From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 03:23:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:23:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow20.verinet.com [199.45.181.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00162 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:23:34 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10069 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:24:29 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804191024.EAA10069@const.> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. In-Reply-To: <199804182328.QAA25724@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as > > such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of > > the data from the database in traditional format. > > This is a *terrifically* cool idea! This simply obsoletes any idea to-date that I know of for supporting the legacy system. Terry, I have followed your advocacy of LDAP (or a similar alternative) for some time now and I have some questions. How do you address an assertion which says dependency on a database reduces robustness because of, for instance, database corruption? Do you disregard the assertion based on evolutionary necessity ('bite the bullet') or do you dispute that there is any significant compromise at all? Does a configuration database imply a client/server design and, therefore, a daemon to implement the server, or do you expect that a static/shared library would allow the client direct access? The former provides for a very thin client and powerful concurrency control (such as signaling registered clients when the hostname changes.) The latter has the appeal of not requiring an daemon which would be tough to support in minimalist applications. Both perhaps? Different parts of the configuration hierarchy have different security requirements and this will ultimately require close integration with the kernel for enforcement, authentication, etc. How does that square with a user mode subsystem such as LDAP? (A disclaimer on this one; I am not proficient enough with LDAP to assert that this isn't already provided for, I merely suspect not. As a database applications developer, I have learned that there is little integration between host system security and database security in contemporary SQL database systems.) Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com ps. This thread should be migrated to the config list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 04:03:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (ts01-19.waterford.indigo.ie [194.125.139.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05065 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:03:37 GMT (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA00294 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:02:09 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from rotel@indigo.ie) From: Niall Smart Message-Id: <199804191102.MAA00294@indigo.ie> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:02:09 +0000 Reply-To: rotel@indigo.ie X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 19, 4:24am, allen campbell wrote: } Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. > > > Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as > > > such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of > > > the data from the database in traditional format. > > > > This is a *terrifically* cool idea! Would this be read-only or read-write? Read-write sounds tough. Niall -- Niall Smart. PGP: finger njs3@motmot.doc.ic.ac.uk FreeBSD: Turning PC's into Workstations: www.freebsd.org Annoy your enemies and astonish your friends: echo "#define if(x) if (!(x))" >> /usr/include/stdio.h To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 05:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12919 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12905; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804191219.FAA12905@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: the place of vi In-Reply-To: <199804182107.AAA15999@shadows.aeon.net> from mika ruohotie at "Apr 19, 98 00:07:47 am" To: bsdhack@shadows.aeon.net (mika ruohotie) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mika ruohotie wrote: > > > floppy. What is it with the silly threads this week in -hackers? > > No you silly. People *never* read the list charters or subscribe to > > -chat. :-) > > and those who ATTEMPT to subscribe into chat cant seen to GET > anything from that list. silly me! i dont see a subscription to freebsd-chat. ;) cvs-all:bsdcvs@shadows.aeon.net freebsd-advocacy:bsdadv@shadows.aeon.net freebsd-commit:bsdcom@aeon.net freebsd-current:freebsd@aeon.net freebsd-fs:bsdfs@aeon.net freebsd-hackers:bsdhack@aeon.net freebsd-hardware:bsdhw@aeon.net freebsd-isp:bsdisp@aeon.net freebsd-mozilla:bsdmoz@shadows.aeon.net freebsd-ports:bsdports@shadows.aeon.net freebsd-scsi:bsdscsi@aeon.net freebsd-security:bsdsec@aeon.net freebsd-smp:bsdsmp@aeon.net freebsd-stable:bsdstab@shadows.aeon.net jmb > > i mean, i used to be on that list, then something major blew up, > i as told, and then i asked from majordomo, it tells me i'm on > the list, but i get nothing. i resub, and it still tells me i'm > on the list, i get nothing (but an occasional spam). > > i did that few times more, nothing. doesnt apear to be a problem in > any other of those 15 mailinglists i've subscribed myself. i count 14? > > but at least, majordomo thinks i'm on the list, so i must be. i dont think so ;) wanna resubscribe? jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve JMB193 http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 05:27:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:27:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14275 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:27:16 GMT (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Message-Id: <199804191227.MAA14275@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 26487 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1998 04:29:48 -0000 Received: from ins15.tama-ap3.dti.ne.jp (HELO choota.signet.or.jp) (203.181.67.15) by wafu.netgate.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1998 04:29:48 -0000 Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id VAA00737; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:26:38 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net Subject: Introducing gozilla(1). Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:26:38 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, This is a introduction of gozilla(1). You can send HTML file to mozilla from any where using gozilla. For example, % cd /usr/local/jdk1.1.5 % gozilla index.html Then you will find the document(index.html) displayed on mozilla. If mozilla has not been loaded, gozilla loads it. Following command line works too. % gozilla http://www.freebsd.org % gozilla -C 'pagedown' 'pagedown' is mozilla command, which is undocumented but the hint is in the resource file of mozilla (Netscape.ad). Documentation for the protocol which gozilla implements may be found at: http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/x-remote.html Installation gozilla in FreeBSD 2.2.6 or FreeBSD-current. # cd /usr/src/contrib/global/gozilla # xmkmf # make # make install # make install.man Good luck! -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 07:40:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25924 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (cerebus.nectar.com [204.27.67.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25918 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:40:21 GMT (envelope-from nectar@cerebus.nectar.com) Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (localhost.communique.net [127.0.0.1]) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04075 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:39:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804191439.JAA04075@cerebus.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Pgp-Rsafprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-Pgp-Rsakey: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x094724A9 From: Jacques Vidrine To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: how much room to ``make release'' Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:39:44 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi folks, I want to build a custom release. Can someone familiar with the process guesstimate the amount of diskspace I would need to do so? /home/ncvs (the current repository) is about 443 Mb. How much room will I need for /usr/src, /usr/obj, and ${CHROOTDIR}? (/usr/src/ release/Makefile says "at least 600MB" for ${CHROOTDIR}, but I'm afraid the comment might be dated.) Oh, and one more thing: I've looked at the handbook, and it seems to indicate that I must have /usr/src/release checked out. Do I need to check out anything else (such as the rest of /usr/src)? What tag should I use for checking out /usr/src/release (the head, or the tag of the release I want to build, i.e. ${RELEASETAG})? Much obliged!! Jacques Vidrine -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNToMrzeRhT8JRySpAQGm+QP9HglqyfadXdmuiTBc5vTmBG68QuQ9SR0Z VJE6cbS7C3o7T67grzlAAWjoyvo/TTi/zrUfg5XN+/ptUMg5tKeiRktFveEloKus 1hEQcpSwx9+z44n2IqsBFuAl5IEqSbJ9qcqlfte4968DkBfppyajODkz0Hp8obp+ 61mcSADqAv0= =ul2B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 09:44:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles236.castles.com [208.214.165.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13667 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:43:53 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01796; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804191641.JAA01796@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: rotel@indigo.ie cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:02:09 -0000." <199804191102.MAA00294@indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:41:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Apr 19, 4:24am, allen campbell wrote: > } Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. > > > > Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as > > > > such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of > > > > the data from the database in traditional format. > > > > > > This is a *terrifically* cool idea! > > Would this be read-only or read-write? > > Read-write sounds tough. Read/write would involve some rather bizarre semantics, as vetting a file's contents could really only be done at last close, so you'd be hard-pressed to return a helpful error. Still, it'd be doable. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 10:25:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles236.castles.com [208.214.165.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22522 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:24:48 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01988 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804191722.KAA01988@antipodes.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:22:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To: undisclosed-recipients:; ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: allen campbell cc: config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:24:29 MDT." <199804191024.EAA10069@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:22:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith > > How do you address an assertion which says dependency on a database > reduces robustness because of, for instance, database corruption? How do you address an assertion which says dependency on configuration files reduces robustness because of, for instance, file corruption? > Do you disregard the assertion based on evolutionary necessity > ('bite the bullet') or do you dispute that there is any significant > compromise at all? Corruption can come from at least couple of sources: - Faulty applications. - Backing store (filesystem) corruption. - User error. In the case of plain text files, application faults are less an issue (most text editors work OK), but the others remain an issue. With a database, especially in the early stages, you have to worry more about the stability of the application(s), but less about the user being able to nuke things. By leveraging a known-stable database engine (the Umich LDAP server), we hope to reduce the application-fault vulnerability profile. > Does a configuration database imply a client/server design and, > therefore, a daemon to implement the server, or do you expect that > a static/shared library would allow the client direct access? Client/server is highly desirable, but starting the server early enough to be useful is a bit of a challenge. > The > former provides for a very thin client and powerful concurrency > control (such as signaling registered clients when the hostname > changes.) The latter has the appeal of not requiring an daemon > which would be tough to support in minimalist applications. Both > perhaps? A read-only client library would have numerous advantages for minimalist applications, yes. > Different parts of the configuration hierarchy have different > security requirements and this will ultimately require close > integration with the kernel for enforcement, authentication, etc. > How does that square with a user mode subsystem such as LDAP? The Umich server supports the use of password-protected ACLs. In addition, one can use SSL to secure communications with the server. Combining this with FreeBSD's ability to unequivocally ascertain the credentials of the process at the other end of an IPC channel, an end-to-end secure and authenticated pipe can be constructed from a local application, via a local forwarder to a remote parameter store. > As a database applications developer, I have learned that there is > little integration between host system security and database security > in contemporary SQL database systems.) The real challenge as we move to a distributed parameter store is to shift perspective back a little further and see that database security encompasses the entire network, not just a single host. But you're right in this case - the system's security model must be incorporated. - -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 14:16:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:16:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12797 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:14:35 GMT (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca124-36.ix.netcom.com [207.223.162.164]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09277; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09502; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804192114.OAA09502@baloon.mimi.com> To: shigio@wafu.netgate.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shigio@wafu.netgate.net In-reply-to: <199804191227.MAA14275@hub.freebsd.org> (message from Shigio Yamaguchi on Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:26:38 +0900) Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * This is a introduction of gozilla(1). ^^^^^^^ That sounds great, but isn't it missing a `d'? :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 14:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16242 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16182; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:33:24 GMT (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18152; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018111; Sun Apr 19 14:33:15 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14057; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:33:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804192133.OAA14057@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. To: allenc@verinet.com (allen campbell) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:33:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804191024.EAA10069@const.> from "allen campbell" at Apr 19, 98 04:24:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as > > > such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of > > > the data from the database in traditional format. > > > > This is a *terrifically* cool idea! > > This simply obsoletes any idea to-date that I know of for supporting > the legacy system. [ ... ] > Terry, I have followed your advocacy of LDAP (or a similar alternative) > for some time now and I have some questions. OK! Let me point out here that though I think LDAP is the best fit, what we are really talking about is a attribute name/attribute value pair, and whether it's implement with LDAP, ACAP, or as an extenstion to SMTP, it's pretty irrelevent. The wins are independent of the implementation details. > How do you address an assertion which says dependency on a database > reduces robustness because of, for instance, database corruption? > Do you disregard the assertion based on evolutionary necessity > ('bite the bullet') or do you dispute that there is any significant > compromise at all? I dispute that there is a significant compromise. There *is* a potential compromise. Opponents of using a database design point to partial corruption equalling partial recoverability in the flat file. I would point out to this position that the flat files use the underlying file system, which has the same semantics as those that have been proposed for the user space code. The assumption here seems to be that you can't build a robust, user space transactioning system on top of a robust, kernel space transactioning system. It's pretty easy to prove this assumption wrong from a technical perspective. We can take the example of pwd_mkdb, the program that synchronizes the passwd/pwd.db files. It has exactly the same issues to deal with. In fact, pwd_mkdb is a rather nifty example, because it shows us a feature that we can't get anywhere else: schema enforcement. If the proposed change would render the database inconsistent, the change is refused. The compromise lies in the non-robustness assumption; it not real, because it's silly to assume that people who *can't* write robust user space code *can* write robust kernel space code. It's pretty much binary: they can or the can't, and the user/kernel qualification is irrelevent. > Does a configuration database imply a client/server design and, > therefore, a daemon to implement the server, or do you expect that > a static/shared library would allow the client direct access? The > former provides for a very thin client and powerful concurrency > control (such as signaling registered clients when the hostname > changes.) The latter has the appeal of not requiring an daemon > which would be tough to support in minimalist applications. Both > perhaps? I would prefer the client/server design. This simplifies the local database access by making it the same as the remote database access. This skirts serialization issues that would otherwise have to be addressed. Mostly these are concerned with multiple writer issues, but there are also transactioning issues that could be addressed at the protocol level, but not enforcible in the direct access case. There are also issues of security model enforcement if you allow local access via some other method. I think that if there is one access point, this enforces a single security model. You can easily get credentials of the "remote" process over a POSIX domain socket in FreeBSD at this point, so "root" authentication is pretty trivial in the boot stage. You could do the same with the loopback interface; the real issue to deal with here is whether or not you will force the existance of full-blown networking. I think it would be a mistake to *require* IPv4 (for example). At the same time, the BSD IPC model is sockets and/or named pipes, and the underlying implementation is tied to the POSIX domain. Short of rejecting the BSD IPC model in favor of the System V model (a bad idea), I can't see not requiring a formal IPC mechanism of *some* kind. The final argument in favor of a client/server model is "very thin clients". This might include printers, scanners, login servers, and so on, which are not very intelligent on their own, but need the services of a more intelligent device (or would function better with the services of such a device than they would function without). This argument also favors the use of SLP (Service Location Protocol), ala the RFC (see http://www.srvloc.org ) after DHCP or 10/8 address configuration to locate such things as document stores (where a FAX machine that isn't a printer, for example) could store incoming documents. > Different parts of the configuration hierarchy have different > security requirements and this will ultimately require close > integration with the kernel for enforcement, authentication, etc. > How does that square with a user mode subsystem such as LDAP? Well, I addressed a little of this above. If you have followed the SMBFS discussions in the past, the rest can be very effectively handled through a credential management interface attached to the login session. The most convenient place to put this seems, to me, to be in a UNIX session manager. All credential requests from the kernel to a process would be indirected through the session manager process, which could choose to answer the requests on the user's behalf. This leads to three models: 1) User query, where the session manager butts in and asks the user for the credential. This is best suited to X and to the local console, and such other devices as could refresh the screen transparently without the application having to know the query has taken place. 2) Operation time query. For example, the mount system call could return ENEEDAUTH, and the mount command could, if isatty(fileno(stdout)) was true, interrogate the user for a password. 3) Preload, where the credential information is preloaded by the user before the operation is attempted. This is less useful interactively, but would allow a "password cache" type facility. Together, these models appear to address the rest of your issues for coupling of the security model. It wouldn't be necessary to require a session manager initially; one is only required when you start trying to do tricky stuff that relies on you already having the associated infrastructure. For example, you'd need something like this to hold an ACL reference if you wanted to let non-root user manage who had accounts, etc.. I personally dislike the idea of splitting administrative control into functional domains (in that direction lies SCO ODT and UNIX ES), but I agree that it shouldn't be architected against, in case someone else wants to implement it for some strange reason. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 14:39:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17928 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:39:25 GMT (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19297; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd019278; Sun Apr 19 14:39:12 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14350; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:39:10 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804192139.OAA14350@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration To: rotel@indigo.ie Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:39:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804191102.MAA00294@indigo.ie> from "Niall Smart" at Apr 19, 98 12:02:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as > > > > such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of > > > > the data from the database in traditional format. > > > > > > This is a *terrifically* cool idea! > > Would this be read-only or read-write? > > Read-write sounds tough. It is harder, but not significantly difficult. The problems lie mostly in comment fields in files like /etc/protocols; if you want to maintain them, you will need to modify the getprotoent(3) function to allow them to be returned. I view the need to provide this as a need to support statically linked programs that are linked against a legacy libc. This is mostly a problem for BSD code alone, though a much smaller subset of the databases are accessed by Linux and other emulated platforms. Most of this code is not read/write code, since there is not a libc(3) mechanism for writing password entries, /etc/services or similar files, etc.. The databases are themselves predominantly read-only, and tend to change infrequently (with the exception of the accounts database, which is already using this model and importing/exporting; that code would be easy to roll in). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 14:47:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19882 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:46:53 GMT (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00328; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:46:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Message-ID: <353A70A6.E90B3645@tdx.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:46:14 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: allen campbell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (was Discussion : Using DHCP) - Now 'Config Databases' References: <199804192133.OAA14057@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Two things... 1. The subject line on this message is the worst I've seen in a long time - Will whoever replies next tidy it up properly (like I didn't! :-) 2. This has been cross-posted to hackers & config... I've only posted it to hackers - as looking back that's where most the messages went... I'm all to willing to move to Config if that's where it's / were meant to be! Someone else wrote: > > How do you address an assertion which says dependency on a database > > reduces robustness because of, for instance, database corruption? > > Do you disregard the assertion based on evolutionary necessity > > ('bite the bullet') or do you dispute that there is any significant > > compromise at all? Terry Lambert wrote: > I dispute that there is a significant compromise. > > There *is* a potential compromise. Opponents of using a database > design point to partial corruption equalling partial recoverability > in the flat file. > > I would point out to this position that the flat files use the > underlying file system, which has the same semantics as those > that have been proposed for the user space code. > > [snip - holy cow, what a lot to snip!] For my $.02 worth: I used to use an application on SCO (I forget the name now) that used to hold _all_ it's config in a database... The database was like the 'dreaded registry', i.e. proprietry format etc. - But what it did have (that really saved it's self!) was a number of utilities for exporting the database out in text format, and for important text files into the database - The database design was also pretty good as well - i.e. if it did get corrupt (which it only did once) - the 'dump' routines would get as far as the corruption - perhaps screw up a couple of records - and then keep going with the others... Thus you'd get a couple of 'dodgy' records in your text dump which you could edit by hand, then nuke the config database - and re-import the text file once it was cleaned up... It would be nice to see a config database done 'the propper way', i.e. not liable to application corruption etc. - perhaps even with 'descriptions' for all the records it holds... ;-) ho hum... Another can of worms just opens... Regards, Karl Pielorz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 15:04:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:04:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22400 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:04:45 GMT (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25005; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd024957; Sun Apr 19 15:04:33 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15767; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:04:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804192204.PAA15767@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: (was Discussion : Using DHCP) - Now 'Config Databases' To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:04:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, allenc@verinet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <353A70A6.E90B3645@tdx.co.uk> from "Karl Pielorz" at Apr 19, 98 10:46:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 2. This has been cross-posted to hackers & config... I've only posted it to > hackers - as looking back that's where most the messages went... I'm all to > willing to move to Config if that's where it's / were meant to be! Replied to on the -config list. Sorry about the other one; it was not supposed to go to -hackers. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 15:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22842 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:07:20 GMT (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA06202; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:07:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980419170718.03893@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:07:18 -0500 From: dannyman To: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). Mail-Followup-To: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199804191227.MAA14275@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804191227.MAA14275@hub.freebsd.org>; from Shigio Yamaguchi on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 09:26:38PM +0900 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 09:26:38PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > Hi, > This is a introduction of gozilla(1). will we find gozilla in ports sometime soon? ;) -dan -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 15:22:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25156 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25039 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:22:15 GMT (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21888; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:20:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: dannyman cc: Shigio Yamaguchi , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-Reply-To: <19980419170718.03893@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, dannyman wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 09:26:38PM +0900, Shigio Yamaguchi wrote: > > Hi, > > This is a introduction of gozilla(1). > > will we find gozilla in ports sometime soon? ;) Seeing as it's a very actively developed thing, with it's own cvs tree here, I'd bet it won't for a few months. > > -dan > > -- > // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves > \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 15:59:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29808 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29794; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:59:20 GMT (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29911; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:14:29 PDT." <199804192114.OAA09502@baloon.mimi.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:59:23 -0700 Message-ID: <29907.893026763@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also, isn't it like just a 5 line shell function to do this? You can do a lot with ``netscape -remote "openURL(..someurl..)"'' and just a bit of glue to figure out what kind of URL is expressly given or implied in the arguments. I have a few simple shell functions which do pretty much everything gozilla is documented as doing in your email, so simple that I'd be almost embarassed to make a whole new command out of them. :-) Or is there more to gozilla than meets the eye? > * This is a introduction of gozilla(1). > ^^^^^^^ > That sounds great, but isn't it missing a `d'? :) > > Satoshi > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:00:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00133; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:00:27 GMT (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29933; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert cc: allenc@verinet.com (allen campbell), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:33:12 -0000." <199804192133.OAA14057@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:00:21 -0700 Message-ID: <29930.893026821@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > and whether it's implement with LDAP, ACAP, or as an extenstion to > SMTP, it's pretty irrelevent. The wins are independent of the SMTP? :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04798 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04781; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:20:07 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03070; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:20:02 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA12627; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:20:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980420012002.65150@follo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:20:02 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Satoshi Asami Cc: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). References: <199804192114.OAA09502@baloon.mimi.com> <29907.893026763@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <29907.893026763@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 03:59:23PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 03:59:23PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Also, isn't it like just a 5 line shell function to do this? You can > do a lot with ``netscape -remote "openURL(..someurl..)"'' and just a > bit of glue to figure out what kind of URL is expressly given or > implied in the arguments. I have a few simple shell functions which > do pretty much everything gozilla is documented as doing in your > email, so simple that I'd be almost embarassed to make a whole new > command out of them. :-) > > Or is there more to gozilla than meets the eye? It runs the mozilla remote protocol, at least, so it does _not_ launch a 10MB binary. IMO, that alone is worth a whole new command :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:26:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06281; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:24:45 GMT (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00282; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Satoshi Asami , shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:20:02 +0200." <19980420012002.65150@follo.net> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: <278.893028280@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It runs the mozilla remote protocol, at least, so it does _not_ launch > a 10MB binary. IMO, that alone is worth a whole new command :-) That's a good point - I'd not thought of that. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09706 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09614; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:35:54 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01708; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804192335.QAA01708@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Eivind Eklund , Satoshi Asami , shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:24:40 PDT." <278.893028280@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:35:26 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I missed something . gozilla issues a remote protocol to what? netscape If so then you are running netscape. Amancio > > It runs the mozilla remote protocol, at least, so it does _not_ launch > > a 10MB binary. IMO, that alone is worth a whole new command :-) > > That's a good point - I'd not thought of that. > > Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:48:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11798 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:48:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11732 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:48:00 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03842; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:47:54 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA12728; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980420014752.64507@follo.net> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:52 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). References: <278.893028280@time.cdrom.com> <199804192335.QAA01708@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804192335.QAA01708@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 04:35:26PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 04:35:26PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > I missed something . gozilla issues a remote protocol to what? netscape > If so then you are running netscape. You're not running two copies of netscape. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:54:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13359 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13279 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:53:46 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03402; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:53:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804192353.QAA03402@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:52 +0200." <19980420014752.64507@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:53:39 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thats good. My mail reader, exmh, has the same capability and in that it uses netscape's remote protocol to display http pointers. If I get a mail message with an http pointer all I do is click on the URL and it launches netscape if it is not running otherwise the running netscape displays the URL. Cheers, Amancio > On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 04:35:26PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I missed something . gozilla issues a remote protocol to what? netscape > > If so then you are running netscape. > > You're not running two copies of netscape. > > Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 16:56:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13577; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:56:01 GMT (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00499; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Eivind Eklund , Satoshi Asami , shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:35:26 PDT." <199804192335.QAA01708@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:55:55 -0700 Message-ID: <495.893030155@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG No, it means you don't need to launch it *again* when you want to send a command to the netscape that's already there. In other words, it goes like this: Is Netscape already running? No --> Start netscape on URL | Yes | Send message to running netscape saying "load URL ..." In my shell functions, I use stuff like this: function url { netscape -remote "openURL($*)" } Which invokes another copy of netscape long enough to send the already fully-instantiated netscape a message. On my P6, it's so quick that I don't notice the overhead, but I can see how that might not be true for everyone and a command which *just* sends the protocol without invoking an entire copy of netscape to do it would probably be a win. Jordan > I missed something . gozilla issues a remote protocol to what? netscape > If so then you are running netscape. > > Amancio > > > > It runs the mozilla remote protocol, at least, so it does _not_ launch > > > a 10MB binary. IMO, that alone is worth a whole new command :-) > > > > That's a good point - I'd not thought of that. > > > > Jordan > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 19:04:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07398 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA07392 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:04:37 GMT (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA24528; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:03:38 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:03:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Handy To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PR# kern/2732 Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In pursuit of cleaning out the mighty list of PR's, I was just looking down through the list as I too attempt to avoid working on my thesis. Found one! kern/2732, 'mcopy 3.0 causes kernel hang'. Dated over a year ago, 14 Feb 1997. Mtools has been updated from 3.0 to 3.8, and mtools seems to work (as least it works here), so maybe this is one that can be closed? Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 19:40:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wafu.netgate.net (wafu.netgate.net [204.145.147.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA16160 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:40:15 GMT (envelope-from shigio@wafu.netgate.net) Message-Id: <199804200240.CAA16160@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 8955 invoked from network); 19 Apr 1998 18:42:42 -0000 Received: from ins21.tama-ap3.dti.ne.jp (HELO choota.signet.or.jp) (203.181.67.21) by wafu.netgate.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1998 18:42:42 -0000 Received: from choota.signet.or.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by choota.signet.or.jp (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id LAA01992; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:39:31 +0900 (JST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Amancio Hasty , Eivind Eklund , Satoshi Asami , shigio@wafu.netgate.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:55:55 MST." <495.893030155@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:39:31 +0900 From: Shigio Yamaguchi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In my shell functions, I use stuff like this: > function url { netscape -remote "openURL($*)" } Which invokes > another copy of netscape long enough to send the already > fully-instantiated netscape a message. On my P6, it's so quick that I > don't notice the overhead, but I can see how that might not be true > for everyone and a command which *just* sends the protocol without > invoking an entire copy of netscape to do it would probably be a win. > > Jordan How about using 'netscape-remote' command? It is a subset version of 'netscape' which just talk the protocol. The source code of netscape-remote is freely available at: http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/remote.c http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/vroot.h (and found at netscape5.0/ns/cmd/xfe too. But license is different.) 'netscape-remote -remote ...' is equivalent to 'netscape -remote ...' and smaller than 'netscape' like this. -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 10743808 Nov 7 14:01 /usr/local/bin/netscape -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 16384 Apr 13 10:26 /usr/X11R6/bin/netscape-remote With 'netscape-remote', your script would be if we have netscape-remote then com=netscape-remote else com=netscape endif invokes "$com -remote openURL()" if (netscape not running) invokes "netscape " How about packing 'netscape-remote' command into netscape communicator package as a part of it? -- Shigio Yamaguchi (Freelance programmer) Mail: shigio@wafu.netgate.net, WWW: http://wafu.netgate.net/tama/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 19:44:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17577 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles224.castles.com [208.214.165.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17449 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:44:23 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03539; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804200241.TAA03539@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:47:52 +0200." <19980420014752.64507@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:41:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 04:35:26PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I missed something . gozilla issues a remote protocol to what? netscape > > If so then you are running netscape. > > You're not running two copies of netscape. Of course, if you have one copy of Netscape running already, running a second isn't all that harsh (shared text and data, remember?). At least, not until you do something with it. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 19:45:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17485; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:44:27 GMT (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03657; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Shigio Yamaguchi cc: Amancio Hasty , Eivind Eklund , Satoshi Asami , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:39:31 +0900." <199804200240.CAA16160@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:44:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3654.893040259@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How about using 'netscape-remote' command? > It is a subset version of 'netscape' which just talk the protocol. Hmm! That's quite cute. I'll have to look into it someday when I have some time. :) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 20:09:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23458 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23380 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 03:09:29 GMT (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-84.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.84]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA13650; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:09:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA07987; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:51:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804200151.UAA07987@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jacques Vidrine cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: how much room to ``make release'' In-reply-to: Message from Jacques Vidrine of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:39:44 CDT." <199804191439.JAA04075@cerebus.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:50:59 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jacques Vidrine writes: > > I want to build a custom release. Can someone familiar with the process > guesstimate the amount of diskspace I would need to do so? > > /home/ncvs (the current repository) is about 443 Mb. > > How much room will I need for /usr/src, /usr/obj, and ${CHROOTDIR}? (/usr/src/ > release/Makefile says "at least 600MB" for ${CHROOTDIR}, but I'm afraid the > comment might be dated.) I have RELENG_2_2 with des and kerberos checked out in my /usr/src: # du -sk /usr/src 159195 /usr/src Just did a "make release" last night (haven't tried it yet): # history | grep "make release" 156 make release CHROOTDIR=/r/usr2/release BUILDNAME=2.2.6-dmk RELEASETAG=RELENG_2_2 CVSROOT=/home/ncvs 162 history | grep "make release" Looks like 600MB is a bit lean: # du -sk /r/usr2/release 693149 /r/usr2/release No telling if it used more for temp files. