From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 00:01:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 00:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14853 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 00:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05247 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 23:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005243; Sun May 17 06:57:52 1998 Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bonsai - netscape tool to query CVS repository (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG this seems to be of interest in general.. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:24:47 -0700 From: sean dreilinger To: info-cvs@gnu.org Subject: bonsai - netscape tool to query CVS repository Resent-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:48:08 -0400 Resent-From: info-cvs@gnu.org i noticed that the mozilla.org folks have put up a feature-full query interface to their massive cvs repository called "bonsai". not sure if the source to it is available anywhere, but its a neat thing to check out if you're a CVS admin! http://www.mozilla.org/bonsai.html --sean :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 02:18:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 02:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25813 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 02:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca124-05.ix.netcom.com [207.223.162.133]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA11198; Sun, 17 May 1998 02:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09822; Sun, 17 May 1998 02:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 02:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805170917.CAA09822@baloon.mimi.com> To: brian@Awfulhak.org CC: grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199805162119.WAA25472@awfulhak.org> (message from Brian Somers on Sat, 16 May 1998 22:19:02 +0100) Subject: Re: Announcing vinum: a volume manager for FreeBSD From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * From: Brian Somers * * [.....] * > o By dynamically increasing the size of a volume, it is pos- * > sible to solve space problems without repartitioning. * * Excellent ! Um, that is true, but I assume he meant "if/when FFS supports resizing of existing filesystems" or "if you are using the raw disk partition and not a filesystem". Its functionality is rougly equal to ccd at this point (according to the README). It's not a filesystem. By the way, I'll be very interested in testing the RAID5 functionality when I get some time (and some spare disks). Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 03:12:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01221 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:12:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01189; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA00641; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:40:47 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980517194047.A427@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:40:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Satoshi Asami , brian@Awfulhak.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Announcing vinum: a volume manager for FreeBSD References: <199805162119.WAA25472@awfulhak.org> <199805170917.CAA09822@baloon.mimi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805170917.CAA09822@baloon.mimi.com>; from Satoshi Asami on Sun, May 17, 1998 at 02:17:57AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998 at 2:17:57 -0700, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * From: Brian Somers > * > * [.....] > * > o By dynamically increasing the size of a volume, it is pos- > * > sible to solve space problems without repartitioning. > * > * Excellent ! > > Um, that is true, but I assume he meant "if/when FFS supports resizing > of existing filesystems" or "if you are using the raw disk partition > and not a filesystem". Its functionality is rougly equal to ccd at > this point (according to the README). It's not a filesystem. Correct. Think of a vinum volume as a resizable partition. However, der Mouse has released code which resizes a ufs partition. Terry sent information recently, and if I ever get the time, I'll look at it. > By the way, I'll be very interested in testing the RAID5 functionality > when I get some time (and some spare disks). Go for it. You know the URL, right? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 03:27:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03276 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03271 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@father.ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pantzer@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26384; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:27:39 +0200 Message-Id: <199805171027.MAA26384@zed.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dg@root.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad behaviour in slow start In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 May 1998 23:46:09 PDT." <199805170646.XAA15423@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:27:37 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > * Don't force slow-start on local network. > ... > >I think this is in violation of good TCP practices, and should be at > ... > >comments ? > > When sending out to a local peer, ethernet and point-to-point devices will > buffer the initial burst of packets with the local buffers draining at the > speed of the available link bandwidth, so I don't see why you would want to > do slow start in this case. This is different than the case of a congested > upstream circuit where you don't know about the congestion and have no > control over the buffering. The problem is that you can't detect if the other computer is a local peer or not, there may be routers in the path to it even if the netmask tells you that it is on the same subnet. It isn't even true on the ethernet level any more, switches create the same problems as a router. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 03:57:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elit.elit.chernigov.ua (elit.elit.chernigov.ua [193.125.84.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07139 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from al@cn.ua) Received: from cn.ua (al@dragon.cinet.cn.ua [193.125.84.115]) by elit.elit.chernigov.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06642; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:55:50 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <355EC236.4626669B@cn.ua> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:55:50 +0300 From: Alexey Lukin Organization: JSC CINET X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Missing sio0 and sio1 (was: HELP! Please, HELP!) References: <6jleo9$ee0@elit.elit.chernigov.ua> <355EA834.A657FA38@cn.ua> <19980517195812.B427@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Greg! Greg Lehey wrote: [...] > ? > ? I giot the same sort of problems with different new motherboards. > ? Well, the SIO detection code is TOO sophisticated and does not recognise > ? MOST of on-board 16550 sios. > > I haven't heard anybody claim that before. Can you substantiate this > claim? Which motherboards have you used? What UARTs do they use? > Did the patch work with all of them? > I tried motherboards of 2 wendors: "Micro Star" (MS-5156) and few lastI "Iwill" boards. All boards have 16550A chips. Linux 2.0.32,33 recognized sio ports and worked well, but 2.2.5-R, 2.2.6-R refused to DETECT sio ports. > In any case, code which doesn't recognize all UARTS is not *too* > sophisticated. > I mean only style of /sys/i386/isa/sio.c. > ? So, developers of SIO driver should re-write a bit SIO code to fit new > ? chips. > > And break the old ones? > No :-) Just get ports detected :-) > At the moment, we don't know that this affects more than a fraction of > all motherboards. Yuri wasn't confident enough to commit this patch > (which, so far, has always worked), because he was afraid it might > break the majority for whom the current code works. > Ok, Ok. But I spent a week changing motherboards for simplest worksation :-) IMHO, sio detection procedure may have options "STRICT" to do what it tries to do. If I just want to have 9600 console or mouse on sio device, I do not need all the troubles with detection. BTHW, SIO code itself works just fine on 115200. And please, exuse me if I said something in offesive manner. It's my pure English, not the intention. Best regards! Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 04:49:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12913 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 04:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elit.elit.chernigov.ua (elit.elit.chernigov.ua [193.125.84.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12812 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 04:47:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from al@cn.ua) Received: from cn.ua (al@dragon.cinet.cn.ua [193.125.84.115]) by elit.elit.chernigov.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08416; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:45:45 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <355ECDE9.FBD954C6@cn.ua> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:45:45 +0300 From: Alexey Lukin Organization: JSC CINET X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ada@bsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD in embeded systems? References: <199805170828.SAA26744@noether.blah.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Ada wrote: > > ? I'm going to make FreeBSD booting from PCMCIA Flash card. Goal is > ? FreeBSD-based diskless router with > ? serial console and a lot of various network interfaces. I mean not only IP routers but control devices, networked controllers, etc. > > As has been said on -hackers, there are IDE-like fllash cards. > a friend of mine has built a bsd/os based router using one. > I have bcc'ed this to him to see if he wishes to contribute. Well, it's a good "first step" solution for router but it has 2 main drawbacks for embeded systems in general: 1) kernel gets biger with IDE drivers, and 2) booting time gets unacceptable for embeded systems. Imagine systen with watchdog timer: it should be ready after hardware reset in a very short time, but BIOS and kernel "thinks" appr 60-80 sec on IDE devices. Too long for my applications. Well, yet another little silly thing - fsck on real filesystem. It may wait for maintainer forever :-) So, tiny ISA board with watchdog timer, termometer and flashfile is more acceptable then IDE flash card or even simple flash memory like "Intel Flash 2" in standard PCMCIA controller. Bootblock flash like 28F008 can be used to put boot code in the right place, where BIOS cheks for ROM boot blocks. All I shold do to make FreeBSD work with such card is re-write boot code. I think that RAM disk should be used for root filesystem, and gziped images of it stored in flash memory. It allows to have different versions/configurations and easy boot-time config selection. This solution has drawback too: non-standard hardware, so I should develop all boot code and maintain it by myself. But I'm so lazy :-) Yet another problem with FreeBSD in embeded systems: gziped kernel and binaries are not supported as standard feature. Well, it's not a big deal, but flash chips are expensive yet. And what about real-time applicatios like control systems? AFIK, there's no such project for FreeBSD. Well, Linux has it all, but I like BSD :-) OK, guys, is all this stuff worth of discussion at least? :-) Any comments? Best regards, Alex. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 05:17:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14777 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA14764; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:17:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA05381; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:33:08 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199805171033.MAA05381@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: bad behaviour in slow start To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:33:08 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dg@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805171027.MAA26384@zed.ludd.luth.se> from "Mattias Pantzare" at May 17, 98 12:27:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > * Don't force slow-start on local network. > > >I think this is in violation of good TCP practices, and should be at ... > > When sending out to a local peer, ethernet and point-to-point devices will > > buffer the initial burst of packets with the local buffers draining at the > > speed of the available link bandwidth, so I don't see why you would want to This initial burst is a whole max-size window, so with the same reasoning we could bypass the congestion control algorithms when talking with peers a local network! > > do slow start in this case. This is different than the case of a congested > > upstream circuit where you don't know about the congestion and have no > > control over the buffering. > > The problem is that you can't detect if the other computer is a local peer or > not, there may be routers in the path to it even if the netmask tells you that > it is on the same subnet. It isn't even true on the ethernet level any more, > switches create the same problems as a router. especially in case of 10/100 switches. Actually one reason on a slow (ppp) link is that you might get a false timeout soon, just because your first 16-32K of data will take 10seconds to go through. You might even have real packet losses, i don't remember how long is the queue on a ppp/tun link but hopefully it is not the 50 slots used for ethernets, and people might want to use a small MTU like 576 to improve interactive response with background bulk traffic. I suppose a lot of people using a FreeBSD-based ppp server get an address which is on the same /24 net as the ethernet of the server. My point is, this optimization came in only to serve the needs of TTCP (and even in that case, it should have been enabled only when the peer was known to support TTCP). Then it became the default behaviour, possibly by mistake (at least, so i see it). We could ask confirmation Andres Olah who (I think) is the one who wrote this piece of code, if someone knows how to reach him! (I am cc-ing this msg to olah@freebsd.org just in case...) I think it really ought to be optional and default to off, so people can choose on their own, but knowing what they do. Given the "complexity" of the fix i posted yesterday, i don't think it's such a big deal. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 05:24:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15300 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA15285 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA05410; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:39:21 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199805171039.MAA05410@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD in embeded systems? To: al@cn.ua (Alexey Lukin) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:39:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ada@bsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <355ECDE9.FBD954C6@cn.ua> from "Alexey Lukin" at May 17, 98 02:45:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) kernel gets biger with IDE drivers, and 2) booting time gets > unacceptable for embeded systems. > Imagine systen with watchdog timer: it should be ready after hardware > reset in a very short time, but > BIOS and kernel "thinks" appr 60-80 sec on IDE devices. Too long for my > applications. if you configure your kernel properly there are no such pauses. you only have them when the kernel has to wait for non-existing devices to come up . > Well, yet another little silly thing - fsck on real filesystem. It may > wait for maintainer forever :-) make the critical filesystems readonly and you don't have this problem. luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 05:43:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA16982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA16965; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA05400; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:35:35 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199805171035.MAA05400@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Bandwidth limiter available To: kjc@csl.sony.co.jp (Kenjiro Cho) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:35:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805161810.DAA00252@hotaka.csl.sony.co.jp> from "Kenjiro Cho" at May 17, 98 03:10:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Thanks Luigi for the clarification. > > In addition, modification to IF_DEQUEUE isn't enough. > There are several drivers that peeks at if_snd or use IF_PREPEND; > these operations don't work with multiple queues. > If the drivers are written not to use these operations, replacing > IF_DEQUEUE works fine. of course. i was in a hurry writing the msg. so i forgot to mention the above. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 05:44:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA17448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:44:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA17377 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from jornal_nt1 (d1p20.mpcnet.com.br [200.246.29.83]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA00337 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 09:44:26 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980517093559.00934e90@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:46:37 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: DHCP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sorry for posting this question here, but it seems that -questions and our local FBSD folks don't know the answer, so, -hackers are the last resource. I am attempting to make a FBSD gateway to the internet work in a NT based network, which uses DHCP to assing addresses to clients. The question is: I have to filter who will have access to what service. I couldn't find anything about dhcp and firewalling. Could you help me ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 06:07:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19168 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 06:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19157 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 06:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.10] (user10.dataplex.net [208.2.87.10]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03696; Sun, 17 May 1998 08:06:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <355ECDE9.FBD954C6@cn.ua> References: <199805170828.SAA26744@noether.blah.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:48:48 -0500 To: Alexey Lukin From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: FreeBSD in embeded systems? Cc: ada@bsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 6:45 AM -0500 5/17/98, Alexey Lukin wrote: >Well, yet another little silly thing - fsck on real filesystem. It may >wait for maintainer forever :-) What is there to fsck? Rip it out. >Yet another problem with FreeBSD in embeded systems: gziped kernel and >binaries are not supported as standard feature. Well, it's not a big deal, but >flash chips are expensive yet. ?? If you want to use gziped binaries, all you need do is include the option in the kernel. However, this is a bad option for the general system. In the case of an embedded system, you must balance the cost of extra ram to hold the executing code against the cost of your storage mechanism. I think that, in general, an embedded system will have everything "crunched" into one big binary and statically loaded in the kernel's mfs. This might not be true if you have a large number of occasionally used large utilities that are scheduled on a non-overlapping basis. >OK, guys, is all this stuff worth of discussion at least? :-) > >Any comments? Some of us are doing it.... Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 09:00:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 09:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (fyucloDJ29GOHKVhnrxYqWaRE1wbH6az@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04378 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 09:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id KAA15654; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:59:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00376; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:54:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:54:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DHCP In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980517093559.00934e90@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998, Capriotti wrote: >I am attempting to make a FBSD gateway to the internet work in a NT based >network, which uses DHCP to assing addresses to clients. > >The question is: I have to filter who will have access to what service. DHCP is a broadcast just like bootp. Unless you explicitly configure DHCP relaying on the gateway, no one on a different subnet will see it. Everyone on the local subnet will see it, however, and I don't know of any way to prevent that. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 10:21:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:21:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12735 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13588; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013583; Sun May 17 17:20:40 1998 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Josef Grosch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, byron@dbs-ca.com Subject: Re: [byron@dbs-ca.com: FreeBSD install] In-Reply-To: <19980516001950.06031@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You've proably got no responses because we're stumped too. julian On Sat, 16 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > I got a call tonight from this guy, Byron Johnson. He is trying to install > on to his system. This is his reply to my suggestions. > > >Thanks for taking the call tonight. I did the floppy thing instead of > >the CD, but I'm still toast! The result is exactly the same as coming > >of the CD: > > > >At the blue screen, when the dialog box is showing "Probing devices, > >please wait..." > >I then get the following error: > > panic: vm_fault: fault on nofault entry, addr: f3140000 > > > >And it reboots after waiting 15 seconds and my life ends there! > >What's a next best guess? > > > > > I'm stumped as to what is the problem. Any one see this one? > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.6 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 10:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14381 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13632; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013630; Sun May 17 17:21:28 1998 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Josef Grosch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, byron@dbs-ca.com Subject: Re: [byron@dbs-ca.com: FreeBSD install] In-Reply-To: <19980516001950.06031@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BTW some version info & H/W info might help.. On Sat, 16 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > I got a call tonight from this guy, Byron Johnson. He is trying to install > on to his system. This is his reply to my suggestions. > > >Thanks for taking the call tonight. I did the floppy thing instead of > >the CD, but I'm still toast! The result is exactly the same as coming > >of the CD: > > > >At the blue screen, when the dialog box is showing "Probing devices, > >please wait..." > >I then get the following error: > > panic: vm_fault: fault on nofault entry, addr: f3140000 > > > >And it reboots after waiting 15 seconds and my life ends there! > >What's a next best guess? > > > > > I'm stumped as to what is the problem. Any one see this one? > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.6 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 10:33:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14850 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14780 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA05821 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) id NAA00258 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski Message-Id: <199805171733.NAA00258@fnur.3skel.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: autoconf.c:setroot() makes bad calculation Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Any clues? 2.2.6-RELEASE autoconf.c:setroot() finds wrong root device in following: 1. booteasy 2. boot device, second scsi drive 3. second scsi has no slices (raw disklabel) 4. config kernel lists sd1a as root 5. no IDE in the kernel 6. 2 SCSI cards, ahc1 and bt0 boot loader finds and pulls in kernel from ufs, kernel inits correctly, at the end it says "changing root device to wd1s4a" Even wierder: boot.config has '-rv' all ignored, I don't get either -r or -v functions during boot. However, it announces the flags in the boot.config notice. If I type in -r at the boot prompt, kernel finds correct root and boots normally. I can boot the system, but it won't autoboot because of the combined wrong root calc and ignore of boot.config. Any idears? Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 10:51:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18710 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18689 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:51:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA13952; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd013950; Sun May 17 17:43:13 1998 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:43:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: autoconf.c:setroot() makes bad calculation In-Reply-To: <199805171733.NAA00258@fnur.3skel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG did you replace the bootblocks when you went to 2.2.6? disklabel -B sd1 On Sun, 17 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > Any clues? > > 2.2.6-RELEASE > > autoconf.c:setroot() finds wrong root device in following: > > 1. booteasy > 2. boot device, second scsi drive > 3. second scsi has no slices (raw disklabel) > 4. config kernel lists sd1a as root > 5. no IDE in the kernel > 6. 2 SCSI cards, ahc1 and bt0 > > boot loader finds and pulls in kernel from ufs, kernel > inits correctly, at the end it says > "changing root device to wd1s4a" > > Even wierder: boot.config has '-rv' all ignored, I don't > get either -r or -v functions during boot. However, it > announces the flags in the boot.config notice. > > If I type in -r at the boot prompt, kernel finds correct > root and boots normally. > > I can boot the system, but it won't autoboot because of > the combined wrong root calc and ignore of boot.config. > > Any idears? > > Dan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 10:59:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19642 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19608 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA05854; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA00297; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:59:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski To: Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: autoconf.c:setroot() makes bad calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I did. I just did it again to be sure and had the same results. I wish I had forgotten, boy that'd been easy. Dan On Sun, 17 May 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > did you replace the bootblocks when you went to 2.2.6? > > disklabel -B sd1 > > On Sun, 17 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > > > > Any clues? > > > > 2.2.6-RELEASE > > > > autoconf.c:setroot() finds wrong root device in following: > > > > 1. booteasy > > 2. boot device, second scsi drive > > 3. second scsi has no slices (raw disklabel) > > 4. config kernel lists sd1a as root > > 5. no IDE in the kernel > > 6. 2 SCSI cards, ahc1 and bt0 > > > > boot loader finds and pulls in kernel from ufs, kernel > > inits correctly, at the end it says > > "changing root device to wd1s4a" > > > > Even wierder: boot.config has '-rv' all ignored, I don't > > get either -r or -v functions during boot. However, it > > announces the flags in the boot.config notice. > > > > If I type in -r at the boot prompt, kernel finds correct > > root and boots normally. > > > > I can boot the system, but it won't autoboot because of > > the combined wrong root calc and ignore of boot.config. > > > > Any idears? > > > > Dan > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 11:10:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:10:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles150.castles.com [208.214.165.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21329 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00865; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805170318.UAA00865@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Polstra cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 May 1998 11:50:01 PDT." <199805161850.LAA11959@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:18:55 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In article <199805151333.GAA00514@antipodes.cdrom.com>, > Mike Smith wrote: > > > cvs -R > > > > Naturally, avoid doing this while CVSup is running. > > CVSup neither creates locks nor pays any attention to them. Exactly. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 11:32:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24449 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles150.castles.com [208.214.165.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24428 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04009; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805171727.KAA04009@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alexey Lukin cc: Greg Lehey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Missing sio0 and sio1 (was: HELP! Please, HELP!) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 May 1998 13:55:50 +0300." <355EC236.4626669B@cn.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:27:28 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, Greg! > > Greg Lehey wrote: > [...] > > ? > > ? I giot the same sort of problems with different new motherboards. > > ? Well, the SIO detection code is TOO sophisticated and does not recognise > > ? MOST of on-board 16550 sios. > > > > I haven't heard anybody claim that before. Can you substantiate this > > claim? Which motherboards have you used? What UARTs do they use? > > Did the patch work with all of them? > > > I tried motherboards of 2 wendors: "Micro Star" (MS-5156) > and few lastI "Iwill" boards. > > All boards have 16550A chips. None of these boards have 16550A chips. Please examine the boards more closely, and report the actual part number from the I/O device. > Linux 2.0.32,33 recognized sio ports and > worked well, > but 2.2.5-R, 2.2.6-R refused to DETECT sio ports. This is correct. Linux does not perform any significant functional tests on the ports before using them. FreeBSD expects the ports to behave as they "should". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 12:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03556 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03493 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id PAA20479 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SMP & Softupdates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well im up longer than last time. I wasnt going to run SU again till another round of fixes, but the power went out a few nights ago and i woke up to running my softupdates kernel. Sooooo its been up for 2 days 54 minutes now. with the following mount stats. [opsys@pinkfloyd 05-17-1998 2:17pm] ~>mount /dev/sd0s1a on / (local, writes: sync 156 async 26200)) /dev/sd1s1f on /home (local, noatime, soft-updates, writes: sync 59 async 70204)) /dev/sd0s1e on /usr (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 14048)) /dev/sd1s1e on /usr/X11R6 (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 1002)) /dev/sd0s1g on /usr/obj (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 159)) /dev/sd0s1f on /usr/src (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 964)) /dev/sd0s1h on /var (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 31006)) procfs on /proc (local) As you can see the only thing I have mounted ASYNC & SU is /home I had it running async for squid after SU didnt like me a few days ago, so i switched it from SU to async and ran a normal kernel with async for squid on /home. Now im back to running a SU kernel on accident and its mounted async. I think ill fire up xlock -inroot -fullrandom -mode ifs. Ill do that to kill some CPU, and then do some make -j25's or something on a kernel build a few hundred times. And see what happens :) And I agree good job! to john, and julian and kirk and the others for hacking SU!! Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 12:46:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05974 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03657; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <355F3E3A.22B1EDC1@dal.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:44:58 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luigi Rizzo CC: Alexey Lukin , ada@bsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in embeded systems? References: <199805171039.MAA05410@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: Someone else wrote: > > 1) kernel gets biger with IDE drivers, and 2) booting time gets > > unacceptable for embeded systems. > > Imagine systen with watchdog timer: it should be ready after hardware > > reset in a very short time, but > > BIOS and kernel "thinks" appr 60-80 sec on IDE devices. Too long for my > > applications. > > if you configure your kernel properly there are no such pauses. you > only have them when the kernel has to wait for non-existing devices to > come up . This is not universally true. My IDE CD-ROM takes anywhere from 20 to 60 seconds to probe depending on what kind of mood it's in. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 13:11:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:11:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10329 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:11:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17172; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd017102; Sun May 17 13:11:06 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27836; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:11:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805172011.NAA27836@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: bad behaviour in slow start To: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:11:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805171027.MAA26384@zed.ludd.luth.se> from "Mattias Pantzare" at May 17, 98 12:27:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > When sending out to a local peer, ethernet and point-to-point devices will > > buffer the initial burst of packets with the local buffers draining at the > > speed of the available link bandwidth, so I don't see why you would want to > > do slow start in this case. This is different than the case of a congested > > upstream circuit where you don't know about the congestion and have no > > control over the buffering. > > The problem is that you can't detect if the other computer is a local peer > or not, there may be routers in the path to it even if the netmask tells > you that it is on the same subnet. It isn't even true on the ethernet > level any more, switches create the same problems as a router. It sounds as if you need a mechanism for marking interfaces as local or non-local. See: http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.TRUST.txt http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.TRUST http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/DIFF.ifconfig Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 13:27:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13761 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:27:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03051; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA21873; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:27:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:27:04 -0600 Message-Id: <199805172027.OAA21873@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: pantzer@ludd.luth.se (Mattias Pantzare), dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad behaviour in slow start In-Reply-To: <199805172011.NAA27836@usr05.primenet.com> References: <199805171027.MAA26384@zed.ludd.luth.se> <199805172011.NAA27836@usr05.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The problem is that you can't detect if the other computer is a local peer > > or not, there may be routers in the path to it even if the netmask tells > > you that it is on the same subnet. It isn't even true on the ethernet > > level any more, switches create the same problems as a router. > > It sounds as if you need a mechanism for marking interfaces as > local or non-local. Too much domain-specific information. It may be local or non-local, depending on what network is hooked up. (Think networks that do fail-over to different media.) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 13:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14598 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@haiti-70.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14547 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29376; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Alexey Lukin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in embeded systems? In-Reply-To: <355ECDE9.FBD954C6@cn.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998, Alexey Lukin wrote: [...] > Yet another problem with FreeBSD in embeded systems: gziped kernel and > binaries > are not supported as standard feature. Well, it's not a big deal, but > flash chips are expensive yet. man kzip - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 14:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (root@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16812 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07501; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:46:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd007471; Sun May 17 13:46:38 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29488; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:46:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805172046.NAA29488@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: DHCP To: capriotti@geocities.com (Capriotti) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:46:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980517093559.00934e90@pop.mpc.com.br> from "Capriotti" at May 17, 98 09:46:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I am sorry for posting this question here, but it seems that -questions and > our local FBSD folks don't know the answer, so, -hackers are the last > resource. > > I am attempting to make a FBSD gateway to the internet work in a NT based > network, which uses DHCP to assing addresses to clients. > > The question is: I have to filter who will have access to what service. > > I couldn't find anything about dhcp and firewalling. That's because they are programatically unrelated. 8-). > Could you help me ? DHCP assigns addresses and various other options (SLP service group, default gateway, netmask, LDAP directory location, and so on). DHCP does *not* manipulate firewall rules. There are really two questions here: 1) How do I identify a host computer by its DHCP request? 2) How do I automatically install firewall rules as a result of that identification. The first is hard, because you don't have any authentication information associated with the machine. You do, however, have a weak identifier (the name the machine requests to be assigned) and a strong identifier (the MAC address of the machine's ethernet interface). There are hooks in the bootp portion of the DHCP server for using the strong identifier (since the MAC address is how bootp maps to a machine name). There are hooks in the Dynamic DNS portion of the DHCP server for the weak identifier. In general, the strong identifier can be compromised with the correct hardware. Basically, any Sun or DEC machine, and any LANCE based ethernet adapter can change its hardware address, so the strong identifier will not stop a determined person from usurping the MAC address of a priviledged machine. So you should probably just "punt" on using the strong identifier, and thus reduce the problem complexity. For the weak identifier, there are already hooks for dynamic DNS, and you could easily overload those hooks to install a list of weak identifier indexed firewall rules for the requesting machine. For Windows95/98, the requested machine name will be the registered (in the Registry) name of the machine. By default, you will want to disable all ports (ports map to services), and enable ports on a case-by-case basis, per machine. You will need similar processing for lease expiration, and you should use relatively short-lived leases to prevent someone usurping an IP with priviledges they are not entitled to have. One potential problem will be that priviledges are granted by machine name, not by user, so if you have a machine used by multiple people, they should have the same priviledges. The above all presumes, of course, that you are running the DHCP server on the FreeBSD box, and NOT on the NT box. If you need to run the DHCP server on the NT box, then you will be forced to buy a third party firewall package from someone who has probably paid a *LOT* of money to license NT source code, and wants to make that money back. Given NT source license fees, I'd expect the price to be in the tens of thousands of dollars. Note: there is Samba code that allows a FreeBSD box to act as an NT domain controller, so if the reason you have to use NT is because of domain controller services, then you don't have to use NT like you thought you did. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 15:09:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28443 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07702; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199805172208.PAA07702@austin.polstra.com> To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 May 1998 20:18:55 PDT." <199805170318.UAA00865@antipodes.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:08:54 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > cvs -R > > > > > > Naturally, avoid doing this while CVSup is running. > > > > CVSup neither creates locks nor pays any attention to them. > > Exactly. I figured you knew all about that. But I wanted to make sure folks realized that the "-R" flag to CVS doesn't make any difference as far as CVSup is concerned. In general, it's best to avoid CVS operations while CVSup is updating the repository. CVSup is careful to update each individual file atomically. But that's not always enough, e.g., if you're trying to do a commit on the client side at the same time. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 15:20:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01409 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01279 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:20:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 3812"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX67IIKH8G000M5H@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:19:28 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX67IC9WEOB4WSO4@cim.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:19:22 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id IAA03007 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:18:41 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:18:41 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Pentium F00F bug To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199805172218.IAA03007@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's an interesting article on the F00F bug by Robert Collins in May Dr Dobbs Journal. He discusses the adverse impacts of Intel's recommended work-arounds (one of which we use). Robert suggests alternative solutions, which rely on interactions between the bug and the cache, rather than the page fault microcode. These solutions uses the same cross-page IDT alignment as Intel, but mark the first page non-cacheable - either set PTE.PCD=1 or PTE.PWT=1. The major benefit of this approach is that the exception handlers all vector directly to the appropriate interrupt handler - no kludges in the page-fault handler are needed. Has anyone looked into using these work-arounds instead? Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 17:58:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29928 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 17:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA03132; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:28:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980518102811.J427@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:28:11 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Alexey Lukin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Missing sio0 and sio1 (was: HELP! Please, HELP!) References: <6jleo9$ee0@elit.elit.chernigov.ua> <355EA834.A657FA38@cn.ua> <19980517195812.B427@freebie.lemis.com> <355EC236.4626669B@cn.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <355EC236.4626669B@cn.ua>; from Alexey Lukin on Sun, May 17, 1998 at 01:55:50PM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: <355EC236.4626669B@cn.ua> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998 at 13:55:50 +0300, Alexey Lukin wrote: > Hi, Greg! > > Greg Lehey wrote: > [...] >> ? >> ? I giot the same sort of problems with different new motherboards. >> ? Well, the SIO detection code is TOO sophisticated and does not recognise >> ? MOST of on-board 16550 sios. >> >> I haven't heard anybody claim that before. Can you substantiate this >> claim? Which motherboards have you used? What UARTs do they use? >> Did the patch work with all of them? > > I tried motherboards of 2 wendors: "Micro Star" (MS-5156) > and few lastI "Iwill" boards. OK, we know about the IWill boards. That's what the patch is for. Have you tried it? > All boards have 16550A chips. Linux 2.0.32,33 recognized sio ports and > worked well, > but 2.2.5-R, 2.2.6-R refused to DETECT sio ports. (minor nit) could you please try to write approximately even-length lines? Something like this: > All boards have 16550A chips. Linux 2.0.32,33 recognized sio ports > and worked well, but 2.2.5-R, 2.2.6-R refused to DETECT sio ports. It makes things a lot easier to read. (end nit) No, modern boards use integrated multi-I/O chips. The IWill boards use an ALi chip which includes a UART which looks like a 16550, but it's not a 16550. In particular, it has additional register which need to be initialized. >> In any case, code which doesn't recognize all UARTS is not *too* >> sophisticated. > > I mean only style of /sys/i386/isa/sio.c. Sorry, I don't understand. >> At the moment, we don't know that this affects more than a fraction of >> all motherboards. Yuri wasn't confident enough to commit this patch >> (which, so far, has always worked), because he was afraid it might >> break the majority for whom the current code works. > > Ok, Ok. But I spent a week changing motherboards for simplest worksation > :-) If it makes you any happier, it took me about that long, too. > IMHO, sio detection procedure may have options "STRICT" to do what > it tries to do. If I just want to have 9600 console or mouse on sio > device, I do not need all the troubles with detection. BTHW, SIO > code itself works just fine on 115200. > > And please, exuse me if I said something in offesive manner. It's my > pure English, not the intention. Yes, we're thinking about it. The problem is that so far very few people have been affected, and until a number of people are prepared to try this out with their hardware, we're concerned that the fix may break a significant number of other hardware. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 18:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07736 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07716 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02262; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:44:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <355F9294.580BB181@dal.net> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:44:52 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium F00F bug References: <199805172218.IAA03007@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > > There's an interesting article on the F00F bug by Robert Collins > in May Dr Dobbs Journal. He discusses the adverse > impacts of Intel's recommended work-arounds (one of which we use). When the bug was first described there was wide difference of opinion on how it "should" be fixed. A more efficient way of doing it would doubtlessly be a good thing, however given that no one who wanted a better way to solve the problem has coded it yet, I don't anticipate it happening any time soon. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 20:15:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles241.castles.com [208.214.165.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19101 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05964; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805180210.TAA05964@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Polstra cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 May 1998 15:08:54 PDT." <199805172208.PAA07702@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:10:01 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > cvs -R > > > > > > > > Naturally, avoid doing this while CVSup is running. > > > > > > CVSup neither creates locks nor pays any attention to them. > > > > Exactly. > > I figured you knew all about that. But I wanted to make sure folks > realized that the "-R" flag to CVS doesn't make any difference as far > as CVSup is concerned. In general, it's best to avoid CVS operations > while CVSup is updating the repository. CVSup is careful to update > each individual file atomically. But that's not always enough, e.g., > if you're trying to do a commit on the client side at the same time. That was what I meant to infer, but you're right, more verbiage would have been better. How difficult would it be for CVSup to lock the entire repository while it's running? Is it worth the effort? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 20:42:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23079 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05457; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA22777; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:42:24 -0600 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:42:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199805180342.VAA22777@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: John Polstra , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-Reply-To: <199805180210.TAA05964@antipodes.cdrom.com> References: <199805172208.PAA07702@austin.polstra.com> <199805180210.TAA05964@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How difficult would it be for CVSup to lock the entire repository while > it's running? Is it worth the effort? Easy, but expensive, since CVS doesn't use a global lock for all commits. It would have to lock every directory in the entire tree down, something CVS isn't willing to do. However, as time and millions of commits have proven, not 'global' locking the tree down *rarely* (< .001%) causes any problems. Terry will pipe up now and try to get us to optimize the rare case, but as any good engineer nows that penalizes the standard case for the rare case is always a bad idea. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 20:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24489 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24470 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 20:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 1837 invoked by uid 1017); 18 May 1998 02:49:46 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:49:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Terry Lambert cc: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DHCP In-Reply-To: <199805172046.NAA29488@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > By default, you will want to disable all ports (ports map to services), > and enable ports on a case-by-case basis, per machine. This will need to be done afer DHCP is loaded, or else you'll never get off the ground. rc.firewall I would think would need to allow lo0 packets and anything from the DHCP server, then after getting your addresses and such, build another firewall script dynamically that is more stringent. > The above all presumes, of course, that you are running the DHCP server > on the FreeBSD box, and NOT on the NT box. If you need to run the DHCP > server on the NT box, then you will be forced to buy a third party > firewall package from someone who has probably paid a *LOT* of money > to license NT source code, and wants to make that money back. Given > NT source license fees, I'd expect the price to be in the tens of > thousands of dollars. > Note: there is Samba code that allows a FreeBSD box to act as an NT > domain controller, so if the reason you have to use NT is because of > domain controller services, then you don't have to use NT like you > thought you did. This is still BETA at best, and not very useful for a production environment. Still, it is a great first step. Once it is fully functional, adminning these crap-o `95 machines will be MUCH nicer! Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 21:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01815 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 21:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA06531 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id AAA06018 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:42:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: system config database... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For general comment, exp for JKH: I've been putting brain power into the issue of a configuration system for /etc. I have done something along this path with M4 for a similar purpose. Is M4 too weird to use for something of this scope? (me, I love M4 but it has problems) I do not want to get rid of any of the 'standard' /etc files. This would seem to create additional confusion for immigrants and the like. I am thinking of a default config and a site config (possibly multiple site configs, good for porto users). The defaults will be used when site configs are not specified. Should there be a /config, or a /etc/config? (me, /config) Should I look at adding a statically linked compiled program for boot time generation of /etc files or strictly a shell? (me, non-shell) Some way of having the boot loader pass a site option to the kernel which then becomes either a sysctl or an ENV for use by the configurator? This would be attachable to a unified text or X based editing system that can become a very nice interface for users of new and old vintage. Not to the exculsion of direct vi interaction though. Any thoughts? Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 22:11:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05936 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05923 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA25444; Sun, 17 May 1998 22:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd025442; Mon May 18 05:01:43 1998 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP & Softupdates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > > > [opsys@pinkfloyd 05-17-1998 2:17pm] ~>mount > /dev/sd0s1a on / (local, writes: sync 156 async 26200)) > /dev/sd1s1f on /home (local, noatime, soft-updates, writes: sync 59 async > 70204)) > /dev/sd0s1e on /usr (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 14048)) > /dev/sd1s1e on /usr/X11R6 (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async > 1002)) > /dev/sd0s1g on /usr/obj (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 159)) > /dev/sd0s1f on /usr/src (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 964)) > /dev/sd0s1h on /var (local, soft-updates, writes: sync 2 async 31006)) > procfs on /proc (local) > > As you can see the only thing I have mounted ASYNC & SU is /home no you don't.. the 'async' you see there is the reporting of async stats. > I had it running async for squid after SU didnt like me a few days ago, so > i switched it from SU to async and ran a normal kernel with async for > squid on /home. Now im back to running a SU kernel on accident and its > mounted async. as I said.. no it isn't .. look again. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 17 23:09:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 23:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA13821 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 23:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA06547; Mon, 18 May 1998 06:24:47 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199805180424.GAA06547@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: bad behaviour in slow start To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:24:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, pantzer@ludd.luth.se, dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805172027.OAA21873@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 98 02:26:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The problem is that you can't detect if the other computer is a local peer > > > or not, there may be routers in the path to it even if the netmask tells > > > you that it is on the same subnet. It isn't even true on the ethernet > > > level any more, switches create the same problems as a router. > > > > It sounds as if you need a mechanism for marking interfaces as > > local or non-local. > > Too much domain-specific information. It may be local or non-local, > depending on what network is hooked up. (Think networks that do > fail-over to different media.) Even in the "local" case, the network being fast or slow does make a difference. Blasting a full window at startup on a 28.8/33.6 ppp link is not advisable. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 00:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28493 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28477 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01768 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199805180739.AAA01768@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.ice.com/java/jcvs/index.shtml Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:39:40 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a cool java cvs client which I have been using for a while now. Hope that someone finds it interesting and extends it. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 00:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA29569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bird.te.rl.ac.uk (bird.te.rl.ac.uk [130.246.19.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29549 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:54:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Received: from rcru.rl.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bird.te.rl.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22480; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:53:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Message-Id: <199805180753.IAA22480@bird.te.rl.ac.uk> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk Subject: /dev/io access. Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:53:53 +0100 From: Mark Blackman Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I've noticed that there is a small discrepancy between what the io(4) man page says and what the source for 2.2.6 does. In the course of doing some preliminary userland communication with a custom bit of hardware (10MHz A/D PCI card), I find that my code cannot write to an I/O port address unless it's run with uid=0. The man page io(4) says ... " The entire access control is handled by the file access permissions of /dev/io, so care should be taken in granting rights for this device. Note that even read/only access will grant the full I/O privileges. " The source code (/usr/src/sys/i386/i386/mem.c) says.. in "mmopen", case 14 being the "io" device I believe. case 14: error = suser(p->p_ucred, &p->p_acflag); if (error != 0) return (error); if (securelevel > 0) return (EPERM); fp = (struct trapframe *)curproc->p_md.md_regs; fp->tf_eflags |= PSL_IOPL; break; The "suser" call appears to enforce a root-only access policy to the I/O port addresses. I assume there was a change of philosophy between the man page being written and 2.2.6? There are two trivial work-arounds, i.e. run uid=0 or change my version of the system. However, I would like to be briefly acquainted with the reasoning for this change though if anyone is feeling generous with their time. Note that pciconf.c is similarly restricted. Regards, ************************************************************************* * Mark Blackman * * Radar Group * * Radio Communications Research Unit * * Rutherford Appleton Laboratory E-mail: tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk * * Chilton, Didcot Tel: +44-1235-446126 * * Oxon OX11 0QX, United Kingdom Fax: +44-1235-446140 * ************************************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 04:02:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 04:02:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28523 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 04:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from EXIT10 (i485-gw.cetlink.net [209.198.15.97]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14649; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Studded Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium F00F bug Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:04:17 GMT Message-ID: <3560142c.148871306@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199805172218.IAA03007@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> <355F9294.580BB181@dal.net> In-Reply-To: <355F9294.580BB181@dal.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA28524 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 17 May 1998 18:44:52 -0700, Studded wrote: > When the bug was first described there was wide difference of opinion >on how it "should" be fixed. A more efficient way of doing it would >doubtlessly be a good thing, however given that no one who wanted a >better way to solve the problem has coded it yet, I don't anticipate it >happening any time soon. :) On about 97-12-01 BSDI released a revised F00F patch for BSD/OS 2.1. Someone with a BSD/OS source license could look and see what they did. > >PATCH: > K210-031 > >SUMMARY: > This mod implements a simpler fix to the Intel Pentium and > Pentium/MMX invalid instruction hang. The fix changes the > way the IDT is used by the CPU such that there is no run > time performance penalty, even for the less used interrupts > that were emulated by K210-030. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 05:04:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10195 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.10] (user10.dataplex.net [208.2.87.10]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06035; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:02:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:00:18 -0500 To: Dan Janowski From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: system config database... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:42 PM -0500 5/17/98, Dan Janowski wrote: >Should there be a /config, or a /etc/config? >(me, /config) > >Should I look at adding a statically linked >compiled program for boot time generation of >/etc files or strictly a shell? >(me, non-shell) > >Some way of having the boot loader pass a >site option to the kernel which then becomes >either a sysctl or an ENV for use by the >configurator? > >This would be attachable to a unified text or >X based editing system that can become a very >nice interface for users of new and old vintage. >Not to the exculsion of direct vi interaction though. > >Any thoughts? 1. Please do not pollute the root with yet another directory. There are already too many. "/" should be reserved for system mount points and those few files that are necessary to get started in the bootstrap process. 2. I have no problem with an "m4" based configuration generation tool. However, if I understand your intent, m4 is not appropriate for use in the boot process. The boot process needs to be "lean and mean" Just grab your parameters and run. There may be scenarios where dynamic regeneration of the configuration needs to be done in the later stages of the boot process. However, this should not be the default case. Richard Wackerbarth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 07:03:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13023 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:03:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13013 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Mon May 18 09:03 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA01394 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:02:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:02:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: al@cn.ua Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FreeBSD in embeded systems? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:02:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Alexey Lukin[SMTP:al@cn.ua] > >> As has been said on -hackers, there are IDE-like fllash cards. >> a friend of mine has built a bsd/os based router using one. >> I have bcc'ed this to him to see if he wishes to contribute. > >Well, it's a good "first step" solution for router but it has 2 main >drawbacks for embeded systems in general: > >1) kernel gets biger with IDE drivers, and Memory is really cheap now and flash cards are big enough. >2) booting time gets >unacceptable for embeded systems. >Imagine systen with watchdog timer: it should be ready after hardware >reset in a very short time, but >BIOS and kernel "thinks" appr 60-80 sec on IDE devices. Too long for my >applications. Try to get a CISCO router and watch how long does it take to boot. :-) You can easily add the signaling to watchdog device to the probe/attach code of IDE drivers. If you want somewhat redundant, you will need two machines anyway. And, if you are going only to boot the kernel with MFS from IDE device and make no references to it later, you don't have to include the UDE drivers into the kernel. By the way, don't forget about BIOS boot-up time. >Well, yet another little silly thing - fsck on real filesystem. It may >wait for maintainer forever :-) Huh ? Why would you need fsck in an embedded system ? It's quite enough to use some raw storage for configuration and log file(s). >Yet another problem with FreeBSD in embeded systems: gziped kernel and >binaries >are not supported as standard feature. Well, it's not a big deal, but >flash chips are expensive yet. I'm not sure about kernel but the binaries surely are. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 07:19:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15956 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Mon May 18 09:00 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA20890 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:19:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:19:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, danj@3skel.com Subject: RE: system config database... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:19:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Dan Janowski[SMTP:danj@3skel.com] > > I do not want to get rid of any of the 'standard' > /etc files. This would seem to create additional > confusion for immigrants and the like. > Right! > I am thinking of a default config and a site config > (possibly multiple site configs, good for porto users). > The defaults will be used when site configs are > not specified. > > Should there be a /config, or a /etc/config? > (me, /config) > > Should I look at adding a statically linked > compiled program for boot time generation of > /etc files or strictly a shell? > (me, non-shell) > A pseudo-filesystem like /proc would seem to be the best solution for me. For prototype, I think there is no difference. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 09:22:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06464 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06446 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27852; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 00:42:42 EDT." Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:22:16 -0700 Message-ID: <27848.895508536@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been putting brain power into > the issue of a configuration system for /etc. > I have done something along this path with > M4 for a similar purpose. > > Is M4 too weird to use for something of this > scope? No, I don't think so, though it's also pretty damn cryptic and I'd hope that any future standard for /etc would emphasise both flexibility AND ease of use since the average skill level of the Unix population is only steadily declining. M4 is powerful, few would deny that, but it's also cryptic as hell. If I had my druthers, there would be a single text file in /etc which stored all the configuration data for system startup. People wouldn't (generally) be expected to edit it directly but rather use one or more browsing tools for displaying and editing each "startup object" in a friendlier form, that perhaps looking something like this: name: amd desc: The Auto Mount Daemon for NFS filesystems. enabled: no class: net order: 9 requires: is_enabled nfs_client && is_enabled network v_exec: amd v_flags: -a /net -c 1800 -k i386 -d ${domain} -l syslog /host /etc/amd.map command: ${v_exec} ${v_flags} The attribute names are somewhat contrived, but basically you want each startup entity to be something which describes itself (thus eliminating the grotty in-line comments in /etc/rc.conf) and gives you sufficient hints about when to invoke it in the startup sequence (the class and order attrs). Everything which is ``enabled'' and matches its requirements check, something which could just be a line of sh(1) using a bunch of handy provided shell functions like ``is_enabled'' to prevent its becoming rapidly unreadable, gets its "command" executed. Attributes like v_foo would be just temporary variables used to make changing things easier and could be skipped in the interests of more concise entries. Somewhere, of course, you'd have a global object which defined attributes of its own for controlling the overall ordering of classes, e.g. "fs swap serial net cleanup quotas user", and so on. Browsers could inspect this object for hints on how and where to display the rest of the objects and also perhaps store their metadata here. Needless to say, I also see such a system _replacing_ the current one and available as an option, just as upgrading one's /etc mechanisms has essentially always been. I've seen 2.1 systems using their old /etc dirs after being upgraded to 3.0 no problems - as long as it's still self-consistent and nobody tried to upgrade just half of it or something, it works. That means that the purists can choose whichever suits them and I suppose that we could even make the choice an installation option. Unless you want to play some very clever and bizarre tricks with an "etcfs" using portals or some such, going for full backwards compatability is going to be nothing more than an impediment to doing this. It's technically possible, sure, but also annoying enough that it's more likely that you'd simply punt the project before making it do all the good things that a new startup configuration mechanism should do and be also fully backwards compatible with all the old files. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 10:15:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16106 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:15:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16049 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:14:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA07506; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA22771; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-Reply-To: <27848.895508536@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is in line with my current thinking. As sick as this may sound, it will be a little smit-ish (ever use AIX?). Me thinks the major parsing and generation of directives (what should happen next) should not be shell based; too hazardous. It seems that there still a need for a per service set of scripted instruction for startup. An /etc/rc.d with mini-scripts for features. Some similarites with SysV, but with out rc2.d rc1.d. Encapsulation and easy interface to the meta-data through a static binary that will run the boot process, allow for general queries and updates. It would be an atomic replacement for the current rc stuff, but not to spell a dead end for the old way, as you suggest. Dan On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [snip] > (generally) be expected to edit it directly but rather use one or more > browsing tools for displaying and editing each "startup object" in a > friendlier form, that perhaps looking something like this: > > name: amd > desc: The Auto Mount Daemon for NFS filesystems. > enabled: no > class: net > order: 9 > requires: is_enabled nfs_client && is_enabled network > v_exec: amd > v_flags: -a /net -c 1800 -k i386 -d ${domain} -l syslog /host /etc/amd.map > command: ${v_exec} ${v_flags} > > The attribute names are somewhat contrived, but basically you want > each startup entity to be something which describes itself (thus > eliminating the grotty in-line comments in /etc/rc.conf) and gives you [snip] -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 10:51:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24957 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24924 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28196; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:50 EDT." Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:50:53 -0700 Message-ID: <28192.895513853@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems that there still a need for a per service > set of scripted instruction for startup. I'm not arguing that at all, I'm simply saying that the current system needlessly separates the configuration data from the actions associated with it. It's like having a shopping list where on one side you have "items to get: 1, 3, 2, 6, 9 and 5" and on the other you have "1 = milk, 2 = celery, 3 = ..." :-) The information needs to be combined and sh unfortunately isn't really "expressive" enough for that - a metaformat which gets compiled into sh or is even run by some sort of helper program, e.g. /etc/rc becomes a one liner: /sbin/systemrc /etc/rc.sys > An /etc/rc.d with mini-scripts for features. Some Ick, no, wrong direction again! ;-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 11:01:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26510 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12103 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199805181801.LAA12103@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:42:24 -0600 >From: Nate Williams >Terry will pipe up now and try to get us to optimize the rare >case, but as any good engineer nows that penalizes the standard >case for the rare case is always a bad idea. I'm certainly not even going to try to speak for Terry (or anyone else but me). That said, I'll agree that optimizing for the rare case isn't generally appropriate, but ensuring that all cases (even rare ones) are handled *correctly*, is nearly always worthwhile. MHO, of course. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 11:09:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29236 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:09:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29182 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id OAA07586; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (danj@localhost) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA23006; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Janowski To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-Reply-To: <28192.895513853@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG About 90% of what has to get done at startup is a simple invocation with dependancies and order being the only constraints. These can be encapsulated in a configuration. There are a few things that are too arbitrary, mostly cleanup stuff like ptmp, and vi -r. Those things seem better in their own scripts, no? For these purposes, the meta-file could call a script just as easily as anything else. Dan On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > It seems that there still a need for a per service > > set of scripted instruction for startup. > > I'm not arguing that at all, I'm simply saying that the current system > needlessly separates the configuration data from the actions > associated with it. It's like having a shopping list where on one > side you have "items to get: 1, 3, 2, 6, 9 and 5" and on the other you > have "1 = milk, 2 = celery, 3 = ..." :-) > > The information needs to be combined and sh unfortunately isn't really > "expressive" enough for that - a metaformat which gets compiled into > sh or is even run by some sort of helper program, e.g. /etc/rc becomes > a one liner: > > /sbin/systemrc /etc/rc.sys > > > An /etc/rc.d with mini-scripts for features. Some > > Ick, no, wrong direction again! ;-) > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 11:20:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02522 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02401 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28335; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Dan Janowski cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 14:09:29 EDT." Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <28331.895515604@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > in a configuration. There are a few things that are > too arbitrary, mostly cleanup stuff like ptmp, and vi -r. > Those things seem better in their own scripts, no? No. :) If you're going to offer one-stop shopping then you need to just toss an umbrella over it all. The proliferation of little scripts which "just don't quite fit" into the overall framework is what makes debugging a system startup failure such a bear on the more complex rc.d-using systems and what we want to avoid. You want to think of the entire startup process, from init's first gasp to the very last "rc.local" type of action, as a single system with a decent API for adding, deleting and editing the objects it manages. Anything less ambitious just isn't worth accepting all the transition shock hassles for, IMHO, and that's speaking as someone who's inflicted fairly major transition shock on the user base not just once but _twice_ (/etc/sysconfig followed by /etc/rc.conf) for what, in hindsight, wasn't that much of a gain. If I had it to do over, I'd have either just left the pre-sysconfig mechnanisms completely alone or gone for broke and fixed it once and for all in a far more elegant fashion. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 12:50:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14391 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:50:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (root@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14336 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21484; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021438; Mon May 18 11:52:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09616; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:52:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805181852.LAA09616@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:52:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805180342.VAA22777@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at May 17, 98 09:42:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > However, as time and millions of commits have proven, not 'global' > locking the tree down *rarely* (< .001%) causes any problems. Terry > will pipe up now and try to get us to optimize the rare case, but as any > good engineer nows that penalizes the standard case for the rare case is > always a bad idea. So are trees that don't build because the people checking code in can't be trusted to do the requisite test compiled before typing "cvs commit". If you have a situation where an unenforced protocol is being violated, how do you propose to stop the violations without enforcement? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 13:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17322 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11276; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:01:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA25464; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:01:54 -0600 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:01:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199805182001.OAA25464@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: David Wolfskill Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-Reply-To: <199805181801.LAA12103@pau-amma.whistle.com> References: <199805181801.LAA12103@pau-amma.whistle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Terry will pipe up now and try to get us to optimize the rare > >case, but as any good engineer nows that penalizes the standard > >case for the rare case is always a bad idea. > > I'm certainly not even going to try to speak for Terry (or anyone else > but me). > > That said, I'll agree that optimizing for the rare case isn't generally > appropriate, but ensuring that all cases (even rare ones) are handled > *correctly*, is nearly always worthwhile. When correctness involves human behavior, you can't optimize for it, nor guarantee that it will always work. In other words, trying to gain 100% computer correctness is a bad thing when 5% of the time the incorrectness is due to human error (and unavoidable given the current resources) then it makes no sense to try to optimize any more past that point. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 13:16:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21212 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21090 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00602 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:14:58 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199805182014.NAA00602@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:01:54 -0600 >From: Nate Williams >When correctness involves human behavior, you can't optimize for it, nor >guarantee that it will always work. In other words, trying to gain 100% >computer correctness is a bad thing when 5% of the time the >incorrectness is due to human error (and unavoidable given the current >resources) then it makes no sense to try to optimize any more past that >point. It may well be that this will remain an issue about which reasonable folks can agree to disagree, and I am willing to accept that. I believe that, once again, "it depends". In the case of human behavior, I would be willing to accept that if the human behavior in question is possible because of either root or physical access to the machine, preventing fairly arbitrary "bad things" from happening is, indeed, impossible. However, if a non-root user with no physical access to the machine can cause undefined behavior, that's a bit beyond the level that I am willing to accept, and I will do what I can to help ensure that the system either runs correctly or (as a desperation maneuver) fails as gracefully as possible. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 13:18:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21957 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21821 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16367; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd016362; Mon May 18 20:15:06 1998 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: eng@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: talk (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:45:04 -0700 From: Anne Urban To: colen@San-Jose.ate.slb.com, decker@alumni.caltech.edu, joeld@engr.sgi.com, julian@whistle.com, ktl@hyperparallel.com, markv@pixar.com, nitzberg@netcom.com Subject: talk >From owner-colloq-local-list@lists.Stanford.EDU Fri May 15 20:35 PDT 1998 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:43:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Andreas Paepcke To: colloq@cs.stanford.edu Subject: Talk: Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing On Wednesday, May 20, 1998, we will host a talk by Dr. Deborah Wallach of DEC WRL. It will take place in the Stanford Gates Building, Rm B03 in the basement. Time: 3:15. For those interested, there will be a demo in Room 104 at 4:15, after the talk. Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing Deborah A. Wallach, DEC WRL The "Itsy Pocket Computer" is a small handheld computer based on the low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio codec, and up to 64MB of memory. Itsy is designed to be an open platform for research projects ranging from OS power management to novel gesture and speech-based user interfaces. The base Itsy hardware provides a flexible interface for adding a custom daughtercard, enabling a wide range of hardware projects such as wireless networking and GPS. Itsy also supports the Linux OS and standard GNU tools, facilitating the development of both kernel and application software, as well as ports of existing packages such as Apache. Deborah A. Wallach received her S.B., S.M., and Ph.D. degrees in Computer Science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where she worked in a variety of areas including massively parallel computer architecture, distributed systems, operating systems, and networks. Dr. Wallach has been a member of the research staff in the Western Research Laboratory since March 1997. Currently she is interested in several aspects of mobile computing, especially applications, operating systems, and user interfaces for portable hand-held devices. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message was sent via the Stanford Computer Science Department | | colloquium mailing list. To be added to this list send an arbitrary | | message to colloq-subscribe@cs.stanford.edu. To be removed from this list,| | send a message to colloq-unsubscribe@cs.stanford.edu. For more information,| | send an arbitrary message to colloq-request@cs.stanford.edu. For directions| | to Stanford, check out http://www-forum.stanford.edu | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------xcl+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 13:57:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02246 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02118 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:56:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA10009 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver problem with 2.2.6 upgrade (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Report from the front line: Looks like the matcd changes worked, at least for this person. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:16:14 +1000 (EST) From: Justin Giles-Clark To: Freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Studded Subject: Re: Device driver problem with 2.2.6 upgrade Dear all, At 23:50 12/05/98 -0700, Doug wrote: > > A fix for what I hope is your problem was committed either yesterday or >today. Try the very latest version of the boot floppy on ftp.freebsd.org >and please report back whether that works for you. > Downloaded updated floppy and it now works. Interestingly it mounts the matcd0a driver not the matcd0c. Upgrade was a complete success! Regards ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: J.GilesClark@dpac.tas.gov.au (Justin Giles-Clark) Information Systems Branch - Systems and Network Administrator. Dept of Premier & Cabinet GPO Box 123b, Hobart, Tasmania, 7001, AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 362 332 976 Fax: +61 362 348 691 Mobile: +61 419 327 712 ------------------- 'tremendum et fascinans' ---------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 14:37:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from strife.net (bh@strife.net [206.244.73.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10170 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@strife.net) From: bh@strife.net Received: (from bh@localhost) by strife.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07120; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:37:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bh) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:37:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199805181737.MAA07120@strife.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-URL: file://localhost/usr/share/doc/handbook/handbook5.html X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.7.2 X-Personal_name: Brad Hall Subject: file://localhost/usr/share/doc/handbook/handbook5.html Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 15:15:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19444 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:15:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19316 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00940; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:16:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:16:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Dan Janowski , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-Reply-To: <28331.895515604@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > If you're going to offer one-stop shopping then you need to just toss > an umbrella over it all. The proliferation of little scripts which > "just don't quite fit" into the overall framework is what makes > debugging a system startup failure such a bear on the more complex > rc.d-using systems and what we want to avoid. You want to think of > the entire startup process, from init's first gasp to the very last > "rc.local" type of action, as a single system with a decent API for > adding, deleting and editing the objects it manages. I'll put my 0.02pln into this: I've been thinking lately about something similar, in light of recent discussions on building a FreeBSD-based router box... One can argue for or against the Cisco IOS interface, but it has exactly this feature: all configuration is stored in just one file, and even though you don't edit it directly, it's still readable... It would be great to have something like this _instead_ of the whole /etc. As it is now, it's a nightmare for any tool to build consistent config files from user-supplied parameters - it needs to parse, edit, re-create several config files, each with it's own different syntax... Also, current scheme is inefficient IMHO (especially when system is low on memory) - each script starts a shell... Anyway, if you go in the direction of single config file, I'm with you... :-) Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 16:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ranma.nectar.com (htruth.communique.net [204.27.67.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04621 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@ranma.nectar.com) Received: from ranma.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ranma.nectar.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06737; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:06:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805181806.NAA06737@ranma.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-Pgp-Rsafprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-Pgp-Rsakey: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x094724A9 From: Jacques Vidrine To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Dan Janowski , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <27848.895508536@time.cdrom.com> References: <27848.895508536@time.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: system config database... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:06:01 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Time for a DTD for FreeBSD Configuration XML? Jacques Vidrine On 18 May 1998 at 9:22, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: [snip] > If I had my druthers, there would be a single text file in /etc which > stored all the configuration data for system startup. People wouldn't > (generally) be expected to edit it directly but rather use one or more > browsing tools for displaying and editing each "startup object" in a > friendlier form, that perhaps looking something like this: > > name: amd > desc: The Auto Mount Daemon for NFS filesystems. > enabled: no > class: net > order: 9 > requires: is_enabled nfs_client && is_enabled network > v_exec: amd > v_flags: -a /net -c 1800 -k i386 -d ${domain} -l syslog /host /etc/amd.map > command: ${v_exec} ${v_flags} [snip] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNWB4iTeRhT8JRySpAQEFQgQAtnm2yYsoZq6WJ9dT/JXOp1eP/3cSQGU9 92dJGi8oiybEbQZF7LeBsXYErr1XWCfLhzx8/x30MKcLAYdI9tlBkCI+IBy64aTg v+n4UScU4aX8ueXly2aSfm+0gmqu5N+kDFbXnfnL9wtFxQprvdDA24nMf05qAomc Nze5Miq5pog= =3mpv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 17:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:55:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27272 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05282; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Dan Janowski , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 May 1998 13:06:01 CDT." <199805181806.NAA06737@ranma.nectar.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:54:19 -0700 Message-ID: <5278.895539259@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Time for a DTD for FreeBSD Configuration XML? No. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 18:01:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28937 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (Z1a4bJy5lwP1ytV6BLNuf0OXAzcckUTR@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28648 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id TAA18382 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:59:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01190 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:46:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:46:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: system config database... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > >This is in line with my current thinking. As sick >as this may sound, it will be a little smit-ish >(ever use AIX?). Me thinks the major parsing and >generation of directives (what should happen next) >should not be shell based; too hazardous. I've also been thinking about this. I don't think SMIT is so sick, though it isn't very elegant. I think Jordan's idea is good with the addition of methods for controlling daemons, etc. Would this mean we would have to have an ODMish "predefined" db and a "customized" db so the user wouldn't need to understand the mechanics of the changes he makes? To be valuable, though, a tool should generate "standard" rc.* files and also be able to parse them in case they've been changed by hand. >It seems that there still a need for a per service >set of scripted instruction for startup. >An /etc/rc.d with mini-scripts for features. Some For god's sake, don't do that. What's wrong with an ODM that can be parsed and generate standard rc.* files? Unique scripts can be tucked off in a place like /etc/conf/sbin or some such and used only by the SMITtish type tool. >similarites with SysV, but with out rc2.d rc1.d. > >Encapsulation and easy interface to the meta-data >through a static binary that will run the >boot process, allow for general queries and >updates. I'm not sure I understood what you just said -- but why tie it to the boot process? Queries, updates should be made against the configuration database. Updates should be made to the db and generate "standard" rc files. >It would be an atomic replacement for >the current rc stuff, but not to spell >a dead end for the old way, as you suggest. Giving up the ability to control the system by hand would be, I think, a mistake. For someone coming off a SunOS system, AIX/LVM/ODM is a bitch. I'd like to see the two approaches work smoothly together. And, I know it's easier said than done. What we have may not be elegant, but it isn't broken. I would hate to break it. Even AIX gives you the option of BSD style configuration. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 18:29:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sierra.psnw.com (root@sierra.psnw.com [205.199.144.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03606; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from byron@dbs-ca.com) Received: from dbs-ca.com (ct1-01.psnw.com [206.43.246.1]) by sierra.psnw.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11115; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3560DF7D.C6100921@dbs-ca.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:25:17 -0700 From: Byron Johnson Organization: Diversified Benefit Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [byron@dbs-ca.com: FreeBSD install] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Using FreeBSD 2.2.6 486-66 w/ 32Mb, 486SV2G M/B, 3Com 509b & Linksys Ether16 (NE2000 compatible), Orchid Kelvin-EZ VLB SVGA, SIIG IDE & I/O card, NEC IDE CD-ROM, WD Caviar 2540 HD, Colorado 250 Mb TBU w/ card, cooling card, 3.5" floppy. What else? s/ BYRON Julian Elischer wrote: > BTW some version info & H/W info might help.. > > On Sat, 16 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > > > I got a call tonight from this guy, Byron Johnson. He is trying to install > > on to his system. This is his reply to my suggestions. > > > > >Thanks for taking the call tonight. I did the floppy thing instead of > > >the CD, but I'm still toast! The result is exactly the same as coming > > >of the CD: > > > > > >At the blue screen, when the dialog box is showing "Probing devices, > > >please wait..." > > >I then get the following error: > > > panic: vm_fault: fault on nofault entry, addr: f3140000 > > > > > >And it reboots after waiting 15 seconds and my life ends there! > > >What's a next best guess? > > > > > > > > > I'm stumped as to what is the problem. Any one see this one? > > > > > > Josef > > > > -- > > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.6 > > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 18:44:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onion.ish.org (root@onion.ish.org [210.145.219.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06253 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ishizuka@ish.org) Received: from localhost (ishizuka@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by onion.ish.org (8.8.8/3.6Wbeta7-04/20/98) with ESMTP id KAA06147 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:02:24 +0900 (JST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: umountall request from unprivileged por X-PGP-Fingerprint20: CE15 1ABE 49EA 3182 C0A9 20F6 C054 2821 5C22 D9DB X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.ish.org/pgp-public-key.txt X-URL: http://www.ish.org/ Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93b33 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980519100223U.ishizuka@onion.ish.org> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:02:23 +0900 From: Masachika ISHIZUKA X-Dispatcher: imput version 980506 Lines: 14 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. I upgraded to 3.0-980426-SNAP and the following messages can be found in /var/log/messages. What do they mean ? | May 17 03:07:49 onion mountd[123]: umountall request from 210.145.219.202 | from unprivileged port "onion" is the machine installed 3.0-980426-SNAP, and 210.145.219.202 is the ip address of onion. --- ishizuka@ish.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 19:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12787 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08741; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199805190217.TAA08741@austin.polstra.com> To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: g++ new allocator In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:17:31 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Chuck Robey wrote: > On Sun, 17 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Sat, 16 May 1998 at 10:20:38 -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Does anyone know if the "new" operator, using g++, uses it's own > > > allocator, or PHK's libc malloc? I have a problem I'm trying to shoot > > > that uses the libstdc++ and sigbus's, and I was wondering which route > > > the code is going. > > > > My understanding is that it uses whichever malloc is bound in with the > > executable. > > ... Umm ... it's built using our libstdc++ (I just compiled it). The > question is what malloc does the g++ using our own libstdc++ (on > current, actually) use? I didn't post this to current because I didn't > think it applied only to current. > > I guess I don't understand what you mean by "whichever malloc is bound > in with the executable", if I'm doing the binding here. I'm 99% certain it uses malloc. But you can easily find out for sure with a simple experiment. Create a tiny C++ program that allocates something with "new". Compile it for debugging. Run it under the debugger and set a breakpoint on "malloc". Look at the stack trace and see whether it's being called from new. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 22:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11289 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11260 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13178; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:09:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd013162; Mon May 18 22:09:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA28706; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:09:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805190509.WAA28706@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: system config database... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 05:09:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: danj@3skel.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <28192.895513853@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 18, 98 10:50:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The information needs to be combined and sh unfortunately isn't really > "expressive" enough for that - a metaformat which gets compiled into > sh or is even run by some sort of helper program, e.g. /etc/rc becomes > a one liner: > > /sbin/systemrc /etc/rc.sys So, we should statically link "make"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 18 22:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13513 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13420 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA12678; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012651; Mon May 18 22:19:50 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29227; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:19:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805190519.WAA29227@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 05:19:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dhw@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805182001.OAA25464@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at May 18, 98 02:01:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > When correctness involves human behavior, you can't optimize for it, Yes, you can. > nor guarantee that it will always work. You can constrain the cases that don't work to procedural pathways that result in your goals being met (at least eventually). > In other words, trying to gain 100% computer correctness is a bad > thing when 5% of the time the incorrectness is due to human error It's precisely the cases where human error is possible where you need to build procedural contraints to forestall the incorrectness. Would you settle for 95% of the CERT advisories handled, with "only" 5% of them falling through the cracks? This is exactly analogous, because in both cases the PR result is that FreeBSD looks bad. > (and unavoidable given the current resources) What resources do you think are needed? Give me your list; you already have mine... 8-). Maybe your list can be satisfied; there seems to be plenty of "new blood" recently; I'm sure they'd let you use them constructively. > then it makes no sense to try to optimize any more past that > point. Ever read "Insanely Great"? Or Demming's "Out of the Crisis"? Or "Total Quality Management"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 00:00:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04453 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04401 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA02785 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 03:00:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Anoyone know of "ERP" software for FreeBSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A local aerospace company is getting a new ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) software package, and their plans are for BAAN www.baan.com Has anyone ever seen a package like this availble for FreeBSD or had to implement such a thing? It is supposed to integrate with oracle. Just curious, didnt know if such a thing existed in BSD land. Chris -- "I don't do favors, I accumulate debts" ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 00:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07796 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07689; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20897; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:22:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980519102255.A20874@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:22:55 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: brian@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ppp - unused UDP socket? Mail-Followup-To: brian@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE (as of May 13). What this unbound UDP socket below for? Every ``ppp -direct'' uses it. USER PID PPID PGID SESS JOBC STAT TT TIME COMMAND root 20706 1 20706 13d1dc0 0 Ss+ c01 0:00.45 ppp -direct # fstat -p 20706 USER CMD PID FD MOUNT INUM MODE SZ|DV R/W root ppp 20706 wd / 2 drwxr-xr-x 512 r root ppp 20706 text /usr 345756 -r-sr-x--- 143360 r root ppp 20706 0 / 1105 crw------- cuac01 rw root ppp 20706 1 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r root ppp 20706 2 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r root ppp 20706 3 / 604 crw------- tun0 rw root ppp 20706 4* internet dgram udp f137b880 root ppp 20706 5* local dgram f0c90a94 <-> f0bc5114 root ppp 20706 6 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r # netstat -Aan -finet | grep f137b880 f137b880 udp 0 0 *.* *.* -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 01:32:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19749 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 01:32:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19706 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 01:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by mail.visint.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13154; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:31:51 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:31:10 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > The "Itsy Pocket Computer" is a small handheld computer based on the > low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our > current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and > sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio > codec, and up to 64MB of memory. So, how much do they cost ? > do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) I guess that would be a "No". Wasn't someone writing ARMbsd or RISCbsd or something.. did he die or did Intel pay him to stop or something ? [It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and no-one ever uses them, writing ARM is a damn sight easier than 80x86 code yet no-one ever writes for what seems to be a cheaper and far superior chipset.Please excuse my ranting, but I find this overmonopolised (sp?) industry this somewhat depressing.] Steve Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 02:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00264 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00245 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:31:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id CAA24138; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:30:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199805190930.CAA24138@dog.farm.org> To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199805180342.VAA22777@mt.sri.com> you wrote: > > How difficult would it be for CVSup to lock the entire repository while > > it's running? Is it worth the effort? > Easy, but expensive, since CVS doesn't use a global lock for all > commits. It would have to lock every directory in the entire tree down, > something CVS isn't willing to do. how about locking directory while updating its files? From cvsup logs, it looks like it always does a breadth-first traversal... so, it would require locking and unlocking {of each directory in which files were updated} only once. -- Others run "biff" to alert them about new mail. I run /bin/true To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 05:05:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26616 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 05:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (k6MytjjJj4IIoaPNzy89QaZjqvZ/6sOs@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA26609 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 05:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak72.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.72] ([OAmdS4843WfhRg39RruHbJV3eJPFesPZ]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ybl8R-0000IU-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:04:47 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak72.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ybl8P-0000Pr-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:04:45 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:04:44 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Question about -mdoc Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi hackers, Could anyone illuminate me as to how to achieve the following in -mdoc? Basically I want to have a bulleted list like this: X this is the text of the bulleted Y item asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd as das das dasd Or: X Y this is the text of the bulleted item asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd asd as das das dasd I tried using .Bl -tag -width Ds .It Xo X Y .Xc but that gives: X Y this is the text of the bulleted list asd asd asd asd asd asd asd Any ideas? Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 05:27:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00156 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 05:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from crocus.gamma.ru (crocus.gamma.ru [194.186.254.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29978 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ivt@crocus.gamma.ru) Received: (from ivt@localhost) by crocus.gamma.ru (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA16988; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:26:22 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199805191226.QAA16988@crocus.gamma.ru> Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag In-Reply-To: <199712051953.MAA16124@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 5, 97 07:53:14 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:26:22 +0400 (MSD) Cc: ivt@gamma.ru, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Igor Timkin" Organization: Gamma Ltd., Moscow, Russia X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > > outgoing feeds) crash: > > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > > or > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > [ ... ] > > > /dev/ccd0c /var/spool/news ufs rw,async,noatime,noexec,nosuid 0 2 > > [ ... ] > > > dev=0x1502, block=20372, fs=/var/spool/news > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > syncing disk > > (unfortunately at this point the system is freeze and I have > > make the hardware reset, so I don't have crash dump). > > [ ... ] > > > Any suggestion ? > > Short answer: > > Your options are: > > (1) Live with it > (2) Don't mount the device async > > Long Answer: > > Generally, this type of problem means you should rebuild the news spool, > since *any* corruption could result in invalid information on the disk > that could result in a panic. > > Most likely, you crashed once, and you expected fsck to do something > that it can't do reliably: recover an async mounted partition. The > partition was "recovered" and marked clean, but when you reference > a particular disk metadata construct, it goes off into the weeds > because the recovery was imperfect. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > I solved this problem. After upgrade 2.2.5-REL to 3.0-971225-SNAP my nntp server has uptime: 4:20PM up 38 days, 17:46, 7 users, load averages: 1.92, 1.68, 1.92 kernel configs and patches for 512M RAM are identical for both 2.2.5 and 3.0. No any panics. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 07:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01214 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 07:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01178 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 07:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04955; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:54:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Stephen Roome cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Stephen Roome wrote: > On Mon, 18 May 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > > The "Itsy Pocket Computer" is a small handheld computer based on the > > low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our > > current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and > > sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio > > codec, and up to 64MB of memory. > [It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and > no-one ever uses them, writing ARM is a damn sight easier than 80x86 code > yet no-one ever writes for what seems to be a cheaper and far superior > chipset.Please excuse my ranting, but I find this overmonopolised (sp?) > industry this somewhat depressing.] "Imagine that Cray computer decides to make a personal computer. It has a 150 MHz processor, 200 megabytes of RAM, 1500 megabytes of disk storage, a screen resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, relies entirely on voice recognition for input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300. What's the first question that the computer community asks? "'Is it PC compatible?'" Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 08:23:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05571 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.seidata.com (ns1.seidata.com [208.10.211.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05351 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@ns1.seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by ns1.seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA29966; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:20:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike To: Stephen Roome cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Stephen Roome wrote: > I guess that would be a "No". Wasn't someone writing ARMbsd or RISCbsd > or something.. did he die or did Intel pay him to stop or something ? *laff* The StrongARM is a 'souped up' RISC processor, right? Didn't they basically take a RISC chip, strip out a few select instructions (modified to run at super-low power) and add lots of cache? The now discontinued Apple Message Pad 2100 used the ARM at ~200MHz, I believe. Impressive. I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for Be and he's always ranting about it. :) > [It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and > no-one ever uses them, writing ARM is a damn sight easier than 80x86 Likewise, it always amazes me that there are so many better options than M$ and very few utilize them. Personally, I'm always interested in new ideas/ports/processes. Anything to work toward a 'bigger/badder/better' future. ;) -mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 08:30:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06962 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.imedia.ru (imedia.ru [212.248.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06727; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sergey@imedia.ru) Received: from gleam.imedia.ru ([172.17.0.87]) by proxy.imedia.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01780; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:29:23 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from sergey@imedia.ru) Message-ID: <011701bd833a$e6a114a0$570011ac@gleam.imedia.ru> From: "Sergey Vnotchneko" To: , Subject: Long login names in FreeBSD-2.2.6 or 2.2-STABLE Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:29:19 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I need to use 16-chars login names in system... Please advice what files I need fix & recompile for this. P.S.: Please reply directly to me too, I'm not on the list. Thanks, Sergey. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 08:43:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09383; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26918; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:41:04 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980519184104.A26864@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:41:04 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: brian@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp - unused UDP socket? Mail-Followup-To: brian@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <19980519102255.A20874@ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <19980519102255.A20874@ucb.crimea.ua>; from Ruslan Ermilov on Tue, May 19, 1998 at 10:22:55AM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! The PR/6690 contains the patch for RELENG_2_2 ppp which corrects the problem below. On Tue, May 19, 1998 at 10:22:55AM +0300, I wrote: > Hi! > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE (as of May 13). > > What this unbound UDP socket below for? > > Every ``ppp -direct'' uses it. > > USER PID PPID PGID SESS JOBC STAT TT TIME COMMAND > root 20706 1 20706 13d1dc0 0 Ss+ c01 0:00.45 ppp -direct > > # fstat -p 20706 > USER CMD PID FD MOUNT INUM MODE SZ|DV R/W > root ppp 20706 wd / 2 drwxr-xr-x 512 r > root ppp 20706 text /usr 345756 -r-sr-x--- 143360 r > root ppp 20706 0 / 1105 crw------- cuac01 rw > root ppp 20706 1 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > root ppp 20706 2 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > root ppp 20706 3 / 604 crw------- tun0 rw > root ppp 20706 4* internet dgram udp f137b880 > root ppp 20706 5* local dgram f0c90a94 <-> f0bc5114 > root ppp 20706 6 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > > # netstat -Aan -finet | grep f137b880 > f137b880 udp 0 0 *.* *.* -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 08:45:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:45:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic30.pm09.sf3d.best.com [209.24.239.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10308; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA21134; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980519084505.39067@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:45:06 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Sergey Vnotchneko Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Long login names in FreeBSD-2.2.6 or 2.2-STABLE Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <011701bd833a$e6a114a0$570011ac@gleam.imedia.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <011701bd833a$e6a114a0$570011ac@gleam.imedia.ru>; from Sergey Vnotchneko on Tue, May 19, 1998 at 07:29:19PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 19, 1998 at 07:29:19PM +0400, Sergey Vnotchneko wrote: > Hi! > > I need to use 16-chars login names in system... Please advice what files I > need fix & recompile > for this. > > P.S.: Please reply directly to me too, I'm not on the list. > > Thanks, Sergey. > > > Look at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ192.html Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.6 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 10:12:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28746 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.admis.com (mail.admis.com [208.192.111.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28700 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ras@interaccess.com) Received: from aps.admis-ods.com (aps.admis-ods.com [208.192.111.12]) by mail.admis.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.aa3w) with ESMTP id aa001040 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:12:00 -0500 From: "Chris Silva" To: Subject: xdm problem Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:14:30 -0500 Message-ID: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Info: ADM Investor Services, Inc. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi everyone, I evoke xdm -nodaemon & to test this (I've checked my tty's and vt3 is disabled, actually it don't say off, it says -nodaemon) Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill set to 1024 mode. TIA Chris _____________________________________________________________________ RSA Key Fingerprint = 6D0B 5536 7825 3D09 9093 384A 9694 FDB6 RSA Key Fingerprint = 4390 44E5 E316 F2AA A11E 5755 F3F9 D69B DH/DSS Fingerprint = 089B 0B5C 75C7 A7B4 B050 DD14 2D65 5DD6 E87D 239A PGP Mail encouraged / preferred - keys available on common keyservers _____________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.5.5 Comment: Out of NT, over the ISDN link, via my ISP - Nuthin' but net! iQEVAwUBNWG98P9tKFG94DNTAQE1Lwf/UC5uGRNZG8ZRUahlzv7Kr+Iy79kPaflw zql/2LKX51WGguFPp/4B2YtC/+wslLC52gQqbT0/k0d1XsezdEgiwQR2I8aqOSUa v47EeP7Gt1+w1YGgjlGQv6ZlWFlFvQHo7MmIlQKdOTV3PjjLE+GDH+43BwHc2YAe tq8RCbYzQNRhNzLtEByQ7hTzGVNUGZmh1IL97/bL5LJ5I7uMgB5vAxWaIlF2jcX+ DAT2rqhnIbnHiiaAnDpfvy1RO3+jzR7KWKKB6yMOs7KGRetjQkfKnHBBTfR2WOvr +zlAC3JksithvbZXGynWTuWRSlq/1kp2XghY2P7aFmyCYypSWxU8jg== =vnWb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 10:14:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:14:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2 (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29178 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08683 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:13:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 Reply-To: zhihuizhang To: hackers Subject: Simple Virtual Memory Questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe the following VM questions are simple to experts and hope one of them will help me out (simple answer is OK): (1) I think the linked address should be the virtual address. The kernel is linked at virtual address 0xf0100000 (specified by the linker option -T ) and loaded at 0x00100000 (that is the reason why the relocation macro R(foo) works in locore.s). So what is the meaning of KERNBASE (0xf0000000)? The kernel image should start at 0xf0100000, not 0xf0000000. Besides, we have constants like UPT_MIN_ADDRESS and UPT_MAX_ADDRESS which are even less than KERNBASE. Can anyone clarify the use of virtual memory address space in kernel for me? (2) In locore.s, we install a pde for a temporary double map of bottom of VA by the following statements: movl R(_KPTphys), %eax xorl %ebx, %ebx movl $1, %ecx fillkpt(R(_IdlePTD), $PG_RW) The mapping is cleared, if I am correct, in pmap_bootstrap() by the following statement: * (int *) PTD = 0; I have not found any usage of this mapping before it is cleared. Am I wrong? If yes, what is the usage for this temporary mapping? (3) In routine pmap_growkernel(), we have the following statement: *pmap_pde(kernel_pmap, kernel_vm_end) = pdir_pde(PTD, kernel_vm_end); Is this redundant? Because we already have a statement in the same routine (before the above statement) which says: pdir_pde(PTD, kernel_vm_end) = (pd_entry_t)(VM_PAGE_TO_PHYS(nkpg) | PG_V |PG_RW); Thanks a lot. ------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang 100 Roberts Street, Apt #21-6 Binghamton, NY 13901, U.S.A Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang ------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 10:44:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05111 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.lmsal.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA05076 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@sag.lmsal.com) Received: from localhost by sag.lmsal.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19May98-0849AM) id AA17650; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:44:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hardware Question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey Folks, I've got a guy who wants to buy a Gateway computer and install FreeBSD on it...any recent success stories out there on these? The things I don't know about are the Ultra ATA hard drives, the nVidia graphics card (I haven't checked the XFree86 site yet) and this Ensoniq wavetable sound card. Thanks, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 11:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08761 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17299 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:08:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:08:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: > [...] > I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm > blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for > Be and he's always ranting about it. :) He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th address regsiter is the default stack pointer. I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would have less problems today, I guess. I was very pleased when I got to know that 3Com's PalmPilot uses an 68328 ("DragonBall"), which is an 68000 plus a few extensions. > > > [It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and > > no-one ever uses them, writing ARM is a damn sight easier than 80x86 > > Likewise, it always amazes me that there are so many better options than > M$ and very few utilize them. Personally, I'm always interested in new > ideas/ports/processes. Anything to work toward a 'bigger/badder/better' > future. ;) Same here. :-) Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 11:14:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10126 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10090 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:14:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13076; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:13:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: ben@rosengart.com cc: Stephen Roome , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 10:54:55 EDT." Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:13:03 -0700 Message-ID: <13072.895601583@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Imagine that Cray computer decides to make a personal computer. It has > a 150 MHz processor, 200 megabytes of RAM, 1500 megabytes of disk > storage, a screen resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, relies entirely on > voice recognition for input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300. > What's the first question that the computer community asks? > > "'Is it PC compatible?'" No, that's the second question. The first question would be "where can I get one of these?" :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 12:23:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24953; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:23:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04668; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <3561DC07.FBC6ABDA@dal.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:22:47 -0700 From: Studded Reply-To: FreeBSD Questions Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com CC: Sergey Vnotchneko , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Long login names in FreeBSD-2.2.6 or 2.2-STABLE References: <011701bd833a$e6a114a0$570011ac@gleam.imedia.ru> <19980519084505.39067@mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First off, please don't post to both -questions and -hackers. This is a -questions question, please follow up there. :) Josef Grosch wrote: > > On Tue, May 19, 1998 at 07:29:19PM +0400, Sergey Vnotchneko wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I need to use 16-chars login names in system... Please advice what files I > > need fix & recompile > > for this. > > > > P.S.: Please reply directly to me too, I'm not on the list. > > > > Thanks, Sergey. > Look at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ192.html Unfortunately that response indicates that it's not possible to do on -Stable, which is not the case. I've been running with 16 character usernames on -Stable for more than 6 months. What you need to do is edit /usr/src/sys/sys/param.h and change MAXLOGNAME to 18. Then go to /usr/src/include/utmp.h and change UT_NAMESIZE to 16. Now make the world, when that's done make a new kernel. I would back up, then delete wtmp and utmp since the new username size will corrupt both files. Also, if you have other software installed that accesses usernames (ssh is one of the most common) you will want to recompile and reinstall it. That's all there is to it. There are some things in both -Stable and -Current that need to be twiddled to make this really clean though. For example there is a patch in PR (6325) to fix the output of w and make it dependent on UT_NAMESIZE, however it's still waiting for a committer (hint hint :). A similar fix would be nice for things like ps. Those things won't affect the functionality of your system though, just the aesthetics. Enjoy, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 12:26:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25821 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25780 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03992; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:24:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:24:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Chris Silva cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xdm problem In-Reply-To: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to > the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill > set to 1024 mode. What's /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-errors have in it? (you'll need to switch to the console to get in) Brett ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ But Master, does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? - Beavis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 12:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26934 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from localhost (crb@localhost) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07245; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:39:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) X-Authentication-Warning: quark.ChrisBowman.com: crb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" To: Chris Silva cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xdm problem In-Reply-To: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Chris Silva wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hi everyone, > I evoke xdm -nodaemon & to test this (I've checked my tty's and vt3 >is disabled, actually it don't say off, it says -nodaemon) > > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to >the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill >set to 1024 mode. Is your .xsession own by you, and read and executable by you? Is the last statement not forked? Have a look at your .xsession-errors file (if one exists) and also /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-errors. This should give you some cluse to at least look at. --------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com My home page To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 13:16:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com [199.94.215.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04909 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@am026091.res.ray.com) Received: from gatekeeper.ray.com (gatekeeper.ray.com [138.125.162.1]) by cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26034; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (mailer@localhost) by gatekeeper.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17124; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:45:11 -0400 Received: from am026091.res.ray.com/138.125.142.48() by gatekeeper.ray.com id sma.895606626.012360; Tue May 19 15:37:06 1998 Received: (from moncrg@localhost) by am026091.res.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08317; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:31:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from moncrg) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Message-Id: <199805192031.PAA08317@am026091.res.ray.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, handy@sag.lmsal.com Subject: Re: Hardware Question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I installed 2.2.5 on a recent E series and had to pull the AGP card and put in an Mach64 PCI to setup X... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 14:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17586 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.hq.tis.com (relay.hq.tis.com [192.94.214.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17534 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stevek@tis.com) Received: by relay.hq.tis.com; id RAA02333; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clipper.hq.tis.com(10.33.1.2) by relay.hq.tis.com via smap (4.0a) id xma002319; Tue, 19 May 98 17:16:42 -0400 Received: from mufasa.va.tis.com (mufasa.va.tis.com [192.168.10.18]) by clipper.hq.tis.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29526 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (stevek@localhost) by mufasa.va.tis.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA01610 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:18:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from stevek@mufasa.va.tis.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:18:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Kiernan To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Restoring syscall for blocked procs in mod unload Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm working on a project which uses an LKM that intercepts the syscalls for specific processes. The problem I'm trying to solve is that if there is a process which is blocked in a syscall which is intercepted by the LKM and you unload the LKM, when the syscall unblocks and the stack frame is popped, the EIP can be pointing to an invalid address and the kernel will panic. I tried setting up a function called via the sv_prepsyscall pointer in the sysent structure which saves the trapframe and restores it (in p->p_md.md_regs) on LKM unload with the EIP adjusted to act as an ERESTART return from syscall would do, but this doesn't seem to work. Am I heading in the right direction in this solution or should I be doing something else? Do I need to do some calls to reschedule the process and/or fix-up any other pointers? Anything special that needs to be done dependent on the process being the currently-running one? This is on a FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE system, FYI. Any pointers to RTFM is welcome. -- Stephen Kiernan stevek@tis.com TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 14:23:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from keaggy.canonware.com (canonware.com [206.184.206.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18015 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by keaggy.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11009; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:23:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Evans To: Chris Silva cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xdm problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to > the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill > set to 1024 mode. I've had this happen when the shell specified on the first line of my .xinitrc didn't exist. =) Probably not you problem though... Jason Jason Evans Email: [jasone@canonware.com] Web: [http://www.canonware.com/~jasone] Home phone: [(650) 856-8204] Work phone: [(408) 774-8007] Quote: ["Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - Thomas Edison] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 14:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23781 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23737 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 1144"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX8Z0UUQJ4000PHR@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:48:33 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX8Z0MA65SI3S25P@cim.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:48:22 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id HAA28684 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:48:29 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:48:29 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: StrongARM and history To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199805192148.HAA28684@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:03 -0700 (PDT), Julian Elischer wrote: >do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) I suspect you'll find a NetBSD version. (There was a talk at AUUG'97 on DEC's NC `DNARD', based on a SA-110. It ran an embedded version of NetBSD and XFree86. The board would have made a wonderful PC, but DEC decided not to make them available. The BOM price was USD400 including a ZIP drive - check out http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/iag). Maybe the `Itsy Pocket Computer' will reach the light of day. On Tue, 19 May 1998 09:31:10 +0100 (BST), Stephen Roome wrote: >[It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and >no-one ever uses them, I agree. Bad news is that Intel have bought the StrongARM from DEC. Intel have killed or emasculated chips that threatened the x86 in the past (i432, i860, i960) - hopefully it won't happen this time. On Tue, 19 May 1998 11:20:56 -0400 (EDT), Mike wrote: >I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm >blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. I have written code for both chips. The 68k family is a dream compared to the x86. When Motorola designed it, they drew ideas from the PDP-11 and looked to the future. When Intel brought out the 8086, they looked backwards and built an enhanced 8080 (which was an enhanced 8008, which was an enhanced 4004). We've been paying the price ever since. On Tue, 19 May 1998 20:08:49 +0200 (CEST), Oliver Fromme wrote: >Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history >when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. Probably not from their perspective at the time. They used the newly released 8088 so that they could have a base machine with 64k RAM using the `new' 64kx1 DRAMs (the 8086 or 68000 would have meant a 16-bit bus and twice as much external RAM/ROM/drivers). They also wanted to ensure that the PC didn't compete with their low-end minis (it had roughly the same performance as an Apple II). > If they used the 68000 Actually, IBM did release a low-end machine (intended for laboratory use) based on the 68000. I recall seeing a review in BYTE. AFAIK it went nowhere. They also released an ISA-bus `370-on-a-card' that used a re-microcoded 68000 as the processor (it ran a VM/CMS variant). Apple _did_ use the 68000, but got side-lined because they insisted on a closed architecture... (And I'm getting way off line). Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 14:54:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25164 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25017; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15940; Tue, 19 May 1998 22:43:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199805192143.WAA15940@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: brian@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp - unused UDP socket? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 18:41:04 +0300." <19980519184104.A26864@ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:43:06 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi! > > The PR/6690 contains the patch for RELENG_2_2 ppp > which corrects the problem below. [.....] Ah, it's there too ? Thanks. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 14:56:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25490 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:56:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24944; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15929; Tue, 19 May 1998 22:41:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199805192141.WAA15929@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Ruslan Ermilov cc: brian@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp - unused UDP socket? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 10:22:55 +0300." <19980519102255.A20874@ucb.crimea.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:41:35 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, That's a bug in CleanInterface.... now fixed in the MP branch. Thanks. > Hi! > > I'm running FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE (as of May 13). > > What this unbound UDP socket below for? > > Every ``ppp -direct'' uses it. > > USER PID PPID PGID SESS JOBC STAT TT TIME COMMAND > root 20706 1 20706 13d1dc0 0 Ss+ c01 0:00.45 ppp -direct > > # fstat -p 20706 > USER CMD PID FD MOUNT INUM MODE SZ|DV R/W > root ppp 20706 wd / 2 drwxr-xr-x 512 r > root ppp 20706 text /usr 345756 -r-sr-x--- 143360 r > root ppp 20706 0 / 1105 crw------- cuac01 rw > root ppp 20706 1 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > root ppp 20706 2 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > root ppp 20706 3 / 604 crw------- tun0 rw > root ppp 20706 4* internet dgram udp f137b880 > root ppp 20706 5* local dgram f0c90a94 <-> f0bc5114 > root ppp 20706 6 / 1001 -rw------- 475 r > > # netstat -Aan -finet | grep f137b880 > f137b880 udp 0 0 *.* *.* > -- > Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator > ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank > +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea > 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 15:00:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26899 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26793 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 1175"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX8ZES7JGW000UUV@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:59:47 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IX8ZEJBRXSI3S2KZ@cim.alcatel.com.au> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:59:35 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id HAA28919 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:59:40 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:59:40 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: CTM and 2.2.6 CDs To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199805192159.HAA28919@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:33 -0600 (CST), Richard Wackerbarth posted a script CVS_STARTUP.sh which described how to initialise CTM from a 2.2.5R CD-ROM. Has something similar been done for 2.2.6R? The critical piece of information that I can't find anywhere is the cvs-cur delta number corresponding to the CVS repository on the CD-ROM. (It would also be useful to know if there are any files that shouldn't be there - as mentioned in CVS_STARTUP.sh). Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 15:02:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27089 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:02:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27026; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28542; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd028537; Tue May 19 21:59:03 1998 Message-ID: <356200A2.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:58:58 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions CC: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, Sergey Vnotchneko , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Long login names in FreeBSD-2.2.6 or 2.2-STABLE References: <011701bd833a$e6a114a0$570011ac@gleam.imedia.ru> <19980519084505.39067@mooseriver.com> <3561DC07.FBC6ABDA@dal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Studded wrote: > > > > Look at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ192.html > > Unfortunately that response indicates that it's not possible to do on > -Stable, which is not the case. I've been running with 16 character > usernames on -Stable for more than 6 months. > We;ve been running 32 character usernames for a year.. (to be compatible with MACs) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 18:15:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04870 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from meowy.angio.net (meowy.angio.net [206.197.119.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04734 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from angio@meowy.angio.net) Received: (from angio@localhost) by meowy.angio.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA14072; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:14:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199805200114.TAA14072@meowy.angio.net> Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "May 18, 98 01:15:03 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Cc: eng@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lo and behold, Julian Elischer once said: > do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) DEC ported NetBSD to run on their old StrongARM computer, the shark. They've discontinued that one, however, and it looks like they're turning linux-ward. -Dave > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:45:04 -0700 > From: Anne Urban > To: colen@San-Jose.ate.slb.com, decker@alumni.caltech.edu, > joeld@engr.sgi.com, julian@whistle.com, ktl@hyperparallel.com, > markv@pixar.com, nitzberg@netcom.com > Subject: talk > > >From owner-colloq-local-list@lists.Stanford.EDU Fri May 15 20:35 PDT 1998 > Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:43:53 -0700 (PDT) > From: Andreas Paepcke > To: colloq@cs.stanford.edu > Subject: Talk: Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing > > > On Wednesday, May 20, 1998, we will host a talk by Dr. Deborah Wallach of > DEC WRL. It will take place in the Stanford Gates Building, Rm B03 in the > basement. Time: 3:15. For those interested, there will be a demo in Room > 104 at 4:15, after the talk. > > Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing > Deborah A. Wallach, DEC WRL > > The "Itsy Pocket Computer" is a small handheld computer based on the > low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our > current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and > sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio > codec, and up to 64MB of memory. > > Itsy is designed to be an open platform for research projects ranging > from OS power management to novel gesture and speech-based user > interfaces. The base Itsy hardware provides a flexible interface for > adding a custom daughtercard, enabling a wide range of hardware > projects such as wireless networking and GPS. Itsy also supports the > Linux OS and standard GNU tools, facilitating the development of both > kernel and application software, as well as ports of existing packages > such as Apache. > > Deborah A. Wallach received her S.B., S.M., and Ph.D. degrees in Computer > Science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where she worked in > a variety of areas including massively parallel computer architecture, > distributed systems, operating systems, and networks. Dr. Wallach has been > a member of the research staff in the Western Research Laboratory since > March 1997. Currently she is interested in several aspects of mobile > computing, especially applications, operating systems, and user interfaces > for portable hand-held devices. > > > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | This message was sent via the Stanford Computer Science Department | > | colloquium mailing list. To be added to this list send an arbitrary | > | message to colloq-subscribe@cs.stanford.edu. To be removed from this list,| > | send a message to colloq-unsubscribe@cs.stanford.edu. For more information,| > | send an arbitrary message to colloq-request@cs.stanford.edu. For directions| > | to Stanford, check out http://www-forum.stanford.edu | > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------xcl+ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 19:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23770 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23761 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA25867; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:10:21 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199805200240.MAA25867@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Chris Silva" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xdm problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 May 1998 12:14:30 EST." <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:10:21 +0930 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to > the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill > set to 1024 mode. Your .xsession file is probably broken. xdm runs your .xsession file, and when it exists it kills the X server.. So generally the last thing you put there is your window manager, and when you quit that the X server exits. If you changed it and can't get back in, enter your user name and password, but instead of hitting enter after your password, press F1. This will run an 'emergency xterm' where you can edit your .xsession (I learnt this at uni, where we only have xterminals :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 20:36:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00333 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00290 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02748; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd002706; Tue May 19 20:35:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA27910; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:35:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805200335.UAA27910@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Restoring syscall for blocked procs in mod unload To: stevek@tis.com (Steve Kiernan) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:35:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Steve Kiernan" at May 19, 98 05:18:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm working on a project which uses an LKM that intercepts the syscalls > for specific processes. The problem I'm trying to solve is that if there > is a process which is blocked in a syscall which is intercepted by the LKM > and you unload the LKM, when the syscall unblocks and the stack frame is > popped, the EIP can be pointing to an invalid address and the kernel will > panic. A module can veto the unload if it is in use; you must reference count. Increment a volatile variable on the way in, and decrement on the way out. If the volatile variable is non-zero at unload request time, deny the unload. I initially had some code that would schedule a wakeup at intervals, and do the unload on your behalf (the unload was sheculed to happen rather than invoked at call time). This code was removed on release, and kernel timer architecture has changed so drastically away from the ability to even implement the services I relied upon for this (a reschedulable timer oneshot outcall) that it would be hard to do it without a kernel process that runs (say every 15 or 30 seconds). In that architecture, you would have to make the process code static, since you couldn't ever unload it, so you would have to implement it as a service (which is what the timer outcall did, only it didn't have the cruddy 7.5-15 second average latency a "sync" type kernel process would have). Once you have that, you veto with a "pending" status code, and return to the caller after enqueueing the unload. You should set another volatile variable to indicate that subsequent entries should be refused with ENOSYS; effectively, this variable is just a flag that indicates that you have restored the syscall entry vector. Pretty trivial, if you steal your examples from the updated/syncd, etc. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 21:20:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:20:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc4.wcc.net (wcc4.wcc.net [208.6.232.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07099 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (92.camalott.com [208.203.140.92]) by wcc4.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23976; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:15:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17456; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:19:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:19:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805200419.XAA17456@detlev.UUCP> To: ras@interaccess.com CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> (ras@interaccess.com) Subject: Re: xdm problem From: Joel Ray Holveck References: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I evoke xdm -nodaemon & to test this (I've checked my tty's and vt3 > is disabled, actually it don't say off, it says -nodaemon) > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to > the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill > set to 1024 mode. Did you check ~/.xsession-errors? Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 21:55:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA11124 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA30685 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 20 May 1998 06:55:39 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA04150; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:57:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> from Oliver Fromme at "May 19, 98 08:08:49 pm" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:57:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Oliver Fromme wrote... > In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: > > [...] > > I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm > > blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for > > Be and he's always ranting about it. :) > > He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of > them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and > 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain > restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX > register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. > > On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose > registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). > There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th > address regsiter is the default stack pointer. > > I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to > say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the > higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. > > Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history > when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. > (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell > the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the > 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would > have less problems today, I guess. An attractive (to me ;-) explanation is that IBM did not want to use the 68K because it was a threat (performance wise) to their high profit machine range. Urban legend or not, it sure sounds OK ;-) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 21:56:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11249 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA11148 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA30677 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 20 May 1998 06:55:37 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA04202; Wed, 20 May 1998 00:00:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199805192200.AAA04202@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: nfs exported FreeBSD cvs repository, mounted on client, update problems In-Reply-To: <199805182001.OAA25464@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "May 18, 98 02:01:54 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:00:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dhw@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Nate Williams wrote... > > >Terry will pipe up now and try to get us to optimize the rare > > >case, but as any good engineer nows that penalizes the standard > > >case for the rare case is always a bad idea. > > > > I'm certainly not even going to try to speak for Terry (or anyone else > > but me). > > > > That said, I'll agree that optimizing for the rare case isn't generally > > appropriate, but ensuring that all cases (even rare ones) are handled > > *correctly*, is nearly always worthwhile. > > When correctness involves human behavior, you can't optimize for it, nor > guarantee that it will always work. In other words, trying to gain 100% Right. Human stupidity ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H behaviour has been optimised for millions of years by painstakingly slow processes of evolution. We should not even consider attempts to better this ;-) ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 22:13:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13938 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13925 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 22:13:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA21170; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:43:00 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:43:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) References: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl>; from Wilko Bulte on Tue, May 19, 1998 at 11:57:14PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:57:14 +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > As Oliver Fromme wrote... >> In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: >>> [...] >>> I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm >>> blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for >>> Be and he's always ranting about it. :) >> >> He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of >> them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and >> 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain >> restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX >> register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. >> >> On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose >> registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). >> There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th >> address regsiter is the default stack pointer. >> >> I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to >> say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the >> higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. >> >> Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history >> when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. >> (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell >> the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the >> 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would >> have less problems today, I guess. > > An attractive (to me ;-) explanation is that IBM did not want to use the > 68K because it was a threat (performance wise) to their high profit machine > range. > > Urban legend or not, it sure sounds OK ;-) I just realized what this thread was about after deleting a lot of messages unread, so if I repeat something that has already gone past, please forgive me. Did it really take IBM so long to develop the PC? My recollection was that it was a sort of half-hearted effort after the devastating success of the 5100. In any case, the obvious reason for the choice of processor was the software available--CP/M 86 and 86-DOS for the 8088, nothing for the 68K. On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days were single bit). I don't think they had the slightest concern about attacking their mainframe machines, which were as fast as they needed to be (quite literally). Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 23:24:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24774 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic30.pm09.sf3d.best.com [209.24.239.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24734 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA04032; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980519232435.A3703@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:24:35 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg Lehey , Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 02:43:00PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 02:43:00PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:57:14 +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > As Oliver Fromme wrote... > >> In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: > >>> [...] > >>> I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm > >>> blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for > >>> Be and he's always ranting about it. :) > >> > >> He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of > >> them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and > >> 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain > >> restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX > >> register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. > >> > >> On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose > >> registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). > >> There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th > >> address regsiter is the default stack pointer. > >> > >> I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to > >> say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the > >> higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. > >> > >> Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history > >> when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. > >> (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell > >> the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the > >> 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would > >> have less problems today, I guess. > > > > An attractive (to me ;-) explanation is that IBM did not want to use the > > 68K because it was a threat (performance wise) to their high profit machine > > range. > > > > Urban legend or not, it sure sounds OK ;-) > > I just realized what this thread was about after deleting a lot of > messages unread, so if I repeat something that has already gone past, > please forgive me. > > Did it really take IBM so long to develop the PC? My recollection was > that it was a sort of half-hearted effort after the devastating > success of the 5100. In any case, the obvious reason for the choice > of processor was the software available--CP/M 86 and 86-DOS for the > 8088, nothing for the 68K. On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper > because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days > were single bit). I don't think they had the slightest concern about > attacking their mainframe machines, which were as fast as they needed > to be (quite literally). > If memory servers me right, the original IBM-PC was a semi rouge operation based in Boca Raton, Fl. I remember reading in Byte at the time, back in the days when Byte was worth reading before it became just another media toady for Microshit and this is covered in "Revenge of the Nerds" or "Accidental Empires", the suits at IBM were very nervous about missing the boat with the PC. This is 1979-1980. The Apple II was selling like cold beer at a double header in the middle of august all thanks to VisCala and Steve Jobs. The comment was "If we do this like a normal (IBM) product it'll take 4 years to ship." I think CP/M 86 and 86-DOS was after the introduction of the IBM-PC. I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said they would but by that time they had missed their window. Of course this was 20 years ago and I could just be hallucinating again ;-) Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 23:30:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:30:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25505 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:30:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from localhost (crb@localhost) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01936; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:30:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) X-Authentication-Warning: quark.ChrisBowman.com: crb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 02:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" To: Greg Lehey cc: Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:57:14 +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: >> As Oliver Fromme wrote... >>> In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm >>>> blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for >>>> Be and he's always ranting about it. :) >>> >>> He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of >>> them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and >>> 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain >>> restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX >>> register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. >>> >>> On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose >>> registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). >>> There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th >>> address regsiter is the default stack pointer. >>> >>> I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to >>> say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the >>> higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. >>> >>> Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history >>> when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. >>> (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell >>> the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the >>> 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would >>> have less problems today, I guess. >> >> An attractive (to me ;-) explanation is that IBM did not want to use the >> 68K because it was a threat (performance wise) to their high profit machine >> range. >> >> Urban legend or not, it sure sounds OK ;-) > >I just realized what this thread was about after deleting a lot of >messages unread, so if I repeat something that has already gone past, >please forgive me. > >Did it really take IBM so long to develop the PC? My recollection was >that it was a sort of half-hearted effort after the devastating >success of the 5100. In any case, the obvious reason for the choice >of processor was the software available--CP/M 86 and 86-DOS for the >8088, nothing for the 68K. On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper >because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days >were single bit). I don't think they had the slightest concern about >attacking their mainframe machines, which were as fast as they needed >to be (quite literally). Vague recollections that Intel let them liscense the processor, or become a second source whereas Motorola wouldn't. --------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com My home page To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 23:35:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26320 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26277 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:34:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA21749; Wed, 20 May 1998 16:04:42 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980520160442.U20476@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:04:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) References: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com> <19980519232435.A3703@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980519232435.A3703@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Tue, May 19, 1998 at 11:24:35PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:24:35 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 02:43:00PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:57:14 +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: >>> As Oliver Fromme wrote... >>>> In list.freebsd-hackers Mike wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm >>>>> blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for >>>>> Be and he's always ranting about it. :) >>>> >>>> He's right. The x86 has 4 general-purpose registers, each of >>>> them 16 bits (they were extended to 32 bits in the 80386) and >>>> 4 address registers of the same size. And there are certain >>>> restrictions on their usage, e.g. you can only use the CX >>>> register as counter in the "loop" instruction etc. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, the Motorola 68k has 8 general-purpose >>>> registers of 32 bits and 8 address registers (also 32 bits). >>>> There is no restriction on their use, except that the 8th >>>> address regsiter is the default stack pointer. >>>> >>>> I programmed on both architectures in assembler, and I have to >>>> say that the 68k is definitely easier to program, and the >>>> higher number of registers allows for efficient programming. >>>> >>>> Maybe it was the biggest mistake ever made in computer history >>>> when IBM selected the 8088 for their first PC back in 1979. >>>> (Or was it 1978? Don't know, I probably couldn't even spell >>>> the word "Computer" correctly back then.) If they used the >>>> 68000 -- which was already available at that time -- we would >>>> have less problems today, I guess. >>> >>> An attractive (to me ;-) explanation is that IBM did not want to use the >>> 68K because it was a threat (performance wise) to their high profit machine >>> range. >>> >>> Urban legend or not, it sure sounds OK ;-) >> >> I just realized what this thread was about after deleting a lot of >> messages unread, so if I repeat something that has already gone past, >> please forgive me. >> >> Did it really take IBM so long to develop the PC? My recollection was >> that it was a sort of half-hearted effort after the devastating >> success of the 5100. In any case, the obvious reason for the choice >> of processor was the software available--CP/M 86 and 86-DOS for the >> 8088, nothing for the 68K. On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper >> because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days >> were single bit). I don't think they had the slightest concern about >> attacking their mainframe machines, which were as fast as they needed >> to be (quite literally). >> > > If memory servers me right, the original IBM-PC was a semi rouge operation > based in Boca Raton, Fl. I remember reading in Byte at the time, back in > the days when Byte was worth reading before it became just another media > toady for Microshit and this is covered in "Revenge of the Nerds" or > "Accidental Empires", the suits at IBM were very nervous about missing the > boat with the PC. This is 1979-1980. The Apple II was selling like cold > beer at a double header in the middle of august all thanks to VisCala and > Steve Jobs. The comment was "If we do this like a normal (IBM) product > it'll take 4 years to ship." > > I think CP/M 86 and 86-DOS was after the introduction of the > IBM-PC. No, that's not the case. 86-DOS was in fact the name under which Seattle Computer Products marketed their QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System). I bought a copy in about November 1980, along with a couple of S-100 boards. Does Thunderboard sound right? IIRC it was an 8 MHz 8086 and a combined 256 kB memory board [in my case, populated with only 64 kB] and UART, and it supported *up to 1 MB of RAM*. By comparison, the PC looked a little feeble when it was announced the following year. > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said > they would but by that time they had missed their window. No, I don't believe that. The 8086 had been out for years, and I'm sure I saw 68Ks in 1980. Quite honestly, I think that IBM made the correct choice of hardware for that machine. Hardly anybody realised what a lasting influence it would have on the market, and getting the thing out the door was more important. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 19 23:54:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00352 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:54:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic30.pm09.sf3d.best.com [209.24.239.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00326 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA04332; Tue, 19 May 1998 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980519235429.A4203@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:54:29 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg Lehey , jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199805191808.UAA17299@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <199805192157.XAA04150@yedi.iaf.nl> <19980520144300.M20476@freebie.lemis.com> <19980519232435.A3703@mooseriver.com> <19980520160442.U20476@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980520160442.U20476@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 04:04:42PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 04:04:42PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tue, 19 May 1998 at 23:24:35 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: [ DELETED ] > > If memory servers me right, the original IBM-PC was a semi rouge operation > > based in Boca Raton, Fl. I remember reading in Byte at the time, back in > > the days when Byte was worth reading before it became just another media > > toady for Microshit and this is covered in "Revenge of the Nerds" or > > "Accidental Empires", the suits at IBM were very nervous about missing the > > boat with the PC. This is 1979-1980. The Apple II was selling like cold > > beer at a double header in the middle of august all thanks to VisCala and > > Steve Jobs. The comment was "If we do this like a normal (IBM) product > > it'll take 4 years to ship." > > > > I think CP/M 86 and 86-DOS was after the introduction of the > > IBM-PC. > > No, that's not the case. 86-DOS was in fact the name under which > Seattle Computer Products marketed their QDOS (Quick and Dirty > Operating System). I bought a copy in about November 1980, along with > a couple of S-100 boards. Does Thunderboard sound right? IIRC it was > an 8 MHz 8086 and a combined 256 kB memory board [in my case, > populated with only 64 kB] and UART, and it supported *up to 1 MB of > RAM*. By comparison, the PC looked a little feeble when it was > announced the following year. > OK, I am very fuzzy about CP/M 86 and 86-DOS. My only experience with CP/M was my old Kapro machine which I am sure is doing great service at the bottom of Lake Minnetonka. > > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was > > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 > > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said > > they would but by that time they had missed their window. > > No, I don't believe that. The 8086 had been out for years, and I'm > sure I saw 68Ks in 1980. > Well, I picked up this bit of urban legend when I worked at Motorola. Sour grapes I guess. > Quite honestly, I think that IBM made the correct choice of hardware > for that machine. Hardly anybody realised what a lasting influence it > would have on the market, and getting the thing out the door was more > important. > -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 01:08:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA13806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA13717 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@news.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 18735 on Wed, 20 May 1998 08:07:32 GMT; id IAA18735 efrom: hans; eto: UNKNOWN Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.8.7/BI96070101) for id JAA07297; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199805200746.JAA07297@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <19980520160442.U20476@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 20, 98 04:04:42 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Greg Lehey wrote: > > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was > > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 > > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said > > they would but by that time they had missed their window. Another reason was probably that Intel (?) had a 8080/Z80 to 8088 translator making it much easier to get a lot of CP/M applications converted to the new machine quickly. Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 01:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nt5.spline.net (nt5.ipi.kiev.ua [194.44.182.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15893 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tat@nt5.spline.net) Received: from localhost (tat@localhost) by nt5.spline.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA27790; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:20:51 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from tat@nt5.spline.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:20:51 +0300 (EEST) From: Alexander Tatmaniants To: Chris Silva cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xdm problem In-Reply-To: <003401bd8349$958478a0$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Chris Silva wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hi everyone, > I evoke xdm -nodaemon & to test this (I've checked my tty's and vt3 > is disabled, actually it don't say off, it says -nodaemon) > > Anywise, If I try to login via xdm, It tries to, then flips back to > the login screen. Has anyone had this happen? I use a Matrox Mill > set to 1024 mode. Yes, take a look at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-errors file. > > TIA > Chris > _____________________________________________________________________ > > RSA Key Fingerprint = 6D0B 5536 7825 3D09 9093 384A 9694 FDB6 > RSA Key Fingerprint = 4390 44E5 E316 F2AA A11E 5755 F3F9 D69B > DH/DSS Fingerprint = 089B 0B5C 75C7 A7B4 B050 DD14 2D65 5DD6 E87D 239A > > PGP Mail encouraged / preferred - keys available on common keyservers > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGP 5.5.5 > Comment: Out of NT, over the ISDN link, via my ISP - Nuthin' but net! > > iQEVAwUBNWG98P9tKFG94DNTAQE1Lwf/UC5uGRNZG8ZRUahlzv7Kr+Iy79kPaflw > zql/2LKX51WGguFPp/4B2YtC/+wslLC52gQqbT0/k0d1XsezdEgiwQR2I8aqOSUa > v47EeP7Gt1+w1YGgjlGQv6ZlWFlFvQHo7MmIlQKdOTV3PjjLE+GDH+43BwHc2YAe > tq8RCbYzQNRhNzLtEByQ7hTzGVNUGZmh1IL97/bL5LJ5I7uMgB5vAxWaIlF2jcX+ > DAT2rqhnIbnHiiaAnDpfvy1RO3+jzR7KWKKB6yMOs7KGRetjQkfKnHBBTfR2WOvr > +zlAC3JksithvbZXGynWTuWRSlq/1kp2XghY2P7aFmyCYypSWxU8jg== > =vnWb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 01:45:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA20105 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19892 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20151 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:43:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:43:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <199805200843.KAA20151@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) Newsgroups: list.freebsd-hackers Organization: Administration Heim 3 Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 RZTUC(3) PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In list.freebsd-hackers Greg Lehey wrote: > Did it really take IBM so long to develop the PC? My recollection was > that it was a sort of half-hearted effort after the devastating > success of the 5100. In any case, the obvious reason for the choice > of processor was the software available--CP/M 86 and 86-DOS for the > 8088, nothing for the 68K. Ok, that sounds reasonable. On the other hand, I guess that a team of programmers would have been able to port the old 86-DOS to 68k in a few weeks. > On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper > because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days > were single bit). There was also an 68000-8 with external 8 bit bus. > I don't think they had the slightest concern about > attacking their mainframe machines, which were as fast as they needed > to be (quite literally). Agreed. :-) Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 02:14:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24406 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24395 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by mail.visint.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA20922; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:14:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:13:23 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: Mike cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Mike wrote: > *laff* The StrongARM is a 'souped up' RISC processor, right? Didn't they > basically take a RISC chip, strip out a few select instructions (modified > to run at super-low power) and add lots of cache? The now discontinued > Apple Message Pad 2100 used the ARM at ~200MHz, I believe. Impressive. > > I've always heard (I have no motorola experience, yet) that motorola asm > blows x86 away when it comes to efficiency. A friend I have develops for > Be and he's always ranting about it. :) I think that the StrongARM has 14 general pupose 32 bit registers, unless they removed a few of them since I was programming with the much older ARM 2. (Maybe the ARM3 as well, but I was never really bothered with numbers on chips then.) The StrongARM is supposedly compatible with older ARM code so I guess that it probably has either 14 or more registers. Have a look at www.arm.com, there's some more information there I beleive. Personally, my experience with ARM code (some years ago now) would have me buying ARM based machines and porting stuff to them. However they discontinued the Archimedes range (although it was years ahead of the PC in performance ?!) and there's not been anything else for a while. Apart from the RiscPC, which was a tad expensive at the time. > > [It still amazes me that there are so many better options than Intel and > > no-one ever uses them, writing ARM is a damn sight easier than 80x86 > > Likewise, it always amazes me that there are so many better options than > M$ and very few utilize them. Personally, I'm always interested in new > ideas/ports/processes. Anything to work toward a 'bigger/badder/better' > future. ;) Yes, but at least OS/2 was given a chance, it got reviews, it even got some good reviews, some people use x86 Solaris in the business world, there's at least a Linux column or a bit of Linux speak in almost every PC magazine every month. SCO for the x86 probably gets used a bit. People use Mac's and the same applies for them. There's probably some CAD people who buy Sun, and some Video folks who wouldn't want anything but an SGI. However I've not really heard anything about the ARM range for years apart from it's use in embedded systems. Surprisingly though it's got incredibly simple asm, it's high performance and it's cheap. Maybe also it was originally British, which doesn't get you anywhere in the computer business now does it? =( Steve Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 02:42:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29344 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29336 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13947 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:42:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Message-ID: <3562A574.CE34E6EA@tdx.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:42:12 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it me or is basically everyone here either a) Not a big fan of Intel (strange considering what FreeBSD runs on ;-) b) Prefers the Motorola? (I certainly do!), and / or c) Largely used to own, program, hack on Amiga's? - or at least want FreeBSD to work as well as the Amiga did All way off topic but interesting following - maybe we should start 'nostalgia-freebsd' mailing list? Regards, Karl Pielorz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 02:53:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01508 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hcshh.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.123.40.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01502 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:53:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hm@hcs.de) Received: from hcswork.hcs.de([192.76.124.5]) (1172 bytes) by hcshh.hcs.de via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:52:56 +0200 (METDST) (Smail-3.2.0.97 1997-Aug-19 #16 built 1997-Oct-22) Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.29.0 #12) id m0yc4cb-00005jC; Wed, 20 May 98 10:53 METDST Message-Id: From: hm@hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: (Free-)BSD social event June 1998 update To: de-bsd-chat@de.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:53:12 +0200 (METDST) Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To answer all those FAQ's i've set up a web page which will be constantly updated: http://www.hcs.de/users/hm/june98.html. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis Tel +49 40 559747-70 HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH Fax +49 40 559747-77 Oldesloer Strasse 97-99 Mail hm@hcs.de 22457 Hamburg WWW http://www.hcs.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 03:06:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 03:06:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03757 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 03:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27465; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:06:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Message-ID: <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:06:00 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Studded , "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft References: <199805150838.SAA24038@cain.gsoft.com.au> <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net>; from Studded on Fri, May 15, 1998 at 10:28:35AM -0700 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I would be happy to help test patches in -Stable. I am very interested > in a working windows emulator but I'm starting to lose hope. :-/ Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager FreeBSD: The power to serve (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 03:28:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 03:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06885 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 03:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA22671; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:58:48 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980520195848.I22221@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:58:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Karl Pielorz , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Processor preferences (was: talk (fwd)) References: <3562A574.CE34E6EA@tdx.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3562A574.CE34E6EA@tdx.co.uk>; from Karl Pielorz on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 10:42:12AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998 at 10:42:12 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: > Is it me or is basically everyone here either a) Not a big fan of Intel > (strange considering what FreeBSD runs on ;-) > > b) Prefers the Motorola? (I certainly do!), and / or c) Largely used to own, > program, hack on Amiga's? - or at least want FreeBSD to work as well as the > Amiga did > > All way off topic but interesting following - maybe we should start > 'nostalgia-freebsd' mailing list? I'm not really pro this or contra that. The M68K series was a very good design when it came out, and the 8086 was pretty rough by comparison, but nowadays the register model isn't very important to anybody except compiler writers. For whatever reasons, Intel has made the grade, whereas Motorola hasn't. I have more interesting things to worry about. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 04:23:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA16346 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:23:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16315 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by mail.visint.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21940; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:23:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:22:50 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: Josef Karthauser cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft In-Reply-To: <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > I would be happy to help test patches in -Stable. I am very interested > > in a working windows emulator but I'm starting to lose hope. :-/ > > Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. > (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) Oh, so you've got a Pentium 2 running at 5GHz then ?! I'd give up on Bochs for anything more than amusement, 2 months ago it ran slower than an an IBM AT, on a Pentium 188MMX. (well a 166). Steve. Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 04:40:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19967 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19940 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id HAA18687; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:40:14 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Josef Karthauser cc: Studded , "Daniel O'Connor" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft In-Reply-To: <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > I would be happy to help test patches in -Stable. I am very interested > > in a working windows emulator but I'm starting to lose hope. :-/ > > Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. > (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) bochs works okay, except that the last time I tried to use it, mouse support doesn't. I've never succeeded in getting Wine to run anything that I wanted, so don't know how they compare, but Bochs was dog slow too...something like 12hrs to install Win95 on a P166, or something ridiculous like that :( I haven't tried it in months though, so it may have progressed since then... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 04:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19972 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mestery@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10482; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:40:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010079; Wed, 20 May 98 06:39:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA17296; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:39:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:39:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mestery To: Dave Andersen cc: Julian Elischer , eng@whistle.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199805200114.TAA14072@meowy.angio.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Check out the following link: http://www.causality.com/ These guys are based in England and write the NetBSD ARM port. The StrongARM is an awesome chip. We are using it in a product where I work, and I must say it is nice. We are currently running VxWorks on it, but I plan to grab the NetBSD sources and port NetBSD to it sometime in the coming months. Very nice. -- Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group "I'll take what you're willing to give, and I'll teach myself to live, with a walk-on part of a background shot from a movie I'm not in." - Blink 182, "Apple Shampoo" On Tue, 19 May 1998, Dave Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, Julian Elischer once said: > > do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) > > DEC ported NetBSD to run on their old StrongARM computer, the shark. > They've discontinued that one, however, and it looks like they're turning > linux-ward. > > -Dave > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:45:04 -0700 > > From: Anne Urban > > To: colen@San-Jose.ate.slb.com, decker@alumni.caltech.edu, > > joeld@engr.sgi.com, julian@whistle.com, ktl@hyperparallel.com, > > markv@pixar.com, nitzberg@netcom.com > > Subject: talk > > > > >From owner-colloq-local-list@lists.Stanford.EDU Fri May 15 20:35 PDT 1998 > > Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:43:53 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Andreas Paepcke > > To: colloq@cs.stanford.edu > > Subject: Talk: Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 20, 1998, we will host a talk by Dr. Deborah Wallach of > > DEC WRL. It will take place in the Stanford Gates Building, Rm B03 in the > > basement. Time: 3:15. For those interested, there will be a demo in Room > > 104 at 4:15, after the talk. > > > > Itsy: An Open Platform for Pocket Computing > > Deborah A. Wallach, DEC WRL > > > > The "Itsy Pocket Computer" is a small handheld computer based on the > > low-power, high-performance StrongARM SA-1100 microprocessor. Our > > current prototype runs at 200MHz on a pair of AAA batteries, and > > sports a tiny, high-resolution LCD touchscreen, a high-quality audio > > codec, and up to 64MB of memory. > > > > Itsy is designed to be an open platform for research projects ranging > > from OS power management to novel gesture and speech-based user > > interfaces. The base Itsy hardware provides a flexible interface for > > adding a custom daughtercard, enabling a wide range of hardware > > projects such as wireless networking and GPS. Itsy also supports the > > Linux OS and standard GNU tools, facilitating the development of both > > kernel and application software, as well as ports of existing packages > > such as Apache. > > > > Deborah A. Wallach received her S.B., S.M., and Ph.D. degrees in Computer > > Science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where she worked in > > a variety of areas including massively parallel computer architecture, > > distributed systems, operating systems, and networks. Dr. Wallach has been > > a member of the research staff in the Western Research Laboratory since > > March 1997. Currently she is interested in several aspects of mobile > > computing, especially applications, operating systems, and user interfaces > > for portable hand-held devices. > > > > > > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | This message was sent via the Stanford Computer Science Department | > > | colloquium mailing list. To be added to this list send an arbitrary | > > | message to colloq-subscribe@cs.stanford.edu. To be removed from this list,| > > | send a message to colloq-unsubscribe@cs.stanford.edu. For more information,| > > | send an arbitrary message to colloq-request@cs.stanford.edu. For directions| > > | to Stanford, check out http://www-forum.stanford.edu | > > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------xcl+ > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 04:54:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22722 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:54:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22713 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12132; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Message-ID: <19980520125435.C7619@pavilion.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:35 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Stephen Roome Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft References: <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Stephen Roome on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 12:22:50PM +0100 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 12:22:50PM +0100, Stephen Roome wrote: > On Wed, 20 May 1998, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > I would be happy to help test patches in -Stable. I am very interested > > > in a working windows emulator but I'm starting to lose hope. :-/ > > > > Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. > > (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) > > Oh, so you've got a Pentium 2 running at 5GHz then ?! I'd give up on Bochs > for anything more than amusement, 2 months ago it ran slower than an an > IBM AT, on a Pentium 188MMX. (well a 166). Still installing.... now at 32% :) The things I go through to view word documents. . Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager FreeBSD: The power to serve (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 05:18:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27063 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 05:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27029 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 05:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199805201218.FAA27029@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA086986594; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:16:34 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: StrongARM and history To: peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:16:34 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805192148.HAA28684@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> from "Peter Jeremy" at May 20, 98 07:48:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Peter Jeremy, sie said: > > On Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:03 -0700 (PDT), Julian Elischer wrote: > >do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) > I suspect you'll find a NetBSD version. (There was a talk at AUUG'97 > on DEC's NC `DNARD', based on a SA-110. Sigh. Word has it that DEC sold out to Microsoft and scrapped the project. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:05:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:05:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01679 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw1.att.com; Wed May 20 08:05 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id IAA18562 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:05:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:04:54 -0400 Message-ID: To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com Subject: RE: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:04:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 8088, nothing for the 68K. On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper > because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days > were single bit). I don't think they had the slightest concern about > Was 68008 available in these days ? It has 8-bit physical memory bus. -Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03017 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03012 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id JAA17687; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: Josef Grosch cc: Greg Lehey , Wilko Bulte , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <19980519235429.A4203@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: [snip] > > > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was > > > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 > > > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said > > > they would but by that time they had missed their window. > > > > No, I don't believe that. The 8086 had been out for years, and I'm > > sure I saw 68Ks in 1980. > > > > Well, I picked up this bit of urban legend when I worked at Motorola. Sour > grapes I guess. As I heard it, Motorola wouldn't allow second sourcing of its chip. Intel was hungry enough, at that time, to go for the idea. Can you say AMD? :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null Mail from netcom.com blocked until they stop relaying SPAM -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:21:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03532 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyber2.servtech.com (root@cyber2.servtech.com [199.1.22.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03522 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Received: from pr-comm.com (prcomm.roc.servtech.com [204.181.3.14]) by cyber2.servtech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04539 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:21:36 GMT Received: from pr-comm.com (housley@hatchling.int.pr-comm.com [192.168.70.48]) by pr-comm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10857 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:19:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@pr-comm.com) Message-ID: <3562D848.6DE5F5C2@pr-comm.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:19:04 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" Organization: PR Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Make World problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry. That is src-2.2 724 version. -- James E. Housley PGP: 1024/03983B4D PR Communications, Inc. 2C 3F 3A 0D A8 D8 C3 13 www.servtech.com/public/pr-comm 7C F0 B5 BF 27 8B 92 FE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:21:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.admis.com (mail.admis.com [208.192.111.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03523 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ras@interaccess.com) Received: from aps.admis-ods.com (aps.admis-ods.com [208.192.111.12]) by mail.admis.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.aa3w) with ESMTP id ya001064 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:21:47 -0500 From: "Chris Silva" To: "FreeBSD - Hackers" Subject: Enlightenment & other themes Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:24:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01bd83f2$96d88b20$ddb5a8b6@mis2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Info: ADM Investor Services, Inc. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi again, Ok, so far I've corrected my launching of Enlightenment, and the XDM problem I had. Can someone tell me of how to use any other theme other than DEFAULT (for now, I've renamed one to DEFAULT) OR, point me to a FAQ on how to launch other themes. I've visited www.rasterman.com - but there is not much there as far as help goes. One last thing - I am very open to ideas on how to setup PPP for a Bitsurefer Pro EZ. Again, thanks a bunch guys, you have been a great help. Chris _____________________________________________________________________ RSA Key Fingerprint = 6D0B 5536 7825 3D09 9093 384A 9694 FDB6 RSA Key Fingerprint = 4390 44E5 E316 F2AA A11E 5755 F3F9 D69B DH/DSS Fingerprint = 089B 0B5C 75C7 A7B4 B050 DD14 2D65 5DD6 E87D 239A PGP Mail encouraged / preferred - keys available on common keyservers _____________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.5.5 Comment: Out of NT, over the ISDN link, via my ISP - Nuthin' but net! iQEVAwUBNWLZgP9tKFG94DNTAQEsXgf9FJ0qmIb3P3JbhKyp3Imsw597Xbh3s1PX yRRzkvNRmsc6t2oK+dBdvijpmYKzglTELdb9thq/cNgJlXY56OxNlJHOOZrPJ7WU biD67vBQ/g0zm482+9r2pV+Kwh9XoN6/XTTQ7DaAVIyEbpj0/MPT2buvUiPoh9ZR GCRNa537RBOVq3OIhNMUJWkbfqQ/JfUhTtegXIBtY4tZUivUxrieGGigVDlxFP2O +RSXb+bI3ciRKRP1Ko841QzoxXd0r+OqaFv+gbFXWCXzkI8neMWrSPlKRua0W63x ng0UG9q1q0YilmKl3NjR/CkYNfet/5qNZHEtmT7UJME2Rz0lqYdFOA== =ysjR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:53:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA06757 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:52:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA29669; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:52:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:52:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Scanning in video Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well, i'm supposed to know how to do this, but I don't. I need a way to grab video frames from either D1 or similar format under remote control. I need to be able to control it a frame at a time. Any hints on cards that do this, and freebsd drivers to control them? many thanks ron Ron Minnich |Java: an operating-system-independent, rminnich@sarnoff.com |architecture-independent programming language (609)-734-3120 |for Windows/95 and Windows/NT on the Pentium ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 06:56:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07277 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles309.castles.com [208.214.167.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07167 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00472 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 05:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805201251.FAA00472@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 10:43:54 +0200." <199805200843.KAA20151@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 05:51:17 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On top of that, the 8088 was cheaper > > because it had 8 bit memory (remember that most chips in those days > > were single bit). > > There was also an 68000-8 with external 8 bit bus. Actually, the "68000-8" is an 8MHz 68000 in common nomenclature. You may mean the 68008 (which came later) or the 68070 (which is a Philips part). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 09:45:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28186 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:45:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28166 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:44:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14691; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35630876.7C09196C@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:44:38 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser CC: Studded , "Daniel O'Connor" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft References: <199805150838.SAA24038@cain.gsoft.com.au> <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net> <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > I would be happy to help test patches in -Stable. I am very interested > > in a working windows emulator but I'm starting to lose hope. :-/ > > Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. > (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) I've heard good things about it, but unfortunately the main app that I want to run is an IRC client and the docs I read for bochs say that it doesn't do network'ed apps. I would be happy to be proven wrong though. :) Thanks for the responses, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 09:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00929 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from crdems.ge.com (root@crdems.GE.COM [192.35.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA00888 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@kerberos.crd.ge.com) Received: from kerberos.crd.ge.com by crdems.ge.com (5.65/GE 1.77) id AA04457; Wed, 20 May 98 12:54:25 -0400 Received: by kerberos.crd.ge.com (SMI-8.6/GE-CRD Standard Sendmail Version S1.5)id MAA00962; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199805201654.MAA00962@kerberos.crd.ge.com> From: "David E Cross (Grindle)" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: CDROM and -stable kernel problems. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (I am normally on this mailing list, but the machine that used to receive my email is currently off-line so please CC me on any replies to 'crossd@crd.ge.com') This is actually 2 disperate problems, contrary to what the subject line implies... The first problem regards trying to compile a -stable kernel (cvsup-ed earlier today), and get errors that it cannot resolve 'isa_devtab_cam' when loading the kernel (last step), I fixed this error temporarily by adding 'struct isa_device isa_devtab_cam[] = {0};' to the ioconf.c file and the kernel compiles and runs OK.. Just to make sure that nothing 'required' changed I tried compiling the GENERIC kernel and received the same error message. The second (and disperate) problem is that I have 2 ide cdrom drives on the same IDE chain (notrhing else is on the chain, just the drives, one is master, the other is slave), the BIOS autoscan recognizes both, but FreeBSD only recognizes one (the master). Also, when attempting to mount the cdrom I get the following errors (it does finally mount): May 18 22:53:27 phoenix /kernel: wcd0: i/o error, status=51, and here is the probe line from dmesg: May 20 08:11:12 phoenix /kernel: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa May 20 08:11:12 phoenix /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, dma, iordy May 20 08:11:12 phoenix /kernel: wcd0: 0Kb/sec, caddy May 20 08:11:12 phoenix /kernel: wcd0: medium type unknown (also this is *not* a caddy cdrom) there is never any probe line from wcd1. As an additional data-point, here is my kernel config file: machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident PHOENIX maxusers 25 options FAILSAFE options INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE # Include this file in kernel config kernel root on wd0 options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "MD5" options UCONSOLE options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor pseudo-device ether #Generic Ethernet pseudo-device loop #Network loopback device pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device ppp 1 options INET #Internet communications protocols options NETATALK #Appletalk communications protocols options FFS #Fast filesystem options NFS #Network File System options MSDOSFS #MS DOS File System options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" options BOUNCE_BUFFERS options "AUTO_EOI_1" options "AUTO_EOI_2" pseudo-device pty 32 #Pseudo ttys - can go as high as 256 pseudo-device log #Kernel syslog interface (/dev/klog) pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn 4 #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) controller isa0 device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr options MAXCONS=2 # number of virtual consoles controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 options "CMD640" controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 flags 0x80ff80ff vector wdintr options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM device wcd0 device wcd1 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" iosiz 0x0 flags 0x0 irq 13 vector npxintr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr options PSM_CHECKSYNC #checks the header byte for sync. device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr device ep1 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 11 vector epintr controller pci0 Finally, when I changed the device wcd0 and device wcd1 lines to the following 'device wcd0 at wdc1 disk 0' and 'device wcd1 at wdc1 disk 1' I was able to get it to recognize, before the kernel panic-ed with a 'wdc0 already attached' error message. -- David Cross IMS UNIX Support GE Corportate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 10:13:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:13:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04330 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA00375 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:12:45 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: anoncvs... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... I'm trying to setup anoncvs here (postgresql.org) and can't seem to get it to work, so I figured I'd try the FreeBSD one, and it appears that it doesn't want to work either: hub> setenv CVSROOT anoncvs@anoncvs.freebsd.org:/cvs hub> cvs checkout ls cvs checkout: cannot find module `ls' - ignored hub> cvs co ls cvs checkout: cannot find module `ls' - ignored hub> I'm just trying to use the example from the URL: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook265.html If I try to set it up on postgresql.org, using 'pserver', I can do a 'cvs login' successfully, but as soon as I try and do a checkout there, I get: relay:/home/centre/marc> cvs checkout -P pgsql cvs server: existing repository /usr/local/cvsroot does not match \ /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql cvs server: ignoring module pgsql But if I do a 'cvs login' as myself (writer vs reader), it all works fine. So, first off, what am I doing wrong with the above 'freebsd' example? and, assuming someone out there has had experience with setting this up, what does the error mean for the above 'postgresql' example? Thanks... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 10:18:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05475 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:17:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA01073; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:17:34 -0400 (EDT) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Tom cc: Bruce Momjian , mimo@interdata.com.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@postgreSQL.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sorting big tables :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Tom wrote: > > On Wed, 20 May 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > One of the things that the Unix FS does is auto-defragmenting, at > > least the UFS one does. Whenever the system is idle (from my > > understanding), the kernel uses that time to clean up the file systems, to > > reduce the file system fragmentation. > > No, that doesn't happen. The only way to eliminate fragmentation is a > dump/newfs/restore cycle. UFS does do fragmentation avoidance (which is > reason UFS filesystems have a 10% reserve). Okay, then we have two different understandings of this. My understanding was that the 10% reserve gave the OS a 'temp area' in which to move blocks to/from so that it could defrag on the fly... Am CC'ng this into freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org for a "third opinion"...am willing to admit I'm wrong *grin* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 10:26:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07171 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eta.ghs.com (root@eta.ghs.com [208.8.104.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07114 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:25:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ross@teraflop.com) Received: from random.teraflop.com (random.teraflop.com [192.67.158.207]) by eta.ghs.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27537; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ross@localhost) by random.teraflop.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16750; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Harvey Message-Id: <199805201724.KAA16750@random.teraflop.com> To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Subject: Re: StrongARM and history Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 20 09:51:19 1998 > From: Darren Reed > Subject: Re: StrongARM and history > To: peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:16:34 +1000 (EST) > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > In some mail from Peter Jeremy, sie said: > > > > On Mon, 18 May 1998 13:15:03 -0700 (PDT), Julian Elischer wrote: > > >do we have a strong-arm version of FreeBSD coming up? :-) > > I suspect you'll find a NetBSD version. (There was a talk at AUUG'97 > > on DEC's NC `DNARD', based on a SA-110. > > Sigh. > > Word has it that DEC sold out to Microsoft and scrapped the project. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Yes, NetBSD supports the arm32 and the DNARD (there are at least a thousand around here and there) in particular. I heard that rumor too, that M$ said: "So, if you want Windoze NoThanks to keep running on the alpha, cancel that NC project". But, I don't totally believe it. They may have even said it, but I bet Compaq would have pulled the plug anyway: I mean, the whole point of the NC is to make an alternative to the corporate PC avalanche...why would Compaq fund such a thing now that they have the keys? Of course, the cancellation did seem a little early to be a Compaq move. Who knows? Ross Harvey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 10:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07727 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0ycCCD-0003H5-00; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:58:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: The Hermit Hacker cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sorting big tables :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Wed, 20 May 1998, Tom wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 20 May 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > > > One of the things that the Unix FS does is auto-defragmenting, at > > > least the UFS one does. Whenever the system is idle (from my > > > understanding), the kernel uses that time to clean up the file systems, to > > > reduce the file system fragmentation. > > > > No, that doesn't happen. The only way to eliminate fragmentation is a > > dump/newfs/restore cycle. UFS does do fragmentation avoidance (which is > > reason UFS filesystems have a 10% reserve). > > Okay, then we have two different understandings of this. My > understanding was that the 10% reserve gave the OS a 'temp area' in which > to move blocks to/from so that it could defrag on the fly... The 10% reserve is use to avoid fragmentation and excessive CPU usage from fragmenting files all over the place. Besides fragmentation is not really much of performance problem, unless the fragmentation is excessive. This is not DOS, so the filesystem may be doing lots more than reading one file at a time. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 11:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17626; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:18:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199805201818.LAA17626@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-Reply-To: from jack at "May 20, 98 09:17:57 am" To: jack@germanium.xtalwind.net (jack) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, grog@lemis.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jack wrote: > > [snip] > > > > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was > > > > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 > > > > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said > > > > they would but by that time they had missed their window. > > As I heard it, Motorola wouldn't allow second sourcing of its > chip. Intel was hungry enough, at that time, to go for the idea. > Can you say AMD? :) wasnt this part of "operation crush". intel was selling chips below cost in an effort to get 1000+ design wins in a single year....the target was motorola....at lest this is how i remember it from "inside intel". jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:12:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01656 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:12:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com (send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA01485 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lc001@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980520191129.18098.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Received: from [139.87.242.56] by send1b; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:11:29 PDT Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: C L Subject: Questions about Packet Filter To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package into the specified network interface. How about the packages written by other network or transport protocols? 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both incoming and outgoing packages? 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? I may need to port my code to these OSs. Thanks, Carl == **_____________ Have a nice day _______________** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06089 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:28:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05955; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id VAA07914; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:15:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16667; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:41:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980520204108.A15495@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:41:08 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: hm@hcs.de, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: phk@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (Free-)BSD social event June 1998 update References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Hellmuth Michaelis on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 10:53:12AM +0200 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 10:53:12AM +0200, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > To answer all those FAQ's i've set up a web page which will be constantly > updated: http://www.hcs.de/users/hm/june98.html. Looks nice ... btw, perhaps we should send Paul Henning Kamp a copy ?! -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:33:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07204 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07113 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02894; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805201920.MAA02894@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Ross Harvey Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StrongARM and history Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:20:22 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Ross Harvey wrote: > Yes, NetBSD supports the arm32 and the DNARD (there are at least a thousand > around here and there) in particular. > > I heard that rumor too, that M$ said: "So, if you want Windoze NoThanks to > keep running on the alpha, cancel that NC project". ...and let's also not forget that the DNARD design was adopted by other companies. You _will_ see DNARD-based systems from other manufacturers. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:38:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08369 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08271 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05975; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:36:17 +0200 (CEST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: hm@hcs.de, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (Free-)BSD social event June 1998 update In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 20:41:08 +0200." <19980520204108.A15495@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:36:17 +0200 Message-ID: <5973.895692977@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <19980520204108.A15495@klemm.gtn.com>, Andreas Klemm writes: >On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 10:53:12AM +0200, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: >> >> To answer all those FAQ's i've set up a web page which will be constantly >> updated: http://www.hcs.de/users/hm/june98.html. > >Looks nice ... btw, perhaps we should send Paul Henning Kamp >a copy ?! ARG!!!! I'll be sitting in a crowded lousy plane on the way home from a 40C 100% humidity stay in New Orleans while you guys guzzle beer down your throat in the nice midsummer night... What did I do to you to deserve this ??? Darn! Seriously: I can't attend that weekend, the USEnix conference is the week right up to it, and I'll be in New Orleans that entire week. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:48:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11209 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:48:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11136 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:48:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA13819; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:44:19 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199805201944.NAA13819@narnia.plutotech.com> To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scanning in video Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you wrote: > well, i'm supposed to know how to do this, but I don't. I need a way to > grab video frames from either D1 or similar format under remote control. > I need to be able to control it a frame at a time. Any hints on cards > that do this, and freebsd drivers to control them? What's your budget? 8-) Do you want uncompressed images? The only support I know of for FreeBSD in this case is with a Pluto Space recorder. It will record full uncompressed D1 to it's internal array and spit out the data in one of 5 formats over SMB, NFS, or AFS. It can also write modified images in any of those formats back to it's media for VTR/DDR type playout. Does audio too. The box runs FreeBSD, so you can write whatever programs you want to run on the box. Base price is ~25k for 30min of video capacity. It may be a little pricy for what you want, but it is a FreeBSD solution! 8-) www.plutotech.com -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:50:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11447 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01405; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805201845.LAA01405@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: C L cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 12:11:29 PDT." <19980520191129.18098.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:45:46 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > by other network or transport protocols? Yes. A simple test would have show you this. > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > incoming and outgoing packages? Yes. > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? No. > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? Most support something similar. > I may need to port my code to these OSs. Use libpcap, which provides a unified abstraction on top of most of these platforms already. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 12:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12799 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12712 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA04246; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:55:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:55:34 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Simple Virtual Memory Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 May 1998, zhihuizhang wrote: > > I believe the following VM questions are simple to experts and hope one of > them will help me out (simple answer is OK): > > (1) I think the linked address should be the virtual address. The > kernel is linked at virtual address 0xf0100000 (specified by the linker > option -T ) and loaded at 0x00100000 (that is the reason why the > relocation macro R(foo) works in locore.s). So what is the meaning of > KERNBASE (0xf0000000)? The kernel image should start at 0xf0100000, not > 0xf0000000. Besides, we have constants like UPT_MIN_ADDRESS and > UPT_MAX_ADDRESS which are even less than KERNBASE. Can anyone clarify > the use of virtual memory address space in kernel for me? KERNBASE is the 4Mb aligned address of the start of kernel virtual memory. It needs to be aligned since it is silly to share a pagetable between user and kernel mode. > > (2) In locore.s, we install a pde for a temporary double map of bottom of > VA by the following statements: > > movl R(_KPTphys), %eax > xorl %ebx, %ebx > movl $1, %ecx > fillkpt(R(_IdlePTD), $PG_RW) > > The mapping is cleared, if I am correct, in pmap_bootstrap() by the > following statement: > > * (int *) PTD = 0; I think this just clears the mapping for 0-4Mb. Not sure why its there. > > I have not found any usage of this mapping before it is cleared. Am I > wrong? If yes, what is the usage for this temporary mapping? > > (3) In routine pmap_growkernel(), we have the following statement: > > *pmap_pde(kernel_pmap, kernel_vm_end) = pdir_pde(PTD, kernel_vm_end); > > Is this redundant? Because we already have a statement in the same > routine (before the above statement) which says: > > pdir_pde(PTD, kernel_vm_end) = > (pd_entry_t)(VM_PAGE_TO_PHYS(nkpg) | PG_V |PG_RW); I believe that the earlier statement is just to install the new mapping in the current PTD. The rest is to copy it into all the other pmaps (all pmaps share the mappings for all the kernel segments). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 13:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14164 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14058; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from localhost (crb@localhost) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA00367; Wed, 20 May 1998 16:02:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) X-Authentication-Warning: quark.ChrisBowman.com: crb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:02:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher R. Bowman" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: jack , jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, grog@lemis.