally mounted files, but occasionally happens > on NFS mounted files. Yes, well, it's a real coding error in the VFS client code; what do you expect? ;-). Like I said, though, doing the patches won't fix all the races with putpages (consider a record being written, and making the decision of whether or not to read before write, and a record in an adjacent page was just touched), and it won't work well under SMP unless vn_rdwr dies (but then the existing code can't work well under SMP, since most of the other vn_rdwr references have the same bug). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 02:48:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA17993 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17986 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04242 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:46:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803141046.CAA04242@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bogus printf in ffs_vfsops.c? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:46:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While tracking another problem, I ran across this interesting 'feature': If you attempt to mount an unclean filesystem, the error message that the kernel prints: WARNING: R/W mount of %s denied. Filesystem is not clean - run fsck. prints the path on which the filesystem was *last* mounted, not where you are tring to mount it this time. Needless to say, for removable disks this can be, er, disconcerting. Should this be changed to print some more detail, eg. WARNING: R/W mount of %s on %s denied... The other case (where it prints a warning in the forced case) is more or less OK, although IMHO it should be printing the device, not the new target path... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 07:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16141 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:06:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from P2 (p2.isdn.net.il [192.115.104.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA15907; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:05:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from qt8-news@connect9.com) From: qt8-news@connect9.com Received: from connect9.com - 194.90.232.47 by isdn.net.il with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:00:14 +0200 To: qt8-news@connect9.com Subject: Hebrew/English wp & HTML generator Message-ID: <00a4e1400150e38P2@isdn.net.il> Date: 14 Mar 1998 17:00:43 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please find REMOVE instructions at the bottom. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hebrew/English word processor and HTML generator ========================================================================= QT/8 is an advanced multilingual word processor and HTML generator, operating on any MS Windows PC platform, regardless of the Windows local version. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 07:40:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20781 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id QAA17834 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:40:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta1/keltia-2.14/nospam) id KAA01825; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:17:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980314101733.A1802@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:17:33 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980313141711.30263@mcs.net> <199803140329.TAA29649@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <199803140329.TAA29649@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 07:29:24PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4121 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to David Greenman: > that is required for fast ethernet. The Orion 'C' stepping and Natoma do not How does one verify the stepping of the chipset ? Is it displayed by "-v" ? My machine at work is an HP XU (PPro/200) with an Orion chipset. I got it in Dec. 1996... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar 1 18:50:39 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 09:37:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07638 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA04916; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:37:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id LAA22692; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:37:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980314113743.62444@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 11:37:43 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here References: <19980312223102.50360@mcs.net> <199803140858.BAA17978@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803140858.BAA17978@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Mar 14, 1998 at 08:58:25AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmmm... I've looked at these patches, and have a couple of questions... You note that the vnode "should" be locked when the LEASE call is made - yet in kern_ktrace.c, you call the LEASE request *before* the lock is asserted. Is this correct, and why? Wouldn't you want to lock the object first to prevent setting up another potential race condition? Also, ktrace.c isn't a "standard" execution path, is it? link_aout.c applies to loading executables, and there it appears that I can't do any harm (or help) to the current situation by applying this. In the tty_tty.c case, you're also calling the lease before the lock. Unless I've missed something, this is the common entry point to any file I/O write request, correct. Again, isn't the order backwards here? Other than this, does anyone know why weren't they committed? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Sat, Mar 14, 1998 at 08:58:25AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'm seeing an interesting problem here. > > No you're not. You are seeng a problem I already knew about, > and provided a patch for, but the patch was not checked in by > anyone (no, not the NFS locking patch; that should be checked > in, too, though). > > The problem is in the lease code, and has been exaggerated by > recent changes that cause the paging path to be invoked for > writes, as well. Leases are the same thing as opportunistic > locks, and... "Opportunity only locks once". 8-) 8-). > > > > Assuming two writers to an NFS file from the SAME machine. > > > > Writer #1 has opened the file O_RDWR and intends to do a set of random > > operations on it. > > > > Writer #2 has opened the file O_WRONLY|O_APPEND and intends only to add > > to the end of the file. > > > > Writer #1 gets an flock on the file, and does things to the file. He > > might even do an ftruncate at some point to roll back the contents. > > > > Writer #2, in the meantime, attempts to get an flock on the file and > > (correctly) blocks, waiting for Writer #1 to finish. > > > > Writer #1 gets done, and releases his lock. > > > > Writer #2 *SOMETIMES DOES NOT WRITE TO THE CORRECT (END OF FILE) PLACE*. > > > > This is difficult to reproduce, but it can be done. It appears that the > > O_APPEND isn't causing the implied lseek(....., 0, SEEK_END) to be done > > before each write in this situation. > > This behaviour is a result of a race condition. > > When you open a file, you are saying > > "Give me the index into my open file table of the struct > file * whose f_data points to the struct vnode for the > file I am opening, and whose f_offset is set to the end > of the file *at the time the write is issued*" > > Now what does O_APPEND mean? > > "When you can vn_open on the nameidata pointer, when you > call the VOP_OPEN, pass the FAPPEND bit in the fmode > argument, where all the FS's will (incorrectly) compare > it to IO_APPEND, which will work because FAPPEND is > defined as IO_APPEND in fcntl.h" > > When nfs_write() is called (in /sys/nfs/nfs_bio.c), if the ioflag > contains IO_APPEND, then a VOP_GETATTR is issued on the vp, and > the uio->uio_offset is set to the value of n_size, which came > from the cache. > > The cache value is set from va_size from a proxied VOP_GETATTR > to the remote system, but *ONLY* if the lease has expired on its > own, or has explicitly been expired. > > What you are seeing is the result of n_attrstamp not being updated > when it should be. > > In fact, you are seeing a race between the flock( fd, LOCK_UN), and > the atime/mtime updates as a result of the operations by write #1. > > > And if you trace down this race window, you will see that what is > happening is that your write call is not calling VOP_LEASE. > > You can get the patch for the files: > > /sys/kern/kern_ktrace.c > /sys/kern/link_aout.c > /src/sys/kern/tty_tty.c > /sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c > > From: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.LEASE > > Note: I am not terribly happy about this code. I believe VOP_LEASE > should be called with the vp locked, but I don't do this in two > vn_rdwr cases because of the indeterminate vp lock state. Of course, > the existing code blows this all to hell (SMP problems with NFS, > anyone?). > > The only way to really fix this reasonable would be to get rid of > vn_rdwr, and replace it with vn_read or vn_write, as appropriate > to the situation. Luckily this is really only a problem for the > ktrace and other unlikely code (it used to be a problem for the > image activator, too, until John fixed it after I complained about > it). > > Pretty clearly vn_rdwr was a hack to avoid locking and unlocking > the vp over every call (cough, cough, lazy thinking, cough, cough). > > > > I'm trying to nail this one down. The latest patches to the NFS code appear > > to make this happen more often than it did before, but it did occasionally > > happen even before the patches. > > Writes to mapped NFS pages need to trigger the lease revocation code > as well. This basically means that there needs to be a VOP_LEASE > call for each and every VOP_PUTPAGES in to NFS. > > This should probably go in the vnode pager code before VOP_PUTPAGES > is called. Before the recent changes, paging *to* an NFS FS was a > hopeless case. Now, it can cause problems (though probably not this > one; I don't believe a putpages can be used to extend a file). The > generic routine should be used in case we ever want to export an > opportunity locking mechanism with full coherency to user space > programs. Like SAMBA. But only if we want O_APPEND to work for > SMB and NFS clients accessing the same file (and what idiot would > want a consistently functional system? Where's the adventure? 8-)). > > > > This NEVER happens on locally mounted files, but occasionally happens > > on NFS mounted files. > > Yes, well, it's a real coding error in the VFS client code; what do > you expect? ;-). > > Like I said, though, doing the patches won't fix all the races with > putpages (consider a record being written, and making the decision of > whether or not to read before write, and a record in an adjacent page > was just touched), and it won't work well under SMP unless vn_rdwr > dies (but then the existing code can't work well under SMP, since most > of the other vn_rdwr references have the same bug). > > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 09:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10074 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:48:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07061 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:50:03 GMT Message-ID: <010001bd4f70$f8381b80$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: ATAPI patch please? Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:45:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG is there some way to unwedge my ATAPI cdrom? i pressed the play button on it while it was being used by a program... the driver doesn't seem to like a manual override. rebooting is not a problem(just an irritation), but every process that tries to access the drive gets stuck in "D" state now. maybe on a long enough wait the driver could force a total reset of the device? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 10:26:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:26:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16923 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:26:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09531; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:26:37 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199803141826.TAA09531@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATAPI patch please? In-Reply-To: <010001bd4f70$f8381b80$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> from Alfred Perlstein at "Mar 14, 98 12:45:23 pm" To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:26:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Alfred Perlstein who wrote: > is there some way to unwedge my ATAPI cdrom? i pressed the play button on it > while it was being used by a program... the driver doesn't seem to like a > manual override. > > rebooting is not a problem(just an irritation), but every process that tries > to access the drive gets stuck in "D" state now. > > maybe on a long enough wait the driver could force a total reset of the > device? I have a routine that does this for the atapi tape, I'll put it on my TODO list for the cd driver... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 12:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01536 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brane.digs.iafrica.com (brane.digs.iafrica.com [196.7.162.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01435 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from iang@digs.iafrica.com) Received: from digs.iafrica.com [127.0.0.1] by brane.digs.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yDxxh-0007fS-00; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:55:21 +0200 To: ken@mui.net cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: radius? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:02:16 GMT." <199803092306.NAA16334@rocksalt.mui.net> X-Attribution: BOFH Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:55:21 +0200 From: Ian Freislich Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ken wrote: > There are going to be 2 locations. Site A and site B have 2 different > user databases. How does one set things up so that if they aren't > in site A, then it passes it to site B? or is there a better way to > handle this? > > Does it have something to do with Radius? You can use the elm authentication provided by the Merit Radius server. >From 'authfile': # This file contains a list of "realm" names which represent # authentication systems which may be used to authenticate a user. # Normally the user specifies the system where authentication is to # be performed by appending a realm name to his/her user id. For # example, "joe@xyz" indicates that user joe wants to be authenticated # by realm xyz. It is the purpose of this file to map the realm name # "xyz" to the actual DNS name of the authentication system and the # authentication protocol to be used. You just get your users to login as 'user@siteA' or 'user@siteB' and configure your radius server using the authfile to pass queries for the other site on to the second radius server. I'm going to be playing with this feature soon so the we can provide a 'virtual ISP' service. Of course, if the password files are reasonably static, it might be easier just to sync them although I think that there will be more maintenance involved (and things to go wrong) if you go that route. I've also made a couple of changes to this server that you may be interested in. -- igf (Ian Freislich) http://copernicus.cpt.tech.iafrica.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 15:18:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17043 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RadhaGaia@aol.com) Received: from RadhaGaia@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id HCAMa11553 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:17:19 -0500 (EST) From: RadhaGaia Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:17:19 EST To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: unsibscribe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG take me off the mailing list, please. thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 15:53:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:53:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26018 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23171; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023139; Sat Mar 14 16:53:06 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20032; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:53:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803142353.QAA20032@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:53:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980314113743.62444@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Mar 14, 98 11:37:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmmm... I've looked at these patches, and have a couple of questions... > > You note that the vnode "should" be locked when the LEASE call is made - yet > in kern_ktrace.c, you call the LEASE request *before* the lock is asserted. > Is this correct, and why? Wouldn't you want to lock the object first to > prevent setting up another potential race condition? Also, ktrace.c > isn't a "standard" execution path, is it? The ordering is problematic in both cases because of the use of vn_rdwr. I think the correct thing to do would be to get rid of the lock and use the vn_write instead (which will VOP_LOCK, VOP_LEASE, VOP_WRITE, and VOP_LOCK). The patch is glue. It won't cause problems, except potentially on SMP NFS, which is already a maze of twisty race conditions, all alike, because of the other vn_rdwr/VOP_LEASE cases. > link_aout.c applies to loading executables, and there it appears that I > can't do any harm (or help) to the current situation by applying this. Yep. It won't help the problem you see, one way or the other. > In the tty_tty.c case, you're also calling the lease before the lock. > Unless I've missed something, this is the common entry point to any file > I/O write request, correct. Again, isn't the order backwards here? Yes. But you are missing struct fileops; tty's are devices, not VFS vp's. > Other than this, does anyone know why weren't they committed? I think a better question to ask would be "do they fix/reduce the problem you are seeing?". If they don't, then your problem isn't a valid argument for committing them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 16:51:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09250 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:51:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09243 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:51:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA16006; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:51:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id SAA29142; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:51:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980314185135.47922@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:51:35 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here References: <19980314113743.62444@mcs.net> <199803142353.QAA20032@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803142353.QAA20032@usr05.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Mar 14, 1998 at 11:53:04PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Mar 14, 1998 at 11:53:04PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Hmmm... I've looked at these patches, and have a couple of questions... > > > > You note that the vnode "should" be locked when the LEASE call is made - yet > > in kern_ktrace.c, you call the LEASE request *before* the lock is asserted. > > Is this correct, and why? Wouldn't you want to lock the object first to > > prevent setting up another potential race condition? Also, ktrace.c > > isn't a "standard" execution path, is it? > > The ordering is problematic in both cases because of the use of > vn_rdwr. > > I think the correct thing to do would be to get rid of the lock > and use the vn_write instead (which will VOP_LOCK, VOP_LEASE, > VOP_WRITE, and VOP_LOCK). The patch is glue. It won't cause > problems, except potentially on SMP NFS, which is already a > maze of twisty race conditions, all alike, because of the other > vn_rdwr/VOP_LEASE cases. > > > > link_aout.c applies to loading executables, and there it appears that I > > can't do any harm (or help) to the current situation by applying this. > > Yep. It won't help the problem you see, one way or the other. > > > > In the tty_tty.c case, you're also calling the lease before the lock. > > Unless I've missed something, this is the common entry point to any file > > I/O write request, correct. Again, isn't the order backwards here? > > Yes. But you are missing struct fileops; tty's are devices, not > VFS vp's. > > > > Other than this, does anyone know why weren't they committed? > > I think a better question to ask would be "do they fix/reduce the > problem you are seeing?". If they don't, then your problem isn't > a valid argument for committing them. > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org What I'm trying to understand is why you're doing these in the order you are (instead of locking first, then doing the LEASE). I'm willing to attempt these (actually, only the one in the tty_tty.c file applies to most normal operations, correct?) but I'd like to *understand* how and why the order is as it is, given that it still looks "backwards" to me in terms of operation sequence. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 17:41:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16763 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:41:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16743 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA11415; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:50:22 -0800 Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:50:22 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: RadhaGaia cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: unsibscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, RadhaGaia wrote: > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:17:19 EST > From: RadhaGaia > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: unsibscribe > > take me off the mailing list, please. thanks > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Can't you read, AOLer? Hint: last two non-empty lines before this one will suffice. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 20:32:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06483 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:32:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06463 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14855; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:31:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:31:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Alex Belits cc: RadhaGaia , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: unsibscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Alex Belits wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, RadhaGaia wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:17:19 EST > > From: RadhaGaia > > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: unsibscribe > > > > take me off the mailing list, please. thanks > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > Can't you read, AOLer? Hint: last two non-empty lines before this one > will suffice. No it won't --- new idiocy of the nouveau tech: subscribe under one name, then complain under another. Happens again and again. Doesn't matter how easy you make it, they will break it. > > -- > Alex > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 21:00:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:00:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12020 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA01503; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:57:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:57:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans Reply-To: Jason Evans To: Chuck Robey cc: Alex Belits , RadhaGaia , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: unsibscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Alex Belits wrote: > > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, RadhaGaia wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:17:19 EST > > > From: RadhaGaia > > > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > > Subject: unsibscribe > > > > > > take me off the mailing list, please. thanks > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > Can't you read, AOLer? Hint: last two non-empty lines before this one > > will suffice. > > No it won't --- new idiocy of the nouveau tech: subscribe under one > name, then complain under another. Happens again and again. Doesn't > matter how easy you make it, they will break it. Actually, last time I unsubscribed from the mailing lists, there was some brokenness in the process. For example, I unsubscribed from freebsd-security by sending: unsubscribe freebsd-security end ... in the body from my jasone@canonware.com account. Majordomo reported success, but I started receiving mail from that list a couple of days later. I went through this process twice, but on the third try, I sent: unsubscribe freebsd-security jasone@canonware.com unsubscribe security jasone@canonware.com end ... and it worked. I don't know enough about majordomo to be able to guess what caused the problem. BTW, this happened for 3 or 4 lists that I was unsubscribing from, so it didn't appear to be a fluke. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 21:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13818 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (tc-8.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13806 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA00579; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:20:22 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:20:16 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a Boot-Mgr... In-Reply-To: <199803090502.VAA13161@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Until recently, I haven't had enough disk space in order to > > install other operating systems, but just acquired a couple of extra > > drives. I want to install Win95 onto one of them for the explicit purpose > > of running Simply Accounting for the business. > > > > How do I, if I can, go about adding in a boot-mgr so that I can > > dual boot? > > Windows 95 can only be booted from the first disk in the system, unless > you invest in one of the commercial boot managers. > > Lots of people have recommended System Commander for this. > > The cheaper way of doing it: > > - Reconfigure your /etc/fstab so that FreeBSD will run as the second > disk. > - Reconfigure the disk that FreeBSD is on to be the second disk. > - Install the new disk for W95 as the first disk, > - Install W95 on it. > - Put the 'bootinst.com' and 'boot.bin' files on a bootable DOS floppy > (get them in the tools directory on any FreeBSD release disk), and > use them to install booteasy on your first disk. Finally got a chance to work on this...First thing I tried was to leave the drives as is, and do the 'bootinst' to write the boot blocks...rebooted the machine, now it gives me: F1 - FreeBSD F5 - disk 2 If I hit F1, it gives me the menu back again...if I hit F5, I get: F1 - DOS F2 - FreeBSD F5 - disk 1 If I hit F1, I get "Non-system disk", if I hit F2, I get the 'boot:' prompt, where I have to type 'wd(0,a)/kernel' to get a boot to my hard drive. So, now I swap the drives, so that my 'Primary IDE' becomes Secondary, and vice versa, and then boot. I get the second menu first (as expected), at which I can hit F1, and it boots to DOS, and if I hit F2, I get the boot: prompt again. Note that my boot (FreeBSD) disk is now on disk 2, not disk 1, with disk two being primary drive on secondary IDE chain. At the boot: prompt, I type in wd(2,a)/kernel, and get a bunch of: Error: D:0x82 C:0 H:0 S:0 If I type in wd(1,a)/kernel, I get the boot sequence (dmesg output?), but after its reported all my hardware (accurately), I get a crash when it tries to mount wd1a ... If I boot off floppy and do the fixit disk, I can mount /dev/wd2a properly...so why can't I seem to get it from the 'boot:' prompt? I'm running 3.0-CURRENT right now, if that means anything... Help? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 23:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:03:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23433 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:03:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09892; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:00:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803150700.XAA09892@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: The Hermit Hacker cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a Boot-Mgr... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:20:16 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:00:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Finally got a chance to work on this...First thing I tried was to leave > the drives as is, and do the 'bootinst' to write the boot > blocks...rebooted the machine, now it gives me: > > F1 - FreeBSD > F5 - disk 2 > > If I hit F1, it gives me the menu back again...if I hit F5, I get: Getting the menu back means that the operating system listed wasn't found where it was supposed to be. This probably means that your first disk is "dedicated" in an incompatible fashion. > F1 - DOS > F2 - FreeBSD > F5 - disk 1 > > If I hit F1, I get "Non-system disk", if I hit F2, I get the 'boot:' That looks about right. You can't boot DOS from the second disk without modifying the bootsector. > So, now I swap the drives, so that my 'Primary IDE' becomes Secondary, and > vice versa, and then boot. > > I get the second menu first (as expected), at which I can hit F1, and it > boots to DOS, and if I hit F2, I get the boot: prompt again. Note that my > boot (FreeBSD) disk is now on disk 2, not disk 1, with disk two being > primary drive on secondary IDE chain. > > At the boot: prompt, I type in wd(2,a)/kernel, and get a bunch of: > > Error: D:0x82 C:0 H:0 S:0 That's because you only have two disks, not three. > If I type in wd(1,a)/kernel, I get the boot sequence (dmesg output?), but > after its reported all my hardware (accurately), I get a crash when it > tries to mount wd1a ... What crash? Do you mean a panic, or a drop to single-user mode (expected, as your /etc/fstab entries will be wrong), or a trap? > If I boot off floppy and do the fixit disk, I can mount /dev/wd2a > properly...so why can't I seem to get it from the 'boot:' prompt? Misunderstanding on your part. The number in parens in the wd(2,a)kernel string means "BIOS wd disk unit 2". But in your kernel configuration, wd2 is the first disk on the second controller. So you want to boot wd(1,a)kernel, and mount /dev/wd2. This may actually be problematic for the boot code; you may have to regenerate your kernel so that wd1 is actually on the second controller so that the BIOS and wd unit numbers match. (No, I DID NOT touch this code 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 14 23:25:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25020 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:25:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (tc-8.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25013 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:25:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA01441; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:25:19 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 03:25:19 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding a Boot-Mgr... In-Reply-To: <199803150700.XAA09892@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Finally got a chance to work on this...First thing I tried was to leave > > the drives as is, and do the 'bootinst' to write the boot > > blocks...rebooted the machine, now it gives me: > > > > F1 - FreeBSD > > F5 - disk 2 > > > > If I hit F1, it gives me the menu back again...if I hit F5, I get: > > Getting the menu back means that the operating system listed wasn't > found where it was supposed to be. This probably means that your first > disk is "dedicated" in an incompatible fashion. disk 1 was created as a FreeBSD only drive, since I never planned on installing any other operating systems on it...does this constitute "dedicated in an incompatible fashion"? :( > > At the boot: prompt, I type in wd(2,a)/kernel, and get a bunch of: > > > > Error: D:0x82 C:0 H:0 S:0 > > That's because you only have two disks, not three. Ah, okay... > > If I type in wd(1,a)/kernel, I get the boot sequence (dmesg output?), but > > after its reported all my hardware (accurately), I get a crash when it > > tries to mount wd1a ... > > What crash? Do you mean a panic, or a drop to single-user mode > (expected, as your /etc/fstab entries will be wrong), or a trap? panic and then reboot...my /etc/fstab was changed before I rebooted... > > If I boot off floppy and do the fixit disk, I can mount /dev/wd2a > > properly...so why can't I seem to get it from the 'boot:' prompt? > > Misunderstanding on your part. The number in parens in the > wd(2,a)kernel string means "BIOS wd disk unit 2". But in your kernel > configuration, wd2 is the first disk on the second controller. > > So you want to boot wd(1,a)kernel, and mount /dev/wd2. This may > actually be problematic for the boot code; you may have to regenerate > your kernel so that wd1 is actually on the second controller so that > the BIOS and wd unit numbers match. So, do something like the following? controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr disk wd1 at wdc1 drive 0 disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 1 Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 05:37:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16767 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA16761 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:37:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10854 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:35:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803151335.FAA10854@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Freefall.freebsd.org DOWNTIME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:35:21 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Due to ongoing hardware difficulties, freefall was down from around 11pm PST until 5:15am. The outage was much longer than anticipated, owing to a particularly pernicious problem, which has not been resolved. No data or files were lost. Maintenance will be scheduled for 8pm PST on the 15th March, at which time we hope to resolve the issue. Apologies for the inconvenience. FreeBSD.org Hardware Smurfs. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 08:08:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28957 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dossv1.ici.ro (dossv1.ici.ro [193.230.3.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28939 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dano@dossv1.ici.ro) Received: from localhost (dano@localhost) by dossv1.ici.ro (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05233 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:09:57 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from dano@dossv1.ici.ro) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:09:56 +0200 (EET) From: Dan Ontanu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A problem with serial ports. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a boot floppy for FreeBSD 2.2.5. The probe program doesn't see the serial ports sio0 and sio1 (at 3f8 irq 4 and 2f8 irq 3, respectively). These are the correct settings, for sure. No other serial ports are installed. The mainboard is a very new one (at least here in Romania) i430 TX based (or inspired...). The CPU is K6 at 200 MHz. The ISA boards installed are the SVGA (S3 based), the Sound Blaster Pro (8 bit) and the Adaptec 1542B host adapter. No PCI board is installed. The NT had no problem in seeing the ports and also Linux (Slackware 3.4). Of course, the two ports are enabled from the Award BIOS Setup program, with the above I/O addresses and IRQ's. Does someone have a solution? Sincerely, Dan Ontanu. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 09:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06873 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailer.sds.com (host5-171-228-196.btinternet.com [195.171.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06771; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:38:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sds@cityway.com) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:38:06 -0800 (PST) From: sds@cityway.com Message-Id: <199803151738.JAA06771@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Hiya To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiya I thought you should know : Celebs-nude.com is now offering totally FREE access for two full day`s to their large archive of nude celebrities, over 10,000 high quality totally nude pics in total with over 1500 Celebrities nude !!!....... Come along today you have nothing to lose its totally FREE !!!..... http://www.celebs-nude.com/ http://www.celebs-nude.com/ That address again !!: http://www.celebs-nude.com/ Thankyou Kathryn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 09:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07232 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:41:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caro.net (0@ns1.caro.NET [209.12.200.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07194; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:40:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from awhawks@usa.net) Received: from hawks.caro.net (hawks.caro.NET [209.12.201.17]) by caro.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27958; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:44:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:40:28 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "Adam W. Hawks" From: "Adam W. Hawks" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Insat Wireless Modem Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Adam W. Hawks Date: 14-Mar-98 Time: 16:06:10 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- Well folks a while back there was some talk about the insat wireless modem and whether it would work in FreeBSD or whether drivers had to be written. Well I took the leap and bought one and it will work in FreeBSD without any coding. The modem is a standard CDPD modem. For it to work with FreeBSD you have to give up the Venturi compression. The max rate in FreeBSD (without the compression) will be 19200 (portrate) and this will vary with CDPD signal strength. If someone can get info on the Venturi algorithm or get them to do a FreeBSD version then this should also work. How I got it to work. 1) turned of encryption in the modem. 2) I conected to modem with cu and put modem in SLIP mode "at sli slip" 3) I then did "ifconfig sl0 inet mymodemIP -> DNSserver(seems to be the same as the gateway) 4) I then did "slattach -h -s 19200 /dev/modem 5) I then did "route add default DNSserver 6) at this point I could work on the net. This may be trivial to some of you but it took me a while to find out the modem command that would let it work. It does seem that SLIP is the only way to connect with this modem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 13:38:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:38:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04654 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Peter.Jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ([139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IUQ7S1QXB4002WIO@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:37:27 +1000 Received: from cbd.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #9239) with ESMTP id <01IUQ7RYVVTCA8DHRD@cim.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:37:24 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cbd.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IUQ7RV5NWGAZTK1J@cbd.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:37:18 +1100 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id IAA04231 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:37:16 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:37:16 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: IDE+LPIP causing random lockups To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199803152137.IAA04231@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been having occasional lockups on my main system for some time now (it occurs with all 2.2.x releases, I can't recall if 2.1.x was affected). I am wondering if anyone else has seen something similar. Configuration: main machine: VLB-based 486DX2-50 with 2 IDE disks (32-bit, multiblock 16) on 1 (VLB) controller, running 2.2.5-R. 2nd machine: Toshiba T1850 (386SX25 with 1 IDE disk) running 2.2.1-R The machines are joined by a laplink cable and use LPIP. The symptoms are that my main machine (only) locks up and needs a reset to recover. The laptop has never been affected. The problem only occurs when there is LPIP activity between the machines and seems to also correlate with disk activity on the main machine, and using ssh to transfer data. Running XFree86 also seems to make it worse (but this might just be the increased disk activity associated with running X11 in less than infinite RAM). Note that between talking to IDE disks and communicating with a slow host via LPIP, the machine spends a lot of time inside interrupts - often over 30% according to top. Having (finally) gotten around to loading a kernel with DDB, I find that the lockup appears to be caused by sbcompress() attempting to add an mbuf to itself - sbappend() is called to append an mbuf to sockbuf that already includes that mbuf in the mbuf list. When this is passed to sbcompress(), it winds up in an infinite loop. My suspicion is that something is continuing to use an mbuf after it frees it, probably associated with some sort of interrupt window. I've added some checks in the mbuf code to try and pick this up, but haven't found the problem yet. I did notice that the splXXX() routines don't atomically update cpl, but the associated comments (in i386/include/spl.h) say this is OK. I have (less frequently) seen kernel page faults with addresses like 0xf400xxxx, 0x79xxxxxx. I haven't looked into these yet. I'm hoping they are caused by the mbuf's being used for two things at once. Does anyone have any ideas? Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 13:56:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10659 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10498 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14948; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014927; Sun Mar 15 14:55:26 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13550; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:55:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803152155.OAA13550@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:55:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980314185135.47922@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Mar 14, 98 06:51:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What I'm trying to understand is why you're doing these in the order you are > (instead of locking first, then doing the LEASE). > > I'm willing to attempt these (actually, only the one in the tty_tty.c file > applies to most normal operations, correct?) but I'd like to *understand* > how and why the order is as it is, given that it still looks "backwards" > to me in terms of operation sequence. OK. If you look at the code around the vn_read and vn_write, vs. the code around vn_rdwr, you will see a pattern begin to emerge. In all cases, when vn_read or vn_write is called, the vp is locked. When vn_rdwr, it's not clear whether or not the vp is locked. The answer is "it depends on who is doing the calling". One of several problems here is order of operation; I happen to think it's the most important of them: If it's locked, you want to call VOP_LEASE before calling vn_rdwr, because you know whether you are reading or writing before you call If it's not locked, you want to call VOP_LEASE in vn_rdwr itself after the lock is asserted. The problem in the second becomes obvious when you go to try to add the code to actually implement it. For right now, I've punted. You don't sleep with a partially complete operation that for whatever reason needs atomicity in the VOP_LEASE call path, so it's not really dangerous to call it on unlocked VP's, unless you have the possibility of another scheduling context active in there at the same time. This can only happen in: 1) SMP, if the kernel is reentrant and depending on object locks 2) Kernel threading, if the kernel is thread reeentrant, and depending on object locks 3) Kernel preemption, as an implementation detail for realtime processing, where the preemption depends on object locks The punt is OK in this case, because of the other places vn_rdwr is used. The only real fix you could apply would be to get rid of vn_rdwr entirely. I have not made it more broken than it was. Right now, this means NFS is unstable in SMP (at least it has been empirically so on my SMP box), and the patches for additional lease calling at least follow the dictum "above all else, do no harm", and *should* help in the UP case. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:06:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11947 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11915; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:06:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27705; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:05:02 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <350C5084.9DD28C11@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:04:54 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ANNOUNCE: GUI/Web admin-0.96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm happy to announce 0.96 version of GUI admin tool. It have Tk and CGI interfaces and fully implement adduser/edituser/rmuser actions. For more informations. please, refer to http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:13:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:13:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14013 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:13:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08791; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd008762; Sun Mar 15 15:13:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14399; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:12:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803152212.PAA14399@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:12:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: karl@mcs.net, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803152155.OAA13550@usr06.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 15, 98 09:55:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you look at the code around the vn_read and vn_write, vs. the > code around vn_rdwr, you will see a pattern begin to emerge. > > In all cases, when vn_read or vn_write is called, the vp is locked. I meant "unlocked". Right now, I am unsure of the lease code. When I say that I think the vp should be locked, that's because all vp's should be locked before they are dereferenced to make VOP calls. This is also why vp locking should be done with a vn_lock() function which locks the vp before it makes the VOP_LOCK call by dereferencing the vp to get the FS specific function. This is also why the underlying VOP_LOCK should be veto-based. Basically, if a vp is in the VOF layer (not necessarily just below the VFS layer, at least until Michael Hancock's VOP_VRELE), the vp should be locked. Period. This drastically simplifies a VFS consumer's view of the world. I do not think the lease code would actually survive being called with a locked vp at this point because of nqnfs_lease_updatetime, which traverses the mountlist. This is not something trivially fixable without a lot of controversial code. Hence the punt. Is that enough information? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:31:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17128 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:31:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16943 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12153; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:26:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803152226.OAA12153@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dan Ontanu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A problem with serial ports. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:09:56 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:26:49 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a boot floppy for FreeBSD 2.2.5. The probe program doesn't see the > serial ports sio0 and sio1 (at 3f8 irq 4 and 2f8 irq 3, respectively). > These are the correct settings, for sure. No other serial ports are > installed. The mainboard is a very new one > (at least here in Romania) i430 TX based (or inspired...). This wouldn't happen to be an Iwill board, perhaps using an Acer multi-I/O device, hmm? If this is the case, then you will need a patch for the 'sio' driver, available from Greg Lehey's page (http://www.lemis.com/). This UART appears to have some serious behavioural disorders, and the sio probe is extremely severe about the port working correctly. (In the current context, this is perhaps a little foolish...) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:35:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18336 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18281 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA11128; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:35:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA16218; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:35:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980315163531.12987@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:35:31 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here References: <199803152155.OAA13550@usr06.primenet.com> <199803152212.PAA14399@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803152212.PAA14399@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 10:12:59PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't understand something. Why not, when you release a lock on a file mounted over NFS, just flush the cached attributes BEFORE you release the lock at the kernel level? No, it doesn't take care of the case where you don't lock. But it DOES solve the problem where you do (and if you're not locking, you arguably deserve what you get anyway). -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 10:12:59PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If you look at the code around the vn_read and vn_write, vs. the > > code around vn_rdwr, you will see a pattern begin to emerge. > > > > In all cases, when vn_read or vn_write is called, the vp is locked. > > I meant "unlocked". > > Right now, I am unsure of the lease code. When I say that I think > the vp should be locked, that's because all vp's should be locked > before they are dereferenced to make VOP calls. This is also why > vp locking should be done with a vn_lock() function which locks > the vp before it makes the VOP_LOCK call by dereferencing the vp > to get the FS specific function. This is also why the underlying > VOP_LOCK should be veto-based. > > Basically, if a vp is in the VOF layer (not necessarily just below > the VFS layer, at least until Michael Hancock's VOP_VRELE), the vp > should be locked. > > Period. > > This drastically simplifies a VFS consumer's view of the world. > > I do not think the lease code would actually survive being called > with a locked vp at this point because of nqnfs_lease_updatetime, > which traverses the mountlist. > > This is not something trivially fixable without a lot of controversial > code. > > Hence the punt. > > Is that enough information? > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:36:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18438 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:36:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18313; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:35:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA16737; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:34:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:34:28 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: GUI/Web admin-0.96 In-Reply-To: <350C5084.9DD28C11@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > I'm happy to announce 0.96 version of GUI admin tool. > > It have Tk and CGI interfaces and fully implement > adduser/edituser/rmuser actions. > > For more informations. please, refer to > http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html New one is less than 1/3 the size of the 0.95 version. What got removed? > > > -- > > @= > //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 14:44:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21270 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21000; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27780; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:42:13 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <350C5940.3F13BAB1@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:42:11 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: GUI/Web admin-0.96 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > ? I'm happy to announce 0.96 version of GUI admin tool. > ? > ? It have Tk and CGI interfaces and fully implement > ? adduser/edituser/rmuser actions. > ? > ? For more informations. please, refer to > ? http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html > > New one is less than 1/3 the size of the 0.95 version. What got > removed? > I just discovered, that .so stuff was archived in 0.95(bug in Makefile, now fixed) > ? > ? > ? -- > ? > ? @= > ? //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > ? with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > ? > ? > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data > chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. > 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | > Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD > (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-config" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 15:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25488 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25388 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mercury.mcs.net) Received: from Mercury.mcs.net (karl@Mercury.mcs.net [192.160.127.80]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA11765; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:06:15 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mercury.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id RAA05490; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:06:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980315170614.50631@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 17:06:14 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd problem we're seeing here References: <199803152155.OAA13550@usr06.primenet.com> <199803152212.PAA14399@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803152212.PAA14399@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 10:12:59PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All I got out of turning on the NQNFS mode was a near-immediate hard system hang - no I/O, no nothing. Needless to say, that's no good :-) I don't know if my earlier mail got out or not, but wouldn't an effective workaround for the cache coherency problem be to flush the attribute cache on any flock(..., LOCK_UN) operation (either explicit or implied on file close)? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 10:12:59PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If you look at the code around the vn_read and vn_write, vs. the > > code around vn_rdwr, you will see a pattern begin to emerge. > > > > In all cases, when vn_read or vn_write is called, the vp is locked. > > I meant "unlocked". > > Right now, I am unsure of the lease code. When I say that I think > the vp should be locked, that's because all vp's should be locked > before they are dereferenced to make VOP calls. This is also why > vp locking should be done with a vn_lock() function which locks > the vp before it makes the VOP_LOCK call by dereferencing the vp > to get the FS specific function. This is also why the underlying > VOP_LOCK should be veto-based. > > Basically, if a vp is in the VOF layer (not necessarily just below > the VFS layer, at least until Michael Hancock's VOP_VRELE), the vp > should be locked. > > Period. > > This drastically simplifies a VFS consumer's view of the world. > > I do not think the lease code would actually survive being called > with a locked vp at this point because of nqnfs_lease_updatetime, > which traverses the mountlist. > > This is not something trivially fixable without a lot of controversial > code. > > Hence the punt. > > Is that enough information? > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 16:12:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07660 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:12:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07593 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:11:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06964; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:40:53 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA23677; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:40:53 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980316104052.41349@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:40:52 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith , Dan Ontanu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A problem with serial ports. References: <199803152226.OAA12153@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803152226.OAA12153@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 02:26:49PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 15 March 1998 at 14:26:49 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> I have a boot floppy for FreeBSD 2.2.5. The probe program doesn't see the >> serial ports sio0 and sio1 (at 3f8 irq 4 and 2f8 irq 3, respectively). >> These are the correct settings, for sure. No other serial ports are >> installed. The mainboard is a very new one >> (at least here in Romania) i430 TX based (or inspired...). > > This wouldn't happen to be an Iwill board, perhaps using an Acer > multi-I/O device, hmm? > > If this is the case, then you will need a patch for the 'sio' driver, > available from Greg Lehey's page (http://www.lemis.com/). Try http://www.lemis.com/serial-port-patch.html. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 16:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09750 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA09745 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:27:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA00556; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:27:53 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:27:53 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: building world... Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I always wonder what I'm doing wrong. It's rare I can get a buildworld to ever go through cleanly, but I don't hear anyone else complaining, so I'm not sure what's up. Anyway, any ideas what this means? building shared c library (version 3.1) nm: bt_debug.so: no name list nm: euc.so: no name list nm: mskanji.so: no name list nm: utf2.so: no name list nm: putw.so: not object file or archive nm: refill.so: not object file or archive nm: remove.so: not object file or archive nm: rewind.so: not object file or archive nm: rget.so: not object file or archive nm: scanf.so: not object file or archive nm: snprintf.so: not object file or archive ld: snprintf.so: malformed input file (not rel or archive) *** Error code 1 Stop. Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 18:38:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:38:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22471 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17198; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:37:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:37:56 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Brian Handy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: building world... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > I always wonder what I'm doing wrong. It's rare I can get a buildworld to > ever go through cleanly, but I don't hear anyone else complaining, so I'm > not sure what's up. > > Anyway, any ideas what this means? > > building shared c library (version 3.1) > nm: bt_debug.so: no name list > nm: euc.so: no name list > nm: mskanji.so: no name list > nm: utf2.so: no name list > nm: putw.so: not object file or archive > nm: refill.so: not object file or archive > nm: remove.so: not object file or archive > nm: rewind.so: not object file or archive > nm: rget.so: not object file or archive > nm: scanf.so: not object file or archive > nm: snprintf.so: not object file or archive > ld: snprintf.so: malformed input file (not rel or archive) > *** Error code 1 Huh. Mine go through fairly regularly. How confident are you of your sources, Brian? > > Stop. > > > > > Brian > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 18:42:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23158 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:42:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA23079 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:42:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA19769; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:42:33 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:42:32 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: Chuck Robey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: building world... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > [2.2-STABLE] > >> building shared c library (version 3.1) >> nm: bt_debug.so: no name list >> [...] >> *** Error code 1 > >Huh. Mine go through fairly regularly. How confident are you of your >sources, Brian? Hmmm, I wonder if I've got some screwed-up hardware here. I kicked off the buildworld again and it worked the second time. No change in the sources between builds. More experimentation is clearly in order. Bah... Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 18:52:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25045 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25034 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:52:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16690; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <350C93DC.610BC0DF@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:52:12 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0313 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: building world... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Handy wrote: > > I always wonder what I'm doing wrong. It's rare I can get a buildworld to > ever go through cleanly, but I don't hear anyone else complaining, so I'm > not sure what's up. > > Anyway, any ideas what this means? It's hard to tell since you didn't say what version you're running. If you're running -current, please follow up to freebsd-current. If -stable, freebsd-stable. > building shared c library (version 3.1) > nm: bt_debug.so: no name list > nm: euc.so: no name list > nm: mskanji.so: no name list > nm: utf2.so: no name list I see these kinds of warnings all the time on -stable. > nm: putw.so: not object file or archive > nm: refill.so: not object file or archive > nm: remove.so: not object file or archive > nm: rewind.so: not object file or archive > nm: rget.so: not object file or archive > nm: scanf.so: not object file or archive > nm: snprintf.so: not object file or archive > ld: snprintf.so: malformed input file (not rel or archive) > *** Error code 1 Those luck bad. :) They also look like classic dirty /usr/src or /usr/obj directory errors. Have you tried totally deleting /usr/obj/* and /usr/src/* and downloading fresh source? I have a step-by-step procedure for this on my make world page, http://home.san.rr.com/freebsd/upgrade.html. I also just updated it today so it's a good time to give it a look. :) Hope this helps, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 15 20:59:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08327 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [193.195.0.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA08273 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id ab1015502; 16 Mar 98 4:30 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yELul-0003Pj-00; Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:29:55 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803152137.IAA04231@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:29:54 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Peter Jeremy Subject: RE: IDE+LPIP causing random lockups Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Mar-98 Peter Jeremy wrote: > I have been having occasional lockups on my main system for some time > now (it occurs with all 2.2.x releases, I can't recall if 2.1.x was > affected). I am wondering if anyone else has seen something similar. > > Configuration: > main machine: VLB-based 486DX2-50 with 2 IDE disks (32-bit, multiblock 16) > on 1 (VLB) controller, running 2.2.5-R. > 2nd machine: Toshiba T1850 (386SX25 with 1 IDE disk) running 2.2.1-R > > The machines are joined by a laplink cable and use LPIP. > > The symptoms are that my main machine (only) locks up and needs a > reset to recover. The laptop has never been affected. The problem > only occurs when there is LPIP activity between the machines and seems > to also correlate with disk activity on the main machine, and using > ssh to transfer data. Running XFree86 also seems to make it worse > (but this might just be the increased disk activity associated with > running X11 in less than infinite RAM). Note that between talking to > IDE disks and communicating with a slow host via LPIP, the machine > spends a lot of time inside interrupts - often over 30% according to > top. Only to add that I have seen this happen in a similar set up. However I feel it is also to do with having a "fast" and "slow" machine. The "fast" machine dies more frequently than the "slow" machine; and it depends on which machine sets the sockets up. E.g. an rcp from "fast" to "slow" dies; but and rcp on the same file from "slow" to "fast" works! The machines are a Contura 4/25 with 8MB ram and a VESA/ISA/PCI 5x86 with 20MB both running 2.2-stable from mid summer. I posted something on this a few months ago to c.u.b.f.m. Have a look on Deja News (I managed to configure my news reader not to save posting, sorry). > > Having (finally) gotten around to loading a kernel with DDB, I find > that the lockup appears to be caused by sbcompress() attempting to > add an mbuf to itself - sbappend() is called to append an mbuf to > sockbuf that already includes that mbuf in the mbuf list. When this > is passed to sbcompress(), it winds up in an infinite loop. > > My suspicion is that something is continuing to use an mbuf after it > frees it, probably associated with some sort of interrupt window. > I've added some checks in the mbuf code to try and pick this up, but > haven't found the problem yet. I did notice that the splXXX() > routines don't atomically update cpl, but the associated comments (in > i386/include/spl.h) say this is OK. > > I have (less frequently) seen kernel page faults with addresses like > 0xf400xxxx, 0x79xxxxxx. I haven't looked into these yet. I'm hoping > they are caused by the mbuf's being used for two things at once. > > Does anyone have any ideas? You've got a lot further than I did in tracking it down! > Peter > -- > Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au > Alcatel Australia Limited > 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 > ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 01:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04842 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from solaric.UkrCard.COM (ukrcard-gu.gu.net [194.93.170.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04834 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:49:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@UkrCard.COM) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by solaric.UkrCard.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06735; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:48:50 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from alex@solaric.UkrCard.COM) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:48:49 +0200 (EET) From: Alexander Tatmaniants To: Ng Pheng Siong cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 breaks serialmail? In-Reply-To: <19980314015627.36946@dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Ng Pheng Siong wrote: > Hi, > > I've been running 2.2.2 as a PPP dial-up machine. My mail setup > is qmail + serialmail + fetchmail + procmail, and I've had > no problem at all since installation about 9 months ago. > > I've just added a new harddisk, and have installed 2.2.5 > on it. I'm now multi-booting among 2.2.2, 2.2.5 and other OS'es. > > On 2.2.5, qmail + fetchmail + procmail still work, and I have no > problem popping mail from my ISP. But I can't send mail at all, coz > serialmail doesn't work now. I've used serialmail 0.51, 0.7x, run > serialmail from the 2.2.2 partition. Re-installed qmail, even. > No joy. ;( > > 2.2.2 continues to work. This mail is sent from 2.2.2. > > I've ktraced serialmail on 2.2.5: a vital unlink (of the message file > in the mail queue) did not happen. > > Any clues? I'm not subscribed, please cc replies to me. TIA. Cheers. > > BTW, 2.2.5 appears a little sluggish compared to 2.2.2. (And ppp > executable by root only is no fun.) Not at all, it's also executable by group network, simply add your login name to appropriate line at /etc/group file. > > > -- > Ng Pheng Siong > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 03:06:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-08.comnet.ca [206.75.140.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13423 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0yEVvf-00086LC; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:11:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: freebsd@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance) Subject: Re: building world... In-Reply-To: from Brian Handy at "Mar 15, 98 06:42:32 pm" To: handy@sag.space.lockheed.com (Brian Handy) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:11:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > > [2.2-STABLE] > > > >> building shared c library (version 3.1) > >> nm: bt_debug.so: no name list > >> [...] > >> *** Error code 1 > > > >Huh. Mine go through fairly regularly. How confident are you of your > >sources, Brian? > > > Hmmm, I wonder if I've got some screwed-up hardware here. I kicked off > the buildworld again and it worked the second time. No change in the > sources between builds. > > More experimentation is clearly in order. Bah... It never hurts to do a "make includes" first... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 06:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24765 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:42:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sparks.net (exim@aug-modem13.ctel.net [208.221.75.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA24745 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 0yEaxA-000297-00; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:33:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:33:24 -0500 (EST) From: To: Curt Sampson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Curt Sampson wrote: > On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 david@sparks.net wrote: > > > While we're on the subject of fast ethernet cards, does anyone know of any > > muli-port fast ethernet cards? > > Adaptec has just released two and four port cards that are based > on some sort of DEC chip. I'd bet they're pretty similar to the > Znyx ones. > > > My experience with Znyx 348's (dual port) was that they'd "steal" IRQ's > > from the neighboring PCI slots, interfering with a (for example) WANic > > (SDL Riscomm sync serial board) board the next slot over. > > ... > > What I'd love to see is a 100+ dash 4 which used a single a single IRQ for > > all four ports:) > > I seem to recall that the two-port ones were both on the main bus, > but the four-port ones had four chips behind a PCI-PCI bridge, > which fixed the interrupt problem. That would explain things. I was using the two port cards and pulling my hair out over it. If/when they were assigned the same IRQ as some other board, like an ET card, neither device worked. Very unlike the other message where a user had a de* and ncr* sharing IRQ 9. Thanks for the input, I'll take a look at the adaptec cards:) --- David Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:06:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:06:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09458 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20579 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:05:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:05:26 -0800 Message-ID: <20575.890064326@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know, I know, I've been a real hoser about getting issue #2 ready but I think you folks know how it is. So anyway, here's the deal: I'd like to get the next edition finished and off to the printers within the next 10 days, giving me enough time to get copies back in time to ship along with the 2.2.6 CDROM, and if you've got an article you'd like to have published in the next newsletter or even if you sent me a previous submission and now want to update it, please get it to me ASAP! I promise to be a better editor this time and actually get back to you with feedback before we both turn old and grey, honest! :) Submissions should be in simple ASCII (we'll handle the formatting details) and sent to me directly. Some possible topics ideas: * An article comparing FreeBSD to other OS's, or unique features A comparison of FreeBSD and Linux A comparison of FreeBSD and Solaris A comparison of FreeBSD and BSDI A comparison of FreeBSD and NetBSD A comparison of FreeBSD and Windows-NT A comparison of FreeBSD and the Timex Sinclair (just checking to see if you were paying attention). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * An article about kernel internals -- VM system -- Filesytem -- Comparison of FFS vs LFS -- How to write a device driver -- ??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * An article about application programming with some working code -- Programming with POSIX threads -- Programming with sockets -- Programming with mapped files -- How to use GDB to debug your program -- How to use gprof to profile and optimize your program -- Porting a program to FreeBSD. What are the most likely porting problems and how to fix them -- Using Gnu "Configure" to make your programs portable -- About the ports collection ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * An article answering a common tech support problem -- Installing FreeBSD -- common problems, and how to work around them -- Setting up X Windows -- Coping with media failures. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * A corporate or individual profile or interview An article about an organization using FreeBSD for an interesting or innovative application. Or an interview of a FreeBSD developer and the projects under development. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * An article about System Administration -- Using FreeBSD as a Webserver -- Using FreeBSD as a Firewall -- Using FreeBSD as a Database server -- How to do reliable backups on FreeBSD -- How to add a new user -- How to set up a nameserver -- How to add a new machine to your network -- How to set up a newsserver -- How to find security problems on your system -- How to set up an ftp server -- How to use mirror -- How to find and fix your systems bottlenecks -- Duties of a postmaster, how to configure sendmail -- How to install and use Netscape -- " " " Gcc -- " " " Postgres -- " " " Emacs -- " " " Apache -- " " " ???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * A cheat sheet or tutorial Each issue could contain a short "cheat sheet" similar to the "quick reference guides" published by SSC. These would be something that would make people keep old issues, and maybe cut out and laminate or tape up on the wall next to their monitor. -- sed/ed/vi/perl regular expressions -- standard emacs key bindings -- vi -- shell programming -- tcsh -- perl regex, file flags and command line options -- Standard C library, C operator precedence -- gdb -- standard Java classes -- HTML tags ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * An article about freeware -- features of the latest gcc -- msql vs. postgres95 -- The latest cool new freeware package -- Making a Rockridge CDROM using mkisofs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * A review of a couple really useful websites Other FreeBSD related websites Websites with resources for programmers, and system administrators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * A brief synopsis of a Unix utility or an interesting Shell script -- perl one liners -- shell programming -- regular expressions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Reviews of new books, hardware or commercial software Books: -- The "4.4 BSD Internals" book -- Greg Lehey's thick book -- ??? Hardware: -- New DVD drives that work with FreeBSD -- List of vendors that supply FreeBSD capable hardware -- ??? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA11843 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:18:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Mon Mar 16 11:11 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA19190 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:17:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:17:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: DVD, was:RE: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 d ays. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:17:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard[SMTP:jkh@time.cdrom.com] > > Hardware: > -- New DVD drives that work with FreeBSD > Huh ? Which ones ? Can you please give more detail ? Thanks! -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:26:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:26:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15230 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA20221; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:57:51 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803161457.PAA20221@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:57:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20575.890064326@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 16, 98 08:05:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Submissions should be in simple ASCII (we'll handle the formatting > details) and sent to me directly. Some possible topics ideas: ... [how to do X with FreeBSD] and all in less than 300 words, right ? cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:29:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16394 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:29:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16327 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20715; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DVD, was:RE: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 d ays. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:17:18 EST." Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:27:37 -0800 Message-ID: <20712.890065657@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ---------- > > From: Jordan K. Hubbard[SMTP:jkh@time.cdrom.com] > > > > Hardware: > > -- New DVD drives that work with FreeBSD > > > Huh ? Which ones ? Can you please give more detail ? Thanks! It was just an idea and I have no idea if any actually work with FreeBSD. That's why we need articles about it, SB. :) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17805 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20769; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:57:51 +0100." <199803161457.PAA20221@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:31:26 -0800 Message-ID: <20766.890065886@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Submissions should be in simple ASCII (we'll handle the formatting > > details) and sent to me directly. Some possible topics ideas: > ... [how to do X with FreeBSD] > > and all in less than 300 words, right ? Depends on your article - I've never set any hard and fast limits, but here's a count from the last issue: Yahoo 730 words. ftp site 571 words. intro 534 words. jdk 233 words. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 08:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19514 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echo.eos.ncsu.edu (echo.eos.ncsu.edu [152.1.68.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19507 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsj@eos.ncsu.edu) Received: (from nsj@localhost) by echo.eos.ncsu.edu (8.8.4/EC02Jan97) id QAA17480; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:40:11 GMT Message-Id: <199803161640.QAA17480@echo.eos.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: DVD, was:RE: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 d ays. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:40:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20712.890065657@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 16, 98 08:27:37 am Reply-To: nsj@ncsu.edu From: nsj@ncsu.edu (Nate Johnson) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24/POP] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG %> > Hardware: %> > -- New DVD drives that work with FreeBSD %> > %> Huh ? Which ones ? Can you please give more detail ? Thanks! % %It was just an idea and I have no idea if any actually work with %FreeBSD. That's why we need articles about it, SB. :) Considering the back page of Greg Lehey's latest revision of _Complete_FreeBSD_ has an ad (actually, an order form!) for a copy of FreeBSD on DVD, I would hope that there are some in existence that do work. =) Of course, I've never seen one. If a DVD disc is stamped in the forest, but there aren't any supported DVD machines... Cheers, nsj -- Nate Johnson \ nsj@ncsu.edu \ nsj@nortel.net \ nsj@FreeBSD.org Gallery & News Editor, FreeBSD Documentation Project / http://www.freebsd.org/ Inside your PC is a daemon waiting to be unleashed; unleash it with FreeBSD! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 09:15:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04963 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:15:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04954 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20959; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: nsj@ncsu.edu cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DVD, was:RE: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 d ays. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:40:08 EST." <199803161640.QAA17480@echo.eos.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:13:47 -0800 Message-ID: <20955.890068427@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Considering the back page of Greg Lehey's latest revision of > _Complete_FreeBSD_ has an ad (actually, an order form!) for a > copy of FreeBSD on DVD, I would hope that there are some in existence > that do work. =) Heh. Actually, I hate to say that the advert went out before we'd successfully produced such a thing. It's only afterwards that we found out (after much work and sweat) that the CD replication houses are completely and totally incapable of producing DVDs with long filenames. I'm not sure that there will ever be a FreeBSD DVD. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 09:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:23:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08256 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:23:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09944; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:23:52 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:23:52 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-Reply-To: <20575.890064326@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > * A corporate or individual profile or interview > > An article about an organization using FreeBSD for an interesting or > innovative application. Or an interview of a FreeBSD developer and > the projects under development. I'd love to see an interview with you and DG on history and details of setting up the wcarchive. This would make an interesting reading especially for ISPs... Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 11:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19628 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA19582 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA20545; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:39:28 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803161739.SAA20545@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. To: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:39:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Andrzej Bialecki" at Mar 16, 98 06:23:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd love to see an interview with you and DG on history and details of > setting up the wcarchive. This would make an interesting reading > especially for ISPs... i think instead that a few things about PicoBSD would be great.... cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 11:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23321 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.91.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23299 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:16:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11801; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:10:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:10:41 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Berlin To: Luigi Rizzo cc: Andrzej Bialecki , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-Reply-To: <199803161739.SAA20545@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How bout you guys fight it out in a neutral country and we make an interesting article about it? Maybe include some mpegs. :) --Dan On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I'd love to see an interview with you and DG on history and details of > > setting up the wcarchive. This would make an interesting reading > > especially for ISPs... > > i think instead that a few things about PicoBSD would be great.... > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 11:33:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28760 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28712 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k.keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from benway (benway.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.9.33]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA04599 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:32:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:34:46 -0500 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What's the rationale for having the SJIS and EUC locale support in libxpg4 instead of libc? I want X programs to work in any locale. Making me drag in a static setlocale w/ SJIS/EUC support from libxpg4 instead of just getting it from shared libc seems, er, shall we say strange. (I had sent this question once before over the weekend, and it never came back, so I think you did lose some files when freefall went down.) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY X Architect, The Open Group X Project Team To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 12:13:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09206 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:13:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sctmg02.sct.ucarb.com (sctmg02.sct.ucarb.com [140.170.101.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09196 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:13:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from NguyenHM@ucarb.com) Received: by sctmg02.sct.ucarb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:14:58 -0500 Message-ID: <332F90115D96D0119CD500805FEA976B0117E294@HSCMS01> From: "Nguyen HM (Mike)" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbie LFS question Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:14:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I remember seeing a paper about LFS, maybe in one of my old computer architecture classes. I'm pretty sure it was a paper written about LFS as it applied to 4.4BSD. Does anyone have any references, also for LFSs and JFSs in general? Thanks, Mike. P.S. Here's a quickie: what exactly is the difference between a journalled filesystem and a log-structured filesystem? I would imagine they have similar goals. // Mike Nguyen // Unix Systems Analyst and Geek // Union Carbide Corporation * (281) 212-8073 // nguyenhm@ucarb.com * mikenguyen@sprintmail.com (personal) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 12:30:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14188 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14176 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA22131; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022127; Mon Mar 16 12:29:46 1998 Message-ID: <350D8AAF.3F54BC7E@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:25:19 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" CC: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 References: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > What's the rationale for having the SJIS and EUC locale support in > libxpg4 instead of libc? > > I want X programs to work in any locale. Making me drag in a static > setlocale w/ SJIS/EUC support from libxpg4 instead of just getting it > from shared libc seems, er, shall we say strange. > > (I had sent this question once before over the weekend, and it never > came back, so I think you did lose some files when freefall went down.) > > -- > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY > X Architect, The Open Group X Project Team > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I originally had it in but someone else ('ache' I think) moved it.. I think the multibyte stuff is conditional for compatibility reasons. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 12:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@link2.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17024 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:40:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from insane@oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) Message-ID: <19980316123822.58811@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 12:38:22 -0800 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. References: <20575.890064326@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 06:23:52PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.5-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just adding my 2 cents.. I would love to here about the choices that went into making wcarchive. Ron On Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 06:23:52PM +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * A corporate or individual profile or interview > > > > An article about an organization using FreeBSD for an interesting or > > innovative application. Or an interview of a FreeBSD developer and > > the projects under development. > > I'd love to see an interview with you and DG on history and details of > setting up the wcarchive. This would make an interesting reading > especially for ISPs... > > Andrzej Bialecki > > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 13:13:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25091 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25026 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA01220 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001212; Mon Mar 16 13:12:32 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA26173 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:12:32 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199803162112.NAA26173@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: DIVERT Sockets... (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:12:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone who knows more about TCP + source routing than me take a look at the issue raised below? Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 01:01:51 -0600 (CST) From: tqbf@secnet.com To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: DIVERT Sockets... Hey there. I have a question, hopefully not a heads-up: IP "divert" processing in ip_input() causes IP option processing to be skipped (basically, "divert" sockets are just a "goto" in the IP processing code that say "process this packet as if it was ours"). I am wondering if y'all see the same problem I do here, which is that IPDIVERT doesn't reset ip_nhops to zero before "accepting" packets for input. Recall that "ip_nhops" specifies whether the current packet causes a source route to be recorded; if ip_nhops is nonzero, ip_srcroute will return a reversed recorded route from the last accepted source-routed packet. Each time a new valid packet is accepted, "ip_nhops" is supposed to be reset to zero. The TCP input code blindly calls ip_srcroute() when a connection is being established to see if the SYN connection-soliciting packet was source routed; if it was, it uses the recorded route for all future packets for this connection. Because of the IPDIVERT hack, it seems to me that anyone can send a source routed packet right before a diverted SYN packet, and that SYN packet will follow the reverse of the source route. On networks that don't drop source routed packets, this would allow remote attackers to hijack arbitrary connections remotely without direct network access to the path those connections take. I don't know enough about IPDIVERT to tell if this is the case; I am trying to wade through the code to see if divert sockets modifies IP output not to send source routed packets. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas H. Ptacek Secure Networks, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.enteract.com/~tqbf "mmm... sacrilicious" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 13:29:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soccer.inetspace.com (soccer.inetspace.com [206.50.163.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29615 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kgor@soccer.inetspace.com) Received: (from kgor@localhost) by soccer.inetspace.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00882; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:29:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kgor) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:29:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803162129.PAA00882@soccer.inetspace.com> From: "Kent S. Gordon" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What needs to be changed in the kernel config file to increase SYSV shared memory available? What is the current limit on SYSV shared memory? I looked quickly at the kernel sources but could not find what needs to be changed. -- Kent S. Gordon Architect iNetSpace Co. voice: (972)851-3494 fax:(972)702-0384 e-mail:kgor@inetspace.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 13:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04114 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04047 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:49:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00396 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:51:08 GMT Message-ID: <00bb01bd5124$f230d140$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: DPT driver? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:46:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i'm a little confused by the DPT driver, other than examining the source :) is there any documentation on it? (i'm a scsi and RAID newbie, so please excuse this) a few simple questions about dpt0 that were unclear in the LINT file: 1) is it stable? 2) does it have an dependancies i should know about? 3) does it "work" with all PCI scsi cards, or only specific hardware? 4) a terse explanation on setting it up? thank you, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 13:56:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06117 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06076 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07651 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:55:59 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA01017 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:27:35 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:27:35 +0100 (MET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then it refuses to start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. Doing a ktrace gives: 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 This repeats forever. FWIW this happens both with and without the ISDN/ppp link to the Internet. Any clues? _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 14:40:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16402 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16327 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ljo@Venus.mcs.net) Received: from Venus.mcs.net (ljo@Venus.mcs.net [192.160.127.92]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA08557; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:40:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ljo@localhost) by Venus.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA11304; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:40:27 -0600 (CST) From: Lars Jonas Olsson Message-Id: <199803162240.QAA11304@Venus.mcs.net> Subject: Working, multi-threaded LDAP(slapd)? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:40:27 -0600 (CST) Cc: ljo@mcs.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying to use slapd (stand-alone LDAP daemon) from ports/net/ldap on FreeBSD current. It goes into a loop (there is a PR about this). It also seems that there is no multi-threading support enabled in the port. As there has been substantial discussion here about using LDAP for administration does anyone have a working version? I was planning to use slapd with imapd and ipopd as mail server for netscape, eudora, and outlook express clients. Has anyone used slapd as directory server for email clients? Seems like a good topic for a section/article in handbook or newsletter. Jonas Olsson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 14:54:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20057 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20045 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17694; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:53:52 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA05558; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:53:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980316235350.62977@follo.net> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:53:50 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPT driver? References: <00bb01bd5124$f230d140$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <00bb01bd5124$f230d140$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu>; from Alfred Perlstein on Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 04:46:14PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 04:46:14PM -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > a few simple questions about dpt0 that were unclear in the LINT file: > 1) is it stable? Should be, according to the author :-) (I'm still waiting for a card to test it, so I can't say anything yet. Thanks to you-know-who-you-are for offering it :-) > 2) does it have an dependancies i should know about? A card? > 3) does it "work" with all PCI scsi cards, or only specific hardware? The DPT is a specific SCSI chipset (or at least a specific vendor). The DPT driver only work for those cards. The vendor has a web-page at "http://www.dpt.com/". Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 15:16:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:16:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25184 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id AAA23658 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:15:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta2/keltia-2.14/nospam) id XAA22706; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:54:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980316235442.A22645@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:54:42 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD hackers list References: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 08:27:35PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4121 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Wilko Bulte: > I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then it refuses to > start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. If you look into the mail archives, you'll find that either removing the "preferences.js" file from ~/.netscape or adding the following line into the "netscape" shell script should fix it. Don't ask me why though. -=-=-=- export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null -=-=-=- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar 1 18:50:39 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 15:17:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:17:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25308 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id AAA23679 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:16:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta2/keltia-2.14/nospam) id XAA22722; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:56:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980316235635.B22645@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:56:37 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199803162129.PAA00882@soccer.inetspace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.4i In-Reply-To: <199803162129.PAA00882@soccer.inetspace.com>; from Kent S. Gordon on Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 03:29:07PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4121 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Kent S. Gordon: > What is the current limit on SYSV shared memory? I looked quickly at > the kernel sources but could not find what needs to be changed. The following is extracted from my kernel config. file. You can find similar constant for increasing # of semaphores/message queues. -=-=-=- options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "SHMMAXPGS=1024" # 4096 KB of sharable memory -=-=-=- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar 1 18:50:39 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 15:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04340 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:33:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garman.dyn.ml.org (pm106-02.dialip.mich.net [192.195.231.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04194 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garman@earthling.net) From: garman@earthling.net Received: (qmail 11120 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Mar 1998 23:33:18 -0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:33:18 -0500 To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? References: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980316235442.A22645@keltia.freenix.fr> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.58 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: garman@earthling.net X-Phase-Of-Moon: The Moon is Waning Gibbous (93% of Full) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 2.2-STABLE In-Reply-To: <19980316235442.A22645@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Mar 16, 1998 23:54:42 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert writes: > > If you look into the mail archives, you'll find that either removing the > "preferences.js" file from ~/.netscape or adding the following line into > the "netscape" shell script should fix it. > More simply, every time this happened to me, I found that removing the line: user_pref("browser.startup.license_accepted", "1000 4.04"); works. Why? I dunno. Of course it has the side-effect of making you 'accept' the licence agreement again. But otherwise, no bad effects... enjoy -- Jason Garman http://garman.home.ml.org/ Student, University of Maryland garman@earthling.net "Life's not fair... But the root password helps" -- BOFH To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 15:48:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12466 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frodo.epigram.com (gated.epigram.com [209.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12429 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@epigram.com) Received: from epigram.com (GLINKA.epigram.com [10.100.100.218]) by frodo.epigram.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14494 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:48:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <350DBA02.2293A322@epigram.com> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:47:14 -0800 From: Brandon Huey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.6-BETA w/DPT RAID successes? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone successfully built a kernel with the dpt0 driver? Perhaps someone knows of a location that has boot floppy images? ftp-ing simon-shapiro.org reveals a crash/floppies directory, but it is empty. -bh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 16:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16538 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16530 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27113; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:08:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:39:28 +0100." <199803161739.SAA20545@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:08:40 -0800 Message-ID: <27110.890093320@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Indeed. I wasn't asking for people to send me requests for what *I* should write for the newsletter, I was asking for people to write stuff for the newsletter. :-) Jordan > > I'd love to see an interview with you and DG on history and details of > > setting up the wcarchive. This would make an interesting reading > > especially for ISPs... > > i think instead that a few things about PicoBSD would be great.... > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 18:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22809 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22756 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:23:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 21088 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 02:30:30 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 02:30:30 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00bb01bd5124$f230d140$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:30:29 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Alfred Perlstein , FreeBSD-DOC@FreeBSD.ORG, Jordan Hubbard Subject: RE: DPT driver? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I apologize for the cross posting, but I get this question at least once a week. To save bandwidth and my cellular phone bill, can it be considreted for inclusion in the FreeBSD handbook? Jordan, Are you interested in this info as a core for an article for the newsletter? On 16-Mar-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > i'm a little confused by the DPT driver, other than examining the source >:) > is there any documentation on it? Yup. Try roaming ftp://simon-shapiro.org/crash. If not, It will be in the next patch to the driver. I am giving Julian a bit of rest from my checkins... If you need it soon, let me know. I can post it here, or send it to whoever asks for it. > (i'm a scsi and RAID newbie, so please excuse this) > > a few simple questions about dpt0 that were unclear in the LINT file: > 1) is it stable? More than the LINT kernel :-) It is in heavy production environment for many months. Both 2.2 and 3.0. the 2.2 version is a little more stale, but the DPT interface is virtually identical to 3.0. > 2) does it have an dependancies i should know about? The DPT cards (not the driver) seem to barf at some fx340 motherboards. The driver depends on software interrupts for queue management. It comes with its own version on 2.2, and uses the CAM equivalent in 3.0. No other dependencies exist today. Ooops. The 2.2 driver only supports 3.0, not 2.2 (FreeBSD, that is). > 3) does it "work" with all PCI scsi cards, or only specific hardware? ALL DPT SCSI cards, ISA=EISA=PCI, use exactly the same protocol and appear to the driver to be the same. The only difference is in the bus probing and initialization. Matthew Dodd wrote EISA support for 3.0 and that was integrated with the driver and added to the normal 3.0-current source tree a week ago (Thanx Matthew, Thanx Julian). > 4) a terse explanation on setting it up? The white paper explains it. So does my web page http://simon-shapiro.org, but here is an outline (yet again): a. Use the supplied DOS floppies to run dptmgr/fw0. b. Use Other O/S, or Linux c. Set up your RAID arrays to your heart's content (http://www.dpt.com contains some good advise on that. So is the manual that comes wit hthe card. d. Save your setup and exit. e. Your RAID arrays will appear to the BIOS and ANY O/S you boot as single disks. (a whole array looks like one large disk. Example: PM3334UW with SX4030/2 has a total of three SCSI busses. You have a RS/7UWR disk bay with seven 9GB drives. You also have two 2GB drives you found in the closet and want to use for a fault-resistant boot disk. The 7 disks will be used to ccreate a fault tolerant mail server, so they will go into /var/qmail, as one giant filesystem. You want the utmost in reliability and zero downtime. We will compromise a bit on that, to make the example more ``interesting''. * Using the internal ribbon cable that came with your controller, you hook up the two junk drives to bus 0. You set them up as target ID 0, and target ID 1. They will be known as B0-0, and B0-1 * You split the RS/7UWR cabinet into two busses. 3 disks on one, four on the other. the disks will thus be known as B1-0, B1-1, B1-2, B1-3 and B2-0, B2-1, B2-2. * Boot DOS, put Floppy 1 in the drive and type dptmgr/fw0 * In the DPTMGR, create an array, optimize for speed, select drives B0-0 and B0-1, Done Adding drives. Select the File option, Set System Parameters. Since this is a RAID-1, you are given a chance to copy one drive on another or wipe them both clean. Choose what you like (Yes, this is a good trick to duplicate completely installed systems). While the array builds (Blue flag, as opposed to Black), double-click on the array icon, and on Name. Set the array name to something you will recognize and the boss will be impressed/confused by. * Now build another RAID array, Optimize for Capacity, choose a stripe size of 32KB or larger (it depends on application types, amount of cache, the position of the moon in the southern hemisphere sky and few other things). * Add to this array, IN THIS ORDER, driver b1-0, b2-0, b1-1, b2-1, b1-2, b2-2. * File->Set System parameters. While the array builds, change its name as above. * Select the leftover drive (should be b2-3, right?). Click on Make Hot Spare. Again File->Save System Parameters. If the drive is the same or larger capacity as the other drives in your system (which are hooked up to that one DPT), the arrays will bet a little ``Red-Cross'' in their icon. This means they are protected by a HotSpare; If a drive failed, the hot spare will replace the bad drive automagically. when you put a new drive instead of the dead one, it (the replacement) will become the new hot spare. No user intervention needed. * Go home. Building an array of this size takes some time. If you are brave (DPT support says ``stupid), you can use the /nobuild option to dptmgr. Arrays build very quickly, but... * Let's say, you called the internal RAID-1 array Foo-Boot, and the big array Foo-Mail. When you boot your system, both the BIOS, and the DPT driver (independantly of each other), will report that you have ``only'' TWO disk drives in the system. If you used the DPT kernel config file from ftp://simon-shapiro.org/crash, you will have an sd0 which will be a disk model Foo-Boot, Vendor DPT, revision 7LR (or whatever your firmware is), and an sd16 which will be model Foo-Mail, Vendor DPT, version 7LR. there is no way, in the standard driver, for you to see the host spare (B2-3), nor can you see the individual disks. Moreover, you will not get timeouts, bus errors, resets, read/write errors, or any such thing into Unix, unless more than one drive failed in an array. * Install whatever O/S you choose, slicing, partitioning, any way you choose. You will probably use sd0, the Foo-Boot disk for most filesystems, and sd16 for /var/qmail. * If you loose a drive, the DPT will beep angily. Once it calms down, it will emit a pattern of beeps to indicate what's fgoing on. I modify all my boards to bring the 10 diagnostics LEDs to the fron of the machine. Do NOT do that, unless you are really good at surface mount soldering and do not care about the lifetime warranty on your $900 controller. Configuring a DPT for multi-initiator, High Availability Server exceeds the space in this note. There is a forthcoming paper describing that too. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 18:31:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24584 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:31:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22153; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:31:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022130; Mon Mar 16 19:31:38 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28542; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:31:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803170231.TAA28542@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Working, multi-threaded LDAP(slapd)? To: ljo@mcs.net (Lars Jonas Olsson) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:31:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ljo@mcs.net In-Reply-To: <199803162240.QAA11304@Venus.mcs.net> from "Lars Jonas Olsson" at Mar 16, 98 04:40:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been trying to use slapd (stand-alone LDAP daemon) from > ports/net/ldap on FreeBSD current. It goes into a loop (there is a PR > about this). It also seems that there is no multi-threading support > enabled in the port. > As there has been substantial discussion here about using LDAP for > administration does anyone have a working version? The FreeBSD LDAP port is unusably broken. Instead, you should use: http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.LDAP.txt http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.LDAP.gz They require that you are running -current or -stable with the recent pthreads changes by Jeremy Allison and myself (checked in by Julian Elisher in both trees). If using -stable, this means -stable *after* the last release (ie: the fixes are not yet on a CDROM). You must apply these patches to the code from the University of Michigan code, which should be unmodified (ie: do *not* use the FreeBSD port). If you want SSL support, you must seperately apply the SSL patch from www.critical-angle.com; all the other patches from there are included in my patch (basically, they were like 386BSD patches: conflicts, no organization, no dependency ordering, etc.). > I was planning to use slapd with imapd and ipopd as mail server for > netscape, eudora, and outlook express clients. Has anyone used slapd > as directory server for email clients? Seems like a good topic for a > section/article in handbook or newsletter. I have used it for the Windows clients. The Macintosh clients tend to fail because they incorrectly set their base location. This is a well known problem with almost all Macintosh LDAP clients. The only real fix is to install a PC. ;^). (There... that ought to tweak the weenies into fixing their clients to conform to standards). Someone with commit privs needs to compile this code and make it a package... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 18:42:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:42:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from martini.ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp (martini.ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp [133.1.12.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27142 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:42:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by martini.ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp (8.8.8/3.6W/ICS-2.2.2v7-44BSD) with ESMTP id LAA03160; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:42:35 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:34:46 -0500" <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> References: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93b25 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) X-FaceAnim: (-O_O-)(O_O- )(_O- )(O- )(- -)( -O)( -O_)( -O_O)(-O_O-) X-Fingerprint: 0C AC 93 FC E3 9D 9E 5B 3D B8 AC 5C 4A 79 D8 A6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980317114231J.matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:42:31 +0900 From: Makoto MATSUSHITA (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF4kRCQ3JD8kXiQzJEgbKEI=?=) X-Dispatcher: imput version 980302 Lines: 16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry I do not know why multibyte-supporting locale is out of libc... k.keithley> What's the rationale for having the SJIS and EUC locale k.keithley> support in libxpg4 instead of libc? IMHO, we should link with xpg4 library when linking X libraries to compile X application. Many FreeBSD ports application tries to link so, especially in japanese and x11 category (these applications try to link xpg4 library manually; ahh, where the imake framework has gone :-) How about changing $XTOP/X11/lib/config/FreeBSD.cf to add -lxpg4 to linker's option, when the FreeBSD's version >= 2.2 ? -- - Makoto `MAR' MATSUSHITA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 19:16:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jazz.snu.ac.kr (jazz.snu.ac.kr [147.46.59.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02224 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr) Received: (from junker@localhost) by jazz.snu.ac.kr (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17581; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:13:35 +0900 (KST) To: Makoto MATSUSHITA (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJF4kRCQ3JD8kXiQzJEgbKEI=?=) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 References: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> <19980317114231J.matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp> From: CHOI Junho Date: 17 Mar 1998 12:13:34 +0900 In-Reply-To: Makoto MATSUSHITA's message of Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:42:31 +0900 Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am EUC people, too. Makoto> Sorry I do not know why multibyte-supporting locale is out Makoto> of libc... I want to know why. stability reason? Makoto> How about changing $XTOP/X11/lib/config/FreeBSD.cf to add Makoto> -lxpg4 to linker's option, when the FreeBSD's version >= Makoto> 2.2 ? I just added '-lxpg4' to #define ExtraLibraries. (I compiled XFree86 again to work with it...) or please merge libc and libxpg4... Now I add setenv LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libxpg4.so.2.0 to my .login or /etc/login.conf(add a 'korean' login class). It doesn't need any recompilation, and works. but when using other LD_PRELOAD or running Linux applications(they don't understand FreeBSD libs, so stop with error) I had a problem. So I made a wrapper(unset LD_PRELOAD) to each Linux application I use. It's uncomportable! (I will be happy if linux emulation loader ignore FreeBSD LD_PRELOAD libraries, or something must be done with libxpg4...) -- ----Cool FreeBSD!----MSX Forever!---J.U.N.K.E.R/Beat Snatchers!---- CHOI Junho http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker Distributed Computing System Lab,CS Dept.,Seoul National Univ., ROK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 20:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13042 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13025; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:17:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04672; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:19:13 GMT Message-ID: <010d01bd515b$2b968340$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , , "Jordan Hubbard" Cc: Subject: Re: DPT driver? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:14:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG for me it was simple, a developer on irc added something to the lint file clarifing things, had this been there my silliness would have never popped up, i've yet to try to use the DTP driver and i do assume some info on usage would be nice in for future efforts (there is no man page) thank you and sorry :) -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Simon Shapiro To: Alfred Perlstein ; FreeBSD-DOC@FreeBSD.ORG ; Jordan Hubbard Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 5:28 PM Subject: RE: DPT driver? >I apologize for the cross posting, but I get this question at least once a >week. To save bandwidth and my cellular phone bill, can it be considreted >for inclusion in the FreeBSD handbook? > >Jordan, Are you interested in this info as a core for an article for the >newsletter? > > >On 16-Mar-98 Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> i'm a little confused by the DPT driver, other than examining the source >>:) >> is there any documentation on it? > >Yup. Try roaming ftp://simon-shapiro.org/crash. If not, It will be in the >next patch to the driver. I am giving Julian a bit of rest from my >checkins... If you need it soon, let me know. I can post it here, or send >it to whoever asks for it. > >> (i'm a scsi and RAID newbie, so please excuse this) >> >> a few simple questions about dpt0 that were unclear in the LINT file: >> 1) is it stable? > >More than the LINT kernel :-) It is in heavy production environment for >many months. Both 2.2 and 3.0. the 2.2 version is a little more stale, >but the DPT interface is virtually identical to 3.0. > >> 2) does it have an dependancies i should know about? > >The DPT cards (not the driver) seem to barf at some fx340 motherboards. >The driver depends on software interrupts for queue management. It comes >with its own version on 2.2, and uses the CAM equivalent in 3.0. No other >dependencies exist today. > >Ooops. The 2.2 driver only supports 3.0, not 2.2 (FreeBSD, that is). > >> 3) does it "work" with all PCI scsi cards, or only specific hardware? > >ALL DPT SCSI cards, ISA=EISA=PCI, use exactly the same protocol and appear >to the driver to be the same. The only difference is in the bus probing >and initialization. Matthew Dodd wrote EISA support for 3.0 and that was >integrated with the driver and added to the normal 3.0-current source tree >a week ago (Thanx Matthew, Thanx Julian). > >> 4) a terse explanation on setting it up? > >The white paper explains it. So does my web page http://simon-shapiro.org, >but here is an outline (yet again): > >a. Use the supplied DOS floppies to run dptmgr/fw0. >b. Use Other O/S, or Linux >c. Set up your RAID arrays to your heart's content (http://www.dpt.com > contains some good advise on that. So is the manual that comes wit hthe > card. >d. Save your setup and exit. >e. Your RAID arrays will appear to the BIOS and ANY O/S you boot as > single disks. (a whole array looks like one large disk. > >Example: PM3334UW with SX4030/2 has a total of three SCSI busses. You > have a RS/7UWR disk bay with seven 9GB drives. You also have two > 2GB drives you found in the closet and want to use for a > fault-resistant boot disk. The 7 disks will be used to ccreate a > fault tolerant mail server, so they will go into /var/qmail, as > one giant filesystem. You want the utmost in reliability and zero > downtime. We will compromise a bit on that, to make the example > more ``interesting''. > >* Using the internal ribbon cable that came with your controller, you hook > up the two junk drives to bus 0. You set them up as target ID 0, and > target ID 1. They will be known as B0-0, and B0-1 > >* You split the RS/7UWR cabinet into two busses. 3 disks on one, four on > the other. the disks will thus be known as B1-0, B1-1, B1-2, B1-3 and > B2-0, B2-1, B2-2. > >* Boot DOS, put Floppy 1 in the drive and type dptmgr/fw0 > >* In the DPTMGR, create an array, optimize for speed, select drives B0-0 > and B0-1, Done Adding drives. Select the File option, Set System > Parameters. Since this is a RAID-1, you are given a chance to copy one > drive on another or wipe them both clean. Choose what you like (Yes, > this is a good trick to duplicate completely installed systems). While > the array builds (Blue flag, as opposed to Black), double-click on the > array icon, and on Name. Set the array name to something you will > recognize and the boss will be impressed/confused by. > >* Now build another RAID array, Optimize for Capacity, choose a stripe > size of 32KB or larger (it depends on application types, amount of cache, > the position of the moon in the southern hemisphere sky and few other > things). > >* Add to this array, IN THIS ORDER, driver b1-0, b2-0, b1-1, b2-1, b1-2, > b2-2. > >* File->Set System parameters. While the array builds, change its name as > above. > >* Select the leftover drive (should be b2-3, right?). Click on Make Hot > Spare. Again File->Save System Parameters. If the drive is the same or > larger capacity as the other drives in your system (which are hooked up > to that one DPT), the arrays will bet a little ``Red-Cross'' in their > icon. This means they are protected by a HotSpare; If a drive failed, > the hot spare will replace the bad drive automagically. when you put a > new drive instead of the dead one, it (the replacement) will become the > new hot spare. No user intervention needed. > > >* Go home. Building an array of this size takes some time. If you are > brave (DPT support says ``stupid), you can use the /nobuild option to > dptmgr. Arrays build very quickly, but... > >* Let's say, you called the internal RAID-1 array Foo-Boot, and the big > array Foo-Mail. When you boot your system, both the BIOS, and the DPT > driver (independantly of each other), will report that you have > ``only'' TWO disk drives in the system. If you used the DPT kernel > config file from ftp://simon-shapiro.org/crash, you will have an sd0 > which will be a disk model Foo-Boot, Vendor DPT, revision 7LR (or > whatever your firmware is), and an sd16 which will be model Foo-Mail, > Vendor DPT, version 7LR. there is no way, in the standard driver, for > you to see the host spare (B2-3), nor can you see the individual disks. > Moreover, you will not get timeouts, bus errors, resets, read/write > errors, or any such thing into Unix, unless more than one drive failed > in an array. > >* Install whatever O/S you choose, slicing, partitioning, any way you > choose. You will probably use sd0, the Foo-Boot disk for most > filesystems, and sd16 for /var/qmail. > >* If you loose a drive, the DPT will beep angily. Once it calms down, it > will emit a pattern of beeps to indicate what's fgoing on. I modify all > my boards to bring the 10 diagnostics LEDs to the fron of the machine. > Do NOT do that, unless you are really good at surface mount soldering and > do not care about the lifetime warranty on your $900 controller. > >Configuring a DPT for multi-initiator, High Availability Server exceeds the >space in this note. There is a forthcoming paper describing that too. > > >---------- > > >Sincerely Yours, > >Simon Shapiro >Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 20:20:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:20:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13449 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-249.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.249]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA25845 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:19:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA22799 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:40:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803170340.VAA22799@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:08:40 PST." <27110.890093320@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:40:46 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > Indeed. I wasn't asking for people to send me requests for what *I* > should write for the newsletter, I was asking for people to write > stuff for the newsletter. :-) > > Jordan OK, don't write anything. Just use your fancy Olympus digital camera and take a picture of the new wcarchive machine. (And then explain how you got the image from the camera into the newsletter.) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 20:53:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19509 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:53:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (Studded@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19463 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from localhost (dougdougdougdoug@localhost) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA12619 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:52:55 GMT (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:52:54 -0800 (PST) From: Studded X-Sender: dougdougdougdoug@dt050n33.san.rr.com To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Patch to install boot.help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It occured to me today that there's no provision to install /boot.help in /usr/src/etc/Makefile. I'm not 100% sure that this is the best place for it, but during my last upgrade on an older system I noticed that it didn't get installed at all. The following patch will do the deed. Doug --- Makefile.Dist Mon Mar 16 20:44:29 1998 +++ Makefile Mon Mar 16 20:44:33 1998 @@ -63,6 +63,9 @@ ( cd ${.CURDIR}/../share/termcap; ${MAKE} etc-termcap ); \ ( cd ${.CURDIR}/../usr.sbin/rmt; ${MAKE} etc-rmt ); \ ( cd ${.CURDIR}/../usr.sbin/sendmail/cf/cf; ${MAKE} etc-sendmail.cf ); \ + ( cd ${.CURDIR}/../sys/i386/boot/biosboot; \ + ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m 644 boot.help \ + ${DESTDIR}/ ); \ pwd_mkdb -p -d ${DESTDIR}/etc ${DESTDIR}/etc/master.passwd; \ ${INSTALL} -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m 555 \ MAKEDEV.local etc.${MACHINE}/MAKEDEV ${DESTDIR}/dev ) -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 21:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:04:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (Studded@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21707 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from localhost (dougdougdougdoug@localhost) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA12657 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:04:28 GMT (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:04:28 -0800 (PST) From: Studded X-Sender: dougdougdougdoug@dt050n33.san.rr.com To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Document NOPERL option Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This option has been requested very often, now that we have it I think we should advertise it. :) Please consider the following patches to /usr/src/etc/make.conf and /usr/src/Makefile. Doug --- make.conf.Dist Mon Mar 16 20:58:07 1998 +++ make.conf Mon Mar 16 21:00:37 1998 @@ -18,6 +18,9 @@ #NOPROFILE= true # Avoid compiling profiled libraries # +# To avoid building the perl in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin +#NOPERL= true +# # To have 'obj' symlinks created in your source directory # (they aren't needed/necessary) #OBJLINK= yes --- Makefile.Dist Mon Mar 16 20:53:47 1998 +++ Makefile Mon Mar 16 20:55:22 1998 @@ -18,6 +18,7 @@ # -DNOGAMES do not go into games subdir # -DNOSHARE do not go into share subdir # -DNOINFO do not make or install info files +# -DNOPERL do not make or install perl # LOCAL_DIRS="list of dirs" to add additional dirs to the SUBDIR list # -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 16 22:07:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03863 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03651 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yEpWR-0002sO-00; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:06:47 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA04109 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:07:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803170607.XAA04109@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cabletron E2010 support in ed? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:07:00 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I have a cabletron E2010 ethernet board. It appears to be based on the CP8290DN series of chips which the ed driver supports. I'm having a tough time getting the card probed. It appears to lock my machine whenever I probe it :-(. A quick grep for cabletron in the sources shows no hits. What's the effort level required to get this card to work? Does anybody know anything about it? Thanks for any hints you can provide... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 04:03:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.unpar.ac.id (proxy.unpar.ac.id [167.205.206.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25371 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:02:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id) Received: from student.unpar.ac.id (210student.unpar.ac.id [10.210.1.3]) by proxy.unpar.ac.id (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08716; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:37:09 +0700 (JAVT) Received: from localhost (1193016@localhost) by student.unpar.ac.id (8.8.5/8.8.5.D) with SMTP id TAA27352; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:02:39 +0700 (JAVT) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:02:38 +0700 (JAVT) From: Thomas Wahyudi <1193016@student.unpar.ac.id> To: aj@gims.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I In-Reply-To: <3509A4FB.CE77F165@gims.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 aj@gims.net wrote: #How do I change the root directory of my ftp daemon. It is currently #pointing to #/var/ftp and I want it to point to /home/ftp. I changed the #/etc/passwd and the /etc/master.passwd file but that doesn't seem to be #it. What file is controling it? have you try using ln -s ? Best regard, from #### # Thomas Wahyudi # # # # 1193016@student.unpar.ac.id # ## ## http://student.unpar.ac.id/~1193016 -=-=-=-=-=PARAHYANGAN UNIVERSITY=-=-=-=-=-=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 04:56:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06401 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:56:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from usgcc.odu.edu (tortola.usgcc.odu.edu [128.82.234.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA06349; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 04:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@usgcc.odu.edu) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by usgcc.odu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11832; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:04:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:04:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Timothy M. Hughes" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone got one of these things to work yet?? I mailed questions@freebsd.org and got a response that it was "probably" a proprietary driver. If you have a driver or have gotten it to work, please email me directly (I dont subscibe). Any help is appreciated. Thanks Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 05:04:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07964 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:04:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA07896; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02316; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:03:32 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA07995; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:26 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980317140326.46869@follo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:26 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Timothy M. Hughes" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Timothy M. Hughes on Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:04:15AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Timothy M. Hughes wrote: > Has anyone got one of these things to work yet?? I mailed > questions@freebsd.org and got a response that it was "probably" a > proprietary driver. If you have a driver or have gotten it to work, > please email me directly (I dont subscibe). RealTek is fairly good at supporting free OSes (even sometimes writing drivers themselves). I don't think you should have a problem getting info from them, but it is probably correct that it is a properitary chip (probably with an almost complete clone of the interface of a popular chipset, so making drivers work should be easy). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 05:06:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08415 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:05:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25195; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:05:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:05:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Thomas Wahyudi <1193016@student.unpar.ac.id> cc: aj@gims.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Thomas Wahyudi wrote: > On Fri, 13 Mar 1998 aj@gims.net wrote: > > #How do I change the root directory of my ftp daemon. It is currently > #pointing to > #/var/ftp and I want it to point to /home/ftp. I changed the > #/etc/passwd and the /etc/master.passwd file but that doesn't seem to be > #it. What file is controling it? > have you try using ln -s ? Won't work once it's chroot'd. You have to make ~ftp be /home/ftp, and USE VIPW!! 10 to 1, you didn't remake the hashes after you changed it. do this (assuming you changed the home dir) # cd /etc # pwd_mkdb -p master.passwd And it should work *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 05:11:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09687 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09677 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09341; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:13:10 GMT Message-ID: <008a01bd51a5$c0ac1a40$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Timothy M. Hughes" , Subject: Re: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:08:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well this is just an assumption on my part, but as most PCI cards are automagically :) configured by the kernel, and i think all ethernet cards are included in the GENERIC kernel, i doubt that the card is supported if it has not come up in your dmesg. -Alfred P.S. if anyone has any more info on this please e-mail the Timothy at: tim@usgcc.odu.edu because he is not on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Timothy M. Hughes To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG ; freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG ; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 4:01 AM Subject: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card >Has anyone got one of these things to work yet?? I mailed >questions@freebsd.org and got a response that it was "probably" a >proprietary driver. If you have a driver or have gotten it to work, >please email me directly (I dont subscibe). > >Any help is appreciated. > >Thanks > > Tim > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 05:39:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13471 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA13465 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:39:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 8:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22330; Tue, 17 Mar 98 08:38:02 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA09705; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:37:42 -0500 Message-Id: <19980317083742.27428@ct.picker.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:37:42 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list , garman@earthling.net, Ollivier Robert Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? Mail-Followup-To: Wilko Bulte , FreeBSD hackers list , garman@earthling.net, Ollivier Robert References: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803161927.UAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 08:27:35PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte: |I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then it refuses to |start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. | | 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) | 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 | 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) | 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN | 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 ... | |This repeats forever. FWIW this happens both with and without the ISDN/ppp |link to the Internet. Ollivier Robert: |export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null garman@earthling.net: |More simply, every time this happened to me, I found that removing the line: | |user_pref("browser.startup.license_accepted", "1000 4.04"); FWIW I do both of these and still get this SIGALRM loop every so often. Seem to help but they doen't cure it. (I wonder if running Linux Netscape under emulation works better) Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 06:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18537 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA18504 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Tue Mar 17 09:00 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA01073 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:03:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:03:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Can someone recommend a good reading about programming PCI things ? I know that it's possible to look at drivers but reading book is simpler and may give more background information. The second question is related. Do those 4-port FastEthernet cards use separate interrupt per each port ? Is it possible to make them using one interrupt ? Thanks! Serge Babkin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 07:31:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arg1.demon.co.uk (arg1.demon.co.uk [194.222.34.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01925; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arg@arg1.demon.co.uk) Received: (from arg@localhost) by arg1.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15378; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:31:20 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:31:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Gordon X-Sender: arg@server.arg.sj.co.uk To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Timothy M. Hughes" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <19980317140326.46869@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:04:15AM -0500, Timothy M. Hughes wrote: > > Has anyone got one of these things to work yet?? I mailed > > questions@freebsd.org and got a response that it was "probably" a > > proprietary driver. If you have a driver or have gotten it to work, > > please email me directly (I dont subscibe). > > RealTek is fairly good at supporting free OSes (even sometimes writing > drivers themselves). > > I don't think you should have a problem getting info from them, but it > is probably correct that it is a properitary chip (probably with an > almost complete clone of the interface of a popular chipset, so making > drivers work should be easy). Unlike the 8019/8029 (which are NE2000 clones), the 8129/8139 appear to be their own design and not compatible with anything else. However, datasheets that look complete enough to write a driver are available on their website (www.realtek.com.tw), and there also exists a Linux driver to crib from (see http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/100mbs.html ) [Sorry if you see two copies of this - I think I killed the one with an incorrect URL, but it may have escaped] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 08:40:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19057 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20873; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:36:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "crab.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd020871; Tue Mar 17 08:36:34 1998 Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by crab.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id IAA00883; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <199803171636.IAA00883@crab.whistle.com> Subject: Re: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at "Mar 17, 98 09:03:27 am" To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:36:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL29 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sbabkin@dcn.att.com writes: | The second question is related. Do those 4-port FastEthernet cards | use separate interrupt per each port ? Is it possible to make | them using one interrupt ? This is a function of the BIOS, setup your BIOS to use only one interrupt but why would you want to do that. Here we use 3 quad ethernet cards in a few servers. I just setup the BIOS not to use the interrupts that are being used with ISA and then let it sort things out. I did have some trouble with early BIOS's on the ASUS XP55T2P4 motherboards but the newer ones work just fine. The problem was that with all the cards in the machine the BIOS would hang at PNP initialization. Another issue I've had with the Adaptec cards 2143 based & Quad 10/100 cards is that I need to do a tcpdump on the interface to get the card to work. The scenario is - ping to host (doesn't work) - tcpdump -i - the ping now starts to works. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 10:27:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13209 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13122 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25623; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:27:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:27:32 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Studded cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Patch to install boot.help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG By the way, I noticed a problem with /boot.help -- when I type "?" at the boot: prompt to see what kernels I have available, boot.help scrolls it off the screen. Should I send in a pr? Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22644 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:13:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08592; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd008562; Tue Mar 17 13:13:33 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19881; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:13:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803172013.NAA19881@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:13:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at Mar 17, 98 09:03:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can someone recommend a good reading about programming PCI things ? > I know that it's possible to look at drivers but reading book is > simpler and may give more background information. PCI System Architecture MindShare, Inc. Tom Shanley / Don Anderson ISBN: 0-201-40993-3 URL: http://cseng.aw.com/bookdetail.qry?ISBN=0%2D201%2D40993%2D3&ptype=0 Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:14:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:14:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22917 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:14:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAB08909; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd008884; Tue Mar 17 13:14:39 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19909; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:14:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803172014.NAA19909@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards To: ambrisko@whistle.com (Doug Ambrisko) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:14:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803171636.IAA00883@crab.whistle.com> from "Doug Ambrisko" at Mar 17, 98 08:36:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Another issue I've had with the Adaptec cards 2143 based & Quad 10/100 cards > is that I need to do a tcpdump on the interface to get the card to work. > The scenario is > - ping to host (doesn't work) > - tcpdump -i > - the ping now starts to works. This looks like a register isn't being set in normal mode that needs setting, but that it's set (or reset) by promiscuous mode. I think this is probably a driver bug. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23384 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23317 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 13296 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 20:23:07 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 20:23:06 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <350DBA02.2293A322@epigram.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Brandon Huey Subject: RE: 2.2.6-BETA w/DPT RAID successes? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Mar-98 Brandon Huey wrote: > Has anyone successfully built a kernel with the dpt0 driver? > Perhaps someone knows of a location that has boot floppy images? > > ftp-ing simon-shapiro.org reveals a crash/floppies directory, but it is > empty. I am so bad about it. My sincere apologies. Try sendero.simon-shapiro.org. In /FreeBSD there are several 2.2 and 3.0 images. I am adding 2 more right this minute. The latest 2.2 will be one built from the 2.2 checked-in sources, not from my local patches. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:18:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24249 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24158 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 14270 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 20:25:31 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 20:25:31 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <27110.890093320@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:25:31 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, (Andrzej Bialecki) , Luigi Rizzo Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17-Mar-98 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Indeed. I wasn't asking for people to send me requests for what *I* > should write for the newsletter, I was asking for people to write > stuff for the newsletter. :-) How about the piece on setting up DPT RAID I sent you? You did not have to write that one :-) Only re-write it in English, perhaps... Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:20:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25317 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA25135 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:20:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 11773 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 20:20:42 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 20:20:42 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980316235350.62977@follo.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:20:42 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: DPT driver? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Alfred Perlstein Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Mar-98 Eivind Eklund wrote: .. > The DPT is a specific SCSI chipset (or at least a specific vendor). > The DPT driver only work for those cards. The vendor has a web-page > at "http://www.dpt.com/". A bit of background; Most DPt PCi cards actually have a Qlogic chip burried within. I do not know of any way of getting to them from the system bus. The way we talk to the DPT card, is via a protocol called EATA. It is an Extended ATA, and an ANSI standard. The protocol is basically a DMA arrangement of mailboxes. The next patch to the DPT driver will include in usr.sbin/dpt, a file called DPTdesign.{lyx,ps}. There is more information there. Unlike most/many other SCSI HBA vendors, ALL DPT cards since the mid 1980's use this very same protocol. The next generation cards speak I2O and this will be available to FreeBSD too. Once I get the card & docs to write the drivers (which are ``on the way''). ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:33:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01020 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 7190 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 20:13:10 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 20:13:10 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980316235635.B22645@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:13:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Ollivier Robert Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Mar-98 Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Kent S. Gordon: >> What is the current limit on SYSV shared memory? I looked quickly at >> the kernel sources but could not find what needs to be changed. > > The following is extracted from my kernel config. file. You can find > similar constant for increasing # of semaphores/message queues. > > -=-=-=- > options SYSVSHM > options SYSVSEM > options SYSVMSG > options "SHMMAXPGS=1024" # 4096 KB of sharable memory This works up to a point. What about 256MB of shared memory? 512MB? Yes, folks, this IS a valid and useful question. Hint: The discussion that will undoubtedly follow, should be diverted to freebsd-database. I managed to get up to about 7,000 PostgreSQL buffers with: in sys/i386/conf: NOMIS-smp:options "SHMMAX=(SHMMAXPGS*PAGE_SIZE+1)" NOMIS-smp:options SHMMAXPGS=16385 NOMIS-smp:options SYSVSHM And in sys/i386/include: Index: vmparam.h =================================================================== RCS file: /Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS/src/sys/i386/include/vmparam.h,v retrieving revision 1.29 diff -c -r1.29 vmparam.h *** vmparam.h 1998/02/23 07:42:40 1.29 --- vmparam.h 1998/03/15 19:53:17 *************** *** 52,58 **** /* * Virtual memory related constants, all in bytes */ ! #define MAXTSIZ (16UL*1024*1024) /* max text size */ #ifndef DFLDSIZ #define DFLDSIZ (64UL*1024*1024) /* initial data size lim it */ #endif --- 52,58 ---- /* * Virtual memory related constants, all in bytes */ ! #define MAXTSIZ (32UL*1024*1024) /* max text size */ #ifndef DFLDSIZ #define DFLDSIZ (64UL*1024*1024) /* initial data size lim it */ #endif *************** *** 117,123 **** /* virtual sizes (bytes) for various kernel submaps */ #ifndef VM_KMEM_SIZE ! #define VM_KMEM_SIZE (12 * 1024 * 1024) #endif /* --- 117,123 ---- /* virtual sizes (bytes) for various kernel submaps */ #ifndef VM_KMEM_SIZE ! #define VM_KMEM_SIZE (64 * 1024 * 1024) #endif /* Beyond that, things got ugly. We need David's input on how to go larger. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:34:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01559 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01541 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02816; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:33:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki), Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: 2nd Newsletter (finally!) due to go to press in 10 days. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:25:31 PST." Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:33:00 -0800 Message-ID: <2813.890166780@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How about the piece on setting up DPT RAID I sent you? You did not have to > write that one :-) Hmmmm? I don't have anything like that in my pending folder. Are you sure I got it? Can you please resubmit it? Thanks! If it covers some of the performance benefits as well (don't forget the intended audience of the newsletter - it's not just going to be technically savvy folk) that would be really cool and I'd be more than happy to publish it. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 12:46:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06631; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gabor@acm.org) Received: from [144.92.209.37] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id OAA31720 (8.8.6/50); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:46:18 -0600 Message-ID: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:48:56 -0600 From: Gabor Kincses X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Thinkpad and ppbus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to get my parallel port ZIP drive working with the new ppbus driver set, but I'm stuck. Here's the relevant portion of dmesg: ppc0 at 0x3bc irq 7 flags 0x4 on isa ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in EPP mode (EPP 1.9) ppi0: on ppbus 0 plip0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: on ppbus 0 nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port vpo0: on ppbus 0 vpo0 waiting for scsi devices to settle npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Could an increased timeout value be necessary for this box (755CX, fall 1995)? Also, after the vpo lines show up, the console goes blank, until switching to ttyv1 and back to ttyv0. Then the background is bright red. I also had to hack syscons.h to a 37x100 console. -- Gabor Kincses (gabor@acm.org) FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE (early March) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 14:03:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02964 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21409; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <350EF342.819B7D97@dal.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:03:46 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > Actually, there have been enough of these reports that I > seriously suspect that fdimage simply isn't working correctly on > some machines. Is it possible to fix something up so that fdimage won't try to write the image if it wasn't transferred in binary mode? This would eliminate about 80% of the questions about this in -questions. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 15:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA23534 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:18:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22816 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:18:04 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA04783 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:11:14 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803172311.AAA04783@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: want to trade: DEFPA FDDI cards To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:11:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry for a slight abuse of -hackers but: I want to trade my 2 Digital DEFPA FDDI boards for something that is more directly useful to me: I'm looking for a Pentium P233mmx, 32Mbyte 60ns EDO SIMMs. Also interesting might be a SCSI CDwriter (should work with FreeBSD of course.. ;-) Both DEFPA are SAS Fibre versions: fpa0 rev 1 int a irq 15 on pci0:9 fpa0: DEC DEFPA PCI FDDI SAS Controller fpa0: FDDI address 00:00:f8:81:bc:90, FW=3.10, HW=1, SMT V7.2 fpa0: FDDI Port = S (PMD = ANSI Multi-Mode) Work just fine, one is in my FreeBSD box, the other in an Alpha running NetBSD. Second hand pricing for DEFPAs seem to in the US$ 500 - 900 range, so I suppose this could work out. Please reply directly to me, not to the list Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 15:33:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from goliath.camtech.com.au (goliath.camtech.net.au [203.5.73.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26635 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:32:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from newton@camtech.com.au) Received: from sebastion.sa.camtech.com.au (sebastion.sa.camtech.com.au [203.28.3.2]) by goliath.camtech.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA06831 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:00:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by sebastion.sa.camtech.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.7) id KAA04252 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:06:28 +1030 (CST) Received: from slingshot(192.168.1.2) by sebastion via smap (V2.0) id xma004250; Wed, 18 Mar 98 10:06:26 +1030 Received: from frenzy.ct (newton@frenzy.ct [192.168.4.65]) by slingshot.camtech.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA23864 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:59:33 +1030 From: Mark Newton Received: (from newton@localhost) by frenzy.ct (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26028 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:00:51 +1030 (CDT) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:00:51 +1030 (CDT) Message-Id: <199803172330.KAA26028@frenzy.ct> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BSDI executables Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm off-list at the moment, so please be gentle when replying :-) I've told a colleague that the -Q option to ld still works under 2.2.5, and will generate an executable which stands a better-than-even chance of running under BSD/OS 2.0 from BSDI. Have I mislead my colleague? I don't have a BSDI system nearby to check, so all I have is the manpage, which could be out of date (especially with the way we and BSDI have tended to follow a "MAGIC-of- the-month" style development rationale :-) As a supplementary question, does said executable have to be statically linked? If any part of BSDI compatibility was going to fall over I'd guess it'd be that... Any other pitfalls with building under FreeBSD and running under BSDI? [ we have a commercial application here which will run on lots of platforms; we're working out a least-effort path for building it ] - mark --- Mark Newton Email: newton@communica.com.au Systems Engineer and Senior Trainer Phone: +61-8-8303-3300 Communica Systems, a member of the Fax: +61-8-8303-4403 CAMTECH group of companies WWW: http://www.communica.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 15:45:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29622 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:44:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA17990; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:44:56 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id RAA22194; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:44:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980317174456.58067@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:44:56 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Mark Newton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables References: <199803172330.KAA26028@frenzy.ct> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803172330.KAA26028@frenzy.ct>; from Mark Newton on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 10:00:51AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Static link it and it will run on BSDI 99% of the time. I don't use "-Q". "cc -static" seems to be enough. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 10:00:51AM +1030, Mark Newton wrote: > > I'm off-list at the moment, so please be gentle when replying :-) > > I've told a colleague that the -Q option to ld still works under 2.2.5, > and will generate an executable which stands a better-than-even chance > of running under BSD/OS 2.0 from BSDI. > > Have I mislead my colleague? I don't have a BSDI system nearby to > check, so all I have is the manpage, which could be out of date > (especially with the way we and BSDI have tended to follow a "MAGIC-of- > the-month" style development rationale :-) > > As a supplementary question, does said executable have to be statically > linked? If any part of BSDI compatibility was going to fall over I'd > guess it'd be that... > > Any other pitfalls with building under FreeBSD and running under BSDI? > [ we have a commercial application here which will run on lots of platforms; > we're working out a least-effort path for building it ] > > - mark > > --- > Mark Newton Email: newton@communica.com.au > Systems Engineer and Senior Trainer Phone: +61-8-8303-3300 > Communica Systems, a member of the Fax: +61-8-8303-4403 > CAMTECH group of companies WWW: http://www.communica.com.au > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 15:50:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01744 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01710 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04050; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:49:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Mark Newton cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:00:51 +1030." <199803172330.KAA26028@frenzy.ct> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:49:44 -0800 Message-ID: <4047.890178584@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've told a colleague that the -Q option to ld still works under 2.2.5, > and will generate an executable which stands a better-than-even chance > of running under BSD/OS 2.0 from BSDI. I don't believe that BSD/OS 2.0 is capable of running any sort of FreeBSD binaries now, linked with -Q or otherwise. They've simply done too much to break binary compatability with FreeBSD and my last few attempts to get things working on a BSD/OS 2.0 box led to failure. You'd be better off building under BSD/OS and running with FreeBSD, really, since we've gone to a lot more effort to stay compat than they evidently have. :-( Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 17:13:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from True.Net ([161.196.66.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13839; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:12:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from s2.admin.true.net ([161.196.66.21]) by True.Net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA03939; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:11:01 -0400 (VET) Received: from lemtop.cantv.net (root@localhost) by s2.admin.true.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15916; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:06:49 -0400 (VET) X-BlackMail: 161.196.121.109, lemtop.cantv.net, lem@cantv.net, 161.196.121.109 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 21:06:49(VET) on March 17, 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net> X-Sender: lem@pop.cantv.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:10:35 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Luis_E=2E_Mu=F1oz=22?= Subject: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi There: Is anyone running SMP FreeBSD on Compaq hardware? I would be interested in knowing about your setup as we're considering this alternative. Please reply by direct email. I'll summarize if there's interest. Best regards. -lem To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 18:20:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:20:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mexcom.net (aca1-11.uninet.net.mx [200.38.135.11] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22053; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eculp@ver1.telmex.net.mx) Received: from sunix (telmex@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by ns.mexcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18376; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:17:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <350F3053.46225DB5@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:24:19 -0600 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gabor Kincses CC: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinkpad and ppbus References: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gabor Kincses wrote: > > I'm trying to get my parallel port ZIP drive working with the new ppbus > driver set, but I'm stuck. Here's the relevant portion of dmesg: > > ppc0 at 0x3bc irq 7 flags 0x4 on isa > ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in EPP mode (EPP 1.9) > ppi0: on ppbus 0 > plip0: on ppbus 0 > nlpt0: on ppbus 0 > nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port > vpo0: on ppbus 0 > vpo0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard > npx0: INT 16 interface > > Could an increased timeout value be necessary for this box (755CX, fall > 1995)? > > Also, after the vpo lines show up, the console goes blank, until > switching to ttyv1 and back to ttyv0. Then the background is bright > red. I also had to hack syscons.h to a 37x100 console. > > -- > Gabor Kincses > (gabor@acm.org) I don't see the reference to scbus0 something like scbus0 at vpo0 bus 0 or sd0 something like sd0 at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 sd0 type 0 removable SCSI 2 and a couple of other lines about the media. are scbus0 and sd0 in your kernel config file? controller scbus0 device sd0 in addition to controller ppbus0 controller ppc0 at isa? irq 7 vector ppcintr controller vpo0 at ppbus? device nlpt0 AT ppbus? that seem to be alright. Hope this helps. ed To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 18:48:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (dcarmich.pr.mcs.net [204.95.63.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25524 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by dcarmich.pr.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00264; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:48:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dcarmich) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199803180248.UAA00264@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> Subject: I have a patch for rc.network to allow specifying DHCP in rc.conf To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@itojun.org Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:48:56 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I took the DHCP if part out of /etc/pccard_ether. (Is the dhcpc program normally in /usr/local/sbin?) You may commit this patch if you want to, but tell me first. Please reply to dcarmich@mcs.com directly (I'm not on the mailing list). This patch is against a 2.2.5-RELEASE rc.network file. *** /etc/rc.network.old Tue Mar 17 20:36:22 1998 --- /etc/rc.network Tue Mar 17 20:36:49 1998 *************** *** 31,39 **** . /etc/start_if.${ifn} ${ifn} fi # Do the primary ifconfig if specified ! eval ifconfig_args=\$ifconfig_${ifn} if [ -n "${ifconfig_args}" ] ; then ifconfig ${ifn} ${ifconfig_args} fi # Check to see if aliases need to be added alias=0 --- 31,43 ---- . /etc/start_if.${ifn} ${ifn} fi # Do the primary ifconfig if specified ! eval ifconfig_args=\$ifconfig_${ifn} ! if [ "x$ifconfig_args" = "xDHCP" ] ; then ! /usr/local/sbin/dhcpc $interface ! else if [ -n "${ifconfig_args}" ] ; then ifconfig ${ifn} ${ifconfig_args} + fi fi # Check to see if aliases need to be added alias=0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 19:06:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27073 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA27064 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:06:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Tue Mar 17 13:40 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA19934 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:44:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:44:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: ambrisko@whistle.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:44:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Doug Ambrisko[SMTP:ambrisko@whistle.com] > Thanks! > sbabkin@dcn.att.com writes: > | The second question is related. Do those 4-port FastEthernet cards > | use separate interrupt per each port ? Is it possible to make > | them using one interrupt ? > > This is a function of the BIOS, setup your BIOS to use only one > interrupt but why would you want to do that. Here we use 3 quad > ethernet cards in a few servers. I just setup the BIOS not to use the > interrupts that are being used with ISA and then let it sort things > out. I did have some trouble with early BIOS's on the ASUS XP55T2P4 > Do you have enough interrupts at all ? Because it leaves only 4 interrupts of 16 for keyboard, real-time clock, floppy, hard drive. Thank you for idea! I need only 8 ports :-) And it seems that cards like ASUS TX97 allow to do that. > Another issue I've had with the Adaptec cards 2143 based & Quad 10/100 > cards > is that I need to do a tcpdump on the interface to get the card to > work. > The scenario is > - ping to host (doesn't work) > - tcpdump -i > - the ping now starts to works. > I'm not sure about exactly that card, but in many cases switching the card to promiscuous mode required by tcpdump is made through reset. So perhaps your tcpdump just caused the second soft reset of the card. Serge Babkin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 20:28:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03499 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:28:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA29843; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:45 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Studded cc: Tim Vanderhoek , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 In-Reply-To: <350EF342.819B7D97@dal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > Is it possible to fix something up so that fdimage won't try to write > the image if it wasn't transferred in binary mode? This would eliminate > about 80% of the questions about this in -questions. Offhand, I imagine it would be trivial. Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 20:39:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:39:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04352 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02309; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <350F5000.25547584@dal.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:39:28 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > > > Is it possible to fix something up so that fdimage won't try to write > > the image if it wasn't transferred in binary mode? This would eliminate > > about 80% of the questions about this in -questions. > > Offhand, I imagine it would be trivial. It would be a very welcome addition. :) > Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? A lot of people use weird ftp clients, netscape, or something else that transfers in ascii by default. It would be nice if the thing gave a shiny warning with a hint to the correct procedure. Thanks for the response, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 23:25:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:25:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com (f26.hotmail.com [207.82.250.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20316 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olagappan@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 2318 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 1998 07:24:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19980318072425.2317.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.86.155.91 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [192.86.155.91] From: "muthu olagappan" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: OS features to be done - Help Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:24 PST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Iam working on freebsd since 1997. I would like to contribute to freebsd. I have knowledge of database like Oracle. I would like to what features can be added to FreeBSD, so that database (like Oracle) performance will improve. I also had a look through the tasks to be done, which is listed in documentation part of FreeBSD site. I received a mail from Database Engineer(FreeBSD), pointing that people are working in these areas and it will better if I send a mail to hackers list. Can anybody help me to list out features that can be added to FreeBSD, so that Database performance will improve? Please send mail to olagappan@hotmail.com Regards, Muthu ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 17 23:59:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23868 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:59:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20814; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:59:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803180759.CAA20814@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: OS features to be done - Help In-Reply-To: <19980318072425.2317.qmail@hotmail.com> from muthu olagappan at "Mar 17, 98 11:24:24 pm" To: olagappan@hotmail.com (muthu olagappan) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:59:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG muthu olagappan said: > Hi, > > Iam working on freebsd since 1997. I would like to contribute to > freebsd. I have knowledge of database like Oracle. I would like to what > features can be added to FreeBSD, so that database (like Oracle) > performance will improve. I also had a look through the tasks to be > done, which is listed in documentation part of FreeBSD site. I received > a mail from Database Engineer(FreeBSD), pointing that people are working > in these areas and it will better if I send a mail to hackers list. Can > anybody help me to list out features that can be added to FreeBSD, so > that Database performance will improve? > I have already added AIO and am working with John Birrell to implement kernel threads. Those are the major things to make Oracle work well natively on FreeBSD. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 00:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27911 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:38:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27904 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from thithle.watson.org (thithle.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.8]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id DAA18538 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:38:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:38:20 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@thithle.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: need a reference: data link layer packet transmission Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For performance testing and bug catching, I would like to be able to "replay" tcpdump captured packet streams that were promiscuously sniffed off of a network. Using the existing tcpdump to do this is ideal, as it timestamps, etc. However, I need to be able to resend the packets over the network, and not all of the packets of interest are IP-packets. So I need to be able to manually ship these packets to the link layer for delivery (on a specific device). I know that bpf can be used for transmission as well as reception (bpfwrite), but have had a hard time finding sample source code that uses this transmission; bpf is primarily intended for listening and not deliver. The Stevens UNIX Network Programming book referred me to the rarp source code, and indeed there is a somewhat obfuscated creation of rarp replies there, but I was hoping for something a little more tutorial-like. Similarly, the man pages are not particularly talkative about the functions associated with BPF (although they due cover the structures fairly well). I do not currently have a copy of the original BPF paper, but was wondering if it was available online, or if there were other software packages I could look at for further information. While I am willing to delve into kernel source to find the answer, I would rather see some text or a package that does similar things to what I want to write. Alternatively, if such a package exists that already does what I describe, a URL to that would be great! Thanks in advance, Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 00:56:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:56:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29274 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id LAA18636; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:01:41 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 18634; Wed Mar 18 11:01:14 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199803180900.LAA00222@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: need a reference: data link layer packet transmission To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:58 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Robert Watson" at Mar 18, 98 03:38:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > For performance testing and bug catching, I would like to be able to > "replay" tcpdump captured packet streams that were promiscuously sniffed > off of a network. Using the existing tcpdump to do this is ideal, as it > timestamps, etc. However, I need to be able to resend the packets over > the network, and not all of the packets of interest are IP-packets. So I > need to be able to manually ship these packets to the link layer for > delivery (on a specific device). I know that bpf can be used for > transmission as well as reception (bpfwrite), but have had a hard time > finding sample source code that uses this transmission; bpf is primarily > intended for listening and not deliver. It's quite easy to do with BPF; you just need to write the packets out with the Ethernet frame header at the start. In the Ethernet header, you will need to put the MAC address of the next hop; you don't need to fill in the source address, as this will be done for you. Bear in mind, however, that any packets written out to a BPF device are `retapped', and so you could see them as received packets if sniffing. But in your case, where you seem to just want a replay, this shouldn't be a problem. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 01:02:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA00442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA00436 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA00156; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:24:22 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803180724.IAA00156@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: The nice Problem To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:24:22 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, a friend who is not on this list sent me the attached message. According to him, a process like "main(){while(1);}" run with /usr/bin/nice -20 in the background severely slows down compilations on FreeBSD 2.2.5. He suspects that the reason is, when io bound processes are woken up, the running process with lower priority is somwhow not interrupted. I am not able to reproduce the problem here on 2.2.1 but perhaps i have too much memory for the tests i have run. Can anyone comment on this, and if there is some specific difference between 2.2.1 and later version of the system which could lead to such a behaviour ? thanks luigi > Basic question: In what way does the priority of processes interact > with scheduling ? > or: Why aren't processes scheduled differently based on "IO boundness" ? > > I have some code which compiles in 8 sec (14 sec real time, see below > for details). However, if I at the same time run a CPU bound program, > even with low priority, the compile takes the same time (measured in > cpu time) but more than twice as long in real time. FYI, I run > the following progam to obtain the numbers below: > main(){while(1);} > > Please look at these numbers: > FreeBSD compile > 14.70 real 8.54 user 1.71 sys > FreeBSD compile with process in nice -20 > 48.25 real 8.65 user 1.62 sys > FreeBSD compile with process not in nice > 56.82 real 8.67 user 1.50 sys > > NetBSD compile > 27.16 real 15.16 user 5.38 sys > NetBSD compile with process in nice -20 > 29.11 real 15.28 user 4.30 sys > NetBSD compile with process not in nice > 32.63 real 15.37 user 5.60 sys > > (The machine running NetBSD is one year old, and is only half as fast > as my new machine). > > Under NetBSD, a process with low priority does not affect a process > running in normal priority, the compile is less than 10% slower. > Furthermore, a CPU bound process interferes very little with an IO > bound process (less than 20%); Linux behaves the same way (thanx to > johnm@cs.uit.no) This is, to say it mildly, not the case with FreeBSD. > Since I need to run a process continously in the background (see > http://ashpool.hpl.hp.com/~ecc) I must have a system that will give > priority to "forground" jobs. How do I achieve this om FreeBSD, > something that is normal on all other systems I have used over the > years. > > Context (from dmesg): > FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #0: Mon Mar 16 12:32:57 CET 1998 > tage@dslab5.cs.uit.no:/usr/src/sys/compile/DSLAB5 > CPU: Pentium Pro (300.01-MHz 686-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x634 Stepping=4 > Features=0x80fbff APIC,,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> > real memory = 268435456 (262144K bytes) > > FreeBSD was installed without modification. I run FreeBSD since my > system is a dual-processor box, awaiting upgrade to 3.0 with SMP > support. Please, save me from Linux; NetBSD has no SMP support yet. -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 01:24:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02491; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:24:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03963; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:24:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <350F92D6.57AD3B6C@dal.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:24:38 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src Makefile References: <199803180758.XAA27567@freefall.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > jkh 1998/03/17 23:58:15 PST > > Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_2_2) > . Makefile > Log: > Document NOPERL > Submitted entirely incorrectly in -hackers by: Welp, my apologies (sincerely) to the denizens of -hackers if I've stepped across some sort of boundary. The 14 times I've mentioned this idea in freebsd-stable over the last several weeks went uncommented on so I thought I might get a better response if I did the patch myself and sent it somewhere where discussion about things to go into the code happens. I couldn't imagine that y'all would want to generate a PR on 2 little changes like I proposed last night. I try to avoid submitting PR's for changes I'm not 100% sure should be made. If you'd like to respond either in public or private regarding a more appropriate way to at least generate discussion on my ideas in the future I'm all ears. Meanwhile, thanks for documenting my fuckup in the CVS tree. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 01:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15415 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:57:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15333 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA15537; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980318015654.47826@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:56:54 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: Studded , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 References: <350EF342.819B7D97@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Vanderhoek on Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:24:45PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim Vanderhoek scribbled this message on Mar 17: > Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? because a number of ftp clients (such as ftp in win95 and solaris 2.5) default to ascii as the transfer mode... I think most of it is win95 traffic though... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem Rev/FAX: +1 541 346 9237 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 02:01:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA18507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA18455 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (root@firix [10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id LAA04352; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws6423.gud.siemens.at (ws6423-f.gud.siemens.co.at) by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA250595296; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:01:37 +0100 Received: by ws6423.gud.siemens.at (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA13134; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:58:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:58:47 +0100 From: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.at (marino.ladavac@siemens.at) Message-Id: <199803180958.KAA13134@ws6423.gud.siemens.at> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: The nice Problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: 772nborYi9QoQ8yjefBrCg== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 18 10:06:16 MET 1998 > From: Luigi Rizzo > Subject: The nice Problem > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:24:22 +0100 (MET) > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi, > > a friend who is not on this list sent me the attached message. > According to him, a process like "main(){while(1);}" run with > /usr/bin/nice -20 in the background severely slows down compilations on > FreeBSD 2.2.5. > > He suspects that the reason is, when io bound processes are woken > up, the running process with lower priority is somwhow not interrupted. > I am not able to reproduce the problem here on 2.2.1 but perhaps i have > too much memory for the tests i have run. > > Can anyone comment on this, and if there is some specific difference > between 2.2.1 and later version of the system which could lead to such > a behaviour ? > > thanks > luigi > The traditional UNIX gives the sleeping processes a priority boost so that they get scheduled faster once they are woken up. This tends to lead to thundering hurd problems on severely loaded machines and therefore some vendors have decided to turn the priority boost off by default. For instance, SNI Reliant UNIX has a kernel build option which turns boosting on. With boosting off, the machine actually manages to process more transactions (i.e. random IO does not kill the database). I don't know whether this is done in FreeBSD as well--it is a common optimization measure. Hopefully it can be controlled via sysctl() interface. Aside, the high nice values do not help very much on CPU bound processes. With priority decay, the CPU bound process fairly soon reaches the lowest priority anyway, and a high nice value cannot lower it more. This can be best seen with 2 CPU hogs, one of which has a high nice value and the other doesn't--they eat about the same amount of CPU time. Low nice values are better suited to speed the programs up because they do not allow the priority to decay to the lowest value. Another aside, if you want to have a program running in the background, take a look at rtprio/idleprio. Caveat, idleprio process will run only when the machine is otherwise idle, which may be unsuitable for the original author. The other possibility would be to set the default nice value to some negative value (from the kernel standpoint--i.e. not very nice, constant prio boost for all), and nice 0 for the background programs. This works very well, the background programs do not get to run very often, and the foreground programs behave as they did before as everyone gets the same constant priority boost. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 02:12:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.mt.sri.com (ppp58-max01.twics.com [202.237.149.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23586 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@nomad.mt.sri.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00841; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:11:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:11:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803181011.DAA00841@nomad.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mark Newton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables In-Reply-To: <4047.890178584@time.cdrom.com> References: <199803172330.KAA26028@frenzy.ct> <4047.890178584@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Nate Williams" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've told a colleague that the -Q option to ld still works under 2.2.5, > > and will generate an executable which stands a better-than-even chance > > of running under BSD/OS 2.0 from BSDI. > > I don't believe that BSD/OS 2.0 is capable of running any sort of > FreeBSD binaries now, linked with -Q or otherwise. Actually, if you put all the FreeBSD shlibs onto a recent BSDi box, it will run non-kernel binaries fine. Some things don't work (JDK didn't work, but tcsh, kaffe, and ssh worked fine). Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 02:20:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28694 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.mt.sri.com (ppp57-max02.twics.com [202.237.149.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28616 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@nomad.mt.sri.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00896; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:19:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:19:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803181019.DAA00896@nomad.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Douglas Carmichael Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@itojun.org Subject: Re: I have a patch for rc.network to allow specifying DHCP in rc.conf In-Reply-To: <199803180248.UAA00264@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> References: <199803180248.UAA00264@dcarmich.pr.mcs.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Nate Williams" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I took the DHCP if part out of /etc/pccard_ether. > (Is the dhcpc program normally in /usr/local/sbin?) DHCP isn't part of FreeBSD at all, so it doesn't belong in any of the scripts until it becomes part. It was easier to leave it in pccard_ether for PAO integration. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 05:13:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00616 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00565 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id OAA20732 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:12:01 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA04343; 18 Mar 98 14:01:59 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 18 Mar 98 13:40:14 +0100 Subject: Re: bin/6039 Message-ID: <79d_9803181401@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> References: <350EF342.819B7D97@dal.net> Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 17 Mar 98 23:03:46 Studded (2:234/49.99) wrote to All regarding Re: bin/6039 in area "freebsd-hacker" S> Is it possible to fix something up so that fdimage won't S> try to write the image if it wasn't transferred in binary mode? S> This would eliminate about 80% of the questions about this in S> -questions. It could look for lf alone, if all lf's are preceded by cr's, the image was transferred in ascii mode. Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 05:51:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA09372 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Wed Mar 18 08:35 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA14326 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:38:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, olagappan@hotmail.com Subject: RE: OS features to be done - Help Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:38:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: muthu olagappan[SMTP:olagappan@hotmail.com] > > Iam working on freebsd since 1997. I would like to contribute to > > freebsd. I have knowledge of database like Oracle. I would like to > what > features can be added to FreeBSD, so that database (like Oracle) > performance will improve. I also had a look through the tasks to be > Did you got Oracle running on FreeBSD ? If yes, it may be a fairly good contribution. If not, getting it running may be a very good contribution also :-) -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 06:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14457 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24156; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:13:19 GMT Message-ID: <016501bd5277$597270e0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Robert Watson" , Subject: Re: need a reference: data link layer packet transmission Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:08:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG maybe i'm being niave, but look into DIVERT sockets, with a the kernel firewall and a divert socket you can capture the traffic. -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 11:42 PM Subject: need a reference: data link layer packet transmission > >For performance testing and bug catching, I would like to be able to >"replay" tcpdump captured packet streams that were promiscuously sniffed >off of a network. Using the existing tcpdump to do this is ideal, as it >timestamps, etc. However, I need to be able to resend the packets over >the network, and not all of the packets of interest are IP-packets. So I >need to be able to manually ship these packets to the link layer for >delivery (on a specific device). I know that bpf can be used for >transmission as well as reception (bpfwrite), but have had a hard time >finding sample source code that uses this transmission; bpf is primarily >intended for listening and not deliver. > >The Stevens UNIX Network Programming book referred me to the rarp source >code, and indeed there is a somewhat obfuscated creation of rarp replies >there, but I was hoping for something a little more tutorial-like. >Similarly, the man pages are not particularly talkative about the >functions associated with BPF (although they due cover the structures >fairly well). I do not currently have a copy of the original BPF paper, >but was wondering if it was available online, or if there were other >software packages I could look at for further information. While I am >willing to delve into kernel source to find the answer, I would rather see >some text or a package that does similar things to what I want to write. > >Alternatively, if such a package exists that already does what I describe, >a URL to that would be great! > >Thanks in advance, > > Robert N Watson > >Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ >SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ >robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 06:13:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14766 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14603; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07344; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Studded cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:24:38 PST." <350F92D6.57AD3B6C@dal.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:12:20 -0800 Message-ID: <7340.890230340@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Welp, my apologies (sincerely) to the denizens of -hackers if I've > stepped across some sort of boundary. The 14 times I've mentioned this I think you're taking a small jab rather more harshly than it was intended. All I meant by this was a reference to the usual refrain (which has been going on for years) about people sending enhancement requests or bug fixes to the mailing lists rather than using send-pr. I and several other folks make an effort to scoop these things out of the air when we see them, but if nobody happens to be looking at the moment then you can pretty much kiss whatever it was goodbye and that's a shame - it's a rare soul indeed who goes looking back through the mailing list archives for lost submissions given the daily volume of the mailing lists. With a PR you'll at least eventually have your request looked at again once or twice by our resident PR archaeologists. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 06:15:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15176 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15017 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:13:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29484; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:12:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803181412.JAA29484@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: OS features to be done - Help In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at "Mar 18, 98 08:38:41 am" To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:12:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, olagappan@hotmail.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ---------- > > From: muthu olagappan[SMTP:olagappan@hotmail.com] > > > > Iam working on freebsd since 1997. I would like to contribute to > > > > freebsd. I have knowledge of database like Oracle. I would like to > > what > > features can be added to FreeBSD, so that database (like Oracle) > > performance will improve. I also had a look through the tasks to be > > > Did you got Oracle running on FreeBSD ? If yes, it may be a > fairly good contribution. If not, getting it running may be a very > good contribution also :-) > Note that I worked for Oracle before the company that I work for split off (NCI.) Oracle is NOT sold as a product for Linux or FreeBSD, but I know that it has run in 'various labs' at work on both. It is a marketing issue that it is not available for sale as a seperate product. I assume that the marketing people understand the tradeoffs and are making the right decision. However, with my FreeBSD-core hat on, IMO, it would be nice for FreeBSD if Oracle sold the database as an official product. The limitations that FreeBSD has running Oracle are pretty well informally understood, but AFAIK not fully characterized. Once it uses the AIO code, it should perform as well (on a single CPU system) on FreeBSD, as well as on any other small, single CPU OS. For serious database performance, the AIO usage on striped raw disks is critical. This was exactly my immediate motivation for doing the AIO code. When it is productized (the AIO code), it'll be as good as it can be (within reason.) The AIO code WILL DEFINITELY be productized in 3.0. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 06:19:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:19:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15968 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07400; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:18:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Nate Williams" cc: Mark Newton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:11:44 MST." <199803181011.DAA00841@nomad.mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:18:45 -0800 Message-ID: <7396.890230725@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, if you put all the FreeBSD shlibs onto a recent BSDi box, it > will run non-kernel binaries fine. Some things don't work (JDK didn't > work, but tcsh, kaffe, and ssh worked fine). Really? I managed to do this with an earlier (BSD/OS 1.x?) machine and it worked great - everything from FreeBSD emacs to fvwm binaries ran under BSD/OS with the FreeBSD ld.so and shared libs copied into the appropriate places. My copy of BSD/OS 2.1, however, simply refuses to execute the FreeBSD executable at all, shared or static. The image activator spits up on it, claiming it's of an invalid binary format. How did you manage to get it to work, that's what I want to know. ;) Jordan > > > Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 06:56:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23388 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:56:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23368 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04745; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:44:21 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <350FDDC0.9328A089@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:44:17 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, olagappan@hotmail.com Subject: Re: OS features to be done - Help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > ? ---------- > ? From: muthu olagappan[SMTP:olagappan@hotmail.com] > ? > ? Iam working on freebsd since 1997. I would like to contribute to > ? > ? freebsd. I have knowledge of database like Oracle. I would like to > ? what > ? features can be added to FreeBSD, so that database (like Oracle) > ? performance will improve. I also had a look through the tasks to be > ? > Did you got Oracle running on FreeBSD ? If yes, it may be a > fairly good contribution. If not, getting it running may be a very > good contribution also :-) > > -SB > I know at minimum 3 peoples, which have running ORACLE on FreeBSD (including me). Look at mailing list archive and try search on keyword ORACLE. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 07:12:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itsdsv1.enc.edu (fw1.enc.edu [207.95.42.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25057 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:12:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owensc@enc.edu) Received: from itsdsv2.enc.edu (itsdsv2.enc.edu [10.1.1.9]) by itsdsv1.enc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13406 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:08:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:08:51 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Owens Reply-To: Charles Owens To: hackers list FreeBSD Subject: P5 Net::LDAPapi - p5 mem problem? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy, C. Donly's Perl5 Net::LDAPapi module (see http://miso.wwa.com/~donley/) compiles and installs fine but the example scripts seem to exhibit memory problems. The script ldapwalk.pl (which walks through LDAP entries matching a given filter) prints this message once for each matching that it finds: perl in free(): warning: chunk is already free. Another script ldapwalk2.pl (which does the same thing but uses async LDAP methods) also does this. With 2.2.2-STABLE, it would also bomb with a nasty message something like, "perl: OUT OF MEMORY!". On a -CURRENT system this bombing doesn't happen. Anyone else play with this? Any ideas as to what the problem is? The fact that the behavior is different between -STABLE and -CURRENT would seem to indicate something OS-specific is going on. [ BTW, just in case it matters, P5 is at 5.004_04 and was built 2/28 (from the current p5 port at that time). It was built on a July97 vintage RELENG_2_2 system. The system was upgraded to -CURRENT this past Friday. I just now rebuilt and reinstalled P5 and this module and the behavior is still as described above ] Thanks, --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles N. Owens Email: owensc@enc.edu http://www.enc.edu/~owensc Network & Systems Administrator Information Technology Services "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's Eastern Nazarene College best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 07:38:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29083 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29072 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:38:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2010342; 18 Mar 98 13:27 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yFGaN-0007PG-00; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:39 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:00:39 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: Tom Subject: Re: Revamping /etc/daily, weekly, monthly Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Duncan Barclay , Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On 06-Feb-98 Tom wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > >> > Does anyone have any comments on my re-vamp of /etc/daily and friends, >> > if you rememeber it was called bev? The original thread provoked >> > some discussion so someone must care! >> >> I think that, on the whole, it's obsoleted by the /etc/periodic stuff >> in -current. Have you looked at this? > > Both are buggy in how login accounting is done. That is, the monthly > login accounting report is only for a partial month. > > The best fix for -stable is to move the rotation of wtmp to /etc/monthly > from newsyslog.conf > >> -- >> \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith >> \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au >> \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org >> \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > Tom > --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 08:48:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08048 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08033; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:48:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gabor@acm.org) Received: from [144.92.183.203] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id KAA10128 (8.8.6/50); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:48:15 -0600 Message-ID: <350FFB6D.41C67EA6@acm.org> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:50:53 -0600 From: Gabor Kincses X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edwin Culp CC: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinkpad and ppbus References: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org> <350F3053.46225DB5@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Edwin Culp wrote: > > Gabor Kincses wrote: > > > > I'm trying to get my parallel port ZIP drive working with the new ppbus > > driver set, but I'm stuck. Here's the relevant portion of dmesg: > > > > ppc0 at 0x3bc irq 7 flags 0x4 on isa > > ppc0: SMC-like chipset (ECP/EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in EPP mode (EPP 1.9) > > ppi0: on ppbus 0 > > plip0: on ppbus 0 > > nlpt0: on ppbus 0 > > nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port > > vpo0: on ppbus 0 > > vpo0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > > npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard > > npx0: INT 16 interface > > > > Could an increased timeout value be necessary for this box (755CX, fall > > 1995)? > > > > Also, after the vpo lines show up, the console goes blank, until > > switching to ttyv1 and back to ttyv0. Then the background is bright > > red. I also had to hack syscons.h to a 37x100 console. > > > > -- > > Gabor Kincses > > (gabor@acm.org) > I don't see the reference to scbus0 something like > > scbus0 at vpo0 bus 0 That is what I was expecting also. But I only get "vpo0 waiting for scsi devices to settle". Then the screen goes blank until a console switch. > > or sd0 something like > > sd0 at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 > sd0 type 0 removable SCSI 2 > > and a couple of other lines about the media. > > are scbus0 and sd0 in your kernel config file? > > controller scbus0 > device sd0 > > in addition to > > controller ppbus0 > controller ppc0 at isa? irq 7 vector ppcintr > controller vpo0 at ppbus? > device nlpt0 AT ppbus? > Unfortunately, I have all that. Thanks, -- Gabor Kincses (gabor@acm.org) FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 09:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11760 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:06:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20467; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:06:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199803181706.JAA20467@austin.polstra.com> To: lem@cantv.net Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:06:02 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Luis_E=2E_Mu=F1oz=22?= wrote: > Is anyone running SMP FreeBSD on Compaq hardware? > I would be interested in knowing about your setup > as we're considering this alternative. I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be surprised if SMP FreeBSD ran on Compaq machines. Compaq, like the neighborhood dog, is incapable of walking past a bush without pissing on it. As a result, Compaq hardware is incompatible in many ways, down to the smallest trivial detail. Even the power supply connectors are nonstandard. Even the screws holding the case together are strange. This was true years ago when I made the mistake of buying a Compaq DeskPro 386/20, and it's been true ever since. Furthermore, Compaq considers every little incompatibility to be valuable proprietary information, which it will not release to anybody except Microsoft and a few other big players. Basically, they want you to buy your hardware from Compaq, your software from Compaq, your support from Compaq, and your spare parts from Compaq. They don't want you to run FreeBSD on their machines, and they won't give you the time of day if you run into problems. Just so you know what you're getting into. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 09:19:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:19:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soccer.inetspace.com (soccer.inetspace.com [206.50.163.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14328 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kgor@soccer.inetspace.com) Received: (from kgor@localhost) by soccer.inetspace.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08905; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:18:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kgor) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:18:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803181718.LAA08905@soccer.inetspace.com> From: "Kent S. Gordon" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org CC: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Simon Shapiro on Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:13:10 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres configuration without problems of SYSV shared memory. I am still looking at what options to use with mmap (I think the options should be MAP_INHERIT, MAP_HASSEMAPHORE, MAP_SHARED, and possible MAP_ANON, but I need to look closer at the code). Is their any documentation of what the meaning of the different options except for in the code and the man page? >On 16-Mar-98 Ollivier Robert wrote: >> According to Kent S. Gordon: >>> What is the current limit on SYSV shared memory? I looked quickly at >>> the kernel sources but could not find what needs to be changed. >> >> The following is extracted from my kernel config. file. You can find >> similar constant for increasing # of semaphores/message queues. >> >> -=-=-=- >> options SYSVSHM >> options SYSVSEM >> options SYSVMSG >> options "SHMMAXPGS=1024" # 4096 KB of sharable memory > >This works up to a point. What about 256MB of shared memory? 512MB? >Yes, folks, this IS a valid and useful question. Hint: The discussion >that will undoubtedly follow, should be diverted to freebsd-database. > >I managed to get up to about 7,000 PostgreSQL buffers with: > >in sys/i386/conf: > >NOMIS-smp:options "SHMMAX=(SHMMAXPGS*PAGE_SIZE+1)" >NOMIS-smp:options SHMMAXPGS=16385 >NOMIS-smp:options SYSVSHM > >And in sys/i386/include: > >Index: vmparam.h >=================================================================== >RCS file: /Archives/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-CVS/src/sys/i386/include/vmparam.h,v >retrieving revision 1.29 >diff -c -r1.29 vmparam.h >*** vmparam.h 1998/02/23 07:42:40 1.29 >--- vmparam.h 1998/03/15 19:53:17 >*************** >*** 52,58 **** > /* > * Virtual memory related constants, all in bytes > */ >! #define MAXTSIZ (16UL*1024*1024) /* max text size */ > #ifndef DFLDSIZ > #define DFLDSIZ (64UL*1024*1024) /* initial data >size lim >it */ > #endif >--- 52,58 ---- > /* > * Virtual memory related constants, all in bytes > */ >! #define MAXTSIZ (32UL*1024*1024) /* max text size */ > #ifndef DFLDSIZ > #define DFLDSIZ (64UL*1024*1024) /* initial data >size lim >it */ > #endif >*************** >*** 117,123 **** > > /* virtual sizes (bytes) for various kernel submaps */ > #ifndef VM_KMEM_SIZE >! #define VM_KMEM_SIZE (12 * 1024 * 1024) > #endif > > /* >--- 117,123 ---- > > /* virtual sizes (bytes) for various kernel submaps */ > #ifndef VM_KMEM_SIZE >! #define VM_KMEM_SIZE (64 * 1024 * 1024) > #endif > > /* > >Beyond that, things got ugly. We need David's input on how to go larger. > > >---------- > > >Sincerely Yours, > >Simon Shapiro >Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 09:28:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (JMEto9oab73dUa4zfu78q4w7HaENH/E3@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA16669 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from ash1.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.16.29] ([SULtWmJmjs5OIhcNO/dvbNnNUrF2yO22]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0yFMbN-0006zq-00; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:26:05 +0000 Received: from njs3 by ash1.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0yFMad-0001Lv-00; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:25:19 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:25:18 +0000 In-Reply-To: John Polstra "Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone?" (Mar 18, 9:06am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: John Polstra , lem@cantv.net Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 18, 9:06am, John Polstra wrote: } Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? > In article <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net>, > =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Luis_E=2E_Mu=F1oz=22?= wrote: > > > Is anyone running SMP FreeBSD on Compaq hardware? > > I would be interested in knowing about your setup > > as we're considering this alternative. > I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be surprised if > SMP FreeBSD ran on Compaq machines. Compaq, like the neighborhood > dog, is incapable of walking past a bush without pissing on it. As > a result, Compaq hardware is incompatible in many ways, down to > the smallest trivial detail. Even the power supply connectors are > nonstandard. Even the screws holding the case together are strange. > This was true years ago when I made the mistake of buying a Compaq > DeskPro 386/20, and it's been true ever since. I was using FreeBSD on an HP E40 for development last summer and it worked fine. I think they make multiprocessor versions of these machines, I have no experience of them but they might be worth a look. Regards, Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 10:02:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:02:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from EDISWITCH2.uninet.net.mx (EDISWITCH2.uninet.net.mx [200.33.150.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21895; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eculp@ver1.telmex.net.mx) Received: from sunix (aca1-6.uninet.net.mx [200.38.135.6] (may be forged)) by EDISWITCH2.uninet.net.mx (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02111; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:53:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <35100D0E.2EC25C80@ver1.telmex.net.mx> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:06:06 -0600 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gabor Kincses CC: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinkpad and ppbus References: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org> <350F3053.46225DB5@ver1.telmex.net.mx> <350FFB6D.41C67EA6@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gabor Kincses wrote: > > Edwin Culp wrote: > > > > Gabor Kincses wrote: > > > > > > I'm trying to get my parallel port ZIP drive working with the new ppbus > > > driver set, but I'm stuck. Here's the relevant portion of dmesg: > > > > > > ppc0 at 0x3bc irq 7 flags 0x4 on isa The only difference that I can see is the 0x4 flag and the address on ppc0. Here is my config, just in case there is a difference, but it seems the problem is somewhere else. Sorry ed controller scbus0 device sd0 controller ppbus0 controller ppc0 at isa? port ? irq 7 vector ppcintr controller vpo0 at ppbus? device nlpt0 at ppbus? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 10:37:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29691 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29665; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id KAA02717; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:37:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199803181837.KAA02717@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:37:23 -0800 From: "Fred L. Templin" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: templin@erg.sri.com Subject: L2 cache problems (??) on ThinkPad 560E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm trying to debug a problem with a device driver I wrote for the Netwave PCMCIA radio networking card on an IBM ThinkPad 560E. The Netwave card is configured as both a memory and I/O mapped card (i.e. 33KB of control store on the card are memory-mapped into ISA bus memory space, and a block of registers on the card are mapped into ISA I/O port space.) The card and driver work fine on a wide variety of laptop and desktop systems, but when I tried it on the 560E I ran into problems which "smell" like cache coherency issues. Basically, reads from the card's memory work fine on the 560E; I can receive network packets and even display them with tcpdump to show that data integrity is preserved. But, writes to the card's memory (as the result of transmit packets) result in either corrupted data over the radio link or a loss of synchronization between the driver and card - which strongly suggests to me that the writes are being cached and not flushed out to the card's control store memory. I have declared all data structures which are written to the card as "volatile" in my driver - which I thought should have obviated any caching issues. But, are there any other low-level system primitives I might need to use to either flush the cache or avoid caching alltogether? Finally, I may be making a dangerous leap of faith here in assuming that caching is at the heart of the issue. Can anyone think of another scenario which might be causing the problems I'm seeing? Thanks much, Fred templin@erg.sri.com P.S. Another factor which makes me believe that caching is the issue is the fact that the 560E includes a L2 cache chip which I don't see on any of my other laptops (see the "dmesg" output below): > FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #29: Tue Mar 17 10:00:06 GMT 1998 > templin@gloom.erg.sri.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/RAPI > CPU: Pentium (166.19-MHz 586-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x543 Stepping=3 > Features=0x8001bf > real memory = 50331648 (49152K bytes) > avail memory = 46112768 (45032K bytes) > Initializing PC-card drivers: aic gmc ed ep fe nw sn sio wdc ncv stg > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 > chip1 rev 3 on pci0:1 > vga0 rev 211 int a irq ?? on pci0:3 > pcic0 rev 226 int a irq ?? on pci0:19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 11:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10300 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cynic.portal.ca (root@cynic.portal.ca [204.174.36.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10288 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjs@portal.ca) Received: from localhost ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by cynic.portal.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05699; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:51:51 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: cynic.portal.ca: cjs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:51:50 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Sampson To: Studded cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src Makefile In-Reply-To: <350F92D6.57AD3B6C@dal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Studded wrote: > I couldn't imagine that y'all would want to generate a PR on 2 > little changes like I proposed last night. Why not? The PR system is for tracking change requests and bug reports. If you don't put stuff in the tracking system, someone else has to do so. cjs Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 12:08:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12555 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12548; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:08:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08672; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <351029A6.BE61B70C@dal.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:08:06 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src Makefile References: <7340.890230340@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Welp, my apologies (sincerely) to the denizens of -hackers if I've > > stepped across some sort of boundary. The 14 times I've mentioned this > > I think you're taking a small jab rather more harshly than it was > intended. Yes I did. The combination of the little men inside my sinuses with jack hammers and two situations of personal conflict yesterday caused my level of patience to be extremely low last night. My thanks to all who've commented to me personally regarding not taking this seriously, I appreciate the support. > All I meant by this was a reference to the usual refrain > (which has been going on for years) about people sending enhancement > requests or bug fixes to the mailing lists rather than using send-pr. I have used PR's for things that I know need to be changed. However since I'm still learning in a lot of areas I'd rather solicit discussion on certain things first since I'd rather not generate a bunch of PR's for things that will never happen. However, if you would prefer that I submit a PR for every change I'd like to see, be careful what you ask for. :) Anyway, thanks for the response, thanks for committing the NOPERL change, and be on the lookout for more PR's. Now I need to go find my sudafed. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 13:21:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24592 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24512 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22995; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:11:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803182111.NAA22995@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCI & multiport FastEthernet cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:13:26 GMT." <199803172013.NAA19881@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:11:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Can someone recommend a good reading about programming PCI things ? > > I know that it's possible to look at drivers but reading book is > > simpler and may give more background information. > > PCI System Architecture > MindShare, Inc. > Tom Shanley / Don Anderson > ISBN: 0-201-40993-3 > URL: http://cseng.aw.com/bookdetail.qry?ISBN=0%2D201%2D40993%2D3&ptype=0 You can get this at Barnes and Noble too. It's not as detailed as the real standard (which is surprisingly readable and informative), but much cheaper. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 14:18:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06327 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06272 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:18:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (newip32.wcc.net [206.104.247.32]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15384; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:13:48 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07278; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:17:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:17:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803182217.QAA07278@detlev.UUCP> To: hoek@hwcn.org CC: Studded@dal.net, hoek@hwcn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Tim Vanderhoek on Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:24:45 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: bin/6039 From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Is it possible to fix something up so that fdimage won't try to write >> the image if it wasn't transferred in binary mode? This would eliminate >> about 80% of the questions about this in -questions. > Offhand, I imagine it would be trivial. Hmm... I see four ways: a) changing the file format (clearly the Wrong Thing) b) adding a separate CRC file (not a bad idea, that) c) scanning for any bare newlines, and warning if it's not there (hmmmm... possibly good, I'd like to calculate the probability of there being bare newlines present) d) verifying that the file size is exactly 1 disk. If that's the case, then such a patch would be marvelous. > Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? Are there still OS's being released with an ftp that use ascii as the default for all files? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 14:28:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08349 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:28:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08286 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:28:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tnt142.wcc.net [208.10.139.142]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16440; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:23:57 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07300; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:25:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:25:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803182225.QAA07300@detlev.UUCP> To: Studded@dal.net CC: hoek@hwcn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <350F5000.25547584@dal.net> (message from Studded on Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:39:28 -0800) Subject: Re: bin/6039 From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <350F5000.25547584@dal.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? > A lot of people use weird ftp clients, netscape, or something else that > transfers in ascii by default. It would be nice if the thing gave a > shiny warning with a hint to the correct procedure. At work, I frequently transfer .zip files with Netscape with no corruption. Most people using 'weird' ftp clients (ncftp, et al) probably know ftp well enough. What are people using that still transfers in ascii mode default? -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 14:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10585 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:37:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garbo.lodgenet.com (garbo.lodgenet.com [204.124.122.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10547 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:37:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnp@lodgenet.com) Received: from milo.lodgenet.com (milo.lodgenet.com [10.0.122.42]) by garbo.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA22112 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:34:47 -0600 Received: from milo.lodgenet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by milo.lodgenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29332 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:36:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803182236.QAA29332@milo.lodgenet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Time Clock Reply-To: johnp@lodgenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:36:51 -0600 From: John Prince Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it possible to access and display both the RTC clock and the system time clock.. I seem to be a bit confused... Any help is appreciated. --John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 14:43:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12125 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from soleil.uvsq.fr (soleil.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12085; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from son@cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr) Received: from cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (rtc105.reseau.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.21]) by soleil.uvsq.fr (8.8.8/jtpda-5.3) with ESMTP id XAA03415 ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:43:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from son@localhost) by cezanne.prism.uvsq.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00310; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:43:40 GMT Message-ID: <19980318214339.60220@coreff.prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:43:39 +0000 From: Nicolas Souchu To: Gabor Kincses Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinkpad and ppbus References: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <350EE1B8.41C67EA6@acm.org>; from Gabor Kincses on Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 02:48:56PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD coreff 2.2.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Here are some actions... hope this helps. 1) try to force NIBBLE mode with flags = 0x1 2) try to configure your parallel port differently from BIOS (EPP only, SPP) > >Also, after the vpo lines show up, the console goes blank, until >switching to ttyv1 and back to ttyv0. Then the background is bright >red. I also had to hack syscons.h to a 37x100 console. ?! Any info about the chipset you have in the Thinkpad? -- Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 14:59:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15604 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15597 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA10066; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:59:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980318165937.A9910@emsphone.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:59:37 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: johnp@lodgenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Time Clock References: <199803182236.QAA29332@milo.lodgenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.5i In-Reply-To: <199803182236.QAA29332@milo.lodgenet.com>; from "John Prince" on Wed Mar 18 16:36:51 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Mar 18), John Prince said: > Is it possible to access and display both the RTC clock and the > system time clock.. > > I seem to be a bit confused... By default, they are the same thing. The settimeofday() call always sets the RTC clock, unless the sysctl variable machdep.disable_rtc_set is set to 1. What are you trying to do? -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 15:07:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16935 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.mt.sri.com (ppp7-max01.twics.com [202.237.149.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16922 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:07:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@nomad.mt.sri.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00673; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:02:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:02:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803182302.QAA00673@nomad.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Nate Williams" , Mark Newton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables In-Reply-To: <7396.890230725@time.cdrom.com> References: <199803181011.DAA00841@nomad.mt.sri.com> <7396.890230725@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Nate Williams" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > binary format. How did you manage to get it to work, that's what > I want to know. ;) I have no idea. I friend pointed me at it, and it 'just worked'. I suppose it's possible that it was an older version, but that doesn't seem likely. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 15:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orac.early.com (root@orac.early.com [204.170.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20565 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:23:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jandrese@early.com) Received: from jandrese.early.com (va-alx-pm1-45.early.com [209.140.189.65]) by orac.early.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03651; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:22:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:24:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Andresen To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: hoek@hwcn.org, Studded@dal.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 In-Reply-To: <199803182217.QAA07278@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: ~~> Why is it that so many people transfer it in ascii mode? ~~ ~~Are there still OS's being released with an ftp that use ascii as the ~~default for all files? Yes, and the name starts with "Windows". :::::::::::::::::::::::::::. . . . . ..:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Jason Andresen :. . . . . . . . . : My opinions are my own :: :: jandrese@vt.edu :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:: and not my employers. :: :.........................: Quote of the day :..........................: Mad, adj.: Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence ... -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" :::::::::::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.........................:.:.:.:.:.:.:.::::::::::: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 15:53:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:53:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27122 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11409; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:23:32 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA23247; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:23:32 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980319102331.45220@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:23:31 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Nate Williams , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mark Newton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDI executables References: <199803181011.DAA00841@nomad.mt.sri.com> <7396.890230725@time.cdrom.com> <199803182302.QAA00673@nomad.mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803182302.QAA00673@nomad.mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 04:02:01PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 March 1998 at 16:02:01 -0700, Nate Williams wrote: >> binary format. How did you manage to get it to work, that's what >> I want to know. ;) > > I have no idea. I friend pointed me at it, and it 'just worked'. I > suppose it's possible that it was an older version, but that doesn't > seem likely. I used FreeBSD executables on BSD/OS up to the time I stopped using the latter (version 2.1). I can't recall any significant problems. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 16:25:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02911 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:25:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shuttle.netronix.com (shuttle.netronix.com [205.149.170.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02904 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:25:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeff@netronix.com) Received: from ds9.netronix.com (ds9.netronix.com [205.149.190.36]) by shuttle.netronix.com (8.8.7/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA17435; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:26:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803190026.QAA17435@shuttle.netronix.com> From: "Jeff Buseman" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:26:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol 47 CC: Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sent this last week to the questions mailing list, but got little response (other than "let me know what you find out"). I'm sure someone knows the answer, so I'll try again. I did get referred to a Linux web page that discussed something about the fact that the 47 protocol doesn't use ports, such that a 1-to-many connection might work, but a many-to-many connection probably wouldn't (with their software, ipfwd, http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/IPfwd/). Any ideas? I am trying to get a MS VPN set up using the MS PPTP through a FreeBSD machine set up as a firewall. It has all the hardware and software loaded / configured to use NATd, ipfw, and routing to provide Internet access from the internal 10.* network to the ISP. The MS Server and Client machines are also loaded / configured. My problem is that as I watch the NATd translations (-v), I see that the TCP traffic (port 1723, per MS Knowledge Base Article q166288) is translated properly, but the non TCP protocol traffic (protocol 47) is not, even though the source and destination addresses are displayed properly. My NATd command is: natd -l -v -i vx0 -redirect_address 10.1.1.30 204.xxx.xxx.91 I see the following typical messages (from memory, so this may be a little syntactically messed up): in [tcp] 204.xxx.xxx.96:1030 -> 204.xxx.xxx.91:1723 aliased to 204.xxx.xxx.96:1030 -> 10.1.1.30:1723 in [?] 204.xxx.xxx.96 -> 204.xxx.xxx.91 aliased to 204.xxx.xxx.96 -> 204.xxx.xxx.91 (The out messages are similar, with reversed mapping, of course). Anyway, the point is that the unidentified protocol (47) is not being translated by NATd. (I checked that packets with a Lan Sniffer and they are protocol 47). Finally, my question(s) is this: Is there some way to make NATd do the translation on this protocol, or does it only handle TCP and UDP traffic? If so, is there some other way to get the MS PPTP in through the firewall to an unregistered network, or has someone hacked the NATd code to support MS PPTP? Or, how is everyone else providing MS VPN through their firewall (with unregistered internal addresses)? Jeff Buseman jeff@netronix.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 16:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03717 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03705 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:30:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13881; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:29:53 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id BAA04835; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:29:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319012952.45187@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:29:52 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Jeff Buseman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol 47 References: <199803190026.QAA17435@shuttle.netronix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803190026.QAA17435@shuttle.netronix.com>; from Jeff Buseman on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 04:26:55PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 04:26:55PM +0000, Jeff Buseman wrote: > Finally, my question(s) is this: Is there some way to make NATd do > the translation on this protocol, or does it only handle TCP and UDP > traffic? It only handle TCP and UDP traffic. The only way to get it to handle something else is by asking Charles or me to make libalias do so, preferably with pointer to suitable documentation. I might find time to handle this fairly quickly if you come up with docs. > If so, is there some other way to get the MS PPTP in through the firewall > to an unregistered network, or has someone hacked the NATd code to support > MS PPTP? Or, how is everyone else providing MS VPN through their firewall > (with unregistered internal addresses)? Nobody is, AFAIK. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 17:04:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07908 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:04:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07899 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0yFTkr-0003yv-00; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:04:21 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA20525; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:04:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199803190104.SAA20525@harmony.village.org> To: John Polstra Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? Cc: lem@cantv.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:06:02 PST." <199803181706.JAA20467@austin.polstra.com> References: <199803181706.JAA20467@austin.polstra.com> <3.0.5.32.19980317211035.00a2b290@pop.cantv.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:04:53 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199803181706.JAA20467@austin.polstra.com> John Polstra writes: : Furthermore, Compaq : considers every little incompatibility to be valuable proprietary : information, which it will not release to anybody except Microsoft ... : They don't want you to run : FreeBSD on their machines, and they won't give you the time of day if : you run into problems. hmmm, that would explain why my presario reports 16M of memory when it, in fact, has 40M in it.... I kinda like the torx T15 screws that they use to hold it together :-) Good luck finding them in the store, however. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 17:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08272 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA08251; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id RAA03159; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:07:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199803190107.RAA03159@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: L2 cache problems (??) on ThinkPad 560E In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:37:23 PST." <199803181837.KAA02717@grayling.erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:07:01 -0800 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, This problem is solved. Matt Jacob gave me a gentle nudge in the right direction which led to the solution. By adding additional wait-states to the PCMCIA controller chip's memory window mapping for the Netwave card on the 560E the write-corruption problem disappeared. So, it really wasn't a caching problem at all, but rather a memory timing issue with the 560E's PC-CARD implementation. This may be something to watch out for with other memory-mapped PC-CARDs on the ThinkPad... Fred templin@erg.sri.com > Hello, > > I'm trying to debug a problem with a device driver I wrote for the Netwave > PCMCIA radio networking card on an IBM ThinkPad 560E. The Netwave card is > configured as both a memory and I/O mapped card (i.e. 33KB of control store > on the card are memory-mapped into ISA bus memory space, and a block of > registers on the card are mapped into ISA I/O port space.) The card and > driver work fine on a wide variety of laptop and desktop systems, but when > I tried it on the 560E I ran into problems which "smell" like cache coherency > issues. > > Basically, reads from the card's memory work fine on the 560E; I can receive > network packets and even display them with tcpdump to show that data integrity > is preserved. But, writes to the card's memory (as the result of transmit > packets) result in either corrupted data over the radio link or a loss of > synchronization between the driver and card - which strongly suggests to me > that the writes are being cached and not flushed out to the card's control > store memory. I have declared all data structures which are written to the > card as "volatile" in my driver - which I thought should have obviated any > caching issues. But, are there any other low-level system primitives I might > need to use to either flush the cache or avoid caching alltogether? Finally, > I may be making a dangerous leap of faith here in assuming that caching is > at the heart of the issue. Can anyone think of another scenario which might > be causing the problems I'm seeing? > > Thanks much, > > Fred > templin@erg.sri.com > > P.S. Another factor which makes me believe that caching is the issue is > the fact that the 560E includes a L2 cache chip which I don't see on > any of my other laptops (see the "dmesg" output below): > > > > FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #29: Tue Mar 17 10:00:06 GMT 1998 > > templin@gloom.erg.sri.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/RAPI > > CPU: Pentium (166.19-MHz 586-class CPU) > > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x543 Stepping=3 > > Features=0x8001bf > > real memory = 50331648 (49152K bytes) > > avail memory = 46112768 (45032K bytes) > > Initializing PC-card drivers: aic gmc ed ep fe nw sn sio wdc ncv stg > > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > > chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 > > chip1 rev 3 on pci0:1 > > vga0 rev 211 int a irq ?? on pci0:3 > > pcic0 rev 226 int a irq ?? on pci0:19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 17:11:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09807 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23844; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:06:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803190106.RAA23844@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Warner Losh cc: John Polstra , lem@cantv.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:04:53 MST." <199803190104.SAA20525@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:06:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <199803181706.JAA20467@austin.polstra.com> John Polstra writes: > : Furthermore, Compaq > : considers every little incompatibility to be valuable proprietary > : information, which it will not release to anybody except Microsoft > .... > : They don't want you to run > : FreeBSD on their machines, and they won't give you the time of day if > : you run into problems. > > hmmm, that would explain why my presario reports 16M of memory when > it, in fact, has 40M in it.... We may have a solution for this (a proper one) in the wings. > I kinda like the torx T15 screws that they use to hold it together :-) > Good luck finding them in the store, however. T15's? Easy stuff. Now, pin-torx are a little harder, but not as annoying as, say, tri-wings. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 17:32:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:32:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA11898; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id RAA03194; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:30:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199803190130.RAA03194@grayling.erg.sri.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, templin@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: L2 cache problems (??) on ThinkPad 560E In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:07:01 PST." <199803190107.RAA03159@grayling.erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:30:45 -0800 From: "Fred L. Templin" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG P.S. > This problem is solved. Matt Jacob gave me a gentle nudge in the right > direction which led to the solution. By adding additional wait-states to > the PCMCIA controller chip's memory window mapping for the Netwave card > on the 560E the write-corruption problem disappeared. Also credit Kenjiro Cho who had also earlier theorized that the PCIC chip might somehow be involved. (I was too sold out on my own theory of cache corruption at the time to listen to him; sorry KJ!) Fred templin@erg.sri.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 20:16:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08291 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:15:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id FAA32737 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:11:48 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA04353; 19 Mar 98 04:16:26 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 18 Mar 98 21:25:57 +0100 Subject: send-pr Message-ID: <7be_9803190416@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> References: Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 18 Mar 98 20:51:50 Curt Sampson (2:234/49.99) wrote to All regarding Re: cvs commit: src Makefile in area "freebsd-hacker" CS>> I couldn't imagine that y'all would want to generate a PR on 2 CS>> little changes like I proposed last night. CS> CS> Why not? The PR system is for tracking change requests and bug CS> reports. If you don't put stuff in the tracking system, someone CS> else has to do so. I have posted a PR. Will I automatically be informed when somebody does something to it, or will I have to look at the website regularly? Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 20:54:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13378 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:54:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ppp6547.on.bellglobal.com (ppp7263.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13370 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp6547.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA07805; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:52:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: ppp6547.on.bellglobal.com: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:52:31 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@ppp6547.on.bellglobal.com Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: Studded@dal.net, hoek@hwcn.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bin/6039 In-Reply-To: <199803182225.QAA07300@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > At work, I frequently transfer .zip files with Netscape with no > corruption. Most people using 'weird' ftp clients (ncftp, et al) Probably because it's a .zip file and is quickly/easily recognized as requiring binary mode. Our .flp ending probably causes ftp clients which try to auto-guess the mode confusion. I recall having this problem with Lynx downloading the *.flp files at one time. To get around it, I used wcarchive's auto tar & gz feature so the the filename ended in .tar.gz, making it obvious to Lynx to use binary mode. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 23:08:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03987 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03972 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA12206; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:07:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:07:21 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Warner Losh cc: John Polstra , lem@cantv.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? In-Reply-To: <199803190104.SAA20525@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: > hmmm, that would explain why my presario reports 16M of memory when > it, in fact, has 40M in it.... I have an old "ProSignia" (can't find a real model # no matter how hard I try) that refuses to see more than 8M. I've thrown every kind of RAM known to man in the thing. The "press F1 on reboot" thing is very annoying as well. I do marvel at the FBSD VM stuff; it's just a measly 486/66 and it is still able to run http/https, samba, dhcp, mail, sshd, web-proxy, and a hacked up mail-web gateway with more speed than you would think could come out of a 486 with 8M of memory. The thing you have to remember with Compaq is that you are screwed if you use anything without a Compaq part number on it. Support stops the minute you throw non-Compaq parts in it. Makes tech support easy for *them*, but... Charles > > I kinda like the torx T15 screws that they use to hold it together :-) > Good luck finding them in the store, however. > > Warner > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 18 23:42:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11138 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11130 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:42:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17729 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:42:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:42:43 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One of the things that has been often requested is a method of automatically updating the files installed by /usr/src/etc/Makefile for the user. I have developed the following system based in part on the one in Nik Clayton's make world tutorial. http://www.nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk/FreeBSD/make-world/make-world.html Before I go on, yes I submitted a PR about this, however since this is not a small change I thought it would be a good idea to throw it open for discussion. The basic idea is simple. You use /usr/src/etc/Makefile to install a temporary tree. My choice is /var/tmp/temproot. Then you cd to that directory and run the script I submitted with the PR. The most recent version can always be found at http://home.san.rr.com/freebsd/comproot. The virtue of the script I submitted is that it is very simple, written in Bourne shell so it should be platform independent. It uses find to bring up all the files in the tree, not just the files in /etc, therefore it will not need to be updated when new files are added. The user has the option of unified or context diffs. By default the script first compares the CVS $Id of the files if they have them. A "strict" mode is also available to bypass this test. If the files have the same $Id, the one in the temp environment is deleted. The theory being that this way local changes will be ignored. If there are no version $Id's, or if "strict" mode is being used the two files are then compared with diff -q. If they are not different, the one in the temproot directory is deleted. If the files are different, the diff is displayed to the user (using $PAGER if they have it set, more if not). The user is then given the option to delete or install the temp version of the file. If they don't chose either option the file remains for them to merge by hand after the script has run through. I started to think of plans to merge changes for the user but the number of permutations gave me a huge headache. :) I update regularly and rarely have more than one or two files to check by hand when the script is done running. On a -Stable system that hadn't been updated in 6 months there were maybe 7 or 8 such files. This script has been thoroughly tested for several months by myself on a number of different -Stable configurations and machines. It's also been tested by several friends of mine who use -Current. I have thought of at least two items that I will probably be adding, namely the building and populating of the temproot environment (probably using Nik's modified method of adding the date to the name of the directory) and adding an option to keep the diff around for the user to examine later. I am open to questions, comments and suggestions of course. The script already does what I need it to so my feelings won't be hurt if it's not included in the distribution. However this request is made often and I think I have a good method here. I'd propose that it live in /usr/src/etc, and I would love for someone to come up with a more clever name for it. :) If y'all do choose to use this script, it's utility could be greatly increased by giving each of the files installed by the makefile a CVS $Id. I can provide details if anyone's interested. Hope this is useful, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 00:11:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16127 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:11:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16097 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA04559; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:13:05 GMT Message-ID: <000a01bd530e$24990ea0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "spork" , "Warner Losh" Cc: "John Polstra" , , Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 03:08:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG there is an option in the LINT kernel to tell the machine not to trust the bios for the memory count, you can "hard wire" it. -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: spork To: Warner Losh Cc: John Polstra ; lem@cantv.net ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 10:14 PM Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? > >On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: > >> hmmm, that would explain why my presario reports 16M of memory when >> it, in fact, has 40M in it.... > >I have an old "ProSignia" (can't find a real model # no matter how hard I >try) that refuses to see more than 8M. I've thrown every kind of RAM >known to man in the thing. The "press F1 on reboot" thing is very >annoying as well. > >I do marvel at the FBSD VM stuff; it's just a measly 486/66 and it is >still able to run http/https, samba, dhcp, mail, sshd, web-proxy, and a >hacked up mail-web gateway with more speed than you would think could come >out of a 486 with 8M of memory. > >The thing you have to remember with Compaq is that you are screwed if you >use anything without a Compaq part number on it. Support stops the minute >you throw non-Compaq parts in it. Makes tech support easy for *them*, >but... > >Charles > >> >> I kinda like the torx T15 screws that they use to hold it together :-) >> Good luck finding them in the store, however. >> >> Warner >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >> > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 00:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20429 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20411; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01793; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:39:47 +0100 (CET) To: "Fred L. Templin" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: L2 cache problems (??) on ThinkPad 560E In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:37:23 PST." <199803181837.KAA02717@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:39:47 +0100 Message-ID: <1791.890296787@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >But, are there any other low-level system primitives I might >need to use to either flush the cache or avoid caching alltogether? Finally, >I may be making a dangerous leap of faith here in assuming that caching is >at the heart of the issue. Can anyone think of another scenario which might >be causing the problems I'm seeing? pick up the tech-man from www.intel.com, dump the registers and see what it does to the area of memory you're using. I have a 560' here which works fine with a NE2000 (Infomover) card, but that doesn't prove much in this context of course... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "Drink MONO-tonic, it goes down but it will NEVER come back up!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 01:50:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from symbionics.co.uk (symsun3.symbionics.co.uk [194.32.100.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27989 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from sympc287.symbionics.co.uk by symbionics.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18457; Thu, 19 Mar 98 09:48:40 GMT Message-Id: <9803190948.AA18457@symbionics.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:44:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. Reply-To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:42:43 -0800 > From: Studded > Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority > To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. > One of the things that has been often requested is a method of > automatically updating the files installed by /usr/src/etc/Makefile for > the user. I have developed the following system based in part on the one > in Nik Clayton's make world tutorial. > http://www.nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk/FreeBSD/make-world/make-world.html > [snipped sensible stuff, similar to the way I have done it but better] > I am open to questions, comments and suggestions of course. The script > already does what I need it to so my feelings won't be hurt if it's not > included in the distribution. However this request is made often and I > think I have a good method here. I'd propose that it live in > /usr/src/etc, and I would love for someone to come up with a more clever > name for it. :) If y'all do choose to use this script, it's utility > could be greatly increased by giving each of the files installed by the > makefile a CVS $Id. I can provide details if anyone's interested. Something I do is to use lots of files like "rc.conf.local" and put all of my site specific changes into these. That way the distribution file can be updated easily. It may be worth mentioning this with your code. > Hope this is useful, > > Doug > Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 02:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01889 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01843 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23235; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:25:55 GMT Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13133; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:25:51 GMT Message-ID: <19980319102551.54421@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:25:51 +0000 To: Leif Neland Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: send-pr References: <7be_9803190416@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <7be_9803190416@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk>; from Leif Neland on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 09:25:57PM +0100 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 09:25:57PM +0100, Leif Neland wrote: > I have posted a PR. Will I automatically be informed when somebody does > something to it, or will I have to look at the website regularly? Yes. Assuming that you sent the PR with a usable e-mail address. In addition, if whoever's working on the PR needs to get in touch with you about it they should ensure that their message (and your replies) are also sent to the GNATS address. That way the correspondance is captured in the audit-trail of the PR. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 02:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04518 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:50:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24413; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:50:09 GMT Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13167; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:50:04 GMT Message-ID: <19980319105003.01742@iii.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:50:03 +0000 To: Studded Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net>; from Studded on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [All IMHO] On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800, Studded wrote: > Before I go on, yes I submitted a PR about this, Do you have the PR number handy? I haven't seen it float by me here. > (probably using Nik's modified method of adding the date to the name of > the directory) and adding an option to keep the diff around for the user > to examine later. Based directly on a suggestion by Axel Thimm. I should probably make that clearer in the text. > I'd propose that it live in /usr/src/etc, Nope. In theory there are no executables in /etc (the *ly scripts have a historical precedent). I think your best bet is to turn it into a port, probably for somewhere in ports/sysutils. That will allow people to use it with the minimum of fuss over where it should install to and so on. There's a precedent for this sort of thing, 'pib' the Ports Index Browser. It's very handy if you've got the ports system, but it's not a part of the base (supplied) OS. > and I would love for someone to come up with a more clever name for it. Argh. It's far too early in the morning for me to do that. . . :-) N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:01:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29608; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:01:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28499; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:01:02 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA07180; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:01:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319160058.14256@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:00:58 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net>; from Studded on Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800, Studded wrote: > One of the things that has been often requested is a method of > automatically updating the files installed by /usr/src/etc/Makefile for > the user. I have developed the following system based in part on the one > in Nik Clayton's make world tutorial. > http://www.nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk/FreeBSD/make-world/make-world.html It is still easier to do this correctly if you base yourself on having a pristine version of the initial etc files available, and use 'merge' to do the actual merge. This can be extracted from the CVS repository, but the users that have that available probably isn't the primary target (except if they have the CD-ROM, of course... :-) Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on initial install should make good upgrades much easier... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:29:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04343; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:29:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04972; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:28:42 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19980319172842.00454@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:28:42 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: Eivind Eklund , Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. Mail-Followup-To: Eivind Eklund , Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> <19980319160058.14256@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980319160058.14256@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:00:58PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:00:58PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800, Studded wrote: > > One of the things that has been often requested is a method of > > automatically updating the files installed by /usr/src/etc/Makefile for > > the user. I have developed the following system based in part on the one > > in Nik Clayton's make world tutorial. > > http://www.nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk/FreeBSD/make-world/make-world.html > > It is still easier to do this correctly if you base yourself on having > a pristine version of the initial etc files available, and use 'merge' > to do the actual merge. > > This can be extracted from the CVS repository, but the users that have > that available probably isn't the primary target (except if they have > the CD-ROM, of course... :-) > > Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of > the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? > Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on > initial install should make good upgrades much easier... I haven't looked at the script yet, but this was an idea... Use the $ID$ and fetch http://www.freebsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi, to fetch a new copy of each (changed) origional file. Create a diff against that and then apply the diff to the new /etc. Merge conflicts by hand and then copy. Requires access via fetch, but that's not a big problem for CVSSup users. -Jeremy -- .sig.gz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:33:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:33:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05055 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA05784; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:29:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980319092912.A8884@emsphone.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:29:12 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: spork , Warner Losh Cc: John Polstra , lem@cantv.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP kernel on Compaq anyone? References: <199803190104.SAA20525@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.5i In-Reply-To: ; from "spork" on Thu Mar 19 02:07:21 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Mar 19), spork said: > > On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Warner Losh wrote: > > > hmmm, that would explain why my presario reports 16M of memory when > > it, in fact, has 40M in it.... > > I have an old "ProSignia" (can't find a real model # no matter how hard I > try) that refuses to see more than 8M. I've thrown every kind of RAM > known to man in the thing. The "press F1 on reboot" thing is very > annoying as well. I can't help you with your memory problem (have you tried forcing a memory size in your kernel config? "device npx0 ... iosiz 32768" for 32MB), but here's a DOS program that makes the F1 prompt timeout after 20 secs on the Compaq DeskPro machines we have at work. It used to be available from Compaq's support page, but I can't find the link anymore. You'll have to re-run it every time you change your EISA configuration. begin 744 no_f1.com M^C/;L`KF<.1QJ(!T`_OK\+`MYG#D<:@(=2\,"%"P+>9P6.9QL"_F<.1QBMBP ?+N9PY'&*^+@(``/8L"_F<(K#YG&P+N9PBL?F Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08137 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:46:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08093 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by gw.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA18023 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:45:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD5323.F2666700.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Sentence/Line break question in man pages Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:44:05 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry to be so pedantic, but... In a manual page, is there a way to specify a sentence break (i.e. 2 spaces) when you are at the beginning of a line (e.g. after a '.Fl' that is on its own line) so that I can get the following output: ------------------------------------------------------------- and a vertical bar (|) after each that is a FIFO. Note that ^^ 2 spaces! ------------------------------------------------------------- In the man file, this is currently (giving one space): ------------------------------------------------------------- and a vertical bar (|) after each that is a .Tn FIFO . Note that ------------------------------------------------------------- and the following does not work (it causes a line break): ------------------------------------------------------------- and a vertical bar (|) after each that is a .Tn FIFO . Note that ------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Max P.S. If there is a pointer on how to use the macros, I would be happy to read that. I have been doing this by seeing what is currently done and assuming what the macros stand for (yes I know what that makes me). 8-) ----- Max Euston To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:54:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:54:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09904 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29895; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:54:41 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA07490; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:54:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319165439.56949@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:54:39 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall disks.c References: <19980319163042.52677@follo.net> <13801.890321824@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <13801.890321824@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 07:37:04AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 07:37:04AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > You wouldn't happen to have a clue how to handle the 're-install on > > dangerously dedicated' case correctly? It routinely bite people. > > I'd need a lot more information on how it's biting people. I wasn't > aware that there was any problem with this particular scenario OK, let me give you a step-by-step description of how to reproduce this: 1. Install a disk using dangerously dedicated mode. 2. Reboot. 3. Select custom install. 4. 'fdisk' the disk, doing nothing. 5. Watch sysinstall come up with a full-screen request with 3 choices - IIRC, "Install booteasy", "Install standard MBR", and "Do nothing to my bootblock". The default choice is either a standard MBR or booteasy; I forget which. If you don't change the default, your disk is toast on 'Commit'. I've been caught by this myself, and I've seen quite a few people being caught by it since. You need to be alert and have a good understanding of the FreeBSD disk-layout to not get caught. > > This is the case where a disk has only a BSD-bootsector on it, and > > sysinstall never-the-less write a standard DOS MBR over it (after > > having put up a requester asking the user if he want to, of course). > > Erm. So you're saying that the user is asking to be blown away, or > what exactly? We're giving the user a default of blowing himself away, and a default that it look logical not to change. Sorry for not being clear; I thought it was a problem I'd described to you earlier :-( The below are my patches that attempt to fix the problem; unfortunately, they have the slight disadvantage of not working (as far as I can tell, they are no-ops). Besides, they stylistically suck - the functionality should probably be rolled into libdisk. Index: disks.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/release/sysinstall/disks.c,v retrieving revision 1.95 diff -u -r1.95 disks.c --- disks.c 1998/02/13 08:01:01 1.95 +++ disks.c 1998/02/18 19:59:51 @@ -445,7 +445,15 @@ * disk (i.e., the disklabel starts at sector 0), even in cases where the user has requested * booteasy or a "standard" MBR -- both would be fatal in this case. */ - if (!(d->chunks->part->flags & CHUNK_FORCE_ALL) && (mbrContents = getBootMgr(d->name)) != NULL) + if (!(d->chunks->part->flags & CHUNK_FORCE_ALL) && + !(d->chunks->next || (d->chunks->part && + !d->chunks->part->next && + ((d->chunks->part->type == whole && + d->chunks->part->part && + !d->chunks->part->part->next && + d->chunks->part->part->type == freebsd) || + d->chunks->part->type == freebsd))) && + (mbrContents = getBootMgr(d->name)) != NULL) Set_Boot_Mgr(d, mbrContents); if (DITEM_STATUS(diskPartitionWrite(NULL)) != DITEM_SUCCESS) @@ -477,8 +485,15 @@ * disk (i.e., the disklabel starts at sector 0), even in cases where the user has requested * booteasy or a "standard" MBR -- both would be fatal in this case. */ - if ((d->chunks->part->flags & CHUNK_FORCE_ALL) != CHUNK_FORCE_ALL - && (mbrContents = getBootMgr(d->name)) != NULL) + if ((d->chunks->part->flags & CHUNK_FORCE_ALL) != CHUNK_FORCE_ALL && + !(d->chunks->next || (d->chunks->part && + !d->chunks->part->next && + ((d->chunks->part->type == whole && + d->chunks->part->part && + !d->chunks->part->part->next && + d->chunks->part->part->type == freebsd) || + d->chunks->part->type == freebsd))) && + (mbrContents = getBootMgr(d->name)) != NULL) Set_Boot_Mgr(d, mbrContents); break; Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10410 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22022; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall disks.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:54:39 +0100." <19980319165439.56949@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:57:35 -0800 Message-ID: <22018.890323055@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1. Install a disk using dangerously dedicated mode. > 2. Reboot. > 3. Select custom install. > 4. 'fdisk' the disk, doing nothing. > 5. Watch sysinstall come up with a full-screen request with 3 choices > - IIRC, "Install booteasy", "Install standard MBR", and "Do nothing > to my bootblock". The default choice is either a standard MBR or > booteasy; I forget which. If you don't change the default, your > disk is toast on 'Commit'. Erm... But that's exactly what I'd expect to have happen? > I've been caught by this myself, and I've seen quite a few people > being caught by it since. You need to be alert and have a good > understanding of the FreeBSD disk-layout to not get caught. Well, yes.. But I'm not sure that this one's fixable using methods that wouldn't in themselves be worse than the problem. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 07:59:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10933 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:59:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01303 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: hi terry Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "We have raised the bar for operating systems on the Intel platform, positioning SCO to aggressively compete in departmental and enterprise computing markets where a new generation of enterprise-class Intel servers are replacing proprietary RISC systems," said Alok Mohan, SCO's president and chief executive officer (CEO). --clari.tw.computers.unix Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 08:15:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14864 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:15:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14838 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:15:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00414; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:15:25 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA07594; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:15:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319171525.25110@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:15:25 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall disks.c References: <19980319165439.56949@follo.net> <22018.890323055@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <22018.890323055@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 07:57:35AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 07:57:35AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 1. Install a disk using dangerously dedicated mode. > > 2. Reboot. > > 3. Select custom install. > > 4. 'fdisk' the disk, doing nothing. > > 5. Watch sysinstall come up with a full-screen request with 3 choices > > - IIRC, "Install booteasy", "Install standard MBR", and "Do nothing > > to my bootblock". The default choice is either a standard MBR or > > booteasy; I forget which. If you don't change the default, your > > disk is toast on 'Commit'. > > Erm... But that's exactly what I'd expect to have happen? Give the poor users a break! They just select a disk, go through everything selecting the defaults (which work, until the install is complete). Then they reboot, and nothing work - their disklabel is hosed. This isn't even close to satisfying POLA. > > > I've been caught by this myself, and I've seen quite a few people > > being caught by it since. You need to be alert and have a good > > understanding of the FreeBSD disk-layout to not get caught. > > Well, yes.. But I'm not sure that this one's fixable using methods > that wouldn't in themselves be worse than the problem. Uhm? As far as I can tell, this just requires not writing the bootblock if a disk is dangerously dedicated. This is information that should be easily available from libdisk - unfortunately, I couldn't find an easy way to get it. Is there some interaction here that I'm overlooking? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 09:40:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vdp01.vailsystems.com (root@vdp01.vailsystems.com [207.152.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29208 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:39:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hal@vailsys.com) Received: from crocodile.vail (crocodile.vail [192.168.128.47]) by vdp01.vailsystems.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05856; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:39:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from jaguar.vail.vailsys.com (jaguar.vail [192.168.129.46]) by crocodile.vail (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04649; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:39:56 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:39:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803191739.LAA04649@crocodile.vail> From: Hal Snyder To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Snob Art Genre on Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:59:06 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: hi terry Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:59:06 -0500 (EST) > From: Snob Art Genre > "We have raised the bar for operating systems on the Intel platform, > positioning SCO to aggressively compete in departmental and enterprise > computing markets where a new generation of enterprise-class Intel > servers are replacing proprietary RISC systems," said Alok Mohan, SCO's > president and chief executive officer (CEO). > > --clari.tw.computers.unix Whoa boy, we better run for cover now. Here we run a mix of FreeBSD, SCO, and NT. FreeBSD systems run uptimes in hundreds of days. Of necessity, we've equipped the SCO systems with hardware to reboot them when they wedge - uptime averages 72 hours on the more active servers. NT isn't used for production servers, just desktop systems for the less technical users and guys/gals in suits. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 09:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00879 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00849 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22582; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:44:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall disks.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:15:25 +0100." <19980319171525.25110@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:44:58 -0800 Message-ID: <22578.890329498@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Give the poor users a break! They just select a disk, go through > everything selecting the defaults (which work, until the install is > complete). Then they reboot, and nothing work - their disklabel is > hosed. > > This isn't even close to satisfying POLA. I didn't say it was a good thing, simply that the problem has been known for some time and it's not hard to see how and where it would happen. This has been around since at least 2.2.1, so if it doesn't get fixed for 2.2.6 (which is coming up very soon here, in case nobody noticed ;) then I'm not going to get especially choked up over it. > Uhm? As far as I can tell, this just requires not writing the > bootblock if a disk is dangerously dedicated. This is information > that should be easily available from libdisk - unfortunately, I > couldn't find an easy way to get it. Is there some interaction here > that I'm overlooking? I couldn't find any easy way to get at it either. If Poul-Henning has some suggestions? Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 10:09:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06772 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:09:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tiger.acsu.k12.vt.us (tiger.acsu.k12.vt.us [170.222.18.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06675 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from flemer@tiger.acsu.k12.vt.us) Received: from localhost (flemer@localhost) by tiger.acsu.k12.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA00607 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:07:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:07:14 -0500 (EST) From: James Flemer To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vx device (3c905-100mb) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done (very) little driver programming. I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to be fully supported in this configuration. -James Flemer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 10:20:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09343 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:20:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09328 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:20:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03557; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:20:33 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA08148; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:20:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980319192032.19230@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:20:32 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, phk@critter.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/release/sysinstall disks.c References: <19980319171525.25110@follo.net> <22578.890329498@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <22578.890329498@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:44:58AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:44:58AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Give the poor users a break! They just select a disk, go through > > everything selecting the defaults (which work, until the install is > > complete). Then they reboot, and nothing work - their disklabel is > > hosed. > > > > This isn't even close to satisfying POLA. > > I didn't say it was a good thing, simply that the problem has been > known for some time and it's not hard to see how and where it would > happen. This has been around since at least 2.2.1, so if it doesn't > get fixed for 2.2.6 (which is coming up very soon here, in case nobody > noticed ;) then I'm not going to get especially choked up over it. It's been around since 2.1.0 at least. That's when I first got bitten by it (on my first install of FreeBSD, IIRC.). I've just seen more and more users getting bitten by it, so it's annoying me more and more. It tends to result in catastrophic failure, sometimes even on running systems (when people just want to add a partition). > > Uhm? As far as I can tell, this just requires not writing the > > bootblock if a disk is dangerously dedicated. This is information > > that should be easily available from libdisk - unfortunately, I > > couldn't find an easy way to get it. Is there some interaction here > > that I'm overlooking? > > I couldn't find any easy way to get at it either. If Poul-Henning has > some suggestions? I've CC:'ed him, since he doesn't read hackers. If there isn't any good way, I can do the changes necessary to create one (if one of you two are willing to review them for me). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 10:59:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from actcom.co.il (baum@actcom.co.il [192.114.47.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15273 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from baum@actcom.co.il) Received: from localhost by actcom.co.il with SMTP (8.8.6/actcom-0.2) id UAA20572; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:58:03 +0200 (EET) (rfc931-sender: baum@localhost) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:58:03 +0200 (EET) From: Alexander Indenbaum To: Gary Howland cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IPSec Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I'm CS undergraduate student. We are doing project which goal is to add IPSEC layer to the TCP/IP layers scheme on FreeBSD. After checking I found out that IPSec is already implemented under OpenBSD, so as a beginning we're probably going to port OpenBSD code to FreeBSD. Does anyone already working on it? I looked at OpenBSD but have not found any documentation except for man pages. BTW is there any chance of integrating IPSec code into FreeBSD source tree :{) ? Bottom line is that if you have something to tell me about the subject please email me. Any help is wellcomed. Alexander Indenbaum baum@actcom.co.il To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 11:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20619 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:30:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20494 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-s.isi.edu [128.9.192.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA02619; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:29:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803191929.LAA02619@tnt.isi.edu> To: Max Euston Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: Sentence/Line break question in man pages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:44:05 EST." <01BD5323.F2666700.meuston@jmrodgers.com> X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:29:09 -0800 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Max Euston wrote: >Sorry to be so pedantic, but... > >In a manual page, is there a way to specify a sentence break (i.e. 2 >spaces) when you are at the beginning of a line (e.g. after a '.Fl' that is >on its own line) so that I can get the following output: I'd try .Tn FIFO ". " ^^ >P.S. If there is a pointer on how to use the macros, I would be happy to >read that. I have been doing this by seeing what is currently done and >assuming what the macros stand for (yes I know what that makes me). 8-) If you haven't checked out the doc(7) man page, you should. I haven't seen a groff man page that says anything but "this documents diffs from unix troff" Is there documentation for troff (pic, refer, etc.) that ships with FreeBSD or is available somewhere? I have access to some paper docs for troff, but I'd prefer something on line. I know about the me and ms macro stuff in /usr/share/doc/usd . - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNRFyBIb4eisfQ5rpAQFAVgP7B8bPknTqzJ9R1KT/+wszqOk5wyGjrQV6 GrRq84yO6RuRb1nBj/vwV5whwE74BlYSe//1uPa2YSYOU5N4EtSaYbojmEdBZkSj /SD6z3z/t+u/VhgJ/Wz+FIu5uzCOtYNnzqkO6VuYBSF/7ZBSokRkz1qtcF/c+oGm JK1ih6Npyys= =n3XT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 11:41:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22278 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA16331; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:40:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980319134015.41485@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:40:15 -0600 From: dannyman To: Ted Faber , Max Euston Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: Re: Sentence/Line break question in man pages References: <01BD5323.F2666700.meuston@jmrodgers.com> <199803191929.LAA02619@tnt.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199803191929.LAA02619@tnt.isi.edu>; from Ted Faber on Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:29:09AM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:29:09AM -0800, Ted Faber wrote: > I haven't seen a groff man page that says anything but "this documents > diffs from unix troff" Is there documentation for troff (pic, refer, etc.) > that ships with FreeBSD or is available somewhere? I have access to > some paper docs for troff, but I'd prefer something on line. I know > about the me and ms macro stuff in /usr/share/doc/usd . afaik, the electronic troff docs had some copyright issue or something. perhaps though, if all of us with little bits of paper docs wanted to collaborate on some electronic docs, that could be useful. :) -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 11:50:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24303 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:50:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24256 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by gw.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19985; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:49:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:47:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD5345.F43980E0.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'Ted Faber'" Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: RE: Sentence/Line break question in man pages Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:47:32 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, March 19, 1998 2:29 PM, Ted Faber [SMTP:faber@ISI.EDU] wrote: > I'd try > > .Tn FIFO ". " > ^^ Actually that was already in there (with one trailing space), but it does not work. I've tried several ways to "escape" the space, but I can only get 1 or 3 spaces 8-(. I'm still experimenting, but this may be a tough problem. It seems that the existing man pages don't address this issue (they use 2 spaces between sentences, but use only 1 when ending a sentence with a macro). > > If you haven't checked out the doc(7) man page, you should. > I didn't see this one. I will check it out. Thanks, Max ----- Max Euston To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 12:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27267 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:03:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA06911; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006901; Thu Mar 19 12:02:33 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA01450; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199803192002.MAA01450@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: IPSec In-Reply-To: from Alexander Indenbaum at "Mar 19, 98 08:58:03 pm" To: baum@actcom.co.il (Alexander Indenbaum) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:02:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: gary@hotlava.com, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Indenbaum writes: > I'm CS undergraduate student. We are doing project which goal is > to add IPSEC layer to the TCP/IP layers scheme on FreeBSD. > > After checking I found out that IPSec is already implemented under > OpenBSD, so as a beginning we're probably going to port OpenBSD code > to FreeBSD. > > Does anyone already working on it? > > I looked at OpenBSD but have not found any documentation except > for man pages. > > BTW is there any chance of integrating IPSec code into FreeBSD source > tree :{) ? I for one would be interested in this project. I'd say if your code is written according to these principles, it has a very good chance of getting incorporated: - Cleanly formatted according to style(9) - Well documented - Orthogonal: if "options IPSEC" is not specified, then no extra garbage is included in a "normal" kernel. Minimal changes to existing files. - Works :-) - Written in such a way as to be easily understood and maintainable by a geographically (and otherwise) diverse crowd of FreeBSD hackers :-) -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 12:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29548 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29528 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:16:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02362; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803192015.MAA02362@rah.star-gate.com> To: Archie Cobbs cc: baum@actcom.co.il (Alexander Indenbaum), gary@hotlava.com, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: IPSec In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:02:28 PST." <199803192002.MAA01450@bubba.whistle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2359.890338557.1@rah> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:15:58 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG And I thought that someone in Japan had IPSec running on FreeBSD ... Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 13:07:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.jmrodgers.com ([205.247.224.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07864 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: from max.jmrodgers.com (max.jmrodgers.com [205.247.224.209]) by gw.jmrodgers.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA20668; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:56:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from meuston@jmrodgers.com) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:55:03 -0500 Message-ID: <01BD534F.617C4DA0.meuston@jmrodgers.com> From: Max Euston To: "'Max Euston'" , "'Ted Faber'" Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers'" Subject: RE: Sentence/Line break question in man pages Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:55:02 -0500 Organization: J.M. Rodgers Co., Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, March 19, 1998 2:48 PM, Max Euston [SMTP:meuston@jmrodgers.com] wrote: > On Thursday, March 19, 1998 2:29 PM, Ted Faber [SMTP:faber@ISI.EDU] wrote: > > I'd try > > > > .Tn FIFO ". " > > ^^ > Actually that was already in there (with one trailing space), but it does > not work. I've tried several ways to "escape" the space, but I can only > get 1 or 3 spaces 8-(. I'm still experimenting, but this may be a tough > problem. It seems that the existing man pages don't address this issue > (they use 2 spaces between sentences, but use only 1 when ending a sentence > with a macro). > > > > > If you haven't checked out the doc(7) man page, you should. > > > I didn't see this one. I will check it out. > I just started reading this - just what I was looking for - Thanks (actually mdoc(7) and mdoc.samples(7) :-)). I tried a few more variations and got the following to work: ".Tn FIFO . \& " (quotes added for clarity). ^ ^ ^ <--spaces There may be a "better" or "cleaner" way to do this, so I will keep reading and experimenting. Thanks, Max ----- Max Euston To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 15:16:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from slug.EUnet.pt (sj3-p10.telepac.pt [194.65.177.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24135 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) Received: from localhost (jmg@localhost) by slug.EUnet.pt (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA10256 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:15:36 GMT (envelope-from j@bug.fe.up.pt) X-Authentication-Warning: slug.EUnet.pt: jmg owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:15:36 +0000 (WET) From: freebsd@bug.fe.up.pt X-Sender: jmg@slug.EUnet.pt To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD stability Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This may sound a bit out of topic but I was browsing the pages of other Unix clone and they point out that their main development machine (delivers 100,000 e-mails per day, hosts the master FTP site which is accessed by the mirrors every day and is the "home" system for their 200 developers that compile, upload and download software) has been up for three months. They also tell the reader that another machine running the same Unix clone had been up for 458 days. I think that FreeBSD could have more fans (read users) if a survey was made (mainly for the ISPs running FreeBSD) stating the pros and cons of FreeBSD running under heavy load conditions (like wcarchive.cdrom.com). Thanks for reading, Jorge -- \\ Nobody can be exactly like me. \\ Jorge Miguel Goncalves \\ Sometimes even I have trouble \\ \\ doing it. \\ jmg (at) mail.EUnet.pt \\ \\ j (at) bug.fe.up.pt \\ -- Talluulah Bankhead \\ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 15:16:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24245 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24165 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24385; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:15:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3511A71B.4AAA77AA@dal.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:15:39 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk CC: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <9803190948.AA18457@symbionics.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Duncan Barclay wrote: > [snipped sensible stuff, similar to the way I have done it but > better] Thanks. :) > > I am open to questions, comments and suggestions of course. The script > > already does what I need it to so my feelings won't be hurt if it's not > > included in the distribution. However this request is made often and I > > think I have a good method here. I'd propose that it live in > > /usr/src/etc, and I would love for someone to come up with a more clever > > name for it. :) If y'all do choose to use this script, it's utility > > could be greatly increased by giving each of the files installed by the > > makefile a CVS $Id. I can provide details if anyone's interested. > > Something I do is to use lots of files like "rc.conf.local" and put > all of my site specific changes into these. That way the distribution > file can be updated easily. It may be worth mentioning this with > your code. Yes, a diff of the local changes that can be patched in is a good idea. I think a man page would be a better place to mention that though, and of course I'll write one if this gets adopted. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 15:20:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24855 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24803 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24405; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:20:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3511A827.5713B618@dal.