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 21:24:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA12311 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:24:30 GMT (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id EAA13530; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:45:27 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804200245.EAA13530@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Introducing gozilla(1). To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:45:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: eivind@yes.no, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804200241.TAA03539@antipodes.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Apr 19, 98 07:41:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Of course, if you have one copy of Netscape running already, running a > second isn't all that harsh (shared text and data, remember?). At with the size of these beasts one might even start to worry about the size of page tables :) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 22:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from loki.iss.net (loki.iss.net [208.21.0.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA01415 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:25:33 GMT (envelope-from rmooney@iss.net) Received: from arden.iss.net (rmooney@arden.iss.net [208.21.0.8]) by loki.iss.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07356 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:24:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:24:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Mooney Reply-To: Robert Mooney To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ATAPI CDROM enhancements.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy. I'm curious to find out if there are any plans to add CDDA support to the IDE CDROM drivers... ? I'm using 2.2.6-RELEASE with a CDDA capable MITSUMI FX240S (IDE). I've managed to add the device calls as specified in the SFF-8020 document to support CDDA, and unfortunately haven't had much success. It seems the call returns (READ CD - SFF-8020r2.6), but leaves the resulting buffer empty. Upon further investigation, I noticed the capabilities returned by the mode sense seem incorrect (I dumped the device information using ATAINF under Windows 95 - the FreeBSD wcd_describe() isn't accurate)... is there a known problem returning buffers in the ATAPI interface? Have I missed something? If anyone's interested, I can send diff output and test code... I haven't seen much discussion about this previously. :) Thanks in advance. - Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 23:13:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10869 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10809 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:13:36 GMT (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01004; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:13:30 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804200613.IAA01004@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATAPI CDROM enhancements.. In-Reply-To: from Robert Mooney at "Apr 20, 98 01:24:09 am" To: rmooney@iss.net Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:13:29 +0200 (MEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Robert Mooney who wrote: > > Howdy. > > I'm curious to find out if there are any plans to add CDDA support to > the IDE CDROM drivers... ? > > I'm using 2.2.6-RELEASE with a CDDA capable MITSUMI FX240S (IDE). > > I've managed to add the device calls as specified in the SFF-8020 > document to support CDDA, and unfortunately haven't had much success. It > seems the call returns (READ CD - SFF-8020r2.6), but leaves the resulting > buffer empty. Upon further investigation, I noticed the capabilities > returned by the mode sense seem incorrect (I dumped the device information > using ATAINF under Windows 95 - the FreeBSD wcd_describe() isn't > accurate)... is there a known problem returning buffers in the ATAPI > interface? Have I missed something? > > If anyone's interested, I can send diff output and test code... I haven't > seen much discussion about this previously. :) Luigi has been playing with this, and have working patches, search the lists for CDDA... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 19 23:21:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12635 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12526 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:21:20 GMT (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08189; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:22:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:22:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: David Greenman cc: Raul Zighelboim , "'David E. Cross'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-Reply-To: <199804182326.QAA20619@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, David Greenman wrote: > > > >Due to a shortage of funds, I had to cut the amount of ram to 1024 MBs > >:-) > > > > nevertheless, were can I find the required patch for the kernel > >? > > A patch is usually only required if you need to support a large number of > TCP connections (and thus needs lots of mbuf clusters/kernel VM). FreeBSD > 2.2.6, -stable, and -current should otherwise work out of the box with 1GB > of RAM. And what with the "kmem_map too small" type errors? (I'm not getting them, I'm just curious, because I remember this was an issue in 2.2.2 days...). BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce buffers - can they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't they??? As it is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines with >= 512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 00:15:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22245 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:15:16 GMT (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00372; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:14:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804200714.CAA00372@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Apr 20, 98 08:22:42 am" To: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:14:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: dg@root.com, rzig@verio.net, dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrzej Bialecki said: > > BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce buffers - can > they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't they??? As it > is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines with >= > 512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... > The bounce buffer problems are simply initialization issues. If other kernel data structures are too big, the bounce buffers are put too far up in the physical address space, and the bounce memory allocated is too big. It shouldn't happen, and should not be a problem in -current any more. We'll have a new "bounce" scheme soon, so that stuff is legacy anyway. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 00:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23882 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA23860; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:25:38 GMT (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA13917; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:47:03 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199804200547.HAA13917@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ATAPI CDROM enhancements.... To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:47:03 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rmooney@iss.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804200613.IAA01004@sos.freebsd.dk> from "Søren Schmidt" at Apr 20, 98 08:13:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In reply to Robert Mooney who wrote: > > I'm curious to find out if there are any plans to add CDDA support to > > the IDE CDROM drivers... ? ... > Luigi has been playing with this, and have working patches, search > the lists for CDDA... and you told that would have looked at them isn't it ? luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 00:32:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25131 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25124 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:32:22 GMT (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12800; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804200730.AAA12800@implode.root.com> To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Raul Zighelboim , "'David E. Cross'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:22:42 +0200." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:30:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> A patch is usually only required if you need to support a large number of >> TCP connections (and thus needs lots of mbuf clusters/kernel VM). FreeBSD >> 2.2.6, -stable, and -current should otherwise work out of the box with 1GB >> of RAM. > >And what with the "kmem_map too small" type errors? (I'm not getting them, >I'm just curious, because I remember this was an issue in 2.2.2 days...). That is cause by the kernel malloc area being too small. The parameter that controls that is VM_KMEM_SIZE; the default is 32MB, and on wcarchive this is set to 96MB - but that may only be possible if the entire kernel virtual address space is increased (which is what the "patch" does that you're talking about). All of these values need to be carefully tuned as a function of the type of load they will be expected to handle. Someone needs to write a book on how to tune everything properly... >BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce buffers - can >they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't they??? As it >is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines with >= >512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... Well, that's interesting since I installed 2.2.6 on a machine with 512MB RAM myself a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty sure that this was also tested by Jordan prior to the release. Are your sure it doesn't install for you with 512MB of RAM? -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 00:42:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26681 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:42:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26675; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:42:41 GMT (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01197; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:42:27 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804200742.JAA01197@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATAPI CDROM enhancements.... In-Reply-To: <199804200547.HAA13917@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Apr 20, 98 07:47:03 am" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:42:27 +0200 (MEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, rmooney@iss.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Luigi Rizzo who wrote: > > In reply to Robert Mooney who wrote: > > > > I'm curious to find out if there are any plans to add CDDA support to > > > the IDE CDROM drivers... ? > ... > > Luigi has been playing with this, and have working patches, search > > the lists for CDDA... > > and you told that would have looked at them isn't it ? ?? You mean I have looked at them ?? Yes I have, and I'm still thinking on how to do it in TNG atapi code... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 01:46:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09630 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:46:00 GMT (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16351; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:47:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:47:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: David Greenman cc: Raul Zighelboim , "'David E. Cross'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-Reply-To: <199804200730.AAA12800@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, David Greenman wrote: > >BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce buffers - can > >they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't they??? As it > >is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines with >= > >512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... > > Well, that's interesting since I installed 2.2.6 on a machine with 512MB > RAM myself a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty sure that this was also > tested by Jordan prior to the release. Are your sure it doesn't install for > you with 512MB of RAM? No :-) I was wrong - this is indeed fixed in 2.2.6. I remembered 2.2.5... Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 02:48:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19373 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 02:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (algae19.verinet.com [199.45.181.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19362; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:48:44 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10086; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 03:48:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 03:48:42 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804200948.DAA10086@const.> To: allenc@verinet.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. Cc: config@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804192133.OAA14057@usr08.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > How do you address an assertion which says dependency on a database > > reduces robustness because of, for instance, database corruption? > > Do you disregard the assertion based on evolutionary necessity > > ('bite the bullet') or do you dispute that there is any significant > > compromise at all? > > I dispute that there is a significant compromise. > > There *is* a potential compromise. Opponents of using a database > design point to partial corruption equalling partial recoverability > in the flat file. > > I would point out to this position that the flat files use the > underlying file system, which has the same semantics as those > that have been proposed for the user space code. > > The assumption here seems to be that you can't build a robust, user > space transactioning system on top of a robust, kernel space > transactioning system. > > It's pretty easy to prove this assumption wrong from a technical > perspective. We can take the example of pwd_mkdb, the program > that synchronizes the passwd/pwd.db files. It has exactly the same > issues to deal with. > > In fact, pwd_mkdb is a rather nifty example, because it shows us > a feature that we can't get anywhere else: schema enforcement. If > the proposed change would render the database inconsistent, the > change is refused. > > The compromise lies in the non-robustness assumption; it not real, > because it's silly to assume that people who *can't* write robust > user space code *can* write robust kernel space code. It's pretty > much binary: they can or the can't, and the user/kernel qualification > is irrelevant. > I meant the question in regard to database integrity as opposed to schema data consistency. My ambiguity. My own experience with SQL database systems leads me to agree with you. A robust file system supporting a proven transaction engine makes for very solid system, even in the face of severe conditions such as power failure or inadequate resources. A database system also presents good opportunities for safeguards, such as replication and remote fail-over. The paranoid can make use of the configuration portal file system (configfs?) to squirrel away whatever they value most. :) > > > Does a configuration database imply a client/server design and, > > therefore, a daemon to implement the server, or do you expect that > > a static/shared library would allow the client direct access? The > > former provides for a very thin client and powerful concurrency > > control (such as signaling registered clients when the hostname > > changes.) The latter has the appeal of not requiring an daemon > > which would be tough to support in minimalist applications. Both > > perhaps? > > I would prefer the client/server design. > > This simplifies the local database access by making it the same as > the remote database access. I was thinking smaller because my interest in this is motivated by the need for a database which is up-gradable via automation, and to provide an abstraction layer against which multiple user interface tools could be authored. By themselves, these goals don't benefit much from a true transaction engine. As Mike described with his Romeo and Juliet model, client/server design is called for, but the minimalist in me notes that a server in this case does not have to be an actual daemon. Clearly there are goals beyond these that do benefit from a transaction engine and I agree that this is best. > If you have followed the SMBFS discussions in the past, the rest > can be very effectively handled through a credential management > interface attached to the login session. > > The most convenient place to put this seems, to me, to be in a UNIX > session manager. All credential requests from the kernel to a process > would be indirected through the session manager process, which could > choose to answer the requests on the user's behalf. Does anything similar to this currently exist that could be exploited for this need? I see your model is correct, but it is also a rather large cathedral. I agree (as you point out below) it is not required initially. > This leads to three models: > > 1) User query, where the session manager butts in and asks the > user for the credential. This is best suited to X and to > the local console, and such other devices as could refresh > the screen transparently without the application having to > know the query has taken place. > > 2) Operation time query. For example, the mount system call > could return ENEEDAUTH, and the mount command could, if > isatty(fileno(stdout)) was true, interrogate the user for > a password. > > 3) Preload, where the credential information is preloaded by > the user before the operation is attempted. This is less > useful interactively, but would allow a "password cache" > type facility. I envision something like a line mode 'registry' editor (configsh?) which would allow appropriate access to go unchallenged after authentication. In this case, 'Preload' would be very useful interactively, as the operator moved among domains in the hierarchy. The session manager would attempt to answer each challenge on behalf of configsh as the operator performed administration tasks. > It wouldn't be necessary to require a session manager initially; one > is only required when you start trying to do tricky stuff that relies > on you already having the associated infrastructure. Even if it only provides a simple security mechanism, it would probably be best if it existed from the start. > I personally dislike the idea of splitting administrative control > into functional domains (in that direction lies SCO ODT and UNIX ES), > but I agree that it shouldn't be architected against, in case someone > else wants to implement it for some strange reason. Somehow, all the domains eventually aggregate onto one person anyhow, whatever the strange reason. :) Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 04:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA03341 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.coffee.ru (root@cofee.wave.ras.ru [194.85.104.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02596 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:19:42 GMT (envelope-from pvl@cofee.wave.ras.ru) Received: from programmer120.coffee.ru ([195.133.121.6]) by gate.coffee.ru (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01911 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:06:12 +0400 Message-Id: <199804201006.OAA01911@gate.coffee.ru> From: "Bolotov Pavel" To: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:16:06 +0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Sir, I would like to use FreeBSD as router. Router works for TCP/IP well, but it dosn't allow IPX. I have compiled kernel with IPX support and set in /etc/rc.conf IPXrouted. How Can I use IPXrouted for FreeBSD? Bolotov Pavel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 04:40:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06161 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06146 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:40:33 GMT (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28108; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:40:26 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980420144025.A28056@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:40:26 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ethernet Frames in -current Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Are there are any plans to support frames other than 802.3? And if ``yes'', will it be possible to use different frames at once? -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 05:01:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08996 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:00:57 GMT (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id OAA28137; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:00:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:00:54 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PR# kern/2732 References: Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 20 Apr 1998 14:00:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brian Handy's message of "Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:03:38 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Handy writes: > Found one! kern/2732, 'mcopy 3.0 causes kernel hang'. Dated over a year > ago, 14 Feb 1997. Mtools has been updated from 3.0 to 3.8, and mtools > seems to work (as least it works here), so maybe this is one that can be > closed? As far as I can tell from the recent flooding of freebsd-bugs with state-change messages, phk is already busy going through fossile PRs with a chainsaw. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 06:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15172 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15156 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:05:30 GMT (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA02609 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08348 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id IAA00271 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199804201212.IAA00271@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Sudden SEGVs? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've just started suddenly getting weird SEGV failures on a 2.2.5-RELEASE box that had been running perfectly. I suspect a hardware problem (like, maybe some memory has gone bad.) But, I thought it worthwhile to check here, as I've heard stories of interesting VM issues in 2.2.5-RELEASE (likely fixed in 2.2.6.) This machine has been running fairly well for quite some time... to suddenly demonstrate a software problem would be unlikely, but not unheard off... Anyway, what happens is that suddenly, all programs simply get segmentation violations... everything that was running continues to run; but any new program blows up. The machine is nowhere near loaded and I'm nowhere near out of processes, file descriptors, etc.... A reboot totally solves things. Here are my questions: 1) Does this sound like a familiar problem? (either VM or exec())? 2) If it's familiar, I'm guessing an upgrade to 2.2.6 is in order... right? 3) If it's not familiar - has anyone got an idea? [remember the machine only has problems with starting programs, it doesn't spontaneously reboot, or anything...] Here's the particulars: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE on a Pentium-mmx 200 mhz, 32 meg of ram, Matrox Millenium II, ne2000, aha2940... - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 07:26:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29328 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (allenc@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29232; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:25:49 GMT (envelope-from allenc@bamboo.verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) id IAA01654; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:46 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:25:46 -0600 From: Allen Campbell Message-Id: <199804201425.IAA01654@bamboo.verinet.com> To: allenc@verinet.com, allenc@verinet.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 07:51:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05285 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05184 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:50:43 GMT (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA10746; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:48:24 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199804201448.QAA10746@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199804201006.OAA01911@gate.coffee.ru> from Bolotov Pavel at "Apr 20, 98 03:16:06 pm" To: pvl@cofee.wave.ras.ru (Bolotov Pavel) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:48:24 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Dear Sir, > > I would like to use FreeBSD as router. > Router works for TCP/IP well, > but it dosn't allow IPX. > I have compiled kernel with IPX support and > set in /etc/rc.conf IPXrouted. > > How Can I use IPXrouted for FreeBSD? Just like IP, IPX also need to have the interfaces configured. You need to know what network numbers are used on your networks and then put it in your rc.conf file. Something like this should do it: ----------- network_interfaces="ed0 ed1" ifconfig_ed0_ipx="ipx 0x123" ifconfig_ed1_ipx="ipx 0x456" ipxgateway_enable="YES" ipxrouted_enable="YES" ipxrouted_flags="" ----------- This question had been asked a few times. Look in the archives on www.freebsd.org for more information. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 08:12:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kaori.communique.net (kaori.communique.net [204.27.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10879 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:12:13 GMT (envelope-from rzig@verio.net) Received: by kaori.communique.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:11:27 -0500 Message-ID: From: Raul Zighelboim To: "'Andrzej Bialecki'" , David Greenman Cc: "'David E. Cross'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: 1 Gbyte of ram Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:11:25 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just retested. The floppy does indeed install 2.2.6 with 512 megs, it does not install with 786432K. When I attempted to install with all the ram and failed, I went down to 256 megs to install. ================================================== Raul Zighelboim rzig@verio.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrzej Bialecki [SMTP:abial@nask.pl] > Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 3:47 AM > To: David Greenman > Cc: Raul Zighelboim; 'David E. Cross'; 'hackers@freebsd.org' > Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram > > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, David Greenman wrote: > > > >BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce > buffers - can > > >they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't > they??? As it > > >is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines > with >= > > >512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... > > > > Well, that's interesting since I installed 2.2.6 on a machine > with 512MB > > RAM myself a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty sure that this was > also > > tested by Jordan prior to the release. Are your sure it doesn't > install for > > you with 512MB of RAM? > > No :-) I was wrong - this is indeed fixed in 2.2.6. I remembered > 2.2.5... > > Andrzej Bialecki > > --------------------+------------------------------------------------- > -------- > abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { > fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to > fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal > opinion. > --------------------+------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 08:47:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17008 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16731 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:45:35 GMT (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04665; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ethernet Frames in -current In-Reply-To: <19980420144025.A28056@ucb.crimea.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > Are there are any plans to support frames other than 802.3? > And if ``yes'', will it be possible to use different frames > at once? Yes, and yes. This is something we will deal with once we have basic token-ring support working. (Adding support involves resolving some LLC issues and getting rid of duplicate code.) /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 09:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28855 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28765 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:22:47 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA19584 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019580; Mon Apr 20 09:21:58 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22948 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804201621.JAA22948@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Discussion : Using DHCP to obtain configuration. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: sfarrell+lists@farrell.org >Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:30:44 -0500 >Can't some kind of duality be established that gets the best of both >worlds? Use nsswitch.conf file that call tell it to e.g., first look >in the database and then in files for all information. Additionally, >some provision is made for the new system to auto-generate required >files in /etc? This sounds as if it would be a bit messy to implement... but as a systems administrator (who administers different kinds of systems), I would certainly prefer something like this to being forced to use something unique to FreeBSD (for either changing things or finding out how an existing system I've never seen before is configured so I can put out a fire...). >Oh.. and while I'm dreaming, how about using portalfs or similar as >such: mount /etc with portalfs and have a translator present all of >the data from the database in traditional format. So vi /etc/rc.conf, >e.g., would just work, even though you'd actually be read/writing >directly to the database (a little like vipw, but with more magic). >Similarly this mechanism would maintain a backup of /etc in files as >mentioned in the previous paragraph. Actually, there's some functionality I very much miss with vipw (that I have with my updates of, say the "group" file on the NIS master): Tracking changes with RCS. I routinely use RCS to track changes to all kinds of things (except passwd; it's subject to various changes that I don't initite, such as folks changing their passwords), and I find it a useful bit of documentation. On the other hand, I understand how that might be less-well-received by some folks.... :-) david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 10:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21467 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ext-ns4.baynetworks.com [192.32.253.7] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21245 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:45:04 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM ([141.251.211.49]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05771 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25490 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:43:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA01670; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:44:06 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23322; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:44:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804201744.NAA23322@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:44:02 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Especially for the CE56? Also, will PAO be updated for 2.2.6? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 10:49:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21900 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:49:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ext-ns3.baynetworks.com [192.32.253.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21870 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:49:11 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM ([141.251.211.49]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16559 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25561 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:47:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA02064; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:48:27 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23356; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:48:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804201748.NAA23356@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM Subject: Sendmail error messages...caused by limits? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:48:26 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I get these: Apr 14 11:55:29 tuva sendmail[22717]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: putoutmsg (NO-HOST): error on output channel sending "451 fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor": Input/output error Apr 14 11:55:29 tuva sendmail[22717]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor Apr 14 11:55:55 tuva sendmail[22717]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 2 not open: Bad file descriptor Apr 14 11:56:32 tuva sendmail[22790]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: putoutmsg (NO-HOST): error on output channel sending "451 fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor": Input/output error Apr 14 11:56:32 tuva sendmail[22790]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor Apr 14 11:56:39 tuva sendmail[22790]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 2 not open: Bad file descriptor I am beginning to suspect that this is because I placed myself in the "root" login group and when I do hefty compiles I somehow gobble up resources that sendmail needs. I say this because these messages seem to correlate in time with big builds. Has anyone come up with a reasonable set of stuff to go into login.conf that will support the needs of "power-developers" but not lead to inadvertent denial-of-service attacks? ;-) (Assuming my assumption is correct). -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 10:50:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22220 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:50:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21914; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:49:24 GMT (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id TAA02205; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:49:11 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:46:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Mark Willey , Nick Hibma Subject: FreeBSD USB project, help requested Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The first few steps have been taken in creating a USB device driver stack. First of all, I would like to know if anyone else, beside Mark Willey and me, has also taken on the task of implementing USB support for (Free-)BSD. Second, I would like to hear from people willing to do some testing on the existing software. What has been done: x Implementation of Loadable Kernel Module + 30 lines of PCI driver. x Support for 82371AB chip (also called PIIX4) x UHCI driver (lowest level) x VHUB on top of UHCI, emulates real hub function on host controller x Enumeration of hubs (works great for VHUB :-) x Simple control transfers on the USB bus, based on very simple scheduling, making it possible to do control transfers with real functions. x This resulted in about 5000+ lines of code (documented in C :) What will be done in the near future: x Proper scheduling in UHCI driver with proper retries, interrupt usage through IntOnCompletion, IntOnShortPacket, IntOnError, etc. and implementation of blocking/non-blocking read and write calls rom the USB stack. x Support for 82371Sx chip (also called PIIX/PIIX3) or at least for the version that has USB support. x Support for Isochroneous transfers x Setup of proper interface to applications using USB devices. What we need: x Someone who spends an hour or two getting the snapshot ready for other people to download and try (with a README file telling them what parts of the kernel to patch and how to determine what they have) x People to install the snapshot, run it and send the output of the screen to me. x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing bits and pieces: x Scheduling of UHCI transfers x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets x Support for ISA/EISA/etc. implementations of UHCI x Implementation of device drivers for Interrupt transfer driven devices Everything is rough on the edges and large chunks are missing (like power management support, Suspend/Resume and probably does behave badly on other people's hardware. But without other people's help we won't get there. URL (snapshots): http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl Hope to hear from you. Nick Hibma FreeBSD USB driver development To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:05:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26245 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA26096 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:04:30 GMT (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yRKUL-0006Bf-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:36:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail error messages...caused by limits? In-Reply-To: <199804201748.NAA23356@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Robert Withrow wrote: > I am beginning to suspect that this is because I placed myself in the > "root" login group and when I do hefty compiles I somehow gobble up > resources that sendmail needs. I say this because these messages seem > to correlate in time with big builds. Do a "pstat -T" to find out. I find this doubtful, unless you have a really low MAXUSERS setting. A default GENERIC has thousands of descriptors. > Has anyone come up with a reasonable set of stuff to go into login.conf > that will support the needs of "power-developers" but not lead to > inadvertent denial-of-service attacks? ;-) login.conf can not increase the maximum limits. It just limits how much of the available resources you can use. If you are indeed using up all the resources, you just need to get more before even worrying about login.conf > (Assuming my assumption is correct). > > -- > Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) > BWithrow@BayNetworks.com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kaori.communique.net (kaori.communique.net [204.27.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26367 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:06:19 GMT (envelope-from rzig@verio.net) Received: by kaori.communique.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: From: Raul Zighelboim To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: kmem_map too small Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:05:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello there..... How do you prevent thius from happening under 2.2-stable as of yesterday ? c: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small syncing disks... panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Rebooting... Thanks. ================================================== Raul Zighelboim rzig@verio.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:12:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27851 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kaori.communique.net (kaori.communique.net [204.27.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27580 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:11:30 GMT (envelope-from rzig@verio.net) Received: by kaori.communique.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:10:24 -0500 Message-ID: From: Raul Zighelboim To: "'dg@root.com'" , Andrzej Bialecki Cc: "'David E. Cross'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: 1 Gbyte of ram Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:10:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, how do I handle: : kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small syncing disks... panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Rebooting... Thanks. ================================================== Raul Zighelboim rzig@verio.net > -----Original Message----- > From: David Greenman [SMTP:dg@root.com] > Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 2:31 AM > To: Andrzej Bialecki > Cc: Raul Zighelboim; 'David E. Cross'; 'hackers@freebsd.org' > Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram > > >> A patch is usually only required if you need to support a large > number of > >> TCP connections (and thus needs lots of mbuf clusters/kernel VM). > FreeBSD > >> 2.2.6, -stable, and -current should otherwise work out of the box > with 1GB > >> of RAM. > > > >And what with the "kmem_map too small" type errors? (I'm not getting > them, > >I'm just curious, because I remember this was an issue in 2.2.2 > days...). > > That is cause by the kernel malloc area being too small. The > parameter > that controls that is VM_KMEM_SIZE; the default is 32MB, and on > wcarchive > this is set to 96MB - but that may only be possible if the entire > kernel > virtual address space is increased (which is what the "patch" does > that > you're talking about). All of these values need to be carefully tuned > as a function of the type of load they will be expected to handle. > Someone > needs to write a book on how to tune everything properly... > > >BTW. I don't quite understand what's the problem with bounce buffers > - can > >they be made to work out-of-the-box with large RAMs or can't they??? > As it > >is now (and has been for some time), the boot.flp dies on machines > with >= > >512MB RAM, and IMHO this shouldn't happen... > > Well, that's interesting since I installed 2.2.6 on a machine with > 512MB > RAM myself a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty sure that this was > also > tested by Jordan prior to the release. Are your sure it doesn't > install for > you with 512MB of RAM? > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28053 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (ryouko.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.34.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27554; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:11:16 GMT (envelope-from greg@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.7/NAS8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02256; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201810.LAA02256@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov> To: Nick Hibma cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:46:17 +0200." Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:10:46 -0700 From: "Gregory P. Smith" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The first few steps have been taken in creating a USB device driver > stack. First of all, I would like to know if anyone else, beside Mark > Willey and me, has also taken on the task of implementing USB support > for (Free-)BSD. Second, I would like to hear from people willing to do > some testing on the existing software. Yes! I have been working on it. I am working on it as a class project (due later this week). I planned on hooking up with your team after I finished what I needed for my project. As it is now, doing as much as I can on my own is a good learning experience for me even if it isn't all used in the end. > x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing > bits and pieces: > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets I volunteer for OHCI standard and support for the SiS 5598 OHCI chipset (gee, can you guess what my motherboard has :). > Nick Hibma > FreeBSD USB driver development I look forward to working with you.. Greg Smith To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:18:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29212; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:17:11 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01068; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201813.LAA01068@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nick Hibma cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:46:17 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:13:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ah. I wish you'd mentioned you were working on this a while back, or if you did, I wish I'd heard about it! There is a forum for USB developers that's working towards a unified API for USB device drivers, and I think your input would have been greatly appreciated. > The first few steps have been taken in creating a USB device driver > stack. First of all, I would like to know if anyone else, beside Mark > Willey and me, has also taken on the task of implementing USB support > for (Free-)BSD. Second, I would like to hear from people willing to do > some testing on the existing software. I have written some low-level hardware-independent OHCI primitives, enough to probe and initialise the hardware, as well as some basic resource control modules along the lines of the OHCI documents. > What has been done: > > x Implementation of Loadable Kernel Module + 30 lines of PCI driver. > x Support for 82371AB chip (also called PIIX4) Do you only explicitly support this device, or do you support all UHCI implementations? > x UHCI driver (lowest level) > x VHUB on top of UHCI, emulates real hub function on host controller > x Enumeration of hubs (works great for VHUB :-) > x Simple control transfers on the USB bus, based on very > simple scheduling, making it possible to do control transfers with > real functions. > x This resulted in about 5000+ lines of code (documented in C :) This sounds like almost enough for keyboards and mice, and other simple devices. > What will be done in the near future: > > x Proper scheduling in UHCI driver with proper retries, interrupt usage > through IntOnCompletion, IntOnShortPacket, IntOnError, etc. and > implementation of blocking/non-blocking read and write calls rom > the USB stack. > x Support for 82371Sx chip (also called PIIX/PIIX3) or at least for > the version that has USB support. > x Support for Isochroneous transfers > x Setup of proper interface to applications using USB devices. ie. just about everything else. 8) > What we need: > > x Someone who spends an hour or two getting the snapshot ready for other > people to download and try (with a README file telling them what parts > of the kernel to patch and how to determine what they have) You really need to do that. 8) > x People to install the snapshot, run it and send the output of the > screen to me. Gladly, just as soon as I get my hands on some USB peripherals! > x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing > bits and pieces: > x Scheduling of UHCI transfers > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets You should stick to the register interfaces as documented in the [OU]HCI standards - this will let you work on any compliant chipset, modulo quirks. > x Support for ISA/EISA/etc. implementations of UHCI Do any of these exist in a documented form? > Hope to hear from you. Oh, you will! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:22:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00536; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:20:46 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01099; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201817.LAA01099@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Gregory P. Smith" cc: Nick Hibma , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:10:46 PDT." <199804201810.LAA02256@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:17:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing > > bits and pieces: > > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets > > I volunteer for OHCI standard and support for the SiS 5598 OHCI chipset > (gee, can you guess what my motherboard has :). Get the OHCI standard and work from that. (Which is what I have done for my unknown Toshiba chipset.) The whole idea behind OHCI is that you don't have to know what sort of chipset you have, and we shouldn't care at all. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02269; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:25:06 GMT (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id UAA02679; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:24:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:21:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mike Smith cc: "Gregory P. Smith" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-Reply-To: <199804201817.LAA01099@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing > > > bits and pieces: > > > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > > > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets > > > > I volunteer for OHCI standard and support for the SiS 5598 OHCI chipset > > (gee, can you guess what my motherboard has :). > > Get the OHCI standard and work from that. (Which is what I have done > for my unknown Toshiba chipset.) The whole idea behind OHCI is that > you don't have to know what sort of chipset you have, and we shouldn't > care at all. Same for UHCI spec. Be aware of the fact though that without support for separate chipsets you will not be able to figure out the way to do it according to the specs. The final result should be according to [OU]HCI spec and chipset independent, I agree, but for the moment we do not have the knowledge nor the base to claim that it is chipset independent. Nick STA-ISIS, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 11:26:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02777 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (ryouko.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.34.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02551 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:25:49 GMT (envelope-from greg@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ryouko.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.7/NAS8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02382; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201825.LAA02382@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov> To: Mike Smith cc: Nick Hibma , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:17:07 PDT." <199804201817.LAA01099@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:25:16 -0700 From: "Gregory P. Smith" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > > > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets > > > > I volunteer for OHCI standard and support for the SiS 5598 OHCI chipset > > (gee, can you guess what my motherboard has :). > > Get the OHCI standard and work from that. (Which is what I have done > for my unknown Toshiba chipset.) The whole idea behind OHCI is that > you don't have to know what sort of chipset you have, and we shouldn't > care at all. That's what I gathered from my USB book and the SiS 5598 specs. I do have one question about the 5598 and OHCI since I don't have the raw OHCI specs yet (if you have a URL handy it'd be appreciated). The 5598 has 4 registers starting at offset 100h to control the host controller emulation mode. Are these OCHI or is this 5598 specific? The chipset can apparently emulate a traditional keyboard and mouse interface from USB attached devices without even needing a usb driver, etc. I haven't tested it. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:09:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16158 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16148 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:09:36 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01275; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201905.MAA01275@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Gregory P. Smith" cc: Mike Smith , Nick Hibma , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:25:16 PDT." <199804201825.LAA02382@ryouko.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:05:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Get the OHCI standard and work from that. (Which is what I have done > > for my unknown Toshiba chipset.) The whole idea behind OHCI is that > > you don't have to know what sort of chipset you have, and we shouldn't > > care at all. > > That's what I gathered from my USB book and the SiS 5598 specs. I do > have one question about the 5598 and OHCI since I don't have the raw > OHCI specs yet (if you have a URL handy it'd be appreciated). The Start at http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev; it's buried in there somewhere in Word 7 format, if I remember correctly. If someone with a copy of Acrobat Distiller for Windows was to make a PDF version, we'd be very happy I'm sure. 8) > 5598 has 4 registers starting at offset 100h to control the host > controller emulation mode. Are these OCHI or is this 5598 specific? They're not part of the OHCI specification, no. > The chipset can apparently emulate a traditional keyboard and mouse > interface from USB attached devices without even needing a usb driver, > etc. I haven't tested it. The emulation should be transparent, and configured by the BIOS. I would avoid doing anything with stuff outside the OHCI spec at this point in time (lowest common denominator). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:13:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17288 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:13:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17194; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:12:43 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01295; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804201907.MAA01295@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nick Hibma cc: Mike Smith , "Gregory P. Smith" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:21:57 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:07:47 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > x Programmers interested in taking part in the project by implementing > > > > bits and pieces: > > > > x Implementation of OHCI standard (similar to UHCI) > > > > x Support for other UHCI/OHCI chipsets > > > > > > I volunteer for OHCI standard and support for the SiS 5598 OHCI chipset > > > (gee, can you guess what my motherboard has :). > > > > Get the OHCI standard and work from that. (Which is what I have done > > for my unknown Toshiba chipset.) The whole idea behind OHCI is that > > you don't have to know what sort of chipset you have, and we shouldn't > > care at all. > > Same for UHCI spec. Be aware of the fact though that without support for > separate chipsets you will not be able to figure out the way to do it > according to the specs. I'm not sure I follow you here. You can locate [OU]HCI devices by their PCI class/subclass codes without needing to resort to vendor/product IDs. > The final result should be according to [OU]HCI spec and chipset > independent, I agree, but for the moment we do not have the knowledge > nor the base to claim that it is chipset independent. If we cleave to the standard to start with, we'll be better off than trying to separate the standard-compliant parts from the chipset-specific parts later on... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:13:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17276 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:13:03 GMT (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29480; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA01925; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:13:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:13:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199804201913.NAA01925@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Robert Withrow Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: <199804201744.NAA23322@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> References: <199804201744.NAA23322@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Especially for the CE56? Which is what? > Also, will PAO be updated for 2.2.6? The PAO project is completely separate from the FreeBSD project. However, aside from a few minor issues (drivers mostly), the PCCARD support in FreeBSD is getting better than that in PAO. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:38:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24133 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ext-ns3.baynetworks.com [192.32.253.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23992 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:38:19 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM ([141.251.211.49]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29129; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28448; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:37:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id PAA11139; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:37:39 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05342; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:37:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804201937.PAA05342@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams cc: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: Message from Nate Williams of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:13:00 MDT." <199804201913.NAA01925@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:37:24 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nate@mt.sri.com said: :- Which is what? The ce56 is the the 10/100/56K combo card. :- However, aside from a few minor issues (drivers mostly), the PCCARD :- support in FreeBSD is getting better than that in PAO. And the APM stuff? In 2.2.6? (I'd rather not go to bleeding edge...) Anyway, I'll be glad to do the driver work, if it isn't already being done. I've already gotten the the linux driver guy to put a bsd copyright on his code, and he offered to help me with the driver. Can you offer any tips/pointers for this stuff? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:46:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25771 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:45:56 GMT (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29742; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA02162; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:45:50 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:45:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199804201945.NAA02162@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Robert Withrow Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: <199804201937.PAA05342@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> References: <199804201913.NAA01925@mt.sri.com> <199804201937.PAA05342@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :- Which is what? > > The ce56 is the the 10/100/56K combo card. Combo cards aren't supported in FreeBSD, with/without PAO. Neither are any 100MB cards, although Hosokawa has been threatening to commit a really slow driver for a couple of weeks now. > :- However, aside from a few minor issues (drivers mostly), the PCCARD > :- support in FreeBSD is getting better than that in PAO. > > And the APM stuff? In 2.2.6? (I'd rather not go to bleeding edge...) The APM stuff in FreeBSD is *better* than in PAO, IMHO. It has been that way for a long time. And, recently (in between 2.2.5 and 2.2.6) the APM/PCCARD integration became usable in FreeBSD. However, I just fixed a couple minor bugs this morming and committed the code to -current. I'll merge it into -stable in a few days if no one notes any bugs. > Anyway, I'll be glad to do the driver work, if it isn't already being > done. I've already gotten the the linux driver guy to put a bsd > copyright on his code, and he offered to help me with the driver. Feel free. If you need any help, I'm available to answer questions anytime. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:56:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28533 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:55:31 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM ([141.251.211.49]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23748; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28679; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:53:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id PAA12852; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:53:43 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05475; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:53:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804201953.PAA05475@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Nate Williams cc: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: Message from Nate Williams of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:45:50 MDT." <199804201945.NAA02162@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:53:43 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nate@mt.sri.com said: :- Combo cards aren't supported in FreeBSD, with/without PAO. Is that because of a fundamental design problem or limitation, or just because no one has done it? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 12:59:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:59:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29236 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:58:09 GMT (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA29833; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA02273; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:58:02 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:58:02 -0600 Message-Id: <199804201958.NAA02273@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Robert Withrow Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: <199804201953.PAA05475@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> References: <199804201945.NAA02162@mt.sri.com> <199804201953.PAA05475@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :- Combo cards aren't supported in FreeBSD, with/without PAO. > > Is that because of a fundamental design problem or limitation, > or just because no one has done it? Yes, and yes. However, Jon Bresler sent me some patches when I was in Tokyo that I haven't had a chance to look at. Ask him for them. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 13:33:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09326 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:32:50 GMT (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA25015; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:35:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:35:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Raul Zighelboim cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: kmem_map too small In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Raul Zighelboim wrote: > > Hello there..... How do you prevent thius from happening under > 2.2-stable as of yesterday ? > > c: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small > > syncing disks... panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small > Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort > Rebooting... 1. Edit file /sys/i386/include/vmparam.h. Somewhere near the end you'll find the #define VM_KMEM_SIZE. Multiply the define by two. 2. Go to /usr/src/release/floppies/boot and make boot floppy (I'm pretty sure you'll have to tweak something on a 2.2.x system... :-( ) If nothing comes out of it, grab the file: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/cam-boot.tgz This was prepared to make use of CAM support, but this kernel has no bounce buffers and increased kmem_map, so you should be ok. Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 13:41:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10801 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:40:14 GMT (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Mon Apr 20 16:36 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id QAA20726 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:39:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Symbios docs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:39:44 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm trying to locate Stefan Esser whose e-mail address in ncr.c seems to be outdated, but any advice from anyone is welcome. :-) Stefan told me some time ago that there does exist some manual describing the registers of Symbios SCSI card. But when I recently tried to obtain this manual from Symbios, they told me that all they have is the SCRIPTS manual that describes the registers very sparsely (and I already have it). May be someone has some additional information about the registers manual, like exact name or order number ? Thanks! Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 14:03:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:03:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17668 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:02:44 GMT (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18763; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804202101.OAA18763@implode.root.com> To: Raul Zighelboim cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: kmem_map too small In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:05:22 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:01:19 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Hello there..... How do you prevent thius from happening under >2.2-stable as of yesterday ? > >c: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small I already answered this in my other message (HINT: VM_KMEM_SIZE must be increased). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 14:44:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29564 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com ([128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29291 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:43:16 GMT (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA00392 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:48:43 -0400 Received: from kenh-1 (khansen.cc.bellcore.com) by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA02193; Mon, 20 Apr 98 17:42:14 EDT Message-Id: <353BC1D1.2AD2@njcc.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:44:49 -0400 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? (sort of...) References: <199804201744.NAA23322@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> <199804201913.NAA01925@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am close to instaling NetBSD on a "palmtop" (Toshiba Libretto) and I was told that I should use the PAO (distribution?) software, but based on what I infer from the following, it seems that the differences between R2.2.6 and PAO are minimal - is that true? I am concerned about typical laptop things (power, limited display, etc) - is R2.2.6 a reasonable relase for such a platform? I apologize if this is the wrong forum, but it was Nates noote that prompted the question... Thanks, Ken khansen@njcc.com Nate Williams wrote: > > > Especially for the CE56? > > Which is what? > > > Also, will PAO be updated for 2.2.6? > > The PAO project is completely separate from the FreeBSD project. > > However, aside from a few minor issues (drivers mostly), the PCCARD > support in FreeBSD is getting better than that in PAO. > > Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 16:17:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21795 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ptialaska.net (husky.ptialaska.net [198.70.245.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21642 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:15:18 GMT (envelope-from pstern@icefog.polarnet.com) From: pstern@icefog.polarnet.com Received: from icefog.polarnet.com (pstern@icefog.polarnet.com [204.119.24.13]) by ptialaska.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22823 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:15:07 -0800 (AKDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:15:07 -0800 (AKDT) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 16:38:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.listme.com (list@ns.listme.com [205.232.128.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26349 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:38:19 GMT (envelope-from list@listme.com) From: list@listme.com Received: (from list@localhost) by rover.listme.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31276; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:40:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:40:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199804202340.TAA31276@rover.listme.com> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Reply-To: list@listme.com Subject: OK to send e-mail? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK to send an e-mail to hackers@freefall.cdrom.com? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 16:43:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27274 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:41:54 GMT (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA01512; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA03302; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:41:45 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:41:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199804202341.RAA03302@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: khansen@njcc.com Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? (sort of...) In-Reply-To: <353BC1D1.2AD2@njcc.com> References: <199804201744.NAA23322@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> <199804201913.NAA01925@mt.sri.com> <353BC1D1.2AD2@njcc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am close to instaling NetBSD on a "palmtop" (Toshiba > Libretto) and I was told that I should use the PAO (distribution?) > software, but based on what I infer from the following, it seems > that the differences between R2.2.6 and PAO are minimal - is that > true? I have no idea what's in NetBSD. If you meant to say FreeBSD, then the differences between 2.2.6 and PAO are not minimal in my eyes, but I'm biased. > I am concerned about typical laptop things (power, limited > display, etc) - is R2.2.6 a reasonable relase for such a platform? I believe Warner Losh uses FreeBSD on them right now, and I had one working for a very short period of time. They seem to work fine under FreeBSD. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 16:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cac.net (ns.cac.net [209.44.14.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28824 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:47:33 GMT (envelope-from baldwin@ns.cac.net) Received: from cac.net.cac.net (tc2-23.cac.net [209.44.14.150]) by ns.cac.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA00132 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:48:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199804202348.TAA00132@ns.cac.net> From: "Denis A. Baldwin" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:48:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: writing a book.. need input In-reply-to: <203801010702.HAA06275@indigo.ie> References: "Eric A. Davis" "Re: how to add new system calls..." (Apr 15, 10:12am) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am writing a book on the electronic underworld. This book includes information, history and a quasi instruction manual to hacking, cracking, phreaking, AMSAT, pirate radio, virii, warez and anything similar. I am looking for contributions, thoughts, ideas or anybody who wouldn't mind just proof reading and offering some constructive critisism. I want as much feedback as possible, including negative. Anyone whom is interested in writing a chapter, or leaving their input, please e-mail me at baldwin@cac.net. Also, I plan on being at Defcon 6 in Vegas July 31st so I may see some of you there. Denis What separates man and beast? Beast is far less cruel... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 17:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13611 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13419 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:55:02 GMT (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA24122; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:55:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980420195502.12679@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:55:02 -0500 From: dannyman To: list@listme.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OK to send e-mail? Mail-Followup-To: list@listme.com, hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org References: <199804202340.TAA31276@rover.listme.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804202340.TAA31276@rover.listme.com>; from list@listme.com on Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 07:40:43PM -0400 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 07:40:43PM -0400, list@listme.com wrote: > OK to send an e-mail to hackers@freefall.cdrom.com? no. -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 18:17:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17802; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199804210116.SAA17802@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Is anyone working on xircom pccard support? In-Reply-To: <199804201958.NAA02273@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Apr 20, 98 01:58:02 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams wrote: > > :- Combo cards aren't supported in FreeBSD, with/without PAO. > > > > Is that because of a fundamental design problem or limitation, > > or just because no one has done it? > > Yes, and yes. However, Jon Bresler sent me some patches when I was in > Tokyo that I haven't had a chance to look at. Ask him for them. :) the patches dont "do" combo cards. they let me get the network half of a 3com network/modem recognized and "configured". i say "configured" because there is an interrupt problem. i dont get any! epwatchdog fires and looks at the card but no interrupts, even if i request an interrupt upon completion of each transmitted packet. i can see the packets hit the wire. and once enough pings have been sent, i get a bunch of echo response packets....so once i get interrupts the network half of the card may just work ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 18:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20341 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20330 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:31:03 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25337 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:31:00 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA00825; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:30:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980421033059.33555@follo.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:30:59 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This sounds like a totally screwed up VM system. Now, for kicks, it would be neat to have measurements on how much time it takes to compile the Linux kernel on emulation under FreeBSD compared to on a true Linux. If somebody has a scratchbox with that little memory (and I don't - I've not even got any small enough SIMMs to make one), this'd be a neat experiment to run: 1. Install Linux on scratchbox. 2. Set up kernel sources and configure kernel. 3. tar down entire tree and copy somewhere more permanent. 4. time a Linux kernel compile from the tree on the scratchbox. 5. install FreeBSD on scratchbox. 6. run a compile of the same kernel tree in /compat/linux on the scratchbox. I think we'll come out WAY ahead :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 19:15:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26519 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:14:52 GMT (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id KAA13232; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:06:42 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199804210206.KAA13232@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dannyman cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OK to send e-mail? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:55:02 EST." <19980420195502.12679@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:06:41 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dannyman wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 07:40:43PM -0400, list@listme.com wrote: > > OK to send an e-mail to hackers@freefall.cdrom.com? > > no. Note the following header in your reply to this spam: To: list@listme.com You've successfully added yourself to the 'verified addresses' spam lists. (It is an address gathering spam, I've seen it on a dozen addresses so far.) *NEVER* reply to spam.. Addresses of people who have replied are collected and sold. > -- > // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves > \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm Netplex Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 19:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27462 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:20:43 GMT (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA00395; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:19:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980420211939.37502@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:19:39 -0500 From: dannyman To: Peter Wemm Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OK to send e-mail? Mail-Followup-To: Peter Wemm , hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org References: <19980420195502.12679@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu> <199804210206.KAA13232@spinner.netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804210206.KAA13232@spinner.netplex.com.au>; from Peter Wemm on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:06:41AM +0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:06:41AM +0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > dannyman wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 07:40:43PM -0400, list@listme.com wrote: > > > OK to send an e-mail to hackers@freefall.cdrom.com? > > > > no. > > Note the following header in your reply to this spam: > To: list@listme.com > You've successfully added yourself to the 'verified addresses' spam lists. > (It is an address gathering spam, I've seen it on a dozen addresses so far.) > > *NEVER* reply to spam.. Addresses of people who have replied are > collected and sold. *giggles at self* thanks for the tip. :) -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 20:12:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06337 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:11:50 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26212; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:11:46 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980421131140.04376@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:11:40 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. I've drifted through a couple of times, and I get the impression you lot wouldn't want newbies jumping around in there, and I note that the IrcII port no longer defaults to that server. On the other hand, it might actually be helpful to have a newbies channel nearby you could send people to. It would also be mentioned on the Newbies Resources web page. What are your thoughts on this? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 21:55:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from abby.skypoint.net (abby.skypoint.net [199.86.32.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24402 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:55:37 GMT (envelope-from bruce@zuhause.mn.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by abby.skypoint.net (8.8.7/jl 1.3) with UUCP id XAA11511; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:55:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by zuhause.mn.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA09995; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:52:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:52:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804210452.XAA09995@zuhause.mn.org> From: Bruce Albrecht To: Sue Blake Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? In-Reply-To: <19980421131140.04376@welearn.com.au> References: <19980421131140.04376@welearn.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sue Blake writes: > Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC > channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. > > I've drifted through a couple of times, and I get the impression you lot > wouldn't want newbies jumping around in there, and I note that the IrcII > port no longer defaults to that server. On the other hand, it might actually > be helpful to have a newbies channel nearby you could send people to. It > would also be mentioned on the Newbies Resources web page. > > What are your thoughts on this? Who is going to sit in the #FreeBSD-newbies channel and answer questions? There are a number of #FreeBSD regulars that have limited patience for brain-dead newbies, and so they're not going to be interested in hanging around in #FreeBSD-newbies. We certainly don't need another channel filled with the clueless moaning about how badly FreeBSD sucks and that you can't get any help because nobody knows anything about FreeBSD on the channel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 22:08:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27244 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:08:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles199.castles.com [208.214.165.199]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27230 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:08:05 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02631; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804210144.SAA02631@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:30:59 +0200." <19980421033059.33555@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:44:02 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under > Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This > sounds like a totally screwed up VM system. Wow, that's really ugly. > Now, for kicks, it would be neat to have measurements on how much time > it takes to compile the Linux kernel on emulation under FreeBSD > compared to on a true Linux. If somebody has a scratchbox with that > little memory (and I don't - I've not even got any small enough SIMMs > to make one), this'd be a neat experiment to run: I can arrange that here easily enough. I have to install RH5 tomorrow (again!) to do some emulation-related stuff, so if someone doesn't beat me to it in the next 12 hours, if you can produce some no-brainer instructions I'll do the lework. (Or I can give you an account on the machine and you can do it yourself 8) You don't want something stupid like an ISA IDE disk or something in it now do you? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 20 23:39:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08527 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08519 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 06:39:50 GMT (envelope-from perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07933; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:40:42 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:40:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Bruce Albrecht cc: Sue Blake , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? In-Reply-To: <199804210452.XAA09995@zuhause.mn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #freebsd on EFnet is loaded with newbies, no need for a channel imo. -Alfred On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Bruce Albrecht wrote: > > Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC > > channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. > Who is going to sit in the #FreeBSD-newbies channel and answer questions? > There are a number of #FreeBSD regulars that have limited patience for > brain-dead newbies, and so they're not going to be interested in hanging > around in #FreeBSD-newbies. We certainly don't need another channel filled > with the clueless moaning about how badly FreeBSD sucks and that you can't > get any help because nobody knows anything about FreeBSD on the channel. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 00:29:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:29:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14231; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:29:08 GMT (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA09833; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:28:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:25:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mike Smith cc: "Gregory P. Smith" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Willey Subject: Re: FreeBSD USB project, help requested In-Reply-To: <199804201907.MAA01295@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not sure I follow you here. You can locate [OU]HCI devices by their > PCI class/subclass codes without needing to resort to vendor/product > IDs. > > > The final result should be according to [OU]HCI spec and chipset > > independent, I agree, but for the moment we do not have the knowledge > > nor the base to claim that it is chipset independent. > > If we cleave to the standard to start with, we'll be better off than > trying to separate the standard-compliant parts from the > chipset-specific parts later on... We are talking about the same thing, I think. It's just that I do not want to put the label 'UHCI compliant' on it when I have tested it with only one chip. Second, you need to recognise the chip to be able to apply the quirks: PIIX4: Switch on interrupt, supports power protection, etc. Three, from the code you would be able to derive that PIIX4 is only mentioned in the uhc_pci.c code to print a nice string at boot time. Four, I need alpha testers to see if, working from the UHCI spec and not the chip spec (I only found out last sunday that the PIIX4 supports power protection), I created something which is UHCI compliant. It is just too early to claim that. I am not working at a marketing company like MicroSchoft. Nick STA-ISIS, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 02:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03392 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03371 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:45:11 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA00540 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd000538; Tue Apr 21 02:45:01 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id CAA07315 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804210945.CAA07315@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:45:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number for it. Who can assign one ? Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 05:38:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:38:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29814 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:38:42 GMT (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30708; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:38:40 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01413; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980421083839.E24128@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:38:39 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: eivind@yes.no Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux kernel compiles Mail-Followup-To: eivind@yes.no, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Before I converted to FreeBSD, I ran Linux on a 486DX-33 with 8MB of RAM. Compiling a Linux 2.0 kernel took 4-6 hours depending upon whether or not I had X running at the same time. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to run your experiment, but it does sound interesting. --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 09:17:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04831 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.net-link.net (mail.net-link.net [205.217.6.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04810 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:16:55 GMT (envelope-from wpub1@net-link.net) Received: from ricecake (grxa6-ppp160.triton.net [209.172.2.160]) by mail.net-link.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA10674 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:16:50 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980421122203.0074c288@smtp.net-link.net> X-Sender: wpub1@smtp.net-link.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:22:03 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-Reply-To: <19980418210040.39656@mcs.net> References: <199804190151.SAA23035@implode.root.com> <199804190151.SAA23035@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:00 PM 4/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, Apr 18, 1998 at 06:51:59PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> >Then I do not understand.. I have 3*256 megs on the system, the biios >> >counts them, freebsd 2.2.6 counts them, then panics with 'memory out of >> >range'... neither the install floppy nor the kernel.GENERIC were able to >> >boot with 768megs. >> >> You'll need to be more specific than "memory out of range". It's possible >> that bounce buffers are still killing installs on large machines. So, pull >> out some memory, install FreeBSD, configure/build/install a kernel without >> the BOUNCE_BUFFERS option, and then put the memory back in. >> >> >BTW will a news server qualify as a system with lots of TCP connections >> >and the need of lots of mbufs ? >> >> Probably not. Most large news servers handle on the order of perhaps >> 100-200 TCP connections. When I say "large number", I mean in the thousands. >> >> -DG > >A big web server will though :-) > So, what is considered 'alot' of mbufs? 1024, 2048, 4096??? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 09:27:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06830 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aurora.sol.net (jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06770 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:27:24 GMT (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/SNNS-1.02) id LAA22962 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:27:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199804211627.LAA22962@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Reliable is FreeBSD's middle name. To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:27:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I happened to log in on my core ethernet router this morning, and noticed 11:26AM up 300 days, 16:02, 1 user, load averages: 0.13, 0.06, 0.01 It's too bad that I took it down after a 200 day uptime to stick some more interfaces into it, or it'd be 500. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 09:43:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10152 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10052 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:42:56 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00440; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804211639.JAA00440@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:45:00 PDT." <199804210945.CAA07315@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:39:43 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > for it. Who can assign one ? Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 10:56:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28004 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27975 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:56:54 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA03034; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd003032; Tue Apr 21 10:41:48 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id KAA21218; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804211741.KAA21218@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-Reply-To: <199804211639.JAA00440@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 21, 98 09:39:43 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > > for it. Who can assign one ? > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? Aehm, if I look into the README of CAM, it talks about the Mylex/Buslogic controllers, which are not raid controllers. The DAC-960 is a hardware level raid controller with 1 to 5 SCSI channels (5 only on EISA) with an Intel i960 CPU. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 10:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28487 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:58:27 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00930; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804211754.KAA00930@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:41:39 PDT." <199804211741.KAA21218@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:54:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > > > for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? > > Aehm, if I look into the README of CAM, it talks about the Mylex/Buslogic > controllers, which are not raid controllers. The DAC-960 is a hardware > level raid controller with 1 to 5 SCSI channels (5 only on EISA) with an > Intel i960 CPU. So "no", right? I presume that your driver exports a control interface, hence the need for a major number, correct? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 11:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01279 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:06:52 GMT (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA28963; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:02:42 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199804211802.MAA28963@narnia.plutotech.com> To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199804211639.JAA00440@dingo.cdrom.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199804211639.JAA00440@dingo.cdrom.com> you wrote: >> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number >> for it. Who can assign one ? > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? And which Mylex RAID controllers would that be? The CAM code supports the MultiMaster SCSI cards, not the RAID adapters. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 11:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04713 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04667 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:16:58 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA03349; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd003347; Tue Apr 21 11:16:58 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id LAA22309; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804211816.LAA22309@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-Reply-To: <199804211754.KAA00930@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 21, 98 10:54:07 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > > > > for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? > > > > Aehm, if I look into the README of CAM, it talks about the Mylex/Buslogic > > controllers, which are not raid controllers. The DAC-960 is a hardware > > level raid controller with 1 to 5 SCSI channels (5 only on EISA) with an > > Intel i960 CPU. > > So "no", right? "No" is correct. CAM supports the Buslogic BT-54x, BT-445x, BT-74x, BT-75x, BT-94x and BT-95x, which are now just owned by Mylex. > > I presume that your driver exports a control interface, hence the need > for a major number, correct? The driver gives an interface to the system drives, which are basicly block devices. Additional SCSI devices like tapes and cdrom will be handled via the normal SCSI interface. As far I know Unix, I will need a major number for this, as the system drives itself are not "SCSI" drives from a host computer stand, but block devices. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 11:46:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13146 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA12954 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:45:40 GMT (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA03685 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:45:05 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA01594; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:32:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199804211832.UAA01594@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Symbios docs In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at "Apr 20, 98 04:39:44 pm" To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:32:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote... > Hi! > > I'm trying to locate Stefan Esser whose e-mail address in ncr.c seems > to be outdated, but any advice from anyone is welcome. :-) Doesn't se@freebsd.org work? Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 11:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13511 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13325 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:47:03 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01131; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804211843.LAA01131@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: Ulf Zimmermann , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:54:07 PDT." <199804211754.KAA00930@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:43:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > > > > for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? > > > > Aehm, if I look into the README of CAM, it talks about the Mylex/Buslogic > > controllers, which are not raid controllers. The DAC-960 is a hardware > > level raid controller with 1 to 5 SCSI channels (5 only on EISA) with an > > Intel i960 CPU. > > So "no", right? > > I presume that your driver exports a control interface, hence the need > for a major number, correct? Just to point out that this is of course totally bogus. What's the driver called? I'll do this right away. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 13:31:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15282 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pigstuy ([207.113.85.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15217 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:31:11 GMT (envelope-from spork@cncn.com) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by pigstuy (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02415 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from spork@cncn.com) X-Authentication-Warning: pigstuy: spork owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Spike Gronim X-Sender: spork@pigstuy Reply-To: spork To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New library. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello. I just got "Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment", by W. Richard Stevens. It is a great book, however it requires a special library (libmisc.a) to compile/run the programs in the book. I downloaded the source for said file and got it to compile. I now have a file, /home/spork/apue/libmisc.a, which I need the linker to recognize. How to I get the linker to look for this new file, so I can use the code in it? Please respond directly, as I am not on the list. Thank you. -Spike Gronim spork@cncn.com "Hacker, n: One who hacks real good" --Computer Contradictionary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 14:28:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28269 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:38 GMT (envelope-from rkw@Dataplex.NET) Received: from [208.2.87.6] (user6.dataplex.net [208.2.87.6]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19954; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:27:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:27:18 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Help! Booting a diskless client. Cc: Mike Smith , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've read, and reread, Mike's application notes. Obviously, I'm missing something here. Can someone point out my error? What I really want to do is get a kernel to this machine. mount shows: /dev/sd0s1a on / (NFS exported, local, writes: sync 55568 async 78717)) /dev/sd0s1f on /usr (NFS exported, local, writes: sync 279374 async 261826)) /dev/sd1f on /diskless/swapfiles (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, writes: sync 14 async 1)) /etc/exports shows: /diskless/root -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask 255.255.255.224 /usr -maproot=0 -ro -network 208.2.87.0 -mask 255.255.255.224 /diskless/swapfiles -alldirs -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask 255.255.255.224 ps shows: root 19881 0.0 0.5 468 336 ?? Is 3:56PM 0:00.02 /sbin/mountd -l -r ls shows: /diskless: total 4 drwxrwxr-x 2 root wheel 512 Apr 21 13:05 root drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Apr 21 15:40 swapfiles /diskless/swapfiles: total 2064 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 1048576 Apr 21 14:56 swap.208.2.87.13 syslog shows: Apr 21 15:56:53 shrimp mountd[19881]: mount request succeeded from 208.2.87.13 for /diskless/swapfiles Apr 21 15:56:53 shrimp mountd[19881]: umountall request from 208.2.87.3 from unprivileged port Apr 21 15:57:05 shrimp mountd[19881]: umountall request from 208.2.87.3 from unprivileged port The diskless client gets its info from dhcp. It is assigned IP = 208.2.87.13. It fetches (tftp) this configuration: rootfs 208.2.87.3:/diskless/root swapfs 208.2.87.3:/diskless/swapfiles swapsize 1000 flags scv The configuration parameters shown on its screen match what I intended. Then it proceeds to read the kernel. At the end of that, it stops with "Unable to open swap.208.2.87.13: Not owner" (NB: If I remove the swap. 208.2.87.13 file, I get a different message - (not found). Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 14:31:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29418 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29313; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:31:04 GMT (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19260; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:30:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id WAA00980; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:49:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:49:20 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Stefan Esser Subject: Re: Symbios docs Mail-Followup-To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 04:39:44PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1998-04-20 16:39 -0400, sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: > Hi! > > I'm trying to locate Stefan Esser whose e-mail address in ncr.c seems > to be outdated, but any advice from anyone is welcome. :-) Sorry for the lack of response, the mail address was right, I'm just completely overloaded with work. I'm not able to keep up reading my mail, and have a backlog of nearly 1000 messages, currently ... > Stefan told me some time ago that there does exist some manual > describing > the registers of Symbios SCSI card. But when I recently tried to > obtain this manual from Symbios, they told me that all they have > is the SCRIPTS manual that describes the registers very sparsely > (and I already have it). May be someone has some additional information > about the registers manual, like exact name or order number ? Thanks! You need both the Programming Guide (which does not address the semantics of the configuration registers in necessary detail) and the data book for the chip you are going to use. SYM53C8XX Family PCI-SCSI I/O Processors Programming Guide J10931I / 0294-15MD SYM53C875 PCI-SCSI I/O Processor with UltraSCSI DATA MANUAL REVISION 2.0 T16962I / 0396-15MD (Assuming that you want to use the 875 chip ...) Regards, STefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 14:32:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29425 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:31:53 GMT (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24294; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:30:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Spike Gronim cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New library. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Spike Gronim wrote: > Hello. > > I just got "Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment", by W. > Richard Stevens. It is a great book, however it requires a special library > (libmisc.a) to compile/run the programs in the book. I downloaded the > source for said file and got it to compile. I now have a file, > /home/spork/apue/libmisc.a, which I need the linker to recognize. > > How to I get the linker to look for this new file, so I can use > the code in it? Please respond directly, as I am not on the list. Thank > you. > cc -o yourprog yourprog.c -Lpath_to_libmisc -lmisc > > -Spike Gronim > spork@cncn.com > > > "Hacker, n: One who hacks real good" > --Computer Contradictionary > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 15:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pudv01.ric.pmu.com (207-172-63-5.s5.tnt3.rcm.erols.com [207.172.63.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08832 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:14:01 GMT (envelope-from SimsS@IBM.Net) Received: from Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us ([148.128.70.100]) by pudv01.ric.pmu.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09759 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Steve Sims" To: Subject: RE: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:13:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bd6d72$c0e563c0$64468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For what it's worth, I just a couple of weekends ago built a custom kernel on an 8-meg 486/66 with an ANCIENT WD220 drive (50Mb swap) and the time was 45 minutes. Not much of a datapoint, but there ya go.... ...sjs... -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike Smith Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 9:44 PM To: Eivind Eklund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox > I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under > Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This > sounds like a totally screwed up VM system. Wow, that's really ugly. > Now, for kicks, it would be neat to have measurements on how much time > it takes to compile the Linux kernel on emulation under FreeBSD > compared to on a true Linux. If somebody has a scratchbox with that > little memory (and I don't - I've not even got any small enough SIMMs > to make one), this'd be a neat experiment to run: I can arrange that here easily enough. I have to install RH5 tomorrow (again!) to do some emulation-related stuff, so if someone doesn't beat me to it in the next 12 hours, if you can produce some no-brainer instructions I'll do the lework. (Or I can give you an account on the machine and you can do it yourself 8) You don't want something stupid like an ISA IDE disk or something in it now do you? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 15:45:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13995 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:45:12 GMT (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02885; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804212243.PAA02885@implode.root.com> To: Matthew Hagerty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1 Gbyte of ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:22:03 EDT." <3.0.3.32.19980421122203.0074c288@smtp.net-link.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:43:37 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> >BTW will a news server qualify as a system with lots of TCP connections >>> >and the need of lots of mbufs ? >>> >>> Probably not. Most large news servers handle on the order of perhaps >>> 100-200 TCP connections. When I say "large number", I mean in the >thousands. >>> >>> -DG >> >>A big web server will though :-) >> > >So, what is considered 'alot' of mbufs? 1024, 2048, 4096??? Wcarchive is configured for 50000. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 16:17:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mylanders.com (mylanders.com [206.252.160.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18007 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:16:58 GMT (envelope-from nat@mylanders.com) Received: from localhost (nat@localhost) by mylanders.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA26194 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:29:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:29:39 -0500 (CDT) From: John Frader To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Suggestions on patching kernel src In-Reply-To: <000901bd6d72$c0e563c0$64468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I have a machine running 2.2.1 that I want to apply the recent security patches to(foof, land etc...) but it seems that the patches are for newer src code than is on the machine. I don't want to do a make world incase for some reason something went wrong (the machine is in use and is 4 hours away) and was wondering if it would go ok to cvsup just a new src tree and recompile? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 16:29:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20238 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20232 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:29:56 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA05625; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd005623; Tue Apr 21 16:29:38 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id QAA02329; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804212329.QAA02329@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-Reply-To: <199804211843.LAA01131@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 21, 98 11:43:07 am" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major number > > > > > for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > > > Is this like the Mylex RAID controller(s) that the CAM code supports? > > > > > > Aehm, if I look into the README of CAM, it talks about the Mylex/Buslogic > > > controllers, which are not raid controllers. The DAC-960 is a hardware > > > level raid controller with 1 to 5 SCSI channels (5 only on EISA) with an > > > Intel i960 CPU. > > > > So "no", right? > > > > I presume that your driver exports a control interface, hence the need > > for a major number, correct? > > Just to point out that this is of course totally bogus. What's the > driver called? I'll do this right away. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com I call it currently myx. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 17:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29289 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:23:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29239; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:22:34 GMT (envelope-from rkw@Dataplex.NET) Received: from [208.2.87.6] (user6.dataplex.net [208.2.87.6]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20356; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:22:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:46 -0500 To: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Help! Booting a diskless client. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Digging through the netboot code, I find that I was wrong. The delay where I thought that it was loading the kernel was really just a slow nfs-mount. :-( So, the (current) problem is in my attempt to mount the swap file. It has nothing to do with the rootfs or the kernel. Has anyone else mounted files as fs (the -r option to mountd) on "current" (CVSup'ed on Apr 18th)? At 4:27 PM -0500 4/21/98, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: >I've read, and reread, Mike's application notes. >Obviously, I'm missing something here. >Can someone point out my error? > >What I really want to do is get a kernel to this machine. > >mount shows: >/dev/sd1f on /diskless/swapfiles (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, >writes: sync 14 async 1)) > >/etc/exports shows: >/diskless/swapfiles -alldirs -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask >255.255.255.224 > >ps shows: > >root 19881 0.0 0.5 468 336 ?? Is 3:56PM 0:00.02 /sbin/mountd >-l -r > >ls shows: >/diskless/swapfiles: >total 2064 >-rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 1048576 Apr 21 14:56 swap.208.2.87.13 Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 17:42:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03457 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03442 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:42:01 GMT (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA27995; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:41:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre To: John Frader cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestions on patching kernel src In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, John Frader wrote: > Hello, > > I have a machine running 2.2.1 that I want to apply the recent security > patches to(foof, land etc...) but it seems that the patches are for newer > src code than is on the machine. I don't want to do a make world incase > for some reason something went wrong (the machine is in use and is 4 hours > away) and was wondering if it would go ok to cvsup just a new src tree and > recompile? You should cvsup a new source tree, then make buildworld, and if that goes well you can make installworld. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 19:04:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17950 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:04:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17786 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:04:16 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-23.aei.ca [206.186.204.173]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17083; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D4FFD.3FCEFD92@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:41 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: Bruce Albrecht , Sue Blake , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > #freebsd on EFnet is loaded with newbies, no need for a channel imo. > > -Alfred > > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Bruce Albrecht wrote: > > > Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC > > > channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. > > Who is going to sit in the #FreeBSD-newbies channel and answer questions? > > There are a number of #FreeBSD regulars that have limited patience for > > brain-dead newbies, and so they're not going to be interested in hanging > > around in #FreeBSD-newbies. We certainly don't need another channel filled > > with the clueless moaning about how badly FreeBSD sucks and that you can't > > get any help because nobody knows anything about FreeBSD on the channel. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Well, we will think to what you say. I think than some not absolute brain-dead newbies can help to start. Not very technical question, but more like "how to log" And a corner for newbie. its a community no? What do you think? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 20:03:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27102 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27087 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:03:00 GMT (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19145; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980421200230.38680@micron.mini.net> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:02:30 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: SimsS@IBM.Net Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: <000901bd6d72$c0e563c0$64468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <000901bd6d72$c0e563c0$64468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us>; from Steve Sims on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 06:13:45PM -0400 X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Sims stands accused of saying: > > I can arrange that here easily enough. I have to install RH5 tomorrow > (again!) to do some emulation-related stuff, so if someone doesn't beat > me to it in the next 12 hours, if you can produce some no-brainer > instructions I'll do the lework. (Or I can give you an account on the > machine and you can do it yourself 8) > > You don't want something stupid like an ISA IDE disk or something in it > now do you? My 386DX/40 box had 16M in it for a while, with a single 1.2G IDE, and it took 1:20 or so to compile custom kernels. (2.2.1-R) This is, of course, with a 16-bit multi-I/O card. It's got 32M in it now, and it doesn't really take that much less time: micron:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC# time make all [ ... Irrellevent text deleted ... ] 5101.79 real 3755.47 user 537.05 sys Of course, my custom kernel is much less of a kernel than GENERIC, but still. ... I should mention that this box was not only compiling: a couple people use my machine for email, and one of them logged in and ran pine while compiling (not to mention my own usage). Also, a copy of PennMUSH was running as well, serving a few users : nobody noticed I was compiling code, of course (only a LA of 1.2 or so, no reason why they should). I tell my Linux friends what I do with FreeBSD on a 386. Most of them flat won't beleive me. I have actually had arguments over this in the past, even to the point where I had to open up the case and show someone the processor. -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 20:15:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29029 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from abby.skypoint.net (abby.skypoint.net [199.86.32.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29020 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:15:37 GMT (envelope-from bruce@zuhause.mn.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by abby.skypoint.net (8.8.7/jl 1.3) with UUCP id WAA01642; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:15:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by zuhause.mn.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA13487; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:12:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:12:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804220312.WAA13487@zuhause.mn.org> From: Bruce Albrecht To: Malartre Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Sue Blake , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IRC - #freebsd-newbies invasion? In-Reply-To: <353D4FFD.3FCEFD92@aei.ca> References: <353D4FFD.3FCEFD92@aei.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Malartre writes: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > #freebsd on EFnet is loaded with newbies, no need for a channel imo. > > > > -Alfred > > > > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Bruce Albrecht wrote: > > > > Some newbies are talking about where we should start a #freebsd-newbies IRC > > > > channel, and among other options the FreeBSD IRC server came up. > > > Who is going to sit in the #FreeBSD-newbies channel and answer questions? > > > There are a number of #FreeBSD regulars that have limited patience for > > > brain-dead newbies, and so they're not going to be interested in hanging > > > around in #FreeBSD-newbies. We certainly don't need another channel filled > > > with the clueless moaning about how badly FreeBSD sucks and that you can't > > > get any help because nobody knows anything about FreeBSD on the channel. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > Well, we will think to what you say. > I think than some not absolute brain-dead newbies can help to start. > Not very technical question, but more like "how to log" > And a corner for newbie. > its a community no? I fear that I was a bit harsh in my phrasing, since I don't wish to imply that most newbies are clueless or brain-dead. However, I do have a concern that if there's a #FreeBSD and a #FreeBSD-newbies, then anyone asking things like "How do I boot from an install disk", or "How do I set up PPP", and really needs step-by-step hand-holding, will automatically get shunted over to the #FreeBSD-newbies channel. If most of the people in the channel barely know more than the person asking the question, then it may do more to discourage new users than having only one irc channel with people of all experience levels. If #FreeBSD regulars think that it's a good idea, and are willing to hang around the -newbies channel when they're in the mood to answer questions, then, by all means, start one up. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 20:59:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04348 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:59:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04028 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:56:52 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00327; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220353.UAA00327@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:29:33 PDT." <199804212329.QAA02329@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:53:53 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>>> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major >>>>>> number for it. Who can assign one ? > > I call it currently myx. Ok, you have character major 97. If you plan on exporting a disklike interface but not using 'sd' or 'da', let me know and I'll arrange a block major as well. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 21:06:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05576; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:06:26 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00375; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220403.VAA00375@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Help! Booting a diskless client. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:46 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:03:41 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > At 4:27 PM -0500 4/21/98, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >I've read, and reread, Mike's application notes. > >Obviously, I'm missing something here. > >Can someone point out my error? > > > >What I really want to do is get a kernel to this machine. > > > >mount shows: > > >/dev/sd1f on /diskless/swapfiles (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, > >writes: sync 14 async 1)) > > > >/etc/exports shows: > > >/diskless/swapfiles -alldirs -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask > >255.255.255.224 > > > >ps shows: > > > >root 19881 0.0 0.5 468 336 ?? Is 3:56PM 0:00.02 /sbin/mountd > >-l -r You don't need '-r', the FreeBSD diskless swapper does a mount RPC on the directory and then looks the file up, rather than other systems that just mount the file directly. That shouldn't stop this working though. What's the booting system output for "swap is ..."? Are you using bootp? Did you remember to quote the colons in the swap path? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 21:27:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08466 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08450 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:27:27 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA06929; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd006927; Tue Apr 21 21:27:32 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id VAA11097; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804220427.VAA11097@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-Reply-To: <199804220353.UAA00327@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 21, 98 08:53:53 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>>>>> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major > >>>>>> number for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > I call it currently myx. > > Ok, you have character major 97. If you plan on exporting a disklike > interface but not using 'sd' or 'da', let me know and I'll arrange a > block major as well. Yes I do plan that. > > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 21:27:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08504 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08477 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:27:35 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00457; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220424.VAA00457@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Smith , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Help! Booting a diskless client. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:27:18 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:24:55 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whoops, more data in this message. Saving for context... > I've read, and reread, Mike's application notes. > Obviously, I'm missing something here. > Can someone point out my error? > > What I really want to do is get a kernel to this machine. > > mount shows: > > /dev/sd0s1a on / (NFS exported, local, writes: sync 55568 async 78717)) > /dev/sd0s1f on /usr (NFS exported, local, writes: sync 279374 async 261826)) > /dev/sd1f on /diskless/swapfiles (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, > writes: sync 14 async 1)) > > /etc/exports shows: > > /diskless/root -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask 255.255.255.224 > /usr -maproot=0 -ro -network 208.2.87.0 -mask 255.255.255.224 > /diskless/swapfiles -alldirs -maproot=0 -network 208.2.87.0 -mask > 255.255.255.224 > > ps shows: > > root 19881 0.0 0.5 468 336 ?? Is 3:56PM 0:00.02 /sbin/mountd > -l -r > > ls shows: > > /diskless: > total 4 > drwxrwxr-x 2 root wheel 512 Apr 21 13:05 root > drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Apr 21 15:40 swapfiles > > /diskless/swapfiles: > total 2064 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 1048576 Apr 21 14:56 swap.208.2.87.13 > > syslog shows: > > Apr 21 15:56:53 shrimp mountd[19881]: mount request succeeded from > 208.2.87.13 for /diskless/swapfiles > Apr 21 15:56:53 shrimp mountd[19881]: umountall request from 208.2.87.3 > from unprivileged port > Apr 21 15:57:05 shrimp mountd[19881]: umountall request from 208.2.87.3 > from unprivileged port > > The diskless client gets its info from dhcp. > It is assigned IP = 208.2.87.13. > > Then it proceeds to read the kernel. > At the end of that, it stops with > "Unable to open swap.208.2.87.13: Not owner" > (NB: If I remove the swap. 208.2.87.13 file, I get a different message - > (not found). Ok, this is still netboot that's complaining. It's managed to mount the directory OK, but can't open the file. I suspect that because it can't authenticate itself, it's actually being mapped to "nobody", who can't operate on the swapfile that you've created. Try changing the permissions on it, or chown it to nobody. Please let me know how you go here, so I can amend the notes accordingly. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 21:33:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10108 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:33:27 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00505; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220430.VAA00505@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:27:24 PDT." <199804220427.VAA11097@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:30:41 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >>>>>> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major > > >>>>>> number for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > I call it currently myx. > > > > Ok, you have character major 97. If you plan on exporting a disklike > > interface but not using 'sd' or 'da', let me know and I'll arrange a > > block major as well. > > Yes I do plan that. Do you hope to be able to boot from the Mylex? If so, do you plan to support 2.2 (or non-DEVFS systems in general?) There are some issues regarding the bootability of devices with new major numbers that may make this unattractive. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 21:40:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11084 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11079 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:39:57 GMT (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA06992; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd006987; Tue Apr 21 21:39:55 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id VAA11416; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804220439.VAA11416@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-Reply-To: <199804220430.VAA00505@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 21, 98 09:30:41 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >>>>>> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major > > > >>>>>> number for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > > > I call it currently myx. > > > > > > Ok, you have character major 97. If you plan on exporting a disklike > > > interface but not using 'sd' or 'da', let me know and I'll arrange a > > > block major as well. > > > > Yes I do plan that. > > Do you hope to be able to boot from the Mylex? If so, do you plan to > support 2.2 (or non-DEVFS systems in general?) > > There are some issues regarding the bootability of devices with > new major numbers that may make this unattractive. Currently I do all the work under -current, but I have myself some interest to get it working under 2.2.x, in the case I don't need so long to get it stable, before a 3.0 version will be released. For now, let's say only -current. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 22:12:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15145 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:12:37 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00612; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220509.WAA00612@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for major number for Mylex RAID controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:39:48 PDT." <199804220439.VAA11416@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:09:49 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > >>>>>> I am getting into the phase of a working driver ;-) So I need a major > > > > >>>>>> number for it. Who can assign one ? > > > > > > > > > > I call it currently myx. > > > > > > > > Ok, you have character major 97. If you plan on exporting a disklike > > > > interface but not using 'sd' or 'da', let me know and I'll arrange a > > > > block major as well. > > > > > > Yes I do plan that. > > > > Do you hope to be able to boot from the Mylex? If so, do you plan to > > support 2.2 (or non-DEVFS systems in general?) > > > > There are some issues regarding the bootability of devices with > > new major numbers that may make this unattractive. > > Currently I do all the work under -current, but I have myself some interest > to get it working under 2.2.x, in the case I don't need so long to get > it stable, before a 3.0 version will be released. > > For now, let's say only -current. Ok, you have block major 27 for your disklike devices. Enjoy! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 22:39:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18094 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:39:52 GMT (envelope-from rkw@Dataplex.NET) Received: from [208.2.87.6] (user6.dataplex.net [208.2.87.6]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10752; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:39:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804220403.VAA00375@antipodes.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:46 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:39:27 -0500 To: Mike Smith From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Help! Booting a diskless client. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:03 PM -0500 4/21/98, Mike Smith wrote: >You don't need '-r', the FreeBSD diskless swapper does a mount RPC on >the directory and then looks the file up, rather than other systems >that just mount the file directly. That shouldn't stop this working >though. > >What's the booting system output for "swap is ..."? Nothing :-( As he sheeplishly slides away. What I thought was kernel loading was really NFS timeout. (Now WHY the nfsd was down??) >Are you using bootp? Did you remember to quote the colons in the >swap path? Nope, DHCP. I'm getting the right stuff through. Question: Do we even need swap? Cannot I put a line similar to this in the fstab and get the same thing? swap-server:/diskless/swapfiles/swap.208.2.87.13 none swap 0 0 Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 22:52:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20065 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:52:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles47.castles.com [208.214.165.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20035 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:52:51 GMT (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00739; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220550.WAA00739@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Help! Booting a diskless client. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:39:27 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:50:02 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 11:03 PM -0500 4/21/98, Mike Smith wrote: > >You don't need '-r', the FreeBSD diskless swapper does a mount RPC on > >the directory and then looks the file up, rather than other systems > >that just mount the file directly. That shouldn't stop this working > >though. > > > >What's the booting system output for "swap is ..."? > > Nothing :-( As he sheeplishly slides away. > > What I thought was kernel loading was really NFS timeout. (Now WHY the nfsd > was down??) Ah. Ok. Worth noting. > >Are you using bootp? Did you remember to quote the colons in the > >swap path? > > Nope, DHCP. I'm getting the right stuff through. ie. your DHCP server answers BOOTP requests. > Question: Do we even need swap? Cannot I put a line similar to this in the > fstab and get the same thing? > > swap-server:/diskless/swapfiles/swap.208.2.87.13 none swap 0 0 We don't need swap, no. And I don't know if 'swapon' will handle NFS swaps like that or no - why not try it and tell us? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 23:14:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24620 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:14:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24578 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:14:53 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07321; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353D8ADA.C7C987CA@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:14:50 -0700 From: Studded Reply-To: FreeBSD Questions Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0420 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Frader CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestions on patching kernel src References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This question actually belongs on freebsd-questions, please reply there if needed. John Frader wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a machine running 2.2.1 that I want to apply the recent security > patches to(foof, land etc...) but it seems that the patches are for newer > src code than is on the machine. I don't want to do a make world incase > for some reason something went wrong (the machine is in use and is 4 hours > away) and was wondering if it would go ok to cvsup just a new src tree and > recompile? Never ever ever upgrade just the kernel. This is several times more important when you are upgrading across version numbers. There is an excellent tutorial on how to make world, including tips for remote upgrading. You can find it at http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html. I upgrade machines remotely all the time, just follow the steps on that tutorial to the letter and you'll be ok. Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 21 23:33:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29679 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:32:53 GMT (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.20]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19291; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:32:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18105; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:32:37 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: scooter.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:32:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox In-Reply-To: <19980421033059.33555@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under > Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This > sounds like a totally screwed up VM system. When I used Linux, a 2.0 kernel compile took about 45 minutes on my 20MB 486 66MHz. Are you using 8MHz 386's? Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 00:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (root@tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13739; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:13:36 GMT (envelope-from hafner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Received: from hprbg5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.0.200] EHLO hprbg5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ident: root [port 4319]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with ESMTP id <110891-221>; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:13:27 +0000 Received: from hafner@localhost by hprbg5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <7618-673>; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:13:13 +0000 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Euro key ? From: Walter Hafner Date: 22 Apr 1998 09:13:05 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Just a reminder for the developers: In the near future some european countries will get a new common currency, the "Euro". Siemens, e.g., does all internal money exchange in Euro from 1999 on. The symbol for the Euro is some kind of "round E with two lines in the middle". Sorry, I can't describe it better than that. :-) Some german computer manufactors (Siemens ...) already ship PCs with the Euro symbol at position AltGr-E (and I believe a patched Win95 that supports it). Pleas take care that the console driver supports the Euro symbol as it will get pretty importatn over here very soon. Thanks, -Walter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 00:19:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15594 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA15589 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:19:51 GMT (envelope-from koshy@india.hp.com) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id AAA08823 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804220719.AAA08823@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA116089417; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:46:57 +0530 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: On recursive makes (Miller's paper) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:46:57 +0530 From: A Joseph Koshy Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't find mention of this paper by Peter Miller in the archives, so I thought I'd post it. "Recursive Make considered Harmful". http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html Millers thesis is that by (manually) dividing development into independent subdirectories we are artificially sectioning the projects dependency DAG into sub-graphs and are losing dependency information in the process. Its an interesting paper. Koshy My Personal Opinions Only. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 03:58:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13809 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:58:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vorbis.noc.easynet.net (qmailr@vorbis.noc.easynet.net [195.40.1.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA13794 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:58:17 GMT (envelope-from chrisy@vorbis.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 9562 invoked by uid 1943); 22 Apr 1998 10:58:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:58:07 +0100 From: Chrisy Luke To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath/ Multipath routing means you can have more than one gateway per destination in the routing table. I dropped the project for a bit since the Beta 1 release in January. This release supports multiple interfaces and has some installation destructions. Comments, bugs etc always welcome. Regards, Chris Luke. README.MPATH: Multipath Routing for FreeBSD ----------------------------- Beta 2 release. 22 April 1998. Patches for FreeBSD-2.2.6-STABLE (last cvsup'ed on 21 April 1998). Installation ------------ Please follow these in order... NOTE: This is *NOT* production code! Do not use it on a backbone yet. I won't have sympathy for you if you do and it fries... In the tar file are a number of diffs all relative to /usr/src. One is for the sys/ tree (the kernel source) and the others for ifconfig(8), netstat(8) and route(8). I recommend you make copies of these binary sources into directories called "name.mpath" firstly for backup, secondly because cvsup overwrties files with changes with their current versions! Patch everything up as usual. If you don't know how, you shouldn't be playing with this code... You will need to copy the patched sys/net/route.h to /usr/include/net/route.h, taking a copy of the original first, of course. There is an example kernel config file in sys/i386/conf/QBert-MPath. The important lines in this file are: options EA_MULTIPATH options "EA_N_MULTIPATH=4" options "MSIZE=256" The first two enable the patched code to be compiled in (all the code in the kernel is delimited with #ifdef EA_MULTIPATH - I hope) and the number of multipath gateways to support for each destination. This has to be hardcoded, I'm afraid, without a major rewrite of nearly everything. MSIZE is the size of an mbuf. The extra data made routing socket messages too big for a single mbuf. This shouldn't be too terrible an overheard, many people have been considering making this the default for a long time. Compile the kernel, compile the patches binaries. You will also need to recompile arp(8) (no patches necessary) and anything else that makes use of the routing socket (or #include's route.h) to make them understand the new message structure. Particularly braindead code may need hacking to get it right (see below). Install it all, reboot, and hope for the best... ...with this code, I can type... bash-2.01# route add default -gateway 193.131.248.183 -gateway 195.40.1.1 ...and get a routing table that looks like... bash-2.01# netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default UGSc 2 989 193.131.248.183 494 fxp2 *195.40.1.1 495 fxp0 127.0.0.1 *127.0.0.1 UH 1 14 lo0 193.131.248 *link#3 UC 0 0 193.131.248.20 *0:0:c0:a0:b1:e3 UHLW 0 357 fxp2 997 [etc] ...(note the gateways and their interfaces, also note the "Use" column) and thus get traceroutes like... bash-2.01# traceroute -n 195.40.6.30 traceroute to 195.40.6.30 (195.40.6.30), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 195.40.1.1 0.629 ms 193.131.248.183 0.551 ms 195.40.1.1 0.491 ms 2 193.131.248.1 0.620 ms 195.40.1.13 0.676 ms 193.131.248.1 0.636 ms 3 195.40.6.30 0.975 ms 0.886 ms 0.915 ms Note the alternating IP's on *every* response. This is what it's all about. If the remote machine (195.40.6.30) has multipath code, then all data between these two hosts would use both available paths. Fixing things (programs) that don't work ---------------------------------------- Also in the tar is share/man/man4/route.mpath.4 which you may want to install. It has a brief descriprion of the changed routing socket messages. The notable difference is that the RTA_GATEWAY data is at the *end* of the message now instead of the middle, and that it's formed from a bit pattern that specifies how many gateways are in the message (which follow each other, at the end of said message). Code that doesn't follow the values of the RTA masks, even for single-gateway destinations, will have unpredictable results! Other things ------------ I've updated most man pages. I've probably missed a few, but route(8) is the most important in my mind. Route(8) has relatively good visual support for multipath routes. I've not yet defined a mechanism in the routing socket for passing multiple interface information, so it won't display that there. It works for netstat(8) because it accesses the kernel memory directly. I'm working on GateD. I've got GateD3_6Alpha_2 doing something half sensible, but not quite. When I've done GateD4 I'll submit those changes back to the Consortium. I'm not going to touch routed. Someone else can do that, if they want. I'll include diffs here should I recieve them. Bugs, comments, flames to chris@easynet.net or chrisy@flix.net. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 03:59:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13874 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13866; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:58:57 GMT (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01490; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:58:44 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199804221058.MAA01490@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Euro key ? In-Reply-To: from Walter Hafner at "Apr 22, 98 09:13:05 am" To: hafner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Walter Hafner) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:58:43 +0200 (MEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Walter Hafner who wrote: > Hi! > > Just a reminder for the developers: > > In the near future some european countries will get a new common > currency, the "Euro". Siemens, e.g., does all internal money exchange in > Euro from 1999 on. > > The symbol for the Euro is some kind of "round E with two lines in the > middle". Sorry, I can't describe it better than that. :-) > > Some german computer manufactors (Siemens ...) already ship PCs with the > Euro symbol at position AltGr-E (and I believe a patched Win95 that > supports it). Yeah but where is it in the iso8859-1 page ?? I can easily put it on your keyboard when I know what charcode its supposed to have ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 04:43:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23606 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bsd.synx.com (rt.synx.com [194.167.81.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23573; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:42:40 GMT (envelope-from <@rn.synx.com:root@rn.synx.com>) Received: from s3.synx.com (s3 [192.1.1.247]) by bsd.synx.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05139; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:47:21 +0100 Received: from rn by s3.synx.com id aa28327; 22 Apr 98 13:32 BST Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:41:57 +0200 (CEST) From: remy@synx.com Reply-To: remy@synx.com Subject: Re: Euro key ? To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hafner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804221058.MAA01490@sos.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-ID: <9804221332.aa28327@s3.synx.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA23584 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22 Apr, Soren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Walter Hafner who wrote: >> Hi! >> >> Just a reminder for the developers: >> >> In the near future some european countries will get a new common >> currency, the "Euro". Siemens, e.g., does all internal money exchange in >> Euro from 1999 on. >> >> The symbol for the Euro is some kind of "round E with two lines in the >> middle". Sorry, I can't describe it better than that. :-) >> >> Some german computer manufactors (Siemens ...) already ship PCs with the >> Euro symbol at position AltGr-E (and I believe a patched Win95 that >> supports it). > > Yeah but where is it in the iso8859-1 page ?? > I can easily put it on your keyboard when I know what charcode its > supposed to have ?? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Don't worry about that. The great politicians will decide this later about the possibility of setting-up a commission who will decide the opportunity to editing the guidelines for a meeting of technodisabled guys that finaly will decide for replacing the letter 'E' by the glyph (a '$' sign merged with the greek Epsilon) they invented and call it the ISO/8859\EURO.1$*EE. No hurry. Let's wait to see what funny code the Wxx will return, put it on keyboard mapping, and let European users fontedit the X fonts to have things match. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 04:54:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25660 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25599 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:53:38 GMT (envelope-from md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) Received: from grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (md6tommy@grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.21]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27657; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:53:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (md6tommy@localhost) by grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11122; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:53:30 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: grosse.mdstud.chalmers.se: md6tommy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:53:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: Tommy Hallgren To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: tommy@profive.com Subject: ACPI and LM78 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is anyone working on ACPI support? I'm particulary interested in the LM78 temperature stuff. Tommy Hallgren(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - the source of all good beers... Go to http://www.freebsd.org and get real BSD Unix. Today! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 05:21:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00248 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:21:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.opengroup.org (postman.opengroup.org [130.105.1.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00223; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:20:59 GMT (envelope-from k.#nojunk#keithley@opengroup.org) Received: from kaleb.keithley.belmont.ma.us (horizon2.camb.opengroup.org [130.105.39.26]) by postman.opengroup.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA16567; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353DE264.2F1CF0FB@opengroup.org> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:28:20 -0400 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: The Open Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-971225-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hafner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Euro key ? References: <9804221332.aa28327@s3.synx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG remy@synx.com wrote: > On 22 Apr, Soren Schmidt wrote: > > In reply to Walter Hafner who wrote: > >> The symbol for the Euro... > > > > Yeah but where is it in the iso8859-1 page ?? > > No hurry. Let's wait to see what funny code the Wxx will return, put it > on keyboard mapping, and let European users fontedit the X fonts to have > things match. Editing ISO8859-x fonts is far from the right thing to do. Making X display the Euro glyph is easy, but there are larger problems than X. For example, if you fontedit your ISO8859-x fonts to change the currency glyph (code point 0xa4) to the Euro glyph, that'll make it possible for things to look nice on your screen, but then you're not going to get the same thing on a piece of paper when you print that file. ISO needs to do two things. First they need to define an ISO2022 escape sequence that you can use switch to a codeset that defines the Euro. Second, they need to define that new codeset that contains the Euro, and all the other miscellaneous currency characters, e.g. that are defined in Unicode/ISO10646 but not in any other character set. (Perhaps they've already done this?) I already have a query in to ISO about those two things. Whether they can act quickly enough to produce something usable is a different question. Perhaps I presume too much when I think that there's a risk that they'll come back and say "it's in Unicode, use Unicode." Is everyone ready to switch en mass to Unicode? In the mean time the X11 specifications and the Sample Implementation are being augmented with new keysyms, one or more new fonts, and a non-standard escape sequence to switch between codesets. Once ISO defines a standard escape sequence then the SI will be changed accordingly. (Now the rest of the world gets to learn how to deal with codeset switching, which the Japanese have been doing for years. All thanks to the Euro. :-) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY X Architect, The Open Group X Project Team To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 06:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns2.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07057 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:13:26 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (screen2r.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.1]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28296; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27780; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id JAA21644; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:12:49 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03320; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:12:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804221312.JAA03320@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Tom cc: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail error messages...caused by limits? In-Reply-To: Message from Tom of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:36:08 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:12:32 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG tom@sdf.com said: :- Do a "pstat -T" to find out. I find this doubtful, unless you have :- a really low MAXUSERS setting. A default GENERIC has thousands of :- descriptors. >From my config file: maxusers 40 I had a tcl script do periodic pstat -T's while building the software. Sendmail said: Apr 22 09:01:51 tuva sendmail[3267]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: putoutmsg (NO-HOST): error on output channel sending "451 fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor": Input/output error Apr 22 09:01:51 tuva sendmail[3267]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: Bad file descriptor Apr 22 09:01:59 tuva sendmail[3267]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR(bwithrow): fill_fd: before readcf: fd 2 not open: Bad file descriptor pstat said: Wed Apr 22 09:01:32 EDT 1998 -- 186/1320 files 57M/137M swap space Wed Apr 22 09:01:39 EDT 1998 -- 183/1320 files 46M/137M swap space Wed Apr 22 09:01:45 EDT 1998 -- 183/1320 files 46M/137M swap space Wed Apr 22 09:01:50 EDT 1998 -- 182/1320 files 46M/137M swap space Wed Apr 22 09:01:55 EDT 1998 -- 182/1320 files 45M/137M swap space Wed Apr 22 09:02:01 EDT 1998 -- 184/1320 files 45M/137M swap space The 9:01 time corresponds to when this executable was being linked: -rwxrwxr-x 1 23904904 Apr 22 09:01 >From observation, the sendmail error messages *always* correspond to the time when this executable is being linked. This seems to indicate that *some* resource is being exhausted, but apparently not swap or descriptors. Can anyone suggest something else to try? P.S.: bash-2.01$ uname -r 2.2.6-RELEASE -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 06:22:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08395 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08389 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:22:33 GMT (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from grotte.ifi.uio.no (2602@grotte.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.60]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA04996; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:22:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by grotte.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:22:27 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Denis A. Baldwin" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: writing a book.. need input References: "Eric A. Davis" "Re: how to add new system calls..." (Apr 15, 10:12am) <199804202348.TAA00132@ns.cac.net> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 22 Apr 1998 15:22:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Denis A. Baldwin"'s message of "Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:48:33 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Denis A. Baldwin" writes: > I am writing a book on the electronic underworld. This book includes > information, history and a quasi instruction manual to hacking, > cracking, phreaking, AMSAT, pirate radio, virii, warez and anything > similar. I am looking for contributions, thoughts, ideas or anybody I must be stupid, as I fail to see the similarities between hacking and "cracking, phreaking, AMSAT, pirate radio, virii, warez and anything similar". Everybody on this list is involved in the former; nobody I know of is involved in the latter. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 07:21:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20266 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:21:04 GMT (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19942; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199804221420.HAA19942@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Chrisy Luke cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:58:07 BST." <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:20:42 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath/ > > Multipath routing means you can have more than one gateway per > destination in the routing table. I dropped the project for a bit > since the Beta 1 release in January. This release supports multiple > interfaces and has some installation destructions. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not sure that I want to experience "installation destructions" 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 09:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osiris.staff.udg.mx (leonf@[148.202.3.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11755 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:18:15 GMT (envelope-from leonf@osiris.staff.udg.mx) Received: (from leonf@localhost) by osiris.staff.udg.mx (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA29377 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:18:00 GMT From: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" Message-Id: <9804221117.ZM29375@osiris.staff.udg.mx> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:17:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced from text segment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi!!! i'm working on web design and I need to create encripted passwors, I tried with a modified version of NCSA htpasswd program: genpass.c # more genpass.c /* * htpasswd.c: simple program for manipulating password file for NCSA httpd * */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #define LF 10 #define CR 13 #define MAX_STRING_LEN 256 char *tn; /* From local_passwd.c (C) Regents of Univ. of California blah blah */ static unsigned char itoa64[] = /* 0 ... 63 => ascii - 64 */ "./0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"; to64(s, v, n) register char *s; register long v; register int n; { while (--n >= 0) { *s++ = itoa64[v&0x3f]; v >>= 6; } } char *crypt(char *pw, char *salt); /* why aren't these prototyped in include */ void add_password(char *user,char *pw) { char *cpw, *pru, salt[3]; (void)srand((int)time((time_t *)NULL)); to64(&salt[0],rand(),2); cpw = crypt(pw,salt); printf("%s",cpw); } main(int argc, char *argv[]) { char user[MAX_STRING_LEN]; char line[MAX_STRING_LEN]; char l[MAX_STRING_LEN]; char w[MAX_STRING_LEN]; char command[MAX_STRING_LEN]; int found; tn = NULL; add_password(argv[1],argv[2]); } but i get this mesg gcc -o genpass genpass.c /var/tmp/cc0159851.o: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced any idea? Thanx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 09:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14273 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:26:31 GMT (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA15080; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced from text segment In-Reply-To: <9804221117.ZM29375@osiris.staff.udg.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR wrote: > gcc -o genpass genpass.c > /var/tmp/cc0159851.o: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced > > any idea? gcc -o genpass genpass.c -lcrypt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 09:27:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:27:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from java.dpcsys.com (java.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14306 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:26:46 GMT (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by java.dpcsys.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA15609; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Busarow To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail error messages...caused by limits? In-Reply-To: <199804221312.JAA03320@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Robert Withrow wrote: > Apr 22 09:01:51 tuva sendmail[3267]: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: putoutmsg (NO-HOST): > error on output channel sending "451 fill_fd: before readcf: fd 1 not open: > Bad file descriptor": Input/output error Do you have a lot if IPs aliased on this system? The latest sendmail has a ListenOn style directive (I don't need it so don't know the real name, sorry) for this situation. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 10:01:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22720 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silic.one.sci.fi (silic.one.sci.fi [195.74.8.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22703 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:01:33 GMT (envelope-from anttik@silic.one.sci.fi) Received: (from anttik@localhost) by silic.one.sci.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) id UAA19341; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:05:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from anttik) To: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced from text segment References: <9804221117.ZM29375@osiris.staff.udg.mx> From: Antti Kaipila Date: 22 Apr 1998 20:05:46 +0300 In-Reply-To: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR"'s message of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:17:58 -0700" Message-ID: <85af9dpz11.fsf@silic.one.sci.fi> Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" writes: > Hi!!! > > i'm working on web design and I need to create encripted passwors, I tried with > a modified version of NCSA htpasswd program: * KLIP KLIP KLIP * > but i get this mesg > > gcc -o genpass genpass.c > /var/tmp/cc0159851.o: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced > > any idea? gcc -o genpass genpass.c -lcrypt -- Antti Kaipila To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 10:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24458 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns5.baynetworks.com [194.133.90.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24438 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:07:20 GMT (envelope-from bwithrow@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM ([134.177.1.109]) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04064; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:06:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10247; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (tuva [192.32.68.38]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with ESMTP id NAA13646; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:03:18 -0400 for Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05458; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:03:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bwithrow@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com) Message-Id: <199804221703.NAA05458@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dan Busarow cc: Robert Withrow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sendmail error messages...caused by limits? In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Busarow of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:26:56 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:03:09 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dan@dpcsys.com said: :- Do you have a lot if IPs aliased on this system? Nope. bash-2.01$ ifconfig -a vx0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 192.32.68.38 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.32.68.255 ether 00:a0:24:6d:04:e8 lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 tun0: flags=8010 mtu 1500 lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 Also, it seems like this problem happens frequently when I ld anything of substantial size, but it doesn't happen every time... -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 916 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 10:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA01000 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:54:26 GMT (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yS3Jp-0000c7-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:28:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:28:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Chrisy Luke cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. In-Reply-To: <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote: > I'm working on GateD. I've got GateD3_6Alpha_2 doing something half > sensible, but not quite. When I've done GateD4 I'll submit those changes > back to the Consortium. How sensible? I'm more concerned about correct fail-over to a working default route if one of them dies. Currently, I'm not sure what gated does if it finds that two routers are advertising a default route as the current code supports one default route at a time. Now with that your code supports multiple indentical routes, would gated automatically remove the ones that stop being advertised? Also, how about multiple interfaces to the same network? For example, let say I have fxp0 and fxp1 connected to the same LAN (10.0.0.0/24) and fxp0 is 10.0.0.2 and fxp1 is 10.0.0.3. The existing kernel code can't easily handle this because there are two identical routes to the 10.0.0.0/24 network. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 11:07:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vorbis.noc.easynet.net (qmailr@vorbis.noc.easynet.net [195.40.1.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA04253 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:07:41 GMT (envelope-from chrisy@vorbis.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 2795 invoked by uid 1943); 22 Apr 1998 18:07:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19980422190736.12821@flix.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:07:36 +0100 From: Chrisy Luke To: Tom Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. References: <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 10:28:18AM -0700 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom wrote (on Apr 22): > How sensible? I'm more concerned about correct fail-over to a working > default route if one of them dies. Currently, I'm not sure what gated > does if it finds that two routers are advertising a default route as the > current code supports one default route at a time. With a uni-path kernel it installs the one with the lowest valued gateway address, all other things being equal. ie, 195.40.1.1 is lower than 195.40.1.2. This is one of my prime intentions for the code, with loadbalancing when both routes are visible as a perk. This makes is much much more worthwhile deploying routerdiscovery around my network, for instance. One machine fails (and if gated noticed in time, it will poison it's routediscovery announcements) and all the clients revert to whatever routes it still sees. This already works - gated installs a new default route. What I want is for, when the network is stable, to balance traffic across the available gateways. We might as well, the kit might as well do something useful since I've paid for it. Similarly, where I have two routers takling to a NAP, I will be able to the same thing across them by importing all the BGP routes learnt there into multipath capable routers on the next hops. What you do have to be careful of, of course, is not having routers pointing half of a route back to a router that, while of equal preference, could send it back. I've got gated installing the routes, but right now it's not playing ball with removing them. I've had to reverse out of an idea where you could remove specific gateways for a destination - gated's code proved unworkable for it. It's either remove the lot and replace or fix the forever-broken RTM_CHANGE code... You'll see some of my old RTM_DELETE code in the patch. It's ifdef'ed out. > Now with that your > code supports multiple indentical routes, would gated automatically remove > the ones that stop being advertised? That's the idea. > Also, how about multiple interfaces to the same network? For example, > let say I have fxp0 and fxp1 connected to the same LAN (10.0.0.0/24) and > fxp0 is 10.0.0.2 and fxp1 is 10.0.0.3. The existing kernel code can't > easily handle this because there are two identical routes to the > 10.0.0.0/24 network. My code only deals with routes to networks, not interface routes. It specificly tries not to deal with link-level stuff, but it should be possible to add multiple routes to MAC addresses, where each one is on a specific interface. It'd be a matter of removing any safeguards to that effect and adding functionality to the routing socket to pass multiple interfaces. At the moment my changes are limited to multiple gateways. The other thing I'll add in due course is weighting specific gateways (or of course interfaces as and when), so that you could install two routes to destination "a", where the first one has a value of 10 and the second 1. In this case, it sends 10 packets to "a" via the first route before sending 1 via the second. Cheers, Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 11:20:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06445 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:20:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from altos.rnd.runnet.ru (altos.rnd.runnet.ru [195.208.248.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06433 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:20:20 GMT (envelope-from max@rnd.runnet.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by altos.rnd.runnet.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18867 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:20:52 +0400 (MSD) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:20:51 +0400 (MSD) From: Maxim Bolotin To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! As I write year ago, We have driver for IBM EtherJet ethernet card. It's cs8920M chip based card. TP only. We have 70 computers with FreeBSD 2.2.5, work 1 year. I make some style changes of code, and I want commite it. What have I to do it. Max. - Rostov State University Computer Center Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476 Russia, RUNNet, MAB1-RIPE max@rsu.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 11:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from altos.rnd.runnet.ru (root@altos.rnd.runnet.ru [195.208.248.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06668 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:21:02 GMT (envelope-from max@rnd.runnet.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by altos.rnd.runnet.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18914 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:22:06 +0400 (MSD) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:22:06 +0400 (MSD) From: Maxim Bolotin To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Driver for IBM EtherJet (cs8920M). Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! As I write year ago, We have driver for IBM EtherJet ethernet card. It's cs8920M chip based card. TP only. We have 70 computers with FreeBSD 2.2.5, work 1 year. I make some style changes of code, and I want commite it. What have I to do it. Max. - Rostov State University Computer Center Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476 Russia, RUNNet, MAB1-RIPE max@rsu.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 11:35:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:35:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11060 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:35:46 GMT (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12435; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:35:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Chrisy Luke cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. In-Reply-To: <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Chrisy Luke wrote: > ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath/ > > Multipath routing means you can have more than one gateway per > destination in the routing table. I dropped the project for a bit > since the Beta 1 release in January. This release supports multiple > interfaces and has some installation destructions. > > Comments, bugs etc always welcome. Cool. I'd wondered where you ran off to. Keep up the good work. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 13:08:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06432 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:08:12 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00389; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804222001.NAA00389@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Maxim Bolotin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:20:51 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:01:53 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi! G'day Max! > As I write year ago, We have driver for IBM EtherJet ethernet card. > It's cs8920M chip based card. TP only. We have 70 computers with > FreeBSD 2.2.5, work 1 year. I make some style changes of code, and > I want commite it. What have I to do it. I looked at your driver last year, and made some suggestions then, but never heard back from you. If your driver is available somewhere for FTP, I'll do the same again. I think I should be able to obtain one of these cards for testing as well, and once we're both happy, I'll arrange for it to be committed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 13:27:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12262 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:27:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12202 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:27:07 GMT (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04992 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:26:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:26:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199804222026.WAA04992@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Euro key ? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In list.freebsd-hackers you wrote (22 Apr 1998 14:21:39 +0200): > remy@synx.com wrote: > > On 22 Apr, Soren Schmidt wrote: > > > In reply to Walter Hafner who wrote: > > >> The symbol for the Euro... > > > > > > Yeah but where is it in the iso8859-1 page ?? > [...] > > I already have a query in to ISO about those two things. Whether they > can act quickly enough to produce something usable is a different > question. Perhaps I presume too much when I think that there's a risk > that they'll come back and say "it's in Unicode, use Unicode." Is > everyone ready to switch en mass to Unicode? Well, it _is_ in Unicode: 20A0;EURO-CURRENCY SIGN FreeBSD will have to switch to Unicode sooner or later anyway, I think. There is already a substantial amount of code to support multibyte characters (but I'm afraid that there's still a lot of work to do). Just my 2 cents... Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 13:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18052 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:46:39 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00698; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804222043.NAA00698@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Tommy Hallgren cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tommy@profive.com Subject: Re: ACPI and LM78 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:53:30 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:43:21 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is anyone working on ACPI support? I'm particulary interested in the LM78 > temperature stuff. There have been some discussions on ACPI, and a few interested parties, but no committed work, no. ACPI needs to be addressed as a whole; it encompasses a great deal more than just temperature measurement. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 13:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21401 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21313 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:54:11 GMT (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA18304 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:54:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05690; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:54:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:54:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199804222054.OAA05690@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Euro key ? Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers In-Reply-To: <199804222026.WAA04992@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> References: <199804222026.WAA04992@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD will have to switch to Unicode sooner or later anyway, > I think. I disagree. We're trying to use Unicode in a commercial application, and we've come to the conclusion that Unicode is *NO* better than shifted wide-char support. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 15:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13405 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vorbis.noc.easynet.net (qmailr@vorbis.noc.easynet.net [195.40.1.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA13362 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:11:18 GMT (envelope-from chrisy@vorbis.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 12968 invoked by uid 1943); 22 Apr 1998 22:11:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19980422231105.02523@flix.net> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:11:05 +0100 From: Chrisy Luke To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beta 2 Release of Multipath Routing Code. References: <19980422115807.39446@flix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew N. Dodd on Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 02:35:21PM -0400 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew N. Dodd wrote (on Apr 22): > Cool. I'd wondered where you ran off to. Keep up the good work. I'm here - just I have that necessary evil known as a day job! Things got a touch busy. Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 17:31:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (uKKxrHG9NPltdaXHUlnxr+rpwmgceod2@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16360 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:30:46 GMT (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id TAA07017; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:29:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01307; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:27:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:27:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox In-Reply-To: <19980421033059.33555@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: >I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under >Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This RedHat? This is from an IBM 486SX/25 with 16MB ram that was dredged from the back closet to serve as a 5 user samba print and file server: text data bss dec hex 1044480 69632 87140 1201252 125464 3817.34s real 3195.95s user 402.75s system For all the lack of horse power, this machine does it's job quite well. The sales droids don't notice any degredation of service. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 17:35:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18022 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17820 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:35:11 GMT (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04594; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:35:09 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA15797; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 02:35:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980423023507.17251@follo.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 02:35:07 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Jay Nelson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox References: <19980421033059.33555@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jay Nelson on Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:27:55PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:27:55PM -0500, Jay Nelson wrote: > On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > >I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under > >Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This > > RedHat? > > This is from an IBM 486SX/25 with 16MB ram that was dredged from the > back closet to serve as a 5 user samba print and file server: > > text data bss dec hex > 1044480 69632 87140 1201252 125464 > 3817.34s real 3195.95s user 402.75s system > > For all the lack of horse power, this machine does it's job quite > well. The sales droids don't notice any degredation of service. That sounds like the person that told me he had 3 hours compile times on a P90 was off base. (The 'I got' above was badly formulated.) It still would be neat if we could show that FreeBSD compile a Linux kernel faster than Linux :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 17:44:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20356 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20258 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:35 GMT (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16457; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:43:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd016425; Wed Apr 22 17:43:25 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15289; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:43:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804230043.RAA15289@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Euro key ? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:43:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804222054.OAA05690@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 22, 98 02:54:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > FreeBSD will have to switch to Unicode sooner or later anyway, > > I think. > > I disagree. We're trying to use Unicode in a commercial application, > and we've come to the conclusion that Unicode is *NO* better than > shifted wide-char support. ?????????????? Multibyte encodings instead of raw wchar_t mean: o I can't know how many characters will fit in an N character field: it's not sizeof(field)/sizeof(wchar_t) o I can't do fixed field input because field lengths are no longer fixed. o I can't do fixed field storage (all my COBOL programs quit working, and no one wrote any replacements for me). o I can't use sizeof(file)/sizeof(struct) to get a record count o I can't know ahead of time whether or not I have enough disk space to store the document I created in memory (oops! -- better "store" it on the printer!). o Input buffer overrun is harder to prevent. o I have to translate between storage encoding and program internal (wchar_t) encoding. Consider "cat a b | more". o I can't "attribute" a file system into a round trip character set at mount time: for example, a legacy file system that has not-7-bit data on it already... like ISO 8859-X or KOI-8 or KOI-8U, or ISO 2022 encoded JIS-208 and JIS-212, which are not already multibyte encoded in UTF-8 (or -- gack! -- UTF-7). o Because I can't do that, all my CDROM's are now useless unless I twiddle my locale in-and-out, in-and-out. o I can't NFS mount a legacy system not in 7 bit US ASCII, even if I make a "magic" layer that applies only to NFS. o I can't round-trip between 8-bit ??? encoding and 16-bit Unicode encoding (ISO 10646 code page 0) and 32-bit ISO 10646 (of which only code page 0 is likely to be defined for the next 10 years, since others only exist as a nod to the language bigots) automatically, using page multiplication (where an on disk 4k page becomes 2 or 4, respectively, in core VM pages). o I can't use text data in mmap()'ed files without calling translation functions. o I can't support VFAT32 Unicode names directly. o I can't support LDAP and other ASN.1 encoded raw Unicode byte streams directly. o I can't support NTFS long file names directly. o I can't support NetWare client services, directly. o I can't support CIFS client services directly. o I can't know if the new directory entry will take more room thn the previous directory entry (in the FS directory block). Basically, the only reason for them is so that 7 bit ASCII users (read: English speakers) don't have to modify their legacy code or US ASCII-centric data so that it will keep working. ASCII bigotry: what a stupid excuse for all those limitations and all that extra processing overhead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 17:48:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21374 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:48:18 GMT (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17823; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd017793; Wed Apr 22 17:48:16 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15593; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:48:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804230048.RAA15593@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Euro key ? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:48:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199804222054.OAA05690@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 22, 98 02:54:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I disagree. We're trying to use Unicode in a commercial application, > > and we've come to the conclusion that Unicode is *NO* better than > > shifted wide-char support. I forgot: o I can't use my 7-bit NRCS-using terminals any more. o I have to change printers unless I license PostScript. o I can't simpy do character replacement in an editor because the new character may take more or fewer cahracters than the last one, even though there are the same number of characters. o I can't use a binary editor to blow strings into a file, for the same reason. o I am incompatible with the most widely deployed character encoding standard in the world (Windows 9x/NT use unencoded 16 bit Unicode). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 18:16:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28535 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:16:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (wrYTyPj6O8ukEZE3WeZLqxzOi0oEcvlK@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28460 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:15:35 GMT (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id UAA07125; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:14:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01407; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:02:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:02:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox In-Reply-To: <19980423023507.17251@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: >On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:27:55PM -0500, Jay Nelson wrote: >> On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: >> >> >I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under >> >Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This >> >> RedHat? >> >> This is from an IBM 486SX/25 with 16MB ram that was dredged from the >> back closet to serve as a 5 user samba print and file server: >> >> text data bss dec hex >> 1044480 69632 87140 1201252 125464 >> 3817.34s real 3195.95s user 402.75s system >> >> For all the lack of horse power, this machine does it's job quite >> well. The sales droids don't notice any degredation of service. Forgot to mention -- this was an IDE drive with no flags. A basic ISA system. >That sounds like the person that told me he had 3 hours compile times >on a P90 was off base. (The 'I got' above was badly formulated.) If I remember correctly, it took 25-35 minutes to make a linux kernel on a 486DX. I may have enough open space on this machine to try the experiment -- if I can dig out just the kernel sources. It's been so long since I looked at linux, I can't remember how it's packaged. >It still would be neat if we could show that FreeBSD compile a Linux >kernel faster than Linux :-) > >Eivind. > -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 20:30:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18376 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18335 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 03:30:50 GMT (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tnt82.wcc.net [208.10.139.82]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05038; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:13:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01278; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:54:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:54:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804230254.VAA01278@detlev.UUCP> To: gibbs@plutotech.com CC: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, gibbs@plutotech.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199804190229.UAA04346@pluto.plutotech.com> (gibbs@plutotech.com) Subject: Re: CVS and emacs-20.2 From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199804190229.UAA04346@pluto.plutotech.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> (setq vc-handle-cvs nil) >>> which does what you want. >> ahhhh... i did this: >> (setq vc-handle-cvs 'nil) >> i guess the ' char is the culprit... guess not... just tried it.. >> still don't work... > I just tried it under XEmacs 20.3 and emacs 19.34 and it worked as > expected. I'd have to build a new (20.X) version of emacs to see why it > doesn't behave as expected there. Curious. I tried just now a M-: (setq vc-handle-cvs nil) RET and it worked as expected. I don't know why you would be having problems, but if you still are (after four days), then I'll be glad to work at it. At any rate, Emacs's CVS handling should not ever set the file as read-only. The fact that it ever does should be considered an undocumented feature. I should have to track it down. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 22:10:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04272 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:10:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (root@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04259 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id OAA00738; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:16:04 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:16:00 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: Eivind Eklund cc: Jay Nelson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestion for somebody with a 16MB testbox In-Reply-To: <19980423023507.17251@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I also noticed the significant speedup in kernel compile time when I switched to freebsd (from linux). I also like this simpler task of editing the config file direct as opposed to the ncurses interface I was subjected to on linux. Nicholas Brawn -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:27:55PM -0500, Jay Nelson wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > >I just got some totally wild times for compiling a Linux kernel under > > >Linux on a 16MB machine (3 hours for a plain kernel compile). This > > > > RedHat? > > > > This is from an IBM 486SX/25 with 16MB ram that was dredged from the > > back closet to serve as a 5 user samba print and file server: > > > > text data bss dec hex > > 1044480 69632 87140 1201252 125464 > > 3817.34s real 3195.95s user 402.75s system > > > > For all the lack of horse power, this machine does it's job quite > > well. The sales droids don't notice any degredation of service. > > That sounds like the person that told me he had 3 hours compile times > on a P90 was off base. (The 'I got' above was badly formulated.) > > It still would be neat if we could show that FreeBSD compile a Linux > kernel faster than Linux :-) > > Eivind. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 23:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13373 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fedor.ipe.spb.su (ns.ipe.spb.su [195.242.24.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13358 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dio@ax.ru) Received: from ax.ru ([195.201.17.1]) by fedor.ipe.spb.su (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA03779; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:25:02 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <353EDE46.44FA7934@ax.ru> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:23:02 +0400 From: "Denis V. Talonin" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced from text segment References: <9804221117.ZM29375@osiris.staff.udg.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR wrote: > Hi!!! > > i'm working on web design and I need to create encripted passwors, I tried with > a modified version of NCSA htpasswd program: > > genpass.c > > # more genpass.c > /* > * htpasswd.c: simple program for manipulating password file for NCSA httpd > * > */ > > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > > #define LF 10 > #define CR 13 > > #define MAX_STRING_LEN 256 > > char *tn; > > /* From local_passwd.c (C) Regents of Univ. of California blah blah */ > static unsigned char itoa64[] = /* 0 ... 63 => ascii - 64 */ > "./0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"; > > to64(s, v, n) > register char *s; > register long v; > register int n; > { > while (--n >= 0) { > *s++ = itoa64[v&0x3f]; > v >>= 6; > } > } > > char *crypt(char *pw, char *salt); /* why aren't these prototyped in include */ > > void add_password(char *user,char *pw) { > char *cpw, *pru, salt[3]; > > (void)srand((int)time((time_t *)NULL)); > to64(&salt[0],rand(),2); > cpw = crypt(pw,salt); > printf("%s",cpw); > } > main(int argc, char *argv[]) { > char user[MAX_STRING_LEN]; > char line[MAX_STRING_LEN]; > char l[MAX_STRING_LEN]; > char w[MAX_STRING_LEN]; > char command[MAX_STRING_LEN]; > int found; > > tn = NULL; > add_password(argv[1],argv[2]); > } > > but i get this mesg > > gcc -o genpass genpass.c > /var/tmp/cc0159851.o: Undefined symbol `_crypt' referenced > > any idea? gcc -o genpass -lcrypt genpass.c Denis V. Talonin > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 22 23:58:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17261 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17243 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (dmorrisn@D-128-95-141-142.dhcp.washington.edu [128.95.141.142]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with ESMTP id XAA02159 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:58:02 -0700 Message-ID: <353EE72D.4922CF75@u.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:01:01 -0700 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: I got no answer on freebsd-questions to this message. I'd like to know, does this mean my memory has gone bad? [Fwd: panic: page fault (Is my memory going bad?)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A9AF5750A8CBF9462F994965" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A9AF5750A8CBF9462F994965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------A9AF5750A8CBF9462F994965 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <353E604F.F63F059@u.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:25:36 -0700 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: panic: page fault (Is my memory going bad?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I booted up my machine this morning I got a kernel panic right after logging in. It gave the output below. After I rebooted, it's run fine ever since. I do mount my filesystems async, but I always shut the system down properly(--it couldn't be that could it?) Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x400 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010f2dc stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffbf0 frame pointer = 0x10:0xefbffc24 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def 32, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 170 (csh) interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault syncing disks... 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 giv ing up Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort --------------A9AF5750A8CBF9462F994965-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 00:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20590 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:19:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20581 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19085; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804230717.AAA19085@implode.root.com> To: Don Morrison cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I got no answer on freebsd-questions to this message. I'd like to know, does this mean my memory has gone bad? [Fwd: panic: page fault (Is my memory going bad?)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:01:01 PDT." <353EE72D.4922CF75@u.washington.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:17:21 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >When I booted up my machine this morning I got a kernel panic right >after logging in. It gave the output below. After I rebooted, it's run >fine ever since. I do mount my filesystems async, but I always shut the >system down properly(--it couldn't be that could it?) > >Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0x400 >fault code = supervisor read, page not present >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010f2dc >stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffbf0 There's not enough information contained here to say why it occured. What we really need is a traceback, but you'd need a crash dump to get that. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 03:45:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA14512 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 03:45:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14506 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 03:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au) From: darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au Received: (from root@localhost) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14465; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:47:08 GMT Received: from avalon.reed.wattle.id.au(192.168.1.1) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au via smap (V1.3) id sma014463; Thu Apr 23 10:46:42 1998 Received: from percival.reed.wattle.id.au. by avalon.reed.wattle.id.au. (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01717; Thu, 23 Apr 98 20:48:39 EST Message-Id: <9804231048.AA01717@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au.> Subject: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:44:05 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980423015125.15103@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Apr 23, 98 01:51:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 01:50:05AM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > > > > > That's what I'm saying - it blow the userland interface. It means > > > that anything using IPFW has to track the kernel version exactly. > > > > There are numerous programs like this already - ps, netstat, top, etc. > > > > I'd say "deal with it". > > ps et.al. aren't that critical. Sure, it suck that they are that > way, but if ps is broken, _you can still get to the machine_. This is > not the case with IPFW. Having a structure-dependent interface for > the firewall is IMO not acceptable. Then maybe ipfw is `being handled wrongly'. You have code which lives in the kernel that must interface with the userland *tightly*. That entire bundle must stay consistant with respect to versions. It's not so much dependant on the kernel version, but rather you're changing the "ipfw" version when you change the kernel or user code. For what it's worth, using ipfw as an LKM (which isn't compiled out of /sys) maybe what you're really thinking of here although then your kernel security drops. Actually, I'm not sure what you're proposing makes any difference unless you're planning on using BPF to write ipfw rules, as the interface becomes `programmable' (along with the bloat required in the kernel to support it unless that's not a factor in your requirements). Well, that's my opinion, although I get the impression you're of a different mind. If you disagree, well I agree to disagree for now, until I see more details and can make a better decision. I'm not saying I don't want to discuss the above, however. Darren p.s. redirecting to hackers@... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 05:56:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:56:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25484 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:55:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28841 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:55:54 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA03070; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:55:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980423145553.50690@follo.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:55:53 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) References: <19980423015125.15103@follo.net> <9804231048.AA01717@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au.> <19980423135332.35381@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <9804231048.AA01717@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au.>; from darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au on Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 08:44:05PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This was supposed to go here, not in private to Darren :-( (I'll try to get his permission to forward his reply). On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 08:44:05PM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 01:50:05AM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > > > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > > > > > > > That's what I'm saying - it blow the userland interface. It means > > > > that anything using IPFW has to track the kernel version exactly. > > > > > > There are numerous programs like this already - ps, netstat, top, etc. > > > > > > I'd say "deal with it". > > > > ps et.al. aren't that critical. Sure, it suck that they are that > > way, but if ps is broken, _you can still get to the machine_. This is > > not the case with IPFW. Having a structure-dependent interface for > > the firewall is IMO not acceptable. > > Then maybe ipfw is `being handled wrongly'. You have code which lives in > the kernel that must interface with the userland *tightly*. That entire > bundle must stay consistant with respect to versions. It's not so much > dependant on the kernel version, but rather you're changing the "ipfw" > version when you change the kernel or user code. I don't care what I'm changing. I don't have a problem keeping my own machines working (though I must admit I feel slightly scared when I do remote updates that change IPFW). My problem is that I see _users_ being screwed by this each time we change IPFW. > For what it's worth, using ipfw as an LKM (which isn't compiled out of > /sys) maybe what you're really thinking of here although then your kernel > security drops. Actually, I'm not sure what you're proposing makes any > difference unless you're planning on using BPF to write ipfw rules, as > the interface becomes `programmable' (along with the bloat required in > the kernel to support it unless that's not a factor in your requirements). I've included (below) the original mail I sent to hackers on the subject. This interface allow anything that would 'just have required a re-compile of the old sources' to work. Anything else means we also have an unstable programmatic interface; that's _bad_, unless we're going to say that only /sbin/ipfw is going to be allowed to use that interface. Eivind. -------------------- Message-ID: <19980131071101.11786@follo.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:11:01 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: On a new IPFW interface, w/potentially wider applications Lines: 196 Does the below (inspired by tags on the Amiga) sound like a good idea for IPFW? Does it sound like it is such a good idea that it should be extended to a generic method of manipulating kernel objects instead of doing it only for IPFW? (Cost: At least one syscall number, up to four if we want separate syscalls for add/delete/commit/cancel, as well as making it approx twice as much work to implement as a special case for IPFW). And speaking of kernel interfaces: I've been thinking of a way of implementing capabilites (in the security sense) which would share a lot of properties with this interface, and might be cheap to implement along with it (I'd have to look more closely at the design issues to be certain). Do anybody but me feel that this (capabilites) would be a good direction to go for FreeBSD, or do people think we'll become 'too weird' that way? [Originally in a mail to Alex Nash] Speaking of the IPFW interface: I am quite tired of seeing necessary changes to that break other software. What do you say about an interface like the below? If that's OK, I'll look into implementing it or getting my mentoree to do it (unless you have enough time and want to do it yourself to get it done quickly :-) The basic idea behind the below is the make the interface create rules by itself with default values first, and then change the created rule by a set of setsockopt() calls until its parameters is correct. The new rule is then added to the list by a commit operation. Implementation detail: The interface should limit the number of non-committed rules to a fixed number, to stop kernel resource starvation by a userland process. Old non-committed rules should probably be thrown away in preference to new ones being denied; that will more easily protect against programming errors. I think a new new userland library for easy access to this would be a good idea; see bottom for details on how I envision this. ------------------------------------------------------------------ New socket options: IP_FW_START_ADD: struct { long version; /* Interface version, below is version 0 */ unsigned long list; /* Which rule list to work with (0 is the only presently correct list number) */ int number; /* "Line number"/rule number for IPFW */ unsigned long coookie; /* Filled in by the kernel; used as a capability (in the security sense) to identify this add operation for later manipulation. */ } This socket option starts a new add request; the add request will be filled with data and committed to the firewall lists later. List is allowed to be able to have more than one firewall list later, to allow filtering the way Cisco implements it. (If the structure is not copied to the kernel for a getsockopt() operation, we'll just have to make do with just returning a cookie. The above implementation would be preferable, as we won't have to specify as many parameters for to IP_FW_SET, and can upgrade the interface at will). IP_FW_SET: struct { unsigned long cookie; /* Previously returned from IP_FW_START_ADD. This identify which non-completed rule to manipulate. */ unsigned long field; /* Which field of the rule to manipulate */ unsigned char data[92]; /* The data for this field. 92 will allow it to fit in a 108 byte socket option together with a 64-bit cookie and 'field' ;-) */ } Manipulate the field of an as-of-yet uncommitted rule. IP_FW_COMMIT: struct { unsigned long cookie; /* The capability of the rule to commit */ } Commit a new rule into the kernel. IP_FW_CANCEL: struct { unsigned long cookie; /* The capability of the rule to cancel */ } Drop a rule that has been built in the kernel. IP_FW_START_GET: struct { long version; /* Version of interface to use (presently 0) */ unsigned long list; /* Which list of rules to get (presently 0) */ unsigned long cookie; /* Capability; filled in by the kernel. */ } Get a capability for getting a list of firewall rules from the kernel. IP_FW_GET_VALUE: struct ip_fw_get_value_struct { unsigned long cookie; /* Capability for getting data */ unsigned long field; /* Which field to get */ unsigned char data[92]; /* Data gotten from the kernel */ } Get the data for a field from the kernel. If we can't pass this structure to the kernel, we're in mucho, mucho trouble, and probably will need to connect the state of reading a list to a particular socket, which would be a pity. The size of the data read from the kernel is found by subtracting offsetof(struct ip_fw_get_value_struct,data) from the amount of data the kernel says it has written. IP_FW_GET_NEXT: struct { unsigned long cookie; /* Capability for reading operation in the kernel we're presently manipulating. */ } Proceed to next rule along a rule-list we're reading. IP_FW_GET_DONE: struct { unsigned long cookie; /* Capability for reading operation in the kernel we're presently manipulating. */ } Finish with the capability for a particular read operation. ------------------------------------------- Now, to make the userland side of this easy, I would like an access library: int ipfw_addrule( unsigned long list_number, unsigned long rule_number, ...); where ... is filled with option/value pairs, like in (long)IPFW_SRCADDR, &inaddr, (long)IPFW_PORT, 6667, (long)0 /* Termination */ For deletion, int ipfw_delrule( unsigned long list_number, unsigned long rule_number ); For getting lists: { unsigned long cookie; struct ip_fw rule; cookie = ipfw_getlist_start(0); /* List number */ if (!cookie) return; while (ipfw_getlist_entry(cookie, IPFW_SRCADDR, &rule.fw_src, IPFW_DSTADDR, &rule.fw_dst, IPFW_SRCMASK, &rule.fw_smsk, IPFW_DSTMASK, &rule.fw_dmsk, (long)0)) { ... do stuff ... } ipfw_getlist_done(cookie); } The data don't have to go into the old ip_fw struct, of course - that's just as an example. Well, what do you think? It covers our present needs, and as far as I can see our future needs - if we need single fields of more than 92 bytes we can always set them as several operations or change the interface by changing the version. It allow us to add entries to the data structures without killing old apps. It should be fairly easy to implement, and fairly easy for programmers to use, especially if we add the library. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 05:57:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25671 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25665 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA09733 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:57:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Awhile ago it was discussed about implimenting a VM type architecture on intel, and it was agreed that this would be very difficult because intel had decided that instead of throwing an illegal instruction exception for protected mode instructions that were not run as supervisor, it would simply reduce the instriction to NOOP. What are these instructions. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 06:36:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00172 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA00138 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00597; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:35:44 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA03213; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:35:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <9804231217.AA01806@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au.> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:35:43 +0200 From: Darren Reed To: Eivind Eklund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980423135332.35381@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Apr 23, 98 01:53:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: [...] > Well, what do you think? To me, it seems that it is effectively duplicating the BPF code, plus you'd have a much more flexible solution with BPF and less "extra code" in the kernel. Of course, maybe you don't want to write an ipfw rule -> BPF converter :) Plus, it only solves half of the problem - structure size changing but not capabilities. If you ever remove a capability, the filter rules could be screwed. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 06:37:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00301 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA00263 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00648 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:36:41 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA03232; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:36:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980423144259.57155@follo.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:36:41 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <9804231217.AA01806@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au.>; from darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au on Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 10:12:54PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 10:12:54PM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > [...] > > Well, what do you think? > > To me, it seems that it is effectively duplicating the BPF code, I don't understand why you see this change as really related to BPF. This is _not_ in any way duplicating BPF - this is just another way of passing the IPFW rules over the userland/kernel boundary. You could of course do most pure filtering using BPF instead of having IPFW and ipfilter at all; I'd say that's a different discussion. > plus you'd have a much more flexible solution with BPF and less > "extra code" in the kernel. Depending on how generic you want the outlined interface to be. It can be kept at the 'least generic level' as it is now, or propagated upward to be a gate for interfaces for all programs presently dependent on kernel-only structures (ps et. al). > Of course, maybe you don't want to write an ipfw rule -> BPF > converter :) Actually, something like this is on my long-term TODO-list (but it is impossible to say when I'll get around to it - probably not before 3.0, at least). However, BPF is not a convenient form for modification, and there need to be an interface to make it possible to modify rule lists. The above proposal is to modify the rule lists, which can then be converted to whatever internal form is convenient for optimal rules-processing (and there are a lot of options here, as you certainly know). > Plus, it only solves half of the problem - structure size changing > but not capabilities. If you ever remove a capability, the filter > rules could be screwed. There is no way of addressing capability removal short of propagating them to the user when they apply, and letting the user handle them. This is what the proposed interface do. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 07:33:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06329 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06295 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804231433.HAA06295@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA146572026; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:33:46 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:33:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980423144259.57155@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Apr 23, 98 03:36:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Eivind Eklund, sie said: > On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 10:12:54PM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > [...] > > > Well, what do you think? > > > > To me, it seems that it is effectively duplicating the BPF code, > > I don't understand why you see this change as really related to BPF. > This is _not_ in any way duplicating BPF - this is just another way of > passing the IPFW rules over the userland/kernel boundary. Well, to me, it looks like you're using a system call to tell IPFW in what order to examine X bytes, and making up a filter of a sequence of these commands, rather than giving it a complete rule. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 07:42:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07795 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07772 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03671; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:42:18 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA03505; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:42:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980423164217.62057@follo.net> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:42:17 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Darren Reed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: changing ipfw interface (was Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_fw.c) References: <19980423144259.57155@follo.net> <199804231432.OAA03248@ns1.yes.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804231432.OAA03248@ns1.yes.no>; from Darren Reed on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 12:33:46AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 12:33:46AM +1000, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Eivind Eklund, sie said: > > On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 10:12:54PM +1000, darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au wrote: > > > In some email I received from Eivind Eklund, sie wrote: > > > [...] > > > > Well, what do you think? > > > > > > To me, it seems that it is effectively duplicating the BPF code, > > > > I don't understand why you see this change as really related to BPF. > > This is _not_ in any way duplicating BPF - this is just another way of > > passing the IPFW rules over the userland/kernel boundary. > > Well, to me, it looks like you're using a system call to tell IPFW in what > order to examine X bytes, and making up a filter of a sequence of these > commands, rather than giving it a complete rule. Ah - no. The way this is intended to work is 1. Create a rule in the kernel, of the default type (probably a deny rule matching 0.0.0.0/0 in both directions). The ID for this rule is passed back to the userland. 2. The userland does one or more calls to the kernel to modify the rule just created - e.g, 'match source address 192.168.1.14', 'match source port 53', 'match UDP', 'set to allow'. 3. The userland process 'commits' the finished rule. Basically, instead of building a full IPFW rule structure in userland and passing it over the userland/kernel boundary in one piece, each field of the structure is passed over the boundary tagged as being that field, and the structure is assembled in the kernel. Fields not included in the list of tagged fields are left as their default values. Am I making myself clear here? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 07:43:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from altos.rnd.runnet.ru (root@altos.rnd.runnet.ru [195.208.248.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07680 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@rnd.runnet.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by altos.rnd.runnet.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06547; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:40:02 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:40:02 +0400 (MSD) From: Maxim Bolotin To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199804222001.NAA00389@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-731731238-893342402=:29546" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-731731238-893342402=:29546 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Hi! > > G'day Max! > > > As I write year ago, We have driver for IBM EtherJet ethernet card. > > It's cs8920M chip based card. TP only. We have 70 computers with > > FreeBSD 2.2.5, work 1 year. I make some style changes of code, and > > I want commite it. What have I to do it. > > I looked at your driver last year, and made some suggestions then, but > never heard back from you. If your driver is available somewhere for > FTP, I'll do the same again. I think I should be able to obtain one of > these cards for testing as well, and once we're both happy, I'll arrange > for it to be committed. Hi! We made some perfomance improvement, add multicast. All this cards work 6 days per week, 1 year, 12 may 1997 - current. It's NFS/NIS client computers. We've to location, 48 and 22 computers. For me fork OK. Max. - Rostov State University Computer Center Rostov-on-Don, +7 (8632) 285794 or 357476 Russia, RUNNet, MAB1-RIPE max@rsu.ru --0-731731238-893342402=:29546 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="if_csreg.h" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: /sys/i386/isa/if_csreg.h LyoNCiAqIENvcHlyaWdodCAoYykgMTk5NywxOTk4IE1heGltIEJvbG90aW4g YW5kIE9sZWcgU2hhcm9pa28uDQogKiBBbGwgcmlnaHRzIHJlc2VydmVkLg0K ICoNCiAqIFJlZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIGFuZCB1c2UgaW4gc291cmNlIGFuZCBi aW5hcnkgZm9ybXMsIHdpdGggb3Igd2l0aG91dA0KICogbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9u LCBhcmUgcGVybWl0dGVkIHByb3ZpZGVkIHRoYXQgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBj b25kaXRpb25zDQogKiBhcmUgbWV0Og0KICogMS4gUmVkaXN0cmlidXRpb25z IG9mIHNvdXJjZSBjb2RlIG11c3QgcmV0YWluIHRoZSBhYm92ZSBjb3B5cmln aHQNCiAqICAgIG5vdGljZSB1bm1vZGlmaWVkLCB0aGlzIGxpc3Qgb2YgY29u ZGl0aW9ucywgYW5kIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcNCiAqICAgIGRpc2NsYWltZXIu DQogKiAyLiBSZWRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbnMgaW4gYmluYXJ5IGZvcm0gbXVzdCBy ZXByb2R1Y2UgdGhlIGFib3ZlIGNvcHlyaWdodA0KICogICAgbm90aWNlLCB0 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mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 08:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14588 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16053; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:20:43 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:20:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i'm seriously doubtful of this. i think intels throw instr fault exceptions when stuff like that is executed. -Alfred On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > Awhile ago it was discussed about implimenting a VM type architecture on > intel, and it was agreed that this would be very difficult because intel > had decided that instead of throwing an illegal instruction exception for > protected mode instructions that were not run as supervisor, it would > simply reduce the instriction to NOOP. What are these instructions. > > -- > David Cross > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 08:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16420 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11589; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:25:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:25:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: Alfred Perlstein cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > i'm seriously doubtful of this. i think intels throw instr fault > exceptions when stuff like that is executed. > > -Alfred > > On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > > > Awhile ago it was discussed about implimenting a VM type architecture on > > intel, and it was agreed that this would be very difficult because intel > > had decided that instead of throwing an illegal instruction exception for > > protected mode instructions that were not run as supervisor, it would > > simply reduce the instriction to NOOP. What are these instructions. > > Heh, I just read my own post... it was not *all* protected mode instructions, but *some* of them. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 08:39:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19435 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19400 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:39:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16797; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:39:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id KAA04582; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <19980423103837.32719@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:38:37 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from David E. Cross on Apr 04, 1998 at 11:25:05AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 04, 1998 at 11:25:05AM -0400, David E. Cross wrote: > On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > i'm seriously doubtful of this. i think intels throw instr fault > > exceptions when stuff like that is executed. > > > > -Alfred > > > > On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > > > > > Awhile ago it was discussed about implimenting a VM type architecture on > > > intel, and it was agreed that this would be very difficult because intel > > > had decided that instead of throwing an illegal instruction exception for > > > protected mode instructions that were not run as supervisor, it would > > > simply reduce the instriction to NOOP. What are these instructions. > > > > > Heh, I just read my own post... it was not *all* protected mode > instructions, but *some* of them. AFAIK, all privileged instructions, when executed in a non-supervisor context, generate an exception of some sort. This applies to the sti, cli, popfl, I/O family of instructions, as well as those insns which diddle with the control registers. What VM type architecture were you referring to? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 09:21:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29888 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.65] by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0ySOkS-0007W5-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:21:20 -0700 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA16523; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:19:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: VM architecture (was Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop.) To: Jonathan Lemon cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980423103837.32719@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What VM type architecture were you referring to? >From the context, I assumed that he was reffering to IBM's mainframe system. (Originally VM/370 IIRC.) It is a smallish OK kernel that simple provides multiple virtual machines that run other OSes. (Or other copies of itself. Back in the late 70s the recursion depth was around five or six before something failed.) The sub-OSes had access to real or virtual disks, virtual card readers, card punches, and printers, terminals, etc. The basic mechanism is to run the sub-OSes without kernel privilege and to trap on Priveleged Instruction exceptions. The instruction, registers, and memory would then be examined and the requested operation translated as necessary and performed. Or the exception would be passed back up to the client OS, as appropriate. There was also a mechanism, using a privileged diagnostic instruction, for a VM-aware OS to directly request the services of the VM kernel. CMS was the user interface to VM. It was an OS that actually required VM underneath since it didn't attempt to perform any of the functions that VM could provide for it. The standard mode of operation had each on-line user in a separate virtual machine running their own copy of CMS. There was also usually one copy of DOS (no, not much like PC-DOS), OS1, or OS2 (no, not OS/2) running batch jobs in it's own virtual machine. OS1 and OS2 could be configured to know that they were running under VM and delegate some of their operations for better system-wide efficiency. (One of the standard techniques was to tell OS1 that it had a full complement of physical memory and that it shouldn't page. This was a big win even when it was the only thing running on a VM system because VM's paging algorythms were better than OS1's.) -Pat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 09:33:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03815 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03753 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12612; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "David E. Cross" To: Jonathan Lemon cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. In-Reply-To: <19980423103837.32719@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > AFAIK, all privileged instructions, when executed in a non-supervisor > context, generate an exception of some sort. This applies to the > sti, cli, popfl, I/O family of instructions, as well as those insns > which diddle with the control registers. > > What VM type architecture were you referring to? I am referring to IBM's VM operating system. and here is the original message from -hackers from nov-1997: From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virtual Intel Machines? On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > In the land of IBM mainframes, there's an operating system (of > sorts) called VM. This is an operating system which lets you run > multiple operating systems on a single machine, at the same time. > VM can allocate devices between the running systems, so that one > running OS sees a given hard disk (for example), but no other > operating systems can possibly get to that hard disk. > > What I was wondering is if something similar could be done with > Intel-ish chips? I realize this wouldn't be a trivial thing to > write, but it'd be mighty convenient to have in some circumstances > (at least in an academic setting). Not in the strictest sense, because Intel, in their infinite wisdom, decided that certain privledged instructions, if executed in an unprivledged state, would not trap, but rather reduce to a NOP. Hence, the VM equiv can't trap the OS's attempt to do this, and make it happen, given appropriate permissions. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 14:44:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01182 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu (cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01138 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fwang2@eos.ncsu.edu) Received: from eos.ncsu.edu (c00373-247dan.eos.ncsu.edu [152.1.21.33]) by cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.4/US19Dec96) with ESMTP id RAA01530 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353FB60B.11DA169C@eos.