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC (was: talk (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199805201818.LAA17626@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >jack wrote: >> >> [snip] >> > > > I think the reason they went with Intel instead of Motorola was >> > > > Intel told them the chip was ready, and Motorola told them 6 >> > > > months. Intel lied and shipped late. Motorola shipped when they said >> > > > they would but by that time they had missed their window. >> >> As I heard it, Motorola wouldn't allow second sourcing of its >> chip. Intel was hungry enough, at that time, to go for the idea. >> Can you say AMD? :) > > wasnt this part of "operation crush". intel was selling > chips below cost in an effort to get 1000+ design wins in > a single year....the target was motorola....at lest this > is how i remember it from "inside intel". I don't know, but what a fuck up, as in the end the 68000s were second sourced by at least signetics, and perhaps one other, I don't remember. Though I do seem to remember that the second sourcing stoped around the 030 or 040 --------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com My home page To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 13:40:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20703 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rrz.Hanse.DE (rrz.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20517 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:39:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from daemon.Hanse.DE (daemon.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.17]) by rrz.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09062 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:38:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: from transit.hanse.de (transit.Hanse.DE [193.174.9.161]) by daemon.Hanse.DE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28717 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:38:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stb@transit.hanse.de) Received: (from stb@localhost) by transit.hanse.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21664; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:42:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:42:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Stefan Bethke To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wiring down ppp if Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Because I like to associate a given tty with a particular ppp (multiple leased lines together with ipfw and accounting), I wonder how complicated this could be achieved. The current method (in sys/net/ppp_tty.c and if_ppp.c) is: - pppd sets PPPDISC - ppp_tty.c:pppopen() calls pppalloc() - pppalloc selects first free unit (if available). I would propose to modify this to: - pppd sets PPPDISC then either - pppd does an ioctl(PPPIOCGUNIT) - ppp_tty.c:pppopen() calls pppalloc(p->pid, -1) - pppalloc selects first free unit (if available). - ioctl returns unit or - pppd does an ioctl(PPPIOSUNIT) - ppp_tty.c:pppopen() calls pppalloc(p->pid, unit) - pppalloc assigns requested unit, if available - ioctl returns unit Additionally, pppd would need to know about a config parameter, say "unit", or "interface". Is there anything this change would break? Stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 13:45:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21708 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21346 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01877; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:42:19 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA08394; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:42:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980520224217.59904@follo.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:42:17 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Studded , Josef Karthauser Cc: Studded , "Daniel O'Connor" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft References: <199805150838.SAA24038@cain.gsoft.com.au> <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net> <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> <35630876.7C09196C@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35630876.7C09196C@san.rr.com>; from Studded on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 09:44:38AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 09:44:38AM -0700, Studded wrote: > I've heard good things about it, but unfortunately the main app that I > want to run is an IRC client and the docs I read for bochs say that it > doesn't do network'ed apps. I would be happy to be proven wrong though. > :) You mIRC freak... mIRC is reported to work perfectly with WINE, and has been reported that way for many moons. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 13:46:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21907 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:46:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21622 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01952; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:44:31 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA09099; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:44:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980520224430.04725@follo.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:44:30 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@postgreSQL.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sorting big tables :( References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 01:17:34PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 01:17:34PM -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Wed, 20 May 1998, Tom wrote: > > No, that doesn't happen. The only way to eliminate fragmentation is a > > dump/newfs/restore cycle. UFS does do fragmentation avoidance (which is > > reason UFS filesystems have a 10% reserve). > > Okay, then we have two different understandings of this. My > understanding was that the 10% reserve gave the OS a 'temp area' in which > to move blocks to/from so that it could defrag on the fly... No. What is done is (quite correctly) fragmentation avoidance. Big files are even sometimes fragmented on purpose, to allow small files that are written later to avoid being fragmented. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 13:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22347 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1c.yahoomail.com (send1c.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22071 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lc001@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980520204810.7890.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Received: from [139.87.242.56] by send1c; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:48:10 PDT Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:48:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "L.C." Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks a lot Mike. Are these BPF alike devices capable of "intercept" packages passing through them? I mean is it possible that after it intercepts the outgoing package it can modify the package contents(e.g. destination port) and inject into NIC? Or, modify the package contents when intercept the incoming packages and poll them back to the higher level protocols or applications? Carl ---Mike Smith wrote: > > > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > > by other network or transport protocols? > > Yes. A simple test would have show you this. > > > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > > incoming and outgoing packages? > > Yes. > > > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? > > No. > > > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? > > Most support something similar. > > > I may need to port my code to these OSs. > > Use libpcap, which provides a unified abstraction on top of most of > these platforms already. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > == **_____________ Have a nice day _______________** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 14:53:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.lustig.com (gate.lustig.com [205.246.2.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA06385 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barry@lustig.com) Received: (qmail 22744 invoked from network); 20 May 1998 21:52:23 -0000 Received: from devious.lustig.com (205.246.2.244) by gate.lustig.com with SMTP; 20 May 1998 21:52:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 11004 invoked by uid 21); 20 May 1998 21:52:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19980520215222.11003.qmail@devious.lustig.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148.RR) From: Barry Lustig Date: Wed, 20 May 98 17:52:20 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Strange Problems on 2.2.6 Reply-To: barry@lustig.com X-Organizations: Barry Lustig & Associates, Inc. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've got 2.2.6 running on a compaq desktop machine. This system is used for YP, DNS, sendmail, and pop. Over the past couple of days, it has gotten intro this very strange mode where, it will fork off dozens of inetd's, but not finish up with the exec of popper. Each of the inetd processes have a wait channel of select. Another strange thing is that top will stop showing CPU state information. All of the states are 0.0%. Does this ring a bell with anyone? My system is CVSUP'ed from a couple of weeks ago. barry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 14:59:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07126 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:57:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 3637"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IXADLPSMW0000YPH@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:57:01 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IXADLO9SJKB51FAT@cim.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:56:59 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id HAA15942 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:56:58 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:56:58 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Intel vs the rest (was `Original PC' and `talk') To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199805202156.HAA15942@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998 10:43:54 +0200 (CEST), Oliver Fromme wrote: >There was also an 68000-8 with external 8 bit bus. As I remember, the 68008 came out much later. The only thing I can think of that used it was the Sinclair QL - which was mid-80's. On Wed, 20 May 1998 10:42:12 +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: >Is it me or is basically everyone here either a) Not a big fan of Intel >(strange considering what FreeBSD runs on ;-) Possibly as a result of having to work with the architecture :-) >b) Prefers the Motorola? (I certainly do!), and / or c) Largely used to own, >program, hack on Amiga's? - or at least want FreeBSD to work as well as the >Amiga did Agreed on all three. It's worth noting that Windoze-95 gave PC users the same capabilities that the Amiga had when it came out (PnP was part of the original Amiga spec). On Wed, 20 May 1998 19:58:48 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > but nowadays the register model isn't very important to >anybody except compiler writers. The register model _does_ directly affect performance (admittedly, only marginally). Also, the overall architecture has a substantial impact on the complexity/performance tradeoffs. The major effect is that having more registers means that local variables are less likely to spill onto the stack - where they'll be slower to access(*), result in larger code and may trigger further spills to provide work registers in the absence of orthoganal mem-mem instructions. (More registers also increase the instruction size, reducing code density where the registers aren't needed). As an example of the impact of an architectural decision on complexity: The 68k included a clear split between (non-modifiable) instructions and (modifiable) data, the x86 didn't (and early applications often used self-modifying code). This means that the x86 needs a unified cache, whilst the 68k uses a split cache - which gives it two immediate advantages: The I-cache is also somewhat simpler (no need for dirty bits or the write-{through,back} logic), allowing more of it for the same complexity. Dual caches allow parallel I and D accesses - ie effectively doubling the cache <-> CPU bandwidth (dual- porting the cache can be done, but entails a substantial increase in complexity). (The downside is that a unified cache will adjust to different code vs data footprints - giving somewhat better hit rates for a given total cache size). Have a look at the performance vs transistor counts for things like Chuck Moore's MuP21. (*) The stated instruction timings may be the same but when you account for all the caveats on memory accesses, it'll be slower in reality. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 15:35:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13313 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:35:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [140.174.82.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12697 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billy@idiom.com) Received: from localhost (billy@localhost) by idiom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22551; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Billy Thompson To: Chris Silva cc: FreeBSD - Hackers Subject: Re: Enlightenment & other themes In-Reply-To: <000c01bd83f2$96d88b20$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Chris Silva wrote: > Hi again, > > Ok, so far I've corrected my launching of Enlightenment, and the XDM > problem I had. Can someone tell me of how to use any other theme > other than DEFAULT (for now, I've renamed one to DEFAULT) OR, point me > to a FAQ on how to launch other themes. > > I've visited www.rasterman.com - but there is not much there as far > as help goes. > The first thing you want to do is download some themes. I know Aliens and Bovinity have no problems running under release 0.13. Themes are either in a tarball or a gzipped tarball. You do NOT need to untar OR unzip the themes, but you can if you want to make loading faster. Put these theme files in either the Enlightenment homedirectory under themes or under you own home directory under .enlightenment or something like that, again in the themes directory. I prefer Enlightenment's home directory on the system cause if you have multiple accounts on the system everybody can read them. In your .xinitrc or .xsession you launch enlightement. The way to specify a theme is 'enlightenment -theme theTheme'. I'm completely sure, but I think that -theme is the right option. 'theTheme' will be the complete name of file without any path. ex. Download Bovinity; Put Bovinity in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/enlightnment/themes/ edit .xinitrc -> 'enlightenment -theme Bovinity' -billy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 15:39:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13905 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:39:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13606 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA11631; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA05372; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35635AEC.4C45116D@3skel.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:36:28 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "L.C." CC: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter References: <19980520204810.7890.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG L.C. wrote: > Thanks a lot Mike. > > Are these BPF alike devices capable of "intercept" packages passing > through them? > It sounds like what you want is divert(4). natd uses it. Dan -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 18:20:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11302 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stingray.ivision.co.uk (stingray.ivision.co.uk [195.50.91.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11162 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from manar@ivision.co.uk) Received: from pretender.ivision.co.uk [194.112.51.6] by stingray.ivision.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0ycK16-0002ho-00; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:19:35 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980521021820.008771f0@stingray.ivision.co.uk> X-Sender: manarpop@stingray.ivision.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:18:20 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Manar Hussain Subject: Re: StrongARM and history Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now this brings back memories again. As indicated by others there's no apparent freebsd port to the strongarm but there is a pretty well developed netbsd port sometimes called RiscBSD for historical reasons. Back in the early days of that port it was very nearly FreeBSD - Gary Palmer had already got some way with a freebsd port to the arm platform when I and a group of others started talking about RiscBSD ... but for various reasons we plumbed for NetBSD. A while ago the people involved in RiscBSD set up Causality (www.causality.com) largely, but not fully, due to the noises about NC related commercial possibilities for the team officially doing the netbsd/arm port. (I say the people because at this point I seemed to drop out of the picture). Causality has done various work for NCI/DEC and others and also has a joint venture in a company called ChalTech (www.chaltech.com) that is more hardware orientated and is just now releasing a strongarm/PCI/IDE/ATX/etc. board that will of course run NetBSD/Arm. Manar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 18:36:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14296 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14152 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18604; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <356384CC.5B1F602@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:35:08 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and mIRC References: <199805150838.SAA24038@cain.gsoft.com.au> <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net> <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> <35630876.7C09196C@san.rr.com> <19980520224217.59904@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [cc:'s trimmed] Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Wed, May 20, 1998 at 09:44:38AM -0700, Studded wrote: > > I've heard good things about it, but unfortunately the main app that I > > want to run is an IRC client and the docs I read for bochs say that it > > doesn't do network'ed apps. I would be happy to be proven wrong though. > > :) > > You mIRC freak... > > mIRC is reported to work perfectly with WINE, and has been reported > that way for many moons. And those reports are all from linux users. Mirc starts and runs for a while in wine, however after a period of time (how long depending on what kind of mood it's in) all incoming packets never make it to mirc. You can send just fine, but nothing comes in at all. It seems to be something intrinsic to freebsd that is causing the problem since it does this for me with wine on -Stable, and a friend of mine tried both wine and wabi (compiled from source) on -Current and the same exact thing happened. There are also problems with script and ini file corruption running mirc in wine, but I could work around those if I could just get it to stay running. :) If anyone has an actual working configuration or mirc + wine (or any other windows emulator) in freebsd I would love to hear from that person and discuss details. However I put a lot of hours into trying to make it work and I never could. Thanks, Doug PS, is there any target date for bochs to have networking ability? -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of one of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 19:35:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ssh.fi (ssh.fi [194.100.44.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24481 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ylo@ssh.fi) Received: from pilari.ssh.fi (pilari.ssh.fi [192.168.2.1]) by ssh.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8/EPIPE-1.13) with ESMTP id FAA21335; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:34:04 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from ylo@localhost) by pilari.ssh.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8/EPIPE-1.10) id FAA14940; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:33:43 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:33:43 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805210233.FAA14940@pilari.ssh.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tatu Ylonen To: "Erik E. Rantapaa" Cc: Raphael Manfredi , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ssh/FreeBSD/Storable interaction? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 19.34.2 Organization: SSH Communications Security, Finland Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I would like to report a weird behavior with a system involving > ssh-1.2.20, FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE and the Perl5 module "Storable". > I have a 7-line perl5 script for which the commands: > > perl-script > ssh localhost perl-script > > produce different output. The output of the ssh version has the same > length but the output is rearranged. Perhaps the script outputs to both stdout and stderr? Ssh passes stdout and stderr data separately, and there is no guarantee that data will arrive in sequence if text is written to both file descriptors simultaneously. Tatu -- SSH Communications Security http://www.ssh.fi/ SSH IPSEC Toolkit http://www.ssh.fi/ipsec/ Free Unix SSH http://www.cs.hut.fi/ssh/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 20:40:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05968 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (root@gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05843 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soekris@alameda.net) Received: by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.9.0.Beta5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA14854 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:40:04 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo soren.soekris from soekris@alameda.net server @207.90.187.212 ip 207.90.187.212 Message-ID: <3563A210.31CF@alameda.net> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:40:00 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Reply-To: soekris@alameda.net Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC and talk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lets get it clear why IBM choose the 8088: The PC design team wanted more than a 8 bit CPU in their new PC, but they didn't want to go to full 16 bit, as most peripheral chips (especially cheap ones) at that time was 8 bit and DRAM was only avaliable in x1 types. (IBM actually planned to release a machine with only 16 kbyte....) And at the time the decision was made, sometime around 1980, the only avaliable chip that fit their need was Intel's 8088. Motorola only had the 68000 avaliable, 68008, the 8 bit bus version, came later. But IBM was also using the 8086 in their Displaywriter Word Processor, which may have influenced the choice. (Funny machine with big 8 inch floppies, I once played with cp/m-86 on it :-) So that's why we are stuck with the x86 family, like it or not. But I don't think it is as bad as a lot a people make it. It don't have a nice architecture (anybody remember the great 32000 series from national semiconductor ?), but the x86 is quite powerfull in assembler (my favorite progamming language....), even with its limited number of registers. And who writes code in assembler anymore ? And with todays chips sizes the underlying processor architecture dosn't matter so much anyway, it's more a matter of cache sizes and memory bandwidth. There was actually a short time where the new Pentium Pro-200 was the fastest processor in the world, measured in specint95 and specfp95.... Best Regards, Soren Kristensen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 21:03:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09565 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-01.cdsnet.net (mail-01.cdsnet.net [206.107.16.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09472 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:02:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mrcpu@internetcds.com) Received: (qmail 1513 invoked from network); 21 May 1998 04:02:47 -0000 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (204.118.244.32) by mail.cdsnet.net with SMTP; 21 May 1998 04:02:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:02:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen X-Sender: mrcpu@schizo.cdsnet.net To: Igor Timkin cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: panic: blkfree: freeling free block/frag In-Reply-To: <199805191226.QAA16988@crocus.gamma.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Exact same problem and resolution I reported a looong time ago. 3.0, no problem, 2.2.5, crash city. Glad it worked. On Tue, 19 May 1998, Igor Timkin wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > > Every 4-8 days my news server (~10 full incoming feeds, ~50 > > > outgoing feeds) crash: > > > panic: blkfree: freeing free block > > > or > > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > > > [ ... ] > > > > > /dev/ccd0c /var/spool/news ufs rw,async,noatime,noexec,nosuid 0 2 > > > > [ ... ] > > > > > dev=0x1502, block=20372, fs=/var/spool/news > > > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > > > syncing disk > > > (unfortunately at this point the system is freeze and I have > > > make the hardware reset, so I don't have crash dump). > > > > [ ... ] > > > > > Any suggestion ? > > > > Short answer: > > > > Your options are: > > > > (1) Live with it > > (2) Don't mount the device async > > > > Long Answer: > > > > Generally, this type of problem means you should rebuild the news spool, > > since *any* corruption could result in invalid information on the disk > > that could result in a panic. > > > > Most likely, you crashed once, and you expected fsck to do something > > that it can't do reliably: recover an async mounted partition. The > > partition was "recovered" and marked clean, but when you reference > > a particular disk metadata construct, it goes off into the weeds > > because the recovery was imperfect. > > > > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > > > I solved this problem. After upgrade 2.2.5-REL to 3.0-971225-SNAP > my nntp server has uptime: > 4:20PM up 38 days, 17:46, 7 users, load averages: 1.92, 1.68, 1.92 > kernel configs and patches for 512M RAM are identical for both 2.2.5 and 3.0. > No any panics. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 21:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12706 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:19:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles354.castles.com [208.214.167.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12609 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00373; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805210315.UAA00373@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Studded cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and mIRC In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 18:35:08 PDT." <356384CC.5B1F602@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:15:11 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [cc:'s trimmed] > this for me with wine on -Stable, and a friend of mine tried both wine > and wabi (compiled from source) on -Current and the same exact thing > happened. Do you want to follow the implications of your Wabi comment there through, perhaps? > PS, is there any target date for bochs to have networking ability? I would guess 6-12 months at least. It will require a NIC hardware emulation to be written, which isn't going to happen fast. Then there are plenty of technical issues involved. We discussed them on the bochs list a few months back, and I think Kevin got the general idea, but he has his own goals that are likely to dictate timing. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 21:27:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles354.castles.com [208.214.167.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14315 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:26:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00447; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805210322.UAA00447@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "L.C." cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 13:48:10 PDT." <19980520204810.7890.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:22:33 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Thanks a lot Mike. > > Are these BPF alike devices capable of "intercept" packages passing > through them? > > I mean is it possible that after it intercepts the outgoing package it > can modify the package contents(e.g. destination port) and inject into > NIC? No - you receive a copy of a packet that has passed by sometime previously. As people have already mentioned, you sound like you need the divert(4) functionality. Note that, to the best of my knowledge, none of the other systems that you mentioned offer this functionality - for all of these you need to add kernel-internal compontents. If you want to study how it's done for Solaris/NetBSD/FreeBSD, you can look at Darren Reed's ipfilter tool, which is an in-kernel firewall for these platforms. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 21:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19069 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA19159; Wed, 20 May 1998 23:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:47:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Soren Kristensen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC and talk In-Reply-To: <3563A210.31CF@alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 May 1998, Soren Kristensen wrote: > Lets get it clear why IBM choose the 8088: > > The PC design team wanted more than a 8 bit CPU in their new PC, but > they didn't want to go to full 16 bit, as most peripheral chips > (especially cheap ones) at that time was 8 bit and DRAM was only > avaliable in x1 types. (IBM actually planned to release a machine with > only 16 kbyte....) > And at the time the decision was made, sometime around 1980, the only > avaliable chip that fit their need was Intel's 8088. Motorola only had > the 68000 avaliable, 68008, the 8 bit bus version, came later. > > But IBM was also using the 8086 in their Displaywriter Word Processor, > which may have influenced the choice. (Funny machine with big 8 inch > floppies, I once played with cp/m-86 on it :-) > > So that's why we are stuck with the x86 family, like it or not. But I > don't think it is as bad as a lot a people make it. It don't have a nice > architecture (anybody remember the great 32000 series from national > semiconductor ?), but the x86 is quite powerfull in assembler (my > favorite progamming language....), Actually, as just about any modern text shows, the X86 architecture is the slowest one out there. Take a look at one of the recent Hennesey & Patterson texts, you'll see. even with its limited number of > registers. And who writes code in assembler anymore ? Which is precisely why you don't want a processor that makes life easy on assembly language writers, the compilers are the only ones spewing assembly anymore, you want a processor to execute instructions FAST. Intel's X86 architecture is miserable for real optimization, although one must admit that Intel has done just about everything they could do to make a horrible instruction set go quickly. All the tricks they use, the RISC processors use, but the RISC processors are designed to make best use of those tricks, and the X86 architecture isn't. All those tricks (the same ones) are why processors like the DEC Alpha are so hot. Things like register renaming don't give you much improvement if you're talking about such a tiny humber of registers to begin with (referring to the X86 here). > > And with todays chips sizes the underlying processor architecture dosn't > matter so much anyway, it's more a matter of cache sizes and memory > bandwidth. > There was actually a short time where the new Pentium Pro-200 was the > fastest processor in the world, measured in specint95 and specfp95.... > > > > Best Regards, > > > Soren Kristensen > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 20 23:09:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02601 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 23:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.15.68.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02564 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 23:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@zeta.org.au) Received: from gurney.reilly.home (d32.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.32]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA30161; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:02:18 +1000 Received: (from andrew@localhost) by gurney.reilly.home (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA28620; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:07:17 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Reilly Message-Id: <199805210207.MAA28620@gurney.reilly.home> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:07:16 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: StrongARM and history To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov cc: ross@teraflop.com, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805201920.MAA02894@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 May, Jason Thorpe wrote: > ...and let's also not forget that the DNARD design was adopted by other > companies. You _will_ see DNARD-based systems from other manufacturers. Any hints about specifics? I think I'd like one, if it was cheap enough... -- Andrew "The steady state of disks is full." -- Ken Thompson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 02:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00955 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00928 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:04:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11116; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA23065; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA03371; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:04:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199805210904.CAA03371@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:04:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith "Re: Questions about Packet Filter" (May 20, 11:45am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Mike Smith , C L Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 20, 11:45am, Mike Smith wrote: } Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter } } > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network } > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both } > incoming and outgoing packages? } } Yes. SunOS 4.x NIT can only look at inbound packets. This is a pain because if you have only one Sun, you can't examine both sides of the conversation. In Solaris 2.x the equivalent feature is called Data Link Provider Interface. I don't know whether it has the same limitation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 05:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24816 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24781 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199805211203.FAA24781@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA269992214; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:03:34 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter To: lc001@yahoo.com (C L) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:03:34 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980520191129.18098.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> from "C L" at May 20, 98 12:11:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from C L, sie said: > > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > by other network or transport protocols? > > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > incoming and outgoing packages? > > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? > > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? > > I may need to port my code to these OSs. What sort of packet filter are you writing that you want to port your software to all of these ? Sounds like you may have written a lot of code without doing any research about what you're writing it for... Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 05:15:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hunter.softcon.de (hunter.softcon.de [193.31.11.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA26462 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de) Received: (from mail@localhost) by hunter.softcon.de (8.6.9/8.6.12) id OAA17372 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:17:39 +0200 Received: from boell.softcon.de(193.31.10.71) by hunter.softcon.de via smap (V1.3) id sma017367; Thu May 21 14:17:19 1998 Received: from hunter.softcon.de (torwart.SOFTCON.de [193.31.10.94]) by boell.SOFTCON.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA17968; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:12:17 GMT Received: (from guru@localhost) by mail.sisis.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00271; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:56:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru) Message-Id: <199805211156.NAA00271@hunter.softcon.de> Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter In-Reply-To: <199805210904.CAA03371@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from Don Lewis at "May 21, 98 02:04:35 am" To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:56:28 +0200 (CEST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, lc001@yahoo.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de (Matthias Apitz) From: Matthias.Apitz@SOFTCON.de (Matthias Apitz) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Lewis wrote: On May 20, 11:45am, Mike Smith wrote: } Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter } } > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network } > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both } > incoming and outgoing packages? } } Yes. SunOS 4.x NIT can only look at inbound packets. This is a pain because if you have only one Sun, you can't examine both sides of the conversation. In Solaris 2.x the equivalent feature is called Data Link Provider Interface. I don't know whether it has the same limitation. On SVR4.x the DLPI has this limitation too. matthias -- firm: matthias.apitz@sisis.de [voc:+49 89 61308 351, fax: +49 89 61308 188] priv: guru@thias.muc.de WWW: http://www.sisis.de/~guru/ "We don't care. We don't have to. You'll buy whatever we ship, so why bother? We're Microsoft." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 05:23:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27507 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27501 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10060; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:23:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id HAA00066; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:23:03 -0500 Message-ID: <19980521072302.21950@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:23:02 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Chuck Robey Cc: Soren Kristensen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC and talk References: <3563A210.31CF@alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on May 05, 1998 at 11:47:17PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 05, 1998 at 11:47:17PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > All those tricks (the same ones) are why processors like the DEC Alpha > are so hot. Things like register renaming don't give you much > improvement if you're talking about such a tiny humber of registers to > begin with (referring to the X86 here). Huh? Register renaming (from the architecture's point of view) only refers to the internal on-chip registers (reservation stations), not the externally visible registers (from the compiler's point of view). There can be a lot of internal registers. These are marshalled and committed (or squashed) by the reorder buffer at the end of execution (assuming a relatively modern chip here). This reordering does give a performance boost, even if there are only a few architecturally visible registers, as in the case of x86. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 05:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA01372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA01366 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:49:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA03004; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:36:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:36:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel vs the rest (was `Original PC' and `talk') In-Reply-To: <199805202156.HAA15942@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: > As an example of the impact of an architectural decision on > complexity: The 68k included a clear split between (non-modifiable) > instructions and (modifiable) data, the x86 didn't (and early > applications often used self-modifying code). This means that the x86 > needs a unified cache, whilst the 68k uses a split cache - which gives > it two immediate advantages: The I-cache is also somewhat simpler (no > need for dirty bits or the write-{through,back} logic), allowing more > of it for the same complexity. Dual caches allow parallel I and D > accesses - ie effectively doubling the cache <-> CPU bandwidth (dual- > porting the cache can be done, but entails a substantial increase in > complexity). (The downside is that a unified cache will adjust to > different code vs data footprints - giving somewhat better hit rates > for a given total cache size). I have both. Data cache size: 16 Kbytes Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 512 Kbytes on Processor 0 All hail high end workstation makers. This is the SGI on my desk, lowly Indy that it is. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 06:44:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA09947 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA19634; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:45:51 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199805211345.JAA19634@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter To: lc001@yahoo.com (C L) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980520191129.18098.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> from "C L" at May 20, 98 12:11:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, C L had to walk into mine and say: > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > by other network or transport protocols? BPF monitors everything passing through the ethernet interface, regardless of the protocol. This is done by 'tapping' the receive and transmit routines. Packets received by the hardware are copied and sent to any processes that have established themselves as BPF listeners. Packets sent to the driver transmit routine are also copied before being sent out over the wire. It is also possible to use BPF to send raw frames as well as receive (this is how rarpd works). > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > incoming and outgoing packages? You're confusing two things. SunOS 4.1.x has NIT (Network Interface Tap) which can only monitor inbound frames: you can't see the hosts's own transmissions. Solaris 2.x uses DLPI (Data Link Provider Interface) which is a System V approach to what BPF does. You can monitor both inbound and outbound frames with DLPI. > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? Using raw sockets, you can intercept some traffic, but with limitations: - protocols that the kernel understands (like IP) are processed internally by the kernel and not passed to user processes - protocols not directly handled by the kernel can be recevied in raw sockets - you can use a raw socket to send a complete IP datagram, but not receive them since the kernel handles IP itself - you can't receive a complete ethernet frame with a raw socket: by the time the packet gets to the socket layer, the ethernet header has been removed > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? For HP-UX 9.x you have to purchase the DLPI support package from HP as it is not included with the OS. HP isn't supporting HP-UX 9 anymore, so this may be tough to do. HP-UX 10.x includes BPF support as part of the OS, so you don't need to buy anything extra. (I have tcpdump for my HP-UX 10.20 machines.) I think the same is true of HP-UX 11. Linux uses SOCK_SEQPACKET sockets to accomplish what BPF does, if I remember correctly. AIX actually supports both DLPI and BPF, however the BPF kernel module is not loaded by default. I recomment using BPF, but to get it to work you need to run the tcpdump command supplied with AIX (/usr/sbin/tcpdump) first; it will load the BPF module for you, and you can then use the BPF support afterwards. (You don't need to keep tcpdump running: just run it long enough for it to load the kernel module, then kill it.) (If you're really clever and know how to load the BPF module yourself, then you can do it manually.) You forgot IRIX. SGI IRIX uses something called 'snoop' sockets. Being based on System V it may also support DLPI. The libpcap library (ftp.ee.lbl.gov:/libpcap.tar.Z) works on all these platforms and provides a common interface that will make your life much easier than if you tried to use all these system-dependent interfaces yourself. Libpcap is also included with FreeBSD. _UNIX Network Programming 2nd Edition, Vol 1_ by Stevens also includes a section that describes libpcap and gives examples on how to use it. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 06:45:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10308 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.lmsal.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA10273 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@sag.lmsal.com) Received: from localhost by sag.lmsal.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19May98-0849AM) id AA07432; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:45:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Handy To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: anoncvs... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I didn't see anybody else trying this...] On Wed, 20 May 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > I'm trying to setup anoncvs here (postgresql.org) and can't seem >to get it to work, so I figured I'd try the FreeBSD one, and it appears >that it doesn't want to work either: > >hub> setenv CVSROOT anoncvs@anoncvs.freebsd.org:/cvs >hub> cvs checkout ls >cvs checkout: cannot find module `ls' - ignored I don't understand the guts of anoncvs, but the FreeBSD one does in fact work [I think]: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [6:34] spurned:~/temp > setenv CVSROOT anoncvs@anoncvs.freebsd.org:/cvs [6:35] spurned:~/temp > cvs checkout ls cvs server: Updating ls U ls/Makefile U ls/cmp.c U ls/extern.h U ls/ls.1 U ls/ls.c U ls/ls.h U ls/print.c U ls/stat_flags.c U ls/util.c ---------------------------------------------------------------------- So...anecdotal I guess, but it sounds like you've got something funny going on at your end. Regards, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 08:32:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from martini.office.cdsnet.net (martini.office.cdsnet.net [204.118.245.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25421 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reich@martini.office.cdsnet.net) Received: (qmail 8127 invoked by uid 1000); 21 May 1998 15:32:55 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:32:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahlon Smith X-Sender: reich@martini.cdsnet.net To: Chris Silva cc: FreeBSD - Hackers Subject: Re: Enlightenment & other themes In-Reply-To: <000c01bd83f2$96d88b20$ddb5a8b6@mis2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After you have downloaded the theme you want to use, _don't_ untar it. Stick something like this in your .xinitrc file. exec /usr/X11R6/bin/enlightenment -theme [path to your theme] That should do it. -Mahlon On Wed, 20 May 1998, Chris Silva wrote: > Hi again, > > Ok, so far I've corrected my launching of Enlightenment, and the XDM > problem I had. Can someone tell me of how to use any other theme > other than DEFAULT (for now, I've renamed one to DEFAULT) OR, point me > to a FAQ on how to launch other themes. k To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 08:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28971 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28879 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA20503; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Jonathan Lemon cc: Soren Kristensen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Original PC and talk In-Reply-To: <19980521072302.21950@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > On May 05, 1998 at 11:47:17PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > All those tricks (the same ones) are why processors like the DEC Alpha > > are so hot. Things like register renaming don't give you much > > improvement if you're talking about such a tiny humber of registers to > > begin with (referring to the X86 here). > > Huh? > > Register renaming (from the architecture's point of view) only refers > to the internal on-chip registers (reservation stations), not the > externally visible registers (from the compiler's point of view). It uses those invisible internal registers to store things coming from or going to real registers. The strategy is far more useful when there are more registers _to_ rename. > > There can be a lot of internal registers. These are marshalled and > committed (or squashed) by the reorder buffer at the end of execution > (assuming a relatively modern chip here). > > This reordering does give a performance boost, even if there are only > a few architecturally visible registers, as in the case of x86. > -- > Jonathan > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 10:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13241 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:10:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13067 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA04160 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:13:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:13:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ANN: New list - "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, hackers! I'm pleased to announce that a new mailing list has been created: you can join it by sending "subscribe freebsd-small" to majordomo@freebsd.org. This list discusses topics related to unusually small and embedded FreeBSD installations. I hope we will share ideas on: * booting process and devices (various filesystems, flash RAM, EEPROM etc...), * available and recommended hardware, * special hardware (peripherals such as probes, relays, readers, step motors etc, etc), and support for it, * details of (necessarily different) setup and configuration, * user applications (shall we say: router? :) and real-life applications, * special setups such as PicoBSD, * and many others. I'm also willing to maintain WWW pages related to these topics. I know some of you have some experience in this area, and I encourage you to submit ideas and pointers. There are already a few things I've been collecting for some time... Please see http://www.freebsd.org/~abial for these. Andrzej Bialecki --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@nask.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. --------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 10:18:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15059 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15035 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13751 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:55:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199805211655.MAA13751@hda.hda.com> Subject: Talking UDP at a given port? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll show my networking ignorance: I just got a device that talks ASCII at a UDP port. What is the way to initially poke at this think without writing a program? I can write one but figure I should know this. This is a Keithley SmartLink - a small 68K family based data acq device you can hang on an ethernet. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 11:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25208 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lc001@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980521180613.19279.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [139.87.242.56] by send1d; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:06:13 PDT Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "L.C." Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Many thanks to all the knowledgeable people for the valuable information. I will read the book you mentioned, try the methods you suggested and do more research on these. Ever developed the drivers about two years ago to intercept the packages in the link layer(NDIS in Windows...) and just finished a project to intercept the data stream in the socket level(LSP in WinSock2)I need to port all these Windows codes to possible UNIX platforms. I've done some UNIX programming in both kernel and application levels before but never played BPF or DLPI rationales. I do have further questions: 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan mentioned available in somewhere? I may have two UNIX projects for two different groups in my company. One is just monitoring and another one is to intercept the packages. I think BPF and DLPI may satisfy my first need but not the second one. 2. So, there is no any way, tool, or utility can intercept the data flowing in the socket level(like LSP in WinSock2)? Any plan about this? Thanks, Carl ---Bill Paul wrote: > > Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, C L had to walk > into mine and say: > > > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > > by other network or transport protocols? > > BPF monitors everything passing through the ethernet interface, regardless > of the protocol. This is done by 'tapping' the receive and transmit > routines. Packets received by the hardware are copied and sent to any > processes that have established themselves as BPF listeners. Packets > sent to the driver transmit routine are also copied before being sent > out over the wire. > > It is also possible to use BPF to send raw frames as well as receive > (this is how rarpd works). > > > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > > incoming and outgoing packages? > > You're confusing two things. SunOS 4.1.x has NIT (Network Interface Tap) > which can only monitor inbound frames: you can't see the hosts's own > transmissions. Solaris 2.x uses DLPI (Data Link Provider Interface) > which is a System V approach to what BPF does. You can monitor both > inbound and outbound frames with DLPI. > > > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? > > Using raw sockets, you can intercept some traffic, but with limitations: > > - protocols that the kernel understands (like IP) are processed internally > by the kernel and not passed to user processes > - protocols not directly handled by the kernel can be recevied in raw > sockets > - you can use a raw socket to send a complete IP datagram, but not > receive them since the kernel handles IP itself > - you can't receive a complete ethernet frame with a raw socket: by the > time the packet gets to the socket layer, the ethernet header has been > removed > > > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? > > For HP-UX 9.x you have to purchase the DLPI support package from HP > as it is not included with the OS. HP isn't supporting HP-UX 9 anymore, > so this may be tough to do. > > HP-UX 10.x includes BPF support as part of the OS, so you don't need > to buy anything extra. (I have tcpdump for my HP-UX 10.20 machines.) > I think the same is true of HP-UX 11. > > Linux uses SOCK_SEQPACKET sockets to accomplish what BPF does, if I > remember correctly. > > AIX actually supports both DLPI and BPF, however the BPF kernel module > is not loaded by default. I recomment using BPF, but to get it to work > you need to run the tcpdump command supplied with AIX (/usr/sbin/tcpdump) > first; it will load the BPF module for you, and you can then use the > BPF support afterwards. (You don't need to keep tcpdump running: just > run it long enough for it to load the kernel module, then kill it.) > (If you're really clever and know how to load the BPF module yourself, > then you can do it manually.) > > You forgot IRIX. SGI IRIX uses something called 'snoop' sockets. Being > based on System V it may also support DLPI. > > The libpcap library (ftp.ee.lbl.gov:/libpcap.tar.Z) works on all these > platforms and provides a common interface that will make your life much > easier than if you tried to use all these system-dependent interfaces > yourself. Libpcap is also included with FreeBSD. _UNIX Network Programming > 2nd Edition, Vol 1_ by Stevens also includes a section that describes > libpcap and gives examples on how to use it. > > -Bill > > -- > ============================================================================= > -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu > Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research > Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City > ============================================================================= > "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" > ============================================================================= > == **_____________ Have a nice day _______________** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 11:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28617 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27795 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:32:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Eileen Cohen: ;login: coverage of FREENIX track Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:32:19 -0700 Message-ID: <27792.895775539@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Any takers who'll also be at USENIX? I'm not signing up for any more writing projects right now. :) ------- Forwarded Message From: Eileen Cohen To: maddog Hall , jkh@FreeBSD.org Subject: ;login: coverage of FREENIX track Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Jordan and maddog, Ellie suggested I write to both of you to see if you might have any candidates for people who would be willing to write brief (200-500 words per presentation) summaries of the FREENIX sessions for ;login:. I've rustled up some volunteers but, now that the conference is fast approaching, could use some help finding more. Here's a list of the sessions that need writers: - -Wed.