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:20:07 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nik@iii.co.uk CC: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> <19980319105003.01742@iii.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nik@iii.co.uk wrote: > > [All IMHO] > > On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800, Studded wrote: > > Before I go on, yes I submitted a PR about this, > > Do you have the PR number handy? I haven't seen it float by me here. 6064 > > (probably using Nik's modified method of adding the date to the name of > > the directory) and adding an option to keep the diff around for the user > > to examine later. > > Based directly on a suggestion by Axel Thimm. I should probably make that > clearer in the text. Thanks, I'll be sure to note that. > > I'd propose that it live in /usr/src/etc, > > Nope. In theory there are no executables in /etc (the *ly scripts have > a historical precedent). *Shrug* I was thinking along the lines of keeping things together neatly, however you're probably right. /usr/bin is probably a better spot. > I think your best bet is to turn it into a port, Frankly I would rather have it adopted in the main distribution. However a port is certainly a good suggestion, thanks. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 15:23:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25760 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25697; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13498; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:22:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:00:58 +0100." <19980319160058.14256@follo.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:22:47 -0800 Message-ID: <13495.890349767@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of > the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? > Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on > initial install should make good upgrades much easier... Hmmmmm. I don't like this. I think we need to simply bite the bullet and make the user-mutable parts of the /etc configuration template based, as Paul Traina first suggested about, oh, 2 years ago. :-) Any takers? Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 15:29:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26986 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24449; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3511AA0C.7FD0067B@dal.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:28:12 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <3510CC73.307E199D@dal.net> <19980319160058.14256@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:42:43PM -0800, Studded wrote: > > One of the things that has been often requested is a method of > > automatically updating the files installed by /usr/src/etc/Makefile for > > the user. I have developed the following system based in part on the one > > in Nik Clayton's make world tutorial. > > http://www.nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk/FreeBSD/make-world/make-world.html > > It is still easier to do this correctly if you base yourself on having > a pristine version of the initial etc files available, There are more files to be considered besides what's in /etc. > and use 'merge' to do the actual merge. My concern with this was that there are so many different permutations possible (to get an idea, consider the case of someone who's updating a 2.1 system who has to make the /etc/sysconfig -> /etc/rc.conf change) that a single unified method of making the changes for the user was not possible. I felt that by eliminating the files that obviously do not need to be dealt with by hand (they will either be installed as is or deleted) what remains would not be so great a challenge for the user. The people who've helped me test it have generally concurred with my opinion. > This can be extracted from the CVS repository, but the users that have > that available probably isn't the primary target (except if they have > the CD-ROM, of course... :-) Heh, well, obviously we want something that will not require access to the repository. > Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of > the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? > Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on > initial install should make good upgrades much easier... I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:18:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06325 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:18:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06271; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24828; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:17:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3511B5B5.C9B61A37@dal.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:17:57 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <13495.890349767@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of > > the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? > > Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on > > initial install should make good upgrades much easier... > > Hmmmmm. I don't like this. I think we need to simply bite the bullet > and make the user-mutable parts of the /etc configuration template > based, as Paul Traina first suggested about, oh, 2 years ago. :-) Ok, the ports freeze is tomorrow I think, so pardon me for being pushy. :) Are you saying that you'd rather not move forward with a solution like I've proposed? That's fine with me if the timetable for getting something done about it will be less than two years. :) I don't mind making a port for the short term, but I'd rather not go through the work if someone's waiting in the wings to whip up a better solution. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:26:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07581 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:26:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07460 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:24:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19932 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:24:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:24:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-Reply-To: <199803191739.LAA04649@crocodile.vail> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Hal Snyder wrote: =>Whoa boy, we better run for cover now. There is SCO unix and there is UnixWare. My understanding is these are two different products. If they aren't, I don't really care. I am only talking about the UnixWare product here. There *are* some things which UnixWare has which we (FreeBSD) could take a lesson from. Tandem is using this as the base os for it's new non-stop clusters product because of its support for clustering. A "cluster" (in case you haven't had to keep up with this) is a group of computers linked together via a network. In Tandem's case, this network is ServerNet. I have seen this product demo'd, and have even helped design some of the demos. It is a really nice feature. In a nutshell, with clusters (as Tandem's NSK is using it, anyway) you can have a virtually unlimited number of boxes connected via the network, each of which can have multiple cpu's. You can start processes on one cpu on one box and migrate that process anywhere you like/need. The potential of this is staggering. The mail server is bogging down because of some other work going on the system? No problem, move the processes around. Okay, it's not that simple -- but I've seen it done and it's not that hard, either. Tandem is, of course, adding a lot of "custom" enhancements to the base product so it will support the fault-tolerance features which are part and parcel of the Tandem non-stop unix world. I can tell you, though, even though I don't like the news, and I don't like the meaning of the news, SCO *is* positioning itself quite well. This clustering technology is being supported by a rather impressive list of industry leaders with deep pockets. In addition, SCO already has the ability to run (some?!?) Windoze products. =>Here we run a mix of FreeBSD, SCO, and NT. FreeBSD systems run =>uptimes in hundreds of days. Of necessity, we've equipped the =>SCO systems with hardware to reboot them when they wedge - =>uptime averages 72 hours on the more active servers. I can understand the stability problems with SCO. It's not as stable as we are by any means, but it is getting better. A big part of it's "instability" has recently been decided upon. After a long battle, SCO was finally released from having to keep it's backward compatibility with xenix. The next version will be significantly more stable than the current one is, even if that is the only improvement made. =>NT isn't used for production servers, just desktop systems for =>the less technical users and guys/gals in suits. Cute. They threatened to make me use NT. The threat didn't last very long, though (thank goodness). I told them it seemed rather like a very large slap in the face to make a unix internals programmer work on an NT box. Sort of like making a Cadillac engineer drive a Yugo. Having said all of this, let me conclude with my feelings on FreeBSD in relation to all of this. I believe we can maintain a good and stable system which will have it's place in the industry. I'm quite happy with my fbsd systems. And the people here which I have given copies of fbsd to are also happy with it. (one of which upgraded from sco, in fact) But the industry is changing quite rapidly. I believe we need to step back and see where it is going and make some strategic decisions about where we want to see FreeBSD go. We have stability and security pretty well taken care of. I'm seeing some positive comments about smp in 3.0. But we might want to see about clustering and some fault-tolerant extensions. If we are proactive about this, we might just be able to catch the wave and take advantage of the new directions. Lee =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lee Crites www.adonai.net/~leec Tandem/Compaq (Austin) Adonai Services Company phone: 512-432-7112 phone: 512-789-7853 leec@austx.tandem.com leec@adonai.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09633 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:34:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09481; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:34:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12483; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:34:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Studded cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:17:57 PST." <3511B5B5.C9B61A37@dal.net> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:34:28 -0800 Message-ID: <12479.890354068@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, the ports freeze is tomorrow I think, so pardon me for being pushy. > :) Are you saying that you'd rather not move forward with a solution > like I've proposed? That's fine with me if the timetable for getting > something done about it will be less than two years. :) I don't mind I'm saying that the real solution here is to come up with something that encapsulates *all* the necessary information in a single file and then generate the "legacy" files from this one (perhaps only as a short-term thing, eventually phasing out the legacy files after people are comfortable with the other format). This would allow you to: 1. Express many things much more efficiently/powerfully than they are now - you wouldn't have to have a foo_enable, foo_command, foo_flags, etc. variables just to get foo to be customizable at startup, you'd simply have one "foo" with various properties attached in a more concise and powerful format than simple shell variables allow. 2. Separate the idea of "default value" and "changed value" for any given item, allowing truly automated merging of the "properties database." 3. Get past a number of evil limitations of the current scheme. Ever tried to put in ifconfig values for _multiple_ PCCARD ethernet cards, for example? Can't do it. How about configuring IPX values for an interface? Can't do it unless you abuse the "alias" mechanism. Or how about starting and configuring 3rd party things like upsd? You can start them (via /usr/local/etc/rc.d) but you can't set flags for them very easily. The list goes on. As the author of a number of the temporary bodges we're using right now (/etc/rc.conf and friends), I can say that they're exactly that - temporary bodges with numerous limitations. I was hoping we'd stop hacking out ever more temporary solutions to the /etc configuration problem someday and start thinking of something that actually SCALES worth a damn, but we clearly haven't gotten to that point yet. :) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10143 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10089 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12512; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:24:52 CST." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:38:12 -0800 Message-ID: <12508.890354292@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But the industry is changing quite rapidly. I believe we need to > step back and see where it is going and make some strategic > decisions about where we want to see FreeBSD go. We have > stability and security pretty well taken care of. I'm seeing > some positive comments about smp in 3.0. But we might want to > see about clustering and some fault-tolerant extensions. If we Heh. I think we first mentioned clustering as something on FreeBSD's wishlist as early as 1995 or so. The problem here is not in finding enough people to say "yeah, clustering is cool!", the problem here is in finding people to say "clustering is cool, please check out my FreeBSD implementation!" :-( Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:41:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:41:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10708 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:41:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA10159; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma010155; Thu Mar 19 16:40:20 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA06132; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:40:05 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199803200040.QAA06132@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol 47 In-Reply-To: <19980319012952.45187@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Mar 19, 98 01:29:52 am" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:40:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: jeff@netronix.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund writes: > On Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 04:26:55PM +0000, Jeff Buseman wrote: > > Finally, my question(s) is this: Is there some way to make NATd do > > the translation on this protocol, or does it only handle TCP and UDP > > traffic? > > It only handle TCP and UDP traffic. The only way to get it to handle > something else is by asking Charles or me to make libalias do so, preferably > with pointer to suitable documentation. I might find time to handle this > fairly quickly if you come up with docs. This would be pretty easy. Proto 47 is GRE [1, 2] and is used by PPTP [3]. Each packet has a two byte "Call ID" parameter you could use to multiplex the translated packets. -Archie References: [1] http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1701.txt [2] http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1702.txt [3] ftp://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pppext-pptp-02.txt ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:42:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10829; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12052; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:37:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:37:38 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Eivind Eklund , Studded , FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. In-Reply-To: <13495.890349767@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Hmmmmm. I don't like this. I think we need to simply bite the bullet > and make the user-mutable parts of the /etc configuration template > based, as Paul Traina first suggested about, oh, 2 years ago. :-) Speaking of which, why where the files in /usr/share/examples/etc removed sometime late '95? After much archive-searching, I can't even find the commit message referring to their removal, let alone any discussion... :( [There is a pr on this, hence my question :-] -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 16:45:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11917 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:45:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11696; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id TAA19428; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) id TAA04352; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:44:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:44:25 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Janowski Message-Id: <199803200044.TAA04352@fnur.3skel.com> To: eivind@yes.no, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. Cc: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, Studded@dal.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > Jordan - what's the chance of automatically getting a pristine copy of > > the /etc directory stored along the actual one, for later upgrades? > > Just making sysinstall copy all files in /etc into /etc/pristine on > > initial install should make good upgrades much easier... > > Hmmmmm. I don't like this. I think we need to simply bite the bullet > and make the user-mutable parts of the /etc configuration template > based, as Paul Traina first suggested about, oh, 2 years ago. :-) > > Any takers? > > Jordan By what do we mean template based? I have a running M4 based system that does rc.conf, uucp, ppp, and a bunch of other crap. I have also (a long time ago) made a mechanism oriented around a /etc/config directory similar to the IRIX 'chkconfig' mechanism. What form would templates take? Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 17:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18678; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19653; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:26:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: eivind@yes.no, FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, Studded@dal.net Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:44:25 EST." <199803200044.TAA04352@fnur.3skel.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:26:42 -0800 Message-ID: <19649.890357202@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > By what do we mean template based? I have a running M4 based > system that does rc.conf, uucp, ppp, and a bunch of other crap. > I have also (a long time ago) made a mechanism oriented around > a /etc/config directory similar to the IRIX 'chkconfig' > mechanism. That's one way - I'm basically thinking of a system that will allow you, for each given entity, to specify: 1. A documentation string for it. 2. An enable bit ("am I enabled?") 3. One or more commands and their arguments to run when the feature is enabled. 4. The default setting for the feature if not set. 5. Any other entities this one depends on (so you can not enable feature z if x and y are not). Whether that's done with m4 or something more complex is up to the implementor. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 18:09:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25519 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:09:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25484 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20592; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:08:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:08:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-Reply-To: <12508.890354292@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: =>Heh. I think we first mentioned clustering as something on =>FreeBSD's wishlist as early as 1995 or so. The problem here is =>not in finding enough people to say "yeah, clustering is =>cool!", the problem here is in finding people to say =>"clustering is cool, please check out my FreeBSD =>implementation!" :-( While Jordan is probably correct (I wasn't around in '95 to see the wishlist), I'm thinking it is a little more complicated than that. First off, I don't know where the "wishlist" is, if, indeed, it exists as an entity which can be "seen." I really haven't done a lot of tinkering around in the web pages, so it might be there and I just haven't seen it. Second, I don't think anyone will just present something as complicated as clustering to the group and say: "clustering is cool, please check out my FreeBSD implementation!" There has to be a lot of groundwork laid and a fair amount of emphasis from the top down before any person (or group of people) would take on something of that size. Now I think I understand what Jordan was getting at -- FreeBSD is self supported and that if we don't do it, nobody else will. But I also don't think anyone will go out of their way to do something unless they see some direction for it. Third, the potential list of "somebodies" who could really "do the job" is fairly limited. While I do have a copy of the entire tree available to me, it is really those of the core team which are doing the bulk of the development. Somewhat over a year ago I sent out my second message offering to help on a project. It was literally the first time I had offered free help and had the offer turned down. Jordan responded to my message of dismay concerning that situation with a description of the core team and how it worked -- along with an offer to help me get some stuff going (thanks, Jordan). Since that time, though, I have seen several others (including a college senior who wanted to do something for his senior project) who made similar comments. This third point isn't all bad. Part of the reason (I think) fbsd is as stable as it is, is because of the limited group of submitters. You have tighter control over what does and doesn't make it into the code base. This is not bad. The quality control is, in fact, good. But you have to take both sides of that coin. What someone like me would have to do is develop something, lock, stock, and barrel, then present it -- as an outsider -- to someone on the inside, which I will have to convince to take it on, in order to get it approved and integrated. I'll do that for something rather small. Perhaps a driver or utility. But, quite frankly, I won't put in the time to do anything close to clusters without some significant support from the "inside." So we're back to my original comment: those people who control the direction of FreeBSD need to take a step back and see where the industry is moving and see where they want it to be. Perhaps you already have, and if I saw the "wishlist" I'd know it... Lee =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lee Crites www.adonai.net/~leec Tandem/Compaq (Austin) Adonai Services Company phone: 512-432-7112 phone: 512-789-7853 leec@austx.tandem.com leec@adonai.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 18:44:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02820 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:44:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02598 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20903 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:43:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:43:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Majordomo results: who (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I got a message which said to check with so-and-so about some fbsd information. "No problem," I think, "I'll just ask majordomo for the addresses and send him an email." So I send a message to majordomo@freebsd.org with "who freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message. Here is what I got back: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Majordomo results: who >>>> who freebsd-hackers **** Command 'who' not recognized. >>>> end END OF COMMANDS **** Help for Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG: [deleted a bunch of stuff, including most of the included help message] who Find out who is on the named . [well, the who command *is* the right one to use] So, guys, what is the command for freebsd's version of majordomo which gives me a list of the users? Thanks muchly... Lee To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 18:48:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:48:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03154 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20036; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:48:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:08:49 CST." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:48:25 -0800 Message-ID: <20031.890362105@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > First off, I don't know where the "wishlist" is, if, indeed, it > exists as an entity which can be "seen." I really haven't done a Not really, it's more of a collective conciousness thing - the sum total of all the various "gee, wouldn't it be neat if..." postings that go through -hackers and -current. > Second, I don't think anyone will just present something as > complicated as clustering to the group and say: "clustering is > cool, please check out my FreeBSD implementation!" There has to > be a lot of groundwork laid and a fair amount of emphasis from > the top down before any person (or group of people) would take on > something of that size. Now I think I understand what Jordan was Fair enough, but I'm also not sure that there's anyone "at the top" who's even done this kind of work so you're not likely to get any genuine leadership there. We're a pretty sharp bunch of guys as they go, but our talents don't extend into every domain of computer science. :) If someone wanted to take on a leadership role with something as substantive as clustering, I'd say they'd simply be given the reins and told to go for it, much as John Fieber was with the Web pages or John Birrell with the Alpha port. You don't need to be a member of core to lead a substantive effort in FreeBSD - far from it. > Third, the potential list of "somebodies" who could really "do > the job" is fairly limited. While I do have a copy of the entire > tree available to me, it is really those of the core team which > are doing the bulk of the development. Somewhat over a year ago The bulk of the development in certain areas, yes, but see above for at least one of those areas for which core really can't be relied upon for leadership. > I sent out my second message offering to help on a project. It > was literally the first time I had offered free help and had the > offer turned down. Jordan responded to my message of dismay I'm not sure it was quite that cut-and-dried, though my memory on this one fades. I think it was more a case of you wishing to help and us having nobody lined up *for* you to help, so we had to simply say "uh, there's no existing team for you to play on, sorry!" > What someone like me would have to do is develop something, lock, > stock, and barrel, then present it -- as an outsider -- to > someone on the inside, which I will have to convince to take it > on, in order to get it approved and integrated. I'll do that for > something rather small. Perhaps a driver or utility. But, quite > frankly, I won't put in the time to do anything close to clusters > without some significant support from the "inside." I think all of us would like to see clustering, just as we'd all like to see FreeBSD running on the ALPHA or the SPARC. However, just as is the case in those two examples, we lack the manpower physically within core to do anything substantive about it and have to rely on outside leadership to take things forward. If you came up with a really decent clustering implementation which didn't bodge the heck out of FreeBSD then I think there'd be no question about it being brought in. If you made a real hash out of it then, on the other hand, I daresay you'd be first among those asking that it be left out of the tree until a superior solution could be implemented. It really comes down to quality of work, and (for the most part) this is no different than things are done under Linux. Somebody writes something that the users really like and sticks it on an FTP site someplace and, given a little time, it becomes canon. If the users turn their noses up at it, on the other hand, then the choice is also pretty clear. > So we're back to my original comment: those people who control > the direction of FreeBSD need to take a step back and see where > the industry is moving and see where they want it to be. We'd like FreeBSD to be many places and many things. The issue still remains, however, a far more pragmatic assessment of where we CAN be. It does no good to wish for pie-in-the-sky features that have little chance of happening when we could be spending our time in pursuit of far more tangible goals. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 18:54:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04412 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:54:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20103; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:54:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Majordomo results: who (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:43:07 CST." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:54:32 -0800 Message-ID: <20100.890362472@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So I send a message to majordomo@freebsd.org with "who > freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message. Here is what I got > back: We disabled this to prevent spammers from sucking down the list subscribership. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 18:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04684 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04664 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26235; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:56:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:56:33 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199803200256.SAA26235@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-Reply-To: References: <12508.890354292@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >First off, I don't know where the "wishlist" is, if, indeed, it >exists as an entity which can be "seen." I really haven't done a >lot of tinkering around in the web pages, so it might be there >and I just haven't seen it. Want a good wishlist? Here it is: 1. Sit down in front of a FreeBSD system. 2. Log in. 3. Do whatever it is that interests you. 4. What, in step (3), annoyed you, either via wrong behaviour (e.g., a bug, or incorrect behaviour) or via missing behaviour? 5. Fix whatever you said in step (4). That is basicly what I do. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 19:04:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:04:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06172 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:03:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20196 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:04:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:56:33 PST." <199803200256.SAA26235@kithrup.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:04:07 -0800 Message-ID: <20193.890363047@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Want a good wishlist? Here it is: > > 1. Sit down in front of a FreeBSD system. > 2. Log in. > 3. Do whatever it is that interests you. > 4. What, in step (3), annoyed you, either via wrong behaviour (e.g., a bug, > or incorrect behaviour) or via missing behaviour? > 5. Fix whatever you said in step (4). > > That is basicly what I do. This is also, I might add, how about 90% of all serious work in FreeBSD gets done. It's rare indeed that a developer dives on something just because it needs doing and somebody read it to him off a TODO list. Far more often, they do it because it annoys them *personally*, there being no better motivator that I know of. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 19:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:54:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12906 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yFsWc-0001J0-00; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:31:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:31:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Lee Crites (AEI) wrote: > Second, I don't think anyone will just present something as > complicated as clustering to the group and say: "clustering is > cool, please check out my FreeBSD implementation!" There has to This is happening though. Somone has stated on a list that someone is building a fault-tolerant cluster. He has already contstructed a distributed lock manager so that members of the clusters can use shared resources. Apparently, he is now using this for a shared drive array. Probably just accessing it as a raw device now. Pretty cool stuff. There is also the Coda project. Kinda cool stuff too. Since clients can operate disconnected from the Coda file server, it has some fault-tolerant aspects too. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 21:06:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22139 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21858; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:06:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:06:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-Reply-To: <20193.890363047@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: =>This is also, I might add, how about 90% of all serious work in =>FreeBSD gets done. It's rare indeed that a developer dives on =>something just because it needs doing and somebody read it to =>him off a TODO list. Far more often, they do it because it =>annoys them *personally*, there being no better motivator that =>I know of. :-) I guess I have to apologize, then. I was under the impression that things were a little more organized/structured. I thought there was some core team who periodically met/communicated on what was what and where things should go, and how we should get there. So I am now curious about how FreeBSD maintains it's cohesiveness and direction. If people are working on things which annoy them, then how are new features implemented? Who decides what to add and how to add it? Is it pure anarchy, with each person moving in the direction they personally feel they should go? This is an important point to me. I've been selling my idea of a consolidated core team as I have described earlier. While I guess it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, I *would* like to be making accurate statements. Shucks, if it's really that open, I might just try my hand at a few of the changes I've thought about... Lee =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lee Crites www.adonai.net/~leec Tandem/Compaq (Austin) Adonai Services Company phone: 512-432-7112 phone: 512-789-7853 leec@austx.tandem.com leec@adonai.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 21:23:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24523 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:23:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24503 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:23:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05071; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199803200523.VAA05071@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-Reply-To: References: <20193.890363047@time.cdrom.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >I thought >there was some core team who periodically met/communicated on >what was what and where things should go, and how we should get >there. Not really. About the only thing being on the core team gets you is the ability to add code that people object to and yet ignore those protests (cf. PHK's idiotic revival of u.ar0 and u.ar1, albeit under different names -- but with the same problems and shortsightedness of the original). >So I am now curious about how FreeBSD maintains it's cohesiveness >and direction. If people are working on things which annoy them, >then how are new features implemented? Who decides what to add >and how to add it? Is it pure anarchy, with each person moving >in the direction they personally feel they should go? Pretty much. I added truss because it was the easiest program to use procfs. I wrote (well, mostly wrote) procfs because I wanted to. I wrote ptrace() because it was the first step in implementing procfs. About the *only* thing I did that I had not originally felt a desire to do was the vm86 support. I did that because Jordan managed to convince BSDi to donate the code. But, even so, I didn't throw myself into it enough that I was able to do it by myself -- rather, Mike Smith ended up handling the user mode, and we exchanged a *LOT* of email :). Obviously, I can't speak for everyone. But a large number of people work that way. If there is something you don't like in FreeBSD (and that includes a missing feature)... then the best way is to just jump into it. If you're working in an already-complex subsystem, then there are people to ask questions of. John Dyson, for example, if you're doing VM stuff. I have my own people to ask for some of the stuff I don't know about (although, I will be honest, I do take shameless advantage of personal friendships with the ex-CSRG folks :)). >Shucks, if it's really that open, I might just try my hand at a >few of the changes I've thought about... Go for it. Send your patches out, either to a list or via GNATS or to an interested individual with checkin priv's. Do it enough, and get the ability yourself :). And that truly is all. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 21:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28418 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:49:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28409 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:49:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15135; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:43:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803200543.VAA15135@implode.root.com> To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:06:06 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:43:45 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I guess I have to apologize, then. I was under the impression >that things were a little more organized/structured. I thought >there was some core team who periodically met/communicated on >what was what and where things should go, and how we should get >there. > >So I am now curious about how FreeBSD maintains it's cohesiveness >and direction. If people are working on things which annoy them, >then how are new features implemented? Who decides what to add >and how to add it? Is it pure anarchy, with each person moving >in the direction they personally feel they should go? I think Jordan and Sean summed things up fairly well, but I should add that there is a fair amount of behind the scenes communication that does provide some level of organization and structure. It does tend to be somewhat sporadic, however. I've tried to make it my job to provide a small level of coordination at times, and most of the core team put out hints periodically about the direction we'd like to see FreeBSD go. I think this is all that can be reasonably expected from an all volunteer project. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 23:12:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10355 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:12:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA10350 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:12:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21157; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:12:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:06:06 CST." Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:12:52 -0800 Message-ID: <21153.890377972@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I guess I have to apologize, then. I was under the impression > that things were a little more organized/structured. I thought > there was some core team who periodically met/communicated on > what was what and where things should go, and how we should get > there. Nope, not really. I occasionally rant at people about things I think *really* need doing (the [in]famous story of my bounce buffer rant still being told to this day :) but anything people actually do about it is still voluntary, however much I or anyone else might jump up and down. > So I am now curious about how FreeBSD maintains it's cohesiveness > and direction. If people are working on things which annoy them, > then how are new features implemented? Who decides what to add People often get annoyed by the lack of new features. :) > and how to add it? Is it pure anarchy, with each person moving > in the direction they personally feel they should go? Basically, yes. The core team essentially provides the cohesion by deciding which of these new features follows the "spirit" of FreeBSD and make technical sense, David (our principal architect) providing the tie-breaking vote in any close decisions. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 23:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11259 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11245 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:18:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21210 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 21:23:22 PST." <199803200523.VAA05071@kithrup.com> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:18:27 -0800 Message-ID: <21206.890378307@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Not really. About the only thing being on the core team gets you is the > ability to add code that people object to and yet ignore those protests (cf. > PHK's idiotic revival of u.ar0 and u.ar1, albeit under different names -- but > with the same problems and shortsightedness of the original). Actually, this isn't precisely true. If you tender your objections a little more "officially", e.g. ask David Greenman as the principal architect for an intervention when/if you feel that some core team member is being an idiot, then you'll generally get some sort of action on it. Simply saying "this is bogus! back it out!" in -hackers is pretty much guaranteed to elicit no response since the Somebody Else's Problem effect takes over at that point and everyone figures that somebody else is going to contact Poul-Henning and argue it out with him. A more specific plea to David, listing all the reasons why you feel the change to have been in error, is definitely the way to go in cases like this. If David agrees with you, he'll tell phk to back the change out and that will be that (compliance with a request by David is mandatory and he's free to simply back out any change directly if the core team member in question isn't being cooperative). Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 19 23:45:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14533 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:45:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14516 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:44:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA16107; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:39:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803200739.XAA16107@implode.root.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:18:27 PST." <21206.890378307@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:39:39 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >it out with him. A more specific plea to David, listing all the >reasons why you feel the change to have been in error, is definitely >the way to go in cases like this. If David agrees with you, he'll >tell phk to back the change out and that will be that (compliance with >a request by David is mandatory and he's free to simply back out any >change directly if the core team member in question isn't being >cooperative). I should point out that I've never had to go as far as ripping something out personally. Which reminds me, what is the current state of tcl in 3.x? :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 00:06:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17083 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:06:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17076 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:06:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA17410 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:08:39 GMT Message-ID: <003201bd53d6$b08ed7a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: mremap? Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:03:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would there be any interest in allowing it into -current? mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. -Alfred btw, i'm planning on implementing it like the linux mremap(), although there is some talk in the linux man page for it about a BSD version that was never done... if anyone would rather i try to do that i can look into it if someone can get me a man page to the BSD proposed version. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 00:24:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trinity.radio-do.de (trinity.Radio-do.de [193.101.164.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19009 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:24:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@trinity.radio-do.de) Received: (from fn@localhost) by trinity.radio-do.de (8.8.8/8.8.5/RADIO-1.1) id JAA17558; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:24:41 +0100 (CET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Where to put source for a new ethernet card driver From: Frank Nobis Date: 20 Mar 1998 09:24:40 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 22 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Hackers, I am currently working on a port of the linux driver for a Schneider & Koch SK G16 ethernet card. It is an older ISA modell, but I have a bunch of them and need to support them :-/ At first I made two files if_skg16.[ch] to do the work. But the longer I tried it and took code segments from the ed driver it come to me that putting support for the SK G16 into he ed driver might be a good idea. What is your opinion about that? Should we blow up the the ed driver more and more or clutter around a bunch of standalone drivers? Regards Frank -- Frank Nobis Email: PGP AVAILABLE Landgrafenstr. 130 dg3dcn http://www.radio-do.de/~fn/ 44139 Dortmund Powered by FreeBSD Fax: +49 231 7213816 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 00:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19485 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA16416; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:22:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803200822.AAA16416@implode.root.com> To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mremap? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:03:38 EST." <003201bd53d6$b08ed7a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:22:53 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would >there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > >mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. Yes, I think so. I'm not aware of any proposed mremap in BSD; most or all of the m* system calls in BSD were inspired by the SunOS implementation, and last I checked, SunOS doesn't have mremap. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 00:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21512 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21506 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA17116 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:52:10 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 17078; Fri Mar 20 10:51:16 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199803200850.KAA04433@cdsec.com> Subject: re: FreeBSD stability To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:50:53 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This may sound a bit out of topic but I was browsing > the pages of other Unix clone and they point out that > their main development machine (delivers 100,000 > e-mails per day, hosts the master FTP site which is > accessed by the mirrors every day and is the "home" > system for their 200 developers that compile, > upload and download software) has been up for > three months. > > They also tell the reader that another machine > running the same Unix clone had been up for 458 days. While it isn't quite comparable, our firewall software runs on FreeBSD. In December I upgraded a client from v1.x to v2.0. The client's site has about 1000 users behind the firewall, who seem to spend most of their time browsing the web and sending e-mail. I was pleased to see that the v1.x software (running on FreeBSD 2.1.5 at that stage) had been up and running for about 8 months since the last reboot. I don't think that that is unusual for our firewall sites, either. But then, that, plus its excellent performance (esp. networking) is why we chose to use FreeBSD in the first place (and quickly abandoned our initial flirtation with the `other' UNIX clone...) We have other clients who have thrown out Firewall-1 and replaced it with our firewall running on cheaper hardware because using F-1 their network utilisation was so poor. I'm not claiming credit for this; it's thanks to the FreeBSD team. When Slackware '96 was released, I committed the heresy of replacing my FreeBSD with Slackware (I wanted those cool Linuxy things like DOS emulation). Just after installing, I ran elm. It took so long to load up my mailbox that I reinstalled FreeBSD the same day... As we say in South Africa, `Viva, FreeBSD, Viva!'. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 00:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21716 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:48:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21707 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA17193 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:54:10 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 17155; Fri Mar 20 10:53:24 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199803200853.KAA04441@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: IPSec To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:53:02 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forwarded message: > > Alexander Indenbaum writes: > > I'm CS undergraduate student. We are doing project which goal is > > to add IPSEC layer to the TCP/IP layers scheme on FreeBSD. > > > > After checking I found out that IPSec is already implemented under > > OpenBSD, so as a beginning we're probably going to port OpenBSD code > > to FreeBSD. > > > > Does anyone already working on it? > > > > I looked at OpenBSD but have not found any documentation except > > for man pages. > > > > BTW is there any chance of integrating IPSec code into FreeBSD source > > tree :{) ? > > I for one would be interested in this project. It's been done; see www.itojun.org. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 02:15:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 02:15:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02003 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 02:15:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.12-nospam) with ESMTP id LAA12370; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:14:59 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id LAA02406; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980320111347.GL52250@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:47 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: baum@actcom.co.il (Alexander Indenbaum) Cc: gary@hotlava.com (Gary Howland), FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPSec References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from Alexander Indenbaum on Mar 19, 1998 20:58:03 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Alexander Indenbaum: > After checking I found out that IPSec is already implemented under > OpenBSD, so as a beginning we're probably going to port OpenBSD code > to FreeBSD. > > Does anyone already working on it? IPSEC for FreeBSD would really be a nice thing to have ! Meanwhile, you can use the SKIP package which is a very similar approach but AFAIK isn't 100% IPsec compatible (uses protocol number 57). There's also the INRIA IPv6 code which seems to implement bits and pieces of IPsec. I don't the code well enough yet to know if it's only IPsec/IPv6 or if it does IPsec/IPv4 too. I also don't know if it's functional yet (there's something in the TODO list about testing it). It's distributed without stuff like MD5/SHA/DES due to the ridiculous french law on cryptography control, but it shouldn't be very difficult to put that back in based on freely distributable versions, all the hooks are already in. Maybe you can try their patches for FreeBSD 2.2.5 and see if there's a lot of work involved in making it work for IPv4 too. It's available at ftp://ftp.inria.fr/network/ipv6/. I'm currently porting this to -current and might have a look at the IPsec part too, once I've got basic IPv6 functionalities working. -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 03:01:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06341 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA06335 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA04297; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:21:48 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803200921.KAA04297@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: newmsdosfs anyone ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:21:47 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i am in the need of creating a formatted MSDOS filesystem on >512MB disks from FreeBSD. One option i used was mtools but only for small disks, and i am not sure how it works with larger disks. In any case, i was wondering if there is some smaller code doing only the formatting part of the work... thanks luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 04:33:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17845 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:33:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pb.petrolbank.com ([195.90.180.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17713 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from decebal@moldnet.md) From: decebal@moldnet.md Received: from localhost (decebal@localhost) by pb.petrolbank.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07446 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:33:23 +0300 (MSK) X-Authentication-Warning: pb.petrolbank.com: decebal owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:33:23 +0300 (MSK) X-Sender: decebal@pb.petrolbank.com Reply-To: decebal@moldnet.md To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Digi Exp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I post this letter one time but noone replay me. Please tell me if i poste it on wrong maillist. Thank you Decebal > > HI. > > I am new here and if you think that my question is not related to > main goal of this mail-list, please excuse me. > > During few months i was looking for drivers for Digi Xem board and i > relised that FreeBSD didn't support it. > But i found BSDi drivers for Digi Xem and here is my question: > > Is there any way to link (or load) driver for Digi Xem that was compiled > under BSDI? as i know binaries of FreeBSD and BSDi are compatible but i > am not shure that it will be the same with kernel drivers. > > Thank you in advance. > Decebal > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 04:51:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21316 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21310 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19134; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:52:51 GMT Message-ID: <008701bd53fe$65c12fc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , Subject: Re: Digi Exp Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:47:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG no, you can't do this, are you sure we don't support this? -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: decebal@moldnet.md To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 3:41 AM Subject: Digi Exp > > >I post this letter one time but noone replay me. >Please tell me if i poste it on wrong maillist. >Thank you > >Decebal > >> >> HI. >> >> I am new here and if you think that my question is not related to >> main goal of this mail-list, please excuse me. >> >> During few months i was looking for drivers for Digi Xem board and i >> relised that FreeBSD didn't support it. >> But i found BSDi drivers for Digi Xem and here is my question: >> >> Is there any way to link (or load) driver for Digi Xem that was compiled >> under BSDI? as i know binaries of FreeBSD and BSDi are compatible but i >> am not shure that it will be the same with kernel drivers. >> >> Thank you in advance. >> Decebal >> >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 06:49:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05501 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25731; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:49:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:49:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: David Greenman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wishlists (was Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry)) In-Reply-To: <199803200543.VAA15135@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, David Greenman wrote: =>I think this is all that can be reasonably expected from an all =>volunteer project. Fair enough. I can understand the difficulty of organizing a group of volunteers. Thanks for the input. Lee =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lee Crites www.adonai.net/~leec Tandem/Compaq (Austin) Adonai Services Company phone: 512-432-7112 phone: 512-789-7853 leec@austx.tandem.com leec@adonai.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 07:18:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:18:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pb.petrolbank.com ([195.90.180.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08408 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:17:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from decebal@moldnet.md) From: decebal@moldnet.md Received: from localhost (decebal@localhost) by pb.petrolbank.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00448; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:16:31 +0300 (MSK) X-Authentication-Warning: pb.petrolbank.com: decebal owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:16:31 +0300 (MSK) X-Sender: decebal@pb.petrolbank.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Digi Exp In-Reply-To: <008701bd53fe$65c12fc0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > no, you can't do this, are you sure we don't support this? > Yes FreeBSD doesn't support Xem. FreeBSD suport Xe board that is not like Xem. I compiled Xe driver and kernel was not able to init the board. Well, Linux has sources for Digi Xem and all Digi boards for all buses but i am just beginer and will not be able to port them to FreeBSD. Decebal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 08:13:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:13:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16558 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29439; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:09:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803201609.IAA29439@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Lee Crites (AEI)" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:38:12 PST." <12508.890354292@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:09:32 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > But the industry is changing quite rapidly. I believe we need to > > step back and see where it is going and make some strategic > > decisions about where we want to see FreeBSD go. We have > > stability and security pretty well taken care of. I'm seeing > > some positive comments about smp in 3.0. But we might want to > > see about clustering and some fault-tolerant extensions. If we > > Heh. I think we first mentioned clustering as something on FreeBSD's > wishlist as early as 1995 or so. The problem here is not in finding > enough people to say "yeah, clustering is cool!", the problem here is > in finding people to say "clustering is cool, please check out my > FreeBSD implementation!" :-( No, the problem is finding people to say "wow, I have checked out this FreeBSD clustering implementation and I think it s". Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. If we have someone that actually feels "proactive" about clustering, then I suggest they approach Ron solicitously and get something happening. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 08:42:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23523 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29607; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:38:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803201638.IAA29607@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mremap? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:03:38 EST." <003201bd53d6$b08ed7a0$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:38:29 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their VM system). I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be able to pull it off. > btw, i'm planning on implementing it like the linux mremap(), although there > is some talk in the linux man page for it about a BSD version that was never > done... if anyone would rather i try to do that i can look into it if > someone can get me a man page to the BSD proposed version. If BSD/OS or NetBSD has mremap(), we would probably want to look like theirs and support the Linux model via ABI emulation. Otherwise, I can't see any reason not to simply be slavishly compatible. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 08:42:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23719 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23524; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Mike Smith cc: "Lee Crites (AEI)" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:09:32 PST." <199803201609.IAA29439@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:26 -0800 Message-ID: <23521.890412146@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no longer a bottleneck for him. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 08:44:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:44:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24248 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09208; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:44:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? In-Reply-To: <199803200921.KAA04297@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How about mkdosfs(1)? Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 08:45:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24662 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24546 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:45:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA14464; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:41:51 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <35129C46.CA603FE6@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:41:43 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Organization: GlavAPU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Lee Crites (AEI)" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) References: <199803201609.IAA29439@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > ? ? But the industry is changing quite rapidly. I believe we need to > ? ? step back and see where it is going and make some strategic > ? ? decisions about where we want to see FreeBSD go. We have > ? ? stability and security pretty well taken care of. I'm seeing > ? ? some positive comments about smp in 3.0. But we might want to > ? ? see about clustering and some fault-tolerant extensions. If we > ? > ? Heh. I think we first mentioned clustering as something on FreeBSD's > ? wishlist as early as 1995 or so. The problem here is not in finding > ? enough people to say "yeah, clustering is cool!", the problem here is > ? in finding people to say "clustering is cool, please check out my > ? FreeBSD implementation!" :-( > > No, the problem is finding people to say "wow, I have checked out this > FreeBSD clustering implementation and I think it ?verb?s". > > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. > Hmm. I know nothing about this and I'm ready to try this. Can I see http://www.freebsd.org/cluster in near future ? > If we have someone that actually feels "proactive" about clustering, > then I suggest they approach Ron solicitously and get something > happening. 8) > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 09:03:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29960 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29875 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:02:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id LAA20535; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:59:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:01:57 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mike Smith , "Lee Crites (AEI)" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-Reply-To: <23521.890412146@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > longer a bottleneck for him. Ill second that! Maybe we'll see clustering maybe we wont :) But At least we can offer those doing the work the chance to take their, in this case, cluster work and integrate it with little overhead, when the code meets the specs. I think of projects that have been done to add funtionality and more than anything just selling points and buzzwords, for isntance gene starks DSM for FBSD. It would have had some useage somewhere im sure, but for most of us, not really. But It was work done and completed, just never integrated into the src. That really isnt a good point since even if it had been intergrated i doubt gene would be hacking on it to keep it cruft free and working. So maybe thats a bad example :) But ron will probably keep his cluster code working and compilable, so I think jordans idea is a good one, even if this was a long winded way to say it. Oh and wine and woman usually are the 2 standard exploits for most of us :) ./wine -red -exploit ron ./women -seduce -3on1 ron Source is freely availble! Chris -- "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 09:05:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00661 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:05:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00536 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA30863; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:56:40 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA28066; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:16:56 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id SAA01354; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:03:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980320180336.54319@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:03:36 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) References: <199803201609.IAA29439@dingo.cdrom.com> <23521.890412146@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <23521.890412146@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 08:42:26AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Organization: PROSA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > longer a bottleneck for him. http://www.sarnoff.com:8000/docs/metacomputing.html Nudge, nudge. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 09:36:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08332 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08269 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:35:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA04815; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:40:30 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803201540.QAA04815@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:40:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Snob Art Genre" at Mar 20, 98 11:43:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How about mkdosfs(1)? so much for not having appropriate manpages... prova# which mkdosfs /usr/sbin/mkdosfs prova# man -k msdos | grep mkdosfs prova# man -k FAT mkdosfs(1) - create an MS-DOS (FAT) file system no need to say i did not think to run man -k FAT before asking... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 09:39:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08724 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:39:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08704; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA02064; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:38:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980320113849.20091@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:38:49 -0600 From: dannyman To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: apologies for mail loop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, for about two hours this morning, i had a bad bad bad bad majordomo recipe which was causing every piece of mail I received to be auto-responded to. i would like to apologise for any crap spewed upon the lists because of this. i feel pretty dumb. sorry everyone. -dan -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 10:01:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13532 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:01:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (196-31-98-38.iafrica.com [196.31.98.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13510 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA02445; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:59:50 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199803201759.TAA02445@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? In-Reply-To: <199803200921.KAA04297@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Mar 20, 98 10:21:47 am" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:59:49 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: rnordier@iafrica.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > i am in the need of creating a formatted MSDOS filesystem on >512MB > disks from FreeBSD. > > One option i used was mtools but only for small disks, and i am not > sure how it works with larger disks. In any case, i was wondering if > there is some smaller code doing only the formatting part of the work... > > thanks > luigi The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. I have a revised mkdosfs (the current FreeBSD one only does floppies) which I've been meaning to polish and submit, anyway. This handles FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32. If you want to review/test it, I can send it to you by the end of next week. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 10:48:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25311 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA25303 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA05191; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:10:38 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803201710.SAA05191@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? To: rnordier@iafrica.com Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:10:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803201759.TAA02445@ceia.nordier.com> from "Robert Nordier" at Mar 20, 98 07:59:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. 3.8 or later ? > I have a revised mkdosfs (the current FreeBSD one only does floppies) > which I've been meaning to polish and submit, anyway. This handles > FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32. If you want to review/test it, I can send > it to you by the end of next week. yes i'd be interested. I have patches (for mtools 3.0) to support HDs (but only up to 512MB) and make them bootable in DOS or Windows95 (you need a DOS/Win licence, and you need to grab the init files and boot sector and put them into /usr/local/lib/mtools... Would you be interested to integrate that as well ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 10:54:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26707 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA26169; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA05208; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:14:52 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803201714.SAA05208@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: patch for Vibra16X -- test please! To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:14:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [forgive me for the crosspost but I'm trying to get some feedback quickly... since this might go into -stable and the deadline is close...] By popular demand, enclosed is a small patch to hopefully add PARTIAL Vibra16X support for playback (there is also some still non-functional code for the ESS -- don't worry about that bu i prefer not to handcraft the patchfile). This is mostly derived from code contributed by Torsten Ackemann. The diff is against snd980215 which is essentially what is now in -current and -stable. The modified files are only sb_dsp.c and sbcard.h Note that, assuming this code works at all: * it might affect plain SB16 support, so I'd like to have feedback from someone with the SB16 (it should still work fine); * it only works in playback; we haven't figured out yet how to tell capture from playback interrupts. And I have not been successful in getting documentation from Creative or Realtek (the latter make a Vibra16X clone). * you might have to add the PnP vend_id of your card near the end of sb_dsp.c -- there is a comment marked with VIBRA16X in this patch in the point where you should make the addition. As usual, feedback is not only welcome but absolutely necessay since I don't have a Vibra16X or clone. I need to know both if it works and if it not works. Do not forget to give details about your card (e.g. brand, PnP vendor ID) cheers luigi diff -ubwr snd/sb_dsp.c /sys/i386/isa/snd/sb_dsp.c --- snd/sb_dsp.c Tue Jan 27 21:01:49 1998 +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sb_dsp.c Fri Mar 20 19:32:52 1998 @@ -275,9 +275,12 @@ * SB < 4.0 is half duplex and has only 1 bit for int source, * so we fake it. SB 4.x (SB16) has the int source in a separate * register. + * The Vibra16X has separate flags for 8 and 16 bit transfers, but + * I have no idea how to tell capture from playback interrupts... */ +#define PLAIN_SB16(x) ( ( (x) & (BD_F_SB16|BD_F_SB16X) ) == BD_F_SB16) again: - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) { + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) { c = sb_getmixer(io_base, IRQ_STAT); /* this tells us if the source is 8-bit or 16-bit dma. We * have to check the io channel to map it to read or write... @@ -302,7 +305,7 @@ if ( d->dbuf_out.dl ) dsp_wrintr(d); else { - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) printf("WARNING: wrintr but write DMA inactive!\n"); } } @@ -310,7 +313,7 @@ if ( d->dbuf_in.dl ) dsp_rdintr(d); else { - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) printf("WARNING: rdintr but read DMA inactive!\n"); } } @@ -353,7 +356,7 @@ else d->flags &= ~SND_F_XLAT8 ; - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) { + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) { u_char c, c1 ; /* the SB16 can do full duplex using one 16-bit channel @@ -392,6 +395,29 @@ d->dbuf_in.chan = d->dbuf_out.chan; d->dbuf_out.chan = c ; } + } else if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_ESS) { + u_char c ; + if (d->play_fmt == 0) { + /* initialize for record */ + static u_char cmd[] = { + 0x51,0xd0,0x71,0xf4,0x51,0x98,0x71,0xbc + }; + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xb8, 0x0e); + c = ( ess_read(d->io_base, 0xa8) & 0xfc ) | 1 ; + if (d->flags & SND_F_STEREO) + c++ ; + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xa8, c); + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xb9, 2); /* 4bytes/transfer */ + /* + * set format in b6, b7 + */ + } else { + /* initialize for play */ + static u_char cmd[] = { + 0x80,0x51,0xd0,0x00,0x71,0xf4, + 0x80,0x51,0x98,0x00,0x71,0xbc + }; + } } reset_dbuf(& (d->dbuf_in), SND_CHAN_RD ); reset_dbuf(& (d->dbuf_out), SND_CHAN_WR ); @@ -406,7 +432,10 @@ * is assigned. This means that if the application * tries to use a bad format, the sound will not be nice. */ - if ( b->chan > 4 ) { + if ( b->chan > 4 + || (rd && d->rec_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) + || (!rd && d->play_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) + ) { c = DSP_F16_AUTO | DSP_F16_FIFO_ON | DSP_DMA16 ; c1 = DSP_F16_SIGNED ; l /= 2 ; @@ -455,7 +484,10 @@ case SND_CB_STOP : { int cmd = DSP_CMD_DMAPAUSE_8 ; /* default: halt 8 bit chan */ - if ( d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16 && b->chan > 4 ) + if ( b->chan > 4 + || (rd && d->rec_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) + || (!rd && d->play_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) + ) cmd = DSP_CMD_DMAPAUSE_16 ; if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_HISPEED) { sb_reset_dsp(d->io_base); @@ -618,7 +650,7 @@ printf("ESS1868 (rev %d)\n", rev); else printf("ESS688 (rev %d)\n", rev); - d->audio_fmt |= AFMT_S16_LE; /* in fact it is U16_LE */ + /* d->audio_fmt |= AFMT_S16_LE; */ /* not yet... */ break ; /* XXX */ } else { printf("Unknown card 0x%x 0x%x -- hope it is SBPRO\n", @@ -661,6 +693,14 @@ /* * Common code for the midi and pcm functions + * + * sb_cmd write a single byte to the CMD port. + * sb_cmd2 write a CMD + 1 byte arg + * sb_cmd3 write a CMD + 2 byte arg + * sb_get_byte returns a single byte from the DSP data port + * + * ess_write is actually sb_cmd2 + * ess_read access ext. regs via sb_cmd(0xc0, reg) followed by sb_get_byte */ int @@ -726,9 +766,9 @@ u_long flags; flags = spltty(); - outb(io_base + 4, (u_char) (port & 0xff)); /* Select register */ + outb(io_base + SB_MIX_ADDR, (u_char) (port & 0xff)); /* Select register */ DELAY(10); - val = inb(io_base + 5); + val = inb(io_base + SB_MIX_DATA); DELAY(10); splx(flags); @@ -748,6 +788,19 @@ return 0xffff; } +int +ess_write(int io_base, u_char reg, int val) +{ + return sb_cmd2(io_base, reg, val); +} + +int +ess_read(int io_base, u_char reg) +{ + if (!sb_cmd(io_base, 0xc0) || !sb_cmd(io_base, reg) ) + return 0xffff ; + return sb_get_byte(io_base); +} /* @@ -786,17 +839,21 @@ */ if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_ESS) { int t; - RANGE (speed, 4000, 48000); + RANGE (speed, 5000, 49000); if (speed > 22000) { t = (795500 + speed / 2) / speed; speed = (795500 + t / 2) / t ; - t = ( 256 - (795500 + speed / 2) / speed ) | 0x80 ; + t = (256 - t ) | 0x80 ; } else { t = (397700 + speed / 2) / speed; speed = (397700 + t / 2) / t ; - t = 128 - (397700 + speed / 2) / speed ; + t = 128 - t ; } - sb_cmd2(d->io_base, 0xa1, t); /* set time constant */ + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xa1, t); /* set time constant */ + d->play_speed = d->rec_speed = speed ; + speed = (speed * 9 ) / 20 ; + t = 256-7160000/(speed*82); + ess_write(d->io_base,0xa2,t); return speed ; } @@ -1154,6 +1211,7 @@ * A driver for some SB16pnp and compatibles... * * Avance Asound 100 -- 0x01009305 + * Avance Logic ALS100+ -- 0x10019305 * xxx -- 0x2b008c0e * */ @@ -1187,6 +1245,8 @@ s = "SB16 PnP"; else if (vend_id == 0x01009305) s = "Avance Asound 100" ; + else if (vend_id == 0x10009305) + s = "Avance Logic 100+" ; if (s) { struct pnp_cinfo d; read_pnp_parms(&d, 0); @@ -1224,6 +1284,12 @@ pcm_info[dev->id_unit] = tmp_d; snddev_last_probed->probe(dev); /* not really necessary but doesn't harm */ + if (vend_id == 0x10009305) { + /* + * VIBRA16X please add here the vend_id for other vibra16X cards... + */ + pcm_info[dev->id_unit].bd_flags |= BD_F_SB16X ; + } pcmattach(dev); } #endif /* NPNP */ Only in /sys/i386/isa/snd: sb_dsp.c.v16 diff -ubwr snd/sbcard.h /sys/i386/isa/snd/sbcard.h --- snd/sbcard.h Fri Jan 16 19:03:44 1998 +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sbcard.h Thu Mar 12 09:40:16 1998 @@ -19,9 +19,9 @@ #define DSP_DATA_AVAIL (io_base + 0xE) #define DSP_DATA_AVL16 (io_base + 0xF) +#define SB_MIX_ADDR 0x4 +#define SB_MIX_DATA 0x5 #if 0 -#define MIXER_ADDR (io_base + 0x4) -#define MIXER_DATA (io_base + 0x5) #define OPL3_LEFT (io_base + 0x0) #define OPL3_RIGHT (io_base + 0x2) #define OPL3_BOTH (io_base + 0x8) @@ -138,7 +138,7 @@ #define BD_F_MIX_CT1745 0x0030 /* CT1745 */ #define BD_F_SB16 0x0100 /* this is a SB16 */ -#define BD_F_NOREC 0x0200 /* recording not supported on this board */ +#define BD_F_SB16X 0x0200 /* this is a vibra16X or clone */ #define BD_F_MIDIBUSY 0x0400 /* midi busy */ #define BD_F_ESS 0x0800 /* this is an ESS chip */ diff -ubwr snd/sound.c /sys/i386/isa/snd/sound.c --- snd/sound.c Fri Feb 13 15:33:08 1998 +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sound.c Sat Mar 14 23:11:35 1998 @@ -717,7 +717,7 @@ snd_chan_param *p = (snd_chan_param *)arg; d->play_speed = p->play_rate; d->rec_speed = p->play_rate; /* XXX one speed allowed */ - if (p->play_format & SND_F_STEREO) + if (p->play_format & AFMT_STEREO) d->flags |= SND_F_STEREO ; else d->flags &= ~SND_F_STEREO ; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 10:59:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:59:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (root@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu [18.111.0.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28493 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beng@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu) Received: from shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (beng@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27642; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:57:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803201857.NAA27642@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: James Flemer cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:07:14 EST." From: Benjamin Greenwald X-Sender: beng@lcs.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:57:38 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx driver is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and should have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. -Ben Greenwald > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > (very) little driver programming. > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > be fully supported in this configuration. > -James Flemer > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 11:13:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01733 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01717 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:13:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11037 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:13:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:13:11 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: XTI (shudder) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are there any plans to migrate XTI(TLI) into the kernel or provide library support for this 'standard'? -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 11:35:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06949 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:35:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06905 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 18378 invoked by uid 1017); 20 Mar 1998 19:33:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:33:08 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa To: Benjamin Greenwald cc: James Flemer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) In-Reply-To: <199803201857.NAA27642@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have heard that those cards are architecturally unimpressive. What type of performance do you expect? I have heard they are slower than the DECs and Intels, especially for NFS traffic. Any comments? Kevin On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Benjamin Greenwald wrote: > I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx driver > is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and should > have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. > > -Ben Greenwald > > > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > > (very) little driver programming. > > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > > be fully supported in this configuration. > > -James Flemer > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 11:47:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09675 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:47:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (196-31-98-221.iafrica.com [196.31.98.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09339 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA03642; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:45:40 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199803201945.VAA03642@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? In-Reply-To: <199803201710.SAA05191@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Mar 20, 98 06:10:37 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:45:28 +0200 (SAT) Cc: rnordier@iafrica.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. > > 3.8 or later ? I used a 3.9 pre-release to test standalone FAT32 support I was doing for sysinstall. Mtools did work correctly for FAT32 partitions > 0xffff clusters, but I didn't really look at the whole package. [ ... ] > I have patches (for mtools 3.0) to support HDs (but only up to 512MB) > and make them bootable in DOS or Windows95 (you need a DOS/Win > licence, and you need to grab the init files and boot sector and put > them into /usr/local/lib/mtools... > > Would you be interested to integrate that as well ? If you're likely to use it, I guess it should be added. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 12:02:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:02:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12154 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17381; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:01:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803202001.PAA17381@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) In-Reply-To: <23521.890412146@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Mar 20, 98 08:42:26 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:01:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, leec@adam.adonai.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > longer a bottleneck for him. > I tend to trust Ron, BTW. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 12:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14173 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14018 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17394; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:11:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803202011.PAA17394@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mremap? In-Reply-To: <199803201638.IAA29607@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Mar 20, 98 08:38:29 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:11:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would > > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > > > > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. > > You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way > Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking > (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their > VM system). > > I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but > if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping > works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be > able to pull it off. > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). Think of it like this: First, remove the old map entries in the destination location. Perhaps saving them for undoing the effects of this operation upon failure (if needed by the API.) Next, grab the map entries in the source location, removing them, if the API requires such. Otherwise copy them. When "grabbing" the map entries, make sure that you trim them on both sides (trim the address space chunks (entries).) Put the old map entries into the new place in the map, making sure that the offsets are fixed up... When copying the map entries, it is important to make sure that the state of the destination entries is correct. You'll have to UTSL to see how to do that. This is little more complex than forking a process, but not brain surgery... Our VM code as inherited from Mach, is extremely flexible and really easy to work with. Take a look at the fork code (vmspace_fork) for a slightly not applicable example of moving address space entries (map entries) around. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 12:26:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA17265 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:25:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 25585 invoked from network); 20 Mar 1998 20:32:19 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 20 Mar 1998 20:32:19 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031298 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199803181718.LAA08905@soccer.inetspace.com> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:32:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: "Kent S. Gordon" Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. Sion To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 12:26:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:26:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (root@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu [18.111.0.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17352 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beng@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu) Received: from shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (beng@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27839 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:26:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199803202026.PAA27839@shangri-la.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:33:08 MST." From: Benjamin Greenwald X-Sender: beng@lcs.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:26:04 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I hadn't heard about any problems with NFS traffic. I've used these cards in a mixed network with Sparc and PA-RISC workstations and I have to say I got at least comparable NFS performance from the 3Com NIC's. The Intel cards are probably the best... they are certainly the most flexible. As to the DEC cards, it is my understanding that they have alignment restrictions (packets have to be long word aligned... therefore a copy is required) that limit performance. I'm not saying the 3Com cards are the best out there. I _know_ there is a great deal of improvement to be made (the card under Win NT screams), but just how much I'm not going to attempt to quantify at this rather early date. The truth is it doesn't matter. There are a lot of these cards out there and a lot of people who run FreeBSD use them. Whatever performance we can suck out of them, we should. If it turns out that the numbers are less impresive than the Intel or DEC numbers, at least people can make a more informed decision about purchasing because they'll be comparing apples to apples, not apples to rotten acorns. For the rest of us who are stuck with what we've got, at least we won't feel that rush of air and the sonic boom as the world passes us by. -Ben > > I have heard that those cards are architecturally unimpressive. What type > of performance do you expect? I have heard they are slower than the DECs > and Intels, especially for NFS traffic. Any comments? > > Kevin > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Benjamin Greenwald wrote: > > > I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx drive r > > is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and sho uld > > have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. > > > > -Ben Greenwald > > > > > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > > > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > > > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > > > (very) little driver programming. > > > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > > > be fully supported in this configuration. > > > -James Flemer > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 13:21:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:21:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27557 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04529; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:19:36 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13354; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:19:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980320221931.51710@follo.net> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:19:31 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, "Kent S. Gordon" Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? References: <199803181718.LAA08905@soccer.inetspace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > > > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with another; it does nothing to the storage manager. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 13:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00472 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:32:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00351 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:32:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13031; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:29:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:29:34 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Eivind Eklund cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, "Kent S. Gordon" , roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? In-Reply-To: <19980320221931.51710@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. This is very common indeed, it is how the dynamic linker on solaris works. -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 14:03:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sendero.simon-shapiro.org (sendero-fddi.Simon-Shapiro.ORG [206.190.148.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA06039 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 28203 invoked from network); 20 Mar 1998 22:07:54 -0000 Received: from localhost.simon-shapiro.org (HELO sendero-fxp0.simon-shapiro.org) (@127.0.0.1) by localhost.simon-shapiro.org with SMTP; 20 Mar 1998 22:07:54 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-031798 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980320221931.51710@follo.net> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Kent S. Gordon" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Mar-98 Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: >> >> On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: >> > >> >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: >> > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead >> > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres >> >> This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data >> storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage >> meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is >> decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a >> storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage >> model >> than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in >> PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works > better. > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory > with > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. Apologies then. I thought the intention was to mmap the storage manager. I am still recovering from a nasty cold and an all-night flight back home. The trip was worht it, though :-) ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 14:17:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09409 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:17:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09404 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:17:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16945; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:16:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA22441; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:16:12 -0600 Message-ID: <19980320161611.64201@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:16:11 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Mike Smith , perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mremap? References: <199803201638.IAA29607@dingo.cdrom.com> <199803202011.PAA17394@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199803202011.PAA17394@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). I have something similar to this, but slightly different: I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process into the address space of a different process, at a different location, resulting in shared memory between the processes. (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different location.) EG: boolean_t vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) vm_map_t smap, dmap; vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; vm_size_t size; Would this type of routine be useful? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 14:38:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13877 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:38:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13776 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18127; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:38:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803202238.RAA18127@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mremap? In-Reply-To: <19980320161611.64201@right.PCS> from Jonathan Lemon at "Mar 20, 98 04:16:11 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:38:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > location.) > > EG: > boolean_t > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > vm_size_t size; > > Would this type of routine be useful? > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." If there is a reasonable justification for a new system call or equiv, I am all for it!!! John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 14:40:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14615 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:40:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14189; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:39:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06806; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:39:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3512F02C.25266BF2@dal.net> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:39:40 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA-0316 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. References: <12479.890354068@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [design model snipped] > As the author of a number of the temporary bodges we're using right > now (/etc/rc.conf and friends), I can say that they're exactly that - > temporary bodges with numerous limitations. I was hoping we'd stop > hacking out ever more temporary solutions to the /etc configuration > problem someday and start thinking of something that actually SCALES > worth a damn, but we clearly haven't gotten to that point yet. :) Ok, go ahead and close the PR. If I read between the lines it sounds to me like you don't want this as a port either, however if I'm incorrect in that assumption please let me know and I'll see what I can do about getting it done before the deadline. I agree that a better solution is desirable, I made that point myself. If I were capable of putting together something along the lines of what you want I would be happy to do so. However it seems to me that some solution is better than no solution, especially when you consider that there is currently nothing in the base that explains how to do the upgrade properly. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 14:55:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18962 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:55:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18789 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16993; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:54:25 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA29122; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:53:54 -0600 Message-ID: <19980320165353.04445@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:53:53 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mremap? References: <19980320161611.64201@right.PCS> <199803202238.RAA18127@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199803202238.RAA18127@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Mar 03, 1998 at 05:38:01PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 03, 1998 at 05:38:01PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > location.) > > > > EG: > > boolean_t > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > vm_size_t size; > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." Oh, I've already have this running, and it's just for internal kernel use at the moment (no userspace API). What I was really asking was if this might be useful to a wider audience, and if the semantics aren't too seriously deranged. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 15:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shuttle.netronix.com (shuttle.netronix.com [205.149.170.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24510 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:15:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeff@netronix.com) Received: from ds9.netronix.com (ds9.netronix.com [205.149.190.36]) by shuttle.netronix.com (8.8.7/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA03036; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:17:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803202317.PAA03036@shuttle.netronix.com> From: "Jeff Buseman" To: Eivind Eklund Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:16:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind, Thank you for your reponse. > It only handle TCP and UDP traffic. The only way to get it to handle > something else is by asking Charles or me to make libalias do so, preferably > with pointer to suitable documentation. I might find time to handle this > fairly quickly if you come up with docs. I see that others have sent you some references, and I'm including my summary of what I've found so far below. I have someone who would be willing to try to capture some packets on the incoming side, if that would help. If you need anything else that I could do, let me know. Thanks again. PPTP Documentation RFC's describing the GRE protocol http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1701.txt http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1702.txt Draft Proposal for PPTP ftp://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pppext-pptp-02.txt http://www.microsoft.com/communications/exes/draft-ietf-pppext-p ptp-01.txt Linux program for protocol redirection (including protocol 47) http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/linux_pptp.html http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/IPfwd/ Microsoft Documentation on PPTP Index: http://www.microsoft.com/communications/morepptp.htm Microsoft Dial-Up Networking Documentation (DUN12.DOC) http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q166/2/88.asp (Section 4 briefly describes PPTP / Firewalls) Jeff Buseman jeff@netronix.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 15:31:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28773 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18360; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:27:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803202327.SAA18360@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mremap? In-Reply-To: <19980320165353.04445@right.PCS> from Jonathan Lemon at "Mar 20, 98 04:53:53 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:27:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mar 03, 1998 at 05:38:01PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > > > > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > > > > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > > > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > > > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > > > > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > > location.) > > > > > > EG: > > > boolean_t > > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > > vm_size_t size; > > > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > > > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." > > Oh, I've already have this running, and it's just for internal kernel > use at the moment (no userspace API). What I was really asking was if > this might be useful to a wider audience, and if the semantics aren't > too seriously deranged. > It looks okay, I wouldn't mind if it was added :-). I would support adding it. There is absolutely no reason for me to stand in the way of progress!!! John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 15:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04381 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:56:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duncan.cs.utk.edu (DUNCAN.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.94.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA04315 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:56:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from key@cs.utk.edu) Received: from LOCALHOST.cs.utk.edu by duncan.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id SAA06222; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:56:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199803202356.SAA06222@duncan.cs.utk.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: key@cs.utk.edu Subject: Need Intel 82557/82558 Ethernet docs to hack if_fxp. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:56:00 -0500 From: Ken Key Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I want to try a slightly sick hack to the if_fxp driver and am having a devil of a time finding adequate programming docs for the Intel 82557 or 82558 LAN controller. I've pulled the data sheets off of Intel's developer web-site but it skips completely over the actual device driver interface and refers to the "82557 Users Manual", that I cannot find a reference to at their site. Does anyone know how a mere mortal may obtain a copy of this manual to hack on the if_fxp? Thanks, Ken Key (key@cs.utk.edu) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 17:23:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17815 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:23:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA17806 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Fri Mar 20 17:07 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA12831 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FW: Digi Exp Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, I tried to send this message personally but it was not delivered. I think it's not to far from -hackers subject. > ---------- > From: Babkin, Serge > Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 1:20 PM > To: 'decebal@moldnet.md' > Subject: RE: Digi Exp > > ---------- > From: decebal@moldnet.md[SMTP:decebal@moldnet.md] > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > no, you can't do this, are you sure we don't support this? > > > > Yes FreeBSD doesn't support Xem. > FreeBSD suport Xe board that is not like Xem. > I compiled Xe driver and kernel was not able to init the board. > > Well, Linux has sources for Digi Xem and all Digi boards for all buses > but i am just beginer and will not be able to port them to FreeBSD. > > In this case it must be not that difficult provided that > the FreeBSD driver (yes, originally written by me) was > originally based on Linux driver and although many > things were redesigned, the > major structure is probably still like Linux. If it's not > then perhaps it's time to drop the GNU-style copyright > from it :-) > > -SB > > P.S. Personally I'm not going to add Xem support for BSD because I > have now no Digi card and, yet worse, I have no motivation to do that. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 18:15:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26334 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26312 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:15:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id NAA26656; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:14:22 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19980321131422.62616@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:14:22 +1100 From: David Dawes To: Makoto MATSUSHITA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 References: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> <19980317114231J.matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980317114231J.matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp>; from Makoto MATSUSHITA on Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:42:31AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:42:31AM +0900, Makoto MATSUSHITA wrote: > >Sorry I do not know why multibyte-supporting locale is out of libc... > >k.keithley> What's the rationale for having the SJIS and EUC locale >k.keithley> support in libxpg4 instead of libc? > >IMHO, we should link with xpg4 library when linking X libraries to >compile X application. Many FreeBSD ports application tries to link >so, especially in japanese and x11 category (these applications try to >link xpg4 library manually; ahh, where the imake framework has gone :-) > >How about changing $XTOP/X11/lib/config/FreeBSD.cf to add -lxpg4 >to linker's option, when the FreeBSD's version >= 2.2 ? So, what's the official position of FreeBSD on this? If it is going to stay in libxpg4 rather than be in libc, I'll make the appropriate change to the FreeBSD.cf in the XFree86 source. Perhaps something like the following (relative to XFree86 3.3.2)? *** FreeBSD.cf 1998/03/01 01:08:59 3.58.2.11 --- xc/config/cf/FreeBSD.cf 1998/03/21 02:12:22 *************** *** 59,65 **** --- 59,70 ---- #define DefaultCCOptions -ansi -pedantic -Dasm=__asm #endif #ifndef ExtraLibraries + /* support for multi-byte locales is in libxpg4 rather than libc */ + #if OSMajorVersion > 2 || (OSMajorVersion == 2 && OSMinorVersion >= 2) + #define ExtraLibraries -lxpg4 + #else #define ExtraLibraries /**/ + #endif #endif #ifndef UseGnuMalloc /* 2.2 doesn't really have GnuMalloc */ David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 21:30:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA19869 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id VAA29780 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:19:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:19:30 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199803210519.VAA29780@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: fxp strange problem X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have had odd problems with a number of fxp cards. I'm using 2.2.5-RELEASE. I have a machine that refuses to work if I plug it into a BAY 350T 10/100 ethernet switch. I don't even get status or link lights. If I plug it into a 10Mb ethernet hub, it works fine. Any ideas ? Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 21:35:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21097 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:35:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20933 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26459 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:37:14 GMT Message-ID: <016f01bd548a$b9e8be60$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Re: mremap? Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:32:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG wouldn't a simple resolution lie in just "locking" the kernel, unmapping the segment and seeing if it was possible to remap it according to the user's wishes then mmap it again the unlock the kernel? in SMP situations if the request for a remap fialed right after the unmap we could check if the user specified the "unmoveable flag" and then remap as/if nessesary. maybe this isn't the most effecient method.. but i makes sense to someone who hasn't even looked at the sources yet in regards to implementing this. i'm looking at your proposals for mremap() right after i send this. -Alfred >-----Original Message----- >From: John S. Dyson >To: Mike Smith >Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > >Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:13 AM >Subject: Re: mremap? > > >>> > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), >would >>> > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? >>> > >>> > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. >>> >>> You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way >>> Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking >>> (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their >>> VM system). >>> >>> I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but >>> if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping >>> works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be >>> able to pull it off. >>> >>I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but >>it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think >>of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being >>the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code >>works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs >>to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to >>do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, >>there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). >> >>Think of it like this: >> >>First, remove the old map entries in the destination location. Perhaps >>saving them for undoing the effects of this operation upon failure (if >>needed by the API.) >> >>Next, grab the map entries in the source location, removing them, if >>the API requires such. Otherwise copy them. When "grabbing" the >>map entries, make sure that you trim them on both sides (trim the >>address space chunks (entries).) >> >>Put the old map entries into the new place in the map, making sure >>that the offsets are fixed up... >> >>When copying the map entries, it is important to make sure that the >>state of the destination entries is correct. You'll have to UTSL to >>see how to do that. >> >>This is little more complex than forking a process, but not >>brain surgery... Our VM code as inherited from Mach, is extremely >>flexible and really easy to work with. Take a look at the fork code >>(vmspace_fork) for a slightly not applicable example of moving address >>space entries (map entries) around. >> >>John >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 21:48:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan@dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22898 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:48:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA26488; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:48:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980320234828.A26447@emsphone.com> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:48:28 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Joe McGuckin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fxp strange problem References: <199803210519.VAA29780@monk.via.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.90.5i In-Reply-To: <199803210519.VAA29780@monk.via.net>; from "Joe McGuckin" on Fri Mar 20 21:19:30 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-BETA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Mar 20), Joe McGuckin said: > > > I have had odd problems with a number of fxp cards. I'm using > 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > I have a machine that refuses to work if I plug it into a BAY 350T > 10/100 ethernet switch. I don't even get status or link lights. If I > plug it into a 10Mb ethernet hub, it works fine. I've seen this happen on 350T's also. Try forcing one or both ends (the card via ifconfig media, or the 350T via the telnet interface) to the speed you want and see if that helps. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 22:36:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [209.81.9.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00214 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id WAA00813 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:25:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:25:25 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199803210625.WAA00813@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What causes this? It seems to unrecoverable. Inetd must be restarted by hand. -joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 20 22:45:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01455 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:45:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01448 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:45:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20146; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:45:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803210645.BAA20146@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. In-Reply-To: <199803210625.WAA00813@monk.via.net> from Joe McGuckin at "Mar 20, 98 10:25:25 pm" To: joe@via.net (Joe McGuckin) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:45:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What causes this? It seems to unrecoverable. Inetd must be restarted > by hand. > I have seen the problem when running a buggered version of -current. If you are running a current between 13-mar and 20-mar, you could be hosing your filesystems. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 01:19:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16314 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA16309 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18726 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:19:42 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA07363; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:38:12 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199803202038.VAA07363@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? In-Reply-To: <19980317083742.27428@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Mar 17, 98 08:37:42 am" To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:38:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, garman@earthling.net, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Randall Hopper wrote... > Wilko Bulte: > |I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then it refuses to > |start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. > | > | 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) > | 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 > | 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) > | 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN > | 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 > ... > | > |This repeats forever. FWIW this happens both with and without the ISDN/ppp > |link to the Internet. > > Ollivier Robert: > |export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null > > garman@earthling.net: > |More simply, every time this happened to me, I found that removing the line: > | > |user_pref("browser.startup.license_accepted", "1000 4.04"); FWIW: the fix Ollivier suggested seems to do the trick for me. Netscape seems to be a truly weird program. %-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 08:03:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21205 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 08:03:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21178; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 08:02:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07251; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:05:34 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:05:31 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl Subject: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.31 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I am pleased to announce that PicoBSD version 0.31 is available. This is a version of FreeBSD fitting on a single floppy - it can serve as a dialup-access tool (includes SSH, telnet and FTP clients), or as a small router replacement (includes IP firewall and SNMP agent). Visit http://www.freebsd.org/~abial for further information and download. Have fun! Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 13:48:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:48:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07836 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24514; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024494; Sat Mar 21 14:48:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06529; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:48:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803212148.OAA06529@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:48:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, shimon@simon-shapiro.org, kgor@inetspace.com, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David E. Cross" at Mar 20, 98 04:29:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > > > > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > > > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > > > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > > > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > > > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > > > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > > > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. > > > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with > > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. > > This is very common indeed, it is how the dynamic linker on solaris works. As a point of interest, virtual memory *without* a backing object works *significantly* faster than virtual memory *with* a backing object. This should be pretty obvious from simple observation of what a backing object means: it means that you must maintain write-through cache coherency for the object, going through the VFS code to do it. There are a number of large wins you could wring out of the VFS code that FreeBSD may be on the road to wringing, but a backing object still tends to nail flodding after the high water-mark to the speed of the pager (either the swap pager (which is fast) or the vnode pager (which is less fast). I think John Dyson did significant work to speed up anonymous shared memory. I *think* it should work with /dev/zero, but of course, you would have to implement some mechanism of region sharing on top of that (/dev/zero pages are copy-on-write, and would only be shared by child processes, and then only in specific rfork circumstances). That said, I believe there are currently reasons, until you can use a procfs call to adopt a copy-on-write region as a non-copy-on-write region in another process (ie: copy the pages if they are /dev/zero pages, but share them otherwise), that SYSV SHMEM is actually a better (in terms of performance) technology. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 13:53:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08232 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:53:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08225 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20314; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd020295; Sat Mar 21 14:53:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06633; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:52:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803212152.OAA06633@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: mremap? To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:52:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803202238.RAA18127@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Mar 20, 98 05:38:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > location.) > > > > EG: > > boolean_t > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > vm_size_t size; > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." > > If there is a reasonable justification for a new system call or equiv, > I am all for it!!! I would expect that it would be useful for thunking work to a VM86 process that would then make BIOS calls based on the "work" you gave it. IMO, this would be most useful is the VM86 process was, in fact, a kernel process, so that it could be crafted and executed in kernel space priori to the system coming available, and used for things like INT 13 reads, INT 10 mode settings for video cards, and so on. My preferred mechanism for doing this would be to use a call through procfs to establish the mapping. Of course, I preferred using procfs to set attributes on one's self instead of an rfork implementation (this is, in fact, how I implemented the interprocess sharng of the per process descriptor table in UnixWare). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 16:15:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:15:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27363 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04374; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:14:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803220014.TAA04374@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mremap? In-Reply-To: <199803212152.OAA06633@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 21, 98 09:52:58 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:14:59 -0500 (EST) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said: > > My preferred mechanism for doing this would be to use a call through > procfs to establish the mapping. > > Of course, I preferred using procfs to set attributes on one's self > instead of an rfork implementation (this is, in fact, how I implemented > the interprocess sharng of the per process descriptor table in UnixWare). > Rather than invent lots of primitives, we need to continue to use the existing and sufficient VM primitves. The VM code is really flexible and easy to use. If anything, you could implement the procfs stuff over the VM code if you want to. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 17:15:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07641 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:15:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netcetera.dk (root@sleipner.netcetera.dk [194.192.207.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07634 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leifn@image.dk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.netcetera.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id CAA03883 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 02:12:26 +0100 Received: by swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk (0.99.970109) id AA04402; 21 Mar 98 20:16:43 +0100 From: leifn@image.dk (Leif Neland) Date: 21 Mar 98 10:41:10 +0100 Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? Message-ID: <82b_9803212016@swimsuit.swimsuit.roskildebc.dk> References: <199803202038.VAA07363@yedi.iaf.nl> Organization: Fidonet: Swimsuit Safari. Go for it. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 20 Mar 98 21:38:12 Wilko Bulte (2:234/49.99) wrote to All regarding Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? in area "freebsd-hacker" WB>> |I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then WB> it refuses to WB>> |start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. WB>> | WB> WB> FWIW: the fix Ollivier suggested seems to do the trick for me. WB> WB> Netscape seems to be a truly weird program. %-) Well, in a week or so you can fix it :-) Leif Neland leifn@image.dk --- |Fidonet: Leif Neland 2:234/49 |Internet: leifn@image.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 17:30:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:30:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10005 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tszabo@earthlink.net) Received: from tszabo.earthlink.net (1Cust20.tnt3.long-beach.ca.da.uu.net [208.255.163.20]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06352 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:30:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803220130.RAA06352@norway.it.earthlink.net> From: "szabo" To: Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:25:42 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please cancel this newsletter. Thank you. ---------------TOM------------------- ---------- > From: freebsd-hackers-digest > To: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 > Date: Saturday, March 21, 1998 1:48 PM > > > freebsd-hackers-digest Saturday, March 21 1998 Volume 04 : Number 075 > > > > In this issue: > Re: mremap? > Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > apologies for mail loop > Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > patch for Vibra16X -- test please! > New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > XTI (shudder) > Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > Re: mremap? > Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > Re: mremap? > Re: mremap? > Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. > Re: mremap? > (Fwd) Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol > Re: mremap? > Need Intel 82557/82558 Ethernet docs to hack if_fxp. > FW: Digi Exp > Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 > fxp strange problem > Re: mremap? > Re: fxp strange problem > inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. > Re: inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. > Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? > ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.31 > Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:38:29 -0800 > From: Mike Smith > Subject: Re: mremap? > > > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would > > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > > > > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. > > You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way > Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking > (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their > VM system). > > I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but > if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping > works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be > able to pull it off. > > > btw, i'm planning on implementing it like the linux mremap(), although there > > is some talk in the linux man page for it about a BSD version that was never > > done... if anyone would rather i try to do that i can look into it if > > someone can get me a man page to the BSD proposed version. > > If BSD/OS or NetBSD has mremap(), we would probably want to look like > theirs and support the Linux model via ABI emulation. Otherwise, I > can't see any reason not to simply be slavishly compatible. 8) > > - -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:26 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > > > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > longer a bottleneck for him. > > Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:44:09 -0500 (EST) > From: Snob Art Genre > Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > > How about mkdosfs(1)? > > > > Ben > > "You have your mind on computers, it seems." > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:41:43 +0200 > From: Ruslan Shevchenko > Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > ? ? But the industry is changing quite rapidly. I believe we need to > > ? ? step back and see where it is going and make some strategic > > ? ? decisions about where we want to see FreeBSD go. We have > > ? ? stability and security pretty well taken care of. I'm seeing > > ? ? some positive comments about smp in 3.0. But we might want to > > ? ? see about clustering and some fault-tolerant extensions. If we > > ? > > ? Heh. I think we first mentioned clustering as something on FreeBSD's > > ? wishlist as early as 1995 or so. The problem here is not in finding > > ? enough people to say "yeah, clustering is cool!", the problem here is > > ? in finding people to say "clustering is cool, please check out my > > ? FreeBSD implementation!" :-( > > > > No, the problem is finding people to say "wow, I have checked out this > > FreeBSD clustering implementation and I think it ?verb?s". > > > > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. > > > > Hmm. I know nothing about this and I'm ready to try > this. > Can I see http://www.freebsd.org/cluster in near future ? > > > If we have someone that actually feels "proactive" about clustering, > > then I suggest they approach Ron solicitously and get something > > happening. 8) > > > > -- > > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > - -- > > @= > //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:01:57 -0500 (EST) > From: Open Systems Networking > Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > > longer a bottleneck for him. > > Ill second that! Maybe we'll see clustering maybe we wont :) > But At least we can offer those doing the work the chance to take their, > in this case, cluster work and integrate it with little overhead, when the > code meets the specs. I think of projects that have been done to add > funtionality and more than anything just selling points and buzzwords, for > isntance gene starks DSM for FBSD. It would have had some useage somewhere > im sure, but for most of us, not really. But It was work done and > completed, just never integrated into the src. That really isnt a good > point since even if it had been intergrated i doubt gene would be hacking > on it to keep it cruft free and working. So maybe thats a bad example :) > But ron will probably keep his cluster code working and compilable, so I > think jordans idea is a good one, even if this was a long winded way to > say it. Oh and wine and woman usually are the 2 standard exploits for most > of us :) > > ./wine -red -exploit ron > ./women -seduce -3on1 ron > > Source is freely availble! > > Chris > > - -- > "I am closed minded. It keeps the rain out." > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > - -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:03:36 +0100 > From: Philippe Regnauld > Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > > longer a bottleneck for him. > > http://www.sarnoff.com:8000/docs/metacomputing.html > > Nudge, nudge. > > - -- > -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- > «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead > IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» > - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:40:30 +0100 (MET) > From: Luigi Rizzo > Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > > > How about mkdosfs(1)? > > so much for not having appropriate manpages... > > prova# which mkdosfs > /usr/sbin/mkdosfs > prova# man -k msdos | grep mkdosfs > prova# man -k FAT > mkdosfs(1) - create an MS-DOS (FAT) file system > > no need to say i did not think to run man -k FAT before asking... > > cheers > luigi > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:38:49 -0600 > From: dannyman > Subject: apologies for mail loop > > hello, > > for about two hours this morning, i had a bad bad bad bad majordomo recipe > which was causing every piece of mail I received to be auto-responded to. i > would like to apologise for any crap spewed upon the lists because of this. i > feel pretty dumb. sorry everyone. > > - -dan > > - -- > //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- > \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- > aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:59:49 +0200 (SAT) > From: Robert Nordier > Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > > Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > i am in the need of creating a formatted MSDOS filesystem on >512MB > > disks from FreeBSD. > > > > One option i used was mtools but only for small disks, and i am not > > sure how it works with larger disks. In any case, i was wondering if > > there is some smaller code doing only the formatting part of the work... > > > > thanks > > luigi > > The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. > > I have a revised mkdosfs (the current FreeBSD one only does floppies) > which I've been meaning to polish and submit, anyway. This handles > FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32. If you want to review/test it, I can send > it to you by the end of next week. > > - -- > Robert Nordier > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:10:37 +0100 (MET) > From: Luigi Rizzo > Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > > > The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. > > 3.8 or later ? > > > I have a revised mkdosfs (the current FreeBSD one only does floppies) > > which I've been meaning to polish and submit, anyway. This handles > > FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32. If you want to review/test it, I can send > > it to you by the end of next week. > > yes i'd be interested. > > I have patches (for mtools 3.0) to support HDs (but only up to 512MB) > and make them bootable in DOS or Windows95 (you need a DOS/Win > licence, and you need to grab the init files and boot sector and put > them into /usr/local/lib/mtools... > > Would you be interested to integrate that as well ? > > cheers > luigi > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:14:52 +0100 (MET) > From: Luigi Rizzo > Subject: patch for Vibra16X -- test please! > > [forgive me for the crosspost but I'm trying to get some feedback > quickly... since this might go into -stable and the deadline is > close...] > > By popular demand, enclosed is a small patch to hopefully add > PARTIAL Vibra16X support for playback (there is also some still > non-functional code for the ESS -- don't worry about that bu i > prefer not to handcraft the patchfile). This is mostly derived from > code contributed by Torsten Ackemann. > > The diff is against snd980215 which is essentially what is now in > - -current and -stable. The modified files are only sb_dsp.c and > sbcard.h > > Note that, assuming this code works at all: > > * it might affect plain SB16 support, so I'd like to have feedback from > someone with the SB16 (it should still work fine); > * it only works in playback; we haven't figured out yet how > to tell capture from playback interrupts. And I have not > been successful in getting documentation from Creative or Realtek > (the latter make a Vibra16X clone). > * you might have to add the PnP vend_id of your card near the > end of sb_dsp.c -- there is a comment marked with VIBRA16X in this patch > in the point where you should make the addition. > > As usual, feedback is not only welcome but absolutely necessay > since I don't have a Vibra16X or clone. I need to know both if it > works and if it not works. Do not forget to give details about > your card (e.g. brand, PnP vendor ID) > > cheers > luigi > > > diff -ubwr snd/sb_dsp.c /sys/i386/isa/snd/sb_dsp.c > - --- snd/sb_dsp.c Tue Jan 27 21:01:49 1998 > +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sb_dsp.c Fri Mar 20 19:32:52 1998 > @@ -275,9 +275,12 @@ > * SB < 4.0 is half duplex and has only 1 bit for int source, > * so we fake it. SB 4.x (SB16) has the int source in a separate > * register. > + * The Vibra16X has separate flags for 8 and 16 bit transfers, but > + * I have no idea how to tell capture from playback interrupts... > */ > +#define PLAIN_SB16(x) ( ( (x) & (BD_F_SB16|BD_F_SB16X) ) == BD_F_SB16) > again: > - - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) { > + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) { > c = sb_getmixer(io_base, IRQ_STAT); > /* this tells us if the source is 8-bit or 16-bit dma. We > * have to check the io channel to map it to read or write... > @@ -302,7 +305,7 @@ > if ( d->dbuf_out.dl ) > dsp_wrintr(d); > else { > - - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) > + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) > printf("WARNING: wrintr but write DMA inactive!\n"); > } > } > @@ -310,7 +313,7 @@ > if ( d->dbuf_in.dl ) > dsp_rdintr(d); > else { > - - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) > + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) > printf("WARNING: rdintr but read DMA inactive!\n"); > } > } > @@ -353,7 +356,7 @@ > else > d->flags &= ~SND_F_XLAT8 ; > > - - if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16) { > + if (PLAIN_SB16(d->bd_flags)) { > u_char c, c1 ; > > /* the SB16 can do full duplex using one 16-bit channel > @@ -392,6 +395,29 @@ > d->dbuf_in.chan = d->dbuf_out.chan; > d->dbuf_out.chan = c ; > } > + } else if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_ESS) { > + u_char c ; > + if (d->play_fmt == 0) { > + /* initialize for record */ > + static u_char cmd[] = { > + 0x51,0xd0,0x71,0xf4,0x51,0x98,0x71,0xbc > + }; > + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xb8, 0x0e); > + c = ( ess_read(d->io_base, 0xa8) & 0xfc ) | 1 ; > + if (d->flags & SND_F_STEREO) > + c++ ; > + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xa8, c); > + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xb9, 2); /* 4bytes/transfer */ > + /* > + * set format in b6, b7 > + */ > + } else { > + /* initialize for play */ > + static u_char cmd[] = { > + 0x80,0x51,0xd0,0x00,0x71,0xf4, > + 0x80,0x51,0x98,0x00,0x71,0xbc > + }; > + } > } > reset_dbuf(& (d->dbuf_in), SND_CHAN_RD ); > reset_dbuf(& (d->dbuf_out), SND_CHAN_WR ); > @@ -406,7 +432,10 @@ > * is assigned. This means that if the application > * tries to use a bad format, the sound will not be nice. > */ > - - if ( b->chan > 4 ) { > + if ( b->chan > 4 > + || (rd && d->rec_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) > + || (!rd && d->play_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) > + ) { > c = DSP_F16_AUTO | DSP_F16_FIFO_ON | DSP_DMA16 ; > c1 = DSP_F16_SIGNED ; > l /= 2 ; > @@ -455,7 +484,10 @@ > case SND_CB_STOP : > { > int cmd = DSP_CMD_DMAPAUSE_8 ; /* default: halt 8 bit chan */ > - - if ( d->bd_flags & BD_F_SB16 && b->chan > 4 ) > + if ( b->chan > 4 > + || (rd && d->rec_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) > + || (!rd && d->play_fmt == AFMT_S16_LE) > + ) > cmd = DSP_CMD_DMAPAUSE_16 ; > if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_HISPEED) { > sb_reset_dsp(d->io_base); > @@ -618,7 +650,7 @@ > printf("ESS1868 (rev %d)\n", rev); > else > printf("ESS688 (rev %d)\n", rev); > - - d->audio_fmt |= AFMT_S16_LE; /* in fact it is U16_LE */ > + /* d->audio_fmt |= AFMT_S16_LE; */ /* not yet... */ > break ; /* XXX */ > } else { > printf("Unknown card 0x%x 0x%x -- hope it is SBPRO\n", > @@ -661,6 +693,14 @@ > > /* > * Common code for the midi and pcm functions > + * > + * sb_cmd write a single byte to the CMD port. > + * sb_cmd2 write a CMD + 1 byte arg > + * sb_cmd3 write a CMD + 2 byte arg > + * sb_get_byte returns a single byte from the DSP data port > + * > + * ess_write is actually sb_cmd2 > + * ess_read access ext. regs via sb_cmd(0xc0, reg) followed by sb_get_byte > */ > > int > @@ -726,9 +766,9 @@ > u_long flags; > > flags = spltty(); > - - outb(io_base + 4, (u_char) (port & 0xff)); /* Select register */ > + outb(io_base + SB_MIX_ADDR, (u_char) (port & 0xff)); /* Select register */ > DELAY(10); > - - val = inb(io_base + 5); > + val = inb(io_base + SB_MIX_DATA); > DELAY(10); > splx(flags); > > @@ -748,6 +788,19 @@ > return 0xffff; > } > > +int > +ess_write(int io_base, u_char reg, int val) > +{ > + return sb_cmd2(io_base, reg, val); > +} > + > +int > +ess_read(int io_base, u_char reg) > +{ > + if (!sb_cmd(io_base, 0xc0) || !sb_cmd(io_base, reg) ) > + return 0xffff ; > + return sb_get_byte(io_base); > +} > > > /* > @@ -786,17 +839,21 @@ > */ > if (d->bd_flags & BD_F_ESS) { > int t; > - - RANGE (speed, 4000, 48000); > + RANGE (speed, 5000, 49000); > if (speed > 22000) { > t = (795500 + speed / 2) / speed; > speed = (795500 + t / 2) / t ; > - - t = ( 256 - (795500 + speed / 2) / speed ) | 0x80 ; > + t = (256 - t ) | 0x80 ; > } else { > t = (397700 + speed / 2) / speed; > speed = (397700 + t / 2) / t ; > - - t = 128 - (397700 + speed / 2) / speed ; > + t = 128 - t ; > } > - - sb_cmd2(d->io_base, 0xa1, t); /* set time constant */ > + ess_write(d->io_base, 0xa1, t); /* set time constant */ > + d->play_speed = d->rec_speed = speed ; > + speed = (speed * 9 ) / 20 ; > + t = 256-7160000/(speed*82); > + ess_write(d->io_base,0xa2,t); > return speed ; > } > > @@ -1154,6 +1211,7 @@ > * A driver for some SB16pnp and compatibles... > * > * Avance Asound 100 -- 0x01009305 > + * Avance Logic ALS100+ -- 0x10019305 > * xxx -- 0x2b008c0e > * > */ > @@ -1187,6 +1245,8 @@ > s = "SB16 PnP"; > else if (vend_id == 0x01009305) > s = "Avance Asound 100" ; > + else if (vend_id == 0x10009305) > + s = "Avance Logic 100+" ; > if (s) { > struct pnp_cinfo d; > read_pnp_parms(&d, 0); > @@ -1224,6 +1284,12 @@ > pcm_info[dev->id_unit] = tmp_d; > snddev_last_probed->probe(dev); /* not really necessary but doesn't harm */ > > + if (vend_id == 0x10009305) { > + /* > + * VIBRA16X please add here the vend_id for other vibra16X cards... > + */ > + pcm_info[dev->id_unit].bd_flags |= BD_F_SB16X ; > + } > pcmattach(dev); > } > #endif /* NPNP */ > Only in /sys/i386/isa/snd: sb_dsp.c.v16 > diff -ubwr snd/sbcard.h /sys/i386/isa/snd/sbcard.h > - --- snd/sbcard.h Fri Jan 16 19:03:44 1998 > +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sbcard.h Thu Mar 12 09:40:16 1998 > @@ -19,9 +19,9 @@ > #define DSP_DATA_AVAIL (io_base + 0xE) > #define DSP_DATA_AVL16 (io_base + 0xF) > > +#define SB_MIX_ADDR 0x4 > +#define SB_MIX_DATA 0x5 > #if 0 > - -#define MIXER_ADDR (io_base + 0x4) > - -#define MIXER_DATA (io_base + 0x5) > #define OPL3_LEFT (io_base + 0x0) > #define OPL3_RIGHT (io_base + 0x2) > #define OPL3_BOTH (io_base + 0x8) > @@ -138,7 +138,7 @@ > #define BD_F_MIX_CT1745 0x0030 /* CT1745 */ > > #define BD_F_SB16 0x0100 /* this is a SB16 */ > - -#define BD_F_NOREC 0x0200 /* recording not supported on this board */ > +#define BD_F_SB16X 0x0200 /* this is a vibra16X or clone */ > #define BD_F_MIDIBUSY 0x0400 /* midi busy */ > #define BD_F_ESS 0x0800 /* this is an ESS chip */ > > diff -ubwr snd/sound.c /sys/i386/isa/snd/sound.c > - --- snd/sound.c Fri Feb 13 15:33:08 1998 > +++ /sys/i386/isa/snd/sound.c Sat Mar 14 23:11:35 1998 > @@ -717,7 +717,7 @@ > snd_chan_param *p = (snd_chan_param *)arg; > d->play_speed = p->play_rate; > d->rec_speed = p->play_rate; /* XXX one speed allowed */ > - - if (p->play_format & SND_F_STEREO) > + if (p->play_format & AFMT_STEREO) > d->flags |= SND_F_STEREO ; > else > d->flags &= ~SND_F_STEREO ; > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:57:38 -0500 > From: Benjamin Greenwald > Subject: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > > I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx driver > is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and should > have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. > > - -Ben Greenwald > > > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > > (very) little driver programming. > > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > > be fully supported in this configuration. > > -James Flemer > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:13:11 -0500 (EST) > From: "David E. Cross" > Subject: XTI (shudder) > > Are there any plans to migrate XTI(TLI) into the kernel or provide library > support for this 'standard'? > > - -- > David Cross > UNIX Systems Administrator > GE Corporate R&D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:33:08 -0700 (MST) > From: Atipa > Subject: Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > > I have heard that those cards are architecturally unimpressive. What type > of performance do you expect? I have heard they are slower than the DECs > and Intels, especially for NFS traffic. Any comments? > > Kevin > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Benjamin Greenwald wrote: > > > I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx driver > > is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and should > > have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. > > > > -Ben Greenwald > > > > > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > > > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > > > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > > > (very) little driver programming. > > > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > > > be fully supported in this configuration. > > > -James Flemer > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:45:28 +0200 (SAT) > From: Robert Nordier > Subject: Re: newmsdosfs anyone ? > > Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > > The latest mtools works pretty well for large disks. > > > > 3.8 or later ? > > I used a 3.9 pre-release to test standalone FAT32 support I was doing > for sysinstall. Mtools did work correctly for FAT32 partitions > 0xffff > clusters, but I didn't really look at the whole package. > > [ ... ] > > I have patches (for mtools 3.0) to support HDs (but only up to 512MB) > > and make them bootable in DOS or Windows95 (you need a DOS/Win > > licence, and you need to grab the init files and boot sector and put > > them into /usr/local/lib/mtools... > > > > Would you be interested to integrate that as well ? > > If you're likely to use it, I guess it should be added. > > - -- > Robert Nordier > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:01:40 -0500 (EST) > From: "John S. Dyson" > Subject: Re: SCO (was Re: hi terry) > > > > Ron Minnich has been trying to shove his more-than-functional clustering > > > implementation into our laps for the last two or three years now. I > > > can hardly blame the guy for feeling distinctly ignored. > > > > Funny you should mention him since he just got in touch with me about > > this and I apologised for what most of -core feels is one of our more > > glaring failures to catch the ball. I think at this point that we > > should simply coerce Ron somehow (anybody know of any exploitable > > vices the guy has? :-) into joining -committers so that we're no > > longer a bottleneck for him. > > > I tend to trust Ron, BTW. > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:11:29 -0500 (EST) > From: "John S. Dyson" > Subject: Re: mremap? > > > > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), would > > > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > > > > > > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. > > > > You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way > > Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking > > (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their > > VM system). > > > > I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but > > if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping > > works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be > > able to pull it off. > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > Think of it like this: > > First, remove the old map entries in the destination location. Perhaps > saving them for undoing the effects of this operation upon failure (if > needed by the API.) > > Next, grab the map entries in the source location, removing them, if > the API requires such. Otherwise copy them. When "grabbing" the > map entries, make sure that you trim them on both sides (trim the > address space chunks (entries).) > > Put the old map entries into the new place in the map, making sure > that the offsets are fixed up... > > When copying the map entries, it is important to make sure that the > state of the destination entries is correct. You'll have to UTSL to > see how to do that. > > This is little more complex than forking a process, but not > brain surgery... Our VM code as inherited from Mach, is extremely > flexible and really easy to work with. Take a look at the fork code > (vmspace_fork) for a slightly not applicable example of moving address > space entries (map entries) around. > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:32:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Simon Shapiro > Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > > > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > Sion > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:26:04 -0500 > From: Benjamin Greenwald > Subject: Re: New vx driver (Re: vx device (3c905-100mb) ) > > I hadn't heard about any problems with NFS traffic. I've used these cards in > a mixed network with Sparc and PA-RISC workstations and I have to say I got at > least comparable NFS performance from the 3Com NIC's. > > The Intel cards are probably the best... they are certainly the most flexible. > As to the DEC cards, it is my understanding that they have alignment > restrictions (packets have to be long word aligned... therefore a copy is > required) that limit performance. > > I'm not saying the 3Com cards are the best out there. I _know_ there is a > great deal of improvement to be made (the card under Win NT screams), but just > how much I'm not going to attempt to quantify at this rather early date. The > truth is it doesn't matter. There are a lot of these cards out there and a > lot of people who run FreeBSD use them. Whatever performance we can suck out > of them, we should. If it turns out that the numbers are less impresive than > the Intel or DEC numbers, at least people can make a more informed decision > about purchasing because they'll be comparing apples to apples, not apples to > rotten acorns. For the rest of us who are stuck with what we've got, at least > we won't feel that rush of air and the sonic boom as the world passes us by. > > - -Ben > > > > > I have heard that those cards are architecturally unimpressive. What type > > of performance do you expect? I have heard they are slower than the DECs > > and Intels, especially for NFS traffic. Any comments? > > > > Kevin > > > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Benjamin Greenwald wrote: > > > > > I might as well take this as an opportunity to announce that a new vx drive > r > > > is under development. I just received the technical docs from 3Com and sho > uld > > > have a good amount of time to sit down and hack this coming week. > > > > > > -Ben Greenwald > > > > > > > The man page for the 'vx' device only mentions 10Mb support (in 2.2.2). > > > > Has this device been updated to support 100mbit yet? And if not is anyone > > > > working on updating it? I have time to work on the driver, but have done > > > > (very) little driver programming. > > > > I would like to run it at 100mbit-full-duplex, but it does not appear to > > > > be fully supported in this configuration. > > > > -James Flemer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:19:31 +0100 > From: Eivind Eklund > Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. > > Eivind. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:29:34 -0500 (EST) > From: "David E. Cross" > Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > > > > On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > > > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > > > > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > > > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > > > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > > > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > > > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > > > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > > > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. > > > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with > > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. > > This is very common indeed, it is how the dynamic linker on solaris works. > > - -- > David Cross > UNIX Systems Administrator > GE Corporate R&D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) > From: Simon Shapiro > Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > On 20-Mar-98 Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 12:32:19PM -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote: > >> > >> On 18-Mar-98 Kent S. Gordon wrote: > >> > > >> >>>>>> "shimon" == Simon Shapiro writes: > >> > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > >> > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > >> > >> This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > >> storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > >> meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > >> decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > >> storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage > >> model > >> than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > >> PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works > > better. > > > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory > > with > > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. > > Apologies then. I thought the intention was to mmap the storage manager. > I am still recovering from a nasty cold and an all-night flight back home. > The trip was worht it, though :-) > > - ---------- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro > Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:16:11 -0600 > From: Jonathan Lemon > Subject: Re: mremap? > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > location.) > > EG: > boolean_t > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > vm_size_t size; > > Would this type of routine be useful? > - -- > Jonathan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:38:01 -0500 (EST) > From: "John S. Dyson" > Subject: Re: mremap? > > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > location.) > > > > EG: > > boolean_t > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > vm_size_t size; > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." > > If there is a reasonable justification for a new system call or equiv, > I am all for it!!! > > John > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:39:40 -0800 > From: Studded > Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > [design model snipped] > > > As the author of a number of the temporary bodges we're using right > > now (/etc/rc.conf and friends), I can say that they're exactly that - > > temporary bodges with numerous limitations. I was hoping we'd stop > > hacking out ever more temporary solutions to the /etc configuration > > problem someday and start thinking of something that actually SCALES > > worth a damn, but we clearly haven't gotten to that point yet. :) > > Ok, go ahead and close the PR. If I read between the lines it sounds to > me like you don't want this as a port either, however if I'm incorrect > in that assumption please let me know and I'll see what I can do about > getting it done before the deadline. > > I agree that a better solution is desirable, I made that point myself. > If I were capable of putting together something along the lines of what > you want I would be happy to do so. However it seems to me that some > solution is better than no solution, especially when you consider that > there is currently nothing in the base that explains how to do the > upgrade properly. > > Doug > > - -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest > *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:53:53 -0600 > From: Jonathan Lemon > Subject: Re: mremap? > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 05:38:01PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > > > > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > > > > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > > > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > > > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > > > > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > > location.) > > > > > > EG: > > > boolean_t > > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > > vm_size_t size; > > > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > > > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." > > Oh, I've already have this running, and it's just for internal kernel > use at the moment (no userspace API). What I was really asking was if > this might be useful to a wider audience, and if the semantics aren't > too seriously deranged. > - -- > Jonathan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:16:57 +0000 > From: "Jeff Buseman" > Subject: (Fwd) Re: Natd Support for Microsoft PPTP / VPN using protocol > > Eivind, > > Thank you for your reponse. > > > It only handle TCP and UDP traffic. The only way to get it to handle > > something else is by asking Charles or me to make libalias do so, preferably > > with pointer to suitable documentation. I might find time to handle this > > fairly quickly if you come up with docs. > > I see that others have sent you some references, and I'm including > my summary of what I've found so far below. I have someone who would > be willing to try to capture some packets on the incoming side, if > that would help. If you need anything else that I could do, let me > know. Thanks again. > > PPTP Documentation > > RFC's describing the GRE protocol > http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1701.txt > http://www.es.net/pub/rfcs/rfc1702.txt > > Draft Proposal for PPTP > ftp://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pppext-pptp-02.txt > http://www.microsoft.com/communications/exes/draft-ietf-pppext-p > ptp-01.txt > > Linux program for protocol redirection (including protocol 47) > http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/linux_pptp.html > http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~cananian/Projects/IPfwd/ > > Microsoft Documentation on PPTP > Index: http://www.microsoft.com/communications/morepptp.htm > > Microsoft Dial-Up Networking Documentation (DUN12.DOC) > http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q166/2/88.asp > (Section 4 briefly describes PPTP / Firewalls) > > > Jeff Buseman > jeff@netronix.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:27:49 -0500 (EST) > From: "John S. Dyson" > Subject: Re: mremap? > > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 05:38:01PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > On Mar 03, 1998 at 03:11:29PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > > > I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > > > > > it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > > > > > of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > > > > > the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > > > > > works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > > > > > to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > > > > > do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > > > > > there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > > > > > > > > I have something similar to this, but slightly different: > > > > > > > > I want to be able to map part of an address space of one process > > > > into the address space of a different process, at a different location, > > > > resulting in shared memory between the processes. > > > > > > > > (Why? I wanted a "vm86" process, with 1MB mapped starting at address 0, > > > > and the same region mapped into the "control" process, at a different > > > > location.) > > > > > > > > EG: > > > > boolean_t > > > > vm_map_shared(smap, dmap, saddr, daddr, size) > > > > vm_map_t smap, dmap; > > > > vm_offset_t saddr, daddr; > > > > vm_size_t size; > > > > > > > > Would this type of routine be useful? > > > > > > > I suspect that it would be useful, given a "use." I don't know enough > > > about exactly what the userland API would/should look like (re: security, > > > and features) to implement it "off the top of my head." > > > > Oh, I've already have this running, and it's just for internal kernel > > use at the moment (no userspace API). What I was really asking was if > > this might be useful to a wider audience, and if the semantics aren't > > too seriously deranged. > > > It looks okay, I wouldn't mind if it was added :-). I would support > adding it. There is absolutely no reason for me to stand in the way > of progress!!! > > John > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:56:00 -0500 > From: Ken Key > Subject: Need Intel 82557/82558 Ethernet docs to hack if_fxp. > > Hi folks, > > I want to try a slightly sick hack to the if_fxp driver and am having > a devil of a time finding adequate programming docs for the Intel 82557 > or 82558 LAN controller. I've pulled the data sheets off of Intel's > developer web-site but it skips completely over the actual device driver > interface and refers to the "82557 Users Manual", that I cannot find > a reference to at their site. Does anyone know how a mere mortal may > obtain a copy of this manual to hack on the if_fxp? > > Thanks, > Ken Key (key@cs.utk.edu) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:37 -0500 > From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com > Subject: FW: Digi Exp > > Sorry, I tried to send this message personally but it was not > delivered. I think it's not to far from -hackers subject. > > > ---------- > > From: Babkin, Serge > > Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 1:20 PM > > To: 'decebal@moldnet.md' > > Subject: RE: Digi Exp > > > > ---------- > > From: decebal@moldnet.md[SMTP:decebal@moldnet.md] > > > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > no, you can't do this, are you sure we don't support this? > > > > > > > Yes FreeBSD doesn't support Xem. > > FreeBSD suport Xe board that is not like Xem. > > I compiled Xe driver and kernel was not able to init the board. > > > > Well, Linux has sources for Digi Xem and all Digi boards for all buses > > but i am just beginer and will not be able to port them to FreeBSD. > > > > In this case it must be not that difficult provided that > > the FreeBSD driver (yes, originally written by me) was > > originally based on Linux driver and although many > > things were redesigned, the > > major structure is probably still like Linux. If it's not > > then perhaps it's time to drop the GNU-style copyright > > from it :-) > > > > -SB > > > > P.S. Personally I'm not going to add Xem support for BSD because I > > have now no Digi card and, yet worse, I have no motivation to do that. > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:14:22 +1100 > From: David Dawes > Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 > > On Tue, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:42:31AM +0900, Makoto MATSUSHITA wrote: > > > >Sorry I do not know why multibyte-supporting locale is out of libc... > > > >k.keithley> What's the rationale for having the SJIS and EUC locale > >k.keithley> support in libxpg4 instead of libc? > > > >IMHO, we should link with xpg4 library when linking X libraries to > >compile X application. Many FreeBSD ports application tries to link > >so, especially in japanese and x11 category (these applications try to > >link xpg4 library manually; ahh, where the imake framework has gone :-) > > > >How about changing $XTOP/X11/lib/config/FreeBSD.cf to add -lxpg4 > >to linker's option, when the FreeBSD's version >= 2.2 ? > > So, what's the official position of FreeBSD on this? If it is going to > stay in libxpg4 rather than be in libc, I'll make the appropriate change > to the FreeBSD.cf in the XFree86 source. Perhaps something like the > following (relative to XFree86 3.3.2)? > > > *** FreeBSD.cf 1998/03/01 01:08:59 3.58.2.11 > - --- xc/config/cf/FreeBSD.cf 1998/03/21 02:12:22 > *************** > *** 59,65 **** > - --- 59,70 ---- > #define DefaultCCOptions -ansi -pedantic -Dasm=__asm > #endif > #ifndef ExtraLibraries > + /* support for multi-byte locales is in libxpg4 rather than libc */ > + #if OSMajorVersion > 2 || (OSMajorVersion == 2 && OSMinorVersion >= 2) > + #define ExtraLibraries -lxpg4 > + #else > #define ExtraLibraries /**/ > + #endif > #endif > #ifndef UseGnuMalloc > /* 2.2 doesn't really have GnuMalloc */ > > > David > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:19:30 -0800 > From: Joe McGuckin > Subject: fxp strange problem > > I have had odd problems with a number of fxp cards. I'm using 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > I have a machine that refuses to work if I plug it into a BAY 350T 10/100 > ethernet switch. I don't even get status or link lights. If I plug it into > a 10Mb ethernet hub, it works fine. > > Any ideas ? > > Joe > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:32:23 -0500 > From: "Alfred Perlstein" > Subject: Re: mremap? > > wouldn't a simple resolution lie in just "locking" the kernel, unmapping the > segment and seeing if it was possible to remap it according to the user's > wishes then mmap it again the unlock the kernel? in SMP situations if the > request for a remap fialed right after the unmap we could check if the user > specified the "unmoveable flag" and then remap as/if nessesary. > > > maybe this isn't the most effecient method.. but i makes sense to someone > who hasn't even looked at the sources yet in regards to implementing this. > > i'm looking at your proposals for mremap() right after i send this. > > - -Alfred > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: John S. Dyson > >To: Mike Smith > >Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > > >Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:13 AM > >Subject: Re: mremap? > > > > > >>> > ok, i'm not promising anything here, but if i implemented mremap(), > >would > >>> > there be any interest in allowing it into -current? > >>> > > >>> > mremap just allows for moving and resizing mmap'd segments. > >>> > >>> You're more than welcome to give it a try. I had a look at the way > >>> Linux does it, and frankly the layering violations were pretty shocking > >>> (although there appears to be a great deal less sophistication in their > >>> VM system). > >>> > >>> I couldn't see how to provide similar functionality with FreeBSD, but > >>> if you're willing to get a little close to the way that memory mapping > >>> works (check with David Greenman if you need advice here) you should be > >>> able to pull it off. > >>> > >>I was planning on implementing mremap. I am not sure of the api, but > >>it should be "easy" to implement with our current VM code. Think > >>of map entries as being the address space "chunks", and objects as being > >>the data repositorys. I want to foster others knowing how the code > >>works, so now I don't want to do it :-). It would take me about 4Hrs > >>to implement, and I want more people on the project to be able to > >>do this stuff. The initial learning curve is long, but after that, > >>there will be more people yet who know how the VM code works!!! :-). > >> > >>Think of it like this: > >> > >>First, remove the old map entries in the destination location. Perhaps > >>saving them for undoing the effects of this operation upon failure (if > >>needed by the API.) > >> > >>Next, grab the map entries in the source location, removing them, if > >>the API requires such. Otherwise copy them. When "grabbing" the > >>map entries, make sure that you trim them on both sides (trim the > >>address space chunks (entries).) > >> > >>Put the old map entries into the new place in the map, making sure > >>that the offsets are fixed up... > >> > >>When copying the map entries, it is important to make sure that the > >>state of the destination entries is correct. You'll have to UTSL to > >>see how to do that. > >> > >>This is little more complex than forking a process, but not > >>brain surgery... Our VM code as inherited from Mach, is extremely > >>flexible and really easy to work with. Take a look at the fork code > >>(vmspace_fork) for a slightly not applicable example of moving address > >>space entries (map entries) around. > >> > >>John > >> > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:48:28 -0600 > From: Dan Nelson > Subject: Re: fxp strange problem > > In the last episode (Mar 20), Joe McGuckin said: > > > > > > I have had odd problems with a number of fxp cards. I'm using > > 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > > > I have a machine that refuses to work if I plug it into a BAY 350T > > 10/100 ethernet switch. I don't even get status or link lights. If I > > plug it into a 10Mb ethernet hub, it works fine. > > I've seen this happen on 350T's also. Try forcing one or both ends > (the card via ifconfig media, or the 350T via the telnet interface) to > the speed you want and see if that helps. > > -Dan Nelson > dnelson@emsphone.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:25:25 -0800 > From: Joe McGuckin > Subject: inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. > > What causes this? It seems to unrecoverable. Inetd must be restarted > by hand. > > - -joe > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:45:04 -0500 (EST) > From: "John S. Dyson" > Subject: Re: inetd in realloc():warning:junk pointer, towo low to make sense. > > > > > What causes this? It seems to unrecoverable. Inetd must be restarted > > by hand. > > > I have seen the problem when running a buggered version of -current. If > you are running a current between 13-mar and 20-mar, you could be hosing > your filesystems. > > John > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:38:12 +0100 (MET) > From: Wilko Bulte > Subject: Re: netscape4 weirdness: what is happening here?? > > As Randall Hopper wrote... > > Wilko Bulte: > > |I'm running Netscape 4 on my 2.2.5R box. Every now and then it refuses to > > |start properly. It just loops, consuming CPU. > > | > > | 979 netscape.bin CALL gettimeofday(0xefbfa4f0,0) > > | 979 netscape.bin RET gettimeofday 0 > > | 979 netscape.bin CALL sigreturn(0xefbfa5b8) > > | 979 netscape.bin RET sigreturn JUSTRETURN > > | 979 netscape.bin PSIG SIGALRM caught handler=0x76cdf8 mask=0x0 code=0x0 > > ... > > | > > |This repeats forever. FWIW this happens both with and without the ISDN/ppp > > |link to the Internet. > > > > Ollivier Robert: > > |export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null > > > > garman@earthling.net: > > |More simply, every time this happened to me, I found that removing the line: > > | > > |user_pref("browser.startup.license_accepted", "1000 4.04"); > > FWIW: the fix Ollivier suggested seems to do the trick for me. > > Netscape seems to be a truly weird program. %-) > > Wilko > _ ______________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl > |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:05:31 +0100 (CET) > From: Andrzej Bialecki > Subject: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.31 > > Hi! > > I am pleased to announce that PicoBSD version 0.31 is available. This is a > version of FreeBSD fitting on a single floppy - it can serve as a > dialup-access tool (includes SSH, telnet and FTP clients), or as a small > router replacement (includes IP firewall and SNMP agent). Visit > > http://www.freebsd.org/~abial > > for further information and download. > > Have fun! > > Andrzej Bialecki > > - ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ --- > abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. > - ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ --- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:48:27 +0000 (GMT) > From: Terry Lambert > Subject: Re: How do you increase available SYSV shared memory? > > > > > > I have been thinking of changing Postgres to use mmapped files instead > > > > > of SYSV shared memory. I think this should allow for larger postgres > > > > > > > > This will be a disaster. It assumes that PostgreSQL uses files for data > > > > storage. While this is the default mode, it is NOT the only storage > > > > meanager. In PostgreSQL, like most true RDBMS, the storage of data is > > > > decoupled from the logic of the relational model, etc. I am building a > > > > storage manager that uses a totally different (distributed) storage model > > > > than Unix files. A memory based storage manager already exists in > > > > PostgreSQL. Please do not break these. > > > > > > I don't think you're quite getting him (or I'm not getting you at all). > > > mmap()ing /dev/zero is a common way of getting hold of shared memory, > > > instead of using the SYSV SHMEM extension. mmap'ing usually works better. > > > > > > This is just replacing one technique for getting hold of shared memory with > > > another; it does nothing to the storage manager. > > > > This is very common indeed, it is how the dynamic linker on solaris works. > > > As a point of interest, virtual memory *without* a backing object > works *significantly* faster than virtual memory *with* a backing > object. > > This should be pretty obvious from simple observation of what a > backing object means: it means that you must maintain write-through > cache coherency for the object, going through the VFS code to do it. > > There are a number of large wins you could wring out of the VFS code > that FreeBSD may be on the road to wringing, but a backing object > still tends to nail flodding after the high water-mark to the speed > of the pager (either the swap pager (which is fast) or the vnode > pager (which is less fast). > > I think John Dyson did significant work to speed up anonymous shared > memory. I *think* it should work with /dev/zero, but of course, you > would have to implement some mechanism of region sharing on top of > that (/dev/zero pages are copy-on-write, and would only be shared by > child processes, and then only in specific rfork circumstances). > > > That said, I believe there are currently reasons, until you can use > a procfs call to adopt a copy-on-write region as a non-copy-on-write > region in another process (ie: copy the pages if they are /dev/zero > pages, but share them otherwise), that SYSV SHMEM is actually a > better (in terms of performance) technology. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > - --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > End of freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 > ************************************ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 18:34:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19505 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:34:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19493 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toniel@flash.net) Received: from figaro (paltc2-103.flash.net [209.30.96.103]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08471 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:34:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980321183329.00936790@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: toniel@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:33:29 -0800 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Tim O'Neil" Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #75 In-Reply-To: <199803220130.RAA06352@norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG szabo wrote: >Please cancel this newsletter. Thank you. Well, I replied with instructions and a full quote of his letter. Anyone else? -Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 19:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24607 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:21:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24594 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:20:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07494; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:14:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803220314.TAA07494@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Frank Nobis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where to put source for a new ethernet card driver In-reply-to: Your message of "20 Mar 1998 09:24:40 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:14:45 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I am currently working on a port of the linux driver for a Schneider & > Koch SK G16 ethernet card. It is an older ISA modell, but I have a > bunch of them and need to support them :-/ > > At first I made two files if_skg16.[ch] to do the work. But the longer > I tried it and took code segments from the ed driver it come to me > that putting support for the SK G16 into he ed driver might be a good > idea. > > What is your opinion about that? Should we blow up the the ed driver > more and more or clutter around a bunch of standalone drivers? Is the card based on an 8390 or compatible device? If so, at worst you will have to add a probe/attach routine and interface methods. You may not want to have your code committed, depending on the overall popularity of the card in question, but this is certainly the *easiest* way to go. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 20:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:05:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow26.verinet.com [199.45.181.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29672 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00764; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:05:38 -0700 (MST) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199803220405.VAA00764@const.> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Discussion about script to update /etc, etc. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmmmmm. I don't like this. I think we need to simply bite the bullet > and make the user-mutable parts of the /etc configuration template > based, as Paul Traina first suggested about, oh, 2 years ago. :-) I had no success searching for Paul's message(s) which you cite here. Do you happen to remember which list? I tried config, hackers and stable. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 21 22:13:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12577 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jazz.snu.ac.kr (jazz.snu.ac.kr [147.46.59.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12572 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junker@jazz.snu.ac.kr) Received: (from junker@localhost) by jazz.snu.ac.kr (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21334; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:10:24 +0900 (KST) To: David Dawes Cc: Makoto MATSUSHITA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Subject: Re: 3.0-971225SNAP, Japanese/Korean locales, and libxpg4 References: <350D7ED6.5372@opengroup.org> <19980317114231J.matusita@ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp> <19980321131422.62616@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> From: CHOI Junho Date: 22 Mar 1998 15:10:24 +0900 In-Reply-To: David Dawes's message of Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:14:22 +1100 Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG - So, what's the official position of FreeBSD on this? If it is going to - stay in libxpg4 rather than be in libc, I'll make the appropriate change - to the FreeBSD.cf in the XFree86 source. Perhaps something like the - following (relative to XFree86 3.3.2)? I think it is good enough for now... of course it cannot resolve some problem of command-line utilities(more, vi, perl5, etc...), but in the X-window, it is good, and better if later FreeBSD release(2.2.6?) will include XFree86 3.3.2 with xpg4 library... -- ----Cool FreeBSD!----MSX Forever!---J.U.N.K.E.R/Beat Snatchers!---- CHOI Junho http://jazz.snu.ac.kr/~junker Distributed Computing System Lab,CS Dept.,Seoul National Univ., ROK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message