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:43:40 -0400 From: Feiyi Wang Organization: North Carolina State University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Divert socket and multicast packet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, all I have some problems to make divert socket working with multicast. Basically, if I don't have ipfw rules and divert function, one of my multicast application works fine. If I enable divert socket and read the outgoing multicast packet and write it back WITHOUT any change, I can't see the packet going out on the wire. Is there anybody aware what the problem is? or did I miss anything here? BTW - I tried MROUTING option, it doesn't help. Any input is appreciated. /Feiyi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 23 23:24:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00887 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16013; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015967; Thu Apr 23 23:23:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA07872; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:22:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804240622.XAA07872@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. To: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:22:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David E. Cross" at Apr 23, 98 12:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What VM type architecture were you referring to? > > I am referring to IBM's VM operating system. and here is the original > message from -hackers from nov-1997: Look into "Protected mode software architecture" from MindShare. The general problem is not that Intel does not allow this, but that implementing a VMM (Virtual Machine Manager) is not trivial. One big piece of windows 95 is the VMM. The other big problem is that the emulated machines lack simultanaeity; this is mostly because some of the instructions are very, very hard to emulate. If you look at the BOCHS code, you will see that it's perfectly possible to implement a VM on Intel. BOCHS doesn't use the native instructions that it can, and it doesn't use a kernel assist in the person of the "VM" bit in control register 4 on 486 and above chips. This makes BOCHS slower than it absolutely has to be, but it also makes it run on non-Intel machines. It would probably be worth implementing a full-on VMM (in the MindShare documented sense), if only to allow running of MS Os's in a window on FreeBSD. The IBM VM architecture is logically complete -- that is, nearly all of the instruction emulation implementation is in hardware, so a VMM is (relatively) *much* lighter weight. I had the opportunity to use VM/CMS and VM/UTS (I was writing an IBM3101 block mode terminal emulator for UNIX) back in the mid 80's, and I was impressed that their performance nearly equalled unemulated hardware. IBM is technically competent in most regards (brilliant in some, which is surprising; management tends to fear brilliant things). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 01:40:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23496 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.delta.edu (alpha.delta.edu [161.133.129.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA23486 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:40:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dakott@alpha.delta.edu) Received: from pm343-30.dialip.mich.net by alpha.delta.edu; (5.65v3.0/1.1.8.2/06Jan97-0932AM) id AA28537; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:43:37 -0400 Received: from kott.my.domain (dakott@kott.my.domain [192.168.0.1]) by kott.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17716; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: David Kott To: dmorrisn@u.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [...] [Fwd: panic: page , fault (Is my memory going bad?) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >When I booted up my machine this morning I got a kernel panic right >after logging in. It gave the output below. After I rebooted, it's run >fine ever since. I do mount my filesystems async, but I always shut the >system down properly(--it couldn't be that could it?) > >Fatal Trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0x400 >fault code = supervisor read, page not present >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010f2dc >stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbffbf0 Have you recently rebuilt your kernel? Did you rebuild your LKMs? I used to get something similar to this, though the details escape me. Now, as a rule, whenever I rebuild my kernel, I rebuild the LKM's I use. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 01:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24364 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id KAA26529; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:44:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:44:45 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu (David E. Cross), jlemon@americantv.com, perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Protected mode instructions which reduce to noop. References: <199804240622.XAA07872@usr09.primenet.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse / KRST / PUMS / YASMW X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 24 Apr 1998 10:44:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:22:59 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > nearly equalled unemulated hardware. IBM is technically competent in > most regards (brilliant in some, which is surprising; management tends to > fear brilliant things). Hear hear. They don't, however, have *any* sense of marketing. (Somebody once told me that when they saw OS/2 Warp ads on TV, they felt an inexplicable urge to drink Sprite) But I'm going off-topic... Followup set to chat. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 02:01:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28033 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28007 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA00651 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:05:31 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:05:31 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199804240905.LAA00651@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: login.conf inheritance of parms Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is xuser in login.conf but giving xuser login class to users has no effect when the xdm prompter login method is chosen. The user inherits the parameters of login class daemon. Any way around this (other than increasing the daemon parameters). We have 'power' X users who are subsuming a lot of resources -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 02:10:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29550 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14926; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: login.conf inheritance of parms In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:05:31 +0200." <199804240905.LAA00651@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:09:36 -0700 Message-ID: <14923.893408976@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There is xuser in login.conf but giving xuser login class to > users has no effect when the xdm prompter login method is chosen. Are you using 3.3.2 xdm or 3.3.1? The version in XFree86 3.3.2 should have, I believe, fuller support for login classes. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 02:21:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02521 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02516 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:21:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA00731; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:25:20 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Message-ID: <19980424112520.56852@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:25:20 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: login.conf inheritance of parms References: <199804240905.LAA00651@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <14923.893408976@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <14923.893408976@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 02:09:36AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 02:09:36AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > There is xuser in login.conf but giving xuser login class to > > users has no effect when the xdm prompter login method is chosen. > > Are you using 3.3.2 xdm or 3.3.1? The version in XFree86 3.3.2 > should have, I believe, fuller support for login classes. Hmm. Cannot tell right now but I will check. Thanks. > > Jordan -- --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 04:19:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19885 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19872 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 04:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA01082 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:23:36 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:23:36 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199804241123.NAA01082@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: freebsd-kde - create one Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I vote for creating a FreeBSD kde group. -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 05:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kaori.communique.net (kaori.communique.net [204.27.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26202; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rzig@verio.net) Received: by kaori.communique.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:33:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: Raul Zighelboim To: "'fs@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: fsck rc and login.conf Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:33:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello there; When I rebooting my system, rc runs fsck. At one point, it complains that the user daemon does not have enough resources to do an fsck on my large filesystem (30 Gbytes). The error I get is: Cannot alloc 3317710 bytes for blockmap Cannot check file system So, I edited /etc/login.conf to set maxmemsize to 64K (from 32K) and rebuilt te db with no success. I set up user daemon on Class daemon, with no success. I edited /etc/rc and added 'ulimit -m 65355' at the begining of the file, with no success. The questio: what am I missing ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 08:01:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from klokan.sh.cvut.cz (root@klokan.sh.cvut.cz [193.84.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14593 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:00:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from J.Klaus@sh.cvut.cz) Received: from skunk.sh.cvut.cz (skunk.sh.cvut.cz [194.108.141.194]) by klokan.sh.cvut.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8/Silicon Hill/Antispam/29.3.1998) with ESMTP id QAA15182; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:58:21 +0200 Received: from SKUNK/SpoolDir by skunk.sh.cvut.cz (Mercury 1.31); 24 Apr 98 16:58:26 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SKUNK (Mercury 1.31); 24 Apr 98 16:57:55 +0200 Received: from hell.sh.cvut.cz by skunk.sh.cvut.cz (Mercury 1.31); 24 Apr 98 16:57:54 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:57:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Jaroslav Klaus X-Sender: klausik@hell.sh.cvut.cz To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: freebsd-gnome (Was: freebsd-kde - create one) In-Reply-To: <199804241123.NAA01082@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > I vote for creating a FreeBSD kde group. And what about Freebsd Gnome group? :-) Jarda Klaus PS: I think it should be in freebsd-ports, shouldn't be? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 08:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20791 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20509 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:36:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (dmorrisn@D-128-95-141-142.dhcp.washington.edu [128.95.141.142]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with ESMTP id IAA18335; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:36:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3540B207.D0F65569@u.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:38:48 -0700 From: Don Morrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kott CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [...] [Fwd: panic: page , fault (Is my memory going bad?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have you recently rebuilt your kernel? Did you rebuild your LKMs? I used > to get something similar to this, though the details escape me. Now, as a > rule, whenever I rebuild my kernel, I rebuild the LKM's I use. > I had done a 'make world' (actually, buildworld then installworld) and rebuilt the kernel about two weeks before. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 09:00:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA24923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24711 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA01780; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:04:13 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Message-ID: <19980424180413.05235@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:04:13 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Jaroslav Klaus Cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: freebsd-gnome (Was: freebsd-kde - create one) References: <199804241123.NAA01082@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Jaroslav Klaus on Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 04:57:58PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 04:57:58PM +0200, Jaroslav Klaus wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > I vote for creating a FreeBSD kde group. > > And what about Freebsd Gnome group? :-) > > Jarda Klaus > > PS: I think it should be in freebsd-ports, shouldn't be? That would swamp -ports with kde specific stuff soon, I think. KDE is too peculiar since it's not just a port. It's a way UNIX could survive (overemphasized speaking). And there are already little pinguins around everywhere :-). -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 10:45:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA10533; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0ySm8C-0002i9-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:19:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:19:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Raul Zighelboim cc: "'fs@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: fsck rc and login.conf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Raul Zighelboim wrote: > I edited /etc/login.conf to set maxmemsize to 64K (from 32K) and > rebuilt te db with no success. On which class did you make this change? You must change the daemon class. init changes to class daemon before starting the rc* stuff. > I set up user daemon on Class daemon, with no success. This doesn't do anything. I'm not sure why you'd think so... > I edited /etc/rc and added 'ulimit -m 65355' at the begining of > the file, with no success. This can't do anything as ulimit will only increae the soft limit up the hard limit. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 11:39:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26627; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00917; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804241836.LAA00917@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Raul Zighelboim cc: "'fs@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: fsck rc and login.conf In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:33:39 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:36:21 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hello there; > > When I rebooting my system, rc runs fsck. At one point, it complains > that the user daemon does not have enough resources to do an fsck on my > large filesystem (30 Gbytes). The error I get is: > > Cannot alloc 3317710 bytes for blockmap > Cannot check file system > > So, > I edited /etc/login.conf to set maxmemsize to 64K (from 32K) and > rebuilt te db with no success. > I set up user daemon on Class daemon, with no success. > I edited /etc/rc and added 'ulimit -m 65355' at the begining of > the file, with no success. > > The questio: what am I missing ? Update /etc/login.conf to the latest version for your system (either -stable or -current). You can get this from eg. ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/src/etc/login.conf -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 12:05:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03421 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA28739; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:04:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:04:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: login.conf inheritance of parms In-Reply-To: <14923.893408976@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > There is xuser in login.conf but giving xuser login class to > > users has no effect when the xdm prompter login method is chosen. > > Are you using 3.3.2 xdm or 3.3.1? The version in XFree86 3.3.2 > should have, I believe, fuller support for login classes. I support login classes? > > Jordan Don't mind me, just a little manic today. :-} MAtt (.sig sym-linked to /dev/null) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 24 22:38:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:38:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-78.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10871 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA07411; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:38:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:38:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Jaroslav Klaus , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: freebsd-gnome (Was: freebsd-kde - create one) In-Reply-To: <19980424180413.05235@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 04:57:58PM +0200, Jaroslav Klaus wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > > > > I vote for creating a FreeBSD kde group. > > > > And what about Freebsd Gnome group? :-) > > > > Jarda Klaus > > > > PS: I think it should be in freebsd-ports, shouldn't be? > > That would swamp -ports with kde specific stuff soon, I think. > KDE is too peculiar since it's not just a port. It's a way UNIX could > survive (overemphasized speaking). And there are already little > pinguins around everywhere :-). There are also KDE (not FreeBSD) specific lists out there too that are pretty helpful. Or perhaps its time for a freebsd-desktop list. - alex "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 01:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25383 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25377 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA28916 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 04:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 04:17:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Context switch time Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I was wondering what the average context switch time across a syscall invocation is, also, how long it takes to switch in a different process. Presumably just on a Pentium 100ish processor. Is this data I can retrieve from the kernel profiler? mi_switch and tsleep both appear in the profiling data, but it is not clear to me that this includes the time for the switch to kernel context, etc. Thanks, Robert N Watson ---- Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ Trusted Information Systems http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 01:56:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28948 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07440; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:56:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804250856.DAA07440@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Context switch time In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Apr 25, 98 04:17:45 am" To: robert@cyrus.watson.org Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:56:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi, > > I was wondering what the average context switch time across a syscall > invocation is, also, how long it takes to switch in a different process. > Presumably just on a Pentium 100ish processor. Is this data I can > retrieve from the kernel profiler? mi_switch and tsleep both appear in > the profiling data, but it is not clear to me that this includes the time > for the switch to kernel context, etc. > > Thanks, > > Robert N Watson > For a first start, try lat_ctx from lmbench. I believe that it does a token passing scheme with pipes, so it won't tell you exactly what you want, but might be ballpark. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 03:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10082 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from d183-205.uoregon.edu (d183-205.uoregon.edu [128.223.183.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10074 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by d183-205.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02866; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980425034313.55993@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:43:13 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Context switch time References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Robert Watson on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 04:17:45AM -0400 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson scribbled this message on Apr 25: > I was wondering what the average context switch time across a syscall > invocation is, also, how long it takes to switch in a different process. > Presumably just on a Pentium 100ish processor. Is this data I can > retrieve from the kernel profiler? mi_switch and tsleep both appear in > the profiling data, but it is not clear to me that this includes the time > for the switch to kernel context, etc. one thing you might try is to run something like a process that just does a yield syscall (-current box) repeatedly... I was getting about 111k syscalls/sec from a program on my k6/225... (systat couldn't display numbers greater than 5 sig figs, so I had to use vmstat :) ) as far as context switching goes... that is a difficult subject... Stanford did a paper comparing a few os's on context switch time and found that Linux was able to get about 10ms switch time, but this assumed that you had only a couple active processes... as soon as you went above 10 active processes the context switch time grew to be >100ms, while FreeBSD pretty much maintained a steady 100ms switch time for even 1k processes, while linux grew to >700ms... (these numbers are from the top of my head) it looks like the paper can still be found at http://mosquitonet.stanford.edu/~laik/benchmarks/paper/talk.ps for the actual graphs... these tests were done on P133 machines IIRC... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem Rev/FAX: +1 541 346 9237 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 05:06:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17253 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id FAA02664 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd002662; Sat Apr 25 05:06:23 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id FAA24170 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199804251206.FAA24170@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Tips needed about dynamic device registering To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I need some tips how I should go ahead and register dynamic on boot time disk drive device, simular like "device sd0". The raid controller I am working on can have up to 32 "drives", which have mainly a read block and a write block function. DEVFS would probably one way, but I am also interested in doing it without DEVFS. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 05:51:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (toshok@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21303 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toshok@Hungry.COM) Received: (from toshok@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id FAA27124; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:51:34 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: threads performance From: Christoph Toshok Date: 25 Apr 1998 05:51:33 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm working on japhar (the hungry java vm) and I'm primarily using freebsd for my work. One of the central "features" of japhar is that it uses platform's thread library -- pthreads on freebsd and linux, cthreads on nextstep and the hurd. On freebsd the performance is just abysmal. Really, it's *awful*. Just for kicks, I ported the thread api to NSPR (Netscape's Portable Runtime) and the runtime for javac compiling a trivial .java file drops from 39 seconds to 18 seconds. Are there any plans to address the performance of threads in the coming weeks/months? The fact that NSPR can drop 21 seconds off the runtime (in this very contrived example) makes me think that there is a lot going on in libc_r that is suboptimal, but perhaps there is just no other way to implement things so they conform to the posix spec. I realize kernel threads (a la clone()) are on the horizon, but there's a lot to be said for making a lightweight user level thread package, and making it fast. christoph To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 06:12:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA23265 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.artcom.de ([192.76.129.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23260 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@artcom.de) Received: from transrapid.artcom.de by mail.artcom.de with smtp id m0yT4jh-00000rC; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:11:21 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:11:21 +0200 (MEST) From: Hans Huebner To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello there, we're running some of our critial LAN services (NIS, DNS, mail etc.) on FreeBSD. The systems are quite stable, but from time to time we need to take a system down for maintenance purposes. Also, hardware problems can cause unplanned down times. I'm currently looking for a solution to configure a PC as a warm-standby fallback server for the most important services (NIS and DNS). To make a failover to the fallback server as transparent to the users as possible, it would be best if the fallback system could take over the ethernet address of the failed server. I've seen this work with certain (expensive) Solaris configurations, and I'd like to do something similar with FreeBSD. I tried to implement DNS failover by moving our name service IP address to another machine, but this resulted in severe client problems (most clients fail to renegotiate the MAC adress with ARP within finite time). Looking at the ifconfig manpage, I could not find a general way to set a Ethernet card's MAC address. Is there a documented solution to this problem? If not, would adding such functionality be problematic? Any pointers, hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'd also be interested in any reports on running two FreeBSD systems on one shared SCSI bus. I suppose the disk driver would need to be changed quite a bit to make use of the RESERVE UNIT SCSI command to prevent access collisions. Thanks, Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 07:41:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29030 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29018 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08022; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:42:56 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:42:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Hans Huebner cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG a combination of MX records (DNS), proper NIS slave servers and DNS secondaries should take care of your problem. Afaik, the MAC level address is burnt into the card. there is also a way of using DNS to round robin IP addresses, i _think_ you can define multiple PTR records and if one IP "times out" the resolver library tries the next IP in the list of PTRs. I've only heard of this, you'd have to look into the implementation. All the services you talk about offer thier own versions of redundancy, you need to read more about the features offered by DNS and NIS and thier slave system capabilities. -Alfred On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Hans Huebner wrote: > Hello there, > > we're running some of our critial LAN services (NIS, DNS, mail etc.) on > FreeBSD. The systems are quite stable, but from time to time we need to > take a system down for maintenance purposes. Also, hardware problems can > cause unplanned down times. > > I'm currently looking for a solution to configure a PC as a warm-standby > fallback server for the most important services (NIS and DNS). To make a > failover to the fallback server as transparent to the users as possible, > it would be best if the fallback system could take over the ethernet > address of the failed server. I've seen this work with certain > (expensive) Solaris configurations, and I'd like to do something similar > with FreeBSD. > > I tried to implement DNS failover by moving our name service IP address to > another machine, but this resulted in severe client problems (most clients > fail to renegotiate the MAC adress with ARP within finite time). > > Looking at the ifconfig manpage, I could not find a general way to set a > Ethernet card's MAC address. Is there a documented solution to this > problem? If not, would adding such functionality be problematic? > > Any pointers, hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'd also be > interested in any reports on running two FreeBSD systems on one shared > SCSI bus. I suppose the disk driver would need to be changed quite a bit > to make use of the RESERVE UNIT SCSI command to prevent access collisions. > > Thanks, > Hans > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 07:55:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01577 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01567 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:55:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbackus@plex.nl) Received: from annex2s2.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.84] by kweetal.tue.nl (8.8.8) for id QAA00502 (ESMTP). Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:54:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 338 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Apr 1998 14:48:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19980426164811.A323@mp-c.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:48:11 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NO{_}SENDMAIL macro Reply-To: Jos Backus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it NOSENDMAIL (src/etc/make.conf) or NO_SENDMAIL (src/usr/sbin/Makefile)? Cheers, -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@plex.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 08:21:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03399 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03355 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbackus@plex.nl) Received: from annex2s2.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.84] by kweetal.tue.nl (8.8.8) for id RAA01291 (ESMTP). Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:20:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 430 invoked by uid 1000); 26 Apr 1998 15:23:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19980426172357.B323@mp-c.com> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:23:57 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NO{_}SENDMAIL macro Reply-To: Jos Backus References: <19980426164811.A323@mp-c.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980426164811.A323@mp-c.com>; from Jos Backus on Sun, Apr 26, 1998 at 04:48:11PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Typo police. Grr.] Is it NOSENDMAIL (src/etc/make.conf) or NO_SENDMAIL (src/usr.sbin/Makefile)? -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jbackus@plex.nl _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 08:45:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07862 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07817 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199804251544.IAA07817@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA156559137; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:45:37 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover To: perlsta@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:45:36 +1000 (EST) Cc: hans@artcom.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at Apr 25, 98 09:42:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Alfred Perlstein, sie said: > > a combination of MX records (DNS), proper NIS slave servers and DNS > secondaries should take care of your problem. Afaik, the MAC level > address is burnt into the card. At least on Sun's you can "ifconfig le0 ether a:b:c:d:e:f". Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 09:31:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12636 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12625 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03931; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:31:20 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA10578; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:31:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980425183120.29137@follo.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:31:20 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Hans Huebner , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Hans Huebner on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 03:11:21PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 03:11:21PM +0200, Hans Huebner wrote: > Any pointers, hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'd also be > interested in any reports on running two FreeBSD systems on one shared > SCSI bus. I suppose the disk driver would need to be changed quite a bit > to make use of the RESERVE UNIT SCSI command to prevent access collisions. Simon Shapiro has written code to do this for the DPT, specifically to enable FreeBSD to do HA. I've got the code here for commit, but need to do some re-writes for the splXX() use (at the suggestion of Bruce). Now it looks like I won't get time for it this weekend, either; I have to help fix up somebody else's botch at work :-( Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 10:46:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:46:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.artcom.de ([192.76.129.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21727 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@artcom.de) Received: from transrapid.artcom.de by mail.artcom.de with smtp id m0yT91q-00000nC; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:46:22 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:46:21 +0200 (MEST) From: Hans Huebner To: Eivind Eklund cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-Reply-To: <19980425183120.29137@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind, thanks for your reply. I'll have a look at the DPT driver in a few weeks. -Hans On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 03:11:21PM +0200, Hans Huebner wrote: > > Any pointers, hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'd also be > > interested in any reports on running two FreeBSD systems on one shared > > SCSI bus. I suppose the disk driver would need to be changed quite a bit > > to make use of the RESERVE UNIT SCSI command to prevent access collisions. > > Simon Shapiro has written code to do this > for the DPT, specifically to enable FreeBSD to do HA. > > I've got the code here for commit, but need to do some re-writes for > the splXX() use (at the suggestion of Bruce). > > Now it looks like I won't get time for it this weekend, either; I have > to help fix up somebody else's botch at work :-( > > Eivind. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 10:55:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23335 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11694; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:54:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199804251754.MAA11694@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: threads performance In-Reply-To: from Christoph Toshok at "Apr 25, 98 05:51:33 am" To: toshok@Hungry.COM (Christoph Toshok) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:54:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm working on japhar (the hungry java vm) and I'm primarily using > freebsd for my work. One of the central "features" of japhar is that > it uses platform's thread library -- pthreads on freebsd and linux, > cthreads on nextstep and the hurd. > > On freebsd the performance is just abysmal. Really, it's *awful*. > Just for kicks, I ported the thread api to NSPR (Netscape's Portable > Runtime) and the runtime for javac compiling a trivial .java file > drops from 39 seconds to 18 seconds. > > Are there any plans to address the performance of threads in the > coming weeks/months? The fact that NSPR can drop 21 seconds off the > runtime (in this very contrived example) makes me think that there is > a lot going on in libc_r that is suboptimal, but perhaps there is just > no other way to implement things so they conform to the posix spec. > > I realize kernel threads (a la clone()) are on the horizon, but > there's a lot to be said for making a lightweight user level thread > package, and making it fast. > The issue of kernel threads is on my plate, I have been *ordered* (not in a demanding fashion, but they are my reason for existance at work for awhile. We will also be porting the essence of the work to NetBSD -- NetBSD can take 'em or leave 'em if they want, but we are adding the code to our private NetBSD tree at work.) to do them this week for work (got sick again, so thought I would flamewar instead, since my higher order functions were totally gone :-)). I hope that John Birrell will forgive me, about my delays. :-). John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 12:09:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00462 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:09:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00411 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03683; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "John S. Dyson" cc: toshok@Hungry.COM (Christoph Toshok), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:54:50 CDT." <199804251754.MAA11694@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3679.893531204@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The issue of kernel threads is on my plate, I have been *ordered* I think he was still wanting to know (and I'm darn curious myself) why our *user* threads are so slow in comparison to the user thread packages on other platforms. I'm not saying kernel threads aren't neat or needed, I'm just wondering what specific performance bogon we're suffering from in userland which makes it so? Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 12:16:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02262 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles358.castles.com [208.214.167.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02240 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00572; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804251913.MAA00572@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Hans Huebner cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:11:21 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:13:57 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Looking at the ifconfig manpage, I could not find a general way to set a > Ethernet card's MAC address. Is there a documented solution to this > problem? If not, would adding such functionality be problematic? Many network adapters sold into the PC market do not allow the MAC address to be changed from the factory-assigned value. Because of this, FreeBSD does not offer the facility to change the address (as it wouldn't be a general solution). In your case, if you know the adapter(s) you're using, you could add code to allow the change to be made. This would involve implementing the SIOCGIFHWADDR and SIOCSIFHWADDR (get/set hardware address) socket ioctls, which would be relatively simple. You could also obtain such work from a FreeBSD consultant for a very reasonable sum, if you were willing to supply one of each of the adapters you intended to use. > Any pointers, hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'd also be > interested in any reports on running two FreeBSD systems on one shared > SCSI bus. I suppose the disk driver would need to be changed quite a bit > to make use of the RESERVE UNIT SCSI command to prevent access collisions. None of the filesystems supported by FreeBSD are suited to multiple consumers, so I'm not sure what you would hope to gain from such a thing. If your intention was to be able to swap the disk set to the replacement server, you'd be better off with a SCSI switch. FreeBSD systems don't tend to take very long to come up when suitably configured, so you could well just shut the primary server down, flip the SCSI switch and then hit enter at the boot: prompt on your warm spare. As others have suggested, though, all of the services that you've described already support redundant servers. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 12:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles358.castles.com [208.214.167.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02979 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00605; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804251917.MAA00605@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tips needed about dynamic device registering In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 05:06:19 PDT." <199804251206.FAA24170@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:17:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I need some tips how I should go ahead and register dynamic on boot time > disk drive device, simular like "device sd0". The raid controller I am > working on can have up to 32 "drives", which have mainly a read block > and a write block function. Just do it like 'sd' does. You'll still require precreated /dev nodes. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 12:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03043 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles358.castles.com [208.214.167.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02980 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00591; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804251916.MAA00591@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "John S. Dyson" , toshok@Hungry.COM (Christoph Toshok), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:06:44 PDT." <3679.893531204@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:16:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The issue of kernel threads is on my plate, I have been *ordered* > > I think he was still wanting to know (and I'm darn curious myself) > why our *user* threads are so slow in comparison to the user thread > packages on other platforms. I'm not saying kernel threads aren't > neat or needed, I'm just wondering what specific performance bogon > we're suffering from in userland which makes it so? As was pointed out at the SFBUG, at least one of the problems is the number of signal mask manipulation system calls that take place. Why this hurts so much be comparison to other platforms (which supposedly also do this) is another question entirely. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 13:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.artcom.de ([192.76.129.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13936 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@artcom.de) Received: by mail.artcom.de id m0yTBkb-00000nC; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:40:45 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:40:45 +0200 (MEST) From: hans@artcom.de (Hans Huebner) To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover Newsgroups: artcom.mailing-list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199804251913.MAA00572@antipodes.cdrom.com> Organization: Art+Com GmbH, Berlin, Germany Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Mike, In article <199804251913.MAA00572@antipodes.cdrom.com> you write: >None of the filesystems supported by FreeBSD are suited to multiple >consumers, so I'm not sure what you would hope to gain from such a >thing. If your intention was to be able to swap the disk set to the >replacement server, you'd be better off with a SCSI switch. A common bus would minimize the downtime of a HA pair. Also, such a mechanism could allow for easy sharing of removeable media drives. > FreeBSD >systems don't tend to take very long to come up when suitably configured, ... and orderly shut down. >so you could well just shut the primary server down, flip the SCSI >switch and then hit enter at the boot: prompt on your warm spare. This is fine as long as an operator is present. Also, the downtime will be considerably longer than the time a ethernet address failover would require, since the latter involves no manual switching of SCSI busses and booting of servers. >As others have suggested, though, all of the services that you've >described already support redundant servers. I'm aware of that. I'd prefer failing over the ethernet address because it would also simplify the implementation of redundant servers. This is because the server processes themselves only need to support orderly shutdown. Designing a high availabilty mechanism at the application level is bound to be more problematic than failing over the server processes at the operating system level. For example, DNS client libraries usually allow for multiple name servers be specified in client libraries. The order in which the servers are used for queries is often not specified and system dependant. Many implementations just query the first server listed, and try the second if the first one does not respond in a few seconds. Bad (existing) implementations do not share the information about name servers which are down among applications on the client system. This usually leads to intolerable delays at the clients if the first listed name server goes down. Failing over the ethernet address is completely transparent to the clients (at least with stateless server protocols), which is a big plus given the stupidity of commonly used clients. Another plus for the ethernet address failover approach is the fact that the machine can have real identity on another network interface and perform useful work while being prepared for a failover. The cold standby solution costs rack space and requires careful maintenance of the standby system to ensure that it is actually ready to perform the failover. Regards, Hans P.S.: Sorry for the improperly set Cc: in my last message. Stupid me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 14:15:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18797 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18782 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14964; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:15:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199804252115.XAA14964@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hans@artcom.de (Hans Huebner) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:40:45 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:15:34 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA18783 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >As others have suggested, though, all of the services that you've > >described already support redundant servers. > I'm aware of that. I'd prefer failing over the ethernet address > because it would also simplify the implementation of redundant > servers. This is because the server processes themselves only need > to support orderly shutdown. Designing a high availabilty mechanism > at the application level is bound to be more problematic than failing > over the server processes at the operating system level. Why do it at the eternet level and not at the IP level? Doing it at the IP level will give the same functionality if the only protocol that you are using is IP. All the support is already there. Just set up two IP adresses on the server that is covering for the failing server, the normal IP and the IP of the failing server. If you do it at the ethernet level then the backup server can't be used for other things as its's ethernet adress will disapear if you change the ethernet adress on it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 14:51:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:51:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mozart.