- 1. HostATM Research Platform / Dummynet and Forward Error Correction 2. Arla: Freely Available AFS Client / Portable NTFS Driver - -Thurs.- 3. Design and Implementation of a SCSI Subsystem / Multimedia Driver Support 4. ISC DHCP Distribtuion / Heimdal: I18N Free Kerberos Implementation 5. NEdit: Modern Text Editor / Weblint: Just Another Perl Hack 6. Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions - -Fri.- 7. malloc(3) Revisited / KernelSched - ZOUNDS 8. ifmail - Fidonet / Samba as WNT Domain Controller 9. K Desktop Environment / GNOME Desktop Project 10. Console Server / Linux Emulation for SCO 11. Kawa - Compiling Dynamic Languages to Java VM / Samba Futures 12. User API for Tape Drives Thanks for any help you can provide, Eileen Eileen Cohen 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215 Publications Director Berkeley, CA 94710 USENIX Association Phone: 510 528-8649 Email: cohen@usenix.org Fax: 510 548-5738 ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 12:26:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08753 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lehua.ilhawaii.net (lehua.ilhawaii.net [206.127.242.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08710 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rambo@bigisland.com) Received: from bigisland.com (pm5-16.ilhawaii.net [206.127.241.208]) by lehua.ilhawaii.net (8.8.7/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA23352 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:24:11 -1000 (HST) Message-ID: <3564803F.9D5EA6@bigisland.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:27:59 -1000 From: Randy Rambo Organization: Monty Mouflon's Papaya Paradise X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 21 May 1998 Aloha FreeBSD technical discussions mailing list folks, Please subscribe me to your list. Mahalo, Randy Rambo rambo@bigisland.com -- Randy Rambo, Internetpreneur * E-mail: rambo@bigisland.com Snail Mail: Melting Point, Inc. - Y2K Date Compliance Solutions 200 Kanoelehua Avenue, Suite 103-242, Hilo, HI 96720 Voice: 808-964-5944 * FAX: 808-964-3419 (Voice too!) Voice: 808-964-5400 * Beeper: 808-925-0719 "I Seek You" - ICQ#: 7414990 * Check Out Da Kine Web Pages: http://start.at/hotsauce * http://come.to/r_mods * http://travel.to/year2000 http://welcome.to/rambo * http://listen.to/jip To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 12:51:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14863 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14810 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28149 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <356485A5.8022EEE2@san.rr.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:51:01 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Intermediate (?) level CVS questions] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4EE672B0097C6649E5DB3280" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4EE672B0097C6649E5DB3280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No response to this on -questions after a couple days, maybe someone here can help? :) Thanks, Doug --------------4EE672B0097C6649E5DB3280 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from pop-server.san.rr.com by dt050n33.san.rr.com (fetchmail-4.3.5 POP3) for (single-drop); Tue, 19 May 1998 19:17:51 PDT Received: by mail2.san.rr.com for studded (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Tue May 19 19:17:51 1998) X-From_: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 19 16:11 PDT 1998 Received: from ns3.harborcom.net (ns3.harborcom.net [206.158.4.14]) by mail-atm.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17919 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org [204.216.27.18] by ns3.harborcom.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ybvXC-000668-00; Tue, 19 May 1998 19:11:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA29470; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Tue, 19 May 1998 15:08:37 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28635 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28546 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06137 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <356202BD.1BD5C7DA@dal.net> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:07:57 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Intermediate (?) level CVS questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, I have been using cvsup happily for about 8 months now to keep my local copies of source, doc and ports up to date. For various reasons I decided to take a stab at using a full FreeBSD CVS repository. I am familiar with the CVS basics like checking out files, making changes, committing the changes, etc. We use CVS for DALnet ircd development. However several of the specific reasons I want the full repository are giving me a massive headache. :) I've read everything I could find on CVS including the info file, www tutorials, FAQ, Handbook, quite a bit of the mail archives and of course the man pages. First question. I have successfully set up the CVS repository and used it to check out a full set of -Stable sources, however there are quite a few items that I don't build even during a make world so I would like to avoid checking them out to conserve disk space. I looked high and low for a setting that says "check out all of 'src' except the following" similar to the refuse file I use for cvsup but couldn't find it. I've basically come to the conclusion that such an option doesn't exist, which isn't the end of the world I suppose. I know I could make a script that checks out the individual elements that I want (in fact I did that for ports) but it would be more work than I want to keep that up to date for the src tree, and work is what I'm trying to avoid with CVS. :) Related to the first question, I have customized a lot of stuff in my make world setup. Almost all of these changes are related to parts of the system that I don't build, so we're essentially talking about a lot of modified makefiles, and a few things related to long usernames. What I'd like to do is set up a branch that has all of my stuff on it so when I check out the src tree I can merge my branch into the main branch. I am familiar with creating branches, however I ran into two problems. First, I edited one of the makefiles, tagged it, then tried 'cvs commit -r MYBRANCH Makefile'. I got an error message asking me to commit on freefall instead which I'm sure no one would want me to do even if I could. :) However I think this point is moot because I figured that every time I cvsup'ed the cvs tree it would delete my changes, and I was correct in that when I tested. What I suspect is that I need to create a whole new directory under /home/ncvs for things like this, but I'm befuddled on exactly how to do that from things checked out to /usr/src. I'd also like to do something similar here with things like CAM. This is one area where I could use some specific, detailed help or pointers to the same. :-/ The next problem I'm having is using the rdiff command. One of the main reasons I want the full CVS repository on hand is to take a look at the changes between 2.2.5 and 2.2.6 and see if I can find the cause of some performance problems one of my customers is having since the upgrade. When I do: cvs rdiff -kk -r RELENG_2_2 -r HEAD src I get a nice fat diff file and all kinds of little updates on the screen telling me where cvs is diff'ing. However when I do: cvs rdiff -kk -r RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE -r RELENG_2_2_6_RELEASE src I get bupkis. Nothing but a grinding disk and no output at all. I've double checked the tag names but still can't figure out where I'm going wrong. I'm sure that these will seem simplistic questions to the CVS veterans, however it would be a big help to me to get them answered. :) Thanks, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message --------------4EE672B0097C6649E5DB3280-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 13:24:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21256 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21118 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0.Beta7/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id WAA27419; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:23:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id WAA16633; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:20:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980521222005.A16589@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:20:05 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Peter Dufault , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Talking UDP at a given port? Mail-Followup-To: Peter Dufault , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199805211655.MAA13751@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199805211655.MAA13751@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Thu, May 21, 1998 at 12:55:03PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4308 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Peter Dufault: > I just got a device that talks ASCII at a UDP port. What > is the way to initially poke at this think without writing a > program? I can write one but figure I should know this. Maybe with netcat (in ports), it has a UDP mode: connect to somewhere: nc [-options] hostname port[s] [ports] ... listen for inbound: nc -l -p port [-options] [hostname] [port] options: -g gateway source-routing hop point[s], up to 8 -G num source-routing pointer: 4, 8, 12, ... -h this cruft -i secs delay interval for lines sent, ports scanned -l listen mode, for inbound connects -n numeric-only IP addresses, no DNS -o file hex dump of traffic -p port local port number -r randomize local and remote ports -s addr local source address -u UDP mode -v verbose [use twice to be more verbose] -w secs timeout for connects and final net reads -z zero-I/O mode [used for scanning] port numbers can be individual or ranges: lo-hi [inclusive] -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 13:53:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25428 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25382 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:52:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03577; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:52:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Peter Dufault cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Talking UDP at a given port? In-Reply-To: <199805211655.MAA13751@hda.hda.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Install netcat from the ports collection and run nc -u hostname port On Thu, 21 May 1998, Peter Dufault wrote: > I'll show my networking ignorance: > > I just got a device that talks ASCII at a UDP port. What > is the way to initially poke at this think without writing a > program? I can write one but figure I should know this. > > This is a Keithley SmartLink - a small 68K family based data acq > device you can hang on an ethernet. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 14:03:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA27426 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:03:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA14689; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:16 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199805211920.VAA14689@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Eileen Cohen: ;login: coverage of FREENIX track To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <27792.895775539@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 21, 98 11:32:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Any takers who'll also be at USENIX? I'm not signing up for any > more writing projects right now. :) speaking of usenix, are you or WC organizing some FreeBSD social event :) cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 14:17:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00522 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00443 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:16:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00904; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eileen Cohen: ;login: coverage of FREENIX track In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:16 +0200." <199805211920.VAA14689@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:16:07 -0700 Message-ID: <900.895785367@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I hadn't planned on it, no. Did you have some specific ideas? > > Any takers who'll also be at USENIX? I'm not signing up for any > > more writing projects right now. :) > > speaking of usenix, are you or WC organizing some FreeBSD social event :) > > cheers > luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 14:48:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07598 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com [199.94.215.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07488 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:48:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moncrg@am026091.res.ray.com) Received: from gatekeeper.ray.com (gatekeeper.ray.com [138.125.162.1]) by cam-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10361 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (mailer@localhost) by gatekeeper.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05892 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:27:13 -0400 Received: from am026091.res.ray.com/138.125.142.48() by gatekeeper.ray.com id sma.895785158.002567; Thu May 21 17:12:38 1998 Received: (from moncrg@localhost) by am026091.res.ray.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29017 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:06:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from moncrg) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:06:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory D. Moncreaff" Message-Id: <199805212206.RAA29017@am026091.res.ray.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: limits && /etc/login.conf Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to write a program that deals with a couple of thousand descriptors and I'm confused about how limits is reporting what should be derived from login.conf. Trying a both a "default" and "root" class user, I've set openfiles-cur/max to 1024 but when I type `limit` or `limits` it reports 360 as the openfiles limits. When I grep for `openfiles` in /etc/login.conf I find no occurences of 360. Where did it come from? How/should get/setrlimit work? when I call getrlimit it reports a max of 360 and cur of 0? thanx, -g To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 17:31:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10679 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10527 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA00707; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:57:16 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980522095715.R27201@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:57:15 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jamie Bowden , Peter Jeremy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel vs the rest (was `Original PC' and `talk') References: <199805202156.HAA15942@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Bowden on Thu, May 21, 1998 at 08:36:38AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998 at 8:36:38 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Thu, 21 May 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >> As an example of the impact of an architectural decision on >> complexity: The 68k included a clear split between (non-modifiable) >> instructions and (modifiable) data, the x86 didn't (and early >> applications often used self-modifying code). This means that the x86 >> needs a unified cache, whilst the 68k uses a split cache - which gives >> it two immediate advantages: The I-cache is also somewhat simpler (no >> need for dirty bits or the write-{through,back} logic), allowing more >> of it for the same complexity. Dual caches allow parallel I and D >> accesses - ie effectively doubling the cache <-> CPU bandwidth (dual- >> porting the cache can be done, but entails a substantial increase in >> complexity). (The downside is that a unified cache will adjust to >> different code vs data footprints - giving somewhat better hit rates >> for a given total cache size). > > I have both. > > Data cache size: 16 Kbytes > Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes > Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 512 Kbytes on Processor 0 > > All hail high end workstation makers. This is the SGI on my desk, lowly > Indy that it is. And how large is the TLB? And the page size? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 17:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13131 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12935 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05440; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805212336.QAA05440@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "L.C." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 11:06:13 PDT." <19980521180613.19279.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Many thanks to all the knowledgeable people for the valuable > information. I will read the book you mentioned, try the methods you > suggested and do more research on these. > > Ever developed the drivers about two years ago to intercept the > packages in the link layer(NDIS in Windows...) and just finished a > project to intercept the data stream in the socket level(LSP in > WinSock2)I need to port all these Windows codes to possible UNIX > platforms. I've done some UNIX programming in both kernel and > application levels before but never played BPF or DLPI rationales. I > do have further questions: > > 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan > mentioned available in somewhere? ipfilter is Darren Reed's in-kernel firewall product. divert(4) is a FreeBSD-native feature. It is not, to the best of my knowledge, emulated by anything else. > 2. So, there is no any way, tool, or utility can intercept the data > flowing in the socket level(like LSP in WinSock2)? Any plan about this? Under FreeBSD, divert(4) is your friend. Others have made suggestions for other systems. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14941 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14791 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id RAA15095 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199805220048.RAA15095@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Probing a PCI device!! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, I am trying to probe a PCI device and I am in the odd situation where the firmware has to be downloaded onto the card before I can check the Vendor/Device ID. It is set by the firmware.. How do I solve the chicken and egg problem? Or am I missing something? Thanks Vinay PS: I am not subscribed to the mailing list, could you also CC me!! -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com >>> Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional <<< To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:15:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20276 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA20242 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05779; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220009.RAA05779@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Jamie Bowden , Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel vs the rest (was `Original PC' and `talk') In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 09:57:15 +0930." <19980522095715.R27201@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:09:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> complexity). (The downside is that a unified cache will adjust to > >> different code vs data footprints - giving somewhat better hit rates > >> for a given total cache size). > > > > I have both. > > > > Data cache size: 16 Kbytes > > Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes > > Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 512 Kbytes on Processor 0 > > > > All hail high end workstation makers. This is the SGI on my desk, lowly > > Indy that it is. > > And how large is the TLB? And the page size? Now, now, Greg. Everyone knows it's better to handle the TLB in software. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21112 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21086 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA26775; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220107.SAA26775@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Mike Smith Cc: "L.C." , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:07:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 Mike Smith wrote: > > 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan > > mentioned available in somewhere? > > ipfilter is Darren Reed's in-kernel firewall product. > > divert(4) is a FreeBSD-native feature. It is not, to the best of my > knowledge, emulated by anything else. Uh... doens't IP Filter implement a divert(4)-like feature? Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21535 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21505 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA27009; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220109.SAA27009@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Vinay Bannai Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Probing a PCI device!! Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:09:19 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Vinay Bannai wrote: > I am trying to probe a PCI device and I am in the odd situation where the > firmware has to be downloaded onto the card before I can check the > Vendor/Device ID. It is set by the firmware.. > > How do I solve the chicken and egg problem? Or am I missing something? Yow. What device is this?! Seems.... rather braindead. _Something_ has to be there, or else how does the system console firmware (in the PC world, the BIOS) know to configure the card's mapping registers and route its interrupt? Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 428 6939 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21601 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21541 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05820; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220016.RAA05820@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Vinay Bannai cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Probing a PCI device!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 17:48:32 PDT." <199805220048.RAA15095@shell6.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:16:54 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi folks, > > I am trying to probe a PCI device and I am in the odd situation where the > firmware has to be downloaded onto the card before I can check the > Vendor/Device ID. It is set by the firmware.. > > How do I solve the chicken and egg problem? Or am I missing something? It's possible that the card is using a generic PCI bridge chip - have a look at the card and see. If this is the case, you could try matching against the interface vendor/model rather than the device set if the device set is invalid. Do the device IDs default to anything sensible? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 18:50:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA26498 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA25616; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:49:46 -0400 From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9805212149.ZM25614@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:49:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: Jason Thorpe "Re: Questions about Packet Filter" (May 21, 6:07pm) References: <199805220107.SAA26775@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Jason Thorpe , Mike Smith Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter Cc: "L.C." , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 21, 6:07pm, Jason Thorpe (possibly) wrote: > On Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan > > > mentioned available in somewhere? > > > > ipfilter is Darren Reed's in-kernel firewall product. > > > > divert(4) is a FreeBSD-native feature. It is not, to the best of my > > knowledge, emulated by anything else. > > Uh... doens't IP Filter implement a divert(4)-like feature? > Yes... indeed, it's a considerably better one than divert(4) for many purposes. It's a major reason we're going with it instead of ipfw for a FreeBSD firewall computer. -Allen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 19:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01621 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01579 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA01224; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:43:05 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980522114305.Z27201@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:43:05 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: SMP resource locking Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I haven't paid much attention to SMP problems yet, but I need to now. Can somebody point me to functions to ensure single-thread passing of critical sections? In a UP environment I'd use splhigh (), but that's obviously not enough for SMP. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 19:21:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03473 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03457 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:21:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id TAA28154; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:20:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199805220220.TAA28154@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: Probing a PCI device!! In-Reply-To: <199805220016.RAA05820@antipodes.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "May 21, 98 05:16:54 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bannai@best.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Mike Smith: > > Hi folks, > > > > I am trying to probe a PCI device and I am in the odd situation where the > > firmware has to be downloaded onto the card before I can check the > > Vendor/Device ID. It is set by the firmware.. > > > > How do I solve the chicken and egg problem? Or am I missing something? > > It's possible that the card is using a generic PCI bridge chip - have a > look at the card and see. If this is the case, you could try matching > against the interface vendor/model rather than the device set if the > device set is invalid. > > Do the device IDs default to anything sensible? > Oops!! Just found that the bootstrap routine on the card sets the configuration registers. This happens as soon as the system is switched on. After this I download the firwmare. Sorry about that!! Should have checked the specs more clearly before posting. Thanks Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com >>> Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional <<< To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 19:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.home (root@dt02q0n04.nycap.rr.com [204.210.172.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07016 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com) Received: from mail.nycap.rr.com (dec@localhost.phoenix.home [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by phoenix.home (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00600 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:39:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com) Message-ID: <3564E579.21D42291@mail.nycap.rr.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:39:53 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problem resolutions... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, I have mostly resolved both of my previous problems; the first one was an issue with the kernel build bombing out on 'isa_devtab_cam[]", this was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel first, then make world because I remeber some problems other people have reported doing the reverse order). The second problem was regarding the wcd1 device not being discovered. I resolved this by switching master and slave on the cdrom, however, I still get the following error when accessing the aformentioned CDROM: wcd1: i/o error, status=51, error=30 and the following are the related dmesg lines related to the type of the drive: wdc1: unit 0 (atapi): , removable, intr, iordis wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, dma, iordy [unit 1 is the misbehaving device] Any ideas on this? (config file is identical as before) -- David Cross IMS UNIX Support GE Corportate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 20:02:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11081 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11064; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23289; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:09:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980521230948.A23199@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:09:48 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all.. I have a few questions about large web servers. I've run a few relatively large web sites on freebsd in the past, but none that put out more than 300-400,000 objects per day (html+gif..). I've been looking at a Solaris machine today that's putting out about 2 million pages a day. The somewhat odd thing is the extraordinary number of sockets left open in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2. I roughly understand what they mean, but we're talking about 3000 entries here (about 400-500 of which are FIN_WAIT_2, the rest are TIME_WAIT).. So I have ~3000 sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. Is this normal?? It doesn't seem like it to me. If not, what would be causing it, and what should I look at tuning on the Slowaris box?? TIA for any ideas! All I know is that I just don't trust sockets on Solaris... :-) -Mark -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 20:11:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12302 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adam.adonai.net (adam.adonai.net [207.8.83.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12267 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leec@adam.adonai.net) Received: from localhost (leec@localhost) by adam.adonai.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02170 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:10:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:10:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Lee Crites (AEI)" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: parallel port zip drive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone been able to get the parallel port version of the zip drive working? I don't care if it was *fast*, only reliable. One additional slop to add to the soup -- I'm running with scsi devices already, so the "standard" instructions from ppa don't work. Barring the above, has anyone taken over keeping the parallel zip drive port working? I haven't been able to get the author to respond. Thanks muchly... Lee =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lee Crites www.adonai.net/~leec Tandem/Compaq (Austin) Adonai Services Company phone: 512-432-7112 phone: 512-789-7853 leec@austx.tandem.com leec@adonai.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 20:48:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17388 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17349 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:47:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06522; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220243.TAA06522@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Lee Crites (AEI)" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: parallel port zip drive In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 22:10:55 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:43:48 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Has anyone been able to get the parallel port version of the zip > drive working? I don't care if it was *fast*, only reliable. > One additional slop to add to the soup -- I'm running with scsi > devices already, so the "standard" instructions from ppa don't > work. There is no conflict with other SCSI devices; the ppa driver is just another SCSI adapter as far as that's concerned. > Barring the above, has anyone taken over keeping the parallel > zip drive port working? I haven't been able to get the author to > respond. The ppa driver is not being developed any further. It works quite well, but it is obsoleted by the ppbus-based vpo driver in -current. vpo drives both the old Parallel port Zip as well as the Jaz Traveller; ppa also works with these. The new Zip Plus is only supported in SCSI mode at the moment, although parallel support is under devlopment. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 21:03:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20220 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles145.castles.com [208.214.165.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20165; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06672; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220259.TAA06672@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Mayo cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 23:09:48 EDT." <19980521230948.A23199@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:59:06 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi all.. I have a few questions about large web servers. I've run a > few relatively large web sites on freebsd in the past, but none that > put out more than 300-400,000 objects per day (html+gif..). I've been > looking at a Solaris machine today that's putting out about 2 million > pages a day. The somewhat odd thing is the extraordinary number of > sockets left open in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2. I roughly understand > what they mean, but we're talking about 3000 entries here (about 400-500 > of which are FIN_WAIT_2, the rest are TIME_WAIT).. So I have ~3000 > sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. > > Is this normal?? It doesn't seem like it to me. If not, what would be > causing it, and what should I look at tuning on the Slowaris box?? You might be able to tune down the closing delay, but in reality I can't see it as a "real" problem unless the number is growing or you are resource-starved because of it. Of course, the "correct" tuning action would be to replace Solaris with FreeBSD. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 21:38:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28014; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28329; Thu, 21 May 1998 21:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805220437.VAA28329@implode.root.com> To: Mark Mayo cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 23:09:48 EDT." <19980521230948.A23199@vmunix.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:37:44 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Hi all.. I have a few questions about large web servers. I've run a >few relatively large web sites on freebsd in the past, but none that >put out more than 300-400,000 objects per day (html+gif..). I've been >looking at a Solaris machine today that's putting out about 2 million >pages a day. The somewhat odd thing is the extraordinary number of >sockets left open in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2. I roughly understand >what they mean, but we're talking about 3000 entries here (about 400-500 >of which are FIN_WAIT_2, the rest are TIME_WAIT).. So I have ~3000 >sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. > >Is this normal?? It doesn't seem like it to me. If not, what would be >causing it, and what should I look at tuning on the Slowaris box?? > >TIA for any ideas! All I know is that I just don't trust sockets on >Solaris... :-) It's normal and required by the TCP specification. FreeBSD will do the same thing in the this situation. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 22:01:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA02193 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02187 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02725; Fri, 22 May 1998 00:01:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199805220501.AAA02725@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: SMP resource locking In-Reply-To: <19980522114305.Z27201@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 22, 98 11:43:05 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:01:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey said: > I haven't paid much attention to SMP problems yet, but I need to now. > Can somebody point me to functions to ensure single-thread passing of > critical sections? In a UP environment I'd use splhigh (), but that's > obviously not enough for SMP. > For now, splhigh in a normal driver context will work. That is of course broken, but it will work fine. In the future, it won't. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 22:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04188 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaka.3skel.com (aaka.3skel.com [207.240.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04091 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danj@3skel.com) Received: from fnur.3skel.com (fnur.3skel.com [192.168.0.8]) by aaka.3skel.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA14789; Fri, 22 May 1998 01:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 3skel.com (localhost.3skel.com [127.0.0.1]) by fnur.3skel.com (8.8.8/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA17218; Fri, 22 May 1998 01:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35650991.A287C82F@3skel.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:13:53 -0400 From: Dan Janowski Organization: Triskelion Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicholas Charles Brawn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd vs linux (nfs) (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In regards to the lock manager (rpc.lockd), isn't it, for lack of a better expression, pseudo-locking? Dan Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote: > I was pleased to see the ratings that freebsd received on this. > > Nick > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:41:58 -0500 (CDT) > From: tip > To: dc-stuff@dis.org > Subject: freebsd vs linux (nfs) > > >from unix review's "performance computing" magazine, june 1998, > pages 21-28, > > comparisons are on nt products vs various flavors of unix. > > for simplicity's sake, linux, bsdi, and freebsd are only mentioned here > for comparison of bsd vs linux: > > NFS PROTOCOL SUPPORT > -------------------- > nfs v.2 nfs v.3 webnfs > udp tcp udp tcp > bsdi x x x x > freebsd x x x x x > linux x > > SUPPORT FOR ANCILLARY NFS PROTOCOLS > ----------------------------------- > RPC PORTMAPPER MOUNT PROTOCOL NETWORK LOCK MGR STATUS > Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP UDP TCP > v2 v3 v4 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v1 > bsdi x x x x x x > freebsd x x x x x x x x x x x > linux x x x x > > again, i like both freebsd and linux, i'm slightly biased towards freebsd, > just because of its superior networking and security over linux. > > thanx, > - tip > -- danj@3skel.com Dan Janowski Triskelion Systems, Inc. Bronx, NY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 22:15:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from eosnts2.ecc.tased.edu.au (eosnts2.ecc.tased.edu.au [147.41.64.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA04391; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Joe.Shevland@Central.tased.edu.au) Received: by eosnts2.ecc.tased.edu.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BD8594.5508B550@eosnts2.ecc.tased.edu.au>; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:14:36 +1000 Message-ID: From: "Shevland, Joe" To: "'Mark Mayo'" Cc: "'isp@freebsd.org'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:14:34 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Scuse any ignorance on these matters, but are the following true statements? (just curious): i) Sockets in a TIME_WAIT state do not have a (an open?) file descriptor associated with them ii) Sockets waiting for a FIN segment or in the FIN_WAIT_2 state do. >> [trimmed] So I have ~3000 >> sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. >> >> Is this normal?? It doesn't seem like it to me. If not, what would be >> causing it, and what should I look at tuning on the Slowaris box?? > >You might be able to tune down the closing delay, but in reality I >can't see it as a "real" problem unless the number is growing or you >are resource-starved because of it. > >Of course, the "correct" tuning action would be to replace Solaris with >FreeBSD. > >-- >\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith >\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au >\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 22:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08828 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08812 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03153; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:41:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 May 1998 22:39:53 EDT." <3564E579.21D42291@mail.nycap.rr.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:41:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3150.895815705@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel > first, then make world because Just FYI, that's never been the correct order at any point in time, no matter what others may have said. It is exactly backwards. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 23:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from highwind.com (hurricane.highwind.com [209.61.45.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14621 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@highwind.com) Received: (from info@localhost) by highwind.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA05884; Fri, 22 May 1998 02:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805220609.CAA05884@highwind.com> From: HighWind Software Information To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: support@highwind.com Subject: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We here at HighWind are trying to port some threaded apps to FreeBSD-stable (2.2.6). Things seem to be going well, EXCEPT, we believe we found a BUG: When using pthreads (with libc_r), sometimes BLOCKING calls to write() down a connected TCP file descriptor are returning partial writes: .... ssize_t byte_count = 0; while ((byte_count = write(fd, data, bytes_to_write)) != bytes_to_write) { if (errno != EINTR && errno != EAGAIN) { if (errno != EPIPE) { // Use the HighWind "syslog" class Syslog::syslog(LOG_ERR, "Error write() of Vector Data %d/%d (%m)", byte_count, bytes_to_write); } return false; } } .... This is syslog'ing (sometimes): May 22 01:57:57 zonda typhoond[1988]: Error write() of Vector Data 2292/4096 (Undefined error: 0) Clearly, this shows the "write()" returning with less data written then was requested. This is a write() on a descriptor marked BLOCKING. It should either return "bytes_to_write" or an error. It should NEVER return less than "bytes_to_write". Please note, the "while()" loop above is strictly to handle EINTR and EAGAIN. It should NOT have to handle partial write's since this is a blocking write! My understanding is that the libc_r makes the fd "non-blocking" and does a non-blocking write under the covers. However, that should not matter. Outside the library, that write() call should be a BLOCKING write. I suspect (I'm guessing) that libc_r either forgets to remark the fd blocking, or it simply doesn't loop on a partial write when it does its non-blocking write. I don't know. We'd be happy to provide more details. This is VERY VERY bad bug for us!! We'd appreciate any help as we have a strong desire to see our products on FreeBSD. Rob Fleischman HighWind Software rmf@highwind.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 23:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17296; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24765; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd024739; Thu May 21 23:23:02 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA11218; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:23:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805220623.XAA11218@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... To: mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:23:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980521230948.A23199@vmunix.com> from "Mark Mayo" at May 21, 98 11:09:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The somewhat odd thing is the extraordinary number of > sockets left open in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2. I roughly understand > what they mean, but we're talking about 3000 entries here (about 400-500 > of which are FIN_WAIT_2, the rest are TIME_WAIT).. So I have ~3000 > sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. > > Is this normal?? It doesn't seem like it to me. If not, what would be > causing it, and what should I look at tuning on the Slowaris box?? This is a client bug, specifically with Windows WinSock clients, which do not call "shutdown(2)" in the following way: shutdown( s, 1); The '1' should be a '2', but many WinSock implementations fail to work correctly if it isn't a '1'. You should talk to Paul Vixie about this. The fix is to be bug-compatible with Windows NT as a server, and to, when you are in FIN_WAIT_2 state, back up to resend the FIN. The problem is the lack of an ACK needed for a state transition in the Windows TCP/IP implemenetation. The root cause is badly written client code that assumes that the system does resource tracking of sockets, such that when the client program exits, a resource-track cleanup occurs, and sockets are shut down correctly. Alternately, you could blame it on Microsoft for writing an OS that doesn't do resource tracking. But you could blame Apple for the same thing. In any case, Paul has hacked NetBSD to do the right thing. I've played with hacks to FreeBSD for the same thing. Basically, it times out and backs up, rememebring that it backed up, and if it gets an abort when the FIN is resent (ie: the machine has rebooted or the host is unreachable because it has disconnected from it's ISP), it needs to rush forward to completion. Obviously, it would have to be controlled via sysctl(2), since it violates the RFC's all to hell. This is a standard Windows "Denial of service to non-Windows OS's" attack. 8-|. FreeBSD pretends it has solved the problem with a timeout (Solaris has a similar "fix"), but the latency is too high. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 21 23:44:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21646 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21623 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 23:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA07025; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:49:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199805220649.QAA07025@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug In-Reply-To: <199805220609.CAA05884@highwind.com> from HighWind Software Information at "May 22, 98 02:09:47 am" To: info@highwind.com (HighWind Software Information) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:49:18 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@highwind.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG HighWind Software Information wrote: > This is syslog'ing (sometimes): > > May 22 01:57:57 zonda typhoond[1988]: Error write() of Vector Data 2292/4096 (Undefined error: 0) Is the code being compiled with -D_THREAD_SAFE ? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 03:46:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26382 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 03:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.home (root@dt02q0n04.nycap.rr.com [204.210.172.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26363 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 03:46:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com) Received: from mail.nycap.rr.com (dec@localhost.phoenix.home [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by phoenix.home (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA01634; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:45:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com) Message-ID: <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:45:23 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <3150.895815705@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel > > first, then make world because > > Just FYI, that's never been the correct order at any point in time, no > matter what others may have said. It is exactly backwards. > > - Jordan Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer Scientist), but I need this explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? -- David Cross IMS UNIX Support GE Corporate R&D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 04:09:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA00224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA00211 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:09:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09475; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:09:40 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA28871; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:09:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522130933.09755@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:09:33 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "David E. Cross" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <3150.895815705@time.cdrom.com> <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com>; from David E. Cross on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 06:45:23AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 06:45:23AM -0400, David E. Cross wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel > > > first, then make world because > > > > Just FYI, that's never been the correct order at any point in time, no > > matter what others may have said. It is exactly backwards. > > > > - Jordan > > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > Scientist), but I need this > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? First 'make world', then kernel. Almost always true. (There may be specific cases where you should get away from the kernel because it eats filesystems or something...) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 05:32:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11328 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA11276; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:32:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25061; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:40:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980522084000.A25049@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:40:00 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: dg@root.com Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... References: <19980521230948.A23199@vmunix.com> <199805220437.VAA28329@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 In-Reply-To: <199805220437.VAA28329@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Thu, May 21, 1998 at 09:37:44PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 21, 1998 at 09:37:44PM -0700, David Greenman wrote: > >pages a day. The somewhat odd thing is the extraordinary number of > >sockets left open in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2. I roughly understand > >what they mean, but we're talking about 3000 entries here (about 400-500 > >of which are FIN_WAIT_2, the rest are TIME_WAIT).. So I have ~3000 > >sockets in TIME_WAIT/FIN and only about 100 ESTABLISHED. > > > > It's normal and required by the TCP specification. FreeBSD will do the > same thing in the this situation. Okay. Good to hear. I've never personally seen a FreeBSD machine with such a high WAIT/ESTAB ratio, so I was curious is this was normal under high web traffic. :-) -Mark > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 05:35:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11941 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from highwind.com (hurricane.highwind.com [209.61.45.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA11919 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@highwind.com) Received: (from info@localhost) by highwind.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id IAA08870; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805221234.IAA08870@highwind.com> From: HighWind Software Information To: jb@cimlogic.com.au CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@highwind.com In-reply-to: <199805220649.QAA07025@cimlogic.com.au> (message from John Birrell on Fri, 22 May 1998 16:49:18 +1000 (EST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Is the code being compiled with -D_THREAD_SAFE ? Yep. Everything everytime. "-D_THREAD_SAFE" and "-D_REENTRANT" (Although -D_REENTRANT probably does nothing. It is important on other O/S's. So, we left it in.) Also, linking with "-lc_r" -Rob rmf@highwind.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 07:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26167 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-39.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26151 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29171; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "David E. Cross" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-Reply-To: <3564E579.21D42291@mail.nycap.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 21 May 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > Ok, I have mostly resolved both of my previous problems; > > the first one was an issue with the kernel build bombing out on > 'isa_devtab_cam[]", this > was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel > first, then make world because > I remeber some problems other people have reported doing the reverse > order). You needed to rebuild config first. It's in /usr/src/usr.sbin/config. - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 08:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03676 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2 (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA03653 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:02:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13753 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:02:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:02:22 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: How MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP is used? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, friends: I am reading VM source code concerning the vm_map_entry structure. There is a flag called MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP used widely, but I search all the codes in VM and can not find where this flag gets set into the eflags field of the vm_map_entry structure. By the way, MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_SUB_MAP is set in vm_map_submap( ). It is often used together with MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP. I hope someone can give me a hint on this. Thanks a lot. ------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang Department of Computer Science State University of New York at Binghamton Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang ------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 09:32:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18720 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc4.wcc.net (wcc4.wcc.net [208.6.232.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18396 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (83.camalott.com [208.203.140.83]) by wcc4.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17127; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22234; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:31:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:31:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805221631.LAA22234@detlev.UUCP> To: eivind@yes.no CC: dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dcross1@mail-atm.nycap.rr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980522130933.09755@follo.net> (message from Eivind Eklund on Fri, 22 May 1998 13:09:33 +0200) Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <3150.895815705@time.cdrom.com> <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> <19980522130933.09755@follo.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>> was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel >>>> first, then make world because >>> Just FYI, that's never been the correct order at any point in time, no >>> matter what others may have said. It is exactly backwards. >> Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer >> Scientist), but I need this >> explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > First 'make world', then kernel. Almost always true. (There may be > specific cases where you should get away from the kernel because it eats > filesystems or something...) Why is that? I would expect some execs to depend on kernel features, not vice versa. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 09:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20700; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01914; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:43:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199805221643.JAA01914@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: mark@vmunix.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) asks about large numbers of TCP connections in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2 states on a busy Web server. Terry Lambert responds: > This is a client bug, specifically with Windows WinSock clients, which > do not call "shutdown(2)" in the following way: > > shutdown( s, 1); > > The '1' should be a '2', but many WinSock implementations fail to work > correctly if it isn't a '1'. > > [...] > > The fix is to be bug-compatible with Windows NT as a server, and to, > when you are in FIN_WAIT_2 state, back up to resend the FIN. > > The problem is the lack of an ACK needed for a state transition in > the Windows TCP/IP implemenetation. Terry, I think you have your TCP states mixed up. First, none of this applies to the TIME_WAIT connections. As for the FIN_WAIT_2 connections: FIN_WAIT_2 means, "I'm done sending, I've sent a FIN, the other side has ACKed my FIN, but the other side has not sent *me* a FIN to indicate that it is done sending." One would then expect the peer to be in CLOSE_WAIT state. This is a perfectly legal state that can persist indefinitely, with the CLOSE_WAIT end sending unbounded amounts of data to the FIN_WAIT_2 end for consumption. Why on earth would you "back up to resend [a] FIN" that has already been ACKed? I suspect what you really mean is that the client side never sends its FIN, even though it's really done sending, leaving the server-side hanging in FIN_WAIT_2 state, waiting for either more data or a close from the client, while the client wll never bother to send either.. This can happen due to application-layer or TCP-layer bugs on the client side, or because the client crashed or was powered off at an inopportune time. What BSD-based TCP stacks do is this: if the FIN_WAIT_2 socket has been closed by the application (i.e., there's no-one there to receive any data that might arrive), and no data arrives for about 11 minutes, then the connection is silently dropped. (Remember, if the FIN_WAIT_2 socket has not been closed, then data could arrive after an arbitrarily long silence, and there's a process there to read that data; so the connection *must not* be dropped.) So what you're really seeing, Mark, is connections in FIN_WAIT_2 state, where the web server has closed the socket, but the client has never indicated that it is done sending. These hang around for about 11 minutes, then disappear. (Of course, more take their place.) The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 10:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00174 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00154 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25715; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:22:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA01032; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:22:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522192215.41330@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:22:15 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: joelh@gnu.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <3150.895815705@time.cdrom.com> <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> <19980522130933.09755@follo.net> <199805221631.LAA22234@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805221631.LAA22234@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:31:00AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:31:00AM -0500, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > > First 'make world', then kernel. Almost always true. (There may be > > specific cases where you should get away from the kernel because it eats > > filesystems or something...) > > Why is that? I would expect some execs to depend on kernel features, > not vice versa. Kernel is dependent on 'config', and sometimes mount etc (has happened a couple of times.) It is cheaper to maintain compatibility in userspace than in the kernel, thus that is where we put the compatibility layer. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 10:47:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05675 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05663; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26223; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:54:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980522135455.A26169@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:54:55 -0400 From: Mark Mayo To: Jim Shankland , tlambert@primenet.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... References: <199805221643.JAA01914@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 In-Reply-To: <199805221643.JAA01914@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com>; from Jim Shankland on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 09:43:04AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 09:43:04AM -0700, Jim Shankland wrote: > [mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) asks about large numbers of TCP connections > in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2 states on a busy Web server. [in resonse to Terry's post, Jim writes:] > I suspect what you really mean is that the client side never sends its > FIN, even though it's really done sending, leaving the server-side > hanging in FIN_WAIT_2 state, waiting for either more data or a close > from the client, while the client wll never bother to send either.. > This can happen due to application-layer or TCP-layer bugs on the > client side, or because the client crashed or was powered off at an > inopportune time. Or IE 3.01 which just never sends it's FIN under "normal" conditions.. :-) > What BSD-based TCP stacks do is this: if the FIN_WAIT_2 socket has > been closed by the application (i.e., there's no-one there to receive > any data that might arrive), and no data arrives for about 11 minutes, > then the connection is silently dropped. (Remember, if the FIN_WAIT_2 > socket has not been closed, then data could arrive after an arbitrarily > long silence, and there's a process there to read that data; so the > connection *must not* be dropped.) > > So what you're really seeing, Mark, is connections in FIN_WAIT_2 state, > where the web server has closed the socket, but the client has never > indicated that it is done sending. These hang around for about 11 > minutes, then disappear. (Of course, more take their place.) Thanks. I read rfc793.txt which gives the definition. That combined with a review of the Steven's book about TCP closing handshakes brought me to the same conclusions. Very well stated though! Thanks for a super readable explantion. :-) > > The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just > slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the > client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes > is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops > to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some > unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on > this? I'm thinking that setting it to 2MSL, like TIME_WAIT might be okay, and still relatively conservative. 4 minutes is not bad, and on a machine dedicated strictly to http shouldn't have any adverse affects. Anyone else have experience tweaking things like this to squeeze out extra http performance (apache BTW)?? I still think the ratio of TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT to ESTABLISHED is high, but apparently that's normal. Like I said, under previous machines I've seen doing fewer transfers, it wasn't nearly as bad.. Although I might not be able to do anything about it, it still irks me. 8-) -Mark > > Jim Shankland > Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 11:18:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11920 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11882 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA12011; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd012007; Fri May 22 18:17:55 1998 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Dan Janowski cc: Nicholas Charles Brawn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd vs linux (nfs) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <35650991.A287C82F@3skel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I may be dreaming but.. On Fri, 22 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP UDP TCP > > v2 v3 v4 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v1 > > bsdi x x x x x x > > freebsd x x x x x x x x x x x > > linux x x x x > > either there have been commits I didn't see or I've greatly misunderstood something. I think the freebsd and linux rows have been swapped. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 11:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.213.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15688 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0ycwFH-0005Hp-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:08:43 -0700 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:08:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: eivind@yes.no, dcross1@mail.nycap.rr.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dcross1@mail-atm.nycap.rr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-Reply-To: <199805221631.LAA22234@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >>>> was fixed by doing a make world first (I normally build the kernel > >>>> first, then make world because > >>> Just FYI, that's never been the correct order at any point in time, no > >>> matter what others may have said. It is exactly backwards. > >> Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > >> Scientist), but I need this > >> explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > > First 'make world', then kernel. Almost always true. (There may be > > specific cases where you should get away from the kernel because it eats > > filesystems or something...) > > Why is that? I would expect some execs to depend on kernel features, > not vice versa. Because many of those execs are not needed during normal operation. For example, if the ifconfig kernel interface is changed. If you install the kernel first, you won't be able to config your network interfaces on boot. If you do a "make world" first, then install the kernel, then reboot, chances are you won't even notice. > Happy hacking, > joelh Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 11:45:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16698 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05437; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "David E. Cross" cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 06:45:23 EDT." <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:48 -0700 Message-ID: <5434.895862748@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > Scientist), but I need this > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? 1. Cvsup/CTM/whatever your sources up to date. 2. make world 3. make kernel 4. reboot - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 11:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16806 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.true.net (s1.admin.true.net [161.196.66.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16714; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from fwb-1.true.net (fwb-1.true.net [200.11.129.3]) by postman.true.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA09684; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:44:58 -0400 (VET) Received: from lem.cantv.net (root@localhost) by fwb-1.true.net (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA14530; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:44:56 -0400 (VET) X-BlackMail: ws-7.chacao-1.cantv.net, lem.cantv.net, lem@cantv.net, 200.44.44.23 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 14:44:57(VET) on May 22, 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980522144033.00827400@pop.cantv.net> X-Sender: lem@pop.cantv.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:40:33 -0400 To: Jim Shankland From: Luis Munoz Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: mark@vmunix.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805221643.JAA01914@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:43 AM 22/05/1998 -0700, Jim Shankland wrote: [snip] >The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just >slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the >client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes >is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops >to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some >unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on >this? IMHO, this should be configurable by a sysctl object. Those sockets are tying resources on the server and as someone else has told, most of them come from buggy client implementations, so they deserve the RST anyway :) -lem To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 12:03:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freya.circle.net (freya.circle.net [209.95.95.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20926; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcobb@staff.circle.net) Received: by freya.circle.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:52:07 -0400 Message-ID: <509A2986E5C5D111B7DD0060082F32A402FA60@freya.circle.net> From: tcobb To: "'Jim Shankland'" , mark@vmunix.com, tlambert@primenet.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:51:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Shankland [mailto:jas@flyingfox.com] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 12:43 PM > To: mark@vmunix.com; tlambert@primenet.com > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; isp@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... [snip] > The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just > slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the > client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes > is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops > to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some > unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on > this? I'd love to see it as a sysctl tuning option :) just $0.02 worth, -Troy Cobb Circle Net, Inc. http://www.circle.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 12:18:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24712 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:18:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from databus.databus.com (databus.databus.com [198.186.154.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24700; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barney@databus.databus.com) From: Barney Wolff To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:13 EDT Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: <3565cf630.1308@databus.databus.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:43:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Shankland > > The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just > slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the > client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes > is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops > to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some > unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on > this? See archives of the tcp-impl list. (majordomo@engr.sgi.com) ftp://ftp.sgi.com/other/tcp-impl/mail.archive Barney Wolff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 12:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28553 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tim.xenologics.com (tim.xenologics.com [194.77.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28512 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tim.xenologics.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id VAA11341; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:31:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by semyam.dinoco.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25522; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:29:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Message-Id: <199805221929.VAA25522@semyam.dinoco.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: joelh@gnu.org, seggers@semyam.dinoco.de Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 11:31:00 CDT." <199805221631.LAA22234@detlev.UUCP> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:29:59 +0200 From: Stefan Eggers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > First 'make world', then kernel. Almost always true. (There may be > > specific cases where you should get away from the kernel because it eats > > filesystems or something...) > > Why is that? I would expect some execs to depend on kernel features, > not vice versa. For building a new kernel you get a directory named like your kernel config file - usually under /usr/src/sys/compile/CONFIG_FILE_NAME. Creating this involves generating some C header files from the entries in your kernel config file and this is what /usr/sbin/config does. Now comes the tricky part. Lets suppose - like it happened lately with the CAM devices table - that the kernel sources need something in these generated header files which only a new /usr/sbin/config knows about. It works when you first do a "make world" or at least make a new config program (the new and more knowledgeable /usr/sbin/config is around then) but the computer won't be able to do it the other way round. User programs that "make world" creates sometimes depend on new kernel (new features, changed structures and so on) and those won't work in part or even in whole before you have a new kernel running. Usually what's missing is some new functionality or some program that you don't need for compiling and installing a new kernel. No loss as you are in single user mode by then as "make installworld" in multi user mode might cause severy confusion and a few minutes later you have a new kernel up and running (hopefully - sometimes bugs get in the way) anyway. Stefan. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 12:43:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00957; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:43:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26156; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:43:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026072; Fri May 22 12:43:15 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00619; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:43:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805221943.MAA00619@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... To: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:43:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mark@vmunix.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805221643.JAA01914@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> from "Jim Shankland" at May 22, 98 09:43:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) asks about large numbers of TCP connections > in TIME_WAIT and FIN_WAIT_2 states on a busy Web server. > Terry Lambert responds: > > > This is a client bug, specifically with Windows WinSock clients, which > > do not call "shutdown(2)" in the following way: > > > > shutdown( s, 1); > > > > The '1' should be a '2', but many WinSock implementations fail to work > > correctly if it isn't a '1'. > > > > [...] > > > > The fix is to be bug-compatible with Windows NT as a server, and to, > > when you are in FIN_WAIT_2 state, back up to resend the FIN. > > > > The problem is the lack of an ACK needed for a state transition in > > the Windows TCP/IP implemenetation. > > Terry, I think you have your TCP states mixed up. First, none of this > applies to the TIME_WAIT connections. I think it's you that are mixed up... see the Apache FAQ on FIN_WAIT_2, and contact Paul Vixie, as I've suggested. > As for the FIN_WAIT_2 connections: FIN_WAIT_2 means, "I'm done sending, > I've sent a FIN, the other side has ACKed my FIN, but the other side > has not sent *me* a FIN to indicate that it is done sending." One > would then expect the peer to be in CLOSE_WAIT state. This is a > perfectly legal state that can persist indefinitely, with the > CLOSE_WAIT end sending unbounded amounts of data to the FIN_WAIT_2 > end for consumption. > > Why on earth would you "back up to resend [a] FIN" that has already > been ACKed? Because the peer is *NOT* in CLOSE_WAIT state, because the peer is a Windows box, and the socket descriptor was abandoned with the peer in CLOSE_WAIT, without a resource-track cleanup of the connection. Here is the relevent state diagram from RFC793: TCP A TCP B 1. ESTABLISHED ESTABLISHED 2. (Close) FIN-WAIT-1 --> --> CLOSE-WAIT 3. FIN-WAIT-2 <-- <-- CLOSE-WAIT 4. (Close) TIME-WAIT <-- <-- LAST-ACK 5. TIME-WAIT --> --> CLOSED 6. (2 MSL) CLOSED Here is what the Windows machine does, when you are not running WinSock 2.0, and you have not called "shutdown()" on the socket, as documented in: Windows Sockets Network Programming Bob Quinn, Dave Shute Addison-Wesley _Advanced Windows Series_ ISBN: 0-201-63372-8 TCP A TCP B 1. ESTABLISHED ESTABLISHED 2. (Close) FIN-WAIT-1 --> --> CLOSE-WAIT 3. FIN-WAIT-2 <-- <-- CLOSE-WAIT 4. (Exit) FIN-WAIT-2 5. FIN-WAIT-2 6. FIN-WAIT-2 ... In other words, the socket is torn down without a LAST-ACK. The "workaround" that you should use to deal with this is to: A) wait 2 MSL for the LAST-ACK. B) reset to FIN-WAIT-1; send the packet. C) if you get CLOSE-WAIT, then goto (A). D) if you get no response in 2 MSL, or RST, then act as if you had recieved the CLOSE-WAIT, transitioned to FIN-WAIT-2, and subsequently recieved the LAST-ACK. E) (potential "enhancement") If you get no response, rather than treating it as an RST, goto (A), but maintain the FIN_WAIT_2_TIMEOUT kludge currently in place. This keeps the buggered connections (which are buggered by the inability to restart a damaged client conversation at state 2) around for a max of 6 MSL, and unbuggered connections act normally (due to duplicate packet reception processing). The need for a LAST-ACK without a TCP A packet solcitation of some kind is arguably a bug in the design of TCP (otherwise people would not be bitching about the problem). Of of the main pains-in-the-ass in not calling "shutdown()" is Netscape, BTW. > I suspect what you really mean is that the client side never sends its > FIN, even though it's really done sending, leaving the server-side > hanging in FIN_WAIT_2 state, waiting for either more data or a close > from the client, while the client wll never bother to send either.. > This can happen due to application-layer or TCP-layer bugs on the > client side, or because the client crashed or was powered off at an > inopportune time. > > What BSD-based TCP stacks do is this: if the FIN_WAIT_2 socket has > been closed by the application (i.e., there's no-one there to receive > any data that might arrive), and no data arrives for about 11 minutes, > then the connection is silently dropped. (Remember, if the FIN_WAIT_2 > socket has not been closed, then data could arrive after an arbitrarily > long silence, and there's a process there to read that data; so the > connection *must not* be dropped.) 11 mintues is too long a time compared to 6 MSL. By sending a "duplicate packet" to test the lividity of the client, you can solicit a "keepalive" (or an RST). If you get the RST, then you recover from the client error. Paul Vixie had to do this modification to NetBSD Alpha in order to handle a very high hit rate of a WWW server by technically broken Windows clients. > So what you're really seeing, Mark, is connections in FIN_WAIT_2 state, > where the web server has closed the socket, but the client has never > indicated that it is done sending. These hang around for about 11 > minutes, then disappear. (Of course, more take their place.) And according to RFC793, they are not supposed to be timed out at all, ever, and FreeBSD's implementation is non-conforming for doing the 11 minute drop. Being non-conformant is being non-conformant. It doesn't matter how you implement the non-conformance. With Vixie's implementation, at least the non-conformance does not result in incorrect behaviour for slow clients which are *truly* intendinding to actually send the LAST-ACK, but have not closed, over a period of more than 11 minutes (FIN_WAIT_2_TIMEOUT). > The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just > slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the > client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 minutes > is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout drops > to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some > unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts on > this? See the algorithm above. It is the Algorithm used by NT Server. Much as I hate the idea of being bug-compatible with NT, at the very least there should be a sysctl that acknowledges the fact that most client machines are Windows boxes with broken TCP implementations. This is roughly equivalent to the fact that FreeBSD allows RFC1323 & RFC1544 to be turned off to support non-conforming TCP implemetnations. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 12:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03573 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01249; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805221848.LAA01249@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Dan Janowski , Nicholas Charles Brawn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd vs linux (nfs) (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 11:17:51 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:48:46 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I may be dreaming but.. > > On Fri, 22 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > > > Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP UDP TCP > > > v2 v3 v4 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v1 > > > bsdi x x x x x x > > > freebsd x x x x x x x x x x x > > > linux x x x x > > > > either there have been commits I didn't see or I've greatly misunderstood > something. > I think the freebsd and linux rows have been swapped. No. But FreeBSD's "support" for statd/lockd is less than one might assume from the presence of an 'x'. OTOH, I was recently assured by a Linux user that their NFS-over-TCP doesn't work "properly", and it's not surprising that they're not listed as doing NFSv3. Whether we should be listed as doing it is also arguable I guess. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:12:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07077 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:12:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07065 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00233; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:12:00 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA02073; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:11:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522221149.45847@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:11:49 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "David E. Cross" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <35655743.DF617E85@mail.nycap.rr.com> <5434.895862748@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <5434.895862748@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:45:48AM -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA07067 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:45:48AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > > Scientist), but I need this > > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > > 1. Cvsup/CTM/whatever your sources up to date. > 2. make world s/world/buildworld/ > 3. make kernel 3.5 make installworld 3.6 make install (for kernel) > 4. reboot This give you a minimal window of vulnerability to 'anything bad'. Not that it is guaranteed to work anyway, but it give you a better chance. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:22:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08403 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08247 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06132; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 22:11:49 +0200." <19980522221149.45847@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:20:32 -0700 Message-ID: <6128.895868432@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, I'm afraid your "correction" is incorrect. Making the kernel after a "buildworld" is completely useless since buildworld won't INSTALL any of the things (like config) that the kernel needs. You MUST install before the kernel config, build and install stage. - Jordan > On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:45:48AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > > > Scientist), but I need this > > > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > > > > 1. Cvsup/CTM/whatever your sources up to date. > > 2. make world > s/world/buildworld/ > > > 3. make kernel > 3.5 make installworld > 3.6 make install (for kernel) > > > 4. reboot > > This give you a minimal window of vulnerability to 'anything bad'. > Not that it is guaranteed to work anyway, but it give you a better > chance. > > Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:27:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09513 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Fri May 22 15:08 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA21748 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:27:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:27:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: mark@vmunix.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:27:13 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Mark Mayo[SMTP:mark@vmunix.com] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:54 PM > To: Jim Shankland; tlambert@primenet.com > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; isp@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... > > On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 09:43:04AM -0700, Jim Shankland wrote: > > > So what you're really seeing, Mark, is connections in FIN_WAIT_2 > state, > > where the web server has closed the socket, but the client has never > > indicated that it is done sending. These hang around for about 11 > > minutes, then disappear. (Of course, more take their place.) > > > > The reason for the 11 minute wait is so that if the client is just > > slow going through its shutdown stuff, the server can still walk the > > client through an orderly close. On the other hand, maybe 11 > minutes > > is too long? I'll bet nothing terrible happens if that timeout > drops > > to 1 minute ... or 30 seconds. Even 0 would at worst lead to some > > unnecessary RST's on closing connections. Anyone have any thoughts > on > > this? > > I'm thinking that setting it to 2MSL, like TIME_WAIT might be okay, > and still relatively conservative. 4 minutes is not bad, and on a > It occurred that I'm reading the McKusick & other's book right now and this is the exact quote on the TCP implementation: "In addition, 4.4BSD starts the 2MSL timer when FIN_WAIT_2 state is entered after the user has closed." So, probably this is the reason why you don't see so many hanging sockets in FIN_WAIT_2 on FreeBSD. -Serge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:28:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09601 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:28:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (YceWX4fh0ZIQ5njISUJCCWrsrVZVbwui@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09538 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.66] ([YGm4YICAwcIiOR8Rk4N9DrJygBudEoim]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ycyPo-0006cn-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:27:44 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak66.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ycyPn-0002lv-00; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:27:43 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:27:42 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tcp states and sysctl's Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I don't think a shutdown(2) sysctl is necessary. a) the BSD stack is currently compliant in this regard, if anything need's changing it's the client. b) no-one has produced any evidence to show that all these sockets in TIME_WAIT_2 are actully having a negative impact in performance on the system. Actually, I would seriously hope not, because otherwise this is a relatively easy DoS. (Though probably not as effective as a SYN flood.) If you do decide to put in a sysctl bear in mind that rsh uses shutdown(2) to close down one end of a socket so you don't want the timeout to be too short. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:36:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11576 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00868 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:35:57 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA02203; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:35:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522223552.03137@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:35:52 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Weird behaviour in BootEasy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just switched my system to use a different bootdrive (a DPT RAID array, actually) than I had before, and got the following behaviour: On a standard boot, BootEasy won't go to BSD, displaying 'F?' when I select the BSD partiton. However, if I select F5 for booting to another drive (even though I don't have another bootable drive), then reboot, and _then_ press F2 when booteasy appears, it boots and works fine. Let me repeat the exact steps to get it to work: 1. Boot until I reach booteasy 2. Press F5 3. Reboot 4. Continue until I reach booteasy 5. Press F2 6. Boot normally from the FreeBSD bootblocks. If I reboot after this, I again get the F? when it tries to auto-select the BSD partition (or if I press F2 without having pressed F5 first). The BIOS and FreeBSD mostly agrees on disk layout - the BIOS believes there to be 1024 cylinders, not 1954 as below. root(bitbox)--# fdisk sd0 ******* Working on device /dev/rsd0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=1954 heads=64 sectors/track=32 (2048 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=1954 heads=64 sectors/track=32 (2048 blks/cyl) Media sector size is 512 Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 1 is: sysid 6,(Primary 'big' DOS (> 32MB)) start 32, size 131040 (63 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1; end: cyl 63/ sector 32/ head 63 The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 131072, size 3870720 (1890 Meg), flag 80 (active) beg: cyl 64/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 1023/ sector 32/ head 63 The data for partition 3 is: The data for partition 4 is: Any clues? Or should I just re-install BootEasy and see if it goes away? (It seems like such an interesting little problem... :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 13:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14754 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14705; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01311; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:53:28 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA02288; Fri, 22 May 1998 22:53:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522225323.00501@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:53:23 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP resource locking References: <19980522114305.Z27201@freebie.lemis.com> <199805220501.AAA02725@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805220501.AAA02725@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 12:01:18AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 12:01:18AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: > > I haven't paid much attention to SMP problems yet, but I need to now. > > Can somebody point me to functions to ensure single-thread passing of > > critical sections? In a UP environment I'd use splhigh (), but that's > > obviously not enough for SMP. > > > For now, splhigh in a normal driver context will work. That is > of course broken, but it will work fine. In the future, it won't. What's the right way to write this now? Add locks 'as one feel like', or just ignore the lock-issues beyond spl(), or ? Eivind, curious. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:02:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16081 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA13138; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:07:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199805222107.HAA13138@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug In-Reply-To: <199805221234.IAA08870@highwind.com> from HighWind Software Information at "May 22, 98 08:34:13 am" To: info@highwind.com (HighWind Software Information) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 07:07:16 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@highwind.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG HighWind Software Information wrote: > > >Is the code being compiled with -D_THREAD_SAFE ? > > Yep. Everything everytime. > > "-D_THREAD_SAFE" and "-D_REENTRANT" > > (Although -D_REENTRANT probably does nothing. It is important on other > O/S's. So, we left it in.) > > Also, linking with "-lc_r" OK, I think I see the problem. I'll send you a patch in separate mail to see if it fixes the problem. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:08:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from highwind.com (hurricane.highwind.com [209.61.45.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17149 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:08:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@highwind.com) Received: (from info@localhost) by highwind.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA05684; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805222106.RAA05684@highwind.com> From: HighWind Software Information To: jb@cimlogic.com.au CC: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@highwind.com In-reply-to: <199805222107.HAA13138@cimlogic.com.au> (message from John Birrell on Sat, 23 May 1998 07:07:16 +1000 (EST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John, A customer of ours pointed out that FreeBSD 3.0's uthread_write.c has a "_thread_kern_sig_block(&status);" in there as well. Unknown if that is the issue. I also believe that write() calls are returning "EAGAIN" sometimes and writing data. It is supposed to return EAGAIN and have written NO data. That way, when you retry the write() call, it doesn't resend the same data. -Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17401 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17296; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02498; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:09:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199805222109.QAA02498@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: SMP resource locking In-Reply-To: <19980522225323.00501@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "May 22, 98 10:53:23 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:09:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, grog@lemis.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund said: > On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 12:01:18AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Greg Lehey said: > > > I haven't paid much attention to SMP problems yet, but I need to now. > > > Can somebody point me to functions to ensure single-thread passing of > > > critical sections? In a UP environment I'd use splhigh (), but that's > > > obviously not enough for SMP. > > > > > For now, splhigh in a normal driver context will work. That is > > of course broken, but it will work fine. In the future, it won't. > > What's the right way to write this now? Add locks 'as one feel like', > or just ignore the lock-issues beyond spl(), or ? > For now, just do the spl thing. There is finer grained control available, but deadlocks are easy to cause. I am working aggressively on swtch.s right now and some of the other mp type issues, trying to improve things, schedule the code, get the smp TLB shootdown correct, and other things. mp_lock can be used to advantage, but deadlocks will happen without great care... So, to people working on the code, please stay away from swtch.s and to a lesser extent apic_vector and mp_machdep :-). At least let me know what you are doing, and we can work together :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:14:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18494 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA13177; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:19:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199805222119.HAA13177@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.2.6 + pthread == write() bug In-Reply-To: <199805222106.RAA05684@highwind.com> from HighWind Software Information at "May 22, 98 05:06:57 pm" To: info@highwind.com (HighWind Software Information) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 07:19:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, support@highwind.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG HighWind Software Information wrote: > A customer of ours pointed out that FreeBSD 3.0's uthread_write.c has > a "_thread_kern_sig_block(&status);" in there as well. Unknown if that > is the issue. -current has changed away from blocking signals for performance reasons, so I think that comment is a bit out-of-date. > I also believe that write() calls are returning "EAGAIN" sometimes and > writing data. Unless it actually returns an error, you shouldn't bother about what errno is set to because the library uses EAGAIN internally. > > It is supposed to return EAGAIN and have written NO data. That way, when > you retry the write() call, it doesn't resend the same data. Looking at the code, it doesn't check for a short write on a blocking fd. You are quite right, it should check the number of bytes written and keep looping until it has written the number of bytes required. It will take me a little while to update my 2.2.6 system (it normally runs -current). -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22141 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22118 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:31:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00326; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:30:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199805222130.QAA00326@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: How MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP is used? In-Reply-To: from zhihuizhang at "May 22, 98 11:02:22 am" To: bf20761@binghamton.edu (zhihuizhang) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:30:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zhihuizhang said: > > Hi, friends: > > I am reading VM source code concerning the vm_map_entry structure. There > is a flag called MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP used widely, but I search all the > codes in VM and can not find where this flag gets set into the eflags > field of the vm_map_entry structure. By the way, MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_SUB_MAP > is set in vm_map_submap( ). It is often used together with > MAP_ENTRY_IS_A_MAP. I hope someone can give me a hint on this. > It is legacy, perhaps to be resurrected, perhaps not. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 14:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27000 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26991 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02778 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:56:43 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA02627; Fri, 22 May 1998 23:56:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:56:37 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel hackers Tricks & Tips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At request, I start off this document - I'll also volunteer to function as editor until it is in a suitable state to be put in the handbook. 1. The kernel is large; it is convenient to be able to grep in it without it taking time corresponding to it's size. To accomplish this, you can use 'glimpse' from the ports collection (textproc/glimpse). To build the indexes (assuming you have your kernel in /sys): % glimpseindex -b /sys/ ^^ large index - no option give you a tiny index (2-3%), -o small (7-8%), -b large (20-30%) Afterwards, you just use % glimpse to search for . Glimpse support a somewhat limited set of regexpen. 2. Sometimes you might want to do large-scale style-changes to the kernel (e.g, moving options to be 'new-style' instead of 'old-style'). These are changes that should result in any change to the kernel, but how do you test that? Simple - diff the object files from an old kernel against the object files from your a kernel with your changes in it. However, don't become too scared if something turn up as changed - a few kernel files contain uses __LINE__ for printing debugging info; check for this first. 3. You can automatically find problems (potential bugs) in old source by running flexelint against it - flexelint is available from Gimpel software (http://www.gimpel.com/). It is kind of pricey, but tend to pay back quickly if you're programming for a living. It e.g. allowed staticizing of the entire FreeBSD kernel in approximately two hours. ("Just a satisfied customer" and all that stuff.) 4. If you are changing kernel APIs and wonder if your changes are breaking the LKMs, there is a simple test. Compile the 'LKM' kernel, build the LKMs, and run 'make regress' in the src/lkm directory. 5. There exists a 'magic' way of making timing-related bugs static: Add full checking for the integrity of datastructures (invariants). If you have a weird bug involving timing-dependent corruption, add as full checks as you are able to any nearby data structures. The bugs tend to suddenly become deterministic failures. (This assume that you have some knowledge of the area of code you're changing). Now, anybody else want to chip in? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 15:23:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02333 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02317 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02520; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805222117.OAA02520@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "David E. Cross" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 22:11:49 +0200." <19980522221149.45847@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:17:31 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:45:48AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > > > Scientist), but I need this > > > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > > > > 1. Cvsup/CTM/whatever your sources up to date. > > 2. make world > s/world/buildworld/ > > > 3. make kernel > 3.5 make installworld > 3.6 make install (for kernel) > > > 4. reboot > > This give you a minimal window of vulnerability to 'anything bad'. > Not that it is guaranteed to work anyway, but it give you a better > chance. No it won't - particularly it will fail if config needs to be updated to build the kernel. The original order stands - update, world, kernel, reboot. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 15:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ducky.net (mike@gate.ducky.net [198.145.101.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07951 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@ducky.net) Received: (from mike@localhost) by ducky.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA03154; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Haertel Message-Id: <199805222252.PAA03154@ducky.net> To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, jlemon@americantv.com Subject: Re: Original PC and talk Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, soekris@alameda.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: >It uses those invisible internal registers to store things coming from >or going to real registers. The strategy is far more useful when there >are more registers _to_ rename. You are deeply mistaken. The purpose of register renaming is to eliminate "antidependencies". An antidependency is when you have a long-latency operation that writes a registers, followed by another long latency operation than writes the same register. E.g.: R1 = long_slow_operation use R1 R1 = another_long_slow_operation use R1 Register renaming puts each subsequent write to R1 in a different physical register, and keeps track of which physical register holds the most recent value of R1. After being renamed, the above code might look like: R1 = long slow operation use R1 R1 = another_long_slow_operation use R1 The idea is that the two long slow operations can now proceed in parallel because they are writing different physical registers. Now you should realize that register renaming is most important on a machine with FEW architectural registers. Extreme example: suppose you had a machine with only one register. Without register renaming, each operation that wrote that register would have to wait for the previous operation to complete. With register renaming, the machine would only have to wait when there were actual data dependencies (younger operation wants to read the result of older operation). On the other hand, if a machine has LOTS of architectural registers (like the Alpha) then the compiler can put each successive instruction's result into a different register. So even if the machine does no register renaming, it can proceed without stalling for antidependencies, because the compiler can ensure that there aren't any simply by not writing any one register too often. Effectively the compiler can do register renaming (think of it as result renaming) in software. So there is less of a need for hardware register renaming. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 15:54:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08070 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@gw.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07998 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) Message-ID: <19980522155349.24896@the.oneinsane.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:53:49 -0700 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <19980522221149.45847@follo.net> <6128.895868432@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e In-Reply-To: <6128.895868432@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 01:20:32PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.6-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA08003 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, to put in plainly this is the understanding I have of cvsup/updating the system: 1. Cvsup 2. make world 3. config 4. make depend 5. make 6. make install 7. sync 8. sync 9. shutdown -r now This has always worked for me and nevr failed. So if I am doing something wrong I would like to know. Ron On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 01:20:32PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Actually, I'm afraid your "correction" is incorrect. Making > the kernel after a "buildworld" is completely useless since > buildworld won't INSTALL any of the things (like config) that > the kernel needs. You MUST install before the kernel config, > build and install stage. > > - Jordan > > > On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:45:48AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Ok, maybe I am just being obtuse... (maybe I am just a Computer > > > > Scientist), but I need this > > > > explicitly said to me; what is the propper order for compiling? > > > > > > 1. Cvsup/CTM/whatever your sources up to date. > > > 2. make world > > s/world/buildworld/ > > > > > 3. make kernel > > 3.5 make installworld > > 3.6 make install (for kernel) > > > > > 4. reboot > > > > This give you a minimal window of vulnerability to 'anything bad'. > > Not that it is guaranteed to work anyway, but it give you a better > > chance. > > > > Eivind. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 16:33:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14911 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt053nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.34.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14828 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10551; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:32:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35660AFF.1E191CC6@san.rr.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:32:15 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0507 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Niall Smart CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp states and sysctl's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Niall Smart wrote: > > Hi, > > I don't think a shutdown(2) sysctl is necessary. > > a) the BSD stack is currently compliant in this regard, if > anything need's changing it's the client. Finger-pointing doesn't help. If there is a problem we can deal with at the server level I want to be able to deal with it. > b) no-one has produced any evidence to show that all > these sockets in TIME_WAIT_2 are actully having a > negative impact in performance on the system. Actually, > I would seriously hope not, because otherwise this > is a relatively easy DoS. (Though probably not as > effective as a SYN flood.) My main concern is fd's right now (mostly due to a project I'm working on :). When exactly does the fd associated with a connection like this get allocated and when does it get released? Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of one of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 16:43:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17624 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17617 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:43:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05243; Fri, 22 May 1998 23:43:37 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA03167; Sat, 23 May 1998 01:43:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980523014332.46600@follo.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:43:32 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem resolutions... References: <19980522221149.45847@follo.net> <6128.895868432@time.cdrom.com> <19980522155349.24896@the.oneinsane.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980522155349.24896@the.oneinsane.net>; from Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 03:53:49PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 03:53:49PM -0700, Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson wrote: > Well, > to put in plainly this is the understanding I have of cvsup/updating > the system: > > 1. Cvsup > 2. make world > 3. config > 4. make depend > 5. make > 6. make install > 7. sync > 8. sync > 9. shutdown -r now > > This has always worked for me and nevr failed. So if I am doing something > wrong I would like to know. No, it should be fine (except you don't need point 8.). You have a tiny window of vulnerabilty between 3 and 6, but it is difficult to avoid. You could use the newly built tools to build a kernel before installing anything, but I wouldn't bother. Eivind, who doesn't use 'world' much - 'make && make install' is much faster :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 17:11:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23167 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:11:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23145 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14259; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:08:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost Reply-To: Chuck Robey To: Mike Haertel cc: jlemon@americantv.