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23205 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by mozart.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27929; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.canonware.com: jasone owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:48:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Christoph Toshok , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads performance In-Reply-To: <199804251754.MAA11694@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > The issue of kernel threads is on my plate, I have been *ordered* > > (not in a demanding fashion, but they are my reason for existance > at work for awhile. We will also be porting the essence of the > work to NetBSD -- NetBSD can take 'em or leave 'em if they want, > but we are adding the code to our private NetBSD tree at work.) > > to do them this week for work (got sick again, so thought I would flamewar > instead, since my higher order functions were totally gone :-)). Will the work you (John) are planning on doing in the near term include the pthreads wrapper library, or will you just be making clone() work? Threads performance is also very important to SQRL (the Hungry DBMS), so I'm very interested in how the pthreads library that uses clone() will be architected. Specifically, will we be doing the same as LinuxThreads does, with a 1:1 mapping of threads to kernel "processes"? I tend to think that a multi-level threading scheme, such as what Solaris uses, has the potential for better scalable performance. It's also a good bit harder to write such a library. =( We'd also need to understand the performance problems with our current user-land threads library to make multi-level threads work well. Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 15:14:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28938 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.artcom.de ([192.76.129.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28874 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@artcom.de) Received: from transrapid.artcom.de by mail.artcom.de with smtp id m0yTDCr-00000nC; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:14:01 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:14:01 +0200 (MEST) From: Hans Huebner To: Mattias Pantzare cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-Reply-To: <199804252115.XAA14964@zed.ludd.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why do it at the eternet level and not at the IP level? Doing it at the IP > level will give the same functionality if the only protocol that you are > using is IP. All the support is already there. Just set up two IP adresses > on the server that is covering for the failing server, the normal IP and the > IP of the failing server. Because that requires re-arping of the IP address in the failover case. Also, I'm not sure whether I want to restrict the HA configuration to IP only. Supporting AppleTalk failover would also be useful. > If you do it at the ethernet level then the backup server can't be used for > other things as its's ethernet adress will disapear if you change the ethernet > adress on it. For a good HA configuration, multiple ethernet interfaces are useful anyway. Also, many ethernet chips support multiple ethernet addresses on a single ethernet interface. Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 15:15:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29146 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-k56flex-0147.jumpnet.com [207.8.6.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29141 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id RAA02389; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:14:58 -0500 (CDT) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover References: <199804252115.XAA14964@zed.ludd.luth.se> From: Dave Marquardt Date: 25 Apr 1998 17:13:37 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mattias Pantzare's message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:15:34 +0200" Message-ID: <85yawtim7i.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.22/XEmacs 19.16 - "Lille" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mattias Pantzare writes: > > >As others have suggested, though, all of the services that you've > > >described already support redundant servers. > > I'm aware of that. I'd prefer failing over the ethernet address > > because it would also simplify the implementation of redundant > > servers. This is because the server processes themselves only need > > to support orderly shutdown. Designing a high availabilty mechanism > > at the application level is bound to be more problematic than failing > > over the server processes at the operating system level. > > Why do it at the eternet level and not at the IP level? Doing it at the IP > level will give the same functionality if the only protocol that you are > using is IP. All the support is already there. Just set up two IP adresses > on the server that is covering for the failing server, the normal IP and the > IP of the failing server. A lot of ARP caches will retain the original server's MAC address for some number of minutes, so being able to take over the MAC address is a very good thing. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 15:30:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03388 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03288 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA01976; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:29:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804252229.IAA01976@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: threads performance In-Reply-To: from Christoph Toshok at "Apr 25, 98 05:51:33 am" To: toshok@Hungry.COM (Christoph Toshok) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:29:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christoph Toshok wrote: > On freebsd the performance is just abysmal. Really, it's *awful*. > Just for kicks, I ported the thread api to NSPR (Netscape's Portable > Runtime) and the runtime for javac compiling a trivial .java file > drops from 39 seconds to 18 seconds. Implementing user-threads with a pre-emptive scheduler over a BSD kernel with no special support requires the use of signals to cause context switches. The thread library has to perform atomic operations that require signals to be blocked. It is this blocking and unblocking that affects performance in certain benchmarks. The second area where performance takes a hit is with FILE locking the way that POSIX specifies it. The worst case is that a fgetc() will lock and unlock the FILE with each call. If you want performance with FILE operations and you know that only one thread will be accessing the file, then the unlocked versions of the stdio functions will restore the lost performance. If the java VM implementation does it's own locking at object level (like Sun's implementation does), then the use of the unlocked stdio functions is a porting issue. This is where the use of the FreeBSD mozilla CVS repository will come in handy. Can you provide patches that will allow us to build the same executables in which you see the performance hit? Xig finally sold me Motif at the US domestic price so I can build now. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 15:52:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06462 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terror.hungry.com (toshok@terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06442 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toshok@Hungry.COM) Received: (from toshok@localhost) by terror.hungry.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) id PAA23994; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:51:48 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads performance References: <199804252229.IAA01976@cimlogic.com.au> From: Christoph Toshok Date: 25 Apr 1998 15:51:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: jb@cimlogic.com.au's message of 25 Apr 1998 15:35:07 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 56 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jb@cimlogic.com.au (John Birrell) writes: > > Christoph Toshok wrote: > > On freebsd the performance is just abysmal. Really, it's *awful*. > > Just for kicks, I ported the thread api to NSPR (Netscape's Portable > > Runtime) and the runtime for javac compiling a trivial .java file > > drops from 39 seconds to 18 seconds. > > Implementing user-threads with a pre-emptive scheduler over a BSD > kernel with no special support requires the use of signals to cause > context switches. The thread library has to perform atomic operations > that require signals to be blocked. It is this blocking and unblocking > that affects performance in certain benchmarks. but the JDK port for freebsd and netscape's NSPR also implement pre-emptive user-threads (well, I don't really know if the JDK does, but NSPR does.) and they are much faster than the freebsd version. time to gprof japhar again, so I can give some actual numbers and see what seems to be bogging things down. > The second area where performance takes a hit is with FILE locking > the way that POSIX specifies it. The worst case is that a fgetc() > will lock and unlock the FILE with each call. If you want performance > with FILE operations and you know that only one thread will be accessing > the file, then the unlocked versions of the stdio functions will restore > the lost performance. If the java VM implementation does it's own > locking at object level (like Sun's implementation does), then the > use of the unlocked stdio functions is a porting issue. this is a possibility, but the majority of writing being done by japhar is not a character at a time. still, the locking is obviously slowing it down *someplace*. > This is where the use of the FreeBSD mozilla CVS repository will > come in handy. Can you provide patches that will allow us to build the > same executables in which you see the performance hit? actually, the performance problem I'm seeing isn't in mozilla at all. All you need to do is download japhar (ftp.hungry.com/pub/hungry/japhar/current) and configure it like this (replace /usr/local/jdk1.1.5 with wherever you've got the 1.1.5 JDK installed) LDFLAGS='-L' CFLAGS='-g -I' configure --with-sun-jdk=/usr/local/jdk1.1.5 --enable-nspr and compile it. this will give you the fast one. if you want the slow one, just rm your config.cache and run configure --with-sun-jdk=/usr/local/jdk1.1.5 go to ../testsuite/java.io and run javac -verbose IsAbsoluteTest.java. I see ~39 seconds with libc_r and ~18 with NSPR. christoph To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 15:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.artcom.de ([192.76.129.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06570 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@artcom.de) Received: from transrapid.artcom.de by mail.artcom.de with smtp id m0yTDno-00000qC; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:52:12 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:52:12 +0200 (MEST) From: Hans Huebner To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-Reply-To: <199804251913.MAA00572@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello again, On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > In your case, if you know the adapter(s) you're using, you could add > code to allow the change to be made. This would involve implementing > the SIOCGIFHWADDR and SIOCSIFHWADDR (get/set hardware address) socket > ioctls, which would be relatively simple. I looked at the DE21040 documentation and found out that you're right. I also found out that this particular Ethernet chip allows for multiple MAC addresses to be used by one Ethernet interface. This raises the question whether I should ignore that functionality and use Linux' understanding of SIOC[GS]IFHWADDR, which allows for one MAC address per Ethernet interface. The implementation would be almost trivial, as Mike suggested. A clean interface to an ethernet interface with multiple MAC addresses would propably require changes to the system configuration so that the physical ethernet interface becomes a 'controller' and the logical ethernet interface becomes a 'device' on that controller. This sounds like being a bit hefty to me, given the fact that most people don't seem to consider changing their MAC addresses worthwile at all ;) Thanks for your input so far! -Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 16:07:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08095 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08081 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00505; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:06:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199804252306.SAA00505@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: threads performance In-Reply-To: <199804251916.MAA00591@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Apr 25, 98 12:16:35 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:06:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, toshok@Hungry.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith said: > > > The issue of kernel threads is on my plate, I have been *ordered* > > > > I think he was still wanting to know (and I'm darn curious myself) > > why our *user* threads are so slow in comparison to the user thread > > packages on other platforms. I'm not saying kernel threads aren't > > neat or needed, I'm just wondering what specific performance bogon > > we're suffering from in userland which makes it so? > > As was pointed out at the SFBUG, at least one of the problems is the > number of signal mask manipulation system calls that take place. > > Why this hurts so much be comparison to other platforms (which > supposedly also do this) is another question entirely. > We need to use a deferred mechanism, a lot like our interrupt code. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 16:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09006 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09001 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:19:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@father.ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA18601; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:19:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199804252319.BAA18601@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dave Marquardt cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-reply-to: Your message of "25 Apr 1998 17:13:37 CDT." <85yawtim7i.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:19:11 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A lot of ARP caches will retain the original server's MAC address for > some number of minutes, so being able to take over the MAC address is > a very good thing. No, when you ifconfig a interface it will send a gratuitous ARP request. That will update the ARP caches on the other hosts. Now if you are worying about lost packets you need to take a look at your network... :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 16:55:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11261 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11247; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA09319; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:54:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199804252354.JAA09319@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: threads performance In-Reply-To: <199804252306.SAA00505@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Apr 25, 98 06:06:58 pm" To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:54:03 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John S. Dyson wrote: > > Why this hurts so much be comparison to other platforms (which > > supposedly also do this) is another question entirely. > > > We need to use a deferred mechanism, a lot like our interrupt > code. The issue of blocking syscalls makes this "not worth doing". It would only be possible for -current, anyway. I'd prefer that we concentrate on the kernel thread interface so that the blocking syscall issue goes away. And with it goes the need to block signals. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 16:59:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11740 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA23947 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:59:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: National Semi SONIC DP83932 support? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've got a pair of Kingston KNE-3221 EISA ethernet cards that use the National Semi. SONIC DP83932 chip. I had assumed that this was an NE2000 compatible chipset but now I'm not so sure. Anyone else have any info? /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 17:13:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (friley585.res.iastate.edu [129.186.167.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13504; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Received: from friley585.res.iastate.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by friley585.res.iastate.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09376; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:13:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ccsanady@friley585.res.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199804260013.TAA09376@friley585.res.iastate.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: John Birrell cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: threads performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:54:03 +1000." <199804252354.JAA09319@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:13:00 -0500 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >John S. Dyson wrote: >> > Why this hurts so much be comparison to other platforms (which >> > supposedly also do this) is another question entirely. >> > >> We need to use a deferred mechanism, a lot like our interrupt >> code. > >The issue of blocking syscalls makes this "not worth doing". It would >only be possible for -current, anyway. > >I'd prefer that we concentrate on the kernel thread interface so that the >blocking syscall issue goes away. And with it goes the need to block >signals. I'm not sure how related this is, but has any thought been given to using an async call gate? It seems like it would be the Right Thing to do (eg. for the aio calls, etc.) Without it, wouldn't apps that do a lot of async calls get badly hurt by repeatedly yeilding to the scheduler? Perhaps I am missing something, this is not an area I am intimately familiar with.. Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 19:28:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:28:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles322.castles.com [208.214.167.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24994 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01557; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804260225.TAA01557@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dave Marquardt cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-reply-to: Your message of "25 Apr 1998 17:13:37 CDT." <85yawtim7i.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:25:40 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A lot of ARP caches will retain the original server's MAC address for > some number of minutes, so being able to take over the MAC address is > a very good thing. Pinging the broadcast address from the new MAC is one fairly effective way of flushing stale ARP entries. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 19:34:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26047 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:34:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles322.castles.com [208.214.167.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26014 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01583; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804260231.TAA01583@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: National Semi SONIC DP83932 support? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:59:11 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:31:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I've got a pair of Kingston KNE-3221 EISA ethernet cards that use the > National Semi. SONIC DP83932 chip. > > I had assumed that this was an NE2000 compatible chipset but now I'm not > so sure. > > Anyone else have any info? It's a SONIC, as the label says. Not 8390x compatible as such, no. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 19:58:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:58:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-13.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29518 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:58:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04584 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:58:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:58:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Speaking of packaging tools.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's a little something that was posted to the kde-devel mailing list. It only generates ELF binaries which isn't a huge problem, because it doesn't seem to use anything from libc. Perhaps this could prove useful in revamping pkg_*. And, yes, it does work nicely (without ELF libs). - alex "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:51:20 -0500 From: Timothy Whitfield To: kde-devel@alpha.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: kinstallshield: CALL FOR TESTORS Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:04:43 +0200 Resent-From: kde-devel@alpha.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de This call is not actually to test kinstallshield itself, being that it isn't written yet. It is; however, to test the first baby step program that is working toward kinstallshield (still trying to come up with a better name. any ideas?) The program is called bzip2se, and it creates self-extracting archives from tar.bz2 files. It isn't a windowing program, but it is a baby step toward accomplishing an installer. You can find the self-extracting archive of it at ftp://dominion.datasync.com/pub/extract_se by next week sometime I should have the dns set so you can go to ftp://ftp.100webstreet.com/pub/extract_se instead (btw -- I am interested in keeping a binary shadow archive for kde someone talk to me.) Anyone interested in "trying" to get it to work on other OS's please email me. This self-extracting archive was compiled on linux-2.0.33 The self extractor creator itself should work on any elf based platform. I would be VERY interested to know if it works on a.out or such. Email me, and I will send it to you in a more portable format. THIS IS ALPHA-WARE!!! NO SPAM ABOUT NO AUTOCONF IN THIS DIST! I don't know how to use autoconf, I am investigating how to use autoconf, and this will be available in autoconf at a later date. tar and bzip2 are required to compress a file before making it self extracting. bzip2 is not required to unextract, but tar is. Seemed like it would be a waste to compile in tar when it is already on every unix and the whole point is to keep the overhead down on the self-extracting files. Thanks, Timothy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:10:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00962 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00954 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA09218; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 03:10:44 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id FAA23184; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:10:44 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980426051043.29132@follo.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:10:43 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0700, Alex wrote: > Here's a little something that was posted to the kde-devel mailing list. > It only generates ELF binaries which isn't a huge problem, because it > doesn't seem to use anything from libc. Perhaps this could prove useful > in revamping pkg_*. And, yes, it does work nicely (without ELF libs). Neat - but do we really want to go in the direction of packages that can contain trojans? Personally I wouldn't like running a self-extracting archive, at least... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:15:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:15:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles322.castles.com [208.214.167.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01398 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01761; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804260312.UAA01761@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hans@artcom.de (Hans Huebner) cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD HA configuration / Ethernet address takeover In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:40:45 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:12:51 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello Mike, > > In article <199804251913.MAA00572@antipodes.cdrom.com> you write: > >None of the filesystems supported by FreeBSD are suited to multiple > >consumers, so I'm not sure what you would hope to gain from such a > >thing. If your intention was to be able to swap the disk set to the > >replacement server, you'd be better off with a SCSI switch. > > A common bus would minimize the downtime of a HA pair. Also, such a > mechanism could allow for easy sharing of removeable media drives. I don't see how having a common bus would minimize downtime in any meaningful fashion, without a failsafe means of fallover. This isn't going to be available until you start looking at high-end RAID controllers with multiple host ports. In the bad old days when storage was expensive, this was popular. These days, time costs more than hardware. > > FreeBSD > >systems don't tend to take very long to come up when suitably configured, > > .... and orderly shut down. If the system owning the disks went down in a mess, the disks have to be cleaned regardless. If you want to avoid this, sharing disks is counterproductive. > >so you could well just shut the primary server down, flip the SCSI > >switch and then hit enter at the boot: prompt on your warm spare. > > This is fine as long as an operator is present. Also, the downtime > will be considerably longer than the time a ethernet address failover > would require, since the latter involves no manual switching of > SCSI busses and booting of servers. Are you arguing for or against shared SCSI busses? Ethernet address fallover requires the spare be hot, which precludes sharing a bus with the active server. > >As others have suggested, though, all of the services that you've > >described already support redundant servers. > > I'm aware of that. I'd prefer failing over the ethernet address > because it would also simplify the implementation of redundant > servers. This is because the server processes themselves only need > to support orderly shutdown. Designing a high availabilty mechanism > at the application level is bound to be more problematic than failing > over the server processes at the operating system level. Not necessarily. But your later points regarding the quality of current client implementations support hacks at the server level in order to achieve an effective workaround, yes. > Failing over the ethernet address is completely transparent to the > clients (at least with stateless server protocols), which is a big > plus given the stupidity of commonly used clients. Agree. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles322.castles.com [208.214.167.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01783 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01783; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804260315.UAA01783@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:10:43 +0200." <19980426051043.29132@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:15:09 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0700, Alex wrote: > > Here's a little something that was posted to the kde-devel mailing list. > > It only generates ELF binaries which isn't a huge problem, because it > > doesn't seem to use anything from libc. Perhaps this could prove useful > > in revamping pkg_*. And, yes, it does work nicely (without ELF libs). > > Neat - but do we really want to go in the direction of packages that > can contain trojans? Personally I wouldn't like running a > self-extracting archive, at least... We already have them. Part of the notes I formulated on the scheme that came out of the last round of discussions deals with the concept of a set of security models and some basic trust-related items to handle packages which need to do processing work subsequent to installation. It was fairly clear from some observation that this processing could not always be eliminated. 8( -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04054 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-13.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04033 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04724; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:28:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. In-Reply-To: <19980426051043.29132@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0700, Alex wrote: > > Here's a little something that was posted to the kde-devel mailing list. > > It only generates ELF binaries which isn't a huge problem, because it > > doesn't seem to use anything from libc. Perhaps this could prove useful > > in revamping pkg_*. And, yes, it does work nicely (without ELF libs). > > Neat - but do we really want to go in the direction of packages that > can contain trojans? Personally I wouldn't like running a > self-extracting archive, at least... You can use that argument against any binary packaging system AFAIK, esp. those that run scripts before and/or after installing the package. Think about if someone made a rogue colorls package, installed by root... Also, when was the last time you heard about someone getting an infected copy of the WinZip sea (Considering the ## of Windows shareware mirrors and the linke..)? - alex "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:28:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04202 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:28:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04118 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:28:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15470; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:10:43 +0200." <19980426051043.29132@follo.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:27:50 -0700 Message-ID: <15211.893561270@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Neat - but do we really want to go in the direction of packages that > can contain trojans? Personally I wouldn't like running a Erm.. We've not only already gone in that direction, we reached the destination long ago and have spent enough time at the location to build a small town there. The existing pkg_add format is a walking, talking demonstration model for creating packaged trojans and I'm not talking about condoms (rim shot) - the +INSTALL component of a pkg can be literally anything from a benign shell-script to a system-eating binary horror. There are no checks on what it does save for the permissions available to the uid pkg_add is running as, that generally being root of course. Packages aren't even SIGNED, as you well know, and it'd be essentially correct to say that the *BSD package system is completely, totally and utterly without any form of security whatsoever and is probably saved only by the fact that hacking it would prove no challenge whatsoever and hence isn't enough fun. :-) What I'm more curious to know about these self-extractors is where exactly they extract and how one controls that behavior. The biggest problem with executable packages is also, of course, the fact that people will typically use ftp to xfer them and they won't then run without the user knowing how to use chmod to set the execute bit. This isn't a problem that pkg_add has to worry about with data files. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:42:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06111 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06088 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA09827; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 03:41:44 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id FAA25456; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:41:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980426054143.31001@follo.net> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:41:43 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. References: <19980426051043.29132@follo.net> <15211.893561270@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <15211.893561270@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 08:27:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 08:27:50PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Neat - but do we really want to go in the direction of packages that > > can contain trojans? Personally I wouldn't like running a > > Erm.. We've not only already gone in that direction, we reached the > destination long ago and have spent enough time at the location to > build a small town there. *grin* OK, so my wording was lousy. What I *meant* is "do we want the ultimate destination for the package system to be one where you run a random executable some shadowy person has put on a web- or FTP-site, instead of having nice, signed packages with warnings when they include install-scripts or go outside their alloted filesystem arena?" And yeah, I know I right now should have been working on integrating either the nice pkg_add signature code lying on the harddrive of my co-worker on right (take a bow, Rmz) or integrating the DLM, but unfortunately a system crashed and I have to spend the time re-developing some non-FreeBSD-related code. :-( Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:47:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06608 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:47:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06603 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:46:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02240; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Alex , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of packaging tools.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:41:43 +0200." <19980426054143.31001@follo.net> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:46:45 -0700 Message-ID: <2238.893562405@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OK, so my wording was lousy. What I *meant* is "do we want the > ultimate destination for the package system to be one where you run a > random executable some shadowy person has put on a web- or FTP-site, > instead of having nice, signed packages with warnings when they > include install-scripts or go outside their alloted filesystem arena?" No, you probably don't want to encourage executable packages if for no other reason than the fact that it's easier to hide bogus packages among good ones if all a package does is run itself. If pkg_add is properly hardened, it can provide far more reliable validation. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 20:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06930 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06919 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA26051; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: National Semi SONIC DP83932 support? In-Reply-To: <199804260231.TAA01583@antipodes.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > It's a SONIC, as the label says. Not 8390x compatible as such, no. So a new driver would be needed? /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 23:17:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25018 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25011 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26745; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026740; Sat Apr 25 23:17:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27669; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:17:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804260617.XAA27669@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: threads performance To: toshok@Hungry.COM (Christoph Toshok) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:17:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Christoph Toshok" at Apr 25, 98 05:51:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm working on japhar (the hungry java vm) and I'm primarily using > freebsd for my work. One of the central "features" of japhar is that > it uses platform's thread library -- pthreads on freebsd and linux, > cthreads on nextstep and the hurd. > > On freebsd the performance is just abysmal. Really, it's *awful*. > Just for kicks, I ported the thread api to NSPR (Netscape's Portable > Runtime) and the runtime for javac compiling a trivial .java file > drops from 39 seconds to 18 seconds. This is a long post; sorry about that. Please read the whole thing; I give a couple of possible causes for the problem, analysis, fixes and workarounds, an analysis of why you are probably getting the NSPR vs. pthreads results you are seeing, and an analysis of why they mean that kernel threads probably wouldn't help in two of the three possible root causes. -- 1 -- I'll assume you are running FreeBSD 2.2.6 or -current, since the pthreads before those releases is not Draft 4 compliant, and you should. If not, it may just be that you are using a buggy libc_r. -- 2 -- More likely you are doing a compute intensive task, it's not explicitly calling pthread_yield(), and other threads are not running concurrently. The pthreads implementation is a call conversion implemenetation. It takes blocking calls and converts them into non-blocking calls plus a context switch. One problem here is that an EWOULDBLOCK operation does not necessarily schedule the operation to be performed in an efficient way; this is a kernel issue (attempted operations should be considered to be likely to be reattempted, and normal triggerring, like sequential read-ahead, should occur as if the EWOULDBLOCK operation and the subsequently successful call were the same call). In a general sense, aio is your friend; there are problems there, too: what should an aioread on a non-blocking fd do? -- 3 -- The next most likely thing is that you are doing the same broken thing the LDAP implementors did in their code. The problem is that it's not obviously broken, so it's hard to steer clear of it. What they did was use getdtablesize(2) and/or sysctl(3) to get the maximum possible number of fd's, and then pass that as the first argument to select. The number was larger than FD_SETSIZE, and, as a result, select(2) was returning "true" for the fd's off in space (some of which, when dereferenced, pointed to 0, 1,and 2 as far as the kernel could tell). > Are there any plans to address the performance of threads in the > coming weeks/months? Kernel threads will be supported. Let me hedge your opinion, here, though. -- kernel threads won't improve performance in most cases -- The user space threading causes I/O to be highly concurrent. In the general case, threads are used as I/O processing context holders. What this means is that, for I/O event processing, kernel threads will not be a big win for you. Your I/O will be as overlapped as it can be. If you are doing compute intensive tasks as a result of I/O, then kernel threads will increase real concurrency; this assumes tha the compute intensity is such that a single compute task spans more than a single quantum -- the amount of time between forcible context switches. You can expect a minor benefit to kernel threads on a heavily loaded system, as well. This is because your threaded process will compete as (# of kernel threads) processes for quantum, against the other processes on the machine (pretty clearly: if you are a threaded server on a loaded machine, you will be beaten out by servers built on mulitple processes instead of threads... they will get more quantum because they have more kernel schedulable entities). Where kernel threads are expected to shine is SMP, whre you will be able to concurrently, rather than timesliced round-robin simulated concurrency, run multiple threads in a single process. This presumes we do the necessary work on scheduling and CPU affinity at some point. All that said, I don't think kernel threads are needed for your application. Here's why: > The fact that NSPR can drop 21 seconds off the > runtime (in this very contrived example) makes me think that there is > a lot going on in libc_r that is suboptimal, but perhaps there is just > no other way to implement things so they conform to the posix spec. The fact that NSPR can drop 21 seconds off the runtime means that threading is not your bottleneck, and that kernel threads would probably help, but only because the code is badly behaved. NSPR can't implement kernel services that aren't there in the base OS. That means that the best it can do is to build upon what's already there. Most likely, you either have a run-away program (because of the select() coding error or a similar problem), OR the NSPR implementation is making explicit yield calls that the native implementation doesn't because it assumes a kernel implementation of pthreads. The fix for the first is as discussed above. The fix for the second is to look at where the yeilds would occur in the NSPR based implementation, and probably use: #ifndef PTHREAD_KERNEL pthread_yield(); #endif /* PTHREAD_KERNEL*/ There to keep the CPU bound thread from interferring with I/O concurrency. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 23:33:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27641 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02219; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:32:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd002205; Sat Apr 25 23:32:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA28042; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:32:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199804260632.XAA28042@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: threads performance To: jasone@canonware.com (Jason Evans) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:32:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, toshok@Hungry.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason Evans" at Apr 25, 98 02:48:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Threads performance is also very important to SQRL (the Hungry DBMS), so See other post. The performance seen is probably a use model problem. > I'm very interested in how the pthreads library that uses clone() will be > architected. Specifically, will we be doing the same as LinuxThreads > does, with a 1:1 mapping of threads to kernel "processes"? I tend to > think that a multi-level threading scheme, such as what Solaris uses, has > the potential for better scalable performance. Solaris (and SVR4.2 derived) kernel threading is arguably Very Broken for most of their recommended use models. Specifically, the use models are subject to thread quantum starvation, even in the face of available process quantum going unused. The only use model where this isn't the case is the one-thread spawn ahead with autothread creation when there are runnable user space threads and all kernel threads but the one that does the spawning are currently busy with blocking calls. Ultimately, the only fix is a cooperative user space scheduler. AIO helps a lot, but there are blocking calls that are not dealing with vanilla fd's. Ultimately, the fix for this would be an async call gate for all system calls, and per system call falgging about whether the call is non-blocking, potentially blocking, or definitely blocking, and the addition of a call context management interface (cancel, wait, etc.). Probably you would want to build POSIX AIO on top of the async call gate, rather than adding async versions of existing calls, and missing the blocking calls that POSIX misses because they expect the problem to be I/O blocking and concurrency. But enough about Solaris/SVR4.2. 8-). > It's also a good bit > harder to write such a library. =( We'd also need to understand the > performance problems with our current user-land threads library to make > multi-level threads work well. The general problem with a user space threads library is starvation of threads in the case of a CPU intensive thread not calling explicit thread_yield() when it fails to call system calls to implicitly yield. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 25 23:57:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01564 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01556 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04141; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004138; Sun Apr 26 06:51:27 1998 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tips needed about dynamic device registering In-Reply-To: <199804251206.FAA24170@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > I need some tips how I should go ahead and register dynamic on boot time > disk drive device, simular like "device sd0". The raid controller I am > working on can have up to 32 "drives", which have mainly a read block > and a write block function. > > DEVFS would probably one way, but I am also interested in doing it without > DEVFS. As the devfs person I agree devfs is the way, but you probably want this to run on 2.2.x as well. can you describe what you want to do with an example? I don't exactly understand your question. (I can think of several possible meanings) as I wrote sd.c I can probably help if I knew what you wanted to know. julian > > Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message