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, soekris@alameda.net Subject: Re: Original PC and talk In-Reply-To: <199805222252.PAA03154@ducky.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 22 May 1998, Mike Haertel wrote: > Chuck Robey wrote: > >It uses those invisible internal registers to store things coming from > >or going to real registers. The strategy is far more useful when there > >are more registers _to_ rename. > > You are deeply mistaken. No, I'm not at all. Register renaming isn't done by the compiler, it's done by the processor, so you can't say (as you do in your last paragraph) that the compiler can handle it. First, the reason for lots of registers is to cut memory accesses, and just makes the dependency problem more difficult. Your last example, where you only have 1 register, is too unreal to cope with (you need 2 sources and one sink to have _some_ reality), assume you did have 3 registers. The problem of keeping track of only 3 registers is far simpler than keeping track of, say, 64 registers. This is fairly obvious. Having those lots of registers makes the compiler's job of marshalling arguments easier, and allows the compiler to set things up for maximum parallelization, but the processor still has to do the dependency checking itself, the compiler doesn't do that. If the compiler orders things wrong, efficiency suffers. If the processor orders things wrong, the resulting data is incorrect. It's the processor's job to make a parallel instruction stream work exactly as if it was a serial stream. I simplified my original post, because I didn't want to take everyone thru this, but I wasn't deeply mistaken. > The purpose of register renaming is to eliminate "antidependencies". > An antidependency is when you have a long-latency operation that > writes a registers, followed by another long latency operation > than writes the same register. E.g.: > > R1 = long_slow_operation > use R1 > R1 = another_long_slow_operation > use R1 > > Register renaming puts each subsequent write to R1 in a different > physical register, and keeps track of which physical register > holds the most recent value of R1. After being renamed, the > above code might look like: > > R1 = long slow operation > use R1 > R1 = another_long_slow_operation > use R1 > > The idea is that the two long slow operations can now proceed in > parallel because they are writing different physical registers. > > Now you should realize that register renaming is most > important on a machine with FEW architectural registers. > > Extreme example: suppose you had a machine with only one > register. Without register renaming, each operation that > wrote that register would have to wait for the previous > operation to complete. With register renaming, the > machine would only have to wait when there were actual > data dependencies (younger operation wants to read the > result of older operation). > > On the other hand, if a machine has LOTS of architectural > registers (like the Alpha) then the compiler can put each > successive instruction's result into a different register. > So even if the machine does no register renaming, it can > proceed without stalling for antidependencies, because > the compiler can ensure that there aren't any simply by > not writing any one register too often. Effectively the > compiler can do register renaming (think of it as result > renaming) in software. So there is less of a need for > hardware register renaming. > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 17:24:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26254 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26198 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA04614; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:25:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199805230025.RAA04614@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it's you that are mixed up... see the Apache FAQ on FIN_WAIT_2, > and contact Paul Vixie, as I've suggested. Let's assume that we mostly differ on terminology. (I confess I get slightly disoriented by phrases like, "Wait for the LAST-ACK," and "If you get a CLOSE_WAIT" -- these being TCP states, not messages. However, I think I can figure out what you mean.) You are, in effect, suggesting turning on a keepalive with a short timeout (overriding the normal retry timer) whenever a connection is in FIN_WAIT_2 and the socket is closed. After 2 MSL in the state "FIN_WAIT_2-and-the-socket-has-been-closed," you send a keepalive. If the peer responds with a RST, you tear the connection down. If the peer responds with its own FIN within the next 2 MSL, you go through the normal close sequence. If the peer doesn't respond at all, then after the second 2MSL wait, you tear the connection down.You don't state what you would do if the peer merely ACKs the keepalive; presumably keep the connection up, and probe it again later (how much later?) with another keepalive? I dunno; might be marginally better than just tearing the connection down after a few minutes. CGEW. btw, whoever it was who said, "Don't do this because rsh uses half-open connections" -- you missed a key point. None of this applies if the application process still has the socket open. This only applies when the application has entirely closed the socket, so there's nobody there to receive any data that might arrive. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 17:38:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28326 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28321 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:38:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA04688; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199805230039.RAA04688@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, Studded@san.rr.com Subject: Re: tcp states and sysctl's Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Studded writes: [Re all those TCP connections in FIN_WAIT_2]: > My main concern is fd's right now (mostly due to a project I'm working > on :). When exactly does the fd associated with a connection like this > get allocated and when does it get released? The fd is gone; the server has closed the socket. In my opinion, the biggest (potential) problem with having thousands of (de facto dead) TCP connections hanging around in FIN_WAIT_2 is the fact that there are still some linear traversals of the TCB list in the code (like in the timers). My apologies in advance if this has been addressed in -CURRENT; I "live" on the STABLE branch. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 17:44:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29501 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-k56flex-0148.jumpnet.com [207.8.6.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29486 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id TAA10330; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:44:13 -0500 (CDT) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter References: <199805201845.LAA01405@dingo.cdrom.com> From: Dave Marquardt Date: 22 May 1998 19:44:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Wed, 20 May 1998 11:45:46 -0700" Message-ID: <854syh95pf.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.22/XEmacs 19.16 - "Lille" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > > Very appreciated if anybody can answer the questions: > > > > 1. Does BPF support the monitoring of out going packages? how? I know > > it can monitor the receiving packages and directly write a new package > > into the specified network interface. How about the packages written > > by other network or transport protocols? > > Yes. A simple test would have show you this. > > > 2. Solaris seems having a similar soft-driver called "Network > > Interface Tap". Anybody use that before? Can it monitoring both > > incoming and outgoing packages? > > Yes. > > > 3. Any similar programming interface in the socket level? > > No. > > > 4. How about in HP-UX, Linux, and AIX? AIX has BPF, but read only. BPF was ported read-only to support tcpdump. -Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 18:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04900 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from d183-205.uoregon.edu (d183-205.uoregon.edu [128.223.183.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04862 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by d183-205.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA04724; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980522181320.51147@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:13:20 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Eivind Eklund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel hackers Tricks & Tips References: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Fri, May 22, 1998 at 11:56:37PM +0200 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund scribbled this message on May 22: > 1. The kernel is large; it is convenient to be able to grep in it > without it taking time corresponding to it's size. To accomplish > this, you can use 'glimpse' from the ports collection > (textproc/glimpse). > To build the indexes (assuming you have your kernel in /sys): > % glimpseindex -b /sys/ > ^^ large index - no option give you a tiny index > (2-3%), -o small (7-8%), -b large (20-30%) > Afterwards, you just use > % glimpse > to search for . Glimpse support a somewhat limited set of > regexpen. this is an absolute must if you need to find stuff, I've been putting off installing glimpse for a LONG time, and now I regret that I waited so long... be prepared for a commit that will document (and remove) a number of kernel options.. also, if you run across any options that haven't been documented, or isn't a proper option, send it to me, and I'll document it (or remove it if it isn't used anymore, like LINUX)... :) -- John-Mark Gurney Modem Rev/FAX: +1 541 346 9237 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 18:57:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:57:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11620 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:56:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14814; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:56:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id UAA26297; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:56:03 -0500 Message-ID: <19980522205602.26321@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:56:02 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Chuck Robey Cc: Mike Haertel , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, soekris@alameda.net Subject: Re: Original PC and talk References: <199805222252.PAA03154@ducky.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Chuck Robey on May 05, 1998 at 07:08:37PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 05, 1998 at 07:08:37PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Fri, 22 May 1998, Mike Haertel wrote: > > > Chuck Robey wrote: > > >It uses those invisible internal registers to store things coming from > > >or going to real registers. The strategy is far more useful when there > > >are more registers _to_ rename. > > > > You are deeply mistaken. > > No, I'm not at all. Register renaming isn't done by the compiler, it's > done by the processor, so you can't say (as you do in your last > paragraph) that the compiler can handle it. Uh, it can be done by both. I'll refer you to Hennnessy & Patterson, 2nd edition, (which I assume you have), page 232: [ Register renaming can be done either statically by a compiler or dynamically by the hardware. ] > just makes the dependency problem more difficult. Your last example, > where you only have 1 register, is too unreal to cope with (you need 2 Not at all. The HP MPE 3000 series is a stack-based machine, and only has one "register"; the accumulator. Now, before you accuse me of dredging up ancient history, I'll point out _another_ stack based architecture: Java. > parallelization, but the processor still has to do the dependency > checking itself, the compiler doesn't do that. If the compiler orders Again, it depends. Merced, for example, is supposed to depend heavily on the compiler to arrange things, so there does not have to be as much hardware to do dynamic checking. Tinker, based on the HP-playdoh approach, is another architecture that also depends on the compiler to explicitly mark parallelism in the instruction stream. > the resulting data is incorrect. It's the processor's job to make a > parallel instruction stream work exactly as if it was a serial stream. I think that you have this backwards. The processors' job is to exploit the instruction-level parallelism inherent in a serial stream. Modern chips do this by speculative execution, branch prediction, and out-of-order execution. Hardware register renaming _is_ more important for those cases where there are fewer architectural registers, because it allows the processor to re-order the instruction stream to exploit maximal parallelism. For those chips with a larger architectural register set, the compiler can re-order the instructions so that there are fewer WAW and WAR hazards. While the "reservation stations", to use the Tomasulo terminology, do store things "coming and going to real registers", they increase the overall parallelism of the chip by in-effect providing more registers for use. Please refer to H&P, page 251, 259, and 310 for a discussion of reservation stations, and reorder buffers. To quote H&P again: [ The reservation stations extend the real register set via the renaming process ]. For a good overview of the process, I would also recommend J.E.Smith, G.S.Sohi, "The Microarchitecture of Superscalar Processors", Proceedings of the IEEE, December 1995. it does provide an overview of the AMD K5 architecture (as well as some other processors. For an overview of Intel's chip, I would suggest: L.Gwennap, "Intel's P6 uses Decoupled Superscalar Design", Microprocessor Report, February 1995. Although you can probably find some better references since then. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 19:16:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14277 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (root@[208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14270 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (76.camalott.com [208.203.140.76]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19131; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:14:16 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24213; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:01:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:01:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805230201.VAA24213@detlev.UUCP> To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu CC: eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980522181320.51147@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> (message from John-Mark Gurney on Fri, 22 May 1998 18:13:20 -0700) Subject: Re: Kernel hackers Tricks & Tips From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net> <19980522181320.51147@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > also, if you run across any options that haven't been documented, or > isn't a proper option, send it to me, and I'll document it (or remove > it if it isn't used anymore, like LINUX)... :) Well, to get my Sound Galaxy NX Pro 16 to work with the sb driver, I had to use the option CONFIG_SBPRO. I don't know if most people do or not; that's all I could get it to work with. Note that it was probably about six months or so ago that I last was sure it was necessary; I haven't removed it for many kernel builds now. But this option is neither documented anywhere (as near as I can tell), nor recognized by config. Here is the relevant section of my config file. The comments are failed attempts to get this working. # Sound card controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 # device mss0 at isa? port 0x530 conflicts irq 5 conflicts drq 1 conflicts vector adintr disabled # device uart0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 5 vector "m6850intr" options CONFIG_SBPRO # options __SGNXPRO__ device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" pseudo-device speaker Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 20:28:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22635 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22625 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199805230328.UAA22625@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA221363960; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:26:01 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:26:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, lc001@yahoo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805220107.SAA26775@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from "Jason Thorpe" at May 21, 98 06:07:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Jason Thorpe, sie said: > > On Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan > > > mentioned available in somewhere? > > > > ipfilter is Darren Reed's in-kernel firewall product. > > > > divert(4) is a FreeBSD-native feature. It is not, to the best of my > > knowledge, emulated by anything else. > > Uh... doens't IP Filter implement a divert(4)-like feature? Sort of. divert(4) provides complete packets through a socket(2) interface, so if you want to do NAT or anything else with divert(4), you incur the overhead of at least two context switches. IP Filter does as much as it can inside the kernel, with trapping to userland only for authentication of packets.. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 20:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22896 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (root@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22887 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id NAA27062 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:30:30 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:30:29 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel hackers Tricks & Tips In-Reply-To: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What I am really interested in is some sort of online documentation on FreeBSD/4.4 BSD Kernel Hacking. Something along the lines of the Linux Kernel Hackers Guide. Is there any documentation like this available? Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick - public key available on request. Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of Wollongong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 22 21:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27343 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:16:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA27335 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-131.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.131]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA32115; Fri, 22 May 1998 23:16:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA12524; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:06:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805230106.UAA12524@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: freebsd vs linux (nfs) (fwd) In-reply-to: Message from Julian Elischer of "Fri, 22 May 1998 11:17:51 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:06:06 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes: > I may be dreaming but.. > > On Fri, 22 May 1998, Dan Janowski wrote: > > > > Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP Over UDP Over TCP U > DP TCP > > > v2 v3 v4 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v1 v2 v3 v4 v1 v2 v3 v4 v > 1 v1 > > > bsdi x x x x x x > > > freebsd x x x x x x x x x x x > > > linux x x x x > > > > either there have been commits I didn't see or I've greatly misunderstood > something. > I think the freebsd and linux rows have been swapped. No, FreeBSD does have NFS over TCP. "man nfsd" for proof. At least I *think* thats proof. There is also mention of version 3 but a quick glance didn't suggest a way to select between v2 and v3 until I checked "man mount_nfs". However the lock stuff was/is news to me. Maybe in -current? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 00:35:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13567 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13557 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA02175; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd002173; Sat May 23 07:28:29 1998 Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:28:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Darren Reed cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, mike@smith.net.au, lc001@yahoo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions about Packet Filter In-Reply-To: <199805230328.UAA22625@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 May 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Jason Thorpe, sie said: > > > > On Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 > > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > > 1. Are the ipfilter tools using divert() function that Mike and Dan > > > > mentioned available in somewhere? > > > > > > ipfilter is Darren Reed's in-kernel firewall product. > > > > > > divert(4) is a FreeBSD-native feature. It is not, to the best of my > > > knowledge, emulated by anything else. > > > > Uh... doens't IP Filter implement a divert(4)-like feature? > > Sort of. divert(4) provides complete packets through a socket(2) > interface, so if you want to do NAT or anything else with divert(4), > you incur the overhead of at least two context switches. Of course.. that's what it's for! It's to allow people to write USERLAND processes to do arbtrary procrdding on packets extracted from a stream and re-insert them back into the stream. This was done at the request of people at CSRG who said that they wanted to see some work we were proposing 'OUT of the kernel and not IN it'. > > IP Filter does as much as it can inside the kernel, with trapping to > userland only for authentication of packets.. > > Darren > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 03:28:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA04142 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 03:28:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19621; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:27:52 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA10053; Sat, 23 May 1998 12:27:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980523122745.48159@follo.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 12:27:45 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Nicholas Charles Brawn , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel hackers Tricks & Tips References: <19980522235637.35026@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicholas Charles Brawn on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 01:30:29PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 01:30:29PM +1000, Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote: > What I am really interested in is some sort of online documentation on > FreeBSD/4.4 BSD Kernel Hacking. Something along the lines of the Linux > Kernel Hackers Guide. Is there any documentation like this available? Not in any clear form. There is something that is supposed to become a guide for device driver authors, but apart from that most documentation is in the books. I'd recommend The Design and Implementation of BSD 4.4, by McKusick et al. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 05:48:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20587 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (IyaysqvMP0eYKvfKQoE1v87Ow7fS0Bu3@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA20578; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([a+uCvNv8PtCXHuJbZsFGfqEmGalMqQpD]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ydDip-0000VP-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:48:23 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ydDio-0001gv-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:48:22 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:48:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2..." (May 22, 7:43pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: mark@vmunix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 22, 7:43pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... > > [mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) asks about large numbers of TCP connections > Because the peer is *NOT* in CLOSE_WAIT state, because the peer is > a Windows box, and the socket descriptor was abandoned with the > peer in CLOSE_WAIT, without a resource-track cleanup of the connection. [snip] > Here is what the Windows machine does, when you are not running > WinSock 2.0, and you have not called "shutdown()" on the socket, [snip] > TCP A TCP B > > 1. ESTABLISHED ESTABLISHED > > 2. (Close) > FIN-WAIT-1 --> --> CLOSE-WAIT > > 3. FIN-WAIT-2 <-- <-- CLOSE-WAIT > > 4. (Exit) > FIN-WAIT-2 > 5. > FIN-WAIT-2 > 6. > FIN-WAIT-2 > > In other words, the socket is torn down without a LAST-ACK. > The "workaround" that you should use to deal with this is to: > > A) wait 2 MSL for the LAST-ACK. > > B) reset to FIN-WAIT-1; send the packet. > > C) if you get CLOSE-WAIT, then goto (A). I'm a little unclear as to what exactly what should happen when a TCP stack receives a packet when it is in CLOSE-WAIT state. Are you relying on the following bahaviour documented in STD7, line ~2358? 3. If the connection is in a synchronized state (ESTABLISHED, FIN-WAIT-1, FIN-WAIT-2, CLOSE-WAIT, CLOSING, LAST-ACK, TIME-WAIT), any unacceptable segment (out of window sequence number or unacceptible acknowledgment number) must elicit only an empty acknowledgment segment containing the current send-sequence number and an acknowledgment indicating the next sequence number expected to be received, and the connection remains in the same state. > D) if you get no response in 2 MSL, or RST, then act as if > you had recieved the CLOSE-WAIT, transitioned to FIN-WAIT-2, > and subsequently recieved the LAST-ACK. Uh-huh. > E) (potential "enhancement") If you get no response, rather > than treating it as an RST, goto (A), but maintain the > FIN_WAIT_2_TIMEOUT kludge currently in place. Can I suggest that if you receive a response after step C, which you call the CLOSE-WAIT response, then the TCP stack should remain in FIN-WAIT-2 with an infinite timeout, because the response indicates that the remote TCP stack not broken and moreover that the remote client is not finished sending yet. (i.e. the 11 minute timeout you mention later would not be used) > Of of the main pains-in-the-ass in not calling "shutdown()" is > Netscape, BTW. Well, the Windows TCP/IP stack should be sending the FIN when the socket is closed. > 11 mintues is too long a time compared to 6 MSL. By sending a > "duplicate packet" to test the lividity of the client, you can > solicit a "keepalive" (or an RST). If you get the RST, then you > recover from the client error. And otherwise wait indefinately for the FIN? > And according to RFC793, they are not supposed to be timed out at > all, ever, and FreeBSD's implementation is non-conforming for doing > the 11 minute drop. [snip] > Much as I hate the idea of being bug-compatible with NT, at the very > least there should be a sysctl that acknowledges the fact that most > client machines are Windows boxes with broken TCP implementations. I think that this is a bug Microsoft would be eager to fix, after all, if it affects FreeBSD web servers it also affects NT web servers, as well as NT file servers, Exchange servers etc etc. Has anyone yet verified that this is indeed the observed behaviour with NT with all applied patches? If so perhaps we should try and convince Microsoft to fix the problem first. Although having said that, Terry's algorithm does have the nice side effect of allowing us to remove the 11 minute non-conformant FIN-WAIT-2 drop. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 05:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (jmZOnL2GTyQhO2xG8Tl9FeZ44uyPpyS9@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA21063 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([LENadC0sRJFDDfU+5NyEngB1yH0XqD8R]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ydDmN-0000Vg-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:52:03 +0100 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0ydDmM-0001hC-00; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:52:02 +0100 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:52:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jim Shankland "Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2..." (May 22, 5:25pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Jim Shankland , tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 22, 5:25pm, Jim Shankland wrote: } Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... > btw, whoever it was who said, "Don't do this because rsh uses > half-open connections" -- you missed a key point. None of this > applies if the application process still has the socket open. > This only applies when the application has entirely closed the > socket, so there's nobody there to receive any data that might > arrive. That was me. I don't believe what you are saying is correct. A process can place a socket in TIME_WAIT_2 by issuing a shutdown(fd, 1) while continuing to read from it. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 05:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21467 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 05:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15256; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:55:19 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Message-ID: <19980523135519.B15041@pavilion.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:55:19 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Dan Riley Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WINE and Starcraft References: <199805150838.SAA24038@cain.gsoft.com.au> <355C7B43.A3954A1B@dal.net> <19980520110600.B7619@pavilion.net> <35631AF8.BBAC2E86@vailsys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35631AF8.BBAC2E86@vailsys.com>; from Dan Riley on Wed, May 20, 1998 at 01:03:36PM -0500 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Bochs seems to work. It's a 386 emulator, and it's in the ports. > > (It's still installing Win95 at the moment, but it looks good so far.) > > I know that the first time Alex Nash installed Win95 when he was making > the port it took around 3 days for the install to complete. :( It finally installed for me, and it did take around 3 days on a Pentium 200. I installed the USB release of FreeBSD just fine and it even runs Internet Explorer! It is far too slow to be usable though. (And no network layer is emulated so I couldn't browse :) Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager FreeBSD: The power to serve (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 11:23:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18475 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles231.castles.com [208.214.165.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18421 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00949; Sat, 23 May 1998 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805231606.JAA00949@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird behaviour in BootEasy In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 May 1998 22:35:52 +0200." <19980522223552.03137@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:06:36 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I just switched my system to use a different bootdrive (a DPT RAID > array, actually) than I had before, and got the following behaviour: > > On a standard boot, BootEasy won't go to BSD, displaying 'F?' when I > select the BSD partiton. This typically means that the disk geometry is messed up, ie. the geometry used when constructing the disk layout is different to the geometry that the BIOS is using when BootEasy attempts to load the MBR. > However, if I select F5 for booting to > another drive (even though I don't have another bootable drive), then > reboot, and _then_ press F2 when booteasy appears, it boots and works > fine. Sounds like the DPT is playing games changing its reported geometry based on what's on the drive. The fact that F5 appears indicates that it's reporting more than one BIOS disk, which suggests that there's some ugly stuff going on. > Let me repeat the exact steps to get it to work: > 1. Boot until I reach booteasy > 2. Press F5 > 3. Reboot What happens when you press F5, before rebooting? > 4. Continue until I reach booteasy > 5. Press F2 > 6. Boot normally from the FreeBSD bootblocks. > > If I reboot after this, I again get the F? when it tries to > auto-select the BSD partition (or if I press F2 without having pressed > F5 first). The FreeBSD driver probably nukes some state in the DPT that tells it that it's changed its mind about the geometry. > The BIOS and FreeBSD mostly agrees on disk layout - the BIOS believes > there to be 1024 cylinders, not 1954 as below. Many BIOSsen won't accept > 1024. And many adapters refuse to report > 1024 for that reason. > Any clues? Or should I just re-install BootEasy and see if it goes > away? (It seems like such an interesting little problem... :-) Reinstalling BootEasy won't change anything - it contains no geometry state at all. The situation basically results from you having moved the disk from one controller with one BIOS translation to another. The fact that the DPT learns the disk geometry and lets you boot at all is an added bonus; normally you wouldn't be able to do that. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 13:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28306 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28272; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21323; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021310; Sat May 23 13:38:28 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12442; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:38:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805232038.NAA12442@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:38:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jas@flyingfox.com, mark@vmunix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at May 23, 98 01:48:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > C) if you get CLOSE-WAIT, then goto (A). > > I'm a little unclear as to what exactly what should happen when > a TCP stack receives a packet when it is in CLOSE-WAIT state. Are > you relying on the following bahaviour documented in STD7, line ~2358? Yes. I should have said "if you think the client should be sending you the packet it should when it goes to CLOSE-WAIT state, but you aren't getting that packet" to be technically correct. > 3. If the connection is in a synchronized state (ESTABLISHED, > FIN-WAIT-1, FIN-WAIT-2, CLOSE-WAIT, CLOSING, LAST-ACK, TIME-WAIT), > any unacceptable segment (out of window sequence number or > unacceptible acknowledgment number) must elicit only an empty > acknowledgment segment containing the current send-sequence number > and an acknowledgment indicating the next sequence number expected > to be received, and the connection remains in the same state. > > > D) if you get no response in 2 MSL, or RST, then act as if > > you had recieved the CLOSE-WAIT, transitioned to FIN-WAIT-2, > > and subsequently recieved the LAST-ACK. > > Uh-huh. > > > E) (potential "enhancement") If you get no response, rather > > than treating it as an RST, goto (A), but maintain the > > FIN_WAIT_2_TIMEOUT kludge currently in place. > > Can I suggest that if you receive a response after step C, which you call > the CLOSE-WAIT response, then the TCP stack should remain in FIN-WAIT-2 > with an infinite timeout, because the response indicates that the remote > TCP stack not broken and moreover that the remote client is not finished > sending yet. (i.e. the 11 minute timeout you mention later would not > be used) You can't do this. You must constantly ask the client "Are you done yet? Are you done yet?" because you have no other method of distinguishing a broken client from a non-broken client. This sucks, but effectively, you have several problems that are intractable if you do this: 1) The Microsoft TCP stack client that isn't done the first time you ask it, but gets done later, and never calls shutdown like it should. 2) A client machine that is disconnected from the net because it has been shut off, rebooted, or physically disconnected (mobile, dialup, whatever). These will result in the same failure you are trying to avoid, and you've just killed the avoidance behaviour. I understand why you would want to suggest this: it narrows the non-compliance window considerably. As a practical consideration, I expect FreeBSD to ship a technically compliant configuration by default (like it does with the RFC's whose option negotiation breaks peoples hardware), and then have practically everyone in the known universe running FreeBSD turn on the workaround for the Microsoft brain damage. > > Of of the main pains-in-the-ass in not calling "shutdown()" is > > Netscape, BTW. > > Well, the Windows TCP/IP stack should be sending the FIN when the > socket is closed. Well, the Windows TCP/IP stack doesn't know that the socket is closed, because it's implemented un user space, does not use a resource tracked object (a WinSock socket is *not* a file descriptor), and basically *can't* do the right thing most of the time. It *could* do the right thing on explicit close (ie: imply a shutdown) or on program exit, but doesn't. And you can dictate standards to Microsoft until you are blue in the face, and it won't help. I could easily see this as being intentional as a denial of service attack to make non-NT server machines look bad. I could also see it as being a known bug that they are refusing to fix because it points out a deficiency in TCP with mobile and transiently running machines. In most cases, you won't get any response, instead of an RST, since the RST won't occur if there are zero WinSock applications running, since there is no code to field the packet and decide it's bogus loaded at all. > > 11 mintues is too long a time compared to 6 MSL. By sending a > > "duplicate packet" to test the lividity of the client, you can > > solicit a "keepalive" (or an RST). If you get the RST, then you > > recover from the client error. > > And otherwise wait indefinately for the FIN? Yes; if the client is alive, and not sending back zero sized window responses. > I think that this is a bug Microsoft would be eager to fix, after all, > if it affects FreeBSD web servers it also affects NT web servers, as > well as NT file servers, Exchange servers etc etc. I think you are wrong. Microsoft implements the "fix" I have stated, and is not affected by the problem. The "problem" would be that Microsoft clients cause UNIX servers to behave badly, but NT servers are unaffected. I would think that this would be a problem Microsoft would be eager to exacerbate in order to make UNIX servers look less viable than NT servers. > Has anyone yet > verified that this is indeed the observed behaviour with NT with all > applied patches? If so perhaps we should try and convince Microsoft to > fix the problem first. Although having said that, Terry's algorithm > does have the nice side effect of allowing us to remove the 11 minute > non-conformant FIN-WAIT-2 drop. I would keep it in there to prevent zero window size response based denial of service attacks on UNIX servers (enhancement "E"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 13:49:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29697 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29672 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22880; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022867; Sat May 23 13:49:07 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12898; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:49:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199805232049.NAA12898@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: tcp states and sysctl's To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:49:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at May 22, 98 09:27:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think a shutdown(2) sysctl is necessary. > > a) the BSD stack is currently compliant in this regard, if > anything need's changing it's the client. > > b) no-one has produced any evidence to show that all > these sockets in TIME_WAIT_2 are actully having a > negative impact in performance on the system. Actually, > I would seriously hope not, because otherwise this > is a relatively easy DoS. (Though probably not as > effective as a SYN flood.) > > If you do decide to put in a sysctl bear in mind that rsh uses > shutdown(2) to close down one end of a socket so you don't want > the timeout to be too short. Actually, there is a bug in zero-window probing. This occurs when talking to an HP Laserwriter. Basically, the FreeBSD box closes the connection, and can't send a FIN because the printer announces a zero window. A mechanism for converting a shutdown 1 to a shutdown 2 would be useful here. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 17:44:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:44:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [205.162.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27329 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA12561; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199805240017.RAA12561@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: jas@flyingfox.com, njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk Sat May 23 05:53:26 1998 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:52:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jim Shankland "Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2..." (May 22, 5:25pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Jim Shankland , tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) wrote: > On May 22, 5:25pm, Jim Shankland wrote: > } Subject: Re: TIME_WAIT/FIN_WAIT_2... > > > btw, whoever it was who said, "Don't do this because rsh uses > > half-open connections" -- you missed a key point. None of this > > applies if the application process still has the socket open. > > This only applies when the application has entirely closed the > > socket, so there's nobody there to receive any data that might > > arrive. > > That was me. I don't believe what you are saying is correct. > A process can place a socket in TIME_WAIT_2 by issuing a > shutdown(fd, 1) while continuing to read from it. You mean FIN_WAIT_2, and you're right as far as you go, of course; but you're missing the point. None of these timeouts/probes/etc. apply if the end in FIN_WAIT_2 still has its socket open for reading. In that case, there is no timeout (other than normal retransmit timeouts, keepalive if it's on, etc.). We're only dealing with the case where the connection is in FIN_WAIT_2, *and the socket has been entirely closed*. Just being in FIN_WAIT_2, with the socket still open for reading, is a perfectly reasonable state that can persist indefinitely. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 17:47:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27617 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:46:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12821; Sun, 24 May 1998 00:45:43 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA13388; Sun, 24 May 1998 02:45:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980524024533.60246@follo.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:45:33 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird behaviour in BootEasy References: <19980522223552.03137@follo.net> <199805231606.JAA00949@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199805231606.JAA00949@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sat, May 23, 1998 at 09:06:36AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 09:06:36AM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > I just switched my system to use a different bootdrive (a DPT RAID > > array, actually) than I had before, and got the following behaviour: > > > > On a standard boot, BootEasy won't go to BSD, displaying 'F?' when I > > select the BSD partiton. > > This typically means that the disk geometry is messed up, ie. the > geometry used when constructing the disk layout is different to the > geometry that the BIOS is using when BootEasy attempts to load the MBR. I know. However, it doesn't look like that's happening (though I haven't really debugged this yet, so it might well be it.) > > However, if I select F5 for booting to > > another drive (even though I don't have another bootable drive), then > > reboot, and _then_ press F2 when booteasy appears, it boots and works > > fine. > > Sounds like the DPT is playing games changing its reported geometry > based on what's on the drive. The fact that F5 appears indicates that > it's reporting more than one BIOS disk, which suggests that there's > some ugly stuff going on. F5 doesn't appear. Originally, I had another bootable disk as the first disk on an Adaptec in the machine. F5 didn't appear, but when I pressed it I got the other bootblock. This no longer happen - I get 'F?' when I press F5. Then I reboot, and F1/F2 appears again, with F5 as default. If I press F5 here, it boot correctly. > > 4. Continue until I reach booteasy > > 5. Press F2 > > 6. Boot normally from the FreeBSD bootblocks. > > > > If I reboot after this, I again get the F? when it tries to > > auto-select the BSD partition (or if I press F2 without having pressed > > F5 first). > > The FreeBSD driver probably nukes some state in the DPT that tells it > that it's changed its mind about the geometry. That's possible; I don't know the details of how the DPT handles this. > > Any clues? Or should I just re-install BootEasy and see if it goes > > away? (It seems like such an interesting little problem... :-) > > Reinstalling BootEasy won't change anything - it contains no geometry > state at all. The situation basically results from you having moved > the disk from one controller with one BIOS translation to another. The > fact that the DPT learns the disk geometry and lets you boot at all is > an added bonus; normally you wouldn't be able to do that. I have _NOT_ moved the disk from one controller to another. I have re-built the partitions on the same drive, not changing the geometry at all. Everywhere that report geometry report the same. I was thinking it might be an old version of BootEasy, and that a new version might handle this differently. I don't think it is more than 6 months old (and I can't remember any changes in BootEasy in that time), but I didn't originally install the disk, so I don't really know. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 17:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from crimson.protovision (root@p142-02.ppp.get2net.dk [195.82.206.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29639 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stjerneby@usa.net) Received: from usa.net (bwulf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crimson.protovision (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00335 for ; Sun, 24 May 1998 02:54:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stjerneby@usa.net) Message-ID: <35676FBF.9DF8E163@usa.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:54:23 +0200 From: Sune Stjerneby Reply-To: "stjerneby@usa.net" Organization: Organised, me? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) References: <13072.895601583@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > "Imagine that Cray computer decides to make a personal computer. It has > > a 150 MHz processor, 200 megabytes of RAM, 1500 megabytes of disk > > storage, a screen resolution of 4096 x 4096 pixels, relies entirely on > > voice recognition for input, fits in your shirt pocket and costs $300. > > What's the first question that the computer community asks? > > > > "'Is it PC compatible?'" > > No, that's the second question. The first question would be "where > can I get one of these?" :-) Ah, these specs remind me of paragraph from a paper of the MIT Athena project I've got lying around. Basically it reads: ** 4. Hardware The typical Athena workstation is roughly a ''3M'' machine; that is; it has a 1 million-instructions-per-second processor, a megapixel (1000 x 1000) display, and three or four megabytes of memory. It also has a mouse, a local disk (typically 30-70 megabytes), and an Ethernet network interface. (..) ** This was around ~1988. Again, there's some dimension-twisting here. A fairly decent graphics display, and networking, yet fairly low on disk- and memory resources compared to current hardware. The actual hardware consisted of MicroVAXen and VAXstations. Another fascinating fact - MIT has setup HINFO entries in the DNS for virtually every box on campus. Great for statistics (plenty of NetBSD boxen). -- //bwulf - Sune Stjerneby , [2:238/260.4], ++45 56219988, DK-208, EU -- "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur." -- "4.4BSD UNIX - A Real Operating System for Real Users." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 17:56:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00481 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from crimson.protovision (root@p142-02.ppp.get2net.dk [195.82.206.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29986 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 17:55:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stjerneby@usa.net) Received: from usa.net (bwulf@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crimson.protovision (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00344; Sun, 24 May 1998 02:55:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stjerneby@usa.net) Message-ID: <35675A35.EA27C020@usa.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:22:29 +0200 From: Sune Stjerneby Reply-To: stjerneby@usa.net Organization: Organised, me? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Pielorz CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) References: <3562A574.CE34E6EA@tdx.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Pielorz wrote: > > Is it me or is basically everyone here either a) Not a big fan of Intel > (strange considering what FreeBSD runs on ;-) Certainly. I for one have never been a fan of Intel, and wouldn't be running x86 if there wasn't a decent BSD implementation available (luckily there are 5-6 =). > b) Prefers the Motorola? (I certainly do!), and / or c) Largely used to own, > program, hack on Amiga's? - or at least want FreeBSD to work as well as the > Amiga did Certainly. It has been said, that had the original IBM PC design used the MC68000 (which was available at that time), the world would look very different by now. It will be a cold day in hell before i scrap my m68k-machines (Amigas etc., which all run NetBSD). > All way off topic but interesting following - maybe we should start > 'nostalgia-freebsd' mailing list? Folklore and nostalgia is usually enjoyable. -- //bwulf - Sune Stjerneby , [2:238/260.4], ++45 56219988, DK-208, EU -- "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur." -- "4.4BSD UNIX - A Real Operating System for Real Users." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 21:33:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06297 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles167.castles.com [208.214.165.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06248 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03741; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805240328.UAA03741@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcp states and sysctl's In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 May 1998 20:49:06 -0000." <199805232049.NAA12898@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:28:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 21:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07603 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles167.castles.com [208.214.165.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07598 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03808; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805240338.UAA03808@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "stjerneby@usa.net" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: talk (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 May 1998 02:54:23 +0200." <35676FBF.9DF8E163@usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:38:37 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The typical Athena workstation is roughly a ''3M'' machine; that is; it > has a 1 million-instructions-per-second processor, a megapixel (1000 x > 1000) display, and three or four megabytes of memory. It also has a > mouse, a local disk (typically 30-70 megabytes), and an Ethernet network > interface. > (..) > ** > > This was around ~1988. > > Again, there's some dimension-twisting here. A fairly decent graphics > display, and networking, yet fairly low on disk- and memory resources > compared to current hardware. The actual hardware consisted of > MicroVAXen and VAXstations. Anyone who would call a DEQNA "fairly decent networking" has rocks in their head. There's a lovely quote from Van Jacobsen about using a DEQNA as a slow packet source... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 23 21:56:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08705 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (castles167.castles.com [208.214.165.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08698 for ; Sat, 23 May 1998 21:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03922; Sat, 23 May 1998 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805240352.UAA03922@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird behaviour in BootEasy In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 May 1998 02:45:33 +0200." <19980524024533.60246@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:52:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 09:06:36AM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > I just switched my system to use a different bootdrive (a DPT RAID > > > array, actually) than I had before, and got the following behaviour: > > > > > > On a standard boot, BootEasy won't go to BSD, displaying 'F?' when I > > > select the BSD partiton. > > > > This typically means that the disk geometry is messed up, ie. the > > geometry used when constructing the disk layout is different to the > > geometry that the BIOS is using when BootEasy attempts to load the MBR. > > I know. However, it doesn't look like that's happening (though I > haven't really debugged this yet, so it might well be it.) It does look like it's happening. 8) > > > However, if I select F5 for booting to > > > another drive (even though I don't have another bootable drive), then > > > reboot, and _then_ press F2 when booteasy appears, it boots and works > > > fine. > > > > Sounds like the DPT is playing games changing its reported geometry > > based on what's on the drive. The fact that F5 appears indicates that > > it's reporting more than one BIOS disk, which suggests that there's > > some ugly stuff going on. > > F5 doesn't appear. Originally, I had another bootable disk as the > first disk on an Adaptec in the machine. F5 didn't appear, but when I > pressed it I got the other bootblock. This no longer happen - I get > 'F?' when I press F5. Then I reboot, and F1/F2 appears again, with F5 > as default. If I press F5 here, it boot correctly. Try pressing F4 instead, I'd be interested to know if that works too. F5 will appear if you have an odd number of disks in the machine. > > The FreeBSD driver probably nukes some state in the DPT that tells it > > that it's changed its mind about the geometry. > > That's possible; I don't know the details of how the DPT handles this. Neither do I. 8( > > > Any clues? Or should I just re-install BootEasy and see if it goes > > > away? (It seems like such an interesting little problem... :-) > > > > Reinstalling BootEasy won't change anything - it contains no geometry > > state at all. The situation basically results from you having moved > > the disk from one controller with one BIOS translation to another. The > > fact that the DPT learns the disk geometry and lets you boot at all is > > an added bonus; normally you wouldn't be able to do that. > > I have _NOT_ moved the disk from one controller to another. I have > re-built the partitions on the same drive, not changing the geometry > at all. Everywhere that report geometry report the same. The whole point I am making is that the first-guess at the geometry is *wrong*, and it's not 'till the DPT changes its mind to match what the disk is set for that everything works. Prior to this point, things are disjoint but you can only tell that because BootEasy doesn't work. Subsequently, things are in sync, so of course everything claims to be happy. > I was thinking it might be an old version of BootEasy, and that a new > version might handle this differently. I don't think it is more than > 6 months old (and I can't remember any changes in BootEasy in that > time), but I didn't originally install the disk, so I don't really > know. The version of BootEasy used by FreeBSD hasn't changed in many years. You might try a newer OS-BS or System Commander, as these are much smarter. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message